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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 / Wuhan Novel Coronavirus Discussion => Topic started by: YitzyS on March 19, 2020, 10:18:54 PM

Title: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 19, 2020, 10:18:54 PM
There have been a few headlines recently that have been wide-brushing the Jewish community, or even containing outright overtones of Antisemitism.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/18/hasidic-community-ignores-social-distancing-orders-amid-coronavirus/

and today:

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/as-coronavirus-cases-soar-in-nj-lakewood-pushes-the-toll-higher.html

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: DarcheiParent on March 19, 2020, 10:25:12 PM
Let's be honest. Take a look at what's going on in Borough Park and Lakewood... Much of this 'anti semitism' is our own fault and deserved.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 10:25:34 PM
This has been brought on the jewish community, by themselves. Really no one else to blame. The blatant disregard shown, by a portion of the religious jewish population, is the reason this is happening. Eisav sonah es yaakov, really doesnt need much to set it off.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on March 19, 2020, 10:26:38 PM
This has been brought on the jewish community, by themselves. Really no one else to blame. The blatant disregard shown, by a portion of the religious jewish population, is the reason this is happening. Eisav sonah es yaakov, really doesnt need much to set it off.
antisemitism when true, is still antisemitism(?)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 19, 2020, 10:27:53 PM
This has been brought on the jewish community, by themselves. Really no one else to blame. The blatant disregard shown, by a portion of the religious jewish population, is the reason this is happening. Eisav sonah es yaakov, really doesnt need much to set it off.

Let's be honest. Take a look at what's going on in Borough Park and Lakewood... Much of this 'anti semitism' is our own fault and deserved.

No no no no no no. No.

Also, no.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 10:28:31 PM
Maybe. But I’m not sure this is anti semitism. Just reporting.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 10:28:57 PM
No no no no no no. No.

Also, no. I’m glad that you have an opinion.


Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 19, 2020, 10:30:03 PM
Let's be honest. Take a look at what's going on in Borough Park and Lakewood... Much of this 'anti semitism' is our own fault and deserved.
Much of this is painting the whole community with one brush, with is a true form of antisemitism. When one Christian steals, do we say that all Christians are thieves? No. But when one Jew does something, we paint all Jews with the same brush. If a reporter sees Lakewood as "a bunch of Jews", and doesn't think about the fact that each one is an individual whose stupidity doesn't represent the rest of the community, then that reporter is antisemitic.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yuneeq on March 19, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
I knew this would happen to us, but didn’t think it would be right away. But sadly almost everyone of us is still ignoring it. On LNN status I see 4 different parties of people dancing holding hands. During Purim we will see this reckless behavior get exponentially worse. I don’t want to fathom what the fallout from Purim will be but Hashem save us.

Soon we will start hearing the anti-semites piping up claiming we caused all this, and that will be the least of our concerns.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 10:31:42 PM
Much is this is painting the whole community with one brush, with is a true form of antisemitism. When one Christian steals, do we say that all Christians are thieves? No. But when one Jew does something, we paint all Jews with the same brush. If a reporter sees Lakewood as "a bunch of Jews", and doesn't think about the fact that each one is an individual whose stupidity doesn't represent the rest of the community, then that reporter is antisemitic.
It represents a portion of the community, and not a small portion either.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: as2 on March 19, 2020, 10:34:39 PM
Neither side is at all in the right here. The thing is, it's unfortunately the norm for the media to generalize, so it's not antisemitism, it's their usual reporting. As for the people participating in the events the media is portraying, they are negligent at best, and murderers at worst.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 19, 2020, 10:35:07 PM
I am going to be blunt. This is an anti-Semitics wet dream.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 19, 2020, 10:41:15 PM
It represents a portion of the community, and not a small portion either.
I don't know about Brooklyn, but I don't think that it's the case in Lakewood.

The media harped on the fact that the police had to close two weddings in Lakewood. This took place less than 24 hours after Gov. Murphy's ban went into effect, and the ban was extremely confusing. Both weddings were outdoors, a situation which attendees clearly thought circumvented the danger that prompted the ban. Additionally, attendance at these weddings were minuscule, not much over the 50 person limit, many of who were close relatives of the married couple, and were naturally very preoccupied with wedding preparations and couldn't focus on the details of the ban.

Yet, this story was prominently reported about by all NJ media outlets, and it was even used to define the Orthodox community's response to the virus.

One Asbury Park Press article about the way the community was responding to the virus featured this paragraph near the beginning of the article:

“Just a few hours after the Asbury Park Press spoke to Orthodox Jewish leaders about how the community was handling coronavirus, Lakewood police “shut down” a wedding at a catering hall, according to an exchange on the police department’s Facebook page.
That event came two full days after Gov. Phil Murphy on Monday issued an executive order mandating social distancing, including a ban on any gatherings of over 50 people.”

The reporter amended the language after I voiced my concern.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 10:57:42 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/03/19/lakewood-mesivta-defies-mandatory-shutdown-remains-open-with-150-students/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: DarcheiParent on March 19, 2020, 10:58:16 PM

Please go on another vacation.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 19, 2020, 10:58:51 PM

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on March 19, 2020, 11:00:34 PM
let's ask this question.
if calling it the chines virus, is a problem, worthy to get all libs started.
how is this not a problem?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 11:03:42 PM
let's ask this question.
if calling it the chines virus, is a problem, worthy to get all libs started.
how is this not a problem?
It might be. But again, no one but ourselves to blame.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 11:05:58 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/brooklyn-hatzola-issues-dire-coronavirus-warning-this-is-a-crisis/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on March 19, 2020, 11:06:20 PM
Please go on another vacation.
Do you think he is wrong, or do just not like the language used?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 19, 2020, 11:07:07 PM
It might be. But again, no one but ourselves to blame.
The are small parks in NYC filled with more than 50 people, they happen to be black. Imagine a news story based on that that African Americans are not following rules.

Stop. Blaming. Jews. For. Anti. Semitism.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on March 19, 2020, 11:08:49 PM
Eisav sonah es yaakov is a din. The way that some are acting, are feeding right into this. What’s so difficult to understand?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 19, 2020, 11:57:44 PM
This was my message to the reporter:

https://talk.app.com/t/lakewood-one-of-njs-fastest-growing-towns/23/7?u=yitzys
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yef on March 20, 2020, 12:51:05 AM
Meanwhile,1.5 million people rode the subway in NYC  yesterday!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: jj1000 on March 20, 2020, 08:54:01 AM
From a local in Surfside:

My neighbor who I’ve been friendly with for the past 8 years just saw me in the street and yelled “you f***ing Jews are going to kill us all! You should have shut the shul weeks ago!” 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: sillypainter on March 20, 2020, 09:00:59 AM
From a local in Surfside:

My neighbor who I’ve been friendly with for the past 8 years just saw me in the street and yelled “you f***ing Jews are going to kill us all! You should have shut the shul weeks ago!”

Reminds me of the so called "friends" in the holocaust that did the same when they saw the transports of Jews lining up.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: TimT on March 20, 2020, 09:03:44 AM
“We won’t tolerate bigotry towards Asians”
“The Jews are gonna kill us all”
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on March 20, 2020, 10:28:40 AM
Mayor De Blasio just mentioned the wedding of 150 ppl on Brian Lehrer show but didn't say where and who it was.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whYME on March 20, 2020, 10:59:11 AM
From a local in Surfside:

My neighbor who I’ve been friendly with for the past 8 years just saw me in the street and yelled “you f***ing Jews are going to kill us all! You should have shut the shul weeks ago!” 
Aha so that's what's been going on in FL, those pictures I saw that I thought were people partying on the beaches were really just Jews davening...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ltttc on March 20, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
Let's be honest. Take a look at what's going on in Borough Park and Lakewood... Much of this 'anti semitism' is our own fault and deserved.
Let's not be our own anti-Semites please
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on March 20, 2020, 11:07:06 AM
From a local in Surfside:

My neighbor who I’ve been friendly with for the past 8 years just saw me in the street and yelled “you f***ing Jews are going to kill us all! You should have shut the shul weeks ago!”
Perhaps he's not your friend.
he just didn't find a reson to hate you.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: mochjas on March 20, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
Its not only the jews who are getting thrown under the bus. Spring Breakers are getting blasted as well.....
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on March 20, 2020, 05:47:58 PM
I saw a video of people piling out after services today at the mosque on Ave H by Coney Island in Brooklyn. Not expecting any media coverage though...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 20, 2020, 05:55:19 PM
I saw a video of people piling out after services today at the mosque on Ave H by Coney Island in Brooklyn. Not expecting any media coverage though...
If it would have been a shul on the other hand...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ib3 on March 21, 2020, 11:41:10 PM
Hi, hoping to find some math expert on DDF.
Yes I know we saw a high number of positive test in Brooklyn slot of them from jewish people.
But, since this virus is very contagious, and especially with kids which don't have any symptoms but can still carry it, the chances that a family with many kids, should catch the virus is multiplied significantly.
So taking into consideration that  the  average American family size is 3.14 and the average (Jewish) Brooklyn family size is 9, the chances that it should be caught is multiplied drastically.
Looking for a math expert to break down the numbers.
I would assume it should be something like this
2 to the 3.14 power =8.81
While 2 to the 9th Power =512
Which means that a typical large family should have 58x more chance to catch it.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: googwallet on March 21, 2020, 11:44:39 PM
... and the average (Jewish) Brooklyn family size is 9, the chances that it should be caught is multiplied drastically.
You must be a math expert yourself if you came up with the average Jewish family size of 9 in Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on March 21, 2020, 11:46:00 PM
You may also want to factor in that Jewish families may mingle more with others than the general public. EG: going to shul, more weddings and simchos, visiting family that leaves nearby...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ib3 on March 21, 2020, 11:52:46 PM
You must be a math expert yourself if you came up with the average Jewish family size of 9 in Brooklyn.
Let's not get stuck up with the exact numbers. It might be 7or it might be 10. But you get the idea.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: chevron on March 22, 2020, 01:24:56 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8138351/Two-New-Jersey-homeowners-arrested-hosting-large-gatherings-including-pop-wedding.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Onefishtwofishredfishblue on March 22, 2020, 01:34:05 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8138351/Two-New-Jersey-homeowners-arrested-hosting-large-gatherings-including-pop-wedding.html

Apparently this is a fake news. Via Vin
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 22, 2020, 09:59:54 AM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 22, 2020, 10:04:06 AM

Is it wrong to report that it is spreading in a nursing home? 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 22, 2020, 10:32:23 AM
Is it wrong to report that it is spreading in a nursing home?
I don't think it's wrong to report that orthodox communities were hit harder by Corona (if we were), it's a byproduct of our communal lifestyle. It matters how the reporting is done.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 22, 2020, 10:35:50 AM
I don't think it's wrong to report that orthodox communities were hit harder by Corona (if we were), it's a byproduct of our communal lifestyle. It matters how the reporting is done.
It is a 100% fact that there is or will be anti-Semitism related to Coronavirus. It will be so blatant you wont have to guess about the reporting. 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 22, 2020, 10:42:05 AM
I don't think it's wrong to report that orthodox communities were hit harder by Corona (if we were), it's a byproduct of our communal lifestyle. It matters how the reporting is done.
I can't speak about New York, but in New Jersey - at least as of a few days ago - the official numbers in Orthodox communities were equal to or less than other areas.

The index cases - the first 8 or so cases, were in counties that did not have major Jewish communities (not in Ocean, or even Passaic Counties). Some were in Bergen's Jewish community, but a small percentage. Most of the other early cases were traced to a Biogen meeting, nothing related to the Jewish community. Even as number started to escalate, and Lakewood started reporting cases, it was consistent with the size of the town, one of NJ's largest. It may rise faster because of community dynamics, but the community is almost entirely avidly social distancing, and the few exceptions are getting a disproportionate amount of press.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on March 22, 2020, 12:32:32 PM
I can't speak about New York, but in New Jersey - at least as of a few days ago - the official numbers in Orthodox communities were equal to or less than other areas.

The index cases - the first 8 or so cases, were in counties that did not have major Jewish communities (not in Ocean, or even Passaic Counties). Some were in Bergen's Jewish community, but a small percentage. Most of the other early cases were traced to a Biogen meeting, nothing related to the Jewish community. Even as number started to escalate, and Lakewood started reporting cases, it was consistent with the size of the town, one of NJ's largest. It may rise faster because of community dynamics, but the community is almost entirely avidly social distancing, and the few exceptions are getting a disproportionate amount of press.

and the difference is the amount of test kits available 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 22, 2020, 12:43:11 PM
This seems to be a fair article, based on my first impression.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/in-a-place-that-revolves-around-community-coronarvirus-takes-a-heavy-toll-on-tradition.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on March 22, 2020, 01:28:55 PM
I live on a block in BP that has 2 houses total out of about 80 that are owned by one goy with goyish tenants. There was an outside minyan with good separation and one of the tenants who is an anti-semite without this came out shabbos morning cursing and yelling.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cgr on March 22, 2020, 04:24:31 PM
?s=19
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 22, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
?s=19
Are you serious?! Do they think theyre immune to it so they can go killing whoever they dont like?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 22, 2020, 05:13:29 PM
Are you serious?! Do they think theyre immune to it so they can go killing whoever they dont like?
They are nutcases. Why wouldn't they believe it, especially the young and dumb.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Jellybelly on March 22, 2020, 05:25:41 PM
They are nutcases. Why wouldn't they believe it, especially the young and dumb.
I guess They’re counting on the fact that they’re young and they hope to give to old people?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on March 22, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
Are you serious?! Do they think theyre immune to it so they can go killing whoever they dont like?

They are telling people who already have it to spread it to people they want to kill.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on March 23, 2020, 12:12:42 AM
That should go to the news too.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 23, 2020, 08:33:01 AM
There has been extensive coverage about this "criminal" event in the media.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 23, 2020, 09:57:14 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/heres-a-list-of-incidents-lakewood-police-reported-since-the-governor-issued-the-stay-at-home-order.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 23, 2020, 11:23:18 AM
Check out the whole thread:


Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: pointer on March 23, 2020, 05:25:49 PM
https://matzav.com/watch-chassidic-man-in-orange-county-turned-away-at-toyota-dealership-for-spreading-the-virus/

Scum.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on March 23, 2020, 11:10:08 PM
https://matzav.com/watch-chassidic-man-in-orange-county-turned-away-at-toyota-dealership-for-spreading-the-virus/

Scum.
They are doubling down!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 23, 2020, 11:14:22 PM
They are doubling down!
Ask Toyota corporate for comment as well as the NY AG office.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 24, 2020, 11:58:30 AM
The recently-hired Lakewood reporter for the Asbury Park Press, Gustavo Martinez, has come out against false reports in national outlets about arrests in Lakewood. He has been staunchly defending the Jewish community against fake news. Kudos to him.




Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on March 24, 2020, 12:21:25 PM


Ask Toyota corporate for comment as well as the NY AG office.

Nah, they are just concerned for (fill in the blank). It has nothing to so with antisemitism.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on March 25, 2020, 05:11:40 PM
The recently-hired Lakewood reporter for the Asbury Park Press, Gustavo Martinez, has come out against false reports in national outlets about arrests in Lakewood. He has been staunchly defending the Jewish community against fake news. Kudos to him.
Wow. The APP likes to stir the pot in Lakewood, he won't have a job for much longer IMO.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on March 25, 2020, 05:18:43 PM
Judge for yourself.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on March 25, 2020, 05:38:03 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on March 25, 2020, 05:38:26 PM
Judge for yourself.
Someone call them and tell them it's all over social media please!!!!!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on March 25, 2020, 05:39:48 PM
Someone call them and tell them it's all over social media please!!!!!
They brought it up to themselves.
Maybe a big fine will warn others to not do it.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on March 25, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
They brought it up to themselves.
Maybe a big fine will warn others to not do it.
I have no problem with them being fined. I have a problem with
 it getting to the mainstream press. Maybe they will close for real if someone tells them it's not a secret anymore.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on March 25, 2020, 05:50:23 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on March 25, 2020, 05:56:17 PM
I have no problem with them being fined. I have a problem with
 it getting to the mainstream press. Maybe they will close for real if someone tells them it's not a secret anymore.
On second thought, that looks like a housewares store. Why can't they be open? Especially if they are letting people in one by one at the side door?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 25, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
On second thought, that looks like a housewares store. Why can't they be open? Especially if they are letting people in one by one at the side door?
Yup that silver menorah is essential. ::)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: pointer on March 25, 2020, 06:01:47 PM
On second thought, that looks like a housewares store. Why can't they be open? Especially if they are letting people in one by one at the side door?
Houseware stores Don't generally sell silver menorahs.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on March 25, 2020, 06:01:49 PM
On second thought, that looks like a housewares store. Why can't they be open? Especially if they are letting people in one by one at the side door?
Check here the liste, seems like you need a חזרה.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-issues-guidance-essential-services-under-new-york-state-pause-executive-order
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on March 25, 2020, 06:03:44 PM
On second thought, that looks like a housewares store. Why can't they be open? Especially if they are letting people in one by one at the side door?

From the English sign it's clear that (at least they believe) they aren't considered essential.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on March 25, 2020, 06:04:51 PM
On second thought, that looks like a housewares store. Why can't they be open? Especially if they are letting people in one by one at the side door?
Third thought... It's not a housewares store. Looks like a silver store. My apologies.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: TimT on March 25, 2020, 06:06:35 PM
When all else fails, google the number ;D
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on March 25, 2020, 06:10:17 PM
When all else fails, google the number ;D
Here, at DDF, it's an unnecessary advice... I mean, who didn't think about it?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flymiles on March 25, 2020, 06:17:26 PM
Judge for yourself.

Did you try to call that number, what is the store about
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: moko on March 25, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
Rumor has it Hasc just decided to close the residences and send the residents back to family including in other states. #stopthespread
Someone needs to talk to hasc
Let the mayor and governor know.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 10:26:51 AM
Sickening petition:


https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus

Quote
We need the Lakewood Community shutdown during the Corvid-19 Virus


Susan Skowronski started this petition to Parents and 4 others
We the residents of Ocean County, New Jersey are having our lives put in serious danger with the Covid-19 virus! The religious community of Lakewood, New Jersey are NOT following Governor Murphy’s State demand to having gatherings of 50 persons or less. The Lakewood police are shutting down daily weddings with up to 250 guests at private homes. The “Private” school students are still attending school daily for all to see! Our sounding towns of Brick, Toms River and Jackson are doing our part of staying home and self quarantine but we have to still go out to feed our families and the residents of Lakewood are in our stores 24/7 not following our Governor’s stay at home demands! This needs to stop!!!!! Our children need their lives back, their graduations, their grandparents, our jobs, our health! This Lakewood community is holding our lives in their hands. Mayor Lichtenstein Needs to be held accountable! Please bring in the US National Guard Governer Murphy!

All of Ocean County and the rest of the Country
know to keep up with our social distancing, hand washing and being vigilant! This Lakewood community does NOT care about us or our families!! We need to rise up Ocean County and stop the spread!!! Please help me bring this issue to Governer Murphy!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: VacationLover on March 26, 2020, 10:33:38 AM
Sickening petition:


https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus
Sickening indeed.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 26, 2020, 10:51:46 AM
Sickening petition:


https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus
The amount of false information there.. total garbage
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on March 26, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus/c/779786469

Quote
Their community is posting videos claiming they cannot catch the virus and are refusing to self isolate, making it more likely the virus will continue to spread quickly.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 26, 2020, 11:10:30 AM
Sickening petition:


https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus
I reported them, please everyone take a minute to do the same.

The allegations are completely false. Lakewood has on the whole been way MORE vigilant than the rest of Ocean County for the last week, preceding even the governor’s executive order. Also, there is a lot of anti Semitic sentiment being expressed in the comments, including some from ostensible health care workers. I fear they will believe this drivel and withhold some of their attention and care, even subconsciously. We cannot allow this to happen.

Please take a moment to report the violations to change.org. It is clearly defamatory, hate speech, and false and misleading.

Thanks for doing your part to keep people in Lakewood safe!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 11:59:31 AM
Sickening petition:


https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus
” but we have to still go out to feed our families and the residents of Lakewood are in our stores 24/7 ”

Sick, hateful, and hypocritical. Unfortunately it will get the 5k signatures prob in the next hour or two
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 12:04:48 PM
Scroll down to the bottom to where it says report a policy violation.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
I reported them, please everyone take a minute to do the same.

The allegations are completely false. Lakewood has on the whole been way MORE vigilant than the rest of Ocean County for the last week, preceding even the governor’s executive order. Also, there is a lot of anti Semitic sentiment being expressed in the comments, including some from ostensible health care workers. I fear they will believe this drivel and withhold some of their attention and care, even subconsciously. We cannot allow this to happen.

Please take a moment to report the violations to change.org. It is clearly defamatory, hate speech, and false and misleading.

Thanks for doing your part to keep people in Lakewood safe!
And they don't have even the basic facts right. They want to hold "Mayor Lichtenstein" accountable. Lakewood's mayor is Ray Coles. Lichtenstein, whose first name is Meir, hasn't been mayor for roughly 10 years.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Good comment on the petition: http://chng.it/gvrtP28N

Quote
This is an anti semitic post. 99.99% of the Lakewood community is locked down in their houses are not venturing out. They are locked down more than the law requires. When you have a community of over 100,000 people and you see a few people outside, that represents .0001%. You completely ignore the hundreds of weddings canceled, Bar Mitzvahs canceled, shopping canceled. No, you focus on the few bad apples. Because non-Jews don't have bad apples of course, only Jews do. Please be a little more broad minded than that.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on March 26, 2020, 12:48:10 PM
Scroll down to the bottom to where it says report a policy violation.

Done. I wrote "this petition uses false information and anti-Semitic tropes to foster hatred against the Jewish community"
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on March 26, 2020, 12:49:58 PM
Good comment on the petition: http://chng.it/gvrtP28N

Give it a like
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on March 26, 2020, 01:00:01 PM
Scroll down to the bottom to where it says report a policy violation.
Done
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Proisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:07:49 PM
All you people knocking this post are a bunch of hypochrates. This forum was infested with anti rabonim anti charedi anti religious posts. The goyim just followed your lead. Shame on all of you.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 26, 2020, 01:12:31 PM
All you people knocking this post are a bunch of hypochrates. This forum was infested with anti rabonim anti charedi anti religious posts. The goyim just followed your lead. Shame on all of you.
Are you confusing facts (posts here) with fiction (petition)?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Proisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:14:53 PM
Are you confusing facts (posts here) with fiction (petition)?

It is one and the same. Dont fool yourself. Both bashing the same group for the same reasons.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 26, 2020, 01:20:00 PM
Are you confusing facts (posts here) with fiction (petition)?

There is no shortage of fiction here.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 26, 2020, 01:23:30 PM
It is one and the same. Dont fool yourself. Both bashing the same group for the same reasons.
So when a respected member here posts a picture of a wedding and calls them out for it he is bashing the group?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
All you people knocking this post are a bunch of hypochrates. This forum was infested with anti rabonim anti charedi anti religious posts. The goyim just followed your lead. Shame on all of you.
all of us?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/lakewood-police-chief-greg-meyer-were-seeing-nearly-100-compliance-with-governors-orders.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on March 26, 2020, 01:27:21 PM
all of us?
No, just "you people".  ;)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:28:50 PM
No, just "you people".  ;)
im knocking this smear -a -community post and haven’t bashed the rabbanim etc. Antisemitism needs to be called out  immediately wherever it shows it’s ugly face. Simple as that. And believe me, I’m not one to cry wolf all the time.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Proisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
here is a post with multiple people on here calling rabonim murderes. https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114911.0

If that is our response to Daas Torah then what do you want the Non-Jews response to be?!?!?!?! This anti-semitic post is dispicable but it comes no where close to the hate that was on DDF against Daas Torah!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 01:35:23 PM
here is a post with multiple people on here calling rabonim murderes. https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114911.0

If that is our response to Daas Torah then what do you want the Non-Jews response to be?!?!?!?! This anti-semitic post is dispicable but it comes no where close to the hate that was on DDF against Daas Torah!
I agree. Sad indeed on both ends. We have enough haters from without, don’t need more within. Nothing new in our history ...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 02:15:04 PM
Here are some more comments on the petition that people should like. The comments with the most likes rise to the top, so people will see them first.

http://chng.it/Mxqt9ctX

http://chng.it/bsQBVKv8
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 26, 2020, 02:17:33 PM
I hope that people realize that when they post these comments they are also signeing the petition to say that they agree.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 02:21:14 PM
I hope that people realize that when they post these comments they are also signeing the petition to say that they agree.
only way to get a public comment in... maybe it will get to the governor and he’ll use it to speak out against anti semitism.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
only way to get a public comment in... maybe it will get to the governor and he’ll use it to speak out against anti semitism.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on March 26, 2020, 02:42:24 PM
here is a post with multiple people on here calling rabonim murderes. https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114911.0

If that is our response to Daas Torah then what do you want the Non-Jews response to be?!?!?!?! This anti-semitic post is dispicable but it comes no where close to the hate that was on DDF against Daas Torah!

