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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 04:54:13 PM

Title: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 04:54:13 PM
So last night the Mir held their annual dinner and it got me thinking: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Obviously many people have tremendous Hakaras Hatov for the years they spent there.
But the Mir has changed radically with the passing of Reb Nosson Tzvi ZATZAL. It's under new management. The warmth, the achdus and the feeling of being part of something, that existed 10 years ago, just isn't the same today.
As it no longer has an open-door policy, many of those that attended the dinner last night wouldn't get accepted if they would be 22 today. And many of their sons won't be getting in when they become of age.
Rabbi Beinstock was shown the door. Reb Nissan Kaplan left as well, I'm not sure exactly why.
They both opened their own yeshivos.
Rav Berel Whitman was also told to leave, but I hear they let him back quietly.


True, they have thousands of people learning all day. But so do Chevron, Ponevezh and many other yeshivos.
And there are American yeshivos in EY like Eichenstein's, Feivelsohns, Rubenstien's, Yagdil, Reb Dovid, Reb Sholom Shechter.....
Why not support them?
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: thankyoudan on April 08, 2019, 05:02:15 PM
First part so true . Ppl don't really look what's going on today they just feel connected to what it once was. Plus all the prestige and all that comes with it +++. Also shows how strong a brand is, even if the quality isn't that great the brand just powers thru. About all the ppl who left or etc. That's not important info. As mentioned below.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: YitzyS on April 08, 2019, 05:05:08 PM
I have no connection to the Mir, but I would ask a Rabbi before posting such a post, as it may be Loshon Hara in it's finest form and may cause irreparable damage.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 05:12:46 PM
+1000 well put. Ppl don't really look what's going on today they just feel connected to what it once was. Plus all the prestige and all that comes with it +++. Also shows how strong a brand is, even if the quality isn't that great the brand just powers thru.
True, this is an example of a broader problem where people send their kids to legacy Yeshivas that have very strong pasts and were led by Gedolim in the past, but are currently failing many bochurim as the leadership is out of touch with the current needs of today's generation.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: daybyday on April 08, 2019, 05:14:23 PM
Don't know much about the mir today in comparison to the past, but wow this post screams lashon hara.

Why would someone be distraught because people contribute to a Yeshiva?
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 05:17:01 PM
Don't know much about the mir today in comparison to the past, but wow this post screams lashon hara.

Why would someone be distraught because people contribute to a Yeshiva?
Let's see how distraught all these people are when their kids don't get in. They'll regret every penny they ever donated.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: Caliaravos on April 08, 2019, 05:34:34 PM
So last night the Mir held their annual dinner and it got me thinking: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Obviously many people have tremendous Hakaras Hatov for the years they spent there.
But the Mir has changed radically with the passing of Reb Nosson Tzvi ZATZAL. It's under new management. The warmth, the achdus and the feeling of being part of something, that existed 10 years ago, just isn't the same today.
As it no longer has an open-door policy, many of those that attended the dinner last night wouldn't get accepted if they would be 22 today. And many of their sons won't be getting in when they become of age.
Rabbi Beinstock was shown the door. Reb Nissan Kaplan left as well, I'm not sure exactly why.
They both opened their own yeshivos.
Rav Berel Whitman was also told to leave, but I hear they let him back quietly.


True, they have thousands of people learning all day. But so do Chevron, Ponevezh and many other yeshivos.
And there are American yeshivos in EY like Eichenstein's, Feivelsohns, Rubenstien's, Yagdil, Reb Dovid, Reb Sholom Shechter.....
Why not support them?
Did you attend the dinner?
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 08, 2019, 05:36:01 PM
It's all about image and ego. The Mir is the only "top" Israeli yeshiva for Chutznikim to make a dinner. If Brisk (any of them) would do this, with the Rosh Yeshivah in attendance in America, it would be a grand slam that would dwarf Mir by 1,000 to one.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: real-brisker on April 08, 2019, 05:47:52 PM
This thread belongs in YWN CR 
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: mirguy on April 08, 2019, 05:50:18 PM
I agree 100 percent with what knowitall is saying (for once )
I do not like how they cleaned house with rebbeim who wouldn't kiss the ring

