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DansDeals Forum => Up In The Air => Topic started by: mliebs1457 on March 10, 2019, 07:41:18 AM

Title: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mliebs1457 on March 10, 2019, 07:41:18 AM
https://loyaltylobby.com/2019/03/10/ethiopian-airlines-boeing-737-max-8-crashes-en-route-to-kenya-157-passengers-crew-dead/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 10, 2019, 08:07:28 AM
This plane frequented TLV
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 10, 2019, 08:08:26 AM
?s=20
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mliebs1457 on March 10, 2019, 08:12:28 AM
The 7M8 is not looking good
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yitrap on March 10, 2019, 09:34:26 AM
?s=09
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: SearchGuy on March 10, 2019, 10:58:36 AM
?s=21
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 10, 2019, 03:46:57 PM
2 Israelis were on board
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 10, 2019, 04:37:55 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-says-he-was-on-ethiopian-jet-days-before-it-crashed-it-had-engine-woes/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 10, 2019, 04:46:04 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 10, 2019, 05:04:57 PM
Is this too insensitive to point out?
https://i.gyazo.com/43108e403574aab4c3299e98b09b7d59.png
https://i.gyazo.com/6480ef9f6f9883ab5baa68e77692c5f2.png
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: LoLo on March 10, 2019, 05:08:13 PM
Not IMO. Some people will always find something to be offended from though.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shwarmabob on March 10, 2019, 05:09:01 PM
Is this too insensitive to point out?
https://i.gyazo.com/43108e403574aab4c3299e98b09b7d59.png
https://i.gyazo.com/6480ef9f6f9883ab5baa68e77692c5f2.png
Jut leave TLV out of it. It's going to look like theyeshivaworld
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 10, 2019, 05:25:02 PM
Is this too insensitive to point out?
https://i.gyazo.com/43108e403574aab4c3299e98b09b7d59.png
https://i.gyazo.com/6480ef9f6f9883ab5baa68e77692c5f2.png
No, but I wouldn't put it in the headline.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 10, 2019, 05:31:00 PM
That's what I was thinking. But what to change it to?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mliebs1457 on March 10, 2019, 05:36:40 PM
Is this too insensitive to point out?
https://i.gyazo.com/43108e403574aab4c3299e98b09b7d59.png
https://i.gyazo.com/6480ef9f6f9883ab5baa68e77692c5f2.png
Can't worry abt that for this story I'd  say
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: KSMH on March 10, 2019, 05:48:36 PM
That's what I was thinking. But what to change it to?
The headline posted is more honest then the one you  orginally wrote.

In this day of age, its important not only to keep headlines honest but also to reflect the actual content of the story and not some unrelated headline grabbing sentence.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Denverite on March 10, 2019, 06:23:44 PM
I know the story mentions Southwest bought some of these planes. Arent these the the ones they are going to use to fly to Hawaii? I think people would want to know about that, especially since those routes have been so hyped recently with their launch.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 10, 2019, 06:48:40 PM
I know the story mentions Southwest bought some of these planes. Arent these the the ones they are going to use to fly to Hawaii? I think people would want to know about that, especially since those routes have been so hyped recently with their launch.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2018/11/28/lion-air-crash-boeing-american-southwest-pilots/2138115002/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yitzyul on March 10, 2019, 08:40:42 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/450452
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ckmk47 on March 10, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
{
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/450452 (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/450452)
Mozeson refers to his 'partner' Israel.
In America today, I find it funny for a guy to use that term without the qualifyer 'business', and then to tell us he's married with children, without mentioning his wife. }
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yandmk on March 10, 2019, 09:10:00 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/450452
With pics and phone interview. Chilling.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on March 10, 2019, 09:14:33 PM

China has grounded all Boeing 737 Max flights, Cayman airlines has suspended all 737 Max operations
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: KSMH on March 10, 2019, 09:17:56 PM
Freind took this flight 2 YRS ago.

Far but frightening.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 10, 2019, 09:20:18 PM
I was gonna fly tomorrow on the 737 MAX 8.. i rebooked on an A321.. I prefer flying on jets not in the news due to their possible crash patterns..
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 10, 2019, 09:24:03 PM
I was gonna fly tomorrow on the 737 MAX 8.. i rebooked on an A321.. I prefer flying on jets not in the news due to their possible crash patterns..
Were you able to change for free?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 10, 2019, 09:26:06 PM
Were you able to change for free?
Booked Friday on Priceline, free cancelation
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 10, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
China has grounded all Boeing 737 Max flights, Cayman airlines has suspended all 737 Max operations
https://onemileatatime.com/china-grounds-737-max/#comment-4139858

This.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 10, 2019, 09:39:44 PM
Chances FAA grounds all 737 Max tomorrow morning? - Remember when they grounded the 787s? LOT Polish had then their inaugural 787 flight to the USA (ORD) and couldn't fly back and had the aircraft sitting at ORD for a month+
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yandmk on March 10, 2019, 09:39:55 PM
With pics and phone interview. Chilling.
Oops. I forgot to attach the link I was referring to... ::)
https://www.vosizneias.com/318544/2019/03/10/jerusalem-isreali-charedi-men-ticketed-for-doomed-flight-grateful-to-be-alive-after-postponing-africa-trip/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yitzyul on March 10, 2019, 09:47:05 PM
How can you tell on United which plane is the 737 max?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 11, 2019, 12:14:35 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/africa/china-boeing-ethiopian-air-crash-intl/index.html
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Emkay on March 11, 2019, 02:04:41 AM
Freind took this flight 2 YRS ago.

