Areivim USA - Coronavirus

[aygart]

טענו לו בחיטים והודו לזכר קדשו

Is that similar to a להד"מ? Because then you would be absolutely correct.

[AsherO]

Anything that has variable factors cannot be guaranteed sustainable, but it's lasted this long, and as my quoted post says earlier, "even if they would shut down today, it would have been a resounding success."

If they shut it down today how many donors wouldn’t take it lightly after giving money for years? What about the family of a hypothetical donor who is terminally ill and on some level relying on this?

Other organizations aren’t structured this way, so it isn’t apples to apples. But if a קהילה געלט organization took money from someone and then didn’t pay out for what their mission is to, I’d have questions.

If RCCS had several rumored cases of denying help to families of Frum people in the area with cancer, I’d have questions.

[aygart]

If they shut it down today how many donors wouldn’t take it lightly after giving money for years? What about the family of a hypothetical donor who is terminally ill and on some level relying on this?

Other organizations aren’t structured this way, so it isn’t apples to apples. But if a קהילה געלט organization took money from someone and then didn’t pay out for what their mission is to, I’d have questions.

If RCCS had several rumored cases of denying help to families of Frum people in the area with cancer, I’d have questions.

You are being אוחז החבל בשני הראשים on The one hand you want them to avoid adverse selection and on the other hand when they do something to avoid it you call it denying help.

[AsherO]

You are being אוחז החבל בשני הראשים on The one hand you want them to avoid adverse selection and on the other hand when they do something to avoid it you call it denying help.

I don’t want them to do anything. All I’m saying is if they were transparent and upfront then when they stuck to their published terms and bylaws, and published financial data, I would respect that.

I do hold them to a higher standard than other organizations because they choose to present things differently.

[yuneeq]

I b personally don’t mind giving tzdaka to a family in need, in the case of areivim $7 per child after parent passes away. And the money really goes to the almana in cash.
Why would they need/have a pre existing clause???
עס איז דאך צדקה!!

As others mentioned it is much more sustainable the way it is currently set up. I also think people who are disqualified for prior medical issues usually have a lot less dignity to lose. Fundraising for a cancer patient that passed away is a lot less embarrassing for the family than a fundraiser for a healthy person that suddenly dies.

[AsherO]

As others mentioned it is much more sustainable the way it is currently set up.

I’m sorry, that sustainability is in question IMHO.

[Yosel]

As others mentioned it is much more sustainable the way it is currently set up. I also think people who are disqualified for prior medical issues usually have a lot less dignity to lose. Fundraising for a cancer patient that passed away is a lot less embarrassing for the family than a fundraiser for a healthy person that suddenly dies.

אני שומע

[yuneeq]

I’m sorry, that sustainability is in question IMHO.

Honestly your perspective is pretty dumb and just looks like you’re trying to denigrate a great organization for no reason. There’s nothing to sustain. Each death has its own collection, there’s no funds lying around to “sustain” the next collection. It’s simple automated collections upon an eligible death. They’ve been around for many years and other than something like COVID there’s no reason to think it can’t work for many more.

Your idea of auditing the financials shows you are completely missing the point.

[AsherO]

Honestly your perspective is pretty dumb and just looks like you’re trying to denigrate a great organization for no reason. There’s nothing to sustain. Each death has its own collection, there’s no funds lying around to “sustain” the next collection. It’s simple automated collections upon an eligible death. They’ve been around for many years and other than something like COVID there’s no reason to think it can’t work for many more.

Your idea of auditing the financials shows you are completely missing the point.

I’m under the impression that a lot of the members consider this an alternative to Life Insurance (which they either could or can’t afford), and Arevim hasn’t done enough to market their program in a way that it clearly isn’t that. Maybe I’m totally off but that was the impression I got when I encountered Areivim.

I understand we disagree here, but I don’t see how that justifies you calling my perspective dumb.

[yuneeq]

I’m under the impression that a lot of the members consider this an alternative to Life Insurance (which they either could or can’t afford), and Arevim hasn’t done enough to market their program in a way that it clearly isn’t that. Maybe I’m totally off but that was the impression I got when I encountered Areivim.

I understand we disagree here, but I don’t see how that justifies you calling my perspective dumb.

