CV's Copy - ISRAEL-HAMAS

[CountValentine]

Support in the US for the war is declining just as predicted and as expected. This was before the college protests.
The next stage of the war will only make it worse.

[Chuchum Ainer]

Support in the US for the war is declining just as predicted and as expected. This was before the college protests.
The next stage of the war will only make it worse.

Too true. And Hamas gets that, one of the reasons they are dragging out negotiations.

[CountValentine]

Support in the US for the war is declining just as predicted and as expected. This was before the college protests.
The next stage of the war will only make it worse.

...and it has started.
So, when the protests get worse you know one of the main reasons. 

[Just A Jew]

...and it has started.
So, when the protests get worse you know one of the main reasons.

You mean they're gonna start protesting the bombing of the aid crossing and the murder of 4 Israelis there?

[CountValentine]

I understand it is easy to blame the US. If only the US would let Israel fight the war the way they want. Here is a news flash. The US can't make Israel do anything. The choice is on Israel. Please stop all the whining and constant blaming the US. 

Many more here going down the rabbit hole. So sad to see.

[First Time CCer]

You don't see a difference in pushing a certain policy and negotiating in bad faith?

[CountValentine]

You don't see a difference in pushing a certain policy and negotiating in bad faith?

Yes I see a difference. Claiming the US did it without a shred of evidence is going down the rabbit hole.
When you see nothing but negative articles about the US, I guess that is the end result.
Exhibit C for EC. 

 

[aygart]

Yes I see a difference. Claiming the US did it without a shred of evidence is going down the rabbit hole.
When you see nothing but negative articles about the US, I guess that is the end result.
Exhibit C for EC. 

 

Why would this be different than any other discussion based on an NYT article?

[gozalim]

If the sources saying the wording changes were approved by burns are reliable, interpret those changes as you wish. That's bad faith enough for me

[gozalim]

Ironically since ostensibly US interest is more in finishing quickly (specifically before November) then it is in hamas survival/victory, had they not stalled rafah for so long, it would have been over that much sooner

[CountValentine]

If the sources saying the wording changes were approved by burns are reliable, interpret those changes as you wish. That's bad faith enough for me

Then you don't understand how negotiating works. You are trying to get a deal and there is constant back and forth. Hamas pulled off a PR coup. So they win the PR game again so let's blame the US instead of the complete failure by Israel.

[aygart]

Then you don't understand how negotiating works. You are trying to get a deal and there is constant back and forth. Hamas pulled off a PR coup. So they win the PR game again so let's blame the US instead of the complete failure by Israel.

The only thing that allowed it to be a PR coup was that the US went along with it as if Hamas agreed to previous proposals.

[CountValentine]

Ironically since ostensibly US interest is more in finishing quickly (specifically before November) then it is in hamas survival/victory, had they not stalled rafah for so long, it would have been over that much sooner

Yup, blame the US for Rafah. I am sure it had nothing to with the massive logistics involved.
Why didn't Israel go in on day one?

Oct 7 was a massive failure by Israel. You want to blame someone then there is your starting point!!!

[CountValentine]

The only thing that allowed it to be a PR coup was that the US went along with it as if Hamas agreed to previous proposals.

So the US was complicate in the PR stunt? 

[aygart]

Yup, blame the US for Rafah. I am sure it had nothing to with the massive logistics involved.
Why didn't Israel go in on day one?

Oct 7 was a massive failure by Israel. You want to blame someone then there is your starting point!!!

Most likely both the logistics and fear of losing US aid (which seems to be happening anyhow) were part of it. Probably also to give troops time to rest and to wait until after Pesach.

[aygart]

So the US was complicate in the PR stunt? 

If the US let the language through without letting Israel know as is claimed by the NYT article, then yes.

[CountValentine]

Most likely both the logistics and fear of losing US aid (which seems to be happening anyhow) were part of it. Probably also to give troops time to rest and to wait until after Pesach.

Israel has done what they want and when they want from the beginning. Using the US for blame is smokescreen and PR coup for them.

[CountValentine]

If the US let the language through without letting Israel know as is claimed by the NYT article, then yes.

Lets deal in facts.
You need to get one side to agree to something before you can have both sides agree.

[First Time CCer]

Yes I see a difference. Claiming the US did it without a shred of evidence is going down the rabbit hole.
When you see nothing but negative articles about the US, I guess that is the end result.
Exhibit C for EC. 

Quoting what is reported in NYT is an EC? Interesting.

[CountValentine]

Quoting what is reported in NYT is an EC? Interesting.

You don't see a difference in quoting something and accepting it as fact pushing a certain policy and negotiating in bad faith?