Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 09:03:10 PM
Early on they never took this serious.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/senator-says-white-house-turned-down-emergency-coronavirus-funding-in-early-february/ar-BB11OvE1?li=BBnbfcL
Post by: yeshivabucher on March 28, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
List there blunders here.early on no one took it too seriously (especially china)
Early on they never took this serious.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/senator-says-white-house-turned-down-emergency-coronavirus-funding-in-early-february/ar-BB11OvE1?li=BBnbfcL
Post by: yeshivabucher on March 28, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 09:06:40 PM
but to answer your question no just the way things work (or dont depends on whos perspective)No need for perspective. Just the facts.
Post by: Mordyk on March 28, 2020, 09:21:40 PM
And how many of them are to bash trump?
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 09:24:44 PM
How many covid-19 threads have you opened?Just posting facts and not bashing anyone. We deserve to know the truth.
And how many of them are to bash trump?
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 09:29:39 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/03/02/how-the-cdc-botched-its-initial-coronavirus-response-with-faulty-tests/#47b77662670e
Post by: MisterHock on March 28, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
How many covid-19 threads have you opened?Ding ding ding
And how many of them are to bash trump?
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 09:30:54 PM
Ding ding dingJust the facts.
Wiki added so you don't have to read all the troll responses.
Post by: aygart on March 28, 2020, 09:41:14 PM
Post by: yelped on March 28, 2020, 10:02:25 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/pressure-grows-on-trump-to-invoke-defense-production-act-for-coronavirus-response-004710535.html
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 10:10:16 PM
Wait, is anyone of the position here that the federal government did not botch up the response to the emergence of Covid-19? If even we DDFers were apprehensive about it in early January and @yuneeq had sounded the alarms and put together a response plan, why didn't the federal government which is tasked with safeguarding its citizens do even the basics to keep this virus out of our borders and contained? Nevermind, that they botched up even later when it was apparent to all already the grave dangers that the virus posed.There are many who think that way. If you point out how it was botched you are accused of bashing Trump.
Post by: MisterHock on March 28, 2020, 10:10:54 PM
Refusing to use the Defense Production Act.::)
https://news.yahoo.com/pressure-grows-on-trump-to-invoke-defense-production-act-for-coronavirus-response-004710535.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-general-motors-ventilators-defense-production-act
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 10:12:54 PM
::)We lost weeks because he was afraid to use it. Thanks for proving my point.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-general-motors-ventilators-defense-production-act
Post by: yesitsme on March 28, 2020, 10:18:42 PM
We lost weeks because he was afraid to use it. Thanks for proving my point.to sit in NY stockpile
Post by: yuneeq on March 28, 2020, 10:25:27 PM
Quote
Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
I think the truth is pretty much out there if you just look back at the official announcements coming out for the past 2 months. Digging deeper won't be pretty though.
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 10:30:28 PM
to sit in NY stockpileYou are focusing on NY when it will be a national shortage. Respirators are just one thing. Currently as we speak there is a major shortage of PPE equipment. Thousands of companies can make these. Use the DPA to get these made!!!
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 10:33:37 PM
I think the truth is pretty much out there if you just look back at the official announcements coming out for the past 2 months. Digging deeper won't be pretty though.And you wonder why so many didn't and still don't take it serious, NOT!!!
How many Americans will needlessly die from weeks of inaction?
Post by: MisterHock on March 28, 2020, 10:42:45 PM
Currently as we speak there is a major shortage of PPE equipment.Didn't Cuomo say there is no shortage of PPE?
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 10:56:03 PM
Didn't Cuomo say there is no shortage of PPE?This is a national crisis. All over the country there is constant stories of being out/short of PPE. Dr Fauci acknowledged this. He personally receives these calls.
My nephew is at a major hospital and has to swab patients without the proper PPE. They can't get what they need.
Post by: MisterHock on March 28, 2020, 11:02:58 PM
This is a national crisis. All over the country there is constant stories of being out/short of PPE. Dr Fauci acknowledged this. He personally receives these calls.Because there's a genuine shortage or because of the cost increases?
My nephew is at a major hospital and has to swab patients without the proper PPE. They can't get what they need.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 28, 2020, 11:04:32 PM
Especially DeBlasio this furtz!!!
Post by: aygart on March 28, 2020, 11:05:58 PM
Gotta agree with @CountValentine on this one. It’s an embarrassment and ppl will die due to the inaction!!! The entire political system was so off in managing and preparing for this crisis. Love when you go back to January/February and watch how the overwhelming majority of politicians mayors governors etc all saying that they’re prepared... lol so off these ppl they should all be fired.The only thing done right was the travel ban from China. That bought time which was squandered.
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Because there's a genuine shortage or because of the cost increases?There is a shortage, period!!!
There is a shortage of test kits, period!!!
Do you listen/watch the news? You think all these hospitals are just making these stories up?
Post by: Shmobaum on March 28, 2020, 11:08:44 PM
Post by: yelped on March 28, 2020, 11:11:46 PM
My prediction is that Trump will lose the election as a result.Why are we still busy with elections and not about getting things done now?? Why is everything politics in this country?
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 11:12:21 PM
My prediction is that Trump will lose the election as a result.Unfortunately that seems to be effecting his decisions.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 28, 2020, 11:13:12 PM
Why are we still busy with elections and not about getting things done now?? Why is everything politics in this country?What can I do now from my couch to help get things done?!?
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 11:14:14 PM
Why is everything politics in this country?A large percentage of the country (left and right) can't separate politics from anything else.
Post by: good sam on March 28, 2020, 11:14:37 PM
My prediction is that Trump will lose the election as a result.Yes, if there were a viable alternative. It's laughable to think Joe would have done a better job. I think this helps Trump ultimately because nobody has given a thought to Biden or the election in the last month. Just check Trump approval ratings.
Post by: aygart on March 28, 2020, 11:17:43 PM
A large percentage of the country (left and right) can't separate politics from anything else.They aren't separate. Three is almost nothing not affected by politics.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 28, 2020, 11:17:59 PM
Yes, if there were a viable alternative. It's laughable to think Joe would have done a better job. I think this helps Trump ultimately because nobody has given a thought to Biden or the election in the last month. Just check Trump approval ratings.Good point. However, ppl are upset at the current leader and thus will throw him out of office. I understand that.
Post by: yelped on March 28, 2020, 11:18:37 PM
Unfortunately that seems to be affecting his decisions.100%. Loser.
A large percentage of the country (left and right) can't separate politics from anything else.So keep up the stupid politics while the ship sinks....
Post by: CountValentine on March 28, 2020, 11:20:01 PM
Just check Trump approval ratings.His poll numbers are high because we as Americans support our president in a time of a crisis. That changes the longer it goes on and when the truth comes out.
Since you want to talk about ratings did you see todays FOX poll. Biden destroys Trump. What does it say about Trump when someone who is showing early signs of dementia is beating him?
Post by: Shmobaum on March 28, 2020, 11:24:00 PM
Post by: aygart on March 28, 2020, 11:27:56 PM
His poll numbers are high because we as Americans support our president in a time of a crisis. That changes the longer it goes on and when the truth comes out.The big question will be if Biden can capitalize on it.
Since you want to talk about ratings did you see todays FOX poll. Biden destroys Trump. What does it say about Trump when someone who is showing early signs of dementia is beating him?
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2020, 11:31:15 PM
Additionally, every single doctor who claimed in Jan/Feb that the regular flu is more dangerous than this virus and laughed the whole thing off SHOULD LOSE HIS LICENSE!!!Amen. Some are still saying it too ::)
Post by: MisterHock on March 28, 2020, 11:46:30 PM
The big question will be if Biden can capitalize on it.You mean the guy who has been MIA the last two weeks?
Post by: flatbush guy on March 28, 2020, 11:59:06 PM
Yes, if there were a viable alternative. It's laughable to think Joe would have done a better job. I think this helps Trump ultimately because nobody has given a thought to Biden or the election in the last month. Just check Trump approval ratings.Trump, who knows very little about the science, as anyone who listens to his daily "briefings" knows, crowds everyone out.Biden or anyone who half a brain and normal ego would let professionals run the the response to the pandemic.
Its embarrassing hearing Trump and realizing the emperor has no seichel
Post by: flatbush guy on March 29, 2020, 12:00:40 AM
Small example of Trumps' claims and the actual facts
Post by: CountValentine on March 29, 2020, 02:38:43 AM
You mean the guy who has been MIA the last two weeks?Where do you get your news from? Seems you been living under a rock. He has been on almost every day. He would be better off if he was MIA.
Post by: S209 on March 29, 2020, 02:45:28 AM
Amen. Some are still saying it too ::)Who???
Post by: CountValentine on March 29, 2020, 02:46:44 AM
Who???Turn on FOX.
Post by: S209 on March 29, 2020, 02:48:13 AM
Turn on FOX.They’re still saying that?
Post by: CountValentine on March 29, 2020, 02:54:17 AM
They’re still saying that?They started up again when Trump stated he want the country back to work by Easter. The pushed the BS again how the flu and autos kill more.
Post by: MisterHock on March 29, 2020, 05:59:03 AM
Where do you get your news from? Seems you been living under a rock. He has been on almost every day. He would be better off if he was MIA.https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/democrats-need-to-recruit-obama-to-bench-biden-find-another-candidate-goodwin/
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 07:04:28 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-got-170-broken-ventilators-from-feds-silicon-valley-is-fixing-them-newsom-says/ar-BB11SvJN?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: MisterHock on March 30, 2020, 07:30:09 AM
First faulty test kits now faulty ventilators and our incompetent president rants about TV ratings. >:( >:( >:(Are these the ventilators that Cuomo put in STORAGE after receiving from the feds?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-got-170-broken-ventilators-from-feds-silicon-valley-is-fixing-them-newsom-says/ar-BB11SvJN?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 07:32:32 AM
Are these the ventilators that Cuomo put in STORAGE after receiving from the feds?Keep living in denial.
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 10:17:10 AM
"The president, his denial at the beginning, was deadly," Ms Pelosi said.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/coronavirus-nancy-pelosi-condemns-trumps-e2-80-98deadly-e2-80-99-delay-in-response-to-covid-19-pandemic/ar-BB11Sn1K
Post by: Jeremiah on March 30, 2020, 10:36:21 AM
Post by: good sam on March 30, 2020, 12:10:09 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
When the dust clears, the biggest failure of all may be the failure to make masks available to the public, and worse, those agencies and organizations that said not to bother with masks as they don't help.The problem is we didn't have enough masks for hospital workers let alone the general public. Trumps needs to force any and all companies to make surgical masks for every single person. It should be mandatory to wear them!!!
Post by: good sam on March 30, 2020, 12:13:59 PM
The problem is we didn't have enough masks for hospital workers let alone the general public. Trumps needs to force any and all companies to make surgical masks for every single person. It should be mandatory to wear them!!!Right. There should have been mass production months ago
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 12:15:04 PM
Right. There should have been mass production months ago...it will still help now but they can't even get this right.
Post by: joeb1 on March 30, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
thank you for sharing your insight
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
ok we get the point you dont like trumpI don't like Pelosi either but she is right.
thank you for sharing your insight
Post by: MisterHock on March 30, 2020, 12:23:40 PM
I don't like Pelosi either but she is right.Like when she stalled the stimulus bill for week?
Post by: Dan on March 30, 2020, 12:29:05 PM
She is 100% correct but is it to soon to go there?Wasn't she against the China travel ban?
"The president, his denial at the beginning, was deadly," Ms Pelosi said.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/coronavirus-nancy-pelosi-condemns-trumps-e2-80-98deadly-e2-80-99-delay-in-response-to-covid-19-pandemic/ar-BB11Sn1K
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 12:46:29 PM
Wasn't she against the China travel ban?Not sure but I would guess yes.
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 12:48:43 PM
Like when she stalled the stimulus bill for week?She got massive increases for workers, hospitals and small businesses. I will wait a couple of days for those increases any day, wouldn't you?
Post by: aygart on March 30, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Wasn't she against the China travel ban?Of course she was.
Post by: aygart on March 30, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
She got massive increases for workers, hospitals and small businesses. I will wait a couple of days for those increases any day, wouldn't you?Still running with that false narrative, huh?
Post by: Dan on March 30, 2020, 12:57:43 PM
Not sure but I would guess yes.So her response was even more deadly. They all have egg on their face.
Post by: aygart on March 30, 2020, 01:00:47 PM
So her response was even more deadly. They all have egg on their face.Of course, but the president is still the top of the totem pole.
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
So her response was even more deadly. They all have egg on their face.Her response was political.
Post by: aygart on March 30, 2020, 01:05:09 PM
March 20 MSNBC's Rachel @maddow:
— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) March 30, 2020
"There is no sign that the Navy hospital ships that the president made such a big deal of, the Comfort and the Mercy, there's no sign that they'll be anywhere on-site helping out anywhere in the country for weeks yet."pic.twitter.com/NkyzUqaEME
Post by: grodnoking on March 30, 2020, 01:11:26 PM
Her response was political.Who's worse?
Someone who kills someone because they are mentally unstable, or someone who attempts kills someone because they don't like the person's boss?
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 01:13:28 PM
Who's worse?Wait a minute. What decision did she make that that caused people to die?
Someone who kills someone because they are mentally unstable, or someone who kills someone because they don't like the person's boss?
I don't like her and won't support her but lets not rewrite history.
Post by: grodnoking on March 30, 2020, 01:14:54 PM
Wait a minute. What decision did she make that that caused people to die?
You're right. FTFM.
Who's worse?
Someone who kills someone because they are mentally unstable, or someone who attempts kills someone because they don't like the person's boss?
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
You're right. FTFM.Say what? What attempt did she make?
Do you understand what I meant by "political response"?
Post by: grodnoking on March 30, 2020, 01:23:06 PM
Say what? What attempt did she make?Even her political response can have consequences on the end result, and such results can cause a change which causes death.
Do you understand what I meant by "political response"?
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 01:54:57 PM
Even her political response can have consequences on the end result, and such results can cause a change which causes death.True but in this case I fail to see how her saying Trump was wrong to stop flights caused deaths.
Post by: MisterHock on March 30, 2020, 03:00:50 PM
Her response was political.Her response was deadly.
Post by: aygart on March 30, 2020, 04:55:19 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Post by: whYME on March 30, 2020, 05:02:07 PM
Well this is what he needs to do.....I think what he was trying to say is "we need to see what the president does and then we can shout about how he's doing it all wrong and he needs to do something else."
Invalid Tweet ID
Post by: Lurker on March 30, 2020, 05:31:57 PM
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 05:34:01 PM
Her response was deadly.Her response had no impact. Trump is the one who waited weeks and did nothing after the ban.
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 05:35:55 PM
Can anyone show me a politician who has handled this properly, in a way that didn't cost any lives? I don't know why we keep pointing fingers, as if anyone else did it (or is doing it) right.Any past president would have listened to the experts and acted. Just like many states are listening to the experts and acting.
Post by: Lurker on March 30, 2020, 05:38:26 PM
Any past president would have listened to the experts and acted. Just like many states are listening to the experts and acting.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Can you point to an actual, named politician, who is currently handling this properly?
Post by: aygart on March 30, 2020, 05:43:48 PM
Can anyone show me a politician who has handled this properly, in a way that didn't cost any lives? I don't know why we keep pointing fingers, as if anyone else did it (or is doing it) right.Maybe Netanyahu.
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 05:51:00 PM
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Can you point to an actual, named politician, who is currently handling this properly?The last time I checked we only have one president. The same president that said "I don't take responsibility".
Every state could have done better. They can only do so much.
Post by: CountValentine on March 30, 2020, 05:52:41 PM
Post by: Dan on March 30, 2020, 05:55:23 PM
Maybe Netanyahu.That's what I was going to say.
Post by: Lurker on March 30, 2020, 05:58:54 PM
Maybe Netanyahu.
You mean the guy whose government flew hundreds of people into his country when they knew they were infected? And forgot to tell the other passengers on those planes? And then only quarantined the people they knew were sick and didn't bother testing anyone else who sat with infected people for hours in a sealed tube?
He did better, I'll give him that. But huge gaffes right and left in the Israeli response, just like everyone else.
Post by: yelped on March 30, 2020, 08:45:39 PM
Maybe Netanyahu.But they didn't clamp down enough in the Chareidi neighborhoods until recently and now the cases are going to jump like crazy. :'(
Not that I blame them.... Peleg and Meah Sheaurim people are one tough crowd....
Post by: S209 on March 30, 2020, 08:46:00 PM
You mean the guy whose government flew hundreds of people into his country when they knew they were infected? And forgot to tell the other passengers on those planes? And then only quarantined the people they knew were sick and didn't bother testing anyone else who sat with infected people for hours in a sealed tube?As of this date they are doing amazing, from a sheer numbers perspective. Time will tell if he did well. I’m rooting for him, and not because I like him.
He did better, I'll give him that. But huge gaffes right and left in the Israeli response, just like everyone else.
Post by: Lurker on March 30, 2020, 09:54:15 PM
As of this date they are doing amazing, from a sheer numbers perspective. Time will tell if he did well. I’m rooting for him, and not because I like him.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-israelis-fleeing-the-coronavirus-in-new-york-met-contagion-in-the-skies/
https://crownheights.info/chabad-news/702101/kfar-chabad-put-in-total-lockdown/
I'm rooting for him, too. And as far as deaths, the numbers are amazing so far. God willing they'll stay low. But stupid moves like flying infected people home and not shutting down Bnei Brak and Mea Shearim don't show great leadership. It shows a politician thinking like a politician, trying to keep everyone happy.
Post by: Shmobaum on March 31, 2020, 01:07:50 AM
That's what I was going to say.Dan you were so right when after every post about “draconian” Israeli measures, you ended-
“History will judge who’s approach was right”.
I can see that already...
Post by: aygart on March 31, 2020, 08:33:00 AM
Dan you were so right when after every post about “draconian” Israeli measures, you ended-The main point I am seeing in this post is that everyone is grasping at thin air.
“History will judge who’s approach was right”.
I can see that already...
Post by: aygart on March 31, 2020, 09:50:20 AM
LAST WEEK: Trump mocked for suggesting "sanitizing masks" and the drug Chloroquine. TODAY: Technology can sanitize 120,000 masks/day and Chloroquine has been approved by FDA for #CoronaVirus. Any questions?
— Steven Crowder (@scrowder) March 30, 2020
Post by: aygart on March 31, 2020, 02:00:44 PM
Maybe Netanyahu.https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety (https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety)
Post by: Lurker on March 31, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
Maybe Netanyahu.
https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety (https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety)
I pray your chart keeps Israel in it's current position until this is all over.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-idiotic-breach-hundreds-from-virus-epicenters-enter-israel-with-no-checks/
Post by: CountValentine on March 31, 2020, 10:23:58 PM
Post by: Shmobaum on March 31, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
It looks like the mask issue was a major blunder and still is. Today Trump says to wear a scarf. ::)Cashmere?
Post by: good sam on April 01, 2020, 01:01:21 AM
It looks like the mask issue was a major blunder and still is. Today Trump says to wear a scarf. ::)We were all brainwashed, myself included. Just look around the forums and see how many are preaching about masks not working. This will turn out to have been a major blunder indeed.
Post by: yuneeq on April 01, 2020, 01:59:06 AM
We were all brainwashed, myself included. Just look around the forums and see how many are preaching about masks not working. This will turn out to have been a major blunder indeed.
I've been screaming from the rooftops that the CDC has been preaching fake news about masks all along.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114606.msg2206925#msg2206925
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 07:07:10 AM
It looks like the mask issue was a major blunder and still is. Today Trump says to wear a scarf. ::)If the main thing is so that the wearer's aerosols get caught in it and don't spread then why wouldn't a scarf accomplish that? A surgical mask is also own on the sides. I have been telling people privately for a while that they should use scarfs of not masks. How are they worse than homemade masks?
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 10:30:31 AM
We were all brainwashed, myself included. Just look around the forums and see how many are preaching about masks not working. This will turn out to have been a major blunder indeed.Change we to most. Mask do work and I gave my first hand account when I was required to wear them during another crisis.
Anyone who used a little common sense could see they work. The problem is/was they didn't want to have a run on masks.
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 10:31:19 AM
I've been screaming from the rooftops that the CDC has been preaching fake news about masks all along.Not sure I would call it fake news. They were walking a fine line.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114606.msg2206925#msg2206925
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 10:32:54 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-economists-warned-in-2019-a-pandemic-could-devastate-america/ar-BB11YWHC?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 11:02:23 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-covid-19-cases-surge-to-nearly-7000-as-ron-desantis-resists-statewide-restrictions/ar-BB120I6C?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 11:24:36 AM
Like the title says the truth will come out. What did they know and when did they know it?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-economists-warned-in-2019-a-pandemic-could-devastate-america/ar-BB11YWHC?ocid=spartanntp
Wow Adam Schiff couldn't have done the inuendo better if he tried.
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 03:02:56 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-seeks-to-blame-cdc-and-china-for-any-delay-in-us-coronavirus-response-not-trumps-initial-failure-to-face-reality/ar-BB121GUm?li=BBnb7Kz
At the coronavirus briefing on February 26, for example, Trump said all of the following: "This is a flu. This is like a flu"; "Now, you treat this like a flu"; "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 03:14:44 PM
Now they want to blame the CDC and China but you can't rewrite history.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-seeks-to-blame-cdc-and-china-for-any-delay-in-us-coronavirus-response-not-trumps-initial-failure-to-face-reality/ar-BB121GUm?li=BBnb7Kz (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-seeks-to-blame-cdc-and-china-for-any-delay-in-us-coronavirus-response-not-trumps-initial-failure-to-face-reality/ar-BB121GUm?li=BBnb7Kz)
At the coronavirus briefing on February 26, for example, Trump said all of the following: "This is a flu. This is like a flu"; "Now, you treat this like a flu"; "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
I see there CNN. Top right.
I wonder if any of these did the same?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUhN5aIWkAATlag?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: Yammer on April 01, 2020, 03:16:10 PM
I see there CNN. Top right.Was that the position of the CDC though?
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Was that the position of the CDC though?I don't know. It is just that the article is from CNN. Anyone saying that he should have known should be looking at what EVERYONE was saying at the time. Yes, there was reason to see it to be untrue, but just look how many were comparing it to the flu.
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 05:03:53 PM
Was that the position of the CDC though?Not sure but the point is they are trying to blame everyone besides the guy who claimed 15 will be zero, it is just the flu, it is a D hoax and the list goes on and on.
His inaction and head buried in the sand attitude cost American lives. How many remains to be seen.
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 05:07:10 PM
&feature=youtu.be
Post by: whYME on April 01, 2020, 05:21:09 PM
Not sureUm, isn't that the most important question here?
The only real problem here is if the CDC came to Trump and said "this is gonna be bad, we need to do xyz to prepare" and he told them to stand down.
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 05:38:39 PM
it is a D hoax#fakenews never happened.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 01, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Post by: whYME on April 01, 2020, 05:55:03 PM
Can we do the same thread, but for de Blasio?So you're looking for a candidate for a new "longest thread on DDF?"
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 01, 2020, 06:01:29 PM
So you're looking for a candidate for a new "longest thread on DDF?"Cuomo is overruling him *today* while NYers are burying people by the dozen.
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Can we do the same thread, but for de Blasio?You mean he did something to be called a blunder?
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 01, 2020, 06:27:37 PM
You mean he did something to be called a blunder?No, he was too busy making movie recommendations and going to the gym to make any blunders
Post by: aygart on April 01, 2020, 07:15:18 PM
No, he was too busy making movie recommendations and going to the gym to make any blundersDon't forget about the China Parade.
Post by: CountValentine on April 01, 2020, 08:28:27 PM
Can we do the same thread, but for de Blasio?Sure start one or is it the duty of your slave? >:(
Post by: chevron on April 02, 2020, 12:22:51 AM
COVID-19 was taking off in China for at least a month before it first reached U.S. shores. And during that month, not much actually happened [in the U.S.]. A lot of preparedness measures could have been launched. The country could have sprung into action, ready for this, for the virus to eventually reach it. But if anything, America more or less sat idle. It was sluggish. And I do wonder if that propensity to think of itself as being truly exceptional, that slight hubris, left it more unprepared than it needed to be. And I think that even though many people had warned about this for a long time, the underwhelming nature of America's response to this threat has really surprised even people who had been warning, who had been issuing alarms.
There is a thing called the Global Health Security Index, which ranks different countries according to their levels of preparedness for pandemics, according to 140 different criteria, based on regulations from the World Health Organization. And out of all the countries that were assessed, the United States has the highest score — 83.5, a solid B. But if you look at how the country has actually reacted to the pandemic, I think we probably get something like an F. This nation that was meant to be the most prepared of all has really flubbed its response, and I think, to a degree, that has shocked even the most alarmed or pessimistic people who I'd spoken to before, in my earlier reporting.
Post by: S209 on April 02, 2020, 07:12:42 AM
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/01/825179922/fighting-covid-19-is-like-whack-a-mole-says-writer-who-warned-of-pandemic
COVID-19 was taking off in China for at least a month before it first reached U.S. shores. And during that month, not much actually happened [in the U.S.]. A lot of preparedness measures could have been launched. The country could have sprung into action, ready for this, for the virus to eventually reach it. But if anything, America more or less sat idle. It was sluggish. And I do wonder if that propensity to think of itself as being truly exceptional, that slight hubris, left it more unprepared than it needed to be. And I think that even though many people had warned about this for a long time, the underwhelming nature of America's response to this threat has really surprised even people who had been warning, who had been issuing alarms.
There is a thing called the Global Health Security Index, which ranks different countries according to their levels of preparedness for pandemics, according to 140 different criteria, based on regulations from the World Health Organization. And out of all the countries that were assessed, the United States has the highest score — 83.5, a solid B. But if you look at how the country has actually reacted to the pandemic, I think we probably get something like an F. This nation that was meant to be the most prepared of all has really flubbed its response, and I think, to a degree, that has shocked even the most alarmed or pessimistic people who I'd spoken to before, in my earlier reporting.
Do you think the constant lying from the WHO and China might have had something to do with it? Or are those just Republican talking points so we can’t admit they’re actually true?
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 07:56:24 AM
Do you think the constant lying from the WHO and China might have had something to do with it? Or are those just Republican talking points so we can’t admit they’re actually true?Of course China lied. Always has and always will. They might be Trumps friend but they are not USA friend!!!
Do you think Trump not taking this serious from the beginning just made things worse and in the end will cost more lives has anything to do with it? Or are those just anyone with a brain talking points so we can't admit they're actually true?
Post by: yuneeq on April 02, 2020, 08:27:22 AM
In reality the media was downplaying it, but Trump is the decision maker and ultimately the most responsible for this mess. Whataboutism won’t change anything for me.
Post by: S209 on April 02, 2020, 08:46:42 AM
Of course China lied. Always has and always will. They might be Trumps friend but they are not USA friend!!!
Do you think Trump not taking this serious from the beginning just made things worse and in the end will cost more lives has anything to do with it? Or are those just anyone with a brain talking points so we can't admit they're actually true?
I find it funny that some people in my circles were claiming for weeks that the coronavirus is all being hyped up by the media to make Trump look bad, and are now claiming the media was downplaying it during that same time period and obviously Trump shouldn’t be any smarter than them.
In reality the media was downplaying it, but Trump is the decision maker and ultimately the most responsible for this mess. Whataboutism won’t change anything for me.
Republicans and Dems alike downplayed it for all it was worth. Most countries are getting crushed by it, it came out of left field, and China is more to blame than anyone else.
Still, Trump definitely made a royal mess of things and looks like a fool too. Would Biden, Clinton, or Sanders have handled it differently? That’s the question you need to ask yourself.
Reminder: Obama allowed 60 million Americans to get infected with Swine Flu. Ultimately it didn’t turn out to be too deadly thank G-d but IIRC the fatality rate was extremely uncertain in the early days and we still all got infected. Obama gets no credit for the lower death rate, that’s just the way it was. Just food for thought.
I’m not blaming Obama either. In a country that promotes individual freedom and choice above all else the government is very limited in what it can do to contain a virus when the public is not cooperating or aware of the extent of the devastation.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 09:05:03 AM
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/01/825179922/fighting-covid-19-is-like-whack-a-mole-says-writer-who-warned-of-pandemic
COVID-19 was taking off in China for at least a month before it first reached U.S. shores. And during that month, not much actually happened [in the U.S.]. A lot of preparedness measures could have been launched. The country could have sprung into action, ready for this, for the virus to eventually reach it. But if anything, America more or less sat idle. It was sluggish. And I do wonder if that propensity to think of itself as being truly exceptional, that slight hubris, left it more unprepared than it needed to be. And I think that even though many people had warned about this for a long time, the underwhelming nature of America's response to this threat has really surprised even people who had been warning, who had been issuing alarms.
This is the real point. The time was available. We even got some extra time through the travel ban, which was a great move. They then went ahead and squadered it. Is some of that because the impeachment process was a distraction? Most definitely, but that is not an excuse. At the end of the day the POTUS is still responsible.
