List there blunders here.early on no one took it too seriously (especially china)
Early on they never took this serious.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/senator-says-white-house-turned-down-emergency-coronavirus-funding-in-early-february/ar-BB11OvE1?li=BBnbfcL
but to answer your question no just the way things work (or dont depends on whos perspective)No need for perspective. Just the facts.
How many covid-19 threads have you opened?Just posting facts and not bashing anyone. We deserve to know the truth.
And how many of them are to bash trump?
How many covid-19 threads have you opened?Ding ding ding
And how many of them are to bash trump?
Ding ding dingJust the facts.
Wait, is anyone of the position here that the federal government did not botch up the response to the emergence of Covid-19? If even we DDFers were apprehensive about it in early January and @yuneeq had sounded the alarms and put together a response plan, why didn't the federal government which is tasked with safeguarding its citizens do even the basics to keep this virus out of our borders and contained? Nevermind, that they botched up even later when it was apparent to all already the grave dangers that the virus posed.There are many who think that way. If you point out how it was botched you are accused of bashing Trump.
Refusing to use the Defense Production Act.::)
https://news.yahoo.com/pressure-grows-on-trump-to-invoke-defense-production-act-for-coronavirus-response-004710535.html
::)We lost weeks because he was afraid to use it. Thanks for proving my point.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-general-motors-ventilators-defense-production-act
We lost weeks because he was afraid to use it. Thanks for proving my point.to sit in NY stockpile
Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
to sit in NY stockpileYou are focusing on NY when it will be a national shortage. Respirators are just one thing. Currently as we speak there is a major shortage of PPE equipment. Thousands of companies can make these. Use the DPA to get these made!!!
I think the truth is pretty much out there if you just look back at the official announcements coming out for the past 2 months. Digging deeper won't be pretty though.And you wonder why so many didn't and still don't take it serious, NOT!!!
Currently as we speak there is a major shortage of PPE equipment.Didn't Cuomo say there is no shortage of PPE?
Didn't Cuomo say there is no shortage of PPE?This is a national crisis. All over the country there is constant stories of being out/short of PPE. Dr Fauci acknowledged this. He personally receives these calls.
This is a national crisis. All over the country there is constant stories of being out/short of PPE. Dr Fauci acknowledged this. He personally receives these calls.Because there's a genuine shortage or because of the cost increases?
My nephew is at a major hospital and has to swab patients without the proper PPE. They can't get what they need.
Gotta agree with @CountValentine on this one. It’s an embarrassment and ppl will die due to the inaction!!! The entire political system was so off in managing and preparing for this crisis. Love when you go back to January/February and watch how the overwhelming majority of politicians mayors governors etc all saying that they’re prepared... lol so off these ppl they should all be fired.The only thing done right was the travel ban from China. That bought time which was squandered.
Because there's a genuine shortage or because of the cost increases?There is a shortage, period!!!
My prediction is that Trump will lose the election as a result.Why are we still busy with elections and not about getting things done now?? Why is everything politics in this country?
My prediction is that Trump will lose the election as a result.Unfortunately that seems to be effecting his decisions.
Why are we still busy with elections and not about getting things done now?? Why is everything politics in this country?What can I do now from my couch to help get things done?!?
Why is everything politics in this country?A large percentage of the country (left and right) can't separate politics from anything else.
My prediction is that Trump will lose the election as a result.Yes, if there were a viable alternative. It's laughable to think Joe would have done a better job. I think this helps Trump ultimately because nobody has given a thought to Biden or the election in the last month. Just check Trump approval ratings.
A large percentage of the country (left and right) can't separate politics from anything else.They aren't separate. Three is almost nothing not affected by politics.
Yes, if there were a viable alternative. It's laughable to think Joe would have done a better job. I think this helps Trump ultimately because nobody has given a thought to Biden or the election in the last month. Just check Trump approval ratings.Good point. However, ppl are upset at the current leader and thus will throw him out of office. I understand that.
Unfortunately that seems to be affecting his decisions.100%. Loser.
A large percentage of the country (left and right) can't separate politics from anything else.So keep up the stupid politics while the ship sinks....
Just check Trump approval ratings.His poll numbers are high because we as Americans support our president in a time of a crisis. That changes the longer it goes on and when the truth comes out.
His poll numbers are high because we as Americans support our president in a time of a crisis. That changes the longer it goes on and when the truth comes out.The big question will be if Biden can capitalize on it.
Since you want to talk about ratings did you see todays FOX poll. Biden destroys Trump. What does it say about Trump when someone who is showing early signs of dementia is beating him?
Additionally, every single doctor who claimed in Jan/Feb that the regular flu is more dangerous than this virus and laughed the whole thing off SHOULD LOSE HIS LICENSE!!!Amen. Some are still saying it too ::)
The big question will be if Biden can capitalize on it.You mean the guy who has been MIA the last two weeks?
Yes, if there were a viable alternative. It's laughable to think Joe would have done a better job. I think this helps Trump ultimately because nobody has given a thought to Biden or the election in the last month. Just check Trump approval ratings.Trump, who knows very little about the science, as anyone who listens to his daily "briefings" knows, crowds everyone out.Biden or anyone who half a brain and normal ego would let professionals run the the response to the pandemic.
You mean the guy who has been MIA the last two weeks?Where do you get your news from? Seems you been living under a rock. He has been on almost every day. He would be better off if he was MIA.
Amen. Some are still saying it too ::)Who???
Who???Turn on FOX.
Turn on FOX.They’re still saying that?
They’re still saying that?They started up again when Trump stated he want the country back to work by Easter. The pushed the BS again how the flu and autos kill more.
Where do you get your news from? Seems you been living under a rock. He has been on almost every day. He would be better off if he was MIA.https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/democrats-need-to-recruit-obama-to-bench-biden-find-another-candidate-goodwin/
First faulty test kits now faulty ventilators and our incompetent president rants about TV ratings. >:( >:( >:(Are these the ventilators that Cuomo put in STORAGE after receiving from the feds?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-got-170-broken-ventilators-from-feds-silicon-valley-is-fixing-them-newsom-says/ar-BB11SvJN?ocid=spartanntp
Are these the ventilators that Cuomo put in STORAGE after receiving from the feds?Keep living in denial.
When the dust clears, the biggest failure of all may be the failure to make masks available to the public, and worse, those agencies and organizations that said not to bother with masks as they don't help.The problem is we didn't have enough masks for hospital workers let alone the general public. Trumps needs to force any and all companies to make surgical masks for every single person. It should be mandatory to wear them!!!
The problem is we didn't have enough masks for hospital workers let alone the general public. Trumps needs to force any and all companies to make surgical masks for every single person. It should be mandatory to wear them!!!Right. There should have been mass production months ago
Right. There should have been mass production months ago...it will still help now but they can't even get this right.
ok we get the point you dont like trumpI don't like Pelosi either but she is right.
thank you for sharing your insight
I don't like Pelosi either but she is right.Like when she stalled the stimulus bill for week?
She is 100% correct but is it to soon to go there?Wasn't she against the China travel ban?
"The president, his denial at the beginning, was deadly," Ms Pelosi said.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/coronavirus-nancy-pelosi-condemns-trumps-e2-80-98deadly-e2-80-99-delay-in-response-to-covid-19-pandemic/ar-BB11Sn1K
Wasn't she against the China travel ban?Not sure but I would guess yes.
Like when she stalled the stimulus bill for week?She got massive increases for workers, hospitals and small businesses. I will wait a couple of days for those increases any day, wouldn't you?
Wasn't she against the China travel ban?Of course she was.
She got massive increases for workers, hospitals and small businesses. I will wait a couple of days for those increases any day, wouldn't you?Still running with that false narrative, huh?
Not sure but I would guess yes.So her response was even more deadly. They all have egg on their face.
So her response was even more deadly. They all have egg on their face.Of course, but the president is still the top of the totem pole.
So her response was even more deadly. They all have egg on their face.Her response was political.
March 20 MSNBC's Rachel @maddow:
— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) March 30, 2020
"There is no sign that the Navy hospital ships that the president made such a big deal of, the Comfort and the Mercy, there's no sign that they'll be anywhere on-site helping out anywhere in the country for weeks yet."pic.twitter.com/NkyzUqaEME
Her response was political.Who's worse?
Who's worse?Wait a minute. What decision did she make that that caused people to die?
Someone who kills someone because they are mentally unstable, or someone who kills someone because they don't like the person's boss?
Wait a minute. What decision did she make that that caused people to die?
Who's worse?
Someone who kills someone because they are mentally unstable, or someone who attempts kills someone because they don't like the person's boss?
You're right. FTFM.Say what? What attempt did she make?
Say what? What attempt did she make?Even her political response can have consequences on the end result, and such results can cause a change which causes death.
Do you understand what I meant by "political response"?
Even her political response can have consequences on the end result, and such results can cause a change which causes death.True but in this case I fail to see how her saying Trump was wrong to stop flights caused deaths.
Her response was political.Her response was deadly.
Well this is what he needs to do.....I think what he was trying to say is "we need to see what the president does and then we can shout about how he's doing it all wrong and he needs to do something else."
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Her response was deadly.Her response had no impact. Trump is the one who waited weeks and did nothing after the ban.
Can anyone show me a politician who has handled this properly, in a way that didn't cost any lives? I don't know why we keep pointing fingers, as if anyone else did it (or is doing it) right.Any past president would have listened to the experts and acted. Just like many states are listening to the experts and acting.
Any past president would have listened to the experts and acted. Just like many states are listening to the experts and acting.
Can anyone show me a politician who has handled this properly, in a way that didn't cost any lives? I don't know why we keep pointing fingers, as if anyone else did it (or is doing it) right.Maybe Netanyahu.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Can you point to an actual, named politician, who is currently handling this properly?The last time I checked we only have one president. The same president that said "I don't take responsibility".
Maybe Netanyahu.That's what I was going to say.
Maybe Netanyahu.
Maybe Netanyahu.But they didn't clamp down enough in the Chareidi neighborhoods until recently and now the cases are going to jump like crazy. :'(
You mean the guy whose government flew hundreds of people into his country when they knew they were infected? And forgot to tell the other passengers on those planes? And then only quarantined the people they knew were sick and didn't bother testing anyone else who sat with infected people for hours in a sealed tube?As of this date they are doing amazing, from a sheer numbers perspective. Time will tell if he did well. I’m rooting for him, and not because I like him.
He did better, I'll give him that. But huge gaffes right and left in the Israeli response, just like everyone else.
As of this date they are doing amazing, from a sheer numbers perspective. Time will tell if he did well. I’m rooting for him, and not because I like him.
That's what I was going to say.Dan you were so right when after every post about “draconian” Israeli measures, you ended-
Dan you were so right when after every post about “draconian” Israeli measures, you ended-The main point I am seeing in this post is that everyone is grasping at thin air.
“History will judge who’s approach was right”.
I can see that already...
LAST WEEK: Trump mocked for suggesting "sanitizing masks" and the drug Chloroquine. TODAY: Technology can sanitize 120,000 masks/day and Chloroquine has been approved by FDA for #CoronaVirus. Any questions?
— Steven Crowder (@scrowder) March 30, 2020
Maybe Netanyahu.https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety (https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety)
Maybe Netanyahu.
https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety (https://www.dkv.global/covid-19-health-safety)
It looks like the mask issue was a major blunder and still is. Today Trump says to wear a scarf. ::)Cashmere?
It looks like the mask issue was a major blunder and still is. Today Trump says to wear a scarf. ::)We were all brainwashed, myself included. Just look around the forums and see how many are preaching about masks not working. This will turn out to have been a major blunder indeed.
We were all brainwashed, myself included. Just look around the forums and see how many are preaching about masks not working. This will turn out to have been a major blunder indeed.
It looks like the mask issue was a major blunder and still is. Today Trump says to wear a scarf. ::)If the main thing is so that the wearer's aerosols get caught in it and don't spread then why wouldn't a scarf accomplish that? A surgical mask is also own on the sides. I have been telling people privately for a while that they should use scarfs of not masks. How are they worse than homemade masks?
We were all brainwashed, myself included. Just look around the forums and see how many are preaching about masks not working. This will turn out to have been a major blunder indeed.Change we to most. Mask do work and I gave my first hand account when I was required to wear them during another crisis.
I've been screaming from the rooftops that the CDC has been preaching fake news about masks all along.Not sure I would call it fake news. They were walking a fine line.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114606.msg2206925#msg2206925
Like the title says the truth will come out. What did they know and when did they know it?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-economists-warned-in-2019-a-pandemic-could-devastate-america/ar-BB11YWHC?ocid=spartanntp
Now they want to blame the CDC and China but you can't rewrite history.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-seeks-to-blame-cdc-and-china-for-any-delay-in-us-coronavirus-response-not-trumps-initial-failure-to-face-reality/ar-BB121GUm?li=BBnb7Kz (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-seeks-to-blame-cdc-and-china-for-any-delay-in-us-coronavirus-response-not-trumps-initial-failure-to-face-reality/ar-BB121GUm?li=BBnb7Kz)
At the coronavirus briefing on February 26, for example, Trump said all of the following: "This is a flu. This is like a flu"; "Now, you treat this like a flu"; "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."
I wonder if any of these did the same?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUhN5aIWkAATlag?format=jpg&name=large)
I see there CNN. Top right.Was that the position of the CDC though?
Was that the position of the CDC though?I don't know. It is just that the article is from CNN. Anyone saying that he should have known should be looking at what EVERYONE was saying at the time. Yes, there was reason to see it to be untrue, but just look how many were comparing it to the flu.
Was that the position of the CDC though?Not sure but the point is they are trying to blame everyone besides the guy who claimed 15 will be zero, it is just the flu, it is a D hoax and the list goes on and on.
Not sureUm, isn't that the most important question here?
it is a D hoax#fakenews never happened.
Can we do the same thread, but for de Blasio?So you're looking for a candidate for a new "longest thread on DDF?"
So you're looking for a candidate for a new "longest thread on DDF?"Cuomo is overruling him *today* while NYers are burying people by the dozen.
Can we do the same thread, but for de Blasio?You mean he did something to be called a blunder?
You mean he did something to be called a blunder?No, he was too busy making movie recommendations and going to the gym to make any blunders
No, he was too busy making movie recommendations and going to the gym to make any blundersDon't forget about the China Parade.
Can we do the same thread, but for de Blasio?Sure start one or is it the duty of your slave? >:(
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/01/825179922/fighting-covid-19-is-like-whack-a-mole-says-writer-who-warned-of-pandemic
COVID-19 was taking off in China for at least a month before it first reached U.S. shores. And during that month, not much actually happened [in the U.S.]. A lot of preparedness measures could have been launched. The country could have sprung into action, ready for this, for the virus to eventually reach it. But if anything, America more or less sat idle. It was sluggish. And I do wonder if that propensity to think of itself as being truly exceptional, that slight hubris, left it more unprepared than it needed to be. And I think that even though many people had warned about this for a long time, the underwhelming nature of America's response to this threat has really surprised even people who had been warning, who had been issuing alarms.
There is a thing called the Global Health Security Index, which ranks different countries according to their levels of preparedness for pandemics, according to 140 different criteria, based on regulations from the World Health Organization. And out of all the countries that were assessed, the United States has the highest score — 83.5, a solid B. But if you look at how the country has actually reacted to the pandemic, I think we probably get something like an F. This nation that was meant to be the most prepared of all has really flubbed its response, and I think, to a degree, that has shocked even the most alarmed or pessimistic people who I'd spoken to before, in my earlier reporting.
Do you think the constant lying from the WHO and China might have had something to do with it? Or are those just Republican talking points so we can’t admit they’re actually true?Of course China lied. Always has and always will. They might be Trumps friend but they are not USA friend!!!
Of course China lied. Always has and always will. They might be Trumps friend but they are not USA friend!!!
Do you think Trump not taking this serious from the beginning just made things worse and in the end will cost more lives has anything to do with it? Or are those just anyone with a brain talking points so we can't admit they're actually true?
I find it funny that some people in my circles were claiming for weeks that the coronavirus is all being hyped up by the media to make Trump look bad, and are now claiming the media was downplaying it during that same time period and obviously Trump shouldn’t be any smarter than them.
In reality the media was downplaying it, but Trump is the decision maker and ultimately the most responsible for this mess. Whataboutism won’t change anything for me.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/01/825179922/fighting-covid-19-is-like-whack-a-mole-says-writer-who-warned-of-pandemic
COVID-19 was taking off in China for at least a month before it first reached U.S. shores. And during that month, not much actually happened [in the U.S.]. A lot of preparedness measures could have been launched. The country could have sprung into action, ready for this, for the virus to eventually reach it. But if anything, America more or less sat idle. It was sluggish. And I do wonder if that propensity to think of itself as being truly exceptional, that slight hubris, left it more unprepared than it needed to be. And I think that even though many people had warned about this for a long time, the underwhelming nature of America's response to this threat has really surprised even people who had been warning, who had been issuing alarms.
Republicans and Dems alike downplayed it for all it was worth. Most countries are getting crushed by it, it came out of left field, and China is more to blame than anyone else.Clinton is irrelevant. She is old news. Sanders has shown how horrible he would be in a crisis. Even today, he and his ilk like AOC, Warren, Omar, etc., have nothing more than class warfare and socialized medicine to discuss.
Still, Trump definitely made a royal mess of things and looks like a fool too. Would Biden, Clinton, or Sanders have handled it differently? That’s the question you need to ask yourself.
