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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 Discussion Board => Topic started by: aygart on April 22, 2020, 12:40:16 PM

Title: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on April 22, 2020, 12:40:16 PM
What is already known and what are long term concerns about lingering effects of COVID-19 after recovery or for those who have had mild no clear known symptoms?
I would include long term effects and morbidity of any intubation.
We have seen articles about effects on the lungs of young people with few symptoms. Are there any follow up studies about how those healed over time?
We have seen reports of the virus residing in testicles. What kind of effects can that have on future fertility and future birth defects?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:05 PM
What is already known and what are long term concerns about lingering effects of COVID-19 after recovery or for those who have had mild no clear known symptoms?
I would include long term effects and morbidity of any intubation.
We have seen articles about effects on the lungs of young people with few symptoms. Are there any follow up studies about how those healed over time?
We have seen reports of the virus residing in testicles. What kind of effects can that have on future fertility and future birth defects?
Another oft forgotten part of the question- we have no clue of the negative effects of this virus. All the more reason to be careful.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yuneeq on April 23, 2020, 07:33:54 AM
A study of SARS patients 15 years later showed that patients still had lung damage. We dont know if COVID will do that as well but SARS is the most similar virus to learn from.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ari3 on April 23, 2020, 01:44:33 PM
A study of SARS patients 15 years later showed that patients still had lung damage. We dont know if COVID will do that as well but SARS is the most similar virus to learn from.
Early on before things accelerated here there were articles that lung x-rays from recovered patients (even from non severe cases) showed significant lung damage.
This was from china so YMMV and I doubt anyone is doing x-rays on recovered patients here as of now.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on April 23, 2020, 01:50:24 PM
Early on before things accelerated here there were articles that lung x-rays from recovered patients (even from non severe cases) showed significant lung damage.
This was from china so YMMV and I doubt anyone is doing x-rays on recovered patients here as of now.
Yes, but those can possibly heal further over time.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: KSMH on April 23, 2020, 02:04:29 PM
A study of SARS patients 15 years later showed that patients still had lung damage. We dont know if COVID will do that as well but SARS is the most similar virus to learn from.
Most lung infections, such as bronchitis and pneumonia can have long lasting damage.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: srap on April 23, 2020, 02:08:56 PM
We also don't know how long the virus will stay within the body.  Initially it was a couple weeks, 30 days, two months, now possibly six!  Can it be reactivated later?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on April 23, 2020, 02:09:40 PM
Most lung infections, such as bronchitis and pneumonia can have long lasting damage.
Then that is bad news for recovered Covid patients
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: hvaces42 on April 23, 2020, 02:13:08 PM
We also don't know how long the virus will stay within the body.  Initially it was a couple weeks, 30 days, two months, now possibly six!  Can it be reactivated later?
IGG IGM testing should tell us that soon. Quest says they will have capability to test next week.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: KSMH on April 23, 2020, 02:16:09 PM
Then that is bad news for recovered Covid patients

Having long lasting damage doesnt mean youll even know about it.

Think of it like a scar.

Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on April 23, 2020, 02:29:48 PM
Having long lasting damage doesnt mean youll even know about it.

Think of it like a scar.


Until the scar tissue comes to haunt you later in life.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on April 23, 2020, 02:34:33 PM
Is it reasonable to assume that asymptomatic patients don't have scarred lungs?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: hvaces42 on April 23, 2020, 02:45:30 PM
Is it reasonable to assume that asymptomatic patients don't have scarred lungs?
No. Asymptomatic patients have had terrible double pnuemonia show up on x-rays.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on April 23, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
No. Asymptomatic patients have had terrible double pnuemonia show up on x-rays.
Wow. How is it possible to have such terrible pneumonia without feeling it?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: CountValentine on April 23, 2020, 03:00:57 PM
Wow. How is it possible to have such terrible pneumonia without feeling it?
Walking pneumonia?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: hvaces42 on April 23, 2020, 04:47:47 PM
Walking pneumonia?
Exactly. Wouldnt be surpised that more people walking around with slight cough and pnuemonia. Good O2 saturations.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on April 23, 2020, 04:58:36 PM
Until the scar tissue comes to haunt you later in life.
(https://i.gyazo.com/af637808a26e60c63aa72d4c1b2821bc.png)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on April 23, 2020, 06:05:43 PM
Exactly. Wouldnt be surpised that more people walking around with slight cough and pnuemonia. Good O2 saturations.

Or even subpar OxSat, considering we have hospital patients who are functioning surprisingly well with OxSat levels way below normal.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on April 24, 2020, 03:12:53 AM
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19#Post-intensive-care-syndrome
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on May 25, 2020, 08:52:46 PM
Read this description of a 20-year old who had mild covid-19 symptoms in March, a positive antibody test in April, and was hospitalized in May with the covid-related inflammatory disease recently described in children.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/opinion/mis-c-coronavirus-children.html

So there may be health consequences that don't show up till two months after infection. 
Might there be other health consequences after 6 months? 

Hmmm... Let me look that up.... 

Oh, never mind, I'll just ask here:  Did you have covid-19 six months ago?  Any lingering symptoms?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 26, 2020, 03:41:10 AM
What is already known and what are long term concerns about lingering effects of COVID-19 after recovery or for those who have had mild no clear known symptoms?
I would include long term effects and morbidity of any intubation.
We have seen articles about effects on the lungs of young people with few symptoms. Are there any follow up studies about how those healed over time?
We have seen reports of the virus residing in testicles. What kind of effects can that have on future fertility and future birth defects?
Scary. Just bought an Oximeter
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: srap on May 26, 2020, 08:29:49 AM
Scary. Just bought an Oximeter
Yup.  There are days my SaO2 goes down to 94% even though I had the virus over 2 months ago.  Symptoms still flare up every few days.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Yard sale on May 26, 2020, 08:44:21 AM
Yup.  There are days my SaO2 goes down to 94% even though I had the virus over 2 months ago.  Symptoms still flare up every few days.
What was your baseline? 95 is within normal range.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 26, 2020, 09:40:45 AM
Yup.  There are days my SaO2 goes down to 94% even though I had the virus over 2 months ago.  Symptoms still flare up every few days.
Maybe take HCQ
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Yonah on May 26, 2020, 09:47:10 AM
Hearing anecdotally from my friends who are recovering (who were inflicted to varying degrees) that they are working on building lung capacity back up - but again, this is anecdotal, and I can't definitively tell you how different this is from any other person who's been laid up in bed for a month.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on June 30, 2020, 04:18:25 PM
This seems like an appropriate thread to resuscitate, based on a few recent posts regarding long term effects of covid:

1. Ergel posted this article Covid-19 Can Last Several Months (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679) from The Atlantic, on long term effects of covid

2. Lurker posted this article http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/282581 from Israel
The article shows how 50% of the non-serious cases actually have greater internal damage, with potentially long-lasting health implications. Considering the social and economic impacts of a nation with potentially life-long health issues, I'd say we have every reason to keep as many people as possible from getting infected at all.


3. I've recently heard about the following cases
male, about 40, used to work out with a trainer, now gets winded after less than 10 minutes of activity
female, about 40, experiencing chronic pain on her side since having COVID
male, 60s, having visual problems since COVID

Yet @ExGingi and @Kobe bryent each say they know about 100 people who have no long-term problems.  Do they really have no more symptoms, or they just haven't mentioned them?   It would be helpful if those with many recovered friends could ask them specifically whether or not they have any remaining symptoms from COVID-19, and post the results here.  Maybe DDF will contribute another breakthrough, like the early discovery of loss of smell as a symptom.  ;)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on June 30, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
Yet @ExGingi and @Kobe bryent each say they know about 100 people who have no long-term problems.  Do they really have no more symptoms, or they just haven't mentioned them?   It would be helpful if those with many recovered friends could ask them specifically whether or not they have any remaining symptoms from COVID-19, and post the results here.  Maybe DDF will contribute another breakthrough, like the early discovery of loss of smell as a symptom.  ;)

The Gedalia Society might have actual data on this.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cmey on June 30, 2020, 04:47:26 PM
This seems like an appropriate thread to resuscitate, based on a few recent posts regarding long term effects of covid:

1. Ergel posted this article Covid-19 Can Last Several Months (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679) from The Atlantic, on long term effects of covid

2. Lurker posted this article http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/282581 from Israel 

3. I've recently heard about the following cases
male, about 40, used to work out with a trainer, now gets winded after less than 10 minutes of activity
female, about 40, experiencing chronic pain on her side since having COVID
male, 60s, having visual problems since COVID

Yet @ExGingi and @Kobe bryent each say they know about 100 people who have no long-term problems.  Do they really have no more symptoms, or they just haven't mentioned them?   It would be helpful if those with many recovered friends could ask them specifically whether or not they have any remaining symptoms from COVID-19, and post the results here.  Maybe DDF will contribute another breakthrough, like the early discovery of loss of smell as a symptom.  ;)
Very hard to be objective when there is the potential for psychosomatic symptoms after an illness. There are tens of thousands of people who claim to have chronic long term impacts from Lyme disease. Some may be real but there is little objective clinical evidence. Have to wait for studies that measure lung function etc. to draw any reliable conclusions.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on June 30, 2020, 05:21:05 PM
What about the long term mental health issues of the lockdown?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on June 30, 2020, 05:35:01 PM
What about the long term mental health issues of the lockdown?
Yes, we can get to that question in another thread. Here we're looking for long-term physical or mental health issues related to having had covid.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ari3 on June 30, 2020, 09:47:40 PM
This seems like an appropriate thread to resuscitate, based on a few recent posts regarding long term effects of covid:

1. Ergel posted this article Covid-19 Can Last Several Months (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679) from The Atlantic, on long term effects of covid

2. Lurker posted this article http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/282581 from Israel 

3. I've recently heard about the following cases
male, about 40, used to work out with a trainer, now gets winded after less than 10 minutes of activity
female, about 40, experiencing chronic pain on her side since having COVID
male, 60s, having visual problems since COVID

Yet @ExGingi and @Kobe bryent each say they know about 100 people who have no long-term problems.  Do they really have no more symptoms, or they just haven't mentioned them?   It would be helpful if those with many recovered friends could ask them specifically whether or not they have any remaining symptoms from COVID-19, and post the results here.  Maybe DDF will contribute another breakthrough, like the early discovery of loss of smell as a symptom.  ;)
Being that the virus arrived here appx than 4 months ago its a bit difficult to ascertain long term health issues. You would need at least a couple of years for that.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on June 30, 2020, 10:00:27 PM
I heard a couple of people say that they are still very sensitive to the smell of eggs. Wondering if anyone else out there had that.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on June 30, 2020, 10:39:06 PM
Being that the virus arrived here appx than 4 months ago its a bit difficult to ascertain long term health issues. You would need at least a couple of years for that.
Yes, certainly, we can return in a few years to update!  I should have written "lingering" rather than "long term" symptoms.  That is, while most recover within a week, some people are still unwell many weeks after infection.

Kobe bryent and ExGingi think lingering symptoms are rare, based on not hearing about them from acquaintances.  I was suggesting that directly asking acquaintances whether they still have symptoms might elicit a more accurate response.

I personally know over 100 people in my immediate circle, who have had Covid19, and AFAIK none have any issues BH (may it continue so).
The only lingering effect that I have heard of in my circles (probably just as large), is of some people not having their sense of smell (and possibly taste) fully recovered.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on June 30, 2020, 10:41:10 PM
Have also heard of a few people reporting general weakness or some shortness of breath (not as bad as when they were sick, but not as good as before).
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cmey on July 01, 2020, 04:22:38 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-months-in-these-patients-are-still-ravaged-by-covids-fallout-11593612004?mod=mhp
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 01, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Yes, certainly, we can return in a few years to update!  I should have written "lingering" rather than "long term" symptoms.  That is, while most recover within a week, some people are still unwell many weeks after infection.