Republicans and Dems alike downplayed it for all it was worth. Most countries are getting crushed by it, it came out of left field, and China is more to blame than anyone else.Clinton is irrelevant. She is old news. Sanders has shown how horrible he would be in a crisis. Even today, he and his ilk like AOC, Warren, Omar, etc., have nothing more than class warfare and socialized medicine to discuss.
Still, Trump definitely made a royal mess of things and looks like a fool too. Would Biden, Clinton, or Sanders have handled it differently? That’s the question you need to ask yourself.
Reminder: Obama allowed 60 million Americans to get infected with Swine Flu. Ultimately it didn’t turn out to be too deadly thank G-d but IIRC the fatality rate was extremely uncertain in the early days and we still all got infected. Obama gets no credit for the lower death rate, that’s just the way it was. Just food for thought.
I’m not blaming Obama either. In a country that promotes individual freedom and choice above all else the government is very limited in what it can do to contain a virus when the public is not cooperating or aware of the extent of the devastation.
Biden has one thing going for him, which is that he would be more inclined to listen to experts. The concern of course is that he is showing very clear signs of dementia.
Trump can only discuss what it has to do with him. That is very dangerous. He may also be showing some early signs of Alzheimers.
At the end of the day, "pick your poison" is a gross understatement.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 09:58:31 AM
This is the real point. The time was available. We even got some extra time through the travel ban, which was a great move. They then went ahead and squadered it. Is some of that because the impeachment process was a distraction? Most definitely, but that is not an excuse. At the end of the day the POTUS is still responsible.
Clinton is irrelevant. She is old news. Sanders has shown how horrible he would be in a crisis. Even today, he and his ilk like AOC, Warren, Omar, etc., have nothing more than class warfare and socialized medicine to discuss.
Biden has one thing going for him, which is that he would be more inclined to listen to experts. The concern of course is that he is showing very clear signs of dementia.
Trump can only discuss what it has to do with him. That is very dangerous. He may also be showing some early signs of Alzheimers.
At the end of the day, "pick your poison" is a gross understatement.
On the other hand, the way it was reported at the time was that all of the experts were playing it down. Maybe he listened to the experts too much?
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 10:26:29 AM
On the other hand, the way it was reported at the time was that all of the experts were playing it down. Maybe he listened to the experts too much?
The one thing missing from all these speculations is direct contact. The administration has open lines of communication with China, as well as innumerable back channel connections. Do you really think Trump says the things he says in Dec, Jan, and Feb unless he's getting info from China telling him that it's just a flu, or that they have it under control? To Trump's mind, why would China lie? China is trying to usurp the US as the undisputed leader of the world. Yes, this may kill 1 million Americans and cripple the US economy, but it would also make China the world's most hated country for letting this spread globally and causing tens, if not hundreds, of millions of deaths.
The real question is, why did China lie? What's the benefit? What's the end-game?
Post by: yitzgar on April 02, 2020, 10:30:47 AM
The one thing missing from all these speculations is direct contact. The administration has open lines of communication with China, as well as innumerable back channel connections. Do you really think Trump says the things he says in Dec, Jan, and Feb unless he's getting info from China telling him that it's just a flu, or that they have it under control? To Trump's mind, why would China lie? China is trying to usurp the US as the undisputed leader of the world. Yes, this may kill 1 million Americans and cripple the US economy, but it would also make China the world's most hated country for letting this spread globally and causing tens, if not hundreds, of millions of deaths.Conspiracy theorist much?
The real question is, why did China lie? What's the benefit? What's the end-game?
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 10:32:36 AM
The real question is, why did China lie? What's the benefit? What's the end-game?At first they were try to prevent it from being another SARS then they were backed into a corner from their lies so they needed to pile more lies on top of it hoping it would pass over and end up like SARS
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 10:37:12 AM
Conspiracy theorist much?
Tell me what didn't make sense to you and I'll walk you through it again.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 10:39:47 AM
At first they were try to prevent it from being another SARS then they were backed into a corner from their lies so they needed to pile more lies on top of it hoping it would pass over and end up like SARS
So you think it started off innocent. They thought they had it under control, then had to lie to cover up when they lost control. And then continued to lie, because the world was going to blame them anyway, so they went all in.
Based on this theory, when exactly was our government supposed to have reacted differently? 2019? January, February, March?
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 10:42:31 AM
So you think it started off innocent. They thought they had it under control, then had to lie to cover up when they lost control. And then continued to lie, because the world was going to blame them anyway, so they went all in.Which part of what I wrote are you considering innocent?
Based on this theory, when exactly was our government supposed to have reacted differently? 2019? January, February, March?
At the same time that the travel ban was put in place at the middle to end of Jan when it was apparent that this was highly contagious they should have begun preparing for the likelihood of it reaching our shores.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 10:50:10 AM
Which part of what I wrote are you considering innocent?
That they honestly didn't realize the severity and the risk.
At the same time that the travel ban was put in place at the middle to end of Jan when it was apparent that this was highly contagious they should have begun preparing for the likelihood of it reaching our shores.
To play devil's advocate, maybe the travel ban wasn't because we realized it was highly contagious, but just because China told us they had it under control, and it was becoming apparent that they didn't. The travel ban could have been our shot across the bow, tellng China to get their house in order.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 11:03:01 AM
That they honestly didn't realize the severity and the risk.I am sur ethey didn't when the first reports were coming in during December. They thought it was SARS and wanted to cover that up. That isn't too innocent. Had they taken it seriously during those first few weeks it could have possibly stopped the whole thing.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
That they honestly didn't realize the severity and the risk.We saw that it was contagious. It didn't take much to see that.
To play devil's advocate, maybe the travel ban wasn't because we realized it was highly contagious, but just because China told us they had it under control, and it was becoming apparent that they didn't. The travel ban could have been our shot across the bow, tellng China to get their house in order.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 11:38:52 AM
We saw that it was contagious. It didn't take much to see that.Look at the date
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG
— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
Look at the datePreliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG
— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020
No evidence other than what @yuneeq posted here......
Post by: chevron on April 02, 2020, 11:49:00 AM
We saw that it was contagious. It didn't take much to see that.
Yeah but we were getting news about how China was enacting such severe lockdowns.
I did read articles about how there were people who had left at the beginning.
This is part of the reason I was upset at New York I figured that once it already reached New York, The entire New York New Jersey area would be infected soon.
And I knew that me and Miami would be not far behind.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 11:51:40 AM
Yeah but we were getting news about how China was enacting such severe lockdowns.
I did read articles about how there were people who had left at the beginning.
This is part of the reason I was upset at New York I figured that once it already reached New York, The entire New York New Jersey area would be infected soon.
And I knew that me and Miami would be not far behind.
FTR, it is likely that NYC came from MIA
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 12:32:44 PM
(Besides his ignorance over the number 19 in COVID-19)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUnKAJJWAAUsgLp?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUnKAJHXkAcRaQ1?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: chevron on April 02, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
FTR, it is likely that NYC came from MIA
MIA had issues from the get go in terms of cruise ships.
I thought NYC came from Italy and or Israel ?
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 12:42:22 PM
Let's not forget the idiocy of some conservative talking heads.I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.
(Besides his ignorance over the number 19 in COVID-19)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUnKAJJWAAUsgLp?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUnKAJHXkAcRaQ1?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 12:46:05 PM
I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.
I think many of the issues in our country are because people in general listen to talking heads like this one too much. That goes for all sides of the spectrum.
Post by: chevron on April 02, 2020, 12:51:09 PM
I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.
This is a text I got March 4;
This is from a pathologist in Boca Raton, FL:
Subject: What I am doing for the upcoming COVID-19 (coronavirus) pandemic.
Dear Colleagues, as some of you may recall, when I was a professor of pathology at the University of California San Diego, I was one of the first molecular virologists in the world to work on coronaviruses (the 1970s). I was the first to demonstrate the number of genes the virus contained. Since then, I have kept up with the coronavirus field and its multiple clinical transfers into the human population (e.g., SARS, MERS), from different animal sources.
The current projections for its expansion in the US are only probable, due to continued insufficient worldwide data, but it is most likely to be widespread in the US by mid to late March and April.
Here is what I have done and the precautions that I take and will take. These are the same precautions I currently use during our influenza seasons, except for the mask and gloves.:
1) NO HANDSHAKING! Use a fist bump, slight bow, elbow bump, etc.
2) Use ONLY your knuckle to touch light switches. elevator buttons, etc.. Lift the gasoline dispenser with a paper towel or use a disposable glove.
3) Open doors with your closed fist or hip - do not grasp the handle with your hand, unless there is no other way to open the door. Especially important on bathroom and post office/commercial doors.
4) Use disinfectant wipes at the stores when they are available, including wiping the handle and child seat in grocery carts.
5) Wash your hands with soap for 10-20 seconds and/or use a greater than 60% alcohol-based hand sanitizer whenever you return home from ANY activity that involves locations where other people have been.
6) Keep a bottle of sanitizer available at each of your home's entrances. AND in your car for use after getting gas or touching other contaminated objects when you can't immediately wash your hands.
7) If possible, cough or sneeze into a disposable tissue and discard. Use your elbow only if you have to. The clothing on your elbow will contain infectious virus that can be passed on for up to a week or more!
What I have stocked in preparation for the pandemic spread to the US:
1) Latex or nitrile latex disposable gloves for use when going shopping, using the gasoline pump, and all other outside activity when you come in contact with contaminated areas.
Note: This virus is spread in large droplets by coughing and sneezing. This means that the air will not infect you! BUT all the surfaces where these droplets land are infectious for about a week on average - everything that is associated with infected people will be contaminated and potentially infectious. The virus is on surfaces and you will not be infected unless your unprotected face is directly coughed or sneezed upon. This virus only has cell receptors for lung cells (it only infects your lungs) The only way for the virus to infect you is through your nose or mouth via your hands or an infected cough or sneeze onto or into your nose or mouth.
2) Stock up now with disposable surgical masks and use them to prevent you from touching your nose and/or mouth (We touch our nose/mouth 90X/day without knowing it!). This is the only way this virus can infect you - it is lung-specific. The mask will not prevent the virus in a direct sneeze from getting into your nose or mouth - it is only to keep you from touching your nose or mouth.
3) Stock up now with hand sanitizers and latex/nitrile gloves (get the appropriate sizes for your family). The hand sanitizers must be alcohol-based and greater than 60% alcohol to be effective.
4) Stock up now with zinc lozenges. These lozenges have been proven to be effective in blocking coronavirus (and most other viruses) from multiplying in your throat and nasopharynx. Use as directed several times each day when you begin to feel ANY "cold-like" symptoms beginning. It is best to lie down and let the lozenge dissolve in the back of your throat and nasopharynx. Cold-Eeze lozenges is one brand available, but there are other brands available.
I, as many others do, hope that this pandemic will be reasonably contained, BUT I personally do not think it will be. Humans have never seen this snake-associated virus before and have no internal defense against it. Tremendous worldwide efforts are being made to understand the molecular and clinical virology of this virus. Unbelievable molecular knowledge about the genomics, structure, and virulence of this virus has already been achieved. BUT, there will be NO drugs or vaccines available this year to protect us or limit the infection within us. Only symptomatic support is available.
I hope these personal thoughts will be helpful during this potentially catastrophic pandemic. You are welcome to share this email.
Good luck to all of us!
Jim
James Robb, MD FCAP
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
MIA had issues from the get go in terms of cruise ships.Patient zero in New Rochelle caught it in MIA.
I thought NYC came from Italy and or Israel ?
Post by: grodnoking on April 02, 2020, 12:57:23 PM
Patient zero in New Rochelle caught it in MIA.We don't know that.
Post by: Dan on April 02, 2020, 01:03:55 PM
I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.Yup. Many conservative talk radio junkies said for weeks that it was all media propaganda.
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Yup. Many conservative talk radio junkies said for weeks that it was all media propaganda.The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 01:37:01 PM
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.They accused him of overreacting with the travel ban.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 01:46:44 PM
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.It doesn't matter that you're right. What matters is what actually happened and what cost people's lives.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
I think it was a no-win for Trump (or any leader).
If you take extreme measures right away and minimize the death toll, you over-reacted. "We would have beaten this thing anyway because our healthcare system, or (insert other country) only got it bad because they did x wrong, or ...(insert excuse here). Now our economy is a mess. This guy isn't fit to lead. He's too reactionary."
If you don't react quick enough, you're an idiot who either listens to his advisers too much or not enough, you're a murderer with blood on your hands, you're the reason for all bad things, you're not fit to lead because (insert accusation here).
There is no happy ending for anyone here. You will always be second-guessed while you're acting, and judged after the fact by everyone wearing 20/20 hindsight glasses.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 02:21:37 PM
It doesn't matter that you're right. What matters is what actually happened and what cost people's lives.
Exactly. All that shows are how Trump's obsession with his media coverage can cost lives.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 02:46:11 PM
I think it was a no-win for Trump (or any leader).
If you take extreme measures right away and minimize the death toll, you over-reacted. "We would have beaten this thing anyway because our healthcare system, or (insert other country) only got it bad because they did x wrong, or ...(insert excuse here). Now our economy is a mess. This guy isn't fit to lead. He's too reactionary."
If you don't react quick enough, you're an idiot who either listens to his advisers too much or not enough, you're a murderer with blood on your hands, you're the reason for all bad things, you're not fit to lead because (insert accusation here).
There is no happy ending for anyone here. You will always be second-guessed while you're acting, and judged after the fact by everyone wearing 20/20 hindsight glasses.
Right, which is why it helps to have a leader that cares more about keeping people alive than good approval ratings. Alas, such people are hard to come by.
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 02:52:44 PM
Right, which is why it helps to have a leader that cares more about keeping people alive than good approval ratings. Alas, such people are hard to come by.Conversely, it would help to have a media that cares more about keeping people alive than ratings and political agendas. Alas, such people are hard to come by.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
Right, which is why it helps to have a leader that cares more about keeping people alive than good approval ratings. Alas, such people are hard to come by.
Which is why I'm still waiting for an answer to this...
Can anyone show me a politician who has handled this properly, in a way that didn't cost any lives? I don't know why we keep pointing fingers, as if anyone else did it (or is doing it) right.
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 03:50:22 PM
&feature=youtu.be
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 04:05:57 PM
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on.Probably because he decided to take these guys seriously for once
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUhN5aIWkAATlag?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 04:20:05 PM
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.&feature=youtu.be
This NYTimes piece listing stages of conservative coverage of the virus is a perfect illustration of the lack of self-awareness from MSM on their own awful coverage.https://t.co/DcL2sIeQ75
— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) April 2, 2020
It was only right wingers who got things wrong.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.
This is #Fakenews fed by those who like knocking Fox. Like everywhere else, it depended on each individual host. Some were serious about it from the get-go. Others, of course, were dismissive.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/10836822-181/fox-news-host-tucker-carlson
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/greg-gutfeld-demands-retraction-after-reporter-claims-the-five-didnt-take-coronavirus-seriously
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.&feature=youtu.be
&feature=youtu.be
I think the truth is pretty much out there if you just look back at the official announcements coming out for the past 2 months. Digging deeper won't be pretty though.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 04:35:44 PM
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.&feature=youtu.be
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 04:39:21 PM
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.As my friend Chaim Moscowitz used to say, "ding ding ding"
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 04:41:27 PM
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.Some are trying to rewrite history. Not going to let that happen. Listen to Trumps own words. I guess they can claim he didn't say that just like Trump did when the reporter read his exact quote and he called it fake news.
Post by: AsherO on April 02, 2020, 04:42:20 PM
As my friend Chaim Moscowitz used to say, "ding ding ding"
CM had friends?
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 02, 2020, 04:43:43 PM
CM had friends?Friends, slaves, it's all the same.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 04:50:13 PM
Some are trying to rewrite history. Not going to let that happen. Listen to Trumps own words. I guess they can claim he didn't say that just like Trump did when the reporter read his exact quote and he called it fake news.I don't know what you are referring to with the reporter, but context matters.
Among those trying to re-write history is YOU! You are making it a Fox issue and that is simply a LIE as shown above.
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 04:54:21 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-related-fema-docs-show-shortage-of-medical-supplies-requested-by-states/ar-BB125qAl?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 05:03:40 PM
I don't know what you are referring to with the reporter, but context matters.He's probably talking about that thing a few days ago (maybe last week?) where that CNN reporter accused Trump of something, then read his full quote proving that Trump actually said the opposite of what he accused him of.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 05:07:48 PM
He's probably talking about that thing a few days ago (maybe last week?) where that CNN reporter accused Trump of something, then read his full quote proving that Trump actually said the opposite of what he accused him of.Ahh makes sense.
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 05:10:57 PM
Um, isn't that the most important question here?
The only real problem here is if the CDC came to Trump and said "this is gonna be bad, we need to do xyz to prepare" and he told them to stand down.
I like how he put it:
New Rule: If you are criticizing the President's timing of decisions, you have to produce a witness who was in the room and watched him ignoring advice from a consensus of experts.
— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) April 2, 2020
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 05:20:15 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 05:26:05 PM
Completely incompetent in a time of crisis. They can't even get a simple thing like masks right.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp)
Quote
But Adams on Wednesday said that the administration was rethinking its guidance. "We've asked the CDC to take another look at whether or not having more people wear masks will prevent transmission of the disease to other people," Adams said on ABC's "Good Morning America."I assume your problem here is that the administration should just trust that the CDC has been right and should not have them reexamine whether their recommendations until now have been correct?
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 05:32:47 PM
Completely incompetent in a time of crisis. They can't even get a simple thing like masks right.
Pause. Again, I ask you: who has been doing it better? Show me a politician responsible for anything during this crisis, anywhere in the world, and I will show you incompetence.
I don't like the man. He's vile. But this is not on him. Could he have done better? 100%. But break down what he has said vs the CDC, WHO, and other world leaders, and you'll find them all guilty of the same things.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 05:37:32 PM
Completely incompetent in a time of crisis. They can't even get a simple thing like masks right.Which one do want him to do? Listen to experts or not?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 05:42:52 PM
Pause. Again, I ask you: who has been doing it better? Show me a politician responsible for anything during this crisis, anywhere in the world, and I will show you incompetence.It seems your yard stick is what other countries are doing. Other countries have done a better job than us. You are not aware of this.
I don't like the man. He's vile. But this is not on him. Could he have done better? 100%. But break down what he has said vs the CDC, WHO, and other world leaders, and you'll find them all guilty of the same things.
States have enacted measures before the administration has. You are not aware of this.
Any past president would have listen to their experts and not FOX news talking heads.
What expert in the WH advised Trump we could put the nation back to work on Easter or was this all him? No past president would have made such a reckless statement.
This is the thread for blunders. I also started a thread for things he did right.
But officer they are speeding to is no defense. Not only is it not a defense but is an admission of failure.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 05:43:51 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
For the love of G-d, give me a name!!Country - South Korea
State - Newsom
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 06:52:06 PM
State - NewsomIn what way?
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 09:51:47 PM
Country - South Korea
State - Newsom
Full disclosure: I didn't know enough details of either South Korea or California's response, so I did some quick research. This is was I found. (Cue SVU's "dun-dun")
Let's start with South Korea. It's a country roughly the size of Pennsylvania, surrounded by water on 3 sides, and a closed, militarized border with North Korea on the fourth. The entire country has 3 international airports. It has a national government with complete control over the entire country, including any provincial or local governments. There is a zero-tolerance policy for violating the 2 week self-isolation rule, with punishments of up to 1 year in prison, fines of 10 million won, and deportation for foreign passport holders. In the beginning, South Korea controlled the potential spread of COVID-19 by using high-tech resources like tracking the use of credit cards and checking CCTV footage of confirmed patients. It is common for offices, hotels, and other large buildings to use thermal image cameras in order to identify people with fevers. Oh, and their president initially ignored the Korean Medical Association's request to ban travelers, first from Hubei Province, and then from all of China.
Conclusion: They definitely handled this better than most, but not without their follies. They are also playing by a very different set of rules. I don't know much about you, but I know enough to safely assume you're not ok with the government checking out the spending habits of the goy who turns on your faucet. There's not much to learn here that can be applied to the USA, regardless of who is in office.
California issued a state of emergency on March 4th. On March 12th, Newsom banned gatherings of more than 250 people, and said health experts advised that smaller gathering could be held if organizers implemented social distancing of 6 feet (sounds super realistic). On March 19th, Newsom issued a stay-at-home order, but said that he doesn’t believe that law enforcement actions are required to convince Californians to follow the order. “People will self-regulate their behavior, they’ll begin to adjust and adapt,” he said. “We will have social pressure that will encourage people to do the right thing.” "Noted" law professor Noah Feldman (of impeachment inquiry fame) lambasted Newsom's order in an opinion piece for Bloomberg, saying, "The order, as it stands, is incoherent at best and outrageous at worst." It's enforcement has been widely panned by the media, as beaches, parks, and other public areas have been saturated with high volumes of people. As of April 2nd, California has a backlog of 64% of tests pending, with people waiting up to 12 days for results. They currently have as many cases as Canada and Austria, with slightly higher death rates (2.2% vs 1.4-1.5%). (If I was media, I would have written that as "death rates 40-55% higher!") It should be noted that Governor Newsom twice praised President Trump for his handling of the virus; once with regards to the cruise ships, and another regarding emergency funds. Newsom said, “He said everything that I could have hoped for. Every single thing he said they followed through on.”
Conclusion: I'm not sure what you see here...
My point stands.
ETA: Newsom said yesterday that he sees the pandemic as an opportunity to reshape government to shift towards a new, progressive agenda. Yep, a real role model.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-newsom-coronavirus-opportunity-progressive-agenda
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 11:01:26 PM
My point stands.You just spun it into what you wanted. You ask to name one and I did. The point is SK has done a better job than the US.
We are on the same trajectory as Italy which has failed.
They are talking about 100k to 240k deaths and you act like no one could do better.
This is the same logic that got us this idiot in the first. Just listen to him speak. He is clueless with what is going on. He claimed today that a scarf is as good or better than a mask. How can you possibly think anyone with a once of common sense could not do better.
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 11:04:58 PM
Post by: hvaces42 on April 02, 2020, 11:06:26 PM
Why isn't the whole nation on lockdown? How many must die before people wake up?Because that is reserved to the states...by the Constitution. Now you're going to blame Trump for the Constitution? And 100k-240k sounds about right before we wake up that Dr. Fauci knows what he's talking about and this nation reaps what it sows...idiots who cant follow simple instructions.
Post by: aygart on April 02, 2020, 11:13:02 PM
Why isn't the whole nation on lockdown? How many must die before people wake up?Because
More like after hearing the governors say he never consulted them and a quarantine was illegal.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 11:13:14 PM
You just spun it into what you wanted. You ask to name one and I did. The point is SK has done a better job than the US.
We are on the same trajectory as Italy which has failed.
They are talking about 100k to 240k deaths and you act like no one could do better.
This is the same logic that got us this idiot in the first. Just listen to him speak. He is clueless with what is going on. He claimed today that a scarf is as good or better than a mask. How can you possibly think anyone with a once of common sense could not do better.
For the record, I think that projection is low, which should underscore how serious I think this is. That being said, you gave me a virtual island with powers over their people that cannot be enacted here, both legally and realistically. Are you suggesting that having anyone else as president would allow us to enforce South Korea's measures?
Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 11:27:28 PM
For the record, I think that projection is low, which should underscore how serious I think this is. That being said, you gave me a virtual island with powers over their people that cannot be enacted here, both legally and realistically. Are you suggesting that having anyone else as president would allow us to enforce South Korea's measures?Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?
Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?I don't care about anyone else. If the rest of the world is a bunch of morons do we have to be one to? >:(
Don't know how many times I said this but it is drip drip drip. Get a plan together and execute it.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?I don't care about anyone else. If the rest of the world is a bunch of morons do we have to be one to? >:(
Don't know how many times I said this but it is drip drip drip. Get a plan together and execute it.
If a part goes wrong on your machine, you have a faulty part. If the same part is broken on all the machines, maybe it's not about your particular part?
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 11:38:19 PM
If a part goes wrong on your machine, you have a faulty part. If the same part is broken on all the machines, maybe it's not about your particular part?Then get the part from Israel, Belgium, South Korea, Turkey, Russia or many other countries.
1k people die in one day and you claim no one can do better than an idiot who claimed 15 would 0.
Post by: Dan on April 02, 2020, 11:45:01 PM
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.I think anyone paying attention to what @yuneeq was saying knew this was the time they were right.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 11:46:23 PM
Then get the part from Israel, Belgium, South Korea, Turkey, Russia or many other countries.
1k people die in one day and you claim no one can do better than an idiot who claimed 15 would 0.
You want Israel? The man literally flew the infection into his country by the thousands and refused to let his minister quarantine them. Watch the numbers in Israel for the next 2 weeks.
You want Belgium? Their covid mortality rate is 6.5%.
You want South Korea? We've gone over this before...
You want Russia? Putin? Really?
Turkey? Edrogen? You gotta be kidding me...
Come on, give me some more!
Post by: CountValentine on April 02, 2020, 11:54:46 PM
You want Israel? The man literally flew the infection into his country by the thousands and refused to let his minister quarantine them. Watch the numbers in Israel for the next 2 weeks.It does not mater who it is you will just spin it the way you want.
You want Belgium? Their covid mortality rate is 6.5%.
You want South Korea? We've gone over this before...
You want Russia? Putin? Really?
Turkey? Edrogen? You gotta be kidding me...
Come one, give me some more!
Look how you just spun Israel.
Post by: Lurker on April 02, 2020, 11:57:03 PM
It does not mater who it is you will just spin it the way you want.
Look how you just spun Israel.
Try me. I didn't spin Israel, read the other threads. I've been saying the same thing about Israel all week. Go to www.timesofisrael.com. I don't need to spin anything.
Post by: whYME on April 02, 2020, 11:59:13 PM
I think anyone paying attention to what @yuneeq was saying knew this was the time they were right.But again, that brings us back to the question of did the CDC or FEMA or whoever want to act and he told them not to? Or are we just saying that he should've been the one to realize it's a big deal.
My memory seems to be failing me, but I seem to think there was something pretty big going on Washington during this period which would've kept Trump preoccupied and he probably didn't have enough time to keep up with @yuneeq's posts on DDF :P
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 12:03:20 AM
Try me. I didn't spin Israel, read the other threads. I've been saying the same thing about Israel all week. Go to www.timesofisrael.com. I don't need to spin anything.
You can start here:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-nixing-plan-netanyahu-now-says-all-arrivals-must-quarantine-in-hotels/
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 12:06:15 AM
Try me. I didn't spin Israel, read the other threads. I've been saying the same thing about Israel all week. Go to www.timesofisrael.com. I don't need to spin anything.Doesn't Israel have a .5% fatality rate? The same says as Australia?
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 12:17:32 AM
Doesn't Israel have a .5% fatality rate? The same says as Australia?
Israel had 10 fatalities today. Their mortality rate is rising, and the hospitals are petrified about what will happen when the cases start rolling in from Bnei Brak.
Australia has handled this exceptionally well. They started screening passengers from China on Jan 23, which means they started taking this seriously before the WHO. I can only speculate, but it appears the high volume of travel they get from China had them on alert before (most) anyone else.
My point isn't that Trump is doing a good job; it's that there aren't really too many examples of other people or countries doing it better. There are few blunders that were made exclusively by this administration. To me, that takes a lot of bite out of the postmortem dissection that is coming on how they handled this.
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 12:22:27 AM
Israel had 10 fatalities today. Their mortality rate is rising, and the hospitals are petrified about what will happen when the cases start rolling in from Bnei Brak.Leave it be you are not changing his mind.
Australia has handled this exceptionally well. They started screening passengers from China on Jan 23, which means they started taking this seriously before the WHO. I can only speculate, but it appears the high volume of travel they get from China had them on alert before (most) anyone else.
My point isn't that Trump is doing a good job; it's that there aren't really too many examples of other people or countries doing it better. There are few blunders that were made exclusively by this administration. To me, that takes a lot of bite out of the postmortem dissection that is coming on how they handled this.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 12:30:30 AM
My point isn't that Trump is doing a good job; it's that there aren't really too many examples of other people or countries doing it better. There are few blunders that were made exclusively by this administration. To me, that takes a lot of bite out of the postmortem dissection that is coming on how they handled this.Day after day he made stupid ignorant comments that showed he did not take this serious and wasted precious time. That alone is a major blunder that in the end will cost lives.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 12:31:43 AM
&feature=youtu.be
Post by: S209 on April 03, 2020, 02:15:58 AM
It case anyone forgot how time was wasted.&feature=youtu.be
Hmm. I must have seen this somewhere before. :)
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:03:01 AM
Hmm. I must have seen this somewhere before. :)...and you will keep seeing it anytime some idiot tries to rewrite history. FACTS MATTER!!! ;)
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 09:06:41 AM
...and you will keep seeing it anytime some idiot tries to rewrite history. FACTS MATTER!!! ;)
No rewriting history. The man is an idiot. Doesn't change the FACT that he's doing no worse than the rest of the world.
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 09:09:14 AM
Australia has handled this exceptionally well. They started screening passengers from China on Jan 23, which means they started taking this seriously before the WHO. I can only speculate, but it appears the high volume of travel they get from China had them on alert before (most) anyone else.