Far but frightening.
I flew on this actual crashed ET plane 3 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: miles lover on March 11, 2019, 04:01:01 AM
I flew on this actual crashed ET plane 3 weeks ago.
Wow thats cool and frightening at the same time.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: tzifanya54 on March 11, 2019, 10:59:49 AM
How can you tell on United which plane is the 737 max?
+1
Im assuming this is not the 737-900? Anyone know what United refers to them as?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch Parnes on March 11, 2019, 11:13:59 AM
I flew on this actual crashed ET plane 3 weeks ago.
thats pretty scary   do you get to bentch goimel
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 11, 2019, 11:19:16 AM
thats pretty scary   do you get to bentch goimel
As much as I need to when my pants fell off the clothesline, and luckily I wasn't wearing them.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Emkay on March 11, 2019, 11:23:41 AM
thats pretty scary   do you get to bentch goimel
I don't see why I would.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 11, 2019, 11:25:59 AM
thats pretty scary   do you get to bentch goimel
Not a chance.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 11, 2019, 12:17:23 PM
How can you tell on United which plane is the 737 max?
+1
Im assuming this is not the 737-900? Anyone know what United refers to them as?
United ordered a modified version of the 737MAX, the 9, the two that crashed and the ones AA and SW ordered were 737MAX8, They claim that their version is safe and their pilots were trained how to operate the 9s AoA system, which is faulty on the 8s
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 11, 2019, 02:00:11 PM
How can you tell on United which plane is the 737 max?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/03/11/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopian-airlines-lion-air-southwest-american-travelers-panic/3127692002/

United Airlines doesn't operate the Max 8 but it does have 14 Max 9s. It is telling passengers on Twitter that it will try to find alternative travel arrangements for those who prefer not to fly it
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: tzifanya54 on March 11, 2019, 02:42:55 PM
United ordered a modified version of the 737MAX, the 9, the two that crashed and the ones AA and SW ordered were 737MAX8, They claim that their version is safe and their pilots were trained how to operate the 9s AoA system, which is faulty on the 8s
Thanks whats it called in their system though? Is it the same as the 737-900?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 11, 2019, 02:49:44 PM
Thanks whats it called in their system though? Is it the same as the 737-900?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/thoughts-todays-ethiopian-flight-302-tragedy/#comment-1400704
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 12, 2019, 10:55:16 AM

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 12, 2019, 10:56:07 AM
https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-tracker-map/TK/1969?year=2019&month=3&date=12&flightId=992790160
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 12, 2019, 11:16:59 AM
https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-tracker-map/TK/1969?year=2019&month=3&date=12&flightId=992790160
Any reports as to what is going on?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2019, 11:20:46 AM
Any reports as to what is going on?
Not an emergency landing. It is passing over many airports on its way back.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yochai on March 12, 2019, 11:24:27 AM
Not an emergency landing. It is passing over many airports on its way back.
Probably going back to IST due to new UK restrictions. They may not be allowed to land.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_75280d5aafb82df1b803c8ff1cc42960
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: 12HRS on March 12, 2019, 11:36:52 AM
Probably going back to IST due to new UK restrictions. They may not be allowed to land.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/h_75280d5aafb82df1b803c8ff1cc42960

that's just dumb. plane is already in the air and halfway...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: stooges44 on March 12, 2019, 11:40:36 AM
My sympathies to everyone affected but I can't wait for the movie on this in 5 years or so.

This is literally a plot happening in real time, can you imagine what's doing in the boeing conference room literally as we speak?

Cue the suspenseful music.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2019, 11:48:23 AM
that's just dumb. plane is already in the air and halfway...
So if you were TK operations would you risk having it grounded in the UK for an indefinite length of time?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2019, 11:50:01 AM
Based on the reports of smoke coming out of the back of the ET plane, I doubt it's the same issue as the LionAir crash. The grounding is a knee-jerk (understandable) reaction.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 12, 2019, 12:03:15 PM
I was sitting yesterday at the gate in LGA when an older gentleman walks up to the gate agent whispering with a super serious face: its not the 737 Max were flying today, right?

Gate agent (with a confused smile): No..

Older gentleman: Ok, fine, thank you then turns around and walks away visibly calmer..
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 12, 2019, 12:05:06 PM
Based on the reports of smoke coming out of the back of the ET plane, I doubt it's the same issue as the LionAir crash. The grounding is a knee-jerk (understandable) reaction.
Chinese Trade War

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yelped on March 12, 2019, 12:05:09 PM
::)
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mendyt on March 12, 2019, 12:19:44 PM
DY4545 from Stockholm to Tel Aviv https://fr24.com/NAX4545/1fc6dcb2

This is getting crazier by the minute
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2019, 12:24:19 PM
DY4545 from Stockholm to Tel Aviv https://fr24.com/NAX4545/1fc6dcb2

This is getting crazier by the minute

The question is when will this result in a buying opportunity for BA stock?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Muhammad on March 12, 2019, 12:27:03 PM
DY4545 from Stockholm to Tel Aviv https://fr24.com/NAX4545/1fc6dcb2

This is getting crazier by the minute
??
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mendyt on March 12, 2019, 12:36:19 PM
??

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/0EMrzJ/norwegian-och-tui-stoppar-olycksplanet
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yoohoo on March 12, 2019, 12:38:30 PM

This is literally a plot happening in real time, can you imagine what's doing in the boeing conference room literally as we speak?

Cue the suspenseful music.

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yoohoo on March 12, 2019, 12:41:41 PM
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/0EMrzJ/norwegian-och-tui-stoppar-olycksplanet
"The plane turned over Romania. Why pilots have decided to return to Stockholm Arlanda Airport, is not reported."
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 12, 2019, 01:07:15 PM
https://apnews.com/94c19abef66d4a0e977a1286d779ba22

Domino effect
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2019, 01:10:10 PM
https://apnews.com/94c19abef66d4a0e977a1286d779ba22

Domino effect
Crisis management PR expertise is desperately needed at this point. Can't really say that US airlines excel at that.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: gold on March 12, 2019, 01:22:12 PM
Europe revenge on Boeing.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Something Fishy on March 12, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
https://apnews.com/94c19abef66d4a0e977a1286d779ba22

Domino effect

Yeah, Consumer Reports is who should be telling the airlines what to do. Seems legit.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 12, 2019, 01:31:21 PM
that's just dumb. plane is already in the air and halfway...
They wouldn't be able to take off again...

