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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 / Wuhan Novel Coronavirus Discussion => Topic started by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 11:36:44 AM

Title: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 11:36:44 AM
I see there there is no dedicated thread for SBA small business PPP loans and EIDL loans. So I am opening this thread.

Can anybody confirm if they were able to fill out an application at Chase https://recovery.chase.com/cares1 I tried filling out and I received an error. Was it maybe because I already filled out a form to get a call on Friday?

I also applied for EIDL loan, and I now see that you will get by this week $1K per employee. Anybody else filled out an EIDL loan form?

I alos filled out the Cross River bank PPP app through Eastern Union on Friday. So far I have not received a follow up. Anybody else? Whoever responds first, will get my application in.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 07, 2020, 12:20:25 PM
There's a thread on the Stimulus package as a whole with many of these discussed there.
I know some that submitted applications to Chase on Friday (for PPP).
I applied for EIDL but entity has no employees so not feeling very optimistic.
Be careful about submitting multiple applications. You can try with multiple banks before they request a signature, but once you're at the signature stage your application gets an SBA #, and you're certifying on the application that you're not submitting more than one.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 12:30:19 PM
There's a thread on the Stimulus package as a whole with many of these discussed there.
I know some that submitted applications to Chase on Friday (for PPP).
I applied for EIDL but entity has no employees so not feeling very optimistic.
Be careful about submitting multiple applications. You can try with multiple banks before they request a signature, but once you're at the signature stage your application gets an SBA #, and you're certifying on the application that you're not submitting more than one.

I think the small business loans deserve their own thread.. You are YOUR companies employee, so I hope you put 1 at least, so you will be getting $1K by this week.

I understand that I can't make multiple loan apps, just trying to see who gets back to me first. Nothing is done until I sign.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ltttc on April 07, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
Just keep in mind that if you want PPP to be forgiven, you can't apply for EIDL as well
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 12:56:09 PM
Can anybody confirm if they were able to fill out an application at Chase https://recovery.chase.com/cares1 I tried filling out and I received an error. Was it maybe because I already filled out a form to get a call on Friday?

Chase site is having trouble. On my computer I was getting stuck in a loop, but i managed to submit the application from my phone (using the desktop site).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2020, 12:59:34 PM
1. Can I get an EIDL grant and apply for a PPP loan?
2. Where am I best off applying for PPP if I’m an independent contractor that’s unincorporated and I don’t have a business account (any account really) with an SBA lender?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 01:02:04 PM
Just keep in mind that if you want PPP to be forgiven, you can't apply for EIDL as well

Wrong info. Check before you post.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 01:02:16 PM
Just keep in mind that if you want PPP to be forgiven, you can't apply for EIDL as well

Are you sure? I thought that the amount of the PPP forgiveness is reduced by the Grant portion of the EIDL. So if you get $1k from EIDL and $20K from PPP only $19K of the PPP is forgiven.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 01:02:58 PM
1. Can I get an EIDL grant and apply for a PPP loan?
2. Where am I best off applying for PPP if I’m an independent contractor that’s unincorporated and I don’t have a business account (any account really) with an SBA lender?

Sole proprietors can get PPP loans, check out this guy on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCigUBIf-zt_DA6xyOQtq2WA
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2020, 01:03:27 PM
Are you sure? I thought that the amount of the PPP forgiveness is reduced by the Grant portion of the EIDL. So if you get $1k from EIDL and $20K from PPP only $19K of the PPP is forgiven.

Still doesn’t mean you can’t apply for both.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 01:03:30 PM
Are you sure? I thought that the amount of the PPP forgiveness is reduced by the Grant portion of the EIDL. So if you get $1k from EIDL and $20K from PPP only $19K of the PPP is forgiven.

You got it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 01:05:14 PM
PPP will basically allow you to refinance the EIDL loan, so YES, you can get emergency cash through EIDL which will be given out this week. I don't think the SBA loan will start coming in this week, so EIDL will be quicker cash. You will however only get $1K per employee, that's what the SBA clarified yesterday contrary to everybody's believe that you will get 10K.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on April 07, 2020, 01:06:50 PM
1. Can I get an EIDL grant and apply for a PPP loan?
IIRC yes but the will subtract the amount of the grant off of the amount that will be forgiven
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on April 07, 2020, 01:15:03 PM
Are you sure? I thought that the amount of the PPP forgiveness is reduced by the Grant portion of the EIDL. So if you get $1k from EIDL and $20K from PPP only $19K of the PPP is forgiven.
IIRC yes but the will subtract the amount of the grant off of the amount that will be forgiven
this is the sba website where they stat it clearly on page 15
https://www.sba.gov/document/policy-guidance--ppp-interim-final-rule
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 01:19:15 PM
Wrong info. Check before you post.
Thought so, but for most people there won't be much benefit to getting the EIDL if they also get the PPP.

A few possible benefits;
1 - Get money quicker (maybe)
2 - Less restrictions on what the EIDL can be spent on.
3 - Max loan amount for the EIDL is a lot higher so if you want a low interest loan (for the non-forgiven part).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 07, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Any way to update the EIDL application if I wrote 0 employees?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 07, 2020, 01:50:44 PM
Any way to check the status of the EIDL? I applied on 3/31 got a confirmation number and thats it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 01:55:58 PM
2. Where am I best off applying for PPP if I’m an independent contractor that’s unincorporated and I don’t have a business account (any account really) with an SBA lender?

Pretty sure 1099 workers have to wait until April 10th to apply for the PPP.

Do you have a chase business credit card? I don't know if that's the best, but that might allow you to apply through them
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 02:14:30 PM
Thought so, but for most people there won't be much benefit to getting the EIDL if they also get the PPP.

A few possible benefits;
1 - Get money quicker (maybe)
2 - Less restrictions on what the EIDL can be spent on.
3 - Max loan amount for the EIDL is a lot higher so if you want a low interest loan (for the non-forgiven part).

EIDL is quicker, you will get it this week. $1K per employee.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 02:15:28 PM
Any way to check the status of the EIDL? I applied on 3/31 got a confirmation number and thats it.

Nope. You will get $1K per employee this week as per SBA.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 07, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
You are YOUR companies employee, so I hope you put 1 at least, so you will be getting $1K by this week.

Not true by definition. I don't draw payroll from that entity (unearned income), so technically that entity has 0 employees (which is what I put on the application).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Not true by definition. I don't draw payroll from that entity (unearned income), so technically that entity has 0 employees (which is what I put on the application).

If it's a company that you don't work for then it's an INVESTMENT for you. Usually the IRS requires you take some W2 payroll from a company that you WORK for.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YSP on April 07, 2020, 02:48:51 PM
Wells fargo said they are no longer accepting applications

https://update.wf.com/coronavirus/paycheckprotectionprogram/

Any other way to submit the application if it's not through your bank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: herb on April 07, 2020, 02:49:54 PM
Wells fargo said they are no longer accepting applications

https://update.wf.com/coronavirus/paycheckprotectionprogram/

Any other way to submit the application if it's not through your bank?
tried cross river?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ltttc on April 07, 2020, 03:11:19 PM
Wrong info. Check before you post.
Again, this is as per my accountant and I confirm with Roth & co too before posting. If you got different info, please provide the source as there's lots of conflicting info out there.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 07, 2020, 03:21:16 PM
Again, this is as per my accountant and I confirm with Roth & co too before posting. If you got different info, please provide the source as there's lots of conflicting info out there.
You can apply to both programs, and roll your EIDL into your PPP, but your grant will be deducted from your PPP forgiveness.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
Wells fargo said they are no longer accepting applications

https://update.wf.com/coronavirus/paycheckprotectionprogram/

And just like that they made $500 Million...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 07, 2020, 04:35:39 PM
So much for the 3BM, Chase has caught on  >:( ;)

(https://i.gyazo.com/19a661bfdb060faa12eb4a52652676fc.png)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 05:09:24 PM
When I go to Chase they tell you that you can fill out the form online, or if you get an error to fill out a call back form. I am the one getting the error message. Is anybody else getting an error? Not sure why they have the "official" error link. Looks very weird.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 07, 2020, 05:21:44 PM
I've spent countless hours researching the PPP. The way it's set up now, they clearly tried to plug most loopholes. But in the rush they did not close them all. However, when the dust settles a lot of people will get very nicely audited about their application. If you don't NEED it, don't sign up for it. Remember who you're dealing with here, the Feds themselves. PGFHGS. If you have doubts, wait for guidance, the program WILL NOT run out money for those who deserve it.

Do not lie on this question: "Current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant. "
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 07, 2020, 06:24:23 PM
I've spent countless hours researching the PPP. The way it's set up now, they clearly tried to plug most loopholes. But in the rush they did not close them all. However, when the dust settles a lot of people will get very nicely audited about their application. If you don't NEED it, don't sign up for it. Remember who you're dealing with here, the Feds themselves. PGFHGS. If you have doubts, wait for guidance, the program WILL NOT run out money for those who deserve it.

Do not lie on this question: "Current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant. "

Don't impose unnecessary fear. This is a loan that will be forgiven if you can provide the necessary info and docs, so I am not sure where you can go wrong. Of course if you fire your employees and take out the loan to "cover" their wages then you are in trouble, otherwise I see no issue. Most people have a legal business, and want to continue operating, but it's HARD to continue when your income is ZERO or close to it. EVERYBODY is affected by Covid 19, nobody can say with certainty I am GOOD.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 07, 2020, 11:08:31 PM
Again, this is as per my accountant and I confirm with Roth & co too before posting. If you got different info, please provide the source as there's lots of conflicting info out there.

Cross River's FAQs say that you can get both.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ltttc on April 08, 2020, 03:32:36 PM
Cross River's FAQs say that you can get both.
That's great. I'm following my accountant's advice as he's following this by the minute, definitely knows more than I do and I trust him. If a/o is advised to do otherwise that's fine. I'm sure things will keep changing as we're living it times when yesterday's news is hardly relevant today. Listen to your accountant and good luck to all
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on April 17, 2020, 12:14:42 PM
Did anyone actually got approved & received funds from PPP? and if yes from which bank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ReadsTheT&C on April 17, 2020, 12:28:56 PM
Did anyone actually got approved & received funds from PPP? and if yes from which bank?
These guys did! And through Chase. https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/potbellys-ruths-chris-snag-coronavirus-loans-meant-for-small-business/
I applied nearly 2 weeks ago (Sunday 4/5) for a small medical practice through BoA, followed all their instructions to a T and received 0. I know, world's smallest violin. I would say that Congress should pass more but based on the first round I can't imagine the result will be any different.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: bermo on April 17, 2020, 01:15:55 PM
Anyone know any nonprofit that actually got approved?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 17, 2020, 01:30:46 PM
Did anyone actually got approved & received funds from PPP? and if yes from which bank?

Yes. Local bank based in Ames, IA. I applied in Chicago, New Albany & Dallas as well but only Ames sent loan docs. Funded 2 hours ago.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 17, 2020, 02:11:18 PM
Anyone know any nonprofit that actually got approved?

Yes. Mostly from small local banks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: db23 on April 17, 2020, 04:19:18 PM
anyone apply with TD BANK?

applied the friday 2 weeks ago.

application went through, got conf number, no conf email and now two weeks later no money. called banker for status update (filled app online) she said that she knows nothing that the loan is through government.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Sport on April 17, 2020, 05:24:10 PM
anyone apply with TD BANK?

applied the friday 2 weeks ago.

application went through, got conf number, no conf email and now two weeks later no money. called banker for status update (filled app online) she said that she knows nothing that the loan is through government.
Yes, how did you apply friday 2 weeks ago, their app wasnt set up until monday 4/6
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 17, 2020, 05:38:02 PM
After receiving an email from a friend explaining that PPP might apply also to self-employed individuals with no employees, I asked another friend to research the veracity and get me info.

The second friend told me that he applied on behalf of the school he works for, and gave me the rundown of what seems to get approved (with big banks it will mostly be customers with a valuable relationship, with small banks it might depend on completeness of the application).

He advised me that if I want a chance at round 2, I better act fast and make sure not to apply with a large bank. The challenge is finding any bank that will even allow you to submit an application now, so it's ready for SBA submission once there's a reopening.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 17, 2020, 05:56:56 PM
After receiving an email from a friend explaining that PPP might apply also to self-employed individuals with no employees, I asked another friend to research the veracity and get me info.

The second friend told me that he applied on behalf of the school he works for, and gave me the rundown of what seems to get approved (with big banks it will mostly be customers with a valuable relationship, with small banks it might depend on completeness of the application).

He advised me that if I want a chance at round 2, I better act fast and make sure not to apply with a large bank. The challenge is finding any bank that will even allow you to submit an application now, so it's ready for SBA submission once there's a reopening.
Exactly.  Which small bank will accept random non customer apps right now?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 17, 2020, 06:00:06 PM
Exactly.  Which small bank will accept random non customer apps right now?

Look and you might find. Two small banks I deal with say online that they're not accepting applications. Another bank that I've spoken to in the past but haven't done any business with yet does have a downloadable application and an upload button. I will try to complete an application on Sunday and will then reach out to my contact at that bank.

There are many small banks all over the US. Look hard enough and you might find one.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 18, 2020, 11:00:04 PM
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-04-18/small-business-loans-coronavirus-unemployment?_amp=true
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 19, 2020, 12:07:47 AM
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-04-18/small-business-loans-coronavirus-unemployment?_amp=true

http://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/17/jpmorgan-says-it-has-26-billion-in-small-business-applications-left.html

"Chase has secured more funding for small businesses than anyone else in the industry," spokeswoman Trish Wexler said in a statement. 
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 12:28:48 AM
http://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/17/jpmorgan-says-it-has-26-billion-in-small-business-applications-left.html

"Chase has secured more funding for small businesses than anyone else in the industry," spokeswoman Trish Wexler said in a statement.

When I applied they said they were working on application in the order they were received. This kind of confirms that they bumped the larger loans to the front of the line (or the very small ones to the back of the line). I'd be more interested in what percentage of the loans were to companies with 5 or fewer employees.

Quote
About half the loans that JPMorgan made were for less than $140,000, and more than 60% went to companies with fewer than 25 workers, the bank said.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 19, 2020, 04:44:22 PM
Amex still accepting applications

https://americanexpresssbappp.force.com/s/login
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 19, 2020, 05:11:36 PM
Amex still accepting applications

https://americanexpresssbappp.force.com/s/login
So is capital one. There aint no more money so why bother?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 19, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
So is capital one. There aint no more money so why bother?

So if/when there’s money you’re further ahead on the handout line.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 19, 2020, 05:15:38 PM
So if/when there’s money you’re further ahead on the handout line.
At the rate theyre going and who is actually getting money its pretty much a waste of time. Do you personally know anyone who got money? Anyone here gotten money?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 19, 2020, 05:20:34 PM
At the rate theyre going and who is actually getting money its pretty much a waste of time. Do you personally know anyone who got money? Anyone here gotten money?

A few people here reported getting money in other threads.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 19, 2020, 05:27:20 PM
At the rate theyre going and who is actually getting money its pretty much a waste of time. Do you personally know anyone who got money? Anyone here gotten money?
I know ppl that have. and a lot of it. Key was/is to work with a bank that you have a live rep that can push the app through.

I saw somewhere that Chase didn't get through the first "5" minutes of apps.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 19, 2020, 05:34:23 PM
Amex still accepting applications

https://americanexpresssbappp.force.com/s/login

Not sure they are the best option (unless simultaneously applying with multiple banks). There seem to be reports that chances might be better with small banks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 05:39:12 PM
At the rate theyre going and who is actually getting money its pretty much a waste of time. Do you personally know anyone who got money?

Yes, several people. Mostly those who applied through a small local bank that they had a relationship with, but Crossriver got for lots of people.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 05:41:36 PM
(unless simultaneously applying with multiple banks)

Pretty sure you are not allowed to apply at more than one bank (and the application asks).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 19, 2020, 05:46:28 PM
Yes, several people. Mostly those who applied through a small local bank that they had a relationship with, but Crossriver got for lots of people.
Not sure what to think of CrossRiver. They obviously got some people approved, I wonder how many with no prior relationship. But they completely oversold themselves. They should have never opened themselves up to the public because they had no chance of processing even a  fraction of those applications and ppl relied on them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: herb on April 19, 2020, 05:51:44 PM
Not sure what to think of CrossRiver. They obviously got some people approved, I wonder how many with no prior relationship. But they completely oversold themselves. They should have never opened themselves up to the public because they had no chance of processing even a  fraction of those applications and ppl relied on them.
i got through them. no prior relationship
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 19, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
i got through them. no prior relationship
Nice! Lucky
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: herb on April 19, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Nice! Lucky
siyata d'shmaya i suppose
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 05:55:06 PM
i got through them. no prior relationship

Mind sharing how much? I'm wondering if anyone got a small amount ($10-20K range)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 19, 2020, 06:06:21 PM
If it's a company that you don't work for then it's an INVESTMENT for you. Usually the IRS requires you take some W2 payroll from a company that you WORK for.
I work for my own company, S Corp, but I'm not taking out any payroll, any way to apply and get anything out of ppp? Besides doing retro payroll
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 19, 2020, 06:08:06 PM
Amex still accepting applications

https://americanexpresssbappp.force.com/s/login
only Amex business costumers it seems.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 06:09:55 PM
I work for my own company, S Corp, but I'm not taking out any payroll, any way to apply and get anything out of ppp? Besides doing retro payroll

Don't think so. Maximum loan amount is 2.5 times your average monthly payroll costs (including benefits) from the past 12 months.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 19, 2020, 06:10:41 PM
I work for my own company, S Corp, but I'm not taking out any payroll, any way to apply and get anything out of ppp? Besides doing retro payroll
Not sure what your accountant told you, but one of the strict laws of S Corp is that you must take a reasonable wage compared to others in your field.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on April 19, 2020, 06:37:47 PM
Anyone know of someone who got through Citibank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 19, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
Not sure what your accountant told you, but one of the strict laws of S Corp is that you must take a reasonable wage compared to others in your field.
If there is a profit I believe
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 19, 2020, 07:05:26 PM
I got one. I specifically only took what I know will be forgiven, ie i did not borrow against (entire 2019 payroll/12)*2.5

Don’t need to take any more debt on at this time. I got $120,000 and funded on Friday. It will go to pay people who absolutely cannot be laid off regardless.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 19, 2020, 07:06:53 PM
I got one. I specifically only took what I know will be forgiven, ie i did not borrow against (entire 2019 payroll/12)*2.5

Don’t need to take any more debt on at this time. I got $120,000 and funded on Friday. It will go to pay people who absolutely cannot be laid off regardless.
Why not more? Certainly less costly than debt elsewhere, no payments for a year, and frankly there is a good chance the rest of the money will be forgiven eventually as well, IMHO
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 19, 2020, 07:08:13 PM
Why not more? Certainly less costly than debt elsewhere, no payments for a year, and frankly there is a good chance the rest of the money will be forgiven eventually as well, IMHO

Not borrowing what you don’t need is a good path through life my friend. I’m actually afraid the forgiveness process will be tough as hell.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 19, 2020, 07:08:38 PM
I got one. I specifically only took what I know will be forgiven, ie i did not borrow against (entire 2019 payroll/12)*2.5

Don’t need to take any more debt on at this time. I got $120,000 and funded on Friday. It will go to pay people who absolutely cannot be laid off regardless.
Nice!  Im happy to hear.   Its difficult times but at least to get the help that might be available is a big blessing!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 19, 2020, 07:08:53 PM
I got one. I specifically only took what I know will be forgiven, ie i did not borrow against (entire 2019 payroll/12)*2.5

Don’t need to take any more debt on at this time. I got $120,000 and funded on Friday. It will go to pay people who absolutely cannot be laid off regardless.
Thru which Bank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 19, 2020, 07:09:33 PM
Not borrowing what you don’t need is a good path through life my friend. I’m actually afraid the forgiveness process will be tough as hell.
Absolutely about the forgiveness.   I hope people understand that this might come to bite them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 19, 2020, 07:10:46 PM
Thru which Bank?

First National Bank of Ames, IA
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 19, 2020, 07:16:02 PM
First National Bank of Ames, IA
You had prior relationship with them?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 19, 2020, 07:22:43 PM
You had prior relationship with them?

Yes. Frankly, I reached out to 4 relationships at different banks, and only they even got back to me. The average American Banker has not slept in the last 2 weeks and has ticked off many good clients to boot.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 19, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
Yes. Frankly, I reached out to 4 relationships at different banks, and only they even got back to me. The average American Banker has not slept in the last 2 weeks and has ticked off many good clients to boot.

The banks are getting .25-1% of these loans, hope the bankers are making bank on this and not just their employers...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 07:33:15 PM
The banks are getting .25-1% of these loans, hope the bankers are making bank on this and not just their employers...

Actually 1-5%

 
Quote
SBA will pay lenders fees for
processing PPP loans in the following amounts:
• Five (5) percent for loans of not more than $350,000;
• Three (3) percent for loans of more than $350,000 and less than $2,000,000; and
• One (1) percent for loans of at least $2,000,000
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 19, 2020, 07:37:40 PM
Actually 1-5%

He’s referring to what the agents (brokers) are entitled to. The truth is it’s pennies, as the average loan was under $150,000 the average fee is tops $1,500. The guy who took above average loans did not need to use an agent. So I have no idea why the agents found this program worth the brain damage. Take our community for example, Eastern Union spent quite a bit of money on marketing something their fee was only 100 bips and was probably pushed to the bottom of the lenders pile.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 19, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
He’s referring to what the agents (brokers) are entitled to. The truth is it’s pennies, as the average loan was under $140,000 the average fee is $1,400. The guy who took above average loans did not need to use an agent. So I have no idea why the agents found this program worth the brain damage. Take our community for example, Eastern Union spent quite a bit of money on marketing something their fee was only 100 bips and was probably pushed to the bottom of the lenders pile.

Right, my bad. At 1-5% the banks are making a killing. JPMC’s ROI on this one must be epic.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 19, 2020, 07:44:49 PM
Eastern Union spent quite a bit of money on marketing something their fee was only 100 bips and was probably pushed to the bottom of the lenders pile.

They were trying to get a commission without doing anything.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 19, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
Right, my bad. At 1-5% the banks are making a killing. JPMC’s ROI on this one must be epic.

Back of the envelope figures of 74% of loans under $150K and average loan of $206K yields around $11B in lender fees. On a risk free note as good as a T-Bill. And tradeable tomorrow morning.

Who doesn’t see 2008esque bank bailout in this all over again....?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 19, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
Not sure what your accountant told you, but one of the strict laws of S Corp is that you must take a reasonable wage compared to others in your field.
but he said that the first year or 2 you can get away with it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 19, 2020, 07:53:31 PM
Back of the envelope figures of 74% of loans under $150K and average loan of $206K yields around $11B in lender fees. On a risk free note as good as a T-Bill. And tradeable tomorrow morning.

Who doesn’t see 2008esque bank bailout in this all over again....?
Neil Barofsky of 2008 fame called it before CARES Act was even signed! When you look at 2008 you see how much was written off on the banks books and how much toxicity the Maiden Lane vehicles took off the Banks hands its no wonder they were showing HUGE profits over the last decade. Every loan that they had written off and then foreclosed upon went straight to their bottom line. Pure profit. This will do that for them again. 
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 19, 2020, 08:09:13 PM
Btw the bankers dont have anything else what to do, as loans arent getting approved...
The only other options for them is answering phone calls for mortggage forbearance and delaying cc payments....
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 19, 2020, 08:28:52 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-19/shake-shack-potbelly-among-big-chains-tapping-small-biz-funds
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 19, 2020, 09:02:48 PM
At this point shouldn't banks and governments be able to figure out what amount of money is needed to fund this for all businesses

Chase seems to have a number It still needs to cover 26b
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 19, 2020, 09:05:11 PM
At this point shouldn't banks and governments be able to figure out what amount of money is needed to fund this for all businesses

Chase seems to have a number It still needs to cover 26b

ROTFLMAO
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 19, 2020, 09:05:24 PM
Pretty sure you are not allowed to apply at more than one bank (and the application asks).

https://www.inc.com/brit-morse/paycheck-protection-program-loans-multiple-lender-fraud-scams.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 19, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
How can i know of I'm scheduled to receive the eidl up to $10k grant?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 19, 2020, 10:52:00 PM
How can i know of I'm scheduled to receive the eidl up to $10k grant?

I applied and got a mass-mailed update to applicants that didn’t have anything substantial in it. It seems they are no longer accepting new EIDL applications and the ones they received are being processed on a first-come-first-served basis. I’m not holding my breathe.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 19, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
I applied for the EIDL grant about 2 weeks ago and just got a hard pull on Experian from the SBA. I did not apply for PPP btw.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YossieW on April 19, 2020, 11:46:50 PM
Update from Cross River Bank

https://www.crossriversba.com/

We are now accepting and reviewing new applications, with the goal of having them be ready for submission to SBA. In anticipation of increased demand, we have partnered with Kabbage to serve as many as possible.

We are also continuing to review existing applications, so that they will be ready for submission to SBA if the PPP Program resumes.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 20, 2020, 12:36:33 AM
Not sure what to think of CrossRiver. They obviously got some people approved, I wonder how many with no prior relationship. But they completely oversold themselves. They should have never opened themselves up to the public because they had no chance of processing even a  fraction of those applications and ppl relied on them.
I am retracting this. Apparently they did a lot better job than I first heard. Kudos to them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 20, 2020, 06:38:45 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Click on tweet to Read thread.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 08:14:38 AM
Invalid Tweet ID

Click on tweet to Read thread.

Wow. Some Yeshivas did really well.

BMG: $5,899,593
Yeshiva Viznitz $1,198,248
Torah Voddas $459,637
Touro: $7,558,879
YU: $2,479,795

It's all on this website. Click on Allocations

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/caresact.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 20, 2020, 08:16:07 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-19/shake-shack-potbelly-among-big-chains-tapping-small-biz-funds
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/20/burger-chain-shake-shack-to-return-10-million-government-loan.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shmobaum on April 20, 2020, 08:49:46 AM
Wow. Some Yeshivas did really well.

BMG: $5,899,593
Yeshiva Viznitz $1,198,248
Torah Voddas $459,637
Touro: $7,558,879
YU: $2,479,795

It's all on this website. Click on Allocations

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/caresact.html
Is this a loan or a grant??
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 09:16:39 AM
Is this a loan or a grant??

Grant
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yef on April 20, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
Can you apply to more than one bank in the hope that the at least one will be accepted? Or will it cause problems?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 20, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 20, 2020, 12:07:33 PM

This being said applying through Chase can be a big issue
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on April 20, 2020, 12:13:58 PM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chase-bank-shuffled-paycheck-protection-124109163.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 12:32:46 PM
How does it make sense for the big banks to have limits equal to the small banks?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
Not sure if this has been posted before but this grant can be incredibly helpful for many here and has not been spoken about much
https://savesmallbusiness.com/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 20, 2020, 02:18:51 PM
https://paypal.com/ppploan
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 20, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
Not sure if this has been posted before but this grant can be incredibly helpful for many here and has not been spoken about much
https://savesmallbusiness.com/

Good luck getting in
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 03:42:26 PM
This being said applying through Chase can be a big issue
So now the big question is Chase or Kabbage via Eastern Union....
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 20, 2020, 04:31:14 PM
So now the big question is Chase or Kabbage via Eastern Union....
Why not both?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
Why not both?
https://www.inc.com/brit-morse/paycheck-protection-program-loans-multiple-lender-fraud-scams.html
Pretty sure you are not allowed to apply at more than one bank (and the application asks).
How would I prevent them all from being submitted and then flagged as fraud?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: metsgiantsfan on April 20, 2020, 05:22:59 PM
i clicked on link, cant find where can find out  how much others got..pls assist. thanks


Wow. Some Yeshivas did really well.

BMG: $5,899,593
Yeshiva Viznitz $1,198,248
Torah Voddas $459,637
Touro: $7,558,879
YU: $2,479,795

It's all on this website. Click on Allocations

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/caresact.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on April 20, 2020, 05:24:16 PM
i clicked on link, cant find where can find out  how much others got..pls assist. thanks
+1
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 20, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
i clicked on link, cant find where can find out  how much others got..pls assist. thanks
Allocations for Section 18004(a)(1) of CARES Act: PDF (1.28M)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on April 20, 2020, 05:31:06 PM
Allocations for Section 18004(a)(1) of CARES Act: PDF (1.28M)
thanks
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 05:54:32 PM
Wow. Some Yeshivas did really well.

BMG: $5,899,593
Yeshiva Viznitz $1,198,248
Torah Voddas $459,637
Touro: $7,558,879
YU: $2,479,795

It's all on this website. Click on Allocations

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/caresact.html

United Talmudical Seminary- $4,482,702
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 05:56:15 PM
Wow. Some Yeshivas did really well.

BMG: $5,899,593
Yeshiva Viznitz $1,198,248
Torah Voddas $459,637
Touro: $7,558,879
YU: $2,479,795

It's all on this website. Click on Allocations

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/caresact.html

United Talmudical Seminary
$4,482,702
Talmudical Seminary Of Bobov
$949,733
Talmudical Seminary Oholei Torah
$538,150
Seminar L'Moros Bais Yaakov
$644,413
Rabbinical College Bobover Yeshiva Bnei Zion
$751,000
Rabbinical College Of Ohr Shimon Yisroel
$460,264
Kehilath Yakov Rabbinical Seminary
$334,422
Central Yeshiva Tomchei Tmimim Lubavitz
$743,134
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 06:01:39 PM
I'm appalled. Instead of putting teachers and Rebbeim on unemployment, where they can receive $600+, (a huge bonus for many PT employees in the chinuch field) they're making out like bandits.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 20, 2020, 06:04:17 PM
I'm appalled. Instead of putting teachers and Rebbeim on unemployment, where they can receive $600+, (a huge bonus for many PT employees in the chinuch field) they're making out like bandits.
its only highet education institutions. Yeshiva gedoilas, kollelim, not regular schools
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 20, 2020, 06:08:12 PM
So now the big question is Chase or Kabbage via Eastern Union....

Why via Eastern Union?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Why via Eastern Union?
Why not have a person to speak to?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 20, 2020, 06:09:20 PM
United Talmudical Seminary- $4,482,702

Amazing how the Zalis got $4.48M when you compare it in size to BMG
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 20, 2020, 06:11:04 PM
Why not have a person to speak to?

I hear. Regarding your question, anecdotally it seems that CrossRiver did a good job (Kabbage loans are from CrossRiver)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 06:13:05 PM
its only highet education institutions. Yeshiva gedoilas, kollelim, not regular schools
It's just a matter of finding the list...

https://eab.com/research/strategy/resource/cares-act-higher-education-faq/

Any recipient of GEERF aid, including states, K12 agencies, and higher education institutions, are expected to maintain their payrolls and make payments to their current contractors. However, like other Education Stabilization Program stipulations on payroll, this is not a binding legal mandate.

How much total funding is available to institutions? 
$12.56B
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 06:25:39 PM
United Talmudical Seminary
$4,482,702
Talmudical Seminary Of Bobov
$949,733
Talmudical Seminary Oholei Torah
$538,150
Seminar L'Moros Bais Yaakov
$644,413
Rabbinical College Bobover Yeshiva Bnei Zion
$751,000
Rabbinical College Of Ohr Shimon Yisroel
$460,264
Kehilath Yakov Rabbinical Seminary
$334,422
Central Yeshiva Tomchei Tmimim Lubavitz
$743,134
If you check out the last column you'll see they have to give a chunk of that as Grants and FA to sstudents.Parents should bang the doors down demanding to see that applied to their tuition.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 20, 2020, 07:41:55 PM
If you check out the last column you'll see they have to give a chunk of that as Grants and FA to sstudents.Parents should bang the doors down demanding to see that applied to their tuition.
I saw that.  I doubt it will happen.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 20, 2020, 08:03:09 PM
Not sure if this has been posted before but this grant can be incredibly helpful for many here and has not been spoken about much
https://savesmallbusiness.com/
APPLICATIONS HAVE CLOSED

We appreciate your interest in the Save Small Business grant program. Due to overwhelming interest in this grant program, we have reached our capacity and we are not accepting new applicants at this time. We know these are difficult times, and we wish we could help everyone who needs it. You can find additional resources to help guide your business through this challenging time here.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: tzifanya54 on April 20, 2020, 08:35:01 PM
Not sure if this has been posted before but this grant can be incredibly helpful for many here and has not been spoken about much
https://savesmallbusiness.com/
Did anyone get in?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 08:41:18 PM
I'm appalled. Instead of putting teachers and Rebbeim on unemployment, where they can receive $600+, (a huge bonus for many PT employees in the chinuch field) they're making out like bandits.

Before you make wild accusations, you have the wrong program buddy. The cares act is a separate program providing funding to help all colleges and students that gets automatically deposited in the account of each college or university without anything to apply for on the colleges end , a portion of which is to go to the students, based in part on prior pell. This has zero to do with the unemployment. How about calling each of the above institutions and asking mechila for badmouthing them without bothering to check your facts?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 20, 2020, 08:51:49 PM
Did anyone get in?
Yes.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 08:56:34 PM
Before you make wild accusations, you have the wrong program buddy. The cares act is a separate program providing funding to help all colleges and students that gets automatically deposited in the account of each college or university without anything to apply for on the colleges end , a portion of which is to go to the students, based in part on prior pell. This has zero to do with the unemployment. How about calling each of the above institutions and asking mechiras for badmouthing them without bothering to check your facts?
Whoa. Let me clarify.
Institution of higher learning are getting these grants based on their payroll. It is suggested that they use it to pay their employees, but not obligatory.
My outrage is based on the fact that I spoke to several teachers over the last week or so, and while they've all seen a reduction in hours, and have not received paychecks since after Purim, they've been told that they have not been laid off, and should not apply for unemployment. Capiche?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:04:35 PM
I'm appalled. Instead of putting teachers and Rebbeim on unemployment, where they can receive $600+, (a huge bonus for many PT employees in the chinuch field) they're making out like bandits.
1) What does this have to do with unemployment? Also, they are continuing classes so why would they put someone on unemployment? They need the teachers to continue working.

2) It’s for higher education institutions and based on PELL. There is a chance this will end up as an advance for the PELL they would have received.

3) Most of the funds are complicated to receive and need to be used for highly specific purposes, which they will be used for. We don’t know what they are yet. Perhaps they will be sending checks to students? Nobody has yet received the funding, let alone allocated the money, yet you’re already appalled with their use of it?

4) What is “making off like bandits” even supposed to mean? These are non-profit schools that generally need to fundraise to balance their books. The head of each mossad makes a salary, usually a paltry one at that. Nobody is lmaking off like a bandit”.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 09:07:47 PM
Whoa. Let me clarify.
Institution of higher learning are getting these grants based on their payroll. It is suggested that they use it to pay their employees, but not obligatory.
My outrage is based on the fact that I spoke to several teachers over the last week or so, and while they've all seen a reduction in hours, and have not received paychecks since after Purim, they've been told that they have not been laid off, and should not apply for unemployment. Capiche?

You are thoroughly confused. You are mixing this up with the wrong program. This has nothing to do with payroll or  employees in any way. These amounts are the CARES program. It has zero to do with employees. Zero.
Capish?
United Talmudical Seminary
$4,482,702
Talmudical Seminary Of Bobov
$949,733
Talmudical Seminary Oholei Torah
$538,150
Seminar L'Moros Bais Yaakov
$644,413
Rabbinical College Bobover Yeshiva Bnei Zion
$751,000
Rabbinical College Of Ohr Shimon Yisroel
$460,264
Kehilath Yakov Rabbinical Seminary
$334,422
Central Yeshiva Tomchei Tmimim Lubavitz
$743,134
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:09:08 PM
You are thoroughly confused. You are mixing this up with the wrong program. This has nothing to do with payroll or  employees in any way. These amounts are the CARES program. It has zero to do with employees. Zero.
Capish?
Did you read through how the grant is calculated? Definitely based on payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Whoa. Let me clarify.
Institution of higher learning are getting these grants based on their payroll. It is suggested that they use it to pay their employees, but not obligatory.
My outrage is based on the fact that I spoke to several teachers over the last week or so, and while they've all seen a reduction in hours, and have not received paychecks since after Purim, they've been told that they have not been laid off, and should not apply for unemployment. Capiche?
These grants are NOT based on payroll, they are based on PELL received. The teachers you spoke to were from accredited institutions of higher education? Anecdotally, my wife HAS received a regular paycheck from her school. It’s possible some schools (like businesses) are waiting on PPP funding to pay teachers but that is hardly them being greedy. Not to mention they haven’t got the money yet.

Again, no business/school will send an employee to unemployment when they are going to be working/teaching. It’s not exactly greedy to be paying staff instead of sending them to unemployment anyway..

Amazing how the Zalis got $4.48M when you compare it in size to BMG
It is based on student enrollment and PELL funding
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:10:34 PM
Did you read through how the grant is calculated? Definitely based on payroll.
You’re talking about the PPP grant. This is a different grant administered by the Department of Education. I will link to the website where they explain the method of allocation.

ETA: Here you go https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/caresact.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:12:16 PM
1) What does this have to do with unemployment? Also, they are continuing classes so why would they put someone on unemployment? They need the teachers to continue working.

2) It’s for higher education institutions and based on PELL. There is a chance this will end up as an advance for the PELL they would have received.

3) Most of the funds are complicated to receive and need to be used for highly specific purposes, which they will be used for. We don’t know what they are yet. Perhaps they will be sending checks to students? Nobody has yet received the funding, let alone allocated the money, yet you’re already appalled with their use of it?

4) What is “making off like bandits” even supposed to mean? These are non-profit schools that generally need to fundraise to balance their books. The head of each mossad makes a salary, usually a paltry one at that. Nobody is lmaking off like a bandit”.
1) part of the grant is an encouragement for them not to lay off employees. Too many unemployment applications from an institution will raise red flags, hence them not laying off officially. Classes are reduced by enough hours so that teachers would qualify for partial unemployment.
2) did you see the clause where it's encouraged but not mandated to be used for approved purposes?
3) see #2
4) ummm. Might be true for smaller mosdos, but beyond that, not so much...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 09:14:38 PM
1) part of the grant is an encouragement for them not to lay off employees. Too many unemployment applications from an institution will raise red flags, hence them not laying off officially. Classes are reduced by enough hours so that teachers would qualify for partial unemployment.
2) did you see the clause where it's encouraged but not mandated to be used for approved purposes?
3) see #2
4) ummm. Might be true for smaller mosdos, but beyond that, not so much...


“The CARES Act stipulates a funding formula to divide these funds among institutions. The formula has two distinct parts:

75% of the funds will be awarded based on the institution’s fulltime in-person Pell grant recipients as a share of the national total.
25% of the funds will be awarded based on the institution’s fulltime in-person enrollment who are not Pell Grant recipients as a share of the national total”
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:14:57 PM
1) part of the grant is an encouragement for them not to lay off employees. Too many unemployment applications from an institution will raise red flags, hence them not laying off officially. Classes are reduced by enough hours so that teachers would qualify for partial unemployment.
2) did you see the clause where it's encouraged but not mandated to be used for approved purposes?
3) see #2
4) ummm. Might be true for smaller mosdos, but beyond that, not so much...

Quote
The CARES Act stipulates a funding formula to divide these funds among institutions. The formula has two distinct parts:

75% of the funds will be awarded based on the institution’s fulltime in-person Pell grant recipients as a share of the national total.
25% of the funds will be awarded based on the institution’s fulltime in-person enrollment who are not Pell Grant recipients as a share of the national total.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:18:51 PM


“The CARES Act stipulates a funding formula to divide these funds among institutions. The formula has two distinct parts:

75% of the funds will be awarded based on the institution’s fulltime in-person Pell grant recipients as a share of the national total.
25% of the funds will be awarded based on the institution’s fulltime in-person enrollment who are not Pell Grant recipients as a share of the national total”

"Any recipient of GEERF aid, including states, K12 agencies, and higher education institutions, are expected to maintain their payrolls and make payments to their current contractors."
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:22:25 PM
These grants are NOT based on payroll, they are based on PELL received. The teachers you spoke to were from accredited institutions of higher education? Anecdotally, my wife HAS received a regular paycheck from her school. It’s possible some schools (like businesses) are waiting on PPP funding to pay teachers but that is hardly them being greedy. Not to mention they haven’t got the money yet.

Again, no business/school will send an employee to unemployment when they are going to be working/teaching. It’s not exactly greedy to be paying staff instead of sending them to unemployment anyway..
It is based on student enrollment and PELL funding
Agreed they are not based on payroll, but it is recommended that institutions maintain their payroll.
The ones I spoke to were from various institutions, both K-12 and higher learning. I'm happy for your wife. Wonder if that's the rule or the exception.

If you can't afford to pay your employees right now, the right thing is to allow them to go on unemployment. PPP can't be backdated anyway, and you can rehire everyone once those funds are received.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:23:06 PM
"Any recipient of GEERF aid, including states, K12 agencies, and higher education institutions, are expected to maintain their payrolls and make payments to their current contractors."
The funding amounts upthread were not referring to the GEERF. That is a state-administered fund for which no guidance has been received as of yet.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Agreed they are not based on payroll, but it is recommended that institutions maintain their payroll.
The ones I spoke to were from various institutions, both K-12 and higher learning. I'm happy for your wife. Wonder if that's the rule or the exception.

If you can't afford to pay your employees right now, the right thing is to allow them to go on unemployment. PPP can't be backdated anyway, and you can rehire everyone once those funds are received.
Is it ethical to lay someone off if you plan to and are able to pay them their regular salary? Especially with a lighter workload than normal?

Don’t know if it’s the norm. I just don’t know why you’re seemingly appalled at institutions with no evidence of wrongdoing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:26:13 PM
The funding amounts upthread were not referring to the GEERF. That is a state-administered fund for which no guidance has been received as of yet.
My mistake. Copied wrong para. Check out the chart. Recommends all institutions receiving grants to maintain payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:33:01 PM
Is it ethical to lay someone off if you plan to and are able to pay them their regular salary? Especially with a lighter workload than normal?

Don’t know if it’s the norm. I just don’t know why you’re seemingly appalled at institutions with no evidence of wrongdoing.
I had a teacher call me up yesterday. She usually works 4 days a week for a few hours. Her workload has been reduced to 1 day for a few hours. She hasn't been paid since Purim time. Putting food on the table has always been a struggle, but now she's close to her breaking point.
She called her school to verify that she's furloughed so that she can apply for partial unemployment and receive $600+ (a windfall for her). The school: you're not furloughed. We don't know if/when we'll be able to pay you.
My pain comes more from the fact that a few large institutions have not reviewed these options from the teachers perspective, to see how they can best benefit those poor struggling employees- who btw give a lot more than they get on a regular basis- and are instead using this to grab what they can. I understand that they feel like they're benefiting the teachers by hopefully (?) paying them backwages in a few months time, after they've received a few mil in funding, but from those hardworking souls experiencing this nightmare, that's not the case.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:33:30 PM
My mistake. Copied wrong para. Check out the chart. Recommends all institutions receiving grants to maintain payroll.
Ok, they would like them to maintain their payroll, of course. The schools are perhaps following suit. What is unethical about that? It’s not like telling certain non-essential staff to go on unemployment. And there’s no direct penalty for doing so regardless. In fact, schools would be best off collecting the grant and sending as many teachers as possible packing, where the state picks up the tab again.

Besides, your whole premise is flawed. If schools plan to maintain regular payroll why on earth should they send someone to unemployment? Isn’t that unethical and wrong?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 20, 2020, 09:36:56 PM
I had a teacher call me up yesterday. She usually works 4 days a week for a few hours. Her workload has been reduced to 1 day for a few hours. She hasn't been paid since Purim time. Putting food on the table has always been a struggle, but now she's close to her breaking point.
She called her school to verify that she's furloughed so that she can apply for partial unemployment and receive $600+ (a windfall for her). The school: you're not furloughed. We don't know if/when we'll be able to pay you.
My pain comes more from the fact that a few large institutions have not reviewed these options from the teachers perspective, to see how they can best benefit those poor struggling employees- who btw give a lot more than they get on a regular basis- and are instead using this to grab what they can. I understand that they feel like they're benefiting the teachers by hopefully (?) paying them backwages in a few months time, after they've received a few mil in funding, but from those hardworking souls experiencing this nightmare, that's not the case.
She should be eligible to file for part time unemployment (atleast in NYS) and receive the full $600
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:37:12 PM
I had a teacher call me up yesterday. She usually works 4 days a week for a few hours. Her workload has been reduced to 1 day for a few hours. She hasn't been paid since Purim time. Putting food on the table has always been a struggle, but now she's close to her breaking point.
She called her school to verify that she's furloughed so that she can apply for partial unemployment and receive $600+ (a windfall for her). The school: you're not furloughed. We don't know if/when we'll be able to pay you.
My pain comes more from the fact that a few large institutions have not reviewed these options from the teachers perspective, to see how they can best benefit those poor struggling employees- who btw give a lot more than they get on a regular basis- and are instead using this to grab what they can. I understand that they feel like they're benefiting the teachers by hopefully (?) paying them backwages in a few months time, after they've received a few mil in funding, but from those hardworking souls experiencing this nightmare, that's not the case.
Assuming they are not up to par currently in collecting full tuition for these same reasons, where are they supposed to get the funding to pay them? These grants are specifically designed to help them because of their financial shortfalls. You think schools are being malicious?