Reminder: Obama allowed 60 million Americans to get infected with Swine Flu. Ultimately it didn’t turn out to be too deadly thank G-d but IIRC the fatality rate was extremely uncertain in the early days and we still all got infected. Obama gets no credit for the lower death rate, that’s just the way it was. Just food for thought.
I’m not blaming Obama either. In a country that promotes individual freedom and choice above all else the government is very limited in what it can do to contain a virus when the public is not cooperating or aware of the extent of the devastation.
This is the real point. The time was available. We even got some extra time through the travel ban, which was a great move. They then went ahead and squadered it. Is some of that because the impeachment process was a distraction? Most definitely, but that is not an excuse. At the end of the day the POTUS is still responsible.
Clinton is irrelevant. She is old news. Sanders has shown how horrible he would be in a crisis. Even today, he and his ilk like AOC, Warren, Omar, etc., have nothing more than class warfare and socialized medicine to discuss.
Biden has one thing going for him, which is that he would be more inclined to listen to experts. The concern of course is that he is showing very clear signs of dementia.
Trump can only discuss what it has to do with him. That is very dangerous. He may also be showing some early signs of Alzheimers.
At the end of the day, "pick your poison" is a gross understatement.
On the other hand, the way it was reported at the time was that all of the experts were playing it down. Maybe he listened to the experts too much?
The one thing missing from all these speculations is direct contact. The administration has open lines of communication with China, as well as innumerable back channel connections. Do you really think Trump says the things he says in Dec, Jan, and Feb unless he's getting info from China telling him that it's just a flu, or that they have it under control? To Trump's mind, why would China lie? China is trying to usurp the US as the undisputed leader of the world. Yes, this may kill 1 million Americans and cripple the US economy, but it would also make China the world's most hated country for letting this spread globally and causing tens, if not hundreds, of millions of deaths.Conspiracy theorist much?
The real question is, why did China lie? What's the benefit? What's the end-game?
The real question is, why did China lie? What's the benefit? What's the end-game?At first they were try to prevent it from being another SARS then they were backed into a corner from their lies so they needed to pile more lies on top of it hoping it would pass over and end up like SARS
Conspiracy theorist much?
At first they were try to prevent it from being another SARS then they were backed into a corner from their lies so they needed to pile more lies on top of it hoping it would pass over and end up like SARS
So you think it started off innocent. They thought they had it under control, then had to lie to cover up when they lost control. And then continued to lie, because the world was going to blame them anyway, so they went all in.Which part of what I wrote are you considering innocent?
Based on this theory, when exactly was our government supposed to have reacted differently? 2019? January, February, March?
Which part of what I wrote are you considering innocent?
At the same time that the travel ban was put in place at the middle to end of Jan when it was apparent that this was highly contagious they should have begun preparing for the likelihood of it reaching our shores.
That they honestly didn't realize the severity and the risk.I am sur ethey didn't when the first reports were coming in during December. They thought it was SARS and wanted to cover that up. That isn't too innocent. Had they taken it seriously during those first few weeks it could have possibly stopped the whole thing.
That they honestly didn't realize the severity and the risk.We saw that it was contagious. It didn't take much to see that.
To play devil's advocate, maybe the travel ban wasn't because we realized it was highly contagious, but just because China told us they had it under control, and it was becoming apparent that they didn't. The travel ban could have been our shot across the bow, tellng China to get their house in order.
We saw that it was contagious. It didn't take much to see that.Look at the date
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG
— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020
Look at the datePreliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. pic.twitter.com/Fnl5P877VG
— World Health Organization (WHO) (@WHO) January 14, 2020
We saw that it was contagious. It didn't take much to see that.
Yeah but we were getting news about how China was enacting such severe lockdowns.
I did read articles about how there were people who had left at the beginning.
This is part of the reason I was upset at New York I figured that once it already reached New York, The entire New York New Jersey area would be infected soon.
And I knew that me and Miami would be not far behind.
FTR, it is likely that NYC came from MIA
Let's not forget the idiocy of some conservative talking heads.I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.
(Besides his ignorance over the number 19 in COVID-19)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUnKAJJWAAUsgLp?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUnKAJHXkAcRaQ1?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.
I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.
MIA had issues from the get go in terms of cruise ships.Patient zero in New Rochelle caught it in MIA.
I thought NYC came from Italy and or Israel ?
Patient zero in New Rochelle caught it in MIA.We don't know that.
I think much of the complacency within our community resulted from people like this.Yup. Many conservative talk radio junkies said for weeks that it was all media propaganda.
Yup. Many conservative talk radio junkies said for weeks that it was all media propaganda.The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.They accused him of overreacting with the travel ban.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.It doesn't matter that you're right. What matters is what actually happened and what cost people's lives.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
It doesn't matter that you're right. What matters is what actually happened and what cost people's lives.
I think it was a no-win for Trump (or any leader).
If you take extreme measures right away and minimize the death toll, you over-reacted. "We would have beaten this thing anyway because our healthcare system, or (insert other country) only got it bad because they did x wrong, or ...(insert excuse here). Now our economy is a mess. This guy isn't fit to lead. He's too reactionary."
If you don't react quick enough, you're an idiot who either listens to his advisers too much or not enough, you're a murderer with blood on your hands, you're the reason for all bad things, you're not fit to lead because (insert accusation here).
There is no happy ending for anyone here. You will always be second-guessed while you're acting, and judged after the fact by everyone wearing 20/20 hindsight glasses.
Right, which is why it helps to have a leader that cares more about keeping people alive than good approval ratings. Alas, such people are hard to come by.Conversely, it would help to have a media that cares more about keeping people alive than ratings and political agendas. Alas, such people are hard to come by.
Right, which is why it helps to have a leader that cares more about keeping people alive than good approval ratings. Alas, such people are hard to come by.
Can anyone show me a politician who has handled this properly, in a way that didn't cost any lives? I don't know why we keep pointing fingers, as if anyone else did it (or is doing it) right.
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on.Probably because he decided to take these guys seriously for once
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUhN5aIWkAATlag?format=jpg&name=large)
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.&feature=youtu.be
This NYTimes piece listing stages of conservative coverage of the virus is a perfect illustration of the lack of self-awareness from MSM on their own awful coverage.https://t.co/DcL2sIeQ75
— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) April 2, 2020
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.&feature=youtu.be
&feature=youtu.be
I think the truth is pretty much out there if you just look back at the official announcements coming out for the past 2 months. Digging deeper won't be pretty though.
Trump looked at this as just the flu, 15 will be 0, it will blow over, a D hoax and the list goes on. This was into late February. Everyone on FOX made fun of this. FOX is where he gets his info from. R's made fun of it on the house floor. Now everyone wants to rewrite history.&feature=youtu.be
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.As my friend Chaim Moscowitz used to say, "ding ding ding"
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.Some are trying to rewrite history. Not going to let that happen. Listen to Trumps own words. I guess they can claim he didn't say that just like Trump did when the reporter read his exact quote and he called it fake news.
As my friend Chaim Moscowitz used to say, "ding ding ding"
CM had friends?Friends, slaves, it's all the same.
Some are trying to rewrite history. Not going to let that happen. Listen to Trumps own words. I guess they can claim he didn't say that just like Trump did when the reporter read his exact quote and he called it fake news.I don't know what you are referring to with the reporter, but context matters.
I don't know what you are referring to with the reporter, but context matters.He's probably talking about that thing a few days ago (maybe last week?) where that CNN reporter accused Trump of something, then read his full quote proving that Trump actually said the opposite of what he accused him of.
He's probably talking about that thing a few days ago (maybe last week?) where that CNN reporter accused Trump of something, then read his full quote proving that Trump actually said the opposite of what he accused him of.Ahh makes sense.
Um, isn't that the most important question here?
The only real problem here is if the CDC came to Trump and said "this is gonna be bad, we need to do xyz to prepare" and he told them to stand down.
New Rule: If you are criticizing the President's timing of decisions, you have to produce a witness who was in the room and watched him ignoring advice from a consensus of experts.
— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) April 2, 2020
Completely incompetent in a time of crisis. They can't even get a simple thing like masks right.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp)
But Adams on Wednesday said that the administration was rethinking its guidance. "We've asked the CDC to take another look at whether or not having more people wear masks will prevent transmission of the disease to other people," Adams said on ABC's "Good Morning America."I assume your problem here is that the administration should just trust that the CDC has been right and should not have them reexamine whether their recommendations until now have been correct?
Completely incompetent in a time of crisis. They can't even get a simple thing like masks right.
Completely incompetent in a time of crisis. They can't even get a simple thing like masks right.Which one do want him to do? Listen to experts or not?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-set-to-urge-americans-to-wear-face-coverings-when-outside/ar-BB125M6I?&ocid=spartanntp
Pause. Again, I ask you: who has been doing it better? Show me a politician responsible for anything during this crisis, anywhere in the world, and I will show you incompetence.It seems your yard stick is what other countries are doing. Other countries have done a better job than us. You are not aware of this.
I don't like the man. He's vile. But this is not on him. Could he have done better? 100%. But break down what he has said vs the CDC, WHO, and other world leaders, and you'll find them all guilty of the same things.
For the love of G-d, give me a name!!Country - South Korea
State - NewsomIn what way?
Country - South Korea
State - Newsom
My point stands.You just spun it into what you wanted. You ask to name one and I did. The point is SK has done a better job than the US.
Why isn't the whole nation on lockdown? How many must die before people wake up?Because that is reserved to the states...by the Constitution. Now you're going to blame Trump for the Constitution? And 100k-240k sounds about right before we wake up that Dr. Fauci knows what he's talking about and this nation reaps what it sows...idiots who cant follow simple instructions.
Why isn't the whole nation on lockdown? How many must die before people wake up?Because
More like after hearing the governors say he never consulted them and a quarantine was illegal.
You just spun it into what you wanted. You ask to name one and I did. The point is SK has done a better job than the US.
We are on the same trajectory as Italy which has failed.
They are talking about 100k to 240k deaths and you act like no one could do better.
This is the same logic that got us this idiot in the first. Just listen to him speak. He is clueless with what is going on. He claimed today that a scarf is as good or better than a mask. How can you possibly think anyone with a once of common sense could not do better.
For the record, I think that projection is low, which should underscore how serious I think this is. That being said, you gave me a virtual island with powers over their people that cannot be enacted here, both legally and realistically. Are you suggesting that having anyone else as president would allow us to enforce South Korea's measures?Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?
Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?I don't care about anyone else. If the rest of the world is a bunch of morons do we have to be one to? >:(
Btw, we're not just on the same trajectory as Italy. We're on the same road as most of Europe. If Trump is such a failure and literally anyone else could do a better job, why aren't they?I don't care about anyone else. If the rest of the world is a bunch of morons do we have to be one to? >:(
Don't know how many times I said this but it is drip drip drip. Get a plan together and execute it.
If a part goes wrong on your machine, you have a faulty part. If the same part is broken on all the machines, maybe it's not about your particular part?Then get the part from Israel, Belgium, South Korea, Turkey, Russia or many other countries.
The sad thing is they were most likely right about it being propaganda to the media.I think anyone paying attention to what @yuneeq was saying knew this was the time they were right.
If you want to argue that this was a case of "even a stopped clock is right twice a day," and this time they happened to have been right, I can accept that. But does anyone here believe that had Trump been taking it seriously and been all gung-ho about fighting it these very same media would not have been the ones downplaying it and accusing him of overreacting?
Then get the part from Israel, Belgium, South Korea, Turkey, Russia or many other countries.
1k people die in one day and you claim no one can do better than an idiot who claimed 15 would 0.
You want Israel? The man literally flew the infection into his country by the thousands and refused to let his minister quarantine them. Watch the numbers in Israel for the next 2 weeks.It does not mater who it is you will just spin it the way you want.
You want Belgium? Their covid mortality rate is 6.5%.
You want South Korea? We've gone over this before...
You want Russia? Putin? Really?
Turkey? Edrogen? You gotta be kidding me...
Come one, give me some more!
It does not mater who it is you will just spin it the way you want.
Look how you just spun Israel.
I think anyone paying attention to what @yuneeq was saying knew this was the time they were right.But again, that brings us back to the question of did the CDC or FEMA or whoever want to act and he told them not to? Or are we just saying that he should've been the one to realize it's a big deal.
Try me. I didn't spin Israel, read the other threads. I've been saying the same thing about Israel all week. Go to www.timesofisrael.com. I don't need to spin anything.
Try me. I didn't spin Israel, read the other threads. I've been saying the same thing about Israel all week. Go to www.timesofisrael.com. I don't need to spin anything.Doesn't Israel have a .5% fatality rate? The same says as Australia?
Doesn't Israel have a .5% fatality rate? The same says as Australia?
Israel had 10 fatalities today. Their mortality rate is rising, and the hospitals are petrified about what will happen when the cases start rolling in from Bnei Brak.Leave it be you are not changing his mind.
Australia has handled this exceptionally well. They started screening passengers from China on Jan 23, which means they started taking this seriously before the WHO. I can only speculate, but it appears the high volume of travel they get from China had them on alert before (most) anyone else.
My point isn't that Trump is doing a good job; it's that there aren't really too many examples of other people or countries doing it better. There are few blunders that were made exclusively by this administration. To me, that takes a lot of bite out of the postmortem dissection that is coming on how they handled this.
My point isn't that Trump is doing a good job; it's that there aren't really too many examples of other people or countries doing it better. There are few blunders that were made exclusively by this administration. To me, that takes a lot of bite out of the postmortem dissection that is coming on how they handled this.Day after day he made stupid ignorant comments that showed he did not take this serious and wasted precious time. That alone is a major blunder that in the end will cost lives.
It case anyone forgot how time was wasted.&feature=youtu.be
Hmm. I must have seen this somewhere before. :)...and you will keep seeing it anytime some idiot tries to rewrite history. FACTS MATTER!!! ;)
...and you will keep seeing it anytime some idiot tries to rewrite history. FACTS MATTER!!! ;)
Australia has handled this exceptionally well. They started screening passengers from China on Jan 23, which means they started taking this seriously before the WHO. I can only speculate, but it appears the high volume of travel they get from China had them on alert before (most) anyone else.
OT, but I wonder how much Australia's wildfires played a part in their low numbers. I don't know the stats, but it's possible they had many fewer people leaving or coming from other countries due to the fires....and he is back! :)
...and he is back! :)
Lets find every feeble excuse why another country or state is not doing a better job than Trump.
We need market updates.
You're just like Trump... ignore the facts, and keep banging that drum! 15 becomes 0 is your Build the Wall. Are you gonna give me a slightly insulting nickname?The fact is they had forest fires. It is not a fact that is the reason the numbers are lower. Yes one of us is like Trump, it just isn't me. :P
...and he is back! :)Just the facts.....
Lets find every feeble excuse why another country or state is not doing a better job than Trump.
We need market updates.
The fact is they had forest fires. It is not a fact that is the reason the numbers are lower. Yes one of us is like Trump, it just isn't me. :PThis is written about this post
OT, but I wonder how much Australia's wildfires played a part in their low numbers. I don't know the stats, but it's possible they had many fewer people leaving or coming from other countries due to the fires.Note:
Let me ask you a question. Why are the R's trying so hard to blame everyone else for Trumps inaction?Do you need help with this one? @Lurker
Do you need help with this one? @Lurker
Nope, very simple. The answer is because they are politicians. It's the same reason D's keep trying to make this Trump's fault. It's what they do.You missed the point. If his inaction didn't make the situation worse why are they trying to blame everyone else for it?
You missed the point. If his inaction didn't make the situation worse why are they trying to blame everyone else for it?
No, you missed the point. Who was acting that Trump's inaction sticks out?So no states took action before Trump did? Trying to rewrite history again?
Anyone that is blaming **anyone** for them not realizing how bad this would be should first let us all know if they sold their stocks in February before the markets tanked. Did they stock up then on items like masks etc. Since it was so clear that this would happen what did they do to prepare?
Speaking of politicians and their blunders, can anyone find that clip that was posted about the Netherlands? The one that hasn't aged well about their superior plan with herd immunity?Same for England
Looks like I get a free pass :DThat becomes a question of what the experts were saying. What was the CDC saying? What was WHO saying? Etc? Data is always based on its interpretation.
But regarding your point, the politicians that are privy to much better data than average American, should be blamed for their inaction. They told everyone that everything is fine, so it is ok to point fingers.
Speaking of politicians and their blunders, can anyone find that clip that was posted about the Netherlands? The one that hasn't aged well about their superior plan with herd immunity?...but officer he was speeding to?
If Trump had never mentioned it in the first place it would have been widely accepted as treatment by now. Trumps big mouth has cost people their lives!
— Steve (@Stvrob_63) April 2, 2020
I love all this slight on hand and misdirection. Read the title of the thread.
If you feel any of the blunders was not a blunder then state why. Saying someone else made the same blunder is just admitting it was a blunder.
Question: if the blunder was listening to the WHO or CDC, is that an administration blunder? What about listening to conventional wisdom? I just want to make sure I understand what you consider an "administration blunder" so I don't miss any.You assume he is listening to someone. That is his major blunder since he took office. He doesn't listen to anyone.
Btw, what flavor is your Kool-Aid? Never Trump Naranja?
Trump refuses to enact a national stay at home order. Blunder after blunder!!!Oh please. North Dakota has 186 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? New Mexico has 495 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? Let each state do what is best for their state...
Eight states still have no stay at home orders. Anyone want to guess what party the governors of all eight states are from? Blunder after blunder!!!
