Post by: Dan on January 29, 2020, 12:30:46 AM
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Post by: Mimo on January 29, 2020, 01:25:38 AM
Post by: mileagejunkie on January 29, 2020, 09:27:45 AM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.No travel plans, but let just say that I wouldnt even book a first class price mistake traveling through the region or with passengers from the region. Not going south because of Zika was easy (fun fact, got a bad flu on a flight when every outlet was talking about it and was treated as a potential Zika patient at the ER until tests came back) but this is going to be a tough one if it doesnt peak until May or June!
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Post by: mileagejunkie on January 29, 2020, 10:48:16 AM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.Dont forget to grab a bottle if you decide to go https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/vancouver-news/traveling-containers-heads-yvr-photos-2054517
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Post by: 159dallas on January 29, 2020, 05:10:20 PM
would I change my flight
NO
Would constantly wash my hands before after and during the fight
Yes
Post by: Yehudaa on January 29, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Post here for the best preventative methods:
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=3331.msg2182991#msg2182991
Post by: MrKaplan on January 29, 2020, 05:44:43 PM
Post here for the best preventative methods:https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=37255.0;topicseen
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=3331.msg2182991#msg2182991
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 29, 2020, 06:48:29 PM
Post by: ExGingi on January 29, 2020, 06:53:00 PM
Take it from an EMT perspective
would I change my flight
NO
Would constantly wash my hands before after and during the fight
Yes
One might avoid catching the coronavirus that way, but might acquire an acute form of OCD.
Post by: yuneeq on January 29, 2020, 07:51:08 PM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are you concerned about if youre not going near China.
Is it the FAs youre worried about it or is it the passengers on the return flight most likely connecting from China?
Post by: Dan on January 29, 2020, 07:59:20 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are you concerned about if youre not going near China.Both.
Is it the FAs youre worried about it or is it the passengers on the return flight most likely connecting from China?
Post by: ExGingi on January 29, 2020, 08:18:41 PM
Take it from an EMT perspective
would I change my flight
NO
Would constantly wash my hands before after and during the fight
Yes
What about the age old advice of making sure your hands never go above your neckline?
Post by: shmooz on January 30, 2020, 10:49:07 AM
Post by: ah giten on January 30, 2020, 11:52:38 AM
Both.And the Plane not well sanitized after carrying people and luggage from China.
Post by: tavster on January 30, 2020, 12:41:34 PM
Post by: stooges44 on January 30, 2020, 01:23:14 PM
Post by: shaulyaakov on January 30, 2020, 02:04:58 PM
If it's not in Hong Kong, not sure I'd be worried about taking a flight on a HKG based airline. You could always purel down the seat etc.
If the trip is purely optional, may be just unnecessary to take the risk.
Post by: yuneeq on January 30, 2020, 04:45:31 PM
Post by: stooges44 on January 31, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
Post by: Moshe123 on January 31, 2020, 12:49:12 PM
Post by: ExGingi on January 31, 2020, 03:47:13 PM
How's the Chinese economy not going to collapse if this goes on much longer?
The Chinese will pour in a fortune to get their economy back up.
Post by: YesThatsMe on February 02, 2020, 10:00:40 AM
Post by: iluv2travel on February 02, 2020, 11:10:05 AM
Post by: Yehudaa on February 02, 2020, 03:03:22 PM
Post by: ExGingi on February 03, 2020, 11:32:56 PM
Post by: ah giten on February 03, 2020, 11:44:39 PM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.htmlYou can never trust the Chinese gov. scared to think how much worse it can be, but they're not saying.
Post by: Dan on February 03, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
You can never trust the Chinese gov. scared to think how much worse it can be, but they're not saying.Now the conspiracy is did they release the virus by accident...
Post by: Proisrael on February 04, 2020, 07:51:15 AM
Post by: stooges44 on February 04, 2020, 10:25:05 AM
Now the conspiracy is did they release the virus by accident...
For what purpose? Crowd control?
Post by: Dan on February 04, 2020, 01:53:35 PM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.Nobody else here booked on CX?
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Post by: Mimo on February 04, 2020, 02:04:29 PM
AA has suspended all flights to Hong Kong.https://onemileatatime.com/american-airlines-suspends-hong-kong-flights/
Post by: stooges44 on February 04, 2020, 04:21:35 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-can-build-a-coronavirus-hospital-in-10-days-11580397751
China is set to open Wuhan's Huoshenshan Hospital on Monday. The 1,000-bed facility was built in 10 days to cope with the coronavirus outbreak https://t.co/w40vKsuwVk pic.twitter.com/JqFcFGLaLu
— TIME (@TIME) February 3, 2020
Post by: Dan on February 04, 2020, 04:29:20 PM
Incredible!Invalid Tweet ID
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-can-build-a-coronavirus-hospital-in-10-days-11580397751
Post by: stooges44 on February 04, 2020, 04:44:40 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Agreed. But incredible nonetheless
Post by: yelped on February 04, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Agreed. But incredible nonethelessYou ain't been to Lakewood? ;)
Post by: yuneeq on February 04, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
Agreed. But incredible nonetheless
The fascists that caused the outbreak, are the same fascists that use slave labor to build a poorly constructed hospital very quickly.
Post by: ltttc on February 04, 2020, 04:55:30 PM
Nobody else here booked on CX?Not sure I'd wanna take the risk under current circumstances
Post by: ExGingi on February 04, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
Post by: yuneeq on February 04, 2020, 10:28:43 PM
Great site for tracking the reported numbers (which I don't believe to be the whole picture).
Jumped up by nearly 5k cases today.
Post by: Luvisrael on February 04, 2020, 10:30:33 PM
You ain't been to Lakewood? ;)lol
Post by: Shmobaum on February 04, 2020, 10:48:00 PM
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-yeshiva-world-podcast/id1495874870?i=1000464478614
Post by: yuneeq on February 04, 2020, 11:28:23 PM
Now the conspiracy is did they release the virus by accident...
https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2020/01/27/did-wuhan-coronavirus-escape-from-a-lab-in-china/
"Wuhan is also the site of the communist regimes only declared BSL-4 (Biosafety Level 4) or P4 (Pathogen Level 4) facility, the Wuhan Institute of Virology."
It's less than 10 miles away from the first reported cases.
Post by: yuneeq on February 04, 2020, 11:28:43 PM
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2020, 12:49:01 PM
Post by: pointer on February 05, 2020, 04:12:18 PM
anyone with a report of it being refunded? need the chizuk!
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2020, 09:01:07 PM
Post by: yuneeq on February 05, 2020, 09:58:36 PM
Post by: lakewood34 on February 05, 2020, 11:25:39 PM
Nobody else here booked on CX?
i flew it a few weeks ago before the whole virus etc. and the plane was really really empty im guessing coach was about 20% the whole back section was entirely empty and the one in front of that was also very empty. The fullest section was first with 5 out of 6 seats occupied.
business was maybe a third full and pe was also maybe 25-30 percent full
Post by: 159dallas on February 06, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
An update from AA today:
Travel Alert: An update on Hong Kong flying
Due to the reduction in demand, American Airlines has extended the suspension of flying to Hong Kong from our Los Angeles hub through March 27. Flights to Hong Kong from Dallas-Fort Worth are scheduled to resume Feb. 21. The airline will continue to review its flight schedule to ensure that customers needs are accommodated and make additional refinements as needed..
Post by: stooges44 on February 06, 2020, 08:02:28 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/asia/li-wenliang-coronavirus-whistleblower-doctor-dies-intl/index.html
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 06, 2020, 08:25:44 PM
Tl Dr- they are rounding up the ill and putting them in camps with limited medical care.
Post by: Dawie on February 07, 2020, 03:42:50 PM
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 07, 2020, 03:58:30 PM
Will they cancel the Olympics? Shinzo Abe thinks not...Olympics are in Japan. Doubtful they'd cancel. Will they quarantine Chinese athletes and spectators for 14 days before allowing th in? Possibly.
Post by: yuneeq on February 09, 2020, 02:00:31 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-08/coronavirus-death-toll-rises-to-805-passing-sars-virus-update
Post by: tavster on February 09, 2020, 10:33:23 AM
Post by: Yehudaa on February 09, 2020, 11:10:31 AM
LY suspending its flights to Hong Kong, JPost reports
It probably wasn't making much money with empty flights. (https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1076583)
Post by: yuneeq on February 09, 2020, 11:13:41 AM
Taking lady away
https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581090343484.webm
Scene at hotel/hospital
Locking people in their homes
Post by: Dan on February 09, 2020, 11:16:27 AM
It probably wasn't making much money with empty flights. (https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1076583)Wow.
Any YouTube link to that video?
Post by: Dan on February 09, 2020, 11:21:34 AM
Some videos from within ChinaCrazy.
Taking lady away
https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581090343484.webm
Scene at hotel/hospital
Locking people in their homes
Post by: yelped on February 09, 2020, 11:34:24 AM
This is all enabled by the UN. I don't think I'm that far off if I state that the UN is responsible for the most lives lost since WW2.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HillelNeuer/status/1225453189476032513
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 09, 2020, 11:54:40 AM
People are expected to just die of hunger in their homes??I mean if not for the UN, countries would keep invading each other.
This is all enabled by the UN. I don't think I'm that far off if I state that the UN is responsible for the most lives lost since WW2.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HillelNeuer/status/1225453189476032513
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 09, 2020, 12:31:28 PM
Post by: Yehudaa on February 09, 2020, 12:45:46 PM
Wow.
Any YouTube link to that video?
Not that I could find.
Post by: aygart on February 09, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
I mean if not for the UN, countries would keep invading each other.Because now they would never think of such a thing
Post by: yuneeq on February 09, 2020, 02:46:29 PM
Gas - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581081111666.webm
Guns - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581080709674.webm
More guns - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581092058083.webm
Barricaded in - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581205699692.webm
Another house locked up - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581204288126.webm
Hospital (graphic) https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581082701024.webm
Mayhem in hospital/shelter - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581080774134.webm
Hundreds(?) of doctors swarming a building
VIDEO: Early morning scene in #Wuhan - hundreds dressed in hazmat suits preparing to enter tower block. pic.twitter.com/uJObUkd30Z #coronavirus #Hubei #CCP #ChinaCoronaVirus #PRC 🇨🇳
— Sam Pye (@freddie1999) February 3, 2020
Citizen journalist enters hospital, gets detained shortly after:
Post by: yelped on February 09, 2020, 02:50:58 PM
I mean if not for the UN, countries would keep invading each other.You left out the sarcasm emoji.
Post by: grodnoking on February 09, 2020, 02:52:54 PM
You left out the sarcasm emoji.
Post by: flyingace on February 09, 2020, 03:45:07 PM
Some more vidsScary. Reminds one how evil communism really is.
Gas - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581081111666.webm
Guns - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581080709674.webm
More guns - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581092058083.webm
Barricaded in - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581205699692.webm
Another house locked up - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581204288126.webm
Hospital (graphic) https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581082701024.webm
Mayhem in hospital/shelter - https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1581080774134.webm
Hundreds(?) of doctors swarming a buildingVIDEO: Early morning scene in #Wuhan - hundreds dressed in hazmat suits preparing to enter tower block. pic.twitter.com/uJObUkd30Z #coronavirus #Hubei #CCP #ChinaCoronaVirus #PRC 🇨🇳
— Sam Pye (@freddie1999) February 3, 2020
Citizen journalist enters hospital, gets detained shortly after:
Post by: ExGingi on February 09, 2020, 09:05:06 PM
Post by: ah giten on February 09, 2020, 10:43:13 PM
Post by: aygart on February 09, 2020, 10:48:11 PM
one thing I fail to understand why they have to lock in the people into their buildings?..Ostensibly so they shouldn't infect others.
Post by: aygart on February 10, 2020, 07:54:34 AM
Ostensibly so they shouldn't infect others.I wonder what would be done if c"v such a thing happened here. I can't imagine they would be so cruel, but on the other hand, how would they prevent the disease from spreading? Maybe over here it would be caught earlier and not covered up like it seems to have been in China and that would prevent it from becoming such a serious issue in the first place, but that may not always be reliable.
Post by: stooges44 on February 10, 2020, 02:49:13 PM
Post by: Dawie on February 10, 2020, 02:56:01 PM
I wonder what would be done if c"v such a thing happened here. I can't imagine they would be so cruel, but on the other hand, how would they prevent the disease from spreading? Maybe over here it would be caught earlier and not covered up like it seems to have been in China and that would prevent it from becoming such a serious issue in the first place, but that may not always be reliable.look at the cruise ship ongoing story. they have locked 3700 people in their rooms and anyone with inner rooms are allowed on deck for an hour a day.
oh and for the compensation thread, if they live, they get a free cruise... as if they'd ever get back on a ship
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/10/804440928/diamond-princess-cruise-ship-has-65-more-coronavirus-cases-in-japan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-china-live-updates/2020/02/10/67115416-4b9a-11ea-bf44-f5043eb3918a_story.html
Post by: aygart on February 10, 2020, 03:08:53 PM
look at the cruise ship ongoing story. they have locked 3700 people in their rooms and anyone with inner rooms are allowed on deck for an hour a day.That is so much of a smaller scale in addition to that they are stuck on the ship as much as if it had the doors welded shut.
oh and for the compensation thread, if they live, they get a free cruise... as if they'd ever get back on a ship
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/10/804440928/diamond-princess-cruise-ship-has-65-more-coronavirus-cases-in-japan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-china-live-updates/2020/02/10/67115416-4b9a-11ea-bf44-f5043eb3918a_story.html
Post by: Dawie on February 10, 2020, 03:56:42 PM
That is so much of a smaller scale in addition to that they are stuck on the ship as much as if it had the doors welded shut.exactly and so far no riots yet
i can not imagine trying to lock down a major US city
Hollyweird style
Post by: Dawie on February 10, 2020, 03:57:53 PM
Post by: Yellow on February 12, 2020, 10:02:05 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Well, thats terrifying (if true).
Post by: yitz1000 on February 12, 2020, 07:22:49 PM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.So did you cancel?
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
Post by: ah giten on February 12, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
So did you cancel?I think he said he did on DDMS.
Should I consider not flying to TLV bcuz of the craziness? Is that already my OCD? I feel like flying in times like this, for leisure, is just to be avoided. nonsense or totally off?
Post by: yitz1000 on February 12, 2020, 09:27:18 PM
I think he said he did on DDMS.Was wondering same.
Should I consider not flying to TLV bcuz of the craziness? Is that already my OCD? I feel like flying in times like this, for leisure, is just to be avoided. nonsense or totally off?
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on February 12, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
Was wondering same.
I saw people walking around US airports with masks last week.
Post by: ah giten on February 12, 2020, 09:39:39 PM
I saw people walking around US airports with masks last week.actually all over NYC you see this. esp Chinese.
Post by: yitz1000 on February 12, 2020, 09:40:35 PM
actually all over NYC you see this. esp Chinese.Yeah but Chinese always wore masks everywhere
Post by: RebTuvia on February 12, 2020, 09:41:50 PM
I think he said he did on DDMS.
Should I consider not flying to TLV bcuz of the craziness? Is that already my OCD? I feel like flying in times like this, for leisure, is just to be avoided. nonsense or totally off?
Israel?? Nothing to worry about they grounded all Chinese inbound and outbound flights.
Post by: how on February 12, 2020, 11:35:14 PM
Post by: chff on February 12, 2020, 11:51:49 PM
Somehow numbers spiked today by 15k. now past 60k confirmed caseshttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-13/china-coronavirus-cases-jump-after-counting-method-revision
Post by: Dawie on February 13, 2020, 12:27:58 PM
https://anash.org/kosher-saves-man-from-deadly-virus/
A Jewish man who was about to board the now virus-plagued cruiseliner, refused to join when he discovered his Kosher meals hadnt been ordered.
By VosIzNeias
Nir Gilad, a young Israeli who had recently returned to Judaism, decided to go on a cruise with the Diamond Princess, a luxury liner. Gilad requested that the company provide him with special kosher meals and the company agreed to accede to his request.
However, when Gilad arrived at the ship, he was shocked to discover that his kosher meals had not been ordered. Gilad decided immediately not to ascend onto the ship even though it entailed considerable financial loss.
Gilad was upset to miss out on the cruise but after a week he heard that the coronavirus had broken out on the ship and it was stranded near Japan with no country allowing the ship entry. At present the liner has 175 diagnosed cases of coronavirus, making it the worst outbreak of the virus outside mainland China.
Gilad realized that his insistence on kosher food had saved him from suffering the fate of the other passengers, who still do not know when they will be released from the ship and how they will return home.
Post by: ExGingi on February 13, 2020, 12:49:12 PM
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 13, 2020, 01:01:01 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-13/coronavirus-could-infect-two-thirds-of-globe-researcher-sayshashem yishmor
Post by: yuneeq on February 15, 2020, 10:31:22 PM
https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/14/passengers-shunned-coronavirus-ship-greeted-kisses-cambodia-pm-12239636/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/15/coronavirus-holland-america-westerdam-cruise-passenger-tests-positive/4771419002/
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 16, 2020, 12:27:51 AM
Post by: yelped on February 19, 2020, 01:10:43 PM
Quote
World of Hyatt Extends Tier Status And Benefits, Advancing Care For Members During COVID-19
CHICAGO (February 19, 2020) In response to the COVID-19 situation, World of Hyatt today announced that it will be offering members residing in the Asia Pacific region a series of tier status and benefits extensions, including:
Qualifying World of Hyatt Discoverist, Explorist and Globalist members will now have a new tier expiration of February 28, 2022 rather than February 28, 2021 to maintain their elite tier status and benefits.
Currently valid Suite Upgrade Awards, Club Access Awards and Free Night Awards that expire in 2020 for qualifying members will be extended through December 31, 2021.
World of Hyatt is also working to evaluate tier and benefit extensions for global members who travel frequently to the Asia Pacific region.
Now more than ever, its a priority for us to stay close to our World of Hyatt members, understand how their lives are impacted and help, said Amy Weinberg, senior vice president, World of Hyatt. Extending the expiration of elite tier status and benefits for our members is one of the ways we can care for our most loyal guests, so they have one less thing to worry about during this incredibly difficult time.
World of Hyatt is actively working to update qualifying members accounts to reflect the extension of elite tier status and award validity and expects these changes to be made by March 31, 2020. Qualifying members will receive information regarding these updates through email, My Hyatt Concierge, WeChat communications and more. Members with questions regarding their tier status can contact the nearest Hyatt Global Contact Center, reach Hyatt via WeChat (WeChat ID: HyattHotels) or email worldofhyatt@hyatt.com.
Hyatt remains committed to caring for its colleagues, guests and customers, as well as the communities in which Hyatt hotels operate. To further care for communities impacted by the current global health crisis, Hyatt has made a meaningful donation to the China Womens Development Foundation, a national public foundation that has been actively working to support the emergency relief works, including donation of medical equipment and care programs for frontline medical members and their families during this crisis.
Hyatt locations globally will continue to closely monitor the COVID-19 situation, remain vigilant and follow recommended procedures and protocols from various health organizations including the World Health Organization (WHO), U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and local authorities in an effort to ensure the continued safety and wellbeing of guests and colleagues.
For more information, please visit hyatt.com.
Post by: as2 on February 19, 2020, 01:13:10 PM
https://newsroom.hyatt.com/news-releases?item=123947 (https://newsroom.hyatt.com/news-releases?item=123947)That's pretty awesome. Hyatt is always keeping it classy.
Post by: yuneeq on February 19, 2020, 09:43:58 PM
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html
Post by: grodnoking on February 19, 2020, 10:27:10 PM
Don't worry about visiting Florida! People in Florida are immune to Coronavirus, as long as censorship is in place.More dangerous than the virus is the fear it causes. Some level of censorship should be in place to protect stupid Americans from themselves.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html
Not that the government should stop the media from posting things, but the government should withhold certain facts that the people don't have to know.
Post by: yuneeq on February 19, 2020, 10:52:18 PM
More dangerous than the virus is the fear it causes. Some level of censorship should be in place to protect stupid Americans from themselves.
Not that the government should stop the media from posting things, but the government should withhold certain facts that the people don't have to know.
Complete censorship is never the answer, just ask the CCP how many people got infected during their cover up scandal. But its a discussion worth having, and you are right about how it can be worse to scare people. But I think responsible reporting and taking responsible measures is the fine line between censorship and fear mongering, and they chose the wrong side.
Post by: pointer on February 21, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
https://newsroom.hyatt.com/news-releases?item=123947Marriott doing something right for a change.
https://onemileatatime.com/marriott-bonvoy-china/
Post by: as2 on February 21, 2020, 11:03:05 AM
Marriott doing something right for a change.More like copying other programs. I'm sure they'll find a way to cause more headaches for people with this though.
https://onemileatatime.com/marriott-bonvoy-china/ (https://onemileatatime.com/marriott-bonvoy-china/)
Post by: yuneeq on February 21, 2020, 05:00:58 PM
Was 15 and and now at 34 cases.
Post by: yuneeq on February 22, 2020, 08:23:51 PM
https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/SKorea-reports-142-additional-coronavirus-cases-brings-total-to-34-618364
List of places they visited:
February 8: Tower of David and Gallery hotels in Netanya.
February 9: Caesarea; Basilica of the Annunciation, St. Joseph's Church and St. Gabriel hotel in Nazareth; Ein Gev hotel in the Sea of Galilee.
February 10: Church of the Multiplication, Church of the Primacy of Saint Peter, Tanoreen restaurant and Ein Gev hotel in the Sea of Galilee.
February 11: David hotel in the Dead Sea.
February 12: Masada national park, Timna national park and Leonardo hotel in Be'er Sheva.
February 13: Be'er Sheva national park, Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron and Grand Court hotel in Jerusalem.
February 14: Bethphage, Chapel of the Ascension, Church of the Pater Noster, Dominus Flevit Church and Gethsemane in the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. Cenacle (Room of the Last Supper), Tomb of the Virgin Mary and the Church of Saint Peter in Gallicantu in the Old City of Jerusalem.
February 15: Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Church of Saint Anne and Jerusalem Gold restaurant in Jerusalem; St. John's Church and Church of the Visitation in Ein Karem.
Post by: aygart on February 22, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
Post by: Proisrael on February 23, 2020, 12:30:52 AM
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/1582400752-israel-some-90-high-school-students-in-isolation-after-coming-in-contact-with-virus-carrying-koreans
Scary for me....these kids are maybe a 5 minute drive away for me....only comfort is it has been 10 days already and nothing has come up.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 23, 2020, 03:48:58 AM
Post by: ExGingi on February 23, 2020, 08:54:41 AM
Post by: justmeha on February 23, 2020, 04:16:55 PM
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 23, 2020, 04:23:32 PM
does anybody knew how to check the flights still going in to chinajust make sure to be safe!!
Post by: yuneeq on February 23, 2020, 05:33:33 PM
does anybody knew how to check the flights still going in to china
Check what exactly? Youre looking to get quarantined?
Post by: justmeha on February 23, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Check what exactly? Youre looking to get quarantined?which airlines are still flying to airport x
thank you for your concern but i am looking at what are the options to go to china
p.s. no its not to see the great wall
Post by: m65 on February 23, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
which airlines are still flying to airport xif ur going go to the wall, its probably the safest place in china, ull be the only one there
thank you for your concern but i am looking at what are the options to go to china
p.s. no its not to see the great wall
Post by: yuneeq on February 23, 2020, 06:44:21 PM
which airlines are still flying to airport x
thank you for your concern but i am looking at what are the options to go to china
p.s. no its not to see the great wall
Then I'm not sure why you posted here when can just go on google/kayak/expedia and a simple search will tell you all you need to know.
Post by: hello111 on February 24, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Post by: chinagel on February 24, 2020, 10:33:35 AM
Check what exactly? Youre looking to get quarantined?Where are all the MYOB police?
Post by: yuneeq on February 24, 2020, 01:27:07 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/
Post by: Dan on February 24, 2020, 01:44:01 PM
Youre Likely to Get the Coronavirushttps://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/sunday-news-roundup-2-16-20-new-us-airlines-cruise-quarantines-reclinegate-yiddish-harry-potter-aeroplan-infant-awards/#Will_Coronavirus_Infect_23rds_Of_The_Planet
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 24, 2020, 01:54:33 PM
Post by: yuneeq on February 24, 2020, 01:56:40 PM
Curious if DDFers are tread ting COV-19 more or less seriously than Zika vis-a-vis travel.
I think it's far worse given how easily it spreads, but regardless airlines/countries are making it much more difficult to travel.
Post by: yuneeq on February 24, 2020, 11:49:43 PM
From 12 days ago but still puts COVID19 into perspective:
https://youtu.be/6dDD2tHWWnU?t=81
Graphic scenes from China:
https://nullvideo.com/user/JW293PQS/ewJz5aW
Recovered patient describing patients that were put in body bags (and cremated) while still breathing (translation is correct, FWIW)
Astonishing! This lady says she saw several people wrapped into bags while still breathing. Burned while alive!
— Jennifer Zeng 曾錚 (@jenniferatntd) February 24, 2020
震惊！真的是烧活人啊！「我们都看到的，亲眼看的嘛……真是想到寒心呐……」#COVID2019 #Coronavirus #CoronavirusOutbreak #coronaviruschina #武汉肺炎 #新冠肺炎 #新冠病毒 pic.twitter.com/ToLfzz7ZXn
Post by: yuneeq on February 25, 2020, 12:11:09 AM
https://covid19info.live/
Italy, Iran, South Korea all on their way to be China 2.0.
Post by: Yonah on February 25, 2020, 11:36:21 AM
Post by: yelped on February 25, 2020, 11:37:49 AM
I am flying to Israel next week for a family simcha. My boss mentioned to me that HR has been discussing what to do about people who travel overseas, and it's possible that they might make me work from home when I get back. Anyone else's company considering something like this?I know of companies that have been doing that already. But only for travelers to Asian countries for now.
Post by: Dawie on February 25, 2020, 12:58:28 PM
Breaking: Guests staying at the H10 Costa Adeje Palace in Tenerife have been told to stay in their rooms. They were told via a letter put under their door, which a guest has sent me.
— Catherine Wyatt (@catherinehwyatt) February 25, 2020
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 25, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
Post by: Euclid on February 25, 2020, 01:24:01 PM
Post by: Mordyk on February 25, 2020, 01:27:40 PM
im trying to think what, if anything, makes sense in this situation ???
Post by: yelped on February 25, 2020, 01:31:52 PM
what do the chinese people expect? that the government let it spread even more? its a difficult situation but if it would be in the U.S. wouldn't it spread faster because of political correctness?
im trying to think what, if anything, makes sense in this situation ???
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 25, 2020, 01:33:16 PM
what do the chinese people expect? that the government let it spread even more? its a difficult situation but if it would be in the U.S. wouldn't it spread faster because of political correctness?agree thats the scary part about it
im trying to think what, if anything, makes sense in this situation ???
Post by: as2 on February 25, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Killing people is not political incorrectnessNo, but unfortunately, letting people die is a result of PC at times.
Post by: Mordyk on February 25, 2020, 01:39:12 PM
Killing people is not political incorrectnessI agree. but its so difficult to know what is better. to let these people infect million others?
Post by: Euclid on February 25, 2020, 01:40:55 PM
I agree. but its so difficult to know what is better. to let these people infect million others?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
Post by: Dawie on February 25, 2020, 02:01:32 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problemand links a Chazon Ish ... wow!
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14332&st=&pgnum=404
Post by: yelped on February 25, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
I agree. but its so difficult to know what is better. to let these people infect million others?You can quarantine them, but you don't have to kill them or be ruthless about it.
Post by: stooges44 on February 25, 2020, 02:40:01 PM
Video dump.
From 12 days ago but still puts COVID19 into perspective:
https://youtu.be/6dDD2tHWWnU?t=81
Graphic scenes from China:
https://nullvideo.com/user/JW293PQS/ewJz5aW
Recovered patient describing patients that were put in body bags (and cremated) while still breathing (translation is correct, FWIW)Astonishing! This lady says she saw several people wrapped into bags while still breathing. Burned while alive!
— Jennifer Zeng 曾錚 (@jenniferatntd) February 24, 2020
震惊！真的是烧活人啊！「我们都看到的，亲眼看的嘛……真是想到寒心呐……」#COVID2019 #Coronavirus #CoronavirusOutbreak #coronaviruschina #武汉肺炎 #新冠肺炎 #新冠病毒 pic.twitter.com/ToLfzz7ZXn
On a lighter note
Post by: zagguru on February 25, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Post by: ExGingi on February 25, 2020, 06:47:13 PM
Which travel insurance are people buying in case coronavirus spreads to a place they have booked for travel? Do any credit card travel insurances cover this?
I haven't seen any exclusions on travel policies (yet), so as long as it covers medical emergencies, one should be OK. However, since this virus seems to have an incubation period, one might be back (and even symptom free) while having contracted it.
Post by: yuneeq on February 25, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
I haven't seen any exclusions on travel policies (yet), so as long as it covers medical emergencies, one should be OK. However, since this virus seems to have an incubation period, one might be back (and even symptom free) while having contracted it.
Some people might get blocked for other reasons - theyve traveled to -- recently and the destination country is no longer allowing visitors that were in - in the last 14 days. Or, you simply want to cancel your trip because you dont think your trip to Venice is such a great idea anymore.
Post by: shmooz on February 25, 2020, 07:21:28 PM
Which travel insurance are people buying in case coronavirus spreads to a place they have booked for travel? Do any credit card travel insurances cover this?
I read that quarantines are not covered, specifically about the sapphire. This is not something insurance will handle. Can't remember where I saw it though.
If c'v a person got sick that is covered.
Post by: zagguru on February 25, 2020, 07:41:42 PM
Or, you simply want to cancel your trip because you dont think your trip to Venice is such a great idea anymore.
Something like this. Does anything like this exist?
Post by: yelped on February 25, 2020, 08:17:32 PM
Something like this. Does anything like this exist?Some policies have cancel for any reason if purchased within 21 days of first travel booking with 75% reimbursement. Or if your work can give you a letter forbidding you to travel, cancel for work reason should apply.
Post by: ExGingi on February 25, 2020, 08:19:34 PM
Some policies have cancel for any reason if purchased within 21 days of first travel booking with 75% reimbursement. Or if your work can give you a letter forbidding you to travel.
IINM cancel for any reason isn't available in NY. It is available on some policies in most other states.
Post by: yelped on February 25, 2020, 08:20:47 PM
IINM cancel for any reason isn't available in NY. It is available on some policies in most other states.It definitely was available a few years ago. I used it.
Post by: ExGingi on February 25, 2020, 08:24:48 PM
It definitely was available a few years ago. I used it.
Interesting. Most policies I've looked at didn't make cancel for any reason available in NY.
Post by: etech0 on February 25, 2020, 08:34:01 PM
Interesting. Most policies I've looked at didn't make cancel for any reason available in NY.That's a new thing I think, about a year ago or so depending on the insurance company
Post by: ah giten on February 25, 2020, 09:08:03 PM
It definitely was available a few years ago. I used it.which company?
Post by: Yammer on February 25, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Some people might get blocked for other reasons - theyve traveled to -- recently and the destination country is no longer allowing visitors that were in - in the last 14 days. Or, you simply want to cancel your trip because you dont think your trip to Venice is such a great idea anymore.This.
Was wondering what the criteria would be for trip cancelation these days to places in Europe.
Post by: yitz1000 on February 25, 2020, 09:55:20 PM
This.I think it's generally based on official advisories in the area. Beyond that I guess YMMV depending on how persistent you are.
Was wondering what the criteria would be for trip cancelation these days to places in Europe.
Post by: yelped on February 26, 2020, 12:37:51 AM
which company?Not sure. Maybe Ross Fire or something like that. Squaremouth makes it very easy to find.
Post by: stooges44 on February 26, 2020, 09:38:14 AM
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1692308547718
Post by: Yammer on February 26, 2020, 01:34:57 PM
I think it's generally based on official advisories in the area. Beyond that I guess YMMV depending on how persistent you are.What happens if a doctor advises someone not to travel?
Post by: Joel on February 26, 2020, 02:14:39 PM
Post by: yitz1000 on February 26, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
What happens if a doctor advises someone not to travel?I don't have personal experience with this but I know in general, based on what I have heard from other people, doctor's notes do help.
I'm not talking specific to this virus though. Still, I think YMMV depending on your specific situation and how much patience you have.
Post by: Luvisrael on February 26, 2020, 02:20:47 PM
Post by: shmooz on February 26, 2020, 02:41:40 PM
What happens if a doctor advises someone not to travel?
https://thepointsguy.com/guide/deadly-coronavirus-type-disease/
A potential covered situation would be a quarantine imposed by a physician or governmental authority for health reasons. Still, weve confirmed with Chases Card Benefit Services that this would only apply if youre actually infected with the virus not if youve been quarantined out of precaution.
Post by: etech0 on February 26, 2020, 02:43:36 PM
I don't have personal experience with this but I know in general, based on what I have heard from other people, doctor's notes do help.I would double check with the insurance company, though, as coverage may exclude 'pandemics'.
I'm not talking specific to this virus though. Still, I think YMMV depending on your specific situation and how much patience you have.
Post by: Yonah on February 26, 2020, 03:12:16 PM
I'm getting a little worried, I have a flight for Israel on Sunday and debating if I should still go or not.
Post by: confu on February 26, 2020, 03:50:11 PM
Whoa - https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-unprecedented-move-israelis-advised-to-avoid-all-travel-over-virus-fears/why would this make Israel any less safe than the US?
I'm getting a little worried, I have a flight for Israel on Sunday and debating if I should still go or not.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 26, 2020, 04:05:05 PM
why would this make Israel any less safe than the US?Traveling is less safe, and Israel may close down the border resulting in no flights home.
Post by: mercaz1 on February 26, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Traveling is less safe, and Israel may close down the border resulting in no flights home.i cant imaging them keeping people in the country who want to leave
they might not let you come in anymore
World War Z
Post by: confu on February 26, 2020, 04:10:40 PM
Traveling is less safe, and Israel may close down the border resulting in no flights home.Holy land is not the worst place to be stuck....
Post by: Abebee on February 26, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
Holy land is not the worst place to be stuck....Tell that to the wife ;D
Post by: Yonah on February 26, 2020, 04:15:13 PM
Traveling is less safe, and Israel may close down the border resulting in no flights home.Exactly - if less people travel, there are fewer people who might need to be quarantined on the way back.
I think my biggest fear is landing in Israel and being quarantined for 2 weeks. This would mean that I not only miss the wedding I am traveling for, but that I also spend 2 weeks in Israel without seeing or doing anything.
Post by: Yonah on February 26, 2020, 04:16:03 PM
Holy land is not the worst place to be stuck....
I don't mind being stuck in Israel, so long as I am not Quarantined!
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 26, 2020, 04:27:42 PM
i cant imaging them keeping people in the country who want to leaveThere is a mandatory quarantine now for people who were in Korea, Japan, Thailand, etc.
they might not let you come in anymore
World War Z
Anyhow my point was if Israel bars entry to all non residents the airlines will cancel the flights.
Post by: Mordyk on February 26, 2020, 04:49:06 PM
1)airlines. countries barring entry literally means planes will be parked. i cant imagine international airlines can survive if flights are halted for 3 months.
2)china production means our goods will be delayed, more expensive or supply will just be an issue.
3)If above happens, thats when it really affects the stock market. whcih causes financial issues overall.
sounds kinda scary :-[
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 26, 2020, 04:50:44 PM
Post by: Abebee on February 26, 2020, 05:01:57 PM
Without even thinking about deaths, I'm Just thinking of industries that can be destroyed by this. even if it does not last too much longer:Plenty of Amazon sellers, mainly private label guys.
1)airlines. countries barring entry literally means planes will be parked. i cant imagine international airlines can survive if flights are halted for 3 months.
2)china production means our goods will be delayed, more expensive or supply will just be an issue.
3)If above happens, thats when it really affects the stock market. whcih causes financial issues overall.
sounds kinda scary :-[
Post by: yuneeq on February 26, 2020, 05:44:11 PM
Plenty of Amazon sellers, mainly private label guys.
Think much bigger
Post by: zagguru on February 26, 2020, 08:03:54 PM
why would this make Israel any less safe than the US?
Israel is not less safe, but the plane might be.
I am going to Miami in 3 weeks, and I am reconsidering that.
I wonder if this well result in people cancelling there passover trips.
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 26, 2020, 08:33:40 PM
Coronavirus in California: C.D.C. Confirms Possible Community Transmission Case https://nyti.ms/3c8O1KJ
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on February 26, 2020, 09:19:45 PM
It's happening.
Coronavirus in California: C.D.C. Confirms Possible Community Transmission Case https://nyti.ms/3c8O1KJ
Yeah, I have a flight there tomorrow...
Post by: Yammer on February 26, 2020, 11:09:47 PM
Without even thinking about deaths, I'm Just thinking of industries that can be destroyed by this. even if it does not last too much longer:#2= a serious#3
1)airlines. countries barring entry literally means planes will be parked. i cant imagine international airlines can survive if flights are halted for 3 months.
2)china production means our goods will be delayed, more expensive or supply will just be an issue.
3)If above happens, thats when it really affects the stock market. whcih causes financial issues overall.
sounds kinda scary :-[
Although a blessing in disguise as there are many businesses that moved out of China after the Trump uncertainty + tariffs.
Plenty of Amazon sellers, mainly private label guys.Your kidding?
How about furniture, electronics, shoes clothing or just about everything?
All the raw materials are sitting in China..
Then we have issues with the raw materials for all the drugs...
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2020, 12:00:14 AM
https://www.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20200227041900053?section=local/daegu-gyeongbuk/index
The US Has Its First Community Spread Coronavirus Case - CDC refused to test patient until 5 days later
https://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/newly-diagnosed-coronavirus-patient-being-treated-at-uc-davis-medical-center/
What We Know About the Coronavirus, From Symptoms to Who Is at Risk
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-we-know-about-the-wuhan-virus-11579716128
Post by: chff on February 27, 2020, 12:20:47 AM
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2020, 08:58:02 AM
BREAKING: Masoumeh Ebtekar, one of Iran's vice presidents, has tested positive for coronavirus - IRNA
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) February 27, 2020
Post by: Dan on February 27, 2020, 08:59:58 AM
Clearly a Zionist plot ;DBREAKING: Masoumeh Ebtekar, one of Iran's vice presidents, has tested positive for coronavirus - IRNA
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) February 27, 2020
Post by: Dan on February 27, 2020, 09:02:24 AM
Post by: stooges44 on February 27, 2020, 09:10:29 AM
Unlike a human judge who can only judge the person in front of him and does not take into account the man's family and friends, Hashem does not bring a "דין" to this world until everyone in the world deserves to be punished. In some way, we're all responsible for the market crashing and flights being cancelled - so even if you're not directly affected by this "pandemic," we're still chayiv to daven for the דין to be erased.
But I did get three seats to myself in the exit row because of it... so there's always some rachamim within the din.
Have a great shabbos,
R'Zvi
rabbizvizimmerman.com
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 27, 2020, 09:17:46 AM
For example, an operative helping presidential candidate X could start spreading pandemic fear on Super Tuesday/Israeli election day, to make people stay home.
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 09:19:29 AM
As for industry - while some of the interruptions are immediate, understand that there is going to be a supply chain lag - i.e. Stores/retailers have inventory now, as do some factories, and those factories and their suppliers have components at hand. But if this shuts down component manufacture, it will have a lagged impact on the consumer.
In other words - The Electronic Device you're going to buy in June, which will be manufactured in April will be delayed because of parts that were not made in February
Post by: shwarmabob on February 27, 2020, 09:28:28 AM
In other words - The Electronic Device you're going to buy in June, which will be manufactured in April will be delayed because of parts that were not made in FebruaryThat's all? I am hearing words about problems in the supply chain in the Kashrus world...
Post by: Ergel on February 27, 2020, 09:31:23 AM
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 09:35:37 AM
That's all? I am hearing words about problems in the supply chain in the Kashrus world...
I just gave that as an example, it would affect anything with a supply chain that's impacted, my point was the end consumer might not see the problem for a few months
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 09:36:00 AM
As stated above, as a non-citizen you won't get quarantined, you'd just be sent home. If you haven't been to Italy or the far east, I think there is very little chance of getting denied entry.
Thanks, this made feel a lot better.
Post by: zagguru on February 27, 2020, 09:39:42 AM
Thanks, this made feel a lot better.
I think the main issue is the flight. Thats the most likely place of catching anything.