Aslo I first hand dealt with the unfair policies when I took a faher sorry I'm not rechnitz

I also want to add that if a rebbi in the yeshiva doesn't care enough to call when you have a baby or get married or make time when the rebbi comes in to America DONT ASK ME FOR MONEY

Also relevant username I know

Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: grodnoking on April 08, 2019, 05:59:45 PM
Let's see how distraught all these people are when their kids don't get in. They'll regret every penny they ever donated.
Why do you think they are donating? It's the only way to get your kid in.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: YitzyS on April 08, 2019, 06:10:20 PM
There is nothing wrong (perhaps) with someone losing favor for a Yeshiva and stopping to donate. Airing the grievances on a public forum is something else entirely. I would advise you delete the posts, or get a rabbi on board.

Again, I have absolutely no connection to the yeshiva. My position is solely as an Orthodox Jew.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: stooges44 on April 08, 2019, 06:51:24 PM
There is nothing wrong (perhaps) with someone losing favor for a Yeshiva and stopping to donate. Airing the grievances on a public forum is something else entirely. I would advise you delete the posts, or get a rabbi on board.

Again, I have absolutely no connection to the yeshiva. My position is solely as an Orthodox Jew.

+1000

I also have nothing to do with the mir but this thread is stooping to VIN levels.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 08, 2019, 06:53:15 PM


+1000

I also have nothing to do with the mir but this thread is stooping to VIN levels.

Nuuu you can't bash VIN
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 07:01:40 PM
There is nothing wrong (perhaps) with someone losing favor for a Yeshiva and stopping to donate. Airing the grievances on a public forum is something else entirely. I would advise you delete the posts, or get a rabbi on board.

Again, I have absolutely no connection to the yeshiva. My position is solely as an Orthodox Jew.
Iím not complaining about the Mir.
Iím asking how dumb can their American donors be?
Why give money today based on the Mir legacy or Reb Nosson Tzvi? Heck, even the older faculty of the Mir thatís still alive are being overrun by certain younger ppl.
(@YitzyS I wonít mention names as I donít believe that is right.)

The bottom line is:
If you like the way the current administration is running the ship, then by all means, donate.
But give your tzedaka elsewhere if you liked Rí Nosson Tzvi or the way he ran the Mir, because that place no longer exists.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: skyguy918 on April 08, 2019, 07:55:38 PM
Iím not complaining about the Mir.
Iím asking how dumb can their American donors be?
Why give money today based on the Mir legacy or Reb Nosson Tzvi? Heck, even the older faculty of the Mir thatís still alive are being overrun by certain younger ppl.
(@YitzyS I wonít mention names as I donít believe that is right.)

The bottom line is:
If you like the way the current administration is running the ship, then by all means, donate.
But give your tzedaka elsewhere if you liked Rí Nosson Tzvi or the way he ran the Mir, because that place no longer exists.
"I'm not complaint about Mir."
...
[Proceeds to complain about Mir.]
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 08, 2019, 07:58:38 PM
"I'm not complaint about Mir."
...
[Proceeds to complain about Mir.]
#Fakenews.
All he's saying is the Mir of today is not the Mir of yesteryear, and I have yet to find someone who disagrees.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: Yammer on April 08, 2019, 08:00:47 PM
@mods

 can this thread just be deleted...
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: skyguy918 on April 08, 2019, 08:01:12 PM
#Fakenews.
All he's saying is the Mir of today is not the Mir of yesteryear, and I have yet to find someone who disagrees.
No, he's saying it's not the Mir of yesteryear, and therefore don't donate.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 08, 2019, 08:04:00 PM


