Dry red wine - best bang for buck?

[Dan]

Had the Alfa, Appellation, and Variations 4.

Alfa – solid, but a bit bitter
Appellation – my favorite, pretty smooth for a mevushal bottle and very rich
Variations 4 – close second, robust flavor and nice oak finish without bitterness

Seems like the Alfa I had in Israel a few weeks ago isn't mevushal and the import version is mevushal.
Time for a taste test

[am7734]

Seems like the Alfa I had in Israel a few weeks ago isn't mevushal and the import version is mevushal.
Time for a taste test

True of many or most of Israeli wines. The ones that are exported become mevushal...

[pointer]

Alexander Sandro and Recanati Reserve cab, are some of the best wines under $30. (depending on the store, some charge a bit over $30)

[aygart]

Seems like the Alfa I had in Israel a few weeks ago isn't mevushal and the import version is mevushal.
Time for a taste test

True of many or most of Israeli wines. The ones that are exported become mevushal...

Some of it may have to do with hechsherim and their policies of what is called mevushal

[pointer]

Signac Cotes Du Rhone Is delightful. Very light body, but nice and fruity. Under $20. Perfect for chugging 4 cups.

(BTW, one of my biggest wine pet peeves is people making kiddush on heavy wines. Seriously, might as well take it via IV. There’s literally no way that you are enjoying that cup)

[avromie7]

Some of it may have to do with hechsherim and their policies of what is called mevushal

Are there any non pasteurized wines available in the US?

[mevinyavin]

Some of it may have to do with hechsherim and their policies of what is called mevushal

My favorite anecdote was when one Rav pointed out that the Bartenura was just as mevushal as the Carmel Moscato, even though the latter said it was not mevushal. Then a few years later, the Carmel started saying 'mevushal al yedei pistur' - I guess Rav Rubin got flak for simply saying it wasn't. In the states, the mashgiach allowed the former but not the latter to be served at a chasunah, and I found it very ironic. (I don't blame the mashgiach, though.)

[avromie7]

My favorite anecdote was when one Rav pointed out that the Bartenura was just as mevushal as the Carmel Moscato, even though the latter said it was not mevushal. Then a few years later, the Carmel started saying 'mevushal al yedei pistur' - I guess Rav Rubin got flak for simply saying it wasn't. In the states, the mashgiach allowed the former but not the latter to be served at a chasunah, and I found it very ironic. (I don't blame the mashgiach, though.)

The rules for what can be served at an event need to be rigid even if not necessary.

OTOH, a friend worked as a mashgiach for shabbos events (bar mitzva, sheva brachos, etc.). He was told one of the hashgachas rules and when he asked the rav hamachshir why it's necessary when a less restrictive rule suffices, he was told since you know the halacha you don't need to follow the rule. I don't remember what it was about, but it was a hilchos shabbos question.

[moko]

The rules for what can be served at an event need to be rigid even if not necessary.

OTOH, a friend worked as a mashgiach for shabbos events (bar mitzva, sheva brachos, etc.). He was told one of the hashgachas rules and when he asked the rav hamachshir why it's necessary when a less restrictive rule suffices, he was told since you know the halacha you don't need to follow the rule. I don't remember what it was about, but it was a hilchos shabbos question.

that's ludicrous for an agency to tell that to a mashgiach no matter how a great s talmid chacham he is.

[Sam Finkelstein]

Seems like the Alfa I had in Israel a few weeks ago isn't mevushal and the import version is mevushal.
Time for a taste test

True of many or most of Israeli wines. The ones that are exported become mevushal...

It's becoming hard to find non-Mevushal Psagot. My favorite winery, but a bit pricey. I don't like Mevushal, but it's sometimes necessary due to guests etc.

[Dan]

It's becoming hard to find non-Mevushal Psagot. My favorite winery, but a bit pricey. I don't like Mevushal, but it's sometimes necessary due to guests etc.

We did a blind taste test between a Psagot non-mev and Psagot Mev. Nearly everyone correctly identified the non-mev. The Mev was significantly harsher.

Seems like Royal requires most American imports to be Mev due to American hechsherim requiring Mev wines at restaurants.

[Just A Jew]

Seems like Royal requires most American imports to be Mev due to American hechsherim requiring Mev wines at restaurants.

I don't find this to be true.

[Dan]

I don't find this to be true.

Which part?

[Sam Finkelstein]

Seems like Royal requires most American imports to be Mev due to American hechsherim requiring Mev wines at restaurants.

Are restaurants really such a large segment of their market? You'd expect there to be enough private connoisseurs to sustain imports of better stuff.

[Sam Finkelstein]

(BTW, one of my biggest wine pet peeves is people making kiddush on heavy wines. Seriously, might as well take it via IV. There’s literally no way that you are enjoying that cup)

Yup, I usually make Kiddush on grape juice and actually enjoy the wine once I have food in my system.

For the Seder, I use a light Moscato or even Concord Kal for the first two cups and the good stuff for the last two.

Though on Yomtov, I try to make Kiddush on a champagne or something and then do a beeline for the Hamotzi (I wash before Kiddush so it's not a very long wait). Second night, I usually have enough food in my system to make Kiddush on regular dry wine.

[Dan]

Are restaurants really such a large segment of their market?

For many wines, yes.

[aygart]

Are restaurants really such a large segment of their market? You'd expect there to be enough private connoisseurs to sustain imports of better stuff.

And caterers and private people bringing to catered events.

[Sam Finkelstein]

I hear, but the local wine stores in places like Lakewood are booming, and most of those people don't have Mevushal issues.

[aygart]

I hear, but the local wine stores in places like Lakewood are booming, and most of those people don't have Mevushal issues.

How much of that is to be served at events with waiters?

[Dan]

I hear, but the local wine stores in places like Lakewood are booming, and most of those people don't have Mevushal issues.

Hashgocha won't allow the same wine label have some mev and some non-mev, so going mev will generally maximize sales, which is why Royal pushes things that way.