The Tamar Epstein Saga

[avromie7]

So it would seem. Still very hard to believe

It's always hard to believe when the people who are looked up to by a large part of klal yisroel do something terribly wrong and use their power as leaders to do things they have no right to do, I don't know all the details of this story but I've seen such things before and it's very sad and scary

[churnbabychurn]

Well, if you have information that we have not yet seen then lets go back to where we started and instead hiding behind a new name made specially for this thread to espouse innuendo put your reputation on the line or at least give us these facts you are hiding from us.

Why are you so sure he usually posts here? Id wager he's a "guest" poster.

[churnbabychurn]

It's always hard to believe when the people who are looked up to by a large part of klal yisroel do something terribly wrong and use their power as leaders to do things they have no right to do, I don't know all the details of this story but I've seen such things before and it's very sad and scary

R Sholom Kamenetzke is a leader of Klall yisroel? I think he is just a rebbe or something in philly.

I've personally only heard of him in connection to various controversies over the years...

[avromie7]

R Sholom Kamenetzke is a leader of Klall yisroel? I think he is just a rebbe or something in philly.

I've personally only heard of him in connection to various controversies over the years...

His father is

[good sam]

FYI, this was ready to go out many weeks ago but the gaavad held it up until the facts were double triple verified.

That, or they wanted to wait for פרשת וישלח.

[SayWhat]

Well, if you have information that we have not yet seen then lets go back to where we started and instead hiding behind a new name made specially for this thread to espouse innuendo put your reputation on the line or at least give us these facts you are hiding from us.

What are you even talking about - my name is new because I never posted on this forum before.
What reputation? In case you haven't noticed everyone posts here anonymously.
What facts am I hiding? You don't make any sense

[aygart]

What reputation? In case you haven't noticed everyone posts here anonymously.
What facts am I hiding? You don't make any sense

The vast majority of those here have at the very least a reputation within the forums to protect, many have more than that due to people knowing them, DOs and the like. I for one can say that anyone who knows me and is on this forum knows who I am even if I don't know that they are  here.

Which word of "if" don't you understand?

[yesitsme83]

What are you even talking about - my name is new because I never posted on this forum before.
What reputation? In case you haven't noticed everyone posts here anonymously.
What facts am I hiding? You don't make any sense

You just don't get it, do you?
@aygart, probably the smartest person here on DDF (a real brainy bunch), has decided that you are hiding your "true DDF identity"  (whatever exactly that means) and that therefore disqualifies your views (for whatever reason). So don't bother arguing-your facts can not stand in the way of @aygart's opinions.
Real interesting how he attacks you over your anonymity for pages and all the sudden, when you totally destroy his main argument, he's got very little to say.

The naiveté and foolishness seen here is beyond belief. Do people here really believe that you can’t question the motives of a person like R’ Sholom because he’s a Rosh Yeshiva or Rebbe somewhere? Seriously? It takes a miniscule amount of brainpower to realize that that notion is not only ludicrous but dangerous. Can I question the motives of my shtiebel Rabbi? How about of my second grade Rebbe? We’re not talking about some gadol hador or even a well-established and elderly posek like R’ Nota (who seems to have been taken advantage of) but of a regular Rosh Yeshiva who’s probably no smarter than me or you or anyone else.
I don’t know exactly what did or did not happen but just looking at FACTS like the letter from R’ Nota, being privy to some mild forms of behind the scenes information, and using my brain (gasp!), have led to me to the conclusion that there was possibly (perhaps probably) a significant degree of deception going on here.

This thread lays bare one of the biggest problems with chareidi thought-drone mentality. Charedim feel that using your brain is only permitted when your Rebbi allows it. We’re not casting aspersion on the Vilna Gaon or Rav Moshe Feinstein here but on a man who is not very different from ourselves. If the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that something isn’t kosher here than to dismiss that possibility because “he’s a Rabbi” is so ridiculous it’s laughable if it weren’t sad.
My little faith in humanity declines with each thread like this.
And yes, @aygart, have fun lambasting me and discrediting my words because the great sin I've committed-“hiding” and not revealing my DDF screen name.

[churnbabychurn]

@yesitsme83
Thinking of starting a thread to figure out your ddf identity. (If u have one). I have a few clues already .   

