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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 Discussion Board => Topic started by: mgarfin on May 05, 2020, 09:07:03 PM

Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on May 05, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
not necessarily tested positive, but had symptoms.


I been trying to find someone.
If you do know I'm curious what location
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cholent on May 05, 2020, 09:08:58 PM
On chol hamoed, in Lakewood
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on May 05, 2020, 09:10:17 PM
On chol hamoed, in Lakewood

That I too know chol hamoed.
Friend in Staten island
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Davidthebest on May 05, 2020, 09:11:15 PM
Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?

I been trying to find someone.
If you do know I'm curious what location
Me
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yesitsme on May 05, 2020, 09:38:11 PM
Me
are you Hispanic?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Joe4007 on May 06, 2020, 02:12:45 AM
Friend in KJ. Last week.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 06, 2020, 03:02:37 AM
Is that it? I know more people who had ingrown tonsils since pesach....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: nsastamps on May 06, 2020, 03:21:40 AM
Is that it? I know more people who had ingrown tonsils since pesach....
Say what??🤔🙀🙀
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on May 06, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
I know of a 9 year old girl that went to the hospital 3 days ago with Covid-19 symptoms in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: joeberg on May 06, 2020, 09:42:43 AM
Wife got symptoms beginning of last week.  Lasted 3-4 days.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 09:52:36 AM
I know of 4 people who tested positive with symptoms in Lakewood this week and last. Several members on this forum reported having new symptoms late last week. Also, someone mentioned that Hatzalah in BP has seen an uptick in new cases and hospitalizations, I believe as of Thursday. Where do you live?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on May 06, 2020, 10:00:20 AM
I know of 4 people who tested positive with symptoms in Lakewood this week and last. Several members on this forum reported having new symptoms late last week. Also, someone mentioned that Hatzalah in BP has seen an uptick in new cases and hospitalizations, I believe as of Thursday. Where do you live?

Brooklyn

Just asked someone at Hatzalah in BP he said almost no hospitalizations for coved this week
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 06, 2020, 10:04:54 AM
I know of 4 people who tested positive with symptoms in Lakewood this week and last. Several members on this forum reported having new symptoms late last week. Also, someone mentioned that Hatzalah in BP has seen an uptick in new cases and hospitalizations, I believe as of Thursday. Where do you live?
Sister-in-law also tested positive and liquid last week but that was after three weeks of the onset when symptoms were basically resolving.  I think op was asking specifically about new onset illness.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 10:05:50 AM
Brooklyn

Just asked someone at Hatzalah in BP he said almost no hospitalizations for coved this week
What does ďalmost noĒ mean? There were 6,500 calls in less than 2 months, and even if there is a trickle that means there are still new cases going on. Someone here reported there was an uptick. What is this weekís numbers compared to, say, 2 weeks agoís?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 10:07:10 AM
Sister-in-law also tested positive and liquid last week but that was after three weeks of the onset when symptoms were basically resolving.  I think op was asking specifically about new onset illness.
OP- Is this the question, entirely new cases? Or you mean also people who have previously had it flaring up again
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on May 06, 2020, 10:11:11 AM
What does ďalmost noĒ mean? There were 6,500 calls in less than 2 months, and even if there is a trickle that means there are still new cases going on. Someone here reported there was an uptick. What is this weekís numbers compared to, say, 2 weeks agoís?

ďalmost noĒ means they took a few ppl to hospital unsure of diagnoses
Definitely nowhere close to numbers last month
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on May 06, 2020, 10:12:26 AM
OP- Is this the question, entirely new cases? Or you mean also people who have previously had it flaring up again

NEW

"flaring up again" is something not clear cut if it from old germs or maybe new germs helped
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 10:15:44 AM
ďalmost noĒ means they took a few ppl to hospital unsure of diagnoses
Definitely nowhere close to numbers last month
Agreed the numbers are clearly way way down. But someone mentioned it had gone down to 0 and then started trending up again, which you seem to have confirmed. Still
NEW

"flaring up again" is something not clear cut if it from old germs or maybe new germs helped

I donít know whether these are new or old cases. Even if they hadnít previously been tested, they may have previously had it mild or asymptomatically, so thereís no real way to know.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 06, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
Is that it? I know more people who had ingrown tonsils since pesach....
Good thing that isnít life threatening.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on May 06, 2020, 10:47:53 AM
Good thing that isnít life threatening.

Lies! I do not know of a single person who has survived ingrown tonsils. It has a 0% survival rate.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on May 06, 2020, 01:00:14 PM
I know of a 9 year old girl that went to the hospital 3 days ago with Covid-19 symptoms in Lakewood.
They were hospitalized due to Kawasaki; and I have now heard of a second child hospitalized with Kawasaki (and tested positive for Covid-19) as well. Both direct second hand reports; both in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 01:03:23 PM
NEW

"flaring up again" is something not clear cut if it from old germs or maybe new germs helped
OK, just found about a new case. A relatively elderly person who exhibited symptoms for the first time last week, has now been hospitalized. The grandmother of an acquaintance of mine.

Again, she may have had it earlier, we really donít know anything about this stuff, but she was not symptomatic or tested until last week.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 06, 2020, 03:17:19 PM
Good thing that isnít life threatening.
This is completely untrue and is reckless disregard for the life threatening danger ingrown toenail (onychocryptosis) presents to other Jews. At this point it may pose an acceptable risk to young healthy individuals like you but do you know that there are severe diabetics in the population? In these individuals ingrown toenail often leads to diabetic foot ulcers, which have a 25% mortality rate. I had a relative die of ingrown toenail.

A life is worth any cost. How can we venture outside our homes when this will cause thousands of diabetics each year to step on foreign objects or put undue pressure on their toes and go on to develop ingrown tonsils and foot ulcers and die. While we are standing for hours in shul on Yom Kippur the elderly gentleman standing next to us may be exerting dangerous pressure on his foot all because of our drawn out tefilla  betzibur. Itís mamish a mitzvah habaah biaveirah. We should calmly stay in our homes until they develop a cure for diabetics. There are several hopeful treatments in the pipeline. Until then itís just too dangerous for our most vulnerable population.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 06, 2020, 03:18:01 PM
Lies! I do not know of a single person who has survived ingrown tonsils. It has a 0% survival rate.
Auto correct is dangerous:)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 03:42:03 PM
This is completely untrue and is reckless disregard for the life threatening danger ingrown toenail (onychocryptosis) presents to other Jews. At this point it may pose an acceptable risk to young healthy individuals like you but do you know that there are severe diabetics in the population? In these individuals ingrown toenail often leads to diabetic foot ulcers, which have a 25% mortality rate. I had a relative die of ingrown toenail.

A life is worth any cost. How can we venture outside our homes when this will cause thousands of diabetics each year to step on foreign objects or put undue pressure on their toes and go on to develop ingrown tonsils and foot ulcers and die. While we are standing for hours in shul on Yom Kippur the elderly gentleman standing next to us may be exerting dangerous pressure on his foot all because of our drawn out tefilla  betzibur. Itís mamish a mitzvah habaah biaveirah. We should calmly stay in our homes until they develop a cure for diabetics. There are several hopeful treatments in the pipeline. Until then itís just too dangerous for our most vulnerable population.
Ah, I get it. Youíre mocking safety measures while admitting they would save lives because they sound unappealing?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 06, 2020, 03:53:19 PM
Ah, I get it. Youíre mocking safety measures while admitting they would save lives because they sound unappealing?

No, Iím mocking the CURRENT safety measures given the data. That is very different.I was a strong advocate of the initial safety measures long before others were on board, and personally started davening at home and staying away from in person chavrusas over a week earlier than almost any others.I am currently advising an immunocompromised relative not to venture out of the house yet and am still taking care of their shopping with precautions.

Back then it was based on the alarming data that others were slow in accepting. Now I am advocating the opposite based on compelling data that is not being incorporated into guidelines on the ground for multiple reasons, in some cases political considerations.

Just to give a small example, do you honestly believe that if the unionized teachers and state government workers across the state were laid off and not receiving a paycheck, just like many of us private business owners and workers are, that Murphy would be doing the exact same thing he is doing now? I think not.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yelped on May 06, 2020, 05:29:28 PM
Way too many likes for something claiming to be based on current "data", when the numbers are still way too high. You're relying on anecdotes and assumptions for the Jewish communities in making life threatening decisions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 06, 2020, 05:35:11 PM
No, Iím mocking the CURRENT safety measures given the data. That is very different.I was a strong advocate of the initial safety measures long before others were on board, and personally started davening at home and staying away from in person chavrusas over a week earlier than almost any others.I am currently advising an immunocompromised relative not to venture out of the house yet and am still taking care of their shopping with precautions.

Back then it was based on the alarming data that others were slow in accepting. Now I am advocating the opposite based on compelling data that is not being incorporated into guidelines on the ground for multiple reasons, in some cases political considerations.

Just to give a small example, do you honestly believe that if the unionized teachers and state government workers across the state were laid off and not receiving a paycheck, just like many of us private business owners and workers are, that Murphy would be doing the exact same thing he is doing now? I think not.
You seemed to be mocking safety measures by Frum communities, which I hope are not being adopted for political considerations. What measures do you think are appropriate based on the data you have seen? You have seen compelling evidence of the lack of permanent damage to infected patients? Or perhaps evidence of 90% of Lakewood infected, recovered, and clear immunity?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on May 07, 2020, 08:41:32 AM
Hearing 12 positive tests total  in Lakewood the last couple days but they came from tests from those who passed away up to a month ago by doctor Lebowitzs floor. Can anyone confirm?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on May 07, 2020, 09:01:58 AM
Just to give a small example, do you honestly believe that if the unionized teachers and state government workers across the state were laid off and not receiving a paycheck, just like many of us private business owners and workers are, that Murphy would be doing the exact same thing he is doing now? I think not.
Using your logic then why is LAS shutdown?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 07, 2020, 10:21:47 AM
Using your logic then why is LAS shutdown?
LAS is public unions?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 07, 2020, 02:13:06 PM
Hearing 12 positive tests total  in Lakewood the last couple days but they came from tests from those who passed away up to a month ago by doctor Lebowitzs floor. Can anyone confirm?
Where did you hear this from? That would be amazing news.

Itís unfortunately likely wrong, as I know people who tested positive this week. Itís possible they were tested in Long Branch or other locations but they live in Lakewood so the data should reflect that. Please post a source if possible, and I hope people can confirm!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on May 07, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Where did you hear this from? That would be amazing news.

Itís unfortunately likely wrong, as I know people who tested positive this week. Itís possible they were tested in Long Branch or other locations but they live in Lakewood so the data should reflect that. Please post a source if possible, and I hope people can confirm!

Reported by the blogs as well. There were 100 recent positives total in Monmouth county and 77 in the entire Ocean County so that certainly adds up especially considering that Lakewood was first to be impacted.

https://www.app.com/story/news/health/2020/05/07/coronavirus-nj-ocean-county-death-toll-hits-500-state-hits-milestone-hospitalizations/3088851001/
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 07, 2020, 04:02:37 PM
Reported by the blogs as well. There were 100 recent positives total in Monmouth county and 77 in the entire Ocean County so that certainly adds up especially considering that Lakewood was first to be impacted.

https://www.app.com/story/news/health/2020/05/07/coronavirus-nj-ocean-county-death-toll-hits-500-state-hits-milestone-hospitalizations/3088851001/

Were they from "other communities?"
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on May 07, 2020, 04:03:55 PM
Were they from "other communities?"
Almost a certainty. Some are people like my SIL in Lakewood who incidentally tested positive recently after 3.5 weeks onset.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 07, 2020, 08:14:25 PM
Almost a certainty. Some are people like my SIL in Lakewood who incidentally tested positive recently after 3.5 weeks onset.
She was tested upon entrance to a hospital for a birth? Thatís where most of the positives I know of come from
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 07, 2020, 08:15:53 PM
Reported by the blogs as well. There were 100 recent positives total in Monmouth county and 77 in the entire Ocean County so that certainly adds up especially considering that Lakewood was first to be impacted.

https://www.app.com/story/news/health/2020/05/07/coronavirus-nj-ocean-county-death-toll-hits-500-state-hits-milestone-hospitalizations/3088851001/
That article says there were over 100 deaths in Lakewood, I thought it was less than 80.. Hashem Yerachem
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on May 07, 2020, 08:53:38 PM
She was tested upon entrance to a hospital for a birth? Thatís where most of the positives I know of come from

No, at Chemed on a whim when she went for a strep culture for her son.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 07, 2020, 08:57:22 PM
That article says there were over 100 deaths in Lakewood, I thought it was less than 80.. Hashem Yerachem
Not everyone who lives in Lakewood is from our community.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 07, 2020, 09:00:52 PM
Ah, I get it. Youíre mocking safety measures while admitting they would save lives because they sound unappealing?
They're impossible in a real life setting.
(But is rant should have ended in a  " /sarcastic font")
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on May 07, 2020, 09:23:34 PM
They're impossible in a real life setting.
(But is rant should have ended in a  " /sarcastic font")
Do you put on your turning signal in a turning only lane?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 07, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
Not everyone who lives in Lakewood is from our community.
True
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on May 07, 2020, 09:39:21 PM
LAS is public unions?
Try answering a question for once.  ::)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 07, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
Try answering a question for once.  ::)
Why?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 11, 2020, 01:09:45 AM
Hearing 12 positive tests total  in Lakewood the last couple days but they came from tests from those who passed away up to a month ago by doctor Lebowitzs floor. Can anyone confirm?

Looking at the app.com town by town numbers Lakewood had 1990 positives May 9th and 2006 on May 10th so 16 new positives. Around 100 cases total for Ocean County. They are starting to wind down testing availability in Ocean County due to lack of demand so all in all consistently low numbers for a while now.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 11, 2020, 02:22:45 PM
Looking at the app.com town by town numbers Lakewood had 1990 positives May 9th and 2006 on May 10th so 16 new positives. Around 100 cases total for Ocean County. They are starting to wind down testing availability in Ocean County due to lack of demand so all in all consistently low numbers for a while now.
BH!!!! Letís keep it that way.

When are we going to see data on antibody tests?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Iz on May 11, 2020, 03:07:47 PM
When are we going to see data on antibody tests?
When you dig it up.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on May 11, 2020, 10:53:31 PM
They are starting to wind down testing availability in Ocean County due to lack of demand so all in all consistently low numbers for a while now.

Saw this...does this means sports leagues can start testing players without getting blamed for taking up testing slots?
Still have time for the Stanley cup playoffs.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on May 11, 2020, 11:06:33 PM
Saw this...does this means sports leagues can start testing players without getting blamed for taking up testing slots?
Still have time for the Stanley cup playoffs.
I donít think testing is the real obstacle with the sports leagues restarting.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 11, 2020, 11:41:46 PM
Looking at the app.com town by town numbers Lakewood had 1990 positives May 9th and 2006 on May 10th so 16 new positives. Around 100 cases total for Ocean County. They are starting to wind down testing availability in Ocean County due to lack of demand so all in all consistently low numbers for a while now.

2025 total today. Additional 19 positives.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 12, 2020, 05:32:47 PM
Looking at the app.com town by town numbers Lakewood had 1990 positives May 9th and 2006 on May 10th so 16 new positives. Around 100 cases total for Ocean County. They are starting to wind down testing availability in Ocean County due to lack of demand so all in all consistently low numbers for a while now.

2025 yesterday 2032 positives today. Total of 7 additional positives for today in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 13, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
2025 yesterday 2032 positives today. Total of 7 additional positives for today in Lakewood.
2050. 18 daily positives.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 13, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
2050. 18 daily positives.
Thanks again for keeping this updated, are these new positives? How long is the lag between testing and reporting?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 13, 2020, 02:34:35 PM
Thanks again for keeping this updated, are these new positives? How long is the lag between testing and reporting?
Itís a daily running total of positives as they come in. Subtracting yesterdayís total count yields total positives for today.I imagine it varies by lab.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 14, 2020, 05:35:52 PM
2050. 18 daily positives.
Lakewood up to 2076. Additional 26 positives since yesterday.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 14, 2020, 05:55:15 PM
Lakewood up to 2076. Additional 26 positives since yesterday.
Moving up. Not good.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Moving up. Not good.
Are these symptomatic?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 14, 2020, 06:02:41 PM
Are these symptomatic?
Positive results. They donít break it down.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 06:04:22 PM
So these could be people with antibodies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 14, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
So these could be people with antibodies.
Why would you say that? That would be terrible, but why should we assume that?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 06:38:12 PM
Why would you say that? That would be terrible, but why should we assume that?
Meaning that (some of) these new positives could be the ones that are picking up dead viral matter as opposed to new people actually getting sick.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 14, 2020, 06:41:25 PM
Meaning that (some of) these new positives could be the ones that are picking up dead viral matter as opposed to new people actually getting sick.
People testing positive now are still being told to quarantine for 2 weeks and assume theyíre infectious, even if theyíve been positive for weeks. Thereís no proof that itís dead, though itís hoped and assumed.

Why are they getting tested again?  That wouldnít explain why numbers are going up.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 06:43:30 PM
People testing positive now are still being told to quarantine for 2 weeks and assume theyíre infectious, even if theyíve been positive for weeks. Thereís no proof that itís dead, though itís hoped and assumed.

Why are they getting tested again?  That wouldnít explain why numbers are going up.
People who are going for antibody testing and have been symptom free for weeks have been receiving positives. They were never tested originally, so they add to the tally. Didn't Mt. Sinai tell people they were not contagious?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 14, 2020, 06:46:34 PM
Still the overall trend is worth keeping an eye on. I would expect some increasing numbers as at least a small number of people who were never exposed test positive along with the fact that testing is now widely available and incentivized. OHI and CHEMED very recently got around 1.5 million in funding specifically to do testing. Theyíve got to do the testing to use the funds. Iím sure anyone coming in with nonspecific symptoms is not being tested. Still if the number spikes sharply that would be telling. I am certainly not anticipating that.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 06:47:56 PM
Still the overall trend is worth keeping an eye on. I would expect some increasing numbers as at least a small number of people who were never exposed test positive along with the fact that testing is now widely available and incentivized. OHI and CHEMED very recently got around 1.5 million in funding specifically to do testing. Theyíve got to do the testing to use the funds. Iím sure anyone coming in with nonspecific symptoms is not being tested. Still if the number spikes sharply that would be telling. I am certainly not anticipating that.
AFAIK anyone can get tested for Covid-19 and antibody testing with no symptoms.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on May 14, 2020, 06:49:13 PM
Still the overall trend is worth keeping an eye on. I would expect some increasing numbers as at least a small number of people who were never exposed test positive along with the fact that testing is now widely available and incentivized. OHI and CHEMED very recently got around 1.5 million in funding specifically to do testing. Theyíve got to do the testing to use the funds. Iím sure anyone coming in with nonspecific symptoms is not being tested. Still if the number spikes sharply that would be telling. I am certainly not anticipating that.

How much does each test cost them? $1.5mm sounds like a lot, even at $100/test thatís 15,000 tests.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 14, 2020, 07:04:34 PM
AFAIK anyone can get tested for Covid-19 and antibody testing with no symptoms.

Yes but now if a patient comes in with muscle aches or a low fever thereís an incentive for a doctor to order a covid test for the patient. Nothing wrong with that. Just something to factor in to the numbers.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 07:09:03 PM
Yes but now if a patient comes in with muscle aches or a low fever thereís an incentive for a doctor to order a covid test for the patient. Nothing wrong with that. Just something to factor in to the numbers.
And factor in that people who aren't sick at all are looking for info regarding their status. I'm planning to test everyone in my family.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 14, 2020, 07:42:18 PM
And factor in that people who aren't sick at all are looking for info regarding their status. I'm planning to test everyone in my family.
Yes but now if a patient comes in with muscle aches or a low fever thereís an incentive for a doctor to order a covid test for the patient. Nothing wrong with that. Just something to factor in to the numbers.
Iíd love an accurate test for all in my family. I have yet to hear of a place in Lakewood performing tests without picking your brain and I really donít want to do that. When will they make saliva tests and front of-the nose tests mainstream in Lakewood?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 14, 2020, 08:43:27 PM
Meaning that (some of) these new positives could be the ones that are picking up dead viral matter as opposed to new people actually getting sick.
This. My neighbor (in lakewood) who never had symptoms and never got tested just tested positive for COVID as well as antibodies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: joeberg on May 14, 2020, 09:03:33 PM
Still the overall trend is worth keeping an eye on. I would expect some increasing numbers as at least a small number of people who were never exposed test positive along with the fact that testing is now widely available and incentivized. OHI and CHEMED very recently got around 1.5 million in funding specifically to do testing. Theyíve got to do the testing to use the funds. Iím sure anyone coming in with nonspecific symptoms is not being tested. Still if the number spikes sharply that would be telling. I am certainly not anticipating that.
Chemed is giving everyone both tests by default, Carona and antibodies. I just got my whole family tested, 6 yr old and up. They didn't give an option of doing only one of the tests.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 14, 2020, 09:27:03 PM
Chemed is giving everyone both tests by default, Carona and antibodies. I just got my whole family tested, 6 yr old and up. They didn't give an option of doing only one of the tests.
How bad were the tests, way back of your nose? Also, was the antibody test a blood test or finger prick?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: joeberg on May 14, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
I think I spotted some brain matter on the swab. Joking aside wasn't terrible, just a moment of extreme discomfort. They didn't linger to long in my brain. My 6 yr old was holding her nose but they didn't let her skip it, instead they just shoved it up quickly and only did one nostril. Needed to bill for it.
Antibodies, was a blood draw. 2 vials they do the IGM, which is the immediate immune reaction and IGG which is the longer term antibodies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 14, 2020, 10:05:24 PM
Chemed is giving everyone both tests by default, Carona and antibodies. I just got my whole family tested, 6 yr old and up. They didn't give an option of doing only one of the tests.