OT, but I wonder how much Australia's wildfires played a part in their low numbers. I don't know the stats, but it's possible they had many fewer people leaving or coming from other countries due to the fires.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:13:33 AM
OT, but I wonder how much Australia's wildfires played a part in their low numbers. I don't know the stats, but it's possible they had many fewer people leaving or coming from other countries due to the fires....and he is back! :)
Lets find every feeble excuse why another country or state is not doing a better job than Trump.
We need market updates.
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 09:17:37 AM
...and he is back! :)
Lets find every feeble excuse why another country or state is not doing a better job than Trump.
We need market updates.
You're just like Trump... ignore the facts, and keep banging that drum! 15 becomes 0 is your Build the Wall. Are you gonna give me a slightly insulting nickname?
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:27:13 AM
You're just like Trump... ignore the facts, and keep banging that drum! 15 becomes 0 is your Build the Wall. Are you gonna give me a slightly insulting nickname?The fact is they had forest fires. It is not a fact that is the reason the numbers are lower. Yes one of us is like Trump, it just isn't me. :P
Fact: SK is doing a better job than the US.
Fact: Trump believed 15 would be 0. This is extremely important because it shows the mindset of the person. That is how he reacted to the situation.
Fact: Trump is still building the wall, wasting resources will this crisis is going on.
Let me ask you a question. Why are the R's trying so hard to blame everyone else for Trumps inaction?
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 09:27:22 AM
...and he is back! :)Just the facts.....
Lets find every feeble excuse why another country or state is not doing a better job than Trump.
We need market updates.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:29:00 AM
&feature=youtu.be
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 09:35:56 AM
The fact is they had forest fires. It is not a fact that is the reason the numbers are lower. Yes one of us is like Trump, it just isn't me. :PThis is written about this post
OT, but I wonder how much Australia's wildfires played a part in their low numbers. I don't know the stats, but it's possible they had many fewer people leaving or coming from other countries due to the fires.Note:
1. @Lurker starts of by saying that this is OT yet @CountValentine describes this as being about Trump.
2. THe next words are "I wonder how much....." and then "I don't know the stats but its possible....." to which @CountValentine replies how it is not a fact impying that this makes @Lurker like Trump.
@CountValentine you are about as like Trump as you can possibly be. Both of you are OCD over Trump.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:45:04 AM
Let me ask you a question. Why are the R's trying so hard to blame everyone else for Trumps inaction?Do you need help with this one? @Lurker
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 09:48:49 AM
Do you need help with this one? @Lurker
Nope, very simple. The answer is because they are politicians. It's the same reason D's keep trying to make this Trump's fault. It's what they do.
Here's my challenge to you: name me a US politician you think would be doing a better job than Trump *based on actual work they are doing now to combat covid-19*. I'm not partisan, can be either D or R.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 09:51:23 AM
Nope, very simple. The answer is because they are politicians. It's the same reason D's keep trying to make this Trump's fault. It's what they do.You missed the point. If his inaction didn't make the situation worse why are they trying to blame everyone else for it?
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 09:53:48 AM
You missed the point. If his inaction didn't make the situation worse why are they trying to blame everyone else for it?
No, you missed the point. Who was acting that Trump's inaction sticks out?
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 09:55:01 AM
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 09:56:09 AM
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 10:09:17 AM
No, you missed the point. Who was acting that Trump's inaction sticks out?So no states took action before Trump did? Trying to rewrite history again?
Wish we could get that market update.
Post by: yuneeq on April 03, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
Anyone that is blaming **anyone** for them not realizing how bad this would be should first let us all know if they sold their stocks in February before the markets tanked. Did they stock up then on items like masks etc. Since it was so clear that this would happen what did they do to prepare?
Looks like I get a free pass :D
But regarding your point, the politicians that are privy to much better data than average American, should be blamed for their inaction. They told everyone that everything is fine, so it is ok to point fingers.
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 10:16:29 AM
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 03, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
Speaking of politicians and their blunders, can anyone find that clip that was posted about the Netherlands? The one that hasn't aged well about their superior plan with herd immunity?Same for England
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 10:20:09 AM
Looks like I get a free pass :DThat becomes a question of what the experts were saying. What was the CDC saying? What was WHO saying? Etc? Data is always based on its interpretation.
But regarding your point, the politicians that are privy to much better data than average American, should be blamed for their inaction. They told everyone that everything is fine, so it is ok to point fingers.
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 10:22:04 AM
Speaking of politicians and their blunders, can anyone find that clip that was posted about the Netherlands? The one that hasn't aged well about their superior plan with herd immunity?...but officer he was speeding to?
Post by: aygart on April 03, 2020, 10:22:55 AM
If Trump had never mentioned it in the first place it would have been widely accepted as treatment by now. Trumps big mouth has cost people their lives!
— Steve (@Stvrob_63) April 2, 2020
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 10:24:42 AM
If you feel any of the blunders was not a blunder then state why. Saying someone else made the same blunder is just admitting it was a blunder.
Post by: Lurker on April 03, 2020, 10:31:04 AM
I love all this slight on hand and misdirection. Read the title of the thread.
If you feel any of the blunders was not a blunder then state why. Saying someone else made the same blunder is just admitting it was a blunder.
Question: if the blunder was listening to the WHO or CDC, is that an administration blunder? What about listening to conventional wisdom? I just want to make sure I understand what you consider an "administration blunder" so I don't miss any.
Btw, what flavor is your Kool-Aid? Never Trump Naranja?
Post by: CountValentine on April 03, 2020, 10:36:29 AM
Question: if the blunder was listening to the WHO or CDC, is that an administration blunder? What about listening to conventional wisdom? I just want to make sure I understand what you consider an "administration blunder" so I don't miss any.You assume he is listening to someone. That is his major blunder since he took office. He doesn't listen to anyone.
Btw, what flavor is your Kool-Aid? Never Trump Naranja?
If you want to dispute any of the blunders listed go right ahead but don't use the but he was speeding to defense.
OT: You are a smart person so try and come up with your on catch phrases. :)
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 05:33:03 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-us-was-beset-by-denial-and-dysfunction-as-the-coronavirus-raged/ar-BB12akzb?li=BBnbcA1
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 07:12:09 PM
Eight states still have no stay at home orders. Anyone want to guess what party the governors of all eight states are from? Blunder after blunder!!!
Post by: JMHO on April 04, 2020, 08:54:14 PM
Trump refuses to enact a national stay at home order. Blunder after blunder!!!Oh please. North Dakota has 186 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? New Mexico has 495 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? Let each state do what is best for their state...
Eight states still have no stay at home orders. Anyone want to guess what party the governors of all eight states are from? Blunder after blunder!!!
Post by: chevron on April 04, 2020, 08:58:03 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 09:00:40 PM
Oh please. North Dakota has 186 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? New Mexico has 495 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? Let each state do what is best for their state...Didn't NY have 186 cases at one point? How about New Jersey, didn't they have 495 cases at one point?
How ignorant and clueless some still are. You think all being run by R governors is just a coincidence? Do they need to see deaths that Trump sees to finally takes this serious after months of inaction? How much blood they going to have on their hands just like Trump?
Speaking about ignorant and stupid just look what this moron said: When asked about data showing states' need for equipment, Kushner said, "The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be our stockpile. It's not supposed to be states' stockpiles that they then use."
Post by: JMHO on April 04, 2020, 09:05:53 PM
Didn't NY have 186 cases at one point? How about New Jersey, didn't they have 495 cases at one point?So why not lock down the entire country of 325M+ when there was one case?
How ignorant and clueless some still are. You think all being run by R governors is just a coincidence? Do they need to see deaths that Trump sees to finally takes this serious after months of inaction? How much blood they going to have on their hands just like Trump?
Speaking about ignorant and stupid just look what this moron said: When asked about data showing states' need for equipment, Kushner said, "The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be our stockpile. It's not supposed to be states' stockpiles that they then use."
The fact is there are states and regions that do not have the density of NY/NJ and will never have as many cases. There needs to be a balance. The Feds cannot impose one standard across so many different states and regions.
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 09:20:47 PM
So why not lock down the entire country of 325M+ when there was one case?The best way to combat this is on a national level. The eight R governors think they know more than the rest of the country and more importantly think they know more than the experts. Where do you think they get that from?
The fact is there are states and regions that do not have the density of NY/NJ and will never have as many cases. There needs to be a balance. The Feds cannot impose one standard across so many different states and regions.
Now a national lockdown would be challenged in the courts. By the time it gets decided hopefully this will be under control.
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 09:37:18 PM
Oh please. North Dakota has 186 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? New Mexico has 495 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted?Here is the two states you mention. Do their graphs look familiar?
https://bing.com/covid/local/newmexico_unitedstates?form=msntrk
https://bing.com/covid/local/northdakota_unitedstates?form=msntrk
Post by: aygart on April 04, 2020, 09:51:02 PM
The best way to combat this is on a national level. The eight R governors think they know more than the rest of the country and more importantly think they know more than the experts. Where do you think they get that from?There is a legal ruling called a stay. Not sure if you heard of it.
Now a national lockdown would be challenged in the courts. By the time it gets decided hopefully this will be under control.
Post by: ari3 on April 04, 2020, 10:12:03 PM
The best way to combat this is on a national level. The eight R governors think they know more than the rest of the country and more importantly think they know more than the experts. Where do you think they get that from?A federal lockdown is probably unconstitutional. It would immediately be challenged in court and implementation would be frozen pending the outcome of the lawsuit.
Now a national lockdown would be challenged in the courts. By the time it gets decided hopefully this will be under control.
Post by: ari3 on April 04, 2020, 10:16:59 PM
Didn't NY have 186 cases at one point? How about New Jersey, didn't they have 495 cases at one point?Gov of NM is a Democrat.
How ignorant and clueless some still are. You think all being run by R governors is just a coincidence? Do they need to see deaths that Trump sees to finally takes this serious after months of inaction? How much blood they going to have on their hands just like Trump?
Speaking about ignorant and stupid just look what this moron said: When asked about data showing states' need for equipment, Kushner said, "The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be our stockpile. It's not supposed to be states' stockpiles that they then use."
The states without a lockdown are mostly rural hence there is much less spread.
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 10:18:03 PM
A federal lockdown is probably unconstitutional. It would immediately be challenged in court and implementation would be frozen pending the outcome of the lawsuit.When there is a national emergency/crisis the courts will probably side with the government.
The debate I seen yesterday was about CDC doing it under a national health emergency. They have the authority to quarantine but doing it for the whole nation is another story.
Post by: CountValentine on April 04, 2020, 10:23:09 PM
Gov of NM is a Democrat.NM is not one of the eight states.
The states without a lockdown are mostly rural hence there is much less spread.
There are many rural states that do have stay at home in place.
Post by: aygart on April 04, 2020, 10:23:41 PM
Gov of NM is a Democrat.#facts
The states without a lockdown are mostly rural hence there is much less spread.
Post by: Jeremiah on April 05, 2020, 08:49:59 AM
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:08:42 AM
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:16:19 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/alabama-joins-states-under-coronavirus-stay-at-home-order/ar-BB12bcDX?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 09:31:24 AM
Bill de Blasio Rejects Claim U.S. Knew Asymptomatic People Could Spread the Virus: Only Learned That 'In the Last 48 Hours’ https://t.co/ohj74tr594 via @mediaite
— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) April 4, 2020
We are being led by idiots. It's bipartisan idiocy. Just stop with D 'n R stuff and let it die.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:42:41 AM
Speaking of stupid RsMaybe those who are using other idiots to try and explain all the blunders the WH made should stop?
We are being led by idiots. It's bipartisan idiocy. Just stop with D 'n R stuff and let it die.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
Maybe those who are using other idiots to try and explain all the blunders the WH made should stop?Maybe those who are blaming party affiliation for blunders should stop. I've literally posted on this forum that I believe Trump will come out of this with blood on his hands. Your obsession, however, is almost certainly doing *you* harm. Relax, drink something good, and talk about something else.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:54:25 AM
Maybe those who are blaming party affiliation for blunders should stop. I've literally posted on this forum that I believe Trump will come out of this with blood on his hands. Your obsession, however, is almost certainly doing *you* harm. Relax, drink something good, and talk about something else.I am blaming Trump for the WH blunders. You really think I care if he is a R or D?
I find it odd you giving me advice about obsessions doing more harm than good.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 09:57:39 AM
I am blaming Trump for the WH blunders. You really think I care if he is a R or D?There's an old chassidic expression that usually people speak about themselves when their true intent is to speak about others. At a farbrengen (do you know that one?), one speaks to others, but is referring to oneself. Today is a farbrengen day.
I find it odd you giving me advice about obsessions doing more harm than good.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:59:44 AM
At a farbrengen (do you know that one?), one speaks to others, but is referring to oneself. Today is a farbrengen day.Yes I know that one and now I understand your comment.
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 10:22:21 AM
I am blaming Trump for the WH blunders. You really think I care if he is a R or D?
I find it odd you giving me advice about obsessions doing more harm than good.
Why are the holdouts R's?
Seems that is ALL you care about.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 05, 2020, 10:35:26 AM
Seems that is ALL you care about.
I mean, my comment came immidiately after his mention of R holdouts. Then came the "I'm talking about the WH" response, and around and round we go.
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2020, 10:39:37 AM
His advisors did an even worse job preparing him.
His opposition did an even worse job than all of them in opposing travel bans and logical ways to slow the spread. Had we shut everything down early and ordered companies to make supplies then we'd be in a very different place.
The CDC did an even worse job in opposing masks until Friday. How long will it take until they're mandatory like in 1918?
Post by: shmooz on April 05, 2020, 10:43:07 AM
Trump did a terrible job preparing us for this crisis.
His advisors did an even worse job preparing him.
His opposition did an even worse job than all of them in opposing travel bans and logical ways to slow the spread. Had we shut everything down early and ordered companies to make supplies then we'd be in a very different place.
The CDC did an even worse job in opposing masks until Friday. How long will it take until they're mandatory like in 1918?
Well said, enough blame for everyone to go around
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 10:44:01 AM
I mean, my comment came immidiately after his mention of R holdouts. Then came the "I'm talking about the WH" response, and around and round we go.You want to dispute the blunders listed go right ahead. We will leave all other R's and D's out of it.
The only defense in this thread is to drag them into it. ::)
Post by: Lurker on April 05, 2020, 10:45:23 AM
No one claims Trump hasn't made blunders. In fact, to call them just blunders and not colossal f ups does a disservice to the gravity of his errors. The thing is, there are no winners here. Not from the Democrats, the Republicans, or any politician in any country. To keep pointing at Trump's f ups as if he alone is the cause of pain, suffering, and death, or even as if he is more to blame than any of the countless other leaders and doctors who downplayed this over these last few months, shows an unhealthy obsession with one man's stupidity and an unrealistic worldview.
In answer to the question posed as the topic to this thread, yes, the truth will come out about every single f up. It will also come out about every other country on earth, as well as organizations tasked with keeping us safe, such as the WHO and their ilk. In the big picture, since we have no one else to point to, to ask, "Why didn't you handle it like they did," this administration will largely get a pass. Will we blame them? Yes. Will we be pissed? Yes. Will we elect someone else to run things because we feel they would have handled it better? Maybe, but I don't think so.
I think the biggest realization to come out of all this, will be as it says in Tehillim, chapter 146. "Do not trust in princes, in the son of man, who has no salvation. His spirit leaves, he returns to his soil; on that day, his thoughts are lost."
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 10:46:21 AM
His advisors did an even worse job preparing him.How do you know this? Was the travel ban Trumps idea or did he do it kicking and screaming? We know he loves to ban others from coming to the US unless it is Denmark.
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2020, 10:48:33 AM
How do you know this? Was the travel ban Trumps idea or did he do it kicking and screaming? We know he loves to ban others from coming to the US unless it is Denmark.I'm talking about convincing him that COVID-19 would be a disaster and was not the flu.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 10:50:44 AM
This is going to be my last post on this subject, primarily because I enjoy reading @CountValentine's post on other threads, and I don't want this thread to ruin that.No need to worry about that.
I think the biggest realization to come out of all this, will be as it says in Tehillim, chapter 146. "Do not trust in princes, in the son of man, who has no salvation. His spirit leaves, he returns to his soil; on that day, his thoughts are lost."You were on a roll but you just had to add this? ;)
Post by: SamCan on April 05, 2020, 10:51:15 AM
How do you know this? Was the travel ban Trumps idea or did he do it kicking and screaming? We know he loves to ban others from coming to the US unless it is Denmark.
Canada put in place a ban against all non citizens, they are run by the left leaning liberals. Maybe banning people to come in isn’t politics, it’s smart.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 10:53:32 AM
I'm talking about convincing him that COVID-19 would be a disaster and was not the flu.They can only do so much. I thought they had him convinced then at yesterdays news conference he went off the rails again.
In the end it will come out what he was told and when they told him.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 10:56:06 AM
Canada put in place a ban against all non citizens, they are run by the left leaning liberals. Maybe banning people to come in isn’t politics, it’s smart.You need to look at persons history and not just isolated incidents.
I already gave him credit for the ban (without knowing if it was his idea) so you are barking up the wrong tree.
Post by: skyguy918 on April 05, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
It will also come out about every other country on earth, as well as organizations tasked with keeping us safe, such as the WHO and their ilk.I'm just quoting this as the most recent easily accessible example of this type of comment, not singling out you in particular.
This idea that everyone in every country did a terrible job and therefore you can't single out specific leaders is rubbish. Obviously there are some countries that did a better job than others. That's based on the numbers, that's based on differing situations in different countries (in terms of the circumstances they had to deal with), etc. You're going to tell me SK's leaders didn't do a good job? You're telling me Taiwan and HK didn't do a good job? What about Israel? Not every country and every leader can be put in the same basket. And the fact that others did a bad job is not in any way, shape or form a defense for those that did a bad job. You want to sit there divvying up the blame - go right ahead. But remember that we're supposed to be a country where the buck stops here - on the desk of the head honcho.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 01:26:42 PM
And the fact that others did a bad job is not in any way, shape or form a defense for those that did a bad job.Hopefully it might sink in coming from you. I tried 100 different ways.
Post by: chevron on April 05, 2020, 03:42:38 PM
I think @CountValentine and I agree pretty much that ;
The administration was at fault but there's also the issue that China is a bad player and we rely on China for too much manufacturing.
The USA is supposedly the most powerful nation on earth .
We relied too much on foreign oil, we need to have these resources at home.
Post by: chevron on April 05, 2020, 03:50:40 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:37:40 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/premier-infuriated-by-trump-says-canada-helped-us-amid-9-11/ar-BB12c5MB?li=BBnbfcL
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 09:52:21 PM
Is this a blunder?Utterly ridiculous. Completely incomparable. We would have helped them in that situation too, but when we both have a tower collapsing, well, put on your oxygen mask before assisting other passengers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/premier-infuriated-by-trump-says-canada-helped-us-amid-9-11/ar-BB12c5MB?li=BBnbfcL
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 09:59:23 PM
Utterly ridiculous. Completely incomparable. We would have helped them in that situation too, but when we both have a tower collapsing, well, put on your oxygen mask before assisting other passengers.I agree not comparable but should we stop medical supplies. IIRC at a press conference Trump claimed he didn't stop supplies going to Europe but could have.
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 10:09:50 PM
I agree not comparable but should we stop medical supplies. IIRC at a press conference Trump claimed he didn't stop supplies going to Europe but could have.We don’t have enough in this country, why should we ship any out? If we’re sending to Europe I don’t understand that at all.
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2020, 10:12:30 PM
We don’t have enough in this country, why should we ship any out?It is one of those tough decisions.
Post by: SamCan on April 05, 2020, 10:21:02 PM
This is just some nationalistic propaganda by the trump administration . Just like he tried to put US soldiers at the Canadian border last week for no good reason.
Post by: S209 on April 05, 2020, 10:41:35 PM
I’m a US citizen living in Canada, Trump should not stop them. Certain materials that are used to produce masks come from Canada and part of the Detroit medical staff live in Canada and cross the border daily. In a medical supplies border war no one wins.Huh? Canada is tougher on Americans coming in than America is on Canadians coming in to America right now
This is just some nationalistic propaganda by the trump administration . Just like he tried to put US soldiers at the Canadian border last week for no good reason.
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 10:47:33 PM
Post by: SamCan on April 05, 2020, 11:21:44 PM
Politically he can only lose by sending them out while we have a shortage.
Correct, but that’s all it is, political, not necessarily smart.
Post by: aygart on April 05, 2020, 11:35:24 PM
Correct, but that’s all it is, political, not necessarily smart.But he is a politician and politics is what matters most to him for better or worse.
Post by: yochiek93 on April 06, 2020, 05:15:20 AM
Correct, but that’s all it is, political, not necessarily smart.can you please explain how it's smart to send what is in short supply? I'm trying to understand your logic but I don't get it.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 09:30:49 AM
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 09:58:15 AM
Sort of surprised to the answers so far. No one feels that even when things are in short supply you should not show compassion?
We're the Titanic and we're going down without enough life boats. Do we send some life boats to the other ship that also might need them? We did this already once by selling masks for $2/pc in Feb, and there's not one person saying that was the right move in retrospect. If we send out life-saving equipment today, and it costs US lives tomorrow, it will be inexcusable.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:07:48 AM
We're the Titanic and we're going down without enough life boats. Do we send some life boats to the other ship that also might need them?Would you give your life vest to a child you did not know or was from a different country?
If we send out life-saving equipment today, and it costs US lives tomorrow, it will be inexcusable.Should states not send ventilators to NYC because they might need them later on?
I am not saying you are wrong just not the answers I expected especially on this forum.
Post by: zh cohen on April 06, 2020, 10:19:48 AM
Sort of surprised to the answers so far. No one feels that even when things are in short supply you should not show compassion?
Is it compassionate to take PPE away from Americans to send to Canadians? Why do they have more of a right to it than Drs and nurses in the US?
Should states not send ventilators to NYC because they might need them later on?
If it's only "might need them" then it would be wrong to hold it back from someone who actually does need. With PPE, everyone needs, so it does make sense to are for "our own" before helping others
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 10:21:06 AM
Would you give your life vest to a child you did not know or was from a different country? Should states not send ventilators to NYC because they might need them later on?
I am not saying you are wrong just not the answers I expected especially on this forum.
Let's start with the child example. We're not talking about children. We're talking adults to adults. Just because they're Canadian doesn't mean they're somehow less self-sufficient.
Regarding the answers you're seeing, the thread is about administration blunders. From a political perspective, the administration answers to the people of the US and is responsible for their well-being. They would be derelict in their duty if they sent vital equipment out of the country to the detriment of US lives.
Regarding states sending equipment to NYC, it depends on the details. Who owns the equipment? Is it the state? Is it private healthcare providers? Is it federally owned but on loan or stored in certain states? You also have certain states that are virtually guaranteed to not get hit nearly as hard as NY, both by virtue of population density and by the benefit of learning from NY's mistakes and taking extra precautions earlier.
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 10:25:47 AM
I am not saying you are wrong just not the answers I expected especially on this forum.This is very much the Jewish religious view.
Post by: JMHO on April 06, 2020, 10:27:48 AM
Let's start with the child example. We're not talking about children. We're talking adults to adults. Just because they're Canadian doesn't mean they're somehow less self-sufficient.Well said. Let's not twist this any more.
Regarding the answers you're seeing, the thread is about administration blunders. From a political perspective, the administration answers to the people of the US and is responsible for their well-being. They would be derelict in their duty if they sent vital equipment out of the country to the detriment of US lives.
Regarding states sending equipment to NYC, it depends on the details. Who owns the equipment? Is it the state? Is it private healthcare providers? Is it federally owned but on loan or stored in certain states? You also have certain states that are virtually guaranteed to not get hit nearly as hard as NY, both by virtue of population density and by the benefit of learning from NY's mistakes and taking extra precautions earlier.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:31:16 AM
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 10:33:33 AM
I never said this was a blunder by the administration. You learn by asking questions. Unfortunately I am saddened by what I just learned. Lets move on.You have one dose of medicine. You can save your parent or you can give it to a stranger in need. Either will die without it.
Who gets it?
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 10:34:39 AM
I never said this was a blunder by the administration. You learn by asking questions. Unfortunately I am saddened by what I just learned. Lets move on.
As a head of household, responsible for the wellbeing of your family, would you send out life saving equipment your family might need? What if you were virtually guaranteed to need it in the very near future?
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:36:36 AM
You have one dose of medicine. You can save your parent or you can give it to a stranger in need. Either will die without it.Your parent.
Who gets it?
You have food that will last you for a month. Your neighbors are starving. Do you share some of it with them?
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:38:04 AM
As a head of household, responsible for the wellbeing of your family, would you send out life saving equipment your family might need? What if you were virtually guaranteed to need it in the very near future?Yes with the belief I will find more when the time comes.
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 10:41:41 AM
Your parent.So this is semantics. No hospital in the country has this kind of excess PPE now. If they did then you would be correct.
You have food that will last you for a month. Your neighbors are starving. Do you share some of it with them?
My father works at the VA and other than a couple kind patients bringing in some N95s or him buying on ebay at 1000% markups, there are none to be found.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
So this is semantics.Your question was semantics also. I gave you a straight answer. I guess it was to much for me to expect the same in return.
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 10:45:35 AM
Your question was semantics also. I gave you a straight answer. I guess it was to much for me to expect the same in return.
If they did then you would be correct.
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
Yes with the belief I will find more when the time comes.What if the time is right now?
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 10:46:13 AM
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 10:47:49 AM
I think the difference in opinion here stems from two missing pieces of data: a) how soon will we need it ourselves, and b) how soon can we replace it?Exactly.
The US currently doesn't have enough to supply its own hospitals for one day. You don't give charity when you don't have food to feed your kids dinner tonight.
If we had a 30 day supply, then absolutely, give charity.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
I think the difference in opinion here stems from two missing pieces of data: a) how soon will we need it ourselves, and b) how soon can we replace it?The difference in opinion goes a lot deeper than that.
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 10:49:10 AM
The difference in opinion goes a lot deeper than that.Not that I'm seeing.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:49:31 AM
I guess we have a different opinion of a straight answer. :)
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 10:51:19 AM
The difference in opinion goes a lot deeper than that.I think you are mistaken. I think that the difference between Dan's analogy and yours pretty much sums it up. You were asking based on a hypothetical while everyone here answered based on the reality we are in.
You have one dose of medicine. You can save your parent or you can give it to a stranger in need. Either will die without it.
Who gets it?
Your parent.
You have food that will last you for a month. Your neighbors are starving. Do you share some of it with them?
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
Not that I'm seeing.We agree on that. We can continue this after I give a couple of my N95 masks to my neighbor who does not have any. ;)
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
We agree on that. We can continue this after I give a couple of my N95 masks to my neighbor who does not have any. ;)
How many do you have? How long will they last you?
Post by: chevron on April 06, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
This was me for 31 years... I actually had tears in my eyes reading this. Should I feel guilty for not being there? Tough question.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/05/youre-basically-right-next-nuclear-reactor/?arc404=true
He's 70, retired as top anesthesiologist In one of the countries the most respected hospitals.
He's an expert on malignent hypothermia.
he also has a heart condition and underlying asthma. Would he work ? He says with proper guaranteed ppe he might.
They are offering nurses 10k a week. Such outrageous sums because there's no gear.
Regardless of who started this I find that the deplorable that we, the greatest nation on earth are reliant on China.
Yet somehow it was racist to say America should bring the jobs home.
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 10:55:54 AM
I think you are mistaken. I think that the difference between Dan's analogy and yours pretty much sums it up. You were asking based on a hypothetical while everyone here answered based on the reality we are in.+1K
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 11:06:23 AM
How many do you have? How long will they last you?No need to go on with this. You all made your position loud and clear.
Post by: SamCan on April 06, 2020, 11:25:47 AM
People have to realize that we get from Canada certain medical materials, and there are some Canadian that work in US hospitals. Ontario Canada is closer to large cities such as Detroit and New York than many other areas in the US. With NY already in short supply of medical professionals why anger you neighbours when you might need them.
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 11:30:26 AM
There is a difference between Canada and other countries. Canada does not have that many people compared to the US, so they wouldn’t need such a large supply to make them happy.
People have to realize that we get from Canada certain medical materials, and there are some Canadian that work in US hospitals. Ontario Canada is closer to large cities such as Detroit and New York than many other areas in the US. With NY already in short supply of medical professionals why anger you neighbours when you might need them.
There are also many, many high-risk Canadians currently in the US. Do you know how many Canadian snowbirds there are that didn't go back because of the virus? Florida is full of them.
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 11:34:09 AM
There is a difference between Canada and other countries. Canada does not have that many people compared to the US, so they wouldn’t need such a large supply to make them happy.I don't really understnad how it can be expected that at the same time as we are scrambling to get masks for our own hospitals we should be sending what we have away.
People have to realize that we get from Canada certain medical materials, and there are some Canadian that work in US hospitals. Ontario Canada is closer to large cities such as Detroit and New York than many other areas in the US. With NY already in short supply of medical professionals why anger you neighbours when you might need them.