I personally think there's a huge difference between taking our leaders to task for their slow response over the last 2-4 weeks, and spewing anti-Semitic tropes about an entire community, especially when the fact is over 95% of that community is currently adhering to local and federal regulations.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 03:12:00 PM
Someone started a Change.org petition to counter the antisemitic one.

https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-shut-down-the-hate-against-lakewood-and-orthodox-jews
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on March 26, 2020, 03:49:00 PM
Sickening petition:


https://www.change.org/p/parents-we-need-the-lakewood-community-shutdown-during-the-corvid-19-virus

So, what's Corvid-19 anyway?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 26, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
So, what's Corvid-19 anyway?
Chinese and ORthodox Virus?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: TimT on March 26, 2020, 03:55:05 PM
So, what's Corvid-19 anyway?
Typo. Was supposed to say Coryid-19
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 05:21:59 PM
You think 7,500 people are familiar with the real situation on the ground in Lakewood? Sad and scary on so many levels.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 26, 2020, 05:22:29 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/gov-murphy-overwhelming-percentage-of-folks-in-lakewood-doing-exactly-the-right-thing-calls-out-hate-and-anti-semitism-video.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 26, 2020, 05:27:45 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/gov-murphy-overwhelming-percentage-of-folks-in-lakewood-doing-exactly-the-right-thing-calls-out-hate-and-anti-semitism-video.html
Good for him
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: RewardsAddict on March 26, 2020, 05:32:28 PM
Scroll down to the bottom to where it says report a policy violation.
Done.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 05:38:44 PM
From NJ.com

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/03/nj-cops-have-broken-up-more-than-a-dozen-illegal-gatherings-across-the-state-police-say.html?utm_content=nj_twitter_njdotcom&utm_campaign=njdotcom_sf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

"Officers have also broken up large gatherings in Lakewood, including weddings, but Grewal said that town was not an outlier. Several counties have had multiple violations, he said. Some people have also used those incidents to spew bigotry toward Jewish residents, Gov. Phil Murphy said Thursday at a press conference, because Lakewood has a large Orthodox population."
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 06:21:03 PM
Petition was removed by Change.org
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 26, 2020, 06:53:57 PM
Petition was removed by Change.org
Fantastic. Good work!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 07:27:20 PM
Petition was removed by Change.org
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 26, 2020, 07:29:26 PM
I wonder who the writer was...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 07:33:16 PM
Petition was removed by Change.org
not before close to 8k people signed. Kudos tho to change.org
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 26, 2020, 07:34:53 PM
not before close to 8k people signed. Kudos tho to change.org
Rise Up Ocean County had 19,000 followers before Facebook closed them down.. lots of people hate Jews. Lots and lots.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 07:41:49 PM
Rise Up Ocean County had 19,000 followers before Facebook closed them down.. lots of people hate Jews. Lots and lots.
yups. Their doing their job. Let’s make sure we do ours...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 10:07:24 PM
https://www.app.com/story/news/local/emergencies/2020/03/26/murphy-lakewood-anti-semitism-coronavirus/2920246001/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 11:01:48 PM
Here is a tweet and ALL the responses to it (so far). Everyone is a hater today.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 26, 2020, 11:48:21 PM
Here is a tweet and ALL the responses to it (so far). Everyone is a hater today.

I would also hate after seeing this
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 11:50:36 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 26, 2020, 11:58:22 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yuneeq on March 27, 2020, 10:35:37 AM
Petition was removed by Change.org

It was a ddf member (will update with name if he doesn't mind) that got it down, and here's how:

"I called the woman who started the petition.

We had a respectful conversation where I explained that she was misinformed as in reality everything in Lakewood is shut down. She had read news reports which she assumed to be true and was happy to hear that we ARE complying. I put her in touch with Mayor Coles who spoke with her - and she agreed to take down the petition!"
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 27, 2020, 10:38:07 AM
It was a ddf member (will update with name if he doesn't mind) that got it down, and here's how:

"I called the woman who started the petition.

We had a respectful conversation where I explained that she was misinformed as in reality everything in Lakewood is shut down. She had read news reports which she assumed to be true and was happy to hear that we ARE complying. I put her in touch with Mayor Coles who spoke with her - and she agreed to take down the petition!"
Then can you explain the picture in this post?
Perhaps she agreed to take it down but by then, Change.org already removed it. I would be surprised if Change.org wrote "After review we removed it" if it had already been taken down by the woman before.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yuneeq on March 27, 2020, 10:44:58 AM
Then can you explain the picture in this post?Perhaps she agreed to take it down but by then, Change.org already removed it. I would be surprised if Change.org wrote "After review we removed it" if it had already been taken down by the woman before.

The DDF'er spoke to her at around 3pm, it stayed up for a few more hours, as "Apparently you need Change.org to respond to a request to take it down". She was not able remove the petition on her own.

Edit: I'm sure there were requests from multiple people, but I'm sure it helped if she requested it herself.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 27, 2020, 10:46:01 AM
The DDF'er spoke to her at around 3pm, it stayed up for a few more hours, as "Apparently you need Change.org to respond to a request to take it down". She was not able remove the petition on her own.
That is correct. I once deleted a petition, it took about two business days for the petition to disappear.

Edit: Also, Change.org mandates that the host post an update to explain why they are deleting the petition. https://help.change.org/s/article/How-to-delete-your-petition?language=en

No update appeared. Perhaps she initiated the process but Change.org removed it due to concerns of bigotry and incitement.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 27, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
It was a ddf member (will update with name if he doesn't mind) that got it down, and here's how:

"I called the woman who started the petition.

We had a respectful conversation where I explained that she was misinformed as in reality everything in Lakewood is shut down. She had read news reports which she assumed to be true and was happy to hear that we ARE complying. I put her in touch with Mayor Coles who spoke with her - and she agreed to take down the petition!"
great work! Very scary how many thousands of people jump aboard a misinformed bandwagon based on heresay...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 27, 2020, 01:20:28 PM
great work! Very scary how many thousands of people jump aboard a misinformed bandwagon based on heresay...
See: blood libels, pogroms, Jewish history for the last few thousand years..
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 27, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 27, 2020, 04:06:46 PM
How can we get this animal fired?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 27, 2020, 04:35:43 PM
So much for all the people saying “at least the anti semites will be kept busy during coronavirus” :(
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on March 28, 2020, 09:02:49 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/breaking-howell-man-arrested-for-making-terroristic-threats-against-jews-in-lakewood.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 28, 2020, 09:04:20 PM
How can we get this animal fired?
would like to hear updates on this guy
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on March 28, 2020, 09:13:00 PM
.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 28, 2020, 09:15:08 PM
.
Wow!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 28, 2020, 09:20:51 PM
.
hes in jail but shouldn’t the starter of the change petition be charged with something? Look what comes out of these things... It’s reckless
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whYME on March 29, 2020, 01:37:27 AM
hes in jail but shouldn’t the starter of the change petition be charged with something?
Here in the USA we have this thing known as the first amendment...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on March 29, 2020, 01:40:34 AM
Here in the USA we have this thing known as the first amendment...
Which fortunately doesn’t cover incitement and threats of violence
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 29, 2020, 02:13:25 AM
?s=20
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 29, 2020, 10:39:52 AM
Which fortunately doesn’t cover incitement and threats of violence
Yes but the petition did not include threats of violence. THat was just a plain simple anti-semite ready to blast it out with zero knowledge.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Zevwolf on March 29, 2020, 04:58:32 PM
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/hundreds-gather-at-louisiana-church-flouting-coronavirus-ban-2020-03-29?mod=mw_latestnews
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 30, 2020, 10:57:31 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 31, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Great piece from the APP: https://www.app.com/story/news/health/2020/03/31/coronavirus-lakewood-residents-unfairly-singled-out-lawbreakers/5086904002/

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cgr on March 31, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
https://thejewishplatform.com/the-truth-about-lakewood-a-response-to-the-anti-semetic-myth/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 31, 2020, 01:35:31 PM

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 31, 2020, 03:07:21 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on March 31, 2020, 03:42:24 PM

I was fighting w them on twitter like crazy yesterday. These ppl inflame tensions over bogus bs stories
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on March 31, 2020, 04:17:28 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/video-the-truth-about-lakewood-baruch-perlowitz.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on March 31, 2020, 05:53:09 PM
Kurt Siegelin issued an apology: https://www.facebook.com/129592623729835/posts/im-going-to-start-by-apologizing-to-the-people-of-lakewood-in-vetting-a-story-i-/2951479658207770/

I'll post the whole thing in case someone can't access.
Quote
I’m going to start by apologizing to the people of Lakewood. In vetting a story, I screwed up yesterday. There were many reasons the tweets went out, but the responsibility is ultimately with me. It’s my account. I have a brand to protect. I regret it. I’m sorry for any pain or distrust the tweets created for residents who saw it. Mistakes were made.

Since this played out over twitter the last 24 hours, you here on facebook may not be aware of what happened. So here’s the background:

At 7pm yesterday from Newark, another anchor read a story about Toms River police pulling over a Lakewood school bus. Toms River police were working under the suspicion that a school in Lakewood was still operating and the bus was dropping off kids.

I was on set in Edison getting ready for a doctor Q&A we do nightly at 7:15. Hearing the story was surprising. There had been two instances of social distancing violations in the past 36 hours in Lakewood. I was aware of this. When I questioned Governor Murphy just two hours before, I even asked him about Lakewood. But this? Given our state lock down and schools being closed for a couple weeks now, for someone to still be operating a school seemed unfathomable. My first inclination was to think the story was incorrect in some way. A couple emails between myself a producer went out and I wound up on reporter Jim Murdock’s facebook page. Know this about Jim, he has impeccable sources in the Ocean County area. The story was on his page as we had explained it on air at 7pm. So for as stunning as it was, I was now very inclined to believe it. There was also video of a bus rolling through a neighborhood that we played on air. There was a statement from Toms River police. They had stopped a bus around 2pm and they suspected a school was still open. I then found out that busses do routinely drive through Toms River to drop off meals for families, however that typically happens in the morning hours through noon. So why is a bus being stopped at 2pm? Meal delivery should be over. Too many things were pointing to the veracity of the Toms River police statement.

I then sent the tweet which has caused the problem. I since deleted it but the tweet read:

NEW…
Police in Toms River stop a school bus full of kids from Lakewood. Apparently the school is still “open” despite mandatory shutdown. See the video on News 12 New Jersey. Some stills… (attached were two pictures of the bus in a neighborhood from Friday.)

There are two problems with the tweet.

First, the words “full of kids.” Now, we knew there were children on the bus during the 2pm police stop. They turned out to be the bus driver’s kids. The bus was not full and I shouldn’t have written it. I wasn’t there and couldn’t confirm an actual number. The bus was believed by police to be making afternoon drop offs, so at one point, it was full as full is for that route at least in my mind. That’s why I wrote that.

Secondly, the word “apparently.” I used that a hedge because I could not verify the story. I was reporting what Toms River police suspected. That’s why I put "open" in quotes. That was their language in their email. However, not everyone takes the word “apparently” the same as I intended. Someone wrote “That’s not apparent at all.” True. A better word would have been “allegedly.” But at that point, it’s 7:15. I’m doing the Q&A for the next 15 minutes. I can’t delete or change the tweet. I can't look at social media.

When I get back to my desk at 7:30, the mentions on twitter have begun. It was ugly stuff. I can judge how a tweet is standing up based on the mentions. The pushback was extreme and it only grew through the night, morning, and daytime today. There were plenty of people who believed it. There were plenty of people saying they were not surprised. But I was focused on those who said the info is incorrect. Those are the mentions that matter. I want to know how they know that? Why is it incorrect? Why would Toms River police send us something not on point?

I did a facebook search of “Lakewood school bus” and found another set of videos of school busses driving around town. The hour of the post isn’t listed, so that’s confirmation of nothing, but what those videos told me was that there is there is an agenda and division in Lakewood. I have never been to Lakewood. But this was a quick education. And the tweet (with my follow ups) was only causing upset in the community. At one point, I wrote that I can’t control how people react to information, but seeing the reaction was honestly pretty scary.

In the end, the police investigation is ongoing, but it will likely conclude that there was not an open school in town and the busses were indeed delivering food. The Lakewood mayor said as much today. You can ask ‘why are they using a school bus for that?’ Or ‘why are they using kids to go up to the door?’ It doesn’t matter. The story I posted on twitter was incorrect. The conclusions people drew from that tweet were incorrect. The (at times) vile posts directed at people in Lakewood were out of line, but created by my tweet. Despite police suspicions — how this all began — it turned out to be unfounded. And you can’t unring the bell.

Here’s what I wonder and worry about. Was it all a media setup? Why was someone filming a school bus last Friday in a neighborhood? Why are there a bunch of pictures and videos on facebook of school busses around town any given day? Are these people outraged at a social distancing violation or angry that some seem above the law or are they pushing an anti-semitic agenda? Do they just not know Lakewood busses deliver meals? The motivations range person to person. My concern through this (and now): The calls of complaint to police about busses in town and the video shot Friday — are these people wishing harm on the Jewish community? I don’t know. But there’s enough evidence from the feedback I got on twitter, that yes, it could very well be. In which case, I got played. Toms River police got played. We both fell right in line with their disgusting narrative and indirectly perpetrated those views by generating the negative reaction the story got. That’s the greatest regret here.

Police are authorities we typically trust. Statements are confirmation. If a prosecutor issues a press release that they are charging someone, we have to believe that. If cops say they’re investigating, we have to believe that. In this case, I should have realized the community we are talking about gets enough bad press. And this was only going to add to it. And I’ll say this, Toms River police should have realized the same. They should have been quicker out with a statement explaining what their investigation found. Lakewood police should have issued a statement. It shouldn’t have waited 20 hours.

I will close with this. The Society of Professional Journalists has a list of ethics. One of the foundational concepts is “Minimize Harm.” Specifically they write, “Balance the public’s need for information against potential harm or discomfort.” And, “Show compassion for those who may be affected by news coverage. Consider cultural differences in approach and treatment.” To think I failed here cuts deep. I must do better.

Bottom line. I am sorry I worded the tweet the way I did. I’m sorry for the reaction it created. None of that was intended in the moment. More care needed to be paid. There needed to be more consideration for how the tweet would be perceived. The tweet created a lot of reaction and none of it was positive relative the coronavirus fight. If I have any agenda, it’s that. We all need to follow social distancing. I have sent outraged individuals on twitter the link to this post. I hope they read this and accept my apology.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on March 31, 2020, 05:59:45 PM
I give him credit
Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yammer on March 31, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
I give him credit
Thanks for sharing
+1
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on March 31, 2020, 06:33:35 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on March 31, 2020, 06:48:54 PM
Kurt Siegelin issued an apology: https://www.facebook.com/129592623729835/posts/im-going-to-start-by-apologizing-to-the-people-of-lakewood-in-vetting-a-story-i-/2951479658207770/

I'll post the whole thing in case someone can't access.

People should give him the credit he deserves either on Facebook or at the tweet here

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: TimT on March 31, 2020, 07:47:15 PM
The Society of Professional Journalists has a list of ethics. One of the foundational concepts is “Minimize Harm.” Specifically they write, “Balance the public’s need for information against potential harm or discomfort.” And, “Show compassion for those who may be affected by news coverage. Consider cultural differences in approach and treatment.”

Kurt should share this with his fellow newsmen. Might come as a shock to many of them.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: moko on April 01, 2020, 06:58:08 AM
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-kiryat-yearim-successfully-kicks-coronavirus-out-1001324115
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 01, 2020, 07:54:59 AM
https://www.app.com/story/news/2020/04/01/coronavirus-lakewood-video-aims-show-jewish-residents-follow-lockdown-rules/5097595002/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on April 01, 2020, 08:18:45 AM
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/police-ask-group-to-leave-a-jewish-ritual-bath-in-cote-saint-luc-1.4877063
Canadians are taking this too far...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 01, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on April 02, 2020, 10:07:36 AM
https://matzav.com/anti-semitism-alive-and-well-in-lakewood-even-in-a-world-crisis/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 02, 2020, 02:47:10 PM
https://matzav.com/anti-semitism-alive-and-well-in-lakewood-even-in-a-world-crisis/
I take exception to the headline "even" in a world crisis. Unfortunately history has shown that antisemitism rears its ugly head
"especially" during a crisis.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 02, 2020, 02:52:06 PM
And here is another winner.

https://matzav.com/another-media-police-anti-orthodox-doozy-99-year-old-gets-summons-at-wedding-except-that-hes-23-and-it-was-an-engagement/

Don't hold your breath waiting for the apology for this one.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 02, 2020, 10:20:42 PM
Kurt Siegelin issued an apology: https://www.facebook.com/129592623729835/posts/im-going-to-start-by-apologizing-to-the-people-of-lakewood-in-vetting-a-story-i-/2951479658207770/

I'll post the whole thing in case someone can't access.
This News 12 reporter just posted a long update on Facebook. Really worth the read. He writes how he looked into the whole school bus thing. He criticizes the prosecutor and a lot more. Here's a link, and I'll post the whole thing.
https://www.facebook.com/kurtnews12/posts/2956048467750889?__tn__=K-R

Quote
The school buses were on the road again today in Lakewood and Toms River. No kids this time, just adults. There were new signs in the windows and banners on the side. Inside, row after row of boxes of food. The delivery of the free and reduced lunch meals to Jewish students continues unabated. And so do the police stops. Two more buses were pulled over before dawn this morning as part of an ongoing Ocean County Prosecutor's Office investigation. Authorities continue to look for evidence of an open school in Lakewood. They've found nothing. They have only random videos of meal delivery buses and too much speculation from residents and those with other motivations about what the Jewish community is up to.

This morning we got the news of a funeral gathering in Lakewood. It seems, like Newark, the news about social distancing infractions originate daily from here. In fairness, these infractions should only condemn the indiviudals responsible. Somehow in Lakewood, it seems the entire Jewish community is indicted with each announcement.

Listen, we're in a pandemic. None of us have ever dealt with this. Unconventional measures are being taken everywhere. In Lakewood and Toms River, school buses are on the road delivering meals. Maybe it's as simple as there was no public awareness that this was going to happen. Something was missed and the announcement never went out. Honestly, I don't care where you live. Clifton, Lopatcong, Robbinsville. If you saw a school bus on your block every morning, you'd probably be curious as well. Schools are closed, so why the bus? Maybe that's all this is. Maybe Lakewood schools did a poor job of getting the word out. If our News 12 original story or my tweet Monday didn't alert the public, maybe those new signs and banners will. One can hope it was all as simple as a lack of understanding. Of course, it could also be something else.

I spoke to one resident who didn't want to give his name. "It's a cat and mouse game," he said. "There are people trying very hard to catch the Orthodox community. It's a handful of people who are doing this. Residents (in Toms River) are good people, but they're being fed misinformation."

Indeed. How about the sneakily edited video of a bus that aired on News 12 Monday? It was a black and white clip that only showed a child running to the bus. It was forwarded to the police as if to show 'Look, kids getting on the bus going to school'. Add the siren emojis! Well, had you seen the entire clip, you would have seen the child get off the bus with a meal, go hand it off and then return to the bus. But that's not what the cops, us or viewers got. Who knows what is in the heart of the person who purposefully edited the video that way and forwarded it on. Sadly, you can probably guess.

I've now seen all of Friday's video, Monday's videos and this morning's. These are the facts. In just about every instance where kids were present, they are the sons of the bus driver and not regular students. The only dropoff and pickup has to do with the meals as the buses follow their routes. I can tell you the ongoing prosecutor investigation should bear this out. As I write this on Thursday afternoon, there is zero compeling evidence of an open school. Nothing. Does something come up tomorrow? Next week? I sincerely doubt it, but the investigation continues and they have to do what they do. As of right now, there's nothing. The only evidence of an open school comes from the slew of videos posted online. Those videos show buses on the road. Again, indicative of nothing other than the meal delivery. Plenty of residents have questioned why they're on the road and they've made assumptions. There's your evidence. It's led nowhere. Police are asking for Ring doorbell and home surveillance video. Those videos will show the same thing. A bus going down the street, a kid or adult running out with food, the handoff and then them coming back before the bus drives on.

Toms River police were towing the county proseuctor line today. Their statement: "The invesigation is still being conducted through the prosecutor's office. There are multiple sources being investigated at this time including witness statements that we are trying to corroborate. We want to make sure the investigation is complete before releasing additional information."

Honestly, I would have liked a lot more from them, either on or off the record. They wouldn't budge. They continue to see no problem with the statement they issued Monday. I would hope they have a problem with the firestorm which ensued. What's baffling is they didn't foresee how the media would react and, in turn, the public. The outrage. The vitriol. The blatent anti-semitism which emerged all across social media as the story made the rounds. Police will blame the media. Ok, but I laugh. They send out an email about an open school investigation, make no mention of the meal delivery and wipe their hands of it? Ok. Did they really not think the media would not do a story on that? Nice job living your tone deaf life. In fairness, Toms River cops can't go far from the county statement, but it sure puts Chief Little and his officers in a difficult position. They didn't start this. Their part in this was strictly at the behest of the prosecutor. But they're getting the phone calls right now too. They're getting the manipulated videos, the erroneous eyewitness statements, the evidence...of nothing.

Another email this afternoon went to the prosecutor's office. I asked for an update. Crickets. They don't owe us anything, but after this week and what's transpired, maybe they owe everybody a lot more. And the sooner the better.

Meantime, the buses roll on. At one of the stops in Lakewood this morning, a cop came through the doors with a flashlight. He looked quickly around, flashing his light towards the back. He saw no kids, only food boxes. The adult volunteer asked the officer, "I hear a lot of people complaining?" The officer paused at the bottom of the steps, "Yeah," he said. He then mentioned someone on that block who's been calling them, citing the coverage on channel 12. He might as well have named me. Well, I can tell you, I'll post the update when the prosecutor announces it, but this is the end for me. I'm tired. I'm angry. I'm done. I'm tired of the animosity seen on social media this week. I'm angry to think a hate group may have orchestrated all of this. And I'm done because I'm convinced of what happened and more importantly what didn't. Just as the prosecutor's office should be very soon now.

(Some of the evidence I've seen this week that the buses are only being used for food delivery. These are all stills from videos. And the newly marked up buses.)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 12:28:30 AM

The replies to this tweet.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 12:35:46 AM
Is the video real?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whYME on April 03, 2020, 12:37:03 AM
Here's (https://i.gyazo.com/204bd836e403f6c11a076c79bed4b2e1.png) an exclusive picture of chassidim crowded in a shul for davening earlier today
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 12:40:31 AM
Is the video real?
Does it matter?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on April 03, 2020, 12:42:30 AM
The replies to this tweet.

Twitter is a garbage place, for garbage people, to spew garbage nonsense.
Youll see garbage replys on literally every tweet. It's just what the platform is.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 12:44:07 AM
Twitter is a garbage place, for garbage people, to spew garbage nonsense.
If you think that's not a reflection of real life, well, I hate to say it, but you need to get out more (figuratively! Stay home!)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 12:46:09 AM
Does it matter?
Yes it matters.
I am asking if this actually happened or is it another thing the media got wrong like the school bus.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on April 03, 2020, 12:46:37 AM
If you think that's not a reflection of real life, well, I hate to say it, but you need to get out more (figuratively! Stay home!)
Antisemitism is real.
But these people replying there don't hate us more than before.
Look at all their replies.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 12:47:51 AM
Antisemitism is real.
But these people replying there don't hate us more than before.
Look at all their replies.
Oh, I don't think Corona is making new anti Semites. Just pointing out the latest manifestation.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on April 03, 2020, 12:56:43 AM
The replies to this tweet.


I don't have the link, but the Town of Fallsburgh supervisor wrote a really nice post about how they worked with the community to arrange the levaya for the wife of the community Rabbi. (Everyone stayed in cars etc).

The comments were...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 12:58:43 AM
Yes it matters.
I am asking if this actually happened or is it another thing the media got wrong like the school bus.
I'll assume the video is real. No, it doesn't matter. There could be 1000 people coughing all over each other. It still would not excuse a single one of those replies which are anti Semitic trash.

You cannot paint an entire community or religion with one brush.