Oh please. North Dakota has 186 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? New Mexico has 495 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? Let each state do what is best for their state...Didn't NY have 186 cases at one point? How about New Jersey, didn't they have 495 cases at one point?
Didn't NY have 186 cases at one point? How about New Jersey, didn't they have 495 cases at one point?So why not lock down the entire country of 325M+ when there was one case?
How ignorant and clueless some still are. You think all being run by R governors is just a coincidence? Do they need to see deaths that Trump sees to finally takes this serious after months of inaction? How much blood they going to have on their hands just like Trump?
Speaking about ignorant and stupid just look what this moron said: When asked about data showing states' need for equipment, Kushner said, "The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be our stockpile. It's not supposed to be states' stockpiles that they then use."
So why not lock down the entire country of 325M+ when there was one case?The best way to combat this is on a national level. The eight R governors think they know more than the rest of the country and more importantly think they know more than the experts. Where do you think they get that from?
The fact is there are states and regions that do not have the density of NY/NJ and will never have as many cases. There needs to be a balance. The Feds cannot impose one standard across so many different states and regions.
Oh please. North Dakota has 186 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted? New Mexico has 495 confirmed cases, is a federal stay at home order warranted?Here is the two states you mention. Do their graphs look familiar?
The best way to combat this is on a national level. The eight R governors think they know more than the rest of the country and more importantly think they know more than the experts. Where do you think they get that from?There is a legal ruling called a stay. Not sure if you heard of it.
Now a national lockdown would be challenged in the courts. By the time it gets decided hopefully this will be under control.
The best way to combat this is on a national level. The eight R governors think they know more than the rest of the country and more importantly think they know more than the experts. Where do you think they get that from?A federal lockdown is probably unconstitutional. It would immediately be challenged in court and implementation would be frozen pending the outcome of the lawsuit.
Now a national lockdown would be challenged in the courts. By the time it gets decided hopefully this will be under control.
Didn't NY have 186 cases at one point? How about New Jersey, didn't they have 495 cases at one point?Gov of NM is a Democrat.
How ignorant and clueless some still are. You think all being run by R governors is just a coincidence? Do they need to see deaths that Trump sees to finally takes this serious after months of inaction? How much blood they going to have on their hands just like Trump?
Speaking about ignorant and stupid just look what this moron said: When asked about data showing states' need for equipment, Kushner said, "The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be our stockpile. It's not supposed to be states' stockpiles that they then use."
A federal lockdown is probably unconstitutional. It would immediately be challenged in court and implementation would be frozen pending the outcome of the lawsuit.When there is a national emergency/crisis the courts will probably side with the government.
Gov of NM is a Democrat.NM is not one of the eight states.
The states without a lockdown are mostly rural hence there is much less spread.
Gov of NM is a Democrat.#facts
The states without a lockdown are mostly rural hence there is much less spread.
Bill de Blasio Rejects Claim U.S. Knew Asymptomatic People Could Spread the Virus: Only Learned That 'In the Last 48 Hours’ https://t.co/ohj74tr594 via @mediaite
— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) April 4, 2020
Speaking of stupid RsMaybe those who are using other idiots to try and explain all the blunders the WH made should stop?
We are being led by idiots. It's bipartisan idiocy. Just stop with D 'n R stuff and let it die.
Maybe those who are using other idiots to try and explain all the blunders the WH made should stop?Maybe those who are blaming party affiliation for blunders should stop. I've literally posted on this forum that I believe Trump will come out of this with blood on his hands. Your obsession, however, is almost certainly doing *you* harm. Relax, drink something good, and talk about something else.
Maybe those who are blaming party affiliation for blunders should stop. I've literally posted on this forum that I believe Trump will come out of this with blood on his hands. Your obsession, however, is almost certainly doing *you* harm. Relax, drink something good, and talk about something else.I am blaming Trump for the WH blunders. You really think I care if he is a R or D?
I am blaming Trump for the WH blunders. You really think I care if he is a R or D?There's an old chassidic expression that usually people speak about themselves when their true intent is to speak about others. At a farbrengen (do you know that one?), one speaks to others, but is referring to oneself. Today is a farbrengen day.
I find it odd you giving me advice about obsessions doing more harm than good.
At a farbrengen (do you know that one?), one speaks to others, but is referring to oneself. Today is a farbrengen day.Yes I know that one and now I understand your comment.
I am blaming Trump for the WH blunders. You really think I care if he is a R or D?
I find it odd you giving me advice about obsessions doing more harm than good.
Why are the holdouts R's?
Seems that is ALL you care about.
Trump did a terrible job preparing us for this crisis.
His advisors did an even worse job preparing him.
His opposition did an even worse job than all of them in opposing travel bans and logical ways to slow the spread. Had we shut everything down early and ordered companies to make supplies then we'd be in a very different place.
The CDC did an even worse job in opposing masks until Friday. How long will it take until they're mandatory like in 1918?
I mean, my comment came immidiately after his mention of R holdouts. Then came the "I'm talking about the WH" response, and around and round we go.You want to dispute the blunders listed go right ahead. We will leave all other R's and D's out of it.
His advisors did an even worse job preparing him.How do you know this? Was the travel ban Trumps idea or did he do it kicking and screaming? We know he loves to ban others from coming to the US unless it is Denmark.
How do you know this? Was the travel ban Trumps idea or did he do it kicking and screaming? We know he loves to ban others from coming to the US unless it is Denmark.I'm talking about convincing him that COVID-19 would be a disaster and was not the flu.
This is going to be my last post on this subject, primarily because I enjoy reading @CountValentine's post on other threads, and I don't want this thread to ruin that.No need to worry about that.
I think the biggest realization to come out of all this, will be as it says in Tehillim, chapter 146. "Do not trust in princes, in the son of man, who has no salvation. His spirit leaves, he returns to his soil; on that day, his thoughts are lost."You were on a roll but you just had to add this? ;)
How do you know this? Was the travel ban Trumps idea or did he do it kicking and screaming? We know he loves to ban others from coming to the US unless it is Denmark.
I'm talking about convincing him that COVID-19 would be a disaster and was not the flu.They can only do so much. I thought they had him convinced then at yesterdays news conference he went off the rails again.
Canada put in place a ban against all non citizens, they are run by the left leaning liberals. Maybe banning people to come in isn’t politics, it’s smart.You need to look at persons history and not just isolated incidents.
It will also come out about every other country on earth, as well as organizations tasked with keeping us safe, such as the WHO and their ilk.I'm just quoting this as the most recent easily accessible example of this type of comment, not singling out you in particular.
And the fact that others did a bad job is not in any way, shape or form a defense for those that did a bad job.Hopefully it might sink in coming from you. I tried 100 different ways.
Is this a blunder?Utterly ridiculous. Completely incomparable. We would have helped them in that situation too, but when we both have a tower collapsing, well, put on your oxygen mask before assisting other passengers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/premier-infuriated-by-trump-says-canada-helped-us-amid-9-11/ar-BB12c5MB?li=BBnbfcL
Utterly ridiculous. Completely incomparable. We would have helped them in that situation too, but when we both have a tower collapsing, well, put on your oxygen mask before assisting other passengers.I agree not comparable but should we stop medical supplies. IIRC at a press conference Trump claimed he didn't stop supplies going to Europe but could have.
I agree not comparable but should we stop medical supplies. IIRC at a press conference Trump claimed he didn't stop supplies going to Europe but could have.We don’t have enough in this country, why should we ship any out? If we’re sending to Europe I don’t understand that at all.
We don’t have enough in this country, why should we ship any out?It is one of those tough decisions.
I’m a US citizen living in Canada, Trump should not stop them. Certain materials that are used to produce masks come from Canada and part of the Detroit medical staff live in Canada and cross the border daily. In a medical supplies border war no one wins.Huh? Canada is tougher on Americans coming in than America is on Canadians coming in to America right now
This is just some nationalistic propaganda by the trump administration . Just like he tried to put US soldiers at the Canadian border last week for no good reason.
Politically he can only lose by sending them out while we have a shortage.
Correct, but that’s all it is, political, not necessarily smart.But he is a politician and politics is what matters most to him for better or worse.
Correct, but that’s all it is, political, not necessarily smart.can you please explain how it's smart to send what is in short supply? I'm trying to understand your logic but I don't get it.
Sort of surprised to the answers so far. No one feels that even when things are in short supply you should not show compassion?
We're the Titanic and we're going down without enough life boats. Do we send some life boats to the other ship that also might need them?Would you give your life vest to a child you did not know or was from a different country?
If we send out life-saving equipment today, and it costs US lives tomorrow, it will be inexcusable.Should states not send ventilators to NYC because they might need them later on?
Sort of surprised to the answers so far. No one feels that even when things are in short supply you should not show compassion?
Should states not send ventilators to NYC because they might need them later on?
Would you give your life vest to a child you did not know or was from a different country? Should states not send ventilators to NYC because they might need them later on?
I am not saying you are wrong just not the answers I expected especially on this forum.
I am not saying you are wrong just not the answers I expected especially on this forum.This is very much the Jewish religious view.
Let's start with the child example. We're not talking about children. We're talking adults to adults. Just because they're Canadian doesn't mean they're somehow less self-sufficient.Well said. Let's not twist this any more.
Regarding the answers you're seeing, the thread is about administration blunders. From a political perspective, the administration answers to the people of the US and is responsible for their well-being. They would be derelict in their duty if they sent vital equipment out of the country to the detriment of US lives.
Regarding states sending equipment to NYC, it depends on the details. Who owns the equipment? Is it the state? Is it private healthcare providers? Is it federally owned but on loan or stored in certain states? You also have certain states that are virtually guaranteed to not get hit nearly as hard as NY, both by virtue of population density and by the benefit of learning from NY's mistakes and taking extra precautions earlier.
I never said this was a blunder by the administration. You learn by asking questions. Unfortunately I am saddened by what I just learned. Lets move on.You have one dose of medicine. You can save your parent or you can give it to a stranger in need. Either will die without it.
I never said this was a blunder by the administration. You learn by asking questions. Unfortunately I am saddened by what I just learned. Lets move on.
You have one dose of medicine. You can save your parent or you can give it to a stranger in need. Either will die without it.Your parent.
Who gets it?
As a head of household, responsible for the wellbeing of your family, would you send out life saving equipment your family might need? What if you were virtually guaranteed to need it in the very near future?Yes with the belief I will find more when the time comes.
Your parent.So this is semantics. No hospital in the country has this kind of excess PPE now. If they did then you would be correct.
You have food that will last you for a month. Your neighbors are starving. Do you share some of it with them?
So this is semantics.Your question was semantics also. I gave you a straight answer. I guess it was to much for me to expect the same in return.
Your question was semantics also. I gave you a straight answer. I guess it was to much for me to expect the same in return.
If they did then you would be correct.
Yes with the belief I will find more when the time comes.What if the time is right now?
I think the difference in opinion here stems from two missing pieces of data: a) how soon will we need it ourselves, and b) how soon can we replace it?Exactly.
I think the difference in opinion here stems from two missing pieces of data: a) how soon will we need it ourselves, and b) how soon can we replace it?The difference in opinion goes a lot deeper than that.
The difference in opinion goes a lot deeper than that.Not that I'm seeing.
I guess we have a different opinion of a straight answer. :)
The difference in opinion goes a lot deeper than that.I think you are mistaken. I think that the difference between Dan's analogy and yours pretty much sums it up. You were asking based on a hypothetical while everyone here answered based on the reality we are in.
You have one dose of medicine. You can save your parent or you can give it to a stranger in need. Either will die without it.
Who gets it?
Your parent.
You have food that will last you for a month. Your neighbors are starving. Do you share some of it with them?
Not that I'm seeing.We agree on that. We can continue this after I give a couple of my N95 masks to my neighbor who does not have any. ;)
We agree on that. We can continue this after I give a couple of my N95 masks to my neighbor who does not have any. ;)
I think you are mistaken. I think that the difference between Dan's analogy and yours pretty much sums it up. You were asking based on a hypothetical while everyone here answered based on the reality we are in.+1K
How many do you have? How long will they last you?No need to go on with this. You all made your position loud and clear.
There is a difference between Canada and other countries. Canada does not have that many people compared to the US, so they wouldn’t need such a large supply to make them happy.
People have to realize that we get from Canada certain medical materials, and there are some Canadian that work in US hospitals. Ontario Canada is closer to large cities such as Detroit and New York than many other areas in the US. With NY already in short supply of medical professionals why anger you neighbours when you might need them.
There is a difference between Canada and other countries. Canada does not have that many people compared to the US, so they wouldn’t need such a large supply to make them happy.I don't really understnad how it can be expected that at the same time as we are scrambling to get masks for our own hospitals we should be sending what we have away.
People have to realize that we get from Canada certain medical materials, and there are some Canadian that work in US hospitals. Ontario Canada is closer to large cities such as Detroit and New York than many other areas in the US. With NY already in short supply of medical professionals why anger you neighbours when you might need them.
I don't really understnad how it can be expected that at the same time as we are scrambling to get masks for our own hospitals we should be sending what we have away.
What happens when the Canadians become desperate and refuse to send any medical personal across the border, or threaten not to export any materials used for medical supplies. Was it worth it for masks?I can hear a case made for keeping Canadian medical personnel in Canada if they are needed there, but many will just stay in the US for the higher pay with private medicine which is why they work there in the first place.
Trudea can declare an emergency of some sort and deny any medical personal from leaving Canada. That would cripple the Detroit medical system as many of them are Canadians, plus it would deny New York the possibility of Canadian medical professionals coming over to help. Trudeau would score political points for doing such a move in retaliation to the US ban on exports.The question is why it should be a trade war to not leave our medical staff who are currently being much more heavily affected than Canada to be exposed. Canada has MUCH fewer cases than the US. why should masks be sent to Canada to stockpile while workers here are inadequately protected? That someone would start talking trade war over it is like all of the hoarders and price gougers.
I’m not sure why we want a dumb medical trade war in middle of all this.
WH needs to stop messing around and issue a national stay-at-home order NOW!!!
WH needs to stop messing around and issue a national stay-at-home order NOW!!!As seen in yesterday's roundup.
I'm not disagreeing, but how would this be enforced?Issue it first and see the response.
WH needs to stop messing around and issue a national stay-at-home order NOW!!!Why? There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is not necessary.
Why? There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is still not necessary.FTFY
Why? There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is not necessary.
If you think we can all agree, you haven't been paying attention.Lol
There are many regions where I'm sure we can all agree this is not necessary.I think we can all agree you lost your mind. :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU7-Jv3X0AQvCfp?format=jpg&name=medium)In powerful show of defiance of #coronavirus scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC's Chinatown for ceremony ahead of annual #LunarNewYear parade. Chants of "be strong Wuhan!"
— Mark D. Levine (@MarkLevineNYC) February 9, 2020
If you are staying away, you are missing out! pic.twitter.com/NGBUAfHWpl
Trump calling this the Chinese virus.
why should we care about this of all things?Maybe because there was an uptick in violence against Asians right after this?
Maybe because there was an uptick in violence against Asians right after this?
proof? and how do we know the uptick was related to that and not the fact that the virus was spreading and people were anyways getting more angry at the chinese?The same way I know the current videos about Jewish gatherings is based in anti-Semitism. Sometimes you just need to use common sense.
@Yehuda57 your hamster got loose againLook what happens when you give it to CV to watch for Pesach
@Yehuda57 your hamster got loose again>:( >:( >:(
@Yehuda57 your hamster got loose againI call him Chaim.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Look what happens when you give it to CV to watch for PesachNot to worry, looks like one of his dogs got loose.
Sometimes you just need to use common sense.
I call him Chaim.He goes by Hymie, you know, for parnassah
He goes by Hymie, you know, for parnassahHT Jessie Jackson.
He goes by Hymie, you know, for parnassahHe has feelings. >:(
He has feelings. >:(Facts don't care about hamster feelings
The cross Border blunder was taken care of.Common sense wins out.
I am very pleased that a resolution has been reached between 3M and the U.S. administration. I want to thank 3M and officials on both sides of the border for their support to ensure Canada’s continued access to vital PPE. We are stronger together.
Doug Ford
When others are all using that argument against you then the issue is not them. ;)
My wife uses that argument when she doesn't have anything logical to say...
When others are all using that argument against you then the issue is not them. ;)I have a feeling you're gonna regret posting this ;)
I have a feeling you're gonna regret posting this ;)Can you star a post? (asking for those who don't have the memory of an elefant)
Can you star a post? (asking for those who don't have the memory of an elefant)Sure, it's in your URL bar ;)
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?Yes, you are way, way off.
Common sense wins out.
Yes, you are way, way off.I felt like you were a fan of him by the way you wrote about him in the Sunday round up :) I love those round ups btw. Thx !
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?You are wrong. Fauci is just Gate's puppet
Tremendous content. Won't blow up because she didn't say Soros, but this is really a tweet of astounding beauty. What was twitter? they'll ask. It was this, we'll say. It was the darkness that lives within us all, set free. pic.twitter.com/Q3X5Asdp8S
— Seth Mandel (@SethAMandel) April 7, 2020
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?Rather overshoot then underestimate. If he would say, for example, that 10k ppl would die everyone will be screaming from the rooftops for him to resign..
I feel like Dr Fauci doesn’t want this thing to end because he’s getting too much attention with this. Daily White House briefings with the president, etc. He keeps on saying it’s going to be bad. “Doesn’t see the country coming back to normal “ “ it can return every year” I don’t trust what he says. Anyone feel the same ? Am I way off ?Who do you trust? How about Dr Brix?