Post by: Dan on February 27, 2020, 09:40:40 AM
I think the main issue is the flight. Thats the most likely place of catching anything.Can wear an N95 if you're nervous
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 09:51:01 AM
Can wear an N95 if you're nervous
Plan on it. But not sure I'll have the patience to wear it for 11 hours
Post by: Abey on February 27, 2020, 09:56:34 AM
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 27, 2020, 10:26:48 AM
Domestically, I'd be willing to fly right now.
Post by: zagguru on February 27, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
Domestically, I'd be willing to fly right now.
Right now is key. Who knows what will happen in 2 days.
Post by: aygart on February 27, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
That's all? I am hearing words about problems in the supply chain in the Kashrus world...At least we are past most (all?) pesach runs.
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2020, 11:30:56 AM
As for industry - while some of the interruptions are immediate, understand that there is going to be a supply chain lag - i.e. Stores/retailers have inventory now, as do some factories, and those factories and their suppliers have components at hand. But if this shuts down component manufacture, it will have a lagged impact on the consumer.
In other words - The Electronic Device you're going to buy in June, which will be manufactured in April will be delayed because of parts that were not made in February
Oh absolutely. Knew about this for a while already. Products that were shipped before CNY will have some short term stock but I'm expecting at least a 2 month delay on production on orders after CNY.
Post by: jj1000 on February 27, 2020, 11:33:07 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-warns-men-about-facial-hair-dangers-amid-coronavirus-fears(http://)Toothbrush looks more like a villain than villain does...
Post by: oldguy on February 27, 2020, 12:18:23 PM
IINM cancel for any reason isn't available in NY. It is available on some policies in most other states.It is avail with Allianz, when booked through an agent. PM for details
Post by: ExGingi on February 27, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
It is avail with Allianz, when booked through an agent. PM for details
You are correct. I missed that. Most people call me just before they leave, so they aren't really interested in that kind of coverage, and definitely won't pay for it.
Quote
Your clients can enjoy the extra flexibility of knowing they can cancel their trip for almost any unforeseen reason that the Classic plan does not already cover at 100% and receive 80% of their non-refundable trip cost back in cash. With features like comprehensive trip cancellation, primary emergency medical coverage and 24-hour travel assistance, the Classic with Cancel Anytime plan is there if life throws an unexpected wrench in your clients' travel plans. Plan must be purchased on or before the final trip payment date and must cover the full non-refundable trip cost ($10,000 maximum)
Post by: ah giten on February 27, 2020, 12:43:09 PM
You are correct. I missed that. Most people call me just before they leave, so they aren't really interested in that kind of coverage, and definitely won't pay for it.how much would sucha plan cost?
Post by: ExGingi on February 27, 2020, 12:53:51 PM
how much would sucha plan cost?It would obviously depend on the "full non-refundable trip cost" as well as other factors.
Post by: Dan on February 27, 2020, 01:36:55 PM
Post by: Denverite on February 27, 2020, 01:42:46 PM
https://www.facebook.com/CORKosher/photos/a.276299072448388/2746275255450745/?type=3&theater
Seriously, people are insane. There have only been a couple cases in the whole of Toronto and even if there were, not going to a kosher restaurant because of workers being immigrants from a certain country?? And all the people on here talking about cancelling travel plans that are nowhere near Asia or the Iranian city of Qom also seem like a total overreaction...
Post by: ltttc on February 27, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
Seriously, people are insane. There have only been a couple cases in the whole of Toronto and even if there were, not going to a kosher restaurant because of workers being immigrants from a certain country?? And all the people on here talking about cancelling travel plans that are nowhere near Asia or the Iranian city of Qom also seem like a total overreaction...Call me insane, but I'm uncomfortable traveling
Post by: jj1000 on February 27, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/CORKosher/photos/a.276299072448388/2746275255450745/?type=3&theaterFTR If I walk into a restaurant and the cook is wearing a "clinical mask" and surgeon gloves I'm walking right out and not looking back...
Post by: Denverite on February 27, 2020, 01:53:43 PM
Call me insane, but I'm uncomfortable traveling
Ok you got: You are insane :P
Seriously, the likelihood of getting it is SUPER small an then even if you did get it (assuming you are a healthy adult), the likelihood of you even having a case bad enough to go to the hospital is less than half, much less the likelihood of getting hospitalized and then having some kind of adverse outcome.
Post by: Denverite on February 27, 2020, 01:54:18 PM
FTR If I walk into a restaurant and the cook is wearing a "clinical mask" and surgeon gloves I'm walking right out and not looking back...
LOL...so true! They are making the perceptions way worse.... :o
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2020, 02:19:48 PM
Ok you got: You are insane :P
Seriously, the likelihood of getting it is SUPER small an then even if you did get it (assuming you are a healthy adult), the likelihood of you even having a case bad enough to go to the hospital is less than half, much less the likelihood of getting hospitalized and then having some kind of adverse outcome.
The likelihood of catching COVID19 isn't small, it's super contagious and the risk of catching during travel while unknown, it's certainly much higher risk than not traveling. And you're forgetting the chance of potentially getting quarantined for 14 days or denied entry. There's no way to plan for this, and there's no warnings. Italy was completely fine last week, but you'd have called someone crazy for canceling a trip to Milan.
Post by: gingyguy on February 27, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
LOL...so true! They are making the perceptions way worse.... :oI always say if i walk into a pizza store and see a picture of R Shayala Kerestirer, Ill find somewhere else to eat
Post by: Denverite on February 27, 2020, 02:32:20 PM
The likelihood of catching COVID19 isn't small, it's super contagious and the risk of catching during travel while unknown, it's certainly much higher risk than not traveling. And you're forgetting the chance of potentially getting quarantined for 14 days or denied entry. There's no way to plan for this, and there's no warnings. Italy was completely fine last week, but you'd have called someone crazy for canceling a trip to Milan.
The likelihood of catching it while next to someone who has it isn't small but the likelihood of catching it on any single flight is most definitely TEENY!
Of course it is more of a risk than not travelling but so what that is irrelevant. Every single action we take has risks and costs (just like their are risks and costs to inaction) the relevant thing is the COST vs. RISK to not travelling and THAT is what people should objectively weigh. I'm not advocating for unnecessary travel but do wish people would weigh appropriate risks to costs. You are right, if you've got a pleasure trip and want to cancel, great because your cost is virtually zero (although as your article shows, the costs to these economies and industries is huge) but if I had a business meeting outside of any of these hot zones there is no way I'm missing that opportunity for some very small risk.
It makes me sad that all these businesses are being affected by idiocy. I was teasing the above poster but when I used the word insane I was referencing people not going to a Kosher Chinese restaurant in Toronto because of Corona virus, which is more than insane, it's totally idiotic and also really sad for the owners and employees of that business.
Post by: shwarmabob on February 27, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
FTR If I walk into a restaurant and the cook is wearing a "clinical mask" and surgeon gloves I'm walking right out and not looking back...and if he doesn't that makes you more comfortable?
Post by: Yehudaa on February 27, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
https://www.facebook.com/CORKosher/photos/a.276299072448388/2746275255450745/?type=3&theaterI just came here to post that :)
It's our only surviving chinese place. I hope it can weather this storm.
Post by: whYME on February 27, 2020, 03:13:31 PM
https://www.facebook.com/CORKosher/photos/a.276299072448388/2746275255450745/?type=3&theaterMy gut feeling tells me that if this place is at risk of going under it's probably not actually because of coronavirus
Post by: Dan on February 27, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
My gut feeling tells me that if this place is at risk of going under it's probably not actually because of coronavirusToronto restaurants go out of business on a regular day. Wouldn't take much to close most down.
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 03:19:17 PM
https://www.facebook.com/CORKosher/photos/a.276299072448388/2746275255450745/?type=3&theater
Can you get a Corona beer with dinner?
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2020, 03:24:39 PM
The likelihood of catching it while next to someone who has it isn't small but the likelihood of catching it on any single flight is most definitely TEENY!
You are saying the risk on any single flight is TEENY as if that is a fact, but the risk may in fact be huge. We can't assess risk until we know how widespread the virus is and it takes time to find out. Are you traveling to a place that implemented extensive testing before a breakout, and has the proper protocols in place? Well, there isn't a single country that started testing potential cases before their breakouts. Italy, South Korea, Iran, and other countries are starting to find out now how many people were infected the last couple weeks. You don't think that any flight in those countries was pretty risky a week before they started confirming cases en masse?
Who is the next Italy - do you know? It can be Germany, Spain, Brazil, Canada, France, and heck maybe even the US.
Post by: Yonah on February 27, 2020, 03:29:24 PM
The Ministry of Health setup a quarantine registration site: https://govextra.gov.il/ministry-of-health/corona/corona-virus-en/
According to this catch-all update from the Times Of Israel - https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-suspends-flights-to-italy-thailand-over-1700-israelis-quarantined/, the Ministry of Health doesn't want you to come to the hospital if you came in contact or had symptoms. It wants you to call MDA, and have them come to check you out and determine what needs to happen.
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 27, 2020, 03:38:56 PM
Post by: aygart on February 27, 2020, 03:43:13 PM
You are saying the risk on any single flight is TEENY as if that is a fact, but the risk may in fact be huge. We can't assess risk until we know how widespread the virus is and it takes time to find out. Are you traveling to a place that implemented extensive testing before a breakout, and has the proper protocols in place? Well, there isn't a single country that started testing potential cases before their breakouts. Italy, South Korea, Iran, and other countries are starting to find out now how many people were infected the last couple weeks. You don't think that any flight in those countries was pretty risky a week before they started confirming cases en masse?
Who is the next Italy - do you know? It can be Germany, Spain, Brazil, Canada, France, and heck maybe even the US.
This is besides that in the closed cramped quarters of the plane it may be more likely to spread.
Post by: Denverite on February 27, 2020, 04:59:41 PM
You are saying the risk on any single flight is TEENY as if that is a fact, but the risk may in fact be huge. We can't assess risk until we know how widespread the virus is and it takes time to find out. Are you traveling to a place that implemented extensive testing before a breakout, and has the proper protocols in place? Well, there isn't a single country that started testing potential cases before their breakouts. Italy, South Korea, Iran, and other countries are starting to find out now how many people were infected the last couple weeks. You don't think that any flight in those countries was pretty risky a week before they started confirming cases en masse?
Who is the next Italy - do you know? It can be Germany, Spain, Brazil, Canada, France, and heck maybe even the US.
Again, you are mistaking statistical overall risk with incidental risk. Obviously, I can't know what your risk on one particular flight is but we can estimate the risk of taking one flight among thousands in a world of 7 billion people that even if they are undereported has maybe a couple hundred thousand cases. I'm trying to focus on the thought processes that cause hysteria. I also don't know when or where the next lightning strike will be but I do know my overall risk of getting struck is pretty low. But hey lots of people waste millions on lotto tickets too so I know people overestimate their odds for the both the positive and negative! :)
Two more interesting links from Israel:
The Ministry of Health setup a quarantine registration site: https://govextra.gov.il/ministry-of-health/corona/corona-virus-en/
According to this catch-all update from the Times Of Israel - https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-suspends-flights-to-italy-thailand-over-1700-israelis-quarantined/, the Ministry of Health doesn't want you to come to the hospital if you came in contact or had symptoms. It wants you to call MDA, and have them come to check you out and determine what needs to happen.
In this vein, my son's HS Yeshiva emailed us this morning that unless students are Israeli citizens they need to be aware that if they go to Italy or the Far East (I know he has classmates from Italy and Singapore and other boys may have been booked home via Alitalia) they won't be allowed back into Israel (and even if they are Israeli citizens they will need to be quarantined and the dorm is not an allowable place to do so) and they wanted to make sure all the boys understand and make appropriate plans for Pesach while the dorm is closed if they now can't go home. :-[ Right now my son is booked to fly home through LHR and back through CDG and I'm just hoping they stay off the government's banned area through Pesach or if they don't that BA & AA would be nice about rerouting them...
Post by: NTorch on February 27, 2020, 05:58:27 PM
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101
Post by: ltttc on February 27, 2020, 06:45:29 PM
Post by: zagguru on February 27, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
You are correct. I missed that. Most people call me just before they leave, so they aren't really interested in that kind of coverage, and definitely won't pay for it.
If anyone knows how I can sign up for this plan, please PM me
Post by: whYME on February 27, 2020, 07:51:47 PM
From the Jerusalem Post - "Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine'so basically they're saying that... more people will start dying now?
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101 (https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101)
(https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji48.png)
Post by: Jellybelly on February 27, 2020, 08:16:54 PM
From the Jerusalem Post - "Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine'Whats BDS gonna do?
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2020, 08:18:58 PM
This is besides that in the closed cramped quarters of the plane it may be more likely to spread.
Exactly
Again, you are mistaking statistical overall risk with incidental risk. Obviously, I can't know what your risk on one particular flight is but we can estimate the risk of taking one flight among thousands in a world of 7 billion people that even if they are undereported has maybe a couple hundred thousand cases. I'm trying to focus on the thought processes that cause hysteria. I also don't know when or where the next lightning strike will be but I do know my overall risk of getting struck is pretty low. But hey lots of people waste millions on lotto tickets too so I know people overestimate their odds for the both the positive and negative! :)
TLDR, I don't think you understand risk. Bottom line COVID-19 is a pandemic, traveling during a pandemic is risky and it will get increasingly risky until it peaks. There are literally cases in almost every country, and you don't need an entire infected flight to get infected. It can be a single passenger or more likely, a single FA that becomes a super spreader.
Post by: yelped on February 27, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
Whats BDS gonna do?Die 🙏
Post by: yuneeq on February 28, 2020, 08:24:43 AM
BREAKING: Mexico confirms first case of coronavirus https://t.co/eUoE2b20hL
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) February 28, 2020
Post by: yuneeq on February 28, 2020, 08:29:14 AM
Post by: NTorch on February 28, 2020, 08:30:06 AM
Whats BDS gonna do?
Let's hope they boycott.
Post by: Yonah on February 28, 2020, 08:40:38 AM
Whats BDS gonna do?
Most likely - insist that Israel give its formula to other countries so that they can manufacture the drug.
Post by: yuneeq on February 28, 2020, 08:43:16 AM
From the Jerusalem Post - "Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine'
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101
Not sure why people get excited about this. Almost every health official saying it's likely that the earliest vaccine will not be released until at least 12-18 months, and that's considered extremely quick. It won't stop the spread in the US right now. You can't simply inject billions of healthy people with a vaccine that hasn't gone through the clinical trials process.
Post by: aygart on February 28, 2020, 08:45:31 AM
Not sure why people get excited about this. Almost every health official saying it's likely that the earliest vaccine will not be released until at least 12-18 months, and that's considered extremely quick. It won't stop the spread in the US right now. You can't simply inject billions of healthy people with a vaccine that hasn't gone through the clinical trials process.Part of the advantage here is that they "Just happened" to e testing on coronaviruses already.
Post by: yuneeq on February 28, 2020, 08:51:20 AM
Part of the advantage here is that they "Just happened" to e testing on coronaviruses already.
Which puts them in the same boat as other researchers who have been doing the same. Clinical trials will take a while even if it's a good vaccine.
https://time.com/5790545/first-covid-19-vaccine/
Post by: NTorch on February 28, 2020, 08:56:26 AM
Part of the advantage here is that they "Just happened" to e testing on coronaviruses already.
Rec'd - 100%. Look at the hashgacha pratis - they were working on a vaccine for a different virus and when Covid-19 showed up they analyzed it and found that it was practically identical to what they were working on.
Post by: free123cc on February 28, 2020, 10:16:28 AM
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 28, 2020, 10:17:52 AM
Anyone think what will be with Pesach hotels if this thing spreads all over USA? Gonna be a issue*if
Post by: ltttc on February 28, 2020, 10:18:35 AM
Anyone think what will be with Pesach hotels if this thing spreads all over USA? Gonna be a issueLots of things will be in an issue if it indeed spreads
Post by: Yonah on February 28, 2020, 10:37:52 AM
Anyone think what will be with Pesach hotels if this thing spreads all over USA? Gonna be a issue
In Milan it seems that they've closed houses of worship down and are concerned about megila:
https://www.jta.org/2020/02/27/global/this-italian-jewish-kid-was-supposed-to-have-a-600-person-bar-mitzvah-party-then-coronavirus-hit
Post by: aygart on February 28, 2020, 10:46:20 AM
Anyone think what will be with Pesach hotels if this thing spreads all over USA? Gonna be a issueWhat about hotels in Israel as it stands now?
Post by: grodnoking on February 28, 2020, 10:53:31 AM
*if*when
Post by: yuneeq on February 28, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Another 2 deaths reported from the giant petri dish known as the Diamond Princess, raising the total to 6 deaths/705 confirmed cases/34 serious/10 recoveries. This massive real-life lab experiment should shed a lot of insight in the next month or so as to how deadly COVID really is, though the numbers need to be analyzed by each demographic group. So far it ain't looking good :(
Thinking about this a little more, the cruise might be good to study for pure death rates, but it won't account for deaths caused due to overcrowded hospitals/overburdened health system. And given that so far approximately 20% of cases are severe or critical, the CFR will vary greatly depending on a country's ability to treat patients.
Post by: efflpetzel on February 28, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
Crazy
Post by: Luvisrael on February 28, 2020, 02:24:36 PM
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 28, 2020, 02:27:04 PM
Should I be concerned to Wear clothing recently made In/ brought from China?no the bacteria cant live for so long in clothing
Post by: whYME on February 28, 2020, 02:28:56 PM
Should I be concerned to Wear clothing recently made In/ brought from China?Only if you're eating in a chinese restaurant.
That combination will kill you.
::)
Post by: ExGingi on February 28, 2020, 02:29:54 PM
Only if you're eating in a chinese restaurant.
That combination will kill you.
::)
And if the furniture you're sitting on is made in China - forget about it. You're doomed!
Post by: Luvisrael on February 28, 2020, 02:31:22 PM
no the bacteria cant live for so long in clothingwhats called so long? it was custom made very recently and shipped to me.
Also do you have a source?
Post by: Luvisrael on February 28, 2020, 02:33:03 PM
Can you get a Corona beer with dinner?i just heard on the radio that many people arent buying corona beer lol
Post by: as2 on February 28, 2020, 02:38:49 PM
i just heard on the radio that many people arent buying corona beer lolThose are the same people who googled "what is India" after hearing about Trumps trip.
Post by: Luvisrael on February 28, 2020, 02:41:23 PM
whats called so long? it was custom made very recently and shipped to me.My Indochino suit which arrived yesterday is still sitting on my porch. I really would like to see a source with facts as to if theres a risk or not before I wear it for shabbos
Also do you have a source?
Post by: ExGingi on February 28, 2020, 02:41:41 PM
i just heard on the radio that many people arent buying corona beer lol
Since the outset I've been telling people that the ultimate cure for Corona is Heineken.
Post by: Boruch Parnes on February 28, 2020, 02:45:22 PM
My Indochino suit which arrived yesterday is still sitting on my porch. I really would like to see a source with facts as to if theres a risk or not before I wear it for shabbosI remember seeing it somewhere cant find it now
Post by: Dan on February 28, 2020, 02:46:51 PM
Post by: Dan on February 28, 2020, 02:47:33 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51673053
Crazy
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/iran-to-sentence-citizens-who-spreads-rumors-about-coronavirus-to-flogging-three-years-in-prison/
Post by: NTorch on February 28, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
i just heard on the radio that many people arent buying corona beer lol
Its tasteless and a waste of calories
Post by: NTorch on February 28, 2020, 02:54:47 PM
My Indochino suit which arrived yesterday is still sitting on my porch. I really would like to see a source with facts as to if theres a risk or not before I wear it for shabbos
Dont you need to get it Shatnes checked first anyway?
Post by: shwarmabob on February 28, 2020, 02:59:00 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/iran-to-sentence-citizens-who-spreads-rumors-about-coronavirus-to-flogging-three-years-in-prison/The found the best healthcare solution! Flogging! Why do you think it doesn't work?
The Chinese also started out by sending the police to the doctor who warned about the virus.
Post by: Jellybelly on February 28, 2020, 03:09:52 PM
The found the best healthcare solution! Flogging! Why do you think it doesn't work?There are also reports of China shooting people that were sick
The Chinese also started out by sending the police to the doctor who warned about the virus.
Post by: aygart on February 28, 2020, 03:11:59 PM
Since the outset I've been telling people that the ultimate cure for Corona is Heineken.And here I thought it was Heinekin which needed a cure.
Post by: NTorch on February 28, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
Since the outset I've been telling people that the ultimate cure for Corona is Heineken.
Heineken is a Euro MacroLager with only slightly more taste than Corona.
Its not a cure for anything other than thirst on a hot day.
Post by: efflpetzel on February 28, 2020, 04:00:28 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/iran-to-sentence-citizens-who-spreads-rumors-about-coronavirus-to-flogging-three-years-in-prison/I highly commend the Iranian authorities on their inaction, long may it continue
Post by: Luvisrael on February 28, 2020, 04:31:19 PM
It's fine. Can't survive on surfaces for any extended period of time.Why than do they spray down buildings , airplanes etc.?
Post by: chucksterace on February 28, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
Why than do they spray down buildings , airplanes etc.?
Can never be too safe, maybe someone just touched it? Trying to clean it 100%
Post by: Denverite on February 28, 2020, 06:20:52 PM
"For the moment, we are not witnessing the uncontained global spread of this virus and we are not witnessing large-scale severe disease or deaths," Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director general, said.
"Does this virus have pandemic potential? Absolutely it has. Are we there yet from our assessment? Not yet."
He added: "I have spoken consistently about the need for facts not fear, using the word pandemic now does not fit the facts but may certainly cause fear."
I try really hard to not make things personal on DDF and people posting on this thread seem very caring and like they are trying to help people but please guys dont casually use very frightening, serious and untrue words (I wish Pandemic wasnt even in the title of the thread). Please everyone just stay informed. Always best to protect yourself but also to wait and see what actually happens without falling prey to mass hysteria.
Here is a great article today out of Johns Hopkins directly comparing the Corona Virus to the flu, so people can see the differences and similarities:
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu)
Post by: Luvisrael on February 29, 2020, 07:21:35 PM
Post by: pointer on February 29, 2020, 07:34:26 PM
https://newsroom.hyatt.com/news-releases?item=123947Some people got an extension just by calling.
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/hyatt-extending-status-free-night-certificates-for-some-due-to-covid-19/
Post by: ExGingi on February 29, 2020, 07:38:16 PM
Post by: Shkop on February 29, 2020, 08:08:15 PM
Post by: Shkop on February 29, 2020, 08:14:47 PM
Maybe its time for Shuls and Yeshivos to incorporate Tihilim into the davening, if they haven't already....
Post by: ExGingi on February 29, 2020, 08:35:02 PM
Maybe its time for Shuls and Yeshivos to incorporate Tihilim into the davening, if they haven't already....Will CBC approve?
Post by: SSLPhD on February 29, 2020, 08:50:55 PM
no the bacteria cant live for so long in clothingVirus ≠ bacteria
And viruses aren't "alive."
This is an interesting article about how long viruses remain viable outside of a host. (The article is an older article and is not talking about the current coronavirus, but is likely similar, as coronaviruses are enveloped, as well.)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-long-do-cold-and-flu-viruses-stay-contagious-on-public-surfaces
Post by: Luvisrael on February 29, 2020, 09:04:28 PM
Virus ≠ bacteriaThanks! Very informative!
And viruses aren't "alive."
This is an interesting article about how long viruses remain viable outside of a host. (The article is an older article and is not talking about the current coronavirus, but is likely similar, as coronaviruses are enveloped, as well.)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-long-do-cold-and-flu-viruses-stay-contagious-on-public-surfaces
Post by: stooges44 on February 29, 2020, 09:04:36 PM
A patient with a suspected case of the coronavirus is being treated at Bayshore Medical Center in Holmdel, NJ. The person is being held in isolation while the hospital awaits the results of a test for the virus. It will be a few days before the test is returned.
Maybe its time for Shuls and Yeshivos to incorporate Tihilim into the davening, if they haven't already....
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/patient-at-nj-hospital-being-treated-for-possible-covid-19-spokesperson/2307236/
A patient at Bayshore Medical Center in Holmdel, New Jersey has tested negative for the novel coronavirus, officials said.
Post by: Shkop on February 29, 2020, 09:21:03 PM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/patient-at-nj-hospital-being-treated-for-possible-covid-19-spokesperson/2307236/that's good to know.
A patient at Bayshore Medical Center in Holmdel, New Jersey has tested negative for the novel coronavirus, officials said.
Post by: zagguru on February 29, 2020, 09:41:53 PM
It is avail with Allianz, when booked through an agent. PM for details
After checking the details, it does not cover Coronavirus even though it is a cancel anytime plan. Something to do with an exclusion for epidemic
Post by: aygart on February 29, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
Post by: Freddie on February 29, 2020, 10:00:40 PM
Post by: yuneeq on February 29, 2020, 10:08:35 PM
Direct quote from The head of WHO today in The Telegraph:
"For the moment, we are not witnessing the uncontained global spread of this virus and we are not witnessing large-scale severe disease or deaths," Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director general, said.
"Does this virus have pandemic potential? Absolutely it has. Are we there yet from our assessment? Not yet."
He added: "I have spoken consistently about the need for facts not fear, using the word pandemic now does not fit the facts but may certainly cause fear."
I try really hard to not make things personal on DDF and people posting on this thread seem very caring and like they are trying to help people but please guys dont casually use very frightening, serious and untrue words (I wish Pandemic wasnt even in the title of the thread). Please everyone just stay informed. Always best to protect yourself but also to wait and see what actually happens without falling prey to mass hysteria.
Here is a great article today out of Johns Hopkins directly comparing the Corona Virus to the flu, so people can see the differences and similarities:
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu)
I find it funny youre quoting the WHO, theyve been having a problem with doublespeak recently. Most concerning the word pandemic, which they suddenly erased from their dictionary when the virus became a pandemic using their own criteria.
https://fortune.com/2020/02/25/coronavirus-pandemic-who/
Post by: etech0 on February 29, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
After checking the details, it does not cover Coronavirus even though it is a cancel anytime plan. Something to do with an exclusion for epidemicWhat if you don't tell them why you are cancelling? Cancel Anytime should work if you just "changed your mind"...?
Post by: zagguru on March 01, 2020, 07:14:38 AM
What if you don't tell them why you are cancelling? Cancel Anytime should work if you just "changed your mind"...?
@ExGingi could explain it better
Post by: zagguru on March 01, 2020, 07:17:50 AM
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/hyatt-extending-status-free-night-certificates-for-some-due-to-covid-19/
Post by: shapsam on March 01, 2020, 10:00:12 AM
An excellent speech by Singapore’s Health Minister Mr. Gan Kim Yong.
— Azhar Laghari (@AzharAliLeghari) February 28, 2020
An excellent way of describing #coronavirus #CoronaVirusUpdates pic.twitter.com/SWFWgYnp3T
Post by: oldguy on March 01, 2020, 02:06:48 PM
@ExGingi could explain it betterWhat does that mean? I can't see why it shouldn't work
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 02:06:54 PM
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3053008/coronavirus-dont-bank-epidemic-easing-summer-scientists-say
Summary from 25 WHO experts report
https://old.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fbt49e/the_who_sent_25_international_experts_to_china/
With this update, the number of fatalities worldwide has reached 3,000. More than 88,000 confirmed cases, of which 42,417 people have recovered. https://t.co/fwXixmbGpt
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) March 1, 2020
Post by: ExGingi on March 01, 2020, 03:06:40 PM
What does that mean? I can't see why it shouldn't work
As per Allianz (confirmed with them over the phone) even with the Cancel Anytime policy, there are several exclusions. One of those exclusions is an Epidemic. They stated that if cancellation is directly or indirectly related to the COVID-19 outbreak, it would not be covered.
So if you "changed your mind" would you be willing to sign a sworn statement that it is unrelated to COVID-19?
I would sincerely hope that the established operators have proper insurance to cover them. A program could easily colapse with a travel ban, lack of bookings, cancellations, supply disruptions, etc.
Post by: srap on March 01, 2020, 03:17:05 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
Excellent articles @yuneeq, thank you!
YW :)
A lot of my content comes from same few places, so started a wiki, anyone feel free to add to it.
Post by: Hjay on March 01, 2020, 05:11:06 PM
Louvre closed today
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 05:21:00 PM
https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Israel-confirms-three-m-more-cases-of-coronavirus-619446
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 05:39:36 PM
https://new.thescoopradioshow.com/concern-in-sarasota-county-after-a-document-on-doctors-hospital-letter-head-advises-the-public-that-a-presumptive-case-has-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 08:01:58 PM
Statement from New York Governor Cuomo on the state's first case of coronavirus https://t.co/eUoE2b20hL pic.twitter.com/2ZXcq9dHqI
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) March 2, 2020
Post by: Yammer on March 01, 2020, 08:02:41 PM
BREAKING! 1st case in NYHere we go...Statement from New York Governor Cuomo on the state's first case of coronavirus https://t.co/eUoE2b20hL pic.twitter.com/2ZXcq9dHqI
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) March 2, 2020
Post by: ExGingi on March 01, 2020, 08:30:27 PM
Here we go...Anyone thinking this wont be all over (at least like the Flu) is in denial IMHO. I do think containment protocols will change, as school closures and massive lockdowns Wuhan style will not work globally. There will be increased awareness to hand washing, less handshakes and kisses, and lots of sanitizing. Clorox, Lysol, Purell etc will see an exponential growth in sales.
With time a vaccine (as effective as the flu shot FWIW) will come, as well as better treatment protocols lowering the mortality rate.
Post by: yesitsme on March 01, 2020, 08:34:47 PM
Anyone thinking this wont be all over (at least like the Flu) is in denial IMHO. I do think containment protocols will change, as school closures and massive lockdowns Wuhan style will not work globally. There will be increased awareness to hand washing, less handshakes and kisses, and lots of sanitizing. Clorox, Lysol, Purell etc will see an exponential growth in sales.how will it effect Purim?
With time a vaccine (as effective as the flu shot FWIW) will come, as well as better treatment protocols lowering the mortality rate.
Post by: whYME on March 01, 2020, 08:38:49 PM
Anyone thinking this wont be all over (at least like the Flu) is in denial IMHO.I think the real question is not whether it'll spread, rather it's if all the hysteria is justified?
i.e. is there any reason to be significantly more concerned with this than the flu?
Post by: pointer on March 01, 2020, 08:40:25 PM
how will it effect Purim?Everyone will be wearing masks :)
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
Anyone thinking this wont be all over (at least like the Flu) is in denial IMHO. I do think containment protocols will change, as school closures and massive lockdowns Wuhan style will not work globally. There will be increased awareness to hand washing, less handshakes and kisses, and lots of sanitizing. Clorox, Lysol, Purell etc will see an exponential growth in sales.
With time a vaccine (as effective as the flu shot FWIW) will come, as well as better treatment protocols lowering the mortality rate.
Most people I speak think "it's just the flu, what are you worried about". Each and every one of these updates are so obviously predicted to anyone paying attention.
how will it effect Purim?
It won't, but it should.
Post by: Dan on March 01, 2020, 08:44:22 PM
I think the real question is not whether it'll spread, rather it's if all the hysteria is justified?It's more contagious then the flu and far, far more deadly.
i.e. is there any reason to be significantly more concerned with this than the flu?
Post by: grodnoking on March 01, 2020, 08:44:35 PM
It won't, but it should.
Alchol kills germs, no?
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 08:46:10 PM
I think the real question is not whether it'll spread, rather it's if all the hysteria is justified?
i.e. is there any reason to be significantly more concerned with this than the flu?
Absolutely justified, first being the death rate being 20-30x higher than the flu. Next is the hospitalization rate that is 20x higher than the flu. That in itself overloads hospitals and kills people. I'd say there isn't hysteria, if you've been paying attention, most health agencies have been downplaying it, for good reason, but not for the reason you're thinking of.
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 08:49:02 PM
Post by: yesitsme on March 01, 2020, 08:54:22 PM
Nothing going on its all media hype, turn off your radio and enjoy the weather
Post by: whYME on March 01, 2020, 08:57:59 PM
far, far more deadly.
Absolutely justified, first being the death rate being 20-30x higher than the flu.
Do you have real numbers on this? because what I've seen (and admittedly I haven't been following too closely) seemed to indicate otherwise.
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 09:00:39 PM
Do you have real numbers on this? because what I've seen (and admittedly I haven't been following too closely) seemed to indicate otherwise.
Check the wiki. The only numbers that might indicate otherwise is the total deaths caused by COVID19, those are still lower than the flu, simply because it hasn't had the chance to spread yet. But looking forward, not backwards, it's incomparable.
Post by: whYME on March 01, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
it's incomparable.The mortality rate is not comparable?
Post by: AJK on March 01, 2020, 09:19:08 PM
The mortality rate is not comparable?
Yes. COVID19 must more deadly.
Post by: Yehudaa on March 01, 2020, 10:13:02 PM
The mortality rate is not comparable?I'm no scientist or mathematician but the mortality rate on confirmed cases seems much higher (2-3% vs. 0.1%), though it's possible that there are huge numbers of undiagnosed cases that would being that rate way down.
Also, even if the mortality rate is the same or lower, IF it's much more contagious than the flu then far more people could get infected and it could be deadlier overall than the flu even with a lower mortality rate, no?
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-sarasota-manatee/first-coronavirus-case-confirmed-in-florida
Post by: Shkop on March 01, 2020, 10:59:17 PM
Post by: Yammer on March 01, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
Anyone thinking this wont be all over (at least like the Flu) is in denial IMHO. I do think containment protocols will change, as school closures and massive lockdowns Wuhan style will not work globally. There will be increased awareness to hand washing, less handshakes and kisses, and lots of sanitizing. Clorox, Lysol, Purell etc will see an exponential growth in sales.
With time a vaccine (as effective as the flu shot FWIW) will come, as well as better treatment protocols lowering the mortality rate.
+100
The point is this isn't going away any time soon
I'm no scientist or mathematician but the mortality rate on confirmed cases seems much higher (2-3% vs. 0.1%), though it's possible that there are huge numbers of undiagnosed cases that would being that rate way down.
Also, even if the mortality rate is the same or lower, IF it's much more contagious than the flu then far more people could get infected and it could be deadlier overall than the flu even with a lower mortality rate, no?
1. You have many undiagnosed cases of the flu as well.
2. No one has a clue of what the real rate as China is definitely flubbing the numbers... They went from 76,000 to 80,000 confirmed cases in the last week...
Post by: yesitsme on March 01, 2020, 11:37:57 PM
Should I be concerned to Wear clothing recently made In/ brought from China?
source: https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses (https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses)
Quote
Is it safe to receive a package from any area where COVID-19 has been reported?
Yes. The likelihood of an infected person contaminating commercial goods is low and the risk of catching the virus that causes COVID-19 from a package that has been moved, travelled, and exposed to different conditions and temperature is also low.
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 11:52:06 PM
w. No one has a clue of what the real rate as China is definitely flubbing the numbers... They went from 76,000 to 80,000 confirmed cases in the last week...
Just look at the breakdown by province, Zhejiang, Jiangxi, 1 death a piece which is less than 0.1% CFR. Jiangsu 631 cases and no fatalities. A bunch of the biggest provinces under 1%. While Hubei is at 4.2%, and a few smaller provinces at 2-4% despite far fewer cases. Comparing the provinces numbers to states/countries both in & out of China, they don't add up.
Post by: yuneeq on March 01, 2020, 11:54:24 PM
Was able to predict the numbers with scary foresight until China caught on like a week later.
Post by: ilherman on March 01, 2020, 11:57:44 PM
And I have the same question about the flu. I hear the media talking about tens of thousands people dying from it. I live in a neighborhood where almost everybody got the flu this season and NO ONE has died. What am I missing?
Post by: Boruch Parnes on March 02, 2020, 12:01:23 AM
I am trying to understand, when we talk about this being deadly, does this mean perfectly healthy people who get it are at risk to die? Or we are talking about sick, half dead people who caught it and have died in the process? If the later is true why is no one talking about it?much bigger chance for sick/older people to die
And I have the same question about the flu. I hear the media talking about tens of thousands people dying from it. I live in a neighborhood where almost everybody got the flu this season and NO ONE has died. What am I missing?
Post by: ilherman on March 02, 2020, 12:04:11 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 02, 2020, 12:07:04 AM
I am trying to understand, when we talk about this being deadly, does this mean perfectly healthy people who get it are at risk to die? Or we are talking about sick, half dead people who caught it and have died in the process? If the later is true why is no one talking about it?
And I have the same question about the flu. I hear the media talking about tens of thousands people dying from it. I live in a neighborhood where almost everybody got the flu this season and NO ONE has died. What am I missing?
Everyone is at risk, but at different levels. Healthy people can die, but most likely age 50 and up. Then there are people that might not be sick, but have a pre-existing condition like heart issues, are at a far greater risk. And the highest risk would be someone that is already sick and/or old. Then there's the secondary risk - 20% of cases require hospitalization (flu is at about 1.5%), and usually a minimum of 3 weeks. This overloads hospitals and means patients might not get treated during outbreak. Increases odds of death, just look at Hubei's numbers for an idea.
Post by: yesitsme on March 02, 2020, 12:18:42 AM
Post by: ExGingi on March 02, 2020, 12:53:51 AM
Anyone thinking this wont be all over (at least like the Flu) is in denial IMHO. I do think containment protocols will change, as school closures and massive lockdowns Wuhan style will not work globally. There will be increased awareness to hand washing, less handshakes and kisses, and lots of sanitizing. Clorox, Lysol, Purell etc will see an exponential growth in sales.
With time a vaccine (as effective as the flu shot FWIW) will come, as well as better treatment protocols lowering the mortality rate.
I forgot to mention that I also think that "keep your hands below your neckline" is going to become common knowledge and taught in kindergartens. It has been a known tip for avoiding many illnesses that come from bacteria and viruses, but will now become as common as the instructions for brushing teeth and washing hands.
Post by: ExGingi on March 02, 2020, 01:36:21 AM
Post by: yesitsme on March 02, 2020, 01:42:24 AM
Post by: Yammer on March 02, 2020, 01:56:37 AM
There's also this gem - https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/ez13dv/oc_quadratic_coronavirus_epidemic_growth_model/Interesting.
Was able to predict the numbers with scary foresight until China caught on like a week later.
Would love to see his continued prediction
Post by: ilherman on March 02, 2020, 10:02:08 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 02, 2020, 12:55:04 PM
The number of confirmed cases of coronavirus has reached 90,000. The number of cases outside China has surpassed 10,000.
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) March 2, 2020
Post by: stooges44 on March 02, 2020, 03:51:58 PM
pandemic related price gouging on amazon
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/tech/amazon-coronavirus-products/index.html
Post by: yuneeq on March 02, 2020, 09:23:36 PM
Don't worry about visiting Florida! People in Florida are immune to Coronavirus, as long as censorship is in place.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html
More dangerous than the virus is the fear it causes. Some level of censorship should be in place to protect stupid Americans from themselves.
Not that the government should stop the media from posting things, but the government should withhold certain facts that the people don't have to know.
1st case in Florida? Censored?
https://new.thescoopradioshow.com/concern-in-sarasota-county-after-a-document-on-doctors-hospital-letter-head-advises-the-public-that-a-presumptive-case-has-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/
Censored, indeed. (https://www.wptv.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/florida-officials-waited-for-more-than-24-hours-to-tell-the-public-about-confirmed-coronavirus-cases)
If you live in/visiting Florida, do you trust the public officials to tell the truth? Does this censorship make us safer?
Great quote from the original article - "And if theres a confirmed case, it will absolutely be reported. -Surgeon General Scott Rivkees
Post by: yuneeq on March 02, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-confusion-miami-woman-allegedly-denied-proper-testing/
Post by: Muhammad on March 03, 2020, 05:38:03 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 03, 2020, 08:08:09 AM
Post by: ExGingi on March 03, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israel-could-consider-placing-US-travelers-to-Israel-under-quarantine-619608
Since I don't tend to believe media outlets, much less so Israeli ones, I will take this with a teaspoon of salt.
That being said, if indeed this is being considered, someone should give these guys a huge wakeup זעץ.
14 day quarantines will do close to nothing. You can't take Wuhan style measures all over the world. This is and will continue spreading. Education as to avoidance is the most that can be done. You can't fight a coming hurricane or tsunami, but you could prepare with protective measures. Those protective measures don't include suicide (which is fool proof, as we've never heard of catastrophies happening to the dead).
