AMEX Return Protection: Did They Make You Return The Item?

[jl75]

thanks, just curious if anyone had actual experience claiming such an item (ebay open box-new)

Just to follow up on this, has anybody had any actual experience claiming open box items? What about items that are sold as "open box" and are basically in new condition, but don't come with the actual box? Thanks!

[elihak7]

Filed a claim sent in receipt with their store policy stating no returns after 7 days, got no response and claim was closed, I called them and they connected me with an examiner, she claimed they need documentation on the return attempt, I asked how exactly I can provide that (I usually don’t wear my body cam…), she claims until I don’t upload that they cannot process claim. How can I go about this?

[HoKo]

Filed a claim sent in receipt with their store policy stating no returns after 7 days, got no response and claim was closed, I called them and they connected me with an examiner, she claimed they need documentation on the return attempt, I asked how exactly I can provide that (I usually don’t wear my body cam…), she claims until I don’t upload that they cannot process claim. How can I go about this?

I see three options:

1. Ask the store to provide a written confirmation that they will not accept the return.

2. Do a 3-way call w/ Amex claims examiner and the retailer's customer service department

3. Escalate to a supervisor and say that this is a silly request and ask them to over-rule

[shmooz]

Can try above or also type a letter and sign it saying on this date you attempted to return by speaking to this person and was refused. Sign and upload and see what happens. I'm not saying I've tried this, but similar things with amex, they just want something to file away sometimes.

[elihak7]

I see three options:

1. Ask the store to provide a written confirmation that they will not accept the return.

2. Do a 3-way call w/ Amex claims examiner and the retailer's customer service department

3. Escalate to a supervisor and say that this is a silly request and ask them to over-rule

For 1 & 2 they specified they want proof of attempted return on the day I claimed I did.

[elihak7]

Can try above or also type a letter and sign it saying on this date you attempted to return by speaking to this person and was refused. Sign and upload and see what happens. I'm not saying I've tried this, but similar things with amex, they just want something to file away sometimes.

I have had them call the store asking if it’s true. Don’t wanna lie to assurance company.

[kickballrubber]

I have had them call the store asking if it’s true. Don’t wanna lie to assurance company.

What kind of item is this? Surprised that AMEX is making you go through silly hoops.

[HoKo]

For 1 & 2 they specified they want proof of attempted return on the day I claimed I did.

What retailer is this? If it’s any big store then more than likely their returns are all done without speaking to a human. Take Amazon as an example, you can do your return via Amazon.com without ever speaking to a human. So you could genuinely claim “I went to Amazon.com and tried to return the item but was unable to do so because Amazon’s website doesn’t even allow for a customer to process a return past their stated 30 day policy. Therefore, there simply is no hard “proof”

[elihak7]

What kind of item is this? Surprised that AMEX is making you go through silly hoops.

Reg inexpensive clothing.

[elihak7]

What retailer is this? If it’s any big store then more than likely their returns are all done without speaking to a human. Take Amazon as an example, you can do your return via Amazon.com without ever speaking to a human. So you could genuinely claim “I went to Amazon.com and tried to return the item but was unable to do so because Amazon’s website doesn’t even allow for a customer to process a return past their stated 30 day policy. Therefore, there simply is no hard “proof”

Small local retailer, no manager on site, cashier doesn’t wont what I want from her life.

[jl75]

I have had them call the store asking if it’s true. Don’t wanna lie to assurance company.

That was my first thought upon reading that response, too, but in fairness to the person who posted it, they did say "Can try above or also type a letter and sign it saying on this date you attempted to return by speaking to this person and was refused." In stating "by speaking to this person" the only possible interpretation is that the suggestion was for the OP to include in his letter the name of the person he spoke to at the "store" (and by using the word "store" I'm assuming that the OP was specifically referring to a brick-and-mortar store). Otherwise, yes, it would be very bad to lie because if they find out that you lied on a claim, that would be fraud, and I'd imagine that the least punishment would be to lose your Return Protection benefits if not your entire relationship with American Express, and the worst that could happen would be getting prosecuted for insurance fraud.

[jl75]

Small local retailer, no manager on site, cashier doesn’t wont what I want from her life.

