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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: Yehuda57 on August 28, 2019, 09:58:27 PM

Title: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 28, 2019, 09:58:27 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/430446/why-does-no-one-care-about-violence-against-orthodox-jews/

Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 08:24:11 AM
https://forward.com/opinion/430446/why-does-no-one-care-about-violence-against-orthodox-jews/
Isn't this true for just about any minority these days?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 08:26:12 AM
Isn't this true for just about any minority these days?
No.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 08:31:07 AM
No.
How about in big cities where woman and children are killed every day. Who cares about the violence against them?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: gingyguy on August 29, 2019, 08:43:20 AM
How about in big cities where woman and children are killed every day. Who cares about the violence against them?
whats your point? That women & children being  murdered in big cities, is worse than violence against Orthodox Jews ?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 08:44:41 AM
whats your point? That women & children being  murdered in big cities, is worse than violence against Orthodox Jews ?
Take reading comprehension 101 then come back and ask a question.  >:(
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 08:51:05 AM
Take reading comprehension 101 then come back and ask a question.  >:(
Oy, read the article again before talking to anyone else about reading comprehension.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: gingyguy on August 29, 2019, 08:52:54 AM
Take reading comprehension 101 then come back and ask a question.  >:(
How about you make it easy for a tired fella . Tell me , what was your point?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 08:57:04 AM
Oy, read the article again before talking to anyone else about reading comprehension.
My reading comprehension is just find. There are several points made in the article and I addressed one of them. Then @gingyguy asks a stupid loaded question and you defend it. Sick!!!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 08:59:45 AM
My reading comprehension is just find. There are several points made in the article and I addressed one of them. Then @gingyguy asks a stupid loaded question and you defend it. Sick!!!
I didn't say a word about his comment.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 09:02:30 AM
My reading comprehension is just find. There are several points made in the article and I addressed one of them. Then @gingyguy asks a stupid loaded question and you defend it. Sick!!!
And sick? With 3 exclamation points? Let's tone it down there
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: gingyguy on August 29, 2019, 09:03:44 AM
And sick? With 3 exclamation points? Let's tone it down there
+1 . 1 exclamation point would have conveyed the message just fine!!!!!!!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 09:03:56 AM
I didn't say a word about his comment.
Really?
Oy, read the article again before talking to anyone else about reading comprehension.
Who was the anyone else you are referring to in this comment?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 09:20:51 AM
Really? Who was the anyone else you are referring to in this comment?
Even for this forum this conversation is inane
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 09:23:19 AM
Even for this forum this conversation is inane
It was a simple question. Your non-answer says it all.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 09:38:12 AM
https://hds.harvard.edu/news/2019/04/23/podcast-why-hate-crimes-are-rise#
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 09:59:48 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/28/anti-gay-hate-crimes-rise-fbi-says-and-they-likely-undercount/1582614001/
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
https://depts.washington.edu/hiprc/blacks-minorities-disproportionately-impacted-by-hate-crimes/
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 10:30:05 AM
https://depts.washington.edu/hiprc/blacks-minorities-disproportionately-impacted-by-hate-crimes/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/28/anti-gay-hate-crimes-rise-fbi-says-and-they-likely-undercount/1582614001/

You're just proving the point of the Forward article.

Unless you find similar articles about hate crimes against Chassidic or Yeahivish Jews.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 10:42:16 AM
You're just proving the point of the Forward article.

Unless you find similar articles about hate crimes against Chassidic or Yeahivish Jews.
Which point of the article are you talking about since it makes several points?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 11:08:08 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pro-gun-parkland-survivor-says-harvard-rescinded-offer-over-offensive-n1018441
You are not getting into Harvard with your racist and misogynist comments and views. On the flip side you are a perfect candidate to become president.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 11:15:28 AM
It was a simple question. Your non-answer says it all.

Against better judgement (https://xkcd.com/386/), here goes:

Oy, read the article again before talking to anyone else about reading comprehension.
Really? Who was the anyone else you are referring to in this comment?
Indeed, the "anyone else" is [current] gingyguy. But I was not saying anything about his *comment*, let alone defending it. I was saying that *you* failed to comprehend the primary points of the piece if that was your response, which made it ironic that you used *that* (reading comprehension) criticism.

Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 11:19:37 AM
Which point of the article are you talking about since it makes several points?

The main point which is right there in the title (and the link).

Antisemitism against "The Jew's Jews" (to use a term from the article) is highly prevalent (possibly more so than the other bias crimes that you mention, if talking in ratios) yet I challenge you to find even 1 article in the MSM about it, for every 100 (or 1,000, or more) article about hate crimes against blacks, LGBT, women, Hispanics, or any other group.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 11:26:21 AM
Against better judgement (https://xkcd.com/386/), here goes:
 Indeed, the "anyone else" is [current] gingyguy.
Thank you!!!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 11:29:35 AM
Antisemitism against "The Jew's Jews" (to use a term from the article) is highly prevalent...
Where did I disagree with this?
My point was the same can be said against other minorities. If you all would get out more you would see it in real time instead of relying on news articles.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 11:45:07 AM
Where did I disagree with this?
My point was the same can be said against other minorities. If you all would get out more you would see it in real time instead of relying on news articles.

Where's that meme of something that flew right over your head?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 11:46:32 AM
Where's that meme of something that flew right over your head?
If you would get out more you would know where to look.  :P
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 11:59:37 AM
I myself have written about this at length before here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=5531.msg1614788#msg1614788) and at The Forward (http://bit.ly/lbfwd).

This is last week:

That's one of the leaders of the Reform movement, arguably the largest group of Jews in the country, going on a show with an unrepentant anti-Semite with Jewish blood on his hands.

This is the head of the ADL, who's job description is literally to combat anti-Semitism also whitewashing the anti-Semite:


This is because the victims are A) not the right kind of Jews. b) the perpetrators are not the right kind of anti-Semites.

This is me a couple of weeks ago:

This happens on a daily basis. I probably only tweeted that one because I was scrolling through Twitter when it happened. It's no big deal to get cursed at, right? But this is my neighbor:


I could just as easily have been attacked.

Many DDFers live in Rockland County where this is going on:


And the same for Tom's River/Lakewood and many other places.

You like to say words matter. Oftentimes silence matters more.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 12:06:52 PM
If you would get out more you would know where to look.  :P
Maybe just maybe YOU are the one not understanding things over here. Maybe YOU need to get out more.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:07:04 PM
While on the topic of antisemitism, my son who got back from spending about a month in various Ukranian towns said the other day "thank G-d for antisemitism!".

When we all looked at him in puzzlement, he recalled how upon arriving at a certain town, a lady screamed at him and his partner "go back to Israel, this town has no place for Jews". My son responded by telling her that prior to WWII this town was 70% Jewish, and you are living on top of the blood of thousands of Jews that were murdered and their property stolen.