Rather overshoot then underestimate. If he would say, for example, that 10k ppl would die everyone will be screaming from the rooftops for him to resign..It’s always easier to take extreme safety way out. The trick is to get it correct. Here he seems to be way off. It’s like that rav that says everything is asur. Saying something is mutor is alot harder.
Who do you trust? How about Dr Brix?I don’t have too much faith in doctors in general. I would go to one for his experience. In this virus there isn’t too much experience and we see how their doing.
I don’t have too much faith in doctors in general. I would go to one for his experience. In this virus there isn’t too much experience and we see how their doing.How about the geeks that put the projections together?
How about the geeks that put the projections together?Between themselves you’ll have projected from 10k - 5 million deaths
Between themselves you’ll have projected from 10k - 5 million deathsWhere do you get the figures you have faith in?
Where do you get the figures you have faith in?I don’t know figures so I keep quiet. If it’s just a guessing game then I can guess myself as well. I’ll make a big salary by just guessing ? I’m in
Please don't say FOX. :)
It’s always easier to take extreme safety way out. The trick is to get it correct. Here he seems to be way off. It’s like that rav that says everything is asur. Saying something is mutor is alot harder.As he clearly stated, there are a few models. They basically go with the middle scenario while readying for the worst case scenario.
***BOMBSHELL ALERT***Bombshell because you found someone that said so?
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
Bombshell because you found someone that said so?It is a high ranking WH official.
I said so as well...
It is a high ranking WH official.I agree that the US, Trump, CDC, Governor's/Mayor's were all late to the party.
It fits perfectly with the title. I just want the unbiased truth. ;)
As he clearly stated, there are a few models. They basically go with the middle scenario while readying for the worst case scenario.
They are saying that in NY they are BH way under the initial estimation.
While I don't usually post links to sites like this, they link to a reliable source.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/latest-numbers-govt-models-overestimated-hospitalizations-8-times-icu-beds-6-4-times-ventilators-needed-40-5-times/
Trump as president obviously should be held accountable, but so should everyone else.I will take Trump and you can have the rest.
I don’t have too much faith in doctors in general.
Faith? Faith I have in G-d. And G-d instructs me to follow doctors' orders.Que up Chaim. :)
While I don't usually post links to sites like this, they link to a reliable source.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/latest-numbers-govt-models-overestimated-hospitalizations-8-times-icu-beds-6-4-times-ventilators-needed-40-5-times/
He overreacted! It's a liberal conspiracy to ruin the economy! He's weak, he's reactive, he's not fit to lead! He doesn't take action quick enough? He's Trump! Too full of himself, a complete moron, not fit to lead!You learn quicker than most here. 8)
If anything that's because they took very swift action..Definitely not "very swift action". That I would reserve for Israel's response.
This virus has not gone away. Worse yet, if people have a false sense of security It's going to get much worse
I will take Trump and you can have the rest.I'm sure you couldn't go a day without him...
The comments on that article are the reason this was always a no-win for Trump (or any politician). The numbers come back lower because of action taken? He overreacted! It's a liberal conspiracy to ruin the economy! He's weak, he's reactive, he's not fit to lead! He doesn't take action quick enough? He's Trump! Too full of himself, a complete moron, not fit to lead!Sounds about right for an election season
***BOMBSHELL ALERT***This is MASSIVE!!!
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
***BOMBSHELL ALERT***
When is the last time we had one of those? :)
CNN (don't laugh) is reporting Peter Navarro circulated a memo back in January if this virus goes uncheck it could cost 100k's of lives and trillions of dollars.
Isn’t this routine when you have intelligence and staffers who sit all day and write reports suggesting various outlying scenarios/outcomes? Do we even know if the President heard about this?This isn't some staffer. It is a high ranking WH official who is (see signature). The travel ban came the next day. What information prompted the travel ban?
This isn't some staffer. It is a high ranking WH official who is (see signature). The travel ban came the next day. What information prompted the travel ban?
What did he know and when did he know it. Like the title asks will the truth come out. I am pretty confident it will.
America is so jaded they will vote for their party despite the incompetence of any specific candidate.Even if The president messed up on certain things (which he definitely did) those that will vote for him will tell you that overall he has done many good things and the alternative is much worse. Do you think Biden or Sanders would have done a better job? (I don't).
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-new-york-city-emergency-ventilator-stockpile-ended-up-on-the-auction-block (https://www.propublica.org/article/how-new-york-city-emergency-ventilator-stockpile-ended-up-on-the-auction-block)Wait this thread was started to criticize Trump not to criticize democrats.
https://gothamist.com/news/missteps-mayor-bill-de-blasios-coronavirus-response
Wait this thread was started to criticize Trump not to criticize democrats.You mean it wasn't referring to NYC?
Wait this thread was started to criticize Trump not to criticize democrats.It is to list the blunders the WH made. Some are in the wiki if you missed them.
I brought up earlier how the US was blocking masks to Canada. Almost everyone here agreed with that. Since then we are now no longer blocking the masks from going to Canada. Now Trump announces he is trying to send 200 ventilators to the UK because they badly need them. Who would have thought I would be the only one on the same page as Trump.
Me! You guys drink out of different sides of the same pitcher. :PEasy to say that after the fact. :)
Easy to say that after the fact. :)
I agree with you about a lot of people on here drinking the Kool-Aid. But when you spew things like this, you're drinking the same drink, just different flavor.
I got the Kool-Aid part down earlier... partial credit?Sure but I have a copyright on Kool-Aid. You need your own catch phrase.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Rivlin-celebrated-Passover-with-daughter-against-coronavirus-laws-report-624269
Do as I say, not as I do
If he fires him it will be a MAJOR blunder.He would lose many centrists votes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-lashes-out-at-fauci-amid-criticism-of-slow-virus-response/ar-BB12wPbh?ocid=spartanntp
So... President Mark Cuban, huh...Is he going to be the VP pick? I can see Biden giving up the spot because of health reasons.
Is he going to be the VP pick? I can see Biden giving up the spot because of health reasons.He doesn't qualify unless he identifies as a female.
Is he going to be the VP pick? I can see Biden giving up the spot because of health reasons.
If this goes on for months and months, will the election be on time? How will it work?possibly mail in ballots
If this goes on for months and months, will the election be on time? How will it work?I don't believe the constitution provides any mechanism for the the President to remain in power beyond January.
Looks like an independent run. He'd obliterate both of of them in a 3 person race, IMO. Liberal enough to compete with Biden without the senility issues, anti-establishment enough to beat Trump at that game, and the religious nuts are still going to church/shul, so time will tell if they get a vote.Trump has 33-35% Kool-Aid drinkers. About the same for the left fringe. Can he even get on the ballot now besides write in?
Trump has 33-35% Kool-Aid drinkers. About the same for the left fringe. Can he even get on the ballot now besides write in?
This is why you needed a national stay-at-home order. Some idiots still just don't get it.Your wrong on so many levels. Although fits right into the anti trump agenda ;). Here in California there is a national stay at home order. Stores are busy like regular, streets are full, parks are full, everything is running regular. Only thing different is some people not going to work. Stay at home order is nice, but clearly doesn't have a profound impact on people.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/ar-BB12zTcc?ocid=spartanntp
Your wrong on so many levels. Although fits right into the anti trump agenda ;). Here in California there is a national stay at home order. Stores are busy like regular, streets are full, parks are full, everything is running regular. Only thing different is some people not going to work. Stay at home order is nice, but clearly doesn't have a profound impact on people.Stay-at-home is a mindset and helps on many levels. CA would have been worse if people didn't stay at home. You can't fix stupid.
You can't fix stupid.
CA's state mottoThis coming from a state that allowed Spring break. What is FL's state moto? Stupid tries to fix stupid? :P
Stay-at-home is a mindset and helps on many levels.One would think so. I'm telling, that on a practical level it does not seem to be helping. And 100%, can't fix stupid
One would think so. I'm telling, that on a practical level it does not seem to be helping. And 100%, can't fix stupidI have many relatives in CA. They are staying at home.
This coming from a state that allowed Spring break. What is FL's state moto? Stupid tries to fix stupid? :P
I have many relatives in CA. They are staying at home.NYC is far more congested, so makes sense we didn't get it as bad. As far as the curve, no idea. Makes no sense, because in the city people really aren't taking it seriously.
How did CA flatten the curve, by accident?
I have many relatives in CA. They are staying at home.Maybe. How would we know one way or the other?
How did CA flatten the curve, by accident?
This is why you needed a national stay-at-home order. Some idiots still just don't get it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/south-dakotas-governor-resisted-ordering-people-to-stay-home-now-it-has-one-of-the-nations-largest-coronavirus-hot-spots/ar-BB12zTcc?ocid=spartanntp
I'd just like to point out that it's very likely a stay-home order wouldn't have prevented anything in this case. It's a pork plant, which would be considered essential. All 300 employees would likely still have been exposed.That is why I added: That may come later because they are following the same blunders the WH has made.
Invalid Tweet IDMoronic, anyone with half a brain would tell you the deaths come after the hospitalizations which come after the spread/positives. This pattern has repeated itself EVERYWHERE, why can’t people understand that?
Moronic, anyone with half a brain would tell you the deaths come after the hospitalizations which come after the spread/positives. This pattern has repeated itself EVERYWHERE, why can’t people understand that?Agreed that it is a stupid move by the governor, but to call it one of the nation's biggest hotspots based on such numbers is ridiculous and can only be to further the political agenda. When it happens say it then. Lying only makes credibility get lost.
Let me guess. If/when deaths start piling up they’re going to say “Now everyone’s infected already so it’s safe to be open”.
Sheesh.
@CountValentine what is your proposal?I am not president. I don't have resources, numbers and expert advice that he does.
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?
Let's hear it.
Agreed that it is a stupid move by the governor, but to call it one of the nation's biggest hotspots based on such numbers is ridiculous and can only be to further the political agenda. When it happens say it then. Lying only makes credibility get lost.
There are enough bad decisions being made and enough blame to go around without trying to turn every incident into Trump's Benghazi.This isn't about Trumps Watergate. It is about these Governors who think it isn't going to hit them. How is your governors blunders working out? Didn't this moron just announce that the WWE is an essential business? That is like saying wh*rehouses are an essential business. >:( >:( >:(
@CountValentine what is your proposal?
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?
Let's hear it.
This isn't about Trumps Watergate. It is about these Governors who think it isn't going to hit them. How is your governors blunders working out? Didn't this moron just announce that the WWE is an essential business? That is like saying wh*rehouses are an essential business. >:( >:( >:(And liquor stores
This isn't about Trumps Watergate. It is about these Governors who think it isn't going to hit them. How is your governors blunders working out? Didn't this moron just announce that the WWE is an essential business? That is like saying wh*rehouses are an essential business. >:( >:( >:(
This is what you get when you have politicians making medical decisions.So now it has come down to the R's are putting businesses ahead of lives?
So now it has come down to the R's are putting businesses ahead of lives?
...so you do whatever it takes to get elected.That pretty cynical. You believe that for all power positions?
That pretty cynical. You believe that for all power positions?
Be careful with your answer. ;)
That pretty cynical. You believe that for all power positions?
Be careful with your answer. ;)
I believe it to be the rule rather than the exception. I also believe it becomes more prevalent in accordance with the power of the office.
I believe it to be the rule rather than the exception. I also believe it becomes more prevalent in accordance with the power of the office.So lets take a religious position of power like the Pope. I guess you think it is more likely to be the rule than the exception?
So lets take a religious position of power like the Pope. I guess you think it is more likely to be the rule than the exception?
You get three guesses what my next question will be and the first two guesses don't count. :)
I don't know enough about the current power of the position to comment on that. I can say that historically, the position has not been impervious to corruption. And if you're going to lean towards positions in the Jewish communities, I'll say that those which are subject to election or re-election, have absolutely been corrupted in the past.Man is not impervious to corruption. That is why anything that man touches becomes corrupt. If you are looking for something that is not corrupt then there is only one place to look and it is not on this earth. With that being said that does not mean that someone will say anything to get what they want.
Man is not impervious to corruption. That is why anything that man touches becomes corrupt. If you are looking for something that is not corrupt then there is only one place to look and it is not on this earth. With that being said that does not mean that someone will say anything to get what they want.
Everyone likes to talk like politicians are a different human race. They are no different than any other human being. Just like in religion you have those that feel they are more pious we have the same thing when it comes to politicians.
This is conversation for another day, but I'll give the 10 cent response.Steve Levitt and Steven Dubner make the very convincing argument that paying politicians very well and/or giving them cash incentives for implementing good long-term policy would raise the quality of our pool of politicians and therefore our policies at a relatively inexpensive price.
To start, there's a big difference between those who seek power and those who are revered enough to be anointed (so to speak).
Additionally, I agree that politicians are as human as the rest of us. Many individuals would do no better than corrupt politicians, if they were put in the same position and given the same access to opportunity. There are also many people who would be better in those positions of power, but never make it there. Some shun the opportunity to begin with, in order to avoid playing in the mud. There are also many who lose out during the process, because they won't play as dirty as their competition. Ultimately, I do not believe that the best representatives of humanity are found in public office, though there are some exceptions.
Steve Levitt and Steven Dubner make the very convincing argument that paying politicians very well and/or giving them cash incentives for implementing good long-term policy would raise the quality of our pool of politicians and therefore our policies at a relatively inexpensive price.
It’s a good story in theory. But who controls the money and the metrics? And how do you ensure you’re incentivizing them more than whatever lobby (or worse...) they’re currently motivated by?The theory basically goes if you pay them millions they will not need to resort to the classic bribery that goes on, of course people prefer to work honestly and transparently at the job they’re supposed to. Politicians just historically make their money/frills from lobbyists because they’re poorly compensated in general.
Politicians just historically make their money/frills from lobbyists because they’re poorly compensated in general.Source?
The theory basically goes if you pay them millions they will not need to resort to the classic bribery that goes on, of course people prefer to work honestly and transparently at the job they’re supposed to. Politicians just historically make their money/frills from lobbyists because they’re poorly compensated in general.
Also, their proposal is that as long term policy is judged the politicians who enacted the well-done legislation can get bonuses.
A few holes in this logic:Alright, here’s (https://freakonomics.com/2012/06/21/would-paying-politicians-more-attract-better-politicians/) the article, now tell me what you think
1. It cost gazillions of dollars to get into office, honest people oftentimes can’t afford to get on the ballot.
2. You still haven’t explained how they quantify success. In a 4 year term a representative official (senator/congressman) will have voted on hundreds/thousands of items, and their voting record is only a small voice in determining the outcome of each of those votes. Multiply that by hundreds of elected officials with different/overlapping time periods served, and it’s hard to quantify this stuff on scale to decide who merits a bonus.
3. If the bonuses come at the end of said long term, the politicians will have long retired/been voted out. It’s hard to tempt someone with a vague promise down the road, where there’s an opportunity in the here and now to partner with specific interests, vote a certain way, introduce certain bills, and your campaign is well funded for the next election.
Source?As I said, it’s a theory. Theories can’t have sources, else they wouldn’t be theories, but facts.
Alright, here’s (https://freakonomics.com/2012/06/21/would-paying-politicians-more-attract-better-politicians/) the article, now tell me what you think
As I said, it’s a theory. Theories can’t have sources, else they wouldn’t be theories, but facts.Oh it is your theories., got it.
Of course they will make it a political issue.We can argue about this, but the reopening plan makes a lot of sense. And the bailout obviously was not enough but a lot was done in a very short time. I think long term obviously we will see blunders because we are humans, but overall people will approve of trump's approach.
To do it right it needs to be on a national level with the government running it. We seen the disaster with PPE's and should learn from our mistakes. States getting into bidding wars with each other and the federal government. It would have been best for the government to buy everything and then distribute it.
This is just another blunder for the administration. They know they have failed so far with testing and now what to put it on the states.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-partisan-battle-lines-emerge-over-testing/ar-BB12S3VK?li=BBnb7Kz
Of course they will make it a political issue.It’s clear that the approaches taken by different cities/states were what mattered. Look at California vs. NY.
To do it right it needs to be on a national level with the government running it. We seen the disaster with PPE's and should learn from our mistakes. States getting into bidding wars with each other and the federal government. It would have been best for the government to buy everything and then distribute it.
This is just another blunder for the administration. They know they have failed so far with testing and now what to put it on the states.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-partisan-battle-lines-emerge-over-testing/ar-BB12S3VK?li=BBnb7Kz
We can argue about this, but the reopening plan makes a lot of sense. And the bailout obviously was not enough but a lot was done in a very short time. I think long term obviously we will see blunders because we are humans, but overall people will approve of trump's approach.
Its clear that the approaches taken by different cities/states were what mattered. Look at California vs. NY.The point is testing is the key to reopening. We need to that on a mass level. Saying we did 3 million test on a nation of 300mm+ is massive failure. This needs to be a national effort run by the government. Putting it off on the states is the blunder.
At the end of the day states have more power than the federal government in implementing distancing laws etc. so its unfair to blame Trump for the failures of some states
The point is testing is the key to reopening. We need to that on a mass level. Saying we did 3 million test on a nation of 300mm+ is massive failure. This needs to be a national effort run by the government. Putting it off on the states is the blunder.so you agree with Trump on something ;)
As far as Trumps response and his approval of it we will find out.
so you agree with Trump on something ;)More than you think but the haters here will say I don't.