Here is where the daily number of tests and percent positive are so much more important to spot any trends than the raw number. Unfortunately that information is not being provided.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 14, 2020, 10:45:42 PM
How bad were the tests, way back of your nose? Also, was the antibody test a blood test or finger prick?
Who is doing a finger pick and is it reliable?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on May 14, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Who is doing a finger pick and is it reliable?
It's less reliable.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on May 14, 2020, 11:59:02 PM
Thanks. Don't think I'll be able to convince some of them to do a blood draw.
FWIW my kids get a lot more hysterical from a finger prick than a blood draw. I guess it depends how much blood they need from the finger...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 15, 2020, 12:00:53 AM
It's less reliable.
Thanks. Don't think I'll be able to convince some of them to do a draw.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 15, 2020, 07:39:55 PM
Lakewood up to 2076. Additional 26 positives since yesterday.
2094
Additional 18 today.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 16, 2020, 09:38:30 PM
2094
Additional 18 today.
2099. 5 new positives reported since Friday
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 16, 2020, 09:42:10 PM
2099. 5 new positives reported since Friday
And anecdotally, more people are out and about for the last couple of weeks so thatís an encouraging sign
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: sams on May 16, 2020, 09:43:03 PM
Are there a lot of new hospitalizations ?
The ďnewĒ cases can be ppl still testing positive after a few months
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 16, 2020, 09:46:34 PM
Are there a lot of new hospitalizations ?
The ďnewĒ cases can be ppl still testing positive after a few months
Which is good because thereís no uptick in cases, but concerning because they may still be infectious
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 16, 2020, 09:51:37 PM
Which is good because thereís no uptick in cases, but concerning because they may still be infectious
If most people who had it months ago were really still infectious I don't think we'd be seeing little to no real new cases.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: sams on May 16, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
If most people who had it months ago were really still infectious I don't think we'd be seeing little to no real new cases.
Good point even though we all know ppl who tested positive months later
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 16, 2020, 09:56:08 PM
If most people who had it months ago were really still infectious I don't think we'd be seeing little to no real new cases.
Good point
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: 4yourinfo on May 17, 2020, 12:22:52 PM
Just tested positive for virus and Antibodies😨 had mild symptoms a week after Purim... Still have a burning sensation in the throat and nose - don't know if it's allergies or something else...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 17, 2020, 12:27:38 PM
Just tested positive for virus and Antibodies😨 had mild symptoms a week after Purim... Still have a burning sensation in the throat and nose - don't know if it's allergies or something else...
Is it consistent with your normal seasonal allregies?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: 4yourinfo on May 17, 2020, 12:30:56 PM
Is it consistent with your normal seasonal allregies?
No - it could be stressed related - as soon as I found out positive seemed to get worse...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 17, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
2099. 5 new positives reported since Friday
2138. 39 additional. Maybe uneven reporting? Yesterday and today average out to 22 daily....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 17, 2020, 01:43:33 PM
2138. 39 additional. Maybe uneven reporting? Yesterday and today average out to 22 daily....
Iíve heard that weekend reporting dips then rises for lack of staff, but this seems to be the inverse. Iím not going to voice the other obvious tzad.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 17, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Iíve heard that weekend reporting dips then rises for lack of staff, but this seems to be the inverse. Iím not going to voice the other obvious tzad.
You're not taking the delay between testing and reporting in to account. My parents got tested last week and were told it takes 4-5 business days for results.
The only number that should matter when it comes to testing is the positive rate.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 18, 2020, 05:30:57 PM
2138. 39 additional. Maybe uneven reporting? Yesterday and today average out to 22 daily....

2151 positives in Lakewood. 13 additional positives since yesterday.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 19, 2020, 02:05:27 PM
2151 positives in Lakewood. 13 additional positives since yesterday.
2164. Steady as she goes with 13 cases since yesterday.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 20, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
2164. Steady as she goes with 13 cases since yesterday.
2194. Additional 30 cases since yesterday
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Jellybelly on May 20, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
2194. Additional 30 cases since yesterday
But I heard lkwd hatzalah hasnít had any calls this week. Does that mean theyíre not serious cases? Or people are just testing positive now but had it weeks ago
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 20, 2020, 06:40:34 PM
But I heard lkwd hatzalah hasnít had any calls this week. Does that mean theyíre not serious cases? Or people are just testing positive now but had it weeks ago
It can mean many things. There are non Jews in Lakewood too, these can be people still testing positive from weeks ago, or these can be tests that are coming back from earlier, to name a few.

The worst case would be if there are people testing positive but hospitalizations havenít started yet (that indicator lags behind positive testing when testing is freely available). Please donít attack me for voicing that possibility. If it wasnít a possibility we wouldnít have any restrictions in place anymore.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Jellybelly on May 20, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
It can mean many things. There are non Jews in Lakewood too, these can be people still testing positive from weeks ago, or these can be tests that are coming back from earlier, to name a few.

The worst case would be if there are people testing positive but hospitalizations havenít started yet (that indicator lags behind positive testing when testing is freely available). Please donít attack me for voicing that possibility. If it wasnít a possibility we wouldnít have any restrictions in place anymore.
Iím not so confident that that last line Is true unfortunately
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 20, 2020, 07:03:52 PM
It can mean many things. There are non Jews in Lakewood too, these can be people still testing positive from weeks ago, or these can be tests that are coming back from earlier, to name a few.

The worst case would be if there are people testing positive but hospitalizations havenít started yet (that indicator lags behind positive testing when testing is freely available). Please donít attack me for voicing that possibility. If it wasnít a possibility we wouldnít have any restrictions in place anymore.

If we had reliable data showing an increase relative to testing (percent positive) that would be something to look for. As of now itís reasonable to assume that the numbers are simply related to availability/ incentivization of tests, and are actually holding steadily low on a rolling average basis,  but as always keep an eye on the trends and look out for anomalies or even anecdotal indicators which can often be leading indicators long before it shows up in the data. Nothing would indicate such right now.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on May 20, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
It's also possible that people are getting tested at the onset of symptoms instead of waiting until they need to call Hatzalah.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 20, 2020, 07:23:16 PM
It's also possible that people are getting tested at the onset of symptoms instead of waiting until they need to call Hatzalah.
We still have the OP question, I haven't heard of anyone having symptoms recently. While what I hear is only anecdotal, the fact that no one on DDF and no one I spoke to heard of anyone either is very telling.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yelped on May 20, 2020, 08:30:46 PM
We still have the OP question, I haven't heard of anyone having symptoms recently. While what I hear is only anecdotal, the fact that no one on DDF and no one I spoke to heard of anyone either is very telling.
My neighbor said he knows of 16 people who tested positive after Pesach. I don't know any more details. Just putting it out there.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 20, 2020, 08:36:03 PM
Hatzolo has had new covid calls recently.  I don't know when these people were infected, but there's a small second wave.  Most likely from the vulnerable getting tired of quarantine and 'jealous' of everyone who's stopped self-quarantining.
We have to sympathize with, help out, and encourage those who still need to stay quarantined. (But the rest of us don't need to stay quarantined in solidarity.)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 20, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
My neighbor said he knows of 16 people who tested positive after Pesach. I don't know any more details. Just putting it out there.
I know plenty of people who tested positive after pesach, but all of them had symptoms earlier and/or have antibodies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Shmobaum on May 20, 2020, 09:23:43 PM
Hatzolo has had new covid calls recently.  I don't know when these people were infected, but there's a small second wave.  Most likely from the vulnerable getting tired of quarantine and 'jealous' of everyone who's stopped self-quarantining.
We have to sympathize with, help out, and encourage those who still need to stay quarantined. (But the rest of us don't need to stay quarantined in solidarity.)
Which city?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on May 20, 2020, 10:48:25 PM
Hatzolo has had new covid calls recently.  I don't know when these people were infected, but there's a small second wave.  Most likely from the vulnerable getting tired of quarantine and 'jealous' of everyone who's stopped self-quarantining.
We have to sympathize with, help out, and encourage those who still need to stay quarantined. (But the rest of us don't need to stay quarantined in solidarity.)

Unless you know for a fact these people are from the vulnerable population then you canít say that. Many people <65 have been really ill or RĒL worse... including many in their 30s-50s who were otherwise generally healthy.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 20, 2020, 10:59:27 PM
Hatzolo has had new covid calls recently.  I don't know when these people were infected, but there's a small second wave.  Most likely from the vulnerable getting tired of quarantine and 'jealous' of everyone who's stopped self-quarantining.
We have to sympathize with, help out, and encourage those who still need to stay quarantined. (But the rest of us don't need to stay quarantined in solidarity.)
Where is this? BP?

There is truth to what youíre saying about the people who need to be the most careful being jealous of others.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 20, 2020, 11:22:58 PM
BP
I have no specific knowledge, but I got the impression it was the typically hard hit covid patient.  Older, heavier, other medical problems.

Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Barryg on May 21, 2020, 12:35:30 AM
I voted yes to the poll (in US outside tristate). However, it's an unfair poll to begin with since I know many many who have had it before Pesach and literally one who has had a mild case after Pesach.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 21, 2020, 05:22:23 PM
2194. Additional 30 cases since yesterday
2205. Additional 11 cases. Consistently low rolling average.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 22, 2020, 01:13:34 PM
2205. Additional 11 cases. Consistently low rolling average.
Possibly due to lower testing being done now.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 22, 2020, 01:52:06 PM
Possibly due to lower testing being done now.
Is there less testing being done?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 22, 2020, 02:15:02 PM
Is there less testing being done?
No. Not enough to account for the numbers.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 22, 2020, 02:23:37 PM
Is there less testing being done?
Went today to get everyone tested and was given a hard time. Urgent care said as of two days ago they are only doing antibody testing so as to minimize the positives. If you have a valid reason they will test but are discouraging it very strongly.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 22, 2020, 02:50:43 PM
Was told today that as of two dWent today to get everyone tested and was given a hard time. Urgent care said as of two days ago they are only doing antibody testing so as to minimize the positives. If you have a valid reason they will test but are discouraging it very strongly.
I know 2 people who were told the same this week, they used to test for both at the same time but now they donít
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on May 22, 2020, 03:09:28 PM
Went today to get everyone tested and was given a hard time. Urgent care said as of two days ago they are only doing antibody testing so as to minimize the positives. If you have a valid reason they will test but are discouraging it very strongly.
I know 2 people who were told the same this week, they used to test for both at the same time but now they donít

So in other words, we should expect NJ's numbers to start dropping next week and we shouldn't read too much into it?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ari3 on May 22, 2020, 03:14:49 PM
So in other words, we should expect NJ's numbers to start dropping next week and we shouldn't read too much into it?
They have been dropping sharply for a few weeks already
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 22, 2020, 03:15:43 PM
So in other words, we should expect NJ's numbers to start dropping next week and we shouldn't read too much into it?
No, the chart posted above by @Yard sale show the numbers were already falling as testing was increasing, and even as theyíre slowing testing the positives are clearly falling at a greater pace. Itís interesting because itís clear that continuous mass testing is needed to keep the numbers down, so why is testing declining so much?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 22, 2020, 03:23:40 PM
No, the chart posted above by @Yard sale show the numbers were already falling as testing was increasing, and even as theyíre slowing testing the positives are clearly falling at a greater pace. Itís interesting because itís clear that continuous mass testing is needed to keep the numbers down, so why is testing declining so much?
Not enough people to test?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 22, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
Not enough people to test?
No. I went with five people and they didn't want to test us.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 22, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
Not enough people to test?
As noted above, they are actively discouraging testing when mere days before some places were making testing mandatory with antibody testing
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 22, 2020, 03:35:22 PM
As noted above, they are actively discouraging testing when mere days before some places were making testing mandatory with antibody testing
Maybe it's to weed out all the "new cases" that really are old cases only getting tested now.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 22, 2020, 03:36:43 PM
Maybe it's to weed out all the "new cases" that really are old cases only getting tested now.
That's what I think.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 22, 2020, 03:39:55 PM
2205. Additional 11 cases. Consistently low rolling average.

2237. Additional 32 positives since yesterday.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 22, 2020, 03:57:02 PM
Maybe it's to weed out all the "new cases" that really are old cases only getting tested now.
How is it doing that
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yelped on May 22, 2020, 04:12:50 PM
Are we going to have to delve into conspiracy theories now to explain the discouragement of testing?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 22, 2020, 04:13:19 PM
How is it doing that
Less testing =less positives?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 22, 2020, 04:14:49 PM
How is it doing that
By not testing people who believe they had it months ago, instead only testing them for antibodies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yesitsme on May 22, 2020, 05:44:21 PM
Chai care doesn't have a monopoly here you can go to others, there are so many urgent cares around that would be more then happy to poke you and your kids, just make sure they use FDA approved tests
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 22, 2020, 05:45:54 PM
Is it only chai care discouraging it?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 23, 2020, 10:01:03 PM
2237. Additional 32 positives since yesterday.
2239. Only 2 positives. Seems to dip on the weekends. Rolling average is the way to go.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Crazy tools on May 23, 2020, 11:07:33 PM
Is it only chai care discouraging it?
I was discouraged at friendly urgent care in Lakewood.
Antibody came back negative
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 23, 2020, 11:18:15 PM
I get why they don't want unnecessary positives, but it isn't testing the only way to really get a handle on this?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 23, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
I get why they don't want unnecessary positives, but it isn't testing the only way to really get a handle on this?
Unnecesaary positives will only make it harder to discern a rise in new cases. At this point if they limit tests to people who actively have symptoms or have been exposed to people with symptoms we'll find the new cases. Because we have the capacity, we can immediately increase testing as soon as there is reason to.

Disclaimer: This is my own theory, feel free to disagree.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on May 23, 2020, 11:55:26 PM
Unnecesaary positives will only make it harder to discern a rise in new cases. At this point if they limit tests to people who actively have symptoms or have been exposed to people with symptoms we'll find the new cases. Because we have the capacity, we can immediately increase testing as soon as there is reason to.

Disclaimer: This is my own theory, feel free to disagree.
Isn't the whole point to catch asymptomatic cases before they start spreading it, since the most infectious time is prior to onset of symptoms?



Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: flyingace on May 23, 2020, 11:56:27 PM
Unnecesaary positives will only make it harder to discern a rise in new cases. At this point if they limit tests to people who actively have symptoms or have been exposed to people with symptoms we'll find the new cases. Because we have the capacity, we can immediately increase testing as soon as there is reason to.

Disclaimer: This is my own theory, feel free to disagree.
Ok. I get that. However my doctor will only allow us to start interacting with married kids, etc if everyone tests negative.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 24, 2020, 12:12:36 AM
Unnecesaary positives will only make it harder to discern a rise in new cases. At this point if they limit tests to people who actively have symptoms or have been exposed to people with symptoms we'll find the new cases. Because we have the capacity, we can immediately increase testing as soon as there is reason to.

Disclaimer: This is my own theory, feel free to disagree.
Mass randomized testing is the only way to catch it before there is some serious spread, as you will need to wait for the test of a symptomatic patient showing up positive before we catch it, while there could have been an week or two after incubation plus asymptomatic people spreading it around. Especially without adequate contact tracing, as is the case for most of the US.

An easy place to start mass testing would be anybody showing up to check for antibodies. Mandate a COVID swab test as well and youíll have people constantly being checked for COVID. Bonus- itíll only be people who havenít been proven to have antibodies yet! For example, this guy should have tested
I was discouraged at friendly urgent care in Lakewood.
Antibody came back negative
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 24, 2020, 03:50:15 AM
Mass randomized testing is the only way to catch it before there is some serious spread, as you will need to wait for the test of a symptomatic patient showing up positive before we catch it, while there could have been an week or two after incubation plus asymptomatic people spreading it around. Especially without adequate contact tracing, as is the case for most of the US.

An easy place to start mass testing would be anybody showing up to check for antibodies. Mandate a COVID swab test as well and youíll have people constantly being checked for COVID. Bonus- itíll only be people who havenít been proven to have antibodies yet! For example, this guy should have tested
Sewage sampling accomplishes this perfectly.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on May 24, 2020, 04:55:03 AM
Unnecesaary positives will only make it harder to discern a rise in new cases. At this point if they limit tests to people who actively have symptoms or have been exposed to people with symptoms we'll find the new cases. Because we have the capacity, we can immediately increase testing as soon as there is reason to.

Disclaimer: This is my own theory, feel free to disagree.

Just test everyone who asks. If COVID is really declining to nothing in Lakewood then there wonít be that many older cases asking to get tested, that will be testing positive. And whoever does ask, will get tested now and be done with for good. And we wonít risk a 2nd wave just to keep the numbers down.

Donít test donít tell brought on the first wave, and will be the cause of a potential 2nd wave. 
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 24, 2020, 06:08:14 PM
2239. Only 2 positives. Seems to dip on the weekends. Rolling average is the way to go.
2256. Another 17 positives since yesterday. Consistent rolling average of new daily #ís in the teens for around 2 weeks now in Lakewood .
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 25, 2020, 04:31:33 PM
2256. Another 17 positives since yesterday. Consistent rolling average of new daily #ís in the teens for around 2 weeks now in Lakewood .
2263. 7 additional positives.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 26, 2020, 06:15:36 PM
2263. 7 additional positives.
2276. 13 positives in Lakewood since yesterday.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on May 27, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
https://vimeo.com/422222423

At 2:34:28 Rabbi Rotberg says he knows 2 families that are sick with covid for the first time
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: shulemw on May 27, 2020, 11:39:43 PM
Sick or tested positive?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 27, 2020, 11:44:35 PM
Sick or tested positive?
Watch. He says both families have just tested positive for the first time and their whole families are sick.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: junion on May 27, 2020, 11:46:08 PM
Sick or tested positive?
He doesnt say where, though
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 27, 2020, 11:48:28 PM
He doesnt say where, though
True, I noticed that. He is a Rav in Toms River but the families could be in LA or Detroit honestly. Would be a bit disingenuous if theyíre not in his neighborhood though because he was addressing his Shul.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 27, 2020, 11:50:19 PM
True, I noticed that. He is a Rav in Toms River but the families could be in LA or Detroit honestly. Would be a bit disingenuous if theyíre not in his neighborhood though because he was addressing his Shul.
He is a Rov for Lakewood Hatzolah as well. So i would presume it is Lakewood area but may not be his shul.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 27, 2020, 11:52:21 PM
He is a Rov for Lakewood Hatzolah as well. So i would presume it is Lakewood area but may not be his shul.
That broadens the horizons on how he may know of these people (maybe through Hatzalah calls) although he calls them friends.
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on May 28, 2020, 12:12:14 AM
Dr. Lempel (Lakewood) said on Monday that he's still getting Covid-19 patients although no new hospitalizations.

I'm wondering if SD is impacting viral loads so most new cases are low viral loads and therefore very low hospitalization rate. Can't think of another reason why the rate is so low.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 12:13:49 AM
Rabbi Rottbergs circle extends beyond Toms River/Lakewood so not much of a datapoint without location of the family, did they observe a strict quarantine, were they recently in a location where the virus is still ongoing etc.

The Lakewood medical practitioners have recently started to develop very decent coordination and sharing of info so if there would be an upswing in cases it should be known fairly quickly....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ari3 on May 28, 2020, 12:16:56 AM
Dr. Lempel (Lakewood) said on Monday that he's still getting Covid-19 patients although no new hospitalizations.

I'm wondering if SD is impacting viral loads so most new cases are low viral loads and therefore very low hospitalization rate. Can't think of another reason why the rate is so low.
May also be because high risk individuals are being very cautious so the new cases would be younger low risk people
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 12:21:59 AM
High risk individuals are generally being more cautious along with the fact that we continue to see under 20 new positive tests daily. The percent of positives in the general population that are hospitalized is minuscule so one would not expect to see significant hospitalizations unless new numbers increase dramatically.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on May 28, 2020, 12:29:10 AM
Dr. Lempel (Lakewood) said on Monday that he's still getting Covid-19 patients although no new hospitalizations.

I'm wondering if SD is impacting viral loads so most new cases are low viral loads and therefore very low hospitalization rate. Can't think of another reason why the rate is so low.
Viruses often mutate. It could be that it is growing weaker with the passage of time.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 28, 2020, 12:35:00 AM
High risk individuals are generally being more cautious along with the fact that we continue to see under 20 new positive tests daily. The percent of positives in the general population that are hospitalized is minuscule so one would not expect to see significant hospitalizations unless new numbers increase dramatically.
Hospitalization rates in symptomatic patients of all ages are relatively high, if there is a steady flow to doctors of new cases (that would mean symptomatic) we should be seeing some hospitalizations.
Viruses often mutate. It could be that it is growing weaker with the passage of time.
I want to believe this is the case.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 12:45:44 AM
Hospitalization rates in symptomatic patients of all ages are relatively high, if there is a steady flow to doctors of new cases (that would mean symptomatic) we should be seeing some hospitalizations.I want to believe this is the case.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
Symptomatic hospitalizations are estimated to be around .034 for all ages (take CDC data for what itís worth). Take out the long term care population, and the vulnerable who are still strictly quarantining and itís probably somewhere around .01- .02
You would have to see hundreds of symptomatic patients to expect meaningful hospitalization numbers.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 28, 2020, 05:38:52 AM
Viruses often mutate. It could be that it is growing weaker with the passage of time.
New strains are being constantly monitored and published, and there is zero evidence of that. https://nextstrain.org

Lower hospitalization rate is solely because of higher testing rates, diluting the percentage of severe symptoms.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on May 28, 2020, 07:38:21 AM
New strains are being constantly monitored and published, and there is zero evidence of that. https://nextstrain.org

Lower hospitalization rate is solely because of higher testing rates, diluting the percentage of severe symptoms.
Also because of early intervention and monitoring of O/Sat levels. If it gets too low doctors will put them on oxygen compressors.