When he got to repeat that story to even the most disenfranchised Jew in the town, it brought about a Jewish awakening, prompting them to want to do a mitzvah to show their Jewishness. The other good thing about antisemitism is, that it protects from assimilation.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:09:04 PM
Maybe just maybe YOU are the one not understanding things over here. Maybe YOU need to get out more.
It is possible but highly unlikely. Those growing up in sheltered communities are less aware of what is going on outside their community. I know no one likes to hear that but facts are facts.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:09:23 PM
If you would get out more you would know where to look.  :P
Maybe just maybe YOU are the one not understanding things over here. Maybe YOU need to stop with your mantra of "get out more" and look with open eyes and an open mind at what is presented right in front of you in the most clear fashion.

FTFY
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
It is possible but highly unlikely. Those growing up in sheltered communities are less aware of what is going on outside their community. I know no one likes to hear that but facts are facts.

OK. So let's get some facts from the one that is out there so much. Please provide some MSM or tweets from the people "out there" that decry the kind of antisemitism we are talking about.

PUOSU!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 12:15:35 PM
It is possible but highly unlikely. Those growing up in sheltered communities are less aware of what is going on outside their community. I know no one likes to hear that but facts are facts.
Okay, but what do those outside that sheltered community know about what happens within?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:28:37 PM
OK. So let's get some facts from the one that is out there so much. Please provide some MSM or tweets from the people "out there" that decry the kind of antisemitism we are talking about.

PUOSU!
How about comments from me? Would that suffice?
My original point and still is that violence against all minorities do not get the outcry they deserve. Translation: Nobody cares.
This position is trying to be twisted into I don't believe this is happening against Jews.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:31:29 PM
Okay, but what do those outside that sheltered community know about what happens within?
Maybe because they actually see what is happening.
Remember the case about the elderly Jewish man that was beat up for no reason. The guy got out of his car and just went after him. Some of us actually learn by listening.  ;)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:37:45 PM
How about comments from me? Would that suffice?
My original point and still is that violence against all minorities do not get the outcry they deserve. Translation: Nobody cares.
This position is trying to be twisted into I don't believe this is happening against Jews.

Go back to reading comprehension 101 (or just take a breather, relax, and try to reread what was written in the article and here with a clear mind).
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:39:52 PM
Go back to reading comprehension 101 (or just take a breather, relax, and try to reread what was written in the article and here with a clear mind).
The article has several points. One of which is these crimes are not getting the outcry they deserve. Do you disagree?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 12:42:08 PM
How about comments from me? Would that suffice?
My original point and still is that violence against all minorities do not get the outcry they deserve. Translation: Nobody cares.
This position is trying to be twisted into I don't believe this is happening against Jews.
Except that there are constantly MSM articles etc about racism and many other forms of bigotry but not about this one.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Dan on August 29, 2019, 12:44:17 PM
I myself have written about this at length before here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=5531.msg1614788#msg1614788) and at The Forward (https://http://bit.ly/lbfwd).

This is last week:

That's one of the leaders of the Reform movement, arguably the largest group of Jews in the country, going on a show with an unrepentant anti-Semite with Jewish blood on his hands.

This is the head of the ADL, who's job description is literally to combat anti-Semitism also whitewashing the anti-Semite:


This is because the victims are A) not the right kind of Jews. b) the perpetrators are not the right kind of anti-Semites.

This is me a couple of weeks ago:

This happens on a daily basis. I probably only tweeted that one because I was scrolling through Twitter when it happened. It's no big deal to get cursed at, right? But this is my neighbor:


I could just as easily have been attacked.

Many DDFers live in Rockland County where this is going on:


And the same for Tom's River/Lakewood and many other places.

You like to say words matter. Oftentimes silence matters more.
Terrifying. This is why we all have passports.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 12:45:21 PM
It is possible but highly unlikely. Those growing up in sheltered communities are less aware of what is going on outside their community. I know no one likes to hear that but facts are facts.

I grew up in South Africa, no other Chassidic Jews in my neighborhood.
I studied in Canada, France, Australia, Brooklyn and Buffalo.
My wife grew up in Nebraska, 3 hours away from the nearest Chassidic Jew, and who knows how far from what one could legitimately call a Chassidic community.
My next door neighbor is from Trinidad. My co-workers are from the Philippines, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Puerto Rico, and numerous states.
I've traveled to 5 continents.
I am hardly the exception. But please, tell me more about how sheltered we are.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:46:21 PM
Except that there are constantly MSM articles etc about racism and many other forms of bigotry but not about this one.
...and that has what to do with my point?
Do you see anywhere I say MSM gives equal time to violence against each minority?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:47:08 PM
This is why we all have passports.

- 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 12:48:09 PM


This is last week:


That's one of the leaders of the Reform movement, arguably the largest group of Jews in the country, going on a show with an unrepentant anti-Semite with Jewish blood on his hands.

This is the head of the ADL, who's job description is literally to combat anti-Semitism also whitewashing the anti-Semite:



This is because the victims are A) not the right kind of Jews. b) the perpetrators are not the right kind of anti-Semites.


They, like many others, are more concerned about bashing Trump than the real issue.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:48:27 PM
...and that has what to do with my point?
Do you see anywhere I say MSM gives equal time to violence against each minority?

Who's talking about equal time?
OK. So let's get some facts from the one that is out there so much. Please provide some MSM or tweets from the people "out there" that decry the kind of antisemitism we are talking about.

PUOSU!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 12:49:45 PM
...and that has what to do with my point?
Do you see anywhere I say MSM gives equal time to violence against each minority?

How about one small iota of acknowledging it exists?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:49:59 PM
I grew up in South Africa, no other Chassidic Jews in my neighborhood.
I studied in Canada, France, Australia, Brooklyn and Buffalo.
My wife grew up in Nebraska, 3 hours away from the nearest Chassidic Jew, and who knows how far from what one could legitimately call a Chassidic community.
My next door neighbor is from Trinidad. My co-workers are from the Philippines, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Puerto Rico, and numerous states.
I've traveled to 5 continents.
I am hardly the exception. But please, tell me more about how sheltered we are.
Maybe this is why you call out Trump on his anti-Semitic remarks and certain others that don't have your exposure will not?
I didn't think you would help prove my point.  :)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 12:52:19 PM
How about one small iota of acknowledging it exists?
That what exists? MSM gives more coverage to certain minority violence (non-Jewish).
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 12:57:35 PM
How about one small iota of acknowledging it exists?
That what exists? MSM gives more coverage to certain minority violence (non-Jewish).

OK. Since you seem to have failed reading comprehension, let's spell it out for you in the simplest of terms:

Could you please bring some (or any) quotes from MSM or Twitter that decry antisemitism against Jews who look like the Jews of Lakewood, Boro Park, Williamsburg, Crown Heights, Monsey, KJ, etc.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 12:59:18 PM
That what exists? MSM gives exclusive coverage to certain minority violence (non-ultra-orthodox).
FTFY
You totally missed the boat about anything anyone here is saying.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 01:00:53 PM
That what exists? MSM gives more coverage to certain minority violence (non-Jewish).