I know quite a few pepple who have lingering effects.
weakness in particular;  no stamina.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 05:36:59 PM
I know this is weird and purely anecdotal but some of the people I know whove had moderate cases of COVID (sick in bed, high fever, some with lower oxygen, but not hospitalized) have seemed very nervous and on edge since. Theyll get angry at very little provocation, get annoyed with little things that didnt seem to bother them before, more anxious, etc. As I said, very weird. Anyone else find this?

I know some will say this is due to quarantine but Im specifically referring to people whove had moderate cases of COVID. Im not sure about severe cases but I havent seen it in people who havent had it or had very mild cases.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 05:37:27 PM
What about the long term mental health issues of the lockdown?
What about the long term effects of post nasal drip?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Eb228 on July 01, 2020, 06:46:35 PM
I know this is weird and purely anecdotal but some of the people I know whove had moderate cases of COVID (sick in bed, high fever, some with lower oxygen, but not hospitalized) have seemed very nervous and on edge since. Theyll get angry at very little provocation, get annoyed with little things that didnt seem to bother them before, more anxious, etc. As I said, very weird. Anyone else find this?

I know some will say this is due to quarantine but Im specifically referring to people whove had moderate cases of COVID. Im not sure about severe cases but I havent seen it in people who havent had it or had very mild cases.

That prob has more to do with quarentene than COVID
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 01, 2020, 07:23:31 PM
covid can have an affect on the central nervous system. (no smell, for example)
Having a brush with death can have a mental health affect.
Long term fatigue, especially when it seems like you're the only one, or you wonder if your fatigue is real, can be very frustrating.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 07:50:55 PM
covid can have an affect on the central nervous system. (no smell, for example)
Having a brush with death can have a mental health affect.
Long term fatigue, especially when it seems like you're the only one, or you wonder if your fatigue is real, can be very frustrating.
Thanks
That prob has more to do with quarentene than COVID
It would behoove you to read the post before commenting
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on July 01, 2020, 08:10:15 PM
I know this is weird and purely anecdotal but some of the people I know whove had moderate cases of COVID (sick in bed, high fever, some with lower oxygen, but not hospitalized) have seemed very nervous and on edge since. Theyll get angry at very little provocation, get annoyed with little things that didnt seem to bother them before, more anxious, etc. As I said, very weird. Anyone else find this?

I know some will say this is due to quarantine but Im specifically referring to people whove had moderate cases of COVID. Im not sure about severe cases but I havent seen it in people who havent had it or had very mild cases.

Visible right here on DDF.  😢
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on July 01, 2020, 08:20:42 PM
Visible right here on DDF.  😢
I think you're being kind. Were those people who were calmer/reasonable before Covid-19?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: RewardsAddict on July 01, 2020, 08:24:20 PM
I know this is weird and purely anecdotal but some of the people I know whove had moderate cases of COVID (sick in bed, high fever, some with lower oxygen, but not hospitalized) have seemed very nervous and on edge since. Theyll get angry at very little provocation, get annoyed with little things that didnt seem to bother them before, more anxious, etc. As I said, very weird. Anyone else find this?

I know some will say this is due to quarantine but Im specifically referring to people whove had moderate cases of COVID. Im not sure about severe cases but I havent seen it in people who havent had it or had very mild cases.
I know a few people who have been like that since corona. Until know I thought it was due to loss of parnassa, but who knows?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on July 01, 2020, 08:30:21 PM
I think you're being kind. Were those people who were calmer/reasonable before Covid-19?
The ones I am thinking of? ABSOLUTELY!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on July 01, 2020, 08:32:18 PM
The ones I am thinking of? ABSOLUTELY NOT
I'm confused.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on July 01, 2020, 08:33:46 PM
I'm confused.
Fixed
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on July 01, 2020, 08:40:00 PM
Fixed
Did they have Covid-19?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2020, 08:40:13 PM
Visible right here on DDF.  😢
Here, DDMS comments, Whatsapp, everywhere.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on July 01, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
Did they have Covid-19?



The ones I am thinking of? ABSOLUTELY!

But some others

That prob has more to do with quarentene than COVID
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on July 01, 2020, 08:50:27 PM


But some others

Here, DDMS comments, Whatsapp, everywhere.
Oish. May I recommend some therapeutic treatment?

I just heard a recording of the Klausenburger Ruv (his yahrtzeit is today) relating how he refused to eat Treif when he arrived at Auschwitz, and how desolate he felt when all of a sudden someone came looking for him with food and he came to the realization that Hashem was with him even there in the camps of death.

I found his way of expressing himself so candid and honest. It was very refreshing after living in our times when we are all surrounded by so much deceit and lies, all we hear on the news is more dumb politics, and more dumb politicians.

ETA: I really shortened the story. Here is an audio clip of the Klausenburger Ruv Zatzal relating the episode (with English subtitles). https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fUyfVMnV5qPjiKiR-JGG3NLN6I74tHWz/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 01, 2020, 08:51:29 PM
.
Have you had Covid? I've found that when people find others edgy it's a sign that they are edgy.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on July 01, 2020, 09:00:42 PM
covid can have an affect on the central nervous system. (no smell, for example)
Having a brush with death can have a mental health affect.
Long term fatigue, especially when it seems like you're the only one, or you wonder if your fatigue is real, can be very frustrating.

If anyone here is knowledgable on the havoc wrecked by the Spanish Flu, you'll know that beyond a % of survivors developing schizophrenia, and beyond the fact that babies born to surviving mothers were shorter and weaker than those born earlier, later, and to non-infected mothers, there were also many cases where patients developed CFS/ME.
Regarding those who are edgy- it's been documented that Woodrow Wilson was increasingly irritable and edgy after his brush with the flu (although he suffered a stroke as a result of the flu so I'm not sure I'd blame the flu- I'd rather blame the stroke).
At this point we can still blame quarantine, but as more time passes we'll have to start considering the possibility that yes, it's possible some of us have developed chronic illnesses/conditions that are here to stay.

Since there's been some talk up thread about how few of you know people personally who have lingering (hopefully not long-term) effects:
My parents both claim that they've not regained their strength and tire easier than before.
I myself, who had a borderline serious case (oxegyn was in the 86-90 zone for a few days but I managed to stay out of the hospital) have noticed a  definite change. Walking up a flight of stairs now means taking a rest. I will point out that it's been harder to work out due to restrictions, and it might be an effect of me being more sedentary than usual, but I've also never been out of breath when climbing a flight of stairs, regardless of my current workout schedule. I'm not ready to draw conclusions at this point, although I do plan to request a chest xray at my next annual checkup to confirm that there's been no damage (there are a few more symptoms I've noticed so I'm pretty sure my doctor won't deny my request).
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ari3 on July 01, 2020, 09:24:20 PM
Visible right here on DDF.  😢
Maybe s209 can write up a survey asking for all the data points. Are you more edgy, did you have corona, do you have other stressors like loss of parnosa, kids not in school or camp, having lingering weakness, getting frustrated with thickheaded fellow DDFers etc and then we will know if it's caused by corona.

Personally I am probably more edgy but besides having had corona (not seriously) I also have/had most of the other stressors
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 10:08:41 PM
Have you had Covid? I've found that when people find others edgy it's a sign that they are edgy.
I havent (AFAIK).

Good point, but you know what else causes you to find others edgy? Others being edgy ;)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on July 01, 2020, 10:12:55 PM
I don't know what's with people these days, everyone is so judgemental!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
I don't know what's with people these days, everyone is so judgemental!
Touch
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on July 01, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
Touch
Joke :D
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 02, 2020, 02:39:11 AM
I know this is weird and purely anecdotal but some of the people I know whove had moderate cases of COVID (sick in bed, high fever, some with lower oxygen, but not hospitalized) have seemed very nervous and on edge since. Theyll get angry at very little provocation, get annoyed with little things that didnt seem to bother them before, more anxious, etc. As I said, very weird. Anyone else find this?

I know some will say this is due to quarantine but Im specifically referring to people whove had moderate cases of COVID. Im not sure about severe cases but I havent seen it in people who havent had it or had very mild cases.

I wonder if it's tied to the shortness of breath and lack of stamina people seem to be experiencing. Maybe it's causing something similar to sleep apnea, where the sleep cycles are interrupted. This can cause fatigue, irritability, jumpiness, anxiety, and the like. It can also by cyclical, in that the lack of sleep impairs the lungs or respiratory system to repair themselves, causing more interrupted sleep patterns.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 02, 2020, 11:38:43 AM
Here, DDMS comments, Whatsapp, everywhere.

Interesting that it's marked enough for you to notice.
I attribute short temperedness on the internet to quarantine.  Not enough purposeful things to do.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on July 02, 2020, 11:40:59 AM
Interesting that it's marked enough for you to notice.
I attribute short temperedness on the internet to quarantine.  Not enough purposeful things to do.
Very noticeable since March.
Quarantine and anxiety for sure. Covid side effect, unclear.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
So the lingering symptoms reported include
Not yet reported but possible we'll see them in future

The question is how common are these?
Dr. Izbicki from Shaare Zedek says they affect about 50% of patients.  How did he reach that number? We don't know, because he only publicized a preliminary press release.  He's director of the Pulmonary Institute, so he might be only seeing patients with more severe symptoms.  In fact, the story includes his phone number for recovered covid patients to sign up for his study, so we shouldn't expect that 50% will be his final conclusion.  https://www.jpost.com/health-science/50-percent-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-from-weakness-distress-after-recovery-633072

On the other hand, some here suggested it's closer to 0%, that few if any of their acquaintances have lingering symptoms. 

We could get a quick look at this if DDFers ask acquaintances whether they have ANY lingering symptoms, and just post the numbers here, as I spoke to ____ people who recovered from covid and ___ still have lingering symptoms.


Here's why I think it's important:

When covid first appeared, the consequence we feared was death, and therefore we accepted isolation.
Now that young people know the chance of death is <1%, they are less careful about avoiding infection.
But it's still important for them to be careful, to avoid infecting those especially vulnerable, and to avoid the need for further shutdowns.
An emphasis on the __% chance of developing lingering and even debilitating side effects might encourage them to take more precautions to avoid infection.

This might sound silly, to expect that "not being able to work out" would be more of a deterrent than "chance of dying", but I vaguely remember something like this from an advertising campaign against smoking.  Young people were shown ads that targeted different harms of smoking, and their responses were something like this:
So hearing "You'll be too tired to dance" might motivate more young people to try to avoid infection. 
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 08:58:49 PM
So hearing "You'll be too tired to dance" might motivate more young people to try to avoid infection.

What would motivate someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect to avoid reinfection?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on July 02, 2020, 09:45:39 PM
Could irritability be due to reduced oxygen due to mask wearing? Just wondering.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 09:52:13 PM
Could irritability be due to reduced oxygen due to mask wearing? Just wondering.
Could be due to many things, but there wouldnt be a pattern of people who had moderate cases of COVID
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on July 02, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
Could be due to many things, but there wouldnt be a pattern of people who had moderate cases of COVID
right
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Jellybelly on July 03, 2020, 08:03:53 AM
So the lingering symptoms reported include
  • Fatigue, weakness, tiredness, no stamina
  • Respiratory, shortness of breath, decreased SaO2, decreased lung capacity
  • Neurological, chronic pain, mood changes- edgy, irritable; vision problems; sensitivity to smells
Not yet reported but possible we'll see them in future
  • Chronic fatigue syndrome
  • Long term lung damage

The question is how common are these?
Dr. Izbicki from Shaare Zedek says they affect about 50% of patients.  How did he reach that number? We don't know, because he only publicized a preliminary press release.  He's director of the Pulmonary Institute, so he might be only seeing patients with more severe symptoms.  In fact, the story includes his phone number for recovered covid patients to sign up for his study, so we shouldn't expect that 50% will be his final conclusion.  https://www.jpost.com/health-science/50-percent-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-from-weakness-distress-after-recovery-633072

On the other hand, some here suggested it's closer to 0%, that few if any of their acquaintances have lingering symptoms. 