Post by: SamCan on April 06, 2020, 11:38:43 AM
I don't really understnad how it can be expected that at the same time as we are scrambling to get masks for our own hospitals we should be sending what we have away.
What happens when the Canadians become desperate and refuse to send any medical personal across the border, or threaten not to export any materials used for medical supplies. Was it worth it for masks?
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 11:50:32 AM
What happens when the Canadians become desperate and refuse to send any medical personal across the border, or threaten not to export any materials used for medical supplies. Was it worth it for masks?I can hear a case made for keeping Canadian medical personnel in Canada if they are needed there, but many will just stay in the US for the higher pay with private medicine which is why they work there in the first place.
As far as raw materials, that is simply a threat for leverage.
Post by: SamCan on April 06, 2020, 12:13:23 PM
I’m not sure why we want a dumb medical trade war in middle of all this.
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 12:17:15 PM
Trudea can declare an emergency of some sort and deny any medical personal from leaving Canada. That would cripple the Detroit medical system as many of them are Canadians, plus it would deny New York the possibility of Canadian medical professionals coming over to help. Trudeau would score political points for doing such a move in retaliation to the US ban on exports.The question is why it should be a trade war to not leave our medical staff who are currently being much more heavily affected than Canada to be exposed. Canada has MUCH fewer cases than the US. why should masks be sent to Canada to stockpile while workers here are inadequately protected? That someone would start talking trade war over it is like all of the hoarders and price gougers.
I’m not sure why we want a dumb medical trade war in middle of all this.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 12:52:54 PM
WH needs to stop messing around and issue a national stay-at-home order NOW!!!
I'm not disagreeing, but how would this be enforced?
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 12:54:07 PM
WH needs to stop messing around and issue a national stay-at-home order NOW!!!As seen in yesterday's roundup.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
I'm not disagreeing, but how would this be enforced?Issue it first and see the response.
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 02:50:28 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Post by: JMHO on April 06, 2020, 03:12:28 PM
WH needs to stop messing around and issue a national stay-at-home order NOW!!!Why? There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is not necessary.
Post by: yossig on April 06, 2020, 03:16:57 PM
Why? There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is still not necessary.FTFY
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 03:18:59 PM
Why? There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is not necessary.
If you think we can all agree, you haven't been paying attention.
Post by: JMHO on April 06, 2020, 03:24:21 PM
If you think we can all agree, you haven't been paying attention.Lol
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 03:42:13 PM
There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is not necessary.I think we can all agree you lost your mind. :)
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 04:05:26 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU7-Jv3X0AQvCfp?format=jpg&name=medium)In powerful show of defiance of #coronavirus scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC's Chinatown for ceremony ahead of annual #LunarNewYear parade. Chants of "be strong Wuhan!"
— Mark D. Levine (@MarkLevineNYC) February 9, 2020
If you are staying away, you are missing out! pic.twitter.com/NGBUAfHWpl
Effect:
Invalid Tweet ID(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU76UTsXQAQB38E?format=jpg&name=medium)
But lets not leave this one out
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU76UTvXgAEI22s?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 05:50:24 PM
BLUNDER after BLUNDER!!!
Trump calling this the Chinese virus.
Pence claiming every day "the risk to the American people remains very low".
Post by: 12HRS on April 06, 2020, 05:54:24 PM
Trump calling this the Chinese virus.
why should we care about this of all things?
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 05:56:08 PM
why should we care about this of all things?Maybe because there was an uptick in violence against Asians right after this?
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 05:59:18 PM
From the National Intelligence.
Health
Infectious diseases and vulnerabilities in the global supply chain for medical countermeasures will continue to pose a danger to US national security in 2016. Land-use changes will increase animal-tohuman interactions and globalization will raise the potential for rapid cross-regional spread of disease, while the international community remains ill prepared to collectively coordinate and respond to disease threats. Influenza viruses, coronaviruses such as the one causing Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), and hemorrhagic fever viruses such as Ebola are examples of infectious disease agents that are passed from animals to humans and can quickly pose regional or global threats.
Oops, my bad. Trump doesn't believe our own intelligence.
Post by: 12HRS on April 06, 2020, 06:08:58 PM
Maybe because there was an uptick in violence against Asians right after this?
proof? and how do we know the uptick was related to that and not the fact that the virus was spreading and people were anyways getting more angry at the chinese?
Post by: Lurker on April 06, 2020, 06:20:01 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 06:21:29 PM
proof? and how do we know the uptick was related to that and not the fact that the virus was spreading and people were anyways getting more angry at the chinese?The same way I know the current videos about Jewish gatherings is based in anti-Semitism. Sometimes you just need to use common sense.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 06:21:37 PM
@Yehuda57 your hamster got loose againLook what happens when you give it to CV to watch for Pesach
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 06:22:22 PM
@Yehuda57 your hamster got loose again>:( >:( >:(
It is now my hamster and I am not selling him back!!!
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 06:24:22 PM
@Yehuda57 your hamster got loose againI call him Chaim.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Look what happens when you give it to CV to watch for PesachNot to worry, looks like one of his dogs got loose.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/TabwFck9vEt44/giphy.gif)
Post by: 12HRS on April 06, 2020, 06:27:33 PM
Sometimes you just need to use common sense.
My wife uses that argument when she doesn't have anything logical to say...
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 06:28:03 PM
I call him Chaim.He goes by Hymie, you know, for parnassah
Post by: aygart on April 06, 2020, 06:28:49 PM
He goes by Hymie, you know, for parnassahHT Jessie Jackson.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 06:30:24 PM
He goes by Hymie, you know, for parnassahHe has feelings. >:(
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 06:31:47 PM
He has feelings. >:(Facts don't care about hamster feelings
Post by: SamCan on April 06, 2020, 10:10:35 PM
I am very pleased that a resolution has been reached between 3M and the U.S. administration. I want to thank 3M and officials on both sides of the border for their support to ensure Canada’s continued access to vital PPE. We are stronger together.
Doug Ford
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:36:21 PM
The cross Border blunder was taken care of.Common sense wins out.
I am very pleased that a resolution has been reached between 3M and the U.S. administration. I want to thank 3M and officials on both sides of the border for their support to ensure Canada’s continued access to vital PPE. We are stronger together.
Doug Ford
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 10:37:55 PM
When others are all using that argument against you then the issue is not them. ;)
My wife uses that argument when she doesn't have anything logical to say...
Post by: whYME on April 06, 2020, 10:57:03 PM
When others are all using that argument against you then the issue is not them. ;)I have a feeling you're gonna regret posting this ;)
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 11:13:18 PM
I have a feeling you're gonna regret posting this ;)Can you star a post? (asking for those who don't have the memory of an elefant)
Post by: miles lover on April 06, 2020, 11:37:53 PM
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 11:39:13 PM
Can you star a post? (asking for those who don't have the memory of an elefant)Sure, it's in your URL bar ;)
Post by: Dan on April 06, 2020, 11:39:35 PM
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?Yes, you are way, way off.
Post by: SamCan on April 06, 2020, 11:43:58 PM
Common sense wins out.
Not all the time, but here it did.
Post by: miles lover on April 06, 2020, 11:45:28 PM
Yes, you are way, way off.I felt like you were a fan of him by the way you wrote about him in the Sunday round up :) I love those round ups btw. Thx !
Still going to wait for someone to at least have the same feelings as me. I’m definitely not certain but I just have this feeing he’s not as good a they think he is.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 06, 2020, 11:45:42 PM
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?You are wrong. Fauci is just Gate's puppet
Tremendous content. Won't blow up because she didn't say Soros, but this is really a tweet of astounding beauty. What was twitter? they'll ask. It was this, we'll say. It was the darkness that lives within us all, set free. pic.twitter.com/Q3X5Asdp8S
— Seth Mandel (@SethAMandel) April 7, 2020
Post by: Yammer on April 06, 2020, 11:50:17 PM
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?Rather overshoot then underestimate. If he would say, for example, that 10k ppl would die everyone will be screaming from the rooftops for him to resign..
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 11:51:13 PM
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 11:53:15 PM
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?Who do you trust? How about Dr Brix?
Post by: miles lover on April 06, 2020, 11:55:10 PM
Rather overshoot then underestimate. If he would say, for example, that 10k ppl would die everyone will be screaming from the rooftops for him to resign..It’s always easier to take extreme safety way out. The trick is to get it correct. Here he seems to be way off. It’s like that rav that says everything is asur. Saying something is mutor is alot harder.
Post by: miles lover on April 06, 2020, 11:57:13 PM
Who do you trust? How about Dr Brix?I don’t have too much faith in doctors in general. I would go to one for his experience. In this virus there isn’t too much experience and we see how their doing.
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 11:58:27 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.html
Post by: CountValentine on April 06, 2020, 11:59:38 PM
I don’t have too much faith in doctors in general. I would go to one for his experience. In this virus there isn’t too much experience and we see how their doing.How about the geeks that put the projections together?
Post by: chevron on April 06, 2020, 11:59:50 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:01:56 AM
Post by: miles lover on April 07, 2020, 12:02:43 AM
How about the geeks that put the projections together?Between themselves you’ll have projected from 10k - 5 million deaths
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:06:50 AM
Between themselves you’ll have projected from 10k - 5 million deathsWhere do you get the figures you have faith in?
Please don't say FOX. :)
Post by: miles lover on April 07, 2020, 12:09:54 AM
Where do you get the figures you have faith in?I don’t know figures so I keep quiet. If it’s just a guessing game then I can guess myself as well. I’ll make a big salary by just guessing ? I’m in
Please don't say FOX. :)
Post by: Yammer on April 07, 2020, 12:18:16 AM
It’s always easier to take extreme safety way out. The trick is to get it correct. Here he seems to be way off. It’s like that rav that says everything is asur. Saying something is mutor is alot harder.As he clearly stated, there are a few models. They basically go with the middle scenario while readying for the worst case scenario.
They are saying that in NY they are BH way under the initial estimation.
While I don't usually post links to sites like this, they link to a reliable source.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/latest-numbers-govt-models-overestimated-hospitalizations-8-times-icu-beds-6-4-times-ventilators-needed-40-5-times/
Post by: Yammer on April 07, 2020, 12:19:22 AM
***BOMBSHELL ALERT***Bombshell because you found someone that said so?
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
I said so as well...
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:24:43 AM
Bombshell because you found someone that said so?It is a high ranking WH official.
I said so as well...
It fits perfectly with the title. I just want the unbiased truth. ;)
Post by: Yammer on April 07, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
It is a high ranking WH official.I agree that the US, Trump, CDC, Governor's/Mayor's were all late to the party.
It fits perfectly with the title. I just want the unbiased truth. ;)
Trump as president obviously should be held accountable, but so should everyone else.
Post by: chevron on April 07, 2020, 12:32:44 AM
As he clearly stated, there are a few models. They basically go with the middle scenario while readying for the worst case scenario.
They are saying that in NY they are BH way under the initial estimation.
While I don't usually post links to sites like this, they link to a reliable source.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/latest-numbers-govt-models-overestimated-hospitalizations-8-times-icu-beds-6-4-times-ventilators-needed-40-5-times/
If anything that's because they took very swift action..
This virus has not gone away. Worse yet, if people have a false sense of security It's going to get much worse
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:33:14 AM
Trump as president obviously should be held accountable, but so should everyone else.I will take Trump and you can have the rest.
Post by: Yehuda57 on April 07, 2020, 12:52:21 AM
I don’t have too much faith in doctors in general.
Faith? Faith I have in G-d. And G-d instructs me to follow doctors' orders.
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:54:35 AM
Faith? Faith I have in G-d. And G-d instructs me to follow doctors' orders.Que up Chaim. :)
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 12:57:40 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2020, 01:02:08 AM
While I don't usually post links to sites like this, they link to a reliable source.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/latest-numbers-govt-models-overestimated-hospitalizations-8-times-icu-beds-6-4-times-ventilators-needed-40-5-times/
The comments on that article are the reason this was always a no-win for Trump (or any politician). The numbers come back lower because of action taken? He overreacted! It's a liberal conspiracy to ruin the economy! He's weak, he's reactive, he's not fit to lead! He doesn't take action quick enough? He's Trump! Too full of himself, a complete moron, not fit to lead!
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 01:09:05 AM
He overreacted! It's a liberal conspiracy to ruin the economy! He's weak, he's reactive, he's not fit to lead! He doesn't take action quick enough? He's Trump! Too full of himself, a complete moron, not fit to lead!You learn quicker than most here. 8)
Post by: Yammer on April 07, 2020, 01:28:25 AM
If anything that's because they took very swift action..Definitely not "very swift action". That I would reserve for Israel's response.
This virus has not gone away. Worse yet, if people have a false sense of security It's going to get much worse
Belated action more like it...
I will take Trump and you can have the rest.I'm sure you couldn't go a day without him...
The comments on that article are the reason this was always a no-win for Trump (or any politician). The numbers come back lower because of action taken? He overreacted! It's a liberal conspiracy to ruin the economy! He's weak, he's reactive, he's not fit to lead! He doesn't take action quick enough? He's Trump! Too full of himself, a complete moron, not fit to lead!Sounds about right for an election season
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 08:20:31 AM
***BOMBSHELL ALERT***This is MASSIVE!!!
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trade-adviser-warned-white-house-in-january-of-risks-of-a-pandemic/ar-BB12fnrp?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2020, 08:22:30 AM
***BOMBSHELL ALERT***
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
Isn’t this routine when you have intelligence and staffers who sit all day and write reports suggesting various outlying scenarios/outcomes? Do we even know if the President heard about this?
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 08:28:12 AM
Isn’t this routine when you have intelligence and staffers who sit all day and write reports suggesting various outlying scenarios/outcomes? Do we even know if the President heard about this?This isn't some staffer. It is a high ranking WH official who is (see signature). The travel ban came the next day. What information prompted the travel ban?
What did he know and when did he know it. Like the title asks will the truth come out. I am pretty confident it will.
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2020, 08:54:45 AM
This isn't some staffer. It is a high ranking WH official who is (see signature). The travel ban came the next day. What information prompted the travel ban?
What did he know and when did he know it. Like the title asks will the truth come out. I am pretty confident it will.
America is so jaded they will vote for their party despite the incompetence of any specific candidate.
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2020, 01:34:49 PM
https://gothamist.com/news/missteps-mayor-bill-de-blasios-coronavirus-response
Post by: ari3 on April 07, 2020, 02:08:55 PM
America is so jaded they will vote for their party despite the incompetence of any specific candidate.Even if The president messed up on certain things (which he definitely did) those that will vote for him will tell you that overall he has done many good things and the alternative is much worse. Do you think Biden or Sanders would have done a better job? (I don't).
Post by: ari3 on April 07, 2020, 02:10:14 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-new-york-city-emergency-ventilator-stockpile-ended-up-on-the-auction-block (https://www.propublica.org/article/how-new-york-city-emergency-ventilator-stockpile-ended-up-on-the-auction-block)Wait this thread was started to criticize Trump not to criticize democrats.
https://gothamist.com/news/missteps-mayor-bill-de-blasios-coronavirus-response
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2020, 02:10:48 PM
Wait this thread was started to criticize Trump not to criticize democrats.You mean it wasn't referring to NYC?
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 02:18:42 PM
Wait this thread was started to criticize Trump not to criticize democrats.It is to list the blunders the WH made. Some are in the wiki if you missed them.
I am surprised you are not crying about the title. :P
Just for you:
&feature=youtu.be
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 04:52:17 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/coronavirus-response-delayed-despite-health-officials-private-alarm/ar-BB12hHtT?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 05:57:01 PM
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2020, 06:04:50 PM
I brought up earlier how the US was blocking masks to Canada. Almost everyone here agreed with that. Since then we are now no longer blocking the masks from going to Canada. Now Trump announces he is trying to send 200 ventilators to the UK because they badly need them. Who would have thought I would be the only one on the same page as Trump.
Me! You guys drink out of different sides of the same pitcher. :P
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 06:09:11 PM
Me! You guys drink out of different sides of the same pitcher. :PEasy to say that after the fact. :)
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2020, 06:33:21 PM
Easy to say that after the fact. :)
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.
I got the Kool-Aid part down earlier... partial credit?
Post by: CountValentine on April 07, 2020, 06:34:51 PM
I got the Kool-Aid part down earlier... partial credit?Sure but I have a copyright on Kool-Aid. You need your own catch phrase.
Post by: Ergel on April 10, 2020, 10:28:57 AM
Do as I say, not as I do
Post by: Proisrael on April 11, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Rivlin-celebrated-Passover-with-daughter-against-coronavirus-laws-report-624269
Do as I say, not as I do
As did Bibi. However they were all checked prior to visiting....
Post by: CountValentine on April 11, 2020, 08:58:22 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/he-could-have-seen-what-was-coming-behind-trumps-failure-on-the-virus/ar-BB12tYrs
Post by: CountValentine on April 12, 2020, 10:55:54 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-lashes-out-at-fauci-amid-criticism-of-slow-virus-response/ar-BB12wPbh?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: Dan on April 12, 2020, 10:57:45 PM
If he fires him it will be a MAJOR blunder.He would lose many centrists votes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-lashes-out-at-fauci-amid-criticism-of-slow-virus-response/ar-BB12wPbh?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: Lurker on April 12, 2020, 10:59:16 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 12, 2020, 11:00:51 PM
So... President Mark Cuban, huh...Is he going to be the VP pick? I can see Biden giving up the spot because of health reasons.
Post by: aygart on April 12, 2020, 11:02:31 PM
Is he going to be the VP pick? I can see Biden giving up the spot because of health reasons.He doesn't qualify unless he identifies as a female.
Post by: Lurker on April 12, 2020, 11:03:51 PM
Is he going to be the VP pick? I can see Biden giving up the spot because of health reasons.
Looks like an independent run. He'd obliterate both of of them in a 3 person race, IMO. Liberal enough to compete with Biden without the senility issues, anti-establishment enough to beat Trump at that game, and the religious nuts are still going to church/shul, so time will tell if they get a vote.
Post by: SamCan on April 12, 2020, 11:06:36 PM
Post by: yochiek93 on April 12, 2020, 11:14:28 PM
If this goes on for months and months, will the election be on time? How will it work?possibly mail in ballots
Post by: PlatinumGuy on April 12, 2020, 11:21:50 PM
If this goes on for months and months, will the election be on time? How will it work?I don't believe the constitution provides any mechanism for the the President to remain in power beyond January.
Israel is talking about election with voting every day for people who's names start with a different letter in the alphabet
Post by: CountValentine on April 12, 2020, 11:22:45 PM
Looks like an independent run. He'd obliterate both of of them in a 3 person race, IMO. Liberal enough to compete with Biden without the senility issues, anti-establishment enough to beat Trump at that game, and the religious nuts are still going to church/shul, so time will tell if they get a vote.Trump has 33-35% Kool-Aid drinkers. About the same for the left fringe. Can he even get on the ballot now besides write in?
Post by: Lurker on April 12, 2020, 11:31:17 PM
Trump has 33-35% Kool-Aid drinkers. About the same for the left fringe. Can he even get on the ballot now besides write in?
The ballots aren't set, considering the nominations aren't official yet, so I'm sure there's a mechanism to get him on. And I think you're over-estimating the Kool-Aid drinkers... A lot of them are in it for his style, and Cuban will take a chunk of those.
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 06:49:16 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/ar-BB12zTcc?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: yaakov35 on April 14, 2020, 10:27:09 AM
This is why you needed a national stay-at-home order. Some idiots still just don't get it.Your wrong on so many levels. Although fits right into the anti trump agenda ;). Here in California there is a national stay at home order. Stores are busy like regular, streets are full, parks are full, everything is running regular. Only thing different is some people not going to work. Stay at home order is nice, but clearly doesn't have a profound impact on people.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/ar-BB12zTcc?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 10:29:46 AM
Your wrong on so many levels. Although fits right into the anti trump agenda ;). Here in California there is a national stay at home order. Stores are busy like regular, streets are full, parks are full, everything is running regular. Only thing different is some people not going to work. Stay at home order is nice, but clearly doesn't have a profound impact on people.Stay-at-home is a mindset and helps on many levels. CA would have been worse if people didn't stay at home. You can't fix stupid.
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 10:31:32 AM
You can't fix stupid.
CA's state motto
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
CA's state mottoThis coming from a state that allowed Spring break. What is FL's state moto? Stupid tries to fix stupid? :P
Post by: yaakov35 on April 14, 2020, 10:35:20 AM
Stay-at-home is a mindset and helps on many levels.One would think so. I'm telling, that on a practical level it does not seem to be helping. And 100%, can't fix stupid
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 10:37:13 AM
One would think so. I'm telling, that on a practical level it does not seem to be helping. And 100%, can't fix stupidI have many relatives in CA. They are staying at home.
How did CA flatten the curve, by accident?
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 10:40:34 AM
This coming from a state that allowed Spring break. What is FL's state moto? Stupid tries to fix stupid? :P
"Let stupid reign! And try to take their money..."
Post by: yaakov35 on April 14, 2020, 10:44:03 AM
I have many relatives in CA. They are staying at home.NYC is far more congested, so makes sense we didn't get it as bad. As far as the curve, no idea. Makes no sense, because in the city people really aren't taking it seriously.
How did CA flatten the curve, by accident?
Post by: aygart on April 14, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I have many relatives in CA. They are staying at home.Maybe. How would we know one way or the other?
How did CA flatten the curve, by accident?
Post by: zh cohen on April 14, 2020, 01:44:30 PM
This is why you needed a national stay-at-home order. Some idiots still just don't get it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/ar-BB12zTcc?ocid=spartanntp
Invalid Tweet ID
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 02:29:31 PM
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 02:35:44 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 02:40:24 PM
I'd just like to point out that it's very likely a stay-home order wouldn't have prevented anything in this case. It's a pork plant, which would be considered essential. All 300 employees would likely still have been exposed.That is why I added: That may come later because they are following the same blunders the WH has made.
We know how this thing spreads.
Post by: S209 on April 14, 2020, 02:45:26 PM
Invalid Tweet IDMoronic, anyone with half a brain would tell you the deaths come after the hospitalizations which come after the spread/positives. This pattern has repeated itself EVERYWHERE, why can’t people understand that?
Let me guess. If/when deaths start piling up they’re going to say “Now everyone’s infected already so it’s safe to be open”.
Sheesh.
Post by: JMHO on April 14, 2020, 02:47:32 PM
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?
Let's hear it.
Post by: aygart on April 14, 2020, 02:48:44 PM
Moronic, anyone with half a brain would tell you the deaths come after the hospitalizations which come after the spread/positives. This pattern has repeated itself EVERYWHERE, why can’t people understand that?Agreed that it is a stupid move by the governor, but to call it one of the nation's biggest hotspots based on such numbers is ridiculous and can only be to further the political agenda. When it happens say it then. Lying only makes credibility get lost.
Let me guess. If/when deaths start piling up they’re going to say “Now everyone’s infected already so it’s safe to be open”.
Sheesh.
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 02:52:28 PM
@CountValentine what is your proposal?I am not president. I don't have resources, numbers and expert advice that he does.
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?
Let's hear it.
I can tell you one thing. If I believed shutting down flights from China was right because of the seriousness I would not have waited another month+ to take my next steps.
What happens when it comes out the main risk to NYC was from Europe and not China? When were flights shutdown from Europe?
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 02:54:57 PM
Agreed that it is a stupid move by the governor, but to call it one of the nation's biggest hotspots based on such numbers is ridiculous and can only be to further the political agenda. When it happens say it then. Lying only makes credibility get lost.
+1, especially when the outbreak was in a place which would have been open under any guidelines.
There are enough bad decisions being made and enough blame to go around without trying to turn every incident into Trump's Benghazi.
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 03:03:38 PM
There are enough bad decisions being made and enough blame to go around without trying to turn every incident into Trump's Benghazi.This isn't about Trumps Watergate. It is about these Governors who think it isn't going to hit them. How is your governors blunders working out? Didn't this moron just announce that the WWE is an essential business? That is like saying wh*rehouses are an essential business. >:( >:( >:(
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
@CountValentine what is your proposal?
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?
Let's hear it.
Just a few ideas...
1) 2 week national stay-at-home order, with individual states determining which businesses are essential in their state.
2) Close all airports and trains, and ban inter-country and interstate travel.
3) Make masks mandatory for anyone who is more than 1000 feet from their residence, or in any public place.
4) Offer tax breaks to any business that keeps employees working from home.
5) Give tax breaks and/or partial student loan forgiveness to any and all frontline responders.
6) Subsidize delivery services which meet certain criteria in safe practices and people served.
7) Offer tax incentives to all businesses that come up with re-open plans which keep customers out of stores (curbside, delivery, etc).
Post by: aygart on April 14, 2020, 03:16:00 PM
This isn't about Trumps Watergate. It is about these Governors who think it isn't going to hit them. How is your governors blunders working out? Didn't this moron just announce that the WWE is an essential business? That is like saying wh*rehouses are an essential business. >:( >:( >:(And liquor stores
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:18:14 PM
This isn't about Trumps Watergate. It is about these Governors who think it isn't going to hit them. How is your governors blunders working out? Didn't this moron just announce that the WWE is an essential business? That is like saying wh*rehouses are an essential business. >:( >:( >:(
No governor thinks this won't hit them. They just think it's ok to risk lives for economic relief. The moron in charge of my state is looking at numbers. If the old people die, their kids don't vote in FL. But the big business who contribute to his campaign, they'll remember if he closed their businesses.
This is what you get when you have politicians making medical decisions.
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 03:21:56 PM
This is what you get when you have politicians making medical decisions.So now it has come down to the R's are putting businesses ahead of lives?
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:22:06 PM
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:23:46 PM
So now it has come down to the R's are putting businesses ahead of lives?
It comes down to politicians putting their campaign coffers ahead of lives. This isn't new, and it's never going away. Democrats, Republicans, Green Party, Independents, doesn't matter. You don't get a say unless you're elected, so you do whatever it takes to get elected.
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 03:28:58 PM
...so you do whatever it takes to get elected.That pretty cynical. You believe that for all power positions?
Be careful with your answer. ;)
Post by: aygart on April 14, 2020, 03:29:55 PM
That pretty cynical. You believe that for all power positions?
Be careful with your answer. ;)
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:32:36 PM
That pretty cynical. You believe that for all power positions?
Be careful with your answer. ;)
I believe it to be the rule rather than the exception. I also believe it becomes more prevalent in accordance with the power of the office.
Post by: aygart on April 14, 2020, 03:34:57 PM
I believe it to be the rule rather than the exception. I also believe it becomes more prevalent in accordance with the power of the office.
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:36:30 PM
That face tells me I pressed the wrong button and you're going to get your popcorn...
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 03:39:06 PM
I believe it to be the rule rather than the exception. I also believe it becomes more prevalent in accordance with the power of the office.So lets take a religious position of power like the Pope. I guess you think it is more likely to be the rule than the exception?
You get three guesses what my next question will be and the first two guesses don't count. :)
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 03:44:00 PM
So lets take a religious position of power like the Pope. I guess you think it is more likely to be the rule than the exception?
You get three guesses what my next question will be and the first two guesses don't count. :)
I don't know enough about the current power of the position to comment on that. I can say that historically, the position has not been impervious to corruption. And if you're going to lean towards positions in the Jewish communities, I'll say that those which are subject to election or re-election, have absolutely been corrupted in the past.
Post by: CountValentine on April 14, 2020, 03:51:49 PM
I don't know enough about the current power of the position to comment on that. I can say that historically, the position has not been impervious to corruption. And if you're going to lean towards positions in the Jewish communities, I'll say that those which are subject to election or re-election, have absolutely been corrupted in the past.Man is not impervious to corruption. That is why anything that man touches becomes corrupt. If you are looking for something that is not corrupt then there is only one place to look and it is not on this earth. With that being said that does not mean that someone will say anything to get what they want.
Everyone likes to talk like politicians are a different human race. They are no different than any other human being. Just like in religion you have those that feel they are more pious we have the same thing when it comes to politicians.
Post by: Lurker on April 14, 2020, 04:25:41 PM
Man is not impervious to corruption. That is why anything that man touches becomes corrupt. If you are looking for something that is not corrupt then there is only one place to look and it is not on this earth. With that being said that does not mean that someone will say anything to get what they want.
Everyone likes to talk like politicians are a different human race. They are no different than any other human being. Just like in religion you have those that feel they are more pious we have the same thing when it comes to politicians.
This is conversation for another day, but I'll give the 10 cent response.
To start, there's a big difference between those who seek power and those who are revered enough to be anointed (so to speak).
Additionally, I agree that politicians are as human as the rest of us. Many individuals would do no better than corrupt politicians, if they were put in the same position and given the same access to opportunity. There are also many people who would be better in those positions of power, but never make it there. Some shun the opportunity to begin with, in order to avoid playing in the mud. There are also many who lose out during the process, because they won't play as dirty as their competition. Ultimately, I do not believe that the best representatives of humanity are found in public office, though there are some exceptions.
Post by: S209 on April 17, 2020, 04:21:39 AM
This is conversation for another day, but I'll give the 10 cent response.Steve Levitt and Steven Dubner make the very convincing argument that paying politicians very well and/or giving them cash incentives for implementing good long-term policy would raise the quality of our pool of politicians and therefore our policies at a relatively inexpensive price.