OK. Since you seem to have failed reading comprehension, let's spell it out for you in the simplest of term.

Could you please bring some (or any) quotes from MSM or Twitter that decry antisemitism against Jews who look like the Jews of Lakewood, Boro Park, Williamsburg, Crown Heights, Monsey, KJ, etc.
I don't think it is reading comprehension but rather that he is not understanding the entire concept.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 01:01:48 PM
Maybe this is why you call out Trump on his anti-Semitic remarks and certain others that don't have your exposure will not?
I didn't think you would help prove my point.  :)
They, like many others, are more concerned about bashing Trump than the real issue.
I think we found one.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 01:06:39 PM
The problem is I am addressing one part of the article and ALL OF YOU are trying to apply it to the whole article. What part of this do you not understand?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 01:18:56 PM
The problem is I am addressing one part of the article
Which was?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 01:30:49 PM

but the vast majority of American Anti-Semitic attacks come from African Americans and Hispanic individuals.

Which is an example I give to people about why racism by Jews is so repugnant.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 01:31:39 PM
Which was?
Now you ask.  ::)
That no one cares, no one is doing anything.
And almost no one will stand up for us. Even when Orthodox Jews are brutally attacked, those with power limit their reaction to a single tweet. After yesterdays attack in Crown Heights, New York City officials posted obligatory calls for tolerance, yet the lack of any real action is troubling. In June, at the Jewish American Heritage Month party at Gracie Mansion, Mayor Bill de Blasio promised to immediately open an office devoted to combatting anti-Semitism; its two months and several anti-Jewish hate crimes later, and Jewish communal representatives are saying that they have yet to get an update on this.

Now if you want to say it is worse against orthodox Jews than other Jews I would agree with you but that is not my point. My original point and still is ALL minorities have the same problem. That no one cares, no one is doing anything. Please don't take no one literally.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 01:43:51 PM
Now you ask.  ::)
That no one cares, no one is doing anything.
And almost no one will stand up for us. Even when Orthodox Jews are brutally attacked, those with power limit their reaction to a single tweet. After yesterdays attack in Crown Heights, New York City officials posted obligatory calls for tolerance, yet the lack of any real action is troubling. In June, at the Jewish American Heritage Month party at Gracie Mansion, Mayor Bill de Blasio promised to immediately open an office devoted to combatting anti-Semitism; its two months and several anti-Jewish hate crimes later, and Jewish communal representatives are saying that they have yet to get an update on this.

Now if you want to say it is worse against orthodox Jews than other Jews I would agree with you but that is not my point. My original point and still is ALL minorities have the same problem. That no one cares, no one is doing anything. Please don't take no one literally.
All minorities have a problem that there is not enough attention. Bigotry targeting orthodox jews has gotten ZERO attention.
a big portion of that is because
They, like many others, are more concerned about bashing Trump than the real issue.
This is a big portion of why you find people here not caring enough about Trump.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 01:48:46 PM
All minorities have a problem that there is not enough attention. Bigotry targeting orthodox jews has gotten ZERO attention.
I will not take ZERO literally.
At our DO how many would you say were Orthodox Jews. How would I know?
I am assuming Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox is different. Is that correct?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 02:08:09 PM
I will not take ZERO literally.
At our DO how many would you say were Orthodox Jews. How would I know?
I am assuming Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox is different. Is that correct?
These paragraphs are the key
Quote
Why wont anyone speak up? Is it because they do not see Orthodox Jews as real Americans, as citizens deserving of the right to live safely in their communities? Are we too other, too apart, disloyal, to earn the privilege of peaceful existence? Is it because we are politically inconvenient? If the perpetrator wasnt a white supremacist who voted for Trump, then it didnt really happen, did it?
Quote
Our secular brethren may walk in the street and have the luxury of blending into the crowd, as anonymous New Yorkers, but we wear our identities on our sleeves.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 02:12:33 PM
These paragraphs are the key
I understand that.
How about my questions? This isn't a trick.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 02:15:51 PM
I understand that.
How about my questions? This isn't a trick.
They answer your questions.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
They answer your questions.
No it doesn't. They were all Orthodox?
How about Modern vs Ultra?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: hvaces42 on August 29, 2019, 02:26:55 PM

My original point and still is ALL minorities have the same problem. That no one cares, no one is doing anything. Please don't take no one literally.
Isnt this classic Whataboutism? No one cares because we are fair game. We always have been and always will be, until...

Halacha Hu...Rashi says its Halacha...
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 02:28:05 PM
No it doesn't. They were all Orthodox?
How about Modern vs Ultra?
My recollection is that most maybe all were ultra but there may have been modox. There was one exception whch was the guy who was chase with a hatchet.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 02:29:40 PM
My recollection is that most maybe all were ultra but there may have been modox. There was one exception whch was the guy who was chase with a hatchet.
Thanks as my impression was most were modern.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 02:36:04 PM
No it doesn't. They were all Orthodox?
How about Modern vs Ultra?

For the purposes of anti-Semitisim, just think of it as "visibly Jewish".

Ultra Orthodox is a slur, but that's a whole nother discussion
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
For the purposes of anti-Semitisim, just think of it as "visibly Jewish".
I did but then was called out for it.
Ultra Orthodox is a slur, but that's a whole nother discussion
I was going to ask that but then thought better to keep my mouth shut. It my mind it reminds me of light/dark skin blacks. One feels they are better than the other.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 02:52:18 PM
The New York Times Just Made A STUNNING Admission About Why Leftists Often Refuse To Call Out Anti-Semitism (https://www.dailywire.com/news/37888/new-york-times-just-made-stunning-admission-about-ben-shapiro)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: hvaces42 on August 29, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
The New York Times Just Made A STUNNING Admission About Why Leftists Often Refuse To Call Out Anti-Semitism (https://www.dailywire.com/news/37888/new-york-times-just-made-stunning-admission-about-ben-shapiro)
But But But Ben Shapiro... ;D
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:00:25 PM
But But But Ben Shapiro... ;D
Started to read the article then I seen BS in the corner, click!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 03:06:56 PM
Started to read the article then I seen BS in the corner, click!
Wow, you now have me totally convinced!
With such a compelling argument I declare you the official winner of this round.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:09:17 PM
Wow, you now have me totally convinced!
With such a compelling argument I declare you the official winner of this round.
I wasn't making any argument with the comment. He is pretty one-sided so I choose not to read his stuff.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: hvaces42 on August 29, 2019, 03:12:01 PM
I wasn't making any argument with the comment. He is pretty one-sided so I choose not to read his stuff.
First rule of holes:

If you're in one, stop digging.

The truth usually is one-sided. Forget anything else he has said or done. This article is truth. Talk about being sheltered. You are building your own little echo chamber.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:18:35 PM
First rule of holes:

If you're in one, stop digging.