We could get a quick look at this if DDFers ask acquaintances whether they have ANY lingering symptoms, and just post the numbers here, as I spoke to ____ people who recovered from covid and ___ still have lingering symptoms.


Here's why I think it's important:

When covid first appeared, the consequence we feared was death, and therefore we accepted isolation.
Now that young people know the chance of death is <1%, they are less careful about avoiding infection.
But it's still important for them to be careful, to avoid infecting those especially vulnerable, and to avoid the need for further shutdowns.
An emphasis on the __% chance of developing lingering and even debilitating side effects might encourage them to take more precautions to avoid infection.

This might sound silly, to expect that "not being able to work out" would be more of a deterrent than "chance of dying", but I vaguely remember something like this from an advertising campaign against smoking.  Young people were shown ads that targeted different harms of smoking, and their responses were something like this:
  • You'll get emphysema! What do I care? I'll be old then.
  • You'll get cancer! Maybe in 30 years.  So what?
  • You'll get heart disease! Yeah, doesn't everyone?
  • You'll get droopy, wrinkled skin!  Aaaargh! I'll be ugly?! Help me quit!
So hearing "You'll be too tired to dance" might motivate more young people to try to avoid infection.

Any specifics on the vision problems?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 03, 2020, 01:27:27 PM
Any specifics on the vision problems?
No, the 3 cases I posted about were all second-hand information, so I have no specifics.  Posted because I thought others might! 

And from Google it seems that there have not been any reports of serious visual problems after covid, but if they do occur, there's a theory that could explain it. 

from the Roski Eye Institute
https://eye.keckmedicine.org/how-covid-19-affects-the-eyes/

Is it true that pink eye is an early sign of COVID-19?

Yes, pinkeye, or conjunctivitis, has been reported to be a possible sign of infection from COVID-19. It is still uncertain exactly what percentage of patients with COVID-19 have ocular manifestations and different sources are reporting different numbers.

Although a recent study in JAMA Ophthalmology* reported up to one-third of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 had ocular abnormalities, more studies are still needed. Of course, causes of conjunctivitis that are not COVID-19 related continue to persist.


Can COVID-19 cause temporary or permanent damage to your eyes (perhaps from lack of oxygen)?


Although conjunctivitis, which is a temporary condition, has been linked to COVID-19, at this point permanent eye damage from COVID-19 has not been reported. If a patient were in respiratory distress long enough, theoretically poor perfusion and oxygen deprivation could lead to possible damage to metabolically active tissues, such as the optic nerve or retina, but this has yet to be reported in COVID-19 related cases. In this instance, eye damage would be caused by decreased oxygen, rather than the virus itself.

*This seems to be a reference to the early report that described conjunctivitis in many patients in China.

From the American Academy of Opthalmology
https://www.aao.org/eye-health/tips-prevention/covid-chloroquine-hydroxychloroquine-plaquenil

HCQ can cause retinal damage rarely, in those taking it long term for other diseases.  It's not expected to affect those who took HCQ for short-term covid treatment.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 03, 2020, 02:22:01 PM
What would motivate someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect to avoid reinfection?
Not sure which you're asking.
1. Why should someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect avoid reinfection?
2. What could we say that would persuade someone to take precautions to avoid reinfection?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 03, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Any specifics on the vision problems?

I don't know about any long-term vision issues, but I can definitely tell you that going shopping today, and I definitely had vision issues as a result of wearing a mask and having my glasses constantly fogged up....
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 03, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
What would motivate someone who had mild symptoms and no lingering effect to avoid reinfection?
There hasn't been a flood of people becoming reinfected.  Only a handful of people around the world are suspected of that happening and none are confirmed.
So the questions is moot.  A person who no longer has covid need not worry about reinfection.
A person experiencing symptoms, may potentially spread it to others. Appealing to their common decency may motivate them to be careful no to infect others.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 03, 2020, 04:29:32 PM
There hasn't been a flood of people becoming reinfected.  Only a handful of people around the world are suspected of that happening and none are confirmed.
So the questions is moot.  A person who no longer has covid need not worry about reinfection.
A person experiencing symptoms, may potentially spread it to others. Appealing to their common decency may motivate them to be careful no to infect others.

I'm not sure why you posit that this is a moot question. I can see a benefit for me being reinfected and actually getting a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Why would I want to avoid it?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 03, 2020, 04:34:13 PM
There hasn't been a flood of people becoming reinfected.  Only a handful of people around the world are suspected of that happening and none are confirmed.
That's exactly what reinfection would look like. It would start very gradually, as a few people start to lose immunity and come into contact with an infected person. 
Quote
A person experiencing symptoms, may potentially spread it to others. Appealing to their common decency may motivate them to be careful no to infect others.
More accurately:
A person experiencing symptoms, may have already spread it to others.
Transmission is highest a day or two before symptoms appear, so they need "common decency" before they know they're infected.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 03, 2020, 04:58:46 PM
I'm not sure why you posit that this is a moot question. I can see a benefit for me being reinfected and actually getting a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Why would I want to avoid it?
I assume you had it but have no antibodies?  I don't think you'll get it again.  Sorry. 
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 03, 2020, 05:02:06 PM
I assume you had it but have no antibodies?  I don't think you'll get it again.  Sorry.
Does the virus ask what you think?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 03, 2020, 05:16:24 PM
Does the virus ask what you think?
I know  you're convinced there's a wave of reinfections.  So far has not happened. 
We'll have to wait and see.  Would be wonderful if antibodies meant long term immunity.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 03, 2020, 05:24:11 PM
Does the virus ask what you think?
Luckily for @ckmk47 the virus doesnt care what you think either.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 03, 2020, 05:24:52 PM
I know  you're convinced there's a wave of reinfections.  So far has not happened. 
We'll have to wait and see.  Would be wonderful if antibodies meant long term immunity.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but in more than half the country, there is a wave of infections. Regarding the Jewish communities of the Tri-state area, no one thinks there is a wave of infections yet. That includes @biobook. What I'm not understanding, and I don't believe I'm alone in this, is why anyone in their right mind would wait for a wave in order to start to think about taking any precautions.

To your point on reinfections, there's a good chance you won't know 100% if you can get infected until it's too late. There have been a bunch of cases in CH this week of people testing positive with symptoms after having been sick months ago. It could be that it's not a reinfection, but just a flare-up of dormant virus. (Personally, that scares me a lot more, because once it's in you there's no avoiding it.) But if you're waiting for confirmation that it's a brand new infection, you'll likely only find out for sure if half of Brooklyn gets it again. And by then, it's too late.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 03, 2020, 05:30:07 PM
I don't know about any long-term vision issues, but I can definitely tell you that going shopping today, and I definitely had vision issues as a result of wearing a mask and having my glasses constantly fogged up....
I haven't left home without contact lenses in months!
 Big problem any entrepreneur want to take on the challenge?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 03, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
I know  you're convinced there's a wave of reinfections.  So far has not happened. 
We'll have to wait and see.  Would be wonderful if antibodies meant long term immunity.
No, not at all.  There's no evidence that there is a wave of reinfections. 
But there's also no reason for confidence that there won't be in the future.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 03, 2020, 05:34:54 PM
I haven't left home without contact lenses in months!
 Big problem any entrepreneur want to take on the challenge?
Fold up a piece of tissue and put it by the nose clip/clamp/thing.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 03, 2020, 05:40:39 PM
I assume you had it but have no antibodies?  I don't think you'll get it again.  Sorry.

How did you get to that assumption? I definitely did test positive for IgG antibodies, but I don't have a positive COVID-19 PCR test. I really would like to have one.

And I promise that I would self isolate once I get one, to satisfy the concern that:
Transmission is highest a day or two before symptoms appear, so they need "common decency" before they know they're infected.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 03, 2020, 05:44:40 PM
How did you get to that assumption? I definitely did test positive for IgG antibodies, but I don't have a positive COVID-19 PCR test. I really would like to have one.

And I promise that I would self isolate once I get one, to satisfy the concern that:
Why?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 03, 2020, 05:45:33 PM
Why?

1. Why not?
2. So that I can go to EY without having to quarantine for 14 days.
3. Who knows? There might be other benefits down the road that I can't think of right now. So far having childcare issues did allow me to take CARES Act withdrawals even though I didn't have a positive PCR test, but who knows what opportunities might be available in the future. It just seems like a good arrow to have in my quiver.


And
4. I can get to post all about it on DDF.  ;)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 03, 2020, 05:55:30 PM
Fold up a piece of tissue and put it by the nose clip/clamp/thing.
Speaking of masks not looking respectful....
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 03, 2020, 05:56:32 PM
Speaking of masks not looking respectful....
Doesn't need to be a big piece and it's on the interior; shouldn't be too noticeable.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 03, 2020, 05:59:18 PM
Speaking of masks not looking respectful....

Exactly! As long as masks look or seem like they're providing some sort of required protection, it's OK.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 12:02:35 AM
1. Why not?
2. So that I can go to EY without having to quarantine for 14 days.
3. Who knows? There might be other benefits down the road that I can't think of right now. So far having childcare issues did allow me to take CARES Act withdrawals even though I didn't have a positive PCR test, but who knows what opportunities might be available in the future. It just seems like a good arrow to have in my quiver.


And
4. I can get to post all about it on DDF.  ;)

Forgot to mention another good reason (though it's highly doubtful, as if I understand correctly reinfections are asymptomatic): During my bout with COVID-19 I managed to shed about 20lbs of bodyweight (and regained about 5 since). Dropping another 15lbs will get me even closer to my target weight.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on July 05, 2020, 12:13:07 AM
And I promise that I would self isolate once I get one

How would you self isolate in 770?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 12:16:50 AM
How would you self isolate in 770?

Good question. It's unbelievable what these past few months have caused. Prior to this it would have been totally אפגעפרעגט that I would be in Crown Heights without being in 770 every day.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on July 05, 2020, 01:30:05 AM
Good question. It's unbelievable what these past few months have caused. Prior to this it would have been totally אפגעפרעגט that I would be in Crown Heights without being in 770 every day.
The bigger question is that you are seeking eager to do it.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: gozalim on July 05, 2020, 04:52:50 AM
Forgot to mention another good reason (though it's highly doubtful, as if I understand correctly reinfections are asymptomatic): During my bout with COVID-19 I managed to shed about 20lbs of bodyweight (and regained about 5 since). Dropping another 15lbs will get me even closer to my target weight.
I'm not sure where you get that reinfections are asymptomatic
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on July 05, 2020, 09:01:06 AM
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Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 05, 2020, 09:28:05 AM
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@S209 "mood swings." Very astute observation.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 07, 2020, 01:45:09 PM
A couple more first-person descriptions of lingering effects, from a CNN business editor and a Broadway actor
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/health/richard-quest-covid-wellness-intl/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/03/us/broadway-actor-adam-perry-survives-covid-19-lingering-symptoms
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: mickeyg on July 07, 2020, 03:06:45 PM
I've lost my hearing and have tinnitus in my left ear....
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 07, 2020, 07:23:20 PM
I've lost my hearing and have tinnitus in my left ear....
I think you came home the same week I joined DDF, so I don't feel I can say welcome back, but at least hello!
Is the hearing loss complete?  How are you doing otherwise? 
There have been a few other reports of hearing loss, mostly in young people:
https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/hearing-loss-an-odd-covid-19-symptom-we-overlooked-6cdf81a5e70
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 07, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
I think you came home the same week I joined DDF, so I don't feel I can say welcome back, but at least hello!
Is the hearing loss complete?  How are you doing otherwise? 
There have been a few other reports of hearing loss, mostly in young people:
https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/hearing-loss-an-odd-covid-19-symptom-we-overlooked-6cdf81a5e70
Interesting - one of the links you posted earlier today mentioned that someone was having clumsiness issues...
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on July 07, 2020, 07:54:13 PM
Interesting - one of the links you posted earlier today mentioned that someone was having clumsiness issues...
Right, both hearing and balance depend on the inner ear, so these might indicate the virus having an effect there. 