For the hundredth time it isn’t life insurance and that’s where dumb comes into play. The burden is on you to show them marketing it like that before denigrating for being an “unsustainable life insurance policy” when it’s clearly not what it is.

[ExGingi]

I’m under the impression that a lot of the members consider this an alternative to Life Insurance (which they either could or can’t afford), and Arevim hasn’t done enough to market their program in a way that it clearly isn’t that. Maybe I’m totally off but that was the impression I got when I encountered Areivim.

I understand we disagree here, but I don’t see how that justifies you calling my perspective dumb.

FWIW they do state it clearly. Whether or not it's prominent enough is a subjective opinion.

The problem is that people will believe what they want to, even if it's removed from the reality presented to them. That happens everywhere a purchase is involved, as purchases involve emotions too. I am currently dealing with an extreme case where I took over as servicing agent on a policy, and the client is making baseless ridiculous arguments, ignoring the fact that they simply didn't pay all their premiums due on time, spending so much time and energy trying to tell me what the company should do, who they should hire, etc etc.

[AsherO]

For the hundredth time it isn’t life insurance and that’s where dumb comes into play. The burden is on you to show them marketing it like that before denigrating for being an “unsustainable life insurance policy” when it’s clearly not what it is.

For the hundredth time, you’re entitled to your opinion but please stop calling mine dumb. The fact that they busy in their terms that it isn’t life insurance doesn’t change the impression I got when I encountered the organization. Granted it was years ago and their approach may have changed, but I’m entitled to wonder about it.

[ExGingi]

I’m under the impression that a lot of the members consider this an alternative to Life Insurance (which they either could or can’t afford), and Arevim hasn’t done enough to market their program in a way that it clearly isn’t that. Maybe I’m totally off but that was the impression I got when I encountered Areivim.

I understand we disagree here, but I don’t see how that justifies you calling my perspective dumb.

As a first step remove/change the poll which seems to imply that Areivim is something one "has"!

The only thing a person "has" as a result of becoming a member of Areivim is the זכות of a מצוה. Putting that in one sentence (how much more so, a question) with Life Insurance is PURPOSELY MISLEADING!

[ExGingi]

For the hundredth time, you’re entitled to your opinion but please stop calling mine dumb. The fact that they busy in their terms that it isn’t life insurance doesn’t change the impression I got when I encountered the organization. Granted it was years ago and their approach may have changed, but I’m entitled to wonder about it.

Did you encounter the organization or an individual that tried to promote it thinking he or she is doing the world the greatest favor?

[yesitsme]

Did you encounter the organization or an individual that tried to promote it thinking he or she is doing the world the greatest favor?

No the burden is not on him.....

מאן דכאיב ליה כאיבא אזיל לבי אסיא

[AsherO]

As a first step remove/change the poll which seems to imply that Areivim is something one "has"!

The only thing a person "has" as a result of becoming a member of Areivim is the זכות of a מצוה. Putting that in one sentence (how much more so, a question) with Life Insurance is PURPOSELY MISLEADING!

I didn’t put the poll up though I agree it seems misleading. Not enough to take a position as a mod unless you can tell me which forum rule it violates and how, and suggest an amendment.

In any case if you do, do it via the report-to-mod button or PM since moderation questions shouldn’t be asked publicly.

[AsherO]

Did you encounter the organization or an individual that tried to promote it thinking he or she is doing the world the greatest favor?

It was people representing/promoting the organization, I would assume they speak for the organization to some extent. I’m not sure they were knowledgeable enough about LI to discuss the differences between Areivim and LI, and you might argue that as volunteers maybe they shouldn’t have to. FWIW at the time I was clueless about LI as well, as I assume many people who sign up are.

[yesitsme]

Do you have something against charities in general? It feels weird arguing on 2 threads

[aygart]

For the hundredth time it isn’t life insurance and that’s where dumb comes into play. The burden is on you to show them marketing it like that before denigrating for being an “unsustainable life insurance policy” when it’s clearly not what it is.

Just the name implies an acceptance of responsibility.

[AsherO]

Do you have something against charities in general? It feels weird arguing on 2 threads

I have something against lack of transparency and iffy fundraising methods. I have nothing against charity/tzedakah.