Kosher, Kashrus and Hechsherim Master thread

[moko]

Is KLBD really in the same category as the two K's you mentioned?

no and triangle k isn't tablet k

[avromie7]

It is not clear at all that עד אחד נאמן applies If the difference is that they are relying on a more lenient opinion. We are fully trusting them that the item complies with that opinion.

If you walk into someone's house and they give you food, you don't need to start questioning them about where it came from, etc. If they tell you BTW this tuna is Starkist (and you don't eat OU tuna) you can no longer eat it. The same applies with a kashrus organization, if they tell you it's kosher you can trust them, but if they tell you this is our policy and you know it's an opinion you don't follow you can no longer rely on them for that.

[Yehuda57]

If you walk into someone's house and they give you food, you don't need to start questioning them about where it came from, etc. If they tell you BTW this tuna is Starkist (and you don't eat OU tuna) you can no longer eat it. The same applies with a kashrus organization, if they tell you it's kosher you can trust them, but if they tell you this is our policy and you know it's an opinion you don't follow you can no longer rely on them for that.

What if you walk into someone's house and you go into the kitchen to wash your hands and see Starkist tuna and you say, "Oh, you eat OU tuna?" To which they answer, "why not?" Can you still eat everything else in their house aside from the tuna?

[imayid2]

no and triangle k isn't tablet k

And the תולעים policy of a national generally accepted organization isn’t necessarily  the same as another.

[moko]

And the תולעים policy of a national generally accepted organization isn’t necessarily  the same as another.

+100

[aygart]

If you walk into someone's house and they give you food, you don't need to start questioning them about where it came from, etc. If they tell you BTW this tuna is Starkist (and you don't eat OU tuna) you can no longer eat it. The same applies with a kashrus organization, if they tell you it's kosher you can trust them, but if they tell you this is our policy and you know it's an opinion you don't follow you can no longer rely on them for that.

Great, but now someone told you. Also that there may not be an obligation to research each ruling that is not a question of neemanus

[avromie7]

What if you walk into someone's house and you go into the kitchen to wash your hands and see Starkist tuna and you say, "Oh, you eat OU tuna?" To which they answer, "why not?" Can you still eat everything else in their house aside from the tuna?

Yes. They don't lose ne'emanus because they follow a more lenient opinion.

[imayid2]

Great, but now someone told you.

את חטאי אני מזכיר היום

[thaber]

Is KLBD really in the same category as the two K's you mentioned?

no and triangle k isn't tablet k

Was only equating the three in the sense of non mainstream policies (vegetables, cheese and non glatt specifically)

[avromie7]

Great, but now someone told you. Also that there may not be an obligation to research each ruling that is not a question of neemanus

That's why I don't eat OU tuna.

את חטאי אני מזכיר היום

What did you tell me?

[Yehuda57]

Yes. They don't lose ne'emanus because they follow a more lenient opinion.

I'm sorry if this was addressed but I haven't followed this conversation too closely. What does neemanus have to do with heterim/shitos you don't follow? The guy can have all the neemanus in the world, but if he's not even aware of the issues with OU tuna, wouldn't that call into question whether he follows the rest of the standards you hold?

[thaber]

And the תולעים policy of a national generally accepted organization isn’t necessarily  the same as another.

Maskim. Calling national hechsheirim woefully inept (your words) is my only disagreement here, I don't think it is the correct way to talk about the many chashuva rabbonim behind them. That's the point in trying to convey, and I'm sure we agree on it.

[avromie7]

I'm sorry if this was addressed but I haven't followed this conversation too closely. What does neemanus have to do with heterim/shitos you don't follow? The guy can have all the neemanus in the world, but if he's not even aware of the issues with OU tuna, wouldn't that call into question whether he follows the rest of the standards you hold?

If they tell you the food is kosher, the halacha is they have ne'emanus and you can believe them. You don't need to start questioning which shitos they follow. If you become aware that something they serve is not up to your standard, you believe them and can no longer eat that item.

[imayid2]

Citation?

מסכת עבודה זרה לט ע״ב

[aygart]

If they tell you the food is kosher, the halacha is they have ne'emanus and you can believe them. You don't need to start questioning which shitos they follow. If you become aware that something they serve is not up to your standard, you believe them and can no longer eat that item.

Source that this goes to the extent you are taking it?

[Yehuda57]

If they tell you the food is kosher, the halacha is they have ne'emanus and you can believe them. You don't need to start questioning which shitos they follow. If you become aware that something they serve is not up to your standard, you believe them and can no longer eat that item.

With due respect, this makes no sense to me, and it would behoove you to provide a source. I grew up on shlichus, and I can all but guarantee that you would not eat in someone's house in the area I grew up in, even if the person assured you the home was kosher. You would know that despite their best intentions, they simply aren't aware of the extensive halachos involved in keeping kashrus even close to your standards. My father had a strict "I don't eat in anyone's house" policy, which he still keeps to even though he lives in a frum neighborhood now, and it insults many people. But often the people most offended are the very people the policy is in place for. They believe they are keeping kashrus to the highest standards, but are simply ignorant about many aspects of kashrus. When someone shows you they don't even know that there is a question about tuna, and this is a major problem for you, I fail to see how neemanus solves the problem of them keeping standards that are well below par for you.

[yelped]

Aren't we missing the Shach in Yoreh Deah who speaks about this?

[thaber]

It's worth going through the teshuva in Igros Moshe.

[aygart]

מסכת עבודה זרה לט ע״ב

As I thought. This is totally unrelated to the subject at hand discussing the neemanus of the Rav Hamachshir.

[avromie7]

Source that this goes to the extent you are taking it?

With due respect, this makes no sense to me, and it would behoove you to provide a source. I grew up on shlichus, and I can all but guarantee that you would not eat in someone's house in the area I grew up in, even if the person assured you the home was kosher. You would know that despite their best intentions, they simply aren't aware of the extensive halachos involved in keeping kashrus even close to your standards. My father had a strict "I don't eat in anyone's house" policy, which he still keeps to even though he lives in a frum neighborhood now, and it insults many people. But often the people most offended are the very people the policy is in place for. They believe they are keeping kashrus to the highest standards, but are simply ignorant about many aspects of kashrus. When someone shows you they don't even know that there is a question about tuna, and this is a major problem for you, I fail to see how neemanus solves the problem of them keeping standards that are well below par for you.

Look upthread at what I posted from R' Reuven Feinstein. He doesn't say you need to clarify that the hechsher is up to your standard, he says if 1 eid tells you it's kosher he has ne'emanus. You can also look at the sources referenced in the footnotes, I didn't look at them today, but IIRC they should answer your question.