The last paragraph of the article I linked is encouraging: 
Whether the hearing dysfunction persists for an extended period is not known due to the scar[c]e research on this matter; only three small studies so far. If the trend also follows other viruses, then the Covid-19-related hearing loss should not be permanent. Most cases of sudden hearing loss are viral, and most patients are treated with steroids, New York otolaryngologists at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai explained. Patients with mild degrees of hearing loss usually recover.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: moish on July 08, 2020, 05:59:00 AM
https://www.jpost.com/international/serious-brain-disorders-found-in-mild-recovering-covid-19-patients-634271
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 08, 2020, 08:37:42 AM
https://www.jpost.com/international/serious-brain-disorders-found-in-mild-recovering-covid-19-patients-634271

Wow. I wonder if the mood disorders speculated about on here would be caught by any of those tests.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on July 08, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Wow. I wonder if the mood disorders speculated about on here would be caught by any of those tests.
Speculated? We can see it firsthand with some posters.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 08, 2020, 10:34:23 AM
Speculated? We can see it firsthand with some posters.

I say speculated, because seeing with my own eyes isn't actual proof. I don't know what they're going through IRL that may be causing additional aggravation.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 10:32:42 PM
And more https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-brain-damage-dementia.html
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: doublejay on July 09, 2020, 07:52:55 AM


His videos are good - 13 min mark discuss HCQ
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 09, 2020, 08:31:38 AM


His videos are good - 13 min mark discuss HCQ
Who is this economist?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: incendia on July 09, 2020, 03:33:03 PM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: mickeyg on July 09, 2020, 09:53:05 PM
I think you came home the same week I joined DDF, so I don't feel I can say welcome back, but at least hello!
Is the hearing loss complete?  How are you doing otherwise? 
There have been a few other reports of hearing loss, mostly in young people:
https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/hearing-loss-an-odd-covid-19-symptom-we-overlooked-6cdf81a5e70
Yes, I've read that article, and I have 85% loss (severe loss) of hearing....looking into a cochlear implant right now to solve both problems.

Additionally, I will say that I have found that I my memory is severely lacking, both in terms of events and words. It takes me a lot longer to think of the correct words to say/write, and when speaking I will have a stutter. All neurological that aren't picked up on any scans...
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Ergel on July 10, 2020, 02:41:07 AM
Yes, I've read that article, and I have 85% loss (severe loss) of hearing....looking into a cochlear implant right now to solve both problems.

Additionally, I will say that I have found that I my memory is severely lacking, both in terms of events and words. It takes me a lot longer to think of the correct words to say/write, and when speaking I will have a stutter. All neurological that aren't picked up on any scans...
May you have a complete Refuah with the help of Hashem
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 12:21:25 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-09-20-intl/h_5125152a01f8c98d362cf15d6860ab37 (https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-09-20-intl/h_5125152a01f8c98d362cf15d6860ab37)

Quote
Fauci said the symptoms resemble those seen in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis, or ME, once known as chronic fatigue syndrome.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 14, 2020, 09:39:26 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/more-half-covid-19-patients-new-study-have-heart-damage
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ckmk47 on July 14, 2020, 10:56:24 PM
Yes, I've read that article, and I have 85% loss (severe loss) of hearing....looking into a cochlear implant right now to solve both problems.

Since a cochlear implant is permanent, I think  you should wait a lot longer to see if the covid symptoms abate or hopefully clear completely before you make that commitment. 
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on July 28, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
https://theweek.com/speedreads/927908/even-mild-coronavirus-cases-cause-lasting-cardiovascular-damage-study-shows
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 28, 2020, 06:54:11 PM
Was going to post that.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on August 08, 2020, 11:45:17 PM
From Chinese state run media


90% of recovered COVID-19 patients still have lung damage: report
 (https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1196716.shtml)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on August 09, 2020, 12:11:08 AM
From Chinese state run media


90% of recovered COVID-19 patients still have lung damage: report
 (https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1196716.shtml)
90/100 hospitalized patients
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on August 18, 2020, 12:52:26 AM
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-08-18-20-intl/h_8a611dffff28764310b7e62bc1e55be7
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on August 18, 2020, 10:38:23 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/opinion/covid-19-heart-disease.html?smid=em-share
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Luvisrael on August 18, 2020, 10:51:57 PM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on August 19, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/long-haulers-covid-19-recognition-support-groups-symptoms/615382/
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on August 20, 2020, 11:02:20 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7355084/
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on August 20, 2020, 11:20:34 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7355084/
I made a better case than them. This paper is pure speculation.
What is already known and what are long term concerns about lingering effects of COVID-19 after recovery or for those who have had mild no clear known symptoms?
I would include long term effects and morbidity of any intubation.
We have seen articles about effects on the lungs of young people with few symptoms. Are there any follow up studies about how those healed over time?
We have seen reports of the virus residing in testicles. What kind of effects can that have on future fertility and future birth defects?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: EliJelly on August 21, 2020, 12:44:47 AM
I'm experiencing it myself and heard it from others too. I developed a certain weird and unpleasant taste in certain foods. This started in the beginning of July, and I had my COVID symptoms -total loss of taste and smell for a few days, with no other symptoms whatsoever- in late March. I would feel the same distinct bad taste every time I would eat that particular food. Anybody else experiencing this?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ar on August 21, 2020, 12:54:40 AM
I'm experiencing it myself and heard it from others too. I developed a certain weird and unpleasant taste in certain foods. This started in the beginning of July, and I had my COVID symptoms -total loss of taste and smell for a few days, with no other symptoms whatsoever- in late March. I would feel the same distinct bad taste every time I would eat that particular food. Anybody else experiencing this?

I had Covid in March. Lost my taste and smell for 2 weeks. Since then certain foods taste like poison (for example: Coke)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: EliJelly on August 21, 2020, 12:56:56 AM
I had Covid in March. Lost my taste and smell for 2 weeks. Since then certain foods taste like poison (for example: Coke)
Yup cola is one of them by me too. Weirdly, peppers is the worst.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Yard sale on August 21, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401240
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: EliJelly on August 21, 2020, 01:12:12 AM
https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401240
Interesting. I'm not a big believer and I would have said it's all דמיונות haven't I seen it for myself
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Yard sale on August 21, 2020, 01:13:35 AM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3733708/

Seems like it can be a pretty big deal
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: davidmal on August 21, 2020, 01:39:20 AM
I'm experiencing it myself and heard it from others too. I developed a certain weird and unpleasant taste in certain foods. This started in the beginning of July, and I had my COVID symptoms -total loss of taste and smell for a few days, with no other symptoms whatsoever- in late March. I would feel the same distinct bad taste every time I would eat that particular food. Anybody else experiencing this?
Yup cola is one of them by me too. Weirdly, peppers is the worst.
ages?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on August 21, 2020, 07:40:48 AM
I'm experiencing it myself and heard it from others too. I developed a certain weird and unpleasant taste in certain foods. This started in the beginning of July, and I had my COVID symptoms -total loss of taste and smell for a few days, with no other symptoms whatsoever- in late March. I would feel the same distinct bad taste every time I would eat that particular food. Anybody else experiencing this?
eggs?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: EliJelly on August 21, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
ages?
30
eggs?
No problems b'h
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on August 21, 2020, 10:49:17 AM
Interesting, I heard about a few people who can't stand the smell of hard boiled eggs.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lou Bob on August 21, 2020, 11:07:27 AM
Interesting, I heard about a few people who can't stand the smell of hard boiled eggs.
that's been around since way before covid 🤭
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yungermanchik on August 21, 2020, 11:12:01 AM
I had Covid in March. Lost my taste and smell for 2 weeks. Since then certain foods taste like poison (for example: Coke)
DW has it with smells of onion and garlic (all forms- powder roasted..) but oddly not with the taste.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on August 21, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
that's been around since way before covid 🤭
not for these people though :D
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: LNS on August 21, 2020, 11:17:03 AM
anyone have any issue with hair loss?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on August 21, 2020, 11:20:45 AM
anyone have any issue with hair loss?
I've heard it from a few.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: LNS on August 21, 2020, 11:33:38 AM
I've heard it from a few.

did you hear of anything that helps?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on August 21, 2020, 11:38:51 AM
did you hear of anything that helps?
Don't boil eggs...

One person recently reported a reduction in the offensiveness of the smell, so hopefully this is still temporary
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on August 21, 2020, 11:57:17 AM
Don't boil eggs...

One person recently reported a reduction in the offensiveness of the smell, so hopefully this is still temporary
New hair loss remedy? lol
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: etech0 on August 21, 2020, 12:03:00 PM
New hair loss remedy? lol
:D
Or put onions in your socks
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: LNS on August 21, 2020, 12:22:39 PM
wow the benefits of quoting have once again been revealed to me lol
sorry about that ...was asking if anyone knows of something that helps with the hair loss

thanks  ;)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on August 27, 2020, 11:14:39 PM
https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/26/long-haulers-dilemma-many-cannot-prove-they-had-covid19/
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: 4yourinfo on August 28, 2020, 09:36:58 AM
did you hear of anything that helps?
Did you try zinc? There's been a lot of talk about zinc deficiency and this virus - I took zinc and the couple of things I noticed was hair regrowth on my bald head. Try it and Please update with the results
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on September 15, 2020, 02:48:01 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/us/long-haul-coronavirus-father-son/index.html
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on September 24, 2020, 02:37:30 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-populist-politicians-to-blame-for-soaring-virus-rates/

""Netanyahu says 59 people have died since last night, This is a terrible price.

He says hes read a lot of research that says 20% of those who recover, including the young, will suffer chronic complications as a result of COVID-19.

An entire generation, hundreds of thousands, who will carry scars for the rest of their lives, he says.""
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yuneeq on September 29, 2020, 04:22:36 PM
Know someone that just suffered from a major stroke, in early 40's. It's very rare for someone that age to have a stroke, but COVID has been strongly linked to strokes in younger patients. He had mild COVID in March, so if in fact it's connected (and I think it likely is) this is another issue to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on September 29, 2020, 04:27:17 PM
Know someone that just suffered from a major stroke, in early 40's. It's very rare for someone that age to have a stroke, but COVID has been strongly linked to strokes in younger patients. He had mild COVID in March, so if in fact it's connected (and I think it likely is) this is another issue to keep an eye on.