Forgive me, I simply don’t understand what you’re upset about. Teachers, like unfortunately many workers in the current climate, are behind on their wages because of the situation. Luckily, they will hopefully get paid back in full, continue to get paid, and get to keep their jobs with no interruption.

Where is a school at fault? Because they may be getting a grant in the future to help them cover their payroll?

ETA: A million dollars sounds like a lot but in a school with 1,000 students that’s $1K per student. Anywhere between 7-20% of regular annual tuition. Schools have very large budgets with many expenses and workers.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:38:10 PM
She should be eligible to file for part time unemployment (atleast in NYS) and receive the full $600
Exactly the point. School won't back up her claim and will reject her claim when they receive their letter to certify.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 09:38:42 PM
If schools got this Grant can they also have applied for PPP? Or is that double dipping?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:39:58 PM
If schools got this Grant can they also have applied for PPP? Or is that double dipping?
Shouldn’t be a problem to apply for both if you can
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 09:40:15 PM
If schools got this Grant can they also have applied for PPP? Or is that double dipping?
They can
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 09:44:30 PM
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 09:49:39 PM
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...
The grant has pretty specific usage requirements which aren’t clear as of yet, and it may be considered part of the financial aid packages schools already received. It’s not clear yet. PPP paid for 2 months of payroll and we’ll see what the grant ends up covering.

You can certainly ask for help if you find yourself in a tough spot because of corona but don’t expect to be allowed to stay in a school if you just stop paying tuition..
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...
Remember PPP is only for 2 months of payroll (forgiveness can only be used over an 8 week period)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 10:06:33 PM
Exactly the point. School won't back up her claim and will reject her claim when they receive their letter to certify.
So file and then when they reject price it to the state by not having retrieved a paycheck
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 10:10:22 PM
Remember PPP is only for 2 months of payroll (forgiveness can only be used over an 8 week period)

So 2 months of expenses are paid for. So there can be an argument for reduced or stopped payments next 2 months.

The grant has pretty specific usage requirements which aren’t clear as of yet, and it may be considered part of the financial aid packages schools already received. It’s not clear yet. PPP paid for 2 months of payroll and we’ll see what the grant ends up covering.

You can certainly ask for help if you find yourself in a tough spot because of corona but don’t expect to be allowed to stay in a school if you just stop paying tuition..

I agree that you cant just stop payments without having a conversation from the school. But I think the schools should realize the situation that a lot of the families are in and maybe give something back (and dont get me started on asking parents to pay for kosher tablets... schools should be paying for that completely).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 10:16:02 PM
So file and then when they reject price it to the state by not having retrieved a paycheck

The DOL can open a labor case against the school for not paying in a timely fashion. Wage cases are notoriously biased against the employer, and they always find more stuff to hit you with. As a Yid she does not want to be the cause of this. (I understand I came across a bit harsh before but I think my further explanations explain it a bit. She's making every effort to do things the right way without causing them any harm while still trying to put food on the table while they...)

In my opinion the school will undoubtedly come running with the check if she had the backbone to tell them about the above but alas she doesn't. Even if she did does that mean that only those strong enough to fight for it will get paid in a timely manner? Also, how would you feel about facing your employer after having declared a willingness to take up a case against?

It's a thorny subject and the teachers are being left out to dry, with a lot more at stake than the Mosed, who has donors who will help it survive come what may. After hearing what a few of them are going through, I just couldn't hold back. Hope I didn't personally offend anyone.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 10:18:41 PM
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...


I think people are missing the point. The argument makes sense if you’re already paying full tuition but the vast majority of parents are paying a negotiated rate. That negotiated rate is based primarily on the parents ability to pay. If there are two less months in the school year, assuming the parent still has the same ability to pay, there is no reason to discount the already discounted rate. If the parent’s income was impacted by the virus, the school may still have a floor as to how much they are willing to discount the tuition which is fully within their rights. Given that the schools expenses are somewhat lower perhaps they should give some consideration to accepting an even lower discounted tuition arrangement . But the basic premise that parents who are already paying a low negotiated rate -“what they can afford to pay”-should be able to withhold tuition is really missing the boat.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 10:35:09 PM

I think people are missing the point. The argument makes sense if you’re already paying full tuition but the vast majority of parents are paying a negotiated rate. That negotiated rate is based primarily on the parents ability to pay. If there are two less months in the school year, assuming the parent still has the same ability to pay, there is no reason to discount the already discounted rate. If the parent’s income was impacted by the virus, the school may still have a floor as to how much they are willing to discount the tuition which is fully within their rights. Given that the schools expenses are somewhat lower perhaps they should give some consideration to accepting an even lower discounted tuition arrangement . But the basic premise that parents who are already paying a low negotiated rate -“what they can afford to pay”-should be able to withhold tuition is really missing the boat.

Do you think the vast majority of parents are paying a "what they can afford to pay" tuition?

Schools expenses are somewhat lower? Most schools must have significantly lower expenses (due to PPP and Grant), if not almost zero expenses over the next 2 months.

I think saying that now, where literally thousands of frum people have lost their jobs or had significant reductions in salary that perhaps a school should give some consideration to a tuition break (where you are making it sound like the schools are doing us the favor) is really missing the boat.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 20, 2020, 10:39:37 PM
1) What does this have to do with unemployment? Also, they are continuing classes so why would they put someone on unemployment? They need the teachers to continue working.



4) What is “making off like bandits” even supposed to mean? These are non-profit schools that generally need to fundraise to balance their books. The head of each mossad makes a salary, usually a paltry one at that. Nobody is lmaking off like a bandit”.
seriously? No school I know has given a break for tuition so why wouldn't they be able to pay their employees?

Non profits? You know how much Harvard is worth? Check how much they got.

One thing I'm disappointed from Trump. He didn't manage to clean the swamp. Which benefits the rich and well connected. While businesses are going under because ppp is out of funds, they have 8mm to give to Harvard.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 10:41:17 PM
Do you think the vast majority of parents are paying a "what they can afford to pay" tuition?

Schools expenses are somewhat lower? Most schools must have significantly lower expenses (due to PPP and Grant), if not almost zero expenses over the next 2 months.

I think saying that now, where literally thousands of frum people have lost their jobs or had significant reductions in salary that perhaps a school should give some consideration to a tuition break (where you are making it sound like the schools are doing us the favor) is really missing the boat.

I see people advocating not paying tuition across the board, whether they lost their parnassa or not. That is not a reasonable position.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 20, 2020, 10:45:43 PM
I see people advocating not paying tuition across the board, whether they lost their parnassa or not. That is not a reasonable position.

I agree. However, I think it should still be a conversation with parents. I have not heard one school send out a letter or email acknowledging the hard times we are in and maybe showing how the yeshiva is applying for PPP or Grants to relive the strain on the parents. In fact some yeshivas have the chutzpah of asking parents to pay for kosher tablets!

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 10:47:18 PM
seriously? No school I know has given a break for tuition so why wouldn't they be able to pay their employees?

Non profits? You know how much Harvard is worth? Check how much they got.

One thing I'm disappointed from Trump. He didn't manage to clean the swamp. Which benefits the rich and well connected. While businesses are going under because ppp is out of funds, they have 8mm to give to Harvard.

Certainly many people have stopped paying or are paying less, as many people have a lot less money now and have reached out to the schools about it. Schools don’t need to be giving an across the board break to be down a lot of their regular revenue. Keep in mind the vast majority of schools face a deficit each year anyway, even with all tuition paid.

We are not discussing Harvard. Do you really think the schools in our community are getting rich and fat off our backs? If so, go open a school. You’ll soon face the grim reality.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 10:52:48 PM
We are not discussing Harvard. Do you really think the schools in our community are getting rich and fat off our backs? If so, go open a school. You’ll soon face the grim reality.
Plenty of those schools on the grant list have more than enough to go around...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 10:55:04 PM


Certainly many people have stopped paying or are paying less
Many is a gross understatement
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 11:02:42 PM
Plenty of those schools on the grant list have more than enough to go around...
Name one
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yzj on April 20, 2020, 11:10:56 PM
Plenty of those schools on the grant list have more than enough to go around...
????
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 20, 2020, 11:11:02 PM
Name one
Bobov, Satmar, Vizhnitz, etc. Not one of these stand a chance of defaulting.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 11:26:51 PM
Bobov, Satmar, Vizhnitz, etc. Not one of these stand a chance of defaulting.
Only because the richer chassidim will bail them out.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 20, 2020, 11:27:39 PM
Only because the richer chassidim will bail them out.
If they're still rich.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 20, 2020, 11:28:07 PM
Bobov, Satmar, Vizhnitz, etc. Not one of these stand a chance of defaulting.
The schools themselves have money, or the communities that support them?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 20, 2020, 11:30:47 PM
If they're still rich.
I am sure some still are.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: DarcheiParent on April 20, 2020, 11:39:03 PM
I agree. However, I think it should still be a conversation with parents. I have not heard one school send out a letter or email acknowledging the hard times we are in and maybe showing how the yeshiva is applying for PPP or Grants to relive the strain on the parents. In fact some yeshivas have the chutzpah of asking parents to pay for kosher tablets!
Unfortunately I agree. Schools are hoping to get PPP, grants, pell advances, whatever else is out there and then collect regular tuition payments like it's a regular day.

Honest communication from schools is very important. Be open with people and we'll be happy to pay whatever we can. Be sketchy with people and expect people to think about not paying any tuition for these months.

This is an opportunity for many schools to collect a tremendous amount of more money these months, more than ever before, but they need to communicate their plans!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Joe4007 on April 21, 2020, 06:15:00 AM
Amazing how the Zalis got $4.48M when you compare it in size to BMG
Approx how many students at BMG?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Joe4007 on April 21, 2020, 06:17:35 AM
How does it make sense for the big banks to have limits equal to the small banks?
It doesn't.

Any way to cancel a submitted application through Chase?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Buruch on April 21, 2020, 06:41:41 AM
I haven't seen a clear summary of how ppp or eidl works for a sole proprietor. Anyone have details?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 09:16:21 AM
I haven't seen a clear summary of how ppp or eidl works for a sole proprietor. Anyone have details?
I got $1000 EIDL as a sole proprietor.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 21, 2020, 09:19:50 AM
I got $1000 EIDL as a sole proprietor.

Mind sharing details? What date did you apply? What date did you get funded? And why not the $10K?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 09:32:43 AM
Mind sharing details? What date did you apply? What date did you get funded? And why not the $10K?

Also. What was the process like?

He got $1k because the new guidelines state up to $10k grant, $1k per employee on a certain date.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 09:36:22 AM
Mind sharing details? What date did you apply? What date did you get funded? And why not the $10K?
I don't know the exact date that I applied, was about 2-3 weeks ago. Got funded today. It's $1000 per employee.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
I don't know the exact date that I applied, was about 2-3 weeks ago. Got funded today. It's $1000 per employee.

In your original application you gave them banking info? I don’t remember including that.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 09:38:29 AM
Also. What was the process like?

He got $1k because the new guidelines state up to $10k grant, $1k per employee on a certain date.
I applied, they pulled my Experian report two days ago and got funded today.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 09:40:01 AM
I applied, they pulled my Experian report two days ago and got funded today.

Hmmm, I hope I don’t get excluded and forgotten because my credit pull fails (my credit is locked on all three bureaus)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: 12HRS on April 21, 2020, 10:09:09 AM
Hmmm, I hope I don’t get excluded and forgotten because my credit pull fails (my credit is locked on all three bureaus)

some got it without credit pulls. you should have included direct deposit info when you applied
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 10:17:44 AM
some got it without credit pulls. you should have included direct deposit info when you applied

I honestly don’t remember if I included it or if it was optional. I remember finding my routing/account number for something, can’t remember if it’s EIDL.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 10:40:29 AM
I applied, they pulled my Experian report two days ago and got funded today.

When did you apply? I applied April 1, no pull and no funding.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 10:41:09 AM
Hmmm, I hope I don’t get excluded and forgotten because my credit pull fails (my credit is locked on all three bureaus)

"Meet Kevin" says in one of his videos that he got it even though his credit is locked.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
When did you apply? I applied April 1, no pull and no funding.
I don't remember exactly, pretty sure it wasn't before that.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 10:43:01 AM
I don't remember exactly, pretty sure it wasn't before that.

Ok, waiting.......
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 11:00:20 AM
I just got my Chase PPP docs approval email, which they call "step 3", waiting for SBA Approval.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 21, 2020, 11:27:37 AM
I just got my Chase PPP docs approval email, which they call "step 3", waiting for SBA Approval.
Which Bank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 21, 2020, 11:28:11 AM
EIDL is also closed now, they dont acceppt new applications.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ltttc on April 21, 2020, 11:48:57 AM
I agree. However, I think it should still be a conversation with parents. I have not heard one school send out a letter or email acknowledging the hard times we are in and maybe showing how the yeshiva is applying for PPP or Grants to relive the strain on the parents. In fact some yeshivas have the chutzpah of asking parents to pay for kosher tablets!
In that case, you probably would want a letter every month acknowledging the school's hard times and deficits with maybe you showing how you can relieve the strain on the school -(which nevermind, needs to fundraise to close the gap in tuition for all of us.)
It is mind boggling watching the kochos, mesiras nefesh and stress which goes into running the finances of a school on a daily basis!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 21, 2020, 12:13:14 PM
In that case, you probably would want a letter every month acknowledging the school's hard times and deficits with maybe you showing how you can relieve the strain on the school -(which nevermind, needs to fundraise to close the gap in tuition for all of us.)
It is mind boggling watching the kochos, mesiras nefesh and stress which goes into running the finances of a school on a daily basis!
+10000
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: momo on April 21, 2020, 12:30:42 PM
Just Checked my bank account, funds pending for my ppp, thru cross river. No credit pull. Received notification from CR, after the gvmt announced that they ran out of funds, that they were processing my loan.  🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 21, 2020, 12:40:20 PM
Just Checked my bank account, funds pending for my ppp, thru cross river. No credit pull. Received notification from CR, after the gvmt announced that they ran out of funds, that they were processing my loan.  🤷‍♂️
When did you apply?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: momo on April 21, 2020, 12:50:51 PM
When did you apply?
April 7, or 8.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 21, 2020, 01:18:08 PM
Just Checked my bank account, funds pending for my ppp, thru cross river. No credit pull. Received notification from CR, after the gvmt announced that they ran out of funds, that they were processing my loan.  🤷‍♂️

A lot of people were approved by CrossRiver and only got notified after funding ran out
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 21, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
In that case, you probably would want a letter every month acknowledging the school's hard times and deficits with maybe you showing how you can relieve the strain on the school -(which nevermind, needs to fundraise to close the gap in tuition for all of us.)
It is mind boggling watching the kochos, mesiras nefesh and stress which goes into running the finances of a school on a daily basis!

A) Not sure about your childs school, but we do get a letter a few times a year for fundraising. Raffle by Chanuka, dinner in the winter, gifts for the rebbiem/teachers for yom tovim, etc. 

B) Schools should be more transparent with their financing.

C) No one is saying that it doesnt takes mesiras nefesh and stress to run a school. But you know what also takes stress and mesiras nefesh? Running fiances for your family. Especially during a global pandemic when people are suffering financially. Just like we should acknowledge our schools mesiras nefesh (which the school gently reminds us a few times a year) here in an unprecedented situation, where the schools are probably getting funding, it would be nice from them to acknowledge us as well.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 01:23:06 PM
Which Bank?

Read the post you quoted, says Chase.

A lot of people were approved by CrossRiver and only got notified after funding ran out

You mean approved by SBA when applying via CrossRiver.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 21, 2020, 02:49:54 PM
You mean approved by SBA when applying via CrossRiver.

Yes. I was saying that a lot of people who applied through CrossRiver thought they didn't get approved (because of the announcement that funding ran out), but they just hadn't been notified.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 21, 2020, 02:51:25 PM
Yes. I was saying that a lot of people who applied through CrossRiver thought they didn't get approved (because of the announcement that funding ran out), but they just hadn't been notified.

Right. But because the bank first reviews and signs off on the applications before submitting them to the SBA who needs to actually approve them, “approved by CrossRiver” might be misinterpreted.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ltttc on April 21, 2020, 03:14:21 PM
A) Not sure about your childs school, but we do get a letter a few times a year for fundraising. Raffle by Chanuka, dinner in the winter, gifts for the rebbiem/teachers for yom tovim, etc. 

B) Schools should be more transparent with their financing.

C) No one is saying that it doesnt takes mesiras nefesh and stress to run a school. But you know what also takes stress and mesiras nefesh? Running fiances for your family. Especially during a global pandemic when people are suffering financially. Just like we should acknowledge our schools mesiras nefesh (which the school gently reminds us a few times a year) here in an unprecedented situation, where the schools are probably getting funding, it would be nice from them to acknowledge us as well.
I don't like saying this, but you obviously don't begin to know a thing about the inside working of mosdoses, so I'll just answer but don't know if youll understand.

A)I'm "sure" you generously donate each time you get those letters from the school. (And if we do, we probably feel like we did s/t super special, when in essence it's only to fill the gap to cover the costs of our children's tuition - which no matter how much (or little!) we pay, does NOT cover the actual cost.)

B) If they would, you would be blown away and wonder how they can continue to operate with such enormous deficits. You would be tempted to pull your kids out and find them a diff school, only to be shown a very similar balance sheet by e/school.

C) I often marvel at those who lash out at schools for charging "so much" (Almost every school I know has to fundraise just to cover the gap of what we pay in tuition to what it actually costs!!! Which means the school have to shnor or borrow for your child and my child and e/o elses!!!) Why don't we lash out at the grocer for charging so much? They are making a profit, the schools are not. Why don't we lash out at the banks for charging interest, at the clothing stores, hotels, utility companies...-You get the idea?

The one "industry" that is charging us less than the actual cost -(Yes, they accept our children and educate them at a LOSS!) is the one that gets all the slack. Kind of ironic, no?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 21, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
I don't like saying this, but you obviously don't begin to know a thing about the inside working of mosdoses, so I'll just answer but don't know if youll understand.

A)I'm "sure" you generously donate each time you get those letters from the school. (And if we do, we probably feel like we did s/t super special, when in essence it's only to fill the gap to cover the costs of our children's tuition - which no matter how much (or little!) we pay, does NOT cover the actual cost.)

B) If they would, you would be blown away and wonder how they can continue to operate with such enormous deficits. You would be tempted to pull your kids out and find them a diff school, only to be shown a very similar balance sheet by e/school.

C) I often marvel at those who lash out at schools for charging "so much" (Almost every school I know has to fundraise just to cover the gap of what we pay in tuition to what it actually costs!!! Which means the school have to shnor or borrow for your child and my child and e/o elses!!!) Why don't we lash out at the grocer for charging so much? They are making a profit, the schools are not. Why don't we lash out at the banks for charging interest, at the clothing stores, hotels, utility companies...-You get the idea?

The one "industry" that is charging us less than the actual cost -(Yes, they accept our children and educate them at a LOSS!) is the one that gets all the slack. Kind of ironic, no?


This comes back to what I have said numerous times. It is the PARENT's responsibility to take care of the chinuch of their child, NOT THE SCHOOL ADMIN's! You need to make sure that there is a viable school for your child.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 21, 2020, 04:01:16 PM
I don't like saying this, but you obviously don't begin to know a thing about the inside working of mosdoses, so I'll just answer but don't know if youll understand.

A)I'm "sure" you generously donate each time you get those letters from the school. (And if we do, we probably feel like we did s/t super special, when in essence it's only to fill the gap to cover the costs of our children's tuition - which no matter how much (or little!) we pay, does NOT cover the actual cost.)

B) If they would, you would be blown away and wonder how they can continue to operate with such enormous deficits. You would be tempted to pull your kids out and find them a diff school, only to be shown a very similar balance sheet by e/school.

C) I often marvel at those who lash out at schools for charging "so much" (Almost every school I know has to fundraise just to cover the gap of what we pay in tuition to what it actually costs!!! Which means the school have to shnor or borrow for your child and my child and e/o elses!!!) Why don't we lash out at the grocer for charging so much? They are making a profit, the schools are not. Why don't we lash out at the banks for charging interest, at the clothing stores, hotels, utility companies...-You get the idea?

The one "industry" that is charging us less than the actual cost -(Yes, they accept our children and educate them at a LOSS!) is the one that gets all the slack. Kind of ironic, no?

A) Being sarcastic with an Ad Hominem attack does not change the argument. You don't know how much I pay for Tuition or much I give in donations.

B) If parents knew there was a deficient every year and exactly how much, they would be much more willing to pay. I hardly think I would be "tempted to pull my kids out of the school". I would be more agreeable to the higher tuition costs.

C) Yes I understand that it's hard to raise money to cover costs for the yeshiva. But that doesn't mean that the same mosdos could acknowledge that we are in a difficult time. Are costs lower now? Yes. Are many of their expenses being paid for. Yes. Are families struggling more than usual? Also yes.

Just because I want the Yeshivas to acknowledge that we are going through a hard time doesn't mean that I don't understand that they usually have a hard time. I understand that the Yeshivas need to fundraise. Why are you getting all defensive when I ask the Yeshivas to acknowledge our hardships? 
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ltttc on April 21, 2020, 04:08:59 PM
Just because I want the Yeshivas to acknowledge that we are going through a hard time doesn't mean that I don't understand that they usually have a hard time. I understand that the Yeshivas need to fundraise. Why are you getting all defensive when I ask the Yeshivas to acknowledge our hardships?

I don't like saying this, but you obviously don't begin to know a thing about the inside working of mosdoses, so I'll just answer but don't know if youll understand.

I guess I was right about the above
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 21, 2020, 04:13:13 PM
I guess I was right about the above

Fantastic argument
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 21, 2020, 04:17:51 PM
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115785.0

Please continue the Mosdos arguments in new thread and lets keep this thread for what it was intended to. Thanks
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 04:26:42 PM
They are claiming the burn rate is 50 billion a day. When is enough, enough?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 04:50:19 PM
Anyone here 1099, K1, Schedule C etc who got approved for PPP?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 04:54:05 PM
Thoughts on the possibility of legitimately doing Unemployment before and after those 8 weeks of PPP?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 21, 2020, 04:57:55 PM
They are claiming the burn rate is 50 billion a day. When is enough, enough?
You cant know as ppl could have applied by multiple banks and each bank includes them in their existing outstanding applications calculations.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yef on April 21, 2020, 05:08:08 PM
Anyone here 1099, K1, Schedule C etc who got approved for PPP?
You can apply if you have k1 or schedule c?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 21, 2020, 05:08:53 PM
You cant know as ppl could have applied by multiple banks and each bank includes them in their existing outstanding applications calculations.
We know they ran out already and a sure bet is they will run out what was passed today. This can't go on forever.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 21, 2020, 05:11:24 PM
I applied, they pulled my Experian report two days ago and got funded today.
Just notified that they pulled mine today. Small loan so lets see. Under 10k.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
You can apply if you have k1 or schedule c?
According to the rules yes, but wondering if they're pushing those to the back of the pile.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 05:16:57 PM
You can apply if you have k1 or schedule c?

I don't think K1 applies to the PPP loan, at least I didn't count it when I applied. I can't seem to find info anywhere on the web, but I don't think you can count it, so I did not include it in my application owith Chase. Did anybody apply with a K1 and have a single S-Corp and got approved by a bank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 05:17:39 PM
According to the rules yes, but wondering if they're pushing those to the back of the pile.

Please point me to the rules regarding K1, can't seem to find any online.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 21, 2020, 05:19:39 PM
According to the rules yes, but wondering if they're pushing those to the back of the pile.
I applied based on K-1. They pulled credit so we shall see.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Please point me to the rules regarding K1, can't seem to find any online.
https://www.univest.net/paycheck-protection-program
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yef on April 21, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
There are 2 diff things here. There is adding k1 to business ppp. We did not do that based on different advice and research.
Here it seems that the recipient ok K1 can apply for his own ppp like someone who gets 1099. Is that true?
Ty
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 05:54:24 PM
Just notified that they pulled mine today. Small loan so lets see. Under 10k.
Did you apply for EIDL as well and maybe they pulled for that? They pulled my CR for EIDL, I didn't apply for PPP.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 21, 2020, 06:03:45 PM
Thoughts on the possibility of legitimately doing Unemployment before and after those 8 weeks of PPP?

Before is for sure ok.

After I haven't seen anything that says it is or is not ok.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 21, 2020, 07:12:45 PM
Any thoughts on when EIDL round 2 goes live?

And are we limited to one EIDL per SSN? What if I have a few entities?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
My credit just got pulled. Applied April 1 at around 10am. Any idea how long after applying, the EIDL goes into your account?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 08:16:57 PM
I asked around and people who have helped other more than I have are saying that many are going for Unemployment, then PPP for 8 weeks, then back on unemployment again until things get better. So far doesn't seem to be anything in the law to prohibit this.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 21, 2020, 08:33:23 PM
I asked around and people who have helped other more than I have are saying that many are going for Unemployment, then PPP for 8 weeks, then back on unemployment again until things get better. So far doesn't seem to be anything in the law to prohibit this.
that means they are only gonna use the PPP money for specific time period? but doesnt the count down start upon receiving the funds? how can you pick and choose?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 08:40:00 PM
I asked around and people who have helped other more than I have are saying that many are going for Unemployment, then PPP for 8 weeks, then back on unemployment again until things get better. So far doesn't seem to be anything in the law to prohibit this.

Was thinking about that. Can someone owning a S-Corp. go on UE when sales are uncertain and there may be a fat K-1 at the end of the year? Or maybe a good sale coming in any day? How are these things calculated?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 21, 2020, 09:20:09 PM
They are claiming the burn rate is 50 billion a day. When is enough, enough?

But what logic is there some should get and some should not?
If it would be a raffle ok but connection with a banker is just unfair
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 09:57:24 PM
On PPP, Question 3, are they asking if I own any other companies at all? Or just related to this one? (if I have multiple corporations do I list all?)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 10:16:00 PM
that means they are only gonna use the PPP money for specific time period? but doesnt the count down start upon receiving the funds? how can you pick and choose?
For forgiveness, funds must be use in the 8 weeks immediately after receiving the loan. You can stop certifying UI the day you receive funds, and start again the day after those 8 weeks are over.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 10:17:30 PM
Was thinking about that. Can someone owning a S-Corp. go on UE when sales are uncertain and there may be a fat K-1 at the end of the year? Or maybe a good sale coming in any day? How are these things calculated?
Be honest. Go on unemployment when there's no work, and don't certify in a week that there is and you earned above $504 and worked 4 days or more.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 10:29:01 PM

And are we limited to one EIDL per SSN? What if I have a few entities?
Short answer is you can apply for each business for both PPP and EIDL.
Long answer: https://www.nav.com/blog/can-i-apply-for-eidl-or-ppp-for-multiple-businesses-599338/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 21, 2020, 10:55:56 PM
I asked around and people who have helped other more than I have are saying that many are going for Unemployment, then PPP for 8 weeks, then back on unemployment again until things get better. So far doesn't seem to be anything in the law to prohibit this.
if you are going on unemployment after collecting ppp then the ppp loan has to be paid back, no?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 21, 2020, 11:01:34 PM
If I'm not a new Corp (I'm more than 2 years old) but started payroll at q4 of 2019. Will I only get based on my total 2019 income? Let's say I have an income of 1k per month so I should get 2500 but here since they are basing it on q4 2019 and my total then was 3k so it would be 3k ÷ in 12 x 2.5? So only $625 instead of $2500? This is so messed up.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:02:21 PM
if you are going on unemployment after collecting ppp then the ppp loan has to be paid back, no?
You need to retain payroll for the 8 weeks you are seeking forgiveness for. That's it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:04:17 PM
If I'm not a new Corp (I'm more than 2 years old) but started payroll at q4 of 2019. Will I only get based on my total 2019 income? Let's say I have an income of 1k per month so I should get 2500 but here since they are basing it on q4 2019 and my total then was 4k so it would be 4k ÷ in 12 x 2.5? So only $832 instead of $2500? This is so messed up.
Don't think so. The question is "what is your average monthly payroll", and then they explain how you should go about figuring that out. Talk to your bank but my guess is they'll let you use Q4 '19 and Q1 '20, and divide that by 6 to get average monthly.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 21, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Don't think so. The question is "what is your average monthly payroll", and then they explain how you should go about figuring that out. Talk to your bank but my guess is they'll let you use Q4 '19 and Q1 '20, and divide that by 6 to get average monthly.
my accountant told me otherwise. He said it always goes ÷ in 12. He said my best scenario would be to include 1q of 2020 so will do q4 of 2019 + q 1 of 2020 for a total of 6k ÷ 12 is average 500 per month x 2.5 so I'll get 1250 max. I want to know why I can't get the full 2500!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 21, 2020, 11:15:14 PM
Don't think so. The question is "what is your average monthly payroll", and then they explain how you should go about figuring that out. Talk to your bank but my guess is they'll let you use Q4 '19 and Q1 '20, and divide that by 6 to get average monthly.

Pretty sure the rules of how to calculate average monthly payroll is in the law. I think there are exceptions for seasonal businesses.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
my accountant told me otherwise. He said it always goes ÷ in 12. He said my best scenario would be to include 1q of 2020 so will do q4 of 2019 + q 1 of 2020 for a total of 6k ÷ 12 is average 500 per month x 2.5 so I'll get 1250 max. I want to know why I can't get the full 2500!
I'm very surprised. The instructions clearly state "most people would use..." I suggest you call a banker who's done a few thousand of these.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:17:17 PM
If I'm not a new Corp (I'm more than 2 years old) but started payroll at q4 of 2019. Will I only get based on my total 2019 income? Let's say I have an income of 1k per month so I should get 2500 but here since they are basing it on q4 2019 and my total then was 3k so it would be 3k ÷ in 12 x 2.5? So only $625 instead of $2500? This is so messed up.
Did you have non-payroll income before Q4? Schedule C or something similar? You can add that too
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 21, 2020, 11:18:26 PM
I'm very surprised. The instructions clearly state "most people would use..." I suggest you call a banker who's done a few thousand of these.

Probably referencing new or seasonal businesses that have different rules.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 21, 2020, 11:24:44 PM
I'm very surprised. The instructions clearly state "most people would use..." I suggest you call a banker who's done a few thousand of these.

My experience - and I ended up getting approved and funded:

1) Used entire 2019 payroll off W3.
2) Add all federal & state employer taxes.
3) Add health insurance premiums.
4) Add all 401K employer contributions.
5) Subtract excess of $100K payroll per employee. Note - the taxes, health & 401K may take you over the $100K per employee, but thats ok. Only look to make "gross wages" limit at $100K.
6) Divide entire sum by 12
7) Multiply by 2.5

Submit W3 & 941's as proof.

Can you use Q2,3,4 2019 & Q1 2020? Yes, but good luck getting your bank to work with that, especially if you 941's are not ready
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:33:46 PM

2) Add all federal & state employer taxes.


Federal? That's clearly excluded.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 21, 2020, 11:35:51 PM
Can the PPP loan be forgiven by paying your own salary?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on April 21, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
Federal? That's clearly excluded.

Excluded from the forgiveness, not the loan calculation
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:48:50 PM
Excluded from the forgiveness, not the loan calculation

https://www.sba.com/funding-a-business/government-small-business-loans/ppp/loan-calculator/

What qualifies as “payroll costs?”

Payroll costs consist of compensation to employees (whose principal place of residence is the United States) in the form of salary, wages, commissions, or similar compensation; cash tips or the equivalent (based on employer records of past tips or, in the absence of such records, a reasonable, good-faith employer estimate of such tips); payment for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave; allowance for separation or dismissal; payment for the provision of employee benefits consisting of group health care coverage, including insurance premiums, and retirement; payment of state and local taxes assessed on compensation of employees; and for an independent contractor or sole proprietor, wage, commissions, income, or net earnings from self-employment or similar compensation.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 21, 2020, 11:49:52 PM
Can the PPP loan be forgiven by paying your own salary?

Sure. That's what most small business owners including me is doing. You need to keep the same head count I think, not sure about this though, saw conflicting reports.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 21, 2020, 11:50:48 PM
Excluded from the forgiveness, not the loan calculation
Both, calc for obtaining and forgiveness, are calculated the same. Besides for 2.5 and 8 weeks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 21, 2020, 11:51:12 PM
Sure. That's what most small business owners including me is doing. You need to keep the same head count I think, not sure about this though, saw conflicting reports.

You need to retain payroll for the 8 weeks you are seeking forgiveness for. That's it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 12:10:11 AM
Did you have non-payroll income before Q4? Schedule C or something similar? You can add that too
only k1
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 22, 2020, 12:18:49 AM
only k1
That should work.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 12:30:51 AM
That should work.
source?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 22, 2020, 12:38:42 AM
source?

I applied based on K-1. They pulled credit so we shall see.

https://www.univest.net/paycheck-protection-program
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on April 22, 2020, 12:40:33 AM
Only because the richer chassidim will bail them out.
Not exactly. Those Yeshivas that get collage programs are usually money making and make a dinner only leshem mitzvah. They don't need rich chasidim to bail them out
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 01:22:53 AM
Excluded from the forgiveness, not the loan calculation
Didn’t you mention you were only applying for a loan amount you know will be forgiven? Just curious about that, if there’s something I’m missing
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 01:25:54 AM
A) Being sarcastic with an Ad Hominem attack does not change the argument. You don't know how much I pay for Tuition or much I give in donations.

B) If parents knew there was a deficient every year and exactly how much, they would be much more willing to pay. I hardly think I would be "tempted to pull my kids out of the school". I would be more agreeable to the higher tuition costs.

C) Yes I understand that it's hard to raise money to cover costs for the yeshiva. But that doesn't mean that the same mosdos could acknowledge that we are in a difficult time. Are costs lower now? Yes. Are many of their expenses being paid for. Yes. Are families struggling more than usual? Also yes.

Just because I want the Yeshivas to acknowledge that we are going through a hard time doesn't mean that I don't understand that they usually have a hard time. I understand that the Yeshivas need to fundraise. Why are you getting all defensive when I ask the Yeshivas to acknowledge our hardships?
There is no equivalence. They send you a letter asking to chip in more because it’s hard for THEM, so now YOU should contact them if you’re struggling, as I mentioned up thread. I hope they would work with you if you reached out and explained your predicament. Why should they reach out to offer you help you never indicated you need? Do you regularly volunteer extra funds to them without them asking?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 01:29:07 AM
That should work.
So if I dont have any payroll, just a k1, can i apply as well? or only when i have payroll can i add k1?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 01:49:28 AM
Q:           What are my payroll costs?

A:           

Compensation to employees, employer portion of payments for group health insurance, retirement, state taxes on compensation (State unemployment (very small amount of money here)), and your net income from being self-employed (Limited to $100,000) (does not include 1120S K-1 income)

 
Says clearly does not include k1 income
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 22, 2020, 02:08:37 AM
Don't think so. The question is "what is your average monthly payroll", and then they explain how you should go about figuring that out. Talk to your bank but my guess is they'll let you use Q4 '19 and Q1 '20, and divide that by 6 to get average monthly.
Applied by Paypal Yesterday, submitted just 2019 payroll records from payroll company, in the morning they approved already the loan and send me the loan documents to sign, now waiting for additional funds. Maybe can try to submit payroll records showing that it was only for that quarters with a letter of explanation and it will work.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aspitz6342 on April 22, 2020, 02:47:46 AM
My experience - and I ended up getting approved and funded:

1) Used entire 2019 payroll off W3.
2) Add all federal & state employer taxes.
3) Add health insurance premiums.
4) Add all 401K employer contributions.
5) Subtract excess of $100K payroll per employee. Note - the taxes, health & 401K may take you over the $100K per employee, but thats ok. Only look to make "gross wages" limit at $100K.
6) Divide entire sum by 12
7) Multiply by 2.5

Submit W3 & 941's as proof.

Can you use Q2,3,4 2019 & Q1 2020? Yes, but good luck getting your bank to work with that, especially if you 941's are not ready

I used Q2, 3, 4 2019 and Q1 2020

Provided 941s for the 3 quarters from 2019 and a report from my payroll company for the period I used.

I got approved and funded by crossriver
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 02:49:11 AM
@cgr after doing some research it seems that there are 2 different k1s. 1120 and 1065. In short, 1065 which does pay se tax is eligible, and 1120 which does not pay all the se taxes (this is the whole idea of S Corp) is considered an investment and can not be included.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 22, 2020, 07:35:35 AM
Applied by Paypal Yesterday, submitted just 2019 payroll records from payroll company, in the morning they approved already the loan and send me the loan documents to sign, now waiting for additional funds. Maybe can try to submit payroll records showing that it was only for that quarters with a letter of explanation and it will work.

Good data point here. I think it can’t hurt to apply at a few more places and only sign loan documents at the lender that delivers them to me first. Chances are they submit to SBA soonest and I have highest likelihood of getting my loan before funds run out.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 22, 2020, 07:43:30 AM
Submitted EIDL about 2 weeks ago and PPP through Capital One 3 days ago. They pulled credit yesterday and Grant portion is in my account this morning.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 22, 2020, 07:44:28 AM
Also wonder about the $60bn set aside for smaller banks. Where do Kabbage/PayPal and other fintechs fall in this regard?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 22, 2020, 07:44:37 AM
Submitted EIDL about 2 weeks ago and PPP through Capital One 3 days ago. They pulled credit yesterday and Grant portion is in my account this morning.

That’s probably just the EIDL part, no?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 22, 2020, 08:08:56 AM
@cgr after doing some research it seems that there are 2 different k1s. 1120 and 1065. In short, 1065 which does pay se tax is eligible, and 1120 which does not pay all the se taxes (this is the whole idea of S Corp) is considered an investment and can not be included.

Thanks, didn't know there are 2 kind of K1's. Figured it's so, because K1 for S corp. is like any other investment income there are no payroll taxes.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 22, 2020, 08:13:52 AM
@cgr after doing some research it seems that there are 2 different k1s. 1120 and 1065. In short, 1065 which does pay se tax is eligible, and 1120 which does not pay all the se taxes (this is the whole idea of S Corp) is considered an investment and can not be included.
I'm not familiar, but I'm getting a K-1 1065 form from a RE investment partnership and there is no SE taxes on it
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 22, 2020, 09:50:04 AM
Didn’t you mention you were only applying for a loan amount you know will be forgiven? Just curious about that, if there’s something I’m missing
When you think about it, they don't really let you apply for more. You're getting 2.5X payroll costs, to use over 8 weeks. 2X would go towards patroll, and the .5X would go towards mortgage interest/rent, utilities, etc, not to mention many are behind in payroll or other basic bills and shouldn't have an issue using 2.5X in 8 weeks when cash flows have suffered.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 22, 2020, 09:52:20 AM
@cgr after doing some research it seems that there are 2 different k1s. 1120 and 1065. In short, 1065 which does pay se tax is eligible, and 1120 which does not pay all the se taxes (this is the whole idea of S Corp) is considered an investment and can not be included.
Thanks!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 22, 2020, 09:55:21 AM
When you think about it, they don't really let you apply for more. You're getting 2.5X payroll costs, to use over 8 weeks. 2X would go towards patroll, and the .5X would go towards mortgage interest/rent, utilities, etc, not to mention many are behind in payroll or other basic bills and shouldn't have an issue using 2.5X in 8 weeks when cash flows have suffered.

Especially when (IINM) you only need to prove you spent 75% of forgiveness amount on payroll.

Even if you don’t have the full 75% in payroll expenses for whatever reason, your employees would appreciate a payroll advance and the government wouldn’t know the difference.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 22, 2020, 10:48:56 AM
Did anyone apply for PPP using also pension benefits contributions in payroll calculation and got approved?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
I'm not familiar, but I'm getting a K-1 1065 form from a RE investment partnership and there is no SE taxes on it
there's no tax on RE. Only on se. That's why re always goes with llc because u save the se tax
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Fiddy on April 22, 2020, 01:30:49 PM
April 7, or 8.
Do you remember what day you signed the DocuSign? Thanks!

Off topic - Just realized my Tapatalk was somehow signed in to my long lost account from when the forums started in 2008. So this is my first post since 2008  :)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 03:07:52 PM
can we get a list on whi is currently accepting apps? it seems paypal and kabbage are. Who else?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 03:12:06 PM
can we get a list on whi is currently accepting apps? it seems paypal and kabbage are. Who else?
quickloansdirect.com
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 22, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
Do you remember what day you signed the DocuSign? Thanks!

Off topic - Just realized my Tapatalk was somehow signed in to my long lost account from when the forums started in 2008. So this is my first post since 2008  :)
DDF user #43 with 1st post after 12 years. Love it :D
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 22, 2020, 03:37:09 PM
quickloansdirect.com

Seems to be Cross River Bank

issue is they make you sign that you did not apply with any other bank
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: momo on April 22, 2020, 03:55:38 PM
Do you remember what day you signed the DocuSign? Thanks!

Off topic - Just realized my Tapatalk was somehow signed in to my long lost account from when the forums started in 2008. So this is my first post since 2008  :)
a day or 2 after the gvmt announced that they were out of funds. So last week Thursday or Friday?Eta, it was Friday.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Kobe bryent on April 22, 2020, 05:02:50 PM
seriously? No school I know has given a break for tuition so why wouldn't they be able to pay their employees?

Non profits? You know how much Harvard is worth? Check how much they got.

One thing I'm disappointed from Trump. He didn't manage to clean the swamp. Which benefits the rich and well connected. While businesses are going under because ppp is out of funds, they have 8mm to give to Harvard.
Harvard reverses course.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/harvard-says-its-keeping-almost-9-million-in-stimulus-money-that-critics-like-trump-say-it-shouldnt-be-taking-2020-04-22
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 22, 2020, 05:39:40 PM
there's no tax on RE. Only on se. That's why re always goes with llc because u save the se tax
So K-1 1065 from RE income can file for PPP?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 05:52:05 PM
So K-1 1065 from RE income can file for PPP?
no because it's considered investment not income.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 22, 2020, 06:06:07 PM
no because it's considered investment not income.
Right. See that now. Thanks!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 22, 2020, 06:11:43 PM
I'm not familiar, but I'm getting a K-1 1065 form from a RE investment partnership and there is no SE taxes on it
SE tax is on your 1040, not your 1065 or K-1.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 22, 2020, 06:12:05 PM
That’s probably just the EIDL part, no?
Correct
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 22, 2020, 07:33:12 PM
SE tax is on your 1040, not your 1065 or K-1.
He probably meant to say there is no SE tax through it...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 23, 2020, 04:08:06 PM
Applied thru paypal and got denied based on missing docs  ::) ::) ::)

Why can't they just ask me to submit additional docs?

Any way to reach anyone by phone? Can't find any contact info.

And my credit score they made sure to pull  >:( >:(
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 23, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
Applied thru paypal and got denied based on missing docs  ::) ::) ::)

Why can't they just ask me to submit additional docs?

Any way to reach anyone by phone? Can't find any contact info.

And my credit score they made sure to pull  >:( >:(
Do they have a list of docs you need to submit?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 23, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Do they have a list of docs you need to submit?
yes. Loan calculation and payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 23, 2020, 05:26:57 PM
yes. Loan calculation and payroll.

Was denied too by Paypal, for "time in business" but we started in 12/2019!!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 23, 2020, 05:38:41 PM
Was denied too by Paypal, for "time in business" but we started in 12/2019!!
And no one to speak, right?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 23, 2020, 06:19:50 PM
Congress passed
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 23, 2020, 08:10:25 PM
Got my EIDL today. Applied April 1 before noon.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 23, 2020, 11:23:49 PM
Got my EIDL today. Applied April 1 before noon.

The grant or a loan? If the former, is that $1k per employee?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 23, 2020, 11:24:56 PM
The grant or a loan? If the former, is that $1k per employee?
Its $1k per employee up to $10k
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 23, 2020, 11:29:23 PM
Its $1k per employee up to $10k

I’m aware that that’s the guidance they’re offering, I’m asking what he actually got.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 23, 2020, 11:32:41 PM
I’m aware that that’s the guidance they’re offering, I’m asking what he actually got.
Thats what I got and thats what CPA I spoke with last night telling me other clients getting.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 23, 2020, 11:48:22 PM
Thats what I got and thats what CPA I spoke with last night telling me other clients getting.

So the SBA is going to exhaust all EIDL funding from the stimulus bills on the up-to-$10k grants? I believe they got 4 million applications before they closed the first round, my guess many of those are for small businesses with fewer than 10 employees. Still $5-30bn but not everything they got. Then again, If $30bn is only enough to give up to $10k/applicant, there won’t be potential for much more with 4m applicants.