Then you could probably try to submit a signed letter stating the date that you went to the store to inquire about returning the item. They do seem to be getting a lot stricter as of a month or two ago, and asking for a lot more evidence than they did prior to that, so at this point I wouldn't be surprised by anything that they ask for. Just make sure that you have the date and details right, because if they go and ask the retailer (or worse, check their cameras--like I said, nothing would surprise me at this point), then that could get you in trouble. If you do that and they still aren't satisfied, then you'd probably have to go back into the store and talk to the manager, and ask them to give you a letter stating that (A) they won't accept the return as per their return policy, and (B) that you did make an attempt on the date that you claimed you did, and that you were also informed on that date that they wouldn't accept the return. Good luck and let us know what happens!

[petun]

I am finding the "proof of return attempt on the stated date" a bit odd. If a retailer has a clear return policy and it has lapsed, I don't go into the store and try to return the item unless there is something clearly wrong with the item and I didn't notice on time to make the return. Otherwise, do people actually drive to stores to attempt to make returns when they clearly cannot, or call customer service when the website states the return period has lapsed? I imagine that, in most cases, they do not --- it's a waste of one's time. For this reason, I interpret the "date of return attempt" as the date you decided you wanted to return the item and realized it was too late (unless, of course, the store does not have a clearly stated return policy -- in that case, you do try to make the return). If I am indeed misinterpreting this, then Amex should rewrite its policy to state that you should document return attempts if you want to file a claim and what they consider to be appropriate form of documentation. While maybe there are people who do go into stores to try to return items they clearly cannot, I do not believe they actually document it and it sounds rather difficult to provide such proof -- who is going to remember you?!

[HoKo]

I am finding the "proof of return attempt on the stated date" a bit odd. If a retailer has a clear return policy and it has lapsed, I don't go into the store and try to return the item unless there is something clearly wrong with the item and I didn't notice on time to make the return. Otherwise, do people actually drive to stores to attempt to make returns when they clearly cannot, or call customer service when the website states the return period has lapsed? I imagine that, in most cases, they do not --- it's a waste of one's time. For this reason, I interpret the "date of return attempt" as the date you decided you wanted to return the item and realized it was too late (unless, of course, the store does not have a clearly stated return policy -- in that case, you do try to make the return). If I am indeed misinterpreting this, then Amex should rewrite its policy to state that you should document return attempts if you want to file a claim and what they consider to be appropriate form of documentation. While maybe there are people who do go into stores to try to return items they clearly cannot, I do not believe they actually document it and it sounds rather difficult to provide such proof -- who is going to remember you?!

Agreed. And no normal person is then going to tell the cashier "ok, now i need you to produce an official letter on company letterhead documenting our interaction and stating that you are formally rejecting my return attempt"

What's Amex gonna ask for next, perhaps that we need to bring a notary public with us to the store to notarize the return attempt denial letter??

[jl75]

I am finding the "proof of return attempt on the stated date" a bit odd. If a retailer has a clear return policy and it has lapsed, I don't go into the store and try to return the item unless there is something clearly wrong with the item and I didn't notice on time to make the return. Otherwise, do people actually drive to stores to attempt to make returns when they clearly cannot, or call customer service when the website states the return period has lapsed? I imagine that, in most cases, they do not --- it's a waste of one's time. For this reason, I interpret the "date of return attempt" as the date you decided you wanted to return the item and realized it was too late (unless, of course, the store does not have a clearly stated return policy -- in that case, you do try to make the return). If I am indeed misinterpreting this, then Amex should rewrite its policy to state that you should document return attempts if you want to file a claim and what they consider to be appropriate form of documentation. While maybe there are people who do go into stores to try to return items they clearly cannot, I do not believe they actually document it and it sounds rather difficult to provide such proof -- who is going to remember you?!

I agree with you on a personal level, and I especially agree that them going from completely lax to asking for all sorts of extra steps over the course of two months has gotten quite annoying. However, unfortunately for us, if you read the program description for Return Protection, it states:

"If you try to return an eligible item within 90 days from the date of purchase and the merchant won’t take it back, American Express may refund the full purchase price, up to $300 per item, excluding shipping and handling charges related to the item purchased, and up to a maximum of $1,000 per Card Member account per calendar year based on the date of purchase, not during the year the claim was filed."

