Masks

[biobook]

Do we have data that children wearing masks in schools help? I don't mean general data about masks. Because if they are playing with their masks, sharing them, leaving them around... could that be counteracting the benefits?

I am asking honestly, not saying that I know the answer to this.

Yes.  Not at a granular level, where someone counted actual transmission from Jane to Johnny in the classroom, but at a general level, where fewer cases occurred in neighboring schools or counties with and without mask mandates. 

[aygart]

I'm out of FL for the first time since this started, and I've yet to be in a single situation where I felt personal space wasn't given (outside of the frum areas). Masks may be looked at a little funny by some in the Mid-Atlantic, but with less hostility. Just personal observations... maybe I haven't been out enough to get the full picture yet.

While I found that COVID is mostly forgotten about almost anywhere I've gone other than isolated holdouts. The vast majority of those concerned have gotten vaccinated anyhow. A vaccinated person telling another vaccinated person to keep distance seems somewhat ridiculous. While a vaccinated person telling someone unvaccinated to keep distance has a bit more reason, it still seems mostly overboard. Someone who is unvaccinated is his own problem other than isolated cases. Of course these are all feelings which don't care about your facts, but my experience is that this is the prevailing attitude even in some of the stricter areas.

[aygart]

Yes.  Not at a granular level, where someone counted actual transmission from Jane to Johnny in the classroom, but at a general level, where fewer cases occurred in neighboring schools or counties with and without mask mandates. 

There was certainly rampant spread in Lakewood schools without masks tishrei time.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Why stop with the covid vaccine, let’s mandate the flu shot

Not sure where you are from, but NY already mandates the flu shot for all children( plus many more shots not sure the whole list)

[Euclid]

There was certainly rampant spread in Lakewood schools without masks tishrei time.

EDIT: Based on current trends in Lakewood, I'm concerned about the upcoming tishrei too. Let's daven that there won't be.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Al tiftach peh

[aygart]

<sigh> What seems strange?  That I don't want to derail? Or that I said FL learned from NY? 
My memory is definitely NOT that the earliest cases occurred in FL, but that the NY patient zero had been in FL for Shabbos before diagnosis, but most early cases were related to him and his family in NY and to the AIPAC convention. 

See from here

Don't worry about visiting Florida! People in Florida are immune to Coronavirus, as long as censorship is in place.
 
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html

[Euclid]

Al tiftach peh

True, my bad. Will edit

[avromie7]

If it becomes an issue where deaths are more than a few thousand and hospitals are being overrun, it can be a conversation. This is like saying that since we ask for elbows and knees to be covered, we should just go full burqa.

How many deaths are there among vaccinated people? Anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated is their own problem.

[CountValentine]

How many deaths are there among vaccinated people? Anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated is their own problem.

What about the parents that refuse to get their children vaccinated? Who speaks for them?

[avromie7]

If you look back on DDF it becomes pretty clear that DDFers in FL did not agree that DeSantis' policies were wildly successful.  And felt that he was hiding and manipulating the data. 

The overall death rate includes the early weeks in NYC when hospitals were overwhelmed and doctors had no idea what they were doing - not a useful comparison to FL, where cases rose much later. 

The governor didn't "focus on the ones most at risk".  The elderly here isolated themselves, because they couldn't trust the governor to implement safety measures to protect them.

IIRC those claims have been debunked. All the "evidence" came from a disgruntled employee.

[avromie7]

What about the parents that refuse to get their children vaccinated? Who speaks for them?

How many COVID deaths are there among children compared to the flu?

[aygart]

IIRC those claims have been debunked. All the "evidence" came from a disgruntled employee.

Even if they were, it only makes the case stronger not weaker.

[avromie7]

Even if they were, it only makes the case stronger not weaker.

Are you agreeing with me?

[CountValentine]

How many COVID deaths are there among children compared to the flu?

Don't know but that has nothing to do with what I asked.

[avromie7]

Don't know but that has nothing to do with what I asked.

You're clearly not following the conversation.

[aygart]

Are you agreeing with me?

adding.

[CountValentine]

You're clearly not following the conversation.

Sure I am. I am asking who speaks for the children who are put at risk by parents refusing to get them vaccinated. Pretty simple question.

[avromie7]

Sure I am. I am asking who speaks for the children who are put at risk by parents refusing to get them vaccinated. Pretty simple question.

Since we are comparing to the flu, unless the risk to children is greater than the flu your question is moot.

[biobook]

While I found that COVID is mostly forgotten about almost anywhere I've gone

Many have forgotten about covid, but covid hasn't forgotten them. 

Hatzalah of South Florida sent this on Tuesday: 
"We are once again experiencing an extremely high rate of COVID-19 infection within the community along with a significant increase in severely ill patients requiring hospitalizations and R"L deaths as well....  We implore you to please be proactive and responsible by ensuring you and your loved ones are properly vaccinated and to wear face protection where appropriate..."