No, he's saying it's not the Mir of yesteryear, and therefore don't donate on that assumption
FTFY
no complaining there.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: skyguy918 on April 08, 2019, 08:11:26 PM
FTFY
no complaining there.
That's not what he wrote though.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yitzgar on April 08, 2019, 08:29:11 PM
Why is it anyone's business what other people donate to. If you don't like it, don't give money. No reason to stop other people. Not to mention the lashon hara that's probably involved here, there are probably many organizations/mosdos/tzedakas that ppl have assumptions about, and the op didn't feel the need to "enlighten" everyone about all of them. He obviously has a bone to pick, and it looks childish and pathetic to do it on a public forum. Plenty of people have been rubbed the wr9ng way by different mosdos, and most do not feel the need to announce it to the world.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 08:48:20 PM
Why is it anyone's business what other people donate to. If you don't like it, don't give money. No reason to stop other people. Not to mention the lashon hara that's probably involved here, there are probably many organizations/mosdos/tzedakas that ppl have assumptions about, and the op didn't feel the need to "enlighten" everyone about all of them. He obviously has a bone to pick, and it looks childish and pathetic to do it on a public forum. Plenty of people have been rubbed the wr9ng way by different mosdos, and most do not feel the need to announce it to the world.
Sorry buddy, you missed the point.
This isn't about bashing random mosdos.
I'm calling attention to the fact the Mir is UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT. And few people have realized.
If you like the new management, then no problem, go ahead with business as usual.




Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yitzgar on April 08, 2019, 08:53:40 PM
Sorry buddy, you missed the point.
This isn't about bashing random mosdos.
I'm calling attention to the fact the Mir is UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT. And few people have realized.
If you like the new management, then no problem, go ahead with business as usual.
If you read my post you will notice that I mentioned that there are many mosdos that people donate to that aren't run exactly the way people would want if they knew. It's not your job to "enlighten" us all.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on April 08, 2019, 08:57:10 PM
If you read my post you will notice that I mentioned that there are many mosdos that people donate to that aren't run exactly the way people would want if they knew. It's not your job to "enlighten" us all.
What exactly is your issue? The Mir had a massive dinner last night and he mentioned they have undergone a significant change that people are not aware of.


You think he now has to make a comprehensive list?
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yitzgar on April 08, 2019, 08:58:32 PM
What exactly is your issue? The Mir had a massive dinner last night and he mentioned they have undergone a significant change that people are not aware of.


You think he now has to make a comprehensive list?
No, I'm pointing out that it's not anyone's business to write what he wrote in the op
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: mmgfarb on April 08, 2019, 09:10:09 PM
No, I'm pointing out that it's not anyone's business to write what he wrote in the op
Why not?
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: AussieMan on April 08, 2019, 09:16:45 PM
The mir of yesteryear also wasn't the mir of r' nochum's days.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 08, 2019, 09:21:33 PM
The mir of yesteryear also wasn't the mir of r' nochum's days.
Absolutely. So if you're looking to support a Yeshiva like Reb Nochums you wouldn't have supported the Mir 30 years ago. Now that there was another makeover...
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: Yammer on April 08, 2019, 09:29:23 PM
Why is it anyone's business what other people donate to. If you don't like it, don't give money. No reason to stop other people. Not to mention the lashon hara that's probably involved here, there are probably many organizations/mosdos/tzedakas that ppl have assumptions about, and the op didn't feel the need to "enlighten" everyone about all of them. He obviously has a bone to pick, and it looks childish and pathetic to do it on a public forum. Plenty of people have been rubbed the wr9ng way by different mosdos, and most do not feel the need to announce it to the world.

+

What exactly is your issue? The Mir had a massive dinner last night and he mentioned they have undergone a significant change that people are not aware of.


You think he now has to make a comprehensive list?


Why not?

The Common denominator is trying to get ppl not to donate to the Mir.

Disclaimer: I never did "the Mir" or know a whole lot about it. But targeting a specific Yeshiva, when this is an issue with 90% of Yeshivas in the World seems like there's a story behind this.


True, they have thousands of people learning all day. But so do Chevron, Ponevezh and many other yeshivos.
And there are American yeshivos in EY like Eichenstein's, Feivelsohns, Rubenstien's, Yagdil, Reb Dovid, Reb Sholom Shechter.....
Why not support them?