Post by: Boruch Parnes on March 03, 2020, 09:33:32 AM
Since I don't tend to believe media outlets, much less so Israeli ones, I will take this with a teaspoon of salt.health ministry says its fake news
That being said, if indeed this is being considered, someone should give these guys a huge wakeup זעץ.
14 day quarantines will do close to nothing. You can't take Wuhan style measures all over the world. This is and will continue spreading. Education as to avoidance is the most that can be done. You can't fight a coming hurricane or tsunami, but you could prepare with protective measures. Those protective measures don't include suicide (which is fool proof, as we've never heard of catastrophies happening to the dead).
Post by: yuneeq on March 03, 2020, 09:36:07 AM
Another confirmed case in NY.
Westchester Day School is closed, in addition to SAR Academy. Both schools are associated with the Westchester County man who has tested positive.
Post by: m65 on March 03, 2020, 09:55:17 AM
health ministry says its fake newswas listening to israeli radio this morning. interview with some professor from the health dept. he said they were considering it
Post by: Shmobaum on March 03, 2020, 09:59:30 AM
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
Name for tehillim אליעזר יצחק בן שפרה
Post by: stooges44 on March 03, 2020, 10:14:24 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1837239/developing-three-jewish-schools-in-new-york-closed-due-coronavirus.html
Name for tehillim אליעזר יצחק בן שפרה
Hashem Yirachem!
This is much more meaningful now:
Anyone think what will be with Pesach hotels if this thing spreads all over USA? Gonna be a issue
Post by: Galitzyaner on March 03, 2020, 10:23:17 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1837239/developing-three-jewish-schools-in-new-york-closed-due-coronavirus.htmlAny reports yet how/where he caught it?
Name for tehillim אליעזר יצחק בן שפרה
All they're saying is that he's from/in NY and visited Miami.
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 10:29:40 AM
Post by: Dan on March 03, 2020, 10:35:34 AM
Given the incubation period and the fact that its a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.Time to stop hugging and shaking hands...
Post by: stooges44 on March 03, 2020, 10:38:22 AM
Time to stop hugging and shaking hands...
http://cdn.jwplayer.com/players/4p3gVnKv-XLzx33eA.html
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 10:40:25 AM
Post by: zagguru on March 03, 2020, 10:40:37 AM
Time to stop hugging and shaking hands...
Time to stop flying?
Post by: ExGingi on March 03, 2020, 11:16:31 AM
Time to stop flying?
Not as potentially dangerous and handshakes. Though maybe one should be carrying disinfectant wipes everywhere and wipe hands after each contact.
Post by: Luvisrael on March 03, 2020, 11:41:06 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1837239/developing-three-jewish-schools-in-new-york-closed-due-coronavirus.htmlall of a sudden YWN is legit on here?
Name for tehillim אליעזר יצחק בן שפרה
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 12:00:59 PM
all of a sudden YWN is legit on here?
The schools are closed so I dont understand the skepticism. Are you doubting that his name?
Post by: Luvisrael on March 03, 2020, 12:06:07 PM
The schools are closed so I dont understand the skepticism. Are you doubting that his name?nope.
Post by: good sam on March 03, 2020, 12:15:22 PM
Post by: grodnoking on March 03, 2020, 12:18:21 PM
Read somewhere that hand sanitizer only kills bacteria, not viruses. Anyone know if that's true?Fake news. Make sure it has at least 60% alcohol content thou.
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 12:31:16 PM
Given the incubation period and the fact that its a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.
No, all it means that there was exposure to someone who had the virus, not that the virus itself was contracted.
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 12:53:56 PM
No, all it means that there was exposure to someone who had the virus, not that the virus itself was contracted.?
Theres no guarantee that it was transmitted but given the pattern weve seen with the virus if he went to shul while contagious and there is a lag time where people are contagious before onset of symptoms there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community.
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 12:54:06 PM
https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2020/03/03/lawyer-is-the-2nd-new-yorker-confirmed-with-coronavirus-diagnosis-report
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 12:57:04 PM
?
If he went to shul while contagious and there is a lag time where people are contagious before onset of symptoms there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community.
I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that he spread the virus. Yes he was in the same shul with people, but that only means that they were exposed to someone with the virus, not that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him."
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2020, 01:00:23 PM
I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that he spread the virus. Yes he was in the same shul with people, but that only means that they were exposed to someone with the virus, not that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him."Doesn't there being exposed create a likeleyhood that was not there had they not been exposed?
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 01:10:10 PM
Doesn't there being exposed create a likeleyhood that was not there had they not been exposed?
Being exposed to someone with a disease does not mean that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
Merely being in the same room with someone is not enough to catch this.
Even shaking his hand would not be enough if he did not have secretions on his hand and the person who shook his hand did not go to his own mouth or nose with his hand afterwards.
Although it is possible that someone could have caught it, I think that its a leap to say that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
Post by: ExGingi on March 03, 2020, 01:20:13 PM
Even shaking his hand would not be enough if he did not have secretions on his hand and the person who shook his hand did not go to his own mouth or nose with his hand afterwards.
I would think that the likelihood of infected person A not having the virus on his hands and of person B not touching his mouth, nose or eyes without proper washing UNLESS THERE WAS AN ACUTE AWARENESS is extremely low.
Post by: avromie7 on March 03, 2020, 01:22:35 PM
I would think that the likelihood of infected person A not having the virus on his hands and of person B not touching his mouth, nose or eyes without proper washing UNLESS THERE WAS AN ACUTE AWARENESS is extremely low.+1000, additionally if Person A touched a door etc. it can easily have spread to many people. I think even with awareness the chances of everyone "doing everything right" is very low.
Post by: stooges44 on March 03, 2020, 01:24:42 PM
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 01:27:20 PM
Quote
The following message was sent by Rabbi Aaron Glatt, MD, a specialist in infectious diseases, the assistant rabbi and the Young Israel if Woodmere, and father of former K.I.N.S. members, Ari and Michelle Glatt.
May you have a Shabbat Shalom, and may all who are affected by this illness have a refuah shlaima!
February 28, 2020
ג׳ אדר תש״פ
While the new novel coronavirus, COVID-19, has caused illness that has been widely covered in the news media, and the number of cases worldwide has grown substantially with 80,000+ confirmed cases worldwide in about 40 countries, there are still no confirmed cases of COVID-19 in New York State or the New York metropolitan region. However, with the first case of unclear transmission in the US just described in California, we wanted to update our shul goers.
There are currently no specific recommendations for shuls, although we will continue to update the shul should new information become available.
If you have not traveled to an area where COVID-19 is prevalent or been in close contact with a traveler, and you develop respiratory symptoms, it remains likely that you have a seasonal illness like the flu rather than COVID-19.
At the present time, we urge common-sense and regular hand washing (as appropriate), with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, or with an alcohol-based hand sanitizer if soap and water are not available.
Good personal hygiene practices, including covering coughs and sneezes are also important. To do this optimally, cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, and then throw the tissue in the trash and wash your hands. If you dont have a tissue available, cough or sneeze into your elbow.
Other appropriate actions include avoiding touching your eyes, nose and mouth and disinfect objects and surfaces that are frequently handled.
At this time, we do not have a strict recommendation against hand shaking or kissing the sefer Torah or mezzuzos for people who are not at all sick. Use common sense.
The CDC does NOT recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19. Facemasks should only be used by lay people who have symptoms of respiratory diseases, and who must be in public - to help prevent the spread of the disease to others.
Most importantly, several great poskim have personally told me and clearly stated that one must stay home and not go to shul if you are sick with a potentially contagious respiratory illness.
This is a good time to remind everyone that over 30,000,000 people in the US this season have gotten flu, with between 16,000-30,000 deaths, including over 100 children. Flu vaccination is still indicated! By not getting or transmitting flu, you will not only save lives, but you will greatly help doctors who will have less patients to evaluate with unknown respiratory illnesses.
We should make sure there are alcohol-based hand sanitizers in the lobby areas. Custodial staff should be diligently cleaning our shuls and checking dispensers for hand soap and hand sanitizer to ensure that they are filled at all times.
If you recently traveled to a country with ongoing person-to-person transmission of COVID-19: As long as you are asymptomatic, you are probably not a risk to others. However, it is prudent to check your temperature twice a day and monitor for any respiratory symptoms for at least 14 days from the time you left that country. If you have any symptoms or fever, see your doctor as soon as possible, but call the office or center first so they can appropriately isolate you upon entry to the office before they evaluate you.
May our teffilos be accepted by Hashem and may this epidemic soon end.
Rabbi Aaron E. Glatt, MD
Post by: avromie7 on March 03, 2020, 01:30:01 PM
What is the reasoning behind the school closings today? To disinfect the schools is one thing but if any of the kids or staff ch'v did get infected they will just bring it back tomorrow so what was gained other then adding to the hysteria?My guess is they closed for one day and are reevaluating and will probably be closed for a few weeks.
Post by: ilherman on March 03, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
Post by: avromie7 on March 03, 2020, 01:45:54 PM
Interesting why no one is reporting where he caught it fromBecause no one knows
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 02:21:17 PM
Being exposed to someone with a disease does not mean that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
Merely being in the same room with someone is not enough to catch this.
Even shaking his hand would not be enough if he did not have secretions on his hand and the person who shook his hand did not go to his own mouth or nose with his hand afterwards.
Although it is possible that someone could have caught it, I think that its a leap to say that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
I sincerely hope you turn out to be right. Unfortunately I highly doubt it.
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
I sincerely hope you turn out to be right. Unfortunately I highly doubt it.
Here's my non-rabbinical take on this as far as going to shul.
It comes down to shomer pesayim Hashem vs ein somchin al ha neis.
If you know that the community has an outbreak then don't go to shul where the outbreak is because ein somchin al ha neis.
In the absence of actual knowledge of an issue - shomer pesayim Hashem and go on with your normal avodas Hashem.
I'm going to conduct myself this way until my Rav advises to the contrary.
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2020, 02:46:09 PM
Being exposed to someone with a disease does not mean that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."a likelyhood and likely are not the same thing.
Merely being in the same room with someone is not enough to catch this.
Even shaking his hand would not be enough if he did not have secretions on his hand and the person who shook his hand did not go to his own mouth or nose with his hand afterwards.
Although it is possible that someone could have caught it, I think that its a leap to say that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
Post by: Dawie on March 03, 2020, 02:50:45 PM
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 02:51:54 PM
a likelyhood and likely are not the same thing.
Sorry, but that's 100% incorrect.
Quote
Dictionary
Search for a word
likelihood
/ˈlīklēˌho͝od/
noun
the state or fact of something's being likely; probability.
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 03, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO/status/1234871807800479744
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2020, 03:06:00 PM
Sorry, but that's 100% incorrect.Okay, so now we are discussing reading comprehension of the dictionary. lol.QuoteDictionary
Search for a word
likelihood
/ˈlīklēˌho͝od/
noun
the state or fact of something's being likely; probability.
Yes, it is a state of something's being likely. A probability. This means that something with a 5% chance is a likelihood. If there is a known exposure tht creates a likelihood. What are the odds? figure it out.
Post by: Yammer on March 03, 2020, 03:35:39 PM
Since I don't tend to believe media outlets, much less so Israeli ones, I will take this with a teaspoon of salt.
That being said, if indeed this is being considered, someone should give these guys a huge wakeup זעץ.
14 day quarantines will do close to nothing. You can't take Wuhan style measures all over the world. This is and will continue spreading. Education as to avoidance is the most that can be done. You can't fight a coming hurricane or tsunami, but you could prepare with protective measures. Those protective measures don't include suicide (which is fool proof, as we've never heard of catastrophies happening to the dead).
I believe that our Commander in Chief has been evaluating the use of Nukes to stop tsunamis...
Given the incubation period and the fact that its a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.
+100
I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that he spread the virus. Yes he was in the same shul with people, but that only means that they were exposed to someone with the virus, not that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him."
The point wasn't if he was spreading it or not. The point is that a shul that he went to multiple times over the past 2 weeks had an individual with the virus.
What is the reasoning behind the school closings today? To disinfect the schools is one thing but if any of the kids or staff ch'v did get infected they will just bring it back tomorrow so what was gained other then adding to the hysteria?
Maybes they will stay closed for 14 days
Post by: ExGingi on March 03, 2020, 03:36:23 PM
This doesn't bode well for the hope that most cases were too mild to be found.https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020
https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO/status/1234871807800479744
Some things here are incongruent with what was previously (and possibly currently) reported:
Quote
Both COVID-19 and influenza cause respiratory disease and spread the same way, via small droplets of fluid from the nose and mouth of someone who is sick.
However, there are some important differences between COVID-19 and influenza.
First, COVID-19 does not transmit as efficiently as influenza, from the data we have so far.
With influenza, people who are infected but not yet sick are major drivers of transmission, which does not appear to be the case for COVID-19.
Quote
And fourth, we dont even talk about containment for seasonal flu its just not possible. But it is possible for COVID-19. We dont do contact tracing for seasonal flu but countries should do it for COVID-19, because it will prevent infections and save lives. Containment is possible.::)
Quote
To summarize, COVID-19 spreads less efficiently than flu, transmission does not appear to be driven by people who are not sick, it causes more severe illness than flu, there are not yet any vaccines or therapeutics, and it can be contained which is why we must do everything we can to contain it. Thats why WHO recommends a comprehensive approach.
Post by: stooges44 on March 03, 2020, 03:59:28 PM
Post by: Ergel on March 03, 2020, 04:20:02 PM
Post by: Abebee on March 03, 2020, 04:22:41 PM
I assume that is referring to the Young Israel of New Rochelle?Thats correct.
Post by: Yard sale on March 03, 2020, 04:34:32 PM
Post by: Abebee on March 03, 2020, 04:36:22 PM
I guess theres not going to be much Purim in New RochelleHopefully its doesnt make its way to the rest of the frum communities before purim.
Post by: srap on March 03, 2020, 05:02:43 PM
http://cdn.jwplayer.com/players/4p3gVnKv-XLzx33eA.html (http://cdn.jwplayer.com/players/4p3gVnKv-XLzx33eA.html)Adorable!
Post by: Denverite on March 03, 2020, 05:43:19 PM
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/)
some interesting quotes:
"The death toll skews old even more strongly. Overall, China CDC found, 2.3% of confirmed cases died. But the fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, likely reflecting the presence of other diseases, a weaker immune system, or simply worse overall health. By contrast, the fatality rate was 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and 0.2% in people 10 to 39."
"It may be that immuno-suppression is actually helpful. Some of the most serious symptoms of Covid-19 result from an immune system on the rampage rather than a lethargic one, Chinese scientists found: An extreme immune response called cytokine storm, a flood of immune cells and the biochemicals they produce, tears through lung tissue."
"The high fatality rate of Covid-19 in already-sick people might result not from the virus but from an exacerbation of existing disease."
Post by: yuneeq on March 03, 2020, 05:54:35 PM
Hopefully its doesnt make its way to the rest of the frum communities before purim.
Regardless I was planning to avoid close contact on Purim.
Don't know if there's a day where we are more vulnerable.
Post by: NTorch on March 03, 2020, 05:55:34 PM
Quote
Iranians have posted several videos on social media featuring devout Shiites licking holy shrines in defiance of the coronavirus, MEMRI says.
On March 1, 2020, a pilgrim posted a video of himself licking the steel bars protecting the window of a Shiite shrine, according to MEMRI. He said that many people have spread lies that this window contracted corona, AIDS, hepatitis, and such nonsense.
He said that he is licking the bars so the disease enters his body and future pilgrims will be safe, MEMRI reports. I have now eaten the corona disease,.
Post by: avromie7 on March 03, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
I thought this article was really interesting, especially since Covid seems to be statistically so much more deadly for older people (about 15% for age 80+) but has statistically few cases and almost no fatalities for children or pregnant woman (unlike RSV that is so serious for infants) and I don't believe any fatalities for children under 10yrs old. I was reading somewhere that Covid's real danger for catastrophic fatalities is if it spreads through nursing homes and this info seems to bear this out.4/6 deaths in Washington State were from the same nursing home.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/)
some interesting quotes:
"The death toll skews old even more strongly. Overall, China CDC found, 2.3% of confirmed cases died. But the fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, likely reflecting the presence of other diseases, a weaker immune system, or simply worse overall health. By contrast, the fatality rate was 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and 0.2% in people 10 to 39."
"It may be that immuno-suppression is actually helpful. Some of the most serious symptoms of Covid-19 result from an immune system on the rampage rather than a lethargic one, Chinese scientists found: An extreme immune response called cytokine storm, a flood of immune cells and the biochemicals they produce, tears through lung tissue."
"The high fatality rate of Covid-19 in already-sick people might result not from the virus but from an exacerbation of existing disease."
ETA (as of 3/2/2020)
Post by: yuneeq on March 03, 2020, 06:01:17 PM
I thought this article was really interesting, especially since Covid seems to be statistically so much more deadly for older people (about 15% for age 80+) but has statistically few cases and almost no fatalities for children or pregnant woman (unlike RSV that is so serious for infants) and I don't believe any fatalities for children under 10yrs old. I was reading somewhere that Covid's real danger for catastrophic fatalities is if it spreads through nursing homes and this info seems to bear this out.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/)
some interesting quotes:
"The death toll skews old even more strongly. Overall, China CDC found, 2.3% of confirmed cases died. But the fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, likely reflecting the presence of other diseases, a weaker immune system, or simply worse overall health. By contrast, the fatality rate was 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and 0.2% in people 10 to 39."
"It may be that immuno-suppression is actually helpful. Some of the most serious symptoms of Covid-19 result from an immune system on the rampage rather than a lethargic one, Chinese scientists found: An extreme immune response called cytokine storm, a flood of immune cells and the biochemicals they produce, tears through lung tissue."
"The high fatality rate of Covid-19 in already-sick people might result not from the virus but from an exacerbation of existing disease."
Something I would add - a lot of fatalities are not necessarily from people that are sick. You might see some deaths described as - "patient had an underlying illness". Many times it means they were not sick and were living fine with a condition such as cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, or other health issues. The scary thing I think is that many older people have some underlying health condition.
Post by: avromie7 on March 03, 2020, 06:01:57 PM
Regardless I was planning to avoid close contact on Purim.The amount of things passing hands makes this incredibly difficult.
Don't know if there's a day where we are more vulnerable.
Post by: yuneeq on March 03, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
4/6 deaths in Washington State were from the same nursing home.
Up to 9 deaths in WA already most from the same place.
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 03, 2020, 10:30:10 PM
Post by: elazarmn on March 03, 2020, 10:48:18 PM
What's the endgame here? Schools close for 1 day, and then what?HAHA i was wondering the same thing today!
Turns out i saw an email from the schools that they want everyone get tested and have the school thoroughly cleaned.
Not sure exactly if that helps but that was the plan.
Post by: NTorch on March 04, 2020, 06:57:16 AM
Quote
Dear Members:
I am sure everyone is aware of the unfortunate case of COVID-19 identified in a man in Westchester that has led to the recommendation that a shul and a Yeshiva should be temporarily closed. We all hope and pray that he has a refuah shelaima and that no additional cases occur.
In the latter regard, and in the hope of diminishing the high levels of anxiety prevalent, I wanted to reassure the community that very little has practically changed regarding the recommendations we sent out erev Shabbos.
Indeed, a very positive study was reported just hours ago from the CDC. This MMWR early release report provides some comfort to the COVID-19 hysteria. This study looked at the first 10 cases in the US with travel-related COVID-19 and the risk to their household contacts. .
In these 10 cases, only two instances of person-to-person transmission of COVID-19 have been documented. The details are as follows.
Among the first 10 patients with travel-related confirmed COVID-19 reported in the United States, a total of 445 persons who had close contact with one of the 10 patients on or after the date of the patients symptom onset were identified.
Nineteen (4%) of the 445 contacts were members of a patients household, and five of these 19 contacts continued to have household exposure to the patient with confirmed COVID-19 during the patients isolation period; 104 (23%) were community members who spent at least 10 minutes within 6 feet of a patient with confirmed disease; 100 (22%) were community members who were exposed (defined as at least 10 minutes spent within 6 feet of the patient) in a health care setting; and 222 (50%) were health care personnel.
Reassuring Results: Two persons who were household members of patients with confirmed COVID-19 tested positive. However, despite intensive follow-up, no sustained person-to-person transmission of symptomatic COVID-19 was observed in the United States among the other close contacts of the first 10 persons with diagnosed travel-related COVID-19.
Boruch Hashem - community exposure in this study was not found. That does NOT mean it is not a risk - but probably it is not as bad as many of you think. And while it is one small study, everyone needs to take a deep breath.
Rabbi Aaron E. Glatt, MD
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 07:05:58 AM
From Rabbi Dr Aaron Glatt yesterday via the Young Israel of Woodmere:
TLDR; out of 445 known exposed contacts, only 2 were tested and the rest were observed for a few days for symptoms and released to infect everyone else. No need to worry about asymptotic transmission or long incubation periods, because we dont have test kits in the US. Also LifeCare never happened.
Post by: Boruch999 on March 04, 2020, 07:43:47 AM
Being exposed to someone with a disease does not mean that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
Merely being in the same room with someone is not enough to catch this.
Even shaking his hand would not be enough if he did not have secretions on his hand and the person who shook his hand did not go to his own mouth or nose with his hand afterwards.
Although it is possible that someone could have caught it, I think that its a leap to say that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
כבר הורו חז"ל: ידיים עסקניות הן
Post by: Galitzyaner on March 04, 2020, 07:54:27 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 07:56:24 AM
And with 9 deaths out of 21 cases in WA, that means we dont know about most cases besides the most severe ones, and only weeks after they became infected. The early progress of the infected/deaths ratio most resembles the numbers that first came out of Iran. Really sad.
https://kuow.org/stories/what-s-with-this-protective-medical-gear-readers-wrote-in-worried
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 08:27:06 AM
"We have unfortunately received news this morning that our student has tested positive for COVID-19. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family as well as to all those affected."
Hashem yerachem
Post by: NTorch on March 04, 2020, 09:11:02 AM
https://www.yu.edu/health-alert
"We have unfortunately received news this morning that our student has tested positive for COVID-19. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family as well as to all those affected."
Hashem yerachem
Amen - they are a very special family.
Post by: stooges44 on March 04, 2020, 09:16:58 AM
I just dont get it. Weve had 3 months to prepare and learn from whats going on in China, and still the US displaying the competence of a 3rd world country. No test kits available, very narrow testing criteria that is missing tons of cases, proper contamination procedures are not in place almost anywhere, and a severe shortage of PPE. The only containment measure in place is to tell people not to panic because the known immediate risk is still low, despite the fact that they're expecting it to be a full blown breakout very soon.
And with 9 deaths out of 21 cases in WA, that means we dont know about most cases besides the most severe ones, and only weeks after they became infected. The early progress of the infected/deaths ratio most resembles the numbers that first came out of Iran. Really sad.
https://kuow.org/stories/what-s-with-this-protective-medical-gear-readers-wrote-in-worried
Well, when the only thing on everyone's mind is getting trump out of office and the only thing Trump cares about is him staying in it.....
Post by: stooges44 on March 04, 2020, 10:12:24 AM
https://abc7ny.com/health/cuomo-positive-case-of-coronavirus-in-westchester-county/5981682/
Another confirmed case in NY.
Westchester Day School is closed, in addition to SAR Academy. Both schools are associated with the Westchester County man who has tested positive.
Nebach! The whole family now :'(
https://abc7ny.com/health/family-neighbor-of-westchester-covid-19-patient-test-positive/5984230/
Post by: Yard sale on March 04, 2020, 10:34:23 AM
Given the incubation period and the fact that its a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.
Being exposed to someone with a disease does not mean that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
Merely being in the same room with someone is not enough to catch this.
Even shaking his hand would not be enough if he did not have secretions on his hand and the person who shook his hand did not go to his own mouth or nose with his hand afterwards.
Although it is possible that someone could have caught it, I think that its a leap to say that "there is a likelihood that it has already spread from him to others in the frum community."
I sincerely hope you turn out to be right. Unfortunately I highly doubt it.
Nebach! The whole family now :'(
https://abc7ny.com/health/family-neighbor-of-westchester-covid-19-patient-test-positive/5984230/
Post by: Kobe Bryant on March 04, 2020, 10:46:53 AM
Post by: Abebee on March 04, 2020, 11:28:25 AM
Are people canceling Pesach plans, such as traveling to a program,or Israel, due to Covid 19??According to YWN - Yes.
Post by: Ergel on March 04, 2020, 11:43:05 AM
Yesterday there was a quote from the WHO that you cant infect during incubation period, which was different than they were saying before. Not sure what's correct
Post by: ExGingi on March 04, 2020, 11:50:44 AM
Yesterday there was a quote from the WHO that you cant infect during incubation period, which was different than they were saying before. Not sure what's correct
Possibly just trying to lower the global panic levels.
Post by: Kobe Bryant on March 04, 2020, 12:11:29 PM
Possibly just trying to lower the global panic levels.If true, that would be irresponsible and counterproductive, transparency is key to fighting this, and figuring out if its an actual threat.
Post by: ExGingi on March 04, 2020, 01:26:00 PM
Germany, France, Switzerland, and Austria are joining the list of restricted countries. Israelis coming from those countries will need to be quarantined for 14 days. Non-Israelis will be denied entry. However, connections through airports in those countries don't fall under the restrictions. The restrictions on non-Israelis go into effect Friday.
https://13news.co.il/item/news/domestic/health/coronavirus-israel-france-1020020/
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 01:31:38 PM
Yesterday there was a quote from the WHO that you cant infect during incubation period, which was different than they were saying before. Not sure what's correct
There are research studies that prove otherwise. A famous case is a woman that infected 5 family members but never had any symptoms.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-asymptomatic-transmission-chinese-woman-relatives-2020-2
Post by: chff on March 04, 2020, 01:36:49 PM
UPDATE: The patient, a 50-year-old attorney from Westchester, is now in stable condition and is improving. https://t.co/wL05eXDzPv
— Andrew Cuomo (@NYGovCuomo) March 4, 2020
Post by: mercaz1 on March 04, 2020, 01:37:18 PM
Israel going draconian on travel restrictions.
Germany, France, Switzerland, and Austria are joining the list of restricted countries. Israelis coming from those countries will need to be quarantined for 14 days. Non-Israelis will be denied entry. However, connections through airports in those countries don't fall under the restrictions. The restrictions on non-Israelis go into effect Friday.
https://13news.co.il/item/news/domestic/health/coronavirus-israel-france-1020020/
how much longer till the US is on the list
how long can israel survive economically with these measures in place
Post by: NTorch on March 04, 2020, 01:40:32 PM
UPDATE: The patient, a 50-year-old attorney from Westchester, is now in stable condition and is improving. https://t.co/wL05eXDzPv
— Andrew Cuomo (@NYGovCuomo) March 4, 2020
Thanks for retweeting this, it made my day. The choleh is a real mensch and he and his family are baalei chessed.
Post by: ExGingi on March 04, 2020, 01:45:30 PM
how long can israel survive economically with these measures in place
They'll just have to increase natural gas sales to their neighbors to make up for the drop in tourism.
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 03:19:01 PM
What are we doing to prepare? How will we avoid massive infection in shuls? Why does anyone just want to talk about how the risk is low, that it's all hype, and we are all fine?
Post by: mercaz1 on March 04, 2020, 04:05:06 PM
Just a thought - It's sad that us Orthodox Jews are probably more at risk than almost any demographic, 3x daily praying in shul, countless massive weddings, mikvahs, and we don't hear a peep from any community leaders and organizations, shuls, or schools, not one of them are taking it seriously.
What are we doing to prepare? How will we avoid massive infection in shuls? Why does anyone just want to talk about how the risk is low, that it's all hype, and we are all fine?
not sure where you live but i have had numerous email from Achiezer regarding outbreak.
What do you want the community leaders to say exactly?
Post by: NTorch on March 04, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
Just a thought - It's sad that us Orthodox Jews are probably more at risk than almost any demographic, 3x daily praying in shul, countless massive weddings, mikvahs, and we don't hear a peep from any community leaders and organizations, shuls, or schools, not one of them are taking it seriously.
What are we doing to prepare? How will we avoid massive infection in shuls? Why does anyone just want to talk about how the risk is low, that it's all hype, and we are all fine?
The following message was sent by Rabbi Aaron Glatt, MD, a specialist in infectious diseases, the assistant rabbi and the Young Israel if Woodmere, and father of former K.I.N.S. members, Ari and Michelle Glatt.
May you have a Shabbat Shalom, and may all who are affected by this illness have a refuah shlaima!
February 28, 2020
ג׳ אדר תש״פ
While the new novel coronavirus, COVID-19, has caused illness that has been widely covered in the news media, and the number of cases worldwide has grown substantially with 80,000+ confirmed cases worldwide in about 40 countries, there are still no confirmed cases of COVID-19 in New York State or the New York metropolitan region. However, with the first case of unclear transmission in the US just described in California, we wanted to update our shul goers.
There are currently no specific recommendations for shuls, although we will continue to update the shul should new information become available.
If you have not traveled to an area where COVID-19 is prevalent or been in close contact with a traveler, and you develop respiratory symptoms, it remains likely that you have a seasonal illness like the flu rather than COVID-19.
At the present time, we urge common-sense and regular hand washing (as appropriate), with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, or with an alcohol-based hand sanitizer if soap and water are not available.
Good personal hygiene practices, including covering coughs and sneezes are also important. To do this optimally, cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, and then throw the tissue in the trash and wash your hands. If you dont have a tissue available, cough or sneeze into your elbow.
Other appropriate actions include avoiding touching your eyes, nose and mouth and disinfect objects and surfaces that are frequently handled.
At this time, we do not have a strict recommendation against hand shaking or kissing the sefer Torah or mezzuzos for people who are not at all sick. Use common sense.
The CDC does NOT recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19. Facemasks should only be used by lay people who have symptoms of respiratory diseases, and who must be in public - to help prevent the spread of the disease to others.
Most importantly, several great poskim have personally told me and clearly stated that one must stay home and not go to shul if you are sick with a potentially contagious respiratory illness.
This is a good time to remind everyone that over 30,000,000 people in the US this season have gotten flu, with between 16,000-30,000 deaths, including over 100 children. Flu vaccination is still indicated! By not getting or transmitting flu, you will not only save lives, but you will greatly help doctors who will have less patients to evaluate with unknown respiratory illnesses.
We should make sure there are alcohol-based hand sanitizers in the lobby areas. Custodial staff should be diligently cleaning our shuls and checking dispensers for hand soap and hand sanitizer to ensure that they are filled at all times.
If you recently traveled to a country with ongoing person-to-person transmission of COVID-19: As long as you are asymptomatic, you are probably not a risk to others. However, it is prudent to check your temperature twice a day and monitor for any respiratory symptoms for at least 14 days from the time you left that country. If you have any symptoms or fever, see your doctor as soon as possible, but call the office or center first so they can appropriately isolate you upon entry to the office before they evaluate you.
May our teffilos be accepted by Hashem and may this epidemic soon end.
Rabbi Aaron E. Glatt, MD
From Rabbi Dr Aaron Glatt yesterday via the Young Israel of Woodmere:
Dear Members:
I am sure everyone is aware of the unfortunate case of COVID-19 identified in a man in Westchester that has led to the recommendation that a shul and a Yeshiva should be temporarily closed. We all hope and pray that he has a refuah shelaima and that no additional cases occur.
In the latter regard, and in the hope of diminishing the high levels of anxiety prevalent, I wanted to reassure the community that very little has practically changed regarding the recommendations we sent out erev Shabbos.
Indeed, a very positive study was reported just hours ago from the CDC. This MMWR early release report provides some comfort to the COVID-19 hysteria. This study looked at the first 10 cases in the US with travel-related COVID-19 and the risk to their household contacts. .
In these 10 cases, only two instances of person-to-person transmission of COVID-19 have been documented. The details are as follows.
Among the first 10 patients with travel-related confirmed COVID-19 reported in the United States, a total of 445 persons who had close contact with one of the 10 patients on or after the date of the patients symptom onset were identified.
Nineteen (4%) of the 445 contacts were members of a patients household, and five of these 19 contacts continued to have household exposure to the patient with confirmed COVID-19 during the patients isolation period; 104 (23%) were community members who spent at least 10 minutes within 6 feet of a patient with confirmed disease; 100 (22%) were community members who were exposed (defined as at least 10 minutes spent within 6 feet of the patient) in a health care setting; and 222 (50%) were health care personnel.
Reassuring Results: Two persons who were household members of patients with confirmed COVID-19 tested positive. However, despite intensive follow-up, no sustained person-to-person transmission of symptomatic COVID-19 was observed in the United States among the other close contacts of the first 10 persons with diagnosed travel-related COVID-19.
Boruch Hashem - community exposure in this study was not found. That does NOT mean it is not a risk - but probably it is not as bad as many of you think. And while it is one small study, everyone needs to take a deep breath.
Rabbi Aaron E. Glatt, MD
And that's just from one of my kid's schools.
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 04:47:51 PM
not sure where you live but i have had numerous email from Achiezer regarding outbreak.
What do you want the community leaders to say exactly?
What measures are we taking to stop the spread? Why are shuls not texting me about their new safety measures, like sanitizing and disinfecting? Are schools/shuls serving food with proper hygiene or are they risking infecting an entire school?
And that's just from one of my kid's schools.
Don't see anything policies or recommendations for specific schools, shuls or other public places. Or how they plan to deal with any outbreaks.
From your first message -
"There are currently no specific recommendations for shuls, although we will continue to update the shul should new information become available."
And the second piece reads like a piece of propaganda or just plain ignorance.
Post by: how on March 04, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
Quote
Notification issued 03-04-2020 at 4:42 PM. Mayor Bill de Blasio today updated New Yorkers on the City's preparedness efforts regarding COVID-19. The NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, in partnership with New York City Emergency Management, has distributed guidance to all agencies and partners. The Mayor has convened four agency wide tabletops to discuss these preparations. This week, all City agencies that oversee congregate and community spaces are implementing enhanced cleaning guidance modeled after the Department of Education's enhanced protocols.
For more information on the City's response, visit: https://on.nyc.gov/38tBEpP
For Coronavirus preparedness tips and safety info, visit: www.NYC.gov/coronavirus.
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 05:09:40 PM
Dear Parents,
While we are all following the news of the Coronavirus as it impacts the greater New York community, please be assured that we are in touch with the local and State Department of Health, as well as with medical professionals.
At this time, we have been advised to continue encouraging students to cover coughs or sneeze with a tissue (or elbow), throw the tissue in the trash and wash and sanitize their hands. Since Sunday, we began additional disinfecting for bathrooms, door knobs, etc. In addition to our wall mountain hand sanitizers throughout the campus, a gracious parent has ordered portable dispensers for every room in the yeshiva.
If your son has a cold/fever/etc, he should not come to school until he has been cleared by a doctor. (This is the same protocol that we follow for flu.)
In case we are ever faced with a situation where we are instructed to close the yeshiva, we will be ready with a plan to continue our learning via computer.
Please note, that children may be frightened by the many rumors flying around, and it is important to understand and address any fears they may have. (We have attached a kid - friendly info-graphic that you may choose to share with them if you feel that it is appropriate. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/28/809580453/just-for-kids-a-comic-exploring-the-new-coronavirus )
As always, we understand that everything is in HASHEM's hands, and we daven that he continue to watch over his children. Please reach out to us if you have any additional questions or concerns.
Sincerely,
THE HANHALA
Post by: googwallet on March 04, 2020, 05:30:08 PM
Post by: googwallet on March 04, 2020, 05:40:19 PM
Post by: Yard sale on March 04, 2020, 06:09:37 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1837734/breaking-another-jewish-family-in-new-rochelle-infected-with-coronavirus-father-mother-two-sons-daughter.html
There are going to be hundreds in Westchester, Cuomo said of his expectation going forward. The number of people who will be infected will continue to increase. It is going to be dozens and dozens and dozens
Post by: Moes Tavern on March 04, 2020, 07:19:51 PM
No more water and limiting long shelf life items to 5 per person.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 04, 2020, 07:21:05 PM
Wow
Post by: moish on March 04, 2020, 07:36:57 PM
how long can israel survive economically with these measures in placeWhich sectors other than tourism (which accounts for a very small percentage of its GDP) would be drastically affected?
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 08:40:54 PM
BREAKING: New Jersey reports first case of coronavirus https://t.co/eUoE2b20hL
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) March 5, 2020
Post by: ExGingi on March 04, 2020, 08:47:46 PM
Post by: Yard sale on March 04, 2020, 08:55:25 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 04, 2020, 09:05:27 PM
What's the point of breaking news on new cases. Very soon it will be as widespread as the flu.
Agree with you, and for anyone paying attention this was all inevitable. But I think theres value in posting these milestones, it gets more and more people to wake up. Visiting NYU now and havent seen a mask all day. Not visitors or staff.
Post by: whYME on March 04, 2020, 09:07:36 PM
Visiting NYU now and havent seen a mask all day. Not visitors or staff.That's because you already went and bought them all, they couldn't find any :P
Post by: davidmal on March 04, 2020, 09:21:01 PM
Post by: voldemort on March 04, 2020, 09:47:55 PM
Post by: Shmobaum on March 04, 2020, 11:56:39 PM
Agree with you, and for anyone paying attention this was all inevitable. But I think theres value in posting these milestones, it gets more and more people to wake up. Visiting NYU now and havent seen a mask all day. Not visitors or staff.Masks are only for those already infected with the virus to prevent it from spreading to others. Read the facts.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mask-confusion/id1501029683?i=1000467306821
Post by: yuneeq on March 05, 2020, 12:33:03 AM
Masks are only for those already infected with the virus to prevent it from spreading to others. Read the facts.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mask-confusion/id1501029683?i=1000467306821
Except the fact that the incubation period is very long and will spread disease even without being sick. No one knows they have the virus until they develop symptoms and get tested, and by then it's way too late. Not to mention that the sick people don't have any masks because the CDC told them not to buy any.
Post by: Ergel on March 05, 2020, 07:29:13 AM
Who goes to osher ad twice on an 8 day trip to Israel
Anyways, this is so vague, will anyone actually self quarantine because of this?
Post by: NTorch on March 05, 2020, 09:23:44 AM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israelis-who-came-in-contact-with-us-tourist-in-jerusalem-ordered-to-quarantine/
Who goes to osher ad twice on an 8 day trip to Israel
Anyways, this is so vague, will anyone actually self quarantine because of this?
Possibly someone who has a daughter in seminary and is stocking them up with food?
Post by: Denverite on March 05, 2020, 09:36:45 AM
@Dan IMHO this needs to go on DDMS ASAP...now it doesnt matter if people are only transiting because the Israeli government decided to ban people from these places, Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, etc. are just cancelling all flights to Israel.
I cant imagine the the thousands of Americans and Europeans this will affect.
Post by: Buruch on March 05, 2020, 09:42:14 AM
What if booked using another Star Alliance partner's miles?
Post by: Denverite on March 05, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
Do they have to reroute passengers?
What if booked using another Star Alliance partner's miles?
No idea, Id call the airline you are flying first and then the one whose points you used. My husband is literally on a LH flight from FRA-TLV this minute and BH I have his return booked on British and they are still flying (for now) but if I had booked him a RT on Lufthansa his return would already be cancelled. :-[
My HS son is also supposed to fly home for Pesach on British but on the return on AA and El Al (via Paris) so Im just waiting and watching everything. As of now the direct US flights are fine and Turkish, TAP and Iberia seem ok as transit points and possible options. Also even Lufthansa is for now scheduled to resume service on 3/28. If he cant come home, hell be 3weeks with the dorm closed and unable to go home, although its looking like schools may close very soon in Israel anyway so maybe better to just bring him home early...for now just waiting and watching.
Post by: NTorch on March 05, 2020, 10:22:08 AM
Quote
My Dear Friends,
Some good news this morning. Two tests of students who were considered at risk due to proximity, including roommate, came back negative. Chasdei Hashem.
I will continue to send updates later today.
Dr. Ari Berman
President, Yeshiva University
Post by: coffeebean on March 05, 2020, 12:15:33 PM
Post by: YoniPDX on March 05, 2020, 09:52:38 PM
So. Korea as of 3.4.2020 had tested 130K people had 5,300 cases and 32 deaths - With a mortality rate of .06%
The Diamond Princess has a mortality rate of .08%
The other end of the spectrum is China, Iran and Italy at 3~3. 8% mortality rate. The majority of deaths in Italy have been those 60+ years old, the same with the US.
Apparently there are two strains of the Covid19 - based on the progression in Italy, South Korea and Iran - we will either see a huge uptick in cases and perhaps deaths in the US and other parts of the world.
Post by: yesitsme on March 05, 2020, 10:09:29 PM
Quote
On Thursday, Chinese media The Paper reported that a man in Wuhan who had recovered from Covid-19 and tested negative for the virus died less than a week later from the infection. The report was later removed from the internet.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-05/what-doctors-treating-covid-19-in-wuhan-say-about-the-virus
Post by: Denverite on March 05, 2020, 10:39:57 PM
A few tidbits -Italy has the world 2nd oldest population after Japan.
So. Korea as of 3.4.2020 had tested 130K people had 5,300 cases and 32 deaths - With a mortality rate of .06%
The Diamond Princess has a mortality rate of .08%
The other end of the spectrum is China, Iran and Italy at 3~3. 8% mortality rate. The majority of deaths in Italy have been those 60+ years old, the same with the US.
Apparently there are two strains of the Covid19 - based on the progression in Italy, South Korea and Iran - we will either see a huge uptick in cases and perhaps deaths in the US and other parts of the world.
Very interesting, thank you for posting. I think the age and demographic aspect of this virus are so huge (and unusual compared to respiratory viruses) and they dont seem to be covered by the media in the context of all these deaths.
Post by: Denverite on March 05, 2020, 10:43:27 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-05/what-doctors-treating-covid-19-in-wuhan-say-about-the-virus
Thank you, very informative.
Post by: ckmk47 on March 05, 2020, 11:21:13 PM
Korea as of 3.4.2020 had tested 130K people had 5,300 cases and 32 deaths - With a mortality rate of .06%32/5300 = .006 = .6% not .06%
In light of that, do you need to update this number?
"The Diamond Princess has a mortality rate of .08%"
Post by: grodnoking on March 05, 2020, 11:31:59 PM
32/5300 = .006 = .6% not .06%That should be .8
In light of that, do you need to update this number?
"The Diamond Princess has a mortality rate of .08%"
Post by: YoniPDX on March 05, 2020, 11:39:57 PM
32/5300 = .006 = .6% not .06%
In light of that, do you need to update this number?
"The Diamond Princess has a mortality rate of .08%"
I've been accused of being optimistic, but your correct my decimal.places are off.
Post by: yesitsme on March 06, 2020, 12:04:38 AM
Quote
As of Feb. 26, CDC had performed a total of 445 tests. For comparison, the UK, with a population five times smaller than the US, had conducted over 7,000 tests.
Post by: yesitsme on March 06, 2020, 12:43:44 AM
when the 1st plane crashed FDNY said everyone should stay calm they have it under control and advised against leaving till everything came tumbling down (I wasn't there, מפי השמועה)
trump keeps on reassuring the citizens keep calm its not that bad, CDC don't buy masks, just watch it happening in real time
Post by: yuneeq on March 06, 2020, 01:00:46 AM
A few tidbits -Italy has the world 2nd oldest population after Japan.
So. Korea as of 3.4.2020 had tested 130K people had 5,300 cases and 32 deaths - With a mortality rate of .06%
The Diamond Princess has a mortality rate of .08%
The other end of the spectrum is China, Iran and Italy at 3~3. 8% mortality rate. The majority of deaths in Italy have been those 60+ years old, the same with the US.
Apparently there are two strains of the Covid19 - based on the progression in Italy, South Korea and Iran - we will either see a huge uptick in cases and perhaps deaths in the US and other parts of the world.
First off, you are calculating all your percentages wrong. Eg. Diamond Princess - you are trying to say it's 0.8%, but you wrote .08%, a 10x difference. Same for South Korea. Regardless, the number you are looking for based on your (flawed) methodology is 7 out of 775 - 0.9% . Next - you are using an overly simplistic method of calculating CFR, as not all cases have been completed yet. There are still 34 severe cases, and only 40 confirmed recoveries. Some people calculate death to completed case ratio, which is also flawed at this point in the other direction, as most cases are not yet finalized but will likely recover. One last point about the DP. It can teach us a lot about the fatality and severe case rate (once it's over) in a mostly controlled setting. The outbreak on the DP does not account for hospitals that are potentially overwhelmed like in Hubei, where the CFR is currently very high at 4.3%.
South Korea and Italy and any country ramping up testing needs to be analyzed properly. Due to extensive testing, they are finding cases very early. Italy's first case was confirmed only 2 weeks ago. You can't use the thousands of newly discovered cases as evidence of a low CFR when it can take 6-8 weeks to die.
OTOH, the numbers from the US is pretty concerning. Not because of the high CFR, it will go down. The problem is they're only finding new cases if they're severe or fatal. Mild or asymptomatic cases are only discovered if they are linked to an existing confirmed case. This points at an alarming amount of mild cases that are spreading the virus all over the US and no one has a clue.
Post by: Proisrael on March 06, 2020, 04:03:48 AM
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
80+ years old
21.9%
14.8%
70-79 years old
8.0%
60-69 years old
3.6%
50-59 years old
1.3%
40-49 years old
0.4%
30-39 years old
0.2%
20-29 years old
0.2%
10-19 years old
0.2%
0-9 years old
no fatalities
Why the lack of deaths under 10? what is different about this disease that it is killing older people vs babies/children??
Post by: Buruch on March 06, 2020, 05:24:32 AM
Post by: YoniPDX on March 06, 2020, 07:50:58 AM
GE
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
80+ years old
21.9%
14.8%
70-79 years old
8.0%
60-69 years old
3.6%
50-59 years old
1.3%
40-49 years old
0.4%
30-39 years old
0.2%
20-29 years old
0.2%
10-19 years old
0.2%
0-9 years old
no fatalities
Why the lack of deaths under 10? what is different about this disease that it is killing older people vs babies/children??
From what I've read is that the immature immune system of youth - doesn't respond and activate the Mast cells and initiate a robust histamine response (i.e. congestion from mucus [an example of an extreme histamine response i.e. allergy to peanuts better known as anaphylaxic shock]) which causes/leads to the respiratory issues/breathing issues.
Smokers and persons with Hypertension/Cardiac issues tend to have lower O saturation even when not sick - they will have higher mortality when infected with a respiratory virus. So they succumb to respiratory failure - (i.e. your O blood saturation is too low and CO concentration is too high in your blood because your lungs are not able to exchange the gases in your blood).
Post by: jj1000 on March 06, 2020, 07:57:35 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 06, 2020, 08:04:03 AM
All these are based on percentages of confirmed cases? It doesn't seem like they're accounting for cases that never come in and get tested, so it's probably actually lower. That's basically impossible to eatate at this point. The flu has been around long enough that they can make educated guesses.
The percentages you are seeing are coming from dashboards that are only counting confirmed cases. The dashboards are not trying to predict the final CFR, they are simply tallying the currently known CFR. This is not an estimate or a prediction for how things will turn out. Its the epidemiologists that estimate what the real CFR might end up being, and there are plenty of data points that can help them get a decent estimate.
A big debate is how many asymptomatic/mild cases are not being counted as confirmed cases. One way to figure this out - find out the how the virus affects large groups of people that are randomly tested, where testing criteria isnt based on a person developing symptoms. So imagine a case where 10k people were exposed to a confirmed case, and that same day we take all 10k people and start testing and monitoring. If we find 5000 confirmed cases, we check after 6-8 weeks, how many of them never develop any symptoms? How many have mild symptoms, and how many are hospitalized or die? If the rate is 80% mild/no symptoms, 20% severe/2% die, then we can apply that rate to completed cases to see how many cases we missed. If the completed numbers are showing 40% severe cases, we know were likely missing half the milder cases, and can adjust the CFR by half to 1.7%. But if the ratio is 25% severe cases, then we are not missing much, and the estimated CFR will only be lowered to 2.7%. (Obviously this is a simplified explanation as experts will be adjusting for age, health conditions, and other factors).
Where might we find significant testing not based on symptoms? South Korea is testing the entire church cult consisting of 210k members. We might need to be patient until all this data is ready, but regardless its too early to say what the final CFR will be.
One last thing - the experts provided estimates of about 8% CFR for SARS during that outbreak but, that number was actually revised upwards to 10% after everything was over. Which means the experts overestimated the amount of unconfirmed cases. When we see expert estimates of 1-3% CFR, theyre already basing that on their estimate of unconfirmed cases. No need to adjust and reduce their numbers further.
Post by: aygart on March 06, 2020, 09:16:42 AM
Rabbi for synagogue at center of New York coronavirus outbreak tests positive https://nypost.com/2020/03/06/rabbi-at-new-rochelle-coronavirus-synagogue-has-tested-positive/Wow. He is my stepbrother's father in law.
Post by: ExGingi on March 06, 2020, 03:52:30 PM
Post by: grodnoking on March 06, 2020, 04:20:10 PM
Post by: whYME on March 06, 2020, 04:26:37 PM
Start from 5:15 :P
Post by: YoniPDX on March 06, 2020, 06:13:26 PM
The fatality rate from the illness in Italy, which has one of the oldest populations in the world, is running at 4.25 per cent...."
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/coronavirus-covid19-italy-deaths-mar-6-12511380
Post by: moish on March 07, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
So this one guy has the virus, and over 3 weeks of him not knowing he had it it spread to tens of people if not more. Those people walked around for awhile too with it not knowing. I can't imagine how many people will be known to have it once we start (if they ever) testing anyone who had to do with the second level of this virus. And by the time we find them they will have spread it further. This is uncontainable and whoever gave that ratio of 1 person infecting 1.3 to 2 people is way off.That's not necessarily the case. If the guy wasn't coughing it up or sneezing it out and/or the other people were practicing proper hygiene, there's no reason why that should be true.
Post by: stooges44 on March 07, 2020, 07:41:15 PM
Now the conspiracy is did they release the virus by accident...
So now I'm thinking you may be onto something here. Trump put tarrifs on China. China gets mad. China releases this virus which they know will eventually go worldwide. The markets will crash. Trump will be pushed out of office. China wins.
Post by: AJK on March 07, 2020, 08:39:01 PM
Start from 5:15 :P
Uh, no. This guy predicts millions will die. No one thinks the world is coming to an end.
Post by: Joel on March 07, 2020, 08:43:18 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 07, 2020, 10:31:43 PM
I think most people aren’t aware of the risk of systemic healthcare failure due to #COVID19 because they simply haven’t run the numbers yet. Let’s talk math. 1/n
— Liz Specht (@LizSpecht) March 7, 2020
Post by: yuneeq on March 07, 2020, 11:05:19 PM
Read the thread. Scary math.I think most people aren’t aware of the risk of systemic healthcare failure due to #COVID19 because they simply haven’t run the numbers yet. Let’s talk math. 1/n
— Liz Specht (@LizSpecht) March 7, 2020
Happened in China already, now happening in Italy.
https://old.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/ff25hg/desperate_times_call_for_desperate_measures/
Post by: ckmk47 on March 07, 2020, 11:14:47 PM
Starting Wednesday, no one leaves their house anywhere, except for a skeleton crew of essential personnel.
This would alleviate the protracted situation we have now. Besides killing people, it's killing the economy.
Post by: how on March 07, 2020, 11:39:33 PM
Post by: CS1 on March 08, 2020, 09:15:07 AM
Post by: ben6952 on March 08, 2020, 11:04:57 AM
Any Monsey updates?I heard there were 3 weddings in Monsey last week that a waiter that serves there tested positive.
Post by: NTorch on March 08, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
I think the whole world should go on a preventive quarantine for 2 weeks.
Starting Wednesday, no one leaves their house anywhere, except for a skeleton crew of essential personnel.
This would alleviate the protracted situation we have now. Besides killing people, it's killing the economy.
So everyone else dies? People who need daily chemo or dialysis don't go for treatment? And if you mean the essential personnel would include the hospital staff who would treat the existing sick people what about the essential services they would need to do their jobs. Someone needs to delver gas, heating oil, work in water treatment plants, staff the prisons...
Its a nice thought but its not realistic.
Post by: ben6952 on March 08, 2020, 11:15:02 AM
So everyone else dies? People who need daily chemo or dialysis don't go for treatment? And if you mean the essential personnel would include the hospital staff who would treat the existing sick people what about the essential services they would need to do their jobs. Someone needs to delver gas, heating oil, work in water treatment plants, staff the prisons...He probably just means whatever theyre doing in Italy now. (1/4 of the country is in lockdown)
Its a nice thought but its not realistic.
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 11:30:41 AM
So everyone else dies? People who need daily chemo or dialysis don't go for treatment? And if you mean the essential personnel would include the hospital staff who would treat the existing sick people what about the essential services they would need to do their jobs. Someone needs to delver gas, heating oil, work in water treatment plants, staff the prisons...
Its a nice thought but its not realistic.
All the people you mentioned are whats called essential personnel. And its very realistic as its been done before in China.
Post by: aygart on March 08, 2020, 12:03:36 PM
People who need daily chemo or dialysisKeep in mind that these are from the people at the highest risk.
Post by: NTorch on March 08, 2020, 12:11:51 PM
Keep in mind that these are from the people at the highest risk.
Agreed as to chemo (people on dialysis are not necessarily immunosupressed) - but if they dont go out for treatment they will die of something else besides Covid-19.
Post by: aygart on March 08, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
(people on dialysis are not necessarily immunosupressed)I read that kidneys are one of the risk points.
Post by: aygart on March 08, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
Agreed as to chemo (people on dialysis are not necessarily immunosupressed) - but if they dont go out for treatment they will die of something else besides Covid-19.That depends how needed those two weeks are and if it needs to be consecutive. It is a risk reward question.
Post by: srap on March 08, 2020, 12:37:42 PM
Uh, no. This guy predicts millions will die. No one thinks the world is coming to an end.+1(!)
He does add....but things can be done to change that (although most people are not doing those things).
Post by: Yard sale on March 08, 2020, 01:09:13 PM
I heard there were 3 weddings in Monsey last week that a waiter that serves there tested positive.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1838568/alert-from-rockland-health-dept-atrium-wedding-hall-among-locations-exposed-to-coronavirus.html
Post by: Chapshnell on March 08, 2020, 01:57:22 PM
Post by: zale on March 08, 2020, 02:44:54 PM
Netflix put it in their featured movies. Its going to freak people out.
Post by: ExGingi on March 08, 2020, 03:04:44 PM
Post by: Dawie on March 08, 2020, 03:17:03 PM
Anyone here watch Outbreak?worse than Contagion ?
Netflix put it in their featured movies. Its going to freak people out.
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 03:29:07 PM
There are 7 private labs ready to start COVID-19 testing in New York that could process up to 2,000 more tests per day -- if they had CDC approval, Gov. Cuomo says https://t.co/WVaDdVMJOq
— NBC New York (@NBCNewYork) March 8, 2020
Post by: danR on March 08, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
Its crazy, I would think they should test as many people as they can to rule it out. Hospitals seem very ill prepare do prevent an outbreak
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 04:03:30 PM
I am at A NYC hospital with an elderly family member who has fever and bad cough but they are saying they would not do a corona test unless he was actually with someone who has a confirmed case because they do not have enough test.
Its crazy, I would think they should test as many people as they can to rule it out. Hospitals seem very ill prepare do prevent an outbreak
Let me guess, the medical staff were not wearing any PPE.
Post by: how on March 08, 2020, 04:26:55 PM
Read the thread. Scary math.Hotels can be converted into temporary covid19 hospitals...I think most people aren’t aware of the risk of systemic healthcare failure due to #COVID19 because they simply haven’t run the numbers yet. Let’s talk math. 1/n
— Liz Specht (@LizSpecht) March 7, 2020
TrumpResortHospital
Post by: danR on March 08, 2020, 04:28:54 PM
Let me guess, the medical staff were not wearing any PPE.
They are fully geared up, found a stash of masks and gloves. Going to grab a bunch and sell on amazon for $100/per mask 😷😀
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 05:30:18 PM
Post by: Yard sale on March 08, 2020, 06:59:41 PM
Post by: yelped on March 08, 2020, 07:13:19 PM
They are fully geared up, found a stash of masks and gloves. Going to grab a bunch and sell on amazon for $100/per mask 😷😀So you're going to steal from a hospital to sell them on Amazon? :o
Post by: YossieW on March 08, 2020, 07:18:22 PM
Post by: ckmk47 on March 08, 2020, 08:57:23 PM
I am at A NYC hospital with an elderly family member who has fever and bad cough but they are saying they would not do a corona test unless he was actually with someone who has a confirmed case because they do not have enough test.Is there any difference in treatment if it's Covid19 or not? So for your relative it makes no difference if he's tested.
Its crazy, I would think they should test as many people as they can to rule it out. Hospitals seem very ill prepare do prevent an outbreak
It matters to your extended family and his caretakers. And it may be a regular or flu.
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 09:06:03 PM
Is there any difference in treatment if it's Covid19 or not? So for your relative it makes no difference if he's tested.
It matters to your extended family and his caretakers. And it may be a regular or flu.
It seems so
From the WA nursing home:
— balajis.com (@balajis) March 8, 2020
"Our experience with this so far has shown that the virus is volatile and unpredictable…We’ve had patients who, within an hour’s time, show no symptoms to going to acute symptoms and being transferred to the hospital."https://t.co/SKtsGFlFta pic.twitter.com/2wlmWUGr4U
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 08, 2020, 09:14:56 PM
Is there any difference in treatment if it's Covid19 or not? So for your relative it makes no difference if he's tested.Presumably the patient isn't in quarantine in the interim...
It matters to your extended family and his caretakers. And it may be a regular or flu.
Post by: Luvisrael on March 08, 2020, 10:00:57 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 10:04:53 PM
My job entails daily visits to nursing homes and peoples homes across the state. Should I be concerned?
.
Post by: yelped on March 08, 2020, 10:21:40 PM
Post by: whYME on March 08, 2020, 10:29:57 PM
Why are so many employees showing symptoms? It seems that hand washing etc doesn't really help unless you're all masked up?well one question is what does "showing symptoms" mean here?
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
well one question is what does "showing symptoms" mean here?
It means WA doesn't have enough test kits so they are prioritizing who gets tested, and just monitoring symptoms. Look at the line above - they only received 45 test kits.
But regardless, we already learned from China that even with full PPE that thousands of HCP were infected. The sorry excuse for what they call PPE in the US will lead to so many problems.
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 11:13:41 PM
https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en
Post by: chff on March 09, 2020, 05:46:37 AM
Post by: shwarmabob on March 09, 2020, 12:09:23 PM
https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_marzo_09/coronavirus-scegliamo-chi-curare-chi-no-come-ogni-guerra-196f7d34-617d-11ea-8f33-90c941af0f23.shtml
Post by: srap on March 09, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
Doctor's interview from Bergamo (suburb of Milan)Bottom line: It's like a war zone in the hospital. A central room set up in the middle of emergency ward only for COVID-19. They pick and choose who to help...the most likely cases to survive, ie. the younger ones, not the older ones, the ones with underlying issues nor certainly the ones with three or more failing organs. No time for "regular" cases like heart attacks. It could take an hour to get to them instead of just minutes.
https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_marzo_09/coronavirus-scegliamo-chi-curare-chi-no-come-ogni-guerra-196f7d34-617d-11ea-8f33-90c941af0f23.shtml (https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_marzo_09/coronavirus-scegliamo-chi-curare-chi-no-come-ogni-guerra-196f7d34-617d-11ea-8f33-90c941af0f23.shtml)
The doctor's bottom line message: STAY HOME, STAY HOME.
Post by: yuneeq on March 09, 2020, 02:39:23 PM
3/ The team went back & tested 320,000 samples originally taken for flu and other screening; only 0.5% returned positive.
— Abraar Karan (@AbraarKaran) March 8, 2020
Is this a perfect way to know if we had missed mild/asymptomatic cases? No.
But is it another point of data. Yes.
Post by: avromie7 on March 09, 2020, 02:43:04 PM
Read the thread. Bottom line, the unconfirmed cases won't change the overall stats much, don't expect the CFR to drop. And mild case = anywhere between fever to full blown pneumonia.This completely ignores the potentially multiple times as many people with little to no symptoms who don't bother getting tested at all.3/ The team went back & tested 320,000 samples originally taken for flu and other screening; only 0.5% returned positive.
— Abraar Karan (@AbraarKaran) March 8, 2020
Is this a perfect way to know if we had missed mild/asymptomatic cases? No.
But is it another point of data. Yes.
Post by: yuneeq on March 09, 2020, 03:16:21 PM
This completely ignores the potentially multiple times as many people with little to no symptoms who don't bother getting tested at all.
They took 320k random swabs from people who weren't screened but would most likely be good candidates to have COVID and retroactively tested them. They only found .5%. That is a pretty huge and significant sample size.
Post by: NTorch on March 09, 2020, 03:20:34 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/03/09/coronavirus-in-ny-cuomo-unveils-states-hand-sanitizer-made-by-prisoners/
Post by: avromie7 on March 09, 2020, 03:34:18 PM
They took 320k random swabs from people who weren't screened but would most likely be good candidates to have COVID and retroactively tested them. They only found .5%. That is a pretty huge and significant sample size.
Quote
In Guangdong, they went back and retested 320,000 samples originally taken for influenza surveillance and other screening. Less than 0.5 percent came up positive, which is about the same number as the 1,500 known Covid cases in the province.According to this https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6) there are only 1,352 cases in Guangdong province. None of these numbers are adding up.
Post by: ckmk47 on March 09, 2020, 04:22:16 PM
Why are so many employees showing symptoms? It seems that hand washing etc doesn't really help unless you're all masked up?They may not have been meticulous in handwashing. And Covid19 seems to spread more easily than other hospital germs.
Post by: Chapshnell on March 09, 2020, 04:23:06 PM
According to this https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6) there are only 1,352 cases in Guangdong province. None of these numbers are adding up.
dont trust the Chinese numbers. it means nothing, just a random number they gave out. No dif between them & north koreas propoganda, just in a dif. way
Post by: Yammer on March 09, 2020, 04:59:17 PM
dont trust the Chinese numbers. it means nothing, just a random number they gave out. No dif between them & north koreas propoganda, just in a dif. wayI can't understand why all the news orgs are taking the Chinese numbers as it's 100% real
Post by: avromie7 on March 09, 2020, 05:04:50 PM
dont trust the Chinese numbers. it means nothing, just a random number they gave out. No dif between them & north koreas propoganda, just in a dif. waySo then this whole story about retesting 320k is a farce.
Post by: yuneeq on March 09, 2020, 05:05:01 PM
BREAKING: Italian Prime Minister Conte puts all of Italy on lockdown due to coronavirus, urges people to stay at home
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) March 9, 2020
Post by: yesitsme on March 09, 2020, 07:29:06 PM
should be renamed
Down The Drain
Post by: Galitzyaner on March 10, 2020, 11:13:05 PM
Quote
And more Democrats than Republicans say they are taking steps to be prepared, including washing their hands more often or limiting their travel plans.
Post by: Proisrael on March 11, 2020, 05:09:25 AM
Democrats are about twice as likely as Republicans to say the coronavirus poses an imminent threat to the United States, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted this week. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-polarization/americans-divided-on-party-lines-over-risk-from-coronavirus-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN20T2O3)
Democrats are all about hysterics. Save the whales. Save the penguins. Save the Arctic. Global Warming. Racist!!
Republicans have better things to do with their lives.
Post by: stooges44 on March 11, 2020, 11:18:13 AM
Democrats are all about hysterics. Save the whales. Save the penguins. Save the Arctic. Global Warming. Racist!!
Republicans have better things to do with their lives.
Yes! You put into words exactly what I was thinking.
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 11:35:33 AM
Republicans have better things to do with their lives.Like going into hysterics about illegals etc.
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 12:10:38 PM
Democrats are about twice as likely as Republicans to say the coronavirus poses an imminent threat to the United States, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted this week. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-polarization/americans-divided-on-party-lines-over-risk-from-coronavirus-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN20T2O3)
I saw a few segments from Fox - including Tucker Carlson - criticizing Trumps handling of the virus. Its already at the point that everyone is taking it seriously so now we are ready to argue over nuance of how serious each side is, and how much blame Trump deserves.
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 12:12:10 PM
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/10/21171481/coronavirus-us-cases-quarantine-cancellation
Tax deadline likely to be pushed off:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/10/coronavirus-trump-administration-likely-to-push-back-april-15-tax-filing-deadline.html
Post by: lakewood34 on March 11, 2020, 12:21:58 PM
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/El-Al-to-place-80-percent-of-entire-workforce-on-unpaid-leave-report-620557
Post by: stooges44 on March 11, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/9632b178af69e434af2b420daa2130ef.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/c83eec1a1ad2871a2b9e0877fd35900e.png)
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
The importance of flattening the curve:But how would this be helping to this extent if the testing is inadequate?
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/10/21171481/coronavirus-us-cases-quarantine-cancellation
Post by: ExGingi on March 11, 2020, 01:40:08 PM
Banning gatherings of 100+ people (major impact on large shuls). Anyone with fever or difficulty breathing must self-quarantine and call to be tested.
Avoid visiting the elderly. Avoid accompanying people to the hospital unless absolutely necessary.
At this point not closing schools. Universities to implement remote learning.
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 11, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 11, 2020, 02:08:51 PM
Post by: stooges44 on March 11, 2020, 02:34:39 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 06:27:36 PM
https://theweek.com/speedreads/901470/coronavirus-10-times-more-lethal-than-seasonal-flu-trumps-task-force-immunologist-says
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 07:44:47 PM
But how would this be helping to this extent if the testing is inadequate?
Testing is definitely important towards that goal, and hopefully the US will have extensive testing done very soon. But there are other methods to flatten the curve, including canceling all large events/gatherings, greater public awareness in regards to sanitizing and avoiding infection, and of course, stocking up on toilet paper.
Post by: moko on March 11, 2020, 07:50:54 PM
Testing is definitely important towards that goal, and hopefully the US will have extensive testing done very soon. But there are other methods to flatten the curve, including canceling all large events/gatherings, greater public awareness in regards to sanitizing and avoiding infection, and of course, stocking up on toilet paper.don't forget bread and milk
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 07:57:01 PM
Testing is definitely important towards that goal, and hopefully the US will have extensive testing done very soon. But there are other methods to flatten the curve, including canceling all large events/gatherings, greater public awareness in regards to sanitizing and avoiding infection, and of course, stocking up on toilet paper.Of course there are other methods which are not dependent upon testing, but those have not really been implemented. Here we have the curve flattening based on dealing only with those surrounding cases requiring hospitalization.
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 08:35:11 PM
Of course there are other methods which are not dependent upon testing, but those have not really been implemented. Here we have the curve flattening based on dealing only with those surrounding cases requiring hospitalization.
Agree with everything youre saying, and Im not against criticizing the US response. Unfortunately the US has been extremely incompetent in dealing with the virus and its stemming from the very top.
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 09:37:25 PM
Agree with everything youre saying, and Im not against criticizing the US response. Unfortunately the US has been extremely incompetent in dealing with the virus and its stemming from the very top.You are missing my point. If the higher level of testing is essential then how is it flattening? This makes it seem that the current response or working very well to avoid people overloading the health-care system while containing as much as possible. If everyone with a seasonal allergy starts coming to the hospital that in itself will cause so many more to catch it. There are so many different variables that it will be impossible to know the best response until it is hindsight. Even then it will be speculative.
Post by: NotMeirKey on March 11, 2020, 09:39:32 PM
There are so many different variables that it will be impossible to know the best response until it is hindsight. Even then it will be speculative.You need massive testing and then quarantine where needed.
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 09:41:19 PM
You are missing my point. If the higher level of testing is essential then how is it flattening? This makes it seem that the current response or working very well to avoid people overloading the health-care system while containing as much as possible. If everyone with a seasonal allergy starts coming to the hospital that in itself will cause so many more to catch it. There are so many different variables that it will be impossible to know the best response until it is hindsight. Even then it will be speculative.
I still don't understand your point I guess. What I'm saying is that we need to strive to flatten the curve. If we effectively quarantining ourselves we will be flattening the curve along with some other measures.
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 09:47:05 PM
You need massive testing and then quarantine where needed.How do you plan on implementing massive testing without risking further spread due to the testing?
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 09:48:05 PM
How do you plan on implementing massive testing without risking further spread due to the testing?
Drive through testing
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 11, 2020, 09:48:17 PM
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 09:48:23 PM
I still don't understand your point I guess. What I'm saying is that we need to strive to flatten the curve. If we effectively quarantining ourselves we will be flattening the curve along with some other measures.Extensive testing can't be both essential to flattening the curve and the curve flattening without testing at the same time.
Post by: NotMeirKey on March 11, 2020, 09:56:01 PM
How do you plan on implementing massive testing without risking further spread due to the testing?By taking the proper precautions. Leave it to the medical experts. Risk vs reward.
Post by: aygart on March 11, 2020, 10:03:03 PM
By taking the proper precautions. Leave it to the medical experts. Risk vs reward.Meanwhile places with massive testing also have overloads on their healthcare system.
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 10:04:24 PM
Extensive testing can't be both essential to flattening the curve and the curve flattening without testing at the same time.
Maybe it's booming headache but I still cannot understand this.
Post by: NotMeirKey on March 11, 2020, 10:05:43 PM
Meanwhile places with maybe treating also have overloads on their healthcare system.We are not prepared for this. The worst thing we can do (according to the experts) is not test.
Post by: grodnoking on March 11, 2020, 10:15:25 PM
Testing is definitely important towards that goal, and hopefully the US will have extensive testing done very soon. But there are other methods to flatten the curve, including canceling all large events/gatherings, greater public awareness in regards to sanitizing and avoiding infection, and of course, stocking up on toilet paper.Correct. The virus is here and it's spreading at an alarming rate. There is no containing it now. The best we can do is to slow the spread down.
Post by: Joel on March 11, 2020, 10:25:36 PM
Post by: Yef on March 11, 2020, 11:38:06 PM
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 11, 2020, 11:48:27 PM
One thing that hasn't added up to me in everything i have read. If the only people primarily vulnerable are those with compromised immune/respiratory systems, why are doctors who are treating patients dying from the virus? Unless they already have compromised systems.....
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 11:54:46 PM
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
One thing that hasn't added up to me in everything i have read. If the only people primarily vulnerable are those with compromised immune/respiratory systems, why are doctors who are treating patients dying from the virus? Unless they already have compromised systems.....
A) its affecting healthy people as well, albeit a much lower rate.
B) Im seeing claims that being exposed to a higher viral load puts them at higher risk for complications. Havent seen that proven but perhaps we know it from other viruses.
C) COVID Doctors are overworked, extremely exhausted and more vulnerable. What I dont understand about this explanation is once they contract the virus they have plenty of time to rest up. Dr Li Wenliang died about 42 days after getting infected.
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 11, 2020, 11:56:19 PM
A) its affecting healthy people as well, albeit a much lower rate.
B) Im seeing claims that being exposed to a higher viral load puts them more at risk. Havent seen that proven but perhaps we know it from other viruses.
Thanx.
Figured the latter but havent seen that verified anywhere.
Post by: yuneeq on March 11, 2020, 11:57:38 PM
Thanx.
Figured the latter but havent seen that verified anywhere.
Also see edit
Post by: etech0 on March 11, 2020, 11:58:53 PM
Post by: TimT on March 12, 2020, 12:08:17 AM
Just wondering, is the virus still going on in China or is it finished up?We will never know the truth as the individuals broadcasting the truth to the world have disappeared & the government covers it all up.
Post by: Chapshnell on March 12, 2020, 01:06:50 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 12, 2020, 01:10:47 AM
We will never know the truth as the individuals broadcasting the truth to the world have disappeared & the government covers it all up.
Its not finished in China, but there are many ways to verify that its been getting much better over there.
How long does it take people to recover?
Ive seen 3-6 week hospitalization period quoted often, obviously only for those that are part of the 20% that get severely ill.
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 12, 2020, 01:21:12 AM
Post by: Proisrael on March 12, 2020, 03:48:35 AM
Its not finished in China, but there are many ways to verify that its been getting much better over there.
Seeing the major corporations saying that they are putting people back to work is a good sign that things have gotten much much better there.
Post by: Proisrael on March 12, 2020, 05:07:20 AM
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 07:57:25 AM
B) Im seeing claims that being exposed to a higher viral load puts them at higher risk for complications. Havent seen that proven but perhaps we know it from other viruses.This would presumably fit with the speculation that the dangers are coming from the immune response rather than from the actual virus, that being a speculative reason why children are not being affected much.
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 08:18:42 AM
Post by: etech0 on March 12, 2020, 08:22:11 AM
Ive seen 3-6 week hospitalization period quoted often, obviously only for those that are part of the 20% that get severely ill.Thanks! Was wondering about the others as well. People who don't feel sick and are only tested because someone they were in contact with is sick. How long are they contagious / quarantined?
Post by: srap on March 12, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
How can it not be all over Lakewood when half the town was at ECAP?If, indeed, someone were infected by 2/18/20, that would have been three weeks ago. It could be that there are one week old cases walking around without major symptoms yet (but still spreading it to to others). Additionally, that was in the very early stages in the US. People who were exposed were probably not exposed continually to multiple persons. Their immune system wasn't repeatedly bombarded with new exposures like what happens when around larger numbers of infected people.
STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS and even GROUPS.
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 09:10:32 AM
If, indeed, someone were infected by 2/18/20, that would have been three weeks ago. It could be that there are one week old cases walking around without major symptoms yet (but still spreading it to to others). Additionally, that was in the very early stages in the US. People who were exposed were probably not exposed continually to multiple persons. Their immune system wasn't repeatedly bombarded with new exposures like what happens when around larger numbers of infected people.That was the same time that the lawyer was there.
STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS and even GROUPS.
Post by: yuneeq on March 12, 2020, 09:31:20 AM
How can it not be all over Lakewood when half the town was at ECAP?
Who said it isnt all over town? It takes time to spread, its starts as a slow drip and grows exponentially
Post by: yuneeq on March 12, 2020, 09:44:35 AM
Thanks! Was wondering about the others as well. People who don't feel sick and are only tested because someone they were in contact with is sick. How long are they contagious / quarantined?
If they are tested positive, I believe they need to be tested again after 14 days and get a negative result. A couple issues with that - the tests do have some false negatives, and there have been people that recovered and were "reinfected", which supposedly means they either weren't tested right or the virus was undetectable at that point.
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 12, 2020, 09:47:12 AM
If, indeed, someone were infected by 2/18/20, that would have been three weeks ago. It could be that there are one week old cases walking around without major symptoms yet (but still spreading it to to others). Additionally, that was in the very early stages in the US. People who were exposed were probably not exposed continually to multiple persons. Their immune system wasn't repeatedly bombarded with new exposures like what happens when around larger numbers of infected people.
STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS and even GROUPS.
more info on this? Can you please link an article?
Post by: yuneeq on March 12, 2020, 09:55:10 AM
If they are tested positive, I believe they need to be tested again after 14 days and get a negative result. A couple issues with that - the tests do have some false negatives, and there have been people that recovered and were "reinfected", which supposedly means they either weren't tested right or the virus was undetectable at that point.
Just found this new article - "Patients with the new coronavirus keep the pathogen in their respiratory tract for as long as 37 days, a new study found, suggesting they could remain infectious for many weeks"
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/coronavirus-can-live-in-patients-for-five-weeks-after-contagion
Post by: stooges44 on March 12, 2020, 10:55:45 AM
Quote
As many communities are making the decision to shut down, if you do have an opportunity to pray in a minyan over the next couple of days then please enjoy it, honor it, cherish it and celebrate it. Sing, dance and thank Hashem!
Even something as simple as praying with a minyan can disappear in an instant. Say Amen and dance with joy that you have the opportunity to pray with a minyan today. May we merit to be healthy and always pray in a minyan.
The next minyan you go to may be the last minyan youll have for a while. Enjoy every second of it and speak to Hashem from your heart.
Wishing you all a Happy and Healthy day!
Post by: NTorch on March 12, 2020, 11:01:04 AM
As many communities are making the decision to shut down, if you do have an opportunity to pray in a minyan over the next couple of days then please enjoy it, honor it, cherish it and celebrate it. Sing, dance and thank Hashem!
Even something as simple as praying with a minyan can disappear in an instant. Say Amen and dance with joy that you have the opportunity to pray with a minyan today. May we merit to be healthy and always pray in a minyan.
The next minyan you go to may be the last minyan youll have for a while. Enjoy every second of it and speak to Hashem from your heart.
Wishing you all a Happy and Healthy day!
I was thinking this yesterday as well. We need to appreciate being able to attend out minyanim and shuls.
Post by: stooges44 on March 12, 2020, 11:14:26 AM
BREAKING: Congress shutting US Capitol, House and Senate office buildings to public until April 1 in reaction to coronavirus. https://t.co/15buymaDp9
— The Associated Press (@AP) March 12, 2020
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 12, 2020, 11:30:53 AM
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 12, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Post by: ltttc on March 12, 2020, 12:16:08 PM
WA is reporting that all schools in israel will be closed until after pesach, true?They mean Bein Hazmanim
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 12, 2020, 12:20:33 PM
They mean Bein HazmanimSaw that joke, its 2 weeks before bein hazmanim
Post by: Yonah on March 12, 2020, 12:21:52 PM
Post by: Ergel on March 12, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 12, 2020, 02:25:30 PM
Post by: Shmobaum on March 12, 2020, 02:45:49 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/new-york-gov-cuomo-bans-gatherings-of-500-or-more-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.htmlNJ similar announcement gonna follow shortly ...
Post by: cohen220 on March 12, 2020, 02:57:04 PM
Post by: Shmobaum on March 12, 2020, 03:13:24 PM
Nail in the coffin for all NY/NJ Pesach programs???Hope not! Theyll keep it to >500
Post by: Yard sale on March 12, 2020, 03:32:13 PM
Given the incubation period and the fact that its a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.
People arent interested in hearing that the sky is falling even if the sky is falling....
Post by: Abey on March 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Post by: Yard sale on March 12, 2020, 03:47:18 PM
https://www.the-sun.com/news/528592/president-trump-coronavirus-brazil-aide-mike-pence/
The two have interacted with dozens of to lawmakers and business leaders in the last few days alone.
10, 9, 8, 7, 6.....
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 03:48:33 PM
And now we have Trump and Pence posing with a COVID positive individual and not going into quarantine.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/528592/president-trump-coronavirus-brazil-aide-mike-pence/
The two have interacted with dozens of to lawmakers and business leaders in the last few days alone.
10, 9, 8, 7, 6.....
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114769.0
Madam President?
Post by: whYME on March 12, 2020, 03:55:38 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 12, 2020, 04:17:03 PM
Post by: avromie7 on March 12, 2020, 04:46:54 PM
All the officials who did not impose martial law around the cities with COVID because of the economy, and the FAA for not stopping flights immediately because of economic impact , and hoping this will go away here we are with covid spreading and economy in the ground. Well done !These things have humongous impacts, and it's not just the economy. This rhetoric of pre-emptively shutting down the entire country makes it sound like we're discussing the black plague.
Post by: Yehudaa on March 12, 2020, 05:04:41 PM
Prime minister Trudeau is apparently in isolation as his wife is sick and being tested.
Post by: YoniPDX on March 12, 2020, 06:27:48 PM
After 9/11 they closed the market for like 5-6 trading days.
With all the other shutdowns - seems like it might preserve somw of the wealth in 401k's.
Market in a freefall. I guess tweets is not going to help.
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
POTUS should shut down stock market for 7 days, then revisit in 7 days.If he did that it would take more than a decade to recover.
After 9/11 they closed the market for like 5-6 trading days.
With all the other shutdowns - seems like it might preserve somw of the wealth in 401k's.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 12, 2020, 07:38:07 PM
POTUS should shut down stock market for 7 days, then revisit in 7 days.+1
After 9/11 they closed the market for like 5-6 trading days.
With all the other shutdowns - seems like it might preserve somw of the wealth in 401k's.
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2020, 07:39:33 PM
If he did that it would take more than a decade to recover.
Some people here are way too young to remember that, or even to remember 9/11 as an event that happened in their lifetime.
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 08:00:06 PM
Some people here are way too young to remember that, or even to remember 9/11 as an event that happened in their lifetime.I guess then they would not know how many years it took the NASDAQ to recover from the dot-com bubble? ;)
Post by: zale on March 12, 2020, 08:07:24 PM
If he did that it would take more than a decade to recover.
Is there no way to protect the markets from catastrophe? I'm not an expert on this, but I would think they should have some kind of measures in place in the event of a world war etc.
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 08:12:37 PM
Is there no way to protect the markets from catastrophe? I'm not an expert on this, but I would think they should have some kind of measures in place in the event of a world war etc.Nope.
Post by: NTorch on March 12, 2020, 08:19:17 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/491261
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 08:26:51 PM
Is there no way to protect the markets from catastrophe? I'm not an expert on this, but I would think they should have some kind of measures in place in the event of a world war etc.Prevent people from getting their money?
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 09:09:01 PM
Post by: stooges44 on March 12, 2020, 10:57:13 PM
Post by: yitzgar on March 12, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 12, 2020, 11:59:07 PM
US cases going up at a higher rate than Italy. Not taking drastic measures now will mean more deaths later. When will our leadership act?Twice as high. And that's with grossly insufficient testing. We have no leadership. USA is doomed.
Market realized that.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 13, 2020, 12:01:09 AM
How does the US healthcare system compare to Italy?Italy has more beds per capita. USA may have better doctors, but Italy has national medicine with better organization than the fragmented incomprhensive system in the USA.
Regardless, even if USA is 2x as good, it's just a matter of time until it's overwhelmed as well.
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 12:01:43 AM
How does the US healthcare system compare to Italy?Not prepared the same as Italy to handle what is coming if we don't do something. We have less beds per capita than Italy.
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2020, 07:41:40 AM
https://col.org.il/news/123603
I honestly don't see how the rule makes much of a difference. There's close contact, holding hands etc. Unless everyone has 100% awareness of hand washing and sanitizing OFTEN (probably in such a setting should be greater than 30 times per hour) this can easily contribute to the spread.
I was at my BIL's Chabad House Purim party this week. There too I saw 0 awareness. Buffet out there for everyone to help themselves, etc etc.
Maybe rather than limit gathering size there should be mandatory hand sanitizing stands every 10-15 feet in gatherings (and shuls).
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 13, 2020, 08:06:13 AM
Here's a post with pictures from a wedding in Kfar Chabad with the 100+ people rule enforced.You cut down on exponential spread if crows are maintained.
https://col.org.il/news/123603
I honestly don't see how the rule makes much of a difference. There's close contact, holding hands etc. Unless everyone has 100% awareness of hand washing and sanitizing OFTEN (probably in such a setting should be greater than 30 times per hour) this can easily contribute to the spread.
I was at my BIL's Chabad House Purim party this week. There too I saw 0 awareness. Buffet out there for everyone to help themselves, etc etc.
Maybe rather than limit gathering size there should be mandatory hand sanitizing stands every 10-15 feet in gatherings (and shuls).
People should likewise have commons sense not to hold hands. There's shared responsibility here.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 13, 2020, 08:11:47 AM
Here's a post with pictures from a wedding in Kfar Chabad with the 100+ people rule enforced.
https://col.org.il/news/123603
I honestly don't see how the rule makes much of a difference. There's close contact, holding hands etc. Unless everyone has 100% awareness of hand washing and sanitizing OFTEN (probably in such a setting should be greater than 30 times per hour) this can easily contribute to the spread.
I was at my BIL's Chabad House Purim party this week. There too I saw 0 awareness. Buffet out there for everyone to help themselves, etc etc.
Maybe rather than limit gathering size there should be mandatory hand sanitizing stands every 10-15 feet in gatherings (and shuls).
Purim was frightening. 0 awareness. 0 precautions. 0 change in behaviors. I'm usually the skeptic and the one saying not to make a fuss and to calm the hysteria. Now I'm being called a fear monger. I'm getting laughed at for not shaking hands with people.
The lack of precautions in our community is staggering.
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2020, 08:23:50 AM
Purim was frightening. 0 awareness. 0 precautions. 0 change in behaviors. I'm usually the skeptic and the one saying not to make a fuss and to calm the hysteria. Now I'm being called a fear monger. I'm getting laughed at for not shaking hands with people.I heard that your uncle's party turned into a family gathering as no one showed up.
The lack of precautions in our community is staggering.
But in our community (and families) I share your feelings. I too am the one to shun hysteria, now I'm being mocked. Though I might be the only one still thinking that my FIL shouldn't cancel his planned trip here for Pesach. I just think that while he is over 80, traveling now in business class through places with high awareness might not increase his risk.
Post by: gingyguy on March 13, 2020, 08:30:27 AM
Simple reason for that is that many people dont have access general population does , and they really have no idea how severe it really is
The lack of precautions in our community is staggering.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 13, 2020, 08:32:25 AM
Simple reason for that is that many people dont have access general population does , and they really have no idea how severe it really isLocal doctors have been absolutely terrible at providing info and guidance.
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 08:32:43 AM
Simple reason for that is that many people dont have access general population does , and they really have no idea how severe it really isI would normal hit one of my hotkey responses but see no need to. ;)
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 08:33:58 AM
Local doctors have been absolutely terrible at providing info and guidance....and when they do. ::)
All I know, is that my pediatrician told someone to turn off the news and relax. He said its not much worse than the flu
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 13, 2020, 08:34:31 AM
I would normal hit one of my hotkey responses but see no need to. ;)
The whole point is that we should be advising people *not* to get out more
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 08:35:27 AM
The whole point is that we should be advising people *not* to get out moreTrue but a catch 22.
Post by: yuneeq on March 13, 2020, 08:44:19 AM
Purim was frightening. 0 awareness. 0 precautions. 0 change in behaviors. I'm usually the skeptic and the one saying not to make a fuss and to calm the hysteria. Now I'm being called a fear monger. I'm getting laughed at for not shaking hands with people.
The lack of precautions in our community is staggering.
I spoke to a community rabbi in Brooklyn last night, he wouldnt agree that the biggest cluster of cases in the US might have anything to do with our tight knit lifestyle. Despite nothing of this sort happening elsewhere besides the South Korean cult. Apparently it couldve happened with anyone that got infected and attended a bat mitzvah, funeral, shul all within a few days.
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 13, 2020, 09:04:35 AM
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 13, 2020, 09:04:42 AM
Post by: NTorch on March 13, 2020, 09:32:15 AM
Post by: avromie7 on March 13, 2020, 10:18:49 AM
POTUS should shut down stock market for 7 days, then revisit in 7 days.The market will come roaring back, the only ones who will lose are the ones who take their money out now. Anyone not close to or in retirement has nothing to worry about.
After 9/11 they closed the market for like 5-6 trading days.
With all the other shutdowns - seems like it might preserve somw of the wealth in 401k's.
Post by: jr611 on March 13, 2020, 10:28:40 AM
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 10:43:44 AM
The market will come roaring back, the only ones who will lose are the ones who take their money out now. Anyone not close to or in retirement has nothing to worry about....and you base this on your crystal ball?
Post by: avromie7 on March 13, 2020, 10:47:47 AM
...and you base this on your crystal ball?I base it on what's happened every time.
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 10:50:28 AM
I base it on what's happened every time.The old past performance is a guarantee of future performance. ::)
I guess you missed the insurance story.
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2020, 10:53:37 AM
I base it on what's happened every time.When was the last time this happened? Especially when combined with the collapse in oil.
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 10:56:02 AM
I base it on what's happened every time.Based on this every time it happened how long do you need for it to recover? 1, 2, 5 10 or more years?
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 11:05:25 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 13, 2020, 11:27:45 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/new-coronavirus-test-10-times-faster-is-fda-approved/ar-BB118ePt?ocid=spartanntp
10x faster than before but still 15x slower than China...
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 11:47:01 AM
10x faster than before but still 15x slower than China...Yup but better than what we got. Every little bit helps.
Post by: cgr on March 13, 2020, 12:01:42 PM
True?
Post by: TimT on March 13, 2020, 12:15:54 PM
CROWN HEIGHTS: Principals notified parents all CH Schools are closed, saying there are 3 confirmed coronavirus cases in the Jewish community.https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114643.msg2210460#msg2210460
True?
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 13, 2020, 12:22:00 PM
China now blaming US military.
For the Wuhan China Coronavirus? When the name COVID-19 was carefully chosen this was predicted to happen.
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
For the Wuhan China Coronavirus?Yes!
Post by: shwarmabob on March 13, 2020, 12:37:24 PM
When was the last time this happened? Especially when combined with the collapse in oil.Japan. If you wait long enough. They are still waiting.
Post by: yitzgar on March 13, 2020, 01:04:15 PM
China now blaming US military.Lol
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
LolIt would be funny but that is going to sour already bad relations.
Post by: NTorch on March 13, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
It would be funny but that is going to sour already bad relations.
Especially since the money that the Federal Govt is going to use for the bailout is borrowed from China.
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 01:20:46 PM
Post by: yitzgar on March 13, 2020, 01:27:17 PM
VA have done 70 tests so far. Yes you heard right, not 70k, not 7k, not 700 but 70. A total disgrace!!!I don't get it. How hard is it to test?
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 01:32:00 PM
I don't get it.Join the rest of the country.
Post by: Luvisrael on March 13, 2020, 05:59:50 PM
Post by: Hjay on March 14, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
193 cases
All leisure venues will be closed, essential services remain open.
Gatherings of more than 10 ppl indoors banned
They will be technologically tracking (cell phones) ppl who are supposed to be in quarantine!!
Lots of questions but this is the info Ive seen so far.
Post by: CountValentine on March 14, 2020, 06:44:51 PM
Israel update -Any deaths?
Post by: Luvisrael on March 14, 2020, 08:45:39 PM
https://wobm.com/pregnant-toms-river-woman-is-ocean-countys-2nd-presumptive-case-of-covid-19/
Post by: stooges44 on March 14, 2020, 08:45:47 PM
Post by: Luvisrael on March 14, 2020, 08:46:29 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/iran-coronavirus-outbreak-graves/costs to view
Post by: NTorch on March 14, 2020, 10:22:08 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/17-700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-155735689.html
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 12:16:29 AM
Post by: iluv2travel on March 15, 2020, 12:18:17 AM
Any deaths?
B"h not
Post by: chevron on March 15, 2020, 12:26:26 AM
Hey Dan - Man has 17000 bottles he can't sell
https://www.yahoo.com/news/17-700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-155735689.html
This article infuriated me. I believe in capitalism in the free market but this is messed up.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 12:29:03 AM
This article infuriated me. I believe in capitalism in the free market but this is messed up.What do you feel should happen here?
Post by: iluv2travel on March 15, 2020, 01:15:43 AM
The amount of US cases has been doubling every 3 days as is the amount of new cases per day.
In Italy its shooting up daily, more than 2k additional cases per day, even though they are under lockdown. Why aren't their numbers of new cases going down?
Post by: chevron on March 15, 2020, 01:31:22 AM
What do you feel should happen here?
I hope the factories increase productions and stores re stock and these people can go sell on the regular market for whatever.
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 01:53:28 AM
In Italy its shooting up daily, more than 2k additional cases per day, even though they are under lockdown. Why aren't their numbers of new cases going down?
Can be many reasons
-5 day average to start seeing symptoms
-increased testing
-family members infecting each other
-people ignoring restrictions
Post by: ilherman on March 15, 2020, 01:54:57 AM
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 15, 2020, 01:56:04 AM
Can be many reasonsPeople who ignore restrictions are highly irresponsible, selfish people. That is why Israel had to track people using their phones to ensure they keep to the quarantine...
-5 day average to start seeing symptoms
-increased testing
-family members infecting each other
-people ignoring restrictions
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 02:01:10 AM
How does it work? Let's say I wanna get tested, where do I go?
You dont go anywhere. Best would be to make a phone call to your dr or video appointment. Bad idea to visit dr or hospital when you may be contagious. The Dr can advise if there is a need to get tested. And then most likely you wont get tested regardless of what the dr thinks.
Post by: chevron on March 15, 2020, 02:08:27 AM
How does it work? Let's say I wanna get tested, where do I go?
You ? No where... You stay away from humans ..
At this point, we don't have the capacity to test every Joe shmoe
The main things you can do is isolate yourself and constant cleaning.
As long as you don't have any severe conditions like extreme vomiting shortness of breath etc etc you stay home, avoid all people. Hydrate, eat healthy.. wash your hands again.
I am not a doctor but I'm pretty sure that's what they advise.
Btw change your pillow cases!
Post by: chevron on March 15, 2020, 02:14:23 AM
Post by: RebTuvia on March 15, 2020, 02:49:36 AM
What do you feel should happen here?He should go sell it to medical facilities for cost price.
Post by: RebTuvia on March 15, 2020, 02:52:05 AM
Join the rest of the country.Why was the CDC initially so reluctant to produce test kits? Were there any regulations that kept this back?
Post by: chevron on March 15, 2020, 03:07:59 AM
He should go sell it to medical facilities for cost price.
I don't think that medical facilities are having such a hard time procuring this stuff.
I'd like to think not. I think that they have a different supply chain logistics. But yeah they may have shortages too.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 07:04:48 AM
What do you feel should happen here?Besides thrown in jail?
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 07:08:08 AM
How does it work? Let's say I wanna get tested, where do I go?There are not enough test for the general public to get tested no matter what our leaders are saying. So for now you just have to wait unless you start showing signs.
Post by: israshot on March 15, 2020, 08:01:31 AM
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 15, 2020, 09:01:50 AM
How does it work? Let's say I wanna get tested, where do I go?Start home and isolate yourself. Do not go get tested and endanger anyone
Post by: yitzgar on March 15, 2020, 09:12:00 AM
Start home and isolate yourself. Do not go get tested and endanger anyoneOr go to a drive thru test location
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 15, 2020, 10:21:40 AM
Or go to a drive thru test locationThat is probably the smartest idea.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 10:24:09 AM
That is probably the smartest idea.We should mimic what has been working in other countries.
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on March 15, 2020, 10:27:12 AM
That is probably the smartest idea.
It's alleged that it will give too many false negatives, given that it's only 90% accurate.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 10:28:28 AM
It's alleged that it will give too many false negatives, given that it's only 90% accurate.That is not good, source?
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on March 15, 2020, 10:29:49 AM
That is not good, source?https://www.roi-nj.com/2020/03/14/opinion/life-at-the-epicenter-of-n-j-s-coronavirus-outbreak/
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 10:33:11 AM
https://www.roi-nj.com/2020/03/14/opinion/life-at-the-epicenter-of-n-j-s-coronavirus-outbreak/I hope the blame game doesn't start happening.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 10:34:17 AM
I hope the blame game doesn't start happening.You have been around long enough.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 10:35:43 AM
You have been around long enough.I hope for the best but am a realist.
I wonder if anyone thought of contacting their local USPS for masks. I will bet they have tons of they laying around.
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 10:37:53 AM
I hope for the best but am a realist.
I wonder if anyone thought of contacting their local USPS for masks. I will bet they have tons of they laying around.
They are probably conserving them in order to keep the USPS operating.
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 10:42:37 AM
(https://i.gyazo.com/da97765d4c6d4125250cb5b4de32923c.png)
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 10:54:08 AM
We should mimic what has been working in other countries.What is that short of welding apartment buildings shut?
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 10:57:19 AM
What is that short of welding apartment buildings shut?Is losing some freedom temporarily to save lives worth it?
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 15, 2020, 10:58:03 AM
Is losing some freedom temporarily to save lives worth it?Think no access to food, medical care etc.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 10:59:11 AM
Is losing some freedom temporarily to save lives worth it?That is not some freedom. It is placing large populations in jail with little bssis. Is it even clear that it really worked?
What may be working is S Korea.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 11:00:39 AM
Is it even clear that it really worked?The limited info so far says it does work. Look at China if those numbers can be believed.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 11:02:36 AM
The limited info so far says it does work. Look at China if those numbers can be believed.They can't and never could. There could be a million fatalities and we would never know. It can very well be that it peaked naturally.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 11:04:28 AM
It can very well be that it peaked naturally.What evidence do you have that this is even a remote possibility?
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 11:12:49 AM
Americans should be prepared that they are going to have to hunker down significantly more than we as a country are doing, Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on NBCs Meet the Press.
Asked if he would prefer some kind of 14-day national shutdown to flatten the curve of Covid-19 spread, Fauci said -- in one of five interviews on Sunday talk shows -- I would prefer as much as we possibly could.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 11:19:43 AM
What evidence do you have that this is even a remote possibility?There is no way of knowing one way or another. We don't even know the truth about what is happenng there in the first place.
Post by: m65 on March 15, 2020, 11:34:29 AM
They are probably conserving them in order to keep the USPS operating.we can restart the ups method
Post by: TimT on March 15, 2020, 11:40:30 AM
Look at China if those numbers can be believed.The big IF. I personally dont believe anything coming from their state run media. Do their numbers include the people welded shut & the ones dragged off ? The ones I believed for honest reporting have unfortunately been quarantined indefinitely.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 11:45:11 AM
There is no way of knowing one way or another. We don't even know the truth about what is happenng there in the first place.You can keep telling yourself that and I will listen to all the experts.
There is ZERO evidence China peaked naturally!!!
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 11:49:57 AM
You can keep telling yourself that and I will listen to all the experts.Killing everyone with a fever also works.
There is ZERO evidence China peaked naturally!!!
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 11:53:20 AM
Killing everyone with a fever also works.So does the A-bomb but just like your other posts it is pie in the sky. Listen to the experts!!!
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
So does the A-bomb but just like your other posts it is pie in the sky. Listen to the experts!!!How close did China get to that?
Post by: Yard sale on March 15, 2020, 12:29:19 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/03/15/new-yorkers-should-assume-theyve-been-exposed-to-coronavirus-officials/amp/
Post by: TimT on March 15, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 01:29:36 PM
Hizzoner still ignoring calls to shut schools down.
להבדיל
הניחו לו לזקן עד שתכלה הפת.
By Monday or Tuesday it's likely to happen.
Post by: Let3 on March 15, 2020, 01:54:01 PM
Older people dont normally have young children in school or work (assuming 70+ at least) as much etc.
Post by: Chapshnell on March 15, 2020, 01:57:00 PM
What I dont get is that if the risk is mostly for older people - why not only quarantine the older people (or people with peer is ting conditions) and not shut down the entire economy?
Older people dont normally have young children in school or work (assuming 70+ at least) as much etc.
Hospitals wont be able to handle the problem if everyone gets sick.
Simply not enough beds, respirators etc etc
Post by: Let3 on March 15, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Hospitals wont be able to handle the problem if everyone gets sick.Younger people dont usually get that sick to need respirators etc (from what I understand)
Simply not enough beds, respirators etc etc
Post by: chevron on March 15, 2020, 02:01:11 PM
Younger people dont usually get that sick to need respirators etc (from what I understand)
First of all if they have an underlying medical condition then yes they will.
#2 Even in bad cases of the flu season, hospitals can be over crowded.
Supposedly this is much worse than the flu in symptoms
Post by: Let3 on March 15, 2020, 02:03:24 PM
Thats not the entire population and the whole economy with it...
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 02:06:05 PM
Younger people dont usually get that sick to need respirators etc (from what I understand)
20% hospitalization rate includes a lot of young and healthy people.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 15, 2020, 02:07:59 PM
They need to shut cities down *now*
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 02:13:16 PM
There weren't enough beds in some NJ hospitals for flu patients *last year*.
They need to shut cities down *now*
Do you think it's time to revert back to your previous signature line?
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 15, 2020, 02:29:43 PM
20% hospitalization rate includes a lot of young and healthy people.
Source? and please clarify what you mean by alot? Not suggesting that young people shouldn't have a societal obligation to socially distance (obviously they should).
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 02:56:10 PM
Source? and please clarify what you mean by alot? Not suggesting that young people shouldn't have a societal obligation to socially distance (obviously they should).
20% hospitalization rate: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
What do I mean by a lot - don't have an exact number for this - but even if it's 2-3% for young/healthy it's enough to contribute to overwhelming the hospitals. Currently from anecdotal data, eg. all 11 patients in Holy name are under 48, and 32 y/o healthy doctor in Hackensack was first case and in ICU, Dr Li Wenliang was young and healthy, etc. Also assuming that if 20% is correct, there's got to be healthy people part of that number.
Post by: srap on March 15, 2020, 03:50:09 PM
Post by: ckmk47 on March 15, 2020, 04:44:18 PM
What I dont get is that if the risk is mostly for older people - why not only quarantine the older people (or people with peer is ting conditions) and not shut down the entire economy?I agree with you. Although the talk here says that if we allow all the young people to get it at once, we'd overwhelm the medical system, too.
Older people dont normally have young children in school or work (assuming 70+ at least) as much etc.
Post by: Proisrael on March 15, 2020, 05:10:35 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 05:13:47 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/15/federal-reserve-cuts-rates-to-zero-and-launches-massive-700-billion-quantitative-easing-program.htmlThe economy is toast. Nothing can will cure that except time.
Post by: hvaces42 on March 15, 2020, 05:17:41 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/15/federal-reserve-cuts-rates-to-zero-and-launches-massive-700-billion-quantitative-easing-program.htmlCopy and paste from 2008? What are today's Merrill and Bear Stearns?
Post by: cgr on March 15, 2020, 05:23:21 PM
Gov Cuomo announced Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk & NYC schools will close w/ childcare for essential workers & food programs
— Melissa DeRosa (@melissadderosa) March 15, 2020
NYC must have a plan for childcare &food in place within the next 24 hours
Schools will close in NYC early this week; Nassau/SUFFOLK/Westchester tomorrow
Post by: Proisrael on March 15, 2020, 05:23:38 PM
The economy is toast. Nothing can will cure that except time.
Consumer spending is through the roof :)
Post by: cgr on March 15, 2020, 05:23:45 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 05:26:28 PM
Consumer spending is through the roof :)We have a thread for this garbage. Please use it.
Post by: Proisrael on March 15, 2020, 05:30:07 PM
We have a thread for this garbage. Please use it.
Listen we missed you but its suspect that when the country is doing so well you disappeared suddenly when a virus hits you resurface.......Face it your worries have ALL been NONFOUNDED! You are a fear monger. This country will get through this god willing.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 05:31:11 PM
Listen we missed you but its suspect that when the country is doing so well you disappeared suddenly when a virus hits you resurface.......Face it your worries have ALL been NONFOUNDED! You are a fear monger. This country will get through this god willing.
We have a thread for this garbage. Please use it.
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 05:54:35 PM
https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-new-york-will-be-the-next-italy-but-doesnt-have-to-be-54a5c8137d42
South Korea was doing a fantastic job of controlling #COVIDー19 for the first 30 patients. Then #Patient31 came along, did not adhere to social distancing and caused 2 clusters that were responsible for 80% of South Korea's infections. Don't be #Patient31. https://t.co/7e3a1h28eJ
— Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) March 15, 2020
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 06:08:47 PM
20% hospitalization rate: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
What do I mean by a lot - don't have an exact number for this - but even if it's 2-3% for young/healthy it's enough to contribute to overwhelming the hospitals. Currently from anecdotal data, eg. all 11 patients in Holy name are under 48, and 32 y/o healthy doctor in Hackensack was first case and in ICU, Dr Li Wenliang was young and healthy, etc. Also assuming that if 20% is correct, there's got to be healthy people part of that number.
This epidemiologist is saying similar - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
E: https://www.ad.nl/dossier-coronavirus/40-a-50-nederlandse-coronapatienten-op-intensive-cares-meer-dan-de-helft-is-onder-de-vijftig~a058aad2/?referrer=https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 06:13:33 PM
/thread
THREAD: Everyone is talking how S Korea handled Coronavirus well.
— Yossi Gestetner (@YossiGestetner) March 15, 2020
-Their first known case was a day BEFORE the US.
- Despite not doing what SK did, US severity cases (critically ill + dead) as of March 15 is smaller relatively speaking. (US population is 6.5 X the size of SK).
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 06:15:05 PM
What is S Korea doing that is working? Is it what everyone is advocating? Is it really working?Check what the experts are saying. ;)
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 06:21:52 PM
Check what the experts are saying. ;)Where did they discuss what did and didn't work in SK? I was looking for that.
Post by: shapsam on March 15, 2020, 06:23:42 PM
Check what the experts are saying. ;)Which experts, China, Italy, SK or from the UK?
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
Which experts, China, Italy, SK or from the UK?
Or the ones on the news?
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 06:35:40 PM
Where did they discuss what did and didn't work in SK? I was looking for that.Why don't you look at the numbers and then claim it is a natural peak. :P
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Why don't you look at the numbers and then claim it is a natural peak. :PBut what is it that they are doing? Meanwhile they are still very far worse off than us.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 06:44:03 PM
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 06:47:27 PM
What does “crowded” mean?
— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) March 14, 2020
If you can’t stay 6ft away from other people, it’s too close. In general, when going outside try to stay at least 6 feet away from others as much as you possibly can.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 06:52:56 PM
But what is it that they are doing? Meanwhile they are still very far worse off than us.Not sure why you say they are far worse. Are you looking at all the numbers like number of tests? They are testing more people per capita than anywhere else in the world.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 07:01:35 PM
Not sure why you say they are far worse. Are you looking at all the numbers like number of tests? They are testing more people per capita than anywhere else in the world.In a country of 51m they have over 8000 cases . That is much worse than 3000 for 331m or about 1000 in the NY Metro with population 21m. They do seem to be doing better with fatalities for those infected, but 60% of the fatalities were surrounding the one nursing home in WA. NY Metro has 3.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 07:08:04 PM
In a country of 51m they have over 8000 cases . That is much worse than 3000 for 331m or about 1000 in the NY Metro with population 21m. They do seem to be doing better with fatalities for those infected, but 60% of the fatalities were surrounding the one nursing home in WA. NY Metro has 3....and are their numbers going up or down? We know our numbers are going up at a high rate.
Number of cases have to be adjusted for testing. ;)
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 07:24:12 PM
...and are their numbers going up or down? We know our numbers are going up at a high rate.Not nearly as high as theirs did. Lack of testing would account for non serious cases only.
Number of cases have to be adjusted for testing. ;)
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 07:41:24 PM
Not nearly as high as theirs did. Lack of testing would account for non serious cases only.
US is still diagnosing cases posthumously. Numbers dont give me much confidence.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 07:42:48 PM
US is still diagnosing cases posthumously. Numbers dont give me much confidence.Okay, is there any evidence that we are worse than SK or is it presumption?
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
Not nearly as high as theirs did.That wasn't the question but we know why you didn't answer it. Their numbers are going down while ours are going up at a high rate. They are doing something right and we are doing something wrong just like Italy.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 07:53:36 PM
That wasn't the question but we know why you didn't answer it. Their numbers are going down while ours are going up at a high rate. They are doing something right and we are doing something wrong just like Italy.Our numbers are not going up as quickly as theirs did. A successfully flattened curve would still be going up while unflattened curve would already be declining. I am not saying that this is what is happening and, of course, have no data to back this up. That it will rise to be worse than SK is speculation. Once speculating, let's see the optimistic speculation as well. Note that, even with this optimistic view, it is likely to get much worse before it gets better.
Note that for us to be as bad as it was in SK we would need to have about 42,000 cases and close to 600 fatalities.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/yLNW71QvXBSRjuYIF51hn1_IP38=/0x0:1497x841/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:1497x841):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19780273/flattening_the_curve_final.jpg)
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 07:58:47 PM
Okay, is there any evidence that we are worse than SK or is it presumption?
US has a higher death rate and lower recovered rate. Higher death rate means we missed a lot of cases due to lack of testing and lower recovered rate means we're only starting to pick up on new cases now. Aside for that, SK numbers are declining due to better knowledge of where it spread and how to contain it, while US numbers are skyrocketing. Also SK is performing better despite having to deal with a secretive cult that were extremely careless and not cooperative.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
Our numbers are not going up as quickly as theirs did. A successfully flattened curve would still be going up while unflattened curve would already be declining.Blah blah blah. I asked a simple question and you refused to answer because it doesn't support your twisting of the numbers.
Let me ask again in case you forgot. Our numbers are going up at a high rate. Are their numbers going up or down? Hint: It is not up!!! :P
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 08:04:13 PM
US has a higher death rate and lower recovered rate. Higher death rate means we missed a lot of cases due to lack of testing and lower recovered rate means we're only starting to pick up on new cases now. Aside for that, SK numbers are declining due to better knowledge of where it spread and how to contain it, while US numbers are skyrocketing. Also SK is performing better despite having to deal with a secretive cult that were extremely careless and not cooperative.If you take out the nursing home in WA the death rate drops by over 50%.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 08:04:25 PM
US has a higher death rate and lower recovered rate. Higher death rate means we missed a lot of cases due to lack of testing and lower recovered rate means we're only starting to pick up on new cases now. Aside for that, SK numbers are declining due to better knowledge of where it spread and how to contain it, while US numbers are skyrocketing. Also SK is performing better despite having to deal with a secretive cult that were extremely careless and not cooperative.You are starting to wear on me. :)
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 08:05:23 PM
If you take out the nursing home in WA the death rate drops by over 50%.If you take out SK aggressive testing they would have less cases then us. If a frog had a tail ...
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 08:06:29 PM
Blah blah blah. I asked a simple question and you refused to answer because it doesn't support your twisting of the numbers.Yes theirs are going down, but if the US had done the absolute best possible that is what would happen to have US cases going up while places which did not flatten the curve would be already going down..
Let me ask again in case you forgot. Our numbers are going up at a high rate. Are their numbers going up or down? Hint: It is not up!!! :P
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 08:07:16 PM
If you take out SK aggressive testing they would have less cases then us. If a frog had a tail ...When did this aggressive testing start?
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 08:08:04 PM
Yes theirs are going down,Thank you.
...but if the US had done the absolute best possible that is what would happen to have US cases going up while places which did not flatten the curve would be already going down..Not following what you are saying.
When did this aggressive testing start?Not sure.
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 08:10:00 PM
If you take out the nursing home in WA the death rate drops by over 50%.
And if you take out the Shincheonji cult SK would have 5x less cases. But they have it so we count it, just like we count the lack of testing and procedures for letting the virus spread into nursing homes. A quick story a nursing home administrator related to me first hand - they had a patient in the ER, and supposed to return to the SNF. He did some research and found out from the nurses that the patient was in the ER at the same time as a confirmed corona case. They didn't notify my friend, they simply planned on returning him after potential exposure. He noped right out of it.
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 08:14:27 PM
Thank you.Not following what you are saying.Not sure.
A successfully flattened curve would still be going up while unflattened curve would already be declining. I am not saying that this is what is happening and, of course, have no data to back this up. That it will rise to be worse than SK is speculation. Once speculating, let's see the optimistic speculation as well. Note that, even with this optimistic view, it is likely to get much worse before it gets better.Did the testing regime start before or after the number of new cases started to drop at the end of February?
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/yLNW71QvXBSRjuYIF51hn1_IP38=/0x0:1497x841/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:1497x841):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19780273/flattening_the_curve_final.jpg)
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 08:18:24 PM
Did the testing regime start before or after the number of new cases started to drop at the end of February?Don't know.
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
Our numbers are not going up as quickly as theirs did. A successfully flattened curve would still be going up while unflattened curve would already be declining. I am not saying that this is what is happening and, of course, have no data to back this up. That it will rise to be worse than SK is speculation. Once speculating, let's see the optimistic speculation as well. Note that, even with this optimistic view, it is likely to get much worse before it gets better.
Note that for us to be as bad as it was in SK we would need to have about 42,000 cases and close to 600 fatalities.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/yLNW71QvXBSRjuYIF51hn1_IP38=/0x0:1497x841/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:1497x841):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19780273/flattening_the_curve_final.jpg)
Flattening the curve is important if the curve will hit above the dotted line. But the way I see it projected is like the attached.
You can guess which country is which.
Post by: CountValentine on March 15, 2020, 08:24:11 PM
You can guess which country is which.Blue is SK? ;)
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 08:37:37 PM
Flattening the curve is important if the curve will hit above the dotted line. But the way I see it projected is like the attached.I understand that. Just trying to be optimistic.
You can guess which country is which.
Post by: shapsam on March 15, 2020, 08:45:44 PM
- China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital.
— ken caillat (@kencaillat) March 15, 2020
Not enough new cases to support them.
- Indian Doctors successful in treating Corona. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine.
They are going suggest same medicine globally.
Post by: yuneeq on March 15, 2020, 11:17:31 PM
- China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital.
— ken caillat (@kencaillat) March 15, 2020
Not enough new cases to support them.
- Indian Doctors successful in treating Corona. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine.
They are going suggest same medicine globally.
Yeh, India's numbers are very doubtful.
Post by: ad120 on March 16, 2020, 01:51:40 AM
I guess Global Entry won't do anyone good in this case?
Post by: Proisrael on March 16, 2020, 02:06:50 AM
Yeh, India's numbers are very doubtful.
Anyone who doesnt fit your narrative is doubtful....
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 07:33:33 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/two-emergency-room-doctors-are-in-critical-condition-with-coronavirus/ar-BB11ecaw?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 07:54:09 AM
What does it say when we can't even protect those that help us the most?This has been an unfortunate trend all over the world.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/two-emergency-room-doctors-are-in-critical-condition-with-coronavirus/ar-BB11ecaw?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: YitzyS on March 16, 2020, 08:01:59 AM
France's Health Minister telling people suffering from Coronavirus not to take Advil/Motrin (ibuprofen) or cortisone, but rather to take Tylenol (paracetamol).
Does anyone know if this is a widespread opinion, or only a daas yochid? @jj1000
Post by: israshot on March 16, 2020, 08:05:22 AM
https://hamodia.com/2020/03/16/health-officials-warns-use-anti-inflammatory-drugs-tackle-coronavirus/Talking about France, Macron is going to speak at 3pm Est. All signs indicate that they going in lockdown like Italy.
France's Health Minister telling people suffering from Coronavirus not to take Advil/Motrin (ibuprofen) or cortisone, but rather to take Tylenol (paracetamol).
Does anyone know if this is a widespread opinion, or only a daas yochid? @jj1000
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2020, 08:20:19 AM
https://hamodia.com/2020/03/16/health-officials-warns-use-anti-inflammatory-drugs-tackle-coronavirus/I've read this is utter fake news
France's Health Minister telling people suffering from Coronavirus not to take Advil/Motrin (ibuprofen) or cortisone, but rather to take Tylenol (paracetamol).
Does anyone know if this is a widespread opinion, or only a daas yochid? @jj1000
Post by: luckyluck on March 16, 2020, 08:54:59 AM
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
I've read this is utter fake news...but expect Tylenol to fly off the shelves.
Post by: luckyluck on March 16, 2020, 09:53:06 AM
...but expect Tylenol to fly off the shelves.
Not in France. They made it prescription only a few weeks ago
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 09:54:41 AM
Not in France. They made it prescription only a few weeks agoSmart.
Post by: moko on March 16, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
Quote from: Boston Globe
Daycare programs can stay open. We are not ordering the closure of childcare programs at this time, Baker said. The state will prioritize childcare for kids of healthcare workers and first responders who still have to go to work. If anyone at a childcare program had direct or indirect contact with someone who has COVID-19, Baker said, the business should follow guidelines by the Department of Early Education and Care and the Department of Public Health and temporarily close. Residential schools for special needs students and group homes may also stay open.https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/16/metro/what-you-need-know-about-coronavirus-emergency-measures-massachusetts/?outputType=amp
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 10:39:53 AM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/16/metro/what-you-need-know-about-coronavirus-emergency-measures-massachusetts/?outputType=ampMy one daughter works in daycare and I am worried for her.
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 16, 2020, 10:41:07 AM
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 10:51:58 AM
Post by: chevron on March 16, 2020, 10:55:52 AM
Post by: googwallet on March 16, 2020, 11:09:29 AM
I've heard reports that there's a massive outbreak in CH, but no testing available. Is that accurate?As a resident of Crown Heights, I can say it's totally accurate. Hard to put a number to it, but my estimate (based on friends that have symptoms) would be 500+ here alone.
It's not that no testing is available, people are being told (by Hatzolah, Doctors) not to go for testing, even with symptoms.
Even with all the above, many people here are continuing life as usual. Shuls are still open, stores, etc. Seems like people don't take any measures unless forced to do so, and even then...
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 16, 2020, 11:10:15 AM
As a resident of Crown Heights, I can say it's totally accurate. Hard to put a number to it, but my estimate (based on friends that have symptoms) would be 500+ here alone.If 500 people have it and shuls are still open, rabbonim will literally have blood on their hands.
It's not that no testing is available, people are being told (by Hatzolah, Doctors) not to go for testing, even with symptoms.
Even with all the above, many people here are continuing life as usual. Shuls are still open, stores, etc. Seems like people don't take any measures unless forced to do so, and even then...
Post by: googwallet on March 16, 2020, 11:13:41 AM
If 500 people have it and shuls are still open, rabbonim will literally have blood on their hands.Lakewood and BP will be in the same place in a few days if they don't take action now. Actually, it might already be too late.
Post by: zale on March 16, 2020, 11:28:43 AM
If 500 people have it and shuls are still open, rabbonim will literally have blood on their hands.
I drove around on Purim with a bottle of hand sanitizer and made my kids put it on after each shalach manos dropoff. Had I known where things would be now, I would have stayed home Purim.
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 11:38:36 AM
It's not that no testing is available, people are being told (by Hatzolah, Doctors) not to go for testing, even with symptoms.Why? What am I missing?
Are they at least telling them to quarantine themselves?
Post by: TimT on March 16, 2020, 11:49:48 AM
Lakewood and BP will be in the same place in a few days if they don't take action now. Actually, it might already be too late.Asisa offices are testing in BP.
Post by: TimT on March 16, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Are they at least telling them to quarantine themselves?If you feel sick/symptoms, yes.
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 11:52:01 AM
If you feel sick/symptoms, yes.That's a plus.
Post by: zale on March 16, 2020, 11:52:35 AM
Why? What am I missing?
Are they at least telling them to quarantine themselves?
To be clear, they are saying that if you have symptoms, there is no point in going in to the doctor, just quarantine immediately, as the doctor can't prescribe anything anyway. Going to the doctor puts more people at risk, including the doctor.
They did explicitly say that if someone has severe symptoms or if symptoms persist more than 6-7 days to call the doctor.
Post by: good sam on March 16, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
I'm wondering, with all the all medical and rabbinical figures advocating for closure, who are the ones advocating to keep schools open? Who is taking that achrayis?
Post by: TimT on March 16, 2020, 12:09:02 PM
My kids' school is still open. We have not been sending this week but my kids are now at a disadvantage because they are not catering to the kids who are staying home.Do they follow R Chaims instructions ?
I'm wondering, with all the all medical and rabbinical figures advocating for closure, who are the ones advocating to keep schools open? Who is taking that achrayis?
Post by: syp5 on March 16, 2020, 12:15:41 PM
Post by: googwallet on March 16, 2020, 12:47:37 PM
To be clear, they are saying that if you have symptoms, there is no point in going in to the doctor, just quarantine immediately, as the doctor can't prescribe anything anyway. Going to the doctor puts more people at risk, including the doctor.Yes, thank you for clarifying. I missed this part.
They did explicitly say that if someone has severe symptoms or if symptoms persist more than 6-7 days to call the doctor.
Post by: ckmk47 on March 16, 2020, 01:23:25 PM
The self-quarantine is to slow the spread so large numbers of really sick people don't flood the healthcare system at once.
So calm down about your children and school. Be very wary for your parents and grandparents.
Post by: NTorch on March 16, 2020, 01:30:28 PM
This disease mostly affects older, not well people. So children and daycare teachers who are young and healthy are not at great risk of getting very ill or dying. It will seem like a cold or regular flu.
The self-quarantine is to slow the spread so large numbers of really sick people don't flood the healthcare system at once.
So calm down about your children and school. Be very wary for your parents and grandparents.
This was the only thing that DeBlasio said about holding off on school closure that made sense - he was concerned that if he closed the school the kids who may already be infected will be watched by and presumably infect, their grandparents.
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 16, 2020, 02:09:38 PM
This disease mostly affects older, not well people. So children and daycare teachers who are young and healthy are not at great risk of getting very ill or dying. It will seem like a cold or regular flu.-1. Yesterday there were 6 ICU cases in Teaneck. All under 50.
The self-quarantine is to slow the spread so large numbers of really sick people don't flood the healthcare system at once.
So calm down about your children and school. Be very wary for your parents and grandparents.
Post by: yuneeq on March 16, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
Yeh, India's numbers are very doubtful.
Anyone who doesnt fit your narrative is doubtful....
Never mind the filth or lack of hygiene in India.
India is 2nd most populated country, is right next to China, and has a lot of travelers going between the 2.
Knowing all this, India confirmed only 5 cases by March 3rd. You can choose to believe their numbers at face value, but I'm very doubtful.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 16, 2020, 03:03:33 PM
I've heard reports that there's a massive outbreak in CH, but no testing available. Is that accurate?Understatement
Post by: etech0 on March 16, 2020, 03:03:53 PM
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 16, 2020, 03:08:13 PM
Anyone else seeing longer than usual delivery estimates on amazon?yes,it was mentioned here somewhere, my items are taking much longer to be fulfilled as well
Post by: yuneeq on March 16, 2020, 03:20:49 PM
This disease mostly affects older, not well people. So children and daycare teachers who are young and healthy are not at great risk of getting very ill or dying. It will seem like a cold or regular flu.
The self-quarantine is to slow the spread so large numbers of really sick people don't flood the healthcare system at once.
So calm down about your children and school. Be very wary for your parents and grandparents.
All 11 patients at Holy name are under 48
https://www.roi-nj.com/2020/03/14/opinion/life-at-the-epicenter-of-n-j-s-coronavirus-outbreak/
Half of Dutch patients in ICU are under 50 - https://www.ad.nl/dossier-coronavirus/40-a-50-nederlandse-coronapatienten-op-intensive-cares-meer-dan-de-helft-is-onder-de-vijftig~a058aad2/?referrer=https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
yes,it was mentioned here somewhere, my items are taking much longer to be fulfilled as wellAmazon employees are allowed to take off with no questions asked. Then they have the nerve to call mandatory overtime. You can't make this stuff up.
Post by: israshot on March 16, 2020, 03:27:32 PM
Talking about France, Macron is going to speak at 3pm Est. All signs indicate that they going in lockdown like Italy.It's official, France goes on lockdown tomorrow noon like Italy. No rent due for corporations.
Post by: whYME on March 16, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
To be clear, they are saying that if you have symptoms, there is no point in going in to the doctor, just quarantine immediately, as the doctor can't prescribe anything anyway. Going to the doctor puts more people at risk, including the doctor.They're also saying that 80%+ of the community has already been exposed to the virus.
They did explicitly say that if someone has severe symptoms or if symptoms persist more than 6-7 days to call the doctor.
Post by: yuneeq on March 16, 2020, 03:35:10 PM
They're also saying that 80%+ of the community has already been exposed to the virus.
Even if the number is real - it's exposed, not infected
Post by: avromie7 on March 16, 2020, 03:35:52 PM
It's official, France goes on lockdown tomorrow noon like Italy. No rent due for corporations.My friend who lives in France has been posting videos of military vehicles being transported.
Post by: israshot on March 16, 2020, 03:42:11 PM
My friend who lives in France has been posting videos of military vehicles being transported.Yes, saw the pictures. Probably to help out with the situation, not like China.
Post by: stooges44 on March 16, 2020, 04:22:57 PM
Anyone else seeing longer than usual delivery estimates on amazon?
https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2020-03-16/amazon-seeks-to-hire-100-000-to-keep-up-with-surge-in-orders
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 04:25:03 PM
https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2020-03-16/amazon-seeks-to-hire-100-000-to-keep-up-with-surge-in-ordersMass amounts are not showing up for work.
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 05:27:30 PM
Post by: flatbush guy on March 16, 2020, 05:29:06 PM
Post by: how on March 16, 2020, 05:29:28 PM
Here is a question: how many people have died from this illness worldwide? Its been around for a little bit already. Are there any concrete numbers.7115
Post by: flatbush guy on March 16, 2020, 05:30:43 PM
https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2020-03-16/amazon-seeks-to-hire-100-000-to-keep-up-with-surge-in-orders
Cant believe amazon would hire people when a nationwide lockdown could happen. unless they fell that deliveries will be excluded
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 05:33:09 PM
Post by: avromie7 on March 16, 2020, 05:34:08 PM
I cant believeAmazon is the best thing, people can get everything they need without coming in contact with anyone.https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2020-03-16/amazon-seeks-to-hire-100-000-to-keep-up-with-surge-in-orders
Cant believe amazon would hire people when a nationwide lockdown could happen. unless they fell that deliveries will be excluded
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 05:52:47 PM
Hashem should be protect us and we should do some hishtadlus. At the same time, is it really worth destroying entire economies, shutting down Yeshivas and all sense or normal life. What will happen when we are still sitting with all of our kids around and no jobs and Money for anyone. It could come to rioting in the streets cvs , a run on banks or worse cvs. I am of the opinion to open everything up to normal.
I know its not popular what I am saying, but we are doing worse to our lives what this illness can ever do
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 16, 2020, 06:01:59 PM
How many people usually die in a single day around the world? Much much more than that.
Hashem should be protect us and we should do some hishtadlus. At the same time, is it really worth destroying entire economies, shutting down Yeshivas and all sense or normal life. What will happen when we are still sitting with all of our kids around and no jobs and Money for anyone. It could come to rioting in the streets cvs , a run on banks or worse cvs. I am of the opinion to open everything up to normal.
I know its not popular what I am saying, but we are doing worse to our lives what this illness can ever do
What histadlus do you recommend? I think closing places where people congregate is an appropriate amount of histadlus.
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:16:17 PM
Post by: mercaz1 on March 16, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
are you smarter then the drs who recommended this
are you smarter than the Daas Torah who agreed with the doctors
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:23:50 PM
Doctors are generally very cautionary, which is a good thing. But it must be weighed with the repercussions.
Post by: TimT on March 16, 2020, 06:27:02 PM
How many people usually die in a single day around the world? Much much more than that.Perhaps its doing worse to your & my life than this illness could ever do, but what about the elderly & ill ? Would you change your mind after X amount of deaths or you stick with it no matter what ?
Hashem should be protect us and we should do some hishtadlus. At the same time, is it really worth destroying entire economies, shutting down Yeshivas and all sense or normal life. What will happen when we are still sitting with all of our kids around and no jobs and Money for anyone. It could come to rioting in the streets cvs , a run on banks or worse cvs. I am of the opinion to open everything up to normal.
I know its not popular what I am saying, but we are doing worse to our lives what this illness can ever do
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
Perhaps its doing worse to your & my life than this illness could ever do, but what about the elderly & ill ? Would you change your mind after X amount of deaths or you stick with it no matter what ?And my question to you is how many deaths from the flu season has to occur to take the same cautionary steps they are taking now.
The answer is at this point it is not a magaifa it is a illness. If it switches cvs. everything changes.
And btw I agree elderly should stay away from people.
Post by: yuneeq on March 16, 2020, 06:35:37 PM
How many people usually die in a single day around the world? Much much more than that.
Hashem should be protect us and we should do some hishtadlus. At the same time, is it really worth destroying entire economies, shutting down Yeshivas and all sense or normal life. What will happen when we are still sitting with all of our kids around and no jobs and Money for anyone. It could come to rioting in the streets cvs , a run on banks or worse cvs. I am of the opinion to open everything up to normal.
I know its not popular what I am saying, but we are doing worse to our lives what this illness can ever do
Good morning. In 1917 more people died from slipping in the bathtub than from the Spanish Flu.
It's all a hoax!
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:41:05 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
I dont know anything about 1917Then educate yourself before spewing non-sense.
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 06:45:42 PM
And my question to you is how many deaths from the flu season has to occur to take the same cautionary steps they are taking now.By the time it switches it will be too late. Definitely by the time even ignorant people admit that it switches.
The answer is at this point it is not a magaifa it is a illness. If it switches cvs. everything changes.
And btw I agree elderly should stay away from people.
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
Yup. Actually getting this from daas torah. And btw All the Gedolim said to keep Yeshivas minyanin openשקר וכזב
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:47:43 PM
Why are you still here. So you can start new threads bashing trump. We all know this thing and everything else you do and say is just to go against him. Go hijack some other chat somewhere
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:48:23 PM
By the time it switches it will be too late. Definitely by the time even ignorant people admit that it switches.It has been around for a few months already. Iyh not switching
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:49:10 PM
שקר וכזבR chaim Kanievsky shlita did it did not say to keep Yeshivas open?!??!
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 06:51:01 PM
R chaim Kanievsky shlita did it did not say to keep Yeshivas open?!??!At one point.
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
It has been around for a few months already. Iyh not switchingIt has been in NY area for a while? Source?
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:55:08 PM
March 15
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:57:35 PM
It has been in NY area for a while? Source?Its been in the world for a while, and I cant say this enough that even one death is too much hashem yishmor, 7000 deaths however over this much time is not a epidemic or a mageifa
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 06:58:11 PM
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2020, 07:00:18 PM
Its been in the world for a while, and I cant say this enough that even one death is too much hashem yishmor, 7000 deaths however over this much time is not a epidemic or a mageifaYou realize that has doubled over the past week, yes?
Now do the math over the next few weeks, H"Y.
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 07:01:01 PM
Post by: yuneeq on March 16, 2020, 07:01:49 PM
Its been in the world for a while, and I cant say this enough that even one death is too much hashem yishmor, 7000 deaths however over this much time is not a epidemic or a mageifa
If a virus doubles every 5 days, how long will it take to spread to the entire world?
How long will it take to spread to half the world?
1. 165 days
2. 160 days
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 07:01:53 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1839949/showdown-despite-police-visit-to-harav-chaim-kanievsky-the-rav-says-that-yeshivas-chadarim-cannot-be-closed.html (https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1839949/showdown-despite-police-visit-to-harav-chaim-kanievsky-the-rav-says-that-yeshivas-chadarim-cannot-be-closed.html)Do you mean this letter where he says to split into groups of 10?
March 15
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1840119/new-corona-health-letter-from-rav-chaim-kanievsky-and-rav-gershon-edelstein.html
(https://cdn.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/IMG-20200315-WA0046-1.jpg)
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 07:03:32 PM
Its been in the world for a while, and I cant say this enough that even one death is too much hashem yishmor, 7000 deaths however over this much time is not a epidemic or a mageifa1. Yes it took time to reach here, but now it has.
2. How many deaths does the mishna call a magaifa?
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
Do you mean this letter where he says to split into groups of 10?It does not say anywhere split into ten, it says keep some distance and stay home if sick. Which like I said keep minimum hishtadlus.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1840119/new-corona-health-letter-from-rav-chaim-kanievsky-and-rav-gershon-edelstein.html
(https://cdn.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/IMG-20200315-WA0046-1.jpg)
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 07:11:54 PM
It does not say anywhere split into ten, it says keep some distance and stay home if sick. Which like I said keep minimum hishtadlus.ahh because he doesn't say amounts and distances? ::) Besides, he is not the only gadol and is not discussing the US at all.
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
You realize that has doubled over the past week, yes?Yes, it has now spread almost across the almost whole world and the deaths are much less than flu like disease. Definitely Dont want this at all.
Now do the math over the next few weeks, H"Y.
But What does that have to do with the riots that will be taking place soon or the millions of families that cant afford to buy groceries next month. Cvs
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 07:15:58 PM
Yes, it has now spread almost across the almost whole world and the deaths are much less than flu like disease. Definitely Dont want this at all.
But What does that have to do with the riots that will be taking place soon or the millions of families that cant afford to buy groceries next month. Cvs
Lets just say that you have no clue what you are talking about and by being bust spouting this ignorance you are very likely to kill people. RODEF!!!!!!
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
ahh because he doesn't say amounts and distances? ::) Besides, he is not the only gadol and is not discussing the US at all.Wow, conversation is now over with you.
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 07:30:06 PM
Wow, conversation is now over with you.Well okay then. Why don't you ask him if we should listen to the local rabbonim or not.
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 07:31:20 PM
Wow, conversation is now over with you.
Well okay then.That was quick. I usually last longer than that. :)
Post by: moko on March 16, 2020, 07:33:58 PM
Any solutions?
I'm working with our federation but that's still at least a week out and probably longer.
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 16, 2020, 07:44:41 PM
Still the elephant in the room. There are hundreds of families that I know and probably millions that won't have money to buy food within a few days.There should be government help with this. And employers that can afford to pay its workers should do so.
Any solutions?
I'm working with our federation but that's still at least a week out and probably longer.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 16, 2020, 07:52:42 PM
It has been around for a few months already. Iyh not switchingDude. Last week there wasn't a single case in Crown Heights. Now it's אין בית אשר אין שם.
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 07:54:52 PM
Still the elephant in the room. There are hundreds of families that I know and probably millions that won't have money to buy food within a few days.Help out where you can.
Any solutions?
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 08:24:03 PM
Dude. Last week there wasn't a single case in Crown Heights. Now it's אין בית אשר אין שם.Hashem yishmor!! A Refuah sheleima to every yid bkarov mamesh.
Please dont take any offense but I am asking because this is a very serious situation that needs serious thought . Have there been any deaths, lo aleinu?
Post by: ExGingi on March 16, 2020, 08:27:32 PM
Dude. Last week there wasn't a single case in Crown Heights. Now it's אין בית אשר אין שם.
Unfortunately, was foreseen.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 16, 2020, 08:36:40 PM
Hashem yishmor!! A Refuah sheleima to every yid bkarov mamesh.
Please dont take any offense but I am asking because this is a very serious situation that needs serious thought . Have there been any deaths, lo aleinu?
No. A few people in critical condition. We're talking a matter of days.
Your cavalier "any deaths" when I have grandparents living in fear surrounded by hundreds of infected patients is sickening.
People who got engaged a week ago are being advised to get married with just a minyan within weeks due to the uncertain future.
Hospitals are already full in NYC.
Please, I beg you, listen to the experts who have been tracking this for months. Stay. Home. And stop spewing trash that could endanger lives were anyone to listen.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 16, 2020, 08:38:23 PM
Unfortunately, was foreseen.Yup. Was called hysterical, a fear monger and more because I exoressed shock that no guidelines were made for Purim.
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 08:42:38 PM
What the hell is wrong with people? This guy was not feeling well and went Motzei Shabbos to get tested. Why go to a wedding and kis and hug others? (yes, I watched him doing that)
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Post by: Yef on March 16, 2020, 08:43:58 PM
No. A few people in critical condition. We're talking a matter of days.
Your cavalier "any deaths" when I have grandparents living in fear surrounded by hundreds of infected patients is sickening.
People who got engaged a week ago are being advised to get married with just a minyan within weeks due to the uncertain future.
Hospitals are already full in NYC.
Please, I beg you, listen to the experts who have been tracking this for months. Stay. Home. And stop spewing trash that could endanger lives were anyone to listen.
Older people should quarantine themselves. Agreed.
Experts deal with the disease itself, not all the ramifications that come with it.
Put the economy back and Yeshivas and life back!
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 08:44:39 PM
Older people should quarantine themselves. Agreed.
Experts deal with the disease itself, not all the ramifications that come with it.
Put the economy back and Yeshivas and life back!
RODEF!!!!!!!
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 08:52:35 PM
And he wanted to be POTUS....
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 16, 2020, 08:54:14 PM
While I am being urged to stay home as much as possible de Blasio still wants me to move my car tomorrow for ASP so he can fill up his fat pockets at a time of emergency. :o :o :oInexcusable that ASP isn't suspended when people are being told not to leave the house.
And he wanted to be POTUS....
Post by: sillypainter on March 16, 2020, 08:54:17 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 16, 2020, 09:01:20 PM
Yup. Was called hysterical, a fear monger and more because I exoressed shock that no guidelines were made for Purim.Unfortunately, I am still called like that.
Today I just couldn't hold myself any longer, and started discarding almost anything that is likely touched by more than one person at 770's coffee station (after imploring several times with people that run the place to shut it down).
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2020, 09:04:08 PM
People still don't get it. I was just told that at the wedding which I attended yesterday there was a guy who tested positive today.Were they not told to self-quarantine until they got the results? Should have been.
What the hell is wrong with people? This guy was not feeling well and went Motzei Shabbos to get tested. Why go to a wedding and kis and hug others? (yes, I watched him doing that)
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Post by: ttn on March 16, 2020, 09:23:43 PM
People still don't get it. I was just told that at the wedding which I attended yesterday there was a guy who tested positive today.Where was this?
What the hell is wrong with people? This guy was not feeling well and went Motzei Shabbos to get tested. Why go to a wedding and kis and hug others? (yes, I watched him doing that)
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Post by: israshot on March 16, 2020, 09:31:41 PM
While I am being urged to stay home as much as possible de Blasio still wants me to move my car tomorrow for ASP so he can fill up his fat pockets at a time of emergency. :o :o :oSuspend Alternate Side Parking in NYC due to Coronavirus Epidemic. Do you agree?
And he wanted to be POTUS....
http://chng.it/hxWrTf6c
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 16, 2020, 09:32:24 PM
Were they not told to self-quarantine until they got the results? Should have been.In all likelihood, they were. A local doctor was kicking supposed quarantined people out of weddings last week.
Post by: aygart on March 16, 2020, 09:35:24 PM
The head of the civil protection authority, Angelo Borelli, said that Lombardy had been able to transfer 40 patients to other regions and said he was so far unaware of any cases of patients dying because of a lack of intensive care facilities.
But the health systems in Lombardy and in other regions such as Emilia Romagna and Veneto at the epicenter of the Italian outbreak have been pushed to their limits.
The numbers have continued to grow. Were close to the moment where we will have no more intensive care beds, Lombardy governor Attilio Fontana told SkyTG24 television.
Post by: yuneeq on March 16, 2020, 10:18:34 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy/italys-coronavirus-toll-surges-as-worries-grow-over-hospitals-idUSKBN2120XN
The head of the civil protection authority, Angelo Borelli, said that Lombardy had been able to transfer 40 patients to other regions and said he was so far unaware of any cases of patients dying because of a lack of intensive care facilities.
But the health systems in Lombardy and in other regions such as Emilia Romagna and Veneto at the epicenter of the Italian outbreak have been pushed to their limits.
The numbers have continued to grow. Were close to the moment where we will have no more intensive care beds, Lombardy governor Attilio Fontana told SkyTG24 television.
According to this, Italy's scary numbers can get much worse. Crazy.
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 10:25:15 PM
Were they not told to self-quarantine until they got the results? Should have been.Of course he was hence my post.
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 10:25:42 PM
Where was this?Continental hall in Williamsburg.
Post by: ExGingi on March 16, 2020, 10:26:20 PM
Suspend Alternate Side Parking in NYC due to Coronavirus Epidemic. Do you agree?
http://chng.it/hxWrTf6c
Definitely should be done.
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2020, 10:27:40 PM
Of course he was hence my post.Sick.
Post by: ilherman on March 16, 2020, 10:32:16 PM
Post by: moko on March 16, 2020, 10:46:35 PM
Help out where you can.I personally have 15 employees out of work. The remaining including me are taking large paycuts. I've spent the last several hours setting up an emergency pesach relief effort with the help and kindness of an anonymous donor.
But this will only get worse. It's pretty scary what I'm seeing by our clients as well.
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 16, 2020, 10:46:51 PM
Continental hall in Williamsburg.Frieds wedding ?
Post by: CountValentine on March 16, 2020, 10:48:32 PM
Post by: flatbush guy on March 16, 2020, 10:49:33 PM
Dude. Last week there wasn't a single case in Crown Heights. Now it's אין בית אשר אין שם.
is it that bad?
Hope not. Does the fact that many people come and go from overseas have anything to do with it?
Post by: israshot on March 16, 2020, 11:07:09 PM
Definitely should be done.Why we are working the other way around?
Post by: flatbush guy on March 16, 2020, 11:40:15 PM
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 16, 2020, 11:44:16 PM
Post by: chevron on March 16, 2020, 11:49:01 PM
This has been a humbling experience, Parenti said. But the cool thing about mistakes is that you can learn from other peoplesso learn from ours and dont underestimate this.
By Sunday, 24,747 cases had been diagnosed in Italy, up from 21,157 on Saturdaya record-breaking single-day increase. The country also reported 368 new fatalities, bringing the death toll to 1,809 nationwide.
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2020, 12:03:05 AM
Yes. It is that badThat means the Gaboim of 770 shouldn't be coming to 770. Now they have a justification for being MIA.
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 17, 2020, 12:08:48 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 12:34:01 AM
Short sleeves and no eye protection. One cough and goodnight.
Lack of PPE is not an excuse at all. Full hazmat suits are readily available and so are goggles and long sleeved shirts.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:35:11 AM
This is how they are performing tests in the US.problem is, they need to change between every suspected patient. and thats very very difficult.
Short sleeves and no eye protection. One cough and goodnight.
Lack of PPE is not an excuse at all. Full hazmat suits are readily available and so are goggles and long sleeved shirts.
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 12:36:16 AM
This is how they are performing tests in the US.Maybe in NYC.
Short sleeves and no eye protection. One cough and goodnight.
Lack of PPE is not an excuse at all. Full hazmat suits are readily available and so are goggles and long sleeved shirts.
Not like that in CLE.
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 12:37:47 AM
This is how they are performing tests in the US.
Short sleeves and no eye protection. One cough and goodnight.
Lack of PPE is not an excuse at all. Full hazmat suits are readily available and so are goggles and long sleeved shirts.
Image isnt loading properly for me, but you can check Arielle charnas Instagram story.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:37:58 AM
Maybe in NYC.It's prob over in NYC already.
Not like that in CLE.
I heard form a Dr just a while ago, he had 70 positives since he started testing Sunday.
And yet, schools ares till open, and weddings were in full swing tonight.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:38:51 AM
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 12:38:55 AM
It's prob over in NYC already.https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=21675
I heard form a Dr just a while ago, he had 70 positives since he started testing Sunday.
And yet, schools ares till open, and weddings were in full swing tonight.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:39:27 AM
Any updates on Crown Heights?a dr in the frum community?
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:40:04 AM
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=21675Absolutely!
Everybody here is born the smartest, unfortunately.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:40:17 AM
a dr in the frum community?Asisa.
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 12:40:22 AM
problem is, they need to change between every suspected patient. and thats very very difficult.
You think it helps that she changes her short sleeve t shirt between patients?
Id be surprised if they didnt wipe off the swab and reuse it.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:41:01 AM
It's prob over in NYC already.a dr in the frum community?
I heard form a Dr just a while ago, he had 70 positives since he started testing Sunday.
And yet, schools ares till open, and weddings were in full swing tonight.
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 12:41:46 AM
Maybe in NYC.
Not like that in CLE.
I saw WA like NYC as well. I wouldnt be shocked if it was widespread.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:42:05 AM
Asisa.wow
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:42:30 AM
a dr in the frum community?Asisa. And I personally know loads of people confirmed, and then relatives with fever....
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:44:20 AM
People really live in denial.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:45:32 AM
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 12:45:45 AM
I saw WA like NYC as well. I wouldnt be shocked if it was widespread.CLE Clinic drive through testing:
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:46:38 AM
CLE Clinic drive through testing:do they completely change between tests?
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:47:15 AM
If its true that there was a positive in Bobov by the purim festivities, many people need to be tested asap
Post by: chevron on March 17, 2020, 12:48:01 AM
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:49:20 AM
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 12:49:35 AM
do they completely change between tests?
Where did you see that they need to change everything? In China they barely ever changed. Spray disinfectant and on to the next one. Replace gloves for extra precaution.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:50:02 AM
So you go to get tested and if you don't have it you're going to get it anywaystesting only helps to not qaurentine the suspected. those with symptoms should stay home.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:51:05 AM
Where did you see that they need to change everything? In China they barely ever changed. Spray disinfectant and on to the next one. Replace gloves for extra precaution.I think Dr Fauci mentioned this, the test isn't comforting, and ppl tend to sneeze and cough.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:52:10 AM
Trump should have and still can send the Army out to organize mass ,safe testing.They have the manpowerrumors, that the Brooklyn Armary being turned into a Hospital.
Post by: EliJelly on March 17, 2020, 12:52:49 AM
rumors, that the Brooklyn Armary being turned into a Hospital.Which one? Multiple in Brooklyn.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 AM
Which one? Multiple in Brooklyn.I can't confirm on an unconfrimed rumor.
Post by: how on March 17, 2020, 12:53:56 AM
CLE Clinic drive through testing:That makes me want to cry
Unbelievalbe whats going on in NYC
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:54:21 AM
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 12:55:29 AM
If the stock market continues to plunge, Trump will be forced to take real action or be a one term president.He has failed miserably to do anything timely hereReal action, as in?
Post by: how on March 17, 2020, 12:55:57 AM
If the stock market continues to plunge, Trump will be forced to take real action or be a one term president.He has failed miserably to do anything timely hereHe should suspend trading in the markets by Wednesday
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 12:58:12 AM
He made nothing of it, though it has been months in the making.He woke up when the stock market went shlufen
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 01:03:00 AM
trillions of dollars were lost in the market since this started.Trump started his "work" on corona with a measly 8 billion, before waking up a bit.the cost of this pandemic in money is trillions.Thats without addressing sakonos nefoshos that has no price tag
Post by: mmgfarb on March 17, 2020, 01:08:38 AM
I've read this is utter fake newsBit more complicated than that, watch this for a really good breakdown of what the debate is about
Post by: Proisrael on March 17, 2020, 02:55:05 AM
"techs big five lost over $320 billion of value in Mondays market crash; Apple plunged 7.9%"
This is panic selling and a great opportunity for people to get back into the market. Apple would have fell (not that much) regardless due tot he judgement against them. Closing the market will only restrict peoples access to cash and is a terrible idea.
Post by: Proisrael on March 17, 2020, 07:12:05 AM
Post by: Luvisrael on March 17, 2020, 07:25:53 AM
Still the elephant in the room. There are hundreds of families that I know and probably millions that won't have money to buy food within a few days.Any one who knows families in our community going through hardships holy schnitzel will be making Shabbat meals for this week free of charge please call 646-208-5450
Any solutions?
I'm working with our federation but that's still at least a week out and probably longer.
You can repost in other groups to get the word out
Post by: ttn on March 17, 2020, 07:29:13 AM
Any one who knows families in our community going through hardships holy schnitzel will be making Shabbat meals for this week free of charge please call 646-208-5450.
You can repost in other groups to get the word out
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on March 17, 2020, 07:49:57 AM
Is it true Lakewood schools are all open???
Yes. Todays the last day.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 07:53:48 AM
This is panic selling and a great opportunity for people to get back into the market. Apple would have fell (not that much) regardless due tot he judgement against them. Closing the market will only restrict peoples access to cash and is a terrible idea.I respectfully ask you stop posting this garbage. You are 100% delusional with all your post. Do you have any idea how the market works? Do you have an idea what earning reports will look like? PLEASE STOP!!!
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2020, 08:40:08 AM
I respectfully ask you stop posting this garbage. You are 100% delusional with all your post. Do you have any idea how the market works? Do you have an idea what earning reports will look like? PLEASE STOP!!!
Your post is obvious panic! You really think anyone is taking cues and markets will close due to a DDMS post?
Post by: Proisrael on March 17, 2020, 08:40:48 AM
I respectfully ask you stop posting this garbage. You are 100% delusional with all your post. Do you have any idea how the market works? Do you have an idea what earning reports will look like? PLEASE STOP!!!
Stop your fear mongering. Stop your lies about China and Hong Kong and other Asian countries that have gone back to 80-90% of normal. All Apple stores are open in China. Shoppers are back to the stores and factories are up and running. The US will get there in about 1-2 months time and things will move on. Yes it will cost the country a lot but we have been through worse.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 08:59:26 AM
You really think anyone is taking cues and markets will close due to a DDMS post?Who said that? I said he is delusional and doesn't understand how markets work.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
Stop your fear mongering. Stop your lies about China and Hong Kong and other Asian countries that have gone back to 80-90% of normal. All Apple stores are open in China. Shoppers are back to the stores and factories are up and running. The US will get there in about 1-2 months time and things will move on. Yes it will cost the country a lot but we have been through worse.Lies? Where did I say anything about China or Hong Kong?
All your info comes from one source. See my signature.
Post by: Proisrael on March 17, 2020, 09:04:48 AM
Lies? Where did I say anything about China or Hong Kong?
All your info comes from one source. See my signature.
I am sorry what has Trump said about China?!?!?
I am quoting APPLE themselves Starbucks Disney who have said they reopened every thing. Are you denying that things have gotten better there?
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2020, 09:06:56 AM
Who said that? I said he is delusional and doesn't understand how markets work.Would that be the first delusional or clueless post on DDF? Since when do we ask people to stop posting their respectful opinions on DDF?
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 09:07:10 AM
I am quoting APPLE themselves Starbucks Disney who have said they reopened every thing. Are you denying that things have gotten better there?Better where? You think I give a rats *ss about China?
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 09:10:13 AM
Would that be the first delusional or clueless post on DDF? Since when do we ask people to stop posting their respectful opinions on DDF?You need to at least try different approaches with delusional individuals. :P
Post by: Proisrael on March 17, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
Better where? You think I give a rats *ss about China?
Considering China and South Korea are the first to have gotten infected and the fact that they are now coming out from the worst after 2 months shows us that the end is not near and that shutting the stock market is a brainless move.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 09:17:14 AM
Considering China and South Korea are the first to have gotten infected and the fact that they are now coming out from the worst after 2 months shows us that the end is not near and that shutting the stock market is a brainless move.Who said shut down the stock market? ::)
I said you don't understand the market if you think this drop is a panic move. Just as your fearless leader thought the Fed cut that he praised was going to help the market. The rate cut was a panic move and now they have nothing left.
Post by: Ergel on March 17, 2020, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus? - The New York Times
Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?
With social distancing now widely adopted nationwide, a small group of contrarians urge a more careful weighing of the harm as well as the benefits of such policies.
As an America desperate to stem the coronavirus outbreak put in place sweeping restrictions last week on every facet of public life, the University of Wyoming economist Linda Thunstrom asked what felt like a taboo question: Are we overreacting?
It helped that Dr. Thunstrom was in her kitchen, drinking coffee with her husband, Jason Shogren, a fellow economist who studies how much Americans are willing to pay to reduce risk of threats like terrorism, food-borne illness and climate change.
Calculating the economic costs of curtailing social interaction compared with the lives saved, he agreed, might yield a useful metric for policymakers. The U.S. government routinely performs such analyses when assessing new regulations, with the statistical value of life currently pegged by one government agency at about $9 million.
Still, Dr. Thunstrum asked, Do we even want to look at that? Is it too callous?
No one wants to be seen as prioritizing profit or, say, youth soccer over saving lives. But in recent days, a group of contrarian political leaders, ethicists and ordinary Americans have bridled at what they saw as a tendency to dismiss the complex trade-offs that the measures collectively known as social distancing entail.
Besides the financial ramifications of such policies, their concerns touch on how societys most marginalized groups may fare and on the effect of government-enforced curfews on democratic ideals. Their questions about the current approach are distinct from those raised by some conservative activists who have suggested the virus is a politically inspired hoax, or no worse than the flu,
Even in the face of a mounting coronavirus death toll, and the widespread adoption of the social distancing approach, these critics say it is important to acknowledge all the consequences of decisions intended to mitigate the viruss spread.
Some college students who were abruptly ushered off campus last week complain that they are more likely to infect higher-risk older adults at home than they were at college. Among the throngs who have been ordered to self-quarantine, some people question the purpose of isolating themselves if the virus is already circulating widely in their communities. Certain parents balk at the pressure from friends to withdraw their children from schools that are still open, or at what they see as group-think that has prompted the cancellation of events that are still weeks or months away.
And how do you weigh the risk of an unknown number of deaths against the possibility that several hundred thousand students who depend on free lunch at school will go hungry? Or against other lives that may be lost in an economic contraction born of social isolation?
We have to give due seriousness to this disease breaking out across the globe, said Nicholas Evans, a philosophy professor at the University of Massachusetts Lowell who has criticized Harvard University for failing to put a comprehensive plan in place for financially disadvantaged students before announcing a move to online classes. At the same time, we have to think about equity and the way the risks and benefits of measures we take are distributed.
Until he reversed course on Sunday under mounting pressure, Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City had suggested that there was a lack of evidence that closing the nations largest school district would significantly slow the viruss spread.
What such a closure would do, he said before reversing himself, would be to force parents to stay home, including those who work in the hospitals that are expected to fill with coronavirus patients. While school districts in Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, D.C., and elsewhere have shuttered, we dont model off anyone else, the mayor said.
Of course, policies are changing by the day. Malcolm Campbell, a Davidson College biology professor, outfitted his undergraduates early last week in rubber gloves to discourage face-touching. Still teaching labs and keeping students safe," he tweeted.
But he was bidding those same students goodbye on Friday when Davidson, a liberal arts college in North Carolina, sent students home for an extended spring break.
To some extent, Dr. Campbell said, he understood the schools choice as rational. About 45 million Americans have been infected by the flu this season, which typically peaks in February, and about 40,000 have died. For the coronavirus, health officials predict between two and six times as many infections, and between four and 40 times as many deaths, in the absence of social distancing or as-yet-nonexistent pharmaceutical interventions.
But Dr. Campbell said he had argued for Davidson to remain open, based on the relatively low risk the virus poses to college-age students, and the virtue of classes like his, which cannot be taught online.
It was hard to escape the conclusion that Davidson, like others, was influenced by social pressure, he said: Its like, if you dont close, then youre a heartless, cruel organization.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, given the recent plunge in value to their stock portfolios, some Silicon Valley figures have taken to social media to underscore the economic impact of social distancing.
The fear is far worse than the virus, tweeted Tim Draper, a venture capitalist, using the hashtags #corona #dustbowl, #food, #clothing and #shelter. The governments have it wrong. Stay open for business.
But Americas hashtag has become something akin to #hunkerdownathome, with a series of closings, suspensions, postponements by businesses and cultural institutions.
Disneyland closed. The Metropolitan Opera closed. Shuttered as well are research universities and day care centers, Broadway theaters, Apple stores, local libraries, ski resorts, March Madness and professional basketball, hockey, and baseball.
On Saturday, the mayor of Hoboken, N.J., banned restaurants and bars from providing food, and established a curfew requiring people to be in their homes between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. The next day the governor of Puerto Rico went even further, ordering nearly all businesses to close and imposing a 9 p.m. curfew.
Organizers of professional conferences, political fund-raisers, book talks and shivas have sometimes been chastised in recent days for daring to even consider not canceling their events.
The scientists organizing a Genetics Society of America meeting scheduled for April 22 near Washington, D.C., tried to put off a decision on canceling the gathering until later this month. But the conference joined the list of shuttered professional meetings late last week after some members complained that the delay was creating bad optics for the group.
People had this feeling, like, Just do something, said Denise Montell, a geneticist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and the societys president, because somebody needs to do something about this virus.
Of course, there is plenty of scientific backing for the benefits of social distancing in delaying transmission of the virus.
Chinas quarantine measures, a recent paper concludes, helped it cut infections to a fewer than two dozen a day from over 3,500 a day in late January. Restrictions on gatherings in western Washington State have been guided by a model suggesting that such measures could save 400 lives in the region by April 7.
Images that illustrate how slowing the transmission rate could avert a surge in cases that would overwhelm the health system as they did in Italy have circulated widely for several weeks under variations of the hashtag #FlattenTheCurve.
Cancel everything," concluded one political scientist, writing in The Atlantic. Now.
Amid the concerns out there that society may be overreacting are a chorus of calls for even bolder action.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told NBCs Meet the Press Sunday that he favors a 14-day national shutdown to slow down coronavirus. I think we should really be overly aggressive and get criticized for overreacting, Dr. Fauci said.
But even the many experts who agree on social distancing as an effective remedy worry about some of the fallout. There are civil liberties concerns surrounding quarantines. There is economic hardship for hourly wage workers. Few have thought through how sick people staying in their homes would be cared for.
We need to give the response to the virus our full attention, said Jennifer Nuzzo, an associate professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. But were following every rabbit that pops out of its hole, as opposed to trying to prioritize responses that have the most impact.
It may prove impossible to know whether the policies the country adopts were just enough, or more than necessary, to quell the spread of the virus.
That thought has occurred frequently to Rick Wright, an insurance broker in Redwood City who tested positive for the virus after being evacuated from the Diamond Princess cruise ship to a military base in California last month.
He has never felt sick. But because his nose and throat swabs have continued to show evidence of the virus, he has remained in self-quarantine, alone at home, for 19 days after an eight-day stint alone in a San Francisco hospital. He and his wife, who has moved out and is staying with her sister, wave to each other through the window when she drops off food.
Is it overkill? he frequently asks himself.
He is not certain. But if he werent quarantined, he acknowledged that he might drop in on his elderly parents, who are at higher risk of suffering the effects of the coronavirus.
We could look back at this time in four months and say, We did the right thing or we could say That was silly, he said in an interview.
Then he added one more likely scenario: Or we might never know.
Post by: Ergel on March 17, 2020, 09:42:01 AM
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 09:43:08 AM
Who said shut down the stock market? ::)It is not a panic move, but there is definitely panic involved. How many of the sellers are sitting on 1000 rolls of toilet paper? If they are panicking for other things they are panicking regarding stocks too. Does that mean it will go back to previous highs overnight? Of course not. There are definitely fundamental issues that were instigated by the virus. That does not mean that every point the market drops is from cold calculations. The biggest opportunities have historically come from markets going too far over real concerns.
I said you don't understand the market if you think this drop is a panic move. Just as your fearless leader thought the Fed cut that he praised was going to help the market. The rate cut was a panic move and now they have nothing left.
The Fed cut was definitely a panic move and was viewed by the markets as such. That is part of why the markets shot down from it. Does that mean it wasn't panic or does that mean that the Fed panicking caused everyone else to panic as well? It is too early to tell.
Post by: YitzyS on March 17, 2020, 09:50:12 AM
bcc @CountValentine :P
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 09:52:18 AM
It is not a panic move, but there is definitely panic involved. How many of the sellers are sitting on 1000 rolls of toilet paper? If they are panicking for other things they are panicking regarding stocks too. Does that mean it will go back to previous highs overnight? Of course not. There are definitely fundamental issues that were instigated by the virus. That does not mean that every point the market drops is from cold calculations. The biggest opportunities have historically come from markets going too far over real concerns.I am trying to remember a worse economic time in recent history. Does one come to mind for you?
The Fed cut was definitely a panic move and was viewed by the markets as such. That is part of why the markets shot down from it. Does that mean it wasn't panic or does that mean that the Fed panicking caused everyone else to panic as well? It is too early to tell.
I am actually surprised the market isn't down even more.
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 09:54:15 AM
I am trying to remember a worse economic time in recent history. Does one come to mind for you?The big question is what will happen the day after. Will all the pent up activity burst out or will there be severe lingering effects and what will they be? There are extreme risks, but they are far from certain. One thing which can prolong any recovery is any sort of handcuffs placed on the economy by socialists.
I am actually surprised the market isn't down even more.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 09:57:02 AM
The big question is what will happen the day after. Will all the pent up activity burst out or will there be severe lingering effects and what will they be? There are extreme risks, but they are far from certain.What is this pent up stuff? I heard a certain person keep on saying that. Personal spending drives the economy. I don't care how much pent up BS is there you still need money in the pockets of the average Americans to drive the economy.
Post by: Ergel on March 17, 2020, 10:07:56 AM
https://newcriterion.com/blogs/dispatch/compared-to-what@yuneeq curious to hear your response to these articles. We can't ignore the fact that millions of people who live paycheck to paycheck aren't going to get their next paycheck. I don't know what the right answer is
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 10:17:46 AM
What is this pent up stuff? I heard a certain person keep on saying that. Personal spending drives the economy. I don't care how much pent up BS is there you still need money in the pockets of the average Americans to drive the economy.Are you interested in having conversations or just in name calling at anything that doesn't fit in with what you feel?
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 10:22:22 AM
Are you interested in having conversations or just in name calling at anything that doesn't fit in with what you feel?Just ignore what you don't like.
The economy is driven by consumer spending. There is no "pent up" savings going on. Where is that spending going to come from?
Just out of curiosity where did you here the phrase "pent up"? :)
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 10:34:24 AM
@yuneeq curious to hear your response to these articles. We can't ignore the fact that millions of people who live paycheck to paycheck aren't going to get their next paycheck. I don't know what the right answer is
I think that if we are successful with social distancing then the price per life will be way too expensive for our comfort. But if we dont implement social distancing, the price per life lost will be embarrassingly low. I would choose the former with no regrets. I do believe there was a time where we didn't have to go nuclear, but that time period has long passed and now we're all paying the price.
Re: the second article, I think the author does not understand exponential growth, as every comparison she makes is off its mark.
One thing I will suggest, the answer to all the people out of jobs is not to simply hand out money. It will cost a ton of money just to give out the money, and it's extremely inefficient at what it's meant to do. Have cities and communities work together to give out free food and look after the elderly. Perhaps suspend mortgage foreclosures temporarily and give banks the support to do so. Find ways to mitigate the short term problems without just throwing money at the issue.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
One thing I will suggest, the answer to all the people out of jobs is not to simply hand out money. It will cost a ton of money just to give out the money, and it's extremely inefficient at what it's meant to do. Have cities and communities work together to give out free food and look after the elderly. Perhaps suspend mortgage foreclosures temporarily and give banks the support to do so. Find ways to mitigate the short term problems without just throwing money at the issue.I think you would agree that this is going to be political. How can you vote against a giveaway? Not taking sides, just pointing out reality.
ETA:https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump-administration-seeks-roughly-dollar850-billion-in-emergency-stimulus-to-confront-coronavirus-economic-fallout/ar-BB11iZzf?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 10:44:56 AM
Just ignore what you don't like.
The economy is driven by consumer spending. There is no "pent up" savings going on. Where is that spending going to come from?
Just out of curiosity where did you here the phrase "pent up"? :)
There is just no need to be so angry at everyone.
There is lots of economic activity on hold now. Many businesses and corporations can and definitely some are postponing projects. There are postponed vacations, private purchases. There are many things that can bounce back very quickly after this passes. How much will it be? I have no idea.
Just to repeat, a bounce up does not mean that it will go back to recent highs in the near future.
I didn't hear the phrase anywhere. Why? Who had used it?
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 10:49:35 AM
There is just no need to be so angry at everyone.I am not angry. If anything my post are tame compared to normal. Have I used any of my hotkey responses? :)
There is lots of economic activity on hold now. Many businesses and corporations can and definitely some are postponing projects. There are postponed vacations, private purchases. There are many things that can bounce back very quickly after this passes. How much will it be? I have no idea.
Just to repeat, a bounce up does not mean that it will go back to recent highs in the near future.
I didn't hear the phrase anywhere. Why? Who had used it?
I agree with what you are saying but where is the average American going to get the money. They are going to be hit the hardest, not people like you and me.
The "pent up" phrase is being repeated over an over againg by someone I won't name but you will get on the first guess.
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 10:52:39 AM
I think you would agree that this is going to be political. How can you vote against a giveaway? Not taking sides, just pointing out reality.
I think certain things are above politics. In my lifetime Ive only seen it once before, after 9/11. The way I see America unified about social distancing, I believe we can be unified for more than that. We will pay employees that are stuck home. Landlords wont be throwing tenants out, both residential and commercial. Communities will come together to take care of the poor and elderly. It wont be perfect, but we will all get through it together if we have the proper attitude.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 10:53:36 AM
I think certain things are above politics. In my lifetime Ive only seen it once before, after 9/11. The way I see America unified about social distancing, I believe we can be unified for more than that. We will pay employees that are stuck home. Landlords wont be throwing tenants out, both residential and commercial. Communities will come together to take care of the poor and elderly. It wont be perfect, but we will all get through it together if we have the proper attitude.I will hope for the best.
The thing about 911 is it hit us all at once and this is drip drip drip.
Post by: zale on March 17, 2020, 10:55:02 AM
I think certain things are above politics. In my lifetime Ive only seen it once before, after 9/11. The way I see America unified about social distancing, I believe we can be unified for more than that. We will pay employees that are stuck home. Landlords wont be throwing tenants out, both residential and commercial. Communities will come together to take care of the poor and elderly. It wont be perfect, but we will all get through it together if we have the proper attitude.
THIS. This is what it will boil down to.
Post by: Ergel on March 17, 2020, 10:59:16 AM
I will hope for the best.And there was a common enemy
The thing about 911 is it hit us all at once and this is drip drip drip.
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 11:00:21 AM
I am not angry. If anything my post are tame compared to normal. Have I used any of my hotkey responses? :)I fully understand what you are saying about the average American.
I agree with what you are saying but where is the average American going to get the money. They are going to be hit the hardest, not people like you and me.
The "pent up" phrase is being repeated over an over againg by someone I won't name but you will get on the first guess.
Oh no then I will stop using that term.
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 11:16:06 AM
We will pay employees that are stuck home.Not sure how long B&M stores can do this for if we get to full lockdown mode.
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 11:21:33 AM
Maybe worth considering chloroquine for C19 https://t.co/LEYob7Jofr
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 16, 2020
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 11:54:11 AM
Post by: stooges44 on March 17, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Post by: hvaces42 on March 17, 2020, 02:02:24 PM
TRAGEDY IN FLATBUSH: One-Year-Old Jewish Child Niftar Being Tested For Coronavirus
March 17, 2020 1:14 pm
A one-year-old baby boy was Niftar on Monday morning, and the Health Department is awaiting test results for COVID-19.
The 1 and a half year-old-boy, was identified as Michael Kameo ZL. His family is a member of the Sephardic Community in Flatbush.
Sources tell YWN that he was in the hospital last week for an upper-respiratory infection, but had been released and was home when he was found unresponsive on Monday morning.
He was rushed to the hospital where he was RL Niftar.
Post by: Yard sale on March 17, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/breaking-monmouth-medical-center-southern-campus-says-discharged-patient-tested-positive-for-coronavirus.html
Post by: Shmobaum on March 17, 2020, 02:48:30 PM
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 02:50:17 PM
Looks like many mainstream frum doctors (Shanik...) are going with the UK method.UK method appears to be failing as teachers get sick and can't go to school.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 02:54:10 PM
UK method appears to be failing as teachers get sick and can't go to school.Depends what you call failing.
if their overall death rate is less, we can call it a success.
Post by: yesitsme on March 17, 2020, 02:55:17 PM
Post by: hvaces42 on March 17, 2020, 02:57:29 PM
.I didnt wait to find out which one. One of the menahelim places his talis bag right next to me every morning. He davens at the second minyan and I daven at the first. I davened at home this morning...
Post by: yesitsme on March 17, 2020, 02:58:17 PM
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 03:06:47 PM
Depends what you call failing.The elder there are screwed on a regular day.
if their overall death rate is less, we can call it a success.
Post by: efflpetzel on March 17, 2020, 04:11:28 PM
The elder there are screwed on a regular day.Please stick to the facts
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 04:19:54 PM
Please stick to the factsThis comes from people living there.
Post by: efflpetzel on March 17, 2020, 04:24:05 PM
This comes from people living there.I used to live there.
If you want to debate the British NHS open a different thread
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 04:25:12 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-doctor-says-lung-scans-for-young-patients-were-nothing-short-of-terrifying/
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 04:27:49 PM
(https://matzav.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Screenshot-2020-03-17-at-12.05.45-PM.png)
Post by: Chapshnell on March 17, 2020, 04:27:57 PM
The elder there are screwed on a regular day.
fact indeed
Post by: Hjay on March 17, 2020, 04:40:22 PM
Post by: grodnoking on March 17, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
Lakewoods first confirmed. Kimball never bothered notifying anyone? TypicalAnd of course no name. And no Lakewood place administers the test unless you had contact with a confirmed case. So no one who has the symptoms can get tested because they don't know that they where in contact with this unknown person. And then they give it to the next, who gives to the next...
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/breaking-monmouth-medical-center-southern-campus-says-discharged-patient-tested-positive-for-coronavirus.html
And this is why we probably have thousands of unconfirmed cases in lakewood.
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
And of course no name. And no Lakewood place administers the test unless you had contact with a confirmed case. So no one who has the symptoms can get tested because they don't know that they where in contact with this unknown person. And then they give it to the next, who gives to the next...It would be a HIPPA violation for the hospital to release a name.
And this is why we probably have thousands of unconfirmed cases in lakewood.
Post by: grodnoking on March 17, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
It would be a HIPPA violation for the hospital to release a name.Well someone should release it, or someone should change the rules of who gets tested, because this is ridiculous.
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 04:55:23 PM
Meanwhile all western Journos expelled
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 04:59:12 PM
Simple question. What is Covid-19 symptoms? When I google it I get dry cough, fever & body aches. But then Ill see ppl saying any cold / cough stay away from ppl. Can I please get some clarification from the Covid-19 experts here?It affects people differently. Some have no symptoms and some have what you posted or in between.
Post by: ah giten on March 17, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
It affects people differently. Some have no symptoms and some have what you posted or in between.Local Dr's still telling patients that if its only a cough, or only fever, they shouldn't worry.
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 05:18:24 PM
Post by: whYME on March 17, 2020, 05:38:07 PM
Local Dr's still telling patients that if its only a cough, or only fever, they shouldn't worry.That's misrepresenting it. (I'm assuming you're talking about Crown heights)
They're saying anyone with any symptoms should assume they have the virus and self quarantine. They're saying there's no point in getting tested for mild symptoms (unless you're an at-risk patient) because there's nothing they can do to treat it and this is what you would have to do if you were positive anyways, so might as well skip the testing step (because everyone is assumed to have been exposed at this point) so as not to put more strain on the system and not put the healthcare workers at risk.
The "don't worry" part is that the vast majority of people seem to only have very mild symptoms
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 06:08:27 PM
Post by: gingyguy on March 17, 2020, 06:19:41 PM
Spring break is going to be a disaster. Drunken young grasshoppers who think they are invisible. >:( >:( >:(Not even gonna bother with a FTFY , just gonna say OUCH!!!
Post by: Dave321 on March 17, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 06:26:24 PM
Amex offering to defer payments with no interest for two months. Both personal and business. Just by calling.DDMS
Post by: Dan on March 17, 2020, 06:26:42 PM
Anyone try calling Chase to see what they're offering to do?
Post by: Dave321 on March 17, 2020, 06:40:38 PM
Any basis for rumors that it can trigger a FR?
Rep said that card can still be used etc. Others reporting the card is frozen.
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 06:41:23 PM
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 06:53:18 PM
YWN downJust needed a good sterilization. Back up now :)
Post by: yuneeq on March 17, 2020, 06:56:58 PM
Just needed a good sterilization. Back up now :)
Its just the flu everything will be fine.
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 07:00:02 PM
Just needed a good sterilization. Back up now :)Thanks for fixing it :)
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 07:01:14 PM
Post by: zale on March 17, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
Its just the flu everything will be fine.
If you think about it, is is like the flu. The flu killed millions over the years until we've become immune both naturally and through vaccines. We don't have any immunity or vaccines for Covid.
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 07:05:28 PM
Its just the flu everything will be fine.Had an entire crew trying to disinfect that site. Its no use
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 07:07:21 PM
Had an entire crew trying to disinfect that site. Its no useAutoclave. ;)
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
Update: As per @DiderRaoult - the study shows combination of HCQ * Azithromycin is most effective treatment
— Gregory Rigano (@RiganoESQ) March 17, 2020
1 control group (placebo)
1 HCQ group
1 HCQ * Azithromycin group
follow his youtube for more info, major announcements coming ...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub
https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/988648/COVID-19-Drug-Therapy_Mar-2020.pdf
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 07:11:33 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-covid-19-news-and-live-updates-120246923.html
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 07:17:58 PM
&feature=youtu.be
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 07:27:53 PM
Is this method approved to be used anywhere?
Post by: aygart on March 17, 2020, 07:31:15 PM
Is this method approved to be used anywhere?Dunno. The first comment is by the posting doctor saying that patients need to be paralyzed. Other comments from people claiming to be MDs bring up other potential issues.
Post by: stooges44 on March 17, 2020, 08:08:33 PM
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 08:08:46 PM
At this point it's easier to say which store/brand/organization did NOT send out a covid19 email.Are there any?
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
Amex offering to defer payments with no interest for two months. Both personal and business. Just by calling.
Oops. Just made a payment. Will requesting this be a hit to Credit?
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 08:20:16 PM
Oops. Just made a payment. Will requesting this be a hit to Credit?idk but they do freeze your card if you do it
Post by: ExGingi on March 17, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
idk but they do freeze your card if you do itObviously.
Post by: YoniPDX on March 17, 2020, 08:32:05 PM
I've read this is utter fake news
FWIW Snopes says unproven (but Snopes is not my first or 21st stop for a fact check).
According to this new site -its coming from the WHO and a Lancet journal study .
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/who-warns-against-use-of-ibuprofen-for-coronavirus-symptoms
Considering that Inflammation is part of a histamine/cytokine/part of the immune response (and fever is also part of our immune response as heat denatures the protein shell of viruses and destroys bacteria and other infections.
Part of the reason that the young seem too be more resilient may have to do with mast cells not being activated by the virus - since the average age per WHO has 81yo - IMHO its something that the "greatest generation" has been exposed to previously - hence the aggressive immune response (Cytokine storm/anaphylaxis type response).
Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory - body can over-respond Cytokine storm (hypercytokinemia) by flooding the lungs with a surge of activated immune cells -This has been the suspected cause of rapid deterioration and often death (not necessarily from taking Ibuprofen - but it can be a mitigating factor).
Post by: Luvisrael on March 17, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
https://bucks.crimewatchpa.com/perkasieboroughpd/36078/post/potential-corona-virus-testing-scam
Also heard people are saying they need your SS number to test
Post by: TimT on March 17, 2020, 09:08:42 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/secret-service-warns-americans-of-coronavirus-related-scams/This scam is going around in various places.
https://bucks.crimewatchpa.com/perkasieboroughpd/36078/post/potential-corona-virus-testing-scam
Also heard people are saying they need your SS number to test
Post by: stooges44 on March 17, 2020, 09:32:41 PM
His site is: http://kghdoc.com/ but it ironically expired a few days ago and he's probably too busy these days to renew
Quote
This is Ellie Bennett. You all know who I am and where I work. I just feel that I have to go on record. It is my medical opinion, and the same of all the infectious disease experts, that these minyamin are going to kill people. I know it is very difficult for you all to understand it because it seems like an innocuous gathering of 15 to 20 people. I will happily take any of you on a 5-minute tour of what is going on in my hospital right now. As of this past Thursday we had seven patients sick enough to be admitted. As of yesterday it was 30 and as of today it's 50. Elderly people from our neighborhood are on ventilators in the ICU because of these minyamin. There's a 6 a.m minyan, followed by 7an followed by 8am followed by 9am minyan. Even if only 25 people come to each , that's a hundred people in the same room in the same morning. Statistically, you guys are going to kill at least one old person every time you guys meet. you all trust me to treat you like family when you come to my office, so I'm speaking to you like family. Stop the minyan. Stop the gatherings. Stay home and pray by yourself. Have in mind the EMTs and paramedics and doctors and nurses working in the hospitals who are working under ridiculous conditions trying to save as many people as we can. I admit, there will not be thousands of deaths in kgh. But are we really willing to accept that 1 out 100 people in our neighborhood will die. I am not.
We trust doctors whether or not to eat on Yom Kippur or when to make a bris.
Why all of a sudden do you think it's appropriate to ignore us?
Have a good night and good luck to us all
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 09:37:21 PM
Booked to fly CX F JFK-YVR-JFK in 2 weeks.Did you short the market??
Wondering if I should cancel...
Have you changed your travel plans over the Wuhan Coronavirus?
You would have made a boatload, seeing this so far in advance.
Pity The POTUS did not have the insight to see this coming here
Post by: flatbush guy on March 17, 2020, 09:40:56 PM
Some strong words from a local doc:Special doctor.wow
His site is: http://kghdoc.com/ but it ironically expired a few days ago and he's probably too busy these days to renew
Post by: srap on March 17, 2020, 10:24:58 PM
Spring break is going to be a disaster. Drunken young grasshoppers who think they are invisible. >:( >:( >:(and invincible.
Post by: etech0 on March 17, 2020, 11:05:33 PM
YWN down
Had an entire crew trying to disinfect that site. Its no useAll the things we have come to rely upon have proven to be unreliable after all!
Post by: CountValentine on March 17, 2020, 11:11:55 PM
Florida governor refuses to shut down beaches amid spread of coronavirus.
Post by: Luvisrael on March 17, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
Money over safety!!! >:( >:( >:(i would prob head to the beach if I had the time now. Prob safer there than anywhere else
Florida governor refuses to shut down beaches amid spread of coronavirus.
Post by: whYME on March 18, 2020, 12:34:15 AM
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 12:41:33 AM
i would prob head to the beach if I had the time now. Prob safer there than anywhere elseDuring spring break? ::)
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 12:43:31 AM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/sichel-before-you-have-an-opinion-on-coronavirus-ask-yourself-these-questionsReading quickly, sounds like this guy would choose to have another Italy situation rather then an economic recession. Interesting ethics.
Post by: whYME on March 18, 2020, 12:51:16 AM
Reading quickly, sounds like this guy would choose to have another Italy situation rather then an economic recession. Interesting ethics.Nope, you completely missed his point.
Post by: zale on March 18, 2020, 12:51:33 AM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/sichel-before-you-have-an-opinion-on-coronavirus-ask-yourself-these-questions
Everyone says this until the virus hits home. People underestimated and continue to underestimate how threatening this virus is. Measures seemed extreme until people I know started coming down with symptoms, some severe. If the economy needs to suffer from it, there is nothing we can do about that.
In biblical terms, this is a מגפה. Plain and simple.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 01:01:08 AM
Nope, you completely missed his point.So please summarize
Post by: yuneeq on March 18, 2020, 01:23:12 AM
So please summarize
Basically 4 questions
-Are millions of lives worth the economic risk? (tough one)
-Why don't we quarantine the elderly so the young people can destroy the entire healthcare system and ensure millions die as soon as possible? (good question)
-Is there a plan? (I think health officials mentioned a plan, maybe it was fattening the herd or something weird.)
-Can someone write an article about corona spend more time writing it than researching it? (Yes)
Post by: ilherman on March 18, 2020, 01:23:18 AM
SOme of the best news out thereIs this for real? Or someone dreaming? Why am I not seeing it anywhere in the MSM?Update: As per @DiderRaoult - the study shows combination of HCQ * Azithromycin is most effective treatment
— Gregory Rigano (@RiganoESQ) March 17, 2020
1 control group (placebo)
1 HCQ group
1 HCQ * Azithromycin group
follow his youtube for more info, major announcements coming ...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub
https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/988648/COVID-19-Drug-Therapy_Mar-2020.pdf
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 18, 2020, 04:18:32 AM
https://www.algemeiner.com/2020/03/13/corona-is-slowing-down-humanity-will-survive-says-biophysicist-michael-levitt/
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/articles/0,7340,L-3800632,00.html
פרופ' מייקל לויט, חתן פרס נובל לכימיה ומייעץ לרה"מ בנושא קורונה, ל-#קלמןליברמן: "אני לא מאמין למספרים בישראל, הכול פה פוליטי זה לא מתמטיקה. זה לא נכון שמכינים את הציבור לקראת קטסטרופה. יש מדינות שכבר עברו את המחלה והתגברו"@KalmanLiebskind @asaf_lib https://t.co/GbG97aucI5
— כאן חדשות (@kann_news) March 18, 2020
Accurately predicted the Wuhan final stats in the first week of Februrary. Claims Italy peaked 2 days ago. Will be surprised if 10 people die in Israel. Most of afraid of USA.
If you trust him, buy stocks.
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 07:15:15 AM
These numbers can't be trusted. Based on the number of serious cases I am aware of in my community alone, there's no way these numbers are correct.
Post by: Proisrael on March 18, 2020, 07:23:19 AM
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 09:58:44 AM
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/materials_minerals_pdf/covid19.pdf
Post by: ilherman on March 18, 2020, 10:11:01 AM
1. How is it that China is not having any more new cases? I thought when a lot of people have it then it spreads even more, so if 50k people there had it yesterday why isn't it 100k today? It does not seem like they enforced stricter social distancing guidelines this past week and that is what stopped it. So what is it?
2. How is it that in Israel there are literally NO known cases in the Chareidi community while here in Brooklyn there are hundreds? (just spoke with someone there) And no, social distancing in the Chareidi communities there is not at all better there. Its actually worse, while today here in Brooklyn all shulls and Mikvahs are closed in Beth Shemesh, Jerusalem they are all open.
Things do not add up.
Post by: Ergel on March 18, 2020, 10:15:03 AM
Can someone answer me these basic questions?I don't know the answer to #1, but the answer to #2 is your information is outdated
1. How is it that China is not having any more new cases? I thought when a lot of people have it then it spreads even more, so if 50k people there had it yesterday why isn't it 100k today? It does not seem like they enforced stricter social distancing guidelines this past week and that is what stopped it. So what is it?
2. How is it that in Israel there are literally NO known cases in the Chareidi community while here in Brooklyn there are hundreds? (just spoke with someone there) And no, social distancing in the Chareidi communities there is not at all better there. Its actually worse, while today here in Brooklyn all shulls and Mikvahs are closed in Beth Shemesh, Jerusalem they are all open.
Things do not add up.
Post by: Boruch999 on March 18, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
Post by: Boruch999 on March 18, 2020, 10:16:24 AM
I don't know the answer to #1, but the answer to #2 is your information is outdated
+1
Post by: dovy2 on March 18, 2020, 10:20:15 AM
Let's there be a million positive cases of healthy people at home, what difference does that make to anyone?
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 10:25:22 AM
Let's there be a million positive cases of healthy people at home, what difference does that make to anyone?I could be wrong but I think I heard they are trying to stop the spread.
Post by: ilherman on March 18, 2020, 10:26:21 AM
I don't know the answer to #1, but the answer to #2 is your information is outdatedMy info is accurate as of an hour ago. I spoke to someone very active in beth shemesh. Main mikvahs are all open and there were still 2 weddings last night where hundreds of people were cramped together.
Post by: ckmk47 on March 18, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Can someone answer me these basic questions?Until a few days ago, the Brookllyn Chareidi community had only a few cases. But then a walkin clinic started offering tests. And now there's 100 new cases! Out of 1000 tested.
2. How is it that in Israel there are literally NO known cases in the Chareidi community while here in Brooklyn there are hundreds? (just spoke with someone there) And no, social distancing in the Chareidi communities there is not at all better there. Its actually worse, while today here in Brooklyn all shulls and Mikvahs are closed in Beth Shemesh, Jerusalem they are all open.
Things do not add up.
IDK, but is 10% affected but not sick enough for a hospital that bad?
Post by: zale on March 18, 2020, 11:36:54 AM
Until a few days ago, the Brookllyn Chareidi community had only a few cases. But then a walkin clinic started offering tests. And now there's 100 new cases! Out of 1000 tested.
IDK, but is 10% affected but not sick enough for a hospital that bad?
I don't think you understand how this works. Please do some research on Google because I'm too tired to explain this.
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 11:47:44 AM
Can someone answer me these basic questions?https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-fake-whistleblowers-191300391.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=fb
1. How is it that China is not having any more new cases? I thought when a lot of people have it then it spreads even more, so if 50k people there had it yesterday why isn't it 100k today? It does not seem like they enforced stricter social distancing guidelines this past week and that is what stopped it. So what is it?
Things do not add up.
https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-03-04/lights-are-on-but-no-ones-working-how-local-governments-are-faking-coronavirus-recovery-101524058.html
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 11:48:36 AM
Until a few days ago, the Brookllyn Chareidi community had only a few cases. But then a walkin clinic started offering tests. And now there's 100 new cases! Out of 1000 tested.
IDK, but is 10% affected but not sick enough for a hospital that bad?
I don't think you understand how this works. Please do some research on Google because I'm too tired to explain this.
Maybe this will help
this is why it's so important for everybody to stay home
https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/covid-hospitals
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 12:13:44 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-fake-whistleblowers-191300391.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=fb
https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-03-04/lights-are-on-but-no-ones-working-how-local-governments-are-faking-coronavirus-recovery-101524058.html
On this note.....
https://www.wsj.com/articles/singapore-taiwan-and-hong-kong-face-second-wave-of-coronavirus-cases-11584445836?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1Horrifying! Wave 2 of #COVID19 hit several areas in #Hanyang District #Wuhan #China. Patients from #Fangcang discharged without diagnosis. Hospitals stopped doing blood tests after one patient test positive. This doctor in #Wuhan says #Coronavirus is now a political problem. pic.twitter.com/jNVCkOzI2a
— Jennifer Zeng 曾錚 (@jenniferatntd) March 15, 2020
Post by: ilherman on March 18, 2020, 12:37:52 PM
Post by: shwarmabob on March 18, 2020, 12:45:15 PM
So now Israel is shutting down borders completely?Israeli citizens can enter
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Israeli citizens can enter
As well as non citizens who permanently reside in Israel.
Post by: ilherman on March 18, 2020, 02:15:32 PM
Post by: avromie7 on March 18, 2020, 02:26:52 PM
@Dan I believe LY will continue to operate at least one flight a day. Of course if you can then be cautious and come home if you have to. But ut seems like LY will continue flying for now.Everything is changing incredibly fast.
Post by: israshot on March 18, 2020, 02:49:36 PM
@Dan I believe LY will continue to operate at least one flight a day. Of course if you can then be cautious and come home if you have to. But ut seems like LY will continue flying for now.Who can fly? Someone with a dual citizenship, and someone that is willing to quarantine 14 days when arriving back to Israel. Maybe 2 flights/week across all companies it's enough?
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Who can fly? Someone with a dual citizenship, and someone that is willing to quarantine 14 days when arriving back to Israel. Maybe 2 flights/week across all companies it's enough?There are plenty of Israelis still knocking on my door every day.
Post by: israshot on March 18, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
There are plenty of Israelis still knocking on my door every day.Are they also US citizens? The ban on foreigners was just 5 days ago.
Post by: Chapshnell on March 18, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/03/18/hasidic-community-ignores-social-distancing-orders-amid-coronavirus/
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 04:03:26 PM
What a headline, we gotta behave...I am going to be blunt. This is an anti-Semitics wet dream.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/18/hasidic-community-ignores-social-distancing-orders-amid-coronavirus/
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 05:01:45 PM
Post by: flatbush guy on March 18, 2020, 05:34:32 PM
they want to release inmates now
Post by: HKFS on March 18, 2020, 05:39:46 PM
There have always been epidemics. The world was so simple. Although they spread, relative to what's going on today, they were confined. Face it, between technology and travel, the world has gotten very small. From one individual somewhere in China, all of humanity is going out of its mind. This is definitely a result of the fact that the world is so advanced.
We're not neviim, we're not prophets here, but it's difficult not to take note of the fact that humanity has felt so much in control of everything that this whole situation is humbling. People are especially scared because they're not used to this. We've been made to feel so secure because we are so much in control of everything. Modern medicine, how we've come such a long way. It's humbling. It's humbling when you read what doctors have to say. Some are honest and say, "We really don't know. We've never dealt with this virus before."
Others, others are double talking. How long does this virus live? "Um, somewhere between 4 and 20 hours, maybe a couple of days." In other words, we don't know. We don't know. Will it survive the summer? Nobody knows. How far are we away from a vaccination? Nobody knows. A cure? Viruses aren't so curable. We don't know. Why is it that when so many people are exposed, only some are affected, not others? Nobody knows. The whole thing is a mystery.
We're humbled. We're humbled this microscopic particle is making the whole world crazy. People's personal, just sense of security is gone. Look what's going on financially. Our lifestyles are changing totally. There's a real fear.
The very first thing we've got to do is catch ourselves and remember we don't run the world. For anyone that understands that there's Divine Providence. We are being reminded that although the Almighty has given us so much wisdom, with all of that, there's so much we don't know and there's so much that's beyond our control. Then ultimately, if we recognize that He loves us and we count on Him and trust in Him, we'll be fine. Everything he does is the best for us even though we don't understand it. We'll be in a whole better place.
The first thing is just to recognize we don't run the world. We don't know everything. There's Someone bigger than all of us. With the tiniest thing, He can just change the face of all of humanity.
But I'd like to talk about some other parts of it. People are panicking. For the most part, most human beings are not really in danger. Face it. For most people, even if infected, God forbid. So it's a bad flu. Those who are autoimmune compromised, including the elderly, for them it's an issue. But for most ... So what is it? We have a responsibility to everybody else. We have a responsibility to all of those people who are vulnerable. We have a responsibility to all those who are autoimmune compromised. So all of the measures that are being taken are not for our own selfish sake, but for the sake of others. So that we don't get others in a position where their lives are in danger. Certainly not in proportions where the medical facility, the medical establishment will just not be able to handle it. Which means that everybody's really got to focus on the fact that all the precautions we're taking are not because we're scared out of our wits, but because we have a sense of responsibility, because we care about the rest of humanity. We care about everybody else.
You've got to feel that. You've got to take things seriously. You know, whatever decisions are being made locally, I'm talking from Israel. Israel is a relatively small country. The claim is that with extreme measures, it can be contained. It can really be contained to the point that they think they can rid the country of it. So the measures are extreme, everything's in turmoil, they closed just about everything.
America is too big. The issue with slowing it down so that when people do take ill, those that need medical attention, it will be available for them because there'll be enough, enough available for them. Every place, every city has its own laws, it's got its own rules. Make sure to live by them. You take this serious, but not because you're scared that something's going to happen to you. People are panicking. For most people, it's totally unnecessary. What we're talking about is a bad flu. It's uncomfortable and inconvenient, but feel that sense of responsibility for everybody else. Feel that I'm being cautious, I'm being cautious so that I do not catch something that I could God forbid transmit to others that will eventually end up with someone whose life will be in danger, which means that really, what should be most that should be really most occupying our minds should be the feeling for others. The sense of responsibility and the feeling for others. That's a wonderful thing to focus on. I say once you're there, it'd be great idea to revisit some of your old relationships, the ones who've given up on. The people that you've written off, the people that in your mind are problematic, and maybe start thinking about them in a more constructive way.
At a time of danger, people are a little bit more open to hearing things that they didn't hear before. I think in our own minds, we should work through some of the relationships gone bad, some of the people that you don't like, and think it through again. The people you think wronged you, "Let me think it through again." I think that's a great idea.
But by and large, the focus is we're being careful. Sanitizing your hands; careful not shaking hands; when your outside, when you're touching things that were touched by all kinds of people, making sure you don't touch your face. The reason to do it is because you don't want to hurt anybody else, because you don't want to endanger people who are vulnerable.
This is really the mindset. So no panic and no personal insecurity, but a strong sense of responsibility and a very strong one. Certainly following the rules. It may not be a bad idea to think about going past some of the rules and seeing a little bit into the future. Not in every place have they taken the measures that are really necessary yet, and you may want to do that. In terms of holding public gatherings, giving public classes with lots of people around, today you can give classes online. There's no reason why you have to go and endanger anybody. This, this is really the mindset I believe.
Just to get back to things. First of all, to remember we don't run the world. There's Someone bigger than us up there. Despite the fact and perhaps because of the fact that we're so advanced, this has caused so much trouble, it has spread so quickly all over the world and has caused the kind of damage that could never have been done in previous generations. So recognizing that the One Above has shown us how this microscopic being can go and set everything haywire, there's Someone bigger than us. Learn to trust Him and know that He does love us.
Second, recognize that it's not you that's in danger. It's others. You're not walking around panicking because you're afraid of what's going to happen to you, but you're walking around with a great sense of responsibility.
Let me conclude. There was a Torah commandment of prayer in time of trouble and time of need. People are looking around for the magic potion. What do I say that will save me? And a lot of things out there. We're not into the magic. There's a Torah commandment to speak to your Creator, to give us some advice on how to run the world because He wants to hear that from us. He is the address. To let Him know, to let Him know that we care about humanity, that it pains us, and we beg, we beg that He put the pieces back together again. That He puts an end to this threat and an end to the turmoil that all of civilization has found itself in.
So everyone should be praying. A prayer could be in your own words. In fact, it's probably more effective when you say what you mean and mean what you say.
May the One Above hear all of our prayers and may this come to an end in a happy ending. May we one day find out that it was actually for our benefit and He does love us after all. Then hopefully, in the not so distant future, this world will be a much better place to live in. May you all be very healthy.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 18, 2020, 05:51:45 PM
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 05:52:27 PM
Just received word from an ICU doctor at a small NY hospital: They are officially out of ventilators and are now double venting patients with COVID (using the same ventilator for 2 infected patients). Do everything possible to avoid infection. PLEASE ISOLATE as best you can.
— Peter Attia (@PeterAttiaMD) March 18, 2020
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
I guess three days was fake news. ;)Just received word from an ICU doctor at a small NY hospital: They are officially out of ventilators and are now double venting patients with COVID (using the same ventilator for 2 infected patients). Do everything possible to avoid infection. PLEASE ISOLATE as best you can.
— Peter Attia (@PeterAttiaMD) March 18, 2020
Post by: chevron on March 18, 2020, 07:49:57 PM
I guess three days was fake news. ;)
Oh well. Wish I was wrong
Post by: YoniPDX on March 18, 2020, 07:52:06 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/03/18/attorney-at-center-of-new-rochelle-coronavirus-outbreak-wakes-from-coma/
BH
He is only a little older than me, so I've been watching for news - was concerning that he was in a Coma (induced perhaps?)
Hopefully, not to many clients exposed practiced elder law.
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 08:08:22 PM
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 18, 2020, 08:09:06 PM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/03/covid-19-update-4.html
Basics like grocery shopping, picking up medications, etc.
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 18, 2020, 08:10:27 PM
Don't know what the best thread for this is, but if you're in Crown Heights and you are able to help seniors and people in isolation, please volunteer here:I dont live in CH, but this is so nice. Hope they get volunteers. This is so important for people to be able to carry out isolation.
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/03/covid-19-update-4.html
Basics like grocery shopping, picking up medications, etc.
Post by: Luvisrael on March 18, 2020, 08:10:56 PM
Don't know what the best thread for this is, but if you're in Crown Heights and you are able to help seniors and people in isolation, please volunteer here:(https://i.ibb.co/wdfmnNf/58166207-57-E2-4-E00-87-E3-839-A649-AF1-E5.png) (https://ibb.co/wdfmnNf)
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/03/covid-19-update-4.html
Basics like grocery shopping, picking up medications, etc.
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 09:03:42 PM
Post by: jmz on March 18, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Fox had some guy on that says France has a cure. 40 or 50 test case and was 100% effective.Do you have a link?
Post by: flatbush guy on March 18, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
I guess three days was fake news. ;)scary.
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 09:13:52 PM
Do you have a link?Seen it live, sorry.
Now after watching Hannity for 5 minutes I threw up. That needs to go!!! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: YitzyS on March 18, 2020, 09:14:27 PM
Do you have a link?
Seen it live, sorry.I followed the twitter account the guy gave. This is the account, and the study he was referring to.
Now after watching Hannity for 5 minutes I threw up. That needs to go!!! >:( >:( >:(
https://twitter.com/RiganoESQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9RqfsmEx55FDum4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 09:18:33 PM
I followed the twitter account the guy gave. This is the account, and the study he was referring to.That was him.
https://twitter.com/RiganoESQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9RqfsmEx55FDum4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view
Post by: Lou Bob on March 18, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
Post by: israshot on March 18, 2020, 09:38:47 PM
Anyone else not able to smell or taste anything for the last week?I have a friend that had the same, and heard other reports too.
Post by: ah giten on March 18, 2020, 09:54:22 PM
Do you have a link?I think this
Invalid Tweet ID
Post by: YitzyS on March 18, 2020, 09:57:41 PM
I think thisI already posted the link. It doesn't have the Fox News clip, but it's the guy's twitter account and a link to the study.
Invalid Tweet ID
I followed the twitter account the guy gave. This is the account, and the study he was referring to.
https://twitter.com/RiganoESQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9RqfsmEx55FDum4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 10:01:59 PM
Fox had some guy on that says France has a cure. 40 or 50 test case and was 100% effective.
This?
SOme of the best news out thereUpdate: As per @DiderRaoult - the study shows combination of HCQ * Azithromycin is most effective treatment
— Gregory Rigano (@RiganoESQ) March 17, 2020
1 control group (placebo)
1 HCQ group
1 HCQ * Azithromycin group
follow his youtube for more info, major announcements coming ...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub
https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/988648/COVID-19-Drug-Therapy_Mar-2020.pdf
Post by: ah giten on March 18, 2020, 10:06:38 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 10:08:37 PM
Anyone else not able to smell or taste anything for the last week? 😱My wife and son.
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 18, 2020, 10:13:21 PM
My wife and son.My siblings also.
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 10:33:17 PM
My wife and son.
My siblings also.What is all this about?
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 10:34:19 PM
What is all this about?Covid symptoms
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 10:37:05 PM
Covid symptomsDidn't know that.
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 10:40:26 PM
Covid symptoms
Different people have different symptoms. I had low grade fever and diarrhea. No appetite.
Post by: CountValentine on March 18, 2020, 10:41:55 PM
Different people have different symptoms. I had low grade fever and diarrhea. No appetite.Do you think you have it? Have you been tested?
Post by: israshot on March 18, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
What is waiting for #israelis at #TLV#COVID19 pic.twitter.com/cQ2VsCRw3c
— Israel Scholte (@Israshot_) March 19, 2020
Post by: Dan on March 18, 2020, 10:50:01 PM
SOme of the best news out thereVery tiny study.Update: As per @DiderRaoult - the study shows combination of HCQ * Azithromycin is most effective treatment
— Gregory Rigano (@RiganoESQ) March 17, 2020
1 control group (placebo)
1 HCQ group
1 HCQ * Azithromycin group
follow his youtube for more info, major announcements coming ...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub
https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/988648/COVID-19-Drug-Therapy_Mar-2020.pdf
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 18, 2020, 11:02:28 PM
Everyone says this until the virus hits home. People underestimated and continue to underestimate how threatening this virus is. Measures seemed extreme until people I know started coming down with symptoms, some severe. If the economy needs to suffer from it, there is nothing we can do about that.UK already completely walked back their plan
In biblical terms, this is a מגפה. Plain and simple.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 18, 2020, 11:07:54 PM
Anyone else not able to smell or taste anything for the last week? 😱Confirmed CO-VID19 symptoms
Post by: The Metzuyan on March 18, 2020, 11:10:05 PM
Anyone else not able to smell or taste anything for the last week? 😱
Yes.
I know of at least 5 people with this symptom- some with only this symptom- of which two tested positive. The others werent tested.
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:23:59 PM
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 11:32:17 PM
I had a minor event. Hatzolah recommend I go to ER to be tested. All heart and lung tests BH good. They did swab my nose, but now they are telling me that they are testing for Flu not Corona Virus.event? Care to elaborate? Difficulty breathing?
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:33:17 PM
event? Care to elaborate? Difficulty breathing?
Almost passed out. Only "difficulty" breathing was due to mask. Got an IV and some apple juice at the ER, feeling better now than I felt over the past 48 hours.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 11:34:02 PM
Almost passed out.Yikes!!! We need you here man!
Post by: ah giten on March 18, 2020, 11:34:57 PM
I had a minor event. Hatzolah recommend I go to ER to be tested. All heart and lung tests BH good. They did swab my nose, but now they are telling me that they are testing for Flu not Corona Virus.is ER packed?
Post by: aygart on March 18, 2020, 11:34:59 PM
Very tiny study.It is a start. We unfortunately have no shortage of cases to test on.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 11:35:05 PM
I had a minor event. Hatzolah recommend I go to ER to be tested. All heart and lung tests BH good. They did swab my nose, but now they are telling me that they are testing for Flu not Corona Virus.Now this is soooo frustrating!!! Why arent they just testing testing testing???
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:36:52 PM
is ER packed?
Not at all. It isn't a hospital, just ER (cobble hill) I think the guy next to me is being taken to a hospital now. An ambulance crew just came to take him. Though he was walking around.
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:37:31 PM
Now this is soooo frustrating!!! Why arent they just testing testing testing???
What for? Why assume it's anything else?
Post by: ah giten on March 18, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
Not at all. It isn't a hospital, just ER (cobble hill) I think the guy next to me is being taken to a hospital now. An ambulance crew just came to take him. Thoug he was walking around.were they at least considering taking a covid test?
Post by: Shmobaum on March 18, 2020, 11:40:56 PM
What for? Why assume it's anything else?So now every single common cold symptom has to be assumed as covid? If so theres no two sets of rules 1) ppl who tested positive & the rest of us
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 18, 2020, 11:42:00 PM
What for? Why assume it's anything else?So everyone exposed to you follows strict 14 day quarantine...
Post by: etech0 on March 18, 2020, 11:46:36 PM
So everyone exposed to you follows strict 14 day quarantine...Everyone exposed to anyone who has a runny nose or a cough or is extra tired today...
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:54:34 PM
So everyone exposed to you follows strict 14 day quarantine...
No. They said isolation (entire household) for 48 hours after fever stops.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 18, 2020, 11:55:26 PM
No. They said isolation (entire household) for 48 hours after fever stops.Oy.
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:55:46 PM
were they at least considering taking a covid test?
I don't think so, since I didn't have difficulty breathing (other than the mask).
Post by: etech0 on March 18, 2020, 11:56:43 PM
No. They said isolation (entire household) for 48 hours after fever stops.Do you have a source for that? So many different answers going around...
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 11:57:50 PM
Do you have a source for that? So many different answers going around...
Those were the instructions given to me by the PA at the ER.
Post by: etech0 on March 18, 2020, 11:58:53 PM
Those were the instructions given to me by the PA at the ER.Thx
Post by: yitzgar on March 19, 2020, 12:24:42 AM
Post by: myi on March 19, 2020, 02:41:00 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1840996/chabad-shaliach-reveals-the-secret-only-181-cases-of-the-coronavirus-in-hong-kong-a-city-of-7-4-million-people.html
Post by: chevron on March 19, 2020, 03:30:49 AM
If only everyone would adhere to the rules.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1840996/chabad-shaliach-reveals-the-secret-only-181-cases-of-the-coronavirus-in-hong-kong-a-city-of-7-4-million-people.html
Pipe dreams
Post by: moe8555 on March 19, 2020, 05:05:56 AM
Pipe dreams
Explain? You doubt the numbers? Or you mean a pipe dream for us?
Post by: Proisrael on March 19, 2020, 05:14:17 AM
Explain? You doubt the numbers? Or you mean a pipe dream for us?
Chevron is on the side tht any positive part of the virus must be lies.
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 08:48:44 AM
Glad to hear you are doing better. What was the percentage of ppl in the er that were there for coronavirus symptoms?
I was in a special section specifically for suspected corona virus, so I think everyone there was for that, and while I couldn't really see much of what was going on all over that section, it seemed like there were only about half a dozen people there.
The guy next to me was taken away (though he was able to walk) by an ambulance crew (presumably to be admitted to a hospital).
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 08:55:52 AM
I was in a special section specifically for suspected corona virus, so I think everyone there was for that, and while I couldn't really see much of what was going on all over that section, it seemed like there were only about half a dozen people there.Glad your are doing better. How about the rest of the family?
The guy next to me was taken away (though he was able to walk) by an ambulance crew (presumably to be admitted to a hospital).
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 09:15:37 AM
Glad your are doing better. How about the rest of the family?
Each individual with their own symptoms and timing. My SIL who came to pick me up was questioning why I was wearing a face mask in the car. I said it was to protect him. He chuckled and said he thinks he was the first one that had it.
Post by: stooges44 on March 19, 2020, 09:40:49 AM
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 09:43:45 AM
https://investors.simon.com/news-releases/news-release-details/simon-property-group-temporarily-closes-all-domestic-propertiesHopefully now everyone will understand how serious this is when they can't get their GC's.
Post by: NTorch on March 19, 2020, 09:50:14 AM
Yes.
I know of at least 5 people with this symptom- some with only this symptom- of which two tested positive. The others werent tested.
Three of my kids have this. None of them had fever. 2 of the 3 had the cough before they lost their sense of smell/taste. The third never had the cough, but was the first to lose taste/smell.
Anyone know how long it takes for the taste/smell to return?
Post by: cmey on March 19, 2020, 10:40:13 AM
Rich Roberts makes the claim that its a Chinese bio weapon.
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 10:46:00 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/video-dr-rich-roberts-novel-ideas-on-coronavirus-what-you-arent-being-told.html
Rich Roberts makes the claim that its a Chinese bio weapon.
That has been speculated since the beginning of the outbreak.
Post by: whYME on March 19, 2020, 10:54:22 AM
My SIL ... he thinks he was the first one that had it.Welcome to 2020 :P
Post by: aygart on March 19, 2020, 10:56:41 AM
Welcome to 2020 :PWhat was a son in law 20 years ago?
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
Welcome to 2020 :P
Yeah. I was wondering how come my ER bracelet had me as male, I don't recall anyone asking me.
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on March 19, 2020, 11:03:12 AM
Yeah. I was wondering how come my ER bracelet had me as male, I don't recall anyone asking me.ROTFL!
Post by: whYME on March 19, 2020, 11:04:45 AM
I had a minor event. Hatzolah recommend I go to ER to be tested. All heart and lung tests BH good. They did swab my nose, but now they are telling me that they are testing for Flu not Corona Virus.
No. They said isolation (entire household) for 48 hours after fever stops.So they think you DO have the Coronavirus or that you DON'T?
Post by: AsherO on March 19, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
Very tiny study.
+1
Has anyone noticed if the study included people with serious life-threatening symptoms?
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 11:09:58 AM
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 11:13:22 AM
So they think you DO have the Coronavirus or that you DON'T?
Discharge paper included a letter saying I can return to work April 1st.
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
What is going on with Russia? Are they exempt from this?
Total collusion and meddling.
Post by: whYME on March 19, 2020, 11:14:45 AM
Discharge paper included a letter saying I can return to work April 1st.I'm not sure that answers my question.
Post by: The Metzuyan on March 19, 2020, 11:35:22 AM
Three of my kids have this. None of them had fever. 2 of the 3 had the cough before they lost their sense of smell/taste. The third never had the cough, but was the first to lose taste/smell.
Anyone know how long it takes for the taste/smell to return?
I've heard of slow improvement after 5 days...
Post by: zh cohen on March 19, 2020, 11:40:11 AM
What is going on with Russia? Are they exempt from this?
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-march-16-a69117
Basically the same as the rest of the world (except that we aren't having a vote on an amendment to allow the president to rule forever. Yet...)
Quote
President Vladimir Putin has ordered an April 22 nationwide vote on constitutional amendments, which would allow him to run again for president. He said the vote will be postponed if the coronavirus pandemic requires it.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 19, 2020, 11:43:45 AM
What is going on with Russia? Are they exempt from this?Theyre on 60% alcohol therapy...
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
Post by: NTorch on March 19, 2020, 11:56:38 AM
I've heard of slow improvement after 5 days...
5 days after onset of loss of taste/smell?
Post by: The Metzuyan on March 19, 2020, 12:22:27 PM
5 days after onset of loss of taste/smell?Yes
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 12:37:29 PM
So they think you DO have the Coronavirus or that you DON'T?
I'm not sure that answers my question.
Who are "they"?
Post by: TimT on March 19, 2020, 02:55:06 PM
They do keep 6 feet in breakrooms but other than that not much. My bet nothing will be done until someone tests positive.https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/amazon-warehouse-employee-has-coronavirus/608341/
They can take off anytime they want with no preapproval.
Prayers that your son stays safe.
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 02:58:19 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/amazon-warehouse-employee-has-coronavirus/608341/Thanks for the prayers.
Prayers that your son stays safe.
What would you tell your son?
Post by: zale on March 19, 2020, 04:23:24 PM
How can this possibly be true? How do we know that a million Chinese didn't die from this?
Post by: whYME on March 19, 2020, 04:27:00 PM
How do we know that a million Chinese didn't die from this?we don't.
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 04:53:35 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 05:06:52 PM
Post by: Luvisrael on March 19, 2020, 05:19:21 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 05:22:18 PM
@CountValentine https://www.foxnews.com/media/ron-desantis-florida-spring-breakers-party-overFINALLY!!! Late better than never but what was the governor thinking last week?
ETA: That coward is not closing the beaches. >:( >:( >:(
Post by: Chapshnell on March 19, 2020, 05:37:17 PM
FINALLY!!! Late better than never but what was the governor thinking last week?
ETA: That coward is not closing the beaches. >:( >:( >:(
No idea what he was thinking, complete stupidity to let teenagers run around like that
Post by: YitzyS on March 19, 2020, 05:47:48 PM
Poignant words of Gemara (Talmud, Bava Kama, 60b) instructing people to "stay inside" and to "lock your doors" when a plague is rampant in the city. pic.twitter.com/9osOQxY8Jp
— Yitzy Stern (@YitzyStern) March 19, 2020
Post by: ilherman on March 19, 2020, 06:34:29 PM
Has anyone seen Dr Fauci today?https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/tony-fauci-at-coronavirus-press-conferences.html
Post by: Dan on March 19, 2020, 06:38:29 PM
Post by: TimT on March 19, 2020, 08:48:31 PM
What would you tell your son?As a concerned parent Id probably beg him to not go to work. Id definitely make him wear a proper mask.
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 09:00:04 PM
HT: Bloomberg QuickTake.
Post by: flatbush guy on March 19, 2020, 09:04:08 PM
Seems that they were warned about what could happen while apparently POTUS was busy calming everybody.
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 09:08:43 PM
Post by: TimT on March 19, 2020, 09:12:11 PM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing?ref=homehttps://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1-6-million-of-stock-after-reassuring-public-about-coronavirus-preparedness
Seems that they were warned about what could happen while apparently POTUS was busy calming everybody.
Post by: aygart on March 19, 2020, 09:14:09 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-family-3-deaths-4-hospitalized-coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 19, 2020, 09:34:30 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 09:36:09 PM
So sad
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-family-3-deaths-4-hospitalized-coronavirus
Indeed. Could it be genetic predisposition? Related to ethnicity, making it higher risk?
Post by: aygart on March 19, 2020, 09:41:16 PM
Indeed. Could it be genetic predisposition? Related to ethnicity, making it higher risk?Maybe. They were older too.
Post by: yuneeq on March 19, 2020, 09:41:43 PM
Indeed. Could it be genetic predisposition? Related to ethnicity, making it higher risk?
Sounds like an Italian name. Perhaps Italians are more at risk based on what we're seeing?
Is it the pizza or the pasta I should stop eating?
Post by: ah giten on March 19, 2020, 09:42:00 PM
Maybe. They were older too.the ages are in the article
Post by: aygart on March 19, 2020, 09:42:17 PM
the ages are in the articleYes.
Post by: yuneeq on March 19, 2020, 09:44:05 PM
Maybe. They were older too.
Mom was 73, daugher 55, and the sons were 54 and 53.
Really not that old.
Post by: aygart on March 19, 2020, 09:46:20 PM
Mom was 73, daugher 55, and 2 sons were younger.Didn't see the 2 sons ages. Maybe I ran through too fast. Not olds but not young either.
Really not that old.
Post by: yuneeq on March 19, 2020, 09:49:00 PM
Didn't see the 2 sons ages. Maybe I ran through too fast. Not olds but not young either.
Found the younger sons age 53 in a diff article. Which leaves only 54 as the age of the oldest son.
Ages 50-59 is currently at 1.3% death rate. To have 3 siblings die in that age range means there's something more to it than just age.
Post by: etech0 on March 19, 2020, 09:49:18 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 19, 2020, 09:50:05 PM
Didn't see the 2 sons ages. Maybe I ran through too fast. Not olds but not young either.
Could be a case of זה וזה גורם. Virus + Genetic predisposition + age = fatal cocktail.
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 09:52:01 PM
Found the younger sons age 53 in a diff article. Which leaves only 54 as the age of the oldest son.Maybe a massive intake of the virus?
Ages 50-59 is currently at 1.3% death rate. To have 3 siblings die in that age range means there's something more to it than just age.
Post by: yuneeq on March 19, 2020, 09:58:00 PM
Maybe a massive intake of the virus?
I literally have no idea. But they should be studied closely - I think it will help others.
Post by: Euclid on March 19, 2020, 10:33:49 PM
Mom was 73, daugher 55, and the sons were 54 and 53.Many of the family in the picture look to be obese, so it's quite possible there's hypertension and/or diabetes.
Really not that old.
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 10:36:03 PM
Many of the family in the picture look to be obese, so it's quite possible there's hypertension and/or diabetes.This probably played a big part.
Post by: yitzgar on March 19, 2020, 11:24:27 PM
Post by: whYME on March 19, 2020, 11:35:54 PM
So, based on the way this has been progressing in the US, Italy and other places, how is it possible that China only had 80,000 cases? Especially since we had prior warning while they had much less. (Even it wasn't taken seriously at first by most). Something just doesn't add up. Even welding shut apartment buildings wouldn't be enough to keep their numbers so low. My suspicion is that the reports that crept out of 10's of thousands dead etc, were probably accurate, and Rachmana Litzlan we should be prepared for much worse than we can than we can imagine. (Especially since it is unlikely that we will be taking measures on the level of China)
(https://i.gyazo.com/bfa3dc34bbf8bac5b4a8f45bba2478b2.png)
Post by: yitzgar on March 19, 2020, 11:39:11 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/bfa3dc34bbf8bac5b4a8f45bba2478b2.png)Of course we knew they were lying, but just not by that much. At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they had hundreds of millions of cases....
Post by: Shmobaum on March 19, 2020, 11:43:53 PM
Of course we knew they were lying, but just not by that much. At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they had hundreds of millions of cases....Perhaps the conspiracy is that the journalists needed to find something to hock about post-impeachment, so they ate some bats...
Post by: yuneeq on March 19, 2020, 11:49:33 PM
So, based on the way this has been progressing in the US, Italy and other places, how is it possible that China only had 80,000 cases? Especially since we had prior warning while they had much less. (Even it wasn't taken seriously at first by most). Something just doesn't add up. Even welding shut apartment buildings wouldn't be enough to keep their numbers so low. My suspicion is that the reports that crept out of 10's of thousands dead etc, were probably accurate, and Rachmana Litzlan we should be prepared for much worse than we can than we can imagine. (Especially since it is unlikely that we will be taking measures on the level of China)
The numbers of everything are much higher than what they said. People were claiming China stats were useless because they werent counting everyone and its not serious. Yeh, youre right they werent counting everyone. There were so many deaths that occurred before they had a chance to get tested. And unless they got tested, they werent added to the official numbers. When you see a 4% fatality rate in China, and thats the official numbers, thats scary. You also have places like Zhejiang that somehow miraculously only had 1 death in the entire province with over 1000 cases. As if a random sampling of 1000+ people in a province will not produce plenty of 80 year olds and immuno-compromised individuals. We still havent found any other country with only 1 death when they had that many cases.
Post by: zale on March 20, 2020, 12:00:16 AM
So, based on the way this has been progressing in the US, Italy and other places, how is it possible that China only had 80,000 cases? Especially since we had prior warning while they had much less. (Even it wasn't taken seriously at first by most). Something just doesn't add up. Even welding shut apartment buildings wouldn't be enough to keep their numbers so low. My suspicion is that the reports that crept out of 10's of thousands dead etc, were probably accurate, and Rachmana Litzlan we should be prepared for much worse than we can than we can imagine. (Especially since it is unlikely that we will be taking measures on the level of China)
While, like you, I do suspect they are lying, there is also the possibility that they are better off controlling the virus than other countries.
First, they are an absolute dictatorship. If they say there is a lockdown, then there is a lockdown. The people listen or suffer the consequences. They aren't giving out shalach manos while the world burns.
Second, obesity in China is far lower than in other places around the world. In Italy, the deaths are almost exclusively in people with preexisting conditions.
While I don't believe them when they say there are NO cases, there is room to believe that they tamped down the virus.
Post by: Chapshnell on March 20, 2020, 12:01:24 AM
While, like you, I do suspect they are lying, there is also the possibility that they are better off controlling the virus than other countries.
First, they are an absolute dictatorship. If they say there is a lockdown, then there is a lockdown. The people listen or suffer the consequences. They aren't giving out shalach manos while the world burns.
Second, obesity in China is far lower than in other places around the world. In Italy, the deaths are almost exclusively in people with preexisting conditions.
While I don't believe them when they say there are NO cases, there is room to believe that they tamped down the virus.
Not drinking the kool-aid.
I wouldnt b surprised if the numbers are in the millions.
Post by: zale on March 20, 2020, 12:17:57 AM
Not drinking the kool-aid.There is no way they would be able to hide millions of deaths.
I wouldnt b surprised if the numbers are in the millions.
Post by: ad120 on March 20, 2020, 12:19:53 AM
There is no way they would be able to hide millions of deaths.Crematoriums. There are reports about about China burning live people during the virus.
Post by: ad120 on March 20, 2020, 12:20:38 AM
Can an American Transit via a Schengen country to connect to a flight to the UK? I have the same question about transiting via Canada.
Post by: Luvisrael on March 20, 2020, 12:21:13 AM
Crematoriums. There are reports about about China burning live people during the virus.holy cow!
Post by: zale on March 20, 2020, 12:22:58 AM
Crematoriums. There are reports about about China burning live people during the virus.Give me a break
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/26/facebook-posts/chinese-billionaire-floats-conspiracy-about-corona/
Post by: Jellybelly on March 20, 2020, 12:26:22 AM
Give me a breakIm assuming that billionaires not around anymore
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/26/facebook-posts/chinese-billionaire-floats-conspiracy-about-corona/
Post by: Luvisrael on March 20, 2020, 12:28:19 AM
Give me a breaknothing in your link proves otherwise. However horrifying this is, I wouldnt be shocked if it is happening.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/26/facebook-posts/chinese-billionaire-floats-conspiracy-about-corona/
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 07:11:12 AM
Not drinking the kool-aid.Wrong forum. >:(
Post by: israshot on March 20, 2020, 09:57:24 AM
Of course we knew they were lying, but just not by that much. At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they had hundreds of millions of cases....We are not in 1960 anymore. They can hide deaths numbers by a certain number, not 99%. 100s million means at least 1m deaths...
Post by: regolife on March 20, 2020, 10:23:56 AM
https://www.chase.com/digital/resources/coronavirus?jp_cmp=rb/CV/off/stayconnected/na
Anyone try calling Chase to see what they're offering to do?
Called Chase via the Sapphire Reserve line. Was told that Chase could "suppress" payments for anyone impacted but that interest would continue to accumulate. Way to go, Chase.
Any other data points?
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 10:25:27 AM
Called Chase via the Sapphire Reserve line. Was told that Chase could "suppress" payments for anyone impacted but that interest would continue to accumulate. Way to go, Chase.So in the long run you will be paying more. >:(
Post by: Luvisrael on March 20, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
Post by: ExGingi on March 20, 2020, 11:58:51 AM
Screenshot from Cuomo press conference announcing new rules in NY. Punishable and enforceable. Similar to EY.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 12:09:08 PM
Screenshot from Cuomo press conference announcing new rules in NY. Punishable and enforceable. Similar to EY.Will weddings continue?
Post by: ExGingi on March 20, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
Will weddings continue?
Drive through like we had in Crown Heights last night? IDK. Im assuming people will seek guidance.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 12:15:24 PM
Im assuming people will seek guidance.What part of Cuomo's statement don't they understand?
Post by: ah giten on March 20, 2020, 12:17:27 PM
Will weddings continue?aren't weddings essential?
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 12:18:22 PM
aren't weddings essential?H*ll no!
Post by: SSLPhD on March 20, 2020, 12:19:08 PM
Post by: ExGingi on March 20, 2020, 12:22:47 PM
What part of Cuomo's statement don't they understand?
Who is they? Which part of seek guidance dont you understand?
Ive seen creative weddings with total social distancing (dancing with ropes or poles, etc). Would you have a problem if people scheduled to get married seek guidance from NYS on their options?
Post by: ah giten on March 20, 2020, 12:23:02 PM
H*ll no!by religiuos people, there is a problempushing off a wedding. just saying.
I'm all in to limiting the wedding to 10 ppl, just as other essential stores.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 12:25:59 PM
by religiuos people, there is a problempushing off a wedding. just saying.I understand what you are saying. What everyone needs to realize we have separation of church and state. That doesn't mean ANY religion can do what they want based on their religion.
I'm all in to limiting the wedding to 10 ppl, just as other essential stores.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 12:27:21 PM
Who is they? Which part of seek guidance dont you understand?They is those who are having weddings. When you say "seek guidance" who are they seeking guidance from?
Post by: aygart on March 20, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
What kind of thinking is that?The thinking of someone who is understandably anxious. I don't think it was meant as complete yiush c"v but rather an expression of their being nervous. They would be crazy not to be.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 12:57:47 PM
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise and he will be saved from cancer without chemo (or with delayed treatment)?
What kind of thinking is that?
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 20, 2020, 01:01:48 PM
They is those who are having weddings. When you say "seek guidance" who are they seeking guidance from?From Rabbinic authorities as to how to perform a religious event while adhering to the law of the land & medical guidelines.
Post by: aygart on March 20, 2020, 01:03:39 PM
Bitachon.
Post by: ExGingi on March 20, 2020, 01:05:52 PM
The thinking of someone who is understandably anxious. I don't think it was meant as complete yiush c"v but rather an expression of their being nervous. They would be crazy not to be.
Concerned, anxious, are understood. But "doomed"? אפילו חרב חדה מונחת על צווארו של אדם אל ימנע עצמו מן הרחמים!
Post by: aygart on March 20, 2020, 01:10:41 PM
Concerned, anxious, are understood. But "doomed"? אפילו חרב חדה מונחת על צווארו של אדם אל ימנע עצמו מן הרחמים!Don't be so literal.
Post by: ExGingi on March 20, 2020, 01:16:54 PM
Don't be so literal.
Ok. There are just some words that aren't in my lexicon (except if said tongue-in-cheek or with a wink).
Bitachon.
Anyone feeling a little lacking or anxious, I highly recommend this (https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/2295026/jewish/A-Knowing-Heart-Parshas-Shmos.htm).
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 20, 2020, 01:36:00 PM
Ok. There are just some words that aren't in my lexicon
The you're doomed not to understand people
Post by: Lou Bob on March 20, 2020, 01:45:28 PM
Anyone else not able to smell or taste anything for the last week? 😱here's a good update.... I just started being able to smell a bit and was able to taste a bit as well. (feels more like an aftertaste, but it's a step up)
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 02:42:33 PM
Post by: Dan on March 20, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Why are twice as many men dying than women from the virus in Italy?I guess #ManColds really are deadly.
Post by: aygart on March 20, 2020, 03:37:33 PM
Why are twice as many men dying than women from the virus in Italy?Speculation could be smoking, worse general health/obesity etc.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 04:02:32 PM
Post by: aygart on March 20, 2020, 06:07:44 PM
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 20, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
This may be the first world wide "natural disaster" since the mabulLet's pray it shouldnt be as bad.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 06:13:28 PM
This may be the first world wide "natural disaster" since the mabulYou call this natural when China caused it?
Mabul?
Post by: Luvisrael on March 20, 2020, 06:15:53 PM
You call this natural when China caused it?google my friend
Mabul?
Post by: Jellybelly on March 20, 2020, 06:16:41 PM
You call this natural when China caused it?I thought you were studying Torah in your absence, I guess not
Mabul?
Post by: Dan on March 20, 2020, 06:17:12 PM
You call this natural when China caused it?Flood
Mabul?
Post by: ah giten on March 20, 2020, 06:20:13 PM
THE Floodftfy
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 06:22:42 PM
google my friendI did.
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 06:24:23 PM
I thought you were studying Torah in your absence, I guess notNot unless it was on the napkin that came with my Mojito's.
Post by: A3 on March 20, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 20, 2020, 06:42:11 PM
All hotels to close and Vacate guests in Miami Beach.Ouch!
Post by: TimT on March 21, 2020, 08:40:37 PM
Any deaths?First death
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1841677/israels-first-fatality-from-coronavirus-88-year-old-holocaust-survivor-aryeh-even.html
Post by: A3 on March 21, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
All hotels to close and Vacate guests in Miami Beach.Add the City of Miami and Miami-Dade. Only certain guests can stay.
Post by: CountValentine on March 21, 2020, 09:18:12 PM
Add the City of Miami and Miami-Dade. Only certain guests can stay.They should get a couple of cruise ships and let them party all they want until this is over. Sending them all back home will just spread it more.
Post by: ilherman on March 21, 2020, 09:39:39 PM
I personally know someone who was extremely not well, wasn't able to breathe on his own and got better after taking this drug for past few days.
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 21, 2020, 09:41:23 PM
Why is Dr Fauci so bureaucratic about the malaria drug? Why do we have to say that we have no cure now and it will take months until we have a REAL study? People are dying! Why not give them the chance to at least try something which has proven to work (just because it was not a stude where a pharmaceutical or other entity has made millions of dollars does not mean that its not a study)I heard they are only giving it to people who are critically ill. Don't know if source was reliable though.
I personally know someone who was extremely not well, wasn't able to breathe on his own and got better after taking this drug for past few days.
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 21, 2020, 09:44:46 PM
Why is Dr Fauci so bureaucratic about the malaria drug? Why do we have to say that we have no cure now and it will take months until we have a REAL study? People are dying! Why not give them the chance to at least try something which has proven to work (just because it was not a stude where a pharmaceutical or other entity has made millions of dollars does not mean that its not a study)
I personally know someone who was extremely not well, wasn't able to breathe on his own and got better after taking this drug for past few days.
has there been anyone credible who has reported this? There should be ample test cases to either prove or disprove....
Post by: knowitall on March 21, 2020, 09:47:29 PM
Why is Dr Fauci so bureaucratic about the malaria drug? Why do we have to say that we have no cure now and it will take months until we have a REAL study? People are dying! Why not give them the chance to at least try something which has proven to work (just because it was not a stude where a pharmaceutical or other entity has made millions of dollars does not mean that its not a study)+1000 Can someone please explain why death > taking an experimental drug?
I personally know someone who was extremely not well, wasn't able to breathe on his own and got better after taking this drug for past few days.
Post by: YitzyS on March 21, 2020, 09:52:37 PM
+1000 Can someone please explain why death > taking an experimental drug?I'm not a doctor, but I have one conjecture. Yes, it's worth it on all costs to give this to people who would otherwise die. But they may be worried to give it to everyone effected. Lets say, R'L, half of US's 330 million people contract the virus and are given the drug, and we later learn that it causes Alzheimer's or cancer ch'v or something of that nature, it could have a much more tragic effect, whereas otherwise most people would've just gotten better.
Post by: ah giten on March 21, 2020, 09:54:59 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I have one conjecture. Yes, it's worth it on all costs to give this to people who would otherwise die. But they may be worried to give it to everyone effected. Lets say, R'L, half of US's 330 million people contract the virus and are given the drug, and we later learn that it causes Alzheimer's or cancer ch'v or something of that nature, it could have a much more tragic effect, whereas otherwise most people would've just gotten better.of course, people that will eventually get out of it on there own should not be given this drug.
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 21, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I have one conjecture. Yes, it's worth it on all costs to give this to people who would otherwise die. But they may be worried to give it to everyone effected. Lets say, R'L, half of US's 330 million people contract the virus and are given the drug, and we later learn that it causes Alzheimer's or cancer ch'v or something of that nature, it could have a much more tragic effect, whereas otherwise most people would've just gotten better.
How would you quantify that risk, considering it has been an approved treatment of malaria for years?
Post by: YitzyS on March 21, 2020, 09:56:30 PM
of course, people that will eventually get out of it on there own should not be given this drug.It's possible that this distinction is not recognizable until it's too late...
Post by: CountValentine on March 21, 2020, 10:09:46 PM
Why is Dr Fauci so bureaucratic about the malaria drug?He isn't, he is doctor that believes in science.
What if it seems to work and then it is used on a mass scale. Then a year later all these nasty side effects show up?
Post by: ah giten on March 21, 2020, 10:11:56 PM
He isn't, he is doctor that believes in science.should be given as last resort option.
What if it seems to work and then it is used on a mass scale. Then a year later all these nasty side effects show up?
Post by: Iz on March 21, 2020, 10:12:13 PM
He isn't, he is doctor that believes in science.
What if it seems to work and then it is used on a mass scale. Then a year later all these nasty side effects show up?
it has been an approved treatment of malaria for years
Post by: CountValentine on March 21, 2020, 10:13:57 PM
should be given as last resort option....and IIRC he agrees. The issue is what if it works? Do you then give on a mass scale or do a controlled study first?
Post by: ar on March 21, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I have one conjecture. Yes, it's worth it on all costs to give this to people who would otherwise die. But they may be worried to give it to everyone effected. Lets say, R'L, half of US's 330 million people contract the virus and are given the drug, and we later learn that it causes Alzheimer's or cancer ch'v or something of that nature, it could have a much more tragic effect, whereas otherwise most people would've just gotten better.
This drug is around for many years... so the side effect stats are already there
Dont see why this shouldn't be given
Please guys, stay home and keep safe. I know a few ppl in the hospital from this
Post by: CountValentine on March 21, 2020, 10:15:41 PM
This drug is around for many years... so the side effect stats are already thereAFAIK the dosage is not the same and it will also be tried in conjunction with other drugs.
Post by: ah giten on March 21, 2020, 10:21:05 PM
...and IIRC he agrees. The issue is what if it works? Do you then give on a mass scale or do a controlled study first?shouldn't it be given as an option to the patient, or family?
Make them sign for it, just like other tests and procedures.
Post by: CountValentine on March 21, 2020, 10:33:50 PM
shouldn't it be given as an option to the patient, or family?Above my pay grade.
Make them sign for it, just like other tests and procedures.
Post by: etech0 on March 21, 2020, 10:34:14 PM
Post by: ilherman on March 21, 2020, 10:41:23 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I have one conjecture. Yes, it's worth it on all costs to give this to people who would otherwise die. But they may be worried to give it to everyone effected. Lets say, R'L, half of US's 330 million people contract the virus and are given the drug, and we later learn that it causes Alzheimer's or cancer ch'v or something of that nature, it could have a much more tragic effect, whereas otherwise most people would've just gotten better.No one worries about that. It's been used for years and known to be safe.
Post by: CountValentine on March 21, 2020, 10:44:19 PM
No one worries about that. It's been used for years and known to be safe.Do you understand a drug could be safe to treat one condition does not mean it is safe for another condition?
Post by: yuneeq on March 21, 2020, 10:57:41 PM
This drug is around for many years... so the side effect stats are already there
This is the reason it was approved so quickly (with limited use) without any studies for corona patients.
Still needs to be determined how people with corona react to it.
Post by: ad120 on March 21, 2020, 11:04:53 PM
Post by: michael on March 21, 2020, 11:21:36 PM
Post by: ilherman on March 21, 2020, 11:36:23 PM
This is the reason it was approved so quickly (with limited use) without any studies for corona patients.Where do you see that it was approved?
Still needs to be determined how people with corona react to it.
Post by: YitzyS on March 21, 2020, 11:38:17 PM
URGENT VIDEO: Dr. Zev Zelenko in video to President Trump: FDA-approved drug for coronavirus is working; Initiate treatment in outpatient setting - https://t.co/7p6PN8xg1B
— The Lakewood Scoop (@LakewoodScoop) March 22, 2020
Post by: yesitsme on March 22, 2020, 01:47:38 AM
Post by: shapsam on March 22, 2020, 03:11:33 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing.html#click=https://t.co/BEADbpMLLz
Post by: Luvtotravel on March 22, 2020, 04:04:03 AM
Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?id love to hear some takes on this
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing.html#click=https://t.co/BEADbpMLLz
Post by: yuneeq on March 22, 2020, 07:43:18 AM
id love to hear some takes on this
Young and healthy people are flooding the ICUs. Theyre also infecting doctors and nurses, older people and unhealthy people. Yes we can tell the elderly to stay away. But its not enough. No one is allowed to get sick from any illness right now, due to overwhelmed ICUs. HCPs live at home and have children, and will get infected at a sickening pace due to the lack of foresight. Perhaps they infect the most vulnerable, the elderly and the sick, by the time symptoms show its already too late. Welcome to LifeCare in Kirkland WA on a national level.
Post by: yuneeq on March 22, 2020, 08:37:23 AM
Over 80k confirmed cases
https://covid19info.live/
Italy, Iran, South Korea all on their way to be China 2.0.
Interesting to look back at this a month later. Italy (322 cases on 2/25) and Iran turned out to be devastating while South Korea (977 cases) is already in a S curve, showing that they effectively have it contained. The difference an effective response can make.
Post by: CountValentine on March 22, 2020, 11:09:19 AM
Post by: ExGingi on March 22, 2020, 12:33:01 PM
Interesting to look back at this a month later. Italy (322 cases on 2/25) and Iran turned out to be devastating while South Korea (977 cases) is already in a S curve, showing that they effectively have it contained. The difference an effective response can make.
Video going around on Whatsapp of a building being welded shut. Can't confirm veracity, I don't understand Farsi.
Post by: CountValentine on March 22, 2020, 12:37:08 PM
Post by: cgr on March 22, 2020, 01:39:20 PM
Please share with as many people as possible, so we can help each other out during this crisis!
http://chaiplus1.com/
Post by: S209 on March 22, 2020, 01:41:43 PM
I created a site for all financial assistance available during this difficult time. This is for both individuals and businesses (geared primarily to NYC/NYS, but has other stuff as well)Thank you, it looks like a great resource
Please share with as many people as possible, so we can help each other out during this crisis!
http://chaiplus1.com/
Post by: Joel on March 22, 2020, 02:07:34 PM
I created a site for all financial assistance available during this difficult time. This is for both individuals and businesses (geared primarily to NYC/NYS, but has other stuff as well)Thanks!
Please share with as many people as possible, so we can help each other out during this crisis!
http://chaiplus1.com/
Coffee is cute but fix the link. It gives your name away
Post by: yuneeq on March 22, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Must read
Post by: cgr on March 22, 2020, 02:27:49 PM
Thanks!Thanks! Fixed
Coffee is cute but fix the link. It gives your name away
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 03:11:23 PM
Where do you see that it was approved?
It wasnt approved, but there is a compassionate-use exception that allows doctors to prescribe an approved drug to treat a (gravely ill?) patient with a condition other than the one the drug is approved for treatment of. Something like that.
I know someone whos been on Chloroquine since Friday, May he have a full and speedy recovery.
Post by: YitzyS on March 22, 2020, 03:15:54 PM
I am writing this tweet as a plea for help. I am a cardiac electrophysiologisit and I was diagnosed with the covid 19 virus Thursday 9 days ago. treated with Hydroxychloroquine and zinc for 5 days. My respiratory status worsened and ct showed diffuse ground glass opacity.
— jesse yisachar greenberg (@JesseYisachar) March 21, 2020
Im on the front lines in NYC and have been on hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin but am progressing. While there is some hope for these meds we need to make trial drugs or compassionate use more accessible now"
— jesse yisachar greenberg (@JesseYisachar) March 21, 2020
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 03:17:48 PM
URGENT VIDEO: Dr. Zev Zelenko in video to President Trump: FDA-approved drug for coronavirus is working; Initiate treatment in outpatient setting - https://t.co/7p6PN8xg1B
— The Lakewood Scoop (@LakewoodScoop) March 22, 2020
This guy seems to pull numbers out of his hat. In a previous video he extrapolated that as much as 90% of the Orthodox community in Rockland county is infected, or something to that affect.
He also says hes prescribed this to 100s of patients but he doesnt say anything about their demographics, the extent of their symptoms, how long its been that theyre on the drug, or how they are doing. More data would be really interesting to see.
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 03:18:56 PM
I am writing this tweet as a plea for help. I am a cardiac electrophysiologisit and I was diagnosed with the covid 19 virus Thursday 9 days ago. treated with Hydroxychloroquine and zinc for 5 days. My respiratory status worsened and ct showed diffuse ground glass opacity.
— jesse yisachar greenberg (@JesseYisachar) March 21, 2020
What does diffuse ground glass opacity mean?
Post by: Luvisrael on March 22, 2020, 03:19:14 PM
Korea finished developing the 10 minute Covid-19 diagnostic kit and is now ramping up production. They plan to export 300.000 test-kits per week - pic.twitter.com/DpJCph9RT7
— Florian Witulski (@vaitor) March 21, 2020
Post by: ExGingi on March 22, 2020, 03:20:06 PM
Post by: aygart on March 22, 2020, 03:20:37 PM
What does diffuse ground glass opacity mean?More importantly, is it something which would be a side effect of the drug or simply that it didn't help him?
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 03:23:26 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/vaitor/status/1241337295606657033/photo/1
300k/week sometime on the future is nothing. The world needs like 5m+/week of these now, not at some undetermined point in the future. The good news is there are other testing options that are ramping up production and the US should have 1m/week+ in testing capacity by the end of March.
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 03:25:19 PM
More importantly, is it something which would be a side effect of the drug or simply that it didn't help him?
This is with in regular circumstances we have double-blind controlled studies where a control group receives a placebo, so we have what to compare against in a large sample size.
Post by: ExGingi on March 22, 2020, 03:31:41 PM
Korea finished developing the 10 minute Covid-19 diagnostic kit and is now ramping up production. They plan to export 300.000 test-kits per week - pic.twitter.com/DpJCph9RT7
— Florian Witulski (@vaitor) March 21, 2020
And:
Bravo!
— Erik Solheim (@ErikSolheim) March 21, 2020
South Korea 🇰🇷 has set up ‘phone booths’ that can test people for the coronavirus in just 7 minutes. The country has earned praise for its mass testing amid the Covid19 pandemic.
pic.twitter.com/lQ47UPdiaz
Post by: flyingace on March 22, 2020, 04:01:54 PM
Yisachar Chaim ben Esther Malka.I am writing this tweet as a plea for help. I am a cardiac electrophysiologisit and I was diagnosed with the covid 19 virus Thursday 9 days ago. treated with Hydroxychloroquine and zinc for 5 days. My respiratory status worsened and ct showed diffuse ground glass opacity.
— jesse yisachar greenberg (@JesseYisachar) March 21, 2020Im on the front lines in NYC and have been on hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin but am progressing. While there is some hope for these meds we need to make trial drugs or compassionate use more accessible now"
— jesse yisachar greenberg (@JesseYisachar) March 21, 2020
Post by: flatbush guy on March 22, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
This guy seems to pull numbers out of his hat. In a previous video he extrapolated that as much as 90% of the Orthodox community in Rockland county is infected, or something to that affect.He himself has been doing tele medicine, since he wisely quarantined himself and family in monsey, before the epidemic became so widespread.
He also says hes prescribed this to 100s of patients but he doesnt say anything about their demographics, the extent of their symptoms, how long its been that theyre on the drug, or how they are doing. More data would be really interesting to see.
I have no idea how he extrapolated a 90% rate in kiryas joel, in one of his videos based on 14 tests with 9 positives.
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 04:13:24 PM
I have no idea how he extrapolated a 90% rate in kiryas joel, in one of his videos based on 14 tests with 9 positives.
Glad Im not the only one who heard it and thought its pulling it out of his @$$. You quoted it more accurately than me.
Post by: YitzyS on March 22, 2020, 04:14:04 PM
He himself has been doing tele medicine, since he wisely quarantined himself and family in monsey, before the epidemic became so widespread.It could be he knew that those 9 people exposed the whole community.
I have no idea how he extrapolated a 90% rate in kiryas joel, in one of his videos based on 14 tests with 9 positives.
Post by: aygart on March 22, 2020, 04:14:58 PM
It could be he knew that those 9 people exposed the whole community.Is the Rebbe one of them? He could have easoily exposed the entire community.
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 04:15:19 PM
And:Bravo!
— Erik Solheim (@ErikSolheim) March 21, 2020
South Korea 🇰🇷 has set up ‘phone booths’ that can test people for the coronavirus in just 7 minutes. The country has earned praise for its mass testing amid the Covid19 pandemic.
pic.twitter.com/lQ47UPdiaz
Great, all I need is a flight to Seoul to try this 😝
Post by: YitzyS on March 22, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Is the Rebbe one of them? He could have easoily exposed the entire community.His test came back after that video was released. But some of his close people tested positive earlier.
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 04:17:58 PM
It could be he knew that those 9 people exposed the whole community.
Impossible to know that. He would have to know when they got infected, when theyd be most likely to shed, everywhere they went when they were spreading it, and who else was there and how close they got to the 9 vectors. Impossible.
Post by: AsherO on March 22, 2020, 04:18:34 PM
His test came back after that video was released. But some of his close people tested positive earlier.
Hope youre joking.
Post by: hvaces42 on March 22, 2020, 04:20:38 PM
What does diffuse ground glass opacity mean?Its a way of describing a certain type of pneumonia.
More importantly, is it something which would be a side effect of the drug or simply that it didn't help him?
More importantly, is it something which would be a side effect of the drug or simply that it didn't help him?No Its just a description of where his pneumonia is.
Many who know him are saying its wasnt him who tweeted because it was on shabbos. The name Chaim was added. As of this afternoon he is on a Bi-Pap machine.
Post by: CountValentine on March 22, 2020, 04:23:11 PM