Law School

[hvaces42]

Pathetic existence? Bitter much?

Not at all. Its not directed at him. Its a general statement about that type of person.

[henche]

Pensions be good for frum peeps. Because your tuition committee can't take your pension, and by the time you're drawing on it its too late.

Make sure to max out your 401k or IRA before your kids hit school--that money is safe from the tuition vandals.

[hvaces42]

Pensions be good for frum peeps. Because your tuition committee can't take your pension, and by the time you're drawing on it its too late.

Make sure to max out your 401k or IRA before your kids hit school--that money is safe from the tuition vandals.

Pensions are a dyin. They vest later. Retirement age is pushed back. Not as lucrative as they used to be.

[jj1000]

Pathetic existence? Bitter much?

+1 wow that was harsh.

Maybe some people just enjoy spending time with family.

I guess some people feel they are better when they put others down.

That said going to law school to work a $40k a year job seems a waste to me.

[Ergel]

+1 wow that was harsh.

Maybe some people just enjoy spending time with family.

I guess some people feel they are better when they put others down.

That said going to law school to work a $40k a year job seems a waste to me.

+1
I could have gotten into a top flight law school and probably excelled in big law. Instead I chose to become a computer programmer and enjoy my 9:30-5:30 work day. Probably left millions on the table. I guess I live a pathetic existence?

[prelaw]

Lets start with the premise that if youre making 110k your also getting benefits comparable to any govt job. So what savings are you talking about?
As for my neighbor, if you consider a more fulfilled life as one where you take your old lady carriage and go to the supermarket every other day for your small bottle of milk, wake up for the second minyan, do daf yomi in the evening instead of before shachris and spend the rest of your pathetic existence in your high 50s and 60s waiting for the Malach Hamaves then maybe a your million dollar skills are not wasted. Its not the money its the waste of skills and useful resources. There is a mentality amongst government employees...and certain elements of our community to get away with an easy life. Dont work too hard c'v. There is a price to pay for taking a govt job, thats all I'm saying.

My understanding is that government jobs generally have better benefits than do jobs in the private sector. Perhaps law is an exception, but otherwise I would object to  premise.

Further, if any existence is pathetic I would say that would apply to someone whose outlook is that his only value is via his work product, without which he is worthless. Do you plan on retiring ever? Will your existence then be pathetic? Or are you of the belief that retiring at 65, or 75, thus precludes you from being "pathetic," but retiring at 55 renders you undeniably so? Your argument also assumes that after retirement your neighbor doesn't use his skills. Perhaps he volunteers or makes use of his variety of skills via other means.

Also, what of stay at home mothers. Once their kids are independent, are they in your view all discarded to the "pathetic" pile? Or people who are not successful professionally. Also thrown to the pathetic bin?

Live and let live. I very much doubt your neighbor is judging you for the choices you make regarding your professional career.

[AJK]

+1
I could have gotten into a top flight law school and probably excelled in big law. Instead I chose to become a computer programmer and enjoy my 9:30-5:30 work day. Probably left millions on the table. I guess I live a pathetic existence?

<sigh>

[henche]

+1
I could have gotten into a top flight law school and probably excelled in big law. Instead I chose to become a computer programmer and enjoy my 9:30-5:30 work day. Probably left millions on the table. I guess I live a pathetic existence?

pathetic. 

[churnbabychurn]

Lets start with the premise that if youre making 110k your also getting benefits comparable to any govt job. So what savings are you talking about?
As for my neighbor, if you consider a more fulfilled life as one where you take your old lady carriage and go to the supermarket every other day for your small bottle of milk, wake up for the second minyan, do daf yomi in the evening instead of before shachris and spend the rest of your pathetic existence in your high 50s and 60s waiting for the Malach Hamaves then maybe a your million dollar skills are not wasted. Its not the money its the waste of skills and useful resources. There is a mentality amongst government employees...and certain elements of our community to get away with an easy life. Dont work too hard c'v. There is a price to pay for taking a govt job, thats all I'm saying.

Does working as a lawyer add any intrinsic value to anything or anyone??

Your neighbor could potentially learn Torah all day in his fifties and sixties. At least he'll have a few years to show for himself when the malach hamoves does come.

It's all about perspective.