I don't know what's going on in Borough Park, but in Crown Heights we've buried way too many people this week. I saw pictures of some burials with no one besides the 3 members of the burial society dressed in hazmat suits. Children are not even attending their own parents funerals in some cases.

Thousands of people would have gone to Rabbi Yisroel friedman's funeral yesterday, instead the hearse drove through the neighborhood as everyone paid respects from their porches, with no more than 2-3 people standing on the streets at any one spot.

If one family or 25 individuals do something stupid in a time of mourning, and all you can think of is that Jews "own the city" and "Jews gave us Corona", I mean come on, do I need to explain why that's a problem?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cmey on April 03, 2020, 12:58:48 AM
This News 12 reporter just posted a long update on Facebook. Really worth the read. He writes how he looked into the whole school bus thing. He criticizes the prosecutor and a lot more. Here's a link, and I'll post the whole thing.
https://www.facebook.com/kurtnews12/posts/2956048467750889?__tn__=K-R

And the Ocean county sheriff got in an “emergency request” for 3 $30,000 mobile surveillance cameras for the whole Ocean County to put them in areas where people are likely to congregate. 3 for the whole county. And they were busy setting one up today where? 14th st in Lakewood. Enough already. Time to let the OC Prosecutor and OC Sheriffs office know that we’ve had it with being blatantly targeted and harassed.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 01:03:11 AM
I'll assume the video is real. No, it doesn't matter. There could be 1000 people coughing all over each other. It still would not excuse a single one of those replies which are anti Semitic trash.
I didn't read the comments and won't. I am not excusing anything. I was just asking if the media screwed up again?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on April 03, 2020, 01:07:38 AM
I don't have the link, but the Town of Fallsburgh wrote a really nice post about how they worked with the community to arrange the levaya for the wife of the community Rabbi. (Everyone stayed in cars etc).

The comments were...
Exactly my point.
Any post on any person or group will be full of garbage.
Even if you write something good, the haters will jump in with their garbage.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 01:09:04 AM
I didn't read the comments and won't. I am not excusing anything. I was just asking if the media screwed up again?
Is the video real? Likely. Is it the media channel's fault that hundreds of anti Semites are using their report to post their anti semitism? Maybe.

There were more people in parks playing basketball at any one time than there were at this funeral. (until Cuomo closed them this week).

There are more joggers around prospect Park not practicing social distancing than the were in this video.

What happened at the funeral was wrong. It shouldn't be done and hasn't been done for the most part (to the best of my knowledge). But the media's rush to post these videos rather than videos of non Chassidic Jews congregating all over the same city is, shall we say, telling.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 01:13:37 AM
But the media's rush to post these videos rather than videos of non Chassidic Jews congregating all over the same city is, shall we say, telling.
Not sure what news you are watching. I see all kinds of large congregations all over the place. Last Sunday some moron held a church service that was all over the news.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 01:17:07 AM
Not sure what news you are watching. I see all kinds of large congregations all over the place. Last Sunday some moron held a church service that was all over the news.
Go through the tweets of the same account and find me one.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 01:27:14 AM
Go through the tweets of the same account and find me one.
I am not disputing what you are saying. I am not going to read a bunch of garbage.
I was just pointing out there is these large congregations all the time in the news from Florida/California beaches, NYC parks, Churches holding services and other situations.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 01:35:09 AM
I am not disputing what you are saying. I am not going to read a bunch of garbage.
I was just pointing out there is these large congregations all the time in the news from Florida/California beaches, NYC parks, Churches holding services and other situations.
Big difference with local news
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 03, 2020, 01:43:31 AM
Maybe it's time for PPL to call or email thier local
PD
COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
PRESS
PROSECUTORS OFFICE
And politely let them know your unsatisfied with thier
Biased investigations
Biased enforcement of law
Biased interpretation of facts
Investigate to the truth

I personally did it a few times but if they would get 100's of such requests they would change thier attitude and tone.

It's a long discussion exactly how gov operates but in short it's based on fear of vote and press negativity.


Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 03, 2020, 08:22:02 AM
Not sure what news you are watching. I see all kinds of large congregations all over the place. Last Sunday some moron held a church service that was all over the news.
Imagine if someone would reply to your post with the following:
"Stupid Christians!!! They think they run the world!! and they are trying to kill us again, just like they did during the holocaust and the inquisition. The police should go down to every church in the country and lock up those disgusting roaches before they ruin the world for us."

This would not be an exaggeration - Numerous posts like this one, directed at Jews, appear after stories of Jews breaking the law. That group is maybe .02 percent of Brooklyn's Jewish population. (Do the math.) But the response is pointed at all Jews. That is unabashed bigotry and antisemitism.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 09:05:05 AM
Imagine if someone would reply to your post with the following:
"Stupid Christians!!! They think they run the world!! and they are trying to kill us again, just like they did during the holocaust and the inquisition. The police should go down to every church in the country and lock up those disgusting roaches before they ruin the world for us."

This would not be an exaggeration - Numerous posts like this one, directed at Jews, appear after stories of Jews breaking the law. That group is maybe .02 percent of Brooklyn's Jewish population. (Do the math.) But the response is pointed at all Jews. That is unabashed bigotry and antisemitism.

He gets it, he's just saying that the media stories about Jews aren't being seen in other parts of the country. It's pretty much isolated to the NY/NJ area, along with anti-Charedi sentiment in Israel. That doesn't make the anti-Semitism better, just not as widespread as it would appear to those in the Tri-state area.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:09:29 AM
That is unabashed bigotry and antisemitism.
Ok what's your point?
I don't understand that?
I don't know what's happening?
I am insensitive to bigotry and anti-Semitism?
I haven't seen massive amount of bigotry, anti-Semitism and racism in my life time?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
He gets it, he's just saying that the media stories about Jews aren't being seen in other parts of the country. It's pretty much isolated to the NY/NJ area, along with anti-Charedi sentiment in Israel. That doesn't make the anti-Semitism better, just not as widespread as it would appear to those in the Tri-state area.
But they are. An article about Israel was the cover story on CNN. The cover story from the whole world.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 03, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
Ok what's your point?
I don't understand that?
I don't know what's happening?
I am insensitive to bigotry and anti-Semitism?
I haven't seen massive amount of bigotry, anti-Semitism and racism in my life time?
Sorry I wan't clear. I wan't criticizing your post, nor was I directing my post toward you. I was using your statement about the church to give the folks reading this an example of what is happening thousands of time a day on Twitter.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 10:02:42 AM
Sorry I wan't clear. I wan't criticizing your post, nor was I directing my post toward you. I was using your statement about the church to give the folks reading this an example of what is happening thousands of time a day on Twitter.
You quote me and use Christians as an example. If the post wasn't directed at me who was it directed at?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 03, 2020, 10:12:41 AM
You quote me and use Christians as an example. If the post wasn't directed at me who was it directed at?
You wrote that you saw a report of a church being open. I was responding to that with the name nonsense that haters to about such reports in the Jewish community. Just like one report about a Jewish gathering elicits condemnation of all Jews, I was trying to write an equivalent about Christians. Should one report of a church elicit condemnation of all Christians?? Of course not. But for Jews, the haters think it's okay to think that.

Sorry, the post wasn't explained carefully enough. I would've written the exact post even if it was Dan who made the reference to a church.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 03, 2020, 10:16:56 AM
You wrote that you saw a report of a church being open. I was responding to that with the name nonsense that haters to about such reports in the Jewish community. Just like one report about a Jewish gathering elicits condemnation of all Jews, I was trying to write an equivalent about Christians. Should one report of a church elicit condemnation of all Christians?? Of course not. But for Jews, the haters think it's okay to think that.

Sorry, the post wasn't explained carefully enough. I would've written the exact post even if it was Dan who made the reference to a church.
I was trying to make a general point. If you took it personally, please forgive me. I did not mean anyone specifically. I could've used Muslims, Hindus, or any other demographic that has a lot of people to portray the point.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 03, 2020, 10:19:23 AM
https://www.app.com/story/opinion/columnists/2020/04/03/coronavirus-open-letter-lakewood-community/2938827001/

Quote
OPINION
Coronavirus: An open letter to the Lakewood community
By Rabbi Moshe Rotberg

As a resident and rabbi in beautiful Toms River, I would like to share a few thoughts to my friends in Lakewood. As someone who was born in Paul Kimball Hospital in Lakewood and spent the first 38 years of my life there, I feel like I have some perspective.

Firstly, I am sorry for that fact that you are right now a beleaguered community. You are a close-knit community and each death shoots a hole into your collective hearts as you are all family. Pillars of your community suddenly are no longer amongst the living. I know that you are shattered.

Your funerals with thousands of people in attendance and eulogies respecting the deceased are now a teleconferenced speaker with a lone voice, if that.  I am sorry that there are so many orphans who usually get a week of mourning through shiva, and now our rabbis ruled that no one can come to console you in person, to protect the public.

That little child with large brown eyes full of tears and shock will be comforted someday; for now, I have no words. To the young wife going to have her baby, not knowing whether her ventilated husband is alive, I can only cry for your pain.

To the community leaders who closed down the shuls (synagogues and study halls) even before the state required you to, I commend you. The mothers and fathers holed up in their small apartment without a backyard with their large families for weeks already without a TV, video games or even internet, I celebrate your commitment to keeping them and all of us as safe as possible.

More than anything to my brothers on Hatzolah (volunteer EMT squad), the whole Jewish nation is standing in awe. Without getting one dollar in salary or a pension, you are responding to hundreds of calls with such bravery. You put your life at risk as you and your volunteer paramedics run into home after home. Your comforting empathy and messages of hope, as you send off those patients who need to be transported to the hospital not knowing if they will ever come out, is jaw dropping. To the doctors and rabbis sick at home or in the hospital with COVID-19 yet still serving the community in any possible capacity, you are fulfilling your mission statement of dedication.

Thank you Rabbi Stein and Rabbi Sigfried for donating 15 ventilators to local hospitals. That is truly special of you. Thank you to my many friends in Lakewood and Toms River for donating hundreds and thousands of much-needed supplies to the hospitals and first responders helping to save lives. You understand that there is a “Time to Give and a Time to Take.” Now is time to give.

As I drive through Lakewood for an emergency and I see a shuttered town, it tugs on my heart. The vibrant town is silent. There are no students running to the study halls, no traffic and no children. Even at the busiest time of the Jewish year, pre-Pesach (Passover), BMG, which is open 24/7, 365 days a year, is closed for the first time in history. I can’t fathom the difficulty of keeping approximately 52,000 children and teenagers at home.

This year Pesach will not be the same either. You will not be at the seder with your parents, grandparents and great grandparents as usual. It is what would be for the rest of the world canceling Thanksgiving. Young couples will hole up in small apartments, sad and lonely without their family and community to bond with. Despite that, thank you Lakewood rabbis for protecting your communities with edicts more stringent than that of the state. Your robocalls, letters and emails are saving lives. You are protecting everyone by recognizing your own unique situation.

Most of the world can see the same thing I see; all they need to do is drive through Lakewood. Sadly though, most won’t. They will read a phony story about schools being open, and three unfortunate stories of a collective 100 or so people (of your over 100,000 residents) who didn’t stick to the rules, and they will paint you with that broad brush.

I see what you see and hear what you hear. You are not individual heroes in their eyes. Those three or four stories trumpeted about the internet will be how you are looked at. To them, Lakewood is bustling; it's business as usual. They will judge you because they are misled into thinking that way, while others are thrilled to validate themselves for hating you already. This is part of your history and may never fully stop. Thankfully, judging all Latinos, African Americans, Asians, Muslims, etc., by the actions of a handful of them is not acceptable anymore for the most part. Maybe one day this will hold true for your community as well.

The fact that you all came together as a community on the festival of Purim before anyone realizing that COVID-19 was here, and the fact that you are a close community in general with many children, may have hurt you more than other communities and towns at this time. However, it will help you recover and rebuild as well. So, try to avoid the social media and the hate; they don’t want to see the truth. Your friends do, because they care to see the truth. We weep with you even though it seems you are crying alone. We pray for you and we will rejoice in your rebirth one day very soon hopefully.

Rabbi Moshe Rotberg lives in Toms River.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 10:20:40 AM
I was trying to make a general point. If you took it personally, please forgive me. I did not mean anyone specifically. I could've used Muslims, Hindus, or any other demographic that has a lot of people to portray the point.
Was just trying to understand your point.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
And the Ocean county sheriff got in an “emergency request” for 3 $30,000 mobile surveillance cameras for the whole Ocean County to put them in areas where people are likely to congregate. 3 for the whole county. And they were busy setting one up today where? 14th st in Lakewood. Enough already. Time to let the OC Prosecutor and OC Sheriffs office know that we’ve had it with being blatantly targeted and harassed.
Link?

14th street is simply ridiculous. I haven't seen gatherings on 14th street in years other than one-off events in people's homes. Why would anyone think that this was a hot spot?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cmey on April 03, 2020, 12:22:06 PM
Link?

14th street is simply ridiculous. I haven't seen gatherings on 14th street in years other than one-off events in people's homes. Why would anyone think that this was a hot spot?

They spent $30,000 of taxpayer money not to buy another Respirator or oxygen concentrator, but to put the camera on 14th and Madison pointed at the shuttered Bais Faiga because the Sheriffs department obviously believes the lies that weddings and events are still taking place.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 03, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 01:01:04 PM
They spent $30,000 of taxpayer money not to buy another Respirator or oxygen concentrator, but to put the camera on 14th and Madison pointed at the shuttered Bais Faiga because the Sheriffs department obviously believes the lies that weddings and events are still taking place.

Source? Link? Something?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: AsherO on April 03, 2020, 01:42:10 PM

Tone deaf NYPD
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cmey on April 03, 2020, 02:20:37 PM
Source? Link? Something?
Here’s part of it:

https://www.app.com/story/news/local/ocean-county/2020/04/02/coronavirus-ocean-county-our-hospitals-full-right-now-sheriff-tells-freeholders/5110639002/

“Col. Patrick J. Callahan, New Jersey State Police superintendent, announced at the state’s daily press briefing Wednesday a “partnership to supplement” Lakewood’s efforts to “ensure 100 percent compliance” with Gov. Phil Murphy’s executive order to stay at home and prohibit large social gatherings. The joint effort is between the State Police, Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office and Sheriff’s Office, as well as Lakewood police.


The effort is to tamp down on illegal gatherings in Lakewood, which has been an issue in Ocean County’s largest town and New Jersey’s fifth-largest town, with an estimated population of 102,682.

In one the latest incidents in Lakewood on Tuesday, police broke up an engagement party, charging ten adults, including a 99-year-old man, with violating the statewide order on social distancing.

In another incident on Wednesday night, police dispersed a group of 60 to 70 mourners who had gathered for a funeral on the corner of Madison Avenue and Eighth Street.

Daniel E. Regenye, Ocean County's health officer, said Wednesday that the health department has been “getting a lot of calls and questions” related to issues of noncompliance of social distancing and self-isolation in the county.

“We’re directing it to local police departments,” Regenye said.

Additionally, Freeholder Jack Kelly, director of law and public safety on the five-member, all-Republican board, has asked the panel to approve an emergency request from the sheriff to purchase three $30,000 mobile surveillance cameras.

The equipment is to be positioned in places within the county where members of the public are likely to congregate, particularly with the warm weather weeks away, Mastronardy said.”





Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 02:33:01 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 03, 2020, 03:08:34 PM
all the responses (minus 1)are about Lakewood’s not listening. Sick.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 03, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
They're ordering Jews in and around Tosh to stay home, non Jews are free to leave their house.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 03, 2020, 04:21:55 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 01:26:10 PM
Not sure what news you are watching. I see all kinds of large congregations all over the place. Last Sunday some moron held a church service that was all over the news.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/at-least-70-people-infected-with-coronavirus-linked-to-a-single-church-health-officials-say/ar-BB12973o?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: chevron on April 04, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
This showed up on my Google feed

https://riseupoceancounty.com/f/a-carnival-in-lakewood-in-april-this-is-outrageous

What's this ?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 04, 2020, 08:54:40 PM
This showed up on my Google feed

https://riseupoceancounty.com/f/a-carnival-in-lakewood-in-april-this-is-outrageous

What's this ?
Rise Up Ocean County showing up in your feed is always a bad sign
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on April 04, 2020, 08:56:11 PM
https://matzav.com/day-after-announcing-drive-thru-carnival-for-chol-hamoed-dr-rich-roberts-calls-it-off/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: chevron on April 04, 2020, 08:59:26 PM
Rise Up Ocean County showing up in your feed is always a bad sign

I have no idea what it is and I've never seen it before
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 04, 2020, 09:03:31 PM
This showed up on my Google feed

https://riseupoceancounty.com/f/a-carnival-in-lakewood-in-april-this-is-outrageous

What's this ?
He was going to make a "carnival" by driving through in a car and picking up candy and toys, but it has since been postponed/canceled.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 09:14:18 PM
He was going to make a "carnival" by driving through in a car and picking up candy and toys, but it has since been postponed/canceled.
Is this doctor someone who is taken seriously in the community or looked as a nutcase?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 04, 2020, 09:17:11 PM
Is this doctor someone who is taken seriously in the community or looked as a nutcase?
his carnival are definitely taken seriously
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 09:21:30 PM
his carnival are definitely taken seriously
Can someone translate this?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cmey on April 04, 2020, 09:24:06 PM
He was going to make a "carnival" by driving through in a car and picking up candy and toys, but it has since been postponed/canceled.

Because hundreds of calls were made by RUOC to local congressmen and officials complaining about it. Yimach Shemam.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cgr on April 04, 2020, 09:26:18 PM
https://thejewishplatform.com/the-truth-about-lakewood-a-response-to-the-anti-semetic-myth/

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/04/were-some-in-lakewoods-jewish-community-irresponsible-yes-are-most-no-rabbi-says.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on April 04, 2020, 09:37:09 PM
Can someone translate this?
Many many families look forward to these carnivals every year
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 09:38:21 PM
Many many families look forward to these carnivals every year
Ok got it.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 04, 2020, 09:57:35 PM
Is this doctor someone who is taken seriously in the community or looked as a nutcase?
Look him up. This anti-semitic group has an ax to grind with him. He has been very influential in thwarting them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Roberts_(pharmaceutical_executive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Roberts_(pharmaceutical_executive))
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc4IMNU5pvTuLHC8FIVktBg (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc4IMNU5pvTuLHC8FIVktBg)
He makes these free carnivals each holiday. For this year the entire thing was going to be that someone wearing protective gear and regularly sanitizing there gloves was going to toss some candy and a toy through the windows of cars.
He personally has been isolating for about a month and had cancelled a very popular purim party.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 04, 2020, 10:03:08 PM
Can someone translate this?
He provides (and has been doing this for many years) a free carnival every chol hamoed for local families as a community service. Many families benefit from this.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 04, 2020, 10:08:40 PM
I have no idea what it is and I've never seen it before
Rise up ocean county is a bunch of hatemongers who are very occupied with trying to stop the spread of the jewish community in Toms River and Jackson NJ. They spread hate over the internet try to influence zoning laws etc etc.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 04, 2020, 10:10:07 PM
I have no idea what it is and I've never seen it before
Rise Up Ocean County is a hate group targeting Lakewood. It was condemned by Gov. Murphy and AG Grewal. Their page was kicked off by Facebook and Instagram but it still operates on their own website and a little on Twitter.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 04, 2020, 10:13:50 PM
Imagine if someone would reply to your post with the following:
"Stupid Christians!!! They think they run the world!! and they are trying to kill us again, just like they did during the holocaust and the inquisition. The police should go down to every church in the country and lock up those disgusting roaches before they ruin the world for us."

This would not be an exaggeration - Numerous posts like this one, directed at Jews, appear after stories of Jews breaking the law. That group is maybe .02 percent of Brooklyn's Jewish population. (Do the math.) But the response is pointed at all Jews. That is unabashed bigotry and antisemitism.
I was trying to say this:
Quote from: NJ.com https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/04/were-some-in-lakewoods-jewish-community-irresponsible-yes-are-most-no-rabbi-says.html
To be sure, some among the Haredi are making bad decisions and they deserve whatever punishment the law deems appropriate. But to “demonize” them, as my friend Prof. David Myers wrote in a Forward article earlier this week, is both unfair and dangerous. It is akin to saying Brady Sluter is a typical member of Gen Z, or Pastor Howard-Browne is emblematic of all Christians.

Yes, sorry for not letting this conversation die.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 04, 2020, 10:16:36 PM
The stories I hear coming out of Jersey Shore medical center would give mr pause if I ever had to go there. The non-jewish nurses are complaining that they have 4 out of 5 Jewish patients with COVID cursing the Jewish nurses out who are in fact treating 4 out of 5 non-jewish With COVID.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 10:28:27 PM
He provides (and has been doing this for many years) a free carnival every chol hamoed for local families as a community service. Many families benefit from this.
He should have known even he could make it 100% safe it was bad idea. No need to give the anti-Semites more ammo.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 04, 2020, 10:41:31 PM
He should have known even he could make it 100% safe it was bad idea. No need to give the anti-Semites more ammo.
He also shouldn't breathe since that will also give them ammo.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 04, 2020, 10:47:13 PM
He also shouldn't breathe since that will also give them ammo.
Bullseye.

We should also disband Hatzalah.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 10:54:18 PM
Bullseye.
I can spend 100 pages explaining why this response is detrimental to combat anti-Semitism but you still wouldn't see my point so I won't even try.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 04, 2020, 10:59:38 PM
I can spend 100 pages explaining why this response is detrimental to combat anti-Semitism but you still wouldn't see my point so I won't even try.
I can spend 100 pages (and I may have already) explaining why it's anti Semitic to blame Jews for anti semitism or why it's anti Semitic to make Jews behave differently to appease anti Semites, but clearly you don't see that point.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 04, 2020, 11:04:09 PM
I can spend 100 pages (and I may have already) explaining why it's anti Semitic to blame Jews for anti semitism or why it's anti Semitic to make Jews behave differently to appease anti Semites, but clearly you don't see that point.
In the same video that they quote as having said that it was done in consult with local officials he discusses how the whole thing is drove through without anyone getting out of the car. The entire issue is that he used the word carnival instead of toy distribution.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 11:04:13 PM
I can spend 100 pages (and I may have already) explaining why it's anti Semitic to blame Jews for anti semitism or why it's anti Semitic to make Jews behave differently to appease anti Semites, but clearly you don't see that point.
I see your point.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 12:33:09 AM
I reported them, please everyone take a minute to do the same.

The allegations are completely false. Lakewood has on the whole been way MORE vigilant than the rest of Ocean County for the last week, preceding even the governor’s executive order. Also, there is a lot of anti Semitic sentiment being expressed in the comments, including some from ostensible health care workers. I fear they will believe this drivel and withhold some of their attention and care, even subconsciously. We cannot allow this to happen.

Please take a moment to report the violations to change.org. It is clearly defamatory, hate speech, and false and misleading.

Thanks for doing your part to keep people in Lakewood safe!

Glad to see my post quoted in the Yated this week. Popular online forum indeed. ;)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 12:34:58 AM
Glad to see my post quoted in the Yated this week. Popular online forum indeed. ;)
A clearer view
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 12:45:26 AM
A clearer view
Thanks but had to turn my computer on edge.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 12:48:48 AM
Thanks but had to turn my computer on edge.
Lol. Didn’t realize it would come up sideways
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 12:49:53 AM
Lol. Didn’t realize it would come up sideways
A twisted view....
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: good sam on April 05, 2020, 12:54:40 AM
A twisted view....
Krum
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on April 05, 2020, 01:01:26 AM
Rockland county executive wants a containment zone declared for two zip codes. Anyone wants to guess which demographic lives in those zip codes?

https://abc7ny.com/amp/rockland-county-containment-zone-coronavirus-new-york-news-update/6073555/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 01:05:31 AM
Rockland county executive wants a containment zone declared for two zip codes. Anyone wants to guess which demographic lives in those zip codes?

https://abc7ny.com/amp/rockland-county-containment-zone-coronavirus-new-york-news-update/6073555/
Austro-Hungarians?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on April 05, 2020, 01:06:56 AM
It's worth noting that similarly Orange County executive wanted a containment zone declared for the town of Palm Tree. Coincidentally, they are made up by a similar demographic.

http://westchester.news12.com/story/41922649/orange-county-executive-sends-covid19-sos-seeks-containment-zone
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 01:19:03 AM
It's worth noting that similarly Orange County executive wanted a containment zone declared for the town of Palm Tree. Coincidentally, they are made up by a similar demographic.

http://westchester.news12.com/story/41922649/orange-county-executive-sends-covid19-sos-seeks-containment-zone
Why does the concept of “containment zones” for Jews sound so familiar? Weird
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 01:21:29 AM
I just wrote the following email to the writer of the piece here:

https://www.liherald.com/stories/lawrence-yeshiva-builds-hospital-to-treat-covid-19-patients,123758

Hi, 


In your article about the Yeshivah in Lawrence that built an ad hoc hospital, you wrote, 


"and that a good portion of the Jewish community was slow to stop gathering in large groups as the state mandated social distancing guidelines went into effect."