Let's see how distraught all these people are when their kids don't get in. They'll regret every penny they ever donated.

Iím asking how dumb can their American donors be?
Why give money today based on the Mir legacy or Reb Nosson Tzvi?
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yzj on April 08, 2019, 09:54:52 PM
Whatís your goal. To pressure the powers that be to go back to the old ways? Itís their yeshiva now. Get used to it. All yeshivas undergo change. The Chaim Berlin I went to wasnít Rav Hutners. Rav Shneurs BMG was very different than Rav Aharons. And the Mir has had very different leadership and mashgichim over the last 200 years. Thatís the way it goes. 40 years from now I guarantee it will not look anything like today.

You could start this thread for many other organizations and mosdos. Time for you to move on and accept the Mir for what it is m, not for what it was 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 09:55:36 PM



Disclaimer: I never did "the Mir" or know a whole lot about it. But targeting a specific Yeshiva, when this is an issue with 90% of Yeshivas in the World seems like there's a story behind this.

I donít know of any other yeshiva that changed as quickly and as drastically, with barely anyone noticing.
This was literally ויקם מלך חדש
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 10:01:55 PM
Whatís your goal. To pressure the powers that be to go back to the old ways? Itís their yeshiva now. Get used to it. All yeshivas undergo change. The Chaim Berlin I went to wasnít Rav Hutners. Rav Shneurs BMG was very different than Rav Aharons. And the Mir has had very different leadership and mashgichim over the last 200 years. Thatís the way it goes. 40 years from now I guarantee it will not look anything like today.

You could start this thread for many other organizations and mosdos. Time for you to move on and accept the Mir for what it is m, not for what it was 20 years ago.
Youíre right all yeshivos change.

Here is different.
They run around talking about how R Nosson Tzvi was so warm, tried to build a kesher with each talmud,cared about each one Talmud like it was his kid, had an open door, and gave everyone a chance.
Weíre continuing his legacy....

Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yzj on April 08, 2019, 10:05:19 PM
I donít know of any other yeshiva that changed as quickly and as drastically, with barely anyone noticing.
This was literally ויקם מלך

רבי אלעזר בן עזריה?
But you donít have to go back to the days of רבן גמליאל.
Study the history of any yeshiva from volohzin and on or any chasiddus. A new leader leads in his own derech. That is the way it has always been.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
רבי אלעזר בן עזריה?
But you donít have to go back to the days of רבן גמליאל.
Study the history of any yeshiva from volohzin and on or any chasiddus. A new leader leads in his own derech. That is the way it has always been.
Let me be clear: every new leader can pick his own derech. But this post isnít directed at the Mir leadership. Itís directed to those that havenít realized that itís a new leader and new derech. Not a continuation of any legacy.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: Emkay on April 08, 2019, 10:31:24 PM
Piteous.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: skyguy918 on April 08, 2019, 10:31:42 PM
Let me be clear: every new leader can pick his own derech. But this post isnít directed at the Mir leadership. Itís directed to those that havenít realized that itís a new leader and new derech. Not a continuation of any legacy.
Basically, you're assuming that the people donating don't know that things are different, and that if they knew they wouldn't be donating. Don't know why you'd assume either point.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: sguitarist18 on April 08, 2019, 10:36:55 PM
OK, I usually don't feed the trolls, but I feel without someone giving at least a bit of an answer, it will look like the OP is right.

Disclaimer - OP clearly has a lot of bitterness and anger, and nothing I write can answer or change any of that. I'm sorry for whatever made you feel that way.

First of all, and most of all - hakaras hatov. It may have changed, but the Mir is still the same yeshiva, and those of us who gained from it, owe the yeshiva a tremendous debt of gratitude that no money can ever repay. We also donate because we want to give back, we want to allow other talmidim to have the opportunity of yeshivas Mir - in whatever iteration it currently is.

So - I was in Mir back in R' Nosson Tzvi's days, and while he was alive, changes were made - some I was happy about, others I had more trouble understanding. I spoke to my rebbe at the time, and was able to better understand.

