Are You Thinking Of Buying A Gun Due To Current Events?

[imayid2]

Is this true?l

No

[Definitions2]

All I did was copy paste the Ramban at the beginning of this week's parsha

That I know. But I'm assuming you were trying to make a point. At first I thought you were saying a gun shouldn't be bought since running away is the preferred method to prepare for war. Then I looked up the next part and saw it says he hid weapons under their clothes. So I wasn't sure.

[yelped]

So, which one and how?

I can probably get Hungarian and Austrian citizenship. My wife and kids have Swiss citizenship (no passport, though). I would have to go through a simplified process to become a citizen, but I qualify. It would take probably around a thousand dollars and an interview to make sure I know the history, culture, and a working knowledge/communication ability in one of the 4 national languages. As a Yiddish speaking person, Swiss Dutch would be the easiest.

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As long that someone is thinking. When he lives in his illusional bubble, both about the present and about the past, you just ignore if you can't help. It's a waste of time and below the dignity of the rabbonim to stand up for their kavod in such a case, and a waste of energy to become frustrated. 

Warsaw Gehtto, how did that uprising work out. If only those fanatic Rabbonim would tell us to flee, or own a gun, we would destroy the Vhermacht with our pistols in minutes.

And usually you hear this panicked argument that this country is Germany in the 1930's from the same morons who proceed to make their point that moving to the country where 3 people were shot dead yesterday is the only solution.

The same argument against owning guns as a means to prevent tyranny "you can't use a gun against tanks and planes and nukes"

As can be seen in Ukraine, generally speaking to occupy its people on the ground and guns are effective resistance

On Oct 7, the possession of guns could have saved many lives beyond the number of actual guns owned.

Would guns have saved Jews in Europe ? History has shown that guerilla resistance is very effective just look at Vietnam and Afghanistan

If only 100,000 out of 5 million Jewish adults in Europe had guns.. I can see the Holocaust having been prevented

Even the knowledge of using guns would have been effective

Here in Florida with the castle doctorine and stand your ground laws, I see things much differently.

Would we see a split in the union in 25 years ? Who knows. But right now at least, I advocate for gun ownership

I do believe people should go shooting, get training regardless of owning a gun. But let's not be naive

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Btw there were stories Oct 7 of a single person killing 5+ terrorists. When you do the math, God forbid 1 terrorist could have killed 20+ and these are all numbers that reflect gun ownership and use

People were killed in friendly fire in Israel but I doubt it was beyond 1% of those systematically murdered

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Finally, constitutional carry in Florida means everyone can carry concealed. Not sure I love it, but I have yet to encounter any wild West episodes.

[aygart]

Btw there were stories Oct 7 of a single person killing 5+ terrorists. When you do the math, God forbid 1 terrorist could have killed 20+ and these are all numbers that reflect gun ownership and use

People were killed in friendly fire in Israel but I doubt it was beyond 1% of those systematically murdered

IINM the vast majority of adult Israelis are trained in the combat use of firearms.

[aygart]

That I know. But I'm assuming you were trying to make a point. At first I thought you were saying a gun shouldn't be bought since running away is the preferred method to prepare for war. Then I looked up the next part and saw it says he hid weapons under their clothes. So I wasn't sure.

He prepared for milchama but for the purpose of לברוח ולהנצל

[AJK]

With all due kavod l'torah, it appears some rabbanim are having the same issue as one rabbi had with the rally. Specifically, in that case, as I understand it, the main objections that formed the basis of it being prohibited were (i) a pastor speaking at the rally, and (ii) hatikvah being sung.

Was a single yeshiva bochur going to leave the rally, throw his black hat off, cross himself, and then run to buy the biography of Ben Gurion? I think not. That concern, BH, is as abstract as it is anachronistic, and fortunately, as far as the bnei yeshiva are concerned, it has been relegated to the dustbin of history.

Similar to the objection to the rally -- where it appears certain rabbanim may be trapped in the past and utterly unaware of the true battles of the present which need to be fought -- it seems that other rabbanim are also tragically unaware of current state of affairs when it comes to owning a weapon.

Take as a recent, if not perfect, example of what happened yesterday in Yerushalayim. Two Israelis with guns eliminated two evil murderers. Now I'll readily admit that (i) it was Israel, and not America, where the Rabbanim conceded it may be allowed, but America has become much more dangerous place than I think either of them recognize, and (ii) an innocent person with a gun was killed by friendly fire.

But can anyone seriously contend that had they not had those weapons, the casualties would have not been five, ten, or even twenty times worse what they were?

No one is (or at least should be) suggesting that everyone with a social security number and a heartbeat should be carrying a weapon -- into shul or otherwise. Everyone should have minimum required training to own a gun and for those who wish to carry inside of shul, where there could be 100s of protectees flitting about, the training should be 50x more. And I know where I live that is the case.

To dismiss with a broad stroke the entire notion of owning a gun because of a personal anecdote demonstrating that guns are dangerous lacks nuance and, I believe, an understanding of facts on the ground.

[imayid2]

With all due kavod l'torah, it appears some rabbanim are having the same issue as one rabbi had with the rally. Specifically, in that case, as I understand it, the main objections that formed the basis of it being prohibited were (i) a pastor speaking at the rally, and (ii) hatikvah being sung.