Getting it now is much different then people who were getting it two months ago.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 08:52:02 AM
(http://)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on May 28, 2020, 09:57:48 AM
(http://)

Shocked I tell you.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
Shocked I tell you.
No need to jump the gun. Just a data point and not a very specific or detailed one. Take it in context at this point. I put it out there because we ought to have as much info as possible, no matter which way the info points.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on May 28, 2020, 10:20:05 AM
No need to jump the gun. Just a data point and not a very specific or detailed one. Take it in context at this point. I put it out there because we ought to have as much info as possible, no matter which way the info points.

1. Ask local doctors about their caseloads before drawing conclusions from Hatzolah calls. People are more cognizant of Covid-19 now and will seek medical treatment before they get to a state of needing Hatzolah (as opposed to Purim-Pesach).

2. Lakewood Hatzolah is still getting respiratory distress calls (e.g. 5 on Thursday), as well as some possible Code 19 calls.

This a good datapoint for showing that Hatzolah calls are not the be all, end all.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 28, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
Rabbi Rottbergs circle extends beyond Toms River/Lakewood so not much of a datapoint without location of the family, did they observe a strict quarantine, were they recently in a location where the virus is still ongoing etc.

The Lakewood medical practitioners have recently started to develop very decent coordination and sharing of info so if there would be an upswing in cases it should be known fairly quickly....
The gabbai of a Shul in my neighborhood told me he personally knows 2 people who daven by Rí Rotberg whoíve gotten sick in the last week for the first time with COVID-19, so thatís likely who he was talking about.

He also told me heís close friends with another couple in Lakewood who fell ill this week, father mother and 2 teenage children (positive for COVID, they did not have it previously) are all sicker than they can ever remember being, completely confined to their beds. BH nothing worse.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on May 28, 2020, 02:00:12 PM
The gabbai of a Shul in my neighborhood told me he personally knows 2 people who daven by Rí Rotberg whoíve gotten sick in the last week for the first time with COVID-19, so thatís likely who he was talking about.

He also told me heís close friends with another couple in Lakewood who fell ill this week, father mother and 2 teenage children (positive for COVID, they did not have it previously) are all sicker than they can ever remember being, completely confined to their beds. BH nothing worse.
They stay local or got it elsewhere? Someone I work with also just got it. But he was at his properties around the US the last few weeks and just came down with it
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 28, 2020, 02:05:25 PM
They stay local or got it elsewhere? Someone I work with also just got it. But he was at his properties around the US the last few weeks and just came down with it
I donít know. Iím just repeating what he told me, and he didnít mention that. Even if they picked it up elsewhere, they can have exposed other people while infectious (just as they would have infected their family), so caution is still warranted. The point is that itís still likely possible to catch the virus in Lakewood, despite some people denying that.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on May 28, 2020, 02:06:20 PM
They stay local or got it elsewhere? Someone I work with also just got it. But he was at his properties around the US the last few weeks and just came down with it
Thanks for the DP. So it seems there are more new cases around than some people would have us believe..
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 28, 2020, 02:40:02 PM
The gabbai of a Shul in my neighborhood told me he personally knows 2 people who daven by Rí Rotberg whoíve gotten sick in the last week for the first time with COVID-19, so thatís likely who he was talking about.

He also told me heís close friends with another couple in Lakewood who fell ill this week, father mother and 2 teenage children (positive for COVID, they did not have it previously) are all sicker than they can ever remember being, completely confined to their beds. BH nothing worse.
Thanks. Good data points.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on May 28, 2020, 02:44:01 PM
This a good datapoint for showing that Hatzolah calls are not the be all, end all.

You need both. Doctors will have better early data and  data on asymptomatic patients or patients with minor symptoms.

Hatzalah will have better data about (potentially-?)COVID-related serious heart/neurological incidents, patients being treated for moderate symptoms at home and/or using concentrated (?) oxygen.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on May 28, 2020, 05:47:26 PM
Thanks for the DP. So it seems there are more new cases around than some people would have us believe..
He lives in lakewood. I don't think anyone really believes that there are 0 cases. Point was to flatten the curve. It flattened and now there may be cases here and there but by and large it has really died down bh. Assuming large % of from communities in ny got it I wouldn't be super concerned about another outbreak right now. But obviously we shouldn't let are guards down totally. Nothing good can come out of that.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on May 31, 2020, 08:34:14 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/05/multiple-residents-in-assisted-living-facility-in-lakewood-test-positive-for-covid-19.html

Look at the comments. Some conjecture that it's dead viruses, while others assert that it's new positives.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on May 31, 2020, 08:53:33 AM
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/05/multiple-residents-in-assisted-living-facility-in-lakewood-test-positive-for-covid-19.html

Look at the comments. Some conjecture that it's dead viruses, while others assert that it's new positives.

Itís a nursing home. If there was an old outbreak, they wouldíve known about it already, and have already tested everyone. Thereís no chance that only 3 residents got it a month ago and no one else, and no ones in the home showed symptoms. It only makes sense that itís a new outbreak.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on May 31, 2020, 09:51:02 AM
Itís a nursing home. If there was an old outbreak, they wouldíve known about it already, and have already tested everyone. Thereís no chance that only 3 residents got it a month ago and no one else, and no ones in the home showed symptoms. It only makes sense that itís a new outbreak.
nursing homes across the tristate area were not able to test everyone back in late March and April when they had their outbreaks.  They are all testing all staff and residents now. Many of them are asymptomatic and are showing up positive.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on May 31, 2020, 10:02:48 AM
Itís a nursing home. If there was an old outbreak, they wouldíve known about it already, and have already tested everyone. Thereís no chance that only 3 residents got it a month ago and no one else, and no ones in the home showed symptoms. It only makes sense that itís a new outbreak.
On yom tov I met the admin of a jewish nursing home in NYC, he told me he lost many residents to COVID, and they're going to test all the residents for the first time this week.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: happyyyr on May 31, 2020, 04:13:31 PM
My wife and I were sick for the past few days. Both tested positive today.
Lakewood nj
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on May 31, 2020, 04:14:49 PM
My wife and I were sick for the past few days. Both tested positive today.
Lakewood nj
Refuah Sheleima!!

Any tests or symptoms before this past week?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on May 31, 2020, 04:16:13 PM
My wife and I were sick for the past few days. Both tested positive today.
Lakewood nj
Impossible, the mageifa in Lakewood, Brooklyn, and Monsey is over, anyone wearing a mask is m'katnei emunah  ::)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on May 31, 2020, 04:36:56 PM
Impossible, the mageifa in Lakewood, Brooklyn, and Monsey is over, anyone wearing a mask is m'katnei emunah  ::)

I just got back from a quick trip to Williamsburg where I met with someone to discuss a certain business dealing. The only 2 Jewish people I saw wearing a face mask were what looked like an elderly couple that walked into his office. Every other Jew on the street was not wearing a mask.

This was after he told me that the entire thing is a distant memory of something that happened 2 months ago. The same individual also has an office in Flatbush, where he tells me it's a totally different world.

What did strike me as an interesting contrast was a child approaching a (Jewish) stranger asking him to cross him. I don't think that is common practice in Flatbush or other communities that are stricter about COVID-19 precautions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on May 31, 2020, 04:48:47 PM
What did strike me as an interesting contrast was a child approaching a (Jewish) stranger asking him to cross him.
Is this regular english or something I need to ask @CountValentine about?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on May 31, 2020, 05:06:29 PM
Is this regular english or something I need to ask @CountValentine about?
It's actually an attempt to write something said in the Williamsburg dialect of Yiddish spelled in in the Latin alphabet.

קענסט מיך קראָסן?

Or the full version:

קענסט מיך קראָסן דעם סטריט?

Writing in English "to cross him the street" isn't proper. Writing "to walk him across the street" might be grammatically correct, but would lose the spirit and the mental image, aka killed in the translation.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on May 31, 2020, 05:12:07 PM
something I need to ask @CountValentine about?

Talking if which, is the Count moving his daughters wedding venue to Ohio to be able to accommodate all the guests?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Moshe123 on May 31, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
My wife and I were sick for the past few days. Both tested positive today.
Lakewood nj

Are you publicizing for contact tracing? Have you been to shul?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Jeremiah on May 31, 2020, 05:45:43 PM
My wife and I were sick for the past few days. Both tested positive today.
Lakewood nj
Is this the first time you are having symptoms? 
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on May 31, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
Talking if which, is the Count moving his daughters wedding venue to Ohio to be able to accommodate all the guests?
I hope you meant to say "Speaking of which"
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on May 31, 2020, 06:12:00 PM
I hope you meant to say "Speaking of which"

I'm under the influence of my 2 year old who very cutely mixes somewhat related verbs.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: happyyyr on May 31, 2020, 06:15:51 PM
Is this the first time you are having symptoms? 
Yes. 
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 31, 2020, 06:19:12 PM
Yes.
Were you practicing strict social distancing until now? Did you or your spouse travel outside of Lakewood within the past few weeks?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: 4yourinfo on May 31, 2020, 06:21:48 PM
My wife and I were sick for the past few days. Both tested positive today.
Lakewood nj
Did you test for the flu or strep? I and many others had symptoms 2+ months ago but still got a positive result 2 months later. It's possible you got the virus a while back and now you're sick with something else. What are your symptoms?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on May 31, 2020, 06:23:54 PM
I know of a hospitalization due to coved this weekend in BP.
Guy is 50-55
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on May 31, 2020, 06:39:11 PM
Is this the first time you are having symptoms?

Were you practicing strict social distancing until now? Did you or your spouse travel outside of Lakewood within the past few weeks?

Did you test for the flu or strep? I and many others had symptoms 2+ months ago but still got a positive result 2 months later. It's possible you got the virus a while back and now you're sick with something else. What are your symptoms?

I see pre-Purim denial mode is back in full force once again. When thereís 2500 new cases a day in NY/NJ, and thereís more new cases in the US yesterday than there was 25 days before, you kinda donít need a 60 Minutes investigation to believe that someone in Lakewood may in fact have corona. AFAIK, the Ihr Hatorahô️ coronavirus exemption is still not yet in effect.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 31, 2020, 07:16:16 PM
I see pre-Purim denial mode is back in full force once again. When thereís 2500 new cases a day in NY/NJ, and thereís more new cases in the US yesterday than there was 25 days before, you kinda donít need a 60 Minutes investigation to believe that someone in Lakewood may in fact have corona. AFAIK, the Ihr Hatorahô️ coronavirus exemption is still not yet in effect.

Talk about an agenda. This is about getting reliable data points not proving that it does or doesnít exist. We have several reports of recent symptomatic positive such as Rabbi Rottberg mentioned previously. It is important to know if they fit a pattern and what that pattern is. If they are in strict quarantine and recently went to shul that is a pertinent data point. If they attended a wedding in PA with others from across the US that is a very different data point.

It is obvious that the 20 or so daily positives from the OCHD are a data point but are not going to give us a good picture of whatís really going on.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on May 31, 2020, 07:20:01 PM
Talk about an agenda.
And that would be?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 31, 2020, 07:49:54 PM
And that would be?
No idea. Why would anyone asking valid questions

Were you practicing strict social distancing until now? Did you or your spouse travel outside of Lakewood within the past few weeks?

Did you test for the flu or strep? I and many others had symptoms 2+ months ago but still got a positive result 2 months later. It's possible you got the virus a while back and now you're sick with something else. What are your symptoms?

be relegated to

I see pre-Purim denial mode is back in full force once again.

Sure there are those who were in denial before purim and there will be those in denial if there is a second wave. But valid questions are not something that should be lumped together with them. We ought to focus carefully on the data and the more detailed the data points are the more useful that data is.

I think itís fair to expect some spread with any reopening since a significant amount of people did shelter in place. If and when we do see an uptick in cases it is important to get a good picture. What is the demographic? Is it widespread? Is it leading to significant hospitalizations or chĒv increased mortality? Or is it something to be taken in context as the price of reopening?

And I must say, along with the covid deniers there are extremes on the other side too. Iíve heard people say even one Jewish death is too much and we must keep everything on lockdown unless we can be sure that will not happen.

That is simply not a way to live life. If we looked at every summer season with the tragedies that happen in the water and on the roads, if we looked at every mass event like the siyum hashas and worried over injuries and people getting sick in the cold etc we would be paralyzed with indecision. There is a certain acceptable amount of risk and it has to be proportional. There one acceptable level of risk for a camp wilderness trek. Thereís a different level of acceptable risk for opening shuls and yeshivos and living normal communal Jewish life.

I donít think thereís a consensus of what that level is but it ought to be within a range. And the only way to get a sense of that risk is to get good data. If a second wave comes and is indeed severe (I do not expect to see this) I want to be able to see this in the data so I can be one of the first to take precautions as I did purim time. And if it looks manageable as it does at this point (I do think a number of people getting sick and recovering is an acceptable risk) I want to look at every new data point to see if there are any indications that a close eye should be kept on the situation.

Is it possible we miss the start of a new wave and are caught flatfooted like before purim? Sure. Life is full of risks. As long as our best guess is that that is not the case and the risk is proportional that is the way to go, within reason.



Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on May 31, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
@Yard sale

You summed it up best yourself.

Quote
If a second wave comes and is indeed severe (I do not expect to see this)

What do you see now, that you didnít see before Purim, that led you to your conclusion?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 31, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
@Yard sale

You summed it up best yourself.

What do you see now, that you didnít see before Purim, that led you to your conclusion?

I was referring specifically to Lakewood and at this time I donít think itís reasonable to expect a second wave of the magnitude that would warrant a continued shutdown. The reasons were enumerated many times in these forums, among them, substantial spread throughout Lakewood in the first wave, some level of continued social distancing even among those who have stopped quarantining, lack of superspreader events that were present during the first wave, far better treatment protocols, and many other such factors that have been discussed on these forums. I am not discounting the possibility, and do not have an agenda to negate any data showing the contrary but that seems to be a reasonable assessment at this time. You are welcome to disagree.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on May 31, 2020, 09:29:59 PM
I may be wrong but the impression I got with the questions that were asked of @happyyyr is that they were innocent questions looking to gather information about a specific situation, as opposed to agenda-driven questions looking to prove a broader theory right or wrong.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on May 31, 2020, 09:34:26 PM
I was referring specifically to Lakewood and at this time I donít think itís reasonable to expect a second wave of the magnitude that would warrant a continued shutdown. The reasons were enumerated many times in these forums, among them, substantial spread throughout Lakewood in the first wave, some level of continued social distancing even among those who have stopped quarantining, lack of superspreader events that were present during the first wave, far better treatment protocols, and many other such factors that have been discussed on these forums. I am not discounting the possibility, and do not have an agenda to negate any data showing the contrary but that seems to be a reasonable assessment at this time. You are welcome to disagree.

Yes, the imaginary statistics that you and others are relying on. Before Purim we had similarly scientific reasoning, Lakewood is Ir Hatorah, Lakewood doesnít have any cases, it only affects modox, etc.

As of now, you have no idea what percentage of Lakewood has gotten it. And thereís literally no social distancing for a large percentage of the population and the rest have eased it up a lot. Thereís nothing preventing a second wave besides the one above.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on May 31, 2020, 09:50:40 PM
Yes, the imaginary statistics that you and others are relying on. Before Purim we had similarly scientific reasoning, Lakewood is Ir Hatorah, Lakewood doesnít have any cases, it only affects modox, etc.

As of now, you have no idea what percentage of Lakewood has gotten it. And thereís literally no social distancing for a large percentage of the population and the rest have eased it up a lot. Thereís nothing preventing a second wave besides the one above.

Why are you lumping a reasonable position together with ridiculous ones? Here is my take on it from early on, when many others on DDF were saying there was no evidence it was spreading in the frum community:
Given the incubation period and the fact that itís a frum guy who presumably goes to shul it is exceedingly likely that it is already becoming widespread in the frum community as we speak.
Feel free to take a different position but it doesnít do you any good to lump mine together with the wacko positions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ari3 on May 31, 2020, 09:59:12 PM
I see pre-Purim denial mode is back in full force once again. When thereís 2500 new cases a day in NY/NJ, and thereís more new cases in the US yesterday than there was 25 days before, you kinda donít need a 60 Minutes investigation to believe that someone in Lakewood may in fact have corona. AFAIK, the Ihr Hatorahô️ coronavirus exemption is still not yet in effect.
Yes, the imaginary statistics that you and others are relying on. Before Purim we had similarly scientific reasoning, Lakewood is Ir Hatorah, Lakewood doesnít have any cases, it only affects modox, etc.
You can make your point without your sick attitude
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: SSLPhD on June 01, 2020, 07:53:12 AM
nursing homes across the tristate area were not able to test everyone back in late March and April when they had their outbreaks.  They are all testing all staff and residents now. Many of them are asymptomatic and are showing up positive.
Back to this.  If people are asymptomatic and showing up positive now, how do we know they're contagious?  If a symptomatic person recovers, they are considered non-contagious.  If an asymptomatic person got it two months ago, and remained asymptomatic the entire time, would they not also become non-contagious at some point?  How exactly would we know when an asymptomatic person was infected and if they are indeed contagious?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on June 01, 2020, 07:55:44 AM
Back to this.  If people are asymptomatic and showing up positive now, how do we know they're contagious?  If a symptomatic person recovers, they are considered non-contagious.  If an asymptomatic person got it two months ago, and remained asymptomatic the entire time, would they not also become non-contagious at some point?  How exactly would we know when an asymptomatic person was infected and if they are indeed contagious?
If they have antibodies they're probably not contagious.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on June 01, 2020, 07:55:51 AM
Back to this.  If people are asymptomatic and showing up positive now, how do we know they're contagious?  If a symptomatic person recovers, they are considered non-contagious.  If an asymptomatic person got it two months ago, and remained asymptomatic the entire time, would they not also become non-contagious at some point?  How exactly would we know when an asymptomatic person was infected and if they are indeed contagious?
We donít know that they arenít contagious. That should be enough
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: SSLPhD on June 01, 2020, 08:06:36 AM
If they have antibodies they're probably not contagious.
Are the nursing homes testing for antibodies as well?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: moish on June 01, 2020, 08:44:15 AM
If they have antibodies they're probably not contagious.
How about people that tested positive for antibodies, then got sick and tested positive for Covid?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on June 01, 2020, 08:55:08 AM
How about people that tested positive for antibodies, then got sick and tested positive for Covid?
You know of people who thatís happened too?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on June 01, 2020, 09:17:45 AM
Are the nursing homes testing for antibodies as well?
I don't think they are, but they can still put them in the COVID unit without putting them at additional risk.
How about people that tested positive for antibodies, then got sick and tested positive for Covid?
They're probably not sick with COVID.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on June 01, 2020, 09:41:06 AM
Are the nursing homes testing for antibodies as well?
not the residents. Many tested the staff for antibodies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Ergel on June 01, 2020, 09:45:30 AM
not the residents. Many tested the staff for antibodies.
Only to be told that they still need to test for COVID even if they have antibodies
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on June 01, 2020, 09:46:33 AM
Only to be told that they still need to test for COVID even if they have antibodies
yup :-\
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on June 01, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
Viruses often mutate. It could be that it is growing weaker with the passage of time.
This is interesting
https://hamodia.com/2020/05/31/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says/
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on June 02, 2020, 10:23:47 PM
Dr. Fenster sent out an email that all of the main Lakewood practices are collaborating to track new cases. They said there have been 5 new cases in the community over the last week, including one toddler in their practice who has been playing with many children.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: joeberg on June 03, 2020, 12:01:39 AM
Dr. Fenster sent out an email that all of the main Lakewood practices are collaborating to track new cases. They said there have been 5 new cases in the community over the last week, including one toddler in their practice who has been playing with many children.
Do you have a copy of the email?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yesitsme on June 03, 2020, 12:17:18 AM
Do you have a copy of the email?
PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD THIS EMAIL OR POST IT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: elimmm on June 03, 2020, 12:19:44 AM
Don't all the local Hatzalas keep track as well? (Obviously that would only mean people who've had it really bad)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on June 03, 2020, 12:42:34 AM

THIS EMAIL IS INTENDED FOR FAMILIES OF KINDER PEDIATRICS
OR OTHER FAMILIES WHO SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF KINDER PEDIATRICS.
PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD THIS EMAIL OR POST IT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
FAMILIES WHO WISH TO ADD THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS
TO THIS LIST SERVE ARE WELCOME TO DO SO.
Please delete this post.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on June 03, 2020, 12:45:29 AM
Don't all the local Hatzalas keep track as well? (Obviously that would only mean people who've had it really bad)
People are more cognizant of Covid-19 now and will seek medical treatment before they get to a state of needing Hatzolah (as opposed to Purim-Pesach).
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on June 03, 2020, 01:53:55 AM
Why are you lumping a reasonable position together with ridiculous ones? Here is my take on it from early on, when many others on DDF were saying there was no evidence it was spreading in the frum community:Feel free to take a different position but it doesnít do you any good to lump mine together with the wacko positions.