I would expect such a grave claim to be backed up by some sort of evidence. 


In actual fact, all synagogues throughout Far Rockaway and the Five Towns were closed for the Shabbat of the 13th and 14th of March. (as reported on your own website:
https://www.liherald.com/stories/five-towns-orthodox-shuls-are-closed-because-of-coronavirus) 

NY schools were only closed the following week. 


Rabbinic leadership was unanimous, loud and clear in forbidding gatherings and encouraging social distancing far more stringently than NY state or NYC. 


Yes, the virus hit our communities hard. The holiday of Purim on the 10th, when families and friends gather together to celebrate in large parties and we visit each other's homes the whole day sharing gifts, likely had a lot to do with the spread of the virus. NY was then limiting gatherings to 500 people. In hindsight, that was a deadly mistake by state and federal officials. 


Yes, some individuals in our communities have flouted the rules, but so have members of every part of the population. You cannot paint with a wide brush and blame "a good portion of the Jewish community" for the sins of a few. There are hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in NY, if you saw a video (or even 5) with 25 or 30 people that is hardly representative. 


The same way it would be racist for me to say "a good portion of the African American community was slow to stop gathering in large groups as the state mandated social distancing guidelines went into effect." even if I could show you videos of public parks in NY filled with 50 or more African Americans playing basketball, handball and not practicing social distancing up until parks were closed last week. Those were individuals, and in no way representative of a community or group. 


Your mistake is not just one of semantics, it has real life affect on people like me who are visibly Jewish. People are blaming Jews for the spread of the Corona virus, and anti semitism has increased in numerous cities in part due to lazy journalism. 


I trust you will correct the record. 


With respect, 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 01:22:27 AM
It's worth noting that similarly Orange County executive wanted a containment zone declared for the town of Palm Tree. Coincidentally, they are made up by a similar demographic.

http://westchester.news12.com/story/41922649/orange-county-executive-sends-covid19-sos-seeks-containment-zone
Well the new YouTube star i mean Doctor said that ninety percent have it
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 01:25:58 AM
Well the new YouTube star i mean Doctor said that ninety percent have it
Yes, 90% had Corona, r"l, but the other half are ok, B"H
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 01:28:07 AM
Yes, 90% had Corona, r"l, but the other half are ok, B"H
And all 7of those that had it got his cocktail and are better.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 05, 2020, 01:29:12 AM
Yes, 90% had Corona, r"l, but the other half are ok, B"H
Out of the 90%, 120% avoided being hospitalized thanks to his efforts.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: good sam on April 05, 2020, 01:29:37 AM
I just wrote the following email to the writer of the piece here:

Hi,


In your article about the Yeshivah in Lawrence that built an ad hoc hospital, you wrote,


"and that a good portion of the Jewish community was slow to stop gathering in large groups as the state mandated social distancing guidelines went into effect."


I would expect such a grave claim to be backed up by some sort of evidence.


In actual fact, all synagogues throughout Far Rockaway and the Five Towns were closed for the Shabbat of the 13th and 14th of March. (as reported on your own website:
https://www.liherald.com/stories/five-towns-orthodox-shuls-are-closed-because-of-coronavirus)

NY schools were only closed the following week.


Rabbinic leadership was unanimous, loud and clear in forbidding gatherings and encouraging social distancing far more stringently than NY state or NYC.


Yes, the virus hit our communities hard. The holiday of Purim on the 10th, when families and friends gather together to celebrate in large parties and we visit each other's homes the whole day sharing gifts, likely had a lot to do with the spread of the virus. NY was then limiting gatherings to 500 people. In hindsight, that was a deadly mistake by state and federal officials.


Yes, some individuals in our communities have flouted the rules, but so have members of every part of the population. You cannot paint with a wide brush and blame "a good portion of the Jewish community" for the sins of a few. There are hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in NY, if you saw a video (or even 5) with 25 or 30 people that is hardly representative.


The same way it would be racist for me to say "a good portion of the African American community was slow to stop gathering in large groups as the state mandated social distancing guidelines went into effect." even if I could show you videos of public parks in NY filled with 50 or more African Americans playing basketball, handball and not practicing social distancing up until parks were closed last week. Those were individuals, and in no way representative of a community or group.


Your mistake is not just one of semantics, it has real life affect on people like me who are visibly Jewish. People are blaming Jews for the spread of the Corona virus, and anti semitism has increased in numerous cities in part due to lazy journalism.


I trust you will correct the record.


With respect,
Excellent.

(I will not even mention the affect/effect mistake)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on April 05, 2020, 01:30:16 AM
I just wrote the following email to the writer of the piece here:

Thank you!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 01:30:41 AM
Excellent.

(I will not even mention the affect/effect mistake)
How do you know which one to use? Simple, the one you use will be wrong.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 05, 2020, 01:31:39 AM
Glad to see my post quoted in the Yated this week. Popular online forum indeed. ;)
I guess they have scouts scourging DDF for smart perspectives...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 01:34:05 AM
I guess they have scouts scourging DDF for smart perspectives...
Why not say the name of the popular forum?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 01:34:38 AM
I just wrote the following email to the writer of the piece here:

Hi,


In your article about the Yeshivah in Lawrence that built an ad hoc hospital, you wrote,


"and that a good portion of the Jewish community was slow to stop gathering in large groups as the state mandated social distancing guidelines went into effect."


I would expect such a grave claim to be backed up by some sort of evidence.


In actual fact, all synagogues throughout Far Rockaway and the Five Towns were closed for the Shabbat of the 13th and 14th of March. (as reported on your own website:
https://www.liherald.com/stories/five-towns-orthodox-shuls-are-closed-because-of-coronavirus)

NY schools were only closed the following week.


Rabbinic leadership was unanimous, loud and clear in forbidding gatherings and encouraging social distancing far more stringently than NY state or NYC.


Yes, the virus hit our communities hard. The holiday of Purim on the 10th, when families and friends gather together to celebrate in large parties and we visit each other's homes the whole day sharing gifts, likely had a lot to do with the spread of the virus. NY was then limiting gatherings to 500 people. In hindsight, that was a deadly mistake by state and federal officials.


Yes, some individuals in our communities have flouted the rules, but so have members of every part of the population. You cannot paint with a wide brush and blame "a good portion of the Jewish community" for the sins of a few. There are hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in NY, if you saw a video (or even 5) with 25 or 30 people that is hardly representative.


The same way it would be racist for me to say "a good portion of the African American community was slow to stop gathering in large groups as the state mandated social distancing guidelines went into effect." even if I could show you videos of public parks in NY filled with 50 or more African Americans playing basketball, handball and not practicing social distancing up until parks were closed last week. Those were individuals, and in no way representative of a community or group.


Your mistake is not just one of semantics, it has real life affect on people like me who are visibly Jewish. People are blaming Jews for the spread of the Corona virus, and anti semitism has increased in numerous cities in part due to lazy journalism.


I trust you will correct the record.


With respect,
Fantastic letter. You had a lot of practice though.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 05, 2020, 01:44:00 AM
Why not say the name of the popular forum?
If the Yated mentioned Dans Deals anymore than it already does, people would start thinking that it is a paid advertisement.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2020, 01:46:48 AM
If the Yated mentioned Dans Deals anymore than it already does, people would start thinking that it is a paid advertisement.
Everyone knows DD doesn't do that :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 01:48:18 AM
If the Yated mentioned Dans Deals anymore than it already does, people would start thinking that it is a free advertisement.
FTFY
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 05, 2020, 03:36:22 AM
I have mixed feelings about this video. I'm not sure why.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 04:56:24 AM
I have mixed feelings about this video. I'm not sure why.
Indeed, why? Seems nice
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 05, 2020, 08:47:53 AM
Indeed, why? Seems nice
My first impression was that it makes it seem like we're trying too hard. The fact that you are putting out a professional video to say that we are compliant is in itself giving too much credence to the haters. The response has to come in from a more non-professional source, maybe like this: https://player.vimeo.com/video/402577985?utm_campaign=5370367&utm_source=affiliate&utm_channel=affiliate&cjevent=31631a9376e311ea83ff035d0a24060e

Also, the message is very muddled. Is it thanking health care workers? Is it a message about Lakewood's compliance? It doesn't give a steady message.

It could be that the video will have the desired effect, and overall, I think we could use every resource we can get our hands on to battle the hate. I just had mixed feelings about it.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 08:54:16 AM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 05, 2020, 09:05:54 AM
https://www.app.com/story/opinion/readers/2020/04/05/coronavirus-deaths-lack-common-sense/2947001001/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: chff on April 05, 2020, 10:17:00 AM
Rockland county executive wants a containment zone declared for two zip codes. Anyone wants to guess which demographic lives in those zip codes?

https://abc7ny.com/amp/rockland-county-containment-zone-coronavirus-new-york-news-update/6073555/
It's worth noting that similarly Orange County executive wanted a containment zone declared for the town of Palm Tree. Coincidentally, they are made up by a similar demographic.

http://westchester.news12.com/story/41922649/orange-county-executive-sends-covid19-sos-seeks-containment-zone
What does people don't know, that the "containment zone" in New Rochelle is basically what's now statewide

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 10:25:41 AM
Why can't you people stop gathering!

https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/hundreds-of-bikers-gathered-at-queens-funeral-home-despite-coronavirus-ban-police-union-says
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:31 AM
How do you know which one to use? Simple, the one you use will be wrong.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=29462.msg1964944#msg1964944
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yos9694 on April 05, 2020, 12:11:04 PM
A few thoughts
1) anti-semites have barely evolved in the nearly 700 years since the Black Plague
2) as an individual never think that your action of either kiddush hashem or chillul hashem is no big deal, it is literally attributed to every person in your community
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: JMHO on April 05, 2020, 10:08:05 PM
Please comment on this thread. Let's tell them the truth!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: JMHO on April 05, 2020, 10:09:07 PM
Or this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-nQ_R3F99l/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whacked1 on April 05, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
Please comment on this thread. Let's tell them the truth!
Whats that truth that you would like to be told?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 10:44:46 PM
Whats that truth that you would like to be told?
That the police breaking up several big weddings a week is a bunch of bunk.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 10:46:03 PM
That the police breaking up several big weddings a week is a bunch of bunk.
But I read about them on Twitter
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 11:07:58 PM
Instead of shouting at each other on all these threads, maybe we can actually help change things.

Does anyone here know who arranges the funerals that were broken up today? You don't have to post here, but speak up. Being combative is not going to work, but perhaps if enough people speak up respectfully?

Last week thousands of people in Crown Heights "attended" the levaya of Reb Yisroel Friedman without any gatherings on the street. The car drove through all the streets and people stood on their porches, by their windows, etc.

This is pikuach nefesh. We have to prevent the possibility of people gathering at levayos or there will be more of them, r'l. This is not about what people are saying about us.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zale on April 05, 2020, 11:45:01 PM
Instead of shouting at each other on all these threads, maybe we can actually help change things.

Does anyone here know who arranges the funerals that were broken up today? You don't have to post here, but speak up. Being combative is not going to work, but perhaps if enough people speak up respectfully?

Last week thousands of people in Crown Heights "attended" the levaya of Reb Yisroel Friedman without any gatherings on the street. The car drove through all the streets and people stood on their porches, by their windows, etc.

This is pikuach nefesh. We have to prevent the possibility of people gathering at levayos or there will be more of them, r'l. This is not about what people are saying about us.

How do you speak up respectfully when people are told over and over NOT to congregate inside or out and they do it anyway, despite knowing that members of their own community are sick and dying, and that the whole world is watching them?


Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 11:49:48 PM
How do you speak up respectfully when people are told over and over NOT to congregate inside or out and they do it anyway, despite knowing that members of their own community are sick and dying, and that the whole world is watching them?
It's only the organizers that need to be convinced
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 05, 2020, 11:51:14 PM
.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: mgarfin on April 06, 2020, 12:17:56 AM
.

Wrong thread
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 06, 2020, 12:18:17 AM
Instead of shouting at each other on all these threads, maybe we can actually help change things.

Does anyone here know who arranges the funerals that were broken up today? You don't have to post here, but speak up. Being combative is not going to work, but perhaps if enough people speak up respectfully?

Last week thousands of people in Crown Heights "attended" the levaya of Reb Yisroel Friedman without any gatherings on the street. The car drove through all the streets and people stood on their porches, by their windows, etc.

This is pikuach nefesh. We have to prevent the possibility of people gathering at levayos or there will be more of them, r'l. This is not about what people are saying about us.
I don't think these people are going to listen to what you have to say no matter how respectfully it is stated. Maybe if people from their own community speak up that would help. That being said it is still wrong to shout and scream about them as all that accomplishes is שנאת חנם.

BTW both of these Rebbes were niftar from corona (at least according to ywn).
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 12:21:14 AM
Instead of shouting at each other on all these threads, maybe we can actually help change things.

Does anyone here know who arranges the funerals that were broken up today? You don't have to post here, but speak up. Being combative is not going to work, but perhaps if enough people speak up respectfully?

Last week thousands of people in Crown Heights "attended" the levaya of Reb Yisroel Friedman without any gatherings on the street. The car drove through all the streets and people stood on their porches, by their windows, etc.

This is pikuach nefesh. We have to prevent the possibility of people gathering at levayos or there will be more of them, r'l. This is not about what people are saying about us.

I hate that it's happening, but to give it some perspective: Yud Aleph Nissan and people are going to the Ohel. Can you imagine Gimmel Tammuz Nun Daled during a time like this? There'd be no talking to anybody. Let it take me with my Rebbe.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 12:21:37 AM
Wrong thread
Does anyone read the title of the thread before they post?  :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 12:26:38 AM
I don't think these people are going to listen to what you have to say no matter how respectfully it is stated. Maybe if people from their own community speak up that would help. That being said it is still wrong to shout and scream about them as all that accomplishes is שנאת חנם.

BTW both of these Rebbes were niftar from corona (at least according to ywn).
My post was directed at people within the community. My point is if you have a contact, speak up. You never know what impact you can have
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 12:27:31 AM
I hate that it's happening, but to give it some perspective: Yud Aleph Nissan and people are going to the Ohel. Can you imagine Gimmel Tammuz Nun Daled during a time like this? There'd be no talking to anybody. Let it take me with my Rebbe.
It's a truly tragic situation with no easy answers.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 06, 2020, 12:33:44 AM
I hate that it's happening, but to give it some perspective: Yud Aleph Nissan and people are going to the Ohel. Can you imagine Gimmel Tammuz Nun Daled during a time like this? There'd be no talking to anybody. Let it take me with my Rebbe.
I just thought today the same, while driving through a crowded levaya. God forbid this would happen with one of the grand rebbis, when people are all for giving their rebbis the last respect at all costs, you wouldn't have to whom to talk.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shwarmabob on April 06, 2020, 12:30:12 PM
insane story, insane behavior reported by a generally insane newspaper:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/nyc-firefighter-gets-coronavirus-after-teen-sneezes-on-him/
I wonder if the firefighter dies these guys can be charged with murder
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on April 06, 2020, 12:35:06 PM
insane story, insane behavior reported by a generally insane newspaper:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/nyc-firefighter-gets-coronavirus-after-teen-sneezes-on-him/
I wonder if the firefighter dies these guys can be charged with murder
If this story is true, it’s an absolute travesty. But there is no way to prove, that the fire fighter contracted it, from this kid.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 12:36:02 PM
They just brought up the Jewish gatherings in Cuomo's live press conference.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 06, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
They just brought up the Jewish gatherings in Cuomo's live press conference.
Any details?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Any details?
Reporter asked about Jewish weddings/funerals that are violation of the rules. He mentioned a few areas. BP was one of them. Coumo said he don't care what religion or color they are. It needs to stop. Fines increased 500 to 1000. FOX broke away from the Q&A.  >:(
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 01:06:01 PM
insane story, insane behavior reported by a generally insane newspaper:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/nyc-firefighter-gets-coronavirus-after-teen-sneezes-on-him/
I wonder if the firefighter dies these guys can be charged with murder
That is horrible.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 01:09:39 PM
But there is no way to prove, that the fire fighter contracted it, from this kid.
Does that matter if the story is true.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 01:11:21 PM
Does that matter if the story is true.

No. They should be arrested and tried with attempted murder.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on April 06, 2020, 01:32:52 PM
Does that matter if the story is true.
To charge him with murder? Absolutely it matters.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on April 06, 2020, 01:35:08 PM
To charge him with murder? Absolutely it matters.
Does that matter if the story is true.
Just like most msm, you conveniently, left out the first line of my post. 😉
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 01:44:43 PM
Just like most msm, you conveniently, left out the first line of my post. 😉

When there's a gang shooting that leaves a bystander dead, I believe any of the shooters can be charged with murder, regardless of whether they fired the actual bullet. The same should apply here.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on April 06, 2020, 01:50:35 PM
When there's a gang shooting that leaves a bystander dead, I believe any of the shooters can be charged with murder, regardless of whether they fired the actual bullet. The same should apply here.
Huh? Do we know if the kid had the virus? I must’ve missed that part of the story. Otherwise, while if true, it’s a gross and horrible thing, how the heck are you charging him with anything? Emotions don’t play into this. You’re letting your emotions get in the way. We both agree it’s terrible, but there is nothing that can be done.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
No. They should be arrested and tried with attempted murder.
I don't think it would be able to be attempted murder but some types of terrorism chages can stick.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 01:59:51 PM
Just like most msm, you conveniently, left out the first line of my post. 😉
I agreed with your first part so need to muddy the waters.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 06, 2020, 02:02:09 PM
Huh? Do we know if the kid had the virus? I must’ve missed that part of the story. Otherwise, while if true, it’s a gross and horrible thing, how the heck are you charging him with anything? Emotions don’t play into this. You’re letting your emotions get in the way. We both agree it’s terrible, but there is nothing that can be done.
Lets go back a step. do we know if there is any truth to the story? Did anyone ask the teens for their version of what happened? Before we decide what to charge them with lets not jump to conclusions.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 06, 2020, 02:08:31 PM
The NY Post is a no-source for such stories and yet people are ready to execute capital punishment already.

"Koslowski could not be reached for comment. The NYPD did not return a request for information. Sattar did not respond to messages.

The FDNY dismissed the letter as “not official.” 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on April 06, 2020, 02:16:20 PM
Lets go back a step. do we know if there is any truth to the story? Did anyone ask the teens for their version of what happened? Before we decide what to charge them with lets not jump to conclusions.
Go back a page, to where this story was posted, read the responses, and then let me know if you still have your questions? I clearly stated IF THE STORY IS TRUE.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on April 06, 2020, 02:17:26 PM
insane story, insane behavior reported by a generally insane newspaper:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/nyc-firefighter-gets-coronavirus-after-teen-sneezes-on-him/
I wonder if the firefighter dies these guys can be charged with murder

Why in the world do they have that section about the firefighter's father in there?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 06, 2020, 02:20:15 PM
Why in the world do they have that section about the firefighter's father in there?
Because it's the Post?

But maybe that part tells us how much credibility we can give for his sons allegations?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 06, 2020, 02:22:34 PM
The NY Post is a no-source for such stories and yet people are ready to execute capital punishment already.

"Koslowski could not be reached for comment. The NYPD did not return a request for information. Sattar did not respond to messages.

The FDNY dismissed the letter as “not official.”
In other words, it's as good as being completely made up/fake.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 02:24:35 PM
Huh? Do we know if the kid had the virus? I must’ve missed that part of the story. Otherwise, while if true, it’s a gross and horrible thing, how the heck are you charging him with anything? Emotions don’t play into this. You’re letting your emotions get in the way. We both agree it’s terrible, but there is nothing that can be done.

The question I attempted to answer was: if the story is true, that these kids sneezed on him intentionally, does it matter if they can't prove that the firefighter's infection came specifically from these kids? I made the mistake of assuming that checking whether the kids had the virus or not was a given, and focused only on the lack of ability to prove a 100% direct link from their infection to his. My answer was purely in the hypothetical, since this story is far from verified. Hypothetically speaking, I don't think there's nothing that can be done.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 06, 2020, 05:32:21 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/lakewood-school-district-attorney-michael-inzelbuch-calls-for-investigation-after-jewish-bus-driver-is-followed-in-his-private-vehicle-video.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: grodnoking on April 06, 2020, 06:07:47 PM
Why in the world do they have that section about the firefighter's father in there?
Whatever manure they can dig up gets printed in the New York Compost.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cholent on April 06, 2020, 07:10:24 PM
Per diem employee sent this to some non Jewish members of my department
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 06, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Per diem employee sent this to some non Jewish members of my department
If u get harassed when returning to work then file a law suit.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 07:56:55 PM
If u get harassed when returning to work then file a law suit.
Complain already now. That he sent it is harassment.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 06, 2020, 07:59:20 PM
Per diem employee sent this to some non Jewish members of my department
I don't think that it has to be said, but the photo of Lakewood is not from these weeks. Just making sure that it's clear.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 07:59:57 PM
I don't think that it has to be said, but the photo of Lakewood is not from these weeks. Just making sure that it's clear.
I doubt that it is from Lakewood at all.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whYME on April 06, 2020, 08:01:06 PM
I don't think that it has to be said, but the photo of Lakewood is not from these weeks. Just making sure that it's clear.
Well for that matter,  the top photo is not from the US either
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cholent on April 06, 2020, 08:12:20 PM
Complain already now. That he sent it is harassment.
I'm the manager. And he's not getting any more work from us.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 08:22:28 PM
I'm the manager. And he's not getting any more work from us.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3ryJQCTf/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 08:30:42 PM
I'm the manager. And he's not getting any more work from us.
Parting shot
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: mochjas on April 06, 2020, 08:51:28 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 06, 2020, 09:14:47 PM
Whatever manure they can dig up gets printed in the New York Compost.
Umm. Let’s think about this.

1) The alleged victim’s father is serving 24 years for conspiracy to murder Jews.

2) The son, without witnesses, alleges in an unverified letter that Jews harassed him and a Jew deliberately sneezed on him, a pretty wild and serious accusation.

3) The FDNY dismisses the letter.

Why in the world would anyone give more than a minute’s thought to this insane story? I’m not saying it can’t be true, just I have absolutely no reason to believe it’s true. Of course his father’s proven hatred and conviction is relevant.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: grodnoking on April 06, 2020, 09:23:43 PM


Umm. Let’s think about this.

1) The alleged victim’s father is serving 24 years for conspiracy to murder Jews.

2) The son, without witnesses, alleges in an unverified letter that Jews harassed him and a Jew deliberately sneezed on him, a pretty wild and serious accusation.

3) The FDNY dismisses the letter.

Why in the world would anyone give more than a minute’s thought to this insane story? I’m not saying it can’t be true, just I have absolutely no reason to believe it’s true. Of course his father’s proven hatred and conviction is relevant.

My point exactly. They'll just shove a huge pile of dung into an "article" and hope people read past enough ads to get them money.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 06, 2020, 10:05:06 PM

My point exactly. They'll just shove a huge pile of dung into an "article" and hope people read past enough ads to get them money.
I wasn’t specifically replying to you I was responding to the people who were jumping to conclusions, I quoted you because yours was just the last post on the topic. :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 06, 2020, 11:09:12 PM
.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: grodnoking on April 06, 2020, 11:16:48 PM
.
Why is this antisemitic?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on April 06, 2020, 11:17:45 PM
A part-time Tuxedo cop posted on Facebook "Drop a daisy cutter right in KJ!"

https://midhudsonnews.com/2020/04/06/part-time-tuxedo-cop-out-for-drop-a-daisy-cutter-right-on-kj-social-media-comment/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 07, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
Why is this antisemitic?
I doubt that anti-Semitism was the reason for the closure, but it was probably in play with whoever called in the complaint.

BTW, according to my understanding, it should be allowed to be open.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: grodnoking on April 07, 2020, 12:13:01 AM
I doubt that anti-Semitism was the reason for the closure, but it was probably in play with whoever called in the complaint.

BTW, according to my understanding, it should be allowed to be open.
Home improvement store can be open, but can home goods stores? It's a fine line, but they I think identity as a home goods store.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 07, 2020, 12:16:44 AM
Home improvement store can be open, but can home goods stores? It's a fine line, but they I think identity as a home goods store.

