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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 Discussion Board => Topic started by: Dan on March 23, 2020, 09:10:35 PM

Title: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on March 23, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: CountValentine on March 23, 2020, 09:15:31 PM
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-drug-touted-by-trump-and-musk-has-one-problem-two-grams-can-kill-a-human
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on March 23, 2020, 09:19:53 PM
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-drug-touted-by-trump-and-musk-has-one-problem-two-grams-can-kill-a-human
How much Xanax will kill a human?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: grodnoking on March 23, 2020, 10:15:43 PM
How much Xanax will kill a human?
In clinical studies in rats, the LD50 ó the dose that caused half of the rats to die ó ranged from 331 to 2,171 mg per kilogram of body weight. This suggests that a person would have to take several thousand times the maximum prescribed dose to fatally overdose.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 23, 2020, 11:33:03 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-domestic-passenger-flights-could-virtually-shut-down-voluntarily-or-by-government-order-11585013673
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on March 24, 2020, 12:19:05 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-not-a-coronavirus-role-model-11585005002
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on March 24, 2020, 10:30:27 AM
https://thedispatch.com/p/timeline-the-regulationsand-regulatorsthat
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yef on March 24, 2020, 01:54:45 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/24/andrew-cuomo-supports-loosening-restrictions-to-restart-economy/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hvaces42 on March 24, 2020, 04:27:26 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-symptoms-loss-of-smell-taste-covid-19-anosmia-hyposmia-2020-3
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitz1000 on March 24, 2020, 07:21:44 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-satellite-photos-before-after/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: dealfinder11 on March 25, 2020, 12:00:57 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-approves-plasma-treatment-for-coronavirus-under-certain-circumstances-11585090669
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on March 25, 2020, 12:03:28 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/24/bill-gates-us-missed-its-chance-to-avoid-coronavirus-shutdown.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Luvisrael on March 25, 2020, 12:36:33 AM
https://web.archive.org/web/20200205165652/https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2005/11001/history_and_recent_advances_in_coronavirus.12.aspx
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on March 30, 2020, 05:22:40 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on March 30, 2020, 06:25:03 PM
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/

What are the chances this lady googled "how much fish cleaner will kill my husband"?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ltttc on March 30, 2020, 06:25:38 PM
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/
Trying to clean the environment perhaps  ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on March 31, 2020, 10:27:15 AM
Not sure where to post..
.https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/03/important-guidelines-for-playgroup-tuition-by-bais-din-maysharim-and-bais-havaad-of-lakewood.html#more-235809
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on March 31, 2020, 10:32:57 AM
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/woman-who-ingested-fish-tank-cleaner-was-prolific-donor-to-democratic-causes/

Hopefully they didnít leave too much to the Ds in their wills, then it was a waste of good fish tank cleaner...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on March 31, 2020, 12:05:57 PM
https://goto.walmart.com/c/67880/565706/9383?veh=aff&sourceid=imp_000011112222333344&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.walmart.com%2Fip%2FGeneral-Mills-Reese-s-Puffs-Bats-Cereal-20-7-OZ%2F784151952

https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/foodnews/reese%E2%80%99s-puffs-bats-are-rolling-out-on-shelves-soon-so-pick-up-a-box-for-halloween/ar-AAFNZHe

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/945e9b1d-f599-413a-937e-a9640092e7cd_1.fdd02ea1d7564b0db0528443ad4044cf.jpeg?odnWidth=undefined&odnHeight=undefined&odnBg=ffffff)

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on March 31, 2020, 01:44:32 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lost-at-sea-in-a-pandemic-11585672399
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yammer on March 31, 2020, 02:22:47 PM
U.S. Agency Auctioned Off Small Lots of N95 Masks in February

https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-coronavirus-concern-building-world-wide-u-s-sold-off-n95-masks-11585606957?mod=e2tw
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aradisc on March 31, 2020, 02:38:56 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-restrictions-fevers.html

Interesting and promising, though I do have to wonder if there is a selection bias- whether people who bought a "smart" thermometer are more likely to be wealthy and have an easier time social distancing resulting in better statistics than the population at large.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 05:47:41 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/technology/doctor-zelenko-coronavirus-drugs.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 02, 2020, 07:56:08 PM
https://marker.medium.com/amp/p/c812e1358fe0
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 03, 2020, 02:51:33 AM
Front page CNN #FakeNews
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/99-year-old-charged-new-jersey-coronavirus/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on April 03, 2020, 05:28:09 AM
https://marker.medium.com/amp/p/c812e1358fe0
Fascinating
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on April 03, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
Analysis: Coronavirus - why Israel is the worldís safest country
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278254
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 03, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Fascinating

+1

Nice to see a new angle that offers a logical answers to the question of why thereís still a shortage once hoarders have been satiated.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 05, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/04/asia/taiwan-coronavirus-response-who-intl-hnk/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 12:48:14 AM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/04/asia/taiwan-coronavirus-response-who-intl-hnk/index.html
So their success is being pinned on not listening to the "experts"?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 05, 2020, 12:49:25 AM
So their success is being pinned on not listening to the "experts"?

IDK. I found the political angle interesting.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on April 05, 2020, 12:51:24 AM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/04/asia/taiwan-coronavirus-response-who-intl-hnk/index.html

This can also get filed under "things that will change" when this is all over. I think we'll see a push for both an independent US based monitor for global health issues, as well as a readiness team with stockpiles of supplies and plans of action.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Chapshnell on April 05, 2020, 01:18:04 AM
North Korea: https://news.yahoo.com/north-koreas-official-coronavirus-count-172000898.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on April 05, 2020, 05:47:21 AM
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/journalism-professors-fox-news-coronavirus_n_5e85c455c5b60bbd734fc9b7
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/national-stockpile-website-kushner_n_5e876dbfc5b609ebfff09faf

https://theconversation.com/why-wear-face-masks-in-public-heres-what-the-research-shows-135623

Older ones I didn't get around to posting sooner:
https://www.wired.com/story/an-old-malaria-drug-may-fight-covid-19-and-silicon-valleys-into-it/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-coronavirus-chinese-virus-photograph-racism_n_5e73eaa4c5b6f5b7c54130a5
^Rather damning. Oh, and here's this:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-chinese-food-racist_n_5e73acd0c5b63c3b648c6e84

https://www.wired.com/story/trumps-coronavirus-press-event-was-even-worse-than-it-looked/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 05, 2020, 07:48:51 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278322

No one can leave there homes on Seder Night? I guess they really want to replicate ליל יציאת מצרים
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278322

No one can leave there homes on Seder Night? I guess they really want to replicate ליל יציאת מצרים
Well there is a death plague going around.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2020, 08:57:55 PM
40+ articles for y'all...
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-4-5-20-shifting-origin-story-billionaires-good-plague-wild-animals-trapped-away-home-chicken-soup-soul/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ual902 on April 05, 2020, 09:00:12 PM
Honeymooners Stranded in the Maldives During Coronavirus Pandemic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189559/Newlyweds-honeymoon-stuck-Maldives-coronavirus-forced-airports-shutdown.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2020, 09:38:08 PM
Honeymooners Stranded in the Maldives During Coronavirus Pandemic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189559/Newlyweds-honeymoon-stuck-Maldives-coronavirus-forced-airports-shutdown.html
Repost :)

40+ articles for y'all...
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-4-5-20-shifting-origin-story-billionaires-good-plague-wild-animals-trapped-away-home-chicken-soup-soul/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 06, 2020, 12:43:24 AM
Well there is a death plague going around.
Well did you see the bal haturem posted ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 11:16:45 AM
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/how-sick-will-coronavirus-make-you-answer-may-be-your-genes
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on April 06, 2020, 06:46:44 PM
(I haven't read the previous article.)

https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
(I haven't read the previous article.)

https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/
The concept of the biggest danger of COVID being hyper immune response has been mentioned here before. It was mentioned as a reason not to use NSAIDs like ibuprophen. The concept also seems to be borne out by this:
ppl with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus aren't immune deficient, in fact just the opposite.
They only become immune deficient (or technically immune-modulated) by the hydroxychloroquine drug- which is now being advocated for treatment. Theoretically that makes everyone treated for it with corona "immune deficient"
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hvaces42 on April 07, 2020, 02:45:08 PM
About Michael Goldsmith
https://forward.com/news/national/443333/orthodox-family-fallen-through-cracks-in-fight-to-get-experimental-drug/?gamp&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Main&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on April 07, 2020, 02:54:12 PM
About Michael Goldsmith
https://forward.com/news/national/443333/orthodox-family-fallen-through-cracks-in-fight-to-get-experimental-drug/?gamp&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Main&__twitter_impression=true

I signed this as #594 on Motzei Shabbos. B'h they are up to 26,000, but can use as many as possible

https://www.change.org/p/donald-j-trump-grant-access-to-experimental-drug-to-save-dad-and-others-from-covid-19
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 07, 2020, 03:00:47 PM
I signed this as #594 on Motzei Shabbos. B'h they are up to 26,000, but can use as many as possible

https://www.change.org/p/donald-j-trump-grant-access-to-experimental-drug-to-save-dad-and-others-from-covid-19
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-4-5-20-shifting-origin-story-billionaires-good-plague-wild-animals-trapped-away-home-chicken-soup-soul/#Michael_Goldsmiths_Fight_For_Remdesivir_Is_Over_But_Others_May_Be_Saved_By_The_Fight

:(
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2020, 09:55:34 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/nyc-doctor-says-coronavirus-ventilator-settings-are-too-high/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2020, 10:00:26 AM
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/609577/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on April 12, 2020, 03:24:35 PM
https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-777-removed-seating/amp/

I didn't know they could make such changes to planes so quickly.....
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on April 12, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/made-us-smile/ohio-man-uses-his-companys-bucket-truck-to-visit-mom-quarantined-on-3rd-floor-of-nursing-home
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joel on April 12, 2020, 11:51:23 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1848759/yeshivas-coronavirus-aryeh-deri-setting-up-the-1st-coronavirus-yeshivah-in-the-world-keter-corona-torah.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 13, 2020, 12:55:56 AM
Man is this depressing
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on April 13, 2020, 07:48:03 AM
New faster and cheaper testing
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278639
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joel on April 13, 2020, 08:44:55 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-delta-weigh-selling-miles-early-to-raise-cash-in-coronavirus-crisis-11586779535?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: CountValentine on April 13, 2020, 08:47:42 AM
Now we know what happened to all the PPE.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israels-not-so-secret-weapon-in-coronavirus-fight-the-spies-of-mossad/ar-BB12wwnH?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on April 13, 2020, 09:20:06 AM
Now we know what happened to all the PPE.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israels-not-so-secret-weapon-in-coronavirus-fight-the-spies-of-mossad/ar-BB12wwnH?ocid=spartanntp
Lol
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 13, 2020, 01:46:51 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-delta-weigh-selling-miles-early-to-raise-cash-in-coronavirus-crisis-11586779535?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 13, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-delta-weigh-selling-miles-early-to-raise-cash-in-coronavirus-crisis-11586779535?mod=mhp

The banks have money for this now, but will need a bailout later?

Also, if the economy falls into a recession and people wonít spend, what happens to the miles? I would think the banks have to use them within a contracted timeframe.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: good sam on April 13, 2020, 02:22:45 PM
BREAKING: Man phones brother, discuss third brother stricken with Covid-19

(whoa if true)

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1849194/admorim-of-satmar-have-conversation-regarding-family-members-critical-from-covid-19.html

Really? Are we supposed to cheer?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on April 13, 2020, 02:26:11 PM
BREAKING: Man phones brother, discuss third brother stricken with Covid-19

(whoa if true)

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1849194/admorim-of-satmar-have-conversation-regarding-family-members-critical-from-covid-19.html

Really? Are we supposed to cheer?

If it means a little less animosity in this world? Something positive coming out of an all around horrible situation? Sure.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yochiek93 on April 13, 2020, 02:28:15 PM
If it means a little less animosity in this world? Something positive coming out of an all around horrible situation? Sure.
very true but does this really have to be headlines?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on April 13, 2020, 02:34:39 PM
very true but does this really have to be headlines?

Honestly, yes. Let people be inspired to reach out to others they haven't spoken to in 20 years. Let them see something positive instead of another "BDE" or "The World Has Anti-Semites" post.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzf on April 13, 2020, 02:36:57 PM
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/10/21216484/google-apple-coronavirus-contract-tracing-bluetooth-location-tracking-data-app (https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/10/21216484/google-apple-coronavirus-contract-tracing-bluetooth-location-tracking-data-app)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: am32 on April 13, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
No article yet but saw today that El Al is sending cargo planes of PPE to US cities (first one yesterday to Detroit) that was obtained from China.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 13, 2020, 02:58:07 PM
Honestly, yes. Let people be inspired to reach out to others they haven't spoken to in 20 years. Let them see something positive instead of another "BDE" or "The World Has Anti-Semites" post.

Itís a little sad that it has to come to this. The fact that such animosity can exist half a century after the holocaust tells me that Coronavirus is just another exceptional time and soon enough weíll get back to business as usual.

We need to say ďBDEĒ (I mean that figuratively of course) to humanity collectively.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 13, 2020, 03:56:57 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/virginia-pastor-who-held-packed-church-service-dies-of-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 13, 2020, 04:27:56 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/virginia-pastor-who-held-packed-church-service-dies-of-coronavirus/

Sad 😢
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: CountValentine on April 13, 2020, 04:41:03 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/virginia-pastor-who-held-packed-church-service-dies-of-coronavirus/
Sad 😢
Just no words for this mindset. We can only pray for them.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 13, 2020, 10:07:33 PM
https://reason.com/2020/04/12/official-covid-19-numbers-represent-just-6-of-total-infections-a-new-analysis-suggests/?itm_source=parsely-api
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Chapshnell on April 13, 2020, 11:02:44 PM
Rats are going hungry

https://news.yahoo.com/starving-angry-cannibalistic-americas-rats-083044613.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 14, 2020, 10:44:36 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on April 16, 2020, 09:55:56 PM
Zoom Shivas and Prayer Hotlines: Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Traditions During the Pandemic https://nyti.ms/2KbFGcy NY Times
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 17, 2020, 05:45:50 PM
https://www.newsweek.com/man-who-bought-10000-worth-toilet-paper-hand-sanitizer-denied-refund-1498343?amp=1
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 19, 2020, 01:01:37 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on April 19, 2020, 02:07:48 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248
Uh oh.. Chinaís 14% reinfection rate doesnít sound so crazy now after all..
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 19, 2020, 02:22:03 AM
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-18/do-testicles-make-men-more-vulnerable-to-coronavirus
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 19, 2020, 09:43:03 AM
https://m.calcalist.co.il/Article.aspx?guid=3808961

Hebrew article about the market of flying נפטרים to EY.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on April 19, 2020, 10:30:58 AM
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-18/do-testicles-make-men-more-vulnerable-to-coronavirus (https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-18/do-testicles-make-men-more-vulnerable-to-coronavirus)
Fascinating. This would turn COVID-19 also into an STD which could explain why it is different from SARS and MERS in transmission rate.  Sure hope they investigate this theory quickly.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 19, 2020, 10:33:28 AM
Fascinating. This would turn COVID-19 also into an STD
How so? There is no discussion of transmission.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on April 19, 2020, 11:37:14 AM
How so? There is no discussion of transmission.
Very preliminary theory and I am not an MD. 

1.  COVID-19 "utilizes ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) as a cellular entry receptor" by binding to it.
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

2.  "It is mainly expressed in vascular endothelial cells, the renal tubular epithelium, and in Leydig cells in the testes.15,16 PCR analysis revealed that ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) is also expressed in the lung, kidney, and gastrointestinal tract, tissues shown to harbor SARS-CoV."
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

3.  "The results indicate that ACE2 highly expresses in renal tubular cells, Leydig cells and cells in seminiferous ducts in testis. Therefore, virus might directly bind to such ACE2 positive cells and damage the kidney and testicular tissue of patients."
Quote from https://www.researchgate.net/publication (http://)/339243337_ACE2_Expression_in_Kidney_and_Testis_May_Cause_Kidney_and_Testis_Damage_After_2019-nCoV_Infection

4.  "The seminiferous tubules are the site of the germination, maturation, and transportation of the sperm cells within the male testes."
quote from https://www.innerbody.com/anatomy/male-reproductive/seminiferous-tubules (http://)

This has, obviously, larger implications if true.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 19, 2020, 11:48:36 AM
Very preliminary theory and I am not an MD. 

1.  COVID-19 "utilizes ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) as a cellular entry receptor" by binding to it.
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

2.  "It is mainly expressed in vascular endothelial cells, the renal tubular epithelium, and in Leydig cells in the testes.15,16 PCR analysis revealed that ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) is also expressed in the lung, kidney, and gastrointestinal tract, tissues shown to harbor SARS-CoV."
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

3.  "The results indicate that ACE2 highly expresses in renal tubular cells, Leydig cells and cells in seminiferous ducts in testis. Therefore, virus might directly bind to such ACE2 positive cells and damage the kidney and testicular tissue of patients."
Quote from https://www.researchgate.net/publication (http://)/339243337_ACE2_Expression_in_Kidney_and_Testis_May_Cause_Kidney_and_Testis_Damage_After_2019-nCoV_Infection

4.  "The seminiferous tubules are the site of the germination, maturation, and transportation of the sperm cells within the male testes."
quote from https://www.innerbody.com/anatomy/male-reproductive/seminiferous-tubules (http://)

This has, obviously, larger implications if true.
But can they infect the female?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on April 19, 2020, 11:54:51 AM
Can this explain why kids are less affected?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 11:58:36 AM
Can this explain why kids are less affected?

The few instances that I heard of people still testing positive long after symptoms were over, were young men. I wonder if that is connected
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on April 19, 2020, 12:19:09 PM
Very preliminary theory and I am not an MD. 

1.  COVID-19 "utilizes ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) as a cellular entry receptor" by binding to it.
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

2.  "It is mainly expressed in vascular endothelial cells, the renal tubular epithelium, and in Leydig cells in the testes.15,16 PCR analysis revealed that ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) is also expressed in the lung, kidney, and gastrointestinal tract, tissues shown to harbor SARS-CoV."
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

3.  "The results indicate that ACE2 highly expresses in renal tubular cells, Leydig cells and cells in seminiferous ducts in testis. Therefore, virus might directly bind to such ACE2 positive cells and damage the kidney and testicular tissue of patients."
Quote from https://www.researchgate.net/publication (http://)/339243337_ACE2_Expression_in_Kidney_and_Testis_May_Cause_Kidney_and_Testis_Damage_After_2019-nCoV_Infection

4.  "The seminiferous tubules are the site of the germination, maturation, and transportation of the sperm cells within the male testes."
quote from https://www.innerbody.com/anatomy/male-reproductive/seminiferous-tubules (http://)

This has, obviously, larger implications if true.
Now I understand why nursing homes are an ďoptimal breeding groundĒ for the virus ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on April 19, 2020, 12:35:30 PM
But can they infect the female?
I haven't put much time into researching this.  Once I read that the male organ has ACE-2 receptors, I started looking into articles to answer that question.  I got as far as the sequence above.  It seems logical, but I haven't seen any studies or even hints to that yet. 

Can this explain why kids are less affected?
Interesting, but remember, this is not the main way of transmission.
Now I understand why nursing homes are an ďoptimal breeding groundĒ for the virus ;)
Hah! Same as above.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on April 19, 2020, 12:38:42 PM
Hah! Same as above.

No, I was serious. Iím not going to post a link but GIYF
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on April 19, 2020, 01:20:46 PM
No, I was serious. Iím not going to post a link but GIYF
Please. One main article that claims numbers which are less than 5% of involved residents and that doesn't even fall into the category of intimacy about which we are talking.  Cute possibility, but far from reality of a main transmission variable.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ah giten on April 19, 2020, 03:33:38 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-52306868
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ual902 on April 19, 2020, 07:46:19 PM

The Sad Reason For Gulfstream Charter Flights To Israel


https://onemileatatime.com/gulfstream-charter-flights-israel/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=One%20Mile%20at%20a%20Time&utm_content=The%20Sad%20Reason%20For%20Gulfstream%20Charter%20Flights%20To%20Israel
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yungermanchik on April 19, 2020, 07:49:35 PM
The Sad Reason For Gulfstream Charter Flights To Israel


https://onemileatatime.com/gulfstream-charter-flights-israel/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=One%20Mile%20at%20a%20Time&utm_content=The%20Sad%20Reason%20For%20Gulfstream%20Charter%20Flights%20To%20Israel
the full text of the article:

The Sad Reason For Gulfstream Charter Flights To Israel
APRIL 19, 2020 BY BEN (LUCKY) 0
TRAVEL
Weíre seeing all kinds of exceptional flights being operated at the moment, in light of circumstances. However, this has to be one of the more somber reasons for a charter flightÖ

Let me start by saying that Iím kind of piecing together the details of this best I can, based on a tip from a reader, who asked to remain anonymous.

In this post:
Gulfstream flying from East Farmdale to Tel Aviv
Why is this flight operating?
How much do charter flights cost?
Bottom line
Gulfstream flying from East Farmdale to Tel Aviv
Talon Air is a private jet charter company, and in the past several weeks theyíve operated at least one weekly flight as follows:

From Republic Airport in East Farmingdale, New York, to Tel Aviv, Israel
From Tel Aviv, Israel, to Marseille, France
From Marseille, France, to East Farmingdale, New York

Theyíve been using a Gulfstream for these flights ó the plane flies from New York to Tel Aviv, stops for a couple of hours, and then continues to Marseille. Then the plane spends the night there, before returning to New York the following day.

At a minimum, this ďtripĒ has operated on April 5, April 12, and now a flight is in the air as I write this, with the flight number Talon Air 967 (TFF967).

Why is this flight operating?
It would appear that these charter flights are transporting the deceased to Israel. Many Jews consider it an honor to be buried in Israel. Generally remains would be shipped on United Airlines, as they continue to fly from Newark to Tel Aviv.


However, as of March 25, 2020, United Airlines suspended all casketed funeral shipments through their ďTrustUAĒ program. Therefore charter flights are being organized in order to transport those who have passed.

A chartered plane for Niftarim is leaving for Eretz Yisroel on Sunday. Contact TLS for details.

ó The Lakewood Scoop (@LakewoodScoop) April 17, 2020

My understanding is that the plane refuels and then continues to Marseille so the crew can spend the night there. Israel isnít allowing in foreigners at the moment. I believe airline crews are excluded, though perhaps charter crews arenít included among those.

How much do charter flights cost?
I respect and applaud those who are willing to spend the money to bury their loves ones in a way that they find appropriate. For those wondering, I do imagine this is quite expensive. Based on doing some Googling, a Gulfstream charter usually costs over $8,000 per hour.

The plane is flying roundtrip to Israel, so itís flying for well over 20 hours. Based on that, I would guess that one of these charters must cost somewhere around $150,000 to $200,000.

Furthermore, Gulfstream aircraft have pretty small cargo holds, so I wonder about the overall capacity between the cargo hol dand the cabin. Iím not sure how many ways that charter cost is being split, but this canít be cheap, because the capacity canít be high.

Bottom line
Talon Air is operating charter flights from Republic Airport to Israel at least once a week, with a stop in Marseille on the way back, where the plane spends one night. With United having suspended casketed funeral shipments, this seems to be the only way for many to bury their loved ones the way they want.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: JuryDuty on April 19, 2020, 08:06:44 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/news/scenic-nyc-flyover/

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Luvisrael on April 19, 2020, 10:17:53 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-coronavirus-beach-pennsylvania-murder-suspect
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on April 19, 2020, 10:37:47 PM
Ouch. Neiman Marcus, JC Penney and 24 Hr Fitness all considering bankruptcy.....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-neimanmarcus-bankruptcy-exclusive-idUSKBN2210CW

https://www.businessinsider.com/experts-say-several-retailers-to-consider-bankruptcy-amid-coronavirus-2020-4

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/18/24-hour-fitness-weighs-bankruptcy-amid-coronavirus-pandemic.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on April 20, 2020, 08:50:32 AM
SA Airways to lay off its entire staff; looking to sell assets.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-18/south-african-airways-nears-collapse-with-plan-to-fire-workforce
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on April 20, 2020, 05:31:21 PM

Where did the airlines park their airplanes? // WOW!!!

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 20, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-16/chile-to-start-controversial-coronavirus-immunity-card-system
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on April 21, 2020, 09:32:57 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html?

Fascinating. I think Hatzalah/ Bikur Cholim in Lakewood has actually been doing a lot of this
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 21, 2020, 10:02:10 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html?

Fascinating. I think Hatzalah/ Bikur Cholim in Lakewood has actually been doing a lot of this

Definitely lends credence to the lab created theory. If I were creating a virus I would design it so victims are totally unaware they are critical until they are about to drop and this seems to fit the bill.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: grodnoking on April 21, 2020, 10:02:53 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html?

Fascinating. I think Hatzalah/ Bikur Cholim in Lakewood has actually been doing a lot of this
Every hatzolah has been using oximeters.

Even DDF has been using them.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on April 21, 2020, 10:08:04 AM
Definitely lends credence to the lab created theory. If I were creating a virus I would design it so victims are totally unaware they are critical until they are about to drop and this seems to fit the bill.
Yes, because scientists have that level of control /s
This isn't a sci-fi movie
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 21, 2020, 10:29:18 AM
This isn't a sci-fi movie
It just feels like one :(
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 21, 2020, 10:44:26 AM
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-18/do-testicles-make-men-more-vulnerable-to-coronavirus
Very preliminary theory and I am not an MD. 

1.  COVID-19 "utilizes ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) as a cellular entry receptor" by binding to it.
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

2.  "It is mainly expressed in vascular endothelial cells, the renal tubular epithelium, and in Leydig cells in the testes.15,16 PCR analysis revealed that ACE-2 (https://www.rndsystems.com/target/ace-2) is also expressed in the lung, kidney, and gastrointestinal tract, tissues shown to harbor SARS-CoV."
Quote taken from https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified (http://)

3.  "The results indicate that ACE2 highly expresses in renal tubular cells, Leydig cells and cells in seminiferous ducts in testis. Therefore, virus might directly bind to such ACE2 positive cells and damage the kidney and testicular tissue of patients."
Quote from https://www.researchgate.net/publication (http://)/339243337_ACE2_Expression_in_Kidney_and_Testis_May_Cause_Kidney_and_Testis_Damage_After_2019-nCoV_Infection

4.  "The seminiferous tubules are the site of the germination, maturation, and transportation of the sperm cells within the male testes."
quote from https://www.innerbody.com/anatomy/male-reproductive/seminiferous-tubules (http://)

This has, obviously, larger implications if true.

What implications can this potentially have on future fertility or potential birth defects for all of those young yeshiva bachurim who are presumed to have had this?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 21, 2020, 10:53:08 AM
Yes, because scientists have that level of control /s
This isn't a sci-fi movie

 My friend, this is how bio weapons design works. This is not the early 20th century where they just take the most virulent strains they can find in the wild, concentrate it, and disperse it. Scientists today have the ability to genetically engineer pathogens to target specific organisms and cell structures in the body. They can customize the attributes of a particular pathogen with relative ease. Targeting a particular lining in the lungs is probably well within the capability of a third world country lab, let alone China.

 iím not convinced that this is a pathogen that escaped a Chinese laboratory, but there are enough indications to put it on the table as a theory, and I think That the fact that this virus shows atypical behavior of usual pneumonia progression is one more pointer in that direction.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 21, 2020, 12:12:07 PM
My friend, this is how bio weapons design works. This is not the early 20th century where they just take the most virulent strains they can find in the wild, concentrate it, and disperse it. Scientists today have the ability to genetically engineer pathogens to target specific organisms and cell structures in the body. They can customize the attributes of a particular pathogen with relative ease. Targeting a particular lining in the lungs is probably well within the capability of a third world country lab, let alone China.

 iím not convinced that this is a pathogen that escaped a Chinese laboratory, but there are enough indications to put it on the table as a theory, and I think That the fact that this virus shows atypical behavior of usual pneumonia progression is one more pointer in that direction.
Far more likely is that the lab was growing and studying coronaviruses found in bats and someone was careless.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 21, 2020, 12:21:05 PM
Far more likely is that the lab was growing and studying coronaviruses found in bats and someone was careless.

Agreed, but nothing is off the table yet.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 21, 2020, 12:25:08 PM
Agreed, but nothing is off the table yet.
Nor will it ever be.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on April 21, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
Nor will it ever be.

Unless they find some sort of ďsmoking gunĒ. Chances of that are rather slim...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 03:05:12 PM
Far more likely is that the lab was growing and studying coronaviruses found in bats and someone was careless.

Occamís Razor
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Nor will it ever be.

The CIA orchestrated 9/11, the soviets killed Kennedy, aliens landed in Rosewell NM in 1947 etc etc
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 21, 2020, 03:32:31 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/de-blasios-social-distancing-tip-line-flooded-with-obscenities
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ah giten on April 21, 2020, 07:06:04 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/de-blasios-social-distancing-tip-line-flooded-with-obscenities
Good for him!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on April 21, 2020, 07:31:06 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/de-blasios-social-distancing-tip-line-flooded-with-obscenities
If he is honestly  looking to stop social gatherings  can just go to central park, domino park, washington st brooklyn and even time square at times, the cops are there anyways they just have to start writing summonses.
No, he thinks a better idea is 770  or BP. 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Chapshnell on April 21, 2020, 07:39:49 PM
If he is honestly  looking to stop social gatherings  can just go to central park, domino park, washington st brooklyn and even time square at times, the cops are there anyways they just have to start writing summonses.
No, he thinks a better idea is 770  or BP.

Deblasio is a clown but what you are saying is unfair. Goyim havent received summonses?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on April 21, 2020, 07:48:51 PM
De Blasio is a clown but what you are saying is unfair. Goyim haven't received summonses?

I did not say only Jews are receiving summonses. I am pointing to the fact that on broadway NOW more summonses can be given then in a basement in BP. I think he cares more for a headline in NY Post then to protect people.

Police are driving around in jewish neighborhoods (BP) at a higher frequency then manhattan per say.

The same goes to LKWD vs. TR.


Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 21, 2020, 09:16:32 PM
Scary
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 22, 2020, 01:56:34 AM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/escape-from-new-york-city-11587477601
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on April 22, 2020, 07:26:56 AM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/escape-from-new-york-city-11587477601 (https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/escape-from-new-york-city-11587477601)
Any chance of someone copying the entire article here?  My usual workaround for these subscription article is not working this time (or maybe doesn't work for the WSJ).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: dealfinder11 on April 22, 2020, 11:41:25 AM
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/coronavirus-has-mutated-into-at-least-30-different-strains-new-study-finds-625333
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moko on April 22, 2020, 12:06:04 PM
Scary
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/
I'm assuming many EMTs and paramedics will not comply. Definitely not hatzalah
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 22, 2020, 12:29:21 PM
Scary
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/
Update
https://nypost.com/2020/04/22/new-york-scraps-do-not-resuscitate-order-during-coronavirus-pandemic/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: dealfinder11 on April 22, 2020, 12:51:34 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-blood-clots/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: shapsam on April 22, 2020, 10:42:41 PM
A group of Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn became experts in online learning before the coronavirus. Now educators are seeking their help.

https://www.businessinsider.com/online-school-learning-teachers-chabad-jewish-nigri-2020-4
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on April 23, 2020, 10:53:40 AM
Quote
Tourist sites in Samaria opened for special needs children
The Samaria Regional Council has coordinated the reopening of eight tourist sites in Samaria for the benefit of special needs children. Head of the Regional Council Yosi Dagan stated that "these children have been in home quarantine for a month and need to go outside for some fresh air."

Under the Council's initiative, four to five families of special needs children will be able to visit the sites together while maintaining the social distancing guidelines still in place.

From Arutz Sheva
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yochiek93 on April 23, 2020, 11:07:04 AM
I'm assuming many EMTs and paramedics will not comply. Definitely not hatzalah
from the start FDNY didn't comply and thankfully this was reversed.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 24, 2020, 12:29:21 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/fans-figured-out-where-to-buy-dr-deborah-birxs-famous-scarves/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on April 24, 2020, 04:05:11 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-warns-against-use-of-chloroquine-outside-of-clinical-trials-11587745979?mod=hp_lead_pos3 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-warns-against-use-of-chloroquine-outside-of-clinical-trials-11587745979?mod=hp_lead_pos3)

This relates to a post (somewhere) by @aygart with a video by Dr. Rich Roberts.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 09:47:45 AM
Didnít see this posted here. 23m read surveying a centralized data project for aggregating COVID-19 clinical patient data.

Sounds like a moonshot to me, but still an interesting read and thorough analysis.



medium article (https://medium.com/Manu.chatterjee/a-manhattan-project-to-fight-covid-19-94ac2d06bbfe)

P.s. medium urls with the @ sign in them can get garbled by the forums.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on April 27, 2020, 11:50:47 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993?mod=hp_lead_pos5 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993?mod=hp_lead_pos5)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 27, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-coronavirus-cases-climbed-private-equity-owned-hospital-faced-closure-11587893400?shareToken=stf3db604ee7024387a0402535135c47e1
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 27, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
https://www.nj.com/togethernj/2020/04/now-landing-at-food-banks-in-nj-15k-pounds-of-donations-from-united-airlines.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on April 27, 2020, 02:17:57 PM
https://www.nj.com/togethernj/2020/04/now-landing-at-food-banks-in-nj-15k-pounds-of-donations-from-united-airlines.html (https://www.nj.com/togethernj/2020/04/now-landing-at-food-banks-in-nj-15k-pounds-of-donations-from-united-airlines.html)
When I saw nj.com and pounds, I thought the end of that sentence was going to be matzoh.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on April 27, 2020, 03:06:59 PM
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/838879361/bitter-taste-for-coffee-shop-owner-as-new-600-jobless-benefit-closed-her-busines
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 27, 2020, 07:04:29 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-coronavirus-cases-climbed-private-equity-owned-hospital-faced-closure-11587893400?shareToken=stf3db604ee7024387a0402535135c47e1

Why do I cringe to read private equity and hospital in the same sentence. Sounds like a deadly combo, literally.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on April 27, 2020, 07:05:09 PM
https://www.nj.com/togethernj/2020/04/now-landing-at-food-banks-in-nj-15k-pounds-of-donations-from-united-airlines.html

Donate it before it spoils and get goodwill?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 28, 2020, 11:31:17 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/n-y-s-out-of-state-taxpayer-money-is-suddenly-up-for-grabs
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 28, 2020, 01:10:07 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/n-y-s-out-of-state-taxpayer-money-is-suddenly-up-for-grabs
wow
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 28, 2020, 01:17:02 PM
Has anybody seen any news on clinical trials studies or the like being done to establish if having the virus causes immunity?
Am I missing something all we hear is we do not now over and over is anything being done to clarify this ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on April 28, 2020, 02:13:59 PM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/a-bargain-with-the-devilbill-comes-due-for-overextended-airbnb-hosts-11588083336
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moko on April 29, 2020, 07:40:42 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/health/coronavirus-hospital-aerosols.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on April 29, 2020, 10:18:10 AM
Has anybody seen any news on clinical trials studies or the like being done to establish if having the virus causes immunity?
Am I missing something all we hear is we do not now over and over is anything being done to clarify this ?
https://elemental.medium.com/can-you-get-the-coronavirus-twice-185e4d05d614
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on April 29, 2020, 10:50:07 AM
https://elemental.medium.com/can-you-get-the-coronavirus-twice-185e4d05d614
thanks was scratching my head for some time now first time I saw putting together overall immunity from the virus with immunity from the vaccine most articles only focus on vaccines
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Chapshnell on April 29, 2020, 08:47:34 PM
OMG

https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/bodies-stored-in-trucks-at-brooklyn-funeral-home-sources/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 09:24:54 PM
What are the chances this lady googled "how much fish cleaner will kill my husband"?

What do I win?

https://disrn.com/news/arizona-woman-who-gave-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 30, 2020, 12:20:15 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on April 30, 2020, 09:20:12 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

Just follow Kyle Bass on Twitter for a daily (or more often) diatribe about the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) and the world playing along with them.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on April 30, 2020, 09:27:51 AM
What do I win?

https://disrn.com/news/arizona-woman-who-gave-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder
Ding ding ding!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on April 30, 2020, 10:29:38 AM
Just follow Kyle Bass on Twitter for a daily (or more often) diatribe about the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) and the world playing along with them.
I thought he should have called it the ChiCom virus.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Chapshnell on April 30, 2020, 11:06:30 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/these-new-yorkers-fleeing-coronavirus-vow-theyll-never-return/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 01, 2020, 01:09:36 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/these-new-yorkers-fleeing-coronavirus-vow-theyll-never-return/
In all seriousness, at time like this I really wish I wasn't living in NYC


And on that note,

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on May 01, 2020, 01:57:52 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/opinions/eye-opening-south-korea-study-on-covid-19-sepkowitz/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Sport on May 01, 2020, 08:34:13 AM
I've been waiting for a study like this, I thought it would reveal our count was higher than reality but seems I had it backwards:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on May 03, 2020, 12:36:58 PM
Thousands of SUVs Parked at Sea off California Because Demand for New Cars Has Plummeted

https://time.com/5830664/cars-cargo-ships/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: CountValentine on May 03, 2020, 12:39:48 PM
Thousands of SUVs Parked at Sea off California Because Demand for New Cars Has Plummeted

https://time.com/5830664/cars-cargo-ships/
So where do I get supply/demand prices?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 03, 2020, 02:10:07 PM
I've been waiting for a study like this, I thought it would reveal our count was higher than reality but seems I had it backwards:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
Well hereís this, if it helps you
https://veltnews.com/cdc-coronavirus-data-cuts-american-death-toll-nearly-in-half/

ETA: Then again, the fact that itís completely made up should prevent you from acting on it
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2020, 02:55:37 PM
Well hereís this, if it helps you
https://veltnews.com/cdc-coronavirus-data-cuts-american-death-toll-nearly-in-half/

ETA: Then again, the fact that itís completely made up should prevent you from acting on it
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

It isn't completely made but is a misinterpretation of the differences between different data sources.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/coronavirus-death-toll-cdc-misinformation
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Sport on May 03, 2020, 03:31:38 PM
Well hereís this, if it helps you
https://veltnews.com/cdc-coronavirus-data-cuts-american-death-toll-nearly-in-half/

ETA: Then again, the fact that itís completely made up should prevent you from acting on it
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
Not sure what you're trying to show me or say, but at thisn point I believe the most reliable way to get as close to an accurate number as possible is to compare historical avg deaths in total during this period of time to 2020s total deaths during similar period and attribute the difference to covid-19.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 03, 2020, 06:35:14 PM
Not sure what you're trying to show me or say, but at thisn point I believe the most reliable way to get as close to an accurate number as possible is to compare historical avg deaths in total during this period of time to 2020s total deaths during similar period and attribute the difference to covid-19.
Yes and that is why my answer to anyone who starts with these skewed number conversations I tell them to ignore ALL virus numbers and just look at deaths. You want to call it something else-go ahead.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moko on May 04, 2020, 08:32:57 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2020/05/03/donald-trump-and-the-fed-could-be-about-to-destroy-the-us-banking-system/amp/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on May 04, 2020, 08:54:40 PM
Here's one from April 15th....
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-15/money-has-no-meaning-anymore
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on May 05, 2020, 11:49:04 AM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/05/05/nurse-tearfully-claims-ny-hospitals-are-murdering-patients-with-complete-medical-mismanagement/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 05, 2020, 03:17:25 PM
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/04/28/ontario-has-recorded-1012-deaths-from-covid-19.html

35 people died because they were denied medical treatment for non corona ailments because the hospitals were preparing for a surge that never hsppened.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 05, 2020, 03:23:04 PM
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/04/28/ontario-has-recorded-1012-deaths-from-covid-19.html

35 people died because they were denied medical treatment for non corona ailments because the hospitals were preparing for a surge that never hsppened.
Neglects to mention their odds of dying even with said procedures
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Baglach on May 05, 2020, 04:41:01 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1857294/the-boyaner-rebbes-bonfire-an-interview-with-mk-menachem-eliezer-moses.html

Only problem is Menachem Eliezer Moses isn't an MK for past 18 months takes FakeNews to a whole new level...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 10:37:22 AM
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/04/28/ontario-has-recorded-1012-deaths-from-covid-19.html

35 people died because they were denied medical treatment for non corona ailments because the hospitals were preparing for a surge that never hsppened.
Not denied, postponed, for non-emergency surgery. Are you aware of how the health care system in Canada works? You wait 6 months for an emergency procedure on a good day.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 11:31:28 AM
https://elemental.medium.com/what-if-covid-19-and-flu-both-flare-up-this-fall-7be70e2c68f2


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-27/vaccine-coalition-sees-potential-to-go-even-faster-in-covid-race
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on May 06, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
Neglects to mention their odds of dying even with said procedures

It's
Quote
based on an analysis of historical data and ďdoes not report on confirmed cases or individuals.Ē

which (if I understood correctly) compares how many of them would have died in normal circumstances to how many of them they expect to die in the current situation.

Not denied, postponed, for non-emergency surgery. Are you aware of how the health care system in Canada works? You wait 6 months for an emergency procedure on a good day.

It's almost as if those advocating extreme measures are as unwilling to acknowledge the cost of their approach as those calling for business as usual.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 12:56:41 PM
It's
which (if I understood correctly) compares how many of them would have died in normal circumstances to how many of them they expect to die in the current situation.

It's almost as if those advocating extreme measures are as unwilling to acknowledge the cost of their approach as those calling for business as usual.
Fair points. Also, my points were fair points. If this study would occur in NY (which it should at some point) Iíd agree that those 35 deaths can be attributed to the lockdown. Iím pretty sure you didnít address my actual points, CMIIW.

Also, ďthoseĒ and ďthoseĒ are not equal. The two sides are not equal. Are anti-vaxxers and vaxxers arguments of equal merit because they both deny the other sideís arguments?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on May 06, 2020, 01:13:00 PM
If this study would occur in NY (which it should at some point) Iíd agree that those 35 deaths can be attributed to the lockdown.

The analysis that they did contrasted Ontario without these delays to Ontario with these delays.

Iím pretty sure you didnít address my actual points, CMIIW.

I'm not sure what points you made that are relevant to this article/discussion. If you'd clarify I'd be happy to respond.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on May 06, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
Also, ďthoseĒ and ďthoseĒ are not equal. The two sides are not equal. Are anti-vaxxers and vaxxers arguments of equal merit because they both deny the other sideís arguments?

I think this goes under commandment #4 (begging the question).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 01:24:04 PM
I think this goes under commandment #4 (begging the question).
ETA: Now weíre really OT again so Iím stopping. We can continue in another thread. I even deleted this post so it doesnít come across as me just trying to get the last word in.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: cholent on May 06, 2020, 01:49:15 PM
By the way, they weren't 35 actual documented deaths. It was a model that assumed there would be 35 deaths in this time period due to pushing off that amount of surgeries.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on May 06, 2020, 02:06:44 PM
I was pointing out the fallacy of polarizing two sides (false dichotomy) and made my point by bringing an example I think you agree with me on. I donít think anyone here believes necessary surgeries should be delayed, even if Ontarioís health department made the (socialist) decision to sacrifice some to save the many.

What you are missing (or ignoring) is that there is a cost in human lives to delaying "non-emergency surgery" (which is the reason they were scheduled in the first place).

If your approach (which I happened to agree with) is based on ignoring evidence that contradicts it, you have no more legitimately in making the argument than an anti-vaxxer (which is a shame because of the damage that does to the good points you have made). This is especially true because you have repeatedly accused those who disagree with you as not caring (enough) about human life.

To be clear, I don't think you were intentionally being dishonest. I was pointing out the natural human tendency to discount information that contradicts our priors. I had hoped that you would recognize what you were doing (and to your credit, you did in the beginning of your post) but then you doubled down.

ETA: typed before you modified your post. Mods, please feel free to split
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 06, 2020, 10:25:09 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-supreme-court-oral-arguments/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 10:26:32 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-supreme-court-oral-arguments/index.html
It wasnít him you can hear a voice from another line
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 07, 2020, 01:13:13 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hijacks-the-body-from-head-to-toe-perplexing-doctors-11588864248
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: lubaby on May 07, 2020, 11:21:07 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/coronavirus-lockdown.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on May 08, 2020, 03:44:53 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-hit-killed-southwest-plane-landed-austin-airport/story?id=70576933
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 10, 2020, 02:07:55 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/politics/toilet-flush-supreme-court-oral-arguments/index.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/toilet-flush-supreme-court-livestream.html

#investigativereporting
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on May 10, 2020, 02:34:17 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Some interesting highlights:

-Llamas, ... more diminutive antibody can access tinier pockets and crevices on spike proteins ó the proteins that allow viruses like the novel coronavirus to break into host cells and infect us
-Sharks have these smaller antibodies, too, but they ďare not a great experimental model, and are a lot less cuddly than llamas,Ē 
-While the treatmentís protection would be immediate, its effects wouldnít be permanent, lasting only a month or two without additional injections.
-Additional studies may also be needed to verify the safety of injecting a llamaís antibodies into human patients.

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 07:13:50 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Some interesting highlights:

-Llamas, ... more diminutive antibody can access tinier pockets and crevices on spike proteins ó the proteins that allow viruses like the novel coronavirus to break into host cells and infect us
-Sharks have these smaller antibodies, too, but they ďare not a great experimental model, and are a lot less cuddly than llamas,Ē 
-While the treatmentís protection would be immediate, its effects wouldnít be permanent, lasting only a month or two without additional injections.
-Additional studies may also be needed to verify the safety of injecting a llamaís antibodies into human patients.

Fascinating. Reminds me of snake bite anti-venom which is harvested from horses (who are bitten by snakes) for injection into human beings. Iím sure there are other instances of such medical treatments.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 10, 2020, 09:47:21 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/some-doctors-pull-back-on-using-ventilators-to-treat-covid-19-11589103001
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on May 10, 2020, 10:31:37 AM
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on May 11, 2020, 12:27:46 AM

https://apnews.com/e08621567fd8758c89b0c5aed5ac5d72?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on May 11, 2020, 12:56:42 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/05/10/feds-announce-first-arrests-in-country-linked-to-ppp-loan-fraud/#3ff6610159de


Mazel tov
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 11, 2020, 02:42:19 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/05/10/feds-announce-first-arrests-in-country-linked-to-ppp-loan-fraud/#3ff6610159de


Mazel tov
Wasnít this weeks ago?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on May 12, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
WOW!  A must read: a thoroughly organized summary and info I haven't heard elsewhere.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them)


Here is the background info on this immunologist and professor:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/about-the-author-professor-erin-bromage (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/about-the-author-professor-erin-bromage)

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: chevron on May 12, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
WOW!  A must read: a thoroughly organized summary and info I haven't heard elsewhere.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them)


Here is the background info on this immunologist and professor:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/about-the-author-professor-erin-bromage (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/about-the-author-professor-erin-bromage)

I have been reading about viral loads for a bit.