Forgive me for mocking you with the others. I donít think itís a reasonable position to take based on the lack of evidence spring your position, and the risk associated with getting it wrong. We know corona was basically eradicated from Lakewood, but not entirely, and certainly not for good. Which means if itís reintroduced, and there isnít herd immunity - and based on NYC antibody stats, is extremely reasonable to assume - we are risking lives needlessly with the lack of social distancing. Just like the virus took a while to spread quietly and finally become noticeable after Purim, with all the lockdowns it can take a while for the coin entail spread to rear itís ugly head once again.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on June 03, 2020, 01:56:58 AM
You can make your point without your sick attitude

Repeating what others have mentioned is a sick attitude? While you calling for no social distancing based on absolutely nothing besides complete lack of self control is a beautiful attitude. Got it.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on June 03, 2020, 10:40:00 AM
Forgive me for mocking you with the others. I donít think itís a reasonable position to take based on the lack of evidence spring your position, and the risk associated with getting it wrong. We know corona was basically eradicated from Lakewood, but not entirely, and certainly not for good. Which means if itís reintroduced, and there isnít herd immunity - and based on NYC antibody stats, is extremely reasonable to assume - we are risking lives needlessly with the lack of social distancing. Just like the virus took a while to spread quietly and finally become noticeable after Purim, with all the lockdowns it can take a while for the coin entail spread to rear itís ugly head once again.
I don't think it's reasonable to completely ignore the many differences between now and before purim including

I'm sure some of these have a bigger effect than others, but to ignore the fact that they exist and change the equation significantly is intellectually dishonest.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on June 03, 2020, 11:21:46 AM
I don't think it's reasonable to completely ignore the many differences between now and before purim including
  • There is at least some immunity within our community
  • There is (and will continue to be) a limit on the number of people who can gather, even if it only applies to the biggest events (which are the biggest cause of mass spreading)
  • There is still a requirement to wear masks in stores (which are high traffic areas)
  • People are still keeping some social distancing (some people more than others, but enough to at least help the situation)
  • High risk people are still being very careful
  • Regular people are aware to quarantine (or at least try to avoid contact with other people) if they have been exposed or have symptoms
  • Doctors are more aware and don't make fun if people if they ask if they think they have COVID
  • Testing is readily available to identify new cases so we will know if it starts spreading rapidly way earlier than last time

I'm sure some of these have a bigger effect than others, but to ignore the fact that they exist and change the equation significantly is intellectually dishonest.
All of these are good points other than 2.

The biggest causes of mass spreading are most likely offices, shuls, and batei medrash (and the like)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on June 03, 2020, 11:22:32 AM
All of these are good points other than 2.

The biggest causes of mass spreading are most likely offices, shuls, and batei medrash (and the like)
IF they stay within the legal limits, there will be much less spreading than if they don't
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on June 03, 2020, 11:28:03 AM
IF they stay within the legal limits, there will be much less spreading than if they don't

Yeah that's number 4
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on June 03, 2020, 11:29:37 AM
All of these are good points other than 2.

The biggest causes of mass spreading are most likely offices, shuls, and batei medrash (and the like)
I updated it. Weddings are definitely a big cause of mass spreading in our community, and sports games are probably a bigger cause of mass spread outside our community.

Shuls etc. are usually the same group of people, so if 1 person spreads it most of those who get aren't likely to spread it to a new group. Obviously the more groups and the bigger the group each person is part of the more it will spread. This is also the issue with minyan factories.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on June 03, 2020, 11:33:52 AM
I updated it. Weddings are definitely a big cause of mass spreading in our community, and sports games are probably a bigger cause of mass spread outside our community.

Shuls etc. are usually the same group of people, so if 1 person spreads it most of those who get aren't likely to spread it to a new group. Obviously the more groups and the bigger the group each person is part of the more it will spread. This is also the issue with minyan factories.
Yes weddings probably are but are also mostly family and friends who already associate with each other.

That is unless they daven in more than one place, go to an office, learn in a differnt bais medrash or more than one.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on June 03, 2020, 11:42:19 AM
Shuls in Lakewood do not strictlyly contain the same group of people, e.g. people having relatives over for shabbos, chavrusas coming from across town to daven in the shul, amongst many other scenarios.

A scenario where it can leak: father davens in shul -> catches it from another member -> transfers to child who goes to camp/school ->  child transfers to 10 other kids/teachers -> transfers it to their respective families -> fathers spread it in shul.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on June 03, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Yes weddings probably are but are also mostly family and friends who already associate with each other.

That is unless they daven in more than one place, go to an office, learn in a differnt bais medrash or more than one.
Between 2 completely separate families and all of their family and friends who they don't regularly come in contact with, there is definitely spread to many people who wouldn't otherwise come in contact with each other.
Shuls in Lakewood do not contain strictly the same group of people, e.g. people having relatives over for shabbos, chavrusas coming from across town to daven in the shul, amongst many other scenarios.

A scenario where it can leak: father davens in shul -> catches it from another member -> transfers to child who goes to camp/school ->  child transfers to 10 other kids/teachers -> transfers it to their respective families -> fathers spread it in shul.
The point is to slow the spread and keep it under control, not to stop it completely. Of course there are other people from outside there, but most of the people are from the same group. Same goes for your scenario where it can leak, 5 steps takes much longer than 1 or 2 steps.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on June 03, 2020, 11:59:10 AM
Between 2 completely separate families and all of their family and friends who they don't regularly come in contact with, there is definitely spread to many people who wouldn't otherwise come in contact with each other. The point is to slow the spread and keep it under control, not to stop it completely. Of course there are other people from outside there, but most of the people are from the same group. Same goes for your scenario where it can leak, 5 steps takes much longer than 1 or 2 steps.

Yes as in many scenarios with shuls/yeshivos/etc.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on June 03, 2020, 12:24:22 PM
Yes as in many scenarios with shuls/yeshivos/etc.
Agreed, but it's one more place where it won't spread as much. Nothing that I posted is foolproof or anywhere near that, but collectively they slow the spread significantly.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on June 03, 2020, 01:00:33 PM
Agreed, but it's one more place where it won't spread as much. Nothing that I posted is foolproof or anywhere near that, but collectively they slow the spread significantly.
Yes, any small item helps slow the spread. Some more than others.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on June 08, 2020, 11:18:41 PM
Relative got a call from the Health Department today. Contact tracer for a positive test from six weeks ago....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on June 08, 2020, 11:33:59 PM
Relative got a call from the Health Department today. Contact tracer for a positive test from six weeks ago....

Retarded waste of resources. As if anything they ask or tell him will make a difference now...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 09, 2020, 04:29:50 PM
Relative got a call from the Health Department today. Contact tracer for a positive test from six weeks ago....
Hilarious
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on June 19, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on June 19, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
Lakewood seems to have a race to the bottom for "news" sites.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 01, 2020, 05:01:21 PM
BREAKING: I have a reliable report that there seems to be a COVID resurgence beginning in Lakewood. Five frum community members tested positive yesterday, and 5 new cases are pending today. A FRUM MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY IS NOW IN THE ICU. Another frum man, from Florida, worked in a large Lakewood day camp and had close contact with many people, and he just tested positive.

Guys, it's crazy how we are throwing caution to the wind. This seems to be a major issue. Please spread the word to anyone you know, so that they can take all needed precautions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 05:10:57 PM

I can confirm, I know which day camp this is. Itís 100% true.

Guys. Please use your brains.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 01, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
I can confirm, I know which day camp this is. Itís 100% true.

Guys. Please use your brains.
A family member of mine did predict this last week. Said that they were worried people from Florida were gonna reintroduce the virus into our neighborhoods chĒv
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 05:14:13 PM
A family member of mine did predict this last week. Said that they were worried people from Florida were gonna reintroduce the virus into our neighborhoods chĒv
I really donít get why we canít just use seichel. We are (or were) clearly not in the same place as Purim time, and by just being smart we could (have?) keep(t?) this under control. A few cases isnít the end of the world. A new outbreak is.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 01, 2020, 05:16:50 PM
A family member of mine did predict this last week. Said that they were worried people from Florida were gonna reintroduce the virus into our neighborhoods chĒv

Many of us were predicting this, but thankfully we were wrong until now. I will happily eat crow because I truly expected to see more cases at an earlier date. I think we can control this outbreak but people need to be cautious again.
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
I really donít get why we canít just use seichel. We are (or were) clearly not in the same place as Purim time, and by just being smart we could (have?) keep(t?) this under control. A few cases isnít the end of the world. A new outbreak is.
Maybe the rabbonim will actually say something this time around before it gets out of hand? Hahaha who am I fooling.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 05:40:20 PM
Maybe the rabbonim will actually say something this time around before it gets out of hand? Hahaha who am I fooling.
Iím not going to like this post
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 01, 2020, 05:50:22 PM
Many of us were predicting this, but thankfully we were wrong until now. I will happily eat crow because I truly expected to see more cases at an earlier date. I think we can control this outbreak but people need to be cautious again.
+1
Unfortunately it's going to be harder this time around thanks to the extended lockdown.

ETA: and we didn't give everyone much time to "air out".
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 06:17:33 PM
Many of us were predicting this, but thankfully we were wrong until now. I will happily eat crow because I truly expected to see more cases at an earlier date. I think we can control this outbreak but people need to be cautious again.

I guess we are going to find out fairly soon if Lakewood mostly has herd immunity or not. The reality is that people will not be social distancing over the next few days. We can certainly anticipate some infections. It is unreasonable to assume that everyone in Lakewood is immune or has had it. If there are new positive individuals circulating in Lakewood especially in settings with large crowds it is reasonable to assume that there will be some cases.

The real question is if it is possible to have a large outbreak in Lakewwod even remotely similar to April, and I still believe that that it is not . Itís certainly worth keeping a very close eye on the situation now that we do see individuals bringing it back from other states, and it is prudent for those who are immunocompromised to take some precautions, but there are no indications that a large outbreak is in the works. Letís keep a close eye on the numbers and see what evolves.

Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 06:31:18 PM
I guess we are going to find out fairly soon if Lakewood mostly has herd immunity or not. The reality is that people will not be social distancing over the next few days. We can certainly anticipate some infections. It is unreasonable to assume that everyone in Lakewood is immune or has had it. If there are new positive individuals circulating in Lakewood especially in settings with large crowds it is reasonable to assume that there will be some cases.

The real question is if it is possible to have a large outbreak in Lakewwod even remotely similar to April, and I still believe that that it is not . Itís certainly worth keeping a very close eye on the situation now that we do see individuals bringing it back from other states, and it is prudent for those who are immunocompromised to take some precautions, but there are no indications that a large outbreak is in the works. Letís keep a close eye on the numbers and see what evolves.
So, thatís your opinion. Now, should we be risking lives (by *not* taking basic precautions i.e. masks) based on your opinion? You be the judge.

Wait and see isnít really an intelligent option when you have the ability to change a possible adverse outcome.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 06:37:50 PM
So, thatís your opinion. Now, should we be risking lives (by *not* taking basic precautions i.e. masks) based on your opinion? You be the judge.

Wait and see isnít really an intelligent option when you have the ability to change a possible adverse outcome.
I think @Yard sale is stating the practical, realistic viewpoint. Let's be honest, no one is changing their behavior, definitely not over the next week or two. They'll unfortunately need to see it to believe it.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 06:40:42 PM
I think @Yard sale is stating the practical, realistic viewpoint. Let's be honest, no one is changing their behavior, definitely not over the next week or two. They'll unfortunately need to see it to believe it.
No one? I donít think thatís true. A majority of people? That can be remedied by people in positions of power strictly enforcing restrictions.

No need to face reality if we can effect change to that reality.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 06:42:57 PM
No one? I donít think thatís true. A majority of people? That can be remedied by people in positions of power strictly enforcing restrictions.

No need to face reality if we can effect change to that reality.
I also would like a million dollars.

Do you honestly think that people in positions of power are going to say/do anything?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 01, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
I also would like a million dollars.

Do you honestly think that people in positions of power are going to say/do anything?
They may not be aware of what's going on. Every person should talk to those in power.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 07:32:19 PM
So, thatís your opinion. Now, should we be risking lives (by *not* taking basic precautions i.e. masks) based on your opinion? You be the judge.

Wait and see isnít really an intelligent option when you have the ability to change a possible adverse outcome.
Itís just not going to happen. Talk masks and most people in Lakewood will look at you blankly. Like it or not we will be seeing the extent of Lakewoodís immunity.

That is the reality on the ground, but as far as what ought to ideally be doing, I get the position that small precautions that are easy to take might make sense at this point but to be honest with you there is a reasonable, acceptable  degree of risk we take in going about our daily lives. Masks are an imposition. They are uncomfortable, they restrict oneís oxygen and they stifle communication.

There are those who will say if we can potentially save even a single live how can we consider convenience? Doesnít Halacha put saving a life above all else? However, thatís not the way we live our lives nor is it what Halacha mandates. We do not abandon going to the country or driving hundreds of miles to vacation destinations (even when there are closer alternatives that just arenít as convenient) or family simchos, often late at night despite the fact that  statistically lives of bochurim, and sometimes families are lost every year on these trips (I.e. recently in New Square). This is historically the way Klal Yisroel has approached this, and there are numerous examples of this.

There is a reasonable risk that we take in our normal daily lives and at this point I think normal healthy people living their lives without masks in areas with low virus presence falls well within those parameters. An immunocompromised person or senior with a higher risk profile might decide that a mask is warranted at this point and that may be the right thing for their situation and hishtadlus. But imposing safety precautions on an entire population to address a risk that is at this point low is not in keeping with the way we are meant to run our lives, and have been running our lives for generations. Does the situation change if there is ChĒv a huge uptick? Yes. But imposing measures because ďwhat if there is an uptick, wonít we regret not taking precautions?Ē is just not warranted.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 07:43:37 PM
Itís just not going to happen. Talk masks and most people in Lakewood will look at you blankly. Like it or not we will be seeing the extent of Lakewoodís immunity.

That is the reality on the ground, but as far as what ought to ideally be doing, I get the position that small precautions that are easy to take might make sense at this point but to be honest with you there is a reasonable, acceptable  degree of risk we take in going about our daily lives. Masks are an imposition. They are uncomfortable, they restrict oneís oxygen and they stifle communication.

There are those who will say if we can potentially save even a single live how can we consider convenience? Doesnít Halacha put saving a life above all else? However, thatís not the way we live our lives nor is it what Halacha mandates. We do not abandon going to the country or driving hundreds of miles to vacation destinations (even when there are closer alternatives that just arenít as convenient) or family simchos, often late at night despite the fact that  statistically lives of bochurim, and sometimes families are lost every year on these trips (I.e. recently in New Square). This is historically the way Klal Yisroel has approached this, and there are numerous examples of this.

There is a reasonable risk that we take in our normal daily lives and at this point I think normal healthy people living their lives without masks in areas with low virus presence falls well within those parameters. An immunocompromised person or senior with a higher risk profile might decide that a mask is warranted at this point and that may be the right thing for their situation and hishtadlus. But imposing safety precautions on an entire population to address a risk that is at this point low is not in keeping with the way we are meant to run our lives, and have been running our lives for generations. Does the situation change if there is ChĒv a huge uptick? Yes. But imposing measures because ďwhat if there is an uptick, wonít we regret not taking precautions?Ē is just not warranted.
Moving minyanim back outdoors would seem to be a relatively small precaution with the most bang for the buck...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Itís just not going to happen. Talk masks and most people in Lakewood will look at you blankly. Like it or not we will be seeing the extent of Lakewoodís immunity.

That is the reality on the ground, but as far as what ought to ideally be doing, I get the position that small precautions that are easy to take might make sense at this point but to be honest with you there is a reasonable, acceptable  degree of risk we take in going about our daily lives. Masks are an imposition. They are uncomfortable, they restrict oneís oxygen and they stifle communication.

There are those who will say if we can potentially save even a single live how can we consider convenience? Doesnít Halacha put saving a life above all else? However, thatís not the way we live our lives nor is it what Halacha mandates. We do not abandon going to the country or driving hundreds of miles to vacation destinations (even when there are closer alternatives that just arenít as convenient) or family simchos, often late at night despite the fact that  statistically lives of bochurim, and sometimes families are lost every year on these trips (I.e. recently in New Square). This is historically the way Klal Yisroel has approached this, and there are numerous examples of this.

There is a reasonable risk that we take in our normal daily lives and at this point I think normal healthy people living their lives without masks in areas with low virus presence falls well within those parameters. An immunocompromised person or senior with a higher risk profile might decide that a mask is warranted at this point and that may be the right thing for their situation and hishtadlus. But imposing safety precautions on an entire population to address a risk that is at this point low is not in keeping with the way we are meant to run our lives, and have been running our lives for generations. Does the situation change if there is ChĒv a huge uptick? Yes. But imposing measures because ďwhat if there is an uptick, wonít we regret not taking precautions?Ē is just not warranted.
I need the hamster wheel here @CountValentine

We are once again at *potentially* the beginning of an outbreak. No, itís not the same as cars or the flu or all that good stuff. Yes, we should all be wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, davening outdoors, and limiting crowd sizes or ďbubblesĒ. False equivalency: your straw man argument, as usual, is ridiculous and tiresome. You want to wait until itís too late again? Once thereís a full on outbreak itís too late. Weíve seen that happen already. TO US.

Thereís no what if. There is an uptick. Last time it took a couple of weeks max before dozens died and hundreds were hospitalized. Car accidents, my eye.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 01, 2020, 08:03:36 PM
I need the hamster wheel here @CountValentine
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVrdgWCx/Secondhand-Easy-Azurevase-size-restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 08:06:57 PM
Hereís an easy way to outsource the question to a knowledgeable third party whether people wearing masks amid a potential COVID outbreak is akin to not driving anywhere, ever or if it is like reasonable restrictions (nobody under 21 drive in the country, no speeding or driving drunk, seatbelts, etc.)

Ask a doctor the following 2 questions:
Do you think we can drive to the country weekly?
Do you think we should wear a mask now after seeing this uptick?

If all their advice is just to CYA then the answer will be the same. If they use their educated and informed decision making (which we always trust) to give different answers to the two questions then we can assume that the two risk-reward trade offs are NOT the same. Fair?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 01, 2020, 08:08:18 PM
So my sons school and camp are closed already because a school teacher got corona.

This rebbi is family with my married daughter who is now quarantining due to exposure to the same person, so due to my personal knowledge I will temporarily step out of my DDF quarantine and give over some information here.

I suspect that this is the same origin as this
BREAKING: I have a reliable report that there seems to be a COVID resurgence beginning in Lakewood. Five frum community members tested positive yesterday, and 5 new cases are pending today. A FRUM MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY IS NOW IN THE ICU. Another frum man, from Florida, worked in a large Lakewood day camp and had close contact with many people, and he just tested positive.

Guys, it's crazy how we are throwing caution to the wind. This seems to be a major issue. Please spread the word to anyone you know, so that they can take all needed precautions.

If it is then I know that the entire family quarantined in FL for 2 weeks before coming. This would mean that it was contracted either in transit or after arriving in Lakewood.
No one? I donít think thatís true. A majority of people? That can be remedied by people in positions of power strictly enforcing restrictions.

No need to face reality if we can effect change to that reality.
They may not be aware of what's going on. Every person should talk to those in power.

The ones who can effect change are the the doctors. The letter they put out yesterday is a start but will not get anyone to change much. Everyone will say that they were not with anyone in FL. If they come out strongly about this it can change directions quickly, at least for some of the more at risk population who has gotten more lax recently.

It will definitely be much harder because of this
+1
Unfortunately it's going to be harder this time around thanks to the extended lockdown.

ETA: and we didn't give everyone much time to "air out".
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 01, 2020, 08:16:50 PM
The ones who can effect change are the the doctors. The letter they put out yesterday is a start but will not get anyone to change much. Everyone will say that they were not with anyone in FL. If they come out strongly about this it can change directions quickly, at least for some of the more at risk population who has gotten more lax recently.

It will definitely be much harder because of this
This.
While posting on DDF can bring awareness, anyone who thinks people will make any reasonable change based on it is out of their mind. I suspect the doctors are waiting for evidence of community spread and/or a larger number of new cases before pushing restrictions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on July 01, 2020, 08:24:57 PM
So, thatís your opinion. Now, should we be risking lives (by *not* taking basic precautions i.e. masks) based on your opinion? You be the judge.

Wait and see isnít really an intelligent option when you have the ability to change a possible adverse outcome.
I think anyone being intellectually honest will agree that wearing a mask is a small tradoff (and not an imposition).
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on July 01, 2020, 08:32:21 PM
That's a lot of yellow and light orange. When will we start talking precautions? When it's dark orange? Red?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 08:34:31 PM

I suspect that this is the same origin as this
If it is then I know that the entire family quarantined in FL for 2 weeks before coming. This would mean that it was contracted either in transit or after arriving in Lakewood.
Good to hear that they were being responsible, but it's still possible that the 2 week FL quarantine wasn't sealed off enough.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 08:51:10 PM
This rebbi is family with my married daughter who is now quarantining due to exposure to the same person, so due to my personal knowledge I will temporarily step out of my DDF quarantine and give over some information here.

I suspect that this is the same origin as this
If it is then I know that the entire family quarantined in FL for 2 weeks before coming. This would mean that it was contracted either in transit or after arriving in Lakewood.
If they quarantined in Florida like most people quarantined in Lakewood thatís not saying much. What are the odds that they contacted it in Lakewood rather than catching it in Florida despite the quarantine, or in the airport? I imagine minuscule.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 01, 2020, 08:54:32 PM
I think pretty much all of the staff at MCO had Corona, but also people tend to overestimate their version of lockdown. Additionally there are documented cases of people who developed symptoms only after 14 days
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 08:56:41 PM
That's a lot of yellow and light orange. When will we start talking precautions? When it's dark orange? Red?
When the orange and red amounts to meaningful numbers not just more or less than before
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on July 01, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
When the orange and red amounts to meaningful numbers not just more or less than before
In other words, too late.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 01, 2020, 09:01:29 PM
If Rabbi Yisroel Reisman would be a rov in Lakewood and would hear about an uptick, he would demand that everyone in his shul start wearing masks and maintaining a reasonable distance.