To start, there's a big difference between those who seek power and those who are revered enough to be anointed (so to speak).
Additionally, I agree that politicians are as human as the rest of us. Many individuals would do no better than corrupt politicians, if they were put in the same position and given the same access to opportunity. There are also many people who would be better in those positions of power, but never make it there. Some shun the opportunity to begin with, in order to avoid playing in the mud. There are also many who lose out during the process, because they won't play as dirty as their competition. Ultimately, I do not believe that the best representatives of humanity are found in public office, though there are some exceptions.
Post by: AsherO on April 17, 2020, 07:24:48 AM
Steve Levitt and Steven Dubner make the very convincing argument that paying politicians very well and/or giving them cash incentives for implementing good long-term policy would raise the quality of our pool of politicians and therefore our policies at a relatively inexpensive price.
It’s a good story in theory. But who controls the money and the metrics? And how do you ensure you’re incentivizing them more than whatever lobby (or worse...) they’re currently motivated by?
Post by: S209 on April 17, 2020, 07:50:01 AM
It’s a good story in theory. But who controls the money and the metrics? And how do you ensure you’re incentivizing them more than whatever lobby (or worse...) they’re currently motivated by?The theory basically goes if you pay them millions they will not need to resort to the classic bribery that goes on, of course people prefer to work honestly and transparently at the job they’re supposed to. Politicians just historically make their money/frills from lobbyists because they’re poorly compensated in general.
Also, their proposal is that as long term policy is judged the politicians who enacted the well-done legislation can get bonuses.
Post by: CountValentine on April 17, 2020, 07:52:55 AM
Politicians just historically make their money/frills from lobbyists because they’re poorly compensated in general.Source?
Post by: AsherO on April 17, 2020, 08:04:31 AM
The theory basically goes if you pay them millions they will not need to resort to the classic bribery that goes on, of course people prefer to work honestly and transparently at the job they’re supposed to. Politicians just historically make their money/frills from lobbyists because they’re poorly compensated in general.
Also, their proposal is that as long term policy is judged the politicians who enacted the well-done legislation can get bonuses.
A few holes in this logic:
1. It cost gazillions of dollars to get into office, honest people oftentimes can’t afford to get on the ballot.
2. You still haven’t explained how they quantify success. In a 4 year term a representative official (senator/congressman) will have voted on hundreds/thousands of items, and their voting record is only a small voice in determining the outcome of each of those votes. Multiply that by hundreds of elected officials with different/overlapping time periods served, and it’s hard to quantify this stuff on scale to decide who merits a bonus.
3. If the bonuses come at the end of said long term, the politicians will have long retired/been voted out. It’s hard to tempt someone with a vague promise down the road, where there’s an opportunity in the here and now to partner with specific interests, vote a certain way, introduce certain bills, and your campaign is well funded for the next election.
Post by: S209 on April 17, 2020, 09:10:02 AM
A few holes in this logic:Alright, here’s (https://freakonomics.com/2012/06/21/would-paying-politicians-more-attract-better-politicians/) the article, now tell me what you think
1. It cost gazillions of dollars to get into office, honest people oftentimes can’t afford to get on the ballot.
2. You still haven’t explained how they quantify success. In a 4 year term a representative official (senator/congressman) will have voted on hundreds/thousands of items, and their voting record is only a small voice in determining the outcome of each of those votes. Multiply that by hundreds of elected officials with different/overlapping time periods served, and it’s hard to quantify this stuff on scale to decide who merits a bonus.
3. If the bonuses come at the end of said long term, the politicians will have long retired/been voted out. It’s hard to tempt someone with a vague promise down the road, where there’s an opportunity in the here and now to partner with specific interests, vote a certain way, introduce certain bills, and your campaign is well funded for the next election.
Source?As I said, it’s a theory. Theories can’t have sources, else they wouldn’t be theories, but facts.
Post by: AsherO on April 17, 2020, 09:49:40 AM
Alright, here’s (https://freakonomics.com/2012/06/21/would-paying-politicians-more-attract-better-politicians/) the article, now tell me what you think
Thanks for sharing, I skimmed it and it didn’t seem very compelling/thought through. I think 0 would change if the US raised the presidents salary to $10mm/year. Make it $100mm/year and it will just fund the next generations of the Great American Political Machine.
Post by: CountValentine on April 17, 2020, 09:50:07 AM
As I said, it’s a theory. Theories can’t have sources, else they wouldn’t be theories, but facts.Oh it is your theories., got it.
Post by: CountValentine on April 19, 2020, 10:21:09 AM
To do it right it needs to be on a national level with the government running it. We seen the disaster with PPE's and should learn from our mistakes. States getting into bidding wars with each other and the federal government. It would have been best for the government to buy everything and then distribute it.
This is just another blunder for the administration. They know they have failed so far with testing and now what to put it on the states.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-partisan-battle-lines-emerge-over-testing/ar-BB12S3VK?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: Mordyk on April 19, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Of course they will make it a political issue.We can argue about this, but the reopening plan makes a lot of sense. And the bailout obviously was not enough but a lot was done in a very short time. I think long term obviously we will see blunders because we are humans, but overall people will approve of trump's approach.
To do it right it needs to be on a national level with the government running it. We seen the disaster with PPE's and should learn from our mistakes. States getting into bidding wars with each other and the federal government. It would have been best for the government to buy everything and then distribute it.
This is just another blunder for the administration. They know they have failed so far with testing and now what to put it on the states.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-partisan-battle-lines-emerge-over-testing/ar-BB12S3VK?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: S209 on April 19, 2020, 10:55:26 AM
Of course they will make it a political issue.It’s clear that the approaches taken by different cities/states were what mattered. Look at California vs. NY.
To do it right it needs to be on a national level with the government running it. We seen the disaster with PPE's and should learn from our mistakes. States getting into bidding wars with each other and the federal government. It would have been best for the government to buy everything and then distribute it.
This is just another blunder for the administration. They know they have failed so far with testing and now what to put it on the states.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-partisan-battle-lines-emerge-over-testing/ar-BB12S3VK?li=BBnb7Kz
At the end of the day states have more power than the federal government in implementing distancing laws etc. so it’s unfair to blame Trump for the failures of some states
Post by: CountValentine on April 19, 2020, 11:18:48 AM
We can argue about this, but the reopening plan makes a lot of sense. And the bailout obviously was not enough but a lot was done in a very short time. I think long term obviously we will see blunders because we are humans, but overall people will approve of trump's approach.
It’s clear that the approaches taken by different cities/states were what mattered. Look at California vs. NY.The point is testing is the key to reopening. We need to that on a mass level. Saying we did 3 million test on a nation of 300mm+ is massive failure. This needs to be a national effort run by the government. Putting it off on the states is the blunder.
At the end of the day states have more power than the federal government in implementing distancing laws etc. so it’s unfair to blame Trump for the failures of some states
As far as Trumps response and his approval of it we will find out.
Post by: Mordyk on April 19, 2020, 11:27:56 AM
The point is testing is the key to reopening. We need to that on a mass level. Saying we did 3 million test on a nation of 300mm+ is massive failure. This needs to be a national effort run by the government. Putting it off on the states is the blunder.so you agree with Trump on something ;)
As far as Trumps response and his approval of it we will find out.
Post by: CountValentine on April 19, 2020, 11:31:35 AM
so you agree with Trump on something ;)More than you think but the haters here will say I don't.
Post by: S209 on April 19, 2020, 12:44:03 PM
Post by: aygart on April 19, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
Watching Cuomo’s big press conference.. has he lost his mind? Rambling about spaghetti and meatballs and his daughter’s boyfriend and his grandfather..Taking a page from the president?
Post by: CountValentine on April 19, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/delusional-absolutely-false-governors-cry-foul-on-trump-testing-claims/ar-BB12SyoB?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: elya on April 20, 2020, 10:51:31 AM
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 10:55:01 AM
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/19/bill_maher_vs_dan_crenshaw_is_the_goal_to_make_trump_look_bad_or_is_the_goal_to_get_to_the_truth.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/19/bill_maher_vs_dan_crenshaw_is_the_goal_to_make_trump_look_bad_or_is_the_goal_to_get_to_the_truth.html)
What I think is a common sentiment of forum members
Quote
"What do we feel about him? Don't you want to comment about his latest tweet and the way he lashed out? No, I don't," Crenshaw said. "I can't defend everything. He doesn't have the same style as I do. I don't consider him to be my spiritual guide by any means."This sounds very much like many conversations on this forum where someone harps on some dumb comments made by Trump while actions while others point out that actions were really taken while the Dems were actively thwarting the actual actions.
Post by: grodnoking on April 20, 2020, 11:06:37 AM
What I think is a common sentiment of forum membersHe's a bumbling idiot who says more stupid things then Elon Musk, but at the end of the day he usually does more good then bad, and does more doing than previous presidents (IMHO).
This sounds very much like many conversations on this forum where someone harps on some dumb comments made by Trump while actions while others point out that actions were really taken while the Dems were actively thwarting the actual actions.
He is not a presidential figure and it's a little embarrassing for this country, and there could have been a much better president then him. But the truth is a more mainstream right wing person probably would not have won, and his personality probably got more right wing voters out to vote.
At the end of the day it's policy that gets my vote, not the person. I dislike his attitude and repertoire, I dislike his overbearing self confidence, I dislike him. But I like most of his policies, and that's what a president is in office for.
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 11:18:18 AM
He's a bumbling idiot who says more stupid things then Elon Musk, but at the end of the day he usually does more good then bad, and does more doing than previous presidents (IMHO).Some have a hard time understanding this
He is not a presidential figure and it's a little embarrassing for this country, and there could have been a much better president then him. But the truth is a more mainstream right wing person probably would not have won, and his personality probably got more right wing voters out to vote.
At the end of the day it's policy that gets my vote, not the person. I dislike his attitude and repertoire, I dislike his overbearing self confidence, I dislike him. But I like most of his policies, and that's what a president is in office for.
Post by: SamCan on April 20, 2020, 11:20:29 PM
Trump seems super excited about his new immigration ban, that he had to tweet about it without providing details.
Like every other ban Trump announces, he will announce one thing and than it will be revised and clarified. It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 11:32:16 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/these-us-citizens-wont-get-coronavirus-stimulus-checks-—-because-their-spouses-are-immigrants/ar-BB12WWwR?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: yeshivabucher on April 21, 2020, 11:35:17 AM
...and the blunders just keep on coming.he signed the darn bill last we checked its made in congress and its their responsibility to make sure that doesnt happen
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/these-us-citizens-wont-get-coronavirus-stimulus-checks-—-because-their-spouses-are-immigrants/ar-BB12WWwR?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 11:36:37 AM
he signed the darn bill last we checked its made in congress and its their responsibility to make sure that doesnt happenYou make it sound like this was an accident.
Post by: SamCan on April 21, 2020, 11:46:08 AM
You make it sound like this was an accident.
This bill was passed by both parties, the blame is on both.
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 11:50:31 AM
This bill was passed by both parties, the blame is on both.That is not how bills work. Both sides have their priorities and try to get as much as they can for their side. Like the double dip on the UI. Some R's thought that was a mistake and wanted it fixed. The D's new exactly what they were doing when they put it in. Just as I will give 10-1 this was what the R's wanted. Lets be real here!
Post by: aygart on April 21, 2020, 11:51:04 AM
You make it sound like this was an accident.So why do you think the House put it into HR748?
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 06:13:52 PM
New blunder around he corner.Revised and clarified? This was an EO, no?
Trump seems super excited about his new immigration ban, that he had to tweet about it without providing details.
Like every other ban Trump announces, he will announce one thing and than it will be revised and clarified. It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).
Post by: SamCan on April 21, 2020, 06:42:29 PM
That is not how bills work. Both sides have their priorities and try to get as much as they can for their side. Like the double dip on the UI. Some R's thought that was a mistake and wanted it fixed. The D's new exactly what they were doing when they put it in. Just as I will give 10-1 this was what the R's wanted. Lets be real here!
Ok so now it’s your theory that Trump caused the blunder.
Post by: SamCan on April 21, 2020, 06:42:50 PM
Revised and clarified? This was an EO, no?
Doesn’t seems so.
Post by: Mordyk on April 21, 2020, 08:29:26 PM
New blunder around he corner.no blunder here. he clarified it in a way that should make Americans proud! a few month ban so when businesses restart the jobs will go to citizens.
Trump seems super excited about his new immigration ban, that he had to tweet about it without providing details.
Like every other ban Trump announces, he will announce one thing and than it will be revised and clarified. It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 09:29:26 PM
no blunder here. he clarified it in a way that should make Americans proud! a few month ban so when businesses restart the jobs will go to citizens.So no exemptions for the slaves, sorry I mean cotton pickers?
Post by: grodnoking on April 21, 2020, 09:52:08 PM
So no exemptions for the slaves, sorry I mean cotton pickers?There's 350 million for them. And they won't have to pay it back either, you will. (Ftr I have no idea what you were aiming at so I took it for what I wanted it to say).
Post by: SamCan on April 21, 2020, 09:55:19 PM
no blunder here. he clarified it in a way that should make Americans proud! a few month ban so when businesses restart the jobs will go to citizens.
There are definitely merits to doing so, he just acted like a little child that can’t hold in excitement and had to send off a random late night tweet. Why couldn’t he just notify us at a press conference with all the details.
There is still some confusion, are the borders fully closed to non citizens? Are deportations going to happen? Does it have an automatic sunset clause or it will just stay there.
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 09:55:50 PM
There's 350 million for them. And they won't have to pay it back either, you will. (Ftr I have no idea what you were aiming at so I took it for what I wanted it to say).You can always ask if you don't understand or it isn't clear.
Post by: grodnoking on April 21, 2020, 09:59:24 PM
There are definitely merits to doing so, he just acted like a little child that can’t hold in excitement and had to send off a random late night tweet. Why couldn’t he just notify us at a press conference with all the details.
I'm not sure notifying us at a press conference would have in any what way changed it from "acting like a little child that can’t hold in excitement".
Post by: CountValentine on April 22, 2020, 06:03:22 PM
So no exemptions for the slaves, sorry I mean cotton pickers?Just as I predicted. >:(
Post by: aygart on April 22, 2020, 08:38:15 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/22/hhs-ousts-vaccine-expert-as-covid-19-threat-grows-201642
Post by: CountValentine on April 22, 2020, 09:00:18 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-hong-kong-flattened-the-curve-without-total-lockdown/ar-BB133x5v?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 09:42:01 PM
Can not having everyone wear masks be the biggest blinder?At the time the WHO and CDC were not recommending them, and we trusted the WHO. Why was it a blunder?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-hong-kong-flattened-the-curve-without-total-lockdown/ar-BB133x5v?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: CountValentine on April 22, 2020, 09:57:24 PM
At the time the WHO and CDC were not recommending them, and we trusted the WHO. Why was it a blunder?CDC is a federal agency. I guess you agree with Trump when he said he takes no responsibility?
Post by: zh cohen on April 22, 2020, 10:33:32 PM
And here goes....
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/22/hhs-ousts-vaccine-expert-as-covid-19-threat-grows-201642
So he was
1 - Clashing with his boss for a year
2 - on the record in support of hydroxychloroquine
But if he screams #OrangeManBad he gets a 6 figure book deal so...
Post by: zh cohen on April 22, 2020, 10:35:08 PM
CDC is a federal agency. I guess you agree with Trump when he said he takes no responsibility?
Was he supposed to listen to the experts or know better than them?
Post by: CountValentine on April 22, 2020, 10:47:37 PM
Was he supposed to listen to the experts or know better than them?Read the title of the thread. This was a major blunder by the administration. What part of that don't you understand?
Post by: S209 on April 23, 2020, 02:14:15 AM
Post by: Lurker on April 23, 2020, 06:53:43 AM
I want to clarify something. When you say “this administration”, do you mean relative to other countries? Other leaders? How you would have done it? Even if in hindsight something doesn’t work out, that does not by definition equal a blunder. So I’m curious what you’re referring to.
We've clarified this already. The title says what it means. It's regardless of anyone else's track record or theoretical ability to do it better. It's purely a scorecard on things that should have, or even could have, been done differently by the US government led by Donald J. Trump.
Post by: CountValentine on April 23, 2020, 07:15:02 AM
We've clarified this already. The title says what it means. It's regardless of anyone else's track record or theoretical ability to do it better. It's purely a scorecard on things that should have, or even could have, been done differently by the US government led by Donald J. Trump.I will be hiring a speech writer in the near future. You would be one of the top ones I will be considering if you are interested.
Post by: Lurker on April 23, 2020, 07:42:32 AM
I will be hiring a speech writer in the near future. You would be one of the top ones I will be considering if you are interested.
Currently accepting offers.
Post by: CountValentine on April 23, 2020, 12:47:15 PM
It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).He gave them a machinegun with this one.
Allow slave labor to pick the cotton. >:(
He is not a racist. ::)
Post by: CountValentine on April 23, 2020, 09:15:39 PM
Post by: CountValentine on April 24, 2020, 12:51:24 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-backlash-wh-claims-trump-disinfectant-ingestion-idea-taken-out-of-context/ar-BB139qXx?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: Lurker on April 24, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Yes the media is twisting his words but it is still a blunder to say stupid stuff like this. Words have consequences.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-backlash-wh-claims-trump-disinfectant-ingestion-idea-taken-out-of-context/ar-BB139qXx?li=BBnb7Kz
Hey! Royalties, please!
Post by: CountValentine on April 24, 2020, 01:27:00 PM
Hey! Royalties, please!Take it up with CM. :P
Post by: Lurker on April 24, 2020, 01:30:46 PM
Take it up with CM. :P
We'll work it into the spokesperson contract.
Post by: elya on April 26, 2020, 12:53:03 AM
Point one:
Invalid Tweet ID?s=12
Post by: Lurker on April 26, 2020, 12:57:07 AM
So looks like the administration in NY (Yes the "Great" Mr. Cuomo) might have some serious answering to do when this is over. (Assuming they even get asked the questions)
Point one:
Invalid Tweet ID?s=12
First of all, as the spokesperson, I feel obligated to tell you that youre going to be signed, cuz this topic is specifically regarding the President's Administration's blunders.
But what's Bongino referring to?
Post by: elya on April 26, 2020, 12:59:56 AM
First of all, as the spokesperson, I feel obligated to tell you that youre going to be signed, cuz this topic is specifically regarding the President's Administration's blunders.Start with this:
But what's Bongino referring to?
https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/new-york-nursing-home-denied-requests-to-send-covid-19-patients-to-usns-comfort/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_content=20200425&tpcc=morning_report&mpweb=755-8806994-720560312
I can confirm this info first hand from a few friends in the business, it wasn't just this one home.
Post by: Lurker on April 26, 2020, 01:03:14 AM
Start with this:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/new-york-nursing-home-denied-requests-to-send-covid-19-patients-to-usns-comfort/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_content=20200425&tpcc=morning_report&mpweb=755-8806994-720560312
I can confirm this info first hand from a few friends in the business, it wasn't just this one home.
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.
Post by: elya on April 26, 2020, 01:04:41 AM
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.This too:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-mandates-nursing-homes-take-covid-19-patients-discharged-from-hospitals-11585228215
Post by: elya on April 26, 2020, 01:07:25 AM
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.I've heard first hand, Nursing homes pleaded to send (relatively small number of) Covid patients to Javitz or the ship so as not to infect the rest of the home, and were flatly denied thereby resulting in many deaths.
Post by: Onefishtwofishredfishblue on April 26, 2020, 01:13:47 AM
Post by: elya on April 26, 2020, 01:18:21 AM
Post by: S209 on April 26, 2020, 01:18:29 AM
I've heard first hand, Nursing homes pleaded to send (relatively small number of) Covid patients to Javitz or the ship so as not to infect the rest of the home, and were flatly denied thereby resulting in many deaths.I’m pretty sure Cuomo said openly in his Thursday press conference that he does not have responsibilities to nursing homes, he has responsibilities to hospitals.
Post by: aygart on April 26, 2020, 01:23:24 AM
I’m pretty sure Cuomo said openly in his Thursday press conference that he does not have responsibilities to nursing homes, he has responsibilities to hospitals.Okay then if he said he is not responsible then all is well
Post by: S209 on April 26, 2020, 01:29:08 AM
Okay then if he said he is not responsible then all is wellI was just saying you don’t need to dig around to find dirt on him, he has said it outright
Post by: CountValentine on April 26, 2020, 08:00:35 AM
Post by: elya on April 26, 2020, 09:55:13 AM
What does any of this have to do with wanting to test injecting people with disinfectant?Hey, don't knock it till you try it.
Post by: CountValentine on April 26, 2020, 09:57:04 AM
Hey, don't knock it till you try it.I hope you didn't give that advice to JJ disciples. >:(
Post by: Yard sale on April 26, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
Start with this:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/new-york-nursing-home-denied-requests-to-send-covid-19-patients-to-usns-comfort/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_content=20200425&tpcc=morning_report&mpweb=755-8806994-720560312
I can confirm this info first hand from a few friends in the business, it wasn't just this one home.
If you believe this Cuomo is responsible for murder. The administration forced virus free nursing homes to take covid patients from hospitals against their will, subsequently infecting and killing dozens of nursing home residents. The State was nice enough to send a bundle of body bags to the nursing home along with the covid patients. If this is accurate heads should roll.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-patients-admitted-to-queens-nursing-home-with-body-bags/
Post by: Shmobaum on April 27, 2020, 12:20:42 AM
If you believe this Cuomo is responsible for murder. The administration forced virus free nursing homes to take covid patients from hospitals against their will, subsequently infecting and killing dozens of nursing home residents. The State was nice enough to send a bundle of body bags to the nursing home along with the covid patients. If this is accurate heads should roll.The Italian mafia boss??? Duh
https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-patients-admitted-to-queens-nursing-home-with-body-bags/
Post by: elya on April 27, 2020, 01:33:04 AM
If you believe this Cuomo is responsible for murder. The administration forced virus free nursing homes to take covid patients from hospitals against their will, subsequently infecting and killing dozens of nursing home residents. The State was nice enough to send a bundle of body bags to the nursing home along with the covid patients. If this is accurate heads should roll.Speak to people in the industry in NY, reports seem quite accurate.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-patients-admitted-to-queens-nursing-home-with-body-bags/
But hey, he has emerged as "a leader". 🙈
Post by: CountValentine on April 27, 2020, 07:47:34 PM
When did he know it?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/presidents-intelligence-briefing-book-repeatedly-cited-virus-threat/ar-BB13hFnC?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: CountValentine on April 27, 2020, 08:15:37 PM
Post by: yelped on April 27, 2020, 10:20:39 PM
From Republicans and going to be run on FOX. Look at Dr Birx expression.The poor Dr.
Post by: CountValentine on April 27, 2020, 10:25:21 PM
The poor Dr.I look at her and think "Yes she understands our pain".
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 05:41:47 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-plans-to-order-meat-processing-plants-to-stay-open-during-coronavirus/ar-BB13kBRq?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 12:32:29 AM
Dr. Deborah Birx to Yahoo's Hunter Walker: I just want to make it clear South Korea's testing was 11 per 100k, and we're at 17 per 100k.
— August Takala (@AugustTakala) April 28, 2020
TRUMP: Are you going to apologize, Yahoo? That's why you're Yahoo, and nobody knows who the hell you are.
Dr. Birx: Just check it again. pic.twitter.com/BWk0m9rPJ6
Post by: CountValentine on April 29, 2020, 12:42:23 AM
What an idiotWho?
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 12:47:07 AM
Who?The better question is who not, but I think you can figure out which one she is.
Post by: CountValentine on April 29, 2020, 12:58:38 AM
The better question is who not, but I think you can figure out which one she is.I am not sure but the US was way behind. They have now caught up and past SK. Sort of dishonest for Dr Birx to bring up per capita when she would never before when talking about this. Also SK has relaxed their testing. Now the other side will bring up Italy as they are way in front.
Post by: CountValentine on April 30, 2020, 02:44:25 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/karen-pence-says-vice-president-didnt-know-about-mayo-clinic-mask-policy-until-he-left/ar-BB13qpvy?ocid=spartanntp
ETA: That was quick.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/vice-president-mike-pence-wears-coronavirus-mask-after-criticism-for-mayo-clinic-visit/ar-BB13qXOT?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: aygart on April 30, 2020, 05:12:14 PM
Once Upon a Virus... pic.twitter.com/FY0svfEKc6
— Ambassade de Chine en France (@AmbassadeChine) April 30, 2020
Post by: Sammyonetwo on April 30, 2020, 06:12:17 PM
It’s not like China didn’t have 80 to 100k deaths and the rest of the world is all on the same paste per capita in identical situations.
And the truth is not one administration would have done better when the leading scientists were all saying it was nothing that the American people have to worry about up until March when to little to late.
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 02:50:01 PM
The fact that many peer countries are struggling with COVID-19 roughly as much as the US suggests there's some naivety to claims such as "the US could greatly improve the situation with [my proposed solution]… IF ONLY WE HAD BETTER LEADERSHIP!!!".
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) May 1, 2020
And all of these countries are struggling with the "reopening conversation" just as much as we are. This might suggest that authors of these plans are not thinking enough about what the actual political (and logistical, etc.) constraints are.
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) May 1, 2020
Post by: CountValentine on May 01, 2020, 02:53:43 PM
Did they all have the mindset that 15 would be 0 and not take this seriously? If so then their inaction also cost lives.
Post by: neveryou on May 01, 2020, 04:42:39 PM
Post by: neveryou on May 01, 2020, 04:44:42 PM
I’m pretty sure Cuomo said openly in his Thursday press conference that he does not have responsibilities to nursing homes, he has responsibilities to hospitals.He also said he doesn't have a responsibility to people who are out of a job, like he said a while ago at a press conference that they should get an "essential" job
Post by: neveryou on May 01, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.Probably won't because hes a democrat
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 04:59:47 PM
Did they all have the mindset that 15 would be 0 and not take this seriously? If so then their inaction also cost lives.Or that not all stupidity always ends such results.
Post by: CountValentine on May 01, 2020, 05:01:29 PM
Or that not all stupidity always ends such results.OK Sweden. :)
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 05:04:22 PM
OK Sweden. :)That is down by their having worse results that others. If our results are in line with others then we are not the same as Sweden.
Post by: CountValentine on May 01, 2020, 05:07:22 PM
That is down by their having worse results that others. If our results are in line with others then we are not the same as Sweden.Come on, man!
Bottom line: He touts blocking flights from China then does nothing for a month except downplaying the virus.
Looks like we will have 100k+ deaths. You can't spin that.
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 05:08:50 PM
Come on, man!What matters is deaths per million compared to others with supposedly better leadership.
Bottom line: He touts blocking flights from China then does nothing for a month except downplaying the virus.
Looks like we will have 100k+ deaths. You can't spin that.
Post by: CountValentine on May 01, 2020, 05:13:21 PM
What matters is deaths per million compared to others with supposedly better leadership.If 1k dies it would be a non-issue. 100k and someone gets blamed.
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 05:15:06 PM
If 1k dies it would be a non-issue. 100k and someone gets blamed.They doesn't mean it is justified
Post by: Lurker on May 01, 2020, 05:22:45 PM
If 1k dies it would be a non-issue. 100k and someone gets blamed.
The Chinese.
Post by: whYME on May 01, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
The Chinese.Why are you inciting racist violence? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji35.png)
Post by: Lurker on May 01, 2020, 05:44:47 PM
Why are you inciting racist violence? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji35.png)
We're assigning blame, not being PC or spreading blame around. CV picks Trump. I pick China.
I think I have a stronger case.
Post by: S209 on May 01, 2020, 05:45:52 PM
We're assigning blame, not being PC or spreading blame around. CV picks Trump. I pick China.I think he was joking
I think I have a stronger case.
Post by: Lurker on May 01, 2020, 05:48:28 PM
I think he was joking
And I was being a troll. I mean, I'm right, but still trolling.
Post by: CountValentine on May 01, 2020, 05:50:53 PM
We're assigning blame, not being PC or spreading blame around. CV picks Trump. I pick China.I glad you finally understand it is China and not "Chinese".
I think I have a stronger case.
Post by: Sammyonetwo on May 01, 2020, 05:58:52 PM
Why are you inciting racist violence? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji35.png)
Stop listening to CNN and actually think logically
Post by: S209 on May 01, 2020, 06:08:20 PM
Stop listening to CNN and actually think logically
I think he was joking
Post by: CountValentine on May 02, 2020, 10:49:54 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/health-official-says-us-missed-some-chances-to-slow-virus/ar-BB13uhLN?li=BBnbfcL
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6918e2.htm?s_cid=mm6918e2_w
I also said a few times when you have this many die you need to assign blame. Looks like that is now happening. The honeymoon is over.
https://www.newsweek.com/majority-americans-want-biden-handling-coronavirus-response-economy-not-trump-poll-1501067
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-six-point-lead-donald-trump-coronavirus-poll-1501142
Post by: CountValentine on May 03, 2020, 09:49:32 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-had-two-intelligence-briefings-on-virus-in-late-january/ar-BB13ydgd?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: Euclid on May 03, 2020, 11:09:14 PM
Post by: Sam Finkelstein on May 03, 2020, 11:22:56 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/34-days-of-pandemic-inside-trumps-desperate-attempts-to-reopen-america/2020/05/02/e99911f4-8b54-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.htmlEh.