The reason EIDL is so interesting vs. PPP, is their interest rate $1% and loan term is supposedly up to 30 years. Let’s say I got a legitimate/justifiable loan at those terms to keep my business afloat, I might choose to not pay it off early since the interest rate is so low.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 24, 2020, 12:26:59 AM
I’m aware that that’s the guidance they’re offering, I’m asking what he actually got.
That is what I got.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 24, 2020, 12:46:40 AM
Got my EIDL today. Applied April 1 before noon.
Got mine, applied I think they day after it passed
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 24, 2020, 01:19:28 AM
I don't think (at least the people I spoke to) anybody got more than 1K per employee up to 10K even if requested. Unless nobody requested more than the forgiven portion.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 24, 2020, 01:54:34 AM
I applied for PPP through kabbage. As self employed.   I submitted my schedule c from 2019, but now they say they need more info.  See attached and let me know if you have any other ideas what to submit. Thanks
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: S209 on April 24, 2020, 01:59:48 AM
I don't think (at least the people I spoke to) anybody got more than 1K per employee up to 10K even if requested. Unless nobody requested more than the forgiven portion.
As far as the EIDL? Max grant was always 10K
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 24, 2020, 06:48:23 AM
Just to understand, everyone here who says they got EIDL just got a deposit to their account after applying, with no personal/specific contact with/from the SBA since applying?

What this basically means is that I should hope for funds to suddenly show up? Nice.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 24, 2020, 06:52:02 AM
I applied for PPP through kabbage. As self employed.   I submitted my schedule c from 2019, but now they say they need more info.  See attached and let me know if you have any other ideas what to submit. Thanks

Annoying. I think they had some confusing options for sole proprietor where it wasn’t obvious how to tell them you’re unincorporated. Their application had no back button and no way to edit the relevant fields (the final screen before submit did not allow editing the two relevant fields). I think I selected the wrong option and might end up in this situation too, and there’s probably no one to talk to either...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 24, 2020, 10:11:35 AM
Annoying. I think they had some confusing options for sole proprietor where it wasn’t obvious how to tell them you’re unincorporated. Their application had no back button and no way to edit the relevant fields (the final screen before submit did not allow editing the two relevant fields). I think I selected the wrong option and might end up in this situation too, and there’s probably no one to talk to either...
I just re uploaded my tax return that includes the schedule c.  Hopefully that helps
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 24, 2020, 10:21:25 AM
Is the SBA accepting new PPP applications yet?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 24, 2020, 10:25:55 AM
Just to understand, everyone here who says they got EIDL just got a deposit to their account after applying, with no personal/specific contact with/from the SBA since applying?

What this basically means is that I should hope for funds to suddenly show up? Nice.
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 24, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.
Same here...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 24, 2020, 11:01:56 AM
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.

Hope I put 1 then. Can’t remember for sure.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 24, 2020, 11:04:20 AM
Is the SBA accepting new PPP applications yet?

You would apply with SBA directly for EIDL, and a don’t think they’re accepting more applications yet.

You can apply with banks for PPP, and those banks will hopefully submit to SBA once they complete their review of your application to make sure it’s complete and meets the criteria. I don’t think SBA announced yet that they’re accepting more applications from banks. It’s also possible that SBA also has applications that are pending from when they ran out of funds.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 24, 2020, 11:42:38 AM
Applied PPP by Paypal on Tuesday. Checked every day status, was just written that it is under review. Today I checked and it says, that I dont have a current application with them. Didnt receive any communication from them. Anyone?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 24, 2020, 11:49:16 AM
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.
same :(
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 24, 2020, 11:55:08 AM
yes. Loan calculation and payroll.

Is the list posted somewhere?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 24, 2020, 02:11:02 PM
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.
I put 0 employees for sole proprietor and got $1000. I don't know if that's the case with corporations though.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 24, 2020, 02:14:40 PM
Pro tip when applying for PPP at large banks where there is nobody to talk to-Include a sheet showing each item you are including for the calculation and where it is supported in the uploaded documents.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 24, 2020, 02:15:24 PM
Applied PPP by Paypal on Tuesday. Checked every day status, was just written that it is under review. Today I checked and it says, that I dont have a current application with them. Didnt receive any communication from them. Anyone?
Where can you check the status?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 24, 2020, 02:15:58 PM
Pro tip when applying for PPP at large banks where there is nobody to talk to-Include a sheet showing each item you are including for the calculation and where it is supported in the uploaded documents.
Any banks that didnt accept till now new applications opened up already?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 24, 2020, 02:16:52 PM
Where can you check the status?
https://my.loanbuilder.com/:country/login
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 24, 2020, 02:20:54 PM
https://my.loanbuilder.com/:country/login
Thanks
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 24, 2020, 02:59:04 PM
Applied PPP by Paypal on Tuesday. Checked every day status, was just written that it is under review. Today I checked and it says, that I dont have a current application with them. Didnt receive any communication from them. Anyone?

I had the same, after a day I got an email I was rejected
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 24, 2020, 03:13:25 PM
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.

I understand you’re discussing EIDL but I did the same for the loan when I applied through eastern union / kabbage & I spoke to somebody at EU who told me to just redo the app. Could be the same would apply for the other ppl who said they made a mistake when applying for the loan.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 24, 2020, 03:34:50 PM
I had the same, after a day I got an email I was rejected
I didnt receive an email. just when I login it says that I dont have any applications with them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 24, 2020, 06:26:01 PM
Kabbage.com just sent out the following:

Quote
Congrats! Your Paycheck Protection Program (PPP)* loan application for ExGingi has been reviewed and is ready to submit.

The SBA will begin accepting applications again on Monday, April 27. We will submit your application as soon as we can. Please keep in mind there may still be delays in the process outside of our control, but we will keep you updated.

DW got the same email.

I also just got an email from my bank (small bank located in MO) that they are now again accepting applications. Any point in applying there too? Multiple banks? Through AMEX?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 24, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
Kabbage.com just sent out the following:

DW got the same email.

I also just got an email from my bank (small bank located in MO) that they are now again accepting applications. Any point in applying there too? Multiple banks? Through AMEX?

Last round there seems there was loading problems with the SBA
So having an approved application by a bank may not mean it will be able to load it to the SBA in time

Chase advised its clients to try other banks too
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 24, 2020, 06:59:07 PM
Chase advised its clients to try other banks too

Chase has $26bn lined up, they’re advising people to go elsewhere because SBA isn’t going to approve people applying with Chase today, the new money will be gone by the time it’s ready to go to SBA.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 25, 2020, 10:29:50 PM
What this basically means is that I should hope for funds to suddenly show up? Nice.

Haha, funds posted to my account yesterday, I had already gotten by EIDL "grant" when I posted that.

Is the EIDL grant taxable? Is it considered income w/r/t unemployment?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 25, 2020, 10:43:59 PM
Now that PPP was expanded (more funds), SBA will start accepting/processing applications from banks starting Monday April 27th.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 25, 2020, 10:52:22 PM
From Chase

We continue to work hard to prepare as many applications as possible for processing when the SBA begins taking new applications. However, the SBA recently issued new guidance that we want to communicate to customers whose application is in process as well as those who have already received funding.

The new guidance strengthens some of the language regarding qualifications for a Paycheck Protection Program Loan. Specifically, we would like to remind you:
1.   When you applied you certified that “current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant.”
2.   You have the opportunity to withdraw your application if you do not feel you meet this criteria.
3.   If you’ve already been funded, and you believe you do not meet this criteria, you can repay your loan by May 7, 2020 and the SBA will treat that repayment as being in good faith.
If you cannot certify and want us to stop processing your application or you want to return your funding, you’ll need to follow the instructions at the bottom of this email.
Read the Important Information below before you make any decisions. Please be sure to read the FAQ shown below in its entirety and, if necessary, consult with your counsel or advisor:


31. Question: Do businesses owned by large companies with adequate sources of liquidity to support the business's ongoing operations qualify for a PPP loan?
Answer: In addition to reviewing applicable affiliation rules to determine eligibility, all borrowers must assess their economic need for a PPP loan under the standard established by the CARES Act and the PPP regulations at the time of the loan application. Although the CARES Act suspends the ordinary requirement that borrowers must be unable to obtain credit elsewhere (as defined in section 3(h) of the Small Business Act), borrowers still must certify in good faith that their PPP loan request is necessary. Specifically, before submitting a PPP application, all borrowers should review carefully the required certification that "current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant." Borrowers must make this certification in good faith, taking into account their current business activity and their ability to access other sources of liquidity sufficient to support their ongoing operations in a manner that is not significantly detrimental to the business. For example, it is unlikely that a public company with substantial market value and access to capital markets will be able to make the required certification in good faith, and such a company should be prepared to demonstrate to SBA, upon request, the basis for its certification.
Lenders may rely on a borrower's certification regarding the necessity of the loan request. Any borrower that applied for a PPP loan prior to the issuance of this guidance and repays the loan in full by May 7, 2020 will be deemed by SBA to have made the required certification in good faith.
Please remember that you also certified you understood that knowingly making a false statement to obtain a guaranteed loan from SBA is punishable under the law, including under 18 USC 1001 and 3571 by imprisonment of not more than five years and/or a fine of up to $250,000; under 15 USC 645 by imprisonment of not more than two years and/or a fine of not more than $5,000; and, if submitted to a federally insured institution, under 18 USC 1014 by imprisonment of not more than thirty years and/or a fine of not more than $1,000,000.
If you cannot certify and want us to stop processing your application or you want to return your funding, please email us at PPP.Cancellation@chase.com. If you’ve already received your funding, and you do not believe that your business meets the definition of “economic need”, you may repay it by May 7, 2020, and the SBA will deem your certification to have been made in good faith.

Please include in the email:
•    Business Name
•    Best number to reach you
•    PPP ID:

This email address can only be used to cancel your PPP loan or application.

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 25, 2020, 11:03:23 PM
From Chase

We continue to work hard to prepare as many applications as possible for processing when the SBA begins taking new applications. However, the SBA recently issued new guidance that we want to communicate to customers whose application is in process as well as those who have already received funding.

The new guidance strengthens some of the language regarding qualifications for a Paycheck Protection Program Loan. Specifically, we would like to remind you:
1.   When you applied you certified that “current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant.”
2.   You have the opportunity to withdraw your application if you do not feel you meet this criteria.
3.   If you’ve already been funded, and you believe you do not meet this criteria, you can repay your loan by May 7, 2020 and the SBA will treat that repayment as being in good faith.
If you cannot certify and want us to stop processing your application or you want to return your funding, you’ll need to follow the instructions at the bottom of this email.
Read the Important Information below before you make any decisions. Please be sure to read the FAQ shown below in its entirety and, if necessary, consult with your counsel or advisor:


31. Question: Do businesses owned by large companies with adequate sources of liquidity to support the business's ongoing operations qualify for a PPP loan?
Answer: In addition to reviewing applicable affiliation rules to determine eligibility, all borrowers must assess their economic need for a PPP loan under the standard established by the CARES Act and the PPP regulations at the time of the loan application. Although the CARES Act suspends the ordinary requirement that borrowers must be unable to obtain credit elsewhere (as defined in section 3(h) of the Small Business Act), borrowers still must certify in good faith that their PPP loan request is necessary. Specifically, before submitting a PPP application, all borrowers should review carefully the required certification that "current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant." Borrowers must make this certification in good faith, taking into account their current business activity and their ability to access other sources of liquidity sufficient to support their ongoing operations in a manner that is not significantly detrimental to the business. For example, it is unlikely that a public company with substantial market value and access to capital markets will be able to make the required certification in good faith, and such a company should be prepared to demonstrate to SBA, upon request, the basis for its certification.
Lenders may rely on a borrower's certification regarding the necessity of the loan request. Any borrower that applied for a PPP loan prior to the issuance of this guidance and repays the loan in full by May 7, 2020 will be deemed by SBA to have made the required certification in good faith.
Please remember that you also certified you understood that knowingly making a false statement to obtain a guaranteed loan from SBA is punishable under the law, including under 18 USC 1001 and 3571 by imprisonment of not more than five years and/or a fine of up to $250,000; under 15 USC 645 by imprisonment of not more than two years and/or a fine of not more than $5,000; and, if submitted to a federally insured institution, under 18 USC 1014 by imprisonment of not more than thirty years and/or a fine of not more than $1,000,000.
If you cannot certify and want us to stop processing your application or you want to return your funding, please email us at PPP.Cancellation@chase.com. If you’ve already received your funding, and you do not believe that your business meets the definition of “economic need”, you may repay it by May 7, 2020, and the SBA will deem your certification to have been made in good faith.

Please include in the email:
•    Business Name
•    Best number to reach you
•    PPP ID:

This email address can only be used to cancel your PPP loan or application.

Noise for anyone here who’s applying. Who here can not certify in good faith that economic uncertainty means a loan from the government would support their business?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 25, 2020, 11:05:29 PM
Noise for anyone here who’s applying. Who here can not certify in good faith that economic uncertainty means a loan from the government would support their business?

This is probably in response to the publicly about the huge companies getting money. (The FAQ explicitly references publicly traded companies). The question is, when they return it, will that mean that more is available for small businesses?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 25, 2020, 11:07:24 PM
Maybe grocery stores or other stores that have regular sales volumes.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 25, 2020, 11:09:15 PM
This is probably in response to the publicly about the huge companies getting money. (The FAQ explicitly references publicly traded companies). The question is, when they return it, will that mean that more is available for small businesses?

A few high profile companies will return money. My guess is it’ll add up to less than $1bn, probably much less (considering the loans are up to $10mm), meaning this is chump change.

In any case, don’t let any of this intimidate you or I from applying.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 25, 2020, 11:56:11 PM
I applied for PPP through kabbage. As self employed.   I submitted my schedule c from 2019, but now they say they need more info.  See attached and let me know if you have any other ideas what to submit. Thanks
I just reapplied under self employed.   It seems i did the wrong selection originally.  Because now they only asked for 1040 schedule C.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 26, 2020, 12:10:20 AM
A few high profile companies will return money. My guess is it’ll add up to less than $1bn, probably much less (considering the loans are up to $10mm), meaning this is chump change.

In any case, don’t let any of this intimidate you or I from applying.
These companies used the guidance allowing each subsidiary to apply separately to allow them to get much more than the 10m limit.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on April 26, 2020, 12:11:48 AM
A few high profile companies will return money. My guess is it’ll add up to less than $1bn, probably much less (considering the loans are up to $10mm), meaning this is chump change.

In any case, don’t let any of this intimidate you or I from applying.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/autonation-coronavirus-loan.amp
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 26, 2020, 12:28:27 AM
I just reapplied under self employed.   It seems i did the wrong selection originally.  Because now they only asked for 1040 schedule C.
If someone didn't file 2019 yet, can they provide any other documents?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 26, 2020, 12:30:11 AM
If someone didn't file 2019 yet, can they provide any other documents?
I remember reading that a draft return could do the job
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 26, 2020, 04:03:47 AM
If I'm not a new Corp (I'm more than 2 years old) but started payroll at q4 of 2019. Will I only get based on my total 2019 income? Let's say I have an income of 1k per month so I should get 2500 but here since they are basing it on q4 2019 and my total then was 3k so it would be 3k ÷ in 12 x 2.5? So only $625 instead of $2500? This is so messed up.
Question: What time period should borrowers use to determine their number of
employees and payroll costs to calculate their maximum loan amounts?

Answer: In general, borrowers can calculate their aggregate payroll costs using data
either from the previous 12 months or from calendar year 2019. For seasonal businesses,
the applicant may use average monthly payroll for the period between February 15, 2019,
or March 1, 2019, and June 30, 2019. An applicant that was not in business from
February 15, 2019 to June 30, 2019 may use the average monthly payroll costs for the
period January 1, 2020 through February 29, 2020.

Borrowers may use their average employment over the same time periods to determine
their number of employees, for the purposes of applying an employee-based size
standard. Alternatively, borrowers may elect to use SBA’s usual calculation: the average
number of employees per pay period in the 12 completed calendar months prior to the
date of the loan application (or the average number of employees for each of the pay
periods that the business has been operational, if it has not been operational for 12
months).



https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yammer on April 26, 2020, 05:36:58 AM
Applied thru paypal and got denied based on missing docs  ::) ::) ::)

Why can't they just ask me to submit additional docs?

Any way to reach anyone by phone? Can't find any contact info.

And my credit score they made sure to pull  >:( >:(
Hard pull for PPP??
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 26, 2020, 10:25:22 AM
Hard pull for PPP??
You better believe it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 26, 2020, 11:42:24 AM
You better believe it.
Officially they don't care about your credit...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 26, 2020, 11:52:10 AM
Officially they don't care about your credit...
But they pull no matter. Mine from Experian. We should start a poll where it pulled form.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 11:55:41 AM
Officially they don't care about your credit...

Maybe they pull to verify your identity? Not defending the practice, but they’re probably piggybacking on existing processes.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 26, 2020, 12:06:48 PM
Question: What time period should borrowers use to determine their number of
employees and payroll costs to calculate their maximum loan amounts?

Answer: In general, borrowers can calculate their aggregate payroll costs using data
either from the previous 12 months or from calendar year 2019. For seasonal businesses,
the applicant may use average monthly payroll for the period between February 15, 2019,
or March 1, 2019, and June 30, 2019. An applicant that was not in business from
February 15, 2019 to June 30, 2019 may use the average monthly payroll costs for the
period January 1, 2020 through February 29, 2020.

Borrowers may use their average employment over the same time periods to determine
their number of employees, for the purposes of applying an employee-based size
standard. Alternatively, borrowers may elect to use SBA’s usual calculation: the average
number of employees per pay period in the 12 completed calendar months prior to the
date of the loan application (or the average number of employees for each of the pay
periods that the business has been operational, if it has not been operational for 12
months).



https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf
Interesting. But I did not see any bank giving the option to calculate like this?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 12:09:29 PM
Interesting. But I did not see any bank giving the option to calculate like this?

Maybe a bank you have a relationship with, someone to talk to?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yammer on April 26, 2020, 02:02:19 PM
You better believe it.
Hard pull for PPP??
I definitely remember reading on certain PPP lending pages ( before the application), that it will not affect your credit. ( Could be it was even PayPal )
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 26, 2020, 02:05:33 PM
Hard pull for PPP??
https://www.zenefits.com/workest/what-you-need-to-know-about-credit-scores-eidls-and-ppp-loans/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yammer on April 26, 2020, 02:10:24 PM
https://www.zenefits.com/workest/what-you-need-to-know-about-credit-scores-eidls-and-ppp-loans/
Just taking me to the home apge
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 26, 2020, 02:22:38 PM
Just taking me to the home apge
Not sure why.

Why does the SBA pull your credit?
Lenders need to make sure you’re accurately representing yourself and your business, and credit scores are a quick way to do so.
“The SBA will pull (known as a hard pull) your credit prior to providing you with a loan to assess your credit report and score in order to determine your creditworthiness,” Woodley said.
Your credit score gives a good indication of whether or not you’ll pay your bills. But much like your personal credit score, you don’t have just one business credit score but multiple ones depending on the credit bureau pulling your credit report.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yammer on April 26, 2020, 02:27:48 PM
Not sure why.

Why does the SBA pull your credit?
Lenders need to make sure you’re accurately representing yourself and your business, and credit scores are a quick way to do so.
“The SBA will pull (known as a hard pull) your credit prior to providing you with a loan to assess your credit report and score in order to determine your creditworthiness,” Woodley said.
Your credit score gives a good indication of whether or not you’ll pay your bills. But much like your personal credit score, you don’t have just one business credit score but multiple ones depending on the credit bureau pulling your credit report.

Thanks

I understood that since PPP is a grant vs EDIL that's a loan.

I need to find on which App I saw it
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 26, 2020, 02:59:52 PM
Not sure why.

Why does the SBA pull your credit?
Lenders need to make sure you’re accurately representing yourself and your business, and credit scores are a quick way to do so.
“The SBA will pull (known as a hard pull) your credit prior to providing you with a loan to assess your credit report and score in order to determine your creditworthiness,” Woodley said.
Your credit score gives a good indication of whether or not you’ll pay your bills. But much like your personal credit score, you don’t have just one business credit score but multiple ones depending on the credit bureau pulling your credit report.
Can't they see my score without a hard pull?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 26, 2020, 03:01:06 PM
Maybe a bank you have a relationship with, someone to talk to?
I am with chase...

Besides that, it seems that to utilze this I will have to lie. Not there yet. I will have to say that I was out of business then. I was not. I just did not take out Payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 03:22:03 PM
Thanks

I understood that since PPP is a grant vs EDIL that's a loan.

I need to find on which App I saw it

PPP is intended to lend you an amount that can be forgivable if you fit the criteria. EIDL has a broader definition and is meant to provide funds sooner (not going to happen since SBA doesn’t have the capacity to underwrite these quickly enough) and lend the money over a longer amount of time.

If you get an EIDL grant and PPP, then the EIDL grant amount counts towards the PPP forgiveness. So say you got $1k EIDL and got $10k PPP, when you qualify for full $10k forgiveness on the PPP they only forgive $9k as you already got $1k from the EIDL grant.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Yoel on April 26, 2020, 03:50:07 PM
I applied only for the EIDL and got 2k, does this need to be paid back?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 26, 2020, 03:52:45 PM
I applied only for the EIDL and got 2k, does this need to be paid back?
No. EIDL under 10k without a loan agreement is a straight up grant.
If you receive additional amounts from EIDL with a loan agreement, or apply for a PPP and don't satisfy the forgiveness requirements, then you need to repay (with generous terms).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 26, 2020, 04:32:19 PM
Unfortunately I couldn't get my act together on time for EIDL. I hope PPP comes through, though I'm not sure how forgiveness works for self-employed without employees.

Also, I am right to assume that 1099s will be issued for forgiven amounts?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 26, 2020, 04:34:32 PM
Can't they see my score without a hard pull?
I don't see why not.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 26, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Unfortunately I couldn't get my act together on time for EIDL. I hope PPP comes through, though I'm not sure how forgiveness works for self-employed without employees.

Also, I am right to assume that 1099s will be issued for forgiven amounts?
It wont be taxable
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 26, 2020, 05:12:11 PM
It wont be taxable
Source?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
Unfortunately I couldn't get my act together on time for EIDL. I hope PPP comes through, though I'm not sure how forgiveness works for self-employed without employees.

I wonder the same, I don’t think they’ve decided this one yet.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 26, 2020, 06:04:27 PM
I wonder the same, I don’t think they’ve decided this one yet.

I guess the rules are being made up as they go along.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 07:10:22 PM
I guess the rules are being made up as they go along.

Yup, forgiveness is only a topic once it’s been 8 weeks since the first loan got funded. Any idea when that was?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 26, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
Source?
Can a forgiven loan be considered taxable?

Any amount of loan forgiven as part of the PPP is excluded from gross income, and as such, is not taxable.

https://aronsonllc.com/paycheck-protection-program-ppp-faq/

The Question is if the expenses will also be deductible
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 07:19:13 PM
Can a forgiven loan be considered taxable?

Any amount of loan forgiven as part of the PPP is excluded from gross income, and as such, is not taxable.

https://aronsonllc.com/paycheck-protection-program-ppp-faq/

The Question is if the expenses will also be deductible

Expenses?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 26, 2020, 07:28:46 PM
Expenses?
Still waiting for guidance from IRS
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 07:43:38 PM
Still waiting for guidance from IRS

What do you mean by the word expenses? You mean the 25% of the loan not necessarily used for payroll?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 26, 2020, 08:15:42 PM
Kabbage just changed my status to "Your application has been submitted to the SBA for review"

any reason to get excited just yet?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 26, 2020, 08:15:57 PM

The Question is if the expenses will also be deductible

I think the question is will the payroll, utilities, and rent be tax deductible as a business expense even though you're receiving funds to cover those expenses? Or will the forgiveness mean that you need to zero those expenses out with the cash received.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 26, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
Kabbage just changed my status to "Your application has been submitted to the SBA for review"

any reason to get excited just yet?

If it's a simple enough application I think it sounds promising. Not sure how much due diligence the SBA does, but my guess is they're just rubber stamping the banks' underwriting.

Did you have a credit pull? Get any emails from them?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 26, 2020, 09:18:04 PM
If it's a simple enough application I think it sounds promising. Not sure how much due diligence the SBA does, but my guess is they're just rubber stamping the banks' underwriting.

Did you have a credit pull? Get any emails from them?
No, No.  i logged in online and saw the status change
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 27, 2020, 08:52:48 AM
Yeah. But it seems that if you are a business owner with no employees and when they asked for number of employees you put 0, then you will get 0. Wish there would be a way to update the app and put 1 employee.
Just got 1k even though I stated 0 employees on my application🙂
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 27, 2020, 09:10:34 AM
Just got 1k even though I stated 0 employees on my application🙂

Do you remember the day you applied
 just curious
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 27, 2020, 09:18:32 AM
Do you remember the day you applied
 just curious
4/3
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 27, 2020, 09:19:10 AM
Just got 1k even though I stated 0 employees on my application🙂
Nice! I'm Still Waiting

Do you remember the day you applied
 just curious
I don't think it makes a difference. It seems pretty random these payouts
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shmobaum on April 27, 2020, 09:21:39 AM
Just got 1k even though I stated 0 employees on my application🙂
Same here Bh
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 27, 2020, 09:22:51 AM
Same here Bh
Kabbage.com application didn't allow putting 0 employees.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shmobaum on April 27, 2020, 09:26:13 AM
Kabbage.com application didn't allow putting 0 employees.
Applied directly with the SBA site on March 31
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 27, 2020, 09:44:01 AM
Kabbage.com application didn't allow putting 0 employees.

I think they're talking about EIDL not PPP
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on April 27, 2020, 10:01:29 AM
I think they're talking about EIDL not PPP

Indeed.

Applied directly with the SBA site on March 31

EIDL was direct with SBA. PPP is only through banks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 27, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Just got 1k even though I stated 0 employees on my application🙂
Same here Bh


What type of business did you guys put in as?

Self employed? Maybe thats why you are getting even though 0 employees. I put in S Corp and 0 employees.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 27, 2020, 10:18:20 AM
Nice! I'm Still Waiting

Hopefully soon
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 27, 2020, 10:19:39 AM
Kabbage.com application didn't allow putting 0 employees.

As far as I remember I did. Spoke to somebody at EU, he said if you’re worried just make a new app.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 27, 2020, 10:20:17 AM
Nice! I'm Still Waiting
I don't think it makes a difference. It seems pretty random these payouts
Same here..... They gave a tracking number after filling out application but no where to search or call for the status...

Applied 4/2
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 27, 2020, 10:29:23 AM

What type of business did you guys put in as?

Self employed? Maybe thats why you are getting even though 0 employees. I put in S Corp and 0 employees.
I put in self-employed.
I do know others that applied same day with same type info and haven't received funds yet.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 27, 2020, 01:33:36 PM
My status with Chase is submitted to SBA.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Rivky on April 27, 2020, 02:41:59 PM
When are new applications for EIDL opening up?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 27, 2020, 02:46:29 PM
My status with Chase is submitted to SBA.
Where do you see that?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 27, 2020, 02:54:58 PM
Where do you see that?
In the email confirming that they received the application there is a link for application status
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 27, 2020, 03:10:20 PM
Where do you see that?

log in to Chase on a desktop
You should see it on the right
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 27, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Where do you see that?
.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 27, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
 On Chase When I check status it says waiting for SBA Approval, does that mean that they submitted my app to SBA? I don't see their STAGES anymore.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 27, 2020, 07:58:36 PM
On Chase When I check status it says waiting for SBA Approval, does that mean that they submitted my app to SBA? I don't see their STAGES anymore.
Yes
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 27, 2020, 08:05:18 PM
On Chase When I check status it says waiting for SBA Approval, does that mean that they submitted my app to SBA? I don't see their STAGES anymore.

I'm not sure that means it was submitted. It means it's ready to get submitted



This I got from PayPal

Thank you for submitting your application for the Paycheck Protection Program loan through PayPal.

Additional program funding allocated by the US Government for the Paycheck Protection Program became available on Monday, April 27. However, the SBA is limiting the number of applications that each provider can process through the SBA to only a few hundred per hour.

Your application is complete and is in line to be processed through the SBA as soon as we are able. Given the SBA application processing volume controls, we anticipate that it will take several days for us to process completed applications through the SBA and to receive the required SBA loan numbers in order to proceed with funding.

We will communicate updates through email. Our contact centers do not have access to the status of your loan, so they will be unable to provide any updates if you call.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 27, 2020, 08:05:24 PM
Thank you for submitting your application for the Paycheck Protection Program loan through PayPal.

Additional program funding allocated by the US Government for the Paycheck Protection Program became available on Monday, April 27. However, the SBA is limiting the number of applications that each provider can process through the SBA to only a few hundred per hour.

Your application is complete and is in line to be processed through the SBA as soon as we are able. Given the SBA application processing volume controls, we anticipate that it will take several days for us to process completed applications through the SBA and to receive the required SBA loan numbers in order to proceed with funding.

We will communicate updates through email. Our contact centers do not have access to the status of your loan, so they will be unable to provide any updates if you call.

Sincerely,

The PayPal Paycheck Protection Program Loan Team

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on April 27, 2020, 08:15:43 PM
Quote from: Roth & Co
On Friday, April 24th, President Trump signed a new bill providing a much-needed, additional $310 billion into the lending programs designed by the CARES act. Of the $310 billion, $60 billion is to replenish the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program, and $250 billion for the Paycheck Protection Program loans, with $60 billion set aside for community banks and community development financial institutions (CDFIs). While the initial round of funding under the CARES Act of $349 billion lasted for about a week before it dried up, this round is projected to last for just four to six days. Here’s what you need to know for a chance to receive these benefits:

PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM LOAN FORGIVENESS

We covered the Paycheck Protection Loan Program in detail in this article. Below is important additional information.

Hopefully, you have either made it through the mad-dash for the funds and had your loan approved or will get funded in this next round. With that in mind, here are our recommendations, based on currently known information, that gives you best the chance for maximum PPP loan forgiveness.

KEEP CLEAR RECORDS
We recommend using a separate bank account for the PPP funds to create an easy accounting trail. Maintain documents verifying the number of full-time equivalent employees on payroll as well as their salaries/wages for the period during which the loan was used to pay them. This could include payroll reports from a payroll provider, payroll tax filings, income/payroll/unemployment insurance filings from your state and paperwork that verifies retirement and health insurance contributions. In addition, have documents available that show payments of mortgage interest, rent and utilities.

MAKE NOTE OF THE TIMELINE
Funds must be spent within 8 weeks of receiving them. At the end of this 8-week period, you can apply for forgiveness through your bank.

ALLOCATE THE FUNDS CORRECTLY
At least 75% of the funds need to be used for payroll costs, with the maximum annual salary of $100k per employee. Forgiveness appears to be calculated on a cash-basis, which means accrued payroll due after the 8-week period will not qualify. This does not include the employer’s share of social security taxes. The IRS has agreed to defer the 6.2% employer share owed as of March 27, 2020, though the date on which the lender issues a decision on loan forgiveness.
The remaining 25% of the funds can be used for rent, mortgage interest (but not prepayments or payments towards the principal), utilities, continuation of healthcare benefits for those on leave, and interest payments on any debt obligation incurred before February 15th, 2020.

LOAN FORGIVENESS REDUCTION
To maintain 100% forgiveness, you will need to either keep your payroll as it was before February 15th, 2020 or during the same period in 2019, or hire back all laid-off employees, and undo wage reductions by the end of the PPP "covered period" on June 30th. The total amount forgiven will be reduced in proportion to the reduction in head-count, or wages decreased by more than 25%.

ECONOMIC INJURY DISASTER LOAN PROGRAM
The SBA will directly provide loans up to $2 million to small businesses and non-profits that have been severely impacted by COVID-19. An additional $60B has been made available in this last round. This is a good option for businesses with high non-payroll expenses. Here is how it works:

Interest rates are 2.75% for nonprofits and 3.75% for businesses, with a maximum term of 30 years.
Loans over $200,000 must be guaranteed by an owner with at least 20% interest in the company. We expect this requirement to be waived for schools.
Eligible businesses can request an advanced grant up to $10,000, calculated at $1,000 per employee. This grant does not need to be paid back, even if your organization is denied the EIDL loan. Note that if you get an EIDL advance, and later apply for a PPP loan, the EIDL will be subtracted from the amount that gets forgiven.
You can apply for this loan directly from SBA.gov

Note: At this moment the SBA is not accepting new applications and are only processing applications that were already submitted.

MAIN STREET LENDING PROGRAM
The Main Street Lending Program, an additional program created by the Federal Reserve, is a great alternative to the SBA programs which are running low in funds. This $600B program is designed to help banks give money more freely to businesses in need of a loan by purchasing a large portion of the loan from the bank, freeing the banks of most of the risk. The Federal Reserve will buy up to 95% of the loan from the bank, leaving just 5% with the bank that originated the loan. Here is how it works:

The program is available to all businesses with fewer than 10,000 employees or with revenues of less than $2.5 billion.
The term of these loans is four years, and loan amounts generally range between $1 million and $25 million. The loan amount is calculated as 4x earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization (EBITDA) less any debt. The minimum loan amount in $1 million.
Interest rates on these loans will be anywhere from 2.5% to 4%, with a repayment term of four years.
These loans cannot be used to pay off any other existing debt.
Once you have a loan, there are several requirements you must meet. First, all efforts must be made to maintain payroll and retain workers through the pandemic and economic crisis. Second, you must meet all compensation, stock repurchase and dividend restrictions that apply to direct loans under the CARES Act. Finally, there are several salary restrictions for employees or officers making more than $425,000.
This loan is available through your bank or local lender, and you are still eligible if you have made use of other SBA loans, such as the PPP.

We will continue to keep you informed as information becomes available. Please don’t hesitate to contact us with questions or concerns.

This material has been prepared for informational purposes only, and is not intended to provide, and should not be relied on for, legal or tax advice. If you have any specific legal or tax questions regarding this content or related issues, then you should consult with your professional legal or tax advisor.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 27, 2020, 09:10:26 PM
In order to ensure an orderly processing of applications from banks across the country, the SBA has “throttled” submissions for all banks (regardless of size) to a maximum of 350 applications per hour per bank. Because all banks are experiencing the same issue, we expect that funds will remain available for multiple days of submissions
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 27, 2020, 09:10:48 PM
In order to ensure an orderly processing of applications from banks across the country, the SBA has “throttled” submissions for all banks (regardless of size) to a maximum of 350 applications per hour per bank. Because all banks are experiencing the same issue, we expect that funds will remain available for multiple days of submissions
Form a bank to its customers
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 27, 2020, 09:43:00 PM
On Chase When I check status it says waiting for SBA Approval, does that mean that they submitted my app to SBA? I don't see their STAGES anymore.

No. Right after that it says "We ... are ready to send your application to the SBA"
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 27, 2020, 09:43:28 PM
My status with Chase is submitted to SBA.

When did you apply?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 27, 2020, 10:03:22 PM
In order to ensure an orderly processing of applications from banks across the country, the SBA has “throttled” submissions for all banks (regardless of size) to a maximum of 350 applications per hour per bank. Because all banks are experiencing the same issue, we expect that funds will remain available for multiple days of submissions

This essentially means that people applying now with Chase won’t get anything. Chase can only process 8,400 applications a day, and they probably have a backlog of a gazillion to put through.

My guess is it’s a waste of time to apply now unless it’s with a small bank that can push it through quickly. Anyone know of any such banks accepting applications from non-customers? I want to hedge my bets.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 27, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
When did you apply?
Tuesday
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on April 27, 2020, 10:29:24 PM
.
got any help from your CPC banker ?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 27, 2020, 10:32:07 PM
Tuesday

Interesting. I applied before Pesach, and it still says "Awaiting SBA approval"
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 27, 2020, 10:35:21 PM
got any help from your CPC banker ?

I doubt they could do much unless Chase has an existing process for this. Chase is too big and CPC is too common for the bankers to have any real pull for stuff like this, unless they have a process or someone to talk to.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 27, 2020, 10:48:49 PM
got any help from your CPC banker ?
My banker told me that they expressly disallowed bankers working on their own client's applications.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 27, 2020, 10:52:17 PM
If you applied to Kabbage for PPP and had a "Not Eligible" determination this morning, check again.
They've updated thousands of applications to "Under Review" or "Submitted to SBA".

Ridiculous. Was so disappointed this morning after spending hours on an non-profits application, and now heard via the grapevine to check again and viola! Submitted to SBA!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 27, 2020, 11:13:11 PM
If you applied to Kabbage for PPP and had a "Not Eligible" determination this morning, check again.
They've updated thousands of applications to "Under Review" or "Submitted to SBA".

Ridiculous. Was so disappointed this morning after spending hours on an non-profits application, and now heard via the grapevine to check again and viola! Submitted to SBA!
how long until kabbage response from SBA?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Rivky on April 27, 2020, 11:53:03 PM
Any thoughts on when EIDL round 2 goes live?

And are we limited to one EIDL per SSN? What if I have a few entities?

Also wondering...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 12:01:45 AM
If you applied to Kabbage for PPP and had a "Not Eligible" determination this morning, check again.
They've updated thousands of applications to "Under Review" or "Submitted to SBA".

Ridiculous. Was so disappointed this morning after spending hours on an non-profits application, and now heard via the grapevine to check again and viola! Submitted to SBA!
submitted when?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 28, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
submitted when?
Friday.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 08:42:47 AM
Banker tole me that SBA site is constantly crashing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 08:49:33 AM
Banker tole me that SBA site is constantly crashing.

The big banks are submitting via a site? I’d think it would be via API or something.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 28, 2020, 08:55:44 AM
In order to ensure an orderly processing of applications from banks across the country, the SBA has “throttled” submissions for all banks (regardless of size) to a maximum of 350 applications per hour per bank. Because all banks are experiencing the same issue, we expect that funds will remain available for multiple days of submissions

Once again it seems like small local banks are the way to go.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Joe4007 on April 28, 2020, 08:58:16 AM
In order to ensure an orderly processing of applications from banks across the country, the SBA has “throttled” submissions for all banks (regardless of size) to a maximum of 350 applications per hour per bank. Because all banks are experiencing the same issue, we expect that funds will remain available for multiple days of submissions
Source?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 09:02:32 AM
Once again it seems like small local banks are the way to go.

I said this upthread. Any recommendations?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 28, 2020, 09:05:41 AM
I said this upthread. Any recommendations?

Nope, I applied with Chase and Kabbage (CrossRiver).

Anyone here have any friends that work at a small bank that might be open to some more business?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on April 28, 2020, 09:06:29 AM
Once again it seems like small local banks are the way to go.
I heard that this time around the small banks had to enter everything manually (big banks are pre filled)it took over an hour for each application to process.
Plus they had other issues like major crashing because the big banks were uploading heavy files which the website wasn't able to handle
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
I heard that this time around the small banks had to enter everything manually (big banks are pre filled)it took over an hour for each application to process.
Plus they had other issues like major crashing because the big banks were uploading heavy files which the website wasn't able to handle

The sweet spot would be to find the most underutilized bank that’s uploading in batches.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 09:26:33 AM
http://www.Dime.com/ppp
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 10:08:52 AM
http://www.Dime.com/ppp
they accepting applications?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 10:09:30 AM
Bh my EIDL came in today.

Don't give up guys. Applied 4/2.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on April 28, 2020, 10:19:12 AM
My status with Chase is submitted to SBA.

Mine are

Quote
Application Status
Paycheck Protection Program loan
Status: Awaiting SBA approval
We completed our review of the documents you provided demonstrating your payroll amounts and are ready to send your application to the SBA if funding is available for the program.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 28, 2020, 10:25:00 AM
@cgr after doing some research it seems that there are 2 different k1s. 1120 and 1065. In short, 1065 which does pay se tax is eligible, and 1120 which does not pay all the se taxes (this is the whole idea of S Corp) is considered an investment and can not be included.

See this link: https://www.wendroffcpa.com/how-the-paycheck-protection-program-affects-self-employed-people/

If you are an SCorp owner, 1065 partnership owner, sole proprietor, independent contractor or gig worker, you qualify for a PPP loan:
1120S/S Corporation owners without employees other than themselves and who pay themselves salary and take a distribution.

Note that 1120S is eligible, but only if they take a salary.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 28, 2020, 10:39:13 AM
Mine are

Chase does not have a "submitted to SBA" status, so I think aygart is confused here.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 10:54:20 AM
http://www.Dime.com/ppp

Shkoyach! Applied and got a (Dime) Loan Number below 2,000, sounds promising. I wonder how many loan officers they have handing PPPs. Was advised that a loan officer would be in touch.

they accepting applications?

Very much so. More complicated application that Kabbage (at least for independent contractor), but the Sage platform they're using was smooth.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 28, 2020, 11:06:28 AM
Chase does not have a "submitted to SBA" status, so I think aygart is confused here.
Correct. My status is the same. Ready to submit.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 28, 2020, 11:07:24 AM
Shkoyach! Applied and got a (Dime) Loan Number below 2,000, sounds promising. I wonder how many loan officers they have handing PPPs. Was advised that a loan officer would be in touch.

Very much so. More complicated application that Kabbage (at least for independent contractor), but the Sage platform they're using was smooth.
Which docs do they request?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 11:13:28 AM
Shkoyach! Applied and got a (Dime) Loan Number below 2,000, sounds promising. I wonder how many loan officers they have handing PPPs. Was advised that a loan officer would be in touch.

Very much so. More complicated application that Kabbage (at least for independent contractor), but the Sage platform they're using was smooth.
Just got an SBA approval number from Dime. My application # was in the 1400's
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 11:17:41 AM
Just got an SBA approval number from Dime. My application # was in the 1400's
But still need to move thru their underwriting process
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 11:28:32 AM
Anyone applied thru Paypal and had any specific update from them except the general email that was post up-thread?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 11:42:42 AM
Just got an SBA approval number from Dime. My application # was in the 1400's

Nice, when did you apply? I'm in high 1700s.


But still need to move thru their underwriting process

Hopefully that isn't a hassle. Also hopefully an SBA number means there's funding set aside for you, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 11:43:45 AM
I also applied through Celtic (they're using a platform called BlueVine), wasn't too bad.

Hoping my bet hedging won't bite me in the @$$.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 11:44:52 AM
Nice, when did you apply? I'm in high 1700s.

Motzei Shabbes


Hopefully that isn't a hassle. Also hopefully an SBA number means there's funding set aside for you, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 28, 2020, 12:01:45 PM
Dime is requesting payroll Docs but im Schedule C so i dont have any. 

anyone had success as self employed individual?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 12:03:06 PM
Dime is requesting payroll Docs but im Schedule C so i dont have any. 

anyone had success as self employed individual?

In the notes on the docs page they seem to offer alternative documents, that’s what I went with.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 12:03:28 PM
I also applied through Celtic (they're using a platform called BlueVine), wasn't too bad.

Hoping my bet hedging won't bite me in the @$$.
Just applied through Dime. Thanks. Low 1800s. Totally did it wrong with Capital One. Hope this doesnt bit me in the @$$ either.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 12:04:20 PM
In the notes on the docs page they seem to offer alternative documents, that’s what I went with.
I just submitted my partnership return for all the 940/941 and NYS 45s
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 28, 2020, 12:18:26 PM
Shkoyach! Applied and got a (Dime) Loan Number below 2,000, sounds promising. I wonder how many loan officers they have handing PPPs. Was advised that a loan officer would be in touch.

Very much so. More complicated application that Kabbage (at least for independent contractor), but the Sage platform they're using was smooth.
+1

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 12:25:01 PM
Just applied through Dime. Thanks. Low 1800s. Totally did it wrong with Capital One. Hope this doesnt bit me in the @$$ either.

I just submitted my partnership return for all the 940/941 and NYS 45s

Good luck!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: metsgiantsfan on April 28, 2020, 01:57:42 PM
2 friends of mine who applied for EIDL on 4/4 received funds in their accounts today. One got $8,000 (he has 8 employees) the other one is self employeed and got $1000.   I applied the same day, self employeed with 0 employees and nothing so far.  Anyone else apply on 4/4 and nothing yet?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 28, 2020, 02:11:27 PM
2 friends of mine who applied for EIDL on 4/4 received funds in their accounts today. One got $8,000 (he has 8 employees) the other one is self employeed and got $1000.   I applied the same day, self employeed with 0 employees and nothing so far.  Anyone else apply on 4/4 and nothing yet?
applied the first day possible.  still nothing   same filing status as you
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 02:15:07 PM

Form 940 FY `19
 
Form 941 FY `19

NYS 45 1Q19
 
NYS 45 2Q19
 
NYS 45 3Q19
 
NYS 45 4Q19

This is from Dime. I guess were i bolded is a mistake and should be FY20?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 28, 2020, 02:17:22 PM
Form 940 FY `19
 
Form 941 FY `19

NYS 45 1Q19
 
NYS 45 2Q19
 
NYS 45 3Q19
 
NYS 45 4Q19

This is from Dime. I guess were i bolded is a mistake and should be FY20?

No, it's 941
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 28, 2020, 02:21:48 PM
BH PPP approved though First Commerce Bank in LW for a local non-profit.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 02:25:23 PM
No, it's 941
Ah I see, why don't they give the option to add q1 of 2020?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 28, 2020, 02:28:39 PM
BH PPP approved though First Commerce Bank in LW for a local non-profit.
Bh! They're not accepting any more applications.
Anyone know of any smaller banks accepting applications for non-profits without existing lending relationship?
Already have PayPal, Kabbage, and the large banks on my list. Trying to help others.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 04:05:05 PM
Dime might be the best bet now.

I emailed them about a question I had.

About an hour later I get a phone call from someone working here in Queens (not in India...) she took all my questions, "gave me her cellphone" and told me to text her any questions I have and that she will make sure I am taken care of.