You are naive if you think that every Lakewood rov is like him, but you are foolish if you think that there are no Lakewood rabbonim like him.

Speak to your rov. He may not do anything. But if he does, you can save lives. It seems almost certain.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 01, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
If Rabbi Yisroel Reisman would be a rov in Lakewood and would hear about an uptick, he would demand that everyone in his shul start wearing masks and maintaining a reasonable distance.

You are naive if you think that every Lakewood rov is like him, but you are foolish if you think that there are no Lakewood rabbonim like him.

Speak to your rov. He may not do anything. But if he does, you can save lives. It seems almost certain.
R' Uren Reich was very vocal first time around...someone should talk to him.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 09:22:04 PM
In other words, too late.
The numbers have to be meaningfu to be of any use. Dutchess county is orange for example . They have 7 positives up from a just under that a few days ago. Makes for a pretty color but is meaningless. Real data is test numbers, percent positives, and random antibody sampling that show significant trends.

Hereís the accompanying chart in that article which is a far more accurate picture
(http://)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 01, 2020, 09:36:00 PM
That's a lot of yellow and light orange. When will we start talking precautions? When it's dark orange? Red?

I've been following the daily numbers for NY/NJ, and these graphics don't reflect reality.
The graph is showing COVID cases are increasing almost in every county, while new cases have been decreasing or flat for more than 2 months across the board.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on July 01, 2020, 09:36:41 PM
I've been following the daily numbers for NY/NJ, and these graphics don't reflect reality.
The graph is showing COVID cases are increasing almost in every county, while new cases have been decreasing or flat for more than 2 months across the board.
What's the pshat?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 01, 2020, 09:41:46 PM
What's the pshat?

I have no idea as I didn't see the source, but I would guess they set illogical criteria behind each color.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 01, 2020, 09:43:10 PM
What's the pshat?
The bar charts are showing absolute number changes so an increase of 2 in Dutchess looks to be equal to a decrease of 100 in NYC
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on July 01, 2020, 09:44:03 PM
The bar charts are showing absolute number changes so an increase of 2 in Dutchess looks to be equal to a decrease of 100 in NYC
That doesn't explain what yuneeq did about cases going down.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 09:59:38 PM
That doesn't explain what yuneeq did about cases going down.
It does. Total NY can be going down even if most counties are going up, because NYC has had 10x more cases than the next. So even if NYC went down by 100 while other places ticked up by 5-10 apiece, total numbers would still be going down.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on July 01, 2020, 10:12:52 PM
It does. Total NY can be going down even if most counties are going up, because NYC has had 10x more cases than the next. So even if NYC went down by 100 while other places ticked up by 5-10 apiece, total numbers would still be going down.
That's not what he said. I don't cate if total cases are going down of they're going up in  certain places.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 10:14:51 PM
That's not what he said. I don't cate if total cases are going down of they're going up in  certain places.
I read his post as total numbers in NY/NJ going down. Perhaps I misread.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 01, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
If Rabbi Yisroel Reisman would be a rov in Lakewood and would hear about an uptick, he would demand that everyone in his shul start wearing masks and maintaining a reasonable distance.

You are naive if you think that every Lakewood rov is like him, but you are foolish if you think that there are no Lakewood rabbonim like him.

Speak to your rov. He may not do anything. But if he does, you can save lives. It seems almost certain.
@YitzyS I'm surprised! YOAP! You said you were inspired by Tucker Carlson's message last night, which (I think) was that if you want your leaders to change, you have to tell them what you think is needed.

Get your marketing committee back on board, design a letter or flyer and send it to all the rabbonim in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 01, 2020, 10:20:43 PM
@YitzyS I'm surprised! YOAP! You said you were inspired by Tucker Carlson's message last night, which (I think) was that if you want your leaders to change, you have to tell them what you think is needed.

Get your marketing committee back on board, design a letter or flyer and send it to all the rabbonim in Lakewood.
I'm busy trying to feed my family, and don't have time this minute to head such a campaign. But I'm trying to stir it up on DDF so it will happen through another person.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 01, 2020, 10:45:34 PM
I have a bunch of Floridians hanging around in my house. At what point can we sound the all-clear knowing that our antibodies work?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 10:55:11 PM
I have a bunch of Floridians hanging around in my house. At what point can we sound the all-clear knowing that our antibodies work?
Just about everyone agrees at this point that antibodies work (for some time). As has been stated repeatedly. At what point will you hear the all clear that has been sounded?

Not to mention, hailing from Florida in no way means you are infected.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 01, 2020, 10:58:57 PM
I think anyone being intellectually honest will agree that wearing a mask is a small tradoff (and not an imposition).
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2020, 11:09:58 PM
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
Get a better mask.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 11:24:52 PM
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
Do you have any respiratory issues, like asthma?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: grodnoking on July 01, 2020, 11:44:06 PM


Get a worse mask.
FTFY
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 01, 2020, 11:45:58 PM
Just about everyone agrees at this point that antibodies work (for some time).

Source?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 01, 2020, 11:52:50 PM
Source?

All the hardcore corona truthers on DDF believe it. Havenít seen anyone say otherwise any time in more than a month (maybe 2).
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 01, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
Source?
You posited that people donít. Whatís your source?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: skv on July 02, 2020, 12:00:21 AM
Just about everyone agrees at this point that antibodies work (for some time). As has been stated repeatedly. At what point will you hear the all clear that has been sounded?

Not to mention, hailing from Florida in no way means you are infected.

I know two people who really seem to have had corona twice. They had the real symptoms around Purim time and then got sick again within the past few weeks. Everyone who knows them keeps suggesting lots of theories how maybe they didn't have it the first time, maybe it is a false positive this time..... for some reason, nobody believes the theory that maybe, just maybe, they did get it twice. After all, it would ruin the whole "corona is over" story in Lakewood...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 02, 2020, 12:18:11 AM
I know two people who really seem to have had corona twice. They had the real symptoms around Purim time and then got sick again within the past few weeks. Everyone who knows them keeps suggesting lots of theories how maybe they didn't have it the first time, maybe it is a false positive this time..... for some reason, nobody believes the theory that maybe, just maybe, they did get it twice. After all, it would ruin the whole "corona is over" story in Lakewood...
It would also kind of ruin the multi billion dollar corona vaccine initiative that all the Lockdown advocates are waiting for to usher in the new era.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: skv on July 02, 2020, 12:26:07 AM
It would also kind of ruin the multi billion dollar corona vaccine initiative that all the Lockdown advocates are waiting for to usher in the new era.

Not really. Some of the vaccines work in a different way that would create an immunity that getting the virus wouldn't. But the vaccine won't work because not enough people would be willing to take it, being that they would in essence just be signing the whole world up for a clinical trial on it
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 02, 2020, 02:21:03 AM
It would also kind of ruin the multi billion dollar corona vaccine initiative that all the Lockdown advocates are waiting for to usher in the new era.

Who are the lockdown advocates?

I find it ironic that the most likely reason for any future mass closures is people who refuse to take any small steps to prevent spread in the name of their personal freedoms.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 02, 2020, 02:22:59 AM
I have a bunch of Floridians hanging around in my house. At what point can we sound the all-clear knowing that our antibodies work?
so when people ignore express rulings of local rabbonim, you support that?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 02:24:16 AM
You posited that people donít. Whatís your source?

Did I? In any event, the Israeli ministry of health (supposedly relying on the CDC and/or WHO) claim that it is unknown if antibodies provide any immunity.

See: https://www.health.gov.il/Subjects/disease/corona/Documents/bz-259782620.pdf
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 02:26:16 AM
so when people ignore express rulings of local rabbonim, you support that?

Not sure what ruling you are referring to, I have seen a request, not a ruling. And guess who is going to be mesader kiddushin for the wedding?

Would you expect me to tell them that they can't come to my house?

I have no fear whatsoever of (re)infection for myself and my immediate family, nor do I think anyone coming to my house might get infected from my immediate family. The guests are adults (with their children) and make their own decisions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 08:03:03 AM
Do you have any respiratory issues, like asthma?
no
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on July 02, 2020, 08:07:00 AM
no
IME it takes getting used to. The first few days I wore a mask I also couldn't breath and felt claustrophobic. After 2-3 days of wearing it I did not have any issue.


Anyone living in Israel had to go through this as we can't walk outside without a mask without getting fined.


It's not really comfortable, but there aren't any breathing issues after getting used to it. 
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 08:26:25 AM
I have no fear whatsoever of (re)infection for myself and my immediate family, nor do I think anyone coming to my house might get infected from my immediate family. The guests are adults (with their children) and make their own decisions.
But does seeing you without a mask cause your guests to have fear?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 02, 2020, 08:40:39 AM
Would you expect me to tell them that they can't come to my house?
in situations where said rabbinic guidance applies (this case evidently an exception) I would hope so. It's from the few teeth they have. (aside from waving a picture, to quote said rabbi)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: moish on July 02, 2020, 08:43:10 AM

Anyone living in Israel had to go through this as we can't walk outside without a mask without getting fined.

IDK, driving around today I saw plenty without masks, not even on their chins
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 08:44:19 AM
But does seeing you without a mask cause your guests to have fear?
Evidently not, or they wouldn't come to my house. They decided not to live stream their wedding so as not to evoke criticism in their community, which would be inevitable watching a wedding where it's likely that very few will be wearing masks.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 08:45:30 AM
IDK, driving around today I saw plenty without masks, not even on their chins

POIDH!

Location?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: moish on July 02, 2020, 08:47:59 AM
POIDH!

Location?
Shamgar
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 09:08:10 AM
IME it takes getting used to. The first few days I wore a mask I also couldn't breath and felt claustrophobic. After 2-3 days of wearing it I did not have any issue.


Anyone living in Israel had to go through this as we can't walk outside without a mask without getting fined.


It's not really comfortable, but there aren't any breathing issues after getting used to it.
Not IME
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 09:09:15 AM
You posited that people donít. Whatís your source?
DDF  :P
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on July 02, 2020, 09:10:44 AM
IDK, driving around today I saw plenty without masks, not even on their chins
Guess neighborhoods matter. Any semi-busy street in my parts (or along yaffo) you won't see a person walking without a mask.


Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 09:15:48 AM
Evidently not, or they wouldn't come to my house. They decided not to live stream their wedding so as not to evoke criticism in their community, which would be inevitable watching a wedding where it's likely that very few will be wearing masks.
So they weren't fearful, just uncomfortable enough that they didn't allow their own community to share in their simcha?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 09:18:40 AM
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
You, @avromie7, are hereby absolved from having to wear a mask.
But you should double down on social distancing and hand washing.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 09:20:02 AM
So they weren't fearful, just uncomfortable enough that they didn't allow their own community to share in their simcha?

I'm not going to try to practice psychology. And I'm not sure why you put the two issues in one sentence.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
You, @avromie7, are hereby absolved from having to wear a mask.
But you should double down on social distancing and hand washing.
So are you saying 12ft rather than 6ft?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mgarfin on July 02, 2020, 09:39:41 AM
Get a better mask.

Any recommendation?
Spent a full day yesterday in the ER with a mask It wasn't easy
I had the classic reply light blue mask
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 09:40:14 AM
I'm not going to try to practice psychology. And I'm not sure why you put the two issues in one sentence.
Thinking about how other people feel isn't "practicing psychology". 

I put them in one sentence because (a) they both seemed to deal with your guests' feelings, and (b) you put them in one paragraph and (c) I'm practicing writing more concisely.

And (d), I'm not picking on you, but upset about a couple I know with underlying conditions who made the long drive from OOT to Lakewood for a vort, and wore a mask when entering the home of the machatonim, who did not wear a mask themselves.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on July 02, 2020, 10:38:40 AM
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
As a rule, I am always speaking for myself. In no way did I imply that I am speaking on behalf of the DDFC or any community for that matter.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
Any recommendation?
Spent a full day yesterday in the ER with a mask It wasn't easy
I had the classic reply light blue mask
The surgical mask is probably one of the easiest to wear. What was the issue?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 10:44:47 AM
I think anyone being intellectually honest will agree that wearing a mask is a small tradoff (and not an imposition).
As a rule, I am always speaking for myself. In no way did I imply that I am speaking on behalf of the DDFC or any community for that matter.
How can "anyone being intellectually honest" be speaking only for yourself?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 10:45:01 AM
Did I? In any event, the Israeli ministry of health (supposedly relying on the CDC and/or WHO) claim that it is unknown if antibodies provide any immunity.

See: https://www.health.gov.il/Subjects/disease/corona/Documents/bz-259782620.pdf

Then you can let the Israeli Ministry of Health know that you have a person of unknown infectious status who has yet to infect people with antibodies if thatís what you mean by the all clear.

Your inviting Floridians to stay at your house belies your entire underlying attitude about how herd immunity is what will keep the community safe. Whatís your excuse for allowing people from a highly infectious place to stay in the community? Are you positive they donít have COVID? Herd immunity will not protect at least *some* people from contracting COVID if you introduce a new infectious case.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
How can "anyone being intellectually honest" be speaking for yourself?
Is that really fair?
How can "anyone being intellectually honest" speaking for others?  ;)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 10:50:15 AM
How can "anyone being intellectually honest" be speaking for yourself?
Because youíre not being intellectually honest, obviously. If you had to wear a mask because youíd die otherwise youíd get used to it real fast like glasses, seatbelts, life jackets, or any other ďimpositionĒ. Within a week youíd forget it existed and it would be second nature. You *never* gave it that chance because from day one youíve been in denial about the efficacy of communal mask wearing. (Unless you have underlying respiratory issues, which you said you donít have).

Mask wearing is literally a tiny step to take that would greatly improve safety overall but as Iíve pointed out there seem to be religious objections to it. Itís what made me realize this was never about government overreach or ďlockdown issuesĒ, but always about selfishness and personal comfort. Mask wearing will be uncomfortable for anyone in the beginning. But for some reason doctors, nurses, food industry workers etc. who are required to wear masks all day figure it out and live with it.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 02, 2020, 10:56:47 AM
Because youíre not being intellectually honest, obviously. If you had to wear a mask because youíd die otherwise youíd get used to it real fast like glasses, seatbelts, life jackets, or any other ďimpositionĒ. Within a week youíd forget it existed and it would be second nature. You *never* gave it that chance because from day one youíve been in denial about the efficacy of communal mask wearing. (Unless you have underlying respiratory issues, which you said you donít have).

Mask wearing is literally a tiny step to take that would greatly improve safety overall but as Iíve pointed out there seem to be religious objections to it. Itís what made me realize this was never about government overreach or ďlockdown issuesĒ, but always about selfishness and personal comfort. Mask wearing will be uncomfortable for anyone in the beginning. But for some reason doctors, nurses, food industry workers etc. who are required to wear masks all day figure it out and live with it.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

(I don't usually engage in illicit 3BM activity, but this post must be read by everyone. It can save lives. It should go on billboards around our community.)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 10:59:11 AM
(I don't usually engage in illicit 3BM activity,
3, did you mean 6?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 11:00:10 AM
Because youíre not being intellectually honest, obviously. If you had to wear a mask, because youíd die otherwise, youíd get used to it real fast like glasses or any other ďimpositionĒ. Within a week youíd forget it existed and it would be second nature. You *never* gave it that chance because from day one youíve been in denial about the efficacy of communal mask wearing. (Unless you have underlying respiratory issues, which you said you donít have).

Mask wearing is literally a tiny step to take that would greatly improve safety overall but as Iíve pointed out there seem to be religious objections to it. Itís what made me realize this was never about government overreach or ďlockdown issuesĒ, but always about selfishness and personal comfort. Mask wearing will be uncomfortable for anyone in the beginning. But for some reason doctors, nurses, food industry workers etc, that are required to wear masks all day figure it out and live with it.
You're not following the conversation, he said "anyone who's being intelectually honest..." to which I said speak for yourself. His response was "I'm speaking for myself".

As far as your claim that it's a tiny step, I can scream until I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to care (and then claim you're the only one being intellectually honest) so I won't continue. I've heard the same from many other people. I sure am happy I don't work in a field that requires all day mask wearing, because I'm not sure what I would do.

I see you believe government overreach is impossible, because any time there is government overreach people are only upset because they're selfish.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 02, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
You're not following the conversation, he said "anyone who's being intelectually honest..." to which I said speak for yourself. His response was "I'm speaking for myself".

As far as your claim that it's a tiny step, I can scream until I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to care (and then claim you're the only one being intellectually honest) so I won't continue. I've heard the same from many other people. I sure am happy I don't work in a field that requires all day mask wearing, because I'm not sure what I would do.

I see you believe government overreach is impossible, because any time there is government overreach people are only upset because they're selfish.
You would wear a mask.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 02, 2020, 11:06:26 AM
You would wear a mask.
Or wear it on his chin like the rest of the food industry
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 11:09:48 AM
You would wear a mask.
Or wear it on his chin like the rest of the food industry
Or find a new career, or come up with some other solution.

Every time we have these discussions where people say "wear a mask, it's not a big deal" it makes me think there isn't actually any science to back it up (as I've heard there are many infectious disease doctors who believe they don't help), it just makes people feel good because they feel they're "doing something".
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on July 02, 2020, 11:12:40 AM
Hereís an easy way to outsource the question to a knowledgeable third party whether people wearing masks amid a potential COVID outbreak is akin to not driving anywhere, ever or if it is like reasonable restrictions (nobody under 21 drive in the country, no speeding or driving drunk, seatbelts, etc.)

I think anyone being intellectually honest will agree that wearing a mask is a small tradoff (and not an imposition).
FTT
To clarify the above, I was responding in this context.
I believe government has the right to mandate (for example by EO) for people to wear masks. As from a constitutional perspective, I don't consider it to be an imposition, similar to seatbelts etc. not so in the case of total lockdowns where it is a great imposition, and restricts our basic freedoms (possibly Article 4) and therefore the onus would be on government to prove a major necessity in doing so.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
Then you can let the Israeli Ministry of Health know that you have a person of unknown infectious status who has yet to infect people with antibodies if thatís what you mean by the all clear.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.

Your inviting Floridians to stay at your house belies your entire underlying attitude about how herd immunity is what will keep the community safe. Whatís your excuse for allowing people from a highly infectious place to stay in the community? Are you positive they donít have COVID? Herd immunity will not protect at least *some* people from contracting COVID if you introduce a new infectious case.

You are making way too many assumptions recently. I honestly think that COVID-19 is having a bad effect on you. Maybe a vacation might help.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 11:31:45 AM
The surgical mask is probably one of the easiest to wear. What was the issue?
Other than one old one I had at home (obtained last year for bad allergy days for my son) that actually fit without feeling that my ears are about to be cut off, and seems semi-breathable, all the newer ones (mostly of Chinese origin) are too small/tight and not very breathable.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 11:35:33 AM
Or find a new career, or come up with some other solution.

Every time we have these discussions where people say "wear a mask, it's not a big deal" it makes me think there isn't actually any science to back it up (as I've heard there are many infectious disease doctors who believe they don't help), it just makes people feel good because they feel they're "doing something".

Not sure if there's any science about it being "not a big deal" but I think it's pretty obvious that it could protect others, and possibly the wearer too. That being said, I'm not sure how much of an additional benefit they provide once social distancing is kept.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on July 02, 2020, 11:41:55 AM
Did I? In any event, the Israeli ministry of health (supposedly relying on the CDC and/or WHO) claim that it is unknown if antibodies provide any immunity.

See: https://www.health.gov.il/Subjects/disease/corona/Documents/bz-259782620.pdf
Then you can let the Israeli Ministry of Health know that you have a person with antibodies ,of unknown infectious status, who has yet to infect people.if thatís what you mean by the all clear.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.
@S209  FTFY?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 02, 2020, 11:45:05 AM
once social distancing is kept.
a big assumption in our communities...

I've been called "the only guy in ch still wearing one" (or heckled, as discussed) for wearing in crowded indoor settings

Have you seen 770 lately? A wedding? A grocery store?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 11:55:48 AM
a big assumption in our communities...

I've been called "the only guy in ch still wearing one" (or heckled, as discussed) for wearing in crowded indoor settings

Have you seen 770 lately? A wedding? A grocery store?

Are you joking? With my profile picture is it even a question whether I have been to 770 lately?

Not sure if you're trying to refute the claim that it is debatable as to how much additional protection is offered by a mask when social distancing is adhered to.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 12:09:46 PM
I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.

You are making way too many assumptions recently. I honestly think that COVID-19 is having a bad effect on you. Maybe a vacation might help.
You wanted to sound the all clear based on your experience. I am saying you should go ahead and let that lone Israeli minister in on the memo that your antibodies protected you (from a person of unknown infectivity).

What assumptions did I make? I *asked* but did not *assume* whether you are confident the guests do not have COVID. If youíre sure, than clearly you have no proof of antibodies offering protection (which you inferred). If youíre not sure, then it was dangerous and wrong to host people from a virus hotspot and potentially introduce new infectious people into CH (against the clear advice of the *local* medical establishment).
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 02, 2020, 12:10:22 PM
 My point is that
when social distancing is adhered to.
is an irrelevant hypothetical.

Let's talk about the benefits they bring in the real world situations we live in.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
You're not following the conversation, he said "anyone who's being intelectually honest..." to which I said speak for yourself. His response was "I'm speaking for myself".

As far as your claim that it's a tiny step, I can scream until I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to care (and then claim you're the only one being intellectually honest) so I won't continue. I've heard the same from many other people. I sure am happy I don't work in a field that requires all day mask wearing, because I'm not sure what I would do.