The truth usually is one-sided. Forget anything else he has said or done. This article is truth. Talk about being sheltered. You are building your own little echo chamber.
First rule of a knife fight: You better have something bigger than a knife.
Anytime you want to put your life experiences against mine let me know.  :)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 03:21:50 PM
I wasn't making any argument with the comment. He is pretty one-sided so I choose not to read his stuff.
What a lame excuse.

Of course he's one sided, that's what he does. He's an opinion journalist giving his side of the argument. He doesn't claim to be doing anything else.

The funny thing is, when I posted that I knew you would dismiss it as coming from BS rather than actually address his point...

p.s. I think this article is actually better Why Downplay Hate Crimes Against Jews? (https://jewishjournal.com/columnist/294171/why-downplay-hate-crimes-against-jews/)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 03:25:13 PM
Started to read the article then I seen BS in the corner, click!

Did you at least "click" the NYT story and read the source for yourself?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:26:01 PM
What a lame excuse.
Don't confuse a fact with an excuse.
I use to watch Hannity to see what the Kool-Aid drinkers here would post next. I no longer watch him.
I use to read BS every now and then but it just got old.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:27:41 PM
Did you at least "click" the NYT story and read the source for yourself?
I got to "On Wednesday" then seen his picture.  :)
ETA: Just for you I tried to read the article now but it is behind a paywall.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 03:29:13 PM
I got to "On Wednesday" then seen his picture.  :)

I'll spoonfeed you, young grasshopper :P
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/nyregion/jewish-bias-safety-nyc.html
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 03:30:06 PM
Don't confuse a fact with an excuse.
I use to watch Hannity to see what the Kool-Aid drinkers here would post next. I no longer watch him.
I use to read BS every now and then but it just got old.
Most of his stuff is repetitive, but every now and then he adds on to his regular topics.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:31:31 PM
I'll spoonfeed you, young grasshopper :P
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/nyregion/jewish-bias-safety-nyc.html
ETA: Just for you I tried to read the article now but it is behind a paywall.
...and please to ALL of you. Come up with your own lines.  >:(
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:41:50 PM
I was able to read the NYT article thanks to a member here. What is the question?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 03:52:24 PM
What is the question?
No question, he's just making a point.

The NYT basically admitted that despite there being a much sharper increase in hate crimes against Jews than against other minorities or protected classes, they don't report it because it (Jews being attacked by blacks etc rather than white supremacists) doesn't fit their narrative (white supremacists emboldened by Trump attacking brown people.)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:52:57 PM
For the purposes of anti-Semitisim, just think of it as "visibly Jewish".

Ultra Orthodox is a slur, but that's a whole nother discussion
Would be OK if I use this for " PC Friday question of the day"?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 03:54:59 PM
Don't confuse a fact with an excuse.
I use to watch Hannity to see what the Kool-Aid drinkers here would post next. I no longer watch him.
I use to read BS every now and then but it just got old.

Honestly, this thread is becoming worse than BS. I strongly suggest you take a break and decide if and when you want to come back after attempting to see the perspective everyone else is seeing here.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:57:54 PM
No question, he's just making a point.
Then maybe he should leave out loaded words like "admitted".
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 03:58:58 PM
Honestly, this thread is becoming worse than BS. I strongly suggest you take a break and decide if and when you want to come back after attempting to see the perspective everyone else is seeing here.
Most of us are on the same page now. You on the other hand...
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 04:16:20 PM
Then maybe he should leave out loaded words like "admitted".
i.e. you're not disputing his point, you just think he should've worded it differently?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 04:23:44 PM
i.e. you're not disputing his point, you just think he should've worded it differently?
I read the NYT article. I see nothing that is wrong. I am fully aware of the type of things that are happening. I even posted sometime ago about a Jewish man that was shot and killed for no reason on the northside of Chicago. I knew about it because it was all over the news.
The left has an agenda and they slant their news that way. The right does the same thing.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 04:44:55 PM
I read the NYT article. I see nothing that is wrong. I am fully aware of the type of things that are happening. I even posted sometime ago about a Jewish man that was shot and killed for no reason on the northside of Chicago. I knew about it because it was all over the news.
The left has an agenda and they slant their news that way. The right does the same thing.
So just to clarify, is your argument here that what everyone here is saying is true, that the media basically ignores attacks against Jews but it's all cool because the media is all biased anyways?

Or are you saying that other groups are getting attacked at the same rate as Jews and the media is actually reporting attacks against Jews at the same rate as they report others?

Or is there another option I'm missing?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 04:54:28 PM
Or are you saying that other groups are getting attacked at the same rate as Jews and the media is actually reporting attacks against Jews at the same rate as they report others?
Close. Other minorities are being attacked. What rate it is being reported/covered I have no idea.
My original point was and still is ALL this violence against minorities is underreported. It seems no one cares.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 04:56:54 PM
/thread

Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 05:07:14 PM
https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/in-2019-more-than-half-of-reported-hate-crimes-were-anti-jewish-says-nypd (https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/in-2019-more-than-half-of-reported-hate-crimes-were-anti-jewish-says-nypd)

Sixty-nine or 37 percent of 2018s anti-Jewish hate crime reports resulted in an arrest. Forty of the alleged perpetrators were white, 25 were black, two were Hispanic and two were Asian.


Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:11:46 PM
A ton of statistics. What's the bottom line?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 05:13:04 PM
What rate it is being reported/covered I have no idea.
My original point was and still is ALL this violence against minorities is underreported. It seems no one cares.

Umm... I think you need to pick a lane here.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:19:24 PM
Umm... I think you need to pick a lane here.
Same lane. Hate crimes are under covered and underreported for all minorities. AFAIK no one disagrees with that, do you? Now at what rate is subject to debate. Many dismiss the FBI stats because it only covers reported hate crimes (not their fault).

Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 05:20:13 PM
A ton of statistics. What's the bottom line?
In NYC, Jews are the victims of bias crimes more than any other group, and often more than all other groups combined.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 05:20:44 PM
A ton of statistics. What's the bottom line?
1. that while Jews are about half the percentage of the NYC population than both blacks and Hispanics (or a quarter compared to the two groups combined) they were the victims of about 60% of the reported bias incidents.
2. Contrary to what some have written here (and I incorrectly went along with based on my anecdotal experiences), ~58% arrested were whites even though they only comprise ~35% of the population.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:21:45 PM
In NYC, Jews are the victims of bias crimes more than any other group, and often more than all other groups combined.
Ok we are in agreement.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 05:22:17 PM
In NYC, Jews are the victims of bias crimes more than any other group, and often more than all other groups combined.