So far the following countries grounded the plane;
China
Indonesia
Australia
UK
Singapore
Italy
Poland
Austria
Netherlands
Iceland
France
Germany
Ireland

And the following Airlines;
DY(/DI/D8)
AM
ET
AR
KX
MN
ZE
TK
LO

Eyes on;
EASA
FAA
SW
AA

What did I miss?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 12, 2019, 01:34:03 PM
I can't figure out how to make a poll.

If you were booking today, would you pay an extra $100 per ticket to fly a plane other than the 737MAX?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 12, 2019, 01:38:10 PM
The question is when will this result in a buying opportunity for BA stock?
Not just yet IMO, huge risk pending the FAA verdict
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: myi on March 12, 2019, 01:39:42 PM
DY4545 from Stockholm to Tel Aviv https://fr24.com/NAX4545/1fc6dcb2

This is getting crazier by the minute
SWEDEN: An Israeli-bound Norwegian Airlines plane was forced to return to Stockholm, as Boeing 737 MAX jets are being diverted in European skies.

 Anytime frame till these planes are going to be put back into service? Or until they get to the bottom of these two incidents? 
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Mordyk on March 12, 2019, 01:40:49 PM
I can't figure out how to make a poll.

If you were booking today, would you pay an extra $100 per ticket to fly a plane other than the 737MAX?
i would not fly this plane.  my wife hates turbulence and i tell her every time that "planes dont just fall out of the sky"  there goes that ...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 12, 2019, 01:55:37 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/11/airlines-and-agencies-reassure-alarmed-passengers-about-boeing-737-max-8

EU joining in on the grounding and ban
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 12, 2019, 01:56:17 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/737-max-grounded-around-world-except-north-america-heres-need-know/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Proisrael on March 12, 2019, 02:20:47 PM
Money talks in the US and they would never ground it unless there was a story in the US.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 12, 2019, 02:53:13 PM

I think Trump is jealous that his best friend Kim can fly planes and he can't
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Cholentfresser on March 12, 2019, 03:04:38 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/737-max-grounded-around-world-except-north-america-heres-need-know/
What happened to the comments? Looks like they just got cleared out
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Cholentfresser on March 12, 2019, 03:05:46 PM
What happened to the comments? Looks like they just got cleared out
...and they're back. That was weird.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 12, 2019, 03:14:17 PM
What happened to the comments? Looks like they just got cleared out
...and they're back. That was weird.
Glitch in the matrix?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2019, 03:15:44 PM
Crisis management PR expertise is desperately needed at this point. Can't really say that US airlines excel at that.
I remember when the Intel Pentium processor came out and someone found a flaw which would affect 1 in 9b calculations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug) but Intel batched the response terribly. People were saying the reason why they called it the pentium instead of the 586 was because when they added 100 to 486 the result was 585.9999999999999999999
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 12, 2019, 06:34:08 PM
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2019/03/12/boeing-reportedly-asked-the-president-not-to-ground-the-737-max/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 12, 2019, 06:40:20 PM
FAA refusing to ground
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 12, 2019, 11:48:07 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: theyankel on March 12, 2019, 11:53:19 PM
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/03/12/boeing-737-max-8-pilots-complained-feds-months-suspected-safety-flaw
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: lubaby on March 13, 2019, 12:31:58 AM
So if you were TK operations would you risk having it grounded in the UK for an indefinite length of time?
You mean like the Norwegian 737 Max that was stuck in Iran for 2 months?

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-737-stuck/

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-737-leaving-iran/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2019, 01:28:39 AM
You mean like the Norwegian 737 Max that was stuck in Iran for 2 months?

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-737-stuck/

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-737-leaving-iran/
I am guessing that parking at LHR is a little more costly than parking at SYZ. And in this case they had the choice of flying it to its home base.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Proisrael on March 13, 2019, 10:24:24 AM
Just saw from Kol Haolim that no bodies have been found yet....The plane "only" fell around 1600 feet how could there be no bodies?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2019, 10:29:00 AM
Just saw from Kol Haolim that no bodies have been found yet....The plane "only" fell around 1600 feet how could there be no bodies?
Either fake news or burned.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Proisrael on March 13, 2019, 10:34:38 AM
Either fake news or burned.

https://www.reuters.com/article/ethiopia-airplane-bodies/no-bodies-only-small-remains-recovered-from-ethiopia-airlines-crash-site-spokesman-idUSL8N2104S2

Did they not recover bodies from the WTC planes?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 13, 2019, 10:40:56 AM
Just saw from Kol Haolim that no bodies have been found yet....The plane "only" fell around 1600 feet how could there be no bodies?

Full of fuel.  Large hot fire r"l.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/ethiopia-airplane-bodies/no-bodies-only-small-remains-recovered-from-ethiopia-airlines-crash-site-spokesman-idUSL8N2104S2

Did they not recover bodies from the WTC planes?

Not really.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 13, 2019, 11:23:58 AM
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/the-world-pulls-the-andon-cord-on-the-737-max/

Great article on how we got to where we are today with the 737 MAX
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2019, 11:36:33 AM
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/the-world-pulls-the-andon-cord-on-the-737-max/

Great article on how we got to where we are today with the 737 MAX

Thanks for posting. I think Boeing made/is making a PR mistake by not being ahead of all this, suggesting grounding, rather than waiting for regulators.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 11:37:47 AM
Thanks for posting. I think Boeing made/is making a PR mistake by not being ahead of all this, suggesting grounding, rather than waiting for regulators.
It's not going to be grounded.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:02:16 PM
It's not going to be grounded.

Canada grounds 737 Max
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 12:04:44 PM
Talking about the US
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2019, 12:06:08 PM
It's not going to be grounded.