But that clearly would explain New York's heavy and high infection rate.

Shsbbat zachor
Megilah
Purim seuda etc

Weddings

Lots of events involved large crowds indoors, close contact, singing etc.

You have subway, lots of elevator use etc etc

And as I said 6 weeks ago, you have the laws of probability.
More and more infections = more and more contact with infected people.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on May 12, 2020, 01:39:32 PM
I have been reading about viral loads for a bit.

But that clearly would explain New York's heavy and high infection rate.

Shsbbat zachor
Megilah
Purim seuda etc

Weddings

Lots of events involved large crowds indoors, close contact, singing etc.

You have subway, lots of elevator use etc etc

And as I said 6 weeks ago, you have the laws of probability.
More and more infections = more and more contact with infected people.
Yes, I, too, have felt that viral load is real.  Look at the average age of the front line health workers who have died of COVID-19 vs the average age of the general public who have succumbed. 

BTW, think Shavuos!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 12, 2020, 02:06:44 PM
WOW!  A must read: a thoroughly organized summary and info I haven't heard elsewhere.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them)


Here is the background info on this immunologist and professor:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/about-the-author-professor-erin-bromage (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/about-the-author-professor-erin-bromage)
Repost
This has been going around. Assuming her facts are correct, this could be useful in considering shul reopening.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?emc=edit_nn_20200511&segment_id=27239&nl=the-morning&user_id=88f9615aece4a03361ff9177b170bbff&regi_id=69563130&te=1&instance_id=18384&campaign_id=9
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 12, 2020, 02:07:52 PM
Yes, I, too, have felt that viral load is real.  Look at the average age of the front line health workers who have died of COVID-19 vs the average age of the general public who have succumbed. 

BTW, think Shavuos!
Iíve heard this theory a bunch of times but do you have data on age of health care workers vs. age of general public?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 12, 2020, 02:49:09 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-5-12-20-distancing-plane-de-blasio-ou-kosher-psa-true-number-deaths-murder-hornets-free-eilat-flights-goodbye-10000-bumps/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on May 12, 2020, 02:50:30 PM
Iíve heard this theory a bunch of times but do you have data on age of health care workers vs. age of general public?
Published data, no, I haven't searched for it.  Read the ages each time you see a DP and make a pattern for yourself.  True, the average age of a health worker is a younger average than the elderly, but we need to compare "apples" with "apples" re ages of deaths.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on May 12, 2020, 02:58:26 PM
Repost
Ok, so?  Now what?  I haven't read that thread in a while.  What am I supposed to do when I see your post telling me this is a repost from a different thread (of which I was unaware)? 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on May 12, 2020, 04:29:01 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-5-12-20-distancing-plane-de-blasio-ou-kosher-psa-true-number-deaths-murder-hornets-free-eilat-flights-goodbye-10000-bumps/
Thanks. Great post. But way too long. I think it would be better if you did it once a week rather than letting it all build up like that
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 12, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Ok, so?  Now what?  I haven't read that thread in a while.  What am I supposed to do when I see your post telling me this is a repost from a different thread (of which I was unaware)?
Delete your post?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 12, 2020, 04:30:49 PM
Thanks. Great post. But way too long. I think it would be better if you did it once a week rather than letting it all build up like that
👆 גם אני מצטרף להנ״ל
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on May 12, 2020, 04:32:46 PM
👆 גם אני מצטרף להנ״ל
I assumed you knew that before you hit post :)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mtrasb on May 13, 2020, 02:03:58 AM
Fascinating article about the corona narrative:

https://shawnvint.com/2020/05/11/speaking-truth-with-love/

I enjoyed the clear and level headed tone that this author expressed.
Assuming everything is true the ramifications are frightening.

As absurd as it sounds it cannot be dismissed.

I would love to hear what people think.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 13, 2020, 11:06:33 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-is-our-new-aclu-11589322149 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-is-our-new-aclu-11589322149?mod=hp_opin_pos_2)

For those who have a paywall, I pasted it for you:

Elon Musk Is Our New ACLU
The most sweeping restrictions on liberty ever seen deserve to be legally scrutinized.

By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.
May 12, 2020 6:22 pm ET

A CEO has obligations to shareholders, among them not to let anybody take anything of value from the company that the taker has no right to take.

That Elon Muskís resistance of Californiaís pandemic shutdown may well be due to fear that his company cannot survive if it doesnít continue pulling in cash from delivering cars merely gives him a material and compelling justification for his defiance. He should protect his companyís right to do business and survive against what he considers unlawful and unjustified prohibitions. He would be derelict not to do so.

From the start of the crisis, the American Civil Liberties Union has advertised on its website: ďThe ACLU will be watching closely to make sure the governmentís response is? scientifically justified and no more intrusive on civil liberties than absolutely necessary.Ē

Its definition of scientifically justified appears to be about as rigorous as the mediaís, which means anything the hive mind has somehow decided requires fashionable conformity. The irony is that the science has been speaking clearly and consistently, but the public and a virtue-signaling media havenít wanted to hear it.

For weeks, a CDC web page, which remains widely quoted by other government and health-care websites, advised, ďIn the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus.Ē

When the lockdowns started, I could write without qualification: ďExperts now agree the virusís spread can be slowed but not contained. It will take its place among mostly seasonal respiratory infections.Ē

Our flatten-the-curve strategy, likewise, was premised scientifically on slowing the virusís spread in line with local hospital capacity. Unthinkable would have been sweeping and indiscriminate bans on economic activity in places not yet touched or barely touched by the virus.

A writer in the Atlantic suggests conservatives favor opening the economy and want the old and ill to take one for the team. My own email indicates dissent from the lockdowns has nothing to do with being a conservative and a lot to do with being a physician or immunologist. By focusing protection on the elderly and vulnerable, we bring closer the day when the elderly and vulnerable wonít need protecting because the epidemic has run out of a critical mass of people to infect.

An unusually sensible writer in the New York Times points out that pandemics in the past have ended not with the virus going awayóthe 1918, 1957 and 1968 strains are still with us. They ended when people decided to accept and adapt to the virusís existence.

Which brings us to Mr. Musk. He is not the only business operator, but perhaps the only one running a public company, who has decided to resist his livelihood being destroyed by infringements on the most basic rights of U.S. citizens: to leave their homes, to engage in trade, to work and receive pay.

We expect Mr. Musk to be grandiose: Let me be the first to be arrested, he tweeted, Patrick Henry-like.

We expect legal plaintiffs of every description to be self-interestedóhis defiance has clearly been accentuated by Michiganís decision to let his competitors reopen their auto plants.

These infringements, it is vaguely but confidently asserted by politicians and their press cheerleaders, are justified by the science. Well, letís test this idea in court.

You will be hard-pressed to find a scientist anywhere who maintains we donít need to learn to live with the virus. Our incoherent lockdowns plainly lacked a scientific rationale for how to reopen when most of the public remains uninfected. An MIT group calculates that the desired benefits in terms of hospitals and the elderly could have been achieved far more cheaply by isolating the vulnerable rather than everybody, and with far less damage to civil liberties.

For some families, sheltering in place now appears to have increased their risk rather than reduced it. For most individuals, the danger was flu-like, which never before led to them being stripped of basic rights. Banning outdoor activities appears to have been absurd overkill. The notion that a vast testing and contact-tracing scheme is plausible and could halt the epidemic, much less is a requisite condition to resume most of our economic freedoms, would likely fall to sixth-grade math. Start with the challenge of identifying millions of asymptomatic carriers among millions of others whose symptoms are due to the common cold or flu.

That politicians took steps out of panic is understandable. That these steps were unjustified by the science that existed then much less now doesnít mean their motives were bad. We can accept, especially in a panic, that the media will eschew complexity in favor of a story of an enemy who must be vanquished.

Our country and our Constitution are finished, however, if the most sweeping, authoritarian and undemocratic restrictions on individual liberty ever contemplated are not subjected to legal challenge and accountability.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: simple26 on May 13, 2020, 11:16:43 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-is-our-new-aclu-11589322149 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-is-our-new-aclu-11589322149?mod=hp_opin_pos_2)

For those who have a paywall, I pasted it for you:

Elon Musk Is Our New ACLU
The most sweeping restrictions on liberty ever seen deserve to be legally scrutinized. I like his new title!

By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.
May 12, 2020 6:22 pm ET

A CEO has obligations to shareholders, among them not to let anybody take anything of value from the company that the taker has no right to take.

That Elon Muskís resistance of Californiaís pandemic shutdown may well be due to fear that his company cannot survive if it doesnít continue pulling in cash from delivering cars merely gives him a material and compelling justification for his defiance. He should protect his companyís right to do business and survive against what he considers unlawful and unjustified prohibitions. He would be derelict not to do so.

From the start of the crisis, the American Civil Liberties Union has advertised on its website: ďThe ACLU will be watching closely to make sure the governmentís response is? scientifically justified and no more intrusive on civil liberties than absolutely necessary.Ē

Its definition of scientifically justified appears to be about as rigorous as the mediaís, which means anything the hive mind has somehow decided requires fashionable conformity. The irony is that the science has been speaking clearly and consistently, but the public and a virtue-signaling media havenít wanted to hear it.

For weeks, a CDC web page, which remains widely quoted by other government and health-care websites, advised, ďIn the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus.Ē

When the lockdowns started, I could write without qualification: ďExperts now agree the virusís spread can be slowed but not contained. It will take its place among mostly seasonal respiratory infections.Ē

Our flatten-the-curve strategy, likewise, was premised scientifically on slowing the virusís spread in line with local hospital capacity. Unthinkable would have been sweeping and indiscriminate bans on economic activity in places not yet touched or barely touched by the virus.

A writer in the Atlantic suggests conservatives favor opening the economy and want the old and ill to take one for the team. My own email indicates dissent from the lockdowns has nothing to do with being a conservative and a lot to do with being a physician or immunologist. By focusing protection on the elderly and vulnerable, we bring closer the day when the elderly and vulnerable wonít need protecting because the epidemic has run out of a critical mass of people to infect.

An unusually sensible writer in the New York Times points out that pandemics in the past have ended not with the virus going awayóthe 1918, 1957 and 1968 strains are still with us. They ended when people decided to accept and adapt to the virusís existence.

Which brings us to Mr. Musk. He is not the only business operator, but perhaps the only one running a public company, who has decided to resist his livelihood being destroyed by infringements on the most basic rights of U.S. citizens: to leave their homes, to engage in trade, to work and receive pay.

We expect Mr. Musk to be grandiose: Let me be the first to be arrested, he tweeted, Patrick Henry-like.

We expect legal plaintiffs of every description to be self-interestedóhis defiance has clearly been accentuated by Michiganís decision to let his competitors reopen their auto plants.

These infringements, it is vaguely but confidently asserted by politicians and their press cheerleaders, are justified by the science. Well, letís test this idea in court.

You will be hard-pressed to find a scientist anywhere who maintains we donít need to learn to live with the virus. Our incoherent lockdowns plainly lacked a scientific rationale for how to reopen when most of the public remains uninfected. An MIT group calculates that the desired benefits in terms of hospitals and the elderly could have been achieved far more cheaply by isolating the vulnerable rather than everybody, and with far less damage to civil liberties.

For some families, sheltering in place now appears to have increased their risk rather than reduced it. For most individuals, the danger was flu-like, which never before led to them being stripped of basic rights. Banning outdoor activities appears to have been absurd overkill. The notion that a vast testing and contact-tracing scheme is plausible and could halt the epidemic, much less is a requisite condition to resume most of our economic freedoms, would likely fall to sixth-grade math. Start with the challenge of identifying millions of asymptomatic carriers among millions of others whose symptoms are due to the common cold or flu.

That politicians took steps out of panic is understandable. That these steps were unjustified by the science that existed then much less now doesnít mean their motives were bad. We can accept, especially in a panic, that the media will eschew complexity in favor of a story of an enemy who must be vanquished.

Our country and our Constitution are finished, however, if the most sweeping, authoritarian and undemocratic restrictions on individual liberty ever contemplated are not subjected to legal challenge and accountability.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 14, 2020, 03:55:24 AM
https://mishpacha.com/corona-crisis-the-day-after/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ari3 on May 15, 2020, 01:39:47 AM
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/497838-nih-begins-studying-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-as-covid-19
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/497838-nih-begins-studying-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-as-covid-19

Will they even have 2000 (hospitalized?) patients to do this study on? Or will they give this regiment to a bunch of mildly-symptomatic (at worst) patients right after they test positive?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 15, 2020, 01:56:48 PM
Will they even have 2000 (hospitalized?) patients to do this study on? Or will they give this regiment to a bunch of mildly-symptomatic (at worst) patients right after they test positive?
הלואי! 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on May 17, 2020, 02:21:50 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 17, 2020, 12:16:23 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-vaccine-frontrunners-emerge-rollouts-weighed-11589707803
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 17, 2020, 12:37:18 PM
Not exactly an article, but worth a mention here:
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114650.msg2254084#msg2254084
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 19, 2020, 07:13:22 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-a-face-mask-protect-you-11589842953 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-a-face-mask-protect-you-11589842953)

Will a Face Mask Protect You?
Maybe a little, but washing your hands and social distancing are far more effective.

By Marc Siegel
May 18, 2020 7:02 pm ET

Should you wear a face mask? Medical authorities have sent confusing messages. Both the U.S. surgeon general and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention exhorted Americans not to wear masks in January and February, then reversed themselves in April. Mask wearing is now mandatory in many workplaces and public spaces, but how much good does it do? The science is inconclusive, but probably not much.

Itís generally understood that surgical and cloth masksóas distinct from N95 masks, designed to filter fine particlesóoffer little or no protection to the wearer. The purpose of the mandates is to protect others by ensuring the covering of the face of anyone who is infected. A study published in Nature Medicine in April looked at 246 people with acute upper respiratory illness and found that wearing a surgical mask did decrease spread of genetic material from respiratory viruses, including coronaviruses. The researchers concluded: ďWe also demonstrated the efficacy of surgical masks to reduce coronavirus detection and viral copies in large respiratory droplets and in aerosols. . . . This has important implications for control of COVID-19, suggesting that surgical face masks could be used by ill people to reduce onward transmission.Ē

Yet another April study, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, revealed that the force of sick patientsí coughs propelled droplets through both surgical masks as well as cloth masks.

What about asymptomatic patients? The CDC based its revised mask recommendation on studies that found asymptomatic spread was far more common than had been thought. But there have been no studies on masksí effectiveness in preventing it. Although the coronavirus is highly contagious, it is much less so than, say, measles, which can linger in the air for two hours after a cough. a sneeze or even speech. By contrast, the Covid-19 virus has not been proved to be aerosolized. Coronaviruses often enter the body through the eyes, and frequent hand and face washing and social distancing is much more effective than masks at preventing that.

Wearing a mask seems harmless, but it could provide a false sense of security, leading people to take fewer precautions. According to the World Health Organization, self-contamination and reuse and or improper disposal of masks can also hinder their effectiveness and turn them into vehicles of spread.

There have even been questions about the effectiveness of N95 masks at protecting medical personnel. Theyíre considered effective at blocking coronavirus particles only when theyíre form fitted and tested to make sure there isnít any leakage. When I worked on a coronavirus ward, I felt much safer because I also wore a plastic face shield, which blocks viral particles from even reaching the mask.

So wear a mask if you must. But vigilant hand-washing and social distancing will protect you much better.

Dr. Siegel is a clinical professor of medicine and medical director of Doctor Radio at NYU Langone Health and a medical correspondent for Fox News.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moish on May 19, 2020, 08:06:34 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-a-face-mask-protect-you-11589842953 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-a-face-mask-protect-you-11589842953)

Will a Face Mask Protect You?
Maybe a little, but washing your hands and social distancing are far more effective.

By Marc Siegel
May 18, 2020 7:02 pm ET

Should you wear a face mask? Medical authorities have sent confusing messages. Both the U.S. surgeon general and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention exhorted Americans not to wear masks in January and February, then reversed themselves in April. Mask wearing is now mandatory in many workplaces and public spaces, but how much good does it do? The science is inconclusive, but probably not much.

Itís generally understood that surgical and cloth masksóas distinct from N95 masks, designed to filter fine particlesóoffer little or no protection to the wearer. The purpose of the mandates is to protect others by ensuring the covering of the face of anyone who is infected. A study published in Nature Medicine in April looked at 246 people with acute upper respiratory illness and found that wearing a surgical mask did decrease spread of genetic material from respiratory viruses, including coronaviruses. The researchers concluded: ďWe also demonstrated the efficacy of surgical masks to reduce coronavirus detection and viral copies in large respiratory droplets and in aerosols. . . . This has important implications for control of COVID-19, suggesting that surgical face masks could be used by ill people to reduce onward transmission.Ē

Yet another April study, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, revealed that the force of sick patientsí coughs propelled droplets through both surgical masks as well as cloth masks.

What about asymptomatic patients? The CDC based its revised mask recommendation on studies that found asymptomatic spread was far more common than had been thought. But there have been no studies on masksí effectiveness in preventing it. Although the coronavirus is highly contagious, it is much less so than, say, measles, which can linger in the air for two hours after a cough. a sneeze or even speech. By contrast, the Covid-19 virus has not been proved to be aerosolized. Coronaviruses often enter the body through the eyes, and frequent hand and face washing and social distancing is much more effective than masks at preventing that.

Wearing a mask seems harmless, but it could provide a false sense of security, leading people to take fewer precautions. According to the World Health Organization, self-contamination and reuse and or improper disposal of masks can also hinder their effectiveness and turn them into vehicles of spread.

There have even been questions about the effectiveness of N95 masks at protecting medical personnel. Theyíre considered effective at blocking coronavirus particles only when theyíre form fitted and tested to make sure there isnít any leakage. When I worked on a coronavirus ward, I felt much safer because I also wore a plastic face shield, which blocks viral particles from even reaching the mask.

So wear a mask if you must. But vigilant hand-washing and social distancing will protect you much better.

Dr. Siegel is a clinical professor of medicine and medical director of Doctor Radio at NYU Langone Health and a medical correspondent for Fox News.
Or wear a properly fitted N95, preferably with a face shield. That's what I do.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2020, 10:15:29 AM
Or wear a properly fitted N95, preferably with a face shield. That's what I do.
Only works if you're clean shaven.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 19, 2020, 10:29:34 AM
Only works if you're clean shaven.

I donít understand how people wear this all day, my cloth bandana mask is uncomfortable to wear for even a few hours.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on May 19, 2020, 10:35:46 AM
I donít understand how people wear this all day, my cloth bandana mask is uncomfortable to wear for even a few hours.
Maybe that's because it is a cloth bandana mask.  The ones with the valves are much easier to use, especially long term, but then we'll get into the whole protection issue.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 19, 2020, 10:40:21 AM
Maybe that's because it is a cloth bandana mask.  The ones with the valves are much easier to use, especially long term, but then we'll get into the whole protection issue.

Iím not talking about breathability, Iím talking about the sensory discomfort of having something pressed against your face like that.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moish on May 19, 2020, 02:25:17 PM
Like everything in life, you get used to it. Though truthfully I dont wear it all day, only when I leave my house.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ari3 on May 19, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
Only works if you're clean shaven.
What do bearded medical professionals do?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2020, 04:12:20 PM
What do bearded medical professionals do?
(https://i.gyazo.com/1e33301887fbcb50cfb7dbccf71e99c2.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/a01ff9b882933e0857ab6ea018668a66.png)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ari3 on May 19, 2020, 04:25:15 PM

I don't think going to the grocery store like that is gonna work
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: justaregularguy on May 19, 2020, 05:23:15 PM
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-reinfections-were-false-positives.html

I think this is very relevant. My mother lost her sense of taste/smell 2 weeks before pesach, was better well before pesach (BH) and just got tested last week and shes the only one in our family(who all had symptoms-except one) who came back positive for COVID. it didnt make sense.


and i realize a similar article was posted here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115871.150) by @ari3
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/amp/Central-Valley-city-declares-itself-a-15275762.php

Sanctuary city for businesses. Thatís a good one.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on May 20, 2020, 05:56:10 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/16/llama-coronavirus-antibodies-study-benefits
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 20, 2020, 08:05:51 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-patients-in-new-cluster-exhibiting-symptoms-differently-than-wuhan

Every part of this is concerning.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 20, 2020, 08:12:37 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-patients-in-new-cluster-exhibiting-symptoms-differently-than-wuhan

Every part of this is concerning.

Between the fact that itís Fox News, data out of China, and lung symptoms that donít sound so different from garden-variety COVID-19, this sounds like fake news.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 20, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
Between the fact that itís Fox News, data out of China, and lung symptoms that donít sound so different from garden-variety COVID-19, this sounds like fake news.

Also concerning  ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 20, 2020, 08:21:23 AM
Between the fact that itís Fox News, data out of China, and lung symptoms that donít sound so different from garden-variety COVID-19, this sounds like fake news.
Isn't Fox's agenda to downplay the virus and open the country? (My info is all secondhand via DDF.)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 20, 2020, 08:40:55 AM
Isn't Fox's agenda to downplay the virus and open the country? (My info is all secondhand via DDF.)

Fox's agenda is to sow as much discord as possible, by gaslighting as many groups as they can. By highlighting extremes on both sides, the divide gets bigger. Another part of their agenda is making China look bad in any way and at any cost. This article plays to both of those things.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Iz on May 20, 2020, 08:47:34 AM
Fox's agenda is to sow as much discord as possible, by gaslighting as many groups as they can. By highlighting extremes on both sides, the divide gets bigger. Another part of their agenda is making China look bad in any way and at any cost. This article plays to both of those things.
Not sure how you know that, but I see what you're saying.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on May 20, 2020, 06:56:11 PM
https://yated.com/our-identity/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 20, 2020, 07:17:32 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-patients-in-new-cluster-exhibiting-symptoms-differently-than-wuhan

Every part of this is concerning.
Between the fact that itís Fox News, data out of China, and lung symptoms that donít sound so different from garden-variety COVID-19, this sounds like fake news.
It is based on this from Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-20/china-sees-signs-new-cluster-carries-virus-longer-than-in-wuhan?srnd=prognosis

Qiu said that doctors have also noticed patients in the northeast cluster seem to have damage mostly in their lungs, whereas patients in Wuhan suffered multi-organ damage across the heart, kidney and gut.

Say what?

Which is an interview with the one who supposedly ran the Chinese response and seems to have acknowledged that they lied about it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 20, 2020, 11:10:35 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doctors-raise-alarm-about-health-effects-of-continued-coronavirus-shutdown
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Luvisrael on May 21, 2020, 01:28:05 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/05/20/coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-surfaces-objects-cdc/5232748002/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on May 21, 2020, 01:37:39 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/05/20/coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-surfaces-objects-cdc/5232748002/
Does this mean Lysol will be back in stock?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on May 21, 2020, 09:30:54 AM
https://matzav.com/flatten-the-curve-not-the-kids/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on May 21, 2020, 09:52:31 AM
https://matzav.com/flatten-the-curve-not-the-kids/
Spot on
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on May 21, 2020, 11:36:36 PM
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/20/858712314/organ-transplants-down-as-stay-at-home-rules-reduce-fatal-traffic-collisions
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 22, 2020, 12:18:45 AM
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/20/858712314/organ-transplants-down-as-stay-at-home-rules-reduce-fatal-traffic-collisions

I wonder if this will unfortunately cause people on the waiting list who normally might have gotten the organ theyíre waiting for to die before it becomes available? That would be really sad.

ETA: OTOH, theyíre getting organs of people dying in car accidents, so I guess it balances out considering those people arenít crashing and dying. Still feels unfortunate for the organ recipients.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 22, 2020, 12:19:56 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/05/20/coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-surfaces-objects-cdc/5232748002/
This is really unbelievable. For anyone who thought the news has anything to do with reality.. this ďscoopĒ has now been picked up by just about every major national outlet. That the CDC ďrecently changed their guidelinesĒ to include this information.. can someone find the cached page and when they changed it? Iím not so internet savvy. But I can confidently say it was in April.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 22, 2020, 12:21:10 AM
I wonder if this will unfortunately cause people on the waiting list who normally might have gotten the organ theyíre waiting for to die before it becomes available? That would be really sad.
So we shouldnít prevent car accident fatalities because then their organs wonít be available for donation, and now there will be more ďlockdown induced deathsĒ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on May 22, 2020, 01:20:41 AM
This is really unbelievable. For anyone who thought the news has anything to do with reality.. this ďscoopĒ has now been picked up by just about every major national outlet. That the CDC ďrecently changed their guidelinesĒ to include this information.. can someone find the cached page and when they changed it? Iím not so internet savvy. But I can confidently say it was in April.
I also thought I had seen this earlier.  The bottom of this page says "last reviewed April 13, 2020", so it must have been around then.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Perhaps it's being resurrected now so that people will feel comfortable about going out into the world again.

Though I don't find it particularly clear or reassuring.  Touching surfaces is "not thought to be the main way the virus spreads"... but it is a minor way?  What does that mean?  Responsible for 1% of infections?  5%?  25%?  Would I be any less sick if I became infected in a non-main way?  What is this based on?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 22, 2020, 01:27:41 AM
I also thought I had seen this earlier.  The bottom of this page says "last reviewed April 13, 2020", so it must have been around then.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Perhaps it's being resurrected now so that people will feel comfortable about going out into the world again.

Though I don't find it particularly clear or reassuring.  Touching surfaces is "not thought to be the main way the virus spreads"... but it is a minor way?  What does that mean?  Responsible for 1% of infections?  5%?  25%?  Would I be any less sick if I became infected in a non-main way?  What is this based on?
Thank you! How nutty is that? The CDC had clearly had this on their website for over a month for crying out loud and every national news source is now trumpeting this like itís major breaking news because some idiot at the Post didnít read the fine print.

Itís the CDCs website, for goodness sake. How hard can it be to research that??

Thatís the media for you.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on May 22, 2020, 07:22:20 AM
So we shouldnít prevent car accident fatalities because then their organs wonít be available for donation, and now there will be more ďlockdown induced deathsĒ?

See my edit, still feels unfortunate for those on organ waiting lists.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on May 22, 2020, 10:49:14 AM
Thank you! How nutty is that? The CDC had clearly had this on their website for over a month for crying out loud and every national news source is now trumpeting this like itís major breaking news because some idiot at the Post didnít read the fine print.

Itís the CDCs website, for goodness sake. How hard can it be to research that??

Thatís the media for you.
This news article says that the CDC did make changes to that site this month (perhaps they didn't update the date of update?) but it sounds like maybe it's just changes in editing and formatting.  And it sounds like the CDC pushed this out.

https://www.pressherald.com/2020/05/22/the-latest-trump-lashes-out-at-scientists-whose-findings-contradict-him/

First article on page is "Ex-FDA commissioner urges nuanced read of CDCís updated guidelines on transmission via surfaces"

It's quoting a CNBC interview, and says, in part:
ďMost of the transfer here is probably from respiratory droplets and sustained human contact with people, but I wouldnít discount the probability that there is some spread through contaminated surfaces,Ē Gottlieb said... 

Gottlieb said he doesnít read the study that informed the CDCís revision as ďdefinitively saying the disease canít be spread through inert surfaces,Ē and he stressed that mass transit, offices and any surface that numerous people touch throughout the day should still be diligently disinfected...."

So that was my question.  Is there a new study that led to the revision?  Or is this just a re-wording of the earlier finding, with a different conclusion?

Earlier:  Covid might occasionally spread via surfaces.  So let's all stay home and sanitize surfaces. 
Now: Covid only occasionally spreads via surfaces.  So let's open up and not worry about surfaces.   
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on May 24, 2020, 05:19:42 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-22/coronavirus-won-t-be-the-death-of-london-new-york-paris
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 25, 2020, 08:15:18 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/25/us/politics/coronavirus-red-blue-states.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on May 25, 2020, 08:34:40 AM
https://matzav.com/cdc-coronavirus-death-rate-likely-just-0-26-twice-as-deadly-as-the-flu/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
https://matzav.com/cdc-coronavirus-death-rate-likely-just-0-26-twice-as-deadly-as-the-flu/
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/280793
.26% death rate

If that's the case, then 28K deaths in NY means nearly 11 million infections!?!? which should mean 50% antibody rates. But that's not what the numbers say?
And 100K deaths in the US means 38 million infections?

And Sweden's 4K deaths should mean 1.5 million infections, so why is there antibody levels in Stockholm only 7%

Something doesn't add up
Besides, matzav source is arutz sheva which doesn't quote a source. Fake news?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on May 25, 2020, 09:58:32 AM
Besides, matzav source is arutz sheva which doesn't quote a source. Fake news?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on May 25, 2020, 10:43:12 AM
20 year old son of YU professor came down with the corona-related disease that's been found to attack children.  Scary.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/opinion/mis-c-coronavirus-children.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 10:11:53 PM
Thanks. Great post. But way too long. I think it would be better if you did it once a week rather than letting it all build up like that
👆 גם אני מצטרף להנ״ל
Got it back down to 2 weeks...
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-5-25-20-super-spreaders-second-wave-immunity-passports-el-al-turkey-worldwide-restrictions-roundup-amare-stoudemire/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on May 25, 2020, 10:45:23 PM
Got it back down to 2 weeks...
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/covid-19-news-roundup-5-25-20-super-spreaders-second-wave-immunity-passports-el-al-turkey-worldwide-restrictions-roundup-amare-stoudemire/

Nice post. You don't ask to check for errors/typos anymore?

3 that jumped at me were affects (effects), second of all (I thought DDMS is to be written in English, not regular english), and the Iberia Peninsula (the Iberian Peninsula).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 10:46:37 PM
Nice post. You don't ask to check for errors/typos anymore?

3 that jumped at me were affects (effects), second of all (I thought DDMS is to be written in English, not regular english), and the Iberia Peninsula (the Iberian Peninsula).
When you have a new baby that goes out the window. Plus my editor has some excuse about 3.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 10:53:28 PM
3 that jumped at me were affects (effects)
Excellent.

(I will not even mention the affect/effect mistake)
How do you know which one to use? Simple, the one you use will be wrong.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 10:53:59 PM
the Iberia Peninsula (the Iberian Peninsula).
With the sleep I'm on, lucky I didn't call it the TAP Peninsula
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on May 25, 2020, 10:55:53 PM
When you have a new baby that goes out the window. Plus my editor has some excuse about 3.

Oh. That new baby felt like it was ages ago. Just look at how some DDF threads devolved since then.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: good sam on May 25, 2020, 10:57:51 PM

This is easy once you get the hang of it (discussed in the grammar thread).

If it's a noun, it's most likely effect. If it's a verb, it's most likely affect.

There are some exceptions, like "to effect change."
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on May 25, 2020, 11:22:13 PM

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/zic0VPASSWBT1G2-9ghUc7-KqbUf2wHFDJjtydWxxE3q6XQLqlVlIEeAO7eJ0YW4QNHq64p1ro2KKBP8Tp9mWGvteUIBc-jbd8R6qdN7wAJyr--MjfOadSndenrQNdH6MMaRRPiZwDZdBj-q8A4q8wSiDvRBsqV9hpg)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on May 25, 2020, 11:34:20 PM
With the sleep I'm on, lucky I didn't call it the TAP Peninsula
Wait until you're dealing with teenagers, then talk to me about sleep.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on May 25, 2020, 11:52:23 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/25/us-city-lockdowns-rat-aggression-lack-food-waste
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 25, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Wait until you're dealing with teenagers, then talk to me about sleep.
Sigh.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on May 26, 2020, 12:05:10 AM
the years are short but the days are long, and the nights are even longer
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on May 26, 2020, 12:17:16 AM
@Dan  Just curious, why wouldn't you link orginal article for DoorDash story?

https://themargins.substack.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage

Time to enter the restaurant buisness?

Maybe good for a Sunday roundup.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 26, 2020, 12:26:54 AM
@Dan  Just curious, why wouldn't you link orginal article for DoorDash story?

Profanity.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: good sam on May 26, 2020, 01:47:51 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/zic0VPASSWBT1G2-9ghUc7-KqbUf2wHFDJjtydWxxE3q6XQLqlVlIEeAO7eJ0YW4QNHq64p1ro2KKBP8Tp9mWGvteUIBc-jbd8R6qdN7wAJyr--MjfOadSndenrQNdH6MMaRRPiZwDZdBj-q8A4q8wSiDvRBsqV9hpg)
A duck why?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 26, 2020, 02:04:10 AM
https://apnews.com/54423b73d8be5fbc2a491bcc60f10285
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on May 26, 2020, 08:57:37 AM
A duck why?
IDK I couldn't find the original version
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 26, 2020, 12:50:25 PM
https://www.facebook.com/TheChristHospitalHealthNetwork/photos/a.10152011291117319/10158135249242319
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on May 26, 2020, 01:14:49 PM
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/study-tells-remarkable-story-about-covid-19-s-deadly-rampage-through-south-african
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 26, 2020, 01:58:31 PM
Not entirely new info, but an interesting read on clots and Covid:

https://apnews.com/b9ff3e24ea6828413aac0f732f07bb8d
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on May 26, 2020, 02:12:20 PM
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/no-major-side-effects-of-hcq-should-be-continued-as-preventive-treatment-for-covid-19-icmr/amp_articleshow/76006748.cms
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on May 26, 2020, 05:36:54 PM
https://www.thelocal.no/20200522/norway-could-have-controlled-infection-without-lockdown-health-chief
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 27, 2020, 12:23:18 AM
As previously explained on DDF:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-warns-may-be-possible-coronavirus-spread-surfaces
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 27, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/we-dont-know-whats-behind-covid-19-racial-disparity/612106/

Once you get past the dumb virtue signaling there are some interesting point to be made there.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on May 27, 2020, 01:27:46 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1265563344053899265
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on May 27, 2020, 01:34:07 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1265563344053899265

Great replies on this thread
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joeymc on May 27, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Profanity.
I'm sure there are other sites that also had the story, for example I saw it on BBC
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joeymc on May 27, 2020, 02:05:55 PM
When you have a new baby that goes out the window. Plus my editor has some excuse about 3.
If you're looking for a proofreader, I have some time nowadays ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 27, 2020, 02:17:44 PM
I'm sure there are other sites that also had the story, for example I saw it on BBC
I linked to another site.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joeymc on May 27, 2020, 02:38:47 PM
I linked to another site.
My bad
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dawie on May 27, 2020, 03:07:23 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/we-dont-know-whats-behind-covid-19-racial-disparity/612106/

Once you get past the dumb virtue signaling there are some interesting point to be made there.
The May 13th Mishpacha had an article from Eytan Kobre spelling this out too
(the online verison doesn;t have it)
Deals with how uneven the virus has been

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 27, 2020, 05:48:59 PM
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/coronavirus-immunity-complicated-180974970/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on May 28, 2020, 12:49:00 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/05/nj-republican-chairman-doug-steinhardt-blasts-murphy-during-visit-to-lakewood-meets-with-business-owners-exclusive-video-photos-dsteinhardtesq-bobsingernj-njgop.html

Quote
Chairman Steinhardt stressed the ludicrousness of being unable to buy a towel at a local mom-and-pop store, but you can buy the same towel at Rite-Aid,
and how the governor appears to believe that you canít catch Covid-19 while standing in line at Walmart, but you can catch it by going to a house of worship.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on May 28, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/05/nj-republican-chairman-doug-steinhardt-blasts-murphy-during-visit-to-lakewood-meets-with-business-owners-exclusive-video-photos-dsteinhardtesq-bobsingernj-njgop.html
Argument 1) Straw man

Argument 2) Straw man

I get that these are appeals to emotion which resonate with people but they undercut the validity of their arguments when these can be answered easily and logically. They have a really good point, so why ruin it?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 28, 2020, 11:22:09 AM
Argument 1) Straw man

Argument 2) Straw man


Is he arguing that Rite Aid should be closed? Should they be prohibited from selling nonessential items even though they are open as a Pharmacy? Should a store selling something totally unnecsary be open because the item can be bought at a store open for a different reason?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on May 28, 2020, 01:34:41 PM
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/coronavirus-grandmother-bud-light_n_5ecf13a0c5b61b971d4e47dc?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000050
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 28, 2020, 02:31:41 PM
https://beforeitsnews.com/strange/2020/03/is-the-coronavirus-a-chinese-chabad-co-production-2475375.html

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursing-homes-assisted-living-facilities-0-6-of-the-u-s-population-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Says 10% of all NJ long term care facility residents have died from Covid? Sounds like a lot.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on May 30, 2020, 10:23:11 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursing-homes-assisted-living-facilities-0-6-of-the-u-s-population-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Says 10% of all NJ long term care facility residents have died from Covid? Sounds like a lot.
I heard such numbers from within the nursing home industry.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on May 31, 2020, 03:10:28 AM
https://boropark24.com/news/bobov-45-rebbe-sent-a-letter-today-to-hatzolah-to-thank-all-the-member-s-for-their-dedicated-work (https://boropark24.com/news/bobov-45-rebbe-sent-a-letter-today-to-hatzolah-to-thank-all-the-member-s-for-their-dedicated-work)

(https://boropark24.com/img/news/1420/1590699495WhatsAppImage2020-05-28at4.56.08PM.jpeg)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on May 31, 2020, 10:13:29 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/northwell-health-probing-use-of-ventilators-for-covid-patients/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on May 31, 2020, 11:00:58 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/northwell-health-probing-use-of-ventilators-for-covid-patients/
Exactly why we wanted to flatten the curve, to learn more about what to do.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on June 03, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/media/amc-theatres-business-coronavirus/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on June 04, 2020, 06:57:21 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/child-abuse-reports-are-falling-and-thats-bad-news-for-children-11591263001?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on June 04, 2020, 10:38:42 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/child-abuse-reports-are-falling-and-thats-bad-news-for-children-11591263001?mod=mhp

Scary stuff. The pandemic-related stress probably exacerbates whatever dysfunction causes this abuse. G-d have mercy 😢
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on June 05, 2020, 07:04:38 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-nursing-home-population-shrunk-roughly-10-this-year-11591315220
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on June 08, 2020, 10:04:07 AM
Survey of epidemiologists asking when they themselves would feel comfortable with various activities in their own personal lives.  Some examples of how many would be likely to do these by this summer:

Send kids to school, camp or day care:  30%
Work in a shared office: 27%
Visit elderly relative in their home: 20%
Travel by airplane: 20%
Attend a wedding or funeral: 17%
Stop routinely wearing a face covering: 7%

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/08/upshot/when-epidemiologists-will-do-everyday-things-coronavirus.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on June 08, 2020, 11:01:42 AM
Survey of epidemiologists asking when they themselves would feel comfortable with various activities in their own personal lives.  Some examples of how many would be likely to do these by this summer:

Send kids to school, camp or day care:  30%
Work in a shared office: 27%
Visit elderly relative in their home: 20%
Travel by airplane: 20%
Attend a wedding or funeral: 17%
Stop routinely wearing a face covering: 7%

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/08/upshot/when-epidemiologists-will-do-everyday-things-coronavirus.html
Is there a similar poll froom early March?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on June 08, 2020, 11:13:59 AM
Is there a similar poll froom early March?

Not that I know of.  They were asked what they would do "...assuming that the pandemic and the public health response to it unfold as they expect."  So they would have had less knowledge to work with back in March, and presumably would give different answers today if there were more certainty re: drugs and vaccines.  The epidemiologists answers about their personal behavior was also related to where they lived and the caseload there, so not necessarily what they would advise as general policy. 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on June 08, 2020, 06:46:52 PM
Not that I know of.  They were asked what they would do "...assuming that the pandemic and the public health response to it unfold as they expect."  So they would have had less knowledge to work with back in March, and presumably would give different answers today if there were more certainty re: drugs and vaccines.  The epidemiologists answers about their personal behavior was also related to where they lived and the caseload there, so not necessarily what they would advise as general policy.
Not to mention their personal risk profiles and tolerance, exposure to others, political leanings, etc. Still, this is a frank view of what they really believe, not what they would advise others to do merely because of a CYA mentality.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on June 09, 2020, 07:58:44 AM
https://anash.org/dont-go-back-to-normal/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on June 09, 2020, 11:08:08 AM
Frum farmer in Maryland who filled the void for flour when the stores had supply chain issues

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/281563
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on June 09, 2020, 05:18:53 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/school-age-children-likely-hit-lightning-die-coronavirus-oxbridge/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on June 10, 2020, 10:20:51 PM
This is where all 2020 articles on things that will kill us all go, right?
https://onezero.medium.com/a-deadly-mosquito-borne-illness-is-brewing-in-the-northeast-d3283c71c6a0
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ari3 on June 11, 2020, 01:04:37 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/school-age-children-likely-hit-lightning-die-coronavirus-oxbridge/
someone needs to show this article to Cuomo so he will be comfortable sending his daughters to camp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on June 11, 2020, 08:29:53 AM
someone needs to show this article to Cuomo so he will be comfortable sending his daughters to camp
They're too old for camp anyways
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yungermanchik on June 11, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
Quote
What complications can arise when the sense of smell is recovering?

Reiter: One potential issue with recovery from a significant loss of sense of smell can be a distortion of smells. All parts of the system may not recover at the same time and to the same degree. Any complex odor isnít going to just trigger a response in one receptor. Itís going to trigger responses in a number of different kinds of receptors. And your brain integrates all that information together to say, ďWell, thatís a rose,Ē or ďthatís chocolate.Ē In some people, if they have a significant loss, some of the receptors may recover, whereas others may not, or some may recover to different degrees. That can lead to distortions of odors so things that previously were pleasant odors may be unpleasant. And in rare cases weíve seen, people can have severe food aversions because they get incomplete recovery of their sense of smell, and it causes such distortion that really leads to appetite problems.

https://www.news.vcu.edu/article/What_does_loss_of_smell_mean_during_COVID19
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joeymc on June 14, 2020, 09:50:59 AM
https://anash.org/bochur-becomes-flight-crew-for-international-rescue/ (https://anash.org/bochur-becomes-flight-crew-for-international-rescue/)

Incredible story!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on June 14, 2020, 12:14:08 PM
https://anash.org/bochur-becomes-flight-crew-for-international-rescue/ (https://anash.org/bochur-becomes-flight-crew-for-international-rescue/)

Incredible story!
Gotta love the yiddishe kop (and heart).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Joeymc on June 14, 2020, 12:22:00 PM
Gotta love the yiddishe kop (and heart).
Oh, you need to get out of Kazakhstan? No problem, we'll just have the plane make a stop to pick you up on the way.

Oh, you don't have a passport so you can't leave the country? No problem, we'll just make you an employee of the airline so you can just get on the plane.

מי כעמך ישראל
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ckmk47 on June 14, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yorks-coronavirus-response-made-the-pandemic-worse-11591908426?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yorks-coronavirus-response-made-the-pandemic-worse-11591908426?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on June 14, 2020, 12:49:46 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yorks-coronavirus-response-made-the-pandemic-worse-11591908426?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-new-yorks-coronavirus-response-made-the-pandemic-worse-11591908426?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1)
Put in the NY administration blunders thread
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mikes@Micro on June 15, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
https://www.earthday.org/activities-that-will-improve-your-mind-body-and-community-during-earth-month-2020/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on June 16, 2020, 01:08:20 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-data-are-in-its-time-for-major-reopening-11592264199?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on June 16, 2020, 01:40:57 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-data-are-in-its-time-for-major-reopening-11592264199?mod=mhp
Very interesting and well written. Great article
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on June 16, 2020, 05:33:18 PM
At least they admit it's insane

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/business/cameo-zoom-appointments/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2020, 07:28:40 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-data-are-in-its-time-for-major-reopening-11592264199?mod=mhp

Most important point IMHO is
Quote
The reason is that shelter-at-home policies donít so much reduce Covid-19 deaths as delay them. Delaying deaths will reduce them if a vaccine or cure is found in time. But we canít be sure that an effective vaccine will be produced and available any time soon.


This point has been made in the past. It is unrealistic to expect 12-18 months of lock down (optimistically speaking about the availability of a vaccine, not to mention that the efficacy of a vaccine in building immunity over actual exposure to the virus is questionable). As such the focus should be on reopening ASAP with reasonable measures and focus on better treatments for the ill.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on June 16, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Most important point IMHO is

This point has been made in the past. It is unrealistic to expect 12-18 months of lock down (optimistically speaking about the availability of a vaccine, not to mention that the efficacy of a vaccine in building immunity over actual exposure to the virus is questionable). As such the focus should be on reopening ASAP with reasonable measures and focus on better treatments for the ill.
This point has been made in the past. Of course it was always about reasonable measures and finding better treatments for the ill. (Not to mention the obvious point of not overwhelming hospitals). Those donít *delay* deaths, they *prevent* them. Case in point is the breakthrough study on the efficacy of dexamethasone released today.

Nobody ever called for 12-18 months of lockdown. Nobody. EVER. Youíre debating against a nonexistent viewpoint.

Of course, some seriously vulnerable people may want to take even more measures than the standard ďreasonableĒ measures generally accepted until there is a vaccine or even better treatment/prevention protocols in place.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on June 22, 2020, 07:21:31 AM
https://apnews.com/3f6a3069cc788ce41f32a42bdf2d6c96
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on June 23, 2020, 04:19:03 PM
https://matzav.com/dr-marc-j-sicklick-m-d-what-has-happened-to-covid-19-a-reason-for-optimism-and-pessimism/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on June 23, 2020, 04:30:09 PM
https://matzav.com/dr-marc-j-sicklick-m-d-what-has-happened-to-covid-19-a-reason-for-optimism-and-pessimism/

Great name for a doctor. A diagnosis and the reason all in one.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on June 25, 2020, 11:14:11 AM
https://cross-currents.com/2020/06/25/should-black-lives-matter-matter/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on June 28, 2020, 03:47:44 PM
https://www.nber.org/papers/w27245.pdf
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on June 28, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/dansdeals-readers-share-like-fly-israel-go-quarantine-hotel/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on June 29, 2020, 05:56:24 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/27/coronavirus-cases-us-trump-politics-masks

Those words are super generic... Highlights:
When the vote was called, it divided on largely racial lines. Black members voted for masks,
in order to prevent more families losing six loved ones. White members voted against masks,
to preserve the fundamental right not to attach a cloth to your face.
[Editor's note: Slight editorializing, anyone?]