Watching Cuomo’s big press conference.. has he lost his mind? Rambling about spaghetti and meatballs and his daughter’s boyfriend and his grandfather..Taking a page from the president?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/19/bill_maher_vs_dan_crenshaw_is_the_goal_to_make_trump_look_bad_or_is_the_goal_to_get_to_the_truth.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/19/bill_maher_vs_dan_crenshaw_is_the_goal_to_make_trump_look_bad_or_is_the_goal_to_get_to_the_truth.html)
"What do we feel about him? Don't you want to comment about his latest tweet and the way he lashed out? No, I don't," Crenshaw said. "I can't defend everything. He doesn't have the same style as I do. I don't consider him to be my spiritual guide by any means."This sounds very much like many conversations on this forum where someone harps on some dumb comments made by Trump while actions while others point out that actions were really taken while the Dems were actively thwarting the actual actions.
What I think is a common sentiment of forum membersHe's a bumbling idiot who says more stupid things then Elon Musk, but at the end of the day he usually does more good then bad, and does more doing than previous presidents (IMHO).
This sounds very much like many conversations on this forum where someone harps on some dumb comments made by Trump while actions while others point out that actions were really taken while the Dems were actively thwarting the actual actions.
He's a bumbling idiot who says more stupid things then Elon Musk, but at the end of the day he usually does more good then bad, and does more doing than previous presidents (IMHO).Some have a hard time understanding this
He is not a presidential figure and it's a little embarrassing for this country, and there could have been a much better president then him. But the truth is a more mainstream right wing person probably would not have won, and his personality probably got more right wing voters out to vote.
At the end of the day it's policy that gets my vote, not the person. I dislike his attitude and repertoire, I dislike his overbearing self confidence, I dislike him. But I like most of his policies, and that's what a president is in office for.
...and the blunders just keep on coming.he signed the darn bill last we checked its made in congress and its their responsibility to make sure that doesnt happen
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/these-us-citizens-wont-get-coronavirus-stimulus-checks-—-because-their-spouses-are-immigrants/ar-BB12WWwR?li=BBnb7Kz
he signed the darn bill last we checked its made in congress and its their responsibility to make sure that doesnt happenYou make it sound like this was an accident.
You make it sound like this was an accident.
This bill was passed by both parties, the blame is on both.That is not how bills work. Both sides have their priorities and try to get as much as they can for their side. Like the double dip on the UI. Some R's thought that was a mistake and wanted it fixed. The D's new exactly what they were doing when they put it in. Just as I will give 10-1 this was what the R's wanted. Lets be real here!
You make it sound like this was an accident.So why do you think the House put it into HR748?
New blunder around he corner.Revised and clarified? This was an EO, no?
Trump seems super excited about his new immigration ban, that he had to tweet about it without providing details.
Like every other ban Trump announces, he will announce one thing and than it will be revised and clarified. It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).
That is not how bills work. Both sides have their priorities and try to get as much as they can for their side. Like the double dip on the UI. Some R's thought that was a mistake and wanted it fixed. The D's new exactly what they were doing when they put it in. Just as I will give 10-1 this was what the R's wanted. Lets be real here!
Revised and clarified? This was an EO, no?
New blunder around he corner.no blunder here. he clarified it in a way that should make Americans proud! a few month ban so when businesses restart the jobs will go to citizens.
Trump seems super excited about his new immigration ban, that he had to tweet about it without providing details.
Like every other ban Trump announces, he will announce one thing and than it will be revised and clarified. It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).
no blunder here. he clarified it in a way that should make Americans proud! a few month ban so when businesses restart the jobs will go to citizens.So no exemptions for the slaves, sorry I mean cotton pickers?
So no exemptions for the slaves, sorry I mean cotton pickers?There's 350 million for them. And they won't have to pay it back either, you will. (Ftr I have no idea what you were aiming at so I took it for what I wanted it to say).
no blunder here. he clarified it in a way that should make Americans proud! a few month ban so when businesses restart the jobs will go to citizens.
There's 350 million for them. And they won't have to pay it back either, you will. (Ftr I have no idea what you were aiming at so I took it for what I wanted it to say).You can always ask if you don't understand or it isn't clear.
There are definitely merits to doing so, he just acted like a little child that can’t hold in excitement and had to send off a random late night tweet. Why couldn’t he just notify us at a press conference with all the details.
So no exemptions for the slaves, sorry I mean cotton pickers?Just as I predicted. >:(
Can not having everyone wear masks be the biggest blinder?At the time the WHO and CDC were not recommending them, and we trusted the WHO. Why was it a blunder?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-hong-kong-flattened-the-curve-without-total-lockdown/ar-BB133x5v?ocid=spartanntp
At the time the WHO and CDC were not recommending them, and we trusted the WHO. Why was it a blunder?CDC is a federal agency. I guess you agree with Trump when he said he takes no responsibility?
And here goes....
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/22/hhs-ousts-vaccine-expert-as-covid-19-threat-grows-201642
CDC is a federal agency. I guess you agree with Trump when he said he takes no responsibility?
Was he supposed to listen to the experts or know better than them?Read the title of the thread. This was a major blunder by the administration. What part of that don't you understand?
I want to clarify something. When you say “this administration”, do you mean relative to other countries? Other leaders? How you would have done it? Even if in hindsight something doesn’t work out, that does not by definition equal a blunder. So I’m curious what you’re referring to.
We've clarified this already. The title says what it means. It's regardless of anyone else's track record or theoretical ability to do it better. It's purely a scorecard on things that should have, or even could have, been done differently by the US government led by Donald J. Trump.I will be hiring a speech writer in the near future. You would be one of the top ones I will be considering if you are interested.
I will be hiring a speech writer in the near future. You would be one of the top ones I will be considering if you are interested.
It will also provide ammunition for his opponents to begin attacking him for being racist (although it isnt).He gave them a machinegun with this one.
Yes the media is twisting his words but it is still a blunder to say stupid stuff like this. Words have consequences.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-backlash-wh-claims-trump-disinfectant-ingestion-idea-taken-out-of-context/ar-BB139qXx?li=BBnb7Kz
Hey! Royalties, please!Take it up with CM. :P
Take it up with CM. :P
So looks like the administration in NY (Yes the "Great" Mr. Cuomo) might have some serious answering to do when this is over. (Assuming they even get asked the questions)
Point one:
Invalid Tweet ID?s=12
First of all, as the spokesperson, I feel obligated to tell you that youre going to be signed, cuz this topic is specifically regarding the President's Administration's blunders.Start with this:
But what's Bongino referring to?
Start with this:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/new-york-nursing-home-denied-requests-to-send-covid-19-patients-to-usns-comfort/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_content=20200425&tpcc=morning_report&mpweb=755-8806994-720560312
I can confirm this info first hand from a few friends in the business, it wasn't just this one home.
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.This too:
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.I've heard first hand, Nursing homes pleaded to send (relatively small number of) Covid patients to Javitz or the ship so as not to infect the rest of the home, and were flatly denied thereby resulting in many deaths.
I've heard first hand, Nursing homes pleaded to send (relatively small number of) Covid patients to Javitz or the ship so as not to infect the rest of the home, and were flatly denied thereby resulting in many deaths.I’m pretty sure Cuomo said openly in his Thursday press conference that he does not have responsibilities to nursing homes, he has responsibilities to hospitals.
I’m pretty sure Cuomo said openly in his Thursday press conference that he does not have responsibilities to nursing homes, he has responsibilities to hospitals.Okay then if he said he is not responsible then all is well
Okay then if he said he is not responsible then all is wellI was just saying you don’t need to dig around to find dirt on him, he has said it outright
What does any of this have to do with wanting to test injecting people with disinfectant?Hey, don't knock it till you try it.
Hey, don't knock it till you try it.I hope you didn't give that advice to JJ disciples. >:(
Start with this:
https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/new-york-nursing-home-denied-requests-to-send-covid-19-patients-to-usns-comfort/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_content=20200425&tpcc=morning_report&mpweb=755-8806994-720560312
I can confirm this info first hand from a few friends in the business, it wasn't just this one home.
If you believe this Cuomo is responsible for murder. The administration forced virus free nursing homes to take covid patients from hospitals against their will, subsequently infecting and killing dozens of nursing home residents. The State was nice enough to send a bundle of body bags to the nursing home along with the covid patients. If this is accurate heads should roll.The Italian mafia boss??? Duh
https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-patients-admitted-to-queens-nursing-home-with-body-bags/
If you believe this Cuomo is responsible for murder. The administration forced virus free nursing homes to take covid patients from hospitals against their will, subsequently infecting and killing dozens of nursing home residents. The State was nice enough to send a bundle of body bags to the nursing home along with the covid patients. If this is accurate heads should roll.Speak to people in the industry in NY, reports seem quite accurate.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-patients-admitted-to-queens-nursing-home-with-body-bags/
From Republicans and going to be run on FOX. Look at Dr Birx expression.The poor Dr.
The poor Dr.I look at her and think "Yes she understands our pain".
Dr. Deborah Birx to Yahoo's Hunter Walker: I just want to make it clear South Korea's testing was 11 per 100k, and we're at 17 per 100k.
— August Takala (@AugustTakala) April 28, 2020
TRUMP: Are you going to apologize, Yahoo? That's why you're Yahoo, and nobody knows who the hell you are.
Dr. Birx: Just check it again. pic.twitter.com/BWk0m9rPJ6
What an idiotWho?
Who?The better question is who not, but I think you can figure out which one she is.
The better question is who not, but I think you can figure out which one she is.I am not sure but the US was way behind. They have now caught up and past SK. Sort of dishonest for Dr Birx to bring up per capita when she would never before when talking about this. Also SK has relaxed their testing. Now the other side will bring up Italy as they are way in front.
Once Upon a Virus... pic.twitter.com/FY0svfEKc6
— Ambassade de Chine en France (@AmbassadeChine) April 30, 2020
The fact that many peer countries are struggling with COVID-19 roughly as much as the US suggests there's some naivety to claims such as "the US could greatly improve the situation with [my proposed solution]… IF ONLY WE HAD BETTER LEADERSHIP!!!".
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) May 1, 2020
And all of these countries are struggling with the "reopening conversation" just as much as we are. This might suggest that authors of these plans are not thinking enough about what the actual political (and logistical, etc.) constraints are.
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) May 1, 2020
Did they all have the mindset that 15 would be 0 and not take this seriously? If so then their inaction also cost lives.
I’m pretty sure Cuomo said openly in his Thursday press conference that he does not have responsibilities to nursing homes, he has responsibilities to hospitals.He also said he doesn't have a responsibility to people who are out of a job, like he said a while ago at a press conference that they should get an "essential" job
That's pretty bad. Wonder if/when this stuff will hit national news.Probably won't because hes a democrat
Did they all have the mindset that 15 would be 0 and not take this seriously? If so then their inaction also cost lives.Or that not all stupidity always ends such results.
Or that not all stupidity always ends such results.OK Sweden. :)
OK Sweden. :)That is down by their having worse results that others. If our results are in line with others then we are not the same as Sweden.
That is down by their having worse results that others. If our results are in line with others then we are not the same as Sweden.Come on, man!
Come on, man!What matters is deaths per million compared to others with supposedly better leadership.
Bottom line: He touts blocking flights from China then does nothing for a month except downplaying the virus.
Looks like we will have 100k+ deaths. You can't spin that.
What matters is deaths per million compared to others with supposedly better leadership.If 1k dies it would be a non-issue. 100k and someone gets blamed.
If 1k dies it would be a non-issue. 100k and someone gets blamed.They doesn't mean it is justified
If 1k dies it would be a non-issue. 100k and someone gets blamed.
The Chinese.Why are you inciting racist violence? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji35.png)
Why are you inciting racist violence? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji35.png)
We're assigning blame, not being PC or spreading blame around. CV picks Trump. I pick China.I think he was joking
I think I have a stronger case.
I think he was joking
We're assigning blame, not being PC or spreading blame around. CV picks Trump. I pick China.I glad you finally understand it is China and not "Chinese".
I think I have a stronger case.
Why are you inciting racist violence? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji35.png)
Stop listening to CNN and actually think logically
I think he was joking
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/34-days-of-pandemic-inside-trumps-desperate-attempts-to-reopen-america/2020/05/02/e99911f4-8b54-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.htmlEh.
Putting a Kool-Aid drinker as press secretary.How can they do something so terrible. People might get the impression that her job is to dispense the Kool-aid or something like that
The hits just keep on coming. Could this have been managed any worse?No
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/ar-BB13Qqsv
The hits just keep on coming. Could this have been managed any worse?This would have been 'very difficult and very expensive'...better to focus on bigger and better options.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/ar-BB13Qqsv
This would have been 'very difficult and very expensive'...better to focus on bigger and better options.One of the first things that happen was we ran out of PPE.
The list is getting to long.and we are probably just scratching the surface
Is this blunder finally over?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hydroxychloroquine-nih-halts-clinical-trial-after-finding-no-additional-benefit-for-covid-19-patients/ar-BB15Ld4K?ocid=spartanntp
Unfortunately no. Zelenko is still on his speaking tour, and the legitimacy given to him by Trump is still very much relied upon.
Recent videos please?
Don't have a video. May be bad info, but a shliach told me the Shluchim Office sent his manifesto to 6000 Shluchim as their official/unofficial guidance.
Recent videos please?
An unfortunate oversight on their part. I bet they don’t have a medical advisory board.
Dunno, I'd bet they have access to enough high level medical professionals to make most countries jealous.
You’re putting way too much faith in them then, my guess is someone made the wrong decision. It’s okay, they’re human.
An unfortunate oversight on their part. I bet they don’t have a medical advisory board.Because on the medical experts on ddf say it doesn't work? When people say what they see with their own eyes them their dumb and don't listen to DRs and when drs say something you don't like... then they are also dumb. I don't how effective or ineffective the drug is, but I do know first hand that it saved people's lives. Frum people that live in local communities.
Because on the medical experts on ddf say it doesn't work? When people say what they see with their own eyes them their dumb and don't listen to DRs and when drs say something you don't like... then they are also dumb. I don't how effective or ineffective the drug is, but I do know first hand that it saved people's lives. Frum people that live in local communities.
Are you just choosing to ignore the news that doctors have stopped giving it to patients because of the risks, or did you just not see it?Latest round was they don't see any benefits. Didn't see any coherently written articles about any risks.
Latest round was they don't see any benefits. Didn't see any coherently written articles about any risks.
On Monday, the US FDA revoked its emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine after a large Chinese study found no benefit
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So 0.3% of his patients died, which is consistent with the 0.5-1% mortality rate recorded in a plethora of seroprevalence studies...
I like the 84% reduction in hospitalizations stat. What's he comparing it to? And considering he's the PCP and he's telling them not to go to the hospital until the last second, it says nothing about the actual medical condition of his patients.I suspect 16% of his patients are ending up in the hospitals
I suspect 16% of his patients are ending up in the hospitals
Not quite. The patients he's referring to are those with symptoms.
So 0.3% of his patients died, which is consistent with the 0.5-1% mortality rate recorded in a plethora of seroprevalence studies...
Not quite. The patients he's referring to are those with symptoms.
He was also treating people as presumed positives with no tests, so all his numbers are bunk. Considering how many people thought they had it then, and have found out in the last month or so that they never had it... Nissei nissim that none of his patients had heart issues that reacted badly to the hydroxychloriquin.Thats right. His protocol was rooted in early treatment, so couldnt afford waiting around when testing was scarce. Sure, put his numbers aside, but bottom line is that his community did not get hit like similar Jewish communities. Not sure why people love to hate on him.
There have been no studies refuting his data.That's true AFAIK, however his whole treatment is based on Raoult in Nice who used it in hospitalized patients, so there is no evidence to suggest that it works either.
1) Took 200mg hydroxychloroquine tablets twice a day with meals.
2) Took Zinc tablets (usually 220mg)
and
3) Began this regimen within 4 – 5 days of onset of symptoms.
Every test or study or trial that failed, all were non-compliant with either # 2 or # 3. Or both.
If someone has has a study that disproves it, Id love to see it.
Not sure why people love to hate on him.Because he's a complete quack. Once he broadcasted to the world that 90% of KJ has Covid based on extrapolation from test results his saw, he lost all credibility eternally.
Not quite. The patients he's referring to are those with symptoms.Says who? For all we know he's counting asymptomatic carriers that took it after exposure. His whole theory is that if you take the med it may prevent symptoms in the first place...
Sure, put his numbers aside, but bottom line is that his community did not get hit like similar Jewish communities.What makes you think so? I highly doubt that's true on an age adjusted basis.
METHODS
We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial across the United States and parts of Canada testing hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis. We enrolled adults who had household or occupational exposure to someone with confirmed Covid-19 at a distance of less than 6 ft for more than 10 minutes while wearing neither a face mask nor an eye shield (high-risk exposure) or while wearing a face mask but no eye shield (moderate-risk exposure). Within 4 days after exposure, we randomly assigned participants to receive either placebo or hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 additional days). The primary outcome was the incidence of either laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 or illness compatible with Covid-19 within 14 days.
RESULTS
We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.
CONCLUSIONS
After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure. (Funded by David Baszucki and Jan Ellison Baszucki and others; ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04308668. opens in new tab.)
Last I heard, he lost one patient. All the other stuff is irrelevant. If it's indeed the case, that he lost only one patient from a pool of patients that were either high risk or presented difficulty breathing, how can you not listen to what he has to say? So yeah, he extrapolated incorrectly. Who cares? If his protocol is indeed saving lives, that's all that matters. Unless you say he's lying regarding the number of deaths. But that should be relatively easy to prove.