Indeed rare, but definitely not unheard of to have a stroke at a (relatively) young age. Definitely, COVID-19 connection should be investigated, as blood clots have been reported as one of the effects of COVID-19.
Title: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on September 29, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
Know someone that just suffered from a major stroke, in early 40's. It's very rare for someone that age to have a stroke, but COVID has been strongly linked to strokes in younger patients. He had mild COVID in March, so if in fact it's connected (and I think it likely is) this is another issue to keep an eye on.
There was a young lady in Lkwd who had covid; a few months later had a torn artery and required a heart transplant. I wonder if there's any correlation.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: flyingace on September 29, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
There was a young lady in Lkwd who had covid; a few months later had a torn artery and required a heart transplant. I wonder if there's any correlation.
Ditto for the heart attack in the 50 something year old and a stroke in a middle-aged woman. I think the doctors in all those cases believe Covid is implicated.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on September 29, 2020, 06:27:52 PM
There is probably also correlation with unhealthy lifestyle (obesity) and likelihood of contracting Covid
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yuneeq on October 01, 2020, 08:00:45 PM
Friends wife in early 20s developed asthma-like breathing issues since getting mild case of COVID in March. Hasnt gone away yet.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 03:23:38 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/covid-is-harming-sperm-israeli-researchers-say-raising-infertility-worries/

Nothing to see here...
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 03:28:59 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/covid-is-harming-sperm-israeli-researchers-say-raising-infertility-worries/

Nothing to see here...

We have seen reports of the virus residing in testicles. What kind of effects can that have on future fertility and future birth defects?

Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 03:29:32 PM


Yep, thought of that immediately when I saw the headline.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on October 08, 2020, 03:37:35 PM

Yeah, you've been on this since March.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Agoldsc1 on October 09, 2020, 11:42:33 AM
Know someone that just suffered from a major stroke, in early 40's. It's very rare for someone that age to have a stroke, but COVID has been strongly linked to strokes in younger patients. He had mild COVID in March, so if in fact it's connected (and I think it likely is) this is another issue to keep an eye on.

One of my good friends had a very serious stroke and he's 35. Had to be resuscitated twice on the way to the hospital, but BH he's OK. He's a little overweight but he also works out with a trainer 4x a week. Doctors tested him after for the traditional causes of a stroke (high blood pressure, build-up in arteries, etc...) but all came back normal. He had a mild case of COVID a few months before the stoke...
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on October 09, 2020, 01:30:11 PM
One of my good friends had a very serious stroke and he's 35. Had to be resuscitated twice on the way to the hospital, but BH he's OK. He's a little overweight but he also works out with a trainer 4x a week. Doctors tested him after for the traditional causes of a stroke (high blood pressure, build-up in arteries, etc...) but all came back normal. He had a mild case of COVID a few months before the stoke...

Very scary. What does hes okay mean? Is he stable or are all his mental/cognitive/motor faculties on the up and up?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Agoldsc1 on October 09, 2020, 03:30:15 PM
Very scary. What does hes okay mean? Is he stable or are all his mental/cognitive/motor faculties on the up and up?

As far as I know, he's totally fine and the same as before the stroke. He spent a few nights in the hospital and that was it. No rehab or anything else of the sort.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on October 09, 2020, 03:47:25 PM
As far as I know, he's totally fine and the same as before the stroke. He spent a few nights in the hospital and that was it. No rehab or anything else of the sort.

BH, hopefully the worst is behind him and hell bezh be and stay well.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yuneeq on October 19, 2020, 01:37:41 PM
Since a cochlear implant is permanent, I think  you should wait a lot longer to see if the covid symptoms abate or hopefully clear completely before you make that commitment.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/nj-man-gets-cochlear-implant-due-to-hearing-loss-from-covid-19/
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on October 21, 2020, 11:05:13 PM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/10/a-gizinte-vinter.html

BH, over the summer,  Lakewood saw almost no Corona cases and went almost 3 months without a single hospitalization for new cases. However, it wasnt truly a reprieve from COVID as we were dealing with the aftermath of the first wave including recovered patients suffered later Covid-related repercussions including quite a few cardiac/clot-related and an unfortunate uptick in miscarriages.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 22, 2020, 12:49:23 AM

Scary!!!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on November 04, 2020, 03:40:39 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/doctors-begin-to-crack-covids-mysterious-long-term-effects-11604252961
Title: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on November 10, 2020, 10:50:28 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-mental-illness-int-idUSKBN27P35N

Quote
Many COVID-19 survivors are likely to be at greater risk of developing mental illness, psychiatrists said on Monday, after a large study found 20% of those infected with the coronavirus are diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder within 90 days.
This has been discussed on DDF many times (anecdotes); this study seems to confirm it.

Study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30462-4/fulltext
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on November 10, 2020, 10:29:14 PM
We have seen reports of the virus residing in testicles. What kind of effects can that have on future fertility and future birth defects?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/covid-is-harming-sperm-israeli-researchers-say-raising-infertility-worries/

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-can-affect-male-fertility-researchers-say

Quote
Im fairly certain, just like mumps, about 20 to 30% of men are going to have some sort of affected fertility in their future, Dr. Ramasamy said.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Jellybelly on November 11, 2020, 03:32:14 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-mental-illness-int-idUSKBN27P35N
This has been discussed on DDF many times (anecdotes); this study seems to confirm it.

Study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30462-4/fulltext
It probably has just as much to do with the lockdown and the doomsday scenarios being talked about all day than the disease itself
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on November 11, 2020, 03:38:24 PM
It probably has just as much to do with the lockdown and the doomsday scenarios being talked about all day than the disease itself

Why would that affect those who had tested positive more than others?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on December 08, 2020, 12:26:18 AM
It probably has just as much to do with the lockdown and the doomsday scenarios being talked about all day than the disease itself
Of course. Why let facts get in the way of opinion?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 08, 2020, 12:30:54 AM
It probably has just as much to do with the lockdown and the doomsday scenarios being talked about all day than the disease itself
Nah it's the mockery and ridicule from Covid deniers that's frustrating them and driving them nuts
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on December 08, 2020, 12:52:43 AM
Friends wife in early 20s developed asthma-like breathing issues since getting mild case of COVID in March. Hasnt gone away yet.

Sounds like me except that I didn't have what I would call a mild case, and I've received an actual diagnosis of asthma and have been placed on medication (bh controls symptoms well). The doctor wasn't too surprised- says he has quite a few patients who are young and fit before covid who've come in with asthma-like symptoms after suffering from covid. Common denominator seems to be hypoxia during covid, which appears to have done the damage. Obviously he can't know if it's chronic, but he didn't seem too optimistic. For now I'm doing followups every 3 months to see if it's better/worse.

My question- not that it matters much now (and the doc wasn't helpful) is:

a) is it as a result of not seeking treatment (an impossibility unless I wanted to end up on a respirator in March- we know where those people mostly ended up) and oxegyn or a bronchial dilator would have helped?
Or
b) is the damage as a result of the actual virus and my body dueling in which case there's very little to nothing currently on the market that could have treated me to prevent damage.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on December 08, 2020, 12:59:30 AM
My question- not that it matters much now (and the doc wasn't helpful) is:

a) is it as a result of not seeking treatment (an impossibility unless I wanted to end up on a respirator in March- we know where those people mostly ended up) and oxegyn or a bronchial dilator would have helped?
Or
b) is the damage as a result of the actual virus and my body dueling in which case there's very little to nothing currently on the market that could have treated me to prevent damage.
Were you taking any albuterol or oxygen at the time?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yuneeq on December 08, 2020, 01:02:29 AM
Sounds like me except that I didn't have what I would call a mild case

I used the term mild in the medical sense, that if you weren't hospitalized you were considered mild. It could be you had worse, but as a general rule many people with "mild" COVID had the worst illness of their lifetime.

Quote
I've received an actual diagnosis of asthma and have been placed on medication (bh controls symptoms well). The doctor wasn't too surprised- says he has quite a few patients who are young and fit before covid who've come in with asthma-like symptoms after suffering from covid. Common denominator seems to be hypoxia during covid, which appears to have done the damage. Obviously he can't know if it's chronic, but he didn't seem too optimistic. For now I'm doing followups every 3 months to see if it's better/worse.

My question- not that it matters much now (and the doc wasn't helpful) is:

a) is it as a result of not seeking treatment (an impossibility unless I wanted to end up on a respirator in March- we know where those people mostly ended up) and oxegyn or a bronchial dilator would have helped?
Or
b) is the damage as a result of the actual virus and my body dueling in which case there's very little to nothing currently on the market that could have treated me to prevent damage.

I don't understand your question, but would like to say - refuah shelema bim'hera!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on December 08, 2020, 01:47:39 AM
It could be you had worse, but as a general rule many people with "mild" COVID had the worst illness of their lifetime.
+1

My brother, a fierce COVID denier who BH did not need to be hospitalized, said he would do almost anything to avoid what he went through for 3 weeks again. He said he never felt so miserable, or sick for so long. There are also many who lose their sense of smell or taste for days/weeks/months/forever.

Then again, many people have nothing but a cold and fever (at least in the short term).
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on December 08, 2020, 03:37:27 AM
Sounds like me except that I didn't have what I would call a mild case, and I've received an actual diagnosis of asthma and have been placed on medication (bh controls symptoms well). The doctor wasn't too surprised- says he has quite a few patients who are young and fit before covid who've come in with asthma-like symptoms after suffering from covid. Common denominator seems to be hypoxia during covid, which appears to have done the damage. Obviously he can't know if it's chronic, but he didn't seem too optimistic. For now I'm doing followups every 3 months to see if it's better/worse.

My question- not that it matters much now (and the doc wasn't helpful) is:

a) is it as a result of not seeking treatment (an impossibility unless I wanted to end up on a respirator in March- we know where those people mostly ended up) and oxegyn or a bronchial dilator would have helped?
Or
b) is the damage as a result of the actual virus and my body dueling in which case there's very little to nothing currently on the market that could have treated me to prevent damage.

b) seems much more likely to me.  There's a theory that when asthma first appears in adulthood, it may be related to some respiratory infection (among other possible causes).  So may be related to having a viral infection, not necessarily unique to coronavirus. Here's one review article from 2013:

Adult-onset asthma: is it really different?

https://err.ersjournals.com/content/22/127/44

The occurrence of acute lower respiratory infections is strongly
associated with the risk of new adult-onset asthma [72]. The
link between respiratory infections and the development of
asthma in adulthood has been proposed for many decades [73],
although it is still unclear how respiratory infections might
induce asthma. Age-related altered antigen presentation and
decreased specific antibody responses may lead to subtle
immune deficiencies that may allow respiratory infections to
provoke injury to the airways. This, in turn, may set up a
vicious cycle of an ongoing inflammatory process leading to
asthma [74]. Another explanation is that respiratory pathogens
may act as triggers of asthma onset to other factors, such as
environmental exposures.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cholent on December 08, 2020, 07:25:10 AM
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on December 08, 2020, 07:37:40 AM
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1

Scary!!!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on December 08, 2020, 11:58:31 AM
Were you taking any albuterol or oxygen at the time?

No. There was no way to get care other than hospitalization, which I felt was to be used as a last resort only.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on December 08, 2020, 12:01:07 PM
I used the term mild in the medical sense, that if you weren't hospitalized you were considered mild. It could be you had worse, but as a general rule many people with "mild" COVID had the worst illness of their lifetime.
Gotcha- I guess I had a 'mild' case then... my oxygen hovered in the low 90s to upper 80s.