Now that us customer service.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 04:25:32 PM
Capital One just emailed me that they need more information and I need to update my contact information. They have an option on their website to bock automated calls and I always had that as my default. They made me uncheck that option now. Guess they couldnt reach me otherwise.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 04:44:59 PM
Was this everyones experience? Dime is making you sign everything upon completion of the app. Cross River, Chase and others seems to only make you sign after approval.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 04:52:43 PM
Was this everyones experience? Dime is making you sign everything upon completion of the app. Cross River, Chase and others seems to only make you sign after approval.
Yes
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 28, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Was this everyones experience? Dime is making you sign everything upon completion of the app. Cross River, Chase and others seems to only make you sign after approval.

Cross River at least asked for some docs

Chase asked for almost nothing
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 05:18:25 PM
Dime might be the best bet now.

I emailed them about a question I had.

About an hour later I get a phone call from someone working here in Queens (not in India...) she took all my questions, "gave me her cellphone" and told me to text her any questions I have and that she will make sure I am taken care of.

Now that us customer service.

Nice. I filled out the form out their website requesting a callback, did not get one.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 05:22:05 PM
Just got an SBA approval number from Dime. My application # was in the 1400's

I’m pretty sure a loan number from SBA means there are funds set aside for you. Per the rules your bank has to fund you within 10 days.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 28, 2020, 07:20:22 PM
Applied to Chase first round. Heard nothing from them for 2 weeks and got the sorry we ran out of money email after pesach. Still says my status is in stage 2

I then applied through PayPal, Kabbage and Lendistry. Until now it said that they were reviewing my documents.

Checked my dashboard on Kabbage this morning and saw "Congratulations Shua qualified for a PPP loan." In a box right underneath it states "We'll email you as soon as your loan documents are available, or you can check back here for updates. Once they're signed, we can deposit your funds into your bank account youve connected."

I am so paranoid that I might lose out on this round that I am not sure what this means. Does it mean that the PPP was approved by the SBA? Or that it was just sent to the SBA?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 07:25:49 PM
Is there something about the number of hours employees must work? My neighbors hours were cut to 20/wk along with others. He now is giving them all 35 hours with not enough work for them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 28, 2020, 07:35:24 PM
Is there something about the number of hours employees must work? My neighbors hours were cut to 20/wk along with others. He now is giving them all 35 hours with not enough work for them.

From the SBA -
Quote
You will also owe money if you do not maintain your staff and payroll.
 Number of Staff: Your loan forgiveness will be reduced if you decrease your full-time
employee headcount.
 Level of Payroll: Your loan forgiveness will also be reduced if you decrease salaries and
wages by more than 25% for any employee that made less than $100,000 annualized in
2019.
 Re-Hiring: You have until June 30, 2020 to restore your full-time employment and
salary levels for any changes made between February 15, 2020 and April 26, 2020.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mers1 on April 28, 2020, 07:46:01 PM
Chase now has a Covid-19 update, PPP application status update in your chase business account.
I'm holding at stage 3, same as two weeks ago. Did anyone get a notification that there loan was funded in this new notification center?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 08:14:58 PM
WHATEVER THIS MEANS
Thank you for submitting your application for the Paycheck Protection Program loan through PayPal. We understand the challenges your business is facing and are working as hard as we can to help secure your funding.

Your PPP loan application is complete and will be processed through the SBA as soon as we are able. 

The additional funding Congress allocated to the Paycheck Protection Program became available on Monday, April 27. Since then, we have processed applications through the SBA as quickly as we are permitted. Due to the unprecedented demand, the SBA processing is taking longer than anticipated. We expect that it will take several more days for us to process completed applications through the SBA and to receive the required SBA loan number necessary for funding. For funding to occur, the SBA must accept your application and program funds must remain available. 

We are doing everything we can to help complete the processing of your application through the SBA. We will continue to communicate updates through email. Our contact centers do not have access to the status of your loan, and they will be unable to provide any updates if you call.

Thank you for your patience. 


Sincerely,

The PayPal Business Financing Solutions Team
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: CountValentine on April 28, 2020, 08:16:04 PM
From the SBA -
That explains it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 08:20:12 PM
Nice. I filled out the form out their website requesting a callback, did not get one.
Did you get your original email from gallagher? Reply to his email for help you should hear back from them.

I’m pretty sure a loan number from SBA means there are funds set aside for you. Per the rules your bank has to fund you within 10 days.
They told me, the way it works is they submit for the sba to get a loan number, (she called it a LBL or LPL, did not get it exactly) then it goes to their underwriting team and they finally approve it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 28, 2020, 08:45:47 PM
Cross River at least asked for some docs

Chase asked for almost nothing

When the bank KNOWS you there is little they need about YOU
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 28, 2020, 08:54:51 PM
See this link: https://www.wendroffcpa.com/how-the-paycheck-protection-program-affects-self-employed-people/

If you are an SCorp owner, 1065 partnership owner, sole proprietor, independent contractor or gig worker, you qualify for a PPP loan:
1120S/S Corporation owners without employees other than themselves and who pay themselves salary and take a distribution.

Note that 1120S is eligible, but only if they take a salary.
Seems you can only get PPP or unemployment for self employed. Anyone know how much one will get on either one based in NJ on a 1065 (K-1)?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 28, 2020, 08:58:37 PM
Seems you can only get PPP or unemployment for self employed. Anyone know how much one will get on either one based in NJ on a 1065 (K-1)?
Why not go for unemployment for the weeks before and after PPP? PPP is only for 8 weeks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 28, 2020, 08:58:41 PM
Chase now has a Covid-19 update, PPP application status update in your chase business account.
I'm holding at stage 3, same as two weeks ago. Did anyone get a notification that there loan was funded in this new notification center?
What is stage 2 and stage 3? Where does the Chase website identify it as that?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 28, 2020, 09:01:03 PM
Anyone know how much one will get on either one based in NJ on a 1065 (K-1)?
Check box 14. If that's for the whole of 2019, divide by 12 and multiply by 2.5X to get your PPP.

For unemployment: use the same box 14 to calculate your average weekly wage and see https://myunemployment.nj.gov/before/about/calculator/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 28, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
Why not go for unemployment for the weeks before and after PPP? PPP is only for 8 weeks.
and how long is unemployment for?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: etech0 on April 28, 2020, 09:10:07 PM
Why not go for unemployment for the weeks before and after PPP? PPP is only for 8 weeks.
Is 8 weeks going to be enough for most small businesses?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 28, 2020, 09:11:18 PM
and how long is unemployment for?
Usually 26, CARES Act added additional 13 weeks for a total of 39.

Additional $600/weekly is only available for claims between 3/28 through 7/31. Exact dates differ by a week up or down by state.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 28, 2020, 09:14:52 PM
What is stage 2 and stage 3? Where does the Chase website identify it as that?

From a email I got.

Dear Business Client,

We're following up on the status of your application for a Paycheck Protection Program loan. We know how important these funds would be to your business and we hope this update gives you some insight into the processes both here at Chase and the SBA.

We continue to monitor congressional actions for a possible new round of funding for the program. We also will keep processing as many applications as possible so we will be ready to submit them if new funding becomes available.
Here is the high-level overview of the review and approval process:

Here's the update on your application:
Current Status: Stage 2, Payroll review
Our process: We are working through our inquiry and application queue. We are now reviewing the documents you provided demonstrating your payroll amounts.

What you should expect: Our team is manually reviewing your payroll documentation. Once we complete our review, we'll be ready to send your application to the SBA for approval if additional funding becomes available for the program.

You don't have to do anything else now. If we have questions as we're reviewing your application, we'll email you. In the meantime, we'll keep updating chase.com/cares with the latest information.
Thank you for being a Chase customer.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 09:16:12 PM
Is 8 weeks going to be enough for most small businesses?

No, but that’s what was legislated one the cares act: A loan of 2.5x monthly payroll, with forgiveness requiring 75% of the loan to go towards (8weeks of?) payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 09:17:23 PM
My guess is many people with who applied with Chase after the initial $$ ran out won’t get their loan, unless something changes or more money is approved for PPP.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 28, 2020, 09:50:21 PM
When the bank KNOWS you there is little they need about YOU
I am talking about signing the  loan docs. With Dime you sign everything upon submitting the app.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mers1 on April 28, 2020, 10:18:59 PM
What is stage 2 and stage 3? Where does the Chase website identify it as that?
From my email from Chase:
Here's the update on your application:
Current Status: Stage 3, Awaiting SBA approval
What you should expect: We completed our review of the documents you provided demonstrating your payroll amounts and are ready to send your application to the SBA if additional funding becomes available for the program.
From April 19th
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: 12HRS on April 28, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
applied the first day possible.  still nothing   same filing status as you

same. i just got a CP today so i expect the $1k to hit at some point shortly
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 28, 2020, 10:58:11 PM
2 friends of mine who applied for EIDL on 4/4 received funds in their accounts today. One got $8,000 (he has 8 employees) the other one is self employeed and got $1000.   I applied the same day, self employeed with 0 employees and nothing so far.  Anyone else apply on 4/4 and nothing yet?

Applied for EIDL on 4/1. Heard nothing. Credit check on 4/22. Advance in bank on 4/23. No email. Just woke up and it was there.

What were the first 5 digits of your application number? I heard they are rolling it out first come first serve. Mine was 33011XXXXX. How much higher are you?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on April 28, 2020, 11:02:34 PM
same. i just got a CP today so i expect the $1k to hit at some point shortly
When did you apply?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 28, 2020, 11:02:42 PM
To all those who applied with Dime, who did you put as a reference? They have a very thorough application
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: nucheiner on April 28, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
RE: PPP, Can anyone confirm confidently that payroll for Part-Time employees is forgivable? Getting mixed answers, with one site advising that this will be up to SBA determination.
(In regards to the 500 employee count it is clear that PT is included)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 28, 2020, 11:14:32 PM
To all those who applied with Dime, who did you put as a reference? They have a very thorough application

Reference? All the way at the end they allow you to optionally add someone (an authorized contact) to discuss your application with, an agent, relative, accountant etc. I just put my own info there, maybe I was rushing and didn't do it right.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 28, 2020, 11:16:31 PM
Reference? All the way at the end they allow you to optionally add someone to discuss your application with, an agent, relative, accountant etc. I just put my own info there, maybe I was rushing and didn't do it right.
Did exactly the same. Didnt see any request for reference.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 28, 2020, 11:22:08 PM
Did exactly the same. Didnt see any request for reference.
Reference? All the way at the end they allow you to optionally add someone (an authorized contact) to discuss your application with, an agent, relative, accountant etc. I just put my own info there, maybe I was rushing and didn't do it right.

I thought it was optional also but when I skipped it it didn’t let me go to the next page. Maybe I’ll look at it again. That threw me off a bit
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 11:28:19 PM
Reference? All the way at the end they allow you to optionally add someone (an authorized contact) to discuss your application with, an agent, relative, accountant etc. I just put my own info there, maybe I was rushing and didn't do it right.
you can leave it empty
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 28, 2020, 11:30:03 PM
same. i just got a CP today so i expect the $1k to hit at some point shortly
Just had my CP.  Lets pray for a good night ;D
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 28, 2020, 11:31:42 PM
I thought it was optional also but when I skipped it it didn’t let me go to the next page. Maybe I’ll look at it again. That threw me off a bit
you probably missed something in the other sections.
Check on top, there is 6 sections, Business info, personal info, etc; each section needs to have a blue line till the end which means all required info where filled in. By the first section you need to fill out Beneficial ownership even if there is only 1 owner.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: 12HRS on April 28, 2020, 11:33:18 PM
When did you apply?

the first day it was open
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 12:01:00 AM
you can leave it empty

I wrote optionally in the post you quoted.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 12:06:33 AM
From a email I got.

Dear Business Client,

We're following up on the status of your application for a Paycheck Protection Program loan. We know how important these funds would be to your business and we hope this update gives you some insight into the processes both here at Chase and the SBA.

We continue to monitor congressional actions for a possible new round of funding for the program. We also will keep processing as many applications as possible so we will be ready to submit them if new funding becomes available.
Here is the high-level overview of the review and approval process:

Here's the update on your application:
Current Status: Stage 2, Payroll review
Our process: We are working through our inquiry and application queue. We are now reviewing the documents you provided demonstrating your payroll amounts.

What you should expect: Our team is manually reviewing your payroll documentation. Once we complete our review, we'll be ready to send your application to the SBA for approval if additional funding becomes available for the program.

You don't have to do anything else now. If we have questions as we're reviewing your application, we'll email you. In the meantime, we'll keep updating chase.com/cares with the latest information.
Thank you for being a Chase customer.

Interesting. The email I recieved made no mention of stages.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 29, 2020, 12:22:35 AM
Applied for EIDL on 4/1. Heard nothing. Credit check on 4/22. Advance in bank on 4/23. No email. Just woke up and it was there.

What were the first 5 digits of your application number? I heard they are rolling it out first come first serve. Mine was 33011XXXXX. How much higher are you?
32470
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 12:27:19 AM
Applied for EIDL on 4/1. Heard nothing. Credit check on 4/22. Advance in bank on 4/23. No email. Just woke up and it was there.

What were the first 5 digits of your application number? I heard they are rolling it out first come first serve. Mine was 33011XXXXX. How much higher are you?
33014
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 29, 2020, 12:40:21 AM
Applied for EIDL on 4/1. Heard nothing. Credit check on 4/22. Advance in bank on 4/23. No email. Just woke up and it was there.

What were the first 5 digits of your application number? I heard they are rolling it out first come first serve. Mine was 33011XXXXX. How much higher are you?
33019 just had credit pull
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 29, 2020, 01:28:00 AM
Are you guys getting hard pull for EIDL? Which agency?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 29, 2020, 01:32:00 AM
Are you guys getting hard pull for EIDL? Which agency?
From SBA
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on April 29, 2020, 02:06:39 AM
Does a PPP app need to be placed with a bank in your state? I'm in NJ - can I use Dime in NY? They are asking for documents (on that final page) that I don't have, but don't let me move on without submitting something.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 29, 2020, 07:37:31 AM
#TYH for the $1000 gift ;D
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/h0MTqLyvgG0Ss/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7d601a3974837632d0855f6ffbbbe83c93d8cfc89&rid=giphy.gif)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 07:44:31 AM
#TYH for the $1000 gift ;D

Mazal tov!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 29, 2020, 10:49:42 AM
From SBA
Where are they pulling the report from? SBA is not a credit bureau, are they?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 11:17:10 AM
Where are they pulling the report from? SBA is not a credit bureau, are they?

I think he misunderstood your question and thought you were asking which government agency initiated the inquiry.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jack on April 29, 2020, 11:48:17 AM
I did not initially apply for the EIDL and have been watching it to see if they would open for new applications but so far nothing.  I did see on one of the news sites to fill out an application and it would be submitted as of yesterday they were opening for new apps.  Filled it out and got to the last page, a request to debit my account for a fee.  I emailed the company and this is what I got in response

We bill at an hourly rate of $300 with most small businesses taking 1-2 hours.  There is a $100 deposit required for us to start the review process of any application.  Our fee is not contingent on loan approval.  The document you sign with your bank information is for the application - not to be charged.  We will reach out in regards to billing.

 
Please let me know if you are interested, as I will assign an agent to you.

Anyone know if these guys have a way of submitting an application that isn't open to the public?

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 29, 2020, 11:50:47 AM
Where are they pulling the report from? SBA is not a credit bureau, are they?
oh sorry. i saw on experian
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: metsgiantsfan on April 29, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
Applied for EIDL on 4/1. Heard nothing. Credit check on 4/22. Advance in bank on 4/23. No email. Just woke up and it was there.

What were the first 5 digits of your application number? I heard they are rolling it out first come first serve. Mine was 33011XXXXX. How much higher are you?

MY Application number 33016XXXXXX  still nothing
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 12:14:24 PM
I did not initially apply for the EIDL and have been watching it to see if they would open for new applications but so far nothing.  I did see on one of the news sites to fill out an application and it would be submitted as of yesterday they were opening for new apps.  Filled it out and got to the last page, a request to debit my account for a fee.  I emailed the company and this is what I got in response

We bill at an hourly rate of $300 with most small businesses taking 1-2 hours.  There is a $100 deposit required for us to start the review process of any application.  Our fee is not contingent on loan approval.  The document you sign with your bank information is for the application - not to be charged.  We will reach out in regards to billing.

 
Please let me know if you are interested, as I will assign an agent to you.

Anyone know if these guys have a way of submitting an application that isn't open to the public?

Sounds like scammers to me
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 12:29:07 PM
I did not initially apply for the EIDL and have been watching it to see if they would open for new applications but so far nothing.  I did see on one of the news sites to fill out an application and it would be submitted as of yesterday they were opening for new apps.  Filled it out and got to the last page, a request to debit my account for a fee.  I emailed the company and this is what I got in response

We bill at an hourly rate of $300 with most small businesses taking 1-2 hours.  There is a $100 deposit required for us to start the review process of any application.  Our fee is not contingent on loan approval.  The document you sign with your bank information is for the application - not to be charged.  We will reach out in regards to billing.

 
Please let me know if you are interested, as I will assign an agent to you.

Anyone know if these guys have a way of submitting an application that isn't open to the public?



THis is where you would apply for the advance. No other site is needed or even helpful. They are not currently accepting applications.

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/economic-injury-disaster-loan-emergency-advance
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 29, 2020, 01:06:19 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/business/bank-of-america-ppp-sba/index.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on April 29, 2020, 01:56:03 PM
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
WEBANK PROCESSES THE APPLICATIONS FOR PAYPAL

WebBank
Concentration:   Commercial Lending Specialization
FDIC Cert:   #34404
Charter Class:   Commercial bank, state charter and Fed nonmember, supervised by the FDIC
Website:   www.webbank.com
Total Assets:   $960,730,000, ranked #847
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 02:01:16 PM
Cross River Bank started in 2008 with its headquarters in Teaneck, New Jersey. It has $1 billion in assets and $1 billion in deposits, making it a medium-size bank.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 29, 2020, 02:16:37 PM
Should be a G-dsend for anyone with a relationship with a SMALL bank.

I wonder how Kabbage stacks up.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Should be a G-dsend for anyone with a relationship with a SMALL bank.

I wonder how Kabbage stacks up.
I think they are also thru cross river
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 29, 2020, 02:28:23 PM
Should be a G-dsend for anyone with a relationship with a SMALL bank.

I wonder how Kabbage stacks up.
Small banks have been the way to go since day 1. Percentage wise I am sure, the large banks have failed terribly. This makes no sense. Their are plenty of small business applying thru large banks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 29, 2020, 02:43:47 PM

Sigh. Already applied through Chase, Kabbage, PayPal and Bluevine.

I guess I will apply through Dime just in case?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 29, 2020, 03:05:46 PM
Sigh. Already applied through Chase, Kabbage, PayPal and Bluevine.

I guess I will apply through Dime just in case?
Aren't they well over 1bn as well?

Keep in mind, this is for today only

"There are approximately 3,862 commercial banks with assets of less than $1 billion, according to regulatory data as of 2019, although many credit unions and other small community lenders would also be small enough to use the new reserve window."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-banks-lending/big-u-s-banks-to-be-temporarily-locked-out-of-small-business-lending-program-sba-idUSKBN22B2UH
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 29, 2020, 03:14:02 PM
Aren't they well over 1bn as well?

Keep in mind, this is for today only

"There are approximately 3,862 commercial banks with assets of less than $1 billion, according to regulatory data as of 2019, although many credit unions and other small community lenders would also be small enough to use the new reserve window."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-banks-lending/big-u-s-banks-to-be-temporarily-locked-out-of-small-business-lending-program-sba-idUSKBN22B2UH

You're right. I did a quick Google search and apparently there is a Dime in PA  with 500 million in assets. The Dime community bank has over 6 billion
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 29, 2020, 04:49:25 PM
Just got a call from Capital One about missing forms. I file a 1065 and have no payroll employees. According to the rules you have to disclose line 14a Net Income from Self Employment as your annual payroll number. When I advised her of that and told her I dont have 940 or 941s or NYS form 45 she couldnt understand. I just told her to put it in the application notes and pass it on to the SBA. They will figure it out. Too much of a headache at this point for the size of loan I may get.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 05:06:01 PM
. I just told her to put it in the application notes and pass it on to the SBA. They will figure it out. Too much of a headache at this point for the size of loan I may get.

I think the SBA is relying on the bank's verification of payroll expenses, not doing the verification themselves.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: hvaces42 on April 29, 2020, 05:12:43 PM
I think the SBA is relying on the bank's verification of payroll expenses, not doing the verification themselves.
Its basic information. Dime got it right. Lets see if my application gets processed by them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 05:57:57 PM
FROM MY DIME BANKER

Unfortunately, SBA has paused applications until 12am. :-[
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 06:49:00 PM
FROM MY DIME BANKER

Unfortunately, SBA has paused applications until 12am. :-[

Only for large banks

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 29, 2020, 06:58:16 PM
Only for largebanks
And Dime is?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 07:01:51 PM
And Dime is?

Yup.

You're right. I did a quick Google search and apparently there is a Dime in PA  with 500 million in assets. The Dime community bank has over 6 billion
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 29, 2020, 08:24:35 PM
From Chase


I am pleased to let you know that we sent your PPP application to the SBA for processing. We’re working closely with the SBA as they’re receiving a tremendous response this week.

We don’t know timing yet, but we’ll email you as soon as the SBA notifies us of their decision on your loan.

I’m proud that our teams worked tirelessly to deliver more than 220,000 applications – including yours – to the SBA this week. And we’ll continue to process and submit additional applications until PPP funds are exhausted.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 08:47:33 PM
From Chase


I am pleased to let you know that we sent your PPP application to the SBA for processing. We’re working closely with the SBA as they’re receiving a tremendous response this week.

We don’t know timing yet, but we’ll email you as soon as the SBA notifies us of their decision on your loan.

I’m proud that our teams worked tirelessly to deliver more than 220,000 applications – including yours – to the SBA this week. And we’ll continue to process and submit additional applications until PPP funds are exhausted.
+1
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 29, 2020, 08:53:41 PM
From Chase


I am pleased to let you know that we sent your PPP application to the SBA for processing. We’re working closely with the SBA as they’re receiving a tremendous response this week.

We don’t know timing yet, but we’ll email you as soon as the SBA notifies us of their decision on your loan.

I’m proud that our teams worked tirelessly to deliver more than 220,000 applications – including yours – to the SBA this week. And we’ll continue to process and submit additional applications until PPP funds are exhausted.

Just got the exact same email from chase.

5 minutes later I got this from PayPal.

We hope that you and your family are healthy and safe.

Thank you for your continued patience. We understand that these are challenging times, and we are working as hard as we can to help secure your funding through the Paycheck Protection Program.

Since the additional funding for the Paycheck Protection Program became available on Monday, April 27, we have processed applications through the SBA as quickly as possible and in accordance with guidance from the SBA. Due to the unprecedented demand, SBA application processing is taking place at a pace slower than anticipated. We still expect that it may take several more days for us to process completed applications through the SBA and to receive the required SBA loan number necessary for funding. 

Your completed application was submitted to the SBA and we are awaiting their response.

For loan funding to occur, the SBA must accept your application and program funds must remain available. We will continue to communicate updates through email. Our contact centers do not have access to the status of your loan, and they will be unable to provide any updates if you call.

Thank you again for your patience. 

Sincerely,

The PayPal Business Financing Solutions Team



Let the Race begin!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on April 29, 2020, 09:43:49 PM
I told Kabbage to submit while confirming I wont apply somehwere else and now got the email from Chase....
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 10:01:02 PM
I told Kabbage to submit while confirming I wont apply somehwere else and now got the email from Chase....
Also received from PayPal.  I applied April 20, my friend applied April 22 we both received same email same timing
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 10:05:42 PM
From Chase


I am pleased to let you know that we sent your PPP application to the SBA for processing. We’re working closely with the SBA as they’re receiving a tremendous response this week.

We don’t know timing yet, but we’ll email you as soon as the SBA notifies us of their decision on your loan.

I’m proud that our teams worked tirelessly to deliver more than 220,000 applications – including yours – to the SBA this week. And we’ll continue to process and submit additional applications until PPP funds are exhausted.

If SBA is throttling applications for all banks to 350/hour per Bank, how could Chase get 220k in within a week? 350 applications x 24 hours x 7 days a week is only 58,800.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on April 29, 2020, 10:06:56 PM
If SBA is throttling applications for all banks to 350/hour per Bank, how could Chase get 220k in within a week? 350 applications x 24 hours x 7 days a week is only 58,800.
Probably including previous round
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 29, 2020, 10:07:57 PM
Anyone know if this money must be used for payroll and self employment does not have  payroll then is this loan not forgivable?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 10:08:33 PM
Anyone know if this money must be used for payroll and self employment does not have  payroll then is this loan not forgivable?
If you get approved because you have SE wages, you can take an SE draw now from this money.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 10:08:46 PM
Probably including previous round

They got in applications from the previous round in the past week?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 10:10:44 PM
If you get approved because you have SE wages, you can take an SE draw now from this money.

Sorry, I don’t follow what you wrote.

I don’t think the SBA has published any guidelines for how an unincorporated independent contractor can prove he paid himself to get the loan forgiven. I’m in that situation but I’m applying because I’m confident they’ll figure it out and my loan will get forgiven.

The purpose of PPP is to get funds into employers’s so businesses could continue to pay their employees and thus stay operational. Forgiveness will require the businesses to prove they passed the funds on in the form of payroll and didn’t just pocket the money and lay everyone off or furlough them.

 An independent contractor is both the borrower on the loan and the intended recipient, so there isn’t really anything that has to be proven.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 10:10:59 PM
I told Kabbage to submit while confirming I wont apply somehwere else and now got the email from Chase....

Got this from someone who's helping many with PPP:
One guy reported that the SBA flagged the fact that two applications were in, and he got the choice of which to accept. Not sure if they will check with all, or if he got lucky.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on April 29, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
They got in applications from the previous round in the past week?
Either it's not true, or they were able to process more than 350 per hour, or they are including the previous round. or maybe its a typo :)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 10:17:04 PM
Either it's not true, or they were able to process more than 350 per hour, or they are including the previous round. or maybe its a typo :)

Those are all definitely possible. I’m wondering if someone else knows something you and I don’t and can shed more light on the situation. I did read somewhere (I think it might have been from SBA themselves) that SBA is allowing all banks to submit a one-time XML file with 15,000 applications, still wouldn’t get Chase to 220k. The 15k XML file might have been from the first round of funding.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 29, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Either it's not true, or they were able to process more than 350 per hour, or they are including the previous round. or maybe its a typo :)
There was a day where the big banks (BofA) were about to process batches is 15k applications at once, but the outcry from small lenders stopped it after a few hours.
Maybe they moved any of them then
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 10:20:09 PM
If SBA is throttling applications for all banks to 350/hour per Bank, how could Chase get 220k in within a week? 350 applications x 24 hours x 7 days a week is only 58,800.

My guess is that they "sent" and "delivered" them (in a batch), but that doesn't mean the SBA processed them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 29, 2020, 10:21:14 PM
Sorry, I don’t follow what you wrote.

I don’t think the SBA has published any guidelines for how an unincorporated independent contractor can prove he paid himself to get the loan forgiven. I’m in that situation but I’m applying because I’m confident they’ll figure it out and my loan will get forgiven.

The purpose of PPP is to get funds into employers’s so businesses could continue to pay their employees and thus stay operational. Forgiveness will require the businesses to prove they passed the funds on in the form of payroll and didn’t just pocket the money and lay everyone off or furlough them.

 An independent contractor is both the borrower on the loan and the intended recipient, so there isn’t really anything that has to be proven.
i understand that you can not be on unemployment and PPP. is that at the same time or can i be on one and then the other? assuming you can only be on one - which would be better?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on April 29, 2020, 10:23:42 PM
Those are all definitely possible. I’m wondering if someone else knows something you and I don’t and can shed more light on the situation. I did read somewhere (I think it might have been from SBA themselves) that SBA is allowing all banks to submit a one-time XML file with 15,000 applications, still wouldn’t get Chase to 220k. The 15k XML file might have been from the first round of funding.
iirc I heard on a podcast that by the start of the second round the big banks were still able to upload much faster then the smaller ones and they didn't have limits
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on April 29, 2020, 10:24:06 PM
Those are all definitely possible. I’m wondering if someone else knows something you and I don’t and can shed more light on the situation. I did read somewhere (I think it might have been from SBA themselves) that SBA is allowing all banks to submit a one-time XML file with 15,000 applications, still wouldn’t get Chase to 220k. The 15k XML file might have been from the first round of funding.

15k was the minimum amount of applications that could be submitted as a batch (they later lowered it to 5k).

There was a day where the big banks (BofA) were about to process batches is 15k applications at once, but the outcry from small lenders stopped it after a few hours.
Maybe they moved any of them then

From the beginning they said that option would only be available on the first day, and that they would still process each loan individually.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 10:29:16 PM
There is a lot of talk about how the big banks have been able to upload more than small banks. Isn't that the way it should be? Why should a bank with 2 branches be able to get all of theirs in while the banks with hundreds of branches get throttled so that these 2 should get their customers in while the customers of these hundreds of branches get pushed off?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 10:33:37 PM
i understand that you can not be on unemployment and PPP. is that at the same time or can i be on one and then the other? assuming you can only be on one - which would be better?
You can be on unemployment, then PPP for 8 weeks, then unemployment again.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 10:37:29 PM
There is a lot of talk about how the big banks have been able to upload more than small banks. Isn't that the way it should be? Why should a bank with 2 branches be able to get all of theirs in while the banks with hundreds of branches get throttled so that these 2 should get their customers in while the customers of these hundreds of branches get pushed off?
Welcome to the government!
Why is it that someone earning $1k a month(small bank with 2 branches), who was fired, receives now 3K UI, and someone who earns 2K a month ( medium bank with 10 branches) and was not fired only gets 2K a month???????????
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 29, 2020, 10:44:36 PM
You can be on unemployment, then PPP for 8 weeks, then unemployment again.
The ppp is meant- that one got their job back. if one gets their job back  for 8 weeks and then file for SE unemployment again and get the $600? i would guess not unless you know otherwise.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 11:01:36 PM
or partial unemployment together with PPP
Not really. You have to keep employees at 75% of previous wages during those 8 weeks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 11:01:51 PM
The ppp is meant- that one got their job back. if one gets their job back  for 8 weeks and then file for SE unemployment again and get the $600? i would guess not unless you know otherwise.
Nothing in the law to contradict that.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 29, 2020, 11:18:54 PM
3 days out of a 4 days week is 75%. and you are eligible for partial UI
For PPP it's about wages, not hours.
I hope 75% of their wages disqualifies them from unemployment.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 11:20:14 PM
i understand that you can not be on unemployment and PPP. is that at the same time or can i be on one and then the other? assuming you can only be on one - which would be better?

They seem to be mutually exclusive because UI/PUA you have to get less than $504 income to be eligible (thats for NY, other states probably have similar provisions that you can’t be employed/have income), and PPP requires you to pay yourself to get forgiveness.

I’ll go with what others have said, UI/PUA before PPP, 8 weeks of PPP, then back to UI/PUA.

Which is better would depend on how much you’d get from each, so might vary from person to person.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 29, 2020, 11:20:45 PM
For PPP it's about wages, not hours.
I hope 75% of their wages disqualifies them from unemployment.
:-\ :'(
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 29, 2020, 11:21:57 PM
For PPP it's about wages, not hours.

One of the banks I applied with (I think Dime) had info about PPP forgiveness, and there was a section there about maintaining full time equivalents or something, which would imply that hours could be a factor too.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 29, 2020, 11:25:45 PM
For PPP it's about wages, not hours.
I hope 75% of their wages disqualifies them from unemployment.
Not in NJ
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 29, 2020, 11:50:28 PM
They seem to be mutually exclusive because UI/PUA you have to get less than $504 income to be eligible (thats for NY, other states probably have similar provisions that you can’t be employed/have income), and PPP requires you to pay yourself to get forgiveness.

I’ll go with what others have said, UI/PUA before PPP, 8 weeks of PPP, then back to UI/PUA.

Which is better would depend on how much you’d get from each, so might vary from person to person.

I wonder if they UI will spike after June 30th for a month till the PUA stops.

Its actually interesting that there is a month difference between the end of PUA and the end of the PPP. I wonder why they didn't end them at the same time
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ckdkimhi on April 30, 2020, 06:10:02 AM
If you did not receive funds from this program and you have an employee on payroll (not 1099), apply fast! Feel free to contact me regarding individual scenarios. https://app.bluevine.com/signup/ppp?pid_login=0002910
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 30, 2020, 07:50:17 AM
If you did not receive funds from this program and you have an employee on payroll (not 1099), apply fast! Feel free to contact me regarding individual scenarios. https://app.bluevine.com/signup/ppp?pid_login=0002910

They’re not doing independent contractors? Why would they differentiate?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 30, 2020, 08:25:16 AM
They’re not doing independent contractors? Why would they differentiate?
What bank is giving loans to business that pay mostly 1099'ers?

Most banks are balking on that as they interpret the guidance to state that each 1099'ed person needs to apply on their own.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 08:46:50 AM
If you did not receive funds from this program and you have an employee on payroll (not 1099), apply fast! Feel free to contact me regarding individual scenarios. https://app.bluevine.com/signup/ppp?pid_login=0002910

Are you getting a commission on this?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 30, 2020, 08:54:03 AM
Are you getting a commission on this?
Aren't lenders getting a 5% fee for processing loans under $1mm?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 08:55:57 AM
SBA number from dime. Application in the 1600's
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 08:57:42 AM
SBA number from dime. Application in the 1600's

Mazal Tov! Did you have to check it online or did they email you?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 08:58:09 AM
Aren't lenders getting a 5% fee for processing loans under $1mm?

Agents are getting .25-1% for referring to banks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 30, 2020, 08:58:52 AM
Agents are getting .25-1% for referring to banks.
Who is bluevine's bank?
Also cross river?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
Mazal Tov! Did you have to check it online or did they email you?
Email your loan officer on status of application
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 09:02:21 AM
Who is bluevine's bank?
Also cross river?

Bluevine is a platform that is presumably processing for many banks, I applied with Celtic bank  using the BlueVine platform.

CrossRiver apps happen on Kabbage. My guess is that Kabbage is the same, a platform used by multiple banks, not just CrossRiver.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 09:02:55 AM
Email your loan officer on status of application

I don’t have a loan officer lol. Plz PM me an email address if you have one.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 09:04:53 AM
SBA number from dime. Application in the 1600's
Paypal emailed already yesterday that they submitted it, and Dime didnt submit it till after 12am, I still dont get it what all this submitting emails means........
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 09:08:12 AM
I have a feeling that the Dime peeps will be the first celebrating here. I applied with Chase, don't want to do double apps because you sign that you won't apply twice but leaving people in the dark with canned email responses and NO ONE to talk to is also not fair.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 09:17:09 AM
I have a feeling that the Dime peeps will be the first celebrating here. I applied with Chase, don't want to do double apps because you sign that you won't apply twice but leaving people in the dark with canned email responses and NO ONE to talk to is also not fair.

I think Kabbage specifically write that they’re not guaranteeing to process before funds run out and you can apply elsewhere.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 30, 2020, 09:28:32 AM
And its Kabbage by a nose!!! Just signed the SBA forms and have a loan number!!!

My Kabbage dashboard has been stuck for 3 days with the same thing. I saw on reddit that people were having luck DM them on Twitter @KabbageInc. I DM them last night. They replied "certainly" at 3AM and then a minute later replied "Please login back into your account and you should be able to process your loan docs. Thanks!" Checked this morning and my documents were there to sign.

So if you application is stuck with Kabbage try DMing them on Twitter
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 30, 2020, 09:32:44 AM
What bank is giving loans to business that pay mostly 1099'ers?

Most banks are balking on that as they interpret the guidance to state that each 1099'ed person needs to apply on their own.

My question was if a person is an independent contractor can he apply for himself. It wouldn’t make sense for a biz to apply to pay 1099 as you said
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 30, 2020, 09:33:37 AM
And its Kabbage by a nose!!! Just signed the SBA forms and have a loan number!!!

My Kabbage dashboard has been stuck for 3 days with the same thing. I saw on reddit that people were having luck DM them on Twitter @KabbageInc. I DM them last night. They replied "certainly" at 3AM and then a minute later replied "Please login back into your account and you should be able to process your loan docs. Thanks!" Checked this morning and my documents were there to sign.

So if you application is stuck with Kabbage try DMing them on Twitter

What did your kabbage dashboard say the past 3 days? Mine still says kabbage is reviewing my app.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 09:37:00 AM
What did your kabbage dashboard say the past 3 days? Mine still says kabbage is reviewing my app.

Mine said the same for days, but they did update it once with a question, asking if all owners of business are in the US.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on April 30, 2020, 09:38:29 AM
Mine said the same for days, but they did update it once with a question, asking if all owners of business are in the US.

Yea got that already. Called in yesterday & they were asking me for a 940 or 941 I told them I don’t file that
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
I know of somebody who was excited seeing on Kabbage congratulations your loan has been approved. But if you read the small print it clearly says that the loan is still being processed. So if you're at the step where they ask for your bank info, do NOT here excited yet, read that small words on the bottom.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 30, 2020, 09:47:37 AM
I know of somebody who was excited seeing on Kabbage congratulations your loan has been approved. But if you read the small print it clearly says that the loan is still being processed. So if you're at the step where they ask for your bank info, do NOT here excited yet, read that small words on the bottom.

That's what my loan said. Read the small print as well and realized it just meant was sent to SBA, no guarantee. That's why I DM them on Twitter.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Joe4007 on April 30, 2020, 09:51:26 AM
From Chase


I am pleased to let you know that we sent your PPP application to the SBA for processing. We’re working closely with the SBA as they’re receiving a tremendous response this week.

We don’t know timing yet, but we’ll email you as soon as the SBA notifies us of their decision on your loan.

I’m proud that our teams worked tirelessly to deliver more than 220,000 applications – including yours – to the SBA this week. And we’ll continue to process and submit additional applications until PPP funds are exhausted.
We got this as well. I hope it isn't just an attempt by Chase to get all their clients to back off a bit and stop bombarding their bankers.

I'm afraid what they really mean is that they hit the send button on all applications without regard to the fact that the SBA hasn't received all of them.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 30, 2020, 10:57:06 AM
Is it Kabbage's lucky day?
Just got "Congratulations! XXXXXXX qualified for a PPP loan of $XX,XXX.00"
This is after having "Your application has been submitted to the SBA" since Monday night.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 11:08:22 AM
Is it Kabbage's lucky day?
Just got "Congratulations! XXXXXXX qualified for a PPP loan of $XX,XXX.00"
This is after having "Your application has been submitted to the SBA" since Monday night.

Sorry to burst your bubble, read the small print with the asterisk. Had friend send me the screenshot with the same.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 30, 2020, 11:11:57 AM
I have a feeling that the Dime peeps will be the first celebrating here. I applied with Chase, don't want to do double apps because you sign that you won't apply twice but leaving people in the dark with canned email responses and NO ONE to talk to is also not fair.

Strongly advise you to apply with other banks. SBA seems to be throttling large banks to level the playing field (which as pointed above is ridiculous. A bank with thousands of branches shouldn't be on the same level as a bank with 2 branches but I digress). Chase said they submitted 200,000 apps. If they are being throttled to 350 an hour, you will probably get left in the dust
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 30, 2020, 11:12:12 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, read the small print with the asterisk. Had friend send me the screenshot with the same.
There is no asterisk or small print. That's the only thing on my page.
Maybe he hadn't submitted all his docs yet?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 11:30:49 AM
Got Dime SBA number in the morning, now when I login to Kabbage I see this...

Thank you for your application for a loan through the Paycheck Protection Program. Unfortunately, we were unable to approve your business’s application for the following reason(s):

Not Eligible
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 30, 2020, 11:32:44 AM
What does it mean getting an SBA loan number? Also it seems that besides signing the loan documents with the bank some here are saying that they are getting an SBA loan doc to sign? With Dina they give you a SBA form to sign but that's BEFORE getting any approval from the SBA
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 30, 2020, 11:33:28 AM
Got Dime SBA number in the morning, now when I login to Kabbage I see this...

Thank you for your application for a loan through the Paycheck Protection Program. Unfortunately, we were unable to approve your business’s application for the following reason(s):

Not Eligible
When you login to dime online is it updated with approval?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
When you login to dime online is it updated with approval?
No. Its still says in process because they still need underwriting approval
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 30, 2020, 11:40:15 AM
No. Its still says in process because they still need underwriting approval
Understand. But does it say that you got SBA approval? Does that mean that SBA has put away funds for you?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 11:40:23 AM
There is no asterisk or small print. That's the only thing on my page.
Maybe he hadn't submitted all his docs yet?

Does it ask you to sync your bank account with small deposits? That step does NOT mean approval.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 30, 2020, 11:41:38 AM
We got this as well. I hope it isn't just an attempt by Chase to get all their clients to back off a bit and stop bombarding their bankers.

I'm afraid what they really mean is that they hit the send button on all applications without regard to the fact that the SBA hasn't received all of them.

Interestingly, online my status shows this:

Paycheck Protection Program loan
Status: Awaiting SBA approval
We completed our review of the documents you provided demonstrating your payroll amounts and are ready to send your application to the SBA if funding is available for the program.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on April 30, 2020, 11:42:23 AM
What does it mean getting an SBA loan number? Also it seems that besides signing the loan documents with the bank some here are saying that they are getting an SBA loan doc to sign? With Dina they give you a SBA form to sign but that's BEFORE getting any approval from the SBA

Some banks (for me only paypal) had you sign the loan document beforehand. This is the borrowers application.

Kabbage had me sign that afterwards. There were 2 other documents attached to the borrowers application (which paypal and I am assuming Dime didnt have). Resolution to borrow and SBA note. These had my loan number on it and name of the lender (which isnt Kabbage btw)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2020, 11:50:27 AM
Funded in 36 hours!

https://www.dansdeals.com/go/kabbage/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 11:52:30 AM
What does it mean getting an SBA loan number? Also it seems that besides signing the loan documents with the bank some here are saying that they are getting an SBA loan doc to sign? With Dina they give you a SBA form to sign but that's BEFORE getting any approval from the SBA

SBA number seems to be an approval from SBA, meaning you got $ set aside from you. The bank, depending on their process, might not release the funds until you give them DD info, sign docs, or something else.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 30, 2020, 11:57:13 AM
Dime is telling me that they got SBA approval and it may take a few weeks for their underwriting team to complete. Seems like most bank send to the underwriting team before forwarding to the SBA and dime is right away sending to SBA to secure funds and then sending to the underwriting team for approval.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 11:59:27 AM
Funded in 36 hours!

https://www.dansdeals.com/go/kabbage/

I would maybe think that they fished out your application to get a shout out :-)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2020, 12:00:59 PM
Dime is telling me that they got SBA approval and it may take a few weeks for their underwriting team to complete. Seems like most bank send to the underwriting team before forwarding to the SBA and dime is right away sending to SBA to secure funds and then sending to the underwriting team for approval.
Apply with Kabbage.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on April 30, 2020, 12:04:58 PM
Apply with Kabbage.
They want me to sign that I didn't apply elsewhere. I did..
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2020, 12:06:05 PM
They want me to sign that I didn't apply elsewhere. I did..
Where does it say that?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 12:10:57 PM
Funded in 36 hours!

https://www.dansdeals.com/go/kabbage/

Nice, mazal tov.

I just spoke to Bluevine and they told me I won’t be approved with 2018 return + 2019 1099 and I need to upload a draft schedule C.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Apply with Kabbage.
CAN NOT. THEY HAVE ALREADY SBA APPROVAL SO THEY HAVE SBA MONEY PUT ASIDE FOR YOU EVEN IF FUNDS ARE DEPLETED
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Abc1234561 on April 30, 2020, 12:12:40 PM
Funded in 36 hours!

https://www.dansdeals.com/go/kabbage/

glad it worked for you. this is what they told me and i cannot reach them:

Thank you for your application for a loan through the Paycheck Protection Program. Unfortunately, we were unable to approve your business’s application for the following reason(s):

Not Eligible
If you have any questions, please contact us in writing at the following address:

Kabbage
925B Peachtree Street NE
Suite 1688
Atlanta, GA 30309
888-351-3143

Sincerely,

Kabbage Customer Service Team

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits creditors from discriminating against credit applicants on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age (provided the applicant has the capacity to enter into a binding contract); because all or part of the applicant’s income derives from any public assistance program; or because the applicant has in good faith exercised any right under the Consumer Credit Protection Act. The Federal agency that administers compliance with
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 12:13:51 PM
Apply with Kabbage.
Dime is telling me that they got SBA approval and it may take a few weeks for their underwriting team to complete. Seems like most bank send to the underwriting team before forwarding to the SBA and dime is right away sending to SBA to secure funds and then sending to the underwriting team for approval.