Residents of Palm Beach, Florida, erupted in anger against a mandatory mask order,
calling it the ďdevilís lawĒ and an affront to ďGodís breathing systemĒ.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on June 29, 2020, 06:01:31 PM
https://cross-currents.com/2020/06/25/should-black-lives-matter-matter/

Not actually about COVID.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: cmey on June 30, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/coronavirus-cases-versus-fatalities-why-next-6-days-will-be-crucial?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero%29
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 01, 2020, 10:38:40 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-hospital-covid-19-leader-this-surge-has-moved-to-more-of-an-under-50-population

Interesting points:
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 02:14:31 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-hospital-covid-19-leader-this-surge-has-moved-to-more-of-an-under-50-population

Interesting points:
  • The virus hasn't changed, but out behaviors have.
  • Hospitalizations are increasing rapidly in TX, and the people being admitted are much younger.
Donít you know that itís misleading to suggest on DDF that under 50s can be hospitalized too? Shame on you. 🙃
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 01, 2020, 02:18:56 PM
Donít you know that itís misleading to suggest on DDF that under 50s can be hospitalized too? Shame on you. 🙃

That's why I posted 2 articles from both leaders in fake news so everyone will have a good reason to ignore me.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 09:44:08 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/months-into-coronavirus-pandemic-icu-doctors-are-split-on-best-treatment-11593602756?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moish on July 02, 2020, 07:22:51 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/months-into-coronavirus-pandemic-icu-doctors-are-split-on-best-treatment-11593602756?mod=mhp
https://outline.com/8q5skV
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 09:25:57 AM
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiI2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmtpa2FyLmNvLmlsLzM2NjA0Mi5odG1s0gEiaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cua2lrYXIuY28uaWwvYW1wLzM2NjA0Mg?hl=he&gl=IL&ceid=IL%3Ahe
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: justaregularguy on July 03, 2020, 12:05:49 PM
https://www.theepochtimes.com/hydroxychloroquine-lowers-covid-19-death-rate-us-study-finds_3410208.html/

and hydroxychloroquine is back
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 03, 2020, 12:43:07 PM
https://www.theepochtimes.com/hydroxychloroquine-lowers-covid-19-death-rate-us-study-finds_3410208.html/

and hydroxychloroquine is back

I got excited until I actually read up on the study. They didn't give the drug to anyone with cardiac issues. Well, when one half of your study has a hugely significant comorbidity like cardiac issues, and the other half doesn't, maybe it's not the drug that kept the fatality rate low. Maybe it's that they didn't have a friggin cardiac issue.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 03, 2020, 01:00:40 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/03/us/california-places-of-worship-pandemiic-trnd/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on July 04, 2020, 11:34:21 PM
I got excited until I actually read up on the study. They didn't give the drug to anyone with cardiac issues. Well, when one half of your study has a hugely significant comorbidity like cardiac issues, and the other half doesn't, maybe it's not the drug that kept the fatality rate low. Maybe it's that they didn't have a friggin cardiac issue.
Doesnít this mean they accounted for cardiac and other variables. Do you think the study authors would miss something so basic as propensity scoring?
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
ďFurther, a total of 190 hydroxychloroquine patients exactly matched up with 190 corresponding non-hydroxychloroquine treated patients based on the exact underlying propensity score. Table 3 contains a descriptive summarization of these patients within both the unmatched and propensity matched settings, confirming that the propensity matched groups have identical underlying patient characteristics. The Cox regression result for the two propensity matched groups (Table 4) indicates that treatment with hydroxychloroquine resulted in a mortality hazard ratio decrease of 51% (p = 0.009). The resulting Kaplan-Meier survival curves within the propensity matched setting displayed significantly better survival in the hydroxychloroquine treated group, with the enhanced survival persisting all the way out to 28 days from admissionĒ
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on July 04, 2020, 11:34:49 PM
https://matzav.com/more-covid-19-patients-are-surviving-ventilators-in-the-icu/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 04, 2020, 11:47:25 PM
https://matzav.com/more-covid-19-patients-are-surviving-ventilators-in-the-icu/

Greatest reason to keep as many people as possible from getting sick. Look what 3 months of science can do.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on July 04, 2020, 11:48:56 PM
Greatest reason to keep as many people as possible from getting sick. Look what 3 months of science can do.
Yes. A point in favor of that.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 04, 2020, 11:53:50 PM
Greatest reason to keep as many people as possible from getting sick. Look what 3 months of science can do.

Yup. As long as that was the argument (slow the spread, flatten the curve) it was plausible and garnered compliance. How unfortunate it is that the narrative changed.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 08:27:00 PM
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiL2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZW1hcmtlci5jb20vbmV3cy9oZWFsdGgvMS44OTcxNDk50gEzaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhlbWFya2VyLmNvbS9hbXAvbmV3cy9oZWFsdGgvMS44OTcxNDk5?hl=he&gl=IL&ceid=IL%3Ahe

Another professional stating that eradicating COVID-19 isn't practical.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on July 05, 2020, 08:30:26 PM
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiL2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZW1hcmtlci5jb20vbmV3cy9oZWFsdGgvMS44OTcxNDk50gEzaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhlbWFya2VyLmNvbS9hbXAvbmV3cy9oZWFsdGgvMS44OTcxNDk5?hl=he&gl=IL&ceid=IL%3Ahe

Another professional stating that eradicating COVID-19 isn't practical.
We canít ignore the fact that New Zealand did it
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 05, 2020, 08:36:18 PM
We canít ignore the fact that New Zealand did it
Plenty of countries flattened it, the US is failing miserably. Stating it's inevitable when a vaccine is around the corner is idiocy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 05, 2020, 08:47:03 PM
We canít ignore the fact that New Zealand did it

In what way would you compare New Zealand to the US? Population? Population density? Borders? Culture?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 05, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiL2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZW1hcmtlci5jb20vbmV3cy9oZWFsdGgvMS44OTcxNDk50gEzaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhlbWFya2VyLmNvbS9hbXAvbmV3cy9oZWFsdGgvMS44OTcxNDk5?hl=he&gl=IL&ceid=IL%3Ahe

Another professional stating that eradicating COVID-19 isn't practical.
Yet most countries whoíve encountered it have by now managed to keep it completely at bay. The US is literally doing the worst of any country by leaps and bounds by every metric imaginable.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 05, 2020, 08:52:36 PM
Yup. As long as that was the argument (slow the spread, flatten the curve) it was plausible and garnered compliance. How unfortunate it is that the narrative changed.
Whoís narrative? Whoís argument? What changed? It still applies. Itís always best to delay getting sick until as late as possibl to prevent being a guinea pig, even if itís inevitable. And it very much *isnít* inevitable, as nearly every other country has shown us, especially with multiple vaccines heading our way at lightning speed.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
Plenty of countries flattened it, the US is failing miserably. Stating it's inevitable when a vaccine is around the corner is idiocy.

https://youtu.be/_CXz3EleSXA?t=100

And what good is a vaccine if antibodies are no good?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 05, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
https://youtu.be/_CXz3EleSXA?t=100

And what good is a vaccine if antibodies are no good?
Again. Who is still claiming antibodies are no good? Some random Israeli minister? Iím pretty sure he isnít on DDF so you must be fregging on someone else. Pray tell, who is that? Iíve yet to see it on these forums so Iíd love if you could point them out so I could join you in your questioning their wisdom.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 05, 2020, 09:08:16 PM
https://youtu.be/_CXz3EleSXA?t=100

And what good is a vaccine if antibodies are no good?
What good are antibodies if a chicken doesnít skate?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 05, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
https://youtu.be/_CXz3EleSXA?t=100

And what good is a vaccine if antibodies are no good?
1. Nobody said that.
2. A vaccine can have other avenues of attack.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 05, 2020, 09:13:16 PM
And what good is a vaccine if antibodies are no good?

Who says antibodies aren't good? We just don't know how long they last. You know what other vaccine doesn't last? The flu shot. If you get a Covid shot once a year, and that immunity is enough to keep the spread very low, that's a somewhat realistic goal. As time goes on, the vaccine will get better and treatment protocols for those who do get it will be better, making this just another sickness we learn to live with, IY"H. We're not there yet, but it seems like we're well on our way.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 09:14:54 PM
1. Nobody said that.
2. A vaccine can have other avenues of attack.

כֹּחִי וְעֹצֶם יָדִי עָשָׂה לִי אֶת הַחַיִל הַזֶּה
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on July 05, 2020, 09:16:22 PM
In what way would you compare New Zealand to the US? Population? Population density? Borders? Culture?
What is your issue with me? The article was talking about Israel, they could have done the same as New Zealand had they not been so arrogant and acted with haste to reopen. Instead they are the rare country that locked down for three months and now has a raging epidemic.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 05, 2020, 09:24:49 PM
What is your issue with me? The article was talking about Israel, they could have done the same as New Zealand had they not been so arrogant and acted with haste to reopen. Instead they are the rare country that locked down for three months and now has a raging epidemic.

No issue with you at all. @ExGingi commented on the article that there's another professional who says we cannot eradicate Covid. I'm pretty sure he was extrapolating that opinion to the world, and specifically to the US, and I assumed you were responding in kind. The comparison is definitely more fitting with Israel.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: srap on July 05, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
https://youtu.be/_CXz3EleSXA?t=100 (https://youtu.be/_CXz3EleSXA?t=100)

And what good is a vaccine if antibodies are no good?
Was this youtube suppose to be something about antibodies or vaccines?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 09:26:54 PM
In what way would you compare New Zealand to the US? Population? Population density? Borders? Culture?

Israel is a lot more comparable to the US than to NZ.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 09:28:03 PM
Was this youtube suppose to be something about antibodies or vaccines?

About a vaccine being around the corner (specifically at that time stamp 1:40).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 05, 2020, 09:31:26 PM
Israel is a lot more comparable to the US than to NZ.

Make the argument.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 09:50:30 PM
Make the argument.

Urban population density, and very possibly culturally, despite linguistic difference.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 05, 2020, 09:55:05 PM
Urban population density, and very possibly culturally, despite linguistic difference.

Population size? One airport in the entire country? Maybe comparable to NJ, if you could lock down the borders with other states, but the US? I don't see how you make that comparison.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 10:32:10 PM
What is your issue with me? The article was talking about Israel, they could have done the same as New Zealand had they not been so arrogant and acted with haste to reopen. Instead they are the rare country that locked down for three months and now has a raging epidemic.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-06/australia-s-most-populous-states-to-close-shared-border?srnd=premium

Australia having similar problem.

And Australia's borders are closed tighter than US or Israeli borders (Australians need to get permission to fly overseas).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: cholent on July 05, 2020, 11:00:21 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/business/covid-economy-parents-kids-career-homeschooling.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 09:52:22 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-06/trials-and-tribulations-point-to-ways-to-save-covid-patients?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 09:58:03 PM
Plenty of countries flattened it, the US is failing miserably. Stating it's inevitable when a vaccine is around the corner is idiocy.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-06/fauci-says-he-assumes-any-vaccine-will-offer-finite-protection?in_source=postr_story_3

So the "vaccine around the corner" (which I am still skeptic about) isn't expected to provide better protection than naturally occurring antibodies.

Someone is being somewhat honest. My guess is that if they figured out how to lower the mortality rate, they'd stop with all the vaccine talk. Wait, haven't we seen that playbook before? Did they find an HIV vaccine, or did they just learn how to let people live with it? And back in the 80s (and possibly early 90s) they were handing out "equipment" to reduce the spread which was mostly limited to people that engaged in certain behaviors. Yet at this point they won't go the Singapore route and provide usable masks to everyone that's at risk.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 06, 2020, 10:04:46 PM
So the "vaccine around the corner" (which I am still skeptic about) isn't expected to provide better protection than naturally occurring antibodies.
Not what the article says. He says we might need a boost for continued protection, just as many vaccines do.

Did they find an HIV vaccine, or did they just learn how to let people live with it?
This isn't HIV. At all.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 10:10:52 PM
Not what the article says. He says we might need a boost for continued protection, just as many vaccines do.
And some people voluntarily forgo flu shots (not talking about anti-vaxers). And back in the 1970s they gave a Mantoux test to see if one needs a TB vaccine.

This isn't HIV. At all.
You're absolutely right. It's much more politicized (and MUCH LESS DEADLY than HIV was 9 months after it was discovered). And unlike HIV for which there is no known cure, just a management regimen, for most people the immune system manages to fight off covid-19 with no (known) long-term effects.

Do you remember the 1980s?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on July 06, 2020, 11:31:10 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/herd-immunity-may-be-closer-than-you-think-11594076237?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 09:19:15 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-08/covid-19-how-to-weigh-the-market-risks-kccu3uyp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 02:06:06 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-06/fauci-says-he-assumes-any-vaccine-will-offer-finite-protection?in_source=postr_story_3

So the "vaccine around the corner" (which I am still skeptical about) isn't expected to provide better protection than naturally occurring antibodies.

Someone is being somewhat honest. My guess is that if they figured out how to lower the mortality rate, they'd stop with all the vaccine talk. Wait, haven't we seen that playbook before? Did they find an HIV vaccine, or did they just learn how to let people live with it? And back in the 80s (and possibly early 90s) they were handing out "equipment" to reduce the spread which was mostly limited to people that engaged in certain behaviors. Yet at this point they won't go the Singapore route and provide usable masks to everyone that's at risk.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/opinions/covid-19-treatment-reason-for-hope-haseltine/index.html

Quote
While it may be possible to deliver a vaccine by the end of this year, absolutely every step of its development would have to go perfectly. From experience, I can tell you how rare that is.

Quote
But even without a vaccine, there is reason for hope that a medical solution to the crisis will soon be at hand. It will likely take the form of anti-Covid drugs that will be able to treat patients newly infected and prevent others from becoming ill.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 08, 2020, 02:08:55 PM
Never in the history of mankind has this many resources (brainpower+money) been thrown at a vaccine.
Something being "rare" is meaningless for this.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on July 08, 2020, 02:58:35 PM
Never in the history of mankind has this many resources (brainpower+money) been thrown at a vaccine.
Something being "rare" is meaningless for this.
Yup, and it's not like there is only 2 or 3 vaccine candidates for which "absolutely every step of its development would have to go perfectly". There are literally tens of them, even if things don't go perfectly on 98% of them, that still leaves candidates that are viable
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 03:05:54 PM
Never in the history of mankind has this many resources (brainpower+money) been thrown at a vaccine.
Something being "rare" is meaningless for this.

There are certain things that cannot be accelerated no matter how much money is spent.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 08, 2020, 03:08:34 PM
There are certain things that cannot be accelerated no matter how much money is spent.
And yet, they're already moving to stage 3.
Most of the reason for lengthy vaccine development time is ruinous financial risk. With billions being thrown at this, that risk has been removed.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 03:49:11 PM
And yet, they're already moving to stage 3.
Most of the reason for lengthy vaccine development time is ruinous financial risk. With billions being thrown at this, that risk has been removed.

How about longer term efficacy and safety?

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 08, 2020, 03:55:22 PM
How about longer term efficacy and safety?
We'll see what the efficacy is as time goes on, but even something that needs a booster or only lasts a year is still worthwhile.
Safety will have a 6 month study by the time something is ready.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 04:02:27 PM
How about longer term efficacy and safety?
For someone who has no concern of even long term effects of Covid-19, why would you be concerned about the safety of the vaccine?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 04:08:36 PM
For someone who has no concern of even long term effects of Covid-19, why would you be concerned about the safety of the vaccine?

Who said I'm concerned?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 08, 2020, 04:42:50 PM
For someone who has no concern of even long term effects of Covid-19, why would you be concerned about the safety of the vaccine?
Because one is already too late to do anything about?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Because one is already too late to do anything about?
That's assuming getting it a second time won't exacerbate and/or cause additional long term effects.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on July 08, 2020, 09:58:15 PM

https://www.jta.org/2020/07/08/health/brooklyns-hasidic-jews-are-acting-like-they-have-herd-immunity-could-they-be-right/amp?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
https://www.jta.org/2020/07/08/health/brooklyns-hasidic-jews-are-acting-like-they-have-herd-immunity-could-they-be-right/amp?

This needs some national attention IMHO.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on July 08, 2020, 11:28:38 PM
This needs some national attention IMHO.

Article quotes Rabbi doctor Glatt saying "statistically itís worth zero"
That gives us some explanation why some don't want to research this and come up with new thoughts and ideas.
Some are just locked in to a mindset.

Yes we know statistically this isn't properly done.
But we also know that there is no cases of coved-19 in the despite being fully open for weeks.

Rather than saying this is worth zero try studying it and come up with an explanation and can use that to implement in other scenario
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 08, 2020, 11:53:14 PM
Article quotes Rabbi doctor Glatt saying "statistically itís worth zero"
That gives us some explanation why some don't want to research this and come up with new thoughts and ideas.
Some are just locked in to a mindset.

Yes we know statistically this isn't properly done.
But we also know that there is no cases of coved-19 in the despite being fully open for weeks.

Rather than saying this is worth zero try studying it and come up with an explanation and can use that to implement in other scenario

I believe he's saying it's worth zero because if you can get reinfected, then there is no herd immunity (other than for maybe a few months at a time).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 12:00:18 AM
I believe he's saying it's worth zero because if you can get reinfected, then there is no herd immunity (other than for maybe a few months at a time).

Despite what you believe, that's not what the article says. It is rather what @mgarfin explained, that based on objective scientific approaches, the data cannot be relied upon.

Well, as @mgarfin pointed out, while it doesn't fit the standards, it might still be worth investigating. Though that might be futile, as this virus just keeps on proving that no one understands anything.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on July 09, 2020, 12:06:54 AM
Despite what you believe, that's not what the article says. It is rather what @mgarfin explained, that based on objective scientific approaches, the data cannot be relied upon.

Well, as @mgarfin pointed out, while it doesn't fit the standards, it might still be worth investigating. Though that might be futile, as this virus just keeps on proving that no one understands anything.
It will also be worth investigating that the community is seeing reinfections. So far we have (at least) 1 in CH, 2 in Deal. These may be the first confirmed reinfections globally.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 04:15:37 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.html

No one would resist starting off such an article talking about the neighborhood of Corona in Queens.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 07:12:17 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-us-bankruptcies-coronavirus/?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on July 09, 2020, 10:27:43 PM
It will also be worth investigating that the community is seeing reinfections. So far we have (at least) 1 in CH, 2 in Deal. These may be the first confirmed reinfections globally.

Interestingly that a Dr that is a vocal opponent to reopening had this happen within his practice
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 10, 2020, 02:01:36 AM
It will also be worth investigating that the community is seeing reinfections. So far we have (at least) 1 in CH, 2 in Deal. These may be the first confirmed reinfections globally.
And how, pray tell, do you know they are reinfections and not relapse flare-ups?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 05:12:11 AM
And how, pray tell, do you know they are reinfections and not relapse flare-ups?

Dr. Ditchek says that he saw 2 patients today who've been reinfected even though they've had antibodies (one donated plasma twice).
Watch the video for more details about additional cases.
I personally do not know, but see the above thread starting from this post for more.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on July 10, 2020, 07:31:12 AM
Cover article in this weekís Voice of Lakewood is about travel during COVID. It quotes Frum United pilot from Deal. You can read it online by clicking on the issue http://thevoiceoflakewood.com/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 09:27:16 AM
And how, pray tell, do you know they are reinfections and not relapse flare-ups?

We don't know yet. However, given that the average coronavirus confers immunity for 3-6 months, and we have no history of coronaviruses laying dormant and then flaring up randomly, it is logical to lean towards new infection vs flare-up. Then again, this is a novel coronavirus, so maybe unusual answers are the right ones.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 10, 2020, 09:28:43 AM
we have no history of coronaviruses laying dormant and then flaring up randomly
Plenty of documented cases. I believe Dan himself suffered a likely relapse. 130+ in Korea.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 09:33:06 AM
Plenty of documented cases. I believe Dan himself suffered a likely relapse. 130+ in Korea.

Korea they attributed to dead cells. Flare-ups of symptoms within weeks is one thing. Symptoms and positive PCR tests months later is quite another.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 10, 2020, 12:53:34 PM
Korea they attributed to dead cells. Flare-ups of symptoms within weeks is one thing. Symptoms and positive PCR tests months later is quite another.
Especially when household members (one in CH and one in Deal) test positive as well.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 10, 2020, 04:45:57 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-10/why-isn-t-california-criticized-like-florida-on-covid-19?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 10, 2020, 05:31:04 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-10/why-isn-t-california-criticized-like-florida-on-covid-19?
@YitzyS can you get your marketing team to promote this?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 05:34:14 PM
@YitzyS can you get your marketing team to promote this?

That California should get trashed, too? Or that if you handle things with humility, you won't get panned like DeSean Jackson celebrating early and dropping the ball on the one?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 10, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
That California should get trashed, too? Or that if you handle things with humility, you won't get panned like DeSean Jackson celebrating early and dropping the ball on the one?
Both? Ca definitely deserves to be trashed and let's raise the alarm to make sure the tragedy doesn't continue!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 12, 2020, 11:38:38 AM
We'll see what the efficacy is as time goes on, but even something that needs a booster or only lasts a year is still worthwhile.
Safety will have a 6 month study by the time something is ready.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-twice-reinfection-antibody-herd-immunity

Quote
In general, the unknowns of immune responses to SARS-CoV-2 currently outweigh the knowns. We do not know how much immunity to expect once someone is infected with the virus, we do not know how long that immunity may last, and we do not know how many antibodies are needed to mount an effective response. And although there is some hope regarding cellular immunity (including T-cell responses) in the absence of a durable antibody response, the early evidence of reinfections puts the effectiveness of these immune responses in question as well.
I would FTFH to point that it's not only the unknowns of the immune responses, but of almost any aspect of COVID-19.

Quote
Last, if reinfection is possible on such a short timeline, there are implications for the efficacy and durability of vaccines developed to fight the disease.

Always follow the money trail. It's leads to the vaccines, regardless if that's the most sensible approach or use of resources.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on July 12, 2020, 12:00:27 PM
Article in this week's Voice of Lakewood about flying during COVID, includes quotes with Deal-based frum pilot Charlie Dadoun.

http://thevoiceoflakewood.com/3dissue/070920/index.html#

Starts on page 146
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 12, 2020, 07:22:01 PM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/cdc-stop-calling-covid-epidemic
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 12, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
https://www.theblaze.com/news/cdc-stop-calling-covid-epidemic

So because we're doing more testing the death rate per case is going down so it's not a pandemic.
Cool!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 12, 2020, 07:32:29 PM
So because we're doing more testing the death rate per case is going down so it's not a pandemic.
Cool!
Well isn't a pandemic because of high % death rate?. So if that rate is no longer high only makes sense that its no longer a pandemic.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 12, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321653/getting-covid-19-twice-reinfection-antibody-herd-immunity
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 12, 2020, 08:10:42 PM
Well isn't a pandemic because of high % death rate?. So if that rate is no longer high only makes sense that its no longer a pandemic.
Well actually a pandemic has nothing at all to do with there even being one death.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 13, 2020, 08:54:27 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/its-just-nuts-to-praise-nys-success-against-the-coronavirus/
Well put.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 13, 2020, 09:14:59 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/07/13/its-just-nuts-to-praise-nys-success-against-the-coronavirus/
Well put.
+1
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: cmey on July 14, 2020, 06:07:02 AM
https://www.todayonline.com/world/mystery-argentine-sailors-infected-virus-after-35-days-sea
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on July 14, 2020, 03:27:41 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/covid-19-mitzvah-orthodox-jews-donate-blood-plasma-thousands-n1232656
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 14, 2020, 10:08:01 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-14/coronavirus-conversations-with-one-of-america-s-richest-men
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on July 14, 2020, 11:14:21 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/07/14/anthony-fauci-wrong-with-me-peter-navarro-editorials-debates/5439374002/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on July 15, 2020, 02:09:18 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/07/14/man-bikes-2175-miles-across-europe-after-flight-canceled/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 15, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-covid-positive-test-hoax-20200713-xk3aueospjef7dffzazn4zm5ky-story.html
I actually know someone in Cleveland who this happened to
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: justaregularguy on July 15, 2020, 03:28:59 PM
im hearing on the radio that some places are reporting 100% positive covid cases in FL? some reporters are investigating this bc it sounds ridiculous
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 15, 2020, 03:33:59 PM
im hearing on the radio that some places are reporting 100% positive covid cases in FL? some reporters are investigating this bc it sounds ridiculous
Yep
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-update-florida-labs-not-reporting-negative-test-results-report
Cnn missed this story
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 15, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
im hearing on the radio that some places are reporting 100% positive covid cases in FL? some reporters are investigating this bc it sounds ridiculous

There aren't really any usable numbers coming out of FL. They have an insane backlog of tests, and the percentage of positive tests from all the different labs don't add up. Some are at nearly 100% positive, others at 50%, and others at 10%. For now, new and active hospitalizations and available ICU beds are the only somewhat reliable numbers if you're trying to get a grasp on what's happening here.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 15, 2020, 07:37:53 PM
https://www.fiercepharma.com/vaccines/merck-ceo-frazier-says-covid-19-vaccine-hype-a-grave-disservice-to-public


Actual video interview and transcript:
https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/merck-ceo-ken-frazier-speaks-about-a-covid-cure-racism-and-why-leaders-need-to-walk-the-talk
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 15, 2020, 07:44:42 PM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/15/politics/tate-reeves-mississippi-coronavirus-herd-immunity/index.html

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 16, 2020, 09:44:43 PM
https://matzav.com/cdc-coronavirus-death-rate-likely-just-0-26-twice-as-deadly-as-the-flu/
So... the CDC changed the current best estimate of the IFR to .65% (which is much more in line with reality) without telling anyone. Iím waiting to hear some breathless news reports in another couple of weeks about this ďbreaking newsĒ.

(They also assume that asymptomatic people are 75% as infectious as symptomatic people, and 50% of transmission occurs before symptoms appear).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 16, 2020, 10:06:36 PM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/four-assumptions-about-the-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 16, 2020, 10:19:13 PM
So... the CDC changed the current best estimate of the IFR to .65% (which is much more in line with reality) without telling anyone. Iím waiting to hear some breathless news reports in another couple of weeks about this ďbreaking newsĒ.

(They also assume that asymptomatic people are 75% as infectious as symptomatic people, and 50% of transmission occurs before symptoms appear).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box
In retrospect, this (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext) peer-reviewed study from *March* (which estimates an IFR of .66%) does indeed seem to be quite accurate (according to the CDCís current best estimate)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 16, 2020, 11:28:24 PM
So... the CDC changed the current best estimate of the IFR to .65% (which is much more in line with reality) without telling anyone. Iím waiting to hear some breathless news reports in another couple of weeks about this ďbreaking newsĒ.

(They also assume that asymptomatic people are 75% as infectious as symptomatic people, and 50% of transmission occurs before symptoms appear).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box
Getting closer to my calculation...

Looks like a fatality rate of about 0.75% to me.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 18, 2020, 11:25:45 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-18/covid-most-of-world-to-face-virus-without-vaccine-expert-says

Quote
We have to find a way to open our community in a way that supports our long-term medical goal, which is the least number of casualties over time, knowing that you cannot avoid the spread of infection. There is no other tool available.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 18, 2020, 11:31:45 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-18/covid-most-of-world-to-face-virus-without-vaccine-expert-says
Interesting article, where he acknowledges that the wealthier countries are going to have a vaccine by the end of this year/beginning of next, although less connected countries may go months or a year before they have equal access. I highly doubt the WHO will be able to change DJTís mind about that, so heís probably right.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 19, 2020, 02:52:25 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-19/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 19, 2020, 02:55:10 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-19/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds
Very low sample size, all of the data can be attributed to a single teen super spreader
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
Very low sample size, all of the data can be attributed to a single teen super spreader

Would I be wrong if I said that most MSM COVID-19 studies/facts/science/etc. is holding onto straws for confirmation bias?

For real science I like to read @biobook's summaries of Daniel Griffin on TWiV.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 19, 2020, 03:10:33 PM
Very low sample size, all of the data can be attributed to a single teen super spreader

Possible.

This is why younger people getting it matters in a huge way. What you do matters. What your kids do matters.


(https://i.postimg.cc/9MymSNwv/Ages-thru-7-1.png) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Xq8VNG8L/Ages-Thru-7-16.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 19, 2020, 03:14:28 PM
Would I be wrong if I said that most MSM COVID-19 studies/facts/science/etc. is holding onto straws for confirmation bias?

Yes. Where did they get the initial opinion from that they're trying to confirm? Almost everything we believe now we already knew from Chinese doctors in January.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 19, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
Would I be wrong if I said that most MSM COVID-19 studies/facts/science/etc. is holding onto straws for confirmation bias?

For real science I like to read @biobook's summaries of Daniel Griffin on TWiV.
Yes, completely wrong. What are you talking about? What straws? Like the assumption that masks donít work, that itís not that deadly, that there are no long term effects?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 03:59:13 PM
Yes. Where did they get the initial opinion from that they're trying to confirm? Almost everything we believe now we already knew from Chinese doctors in January.

Except that... we mostly don't know much and didn't know much in January.

There's a lot of guessing, but actual science? Did we know in January that blood clots are a major issue? That steroids and anti-coagulants save lives? That HCQ+Zinc+Azythromicin can work for many people?

Oh, we do know that several communities around NYC were very badly hit early on, suffered casualties, but despite largely ignoring social distancing, masks and other guidelines, have been able to go back to normal life without fear and without major reinfections and tragedies.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 19, 2020, 04:07:11 PM
Except that... we mostly don't know much and didn't know much in January.

There's a lot of guessing, but actual science? Did we know in January that blood clots are a major issue? That steroids and anti-coagulants save lives? That HCQ+Zinc+Azythromicin can work for many people?

Oh, we do know that several communities around NYC were very badly hit early on, suffered casualties, but despite largely ignoring social distancing, masks and other guidelines, have been able to go back to normal life without fear and without major reinfections and tragedies.
🤦

We knew a lot in January, and we know more now, including (maybe) the two examples you gave.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 04:35:48 PM
🤦

We knew a lot in January, and we know more now, including (maybe) the two examples you gave.

(https://i.imgur.com/uUKpel0.png)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 05:50:11 PM
https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 05:59:15 PM
https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/

Does your experience in CH correspond to his premise that this was a "manufacutred panic"?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 06:09:06 PM
Does your experience in CH correspond to his premise that this was a "manufacutred panic"?

So now I actually have to read the article, rather than just glance through it, in order to provide a meaningful answer. I'll try to do that when I have a chance.

But just based on your question, without actually reading how it is written about in the article, and at the risk of being misunderstood, I will say that almost all panics are "manufactured".

Was there something terrible going on? Yes.
Was there very serious and real reason for concern? Absolutely.
Was the medical system overwhelmed, both by the volume of cases, as well as by their ignorance of how to properly treat them? A strong and resounding yes!
Does any of this justify panic? Not IMHO. Definitely not for someone striving to be a בעל אמונה ובטחון.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 06:14:52 PM
So now I actually have to read the article, rather than just glance through it, in order to provide a meaningful answer. I'll try to do that when I have a chance.

But just based on your question, without actually reading how it is written about in the article, and at the risk of being misunderstood, I will say that almost all panics are "manufactured".

Was there something terrible going on? Yes.
Was there very serious and real reason for concern? Absolutely.
Was the medical system overwhelmed, both by the volume of cases, as well as by their ignorance of how to properly treat them? A strong and resounding yes!
Does any of this justify panic? Not IMHO. Definitely not for someone striving to be a בעל אמונה ובטחון.

Nahh you don't need to read it. The premise of the articlew is that this was about the same as the flu.

Re panic. I fully agree that nobody should panic. Everyone should be calm and collected and just take whatever precautions they need to. That is very appropriate for someone striving to be a בעל אמונה ובטחון.

Were some of the precautions implemeted by the power hungry way overboard? YES and then on top of that they had zero exit strategy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on July 19, 2020, 06:43:28 PM
Would I be wrong if I said that most MSM COVID-19 studies/facts/science/etc. is holding onto straws for confirmation bias?

For real science I like to read @biobook's summaries of Daniel Griffin on TWiV.
@ExGingi   On what do you base your decision of whom to trust?  Why Dr Griffin, and not the doctors and scientists who write in newspapers or speak on tv, youtube or wherever?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 06:47:14 PM
Were some of the precautions implemeted by the power hungry way overboard? YES and then on top of that they had zero exit strategy.

Right on the ball!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 06:53:03 PM
@ExGingi   On what do you base your decision of whom to trust?  Why Dr Griffin, and not the doctors and scientists who write in newspapers or speak on tv, youtube or wherever?

Good question. It might be a hunch, it might be something in the style and content. IINM he hasn't been shy to acknowledge shortcomings and lack of knowledge. I pick up bits and pieces from many places. I don't read newspapers or watch TV. Google News, Bloomberg.com, Twitter, and some Jewish Websites (DDF being one of them) are my news/information feeds. I tend to doubt anything that sounds like it has the absolute grasp of facts or truth.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 06:53:54 PM
Right on the ball!
That was so obvious and I have been saying this for months already.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 07:00:06 PM
That was so obvious and I have been saying this for months already.

Indeed. Along with others who have been trying to sound the "don't expect a vaccine any time soon, we need to figure out how this plays out" message.

But it seems like this might be a feature of Millennialism (not sure if that's an actual term, but I'm sure you know what I mean), no exit strategy is required (not to mention a plan B, C, or D, but even a simple straightforward exit plan that might or might not work). Just ask the FED, or for that matter anyone in Washington, DC (or any other government, other than some totalitarian, or semi-totalitarian regimes such as Iran, China, Turkey, Russia, etc.)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 19, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
That was so obvious and I have been saying this for months already.
Yup, and why its backfiring majorly now... "Stay home and save lives" for 4 months, now you come out and its like sorry we messed up so you need to do it again. Its out of control.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 07:08:02 PM
Yup, and why its backfiring majorly now... "Stay home and save lives" for 4 months, now you come out and its like sorry we messed up so you need to do it again. Its out of control.

Yup but at the end of the day it will be those who have total diregard who will be the ones causing a new lockdown regime.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 19, 2020, 07:13:16 PM
Yup but at the end of the day it will be those who have total diregard who will be the ones causing a new lockdown regime.
But who can blame them, 4 months of lockdown with no game plan. First it was flatten the curve, once it got flattened turns out it doesn't stay flat. Now its we can't open gyms because 7 people in the entire country tested positive at one. We're in a really tough spot.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on July 19, 2020, 07:38:16 PM
Good question. It might be a hunch, it might be something in the style and content. IINM he hasn't been shy to acknowledge shortcomings and lack of knowledge. I pick up bits and pieces from many places. I don't read newspapers or watch TV. Google News, Bloomberg.com, Twitter, and some Jewish Websites (DDF being one of them) are my news/information feeds. I tend to doubt anything that sounds like it has the absolute grasp of facts or truth.
So what did you mean by: "Would I be wrong if I said that most MSM COVID-19 studies/facts/science/etc. is holding onto straws for confirmation bias?"
Aren't you using MSM to refer to Mainstream Media, such as newspapers and TV news shows?
And isn't Google News just linking to various newspaper and TV news stories?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 07:41:20 PM
And isn't Google News just linking to various newspaper and TV news stories?

They are. And I mostly just scan through the headlines or summaries, and in the rare occasion that I see something that I think might be interesting, I actually click on it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on July 19, 2020, 07:43:48 PM
They are. And I mostly just scan through the headlines or summaries, and in the rare occasion that I see something that I think might be interesting, I actually click on it.
So if you're not in the habit of reading them, why do you denigrate them?  And why do you think Dr Griffin is any more reliable than the experts who write or are quoted in the newspapers and TV news?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 07:46:00 PM
But who can blame them, 4 months of lockdown with no game plan. First it was flatten the curve, once it got flattened turns out it doesn't stay flat. Now its we can't open gyms because 7 people in the entire country tested positive at one. We're in a really tough spot.
I absolutely would b blame someone who doesn't take responsibility for his own actions just because some stupid politician was incompetent.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on July 19, 2020, 08:15:09 PM
Right on the ball!
It seems clear to me that the lack of ability to quickly adjust to the facts on the ground will lead to lives lost. Still acting in NY like it's March and the virus is rampant is going to kill people, because by the time the virus God forbid returns, people will be sick and tired of all of this. If instead they had 5 months of relative normalcy with reasonable precautions (with trust being built by gov't) then if there is a need to go back to more restrictive protocols, it would have been much easier for people and more likely to follow. Instead people won't trust, will be totally fatigued and Chalilah lives will be lost.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 19, 2020, 11:45:33 PM
https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/
There was a link to this article. Quite a game changer.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html
Just a little "science"
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 19, 2020, 11:52:30 PM
There was a link to this article. Quite a game changer.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html
Just a little "science"

That was the science du jour more than a month ago.

Quote
Asymptomatic spread of coronavirus is Ďvery rare,í WHO says
PUBLISHED MON, JUN 8 20201:05 PM EDT
UPDATED WED, JUN 10 20202:17 PM EDT

Is it still considered science? Or was it relegated to right wing, Trump supporters, Bolsonaro followers, conspiracy theory status by now?

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 20, 2020, 12:01:02 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-16/how-fast-do-asymptomatic-covid-19-cases-spread-coronavirus
Apparently it's still controversial
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on July 20, 2020, 12:12:34 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/health/coronavirus-premature-birth.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 20, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-16/how-fast-do-asymptomatic-covid-19-cases-spread-coronavirus
Apparently it's still controversial
It is nearly fully established science that people without current symptoms are responsible for the majority of the spread.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 20, 2020, 12:18:56 PM
It is nearly fully established science that people without current symptoms are responsible for the majority of the spread.

(current) Source?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 20, 2020, 12:25:58 PM
(current) Source?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 20, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

And where do you read there that

It is nearly fully established science that people without current symptoms are responsible for the majority of the spread.

Rather than:

Quote
The relative infectiousness of asymptomatic cases to symptomatic cases remains highly uncertain as asymptomatic cases are difficult to identify and transmission is difficult to observe and quantify. The estimates for relative infectiousness are assumptions based on studies of viral shedding dynamics. The upper bound of this estimate reflects studies that have shown similar durations of viral shedding between symptomatic and asymptomatic cases: Zou L, Ruan F, Huang M, et al. SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients. N Engl J Med. 2020;382(12):1177-1179; and Zhou R, Li F, Chen F, et al. Viral dynamics in asymptomatic patients with COVID-19 [published online ahead of print, 2020 May 11]. Int J Infect Dis. 2020; 96:288-290. The lower bound of this estimate reflects data indicating that viral loads are higher in severe cases relative to mild cases (Liu Y, Yan LM, Wan L, et al. Viral dynamics in mild and severe cases of COVID-19. Lancet Infect Dis. 2020;20(6):656-657) and data showing that viral loads and shedding durations are higher among symptomatic cases relative to asymptomatic cases (Noh JY, Yoon JG, Seong H, et al. Asymptomatic infection and atypical manifestations of COVID-19: Comparison of viral shedding duration [published online ahead of print, 2020 May 21]. J Infect. 2020; S0163-4453(20)30310-8). The current best estimate is an assumption.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 20, 2020, 12:47:31 PM
And where do you read there that

Rather than:
That would be the part where I said
current symptoms

I have previously discussed with you the difference between presymptomatic and asymptomatic so you should be able to see what I mean.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 20, 2020, 02:55:37 PM
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
It's about mask used to prevent flu so not sure how it relates to covid. But it's still interesting
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 20, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
It's about mask used to prevent flu so not sure how it relates to covid. But it's still interesting

I just read the abstract, and it appears totally blasphemous! I wonder how long before the thought police finds out.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on July 20, 2020, 10:27:26 PM
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
It's about mask used to prevent flu so not sure how it relates to covid. But it's still interesting
I just read the abstract, and it appears totally blasphemous! I wonder how long before the thought police finds out.
Itís been posted here before, and obviously nobody wears a mask during flu seasons so Iím not sure what chiddushim we are expected to be seeing.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 20, 2020, 10:39:42 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/07/20/gov-andrew-cuomo-visits-georgia-over-coronavirus-outbreak/
Not going to lie, they've been on their A game recently. Straight and to the point.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on July 21, 2020, 11:07:05 AM
That was the science du jour more than a month ago.

Is it still considered science? Or was it relegated to right wing, Trump supporters, Bolsonaro followers, conspiracy theory status by now?

The WHO came out with their nonsense and were debunked by literally everyone. So badly debunked they actually retracted it the next day (https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/). Here's an article linking to a study that shows a little more than half of the spread has come from asymptomatic/presymptomatic cases https://abcnews.go.com/Health/asymptomatic-presymptomatic-people-transmit-covid-19-infections-study/story?id=71647268

But regardless, no one should be relying on the WHO for corona advice. I donít remember the last time the WHO said something about Covid that wasnít false or outdated.

-The WHO removed guidance that traditional Chinese medicine is an ineffective treatment after receiving Chinese money
-The WHO refused to classify corona as a pandemic until pretty late in the game (Mid/late March?)
-The WHO claimed no human-to-human transmission
-The WHO did not recommend masks for public use until June despite numerous studies
-WHO claimed 99% of cases experience fever (lol)
-WHO claims no asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread
-WHO refuses to recognize that corona is airborne

I'm sure there's more but this is what I remember.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 21, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
The WHO came out with their nonsense and were debunked by literally everyone. ...
...
But regardless, no one should be relying on the WHO for corona advice. I donít remember the last time the WHO said something about Covid that wasnít false or outdated.

Wow.

Now imagine if a year ago I would make similar statements about the WHO, exchanging corona/covid for something else. How many mainstream people would consider those to be extreme nutcase conspiracy theory statements?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on July 21, 2020, 11:45:02 AM
Wow.

Now imagine if a year ago I would make similar statements about the WHO, exchanging corona/covid for something else. How many mainstream people would consider those to be extreme nutcase conspiracy theory statements?

In a comparable case, I wouldn't say many, because at least for corona the WHO repeatedly has gone against mainstream scientific knowledge. They are not cutting edge health organization. They aren't useful for updated information but they might be useful when you're publishing a text book in a couple of years.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 21, 2020, 11:52:56 AM
Wow.

Now imagine if a year ago I would make similar statements about the WHO, exchanging corona/covid for something else. How many mainstream people would consider those to be extreme nutcase conspiracy theory statements?
Somewhere in the good news thread is a post about how COVID brought out the true colors of some.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Proisrael on July 22, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
https://wiod.iheart.com/featured/brian-mudd/content/2020-07-22-understanding-the-past-present-and-future-of-covid-19/?Sc=editorial&Keyid=socialflow&Pname=local_social&fbclid=IwAR2FwyF41Kg778TxCxXLJkLEs39eXUwV3iOmfe5yNgi94UnQEye2JqcKfPc
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 22, 2020, 03:02:49 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/coronavirus-lockdowns-big-mistake-led-to-crippling-of-economy-and-hasnt-done-much-to-the-virus-rand-paul-says
Definitely an interesting perspective, hard to tell what would have happened otherwise. But seems at this point that the virus did run its course in ny/nj just like in europe.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 22, 2020, 07:27:49 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/7-22-20-news-roundup-israel-flights-covid-19-thoughts-cuomo-aa-adding-flights-jetblue-ditching-long-beach-hertz-improvements-dot-complaint-elons-negative-fine/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on July 23, 2020, 12:45:42 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/7-22-20-news-roundup-israel-flights-covid-19-thoughts-cuomo-aa-adding-flights-jetblue-ditching-long-beach-hertz-improvements-dot-complaint-elons-negative-fine/
We gotta make a like button after every segment of a roundup. I feel like I need to get that out of me after most of the segments...  :)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on July 23, 2020, 02:20:03 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/major-league-baseball-back-while-coronavirus-rages-money-winning-over-ncna1234600
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 23, 2020, 04:43:58 PM
We gotta make a like button after every segment of a roundup. I feel like I need to get that out of me after most of the segments...  :)

+1

This was an excellent post.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 23, 2020, 11:02:17 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/23/health/cdc-coronavirus-school-guidelines-new/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on July 23, 2020, 11:54:35 PM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/covid-19-measures-have-all-but-wiped-out-the-flu-in-the-southern-hemisphere-11595440682
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: justaregularguy on July 23, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1885990/frum-community-arranges-historic-plasma-drive.html

very cool

I find it funny that there are A LOT of pictures in this article lol

also looks like @Dan flew in for the occasion ( picture 7 )  ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 24, 2020, 02:00:05 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/progressives-to-cities-drop-dead-11595458490
Very well put.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on July 24, 2020, 04:17:11 PM
https://cross-currents.com/2020/07/24/covid-19-extremes-too-much-of-a-good-thing/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 25, 2020, 11:14:40 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/whats-plan-b-theres-no-151000003.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 27, 2020, 01:36:17 PM
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 27, 2020, 01:51:23 PM
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

There's no $$$$ or power in using HCQ+Azythromicin+Zinc.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jeremiah on July 27, 2020, 02:18:49 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-pepper-spray-coronavirus-mask-san-diego-dog-park
They probably deserved it because they were not helping to flatten the curve
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 27, 2020, 05:59:30 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/illinois-covid-19-cases-climbing-will-chicago-require-14-day-quarantine-anyone-recently-illinois-wrong-metric-used/

@CountValentine :)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: CountValentine on July 27, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/illinois-covid-19-cases-climbing-will-chicago-require-14-day-quarantine-anyone-recently-illinois-wrong-metric-used/

@CountValentine :)
Deaths today - 1
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 27, 2020, 06:50:29 PM
Deaths today - 1

Is that a -1? A return from the dead?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 27, 2020, 06:58:39 PM
Deaths today - 1
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 27, 2020, 09:12:30 PM

Might need to wait until Friday afternoon with music videos.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on July 27, 2020, 09:22:01 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/illinois-covid-19-cases-climbing-will-chicago-require-14-day-quarantine-anyone-recently-illinois-wrong-metric-used/

@CountValentine :)
How can you compare fatality rate in FL to fatality rate in NY.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 27, 2020, 10:16:01 PM
Is that a -1? A return from the dead?
Like HTs
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 27, 2020, 10:17:23 PM
Might need to wait until Friday afternoon with music videos.
@CountValentine's LOR is a maikel, he holds by recorded music during the 9 days.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: CountValentine on July 27, 2020, 10:22:42 PM
@CountValentine's LOR is a maikel, he holds by recorded music during the 9 days.
Ya, what he said.  :)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 27, 2020, 11:46:29 PM
@CountValentine's LOR is a maikel, he holds by recorded music during the 9 days.

You didn't PM the response. You posted it publicly on a Jewish Forum where everything is a Halachic discussion. @YitzyS I think this deserves some serious press coverage.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 27, 2020, 11:48:34 PM
@CountValentine's LOR is a maikel, he holds by recorded music during the 9 days.

Does he ask an LOR? I thought he follows an LCR! After all location is Poland, not Russia or Ukraine.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 28, 2020, 01:01:17 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/27/spains-experience-shows-swedens-covid-approach-could-have-right/
You can lock down from today until tomorrow but you can't fully control it, you just need to let it run its course. Even though this happened in the entire world nobody seems to see it yet, sad.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on July 28, 2020, 01:05:50 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/27/spains-experience-shows-swedens-covid-approach-could-have-right/
You can lock down from today until tomorrow but you can't fully control it, you just need to let it run its course. Even though this happened in the entire world nobody seems to see it yet, sad.