[aygart]

There is no question that when someone finally mentions substance after numerous unsubstantive comments that will change things. I wrote earlier that my complaint was due to his posting anonymous innuendo without substance. Now he has at least mentioned a bit of substance, which was all discussed here already, I responded to that. To just quote a bunch of letters which write that TE is an eishes ish does not justify his innuendo. I fully agree that one may question the motives of a Rosh Yeshiva. In Judaism we do not consider anyone to be infallible. I did write though that when someone is muchzak as a talmid chochom and yirei shomayim there is a higher burden of proof which I do not feel was met with information presented here. I find it hard to believe that he wantonly was matir an eishes ish leshuk without thinking it through much better than anyone here or any other blog and even less so that he used trickery to fool his father and R Nota to do so. If that is where the facts lead in the end then so be it.

[Redbull3]

If you created a separate account just to post in this thread you are suuuch a clown.

[SayWhat]

I addition I will point out that the date of the letter you posted is in 2010, a good few years before he wrote that the B'D paskened that he is mechuyav. The letter itself specifically states "at this time".

aygart - Special for you the Baltimore Bais Din issued a letter November 3 2015 saying that they were never mechyuv the husband to give a Get. Does this work for you?
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/baltimore-beis-din-tamar-epstein-is.html


So we start with a husband who went to Bais Din as he should and they were not mechyuv him to give a Get (as of Nov 3 2015) Yet we have R Shalom writing 2 years prior to that date that he was mechyuv to give a Get?

Or we ok on that point - R Shalom either lied or was misinformed and did not do the basic research on this case before being Matir an Eishes Ish?   

[Ergel]

aygart - Special for you the Baltimore Bais Din issued a letter November 3 2015 saying that they were never mechyuv the husband to give a Get. Does this work for you?
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/11/baltimore-beis-din-tamar-epstein-is.html


So we start with a husband who went to Bais Din as he should and they were not mechyuv him to give a Get (as of Nov 3 2015) Yet we have R Shalom writing 2 years prior to that date that he was mechyuv to give a Get?

Or we ok on that point - R Shalom either lied or was misinformed and did not do the basic research on this case before being Matir an Eishes Ish?   

Can you just come out with it already and stop referring to yourself in third person?

[SayWhat]

Can you just come out with it already and stop referring to yourself in third person?

So you think that besides for the husband nobody else cares that an Eishes Eish was "remarried"

[yuneeq]

Can you just come out with it already and stop referring to yourself in third person?

There's a ton of people that post opinions similar to saywhat.
I guess your saying the husband has multiple personalities?

[SayWhat]

Can you just come out with it already and stop referring to yourself in third person?

I'm glad that you care more about Cyber Monday than what this means that "Daas Torah" allowed a married lady to remarry based on pure lies and deception. 

[Ergel]

So you think that besides for the husband nobody else cares that an Eishes Eish was "remarried"

Nope. If you read my posts above you'll notice I voice some of the same concerns above. There's a major problem here (and in general with the lack of centralized gittin vkidushin) that I think we all would love to get to the bottom of (with the likely outcome of tetzei mizeh umizeh).

There's a ton of people that post opinions similar to saywhat.
I guess your saying the husband has multiple personalities?

Nope. It's the way he says it

I'm glad that you care more about Cyber Monday than what this means that "Daas Torah" allowed a married lady to remarry based on pure lies and deception. 

Fascinating that you've yet to deny it

[cs50]

I'm glad that you care more about Cyber Monday than what this means that "Daas Torah" allowed a married lady to remarry based on pure lies and deception.

This whole thread has turned comical. It's a horrible story. A chillil Hashem. Bizayun hatorah. Unfortunately no one in this thread can solve the problem because they aren't qualified. So anyone here that thinks they are doing anything good should become a standup comedian - or better yet a " sit down behind a keyboard" comedian.

[churnbabychurn]

This whole thread has turned comical. It's a horrible story. A chillil Hashem. Bizayun hatorah. Unfortunately no one in this thread can solve the problem because they aren't qualified. So anyone here that thinks they are doing anything good should become a standup comedian - or better yet a " sit down behind a keyboard" comedian.

By continuously dismissing this machoh as some kind of "machlokes" that we don't and cant understand, you are in essence supporting this nevoloh shenasis beyisroel.

Calling any discussion about this a "chillul hashem" or "bizayon hatorah" is again an attempt to allow this avala and rishus to continue.

You don't have to participate, but please stop with the pathetic attempts at defending the perpetrators of this crime.


This in not just directed at cs50

[SayWhat]

Nope. If you read my posts above you'll notice I voice some of the same concerns above. There's a major problem here (and in general with the lack of centralized gittin vkidushin) that I think we all would love to get to the bottom of (with the likely outcome of tetzei mizeh umizeh).
Nope. It's the way he says it
Fascinating that you've yet to deny it

I am not the husband nor have I met him - I have a friend who is a relative of his