What are you talking about? Home goods isn't a comparison!
This is a hardware store-mini buzz-home improvement all in one.
The AG isnt anti Semitic but I do believe he is relying on people who are
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 07, 2020, 12:21:52 AM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:37:42 AM
This is a description from Yelp for the store. Is it accurate?
This is a lovely, old-style home store, not unlike a Woolworth's or PR Grand. They have a wide array of kitchen appliances, china sets, and other hardware and brick a brack. I strongly recommend it.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 07, 2020, 12:41:55 AM
This is a description from Yelp for the store. Is it accurate?
This is a lovely, old-style home store, not unlike a Woolworth's or PR Grand. They have a wide array of kitchen appliances, china sets, and other hardware and brick a brack. I strongly recommend it.

Its a mix of cutlery, blenders, peelers, small electronics for the kitchen, glass cups, seasonal essentials, random home improvement stuff. A big mix of all essentials needed for the home etc
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 07, 2020, 12:47:19 AM
when you need something for the kitchen that's not food center is the address
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yaakov35 on April 07, 2020, 12:47:38 AM
A part-time Tuxedo cop posted on Facebook "Drop a daisy cutter right in KJ!"

https://midhudsonnews.com/2020/04/06/part-time-tuxedo-cop-out-for-drop-a-daisy-cutter-right-on-kj-social-media-comment/
He's just an annoyed cop. The real problem is the one place that the world can see every time 4 frum people stand together, or bunch of chasidim do something dumb. Yeshiva world news.....
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:47:48 AM
Its a mix of cutlery, blenders, peelers, small electronics for the kitchen, glass cups, seasonal essentials, random home improvement stuff. A big mix of all essentials needed for the home etc
I would say it is a home store and not essential then.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 07, 2020, 12:49:38 AM
I would say it is a home store and not essential then.
that's why they have the bar open
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 07, 2020, 08:32:34 AM
They are reopening today
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 07, 2020, 08:34:58 AM
I would say it is a home store and not essential then.

I gave you 4 items from thousands, they are a mix of everything. 100% essential. I cant explain the store, if you go in you’ll understand.

The same way for example Dollar Tree can be a grocery, then a hardware store, then a dif store because technically they have everything, think that type of idea but not food
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2020, 10:40:32 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/center-of-town-we-were-shut-down-by-the-nj-attorney-general-ocpo.htmlSee the
announcement below.
UPDATE 8:10 AM: The store will be reopened today.
This comes after an outcry by local community leaders, who proved to authorities
this was considered an essential store, permitted under the executive order.
The store will be open from 10-6:30 PM.
All are requested to continue to practice social distancing, both inside and outside
the store.
Center of Town: We were shut down by the NJ Attorney General, OCPO... https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/center-of-town-we-w...
1
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: grodnoking on April 07, 2020, 11:21:51 AM


I gave you 4 items from thousands, they are a mix of everything. 100% essential. I cant explain the store, if you go in you’ll understand.

The same way for example Dollar Tree can be a grocery, then a hardware store, then a dif store because technically they have everything, think that type of idea but not food

I wouldn't call it antisemitism. From an outsider's view it looks like a non essential store. If the person would see how much it is needed for the community they would change their mind, as we see happened.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 07, 2020, 11:29:24 AM

I wouldn't call it antisemitism. From an outsider's view it looks like a non essential store. If the person would see how much it is needed for the community they would change their mind, as we see happened.
Yup, the outsider reporting this non-essential store after getting his bike repaired in a bike shop (allowed) after a visit to his liquor store (allowed).
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2020, 11:50:48 AM
Yup, the outsider reporting this non-essential store after getting his bike repaired in a bike shop (allowed) after a visit to his liquor store (allowed).
that's why they have the bar open
https://www.wsj.com/articles/prohibition-makes-a-comeback-11586214623


Prohibition Makes a Comeback
Pennsylvania shuts down liquor stores. Panic buying ensues.

The roaring 1920s and the so far deplorable 2020s already have one misguided policy in common. As state and local officials work to limit the spread of the coronavirus, some have ordered the closure of liquor stores. It’s going as well as history would suggest.

Pennsylvania’s Liquor Control Board announced March 16 that liquor stores would close the next day. The state hoped to keep residents at home, but instead Pennsylvanians flocked to buy booze while they still could. Lines stretched around the block, and sales spiked to $29.9 million in a single day—“the most spent on booze in Pennsylvania in one day, according to complete sales records dating back 12 years,” the Philadelphia Inquirer reported last week.

Denver saw a similar rush on March 23 when Mayor Michael Hancock announced that liquor stores would not be considered essential businesses. “It’s created a safety issue in the short term,” Argonaut Wine & Liquor co-owner Josh Robinson told the Denver Post. “The mayor said not to panic buy, but that is exactly what he encouraged people to do by shutting us down.” Mr. Hancock decided within hours to reverse course and let the liquor stores stay open.

But in Pennsylvania the closures continue. Many residents are now driving to neighboring states to buy alcohol, potentially bringing the virus with them. The Monongalia County Health Department has banned liquor sales to anyone without a West Virginia ID, and Delaware police are pulling over out-of-state drivers and instructing them to go home.

Pennsylvania’s Liquor Control Board resumed limited online sales on April 1. But it restricts orders to six bottles per transaction and can’t guarantee that all who want to buy alcohol can. The number of orders immediately overwhelmed the site, and the state now rations access to the online store, too. Black markets thrive when the government refuses to let supply match demand, so expect to see rum runners make a comeback.

New York City has been wiser and allowed restaurants to offer alcohol for take-out and delivery. That satiates the thirsty while providing much-needed revenue for struggling businesses. Kentucky lawmakers have passed legislation allowing alcohol producers to ship directly to consumers. Such policies acknowledge that, even in a pandemic, prohibition creates more problems than it solves.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 09:06:03 PM
A part-time Tuxedo cop posted on Facebook "Drop a daisy cutter right in KJ!"

https://midhudsonnews.com/2020/04/06/part-time-tuxedo-cop-out-for-drop-a-daisy-cutter-right-on-kj-social-media-comment/

https://www.recordonline.com/news/20200407/part-time-tuxedo-cop-leaves-force-after-facebook-joke-about-bombing-kiryas-joel

What are they basing their claim that this was "a joke"? And what are the chances that they would include that claim in the headline if it was any other minority group?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 08, 2020, 07:54:07 AM
News12 reporter Kurt Siegelin has a follow up on the school bus story. He bashes the AG and more. Great read!

https://www.facebook.com/kurtnews12/posts/2967043953318007?__tn__=K-R

Quote
LAKEWOOD UPDATE...

One investigation ends. And there likely won't be another one. Jewish residents in Lakewood reacted cynically today to the first bit of news. I can only imagine how resigned they'll be when the second part becomes evident. Resigned that there won't be any justice. Resigned that the divide and mistrust will persist. The Ocean County prosecutor couldn't heal that divide and, if they tried, it's lost on those who live here. Now, the state Attorney General seems to be taking a pass.

As predicted here several days ago, the county prosecutor investigation into whether schools were secretly still open in Lakewood proved fruitless. That investigation was nothing if not thorough. The prosecutor concluded (statement in a lower post) there were 85 buses out on the streets. My original column pointed out that every one of those buses was delivering meals. Yes, there were kids on board. In most every case, those were the children of the bus drivers. They were helping pass out the meals. There never were schools open in Lakewood. The prosecutor's office did what it had to do to gather evidence of that. Besides boarding countless buses, they had access to hours of on-board bus camera footage which bore it out. They had Toms River police scour neighborhoods for Ring doorbell footage. Nothing. They even went so far as to tail bus drivers in unmarked cars when they left their homes just to see where they were going. All to make sure. You may call these tactics aggressive. I'll be polite and call it thorough.

The prosecutor's office conclusion: "Subsequent investigation revealed that approximately 85 different buses from 4 bus companies - Jay's Bus Service, Masoras Avos Bus Service, Semon Tov Bus Service and Harnett Bus Service - were being utilized to deliver food to various residences in Lakewood, Toms River, Brick and Jackson, where residents were attempting to follow the Governor's stay at home orders."

In short, it was only ever meals. No schools. The reaction from the Lakewood schools attorney. Michael Inzelbuch?

"We appreciate the Prosecutor's statement. We will CONTINUE to insist that all buses delivering food CONTINUE to have appropriate signage and to avoid any further misunderstandings, at best, CONTINUE not have any children helping deliver food. HOWEVER - we are not withdrawing, at this time, the request for an independent review. Surely, no one should live in fear for doing their job as required by law in accordance with the law."

And he makes a good point. A driver I spoke with late last week wants to quit. He feels he's being harassed. Not just by the cops but by people in Toms River who still don't believe he's carrying meals. He's got people videotaping him at every corner. He's got strange cars following him. He feels threatened. He even took the step of delivering meals in his personal car because the bus had become such a visible target. So, yeah, re-read Inzelbuch's last line.

Rabbi David Rosenthal didn't mince words on facebook today, "The Ocean County Prosecutor's Office should be protecting the citizens of NJ, not serving as agents of bigots to harass the law abiding citizens of Ocean County. New Jersey OAG we demand an investigation!"

Rosenthal, Inzelbuch and thousands in Lakewood want the Attorney General to get involved. That request is just an ask. It doesn't have to be honored and the word I get from Trenton is that it will not be. The spokesman for Gurbir Grewal sent me this when I asked if the AG was going to follow up. "This was investigated by the Ocean County Prosecutor's Office. We do not have any further comment." I thought that vague. So I followed up and asked if they're just referring to the OC prosecutor's investigation and that's it? Alas, there was no response. So, let's just guess!

This type of communication comes as no surprise, frankly, because as has been the case with law enforcement since this began, you don't get much information and the information you do get can be interpreted different ways. Remember, it was the curiously-worded police email to News 12 New Jersey Jim Murdoch that got this whole thing started 8 nights ago. And now it appears to end prematurely.

One investigation is over, but I do maintain a second one should be opened -- into the probable cause of the first investigation. We've known police were sent an edited video. It wasn't edited for convenience. It was edited with intention. It was meant to create a fictional narrative so as to indict the Jewish community. Did the prosecutor's office finally see that for what it was? So why not investigate that? You want to root out hate in the community and establish trust between residents? Maybe that video is a good place to start. As for the phone complaints to the prosecutor's office, were they people just unaware of the meal mission? Or...not? Who's not suspicious of everything that led us to this point?!?

When I pressed Toms River police on the phone last week, I asked them what they were doing? Keep in mind, I'd seen all the relevant video clips at that point. I'd talked to people who knew. I put it out there point blank on the phone, "You guys have nothing." Today we saw that to be true. The process ran its course. There were no apologies today for the investigation, its shaky origins or the tactics used which only heightened the distrust.

Suspicion and distrust at such a time. The Governor daily speaks of the "New Jersey family." The hashtag "In this Together" is making the rounds. There's a pandemic and we can't seem to get neighbors in the same town to trust each other. "In this Together", huh? I guess there's a reason you have to sell it. In some places, it's sadly just not true.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 12, 2020, 12:35:23 PM
I think it's time for another email, @Yehuda57
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 12:48:03 PM
I think it's time for another email, @Yehuda57
Tell me what is wrong with that? Shuls that are ostensibly closed are open for business with shades drawn. Outdoor minyanim with no social distancing and people walking back and forth all of davening. Stores crowded to the gills. I dont blame them for saying that there is a problem in our community. Its not outliers. Thats an outright lie. Its a large percentage. Just drive the streets of Boro Park any morning and ask anyone walking with their tallis and tefillin where they are going. If we were so righteous and it was only outliers you wouldnt see that many. Then again the person behind this account has his own version of everything.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on April 12, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Tell me what is wrong with that? Shuls that are ostensibly closed are open for business with shades drawn. Outdoor minyanim with no social distancing and people walking back and forth all davening. Stores crowded t the gills. I dont blame them for saying that there is a problem in our community. Its not outliers. That an outright lie. Its a large percentage. Just drive the streets of Boro Park any morning and ask anyone walking with their tallis and tefillin where they are going. If we were so righteous and it was only outliers you wouldnt see that many.
Never been happier to live OOT
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 12:52:24 PM
Never been happier to live OOT
Eliyahu Hanavi must have lived OOT too. These are absolute Neveai HaBaal davening at the alter of the God Minyan
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: simple26 on April 12, 2020, 12:54:29 PM
Tell me what is wrong with that? Shuls that are ostensibly closed are open for business with shades drawn. Outdoor minyanim with no social distancing and people walking back and forth all of davening. Stores crowded to the gills. I dont blame them for saying that there is a problem in our community. Its not outliers. Thats an outright lie. Its a large percentage. Just drive the streets of Boro Park any morning and ask anyone walking with their tallis and tefillin where they are going. If we were so righteous and it was only outliers you wouldnt see that many. Then again the person behind this account has his own version of everything.
Does that suffice for largely? Thousands of people are at home you see tens on streets still don’t think to much of a bigger percentage by our community
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 12:54:49 PM
Never been happier to live OOT
BP is OOT at this point Lakewood does not fit that description at all.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 12:59:00 PM
BP is OOT at this point Lakewood does not fit that description at all.
Seems so. There are at least 3 outdoor minyanim on my block and thats only in front of the houses. There are more behind the houses.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 12, 2020, 01:10:42 PM
Nothing wrong with minyanim outside. Many rabonim say so.

We as jews should be strong with our principles and shall continue prayers together when possible and do so safely.

If one can go to the grocery and keep social distancing why can't one go to shul and do it, and outside?

It's a shame that we care what the NY Post has to say. We shall continue to daven with minyan with  proper distancing measures.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 01:14:06 PM
Nothing wrong with minyanim outside. Many rabonim say so.

We as jews should be strong with our principles and shall continue prayers together when possible and do so safely.

If one can go to the grocery and keep social distancing why can't one go to shul and do it, and outside?

It's a shame that we care what the NY Post has to say. We shall continue to daven with minyan with  proper distancing measures.
I have seen a number of outdoor before the rabbonim came out strongly against them and one after. Not a single one really kept to any guidelines.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 01:16:06 PM
Nothing wrong with minyanim outside. Many rabonim say so.

We as jews should be strong with our principles and shall continue prayers together when possible and do so safely.

If one can go to the grocery and keep social distancing why can't one go to shul and do it, and outside?

It's a shame that we care what the NY Post has to say. We shall continue to daven with minyan with  proper distancing measures.
The poskim set so many gedarim that we shouldnt be nichshal on aveiros. Here you are being machmir on pikuach nefesh, a doraisa by not davening with a minyan a d'rabbanan. You can say you are social distancing at minyanim all you want. I see otherwise. I see people that are oiver lifnei eveir every time they make a minyan because people cant hold themselves back from "shpatziring" during davening. Your relying on people not being creatures of habit. 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 01:17:16 PM
I have seen a number of outdoor before the rabbonim came out strongly against them and one after. Not a single one really kept to any guidelines.
the problem here in BP is that no rav actually came out with any ban on outdoor minyanim. Every one of my neighbors says "Who said?"
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 01:19:13 PM
the problem here in BP is that no rav actually came out with any ban on outdoor minyanim. Every one of my neighbors says "Who said?"
Is there any who would be considered enough of an authority?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 12, 2020, 01:20:16 PM
I have seen a number of outdoor before the rabbonim came out strongly against them and one after. Not a single one really kept to any guidelines.
If you can't keep guidelines then dont attend.

I know of a few where everyone stays on their own porch and no one goes down, what's the problem with that?

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
Is there any who would be considered enough of an authority?
Probably not. But a conglomerate of Rabbanim could have. Satmar Monroe supposedly closed all his shuls but I doubt that is true. Satmar Williamsburg is officially open for tefillos only. Emunas Yisrael is officially open. Stolin is locked shut. As usual theyre all worried about their image. The other one was open why couldnt I have been is whats going on.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 01:25:25 PM
If you can't keep guidelines then dont attend.

I know of a few where everyone stays on their own porch and no one goes down, what's the problem with that?
The ones that cant keep guidelines are the frummest of all.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
If you can't keep guidelines then dont attend.

I know of a few where everyone stays on their own porch and no one goes down, what's the problem with that?
A number of Lakewood rabbonim told me very specifically not to make one even that way because it will lead to problems. I stopped joining one even though I am a chiyuv based on this. Others continued it. When I looked out my window over Yom tov, lo and behold there are a bunch of people who found out about it and were hanging around without following guidelines. The rabbonim know what they are talking about To go against the rabbonim would not be a zchus for my father.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on April 12, 2020, 01:28:02 PM
the problem here in BP is that no rav actually came out with any ban on outdoor minyanim. Every one of my neighbors says "Who said?"
Halvay that Rabbonim have the power. Ppl are not relying on them and they feel smarter than the Rabbonim. Here in CH Rabbonim wrote it clearly that no Minyan is allowed but ppl can't help themselves.
In a certain way, if they anyway will not listen, better to not tell them (ע"ד מוטב שיהיו שוגגין ואל יהיו מזידין).
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 01:30:20 PM
The ones that cant keep guidelines are the frummest of all.


Those making minyanim are not being frum. They are being porek ol

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 12, 2020, 01:35:42 PM
the problem here in BP is that no rav actually came out with any ban on outdoor minyanim. Every one of my neighbors says "Who said?"
This is the part I don’t get (and the main difference in Lakewood is that the Rabbanim and doctors came out unified and strongly against making minyanim and everyone listens to a few main poskim/Roshei Yeshiva)- why do we need Rabbanim to tell people to use their brains? Seriously, how did this become a Jewish thing? It’s common sense, like looking both ways before crossing the street and going to a doctor if you’re not well.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 12, 2020, 01:39:49 PM
Halvay that Rabbonim have the power. Ppl are not relying on them and they feel smarter than the Rabbonim. Here in CH Rabbonim wrote it clearly that no Minyan is allowed but ppl can't help themselves.
In a certain way, if they anyway will not listen, better to not tell them (ע"ד מוטב שיהיו שוגגין ואל יהיו מזידין).
If you live in CH then listen to ur Rav there.

Every one should listen to thier Rav.

JUST FYI mine said shul should be closed.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 12, 2020, 01:44:43 PM
This is the part I don’t get (and the main difference in Lakewood is that the Rabbanim and doctors came out unified and strongly against making minyanim and everyone listens to a few main poskim/Roshei Yeshiva)- why do we need Rabbanim to tell people to use their brains? Seriously, how did this become a Jewish thing? It’s common sense, like looking both ways before crossing the street and going to a doctor if you’re not well.
-1
Those times in LKWD are over.

I think we all understand having a title = nothing, but that your father might of been qualified for a job.

In LKWD I personally know of many respectfull rabonim that agree a minyan can be made outside only if proper distancing can be adhered to. Those rabonim understand politics and I believe you do as well. They understand they can say something in public against the "establishment" but will cause alot of headaches and fights, so they just issue thier guidance to thier own misspalil when they ask.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 12, 2020, 01:49:19 PM
This is the part I don’t get (and the main difference in Lakewood is that the Rabbanim and doctors came out unified and strongly against making minyanim and everyone listens to a few main poskim/Roshei Yeshiva)- why do we need Rabbanim to tell people to use their brains? Seriously, how did this become a Jewish thing? It’s common sense, like looking both ways before crossing the street and going to a doctor if you’re not well.
We sing about the seichel hane'elam on shabbos. Thats the loss of common sense.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 12, 2020, 02:00:48 PM
-1
Those times in LKWD are over.

I think we all understand having a title = nothing, but that your father might of been qualified for a job.

In LKWD I personally know of many respectfull rabonim that agree a minyan can be made outside only if proper distancing can be adhered to. Those rabonim understand politics and I believe you do as well. They understand they can say something in public against the "establishment" but will cause alot of headaches and fights, so they just issue thier guidance to thier own misspalil when they ask.
R’ Forscheimer, Dr. Shanik, and the BMG poskim have a LOT of sway in Lakewood. Dr. Shanik woke up a little late IMHO and that probably costed a few lives unfortunately but Lakewood on the whole is doing a lot better than BP etc.

Some Rabbanim are allowing porch minyanim etc. and I’m not going to say anything against them but I have seen flagrant examples of people relying on those heterim and being very very dangerous, so all I’ll say back is that exactly what you said about having titles applies to some of those Rabbanim too.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on April 12, 2020, 03:33:06 PM
How many of the people making/attending minyanim actually asked a Rov who is qualified to answer such shaylos? The people I spoke to all quoted "some rabbonim"

And if the Rov doesn't have enough confidence in his psak being דבר ה' to stand up to the "abuse" by making his psak publicly shouldn't be paskening about this in private.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 12, 2020, 03:36:30 PM
How many of the people making/attending minyanim actually asked a Rov who is qualified to answer such shaylos? The people I spoke to all quoted "some rabbonim"
I know of 3 very qualified Rabbanim in Lakewood who allowed porch Minyanim over Pesach. PM me if you want to see an email from one of them from right before Yom Tov
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: zh cohen on April 12, 2020, 03:38:59 PM
I know of 3 very qualified Rabbanim in Lakewood who allowed porch Minyanim over Pesach. PM me if you want to see an email from one of them from right before Yom Tov

My question was how many of the people at the minyan are relying on a psak given to them (or a psak made publicly for everyone) and how many are relying on something someone told someone in the name of someone else.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 04:22:48 PM
I know of 3 very qualified Rabbanim in Lakewood who allowed porch Minyanim over Pesach. PM me if you want to see an email from one of them from right before Yom Tov
I know of one where if he would have understood what the minyan looked like he would never have said what he did.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 12, 2020, 05:30:09 PM
I know of one where if he would have understood what the minyan looked like he would never have said what he did.
I forwarded you the email. I know one Rav who was told on Yom Tov what the minyan looked like and said they should stop immediately.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 06:14:52 PM
I forwarded you the email. I know one Rav who was told on Yom Tov what the minyan looked like and said they should stop immediately.
Not shocked.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 12, 2020, 11:29:19 PM


R’ Forscheimer, Dr. Shanik, and the BMG poskim have a LOT of sway in Lakewood. Dr. Shanik woke up a little late IMHO and that probably costed a few lives unfortunately but Lakewood on the whole is doing a lot better than BP etc.

Some Rabbanim are allowing porch minyanim etc. and I’m not going to say anything against them but I have seen flagrant examples of people relying on those heterim and being very very dangerous, so all I’ll say back is that exactly what you said about having titles applies to some of those Rabbanim too.

While I agree they have alot of swaying power in lkwd it's only on 50% or so.

The other 50% listen to thier local rabbi and have nothing with the above mentioned. It hurts for some to hear it as this was not the case 10 years ago.

Its possible Lakewood is doing better in this regard due to the 50%.

Many Rabonim wont issue there pisakim publicly due to the fact that they don't serve the public, only their own constituents. Hence the reasoning you'd need to contact them privately.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Shkop on April 12, 2020, 11:37:22 PM
We sing about the seichel hane'elam on shabbos. Thats the loss of common sense.
I think the seichel hane'elam meekal ra'ayon refers to Hashem
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 13, 2020, 12:18:44 AM

Some Rabbanim are allowing porch minyanim etc. and I’m not going to say anything against them but I have seen flagrant examples of people relying on those heterim and being very very dangerous, so all I’ll say back is that exactly what you said about having titles applies to some of those Rabbanim too.
Some people will rely on a heter for a porch minyan and be irresponsible about it, some people go to the grocery store and act irresponsibly (there were reports of crowded stores before y"t), some people go visiting and don't heed social distancing. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

That being said this whole discussion is way off topic.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: SamCan on April 13, 2020, 12:32:00 AM
Went to Niagara Falls today, almost no one there, met one other Jewish family. A freind of mine claimed that you never know where the anti Semite with the camera is, and he will claim that the Jews are out on their trips and don’t care about rules. How far do we have to go because of these anti-semites? Are we supposed to stay locked indoors
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 13, 2020, 12:33:30 AM
Went to Niagara Falls today, almost no one there, met one other Jewish family. A freind of mine claimed that you never know where the anti Semite with the camera is, and he will claim that the Jews are out on their trips and don’t care about rules. How far do we have to go because of these anti-semites? Are we supposed to stay locked indoors
What rule is there not to go to outdoor parks if you are keeping to social distancing?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: SamCan on April 13, 2020, 12:35:55 AM
What rule is there not to go to outdoor parks if you are keeping to social distancing?