Conveniently ignoring that even if the death rate of a comparable country, like Norway, does catch up to Sweden's, there was no economic benefit:
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 28, 2020, 01:15:02 AM
Conveniently ignoring that even if the death rate of a comparable country, like Norway, does catch up to Sweden's, there was no economic benefit:
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7
Guess depends who you ask.
https://www.ft.com/content/f7be28a0-ba3c-49d2-ab0c-09c932f32901
I have never seen such a high proportion of companies coming in with better profits than expected. Itís almost every company,Ē said Esbjorn Lundevall, chief equity strategist at lender SEB
They seem to think there was an economic benefit.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 28, 2020, 07:46:58 AM
Conveniently ignoring that even if the death rate of a comparable country, like Norway, does catch up to Sweden's, there was no economic benefit:
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7
There are many metrics. Mental health is a potentially big difference. Are there any studies about that? Also, the big question is if the measures taken created a benefit not if their was a benefit from not taking them. If the measure do not provide benefit (I personally do not think that to be the case) then why implement them at great personal inconvenience to everyone?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on July 28, 2020, 07:47:28 AM
Guess depends who you ask.
https://www.ft.com/content/f7be28a0-ba3c-49d2-ab0c-09c932f32901
I have never seen such a high proportion of companies coming in with better profits than expected. Itís almost every company,Ē said Esbjorn Lundevall, chief equity strategist at lender SEB
They seem to think there was an economic benefit.


There are many US companies that can be said about too.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on July 28, 2020, 08:48:24 AM
There are a lot of different numbers being thrown around:
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on July 28, 2020, 08:50:23 AM
Claims there are almost no excess deaths for the year in Sweden

https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2020/07/27/sweden-covid-19-status-july-27th/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on July 28, 2020, 03:52:34 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/07/28/camp-bnos-shuts-down-after-2-positive-covid-19-cases/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on July 29, 2020, 11:09:09 AM
https://dallasvoice.com/a-harsh-lesson-in-the-reality-of-covid-19/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on July 30, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-worlds-covid-resurgence-11595978652?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/2zDkDurv9Y
Shocker.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on July 31, 2020, 01:31:57 PM
Imagine it's the year 2033. Covid has changed America forever. People have not gathered in large groups for 13 years. All children go to school online. All parties are on Zoom. It has been this way for 13 years.

Now imagine that you're the parent of a bar-mitzvah boy. Your son has been preparing for a year to read the Torah to his friends and family over Zoom. The day arrives, you turn on Zoom, and he does his thing. Everyone is clapping and singing, congratulations are offered. Toasts are made. Your son, the bar mitzvah boy, is beaming. You've never seen him so happy. Nothing takes away from his joy on this day. And why shouldn't he jubilant? He has never known anything else.

He was raised in a Covid world, where everything is done online. He's been looking forward to his Zoom bar-mitzvah for years. This is how it's done. He has no memory of the world before Covid. But you, his parent, while proud and celebratory, find yourself hiding in the bathroom on this day, more than once, and quietly weeping for what once was. You cry not only because your son cannot have a 'normal' bar-mitzvah (your normal, not his), but also because your son does not even know that he is missing anything. So far removed is he from that reality, that he acts as if everything is as it should be; only you know that something is very wrong.

The tragedy of the day is not that your son cannot have a real bar mitzvah. The tragedy is that he doesn't even know what that is.

Guess what? We are that boy.

We were raised in the diaspora; we never had the Temple, the sacrifices, prophecy, the feeling of God's presence, never kept all the laws related to the land of Israel, etc. We go about our business as if this is Judaism, as if this is how it's supposed to be, as if this is how it's always been and how it always will be. But, the truth is, we've been in lockdown for 2000 years. For 2000 years our Judaism and our God has had to wear a mask. For 2000 years we have been socially distanced from Hashem. We are that happy bar-mitzvah boy who celebrates as if this is all there is; but, really, we have no idea what good is. We have no idea what God is.

Of course, I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point. We do know more than that boy in the story. Part of the genius of the Jewish people--and a key to our survival--is our memory.

We remember what we never even experienced. We even have memories of the future. (That's right! Through learning the Prophets, the future becomes a memory.) We have never become complacent. We have never forgotten that there is so much more than this.

How have we done this?

Through education, rituals, mitzvot, and through our prayers, which are filled with references to the Temple, the Redemption, and the yearning for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Am Yisrael is amazing. We've managed to live our lives in lockdown, but we never let ourselves accept lockdown. We never settled for lockdown. Every day we prayed for more. Every day we prayed for a return to normal. We rejoice. We make lavish bar-mitzvahs. But, always, in the midst of our joy, we remember Jerusalem. We never let ourselves forget that there is more than this. Only Am Yisrael can do this. Only Am Yisrael can dance in prison and still strive to get out of prison. We will do it, b'ezrat Hashem; because we know that this is not the way it's supposed to be.

May Am Yisrael be freed from its 2000-year lockdown soon in our days,
Have an easy fast!

Written by Rav Shais.

ETA: added social distancing thank you @ExGingi
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 31, 2020, 02:15:14 PM
Imagine it's the year 2033. Covid has changed America forever. People have not gathered in large groups for 13 years. All children go to school online. All parties are on Zoom. It has been this way for 13 years.

Now imagine that you're the parent of a bar-mitzvah boy. Your son has been preparing for a year to read the Torah to his friends and family over Zoom. The day arrives, you turn on Zoom, and he does his thing. Everyone is clapping and singing, congratulations are offered. Toasts are made. Your son, the bar mitzvah boy, is beaming. You've never seen him so happy. Nothing takes away from his joy on this day. And why shouldn't he jubilant? He has never known anything else.

He was raised in a Covid world, where everything is done online. He's been looking forward to his Zoom bar-mitzvah for years. This is how it's done. He has no memory of the world before Covid. But you, his parent, while proud and celebratory, find yourself hiding in the bathroom on this day, more than once, and quietly weeping for what once was. You cry not only because your son cannot have a 'normal' bar-mitzvah (your normal, not his), but also because your son does not even know that he is missing anything. So far removed is he from that reality, that he acts as if everything is as it should be; only you know that something is very wrong.

The tragedy of the day is not that your son cannot have a real bar mitzvah. The tragedy is that he doesn't even know what that is.

Guess what? We are that boy.

We were raised in the diaspora; we never had the Temple, the sacrifices, prophecy, the feeling of God's presence, never kept all the laws related to the land of Israel, etc. We go about our business as if this is Judaism, as if this is how it's supposed to be, as if this is how it's always been and how it always will be. But, the truth is, we've been in lockdown for 2000 years. For 2000 years our Judaism and our God has had to wear a mask. For 2000 years we have been socially distanced from Hashem. We are that happy bar-mitzvah boy who celebrates as if this is all there is; but, really, we have no idea what good is. We have no idea what God is.

Of course, I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point. We do know more than that boy in the story. Part of the genius of the Jewish people--and a key to our survival--is our memory.

We remember what we never even experienced. We even have memories of the future. (That's right! Through learning the Prophets, the future becomes a memory.) We have never become complacent. We have never forgotten that there is so much more than this.

How have we done this?

Through education, rituals, mitzvot, and through our prayers, which are filled with references to the Temple, the Redemption, and the yearning for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Am Yisrael is amazing. We've managed to live our lives in lockdown, but we never let ourselves accept lockdown. We never settled for lockdown. Every day we prayed for more. Every day we prayed for a return to normal. We rejoice. We make lavish bar-mitzvahs. But, always, in the midst of our joy, we remember Jerusalem. We never let ourselves forget that there is more than this. Only Am Yisrael can do this. Only Am Yisrael can dance in prison and still strive to get out of prison. We will do it, b'ezrat Hashem; because we know that this is not the way it's supposed to be.

May Am Yisrael be freed from its 2000-year lockdown soon in our days,
Have an easy fast!

Written by Rav Shais.

Beautiful.

Added some social distancing for readability.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on July 31, 2020, 06:13:04 PM
ETA: added social distancing thank you @ExGingi

Now that you've done that, whoever didn't see it before the edit might not understand what the SD is about.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on July 31, 2020, 06:20:10 PM
Now that you've done that, whoever didn't see it before the edit might not understand what the SD is about.
At least they won't have to read it twice ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 02, 2020, 03:57:03 PM
https://mobile.mako.co.il/health-illnesses-and-medicines/illnesses-the_novel_coronavirus/Article-33a257d3819a371026.htm

Hebrew article
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 02, 2020, 07:19:07 PM
https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on August 02, 2020, 09:38:57 PM
https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

Click bait

ď The one exception outside of the medical frontline has been on public transport, where masks are mandatory on the basis it is difficult to stay apart on crowded buses, ferries and trains.Ē

In other words, masks are useful when social distancing isnít possible. Sounds like the policy in many countries.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 02, 2020, 10:18:16 PM
Click bait

ď The one exception outside of the medical frontline has been on public transport, where masks are mandatory on the basis it is difficult to stay apart on crowded buses, ferries and trains.Ē

In other words, masks are useful when social distancing isnít possible. Sounds like the policy in many countries.
A far cry from the craziness and senseless mandates and fines we see elsewhere.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 02, 2020, 11:04:09 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-01/up-against-fierce-new-waves-nations-turn-to-sewage-and-drones?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on August 05, 2020, 02:41:14 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/08/05/the-peak-of-insensitivity-israeli-police-close-weddings-fine-choson-in-the-middle-of-his-wedding/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on August 05, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/08/05/the-peak-of-insensitivity-israeli-police-close-weddings-fine-choson-in-the-middle-of-his-wedding/

So, here is the flip side from Monsey. I have redacted the names of the chosson and kallah and their families, but I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to ask people to "respect" the simcha by not wearing a mask


(https://i.postimg.cc/j5613vqQ/mask-Redacted.png) (https://postimg.cc/623zyrvy)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: grodnoking on August 05, 2020, 03:07:57 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/08/05/the-peak-of-insensitivity-israeli-police-close-weddings-fine-choson-in-the-middle-of-his-wedding/
What did the police do wrong here?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 05, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
So, here is the flip side from Monsey. I have redacted the names of the chosson and kallah and their families, but I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to ask people to "respect" the simcha by not wearing a mask


(https://i.postimg.cc/j5613vqQ/mask-Redacted.png) (https://postimg.cc/623zyrvy)
I'm not sure what the problem is?..
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 05, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
I'm not sure what the problem is?..

Shocker.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 05, 2020, 03:13:36 PM
Shocker.
Your a real class act. Spoken like a true liberal. Be nasty and hateful for the sake of inclusion. Your personal attacks need to stop.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on August 05, 2020, 03:15:27 PM
So, here is the flip side from Monsey. I have redacted the names of the chosson and kallah and their families, but I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to ask people to "respect" the simcha by not wearing a mask


That's nuts. Besides, how is it offensive to the baalei simcha if someone wants to wear a mask?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on August 05, 2020, 03:16:39 PM
I'm not sure what the problem is?..

The problem is you are asking people to violate NY law as well potentially put their lives in danger, all in the name of "respecting the simcha."
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 05, 2020, 03:18:06 PM
Your a real class act. Spoken like a true liberal. Be nasty and hateful for the sake of inclusion. Your personal attacks need to stop.

I think it's funny you think I'm a liberal. And if you think "shocker" is a nasty, hateful, personal attack, you lose your right to call liberals snowflakes.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on August 05, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
That's nuts. Besides, how is it offensive to the baalei simcha if someone wants to wear a mask?

So my AC and I went to a different wedding yesterday that was supposed to be outdoors but had to be moved indoors due to the storm.

At the chuppah everyone was wearing a mask, other than the chosson and kallah and their immediate families. Even the mesader kiddushin wore a mask.

And the seats at the chuppah were spaced.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 05, 2020, 03:19:16 PM
The problem is you are asking people to violate NY law as well potentially put their lives in danger, all in the name of "respecting the simcha."
If you truly feel that way then don't go. I really don't get your point. I think people who think like that is precisely why they don't want at their Simcha ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on August 05, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Your a real class act. Spoken like a true liberal. Be nasty and hateful for the sake of inclusion. Your personal attacks need to stop.

If you truly feel that way then don't go. I really don't get your point. I think people who think like that is precisely why they don't want at their Simcha ;)

So when he labels you its a personal attack, but its OK for you to label me?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 05, 2020, 03:34:24 PM
So when he labels you its a personal attack, but its OK for you to label me?
I labeled you? I said people who truly feel that there is a threat at a wedding should not be going. Very simple.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moish on August 05, 2020, 03:53:18 PM
So, here is the flip side from Monsey. I have redacted the names of the chosson and kallah and their families, but I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to ask people to "respect" the simcha by not wearing a mask


(https://i.postimg.cc/j5613vqQ/mask-Redacted.png) (https://postimg.cc/623zyrvy)

I gotta ask, are they British?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on August 05, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
I labeled you? I said people who truly feel that there is a threat at a wedding should not be going. Very simple.
ę Last Edit: Today at 03:54:52 PM by yaakov35 Ľ

After you edit your original post to only say "people who truly feel that there is a threat at a wedding should not be going" then you won't have labeled me.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 05, 2020, 04:21:23 PM
What did the police do wrong here?

Why fine the Chosson (even if we assume that a fine is justified) fine the parents. There were questions raised as to weather the fine was justified, as there are claims that the event was in compliance. 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 05, 2020, 04:31:38 PM
So, here is the flip side from Monsey. I have redacted the names of the chosson and kallah and their families, but I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to ask people to "respect" the simcha by not wearing a mask


(https://i.postimg.cc/j5613vqQ/mask-Redacted.png) (https://postimg.cc/623zyrvy)






I can't figure out the major anxiety people suffer from seeing other people wearing a mask. I hope they get proper care for these issues.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 05, 2020, 04:48:54 PM
I labeled you? I said people who truly feel that there is a threat at a wedding should not be going. Very simple.

What about people who feel that the risk is manageable with a mask? Why does it have to be all or nothing?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 05, 2020, 04:54:53 PM
What about people who feel that the risk is manageable with a mask? Why does it have to be all or nothing?
Because these weddings have 3-400 people. Let's be honest mask isn't really helping in a scenario like that....
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 05, 2020, 04:58:58 PM
Because these weddings have 3-400 people. Let's be honest mask isn't really helping in a scenario like that....

But why does it bother them so much that they need to put on the invitation that wearing a mask disrespects their simche?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 05, 2020, 05:09:12 PM
Because these weddings have 3-400 people. Let's be honest mask isn't really helping in a scenario like that....

Debatable, especially for people who are coming in for 5-15 minutes to wish mazal tov, but this:

But why does it bother them so much that they need to put on the invitation that wearing a mask disrespects their simche?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: drosenberg88429 on August 05, 2020, 05:10:48 PM
So, here is the flip side from Monsey. I have redacted the names of the chosson and kallah and their families, but I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to ask people to "respect" the simcha by not wearing a mask


(https://i.postimg.cc/j5613vqQ/mask-Redacted.png) (https://postimg.cc/623zyrvy)

People say it's photoshopped and was never written. A parent of the Baal simcha was niftar from covid. Like a lot of the lashon hara on the internet, it's fake.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on August 05, 2020, 05:41:46 PM
People say it's photoshopped and was never written. A parent of the Baal simcha was niftar from covid. Like a lot of the lashon hara on the internet, it's fake.

I truly hope that you are right that it was photoshopped and that no one would ask people to attend without a mask.

The copy that was sent to me by whatspp had the names of the chosson & kallah and their families, but I removed them because I felt that it would be loshon hara to publicly identify them.

But if you are correct then I am very glad that I did remove the names.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 05, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
People say it's photoshopped and was never written. A parent of the Baal simcha was niftar from covid. Like a lot of the lashon hara on the internet, it's fake.

Yet some here are very ambivalent to such anxiety.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 05, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-05/the-curious-history-of-steam-heat-and-pandemics?srnd=premium

Reminds me of my days in Yeshiva. I needed to have the windows open in the winter just to be a little comfortable.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on August 06, 2020, 12:23:48 AM
Quote
Thereís a joke about immunology, which Jessica Metcalf of Princeton recently told me. An immunologist and a cardiologist are kidnapped. The kidnappers threaten to shoot one of them, but promise to spare whoever has made the greater contribution to humanity. The cardiologist says, ďWell, Iíve identified drugs that have saved the lives of millions of people.Ē Impressed, the kidnappers turn to the immunologist. ďWhat have you done?Ē they ask. The immunologist says, ďThe thing is, the immune system is very complicated ÖĒ And the cardiologist says, ďJust shoot me now.Ē

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moish on August 06, 2020, 03:05:06 PM
Because these weddings have 3-400 people. Let's be honest mask isn't really helping in a scenario like that....
Why not? That's the only thing helping in a scenario like that, assuming one is wearing an N95 type mask.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 06, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Why not? That's the only thing helping in a scenario like that, assuming one is wearing an N95 type mask.

Wasn't there something about N95 not necessarily being the most effective type of mask to prevent COVID-19 spread? @yuneeq
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on August 06, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
Wasn't there something about N95 not necessarily being the most effective type of mask to prevent COVID-19 spread? @yuneeq

Supposedly if it has a valve (which some N95ís have) it only blocks particles from being inhaled, but not from coming out.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 06, 2020, 04:58:24 PM
Supposedly if it has a valve (which some N95ís have) it only blocks particles from being inhaled, but not from coming out.

And isn't the protection offered by masks mainly about protecting other from droplets or aerosols being exhaled?

ETA: Just came across the following tweet:

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on August 06, 2020, 05:47:45 PM
And isn't the protection offered by masks mainly about protecting other from droplets or aerosols being exhaled?

For public use, correct. However even for healthcare professionals that use masks for personal protection, it still seems problematic.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 06, 2020, 06:13:25 PM
RWJ Hospital in New Brunswick, NJ has a sign disallowing masks with vents for visitors. No medical workers that I saw there had masks with vents either.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: moish on August 06, 2020, 08:29:49 PM
And isn't the protection offered by masks mainly about protecting other from droplets or aerosols being exhaled?

That would be the cloth masks, surgical masks etc

If one wore an N95 and got a good seal, the protection offered is obviously for oneself as well.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mtrasb on August 07, 2020, 05:41:20 PM
Animals notice something missing at the zoo - people

https://www.wsj.com/articles/animals-zoo-covid-closures-lockdown-pandemic-los-angeles-phoenix-11596827024
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 09, 2020, 01:11:59 PM
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.03.20167791v1
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on August 09, 2020, 01:14:52 PM
RWJ Hospital in New Brunswick, NJ has a sign disallowing masks with vents for visitors. No medical workers that I saw there had masks with vents either.

A new study compares 14 different types of masks for preventing droplet transmission, valved N95 masks are not nearly as bad as many of the masks that people are allowed to use.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLTFjtPL/D036-A93-C-58-B3-42-A5-87-B5-097-E8-EC3-F632.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 09, 2020, 01:41:08 PM
A new study compares 14 different types of masks for preventing droplet transmission, valved N95 masks are not nearly as bad as many of the masks that people are allowed to use.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083.full

(https://i.postimg.cc/VLTFjtPL/D036-A93-C-58-B3-42-A5-87-B5-097-E8-EC3-F632.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Quote
The enclosure (L x W x H: 30 cm ◊ 30 cm ◊ 35 cm)

What does any of this say about how meaningful this study is as it relates to real world experience?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 09, 2020, 09:23:49 PM
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buffalo/news/2020/07/24/cuomo--chicken-wings-not-substantive
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on August 09, 2020, 09:34:17 PM
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buffalo/news/2020/07/24/cuomo--chicken-wings-not-substantive
נתת דבריך לשיעורים
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on August 09, 2020, 09:52:03 PM
https://simpleflying.com/china-southern-unlimited-flight-pass/

Quote
The airlineís ďFly HappilyĒ pass, released Tuesday, allows customers to book as many flights as they want for 3,699 yuan ($528). The deal is valid between August 26th and January 6th.


Coming to an airline near you?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on August 09, 2020, 09:55:20 PM
https://simpleflying.com/china-southern-unlimited-flight-pass/
 

Coming to an airline near you?
Repost :)
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/8-5-20-news-roundup-covid-19-updates-united-232-survivors-guilt-hyatt-woes-can-fly-deals-el-al-meals-home-corona-cruises-hyatt-hana-clorox-wipes-lost-baggage/#Will_We_See_The_Return_Of_All_You_Can_Fly_Deals?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 09, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
נתת דבריך לשיעורים

That will ultimately happen when politicians are confronted with their senseless decrees.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 10, 2020, 11:06:15 AM
So... the CDC changed the current best estimate of the IFR to .65% (which is much more in line with reality) without telling anyone. Iím waiting to hear some breathless news reports in another couple of weeks about this ďbreaking newsĒ.

(They also assume that asymptomatic people are 75% as infectious as symptomatic people, and 50% of transmission occurs before symptoms appear).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#box

From what I'm seeing in FL, it seems the fatality rate is stabilized at roughly 1.5%. Given the amount of testing, I think the IFR should be ticking up a bit closer to 1%.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 10, 2020, 12:10:13 PM
From what I'm seeing in FL, it seems the fatality rate is stabilized at roughly 1.5%. Given the amount of testing, I think the IFR should be ticking up a bit closer to 1%.
How do you get those numbers? If you just divide cases by deaths 536k/8200 = .65% which is right in line with what the cdc said. And when the cases count was higher per day the deaths were still low.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 10, 2020, 01:45:40 PM
How do you get those numbers? If you just divide cases by deaths 536k/8200 = .65% which is right in line with what the cdc said. And when the cases count was higher per day the deaths were still low.

8,277 deaths divided by 561,393 cases is 1.47%, unless my calculator is broken. And the number holds up when using alternative methods to calculate the fatality rate, such as using a 14 or 21 day buffer to account for lagging death rates and only including cases and deaths from more recent periods to account for the early undercounting of cases.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on August 10, 2020, 04:56:39 PM
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/mgm-las-vegas-hotels-work-travel-package/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on August 10, 2020, 11:33:30 PM
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/mgm-las-vegas-hotels-work-travel-package/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/10/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-border.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

In theory the US ratified the ICCPR that requires it to always allow US Citizens in, however there is an exception for public health

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civil_and_Political_Rights#Liberty_and_security_of_person
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on August 13, 2020, 09:23:04 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/covid-19-death-rates-reveal-ny-and-nj-are-states-that-failed-the-test/amp/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 13, 2020, 09:51:13 AM
https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/covid-19-death-rates-reveal-ny-and-nj-are-states-that-failed-the-test/amp/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons&__twitter_impression=true

There is a very good case to be made about NY/NJ's failures and mismanagement with regards to the virus, but comparing their fatality rates to states that got hit months later does a disservice to those arguments.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 13, 2020, 11:23:46 AM
There is a very good case to be made about NY/NJ's failures and mismanagement with regards to the virus, but comparing their fatality rates to states that got hit months later does a disservice to those arguments.
The argument is 100% on point. It was around in europe for months, there was no reason that ny/nj didn't know how to handle it. Both governors were to arrogant to ask for help and too busy blaming trump to actually take any accountability. Not a single state looked at NY and said let's follow them they got a great handle on this.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 13, 2020, 11:29:02 AM
The argument is 100% on point. It was around in europe for months, there was no reason that ny/nj didn't know how to handle it. Both governors were to arrogant to ask for help and too busy blaming trump to actually take any accountability. Not a single state looked at NY and said let's follow them they got a great handle on this.

First, the article compares NY/NJ to other states, not Europe. Second, how many months was it in Europe before it got to NY/NJ? Third, how was the fatality rate in Europe during that time in comparison to NY/NJ?

Again, "there is a very good case to be made about NY/NJ's failures and mismanagement." Comparing fatality rates from March through May against states that spiked in June through August doesn't help that argument. The science and treatments are lightyears ahead of where they were back then.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 13, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
First, the article compares NY/NJ to other states, not Europe. Second, how many months was it in Europe before it got to NY/NJ? Third, how was the fatality rate in Europe during that time in comparison to NY/NJ?

Again, "there is a very good case to be made about NY/NJ's failures and mismanagement." Comparing fatality rates from March through May against states that spiked in June through August doesn't help that argument. The science and treatments are lightyears ahead of where they were back then.
Okay, but what about other states which had it then such as CA?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 13, 2020, 11:42:36 AM
Okay, but what about other states which had it then such as CA?

There are a number of differences between CA and NY/NJ, the most important being that they had different strains of the virus. The strain that hit California is thought to be less fatal. CA also closed everything very early and had much less spread than NY/NJ, so their hospitals never saw the same pressure. Another difference, and IMO a very big one, is weather. If the theory about the correlation of weather and indoor spread is correct, then the circumstances on the ground in CA are not remotely comparable to NY/NJ in March and April, and therefore the reactions cannot be compared.

Once again: NY screwed up. NJ screwed up. No debate. But you will have a hard time making a fair comparison of situations with a multitude of differing variables.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on August 13, 2020, 03:03:57 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/media/amc-reopening-ticket-prices/index.html

AMC is reopening its theaters next week with 15-cent tickets
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 13, 2020, 03:50:57 PM
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-08-13-20-intl/h_e18c953da1c7e03b79f3e2470cf32005

Brilliant or stupid, depending on how you look at it. By making this a Biden vs Trump issue, they can make Trump look very bad, but also virtually guarantee that there will be no mask mandate, to the detriment of our collective health.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 13, 2020, 07:38:36 PM
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-08-13-20-intl/h_e18c953da1c7e03b79f3e2470cf32005

Brilliant or stupid, depending on how you look at it. By making this a Biden vs Trump issue, they can make Trump look very bad, but also virtually guarantee that there will be no mask mandate, to the detriment of our collective health.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-hits-biden-national-mask-mandate
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on August 13, 2020, 11:50:39 PM
Is the treatment worse than the illness among younger age groups?
https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/1-in-4-young-adults-in-the-us-contemplated-suicide-during-pandemic/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 14, 2020, 01:24:26 PM
TLDR but looks interesting

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/hydroxychloroquine-morality-tale
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 14, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
TLDR but looks interesting

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/hydroxychloroquine-morality-tale

Indeed TL! Indeed interesting!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 16, 2020, 12:50:53 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-13/covid-spread-is-forcing-scientists-to-rethink-herd-immunity

Mostly based on this
https://covid19-projections.com/estimating-true-infections/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 16, 2020, 01:55:03 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/vaping-makes-teens-up-to-7-times-more-likely-to-catch-covid-19-study-2020-08-12
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on August 17, 2020, 12:34:57 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/vaping-makes-teens-up-to-7-times-more-likely-to-catch-covid-19-study-2020-08-12
Teens more likely then adults, or smokers more likely then non smokers?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on August 18, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/nyregion/uws-homeless-hotels-nyc.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 19, 2020, 01:29:10 PM
In the not good news category:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/fda-pauses-emergency-authorization-blood-plasma-coronavirus-treatment-report
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Essen est zich on August 20, 2020, 07:18:32 PM
https://anash.org/beis-din-issues-stern-warning-to-crown-heights-visitors/

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on August 20, 2020, 09:49:19 PM
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2020/08/20/data-florida-texas-california-flattened-the-curve-new-york-and-new-jersey-did-not-n2574582
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on August 21, 2020, 09:54:14 AM
In the not good news category:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/fda-pauses-emergency-authorization-blood-plasma-coronavirus-treatment-report

The political interference into this pandemic is unconscionable. It started with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine which still today we do not know the truth about.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on August 23, 2020, 08:21:22 PM
https://blog.youtube/culture-and-trends/how-youtube-trends-reveal-impact-covid-19/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on August 23, 2020, 08:37:27 PM
https://news.trust.org/item/20200823164934-pzroc
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 24, 2020, 09:14:55 PM
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/08/24/905534790/german-experiment-tests-how-coronavirus-spreads-at-a-concert
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on August 26, 2020, 09:27:26 PM
Great News! - Cross post


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/abbotts-fast-5-15-minute-easy-to-use-covid-19-antigen-test-receives-fda-emergency-use-authorization-mobile-app-displays-test-results-to-help-our-return-to-daily-life-ramping-production-to-50-million-tests-a-month-301119289.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 27, 2020, 08:52:47 AM
https://time.com/5883081/covid-19-transmitted-aerosols/?amp=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 27, 2020, 10:14:25 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lefts-covid-memory-hole-11598483473
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 28, 2020, 05:39:41 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53932294
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ari3 on August 29, 2020, 11:18:34 PM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08/29/nation/how-an-intimate-wedding-rural-maine-led-states-largest-covid-outbreak-disaster-that-spread-hundreds-miles/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on August 30, 2020, 02:52:34 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/08/us-department-of-justice-requests-data-from-governor-murphy.html
(Short.)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on August 30, 2020, 09:56:23 AM
https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-and-mask-mandates-do-not-lead-to-reduced-covid-transmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on August 30, 2020, 01:33:46 PM
https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-and-mask-mandates-do-not-lead-to-reduced-covid-transmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Interesting. Here (https://www.aier.org/article/what-does-the-growing-number-of-coronavirus-cases-really-mean/) is an article by that author from March where he posits that the death rate is likely lower than that of the seasonal flu.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on August 30, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html#click=https://t.co/t7hW9gzTgy

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on August 30, 2020, 01:56:33 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html#click=https://t.co/t7hW9gzTgy
Maybe that's why they want "testing testing testing" to keep the lockdowns for no good reason
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on August 31, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
https://www.pennlive.com/crime/2020/08/pa-mayor-who-banned-indoor-dining-caught-dining-inside-in-maryland-chefs-are-roasting-him.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 31, 2020, 01:40:44 PM
https://www.pennlive.com/crime/2020/08/pa-mayor-who-banned-indoor-dining-caught-dining-inside-in-maryland-chefs-are-roasting-him.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

And the you have this:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/31/de-blasio-hints-indoor-dining-wont-return-until-covid-19-vaccine/

These guys are nuts!!! I've been saying for months that it's not realistic to remain shut until there's a vaccine. This is tyranny!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on August 31, 2020, 01:45:10 PM
And the you have this:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/31/de-blasio-hints-indoor-dining-wont-return-until-covid-19-vaccine/

These guys are nuts!!! I've been saying for months that it's not realistic to remain shut until there's a vaccine. This is tyranny!
Cool to see so many ppl scream for a long time shut everything down [don't mean you] or at least shut this and this down until it hurts them.

Its time for ppl to understand what freedom means. Vote with mind not feeling.

In most states they handled this 1mil. Times better then our dear....
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 31, 2020, 02:26:33 PM
Cool to see so many ppl scream for a long time shut everything down [don't mean you] or at least shut this and this down until it hurts them.

Its time for ppl to understand what freedom means. Vote with mind not feeling.

In most states they handled this 1mil. Times better then our dear....

Here's a simple recipe:

Ban any discussion, mention, hint, or hope of a vaccine from any policy move. Now decide policy.

In other words act as though the vaccine is ס.ס.ס.ר (ס'איז ניט געווען, ס'איז ניטא, ס'וועט ניט זיין, רעד זיך נישט איין)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on August 31, 2020, 02:31:43 PM
Here's a simple recipe:

Ban any discussion, mention, hint, or hope of a vaccine from any policy move. Now decide policy.
Or say Data / Science without actually mentioning a single data point that can back up a claim.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: 4yourinfo on August 31, 2020, 04:31:29 PM
https://matzav.com/exposing-the-lies-weve-been-told-about-covid-shutting-shuls-supposed-upticks-and-more/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 31, 2020, 04:35:54 PM
https://matzav.com/exposing-the-lies-weve-been-told-about-covid-shutting-shuls-supposed-upticks-and-more/
The formatting is messed up. Does anyone have the original letter?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 31, 2020, 04:36:37 PM
https://matzav.com/exposing-the-lies-weve-been-told-about-covid-shutting-shuls-supposed-upticks-and-more/
I canít believe that Matzav post this unreadable anti-rabbonim creed (that was all I was able to figure out from what he wrote). VILE!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: 4yourinfo on August 31, 2020, 04:37:53 PM
I canít believe that Matzav post this unreadable anti-rabbonim creed (that was all I was able to figure out from what he wrote). VILE!
 
You read it too fast - it's not anti rabonim
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 31, 2020, 04:50:29 PM
The formatting is messed up. Does anyone have the original letter?
+1, and its wayyyy to long.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 31, 2020, 04:51:56 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/08/31/94-of-americans-who-died-from-covid-19-had-contributing-conditions/
Definitely not a full picture, interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on August 31, 2020, 04:58:16 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/08/31/94-of-americans-who-died-from-covid-19-had-contributing-conditions/
Definitely not a full picture, interesting nonetheless.
Oh my gosh, they had pneumonia and respiratory failure in addition to COVID! INSANE!!!
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 31, 2020, 05:09:14 PM
https://matzav.com/exposing-the-lies-weve-been-told-about-covid-shutting-shuls-supposed-upticks-and-more/

Quote
Key Takeaways

● The Rabbonim were presented with a false metzius hadevorim leading to decrees that harmed the people spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically.

● There is no grounds in Torah, science or medicine for the decrees against Judaism and normal human interaction and destruction of livelihoods. It must be rejected. Every human is essential and all efforts to make a living are essential.

● The selection of people as essential and non-essential is a decree with deadly consequences and implications, right now.

● The planned Second Wave is being used to implement greater and far more destructive decrees, Chas VíShalom.

● It is false to claim that a halachic ruling can be made while only taking into account one factor and ignoring all other effects of the ruling.

● The public health ideology has co-opted the words of Torah to present itself as the fulfillment of the highest ideals of Judaism, when, in fact, it has replaced Torah, rachmana lítzlan.

● Only independent health, not health authorities. No health/medical compulsion.

● The non-Jews are suffering greatly also and are our allies, as are the police and health department officials who do not want to become the enforcers of these decrees.

● The Task Force and Medical Committee have no authority and must be dismantled.

● The sakana nafashos from an all-powerful government is many orders of magnitude more deadly than the most deadly virus.

● The people must take immediate and courageous action to preserve their childrenís chinuch al taharas hakodesh, protect their shuls from further disgrace, ensure that the in-person study of Torah continues uninterrupted and preserve taharas hamisphacha by building multiple independent mikvaos.

ETA: does anyone know anything about the author? Quick search just pulled up an article from 2011 about gun control being the greatest threat to Jews and America.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on August 31, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
ETA: does anyone know anything about the author? Quick search just pulled up an article from 2011 about gun control being the greatest threat to Jews and America.
Would not be surprised if he is an anti-vaxer. One would hope that the people that read it have some intelligence.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 31, 2020, 05:52:13 PM
ETA: does anyone know anything about the author? Quick search just pulled up an article from 2011 about gun control being the greatest threat to Jews and America.
E. David Smith. He's a lawyer.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on August 31, 2020, 05:53:23 PM
E. David Smith. He's a lawyer.

So is Harvey Levin.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 31, 2020, 05:54:18 PM
So is Harvey Levin.
Lol - I meant his profession is law.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 31, 2020, 05:54:34 PM
E. David Smith. He's a lawyer.
Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Smith
Passaic Park, New Jersey
(973) 771Ė6503
PassaicClarity@gmail.com
Says this on the page.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 31, 2020, 05:55:25 PM
Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Smith
Passaic Park, New Jersey
(973) 771Ė6503
PassaicClarity@gmail.com
Says this on the page.
Everyone in Lakewood is also a rabbi. Point is he's not part of "rabbonim".
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 31, 2020, 07:17:39 PM
The formatting is messed up. Does anyone have the original letter?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on August 31, 2020, 08:33:59 PM

Even if one is on DDF all day I canít imagine anybody bored enough to read this
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on August 31, 2020, 08:44:41 PM
Even if one is on DDF all day I canít imagine anybody bored enough to read this

Nominated to the hall of fame of Great DDF one-liners.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on August 31, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
ETA: does anyone know anything about the author? Quick search just pulled up an article from 2011 about gun control being the greatest threat to Jews and America.
And all of the rabbonim are just too naive to figureout what he did and how this is just one big huge conspiracy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on August 31, 2020, 10:45:30 PM
And all of the rabbonim are just too naive to figureout what he did and how this is just one big huge conspiracy.
Speaking of rabbonim, R' Elya Brudny is a must watch on this. He spoke last night at Agudah/Relief virtual event. Talked about Covid, masks, and following rules.


https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=122748
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on August 31, 2020, 11:23:06 PM
Speaking of rabbonim, R' Elya Brudny is a must watch on this. He spoke last night at Agudah/Relief virtual event. Talked about Covid, masks, and following rules.


https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=122748
Thanks for the link. Didn't watch the whole thing, but what I heard was excellent
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on August 31, 2020, 11:38:09 PM
Speaking of rabbonim, R' Elya Brudny is a must watch on this. He spoke last night at Agudah/Relief virtual event. Talked about Covid, masks, and following rules.


https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=122748

He emphasized strongly that the impression we have to give our children is that as part of a civic society we follow rules. We are mask wearers and rule followers, only we make exception when it is not practical or feasible to follow the governments regulations to the point of crossing every T and dotting every I. But to give the impression to our kids (and ourselves) that we lichatchila donít follow the governments rules and we are not mask wearers is wrong.

I personally find this difficult,  particularly in light of the capricious and arbitrary manner in which the government is drafting and enforcing said rules, but Rav Elya Brudny is not someone to be taken lightly....
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on August 31, 2020, 11:40:55 PM
He emphasized strongly that the impression we have to give our children is that as part of a civic society we follow rules. We are mask wearers and rule followers, only we make exception when it is not practical or feasible to follow the governments regulations to the point of crossing every T and dotting every I. But to give the impression to our kids (and ourselves) that we lichatchila donít follow the governments rules and we are not mask wearers is wrong.

I personally find this difficult,  particularly in light of the capricious and arbitrary manner in which the government is drafting and enforcing said rules, but Rav Elya Brudny is not someone to be taken lightly....
All you have to do is look at other places outside the loony bins of NY/NJ government. Ohio, for example, is basically fully open since may/June, and still has a mask mandate.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on August 31, 2020, 11:51:19 PM
All you have to do is look at other places outside the loony bins of NY/NJ government. Ohio, for example, is basically fully open since may/June, and still has a mask mandate.
Issue really is, that there is no game plane and no end in sight. Masks in the US are not really worn by anyone important so it just gives off mixed vibes. If there was a legitimate game plan I think people would he much more apt to following. The fact that the rules don't apply to anyone in government etc.. just shows its one big joke. Which it is. I t was stay home save lives, people died alone, families couldn't see loved ones, people sick in hospitals alone. All of a sudden that changed with the blm stuff which showed it truly was a joke, and fast forward a few months with no leadership or no direction and welcome to ny sept 2020, 7 months into a pandemic with no game plan.
Atleast fed government has a plan, move on with life and get everyone jobs, local governments don't even have that.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on September 01, 2020, 12:08:02 AM
Issue really is, that there is no game plane and no end in sight. Masks in the US are not really worn by anyone important so it just gives off mixed vibes. If there was a legitimate game plan I think people would he much more apt to following. The fact that the rules don't apply to anyone in government etc.. just shows its one big joke. Which it is. I t was stay home save lives, people died alone, families couldn't see loved ones, people sick in hospitals alone. All of a sudden that changed with the blm stuff which showed it truly was a joke, and fast forward a few months with no leadership or no direction and welcome to ny sept 2020, 7 months into a pandemic with no game plan.
Atleast fed government has a plan, move on with life and get everyone jobs, local governments don't even have that.
That was my point. You are correct in NY/NJ, but in other places, there was a sensible reopening. Like I mentioned, Ohio had a staggered reopening startimg in may, and by mid June or so, everything reopened. However, they still require masks. To me, this shows seichel. If you are in NY, you just have to be able to use your seichel, and separate the chaff from the grain. Something like masks, basic social distancing, and keeping parties (weddings, Kiddush, etc) small and outdoors is just common sense.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on September 01, 2020, 12:15:54 AM
That was my point. You are correct in NY/NJ, but in other places, there was a sensible reopening. Like I mentioned, Ohio had a staggered reopening startimg in may, and by mid June or so, everything reopened. However, they still require masks. To me, this shows seichel.
Benefits of living in a moderate republican state, most things are done with seichel, from COVID reopening to school choice in failing school districts. Plus your vote actually counts.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 01, 2020, 12:31:40 AM


That was my point. You are correct in NY/NJ, but in other places, there was a sensible reopening. Like I mentioned, Ohio had a staggered reopening startimg in may, and by mid June or so, everything reopened. However, they still require masks. To me, this shows seichel. If you are in NY, you just have to be able to use your seichel, and separate the chaff from the grain. Something like masks, basic social distancing, and keeping parties (weddings, Kiddush, etc) small and outdoors is just common sense.

Your 100% correct, but if you look at the way things are done in ny/nj it makes sense why the frum community doesn't oblige so much.  But that's how it happened and where we are now...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 01, 2020, 08:12:11 AM

Your 100% correct, but if you look at the way things are done in ny/nj it makes sense why the frum community doesn't oblige so much.  But that's how it happened and where we are now...
I'm sorry but I expect our community to be better than saying ignore everything because Deblasio and Coumo are clowns. I am saddened that you have such low expectations of our community.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on September 01, 2020, 08:28:34 AM
I'm sorry but I expect our community to be better than saying ignore everything because Deblasio and Coumo are clowns. I am saddened that you have such low expectations of our community.
+
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on September 01, 2020, 08:29:35 AM
Especially when you have mainstream doctors now saying to wear masks. Will anything now change?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on September 01, 2020, 08:52:29 AM
Especially when you have mainstream doctors now saying to wear masks. Will anything now change?
No
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 01, 2020, 09:11:50 AM
Especially when you have mainstream doctors now saying to wear masks. Will anything now change?
No

Unfortunately, not until we start collecting for the first yesomim. Cases start increasing? Eh, it's not so bad, most of us already had it, it'll be fine. The first deaths get announced? Oy, it's sad, but they were old, they were sick, they should have been more careful, but for the rest of us, it's really unnecessary. Someone young enough to leave yesomim dies? Ok, nu, I'm going to be fine, but maybe we should wear masks. You know, my uncle, my brother-in-law, my niece... this one is overweight, high cholesterol, diabetes, asthma.

The frum community does amazing things. When things go south, no other people can mobilize like we do. Even just this year, the blood drives, the food drives, the tzedaka campaigns, the Pesach help, the financial resources and guidance - mi k'amcha Yisroel! Preventative measures... not so much. There's a reason it says Chacham einav b'roishoi. If seeing into the future and taking proactive measures was regular human nature, we wouldn't be promoting such people as chachamim.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 01, 2020, 09:36:53 AM
Issue really is, that there is no game plane and no end in sight. Masks in the US are not really worn by anyone important so it just gives off mixed vibes. If there was a legitimate game plan I think people would he much more apt to following. The fact that the rules don't apply to anyone in government etc.. just shows its one big joke. Which it is. I t was stay home save lives, people died alone, families couldn't see loved ones, people sick in hospitals alone. All of a sudden that changed with the blm stuff which showed it truly was a joke, and fast forward a few months with no leadership or no direction and welcome to ny sept 2020, 7 months into a pandemic with no game plan.
Atleast fed government has a plan, move on with life and get everyone jobs, local governments don't even have that.
You mean like the mayor of Philadelphia who banned indoor dining in his city because it was too dangerous, decimating the restaurant industry, but was caught in a restaurant across the border in Maryland eating indoors with no mask and no social distancing?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEiOJsPjtq1/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 01, 2020, 10:00:10 AM
You mean like the mayor of Philadelphia who banned indoor dining in his city because it was too dangerous, decimating the restaurant industry, but was caught in a restaurant across the border in Maryland eating indoors with no mask and no social distancing?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEiOJsPjtq1/

Never in my life have I seen the frum community look at elected officials with such reverence! When Spitzer was playing with his women, that gave us a free pass to follow his lead? Since when are politicians our role models???
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 01, 2020, 10:05:29 AM
Never in my life have I seen the frum community look at elected officials with such reverence! When Spitzer was playing with his women, that gave us a free pass to follow his lead? Since when are politicians our role models???
Itís a bit different. Itís not a universally accepted fact that restaurant dining is unsafe in any form. The vast majority of locales allow some form of indoor dining. He is the one who declared it too dangerous to allow.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 01, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Itís a bit different. Itís not a universally accepted fact that restaurant dining is unsafe in any form. The vast majority of locales allow some form of indoor dining. He is the one who declared it too dangerous to allow.
But the fact that mask wearing lowers transmission *is* a universally accepted fact by all doctors in all places yet frum people in NY/NJ are running around convinced itís debatable and they probably donít even work, with some believing that most doctors donít even agree with it.

Iíve heard the most mind-blowing opinions. Last night I overheard someone explaining heatedly how masks are stupid, because youíre just inhaling carbon dioxide instead which is more dangerous than COVID. I know most donít have a full general education but maybe the schools could arrange a crash course in science to explain a few basic concepts that some seem to have trouble with?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 01, 2020, 12:26:03 PM

Iíve heard the most mind-blowing opinions. Last night I overheard someone explaining heatedly how masks are stupid, because youíre just inhaling carbon dioxide instead which is more dangerous than COVID. I know most donít have a full general education but maybe the schools could arrange a crash course in science to explain a few basic concepts that some seem to have trouble with?

To be fair, seems like he releases an inordinate amount of hot air.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 01, 2020, 06:16:02 PM
But the fact that mask wearing lowers transmission *is* a universally accepted fact by all doctors in all places yet frum people in NY/NJ are running around convinced itís debatable and they probably donít even work, with some believing that most doctors donít even agree with it.