It is already mostly grounded around the world. The US seems to be a tiny sliver of the 7M8 market at this point. It's all about managing PR at this point.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:06:33 PM
Canada grounds 737 Max

Live now
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:07:26 PM
Talking about the US

It is already mostly grounded around the world. The US seems to be a tiny sliver of the 7M8 market at this point. It's all about managing PR at this point.

This is a very interesting point about USA/AA


Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2019, 12:09:21 PM
This is a very interesting point about USA/AA


And we don't even know if any of this had anything to do with the ET302 crash, which based on reports had smoke coming out of it while it was in the sky.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 13, 2019, 12:13:36 PM
It's not going to be grounded.
I can't see how the US will not ground it now based on international and political pressure mounting.

Grounding it would have a big impact on Southwest as they have so many Max planes along with their recent labor issues.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 12:18:55 PM
I can't see how the US will not ground it now based on international and political pressure mounting.

#MAGA
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 12:20:33 PM
It's not going to be grounded.
$5?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:30:42 PM
American vs Canadian MAX's in the skies now
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:47:43 PM
not sure exactly the reason why the FAA doesn't want to ground the MAX while for a fire & no loss of life they grounded the Dreamliner's and didn't even allow ferry flights - LOT Polish had then just landed in ORD after their inaugural 787 flight and couldn't fly back to WAW and the aircraft was stuck in ORD for over 3 months
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2013/01/17/a-bad-night-for-lot-polish-airlines.html
https://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/lot-polish-boeing-reach-agreement-dreamliner-compensation/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 12:49:19 PM
https://onemileatatime.com/norwegian-787-stewart/

Norwegian CEO:
Quote
Many have asked questions about how this affects our financial situation. It is quite obvious that we will not take the course related to the new aircraft that we have to park temporarily. We will send this bill to those who produce this aircraft.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
not sure exactly the reason why the FAA doesn't want to ground the MAX while for a fire & no loss of life they grounded the Dreamliner's and didn't even allow ferry flights - LOT Polish had then just landed in ORD after their inaugural 787 flight and couldn't fly back to WAW and the aircraft was stuck in ORD for over 3 months
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2013/01/17/a-bad-night-for-lot-polish-airlines.html
https://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/lot-polish-boeing-reach-agreement-dreamliner-compensation/
Simple. Dangerous plane vs pilot error.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:52:05 PM


Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
Simple. Dangerous plane vs pilot error.

Who says the Boeing isn't at fault here? - I'm not saying that yes but you seem to have this confirmed that it's definitely the pilots
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
Black Boxes are being sent to Germany, is there no issues involved & ET does NOT want it to go the Washington?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:55:47 PM

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
Who says the Boeing isn't at fault here? - I'm not saying that yes but you seem to have this confirmed that it's definitely the pilots
Boeing is at fault for making MCAS react to just one sensor and I have no idea why only AA has 2 sensors. And Boeing should have better disclosed MCAS.
But pilots should know how to turn off MCAS.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 12:59:13 PM
Boeing is at fault for making MCAS react to just one sensor and I have no idea why only AA has 2 sensors. And Boeing should have better disclosed MCAS.
But pilots should know how to turn off MCAS.

You are reminding me of AF447 - also pilots from a first world society and they didn't override the A/P
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 13, 2019, 01:00:11 PM
Boeing is at fault for making MCAS react to just one sensor and I have no idea why only AA has 2 sensors. And Boeing should have better disclosed MCAS.
But pilots should know how to turn off MCAS.

+1

IMHO there is no excuse for putting a pilot with 200 hours in the cockpit of a commercial airliner.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: theyankel on March 13, 2019, 01:05:40 PM
It's not going to be grounded.
that didnt last long
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
that didnt last long
Link?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: theyankel on March 13, 2019, 01:09:23 PM
Link?
none i was referring to Canada... i'm a betting man and would put money down that within 24 hours FAA will too, if the airlines dont themselves. lots of mounting political pressure. stock seems to be shrugging it off today though
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 01:12:51 PM
that didnt last long
Was referring to US, as I said.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 01:13:06 PM


none i was referring to Canada... i'm a betting man and would put money down that within 24 hours FAA will too, if the airlines dont themselves. lots of mounting political pressure. stock seems to be shrugging it off today though
Since it's been grounded by countries and airlines for the last 24 hours, Dan was clearly referring to the US, as he wrote 2 messages below that.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 01:19:10 PM
Was referring to US, as I said.
How are you so sure that even though they don't think it should be grounded they won't cave to the pressure?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 01:21:08 PM
How are you so sure that even though they don't think it should be grounded they won't cave to the pressure?
Sure? I'm not sure at all, it's an educated guess.
I think they would have done so by now if they were going to ground it. At this point I think they'll stick to their guns. Though if pax stop booking it, airlines may ground it voluntarily.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 13, 2019, 01:32:26 PM
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/the-world-pulls-the-andon-cord-on-the-737-max/

Great article on how we got to where we are today with the 737 MAX

If it was Southwest Airlines and American Airlines and not Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines five months apart, the 737 Max fleet wouldve been grounded by Sunday evening

While true, it isnt hypocrisy per se, pilots professionalism/training probably plays a huge role in these decisions.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 01:33:10 PM
If it was Southwest Airlines and American Airlines and not Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines five months apart, the 737 Max fleet wouldve been grounded by Sunday evening

While true, it isnt hypocrisy per se, pilots professionalism/training probably plays a huge role in these decisions.
AA and WN wouldn't have had a student co-pilot either...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: MeirS on March 13, 2019, 01:41:09 PM
To me it seems pretty simple although I don't think I'm smarter then the authorities in about 40 countries.
The plane was considered airworthy before it was put into service, then there was an accident and as a result the FAA put in guidelines for updated software with a timeframe for Boeing to implement it.