I see you believe government overreach is impossible, because any time there is government overreach people are only upset because they're selfish.
Iím not denying you think masks are an imposition, Iím saying you didnít try hard enough. I donít believe youíre being intellectually honest. For some reason people who have been more serious about COVID have had no issues with masks (once they got used to it) but people who have been in denial all along canít breathe. See the pattern?

Do you honestly think that all doctors and nurses prepared to go into that field by making sure theyíre ok with wearing masks? Or do you think doctors and nurses have changed careers because they have to wear masks now? Come now, thatís the definition of intellectually dishonest. Ask a doctor just how hard they find it once theyíre used to it.

Everyone who works in a hospital wears a mask all day. Theyíre all doing just fine and donít need to take it off every few minutes to breathe. Donít forget many of them are wearing far more restrictive masks than you are.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 12:17:43 PM
Iím not denying you think masks are an imposition, Iím saying you didnít try hard enough. I donít believe youíre being intellectually honest. For some reason people who have been more serious about COVID have had no issues with masks (once they got used to it) but people who have been in denial all along canít breathe. See the pattern?

Do you honestly think that all doctors and nurses prepared to go into that field by making sure theyíre ok with wearing masks? Or do you think doctors and nurses have changed careers because they have to wear masks now? Come now, thatís the definition of intellectually dishonest. Ask a doctor just how hard they find it once theyíre used to it.

Everyone who works in a hospital wears a mask all day. Theyíre all doing just fine and donít need to take it off every few minutes to breathe. Donít forget many of them are wearing far more restrictive masks than you are.
You're not following the conversation, he said "anyone who's being intelectually honest..." to which I said speak for yourself. His response was "I'm speaking for myself".

As far as your claim that it's a tiny step, I can scream until I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to care (and then claim you're the only one being intellectually honest) so I won't continue. I've heard the same from many other people. I sure am happy I don't work in a field that requires all day mask wearing, because I'm not sure what I would do.

I see you believe government overreach is impossible, because any time there is government overreach people are only upset because they're selfish.
I can't argue with denial of reality.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 12:18:38 PM
I can't argue with denial of reality.
Thank you, that would have been a more concise way for me to put it.

As I said, I do believe you think that way.

ETA: Where did you see I donít believe overreach *could* happen? Iím saying you lose neíemanus when youíre consistent with your approach even to a point where overreach *isnít* an issue. I personally *do* believe there has been overreach here. But I donít think that was your big problem. It was a rationalization.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 02, 2020, 12:24:07 PM
Are you joking? With my profile picture is it even a question whether I have been to 770 lately?

Not sure if you're trying to refute the claim that it is debatable as to how much additional protection is offered by a mask when social distancing is adhered to.

So here's my question for you:

The latest update from The Gedalia Society (https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/06/covid-19-update-34.html?m=1 (https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/06/covid-19-update-34.html?m=1)) discussed the recent positive Covid tests in CH from people who were previously infected months before. They give 3 possible explanations for the positive results: a) old, dead virus causing false positives; b) new infection caught from someone else; and c) these are flare ups of the first infection, which never left, just stayed dormant. The assumption of viral shed for both 'b' and 'c' follows the assumptions of any Covid positive, in that you are considered contagious if you're symptomatic, and should be careful for a period after symptoms leave just to be sure.


Given that reinfections are happening in CH, and visitors are coming from all over the world still, and social distancing is not happening anywhere in CH, and your position on the value of masks, how do you justify anyone not wearing a mask in CH?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cholent on July 02, 2020, 01:11:00 PM
The surgical mask is probably one of the easiest to wear. What was the issue?
I wore one for just 1.5 hours and was left with a smashing headache
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 01:14:02 PM
I can't argue with denial of reality.
Comes from the guy who says masks don't work. You can't make this stuff up.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 01:14:50 PM
I wore one for just 1.5 hours and was left with a smashing headache
Do others work better or you just can't wear one?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cholent on July 02, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Do others work better or you just can't wear one?
I have the same issue with all. And I work in healthcare so it's an issue. At this point I just stay out of patient care areas as much as possible and guard my chin.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 02:26:06 PM
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
I'm going against the crowd here and sticking up for @avromie7 .  He doesn't have to wear a mask.  Yes, 100% of people should wear a mask, but if we got to 97% we'd be good with that. Avromie7 can be in the 3%.

There are various conditions that make mask-wearing almost impossible, such as COPD, asthma, PTSD, severe anxiety, certain allergies, claustrophobia, autism and cerebral palsy, among others.  We don't have to know what particular issue avromie7 has, but he's made it clear that he's an outlier, and that wearing a mask causes him more suffering than the majority of other people.

Here's some advice for those with problems wearing a mask, which includes staying home as much as possible, experimenting at home with wearing a mask to get used to it, trying different mask types, minimize time spent outdoors:

https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/managing-symptoms/difficulty-breathing-face-mask-asthma-lung-disease/

And avromie7, if your Rov said you could eat on Yom Kippur because of some medical condition, would you proclaim it from the bima throughout the day?  I didn't think so.  So you personally can't wear a mask, okay, we get it, you'll deal with it.  But it's not necessarily relevant to what's best for the rest of society.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 02:53:18 PM
I'm going against the crowd here and sticking up for @avromie7 .  He doesn't have to wear a mask.  Yes, 100% of people should wear a mask, but if we got to 97% we'd be good with that. Avromie7 can be in the 3%.

There are various conditions that make mask-wearing almost impossible, such as COPD, asthma, PTSD, severe anxiety, certain allergies, claustrophobia, autism and cerebral palsy, among others.  We don't have to know what particular issue avromie7 has, but he's made it clear that he's an outlier, and that wearing a mask causes him more suffering than the majority of other people.

Here's some advice for those with problems wearing a mask, which includes staying home as much as possible, experimenting at home with wearing a mask to get used to it, trying different mask types, minimize time spent outdoors:

https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/managing-symptoms/difficulty-breathing-face-mask-asthma-lung-disease/

And avromie7, if your Rov said you could eat on Yom Kippur because of some medical condition, would you proclaim it from the bima throughout the day?  I didn't think so.  So you personally can't wear a mask, okay, we get it, you'll deal with it.  But it's not necessarily relevant to what's best for the rest of society.
At first my issue was with people saying "it's not a big deal", even now I wear a mask when necessary. After reading this thread I've come to the realization that masks are little more than a way to make people feel like they're "doing something".

As far as why I find it uncomfortable, I don't have any respiratory condition but this quote from the article you posted sounds right:
Quote
The physical barrier of the mask makes it harder to take in air; it also traps some carbon dioxide as you exhale, which means you end up breathing in air that is warmer and moister.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 02, 2020, 03:00:43 PM
At first my issue was with people saying "it's not a big deal", even now I wear a mask when necessary. After reading this thread I've come to the realization that masks are little more than a way to make people feel like they're "doing something".
If you came to that realization by reading this thread, then you should read something else!  Try this:

https://www.masktoprotect.org/

Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 02, 2020, 05:44:37 PM
At first my issue was with people saying "it's not a big deal", even now I wear a mask when necessary. After reading this thread I've come to the realization that masks are little more than a way to make people feel like they're "doing something".

As far as why I find it uncomfortable, I don't have any respiratory condition but this quote from the article you posted sounds right:

Have you tried anything other than masks? Bandana, scarf, cloth, etc. You might find it easier, though I haven't tried. Some N95 are really easy to breathe in (and some are quite difficult). You can also use this - it makes breathing really easy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087TD169N
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 05:57:52 PM
So you personally can't wear a mask, okay, we get it, you'll deal with it.  But it's not necessarily relevant to what's best for the rest of society.
...and we have a winner!  :)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 02, 2020, 06:45:30 PM
Have you tried anything other than masks? Bandana, scarf, cloth, etc. You might find it easier, though I haven't tried. Some N95 are really easy to breathe in (and some are quite difficult). You can also use this - it makes breathing really easy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087TD169N
I actually just tried my Trump mask today (I wore it backwards because I felt a little uncomfortable) and it was definitely a lot better than the surgical mask. It was only for a short shopping trip and it wasn't too hot inside, I'll have to see how it works for longer periods and when the store is hot.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 07:17:54 PM
You wanted to sound the all clear based on your experience. I am saying you should go ahead and let that lone Israeli minister in on the memo that your antibodies protected you (from a person of unknown infectivity).

Everything in context. I responded to your post saying that:
Just about everyone agrees at this point that antibodies work (for some time).
Showing you an example of those those that disagree.


What assumptions did I make? I *asked* but did not *assume* whether you are confident the guests do not have COVID. If youíre sure, than clearly you have no proof of antibodies offering protection (which you inferred). If youíre not sure, then it was dangerous and wrong to host people from a virus hotspot and potentially introduce new infectious people into CH (against the clear advice of the *local* medical establishment).

I really think you can use a vacation. You supposedly ask a question, and don't even wait a NY minute for a response (not that one was really that essential, all you had to do is go back and read your quotes and try to find which verbs you attribute to others without basis).

While you might not know me personally, I think I've posted quite a bit on DDF, so you might have figured out that guests are rarely invited to my home. As a matter of fact this past Pesach was a rather unique time (with the Yeshiva closed) where we actually invited some guests. Otherwise our house operates on a כל דכפין ייתי ויכול without any requirement for those that wish to enter our doors to be hungry.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 07:28:33 PM
So here's my question for you:

...
Given that reinfections are happening in CH, and visitors are coming from all over the world still, and social distancing is not happening anywhere in CH, and your position on the value of masks, how do you justify anyone not wearing a mask in CH?

My point is that is an irrelevant hypothetical.

Is it up to me to justify anyone? I speak only for myself. And actually seeing the most recent (no. 35) Gedalia Society update, as well as updates from Lakewood, have me pondering whether I should seek out someone with COVID-19 so I can get reinfected and have a positive PCR test.

Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 07:31:35 PM
So they weren't fearful, just uncomfortable enough that they didn't allow their own community to share in their simcha?

The Chuppah was broadcast on Zoom, so the Floridians wore masks. Once Zoom was over, so were the masks.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 07:39:48 PM
Have you tried anything other than masks? Bandana, scarf, cloth, etc. You might find it easier, though I haven't tried. Some N95 are really easy to breathe in (and some are quite difficult). You can also use this - it makes breathing really easy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087TD169N

Face shield - No!
Bandana - yes!

Mask not covering nose - terrible!
Mask not covering lower lip. - no comment!

Even chin masks are mostly acceptable.
 ::)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 02, 2020, 07:56:23 PM
Face shield - No!
Bandana - yes!

Mask not covering nose - terrible!
Mask not covering lower lip. - no comment!

Even chin masks are mostly acceptable.
 ::)

I would agree that a face shield is absolutely better than nothing. But I also believe that if weíre comparing effectiveness, both common sense, and studies show that fabric is very effective at blocking outbound droplet spread. I donít have the same confidence in face shields as the possibility exists for the small droplets to escape and float around, I also havenít seen any studies proving otherwise.

Mask not covering nose - extremely overrated. The person isnít protecting themselves but it should be fine for preventing droplet spread aside from sneezing, CMIIW.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2020, 08:00:31 PM
Mask not covering nose - extremely overrated. The person isnít protecting themselves but it should be fine for preventing droplet spread aside from sneezing, CMIIW.

I fully agree. I would add that a militant attitude against those that choose not to wear a mask except when requested, is also an over reaction.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 08:05:23 PM
Mask not covering nose - extremely overrated. The person isnít protecting themselves but it should be fine for preventing droplet spread aside from sneezing, CMIIW.
Breathing out your nose will spread droplets.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 02, 2020, 09:34:12 PM
Breathing out your nose will spread droplets.

Does it really? I could believe it I just havenít seen it mentioned.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 02, 2020, 09:38:08 PM
Everything in context. I responded to your post saying that:Showing you an example of those those that disagree.


I really think you can use a vacation. You supposedly ask a question, and don't even wait a NY minute for a response (not that one was really that essential, all you had to do is go back and read your quotes and try to find which verbs you attribute to others without basis).

While you might not know me personally, I think I've posted quite a bit on DDF, so you might have figured out that guests are rarely invited to my home. As a matter of fact this past Pesach was a rather unique time (with the Yeshiva closed) where we actually invited some guests. Otherwise our house operates on a כל דכפין ייתי ויכול without any requirement for those that wish to enter our doors to be hungry.
Did you miss the part where I was responding to this post of yours?
I have a bunch of Floridians hanging around in my house. At what point can we sound the all-clear knowing that our antibodies work?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 09:42:43 PM
Does it really? I could believe it I just havenít seen it mentioned.
Will look into it.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yungermanchik on July 02, 2020, 09:48:07 PM
Breathing out your nose will spread droplets.
True, but unless you're one of those 'nose up in the air' type it will mostly be in the downward direction, and will not need a full 6 feet to be grounded. probably closer to a normal conversation distance of 2-3 feet.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2020, 09:55:57 PM
True, but unless you're one of those 'nose up in the air' type it will mostly be in the downward direction, and will not need a full 6 feet to be grounded. probably closer to a normal conversation distance of 2-3 feet.
All joking aside the question is does normal breathing expel droplets.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 02, 2020, 10:00:32 PM
True, but unless you're one of those 'nose up in the air' type it will mostly be in the downward direction, and will not need a full 6 feet to be grounded. probably closer to a normal conversation distance of 2-3 feet.
unless they're fine enough to go airborne, in a contained space
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 03, 2020, 08:57:48 AM
I wore one for just 1.5 hours and was left with a smashing headache
Hereís a study on healthcare workers and PPE.
https://headachejournal.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/head.13811
ďIn real world practice, donning of the PPE is often felt cumbersome and uncomfortable by the frontline healthcare workers, especially if a long period of exposure to such equipment is necessary
during the outbreaks of emerging infectious diseasesĒ

Out of 158 respondents, 128 (81.0%) respondents developed de novo PPE-associated headaches though it was theorized it was mostly to to the straps etc. not necessarily the breathing.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on July 05, 2020, 03:52:01 PM
Just an interesting observation. Seems to be some sort of cold/ virus going around Lakewood. I know of at least 2 or 3 families where just about the whole family came down with colds, sore throats, congestion etc. over the last few days.
Doesnít seems to be particularly covid type symptoms and the kids are getting it just like the adults so Iím guessing itís just the kids going back to school and daycare and spreading run of the mill colds and viruses again, something we havenít seen in a few months. Sure is going to drive the camps crazy when they open this Monday though.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 05, 2020, 03:56:43 PM
Just an interesting observation. Seems to be some sort of cold/ virus going around Lakewood. I know of at least 2 or 3 families where just about the whole family came down with colds, sore throats, congestion etc. over the last few days.
Doesnít seems to be particularly covid type symptoms and the kids are getting it just like the adults so Iím guessing itís just the kids going back to school and daycare and spreading run of the mill colds and viruses again, something we havenít seen in a few months. Sure is going to drive the camps crazy when they open this Monday though.
My son was in daycamp for all of 4 days and brought this cold home (to the rest of the family). Regular rhinovirus symptoms. Pediatricians are back in business....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 05, 2020, 03:58:28 PM
We went out for shabbos for the first time in 5 months. Coincided with the first cold my kids got in that same time span.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 05, 2020, 04:00:38 PM
We went out for shabbos for the first time in 5 months. Coincided with the first cold my kids got in that same time span.
The lack of colds in the home have definitely been a silver lining.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on July 05, 2020, 04:01:31 PM
Looks like itís widespread. My niece is miserable with congestion and sore throat and is starting as a JC tomorrow. Sheís nervous about bringing corona into the camp but it doesnít sound like anything other that a common cold or virus to me.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 05, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Just an interesting observation. Seems to be some sort of cold/ virus going around Lakewood. I know of at least 2 or 3 families where just about the whole family came down with colds, sore throats, congestion etc. over the last few days.
Doesnít seems to be particularly covid type symptoms and the kids are getting it just like the adults so Iím guessing itís just the kids going back to school and daycare and spreading run of the mill colds and viruses again, something we havenít seen in a few months. Sure is going to drive the camps crazy when they open this Monday though.
Dr. Shanik says heís seen an explosion in regular infections like strep recently. He is partially attributing it to people whoíve not been exposed to any healthy or harmful viruses or bacteria at all for a while (thus decreasing the strength of their immune systems) suddenly being super exposed to many infections at once.

Personally Iíve been nursing a fairly high grade fever (104 for a little bit, down to 101-102 with lots of Tylenol) for a few days.  Negative on a rapid for COVID Friday but Iím going to try and get tested again today. Yes, Iíve been seen by a doctor @avromie7 :)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 05, 2020, 04:19:13 PM
Looks like itís widespread. My niece is miserable with congestion and sore throat and is starting as a JC tomorrow. Sheís nervous about bringing corona into the camp but it doesnít sound like anything other that a common cold or virus to me.
Please. Speak to her and ask her to stay home until sheís checked out. Itís not worth it. Even if itís not COVID!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 05, 2020, 04:30:20 PM
Dr. Shanik says heís seen an explosion in regular infections like strep recently. He is partially attributing it to people whoíve not been exposed to any healthy or harmful viruses or bacteria at all for a while (thus decreasing the strength of their immune systems) suddenly being super exposed to many infections at once.

Unintended consequences. Compromising the immune systems of millions by imposing lockdowns.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on July 05, 2020, 04:30:35 PM
The common cold seems to be on a rampage.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 05, 2020, 04:39:23 PM
Dr. Shanik says heís seen an explosion in regular infections like strep recently. He is partially attributing it to people whoíve not been exposed to any healthy or harmful viruses or bacteria at all for a while (thus decreasing the strength of their immune systems) suddenly being super exposed to many infections at once.

Personally Iíve been nursing a fairly high grade fever (104 for a little bit, down to 101-102 with lots of Tylenol) for a few days.  Negative on a rapid for COVID Friday but Iím going to try and get tested again today. Yes, Iíve been seen by a doctor @avromie7 :)
R"S!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 05, 2020, 04:42:58 PM
Dr. Shanik says heís seen an explosion in regular infections like strep recently. He is partially attributing it to people whoíve not been exposed to any healthy or harmful viruses or bacteria at all for a while (thus decreasing the strength of their immune systems) suddenly being super exposed to many infections at once.

Personally Iíve been nursing a fairly high grade fever (104 for a little bit, down to 101-102 with lots of Tylenol) for a few days.  Negative on a rapid for COVID Friday but Iím going to try and get tested again today. Yes, Iíve been seen by a doctor @avromie7 :)
Try non-rapid? R"S!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yzj on July 05, 2020, 04:50:45 PM
Yep I know families having cold and a few having  stomach symptoms as well. Chemed immediate care was jam packed the other day.Havenít heard of any fever until s209. Im sure there are quite a few people who are worrying that maybe they are getting covid a second time around since the symptoms are so wide ranging.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Moshe123 on July 05, 2020, 05:04:33 PM
A Dr. in Monsey told me yesterday that there have been some recent covid cases locally. The ones in KJ imported it from Florida and the ones in Monsey didn't travel anywhere. None of the cases were serious.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 05, 2020, 05:06:59 PM
BTW Lakewood seems to have revised the 5 positives since Friday down to 3. New deaths zero.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: JunkYardUnz on July 05, 2020, 05:33:12 PM
Looks like itís widespread. My niece is miserable with congestion and sore throat and is starting as a JC tomorrow. Sheís nervous about bringing corona into the camp but it doesnít sound like anything other that a common cold or virus to me.
The last thing she wants it to be ďthat girlĒ who had the whole camp shut down for a week (at best).
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cholent on July 05, 2020, 06:03:52 PM
Just an interesting observation. Seems to be some sort of cold/ virus going around Lakewood. I know of at least 2 or 3 families where just about the whole family came down with colds, sore throats, congestion etc. over the last few days.
Doesnít seems to be particularly covid type symptoms and the kids are getting it just like the adults so Iím guessing itís just the kids going back to school and daycare and spreading run of the mill colds and viruses again, something we havenít seen in a few months. Sure is going to drive the camps crazy when they open this Monday though.
Several of my children had that this week, all tested negative for covid BH
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 06, 2020, 04:00:38 PM
4 positives today in Lakewood. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 04:03:42 PM
4 positives today in Lakewood.

In or out of the community?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 06, 2020, 05:53:31 PM
In or out of the community?
OCHD numbers
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 05:57:44 PM
OCHD numbers

I understand. However, when you were posting numbers before, it was determined that the cases were from outside the community. If these are from in the community, then I wouldn't say
Nothing out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: boro boy on July 06, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
Coronavirus still exists ??
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 06:34:23 PM
Coronavirus still exists ??

No, it was cancelled. It's kinda like BlackBerry. It doesn't really exist, but there's something that kinda resembles it on the outside and makes it pass a BlackBerry test. But the guts are completely different, just like the version of Covid doesn't kill anyone and only gets young people a little sick.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 06, 2020, 06:35:25 PM
Coronavirus still exists ??
Wow Florida is going bad!
Hashem should help everyone
::)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 06:47:48 PM
::)

I believe he thought the /s was obvious.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: boro boy on July 06, 2020, 07:01:56 PM
::)

nice collection
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Essen est zich on July 06, 2020, 08:16:54 PM
New update from the gedalia society.
One new case brought to Ch from out of town...


https://collive.com/coronavirus-update-36-confirmed-new-covid-case-in-crown-heights/
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 06, 2020, 08:27:52 PM
I believe he thought the /s was obvious.
Wasnít sure, and still not.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 08:28:05 PM
New update from the gedalia society.
One new case brought to Ch from out of town...


https://collive.com/coronavirus-update-36-confirmed-new-covid-case-in-crown-heights/

Here's the c/p, because it's important:

Quote
Covid19 Updates for the Crown Heights Community
In loving and everlasting memory of R' Gedaliah Shaffer obm

Monday, July 6, 2020
COVID-19 Update #36
To our dear fellow members of Anash in Crown Heights,

Unfortunately, we have a confirmed new case of COVID here in our community.  It involves someone who went to one of the hotspot states and returned, and shortly after developed symptoms and tested positive. This individual is young and doing well, and has been cautioned to isolate.