Going through her thread you will see that the majority of bias incidents in NYC have been very consistently anti-semitic.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:23:59 PM
1. that while Jews are about half the percentage of the NYC population than both blacks and Hispanics (or a quarter compared to the two groups combined) they were the victims of about 60% of the reported bias incidents.
2. Contrary to what some have written here (and I incorrectly went along with based on my anecdotal experiences), ~58% arrested were whites even though they only comprise ~35% of the population.
So Jews in NYC are targeted more than the other groups. Ok we are all in agreement on that.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
So YOU ALL were jumping on me because you thought I didn't know Jews were the biggest target in NYC? Or worse yet you thought I was disputing it?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 29, 2019, 05:34:41 PM
So YOU ALL were jumping on me because you thought I didn't know Jews were the biggest target in NYC? Or worse yet you thought I was disputing it?
No. I posted an article about anti-Semitism being under-reported by the media and being all but ignored by the general population, especially those who do care and speak up about all other bias crimes.

Then you went and All Lives Mattered it.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 05:42:21 PM
2. Contrary to what some have written here (and I incorrectly went along with based on my anecdotal experiences), ~58% arrested were whites even though they only comprise ~35% of the population.
I must admit I was pretty surprised to see that as well.

1. FWIW, this is talking about arrests, not all perps, that may or may not be indicative of the overall stats.
2. I'm really curious to see what and where all these various incidents were. I can't remember hearing of a single story of a violent attack against a chassidic Jew in Brooklyn where the perp was white. (unless Arabs are being considered white here? there were definitely some of those.)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:42:50 PM
No. I posted an article about anti-Semitism being under-reported by the media and being all but ignored by the general population, especially those who do care and speak up about all other bias crimes.

Then you went and All Lives Mattered it.
You did post the article and I addressed one point of it. YOU ALL went nuts and ignored the point I was making. Instead of asking for a clarification you just went on to assume. Either way it doesn't matter as I am used to 100 against 1.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 05:43:47 PM
No. I posted an article about anti-Semitism being under-reported by the media and being all but ignored by the general population, especially those who do care and speak up about all other bias crimes.

Then you went and All Lives Mattered it.

Excellent Cliff notes for this thread.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Dan on August 29, 2019, 05:44:27 PM
- 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Suit yourself.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:44:58 PM
Excellent Cliff notes for this thread.
Great contribution as usual.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
You did post the article and I addressed one point of it. YOU ALL went nuts and ignored the point I was making. Instead of asking for a clarification you just went on to assume. Either way it doesn't matter as I am used to 100 against 1.

The equivalent of addressing DJT hairstyle to the exclusion of anything else about his style and leadership of this country.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:47:42 PM
The equivalent of addressing DJT hairstyle to the exclusion of anything else about his style and leadership of this country.
The problem with you and many here is you can't address one item because then you can't bob and weave.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: 12HRS on August 29, 2019, 05:49:03 PM
- 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

for those here trying to understand other points of view. can you speak non-binary?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:49:50 PM
for those here trying to understand other points of view. can you speak non-binary?
...or regular English would help.  :)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 05:50:26 PM
The equivalent of addressing DJT hairstyle to the exclusion of anything else about his style and leadership of this country.

OK. Let me rephrase this with a famous Jewish joke.

The Shlemiel was walking with a hot bowl of soup, and hit the Shlemazel, then came the Nudnik and asked if it was chicken soup or mushroom-barley soup.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 05:52:12 PM
for those here trying to understand other points of view. can you speak non-binary?

That wasn't in binary, more like decimal (or hexadecimal if you want).

We DON'T all have passports because of fear of antisemitism, on two counts: 1. Passports won't help. 2. We have plenty of other reasons for having passports.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Dan on August 29, 2019, 05:53:41 PM
1. Passports won't help.
What is your basis for this? History says otherwise.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
We DON'T all have passports because of fear of antisemitism, on two counts: 1. Passports won't help. 2. We have plenty of other reasons for having passports.
Another Friday question but I think the other one is better.
Why were some members encouraging me to use "ultra-orthodox" when some members feel it is a slur.  Hmmmmmm!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 05:58:02 PM
Another Friday question but I think the other one is better.
Why were some members encouraging me to use "orthodox" when some members feel it is a slur.  Hmmmmmm!
Probably the same reason some will describe themselves with the N word while others consider it a slur.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 05:59:06 PM
Probably the same reason some will describe themselves with the N word while others consider it a slur.
That's slur either way.
ETA: I forgot "ultra" in the post.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 06:03:42 PM
That's slur either way.
ETA: I forgot "ultra" in the post.

Okay. Honestly I am not sure why it would be considered to be a slur. I guess the context can make it one but that can be for many benign terms.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 06:08:08 PM
Okay. Honestly I am not sure why it would be considered to be a slur. I guess the context can make it one but that can be for many benign terms.
Will give my view. They want to make a distinction form other religious Jews. It will not be a favorable one for other Jews.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 06:10:16 PM
FBI stats. The number one group for hate crimes against them is African American. This is by total number of hate crimes for 2017.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 06:15:22 PM
FBI stats. The number one group for hate crimes against them is African American. This is by total number of hate crimes for 2017.

How does it they compare when adjusting for percent of population especially when adjusting for those visibly Jewish.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 06:16:03 PM
Will give my view. They want to make a distinction form other religious Jews. It will not be a favorable one for other Jews.
I consider it to be a mostly social distinction.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 06:16:57 PM
Same lane. Hate crimes are under covered and underreported for all minorities. AFAIK no one disagrees with that, do you? Now at what rate is subject to debate. Many dismiss the FBI stats because it only covers reported hate crimes (not their fault).
At what rate is kind of the whole issue here, although it may not have been the best choice of words. The whole discussion is whether attacks against Jews are treated differently (i.e. pretty much entirely ignored) by the media and celebrity social media than attacks against others. IIUC you're saying no and I'm saying yes.

How many stories have you seen blow up in the national media in the last few years about bias attacks against anyone other than a jew (and how many of those turned to be a hoax? but that's a whole nother discussion) and how many have you seen about bias attacks against Jews? (I'm not talking about mass shootings / murders)

Although maybe we're not really arguing here. I'm saying Attacks against Jews are pretty much entirely ignored and you're saying other attacks are under-reported. I guess that's not necessarily a contradiction.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 06:17:31 PM
FBI stats. The number one group for hate crimes against them is African American. This is by total number of hate crimes for 2017.
Now do per-capita.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 06:19:14 PM
How does it they compare when adjusting for percent of population especially when adjusting for those visibly Jewish.
Now do per-capita.
Didn't see that but my guess by the numbers it would be Jewish by a big margin.
Which one you think is more important?
Higher % and less victims or lower % but more victims?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 06:22:44 PM
Although maybe we're not really arguing here. I'm saying Attacks against Jews are pretty much entirely ignored and you're saying other attacks are under-reported. I guess that's not necessarily a contradiction.
We are pretty much on the same page. I would say it seems the reporting against Jews is way different in NCY than other places. I see anti-Semitic reports on the local news many times.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: whYME on August 29, 2019, 06:29:47 PM
Which one think is more important?
Higher % and less victims or lower % but more victims?
I can't say one is more important, that's probably a bad choice of words, but I think higher % even with a lower number of total victims is probably more indicative of a bigger or more widespread problem.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 29, 2019, 06:29:56 PM
Didn't see that but my guess by the numbers it would be Jewish by a big margin.
Which one you think is more important?
Higher % and less victims or lower % but more victims?
Definitely more victims but no reason for the two to be mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 06:31:09 PM
I consider it to be a mostly social distinction.
From some of the comments I have seen over the years here I would say it is more than social.
Catholics have a saying when someone asks if they are a Christian. H*ll no we are Catholics. I am confident you get the point.  :)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 06:34:11 PM
I can't say one is more important, that's probably a bad choice of words, but I think higher % even with a lower number of total victims is probably more indicative of a bigger or more widespread problem.
I agree but didn't know what other word to use. Your answer shows you get the point I was making.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
What is your basis for this? History says otherwise.