Iíve heard the most mind-blowing opinions. Last night I overheard someone explaining heatedly how masks are stupid, because youíre just inhaling carbon dioxide instead which is more dangerous than COVID. I know most donít have a full general education but maybe the schools could arrange a crash course in science to explain a few basic concepts that some seem to have trouble with?
Iíve heard similar quoted from someone quite significant in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 01, 2020, 09:56:38 PM
Iíve heard similar quoted from someone quite significant in Lakewood.
Unreal. How removed are these people from any medical opinions whatsoever? Can't they just PUTPAC someone?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on September 02, 2020, 04:56:34 AM
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2252699-covid-19-is-becoming-less-deadly-in-europe-but-we-dont-know-why/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 02, 2020, 09:16:20 AM
Iíve heard similar quoted from someone quite significant in Lakewood.
Is it one of the significant anti-vaxxers?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 02, 2020, 09:37:41 AM
Is it one of the significant anti-vaxxers?
Along with the claim that no one died from covid; they were all killed by the doctors and hospitals.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 02, 2020, 09:59:06 AM
Along with the claim that no one died from covid; they were all killed by the doctors and hospitals.
Is that a yes?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 02, 2020, 10:37:10 AM
Yes would mean I heard it first person
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 02, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
I know for a fact that someone in the family of hugely influential person in town who's an anti vaxxer had a severe case of Covid in April (hatzolah was needed multiple times). Hope it's not the same person who's saying these things.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 02, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
I know for a fact that someone in the family of hugely influential person in town who's an anti vaxxer had a severe case of Covid in April (hatzolah was needed multiple times). Hope it's not the same person who's saying these things.
+1 on this, but perhaps someone else (not likely)

About the individual I am referring to, I was told that he is very concerned about the current uptick and believes it is a serious issue. Likely largely for fear of a shutdown as well. He also had the virus in March and therefore had a minyan when they were banned, but did not allow anyone who wasnít previously infected to daven with him
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 02, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
I know for a fact that someone in the family of hugely influential person in town who's an anti vaxxer had a severe case of Covid in April (hatzolah was needed multiple times). Hope it's not the same person who's saying these things.
He is convinced that the others would have survived as he did had the doctors and hospitals not killed them...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 02, 2020, 12:13:10 PM
He is convinced that the others would have survived as he did had the doctors and hospitals not killed them...
Just this statement alone is ridiculous on the face of it. If he needed Hatzolah multiple times then it totally makes sense that some will succumb. Just that they needed to be hospitalized and he did not demonstrates this.
Title: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 02, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
He is convinced that the others would have survived as he did had the doctors and hospitals not killed them...
Not everyone is privileged enough to have doctors and hatzolah waiting on them hand and foot at their home.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 02, 2020, 12:24:23 PM
+1 on this, but perhaps someone else (not likely)

About the individual I am referring to, I was told that he is very concerned about the current uptick and believes it is a serious issue. Likely largely for fear of a shutdown as well. He also had the virus in March and therefore had a minyan when they were banned, but did not allow anyone who wasnít previously infected to daven with him
He is convinced that the others would have survived as he did had the doctors and hospitals not killed them...
Apparently Iím wrong, and he does indeed feel that way. @Yard sale you have heard him say this directly?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 02, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Just this statement alone is ridiculous on the face of it. If he needed Hatzolah multiple times then it totally makes sense that some will succumb. Just that they needed to be hospitalized and he did not demonstrates this.
I hope he's not basing this on his personal experience.

He's in a very unique and privileged position which affords him the ability to have hatzolah and doctors at his beck and call. 

The hospitals were obviously overwhelmed (e.g. R' Jacobs was transferred back home because of level of care), however your average Chaim Yankel doesn't have the ability to pick up the phone and call a doctor to come down to treat him.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 02, 2020, 01:36:00 PM
Apparently Iím wrong, and he does indeed feel that way. @Yard sale you have heard him say this directly?
No I did not. Askanim who supposedly spoke to him. Ask him if you want to verify his Shita.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 02, 2020, 08:40:23 PM
I hope he's not basing this on his personal experience.

He's in a very unique and privileged position which affords him the ability to have hatzolah and doctors at his beck and call. 

The hospitals were obviously overwhelmed (e.g. R' Jacobs was transferred back home because of level of care), however your average Chaim Yankel doesn't have the ability to pick up the phone and call a doctor to come down to treat him.
Also, the fact that he did not die (yet had a brush) does not mean nobody will die. Even if he had it as bad as anyone else. Thatís lunacy.

Hereís another proof: He wasnít treated with hydroxychloroquine, yet survived. Others were treated with HCQ, and died. Therefore, HCQ kills people.

Thatís actually the literal inverse logic people are using to ďproveĒ HCQ woks.

Disclaimer: I do not profess to know whether it works or not, Iím just amazed at peopleís logical pretzels.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 04, 2020, 01:05:22 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/03/south-dakota-covid-19-sturgis-rally-state-fair-kristi-noem/5709042002/
We truly have a messed up media and they need to be be shut down. 100s of thousands of new cases from blm riots and not a word. 300 cases in a red state from a motor cycle really and its a surge, what a sick twisted world.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 04, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
100s of thousands of new cases from blm riots


It makes sense that it should be, but where did you get such numbers from?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 04, 2020, 02:27:06 PM
It makes sense that it should be, but where did you get such numbers from?
Over the half the states in the US had a surge afterwards.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 04, 2020, 02:33:26 PM
Over the half the states in the US had a surge afterwards.
Do you have any data connecting it to the protests or even that they happened in the same places as the protests?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 04, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
Do you have any data connecting it to the protests or even that they happened in the same places as the protests?
Some kind of a joke? Data to prove that millions were out on the streets and then subsequently there were surges all over the country?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 04, 2020, 03:38:37 PM
Some kind of a joke? Data to prove that millions were out on the streets and then subsequently there were surges all over the country?
Got stuck on the first half of the question?

FTR, I fully agree that it is a likely contributor. I was just wondering if there is any clear data. It seems like not. Also not sure where you got the number itself from.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on September 05, 2020, 10:26:15 PM
https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2020/09/05/an-austin-doctor-got-a-covid-19-test-from-his-own-company-they-billed-his-insurance-company-nearly-11000/?outputType=amp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on September 05, 2020, 11:52:27 PM
Got stuck on the first half of the question?

FTR, I fully agree that it is a likely contributor. I was just wondering if there is any clear data. It seems like not. Also not sure where you got the number itself from.
Itís not because our brilliant  contact tracers were told not to ask anyone if they were at protests
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on September 06, 2020, 02:28:12 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/expert-says-coronavirus-as-dangerous-22614708.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on September 06, 2020, 05:01:02 PM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/expert-says-coronavirus-as-dangerous-22614708.amp?__twitter_impression=true
You have a 1 in 2 million chance of dying when you take a bath? It's amazing the human race still exists!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on September 07, 2020, 10:15:01 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/09/06/family-letters-1918-flu-coronavirus-pandemic/

Do you think in 100 years from now they won't remember much about 2020?

Will it be different this time because of the internet? Or because we're not in middle of WWI?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on September 07, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
And then there's the opposite end (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=119171.0) of the spectrum -

https://www.newsweek.com/allegiant-air-removes-man-disrupting-flight-after-he-allegedly-asked-flight-attendant-wear-face-1530117
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on September 07, 2020, 08:04:23 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/its-now-looking-like-the-lockdowns-may-have-been-a-huge-mistake/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on September 08, 2020, 08:52:55 PM
https://abc7ny.com/education/district-suspends-student-for-attending-in-person-classes-on-remote-day/6414358/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on September 08, 2020, 09:46:55 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/08/phil-murphy-powerful-governor-america-409522
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 09, 2020, 03:34:41 PM
Do you think in 100 years from now they won't remember much about 2020?

The 1918 flu killed 20-100 million in a span of one flu season, close to 1 million in the US. COVID deaths are close to 1 million worldwide. The hardest hit in 1918 were the most robust in society rather than the most vulnerable. It also decimated some families and some towns, with 90% of the population dying in some Eskimo towns in Alaska for instance and leaving behind hundreds of thousands of orphans in the US. They barely had a chance to react to it before it was gone. The sheer shock of it all pushed society to just move on once it passed, without it causing any significant change in how society functioned afterwards. I think they will remember COVID for a very long time, particularly due to its relatively slow worldwide spread, which has caused reactions that have resulted in a complete upheaval of society and the economy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on September 09, 2020, 04:54:42 PM
The 1918 flu killed 20-100 million in a span of one flu season, close to 1 million in the US. COVID deaths are close to 1 million worldwide. The hardest hit in 1918 were the most robust in society rather than the most vulnerable. It also decimated some families and some towns, with 90% of the population dying in some Eskimo towns in Alaska for instance and leaving behind hundreds of thousands of orphans in the US. They barely had a chance to react to it before it was gone. The sheer shock of it all pushed society to just move on once it passed, without it causing any significant change in how society functioned afterwards. I think they will remember COVID for a very long time, particularly due to its relatively slow worldwide spread, which has caused reactions that have resulted in a complete upheaval of society and the economy.
It was not one flu season, there were several waves over at least 2 years.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 09, 2020, 05:47:00 PM
It was not one flu season, there were several waves over at least 2 years.

The first one was mild - a typical flu season, with about average deaths but very disruptive to the war effort. That was Spring 1918. Fall 1918 is when it returned in its deadly form. The third wave in early 1919 was very deadly but not as bad as the second wave. In early 1920 the fourth wave was also deadly but smaller in scale and much less widespread geographically.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on September 09, 2020, 06:54:05 PM
The first one was mild - a typical flu season, with about average deaths but very disruptive to the war effort. That was Spring 1918. Fall 1918 is when it returned in its deadly form. The third wave in early 1919 was very deadly but not as bad as the second wave. In early 1920 the fourth wave was also deadly but smaller in scale and much less widespread geographically.
OK?
You said it was one flu season. It was not.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 09, 2020, 07:30:30 PM
OK?
You said it was one flu season. It was not.

I donít think we are saying anything different. When people refer to the 1918 Flu, they are referring to the one that caused widespread death. That was Fall 1918 and Winter 1919, the 2nd and 3rd wave. A flu season is usually a Fall through early Spring time period. The last wave only affected isolated areas worldwide and most of the world had moved on long before and wasnít impacted by it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 10, 2020, 02:27:50 PM
The 1918 flu killed 20-100 million
One of the most useless statistics commonly quoted.

The current coronavirus has killed between 2 dozen and 500 million people worldwide.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on September 10, 2020, 02:34:39 PM
50% of the people in the world are of below average intelligence
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 10, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
50% of the people in the world are of average or below average intelligence
FTFY

There are probably many people at the 50% marker
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 10, 2020, 03:17:28 PM
One of the most useless statistics commonly quoted.

The current coronavirus has killed between 2 dozen and 500 million people worldwide.

Some say 20-50 million, Gina Kolata in Flu writes 50-100 million. 50 million would be approximately 3% of the world population. They say India had 12-20 million deaths in Fall 1918, which is an unfathomable number. Back then there were many parts of the world that did not have a population census, so the estimates are varied. If the current coronavirus was reported in the same way, with the present day record keeping, it would in fact be useless.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on September 13, 2020, 04:47:29 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/packed-prayers-at-chabad-headquarters-raise-virus-alarm/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 14, 2020, 01:11:56 AM
https://medium.com/@asit.mishra76pi/making-your-own-covid19-masks-a-few-pointers-b2f66072f9f3
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 14, 2020, 01:22:56 AM
https://www.vox.com/21296067/coronavirus-covid-symptoms-superspreaders-superspreading-contagious-bars-restaurants
Quote
  The research suggests that people carrying this virus are potentially infectious for about two and a half days ó and rise to a ďmoderate probability of transmission per contactĒ for ďless than half a day,Ē the researchers write
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 14, 2020, 12:22:16 PM
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/07/418181/one-more-reason-wear-mask-youll-get-less-sick-covid-19
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 14, 2020, 12:41:40 PM
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/07/418181/one-more-reason-wear-mask-youll-get-less-sick-covid-19
Chocolate ice cream was on sale during last round of infections, so Chocolate ice cream= less sick with covid.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 14, 2020, 12:44:57 PM
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/07/418181/one-more-reason-wear-mask-youll-get-less-sick-covid-19

Study published about 6 weeks ago:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 14, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
Chocolate ice cream was on sale during last round of infections, so Chocolate ice cream= less sick with covid.

I don't believe I've ever met anyone who is as full of sh!t as you are. Do you eat anything special?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 14, 2020, 01:04:00 PM
I don't believe I've ever met anyone who is as full of sh!t as you are. Do you eat anything special?
Nice to meet you too.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 14, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
Question:
Do you eat anything special?

Answer:
Chocolate ice cream
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 14, 2020, 02:59:53 PM
I don't believe I've ever met anyone who is as full of sh!t as you are. Do you eat anything special?
I suspect he does it on purpose.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: justaregularguy on September 14, 2020, 08:29:37 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/university-pittsburgh-antibody-neutralizes-coronavirus

hmmm...whats this?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 15, 2020, 11:42:02 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/ingraham-federal-judge-ruling-pennsylvania-lockdown-unconstitutional
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 15, 2020, 12:43:21 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-democrats-election-results-trump-unrest.amp#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s
Wild that were taking about the US...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 16, 2020, 10:28:32 PM
Excess deaths may be partly due to Covid restrictions rather than Covid itself.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/16/dementia-deaths-coronavirus-nursing-homes-416530
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on September 17, 2020, 08:47:06 AM
https://fox17.com/amp/news/local/covid-19-emails-from-nashville-mayors-office-show-disturbing-revelation

And politicians want us to trust them on the Wuhan virus and keep us locked up
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: KSMH on September 17, 2020, 09:02:24 AM
Excess deaths may be partly due to Covid restrictions rather than Covid itself.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/16/dementia-deaths-coronavirus-nursing-homes-416530
https://fox17.com/amp/news/local/covid-19-emails-from-nashville-mayors-office-show-disturbing-revelation

And politicians want us to trust them on the Wuhan virus and keep us locked up
https://www.foxnews.com/media/atlantic-democrats-election-results-trump-unrest.amp#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s
Wild that were taking about the US...
Yet, when I start a thread detailing how # are skewed, some ridiculed.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 17, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-seriously-ill-virus-patients-surges-as-report-points-to-excess-deaths/#gs.gefhdm

And now Israel is seeing unexplained excess deaths in those over 65 years of age- 200 deaths in one month alone above and beyond the covid numbers. Of course they are blaming it on covid, but if the deaths are actually due to the social distancing measures that would mean almost as many seniors died due to the restrictions as those dying from covid.....
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 17, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-seriously-ill-virus-patients-surges-as-report-points-to-excess-deaths/#gs.gefhdm

And now Israel is seeing unexplained excess deaths in those over 65 years of age- 200 deaths in one month alone above and beyond the covid numbers. Of course they are blaming it on covid, but if the deaths are actually due to the social distancing measures that would mean almost as many seniors died due to the restrictions as those dying from covid.....

Oh, stop it! The politicians are following sacred Science and the questioning must cease! All the information, theories, hypothesis are sacrocent and any facts that suggest otherwise are irrelevant.

https://fox17.com/amp/news/local/covid-19-emails-from-nashville-mayors-office-show-disturbing-revelation

And politicians want us to trust them on the Wuhan virus and keep us locked up

Obviously this is the outlier and all other information, data, facts and theories are fully disclosed to the public...

Kinda makes you wonder if maybe the mandates are predetermined and the relevant facts that are promoted are those that fit that narrative. But then that is just a conspiracy theory...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 17, 2020, 10:59:35 AM
Oh, stop it! The politicians are following sacred Science and the questioning must cease! All the information, theories, hypothesis are sacrocent and any facts that suggest otherwise are irrelevant.

Obviously this is the outlier and all other information, data, facts and theories are fully disclosed to the public...

Kinda makes you wonder if maybe the mandates are predetermined and the relevant facts that are promoted are those that fit that narrative. But then that is just a conspiracy theory...
Ok I'll bite. What's the conspiracy theory why Bibi is locking down Israel?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on September 17, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Oh, stop it! The politicians are following sacred Science and the questioning must cease! All the information, theories, hypothesis are sacrocent and any facts that suggest otherwise are irrelevant.

Obviously this is the outlier and all other information, data, facts and theories are fully disclosed to the public...

Kinda makes you wonder if maybe the mandates are predetermined and the relevant facts that are promoted are those that fit that narrative. But then that is just a conspiracy theory...
So...your theory is that politicians are all evil and they just want to lock people up. They would have done it in 2019, but they had no excuse. In 2021, once COVID blows over, they'll probably just round up all the citizens and throw them in jail?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on September 17, 2020, 11:30:02 AM
https://fox17.com/amp/news/local/covid-19-emails-from-nashville-mayors-office-show-disturbing-revelation

And politicians want us to trust them on the Wuhan virus and keep us locked up
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 11:40:57 AM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-seriously-ill-virus-patients-surges-as-report-points-to-excess-deaths/#gs.gefhdm

And now Israel is seeing unexplained excess deaths in those over 65 years of age- 200 deaths in one month alone above and beyond the covid numbers. Of course they are blaming it on covid, but if the deaths are actually due to the social distancing measures that would mean almost as many seniors died due to the restrictions as those dying from covid.....

You do understand that lockdown and isolating seniors is avoidable, right? If you're strict about preventive measures to keep the virus from running rampant in your community/city/state/country, then people can live life. But refusing to take any precautions because "the numbers are low" or "there's no community spread yet" causes deaths, both from Covid, and from needing to isolate vulnerable populations.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 12:21:03 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/joe-bidens-covid-19-advisers-are-more-deadly-than-the-virus/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Tomorrow on September 17, 2020, 12:33:52 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/joe-bidens-covid-19-advisers-are-more-deadly-than-the-virus/
Seems to me the first two paragraphs contradict each other.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 12:49:19 PM
Seems to me the first two paragraphs contradict each other.
Why? They both say Biden doesn't want to prioritize over 65.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 17, 2020, 12:52:32 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/number-of-seriously-ill-virus-patients-surges-as-report-points-to-excess-deaths/#gs.gefhdm

And now Israel is seeing unexplained excess deaths in those over 65 years of age- 200 deaths in one month alone above and beyond the covid numbers. Of course they are blaming it on covid, but if the deaths are actually due to the social distancing measures that would mean almost as many seniors died due to the restrictions as those dying from covid.....
Aren't you one of those advocating that only those at higher risk should fully isolate and everyone else should go about their lives? This seems to contradict such an approach.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 17, 2020, 01:44:00 PM
So...your theory is that politicians are all evil and they just want to lock people up. They would have done it in 2019, but they had no excuse. In 2021, once COVID blows over, they'll probably just round up all the citizens and throw them in jail?

 ;)   :)

Ok I'll bite. What's the conspiracy theory why Bibi is locking down Israel?

Don't know what all the angles are, but the Nashville example is very telling. Certainly in Nashville, you see it was systemic, not an isolated individual. It happened there and they were caught, one can imagine there are loads of additional instances that were not caught. And no, I don't think evil is the root of it. There are reasons beyond the below list and there is overlap between them, but here are some suggestions:

1. Politicians / alarmist scientists don't want to be wrong. The public will ignore them if they are, so they need to double down on the path they have staked. A for instance is that the rationale for the closing down of society was the model that shown 2.2M deaths in the US. Noone backtracked on the basis of that model being wrong. (this is just an example, if you don't agree the models were wrong, as some previously argued on this forum, then this is not a good example)

2. They don't want to be second guessed in hindsight on the hugely damaging decisions they made to close down society.

3. Politicians / alarmist scientists do not want to be blamed. It is much easier to justify mandating extreme cautious safeguards in the spirit of "out of an abundance of caution", while it is hard to get stuck with blame for the unintended consequences of such actions. If 2000 lives were saved by a mandate, while the unintended consequences can be blamed for 2000 dying, the politician / cautious alarmist scientist may choose the mandate, even if the mandate includes hardships beyond the death toll. The flip side is equally true. It is much easier to blame the straight up death toll from a disease on the politician who did not take extreme measures to prevent it and much more difficult for that politician to defend such a decision based on the unintended consequences and death toll of implementing extreme measures. The President claims that was the basis for his reaction to the Wuhan reports, yet look how many are placing blame on him for the 200k COVID deaths in the US.

4. Ego

5. Power trip - Being able to tell people what to do is why some got into politics.

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 01:47:21 PM
Curious, but not enough to really research it: what was Nashville's policy for bars and restaurants over the last 8 months?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 02:38:00 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375
Bhramar Mukherjee, a professor of biostatistics and epidemiology at the University of Michigan who has been closely tracking the pandemic, says her models point to about 100 million infections in India now.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 03:37:03 PM
https://khn.org/news/lack-of-antigen-test-reporting-leaves-country-blind-to-the-pandemic/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on September 17, 2020, 04:04:54 PM
https://khn.org/news/lack-of-antigen-test-reporting-leaves-country-blind-to-the-pandemic/
Does this mean that the results of rapids are not counted in NJ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 17, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
You do understand that lockdown and isolating seniors is avoidable, right? If you're strict about preventive measures to keep the virus from running rampant in your community/city/state/country, then people can live life. But refusing to take any precautions because "the numbers are low" or "there's no community spread yet" causes deaths, both from Covid, and from needing to isolate vulnerable populations.
That model involves letting the disease run itís course quickly. Switzerland is starting to allow visits to LTC facilities while the rest of the world has seniors on a perpetual lockdown to the point that any administrator in a nursing home will tell you the residents have no will to live, nothing to live for, and no end in sight, and many are succumbing.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 04:10:58 PM
Does this mean that the results of rapids are not counted in NJ?
Thats what it says.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 04:20:35 PM
That model involves letting the disease run itís course quickly. Switzerland is starting to allow visits to LTC facilities while the rest of the world has seniors on a perpetual lockdown to the point that any administrator in a nursing home will tell you the residents have no will to live, nothing to live for, and no end in sight, and many are succumbing.

Which model?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on September 17, 2020, 04:28:24 PM
Thats what it says.
Whoa!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on September 17, 2020, 04:32:07 PM
Thats what it says.
This explains a lot about the low reported numbers in Lakewood without any conspiracy theories required.
Title: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 17, 2020, 04:49:27 PM
This explains a lot about the low reported numbers in Lakewood without any conspiracy theories required.
+1

Do urgent cares give rapid + PCR? Like how they do for flu/strep?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 05:09:30 PM
+1

?.?.?? You said numerous times it is a conspiracy, in fact numerous conspiracies.
Guess they didn't get the "don't test" memo. It's fine though, the urgent care just won't report.


A pet conspiracy theory of mine right now.
I think it's a combination of that many, many people are just not testing, and doctors' offices not reporting to OCHD (conspiracy theory alert), so that govt shouldn't shut anything down.

Hatzolah has been getting multiple Covid calls a day for the past few days.
Title: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 17, 2020, 05:14:04 PM

?.?.?? You said numerous times it is a conspiracy, in fact numerous conspiracies.
I had no other explanation. This is a plausible reason!

It's still true that there are doctors and askanim pushing for no testing (not a conspiracy!), but it makes sense that low numbers were combination of this and non reporting of rapids.

My conspiracy theory was that the urgent cares themselves weren't reporting. I didn't really believe it but I couldn't think of any other explanation of the discrepancy between the official numbers and the packed urgent cares. This would resolve it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yaakov35 on September 17, 2020, 05:17:14 PM
I had no other explanation.

Why does there need to be an explanation? Why does your interpretation of things not adding up need to have an answer? I don't know isn't enough? That's what I don't get. Why do people need to have an answer to anything. Instead of conspiracy theories maybe we just don't know? And here you see there very well maybe a very logical explanation that we just didn't know.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 17, 2020, 09:56:20 PM
https://simpleflying.com/china-southern-unlimited-flight-pass/
 

Coming to an airline near you?
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-09-16-New-Air-Canada-Infinite-Canada-Flight-Pass-Offers-Customers-Unrivalled-Flexibility-and-Certainty-for-Domestic-Travel

$1520/month
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehudaa on September 17, 2020, 10:01:49 PM
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-09-16-New-Air-Canada-Infinite-Canada-Flight-Pass-Offers-Customers-Unrivalled-Flexibility-and-Certainty-for-Domestic-Travel

$1520/month

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/air-canada/air-canada-launches-can-fly-flight-pass/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dawie on September 18, 2020, 12:07:22 PM
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 20, 2020, 08:56:37 PM
A follow up on the Nashville "scandal." It's from CNN, but it's verifiable:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/18/media/nashville-coronavirus-fox17-right-wing-media/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on September 22, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
https://www.outkick.com/latest-college-campus-covid-statistics-show-no-death-nearly-zero-hospitalizations/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 22, 2020, 08:40:45 PM
https://www.outkick.com/latest-college-campus-covid-statistics-show-no-death-nearly-zero-hospitalizations/

There have been a number of well documented instances of student-athletes developing heart conditions from Covid, which made them drop out of athletics. This whole "they ain't dead!" narrative is getting stale.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on September 22, 2020, 09:34:24 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/09/21/bridgewater-set-up-tent-offices-in-the-woods-to-beat-covid-19/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on September 22, 2020, 10:07:49 PM
There have been a number of well documented instances of student-athletes developing heart conditions from Covid, which made them drop out of athletics. This whole "they ain't dead!" narrative is getting stale.
You mean the penn state report that was debunked?
Or the one or two real cases that are out there.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 22, 2020, 10:12:30 PM
You mean the penn state report that was debunked?
Or the one or two real cases that are out there.

You mean this debunking?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-linked-heart-inflammation-college-athletes-small-study-suggests-n1239875
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on September 22, 2020, 10:27:04 PM
You mean this debunking?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-linked-heart-inflammation-college-athletes-small-study-suggests-n1239875
Penn state retracted the statement and youíre talking 4 patients out of likely thousands of players that have tested positive who have a treatable heart condition.
And guess what? The big ten had that data and is playing football.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 22, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
Penn state retracted the statement and youíre talking 4 patients out of likely thousands of players that have tested positive who have a treatable heart condition.
And guess what? The big ten had that data and is playing football.

I'm talking 4 out of 26. Let's not get this twisted: in no way, shape, or form am I saying that everyone who gets Covid is ending up with a serious medical condition. However, when 4 of 26 college athletes end up with a heart issue, and the only reason it was found is because someone looked for it, because they are college athletes, I think it's pretty safe to assume that they aren't the only ones with an issue. Also don't forget that these are COLLEGE ATHLETES - young and the epitome of health. They should be affected the least. The point is, let's stop pretending that it's fine for Covid to run rampant through colleges or any demographic because there's no harm.

Oh, and the BIG 10 is playing football because of money. It has nothing to do with health.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on September 23, 2020, 12:20:57 AM


Oh, and the BIG 10 is playing football because of money. It has nothing to do with health.
Umm. You know what would cost a lot more money? If the big 10 were to play knowing that they could be causing damage to their players and face huge lawsuits down the road
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 23, 2020, 05:18:23 AM
Umm. You know what would cost a lot more money? If the big 10 were to play knowing that they could be causing damage to their players and face huge lawsuits down the road

People a lot more knowledgeable than you or me have run the numbers and decided otherwise. Between waivers, insurance, player screenings/opt-outs, massive TV/sponsorship deals, and future recruiting ramifications, somehow the math said to play. That's not a referendum on the safety of the players, and it's definitely not a referendum on the long-term health risks posed by Covid to college students or anyone else. It's a business decision.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 23, 2020, 08:40:16 AM
People a lot more knowledgeable than you or me have run the numbers and decided otherwise. Between waivers, insurance, player screenings/opt-outs, massive TV/sponsorship deals, and future recruiting ramifications, somehow the math said to play. That's not a referendum on the safety of the players, and it's definitely not a referendum on the long-term health risks posed by Covid to college students or anyone else. It's a business decision.
If long term health were actually a financial concern, I think football (as we know it) as a whole wouldn't still be played.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Proisrael on September 23, 2020, 12:20:52 PM
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/287773
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 23, 2020, 12:45:35 PM
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/287773
Get a grip. The spread is because of a lack of HQC being prescribed?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on September 23, 2020, 01:28:43 PM
Get a grip. The spread is because of a lack of HQC being prescribed?
Not that I know whether what it says in the article is true, but that's not what it says.
It says that the higher death rate is due to lack HQC being prescribed.
Whether there is a higher death rate - not sure. And whetheer it's because lack of HQC, also not true. BUt that's what the article says
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on September 24, 2020, 08:40:04 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/23/houston-coronavirus-mutations
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on September 24, 2020, 02:17:03 PM
This could be a major game-changer. My only question is what happens to the dog's sense of smell if it gets COVID-19.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/close-to-100-accuracy-airport-enlists-sniffer-dogs-to-test-for-covid-19

Will any country reopen using this technology?

https://people.com/pets/finland-to-use-coronavirus-sniffing-dogs-at-helsinki-airport/


Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on September 24, 2020, 06:58:00 PM
https://stke.sciencemag.org/content/13/649/eabe4242
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on September 24, 2020, 08:22:17 PM
Apparently Covid doesnít like masks either so itís mutating to get around them.
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/covid-19-mutation-may-be-evolving-to-bypass-masks-hand-washing/amp/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 24, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
Apparently Covid doesnít like masks either so itís mutating to get around them.
https://nypost.com/2020/09/24/covid-19-mutation-may-be-evolving-to-bypass-masks-hand-washing/amp/
It's the D614G that's been the predominant strain since April and earlier
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on September 24, 2020, 09:35:45 PM
It's the D614G that's been the predominant strain since April and earlier
This is old news being recycled
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on September 25, 2020, 07:07:09 AM
https://5townscentral.com/2020/09/24/covid-19-update-rabbi-dr-glatt-why-this-tremendous-surge-now-all-over-frum-communities/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on September 25, 2020, 09:24:14 AM
This is old news being recycled

What isn't at this point?

#SecondWave
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on September 29, 2020, 12:49:48 AM
https://www.jta.org/2020/07/08/health/brooklyns-hasidic-jews-are-acting-like-they-have-herd-immunity-could-they-be-right/amp? (https://www.jta.org/2020/07/08/health/brooklyns-hasidic-jews-are-acting-like-they-have-herd-immunity-could-they-be-right/amp?)



Betterdige's law of headlines (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines) is correct again.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on September 29, 2020, 12:17:43 PM
What a crazy world

https://abc7ny.com/health/travelers-to-ny-from-all-but-these-31-countries-must-quarantine/6630698/

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-signs-executive-order-reminding-international-travelers-coming-level-2-3
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on September 29, 2020, 01:08:33 PM
What a crazy world

https://abc7ny.com/health/travelers-to-ny-from-all-but-these-31-countries-must-quarantine/6630698/

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-signs-executive-order-reminding-international-travelers-coming-level-2-3

Did you read the Executive Order? What's new? Everything was already in effect. It's an executive order "reminding" people of the obligation to quarantine. It's also political grandstanding as the CDC relaxed some oversight.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on September 29, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Did you read the Executive Order? What's new? Everything was already in effect. It's an executive order "reminding" people of the obligation to quarantine. It's also political grandstanding as the CDC relaxed some oversight.
I believe Canada was added as a place needing to quarantine when coming from
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on September 29, 2020, 02:53:14 PM
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30002596/notre-dame-football-coach-brian-kelly-targets-coronavirus-outbreak-pregame-meal-vomiting-player

Quote
"Throughout our entire time together, we had not had one meal where we sat down together," Kelly said. "Everything was grab and go. We get into our game situation where we have pregame meal together, and that cost us. Big. We had somebody who was asymptomatic, and it spread like wildfire throughout our meeting area where we were eating and then it got guys in contact tracing."

Succos meals may be outdoors, but please don't underestimate the spread that can occur during a YT meal with some guests.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on September 30, 2020, 05:59:09 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/288163
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: shwarmabob on October 01, 2020, 12:44:00 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/genetic-science-coronavirus-outbreak-iowa/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on October 01, 2020, 08:16:27 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/genetic-science-coronavirus-outbreak-iowa/

Lucky for us (Kosher consumers) this will get lost in the noise.

Keep in mind, the genetic work analyzing Postvilleís genetic data would be the same anywhere else there was similar spread, probably at thousands of factories/warehouses across America.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: shwarmabob on October 01, 2020, 09:36:01 AM
Lucky for us (Kosher consumers) this will get lost in the noise.

Keep in mind, the genetic work analyzing Postvilleís genetic data would be the same anywhere else there was similar spread, probably at thousands of factories/warehouses across America.
I know I heard reports of widespread infections in treif meat processing plants as well, but that's hearsay and maybe nobody analyzed the data or the journalist didn't pick it up.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on October 01, 2020, 11:58:05 AM
Here is one example of an outbreak in meat processing plants: "The coronavirus has killed five workers from two Eastern Shore poultry plants and infected more than 200 other employees, Maryland health officials said Thursday." from a June 12th article.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-md-chicken-plant-cases-20200611-ck65omlurrd63anpoqiibitblm-story.html

One thing that did seem to jump out from the Washington Post article, and I am not a 'everything is anti-semitic' reacrtionary, was this line early in the article about Agri:

"Where was the contagion coming from? No one would say. Not Agri Starís wealthy owner, who didnít shut down production lines after cases were confirmed among workers." Why was "wealthy" necessary to describe the owner of a large production facility? That seemed like a code word for "Jewish" and made me suspicious of stereotyping.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 05, 2020, 10:30:48 PM
https://unherd.com/2020/10/covid-experts-there-is-another-way/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jerseysteve on October 05, 2020, 10:48:16 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BoroPark24/status/1312916701193940992
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: myi on October 06, 2020, 05:30:27 PM
https://amp-reddit-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Brooklyn/comments/j5tr42/social_distancing_in_full_effect_here_on_the_ferry/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16020139899271&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FBrooklyn%2Fcomments%2Fj5tr42%2Fsocial_distancing_in_full_effect_here_on_the_ferry%2F
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 08:25:28 AM
Hebrew article about the challenges of hearing impaired people in a masked world.

https://m.ynet.co.il/articles/58114290
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 07, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812

(This is interesting because of where it's published.)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 11:11:24 PM
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812

(This is interesting because of where it's published.)

Indeed. Everything is political.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on October 09, 2020, 10:45:00 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-jewish-revolt-against-lockdowns-11602198987
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on October 09, 2020, 11:42:38 AM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/10-9-20-news-roundup-covid-19-flights-nowhere-skymiles-mortgage-airlines-banning-food-ritz-maldives-home-makeover-faked-death/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on October 09, 2020, 12:03:13 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-jewish-revolt-against-lockdowns-11602198987
This is fantastic
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on October 11, 2020, 09:47:44 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-lockdown-fines.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 11, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash

Like like the most comprehensive sum of events.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on October 14, 2020, 11:11:55 PM
https://collive.com/heres-why-i-wear-a-mask/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 15, 2020, 12:12:02 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/howard-springs-coronavirus-quarantine-expanded-australians-home/12769796
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on October 15, 2020, 09:17:59 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-horrific-whatsapp-rumor-mill-fueling-brooklyns-covid-backlash?ref=scroll
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on October 15, 2020, 09:34:32 AM
This is a long Twitter thread with a very interesting perspective
You need to go into Twitter to see The thread

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on October 15, 2020, 10:58:32 AM
This is a long Twitter thread with a very interesting perspective
You need to go into Twitter to see The thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1316595937532424198.html (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1316595937532424198.html)


Quote
We Orthodox Jews in NYC have been all the rage for a few weeks now, and I gather most people outside the community have no idea whatís really transpiring here, so allow me to try to clarify some stuff for you all.
The Jewish community here is very big, and consists of hundreds of congregations. Each can be different. Obviously I canít give an accounting for all, but Iíll try to give a general explainer on the broad happenings with COVID and the restrictions impacting religious life.
As most know, in March & April the orthodox Jewish community in the Tri-State area suffered greatly from COVID. Many lives were lost. (As an aside, I wonít use the derogatory and meaningless ďultraĒ label when describing Orthodox Jews).
The situation was so serious, that many Jewish institutions went into lockdown before the city or state mandated it. The emergency was obvious. Sirens were blaring hourly ó if not more frequently, & at some point everyone had a neighbor or tow that was hospitalized due to COVID.
Yes, as with every community/society, there were those that were reckless and ignored all warnings. But Iím not here to discuss the crazies. Iím here to give you a picture of the overwhelming majority of sane citizens, and they took the pandemic very seriously.
So seriously, that synagogues and schools were closed. That didnít happen since the Holocaust, but it did happen in March-April of 2020, and it happened voluntarily.
While religious services and traditional schooling are so sacred, life was even more sacred. The Torah treasures life more than everything.
By the time June came around, thankfully the situation was far far better. People werenít getting sick, and normalcy was slowly returning.

Many congregations had an infection rate higher than 50% (some closer to 70%), which also made the spread far less likely now.
New York State didnít allow for summer camps to open, but most kids went to camp nonetheless. Camps relocated to other states, and the sort. Upstate bungalow colonies were open, community life resumed, but the pandemic didnít restart. In fact, there were no new cases.
July and August saw lots of travel. New Yorkers were going out of state, and many folks from stateside or overseas came to New York. Slowly new cases were appearing. That was predictable, and if you recall ďa second waveĒ was expected for months.
In September the uptick became noticeable. Urgent-care centers were again full with folks getting tested.

But this ďwaveĒ didnít resemble March-April whatsoever. Sirens were hardly heard, and few are hospitalized.
That isnít necessarily the case in other regions/states or countries. But it is the case in the orthodox sections of New York City.
I can think of a few possible factors:

ēMost got the virus the first time around

ēWe now know much more about treatments.

ēUnlike March, testing is widely available, so treatment can start early.

ēUnlike March, masks are available, and people are more protected
Regardless, the situation isnít anywhere near what it was in March-April, so naturally people donít see the need for another lockdown. They donít want their lives disrupted ó when the rationale isnít there.
Thatís especially true when you consider the fact that theyíre being singled out. Unlike the first time around, these restrictions are being tailored for specific communities.

When New York State reopened, it happened by Ďregioní, but now theyíve changed the rules of the game.
Then thereís the presentation of the new restrictions. Cuomo lied to the Jewish leaders/Rabbis. He got them to agree on something reasonable, only to hours-later announce something very radical. It was a bait and switch. nytimes.com/2020/10/12/nyrÖ
How a Feud Between Cuomo and de Blasio Led to a Chaotic Virus Crackdown
The mayor pushed out a plan, only to have the governor override him, causing unnecessary confusion for thousands of business owners and school parents.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/nyregion/cuomo-coronavirus-orthodox-shutdown.amp.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/nyregion/cuomo-coronavirus-orthodox-shutdown.amp.html)
EXCLUSIVE FULL RECORDING: Jewish Leaders Say They Were 'Stabbed in the Back' by Cuomo | Hamodia.com
Hamodia has exclusively obtained a full recording of a conference call New York Gov. Andrew Cumo had with Jewish leaders last Tuesday, in which he said he would limit houses of worship to 50% occupancÖ
https://hamodia.com/2020/10/12/exclusive-recording-jewish-leaders-say-stabbed-back-cuomo/ (https://hamodia.com/2020/10/12/exclusive-recording-jewish-leaders-say-stabbed-back-cuomo/)
In fact, Cuomoís first proclamation on the uptick of cases came on the high holiday of Yom Kipur. His disregard for the community he was supposedly talking to and caring for ó could not be any clearer.
While itís true that our communities experienced an uptick in cases, itís not out of control, and it wonít get out of control for the factors mentioned above. We may have been the first to have such high infection rates, but weíll also be the first to have them lowered once more.
The numbers are already lower. The virus caught us again by surprise, just as it caught every other community/region be surprise. But now itís under control. Obviously we must remain vigilant and cautious, but thereís no reason for panic and lockdowns.
Itís therefore no wonder that Orthodox Jews donít want to have their religious liberties taken away ó when life and its liberties can resume and survive.
Orthodox Jews also donít want to be living in a ghetto again, where different rules are tailored for their community. You just need to listen to Cuomo & De Blasio, to hear how their color-coded neighborhoods are all about the Jews. Never again is never again.
Cuomo & De Blasio werenít there for us when we were being beaten and slaughtered in the streets and synagogues of New York (late 2019-early 2020), but now they claim to care. The communityís reaction is ďNo thanksĒ.
Then they said they didnít have the personnel to protect us. Somehow now they have all the personnel necessary to shutter our synagogues and schools.

We are in a dire situation, but not as a result of a health risk, rather as a result of the trampling of our god-given liberties.
To conclude: We care for life more than Cuomo does. Much more. Heís responsible for the lost lives of thousands. But we also care for our liberties ó especially our religious liberties. And Orthodox Jews arenít about to give Cuomo control over the well-being. Period.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mtrasb on October 15, 2020, 01:01:08 PM
https://www.foodandwine.com/chefs/covid19-loss-taste-bar-manager-crown-shy?amp=true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on October 15, 2020, 04:54:30 PM
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/289145
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: cholent on October 15, 2020, 08:49:34 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/nyregion/orthodox-protests-borough-park.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 15, 2020, 09:18:30 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-15/mexican-billionaire-with-covid-says-we-ll-all-get-it-eventually?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on October 15, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-15/mexican-billionaire-with-covid-says-we-ll-all-get-it-eventually?srnd=premium
Alternative headline:

ď65 year old critic of precautionary measures who refuses to wear a mask contracts coronavirusĒ
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mtrasb on October 16, 2020, 03:08:37 PM
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/religion-science-coronavirus
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 16, 2020, 03:19:40 PM
Alternative headline:

ď65 year old critic of precautionary measures who refuses to wear a mask contracts coronavirusĒ

Alternative sub heading:

"Even Jewish leaders of certain Chassidic sects who were very careful and strict with all precautions and mask wearing contracted coronavirus".
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 18, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
https://forward.com/life/456582/portraits-of-the-healers-orthodox-doctors-and-nurses-in-their-own-words/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 18, 2020, 05:43:16 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-packaging-idUSKBN2720MD

China once again proving to outpace the US research community
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on October 18, 2020, 05:46:17 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-packaging-idUSKBN2720MD

China once again proving to outpace the US research community

This is China flexing that they have the most minute details of this under control while the rest of the world needs to fear packaging on frozen food.

Basically propaganda. If COVID was getting around on food packaging weíd have a much bigger issue on our hands (no pun intended).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 20, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-false-claim-that-covid-death-counts-are-inflated/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on October 21, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
https://www.dw.com/en/dogs-detect-coronavirus-fast-and-reliably-why-not-use-them-everywhere/a-55340369

Wish this could be implemented. Imagine no more masks in shuls, weddings without capacity limits, just place a dog at the entrance to screen attendees. It will never be implemented because it's too easy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 21, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
https://www.dw.com/en/dogs-detect-coronavirus-fast-and-reliably-why-not-use-them-everywhere/a-55340369

Wish this could be implemented. Imagine no more masks in shuls, weddings without capacity limits, just place a dog at the entrance to screen attendees. It will never be implemented because it's too easy.
LMAO that you think dogs would be allowed in Lakewood/BP/KJ etc
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on October 21, 2020, 06:58:32 PM
The dogs themselves would lead to lower attendance at weddings :)

Even if they couldn't detect covid
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 21, 2020, 07:32:16 PM
http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/101720-show-293/podcast.headlinesbook.com
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on October 21, 2020, 07:38:07 PM
http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/101720-show-293/podcast.headlinesbook.com
Bad link
Fixed (http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/101720-show-293/)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 21, 2020, 07:45:39 PM
https://www.dw.com/en/dogs-detect-coronavirus-fast-and-reliably-why-not-use-them-everywhere/a-55340369

Wish this could be implemented. Imagine no more masks in shuls, weddings without capacity limits, just place a dog at the entrance to screen attendees. It will never be implemented because it's too easy.

Is that a #SecondWave or a repost?

This could be a major game-changer. My only question is what happens to the dog's sense of smell if it gets COVID-19.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/24/close-to-100-accuracy-airport-enlists-sniffer-dogs-to-test-for-covid-19

Will any country reopen using this technology?

https://people.com/pets/finland-to-use-coronavirus-sniffing-dogs-at-helsinki-airport/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on October 21, 2020, 09:33:51 PM
Is that a #SecondWave or a repost?

Repost I guess. Iíve seen that they were training dogs didnít know it was actually being used.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 21, 2020, 09:36:51 PM
Repost I guess. Iíve seen that they were training dogs didnít know it was actually being used.
מודה ועוזב ירוחם.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on October 22, 2020, 01:06:39 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/sports/ncaafootball/saban-virus-tests-alabama.html#click=https://t.co/Is8kV7Zz20

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 06:22:01 AM
I guess the world is slowly coming around to endorsing immunity passports as the most realistic way to return to some sort of normalcy.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/united-airlines-trials-covid-19-health-pass-to-kick-start-global-travel-again-11603280283
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on October 23, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
I guess the world is slowly coming around to endorsing immunity passports as the most realistic way to return to some sort of normalcy.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/united-airlines-trials-covid-19-health-pass-to-kick-start-global-travel-again-11603280283 (https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/united-airlines-trials-covid-19-health-pass-to-kick-start-global-travel-again-11603280283)


The best way to reach herd immunity?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: skyguy918 on October 23, 2020, 11:45:41 AM
I guess the world is slowly coming around to endorsing immunity passports as the most realistic way to return to some sort of normalcy.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/united-airlines-trials-covid-19-health-pass-to-kick-start-global-travel-again-11603280283

The best way to reach herd immunity?
Maybe I skimmed a little too fast, but what does this article have to do with immunity at all? The words antibody and immunity don't appear on the page at all.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on October 23, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
Maybe I skimmed a little too fast, but what does this article have to do with immunity at all? The words antibody and immunity don't appear on the page at all.

I actually read the article and saw nothing regarding immunity so I'm not either sure what that comment means.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 23, 2020, 12:07:59 PM
I actually read the article and saw nothing regarding immunity so I'm not either sure what that comment means.
Maybe I skimmed a little too fast, but what does this article have to do with immunity at all? The words antibody and immunity don't appear on the page at all.

There would be incentive for people to willfully infect themselves to gain personal freedom, leading to herd immunity.

@aygart and @ExGingi have a long standing disagreement about this.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: skyguy918 on October 23, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
There would be incentive for people to willfully infect themselves to gain personal freedom, leading to herd immunity.

@aygart and @ExGingi have a long standing disagreement about this.
How though? They could just not get infected and have the same personal freedom, because they tested negative. There's nothing in the article about antibodies.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on October 23, 2020, 12:28:26 PM
Anyways if it's debatable how long antibodies lasts, an immunity passport is of debatable value.

But I wouldn't call that an immunity passport, it seems to be mainly for the convenience of people testing in advance and showing their results, rather than testing on the spot and waiting for results.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on October 23, 2020, 12:37:57 PM
Maybe I skimmed a little too fast, but what does this article have to do with immunity at all? The words antibody and immunity don't appear on the page at all.
Article? You mean there was an article there?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: skyguy918 on October 23, 2020, 12:41:53 PM
Article? You mean there was an article there?
It would be really helpful if you would just say what you want to say, instead of trying to be cute.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 12:44:50 PM
It would be really helpful if you would just say what you want to say, instead of trying to be cute.

