Sold miles seller tells me not to cash check

[jj1000]

That maaaayyyy be true if he asked for it as tzedaka in the first place, and you simply never verified him. But in this case, he never requested tzedaka. It was a biz deal gone bad b/c he cheated you. How can that possibly be tzedaka?

No patience to argue this out when you have to ask your own rav anyway on a case to case basis. So AYLOR.

[moko]

I don't get it.
People still sell miles? Don't they know its against the T&C of the airlines and they shut down accounts, ban them for life?
When will people learn?

but when you're using disposable accounts with fake middle initials wrong addresses and bd, there's little harm.

[churnbabychurn]

The guy could have plenty of other businesses with healthy cash flows. He also may be paying to lease a nice car etc.
He is claiming that that miles business is having trouble.
He may be in the need of a kick in the pants, not charity!

[SPLP]

+1 -- Not paying is stealing

[Chaikel]

+1 I would go so far as to say even if what he says is not true it can still be counted towards masar 1:1 because it is not your job to verify everyone's situation if they say they have no money.

I heard that if he sold SPG some rabbis will say it counts for 1:1.25

[CountValentine]

I heard that if he sold SPG some rabbis will say it counts for 1:1.25

Why do I have the feeling you are not joking?

[Chaikel]

Why do I have the feeling you are not joking?

All of a sudden you're the Ma'aser Ksofim expert?

[CountValentine]

All of a sudden you're the Ma'aser Ksofim expert?

Not at all but how does someone committing fraud have anything to do with maaser?

[Drago]

Not at all but how does someone committing fraud have anything to do with maaser?

wow!
I'm almost expecting you to start quoting a machlokes rishonim next

[Chaikel]

Not at all but how does someone committing fraud have anything to do with maaser?

JJ was saying that if a loan went bad to someone's impoverished situation that it may count toward maaser. Halachicly fraud would be if one borrowed with no intention to pay. If the person borrowed in good faith, and later isn't in a position to pay back, then the lender could possibly forgive the loan as charity. The borrower would still lose out on the mitzva of poreya baal chov, but wouldn't be considered to be a fraud

[CountValentine]

If the OP gave the person the miles to help him out that is maaser. The OP is selling the miles. If he does not get paid and tries to claim it as maaser that does not pass the smell test in my book. No need to check with my spiritual advisor on this one.   

[Chaikel]

If the OP gave the person the miles to help him out that is maaser. The OP is selling the miles. If he does not get paid and tries to claim it as maaser that does not pass the smell test in my book. No need to check with my spiritual advisor on this one.   

Once transfer of good takes place the money owed can be considered a loan. As said up thread, if someone forgives a loan it might be able to be considered maaser

[CountValentine]

Once transfer of good takes place the money owed can be considered a loan. As said up thread, if someone forgives a loan it might be able to be considered maaser

I fully understand what you and others are saying. What I am saying is that line of reasoning does not fly in my book.

[real-brisker]

CV - Do you understand of one forgives a loan that can count as maaser?
Then why can't you understand if one forgives debt it can also count as maaser?

[CountValentine]

CV - Do you understand of one forgives a loan that can count as maaser?
Then why can't you understand if one forgives debt it can also count as maaser?

I get all that. The part that does not fly with me is you are selling the miles and when the deal goes bad you are claiming it is a loan to get the maaser benefit. I guess we just look at it differently.

[moko]

I get all that. The part that does not fly with me is you are selling the miles and when the deal goes bad you are claiming it is a loan to get the maaser benefit. I guess we just look at it differently.

they are forgiving the loan bec. they know that there's no chance of getting the money and don't want the guy going to hell bec. of them (he's probably got enough other reasons). Once they're forgiving it, they want the ma'aser benefit also . ( for CV: on Yom Kippur eve, some (most?) say  that they are forgiving of all monies that cannot be retrieved in a court (of Jewish law) so that we may merit gods forgiveness-measure for measure- the main reason for this is NOT for the ma'aser benefit but once doing it he'd like to count it towards ma'aser)

[CountValentine]

they are forgiving the loan bec. they know that there's no chance of getting the money and don't want the guy going to hell bec. of them (he's probably got enough other reasons). Once they're forgiving it, they want the ma'aser benefit also . ( for CV: on Yom Kippur eve, some (most?) say  that they are forgiving of all monies that cannot be retrieved in a court (of Jewish law) so that we may merit gods forgiveness-measure for measure- the main reason for this is NOT for the ma'aser benefit but once doing it he'd like to count it towards ma'aser)

I appreciate all the explanations. I know religion plays a big part in this for most of you.

So I guess most of you disagree with having the check bounce and the guy arrested? 

[meshugener]

Having him arrested would be considered mesirah, which is very chumor in Jewish law.


Now you have two words to google.

[Ergel]

I get all that. The part that does not fly with me is you are selling the miles and when the deal goes bad you are claiming it is a loan to get the maaser benefit. I guess we just look at it differently.

Unfortunately, I agree with cv this time. If he "forgives" it at this point, he's only doing it because he can't collect, not out of the goodness of his heart. If the guy offered to pay and he says, it's ok-I know you are having a hard time, you can keep it-that would be a different story.

[Ergel]

Having him arrested would be considered mesirah, which is very chumor in Jewish law.


Now you have two words to google.

He would probably have more success with chamur (unless he's Hasidic)