On the one hand, it is reassuring that it is not a case of ďcommunity spreadĒ, as it was picked up elsewhere. On the other hand, this is how community spread can begin, especially in a framework of questionably waning immunity, and this highlights the critically important message related to travel that we have been addressing these past few updates.

Bringing in the virus from other communities, at a time when we suspect reinfection may be possible, is a worrisome combination. Purim-time we had no idea of what was happening, and what was to come. Now we stand in a position where in a COVID world of many unknowns, we do need to apply common sense and be aware, in a way that is unique, that we are all faced with the awesome responsibility of taking care of each other.

We know that travel has from the outset and to this day resulted in significantly increased rates of infection. Ignoring social distancing and not wearing masks when in close contact with others all INCREASE the risk of contracting and hence sharing the virus. Quarantine restrictions are in place, not because they are popular, but as a way of protecting the vulnerable; those that choose to expose themselves have to bear responsibility and follow the rules put in place. This is obviously for the safety of the whole community.

We wish to never forget the lessons that we learned over the past 4 months.  ďVehachai yitain el liboĒ. We are one family, recovering. Never again can we go through such loss. In the same way that we took care of each other in times of great need, now as things get easier, we need to continue to think of our neighbor first.

Therefore:
Take care with social distancing, and mask use when in close contact (particularly indoors).
If you don't feel well get tested immediately, and isolate until your status is cleared by a physician.
If you are tested positive, then you must isolate, and all those who were in close contact with you must quarantine.
Travel less and only when absolutely necessary.
If arriving from one of the hotspot states, you must strictly quarantine for 14 days, even with a negative test.


To clarify some terms:
Quarantine relates to one who is not sick or testing positive, but who has been exposed to one who is; quarantine lasts for 14 days from exposure, even if one tests negative during those 14 days.
Isolation relates to one who is sick with COVID or tests positive, and it lasts 10 days after onset of illness AND at least 3 days of feeling well. (In the event one tests positive but has no symptoms, isolation lasts either 10 days from positive test OR after 2 negative tests separated by 24 hours.)
Both quarantine and isolation require the individual to stay home and separate from all others who may be susceptible.
Please take isolation/quarantine very seriously. Someoneís life may depend on it!


If you have any new COVID symptoms, please fill out this survey:
New COVID Symptoms
For any COVID related questions, please email chcovid@gmail.com.



We remain optimistic that what we are seeing is sporadic in nature only and no cause for general alarm, nevertheless for obvious reasons we wish everyone to pay attention to all of the above.

Looking forward to a healthy and happy summer for all.

Wishing everyone continued good health,
The Gedaliah Society, in conjunction with Dr. Rosen
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 06, 2020, 08:29:49 PM
Here's the c/p, because it's important:
Game over, we need to lock up asap, this is not a drill.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 08:30:58 PM
Game over, we need to lock up asap, this is not a drill.

Your reading comprehension needs some work.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 06, 2020, 08:32:06 PM
Your reading comprehension needs some work.
? You said its important so I was following up with the next step which is to lock up immediately, we can't afford a second wave.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 06, 2020, 08:33:46 PM
Game over, we need to lock up asap, this is not a drill.
Yes, thatís exactly what it said. Thank you for your concise interpretation.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 08:35:14 PM
? You said its important so I was following up with the next step which is to lock up immediately, we can't afford a second wave.

Find me anyone who says lock up is the next step. Go away, troll.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 06, 2020, 08:37:54 PM
Find me anyone who says lock up is the next step. Go away, troll.
? You said its important that one person tested positive, stop fear mongering. Troll
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 06, 2020, 08:39:43 PM
? You said its important that one person tested positive, stop fear mongering. Troll
Your reading comprehension needs some work.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 06, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
Find me anyone who says lock up is the next step. Go away, troll.
@yaakov35 does not work with gray areas. Everything is binary. Either weíre in lockdown or corona is over. There can be nothing else.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 09:11:58 PM
@yaakov35 does not work with gray areas. Everything is binary. Either weíre in lockdown or corona is over. There can be nothing else.

@yaakov35 is most likely being cynical due to over dramatization and over reaction he sees around him.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 06, 2020, 09:49:05 PM
@yaakov35 is most likely being cynical due to over dramatization and over reaction he sees around him.
I donít know, I feel like Iíve seen a consistent lack of nuance
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
I donít know, I feel like Iíve seen a consistent lack of nuance

Maybe your glasses have gotten fogged up due to excessive mask usage.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 06, 2020, 09:51:49 PM
Maybe your glasses have gotten fogged up due to excessive mask usage.
I wear contact lenses  :P
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 06, 2020, 10:24:51 PM
Here's the c/p, because it's important:

word is
"bochurim that had it on the 1st round"

@ExGingi myopia notwithstanding, there would be logic in seeing more than a mask or 2 in CH...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 06, 2020, 10:37:50 PM
Maybe your glasses have gotten fogged up due to excessive mask usage.
Precisely. He needs to buy the n95 with the valve.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 06, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
@yaakov35 is most likely being cynical due to over dramatization and over reaction he sees around him.
Very much so. Nobody thinks corona is eradicated from ny/nj... the impression is that it no longer poses a constant threat. That doesn't mean there won't be cases here and there. Simply the magaifa aspect and everyone walking around with it is over.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 10:41:16 PM
word is
"bochurim that had it on the 1st round"

@ExGingi myopia notwithstanding, there would be logic in seeing more than a mask or 2 in CH...

I guess you avoided 770 on Shabbos. I would say that about 1% of people wore masks.

I have a friend who initially panicked about being forced to wear a mask, as per the notice put out by the Gaboim/Kratz, but when I explained to him that those notices can only be used to wipe one's hands, not other places, as they can cause rectal bleeding, his panic subsided. Not a word printed on those notices was meant seriously even for a split second by those who published them.

Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 10:42:19 PM
Precisely. He needs to buy the n95 with the valve.

I thought those are legally available only to Healthcare workers.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 06, 2020, 10:46:02 PM
I thought those are legally available only to Healthcare workers.
...and USPS workers.  ;)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 06, 2020, 10:47:28 PM
...and USPS workers.  ;)

How about USPS retirees?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: CountValentine on July 06, 2020, 10:54:01 PM
How about USPS retirees?
If they still have their contacts.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on July 06, 2020, 11:07:46 PM
If they still have their contacts.
Then their masks won't fog up anyways
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 06, 2020, 11:51:41 PM
Maybe your glasses have gotten fogged up due to excessive mask usage.
I wear contact lenses  :P
Round 2.  Does this deserve a hamster wheel?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 06, 2020, 11:53:53 PM
I guess you avoided 770 on Shabbos.
do you wonder why?
unlike you, I wasn't hit in round 1, and -also unlike you- I have no interest in getting hit in round 2.
with out-of-towners (from hotspots) outnumbering masks 10-1 i figured I didn't belong. (even if this week I finally wouldn't get heckled for my mask, as I might have the excuse of taking the notices at face value)
Quote
I would say that about 1% of people wore masks.
wow, that's a real uptick
Quote

I have a friend who initially panicked about being forced to wear a mask, as per the notice put out by the Gaboim/Kratz, but when I explained to him that those notices can only be used to wipe one's hands, not other places, as they can cause rectal bleeding, his panic subsided. Not a word printed on those notices was meant seriously even for a split second by those who published them.
that's a very respectful way for you to describe a psak from our beloved local rabbonim. I'm having flashbacks to the late nun's, the way some lefty neighbors used to talk...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 07, 2020, 12:30:37 AM
that's a very respectful way for you to describe a psak from our beloved local rabbonim. I'm having flashbacks to the late nun's, the way some lefty neighbors used to talk...
Did I describe a psak of Rabbonim? All I described was a pretty accurate portrayal of the attitude of an uncle of one of the Rabbonim.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 07, 2020, 12:54:13 AM
So the discussion of which body part to wipe was a quote from the gabbai with one hand to wipe? You sure presented it as your own...

On substance: why is the rabbonims letter from last week not relevant?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 08, 2020, 02:18:07 PM
Hearing concern from Lakewood doctors about cases creeping up and being brought in from FL and meshulachim who spread it around town.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 02:29:54 PM
Hearing concern from Lakewood doctors about cases creeping up and being brought in from FL and meshulachim who spread it around town.
I wish they'd start an online presence ala https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 03:01:55 PM
Hearing concern from Lakewood doctors about cases creeping up and being brought in from FL and meshulachim who spread it around town.
And meshulachim will not
1) get tested/checked and won't show on any official (or unofficial) counts
2) isolate even when sick.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 08, 2020, 04:45:44 PM
And meshulachim will not
1) get tested/checked and won't show on any official (or unofficial) counts
2) isolate even when sick.
But those who they spread it to should presumably show up. 5 positives today (OCHD). Nothing out of the ordinary in the official numbers
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 08, 2020, 04:49:37 PM
But those who they spread it to should presumably show up. 5 positives today (OCHD). Nothing out of the ordinary in the official numbers
Presumably the difference between what you are seeing and what the Dr is seeing has to do with this.

In or out of the community?
vs. this
OCHD numbers

I heard it on a conference call where I was not able to ask further. It is also a question of
cases creeping up
c"v turning into more than that and how to avoid that without shutting things down.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 08, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
Hearing concern from Lakewood doctors about cases creeping up and being brought in from FL and meshulachim who spread it around town.
This is an interesting concern. Meshulachim come in contact with more people than (almost) anyone else in town, it would make sense that they'd likely pick it up and then spread it to many people who have nothing to do with each other.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 08, 2020, 05:05:15 PM
This is an interesting concern. Meshulachim come in contact with more people than (almost) anyone else in town, it would make sense that they'd likely pick it up and then spread it to many people who have nothing to do with each other.
Especially the wave of Israeli meshulachim around now coming from a hotspot
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 08, 2020, 05:34:56 PM
This is an interesting concern. Meshulachim come in contact with more people than (almost) anyone else in town, it would make sense that they'd likely pick it up and then spread it to many people who have nothing to do with each other.
Especially the wave of Israeli meshulachim around now coming from a hotspot
This is exactly the concern. Someone infected comes from a hotspot and now goes around from shul to shul to shul and house to house to house and chasuna to chasuna.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
This is exactly the concern. Someone infected comes from a hotspot and now goes around from shul to shul to shul and house to house to house and chasuna to chasuna.
Which is what happened by the measles outbreak a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 08, 2020, 05:40:30 PM
This is exactly the concern. Someone infected comes from a hotspot and now goes around from shul to shul to shul and house to house to house and chasuna to chasuna.
Contact is limited to a very short amount of time. The risk seems to be mainly with 15+ minutes within 6 feet.

Why is this the biggest issue?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 08, 2020, 05:44:52 PM
Which is what happened by the measles outbreak a couple years ago.
https://dusiznies.blogspot.com/2019/04/israeli-meshulach-infects-38-people.html
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 05:45:54 PM
https://dusiznies.blogspot.com/2019/04/israeli-meshulach-infects-38-people.html
Was it only 1 year ago?? Sheesh
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 08, 2020, 05:54:59 PM
Was it only 1 year ago?? Sheesh
One entire disease ago.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 06:00:34 PM
Hearing concern from Lakewood doctors about cases creeping up and being brought in from FL and meshulachim who spread it around town.
There are an additional 5-6 cases in the Somerset Walk area (originating from someone who went to shul after coming back from Florida).

I don't believe these are the same as the ones mentioned early last week.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 08, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
There are an additional 5-6 cases in the Somerset Walk area (originating from someone who went to shul after coming back from Florida).

I don't believe these are the same as the ones mentioned early last week.
Stop fear mongering. 6 will be zero.
This is an interesting concern. Meshulachim come in contact with more people than (almost) anyone else in town, it would make sense that they'd likely pick it up and then spread it to many people who have nothing to do with each other.
Is it just me or has there been a flood of meshulachim in town recently? Probably getting two knocks a day now.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 08, 2020, 06:51:29 PM
There are an additional 5-6 cases in the Somerset Walk area (originating from someone who went to shul after coming back from Florida).

I don't believe these are the same as the ones mentioned early last week.
With two weeks of exposure we should have an opportunity to see if there is a lack of herd immunity in Lakewood. By all accounts the infected individuals have been freely circulating and there is little SD being practiced by the populace. If Lakewood remains largely susceptible then there should be a cascade of silent spread as we speak, as weíve seen in other susceptible areas that are not SD, and hundreds of people at a minimum should be coming down with covid in a matter of weeks. Let us see what actually happens...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 07:01:03 PM
With two weeks of exposure we should have an opportunity to see if there is a lack of herd immunity in Lakewood. By all accounts the infected individuals have been freely circulating and there is little SD being practiced by the populace. If Lakewood remains largely susceptible then there should be a cascade of silent spread as we speak, as weíve seen in other susceptible areas that are not SD, and hundreds of people at a minimum should be coming down with covid in a matter of weeks. Let us see what actually happens...
Or we could take precautions and leave science experiments to actual scientists?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 07:07:35 PM
Or we could take precautions and leave science experiments to actual scientists?

For the benefit of @Lurker I will post the dictionary meaning.

(https://i.imgur.com/CeWF0Iv.png)

Do you really think you will change people's behaviors with DDF posts (or any other way within your means)?

Or as they say in Israel: בכביש אל תהיה צודק, תהיה חכם!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 08, 2020, 07:12:17 PM
Or we could take precautions and leave science experiments to actual scientists?
We both know that like it or not that isnít happening in Lakewood so we are left with an opportunity to sit back and observe.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 07:12:27 PM
For the benefit of @Lurker I will post the dictionary meaning.

(https://i.imgur.com/CeWF0Iv.png)

Do you really think you will change people's behaviors with DDF posts (or any other way within your means)?
Oh I'm well aware that nothing will change. Other than @yuneeq - I highly doubt anything anyone has said on this board made a measurable difference in anything.

The most I was hoping for in my original post was to spread the word that Covid-19 is in Lakewood and seemingly spreading.

My response to @Yard sale was sarcastic, coming from a place of frustration over the apparent lack of any amount of caution in the community.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 07:15:43 PM
My response to @Yard sale was sarcastic, coming from a place of frustration over the apparent lack of any amount of caution in the community.
גם זה יעבור

With age, your frustration will turn into cynicism.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 08, 2020, 10:31:59 PM
This is exactly the concern. Someone infected comes from a hotspot and now goes around from shul to shul to shul and house to house to house and chasuna to chasuna.
I get the feeling this is the make it or break it, if we can resolve this issue Lakewood can get thru this without a serious outbreak, if not we're probably going to have a pretty serious outbreak.

A situation like this would probably need 95%+ immunity to reach herd immunity.
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 10:35:12 PM
I get the feeling this is the make it or break it, if we can resolve this issue Lakewood can get thru this without a serious outbreak, if not we're probably going to have a pretty serious outbreak.

A situation like this would probably need 95%+ immunity to reach herd immunity.
צדקה תציל ממות
There's no need to do anything. Let's embrace it. We obviously don't understand the power of tzedakah.

Am I doing this correctly?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 08, 2020, 10:42:55 PM
צדקה תציל ממות
There's no need to do anything. Let's embrace it. We obviously don't understand the power of tzedakah.

Am I doing this correctly?
I'm not sure if you're doing it correctly, but you're definitely on the right track.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 11:06:15 PM

Dr. Ditchek says that he saw 2 patients today who've been reinfected even though they've had antibodies (one donated plasma twice).
Watch the video for more details about additional cases.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: 4yourinfo on July 08, 2020, 11:20:59 PM

Dr. Ditchek says that he saw 2 patients today who've been reinfected even though they've had antibodies (one donated plasma twice).
Watch the video for more details about additional cases.
Yikes!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: moko on July 08, 2020, 11:31:14 PM
With age, your frustration will turn into cynicism.
wow. I must be old. Didn't realize how old.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 08, 2020, 11:42:11 PM

Dr. Ditchek says that he saw 2 patients today who've been reinfected even though they've had antibodies (one donated plasma twice).
Watch the video for more details about additional cases.

I find this to be pretty concerning. If 2 immune family members are both testing positive right after exposure, and after negative tests, itíd have to be a pretty unlikely coincidence if it wasnít reinfection.

Hereís what one of them sent out today-
ďAs many of you know our family has been through a terrible trauma as my mother has been very sick for months . Today I was discovered to have a new Coronavirus infection. I had so many antibodies in the past few months that I donated plasma two times (over 2 liters of plasma)!
I had several negative Coronavirus swabs in the last two months since being sick the first time.
There are now many new cases in our community and growing.
 I am asking everybody in the Zechut of my mother to please take this seriously,
Unfortunately many in our community are denying the new cases. There is no denying the truth. We must be carful and act now to save lives.
Thank you,
Jack (redacted)Ē

Unrelated but a relative In Lakewood had a kid in the same bunk that tested positive today. And then Iím hearing rumors of ďlots of other mild casesĒ which I hope arenít true, and well, I donít see them in the daily numbers. 
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 08, 2020, 11:43:51 PM
I find this to be pretty concerning. If 2 immune family members are both testing positive right after exposure, and after negative tests, itíd have to be a pretty unlikely coincidence if it wasnít reinfection.

Hereís what one of them sent out today-
ďAs many of you know our family has been through a terrible trauma as my mother has been very sick for months . Today I was discovered to have a new Coronavirus infection. I had so many antibodies in the past few months that I donated plasma two times (over 2 liters of plasma)!
I had several negative Coronavirus swabs in the last two months since being sick the first time.
There are now many new cases in our community and growing.
 I am asking everybody in the Zechut of my mother to please take this seriously,
Unfortunately many in our community are denying the new cases. There is no denying the truth. We must be carful and act now to save lives.
Thank you,
Jack (redacted)Ē

Unrelated but a relative In Lakewood had a kid in the same bunk that tested positive today. And then Iím hearing rumors of ďlots of other mild casesĒ which I hope arenít true, and well, I donít see them in the daily numbers.
Although if it's true that there's a one week turnaround on tests in the NY/NJ area right now, they wouldn't show in the daily OCHD numbers yet.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 08, 2020, 11:47:32 PM
I find this to be pretty concerning. If 2 immune family members are both testing positive right after exposure, and after negative tests, itíd have to be a pretty unlikely coincidence if it wasnít reinfection.

Hereís what one of them sent out today-
ďAs many of you know our family has been through a terrible trauma as my mother has been very sick for months . Today I was discovered to have a new Coronavirus infection. I had so many antibodies in the past few months that I donated plasma two times (over 2 liters of plasma)!
I had several negative Coronavirus swabs in the last two months since being sick the first time.
There are now many new cases in our community and growing.
 I am asking everybody in the Zechut of my mother to please take this seriously,
Unfortunately many in our community are denying the new cases. There is no denying the truth. We must be carful and act now to save lives.
Thank you,
Jack (redacted)Ē

Unrelated but a relative In Lakewood had a kid in the same bunk that tested positive today. And then Iím hearing rumors of ďlots of other mild casesĒ which I hope arenít true, and well, I donít see them in the daily numbers.
Could those ďlots of other mild casesĒ be referring to the cold and sore through virus that is sweeping through Lakewood over the last week or so? Seems like everyone is getting cold/congestion/ sore throat etc. but probably not covid.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 08, 2020, 11:57:31 PM
Could those ďlots of other mild casesĒ be referring to the cold and sore through virus that is sweeping through Lakewood over the last week or so? Seems like everyone is getting cold/congestion/ sore throat etc. but probably not covid.

It could be nothing at all, I didnít hear from a substantiated source. But yes I have noticed an increase in colds, which is concerning, because the same ease of  transmission for the cold can be replicated with corona.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 09, 2020, 10:26:51 AM
For the benefit of @Lurker I will post the dictionary meaning.

(https://i.imgur.com/CeWF0Iv.png)

Do you really think you will change people's behaviors with DDF posts (or any other way within your means)?

Or as they say in Israel: בכביש אל תהיה צודק, תהיה חכם!

I post on here because I owe DDF a great debt. I did not take Covid seriously until a little before Purim. The information posted here was invaluable in educating me in what was (and is) going on, and how to keep my family safe without locking myself in a room and losing my mind. In turn, that information was shared with my family, friends, and community, and from there it was passed on to their contacts, and on and on. Does everyone take me seriously? Hell no! I get laughed at more often than not. But to some people, the posts of DDFers like @yuneeq @S209 @Yard sale @aygart @Dan @CountValentine @Afrages6 @biobook and many, many more have had a huge impact on the lives of countless people they will never meet. It's ironic that it's you who thinks they don't make a difference. I can't count how many Twitter threads and articles YOU posted that were influential in guiding the decisions that I have personally made. I can't speak for others, but I doubt I'm the only one.

I used to be a cynic. I lived my life wanting to die. What is life when nothing matters? Then I grew up. Cynicism isn't what happens to frustration when you get older; it's what happens when you stop trying to address your frustrations.