Post by: CountValentine on May 05, 2020, 12:56:30 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-even-more-contagious-than-the-original-study-says/ar-BB13CHNP?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: CountValentine on May 07, 2020, 09:20:13 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/travel-from-new-york-city-seeded-wave-of-us-outbreaks/ar-BB13J7Yx?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: CountValentine on May 07, 2020, 11:09:20 AM
https://deadline.com/2020/05/coronavirus-kayleigh-mcenany-donald-trump-media-1202928026/
Post by: whYME on May 07, 2020, 11:41:33 AM
Putting a Kool-Aid drinker as press secretary.How can they do something so terrible. People might get the impression that her job is to dispense the Kool-aid or something like that
Post by: CountValentine on May 09, 2020, 07:05:12 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/ar-BB13Qqsv
Post by: Afrages6 on May 09, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
The hits just keep on coming. Could this have been managed any worse?No
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/ar-BB13Qqsv
Post by: JMHO on May 09, 2020, 10:18:47 PM
The hits just keep on coming. Could this have been managed any worse?This would have been 'very difficult and very expensive'...better to focus on bigger and better options.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/ar-BB13Qqsv
Post by: CountValentine on May 09, 2020, 10:33:08 PM
This would have been 'very difficult and very expensive'...better to focus on bigger and better options.One of the first things that happen was we ran out of PPE.
Bigger and better options do you mean the gamechanger that was a complete flop? How many doses did they buy causing people he did need it for real and could not get it? There is another major blunder!!!
Post by: CountValentine on May 11, 2020, 06:02:02 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/trump-admin-recommends-testing-of-nursing-home-residents-and-staff/ar-BB13VaGR?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: CountValentine on May 15, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcconnell-says-he-was-wrong-to-claim-that-obama-administration-left-no-pandemic-plan/ar-BB1486oH?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: CountValentine on May 20, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newslocalpolitics/weve-been-muzzled-cdc-sources-say-white-house-putting-politics-ahead-of-science/ar-BB14m1VK?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: yeshivabucher on May 20, 2020, 04:35:37 PM
The list is getting to long.and we are probably just scratching the surface
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 30, 2020, 03:19:09 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/29/cdc-chief-defends-failure-spot-early-coronavirus-spread-us/
Post by: CountValentine on June 21, 2020, 12:11:41 AM
"All of a sudden we had to close the country. By the way, if we didn't do that, we would have had -- I would probably say four million deaths."
Post by: CountValentine on June 21, 2020, 12:19:04 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-nih-halts-clinical-trial-after-finding-no-additional-benefit-for-covid-19-patients/ar-BB15Ld4K?ocid=spartanntp
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Is this blunder finally over?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-nih-halts-clinical-trial-after-finding-no-additional-benefit-for-covid-19-patients/ar-BB15Ld4K?ocid=spartanntp
Unfortunately no. Zelenko is still on his speaking tour, and the legitimacy given to him by Trump is still very much relied upon.
Post by: AsherO on June 21, 2020, 02:39:29 PM
Unfortunately no. Zelenko is still on his speaking tour, and the legitimacy given to him by Trump is still very much relied upon.
Recent videos please?
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 02:47:08 PM
Recent videos please?
Don't have a video. May be bad info, but a shliach told me the Shluchim Office sent his manifesto to 6000 Shluchim as their official/unofficial guidance.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 21, 2020, 02:47:37 PM
Post by: AsherO on June 21, 2020, 02:51:08 PM
Don't have a video. May be bad info, but a shliach told me the Shluchim Office sent his manifesto to 6000 Shluchim as their official/unofficial guidance.
An unfortunate oversight on their part. I bet they don’t have a medical advisory board.
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 02:51:19 PM
Recent videos please?
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/281631
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 02:53:21 PM
An unfortunate oversight on their part. I bet they don’t have a medical advisory board.
Dunno, I'd bet they have access to enough high level medical professionals to make most countries jealous.
Post by: AsherO on June 21, 2020, 02:55:53 PM
Dunno, I'd bet they have access to enough high level medical professionals to make most countries jealous.
You’re putting way too much faith in them then, my guess is someone made the wrong decision. It’s okay, they’re human.
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 02:58:11 PM
You’re putting way too much faith in them then, my guess is someone made the wrong decision. It’s okay, they’re human.
A relative of mine had an issue they weren't able to diagnose locally. After a quick post on a Shluchim chat, he had it an appointment with the head of the department at Cleveland Clinic that same week. Don't underestimate their access.
But I agree about the bad decision...
Post by: yaakov35 on June 21, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
An unfortunate oversight on their part. I bet they don’t have a medical advisory board.Because on the medical experts on ddf say it doesn't work? When people say what they see with their own eyes them their dumb and don't listen to DRs and when drs say something you don't like... then they are also dumb. I don't how effective or ineffective the drug is, but I do know first hand that it saved people's lives. Frum people that live in local communities.
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 03:03:48 PM
Because on the medical experts on ddf say it doesn't work? When people say what they see with their own eyes them their dumb and don't listen to DRs and when drs say something you don't like... then they are also dumb. I don't how effective or ineffective the drug is, but I do know first hand that it saved people's lives. Frum people that live in local communities.
Are you just choosing to ignore the news that doctors have stopped giving it to patients because of the risks, or did you just not see it?
Post by: yaakov35 on June 21, 2020, 03:05:59 PM
Are you just choosing to ignore the news that doctors have stopped giving it to patients because of the risks, or did you just not see it?Latest round was they don't see any benefits. Didn't see any coherently written articles about any risks.
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 03:09:07 PM
Latest round was they don't see any benefits. Didn't see any coherently written articles about any risks.
FDA revoking it's approval work for you?
Quote
On Monday, the US FDA revoked its emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine after a large Chinese study found no benefit
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 21, 2020, 03:12:44 PM
So 0.3% of his patients died, which is consistent with the 0.5-1% mortality rate recorded in a plethora of seroprevalence studies...
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 03:28:20 PM
Invalid Tweet ID?s=20
So 0.3% of his patients died, which is consistent with the 0.5-1% mortality rate recorded in a plethora of seroprevalence studies...
I like the 84% reduction in hospitalizations stat. What's he comparing it to? And considering he's the PCP and he's telling them not to go to the hospital until the last second, it says nothing about the actual medical condition of his patients.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 21, 2020, 03:42:35 PM
I like the 84% reduction in hospitalizations stat. What's he comparing it to? And considering he's the PCP and he's telling them not to go to the hospital until the last second, it says nothing about the actual medical condition of his patients.I suspect 16% of his patients are ending up in the hospitals
Post by: AsherO on June 21, 2020, 03:47:11 PM
I suspect 16% of his patients are ending up in the hospitals
Isn’t that typical for COVID, especially if patients are being advised to stay home for as long as possible.
Post by: moish on June 21, 2020, 03:48:33 PM
Not quite. The patients he's referring to are those with symptoms.
So 0.3% of his patients died, which is consistent with the 0.5-1% mortality rate recorded in a plethora of seroprevalence studies...
Post by: moish on June 21, 2020, 03:52:12 PM
1) Took 200mg hydroxychloroquine tablets twice a day with meals.
2) Took Zinc tablets (usually 220mg)
and
3) Began this regimen within 4 – 5 days of onset of symptoms.
Every test or study or trial that failed, all were non-compliant with either # 2 or # 3. Or both.
If someone has has a study that disproves it, Id love to see it.
Post by: Lurker on June 21, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
Not quite. The patients he's referring to are those with symptoms.
He was also treating people as presumed positives with no tests, so all his numbers are bunk. Considering how many people thought they had it then, and have found out in the last month or so that they never had it... Nissei nissim that none of his patients had heart issues that reacted badly to the hydroxychloriquin.
Post by: moish on June 21, 2020, 04:56:44 PM
He was also treating people as presumed positives with no tests, so all his numbers are bunk. Considering how many people thought they had it then, and have found out in the last month or so that they never had it... Nissei nissim that none of his patients had heart issues that reacted badly to the hydroxychloriquin.Thats right. His protocol was rooted in early treatment, so couldnt afford waiting around when testing was scarce. Sure, put his numbers aside, but bottom line is that his community did not get hit like similar Jewish communities. Not sure why people love to hate on him.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 21, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
There have been no studies refuting his data.That's true AFAIK, however his whole treatment is based on Raoult in Nice who used it in hospitalized patients, so there is no evidence to suggest that it works either.
1) Took 200mg hydroxychloroquine tablets twice a day with meals.
2) Took Zinc tablets (usually 220mg)
and
3) Began this regimen within 4 – 5 days of onset of symptoms.
Every test or study or trial that failed, all were non-compliant with either # 2 or # 3. Or both.
If someone has has a study that disproves it, Id love to see it.
Not sure why people love to hate on him.Because he's a complete quack. Once he broadcasted to the world that 90% of KJ has Covid based on extrapolation from test results his saw, he lost all credibility eternally.
The medicine may work, it doesn't exonerate him.
Not quite. The patients he's referring to are those with symptoms.Says who? For all we know he's counting asymptomatic carriers that took it after exposure. His whole theory is that if you take the med it may prevent symptoms in the first place...
Sure, put his numbers aside, but bottom line is that his community did not get hit like similar Jewish communities.What makes you think so? I highly doubt that's true on an age adjusted basis.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 21, 2020, 05:29:03 PM
Quote
METHODS
We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial across the United States and parts of Canada testing hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis. We enrolled adults who had household or occupational exposure to someone with confirmed Covid-19 at a distance of less than 6 ft for more than 10 minutes while wearing neither a face mask nor an eye shield (high-risk exposure) or while wearing a face mask but no eye shield (moderate-risk exposure). Within 4 days after exposure, we randomly assigned participants to receive either placebo or hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 additional days). The primary outcome was the incidence of either laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 or illness compatible with Covid-19 within 14 days.
RESULTS
We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.
CONCLUSIONS
After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure. (Funded by David Baszucki and Jan Ellison Baszucki and others; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04308668. opens in new tab.)
Still does not refute claims re severity of symptoms.
Post by: moish on June 21, 2020, 06:04:37 PM
Last I heard, he lost one patient. All the other stuff is irrelevant. If it's indeed the case, that he lost only one patient from a pool of patients that were either high risk or presented difficulty breathing, how can you not listen to what he has to say? So yeah, he extrapolated incorrectly. Who cares? If his protocol is indeed saving lives, that's all that matters. Unless you say he's lying regarding the number of deaths. But that should be relatively easy to prove.
What makes you think so? I highly doubt that's true on an age adjusted basis.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 21, 2020, 06:17:21 PM
I would probably take HCQ if I got it; I just can’t stand him.
Post by: moish on June 21, 2020, 06:22:47 PM
Be sure to pair it with zinc. Worthless on its own as has been proven in studies.
I would probably take HCQ if I got it
Post by: CountValentine on June 23, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/i-dont-kid-trump-says-he-wasnt-joking-about-slowing-coronavirus-testing/ar-BB15SmFt?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: S209 on June 23, 2020, 12:34:48 PM
Now this moron wants to slow down testing. What is he trying to do. Get 200k deaths? >:( >:( >:(Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/i-dont-kid-trump-says-he-wasnt-joking-about-slowing-coronavirus-testing/ar-BB15SmFt?li=BBnb7Kz
Post by: yelped on June 23, 2020, 03:16:49 PM
Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.So then Trump is even more of a moron for making a fool out of himself and doubling down on that, but that's not for this thread.
Post by: S209 on June 23, 2020, 03:44:29 PM
FTFY (http://)So thenTrump iseven more ofa moronformaking a fool out of himselfand doubling down on that, but that's not for this thread.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 23, 2020, 05:47:37 PM
Quote
If the US wants fewer unwanted pregnancies they should stop pregnancy testing. Using the White House logic, without pregnancy testing there would be no unwanted babies.
Post by: CountValentine on June 23, 2020, 10:12:42 PM
Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.He never said he asked anyone. He said he wants testing slowed and he said he wasn't joking.
You really need to wake up.
Post by: S209 on June 23, 2020, 10:15:52 PM
He never said he asked anyone. He said he wants testing slowed and he said he wasn't joking.Did you not hear the original line?
You really need to wake up.
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
Post by: CountValentine on June 23, 2020, 10:24:05 PM
Did you not hear the original line?Who did he ask?
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
He said he was not joking. What part of that don't you understand? I know you like to defend this idiot but you look foolish on this one.
Post by: S209 on June 23, 2020, 10:27:50 PM
He never said he asked anyone. He said he wants testing slowed and he said he wasn't joking.
You really need to wake up.
Did you not hear the original line?
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
Who did he ask?
He said he was not joking. What part of that don't you understand? I know you like to defend this idiot but you look foolish on this one.
::)
Post by: CountValentine on June 23, 2020, 10:30:49 PM
::)You understand English? I said ne never asked anyone. HE DIDN"T by your own post.
The point is he said point blank when asked that he was not joking. You continual try and twist this and just look foolish.
Post by: Lurker on June 23, 2020, 10:32:46 PM
Carry on.
Post by: CountValentine on June 23, 2020, 10:35:37 PM
Carry on.:)
This was on 6/1: Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the most prominent members of the White House coronavirus task force, said on Monday that he has not spoken to or met with President Donald Trump in two weeks.
Post by: Lurker on June 23, 2020, 10:44:34 PM
Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.
The testimony, or Trump's comment about slowing down testing?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 02:31:19 PM
You understand English? I said ne never asked anyone. HE DIDN"T by your own post.No. That’s a lie. You said he never said he asked someone. But he did say that he asked someone. Now are you going to give up or keep digging?
The point is he said point blank when asked that he was not joking. You continual try and twist this and just look foolish.
He claimed that he said to his people to slow down testing. But he never said it. Hence it was a joke. Get it?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
The testimony, or Trump's comment about slowing down testing?Trump’s comment. I assume Fauci took his testimony seriously.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 03:32:39 PM
No. That’s a lie. You said he never said he asked someone. But he did say that he asked someone. Now are you going to give up or keep digging?Talk about head buried in the sand. Telling someone to do something is not asking them. I am bad at grammar but that one is a no brainer. ::)
He claimed that he said to his people to slow down testing. But he never said it. Hence it was a joke. Get it?
If I tell you to take out the garbage, that is not asking.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Talk about head buried in the sand. Telling someone to do something is not asking them. I am bad at grammar but that one is a no brainer. ::)
If I tell you to take out the garbage, that is not asking.
When POTUS asks you to do something, is it really a question? For additional context, in this instance, POTUS is also your boss.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 03:35:43 PM
When POTUS asks you to do something, is it really a question? For additional context, in this instance, POTUS is also your boss.The point is he never asked anyone.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 03:52:21 PM
The point is he never asked anyone.
I'm confused about what your position is here. Are you saying:
A) Trump told/asked his people to reduce testing, so he's a fool,
B) Trump didn't tell/ask his people to reduce testing, but just said he did and doubled down on it, so he's a fool
C) Trump did tell/ask people to reduce testing, but not Fauci because they haven't talked in a month, so he's a fool for telling/asking and for not talking to Fauci
C) Trump is a fool for suggesting that reducing testing would solve the country's virus issue
D) Trump is a fool
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 03:55:28 PM
I'm confused about what your position is here. Are you saying:Where is all the above option?
A) Trump told/asked his people to reduce testing, so he's a fool,
B) Trump didn't tell/ask his people to reduce testing, but just said he did and doubled down on it, so he's a fool
C) Trump did tell/ask people to reduce testing, but not Fauci because they haven't talked in a month, so he's a fool for telling/asking and for not talking to Fauci
C) Trump is a fool for suggesting that reducing testing would solve the country's virus issue
D) Trump is a fool
Or how about these options?
A) Fool
B) Fool
C) Fool
D) Fool
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 04:01:00 PM
Where is all the above option?
Or how about these options?
A) Fool
B) Fool
C) Fool
D) Fool
I got the fool part, I'm just trying to understand where you and @S209 differ on what happened.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 04:03:51 PM
The point is he never asked anyone.Right. But he said he did. So he was joking.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 04:04:54 PM
Right. But he said he did. So he was joking.Where did he ask anyone?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
I got the fool part, I'm just trying to understand where you and @S209 differ on what happened.He is saying Trump never asked Dr F. How could he when he never asked anyone.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 04:09:59 PM
He is saying Trump never asked Dr F. How could he when he never asked anyone.
So he never asked Dr. Fauci or anyone else, so when he said he asked his people to slow down testing, he was joking, even though he insists he wasn't. And he's a fool.
We all on the same page now?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 04:16:59 PM
So he never asked Dr. Fauci or anyone else, so when he said he asked his people to slow down testing, he was joking, even though he insists he wasn't. And he's a fool.He didn't ASK anyone. Here it is from @S209
We all on the same page now?
Did you not hear the original line?I have no idea who his people are that he said it to but there was no question asked. He also said he was not joking.
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
Now @S209 wants to muddy the waters with Dr F who has nothing to do with it.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 04:23:06 PM
So he never asked [or told] Dr. Fauci or anyone else [about slowing down testing], so when he said he asked his people to slow down testing, he was joking, even though he insists he wasn't. And he's a fool [who contradicts himself and lies publicly].
We all on the same page now?
FTFM/FTFY. Better?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
He didn't ASK anyone. Here it is from @S209 I have no idea who his people are that he said it to but there was no question asked. He also said he was not joking.Requesting an underling to carry out your orders can be referred to as both “asking” or “telling” them what to do. There is NO difference. You’re being ridiculous and I hope you realize it.
Now @S209 wants to muddy the waters with Dr F who has nothing to do with it.
Dr. Fauci is the official in charge of implementing the COVID response, so I’m pretty sure anything being requested of “his people” re: testing would have to go through Fauci, who testified that *neither he nor anyone he knows of* was ever told to slow down testing.
Nobody is muddying waters but yourself.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 04:53:44 PM
He didn't ASK anyone. Here it is from @S209 I have no idea who his people are that he said it to but there was no question asked. He also said he was not joking.When you ask someone to do something there is no question involved. You are *requesting* something. This is elementary school Language Arts class.
Now @S209 wants to muddy the waters with Dr F who has nothing to do with it.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 05:14:52 PM
Requesting an underling to carry out your orders can be referred to as both “asking” or “telling” them what to do. There is NO difference. You’re being ridiculous and I hope you realize it.Wow the pretzel you are trying to make. Ask and tell are totally different. Now if you want to look foolish twisting yourself in a pretzel go right ahead.
Dr. Fauci is the official in charge of implementing the COVID response, so I’m pretty sure anything being requested of “his people” re: testing would have to go through Fauci, who testified that *neither he nor anyone he knows of* was ever told to slow down testing.
Nobody is muddying waters but yourself.
Dr F probably has not talked to Trump in the last month. You invoked him without even knowing if he talked to Trump.
The fact is Trump in his own words said he was not joking. You try and bring in someone else secondhand when we have firsthand information. Then you claim I am being ridiculous. ::)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 05:58:10 PM
Wow the pretzel you are trying to make. Ask and tell are totally different. Now if you want to look foolish twisting yourself in a pretzel go right ahead.Just to be clear. Are you saying that the following sentences are “totally different”?
Dr F probably has not talked to Trump in the last month. You invoked him without even knowing if he talked to Trump.
The fact is Trump in his own words said he was not joking. You try and bring in someone else secondhand when we have firsthand information. Then you claim I am being ridiculous. ::)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Nobody is twisting anything, I honestly didn’t realize that your issue was with not being able to understand the language. I thought it was more fundamental to the argument. This is just amateur.
ETA: @CountValentine let’s see if you can answer a simple question
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 06:18:11 PM
ETA: @CountValentine let’s see if you can answer a simple questionOf course they are completely different. Telling someone to do something is not asking them to do something. English 101.
Do you tell your wife to do things or do you ask her. :P
This is besides the main point. You are confusing the issue by bringing in secondhand info when we have it firsthand.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Of course they are completely different. Telling someone to do something is not asking them to do something. English 101.If to you they are totally different sentences then we’re at an impasse until a third party linguist decides the matter. @Yehuda57 ? Do we have any linguists on board?
Do you tell your wife to do things or do you ask her. :P
This is besides the main point. You are confusing the issue by bringing in secondhand info when we have it firsthand.
Trump said something tongue in cheek. How do we know it was tongue in cheek? Because Fauci testified that it wasn’t true. Him doubling down does nothing for me. It’s a joke.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 06:29:58 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-administration-ending-support-for-drive-thru-testing-sites/ar-BB15VtdC?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 06:33:21 PM
If to you they are totally different sentences then we’re at an impasse until a third party linguist decides the matter.If you need someone to say ask/tell are not the same then impasse is not the problem.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 06:37:58 PM
When POTUS asks you to do something, is it really a question? For additional context, in this instance, POTUS is also your boss.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:18:37 PM
It was a joke? ::)Umm. It was always set to expire now. Texas in particular said they do not want the federal states but are working on a better testing process. I’m unaware of the other states’ opinions but are you insinuating that FEMA is dismantling the sites as a method of lowering testing numbers? Keep drinking the Kool Aid :P
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-administration-ending-support-for-drive-thru-testing-sites/ar-BB15VtdC?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
If you need someone to say ask/tell are not the same then impasse is not the problem.You’re digging your grave deeper. I was being kind by equating our sides and offering judgement to a third party.
Spoiler alert: It’s you in the wrong.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:22:18 PM
You’re digging your grave deeper. I was being kind by equating our sides and offering judgement to a third party.Would you like to bet they mean the same? Money goes to charity.
Spoiler alert: It’s you with the comprehension issue.
I am now going to be blunt. You have lost your mind if you think those two words mean the same thing!!! :P
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:28:13 PM
Would you like to bet they mean the same? Money goes to charity.The words can mean different things in context. The two sentences I offered meant the same thing. Sure I’ll gladly give $10 to the coronavirus charity campaign of your choice from the other thread if someone we agree to judge neutrally says that those sentences don’t mean the same thing.
I am now going to be blunt. You have lost your mind if you think those two words mean the same thing!!! :P
Here are options that work for me: @Dan @Lurker @Yehuda57 @AsherO @AJK @jj1000 @YitzyS @Euclid @yuneeq @yelped @PlatinumGuy @Ergel (names that come off the top of my head)
Pick any one or more to be judge.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:33:31 PM
The words can mean different things in context. The two sentences I offered meant the same thing. Sure I’ll gladly give $10 to the coronavirus charity campaign of your choice from the other thread if someone we agree to judge neutrally says that those sentences don’t mean the same thing.Here is the exact question:
Here are options that work for me: @Dan @Lurker @Yehuda57 @AsherO @AJK @jj1000 @YitzyS @Euclid @yuneeq @yelped @PlatinumGuy @Ergel (names that come off the top of my head)
Pick any one or more to be judge.
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:34:02 PM
The words can mean different things in context.Here we go with the pretzels. There are two words, ask and told. They don't mean the same thing.
Do you want to bet on that or not?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:35:24 PM
Here is the exact question:You would have to know what is in the persons mind. That can't be done but nice try with the pretzel. :P
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:36:12 PM
Here we go with the pretzels. There are two words, ask and told. They don't mean the same thing.That wasn’t the question, the question was if the sentences mean the same thing. You’re the one twisting into pretzels. The question and answer before was very clear and simple.
Do you want to bet on that or not?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:36:49 PM
You would have to know what is in the persons mind. That can't be done but nice try with the pretzel. :POh so now they mean different things depending on what the person meant? The question is what the sentences mean. In English.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:37:36 PM
You would have to know what is in the persons mind. That can't be done but nice try with the pretzel. :PSo to be clear, are you retracting what you said before that they are “totally different”?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:41:18 PM
So to be clear, are you retracting what you said before that they are “totally different”?You lost your mind. The only difference is the two words. They are totally different. Now we can play your games on what "totally" means.
Ask your wife if they are different. When she says they are then tell her they are not. :P
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Oh so now they mean different things depending on what the person meant? The question is what the sentences mean. In English.In English the words have two different meanings. I don't care what the person saying them thinks they mean or the person hearing them thinks they mean. All I care about is if in English they mean the same, they don't!!! Now you want to bet or not?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:44:39 PM
You lost your mind. The only difference is the two words. They are totally different. Now we can play your games on what "totally" means.Words are funny things. They change meaning based on context. Like how change can mean to transform, transformation, or small coins. Fortunately the context in this case was very clear, as we were discussing a very specific sentence.
Ask your wife if they are different. When she says they are then tell her they are not. :P
How’s your pretzel going?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:45:29 PM
In English the words have two different meanings. I don't care what the person saying them thinks they mean or the person hearing them thinks they mean. All I care about is if in English they mean the same, they don't!!! Now you want to bet or not?In English words take on different meanings based on context. What is so hard to understand about that? When they are both being used to replace the word “request”, they mean the same thing.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:45:56 PM
In English the words have two different meanings. I don't care what the person saying them thinks they mean or the person hearing them thinks they mean. All I care about is if in English they mean the same, they don't!!! Now you want to bet or not?Does change mean to transform or does it mean small coins?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:47:17 PM
How’s your pretzel going?Telling or asking have different meanings in the same context.
I asked him to take out the garbage.
I told him to take out the garbage.
They mean two different things. You want to bet or not.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:49:05 PM
Does change mean to transform or does it mean small coins?I asked him to donate his change.
I told him to donate his change.
Same exact context but different meanings. You want to bet now?
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
But I kinda want a soft pretzel now.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:49:31 PM
Telling or asking have different meanings in the same context.Yes. In your example they mean the same thing (assuming “I” is “him”s boss and is asking “him” to take out the garbage in the course of his work for “I”). Let’s bet. Which judge of those I nominated do you choose?
I asked him to take out the garbage.
I told him to take out the garbage.
They mean two different things. You want to bet or not.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:49:58 PM
Man, the last time I saw this much back and forth over the meaning of words in English was that little "Chinese virus" thing... 8)He should shut up or put up! :)
But I kinda want a soft pretzel now.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:50:39 PM
Please choose the judge, I set the terms earlier. $10 from the loser to the Covid victim page of their choice.
Here is the exact question:
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 07:54:14 PM
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:54:30 PM
Yes. In your example they mean the same thing (assuming “I” is “him”s boss and is asking “him” to take out the garbage in the course of his work for “I”). Let’s bet. Which judge of those I nominated do you choose?I am sorry but you are acting like a child. There is no assumption. They are simple English sentences which you can't comprehend.
Ask someone with knowledge of English if ask/told mean the same thing.
Then come back or put up or shut up!!! :)
You are trying to take @Lurker position since you dug yourself such a big hole.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 07:56:17 PM
I am sorry but you are acting like a child. There is no assumption. They are simple English sentences which you can't comprehend.Umm. I literally took you up on your bet. I asked you a question. You answered. I am telling you you’re wrong and am ready to bet on it. The terms are clear. PUOSU.
Ask someone with knowledge of English if ask/told mean the same thing.
Then come back or put up or shut up!!! :)
You are trying to take @Lurker position since you dug yourself such a big hole.
What are you even rambling about? This was very clearly about a very specific sentence all along. Quit whining and choose the judge :P
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 07:59:55 PM
You know you've spent too much time on DDF when you have a rule and a position named after you...That happens a lot around here since some members can't think for themselves. I would be a millionaire if I have a nickel for every time one of my phrases were used since they can't think on their own.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:02:05 PM
That happens a lot around here since some members can't think for themselves. I would be a millionaire if I have a nickel for every time one of my phrases were used since they can't think of their own.Is that your way of saying your backing down from the bet? Got it.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 08:02:35 PM
That happens a lot around here since some members can't think for themselves. I would be a millionaire if I have a nickel for every time one of my phrases were used since they can't think of their own.
If I had a nickel for every one of the phrases you've appropriated and claimed as your own, I'd have more nickels than you.
Just the facts, Jack.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:03:29 PM
Is that your way of saying your backing down from the bet? Got it.Keep up your childish posts and I guarantee you won't like my responses.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:04:05 PM
If I had a nickel for every one of the phrases you've appropriated and claimed as your own, I'd have more nickels than you.If I use them first here then I lay claim to them.
Just the facts, Jack.
You owe me a nickel.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:04:12 PM
Keep up your childish posts and I guarantee you won't like my responses.Why are you not picking a judge? Scared? It’s going to charity don’t worry.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:06:28 PM
Keep up your childish posts and I guarantee you won't like my responses.I must say I expected better from you. I thought you don’t back down from a challenge.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 08:07:12 PM
If I use them first here then I lay claim to them.
You owe me a nickel.
Playground rules. First guy on the court sets the rules, and the hamster's incarnations lap me more than a few times, so tough sh!t for me.