If I was at the point I was 20 years ago, applying to the Mir today, I would probably not get in.

However, the fact remains that the Mir has always been a yeshiva where things are more open, and people can grow at their own pace, from where they are, in their own way. Those of us who were around 15-20 years ago saw the changes when too many people took advantage of that, and the Mir started becoming a place where good bochurim didn't want to go. And so some changes HAD to be made, or the Mir and its legacy would be lost forever - because while they could care less about "top" bochurim, if the good bochurim aren't going there, no one else wants to go either, and the Mire would have lost its ability to give over what it does.

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

If you're looking for a rebbe who will treat you like a child and pretend there's a deep connection when you haven't invested a drop of effort into it, the Mir probably isn't for you.

Finally, despite the fact that the Mir is no longer as opened-doored as it was 20 years ago, it is still, without a doubt, the most diverse of all the mainstream yeshivish yeshivas.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 08, 2019, 10:51:10 PM
Going back to 1989, my family owned some real estate next to the Mir and rented it to a seminary. The Mir took us to Din Torah at the Eidah, how can you bring girls next to a Yeshiva. The Rov at the time, the Minchas Yitzchok, paskened that we should evict the seminary and that Mir should cover the rent. We evicted, and never got a penny. The building sat vacant and we lost control due to property taxes unpaid. The municipality gave it to a new seminary and laughed at the Mir and the Eidah. Today, there are 3 seminaryís on that block. Suffice to say no one in that office dares ask us for tuition or donations ad hayom hazeh. When they offered to honor my uncle at a London dinner he said a big thanks but no thanks...
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: knowitall on April 08, 2019, 10:53:03 PM

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

What?
What did you say?
"If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled."

Rabbi Elefant, Rabbi Resnick, Rabbi Wagshal all have shiurim between 50-100 guys, closer to the higher end.
With a shiur that size, it just isn't possible to have a deep connection to each talmud, especially if every year or two its a whole new crop.
Bigger isn't better when it comes to education.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: sguitarist18 on April 08, 2019, 11:44:49 PM
OK, that's exactly my point.

I'll go with R' Elefant, since I know that situation best. As one friend of mine said, "he has a shiur of 80 guys, but he treats every one like a ben yachid."

Any talmid who wants a connection and puts in the effort, gets one. The ones that don't want, or feel it isn't worth waiting in line by night seder to talk to him, or make an appointment to go to his house to talk to him...don't really want a connection.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: myi on April 09, 2019, 01:22:09 AM
OK, that's exactly my point.

I'll go with R' Elefant, since I know that situation best. As one friend of mine said, "he has a shiur of 80 guys, but he treats every one like a ben yachid."

Any talmid who wants a connection and puts in the effort, gets one. The ones that don't want, or feel it isn't worth waiting in line by night seder to talk to him, or make an appointment to go to his house to talk to him...don't really want a connection.
Well said, he supposedly has a laptop with every bachur who came into his shuir and wants to know the whereabouts with that bachur, but then again, you can only bring the horse to the water but can't make it drink, so that much rabbi elefant is there, he's reachable and caring for those bachrim who put an effort to be part of the structure in his shuir and speak to him and want to talk to him, but if you run and avoid him,then yes there's no reason rabbi elefant will run after the bachur.
 I know there's an email and lots of other stuff set up for each time rabbi elefant comes to america and has meetings and time slots for each bachur and yungerlight who want to speak in person with him.
 He has an american number aside for the Israeli number so whomever wants to reach him he should be able to be reached. And not to forget the thursday night chill he has with the buchrim with cholent and drinks, and allows the talmidim to ask away with any question their heart desires. As well every Thursday night,really late he has a live conference with his old talmidim in america and gives and shuir to them and makes sure to stay in touch.
 Again this is just one of the few rabbaim that there's in the mir.
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 09, 2019, 02:17:56 AM
Lots of misleading and plain false info here which I will not go into for multiple reasons. But keep in mind the OPs point, this is not a Mir bashing thread, and promoting the Mir doesn't address OPs concern
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: stooges44 on April 09, 2019, 06:13:15 AM
OK, I usually don't feed the trolls, but I feel without someone giving at least a bit of an answer, it will look like the OP is right.

