Ultimate Rewards Airfare Redemption

[Matovu]

And while we are at this discussion.
And Dan is here now.
I almost was thinking about doing the exact same thing.

I'm looking for a NYC-YYC flight.
Cost is over 500.00
UA Saaver is terrible.
25,000 instead of 12,500 and instead of nonstop it's with stops....
The Chase malls can help...

[menachem_m]

If you're not getting a value of 1.5cpm++ for your points you should be spending on a Barclay Arrival and not playing this game.

Even at the expense of Amex protections?

[@Yehuda]

What in the world does the price of CLE-FLL (which at the time had zero competition, now has limited competition from F9) have to do with NYC-YYZ (which has tons of competition)?

Did you brother check Avios?  Even in first class it would have been much less than 13K each way on that route.

"Free" is only good when there's value.  If you're not getting a value of 1.5cpm++ for your points you should be spending on a Barclay Arrival and not playing this game.

And I still don't know what this has to do with UR mall.  This is using points for flight redemptions.  It's a benefit of every Chase card and the value you'll get is always going to be 1-1.25cpp, never a good use of miles.

Sheesh, seems like someone's not in a great mood.

I just assumed the two routes would be similar. Clearly, they're not. My bad.

He wanted to fly on the same flight as his FIL who had already booked the AC flight, so he didn't check Avios.

So if you had to take this flight, you would have paid cash and not used "just" 13K miles?

Is UR mall only officially for redeeming points for merchandise? I'm sorry, I just assumed it referred to using points for any redemption through Chase.

[EJB]

And while we are at this discussion.
And Dan I where now.
I almost was thinking about doing the exact same thing.

I'm looking for a NYC-YYC flight.
Cost is over 500.00
UA Saaver is terrible.
25,000 instead of 12,500 and instead of nonstop it's with stops....
The Chase malls can help...

Why does the chase mall help? You're still getting a bad redemption rate. Unless you don't have the cash.
Also, NYC-YYC is a lot different than NYC-YYZ

[Matovu]

Yehuda,
Remember you're getting miles for flying too...

[@Yehuda]

Turns out my brother did look at Avios. AA had no avail for the day/time he needs. So that wasn't an option. The dollar value of the flight is about $180. He's been quoted 1.4 for UR before and that's at 50K (and he does not have that many). NYC-YYZ is about 350 miles so I can't imagine he would have gotten that much miles from the flight (not sure how it's calculated).

Even if he could have sold 13K for 1.4 and gotten $182 then bought the $180 ticket minus the miles he would have earned - let's say 1000 miles? at even 1.4 (which it wouldn't be bc they would be AC/UA) would be $14 for a total of $166. That's a savings of $16. We're not talking about a lot of money here.

[Super Speed]

Turns out my brother did look at Avios. AA had no avail for the day/time he needs. So that wasn't an option. The dollar value of the flight is about $180. He's been quoted 1.4 for UR before and that's at 50K (and he does not have that many). NYC-YYZ is about 350 miles so I can't imagine he would have gotten that much miles from the flight (not sure how it's calculated).

Even if he could have sold 13K for 1.4 and gotten $182 then bought the $180 ticket minus the miles he would have earned - let's say 1000 miles? at even 1.4 (which it wouldn't be bc they would be AC/UA) would be $14 for a total of $166. That's a savings of $16. We're not talking about a lot of money here.

The point is that you thought he got a good deal and came out ahead but the truth is not like that.

[@Yehuda]

The point is that you thought he got a good deal and came out ahead but the truth is not like that.

You're right, that's true.

[Dan]

Turns out my brother did look at Avios. AA had no avail for the day/time he needs. So that wasn't an option. The dollar value of the flight is about $180. He's been quoted 1.4 for UR before and that's at 50K (and he does not have that many). NYC-YYZ is about 350 miles so I can't imagine he would have gotten that much miles from the flight (not sure how it's calculated).

Even if he could have sold 13K for 1.4 and gotten $182 then bought the $180 ticket minus the miles he would have earned - let's say 1000 miles? at even 1.4 (which it wouldn't be bc they would be AC/UA) would be $14 for a total of $166. That's a savings of $16. We're not talking about a lot of money here.

By definition the UR book travel site gives 1cpp with Freedom or 1.25cpp with Sapphire.
A 13K redemption would be for a paid ticket that costs between $130-$162.50.

Also as I predicted the value of UR has been trending up now that the scaremongerers are quiet (RUN, Chase is going to take all your points unless you ditch them NOW!)

[Dan]

So if you had to take this flight, you would have paid cash and not used "just" 13K miles?

Of course. A bad redemption is a bad redemption.
And by definition a UR redemption for paid travel is bad just like using SPG points for paid travel is bad: http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/4133

[@Yehuda]

By definition the UR book travel site gives 1cpp with Freedom or 1.25cpp with Sapphire.
A 13K redemption would be for a paid ticket that costs between $130-$162.50.

Also as I predicted the value of UR has been trending up now that the scaremongerers are quiet (RUN, Chase is going to take all your points unless you ditch them NOW!)

Gotcha. Maybe UR has access to cheaper tix than just searching on AC on your own.

Of course. A bad redemption is a bad redemption.
And by definition a UR redemption for paid travel is bad just like using SPG points for paid travel is bad: http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/4133

I hear ya. Thanks for the explanations, I appreciate it.