Helpful has gone out the window in that particular debate.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 23, 2020, 02:39:09 PM
https://t.co/497ypxjgeU
Germany spending $500m to increase ventilation in schools
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 27, 2020, 03:07:58 PM
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215343v1

No excess suicide deaths in Massachusetts
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on October 29, 2020, 10:07:50 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/opinion/ultra-orthodox-jews-coronavirus.html

https://kugelreport.com/shmuel-rosner-publishes-despicable-frum-hit-job-in-new-york-times/

Title: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on October 29, 2020, 10:14:31 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/opinion/ultra-orthodox-jews-coronavirus.html

https://kugelreport.com/shmuel-rosner-publishes-despicable-frum-hit-job-in-new-york-times/
I'm definitely not happy about the NYT article (dirty laundry shouldn't be publicized) and its anti chareidi tone. But the kugelreport "rebuttal" is just gaslighting.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: mgarfin on October 29, 2020, 10:52:03 AM
I'm definitely not happy about the NYT article (dirty laundry shouldn't be publicized) and its anti chareidi tone. But the kugelreport "rebuttal" is just gaslighting.


The OJPAC full Twitter thread is much better
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on October 30, 2020, 05:47:16 AM
https://mishpacha.com/have-we-burned-our-bridges/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on October 30, 2020, 10:24:01 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/opinion/ultra-orthodox-jews-coronavirus.html

https://kugelreport.com/shmuel-rosner-publishes-despicable-frum-hit-job-in-new-york-times/


Rosner is part of JPPI which has a telling bio. He used to write for Ha'aretz and he published a book entitled "Shtetl Bagel Baseball, on the Wonderful Dreadful State of American JewsĒ

http://jppi.org.il/en/staff/fellows/#.X5whSIhKiWY

No wonder the Times picked up his slandertorial.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on October 31, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/new-yorks-crackdown-on-jewish-businesses-makes-no-public-health-sense
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on October 31, 2020, 11:48:43 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/us/coronavirus-transmission-everywhere.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 01, 2020, 02:29:11 AM
https://www.businessinsider.com/united-airlines-free-covid-19-tests-covid19-newark-heathrow-london-2020-10
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on November 02, 2020, 07:45:45 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-burden-falls-heavily-on-middle-aged-men-11604313002?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on November 02, 2020, 08:39:23 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-burden-falls-heavily-on-middle-aged-men-11604313002?mod=mhp
Seems to be the case in Lakewood...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 03, 2020, 06:07:52 PM
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!  (ETA: This isn't really breaking news. I am being sarcastic. #secondwave)

https://www.foxnews.com/health/rapid-coronavirus-tests-false-positives-fda
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on November 03, 2020, 06:21:16 PM
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/health/rapid-coronavirus-tests-false-positives-fda
We've been saying this for weeks
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 03, 2020, 06:23:39 PM
We've been saying this for weeks months and months

FTFY
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on November 03, 2020, 06:29:10 PM
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

https://www.foxnews.com/health/rapid-coronavirus-tests-false-positives-fda

Article seems to say that these false positives are when the tests arenít read properly according to the manufacturerís instructions, not as much of a ďBREAKING NEWSĒ headline.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 03, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
Article seems to say that these false positives are when the tests arenít read properly according to the manufacturerís instructions, not as much of a ďBREAKING NEWSĒ headline.

Edited
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on November 11, 2020, 12:50:00 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/research-ties-curbing-the-covid-19-pandemic-to-saving-the-economy-11605016800?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 11, 2020, 12:10:18 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.themarker.com/amp/coronavirus/.premium-1.9302114
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 11, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.themarker.com/amp/coronavirus/.premium-1.9302114
bad link
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 11, 2020, 12:34:01 PM
bad link

Works for me with no paywall issues. But you can try https://www.themarker.com/coronavirus/.premium-1.9302114

It's in Hebrew.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 11, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
Works for me with no paywall issues. But you can try https://www.themarker.com/coronavirus/.premium-1.9302114

It's in Hebrew.
Interesting since I am still getting  this Error 403 Forbidden
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on November 11, 2020, 12:50:53 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/research-ties-curbing-the-covid-19-pandemic-to-saving-the-economy-11605016800?mod=mhp
Very good point. Itís not the virus *or* the economy, itís the virus *and* the economy. The two are inseparable.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 11, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
Very good point. Itís not the virus *or* the economy, itís the virus *and* the economy. The two are inseparable.
In both directions
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 12, 2020, 12:37:52 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-unveiled.html

Some neat imagery
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 12, 2020, 12:43:43 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-unveiled.html

Some neat imagery
נפלאות הבורא!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on November 12, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/11/933957580/pfizer-ceo-sold-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-vaccine-news-raising-questio
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 12, 2020, 01:51:42 PM
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/11/933957580/pfizer-ceo-sold-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-vaccine-news-raising-questio

It's Dťjŗ vu all over again. We've seen something similar with Moderna a few months ago.

#SecondWave
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on November 12, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
It's Dťjŗ vu all over again. We've seen something similar with Moderna a few months ago.

#SecondWave
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/04/908305074/bad-optics-or-something-more-moderna-executives-stock-sales-raise-concerns
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yzj on November 17, 2020, 08:59:50 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/doctors-apply-covid-19-lessons-learned-as-u-s-cases-surge-11605609000?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yard sale on November 17, 2020, 05:10:34 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/health/coronavirus-immunity.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on November 18, 2020, 07:34:42 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/politics/new-york-covid-religious-rules/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ShimshonK on November 19, 2020, 06:58:37 PM
https://thedispatch.com/p/what-makes-the-pfizer-and-moderna
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ShimshonK on November 19, 2020, 07:13:20 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/operation-warp-speed-us-coronavirus-vaccine-program-pfizer-moderna-2020-11
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ShimshonK on November 19, 2020, 08:40:25 PM
USA TODAY: COVID-19 vaccines are almost ready to be distributed. Who gets them after health care workers? Here's a list..
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/19/covid-19-vaccines-who-gets-coronavirus-immunization-first/3778098001/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 22, 2020, 09:23:12 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/australia/south-australia-pizza-bar-lockdown-intl/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on November 22, 2020, 08:38:10 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/11/22/quebec-to-allow-gatherings-during-x-mas-but-not-hanukkah-frustrating-provinces-jews/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 08:44:53 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/11/20/new-zealand-flight-covid/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 22, 2020, 09:03:23 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/11/20/new-zealand-flight-covid/

Almost blasphemous

Quote
ďtransmission events occurred despite reported use of masks and gloves in-flight,Ē and that stringent masking was required by the airline operating the flight.

But then came

Quote
Freedman points out that the flight length might have impacted masking: ďIt would have been really hard for people to keep their masks on for the entire 18 hours.Ē

Now if anyone cares for honesty, find out the results of the Satmar wedding.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 09:07:49 PM
Almost blasphemous

But then came

Now if anyone cares for honesty, find out the results of the Satmar wedding.
Actually, with somebody on the plane who was known to be during his fleeting contagious period, only 7/86 people got it. Precautionary efforts were wildly successful. During 18 hours they must've removed their masks for eating and etc.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 22, 2020, 09:25:28 PM
Actually, with somebody on the plane who was known to be during his fleeting contagious period, only 7/86 people got it. Precautionary efforts were wildly successful. During 18 hours they must've removed their masks for eating and etc.

Satmar wedding had how many people with masks? Indoor singing. How many infections?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on November 22, 2020, 09:26:49 PM
Actually, with somebody on the plane who was known to be during his fleeting contagious period, only 7/86 people got it. Precautionary efforts were wildly successful. During 18 hours they must've removed their masks for eating and etc.

The article says the pre-symptomatic passenger infected 4 other people and then goes on to say that 7 cases in total were linked to the flight. I'm just wondering why they are differentiating? Were 4 people infected and then they infected another 3 or were 7 people directly  infected by the original passenger?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 09:34:18 PM
Satmar wedding had how many people with masks? Indoor singing. How many infections?
Do you claim to have data?

The article says the pre-symptomatic passenger infected 4 other people and then goes on to say that 7 cases in total were linked to the flight. I'm just wondering why they are differentiating? Were 4 people infected and then they infected another 3 or were 7 people directly  infected by the original passenger?
My understanding is 4 have very similar genome which makes it extremely likely 3 of them contacted it from the 4th on the plane (they would have nothing in common with each other prior to the plane), the other 3 may have been in contact with the linked 4 cases in the hotel after the flight, or their viral genome is simply inconclusive enough, so it's possible they got on the plane from the same pax or they were already infected prior to the plane ride but didn't transmit it to anybody,
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on November 22, 2020, 09:38:53 PM

My understanding is 4 have very similar genome which makes it extremely likely 3 of them contacted it from the 4th on the plane (they would have nothing in common with each other prior to the plane), the other 3 may have been in contact with the linked 4 cases in the hotel after the flight, or their viral genome is simply inconclusive enough, so it's possible they got on the plane from the same pax or they were already infected prior to the plane ride but didn't transmit it to anybody,

Thanks.

Interesting stuff. Your last sentence that there were those who may have not spread to others reinforces the super spreader theory held by some.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 09:46:56 PM
Thanks.

Interesting stuff. Your last sentence that there were those who may have not spread to others reinforces the super spreader theory held by some.
I think the super spreader theory is pretty well documented and not disputed, what's yet to be conclusive is the cause. However, it is definitely well established that people only transmit virus for a very limited time, be it 12h or 5 days. Remember the White House? Everybody tested daily, but every day new cases were found from the original cluster.

While it's easy to spot the holes in the net, global precautionary methods are phenomenal. In previous respiratory epidemics 50m+ died. We are at 1-3m so far. Yes modern medicine saved some, but likely no more than a few mil. Science is incredible. Politics are horrendous.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on November 22, 2020, 09:48:03 PM
Do you claim to have data?

I don't think he does (if yes, he can correct me). But looking at the data from the past 10 to 14 days for the zip codes the attendees most likely came from, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable spike (which I've already mentioned and questioned in the other thread).

And I think his point is that 7/86 = 8%+ rate with precautions and by the wedding there were obviously none (ETA, meaning no precautions, I can't say if there were no cases). They also obviously didn't test everyone before and after so there is no data to analyze other than what people will tell you anecdotally which is that they probably didn't see any cases or if yes, none were serious.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on November 22, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Remember the White House? Everybody tested daily, but every day new cases were found from the original cluster.

How did they know it was the original cluster? They also tested the DNA like in the New Zealand study or they had another way of verifying?

Politics are horrendous.

You can say that again  >:(.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
I don't think he does (if yes, he can correct me). But looking at the data from the past 10 to 14 days for the zip codes the attendees most likely came from, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable spike (which I've already mentioned and questioned in the other thread).

And I think his point is that 7/86 = 8%+ rate with precautions and by the wedding there were obviously none. They also obviously didn't test everyone before and after so there is no data to analyze other than what people will tell you anecdotally which is that they probably didn't see any cases or if yes, none were serious.
Yes I understand his implied argument, however there is no way anybody here can be certain there aren't multiple deaths as a direct result of participating in the wedding. לא שמענו אינה ראיה - not having heard something isn't admissible evidence in Halacha. How many people here knew this wedding took place?

While these arguments have been rehashed ad nauseam (and then some), the odds that somebody at the wedding was covid Positive are very high. It's hard to determine the odds that somebody in the audience was transmitting virus, as it's possible not every can be a super spreader even if timing is perfect (less viral shedding). However, the biggest fallacy is that even if there was no tragic outcome, it in no way justifies the action. Most people who drive drunk get home safely. It is still criminally dangerous.

הַחֵפֶץ לַיהוָה בְּעֹלוֹת וּזְבָחִים כִּשְׁמֹעַ בְּקוֹל יְהוָה. It is incredible that anybody can believe with a straight face having 7000 celebrate a wedding is in any way רצון ה׳.

How did they know it was the original cluster? They also tested the DNA like in the New Zealand study or they had another way of verifying?

You can say that again  >:(.
I'm not sure. As far as I can remember it was just guessing, but when multiple people who participated at an event with known transmission get it, the default assumption it's from the same cause.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: erlich on November 22, 2020, 09:59:44 PM


Do you claim to have data?


You all forgot that simchas tora was
About 6 weeks ago
And there was tens of thousands of people squeezed together in shuls all over new york state and new Jersey
No professional data
 and there was burich hashem no serious cases of covid or hospitalizations that you can point fingers on simchas tora
And btw that's the 2nd big satmar wedding this winter and tons of other big weddings and other big gatherings and bh nothing happend , so you get the picture
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on November 22, 2020, 10:05:32 PM
and bh nothing happend
Say what ??
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 10:08:27 PM

You all forgot that simchas tora was
About 6 weeks ago
And there was tens of thousands of people squeezed together in shuls all over new york state and new Jersey
No professional data
 and there was burich hashem no serious cases of covid or hospitalizations that you can point fingers on simchas tora
And btw that's the 2nd big satmar wedding this winter and tons of other big weddings and other big gatherings and bh nothing happend , so you get the picture
The only picture I get is that you think you are smarter than the rest of the world when your community had one of the highest and earliest death rates, while somehow convincing yourself it's for the altruistic purpose of serving him who sanctified one minute of one person's life over nearly every other obligation in this world.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: erlich on November 22, 2020, 10:17:56 PM
The only picture I get is that you think you are smarter than the rest of the world when your community had one of the highest and earliest death rates, while somehow convincing yourself it's for the altruistic purpose of serving him who sanctified one minute of one person's life over nearly every other obligation in this world.
No one is smarter
We live in reality and not what the media says
Exactly what I said , the chasidish community had it first and very strong, since after pesech and now as we speak the 2nd wave is for rest of the majority,

and do you have overrall data that in the chasidish community its a higher Percentage death rate from the beginning till now then in other communities?
Definitely not true

so basically everyone has to go this thru  ,earlier or later ,  there is no way to be saved from the virus, and the lockdown dosen't help an inch ,
It was a pandemic and it's over, you don't believe in it,no problem!  but you are just not realistic, and happens to be the 300k people that left new york are also not happy how the restrictions are and went to states where there isn't so many restrictions....so go figure
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 22, 2020, 11:33:16 PM



and do you have overrall data that in the chasidish community its a higher Percentage death rate from the beginning till now then in other communities?
Definitely not true

 
Considering that you wrote that something is definite I assume you have data to back that up. Please present it.

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 22, 2020, 11:33:55 PM

You all forgot that simchas tora was
About 6 weeks ago
And there was tens of thousands of people squeezed together in shuls all over new york state and new Jersey
No professional data
 and there was burich hashem no serious cases of covid or hospitalizations that you can point fingers on simchas tora
And btw that's the 2nd big satmar wedding this winter and tons of other big weddings and other big gatherings and bh nothing happend , so you get the picture
You must have very poor memory
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: skyguy918 on November 23, 2020, 10:49:46 AM
@PlatinumGuy
Wherever you copied the pasuk from, maybe in the future find another place to copy from. It may not technically be causing issurim, but you're probably better off not spelling out Hashem's name.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: stooges44 on November 23, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/tech/zoom-founder-eric-yuan-risk-takers/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: justaregularguy on November 23, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/us/politics/coronavirus-vaccine.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top&utm_source=morning_brew

great read
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on November 23, 2020, 07:45:58 PM
"Mr. Bancel said Moderna then plugged that data [the gene for the virusís spike protein] into its computers and came up with the design for an mRNA vaccine. The entire process took two days."

Two days.

"Dr. Slaoui informed Mr. Bancel that Moderna had not recruited enough minority candidates into its
vaccine trials. If it could not prove its vaccine worked well for Black and Hispanic Americans, who
have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic, it would not make it over the finish line."

(In case you're wondering, Google tells me that this is not wokeness.)

"That evening, Pfizer officials informed a key F.D.A. official of its news, along with a short list of others. Bidenís
team was alerted to the development that night. But in a sign of the suspicions that mark the Trump administration,
the presidentís top health officials did not learn of the news until the next morning, when it became public."

The Trump administration, or FDA officials?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 23, 2020, 07:51:12 PM
"Mr. Bancel said Moderna then plugged that data [the gene for the virusís spike protein] into its computers and came up with the design for an mRNA vaccine. The entire process took two days."

Two days.
Yup. If governments would've reevaluated the ethics to allow deliberate infection attempts of vaccine volunteers we would've been done with Covid months ago.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 23, 2020, 08:05:55 PM
"Mr. Bancel said Moderna then plugged that data [the gene for the virusís spike protein] into its computers and came up with the design for an mRNA vaccine. The entire process took two days."

Two days.

"Dr. Slaoui informed Mr. Bancel that Moderna had not recruited enough minority candidates into its
vaccine trials. If it could not prove its vaccine worked well for Black and Hispanic Americans, who
have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic, it would not make it over the finish line."

(In case you're wondering, Google tells me that this is not wokeness.)

"That evening, Pfizer officials informed a key F.D.A. official of its news, along with a short list of others. Bidenís
team was alerted to the development that night. But in a sign of the suspicions that mark the Trump administration,
the presidentís top health officials did not learn of the news until the next morning, when it became public."

The Trump administration, or FDA officials?
It is very important that any vaccine work for all genetic makeups.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 23, 2020, 08:39:53 PM
The Trump administration, or FDA officials?

It's cute that you still see them as separate entities.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 25, 2020, 01:04:49 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-25/covid-19-dry-cleaners-face-a-reckoning-in-work-from-home-economy

I guess cleaners that serve the Jewish market are doing much better.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on November 25, 2020, 01:18:05 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-25/covid-19-dry-cleaners-face-a-reckoning-in-work-from-home-economy

I guess cleaners that serve the Jewish market are doing much better.

They might be doing relatively better but still struggling...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on November 25, 2020, 02:28:21 PM
Quote
ĎZombieí minks rise from Denmarkís mass graves after COVID-19 slaughter
https://nypost.com/2020/11/25/zombie-minks-rise-from-grave-in-denmark-after-slaughter/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on November 25, 2020, 02:30:36 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/11/25/zombie-minks-rise-from-grave-in-denmark-after-slaughter/

Clickbait headline!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: NTorch on November 25, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
Clickbait headline!

It got me to click on it!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 27, 2020, 08:58:19 AM
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/delta-to-launch-first-quarantine-free-flight-between-atlanta-and-rome
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 27, 2020, 11:32:25 AM
https://web.archive.org/web/20201126163323/https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19 (https://web.archive.org/web/20201126163323/https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19)


Seems the original link was pulled. This is a student newsletter and seems to be in contradiction of other research.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 27, 2020, 02:22:33 PM
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yef on November 29, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
https://matzav.com/watch-top-pathologist-dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-response-is-greatest-medical-hoax-ever-perpetrated/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 29, 2020, 03:24:32 PM
https://matzav.com/watch-top-pathologist-dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-response-is-greatest-medical-hoax-ever-perpetrated/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 29, 2020, 03:34:22 PM
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/

It is disappointing that Matzav has gone the way of YW. It wasn't always this way.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 29, 2020, 03:40:22 PM
It is disappointing that Matzav has gone the way of YW. It wasn't always this way.

Honestly, I didn't watch what they posted. I just saw them claim "top pathologist" and googled the guy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on November 29, 2020, 03:51:46 PM
It is disappointing that Matzav has gone the way of YW. It wasn't always this way.
You do know that they also have a newspaper with this exact MO...?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on November 29, 2020, 04:29:31 PM
It is disappointing that Matzav has gone the way of YW. It wasn't always this way.
You do know that they also have a newspaper with this exact MO...?

Not really the place for this comment, but the Jewish media "establishment" is extremely disappointing.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on November 29, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
Not really the place for this comment, but the Jewish media "establishment" is extremely disappointing.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115495.0
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on November 29, 2020, 04:40:51 PM
You do know that they also have a newspaper with this exact MO...?
The main curator for Matzav, who posts 98 percent of their stories, has no connection to the newspaper owned by some of the same owners. There is rarely any crossover of news between the Matzav and the newspaper.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 29, 2020, 05:07:12 PM
Not really the place for this comment, but the Jewish media "establishment" is extremely disappointing.

Disappointment only comes with expectations. I don't expect anything of any quality, so whenever it's anything above the level of a Supermarket tabloid, it is a surprise.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on November 29, 2020, 05:47:42 PM
the Jewish media "establishment" is extremely disappointing.
So is the non-jewish
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on November 29, 2020, 11:05:37 PM
You do know that they also have a newspaper with this exact MO...?
I disagree. The Yated is far more selective and credible with their sources, although they are of course strongly slanted one way politically.

Matzah recently has been a total joke.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 29, 2020, 11:07:01 PM
I disagree. The Yated is far more selective and credible with their sources, although they are of course strongly slanted one way politically.

Matzah recently has been a total joke.
It has basically become a mirror site for Newsmax.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on November 29, 2020, 11:07:45 PM
I disagree. The Yated is far more selective and credible with their sources, although they are of course strongly slanted one way politically.
If you consider political talking heads and radio show hosts as credible sources, yes.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on November 29, 2020, 11:09:43 PM
If you consider political talking heads and radio show hosts as credible sources, yes.
Compare it to Matzav and I think youíll agree theyíre not the same.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on November 29, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
Compare it to Matzav and I think youíll agree theyíre not the same.
Fair enough; though the MO of blurring opinion and news is similar. 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on November 29, 2020, 11:26:43 PM
Fair enough; though the MO of blurring opinion and news is similar.
Wait, you mean the Yated has some news in it?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on November 30, 2020, 07:22:51 AM
Wait, you mean the Yated has some news in it?
Aside from the original new articles written by Yated writers, which definitely skew Conservative, they (like Hamodia) reprint tons of articles from syndicate sources, like the New York Times news service, The Washington Post, and the Associated Press.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: justaregularguy on November 30, 2020, 01:51:42 PM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/were-not-backing-down-staten-island-pub-declares-itself-autonomous-zone-in-defiance-of-cuomo

🤣🤣
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on November 30, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 01, 2020, 12:46:24 AM
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
Quote
Japan is the only G-7 country where suicide is the leading manner of death for young people aged 15 to 39. And suicides among those under 20 had been increasing even before the pandemic, according to health ministry.
Wow. Thatís really sad.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 01, 2020, 10:11:13 AM
Wow. Thatís really sad.

At those ages I would be surprised if it is different in any advanced economy that's not engaged in war.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 01, 2020, 10:43:52 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-likely-in-u-s-in-mid-december-2019-cdc-scientists-report-11606782449?mod=e2tw (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-likely-in-u-s-in-mid-december-2019-cdc-scientists-report-11606782449?mod=e2tw)

In analyzing the blood samples, the CDC scientists found antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon and Washington state collected between December 13 and December 16.
The findings suggest there were isolated cases of coronavirus infection on the U.S. West Coast in mid-December, the scientists wrote.
They also found 67 samples with antibodies in Massachusetts, Michigan, Wisconsin or Iowa, and Connecticut or Rhode Island collected between Dec. 30 and Jan. 17.
Those findings indicated that cases were more dispersedóyet still isolatedóby early this year.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 01, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
At those ages I would be surprised if it is different in any advanced economy that's not engaged in war.
There is no advanced economy thatís engaged in war
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on December 01, 2020, 11:35:07 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-likely-in-u-s-in-mid-december-2019-cdc-scientists-report-11606782449?mod=e2tw (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-likely-in-u-s-in-mid-december-2019-cdc-scientists-report-11606782449?mod=e2tw)

In analyzing the blood samples, the CDC scientists found antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon and Washington state collected between December 13 and December 16.
The findings suggest there were isolated cases of coronavirus infection on the U.S. West Coast in mid-December, the scientists wrote.
They also found 67 samples with antibodies in Massachusetts, Michigan, Wisconsin or Iowa, and Connecticut or Rhode Island collected between Dec. 30 and Jan. 17.
Those findings indicated that cases were more dispersedóyet still isolatedóby early this year.
can anyone post the full article?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 01, 2020, 11:38:00 AM
can anyone post the full article?
The new coronavirus infected people in the U.S. in mid-December 2019, a few weeks before it was officially identified in China and about a month earlier than public health authorities found the first U.S. case, according to a government study published Monday.

The findings significantly strengthen evidence suggesting the virus was spreading around the world well before public health authorities and researchers became aware, upending initial thinking about how early and quickly it emerged.

Scientists at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found evidence of infection in 106 of 7,389 blood donations collected by the American Red Cross from residents in nine states across the U.S., according to the study published online in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases.
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The scientists based their study on blood samples that the American Red Cross collected between Dec. 13 and Jan. 17 and later sent to the CDC for testing to see if any had antibodies to the new coronavirus, which is named SARS-CoV-2.

ďSARS-CoV-2 infections may have been present in the U.S. in December 2019, earlier than previously recognized,Ē the authors wrote.

A personís immune system develops antibodies when exposed to a pathogen like a virus to fight it off. Their presence suggests exposure to a virus.

In analyzing the blood samples, the CDC scientists found antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon and Washington state collected between Dec. 13 and Dec. 16.

The findings suggest there were isolated cases of coronavirus infection on the U.S. West Coast in mid-December, the scientists wrote.

They also found 67 samples with antibodies in Massachusetts, Michigan, Wisconsin or Iowa, and Connecticut or Rhode Island collected between Dec. 30 and Jan. 17.

Those findings indicated that cases were more dispersedóyet still isolatedóby early this year.
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The scientists said they ruled out the possibility that the antibodies they found had developed to fight off other coronaviruses, which cause the common cold. They did that by looking for antibodies specific to the new coronavirus in 90 of the samples.

They said they found antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2 in 84 of the samples, or nearly all of them.

The results add to growing evidence suggesting Covid-19 was present outside of China earlier than previously known. Researchers found the virus, for example, in a retrospective analysis of a specimen from a patient who was hospitalized in France on Dec. 27, 2019.

The first Covid-19 case in the U.S. was reported on Jan. 19, two days after testing for the virus began there, the CDC researchers said. A young man returning from China a few days earlier suspected he might have the disease and sought care for his symptoms.

Two other people who were subsequently diagnosed in the U.S. also developed symptoms in mid-January.

Earlier studies have also suggested that Covid-19 had moved beyond just isolated cases and was spreading in communities in the U.S. by mid- to late-January, though epidemiologists say that the virus likely didnít circulate widely in communities until later in February.

The new study shows the value of screening routinely collected blood samples for evidence of viruses spreading in a population, the CDC authors said, adding that the agency is continuing to conduct surveillance for Covid-19 this way.

Not only did Covid-19 likely appear in the U.S. earlier than previously known, but researchers have found evidence that the virus is far more widespread in the U.S. than testing indicates.

Some 53 million people in the U.S. likely had contracted Covid-19 by the end of September, according to a modeling estimate published last week by CDC researchers. Roughly 6.9 million infections had been confirmed within that time period, suggesting that roughly one in every eight cases was identified.

Yet, the majority of the U.S. population hasnít been infected. On Nov. 24, a CDC study published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine estimated that fewer than 1% to 23% of people in the U.S. had antibodies, depending on the location.

Write to Betsy McKay at betsy.mckay@wsj.com

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8

Appeared in the December 1, 2020, print edition as 'Virus Was Likely In U.S. in Late 2019.'
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on December 01, 2020, 11:38:36 AM
thanks!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on December 01, 2020, 02:15:19 PM
There is no advanced economy thatís engaged in war

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 02:43:13 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/cdc-updates-quarantine-travel-advice-amid-winter-s-covid-threat

They had to wait this long to issue guidance that made sense months ago. Quarantine with daily testing most probably should end after no more than 5 or 6 days. But will anyone allow that level of relative freedom?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 02, 2020, 02:48:41 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/cdc-updates-quarantine-travel-advice-amid-winter-s-covid-threat

They had to wait this long to issue guidance that made sense months ago. Quarantine with daily testing most probably should end after no more than 5 or 6 days. But will anyone allow that level of relative freedom?
I know quite a few people who developed symptoms more than 7 days after exposure. I even know of one 14 days after (they were in quarantine). The CDC admits that one can still become infected after these dates but says this will boost compliance with a relatively lower risk of infection.

Tachlis. When can I come out of quarantine?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 02:50:24 PM
I know quite a few people who developed symptoms more than 7 days after exposure. I even know of one 14 days after (they were in quarantine). The CDC admits that one can still become infected after these dates but says this will boost compliance with a relatively lower risk of infection.

Tachlis. When can I come out of quarantine?

Who said anything about symptoms? Were the people who "developed symptoms more than 7 days after exposure" tested daily within those 7 days?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on December 02, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
I know quite a few people who developed symptoms more than 7 days after exposure.
but would they have tested positive already on day 7?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
but would they have tested positive already on day 7?

Why obfuscate with facts?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on December 02, 2020, 03:04:29 PM
Why obfuscate with facts?
It was a question, not facts, so we're good
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
It was a question, not facts, so we're good

And mine was a Jewish answer to a question! (sarcastically pointing out that the claim brought forth by @S209 had nothing to do with the science that would show that quarantine with testing likely to be of sufficient length at less than 7 days).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 02, 2020, 04:17:27 PM
And mine was a Jewish answer to a question! (sarcastically pointing out that the claim brought forth by @S209 had nothing to do with the science that would show that quarantine with testing likely to be of sufficient length at less than 7 days).
Source for this science that they would test positive after 7 days even if not yet showing symptoms? (for this they wouldn't even need daily testing-just test on day 7)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 04:32:16 PM
Source for this science that they would test positive after 7 days even if not yet showing symptoms? (for this they wouldn't even need daily testing-just test on day 7)

לא ראינו אינה ראיה  :P

I don't read everything out there, but I seem to recall seeing something about it. Maybe @biobook can chime in.

Is there any source to show otherwise? That people have gone into quarantine (Isolation) and tested negative on day 1 and day 7 (and preferably all days in between) and yet started presenting symptoms after 7 days of isolation and negative tests?

ETA:

My post was about the fact that @S209's post has nothing to do with any sciene, showing one way or the other, in regards to testing negative after 5 or 6 days in isolation after exposure and being safely cleared from isolation/quarantine.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 02, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
לא ראינו אינה ראיה  :P

I don't read everything out there, but I seem to recall seeing something about it. Maybe @biobook can chime in.

Is there any source to show otherwise? That people have gone into quarantine (Isolation) and tested negative on day 1 and day 7 (and preferably all days in between) and yet started presenting symptoms after 7 days of isolation and negative tests?

ETA:

My post was about the fact that @S209's post has nothing to do with any sciene, showing one way or the other, in regards to testing negative after 5 or 6 days in isolation after exposure and being safely cleared from isolation/quarantine.

Then @etech0 had written it correctly as a question. Since you wrote it is an answer, your answer is unproven and therefore unreliable. Your claim about his ignoring some sort of science that you made up is stam silly.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 02, 2020, 08:25:34 PM
And mine was a Jewish answer to a question! (sarcastically pointing out that the claim brought forth by @S209 had nothing to do with the science that would show that quarantine with testing likely to be of sufficient length at less than 7 days).
Some quotes from the article you posted:
Quote
The idea is that quarantines shorter than 14 days carry low infection risks and will boost compliance, CDC officials said on a call with reporters.

Quote
The agency still recommends previous guidance outlining a 14-day quarantine for people who may have been exposed to the novel coronavirus. But the officials said the new time limits were being suggested based on modeling by the agency, academic centers and public health departments.

Quote
ďAll of these point in the same direction, which is that we can safely reduce the length of quarantine, but accepting there is a small residual risk that a person who is leaving quarantine early could transmit to someone else if they became infectious,Ē said John Brooks, chief medical officer for the CDCís Covid-19 response.

Seems like testing on day 7 does *not* eliminate the risk, but does alleviate it to a large extent. Right now weíre not at a place as a country where we are going to eliminate each path of infection but compliance is waning, so they are taking a calculated risk designed to increase compliance and reduce overall spread.

A Nafka Mina? If the shorter length is just to increase compliance, itís quite probable that halachically one must still wait the full 14 days. This isnít hypothetical- I am quarantined at the moment due to exposure to my wife.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 02, 2020, 08:39:15 PM
Here is what they  said: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html)

Quote
Options to reduce quarantine
CDC and other scientists have explored changing the current recommendation to quarantine for 14 days after last exposure. Reducing the length of quarantine may make it easier for people to quarantine by reducing economic hardship if they cannot work during this time. In addition, a shorter quarantine period can lessen stress on the public health system, especially when new infections are rapidly rising.

Local public health authorities make the final decisions about how long quarantine should last in the communities they serve, based on local conditions and needs. Follow the recommendations of your local public health department if you need to quarantine.

CDC now recommends two additional options for how long quarantine should last. Based on local availability of viral testing, for people without symptoms quarantine can end:

On day 10 without testing
On day 7 after receiving a negative test result
After stopping quarantine, people should

Watch for symptoms until 14 days after exposure.
If they have symptoms, immediately self-isolate and contact their local public health authority or healthcare provider.
Wear a mask, stay at least 6 feet from others, wash their hands, avoid crowds, and take other steps to prevent the spread of COVID-19.
CDC continues to endorse quarantine for 14 days and recognizes that any quarantine shorter than 14 days balances reduced burden against a small possibility of spreading the virus. CDC will continue to evaluate new information and update recommendations as needed. See Options to Reduce Quarantine for Contacts of Persons with SARS-CoV-2 Infection Using Symptom Monitoring and Diagnostic Testing for guidance on options to reduce quarantine.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 02, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
In February I had an upset stomach 6 days after I was in NYC, but didn't get a fever until 10 days after exposure.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 02, 2020, 09:12:37 PM
In February I had an upset stomach 6 days after I was in NYC, but didn't get a fever until 10 days after exposure.
You may have tested positive by day 7 though.

(Although my mother tested negative on Monday and positive on Tuesday after having symptoms for 2 days already).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: etech0 on December 02, 2020, 09:14:26 PM
You may have tested positive by day 7 though.

(Although my mother tested negative on Monday and positive on Tuesday after having symptoms for 2 days already).
were those rapid tests or pcr/molecular?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 09:21:13 PM
were those rapid tests or pcr/molecular?
Were they testing people who didn't have difficulty breathing or high fever back then? Not IME.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on December 02, 2020, 10:50:18 PM
At those ages I would be surprised if it is different in any advanced economy that's not engaged in war.

@ExGingi

In the USA, death by "unintentional injury" is between 2 and 3 times more common:
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2015-a.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2016-508.pdf 
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 02, 2020, 11:10:15 PM
were those rapid tests or pcr/molecular?
Negative rapid and PCR on Monday, then positive PCR on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 02, 2020, 11:11:37 PM
@ExGingi

In the USA, death by "unintentional injury" is between 2 and 3 times more common:
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2015-a.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2016-508.pdf
That includes car accidents
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2020, 11:39:54 PM
@ExGingi

In the USA, death by "unintentional injury" is between 2 and 3 times more common:
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2015-a.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2016-508.pdf

Where's drug OD?

Also the chart might be misleading. I would assume that deaths from DM at young ages (most likely hypoglycemic shock) are very different than DM deaths (more likely complications such as heart and kidney issues) at older ages.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 03, 2020, 01:55:56 AM
לא ראינו אינה ראיה  :P

I don't read everything out there, but I seem to recall seeing something about it. Maybe @biobook can chime in.

Is there any source to show otherwise? That people have gone into quarantine (Isolation) and tested negative on day 1 and day 7 (and preferably all days in between) and yet started presenting symptoms after 7 days of isolation and negative tests?
Not sure what you're asking. 
I don't think anyone is testing every day, for 7 days, because there's not an abundance of available tests.
Are you asking: Are there people who first develop symptoms more than 7 days post-exposure, even though they've had one or more negative tests?  I think the answer is yes.

Some quotes from the article you posted:
Seems like testing on day 7 does *not* eliminate the risk, but does alleviate it to a large extent. Right now weíre not at a place as a country where we are going to eliminate each path of infection but compliance is waning, so they are taking a calculated risk designed to increase compliance and reduce overall spread.

A Nafka Mina? If the shorter length is just to increase compliance, itís quite probable that halachically one must still wait the full 14 days. This isnít hypothetical- I am quarantined at the moment due to exposure to my wife.
Not sure that the CDC would give a halachic determination, but they probably would put it this way:

Most people (99%?) who develop symptoms do so within 14 days after exposure, so everyone should isolate for that time.

But many people began to rebel against this chumrah, and went OTD, refusing to isolate at all.

So the CDC says, Okay, We'll be makel, you can isolate for just 10 days, or 7 with a negative test. That should still block most (90%?) of transmissions.

But they add, Kol hamarbeh levoded 14 yom, harei zeh meshubach.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 03, 2020, 02:08:07 AM
Some more quotes:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/health/coronavirus-quarantine-period.html

Travelers returning home should keep nonessential activities to a minimum for at least seven days if they are getting tested, and for 10 days if they are not getting tested. (Many states already require travelers to self-quarantine after arrival, though the rules vary from state to state.)

Federal health officials also offered two new ways to shorten quarantine periods. Those without symptoms may end quarantine after seven days if they are tested for the virus and receive a negative result, or after 10 days without a negative test.

P.C.R. or rapid tests are both acceptable, the officials said, and should be taken within 48 hours of the end of the quarantine period. People should continue to watch for symptoms for 14 days.

(Quarantine refers to people who are well but may become ill; isolation refers to those known to be ill.)

Until now, the C.D.C. has recommended a 14-day quarantine period following potential exposure, and Dr. Walke stressed that the full two weeks is still considered ideal and the surest way to curb transmissions.

While a shortened quarantine period may be more palatable to Americans, officials acknowledged that the new guidance might lead to some infections being missed.

“We can safely reduce the length of quarantine, but accepting that there is a small residual risk that a person who is leaving quarantine early could transmit to someone else if they became infected,” said Dr. John Brooks, the chief medical officer for the Covid-19 response at the C.D.C.

Some patients may not develop symptoms until two weeks after exposure, and even longer in a very small fraction of cases. Infected individuals may pass the virus to others before they develop symptoms; recent studies show they are most infectious two days before symptoms begin, and for about five days afterward.


https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t1202-covid-19-telebriefing.html

BUSINESS INSIDER: HI, YEAH, THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL.  MY QUESTION.  I WANTED TO ASK MORE SPECIFICS ABOUT THE TESTING OUT OF QUARANTINE.  WHEN IS THE BEST TIME TO DO THAT?  SHOULD PEOPLE GET A TEST ON THE FIRST DAY OF QUARANTINE, ON THE FIFTH DAY OF QUARANTINE?  TALK ABOUT LIKE WHEN IS THE BEST TIME?

BROOKS: WELL, THE RECOMMENDATION FOR DISCONTINUATION OF QUARANTINE IS DAY SEVEN WITH A NEGATIVE TEST.  OUR MODELLING SHOWS — LET ME REPHRASE THAT OUR MODELLING WAS BASED ON COLLECTING THE SPECIMEN WITHIN THE 48 HOURS PRIOR TO THE TIME OF ANTICIPATED DISCHARGE.  SO IT COULD BE A TEST THAT WAS DONE THAT DAY IF YOU HAVE AN ANTIGEN TEST, BUT WE PROVIDE THE POSSIBILITY OF COLLECTING SPECIMEN UP TO 48 HOURS BEFOREHAND IF THEY HAVE A PCR TEST WHICH MAY TAKE A DAY OR TWO TO GET THE RESULT BACK.
....

BROOKS: THAT’S RIGHT.  THEY COULD BE TESTED ON DAY FIVE IF THAT — BUT THEY HAVE TO COMPLETE SEVEN DAYS OF QUARANTINE.  I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.  IT CAN BE ANY TIME IN THE 48 HOURS PRIOR TO THE ANTICIPATED TIME OF DISCHARGE, BUT THEY DO HAVE TO GET ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF SEVEN DAYS REGARDLESS OF WHEN THE RESULT OF THE TEST COMES BACK.  IF THE TEST HASN’T COME BACK BY THE END OF SEVEN DAYS, THEY CAN DISCONTINUE QUARANTINING WHEN THEY GET THE NEGATIVE RESULT.  THEY NEED THE NEGATIVE RESULT TO DISCONTINUE.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 03, 2020, 02:11:24 AM
So the CDC says, Okay, We'll be makel, you can isolate for just 10 days, or 7 with a negative test. That should still block most (90%?) of transmissions.

But they add, Kol hamarbeh levoded 14 yom, harei zeh meshubach.
I understand. My question is, what is my actual Halachic hishtadlus? How rare is it for that to happen? @ExGingi seemed to be implying it *never* happens.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 03, 2020, 02:50:45 AM
I understand. My question is, what is my actual Halachic hishtadlus? How rare is it for that to happen? @ExGingi seemed to be implying it *never* happens.
You mean how rare is it for someone to be asymptomatic yet contagious more than 7-10 days after exposure?  Or how rare is it for someone to develop symptoms more than 7-10 days after exposure?  IDK.  I think you have to consider both the probability of that and the places you'll go (to financially-necessary workplace or visiting vulnerable relatives). 

The CDC based their new guidelines in part on a recent Lancet article, but I haven't read it.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30172-5/fulltext

Even the press release is rather long. 
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/tl-pss111920.php

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 03, 2020, 03:52:23 AM
You mean how rare is it for someone to be asymptomatic yet contagious more than 7-10 days after exposure?  Or how rare is it for someone to develop symptoms more than 7-10 days after exposure?  IDK.  I think you have to consider both the probability of that and the places you'll go (to financially-necessary workplace or visiting vulnerable relatives). 

The CDC based their new guidelines in part on a recent Lancet article, but I haven't read it.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30172-5/fulltext

Even the press release is rather long. 
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-11/tl-pss111920.php
The article does not examine people who are exposed, only people who already have a positive test. They do not suggest anything vis a vis quarantining of contacts.

Key takeaway: Most live viral shedding occurs in the first 5 days from onset of symptoms (no surprise there). More interestingly,

Quote
Of the eleven studies that attempted to isolate the live virus, all eight studies included that used respiratory samples successfully managed to culture viable virus within the first week of illness.

No study included in this systematic review managed to successfully isolate live virus beyond day nine of symptoms in any type of sample, despite persistently high viral RNA loads.

It would seem that 10 days from onset of symptoms is sufficient to end isolation, regardless of worsening/lingering symptoms.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 08:47:13 AM
Not sure what you're asking. 
I don't think anyone is testing every day, for 7 days, because there's not an abundance of available tests.
Are you asking: Are there people who first develop symptoms more than 7 days post-exposure, even though they've had one or more negative tests?  I think the answer is yes.
Not sure that the CDC would give a halachic determination, but they probably would put it this way:

Most people (99%?) who develop symptoms do so within 14 days after exposure, so everyone should isolate for that time.

But many people began to rebel against this chumrah, and went OTD, refusing to isolate at all.

So the CDC says, Okay, We'll be makel, you can isolate for just 10 days, or 7 with a negative test. That should still block most (90%?) of transmissions.

But they add, Kol hamarbeh levoded 14 yom, harei zeh meshubach.

Why are we conflating positive PCR tests (which is what I was talking about) and symptoms?

Has there been ANY study showing that a person who was exposed, went into isolation, and tested negative (preferably daily, but at least twice - 3 days apart), subsequently tested positive on day 6 or beyond? (PCR tests).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 03, 2020, 09:46:12 AM
Why are we conflating positive PCR tests (which is what I was talking about) and symptoms?

Has there been ANY study showing that a person who was exposed, went into isolation, and tested negative (preferably daily, but at least twice - 3 days apart), subsequently tested positive on day 6 or beyond? (PCR tests).
Not a study, but I personally know more than one person that happened to.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 03, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
NY study showing that a person who was exposed, went into isolation, and tested negative (preferably daily, but at least twice - 3 days apart), subsequently tested positive on day 6 or beyond? (PCR tests).
Have there been any studies that indicated otherwise?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 03, 2020, 01:30:38 PM
WH cluster
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 03, 2020, 01:42:05 PM
Why are we conflating positive PCR tests (which is what I was talking about) and symptoms?

Because I'm slow-witted.  I'm not even sure what "we" means in the above sentence.  You and I?  Everyone here?  The Royal We?  Or what you mean when you say you're taking about positive PCR tests, when before you were talking about negative tests.

That people have gone into quarantine (Isolation) and tested negative on day 1 and day 7 (and preferably all days in between) and yet started presenting symptoms after 7 days of isolation and negative tests?

Okay, maybe the above was a rhetorical question, and this is the only one I should respond to:
 
Quote
Has there been ANY study showing that a person who was exposed, went into isolation, and tested negative (preferably daily, but at least twice - 3 days apart), subsequently tested positive on day 6 or beyond? (PCR tests).

You're asking about a very specific result, but to answer that, I have to search for the research study they would have done to get that result.  Are you thinking of a study like this:

Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
Because I'm slow-witted.  I'm not even sure what "we" means in the above sentence.  You and I?  Everyone here?  The Royal We?  Or what you mean when you say you're taking about positive PCR tests, when before you were talking about negative tests.
We. As in anyone participating in the discussion and bringing up symptoms (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic) when my argument is about PCR testing (whether positive or negative).

Are you thinking of a study like this:

Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear.

Exactly. Such a study would be a simple one to conduct, and there are tens of thousands (probably a lot more) of people around the globe being sent to isolation due to exposure. All that needs to happen to understand the effects better is daily testing of significant sample.

With almost a year of global turmoil over this pandemic, one would imagine that this is one of the first things people determining policy would want to know.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 03, 2020, 01:58:53 PM
We. As in anyone participating in the discussion and bringing up symptoms (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic).

Exactly. Such a study would be a simple one to conduct, and there are tens of thousands (probably a lot more) of people around the globe being sent to isolation due to exposure. All that needs to happen to understand the effects better is daily testing of significant sample.
Yes, but there hasnít been a study conducted to date that shows either result (AFAIK). So why would we call this approach any more based on ďscienceĒ than the original approach (which was based on people exhibiting symptoms 2-14 days from exposure)?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
Yes, but there hasnít been a study conducted to date that shows either result (AFAIK). So why would we call this approach any more based on ďscienceĒ than the original approach (which was based on people exhibiting symptoms 2-14 days from exposure)?

See my edit above.

Was there indeed no such study conducted?

#MostPoliticizedVirusEver
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 03, 2020, 02:33:37 PM
See my edit above.

Was there indeed no such study conducted?

#MostPoliticizedVirusEver
If no study was conducted, that would mean no scientists with any political affiliations chose to conduct it. Was one?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 03, 2020, 02:40:51 PM
Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear.


Exactly. Such a study would be a simple one to conduct, and there are tens of thousands (probably a lot more) of people around the globe being sent to isolation due to exposure. All that needs to happen to understand the effects better is daily testing of significant sample.

With almost a year of global turmoil over this pandemic, one would imagine that this is one of the first things people determining policy would want to know.

So the reason you want this study to be done is so that people could exit isolation more rapidly after exposure, right?  I don't see why you would expect that to be "one of the first things" policymakers would want to know.  True, tens of thousands of possibly infected people are sent to isolation, but 64 million people have been definitely infected, and identifying and caring for that group takes priority in determining policy. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the study you suggest has NOT been done, because labs have been overwhelmed in analyzing tests of people who have symptoms and may need treatment, so it doesn't make sense to use the tests to research your question, let alone use the tests for asymptomatic people who simply want to leave isolation.

But I'll search and see what I can find.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 02:44:10 PM
Not a study, but I personally know more than one person that happened to.