Disclaimer - OP clearly has a lot of bitterness and anger, and nothing I write can answer or change any of that. I'm sorry for whatever made you feel that way.

First of all, and most of all - hakaras hatov. It may have changed, but the Mir is still the same yeshiva, and those of us who gained from it, owe the yeshiva a tremendous debt of gratitude that no money can ever repay. We also donate because we want to give back, we want to allow other talmidim to have the opportunity of yeshivas Mir - in whatever iteration it currently is.

So - I was in Mir back in R' Nosson Tzvi's days, and while he was alive, changes were made - some I was happy about, others I had more trouble understanding. I spoke to my rebbe at the time, and was able to better understand.

If I was at the point I was 20 years ago, applying to the Mir today, I would probably not get in.

However, the fact remains that the Mir has always been a yeshiva where things are more open, and people can grow at their own pace, from where they are, in their own way. Those of us who were around 15-20 years ago saw the changes when too many people took advantage of that, and the Mir started becoming a place where good bochurim didn't want to go. And so some changes HAD to be made, or the Mir and its legacy would be lost forever - because while they could care less about "top" bochurim, if the good bochurim aren't going there, no one else wants to go either, and the Mire would have lost its ability to give over what it does.

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

If you're looking for a rebbe who will treat you like a child and pretend there's a deep connection when you haven't invested a drop of effort into it, the Mir probably isn't for you.

Finally, despite the fact that the Mir is no longer as opened-doored as it was 20 years ago, it is still, without a doubt, the most diverse of all the mainstream yeshivish yeshivas.

Makes me want to have gone to the mir  :'(
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: shwarmabob on April 09, 2019, 07:10:24 AM
Well said, he supposedly has a laptop with every bachur who came into his shuir and wants to know the whereabouts with that bachur, but then again, you can only bring the horse to the water but can't make it drink, so that much rabbi elefant is there, he's reachable and caring for those bachrim who put an effort to be part of the structure in his shuir and speak to him and want to talk to him, but if you run and avoid him,then yes there's no reason rabbi elefant will run after the bachur.
 I know there's an email and lots of other stuff set up for each time rabbi elefant comes to america and has meetings and time slots for each bachur and yungerlight who want to speak in person with him.
 He has an american number aside for the Israeli number so whomever wants to reach him he should be able to be reached. And not to forget the thursday night chill he has with the buchrim with cholent and drinks, and allows the talmidim to ask away with any question their heart desires. As well every Thursday night,really late he has a live conference with his old talmidim in america and gives and shuir to them and makes sure to stay in touch.
 Again this is just one of the few rabbaim that there's in the mir.

That sounds pretty amazing to me, someone who did not go to mir
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yuneeq on April 09, 2019, 07:50:53 AM
Lots of misleading and plain false info here which I will not go into for multiple reasons. But keep in mind the OPs point, this is not a Mir bashing thread, and promoting the Mir doesn't address OPs concern

Iím an uninformed outsider in this convo but itís very clear that the title and OP is bashing the Mir. If there was another point to this thread then it hasnít been communicated well.

Regarding a yeshiva ďchangingĒ, nearly all the Yeshivos Iíve been too have changed a lot from when I was there. Some have changed multiple times and Iím not that old. Thatís life, times change and people change, both those in charge, and the bochurim that go there. 
Title: Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
Post by: yitzgar on April 09, 2019, 08:03:17 AM
Iím an uninformed outsider in this convo but itís very clear that the title and OP is bashing the Mir. If there was another point to this thread then it hasnít been communicated well.

Regarding a yeshiva ďchangingĒ, nearly all the Yeshivos Iíve been too have changed a lot from when I was there. Some have changed multiple times and Iím not that old. Thatís life, times change and people change, both those in charge, and the bochurim that go there.
+ in addition, the thread title makes it more obvious if it wasn't already. There's a clear negative connotation, not a simple question.