What makes you think so? I highly doubt that's true on an age adjusted basis.
Be sure to pair it with zinc. Worthless on its own as has been proven in studies.
I would probably take HCQ if I got it
Now this moron wants to slow down testing. What is he trying to do. Get 200k deaths? >:( >:( >:(Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/i-dont-kid-trump-says-he-wasnt-joking-about-slowing-coronavirus-testing/ar-BB15SmFt?li=BBnb7Kz
Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.So then Trump is even more of a moron for making a fool out of himself and doubling down on that, but that's not for this thread.
FTFY (http://)So thenTrump iseven more ofa moronformaking a fool out of himselfand doubling down on that, but that's not for this thread.
If the US wants fewer unwanted pregnancies they should stop pregnancy testing. Using the White House logic, without pregnancy testing there would be no unwanted babies.
Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.He never said he asked anyone. He said he wants testing slowed and he said he wasn't joking.
He never said he asked anyone. He said he wants testing slowed and he said he wasn't joking.Did you not hear the original line?
You really need to wake up.
Did you not hear the original line?Who did he ask?
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
He never said he asked anyone. He said he wants testing slowed and he said he wasn't joking.
You really need to wake up.
Did you not hear the original line?
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
Who did he ask?
He said he was not joking. What part of that don't you understand? I know you like to defend this idiot but you look foolish on this one.
::)You understand English? I said ne never asked anyone. HE DIDN"T by your own post.
Carry on.:)
Fauci literally testified today in front of Congress that nobody was ever asked to slow down testing. It was a joke.
You understand English? I said ne never asked anyone. HE DIDN"T by your own post.No. That’s a lie. You said he never said he asked someone. But he did say that he asked someone. Now are you going to give up or keep digging?
The point is he said point blank when asked that he was not joking. You continual try and twist this and just look foolish.
The testimony, or Trump's comment about slowing down testing?Trump’s comment. I assume Fauci took his testimony seriously.
No. That’s a lie. You said he never said he asked someone. But he did say that he asked someone. Now are you going to give up or keep digging?Talk about head buried in the sand. Telling someone to do something is not asking them. I am bad at grammar but that one is a no brainer. ::)
He claimed that he said to his people to slow down testing. But he never said it. Hence it was a joke. Get it?
Talk about head buried in the sand. Telling someone to do something is not asking them. I am bad at grammar but that one is a no brainer. ::)
If I tell you to take out the garbage, that is not asking.
When POTUS asks you to do something, is it really a question? For additional context, in this instance, POTUS is also your boss.The point is he never asked anyone.
The point is he never asked anyone.
I'm confused about what your position is here. Are you saying:Where is all the above option?
A) Trump told/asked his people to reduce testing, so he's a fool,
B) Trump didn't tell/ask his people to reduce testing, but just said he did and doubled down on it, so he's a fool
C) Trump did tell/ask people to reduce testing, but not Fauci because they haven't talked in a month, so he's a fool for telling/asking and for not talking to Fauci
C) Trump is a fool for suggesting that reducing testing would solve the country's virus issue
D) Trump is a fool
Where is all the above option?
Or how about these options?
A) Fool
B) Fool
C) Fool
D) Fool
The point is he never asked anyone.Right. But he said he did. So he was joking.
Right. But he said he did. So he was joking.Where did he ask anyone?
I got the fool part, I'm just trying to understand where you and @S209 differ on what happened.He is saying Trump never asked Dr F. How could he when he never asked anyone.
He is saying Trump never asked Dr F. How could he when he never asked anyone.
So he never asked Dr. Fauci or anyone else, so when he said he asked his people to slow down testing, he was joking, even though he insists he wasn't. And he's a fool.He didn't ASK anyone. Here it is from @S209
We all on the same page now?
Did you not hear the original line?I have no idea who his people are that he said it to but there was no question asked. He also said he was not joking.
ETA: Here are his exact words: “So I said to my people, slow the testing down please“
So he never asked [or told] Dr. Fauci or anyone else [about slowing down testing], so when he said he asked his people to slow down testing, he was joking, even though he insists he wasn't. And he's a fool [who contradicts himself and lies publicly].
We all on the same page now?
He didn't ASK anyone. Here it is from @S209 I have no idea who his people are that he said it to but there was no question asked. He also said he was not joking.Requesting an underling to carry out your orders can be referred to as both “asking” or “telling” them what to do. There is NO difference. You’re being ridiculous and I hope you realize it.
Now @S209 wants to muddy the waters with Dr F who has nothing to do with it.
He didn't ASK anyone. Here it is from @S209 I have no idea who his people are that he said it to but there was no question asked. He also said he was not joking.When you ask someone to do something there is no question involved. You are *requesting* something. This is elementary school Language Arts class.
Now @S209 wants to muddy the waters with Dr F who has nothing to do with it.
Requesting an underling to carry out your orders can be referred to as both “asking” or “telling” them what to do. There is NO difference. You’re being ridiculous and I hope you realize it.Wow the pretzel you are trying to make. Ask and tell are totally different. Now if you want to look foolish twisting yourself in a pretzel go right ahead.
Dr. Fauci is the official in charge of implementing the COVID response, so I’m pretty sure anything being requested of “his people” re: testing would have to go through Fauci, who testified that *neither he nor anyone he knows of* was ever told to slow down testing.
Nobody is muddying waters but yourself.
Wow the pretzel you are trying to make. Ask and tell are totally different. Now if you want to look foolish twisting yourself in a pretzel go right ahead.Just to be clear. Are you saying that the following sentences are “totally different”?
Dr F probably has not talked to Trump in the last month. You invoked him without even knowing if he talked to Trump.
The fact is Trump in his own words said he was not joking. You try and bring in someone else secondhand when we have firsthand information. Then you claim I am being ridiculous. ::)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
ETA: @CountValentine let’s see if you can answer a simple questionOf course they are completely different. Telling someone to do something is not asking them to do something. English 101.
Of course they are completely different. Telling someone to do something is not asking them to do something. English 101.If to you they are totally different sentences then we’re at an impasse until a third party linguist decides the matter. @Yehuda57 ? Do we have any linguists on board?
Do you tell your wife to do things or do you ask her. :P
This is besides the main point. You are confusing the issue by bringing in secondhand info when we have it firsthand.
If to you they are totally different sentences then we’re at an impasse until a third party linguist decides the matter.If you need someone to say ask/tell are not the same then impasse is not the problem.
When POTUS asks you to do something, is it really a question? For additional context, in this instance, POTUS is also your boss.
It was a joke? ::)Umm. It was always set to expire now. Texas in particular said they do not want the federal states but are working on a better testing process. I’m unaware of the other states’ opinions but are you insinuating that FEMA is dismantling the sites as a method of lowering testing numbers? Keep drinking the Kool Aid :P
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-administration-ending-support-for-drive-thru-testing-sites/ar-BB15VtdC?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
If you need someone to say ask/tell are not the same then impasse is not the problem.You’re digging your grave deeper. I was being kind by equating our sides and offering judgement to a third party.
You’re digging your grave deeper. I was being kind by equating our sides and offering judgement to a third party.Would you like to bet they mean the same? Money goes to charity.
Spoiler alert: It’s you with the comprehension issue.
Would you like to bet they mean the same? Money goes to charity.The words can mean different things in context. The two sentences I offered meant the same thing. Sure I’ll gladly give $10 to the coronavirus charity campaign of your choice from the other thread if someone we agree to judge neutrally says that those sentences don’t mean the same thing.
I am now going to be blunt. You have lost your mind if you think those two words mean the same thing!!! :P
The words can mean different things in context. The two sentences I offered meant the same thing. Sure I’ll gladly give $10 to the coronavirus charity campaign of your choice from the other thread if someone we agree to judge neutrally says that those sentences don’t mean the same thing.Here is the exact question:
Here are options that work for me: @Dan @Lurker @Yehuda57 @AsherO @AJK @jj1000 @YitzyS @Euclid @yuneeq @yelped @PlatinumGuy @Ergel (names that come off the top of my head)
Pick any one or more to be judge.
The words can mean different things in context.Here we go with the pretzels. There are two words, ask and told. They don't mean the same thing.
Here is the exact question:You would have to know what is in the persons mind. That can't be done but nice try with the pretzel. :P
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Here we go with the pretzels. There are two words, ask and told. They don't mean the same thing.That wasn’t the question, the question was if the sentences mean the same thing. You’re the one twisting into pretzels. The question and answer before was very clear and simple.
Do you want to bet on that or not?
You would have to know what is in the persons mind. That can't be done but nice try with the pretzel. :POh so now they mean different things depending on what the person meant? The question is what the sentences mean. In English.
You would have to know what is in the persons mind. That can't be done but nice try with the pretzel. :PSo to be clear, are you retracting what you said before that they are “totally different”?
So to be clear, are you retracting what you said before that they are “totally different”?You lost your mind. The only difference is the two words. They are totally different. Now we can play your games on what "totally" means.
Oh so now they mean different things depending on what the person meant? The question is what the sentences mean. In English.In English the words have two different meanings. I don't care what the person saying them thinks they mean or the person hearing them thinks they mean. All I care about is if in English they mean the same, they don't!!! Now you want to bet or not?
You lost your mind. The only difference is the two words. They are totally different. Now we can play your games on what "totally" means.Words are funny things. They change meaning based on context. Like how change can mean to transform, transformation, or small coins. Fortunately the context in this case was very clear, as we were discussing a very specific sentence.
Ask your wife if they are different. When she says they are then tell her they are not. :P
In English the words have two different meanings. I don't care what the person saying them thinks they mean or the person hearing them thinks they mean. All I care about is if in English they mean the same, they don't!!! Now you want to bet or not?In English words take on different meanings based on context. What is so hard to understand about that? When they are both being used to replace the word “request”, they mean the same thing.
In English the words have two different meanings. I don't care what the person saying them thinks they mean or the person hearing them thinks they mean. All I care about is if in English they mean the same, they don't!!! Now you want to bet or not?Does change mean to transform or does it mean small coins?
How’s your pretzel going?Telling or asking have different meanings in the same context.
Does change mean to transform or does it mean small coins?I asked him to donate his change.
Telling or asking have different meanings in the same context.Yes. In your example they mean the same thing (assuming “I” is “him”s boss and is asking “him” to take out the garbage in the course of his work for “I”). Let’s bet. Which judge of those I nominated do you choose?
I asked him to take out the garbage.
I told him to take out the garbage.
They mean two different things. You want to bet or not.
Man, the last time I saw this much back and forth over the meaning of words in English was that little "Chinese virus" thing... 8)He should shut up or put up! :)
But I kinda want a soft pretzel now.
Here is the exact question:
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Yes. In your example they mean the same thing (assuming “I” is “him”s boss and is asking “him” to take out the garbage in the course of his work for “I”). Let’s bet. Which judge of those I nominated do you choose?I am sorry but you are acting like a child. There is no assumption. They are simple English sentences which you can't comprehend.
I am sorry but you are acting like a child. There is no assumption. They are simple English sentences which you can't comprehend.Umm. I literally took you up on your bet. I asked you a question. You answered. I am telling you you’re wrong and am ready to bet on it. The terms are clear. PUOSU.
Ask someone with knowledge of English if ask/told mean the same thing.
Then come back or put up or shut up!!! :)
You are trying to take @Lurker position since you dug yourself such a big hole.
You know you've spent too much time on DDF when you have a rule and a position named after you...That happens a lot around here since some members can't think for themselves. I would be a millionaire if I have a nickel for every time one of my phrases were used since they can't think on their own.
That happens a lot around here since some members can't think for themselves. I would be a millionaire if I have a nickel for every time one of my phrases were used since they can't think of their own.Is that your way of saying your backing down from the bet? Got it.
That happens a lot around here since some members can't think for themselves. I would be a millionaire if I have a nickel for every time one of my phrases were used since they can't think of their own.
Is that your way of saying your backing down from the bet? Got it.Keep up your childish posts and I guarantee you won't like my responses.
If I had a nickel for every one of the phrases you've appropriated and claimed as your own, I'd have more nickels than you.If I use them first here then I lay claim to them.
Just the facts, Jack.
Keep up your childish posts and I guarantee you won't like my responses.Why are you not picking a judge? Scared? It’s going to charity don’t worry.
Keep up your childish posts and I guarantee you won't like my responses.I must say I expected better from you. I thought you don’t back down from a challenge.
If I use them first here then I lay claim to them.
You owe me a nickel.
Why are you not picking a judge? Scared? It’s going to charity don’t worry.Because you picked all Jews. When it comes to money I don't trust Jews. I seen how Jews try and come up with religious reasons to back out of what they owe. They try and come up with religious reasons to back out when they commit to selling things like mint coins.
Yes. In your example they mean the same thing (assuming “I” is “him”s boss and is asking “him” to take out the garbage in the course of his work for “I”).Absolutely! If I say to my daughter, "could you please clean up your toys?" It is technically a question so I can say "I asked her to clean up" but in actuality, it is a nice way of telling her what she has to do, so I can also say, "I told her to clean up" and it would be true.
Because you picked all Jews. When it comes to money I don't trust Jews. I seen how Jews try and come up with religious reasons to back out of what they owe. They try and come up with religious reasons to back out when they commit to selling things like mint coins.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Absolutely! If I say to my daughter, "could you please clean up your toys?" It is technically a question so I can say "I asked her to clean up" but in actuality, it is a nice way of telling her what she has to do, so I can also say, "I told her to clean up" and it would be true.So when you ask your spouse to do something it is a nice way to tell them to do it?
Wow. Not very woke, man.Just the facts, Jack!
So when you ask your spouse to do something it is a nice way to tell them to do it?If you ask your spouse *if* she can do something then no. If you ask her *to* do something then yes.
Just the facts, Jack!
Because you picked all Jews. When it comes to money I don't trust Jews. I seen how Jews try and come up with religious reasons to back out of what they owe. They try and come up with religious reasons to back out when they commit to selling things like mint coins.Is that what you meant by “I won’t like your responses”? Because that doesn’t bother me at all.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
So when you ask your spouse to do something it is a nice way to tell them to do it?I was talking about my two-year-old daughter. why are you bringing in my spouse?!
Dunno 'bout that. He gave you some options for judges, and you essentially just called them all dishonest because you dealt with some dishonest Jews before. I used to work in a scrap yard. Want me to tell you about the junkie Catholics?Sure lets here about them. Did they adhere to strict religious laws?
Just the facts, Jack!You owe @Lurker a nickel
Sure lets here about them. Did they adhere to strict religious laws?
I was talking about my two-year-old daughter. why are you bringing in my spouse?!I have no idea how a child would take what you said. I know how an adult (spouse) would take it.
Came in on Ash Wednesday looking the part, too.That means nothing.
That means nothing.
I have no idea how a child would take what you said. I know how an adult (spouse) would take it.But if I told my spouse what happened and she happened to have overheard she would NOT say, "No, you didn't tell her, you asked her" because when the one you are talking to is required to listen, asking is just a nicer way of telling.
On the actual question - my opinion wasn't asked-1
Here are options that work for me: @YitzyS
On the actual question - my opinion wasn't asked, and I honestly didn't think deeply enough into it to offer a response.Not exactly the same but close enough :)
BUT... I find this argument extremely ironic. The last time I heard this argument, it was the Democrats who said that ask=tell, while it was the Republicans who said that ask≠tell.
See this short clip. Maybe it will jog your memory...
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4888976/user-clip-asktell
-1Meant to say that I was never appointed by both sides...
Not exactly the same but close enough :)Agreed. He's talking about his military training. But the irony of it is tremendous. And the Republicans grilled him for that line...
Meant to say that I was never appointed by both sides...Laying low and keeping your nose clean back in the JS Politics thread?
Believe me, I stayed far enough from this thread that I would never dream of opening my mouth here without someone tagging me first...
Hopefully even a firstgrader can understand the difference. ;)When a superior asks their underling to do something, they are essentially telling them politely to do it.
Ask - you give them a choice
Tell- you take away the choice
Hopefully even a firstgrader can understand the difference. ;)So after claiming you want to bet and me happily agreeing to do so you’re still trying to beg your case? Why not man up and accept the challenge?
Ask - you give them a choice
Tell- you take away the choice
When a superior asks their underling to do something, they are essentially telling them politely to do it.Wrong, I have been asked many times by my boss to do something and politely said no.
Wrong, I have been asked many times by my boss to do something and politely said no.There they are not asking you do something. They are asking you *if* you are willing to do something.
It is a sign of respect to ask in those situations.
Perfect example: Can you work overtime this Friday? No I already have plans.
That is why the words don't have the same meaning in the same context. English 101. :)
There they are not asking you do something. They are asking you *if* you are willing to do something.So you were not even there and you are going to tell me what he meant. ::)
Wrong, I have been asked many times by my boss to do something and politely said no.Again, this is not something you are REQUIRED to do in your capacity of "underling." but if it was during regular work hours and your boss "asks" you to start working on a project, is that really asking or telling?
It is a sign of respect to ask in those situations.
Perfect example: Can you work overtime this Friday? No I already have plans.
That is why the words don't have the same meaning in the same context. English 101. :)
So you were not even there and you are going to tell me what he meant. ::)According to this (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ask) “demand” is a hyponym of “ask”
Again, this is not something you are REQUIRED to do in your capacity of "underling." but if it was during regular work hours and your boss "asks" you to start working on a project, is that really asking or telling?It is asking if he asks. I am not a sheep and I speak up. Don't ask (choice) me to do something when you really meant to tell (no choice) me to do it. I can't believe this is even a question.