OK. Can you describe the details?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 03, 2020, 05:50:40 PM
OK. Can you describe the details?
Very simple. They quarantined due to exposure and took tests after 2-3 days and then later had symptoms and tested positive.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 06:47:07 PM
Very simple. They quarantined due to exposure and took tests after 2-3 days and then later had symptoms and tested positive.

So they didn't test on day 4 and 5?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 06:55:14 PM
So the reason you want this study to be done is so that people could exit isolation more rapidly after exposure, right?  I don't see why you would expect that to be "one of the first things" policymakers would want to know.  True, tens of thousands of possibly infected people are sent to isolation, but 64 million people have been definitely infected, and identifying and caring for that group takes priority in determining policy. 

Stopping the spread with minimal damage to people's lives should be high on the list of policy makers. We aren't talking about China and Iran where there is 0 respect for human rights, and a totalitarian regime will just weld people into their homes. If that were the case, put the entire population on lockdown for 30 days and the thing is eradicated!

Where did 14 days come from? Why not 15, 16, or more? If a reliable study can be conducted, a more accurate number of safe days can be concluded. An operation like they had in Slovakia could be prime grounds for such a study.

It wouldn't surprise me if the study you suggest has NOT been done, because labs have been overwhelmed in analyzing tests of people who have symptoms and may need treatment, so it doesn't make sense to use the tests to research your question, let alone use the tests for asymptomatic people who simply want to leave isolation.
Now you are talking money and politics. If none of those were a consideration, investing in massive testing would probably yield much better bang for the buck than current methods and races to develop vaccines in record-breaking time. But there are money and political reasons not to go that route.

But I'll search and see what I can find.
Greatly appreciated.

I would love to also see a real scientific study of what's going on in Williamsburg and Crown Heights (and presumably also KJ, and possibly also Boro Park and Monsey). Official "science" or not, there are observable facts that cannot be ignored. (and it seems like the Gedalia Society has evaporated into oblivion as far as this is concerned, once they couldn't argue with the observable facts any longer).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 03, 2020, 07:00:39 PM
Now you are talking money and politics. If none of those were a consideration, investing in massive testing would probably yield much better bang for the buck than current methods and races to develop vaccines in record-breaking time. But there are money and political reasons not to go that route.
Greatly appreciated.

I would love to also see a real scientific study of what's going on in Williamsburg and Crown Heights (and presumably also KJ, and possibly also Boro Park and Monsey). Official "science" or not, there are observable facts that cannot be ignored. (and it seems like the Gedalia Society has evaporated into oblivion as far as this is concerned, once they couldn't argue with the observable facts any longer).
The US didn't invest in improving testing bc Trump wants less testing.

You claimed your 'observable facts' already in May. It's all anecdotal and your perception has been proven false.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 03, 2020, 07:10:11 PM
Where did 14 days come from? Why not 15, 16, or more? If a reliable study can be conducted, a more accurate number of safe days can be concluded. An operation like they had in Slovakia could be prime grounds for such a study.
It has been known since February that the incubation period is 2-14 days.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 07:12:12 PM
The US didn't invest in improving testing bc Trump wants less testing.

You claimed your 'observable facts' already in May. It's all anecdotal and your perception has been proven false.

You, my dear sir, are biased beyond your own recognition. Your first claim is more baseless than my allegations, and your second claim is without any support for said "proof".
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 07:15:07 PM
It has been known since February that the incubation period is 2-14 days.

Yet in February testing was scant. Tests have improved and become widely available. It begs to be properly studied what is the shortest period of isolation really needed for safety.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 03, 2020, 07:21:53 PM
You, my dear sir, are biased beyond your own recognition. Your first claim is more baseless than my allegations, and your second claim is without any support for said "proof".
Trump sets policy for the US. Trump has said many times he asked if we can do less test.
I won't waste my energy searching for your posts, since we both know nothing will change your opinion, but stop kidding yourself that your observations have anything to do with facts. This isn't the first time you 'saw' herd immunity.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 09:50:55 PM
I won't waste my energy searching for your posts, since we both know nothing will change your opinion, but stop kidding yourself that your observations have anything to do with facts. This isn't the first time you 'saw' herd immunity.

I don't know about you, but when facts change, I do change my mind. I am also open to hear opposing viewpoints and will admit if I believe I am wrong.

Have you actually been to Crown Heights or Williamsburg and actually observed what goes on, before arguing?

The fact is that most people go around without masks and do not observe any type of physical distancing, regardless of setting (indoor, crowded, singing, etc.).

Another fact is that there haven't been any COVID-19 outbreaks or spikes in these communities. Some isolated cases - yes. But an outbreak of any significant magnitude - I haven't heard of any (and I know there are those that would rush to make it known if it did exist).

Another fact is that even the staunchest of advocates of listening to the doctors, has stopped wearing a mask, and is seen mingling with crowds without a mask.

Now make all the arguments you want to, but it might be a good idea to first visit these communities and observe things first hand.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 03, 2020, 10:00:28 PM
I don't know about you, but when facts change, I do change my mind. I am also open to hear opposing viewpoints and will admit if I believe I am wrong.

Have you actually been to Crown Heights or Williamsburg and actually observed what goes on, before arguing?

The fact is that most people go around without masks and do not observe any type of physical distancing, regardless of setting (indoor, crowded, singing, etc.).

Another fact is that there haven't been any COVID-19 outbreaks or spikes in these communities. Some isolated cases - yes. But an outbreak of any significant magnitude - I haven't heard of any (and I know there are those that would rush to make it known if it did exist).

Another fact is that even the staunchest of advocates of listening to the doctors, has stopped wearing a mask, and is seen mingling with crowds without a mask.

Now make all the arguments you want to, but it might be a good idea to first visit these communities and observe things first hand.
The fallacy is that none of these observations prove the conclusion of herd immunity.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 03, 2020, 11:57:26 PM
The fallacy is that none of these observations prove the conclusion of herd immunity.

Did I say anything about herd immunity recently, or more specifically in the context of the current discussion of begging for scientific studies of phenomena that can be studied by observation of large real world samples?

As I said above, you seem to be unaware of the extent to which your bias is affecting your arguments.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 04, 2020, 12:21:10 AM
Did I say anything about herd immunity recently, or more specifically in the context of the current discussion of begging for scientific studies of phenomena that can be studied by observation of large real world samples?

As I said above, you seem to be unaware of the extent to which your bias is affecting your arguments.
You're not claiming herd immunity, only claiming it as a mysterious phenomena in the second part of the same sentence. Give me a break.

Being biased doesn't make me wrong. You're infinitely more biased than me, you've been parading a myriad of different pseudo 'theories' all to justify not wearing a mask, heaven forbid. My opinion has been constant since Covid started.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 04, 2020, 12:43:15 AM
You're not claiming herd immunity, only claiming it as a mysterious phenomena in the second part of the same sentence. Give me a break.

Being biased doesn't make me wrong. You're infinitely more biased than me, you've been parading a myriad of different pseudo 'theories' all to justify not wearing a mask, heaven forbid. My opinion has been constant since Covid started.

Come and tour Crown Heights and Williamsburg, and then you'll be entitled to a break.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 04, 2020, 10:08:53 AM
I would love to also see a real scientific study of what's going on in Williamsburg and Crown Heights (and presumably also KJ, and possibly also Boro Park and Monsey).

I believe by now KJ, BP, Monsey, and New Square are also experiencing practically the same. So he can come visit any or all of those communities to see for himself.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 04, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
I believe by now KJ, BP, Monsey, and New Square are also experiencing practically the same. So he can come visit any or all of those communities to see for himself.
I know of multiple classes in a Monsey school currently shut due to COVID cases. I also know a few people whoíve had COVID there in the last month.

As for BP, didnít someone recently post something about 150 cases from a wedding?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Jellybelly on December 04, 2020, 02:15:41 PM
I know of multiple classes in a Monsey school currently shut due to COVID cases. I also know a few people whoíve had COVID there in the last month.

As for BP, didnít someone recently post something about 150 cases from a wedding?
Just cuz someone posted it here, doesnít make it true
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2020, 03:21:00 PM
Just cuz someone posted it here, doesnít make it true
Unless it fits what you want to believe.....
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 04, 2020, 03:33:46 PM
Unless it fits what you want to believe.....

Which is why אינה דומה שמיעה לראיה, and those that haven't been to the respected communities would be best advised to keep their opinions about them to themselves.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Which is why אינה דומה שמיעה לראיה, and those that haven't been to the respected communities would be best advised to keep their opinions about them to themselves.
What people see and don't see is also subject to the same rule.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 04, 2020, 03:44:09 PM
I know of multiple classes in a Monsey school currently shut due to COVID cases. I also know a few people whoíve had COVID there in the last month.

As for BP, didnít someone recently post something about 150 cases from a wedding?

CH, Williamsburg, BP, KJ, and New Square do not all have zero cases. There are cases there too but not at the levels previously experienced, no school closures that I'm aware of. He was referring to the behaviors in CH and Williamsburg and that's what I was referring to as well from observations over the past few weeks attending weddings in these other communities.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 05, 2020, 07:41:10 PM
I understand. My question is, what is my actual Halachic hishtadlus? How rare is it for that to happen?
Hishtadlus is abstaining from hurting onceself. Avoiding going out and infecting others (if required) has nothing to do with Hishtadlus, it is בחירה, and is a much higher standard. Hishtadlus is subject to Emunah, Madreigos, שומר פתאים ה׳, eco.

One does Hishtadlus to earn a livelihood, because ultimately he doesn't have the power and it comes from Hashem.
One doesn't steal because he was fully granted the power of בחירה to do so.

One davens for Parnassa because Hishtadlus is a condition but not a cause.
One doesn't directly daven not to steal because it's in his power (yes I know we ask for help in overcoming the Yetzer Hara, it's a complicated topic)

Rashbi downplays the need of Hishtadlus. לא יעלה על דעת that he would allow absence of the required caution in damaging others.

The bar of not damaging others is far higher. תוספות (בבא קמא כג ע"א ועוד מקומות) "יותר יש לאדם ליזהר עצמו שלא יזיק אחרים משלא יוזק".

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 05, 2020, 07:59:38 PM

The bar of not damaging others is far higher. תוספות (בבא קמא כג ע"א ועוד מקומות) "יותר יש לאדם ליזהר עצמו שלא יזיק אחרים משלא יוזק".

You're right.

Now where is any evidence or indication that people who recovered from COVID-19 present any threat to others?

For some reason the Israeli MOH doesn't believe so, and exempts COVID-19 recoverees from any quarantine requirements (and AFAIK don't put any time limit on it).

(I am aware that @S209 might not be a recoveree, my point is that there are situations where health officials see no benefit in isolation/quarantine).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 05, 2020, 08:18:05 PM
Now where is any evidence or indication that people who recovered from COVID-19 present any threat to others?
Not sure what this has to do with my post. I didn't opine on specific thresholds, I just pointed out Hishtadlus is the wrong term here. The conversation wasn't about people who recovered from Covid, it was about somebody who exposed to Covid and never tested positive.

But to answer your question, there are plenty of documented cases of Covid Reinfection. That is definitely 'any evidence'.

I personally believe, like you, that the bulk of evidence suggests that the risk is extremely small. What the exact halachic line is I don't know, but my guess would be one isn't obligated to quarantine if he recovered from Covid 19 and was re-exposed. There is room to differentiate between quarantine, which is more onerous and not required by some public health authorities (Israel, US CDC), and wearing a mask, which is less onerous and required by those health authorities. It is quite likely not quarantining is still considered הולך כדרכו, but not wearing a mask is breaking from a required norm, and therefore necessary even if the risk of damage is minimal.

 המשנה במסכת בבא קמא (דף לב ע"א) אומרת כך:
"שנים שהיו מהלכים ברשות הרבים, אחד רץ ואחד מהלך או שהיו שניהם רצין והיזוקו זה את זה פטורין."
הגמרא במקום מבררת ומסבירה כי הפטור במקרה של אחד רץ והשני מהלך, הוא רק שמדובר בערב שבת בין השמשות, שאז הציבור כולו ממהר לסיים את מלאכתו עובר לכניסת השבת. לכן התנהגותו של הרץ אינה "משונה" והוא "רץ ברשות". לעומת זאת, ביום חול רגיל, אין זה נהוג לרוץ ברשות הרבים (וכך פוסק הרמב"ם, הלכות חובל ומזיק, פרק ו', הלכה ט'; והשולחן ערוך, חושן משפט, סימן שע"ח סעיפים ז'-ח').



What bothers me most about some of the frum attitude to Covid, is the misguided priorities. As if the 'power' of davening in a minyan/shul transcends the 'power' of actually doing what hashem wants us to do. החפץ לה׳ בעולות וזבחים משמוע בקול ה׳?

ת״ר חסידים הראשונים היו מצניעים קוצותיהם וזכוכיותיהם בתוך שדותיהן ומעמיקים להן ג׳ טפחים כדי שלא יעכב המחרישה.
רב ששת ישדי להו בנורא רבא כשדי להו בדגלת.
אמר רב יהודה האי מאן דבעי למהוי חסידא לקיים מילי דנזיקין

שולחן ערוך חושן משפט תט״ו:ג׳

(ג) מִדַּת חֲסִידוּת הוּא שֶׁיַּצְנִיעַ אָדָם קוֹצָיו וּשְׁאָר כָּל דָּבָר הַמַּזִּיק בְּמָקוֹם שֶׁלֹּא יָבֹא מֵהֶם תַּקָּלָה, כְּגוֹן שֶׁיַּשְׁלִיכֵם לַנָּהָר אוֹ יִשְׂרְפֵם.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 05, 2020, 09:55:31 PM
Unless it fits what you want to believe.....
I didnít say I believe it, I questioned an anecdotal assertion with anecdotal evidence.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 06, 2020, 02:57:33 PM
https://collive.com/meir-zarchi-celebrates-miraculous-covid-recovery

I guess it's because I'm from a compliant OOT location, but the irony in these pictures is something else.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 06, 2020, 03:48:00 PM
https://collive.com/meir-zarchi-celebrates-miraculous-covid-recovery

I guess it's because I'm from a compliant OOT location, but the irony in these pictures is something else.
That website is not something that I see, but I can only imagine what you are referring to.

I would suggest that the reason it seems ironic to you might be because the word compliant even comes to your mind.

Even people that wear masks, maintain distancing and avoid indoor crowds wouldn't dream of using such a term 'round here.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 06, 2020, 04:11:44 PM
compliant OOT location
wouldn't dream of using such a term 'round here.
Kabolas Ol'niks?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 06, 2020, 05:24:22 PM
Kabolas Ol'niks?

Wouldn't fly. Not when even the staunchest Rabbi stopped wearing masks in public and mingled with crowds indoors.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on December 06, 2020, 08:38:47 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/woman-coronavirus-super-spicy-losing-taste-weirdest-reaction
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 06, 2020, 10:05:30 PM
https://collive.com/meir-zarchi-celebrates-miraculous-covid-recovery

I guess it's because I'm from a compliant OOT location, but the irony in these pictures is something else.

I saw pictures elsewhere, what I think you're missing is that it is likely that more than 90% of participants had Covid-19 between Purim and Pesach. No one has reason to believe they are currently at risk of contracting COVID-19 or spreading it in any way.

Even the Gedalia Society has remained mum.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 06, 2020, 10:09:15 PM
Wouldn't fly. Not when even the staunchest Rabbi stopped wearing masks in public and mingled with crowds indoors.
I'm saying OOT communities are more Kabalos olnik than NYC.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 06, 2020, 10:24:02 PM
I'm saying OOT communities are more Kabalos olnik than NYC.

וועמענס עול?

Cuomo?

DeBlasio?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 06, 2020, 10:26:42 PM
וועמענס עול?

Cuomo?

DeBlasio?
Community leadership.
Let's be real, it's not like you were listening to the C"H B"D about masks when they said in no uncertain terms to wear them. That wouldn't happen OOT.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 06, 2020, 10:36:02 PM
Let's be real,
lol
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on December 06, 2020, 10:42:48 PM
lol

+1. Wrong board.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 06, 2020, 10:51:59 PM
Community leadership.
Let's be real, it's not like you were listening to the C"H B"D about masks when they said in no uncertain terms to wear them. That wouldn't happen OOT.

Which part wouldn't happen OOT? 🙊

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 06, 2020, 11:33:03 PM
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 07, 2020, 06:48:55 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-06/which-covid-19-rules-are-useless-too-many-of-them

This should be much louder IMHO. And is just further evidence that for the politicians it's all about power and control. If they really cared about science we would likely be in better shape (as a functioning economy, as well as physical and mental health).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on December 07, 2020, 07:50:58 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-06/which-covid-19-rules-are-useless-too-many-of-them

This should be much louder IMHO. And is just further evidence that for the politicians it's all about power and control. If they really cared about science we would likely be in better shape (as a functioning economy, as well as physical and mental health).

Wouldn't help. Murica.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on December 07, 2020, 08:16:48 AM
Wouldn't help. Murica.
Can't know till you try. Though it may be too late
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 07, 2020, 09:03:40 AM
Can't know till you try. Though it may be too late
You can look at places that supposedly did.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 07, 2020, 11:41:33 AM
https://archive.is/p6Kfz#selection-2775.0-3141.163

Quote
The sheer onslaught of horrible Covid-19 data can be hard for the human mind to process. So think of it this way: The way things are going, the disease will soon be killing as many Americans every day as terrorist attacks did on Sept. 11, 2001.

In recent days, the Thanksgiving holiday has made the data particularly difficult to read. A lot of people got tested last week before traveling to visit friends and relatives, so there was a big spike in the number of tests and the number of confirmed cases, both of which set new records. Probably a lot of asymptomatic people discovered that they were positive just as they were getting ready to go see Grandma.
Now, in the wake of that testing-driven surge, daily cases and the seven-day average are going down. But thatís no reason for relief: The decline merely reflects an enormous reporting lag from the long holiday weekend. Over the next several days, expect a big rebound in both confirmed cases and deaths.
Taking the artificial holiday fluctuations into account, the trend isnít pretty. The U.S. is averaging more than 140,000 cases a day and ó given the transmission potential of the holiday season ó appears likely to keep doing so at least through the end of the year. This means thereís a lot of suffering yet to come.
How much suffering? Letís start with deaths. Covid-19 kills an estimated 2% of the people it infects. So of the 140,000 getting sick every day, eventually about 2,800 will die. Thatís nearly as many as on 9/11, for each day that new infections remain at about 140,000 ó and weíve already been at that level for 21 days. On average, the deaths will happen about 12 days after people get sick. 1   Depending on the state, they might take as long as another month to get recorded and appear in the official data.
Thatís not all. A significant portion of those who survive will become ďlong-haulersĒ ó people who do not fully recover within a few weeks or months, experiencing symptoms such as brain fog and fatigue that can render them unable to work. Studies suggest that they comprise half or more of hospitalized Covid-19 cases. So for each new 140,000-case day, expect between 3,300 and 15,000 people to join the long-haulers.
The deaths and suffering are all the more tragic given that, with vaccines on the way and looking very promising, they are largely avoidable. It was one thing to risk seeing a dear friend when we had no end in sight, but now that the light is appearing at the end of the approximately six-month tunnel, we should keep our risky behavior to an absolute minimum.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 07, 2020, 12:35:06 PM
How rare is it for that to happen? @ExGingi seemed to be implying it *never* happens.

Quote
Local public health authorities determine and establish the quarantine options for their jurisdictions. CDC currently recommends a quarantine period of 14 days. However, based on local circumstances and resources, the following options to shorten quarantine are acceptable alternatives.

Quarantine can end after Day 10 without testing and if no symptoms have been reported during daily monitoring.
With this strategy, residual post-quarantine transmission risk is estimated to be about 1% with an upper limit of about 10%.
When diagnostic testing resources are sufficient and available (see bullet 3, below), then quarantine can end after Day 7 if a diagnostic specimen tests negative and if no symptoms were reported during daily monitoring. The specimen may be collected and tested within 48 hours before the time of planned quarantine discontinuation (e.g., in anticipation of testing delays), but quarantine cannot be discontinued earlier than after Day 7.
With this strategy, the residual post-quarantine transmission risk is estimated to be about 5% with an upper limit of about 12%.
In both cases, additional criteria (e.g., continued symptom monitoring and masking through Day 14) must be met and are outlined in the full text.


CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-options-to-reduce-quarantine.html)


Additional sources on ending quarantine early with a negative PCR test:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.27.20211631v4
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.21.20177808v3
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.23.20237412v1

In short: it appears that quarantining contacts for 14 days from exposure reduces transmission risk by nearly 100%. Reducing quarantine to 10 days (with no symptoms) appears to still lower transmission risk by ~98%, while further reducing quarantine to 7 days with a negative PCR test seemingly still decreases transmission risk by ~95%. Exercising extreme caution for the remaining 4-7 days (mask wearing, avoiding crowds, distancing, and symptom monitoring) further reduces ongoing transmission risk.

Itís certainly likely that with a quarantine period cut in half, compliance would rise dramatically. Additionally, itís reasonable to assume it would be better for the economy, mental health, education, etc. If the virus is not heavily prevalent in a population it may be worthwhile to eliminate as many avenues of transmission as possible despite the cost but where we currently stand as a country the CBA certainly seems to greatly favor increasing compliance at the cost of somewhat elevated transmission risk. The fact that this would encourage greater testing among exposed contacts would definitely be helpful as well.

IMO, in a population with a large amount of immunity (like Lakewood or BP), even where the virus is not heavily prevalent, it makes sense to adopt a policy of 7 days plus a negative PCR. However, that is only true if all or most contacts will comply with quarantine policies (unlike Lakewood or BP). Otherwise, even the slightly elevated risk can get blown out of proportion by a few irresponsible people due to the k factor.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 07, 2020, 02:10:53 PM

CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-options-to-reduce-quarantine.html)


Additional sources on ending quarantine early with a negative PCR test:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.27.20211631v4
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.21.20177808v3
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.23.20237412v1

In short: it appears that quarantining contacts for 14 days from exposure reduces transmission risk by nearly 100%. Reducing quarantine to 10 days (with no symptoms) appears to still lower transmission risk by ~98%, while further reducing quarantine to 7 days with a negative PCR test seemingly still decreases transmission risk by ~95%. Exercising extreme caution for the remaining 4-7 days (mask wearing, avoiding crowds, distancing, and symptom monitoring) further reduces ongoing transmission risk.

Itís certainly likely that with a quarantine period cut in half, compliance would rise dramatically. Additionally, itís reasonable to assume it would be better for the economy, mental health, education, etc. If the virus is not heavily prevalent in a population it may be worthwhile to eliminate as many avenues of transmission as possible despite the cost but where we currently stand as a country the CBA certainly seems to greatly favor increasing compliance at the cost of somewhat elevated transmission risk. The fact that this would encourage greater testing among exposed contacts would definitely be helpful as well.

IMO, in a population with a large amount of immunity (like Lakewood or BP), even where the virus is not heavily prevalent, it makes sense to adopt a policy of 7 days plus a negative PCR. However, that is only true if all or most contacts will comply with quarantine policies (unlike Lakewood or BP). Otherwise, even the slightly elevated risk can get blown out of proportion by a few irresponsible people due to the k factor.

Thanks!  This is great! I think this answers @ExGingi 's concern, which was decreasing the time to exit isolation after exposure to an infected person. 

Though it doesn't answer the specific study he wanted, which was "Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear." 

I haven't found any study to answer that particular question, but probably for good reason - it would be a waste of time and tests in pursuit of a point of information that is not really practically useful now.  More important is to monitor time since infection and possible symptoms, rather than testing for the virus.   
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 07, 2020, 09:54:53 PM

CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-options-to-reduce-quarantine.html)


Additional sources on ending quarantine early with a negative PCR test:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.27.20211631v4
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.21.20177808v3
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.23.20237412v1

In short: it appears that quarantining contacts for 14 days from exposure reduces transmission risk by nearly 100%. Reducing quarantine to 10 days (with no symptoms) appears to still lower transmission risk by ~98%, while further reducing quarantine to 7 days with a negative PCR test seemingly still decreases transmission risk by ~95%. Exercising extreme caution for the remaining 4-7 days (mask wearing, avoiding crowds, distancing, and symptom monitoring) further reduces ongoing transmission risk.

Itís certainly likely that with a quarantine period cut in half, compliance would rise dramatically. Additionally, itís reasonable to assume it would be better for the economy, mental health, education, etc. If the virus is not heavily prevalent in a population it may be worthwhile to eliminate as many avenues of transmission as possible despite the cost but where we currently stand as a country the CBA certainly seems to greatly favor increasing compliance at the cost of somewhat elevated transmission risk. The fact that this would encourage greater testing among exposed contacts would definitely be helpful as well.

IMO, in a population with a large amount of immunity (like Lakewood or BP), even where the virus is not heavily prevalent, it makes sense to adopt a policy of 7 days plus a negative PCR. However, that is only true if all or most contacts will comply with quarantine policies (unlike Lakewood or BP). Otherwise, even the slightly elevated risk can get blown out of proportion by a few irresponsible people due to the k factor.
Thanks!  This is great! I think this answers @ExGingi 's concern, which was decreasing the time to exit isolation after exposure to an infected person. 

Though it doesn't answer the specific study he wanted, which was "Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear." 

I haven't found any study to answer that particular question, but probably for good reason - it would be a waste of time and tests in pursuit of a point of information that is not really practically useful now.  More important is to monitor time since infection and possible symptoms, rather than testing for the virus.   
Thanks for posting @S209. I would argue that הא בהא תליא. Evidence of a sensible policy to shorten quarantine would get more people to willingly comply.

As to @biobook's assertion that such a study is a waste of time, that is beyond me. I would argue that it would be an extremely useful study, as it would enable improved accuracy of quarantine requirements, showing goodwill of kinds to people who are experiencing draconian measures, enabling more of a back-to-normal life, without any increased risk to public health. On the contrary, people are more likely to comply if they have a reasonable route to a quicker way out of it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 07, 2020, 10:23:24 PM
Thanks for posting @S209. I would argue that הא בהא תליא. Evidence of a sensible policy to shorten quarantine would get more people to willingly comply.

As to @biobook's assertion that such a study is a waste of time, that is beyond me. I would argue that it would be an extremely useful study, as it would enable improved accuracy of quarantine requirements, showing goodwill of kinds to people who are experiencing draconian measures, enabling more of a back-to-normal life, without any increased risk to public health. On the contrary, people are more likely to comply if they have a reasonable route to a quicker way out of it.

Agreed. I don't usually think your COVID takes are reasonable but this one certainly sounds sensible to me.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 07, 2020, 10:53:35 PM
Agreed. I don't usually think your COVID takes are reasonable but this one certainly sounds sensible to me.

If you go back and read them, now that you've agreed with this one, you'll find my reasoning to be consistent. It might have just come across to you differently.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 08, 2020, 12:34:01 AM
If you go back and read them, now that you've agreed with this one, you'll find my reasoning to be consistent. It might have just come across to you differently.

I don't need to look back to remember them, just take the W and move on :P
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 08, 2020, 10:52:38 PM
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/new-york-legislation-would-make-covid-19-vaccination-mandatory
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 08, 2020, 10:55:10 PM
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/new-york-legislation-would-make-covid-19-vaccination-mandatory
Itís very wrong. Let capitalism do its part. When vaccines are freely available to all the governmentís job is over.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 08, 2020, 11:10:04 PM
capitalism
Bíshem all NY politicians; whatís this ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 08, 2020, 11:12:57 PM
Itís very wrong. Let capitalism do its part. When vaccines are freely available to all the governmentís job is over.

Agree. Totally out of order.

I'm wondering how this will be enforced. With vaccines for kids they can't attend daycare or school if they're not up to date, so most of the time that gets people to comply. This vaccine isn't being marketed for kids yet as far as I know (has it even been tested on kids yet?), so how are they going to force adults to get a vaccine if they don't want it? Just wait for all those medical exemptions to roll in.

I personally think there are enough people who want to get vaccinated; no need for an unnecessary law.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 08, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
Bíshem all NY politicians; whatís this ?

Ask AOC. She definitely knows.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yesitsme on December 08, 2020, 11:14:59 PM
I have no problem with a mandate if they do a mail in vaccine
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
I'm wondering how this will be enforced.
If itís up to the politicians probably the same way Chinaís gonna do it. And hand out ďI VaccinatedĒ pins.
I personally think there are enough people who want to get vaccinated; no need for an unnecessary law.
Will more take this one than measles ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on December 08, 2020, 11:31:15 PM
When the USSR collapsed, many who had grown up there were shocked how american grocery stores worked. "If the government doesn't mandate everything, how will the stores know which and how much of each item to stock"?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on December 08, 2020, 11:32:23 PM


Will  more take this one than measles ?

There aren't any airlines that require proof of vaccination from measles to fly
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 08, 2020, 11:33:55 PM
If itís up to the politicians probably the same way Chinaís gonna do it. And hand out ďI VaccinatedĒ pins.

Can't wait to get one of those pins.

Will more take this one than measles ?

Honestly no clue, but I've seen enough people clamoring for it because of their nightmarish existence throughout this pandemic - but again I really have no idea. When there was a measles outbreak, the word lockdown (as well as others) didn't exist beyond the dictionary.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 08, 2020, 11:36:05 PM

There aren't any airlines that require proof of vaccination from measles to fly

There are actually people in this world (outside of this forum😉) who don't care for flying so that wouldn't propel them to get the vaccine.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 08, 2020, 11:36:56 PM
There are actually people in this world (outside of this forum) who don't care for flying so that wouldn't propel them to get the vaccine.
Yeah but there are other businesses which can also require it. A daycare can require it on their own too.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 08, 2020, 11:40:12 PM

There aren't any airlines that require proof of vaccination from measles to fly
I meant would enough people take it to have herd immunity.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on December 08, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
There are actually people in this world (outside of this forum) who don't care for flying so that wouldn't propel them to get the vaccine.
Hard to believe, right?
I really was just giving one example
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yitzgar on December 08, 2020, 11:44:27 PM
I meant would enough people take it to have herd immunity.
Oh, I thought you were being rhetorical. I'm sure on the one hand there are more who are nervous about it than measles etc., But on the other hand, even borderline antivaxxers who would normally be on the fence, will want to get back to normal life, and while some may hold out initially, I expect most people to eventually get it, especially once hundreds of millions around the globe get it. (Diehard antivaxxers are a different story, obviously)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 08, 2020, 11:46:04 PM
Yeah but there are other businesses which can also require it. A daycare can require it on their own too.

Of course. But that's not a government mandate.

When you say daycare, do you mean the adult employees or the kids? I don't think they can require it for kids until after its been tested.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on December 08, 2020, 11:47:16 PM
Hard to believe, right?
I really was just giving one example

I know, its just funny to me how that's the default example on this forum :). Which is perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 08, 2020, 11:52:27 PM
Oh, I thought you were being rhetorical. I'm sure on the one hand there are more who are nervous about it than measles etc., But on the other hand, even borderline antivaxxers who would normally be on the fence, will want to get back to normal life, and while some may hold out initially, I expect most people to eventually get it, especially once hundreds of millions around the globe get it. (Diehard antivaxxers are a different story, obviously)
Measles vaccine has been around over 50 years so everythingís known about it while this is new.

The second dose
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccine-side-effects-trials.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 08, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/03/1500-stimulus-checks-for-covid-19-shots-how-one-plan-would-work.html?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 12:00:28 AM
Measles vaccine has been around over 50 years so everythingís known about it while this is new.

The second dose
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccine-side-effects-trials.html
How common are long term effects from vaccines? Short answer: Not very. The primary concerns in vaccination trials are usually immediate effects, which these vaccines donít seem to have (other than standard flu vaccine side effects).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 09, 2020, 12:00:42 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/03/1500-stimulus-checks-for-covid-19-shots-how-one-plan-would-work.html?
Now youíll have people coming back for doubles & triples.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 12:04:52 AM
I'm not so sure we'll end up seeing all that many mandates in the West. By the time vaccines are amply available, Covid is likely to reach non significant numbers, and if the 95% immunity holds up, people aren't that likely to care about being potentially exposed to somebody who didn't vaccinate.

Mandates will be primarily for entry to Asia and countries who never got accustomed to high attack rates.

How common are long term effects from vaccines? Short answer: Not very. The primary concerns in vaccination trials are usually immediate effects, which these vaccines donít seem to have (other than standard flu vaccine side effects).

I believe there was never any long term effect discovered in a vaccine that wasn't evident after 2 months.

It's like measuring the effects of a punch after 2 months. The impact is completely over and the body is intact.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 12:15:07 AM
I'm not so sure we'll end up seeing all that many mandates in the West. By the time vaccines are amply available, Covid is likely to reach non significant numbers, and if the 95% immunity holds up, people aren't that likely to care about being potentially exposed to somebody who didn't vaccinate.
Agreed. I think a government mandate is a terrible idea, mostly because at 95% efficacy youíre safe enough without mandating that others comply.

I still think capitalism will soon enough make it hard to function without being vaccinated. Good luck traveling, attending events, and sending your children to school.

I believe there was never any long term effect discovered in a vaccine that wasn't evident after 2 months.
Correct (but donít tell @henche ).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 09, 2020, 12:16:57 AM
Agreed. I think a government mandate is a terrible idea, mostly because at 95% efficacy youíre safe enough without mandating that others comply.

I still think capitalism will soon enough make it hard to function without being vaccinated. Good luck traveling, attending events, and sending your children to school.
Correct (but donít tell @henche ).
What percent of the population do you see running to get it once itís available ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 12:17:19 AM
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 12:18:23 AM
What percent of the population do you see running to get it once itís available ?
Immediately, or by June (when it will be freely available to all, hundreds of millions will have been vaccinated worldwide, and businesses will require certification to be serviced)?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 12:18:32 AM
I meant to argue that even schools arenít likely to mandate it. Covid will be a non issue by the time there are enough vaccines.
Maybe if the immunity turns out to be short lived, even 95% efficiency will need all the help it can get.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 09, 2020, 12:23:18 AM
Immediately, or by June (when it will be freely available to all, hundreds of millions will have been vaccinated worldwide, and businesses will require certification to be serviced)?
Will enough get it to satisfy Comrade Linda Rosenthal
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 12:33:24 AM
Will enough get it to satisfy Comrade Linda Rosenthal
By June/July? Yes, definitely.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 12:35:12 AM
Now youíll have people coming back for doubles & triples.
This discriminates against poor people by forcing them to vaccinate sooner than the rich
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 09, 2020, 02:41:34 AM

Though it doesn't answer the specific study he wanted, which was "Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear." 

I haven't found any study to answer that particular question, but probably for good reason - it would be a waste of time and tests in pursuit of a point of information that is not really practically useful now.  More important is to monitor time since infection and possible symptoms, rather than testing for the virus.   


As to @biobook's assertion that such a study is a waste of time, that is beyond me. I would argue that it would be an extremely useful study, as it would enable improved accuracy of quarantine requirements, showing goodwill of kinds to people who are experiencing draconian measures, enabling more of a back-to-normal life, without any increased risk to public health. On the contrary, people are more likely to comply if they have a reasonable route to a quicker way out of it.
Maybe I'm still misunderstanding you. 
Until now, if someone had been exposed to a positive case, they were told to isolate for 14 days, and you wanted to do more testing, so they could leave isolation earlier.  But now the CDC okays leaving isolation on day 7 with a single test. 
I don't see how further testing could get you out of isolation earlier. 

Days 1-2 after exposure, a negative test just means that the virus hasn't yet multiplied enough to be measurable. 
Days 3-4 a negative test could be you weren't infected, but could be a false negative and you were infected, so you need to wait to see if symptoms occur, which are most likely by day 5.  If no symptoms on day 5, and a test is negative, you can leave isolation 2 days later.  (In practice, it may take 2 days just to get the results of the test.)  This hardly seems "draconian".
When do you think additional testing would be beneficial?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 09, 2020, 09:14:32 AM
Maybe I'm still misunderstanding you. 
Until now, if someone had been exposed to a positive case, they were told to isolate for 14 days, and you wanted to do more testing, so they could leave isolation earlier.  But now the CDC okays leaving isolation on day 7 with a single test. 
I don't see how further testing could get you out of isolation earlier. 

Days 1-2 after exposure, a negative test just means that the virus hasn't yet multiplied enough to be measurable. 
Days 3-4 a negative test could be you weren't infected, but could be a false negative and you were infected, so you need to wait to see if symptoms occur, which are most likely by day 5.  If no symptoms on day 5, and a test is negative, you can leave isolation 2 days later.  (In practice, it may take 2 days just to get the results of the test.)  This hardly seems "draconian".
When do you think additional testing would be beneficial?

Isolation is a draconian measure.

Getting a large scale study with daily testing could indicate the point at which it is safe to exit isolation. Once that is known, just test everyone who is sent to isolation at that point and release all negatives.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 09, 2020, 11:14:40 AM
Isolation is a draconian measure.

Getting a large scale study with daily testing could indicate the point at which it is safe to exit isolation. Once that is known, just test everyone who is sent to isolation at that point and release all negatives.
But where are you thinking it may be able to be streamlined?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Lurker on December 09, 2020, 12:06:53 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-vaccination-russians-avoid-alcohol-two-months

LMAO!!!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 09, 2020, 12:51:36 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-vaccination-russians-avoid-alcohol-two-months

LMAO!!!
Now that's draconian!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 09, 2020, 12:59:31 PM
Isolation is a draconian measure.

Could you expand on that?  What about staying home for a week seems unusually severe or repressive?  It's not unusual for someone to do that, when sick with the flu/bronchitis/pneumonia.  And it seems like a small request, considering the many people who've been somewhat isolated for 8 months.

Quote
Getting a large scale study with daily testing could indicate the point at which it is safe to exit isolation. Once that is known, just test everyone who is sent to isolation at that point and release all negatives.
That's exactly what we have.  It's safe to exit isolation at 7 days.  Everyone is sent to isolation, tested at 5-7 days, and if negative, they're released.  It's still not clear what additional information you're looking for.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on December 09, 2020, 08:44:13 PM
Itís very wrong. Let capitalism do its part. When vaccines are freely available to all the governmentís job is over.

I still think capitalism will soon enough make it hard to function without being vaccinated.
Good luck traveling, attending events, and sending your children to school.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FK3sHn6N/you-keep-using.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
It seems you didnít understand what I meant by ďlet capitalism do its partĒ.

I meant exactly what I said later: capitalism will cause enough people to become vaccinated without the government butting in.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: drosenberg88429 on December 09, 2020, 09:10:30 PM
Agreed. I think a government mandate is a terrible idea, mostly because at 95% efficacy youíre safe enough without mandating that others comply.

I still think capitalism will soon enough make it hard to function without being vaccinated. Good luck traveling, attending events, and sending your children to school.
Correct (but donít tell @henche ).

Having the government not allowing you to travel, send your kids to school, or attend an event without being vaccinated and then calling subsequent vaccination rates non interventionist capitalism is oxymoronic.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 09:12:40 PM
Having the government not allowing you to travel, send your kids to school, or attend an event without being vaccinated and then calling subsequent vaccination rates non interventionist capitalism is oxymoronic.
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 09:17:14 PM
Having the government not allowing you to travel, send your kids to school, or attend an event without being vaccinated and then calling subsequent vaccination rates non interventionist capitalism is oxymoronic.
Thatís not what I said.
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.
Exactly
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: drosenberg88429 on December 09, 2020, 09:29:07 PM
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.

Businesses exercised their capitalist right to keep middle seats empty on fights, to prevent infection and to keep their customers feeling secure. Then, when booking levels rose above 66% of the seats, they exercised their capitalist right to summarily throw these policies out the window at 38,000 feet.


Between 35%-55% of Americans are not really interested in taking vaccine now. I would guess that with a 95% efficacy, at least 80% of vaccinated people would feel perfectly comfortable going to a gathering or traveling on mass transit without vaccine mandates. The laissez faire capitalist math from a business perspective is pretty simple - vaccine mandates are bad for business. I wouldn't bet on them enforcing it without governmental regulation. In fact, I'd wager heavily against it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 09, 2020, 09:31:12 PM
Businesses exercised their capitalist right to keep middle seats empty on fights, to prevent infection and to keep their customers feeling secure. Then, when booking levels rose above 66% of the seats, they exercised their capitalist right to summarily throw these policies out the window at 38,000 feet.


Between 35%-55% of Americans are not really interested in taking vaccine now. I would guess that with a 95% efficacy, at least 80% of vaccinated people would feel perfectly comfortable going to a gathering or traveling on mass transit without vaccine mandates. The laissez faire capitalist math from a business perspective is pretty simple - vaccine mandates are bad for business. I wouldn't bet on them enforcing it without governmental regulation. In fact, I'd wager heavily against it.
You can also opine that mask mandates are bad for business, and yet all of the airlines think the opposite is true.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 09, 2020, 09:34:53 PM
You can also opine that mask mandates are bad for business, and yet all of the airlines think the opposite is true.
A vaccine allows anyone concerned to get one and be done when of the person next to them is infected. Without mask mandates they are stuck.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 09:38:12 PM
A vaccine allows anyone concerned to get one and be done when of the person next to them is infected. Without mask mandates they are stuck.
Depends if the data holds up and how long the vaccines work for, but I agree with you in principle and posted it upthread.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 09, 2020, 09:39:33 PM
Depends if the data holds up and how long the vaccines work for, but I agree with you in principle and posted it upthread.
If they don't work then there is no benefit in mandating them so either way there is no real reason for them to do it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 09:42:28 PM
If they don't work then there is no benefit in mandating them so either way there is no real reason for them to do it.
If the vaccines work 70% or they wane off it would make a huge difference how many people are vaccinated.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 09, 2020, 09:42:33 PM
A vaccine allows anyone concerned to get one and be done when of the person next to them is infected. Without mask mandates they are stuck.
In between dose 1 and dose 2?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 09, 2020, 09:44:10 PM
In between dose 1 and dose 2?
So will they allow people to fly between doses or not? Either they can catch it and are a risk to others or they can't and have nothing to worry about. The only point would be for the 10%
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 09, 2020, 09:45:06 PM
If the vaccines work 70% or they wane off it would make a huge difference how many people are vaccinated.
Overall in the world? Absolutely. For the business of an airline? Not so much.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 09:48:40 PM
Overall in the world? Absolutely. For the business of an airline? Not so much.
If vaccines are less than 90% effective many people will choose an airline that mandates vaccines over one that doesn't.

Most importantly, airlines are going to need bailout for a while, and requiring vaccines will give them a much better excuse for needing government money.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on December 09, 2020, 09:54:05 PM
Most importantly, airlines are going to need bailout for a while, and requiring vaccines will give them a much better excuse for needing government money.

This is one of the reasons it's silly to pretend that it will be "free market capitalism" that will cause companies to mandate vaccines.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 09, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
This is one of the reasons it's silly to pretend that it will be "free market capitalism" that will cause companies to mandate vaccines.
Good thing SCOTUS already ruled the government itself can fully mandate vaccinations and the argument is moot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on December 09, 2020, 10:08:23 PM
Good thing SCOTUS already ruled the government itself can fully mandate vaccinations and the argument is moot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

I'm not saying the government can't mandate, I'm responding to those pretending that will be the free market that creates those mandates.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 09, 2020, 11:19:08 PM
I'm not saying the government can't mandate, I'm responding to those pretending that will be the free market that creates those mandates.
While itís not guaranteed, what makes you think Iím pretending when I say I believe it? Iím talking about good old fashioned capitalism, the same mechanism that prevents you from traveling without a shirt.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: zh cohen on December 09, 2020, 11:26:57 PM
While itís not guaranteed, what makes you think Iím pretending when I say I believe it? Iím talking about good old fashioned capitalism, the same mechanism that prevents you from traveling without a shirt.

Sorry for my choice of words. My point is that "good old fashioned capitalism" does not exist in the airline (and other) industry.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on December 10, 2020, 03:55:54 AM
While it might be capitalism* that allows them to do it, what businesses attempt to enforce is what they believe the
majority of potential customers want - it's just society's opinion, or at least public perception of it, being enforced.

(*If the government denied businesses the right to refuse service to the unvaccinated, it would still fall within capitalism.)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 10, 2020, 07:55:39 AM
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.

Had a conversation with a friend who is on the fence whether he would take the vaccine. I told him good luck traveling to China any time soon without getting vaccinated. It quickly became a no brainer decision for him.

There will be many other places that will mandate it and make it a simple decision especially after many already have taken it.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 10, 2020, 09:26:02 AM
I think people are underestimating the amount of places or business that will convince people to vaccinate, ignore airlines and schools for a minute.

You want to work in healthcare? Get vaccinated and weíll hire you.
Want to visit your parents in the nursing home or your wife that gave birth? Get vaccinated.
Kid wants to join sports league? Get vaccinated.
Want to stop working remotely or work without your mask on? Get vaccinated.
Want to visit Israel, or any destination where the government requires vaccination? Get vaccinated. Want to take your kids to sky zone for chol hamoed? Get vaccinated.
Want to go a popular specialist or give birth with a great OBGYN? Get vaccinated.
And etc.

In regards to polls that claim up to 55% wonít vaccinate, we all know polls are meaningless ;) but this time especially so. Theyíre asking people if they would take a currently unproven, unapproved vaccine with unknown safety risks, of course many people will say no. But offer them a proven, approved vaccine thatís safe and hundreds of millions already took over the last 9 months, including many friends and family members; many people will definitely change their mind. Much more so if thereís any incentive to do so as I listed above.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on December 10, 2020, 09:33:14 AM
Want to stop working remotely

I donít think there are too many people in this category.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 10, 2020, 09:52:49 AM
I donít think there are too many people in this category.

Not many people working remotely or not many want to stop doing so? Either way, the numbers says otherwise. Only 35% want to continue working remotely.

"33% say they are "always" working remotely, down from 51% in April...Nearly two-thirds of U.S. workers who have been working remotely during the pandemic would like to continue to do so. In all, 35% of those who have worked remotely would simply prefer to do so while 30% would like to do so because of a concern about COVID-19. Another 35% say they would like to return to working at their office."
https://news.gallup.com/poll/321800/covid-remote-work-update.aspx
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 10, 2020, 09:56:46 AM
I think people are underestimating the amount of places or business that will convince people to vaccinate, ignore airlines and schools for a minute.

You want to work in healthcare? Get vaccinated and weíll hire you.
Want to visit your parents in the nursing home or your wife that gave birth? Get vaccinated.
Kid wants to join sports league? Get vaccinated.
Want to stop working remotely or work without your mask on? Get vaccinated.
Want to visit Israel, or any destination where the government requires vaccination? Get vaccinated. Want to take your kids to sky zone for chol hamoed? Get vaccinated.
Want to go a popular specialist or give birth with a great OBGYN? Get vaccinated.
And etc.