They’re either smart or Schmucks. They sent to SBA to hold $$ without  finishing their underwriting, legally they owe you the funds within 10 days.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 12:14:24 PM
glad it worked for you. this is what they told me and i cannot reach them:

Thank you for your application for a loan through the Paycheck Protection Program. Unfortunately, we were unable to approve your business’s application for the following reason(s):

Not Eligible
If you have any questions, please contact us in writing at the following address:

Kabbage
925B Peachtree Street NE
Suite 1688
Atlanta, GA 30309
888-351-3143

Sincerely,

Kabbage Customer Service Team

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits creditors from discriminating against credit applicants on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age (provided the applicant has the capacity to enter into a binding contract); because all or part of the applicant’s income derives from any public assistance program; or because the applicant has in good faith exercised any right under the Consumer Credit Protection Act. The Federal agency that administers compliance with
Did you apply thru any other bank also?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Abc1234561 on April 30, 2020, 12:15:17 PM
Did you apply thru any other bank also?

cross river the first day of the first round and was told the application did not go through and to apply again through kabbage.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
They’re either smart or Schmucks. They sent to SBA to hold $$ without  finishing their underwriting, legally they owe you the funds within 10 days.
THEY ARE SMART.
Probably all bankers are busy now submitting application, in a few days when funding will be depleted all bankers will start working on the underwriting. I dont see any reason it should take few weeks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
Dime is telling me that they got SBA approval and it may take a few weeks for their underwriting team to complete. Seems like most bank send to the underwriting team before forwarding to the SBA and dime is right away sending to SBA to secure funds and then sending to the underwriting team for approval.
Dime Banker Conversation

Me:It means from the SBA I have already approved funds even if they run out from funds now?
Banker:Yes sir.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 12:19:48 PM
Dime is telling me that they got SBA approval and it may take a few weeks for their underwriting team to complete. Seems like most bank send to the underwriting team before forwarding to the SBA and dime is right away sending to SBA to secure funds and then sending to the underwriting team for approval.
Application Number?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on April 30, 2020, 12:22:39 PM
Funded in 36 hours!

https://www.dansdeals.com/go/kabbage/

Mazal Tov

Still, this doesn't seem to be the common

I know many that applied early and still have not gotten a reply and let alone funding
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 12:29:50 PM
Any update how much money from SBA is committed already?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Mazal Tov

Still, this doesn't seem to be the common

I know many that applied early and still have not gotten a reply and let alone funding
Several others reporting the same for applications this week, weird that it's not going in order.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 02:31:51 PM
Several others reporting the same for applications this week, weird that it's not going in order.

Maybe they’re processing the biggest ones (closest to $350k) first?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on April 30, 2020, 02:41:22 PM
Maybe they’re processing the biggest ones (closest to $350k) first?
Yeah, it's more than likely that each step of the way here people are continuing to do what works out best for their own interests.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 30, 2020, 02:58:14 PM
Maybe they’re processing the biggest ones (closest to $350k) first?
i applied for a family member $8300, sunday night, had approval last night and funds are on the way.  very random with Kabbage
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 02:58:59 PM
Yeah, it's more than likely that each step of the way here people are continuing to do what works out best for their own interests.

Another theory is that banks are finding what they can process quickest within their workflows and first pushing though applications that fit that criteria
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on April 30, 2020, 03:02:16 PM
i applied for a family member $8300, sunday night, had approval last night and funds are on the way.  very random with Kabbage
small payroll or self-employed with Schedule C?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 30, 2020, 03:25:07 PM
small payroll or self-employed with Schedule C?
this
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 03:54:21 PM
Applied by Kabbage, than by Dime.
Received now from Dime that they submitted application but received error from SBA that I was already approved by another bank. Kabbage still doesnt show approved
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2020, 04:02:31 PM
Maybe they’re processing the biggest ones (closest to $350k) first?
Mine was nothing like that, but it's payroll.
Maybe that's going faster than sched C?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on April 30, 2020, 04:05:16 PM
Applied by Kabbage, than by Dime.
Received now from Dime that they submitted application but received error from SBA that I was already approved by another bank. Kabbage still doesnt show approved
I have a feeling that Kabbage may be sitting on many approvals as well as denials and they are slow on the updates. Hopefully for you what you received from Dime reflects SBA approval and you'll be notified soon.

Sounds like you probably did but make sure to check the portal as it seems to reflect updates much faster than their email notifications.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on April 30, 2020, 04:06:08 PM
Mine was nothing like that, but it's payroll.
Maybe that's going faster than sched C?
Do we know of any Kabbage approvals on Schedule C apps?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
Applied by Kabbage, than by Dime.
Received now from Dime that they submitted application but received error from SBA that I was already approved by another bank. Kabbage still doesnt show approved
It was a Cross River approval not Kabbage
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 05:59:37 PM
It was a Cross River approval not Kabbage

Because Cross River uses Kabbage, the two became interchangeable, might be the source of some of the confusion, especially because the hourly limits are per bank, not per platform.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on April 30, 2020, 06:00:07 PM
Applied by Kabbage, than by Dime.
Received now from Dime that they submitted application but received error from SBA that I was already approved by another bank. Kabbage still doesnt show approved

Hopefully this is good news.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Ergel on April 30, 2020, 07:24:30 PM
My dad got approved through his local bank with round 2 (they weren't taking applications round 1 and he went with a big bank and they never even processed his application).
A couple of questions:
Anyone know what happens if he's not able to open after 8 weeks and needs to lay off everyone again?
Employees over 100K aren't eligible for loan forgiveness - does that mean they are eligible up to 100K of their salary? Or they are not eligible at all? If the latter, what happens if you hire back everyone except those with over 100K salary? Are you still eligible for forgiveness?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 30, 2020, 07:35:35 PM
My dad got approved through his local bank with round 2 (they weren't taking applications round 1 and he went with a big bank and they never even processed his application).
A couple of questions:
Anyone know what happens if he's not able to open after 8 weeks and needs to lay off everyone again?
Employees over 100K aren't eligible for loan forgiveness - does that mean they are eligible up to 100K of their salary? Or they are not eligible at all? If the latter, what happens if you hire back everyone except those with over 100K salary? Are you still eligible for forgiveness?
Payroll only needs to he maintained for those 8 weeks. After that he's free to do what he wishes.

They're eligible up to 100k.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 30, 2020, 07:40:17 PM
Mine was nothing like that, but it's payroll.
Maybe that's going faster than sched C?
schedule C Kabbage applied last night and got approval just now. did it for my friend  $3500.

everyone i helped got approved...  and I'm still waiting for my own.   :(
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on April 30, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
schedule C Kabbage applied last night and got approval just now. did it for my friend  $3500.

everyone i helped got approved...  and I'm still waiting for my own.   :(
approval as in full SBA approval?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 30, 2020, 07:50:18 PM
Cross river approval. Applied yesterday. Was loan 4XX at Amex nothing. Applied 2 hours after Chase opened. Big banks major fail.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 30, 2020, 07:55:48 PM
approval as in full SBA approval?
Yes!  He couldn't even confirm his bank account yet because less than 24 hours.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on April 30, 2020, 07:57:09 PM
Payroll only needs to he maintained for those 8 weeks. After that he's free to do what he wishes.

They're eligible up to 100k.
Up to 100K or up to 100K on an Annualized? Source?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on April 30, 2020, 08:02:08 PM
Up to 100K or up to 100K on an Annualized? Source?
Annualized
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on April 30, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
does anyone know if one of the documents needed to apply for the EIDL loan is my tax return?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 30, 2020, 09:35:27 PM
schedule C Kabbage applied last night and got approval just now. did it for my friend  $3500.

everyone i helped got approved...  and I'm still waiting for my own.   :(
Do you know if i can apply if i am a schedule E thought a 1065-K-1 paying SE tax?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on April 30, 2020, 09:41:29 PM
Do you know if i can apply if i am a schedule E thought a 1065-K-1 paying SE tax?
no clue
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on April 30, 2020, 09:58:01 PM
Do you know if i can apply if i am a schedule E thought a 1065-K-1 paying SE tax?
If you have a positive # on line 14 of 1065 K1 you can apply.

https://bench.co/blog/operations/owner-draws-ppp/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: avrumy on April 30, 2020, 11:17:30 PM
If you have a positive # on line 14 of 1065 K1 you can apply.

https://bench.co/blog/operations/owner-draws-ppp/
ty
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 11:44:06 PM
Just got this from Chase.

XXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXX XXXXXXXX INC
Good news, your Small Business Administration (SBA) Paycheck Protection Program loan request was approved for $XX,XX.00.

Chase will deposit your loan funds into your oldest Chase Business checking account within three business days.

IMPORTANT:

This loan is issued under the SBA Paycheck Protection Program and is subject to various SBA requirements under law that                      apply directly to the borrower. If you have not already done so, you should review and become familiar with all of the                      program details and requirements that apply to borrowers, including applicable rules and FAQs, provided by the SBA and                      the U.S. Department of the Treasury found at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov.

Please remember:

The SBA restricts the use of these loan funds to specified purposes, and at least 75% must be used for payroll costs (as defined by the SBA). For example, you may not use these loan proceeds to pay mortgage principal or pre-payments, under SBA rules.

Additionally, the SBA has issued some guidance for borrowers on if, when, and how they can obtain forgiveness of all or                      a portion of the loan.

You should continue to review program details at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov, which may be updated from time to time,                      including descriptions of eligible uses of loan proceeds and rules concerning forgiveness, as well as the other topics covered.

To make sure you use loan proceeds properly, you may want to review and modify any automatic payments like ACH for the account                      holding these loan proceeds.

As noted above, it is the borrower’s obligation to understand the SBA’s rules.

For more information, visit chase.com/cares.

All loans are subject to SBA eligibility.

SBA funds are limited and are subject to availability.

ETA: Applied April 13 late in the day.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on April 30, 2020, 11:47:48 PM
Just got this from Chase.

XXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXX XXXXXXXX INC
Good news, your Small Business Administration (SBA) Paycheck Protection Program loan request was approved for $XX,XX.00.

Chase will deposit your loan funds into your oldest Chase Business checking account within three business days.

IMPORTANT:

This loan is issued under the SBA Paycheck Protection Program and is subject to various SBA requirements under law that                      apply directly to the borrower. If you have not already done so, you should review and become familiar with all of the                      program details and requirements that apply to borrowers, including applicable rules and FAQs, provided by the SBA and                      the U.S. Department of the Treasury found at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov.

Please remember:

The SBA restricts the use of these loan funds to specified purposes, and at least 75% must be used for payroll costs (as defined by the SBA). For example, you may not use these loan proceeds to pay mortgage principal or pre-payments, under SBA rules.

Additionally, the SBA has issued some guidance for borrowers on if, when, and how they can obtain forgiveness of all or                      a portion of the loan.

You should continue to review program details at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov, which may be updated from time to time,                      including descriptions of eligible uses of loan proceeds and rules concerning forgiveness, as well as the other topics covered.

To make sure you use loan proceeds properly, you may want to review and modify any automatic payments like ACH for the account                      holding these loan proceeds.

As noted above, it is the borrower’s obligation to understand the SBA’s rules.

For more information, visit chase.com/cares.

All loans are subject to SBA eligibility.

SBA funds are limited and are subject to availability.

ETA: Applied April 13 late in the day.
Nice!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on April 30, 2020, 11:49:39 PM
wow this sounds like a real mazel tov!
the first here from chase?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on April 30, 2020, 11:53:11 PM
Just got this from Chase.

XXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXX XXXXXXXX INC
Good news, your Small Business Administration (SBA) Paycheck Protection Program loan request was approved for $XX,XX.00.

Chase will deposit your loan funds into your oldest Chase Business checking account within three business days.

IMPORTANT:

This loan is issued under the SBA Paycheck Protection Program and is subject to various SBA requirements under law that apply directly to the borrower. If you have not already done so, you should review and become familiar with all of the program details and requirements that apply to borrowers, including applicable rules and FAQs, provided by the SBA and the U.S. Department of the Treasury found at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov.

Please remember:

The SBA restricts the use of these loan funds to specified purposes, and at least 75% must be used for payroll costs (as defined by the SBA). For example, you may not use these loan proceeds to pay mortgage principal or pre-payments, under SBA rules.

Additionally, the SBA has issued some guidance for borrowers on if, when, and how they can obtain forgiveness of all or a portion of the loan.

You should continue to review program details at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov, which may be updated from time to time, including descriptions of eligible uses of loan proceeds and rules concerning forgiveness, as well as the other topics covered.

To make sure you use loan proceeds properly, you may want to review and modify any automatic payments like ACH for the account holding these loan proceeds.

As noted above, it is the borrower’s obligation to understand the SBA’s rules.

For more information, visit chase.com/cares.

All loans are subject to SBA eligibility.

SBA funds are limited and are subject to availability.

ETA: Applied April 13 late in the day.
Congrats!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on April 30, 2020, 11:57:33 PM
wow this sounds like a real mazel tov!
the first here from chase?

Think so. Haven't seen anyone on here from Chase getting approved. I applied on the 13th because I was getting an error (see first post, I opened this thread) until I figured out what the issue was (after reading about it on Reddit), had to use an old username, otherwise my application would have been in on the first day.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on April 30, 2020, 11:59:07 PM
Think so. Haven't seen anyone on here from Chase getting approved.
Got one today as well, applied on pesach.

Signature Bank seems to have gotten many of theirs as well.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Deal Guy on May 01, 2020, 12:05:19 AM
If someone gets the ppp loan, and one low payment hourly worker, get sick with covid19, and doesnt come in for 6 weeks, and wants to apply for unemployment,  does that affect the ppp loan in any way?  (Lets say he will be back, a week or 2 into May.)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 12:06:50 AM
If someone gets the ppp loan, and one low payment hourly worker, get sick with covid19, and doesnt come in for 6 weeks, and wants to apply for unemployment,  does that affect the ppp loan in any way?  (Lets say he will be back, a week or 2 into May.)
I don't think that someone sick is eligible. They would get disability.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Deal Guy on May 01, 2020, 12:07:58 AM
https://www.nj.gov/labor/assets/PDFs/COVID-19%20SCENARIOS.pdf

Line 3?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 12:08:17 AM
If someone gets the ppp loan, and one low payment hourly worker, get sick with covid19, and doesnt come in for 6 weeks, and wants to apply for unemployment,  does that affect the ppp loan in any way?  (Lets say he will be back, a week or 2 into May.)
You need to maintain 75% of your usual wages during those 8 weeks.
That means you can either cut up to 25% of your workforce (assuming similar average wages), or you can cut pay to all your employees by 25%, and still qualify.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 01, 2020, 12:13:15 AM
You need to maintain 75% of your usual wages during those 8 weeks.
That means you can either cut up to 25% of your workforce (assuming similar average wages), or you can cut pay to all your employees by 25%, and still qualify.

You also need to have the same amount of FTE employees.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Deal Guy on May 01, 2020, 12:14:56 AM
Full time employess the entire time, or as long as they are rehired before June?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on May 01, 2020, 12:24:50 AM
If applying now, any reason to apply via cross river's site or Kabbage's?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 12:32:01 AM
Full time employess the entire time, or as long as they are rehired before June?
I find this June thing to be very confusing, but looks like only for those 8 weeks in it's entirety.

Your potential loan forgiveness may be reduced if you employ fewer people on average in the eight weeks after you receive a PPP loan compared to specific lookback periods set by the CARES Act.

you will be asked to compare the average number of monthly full-time equivalent (FTE) employees you employ during the eight-week period after you receive your loan with the average number of monthly full-time equivalent employees you employed during one of the following lookback periods:

February 15, 2019, to June 30, 2019
January 1, 2020, to February 29, 2020


https://quickbooks.intuit.com/small-business/coronavirus/resources/paycheck-protection-laid-off-employees/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on May 01, 2020, 12:35:58 AM
If applying now, any reason to apply via cross river's site or Kabbage's?
I'm partial, but if you do apply for Kabbage:
http://dansdeals.com/go/kabbage
:)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Moshe123 on May 01, 2020, 12:41:10 AM
Also just got approved. Chase.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 12:44:45 AM
does anyone know if one of the documents needed to apply for the EIDL loan is my tax return?

EIDL is closed. You’re eligible for PPP if you’re a business or (sometimes) if you’re self employed. PPP is for Payroll Protection Program, meaning you have to be paying someone (or yourself) to be eligible. And yes, I’m pretty sure in all instances you need a tax return, unless your business began after 1/1/2019 but before 2/15/2019
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on May 01, 2020, 01:01:12 AM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/bank-funded-ppp-forgivable-loan-request-not-try-kabbage/#comment-1466989
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 01, 2020, 01:19:26 AM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/bank-funded-ppp-forgivable-loan-request-not-try-kabbage/#comment-1466989
Interesting.   Thanks
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 01, 2020, 01:50:11 AM
Any update from SBA how much funds commited already?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 01, 2020, 07:33:01 AM
Got approved for 2 business by Chase


Good news, your Small Business Administration (SBA) Paycheck Protection Program loan request was approved for $xxxxx.00

Chase will deposit your loan funds into your oldest Chase Business checking account within three business days.

IMPORTANT:

This loan is issued under the SBA Paycheck Protection Program and is subject to various SBA requirements under law that apply directly to the borrower. If you have not already done so, you should review and become familiar with all of the program details and requirements that apply to borrowers, including applicable rules and FAQs, provided by the SBA and the U.S. Department of the Treasury found at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov.

Please remember:

The SBA restricts the use of these loan funds to specified purposes, and at least 75% must be used for payroll costs (as defined by the SBA). For example, you may not use these loan proceeds to pay mortgage principal or pre-payments, under SBA rules.

Additionally, the SBA has issued some guidance for borrowers on if, when, and how they can obtain forgiveness of all or a portion of the loan.

You should continue to review program details at SBA.gov and Treasury.gov, which may be updated from time to time, including descriptions of eligible uses of loan proceeds and rules concerning forgiveness, as well as the other topics covered.

To make sure you use loan proceeds properly, you may want to review and modify any automatic payments like ACH for the account holding these loan proceeds.

As noted above, it is the borrower’s obligation to understand the SBA’s rules.

For more information, visit chase.com/cares.

All loans are subject to SBA eligibility.

SBA funds are limited and are subject to availability.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 09:05:20 AM
Just got BofA notice to sign loan docs. They're saying funds will be released 1-2 days after signing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 09:09:27 AM
I think the question is will the payroll, utilities, and rent be tax deductible as a business expense even though you're receiving funds to cover those expenses? Or will the forgiveness mean that you need to zero those expenses out with the cash received.

Companies that qualify for loan forgiveness under legislation Congress approved won’t be able to deduct the wages or other businesses expenses they paid for using the loan, according to an IRS notice published Thursday.

“This treatment prevents a double tax benefit,” the agency said in the notice. “This conclusion is consistent with prior guidance of the IRS.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/irs-denies-deductions-forgiven-paycheck-002908409.html
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Abc1234561 on May 01, 2020, 09:10:02 AM
After Cross River telling me my April 7 application was lost, Kabbage telling me i am not eligible. I applied with Dime on April 28 and just got this email:

 All,

 Kindly note that we have secured a PLP (SBA Loan #) on behalf __________

This mean your funding amount is secure & earmarked with the SBA.

We will be moving to the underwriting/review part of the process – it make take a bit longer since we have a tremendous amount of applications but fewer hands to get to them.

I ask for your patience & I will keep you updated as I have more info.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: chff on May 01, 2020, 09:18:47 AM
Got email from Chase about approval
No need to cancel Kabbage....
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 09:37:28 AM
Woke up to an approval from Chase. I had applied Apr 21 and was rejected and reapplied on the 24th.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Wonder why so many DDFers are getting approved by Chase in the past 24 hours.

Also, if anyone has any direct contact info for a PPP banker at Dime, kindly share the info.

Thanks,

Asher
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Abc1234561 on May 01, 2020, 09:54:28 AM
Wonder why so many DDFers are getting approved by Chase in the past 24 hours.

Also, if anyone has any direct contact info for a PPP banker at Dime, kindly share the info.

Thanks,

Asher

Constantine (Dean) Highland

Assistant Vice President – Branch Manager

631-768-1319

dhighland@dime.com

 
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 09:56:10 AM
Constantine (Dean) Highland

Assistant Vice President – Branch Manager

631-768-1319

dhighland@dime.com

 

Super thanks!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Joe4007 on May 01, 2020, 10:11:08 AM
Wonder why so many DDFers are getting approved by Chase in the past 24 hours.

Also, if anyone has any direct contact info for a PPP banker at Dime, kindly share the info.

Thanks,

Asher
I know of a few Chase approvals as well. I'm guessing some of these were approved over the last few days, they just now got their act together and started sending out the emails.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on May 01, 2020, 10:22:02 AM
EIDL is closed. You’re eligible for PPP if you’re a business or (sometimes) if you’re self employed. PPP is for Payroll Protection Program, meaning you have to be paying someone (or yourself) to be eligible. And yes, I’m pretty sure in all instances you need a tax return, unless your business began after 1/1/2019 but before 2/15/2019
Thanks i'm just trying to prepare to be ready to apply when the EIDL reopens
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 10:23:42 AM
Thanks i'm just trying to prepare to be ready to apply when the EIDL reopens

Not sure EIDL will reopen. My guess is any outstanding funds once they processed grants will be used for EIDL loans (terms are much more favorable but if you got PPP then it gets rolled in).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on May 01, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Woke up to an approval from Chase.
BH me too i guess it was a lucky night
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on May 01, 2020, 10:26:25 AM
Not sure EIDL will reopen. My guess is any outstanding funds once they processed grants will be used for EIDL loans (terms are much more favorable but if you got PPP then it gets rolled in).
hope your wrong... but it sounds like your right :)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 10:27:04 AM
hope your wrong... but it sounds like your right :)

They got funded a while back, every day that passes it becomes less likely.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 01, 2020, 10:28:17 AM
Has anyone who applied / received approval with BlueVine actually received funds in their bank account yet? Approvals are coming so quickly for some that something does not feel completely legit here.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
They got funded a while back, every day that passes it becomes less likely.
yup i keep on checking to be on the safe side :)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 10:33:32 AM
Constantine (Dean) Highland

Assistant Vice President – Branch Manager

631-768-1319

dhighland@dime.com

Major shkoyach to @thebudgetdeals for introducing Dime to this thread and to @Abc1234561 for posting the contact info. Banker called me back (two calls) within minutes and since I was already deemed eligible to apply he was able to push it through himself to SBA and I’m BH approved by them.

Dime is different in that they first get SBA approval then they underwrite. He estimates it will take them 15-20 days to underwrite everyone (even though SBA is still expecting PPP loans to be funded within 10 business days).

If you haven’t applied with Dime it’s probably too late. He said last he check SBA website told him 75-80% of funds from second round have already depleted, and it’s likely funds will run out before they can get all their apps to SBA.

If you’re self employed (unincorporated) and have an application with Dime, they will need your 2019 schedule C draft to underwrite this.

He also told me the thing about opening an account for me, I didn’t get into details on that.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 10:34:57 AM
Has anyone who applied / received approval with BlueVine actually received funds in their bank account yet? Approvals are coming so quickly for some that something does not feel completely legit here.

Their phone menu says they’re aware of an issue accepting SBA offers (for people who got SBA approval) and are working to resolve the issue and that (if you got SBA approval through them) your funds will still be available once they resolve the issue.

Maybe they’re like Dime and are deferring the approvals for later.

Any word on a 3rd round of PPP funding? My guess is round 2 funds will be depleted before the weekend is up.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 01, 2020, 10:48:28 AM
Now the big question is the funding. I was approved by Chase and they have no money issues. I'm thinking how the smaller banks will fund this, they need to go out and borrow money, not sure how that process works, but Dime seems already taking SO long to fund. I also think Cross River doesn't have unlimited funds. Hope they don't fund you after the forgiveness period is over :-)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 01, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
Major shkoyach to @thebudgetdeals for introducing Dime to this thread and to @Abc1234561 for posting the contact info. Banker called me back (two calls) within minutes and since I was already deemed eligible to apply he was able to push it through himself to SBA and I’m BH approved by them.

Dime is different in that they first get SBA approval then they underwrite. He estimates it will take them 15-20 days to underwrite everyone (even though SBA is still expecting PPP loans to be funded within 10 business days).

If you haven’t applied with Dime it’s probably too late. He said last he check SBA website told him 75-80% of funds from second round have already depleted, and it’s likely funds will run out before they can get all their apps to SBA.

If you’re self employed (unincorporated) and have an application with Dime, they will need your 2019 schedule C draft to underwrite this.

He also told me the thing about opening an account for me, I didn’t get into details on that.
+$XXXXX ;D

called this banker and he claims i got a loan number.  huge thanks!

he also claims that PPP funds are probably depleted by end of day today.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 01, 2020, 10:50:42 AM
Now the big question is the funding. I was approved by Chase and they have no money issues. I'm thinking how the smaller banks will fund this, they need to go out and borrow money, not sure how that process works, but Dime seems already taking SO long to fund. I also think Cross River doesn't have unlimited funds. Hope they don't fund you after the forgiveness period is over :-)
supposedly 8 weeks starts after funding, not approval
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 10:58:04 AM
Now the big question is the funding. I was approved by Chase and they have no money issues. I'm thinking how the smaller banks will fund this, they need to go out and borrow money, not sure how that process works, but Dime seems already taking SO long to fund. I also think Cross River doesn't have unlimited funds. Hope they don't fund you after the forgiveness period is over :-)

I don’t think this is an issue, though I don’t really know how banking works “from the inside”.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 01, 2020, 11:13:48 AM
Now the big question is the funding. I was approved by Chase and they have no money issues. I'm thinking how the smaller banks will fund this, they need to go out and borrow money, not sure how that process works, but Dime seems already taking SO long to fund. I also think Cross River doesn't have unlimited funds. Hope they don't fund you after the forgiveness period is over :-)
The money comes from Treasury. Thats why congress approved $310 Billion
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 01, 2020, 11:16:06 AM
I find this June thing to be very confusing, but looks like only for those 8 weeks in it's entirety.

Your potential loan forgiveness may be reduced if you employ fewer people on average in the eight weeks after you receive a PPP loan compared to specific lookback periods set by the CARES Act.

you will be asked to compare the average number of monthly full-time equivalent (FTE) employees you employ during the eight-week period after you receive your loan with the average number of monthly full-time equivalent employees you employed during one of the following lookback periods:

February 15, 2019, to June 30, 2019
January 1, 2020, to February 29, 2020


https://quickbooks.intuit.com/small-business/coronavirus/resources/paycheck-protection-laid-off-employees/
@cgr Now that most ppl are approved already B"H, I think it would be great idea to start a separate thread with a WIKI for the forgiveness laws and details.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 01, 2020, 11:18:01 AM
CAUTION! Forgiveness start from date you are funded. If you pay rent on the 1st and you are funded on the 2nd it won't count. If you have approval but still no funds delay for few days Rent, Payroll, Utilities payments it should be in the forgiveness claculation.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 11:18:28 AM
@cgr Now that most ppl are approved already B"H, I think it would be great idea to start a separate thread with a WIKI for the forgiveness laws and details.

I wouldn’t say most. I think hustlers fared the best here.

Having said that, would be great to have forgiveness info for myself (unincorporated self-employed/independent-contractor). How do I prove I paid myself?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 11:24:07 AM
@cgr Now that most ppl are approved already B"H, I think it would be great idea to start a separate thread with a WIKI for the forgiveness laws and details.
Good idea.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:19 AM
I wouldn’t say most. I think hustlers fared the best here.

Having said that, would be great to have forgiveness info for myself (unincorporated self-employed/independent-contractor). How do I prove I paid myself?
Loans to self-employed/independent-contractors were approved based on records of payments made. I suggest you make payments during those 8 weeks in the same manner you usually do.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 11:32:50 AM
Loans to self-employed/independent-contractors were approved based on records of payments made. I suggest you make payments during those 8 weeks in the same manner you usually do.

Not really. It was approved based on 2019 1099 and 2018/2019 schedule C, not payments made.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 01, 2020, 11:36:23 AM
I helped someone apply for EIDL on 04/05, he just got funded.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 11:37:46 AM
I helped someone apply for EIDL on 04/05, he just got funded.
Loan or advance?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 01, 2020, 11:38:56 AM
The money comes from Treasury. Thats why congress approved $310 Billion

False. The bank funds it and the treasury forgives it or backs it.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 01, 2020, 12:05:47 PM
Loan or advance?
Advance/grant
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 12:18:57 PM
False. The bank funds it and the treasury forgives it or backs it.

Backs it means they just cover defaults? If these loans have no interest for a while, the banks are shelling out money for their underwriting commission? That doesn't sound right to me.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 12:21:43 PM
Not really. It was approved based on 2019 1099 and 2018/2019 schedule C, not payments made.
I understand, but how do you usually pay yourself? Do you have one account for business and personal? Or do you have separate accounts and you make occasional withdrawals from your business account to your personal?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: jackofall on May 01, 2020, 12:22:26 PM
Backs it means they just cover defaults? If these loans have no interest for a while, the banks are shelling out money for their underwriting commission? That doesn't sound right to me.
Interest payment is deferred, I believe they accrue.  Not a high percentage obviously. They can sell the loans.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on May 01, 2020, 12:24:07 PM
Why are so many more people here getting funded during this round?
I wonder what really happened in round 1...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 12:25:42 PM
I understand, but how do you usually pay yourself? Do you have one account for business and personal? Or do you have separate accounts and you make occasional withdrawals from your business account to your personal?

One personal account...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Zalc on May 01, 2020, 12:25:57 PM
From Dime:
Quote
Licely 12:24
Good Afternoon Zalc, Dime was one of the first banks to open the application process for the Paycheck Protection Program. Due to the overwhelming response, we are temporarily pausing the program to new applications. With this decision we can devote our full attention to the applications received to date, to ensure timely processing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 01, 2020, 12:27:40 PM
Why are so many more people here getting funded during this round?
I wonder what really happened in round 1...
Big boys took all the money.  Good thing it came in two rounds, it gives us little guys a chance after the government saw the big corporations took it all first round
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 12:28:49 PM
One personal account...
That's a toughie... SBA hasn't published much yet on contractor forgiveness- hopefully they do so soon.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 12:30:30 PM
That's a toughie... SBA hasn't published much yet on contractor forgiveness- hopefully they do so soon.

Thanks! I'm hoping there are many people in my situation so I don't fall through the cracks. Being on the line for the full PPP amount (and potentially interest) will make me regret taking the loan.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 01, 2020, 12:32:29 PM
Now the big question is the funding. I was approved by Chase and they have no money issues. I'm thinking how the smaller banks will fund this, they need to go out and borrow money, not sure how that process works, but Dime seems already taking SO long to fund. I also think Cross River doesn't have unlimited funds. Hope they don't fund you after the forgiveness period is over :-)

Banks only can approve loans for the amount of money they have available to lend.

The NY State pension fund invested $50 Million in a bank (Pursuit), so that they would have more money to lend.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 01, 2020, 12:51:34 PM
That's a toughie... SBA hasn't published much yet on contractor forgiveness- hopefully they do so soon.
What loan recipients will do going forward during the forgiveness period is likely what's most important. Probably smart to get a 2nd account opened right away and do things clean. That's the way it should be anyways.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 12:54:45 PM
Thanks! I'm hoping there are many people in my situation so I don't fall through the cracks. Being on the line for the full PPP amount (and potentially interest) will make me regret taking the loan.
No interest accrued in first 6 months and no prepayment penalties so as a worse case scenario you just repay the whole thing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 12:57:17 PM
No interest accrued in first 6 months and no prepayment penalties so as a worse case scenario you just repay the whole thing.

I'm going to be spending the money hoping it gets forgiven...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
I'm going to be spending the money hoping it gets forgiven...

Got some details for you:

https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-loan-forgiveness/
You are entitled to use the PPP loan to replace lost compensation due to the impacts of COVID-19. However, you are not entitled to use the full amount to replace pay. Eight weeks worth of your 2019 net profit will be eligible for forgiveness.

If you have mortgage interest, rent, or utilities expenses, you must have claimed or be entitled to claim a deduction for those expenses on your 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C in order to claim them for forgiveness.


https://www.nav.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-forgiveness-for-your-paycheck-protection-program-loan-602036/
Owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit … with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit
Payments of interest on mortgage obligations on real or personal property incurred before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business mortgage payments);
Rent payments on lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business rent payments); and
Utility payments under service agreements dated before February 15, 2020 to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business utility payments).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 01, 2020, 03:24:00 PM
Got some details for you:

https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-loan-forgiveness/
You are entitled to use the PPP loan to replace lost compensation due to the impacts of COVID-19. However, you are not entitled to use the full amount to replace pay. Eight weeks worth of your 2019 net profit will be eligible for forgiveness.

If you have mortgage interest, rent, or utilities expenses, you must have claimed or be entitled to claim a deduction for those expenses on your 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C in order to claim them for forgiveness.


https://www.nav.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-forgiveness-for-your-paycheck-protection-program-loan-602036/
Owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit … with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit
Payments of interest on mortgage obligations on real or personal property incurred before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business mortgage payments);
Rent payments on lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business rent payments); and
Utility payments under service agreements dated before February 15, 2020 to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business utility payments).


Another point I've seen though can't find a source is that for 8/52 of your 2019 Schedule C to be forgiven in lieu of salary, you'll be required to show that you did not have regular income during that time. Something others only have to certify to. (How do you prove that you didn't have something?🤔)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: bubkiz on May 01, 2020, 04:48:08 PM
FYI I was just told by a banker that there are many loans that were approved but the notifications did not yet go out (including ours b"h).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 01, 2020, 04:49:51 PM
FYI I was just told by a banker that there are many loans that were approved but the notifications did not yet go out (including ours b"h).
Which Bank?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: bubkiz on May 01, 2020, 04:58:26 PM
Which Bank?
To clarify: I applied through Kabbage, Fundera and Quickloansdirect.com. Did not get any real approval notifications (did get a seemingly false positive email from Kabbage). I called a friend who is a commercial banker who has access to the SBA system. He told me that many have been calling him to apply and while their bank is not processing applications by starting an application they are able to see if there is an approval for the entity. He tried and b"h we have an approval somewhere else. He told me this has happened quite a few times in the last few days.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 01, 2020, 04:59:27 PM
To clarify: I applied through Kabbage, Fundera and Quickloansdirect.com. Did not get any real approval notifications (did get a seemingly false positive email from Kabbage). I called a friend who is a commercial banker who has access to the SBA system. He told me that many have been calling him to apply and while their bank is not processing applications by starting an application they are able to see if there is an approval for the entity. He tried and b"h we have an approval somewhere else. He told me this has happened quite a few times in the last few days.

Any idea who the approval was through?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Moshe123 on May 01, 2020, 05:39:36 PM
Why are so many more people here getting funded during this round?
I wonder what really happened in round 1...

I'll tell you. All the large companies with solid banking relationships with the higher level were put through.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on May 01, 2020, 05:48:52 PM
I'll tell you. All the large companies with solid banking relationships with the higher level were put through.

-1.

I'll tell you. All the businesses that had relationships with human being bankers, their paperwork in solid order, and applied within 72 business hours of Friday April 3rd, got funded in round 1.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Moshe123 on May 01, 2020, 06:08:03 PM
-1.

I'll tell you. All the businesses that had relationships with human being bankers, their paperwork in solid order, and applied within 72 business hours of Friday April 3rd, got funded in round 1.

We have solid relationships. Filed Monday April 6 and only got in second round.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Moshe123 on May 01, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
Chase approvals from last night seem to have funded now.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 01, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Chase approvals from last night seem to have funded now.

Thanks for the heads-up. Just checked and funds are in BH.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 01, 2020, 06:41:02 PM
Chase approvals from last night seem to have funded now.
+1
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 06:55:59 PM
I think Chase is underwriting, then submitting to SBA, and clearing funds quickly.

Other banks seem to getting the SBA approval first and worrying about the underwing later.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 01, 2020, 07:05:44 PM
Other banks seem to getting the SBA approval first and worrying about the underwing later.

Which means that some (hopefully not too many) people who think they will be getting money won't if they don't get through underwriting.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on May 01, 2020, 07:10:08 PM
I think Chase is underwriting, then submitting to SBA, and clearing funds quickly.

Other banks seem to getting the SBA approval first and worrying about the underwing later.

Any bank besides Dime doing that?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 07:12:17 PM
Any bank besides Dime doing that?

Anecdotes like this make me think that might be the case:

FYI I was just told by a banker that there are many loans that were approved but the notifications did not yet go out (including ours b"h).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 01, 2020, 07:12:54 PM
Which means that some (hopefully not too many) people who think they will be getting money won't if they don't get through underwriting.

Underwriting is a rubber stamp. The banks send to SBA when they have what to work with.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: bigG on May 02, 2020, 09:49:50 PM
i got through them. no prior relationship

You got thru Celtic bank. :)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 02, 2020, 11:04:40 PM
You got thru Celtic bank. :)

Thats through BlueVine in case anyone is wondering.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 02, 2020, 11:05:34 PM
Anyone know which banks are approving S-corps that only have independent contractors (1099) on payroll?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 02, 2020, 11:09:01 PM
Anyone know which banks are approving S-corps that only have independent contractors (1099) on payroll?
My understanding is that they would not be eligible.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 02, 2020, 11:13:54 PM
Anyone know which banks are approving S-corps that only have independent contractors (1099) on payroll?
Independent contractors need to apply on their own.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 02, 2020, 11:19:45 PM
Independent contractors need to apply on their own.

I'm asking if there's a way to double dip. In this case many independent contractors of the S corp are not applying on their own for various reasons.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 02, 2020, 11:21:35 PM
I'm asking if there's a way to double dip. In this case many independent contractors of the S corp are not applying on their own for various reasons.
This somewhat applies to me and I found that these are not eligible payroll expenses.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 02, 2020, 11:29:07 PM
This somewhat applies to me and I found that these are not eligible payroll expenses.

I'm asking if that's true for all lenders, I seemed to remember some banks were accepting IC/1099 as Payroll, but I don't remember where and it wasn't relevant to me at the time, now it is.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 02, 2020, 11:32:39 PM
I'm asking if that's true for all lenders, I seemed to remember some banks were accepting IC/1099 as Payroll, but I don't remember where and it wasn't relevant to me at the time, now it is.
It is from SBA guidelines. I think that some accepted at first while the SBA was vague but that they have since issued clearer guidelines. The ability to include 1099 would have been very valuable to me.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 02, 2020, 11:58:53 PM
Interestingly, I just recieved this email from the SBA. I got an EIDL advance and a PPP loan but did not apply for any other loan.


Dear Applicant,

We understand the challenges your business is facing due to the massive disruption caused by the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. You are receiving this message as a notification that your Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) application is currently being processed in the order it was received. You will receive an email notification when there is a change to your application status.

Without question, COVID-19 has caused an extraordinary impact on our nation's small businesses, and the demand for emergency working capital provided by the EIDL program is at historic levels. The SBA is processing applications from small businesses and private non-profit organizations across the country as quickly as possible. We thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to assist as many applicants as possible.

Additional information on available resources to assist your business during the effects of COVID-19 may be found online at www.sba.gov/coronavirus.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 12:03:20 AM
I'm asking if that's true for all lenders, I seemed to remember some banks were accepting IC/1099 as Payroll, but I don't remember where and it wasn't relevant to me at the time, now it is.

https://www.sba.com/funding-a-business/government-small-business-loans/ppp/faq/contractors-included-payroll-calculations-ppp/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 12:03:54 AM
Interestingly, I just recorded this email from the SBA. I got am EIDL advance and a PPP loan but shots not apply for any other loan.

Shots?

SBA will have a few billion left over (I estimated as much as $30B) once they give all 4 million applicants their grants. A few lucky SBA applicants will also get EIDL, which has much more favorable terms, but I'm not sure how it would work for them if they also got PPP.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 12:05:53 AM
https://www.sba.com/funding-a-business/government-small-business-loans/ppp/faq/contractors-included-payroll-calculations-ppp/

Hope anyone who applied early and got approved under this premise won't have issues with forgiveness, that would such for businesses who go on paying contractors expecting to get forgiven, and are left holding the bag.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 03, 2020, 12:06:57 AM
Interestingly, I just recorded this email from the SBA. I got am EIDL advance and a PPP loan but shots not apply for any other loan.


Dear Applicant,

We understand the challenges your business is facing due to the massive disruption caused by the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. You are receiving this message as a notification that your Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) application is currently being processed in the order it was received. You will receive an email notification when there is a change to your application status.

Without question, COVID-19 has caused an extraordinary impact on our nation's small businesses, and the demand for emergency working capital provided by the EIDL program is at historic levels. The SBA is processing applications from small businesses and private non-profit organizations across the country as quickly as possible. We thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to assist as many applicants as possible.

Additional information on available resources to assist your business during the effects of COVID-19 may be found online at www.sba.gov/coronavirus.

Looks like some auto-correct going on there. I think you meant to say that you received EIDL & PPP already? Please clarify.

I received this email too. Looks like it was probably sent to all EIDL applicants.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 12:08:34 AM
Looks like some auto-correct going on there. I think you meant to say that you received EIDL & PPP already? Please clarify.

I received this email too. Looks like it was probably sent to all EIDL applicants.

Yes, he got an EIDL grant, and PPP loan.

If you're an EIDL applicant, expect a grant to magically appear in your bank account, they don't really notify you before or afterwards.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2020, 12:10:49 AM
Shots?

SBA will have a few billion left over (I estimated as much as $30B) once they give all 4 million applicants their grants. A few lucky SBA applicants will also get EIDL, which has much more favorable terms, but I'm not sure how it would work for them if they also got PPP.
Looks like some auto-correct going on there. I think you meant to say that you received EIDL & PPP already? Please clarify.

I received this email too. Looks like it was probably sent to all EIDL applicants.
Edited to

Interestingly, I just recieved this email from the SBA. I got an EIDL advance and a PPP loan but did not apply for any other loan.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 12:19:13 AM
Just got email from Dime with Bank account opening docs. seems that its already after underwriting approval
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Moshe123 on May 03, 2020, 12:28:41 AM
Interestingly, I just recieved this email from the SBA. I got an EIDL advance and a PPP loan but did not apply for any other loan.


Dear Applicant,

We understand the challenges your business is facing due to the massive disruption caused by the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. You are receiving this message as a notification that your Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) application is currently being processed in the order it was received. You will receive an email notification when there is a change to your application status.

Without question, COVID-19 has caused an extraordinary impact on our nation's small businesses, and the demand for emergency working capital provided by the EIDL program is at historic levels. The SBA is processing applications from small businesses and private non-profit organizations across the country as quickly as possible. We thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to assist as many applicants as possible.

Additional information on available resources to assist your business during the effects of COVID-19 may be found online at www.sba.gov/coronavirus.


Got the same tonight.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 03, 2020, 12:29:05 AM
Just got email from Dime with Bank account opening docs. seems that its already after underwriting approval
Got the same email. Asked banker if this means that the underwriting team has already approved it and she said no.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2020, 12:29:31 AM
Got the same tonight.
What did you apply for?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 12:37:42 AM
What did you apply for?
EIDL with advance
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 03, 2020, 12:49:49 AM
+$XXXXX ;D

called this banker and he claims i got a loan number.  huge thanks!

he also claims that PPP funds are probably depleted by end of day today.
very interesting scenario. i just got the approval email from Kabbage. so might be that Dime banker got the notification that my social is approved. and he might have thought that its through his application.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 03, 2020, 01:17:45 AM
very interesting scenario. i just got the approval email from Kabbage. so might be that Dime banker got the notification that my social is approved. and he might have thought that its through his application.
BH you got approval.

I got 2 approvals from BV on Friday (applied on Friday!) and they say they already initiated deposits.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 01:19:44 AM
very interesting scenario. i just got the approval email from Kabbage. so might be that Dime banker got the notification that my social is approved. and he might have thought that its through his application.

That’s really odd. Banker should be able to see who the lender on the approval is, no?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 03, 2020, 01:21:08 AM
That’s really odd. Banker should be able to see who the lender on the approval is, no?
i would think so. i guess time will tell who gives the payout
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 03, 2020, 02:07:46 AM
That’s really odd. Banker should be able to see who the lender on the approval is, no?
Which leads me to think that what dime bankers are saying about getting loan number and funds put aside may not be so simple. If he was approved by a different bank already then the banker is mistaken by saying that he has a loan number for him. Then maybe all bankers are repeating the same non sense. Maybe the LPL number they are referring as SBA number is just an internal approval number before actually going to the SBA.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 02:19:13 AM
Which leads me to think that what dime bankers are saying about getting loan number and funds put aside may not be so simple. If he was approved by a different bank already then the banker is mistaken by saying that he has a loan number for him. Then maybe all bankers are repeating the same non sense. Maybe the LPL number they are referring as SBA number is just an internal approval number before actually going to the SBA.
-1
This is what someone got from his Dime banker


Hi,

 

It seems that your application was approved at another bank, we received the following message:

 

Errors occurred in application 1 of 1:

SBA app 157**** rolled back (no longer exists) due to Validation error:

00001. For Application, Applicant can only have one Payroll Protection loan (237)



Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 03, 2020, 02:27:49 AM
Just received my EIDL grant.
Got PPP on Friday

It's important to remember that grant is also for payroll and can't be the same as expenses as ppp
 when asking for forgiveness you may Need to explain this
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 02:28:32 AM
From this email you can see 2 things.
1. They dont know who is the other bank who approved you, they are just receiving an error.
2. Dime approval number is an SBA number
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 02:52:54 AM
Just received my EIDL grant.
Got PPP on Friday

It's important to remember that grant is also for payroll and can't be the same as expenses as ppp
 when asking for forgiveness you may Need to explain this
EIDL can be used for a lot more than payroll, and a lot more than what the PPP can be used for.