Which additional evidence has been added to the situation as reason to ground the planes? Other then people's emotions going loose and being nervous, there hasn't been a single solid indication that this latest accident is related to the airworthiness of the aircraft.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 13, 2019, 02:27:17 PM
You are reminding me of AF447 - also pilots from a first world society and they didn't override the A/P
actually the A/P disengaged automatically due to invalid data
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 13, 2019, 02:33:06 PM
And then they folded
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: myi on March 13, 2019, 02:34:42 PM
Trump banned all 737 Max 8 and 9.

@CBSNews: BREAKING: President Trump says Boeing 737 Max 8 and 9 planes will be grounded, after two deadly crashes within six https://t.co/0DdBeRX3yI



 @Dan time for an update on your post! ;)
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 02:35:29 PM
$5?
Pay up please.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 02:35:52 PM
It's not going to be grounded.

Grounded
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 02:37:23 PM
Trump banned all 737.

 @Dan time for an update on your post! ;)
Not all 737
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: gingyguy on March 13, 2019, 02:38:02 PM
Not all 737
just the max
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mliebs1457 on March 13, 2019, 02:38:06 PM
Not all 737
Max only obviously
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 13, 2019, 02:38:13 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: zale on March 13, 2019, 02:48:31 PM
To me it seems pretty simple although I don't think I'm smarter then the authorities in about 40 countries.
The plane was considered airworthy before it was put into service, then there was an accident and as a result the FAA put in guidelines for updated software with a timeframe for Boeing to implement it.

Which additional evidence has been added to the situation as reason to ground the planes? Other then people's emotions going loose and being nervous, there hasn't been a single solid indication that this latest accident is related to the airworthiness of the aircraft.

Europe wants Boeing to fail. Airbus is a very important part of their industry. Thats why.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: theyankel on March 13, 2019, 02:53:22 PM
@Dan pay up please too  :)
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 02:54:46 PM
Lol, where did I offer money?

Interesting that this took an executive order and wasn't initiated by the FAA.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: stooges44 on March 13, 2019, 02:55:15 PM
My sympathies to everyone affected but I can't wait for the movie on this in 5 years or so.

This is literally a plot happening in real time, can you imagine what's doing in the boeing conference room literally as we speak?

Cue the suspenseful music.

And the plot thickens...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: theyankel on March 13, 2019, 02:56:16 PM
Lol, where did I offer money?

Interesting that this took an executive order and wasn't initiated by the FAA.
it was my way of gloating.
also cause i was looking for a HT on the UK ban and didnt get one :)
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: MeirS on March 13, 2019, 03:14:44 PM
To me it seems pretty simple although I don't think I'm smarter then the authorities in about 40 countries.
The plane was considered airworthy before it was put into service, then there was an accident and as a result the FAA put in guidelines for updated software with a timeframe for Boeing to implement it.

Which additional evidence has been added to the situation as reason to ground the planes? Other then people's emotions going loose and being nervous, there hasn't been a single solid indication that this latest accident is related to the airworthiness of the aircraft.
Any reasoning and explanation as to why exactly this plane was grounded in the US?
Maybe I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 03:17:53 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ludmila on March 13, 2019, 03:22:14 PM
Europe wants Boeing to fail. Airbus is a very important part of their industry. Thats why.
Airbus is a strong competitor to BA,I think it was China who first announced this, then the UK followed by Europe and now the US, but in this case it is a good decision to ground the 737 Max till they have more info.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 03:23:41 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: 12HRS on March 13, 2019, 03:29:32 PM
Pay up please.

I don't think you understand how bets work
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 03:31:39 PM
not sure exactly the reason why the FAA doesn't want to ground the MAX while for a fire & no loss of life they grounded the Dreamliner's and didn't even allow ferry flights - LOT Polish had then just landed in ORD after their inaugural 787 flight and couldn't fly back to WAW and the aircraft was stuck in ORD for over 3 months
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2013/01/17/a-bad-night-for-lot-polish-airlines.html
https://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/lot-polish-boeing-reach-agreement-dreamliner-compensation/

Seems like ferry flights are allowed now
https://www.flightradar24.com/WJA8989
https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA7051
https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA7071

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 03:35:34 PM
Lol, where did I offer money?
I don't think you understand how bets work
This is a joke.
$5?
and so is this.
Pay up please.
This is abusing my joke.
@Dan pay up please too  :)

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 03:37:48 PM
from twitter - UA1273 seems like the first flight to be affected by the US grounding, flight was taxing
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: MeirS on March 13, 2019, 03:39:39 PM
Seems like ferry flights are allowed now
https://www.flightradar24.com/WJA8989
https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA7051
https://www.flightradar24.com/ACA7071
AC7071 seems to be taking a somewhat indirect route to stay over land. Not sure what that would help if the issue is with the sensor.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 03:44:00 PM
AC7071 seems to be taking a somewhat indirect route to stay over land. Not sure what that would help if the issue is with the sensor.

if it crashes they should at-least have evidence and not have to go fish in the ocean
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 13, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 03:52:52 PM


AC7071 seems to be taking a somewhat indirect route to stay over land. Not sure what that would help if the issue is with the sensor.
if it crashes they should at-least have evidence and not have to go fish in the ocean
Seems extreme, unless this evidence is worse than expected
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 13, 2019, 03:57:15 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/canada-grounds-boeing-737-max-8-leaving-us-as-last-major-user-of-plane/2019/03/13/25ac2414-459d-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.00ba4e950f73

Quote
Trumps announcement followed one by Canadas transportation minister grounding all the jets, saying a review of satellite-tracking data by his countrys experts found similarities between Sundays crash of an Ethiopian Airlines jet and an October Lion Air crash.

Seems like they found some new evidence around making the move.

https://ottawasun.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/newsalert-garneau-orders-grounding-of-all-boeing-737-max-8s-over-safety-concerns/wcm/cb1c852a-6804-406e-8e32-6d535291d6bf
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 03:58:51 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/canada-grounds-boeing-737-max-8-leaving-us-as-last-major-user-of-plane/2019/03/13/25ac2414-459d-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.00ba4e950f73

Seems like they found some new evidence around making the move.

https://ottawasun.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/newsalert-garneau-orders-grounding-of-all-boeing-737-max-8s-over-safety-concerns/wcm/cb1c852a-6804-406e-8e32-6d535291d6bf

As I posted earlier today

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 04:15:54 PM
Black Boxes are being sent to Germany, is there no issues involved & ET does NOT want it to go the Washington?