I'm a big believer in the one above.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: 12HRS on August 29, 2019, 07:26:05 PM
I'm a big believer in the one above.

why here more than any other place?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 07:26:43 PM
why here more than any other place?

Why any other place more than here?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Dan on August 29, 2019, 07:30:17 PM
I'm a big believer in the one above.
Jews in Europe without papers didn't believe? Little hishtadlus never hurt.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 07:36:43 PM
Jews in Europe without papers didn't believe? Little hishtadlus never hurt.
And everyone that had papers was saved?

I agree that hishtadlus never hurts. That's why I just got off the phone with a client rather than just sitting and learning.

But to say that the reason we have passports is for fear of antisemitism isn't accurate. There are several reasons why the US is very different than Europe. The world is also very different. Antisemitism is everywhere. I don't live in fear of it.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: shapsam on August 29, 2019, 08:17:17 PM
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 29, 2019, 08:51:36 PM

Good thing it was a Christian and not a Catholic.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 29, 2019, 11:19:14 PM
How about comments from me? Would that suffice?
My original point and still is that violence against all minorities do not get the outcry they deserve. Translation: Nobody cares.
This position is trying to be twisted into I don't believe this is happening against Jews.

Just reread this, and realized how far off you are in introducing something that is just barely related into the conversation.

Let me ask you some clarification questions about your statement:

1. Is it the violence that "doesn't get the outcry it deserves", or is it the hatred?
2. How do you define "minorities"? Is it anything less than 50%?
3. If the violence is Black against Black, or Hispanic against Hispanic, is it hate/bias based?
4. If the hate and bias are non-violent but highly prevalent in an overt way, should there be an outcry?
5. What would you consider a level of "deserved" outcry?
6. If the violence or bigotry is against a majority is it OK?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 12:13:33 AM
Just reread this, and realized how far off you are in introducing something that is just barely related into the conversation.

Let me ask you some clarification questions about your statement:

1. Is it the violence that "doesn't get the outcry it deserves", or is it the hatred?
2. How do you define "minorities"? Is it anything less than 50%?
3. If the violence is Black against Black, or Hispanic against Hispanic, is it hate/bias based?
4. If the hate and bias are non-violent but highly prevalent in an overt way, should there be an outcry?
5. What would you consider a level of "deserved" outcry?
6. If the violence or bigotry is against a majority is it OK?
WOW!!!
AFAIK we are all on the same page now except you. You don't answer any of my questions and now come out of nowhere rapid firing questions at me. I will give you one thing. You have h*ll of a set.  :)
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 30, 2019, 02:17:57 AM
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-hayes-examines-the-ubiquity-of-anti-semitism-in-america-67812933934

Chris Hayes on the money at the end of this piece.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 07:47:17 AM
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-hayes-examines-the-ubiquity-of-anti-semitism-in-america-67812933934

Chris Hayes on the money at the end of this piece.
WOW!!! Posting something from MSNBC. Many here will think I hacked your account even if I don't watch MSNBC.
Now to the piece. What some refuse to accept is this is not a D/R or L/R issue. This is a racist/anti-Sematic issue. These type of people come in all colors and political beliefs.
You said earlier words matter but also staying silent matters. So everyone needs to speak up!!!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 30, 2019, 09:18:07 AM


WOW!!! Posting something from MSNBC. Many here will think I hacked your account even if I don't watch MSNBC.
Now to the piece. What some refuse to accept is this is not a D/R or L/R issue. This is a racist/anti-Sematic issue. These type of people come in all colors and political beliefs.
You said earlier words matter but also staying silent matters. So everyone needs to speak up!!!

Bingo
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2019, 10:01:44 AM
WOW!!! Posting something from MSNBC. Many here will think I hacked your account even if I don't watch MSNBC.
Now to the piece. What some refuse to accept is this is not a D/R or L/R issue. This is a racist/anti-Sematic issue. These type of people come in all colors and political beliefs.
You said earlier words matter but also staying silent matters. So everyone needs to speak up!!!
What always makes the least sense is bigotry between minorities. No Jew or black etc. Should ever give in to any bigotry at all since they are next.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yonah on August 30, 2019, 10:06:43 AM
Late to the Party here.  w/r/t all of the arguments about different minorities and ethnic groups, a couple of points:

- Obviously, we should denounce hatred of anyone for their race, religion, or ethnicity.
- If you go by the FBI's hate crime statistics, even though there are more groups that have more hatred incidents directed towards them, Jews are still the 3rd largest total for 2017 (the last report available from the FBI), and the only higher groups are African Americans - who may have double the number of incidents but 8 times the population, and all Sexual Orientation incidents which are only 200 more than incidents against Jews - while the estimated LGBTQ+ community in the us is roughly 2x the Jewish Population

- Jews still make up nearly 60% of all anti-religious hate in the US.

- While 2017 has an uptick in reported incidents. The raise in in anti-Jewish Violence spiked up about 45%, while the other two groups above showed much smaller upticks against the previous 4-year average (anti sexual orientation incidents are up 3%, anti-blick up 16%)

- Incidentally, Anti-Muslim attacks, which jumped significantly between 14 and 15, went down last year.

Here is the source of the data - https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr/publications#Hate-Crime%20Statistics

I realize that all hate/bias crimes are under reported, but I would have to imagine that the under reporting is somewhat proportional - unless you have a study that can prove otherwise.

The bottom line, we need to worry about hatred against all groups, but Anti-Semitism has taken off in a scary direction, and disproportionate to other hate crimes.

Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 10:36:14 AM
The bottom line, we need to worry about hatred against all groups, but Anti-Semitism has taken off in a scary direction, and disproportionate to other hate crimes.
Valid point and agree.
Do you believe Jews would report hate crimes more say so than blacks? This in no way is challenging the overall stats big picture.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: grodnoking on August 30, 2019, 10:39:10 AM
WOW!!!
AFAIK we are all on the same page now except you. You don't answer any of my questions and now come out of nowhere rapid firing questions at me. I will give you one thing. You have h*ll of a set.  :)
Deflection!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 10:44:19 AM
Deflection!
If you have nothing worth of value to add to this discussion post that crap in the political thread.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 10:46:14 AM
Should ever give in to any bigotry at all since they are next.
We both know those that do give in bigotry believe it will stop at them.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 30, 2019, 10:50:02 AM
Valid point and agree.
Do you believe Jews would report hate crimes more say so than blacks? This in no way is challenging the overall stats big picture.