I don't understand your question, but would like to say - refuah shelema bim'hera!
Thank you:)

To rephrase: I'm wondering if what is currently available to relieve breathing difficulties, like oxygen or steroids, would have prevented long term damage as well, or if the damage is as a result of the virus itself, and relieving symptoms wouldn't have prevented long term damage.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on December 08, 2020, 12:02:54 PM
No. There was no way to get care other than hospitalization, which I felt was to be used as a last resort only.
You were probably right.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 08, 2020, 12:03:05 PM
Gotcha- I guess I had a 'mild' case then... my oxygen hovered in the low 90s to upper 80s.
Thank you:)

To rephrase: I'm wondering if what is currently available to relieve breathing difficulties, like oxygen or steroids, would have prevented long term damage as well, or if the damage is as a result of the virus itself, and relieving symptoms wouldn't have prevented long term damage.
To my understanding, steroids can suppress the immune system and impact that actual progression of the virus
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on December 08, 2020, 12:06:18 PM
b) seems much more likely to me.  There's a theory that when asthma first appears in adulthood, it may be related to some respiratory infection (among other possible causes).  So may be related to having a viral infection, not necessarily unique to coronavirus. Here's one review article from 2013:

Adult-onset asthma: is it really different?

https://err.ersjournals.com/content/22/127/44

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on December 08, 2020, 12:09:29 PM
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1
Is it peer reviewed yet?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Ergel on December 16, 2020, 07:49:02 AM
My wife teaches in a seminary in Israel (over 90% of the students contracted Covid around rosh hashannah) and was doing a Chanukah program which involved blowing up balloons. 4(!) of the 30 girls in her class could not blow up balloons due to decreased lung capacity since having Covid
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on December 16, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
My wife teaches in a seminary in Israel (over 90% of the students contracted Covid around rosh hashannah) and was doing a Chanukah program which involved blowing up balloons. 4(!) of the 30 girls in her class could not blow up balloons due to decreased lung capacity since having Covid
I was never able to blow up balloons.....
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: KSMH on December 16, 2020, 12:31:42 PM
My wife teaches in a seminary in Israel (over 90% of the students contracted Covid around rosh hashannah) and was doing a Chanukah program which involved blowing up balloons. 4(!) of the 30 girls in her class could not blow up balloons due to decreased lung capacity since having Covid

Who said this has to do with Covid - possibly an all life problem.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Ergel on December 16, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
Who said this has to do with Covid - possibly an all life problem.
The girls told my wife
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 16, 2020, 01:57:18 PM
Who said this has to do with Covid - possibly an all life problem.
Every single medical study that researched it
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Ergel on December 16, 2020, 02:04:09 PM
Who said this has to do with Covid - possibly an all life problem.
I don't get it, my wife was there. Do you have such a hard time believing this is true as to deny a first hand account of the story. You think my wife just made it up?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on December 16, 2020, 02:05:34 PM
My wife teaches in a seminary in Israel (over 90% of the students contracted Covid around rosh hashannah) and was doing a Chanukah program which involved blowing up balloons. 4(!) of the 30 girls in her class could not blow up balloons due to decreased lung capacity since having Covid
Who said this has to do with Covid - possibly an all life problem.
We discussed this in July.  An Israeli doctor found that 50% of recovered Covid patients had respiratory problems, but I think he was looking specifically at those who had been hospitalized.  He was starting to research how common this was among others who had recovered, and the phone number to sign up was in this article.  https://www.jpost.com/health-science/50-percent-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-from-weakness-distress-after-recovery-633072
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on December 16, 2020, 02:13:08 PM
We discussed this in July.  An Israeli doctor found that 50% of recovered Covid patients had respiratory problems, but I think he was looking specifically at those who had been hospitalized.  He was starting to research how common this was among others who had recovered, and the phone number to sign up was in this article.  https://www.jpost.com/health-science/50-percent-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-from-weakness-distress-after-recovery-633072
Any studies like this in the US? The one in the article is for Israeli residents.
Although wondering if doctors network on this and report patients experiencing recurring symptoms to a global or national database. I know my pulmonologist was careful to note down all the details- when I had covid and what my symptoms were, any colds/respiratory viruses I experienced after that that could have worsened my condition, etc.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on December 16, 2020, 02:38:33 PM
Any studies like this in the US? The one in the article is for Israeli residents.
Although wondering if doctors network on this and report patients experiencing recurring symptoms to a global or national database. I know my pulmonologist was careful to note down all the details- when I had covid and what my symptoms were, any colds/respiratory viruses I experienced after that that could have worsened my condition, etc.
The Israeli report was much earlier in the pandemic, and referred to those who had been severely ill and hospitalized, so the expectation is that lung effects would be less common among those who had milder cases.  Here's a more recent summary of respiratory effects, from a hospital system in Cincinnati, and includes this encouraging paragraph:

Can lung damage from this virus be reversed in any way? How likely is an infected person able to recover and regain lung function?
Current treatments are effective in reducing the amount of initial damage, reducing the severity, aimed at reducing the amount of propagating injury and the duration. Depending on the severity of respiratory inflammation and damage, as well as patient comorbidities, duration of injury and genetics, patients can see improvement in their lung function. Analogous to having pneumonia, over time, patients lung function can recover. Looking at previous experience with SARS and MERS coronaviruses, studies following patients after developing pulmonary fibrosis showed that pulmonary lesions diminished primarily in the first year after recovery. In cases of severe inflammation, the challenge is with the development of pulmonary fibrosis. Chronic inflammation has been considered as the main cause of pulmonary fibrosis and may lead to epithelial damage and fibroblast activation. Studies are ongoing that test antifibrotic agents.
 
https://www.uchealth.com/en/media-room/covid-19/short-and-long-term-lung-damage-from-covid-19

Re: Is anyone in USA studying long-term effects of Covid on the lungs, I am sure that the answer is yes, because, basically, that's what doctors/scientists like to do - research something important.  We had discussed earlier these studies were starting on long-term effects in general (not just on respiratory system):

Mount Sinai Hospital in NYC has set up a center to address these issues:
https://www.mountsinai.org/about/covid19/center-post-covid-care

This article mentions similar programs at Yale, Hopkins and "elsewhere".
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/health/coronavirus-recovery-survivors.html
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: cgr on December 16, 2020, 03:50:26 PM
The Israeli report was much earlier in the pandemic, and referred to those who had been severely ill and hospitalized, so the expectation is that lung effects would be less common among those who had milder cases.  Here's a more recent summary of respiratory effects, from a hospital system in Cincinnati, and includes this encouraging paragraph:

Can lung damage from this virus be reversed in any way? How likely is an infected person able to recover and regain lung function?
Current treatments are effective in reducing the amount of initial damage, reducing the severity, aimed at reducing the amount of propagating injury and the duration. Depending on the severity of respiratory inflammation and damage, as well as patient comorbidities, duration of injury and genetics, patients can see improvement in their lung function. Analogous to having pneumonia, over time, patients lung function can recover. Looking at previous experience with SARS and MERS coronaviruses, studies following patients after developing pulmonary fibrosis showed that pulmonary lesions diminished primarily in the first year after recovery. In cases of severe inflammation, the challenge is with the development of pulmonary fibrosis. Chronic inflammation has been considered as the main cause of pulmonary fibrosis and may lead to epithelial damage and fibroblast activation. Studies are ongoing that test antifibrotic agents.
 
https://www.uchealth.com/en/media-room/covid-19/short-and-long-term-lung-damage-from-covid-19

Re: Is anyone in USA studying long-term effects of Covid on the lungs, I am sure that the answer is yes, because, basically, that's what doctors/scientists like to do - research something important.  We had discussed earlier these studies were starting on long-term effects in general (not just on respiratory system):

Appreciate the detailed answer! Will look into it.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: EliJelly on December 16, 2020, 10:11:33 PM
I don't get it, my wife was there. Do you have such a hard time believing this is true as to deny a first hand account of the story. You think my wife just made it up?
He probably didn't question the story, he asked who can prove it as a result of covid, as in:
I was never able to blow up balloons.....
Some people always have difficulties blowing up balloons. How many of you can blow up a water balloon? :)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on December 16, 2020, 10:24:19 PM
He probably didn't question the story, he asked who can prove it as a result of covid, as in:Some people always have difficulties blowing up balloons. How many of you can blow up a water balloon? :)
Are there really regular people who have issues blowing up a balloon? I always thought I just never learned how to do it right.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: EliJelly on December 16, 2020, 10:57:59 PM
Are there really regular people who have issues blowing up a balloon? I always thought I just never learned how to do it right.
Sure. Kids especially. And depends on the balloon type too.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: TimT on December 16, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
Are there really regular people who have issues blowing up a balloon?
Sure. As in gasping for air after a few tries.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: David61 on December 16, 2020, 11:34:53 PM
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/22166236/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-symptoms-heart-fatigue

Wow! This should get more attention!

Makes the argument for the vaccine all the more compelling for the young and healthy.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 17, 2020, 12:19:58 AM
Wow! This should get more attention!
It's getting plenty of attention, it's our community that needs to take its head out of the sand
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on December 17, 2020, 11:27:00 PM
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/22166236/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-symptoms-heart-fatigue

Wow! This should get more attention!

Makes the argument for the vaccine all the more compelling for the young and healthy.

How prevalent is this? Is it correlated to severity or mild/asymptomatic infections can result in this at equal rates?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on December 18, 2020, 01:52:45 AM
Sure. As in gasping for air after a few tries.
Wow. I don't gasp for air. I just can't get it to blow up. :)
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: gozalim on December 18, 2020, 12:39:09 PM
Wow. I don't gasp for air. I just can't get it to blow up. :)
maybe bells palsy affecting ability to seal lips properly
Jk
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: avromie7 on December 18, 2020, 12:51:04 PM
How prevalent is this? Is it correlated to severity or mild/asymptomatic infections can result in this at equal rates?
Considering that the person in the article was on a vent for 31 days, I would say yes.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on January 10, 2021, 12:23:48 PM
I just spoke to someone who claims COVID-19 made his wife diabetic. Are there any other such claims/anecdotes going around?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: good sam on January 10, 2021, 12:37:26 PM
Are there really regular people who have issues blowing up a balloon? I always thought I just never learned how to do it right.
If the balloon isn't inflating, the problem is not enough pressure. You are most likely blowing from air stored in your cheeks and not directly from your lungs. Try it now without a balloon and feel the difference.
Title: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on January 10, 2021, 12:40:15 PM
I just spoke to someone who claims COVID-19 made his wife diabetic. Are there any other such claims/anecdotes going around?
I have a friend who's part of Renewal (kidney transplant org) and he says that the transplants required numbers are up dramatically.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on January 10, 2021, 12:41:11 PM
If the balloon isn't inflating, the problem is not enough pressure. You are most likely blowing from air stored in your cheeks and not directly from your lungs. Try it now without a balloon and feel the difference.
That makes perfect sense. I have issues in general with talking/singing. How do I teach myself to blow and breathe from my lungs?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on January 10, 2021, 12:42:27 PM
That makes perfect sense. I have issues in general with talking/singing. How do I teach myself to blow and breathe from my lungs?
Just be happy that you're not a blowhard.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on January 10, 2021, 01:03:38 PM
I have a friend who's part of Renewal (kidney transplant org) and he says that the transplants required numbers are up dramatically.

That could be a totally different issue. It could be other reasons for kidney failure, and it could be existing DM being worsened.

I am talking about a brand new diagnosis of Diabetes as an outcome of COVID-19 infection/disease. This is the first time I heard about it, and given the personality of the source of this I am a little skeptical, so I am trying to find out if there are any such DP known.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on January 10, 2021, 01:08:44 PM
Just be happy that you're not a blowhard.
Well, blowhards are always from a lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 10, 2021, 01:12:15 PM
That could be a totally different issue. It could be other reasons for kidney failure, and it could be existing DM being worsened.

I am talking about a brand new diagnosis of Diabetes as an outcome of COVID-19 infection/disease. This is the first time I heard about it, and given the personality of the source of this I am a little skeptical, so I am trying to find out if there are any such DP known.
It's a known phenomenon, I don't know how prevalent it is, and it may be too early to know.

 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688

Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on January 10, 2021, 01:23:03 PM
It's a known phenomenon, I don't know how prevalent it is, and it may be too early to know.