Also:
The EIDL... will be subtracted from the PPP loan forgiveness amount and has to be declared when you apply for the PPP.
https://bench.co/blog/operations/eidl-vs-ppp/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 03, 2020, 03:04:22 AM
Can I pay rent upfront for more than these 8 weeks and have it forgiven?
Will they check lease or prior months payments?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: joeb1 on May 03, 2020, 05:46:10 AM
Don’t be an idiot ...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 06:22:16 AM
Can I pay rent upfront for more than these 8 weeks and have it forgiven?
Will they check lease or prior months payments?

At least 75% of loan amount has to be spent on payroll in order to qualify for forgiveness. Based on how they structured it, people should not have been able to borrow much more than 1.25 times their payroll for 8 weeks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 03, 2020, 09:12:49 AM
At least 75% of loan amount has to be spent on payroll in order to qualify for forgiveness. Based on how they structured it, people should not have been able to borrow much more than 1.25 times their payroll for 8 weeks.

Do you mean 2.25?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 09:18:35 AM
Do you mean 2.25?

Roughly 1.25 because it’s 2.5x the monthly, and a calendar month is a bit longer than 4 weeks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 03, 2020, 09:34:48 AM
At least 75% of loan amount has to be spent on payroll in order to qualify for forgiveness. Based on how they structured it, people should not have been able to borrow much more than 1.25 times their payroll for 8 weeks.

But we still have the EIDL that still has to be spent on something other than payroll
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Anyone knows of a Paypal approval in Round #2?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on May 03, 2020, 09:51:41 AM
Has anyone here received an EIDL for over $15,000?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 03, 2020, 09:58:43 AM
Does the EIDL also need to be used in the first 8 weeks?

Trying to make sure they don't deduct my EIDL from PPP forgiveness.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 09:59:21 AM
But we still have the EIDL that still has to be spent on something other than payroll

I think the EIDL advance is subtracted from your PPP forgiveness amount regardless of what it’s spent on. Please CMIIW.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 10:00:12 AM
Has anyone here received an EIDL for over $15,000?

Isn’t the advance up to $10k?

You know anyone at all who received an EIDL loan?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 10:00:51 AM
Does the EIDL also need to be used in the first 8 weeks?

Trying to make sure they don't deduct my EIDL from PPP forgiveness.

My understanding is the EIDL is always deducted. You have an authoritative source saying otherwise?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 03, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
My understanding is the EIDL is always deducted. You have an authoritative source saying otherwise?

Even if payroll is more than EDIL and PPP?
I was still only gets ppp amount forgiven
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
Even if payroll is more than EDIL and PPP?
I was still only gets ppp amount forgiven
My understanding is that EIDL is always deducted from PPP forgiveness.
If you spend both on payroll they won't increase your forgiveness to the cumulative amount. The total of your PPP loan is what's eligible for forgiveness, and if you also recieved an EIDL you must roll that in.

Basically going for an EIDL does not increase your PPP. Think of it as one loan with different terms, capped at the total allowed by your PPP calc. If you use 1k from the EIDL bucket you must remove that 1k from the PPP bucket.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on May 03, 2020, 10:44:18 AM
My understanding is that EIDL is always deducted from PPP forgiveness.
If you spend both on payroll they won't increase your forgiveness to the cumulative amount. The total of your PPP loan is what's eligible for forgiveness, and if you also recieved an EIDL you must roll that in.

Basically going for an EIDL does not increase your PPP. Think of it as one loan with different terms, capped at the total allowed by your PPP calc. If you use 1k from the EIDL bucket you must remove that 1k from the PPP bucket.

A) I though you arent allowed to use the EIDL and PPP for the same thing.

B) Is the EIDL taken off the top? Meaning let's say you got 20k PPP and have 2 employees (so 2k advance grant). If taken off the top that would mean you calculate your 75% payroll at 18k (13,500). If taken off at the end then would be 75% of 20k (15,000).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 11:15:27 AM
What will be considered F/T or P/T employees that you need to have by June 30? Does F/T mean 40 hrs a week or 4 days a week?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 03, 2020, 11:20:54 AM
Looking for some clarity....
If  I only applied for a loan to cover employees which I intened to pay and spend the whole loan on salaried payroll which I intend to keep on paying through the rest of the year but I laid off a many hourly employees because the locations are closed, will I still qualify for 100% forgiveness?
I've seen conflicting reports
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 12:21:49 PM
As of Apr 24 EIDL issues already "8 TRILLION" dollars in loans with the average loan being approx $200K

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Loans%204.24.20.pdf

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Advance%204.24.20.pdf
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 03, 2020, 12:22:29 PM
Looking for some clarity....
If  I only applied for a loan to cover employees which I intened to pay and spend the whole loan on salaried payroll which I intend to keep on paying through the rest of the year but I laid off a many hourly employees because the locations are closed, will I still qualify for 100% forgiveness?
I've seen conflicting reports
English please?

You need to have same amount of employees.   Not same amount of payroll expenses
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 12:28:23 PM
As of Apr 24 EIDL issues already "8 TRILLION" dollars in loans with the average loan being approx $200K

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Loans%204.24.20.pdf

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Advance%204.24.20.pdf

Something doesn’t add up here. This is for Corona related EIDL loans?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on May 03, 2020, 12:29:25 PM
As of Apr 24 EIDL issues already "8 TRILLION" dollars in loans with the average loan being approx $200K

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Loans%204.24.20.pdf

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Advance%204.24.20.pdf

According to the top PDF you linked it's almost 8 billion in loans. Not 8 Trillion
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 12:33:03 PM
According to the top PDF you linked it's almost 8 billion in loans. Not 8 Trillion
Sorry! In these times you don't see a difference between Billion and Trillion :-*
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 12:33:33 PM
A) I though you arent allowed to use the EIDL and PPP for the same thing.

B) Is the EIDL taken off the top? Meaning let's say you got 20k PPP and have 2 employees (so 2k advance grant). If taken off the top that would mean you calculate your 75% payroll at 18k (13,500). If taken off at the end then would be 75% of 20k (15,000).
A) the same thing meaning the same expense. (Example: Your rent is 1k. You can't tell PPP you used 1k for rent, and then tell EIDL you used their 1k for rent.)

B) Your PPP loan amount stays the same. When it comes to forgiveness they'll take Total PPP (20k) Minus Total EIDL Grant (2k)= PPP Forgiveness (18k). That leaves you with a loan balance of 2k, which is the amount you already got from EIDL.

Again, what they're saying is you're only eligible to get the total of your PPP forgiveness from the SBA. If you took some from our EIDL grant bucket, you'll need to make up the difference by deducting from your forgiveness.
If I'm not being clear maybe someone with better communication skills can chime in?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Looking for some clarity....
If  I only applied for a loan to cover employees which I intened to pay and spend the whole loan on salaried payroll which I intend to keep on paying through the rest of the year but I laid off a many hourly employees because the locations are closed, will I still qualify for 100% forgiveness?
I've seen conflicting reports

Your forgiveness will be reduced by the percentage of FTE employees you let go (or do not rehire). So even if your hourly employees were part time, they add up (so if you have 2 workers that worked 15 hours a week before, they equal one FTE employee).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 03, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
English please?

You need to have same amount of employees.   Not same amount of payroll expenses
someone in the company advised the accounting Dept. to only apply for the amount that we assumed would be forgiven. For example, say the salaried employees added up to $100000 fir 8 weeks of payroll and the hourly employees added up to an additional$100000 for 8 weeks of payroll. The acct Dept only applied for $100000 loan assuming that was the forgivable amount. In reality it seems we should have applied for $200000 and simply returned$100000. My question is , will the whole $100000 that we actually got approved for be forgivable if it is all spent on payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 12:55:31 PM
someone in the company advised the accounting Dept. to only apply for the amount that we assumed would be forgiven. For example, say the salaried employees added up to $100000 fir 8 weeks of payroll and the hourly employees added up to an additional$100000 for 8 weeks of payroll. The acct Dept only applied for $100000 loan assuming that was the forgivable amount. In reality it seems we should have applied for $200000 and simply returned$100000. My question is , will the whole $100000 that we actually got approved for be forgivable if it is all spent on payroll.
The 75% payroll guideline is the floor, not the ceiling.
If you can spend 100% on payroll, your forgiveness will be much simpler. You'll probably just need to submit your payroll report for those 8 weeks, instead of submitting lease agreements, proof of payment, etc.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
There's talk that the SBA will release the official forgiveness guidelines tomorrow- hopefully lots of these questions will be definitively answered.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 03, 2020, 05:03:37 PM
Can someone pls post a link to apply for EIDL?  I'm on this pg & whichever option I select I see no "Apply" button.

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options

Also, does a/o know if there's still a chance the SBA will provide funding for add'l applicants?

Thank you, I tried searching upthread but didn't come across this specific info.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mme on May 03, 2020, 05:09:06 PM
Can someone pls post a link to apply for EIDL?  I'm on this pg & whichever option I select I see no "Apply" button.

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options

Also, does a/o know if there's still a chance the SBA will provide funding for add'l applicants?

Thank you, I tried searching upthread but didn't come across this specific info.
it's not available anymore https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/economic-injury-disaster-loan-emergency-advance
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 03, 2020, 05:14:30 PM
it's not available anymore https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/economic-injury-disaster-loan-emergency-advance

Thank you for your response, anyone have any DP on add'l funds becoming avail or is this opportunity mostly over?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 03, 2020, 06:16:24 PM
Sorry! In these times you don't see a difference between Billion and Trillion :-*

Makes much more sense, they might have $30b more to give, but it’s a pittance compared to PPP.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 06:40:37 PM
The 75% payroll guideline is the floor, not the ceiling.
If you can spend 100% on payroll, your forgiveness will be much simpler. You'll probably just need to submit your payroll report for those 8 weeks, instead of submitting lease agreements, proof of payment, etc.

His problem will be with the condition that he have the same number of employees.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 06:48:29 PM
someone in the company advised the accounting Dept. to only apply for the amount that we assumed would be forgiven. For example, say the salaried employees added up to $100000 fir 8 weeks of payroll and the hourly employees added up to an additional$100000 for 8 weeks of payroll. The acct Dept only applied for $100000 loan assuming that was the forgivable amount.

Someone gave the accounting department bad advice.

In reality it seems we should have applied for $200000 and simply returned $100000.

Not so simple. If you let go 50% of your employees, they will only forgive 50% of the money spent on eligible expenses(in your example, $100k).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 03, 2020, 06:57:48 PM
Not so simple. If you let go 50% of your employees, they will only forgive 50% of the money spent on eligible expenses(in your example, $100k).
if this is true,
Someone gave the accounting department bad advice.
then why is this true?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 07:17:25 PM
if this is true,then why is this true?

Because you could have gotten (50%) forgiveness on some additional money spent on Utilities, rent, mortgage interest (not principal) above the amount spent on payroll.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 03, 2020, 07:24:12 PM
Because you could have gotten (50%) forgiveness on some additional money spent on Utilities, rent, mortgage interest (not principal) above the amount spent on payroll.

If they based their application on 2.5X payroll, they're good.
If they went with 100k flat because that's their payroll for 8 weeks, then yes, they were misled.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 03, 2020, 07:26:59 PM
Because you could have gotten (50%) forgiveness on some additional money spent on Utilities, rent, mortgage interest (not principal) above the amount spent on payroll.
no rent or utilities right now...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 07:34:29 PM
no rent or utilities right now...

I hear. You also could have rehired the hourly employees and you would have come out ahead.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 03, 2020, 07:41:18 PM
I hear. You also could have rehired the hourly employees and you would have come out ahead.
how would we come out ahead? Wouldn't it be a wash?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 08:22:51 PM
how would we come out ahead? Wouldn't it be a wash?

No. Now you borrowed $100k and will get $50k forgiven. If you would have borrowed $200k you would have the money to rehire everyone and get all $200k forgiven. Basically you would be $50k ahead.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2020, 08:51:12 PM
No. Now you borrowed $100k and will get $50k forgiven. If you would have borrowed $200k you would have the money to rehire everyone and get all $200k forgiven. Basically you would be $50k ahead.
Or not rehire and get 100k forgiven and repay the rest.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: joeberg on May 03, 2020, 09:03:49 PM
Someone gave the accounting department bad advice.

Not so simple. If you let go 50% of your employees, they will only forgive 50% of the money spent on eligible expenses(in your example, $100k).
Not sure if this helps but,
From an email our payroll company sent out:

"Keep Track of Employee Headcount and Salary Levels. For the next eight weeks, if your
average number of full-time equivalent employees per month is less than the average during a
base period, your forgivable loan amount will be reduced. The base period is either (1) 2/15/19
through 6/30/19, or (2) 1/1/20 through 2/29/20. We can help you choose the period that produces
the best result."
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 03, 2020, 09:30:24 PM
The following email was sent out to some people who originally applied for PPP via Eastern Union / CrossRiver in the beginning of Phase 1, before Kabbage was in the picture:

Subject: Paycheck Protection Program - Your Application Status Update

We are happy to report that your Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) application has been accepted, processed and assigned a loan number in the SBA’s E-Tran system.

Next Steps
Within the next week, you will receive closing documentation via email. The email will be from Cross River SBA via DocuSign with subject line Documents for your DocuSign Signature. Please follow the instructions within the email to execute your PPP documentation. After we receive your completed closing documentation, your funds will be disbursed within 10 business days.

Thank You
We appreciate your choosing Cross River for your PPP loan, and we look forward to delivering your funding as quickly as possible.

The Cross River Team
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 03, 2020, 09:38:40 PM
Thank you for applying for the Paycheck Protection Program Loan through PayPal. 

We submitted your completed application to the SBA and have received a response from the SBA indicating another provider has already secured a PPP loan for your business/organization. Each business entity can only receive one PPP loan. Therefore, we will not be able to continue the processing of your loan application.

If you do not have an approved Paycheck Protection Program Loan through another provider, please click here to provide your feedback so that we can follow-up as appropriate.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

The PayPal Business Financing Solutions Team
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
Or not rehire and get 100k forgiven and repay the rest.

If he only spends $100k (which is his current payroll cost for 8 weeks), and he has only 50% of the employees, only $50k will be forgiven.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2020, 10:09:31 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2020/05/02/congress-could-reverse-irs-denial-of-tax-deductions-for-paycheck-protection-expenses/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 03, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
If he only spends $100k (which is his current payroll cost for 8 weeks), and he has only 50% of the employees, only $50k will be forgiven.
Are you sure it get cut in half twice?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 03, 2020, 11:05:52 PM
Are you sure it get cut in half twice?

Pretty sure but I guess we'll see what the SBA says tomorrow.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
Hope anyone who applied early and got approved under this premise won't have issues with forgiveness, that would such for businesses who go on paying contractors expecting to get forgiven, and are left holding the bag.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

Question: I filed or approved a loan application based on the version of the PPP Interim
Final Rule published on April 2, 2020. Do I need to take any action based on the updated
guidance in these FAQs?
Answer: No. Borrowers and lenders may rely on the laws, rules, and guidance available
at the time of the relevant application. However, borrowers whose previously submitted
loan applications have not yet been processed may revise their applications based on
clarifications reflected in these FAQs.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 04, 2020, 11:34:57 AM
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

Question: I filed or approved a loan application based on the version of the PPP Interim
Final Rule published on April 2, 2020. Do I need to take any action based on the updated
guidance in these FAQs?
Answer: No. Borrowers and lenders may rely on the laws, rules, and guidance available
at the time of the relevant application. However, borrowers whose previously submitted
loan applications have not yet been processed may revise their applications based on
clarifications reflected in these FAQs.


That’s very vague, it’s very much ambiguous as to whether that applies to forgiveness, in fact forgiveness isn’t mentioned at all.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 11:39:58 AM
Another interesting point from https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

Question: Will a borrower’s PPP loan forgiveness amount (pursuant to section 1106 of
the CARES Act and SBA’s implementing rules and guidance) be reduced if the borrower
laid off an employee, offered to rehire the same employee, but the employee declined the
offer?
Answer: No. As an exercise of the Administrator’s and the Secretary’s authority under
Section 1106(d)(6) of the CARES Act to prescribe regulations granting de minimis
exemptions from the Act’s limits on loan forgiveness, SBA and Treasury intend to issue
an interim final rule excluding laid-off employees whom the borrower offered to rehire
(for the same salary/wages and same number of hours) from the CARES Act’s loan
forgiveness reduction calculation. The interim final rule will specify that, to qualify for
this exception, the borrower must have made a good faith, written offer of rehire, and the
employee’s rejection of that offer must be documented by the borrower. Employees and
employers should be aware that employees who reject offers of re-employment may
forfeit eligibility for continued unemployment compensation.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
Another interesting point from https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

Question: Will a borrower’s PPP loan forgiveness amount (pursuant to section 1106 of
the CARES Act and SBA’s implementing rules and guidance) be reduced if the borrower
laid off an employee, offered to rehire the same employee, but the employee declined the
offer?
Answer: No. As an exercise of the Administrator’s and the Secretary’s authority under
Section 1106(d)(6) of the CARES Act to prescribe regulations granting de minimis
exemptions from the Act’s limits on loan forgiveness, SBA and Treasury intend to issue
an interim final rule excluding laid-off employees whom the borrower offered to rehire
(for the same salary/wages and same number of hours) from the CARES Act’s loan
forgiveness reduction calculation. The interim final rule will specify that, to qualify for
this exception, the borrower must have made a good faith, written offer of rehire, and the
employee’s rejection of that offer must be documented by the borrower. Employees and
employers should be aware that employees who reject offers of re-employment may
forfeit eligibility for continued unemployment compensation.

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 12:30:39 PM
 28.Question:  Is a lender permitted to submit a PPP loan application to SBA through E-Tran before the lender has fulfilled its responsibility to review the required borrower documentation and calculation of payroll costs?Answer:  No.  Before a lender submits a PPP loan through E-Tran, the lender must have collected the information and certifications contained in the Borrower Application Form and the lender must have fulfilled its obligations set forth in paragraphs 3.b.(i)-(iii) of the PPP Interim Final Rule.  Please refer to the Interim Final Rule and FAQ #1 for more information on the lender’s responsibility regarding confirmation of payroll costs.  Lenders who did not understand that these steps are required before submission to E-Tran need not withdraw applications submitted to E-Tran before April 14, 2020, but must fulfill lender responsibilities with respect to those applications as soon as practicable and no later than loan closing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 04, 2020, 12:40:02 PM
28.Question:  Is a lender permitted to submit a PPP loan application to SBA through E-Tran before the lender has fulfilled its responsibility to review the required borrower documentation and calculation of payroll costs?Answer:  No.  Before a lender submits a PPP loan through E-Tran, the lender must have collected the information and certifications contained in the Borrower Application Form and the lender must have fulfilled its obligations set forth in paragraphs 3.b.(i)-(iii) of the PPP Interim Final Rule.  Please refer to the Interim Final Rule and FAQ #1 for more information on the lender’s responsibility regarding confirmation of payroll costs.  Lenders who did not understand that these steps are required before submission to E-Tran need not withdraw applications submitted to E-Tran before April 14, 2020, but must fulfill lender responsibilities with respect to those applications as soon as practicable and no later than loan closing.

Paging Dime... when was this posted?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 12:45:41 PM
Paging Dime... when was this posted?
First they should disburse the money than you could page them...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 04, 2020, 12:50:08 PM
First they should disburse the money than you could page them...

I’m not taking for granted that the bankers verbal assurance that I was issued an SBA means I’m getting a loan through Dime.

Maybe it’s true, maybe I have SBA approval through another lender and they just didn’t get around to notifying me, or maybe I didn’t get any approval at all. We’ll find out soon enough.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 12:58:31 PM
I’m not taking for granted that the bankers verbal assurance that I was issued an SBA means I’m getting a loan through Dime.

Maybe it’s true, maybe I have SBA approval through another lender and they just didn’t get around to notifying me, or maybe I didn’t get any approval at all. We’ll find out soon enough.
Btw I know someone who applied by Dime and Paypal, both of them declined him because he has already an SBA number :'(
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 01:01:40 PM
g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes.  iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be withheld from employees;

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Interim%20Final%20Rule_0.pdf


Anyone knows a lender who asked to exclude the FICA amount from the EMPLOYEES part in the payroll calculation?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 01:03:10 PM
g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes.  iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be withheld from employees;

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Interim%20Final%20Rule_0.pdf


Anyone knows a lender who asked to exclude the FICA amount from the EMPLOYEES part in the payroll calculation?

My understanding is that all federal taxes were excluded in all calculations (loan and forgiveness)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 01:37:01 PM
My understanding is that all federal taxes were excluded in all calculations (loan and forgiveness)
But all calculations were based on gross wages from forms W-3/940/941/NY-45. I dont think any bank excluded the FICA tax witholdings
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 04, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
Btw I know someone who applied by Dime and Paypal, both of them declined him because he has already an SBA number :'(

Did he apply elsewhere? Maybe fraud or someone with similar EIN/SSN who made an error?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 01:50:15 PM
But all calculations were based on gross wages from forms W-3/940/941/NY-45. I dont think any bank excluded the FICA tax witholdings

That's your mistake then and their's for approving it. Shouldn't have been included.
W-3/940/941/NY-45 were provided as documentation to proves a) wages b) state and local tax
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 04, 2020, 01:52:03 PM
Note that guestions 39 and below had all been previously published. The footnotes give a date for different questions.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 01:52:11 PM
That's your mistake then and their's for approving it. Shouldn't have been included.
W-3/940/941/NY-45 were provided as documentation to proves a) wages b) state and local tax
Federal tax is not excluded neither, only FICA tax
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 01:55:20 PM
If this is true than all ppl who are going to have a separate account to keep tab, will still have to divide the IRS tax withholdings as part of it will be forgivable (Federal Tax) and part not (FICA)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 04, 2020, 01:58:06 PM
IIRC this is a question which was asked here:

15. Question: Should payments that an eligible borrower made to an independent contractor or sole proprietor be included in calculations of the eligible borrower’s payroll costs?
Answer: No. Any amounts that an eligible borrower has paid to an independent contractor or sole proprietor should be excluded from the eligible business’s payroll costs. However, an independent contractor or sole proprietor will itself be eligible for a loan under the PPP, if it satisfies the applicable requirements.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 02:00:12 PM
SBA will begin accepting new Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance applications on a limited basis only to provide relief to U.S. agricultural businesses.


Can we file a lawsuit against this discrimination?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 04, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
SBA will begin accepting new Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance applications on a limited basis only to provide relief to U.S. agricultural businesses.


Can we file a lawsuit against this discrimination?
Thank Mitch McConnell
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
But the application page is open. Think we should go ahead and apply even id not agriculture? Anything to lose?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 02:05:19 PM
Federal tax is not excluded neither, only FICA tax

-1

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Interim%20Final%20Rule_0.pdf

g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes. The Act expressly excludes the following:
...
iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be
withheld from employees;...

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

16. Question: How should a borrower account for federal taxes when determining its payroll costs for purposes of the maximum loan amount, allowable uses of a PPP loan, and the amount of a loan that may be forgiven?
Answer: Under the Act, payroll costs are calculated on a gross basis without regard to (i.e., not including subtractions or additions based on) federal taxes imposed or withheld, such as the employee’s and employer’s share of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) and income taxes required to be withheld from employees. As a result, payroll costs are not reduced by taxes imposed on an employee and required to be withheld by the employer, but payroll costs do not include the employer’s share of payroll tax...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 02:07:17 PM
If this is true than all ppl who are going to have a separate account to keep tab, will still have to divide the IRS tax withholdings as part of it will be forgivable (Federal Tax) and part not (FICA)

Since no federal tax is forgivable, you only need to keep track of 1) gross wages 2) state and local tax
Most payroll reports separate these out very clearly so shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 02:08:16 PM
-1

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Interim%20Final%20Rule_0.pdf

g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes. The Act expressly excludes the following:
...
iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be
withheld from employees;...

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

16. Question: How should a borrower account for federal taxes when determining its payroll costs for purposes of the maximum loan amount, allowable uses of a PPP loan, and the amount of a loan that may be forgiven?
Answer: Under the Act, payroll costs are calculated on a gross basis without regard to (i.e., not including subtractions or additions based on) federal taxes imposed or withheld, such as the employee’s and employer’s share of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) and income taxes required to be withheld from employees. As a result, payroll costs are not reduced by taxes imposed on an employee and required to be withheld by the employer, but payroll costs do not include the employer’s share of payroll tax...
EXPLAIN THE NEXT LINE

 For example, an employee who earned $4,000 per month in gross wages, from which $500 in federal taxes was withheld, would count as $4,000 in payroll costs.  The employee would receive $3,500, and $500 would be paid to the federal government.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 02:09:16 PM
And whats with the FICA TAX FROM THE $4k??
I think something is messed up in the guidelines
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 02:10:15 PM
EXPLAIN THE NEXT LINE

 For example, an employee who earned $4,000 per month in gross wages, from which $500 in federal taxes was withheld, would count as $4,000 in payroll costs.  The employee would receive $3,500, and $500 would be paid to the federal government.
You're thinking employee side. We only care about employer side. Obviously the employee has deductions on their end after you pay them their gross wages.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
You're thinking employee side. We only care about employer side. Obviously the employee has deductions on their end after you pay them their gross wages.
g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes.  iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be withheld from employees;
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 02:15:49 PM
g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes.  iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be withheld from employees;
I can only assume employee's share of FICA is only deducted if the business or a self-employed individual pays it. They clearly state that gross wages are included, and gross wages is where the employee side of FICA is ultimately deducted from.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 04, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
But the application page is open. Think we should go ahead and apply even id not agriculture? Anything to lose?

Anyone??
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 02:17:54 PM
But the application page is open. Think we should go ahead and apply even id not agriculture? Anything to lose?
Anyone applying? Please post
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 04, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
But the application page is open. Think we should go ahead and apply even id not agriculture? Anything to lose?
I can't imagine there is anything to lose.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 04, 2020, 02:35:22 PM
My accountant said to try, have nothing to lose.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 04, 2020, 02:56:46 PM
I can't verify but I'm hearing that someone called the SBA and they said all industries can apply, but they will give preferential treatment to Agri businesses
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 04, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
For an independent contractor (1099 and submitted a Schedule C), am I correct in assuming that for the 75% requirement of covering payroll, there will be no need to "prove" payroll (there is no payroll...), as you are simply replacing the funds of your lost 1099 income (as calculated by the 2019 Schedule C)?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 03:00:49 PM
For an independent contractor (1099 and submitted a Schedule C), am I correct in assuming that for the 75% requirement of covering payroll, there will be no need to "prove" payroll (there is no payroll...), as you are simply replacing the funds of your lost 1099 income (as calculated by the 2019 Schedule C)?

Got some details for you:

https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-loan-forgiveness/
You are entitled to use the PPP loan to replace lost compensation due to the impacts of COVID-19. However, you are not entitled to use the full amount to replace pay. Eight weeks worth of your 2019 net profit will be eligible for forgiveness.

If you have mortgage interest, rent, or utilities expenses, you must have claimed or be entitled to claim a deduction for those expenses on your 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C in order to claim them for forgiveness.


https://www.nav.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-forgiveness-for-your-paycheck-protection-program-loan-602036/
Owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit … with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit
Payments of interest on mortgage obligations on real or personal property incurred before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business mortgage payments);
Rent payments on lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business rent payments); and
Utility payments under service agreements dated before February 15, 2020 to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business utility payments).

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 04, 2020, 03:23:59 PM
EIDL IS BACK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://covid19relief.sba.gov/#/

@Dan I thing it deserves a DDMS post.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 04, 2020, 03:24:49 PM
EIDL IS BACK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://covid19relief.sba.gov/#/

@Dan I thing it deserves a DDMS post.
SBA will begin accepting new Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance applications on a limited basis only to provide relief to U.S. agricultural businesses.


Can we file a lawsuit against this discrimination?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 04, 2020, 03:27:24 PM
Not sure where you get it from. Link looks regular to me. I can continue with just saying I am a "Applicant is a business with not more than 500 employees."
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 03:44:44 PM
Not sure where you get it from. Link looks regular to me. I can continue with just saying I am a "Applicant is a business with not more than 500 employees."
I reviewed the application and it's the same. Many aren't seeing the cover page and only bookmarked the actual application link so I doubt they can penalize for applying.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 04, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
I reviewed the application and it's the same. Many aren't seeing the cover page and only bookmarked the actual application link so I doubt they can penalize for applying.

Right, you can't be penalized when you don't lie. Just say the truth.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 04, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
Applied & got conf number.  Any DP on whether they provide funding even though credit rate below 650 at this time (according to Cap One Creditwise. Citibank shows 691.)?
Credit took a hit recently, wondering if those who rec'd did so with less than stellar credit.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 04, 2020, 04:19:08 PM
Applied & got conf number.  Any DP on whether they provide funding even though credit rate below 650 at this time (according to Cap One Creditwise. Citibank shows 691.)?
Credit took a hit recently, wondering if those who rec'd did so with less than stellar credit.

I don't believe credit is a factor considered
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 04, 2020, 04:35:02 PM
I don't believe credit is a factor considered

Asking because replies #489-491 on this thread (didn't figure out yet how to quote multiple responses in one mssg), see also conversations bet. 4/21 - 4/22.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 04, 2020, 05:43:25 PM
-1

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP%20Interim%20Final%20Rule_0.pdf

g. Is there anything that is expressly excluded from the definition of payroll costs?
Yes. The Act expressly excludes the following:
...
iii. Federal employment taxes imposed or withheld between February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020, including the employee’s and employer’s share of FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) and Railroad Retirement Act taxes, and income taxes required to be
withheld from employees;...

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

16. Question: How should a borrower account for federal taxes when determining its payroll costs for purposes of the maximum loan amount, allowable uses of a PPP loan, and the amount of a loan that may be forgiven?
Answer: Under the Act, payroll costs are calculated on a gross basis without regard to (i.e., not including subtractions or additions based on) federal taxes imposed or withheld, such as the employee’s and employer’s share of Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) and income taxes required to be withheld from employees. As a result, payroll costs are not reduced by taxes imposed on an employee and required to be withheld by the employer, but payroll costs do not include the employer’s share of payroll tax...

February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020 is a key point that you are overlooking.

If you calculated your loan amount based on 2019, it is irrelevant. Only if you used the past 12 months, or a new business that used Q1 of 2020
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 04, 2020, 05:53:49 PM
February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020 is a key point that you are overlooking.

If you calculated your loan amount based on 2019, it is irrelevant. Only if you used the past 12 months, or a new business that used Q1 of 2020

Forgiveness has the same definition. What's the point of taking it if it you won't be able to get it forgiven?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 04, 2020, 07:23:03 PM
February 15, 2020 and June 30, 2020 is a key point that you are overlooking.

If you calculated your loan amount based on 2019, it is irrelevant. Only if you used the past 12 months, or a new business that used Q1 of 2020
Whats the difference regarding payroll taxes which payroll you use?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 04, 2020, 10:25:11 PM
Not sure if this helps but,
From an email our payroll company sent out:

"Keep Track of Employee Headcount and Salary Levels. For the next eight weeks, if your
average number of full-time equivalent employees per month is less than the average during a
base period, your forgivable loan amount will be reduced. The base period is either (1) 2/15/19
through 6/30/19, or (2) 1/1/20 through 2/29/20. We can help you choose the period that produces
the best result."

If this is true, then it's very helpful.
We furlough many employees every January due to winter break.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 05, 2020, 01:10:41 AM
Can rent or other obligations be prepaid?
To be forgiven, the CARES Act states costs must be incurred and paid during the covered period. Further guidance specifically addresses that prepayments of mortgage payments is not allowed

https://www.aicpa.org/interestareas/privatecompaniespracticesection/qualityservicesdelivery/sba-paycheck-protection-program-resources-for-cpas/sba-payroll-protection-program-faqs.htm

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 05, 2020, 01:12:56 AM
Do federal taxes count as “payroll costs” for calculating the forgiveness?
Under the Cares Act, no. The language of the Cares Act specifically excludes taxes assessed or withheld under Chapters 21, 22 and 24 of the Internal Revenue Code, which includes FICA, Railroad Retirement Tax, and Withholdings on Federal Income Tax. However, on April 8 the SBA issued additional guidance in the form of its own FAQ which states that contrary to the definition of payroll costs found in the Act, payroll costs should be calculated on a “gross basis without regard to federal taxes imposed or withheld.” As a result, the SBA interprets this to mean payroll costs are not reduced by the taxes imposed on an employee and required to be withheld by the employer, but payroll costs are also not increased by the employer’s share of payroll costs. The following example is used: an employee receives gross pay of $4,000, of which $500 is withheld for federal taxes; The full $4,000 would count as payroll costs, however, the employer-side federal payroll taxes imposed on the $4,000 are excluded from payroll costs.

https://messerlikramer.com/calculating-ppp-loan-forgiveness-faqs
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 05, 2020, 01:17:25 AM
How is the headcount for full-time equivalent employees calculated during the covered period?
Section 2301(c)(3) of the Cares Act, which deals with employee retention, points to Section 4980H of the Internal Revenue Code to define a full-time employee as one who works on average at least 30 hours a week. Further down in IRC Section 4980H, a full-time equivalent employee is determined by adding the hours of all non-full-time employees during the month and dividing by 120. However, the Cares Act also requires this determination to be made each pay period during the Covered Period. We are currently advising clients to add the total number of hours of non-full time employees and divide by 30, 60, or 120 depending on the pay period (30 if weekly, 60 if bi-weekly, and 120 if monthly). More guidance is needed.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 05, 2020, 01:22:22 AM
Can an independent contractor who is approved for PPP and will use the finds to cover their paycheck go out and take a new salaried job during those 8 weeks? Any reason someone couldn't be "paid" for their lost 1099 work while simultaneously accepting a new paid position (entirely separate from their 1099 work that they are in fact missing out on...)?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 05, 2020, 01:27:06 AM
https://home.treasury.gov/news/secretary-statements-remarks/joint-statement-by-treasury-secretary-steven-t-mnuchin-and-sba-administrator-jovita-carranza-on-the-success-of-the-paycheck-protection-program

“Since Round 2 of PPP loan processing began on April 27, 2.2 million loans have been made to small businesses which surpasses the number of all loans made in PPP Round 1.  The total value of these 2.2 million loans is over $175 billion.  Notably, the average loan size in Round 2 is $79,000, yet another indicator that the program is broadly based and assisting the smallest of small businesses.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/PPP2%20Data%2005012020.pdf
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2020, 06:20:18 AM
https://home.treasury.gov/news/secretary-statements-remarks/joint-statement-by-treasury-secretary-steven-t-mnuchin-and-sba-administrator-jovita-carranza-on-the-success-of-the-paycheck-protection-program

“Since Round 2 of PPP loan processing began on April 27, 2.2 million loans have been made to small businesses which surpasses the number of all loans made in PPP Round 1.  The total value of these 2.2 million loans is over $175 billion.  Notably, the average loan size in Round 2 is $79,000, yet another indicator that the program is broadly based and assisting the smallest of small businesses.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/PPP2%20Data%2005012020.pdf

$175b means they’re less than 60% of the way through the 2nd round of funds, no? Or do they only mean funded loans?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 05, 2020, 08:53:46 AM
$175b means they’re less than 60% of the way through the 2nd round of funds, no? Or do they only mean funded loans?

I think that number is as of May 1st
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 05, 2020, 09:00:00 AM
I think that number is as of May 1st
correct
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 05, 2020, 12:28:20 PM
Did ANYONE get funded yet from Dime?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 05, 2020, 12:30:26 PM
Got funded this morning from Citizen's.
They claim as long as the full funds are spent on the next 8 weeks payroll, we'll get 100% forgiveness but who knows
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 05, 2020, 12:40:10 PM
Got funded this morning from Citizen's.
They claim as long as the full funds are spent on the next 8 weeks payroll, we'll get 100% forgiveness but who knows

Glad to hear you were funded, can't still wrap my head around the WRONG info you were given to apply for less than you are eligible. I would try to get the rest of the loan, call your bank.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Abc1234561 on May 05, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
Did ANYONE get funded yet from Dime?

not yet but they made me open a checking account with them in order to deposit the funds.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 05, 2020, 12:48:13 PM
Glad to hear you were funded, can't still wrap my head around the WRONG info you were given to apply for less than you are eligible.

Not so surprising. There wasn't much information available at the beginning, and lots of people were guessing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 05, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
Is it Kabbage's lucky day?
Just got "Congratulations! XXXXXXX qualified for a PPP loan of $XX,XXX.00"
This is after having "Your application has been submitted to the SBA" since Monday night.

Yesterday I called in to check what was going on after having the above for a few days. Rep said she'll forward file to supervisor. A few min later I had my loan docs, and a few min after signing they updated account to note that they disbursed the funds to the account selected.
Now this morning when I log in there's a new error, There was an error processing your documents, and that I should call them. Phones have been busy all morning.

Wondering if it's a legit error or if it's something like this:
If you applied to Kabbage for PPP and had a "Not Eligible" determination this morning, check again.
They've updated thousands of applications to "Under Review" or "Submitted to SBA".

Ridiculous. Was so disappointed this morning after spending hours on an non-profits application, and now heard via the grapevine to check again and viola! Submitted to SBA!

Anyone else receiving this error?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 05, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Not so surprising. There wasn't much information available at the beginning, and lots of people were guessing.
+100
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on May 05, 2020, 03:07:36 PM
Yesterday I called in to check what was going on after having the above for a few days. Rep said she'll forward file to supervisor. A few min later I had my loan docs, and a few min after signing they updated account to note that they disbursed the funds to the account selected.
Now this morning when I log in there's a new error, There was an error processing your documents, and that I should call them. Phones have been busy all morning.

Wondering if it's a legit error or if it's something like this:
Anyone else receiving this error?

Didn't get that error but try DMing them on Twitter. Very fast response.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 05, 2020, 03:10:29 PM
Can an independent contractor who is approved for PPP and will use the finds to cover their paycheck go out and take a new salaried job during those 8 weeks? Any reason someone couldn't be "paid" for their lost 1099 work while simultaneously accepting a new paid position (entirely separate from their 1099 work that they are in fact missing out on...)?
And this question would also apply to additional NEW unrelated 1099 work...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 05, 2020, 03:11:58 PM
Didn't get that error but try DMing them on Twitter. Very fast response.

Tried that twice. One check-mark, no response (first message was over a week ago when I had a different issue)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: JACKBLUE on May 05, 2020, 04:09:27 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/05/coronavirus-first-fraud-case-involving-ppp-small-business-program/3085676001/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 05, 2020, 04:19:27 PM
Tried that twice. One check-mark, no response (first message was over a week ago when I had a different issue)
try again on twitter. at some point they will asnwer.  but try logging out and back in and see if the error is still there
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 05, 2020, 04:51:53 PM
try again on twitter. at some point they will asnwer.  but try logging out and back in and see if the error is still there
Thanks. Will do.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yossisch1 on May 05, 2020, 05:32:33 PM
I just got an email from Kabbage that I was approved.  I want to open a bank account for the funds to go there. 
1)Where can I open a business account online?
2) Can I wait to sign the docs or I am risking funds being exhausted?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 05, 2020, 06:06:06 PM
Kabbage has asked me to upload my 1040 - C 3 times already. I spoke to a rep & they said I shouldn’t even need to upload it as I’m an independent contractor…

& eastern union with their new application yesterday hasn’t changed anything either.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yossisch1 on May 05, 2020, 06:08:23 PM
Kabbage has asked me to upload my 1040 - C 3 times already. I spoke to a rep & they said I shouldn’t even need to upload it as I’m an independent contractor…

& eastern union with their new application yesterday hasn’t changed anything either.

They also asked me for that.  I send it in and got approved within hours.  It does not need to be filed.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2020, 06:11:55 PM
Kabbage has asked me to upload my 1040 - C 3 times already. I spoke to a rep & they said I shouldn’t even need to upload it as I’m an independent contractor…

& eastern union with their new application yesterday hasn’t changed anything either.

Why wouldn’t they need a schedule C for an independent contractor?

What do you mean eastern union has a new app? Did they ditch cross river?

They also asked me for that.  I send it in and got approved within hours.  It does not need to be filed.

I uploaded mine a week ago, they’re still “reviewing my information”.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yossisch1 on May 05, 2020, 06:17:00 PM
Why wouldn’t they need a schedule C for an independent contractor?

What do you mean eastern union has a new app? Did they ditch cross river?

I uploaded mine a week ago, they’re still “reviewing my information”.

Call them
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 05, 2020, 06:55:30 PM
They also asked me for that.  I send it in and got approved within hours.  It does not need to be filed.

I sent it in all 3 times. There’s no deductions on it just income maybe that’s why they feel it’s not filled out idk. Really annoying.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2020, 06:58:14 PM
Call them

I tried and pretty sure their phone system kicks you off after 5 minutes in the queue.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 05, 2020, 06:58:17 PM
Why wouldn’t they need a schedule C for an independent contractor?

What do you mean eastern union has a new app? Did they ditch cross river?

I uploaded mine a week ago, they’re still “reviewing my information”.

Idk that’s what the rep told me I uploaded it regardless.

EU sent out an email yesterday basically saying if you haven’t been approved with kabbage yet reapply with a link they sent in an email & they’ll be on top of it. If you don’t receive a response within a few hours reply to the email. No proactive engagement on their end since but I’m in middle of emailing somebody there so be’h it should work out.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2020, 06:59:36 PM
Idk that’s what the rep told me I uploaded it regardless.

EU sent out an email yesterday basically saying if you haven’t been approved with kabbage yet reapply with a link they sent in an email & they’ll be on top of it. If you don’t receive a response within a few hours reply to the email. No proactive engagement on their end since but I’m in middle of emailing somebody there so be’h it should work out.

Somebody there means somebody at EU? Can you plz post the link they shared?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 05, 2020, 07:06:17 PM
I tried and pretty sure their phone system kicks you off after 5 minutes in the queue.

I though u got approved already? If you need I can forward you the email & you can apply from there.

Kabbage does do that with phone calls but I’ve been able to get in touch with them a few times.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
I though u got approved already? If you need I can forward you the email & you can apply from there.

Kabbage does do that with phone calls but I’ve been able to get in touch with them a few times.

Dime banker gave me a verbal assurance I’m approved. The more time that passes and neither of my three applications (including Dime) show any movement, the more skeptical I am about the Dime approval.

Regarding EU, I’m just wondering what they’re doing. I don’t plan on applying a fourth time now.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 05, 2020, 07:10:54 PM
Dime banker gave me a verbal assurance I’m approved. The more time that passes and neither of my three applications (including Dime) show any movement, the more skeptical I am about the Dime approval.

Regarding EU, I’m just wondering what they’re doing. I don’t plan on applying a fourth time now.

Ah thought u wanted it I sent it to you. Basically as I said earlier personally pushing through the applications it seems like
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: moko on May 05, 2020, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: Roth&Co email
Please read if you have received PPP funds but suspect you may not be eligible.

The CARES Act provided relief through the Payroll Protection Program (“PPP”) loans to small businesses meeting certain conditions. These much-needed loans were a great relief to business owners who clamored to receive funding. The CARES Act states that the loan must be “necessary to support the on-going operations of the applicant”. Unfortunately, the term “necessary” was left vague and unexplained. Until now, borrowers were able to self-assess their need for the PPP loans, but the SBA continuously issued announced new clarifications and guidelines. As a result of further guidelines imposed by the Small Business Administration, a business was eligible for PPP if there is economic uncertainty and the loan was necessary to support the business’ ongoing operations, taking into account its current business activity and its ability to access other sources of liquidity.

The SBA also stated that it will audit businesses with loan amounts in excess of $2 million, as well as random audits for other small businesses. If an employer is found to have taken a loan that wasn’t necessary, the funds may have to be returned and the applicant may face criminal penalties or imprisonment. The SBA decided to provide a grace period, until May 7th, for ineligible businesses to return loans as part of a safe harbor amnesty program.

If you have any concerns regarding your eligibility of PPP or if you would like to conduct a study to assess your certification and whether the PPP loan was necessary for your business, please feel free to reach out to your partner or our advisory team at advisory@rothcocpa.com.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 05, 2020, 09:25:07 PM
I tried and pretty sure their phone system kicks you off after 5 minutes in the queue.

Try emailing them. They kept asking me for a document that I didn't have, and after I emailed them they moved forward.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 05, 2020, 09:32:03 PM
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3085676001
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 05, 2020, 09:55:10 PM
Applied EIDL April 8, received advance May 4
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zale on May 05, 2020, 10:45:19 PM
Applied EIDL April 8, received advance May 4

How much?

I received $1k. I’m not trying to bite the hand that feeds, but it’s unfair that they changed the terms after I applied to give $1k per employee. The EIDL was supposed to protect independent, sole-proprietor and single member businesses as much as any other business, and the PPP was for employees.

Why should an independent contractor who makes 100k per year get less than a small restaurant with a few employees when the restaurant can apply for PPP???
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: sillypainter on May 05, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
How much?