It was very obvious what he meant in that context. Assuming I need to be there to understand the words does your case no favors. As I have repeatedly said I invite you to ask any third party their opinion. I even offered to put money on it. Until then keep drinking your Kool Aid.Ok big mouth. I will ask my sister who has been an English teacher and principal for 40+ years. She also has been a Catholic nun for 50+ years. PUOST!!!
Ok big mouth. I will ask my sister who has been an English teacher and principal for 40+ years. She also has been a Catholic nun for 50+ years. PUOST!!!Forgive me if I suspect your sister of bias. Just wouldn’t be fair to you ;)
Forgive me if I suspect your sister of bias. Just wouldn’t be fair to you ;)That's ok I will take the chance. You betting or chickening out.
That's ok I will take the chance. You betting or chickening out.Umm how about we find someone somewhere in between your sister (your choice) and any random forum member (my choice). Not to mention your sister doesn’t have an account here so I’d be taking your word for it altogether, and trusting you to phrase the question as I wrote it out.
Umm how about we find someone somewhere in between your sister (your choice) and any random forum member (my choice). Not to mention your sister doesn’t have an account here so I’d be taking your word for it altogether, and trusting you to phrase the question as I wrote it out.I think you can get an honest answer here on the forums by working out the exact wording of the question together, and then posting it in a new thread, with no mention who said what and what the entire back and forth was. Maybe even put a poll, though members who saw this thread should refrain from voting.
Umm how about we find someone somewhere in between your sister (your choice) and any random forum member (my choice). Not to mention your sister doesn’t have an account here so I’d be taking your word for it altogether, and trusting you to phrase the question as I wrote it out.We are not phrasing anything. It is simple as if ask/tell have the same meaning in the same sentence. We are not getting into the mindset of the person asking/telling or the mindset of the person on the receiving end. We have no way no know their thinking and just gives you a way to not pay.
I think you can get an honest answer here on the forums by working out the exact wording of the question together,I have been told over and over Jews treat other Jews the same as family. I suggest a qualified person and he has an issue that she is family member when every person he suggested is also a family member in his eyes.
I have been told over and over Jews treat other Jews the same as family. I suggest a qualified person and he has an issue that she is family member when every person he suggested is also a family member in his eyes.My suggestion was a blind test. Nobody will know who said which opinion.
My suggestion was a blind test. Nobody will know who said which opinion.Of course I am not going to tell her what my opinion is.
Which would work with your sister, if you present it without saying which opinion is yours.
DDFers treat other DDFers the same as family.FTFY
FTFYI don't ban my family. :)
Talk about being totally dishonest. >:(What was dishonest?
We are not phrasing anything. It is simple as if ask/tell have the same meaning in the same sentence. We are not getting into the mindset of the person asking/telling or the mindset of the person on the receiving end. We have no way no know their thinking and just gives you a way to not pay.That’s your new version of the facts, but that’s not what the question was. The question was a very specific one about a very specific statement made by a very specific person.
That’s your new version of the facts, but that’s not what the question was. The question was a very specific one about a very specific statement made by a very specific person.You made up the question after you twisted yourself in a pretzel. The way you worded the poll shows how dishonest you are.
You made up the question after you twisted yourself in a pretzel. The way you worded the poll shows how dishonest you are.Really. Please do quote me where I said that was the question. I won’t hold my breath.
To answer the poll you have to know what was in Trumps mind, good luck. This is a simple question if ask/tell mean the same thing. I see you conceded you were wrong on them being the same meaning and moved on to the pretzel. ::)
Requesting an underling to carry out your orders can be referred to as both “asking” or “telling” them what to do. There is NO difference. You’re being ridiculous and I hope you realize it.
Dr. Fauci is the official in charge of implementing the COVID response, so I’m pretty sure anything being requested of “his people” re: testing would have to go through Fauci, who testified that *neither he nor anyone he knows of* was ever told to slow down testing.
Nobody is muddying waters but yourself.
Just to be clear. Are you saying that the following sentences are “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Nobody is twisting anything, I honestly didn’t realize that your issue was with not being able to understand the language. I thought it was more fundamental to the argument. This is just amateur.
ETA: @CountValentine let’s see if you can answer a simple question
Hope there are no DDFers here with Celiac, as the gluten from all those pretzels must be overwhelming them.Gluten free pretzels are a thing
Really. Please do quote me where I said that was the question. I won’t hold my breath.What part don't you understand of you made up the question after you twisted yourself into a pretzel? Here is your made up question.
Here is the exact question:From the beginning I said ask/tell do not mean the same thing. If they did mean the same thing then no matter what example we use should not matter. You were dishonest by slanting the poll. You already conceded they don't mean the same by having to slant the poll.
In the context of Trump telling people who work for him to slow down the testing, do the following sentences mean the same thing or are they “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
You’re doing great :)You are the one who tried to make it about context after you had no response when I said they were different. Like I said you slanted the poll because you knew you were wrong.
What part don't you understand of you made up the question after you twisted yourself into a pretzel? Here is your made up question.From the beginning I said ask/tell do not mean the same thing. If they did mean the same thing then no matter what example we use should not matter. You were dishonest by slanting the poll. You already conceded they don't mean the same by having to slant the poll.No, I never once maintained that the two mean the exact same thing in all circumstances. It should be fairly easy for you to show me where I’ve said that. You can’t, because I never did. Only a moron would think ask and tell are the same thing always.
It case you missed it:
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
You are the one who tried to make it about context after you had no response when I said they were different. Like I said you slanted the poll because you knew you were wrong.Please tell me how I slanted the poll? Which part would you have preferred not be part of it? I’ll remind you one more time, you answered this
It case you missed it:
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
Just to be clear. Are you saying that the following sentences are “totally different”?
I told them to slow down the testing.
I asked them to slow down the testing.
Of course they are completely different. Telling someone to do something is not asking them to do something.
Which part would you leave preferred not be part of it?
It case you missed it:I ask this several times.
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Do you understand the difference?
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?I want my $10 to my charity, Salvation Army. :)
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?Honestly I’m just trying to show how the good Count’s intellectual dishonesty works against him as often as it does for him should anyone have the stamina to finish the argument. He is sometimes right and others are disingenuous when they debate him as well but he is just as guilty.
I ask this several times.And? Did I disagree that ask and tell *can* have different definitions? If I did, please point to a post of mine that says so. If you don’t, we can just include this in “arguments of yours that weren’t fully thought through”
And? Did I disagree that ask and tell *can* have different definitions? If I did, please point to a post of mine that says so. If you don’t, we can just include this in “arguments of yours that weren’t fully thought through”That wasn't the question. Do you understand one has a choice and the other does not? Not can but does!
That wasn't the question. Do you understand one has a choice and the other does not? Not can but does!In certain contexts, correct. Not in the context we were discussing. What’s your point? This is what we refer to as a straw man- you are presenting an argument that nobody disagrees with.
I have you on the record as saying no to an actual question I asked. I think you’re wrong. Can you say the same about me?I gave a straight answer to your question. You keep being dishonest hedging your answer.
I gave a straight answer to your question. You keep being dishonest hedging your answer.So why does everyone seem confident in their answer? “Debatable” is an option in the poll.
Start a poll
Ask - you have a choice
Tell - you are given no choice
Two choice, agree or disagree. You will get blown out of the water and you know it.
The way you worded the poll you have to know what was in the persons mind when they made the statement. You have no way to know.
So why does everyone seem confident in their answer? “Debatable” is an option in the poll.If someone uses words and assigns wrong meanings to them that does not change the real meaning of the words. Anytime you ask someone to do something you are giving them a choice. You can twist yourself in any shape pretzel you want but that does not change the factual meaning of the word.
Don’t forget that is the EXACT same question I posed to you. You’re changing. The question you’re posing now was never a matter of disagreement.
If someone uses words and assigns wrong meanings to them that does not change the real meaning of the words. Anytime you ask someone to do something you are giving them a choice. You can twist yourself in any shape pretzel you want but that does not change the factual meaning of the word.So why does everybody agree with me if you’re so sure your right?
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?+1
Guys, don't you think 5 pages of this back and forth is just a little too much? Who cares? You both agree Trump is a fool and move on. Who cares if he asked or told someone?You need to use @Something Fishy trick to get more posts per page ;)
So why does everybody agree with me if you’re so sure your right?They agree with your slanted dishonest poll.
They agree with your slanted dishonest poll.Does this make sense in your head?
You avoid the point I made about using words wrong or trying to tell what is in the persons mind when using them.
You already conceded they one is a choice and the other isn't so by your own admission they can't mean the same.
Teacher do I have a choice or not. They are both the same thing. ROFLMAO!
They agree with your slanted dishonest poll.
You avoid the point I made about using words wrong or trying to tell what is in the persons mind when using them.
You already conceded they one is a choice and the other isn't so by your own admission they can't mean the same.
Teacher do I have a choice or not. They are both the same thing. ROFLMAO!
Please tell me how I slanted the poll? Which part would you have preferred not be part of it?
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)So basically, you can’t? Got it
So basically, you can’t? Got itGo back and read.
I'm shocked that the dumbest thread in this board does not have to do with a COVID denierWhat are you talking about. Covid-19 is a witch-hunt created by the liberal left. :)
What are you talking about. Covid-19 is a witch-hunt created by the liberal left. :)That was the impeachment hoax
The words can mean different things in context. The two sentences I offered meant the same thing. Sure I’ll gladly give $10 to the coronavirus charity campaign of your choice from the other thread if someone we agree to judge neutrally says that those sentences don’t mean the same thing.
So I haven't been on DDF lately unless I have been pinged, and lo and behold, I got pinged! After a few seconds trying to get the context, my decision to stop hanging out here was vindicated.@Yehuda57, please don't judge all threads by the action of few. I know that institutional stereotyping exists, but it's wrong. There are many upstanding threads on these forums, places where you would gain both insight and knowledge from visiting them and hanging out on them. Don't look at the most pretzel-filled thread and judge the rest of them by it.
Peace out
So I haven't been on DDF lately unless I have been pinged, and lo and behold, I got pinged! After a few seconds trying to get the context, my decision to stop hanging out here was vindicated.I would take your pinger off the hook. ;)
Peace out
When they do speak they are in fantasy land.We're #1! 'Murica!
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/pence-says-us-made-remarkable-progress-on-coronavirus/1891492
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"Thousands? While your at it make it millions.. @joebiden. If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.
Thousands? While your at it make it millions.. @joebiden. If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.Are you saying the whole scientific community is wrong on wearing masks? ::)
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"There is a lot of things you can argue if what he did was wrong or to late but this isn't one of them!
If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.Do you honestly believe the stupidity you peddle?
Thousands? While your at it make it millions.. @joebiden. If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"No politician or spokesperson wears them while speaking. Not an effective form of communication.
No politician or spokesperson wears them while speaking. Not an effective form of communication.Funny as I see news reporters wearing them all the time while reporting.
Funny as I see news reporters wearing them all the time while reporting.Emphasis added.
You want to support this moron that is your choice but please stop spewing this BS!!!
Emphasis added.That has nothing to do with the point you can communicate effectively wearing a mask. Using that as an excuse is pure BS.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/cnn-reporter-caught-removing-face-mask-when-she-thought-camera-was-off/
That has nothing to do with the point you can communicate effectively wearing a mask. Using that as an excuse is pure BS.Have you tried talking on the phone to someone who is wearing a mask?
Have you tried talking on the phone to someone who is wearing a mask?Monday I was in the vets parking lot dropping my dog off. Have my mask on when they called. I could talk just fine and they understood me just fine.
Monday I was in the vets parking lot dropping my dog off. Have my mask on when they called. I could talk just fine and they understood me just fine.Maybe your mask was better than the one the person I was talking to wore. Could barely hear anything.
Next question? :)
It's frightening to think that thousands more people died because of one man's vanity that wearing masks "don't look good"+1
+1Imagine looking towards Trump's actions to delineate "bakovodig".
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving Shiur or davening (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, lemasa it’s not bakovodig.”
Imagine looking towards Trump's actions to delineate "bakovodig".Correct, but they are inferring from his actions in this case that he doesn’t believe it’s “presidential”, and then extrapolate to themselves.
(Most frum Trump supporters (that I'm aware of) support him despite his most definitely non-bakovodig antics.)
Who's wearing masks in Israel? They're tracing cases back to weddings and other mass gatherings.Was at an American wedding last night in Yerushalayim (for a short time). I'd say about 85% mask adherence on the women's side. 35% on the men's side. Very little social distancing. Around 150 people
+1So he respects his own appearance more than the health of those in his vicinity?
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving Shiur or davening (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, lemasa it’s not bakovodig.”
+1FTF @CountValentine and others who may not be familiar with the language
I heard from more than one well respected person about why they wouldn’t wear a mask while giving a lecture or praying (slightly older and higher risk, generally quite cautious, and have not had the virus previously) “Trump doesn’t wear a mask, bottom line is it’s not respectable.”
Have you tried talking on the phone to someone who is wearing a mask?Great idea for a science fair project!
Was at an American wedding last night in Yerushalayim (for a short time). I'd say about 85% mask adherence on the women's side. 35% on the men's side. Very little social distancing. Around 150 peopleI'm surprised the police didnt show up. At a wedding recently I was at, police showed up almost every hour
If masks work so well why are people in israel getting corona.... hint they're not that effective.Actually, I think @yaakov35 is correct.
Actually, I think @yaakov35 is correct.Do you believe you can get the virus from surfaces?
Social distancing is much more effective for decreasing corona transmission than wearing masks.
Similarly, driving within the speed limit is much more effective for decreasing highway fatalities than avoiding texting while driving.
Avoiding texting and wearing masks are not the most effective way to save lives, but they help.
Do you believe you can get the virus from surfaces?How do those relate to what I wrote?
I guess you are not talking about N95 masks?
How do those relate to what I wrote?Properly wearing masks will help from spreading the virus to another surface. SD will not. You can be 100 feet away and cough and contaminate a surface. Someone can then touch that surface.
Masks add a little extra protection.Proper masks worn properly add great protection.
Much greater protection can be had by remaining distant from other people.
Maximal protection requires adding masks to social distancing, but if one could do only one of these, just keeping away from other people would be a better choice than just wearing a mask.Will have to disagree as SD is not possible in many situations. Wearing masks I would guess is possible in 90+ % of the situations.
Agree?
Properly wearing masks will help from spreading the virus to another surface. SD will not. You can be 100 feet away and cough and contaminate a surface. Someone can then touch that surface.Proper masks worn properly add great protection. Will have to disagree as SD is not possible in many situations. Wearing masks I would guess is possible in 90+ % of the situations.+1
ETA: This isn't an either or situation. You wear your seatbelt and drive safely. You can argue which would save more lives but not one over the other.
+1Surgical mask are effective and a no brainer to wear.
Though I agree with @biobook that strong SD is more important than mask wearing if you had to choose one (especially considering most aren’t wearing N95s and don’t know how to properly wear them, and especially outdoors)
ETA: This isn't an either or situation. You wear your seatbelt and drive safely. You can argue which would save more lives but not one over the other.I was presenting it as an either or situation. I was responding to a poster who claimed that masks are "not that effective" and the only way I could imagine him seeing that somewhere was in an either/or discussion. So I started with that, but tried (not very effectively?) to segue into the more comprehensive answer you gave.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/how-white-house-coronavirus-response-went-wrong/613591/Wow. Quite an indictment
Wow. Quite an indictmentI wouldn’t expect otherwise from a guy who was Jimmy Carter’s speechwriter and is a major NPR guy. Long time Trump basher and Biden Worshiper.
I wouldn’t expect otherwise from a guy who was Jimmy Carter’s speechwriter and is a major NPR guy. Long time Trump basher and Biden Worshiper....but is what he wrote accurate?
...but is what he wrote accurate?His conclusions do not appear accurate.
?s=20Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the @WHO in the midst of a pandemic.
— Senator Bob Menendez (@SenatorMenendez) July 7, 2020
To call Trump’s response to COVID chaotic & incoherent doesn't do it justice. This won't protect American lives or interests—it leaves Americans sick & America alone.
Finally good newsPut us more at risk is good news, OK. ::)
Put us more at risk is good news, OK. ::)The last thing we need during a pandemic is the WHO giving misinformation and covering up for China all at the US taxpayers expense.
15 to 0 didn't work so what is the plan? Hot weather will knock it out didn't work so what is the plan? It will just disappear didn't work so what is the plan? There is no plan and you just have to live with it. 130k deaths and counting!!!
The last thing we need during a pandemic is the WHO giving misinformation and covering up for China all at the US taxpayers expense.You only look at things one way. Pulling out is the worse thing you can do.
You only look at things one way. Pulling out is the worse thing you can do.Why?
Why?He makes these snap decisions because he wants to blame someone for all his failures. The WHO has done a ton of good. Yes they have screwed up but you work to fix it.
Let's look at it another way. What do you gain by pulling out. Saving a few dollars - what impact is that going to have?You gain nothing. More money was wasted buying a drug that never worked and only Trump was promoting.
You gain nothing. More money was wasted buying a drug that never worked and only Trump was promoting.Only Trump? 🙄
Only Trump? 🙄Sorry, Trump and my signature.
Let's look at it another way. What do you gain by pulling out. Saving a few dollars - what impact is that going to have?Not supporting Chinas coverup. We should never be supporting corrupt organizations, financial cost being the least of the issues.
Not supporting Chinas coverup. We should never be supporting corrupt organizations, financial cost being the least of the issues.Maybe talk to the president who said the leader of China is his friend and being totally transparent.