[NYHeel]

Of course. A bad redemption is a bad redemption.
And by definition a UR redemption for paid travel is bad just like using SPG points for paid travel is bad: http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/4133

Isn't there a risk of Chase closing an account for selling miles? Years ago I had my AA miles closed and forfeited when I sold my miles. Now it wasn't so bad since I didn't have too much left but it was a loss.

Also, I find mileage availability to be awful at times. I just checked NYC to YYZ in January 2015 (when I'm going to have to go to Toronto) and there's no availability with Avios for 5 tickets. And that's 5.5 months away. I can't imagine what it would be like within 2 months. It looks like there's 2-3 award seats available on those flights. As someone who doesn't fly often (on my own dime) it seems like my choices are never use the points or use them at sub-standard values.

[ilherman]

Lol, just saw this thread... @Yehuda we argued enough about all these in your trip planning thread. Looks like Dan didn't follow that thread.... Again you did not fly around the world for free; points are not free; points have a value; just because it's not available for saver award for 12.5k  means that paying 13k UR is a good value. If you can't get at least 1.4/5 CPP its not worth it. I know you wanna answer "but I can fly for free for 13k points" Its not free!   

BTW @Dan, @Yehuda claims that his LOR does not allow him to sell points/miles that's why.....

[@Yehuda]

Lol, just saw this thread... @Yehuda we argued enough about all these in your trip planning thread. Looks like Dan didn't follow that thread.... Again you did not fly around the world for free; points are not free; points have a value; just because it's not available for saver award for 12.5k  means that paying 13k UR is a good value. If you can't get at least 1.4/5 CPP its not worth it. I know you wanna answer "but I can fly for free for 13k points" Its not free!   

BTW @Dan, @Yehuda claims that his LOR does not allow him to sell points/miles that's why.....

I guess I like to argue

That was a psak I asked. My brother, on the other hand, can do as he wants.

[Dan]

Isn't there a risk of Chase closing an account for selling miles? Years ago I had my AA miles closed and forfeited when I sold my miles. Now it wasn't so bad since I didn't have too much left but it was a loss.

Also, I find mileage availability to be awful at times. I just checked NYC to YYZ in January 2015 (when I'm going to have to go to Toronto) and there's no availability with Avios for 5 tickets. And that's 5.5 months away. I can't imagine what it would be like within 2 months. It looks like there's 2-3 award seats available on those flights. As someone who doesn't fly often (on my own dime) it seems like my choices are never use the points or use them at sub-standard values.

1. No reports of Chase closing down accounts for transfers to others mileage accounts.
2. Attend a DDS and you would know award seats open up more as flights get closer. Look for 5 seats in August, most dates are wide open.
And is splitting up onto 2 flights an hour apart a big deal?

Lol, just saw this thread... @Yehuda we argued enough about all these in your trip planning thread. Looks like Dan didn't follow that thread.... Again you did not fly around the world for free; points are not free; points have a value; just because it's not available for saver award for 12.5k  means that paying 13k UR is a good value. If you can't get at least 1.4/5 CPP its not worth it. I know you wanna answer "but I can fly for free for 13k points" Its not free!   

BTW @Dan, @Yehuda claims that his LOR does not allow him to sell points/miles that's why.....

Didn't read it.

[Redbull3]

Isn't there a risk of Chase closing an account for selling miles? Years ago I had my AA miles closed and forfeited when I sold my miles. Now it wasn't so bad since I didn't have too much left but it was a loss.

Also, I find mileage availability to be awful at times. I just checked NYC to YYZ in January 2015 (when I'm going to have to go to Toronto) and there's no availability with Avios for 5 tickets. And that's 5.5 months away. I can't imagine what it would be like within 2 months. It looks like there's 2-3 award seats available on those flights. As someone who doesn't fly often (on my own dime) it seems like my choices are never use the points or use them at sub-standard values.

To Dan's earlier point if you aren't willing or are unable to sell and your only potential trips are those with tough availability that would end up being below grey market value, maybe you should look into other cards.

[Dan]

To Dan's earlier point if you aren't willing or are unable to sell and your only potential trips are those with tough availability that would end up being below grey market value, maybe you should look into other cards.

Yup, Barclays Arrival is tough to beat for economy class redeemers.

[menachem_m]

And is splitting up onto 2 flights an hour apart a big deal?

What happens if the first flight is delayed/cancelled and they tell me to go fly a kite?

[NYHeel]

Yup, Barclays Arrival is tough to beat for economy class redeemers.

Yeah, my primary card is the Fidelity Amex for that reason. It gives me cash which I don't even have to use for official travel costs. So if I rent an apartment in Israel I can use the money where I can't for Barclays. If I want to use the money for Disney park tickets I can't use the Barclays points. I just opened a SP and Ink Plus to see if I can take advantage of some of the short haul economy flights.

I don't have much of a need for business/first as I don't place a high value on flying non-coach. I'll pay about 10%-15% more in points or cash but that's about it.

[NYHeel]

1. No reports of Chase closing down accounts for transfers to others mileage accounts.
2. Attend a DDS and you would know award seats open up more as flights get closer. Look for 5 seats in August, most dates are wide open.
And is splitting up onto 2 flights an hour apart a big deal?

Good point about award seats opening up. My only question is why are they charging about $57 a person in fees for round trip from NYC to YYZ. I thought it was only about $10 per round trip ticket. It's showing 45,000 Avios + $288.