I have no factual basis for my belief or assumption, but my impression that the opposite is more accurate. Just look at @Yehuda57's description of his interaction with his neighbor. For Jews to report something it needs to get really bad.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 30, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
I have no factual basis for my belief or assumption, but my impression that the opposite is more accurate. Just look at @Yehuda57's description of his interaction with his neighbor. For Jews to report something it needs to get really bad.
No one can answer that question without pulling stuff out of their tuchus. The media has done a great job of sowing distrust between the police and black communities, so they likely also under-report.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 10:58:12 AM
The media has done a great job of sowing distrust between the police and black communities, so they likely also under-report.
Don't blame the media for this. Black distrust the police for 100+ different valid reasons. I would also say hate crimes to most blacks is part of life for them. There response is: So what else is new.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: grodnoking on August 30, 2019, 10:58:34 AM
If you have nothing worth of value to add to this discussion post that crap in the political thread.
Deflection again!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 30, 2019, 11:04:17 AM
Don't blame the media for this. Black distrust the police for 100+ different valid reasons. I would also say hate crimes to most blacks is part of life for them. There response is: So what else is new.

Of course there are valid reasons. But that's a discussion for another pc thread.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yonah on August 30, 2019, 11:06:17 AM
Valid point and agree.
Do you believe Jews would report hate crimes more say so than blacks? This in no way is challenging the overall stats big picture.
....

I realize that all hate/bias crimes are under reported, but I would have to imagine that the under reporting is somewhat proportional - unless you have a study that can prove otherwise.


I don't know of any study that captures under reporting. I also didn't look deeper into the definition of what's being reported - does some random guy on the street calling me an f***ing jew count as a hate crime? Would I be expected to report that if he did? What if an AA or Hispanic person were called by a similar epithet?

I also think that in the last few years, because of the divisiveness in this country and because of the Me Too movement, people are more likely to report incidents than in the past, there has definitely been an uptick in reports - I can't promise you that it's a direct uptick in incidents, but given the disproportion in the Jewish numbers, you'd have to believe that it's indicative of a greater trend. (For example, the 3% increase in anti-Sexual Orientation attacks between 16 and 17 could be because of an uptick in reporting, or within the average of previous years, but a 50% increase? I can't imagine 300 more people were compelled to come forward).



Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 11:11:51 AM
I also think that in the last few years, because of the divisiveness in this country and because of the Me Too movement, people are more likely to report incidents than in the past, there has definitely been an uptick in reports - I can't promise you that it's a direct uptick in incidents, but given the disproportion in the Jewish numbers, you'd have to believe that it's indicative of a greater trend. (For example, the 3% increase in anti-Sexual Orientation attacks between 16 and 17 could be because of an uptick in reporting, or within the average of previous years, but a 50% increase? I can't imagine 300 more people were compelled to come forward).
You need to be careful with numbers as they can be slanted to suit the person. Going from 1 to 2 is 100% increase but is meaningless.
Also can others chime in that don't live in NY? How about from Cleveland, LA, Miami, Chicago or other places?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yonah on August 30, 2019, 11:18:38 AM
Don't blame the media for this. Black distrust the police for 100+ different valid reasons. I would also say hate crimes to most blacks is part of life for them. There response is: So what else is new.

Again, what's the bar? Is stopping a black driver in a white neighborhood a hate crime? To what extent would a Black person report something as a hate crime, and how much greater, lower proportionately than a Jew?

About 250 blacks were killed by the police in 2017 (source - https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ - using 2017 to compare to the FBI's hate crimes) - that still doesn't bring the total anywhere near what the proportional total would need to be to compare to anti-semitic hate crimes.


Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yonah on August 30, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
You need to be careful with numbers as they can be slanted to suit the person. Going from 1 to 2 is 100% increase but is meaningless.
Also can others chime in that don't live in NY? How about from Cleveland, LA, Miami, Chicago or other places?

These are national numbers as reported by the FBI, which come from UCR reporting from local police departments. I don't mention in any of my posts that this is specific to NY, so where did you get that from?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 11:22:25 AM
About 250 blacks were killed by the police in 2017 (source - https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ - using 2017 to compare to the FBI's hate crimes) - that still doesn't bring the total anywhere near what the proportional total would need to be to compare to anti-semitic hate crimes.
Please clarify this. You comparing deaths to being roughed up?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 11:24:04 AM
I don't mention in any of my posts that this is specific to NY, so where did you get that from?
From the numerous post in this thread. I should have separate my question from quoting your post.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yonah on August 30, 2019, 11:33:07 AM
Please clarify this. You comparing deaths to being roughed up?

No, I was commenting on the notion of how under reported crimes against Blacks might be. Even in agreement that there is probably a larger amount of distrust of the police in the AA community vs the Jewish community, I can't imagine that it's so much larger that Jews are still not the most disproportionately targeted group. My point was that If I took the total number of AA people shot by police in the USA in 2017, there'd be less than 0.6 hate crimes reported per 10000 AA people in the USA. Jewish hate crimes are 2 per 10000 - more than 3x as much.

Also hate crimes in the UCR table I used aren't broken down by type of incident - could be murders, could be assault, could be vandalism or harrasment.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 11:37:40 AM
No, I was commenting on the notion of how under reported crimes against Blacks might be. Even in agreement that there is probably a larger amount of distrust of the police in the AA community vs the Jewish community, I can't imagine that it's so much larger that Jews are still not the most disproportionately targeted group. My point was that If I took the total number of AA people shot by police in the USA in 2017, there'd be less than 0.6 hate crimes reported per 10000 AA people in the USA. Jewish hate crimes are 2 per 10000 - more than 3x as much.