Nothing but a smoke screen. US didn't withdraw from anything.?s=20Congress received notification that POTUS officially withdrew the U.S. from the @WHO in the midst of a pandemic.
— Senator Bob Menendez (@SenatorMenendez) July 7, 2020
To call Trump’s response to COVID chaotic & incoherent doesn't do it justice. This won't protect American lives or interests—it leaves Americans sick & America alone.
Nothing but a smoke screen. US didn't withdraw from anything.Honestly I don't understand this tweet. Its effective July 202. Who's calling that the midst of a pandemic?
Honestly I don't understand this tweet. Its effective July 202. Who's calling that the midst of a pandemic?Trump is spinning it that he is withdrawing like right now. The left is feeding off that spin. It doesn't matter who is president next year as we are withdrawing!
This doesn't really belong here, because it's not a blunder, but this relationship is dangerous:Yep, its absurd that they're even considering not opening schools.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/trump-cdc-school-guidelines-funding/index.html
Yep, its absurd that they're even considering not opening schools.
Yep, cuz that's what the CDC does: they control the opening of schools.When you have a list of demands as long as they do.... thats essentially controlling the opening
When you have a list of demands as long as they do.... thats essentially controlling the opening
Maybe talk to the president who said the leader of China is his friend and being totally transparent.I'm not discussing Trump, but the worst you're accusing him of is believing China, WHO helped the Chinese coverup. You can't even compare them.
Wasn't Trump just as negligent?
I'm not discussing Trump, but the worst you're accusing him of is believing China, WHO helped the Chinese coverup. You can't even compare them.I agree you can't compare them. Him believing China cost thousands of American lives.
Yep, its absurd that they're even considering not opening schools.Because you know better? If Trump said keep schools close you would screaming why are they opening schools. ::)
Because you know better? If Trump said keep schools close you would know it's really badFTFY
Moronic, anyone with half a brain would tell you the deaths come after the hospitalizations which come after the spread/positives. This pattern has repeated itself EVERYWHERE, why can’t people understand that?
Let me guess. If/when deaths start piling up they’re going to say “Now everyone’s infected already so it’s safe to be open”.
Sheesh.
Our wartime president has now lost 150k+ lives.Weren’t they predicting a few million deaths?
Good thing he is impresses with some nut job doctor!!! >:( >:( >:(
Our wartime president has now lost 150k+ lives.Update: 170k+ dead! >:( >:( >:(
Good thing he is impresses with some nut job doctor!!! >:( >:( >:(
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?For what?
In @CountValentine's place, may I present to you the next "blunder" courtesy of Orange Man Bad:Called it:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
He is doing this during the time period that Dr. Fauci can't speak. And Dr. Birx isn't at the conference either so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In @CountValentine's place, may I present to you the next "blunder" courtesy of Orange Man Bad:https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-did-not-get-orders-from-president-to-change-coronavirus-testing-guidelines-hhs-says
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
In @CountValentine's place, may I present to you the next "blunder" courtesy of Orange Man Bad:Usually "a federal health official close to the process" is as accurate as me hearing something from my uncles friend who's on a WhatsApp group with a cousin to the janitor at an iHop where the waiter has a night job together with the fellow who sells newspapers 3 blocks from the White House.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/politics/cdc-coronavirus-testing-guidance/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-did-not-get-orders-from-president-to-change-coronavirus-testing-guidelines-hhs-says
Usually "a federal health official close to the process" is as accurate as me hearing something from my uncles friend who's on a WhatsApp group with a cousin to the janitor at an iHop where the waiter has a night job together with the fellow who sells newspapers 3 blocks from the White House.
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/south-dakota/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/south-dakota/That looks like a very well flattened curve.
I think that we should respect @CountValentine and preserve this thread, unused, until his return.What if someone else, say @ChaimMoskowitz , decides to pick up where he left off?
That looks like a very well flattened curve.The curve is not yet visible
Would hiding in the basement while thousands of fellow Americans are dying a blunder?
He's down 3 touchdowns with a minute to go. The game hasn't been called, but he lost. He doesn't handle losing well, so he went to the locker room already to sulk. Time to move on.I guess we need a "How will this scumbag draft dodging coward LOSER President be remembered" tread then. :)
?s=21CDC officials reveal 'political operatives' were placed inside the agency, to monitor and adjust all reports to reflect Trump's assertions, that here is no epidemic. CBS.
— Michael Grossman (@MichaelArt123) November 22, 2020
?s=21CDC officials reveal 'political operatives' were placed inside the agency, to monitor and adjust all reports to reflect Trump's assertions, that here is no epidemic. CBS.
— Michael Grossman (@MichaelArt123) November 22, 2020
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?
That looks like a very well flattened curve.
The curve is not yet visible
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QGyFFwG/south-dakota.png) (https://postimages.org/)Looks similar to North Dakota. Did they have similar policies?
Looks similar to North Dakota. Did they have similar policies?I don’t know, but one thing is for sure- Kristi Noem didnt “avert” anything, they just got hit later.
I don’t know, but one thing is for sure- Kristi Noem didnt “avert” anything, they just got hit later.With no control group the data means little.
With no control group the data means little.I was just responding to this
Gonna apologize to Kristi Noem?
?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
It's mind-boggling to think that 1 out of every 1000 American's has died, and by the time it's done it will hit at least 1.5Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
Chances of being a victim of violent crime in those countries is probably also a lot lower. I wonder if people in those countries behave differently?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.Just to understand what you’re saying, when you say a governor “killed” people you mean exposed additional vulnerable people to COVID?
Just to understand what you’re saying, when you say a governor “killed” people you mean exposed additional vulnerable people to COVID?Which directly let to a massive increase in deaths.
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.Curious what the death rate comparison is if you take out nursing homes. I would bet the disparity is similar
Which directly let to a massive increase in deaths.Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.
Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.Spread among 30 y/os is directly and indirectly responsible for a miniscule amount of deaths compared to spread in nursing homes.
Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.
Perhaps. I’m pointing out that all he’s accusing the governor of is contributing to an increase in spread- exactly what others are showing the US as a whole did poorly vs. other countries.
The point people are making is if you take out the disastrous nursing home policies in NY, NJ, MI, etc., the USA numbers would look vastly different. This administration is not to blame for policies other states, such as FL and CA, figured out were deadly immediately.Right, but I still wonder if the numbers are still significantly higher, excluding the nursing home deaths, than other countries, which could be partially explained by the numbers of obese people in the US.
which could be partially explained by the numbers of obese people in the US.This plus other factors as well. But incompetent leadership on all levels doesn’t help.
This plus other factors as well. But incompetent leadership on all levels doesn’t help.
American selfishness
Source?Maybe cuz we’re only giving away $700 billion to other countries and not more
Maybe cuz we’re only giving away $700 billion to other countries and not more
Just to understand what you’re saying, when you say a governor “killed” people you mean exposed additional vulnerable people to COVID?Don't leave out the setting being high risk of spread too. Also the difference between actually exposing and not preventing risk of exposure are so far apart. The equivalence is almost like calling the original lockdown similar to China welding buildings shut.
10% of the total number of COVID deaths in the United States occurred in the last 12 days.
And 10% of the total confirmed case count occurred in the last 10 days.
That’s a scarier statistic, because deaths R”L lag...
Spread among 30 y/os is directly and indirectly responsible for a miniscule amount of deaths compared to spread in nursing homes.False, and exactly my point. All large scale spread in LTCFs started with large scale spread among other people. The spread among 30 year olds directly and indirectly led to *every* death in the US- including those in LTCFs. I’m not saying Cuomo wasn’t dead wrong (he certainly was), I’m saying the US failed in precisely this way on a broad scale. Bringing in Cuomo’s deadly decisions as a *defense* of the US death rate is inane.
It appears my post did not clearly represent what I was trying to say.False, and exactly my point. All large scale spread in LTCFs started with large scale spread among other people. The spread among 30 year olds directly and indirectly led to *every* death in the US- including those in LTCFs. I’m not saying Cuomo wasn’t dead wrong (he certainly was), I’m saying the US failed in precisely this way on a broad scale. Bringing in Cuomo’s deadly decisions as a *defense* of the US death rate is inane.This is utterly ridiculous. There were many nursing homes that did not have outbreaks, and were working day and night to keep it that way. Comes along Cuomo and literally forces them to bring the virus into their facility. Not only did that directly lead to many many deaths, but it also was directly responsible for a very big part of the hospital overload which lead to many many more deaths. None of this had anything to do with the 30 y/os.
Denmark, Taiwan, New Zealand, and the other countries quoted in the tweet didn’t need to decide about that *because* there wasn’t a lot of spread. Sweden is now being accused of poor nursing home policy as well *because* there was a lot of spread. You can’t get to step 2 (good or bad nursing home policy) without getting to step 1- having a lot of infected people spreading COVID.
This is utterly ridiculous. There were many nursing homes that did not have outbreaks, and were working day and night to keep it that way. Comes along Cuomo and literally forces them to bring the virus into their facility. Not only did that directly lead to many many deaths, but it also was directly responsible for a very big part of the hospital overload which lead to many many more deaths. None of this had anything to do with the 30 y/os.Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?
Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?Who cares which cow the anthrax virus in the powder originated from. It is 100% on the shoulders of the terrorist who sent it when someone dies from it. Here too it makes no difference where the patient zero in the LTCF caught it from. It is all on the shoulders of the terrorist who forced them into the home.
Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?This is irrelevant, the fact is there was some spread, and the governor made sure it continues to spread among the highest risk population.
It is 100% on the shoulders of the terrorist who sent it when someone dies from it.
Who cares which cow the anthrax virus in the powder originated from. It is 100% on the shoulders of the terrorist who sent it when someone dies from it. Here too it makes no difference where the patient zero in the LTCF caught it from. It is all on the shoulders of the terrorist who forced them into the home.Of course. What’s your point? Someone tried to defend the fact that living in the US in 2020 was much deadlier than living in, say, Singapore by pointing to Cuomo’s actions. But his policies are *not* the differentiator. The enormous spread in the US is. His actions followed those facts.
This is irrelevant, the fact is there was a ton of spread, and the governor made sure it continues to spread among the highest risk population.FTFY
Of course. What’s your point? Someone tried to defend the fact that living in the US in 2020 was much deadlier than living in, say, Singapore by pointing to Cuomo’s actions. But his policies are *not* the differentiator. The enormous spread in the US is. His actions followed those facts.Keep in mind that this policy was in March and April when it was after the fact from under the radar spread. We now know that it had been spreading silently for months by then but at the time did not.
Just like in NY, there were a lot of deaths in Florida, Texas, and other places, the majority occurring in LTCFs. Singapore, Taiwan etc. had no such issue. Was it the nursing home policies or something else that explains the enormous death discrepancies?
Keep in mind that this policy was in March and April when it was after the fact from under the radar spread. We now know that it had been spreading silently for months by then but at the time did not.Right, we were unsuccessful at keeping the virus at bay like other countries were. That’s the point. Cuomo is not responsible for the large discrepancy between the countries mentioned.
Right, we were unsuccessful at keeping the virus at bay like other countries were. That’s the point. Cuomo is not responsible for the large discrepancy between the countries mentioned.Is there any western country that was successful?
Related question: Is the percentage of deaths in nursing homes vs. other locations different in Florida and Texas than NY?
Is there any western country that was successful?Denmark, Norway, Finland, Australia, New Zealand etc.
Is there any western country that was successful?The US has 3x the death rate of Canada.
Anybody who thinks the difference is Cuomo is delusional.38k people died in NYS from Covid. At most Cuomo is responsible for 10% of US deaths. Even if you don't count them, the US has one of the highest death rates in the world.
Denmark, Norway, Finland, Australia, New Zealand etc.
The referenced tweet literally listed countries we were compared to. Anybody who thinks the difference is Cuomo is delusional.
In MARCH?I really have no idea where you’re going with this. What was wrong with what I said?
?s=21Perspective: If an American had moved to Denmark, Norway or Finland in January, her or his risk of dying from Covid would have been 5-10 times lower in 2020. South Korea, Liberia, or Hong Kong: 50-60 times lower. New Zealand: 200 times lower. Taiwan: 3,400 times lower.
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) December 28, 2020
I wonder if their governors killed as many people in nursing homes as ours did.
The US has 3x the death rate of Canada.See my clarification above. It had written a response to @S209 defending Coumo by saying that we were less successful than others AT THAT TIME. That is UTTER STUPIDITY AND REVISIONIST HISTORY.
38k people died in NYS from Covid. At most Cuomo is responsible for 10% of US deaths. Even if you don't count them, the US has one of the highest death rates in the world.
Coumo made a horrific mistake, but it was done at the height of extreme fear and unknown conditions (because the Federal government blocked testing), and quickly rectified. The same mistake was made by ~25 other governments. Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals. Trump is still promoting large congregations without masks, and Pence is skiing in Vail while shifting responsibility for vaccination to the states. Yes, the States are responsible, but the Federal gov't should be helping instead of vacationing.
I know most people here are irreparably convinced of Coumo-Bad-Trump-Good, but Coumo has done his best to help NY. Trump is playing golf and doing nothing.
I don't think the difference is Cuomo but also don't brush his terrorism aside like you do. That is equally delusional BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS.Where did I brush it aside? I agree the policy was terrible and have said so multiple times. But it’s irrelevant to this conversation. I do also think it was more misguided, less evil, though he has subsequently made decisions that might be more properly labeled as evil and made me rethink my opinion of him.
I really have no idea where you’re going with this. What was wrong with what I said?and I replied to this
I responded to this inane comment:
Where did those people with the virus “forced” into the facilities get infected? Wuhan? What was the (flawed) reasoning behind the policy?
and I replied to thisI wrote flawed in that comment. And I think in retrospect it was terrible. But it was irrelevant to the conversation at the time. My point was that it didn’t happen in a vacuum and was not the defining difference between the US and elsewhere and you’re nuts if you think it is.
See my clarification above. It had written a response to @S209 defending Coumo by saying that we were less successful than others AT THAT TIME. That is UTTER STUPIDITY AND REVISIONIST HISTORY.When did I defend his decision?! I strongly disagree with it and think it was a horrible decision. As I have stated before many times.
Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals.
And no reason at all to Dan him lkaf zechus!
but Coumo has done his best to help NY.
completely indefensible no matter which way you slice it.
Right, we were unsuccessful at keeping the virus at bay like other countries were. That’s the point. Cuomo is not responsible for the large discrepancy between the countries mentioned.It's hard to know because Cuomo fudged the numbers.
Related question: Is the percentage of deaths in nursing homes vs. other locations different in Florida and Texas than NY?
The US has 3x the death rate of Canada.Cuomo wasn't the only governor to issue such an order. NJ, PA, and IL among other states had the same murderous order. Additionally, filling up hospitals with nursing home patients let to a much lower standard of care for everyone else.
38k people died in NYS from Covid. At most Cuomo is responsible for 10% of US deaths. Even if you don't count them, the US has one of the highest death rates in the world.
Coumo made a horrific mistake, but it was done at the height of extreme fear and unknown conditions (because the Federal government blocked testing), and quickly rectified. The same mistake was made by ~25 other governments. Let's not forget Coumo didn't actually inhibit facilities from quarntining Covid suspected residents returned from hospitals. Trump is still promoting large congregations without masks, and Pence is skiing in Vail while shifting responsibility for vaccination to the states. Yes, the States are responsible, but the Federal gov't should be helping instead of vacationing.
I know most people here are irreparably convinced of Coumo-Bad-Trump-Good, but Coumo has done his best to help NY. Trump is playing golf and doing nothing.
Last Sept, Politico reported that Trump appointees at HHS interfered with CDC reports on Covid (h/t @azeen)
— Jason Leopold (@JasonLeopold) January 26, 2021
I got the emails via #FOIA (quoted by Politico) laying bare the political interference by Trump's appointees.
Just stunning. pic.twitter.com/JY16JWrDLQ
Last Sept, Politico reported that Trump appointees at HHS interfered with CDC reports on Covid (h/t @azeen)
— Jason Leopold (@JasonLeopold) January 26, 2021
I got the emails via #FOIA (quoted by Politico) laying bare the political interference by Trump's appointees.
Just stunning. pic.twitter.com/JY16JWrDLQ
Did you bother reading the email? I don't see anything wrong with it.Last Sept, Politico reported that Trump appointees at HHS interfered with CDC reports on Covid (h/t @azeen)
— Jason Leopold (@JasonLeopold) January 26, 2021
I got the emails via #FOIA (quoted by Politico) laying bare the political interference by Trump's appointees.
Just stunning. pic.twitter.com/JY16JWrDLQ
I don’t get how the pictures in the tweet show interference.He's accusing them of posting inaccurate summaries for political gain.
Here’s Fauci explaining that the evidence shows that open schools actually seem more likely to reduce covid spread than if the schools were closed.
— Zac Bissonnette (@ZacBissonnette) January 28, 2021
So the learning loss and child abuse and pediatric suicides actually made covid worse.
Oopsie daisy! pic.twitter.com/ROVM4nJXf0
Well, now that there is a new "this administration," lets see how they are doing.Looks like they took their tweets private. What did it say?
Listening to Fauci science? NOPE!Here’s Fauci explaining that the evidence shows that open schools actually seem more likely to reduce covid spread than if the schools were closed.
— Zac Bissonnette (@ZacBissonnette) January 28, 2021
So the learning loss and child abuse and pediatric suicides actually made covid worse.
Oopsie daisy! pic.twitter.com/ROVM4nJXf0