"How to File a Return Protection Request: Once you have verified that the merchant will not accept the eligible item, call 1-800-228-6855 within 90 days of the purchase date to notify us of your request."

It clearly states that we have to "try to return" the item and that the "merchant won't take it back", and it instructs us on how to file a claim "once you have verified that the merchant will not accept the eligible item." In other words, the way that a lot of us have been filing claims by just looking at the return policy, realizing that we were too late to return the item according to the return policy, and then filing a claim based on that, isn't what's stated in the program description, so we've technically been getting off easy by them not asking for proof of our return attempt (and, it seems, generally not asking us to go through the extra step of returning the item). Several weeks ago, someone posted that AmEx Assurance made them schedule a three-way call with a representative of Amazon.com to verify that the items they were claiming were not refundable. And several of us have had them request photos, package tracking information, etc., so it seems like they're changing their internal policy and looking to make us jump through a lot more hoops for these claims. We'll see how strict they are about this...most normal people are busy and wouldn't remember a week or two later exactly when they went into a store (or called on the phone) and who they spoke to at the customer service counter or cashier, as we have much more important things to worry about. If, in spite of that, AmEx Assurance decides to start making it much more difficult to get legitimate Return Protection claims approved, then that doesn't bode well for their reputation for delivering on the benefits and protections that they promise, and I imagine that some of us will reconsider our relationship with American Express because of it.

[jl75]

Agreed. And no normal person is then going to tell the cashier "ok, now i need you to produce an official letter on company letterhead documenting our interaction and stating that you are formally rejecting my return attempt"

What's Amex gonna ask for next, perhaps that we need to bring a notary public with us to the store to notarize the return attempt denial letter??

In the several years that I've been using Return Protection, I've only once had them ask for proof that the retailer wouldn't take the item back, and like this poster, it was for an item bought at a single-branch brick-and-mortar store. In that case, though, AmEx Assurance wasn't asking for proof of my return attempt, but for proof that I didn't return or exchange the item or otherwise get refunded for it. I e-mailed the store and the manager was nice enough to e-mail me a statement to that effect, and I submitted it and the claim was approved shortly thereafter. Of course, that was a few years ago, long before AmEx Assurance started this spell of asking for lots of new types of supplementary evidence. I guess the worst that can happen is if you can't remember who you talked to and they can't remember you, then they just won't approve the claim, but they hopefully won't use it against you if you file any other claims in the future.

[HoKo]

if you read the program description for Return Protection, it states:

"If you try to return an eligible item within 90 days from the date of purchase and the merchant won’t take it back, American Express may refund the full purchase price, up to $300 per item, excluding shipping and handling charges related to the item purchased, and up to a maximum of $1,000 per Card Member account per calendar year based on the date of purchase, not during the year the claim was filed."

"How to File a Return Protection Request: Once you have verified that the merchant will not accept the eligible item, call 1-800-228-6855 within 90 days of the purchase date to notify us of your request."

It clearly states that we have to "try to return" the item and that the "merchant won't take it back", and it instructs us on how to file a claim "once you have verified that the merchant will not accept the eligible item." In other words, the way that a lot of us have been filing claims by just looking at the return policy, realizing that we were too late to return the item according to the return policy, and then filing a claim based on that, isn't what's stated in the program description, so we've technically been getting off easy by them not asking for proof of our return attempt (and, it seems, generally not asking us to go through the extra step of returning the item).

I actually respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the terms. The T&C does not state that the return attempt must be made with a human being. In fact, it doesn't specify at all what a "return attempt" even consists of.

So here is what I consider to be a valid return attempt:

1. I decide I want to return an item (lets just use Amazon.com as an example)
2. I go to Amazon.com and click on my order history and find the item in question
3. I then attempt to click on the "Return Item" button but it's greyed out and there is a little info box that states "this item cannot be returned because it has been more than 30 days"

If we want to view this from a strict legal perspective I can almost guarantee that a court of law would rule that these set of actions do indeed represent a valid "return attempt" and I have therefore satisfied the Amex T&C's.

[etech0]

What about this?

I decide to return the item
I look at the receipt which says "return policy: 7 days"
I conclude that the item cannot be returned since it's more than 7 days after I purchased it

[jl75]

I actually respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the terms. The T&C does not state that the return attempt must be made with a human being. In fact, it doesn't specify at all what a "return attempt" even consists of.

