Author Topic: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park  (Read 5452 times)

Offline Yosel

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2024, 05:27:14 PM »
How many members are left between Bnei Yehuda, Anshei Sfard, Beth-El, & the shul on 56&11 ?
and shomre amuna 14&51?

Offline TimT

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2024, 05:39:54 PM »
Beth El solid.
I meant besides for Shabbos Mevorchim ;).

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2024, 05:40:13 PM »
How many members are left between Bnei Yehuda, Anshei Sfard, Beth-El, & the shul on 56&11 ?
And Shoimrei HaDas on 53 and 14.

Offline TimT

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2024, 06:02:24 PM »
and shomre amuna 14&51?
And Shoimrei HaDas on 53 and 14.
And on & on. Some of these shuls have a giant lot near it as well sitting empty, besides for sukkos when they use 5% of it.

Offline TimT

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2024, 06:24:18 PM »
There are always new crowds and communities. Need some legal protections to make sure it isn't sold. Absent that, you'll always have someone greedy enough. If you believe the board members approving the sale didn't have any personal gain, I have some bridges to sell you.
Of course they had personal gain. Nobody is saying otherwise. But let’s say you have the legal protections, get landmark status & everything else. Now what ? Just leave it empty & rotting away ?
The people coming in for an early maariv don’t really care if it’s the original shul or a basement under a development.
If these shuls were still full & vibrant they wouldn’t be having these problems.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2024, 06:31:40 PM »
Of course they had personal gain. Nobody is saying otherwise. But let’s say you have the legal protections, get landmark status & everything else. Now what ? Just leave it empty & rotting away ?
The people coming in for an early maariv don’t really care if it’s the original shul or a basement under a development.
If these shuls were still full & vibrant they wouldn’t be having these problems.
Personally it hurts having grown up there. Heard world renowned chazzanim daven there. Had rabbonim chashuvim. Nostalgiabis a killer. I would still take this result over what I saw in manhattan...a shil converted to a movie theater.

Its interesting that I dont have the same sentiment over Temple Emanu-el that Bobov 45 knocked down and is replacing with a massive shul complex.

The sentimental part of me says this was the oldest shul in Boro Park. It should have had some more meaning to people more than all the others mentioned here.
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Offline TimT

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2024, 06:41:32 PM »
Its interesting that I dont have the same sentiment over Temple Emanu-el that Bobov 45 knocked down and is replacing with a massive shul complex.
I totally forgot about that shul. ;D
The sentimental part of me says this was the oldest shul in Boro Park. It should have had some more meaning to people more than all the others mentioned here.
We're talking about a 10-15 year difference ? And this was rather small compared to say Beth-El which is huge & gorgeous & everyone’s been to at some point or other.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2024, 06:49:16 PM »
Of course they had personal gain. Nobody is saying otherwise.

I doubt they would disclose it to the AG.

And this might be where it differs from Bobov, which is clearly a communal benefit (not getting into whether it should or shouldn't have been gutted, just commenting on the motives of the players).
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2024, 06:51:58 PM »
I totally forgot about that shul. ;DWe're talking about a 10-15 year difference ? And this was rather small compared to say Beth-El which is huge & gorgeous & everyone’s been to at some point or other.


Whats not beautiful about this?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2024, 07:03:48 PM »
I guess Boro Park wasn't zoche to have someone like the Rebbe who made every effort to keep every Crown Heights shul alive and active. Unfortunately, not always successful. And unfortunately after ג תמוז it's איש הישר בעיניו יעשה. though with a growing community and minyanim popping up all over, it's not much of an issue nowadays.
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Offline WonderingYid

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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2024, 07:23:26 PM »
I am not familiar with all the details, but in such situations, are the parties truly removed from each other? Do you really think there was no collusion here, stacking the board and padding pockets to get this done? Why would it be in the interest of a Shul board to sell such a shul?

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=8UvbvBYCxPlDdpDTubVe1A==&system=prod

Or if you want to read everything from that point until it went to Beis Din: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASeFiledDocsDetail?county_code=SPOZErrwyDPvCHe%2FaLGCTA%3D%3D&txtIndexNo=iC8E%2FePqvcOW2gbCwjuplw%3D%3D&showMenu=no&isPreRji=N&civilCase=WmZ0R0elwgV3zkfFYSZiQQ%3D%3D

All the name are here 👆🏼
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline WonderingYid

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2024, 07:52:29 PM »
All the name are here 👆🏼
The greed is endless.
Did they really need to develop this property?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2024, 08:28:19 PM »
The greed is endless.
Did they really need to develop this property?

A travesty!

Seeing where greed takes people. I'm actually surprised it wasn't landmarked a long time ago.

I don't envy those involved in the sale.

Gelt über alles!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2024, 09:37:48 PM »
I guess Boro Park wasn't zoche to have someone like the Rebbe who made every effort to keep every Crown Heights shul alive and active. Unfortunately, not always successful. And unfortunately after ג תמוז it's איש הישר בעיניו יעשה. though with a growing community and minyanim popping up all over, it's not much of an issue nowadays.

CH was back in the day a very diversified neighborhood, Bobov, Skulen and lots of others lived there. How did their shuls remain active after they left? Was the Rebbe's efforts focused on buying the shuls and keeping them open?

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2024, 09:43:29 PM »
I think that even though demolishing a building that has served a purpose for so many years and has historical value, the problem really is where the profits of the sale go, if they end up funding the needs of the community or paying for other buildings that serve the community's purpose that's one thing but if individuals with private interests profit off of that that's another
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2024, 10:09:38 PM »
I think that even though demolishing a building that has served a purpose for so many years and has historical value, the problem really is where the profits of the sale go, if they end up funding the needs of the community or paying for other buildings that serve the community's purpose that's one thing but if individuals with private interests profit off of that that's another
What do you think? Of course its the developer thats profiting.
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2024, 10:33:47 PM »
What do you think? Of course its the developer thats profiting.
The developers are profiting off the development, who's profiting off the sale ?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2024, 10:35:54 PM »
CH was back in the day a very diversified neighborhood, Bobov, Skulen and lots of others lived there. How did their shuls remain active after they left? Was the Rebbe's efforts focused on buying the shuls and keeping them open?
Encouraged local residents to daven and/or take over shuls that were "abandoned" by their congregations. This was obviously limited. But in the 80s many of the shtieblach (mostly in the area south of Eastern Parkway that remained (at least partly) Jewish. Some have been renamed and rebuilt by now. One (Kerestir) is unfortunately gone (I remember when the Rebbe went to that mikvah, when the regular mikvah was under repairs). These were mostly shtieblach in what was originally built as two family houses, multi-family building (Kerestir), or mixed-use properties (Skver).

Of the Shuls that were built as Shuls in the first place, Chovevei Torah was converted (initially partially, and later fully) into a Yeshiva building. Young Israel was demolished with condominiums built on top and a shul in the basement/ground floor. Beis Dovid Gershon resisted local Lubavitch residents, and is still controlled by the Rabbi's family that isn't local. Empire Shtieble is probably the most vibrant shul in Crown Heights other than 770.  Yeshiva Reiness is part of Oholei Torah (not sure if there's a balebatishe minyan there on Shabbos & YT any longer. There definitely used to be in the 80s.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 12:28:54 AM by ExGingi »
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2024, 10:37:04 PM »
The developers are profiting off the development, who's profiting off the sale ?

The developer. Bought the property for 3.1 million and will be selling first floor and basement to the congregation for 3 million.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan