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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 Discussion Board => Topic started by: Dan on March 04, 2020, 05:58:27 PM

Title: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 04, 2020, 05:58:27 PM
COVID-19 is expected to peak around Pesach time.

Were you planning on going to a program?
Has your program cancelled?
Will you cancel your program plans?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 04, 2020, 06:08:37 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/passover-in-the-time-of-coronavirus-cancellations-mount-at-kosher-resorts
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yo ssi on March 04, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
COVID-19 is expected to peak around Pesach time.

Where is the source for that?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: free123cc on March 05, 2020, 12:10:05 PM
am planning on going with in laws for second half, however im expecting in 2 weeks and kinda freeked out about bringing a 3 week old baby to a hotel which in this case will probably be a petri dish of the virus.

personally i think that the hotels will end up canceling by then, even the ones in the usa. maybe even will be forced by local goverments to cancel to try to not spread it as much
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 05, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
am planning on going with in laws for second half, however im expecting in 2 weeks and kinda freeked out about bringing a 3 week old baby to a hotel which in this case will probably be a petri dish of the virus.

personally i think that the hotels will end up canceling by then, even the ones in the usa. maybe even will be forced by local goverments to cancel to try to not spread it as much
I wouldn't travel with a 3 week old even without corovavirus...
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 05, 2020, 12:15:53 PM
I wouldn't travel with a 3 week old even without corovavirus...
Not always practical to make pesach within 3 weeks of having a baby.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: avromie7 on March 05, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
am planning on going with in laws for second half, however im expecting in 2 weeks and kinda freeked out about bringing a 3 week old baby to a hotel which in this case will probably be a petri dish of the virus.

personally i think that the hotels will end up canceling by then, even the ones in the usa. maybe even will be forced by local goverments to cancel to try to not spread it as much
Young children are the least at risk. There are no known deaths in children under 10. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: pbf on March 05, 2020, 12:33:23 PM
COVID-19 is expected to peak around Pesach time.

Were you planning on going to a program?
Has your program cancelled?
Will you cancel your program plans?

I was about to book a program in Spain but have reconsidered. I don't love the idea of traveling at all, especially to Europe.
I will keep an eye on the situation closer to Pesach but I think I am out for now.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: free123cc on March 05, 2020, 01:33:59 PM
I wouldn't travel with a 3 week old even without corovavirus...

lol was "traveling" from lakewood to fairfield nj.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Naftuli19 on March 05, 2020, 01:52:54 PM
I wouldn't travel with a 3 week old even without corovavirus...
I was 5 days old the 1st time i flew been happy since :D :D
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 05, 2020, 02:06:41 PM
I was 5 days old the 1st time i flew been happy since :D :D
Not saying anything bad will happen.
I just don't bring my kids out in public until they're a couple months old and can be vaccinated, etc.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: danR on March 05, 2020, 03:21:10 PM
People need to decide if they are going to go to Pesach Program and risk the ~3% death rate or have to make Pesach at home

Think most people will take their chances :-)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 05, 2020, 03:44:53 PM
People need to decide if they are going to go to Pesach Program and risk the ~3% death rate or have to make Pesach at home

Think most people will take their chances :-)
Whether or not you go with your in laws changes the math a bit.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 05, 2020, 03:46:47 PM
Whether or not you go with your in laws changes the math a bit.
If your home for pesach - Chag kosher visameach!

If your by your in-laws - Chag kosher! (It prob won't be sameach)

If your by a hotel - Chag sameach! (It prob won't be kosher)

If your at a hotel with your in-laws - Chag!
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yo ssi on March 05, 2020, 03:48:43 PM

LOL :)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: pomy100 on March 05, 2020, 03:56:31 PM

LOL
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Moshe123 on March 05, 2020, 06:47:37 PM
People should learn how to make Pesach. It's totally foreseeable that they are going to eventually be canceled all over.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yard sale on March 05, 2020, 07:21:54 PM
Sad to seee people plans impacted. Just fantasyland but  imagine if someone would start a campaign where Jews worldwide would donate the money they would have otherwise spent on flights and pesach hotels to yeshivos, aniyim, kiruv, or any other tzorech mitzvah that speaks to them. It could easily add up to half a billion dollars.  Imagine the good it could accomplish and the enormous impact it would have upon  world Jewry....
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yammer on March 05, 2020, 07:33:20 PM
People should learn how to make Pesach. It's totally foreseeable that they are going to eventually be canceled all over.
Many people know how to make Pesach, it's just a matter of wanting to..
Sad to seee people plans impacted. Just fantasyland but  imagine if someone would start a campaign where Jews worldwide would donate the money they would have otherwise spent on flights and pesach hotels to yeshivos, aniyim, kiruv, or any other tzorech mitzvah that speaks to them. It could easily add up to half a billion dollars.  Imagine the good it could accomplish and the enormous impact it would have upon  world Jewry....
Let's not be judgmental about other people. You have no way of knowing what they donate to Charity.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yard sale on March 05, 2020, 07:41:34 PM
Many people know how to make Pesach, it's just a matter of wanting to..Let's not be judgmental about other people. You have no way of knowing what they donate to Charity.

Most probably give their share and beyond. Not a judgment about the money they do spend just a fantasy about the money that is probably not going to be spent this year. Just in my neighborhood there are several people I know of who are in desperate need of therapy, two need a rehab program, several have houses undergoing foreclosure, half a dozen widows with large families, schools that need resources for weaker students. That’s just locally.  Hundreds of thousands of unaffiliated Jews who would be receptive to authentic yiddishkeit but there is a lack of resources to reach out to them; and the list goes on. I’m sure in Israel the needs are a lot more acute. Tzorchei amcha merubim
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 05, 2020, 08:20:33 PM
People should learn how to make Pesach. It's totally foreseeable that they are going to eventually be canceled all over.
many people rely on these programs for parnasa but are fully capable of making pesach. But I agree that they should have a backup. I most certainly am planning a backup plan
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yard sale on March 05, 2020, 08:33:48 PM
Maybe a good time for caterers to consider offering home based options with waiter service etc?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: grodnoking on March 05, 2020, 09:31:02 PM
I'll just leave this here, in case your pesach program gets cancelled.

House in North Miami Beach available for
Pesach

• 4 bedrooms.
• 3 full bathrooms.
• pool
• Walking distance to the shuls and the canal.

Dates from april 7th (evening) - april 19th

5,000 plus cleaning fee

Pm me for details and pictures.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yammer on March 06, 2020, 02:44:30 AM
Most probably give their share and beyond. Not a judgment about the money they do spend just a fantasy about the money that is probably not going to be spent this year. Just in my neighborhood there are several people I know of who are in desperate need of therapy, two need a rehab program, several have houses undergoing foreclosure, half a dozen widows with large families, schools that need resources for weaker students. That’s just locally.  Hundreds of thousands of unaffiliated Jews who would be receptive to authentic yiddishkeit but there is a lack of resources to reach out to them; and the list goes on. I’m sure in Israel the needs are a lot more acute. Tzorchei amcha merubim
Maybe a good time for caterers to consider offering home based options with waiter service etc?
I know someone that's been doing this for years.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: LarryEngelhart on March 06, 2020, 10:10:19 AM
With all the meetings, conferences, and conventions being cancelled - it seems inevitable (sadly) that the Pesach programs will also get cancelled.  We are scheduled to be in Israel, but they are limiting events to 100 people or less, smaller than the number of people in the dining room or at a minyan. I assume that many Israelis will pass on the opportunity to be with unkown masses of locals and foreigners without knowing who they are or where they've been.  It's sad & tragic - but it seems likely.  People are even worndering whether ElAl will still be flying as Pesach gets closer.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: whYME on March 06, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
Not a Pesach program, but I just heard JLI's Israel trip (https://www.landandspirit.org/) was cancelled.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Moshe123 on March 06, 2020, 03:47:12 PM
There is a fierce debate within the highest echelons of the Israeli government, whether to ban Americans from entering, from next week. Might happen next week.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: snagger on March 06, 2020, 03:50:16 PM
There is a fierce debate within the highest echelons of the Israeli government, whether to ban Americans from entering, from next week. Might happen next week.
source?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: etech0 on March 06, 2020, 03:54:48 PM
source?
+1
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 06, 2020, 04:08:13 PM
Maybe a good time for caterers to consider offering home based options with waiter service etc?
They always offer
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: iambarry on March 08, 2020, 03:35:44 AM
source?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-officials-said-disputed-over-quarantine-for-arrivals-from-us/
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 08, 2020, 09:24:46 AM
(https://gyazo.com/c9223fffc86d141c03e63f0e803c3421.jpg)

So does this cause people to realize that the "Non Gebrochts" claim is as valid and as founded as the "No Corona" claim. Or will this prove again that עולם גולם?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Ergel on March 08, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
(https://gyazo.com/c9223fffc86d141c03e63f0e803c3421.jpg)

So does this cause people to realize that the "Non Gebrochts" claim is as valid as as founded as the "No Corona" claim. Or will this prove again that עולם גולם?
That's photoshopped, right?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 08, 2020, 09:29:08 AM
That's photoshopped, right?
Wrong. In the news section of this past weekend Hebrew Mishpacha.


(https://gyazo.com/a20d01faab583e6d502ef5bd5df15b49.jpg)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Ergel on March 08, 2020, 09:29:56 AM
Wrong. In the news section of this past weekend Hebrew Mishpacha.
THAT. IS. CRAZY.
Paging @yuneeq
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yuneeq on March 08, 2020, 09:33:35 AM
THAT. IS. CRAZY.
Paging @yuneeq

What can I do about it...Switzerland has 268 confirmed cases and rapidly growing.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: gingyguy on March 08, 2020, 09:35:32 AM
Wrong. In the news section of this past weekend Hebrew Mishpacha.


(https://gyazo.com/a20d01faab583e6d502ef5bd5df15b49.jpg)
Its almost kedai to get corona there, just to be able to sue the gebrochts out of them!!
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: tmendy226 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
There is a fierce debate within the highest echelons of the Israeli government, whether to ban Americans from entering, from next week. Might happen next week.

https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1086002
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: danR on March 08, 2020, 10:26:15 AM
Maybe there mean no corona beer???  :-)

Amazing
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Moshe123 on March 08, 2020, 10:27:35 AM
https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1086002

ראש הממשלה בנימין נתניהו שוחח בימים האחרונים עם סגן נשיא ארצות הברית, מייק פנס, האחראי על התמודדות התפרצות הקורונה במדינה, ודן עמו באפשרות שישראל תורה על בידוד ביתי לשבים מארצות הברית. כך אמר היום (ראשון) גורם ישראלי בכיר
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yfr bachur on March 09, 2020, 01:59:35 PM
Wrong. In the news section of this past weekend Hebrew Mishpacha.


(https://gyazo.com/a20d01faab583e6d502ef5bd5df15b49.jpg)

No one told them that a virus is not bacteria???
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 10, 2020, 08:27:43 AM
No one told them that a virus is not bacteria???

That's either not the only thing they are unaware of, or not the only thing they overlook for marketing purposes.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: LarryEngelhart on March 10, 2020, 09:08:47 AM
We were scheduled to have a family Pesach in israel at a program on a kibbutz.
Obviously with ElAl cancelling flights and the new 14-day quarantine requirement - that is no longer possible.
As unlikely as it sounds, the tour operator claims it's "business as usual" and the program will go on as planned.
In my opinion - Not Likely. 
Even israelis won't want to be in crowds of strangers, confined for meals and services.
Accordingly, the operators don't want to refund our money - only give credits for some future travel.
Any ideas on how to proceed with them to get our money back?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 10, 2020, 09:48:54 AM
Would you work at a pesach program if it was a significant portion of your income? Would you classify it as essential travel?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 12, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1839505/breaking-ny-bans-all-gatherings-of-500-people-nj-suggests-canceling-any-event-with-more-than-250.html
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: knowitall on March 12, 2020, 06:06:04 PM
As of now I'm planning on going to the pesach hotel outside CLE, we'll see what happens.

I can imagine an enormous amount of machlokes in the hotel/orlando/airbnb space. Many people have non-refundable reservations or reservations without any clear contract regarding cancellations.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 12, 2020, 06:11:48 PM
As of now I'm planning on going to the pesach hotel outside CLE, we'll see what happens.

I can imagine an enormous amount of machlokes in the hotel/orlando/airbnb space. Many people have non-refundable reservations or reservations without any clear contract regarding cancellations.
Going to be a disaster.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2020, 06:12:21 PM
Any chance that NYS will allow any programs to go ahead? I highly doubt it. Israel started by banning large numbers, and came down to 100+ at this point. I don't see how NYS doesn't follow that trajectory. I really hope the organizers have some insurance or backup to not endure a total financial wipeout (though I would assume there's a chain to suffer consequences, not everything stops at the organizers).
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yo ssi on March 12, 2020, 06:14:21 PM
Going to be a disaster.
Nothing is going to be a disaster, it's all a matter of prospective, and up to your attitude!
Don't forget a holy man once said: "טראכט גוט וועט זיין גוט"
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: flatbush guy on March 12, 2020, 07:32:39 PM
What can I do about it...Switzerland has 268 confirmed cases and rapidly growing.
Switzerland   854   6   4   
unfortunately, the above are the current numbers for sick in Switzerland, with 6 deceased
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
Switzerland   854   6   4   
unfortunately, the above are the current numbers for sick in Switzerland, with 6 deceased

Yet

(https://gyazo.com/c9223fffc86d141c03e63f0e803c3421.jpg)

I wonder if they'll put some kind of an ad this week announcing closure or some other measures, or they're just conserving cash at this point.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 12, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
Anyone who believes there will be a Pesach program in US or Europe is being delusional.

Ironically Thailand may be one of the only programs still going.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 12, 2020, 07:38:24 PM
Ironically Thailand may be one of the only programs still going.

Source?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 12, 2020, 08:07:51 PM
Source?
Very few cases in Thailand.

Confirmed cases have doubled in the last 17 days
From 35 cases on 23 February to 70 cases on 11 March

United States   
Confirmed cases have doubled in the last 2 days
From 472 cases on 9 March to 987 cases on 11 March

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#growth-of-cases-how-long-did-it-take-for-the-number-of-confirmed-cases-to-double
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 08:32:48 PM
A large portion of those in local programs are elderly people who are much more at risk but also may be unable to make pesach themselves.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 12, 2020, 09:02:11 PM
A large portion of those in local programs are elderly people who are much more at risk but also may be unable to make pesach themselves.

That’s what children are for.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 12, 2020, 09:18:26 PM
That’s what children are for.
Thats only for the ones who have children to help them out. Not everyone is as lucky
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ShmuliT on March 12, 2020, 11:00:52 PM
Have flights booked in 3 weeks to Australia for Pesach.
Whats the speculation on international flight travel?
Any speculation how friendly USA and Aus will be at that stage?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 11:03:12 PM
Have flights booked in 3 weeks to Australia for Pesach.
Whats the speculation on international flight travel?
Any speculation how friendly USA and Aus will be at that stage?
Why would you risk traveling?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 12, 2020, 11:20:45 PM
Have flights booked in 3 weeks to Australia for Pesach.
Whats the speculation on international flight travel?
Any speculation how friendly USA and Aus will be at that stage?

The best advice I can give you is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Nobody, not even so-called "experts" knows what will happen in 3 weeks. It could get much worse, or it can blow over. Some suggest that warmer temperatures can kill off the virus in the same way it kills off the flu, while others suggest that this is not like the flu.

Again, prepare to make Pesach here, and if you are lucky, the world may be back to normal in three weeks. 
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 11:22:14 PM
Nobody, not even so-called "experts" knows what will happen in 3 weeks. It could get much worse, or it can blow over.
What expert has said that in three weeks it can blow over?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 12, 2020, 11:23:39 PM
What expert has said that in three weeks it can blow over?

None. Did I say that? I only said that there is speculation about warmer temperatures killing off viruses.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 11:26:34 PM
None. Did I say that? I only said that there is speculation about warmer temperatures killing off viruses.
So you are saying it can blow over?
The experts all say in the coming weeks it will be getting worse.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 12, 2020, 11:30:04 PM
So you are saying it can blow over?
The experts all say in the coming weeks it will be getting worse.

I'm saying it can go either way. I have taken all precautions and follow all the expert advice from the CDC etc, but I still do believe that these experts don't know what the future looks like, as many will themselves admit. It could be that hundreds of thousands are already infected and it will continue to grow, or it could be that we were spared the brunt of it.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: CountValentine on March 12, 2020, 11:36:02 PM
I'm saying it can go either way.
My point is that is reckless to say. All things point to it getting worse in the coming weeks. All the experts agree on this.

Can it die off in the summer months? That is what the experts don't know. 
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 12, 2020, 11:42:11 PM
So you are saying it can blow over?
The experts all say in the coming weeks it will be getting worse.
*it is likely to be getting worse.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yammer on March 13, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Why would you risk traveling?
If we're expecting 50% of the US population to get the virus anyhow, them ppl can technically start traveling... The question is if they will have quarantine though..
The best advice I can give you is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Nobody, not even so-called "experts" knows what will happen in 3 weeks. It could get much worse, or it can blow over. Some suggest that warmer temperatures can kill off the virus in the same way it kills off the flu, while others suggest that this is not like the flu.

Again, prepare to make Pesach here, and if you are lucky, the world may be back to normal in three weeks.
Cases in Florida & California etc seem to indicate that it's not the case..
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yard sale on March 13, 2020, 03:56:48 AM
https://www.totallyjewishtravel.com/passover_resorts/passover-programs-2020-confirmed?fbclid=IwAR08U77EbmTVG6U0GjfrqgWLbZcjLd_zzmqBeigtWg8p0o-aL85gt366nhE

Sounds like Whistler thinks they are still taking place. Anyone think the Kushners show up this year?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Ergel on March 13, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
As of now I'm planning on going to the pesach hotel outside CLE, we'll see what happens.

I can imagine an enormous amount of machlokes in the hotel/orlando/airbnb space. Many people have non-refundable reservations or reservations without any clear contract regarding cancellations.
I had a clear contract with a tenant coming from America for Pesach with a non-refundable deposit of ~25%. I am letting him cancel bsimcha.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: eis517 on March 13, 2020, 08:59:45 AM
I had a clear contract with a tenant coming from America for Pesach with a non-refundable deposit of ~25%. I am letting him cancel bsimcha.

You are a mentch!
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: cmey on March 13, 2020, 10:21:41 AM
https://www.totallyjewishtravel.com/passover_resorts/passover-programs-2020-confirmed?fbclid=IwAR08U77EbmTVG6U0GjfrqgWLbZcjLd_zzmqBeigtWg8p0o-aL85gt366nhE

Sounds like Whistler thinks they are still taking place. Anyone think the Kushners show up this year?

According  to this as of yesterday at least 75 Pesach Programs were confirming that they are still on. That’s bound to change.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2020, 11:09:59 AM
According  to this as of yesterday at least 75 Pesach Programs were confirming that they are still on. That’s bound to change.

I guess many are still in denial.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Afrages6 on March 13, 2020, 11:18:04 AM
I guess many are still in denial.
Or they don’t really have a choice but to try and continue until the last possible moment. To back out now would bankrupt a lot of these program operators.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2020, 12:17:48 PM
I guess many are still in denial.

A certain bochur called contacted me yesterday about getting cancel anytime insurance for himself and his brother for a Pesach program. His (divorced) mother was going to come from overseas and spend Pesach with her sons. The program referred him to a certain travel agent to get the coverage, and as a friend he asked me about it.

He was skeptical on whether his mother would be able to come, and wanted to protect himself and his brother (that had paid a 25% deposit and the balance is due within two weeks). I told him that I think there is less than 50% chance of the program actually taking place, and that IMHO purchasing the insurance will do absolutely nothing for them as it will not cover anything directly or indirectly related to COVID-19. I told him that anything he fears about that might be actually be covered will be covered by a regular policy. I tried to turn his focus to the refund policies of the program rather than insurance policies.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yehudaa on March 13, 2020, 12:19:41 PM
I guess many are still in denial.

Or they know they're highly unlikely to operate but hope (know?) that they're better off financially if customers cancel on them than the opposite.

I'm not criticizing their decisions as anyone in that business is in a really tough spot right now and I can't imagine the hit they'll be taking because of this.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: CountValentine on March 13, 2020, 12:20:07 PM
Or they don’t really have a choice but to try and continue until the last possible moment. To back out now would bankrupt a lot of these program operators.
Then help out the operators but these all need to be canceled.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2020, 12:22:41 PM
Or they know they're highly unlikely to operate but hope (know?) that they're better off financially if customers cancel on them than the opposite.

I'm not criticizing their decisions as anyone in that business is in a really tough spot right now and I can't imagine the hit they'll be taking because of this.
They should be planning on contingency. Many of them are able to be offering a catering service to their customers possibly with arranging to have their homes set up for Pesach.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2020, 12:24:01 PM
Then help out the operators but these all need to be canceled.

That's what insurance is for, but I wonder how many operators carry insurance policies that would cover this. I think it's crazy if they don't as there are multiple disruptive reasons than can bring about massive cancellations.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 13, 2020, 12:49:17 PM


That's what insurance is for, but I wonder how many operators carry insurance policies that would cover this. I think it's crazy if they don't as there are multiple disruptive reasons than can bring about massive cancellations.

This is one of the reasons they are not canceling proactively. They are waiting for a legal reason to be covered by the insurance (like the max amount in Israel of 100 ppl and NYS 500 etc.)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: grodnoking on March 13, 2020, 12:51:01 PM

This is one of the reasons they are not canceling proactively. They are waiting for a legal reason to be covered by the insurance (like the max amount in Israel of 100 ppl and NYS 500 etc.)
So why are 500+ programs not canceled yet? Cuomo offered to shut anyone with over 500 people down if they want.
Edit: I guess they have to wait till later today for the rule to go in effect.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: avromie7 on March 13, 2020, 12:53:15 PM
So why are 500+ programs not canceled yet? Cuomo offered to shut anyone with over 500 people down if they want.
1) How many pesach programs are there in NY? Especially over 500 people. 2) Cuomo just announced this less than 24 hours ago.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 13, 2020, 12:53:50 PM
So why are 500+ programs not canceled yet? Cuomo offered to shut anyone with over 500 people down if they want.
Edit: I guess they have to wait till later today for the rule to go in effect.
Maybe you can rephrase your question to "how can they run a program illegally?"
Yes, they will officially cancel probably the beginning of next week regardless of insurance, but the insurance is a good incentive to wait for these legal measures.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: db23 on March 13, 2020, 02:13:54 PM
programs in florida?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2020, 02:15:41 PM
1) How many pesach programs are there in NY? Especially over 500 people. 2) Cuomo just announced this less than 24 hours ago.
Many.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 13, 2020, 02:19:17 PM
1) How many pesach programs are there in NY? Especially over 500 people. 2) Cuomo just announced this less than 24 hours ago.
It's getting worse. Most shuls in NY are closed this Shabbos already. Many schools across the country.

Anyone who believes there will be a Pesach program in US or Europe is being delusional.

Ironically Thailand may be one of the only programs still going.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 13, 2020, 03:12:05 PM
Many.
not so many. The ones that have confirmed that they are still planning on opening are Honors Haven and Hudson Valley. I don't think the Raleigh or Oppenheimers confirmed if they're opening or not. How many more programs in NYS do you know of?
NJ has a bunch and they still think they're opening....
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 13, 2020, 03:14:13 PM
It's getting worse. Most shuls in NY are closed this Shabbos already. Many schools across the country.
Many Boston shuls are closing though I find it odd that we've closed shuls before we closed in-store shopping which would seem to be much worse and a lower priority.
Boston schools sent out an email saying they'd follow what the public school system does which hasn't closed yet...
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 13, 2020, 03:15:02 PM
This is from yesterday
https://www.totallyjewishtravel.com/passover_resorts/passover-programs-2020-confirmed
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 13, 2020, 03:18:50 PM
NJ has a bunch and they still think they're opening....

NJ with only 29 cases, they don't see it yet the same way as NY. Although it just a matter of days until the numbers goes up there too. Again, they need a legal reason to be forced to cancel it.
The same way as Broadway shows needed Cuomo to claim their insurance.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 13, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
NJ with only 29 cases, they don't see it yet the same way as NY. Although it just a matter of days until the numbers goes up there too. Again, they need a legal reason to be forced to cancel it.
The same way as Broadway shows needed Cuomo to claim their insurance.
Almost no tests in NJ.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
not so many. The ones that have confirmed that they are still planning on opening are Honors Haven and Hudson Valley. I don't think the Raleigh or Oppenheimers confirmed if they're opening or not. How many more programs in NYS do you know of?
NJ has a bunch and they still think they're opening....
I meant in general not the ones "still opening"
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 13, 2020, 03:45:33 PM
I meant in general not the ones "still opening"
I understood. There aren't that many in NYS. Many more in CT and NJ
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yuneeq on March 13, 2020, 04:33:29 PM
NJ with only 29 cases, they don't see it yet the same way as NY. Although it just a matter of days until the numbers goes up there too. Again, they need a legal reason to be forced to cancel it.
The same way as Broadway shows needed Cuomo to claim their insurance.

50 in NJ
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Let3 on March 14, 2020, 09:45:11 PM
I have family that was supposed to go to Spain.
They canceled on the program, but as of now the program said they will still operate.
They said they already invested too much money that they cannot get back so it is not worth it for them to shut, rather keep whatever people they can get.
Not offering any deposits back (or credits for next year etc).
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zh cohen on March 14, 2020, 10:03:01 PM

I wonder if they'll put some kind of an ad this week announcing closure or some other measures, or they're just conserving cash at this point.

They ran the same ad this week (in the English Mishpacha)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 14, 2020, 10:16:59 PM
They ran the same ad this week (in the English Mishpacha)

I guess English Mishpacha is on a 1 week delay. This week Hebrew Mishpacha had only 2 pages of Pesach Program ads.

With the new regulations I guess they should all realize that none are happening.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 14, 2020, 11:15:58 PM
I guess English Mishpacha is on a 1 week delay. This week Hebrew Mishpacha had only 2 pages of Pesach Program ads.

With the new regulations I guess they should all realize that none are happening.

Considering that they are making money off the ads, I don't see why they would.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 14, 2020, 11:35:24 PM
Considering that they are making money off the ads, I don't see why they would.

I was referring to the advertisers, not the publishers.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 14, 2020, 11:37:00 PM
I was referring to the advertisers, not the publishers.

most buy ads as a block (say for 10 weeks) so money already spent.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 15, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
I have family that was supposed to go to Spain.
They canceled on the program, but as of now the program said they will still operate.
They said they already invested too much money that they cannot get back so it is not worth it for them to shut, rather keep whatever people they can get.
Not offering any deposits back (or credits for next year etc).

Next year we will be seeing long contracts for Pesach programs that will state things like “not responsible for unforeseen epidemics etc”
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 15, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Pesach Time Tours is officially closed.
A real mentch. He didn't completely ignore the financial aspect but aspect people to be patient and they work through the thorny financial issues and recover as much money as possible.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: neveryou on March 15, 2020, 01:03:17 PM
If paid by credit card, do a chargeback
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zh cohen on March 15, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
If paid by credit card, do a chargeback

Or you can be a mench and reach out to the program first.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: knowitall on March 15, 2020, 08:47:25 PM
i Hear both sides

A) If there was no contract outlining a cancellation policy, and someone cancelled 30 days before, maybe they should get a 100% refund?

B) Even if the operator can get back his deposit from the hotel, and that’s a big if, there are always other costs such as food orders, advertising, administrative costs....
If this is “force majeure” or an “Act of G-d”, why should he eat the loss?

What do you think?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 09:00:16 PM
i Hear both sides

A) If there was no contract outlining a cancellation policy, and someone cancelled 30 days before, maybe they should get a 100% refund?

B) Even if the operator can get back his deposit from the hotel, and that’s a big if, there are always other costs such as food orders, advertising, administrative costs....
If this is “force majeure” or an “Act of G-d”, why should he eat the loss?

What do you think?

What difference does it make what I think. The question is what is right according to Halacha.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: knowitall on March 15, 2020, 09:03:51 PM
What difference does it make what I think. The question is what is right according to Halacha.
Well then, What do you think the Halacha would be?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 09:15:27 PM
Well then, What do you think the Halacha would be?

I'm no expert. Maybe @aygart can offer some insight.

I can tell you that I have a daily rental, and in cases of a client cancelation where I suffered a loss (i.e. I rejected a different reservation) DW was told that canceling party needs to make whole.

This is obviously a very different situation.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ltttc on March 15, 2020, 09:29:45 PM
I'm no expert. Maybe @aygart can offer some insight.

I can tell you that I have a daily rental, and in cases of a client cancelation where I suffered a loss (i.e. I rejected a different reservation) DW was told that canceling party needs to make whole.

This is obviously a very different situation.
W/o a written contract?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 09:38:34 PM
W/o a written contract?
In my case - yes.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ltttc on March 15, 2020, 09:40:29 PM
In my case - yes.
Do you tell them that beforehand?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: knowitall on March 15, 2020, 09:41:48 PM
Pesach programs can potentially get very interesting where a customer cancels his reservation, and then a week later the operator cancels the program/the state doesn’t allow him to run the program.
In that case both parties are canceling.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 09:44:33 PM
I'm no expert. Maybe @aygart can offer some insight.

I shy away from choshen mishpat.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: zale on March 15, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Pesach programs can potentially get very interesting where a customer cancels his reservation, and then a week later the operator cancels the program/the state doesn’t allow him to run the program.
In that case both parties are canceling.

Makes no difference which party cancels. It only matters what the contract says.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 15, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
Makes no difference which party cancels. It only matters what the contract says.
If there is one.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: knowitall on March 15, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
If there is one.
+10000

I know someone who never had a contract & canceled on a program and got a 75% refund. He’s happy with what he got and not looking for machlokes. But I’m sure many others are going to get into massive fights.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 15, 2020, 10:06:00 PM
I'll share some more positive heartwarming responses.
The tour operator of the program I referenced above told that some guests responded to his cancellation email saying " don't worry about our deposits. Hold onto it for the future when we can be your guest again”
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 15, 2020, 10:28:27 PM
I'll share some more positive heartwarming responses.
The tour operator of the program I referenced above told that some guests responded to his cancellation email saying " don't worry about our deposits. Hold onto it for the future when we can be your guest again”

They must have had past positive experience, and כמים הפנים לפנים כן לב האדם לאדם.
Contrast that with the violent demonstrations by ELAL unions are mind-boggling to me. What are they expecting?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: free123cc on March 15, 2020, 11:27:44 PM
the email I received from the program I was planning on attending. I don't believe for a second they will be allowed to open however due to the massive financial losses these owners are facing I believe they are having a hard time facing reality.

Dear guest,
 
With Pesach on its way, we would like to share with our valued customers information regarding the COVID-19 (Novel Coronavirus) and how that might affect our program.
 
It’s our focus to keep our customers safe and healthy throughout Pesach and we believe that by being precaution we will fulfil that obligation b’Ezras Hashem.
 
This year, we are taking extra steps with the help of the hotel and our staff to make sure that the spread of the virus is significantly minimized and hopefully will not stand a chance of affecting anyone at our program.
 
Our first step is to have sanitizer available throughout the hotel which we ask that you use it frequently.
 
We also ask that use napkins or gloves as much as possible when using elevator buttons, doorknobs, and public restrooms. Although special attention will be given to those areas by the staff and they will be sanitized (and cleaned with germ killing cleaning solutions) constantly we still ask that you should do your part as well.
 
Since our hotel is rather small and couldn’t accommodate the amount of people the other programs are having, it’s unlikely for us to be shut down by the state of NJ for having a large gathering. In addition, our hotel has over 12 ballrooms which we plan on utilizing for extra measures.
 
Only a limited amount of rooms will be available in order to keep the crowd at a minimum, if you have not received your confirmation letter please call us immediately. Also please note that your final balance was due on March 9st, if you still have an outstanding balance as of today please remit payment to ensure your stay with us.
 
We should only be healthy and to be Zocha this year to be in Yerushaliym!
 
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 15, 2020, 11:43:29 PM
Delusional
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: knowitall on March 16, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
Pressure tactics are pretty silly, “you must pay by X date to hold your spot”.
If by some miracle the state let’s programs operate, and by another miracle there are a significant portion of guests that don’t cancel, there will be plenty of room for anybody to sign up last minute (at bargain rates).
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aryeh1 on March 16, 2020, 08:57:47 AM
the email I received from the program I was planning on attending. I don't believe for a second they will be allowed to open however due to the massive financial losses these owners are facing I believe they are having a hard time facing reality.

Dear guest,
 
With Pesach on its way, we would like to share with our valued customers information regarding the COVID-19 (Novel Coronavirus) and how that might affect our program.
 
It’s our focus to keep our customers safe and healthy throughout Pesach and we believe that by being precaution we will fulfil that obligation b’Ezras Hashem.
 
This year, we are taking extra steps with the help of the hotel and our staff to make sure that the spread of the virus is significantly minimized and hopefully will not stand a chance of affecting anyone at our program.
 
Our first step is to have sanitizer available throughout the hotel which we ask that you use it frequently.
 
We also ask that use napkins or gloves as much as possible when using elevator buttons, doorknobs, and public restrooms. Although special attention will be given to those areas by the staff and they will be sanitized (and cleaned with germ killing cleaning solutions) constantly we still ask that you should do your part as well.
 
Since our hotel is rather small and couldn’t accommodate the amount of people the other programs are having, it’s unlikely for us to be shut down by the state of NJ for having a large gathering. In addition, our hotel has over 12 ballrooms which we plan on utilizing for extra measures.
 
Only a limited amount of rooms will be available in order to keep the crowd at a minimum, if you have not received your confirmation letter please call us immediately. Also please note that your final balance was due on March 9st, if you still have an outstanding balance as of today please remit payment to ensure your stay with us.
 
We should only be healthy and to be Zocha this year to be in Yerushaliym!
Which one is this?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2020, 11:12:29 PM
Pesach on the Mountain in Whistler is cancelled.

Hopefully many more to join them shortly.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 16, 2020, 11:16:11 PM
Pesach on the Mountain in Whistler is cancelled.

Hopefully many more to join them shortly.
Closing Canadian borders doesn't leave them with much of an option and might have been the trigger to be able to make an insurance claim.

What are you hoping for? Forthcoming honesty? They are likely to all be cancelled, it's just a question of when they will publicize.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: haltkup on March 18, 2020, 02:04:07 AM
I work in the P&C industry....Sadly almost all coverages include virus/pandemic exclusions. Will be very hard to make a claim. Not sure about costly specialized event coverage and if pesach programs even purchase those.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 18, 2020, 02:42:07 PM
I work in the P&C industry....Sadly almost all coverages include virus/pandemic exclusions. Will be very hard to make a claim. Not sure about costly specialized event coverage and if pesach programs even purchase those.

I have two clients that I thought would be perfect candidates for a CIC. There were a lot of abuses involving CICs so no one wanted to open themselves to audit risk. Had they implemented one when I suggested I am sure they would be very happy they did at this point.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 22, 2020, 04:00:16 PM
Pesach on the Mountain in Whistler is cancelled.

Hopefully many more to join them shortly.

Any updates on official cancelations?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 23, 2020, 02:37:24 AM
Thailand cancelled.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: AsherO on March 23, 2020, 10:28:17 AM
Is it a liability exposure for Pesach programs to try and make right their reserved attendees by arranging for catered food packages and creatively curated activity packages so people can have a nice Seder at home? Isn’t there an opportunity here?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: chevron on March 23, 2020, 10:45:05 AM
Is it a liability exposure for Pesach programs to try and make right their reserved attendees by arranging for catered food packages and creatively curated activity packages so people can have a nice Seder at home? Isn’t there an opportunity here?

Right that's something that I was telling a friend. If they could find a way to ship it At least both parties may not lose out completely
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: avromie7 on March 23, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Right that's something that I was telling a friend. If they could find a way to ship it At least both parties may not lose out completely
I believe some already started this, I know Michael Schick is. A complete package of food for 7 adults and 3 kids is $13,500 plus delivery. There is also an a-la-carte option.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 23, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
I believe some already started this, I know Michael Schick is. A complete package of food for 7 adults and 3 kids is $13,500 plus delivery. There is also an a-la-carte option.
Does it come with luxury matress, room service, and sand for the backyard?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moko on March 23, 2020, 01:22:33 PM
I believe some already started this, I know Michael Schick is. A complete package of food for 7 adults and 3 kids is $13,500 plus delivery. There is also an a-la-carte option.
ouch. As expensive as  the pesach program... Many are 5-6k per couple plus 1k for an extra adult in the room.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Yehudaa on March 23, 2020, 03:53:29 PM
Joint Statement from Agudath Israel, OU, The Lakewood Vaad, Young Israel, RCA, RAA:

Via https://www.ou.org/covid19/:

March 23, 3:30 PM EDT

Joint Statement to the Orthodox Community Regarding Pesach

Rabbinic leaders and organizations across the Orthodox spectrum have, individually, declared the health threat presented by COVID-19 a mortal threat (sakanas nefashos). We, leaders of major American Orthodox Jewish organizations, join together again to further clarify our shared and firm guidance for our communities.

We have heretofore urged not only full compliance with all health guidance issued by federal, state and local governments, but have gone beyond those pronouncements in urging our communities to remain at home and avoid, to the maximum extent feasible, any outside interactions.

With regard to the upcoming Pesach holiday, we note specifically the following critical mandates, shared in consultation with leading infectious disease and public health experts:

1. We are accustomed to honoring Pesach to the fullest degree, including taking haircuts, purchasing new clothing and tableware, and preparing the fullest menus. This year’s public health crisis mandates us to significantly limit all of the above. Our responsibility is to refrain from any NON-ESSENTIAL outside interactions, including especially in-store shopping. If there is a need for truly ESSENTIAL purchases, send one family member only – who is neither ill, vulnerable, nor of known exposure to COVID-19 – as rarely and as briefly as possible. Stores serving the community should shift to home delivery or drive-by parking lot pick-up of pre-orders, and – to the extent this is not possible – must take substantive steps to minimize crowding, maintain hygiene, and maximize social distancing.

We will truly honor Pesach by limiting our purchases to the truly ESSENTIAL, ensuring that all of us – especially the vulnerable – are able to celebrate Pesach in good health. We must STAY HOME; SAVE LIVES.

2. The Pesach plans of many have been completely upended. This creates severe difficulty for so many. We are deeply sympathetic to this enormous difficulty. Nevertheless, public health demands strict adherence to the current guidance. Travel to other cities must be cancelled, whether to vacation venues (Florida, etc.) or to family. Everyone must plan to celebrate Pesach where they are currently.

Individuals living alone or those absolutely unable to prepare for Pesach may choose to self-quarantine for 14 days, and then – if asymptomatic – may join with a welcoming local family that is similarly asymptomatic and that has been disciplined in staying home and limiting their interactions outside the home to the absolute minimum as described above.

These guests may join one family only for the duration, without additional company, and must carefully observe the mandated standards of scrupulous hygiene and social distancing. The elderly and high risk must seek medical advice before considering this.

STAY HOME; SAVE LIVES

We urge one and all – while strictly maintaining the prescribed guidelines – to look out for each other by reaching out to and providing for each other, especially those living alone.

We hope and pray that our sincere tefillos (prayers) and chassadim (acts of kindness) will move Hashem to swiftly remove this plague from the world and bless us all with health, peace and tranquility.

Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zweibel, Executive Vice President, Agudath Israel of America
Rabbi Mendy Mirocznick, Executive Vice-President, Igud HaRabbanim – Rabbinical Alliance of America
Rabbi Shmuel Blech, Chairman, Rabbi Moshe Chaim Weisberg, Co-Chair, The Lakewood Vaad
Farley Weiss, President, National Council of Young Israel
Moishe Bane, President, Allen Fagin, Executive Vice President, the Orthodox Union
Rabbi Daniel Korobkin, President, Rabbi Mark Dratch, Executive Vice President, Rabbinical Council of America
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Menachem613 on March 23, 2020, 07:58:27 PM
Are the Kosherica Pesach programs still officially on? They are being very quiet about their plans.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 24, 2020, 11:19:13 AM
I believe some already started this, I know Michael Schick is. A complete package of food for 7 adults and 3 kids is $13,500 plus delivery. There is also an a-la-carte option.

https://michael-schick-catering.myshopify.com/
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Baglach on March 24, 2020, 12:18:46 PM
Are the Kosherica Pesach programs still officially on? They are being very quiet about their plans.
Is any program still on? One program in italy refused a refund/credit to a friend claiming he is still on.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Menachem613 on March 24, 2020, 12:52:05 PM
How will your friend prove that the program is no longer opening?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 24, 2020, 12:54:30 PM
How will your friend prove that the program is no longer opening?
Call/email the hotel hosting it, ask for an official statement that they can't host the program. If they are not updated today, in a week they will be.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: aygart on March 24, 2020, 02:48:25 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/pesach-at-home-with-greenwald-caterers.html
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 24, 2020, 06:32:28 PM
News from Eretz Yisroel is that several Sefardic Rabbis gave a one time heter to use Zoom so elderly people can participate in a seder.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 24, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
News from Eretz Yisroel is that several Sefardic Rabbis gave a one time heter to use Zoom so elderly people can participate in a seder.
Attached. (Updated @ExGingi )
(https://i.imgur.com/U7FmkDt.jpg)
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 24, 2020, 06:35:33 PM
Attached.

There's an updated version out there with additional signatures.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Shmobaum on March 25, 2020, 01:08:41 AM
News from Eretz Yisroel is that several Sefardic Rabbis gave a one time heter to use Zoom so elderly people can participate in a seder.
Wow incredible!!! Rav Moshe Heinemann takeh assured it in his shiur last night on TorahAnytime. Very brave psak...
Let’s see how the Zoom stock is gonna do tomorrow...
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yfr bachur on March 25, 2020, 08:10:49 AM
There is no way any rav, considered mainstream chariedi, will sign such a  hetter.
Have you heard of ANY of these "Rabbis" before????
None of Chacham Ovadia Yosef's children signed, no one from the Moetzes Chachmei Hatorah, not even from the Chavrei Moetzes Harabanut Harashit L'Yisrael!!!!!!!

You need "shoulders" to start with hetterim like this, its not for the Ram in some Yeshiva to sign on, or the Mara Dasra of some small Yishuv, or the Rav of a Beit Knessset.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 25, 2020, 08:16:25 AM
There is no way any rav, considered mainstream chariedi, will sign such a  hetter.
Have you heard of ANY of these "Rabbis" before????
None of Chacham Ovadia Yosef's children signed, no one from the Moetzes Chachmei Hatorah, not even from the Chavrei Moetzes Harabanut Harashit L'Yisrael!!!!!!!

You need "shoulders" to start with hetterim like this, its not for the Ram in some Yeshiva to sign on, or the Mara Dasra of some small Yishuv, or the Rav of a Beit Knessset.
Do you know Rav Abergel?
A small yishuv?
They are all Rabonim from North Africa, not the same area where Ovadia yosef comes from.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yuneeq on March 25, 2020, 08:48:20 AM
Do you know Rav Abergel?
A small yishuv?
They are all Rabonim from North Africa, not the same area where Ovadia yosef comes from.

Not gonna disparage anyone, but I’d like to see someone like Rabbi Shlomo Amar (also Moroccan) on it.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Proisrael on March 25, 2020, 08:52:17 AM
Not gonna disparage anyone, but I’d like to see someone like Rabbi Shlomo Amar (also Moroccan) on it.

Rav Mordechai Eliyahu came out strongly against it, along with Tzhoar rabonim....
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 25, 2020, 09:11:17 AM
https://www.kipa.co.il/חדשות/957426-הדברים-הוצאו-מהקשרם-רבנים-שחתמו-על-פסק-הזום-חוזרים-בהם/
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: israshot on March 25, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
https://www.kipa.co.il/חדשות/957426-הדברים-הוצאו-מהקשרם-רבנים-שחתמו-על-פסק-הזום-חוזרים-בהם/
You're funny, you wanted the previous version with all the signatures... Comes out I sent first the updated one.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 25, 2020, 09:19:49 AM
You're funny, you wanted the previous version with all the signatures... Comes out I sent first the updated one.

Little did I know. I saw a different version than the one you posted, and since it had more signatories, I assumed it to be a later version.

I just found this news item about the retractions.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yfr bachur on March 25, 2020, 12:57:53 PM
Do you know Rav Abergel?
A small yishuv?
They are all Rabonim from North Africa, not the same area where Ovadia yosef comes from.

Sorry, I meant some of the other signatories
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: damaxer91 on March 26, 2020, 04:16:54 PM
Has anyone had luck canceling Orlando vacation rentals? I was booked through a company called Magical Vacations that is refusing to refund now...
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on March 27, 2020, 12:54:22 PM
Do you know Rav Abergel?
A small yishuv?
They are all Rabonim from North Africa, not the same area where Ovadia yosef comes from.

https://www.20il.co.il/חשיפה-היתר-הזום-בליל-הסדר-מזוייף/
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Kvending on March 28, 2020, 10:59:12 PM
Has anyone had luck canceling Orlando vacation rentals? I was booked through a company called Magical Vacations that is refusing to refund now...

I am booked through a company called Vacasa.

They offered me 110% credit and I told them I just want a full refund. They are refusing.

I will try going through cc.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ACF on March 29, 2020, 01:55:28 AM
Now that it is clear that all the Israel Pesach programs have been cancelled due to government regulations I would be interested in hearing what refunds others have received from the operators. We received 70% cash refund and 10% voucher. Is there any way to receive the rest of the amount from sources other than the operator (e.g., insurance, government funds)?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: AsherO on March 29, 2020, 12:58:37 PM
Now that it is clear that all the Israel Pesach programs have been cancelled due to government regulations I would be interested in hearing what refunds others have received from the operators. We received 70% cash refund and 10% voucher. Is there any way to receive the rest of the amount from sources other than the operator (e.g., insurance, government funds)?

CC chargeback? Ask for 30% and say you don’t care for the voucher.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: A3 on March 29, 2020, 03:14:29 PM
I am booked through a company called Vacasa.

They offered me 110% credit and I told them I just want a full refund. They are refusing.

I will try going through cc.
The governor put a statewide ban on short term rentals.

Either way they should be forced to cancel.
If they don’t have to cash to give you that should their problem as it’s supposed to be on their books as a liability until stay.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2020, 04:54:48 PM
Are any programs still operating?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: jj1000 on March 31, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241632126.html

NYC Jewish school sues South Beach hotel for $2.3 million refund after coronavirus axes trip
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Menachem613 on April 06, 2020, 02:02:25 PM
I am booked through a company called Vacasa.

They offered me 110% credit and I told them I just want a full refund. They are refusing.

I will try going through cc.

Any luck with the chargeback?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: AsherO on April 06, 2020, 02:08:17 PM
I am booked through a company called Vacasa.

They offered me 110% credit and I told them I just want a full refund. They are refusing.

I will try going through cc.


110% credit is a joke. They can jack their rates up 30% next year to get people to have to shell out more $$ or forfeit the credit.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Menachem613 on April 06, 2020, 02:25:21 PM
110% credit is a joke. They can jack their rates up 30% next year to get people to have to shell out more $$ or forfeit the credit.

...and that assumes they are still in business and same location.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Dave321 on April 06, 2020, 02:50:45 PM
90% will not be in business next year. mark my words
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: dealfinder11 on April 06, 2020, 03:59:13 PM
90% will not be in business next year. mark my words

number seems high but you never know.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2020, 08:20:59 AM
90% will not be in business next year. mark my words

Why not? Everyone will have to write off a one year loss, it’s still lucrative for the programs that sell out, I imagine that’s more than 10%.

I guess it also depends on the world’s economic situation in a year, but 90% still sounds high.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: Menachem613 on April 07, 2020, 10:35:25 PM
90% will not be in business next year. mark my words

I think enough programs screwed over their guests, so they should be in ok financial shape next year.
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: moish on May 21, 2020, 04:43:55 PM
Open for Shavuos
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yesitsme on May 21, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
where is the non corona ad in the mishpacha?
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: ExGingi on May 21, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
where is the non corona ad in the mishpacha?

This? https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114642.msg2208195#msg2208195
Title: Re: Pesach Programs
Post by: yesitsme on May 21, 2020, 08:50:16 PM
This? https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114642.msg2208195#msg2208195
yes thanks