 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688

Thanks for sharing that link. Seems like there's a lot of unknowns here.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on January 10, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
That makes perfect sense. I have issues in general with talking/singing. How do I teach myself to blow and breathe from my lungs?
Take singing lessons?  Or google "breathing lessons for singers" for the DIY version.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on January 11, 2021, 04:11:39 PM
I just spoke to someone who claims COVID-19 made his wife diabetic. Are there any other such claims/anecdotes going around?
I wonder if she is overweight and hasn't seen a doctor for years until COVID.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on January 11, 2021, 05:04:37 PM
I wonder if she is overweight and hasn't seen a doctor for years until COVID.

Maybe it was diet changes since March?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on January 11, 2021, 08:14:15 PM
Maybe it was diet changes since March?
Also possible. Less exercise under lockdown?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on January 11, 2021, 08:22:17 PM
Would < 1 year of lifestyle change trigger Type 2?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on January 11, 2021, 09:15:02 PM
Would < 1 year of lifestyle change trigger Type 2?
If someone was getting close without it
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: ExGingi on January 11, 2021, 09:31:48 PM
I wonder if she is overweight and hasn't seen a doctor for years until COVID.

I actually spoke to him again today and tried to figure out what was going on. He claims that she was getting regular checkups with her Dr. However, he also says that the diabetes was diagnosed during brief hospitalization for COVID-19. He didn't really seem to be aware of how diabetes manifests itself, so I wouldn't be surprised if she was borderline before and just got over the hump during covid.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on February 17, 2021, 08:27:12 AM
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/02/17/jayson-tatum-still-dealing-with-covid-19-impacts-i-think-it-messes-with-your-breathing/
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: pbf on February 17, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
I had COVID back in March. I lost my taste/smell, had fever, body aches etc for about a week or so but I was coughing for a really long time. I was coughing up phlegm for probably around 3 months.
For a few weeks, the cough got so bad that I must've bruised my ribs. Every time I needed to cough, I would have to clutch my body because it hurt so bad.
BH that went away after a few weeks. My smell fully returned after a few months, and I have no lingering symptoms.

However, since then, I have lingering pain in my rib. Every time I sneeze, or get up the wrong way from a lying down position, I feel pain in my rib.
I've been thinking I should go to the doctor, but can't imagine there's anything to do about it either way.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on February 17, 2021, 10:27:23 AM
I had COVID back in March. I lost my taste/smell, had fever, body aches etc for about a week or so but I was coughing for a really long time. I was coughing up phlegm for probably around 3 months.
For a few weeks, the cough got so bad that I must've bruised my ribs. Every time I needed to cough, I would have to clutch my body because it hurt so bad.
BH that went away after a few weeks. My smell fully returned after a few months, and I no lingering symptoms.

However, since then, I have lingering pain in my rib. Every time I sneeze, or get up the wrong way from a lying down position, I feel pain in my rib.
I've been thinking I should go to the doctor, but can't imagine there's anything to do about it either way.
Refuah shleima!
Maybe there's a fracture that didn't heal correctly?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: pbf on February 17, 2021, 10:48:29 AM
Refuah shleima!
Maybe there's a fracture that didn't heal correctly?

That's what I'm thinking. I don't think there's anything to do about that either way and I loathe doctors, so I'm ignoring it for now
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on February 17, 2021, 10:56:46 AM
That's what I'm thinking. I don't think there's anything to do about that either way and I loathe doctors, so I'm ignoring it for now
Why would you loathe doctors? Do you mean you loathe seeing a doctor?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: pbf on February 17, 2021, 10:59:21 AM
Why would you loathe doctors? Do you mean you loathe seeing a doctor?

Correct. I have nothing against (most) doctors
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on February 17, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
Correct. I have nothing against (most) doctors
I think it's is normal for bruised ribs to hurt for months afterwards. I once had a time where I was coughing constantly and even after it stopped my ribs would hurt me for months. It will get better and disappear with time. But can't hurt to go to a doctor to have it checked out.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on February 17, 2021, 03:38:57 PM
That makes perfect sense. I have issues in general with talking/singing. How do I teach myself to blow and breathe from my lungs?
Opera Singers Help Covid-19 Patients Learn to Breathe Again
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/arts/music/opera-singers-covid-19-treatment-eno-breathe.html
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 17, 2021, 06:18:35 PM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on February 17, 2021, 06:54:59 PM

They need a system to classify this and break it down to cohorts. People who have some minimal symptom doesnt compare to people who still have severe symptoms six months out.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on February 18, 2021, 12:58:34 AM
Opera Singers Help Covid-19 Patients Learn to Breathe Again
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/arts/music/opera-singers-covid-19-treatment-eno-breathe.html
Thanks!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 24, 2021, 01:07:02 PM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Dan on February 24, 2021, 01:12:59 PM
Wow
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 24, 2021, 01:16:44 PM
Wow
Should indicate vaccines are effective at preventing reactivations, though it may be placebo
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on February 24, 2021, 01:30:29 PM
Should indicate vaccines are effective at preventing reactivations, though it may be placebo
I am slightly hopeful, but there is a big chance that it is indeed the placebo effect taking place here.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Euclid on February 24, 2021, 01:45:59 PM
I am slightly hopeful, but there is a big chance that it is indeed the placebo effect taking place here.
40% is pretty high for a placebo effect no?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on February 24, 2021, 02:24:34 PM
40% is pretty high for a placebo effect no?
For symptoms that are hard to diagnose in the first place? Maybe, but I'm not convinced yet. Obviously, would be great if the vaccines helped for this, too.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yungermanchik on February 24, 2021, 02:56:03 PM
For symptoms that are hard to diagnose in the first place? Maybe, but I'm not convinced yet. Obviously, would be great if the vaccines helped for this, too.
"heard" immunity would help for that too!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 24, 2021, 03:30:26 PM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on February 24, 2021, 03:31:44 PM

This is why Covid will never go away.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on February 24, 2021, 03:33:12 PM
This is why Covid will never go away.

Long COVID, or the government using it as an excuse to burn money?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on February 24, 2021, 03:36:59 PM
Long COVID, or the government using it as an excuse to burn money?

Long Covid, chronic Covid, recurring Covid, Covid Pro, Covid MAX, Covid XL... this is going to be the new corporate and government cash cow. They're going to milk this for at least a decade.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 01, 2021, 09:27:21 PM
Quote
הסיבולת הגופנית של מחלימי הקורונה בגיל ממוצע של 45 שווה לסיבולת הגופנית של בני 80!!

https://hospitals.clalit.co.il/rabin/he/Pages/default.aspx
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2021, 03:09:17 PM
https://s3.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/asset/The%20Impact%20of%20COVID-19%20on%20Pediatric%20Mental%20Health%20-%20A%20Study%20of%20Private%20Healthcare%20Claims%20-%20A%20FAIR%20Health%20White%20Paper.pdf
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 05, 2021, 03:05:47 PM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 31, 2021, 11:51:47 AM
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on March 31, 2021, 04:15:25 PM

Basically confirms what was already suspected, that long-COVID is a cytokine storm that wont calm down.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2021, 03:10:21 PM
Study after 3 months: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30462-4/fulltext

After 6 months: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(21)00084-5/fulltext#%20

Findings of neurological or psychiatric diagnosis in one of three people post-Covid.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2021, 03:47:02 PM
Study after 3 months: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30462-4/fulltext

After 6 months: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(21)00084-5/fulltext#%20

Findings of neurological or psychiatric diagnosis in one of three people post-Covid.

1/3 sounds crazy high. This is overall positive mild cases a subset (e.g. hospitalized, ventilated, severe, etc.)?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2021, 04:05:11 PM
1/3 sounds crazy high. This is overall positive mild cases a subset (e.g. hospitalized, ventilated, severe, etc.)?

I have a bunch of questions about it. There are a lot of other variables which would add a lot of color to this picture. Looks like a third of those with diagnoses were first-timers. How many people normally get diagnosed with something like this for the first time without Covid? The whole study could be worthless.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2021, 04:17:13 PM
I have a bunch of questions about it. There are a lot of other variables which would add a lot of color to this picture. Looks like a third of those with diagnoses were first-timers. How many people normally get diagnosed with something like this for the first time without Covid? The whole study could be worthless.

Considering there's a control group, how do the numbers compare? I had a hard time reading the summary of their findings, no idea what x.y numbers meant or how to interpret.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2021, 04:30:45 PM
Considering there's a control group, how do the numbers compare? I had a hard time reading the summary of their findings, no idea what x.y numbers meant or how to interpret.

That's why I post things here  :)

Quote
Most diagnostic categories were more common in patients who had COVID-19 than in those who had influenza (hazard ratio 144, 95% CI 140147, for any diagnosis; 178, 168189, for any first diagnosis) and those who had other respiratory tract infections (116, 114117, for any diagnosis; 132, 127136, for any first diagnosis). As with incidences, HRs were higher in patients who had more severe COVID-19 (eg, those admitted to ITU compared with those who were not: 158, 150167, for any diagnosis; 287, 245335, for any first diagnosis).

If someone can do the math on the hazard ratios and translate it into plain English, it would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
If someone can do the math on the hazard ratios and translate it into plain English, it would be appreciated.

This means ratio? Never understood how to interpret the two numbers and then the CI numbers in parenthesis. IIRC I read up on it and for a moment thought I understood what CI meant.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2021, 04:54:21 PM
This means ratio?

Yes

Never understood how to interpret the two numbers and then the CI numbers in parenthesis. IIRC I read up on it and for a moment thought I understood what CI meant.

@biobook @aygart or any docs?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
Yes
Never understood how to interpret the two numbers and then the CI numbers in parenthesis. IIRC I read up on it and for a moment thought I understood what CI meant.


@biobook @aygart or any docs?
not sure why I am tagged here.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on April 07, 2021, 05:08:52 PM

Never understood how to interpret the two numbers and then the CI numbers in parenthesis. IIRC I read up on it and for a moment thought I understood what CI meant.


@biobook @aygart or any docs?
Confidence Intervals?  Someone here knows statistics, maybe they can explain.  Maybe  @Chaimel6  or @skyguy918
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: skyguy918 on April 07, 2021, 05:50:35 PM
Confidence Intervals?  Someone here knows statistics, maybe they can explain.  Maybe  @Chaimel6  or @skyguy918
Don't know why I'm tagged here either, but '144, 95% CI 140147' means that the best guess for the true hazard ratio is 1:44. But there may be only a 50% chance that that exact value is the correct one. Confidence intervals give you a range in which the true value is likely to fall. So here there's a 95% chance that the true value falls between 1:40 and 1:47.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2021, 05:56:37 PM
Don't know why I'm tagged here either,

and then goes on to explain the statistics.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2021, 06:01:44 PM
not sure why I am tagged here.

Experience reading studies?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: aygart on April 07, 2021, 06:49:22 PM
Experience reading studies?
That does not mean that I will know anything and everything in these studies, but I now understand why you would tag me.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 07, 2021, 08:16:52 PM
Don't know why I'm tagged here either, but '144, 95% CI 140147' means that the best guess for the true hazard ratio is 1:44. But there may be only a 50% chance that that exact value is the correct one. Confidence intervals give you a range in which the true value is likely to fall. So here there's a 95% chance that the true value falls between 1:40 and 1:47.

Could you explain what those ratios represent here, practically speaking?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: skyguy918 on April 07, 2021, 08:29:29 PM
Could you explain what those ratios represent here, practically speaking?
Not really. But wiki says:
Quote
In its simplest form, the hazard ratio can be interpreted as the chance of an event occurring in the treatment arm divided by the chance of the event occurring in the control arm, or vice versa, of a study.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yuneeq on April 07, 2021, 08:33:03 PM
This means ratio? Never understood how to interpret the two numbers and then the CI numbers in parenthesis. IIRC I read up on it and for a moment thought I understood what CI meant.

No its a decimal.