[henche]

Does working as a lawyer add any intrinsic value to anything or anyone??

I think so.  I'm enabling business transactions to move smoothly. 

Organized business transactions have vastly improved human life.

[churnbabychurn]

I think so.  I'm enabling business transactions to move smoothly. 

Organized business transactions have vastly improved human life.

So lawyers improve human life.

(Sounds like a punch line )

[henche]

So lawyers improve human life.

(Sounds like a punch line )

People like to make fun. You want to go back to a barter economy?

[jj1000]

I believe most professions improve human life.

[Ergel]

<sigh>

And an 18 minute commute to boot

[hvaces42]

I was not saying it as a general statement. If you look at this guy his existence is pathetic. Its not family time he's busy with. It is a mentality of most local government employees. When a cop has a license plate that says 20ANDOUT...meaning he will put in his 20 years and then file for his pension its a mentality. Hes not a law enforcement hero. Hes a stiff making widgets until its time to atop making widgets. Government lawyers in NY for the most part (ADAs that become criminal defense attorneys are the exception) are widget making stiffs who put in their years and then retire without any drive or motivation to grow professionally. That is my definition of a pathetic existence.
Let the games begin...

[thaber]

I was not saying it as a general statement. If you look at this guy his existence is pathetic. Its not family time he's busy with. It is a mentality of most local government employees. When a cop has a license plate that says 20ANDOUT...meaning he will put in his 20 years and then file for his pension its a mentality. Hes not a law enforcement hero. Hes a stiff making widgets until its time to atop making widgets. Government lawyers in NY for the most part (ADAs that become criminal defense attorneys are the exception) are widget making stiffs who put in their years and then retire without any drive or motivation to grow professionally. That is my definition of a pathetic existence.
Let the games begin...

there are government employees and there are government employees. The guy who works minimally, with no professional pride for 30 years in order to spend the rest of his life sitting on a rocking chair on his front porch reading the paper is arguably wasting 30 years with no real fulfilling goal.
The guy who works pushing paper for 30 years so that when he gets home at 6 pm he doesn't have to think about work at all, and can have dinner with his family and go learn, and when he is 55 he can go back to kollel, spend time with his kids etc with no parnassa worries has one of the most fulfilling existences known to man.
As one of those in the second category, who had recently retired from a NYC job told me (as he sat down in the bais medrash for first seder), for thirty years I could have been comatose at my desk and no one would have cared. But now I am so alive!

[hvaces42]

there are government employees and there are government employees. The guy who works minimally, with no professional pride for 30 years in order to spend the rest of his life sitting on a rocking chair on his front porch reading the paper is arguably wasting 30 years with no real fulfilling goal.
The guy who works pushing paper for 30 years so that when he gets home at 6 pm he doesn't have to think about work at all, and can have dinner with his family and go learn, and when he is 55 he can go back to kollel, spend time with his kids etc with no parnassa worries has one of the most fulfilling existences known to man.
As one of those in the second category, who had recently retired from a NYC job told me (as he sat down in the bais medrash for first seder), for thirty years I could have been comatose at my desk and no one would have cared. But now I am so alive!

Kol Hakavod.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I believe most professions improve human life.

Would that include the oldest profession?

[lunatic]

there are government employees and there are government employees. The guy who works minimally, with no professional pride for 30 years in order to spend the rest of his life sitting on a rocking chair on his front porch reading the paper is arguably wasting 30 years with no real fulfilling goal.
The guy who works pushing paper for 30 years so that when he gets home at 6 pm he doesn't have to think about work at all, and can have dinner with his family and go learn, and when he is 55 he can go back to kollel, spend time with his kids etc with no parnassa worries has one of the most fulfilling existences known to man.
As one of those in the second category, who had recently retired from a NYC job told me (as he sat down in the bais medrash for first seder), for thirty years I could have been comatose at my desk and no one would have cared. But now I am so alive!

Still at pathetic use of 30 years...

[hvaces42]

Still at pathetic use of 30 years...

Thats a choice people make. Spend 30 years in a dead end job so that they have a pension and have to ration their retirement assets. They keep busy trying to figure out if they can afford a trip to here or a night out on the town. There is no (real) financial security in a government pension. It breeds frugality and deprivation.