*I lay claim to "tough sh!t"
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:10:17 PM
Why are you not picking a judge? Scared? It’s going to charity don’t worry.Because you picked all Jews. When it comes to money I don't trust Jews. I seen how Jews try and come up with religious reasons to back out of what they owe. They try and come up with religious reasons to back out when they commit to selling things like mint coins.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Post by: yungermanchik on June 24, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
Yes. In your example they mean the same thing (assuming “I” is “him”s boss and is asking “him” to take out the garbage in the course of his work for “I”).Absolutely! If I say to my daughter, "could you please clean up your toys?" It is technically a question so I can say "I asked her to clean up" but in actuality, it is a nice way of telling her what she has to do, so I can also say, "I told her to clean up" and it would be true.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 08:12:01 PM
Because you picked all Jews. When it comes to money I don't trust Jews. I seen how Jews try and come up with religious reasons to back out of what they owe. They try and come up with religious reasons to back out when they commit to selling things like mint coins.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Wow. Not very woke, man.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:14:07 PM
Absolutely! If I say to my daughter, "could you please clean up your toys?" It is technically a question so I can say "I asked her to clean up" but in actuality, it is a nice way of telling her what she has to do, so I can also say, "I told her to clean up" and it would be true.So when you ask your spouse to do something it is a nice way to tell them to do it?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:14:34 PM
Wow. Not very woke, man.Just the facts, Jack!
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:17:05 PM
So when you ask your spouse to do something it is a nice way to tell them to do it?If you ask your spouse *if* she can do something then no. If you ask her *to* do something then yes.
This is assuming you are your spouse‘s superior, of course. Because that would be a similar example.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Just the facts, Jack!
Dunno 'bout that. He gave you some options for judges, and you essentially just called them all dishonest because you dealt with some dishonest Jews before. I used to work in a scrap yard. Want me to tell you about the junkie Catholics?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:18:29 PM
Because you picked all Jews. When it comes to money I don't trust Jews. I seen how Jews try and come up with religious reasons to back out of what they owe. They try and come up with religious reasons to back out when they commit to selling things like mint coins.Is that what you meant by “I won’t like your responses”? Because that doesn’t bother me at all.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
If you’d like to choose a non Jewish judge, by all means. Nominate a few and I’ll select one. I’m afraid you’ll have to live with the fact that you’ll still be trusting me to follow through with the donation should I lose (which I won’t).
Post by: yungermanchik on June 24, 2020, 08:19:34 PM
So when you ask your spouse to do something it is a nice way to tell them to do it?I was talking about my two-year-old daughter. why are you bringing in my spouse?!
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:20:26 PM
Dunno 'bout that. He gave you some options for judges, and you essentially just called them all dishonest because you dealt with some dishonest Jews before. I used to work in a scrap yard. Want me to tell you about the junkie Catholics?Sure lets here about them. Did they adhere to strict religious laws?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:21:14 PM
Just the facts, Jack!You owe @Lurker a nickel
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 08:22:52 PM
Sure lets here about them. Did they adhere to strict religious laws?
About as strictly as dishonest Jews. Came in on Ash Wednesday looking the part, too.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:23:07 PM
I was talking about my two-year-old daughter. why are you bringing in my spouse?!I have no idea how a child would take what you said. I know how an adult (spouse) would take it.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
Came in on Ash Wednesday looking the part, too.That means nothing.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 08:28:18 PM
That means nothing.
You know what I'm saying, though, so let's not play dumb. I was on the list of people you decided were dishonest just because you had a bad experience with someone who believes some of the same things I do. Dan, JJ, and a bunch of other good people were, too. Kinda lost your moral high ground there. Doesn't paint a pretty picture. Keep the nickel.
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 08:28:41 PM
BUT... I find this argument extremely ironic. The last time I heard this argument, it was the Democrats who said that ask=tell, while it was the Republicans who said that ask≠tell.
See this short clip. Maybe it will jog your memory...
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4888976/user-clip-asktell
Post by: yungermanchik on June 24, 2020, 08:30:37 PM
I have no idea how a child would take what you said. I know how an adult (spouse) would take it.But if I told my spouse what happened and she happened to have overheard she would NOT say, "No, you didn't tell her, you asked her" because when the one you are talking to is required to listen, asking is just a nicer way of telling.
My spouse is not REQUIRED to do my will.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:34:41 PM
On the actual question - my opinion wasn't asked-1
Here are options that work for me: @YitzyS
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:36:10 PM
On the actual question - my opinion wasn't asked, and I honestly didn't think deeply enough into it to offer a response.Not exactly the same but close enough :)
BUT... I find this argument extremely ironic. The last time I heard this argument, it was the Democrats who said that ask=tell, while it was the Republicans who said that ask≠tell.
See this short clip. Maybe it will jog your memory...
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4888976/user-clip-asktell
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 08:36:37 PM
-1Meant to say that I was never appointed by both sides...
Believe me, I stayed far enough from this thread that I would never dream of opening my mouth here without someone tagging me first...
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 08:37:38 PM
Not exactly the same but close enough :)Agreed. He's talking about his military training. But the irony of it is tremendous. And the Republicans grilled him for that line...
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
Meant to say that I was never appointed by both sides...Laying low and keeping your nose clean back in the JS Politics thread?
Believe me, I stayed far enough from this thread that I would never dream of opening my mouth here without someone tagging me first...
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:45:04 PM
Ask - you give them a choice
Tell- you take away the choice
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 24, 2020, 08:45:18 PM
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 08:49:12 PM
Hopefully even a firstgrader can understand the difference. ;)When a superior asks their underling to do something, they are essentially telling them politely to do it.
Ask - you give them a choice
Tell- you take away the choice
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:52:55 PM
Hopefully even a firstgrader can understand the difference. ;)So after claiming you want to bet and me happily agreeing to do so you’re still trying to beg your case? Why not man up and accept the challenge?
Ask - you give them a choice
Tell- you take away the choice
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 08:56:50 PM
When a superior asks their underling to do something, they are essentially telling them politely to do it.Wrong, I have been asked many times by my boss to do something and politely said no.
It is a sign of respect to ask in those situations.
Perfect example: Can you work overtime this Friday? No I already have plans.
That is why the words don't have the same meaning in the same context. English 101. :)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 08:58:15 PM
Wrong, I have been asked many times by my boss to do something and politely said no.There they are not asking you do something. They are asking you *if* you are willing to do something.
It is a sign of respect to ask in those situations.
Perfect example: Can you work overtime this Friday? No I already have plans.
That is why the words don't have the same meaning in the same context. English 101. :)
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:00:15 PM
There they are not asking you do something. They are asking you *if* you are willing to do something.So you were not even there and you are going to tell me what he meant. ::)
Post by: yungermanchik on June 24, 2020, 09:03:13 PM
Wrong, I have been asked many times by my boss to do something and politely said no.Again, this is not something you are REQUIRED to do in your capacity of "underling." but if it was during regular work hours and your boss "asks" you to start working on a project, is that really asking or telling?
It is a sign of respect to ask in those situations.
Perfect example: Can you work overtime this Friday? No I already have plans.
That is why the words don't have the same meaning in the same context. English 101. :)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 09:04:49 PM
So you were not even there and you are going to tell me what he meant. ::)According to this (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ask) “demand” is a hyponym of “ask”
It was very obvious what he meant in that context. Assuming I need to be there to understand the words does your case no favors. As I have repeatedly said I invite you to ask any third party their opinion. I even offered to put money on it. Until then keep drinking your Kool Aid.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:07:38 PM
Again, this is not something you are REQUIRED to do in your capacity of "underling." but if it was during regular work hours and your boss "asks" you to start working on a project, is that really asking or telling?It is asking if he asks. I am not a sheep and I speak up. Don't ask (choice) me to do something when you really meant to tell (no choice) me to do it. I can't believe this is even a question.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:09:50 PM
It was very obvious what he meant in that context. Assuming I need to be there to understand the words does your case no favors. As I have repeatedly said I invite you to ask any third party their opinion. I even offered to put money on it. Until then keep drinking your Kool Aid.Ok big mouth. I will ask my sister who has been an English teacher and principal for 40+ years. She also has been a Catholic nun for 50+ years. PUOST!!!
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 09:17:01 PM
Ok big mouth. I will ask my sister who has been an English teacher and principal for 40+ years. She also has been a Catholic nun for 50+ years. PUOST!!!Forgive me if I suspect your sister of bias. Just wouldn’t be fair to you ;)
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:18:04 PM
Forgive me if I suspect your sister of bias. Just wouldn’t be fair to you ;)That's ok I will take the chance. You betting or chickening out.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 09:19:29 PM
That's ok I will take the chance. You betting or chickening out.Umm how about we find someone somewhere in between your sister (your choice) and any random forum member (my choice). Not to mention your sister doesn’t have an account here so I’d be taking your word for it altogether, and trusting you to phrase the question as I wrote it out.
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 09:21:45 PM
Umm how about we find someone somewhere in between your sister (your choice) and any random forum member (my choice). Not to mention your sister doesn’t have an account here so I’d be taking your word for it altogether, and trusting you to phrase the question as I wrote it out.I think you can get an honest answer here on the forums by working out the exact wording of the question together, and then posting it in a new thread, with no mention who said what and what the entire back and forth was. Maybe even put a poll, though members who saw this thread should refrain from voting.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:24:08 PM
Umm how about we find someone somewhere in between your sister (your choice) and any random forum member (my choice). Not to mention your sister doesn’t have an account here so I’d be taking your word for it altogether, and trusting you to phrase the question as I wrote it out.We are not phrasing anything. It is simple as if ask/tell have the same meaning in the same sentence. We are not getting into the mindset of the person asking/telling or the mindset of the person on the receiving end. We have no way no know their thinking and just gives you a way to not pay.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:27:30 PM
I think you can get an honest answer here on the forums by working out the exact wording of the question together,I have been told over and over Jews treat other Jews the same as family. I suggest a qualified person and he has an issue that she is family member when every person he suggested is also a family member in his eyes.
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 09:29:35 PM
I have been told over and over Jews treat other Jews the same as family. I suggest a qualified person and he has an issue that she is family member when every person he suggested is also a family member in his eyes.My suggestion was a blind test. Nobody will know who said which opinion.
Which would work with your sister, if you present it without saying which opinion is yours.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:31:59 PM
My suggestion was a blind test. Nobody will know who said which opinion.Of course I am not going to tell her what my opinion is.
Which would work with your sister, if you present it without saying which opinion is yours.
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
DDFers treat other DDFers the same as family.FTFY
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:35:27 PM
FTFYI don't ban my family. :)
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 09:51:18 PM
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 09:51:51 PM
Talk about being totally dishonest. >:(What was dishonest?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 09:52:46 PM
We are not phrasing anything. It is simple as if ask/tell have the same meaning in the same sentence. We are not getting into the mindset of the person asking/telling or the mindset of the person on the receiving end. We have no way no know their thinking and just gives you a way to not pay.That’s your new version of the facts, but that’s not what the question was. The question was a very specific one about a very specific statement made by a very specific person.
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:02:23 PM
That’s your new version of the facts, but that’s not what the question was. The question was a very specific one about a very specific statement made by a very specific person.You made up the question after you twisted yourself in a pretzel. The way you worded the poll shows how dishonest you are.
To answer the poll you have to know what was in Trumps mind, good luck. This is a simple question if ask/tell mean the same thing. I see you conceded you were wrong on them being the same meaning and moved on to the pretzel. ::)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
You made up the question after you twisted yourself in a pretzel. The way you worded the poll shows how dishonest you are.Really. Please do quote me where I said that was the question. I won’t hold my breath.
To answer the poll you have to know what was in Trumps mind, good luck. This is a simple question if ask/tell mean the same thing. I see you conceded you were wrong on them being the same meaning and moved on to the pretzel. ::)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:14:54 PM
Requesting an underling to carry out your orders can be referred to as both “asking” or “telling” them what to do. There is NO difference. You’re being ridiculous and I hope you realize it.
Dr. Fauci is the official in charge of implementing the COVID response, so I’m pretty sure anything being requested of “his people” re: testing would have to go through Fauci, who testified that *neither he nor anyone he knows of* was ever told to slow down testing.
Nobody is muddying waters but yourself.
Here’s my actual question, to which you answered that they *are* different
Just to be clear. Are you saying that the following sentences are “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Nobody is twisting anything, I honestly didn’t realize that your issue was with not being able to understand the language. I thought it was more fundamental to the argument. This is just amateur.
ETA: @CountValentine let’s see if you can answer a simple question
You’re doing great :)
Post by: YitzyS on June 24, 2020, 10:15:57 PM
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:16:59 PM
Hope there are no DDFers here with Celiac, as the gluten from all those pretzels must be overwhelming them.Gluten free pretzels are a thing
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:21:45 PM
Really. Please do quote me where I said that was the question. I won’t hold my breath.What part don't you understand of you made up the question after you twisted yourself into a pretzel? Here is your made up question.
Here is the exact question:From the beginning I said ask/tell do not mean the same thing. If they did mean the same thing then no matter what example we use should not matter. You were dishonest by slanting the poll. You already conceded they don't mean the same by having to slant the poll.
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
It case you missed it:
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:23:49 PM
You’re doing great :)You are the one who tried to make it about context after you had no response when I said they were different. Like I said you slanted the poll because you knew you were wrong.
It case you missed it:
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
What part don't you understand of you made up the question after you twisted yourself into a pretzel? Here is your made up question.From the beginning I said ask/tell do not mean the same thing. If they did mean the same thing then no matter what example we use should not matter. You were dishonest by slanting the poll. You already conceded they don't mean the same by having to slant the poll.No, I never once maintained that the two mean the exact same thing in all circumstances. It should be fairly easy for you to show me where I’ve said that. You can’t, because I never did. Only a moron would think ask and tell are the same thing always.
It case you missed it:
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
That said, in the context of how I was using “asked” and “told”, the words were interchangeable. You can revise history all you’d like, but remember you’re putting words in my mouth. Quoting posts is easy enough that if you were right you’d be able to show it.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:25:31 PM
You are the one who tried to make it about context after you had no response when I said they were different. Like I said you slanted the poll because you knew you were wrong.Please tell me how I slanted the poll? Which part would you have preferred not be part of it? I’ll remind you one more time, you answered this
It case you missed it:
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
Just to be clear. Are you saying that the following sentences are “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
With this
Of course they are completely different. Telling someone to do something is not asking them to do something.
Post by: Lurker on June 24, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
Which part would you leave preferred not be part of it?
The dishonest Jews.
Post by: yelped on June 24, 2020, 10:27:55 PM
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:28:41 PM
It case you missed it:I ask this several times.
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:29:32 PM
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?I want my $10 to my charity, Salvation Army. :)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:30:46 PM
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?Honestly I’m just trying to show how the good Count’s intellectual dishonesty works against him as often as it does for him should anyone have the stamina to finish the argument. He is sometimes right and others are disingenuous when they debate him as well but he is just as guilty.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:31:46 PM
I ask this several times.And? Did I disagree that ask and tell *can* have different definitions? If I did, please point to a post of mine that says so. If you don’t, we can just include this in “arguments of yours that weren’t fully thought through”
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:33:54 PM
And? Did I disagree that ask and tell *can* have different definitions? If I did, please point to a post of mine that says so. If you don’t, we can just include this in “arguments of yours that weren’t fully thought through”That wasn't the question. Do you understand one has a choice and the other does not? Not can but does!
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:36:49 PM
That wasn't the question. Do you understand one has a choice and the other does not? Not can but does!In certain contexts, correct. Not in the context we were discussing. What’s your point? This is what we refer to as a straw man- you are presenting an argument that nobody disagrees with.
I have you on the record as saying no to an actual question I asked. I think you’re wrong. Can you say the same about me?
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:39:20 PM
I know they’re just Jews so their opinions don’t count but it sure seems like I‘m winning
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:41:10 PM
I have you on the record as saying no to an actual question I asked. I think you’re wrong. Can you say the same about me?I gave a straight answer to your question. You keep being dishonest hedging your answer.
Start a poll
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Two choice, agree or disagree. You will get blown out of the water and you know it.
The way you worded the poll you have to know what was in the persons mind when they made the statement. You have no way to know.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:43:15 PM
I gave a straight answer to your question. You keep being dishonest hedging your answer.So why does everyone seem confident in their answer? “Debatable” is an option in the poll.
Start a poll
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Two choice, agree or disagree. You will get blown out of the water and you know it.
The way you worded the poll you have to know what was in the persons mind when they made the statement. You have no way to know.
Don’t forget that is the EXACT same question I posed to you. You’re changing. The question you’re posing now was never a matter of disagreement.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:45:28 PM
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 10:47:21 PM
So why does everyone seem confident in their answer? “Debatable” is an option in the poll.If someone uses words and assigns wrong meanings to them that does not change the real meaning of the words. Anytime you ask someone to do something you are giving them a choice. You can twist yourself in any shape pretzel you want but that does not change the factual meaning of the word.
Don’t forget that is the EXACT same question I posed to you. You’re changing. The question you’re posing now was never a matter of disagreement.
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 10:48:28 PM
If someone uses words and assigns wrong meanings to them that does not change the real meaning of the words. Anytime you ask someone to do something you are giving them a choice. You can twist yourself in any shape pretzel you want but that does not change the factual meaning of the word.So why does everybody agree with me if you’re so sure your right?
Post by: Dan on June 24, 2020, 10:59:40 PM
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?+1
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 11:01:26 PM
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?You need to use @Something Fishy trick to get more posts per page ;)
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 11:03:08 PM
So why does everybody agree with me if you’re so sure your right?They agree with your slanted dishonest poll.
You avoid the point I made about using words wrong or trying to tell what is in the persons mind when using them.
You already conceded they one is a choice and the other isn't so by your own admission they can't mean the same.
Teacher do I have a choice or not. They are both the same thing. ROFLMAO!
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 11:38:05 PM
They agree with your slanted dishonest poll.Does this make sense in your head?
You avoid the point I made about using words wrong or trying to tell what is in the persons mind when using them.
You already conceded they one is a choice and the other isn't so by your own admission they can't mean the same.
Teacher do I have a choice or not. They are both the same thing. ROFLMAO!
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 11:39:27 PM
They agree with your slanted dishonest poll.
You avoid the point I made about using words wrong or trying to tell what is in the persons mind when using them.
You already conceded they one is a choice and the other isn't so by your own admission they can't mean the same.
Teacher do I have a choice or not. They are both the same thing. ROFLMAO!
Please tell me how I slanted the poll? Which part would you have preferred not be part of it?
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 11:40:16 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Post by: S209 on June 24, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)So basically, you can’t? Got it
Post by: CountValentine on June 24, 2020, 11:59:06 PM
So basically, you can’t? Got itGo back and read.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Post by: Ergel on June 25, 2020, 07:49:51 AM
Post by: CountValentine on June 25, 2020, 07:52:17 AM
I'm shocked that the dumbest thread in this board does not have to do with a COVID denierWhat are you talking about. Covid-19 is a witch-hunt created by the liberal left. :)
Post by: S209 on June 25, 2020, 10:44:36 AM
What are you talking about. Covid-19 is a witch-hunt created by the liberal left. :)That was the impeachment hoax
Post by: Yehuda57 on June 25, 2020, 02:10:54 PM
The words can mean different things in context. The two sentences I offered meant the same thing. Sure I’ll gladly give $10 to the coronavirus charity campaign of your choice from the other thread if someone we agree to judge neutrally says that those sentences don’t mean the same thing.
So I haven't been on DDF lately unless I have been pinged, and lo and behold, I got pinged! After a few seconds trying to get the context, my decision to stop hanging out here was vindicated.
Peace out
Post by: YitzyS on June 25, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
So I haven't been on DDF lately unless I have been pinged, and lo and behold, I got pinged! After a few seconds trying to get the context, my decision to stop hanging out here was vindicated.@Yehuda57, please don't judge all threads by the action of few. I know that institutional stereotyping exists, but it's wrong. There are many upstanding threads on these forums, places where you would gain both insight and knowledge from visiting them and hanging out on them. Don't look at the most pretzel-filled thread and judge the rest of them by it.
Peace out
Please peace back in.
Post by: CountValentine on June 25, 2020, 07:34:29 PM
So I haven't been on DDF lately unless I have been pinged, and lo and behold, I got pinged! After a few seconds trying to get the context, my decision to stop hanging out here was vindicated.I would take your pinger off the hook. ;)
Peace out
Post by: CountValentine on June 28, 2020, 04:19:58 PM
How many more massive blunders can they make?
Post by: CountValentine on June 28, 2020, 07:09:04 PM
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/pence-says-us-made-remarkable-progress-on-coronavirus/1891492
Post by: Dan on June 28, 2020, 07:10:52 PM
When they do speak they are in fantasy land.We're #1! 'Murica!
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/pence-says-us-made-remarkable-progress-on-coronavirus/1891492
Post by: Ergel on July 01, 2020, 02:09:58 AM
Post by: yaakov35 on July 01, 2020, 02:21:11 AM
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"Thousands? While your at it make it millions.. @joebiden. If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 07:32:22 AM
Thousands? While your at it make it millions.. @joebiden. If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.Are you saying the whole scientific community is wrong on wearing masks? ::)
Going to have to get a new catch phrase for you since you are way past the Kool-Aid stage. You are even past my signature.
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 07:33:32 AM
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"There is a lot of things you can argue if what he did was wrong or to late but this isn't one of them!
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on July 01, 2020, 07:36:16 AM
If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.Do you honestly believe the stupidity you peddle?
Post by: Lurker on July 01, 2020, 10:13:42 AM
Thousands? While your at it make it millions.. @joebiden. If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.
Who's wearing masks in Israel? They're tracing cases back to weddings and other mass gatherings.
Also, since when has anyone claimed masks are 100% effective? They aren't. That doesn't make them pointless.
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 01, 2020, 11:01:15 AM
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"No politician or spokesperson wears them while speaking. Not an effective form of communication.
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 11:07:30 AM
No politician or spokesperson wears them while speaking. Not an effective form of communication.Funny as I see news reporters wearing them all the time while reporting.
You want to support this moron that is your choice but please stop spewing this BS!!!
Post by: YitzyS on July 01, 2020, 11:16:36 AM
Funny as I see news reporters wearing them all the time while reporting.Emphasis added.
You want to support this moron that is your choice but please stop spewing this BS!!!
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/cnn-reporter-caught-removing-face-mask-when-she-thought-camera-was-off/
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 11:32:38 AM
Emphasis added.That has nothing to do with the point you can communicate effectively wearing a mask. Using that as an excuse is pure BS.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/cnn-reporter-caught-removing-face-mask-when-she-thought-camera-was-off/
Post by: etech0 on July 01, 2020, 11:37:39 AM
That has nothing to do with the point you can communicate effectively wearing a mask. Using that as an excuse is pure BS.Have you tried talking on the phone to someone who is wearing a mask?
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 12:37:14 PM
Have you tried talking on the phone to someone who is wearing a mask?Monday I was in the vets parking lot dropping my dog off. Have my mask on when they called. I could talk just fine and they understood me just fine.
Next question? :)
Post by: etech0 on July 01, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
Monday I was in the vets parking lot dropping my dog off. Have my mask on when they called. I could talk just fine and they understood me just fine.Maybe your mask was better than the one the person I was talking to wore. Could barely hear anything.
Next question? :)
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 12:43:10 PM
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"+1
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving Shiur or davening (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, lemasa it’s not bakovodig.”
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 01:21:52 PM
+1Imagine looking towards Trump's actions to delineate "bakovodig".
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving Shiur or davening (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, lemasa it’s not bakovodig.”
(Most frum Trump supporters (that I'm aware of) support him despite his most definitely non-bakovodig antics.)
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Imagine looking towards Trump's actions to delineate "bakovodig".Correct, but they are inferring from his actions in this case that he doesn’t believe it’s “presidential”, and then extrapolate to themselves.
(Most frum Trump supporters (that I'm aware of) support him despite his most definitely non-bakovodig antics.)
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 02:58:06 PM
If it was up to Trump his 30-35% base would not wear seatbelts.
Post by: Ergel on July 02, 2020, 07:47:48 AM
Who's wearing masks in Israel? They're tracing cases back to weddings and other mass gatherings.Was at an American wedding last night in Yerushalayim (for a short time). I'd say about 85% mask adherence on the women's side. 35% on the men's side. Very little social distancing. Around 150 people
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 08:31:09 AM
+1So he respects his own appearance more than the health of those in his vicinity?
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving Shiur or davening (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, lemasa it’s not bakovodig.”
Post by: YitzyS on July 02, 2020, 08:40:33 AM
+1FTF @CountValentine and others who may not be familiar with the language
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving a lecture or praying (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, bottom line is it’s not respectable.”
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 08:41:30 AM
Have you tried talking on the phone to someone who is wearing a mask?Great idea for a science fair project!
Does the composition of masks affect how well a voice can be heard?
Does the lower pitch of men's voices transmit better or worse than women's higher pitch voices?
Does a brief period of training in clearer enunciation improve voice transmission through a mask?
Etc.
Though I guess it's not the season for science fairs...
Post by: moish on July 02, 2020, 08:47:10 AM
Was at an American wedding last night in Yerushalayim (for a short time). I'd say about 85% mask adherence on the women's side. 35% on the men's side. Very little social distancing. Around 150 peopleI'm surprised the police didnt show up. At a wedding recently I was at, police showed up almost every hour
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 09:04:07 AM
If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.Actually, I think @yaakov35 is correct.
Social distancing is much more effective for decreasing corona transmission than wearing masks.
Similarly, driving within the speed limit is much more effective for decreasing highway fatalities than avoiding texting while driving.
Avoiding texting and wearing masks are not the most effective way to save lives, but they help.
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 09:05:56 AM
Actually, I think @yaakov35 is correct.Do you believe you can get the virus from surfaces?
Social distancing is much more effective for decreasing corona transmission than wearing masks.
Similarly, driving within the speed limit is much more effective for decreasing highway fatalities than avoiding texting while driving.
Avoiding texting and wearing masks are not the most effective way to save lives, but they help.
I guess you are not talking about N95 masks?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 10:08:56 AM
Do you believe you can get the virus from surfaces?How do those relate to what I wrote?
I guess you are not talking about N95 masks?
To rewrite:
Masks add a little extra protection.
Much greater protection can be had by remaining distant from other people.
Maximal protection requires adding masks to social distancing, but if one could do only one of these, just keeping away from other people would be a better choice than just wearing a mask.
Agree?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 10:22:37 AM
How do those relate to what I wrote?Properly wearing masks will help from spreading the virus to another surface. SD will not. You can be 100 feet away and cough and contaminate a surface. Someone can then touch that surface.
Masks add a little extra protection.Proper masks worn properly add great protection.
Much greater protection can be had by remaining distant from other people.
Maximal protection requires adding masks to social distancing, but if one could do only one of these, just keeping away from other people would be a better choice than just wearing a mask.Will have to disagree as SD is not possible in many situations. Wearing masks I would guess is possible in 90+ % of the situations.
Agree?
ETA: This isn't an either or situation. You wear your seatbelt and drive safely. You can argue which would save more lives but not one over the other.
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 10:34:41 AM
Properly wearing masks will help from spreading the virus to another surface. SD will not. You can be 100 feet away and cough and contaminate a surface. Someone can then touch that surface.Proper masks worn properly add great protection. Will have to disagree as SD is not possible in many situations. Wearing masks I would guess is possible in 90+ % of the situations.+1
ETA: This isn't an either or situation. You wear your seatbelt and drive safely. You can argue which would save more lives but not one over the other.
Though I agree with @biobook that strong SD is more important than mask wearing if you had to choose one (especially considering most aren’t wearing N95s and don’t know how to properly wear them, and especially outdoors)
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 10:40:45 AM
+1Surgical mask are effective and a no brainer to wear.
Though I agree with @biobook that strong SD is more important than mask wearing if you had to choose one (especially considering most aren’t wearing N95s and don’t know how to properly wear them, and especially outdoors)
If we all wore N95 masks then 15 would have been 0. ;)
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 04:36:41 PM
ETA: This isn't an either or situation. You wear your seatbelt and drive safely. You can argue which would save more lives but not one over the other.I was presenting it as an either or situation. I was responding to a poster who claimed that masks are "not that effective" and the only way I could imagine him seeing that somewhere was in an either/or discussion. So I started with that, but tried (not very effectively?) to segue into the more comprehensive answer you gave.
Y'know, the old "Yes, and..." response.
Post by: CountValentine on July 03, 2020, 07:21:10 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-callous-claim-pandemic-is-handled-exposed-by-rocketing-covid-19-infections/ar-BB16hsjy?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Post by: Dan on July 03, 2020, 09:56:34 AM
Post by: thaber on July 03, 2020, 10:32:44 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/how-white-house-coronavirus-response-went-wrong/613591/Wow. Quite an indictment
Post by: Yard sale on July 05, 2020, 06:05:56 AM
Wow. Quite an indictmentI wouldn’t expect otherwise from a guy who was Jimmy Carter’s speechwriter and is a major NPR guy. Long time Trump basher and Biden Worshiper.
Post by: CountValentine on July 05, 2020, 07:23:06 AM
I wouldn’t expect otherwise from a guy who was Jimmy Carter’s speechwriter and is a major NPR guy. Long time Trump basher and Biden Worshiper....but is what he wrote accurate?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 05, 2020, 09:49:27 AM
...but is what he wrote accurate?His conclusions do not appear accurate.