Was a single yeshiva bochur going to leave the rally, throw his black hat off, cross himself, and then run to buy the biography of Ben Gurion? I think not. That concern, BH, is as abstract as it is anachronistic, and fortunately, as far as the bnei yeshiva are concerned, it has been relegated to the dustbin of history.

Similar to the objection to the rally -- where it appears certain rabbanim may be trapped in the past and utterly unaware of the true battles of the present which need to be fought -- it seems that other rabbanim are also tragically unaware of current state of affairs when it comes to owning a weapon.

Take as a recent, if not perfect, example of what happened yesterday in Yerushalayim. Two Israelis with guns eliminated two evil murderers. Now I'll readily admit that (i) it was Israel, and not America, where the Rabbanim conceded it may be allowed, but America has become much more dangerous place than I think either of them recognize, and (ii) an innocent person with a gun was killed by friendly fire.

But can anyone seriously contend that had they not had those weapons, the casualties could have been ten times what they were?

No one is (or at least should be) suggesting that everyone with a social security number and a heartbeat should be carrying a weapon -- into shul or otherwise. Everyone should have minimum required training to own a gun and for those who wish to carry inside of shul, where there could be 100s of protectees, the training should be 50x more. And I know where I live that is the case.

To dismiss with a broad stroke the entire notion of owning a gun because of a personal anecdote demonstrating that guns are dangerous lacks nuance and I believe understanding of facts on the ground.

Didn’t they say that the assessment should be made by security professionals?

[chevron]

With all due kavod l'torah, it appears some rabbanim are having the same issue as one rabbi had with the rally. Specifically, in that case, as I understand it, the main objections that formed the basis of it being prohibited were (i) a pastor speaking at the rally, and (ii) hatikvah being sung.

Was a single yeshiva bochur going to leave the rally, throw his black hat off, cross himself, and then run to buy the biography of Ben Gurion? I think not. That concern, BH, is as abstract as it is anachronistic, and fortunately, as far as the bnei yeshiva are concerned, it has been relegated to the dustbin of history.

Similar to the objection to the rally -- where it appears certain rabbanim may be trapped in the past and utterly unaware of the true battles of the present which need to be fought -- it seems that other rabbanim are also tragically unaware of current state of affairs when it comes to owning a weapon.

Take as a recent, if not perfect, example of what happened yesterday in Yerushalayim. Two Israelis with guns eliminated two evil murderers. Now I'll readily admit that (i) it was Israel, and not America, where the Rabbanim conceded it may be allowed, but America has become much more dangerous place than I think either of them recognize, and (ii) an innocent person with a gun was killed by friendly fire.

But can anyone seriously contend that had they not had those weapons, the casualties would have not been five, ten, or even twenty times worse what they were?

No one is (or at least should be) suggesting that everyone with a social security number and a heartbeat should be carrying a weapon -- into shul or otherwise. Everyone should have minimum required training to own a gun and for those who wish to carry inside of shul, where there could be 100s of protectees flitting about, the training should be 50x more. And I know where I live that is the case.

To dismiss with a broad stroke the entire notion of owning a gun because of a personal anecdote demonstrating that guns are dangerous lacks nuance and, I believe, an understanding of facts on the ground.

This.

In many many instances you had terror attacks continuing till it armed civilian or bystander acted.

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IINM the vast majority of adult Israelis are trained in the combat use of firearms.

I think combat use is not really a favor. Proficiency in small arms and being a decent shot.

The thing about terror attacks is, it's not really possible to predict anything.

There was a terrorist killing people with a bulldozer till he was shot dead etc

[Dan]

I can probably get Hungarian and Austrian citizenship. My wife and kids have Swiss citizenship (no passport, though). I would have to go through a simplified process to become a citizen, but I qualify. It would take probably around a thousand dollars and an interview to make sure I know the history, culture, and a working knowledge/communication ability in one of the 4 national languages. As a Yiddish speaking person, Swiss Dutch would be the easiest.

Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

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The guy who designed the fence for Gaza says "the fence wasn't designed for Oct 7"

What lunacy, it's not a couch or a bicycle, you design a security fence for the worst possible scenario

But also it really just highlights how people who mock security precautions saying "that will never happen" etc

[UKinNYS]

look into citizenship by Investment, I know a few ppl who did it for tax reasons..

https://www.goldenvisas.com/country

Caribbean are particularly popular if you want to domicile offshore but be close to the US.

So, which one and how?

[yelped]

Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

Would have to make time to pursue it.

[imayid2]

If anyones grandparents were Polish citizens before the war I think you can get Polish Citizenship.

[Dan]

If anyones grandparents were Polish citizens before the war I think you can get Polish Citizenship.

Alas, all 4 of mine, may they live and be well until 120, were born in CLE.

[imayid2]

He's not the only one who said it. A bigger issue was that there was no where and no way to go.

He was referring to the discouraging of Jews from immigrating to (then) Palestine and the US throughout the 30s. I don’t know if it was easy then but it was definitely possible and many did so.

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What scares me most is the direction of liberal Jews, it's like they are as big of anti semites as the goyim