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 13, 2019, 04:51:20 PM
Stock shrugs

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Something Fishy on March 13, 2019, 04:52:18 PM

This is so strange.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 04:53:45 PM
from twitter - UA1273 seems like the first flight to be affected by the US grounding, flight was taxing

Quote
Status: We're sorry for returning to the gate. Your flight is delayed because of a recent order by the Federal Aviation Administration to ground all 737 MAX aircraft. We are working on options to get you on your way.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 13, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
This is so strange.

Quote
This is a new type of aircraft with a new black box, with new software. We cant do it, BFU spokesman Germout Freitag said.

Seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Something Fishy on March 13, 2019, 04:56:49 PM
Seems reasonable.

So why was it sent there in the first place?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 13, 2019, 04:58:27 PM
So why was it sent there in the first place?

ET are worried that US is biased and will lean towards pilot error?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 05:01:46 PM
ET are worried that US is biased and will lean towards pilot error?
I understand why ET might be worried, but Germany/EU are biased as well.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 13, 2019, 05:02:23 PM
I understand why ET might be worried, but Germany/EU are biased as well.
In ETs favor.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 05:03:41 PM
In ETs favor.
That's what I meant to say.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 05:13:22 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Yehudaa on March 13, 2019, 05:27:01 PM
Hearing reports that AC isn't covering hotels or anything else for those stranded by cancelled 737 Max flights. Are any airlines, or is this all outside of what they have to cover?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 13, 2019, 05:35:30 PM

Seems like France will do it

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 05:43:41 PM
Seems like France will do it

Even worse...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 13, 2019, 06:22:40 PM
Even worse...
Im actually happy about it.. we fly on these things everyday, I dont mind Boeing being under the highest level of scrutiny.. Ill save my patriotism for July 4.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 13, 2019, 06:26:15 PM
Stock shrugs
The only risk still out there is that this temporary ban will turn into a permanent ban, which is a very small risk, which is probably why the stock is unchanged on the news today.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on March 13, 2019, 06:29:04 PM
Im actually happy about it.. we fly on these things everyday, I dont mind Boeing being under the highest level of scrutiny.. Ill save my patriotism for July 4.
I can say the same argument in reverse.

We have to know that pilots around the world are trained well, and not have an investigation that's biased against Boeing.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 13, 2019, 06:33:58 PM
Im actually happy about it.. we fly on these things everyday, I dont mind Boeing being under the highest level of scrutiny.. Ill save my patriotism for July 4.
I can say the same argument in reverse.

We have to know that pilots around the world are trained well, and not have a biased investigation against Boeing.
Both fair points.
I guess a fair investigation would cut it.
Title: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 13, 2019, 06:49:57 PM
I can say the same argument in reverse.

We have to know that pilots around the world are trained well, and not have an investigation that's biased against Boeing.
Agree, US pilots appear to be better trained, more professional, older, and with more flight hours, but all reports indicate that Boeing neglected safety precautions to get the Max approved and up in the air, including avoiding to retrain pilots -even US pilots- on how to deal with the Max 8-9 specific issues that brought these aircrafts down..  even good pilots are only as good as the equipment theyre handed..
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: 12HRS on March 13, 2019, 09:31:41 PM
This is padding my post count.

FTFY and maybe me   :P
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 13, 2019, 10:38:11 PM
Seems like France will do it

home of Airbus
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 14, 2019, 04:07:42 AM
Thanks for posting. I think Boeing made/is making a PR mistake by not being ahead of all this, suggesting grounding, rather than waiting for regulators.
Now Boeing is trying to fix things by botching it more, taking credit for the grounding of the planes.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 14, 2019, 09:34:29 AM
Now Boeing is trying to fix things by botching it more, taking credit for the grounding of the planes.
Yeah, it's pretty comical. The minute the US issues the order they come out with the statement. Are you kidding me?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 14, 2019, 10:10:06 AM
Yeah, it's pretty comical. The minute the US issues the order they come out with the statement. Are you kidding me?
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-13/boeing-and-the-faa-737-max-grounding-damage-is-already

I guess its the difference between being in a competitive market to one of a duopoly (with heavy outside influences, such as political considerations).
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 14, 2019, 11:06:42 AM
This guy doesn't even know the name of FlightRadar24 (mark 7:30)
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: zagguru on March 14, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
So what is AA flying between LGA and MIA in place of the max?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Muhammad on March 14, 2019, 01:05:11 PM
So what is AA flying between LGA and MIA in place of the max?
you can check on flight stats
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: zagguru on March 14, 2019, 01:16:16 PM
you can check on flight stats

They are all still showing the Max
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Muhammad on March 14, 2019, 01:20:41 PM
They are all still showing the Max
just noticed that as well, I guess ill check AA.com for tomorrow's flight, unless they have something today for the 737MAX
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2019, 07:47:08 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2019/03/dont-ground-the-airplanes-ground-the-pilots/584941/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 15, 2019, 02:20:47 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2019/03/dont-ground-the-airplanes-ground-the-pilots/584941/

Quote
Yet, as far as I can tell, the NY Times has not run a single story on this that has not been authored by either Reuters or the AP. This is incredibly disturbing, as it strongly suggests a primary interest in body count and sensationalism, as opposed to genuine public interest.

Shock!
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 15, 2019, 08:03:05 AM
just noticed that as well, I guess ill check AA.com for tomorrow's flight, unless they have something today for the 737MAX
got this email from them

A message from American Airlines

Yesterday, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) temporarily grounded all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, including the 24 MAX aircraft operated by American. We have complied with the directive, which does not apply to our fleet of Boeing 737-800 aircraft.