6 month numbers are 31.7% for non-hospitalized patients, and 38.7% for hospitalized. Both are very high but the non-hospitalized number is shocking. The number in the parentheses is the range within the margin of error.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on April 07, 2021, 09:58:52 PM
No its a decimal.

6 month numbers are 31.7% for non-hospitalized patients, and 38.7% for hospitalized. Both are very high but the non-hospitalized number is shocking. The number in the parentheses is the range within the margin of error.

Thats a funny period. Wondering if they report broken down numbers that are significant, e.g. the vast majority might be anxiety, depression (potentially PTSD) and/or insomnia.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on April 08, 2021, 12:11:17 AM
Some of the news articles that summarize the Lancet article:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/06/health/covid-neurological-psychological-lancet-wellness/index.html
https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/06/1-in-3-covid19-patients-get-neuropsychiatric-diagnosis-within-six-months/
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: dasmo801 on April 09, 2021, 09:51:33 AM
Curious as to how these numbers compare to survivors of any other acute life threatening situation. Also, is there any indication that there is some organic component to this or is this simply a result of the trauma of contracting a life threatening illness during a global pandemic.   
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: avromie7 on April 09, 2021, 09:54:25 AM
Curious as to how these numbers compare to survivors of any other acute life threatening situation. Also, is there any indication that there is some organic component to this or is this simply a result of the trauma of contracting a life threatening illness during a global pandemic.
This, and how many people who didn't get covid are suffering the same trauma.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 09, 2021, 09:56:26 AM
This, and how many people who didn't get covid are suffering the same trauma.

People who didn't get Covid are seeing an increase in strokes?  ???
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: avromie7 on April 09, 2021, 10:03:54 AM
People who didn't get Covid are seeing an increase in strokes?  ???
"Six months after being diagnosed with Covid-19, 1 in 3 patients also had experienced a psychiatric or neurological illness, mostly mood disorders but also strokes or dementia, a large new study shows."
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 09, 2021, 10:15:43 AM
"Six months after being diagnosed with Covid-19, 1 in 3 patients also had experienced a psychiatric or neurological illness, mostly mood disorders but also strokes or dementia, a large new study shows."

I read it, just wondering why you were ignoring the non-mood issues. And to answer your specific point, the control group also lived in the Covid era, unless they took their control numbers from pre-Covid times (which I don't know).
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: avromie7 on April 09, 2021, 10:38:59 AM
I read it, just wondering why you were ignoring the non-mood issues. And to answer your specific point, the control group also lived in the Covid era, unless they took their control numbers from pre-Covid times (which I don't know).
I'm not saying there are no long term effects, I'm opening up the possibility that a large amount of the increase is not directly caused by covid.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: dasmo801 on April 09, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
I freely admit that I didn't look at one bit of the data and I probably wouldn't know what I was reading if I did, but if you live in a high density frum community the likelihood is that most of your relatives, friends and fellow mispallilim had covid. Even allowing for the typical secrecy associated with mental illness in the frum community, I find it extremely unlikely that 30% of the people around us are suddenly silently suffering from various forms of mental illness and we don't see any hints of it.   
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on April 09, 2021, 11:51:12 AM
I freely admit that I didn't look at one bit of the data and I probably wouldn't know what I was reading if I did, but if you live in a high density frum community the likelihood is that most of your relatives, friends and fellow mispallilim had covid. Even allowing for the typical secrecy associated with mental illness in the frum community, I find it extremely unlikely that 30% of the people around us are suddenly silently suffering from various forms of mental illness and we don't see any hints of it.

First, you have no clue what anyone else happens to be going through. Davening next to someone will tell you how tall he is, the color of his hair, and maybe if he showered that morning. It doesn't tell you a single thing about what's going on inside his head. Second, the study was about diagnoses of neurological or psychiatric disorders, with almost a quarter of a million people studied. The first time I heard of possible neurological issues post-Covid was here, about an otherwise healthy man from Lakewood having a stroke a few months after having had Covid.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: S209 on May 02, 2021, 10:12:58 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/08/world/middleeast/israel-orthodox-virus.html
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on May 02, 2021, 10:18:51 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/08/world/middleeast/israel-orthodox-virus.html

This is gonna need its own thread...
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: yelped on May 02, 2021, 11:38:20 AM
This is gonna need its own thread...
Was posted here a couple of month ago, I believe.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 05, 2021, 02:51:43 AM
A perfectly healthy relative of mine in his mid twenties had Corona twice and some post corona symptoms. Finally got a brain MRI which showed an edema in the mesencephalon, was immediately rushed to the hospital and is being prepped now for a needle biopsy to be potentially done later today.

The cause can be bacteria/viral infection, autoimmune response, or chv worse and the only way to diagnose it is by extracting tissue in a complicated procedure.

Bh top doctors are on the case, but from what I hear this is a somewhat known covid related phenomenon, so if anybody has more info on that angle please let me know.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2021, 07:57:00 AM
A perfectly healthy relative of mine in his mid twenties had Corona twice and some post corona symptoms. Finally got a brain MRI which showed an edema in the mesencephalon, was immediately rushed to the hospital and is being prepped now for a needle biopsy to be potentially done later today.

The cause can be bacteria/viral infection, autoimmune response, or chv worse and the only way to diagnose it is by extracting tissue in a complicated procedure.

Bh top doctors are on the case, but from what I hear this is a somewhat known covid related phenomenon, so if anybody has more info on that angle please let me know.

Oy, Refuah sheleima
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on May 05, 2021, 09:22:25 AM
A perfectly healthy relative of mine in his mid twenties had Corona twice and some post corona symptoms. Finally got a brain MRI which showed an edema in the mesencephalon, was immediately rushed to the hospital and is being prepped now for a needle biopsy to be potentially done later today.

The cause can be bacteria/viral infection, autoimmune response, or chv worse and the only way to diagnose it is by extracting tissue in a complicated procedure.

Bh top doctors are on the case, but from what I hear this is a somewhat known covid related phenomenon, so if anybody has more info on that angle please let me know.
It's known that covid can affect the nervous system, including causing encephalitis.  It looks like they're at the stage of collecting cases to see how frequently the different neurological conditions occur, and figuring out whether the symptoms are due to the virus entering the brain or are caused indirectly by the processes induced by the virus elsewhere in the body.  It could be that when it comes to treatment, though, the involvement of covid is less relevant, and they would just treat it as they would have done if they'd found those symptoms pre-covid.

Here are some reviews in user-friendly and medical literature:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/covid-19-brain-neurological-issues_l_5fd1248ac5b61d81b33b7d78
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19s-effects-on-the-brain-68369

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/223/1/28/5912547?login=true
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nan.12667
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 05, 2021, 09:34:25 AM
It's known that covid can affect the nervous system, including causing encephalitis.  It looks like they're at the stage of collecting cases to see how frequently the different neurological conditions occur, and figuring out whether the symptoms are due to the virus entering the brain or are caused indirectly by the processes induced by the virus elsewhere in the body.  It could be that when it comes to treatment, though, the involvement of covid is less relevant, and they would just treat it as they would have done if they'd found those symptoms pre-covid.

Here are some reviews in user-friendly and medical literature:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/covid-19-brain-neurological-issues_l_5fd1248ac5b61d81b33b7d78
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19s-effects-on-the-brain-68369

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/223/1/28/5912547?login=true
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nan.12667
Many thanks!!!

The main difference in how prevalent this is as a Covid outcome is in deciding whether or not to take a biopsy, since the procedure is kind of brain surgery. If we knew the odds of it being caused by Covid are high, we could possibly hope for that and push off the biopsy intended to diagnose the worse explanations. Alas, the doctors unanimously agreed the biopsy is needed ASAP and we are only waiting for an OR. Hopefully it will end up being in vain.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: Lurker on May 05, 2021, 09:37:13 AM
Hopefully it will end up being in vain.

Amen!!
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2021, 09:37:23 AM
Many thanks!!!

The main difference in how prevalent this is a Covid outcome is in deciding whether or not to take a biopsy, since the procedure is kind of brain surgery. If we knew the odds of it being caused by Covid are high, we could possibly hope for that and push off the biopsy intended to diagnose the worse explanations. Alas, the doctors unanimously agreed the biopsy is needed ASAP and we are only waiting for an OR. Hopefully it will end up being in vain.

Does the fact that its caused by COVID preclude those more serious chv conditions thats that they biopsy for?

Wouldnt that be an unknown, or is it too soon for that type of thing to develop?
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 05, 2021, 09:39:15 AM
Does the fact that its caused by COVID preclude those more serious chv conditions thats that they biopsy for?
I certainly hope so...

Personally, I'm afraid the bigger problem affected his immune system which is how he got Covid twice.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2021, 09:47:22 AM
Personally, I'm afraid the bigger problem affected his immune system which is how he got Covid twice.

That reasoning would favor a biopsy regardless of post-COVIDs potential neurological manifestations
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 05, 2021, 09:52:43 AM
That reasoning would favor a biopsy regardless of post-COVIDs potential neurological manifestations
I haven't seen any reports of Covid causing cancer, so my guess is that would be unlikely enough not to justify the invasive needle biopsy. Anyways the conversation is moot as the doctors are all in one opinion and the procedure is already underway or beginning any minute (was delayed by a helicopter bringing in a trauma patient who took the OR), so we'll be much smarter in a few days.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: AsherO on May 05, 2021, 10:03:11 AM
I haven't seen any reports of Covid causing cancer, so my guess is that would be unlikely enough not to justify the invasive needle biopsy. Anyways the conversation is moot as the doctors are all in one opinion and the procedure is already underway or beginning any minute (was delayed by a helicopter bringing in a trauma patient who took the OR), so we'll be much smarter in a few days.

May you hear only good news Bezh
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on May 05, 2021, 10:41:27 AM
The main difference in how prevalent this is as a Covid outcome is in deciding whether or not to take a biopsy, since the procedure is kind of brain surgery. If we knew the odds of it being caused by Covid are high, we could possibly hope for that and push off the biopsy intended to diagnose the worse explanations.
It's well-known that Covid can cause neurological problems, but that doesn't mean that every neurological problem that develops during Covid-times is necessarily due to Covid.  One would still want to investigate the worse explanations, rather than rely on hope.

I haven't seen any reports of Covid causing cancer, so my guess is that would be unlikely enough not to justify the invasive needle biopsy.
I would guess that they base their decision to biopsy in large part on the expected success of treatment, not just the likelihood that it's Covid-related.  That is, if they think it might be a cancer for which there's a HIGH probability that treatment will be successful if caught early, then they would want to biopsy, even if there's only a LOW probability of it being cancer in the first place.

Let us know what you hear, and may it be good news.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 05, 2021, 06:50:31 PM
It's well-known that Covid can cause neurological problems, but that doesn't mean that every neurological problem that develops during Covid-times is necessarily due to Covid.  One would still want to investigate the worse explanations, rather than rely on hope.
I would guess that they base their decision to biopsy in large part on the expected success of treatment, not just the likelihood that it's Covid-related.  That is, if they think it might be a cancer for which there's a HIGH probability that treatment will be successful if caught early, then they would want to biopsy, even if there's only a LOW probability of it being cancer in the first place.

Let us know what you hear, and may it be good news.

All very true. Unfortunately the reluctance to do the biopsy is exactly because of the reason you mentioned - treatment success rates aren't high. Possibly some experimental program at Duke...

BH biopsy was taken without incident. Hopefully it will continue as smoothly.
Title: Re: Long Term Effects of COVID-19
Post by: biobook on May 05, 2021, 07:17:14 PM
All very true. Unfortunately the reluctance to do the biopsy is exactly because of the reason you mentioned - treatment success rates aren't high. Possibly some experimental program at Duke...

BH biopsy was taken without incident. Hopefully it will continue as smoothly.
Good to hear that the first step went well.