Post by: yaakov35 on July 07, 2020, 02:26:12 PM
?s=20Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the @WHO in the midst of a pandemic.
— Senator Bob Menendez (@SenatorMenendez) July 7, 2020
To call Trump’s response to COVID chaotic & incoherent doesn't do it justice. This won't protect American lives or interests—it leaves Americans sick & America alone.
Finally good news
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 02:47:26 PM
Finally good newsPut us more at risk is good news, OK. ::)
15 to 0 didn't work so what is the plan? Hot weather will knock it out didn't work so what is the plan? It will just disappear didn't work so what is the plan? There is no plan and you just have to live with it. 130k deaths and counting!!!
Post by: avromie7 on July 07, 2020, 03:05:18 PM
Put us more at risk is good news, OK. ::)The last thing we need during a pandemic is the WHO giving misinformation and covering up for China all at the US taxpayers expense.
15 to 0 didn't work so what is the plan? Hot weather will knock it out didn't work so what is the plan? It will just disappear didn't work so what is the plan? There is no plan and you just have to live with it. 130k deaths and counting!!!
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 03:07:01 PM
The last thing we need during a pandemic is the WHO giving misinformation and covering up for China all at the US taxpayers expense.You only look at things one way. Pulling out is the worse thing you can do.
Post by: avromie7 on July 07, 2020, 03:15:30 PM
You only look at things one way. Pulling out is the worse thing you can do.Why?
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
Why?He makes these snap decisions because he wants to blame someone for all his failures. The WHO has done a ton of good. Yes they have screwed up but you work to fix it.
Post by: Ergel on July 07, 2020, 03:39:18 PM
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 03:43:26 PM
Let's look at it another way. What do you gain by pulling out. Saving a few dollars - what impact is that going to have?You gain nothing. More money was wasted buying a drug that never worked and only Trump was promoting.
Post by: Jellybelly on July 07, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
You gain nothing. More money was wasted buying a drug that never worked and only Trump was promoting.Only Trump? 🙄
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 03:48:30 PM
Only Trump? 🙄Sorry, Trump and my signature.
Medical experts, NO!!!
Post by: avromie7 on July 07, 2020, 04:41:41 PM
Let's look at it another way. What do you gain by pulling out. Saving a few dollars - what impact is that going to have?Not supporting Chinas coverup. We should never be supporting corrupt organizations, financial cost being the least of the issues.
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 04:44:59 PM
Not supporting Chinas coverup. We should never be supporting corrupt organizations, financial cost being the least of the issues.Maybe talk to the president who said the leader of China is his friend and being totally transparent.
Wasn't Trump just as negligent?
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 06:50:58 PM
Nothing but a smoke screen. US didn't withdraw from anything.?s=20Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the @WHO in the midst of a pandemic.
— Senator Bob Menendez (@SenatorMenendez) July 7, 2020
To call Trump’s response to COVID chaotic & incoherent doesn't do it justice. This won't protect American lives or interests—it leaves Americans sick & America alone.
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 07, 2020, 07:00:49 PM
Nothing but a smoke screen. US didn't withdraw from anything.Honestly I don't understand this tweet. Its effective July 202. Who's calling that the midst of a pandemic?
Post by: CountValentine on July 07, 2020, 07:16:16 PM
Honestly I don't understand this tweet. Its effective July 202. Who's calling that the midst of a pandemic?Trump is spinning it that he is withdrawing like right now. The left is feeding off that spin. It doesn't matter who is president next year as we are withdrawing!
Post by: Lurker on July 08, 2020, 04:32:08 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/trump-cdc-school-guidelines-funding/index.html
Post by: yaakov35 on July 08, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
This doesn't really belong here, because it's not a blunder, but this relationship is dangerous:Yep, its absurd that they're even considering not opening schools.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/trump-cdc-school-guidelines-funding/index.html
Post by: Lurker on July 08, 2020, 04:46:18 PM
Yep, its absurd that they're even considering not opening schools.
Yep, cuz that's what the CDC does: they control the opening of schools.
Post by: yaakov35 on July 08, 2020, 04:47:24 PM
Yep, cuz that's what the CDC does: they control the opening of schools.When you have a list of demands as long as they do.... thats essentially controlling the opening
Post by: Lurker on July 08, 2020, 04:56:50 PM
When you have a list of demands as long as they do.... thats essentially controlling the opening
I don't think you understand the CDC's power.
Post by: avromie7 on July 08, 2020, 05:18:15 PM
Maybe talk to the president who said the leader of China is his friend and being totally transparent.I'm not discussing Trump, but the worst you're accusing him of is believing China, WHO helped the Chinese coverup. You can't even compare them.
Wasn't Trump just as negligent?
Post by: CountValentine on July 08, 2020, 05:45:51 PM
I'm not discussing Trump, but the worst you're accusing him of is believing China, WHO helped the Chinese coverup. You can't even compare them.I agree you can't compare them. Him believing China cost thousands of American lives.
Post by: CountValentine on July 08, 2020, 05:47:24 PM
Yep, its absurd that they're even considering not opening schools.Because you know better? If Trump said keep schools close you would screaming why are they opening schools. ::)
Post by: avromie7 on July 08, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Because you know better? If Trump said keep schools close you would know it's really badFTFY
Post by: CountValentine on July 16, 2020, 02:44:47 PM
https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/07/16/CDC-Most-COVID-19-cases-in-New-York-City-in-March-traced-to-Europe/2021594912724/
Post by: CountValentine on July 17, 2020, 11:12:08 AM
https://knx1070.radio.com/articles/report-to-task-force-suggests-18-states-rollback-reopenings
(https://i.postimg.cc/HWJC6D0m/TS.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Post by: CountValentine on July 29, 2020, 09:06:22 PM
Good thing he is impresses with some nut job doctor!!! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: zh cohen on August 16, 2020, 05:20:18 PM
Moronic, anyone with half a brain would tell you the deaths come after the hospitalizations which come after the spread/positives. This pattern has repeated itself EVERYWHERE, why can’t people understand that?
Let me guess. If/when deaths start piling up they’re going to say “Now everyone’s infected already so it’s safe to be open”.
Sheesh.
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?
Post by: Jellybelly on August 16, 2020, 05:52:29 PM
Our wartime president has now lost 150k+ lives.Weren’t they predicting a few million deaths?
Good thing he is impresses with some nut job doctor!!! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: CountValentine on August 16, 2020, 06:11:50 PM
Our wartime president has now lost 150k+ lives.Update: 170k+ dead! >:( >:( >:(
Good thing he is impresses with some nut job doctor!!! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: S209 on August 17, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?For what?
Post by: Lurker on August 26, 2020, 10:47:07 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
Post by: Euclid on August 26, 2020, 10:53:05 PM
In @CountValentine's place, may I present to you the next "blunder" courtesy of Orange Man Bad:Called it:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
He is doing this during the time period that Dr. Fauci can't speak. And Dr. Birx isn't at the conference either so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: yaakov35 on August 26, 2020, 11:48:04 PM
In @CountValentine's place, may I present to you the next "blunder" courtesy of Orange Man Bad:https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-did-not-get-orders-from-president-to-change-coronavirus-testing-guidelines-hhs-says
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
Post by: grodnoking on August 27, 2020, 12:13:49 AM
In @CountValentine's place, may I present to you the next "blunder" courtesy of Orange Man Bad:Usually "a federal health official close to the process" is as accurate as me hearing something from my uncles friend who's on a WhatsApp group with a cousin to the janitor at an iHop where the waiter has a night job together with the fellow who sells newspapers 3 blocks from the White House.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
Post by: Lurker on August 27, 2020, 07:16:03 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-did-not-get-orders-from-president-to-change-coronavirus-testing-guidelines-hhs-says
Did you read both articles? What do you see in the FOX article that contradicts the CNN version?
Post by: Lurker on August 27, 2020, 07:19:08 AM
Usually "a federal health official close to the process" is as accurate as me hearing something from my uncles friend who's on a WhatsApp group with a cousin to the janitor at an iHop where the waiter has a night job together with the fellow who sells newspapers 3 blocks from the White House.
Maybe, but read both the FOX version and the CNN version. Given the facts that they both agree on, and given that both of their experts (and Fauci) all agree that there is zero scientific basis for this decision, and given that this is far from the first time the administration has been accused of leaning on the CDC to alter their guidance to fit WH needs, why is it so far fetched to believe that they actually do have a source?
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 09:00:11 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-aides-review-cdc-coronavirus-reports-to-better-align-with-presidents-messaging-report
Post by: S209 on September 24, 2020, 12:27:50 PM
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/south-dakota/
Post by: aygart on September 24, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/south-dakota/That looks like a very well flattened curve.
Post by: YitzyS on September 24, 2020, 12:38:22 PM
Post by: S209 on September 24, 2020, 01:02:16 PM
I think that we should respect @CountValentine and preserve this thread, unused, until his return.What if someone else, say @ChaimMoskowitz , decides to pick up where he left off?
Post by: S209 on September 24, 2020, 01:02:54 PM
That looks like a very well flattened curve.The curve is not yet visible
Post by: CountValentine on November 13, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
Post by: yesitsme on November 13, 2020, 02:47:22 PM
Post by: Lurker on November 13, 2020, 02:52:21 PM
Would hiding in the basement while thousands of fellow Americans are dying a blunder?
No.
I don't know why you keep harping on this, though. If he didn't do anything when he was up for reelection, why would something change now that he's out?
He's down 3 touchdowns with a minute to go. The game hasn't been called, but he lost. He doesn't handle losing well, so he went to the locker room already to sulk. Time to move on.
Post by: CountValentine on November 14, 2020, 05:03:24 AM
He's down 3 touchdowns with a minute to go. The game hasn't been called, but he lost. He doesn't handle losing well, so he went to the locker room already to sulk. Time to move on.I guess we need a "How will this scumbag draft dodging coward LOSER President be remembered" tread then. :)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 22, 2020, 11:32:07 PM
?s=21CDC officials reveal 'political operatives' were placed inside the agency, to monitor and adjust all reports to reflect Trump's assertions, that here is no epidemic. CBS.
— Michael Grossman (@MichaelArt123) November 22, 2020
Post by: Lurker on November 22, 2020, 11:36:16 PM
?s=21CDC officials reveal 'political operatives' were placed inside the agency, to monitor and adjust all reports to reflect Trump's assertions, that here is no epidemic. CBS.
— Michael Grossman (@MichaelArt123) November 22, 2020
We've been saying this for months already. Glad CBS caught on.
Post by: S209 on December 27, 2020, 10:56:11 PM
Post by: S209 on December 27, 2020, 11:02:02 PM
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?
That looks like a very well flattened curve.
The curve is not yet visible
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QGyFFwG/south-dakota.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Post by: aygart on December 28, 2020, 08:34:06 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QGyFFwG/south-dakota.png) (https://postimages.org/)Looks similar to North Dakota. Did they have similar policies?
Post by: S209 on December 28, 2020, 09:22:47 AM
Looks similar to North Dakota. Did they have similar policies?I don’t know, but one thing is for sure- Kristi Noem didnt “avert” anything, they just got hit later.
Post by: aygart on December 28, 2020, 09:23:42 AM
I don’t know, but one thing is for sure- Kristi Noem didnt “avert” anything, they just got hit later.With no control group the data means little.
Post by: S209 on December 28, 2020, 09:41:16 AM
With no control group the data means little.I was just responding to this
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 29, 2020, 01:40:33 AM
?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
Post by: Ergel on December 29, 2020, 07:42:18 AM
It's mind-boggling to think that 1 out of every 1000 American's has died, and by the time it's done it will hit at least 1.5Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
Post by: AsherO on December 29, 2020, 08:06:38 AM
?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
If Americans had all moved to all these countries their COVID numbers are likely to have gone up.
Post by: yitzgar on December 29, 2020, 08:13:40 AM
Chances of being a victim of violent crime in those countries is probably also a lot lower. I wonder if people in those countries behave differently?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
Post by: Jellybelly on December 29, 2020, 08:17:20 AM
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
Post by: sguitarist18 on December 29, 2020, 08:38:12 AM
Post by: S209 on December 29, 2020, 10:15:05 AM
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.Just to understand what you’re saying, when you say a governor “killed” people you mean exposed additional vulnerable people to COVID?
Post by: avromie7 on December 29, 2020, 10:20:35 AM
Just to understand what you’re saying, when you say a governor “killed” people you mean exposed additional vulnerable people to COVID?Which directly let to a massive increase in deaths.
Post by: Ergel on December 29, 2020, 10:23:28 AM
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.Curious what the death rate comparison is if you take out nursing homes. I would bet the disparity is similar
Post by: S209 on December 29, 2020, 10:24:10 AM
Which directly let to a massive increase in deaths.Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.
Post by: avromie7 on December 29, 2020, 10:47:33 AM
Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.Spread among 30 y/os is directly and indirectly responsible for a miniscule amount of deaths compared to spread in nursing homes.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 29, 2020, 10:53:06 AM
Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.
The point people are making is if you take out the disastrous nursing home policies in NY, NJ, MI, etc., the USA numbers would look vastly different. This administration is not to blame for policies other states, such as FL and CA, figured out were deadly immediately.
Post by: AsherO on December 29, 2020, 11:20:52 AM
Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.
Spread in the general population or even in exposed people cannot be compared to sending COVID+ people back to nursing homes full of high-risk residents.
Post by: yelped on December 29, 2020, 11:29:54 AM
The point people are making is if you take out the disastrous nursing home policies in NY, NJ, MI, etc., the USA numbers would look vastly different. This administration is not to blame for policies other states, such as FL and CA, figured out were deadly immediately.Right, but I still wonder if the numbers are still significantly higher, excluding the nursing home deaths, than other countries, which could be partially explained by the numbers of obese people in the US.
Post by: TimT on December 29, 2020, 11:43:25 AM
which could be partially explained by the numbers of obese people in the US.This plus other factors as well. But incompetent leadership on all levels doesn’t help.
Post by: AsherO on December 29, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
This plus other factors as well. But incompetent leadership on all levels doesn’t help.
There are endless factors such as American selfishness, inconsistent policies, inconsistent enforcement, the distraction of the presidential election, BLM riots (and people seeing that those get a free pass so thinking they can do what they want in other settings too), and the media hyperbolizing everything to the point of obscurity.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 29, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
American selfishness
Source?
Post by: Jellybelly on December 29, 2020, 02:42:32 PM
Source?Maybe cuz we’re only giving away $700 billion to other countries and not more
Post by: AsherO on December 29, 2020, 02:47:28 PM
Maybe cuz we’re only giving away $700 billion to other countries and not more
The intention there is self-serving foreign policy, not altruism.
Post by: aygart on December 29, 2020, 03:19:47 PM
Just to understand what you’re saying, when you say a governor “killed” people you mean exposed additional vulnerable people to COVID?Don't leave out the setting being high risk of spread too. Also the difference between actually exposing and not preventing risk of exposure are so far apart. The equivalence is almost like calling the original lockdown similar to China welding buildings shut.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 29, 2020, 08:38:57 PM
Post by: iluv2travel on December 29, 2020, 08:47:48 PM
10% of the total number of COVID deaths in the United States occurred in the last 12 days.
And 10% of the total confirmed case count occurred in the last 10 days.
Post by: AsherO on December 29, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
And 10% of the total confirmed case count occurred in the last 10 days.
That’s a scarier statistic, because deaths R”L lag...
Post by: iluv2travel on December 29, 2020, 10:03:28 PM
That’s a scarier statistic, because deaths R”L lag...
Yes very. The yeshuah, can't come fast enough. Hopefully it'll be the vaccine with Hashem's help.
I didn't do the math but most likely the preceeding 10 days and also 10 days prior were also 10% of the case counts at those intervals. Because the counts were so high every day.
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 10:41:53 AM
Spread among 30 y/os is directly and indirectly responsible for a miniscule amount of deaths compared to spread in nursing homes.False, and exactly my point. All large scale spread in LTCFs started with large scale spread among other people. The spread among 30 year olds directly and indirectly led to *every* death in the US- including those in LTCFs. I’m not saying Cuomo wasn’t dead wrong (he certainly was), I’m saying the US failed in precisely this way on a broad scale. Bringing in Cuomo’s deadly decisions as a *defense* of the US death rate is inane.
Denmark, Taiwan, New Zealand, and the other countries quoted in the tweet didn’t need to decide about that *because* there wasn’t a lot of spread. Sweden is now being accused of poor nursing home policy as well *because* there was a lot of spread. You can’t get to step 2 (good or bad nursing home policy) without getting to step 1- having a lot of infected people spreading COVID.
Post by: avromie7 on December 30, 2020, 10:51:22 AM
It appears my post did not clearly represent what I was trying to say.False, and exactly my point. All large scale spread in LTCFs started with large scale spread among other people. The spread among 30 year olds directly and indirectly led to *every* death in the US- including those in LTCFs. I’m not saying Cuomo wasn’t dead wrong (he certainly was), I’m saying the US failed in precisely this way on a broad scale. Bringing in Cuomo’s deadly decisions as a *defense* of the US death rate is inane.This is utterly ridiculous. There were many nursing homes that did not have outbreaks, and were working day and night to keep it that way. Comes along Cuomo and literally forces them to bring the virus into their facility. Not only did that directly lead to many many deaths, but it also was directly responsible for a very big part of the hospital overload which lead to many many more deaths. None of this had anything to do with the 30 y/os.
Denmark, Taiwan, New Zealand, and the other countries quoted in the tweet didn’t need to decide about that *because* there wasn’t a lot of spread. Sweden is now being accused of poor nursing home policy as well *because* there was a lot of spread. You can’t get to step 2 (good or bad nursing home policy) without getting to step 1- having a lot of infected people spreading COVID.
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 11:03:03 AM
This is utterly ridiculous. There were many nursing homes that did not have outbreaks, and were working day and night to keep it that way. Comes along Cuomo and literally forces them to bring the virus into their facility. Not only did that directly lead to many many deaths, but it also was directly responsible for a very big part of the hospital overload which lead to many many more deaths. None of this had anything to do with the 30 y/os.Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?
Post by: aygart on December 30, 2020, 11:11:46 AM
Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?Who cares which cow the anthrax virus in the powder originated from. It is 100% on the shoulders of the terrorist who sent it when someone dies from it. Here too it makes no difference where the patient zero in the LTCF caught it from. It is all on the shoulders of the terrorist who forced them into the home.
Post by: avromie7 on December 30, 2020, 11:26:35 AM
Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?This is irrelevant, the fact is there was some spread, and the governor made sure it continues to spread among the highest risk population.
Post by: zh cohen on December 30, 2020, 12:45:09 PM
It is 100% on the shoulders of the terrorist who sent it when someone dies from it.
Don't you know that unemployment is responsible for all terrorism...
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 12:53:51 PM
Who cares which cow the anthrax virus in the powder originated from. It is 100% on the shoulders of the terrorist who sent it when someone dies from it. Here too it makes no difference where the patient zero in the LTCF caught it from. It is all on the shoulders of the terrorist who forced them into the home.Of course. What’s your point? Someone tried to defend the fact that living in the US in 2020 was much deadlier than living in, say, Singapore by pointing to Cuomo’s actions. But his policies are *not* the differentiator. The enormous spread in the US is. His actions followed those facts.
Just like in NY, there were a lot of deaths in Florida, Texas, and other places, the majority occurring in LTCFs. Singapore, Taiwan etc. had no such issue. Was it the nursing home policies or something else that explains the enormous death discrepancies?
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
This is irrelevant, the fact is there was a ton of spread, and the governor made sure it continues to spread among the highest risk population.FTFY
Irrelevant to what? Are you aware of what I was responding to?
Post by: aygart on December 30, 2020, 04:49:58 PM
Of course. What’s your point? Someone tried to defend the fact that living in the US in 2020 was much deadlier than living in, say, Singapore by pointing to Cuomo’s actions. But his policies are *not* the differentiator. The enormous spread in the US is. His actions followed those facts.Keep in mind that this policy was in March and April when it was after the fact from under the radar spread. We now know that it had been spreading silently for months by then but at the time did not.
Just like in NY, there were a lot of deaths in Florida, Texas, and other places, the majority occurring in LTCFs. Singapore, Taiwan etc. had no such issue. Was it the nursing home policies or something else that explains the enormous death discrepancies?
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 06:48:39 PM
Keep in mind that this policy was in March and April when it was after the fact from under the radar spread. We now know that it had been spreading silently for months by then but at the time did not.Right, we were unsuccessful at keeping the virus at bay like other countries were. That’s the point. Cuomo is not responsible for the large discrepancy between the countries mentioned.
Related question: Is the percentage of deaths in nursing homes vs. other locations different in Florida and Texas than NY?
Post by: aygart on December 30, 2020, 07:39:29 PM
Right, we were unsuccessful at keeping the virus at bay like other countries were. That’s the point. Cuomo is not responsible for the large discrepancy between the countries mentioned.Is there any western country that was successful?
Related question: Is the percentage of deaths in nursing homes vs. other locations different in Florida and Texas than NY?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 30, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Within three weeks of the discovery of the outbreak, the U.S. Public Health Service, in conjunction with New York City health officials, had procured vaccine and inoculated over 6,350,000 adults and children
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 08:19:11 PM
Is there any western country that was successful?Denmark, Norway, Finland, Australia, New Zealand etc.
The referenced tweet literally listed countries we were compared to. Anybody who thinks the difference is Cuomo is delusional.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 30, 2020, 08:40:58 PM
Is there any western country that was successful?The US has 3x the death rate of Canada.
Anybody who thinks the difference is Cuomo is delusional.38k people died in NYS from Covid. At most Cuomo is responsible for 10% of US deaths. Even if you don't count them, the US has one of the highest death rates in the world.
Coumo made a horrific mistake, but it was done at the height of extreme fear and unknown conditions (because the Federal government blocked testing), and quickly rectified. The same mistake was made by ~25 other governments. Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals. Trump is still promoting large congregations without masks, and Pence is skiing in Vail while shifting responsibility for vaccination to the states. Yes, the States are responsible, but the Federal gov't should be helping instead of vacationing.
I know most people here are irreparably convinced of Coumo-Bad-Trump-Good, but Coumo has done his best to help NY. Trump is playing golf and doing nothing.
Post by: aygart on December 30, 2020, 08:40:58 PM
Denmark, Norway, Finland, Australia, New Zealand etc.
The referenced tweet literally listed countries we were compared to. Anybody who thinks the difference is Cuomo is delusional.
In MARCH? I apologize if it was unclear, but that is what I was going on because that is when Coumo murdered these people. I don't think the difference is Cuomo but also don't brush his terrorism aside like you do. That is equally delusional BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS.
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 08:43:15 PM
In MARCH?I really have no idea where you’re going with this. What was wrong with what I said?
I responded to this inane comment:
?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.
Post by: aygart on December 30, 2020, 08:45:07 PM
The US has 3x the death rate of Canada.See my clarification above. It had written a response to @S209 defending Coumo by saying that we were less successful than others AT THAT TIME. That is UTTER STUPIDITY AND REVISIONIST HISTORY.
38k people died in NYS from Covid. At most Cuomo is responsible for 10% of US deaths. Even if you don't count them, the US has one of the highest death rates in the world.
Coumo made a horrific mistake, but it was done at the height of extreme fear and unknown conditions (because the Federal government blocked testing), and quickly rectified. The same mistake was made by ~25 other governments. Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals. Trump is still promoting large congregations without masks, and Pence is skiing in Vail while shifting responsibility for vaccination to the states. Yes, the States are responsible, but the Federal gov't should be helping instead of vacationing.
I know most people here are irreparably convinced of Coumo-Bad-Trump-Good, but Coumo has done his best to help NY. Trump is playing golf and doing nothing.
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 08:46:00 PM
I don't think the difference is Cuomo but also don't brush his terrorism aside like you do. That is equally delusional BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS.Where did I brush it aside? I agree the policy was terrible and have said so multiple times. But it’s irrelevant to this conversation. I do also think it was more misguided, less evil, though he has subsequently made decisions that might be more properly labeled as evil and made me rethink my opinion of him.
Post by: aygart on December 30, 2020, 08:47:03 PM
I really have no idea where you’re going with this. What was wrong with what I said?and I replied to this
I responded to this inane comment:
Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 08:53:08 PM
and I replied to thisI wrote flawed in that comment. And I think in retrospect it was terrible. But it was irrelevant to the conversation at the time. My point was that it didn’t happen in a vacuum and was not the defining difference between the US and elsewhere and you’re nuts if you think it is.
If I don’t vocally condemn the policy each time it’s mentioned I’m “brushing it aside”? What would you like me to say?
Post by: S209 on December 30, 2020, 08:55:39 PM
See my clarification above. It had written a response to @S209 defending Coumo by saying that we were less successful than others AT THAT TIME. That is UTTER STUPIDITY AND REVISIONIST HISTORY.When did I defend his decision?! I strongly disagree with it and think it was a horrible decision. As I have stated before many times.
Post by: Afrages6 on December 31, 2020, 12:36:12 AM
Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals.
Wasn’t possible or reasonable to do for most nursing homes. And they were forbidden from testing incoming residents!!!!
That part is completely indefensible no matter which way you slice it.
Post by: Jellybelly on December 31, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
Post by: iluv2travel on December 31, 2020, 01:30:36 AM
And no reason at all to Dan him lkaf zechus!
Nor to write statements such as this:
but Coumo has done his best to help NY.
I don't care what Trump was doing. But Cuomo was (and is) most certainly not doing his best to help anybody but his self image. And I'll repeat, those policies were:
completely indefensible no matter which way you slice it.
Post by: avromie7 on December 31, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Right, we were unsuccessful at keeping the virus at bay like other countries were. That’s the point. Cuomo is not responsible for the large discrepancy between the countries mentioned.It's hard to know because Cuomo fudged the numbers.
Related question: Is the percentage of deaths in nursing homes vs. other locations different in Florida and Texas than NY?
The US has 3x the death rate of Canada.Cuomo wasn't the only governor to issue such an order. NJ, PA, and IL among other states had the same murderous order. Additionally, filling up hospitals with nursing home patients let to a much lower standard of care for everyone else.
38k people died in NYS from Covid. At most Cuomo is responsible for 10% of US deaths. Even if you don't count them, the US has one of the highest death rates in the world.
Coumo made a horrific mistake, but it was done at the height of extreme fear and unknown conditions (because the Federal government blocked testing), and quickly rectified. The same mistake was made by ~25 other governments. Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals. Trump is still promoting large congregations without masks, and Pence is skiing in Vail while shifting responsibility for vaccination to the states. Yes, the States are responsible, but the Federal gov't should be helping instead of vacationing.
I know most people here are irreparably convinced of Coumo-Bad-Trump-Good, but Coumo has done his best to help NY. Trump is playing golf and doing nothing.
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 27, 2021, 02:48:15 AM
Last Sept, Politico reported that Trump appointees at HHS interfered with CDC reports on Covid (h/t @azeen)
— Jason Leopold (@JasonLeopold) January 26, 2021
I got the emails via #FOIA (quoted by Politico) laying bare the political interference by Trump's appointees.
Just stunning. pic.twitter.com/JY16JWrDLQ
Post by: AsherO on January 27, 2021, 08:11:55 AM
Last Sept, Politico reported that Trump appointees at HHS interfered with CDC reports on Covid (h/t @azeen)
— Jason Leopold (@JasonLeopold) January 26, 2021
I got the emails via #FOIA (quoted by Politico) laying bare the political interference by Trump's appointees.
Just stunning. pic.twitter.com/JY16JWrDLQ
I don’t get how the pictures in the tweet show interference.
Post by: avromie7 on January 27, 2021, 11:45:51 AM
Did you bother reading the email? I don't see anything wrong with it.Last Sept, Politico reported that Trump appointees at HHS interfered with CDC reports on Covid (h/t @azeen)
— Jason Leopold (@JasonLeopold) January 26, 2021
I got the emails via #FOIA (quoted by Politico) laying bare the political interference by Trump's appointees.
Just stunning. pic.twitter.com/JY16JWrDLQ
Post by: avromie7 on January 27, 2021, 11:46:44 AM
I don’t get how the pictures in the tweet show interference.He's accusing them of posting inaccurate summaries for political gain.
Post by: aygart on January 28, 2021, 05:36:22 PM
Listening to Fauci science? NOPE!
Here’s Fauci explaining that the evidence shows that open schools actually seem more likely to reduce covid spread than if the schools were closed.
— Zac Bissonnette (@ZacBissonnette) January 28, 2021
So the learning loss and child abuse and pediatric suicides actually made covid worse.
Oopsie daisy! pic.twitter.com/ROVM4nJXf0
Post by: skyguy918 on February 03, 2021, 10:34:51 AM
Well, now that there is a new "this administration," lets see how they are doing.Looks like they took their tweets private. What did it say?
Listening to Fauci science? NOPE!Here’s Fauci explaining that the evidence shows that open schools actually seem more likely to reduce covid spread than if the schools were closed.
— Zac Bissonnette (@ZacBissonnette) January 28, 2021
So the learning loss and child abuse and pediatric suicides actually made covid worse.
Oopsie daisy! pic.twitter.com/ROVM4nJXf0