There isn’t, but anti Semites  are very good at making stuff up, or taking things out of context.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 13, 2020, 01:21:54 AM
Went to Niagara Falls today, almost no one there, met one other Jewish family. A freind of mine claimed that you never know where the anti Semite with the camera is, and he will claim that the Jews are out on their trips and don’t care about rules. How far do we have to go because of these anti-semites? Are we supposed to stay locked indoors
Pretty much, yes, to the best of your ability
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Shmobaum on April 13, 2020, 02:38:45 AM
What rule is there not to go to outdoor parks if you are keeping to social distancing?
There is in NJ. All parks are closed.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 13, 2020, 03:49:52 AM
There is in NJ. All parks are closed.
Only County parks
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 13, 2020, 03:55:07 AM
Only County parks
a day later the state closed as well
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 13, 2020, 08:59:18 AM
There is in NJ. All parks are closed.
Last I checked, Niagara falls is in New York and Canada
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Shmobaum on April 13, 2020, 10:08:47 AM
Last I checked, Niagara falls is in New York and Canada
Oops.. sorry about that!
Thought it was in Lakewood...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 13, 2020, 10:57:03 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 13, 2020, 11:25:52 AM
Invalid Tweet ID

It really doesn't pay to engage with certain people. If there's a chance to influence and educate, go ahead. But for anti Semitic trolls, just Let It Go
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 14, 2020, 09:00:51 AM
And there's a new petition on Change.org  :( https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-shut-down-lakewood-nj

Quote
SHUT DOWN LAKEWOOD, NJ

85% of Kimball Hospital in Lakewood, NJ has positive cases of Covid-19. The major of the population within Lakewood, NJ are Hasidic and Orthodox. The Police had to shut down more than one party that they conducted. Our brave male and female Cops in Lakewood are now testing positive for Covid-19. The Jewish community is now conducting merchandise and testing within peoples cars, local parking lots as they decline the general public. If this was the general population we would be charged and thrown into jail. All the laws issued by President Trump should be obeyed by all with no exceptions. Lakewood, NJ has nearly 400 cases tested positive for covid-19. If Lakewood, NJ does not get shut down, the surrounding towns which include, Brick, Toms River, Jackson and Howell, will continue to have positive cases of covid-19. Help me by signing this petition to end the out of control population in Lakewood, NJ to stay safe, and to end the Pandemic so we can go on with our lives again.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: simple26 on April 14, 2020, 09:06:52 AM
And there's a new petition on Change.org  :( https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-shut-down-lakewood-nj
Ant truth to the claim of undercover testing ?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 14, 2020, 09:40:58 AM
I'm ready to become an anti-semite too. I walk out my front door, I live in middle of the block, and a guy who lives across the avenue on the next block is davening in my front yard with a street minyan!!! They brought out a table for kriyas hatorah. I just cant anymore. I ask him to leave and he starts pacing back and forth on the sidewalk right in front of the house...which I of course dont own or control. Yesterday, one of these idiots was davening under a porch on someone elses property due to the rain, knowing that those people werent home for yom tov. Yes I am ready to go full blown anti semite.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 14, 2020, 09:43:38 AM
I'm ready to become an anti-semite too. I walk out my front door, I live in middle of the block, and a guy who lives across the avenue on the next block is davening in my front yard with a street minyan!!! They brought out a table for kriyas hatorah. I just cant anymore. I ask him to leave and he starts pacing back and forth on the sidewalk right in front of the house...which I of course dont own or control. Yesterday, one of these idiots was davening under a porch on someone elses property due to the rain, knowing that those people werent home for yom tov. Yes I am ready to go full blown anti semite.
You could just dislike New Yorkers. It's not all Jews....
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 14, 2020, 09:46:50 AM
You could just dislike New Yorkers. It's not all Jews....
Nichamti...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 09:47:09 AM
I'm ready to become an anti-semite too. I walk out my front door, I live in middle of the block, and a guy who lives across the avenue on the next block is davening in my front yard with a street minyan!!! They brought out a table for kriyas hatorah. I just cant anymore. I ask him to leave and he starts pacing back and forth on the sidewalk right in front of the house...which I of course dont own or control. Yesterday, one of these idiots was davening under a porch on someone elses property due to the rain, knowing that those people werent home for yom tov. Yes I am ready to go full blown anti semite.

Come to FL. You get to complain about NY Jews all the time.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 14, 2020, 09:48:52 AM


Come to anywhere oot. You get to complain about NY Jews all the time.

Ftfy
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 09:51:14 AM

Ftfy

Fair, although no place gets invaded like FL. Tishrei, Chanukah, yeshiva week, Pesach, summer vacation, aside from all the random other times.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 14, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
I'm ready to become an anti-semite too. I walk out my front door, I live in middle of the block, and a guy who lives across the avenue on the next block is davening in my front yard with a street minyan!!! They brought out a table for kriyas hatorah. I just cant anymore. I ask him to leave and he starts pacing back and forth on the sidewalk right in front of the house...which I of course dont own or control. Yesterday, one of these idiots was davening under a porch on someone elses property due to the rain, knowing that those people werent home for yom tov. Yes I am ready to go full blown anti semite.
I have no clue what takes place in NY, but it's fair to say that Lakewood is MORE compliant that the surrounding townships. Lakewood rabbonim have come out with stricter guidelines than the officials, and the community has been listening almost 100 percent.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 14, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
And there's a new petition on Change.org  :( https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-shut-down-lakewood-nj
Wow, that was fast!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: simple26 on April 14, 2020, 12:06:28 PM
Nichamti...
Maybe this is better ..read in multiple media people making corona PARTIES I think ten people standing on porches is better then that
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: skyguy918 on April 14, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
You could just dislike New Yorkers. It's not all Jews....
Nor is it all NY'ers by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 14, 2020, 12:57:40 PM
Nor is it all NY'ers by any stretch of the imagination.
Course not. I was just kidding
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 17, 2020, 12:54:42 AM
http://shorenewsnetwork.com/2020/04/16/calogero-rises-up-as-a-leader-after-community-demands-stricter-enforcement-of-covid-19-rules-in-lakewood/

Now let him request national guard intervension in the african american communities in Newark and some of the other places with much higher levels of coronavirus.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 17, 2020, 01:18:39 AM
http://shorenewsnetwork.com/2020/04/16/calogero-rises-up-as-a-leader-after-community-demands-stricter-enforcement-of-covid-19-rules-in-lakewood/

Now let him request national guard intervension in the african american communities in Newark and some of the other places with much higher levels of coronavirus.
Terrible. I see that News12 picked it up also: It's blatant falsehood. Lakewood has not had an incident of a wedding or the like in over 2 weeks. The only issue since was one store that got a citation for operating. The haters will hate with no rhyme or reason. Even many of the local secular media sources are reporting that the level of compliance tops any other place.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 17, 2020, 01:31:56 AM
https://www.facebook.com/1006929819/posts/10218974559327415/?d=n

The author of this post is not Jewish and sits on Rockland's human rights commission.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 17, 2020, 01:33:25 AM
Wow Lakewood is surrounded by some haters, definitely worth making the case with איבה. Lakewood is probably gold comparing to Brooklyn with compliance, but thanks G-d the stone throwers here are quarantined. Other than reporting on the big funerals there isn't that much exposure B"H. Most likely due to different neighboring demographics.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 17, 2020, 04:06:59 AM
https://www.facebook.com/1006929819/posts/10218974559327415/?d=n

The author of this post is not Jewish and sits on Rockland's human rights commission.
Good to finally see a sympathetic post from a non-Jew! (I mean on social media, @CountValentine)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: moish on April 17, 2020, 06:01:40 AM
Wow Lakewood is surrounded by some haters, definitely worth making the case with איבה. Lakewood is probably gold comparing to Brooklyn with compliance, but thanks G-d the stone throwers here are quarantined. Other than reporting on the big funerals there isn't that much exposure B"H. Most likely due to different neighboring demographics.
Was a story on NJ.com of shutting down a big chol hamoed backyard party and a crowded toy store
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 17, 2020, 08:19:30 AM
Was a story on NJ.com of shutting down a big chol hamoed backyard party and a crowded toy store
I didn't see that until now, but just checked it up. Yes, the toy store is a valid point, though the article mentions that that parking lot was full while failing to mention that the store shares a parking lot with the town's largest grocery store. Regarding the backyard party - all seven people charged with violating the emergency order live in New York. It's a weird story, and I'm not sure what to make of it.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 17, 2020, 08:22:38 AM
On a side note, Newark continues to have an average of about 75 incidents EACH DAY of people violating social distancing. The town is about 2-2.5 times the size of Lakewood, but the numbers (compared to 2 incidents or so in 2 weeks) show that facts don't really matter to haters.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 18, 2020, 09:14:26 PM
Terrible. I see that News12 picked it up also: It's blatant falsehood. Lakewood has not had an incident of a wedding or the like in over 2 weeks. The only issue since was one store that got a citation for operating. The haters will hate with no rhyme or reason. Even many of the local secular media sources are reporting that the level of compliance tops any other place.
Here's an opinion piece from Asbury Park Press editor Randy Bergmann: https://www.app.com/story/opinion/columnists/2020/04/18/jackson-officials-witless-remarks-reinforce-townships-reputation-anti-semitism/5159013002/
Quote
Jackson official's witless remarks reinforce township's reputation for anti-Semitism | Bergmann

In an apparent attempt to cement the reputation of Jackson’s public officials as being anti-Semitic, Council President Barry Calogera used his pulpit to call on Gov. Murphy to order the N.J. National Guard into Lakewood to help stop illegal social gatherings.

Calogero apparently had seen and read reports of occasional violations of social distancing rules in the majority Orthodox Jewish community. He apparently did not see Murphy address that concern at a coronavirus press briefing.

Murphy quite correctly condemned those who had used social media to seize on a few scattered violations of statewide restrictions to condemn the community as a whole. That is exactly how bigotry works:  Point to the worst behavior of a few and apply it to an entire group.

Murphy took to social media himself to underscore his disgust with the anti-Semitism, tweeting: "Scapegoating, bullying, or vilification of any community is completely unacceptable —  today or ever.

"There is a special place in hell for the small minority that do this during this crisis.”

Calogero either missed the message or felt the need to exploit the incidents to score political points with what he believes is a winning message with his constituents: “I’m here to keep the Orthodox at bay.”

At Tuesday's Township Council meeting, Calogero said the extreme measure of calling in the National Guard was necessary because of the “selfishness,” “irresponsibility” and “inability” of some people in Ocean County to follow Murphy's social distancing orders.

"Unfortunately, there are groups of people who hide behind cultures and religious beliefs, and put first responders, and quite honestly all of Jackson and bordering towns, at risk,” Calogero said at Tuesday night’s township council meeting.

Calogero's comments were far more disturbing than the garden-variety bigotry that defiles social media.  First, he is a public official spouting this nonsense at a public meeting.  Second, he is an administrator for the federal government, serving as state executive director of the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Farm Service Agency. That kind of behavior, which could be construed as inciting further bigotry, if not outright violence, against the Orthodox Jews, could be in violation of his contract.  If it isn't, it should be. 

Third, Calogero's remarks come at a time when Lakewood is mourning the loss of more than 50 of its residents from COVID-19 and praying for the recovery of the more than 1,200 others with cases of the virus. The remarks, and their timing, couldn't have been any more insensitive. 

Did Calogero really expect Murphy to order troops into Lakewood? If so, why didn't he directly contact Murphy's office instead of grandstanding at a council meeting? Did he first check with the Lakewood police, county sheriff or county prosecutor to see if they needed the help? Did he watch any of the videos showing the empty streets of Lakewood over the past few weeks?  There was no inkling from anyone in local law enforcement that it was time for Murphy to call in the posse.

Jackson is facing two federal lawsuits that accuse township officials of anti-Semitism. Calogero's witless public remarks are certain to further weaken the township's defense — and further reinforce township officials' reputation for anti-Orthodox bigotry.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 18, 2020, 10:52:32 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 18, 2020, 10:56:33 PM
Just look at the comments on this video. So many misinformed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WE80_o6x854
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 19, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 19, 2020, 05:42:46 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/opinion-trump-appointee-barry-calogero-signs-his-name-in-the-book-of-bigots-g-sonnenfeld.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 20, 2020, 06:44:30 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 06:51:47 PM

The AG didn't even say that it is not okay. Only that they haven't reviewed it and that it either complies or doesn't. Very clear that this is really just arranging it before to ensure that there is an nderstanding and that it will comply to all existing regulations.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on April 20, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
Why does he consider this a "hit piece"? I found the piece to be fairly balanced.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Alexsei on April 20, 2020, 06:55:36 PM
https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/444376/williamsburg-yeshivas-secret-schools-apartments-synagogues-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 20, 2020, 06:59:35 PM
Why does he consider this a "hit piece"? I found the piece to be fairly balanced.
So why wasn't even one of the Lakewood sources asked about the AG's comments? They may be a simple explanation?

Also, if you look at the responses on Twitter, you know that framing a headline like this will open a torrent of the worst haters and bigots.

Lastly: (the first point is 100 percent true)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 20, 2020, 07:12:22 PM
https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/444376/williamsburg-yeshivas-secret-schools-apartments-synagogues-coronavirus/

Wrong thread.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 20, 2020, 07:17:20 PM
Wrong thread.
itll be here soon
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Alexsei on April 20, 2020, 07:29:04 PM
Wrong thread.
Can a semite by a antisemite?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 20, 2020, 07:32:59 PM
Can a semite by a antisemite?
A Semite is a descendant of Shaim ben Noach - which includes Amaleik and Arabs. Many of them have been calls Anti-Semites - even though that term is incorrect.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 20, 2020, 07:36:16 PM
Can a semite by a antisemite?
I think the story is fair and newsworthy. Believe me, there's no love lost between me and the Forward.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on April 20, 2020, 07:41:17 PM

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 20, 2020, 07:55:17 PM
I think the story is fair and newsworthy. Believe me, there's no love lost between me and the Forward.
It was written fairly but is based on one anonymous source with no collaboration. An unnamed school having classes in an unnamed location reported by an unnamed individual.  Also it wasn't clear if this is going on now or a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 20, 2020, 08:02:53 PM
It was written fairly but is based on one anonymous source with no collaboration. An unnamed school having classes in an unnamed location reported by an unnamed individual.  Also it wasn't clear if this is going on now or a few weeks ago.
I think a blacked out screen shot would be good to add, and if they know what school it is they should request comment from the school. But higher profile stories are broken on less than this.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 20, 2020, 10:54:31 PM
I think a blacked out screen shot would be good to add, and if they know what school it is they should request comment from the school. But higher profile stories are broken on less than this.
Why is there two paragraphs tying it to Hareidim and Lakewood? pure bigotry.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 12:42:53 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 21, 2020, 12:46:58 PM
I remember always hearing that (insert gadol’s name here) said the reason for sports, shows etc. is to keep people busy and at bay so as not to be constantly busy hating on the Jews. In these times you can see that...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on April 21, 2020, 12:57:48 PM
I remember always hearing that (insert gadol’s name here) said the reason for sports, shows etc. is to keep people busy and at bay so as not to be constantly busy hating on the Jews. In these times you can see that...
Were there no sports in December?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 21, 2020, 02:54:52 PM
Were there no sports in December?
אלא שבכל דור ודור עומדים עלינו לכלותינו והקב׳׳ה מצילנו מידם, not only during a pandemic.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 21, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
I think a blacked out screen shot would be good to add, and if they know what school it is they should request comment from the school. But higher profile stories are broken on less than this.
I take back my comments. No mention was made of an attempt to reach the school for comment. The result was possibly a misleading or downright false story.


Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 21, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/444376/williamsburg-yeshivas-secret-schools-apartments-synagogues-coronavirus/
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/brooklyn-yeshivas-moving-underground-to-avoid-lockdown-rules/

Unfortunately the NY Compost has now picked up this story. Not only that they even got Moster the moiser on the case.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 21, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/brooklyn-yeshivas-moving-underground-to-avoid-lockdown-rules/

Unfortunately the NY Compost has now picked up this story. Not only that they even got Moster the moiser on the case.
Their signature lines:

"according to a report"
"a source told The Forward."

Concluding with: "yeshiva advocate Nafulti Moster told The Post on Tuesday"

Well, thanks God they aren't taken serious.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 06:03:31 PM
Their signature lines:

"according to a report"
"a source told The Forward."

Concluding with: "yeshiva advocate Nafulti Moster told The Post on Tuesday"

Well, thanks God they aren't taken serious.
And the next sentence is "Moster and others have accused yeshivas of failing to teach secular subjects in favor of religious immersion in recent years"
Interesting advocacy.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 21, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
Their signature lines:

"according to a report"
"a source told The Forward."

Concluding with: "yeshiva advocate Nafulti Moster told The Post on Tuesday"

Well, thanks God they aren't taken serious.

I know & you know that Moster is a ....... but the goy reading the paper doesnt know.....
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 21, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
Don't think this is direct antisemitism. I think it is a result from the narrative that antisemitism has built.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 21, 2020, 10:49:34 PM
Don't think this is direct antisemitism. I think it is a result from the narrative that antisemitism has built.

this is precisely why Lakewood has to go above & beyond with minyanim, shopping etc. to make sure there is no aiva. Every move a yid makes here is watched by hungry dogs
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 21, 2020, 10:59:15 PM


this is precisely why Lakewood has to go above & beyond all the time not just with minyanim, shopping etc. to make sure there is no aiva. Every move a yid makes here is watched by hungry dogs always not just now.
Ftfy
Glad people are finally starting to wake up, but it will take more than just complying with social distancing.....
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 21, 2020, 11:41:41 PM
Don't think this is direct antisemitism. I think it is a result from the narrative that antisemitism has built.
What does it mean "being told to self isolate"

Almost the whole country is under stay at home orders. Is there something else in NY and Lakewood I don't know about?

That being said the singling out of Lakewood might not be Antisemitism just practically they have a fairly high number of patients from Lakewood.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 11:47:10 PM
Don't think this is direct antisemitism. I think it is a result from the narrative that antisemitism has built.

This is crazy! Lakewood is number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 22, 2020, 12:43:25 AM
This is crazy! Lakewood is number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.

We keep quoting stats about how Lakewood has so many fewer cases than some other place in NJ or the US as if it's going to stop anti-Semitism. Haters gonna hate. The narrative just changes to, "Those Jews spread that thing around, used up all the hospital beds, and left the rest of us to suffer their consequences."
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 01:01:52 AM
We keep quoting stats about how Lakewood has so many fewer cases than some other place in NJ or the US as if it's going to stop anti-Semitism. Haters gonna hate. The narrative just changes to, "Those Jews spread that thing around, used up all the hospital beds, and left the rest of us to suffer their consequences."
+1000 Changing the complaint isn’t news, everyone does it. But we shouldn’t be feeding them, we do need to be careful.

As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, the same people who said it was the flu, when forced to back down, then said well driving also kills people, when they realized that straw man doesn’t work, they said well now everyone already has it so this isn’t worth it, when they realized that’s not true, they said well a second wave will be deadlier so let’s try to have everyone get it slowly and steadily.. same argument, different reasons, because it’s not about the facts, it’s an agenda.

People with an agenda will always look for and find an excuse, but we should prevent them having more fodder to throw to those as yet undecided.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 22, 2020, 01:10:48 AM
This is crazy! Lakewood is at least number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.
FTFY.

There may be many more towns with a higher per capita rate.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on April 22, 2020, 01:11:50 AM
+1000 Changing the complaint isn’t news, everyone does it. But we shouldn’t be feeding them, we do need to be careful.

As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, the same people who said it was the flu, when forced to back down, then said well driving also kills people, when they realized that straw man doesn’t work, they said well now everyone already has it so this isn’t worth it, when they realized that’s not true, they said well a second wave will be deadlier so let’s try to have everyone get it slowly and steadily.. same argument, different reasons, because it’s not about the facts, it’s an agenda.

People with an agenda will always look for and find an excuse, but we should prevent them having more fodder to throw to those as yet undecided.

I disagree. I was raised that you don't argue with missionaries. You lead by example and reach out to the same people the missionaries target with love and emes, and the people will realize the truth for themselves.

Like I said before, haters gonna hate. You'll never change their minds. Instead of expressing shock and making them alter their arguments a little at a time, lead by example and flood your world with goodness until the "undecided" say, "MI k'amcha Yisroel!" As most non-Jews can attest, by seeing what a Jew is really all about, they see through the bigotry without you having to constantly argue.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 01:12:40 AM
This is crazy! Lakewood is at most number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.

FTFY.

There may be many more towns with a higher per capita rate.
FTFY  ;)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 22, 2020, 06:40:06 AM
...but we should prevent them having more fodder to throw to those as yet undecided.
I guess someone does understand.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 22, 2020, 09:54:45 AM
I guess someone does understand.
We all understand. It's OK if a Jew wants to be extra careful and take unnecessary precautions just to appease anti Semites. It's a free country. But it's anti Semitic for someone else to expect that of a Jew, and anti Semitic to blame a Jew for anti semitism for not appeasing anti Semites.

   
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: AsherO on April 22, 2020, 10:02:32 AM
This is crazy! Lakewood is number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.


Lakewood population seems to be (much) higher than many of the 51 towns, what does that say Lakewood’s per capita rate? On the one hand if it’s more densely populated then you’d expect higher numbers, on the other hand some of these towns are tiny and their per capita rate is possibly statistically insignificant. I.e. in a town with a few hundred people or less, every single person who tests positive moves the needle as far as the per capita rate.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: AsherO on April 22, 2020, 10:04:22 AM
Another thing to consider in this list of towns is their per capita testing volume. My guess is Lakewood tested much more (per capita) than some of these towns, meaning that if you increased the tests in other NJ towns Lakewood might move further down the list.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 22, 2020, 10:36:54 AM
We all understand. It's OK if a Jew wants to be extra careful and take unnecessary precautions just to appease anti Semites. It's a free country. But it's anti Semitic for someone else to expect that of a Jew, and anti Semitic to blame a Jew for anti semitism for not appeasing anti Semites. 
Repeating the same thing over and over does not help one understand.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 22, 2020, 02:07:35 PM
Don't think this is direct antisemitism. I think it is a result from the narrative that antisemitism has built.
This is crazy! Lakewood is number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.

I wasn't comprehensive, but to me it looks like all of the 50k+ population municipalities which have a higher rate than Lakewood would be included as counties surrounding NYC. Lakewood stands out in its connection to NYC despite it not being as close geographically. In fact, parts of NYC are suburbs of Lakewood!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 23, 2020, 11:52:06 AM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 23, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
There was a story on a local website about all the violations in Lakewood yesterday (i'm not linking it because it has names) It lists all the details including names ages and nature of offense. The article ends with this line.
Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday.

I emailed the writer of the article the following:

I read your article on the social distancing violations in Lakewood with great interest.
One line really caught my attention. At the end you note that Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday. 
That got me wondering why the violations in Lakewood  warrant a full article with all the details like names, ages and nature of the offenses yet the violations in Newark barely warrant a mention.
Are you discriminating against the predominantly african american population in Newark or against the predominantly jewish population in Lakewood?.

Thank you
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 23, 2020, 01:13:45 PM
There was a story on a local website about all the violations in Lakewood yesterday (i'm not linking it because it has names) It lists all the details including names ages and nature of offense. The article ends with this line.
Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday.

I emailed the writer of the article the following:

I read your article on the social distancing violations in Lakewood with great interest.
One line really caught my attention. At the end you note that Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday. 
That got me wondering why the violations in Lakewood  warrant a full article with all the details like names, ages and nature of the offenses yet the violations in Newark barely warrant a mention.
Are you discriminating against the predominantly african american population in Newark or against the predominantly jewish population in Lakewood?.

Thank you
If it is APP or the like the ansewr is simple. One is in their coverage area and not the other.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on April 23, 2020, 01:34:27 PM
If it is APP or the like the ansewr is simple. One is in their coverage area and not the other.
NJ.com
 I think it covers the whole state.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on April 23, 2020, 01:44:57 PM
NJ.com
 I think it covers the whole state.
Now we got the names.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 23, 2020, 01:45:53 PM
There was a story on a local website about all the violations in Lakewood yesterday (i'm not linking it because it has names) It lists all the details including names ages and nature of offense. The article ends with this line.
Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday.

I emailed the writer of the article the following:

I read your article on the social distancing violations in Lakewood with great interest.
One line really caught my attention. At the end you note that Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday. 
That got me wondering why the violations in Lakewood  warrant a full article with all the details like names, ages and nature of the offenses yet the violations in Newark barely warrant a mention.
Are you discriminating against the predominantly african american population in Newark or against the predominantly jewish population in Lakewood?.

Thank you
Great letter.