Teams throughout the airline have been working tirelessly to minimize the impact to you, our customers. We appreciate your patience and understanding with us during this busy travel period, and we apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.

American is working in close coordination with the Department of Transportation, FAA, National Transportation Safety Board and other regulatory authorities, in addition to our union leaders and Boeing, to closely monitor the accident investigation into the crash of Ethiopian Airlines flight 302. American regularly monitors aircraft performance and safety parameter data across our entire fleet, which is operated and maintained by our highly-experienced and well-trained team, contributing to Americans exemplary safety record.

Whether youre traveling with us today, this week or this year, be assured the safety and security of our customers and team members is always our top priority and we will never operate an unsafe aircraft. Thank you for your continued confidence in American and in our 130,000 team members.

Thank you for flying with us.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 15, 2019, 08:49:56 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/03/14/trump-wanted-his-personal-pilot-head-faa-critical-job-is-still-vacant-amid-boeing-fallout/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 15, 2019, 10:33:19 AM
FAAs close ties to Boeing questioned after 2 deadly crashes (https://www.apnews.com/c6f08e5ff1264d909cd31914dc223f34)
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Ephraimh on March 15, 2019, 01:04:29 PM
From the Airline Crisis manual:

When in need of extra planes (due to groundings etc.), you find areas with civil unrest, and cancel those flights
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yelped on March 15, 2019, 01:05:50 PM
From the Airline Crisis manual:

When in need of extra planes (due to groundings etc.), you find areas with civil unrest, and cancel those flights
Lol. I'm surprised it wasn't suspended until now.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2019, 01:25:31 PM
Lol. I'm surprised it wasn't suspended until now.
+1
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2019, 02:29:00 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/hero-pilot-who-landed-plane-in-hudson-river-blasts-pilot-training-in-wake-of-ethiopian-airlines-crash
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2019, 12:30:00 PM
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/17/704223209/mass-funeral-held-for-ethiopian-airlines-crash-victims-as-investigation-continue

Empty coffins.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 17, 2019, 01:30:43 PM
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/17/704223209/mass-funeral-held-for-ethiopian-airlines-crash-victims-as-investigation-continue

Empty coffins.
weird
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2019, 01:44:37 PM
weird
What's weird?

People want to hang onto something for some sense of closure. Something similar was done with an Israeli soldier (assumed) killed in Gaza (and IINM also post 9/11). Unfortunately, there's nothing more that can be given to the families.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 18, 2019, 01:02:09 PM

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on March 18, 2019, 06:15:28 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/trevorsumner/status/1106934362531155974
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2019, 06:24:37 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/trevorsumner/status/1106934362531155974

Very well written. This needs to get more headlines.

I like the last paragraph about the software. Happens all the time all over, things are done wrong, and then a (software) bandaid put in place to compensate, rather than fixing the root problem.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 19, 2019, 12:07:44 AM
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-did-the-faa-allow-the-boeing-737-max-to-fly
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 19, 2019, 08:12:45 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-19/how-an-extra-man-in-cockpit-saved-a-737-max-that-later-crashed
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: brodes18 on March 19, 2019, 09:49:29 PM
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-did-the-faa-allow-the-boeing-737-max-to-fly
Great read, albeit a sad ending to what seems to put the blame on Boeing and the FAA.

Let Boeing certify their plane, good idea...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on March 19, 2019, 10:58:01 PM
It may seem a little childish and oversimplified but I feel like with all this new technology taking the place of the good ol human brain, the risk of accidents increase. Similar to my car , which ironically almost made me crash a few times due to the crash mitigating sensors built in.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: KSMH on March 20, 2019, 03:45:17 PM
Almost like trump's argument.

In this case, early reports do indicate technology played a role.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: skyguy918 on March 20, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
It may seem a little childish and oversimplified but I feel like with all this new technology taking the place of the good ol human brain, the risk of accidents increase. Similar to my car , which ironically almost made me crash a few times due to the crash mitigating sensors built in.
Almost like trump's argument.

In this case, early reports do indicate technology played a role.
Except there's mountains of data supporting the fact that technology has made auto and air travel safer. So the answer is to keep improving technology, not abandon it.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Yehudaa on March 21, 2019, 05:47:28 AM
"Air Canada has announced it will ground its Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets until at least 1st July 2019. In an effort to ensure a degree of certainty for its passengers, it is removing the aircraft from all schedules, whether it comes back into service before this date or not."

https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-737-max-flights-ban/amp/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 21, 2019, 11:21:23 AM
https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2019/03/21/ethiopian-airlines-737-max-8-simulator/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on March 21, 2019, 01:07:07 PM
https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2019/03/21/ethiopian-airlines-737-max-8-simulator/
Fake news?



Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: confu on March 24, 2019, 04:47:09 PM
Question: My flight wasnt scheduled to be on a MAX. Why has it been canceled?
Answer: A flight that was not scheduled as a MAX flight might be canceled to enable our team to cover a MAX route with a different aircraft. Our goal is to minimize the impact to the smallest number of customers.
am I reading this wrong? or is this AAwful customer service
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Boruch999 on March 24, 2019, 05:31:38 PM
Question: My flight wasnt scheduled to be on a MAX. Why has it been canceled?
Answer: A flight that was not scheduled as a MAX flight might be canceled to enable our team to cover a MAX route with a different aircraft. Our goal is to minimize the impact to the smallest number of customers.
am I reading this wrong? or is this AAwful customer service

They clearly mean to say "to limit the impact to the smallest number of customers possible" and I'm pretty sure the language they used says that.  You may be reading it " Our goal is to minimize the impact for the smallest number of customers"  but that is not what it says.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 27, 2019, 03:09:53 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/boeing-unveils-737-max-fixes-says-planes-are-safer.html
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mend89 on March 31, 2019, 03:41:45 AM
ELAL flight 385 Apr 30 TLV-FCO shows 'Boeing 737-900' is that the MAX? is it safe?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ludmila on March 31, 2019, 03:49:32 AM
ELAL flight 385 Apr 30 TLV-FCO shows 'Boeing 737-900' is that the MAX? is it safe?
No, not MAX.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: mend89 on March 31, 2019, 10:23:46 AM
No, not MAX.
Thanks
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on April 03, 2019, 07:39:12 AM
Boeing is at fault for making MCAS react to just one sensor and I have no idea why only AA has 2 sensors. And Boeing should have better disclosed MCAS.
But pilots should know how to turn off MCAS.