Also hate crimes in the UCR table I used aren't broken down by type of incident - could be murders, could be assault, could be vandalism or harrasment.
You are using deaths of AA as your base for hate crimes. That makes no sense. Lets use Jews shoot by police as a base. How many of those do you know of.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Yonah on August 30, 2019, 11:56:50 AM
You are using deaths of AA as your base for hate crimes. That makes no sense. Lets use Jews shoot by police as a base. How many of those do you know of.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough - you were talking about the under reporting of hate crimes, and the distrust of the AA community of the police. I would imagine that a black man shot by police would be considered a hate crime in the AA community, but definitely not likely by the police.  What I am suggesting is, that even if you add those to the FBI's UCR statistics of hate crimes against AA, it would still be significantly disproportionate to the violence against jews NOT including anything outside the UCR.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 12:02:37 PM
Maybe I wasn't clear enough - you were talking about the under reporting of hate crimes, and the distrust of the AA community of the police. I would imagine that a black man shot by police would be considered a hate crime in the AA community, but definitely not likely by the police.  What I am suggesting is, that even if you add those to the FBI's UCR statistics of hate crimes against AA, it would still be significantly disproportionate to the violence against jews NOT including anything outside the UCR.
Ok I understand what you are saying. I would just leave deaths out of the picture.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2019, 12:04:57 PM
I think one of the most disturbing aspects of anti-orthodoxy is that many of the same people who profess to be fighting anti-semitism actually practice it when it comes to the orthodox.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 12:06:00 PM
I think one of the most disturbing aspects of anti-orthodoxy is that many of the same people who profess to be fighting anti-semitism actually practice it when it comes to the orthodox.
Is this what they call the Jews Jew?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2019, 12:10:34 PM
Is this what they call the Jews Jew?
Yes, this is what the author of the article meant by that line
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2019, 12:15:10 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/430477/no-one-cares-about-attacks-against-the-orthodox-because-youve-been/
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 30, 2019, 12:22:33 PM
I think one of the most disturbing aspects of anti-orthodoxy is that many of the same people who profess to be fighting anti-semitism actually practice it when it comes to the orthodox.

Just look at what goes on in Israel. The upcoming election was prompted by it.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 12:22:51 PM
Yes, this is what the author of the article meant by that line
Sad but not surprising.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 30, 2019, 12:23:35 PM
Sad but not surprising.

Are you really implying that this wasn't clear to you until now?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 12:30:39 PM
Are you really implying that this wasn't clear to you until now?
Before we get into another circle jerk, what wasn't clear to me?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2019, 01:15:37 PM
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on August 30, 2019, 02:56:53 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2019/08/ocean-county-prosecutor-urges-kehilla-organizations-spread-the-word-on-reporting-bias-incidents-stop-the-hate.html
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: aradisc on August 30, 2019, 04:18:19 PM
covered by Chris Hayes on his MSNBC show yesterday: https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-hayes-examines-the-ubiquity-of-anti-semitism-in-america-67812933934
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: ExGingi on August 30, 2019, 04:52:49 PM
Before we get into another circle jerk, what wasn't clear to me?

Is this what they call the Jews Jew?

And by extension, I took that to mean that you might have not realized that said bias can very easily come from Jewish people.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on August 30, 2019, 06:11:44 PM
And by extension, I took that to mean that you might have not realized that said bias can very easily come from Jewish people.
I seen the term in the article but didn't pay much attention to it.
Some of the worst discrimination comes from within. I gave the example of light/dark skin blacks.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: zh cohen on August 31, 2019, 10:19:37 PM
https://www.recordonline.com/news/20190829/gops-video-slammed-as-anti-hasidic

Add this headline as a data point for the article...
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: yeshivaman on September 01, 2019, 11:50:54 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/430477/no-one-cares-about-attacks-against-the-orthodox-because-youve-been/

+10000 this piece
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: shapsam on September 03, 2019, 10:24:11 PM
I figured this is a good thread for this.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on September 03, 2019, 10:32:31 PM
Taxes are that high?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: shapsam on September 03, 2019, 10:40:57 PM
Taxes are that high?
Many properties in that area are even higher.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Moshe123 on September 04, 2019, 06:51:39 AM
When Rockland Legislator @AronWieder said "Rockland is also a loving home where I raise my children," someone yells out "how many?" https://t.co/oDBfknXRMt
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on September 04, 2019, 08:47:35 AM
When Rockland Legislator @AronWieder said "Rockland is also a loving home where I raise my children," someone yells out "how many?" https://t.co/oDBfknXRMt
That sure sounds doctored.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on September 05, 2019, 05:20:00 PM
That sure sounds doctored.
-1
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on September 05, 2019, 05:23:11 PM
I figured this is a good thread for this.
could not have said it better! Perfect!
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on September 05, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
-1
You think it sounds real?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on September 05, 2019, 05:29:24 PM
You think it sounds real?
yes
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: CountValentine on September 05, 2019, 05:31:37 PM
yes
I didn't hear anyone yell, just a murmur and then it ended.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: Yammer on September 05, 2019, 05:38:18 PM
I didn't hear anyone yell, just a murmur and then it ended.
Was probably near the recording phone
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on September 05, 2019, 05:50:32 PM
I didn't hear anyone yell, just a murmur and then it ended.
ur right it wasnt yelled but said aloud.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: mushkovits on September 06, 2019, 07:35:46 AM
https://matzav.com/must-watch-boaz-golan-of-israels-channel-2-talks-about-new-ohel-division-of-chareidim-the-truth-of-chareidi-community-service/
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: yelped on September 06, 2019, 10:34:41 AM
https://matzav.com/must-watch-boaz-golan-of-israels-channel-2-talks-about-new-ohel-division-of-chareidim-the-truth-of-chareidi-community-service/
This is from a while ago already.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: whYME on September 06, 2019, 05:27:26 PM


I didn't watch it yet but seems relevant
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Spli
Post by: CountValentine on September 08, 2019, 08:29:44 AM
I didn't watch it yet but seems relevant
A couple of good points are made.
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: gingyguy on September 12, 2019, 03:32:48 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2019/09/12/suspect-arrested-in-brutal-crown-heights-attack/
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on September 15, 2019, 12:05:48 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2019/09/hate-in-jackson-car-attempts-to-run-over-jewish-residents.html
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: skyguy918 on September 18, 2019, 12:13:30 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1787629/williamsburg-hasidic-man-beaten-and-robbed-of-cell-phone-watch-the-video.html
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: YitzyS on September 18, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: yelped on September 18, 2019, 01:18:45 PM
What happened?
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: YitzyS on September 18, 2019, 04:56:03 PM
What happened?
Trenton Councilmember said "Jew down", and Councilpresident defended the remarks as a figure of speech "like a car dealer will Jew down the price". Similar comments were also made by a Paterson Councilmember. See story:

https://newjerseyglobe.com/congress/entire-nj-congressional-delegation-seeks-apology-or-resignation-for-trenton-officials-who-made-anti-semitic-statements/
Title: Re: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)
Post by: Luvisrael on September 18, 2019, 05:46:04 PM
Trenton Councilmember said "Jew down", and Councilpresident defended the remarks as a figure of speech "like a car dealer will Jew down the price". Similar comments were also made by a Paterson Councilmember. See story:

https://newjerseyglobe.com/congress/entire-nj-congressional-delegation-seeks-apology-or-resignation-for-trenton-officials-who-made-anti-semitic-statements/
You know, its like a car dealer, they wanted $5,000, you Jew em down to $4,000, Muschal said.  Its nothing vicious.  The expression has been said millions of times.

Vaughn, who continues to defend McBride on social media, said that Jew her down was just a verb and didnt see anything wrong with the term.

Maybe if we call her the N word, shell get it. Cuz the expression has been said millions of times.

Im fact it may be far better , where its derived from the word Negro, which is a legit word referring to people of black skin.