I saw the article as well and one thing jumped out at me. The writer made sure the write "Meanwhile, the Newark police division’s COVID-19 task force issued 29 for violations of the emergency orders in the state’s largest city Tuesday." As though that number is excused because it's the largest city.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 23, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
NJ.com
 I think it covers the whole state.
It's actually the state's largest media outlet. The print edition of it is The Star Leger.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: momo on April 23, 2020, 02:16:15 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/thousands-of-new-york-orthodox-jews-donate-plasma-to-fight-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 23, 2020, 02:30:44 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 23, 2020, 06:19:13 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/OJPAC/status/1253437305064321026
@CountValentine
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 24, 2020, 11:26:55 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/04/research-study-on-jewish-community-responses-to-covid-19-tzvi-pirutinsky-ph-d.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 25, 2020, 09:35:15 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on April 26, 2020, 01:27:39 AM
https://mishpacha.com/gift-of-life/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 26, 2020, 11:41:32 AM

Quote
OPINION
Coronavirus: Don't use noncompliant actions of a few to vilify an entire group | Letter
Letter to editor

An April 21 letter asserted that the venom directed at Lakewood’s Orthodox community in the wake of reports of social distancing infractions is not anti-Semitism, but anti “citizens who do not comply.”

According to Attorney General Gurbir Grewal’s daily updates, on April 19 to April 20, the Newark Police Department’s COVID-19 task force issued 37 summonses for violations of the emergency orders, 30 summonses on April 18, 88 on April 17, 90 on April 16, and so forth. The letter cited Lakewood’s 1,200 cases and 50 deaths in a population of 102,000 as proof of widespread misdeeds.

As of April 22 Newark had 4,299 cases of COVID-19 and 297 deaths, with a population of 281,000.

To my knowledge, nobody has created an online petition to quarantine Newark. Leaders of neighboring towns have not asked Gov. Murphy to call in the National Guard. And social media is not awash in rage and contempt directed at Newark.

It is reasonable for people to be upset with those who jeopardize public health. But when the actions of 200 people are used to vilify 102,000 law-abiding citizens, and when some infractions are deemed more newsworthy and evoke more rage than others, it is reasonable to ask why. 

Nechama A. Basser

Lakewood
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 26, 2020, 11:45:57 AM
@CountValentine
What?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 26, 2020, 08:15:27 PM

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cholent on April 26, 2020, 09:03:58 PM
Beautiful. Wrong thread, though
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 26, 2020, 09:18:45 PM
Beautiful. Wrong thread, though

Could be cross posted in a bunch of threads. Just showing how the same behavior can be viewed completely differently depending on what lenses you are using.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 26, 2020, 11:19:15 PM
https://mynorthwest.com/1833965/rantz-wa-dem-chair-tina-podlodowski-anti-semitism/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Eb228 on April 26, 2020, 11:29:46 PM
https://mynorthwest.com/1833965/rantz-wa-dem-chair-tina-podlodowski-anti-semitism/

Thats honestly more like the Jew that yells anti semite if anyone attacks him in anyway.
She was very much so targeting republicans, not Jews [albeit in an uneducated ignorant way]
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on April 26, 2020, 11:31:09 PM
Thats honestly more like the Jew that yells anti semite if anyone attacks him in anyway.
She was very much so targeting republicans, not Jews [albeit in an uneducated ignorant way]
Sort of agree, though I don’t know the history there
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 27, 2020, 12:10:16 AM
Petition number 3: https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-stop-lakewood-you-aren-t-above-the-law

Quote
Stop Lakewood- You aren’t above the law.


Brielle Perrotta started this petition to Governor Phil Murphy and 3 others

It is disgusting that yet again Lakewood, New Jersey is getting away with murder. Their behavior, morals, ethics, safety, and COMMON SENSE, are just a few of Lakewood’s specialty’s that anywhere else in the State or Country, WOULD NOT be tolerated.

The Hasidic Community of Lakewood, New Jersey has taken matters into their own hands as they still continue to party, practice their religion, and continue their every day lives with COVID-19 spreading like wild fire. Even with Gov. Murphy’s orders of banning parties and gatherings, they have not respected any of the new COVID policies currently in place due to the pandemic. In addition, the Mayor of Lakewood just announced that a Lakewood venue will host small wedding ceremonies during COVID.  Oh did I not mention that the Hasidic community had 8 weddings taking place after Gov. Murphy’s orders not to. That the Lakewood police department who risk their lives everyday had to put themselves at risk during a time banning these kinds of ceremonies because the Hasidic's don’t care about anyone but themselves and still continued to do what they want when they want. Or how the Hasidic community were still sending their children to school weeks after the rest of the state was now having online classes due to the outbreak. While everyone else is practicing their religion via Zoom or Facebook Live video, the Hasidic community continued to gather in person and practice out of their Synagogues.

The whole idea of banning get togethers and ceremonies is to limit the amount of contact us individuals make with one another. The more contact we have with others, the more likely you will be exposed to someone who has COVID-19 whether they are aware of it or not. The problem here is that we, yes we as in Toms River, Brick, Howell, Manchester, Jackson, and Freehold, all come into contact with the Lakewood community when grocery shopping in particular and this is when the spread most likely will happen.


Why is it fair that the Hasidic community is above the law. That’s what it seems like and someone needs to do something about it. NOW.

“We are New Jersey. We can do this,” Murphy said. "We have lived our lives punching above our weight. No state has more attitude or character. We are a special place. We can crush the top of that curve if we act as one.” (Arco, 2020) Those fine words are the words of Gov. Phil Murphy. If you notice the very last sentence says, “We can crush the top of that curve if we ACT AS ONE.” Maybe I should break that sentence down for the Lakewood residents who do not understand.. ACT AS ONE. We need to act TOGETHER in order for us, all of us, the Hasidic community in particular, to overcome and slowly take down that curve day by day.

 

Ocean County has 4,868 confirmed COVID cases. 1,214 confirmed cases are from Lakewood. Ocean County has 149 confirmed deaths from COVID-19. 50 of those are confirmed deaths from Lakewood.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 27, 2020, 12:15:49 AM
Petition number 3: https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-stop-lakewood-you-aren-t-above-the-law

Petition:

Block change.org from all Ocean County residents as they clearly can't stop themselves from creating meaningless petitions
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Chapshnell on April 27, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
Petition:

Block change.org from all Ocean County residents as they clearly can't stop themselves from creating meaningless petitions

Brielle Perrotta Is a 24 year old loser from Toms River.
Bored people doing stupid bored things
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Shmobaum on April 27, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
Who cares for petitions?? So passč. If you don’t believe me ask @Dan
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on April 27, 2020, 12:39:13 AM
Petition number 3: https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-stop-lakewood-you-aren-t-above-the-law
where is that picture from? and when?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 27, 2020, 12:45:08 AM
where is that picture from? and when?
That wedding took place in the afternoon of March 17, when the restriction on gatherings over 50 had just gone into effect, but schools were still open (schools closed the next day). Many people assumed that outdoor gatherings were not included in the ban, and in fact, the police noted that it was too early after the order was issued to actually assume everyone knew about it. (No tickets or citations were issued at that event.) I actually passed by that very wedding and most people were actually standing at some distance from each other. The camera angle makes it seem like a very dense crowd, but in reality, it wasn't like that.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 27, 2020, 01:01:25 AM
Zero people have signed her petition, well, people probably disagree will the whole "The Hasidic Community of Lakewood" idea of hers.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Shmobaum on April 27, 2020, 01:04:57 AM
Zero people have signed her petition, well, people probably disagree will the whole "The Hasidic Community of Lakewood" idea of hers.
The Lakewood “olam” is more upset at her for categorizing them as chasidish than anything !!
Hahaha
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: israshot on April 27, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
The Lakewood “olam” is more upset at her for categorizing them as chasidish than anything !!
Hahaha
ALOL!
R' Aron wouldn't be happy and rightfully.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 27, 2020, 08:37:57 AM
Zero people have signed her petition...
Seems you took care of that.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on April 27, 2020, 10:48:38 AM
Petition number 3: https://www.change.org/p/phil-murphy-stop-lakewood-you-aren-t-above-the-law
removed
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: skyguy918 on April 27, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Wasn't sure exactly where to put this, but here seems as good a place as any:
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whacked1 on April 28, 2020, 09:59:41 PM
1255309615883063297[/tweet]] (http://[tweet)[/url]
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 10:09:07 PM
This is why we can't have minyanim. Pics from a minyan today in NYC
Aiva doesnt care about whataboutism. Aiva doesnt care about double standards. We are still not allowed to do things and on the flip side allowed to do certain prohibited things Mishum Aiva. Levaya of Rebbe or socially not distanced minyanim are not those prohibited things!!!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 28, 2020, 10:13:04 PM
Aiva doesnt care about whataboutism. Aiva doesnt care about double standards. We are still not allowed to do things and on the flip side allowed to do certain prohibited things Mishum Aiva. Levaya of Rebbe or socially not distanced minyanim are not those prohibited things!!!
The double standard is still anti-semitism. If police profile with their traffic stops then "Officer he was speeding too" is a very valid legal claim.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 28, 2020, 10:16:46 PM
1255309615883063297[/tweet]][/url]

Just completely and utterly gobsmacked right now. (http://[tweet)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 10:20:28 PM
That's for the minyan thread.
I don't daven with a minyan because my Rabbanim in consultation with medical professionals decided it was to risky.
I don't shake hands with women even though it may cause aiva. I wear a yarmulka even though many claim it causes aiva. Whole certain things are prohibited or permitted because of aiva, I'm not not sure your entirely correct here.
Continue poking the bear. It just ate and isnt hungry right now so the poking wont do anything. What cant you understand about the optics of this.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 28, 2020, 10:31:26 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on April 28, 2020, 10:40:21 PM
Aiva doesnt care about whataboutism. Aiva doesnt care about double standards. We are still not allowed to do things and on the flip side allowed to do certain prohibited things Mishum Aiva. Levaya of Rebbe or socially not distanced minyanim are not those prohibited things!!!
You want to task aiva? Aiva is the idiots who feel the need to post this stuff on Twitter, blogs, etc. There is a very hot place set aside for then in gehinom
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 10:47:22 PM
Because optics aren't the end all of Judaism. Sometimes it's taken into account but definitely not the end all. I'm going to presume that you wear a streimel. I've personally heard people talk about those crazy people who wear funny fur hats and stick out like a sore thumb. If all your concerns about is optics, consider changing your clothing. There's more to social distancing that just optics. Why can't you see that.
Wow. You posted in the proper thread. You presume? 
1. I do not wear a shtreimel.
2. Please define Aiva in this context. I posit it is 100% optics ALWAYS. I will say it again, we are mechalel shabbos d'oraysos on safekk pikuach nefesh because of aiva...becuase we dont want trouble legally and because it looks bad. This was R' Moshe's Psak and you can ask Rav Dovid Cohen about it too.
3. What was done here was absolutely 100% wrong. If you cant admit that there is no need to continue this conversation. 
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 11:13:05 PM
Do I need to wake Chaim?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 28, 2020, 11:16:36 PM
Do I need to wake Chaim?
How did he have time to go to sleep?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Hjay on April 28, 2020, 11:25:14 PM
1255309615883063297[/tweet]][/url]

Not interested in a debate & not even attempting to discuss right wrong on the story he was tweeting about but just curious is there anybody here that can even attempt to justify those words in his tweet? (http://[tweet)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on April 28, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 11:27:10 PM
How did he have time to go to sleep?
I try to shelter him.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 11:29:52 PM
Not interested in a debate & not even attempting to discuss right wrong on the story he was tweeting about but just curious is there anybody here that can even attempt to justify those words in his tweet?
Did you really ask that?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 28, 2020, 11:38:03 PM
I try to shelter him.
He doesn't need to get out?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 11:42:24 PM
He doesn't need to get out?
He is Jewish. He loves living in his own little world.  :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 28, 2020, 11:43:03 PM
He is Jewish. He loves living in his own little world.  :)
Anti Semite!!!
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 28, 2020, 11:43:38 PM
Anti Semite!!!
Is this due to coronavirus? Or just fed up with servitude?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 11:45:56 PM
Anti Semite!!!
I learned this from creditboards. When you see individuals getting all worked up about something (even rightfully so) you side track the discussion to give them a break. Then you just bow out.  ;)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on April 28, 2020, 11:47:39 PM
I learned this from creditboards. When you see individuals getting all worked up about something (even rightfully so) you side track the discussion to give them a break. Then you just bow out.  ;)
We could use you in about ten other threads now...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 11:50:10 PM
We could use you in about ten other threads now...
...and also for myself lately.  :-[
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 30, 2020, 04:06:19 PM
Has there been a noticeable drop in (anti-Semitic) violence during this virus?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on April 30, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
Has there been a noticeable drop in (anti-Semitic) violence during this virus?
Decrease in physical, increase in cyber.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on April 30, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Has there been a noticeable drop in (anti-Semitic) violence during this virus?
I've been yelled at today from a passing car.we were standing at a corner, and he was yelling over his lungs, dirty Jews, dirty people.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on April 30, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
Decrease in physical, increase in cyber.
The cyber was a given.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on April 30, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
https://www.change.org/p/andrew-m-cuomo-impeach-mayor-bill-de-blasio
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on May 03, 2020, 10:28:39 PM
Boruch Hashem, it seems like it's been a rather quiet week in New Jersey.

On that note:
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on May 05, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Luvisrael on May 05, 2020, 06:29:54 PM
I've been yelled at today from a passing car.we were standing at a corner, and he was yelling over his lungs, dirty Jews, dirty people.
where
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on May 06, 2020, 11:39:00 PM
where
Williamsburg.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on May 07, 2020, 01:50:59 AM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on May 07, 2020, 01:56:59 AM
I guess it's the Jewish bankers suffering.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ah giten on May 07, 2020, 02:10:21 AM
Photo was removed. But comes to think why should market_watch even have such an image?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 07, 2020, 02:29:48 AM
Photo was removed. But comes to think why should market_watch even have such an image?
They use stock images like everyone else. Guy searches for Corona pictures, sees that picture, likes the easy it looks, and uses it. 99.8% chance the person who chose that picture had no idea they implications of his choice. But that's why you always need an editor and an extra set of eyes.

I once edited a kids magazine. We had a team of writers, editors, rabbis and educators combing through every word to make sure everything was up to standard. One issue had a feature on France, and the designer chose a picture of the Arch de Triomphe to go along with it. It looked great, everyone signed off on it and it was sent to the schools. As soon as we saw a print copy, we all immidiately saw the naked sculptures on the arch that weren't visible when looking at the pdf.

Not only do you need to edit, you need to edit in the context and form the material will be consumed. In this instance, when choosing a picture, you need to check how it will look in social media posts juxtaposed with the headline which is often cut off in middle.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on May 07, 2020, 08:31:21 AM
They use stock images like everyone else. Guy searches for Corona pictures, sees that picture, likes the easy it looks, and uses it. 99.8% chance the person who chose that picture had no idea they implications of his choice. But that's why you always need an editor and an extra set of eyes.

I once edited a kids magazine. We had a team of writers, editors, rabbis and educators combing through every word to make sure everything was up to standard. One issue had a feature on France, and the designer chose a picture of the Arch de Triomphe to go along with it. It looked great, everyone signed off on it and it was sent to the schools. As soon as we saw a print copy, we all immidiately saw the naked sculptures on the arch that weren't visible when looking at the pdf.

Not only do you need to edit, you need to edit in the context and form the material will be consumed. In this instance, when choosing a picture, you need to check how it will look in social media posts juxtaposed with the headline which is often cut off in middle.
(https://i.imgur.com/EMtkoUM.png)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: cmey on May 07, 2020, 10:28:51 AM
 Here’s what I don’t get. If governor Murphy truly believes that the only effective thing  is extreme social isolation, then it follows that Lakewood, (ocean county) which has one of the lowest doubling rates in the state (as per Murphy’s tweet) is in nearly 100% compliance, while the other areas of the state that have high doubling  rates are necessarily noncompliant. So why are so many state police and other enforcement resources being directed at Lakewood when they should all be mobilized to focus on the “non-compliant” areas?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yos9694 on May 07, 2020, 11:12:40 AM

Marketwatch is 95% a click-bait site. Don't misread that as antisemitism
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on May 11, 2020, 01:08:48 PM
They just couldn't resist the urge. Amazing.

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/story/42112368/coronavirus-restrictions-cause-cancellation-of-lag-bomer-in-orange-county
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 11, 2020, 02:29:36 PM
They just couldn't resist the urge. Amazing.

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/story/42112368/coronavirus-restrictions-cause-cancellation-of-lag-bomer-in-orange-county
(https://i.ibb.co/GFZJBBH/4-F07-C728-5-F13-453-E-8990-0845415-DF49-E.png) (https://ibb.co/mSnB11N)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Savingsbeast on May 11, 2020, 03:10:34 PM
Oh, so someone else did notice. I started to think that maybe I'm hypersensitive.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 11, 2020, 03:11:28 PM
Oh, so someone else did notice. I started to think that maybe I'm hypersensitive.
That’s not hypersensitive it’s blatant anti-Semitism
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 12, 2020, 10:16:50 PM
https://www.app.com/story/news/new-jersey/2020/05/12/anti-semitic-incidents-reach-record-levels-nj-adl-says/3117818001/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on May 12, 2020, 11:20:51 PM
https://www.app.com/story/news/crime/jersey-mayhem/2020/05/12/lakewood-rabbi-arrested-violating-gov-phil-murphys-executive-order/3116389001/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on May 12, 2020, 11:59:48 PM
https://www.app.com/story/news/crime/jersey-mayhem/2020/05/12/lakewood-rabbi-arrested-violating-gov-phil-murphys-executive-order/3116389001/
Not every violation involving someone Jewish is antisemitism
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Euclid on May 13, 2020, 12:01:31 AM
Not every violation involving someone Jewish is antisemitism
Yep - he's a well known grogger; he likes making noise.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on May 13, 2020, 12:02:08 AM
Not every violation involving someone Jewish is antisemitism
There's not enough info here to determine any real conclusion on the case.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on May 13, 2020, 12:20:07 AM
Not every violation involving someone Jewish is antisemitism
I actually meant the opposite. If you saw the videos of what went on....could definitely help cause anti semitism...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 13, 2020, 12:21:01 AM
There's not enough info here to determine any real conclusion on the case.
There's videos going around that I did not want to watch because it is disturbing. From what people describe, it matches up with why his "Beis Din" is banned by the poskim in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on May 13, 2020, 12:24:27 AM
There's videos going around that I did not want to watch because it is disturbing. From what people describe, it matches up with why his "Beis Din" is banned by the poskim in Lakewood.
Quite disturbing I'll say...I don't know anything about the case, but calling cops Nazis and gestapo is not smart
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Euclid on May 13, 2020, 12:26:02 AM
Quite disturbing I'll say...I don't know anything about the case, but calling cops Nazis and gestapo is not smart
Also, "just grow up" is the pretty much the most hilarious insult an adult can throw.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 13, 2020, 12:26:30 AM
Quite disturbing I'll say...I don't know anything about the case, but calling cops Nazis and gestapo is not smart
Oh my, can I say he's an idiot? I have no idea who he is.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on May 13, 2020, 12:28:02 AM
there was a fire on my block with dancing in the street, police came asked everyone to go home, they listened with out confrontation
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yitzgar on May 13, 2020, 12:31:35 AM
Oh my, can I say he's an idiot? I have no idea who he is.
To clarify it was bystanders throwing insults at the police
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 13, 2020, 12:32:46 AM
To clarify it was bystanders throwing insults at the police
That's even worse, because it means there's more than one... 🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: dealfinder11 on May 13, 2020, 10:29:42 AM
NYT vs daily mail

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/nyregion/virus-orthodox-plasma-donation.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8312765/New-York-Orthodox-Jews-make-HALF-plasma-donors-giving-blood-treat-COVID-19-patients.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: NTorch on May 13, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
NYT vs daily mail

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/nyregion/virus-orthodox-plasma-donation.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8312765/New-York-Orthodox-Jews-make-HALF-plasma-donors-giving-blood-treat-COVID-19-patients.html

For once I have no issue with the NYT. I thought the article was an amazing Kiddush Hashem.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 13, 2020, 02:08:48 PM
For once I have no issue with the NYT. I thought the article was an amazing Kiddush Hashem.
You should see the comments.. unreal. Goes to show that even an article portraying Jews in a good light is an “avak” Chillul Hashem.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Shmobaum on May 13, 2020, 02:12:28 PM
You should see the comments.. unreal. Goes to show that even an article portraying Jews in a good light is an “avak” Chillul Hashem.
As the gemara says; don’t talk in favor of a person cuz you’ll come to talk about his failings...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on May 13, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
To clarify it was bystanders throwing insults at the police
I would suppose that Rabbi Knopfler himself purposely wanted to get arrested to bolster his case that his religious rights are being violated.

As far as the bystanders (I didn't see the video but did see it reported) such conduct is shameful and goes a long way in causing aiva.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Euclid on May 13, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
I would suppose that Rabbi Knopfler himself purposely wanted to get arrested to bolster his case that his religious rights are being violated.

Wishing his lawyer luck proving that not allowing a bonfire on lag b'omer is somehow infringing on his religious rights.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on May 13, 2020, 03:24:31 PM
Wishing his lawyer luck proving that not allowing a bonfire on lag b'omer is somehow infringing on his religious rights.

I personally don't participate in a bonfire but for many it is very important

It is not up to the judge to decide how you practice your religion
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 13, 2020, 04:59:08 PM
Wishing his lawyer luck proving that not allowing a public bonfire on lag b'omer is somehow infringing on his religious rights.

FTFY to make the point even stronger.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 13, 2020, 06:18:14 PM
I personally don't participate in a bonfire but for many it is very important

It is not up to the judge to decide how you practice your religion
::)

Nothing personal, but which Am Ha'Aretz can justify a public bonfire this year? Crack open the dusty Shulchan Aruch, guys.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: ari3 on May 13, 2020, 09:16:36 PM
::)

Nothing personal, but which Am Ha'Aretz can justify a public bonfire this year? Crack open the dusty Shulchan Aruch, guys.
Your point is irrelevant to the discussion. We are discussing if someone would have a basis to say in secular court that his religious rights are being infringed upon. The judge doesn't have a shulchan aruch.

Btw I couldn't find the halacha you referenced in my shulchan aruch and its not dusty.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 13, 2020, 10:08:20 PM
Your point is irrelevant to the discussion. We are discussing if someone would have a basis to say in secular court that his religious rights are being infringed upon. The judge doesn't have a shulchan aruch.

Btw I couldn't find the halacha you referenced in my shulchan aruch and its not dusty.
Demonstrate the religious right, please. Whatever, I'm done trying to argue with stupidity.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on May 16, 2020, 11:03:10 PM
Quote
Enough with the anti-semitic lawsuits | Letter

Their way or NO WAY.

I'm (and I'm certain an army of your readers in Jackson are, too) getting tired of hearing that every dorm dispute, zoning law, busing issue and, yes, even the virus has to result in anti–Semitic lawsuits.

It seems that anyone who even as much as disagrees with anything going on in Lakewood, Jackson and the rest of the religious community created therein is going to be branded as anti–Semitic.

Enough, if it's against the law, it's against the law.

[ Disagree with this letter? Share your thoughts with a “letter to the editor” at yourviews@app.com. Please include your name, town and contact information. Limit is 250 words. ]

Bill Bresnan

Toms River
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: VacationLover on May 19, 2020, 05:25:49 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1862338/watch-news12-reporter-blaise-gomez-says-kiryas-joel-yeshiva-open-ny-state-police-say-its-legal.html
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yesitsme on May 19, 2020, 05:33:38 PM
https://www.app.com/story/life/faith/2020/05/19/coronavirus-lakewood-praying-alone-times-covid-19/5174221002/ (https://www.app.com/story/life/faith/2020/05/19/coronavirus-lakewood-praying-alone-times-covid-19/5174221002/)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 21, 2020, 01:39:52 AM
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 25, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
What??

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/one-in-five-english-people-believe-covid-is-a-jewish-conspiracy-survey-629187
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
What??

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/one-in-five-english-people-believe-covid-is-a-jewish-conspiracy-survey-629187
20% of people there are conspiracy theorists.
80% of people here are conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on May 25, 2020, 04:36:26 PM
What??

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/one-in-five-english-people-believe-covid-is-a-jewish-conspiracy-survey-629187

Misleading title. It should say, "20% of Britons Are Gullible Quacks Who Will Believe Any Conspiracy Theory."
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 06:05:32 PM
80% of people here are conspiracy theorists.

Are the 20% here driving on the wrong side of the highway?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 06:24:35 PM
Are the 20% here driving on the wrong side of the highway?
Can ask the same question to the 20% of European Jewry that escaped WW2, no?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 07:00:15 PM
Can ask the same question to the 20% of European Jewry that escaped WW2, no?
Just because it was a percent there and it's a percent here doesn't mean its comparable. Sometimes majority is right and sometimes the majority is wrong.