I received $1k. I’m not trying to bite the hand that feeds, but it’s unfair that they changed the terms after I applied to give $1k per employee. The EIDL was supposed to protect independent, sole-proprietor and single member businesses as much as any other business, and the PPP was for employees.

Why should an independent contractor who makes 100k per year get less than a small restaurant with a few employees when the restaurant can apply for PPP???

The SP can also apply for PPP.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 05, 2020, 10:47:55 PM
How much?

I received $1k. I’m not trying to bite the hand that feeds, but it’s unfair that they changed the terms after I applied to give $1k per employee. The EIDL was supposed to protect independent, sole-proprietor and single member businesses as much as any other business, and the PPP was for employees.

Why should an independent contractor who makes 100k per year get less than a small restaurant with a few employees when the restaurant can apply for PPP???

What's preventing you from applying for PPP?
The EIDL is mostly a loan and the PPP is mostly a grant.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 05, 2020, 11:12:15 PM
Applied EIDL April 8, received advance May 4

Applied EIDL April 6, received advance May 1 - 1k
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Dan on May 06, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
EIDL IS BACK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


https://covid19relief.sba.gov/#/

@Dan I thing it deserves a DDMS post.
Open to everyone?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:17:32 AM
Open to everyone?
Application goes through for everyone. some mentioned up-thread that they are first processing Agri but...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:33:43 AM
As mentioned already above the EIDL advance amount is being reduced from the PPP forgiveness amount, so if you received already PPP than think over if there is a reason to apply for EIDL advance part.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 06, 2020, 07:58:57 AM
Got approval email overnight from kabbage.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 09:36:58 AM
Yesterday I called in to check what was going on after having the above for a few days. Rep said she'll forward file to supervisor. A few min later I had my loan docs, and a few min after signing they updated account to note that they disbursed the funds to the account selected.
Now this morning when I log in there's a new error, There was an error processing your documents, and that I should call them. Phones have been busy all morning.

Wondering if it's a legit error or if it's something like this:
Anyone else receiving this error?

Looks like this was another temporary or internal error. Cleared up and funds were released. Go figure...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yossisch1 on May 06, 2020, 09:46:21 AM
I just got an email from Kabbage that I was approved.  I want to open a bank account for the funds to go there. 
1)Where can I open a business account online?
2) Can I wait to sign the docs or I am risking funds being exhausted?
Bump
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 10:47:56 AM
A) the same thing meaning the same expense. (Example: Your rent is 1k. You can't tell PPP you used 1k for rent, and then tell EIDL you used their 1k for rent.)

B) Your PPP loan amount stays the same. When it comes to forgiveness they'll take Total PPP (20k) Minus Total EIDL Grant (2k)= PPP Forgiveness (18k). That leaves you with a loan balance of 2k, which is the amount you already got from EIDL.

Again, what they're saying is you're only eligible to get the total of your PPP forgiveness from the SBA. If you took some from our EIDL grant bucket, you'll need to make up the difference by deducting from your forgiveness.
If I'm not being clear maybe someone with better communication skills can chime in?

@Shua I've been doing some more research on this and to clarify only the grant is deducted from the total PPP forgiveness.
If you received an actual EIDL loan (I haven't personally heard of anyone getting to that step yet) then it has to be rolled into your PPP.

See link below for more info
https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-eidl-together/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 11:00:55 AM
Quote from: Quote from: Roth&Co email
Please read if you have received PPP funds but suspect you may not be eligible.

The CARES Act provided relief through the Payroll Protection Program (“PPP”) loans to small businesses meeting certain conditions. These much-needed loans were a great relief to business owners who clamored to receive funding. The CARES Act states that the loan must be “necessary to support the on-going operations of the applicant”. Unfortunately, the term “necessary” was left vague and unexplained. Until now, borrowers were able to self-assess their need for the PPP loans, but the SBA continuously issued announced new clarifications and guidelines. As a result of further guidelines imposed by the Small Business Administration, a business was eligible for PPP if there is economic uncertainty and the loan was necessary to support the business’ ongoing operations, taking into account its current business activity and its ability to access other sources of liquidity.

The SBA also stated that it will audit businesses with loan amounts in excess of $2 million, as well as random audits for other small businesses. If an employer is found to have taken a loan that wasn’t necessary, the funds may have to be returned and the applicant may face criminal penalties or imprisonment. The SBA decided to provide a grace period, until May 7th, for ineligible businesses to return loans as part of a safe harbor amnesty program.

If you have any concerns regarding your eligibility of PPP or if you would like to conduct a study to assess your certification and whether the PPP loan was necessary for your business, please feel free to reach out to your partner or our advisory team at advisory@rothcocpa.com.

Deadline extended to May 14.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 11:16:26 AM
@Shua I've been doing some more research on this and to clarify only the grant is deducted from the total PPP forgiveness.
If you received an actual EIDL loan (I haven't personally heard of anyone getting to that step yet) then it has to be rolled into your PPP.

See link below for more info
https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-eidl-together/
Only loans received till April 3 have to be rolled into PPP
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
Wondering what will be for those who receive the EIDL advance after they applied already for the forgiveness on PPP
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 11:20:17 AM
Wondering what will be for those who receive the EIDL advance after they applied already for the forgiveness on PPP

Not sure that's possible. Isn't the EIDL grant program only until 6/30?
You apply for PPP forgiveness 8+ weeks after origination.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 11:25:07 AM
Can an independent contractor who is approved for PPP and will use the finds to cover their paycheck go out and take a new salaried job during those 8 weeks? Any reason someone couldn't be "paid" for their lost 1099 work while simultaneously accepting a new paid position (entirely separate from their 1099 work that they are in fact missing out on...)?

And this question would also apply to additional NEW unrelated 1099 work...

Quote from: Roth&Co email
As a result of further guidelines imposed by the Small Business Administration, a business was eligible for PPP if there is economic uncertainty and the loan was necessary to support the business’ ongoing operations, taking into account its current business activity and its ability to access other sources of liquidity.

Perhaps this answers the question?
For me it raises some more... What if I had no income in the weeks leading up to PPP so I can legitimately certify the above, but in those 8 weeks business picks up? Does the fact that I lost a few weeks of income and need the cash infusion to keep going cover me? Or the fact that I'm earning in those 8 weeks make me ineligible even though I have a payroll gap (and what I earn in those 8 weeks would cover missed payroll and the PPP would cover the actual payroll of those 8 weeks)?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: LAX_Esq on May 06, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Forgiveness question. I'm a single-employee (myself) S-corp, and received $20,800 in funding (i.e., $100K / 12 = $8333 * 2.5).

If I just pay myself $20,800 in salary over the next 8 weeks, am I good to go? I've read various things about not paying any employee more than $8333/month (100K equivalent) being allowed for forgiveness. But I've also read backpay can be forgiven. So can I just pay myself 2.5 months of $8333/mo salary over the next 8 weeks?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 06, 2020, 11:45:49 AM
Perhaps this answers the question?
For me it raises some more... What if I had no income in the weeks leading up to PPP so I can legitimately certify the above, but in those 8 weeks business picks up? Does the fact that I lost a few weeks of income and need the cash infusion to keep going cover me? Or the fact that I'm earning in those 8 weeks make me ineligible even though I have a payroll gap (and what I earn in those 8 weeks would cover missed payroll and the PPP would cover the actual payroll of those 8 weeks)?
My thoughts exactly... I don't want to do the wrong thing and take PPP if I'm not entitled to it due to a new salaried job, but I did miss many weeks and "double-dipping" during the 8 weeks is really just covering for missed weeks prior.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 11:59:01 AM
Forgiveness question. I'm a single-employee (myself) S-corp, and received $20,800 in funding (i.e., $100K / 12 = $8333 * 2.5).

If I just pay myself $20,800 in salary over the next 8 weeks, am I good to go? I've read various things about not paying any employee more than $8333/month (100K equivalent) being allowed for forgiveness. But I've also read backpay can be forgiven. So can I just pay myself 2.5 months of $8333/mo salary over the next 8 weeks?

Got some details for you:

https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-loan-forgiveness/
You are entitled to use the PPP loan to replace lost compensation due to the impacts of COVID-19. However, you are not entitled to use the full amount to replace pay. Eight weeks worth of your 2019 net profit will be eligible for forgiveness.

If you have mortgage interest, rent, or utilities expenses, you must have claimed or be entitled to claim a deduction for those expenses on your 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C in order to claim them for forgiveness.


https://www.nav.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-forgiveness-for-your-paycheck-protection-program-loan-602036/
Owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit … with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit
Payments of interest on mortgage obligations on real or personal property incurred before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business mortgage payments);
Rent payments on lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business rent payments); and
Utility payments under service agreements dated before February 15, 2020 to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business utility payments).

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: LAX_Esq on May 06, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
#894 -- thanks, but neither link answers the question about $100K salary for an S-corp

The portion of the each link that you've quoted is about self-employed, not S-corps.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
Not sure that's possible. Isn't the EIDL grant program only until 6/30?
You apply for PPP forgiveness 8+ weeks after origination.
some ppl were funded already PPP by mid April
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 12:15:16 PM
#894 -- thanks, but neither link answers the question about $100K salary for an S-corp

The portion of the each link that you've quoted is about self-employed, not S-corps.
How did you get paid in 2019? W-2?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 12:30:06 PM
From my Dime banker...


Please lookout for an e-mail from Dime, the underwriters are moving very fast.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: LAX_Esq on May 06, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
How did you get paid in 2019? W-2?

Yes, my corp pays me a W-2 salary -- and any profit is a distribution (K-1). Loan amount is based on the 2019 W-2's. Forgiveness and loan amount have different rules, as we all know.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 12:48:53 PM
Yes, my corp pays me a W-2 salary -- and any profit is a distribution (K-1). Loan amount is based on the 2019 W-2's. Forgiveness and loan amount have different rules, as we all know.
If you had W-2 than I think you can use all for payroll
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
Yes, my corp pays me a W-2 salary -- and any profit is a distribution (K-1). Loan amount is based on the 2019 W-2's. Forgiveness and loan amount have different rules, as we all know.

Not sure what the question is... If you had W2 you're the same as any business and your wages + state and local tax will be potentially forgiven.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: LAX_Esq on May 06, 2020, 12:58:45 PM
Not sure what the question is... If you had W2 you're the same as any business and your wages + state and local tax will be potentially forgiven.

Let me try again... The question is about various things I've read about forgiveness being potentially limited to $100K/yr-equivalent for any employee making $100K+/yr. In other words, I've read stuff (not sure if credible) that, if an employee gets >$100K/yr, only $8333/mo ($100K/12) can be forgiven.

My loan is $20,800. I have 8 weeks to spend that money to get it forgiven. If I pay myself $8333/mo for 8 weeks, that's only $16,666. I want to be able to get the whole amount forgiven. The question is whether I can pay myself the remainder as back pay or something, so long as it's within the 8 week period, and I'm still not breaking any such $8333/month rule.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:11:09 PM
Let me try again... The question is about various things I've read about forgiveness being potentially limited to $100K/yr-equivalent for any employee making $100K+/yr. In other words, I've read stuff (not sure if credible) that, if an employee gets >$100K/yr, only $8333/mo ($100K/12) can be forgiven.

My loan is $20,800. I have 8 weeks to spend that money to get it forgiven. If I pay myself $8333/mo for 8 weeks, that's only $16,666. I want to be able to get the whole amount forgiven. The question is whether I can pay myself the remainder as back pay or something, so long as it's within the 8 week period, and I'm still not breaking any such $8333/month rule.
You are right. Its even less than $16K. will try to find it
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 01:11:14 PM
Let me try again... The question is about various things I've read about forgiveness being potentially limited to $100K/yr-equivalent for any employee making $100K+/yr. In other words, I've read stuff (not sure if credible) that, if an employee gets >$100K/yr, only $8333/mo ($100K/12) can be forgiven.

My loan is $20,800. I have 8 weeks to spend that money to get it forgiven. If I pay myself $8333/mo for 8 weeks, that's only $16,666. I want to be able to get the whole amount forgiven. The question is whether I can pay myself the remainder as back pay or something, so long as it's within the 8 week period, and I'm still not breaking any such $8333/month rule.

Got it.
Rules on forgiveness are still hazy but my understanding is that if you happen to have 3 payroll runs (as per your regular schedule) during those 8 weeks you can count all 3. I did see suggestions that you shouldn't run extra payrolls out of schedule as that could potentially raise red flags.
Note that you can also use 25% or less on rent, utilities, and mortgage interest.

Regarding the exact rules of the 100k:
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions-5-5-20.pdf
7. Question: The CARES Act excludes from the definition of payroll costs any employee compensation in excess of an annual salary of $100,000. Does that exclusion apply to all employee benefits of monetary value?
Answer: No. The exclusion of compensation in excess of $100,000 annually applies only to cash compensation, not to non-cash benefits, including:
 employer contributions to defined-benefit or defined-contribution retirement plans;
 payment for the provision of employee benefits consisting of group health care coverage, including insurance premiums; and
 payment of state and local taxes assessed on compensation of employees.


This might also be helpful:
https://gusto.com/blog/business-finance/ppp-loan-forgiveness
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:12:04 PM
Payroll costs including salary,
wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of
annualized pay per employee (for eight
weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per
individual
),


https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:13:27 PM
8 weeks is less than 2 months thats why its below $16k
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
Payroll costs including salary,
wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of
annualized pay per employee (for eight
weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per
individual
),


https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk

You left out the important bit...

Payroll costs including salary, wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of annualized pay per employee (for eight weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per individual), as well as covered benefits for employees (but not owners), including health care expenses, retirement contributions, and state taxes imposed on employee payroll paid by the employer (such as unemployment insurance premiums)

Regarding the but not owners clause, has anyone managed to get clarification if that means Schedule C only and if on W2 then you qualify as an employee? Of if "owner" means W2 owners as well?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:24:38 PM
You left out the important bit...

Payroll costs including salary, wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of annualized pay per employee (for eight weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per individual), as well as covered benefits for employees (but not owners), including health care expenses, retirement contributions, and state taxes imposed on employee payroll paid by the employer (such as unemployment insurance premiums)

Regarding the but not owners clause, has anyone managed to get clarification if that means Schedule C only and if on W2 then you qualify as an employee? Of if "owner" means W2 owners as well?
I asked it my accountant few days ago and he told me that he tried to do some research but didnt find anymore info on this
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 06, 2020, 01:31:03 PM
Yes, my corp pays me a W-2 salary -- and any profit is a distribution (K-1). Loan amount is based on the 2019 W-2's. Forgiveness and loan amount have different rules, as we all know.
i would say your W2 amount for 8 weeks payroll is forgiven and the rest needs to be on other qualifying categories in order for it to be forgiven.  i dont see why this should have different rules
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: LAX_Esq on May 06, 2020, 01:32:49 PM
Payroll costs including salary,
wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of
annualized pay per employee (for eight
weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per
individual
),


https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk

Thanks for finding that -- very interesting. The next paragraph says:

ii. owner compensation replacement,
calculated based on 2019 net profit as
described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with
forgiveness of such amounts limited to
eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net
profit, but excluding any qualified sick
leave equivalent amount for which a
credit is claimed under section 7002 of
the Families First Coronavirus Response
Act (FFCRA) (Pub. L. 116–127) or
qualified family leave equivalent
amount for which a credit is claimed
under section 7004 of FFCRA;

How does this part even work? Do I pay myself a draw during these 8 weeks and call it owner compensation replacement?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 01:36:13 PM
Thanks for finding that -- very interesting. The next paragraph says:

ii. owner compensation replacement,
calculated based on 2019 net profit as
described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with
forgiveness of such amounts limited to
eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net
profit, but excluding any qualified sick
leave equivalent amount for which a
credit is claimed under section 7002 of
the Families First Coronavirus Response
Act (FFCRA) (Pub. L. 116–127) or
qualified family leave equivalent
amount for which a credit is claimed
under section 7004 of FFCRA;

How does this part even work? Do I pay myself a draw during these 8 weeks and call it owner compensation replacement?

That section corresponds with this:

Got some details for you:

https://bench.co/blog/operations/ppp-loan-forgiveness/
You are entitled to use the PPP loan to replace lost compensation due to the impacts of COVID-19. However, you are not entitled to use the full amount to replace pay. Eight weeks worth of your 2019 net profit will be eligible for forgiveness.

If you have mortgage interest, rent, or utilities expenses, you must have claimed or be entitled to claim a deduction for those expenses on your 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C in order to claim them for forgiveness.


https://www.nav.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-forgiveness-for-your-paycheck-protection-program-loan-602036/
Owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit … with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit
Payments of interest on mortgage obligations on real or personal property incurred before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business mortgage payments);
Rent payments on lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020, to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business rent payments); and
Utility payments under service agreements dated before February 15, 2020 to the extent they are deductible on Form 1040 Schedule C (business utility payments).

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 06, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
Perhaps this answers the question?
For me it raises some more... What if I had no income in the weeks leading up to PPP so I can legitimately certify the above, but in those 8 weeks business picks up? Does the fact that I lost a few weeks of income and need the cash infusion to keep going cover me? Or the fact that I'm earning in those 8 weeks make me ineligible even though I have a payroll gap (and what I earn in those 8 weeks would cover missed payroll and the PPP would cover the actual payroll of those 8 weeks)?

My thoughts exactly... I don't want to do the wrong thing and take PPP if I'm not entitled to it due to a new salaried job, but I did miss many weeks and "double-dipping" during the 8 weeks is really just covering for missed weeks prior.

How about now you’re okay because you have some saving but the near future is very uncertain as business is non - existent now?

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:43:08 PM
Thanks for finding that -- very interesting. The next paragraph says:

ii. owner compensation replacement,
calculated based on 2019 net profit as
described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with
forgiveness of such amounts limited to
eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net
profit, but excluding any qualified sick
leave equivalent amount for which a
credit is claimed under section 7002 of
the Families First Coronavirus Response
Act (FFCRA) (Pub. L. 116–127) or
qualified family leave equivalent
amount for which a credit is claimed
under section 7004 of FFCRA;

How does this part even work? Do I pay myself a draw during these 8 weeks and call it owner compensation replacement?
If you are based on W-2 than you should write yourself a check for the $15,385, Gross income. This is only based on Schedule C I think
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: LAX_Esq on May 06, 2020, 01:46:13 PM
That section corresponds with this:

So this net profit thing is only applicable to Schedule C self employed folks? It's not clear...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:49:52 PM
So this net profit thing is only applicable to Schedule C self employed folks? It's not clear...
I think it is clear. it references to 1.b where they write about Schedule C income. I guess its only for Schedule C Income
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 01:51:18 PM
So this net profit thing is only applicable to Schedule C self employed folks? It's not clear...
ii. owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit as described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit,



i. Step 1: Find your 2019 IRS Form 1040 Schedule C line 31 net profit amount (if you have not yet filed a 2019 return, fill it out and compute the value). If this amount is over $100,000, reduce it to $100,000.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 06, 2020, 01:51:52 PM
How long after kabbage shows that you’ve been approved do you receive loan docs to sign?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 01:56:19 PM
How long after kabbage shows that you’ve been approved do you receive loan docs to sign?

My experience:

Yesterday I called in to check what was going on after having the above for a few days. Rep said she'll forward file to supervisor. A few min later I had my loan docs, and a few min after signing they updated account to note that they disbursed the funds to the account selected.

So I suggest you call just to give the process a push.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 06, 2020, 05:57:17 PM
Are SEP IRA contributions eligible for forgiveness as retirement payroll expenses? Chase counted them for the loan amount.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 06, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Are SEP IRA contributions eligible for forgiveness as retirement payroll expenses? Chase counted them for the loan amount.

https://www.cainwatters.com/digitalblogs/ppp-expenses/
Quote from: cainwatters.com
RETIREMENT PLAN FUNDING
Retirement plan contributions made during the 8-week qualified period are eligible PPP expenses. This includes employer contributions funded to Defined Benefit Plans, Defined Contribution Plans and SEP IRAs.

CWA Interpretation: Because of the lack of current guidance on the PPP forgiveness, it is unclear how much, if any, benefits will be forgiven that are paid to the owner or the owner’s family. In previous guidance, the administration states they desire to “prevent windfalls that Congress did not intend.” It is for this reason we believe the amount of forgivable retirement contributions may be limited. We recommend that you make payments for the employer funding, at a minimum, two times to reflect monthly contributions.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 06, 2020, 06:45:37 PM
My experience:

So I suggest you call just to give the process a push.

Thank you. I did as you said. Just a tip I’ve never got a hold of a rep at kabbage by pressing any number other than 6. So if you’re trying to reach them press 6 & ask them wtvr you need
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 06, 2020, 09:43:31 PM
Dear Applicant,


You are receiving this message as a notification that your Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance application will not be considered at this time. As of May 4, 2020, new applications will only be accepted from Agricultural Businesses due to the availability of appropriations and the unprecedented number of applications SBA has already received for the EIDL COVID-19 program.

We recognize the challenges your business is facing due to the massive disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and will try to assist in other ways. Information on other SBA resources that can support your business during these times, including the Paycheck Protection Program, may be found online at www.sba.gov/coronavirus. We thank you for your understanding.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: safsel on May 06, 2020, 09:51:25 PM
Dear Applicant,


You are receiving this message as a notification that your Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance application will not be considered at this time. As of May 4, 2020, new applications will only be accepted from Agricultural Businesses due to the availability of appropriations and the unprecedented number of applications SBA has already received for the EIDL COVID-19 program.

We recognize the challenges your business is facing due to the massive disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and will try to assist in other ways. Information on other SBA resources that can support your business during these times, including the Paycheck Protection Program, may be found online at www.sba.gov/coronavirus. We thank you for your understanding.

got the same email. frustrated that my accountant told me early on in the process not to apply (when open enrollment was avail the first time around)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SR21 on May 07, 2020, 04:50:21 AM
Did anyone received email notification as "Exceeded SBA application program limit" from Chase? This mean my EIN under review or process with SBA thru different lender or has been approved with different lender?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 07, 2020, 10:35:16 AM
New FAQ released on 5/6. Other than the safe harbor amnesty program to return funds don't see any major changes.
Still no clarity on how FT employees will be calculated. (equivalent FT? FT only?)
https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 07, 2020, 10:36:51 AM
Did anyone received email notification as "Exceeded SBA application program limit" from Chase? This mean my EIN under review or process with SBA thru different lender or has been approved with different lender?
I suggest you move this to the existing SBA thread (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115517.0). You might get some answers there.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SR21 on May 07, 2020, 11:18:28 AM
Thanks CGR
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 07, 2020, 11:50:25 AM
Did anyone received email notification as "Exceeded SBA application program limit" from Chase? This mean my EIN under review or process with SBA thru different lender or has been approved with different lender?

It might mean Chase maxxed their allowance, I think it’s 10% of total PPP funds.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 07, 2020, 11:57:11 AM
Its 10 days since Dime received SBA approval, still no mention of funding.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Shua on May 07, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Zoom conference given by Roth and Co and with opening statements by someone in Aguda.

One of the topics is tuition and parsonage.

https://zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_47bBsIbiROu7j76c6tyMBQ
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SR21 on May 07, 2020, 12:02:57 PM
Thanks AsherO. That might make sense as well.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 07, 2020, 12:40:12 PM
Did anyone received email notification as "Exceeded SBA application program limit" from Chase? This mean my EIN under review or process with SBA thru different lender or has been approved with different lender?

I got the same email. I had already been approved by a different bank.

It might mean Chase maxxed their allowance, I think it’s 10% of total PPP funds.

As of 5/1 the top lender had only  4.6% of the funds. (Doesn't say which bank that was)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 07, 2020, 02:29:14 PM
Its 10 days since Dime received SBA approval, still no mention of funding.
Similar situation. Doesn't sound right.. Has anyone been funded by them yet?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: mgarfin on May 07, 2020, 05:58:52 PM
got the same email. frustrated that my accountant told me early on in the process not to apply (when open enrollment was avail the first time around)

Did you get PPP?

If you did you didn't loss anything
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Abc1234561 on May 07, 2020, 08:49:06 PM
Latest from dime:

We are currently in the process of reviewing daily all the applications submitted and approved by the SBA. There were over 2300 applications & I am sure you understand it is a process that will take more than a few days.
Once I have been notified that your application has cleared review, I will inform you immediately.
While I understand your concern kindly bear with us while we complete out reviews
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 07, 2020, 08:55:53 PM
Bluevine clearly had the most automated process here. Somehow they processed applications from apply all the way through to deposit in record time.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 07, 2020, 10:00:48 PM
Did you get PPP?

If you did you didn't loss anything
Except those who want to receive a loan with low interest rate
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 07, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Latest from dime:

We are currently in the process of reviewing daily all the applications submitted and approved by the SBA. There were over 2300 applications & I am sure you understand it is a process that will take more than a few days.
Once I have been notified that your application has cleared review, I will inform you immediately.
While I understand your concern kindly bear with us while we complete out reviews
But why didnt we hear still from a even one funding???????????? :'(
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 07, 2020, 10:24:54 PM
Has anyone come across any published guidelines for Schedule C forgiveness if the business was a) only in operation for a part of 2019 or b) operational only in 2020?
My assumption would be that the 8/52 rule would not apply to them and they'd be able to use 8/weeks in operation- but would love to see something official. So far my search has yielded no results.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SR21 on May 07, 2020, 10:35:19 PM
Try Bluevine. My loan got denied from Chase after waited since 4/26. Today I applied thru Bluevine around 3.45pm by 4.30pm I got approved from SBA and signed the loan documents via docu sign, now awaiting for the fund to arrive my checking account. Amazing experience with bluevine.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 12:08:29 AM
Try Bluevine. My loan got denied from Chase after waited since 4/26. Today I applied thru Bluevine around 3.45pm by 4.30pm I got approved from SBA and signed the loan documents via docu sign, now awaiting for the fund to arrive my checking account. Amazing experience with bluevine.

Whoa! I applied with BlueVine last week, still waiting...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 12:10:22 AM
Whoa! I applied with BlueVine last week, still waiting...
If you have an SBA number from Dime you definitely won't get approved from Bluevine
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 02:05:10 AM
I know someone who got approved and funded by Paypal on Monday, received now email from Kabbage that his loan was approved by the SBA... weird
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 08, 2020, 07:15:02 AM
I know someone who got approved and funded by Paypal on Monday, received now email from Kabbage that his loan was approved by the SBA... weird

+1 I had a similar situation
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 08, 2020, 12:14:22 PM
As an independent contractor, my accountant recommended that I open a business checking account (I currently use a personal account for paycheck direct deposits)  and have PPP direct deposited into that account. I can then write myself biweekly checks from that account to my personal account (to provide proof for loan forgiveness).

Any recommendations for a business checking account that would work for this purpose? Chase? BOA? Also, while I'm an (unofficial) sole proprietorship, I don't have a business ID number or name aside from using my own name as the business name. Will banks allow me to sign up for a business account using my own name (perhaps followed by the words Sole Proprietorship) if I haven't registered that business name as a DBA?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YossieW on May 08, 2020, 12:27:02 PM
I know someone who got approved and funded by Paypal on Monday, received now email from Kabbage that his loan was approved by the SBA... weird

had similar got approved by Kabbage and just recieved an email from Bluevine that my loan was approved after I requested they cancel the application a couple days ago
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 08, 2020, 12:30:39 PM
As an independent contractor, my accountant recommended that I open a business checking account (I currently use a personal account for paycheck direct deposits)  and have PPP direct deposited into that account. I can then write myself biweekly checks from that account to my personal account (to provide proof for loan forgiveness).

In general it's a good idea to have separate accounts but have your accountant read the rules. Your forgiveness will be 8/52 of your Schedule C and not based on checks you cut.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 08, 2020, 12:34:49 PM
In general it's a good idea to have separate accounts but have your accountant read the rules. Your forgiveness will be 8/52 of your Schedule C and not based on checks you cut.
I thought that too. He told me this morning that it will not be based on 8/52, and that checks can be written for the full loan (over the 8 weeks...). He said the schedule C 8/52 was for them to figure out the loan amount, but that once you do in fact get approved, you can use the full loan for payroll if you choose (for an independent contractor). I didn't think this was the case, but he was adamant.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 08, 2020, 12:45:05 PM
I thought that too. He told me this morning that it will not be based on 8/52, and that checks can be written for the full loan (over the 8 weeks...). He said the schedule C 8/52 was for them to figure out the loan amount, but that once you do in fact get approved, you can use the full loan for payroll if you choose (for an independent contractor). I didn't think this was the case, but he was adamant.

Have him read these:

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk
Quote
f. What amounts shall be eligible for forgiveness?
The amount of loan forgiveness can be up to the full principal amount of the loan plus accrued interest. The actual amount of loan forgiveness will depend, in part, on the total amount spent over the covered period on:
i. ....
ii. owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit as described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit...

https://www.uschamber.com/report/independent-contractors-guide-cares-act-relief
Quote
5. Will this loan be forgiven?
Borrowers are eligible to have some or all of their loan forgiven.

How much?
An amount equal to how much you spent in the eight weeks following receipt of the loan for:

Owner compensation replacement, but not to exceed eight weeks of your 2019 compensation up to $100,000 (8/52 of the 2019 net profit up to $100,000)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 12:47:38 PM
I thought that too. He told me this morning that it will not be based on 8/52, and that checks can be written for the full loan (over the 8 weeks...). He said the schedule C 8/52 was for them to figure out the loan amount, but that once you do in fact get approved, you can use the full loan for payroll if you choose (for an independent contractor). I didn't think this was the case, but he was adamant.

f. What amounts shall be eligible for forgiveness? The amount of loan forgiveness can be up to the full principal amount of the loan plus accrued interest. The actual amount of loan forgiveness will depend, in part, on the total amount spent over the covered period on:
 ii. owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit as described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit, but excluding any qualified sick leave equivalent amount for which a credit is claimed under section 7002 of the Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA) (Pub. L. 116–127) or qualified family leave equivalent amount for which a credit is claimed under section 7004 of FFCRA;

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk

Please let us know if your accountant has a source..
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 08, 2020, 12:53:06 PM
Based on these rules it seems that Sole Props/1099 are more likely to have a few dollars unforgivable that will need to be repaid, unlike W2 loans which seemingly will be able to get 100% forgiven more easily.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 08, 2020, 12:59:55 PM
Based on these rules it seems that Sole Props/1099 are more likely to have a few dollars unforgivable that will need to be repaid, unlike W2 loans which seemingly will be able to get 100% forgiven more easily.
If they don't have rent and utilities.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 01:03:02 PM
If they don't have rent and utilities.
If hey didn't have it by Feb 15 even if they have now...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 08, 2020, 01:11:00 PM
If they don't have rent and utilities.

Even if they do they'll probably need to return some, because that's capped at 25%.
If you're calculating 8/52 for Schedule C for forgiveness, but calculated 2.5/12 for loan, you'll have about 1% of your loan leftover that should go towards your 75% of payroll, but is capped and therefore can't be used.

The only way to get around this (I think) is if you have healthcare/other benefit costs that you can include in the 75% but is not part of the 8/52 cap.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 01:13:23 PM
Even if they do they'll probably need to return some, because that's capped at 25%.
If you're calculating 8/52 for Schedule C for forgiveness, but calculated 2.5/12 for loan, you'll have about 1% of your loan leftover that should go towards your 75% of payroll, but is capped and therefore can't be used.

The only way to get around this (I think) is if you have healthcare/other benefit costs that you can include in the 75% but is not part of the 8/52 cap.
Payroll costs including salary,
wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of
annualized pay per employee (for eight
weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per
individual), as well as covered benefits
for employees (but not owners),
including health care expenses,
retirement contributions, and state taxes
imposed on employee payroll paid by
the employer (such as unemployment
insurance premiums);
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Even if they do they'll probably need to return some, because that's capped at 25%.
If you're calculating 8/52 for Schedule C for forgiveness, but calculated 2.5/12 for loan, you'll have about 1% of your loan leftover that should go towards your 75% of payroll, but is capped and therefore can't be used.

The only way to get around this (I think) is if you have healthcare/other benefit costs that you can include in the 75% but is not part of the 8/52 cap.
What will happen if Schedule C application changes now to W-2 income, will he be able to claim 100%?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 08, 2020, 01:25:37 PM
Even if they do they'll probably need to return some, because that's capped at 25%.
If you're calculating 8/52 for Schedule C for forgiveness, but calculated 2.5/12 for loan, you'll have about 1% of your loan leftover that should go towards your 75% of payroll, but is capped and therefore can't be used.

The only way to get around this (I think) is if you have healthcare/other benefit costs that you can include in the 75% but is not part of the 8/52 cap.
Was wondering the same. 8/52 comes out to slightly less than 75% of the loan. If no rent, utilities, or healthcare costs associated with the business, how would one even get to 75%?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 08, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
Payroll costs including salary,
wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of
annualized pay per employee (for eight
weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per
individual), as well as covered benefits
for employees (but not owners),
including health care expenses,
retirement contributions, and state taxes
imposed on employee payroll paid by
the employer (such as unemployment
insurance premiums);

Would this also be for an S-corp owner who recieves a W2?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 01:34:06 PM
Would this also be for an S-corp owner who recieves a W2?
We all have same question...
No clear guidance on this
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 08, 2020, 01:42:31 PM
In general it's a good idea to have separate accounts but have your accountant read the rules. Your forgiveness will be 8/52 of your Schedule C and not based on checks you cut.
+1
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 08, 2020, 01:47:03 PM
Payroll costs including salary,
wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of
annualized pay per employee (for eight
weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per
individual), as well as covered benefits
for employees (but not owners),
including health care expenses,
retirement contributions, and state taxes
imposed on employee payroll paid by
the employer (such as unemployment
insurance premiums);

No clarity yet on what that means... if it's deductible on Schedule C is it included? So far Schedule C deductions seem to dictate what is considered forgivable and what is not... hopefully we'll get more clarity from the SBA soon.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 08, 2020, 01:50:24 PM
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Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 02:10:09 PM
I thought that too. He told me this morning that it will not be based on 8/52, and that checks can be written for the full loan (over the 8 weeks...). He said the schedule C 8/52 was for them to figure out the loan amount, but that once you do in fact get approved, you can use the full loan for payroll if you choose (for an independent contractor). I didn't think this was the case, but he was adamant.

What your accountant says doesn’t matter, it’s all  about what your banks will require for forgiveness in your scenario. They’re the ones who’ll be signing off on it, I don’t think the SBA will be reviewing documents for every single forgiveness request.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 02:41:55 PM
Heard now from big heimish company with few hunderd employees, received 2M+ in PPP, returning it due to updated guidelines from SBA. I think in the end they will stay over with a lot of money
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 02:52:10 PM
Heard now from big heimish company with few hunderd employees, received 2M+ in PPP, returning it due to updated guidelines from SBA. I think in the end they will stay over with a lot of money

Something add up. Isn’t this designed for them?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 02:58:33 PM
Based on these rules it seems that Sole Props/1099 are more likely to have a few dollars unforgivable that will need to be repaid, unlike W2 loans which seemingly will be able to get 100% forgiven more easily.

A few dollars? 8/52 is much less than the 2.5x monthly. It’s like 74%. How is that fair?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 08, 2020, 03:03:04 PM
A few dollars? 8/52 is much less than the 2.5x monthly. It’s like 74%. How is that fair?

Even if they do they'll probably need to return some, because that's capped at 25%.
If you're calculating 8/52 for Schedule C for forgiveness, but calculated 2.5/12 for loan, you'll have about 1% of your loan leftover that should go towards your 75% of payroll, but is capped and therefore can't be used.

The only way to get around this (I think) is if you have healthcare/other benefit costs that you can include in the 75% but is not part of the 8/52 cap.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 03:08:30 PM


But the healthcare costs suggestion would only work if I told my lender about it when I applied, no?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 08, 2020, 03:08:41 PM
Something add up. Isn’t this designed for them?
I guess they probably weren't affected from this situation. Some industries improved sales...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 03:09:52 PM
I guess they probably weren't affected from this situation. Some industries improved sales...

They don’t need to be affected, they just have to verify something vague about economic uncertainty and supporting ongoing business operations.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 08, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
They don’t need to be affected, they just have to verify something vague about economic uncertainty and supporting ongoing business operations.
If for example you are a medical supplier and your business sales only went up now, you will have a hard time proving that you were eligible for the loan if you go into audit. So they give it back.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 08, 2020, 03:12:26 PM
Try Bluevine. My loan got denied from Chase after waited since 4/26. Today I applied thru Bluevine around 3.45pm by 4.30pm I got approved from SBA and signed the loan documents via docu sign, now awaiting for the fund to arrive my checking account. Amazing experience with bluevine.

Thanks to you and all those who encouraged me to call Bluevine, I got approved today and am already signed and funded (ACH supposedly on the way).

Still have a pending application with Dime who claims I got SBA approval but is dragging their feet with underwriting and a pending application with Kabbage.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 03:15:50 PM
Something add up. Isn’t this designed for them?
If they weren't effected too bad and you have no liquidity issues than you aren't eligible
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 08, 2020, 03:17:42 PM
Thanks to you and all those who encouraged me to call Bluevine, I got approved today and am already signed and funded (ACH supposedly on the way).

Still have a pending application with Dime who claims I got SBA approval but is dragging their feet with underwriting and a pending application with Kabbage.
WOW
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 08, 2020, 03:45:51 PM
As an independent contractor, my accountant recommended that I open a business checking account (I currently use a personal account for paycheck direct deposits)  and have PPP direct deposited into that account. I can then write myself biweekly checks from that account to my personal account (to provide proof for loan forgiveness).

Any recommendations for a business checking account that would work for this purpose? Chase? BOA? Also, while I'm an (unofficial) sole proprietorship, I don't have a business ID number or name aside from using my own name as the business name. Will banks allow me to sign up for a business account using my own name (perhaps followed by the words Sole Proprietorship) if I haven't registered that business name as a DBA?
Any thoughts about the second half of the above? Can I open a business account with, say, Chase, and click on Sole Proprietorship (even though I never registered my business in any way, or registered a DBA)? And if so, what am I allowed to call it aside from just my name? 
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 09, 2020, 10:57:18 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/sba-veered-from-guidelines-on-small-business-loans-report-says-11588971101
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Loan%205.9.20_0.pdf
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/EIDL%20COVID-19%20Advance%205.8.20_0.pdf
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 09, 2020, 11:58:48 PM
Even if they do they'll probably need to return some, because that's capped at 25%.
If you're calculating 8/52 for Schedule C for forgiveness, but calculated 2.5/12 for loan, you'll have about 1% of your loan leftover that should go towards your 75% of payroll, but is capped and therefore can't be used.

The only way to get around this (I think) is if you have healthcare/other benefit costs that you can include in the 75% but is not part of the 8/52 cap.

I think it's still up in the air. Did the SBA release their IFR on forgiveness? If it hasn't come out yet, things might still change.

My guess is, just like approval for the loan, that it will vary by lender. Bluevine is making me hopeful I can get 100% forgiveness if 25% is for qualifying expenses (rent/utilities etc)

https://bluevine.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042679731-Loan-Forgiveness-Sole-Proprietors
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 12:05:51 AM
Another interesting PPP tidbit/source I didn't see shared here:

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program#section-header-11

As of 5pm today only $187mm of round 2 PPP funds have been disbursed (loans approved). This means 40% of round 2 funds are still available...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: dovy2 on May 10, 2020, 12:14:56 AM
random question. was approved for 60k loan at 2.5 for 30yrs, differed first 12 months.
don't really have any specific need for it right now... an idea popped up in my head, and want to hear others' thoughts.
what do you think about using the money to buy a minivan (until now we've been leasing).. would that be allowed according to the rules?
we've been having a hard time getting approved (most banks dont like biz lease applications)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 12:38:44 AM
random question. was approved for 60k loan at 2.5 for 30yrs, differed first 12 months.
don't really have any specific need for it right now... an idea popped up in my head, and want to hear others' thoughts.
what do you think about using the money to buy a minivan (until now we've been leasing).. would that be allowed according to the rules?
we've been having a hard time getting approved (most banks dont like biz lease applications)

Sounds like EIDL loan, well done.

Keep in mind if you get a PPP the EIDL gets rolled into that and you have to repay it within 2 years.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 10, 2020, 01:12:31 AM
random question. was approved for 60k loan at 2.5 for 30yrs, differed first 12 months.
don't really have any specific need for it right now... an idea popped up in my head, and want to hear others' thoughts.
what do you think about using the money to buy a minivan (until now we've been leasing).. would that be allowed according to the rules?
we've been having a hard time getting approved (most banks dont like biz lease applications)
On What was based the amount of the loan? When did you apply? When did you get approved? Which docs did they require? Thanks
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 10, 2020, 01:14:21 AM
I think it's still up in the air. Did the SBA release their IFR on forgiveness? If it hasn't come out yet, things might still change.

My guess is, just like approval for the loan, that it will vary by lender. Bluevine is making me hopeful I can get 100% forgiveness if 25% is for qualifying expenses (rent/utilities etc)

https://bluevine.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042679731-Loan-Forgiveness-Sole-Proprietors
I didn't see anywhere that Schedule C won't be able to use the 25% for other expenses, they only limited the payroll amount to 8/52 but other expenses if you have than it is forgivable.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 10, 2020, 01:18:30 AM
I didn't see anywhere that Schedule C won't be able to use the 25% for other expenses, they only limited the payroll amount to 8/52 but other expenses if you have than it is forgivable.
The issue is that 8/52 is only 74%. That leaves you with 1% to 26% unforgivable.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 10, 2020, 01:23:54 AM
The issue is that 8/52 is only 74%. That leaves you with 1% to 26% unforgivable.
In the link from Bluevine ther is no mention about the 1%. It says 8 weeks of payroll (which is 73.85%) +25% for other expenses
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 10, 2020, 01:28:07 AM
In the link from Bluevine ther is no mention about the 1%. It says 8 weeks of payroll (which is 73.85%) +25% for other expenses
The issue is that those who don't have any other expenses only reach 73.85%, below the 75% threshold...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 06:34:26 AM
I didn't see anywhere that Schedule C won't be able to use the 25% for other expenses, they only limited the payroll amount to 8/52 but other expenses if you have than it is forgivable.

I’m confused by this because for other (more typical?) PPP scenarios, e.g. S-corp or LLC with W2 employees, they have to spend at least 75% of the loan amount on payroll, why is this different for sole proprietors?

At some point I was under the impression that if a business spent the “at least75%” on payroll, the entire loan would be forgiven, was I mistaken?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 10, 2020, 09:03:33 AM
Some are saying that as part of the sole prop Schedule C owner compensation replacement rule, you are allowed to reach 100k before having to worry about other expenses. So if your schedule C is less than 100k you can give yourself a "raise" in the 8 week period to allow for forgiveness on the entire loan amount regardless of what it's spent on.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 10, 2020, 09:13:04 AM
The Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary, has determined that it is appropriate to limit the forgiveness of owner compensation replacement for individuals with self-employment income who file a Schedule C to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit. This is most consistent with the structure of the Act and its overarching focus on keeping workers paid, and will prevent windfalls that Congress did not intend. Congress determined that the maximum loan amount is based on 2.5 months of the borrower’s payroll during the one-year period preceding the loan. Congress also determined that the maximum amount of loan forgiveness is based on the borrower’s eligible payments—i.e., the sum of payroll costs and certain overhead expenses—over the eight-week period following the date of loan disbursement. For individuals with self-employment income who file a Schedule C, the Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary, has determined that it is appropriate to limit loan forgiveness to a proportionate eight-week share of 2019 net profit, as reflected in the individual’s 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C. This is because many self-employed individuals have few of the overhead expenses that qualify for forgiveness under the Act. For example, many such individuals operate out of either their homes, vehicles, or sheds and thus do not incur qualifying mortgage interest, rent, or utility payments. As a result, most of their receipts will constitute net income. Allowing such a self-employed individual to treat the full amount of a PPP loan as net income would result in a windfall. The entire amount of the PPP loan (a maximum of 2.5 times monthly payroll costs) would be forgiven even though Congress designed this program to limit forgiveness to certain eligible expenses incurred in an eight-week covered period. Limiting forgiveness to eight weeks of net profit from the owner’s 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C is consistent with the structure of the Act, which provides for loan forgiveness based on eight weeks of expenditures. This limitation will also help to ensure that the finite appropriations are directed toward payroll protection, consistent with the Act’s central objective. Finally, 75 percent of the amount forgiven must be attributable to payroll costs for the reasons specified in the First PPP Interim Final Rule.


Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 09:15:41 AM
The Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary, has determined that it is appropriate to limit the forgiveness of owner compensation replacement for individuals with self-employment income who file a Schedule C to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit. This is most consistent with the structure of the Act and its overarching focus on keeping workers paid, and will prevent windfalls that Congress did not intend. Congress determined that the maximum loan amount is based on 2.5 months of the borrower’s payroll during the one-year period preceding the loan. Congress also determined that the maximum amount of loan forgiveness is based on the borrower’s eligible payments—i.e., the sum of payroll costs and certain overhead expenses—over the eight-week period following the date of loan disbursement. For individuals with self-employment income who file a Schedule C, the Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary, has determined that it is appropriate to limit loan forgiveness to a proportionate eight-week share of 2019 net profit, as reflected in the individual’s 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C. This is because many self-employed individuals have few of the overhead expenses that qualify for forgiveness under the Act. For example, many such individuals operate out of either their homes, vehicles, or sheds and thus do not incur qualifying mortgage interest, rent, or utility payments. As a result, most of their receipts will constitute net income. Allowing such a self-employed individual to treat the full amount of a PPP loan as net income would result in a windfall. The entire amount of the PPP loan (a maximum of 2.5 times monthly payroll costs) would be forgiven even though Congress designed this program to limit forgiveness to certain eligible expenses incurred in an eight-week covered period. Limiting forgiveness to eight weeks of net profit from the owner’s 2019 Form 1040 Schedule C is consistent with the structure of the Act, which provides for loan forgiveness based on eight weeks of expenditures. This limitation will also help to ensure that the finite appropriations are directed toward payroll protection, consistent with the Act’s central objective. Finally, 75 percent of the amount forgiven must be attributable to payroll costs for the reasons specified in the First PPP Interim Final Rule.

Thanks for the quote and the highlights, source for context?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 09:16:20 AM
Some are saying that as part of the sole prop Schedule C owner compensation replacement rule, you are allowed to reach 100k before having to worry about other expenses. So if your schedule C is less than 100k you can give yourself a "raise" in the 8 week period to allow for forgiveness on the entire loan amount regardless of what it's spent on.

That would be nice. My guess is some lenders might let this fly (maybe due to their ignorance).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 10, 2020, 09:28:25 AM
Thanks for the quote and the highlights, source for context?
https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk

But you posted yesterday that the Inspector general criticized this rule, maybe it will change
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 10, 2020, 10:04:23 AM
Was there a way to get the loan for lower than what you’re eligible for? Meaning if as a sole prop I can only get 75% of the total (8/52) forgiven for payroll (owner comp replacement) then the remaining 25% I’d rather not get at all, because I’m not sure I’ll have documented expenses that they will be looking for.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 10, 2020, 10:55:12 AM
Was there a way to get the loan for lower than what you’re eligible for? Meaning if as a sole prop I can only get 75% of the total (8/52) forgiven for payroll (owner comp replacement) then the remaining 25% I’d rather not get at all, because I’m not sure I’ll have documented expenses that they will be looking for.

Take 100% and repay 25% ASAP? Or put it in a high-yield savings account and make a bit?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Hjay on May 10, 2020, 09:53:31 PM
Take 100% and repay 25% ASAP? Or put it in a high-yield savings account and make a bit?

True. But with all this confusion about only being able to use 75% for payroll & 8/52 not actually being 75% it would be a lot easier to just get a loan for 8/52 
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 11, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
True. But with all this confusion about only being able to use 75% for payroll & 8/52 not actually being 75% it would be a lot easier to just get a loan for 8/52
Its a little confusing.. The max a self employed can receive from PPP is $20K. 25% of it is $5K. 1% Interest A YEAR on $5k is $50. So what exactly is your concern? That you will have to pay $11.32 interest??????
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 11, 2020, 01:38:27 AM
I think one of the concerns is not hitting the 75% (only getting to 74%) if you don't have other expenses. Meaning why take a larger loan you don't need and won't get forgiven if it will cause you problems with 8/52?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 11, 2020, 06:47:44 AM
I think one of the concerns is not hitting the 75% (only getting to 74%) if you don't have other expenses. Meaning why take a larger loan you don't need and won't get forgiven if it will cause you problems with 8/52?

The 8/52 rule contradicts the “you have to spend 75% on payroll for forgiveness” law (I’m sure  it’s written differently in legalese but you know what I mean). It’s bad enough they’re only forgiving 73-74% for independent contractors, but they can’t make a rule like that and then deny forgiveness, it will piss too many people off and is defies the whole spirit of the law (as well as it’s letter as indicated above).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 11, 2020, 09:23:16 AM
The 8/52 rule contradicts the “you have to spend 75% on payroll for forgiveness” law (I’m sure  it’s written differently in legalese but you know what I mean). It’s bad enough they’re only forgiving 73-74% for independent contractors, but they can’t make a rule like that and then deny forgiveness, it will piss too many people off and is defies the whole spirit of the law (as well as it’s letter as indicated above).
Agreed. So you think that there will end up being forgiveness even if it's 73-74%? Or do you think they won't be strict on 8/52? My accountant thinks the latter, even though they are writing the opposite. Who knows...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 11, 2020, 09:33:19 AM
Agreed. So you think that there will end up being forgiveness even if it's 73-74%? Or do you think they won't be strict on 8/52? My accountant thinks the latter, even though they are writing the opposite. Who knows...
There is no such rule. The rule Whatever you spend on payroll is forgiven, If its 20% 50% or 70% or 100%. Just if you spend only 50% on payroll, the other part wont be forgive only up to 25% of payroll amount. Another rule is that self employed can only use 8/52 on payroll but again, whatever you spend on payroll, w-2 up to 100% SE up to 8/52 is forgiven, no matter what you do with other part
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 11, 2020, 09:39:16 AM
There is no such rule. The rule Whatever you spend on payroll is forgiven, If its 20% 50% or 70% or 100%. Just if you spend only 50% on payroll, the other part wont be forgive only up to 25% of payroll amount. Another rule is that self employed can only use 8/52 on payroll but again, whatever you spend on payroll, w-2 up to 100% SE up to 8/52 is forgiven, no matter what you do with other part
Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 11, 2020, 10:20:29 AM
Any advice how to get through to Kabbage? They keep ending my call while on hold because of the "high call volume." I want to change my DD info but the website says the only way to do that is to call.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 11, 2020, 10:28:55 AM
Agreed. So you think that there will end up being forgiveness even if it's 73-74%? Or do you think they won't be strict on 8/52? My accountant thinks the latter, even though they are writing the opposite. Who knows...

I strongly think it will YMMV with different banks doing things differently.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 11, 2020, 11:17:55 AM
Any advice how to get through to Kabbage? They keep ending my call while on hold because of the "high call volume." I want to change my DD info but the website says the only way to do that is to call.

Thank you. I did as you said. Just a tip I’ve never got a hold of a rep at kabbage by pressing any number other than 6. So if you’re trying to reach them press 6 & ask them wtvr you need
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 11, 2020, 03:32:13 PM

Thanks! I tried that and actually did get through to an agent eventually, but she couldn't help me and needed to transfer me to the department that could. Aaaaand then was on hold again until they disconnected me, telling me that the call volume was too high... Back to square one.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: bubkiz on May 11, 2020, 03:46:14 PM
I had luck on Friday calling 888-313-4078. Got through to rep after 5 mins of hold time who actually was able to help. It may help to commiserate with them. They are overwhelmed and the agent said he got plenty of verbal abuse from other callers.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 11, 2020, 04:02:56 PM
Just saw this from a payroll company:

Quote
Here’s a heads-up for clients who receive CARES Act SBA loans under the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP). Under the Act, the amount of PPP loan forgiveness is based in part on the amount your company incurs and pays within the 8-week period commencing with the date you received your PPP funds (Covered Period), not the date of loan approval, for payroll costs and qualifying rent, mortgage interest, and utilities payments (subject to limitations).

Since the law states that expenses must be incurred and paid during the Covered Period, current issues to discuss with your legal counsel/tax advisor include:

Your first payroll after your PPP loan distribution may include portions that were incurred prior to the Covered Period and therefore may need to be subtracted out to calculate your total loan forgiveness.

Plan to pay all qualifying amounts incurred during your Covered Period before the end of your 8-week Covered Period. This may require a special off-cycle (nonscheduled) payroll with a check date on the last day of your Covered Period.

It is also likely the SBA will not permit prepayment of payroll for periods after the Covered Period, since such costs would not be incurred during the Covered Period.

Future SBA guidance may provide additional clarification in these areas.

Still waiting to hear how the SBA will rule on those, but if they follow the above W2 employers with the same payroll costs as 2019 will find themselves having the same issue as Sole props who are limited to 8/52 of their Schedule C.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 11, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
I had luck on Friday calling 888-313-4078. Got through to rep after 5 mins of hold time who actually was able to help. It may help to commiserate with them. They are overwhelmed and the agent said he got plenty of verbal abuse from other callers.
This number worked - thanks so much!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 12, 2020, 02:55:13 AM
Anyoe here with an update from Dime? This whole dime thing stinks to high heaven..
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 12, 2020, 02:57:08 AM
Anyoe here with an update from Dime? This whole dime thing stinks to high heaven..
+1000
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 12, 2020, 06:56:34 AM
Anyoe here with an update from Dime? This whole dime thing stinks to high heaven..

Not too late to apply through BlueVine...

In other news, BlueVine sent an email about forgiveness, wrote what they know so far, and we’re very clear that they’re still waiting for further guidance from the SBA to clarify things about forgiveness.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 12, 2020, 12:16:24 PM
Not too late to apply through BlueVine...

In other news, BlueVine sent an email about forgiveness, wrote what they know so far, and we’re very clear that they’re still waiting for further guidance from the SBA to clarify things about forgiveness.
Applied now by BlueVine, will keep posted
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 12, 2020, 12:36:34 PM
I'm grappling with one specific PPP loan that I applied for which is up to the docusign stage - whether I should take it or not. There's very clear language that 1099s are not included in Payroll when a business is applying and only counts for the sole prop themselves if they apply for a loan.

I believe in the very beginning this was unclear but I don't know if there was specific language stating that it's allowed.

I was approved on an application for a business that consisted solely of a single 1099 paid out to someone and I'm trying to figure out if there's a way I can justify accepting it and obtaining forgiveness. Unless I have something substantial to fall back on I'm going to just let it go.

Anyone have experience with this?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 12, 2020, 12:45:05 PM
I'm grappling with one specific PPP loan that I applied for which is up to the docusign stage - whether I should take it or not. There's very clear language that 1099s are not included in Payroll when a business is applying and only counts for the sole prop themselves if they apply for a loan.

I believe in the very beginning this was unclear but I don't know if there was specific language stating that it's allowed.

I was approved on an application for a business that consisted solely of a single 1099 paid out to someone and I'm trying to figure out if there's a way I can justify accepting it and obtaining forgiveness. Unless I have something substantial to fall back on I'm going to just let it go.

Anyone have experience with this?

https://www.sba.com/funding-a-business/government-small-business-loans/ppp/faq/contractors-included-payroll-calculations-ppp/

Above link states a very clear no.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

15. Question: Should payments that an eligible borrower made to an independent contractor or sole proprietor be included in calculations of the eligible borrower’s payroll costs?
Answer: No. Any amounts that an eligible borrower has paid to an independent contractor or sole proprietor should be excluded from the eligible business’s payroll costs. However, an independent contractor or sole proprietor will itself be eligible for a loan under the PPP, if it satisfies the applicable requirements.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 12, 2020, 12:46:37 PM
https://www.sba.com/funding-a-business/government-small-business-loans/ppp/faq/contractors-included-payroll-calculations-ppp/

Above link states a very clear no.

Correct, I mentioned this above. But was there different language that proceeded this?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 12, 2020, 12:52:55 PM
Correct, I mentioned this above. But was there different language that proceeded this?

*preceded
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 12, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Correct, I mentioned this above. But was there different language that proceeded this?

Discussed here:
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

Question: I filed or approved a loan application based on the version of the PPP Interim
Final Rule published on April 2, 2020. Do I need to take any action based on the updated
guidance in these FAQs?
Answer: No. Borrowers and lenders may rely on the laws, rules, and guidance available
at the time of the relevant application. However, borrowers whose previously submitted
loan applications have not yet been processed may revise their applications based on
clarifications reflected in these FAQs.


Only applicable to loans originated prior to April 2, and that's not you so I wouldn't go for it if I was you...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 12, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Discussed here:
Only applicable to loans originated prior to April 2, and that's not you so I wouldn't go for it if I was you...

lol, I did not miss it by much. Applied on 4/6. Thanks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 12, 2020, 01:12:42 PM
lol, I did not miss it by much. Applied on 4/6. Thanks.

Read it again.
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions_05%2003%2020.pdf

Question: I filed or approved a loan application based on the version of the PPP Interim
Final Rule published on April 2, 2020. Do I need to take any action based on the updated
guidance in these FAQs?
Answer: No. Borrowers and lenders may rely on the laws, rules, and guidance available
at the time of the relevant application. However, borrowers whose previously submitted
loan applications have not yet been processed may revise their applications based on
clarifications reflected in these FAQs.

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 12, 2020, 01:14:26 PM
Read it again.

I saw. Thanks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on May 12, 2020, 01:20:10 PM
Was anyone able to get through to Kabbage?

I signed loan docs last week, it said I should see the funds in my account by May 12th, yet nothing as of today. A friend signed a couple of hours after me, got the same message, and got funds this past Friday (the 8th).
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 12, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
Was anyone able to get through to Kabbage?

I signed loan docs last week, it said I should see the funds in my account by May 12th, yet nothing as of today. A friend signed a couple of hours after me, got the same message, and got funds this past Friday (the 8th).
This is the only number (of many I tried) that worked for me.  888-313-4078
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on May 12, 2020, 01:52:20 PM
This is the only number (of many I tried) that worked for me.  888-313-4078

TYVM. Actually speaking to someone now!

 >:( Not much use. Seems like a total waste of time. Just spitting back whatever dashboard says, whether it makes sense or not.

Waiting to be escalated.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 12, 2020, 01:55:32 PM
I'm grappling with one specific PPP loan that I applied for which is up to the docusign stage - whether I should take it or not. There's very clear language that 1099s are not included in Payroll when a business is applying and only counts for the sole prop themselves if they apply for a loan.

I believe in the very beginning this was unclear but I don't know if there was specific language stating that it's allowed.

I was approved on an application for a business that consisted solely of a single 1099 paid out to someone and I'm trying to figure out if there's a way I can justify accepting it and obtaining forgiveness. Unless I have something substantial to fall back on I'm going to just let it go.

Anyone have experience with this?

1. If the bank issues you the loan it’s unlikely you’ll have claims against you that you applied fraudulently.
2. Forgiveness might or might not be possible, it’s still a 2 year loan at 1% with a six month deferral on payments.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 12, 2020, 02:09:08 PM
I'm grappling with one specific PPP loan that I applied for which is up to the docusign stage - whether I should take it or not. There's very clear language that 1099s are not included in Payroll when a business is applying and only counts for the sole prop themselves if they apply for a loan.

I'm assuming it's the same if an S corp owner sent himself a 1099 for 2019, or does the salary have to be a W2?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on May 12, 2020, 02:11:15 PM
3. Even if you don’t get forgiveness, it’s a six-month interest-free loan
Source?

Payments are deferred for 6 months, but where does it say that interest isn't accrued/charged for those 6 months?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 12, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
I'm assuming it's the same if an S corp owner sent himself a 1099 for 2019, or does the salary have to be a W2?

If an S Corp owner sent himself a 1099 he should apply under his own name with the 1099 instead of applying via the S Corp.
Doesn't have to be W2 wages, although S Corps are more tricky. Individuals with 1099s are a bit simpler.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 12, 2020, 03:00:27 PM
Not too late to apply through BlueVine...

In other news, BlueVine sent an email about forgiveness, wrote what they know so far, and we’re very clear that they’re still waiting for further guidance from the SBA to clarify things about forgiveness.
We have given Applicant's request careful consideration, and regret that we are unable to extend
credit to Applicant at this time for the following reason(s):
1. Your application was rejected due to a duplicate tax ID, which indicates you have submitted an
application with more than one lender and the other lender is preparing to offer you a loan.
Receiving this rejection does not preclude you from approval from the other lender.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 12, 2020, 04:04:35 PM
Have you applied anywhere else besides dime?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 12, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
Have you applied anywhere else besides dime?
This is a BlueVine denial because of Dime's approval, I don't know how @AsherO managed to receive approval after DIMEs approval
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 12, 2020, 04:29:57 PM
This is a BlueVine denial because of Dime's approval, I don't know how @AsherO managed to receive approval after DIMEs approval
i also got approved by Kabbage after Dime's verbal approval
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 12, 2020, 04:38:45 PM
i also got approved by Kabbage after Dime's verbal approval
I was denied by Kabbage, and Paypal.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 12, 2020, 04:54:53 PM
Source?

Payments are deferred for 6 months, but where does it say that interest isn't accrued/charged for those 6 months?

You’re right, it’s 1% for those six months as well. Will edit my original post accordingly.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 12, 2020, 04:55:11 PM
This is a BlueVine denial because of Dime's approval, I don't know how @AsherO managed to receive approval after DIMEs approval

Not sure, maybe it’s not consistent
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on May 12, 2020, 05:27:12 PM
You’re right, it’s 1% for those six months as well. Will edit my original post accordingly.

At 1% per annum, I'll take as much as I can get my hands on. And with deferred payments, I'll double up on that.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Ergel on May 12, 2020, 07:16:13 PM
At 1% per annum, I'll take as much as I can get my hands on. And with deferred payments, I'll double up on that.
Yup, my dad was going to take the money whether he hired his workers back or not. It's a win either way.
Either 25% free money. Or a (basically) free 2 year loan
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 12, 2020, 07:19:14 PM
Yup, my dad was going to take the money whether he hired his workers back or not. It's a win either way.
Either 25% free money. Or a (basically) free 2 year loan

Wasn't that the whole idea of the safe harbor amnesty program? I'm not so sure they won't only not be eligible for forgiveness, they might run into issues for having taken the loan in the first place.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 12, 2020, 07:24:07 PM
Wasn't that the whole idea of the safe harbor amnesty program? I'm not so sure they won't only not be eligible for forgiveness, they might run into issues for having taken the loan in the first place.

Safe harbor was for abuse, or at least for companies who certified they needed it in bad faith. Not for an employer who will borrow to be able to pay his employees, but it’s still a win for him if it doesn’t get forgiven.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 12, 2020, 07:46:08 PM
Safe harbor was for abuse, or at least for companies who certified they needed it in bad faith. Not for an employer who will borrow to be able to pay his employees, but it’s still a win for him if it doesn’t get forgiven.

Referring to those who are taking it on 1099 subs basis, or not planning to rehire their employees at all.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: A3 on May 13, 2020, 10:24:07 AM
Anybody know the process to return the PPP loan? Deadline is tomorrow I think. BOA if it makes a diff
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 13, 2020, 11:40:25 AM
Dime just sent me docs.  lolol.  i have funds from Kabbage since last week
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 13, 2020, 11:52:05 AM
Dime just sent me docs.  lolol.  i have funds from Kabbage since last week

There's no legal way to accept both loans (even if I only get one of them forgiven), right?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 13, 2020, 01:09:26 PM
New FAQ was released. Very disappointed as it fails to answer most of the questions out there...

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf

Quote from: treasury.gov
20. Question: The amount of forgiveness of a PPP loan depends on the borrower’s payroll costs over an eight-week period; when does that eight-week period begin?
Answer: The eight-week period begins on the date the lender makes the first disbursement of the PPP loan to the borrower. The lender must make the first disbursement of the loan no later than ten calendar days from the date of loan approval.

And even the above question fails to define what costs are. Costs incurred? Paid?
And if it's incurred what was the point of giving loans at 2.5X payroll?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 13, 2020, 01:26:24 PM
I helped someone apply through Bluevine today, 30 minutes after submitting the application they sent the loan docs and it was approved!
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shiframeir on May 13, 2020, 01:37:09 PM
At least the FAQ gives comfort to people worried about potential fines/claims against them for not taking the 1% loan in good faith.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: rivkao on May 13, 2020, 02:01:18 PM
There's no legal way to accept both loans (even if I only get one of them forgiven), right?

I know someone that got from two places at once.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 13, 2020, 02:28:15 PM
I know someone that got from two places at once.
Tell them to return it ASAP. The law is very clear on that.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 13, 2020, 03:51:40 PM
There's no legal way to accept both loans (even if I only get one of them forgiven), right?
i don't want to find out...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: aygart on May 13, 2020, 04:37:42 PM
From an email from Roth and Co regarding certification of necessity:

UPDATE: As of May 13th, the SBA has issued guidance that they will not audit any loans under $2 Million and will assume that certification was valid.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 13, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
I know someone that got from two places at once.

Thanks, I know I can. I’m asking if I can do it legally?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: plainbachur on May 13, 2020, 08:53:20 PM
If anyone needs PPP or EIDL i have a direct connection with bank getting loans approved within 24 hours PM me
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitzf on May 13, 2020, 08:55:46 PM
From an email from Roth and Co regarding certification of necessity:

UPDATE: As of May 13th, the SBA has issued guidance that they will not audit any loans under $2 Million and will assume that certification was valid.

To clarify - specifically regarding the requirement that the funds are necessary due to Covid-19, if the loan is under 2MM then it's assumed to have met that requirement. So they wont audit for that requirement specifically.

Quote from: https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Paycheck-Protection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf
46. Question: How will SBA review borrowers’ required good-faith certification concerning the necessity of their loan request?
Answer: When submitting a PPP application, all borrowers must certify in good faith that “[c]urrent economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant.” SBA, in consultation with the Department of the Treasury, has determined that the following safe harbor will apply to SBA’s review of PPP loans with respect to this issue: Any borrower that, together with its affiliates,20 received PPP loans with an original principal amount of less than $2 million will be deemed to have made the required certification concerning the necessity of the loan request in good faith.
SBA has determined that this safe harbor is appropriate because borrowers with loans below this threshold are generally less likely to have had access to adequate sources of liquidity in the current economic environment than borrowers that obtained larger loans. This safe harbor will also promote economic certainty as PPP borrowers with more limited resources endeavor to retain and rehire employees. In addition, given the large volume of PPP loans, this approach will enable SBA to conserve its finite audit resources and focus its reviews on larger loans, where the compliance effort may yield higher returns.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 13, 2020, 11:54:30 PM
If anyone needs PPP or EIDL i have a direct connection with bank getting loans approved within 24 hours PM me

::) EIDL???!!!

I’ll take an EIDL of as much money as you can get me at 2.5% for 30 years, just let me know what your cut is.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 14, 2020, 06:45:10 AM
I've seen conflicting info, the EIDL grant is deducted from the PPP forgiveness or not?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 07:22:53 AM
I've seen conflicting info, the EIDL grant is deducted from the PPP forgiveness or not?

This is correct, no conflicting info. The only exception I know of is if you don’t get a PPP loan, then you keep the EIDL advance.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: menachemd1 on May 14, 2020, 07:24:58 AM
If anyone needs PPP or EIDL i have a direct connection with bank getting loans approved within 24 hours PM me
Is EIDL still granted besides for agriculture ?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 07:30:38 AM
Is EIDL still granted besides for agriculture ?

I don’t think you can apply anymore. But if you have an EIDL application from (early?) April, you might still get a loan, albeit unlikely.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Proisrael on May 14, 2020, 08:28:29 AM
BH I applied Sunday through Eastern Union, I got the money this morning. 5 days start to finish. BH BH BH BH
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 14, 2020, 09:02:42 AM
I helped someone apply through Bluevine today, 30 minutes after submitting the application they sent the loan docs and it was approved!
Was funded this morning.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 10:06:42 AM
BH I applied Sunday through Eastern Union, I got the money this morning. 5 days start to finish. BH BH BH BH

Kabbage?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 10:20:47 AM
This is correct, no conflicting info. The only exception I know of is if you don’t get a PPP loan, then you keep the EIDL advance.

If you get an actual EIDL loan it needs to be added to your PPP (unlike the grant which is subtracted) and rolled into one.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 10:27:02 AM
If you get an actual EIDL loan it needs to be added to your PPP (unlike the grant which is subtracted) and rolled into one.

What if I get the EIDL after the PPP? No option to keep the 30-year term? If they’re actually lending EIDL for 30 years, that sounds very appealing (beats the best available mortgage rates out there...)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 10:31:19 AM
What if I get the EIDL after the PPP? No option to keep the 30-year term? If they’re actually lending EIDL for 30 years, that sounds very appealing (beats the best available mortgage rates out there...)

No idea, but I think PPP is 1% interest while EIDL is 3.75%
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 10:31:55 AM
No idea, but I think PPP is 1% interest while EIDL is 3.75%

And I'm seeing 30 year mortgages with interest rates of 2.875% right now...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 10:33:12 AM
And I'm seeing 30 year mortgages with interest rates of 2.875% right now...

I thought EIDL was 2.5%, I must be mistaken.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 10:34:31 AM
I thought EIDL was 2.5%, I must be mistaken.

Pretty sure it's:
nonprofits- 2.75%
for profit- 3.75%
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 14, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
If you get an actual EIDL loan it needs to be added to your PPP (unlike the grant which is subtracted) and rolled into one.
Only EIDL loans taken up to April 3 needs to be rolled in
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 14, 2020, 11:05:46 AM
And I'm seeing 30 year mortgages with interest rates of 2.875% right now...
Btw where do you have this mortgage rate?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 14, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
For those self-employed without a formal "payroll," how are you paying yourself (8/52 or whatever...) to be able to later show your payroll when applying for PPP forgiveness? Just transferring money from one account to another every 2 weeks? Sending yourself a check?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 11:17:50 AM
For those self-employed without a formal "payroll," how are you paying yourself (8/52 or whatever...) to be able to later show your payroll when applying for PPP forgiveness? Just transferring money from one account to another every 2 weeks? Sending yourself a check?

That's exactly the point of the 8/52- you have nothing you need to prove. It's automatic.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 11:18:18 AM
Btw where do you have this mortgage rate?

Refi rate. If you really want the name of the bank PM me.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 14, 2020, 11:36:08 AM
That's exactly the point of the 8/52- you have nothing you need to prove. It's automatic.
And what about the remainder?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: SwellCindy on May 14, 2020, 11:38:14 AM
Where do I find info on what the 8/52 is? Thanks.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 12:08:24 PM
And what about the remainder?

You can use for rent/utilities/mortgage interest to the extent that they were deductible on your 2019 Schedule C.
You might only be allowed to use 25% instead of the full remaining 26%- no clarity on that yet.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 12:14:29 PM
Where do I find info on what the 8/52 is? Thanks.

Have him read these:

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf?fbclid=IwAR35Rl3xCA7M43VREb9JKgeq4_UHYTgt79kjC6_5pF_c9vUrEOFi6Eb_Chk

Quote
f. What amounts shall be eligible for forgiveness?
The amount of loan forgiveness can be up to the full principal amount of the loan plus accrued interest. The actual amount of loan forgiveness will depend, in part, on the total amount spent over the covered period on:
i. ....
ii. owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit as described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit...



https://www.uschamber.com/report/independent-contractors-guide-cares-act-relief

Quote
5. Will this loan be forgiven?
Borrowers are eligible to have some or all of their loan forgiven.

How much?
An amount equal to how much you spent in the eight weeks following receipt of the loan for:

Owner compensation replacement, but not to exceed eight weeks of your 2019 compensation up to $100,000 (8/52 of the 2019 net profit up to $100,000)
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 14, 2020, 12:26:44 PM


https://www.uschamber.com/report/independent-contractors-guide-cares-act-relief
Just wanna make sure I get this right. Someone with a $100k 1099 for 2019, got $1000 EIDL grant and $20,833 for PPP, can't deduct rent/utilities/mortgage interest. All he has to do is pay back $6,448 and he's good to go?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 12:29:32 PM
Just wanna make sure I get this right. Someone with a $100k 1099 for 2019, got $1000 EIDL grant and $20,833 for PPP, can't deduct rent/utilities/mortgage interest. All he has to do is pay back $6,448 and he's good to go?

When you say "can't deduct rent/utilities/mortgage interest" do you mean he can't because he doesn't have any? or you're assuming he can't because of how you've interpreted the law?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 14, 2020, 12:42:02 PM
When you say "can't deduct rent/utilities/mortgage interest" do you mean he can't because he doesn't have any? or you're assuming he can't because of how you've interpreted the law?
The only rent, utilities and mortgage he has is for his personal home and he didn't deduct these expenses on his 2019 schedule C.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 14, 2020, 12:44:31 PM
The only rent, utilities and mortgage he has is for his personal home and he didn't deduct these expenses on his 2019 schedule C.
But can he legally deduct a portion? Does he have a office in his home?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 12:45:55 PM
someone in the company advised the accounting Dept. to only apply for the amount that we assumed would be forgiven. For example, say the salaried employees added up to $100000 fir 8 weeks of payroll and the hourly employees added up to an additional$100000 for 8 weeks of payroll. The acct Dept only applied for $100000 loan assuming that was the forgivable amount. In reality it seems we should have applied for $200000 and simply returned$100000. My question is , will the whole $100000 that we actually got approved for be forgivable if it is all spent on payroll.

This was just released yesterday:
https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-on-Loan-Increases.pdf

Some PPP loans were approved to partnerships or seasonal employers before the additional guidance was issued and, as a result, those businesses may not have received PPP loans in the maximum amount for which they are eligible. This interim final rule authorizes all PPP lenders to increase existing PPP loans to partnerships or seasonal employers to include appropriate amounts to cover partner compensation in accordance with the interim final rule posted on April 14, 2020

While the above may not fall into the category of partnerships or seasonal employers, the banks now have guidance on how to increase loans to those that didn't receive as much as they are entitled to. If this is you I suggest you reach out to see what they say.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 12:47:09 PM
The only rent, utilities and mortgage he has is for his personal home and he didn't deduct these expenses on his 2019 schedule C.

Ah. So yes, your calculation seems correct.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
But can he legally deduct a portion? Does he have a office in his home?

I'm not so sure that'll be enough. It says over and over again "to the extent that they were deducted on the 2019 Schedule C".
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: shapsam on May 14, 2020, 01:18:29 PM
Ah. So yes, your calculation seems correct.
Thank you
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 01:19:32 PM
Roth & Co.'s follow-up email after the webinar asks all the right questions that the SBA hasn't yet answered.

Quote from: The Roth&Co Team
-Can we give raises or bonuses in order to reach the 75% payroll criteria for forgiveness?
-Is overtime pay allowed for employees? Is there a cap on the number of hours per employee based on other pay periods?
-Is an employer allowed to offer incentives to employees to entice them to return to work? Incentive pay has a good chance of being forgiven so long as it was paid during the eight-week period and documented correctly with concrete reasons as to why it was necessary.
-How is Qualified Tuition Reduction considered? This has not been clarified by the SBA. We have reason to believe that this falls under “other fringe benefits,” and would be included as an eligible payroll expense.

How do we determine “incurred and paid” for the purpose of forgiveness?
This would answer questions like:
-If I receive funds on May 15th, can I use those funds to make payroll which covers the preceding 2 weeks?
-Can I pay ahead for benefits (such as medical) in order to maximize the forgiveness?
-Can I prepay my employees for future pay periods?
-Can I accelerate my last payroll (which already incurred) to ensure that it falls in the 8-week period?
-Can I pay a year’s worth of retirement benefits during the 8 weeks?
-Can I pay the previous month’s rent if I haven’t paid it yet?
-Can I pay May’s rent if we received funds on May 7th?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
Ah. So yes, your calculation seems correct.

Are you saying that for 1099 PPP borrowers, 8/52 is forgiven even without any additional expenses to get them over 75%?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 01:27:04 PM
Are you saying that for 1099 PPP borrowers, 8/52 is forgiven even without any additional expenses to get them over 75%?

My understanding is that you need to have 75% of your loan go to payroll in order to be able to use the other 25% for other stuff. If you use less than 75% for payroll, your forgiveness is reduced. In other words: any amounts used for payroll legitimately (for those 8 weeks, for steady employees etc) is forgiven.

If the guy isn't looking to get forgiveness for the remainder, and he's only looking to spend X amount on payroll I think he'll get forgiveness much easier...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 01:35:03 PM
My understanding is that you need to have 75% of your loan go to payroll in order to be able to use the other 25% for other stuff. If you use less than 75% for payroll, your forgiveness is reduced. In other words: any amounts used for payroll legitimately (for those 8 weeks, for steady employees etc) is forgiven.

If the guy isn't looking to get forgiveness for the remainder, and he's only looking to spend X amount on payroll I think he'll get forgiveness much easier...

Let’s say I’m the guy, and I got a $10k loan based on $48k 1099, let’s assume I don’t have an EIDL for simplification. 8/52 of $48k is $7,384.

What do I need for full loan forgiveness?
- $2,500 in qualifying expenses?
- $2,616 in qualifying expenses?
- Something else?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 01:43:40 PM
Let’s say I’m the guy, and I got a $10k loan based on $48k 1099, let’s assume I don’t have an EIDL for simplification. 8/52 of $48k is $7,384.

What do I need for full loan forgiveness?
- $2,500 in qualifying expenses?
- $2,616 in qualifying expenses?
- Something else?

That's exactly the question the SBA hasn't answered yet.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 01:47:44 PM
That's exactly the question the SBA hasn't answered yet.

Ah, I was under the impression that BlueVine was erroneously telling me they’re waiting to hear back from the SBA.

I’m starting to wonder if maybe I shouldn’t have signed my loan docs so that my funding starts after I know the rules.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 14, 2020, 01:49:52 PM
Roth & Co.'s follow-up email after the webinar asks all the right questions that the SBA hasn't yet answered.

But no answers here either...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 14, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
47.Question:An SBA interim final rule posted on May 8, 2020 provided that any borrower who applied for a PPP loan and repays the loan in full by May 14, 2020 will be deemed by SBA to have made the required certification concerning the necessity of the loan request in good faith.  Is it possible for a borrower to obtain an extension of the May 14, 2020 repayment date?
Answer:  Yes, SBA is extending the repayment date for this safe harbor to May 18, 2020, to give borrowers an opportunity to review and consider FAQ #46.  Borrowers do not need to apply for this extension.  This extension will be promptly implemented through a revision to the SBA’s interim final rule providing the safe harbor.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: TravelSER on May 14, 2020, 03:03:47 PM
They stopped taking applications as of now.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ae123 on May 14, 2020, 10:34:20 PM
I see I'm very late to this. I'd appreciate some help.
Someone who runs a small nonprofit and is also self-employed, would he be able to get EIDL and or PPP grants (or forgivable loans, but not non-forgivable loans)?
If yes, how much for each?
Thank you.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 14, 2020, 10:42:44 PM
I see I'm very late to this. I'd appreciate some help.
Someone who runs a small nonprofit and is also self-employed, would he be able to get EIDL and or PPP grants (or forgivable loans, but not non-forgivable loans)?
If yes, how much for each?
Thank you.

EIDL only the grant is forgivable (1k per employee max 10k) and if you get PPP it needs to be deducted so only get it if you're not looking to get PPP. (I don't know that you can get this now)

PPP Loan Amount:
If the non-profit has payroll 2.5X of 2019 average monthly wages
Assuming you have a Schedule C for being self-employed it's 2.5X of your Schedule C divided by 12.

Forgiveness:
Non-profit- spend at least 75% on payroll and 25% or less on rent, utilities, and mortgage interest in the 8 weeks following funding

Self Employed- 8/52 of 2019 Schedule C will be forgiven in lieu of payroll. If you deducted rent, utilities, and mortgage interest on 2019 Schedule C you can spend 25% of your loan for that in the 8 weeks following funding.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 14, 2020, 10:48:10 PM
I’m starting to wonder if maybe I shouldn’t have signed my loan docs so that my funding starts after I know the rules.

That's what I'm doing.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: zh cohen on May 14, 2020, 10:48:31 PM
They stopped taking applications as of now.

Who stopped?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ae123 on May 14, 2020, 10:54:42 PM
EIDL only the grant is forgivable (1k per employee max 10k) and if you get PPP it needs to be deducted so only get it if you're not looking to get PPP. (I don't know that you can get this now)

PPP Loan Amount:
If the non-profit has payroll 2.5X of 2019 average monthly wages
Assuming you have a Schedule C for being self-employed it's 2.5X of your Schedule C divided by 12.

Forgiveness:
Non-profit- spend at least 75% on payroll and 25% or less on rent, utilities, and mortgage interest in the 8 weeks following funding

Self Employed- 8/52 of 2019 Schedule C will be forgiven in lieu of payroll. If you deducted rent, utilities, and mortgage interest on 2019 Schedule C you can spend 25% of your loan for that in the 8 weeks following funding.
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ae123 on May 14, 2020, 10:58:54 PM
Frankly, we don't have the time to figure this all out.
Is there someone that takes care of it for other people?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 15, 2020, 01:18:11 AM
Received today email from Dime banker with some clarifications requests from the underwriter
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: TravelSER on May 15, 2020, 01:22:14 AM
Who stopped?
The lender I was working with, I sent them all docs, and they told me a few hours latter that they are not funding any more as of now.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: yitz1000 on May 15, 2020, 07:20:57 AM
The lender I was working with, I sent them all docs, and they told me a few hours latter that they are not funding any more as of now.

Go apply with Bluevine: https://www.bluevine.com/paycheck-protection-program/
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 15, 2020, 09:24:50 AM
The lender I was working with, I sent them all docs, and they told me a few hours latter that they are not funding any more as of now.

Which lender is this?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 15, 2020, 11:01:24 AM
For those who filed for unemployment and PPP, once you get PPP you cant have both. What are people doing who want to go back on UE after the 8 weeks? Certifying for UE for the weeks prior to PPP, then just not certifying for 8 weeks, then continuing? Or do you have to leave UE and then reapply in 8 weeks? Or do you certify and just write you were working?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 15, 2020, 11:03:50 AM
For those who filed for unemployment and PPP, once you get PPP you cant have both. What are people doing who want to go back on UE after the 8 weeks? Certifying for UE for the weeks prior to PPP, then just not certifying for 8 weeks, then continuing? Or do you have to leave UE and then reapply in 8 weeks? Or do you certify and just write you were working?

You have two choices (and they essentially mean the same thing to the DOL)
1) stop certifying for those 8 weeks or
2) certify that you were working
Your won't have to reapply. Each claim has a benefit ending year date and it will remain open til that date.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 15, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
You have two choices (and they essentially mean the same thing to the DOL)
1) stop certifying for those 8 weeks or
2) certify that you were working
Your won't have to reapply. Each claim has a benefit ending year date and it will remain open til that date.
Thanks. Does that mean that there is no way around those 8 weeks (for which you are not collecting UE) counting toward your UE total (the 26 weeks plus whatever they add)?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 15, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
Thanks. Does that mean that there is no way around those 8 weeks (for which you are not collecting UE) counting toward your UE total (the 26 weeks plus whatever they add)?

In NY:
It's not 26 consecutive weeks, it's 104 days. Each day you file a full claim you get 4 days deducted from your balance.
If you file a partial claim they deduct less days.
Not filing or filing and being eligible for 0 days means nothing is deducted and your current balance passes over to the next week.
Check out this situation I'm wondering about: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115175.msg2252794#msg2252794
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 15, 2020, 11:16:48 AM
In NY:
It's not 26 consecutive weeks, it's 104 days. Each day you file a full claim you get 4 days deducted from your balance.
If you file a partial claim they deduct less days.
Not filing or filing and being eligible for 0 days means nothing is deducted and your current balance passes over to the next week.
Check out this situation I'm wondering about: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115175.msg2252794#msg2252794
Makes sense, thanks! Does the same apply in NJ? I'd imagine so...
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 15, 2020, 11:26:00 AM
Makes sense, thanks! Does the same apply in NJ? I'd imagine so...

I believe all states have either "total effective days" where days get deducted from or a "maximum amount payable" where the weekly benefits paid gets deducted from, or both. If you're not cashing out days and/or benefits your balance doesn't get reduced and is carried over weekly until your benefit year ends.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ExGingi on May 15, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
DW finally got loan documents to sign from Kabbage.

Of note - Kabbage uses different banks to fund the loans. My loan is from Customers Bank, DW's loan is from Cross River.

Since my loan never showed up in my bank account, and Kabbage is useless at this point, I actually reached out to Customers Bank. Let's see if that helps.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 15, 2020, 11:35:54 AM
Thanks. Does that mean that there is no way around those 8 weeks (for which you are not collecting UE) counting toward your UE total (the 26 weeks plus whatever they add)?
If you work those 8 weeks only 3 days a week and earn 75% of your prior income, up to $504 a week, you can still file for partial UI and receive the $600, while also use the funds from PPP,
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 15, 2020, 11:41:19 AM
If you work those 8 weeks only 3 days a week and earn 75% of your prior income, up to $504 a week, you can still file for partial UI and receive the $600, while also use the funds from PPP,

He's in NJ. He gets an even better deal...
He can earn up to 20% more than his Weekly Benefit Rate and get the difference between his wages and his WBR from UI, plus $600 weekly.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 15, 2020, 12:26:10 PM
He's in NJ. He gets an even better deal...
He can earn up to 20% more than his Weekly Benefit Rate and get the difference between his wages and his WBR from UI, plus $600 weekly.
During the 8 weeks of PPP? I'm sorry, I'm not totally following.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 15, 2020, 12:33:53 PM
During the 8 weeks of PPP? I'm sorry, I'm not totally following.

Probably not but a remote possibility if your wages are dropped to 75% of your previous rate.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 15, 2020, 12:45:37 PM

Probably not but a remote possibility if your wages are dropped to 75% of your previous rate.
They would be, if not for  PPP, which is covering wages of those 8 weeks.

I guess the quote below is what I'm confused about.

If you work those 8 weeks only 3 days a week and earn 75% of your prior income, up to $504 a week, you can still file for partial UI and receive the $600, while also use the funds from PPP.

Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 15, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
They would be, if not for  PPP, which is covering wages of those 8 weeks.

I guess the quote below is what I'm confused about.

If you work those 8 weeks only 3 days a week and earn 75% of your prior income, up to $504 a week, you can still file for partial UI and receive the $600, while also use the funds from PPP.

There's something called 'partial unemployment' in most states. Basically if your wages drop to below your WBR, you can collect UI for the difference (and right now that entitles you to $600 as well). (NY has different rules than everyone else of course...)

In order to be eligible for PPP wages need to be maintained at 75% but could be dropped by up to 25% without penalty.
If this is you, and your 75% wages are less than your WBR you're eligible for partial unemployment.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 15, 2020, 01:05:54 PM
Received today email from Dime banker with some clarifications requests from the underwriter
What kind of info requests? I got that they need more business info. But it was only to open bank account... I told them that I'm not completing that until I'm ready and approved to be funded..
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 15, 2020, 01:23:04 PM
What kind of info requests? I got that they need more business info. But it was only to open bank account... I told them that I'm not completing that until I'm ready and approved to be funded..
They needed some clarifications about employee benefits
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 15, 2020, 01:24:14 PM
Just received now email from Dime banker that underwriting approved the loan. Should receive email from funding dept in next couple of days
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: ilherman on May 15, 2020, 03:01:39 PM
Just received now email from Dime banker that underwriting approved the loan. Should receive email from funding dept in next couple of weeks
FTFY.

On what day did you apply? What was your app number?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 15, 2020, 03:51:39 PM
FTFY.

On what day did you apply? What was your app number?
SBA Approval on April 28
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: AsherO on May 15, 2020, 06:25:35 PM
Just received now email from Dime banker that underwriting approved the loan. Should receive email from funding dept in next couple of days

No loan docs? Since you signed those already?

What happens if you want the money but refuse to open a Dime account?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: thebudgetdeals on May 15, 2020, 06:44:34 PM
No loan docs? Since you signed those already?

What happens if you want the money but refuse to open a Dime account?
Opened already account, now waiting to receive the loan docs.
Whats the matter to open up the account? you can than transfer out the whole money to any other account and close the Dime account
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: Mordyk on May 15, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
https://www.sba.gov/about-sba/sba-newsroom/press-releases-media-advisories/sba-and-treasury-release-paycheck-protection-program-loan-forgiveness-application
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: cgr on May 16, 2020, 10:39:14 PM
https://www.sba.gov/about-sba/sba-newsroom/press-releases-media-advisories/sba-and-treasury-release-paycheck-protection-program-loan-forgiveness-application

Preliminary Notes:

The SBA is using the term "paid or incurred". Does that mean either one will do? Can I pay 6 months of payroll now and get 100% forgiven instead of worrying about the 75% threshold and submitting mortgage and utility docs?

Looks like owners can only enter 8/52 of 2019 Schedule C and cannot add any other payroll benefits. Based on the calculation that means that their forgiveness will be reduced as they don't meet the 74% threshold.

Looks like FTE's is actually FTE equivalent, so 2 PT employees will count as 1 FT. Pity if anyone didn't include them in their original payroll calculation to obtain the loan.
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: beeweegee on May 16, 2020, 10:44:57 PM
Preliminary Notes:

The SBA is using the term "paid or incurred". Does that mean either one will do? Can I pay 6 months of payroll now and get 100% forgiven instead of worrying about the 75% threshold and submitting mortgage and utility docs?

Looks like owners can only enter 8/52 of 2019 Schedule C and cannot add any other payroll benefits. Based on the calculation that means that their forgiveness will be reduced as they don't meet the 74% threshold.

Looks like FTE's is actually FTE equivalent, so 2 PT employees will count as 1 FT. Pity if anyone didn't include them in their original payroll calculation to obtain the loan.
What would this mean practically if there are no additional covered expenses and all they have as qualified expenses is their 8/52 (self) payroll?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Post by: YesThatsMe on May 16, 2020, 10:53:21 PM
What happens if the Draft Schedule C end up being very different than your final Schedule C?
Title: Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
Po