In regards to polls that claim up to 55% wonít vaccinate, we all know polls are meaningless ;) but this time especially so. Theyíre asking people if they would take a currently unproven, unapproved vaccine with unknown safety risks, of course many people will say no. But offer them a proven, approved vaccine thatís safe and hundreds of millions already took over the last 9 months, including many friends and family members; many people will definitely change their mind. Much more so if thereís any incentive to do so as I listed above.
Why would all these places require it?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 10, 2020, 01:13:19 PM

Make America Great Again
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 10, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Why would all these places require it?

1. Because even with a vaccine, not everyone will be able to take it, and it's not effective for everyone
2. Perhaps the vaccine will not last long enough for some people
3. Get rid of liability issue
4. They want people to vaccinate and they aren't losing any business from it
5. It will be better for business
6. It will make employees feel safer
etc.

Not saying all these places will require it, but I can see many of them doing so.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 10, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/china-civil-aviation-administration-coronavirus-guidance-intl-hnk/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 10, 2020, 05:58:55 PM
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/china-civil-aviation-administration-coronavirus-guidance-intl-hnk/index.html
Unbelievable
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 10, 2020, 06:03:02 PM
Unbelievable

It's 2020. That word has been canceled!

P.S.
You've got yourself a nice like count.

(https://gyazo.com/6f04969e5f18769249ef85fd4930b1eb.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 10, 2020, 07:15:54 PM
It's 2020. That word has been canceled!

P.S.
You've got yourself a nice like count.

(https://gyazo.com/6f04969e5f18769249ef85fd4930b1eb.jpg)
Nice. Judging by the popularity of my current opinions (and reality at large) it may stay like that for a while... At least I have 770 to look forward to after that...

אמר רשב״י, ראיתי בני אמנה ומועטים הם... אם שנים הם אני ובני מהם...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: drosenberg88429 on December 10, 2020, 07:21:02 PM
Nice. Judging by the popularity of my current opinions (and reality at large) it may stay like that for a while... At least I have 770 to look forward to after that...

אמר רשב״י, ראיתי בני עלייה ומועטים הם... אם שנים הם אני ובני מהם...

פטפי
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 10, 2020, 11:44:06 PM
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on December 11, 2020, 01:22:18 AM
פטפי
It's a good thing that doesn't have a bad translation ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 11, 2020, 01:45:03 AM
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/china-civil-aviation-administration-coronavirus-guidance-intl-hnk/index.html
Just be happy theyíre not forcing passengers too as well.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: EliJelly on December 11, 2020, 02:17:55 AM
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/china-civil-aviation-administration-coronavirus-guidance-intl-hnk/index.html
If someone tells me that's common procedure in China I wouldn't be able to argue :)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 16, 2020, 04:31:44 PM
Should this be filed under unintended consequences, or under "working as intended"?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-15/rich-states-uncover-tax-windfall-undercutting-push-for-more-aid
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 18, 2020, 10:18:41 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/study-travel-bans-won-t-thwart-the-next-pandemic
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 18, 2020, 10:21:57 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/study-travel-bans-won-t-thwart-the-next-pandemic
Tell that to Australia, China, New Zealand, Taiwan...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 18, 2020, 11:53:41 AM
Tell that to Australia, China, New New Zealand, Taiwan...
Don't forget Israel.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 18, 2020, 01:22:23 PM
Don't forget Israel.
Interestingly, this post has 2 like right now and I am guessing that they are for opposite reasons.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 18, 2020, 01:38:03 PM
Don't forget Israel.
Israel's policies are like swiss cheese. I'm sure I could get in if I wanted to.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2020, 09:19:28 AM
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/SJvLIxRnw
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Randomex on December 22, 2020, 10:18:06 AM
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2263077-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-variant-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 22, 2020, 11:42:28 PM
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Deal Guy on December 23, 2020, 12:04:22 AM
What is ?s=21
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 23, 2020, 12:11:23 AM
DISPLACED MORTALITY
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on December 23, 2020, 12:22:20 AM
DISPLACED MORTALITY

But a meme told me that 2020 is the least fatal year ever!? Also 90% of the deaths were suicide you sheeple.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 23, 2020, 09:02:17 AM
What is ?s=21

It's a code Twitter puts in the links to indicate which Twitter client it was copied from.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2020, 08:35:16 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-24/spoof-coronavirus-advice-viral-video-bans-consonant-sounds/13012468
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2020, 09:26:28 PM
https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1168037

Not sure where to post this, so I posted here, even though that website doesn't really qualify as interesting articles.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on December 27, 2020, 11:27:05 PM
Face coverings and respiratory tract droplet dispersion:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rsos.201663
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on December 27, 2020, 11:33:34 PM
Face coverings and respiratory tract droplet dispersion:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rsos.201663
They used an iPhone 7 camera in 2020?!?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on December 27, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
Face coverings and respiratory tract droplet dispersion:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rsos.201663
Care to summarize?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on December 27, 2020, 11:43:40 PM
Care to summarize?

Not for me, too scientific.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on December 28, 2020, 12:38:40 AM
Face coverings and respiratory tract droplet dispersion:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rsos.201663
To summarize:
They measured how well a mask could block the movement of water droplets - coming from the mouth of a person speaking or coughing, or artificially released through the head of a mannikin.  In all cases, both surgical and cloth masks effectively blocked the particles, such that 10,000 fewer particles were measured at a distance of 6 feet when masks were used. 

This suggests that masks are, in fact, effective in blocking large particles that contain virus.  However, the researchers say that their research can't really be used to conclude that masks are effective if smaller aerosolized particles are important in disease transmission (as now seems to be the case).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Afrages6 on December 28, 2020, 01:20:00 AM
Thanks!  This is great! I think this answers @ExGingi 's concern, which was decreasing the time to exit isolation after exposure to an infected person. 

Though it doesn't answer the specific study he wanted, which was "Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear." 

I haven't found any study to answer that particular question, but probably for good reason - it would be a waste of time and tests in pursuit of a point of information that is not really practically useful now.  More important is to monitor time since infection and possible symptoms, rather than testing for the virus.
I know this is a little bit of a reach back. But from all of the NFL data we have this year of exposures and daily tests, there hasnít been a single case of someone testing positive after 7 days from exposure. And these people are all tested daily with PCR tests..
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 28, 2020, 09:03:45 AM
I know this is a little bit of a reach back. But from all of the NFL data we have this year of exposures and daily tests, there hasnít been a single case of someone testing positive after 7 days from exposure. And these people are all tested daily with PCR tests..

Please! Please! Stop confusing everyone with facts!
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 28, 2020, 09:38:11 AM
I know this is a little bit of a reach back. But from all of the NFL data we have this year of exposures and daily tests, there hasnít been a single case of someone testing positive after 7 days from exposure. And these people are all tested daily with PCR tests..
Thatís a unique perspective on finding data. It would be cool to see someone publish a paper on this. Iím sure they are looking closely at sports data.
Please! Please! Stop confusing everyone with facts!
?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on December 28, 2020, 10:08:52 AM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/asymptomatic-transmission-of-covid-19-didnt-occur-at-all-study-of-10-million-finds
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 28, 2020, 10:28:21 AM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/asymptomatic-transmission-of-covid-19-didnt-occur-at-all-study-of-10-million-finds
Aha, today is the day that we are using Wuhan data?
Just need to get my calendar squared.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on December 28, 2020, 10:30:24 AM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/asymptomatic-transmission-of-covid-19-didnt-occur-at-all-study-of-10-million-finds
Not sure any such study from China is worth anything... but, aren't we worried about pre-symptomatic transmission? People spreading it that are contagious before their symptoms are full-blown? Or does that not exist, either?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on December 28, 2020, 10:42:44 AM
Aha, today is the day that we are using Wuhan data?
Just need to get my calendar squared.

Yeah, if this data is from early 2020 it makes no sense that it's only getting published now.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 28, 2020, 02:53:52 PM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/asymptomatic-transmission-of-covid-19-didnt-occur-at-all-study-of-10-million-finds
Total misrepresentation of the study. The study included 300 fully asymptomatic patients who didnít transmit COVID, but doesnít address the driver of asymptomatic infection- presumptomatic spread.

Is this really too hard for anyone?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 28, 2020, 03:12:15 PM
Armin and Liel have been incredible writing about Covid in NY. Their latest pieces are fire, as usual.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/illegal-funeral-williamsburg-satmar
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/de-blasios-perfect-patsies
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on December 28, 2020, 03:17:19 PM

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/de-blasios-perfect-patsies

I wonder if this can be litigated under the equal protection clause.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 28, 2020, 04:21:11 PM
I wonder if this can be litigated under the equal protection clause.

Would be interesting. I wonder if that had anything to do with the CDC doing an abrupt about-face on their guidelines
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 29, 2020, 12:39:57 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55465079

Quote
A spokesman in Valais canton said 420 British guests had booked into Verbier accommodation before Christmas and now only about a dozen were left.
Switzerland imposed a 10-day quarantine backdated to 14 December because of the new virus strain spreading in the UK.
The country also stopped flights from the UK and South Africa on 20 December.
Some Swiss hoteliers only discovered the guests had vanished when room service trays were left untouched outside doors, Swiss media reported. Others were called by British tourists demanding their money back once they had safely crossed into France, the BBC's Imogen Foulkes reports from Geneva.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: neveryou on December 29, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/asymptomatic-transmission-of-covid-19-didnt-occur-at-all-study-of-10-million-finds
https://rationalground.com/university-of-florida-researchers-find-no-asymptomatic-or-presymptomatic-spread/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 01:46:28 AM
https://rationalground.com/university-of-florida-researchers-find-no-asymptomatic-or-presymptomatic-spread/
Talk about clickbait. The only study included on presymptomatic spread was one that studied 2 presymptomatic patients, of which one went on to infect a contact.

I know a few people who were only exposed to a presymptomatic patient and subsequently got infected. They werenít exposed to anyone else for weeks before, let alone anyone else with symptomatic COVID. PM me for their numbers.

Itís well known at this point that transmission by patients who remain asymptomatic is relatively rare. This is truly old news
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 31, 2020, 06:46:38 PM
Hebrew article responding to an op-ed questioning whether the financial toll is worth it for the relatively small excess mortality.

https://www.themarker.com/amp/blogs/.premium-1.9415377

I read the article fast, so I might have missed something, but it seems to me that I agree with almost everything he writes.

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on December 31, 2020, 07:29:49 PM
Hebrew article responding to an op-ed questioning whether the financial toll is worth it for the relatively small excess mortality.

https://www.themarker.com/amp/blogs/.premium-1.9415377

I read the article fast, so I might have missed something, but it seems to me that I agree with almost everything he writes.


Error 403 Forbidden
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 31, 2020, 07:38:55 PM
Hebrew article responding to an op-ed questioning whether the financial toll is worth it for the relatively small excess mortality.

https://www.themarker.com/amp/blogs/.premium-1.9415377

I read the article fast, so I might have missed something, but it seems to me that I agree with almost everything he writes.
Translation ?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on December 31, 2020, 08:07:15 PM
Translation ?
https://k3as2rxse4mbwwcyzkfeska4f4-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-themarker-com.translate.goog/amp/blogs/.premium-1.9415377
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 31, 2020, 08:35:35 PM
https://k3as2rxse4mbwwcyzkfeska4f4-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-themarker-com.translate.goog/amp/blogs/.premium-1.9415377
Thanks
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 31, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
https://k3as2rxse4mbwwcyzkfeska4f4-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-themarker-com.translate.goog/amp/blogs/.premium-1.9415377

Was there a human intervention in that translation?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 31, 2020, 09:53:26 PM
Error 403 Forbidden
I use Opera browser in privacy mode on my phone to read most content that's behind a paywall.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Yo ssi on December 31, 2020, 10:01:43 PM
Was there a human intervention in that translation?
Pure google translate. I didn't read it, is it good?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 31, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I use Opera browser in privacy mode on my phone to read most content that's behind a paywall.
I didnít even notice a paywall
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on December 31, 2020, 10:18:46 PM
Weíve come full circle
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-covid-19-strain-found-in-china-11609434817
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 31, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
Weíve come full circle
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-covid-19-strain-found-in-china-11609434817

Around the world in 365 days.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on December 31, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Pure google translate. I didn't read it, is it good?

I skimmed through the translation and didn't notice anything egregious.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Traveler718 on December 31, 2020, 11:53:55 PM
A yeshiva bochur writes for CNBC that COVID has caused him to question why he spent so much time churning and MSing to stockpile points.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/30/stockpiling-credit-card-points.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on December 31, 2020, 11:58:45 PM
A yeshiva bochur writes for CNBC that COVID has caused him to question why he spent so much time churning and MSing to stockpile points.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/30/stockpiling-credit-card-points.html
Someone should offer to take them off his hands. I think there's a word for people who pay money for these "credit card points" and then use them to book flights for other people. Is it "mileage broker",  maybe? ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: EliJelly on January 01, 2021, 12:38:43 AM
Someone should offer to take them off his hands. I think there's a word for people who pay money for these "credit card points" and then use them to book flights for other people. Is it "mileage broker",  maybe? ;)
What are you talking about, this industry was also hit and price for points decreased immensely. Here's where CSR comes in so greatly, 1.5 regardless and the relative security that it can't get devalued lower.   
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on January 01, 2021, 12:44:35 AM
What are you talking about, this industry was also hit and price for points decreased immensely. Here's where CSR comes in so greatly, 1.5 regardless and the relative security that it can't get devalued lower.
The focal point of his hobby was for personal travel and which he regrets now (which is strange to me anyways - most programs have put a hold on expiration). Seems like he's unaware of other ways of cashing out.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: EliJelly on January 01, 2021, 12:49:41 AM
The focal point of his hobby was for personal travel and which he regrets now (which is strange to me anyways - most programs have put a hold on expiration). Seems like he's unaware of other ways of cashing out.
Correct.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on January 01, 2021, 01:20:06 PM
A yeshiva bochur writes for CNBC that COVID has caused him to question why he spent so much time churning and MSing to stockpile points.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/30/stockpiling-credit-card-points.html
https://mobile.twitter.com/DansDeals/status/1344889731109302274
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 01, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
Send him this (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=122419.0) link.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Mf1 on January 03, 2021, 01:23:15 AM
Nsw ,Australia making masks mandatory and giving $200 on the spot fines for non compliance
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/face-masks
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 03, 2021, 09:29:41 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9106951/Lab-leak-credible-source-coronavirus-outbreak-says-government-official.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 03, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9106951/Lab-leak-credible-source-coronavirus-outbreak-says-government-official.html

Best article Iíve seen so far supporting this:

Itís like a horrible sci-fi movie coming to life where they engineered this in a lab, spread misinformation, released evolved strains elsewhere later on (Italy, UK), and sold a few billion vaccine doses. Biggest geopolitical flex ever.

Bonus points if they also aided and abetted countries loyal to them in controlling the spread and/or developing vaccines/antidotes.

Interested in seen more investigative journalism on the topic, preferably from an outlet with a better reputation than a tabloid like the Daily Mail.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 03, 2021, 11:36:21 AM
Interested in seen more investigative journalism on the topic, preferably from an outlet with a better reputation than a tabloid like the Daily Mail.
You wonít get much deeper than this. The Chinese people are afraid to talk, or as their government calls it ďmaliciously manipulating an outbreakĒ or ďcausing chaosĒ. The governmentís not letting anyone, including WHO, close to the labs or key scientists.
DM has some great journalists. A reputation a paper built up a century ago doesnít mean anything today. Some of our media are afraid to upset the Chinese for various reasons.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 03, 2021, 11:37:51 AM
You wonít get much deeper than this. The Chinese people are afraid to talk, or as their government calls it ďmaliciously manipulating an outbreakĒ or ďcausing chaosĒ. The governmentís not letting anyone, including WHO, close to the labs or key scientists.
DM has some great journalists. A reputation a paper built up a century ago doesnít mean anything today. Some of our media are afraid to upset the Chinese for various reasons.

Im confident more truth will trickle out over time. But when it comes later and in bits and pieces, it doesnít have nearly as much impact.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: aygart on January 03, 2021, 11:40:54 AM
DM has some great journalists. A reputation a paper built up a century ago doesnít mean anything today.

Too bad they all get covered over by any skin filter out there. Ad hayom they push so much skin into your face on that site that it belongs filtered out by any filter worth anything.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Traveler718 on January 03, 2021, 12:58:54 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DansDeals/status/1344889731109302274

I figured he learned from you when he talked about MSing coins from the mint - not something the average churner comes up with on his own.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 03, 2021, 01:46:12 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/01/now-coronavirus-variant-us-since-october?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1609511305
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 04, 2021, 11:15:05 PM
https://news.trust.org/item/20210104140005-hnx99
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 05, 2021, 10:24:59 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20210101201524if_/https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/12/12/the-japanese-authorities-understood-covid-19-better-than-most
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: hllulbh1 on January 07, 2021, 06:19:44 PM
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/06/1015822/covid-19-immunity-likely-lasts-for-years/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 08, 2021, 06:24:04 AM
https://mobile.kikar.co.il/article/382814
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 10, 2021, 08:57:56 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/01/08/iran-khamenei-bans-us-uk-coronavirus-vaccines/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 10, 2021, 10:38:36 AM
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/06/1015822/covid-19-immunity-likely-lasts-for-years/

Can you make inferences from SARS to SARS-CoV2? Can you make inferences from antibodies/immunity from  infection to immunity from an mRNA vaccine?

Asking rhetorically.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 12, 2021, 08:53:21 PM
Major news

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/virus-tests-ordered-for-u-s-bound-in-bid-to-revive-airlines?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Traveler718 on January 12, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Major news

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/virus-tests-ordered-for-u-s-bound-in-bid-to-revive-airlines?srnd=premium

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/will-us-require-negative-covid-19-test-results-return-abroad/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Definitions on January 12, 2021, 11:01:13 PM
I mean theoretically it's just the airline that has to verify. So if you make a somewhat decent forgery of a test result I'd imagine privacy laws would prevent them from actually finding out if a test occured at all.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on January 13, 2021, 12:02:23 AM
I mean theoretically it's just the airline that has to verify. So if you make a somewhat decent forgery of a test result I'd imagine privacy laws would prevent them from actually finding out if a test occured at all.
FRAUD
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 12:06:30 AM
I mean theoretically it's just the airline that has to verify. So if you make a somewhat decent forgery of a test result I'd imagine privacy laws would prevent them from actually finding out if a test occured at all.
The US CBP isn't a pushover. I would assume they will at the very least do spot checks with severe penalties.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on January 13, 2021, 12:14:42 AM
I mean theoretically it's just the airline that has to verify. So if you make a somewhat decent forgery of a test result I'd imagine privacy laws would prevent them from actually finding out if a test occured at all.
Good way to go to jail and wind up on a no fly list.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 13, 2021, 12:19:28 AM
Good way to go to jail and wind up on a no fly list.

Let's just say that there haven't been quite a few who have done this in order to enter various countries.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on January 13, 2021, 12:23:05 AM
Let's just say that there haven't been quite a few who have done this in order to enter various countries.
Messing with random countries isn't the same as messing with the USA.
Kind of like getting banned from DDF vs getting banned from Google.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 12:31:29 AM
Messing with random countries isn't the same as messing with the USA.
Kind of like getting banned from DDF vs getting banned from Google.
Great analogy
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 13, 2021, 12:36:17 AM
Kind of like getting banned from DDF vs getting banned from Google.

For some people here I wonder if the former would be worse...
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 12:40:48 AM
For some people here I wonder if the former would be worse...
Definitely harder to circumvent.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: EliJelly on January 13, 2021, 12:55:29 AM
Messing with random countries isn't the same as messing with the USA.
Kind of like getting banned from DDF vs getting banned from Google.
Be sure that the anti vaxers will come up with something when vaccination passports will be required.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 13, 2021, 08:49:55 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-is-50-4-in-late-stage-brazil-trials-11610470581
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 13, 2021, 12:08:53 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/americas/razer-smart-face-mask-scli-intl-wellness/index.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 12:42:52 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-is-50-4-in-late-stage-brazil-trials-11610470581
50% against mild illness, close to 100% against severe illness.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 13, 2021, 12:45:41 PM
50% against mild illness, close to 100% against severe illness.

Well, that changes thing. Vaccines give you two things:
- Prevent serious illness /death
- Prevent spread

Sounds like the SinoVac will give you more of the former than the latter.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 12:54:37 PM
Well, that changes thing. Vaccines give you two things:
- Prevent serious illness /death
- Prevent spread

Sounds like the SinoVac will give you more of the former than the latter.
Definitely, although once you know the vaccine is having an impact, it's fair to assume it will at less make the infectious period shorter.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 13, 2021, 05:20:58 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-11/how-to-know-if-a-building-has-good-ventilation?srnd=premium
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 13, 2021, 06:25:35 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/13/covid-vaccine-johnson-johnson-one-shot-safe-generates-immune-response.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2021, 08:39:02 AM
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/man-with-health-ministry-ties-sends-ex-wife-to-quarantine-4-times-655394
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 14, 2021, 09:07:24 AM
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/hsbc-says-customers-who-enter-23307420.amp?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 14, 2021, 10:46:25 AM
The plot thickens.

First, we found out about a term called: Superspreaders. Now we have a new one: Super Antibodies.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/he-unknowingly-had-covid-19-now-his-blood-contains-rare-n1254232
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: biobook on January 14, 2021, 01:01:36 PM
The plot thickens.

First, we found out about a term called: Superspreaders. Now we have a new one: Super Antibodies.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/he-unknowingly-had-covid-19-now-his-blood-contains-rare-n1254232
Superspreaders bad; Superantibodies good.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: TimT on January 14, 2021, 01:02:50 PM
Superman
Batman
Spiderman
Superantibodiesman
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on January 14, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 14, 2021, 05:41:21 PM
Superspreaders bad; Superantibodies good.

What happens when we team them together?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 14, 2021, 06:39:28 PM
What happens when we team them together?

ďI was bored, so I put a humidifier and a dehumidifier in a room so they could fight it outĒ
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: yuneeq on January 15, 2021, 08:31:16 AM
Major news

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/virus-tests-ordered-for-u-s-bound-in-bid-to-revive-airlines?srnd=premium

Title couldnít be further from the truth
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 15, 2021, 09:58:34 AM
ďI was bored, so I put a humidifier and a dehumidifier in a room so they could fight it outĒ

COVID-19 lockdown activity. We'll have it in mind for next Chol Hamed trip.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 17, 2021, 12:53:55 AM
India hopes to vaccinate 300m people by June:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/world/india-covid-vaccine.html

Their locally-developed vaccine has EUA but efficacy hasnít been established.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Traveler718 on January 18, 2021, 06:44:56 PM
Man hides in secure area at ORD for 3 months due to fear of flying home during COVID:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/man-lived-inside-chicagos-ohare-airport-for-3-months-before-detection-prosecutors-say/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Euclid on January 20, 2021, 06:59:56 PM
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/bergenfield/2021/01/19/covid-survivor-nj-michael-goldsmith-makes-plea-others-follow-guidance/4174363001/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/bergenfield/2021/01/19/covid-survivor-nj-michael-goldsmith-makes-plea-others-follow-guidance/4174363001/)


Google cache version (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:U3Bo0DIByyIJ:https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/bergenfield/2021/01/19/covid-survivor-nj-michael-goldsmith-makes-plea-others-follow-guidance/4174363001/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 24, 2021, 10:02:24 PM
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1353029966234079234.html
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 24, 2021, 10:05:35 PM
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1353029966234079234.html
Very interesting, thank you
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on January 25, 2021, 09:16:05 AM
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1353029966234079234.html
TLDR:
B117 (and possibly other mutations) = bad
We're screwed
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on January 25, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
TLDR:
B117 (and possibly other mutations) = bad
We're screwed
Ain lanu al mi l'hishaen ela al Avinu Shebashamayim.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on January 25, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
Ain lanu al mi l'hishaen ela al Avinu Shebashamayim.
Bingo
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 10:03:52 AM
TLDR:
B117 (and possibly other mutations) = bad
We're screwed

It remains to be seen what B117, L452R etc will do to populations that reach herd immunity (the real type) through infection of earlier doses and/or mRNA vaccination. Iím not too trusting of some of the other vaccines, the 50% efficacy threshold thatís acceptable in other circumstances might not suffice against this enemy.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 10:06:07 AM
Ain lanu al mi l'hishaen ela al Avinu Shebashamayim.

COVID-19 will end once the world acknowledges this.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 10:09:01 AM
COVID-19 will end once the world acknowledges this.

Please explain how this will manifest within nature?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 10:27:14 AM
Please explain how this will manifest within nature?

א-ל-ה-י-ם בגימטריא הטבע
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 10:34:56 AM
א-ל-ה-י-ם בגימטריא הטבע

Please explain how the natural order of how the pandemic disappears the minute we surrender to Hashem. In scientific terms, not religious terms.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on January 25, 2021, 11:39:33 AM
Please explain how the natural order of how the pandemic disappears the minute we surrender to Hashem. In scientific terms, not religious terms.

The problem is that the entire world has been trying (unsuccessfully IMO) to understand this virus scientifically for a year already but there are still so many questions and unknowns and more keep cropping up as we bumble along. If I understand his point correctly, since scientific answers seem elusive our only option is to realize that G-d is totally in charge - the same way He brought the virus upon us (seemingly out of pretty much nowhere but introduced within a natural process), the same way He can remove it from within our midst in a natural way.

Klal Yisrael is nowhere close to believing that, let alone the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 11:44:29 AM
The problem is that the entire world has been trying (unsuccessfully IMO) to understand this virus scientifically for a year already but there are still so many questions and unknowns and more keep cropping up as we bumble along. If I understand his point correctly, since scientific answers seem elusive our only option is to realize that G-d is totally in charge - the same way He brought the virus upon us (seemingly out of pretty much nowhere but introduced within a natural process), the same way He can remove it from within our midst in a natural way.

Klal Yisrael is nowhere close to believing that, let alone the rest of the world.

I don't understand how these two things, faith and science, are somehow mutually exclusive. While you're correct that science can't quash the pandemic in a heartbeat, we have learned a lot and come a long way in this past year, and will continue to learn more. Humility and faith are important but I'm not sure how you can suggest they somehow displace science. So long as Moshiach hasn't arrived and the world works scientifically, we must continue to pursue every scientific avenue, I'm not sure where/how faith contradicts that.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 11:44:54 AM
The problem is that the entire world has been trying (unsuccessfully IMO) to understand this virus scientifically for a year already but there are still so many questions and unknowns and more keep cropping up as we bumble along. If I understand his point correctly, since scientific answers seem elusive our only option is to realize that G-d is totally in charge - the same way He brought the virus upon us (seemingly out of pretty much nowhere but introduced within a natural process), the same way He can remove it from within our midst in a natural way.

Klal Yisrael is nowhere close to believing that, let alone the rest of the world.

I would be hard pressed to be convinced that the virus was not brought about exactly for this purpose.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 11:47:02 AM
I don't understand how these two things, faith and science, are somehow mutually exclusive. While you're correct that science can't quash the pandemic in a heartbeat, we have learned a lot and come a long way in this past year, and will continue to learn more. Humility and faith are important but I'm not sure how you can suggest they somehow displace science. So long as Moshiach hasn't arrived and the world works scientifically, we must continue to pursue every scientific avenue, I'm not sure where/how faith contradicts that.

Do you really think that a "scientific" solution will come about faster than Moshiach once the entire world acknowledges the this is 100% in G-d's control?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 11:48:31 AM
I would be hard pressed to be convinced that the virus was not brought about exactly for this purpose.

I'm all for it, but the scientific objectives with regards to COVID (and variants, which is where this faith aspect came up) need to continue all the same.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 11:49:51 AM
Do you really think that a "scientific" solution will come about faster than Moshiach once the entire world acknowledges the this is 100% in G-d's control?

That's one possibility. Right now the political power struggles that are going on are hindering whatever scientific progress can be made.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
That's one possibility. Right now the political power struggles that are going on are hindering whatever scientific progress can be made.

Someone's controlling that too.... Part of a grand scheme.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 11:52:48 AM
Someone's controlling that too.... Part of a grand scheme.

Interesting perspective. How is this actionable?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 12:00:22 PM
Interesting perspective. How is this actionable?

הדרך הישרה וכו׳
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Traveler718 on January 25, 2021, 01:25:07 PM
And back to interesting articles, which is ostensibly what this thread is about:

We may need to vaccinate pets as well as people:
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2202907/cats-and-dogs-covid-vaccine/   

Moderna working on a booster shot against one of the mutations that its vaccine offers suboptimal protection:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/moderna-developing-vaccine-booster-shot-against-virus-strain-first-identified-in-south-africa-11611581400 -
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2021, 01:34:36 PM
So long as Moshiach hasn't arrived and the world works scientifically,
Not sure why anybody would think the world won't work scientifically after Moshiach comes. Perhaps there will be more interference from Hashem but the fundamental rules of nature are not expected to change. We will still need to do hishtadlus to prevent illness just like we eat to provide nourishment.

Those who think Emuna is somehow contradictory to science have a serious flaw in their belief. Science works because Hashem gave it the powers. He can override it but he doesn't always do so.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on January 25, 2021, 02:09:04 PM
Not sure why anybody would think the world won't work scientifically after Moshiach comes. Perhaps there will be more interference from Hashem but the fundamental rules of nature are not expected to change. We will still need to do hishtadlus to prevent illness just like we eat to provide nourishment.

Those who think Emuna is somehow contradictory to science have a serious flaw in their belief. Science works because Hashem gave it the powers. He can override it but he doesn't always do so.
If most of the world comes to hakaras haboreh through this pandemic - I find it hard to believe this wouldn't bring mashiach. And if that IYH does come too pass - I find it unlikely that COVID wouldn't disappear
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 02:11:01 PM
Not sure why anybody would think the world won't work scientifically after Moshiach comes. Perhaps there will be more interference from Hashem but the fundamental rules of nature are not expected to change. We will still need to do hishtadlus to prevent illness just like we eat to provide nourishment.

Those who think Emuna is somehow contradictory to science have a serious flaw in their belief. Science works because Hashem gave it the powers. He can override it but he doesn't always do so.


Quote
ויכוין בהנחתם שצונו הקב"ה לכתוב ד' פרשיות אלו שיש בהם יחוד שמו ויציאת מצרים כדי שנזכור נסים ונפלאות שעשה עמנו שהם מורים על יחודו ואשר לו הכח והממשלה לעשות בעליונים ובתחתונים כרצונו. וצונו להניחן על הזרוע כנגד הלב ועל הראש נגד המוח כדי שנשעבד הנשמה שהיא במוח וגם תאוות ומחשבות לבנו לעבודתו יתברך שע"י הנחת תפילין יזכור את הבורא וימעיט הנאותיו:

כימי צאתך מארץ מצרים אראנו נפלאות
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 02:21:16 PM
If most of the world comes to hakaras haboreh through this pandemic - I find it hard to believe this wouldn't bring mashiach.

היינו הך!

עולם = העלם, concealing the בורא.

גאולה = revealing the א which signifies אלופו של עולם within גולה.

ימות המשיח are about the world remaining a world, but rather than concealing אלקות in a way that things can seem to exist and happen independent of הקב"ה c"v, the opposite will be the case where the מציאות of הקב"ה will be clearly visible through every aspect of the world. (COVID is probably a prep for this).
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on January 25, 2021, 02:38:23 PM
Not sure why anybody would think the world won't work scientifically after Moshiach comes. Perhaps there will be more interference from Hashem but the fundamental rules of nature are not expected to change. We will still need to do hishtadlus to prevent illness just like we eat to provide nourishment.

Those who think Emuna is somehow contradictory to science have a serious flaw in their belief. Science works because Hashem gave it the powers. He can override it but he doesn't always do so.

There are many different שיטות on how the world will look after Moshiach comes.  Your version may be one of them.  However, there are definitely many that say that in the times of Moshiach there will be rules of nature that will be changed.  For starters, the dead will awaken (tchiyas hameisim, which is definitely outside of the natural realm) as well as that all sicknesses will be healed - the blind will be able to see, the deaf will be able to hear and also anyone suffering from any ailment including but not limited to, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease, alzheimers, etc will be cured.  So you can rest assured that those with COVID will be cured as well.  According to this there will be no death and illnesses experienced any longer on this world.

I have no idea who is right and what will actually be.  Nobody does.  And it won't help us to continue to debate Teva vs Nes or how exactly the world will operate when Moshiach comes.  We should just be zoicheh already for it to happen and we'll find out in real time.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2021, 02:44:29 PM
There are many different שיטות on how the world will look after Moshiach comes.  Your version may be one of them.  However, there are definitely many that say that in the times of Moshiach there will be rules of nature that will be changed.  For starters, the dead will awaken (tchiyas hameisim, which is definitely outside of the natural realm) as well as that all sicknesses will be healed - the blind will be able to see, the deaf will be able to hear and also anyone suffering from any ailment including but not limited to, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease, alzheimers, etc will be cured.  So you can rest assured that those with COVID will be cured as well.  According to this there will be no death and illnesses experienced any longer on this world.

I have no idea who is right and what will actually be.  Nobody does.  And it won't help us to continue to debate Teva vs Nes or how exactly the world will operate when Moshiach comes.  We should just be zoicheh already for it to happen and we'll find out in real time.

As @Dan would say: Porque no los dos?

The common הכרעה of תורת החסידות is that there are likely to be two periods of ימות המשיח, the first will be עולם כמנהגו נוהג while the latter will be beyond (or a changing of) the rules of nature. As pointed above, it is not for nothing the the word גאולה has the word גולה embedded in it in its entirety. The גאולה האמיתית והשלימה isn't about wrecking גלות, but rather about revealing אלקות within the same framework, in a way that said framework turns from a concealment of אלקות into a revelation of אלקות.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: flyingace on January 25, 2021, 05:33:20 PM
Interesting perspective. How is this actionable?
What part of that perspective do you find interesting? It seems to be classical Jewish thought.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2021, 06:07:27 PM
There are many different שיטות on how the world will look after Moshiach comes.  Your version may be one of them.  However, there are definitely many that say that in the times of Moshiach there will be rules of nature that will be changed.  For starters, the dead will awaken (tchiyas hameisim, which is definitely outside of the natural realm) as well as that all sicknesses will be healed - the blind will be able to see, the deaf will be able to hear and also anyone suffering from any ailment including but not limited to, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease, alzheimers, etc will be cured.  So you can rest assured that those with COVID will be cured as well.  According to this there will be no death and illnesses experienced any longer on this world.

I have no idea who is right and what will actually be.  Nobody does.  And it won't help us to continue to debate Teva vs Nes or how exactly the world will operate when Moshiach comes.  We should just be zoicheh already for it to happen and we'll find out in real time.
But I didnít say Covid wouldnít be cured or the rules of nature wonít change. I said the world would continue to work scientifically. Does anybody dispute that?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on January 25, 2021, 06:17:04 PM
But I didnít say Covid wouldnít be cured or the rules of nature wonít change. I said the world would continue to work scientifically. Does anybody dispute that?

You did say that we would still need to do hishtadlus to prevent illness, but if there isn't going to be any more illnesses after Moshiach comes why do we need to do anything to prevent them?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2021, 06:44:43 PM
You did say that we would still need to do hishtadlus to prevent illness, but if there isn't going to be any more illnesses after Moshiach comes why do we need to do anything to prevent them?
AFAIK the sources discuss a universal healing at some point. Does anybody say that afterwards there won't be any future illness that hishtadlus will be necessary to prevent?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on January 25, 2021, 07:01:29 PM
AFAIK the sources discuss a universal healing at some point. Does anybody say that afterwards there won't be any future illness that hishtadlus will be necessary to prevent?

I recall that yes, but I don't have a source for you so will not definitively say so.

If I may ask, what exactly would be the point of a universal healing if afterwards we revert back to being able to contract all the various illnesses and maladies we currently suffer from?  Isn't part of our hope for Moshiach's coming so that we won't have to deal with them anymore רחמנא ליצלן?
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2021, 07:15:45 PM
I recall that yes, but I don't have a source for you so will not definitively say so.

If I may ask, what exactly would be the point of a universal healing if afterwards we revert back to being able to contract all the various illnesses and maladies we currently suffer from?  Isn't part of our hope for Moshiach's coming so that we won't have to deal with them anymore רחמנא ליצלן?
Our hope for Moshiach to come should be about increased Avoidas Hashem, it's not a Disney story of a fairytale prince coming to fix all our problems. The world was specifically created to have hardship and pain and thus make the reward feel earned.

IINM the Gemara in Sanhedrin discusses universal healing in the context of permanently maimed and disabled people, so in a way it is part of their Geula. I don't know of any opinion that sickness/hishtadlus will no longer exist, and most certainly not one where the world won't work scientifically. The sun rising in the morning and setting at night is science.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: iluv2travel on January 25, 2021, 07:22:08 PM
Our hope for Moshiach to come should be about increased Avoidas Hashem, it's not a Disney story of a fairytale prince coming to fix all our problems. The world was specifically created to have hardship and pain and thus make the reward feel earned.

IINM the Gemara in Sanhedrin discusses universal healing in the context of permanently maimed and disabled people, so in a way it is part of their Geula. I don't know of any opinion that sickness/hishtadlus will no longer exist, and most certainly not one where the world won't work scientifically. The sun rising in the morning and setting at night is science.

That's why I wrote "part".  We also hope for the rebuilding of the Beis Hamikdash and for the shechinah to return to Har Habayis and a lot of other stuff we say in our prayers daily.

I would need to look into this further to see what the sources say about sicknesses and illnesses post Moshiach coming so I can't comment further.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: EliJelly on January 25, 2021, 09:32:37 PM
@PlatinumGuy, you seem to have forgotten at the moment one of the most famous pieces of רמב׳׳ן בפרשת בחוקותי.

Quote
אבל אלו הברכות שבפרשה הזאת הן כלליות בעם והן בהיות כל עמנו כלם צדיקים ולכך יזכיר תמיד בכאן הארץ ונתנה הארץ לבטח בארצכם שלום בארץ מן הארץ לא תעבור בארצכם וכבר בארנו כי כל אלה הברכות כולם נסים אין בטבע שיבאו הגשמים ויהיה השלום לנו מן האויבים ויבא מורך בלבם לנוס מאה מפני חמשה בעשותנו החוקים והמצות ולא שיהיה הכל היפך מפני זרענו השנה השביעית ואף על פי שהם נסים נסתרים שעולם כמנהגו נוהג עמהם אבל הם מתפרסמים מצד היותם תמיד לעולם בכל הארץ כי אם הצדיק האחד יחיה ויסיר ה' מחלה מקרבו וימלא ימיו יקרה גם זה בקצת רשעים אבל שתהיה ארץ אחת כולה ועם אחד תמיד ברדת הגשם בעתו ושובע ושלוה ושלום ובריאות וגבורה ושברון האויבים בענין שאין כמוהו בכל העולם יוודע לכל כי מאת ה' היתה זאת ועל כן אמר (דברים כח י) וראו כל עמי הארץ כי שם ה' נקרא עליך ויראו ממך והיפך זה יהיה בקללות בעונשי הארץ שאמר (פסוק יט) ונתתי את שמיכם כברזל ועונשי החולי כמו שאמר (דברים כח נט) וחלאים רעים ונאמנים שיקולל המאכל ויחליא ויתפרסם הנס בהיותו תמיד קיים בכולם על כן כתוב (שם כט כא) ואמר הדור האחרון בניכם אשר יקומו מאחריכם והנכרי אשר יבא מארץ רחוקה וראו את מכות הארץ ההיא ואת תחלואיה שלא יתמהו באיש ההוא אשר רבצה בו כל האלה (שם פסוק יט) כי כן יהיה פעמים רבים כמנהגו של עולם בכל האומות שיבאו מקרים רעים באיש אחד רק בארץ ההיא יתמהו וישאלו כל הגוים על מה עשה ה' ככה לארץ הזאת (שם פסוק כג) כי כולם יראו וידעו כי יד ה' עשתה זאת ויאמרו (שם פסוק כד) על אשר עזבו את ברית ה' אלהי אבותם והכלל כי בהיות ישראל שלמים והם רבים לא יתנהג ענינם בטבע כלל לא בגופם ולא בארצם לא בכללם ולא ביחיד מהם כי יברך השם לחמם ומימם ויסיר מחלה מקרבם עד שלא יצטרכו לרופא ולהשתמר בדרך מדרכי הרפואות כלל כמו שאמר (שמות טו כו) כי אני ה' רופאך וכן היו הצדיקים עושים בזמן הנבואה גם כי יקרם עון שיחלו לא ידרשו ברופאים רק בנביאים כענין חזקיהו בחלותו (מ"ב כ ב ג) ואמר הכתוב (דהי"ב טז יב) גם בחליו לא דרש את ה' כי ברופאים ואילו היה דבר הרופאים נהוג בהם מה טעם שיזכיר הרופאים אין האשם רק בעבור שלא דרש השם אבל הוא כאשר יאמר אדם לא אכל פלוני מצה בחג המצות כי אם חמץ אבל הדורש השם בנביא לא ידרוש ברופאים ומה חלק לרופאים בבית עושי רצון השם אחר שהבטיח (שמות כג כה) וברך את לחמך ואת מימיך והסירותי מחלה מקרבך והרופאים אין מעשיהם רק על המאכל והמשקה להזהיר ממנו ולצוות עליו וכך אמרו (ברכות סד) כל עשרין ותרתין שנין דמלך רבה רב יוסף אפילו אומנא לביתיה לא קרא והמשל להם (במדב"ר ט ג) תרעא דלא פתיח למצותא פתיח לאסיא והוא מאמרם (ברכות ס) שאין דרכם של בני אדם ברפואות אלא שנהגו שאילו לא היה דרכם ברפואות יחלה האדם כפי אשר יהיה עליו עונש חטאו ויתרפא ברצון ה' אבל הם נהגו ברפואות והשם הניחם למקרי הטבעים וזו היא כונתם באמרם (שם) ורפא ירפא מכאן שנתנה רשות לרופא לרפאות לא אמרו שנתנה רשות לחולה להתרפאות אלא כיון שחלה החולה ובא להתרפאות כי נהג ברפואות והוא לא היה מעדת השם שחלקם בחיים אין לרופא לאסור עצמו מרפואתו לא מפני חשש שמא ימות בידו אחרי שהוא בקי במלאכה ההיא ולא בעבור שיאמר כי השם לבדו הוא רופא כל בשר שכבר נהגו ועל כן האנשים הנצים שהכו זה את זה באבן או באגרוף (שמות כא יח) יש על המכה תשלומי הרפואה כי התורה לא תסמוך דיניה על הנסים כאשר אמרה (דברים טו יא) כי לא יחדל אביון מקרב הארץ מדעתו שכן יהיה אבל ברצות השם דרכי איש אין לו עסק ברופאים


"וטעם והתהלכתי בתוככם" - שתהיה הנהגתי בכם מפורסמת כמלך מתהלך בקרב מחנהו מספיק להם כל צרכם וזה דרך דברי הברית כפשוטן והוא אמת וכך יעשה בהן בודאי ולא הזכיר הכתוב בכאן שכר קיום הנפשות בעולם הנשמות ובעולם הבא אחרי תחית המתים כי קיומן מחויב בדרך היצירה כמו שפירשתי בכריתות (לעיל יח כט) והעונש הוא שמכרית החייבים מהם והשאר כולם יתקיימו בדרך יצירתם אבל על דרך האמת הברכות האלה עוד הם ברכות שמים בעליונים כמו שפירשתי ונתתי שלום בארץ ולא תגעל נפשי אתכם וכן והתהלכתי בתוככם רמז למדה שקראו רבותינו שכינה מן ונתתי משכני בתוככם ואומרים (מנחות פו) שכינה שורה בישראל ואמרו בבראשית רבה (יט יג) עיקר שכינה בתחתונים היתה והנה הוזכר כאן גן עדן והעולם הבא ליודעיו ואלה הברכות בתשלומיהן לא תהיינה רק בהיות כל ישראל עושין רצון אביהם ובנין שמים וארץ שלם על מכונתו ואין בתורה ברכות שלמות כאלה שהם דברי הברית והתנאים אשר בין הקב"ה ובינינו ודע כי לא השיגו ישראל מעולם לברכות האלה בשלמותן לא הרבים ולא היחידים מהם שלא עלתה זכותם לכך כמו שאמרו (מו"ק טז) על דוד (והוא עורר את חניתו) על שמונה מאות חלל והיה מצטער על מאתים יצתה בת קול ואמרה לו רק בדבר אוריה החתי (מלכים טו ה) ועל כן תמצא לרבותינו ז"ל שיזכירו בפסוקים האלה לעתיד לבוא מלמד שתינוק מישראל עתיד להיות מושיט וכו' (תו"כ פרק ב ב) עתיד הקב"ה לטייל עם הצדיקים לעתיד לבוא (שם פרק ג ג) כי לא נתקיים אבל יתקיים עמנו בזמן השלמות

Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2021, 09:44:39 PM
@PlatinumGuy, you seem to have forgotten at the moment one of the most famous pieces of רמב׳׳ן בפרשת בחוקותי.
You're right. Thank you.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: AsherO on January 25, 2021, 10:19:41 PM
@PlatinumGuy, you seem to have forgotten at the moment one of the most famous pieces of רמב׳׳ן בפרשת בחוקותי.

I love that source, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Ergel on January 26, 2021, 04:15:00 PM
Not sure where to put this stupidity
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-face-masks-hearing-loss-survey
So, you're saying that it's harder to hear someone when they cover their mouth? You don't say
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: ExGingi on January 26, 2021, 07:19:09 PM
Not sure where to put this stupidity
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-face-masks-hearing-loss-survey
So, you're saying that it's harder to hear someone when they cover their mouth? You don't say

Reminds me of the scientist that was trying to find out how flies function. He took off one wing and clapped lowdly, the fly attempted to take to the air but just went around in circles. The result was noted in the research notebook as such. He then removed the remaining wing and clapped lowdly. The fly remained on the surface without making any visible attempt to fly away. Scientist notes in the research notebook "a fly without wings does not hear".
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: YitzyS on January 29, 2021, 08:02:04 AM
https://www.app.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/01/29/test-positive-covid-high-risk-monoclonal-antibodies-may-help/4244158001/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: S209 on January 30, 2021, 08:59:06 PM
https://www.app.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/01/29/test-positive-covid-high-risk-monoclonal-antibodies-may-help/4244158001/
This has indeed been the experience of the people I know who have received the treatment.
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
Post by: Traveler718 on January 30, 2021, 10:35:49 PM
With everyone advising that post-vaccine life shouldn't change much if at all since we don't yet know if those who are vaccinated can still pass it on, here's a different take, curious to hear what others think about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/giving-people-more-freedom-whole-point-vaccines/617829/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
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