I've lived thru Covid, so I can speak for Covid.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on May 25, 2020, 07:08:35 PM
I've lived thru Covid, so I can speak for Covid.

Covid's over! And I missed it! I always sleep through these things...
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 07:33:41 PM
Just because it was a percent there and it's a percent here doesn't mean its comparable. Sometimes majority is right and sometimes the majority is wrong.

I've lived thru Covid, so I can speak for Covid.
Covid's over! And I missed it! I always sleep through these things...
And continue to.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on May 25, 2020, 07:38:25 PM
Covid's over! And I missed it! I always sleep through these things...
You didn't miss much, don't worry
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 07:39:28 PM
I've lived thru Covid, so I can speak for Covid.
What in the world is this supposed to mean?!?
Getting sick now makes you an expert in that disease?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 08:16:55 PM
What in the world is this supposed to mean?!?
Getting sick now makes you an expert in that disease?
What makes you think 80% are conspiracy theorists?

I can speak for what I hear from live people, read 1st hand info and witness myself, without a history book written by someone that has a narrative telling me what happened.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 08:31:09 PM
So you exclusively trust anecdotal information over expert information from people who have studied pandemics for a living.

That's like asking DDF what the weather was like when they were in Israel in July instead of relying on meteorologists and historical data.

There's a place for both, but assuming all experts have some agenda or narrative is a really bad approach.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 09:20:14 PM
So you exclusively trust anecdotal information over expert information from people who have studied pandemics for a living.

That's like asking DDF what the weather was like when they were in Israel in July instead of relying on meteorologists and historical data.

There's a place for both, but assuming all experts have some agenda or narrative is a really bad approach.

There are experts that say just about what you want to hear, every one decides who they want to listen too including government.  Cuomo agreed today his experts were wrong.

No ones knows for certain, but can take percussions. To what degree is debatable.

For some reason there is a major push on the left  to silence one side and narrative.

At what point when someone listens to one expert over another does he become a conspiracy theorist?

If I witnessed the the weather in July then, I can tell you what the weather in July is.

Who decides what experts to listen to and at what point do we say that some experts just cant be trusted?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 09:26:50 PM
There are experts that say just about what you want to hear, every one decides who they want to listen too including government.  Cuomo agreed today his experts were wrong.

No ones knows for certain, but can take percussions. To what degree is debatable.

For some reason there is a major push on the left  to silence one side and narrative.

At what point when someone listens to one expert over another does he become a conspiracy theorist?

If I witnessed the the weather in July then, I can tell you what the weather in July is.

Who decides what experts to listen to and at what point do we say that some experts just cant be trusted?

That's why it's important to be able to gather as much information as you can and make the best bigger picture of it as you can. I try doing that in my roundups.
Rejecting everything from what you don't want to hear is folly.

And you might know the weather for the days you were there. But that's meaningless for the next days or the same days the next year. You need more information to give someone an meaningful answer.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 25, 2020, 10:26:18 PM
@Dan I always marvel at your patience. I've always wondered if Eleff was shortened from Elephant, because you seem to have the patience of one.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on May 25, 2020, 10:39:55 PM
@Dan I always marvel at your patience. I've always wondered if Eleff was shortened from Elephant, because you seem to have the patience of one.
Well, his uncle also shortened his last name when he started singing.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 25, 2020, 10:40:57 PM
@Dan I always marvel at your patience. I've always wondered if Eleff was shortened from Elephant, because you seem to have the patience of one.

I have a memory like an Eleffant.

Since when do elephants have patience?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 25, 2020, 10:45:39 PM
For some reason there is a major push on the left  to silence one side and narrative.

Is it justified if it’ll save hundreds of thousands of lives?

ETA: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/what-can-coronavirus-tell-us-about-conspiracy-theories/610894/
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 25, 2020, 10:47:54 PM
Is it justified if it’ll save hundreds of thousands of lives?
It won't so let's leave that out.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 11:01:28 PM
That's why it's important to be able to gather as much information as you can and make the best bigger picture of it as you can. I try doing that in my roundups.
Rejecting everything from what you don't want to hear is folly.

And you might know the weather for the days you were there. But that's meaningless for the next days or the same days the next year. You need more information to give someone an meaningful answer.

Rejecting something someone dosnt want to hear is basically promoting ignorance, but at what point does someone get the label conspiracy theorist?

Listening to experts for predictions might be ok but who gets to decide who and which experts to listen to?

At some point
That's why it's important to be able to gather as much information as you can and make the best bigger picture of it as you can.
One of the ways to do that is to
I can speak for what I hear from live people, read 1st hand info and witness myself,
Abvisiosly, using the scientist coumo used wont get us into the right place.





Is it justified if it’ll save hundreds of thousands of lives?

Shutting someone down because someone thinks the other is wrong doesn't create any good but to the contrary, it promotes real conspiracy theories.
Who gets to  decide what's right and his actions are going to be saving lives? Maybe it's the other person? They are thinking the same but from the opposite perspective.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 25, 2020, 11:04:47 PM

Shutting someone down because someone thinks the other is wrong doesn't create any good but to the contrary, it promotes real conspiracy theories.
Who gets to  decide what's right and his actions are going to be saving lives? Maybe it's the other person? They are thinking the same but from the opposite perspective.
I asked if it actually would, not if you think it would. Is free speech more important than life itself?

Censorship works fine in China and other countries. I don’t think conspiracy theories are rampant there. Who said they’re wrong? :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 25, 2020, 11:08:41 PM
I asked if it actually would, not if you think it would. Is free speech more important than life itself?

Censorship works fine in China and other countries. I don’t think conspiracy theories are rampant there. Who said they’re wrong? :)
One of the concepts behind the importance of free speech is that it is what is most likely to lead to the most reasonable outcome. Are those who compared it to the flu worse than those who made it predicted millions of US deaths?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 25, 2020, 11:11:01 PM
I asked if it actually would, not if you think it would. Is free speech more important than life itself?

Censorship works fine in China and other countries. I don’t think conspiracy theories are rampant there. Who said they’re wrong? :)
Some would argue barring free speech causes more harm then allowing free speech.

It dosnt take to much to speculate what would've been if there was free speech in Germany or  currently in China with the Uyghurs.

The list can be as long as you want it to be.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yelped on May 25, 2020, 11:15:02 PM
Since when do elephants have patience?
Since I woke up every few minutes this night anxious that I won't miss my 7:30 porch minyan. See @avromie7? The virus causes young people to be anxious.  :P
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 25, 2020, 11:20:12 PM
Since I woke up every few minutes this night anxious that I won't miss my 7:30 porch minyan. See @avromie7? The virus causes young people to be anxious. 
And i was always anxious that it would take way to long for there to be a minyan
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: simple26 on May 25, 2020, 11:32:19 PM
That's why it's important to be able to gather as much information as you can and make the best bigger picture of it as you can. I try doing that in my roundups.
Rejecting everything from what you don't want to hear is folly.

And you might know the weather for the days you were there. But that's meaningless for the next days or the same days the next year. You need more information to give someone an meaningful answer.
Yup that’s what journalism is supposed to be @Dan maybe open a  newsite we need you as editor in chief wish we have more of that type  coverage these days hence the thread you made
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: KSMH on May 26, 2020, 12:14:08 AM
Yup that’s what journalism is supposed to be @Dan maybe open a  newsite we need you as editor in chief wish we have more of that type  coverage these days hence the thread you made
Read today's roundup.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: skyguy918 on May 26, 2020, 08:18:07 AM
Is it justified if it’ll save hundreds of thousands of lives?

ETA: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/what-can-coronavirus-tell-us-about-conspiracy-theories/610894/
The QAnon stuff has always been wild, but maybe even more so with CoViD. This video has some interesting bits of interviews with some of these nutjobs:
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on May 26, 2020, 08:36:34 AM
One of the concepts behind the importance of free speech is that it is what is most likely to lead to the most reasonable outcome. Are those who compared it to the flu worse than those who made it predicted millions of US deaths?
WOW you know who you sound like? The high predictions were if we did absolutely nothing. No sane person expected we would do nothing. It took some of the nutcases a month or so to finally realize that.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on May 26, 2020, 10:22:19 AM
Some would argue barring free speech causes more harm then allowing free speech.

It dosnt take to much to speculate what would've been if there was free speech in Germany or  currently in China with the Uyghurs.

The list can be as long as you want it to be.

One of the concepts behind the importance of free speech is that it is what is most likely to lead to the most reasonable outcome. Are those who compared it to the flu worse than those who made it predicted millions of US deaths?
:)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2020, 11:31:22 AM
WOW you know who you sound like? The high predictions were if we did absolutely nothing. No sane person expected we would do nothing. It took some of the nutcases a month or so to finally realize that.
Some of the predictions with SD were also WAY off. Also, while Sweden is showing that SD was needed, it is also not reaching anywhere close to the magnitude of those forecasts.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on May 26, 2020, 12:28:48 PM
Some of the predictions with SD were also WAY off. Also, while Sweden is showing that SD was needed, it is also not reaching anywhere close to the magnitude of those forecasts.

Sweden also had less than 10% of people with anti-bodies. If you extrapolate their numbers per million, and consider they are nowhere near done yet, I don't think the "millions" is so ridiculously far-fetched. Consider that with all our restrictions, our first wave reached 100k (and counting). If you look at the magnitude of second waves in comparison to first waves, I don't think 1 million US deaths is completely out of the question before we're all done. I don't think it will happen, because science is not what it was by other pandemics, but I don't think it can be dismissed as absurd, either.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on May 26, 2020, 12:47:39 PM
Some of the predictions with SD were also WAY off.
The problem is there were 100's if not K's of different predictions. Many of the main ones were in the ballpark if not spot on. It is hard to make a prediction with SD when you don't know what compliance there will be.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
The problem is there were 100's if not K's of different predictions. Many of the main ones were in the ballpark if not spot on. It is hard to make a prediction with SD when you don't know what compliance there will be.
Yes, but why is one which overestimates by many magnitudes better that one which overestimates? Neither one is the truth. When one is censored and one is not that shows bias. The free speech allowing the lows to counteract the highs would mostly balance it out to the mioddle.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on May 26, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
The free speech allowing the lows to counteract the highs would mostly balance it out to the mioddle.
We both know unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2020, 01:10:47 PM
We both know unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
It most definitely does to some extent and more in this situation than tohers.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on May 26, 2020, 01:14:06 PM
It most definitely does to some extent and more in this situation than tohers.
"some extent" = very little.  ;)
Enough OT so you can have the last word.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on May 27, 2020, 09:44:09 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/orthodox-jews-scapegoats-in-coronavirus-crisis-2020-5
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on June 17, 2020, 08:14:01 AM
All these people made zero peeps when the rallies were about BLM.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Mikes@Micro on June 17, 2020, 08:17:22 AM
Again we are in galus. Protesting is one of the least mature things I've heard. Prob even worse than cutting locks on parks.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on June 17, 2020, 08:18:33 AM
Again we are in galus. Protesting is one of the least mature things I've heard. Prob even worse than cutting locks on parks.
Kids are often immature.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: NTorch on June 17, 2020, 09:46:02 AM
Kids are often immature.

And in this case not too bright. How will blocking traffic in Lakewood force the hand of New York's Governor?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on June 17, 2020, 09:50:22 AM
And in this case not too bright. How will blocking traffic in Lakewood force the hand of New York's Governor?
It won't. But it may alleviate some of that pent up restlessness that would normally be released during color war.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Mikes@Micro on June 17, 2020, 10:09:03 AM
Kids are often immature.
The kids coordinated this on their own? I wouldn't be terribly suprised I guess....
 but I mean where are the parents?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: yos9694 on June 17, 2020, 11:43:11 AM
Any looting?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 17, 2020, 11:51:45 AM
All these people made zero peeps when the rallies were about BLM.
You are correct but isn't the opposite true. Many complained about some BLM protesters not wearing masks but not a peep here.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on June 17, 2020, 12:00:26 PM
Again we are in galus. Protesting is one of the least mature things I've heard. Prob even worse than cutting locks on parks.
Binyan yeladim stirah.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: flyingace on June 17, 2020, 12:03:09 PM
Isin't it binyan yeladim stirah?
Right you are! Fixed it. thanks.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: moko on June 17, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
You are correct but isn't the opposite true. Many complained about some BLM protesters not wearing masks but not a peep here.
+100.
Consistency, people, consistency.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Eb228 on June 17, 2020, 01:34:02 PM
You are correct but isn't the opposite true. Many complained about some BLM protesters not wearing masks but not a peep here.

No one cared that they weren't wearing masks, hence no one complained about it.
People complained that the same politicians weren't enforcing wearing masks there, yet enforcing business closures, shul etc. And yes, playgrounds.

Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 17, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Wait they weren't complaining they weren't wearing mask but were complaining politicians weren't enforcing them wearing masks. Got it.  ::)
We are running out of pretzels.  :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on June 17, 2020, 04:52:37 PM
We are running out of pretzels.  :)

Thanks to the lack of MLB games, I think pretzels are in surplus right now.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: avromie7 on June 17, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Wait they weren't complaining they weren't wearing mask but were complaining politicians weren't enforcing them wearing masks. Got it.  ::)
We are running out of pretzels.  :)
Did you really think the people walking around without masks were complaining about protesters not wearing masks because they cared if protesters wear masks? The complaint was always about the double standard.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 17, 2020, 05:00:16 PM
Thanks to the lack of MLB games, I think pretzels are in surplus right now.
Wouldn't that be hotdogs?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 17, 2020, 05:05:15 PM
Did you really think the people walking around without masks were complaining about protesters not wearing masks because they cared if protesters wear masks? The complaint was always about the double standard.
They complained because they wanted to further their own agenda. If those same individuals are not going to complain about these individuals then it is again just hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Ergel on June 17, 2020, 06:15:24 PM
Wouldn't that be hotdogs?
Crackerjacks I think. Has anyone ever eaten a crackerjack not at a baseball game?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Eb228 on June 17, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
No one cared that they weren't wearing masks, hence no one complained about it.
People complained that the same politicians weren't enforcing wearing masks there, yet enforcing business closures, shul etc. And yes, playgrounds.

Wait they weren't complaining they weren't wearing mask but were complaining politicians weren't enforcing them wearing masks. Got it.  ::)
We are running out of pretzels.  :)

Its called they were complaining about the fact that they WERE enforcing it in our places.

And if you really didnt understand that, then you certainly can't claim to be able to judge Trump impartially
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: EliJelly on June 17, 2020, 07:43:33 PM
Its called they were complaining about the fact that they WERE enforcing it in our places.

And if you really didnt understand that, then you certainly can't claim to be able to judge Trump impartially
What do you expect from someone who can't differentiate between criminal store looting and elected officials removing park chains.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 17, 2020, 08:05:30 PM
What do you expect from someone who can't differentiate between criminal store looting and elected officials removing park chains.
That's even worse. Those idiots should know better.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: grodnoking on June 17, 2020, 08:36:51 PM
That's even worse. Those idiots should know better.
If they are idiot's, where do you place their "superiors" who criminalize the kids but encourage the rioters?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 17, 2020, 08:39:43 PM
If they are idiot's, where do you place their "superiors" who criminalize the kids but encourage the rioters?
Anyone that encourages rioters should be put in jail. I seen that posted several times (encouraging rioters) but no one has provided a link. Who are these nutcases that are encouraging rioters?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: avromie7 on June 17, 2020, 10:22:12 PM
They complained because they wanted to further their own agenda. If those same individuals are not going to complain about these individuals then it is again just hypocrisy.
They complained about being discriminated against and this is the evidence.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whYME on June 17, 2020, 10:30:31 PM
Did you really think the people walking around without masks were complaining about protesters not wearing masks because they cared if protesters wear masks? The complaint was always about the double standard.
Exactly.

This is what @CountValentine is pretending not to understand.

Nobody here was complaining about the protesters, (protesters no, rioters and looters yes but that's another distinction he pretends not to see) the complaints were always about the double standard and hypocrisy of the media and politicians.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Mikes@Micro on June 17, 2020, 10:36:47 PM
Exactly.

This is what @CountValentine is pretending not to understand.

Nobody here was complaining about the protesters, (protesters no, rioters and looters yes but that's another distinction he pretends not to see) the complaints were always about the double standard and hypocrisy of the media and politicians.

None at all. Looters are criminals.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: etech0 on June 17, 2020, 10:37:51 PM
Because it's illegal, or for another reason?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: whYME on June 17, 2020, 11:00:54 PM

What I meant was the distinction between people here bashing the rioters/looters vs the protestors
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 18, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Finally they took action against this hate monger!
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-removes-trump-ads-violating-organized-hate-policy-n1231468
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: shapsam on June 19, 2020, 12:18:36 AM
Finally they took action against this hate monger!
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-removes-trump-ads-violating-organized-hate-policy-n1231468
Lol, it was because they showed an ANTIFA symbol when attacking them in their ad. Did Facebook remove the real ANTIFA posts?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on June 19, 2020, 12:57:43 AM
Lol, it was because they showed an ANTIFA symbol when attacking them in their ad. Did Facebook remove the real ANTIFA posts?
What a joke
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 19, 2020, 06:02:47 AM
Facebook wouldn't have removed the post if Trump was polling better. It also may be a warning shot against the Trump admin's proposed new social media liability laws.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 19, 2020, 08:22:38 AM
Lol, it was because they showed an ANTIFA symbol when attacking them in their ad. Did Facebook remove the real ANTIFA posts?
Maybe he should educate himself on what certain things mean like Juneteenth?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: S209 on June 19, 2020, 10:49:17 AM
Maybe he should educate himself on what certain things mean like Juneteenth?
When did you find out what Juneteenth was?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 19, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
When did you find out what Juneteenth was?
Not until a week or so ago since with the systematic racism it was never taught in school.
Now if I had the full power of the government/presidency at my disposal I sure would know about it unless I was living in a cocoon.

I must say the responses so far is what I expected. No need to change my paintings.  :)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on June 19, 2020, 11:24:30 AM
Not until a week or so ago since with the systematic racism it was never taught in school.
Now if I had the full power of the government/presidency at my disposal I sure would know about it unless I was living in a cocoon.

I must say the responses so far is what I expected. No need to change my paintings.  :)

Not to get too involved in political talk... this is what I pulled from Wikipedia (I know, great source).

Quote
Juneteenth (a portmanteau of June and nineteenth;[2] also known as Freedom Day,[3] Jubilee Day,[4] and Liberation Day[5]) is a holiday celebrating the liberation of those who had been held as slaves in the United States. Originally a Texas state holiday, it is now celebrated annually on the 19th of June throughout the United States. Specifically, it commemorates Union army general Gordon Granger announcing federal orders in Galveston, Texas, on June 19, 1865, proclaiming that all people held as slaves in Texas were free.[6] Although the Emancipation Proclamation had officially freed them almost two and a half years earlier, and the American Civil War had largely ended with the defeat of the Confederate States in April, Texas was the most remote of the slave states, with a low presence of Union troops, so enforcement of the proclamation had been slow and inconsistent.[6]

A common misconception is that this day marks the end of slavery in the United States. Although this day marks the emancipation of all slaves in the Confederacy, the institution of slavery was still legal and existed in the Union border states after June 19, 1865.[7][8] Slavery in the United States did not officially end until the ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States on December 6, 1865, which abolished non-penal slavery entirely in all of the U.S. states and territories.[9]

Based on this, I'm not sure why this is being considered for a national holiday.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: CountValentine on June 19, 2020, 01:06:07 PM
Based on this, I'm not sure why this is being considered for a national holiday.
Because of what it represents. Did Columbus really discover America?
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on June 19, 2020, 01:17:48 PM
Because of what it represents. Did Columbus really discover America?

I hear you, but I don't think it represents much more than Texas being a little late to the party or news travelling a little slow 'round those parts. It's literally celebrating an announcement of old news. I agree that what they are saying it represents should be recognized and celebrated, but it should probably be on Dec 6, when the 13th Amendment was ratified.
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: NTorch on June 19, 2020, 02:22:31 PM
I hear you, but I don't think it represents much more than Texas being a little late to the party or news travelling a little slow 'round those parts. It's literally celebrating an announcement of old news. I agree that what they are saying it represents should be recognized and celebrated, but it should probably be on Dec 6, when the 13th Amendment was ratified.

We should be embracing this holiday - its like Pesach Sheni or Shushan Purim, except instead of being one day or one month late, they were a few years late :-)
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: Lurker on June 19, 2020, 03:16:41 PM
We should be embracing this holiday - its like Pesach Sheni or Shushan Purim, except instead of being one day or one month late, they were a few years late :-)

Maybe we should celebrate on Dec. 6th, and then we should all travel to TX on Juneteenth to really chap arein
Title: Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
Post by: YitzyS on June 22, 2020, 02:56:03 PM
https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/06/hands-up-dont-shoot-we-want-summer-camp.html

Quote
Opinion
‘Hands up! Don’t shoot! We want summer camp!' | Opinion

By Star-Ledger Guest Columnist
By Clifford Kulwin

For several hours this week, a large, loud, frenzied protest blocked streets and tied up traffic in one New Jersey town. These days, of course, one assumes it had to do with systemic racism and police brutality and Black Lives Matter.

But Tuesday in Lakewood there was no mention of race at all because this demonstration was about…summer camp.

Hundreds of Jewish youngsters on bikes and scooters clogged the street in Lakewood Tuesday night, all demanding that sleepaway summer camps in New York open this year, according to the Asbury Park Press.

The Haredi, ultraorthodox Jews who make up the majority of Lakewood’s residents march to their own drummer. But even for them, the beat was unusual.

And I’m not talking about “why” the demonstration. They’re kids and I get that. Summer camp is integral to the life of Haredi children. Yes, their summer camps are as segregated and regimented as the private religious schools they attend; boys and girls don’t mix, food is strictly kosher, lots of prayer and study of sacred texts. But these youngsters love the baseball and the swimming and even the color war that makes summer camp special for all kids.

On his Twitter feed, Gustavo Martinez, the Asbury Park Press reporter who wrote the story, posted a fascinating 20-minute video of his stroll through the demonstration and his interaction with many young marchers. On its own, the spectacle of hundreds of Haredi children in their traditional garb demonstrating was astounding and kind of scary. No masks. No social distancing. But what made it positively mind blowing was the form their demonstration took.

Haredi families may not have television sets, or even radios, but someone’s been paying attention to what’s going on in the world. The children shouted “No camp, no peace!” As the Lakewood police accompanied the protest, there were cries of “Hands up! Don’t shoot.”

Somehow, these orthodox youngsters, whose parents strive mightily to shield from the impure and immoral influence of the larger world, who never go to the movies…somehow, in Lakewood on Tuesday, these kids were taking a page from the Black Lives Matter playbook.

“Unwitting assimilation,” UCLA history professor David Myers, a scholar of the Haredi community, calls it. “While there was likely no conscious effort to model the protest after those supporting Black Lives Matter, there was obviously communal awareness of what was going on, and that it was proving effective.”

But BLM was not the only factor having an impact that day. Nor was it the most significant one.

USC law professor Nomi Stolzenberg co-wrote with Myers a book about Kiryas Joel, the Catskill village made up entirely of Satmar Hasidim. She believes that recent decades have seen an expansion of the concept of religious liberty. “More than simply practicing your religion,” she says, it now extends “to anything you believe your religion wants you to do, even if it poses a risk to public health.”

Which is, of course, precisely what the unmasked and nondistanced youngsters on Lakewood’s streets were doing… abetted, I should add, by the parents and teachers who accompanied them, rather creepily sanguine about the whole thing.

In an April Bloomberg Law article, Stolzenberg noted a recent lawsuit by three Southern California churches that “alleges that religion is being unfairly ‘singled out’ and ‘relegated to second-class status’ because religious services are not on the list of essential services exempted from the orders.”

I am a rabbi. Religion is not unimportant to me but… an “essential service?” One that trumps the physical welfare of not only the faithful but all with whom they come in contact, some of whom will doubtless be elderly or infirm?

The young demonstrators’ appropriation of Black Lives Matter rhetoric is an attention grabber. Clearly, the Haredi community is not as insular as one might think.

Their use of that rhetoric draws us to what was truly noteworthy that day. The real route of the protest march was not along the streets of Lakewood, but upon the trail the Christian right has been blazing toward making ever-expanding religious liberty – its version of religious liberty - the civil rights issue of the 21st century.

Clifford Kulwin is Rabbi Emeritus of Temple B’nai Abraham in Livingston.
This piece is dripping with disdain