So here is what I consider to be a valid return attempt:

1. I decide I want to return an item (lets just use Amazon.com as an example)
2. I go to Amazon.com and click on my order history and find the item in question
3. I then attempt to click on the "Return Item" button but it's greyed out and there is a little info box that states "this item cannot be returned because it has been more than 30 days"

If we want to view this from a strict legal perspective I can almost guarantee that a court of law would rule that these set of actions do indeed represent a valid "return attempt" and I have therefore satisfied the Amex T&C's.

I agree with you 100% and it doesn't actually sound like you're disagreeing with what I actually wrote. I may have been talking specifically about brick-and-mortar stores because that's what the OP with the current issue is talking about, a local retailer. But I agree 100% that for major online retailers like Amazon.com, the steps that you've listed (which are probably the same as the rest of us who've ever ended up having to claim something from Amazon.com) fulfill the program description as I quoted in my message that you replied to: "It clearly states that we have to 'try to return' the item and that the 'merchant won't take it back', and it instructs us on how to file a claim 'once you have verified that the merchant will not accept the eligible item.' So how you and I do that via Amazon.com fulfills exactly that: If you want to return and item bought via Amazon.com (and largely the same with eBay and probably a number of other online retailers), you go to your "Orders" page, look for the item in question with the intention of initiating a return. When we see that the item is no longer returnable because the "Returns" option is either greyed out or completely absent, then we've "tried to return", found out that the "merchant won't take it back", and therefore "verified that the merchant will not accept the eligible item". I was specifically addressing brick-and-mortar stores: if you buy something at Walmart or BestBuy or XYZ Toy Store at the local mall, if we were to strictly follow the program description, we haven't actually made a "try to return" or "verified that the merchant will not accept" the return until you've interacted with a human being, whether in person or over the phone. Just looking and seeing that the store's return policy has lapsed doesn't constitute an actual "try to return", in my opinion. I have no background in law so I don't know how any of that would hold up in court, and I have my doubts that AmEx Assurance would really even try to prosecute anything that's not blatant fraud, but my guess would be that if this recent spell of strictness on their part is part of a new policy enforced by the higher-ups at AmEx Assurance, then I have a bad feeling that we'd be on the losing end if we try to argue that we shouldn't have to follow the program description as written out. Probably if push came to shove since they do mention something about evidence that they deem "reasonable", we could argue that asking us to remember the exact date of our return attempt (again, specifically for a brick-and-mortar store) and the name, rank, and serial number of whatever cashier or supervisor we spoke to that day, is simply not "reasonable", because it simply isn't reasonable. I could almost accept them saying, "please get a signed letter from the store manager stating that they won't accept the return", but not this retroactive nonsense of "you must conjure up non-existing evidence from a store visit you made in the past and remember the name of a cashier/supervisor whose name and face you didn't commit to memory and who wouldn't be able to remember you out of the hundreds or thousands of customers they see each day".

[jl75]

What about this?

I decide to return the item
I look at the receipt which says "return policy: 7 days"
I conclude that the item cannot be returned since it's more than 7 days after I purchased it

To me that wouldn't be an actual "try" since you didn't try to return the item, you just read the return policy. That's different from what HoKo noted regarding Amazon.com, because the process of making a return on Amazon.com involves going into your account and looking for the "return" option, and if that's no longer there and it says "Return window closed on January 31, 2024", then that there was your attempt at returning and also your verification that they won't accept the item back. But that's for an online retailer that allows/requires you to do returns online. If the online retailer requires you to call a phone number for approval for a return, then my interpretation would be that you really would have to call that phone number in order for it to count as a "try". Same for a brick-and-mortar store, you'd have to either call them or go into the store in order for it to count as a "try". Of course, what matters isn't so much what the Program Description or the Terms and Conditions say, nor the opinions of customers like us, but what AmEx Assurance actual does in practice. And that's what's really annoying, because they didn't used to make us jump through these hoops, and now all of a sudden, they are. It would have been better if they would have just sent out letters (or included a note in our bills) stating that starting on whatever date, they will be enforcing a new policy and will require solid evidence of a return attempt, photos of the item, and tracking information to prove that the item was delivered. Otherwise, it really isn't fair that they're asking the OP to conjure up evidence after the fact.