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shapsam on April 03, 2019, 08:11:49 AM
...after switching the MACS back on
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on April 03, 2019, 02:31:34 PM
It may seem a little childish and oversimplified but I feel like with all this new technology taking the place of the good ol human brain, the risk of accidents increase. Similar to my car , which ironically almost made me crash a few times due to the crash mitigating sensors built in.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-software-idUSKCN1RF0YU
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on April 11, 2019, 02:16:03 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-11/boeing-has-called-737-max-8-not-suitable-for-certain-airports?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on April 15, 2019, 08:53:22 AM
Good morning Sir

Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on April 15, 2019, 08:55:52 AM
Well he certainly knows about Trump Airlines...
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on April 15, 2019, 12:24:31 PM
Well he certainly knows about Trump Airlines Shuttle...
FTFY
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on April 15, 2019, 12:36:40 PM
FTFY
https://www.cnn.com/videos/media/2019/03/14/conan-trump-airlines-parody-ad-vpx.team-coco
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on April 15, 2019, 03:41:01 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Naftuli19 on April 30, 2019, 05:07:36 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: skyguy918 on May 01, 2019, 01:50:42 PM

He did go a little more in depth, but Vox beat him to the punch on this one (the video one post above). All the bullet points are essentially the same.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2019, 10:45:18 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/04/29/should-boeing-commit-to-new-797-nma-now-while-addressing-737-max-issues/#22f234986bd2
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Naftuli19 on May 03, 2019, 10:55:16 AM
He did go a little more in depth, but Vox beat him to the punch on this one (the video one post above). All the bullet points are essentially the same.
i personally like the way Wendover speaks and explains things, tho thay both got straight to the point.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on May 16, 2019, 11:40:17 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Proisrael on May 21, 2019, 08:42:17 AM
Boeing shares rise after report that a bird strike may have caused 737 Max crash. CNBC

Wow
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on May 29, 2019, 08:39:06 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-29/long-before-crash-ethiopian-air-pilot-warned-bosses-of-dangers
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Something Fishy on June 17, 2019, 04:50:52 PM
There you go, issue resolved.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-17/boeing-says-it-s-open-to-name-change-for-grounded-737-max-jet
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on June 20, 2019, 07:15:16 AM
Scary stuff.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-20/fight-for-survival-on-doomed-jet-came-down-to-two-cockpit-wheels?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on June 24, 2019, 11:56:10 PM
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: chff on July 01, 2019, 11:06:16 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: yelped on July 01, 2019, 11:12:34 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers
Here's your answer.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Something Fishy on July 01, 2019, 11:38:27 AM
https://www.cnet.com/news/doj-is-expanding-its-boeing-737-max-investigation-to-the-dreamliner-report-says/
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on August 14, 2019, 02:05:12 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-14/expat-pilot-turns-self-styled-whistle-blower-after-737-max-crash?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on September 25, 2019, 01:02:38 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/24/federal-investigators-faas-boeing-737-max-inspectors-were-underqualified.html
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on September 27, 2019, 12:50:55 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-27/silkair-cleared-to-fly-boeing-737-max-to-australia-for-storage

Quote
In one California facility, the cost of storage runs to about $2,000 a month for a plane, according to an industry veteran.

That doesn't sound expensive to me.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Luvisrael on October 03, 2019, 02:51:44 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-cheaper-safety-system-737-max-engineer-complaint-nytimes-2019-10
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shaulyaakov on October 31, 2019, 08:48:10 AM
https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RoZS1kYWlseQ&episode=Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwL2s0RmpRQ3BENlMwd1BSWDA2U0JHUDZVbmhaRUtyU21jNFBHOC1sTVV

Not sure how Boeing ever recovers from this.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: aygart on October 31, 2019, 12:50:05 PM
https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYXJ0MTkuY29tL3RoZS1kYWlseQ&episode=Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwL2s0RmpRQ3BENlMwd1BSWDA2U0JHUDZVbmhaRUtyU21jNFBHOC1sTVV

Not sure how Boeing ever recovers from this.

Ask the expert :P

Good morning Sir


Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: shaulyaakov on October 31, 2019, 12:55:29 PM
Forget about branding for the MAX.

Evidently, concerns about the MAX/MCAS system were reported internally as early as 2015, as well as after the LionAir crash. Even if we're willing to absolve Boeing, it's a travesty that they didn't take the MCAS problems seriously after the 1st crash. I think executives should be tried criminally for this.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: Dan on October 31, 2019, 12:59:33 PM
Forget about branding for the MAX.

Evidently, concerns about the MAX/MCAS system were reported internally as early as 2015, as well as after the LionAir crash. Even if we're willing to absolve Boeing, it's a travesty that they didn't take the MCAS problems seriously after the 1st crash. I think executives should be tried criminally for this.
If a US airplane went down they surely would be.
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: ExGingi on October 31, 2019, 02:21:51 PM
If a US airplane went down they surely would be.

Which makes this all the more of a travesty. Are non-US lives cheaper?
Title: Re: Ethiopian Airlines 737 crash. 150+ dead
Post by: gingyguy on October 31, 2019, 03:23:42 PM
Which makes this all the more of a travesty. Are non-US lives cheaper?
+1 it's not so much as the American lives they value it's more likely they realize that if there wouldn't be criminal charges, were such an incident to happen in America, they would be voted out of a job