There have been a number of comments recently about the changes Covid has brought about to people's personalities. Your posts make me question how Covid has affected you. You are DDF's ultimate Lubavitcher. Your profile picture is 770. The most painful part of the restrictions for you was your inability to daven in 770. The way you talk about your family, your interactions with others, farbrengens, hashkafos, life; everything about you screams I AM A CHOSSID OF THE LUBAVITCHER REBBE!! How can you sit here and tell me that one person can't change anything in the world? That nothing I say on here or do in my life offline can change people's behaviors? Who are you?! You're going to blame old age for cynicism? Throw in the towel, become a fatalist? This is really what you think of life now? This is a Lubavitcher??? And they wonder why people are shocked at the transformations they're seeing in attitudes and behaviors of their peers and acquaintances, family and friends, people they love and respect.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: good sam on July 09, 2020, 10:53:51 AM
I post on here because I owe DDF a great debt. I did not take Covid seriously until a little before Purim. The information posted here was invaluable in educating me in what was (and is) going on, and how to keep my family safe without locking myself in a room and losing my mind. In turn, that information was shared with my family, friends, and community, and from there it was passed on to their contacts, and on and on. Does everyone take me seriously? Hell no! I get laughed at more often than not. But to some people, the posts of DDFers like @yuneeq @S209 @Yard sale @aygart @Dan @CountValentine @Afrages6 @biobook and many, many more have had a huge impact on the lives of countless people they will never meet. It's ironic that it's you who thinks they don't make a difference. I can't count how many Twitter threads and articles YOU posted that were influential in guiding the decisions that I have personally made. I can't speak for others, but I doubt I'm the only one.

I used to be a cynic. I lived my life wanting to die. What is life when nothing matters? Then I grew up. Cynicism isn't what happens to frustration when you get older; it's what happens when you stop trying to address your frustrations.

There have been a number of comments recently about the changes Covid has brought about to people's personalities. Your posts make me question how Covid has affected you. You are DDF's ultimate Lubavitcher. Your profile picture is 770. The most painful part of the restrictions for you was your inability to daven in 770. The way you talk about your family, your interactions with others, farbrengens, hashkafos, life; everything about you screams I AM A CHOSSID OF THE LUBAVITCHER REBBE!! How can you sit here and tell me that one person can't change anything in the world? That nothing I say on here or do in my life offline can change people's behaviors? Who are you?! You're going to blame old age for cynicism? Throw in the towel, become a fatalist? This is really what you think of life now? This is a Lubavitcher??? And they wonder why people are shocked at the transformations they're seeing in attitudes and behaviors of their peers and acquaintances, family and friends, people they love and respect.
Don't forget @chevron
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 09, 2020, 10:53:53 AM

Dr. Ditchek says that he saw 2 patients today who've been reinfected even though they've had antibodies (one donated plasma twice).
Watch the video for more details about additional cases.
Now that everyone is davening with a minyan legally and he can't call the cops 2 people conveniently get re infected. I call BS. He said them at his clinical genetics office?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 09, 2020, 11:00:05 AM
Don't forget @chevron

I'm missing more people than that. If I've interacted with you on DDF, whether I agreed with what you posted or your position, or I argued with you (sometimes maybe a little violently), I've most probably learned something from you.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2020, 11:11:42 AM
Agree that things and articles posted by @ExGingi have certainly affected how I think about some things. He's clearly a proud Chosid.

Also agree that his posts have been different since COVID and that's something I've now heard from a few people. But that's something I've also seen from several others and on Whatsapp groups I'm in.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 09, 2020, 11:12:40 AM

Dr. Ditchek says that he saw 2 patients today who've been reinfected even though they've had antibodies (one donated plasma twice).
Watch the video for more details about additional cases.
The guy is a straight liar. Heís been caught lying so many different times throughout the last couple months. I wonít believe anything the guy ever says again.
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 09, 2020, 11:14:06 AM
The guy is a straight liar. Heís been caught lying so many different times throughout the last couple months. I wonít believe anything the guy ever says again.
I definitely understand this sentiment. But what he's saying corroborates what the Gedaliah Society has been saying. Additionally, his patient has come forward and released info on WhatsApp. I tend to believe him in this case based on that.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2020, 11:14:31 AM
Now that everyone is davening with a minyan legally and he can't call the cops 2 people conveniently get re infected. I call BS. He said them at his clinical genetics office?
Do you really think reinfection is impossible?
That seems naive. I'd say the best case scenario is that it's genetic among that family.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 09, 2020, 11:20:09 AM
The guy is a straight liar. Heís been caught lying so many different times throughout the last couple months. I wonít believe anything the guy ever says again.
example?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 09, 2020, 11:21:16 AM
Do you really think reinfection is impossible?
That seems naive. I'd say the best case scenario is that it's genetic among that family.
Fauci said it doesn't seem likely. And along comes a DR who has nothing to do with corona and says he has seen 2 cases. Not even talking about reinfection, just don't believe him.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Fauci said it doesn't seem likely. And along comes a DR who has nothing to do with corona and says he has seen 2 cases. Not even talking about reinfection, just don't believe him.
Lol, now you trust Fauci?
Anyway, he said it's not likely for a period of time. That will vary among different people I'd assume.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 09, 2020, 11:30:47 AM

. Today I was discovered to have a new Coronavirus infection.
Jack (redacted)Ē

what does a new coronavirus infection mean?

He got sick or he swabbed positive without symptoms?

I have seen many people with antibodies Have A positive swab with no symptoms. 2 days later they are negative again.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: momo on July 09, 2020, 11:35:19 AM
Lol, now you trust Fauci?
Anyway, he said it's not likely for a period of time. That will vary among different people I'd assume.
What he says about reinfection might be possible. That being said, Boro park and Williamsburg havenít ever really been closed, but definitely been open for the past 6 weeks. No masks, no social distancing, and I havenít heard of a single case of reinfection. I honestly havenít heard of any new cases at all. One would imagine, that if reinfection was prevalent, this would have happened by now.  Now itís possible that it may take longer, but right now what he is saying is highly suspect. Itís difficult to let go of the spotlight, once the 15 minutes of fame are up.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2020, 11:38:32 AM
Nobody has said it's prevalent currently.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: elazarmn on July 09, 2020, 11:39:54 AM
Ummm...hes not like a pediatrist or an ophthalmologist. Hes a very well known DR.
In fact he even runs a camp for special needs kids!! So if anything he has ALL what to do with Covid-19
Anyway, inappropriate to run down a doctor you have no idea about.
In the future it may be wise to google there name before dismissing their credibility
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: shaulyaakov on July 09, 2020, 11:42:47 AM
Nobody has said it's prevalent currently.
Unless there are 2 strains and one doesn't provide immunity to the other.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: elazarmn on July 09, 2020, 11:45:05 AM
What he says about reinfection might be possible. That being said, Boro park and Williamsburg havenít ever really been closed, but definitely been open for the past 6 weeks. No masks, no social distancing, and I havenít heard of a single case of reinfection. I honestly havenít heard of any new cases at all. One would imagine, that if reinfection was prevalent, this would have happened by now.  Now itís possible that it may take longer, but right now what he is saying is highly suspect. Itís difficult to let go of the spotlight, once the 15 minutes of fame are up.
What Dr. D said was that as soon as the antibodies ware off we are going to see a surge in cases. That is why he gave the example of that guy in deal. He donated plasma and when those antibodies left he wasnt virus proof anymore
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 09, 2020, 11:47:22 AM
Ummm...hes not like a pediatrist or an ophthalmologist. Hes a very well known DR.
In fact he even runs a camp for special needs kids!! So if anything he has ALL what to do with Covid-19
Anyway, inappropriate to run down a doctor you have no idea about.
In the future it may be wise to google there name before dismissing their credibility
He's a pediatrician.

He lost all credibility throughout corona. The one that bothers me the most is when he told a group of sfardi rabbis "1/4 people here will die from corona"
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 09, 2020, 11:48:09 AM
What Dr. D said was that as soon as the antibodies ware off we are going to see a surge in cases. That is why he gave the example of that guy in deal. He donated plasma and when those antibodies left he wasnt virus proof anymore
You mean he's still Dr Doom & Gloom?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 12:03:11 PM
There have been a number of comments recently about the changes Covid has brought about to people's personalities. Your posts make me question how Covid has affected you. You are DDF's ultimate Lubavitcher. Your profile picture is 770. The most painful part of the restrictions for you was your inability to daven in 770. The way you talk about your family, your interactions with others, farbrengens, hashkafos, life; everything about you screams I AM A CHOSSID OF THE LUBAVITCHER REBBE!! How can you sit here and tell me that one person can't change anything in the world? That nothing I say on here or do in my life offline can change people's behaviors? Who are you?! You're going to blame old age for cynicism? Throw in the towel, become a fatalist? This is really what you think of life now? This is a Lubavitcher??? And they wonder why people are shocked at the transformations they're seeing in attitudes and behaviors of their peers and acquaintances, family and friends, people they love and respect.

Indeed, I am unashamed about who I am, and I've even started a DDF thread about self laveling/identification (there's even a DDF member who chose his name as a result of that thread). I also try not to label others or criticize them (I might criticize words, opinions, or actions, but I try to never get personal or judgemental). I might not be the best communicator, and come across differently than intended (the format and medium are also not the most ideal for thorough, fully seld-reviewed and edited communications. I enjoy helping people, and I share my knowledge and experience wherever I think some might benefit. In any event, anything I say or write represents nothing but my own opinions or observations (and I sometimes post things I disagree with) except where I post an attributed quote.

My real life persona is no secret. Anyone that tries can reach me. Though many might not know what I might have been involved with on a communal level in the past 33 years. I have witnessed a lot, I have done my fare share to effectuate change (or have some serious influence) but I have learned my limitations. I have also learned that despite what my opinion might be, and no matter how strongly held, I might not always be right. I also strongly believe that there can be two diametrically opposite approaches to an issue which are both valid.

There are certain things I will not respond to, as they will bring to this public forum issues which I think don't belong here. So to paraphrase a line from your profile, attributed to @yelped, a lack of response from me to something, doesn't mean ANYTHING one way or another.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 12:05:41 PM
Agree that things and articles posted by @ExGingi have certainly affected how I think about some things. He's clearly a proud Chosid.

Also agree that his posts have been different since COVID and that's something I've now heard from a few people. But that's something I've also seen from several others and on Whatsapp groups I'm in.

I am truly humbled by the first part of your post, and puzzled by the second part.

I like healthy criticism, and would love to be shown how my posts are different. Did covid-19 have a major effect on me? Definitely! Indirectly through the difficulties of the lockdown.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: elazarmn on July 09, 2020, 12:06:56 PM
You mean he's still Dr Doom & Gloom?
I hear that,
Although in this case one may understand that he has not diagnosed those patients that re-infected.
This is just a look at what he sees from a medical point of view. But i do understand why you have something against him.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 09, 2020, 12:08:03 PM
Ummm...hes not like a pediatrist or an ophthalmologist. Hes a very well known DR.
In fact he even runs a camp for special needs kids!! So if anything he has ALL what to do with Covid-19
Anyway, inappropriate to run down a doctor you have no idea about.
In the future it may be wise to google there name before dismissing their credibility
Very well known? No one uses him in Flatbush, heís a pediatrician who got some attention when no one knew what was going on and now everyone realizes that he has been way over the top and caught in one too many lies for anyone to trust him.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 09, 2020, 12:10:00 PM
I hear that,
Although in this case one may understand that he has not diagnosed those patients that re-infected.
This is just a look at what he sees from a medical point of view. But i do understand why you have something against him.
I didn't watch the video and don't plan on, I assume anything he says to be false and only intended to spread panic.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 09, 2020, 12:19:31 PM
Other than the part about reinfection thereís nothing surprising in what he said. Kind of like the baal shem stories- if you believe everything ditchek says you are a fool, but if you donít believe it could have happened...

People are confusing herd immunity with eradication. Itís a fact that not every single person, even in the hardest hit communities has had the virus and is immune, especially those who took strict precautions. Thereís no magic- if a stream of infected people coming from Florida, California, Israel etc. circulate in Lakewood and other communities, there will be some who get infected. The question is if it can lead to a massive outbreak, or if there is sufficient herd immunity to prevent secondary waves that continue to spread throughout the community, and we can expect a limited number of positives that remain fairly limited as people come out of quarantine and relax precautions. I believe the latter is true in Lakewood but the coming weeks should provide an answer.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: elazarmn on July 09, 2020, 01:30:50 PM
Other than the part about reinfection thereís nothing surprising in what he said. Kind of like the baal shem stories- if you believe everything ditchek says you are a fool, but if you donít believe it could have happened...

People are confusing herd immunity with eradication. Itís a fact that not every single person, even in the hardest hit communities has had the virus and is immune, especially those who took strict precautions. Thereís no magic- if a stream of infected people coming from Florida, California, Israel etc. circulate in Lakewood and other communities, there will be some who get infected. The question is if it can lead to a massive outbreak, or if there is sufficient herd immunity to prevent secondary waves that continue to spread throughout the community, and we can expect a limited number of positives that remain fairly limited as people come out of quarantine and relax precautions. I believe the latter is true in Lakewood but the coming weeks should provide an answer.
Very well said
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 09, 2020, 02:24:24 PM
Other than the part about reinfection thereís nothing surprising in what he said. Kind of like the baal shem stories- if you believe everything ditchek says you are a fool, but if you donít believe it could have happened...

People are confusing herd immunity with eradication. Itís a fact that not every single person, even in the hardest hit communities has had the virus and is immune, especially those who took strict precautions. Thereís no magic- if a stream of infected people coming from Florida, California, Israel etc. circulate in Lakewood and other communities, there will be some who get infected. The question is if it can lead to a massive outbreak, or if there is sufficient herd immunity to prevent secondary waves that continue to spread throughout the community, and we can expect a limited number of positives that remain fairly limited as people come out of quarantine and relax precautions. I believe the latter is true in Lakewood but the coming weeks should provide an answer.

Well written. In your opinion, what is the main concern regarding a second wave? Is it the amount of people getting sick, the restrictions it will trigger, or something else?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 09, 2020, 02:47:27 PM
Well written. In your opinion, what is the main concern regarding a second wave? Is it the amount of people getting sick, the restrictions it will trigger, or something else?
I think overwhelming the system (running out of ventilators, ICU capacity) in Lakewood is pretty much off the table at this point so if one were to be concerned about a second wave I think the concern would be first regarding the vulnerable population. If the virus were to be widespread it becomes difficult to impossible to prevent exposure to vulnerable people, even those taking proper precautions. I have an immunocompromised relative who didnít leave her home in March and April yet she had antibodies. Was it the supermarket delivery guy who touched the boxes? Was it virus that somehow made its way onto our gloves when we dropped off necessities? Itís hard to know.

The second concern would be the sheer numbers of people contracting the virus would likely mean some serious cases or even fatalities in the general healthy population, despite the fact that the number of those suffering serious long term side effects (or fatalities) in the general healthy population is very small. This second concern assumes that a vaccine or efficacious treatment  is eventually developed in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise these individuals would have likely contracted the virus at some point in the future in any case.

Again nothing that would indicate such a scenario at this time.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 09, 2020, 02:50:21 PM
I have an immunocompromised relative who didnít leave her home in March and April yet she had antibodies. Was it the supermarket delivery guy who touched the boxes? Was it virus that somehow made its way onto our gloves when we dropped off necessities? Itís hard to know.
Or she contracted the virus before we knew it was spreading.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 02:55:03 PM
Or she contracted the virus before we knew it was spreading.

Didn't @chevron mention at some point that immunocompromised people (or was it people on immunosuppressants?) were actually not getting that sick, something to do with not having a cytokine storm?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2020, 02:55:10 PM
Or she contracted the virus before we knew it was spreading.
Yup, like me.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 09, 2020, 03:00:34 PM
Yup, like me.
Skver is also under the impression that the rebbeh got it in February.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 09, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
Or she contracted the virus before we knew it was spreading.
True. There are others I know of who took precautions and had onset of symptoms some time afterward.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: chevron on July 09, 2020, 03:02:27 PM
Didn't @chevron mention at some point that immunocompromised people (or was it people on immunosuppressants?) were actually not getting that sick, something to do with not having a cytokine storm?

Some people who are on immunosuppressants their drugs are actually blocking the virus from attacking the body
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 09, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Skver is also under the impression that the rebbeh got it in February.
Which rebbishe magazine reports this?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 09, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
The guy is a straight liar. Heís been caught lying so many different times throughout the last couple months. I wonít believe anything the guy ever says again.
@Afrages6 or anyone else... do you have any examples of him lying?
This video was forwarded to a family member who just locked down her family totally as a result. Need some help discrediting him or at least make some room in their mind that he may just be wrong.
TIA
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 03:19:41 PM
@Afrages6 or anyone else... do you have any examples of him lying?
This video was forwarded to a family member who just locked down her family totally as a result. Need some help discrediting him or at least make some room in their mind that he may just be wrong.
TIA
Why would it bother you if a family member was being more cautious?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on July 09, 2020, 03:19:56 PM
Which rebbishe magazine reports this?
Lol
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 09, 2020, 03:21:13 PM
@Afrages6 or anyone else... do you have any examples of him lying?
This video was forwarded to a family member who just locked down her family totally as a result. Need some help discrediting him or at least make some room in their mind that he may just be wrong.
TIA

Two months ago he claimed that camps were already told that they arenít being allowed to open and they are just trying to steal your money if they tell you that they are opening. He also had that long voice note which he sent around about Lakewood and how he tried to get the porch minyanim too stop after the rabbanim allowed them which was filled with lies.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 03:22:06 PM
Two months ago he claimed that camps were already told that they arenít being allowed to open and they are just trying to steal your money if they tell you that they are opening. He also had that long voice note which he sent around about Lakewood and how he tried to get the porch minyanim too stop after the rabbanim allowed them which was filled with lies.
Wasnít this obviously true?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 09, 2020, 03:23:55 PM
Wasnít this obviously true?

Not even in the slightest, he said in April that camps were told that they were not being allowed too open. There was no decision of any kind until June 12th, he said in that same message that any camp owner that is still taking money is not being honest.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
Not even in the slightest, he said in April that camps were told that they were not being allowed too open. There was no decision of any kind until June 12th, he said in that same message that any camp owner that is still taking money is not being honest.
Iím not disagreeing as I donít know but I wouldnít be surprised if camps were already informed in April that camps would not be permitted to open.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 09, 2020, 03:25:51 PM
Iím not disagreeing as I donít know but I wouldnít be surprised if camps were already informed in April that camps would not be permitted to open.
But they werenít.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 03:26:12 PM
But they werenít.
Fair enough, do you have a source? Or do you work in the industry?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 09, 2020, 03:27:57 PM
Fair enough, do you have a source? Or do you work in the industry?
I am close with a camp owner. They heard nothing from the state about how they were leaning until the very end.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 09, 2020, 03:28:04 PM
But they werenít.
Thanks. Anything he was straight up wrong with medically?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikes@Micro on July 09, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Why would it bother you if a family member was being more cautious?
Because they are being restrictive on other people:
Getting kids to scream at father/ male siblings that they are murders every time they come home from mask wearing outdoor minyanim.
Not allowing their boys who have school to attend even though the principals are having local doctors call up and begging her to send for the kids own good.
Considering shutting down an entire day camp by saying her kids may have has a safeik contact with an infected person and they contacted a neighbor.
Not allowing sons to learn with chavrusa.
Not allowing any grocery shopping.
Not allowing husband to go to work
Not allowing kids to go to a large football field bc they once went and she saw a family 500 feet away.
More coming soon :)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 09, 2020, 03:41:32 PM
Because they are being restrictive on other people:
Getting kids to scream at father/ male siblings that they are murders every time they come home from mask wearing outdoor minyanim.
Not allowing their boys who have school to attend even though the principals are having local doctors call up and begging her to send for the kids own good.
Considering shutting down an entire day camp by saying her kids may have has a safeik contact with an infected person and they contacted a neighbor.
Not allowing sons to learn with chavrusa.
Not allowing any grocery shopping.
Not allowing husband to go to work
Not allowing kids to go to a large football field bc they once went and she saw a family 500 feet away.
More coming soon :)
https://www.reliefhelp.org/
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 03:48:08 PM
Because they are being restrictive on other people:
Getting kids to scream at father/ male siblings that they are murders every time they come home from mask wearing outdoor minyanim.
Not allowing their boys who have school to attend even though the principals are having local doctors call up and begging her to send for the kids own good.
Considering shutting down an entire day camp by saying her kids may have has a safeik contact with an infected person and they contacted a neighbor.
Not allowing sons to learn with chavrusa.
Not allowing any grocery shopping.
Not allowing husband to go to work
Not allowing kids to go to a large football field bc they once went and she saw a family 500 feet away.
More coming soon :)
I donít think the issues here start or end with COVID
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 09, 2020, 05:09:18 PM
0 positives today (OCHD)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
0 positives today (OCHD)
Bh. Spoke with a doctor at Friendly Urgent care today. She told me there were no new cases in Lakewood today, and 35 new cases total in Lakewood in the last few weeks. She did mention that theyíve seen 10 themselves in the last 2 weeks. Also mentioned that Deal is having a bit of an outbreak  now. She said she isnít so concerned about the video going around about reinfection because these reinfections are not fully confirmed, and one of them has no symptoms he just gets tested weekly for his mother so itís likely one of the tests were faulty.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mf1 on July 09, 2020, 07:27:18 PM
a talk now on a halachik aprroach on risks by Rabbi Braun
&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 09, 2020, 07:50:23 PM
a talk now on a halachik aprroach on risks by Rabbi Braun
Fantastic shiur, thanks for posting.

Very strong halachic case for wearing a mask and ignoring peer pressure.
@ExGingi, response?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 08:13:43 PM
Fantastic shiur, thanks for posting.

Very strong halachic case for wearing a mask and ignoring peer pressure.
@ExGingi, response?

PM sent.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 09, 2020, 09:10:36 PM
PM sent.
Hey! Can I get one?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 09, 2020, 09:23:08 PM
a talk now on a halachik aprroach on risks by Rabbi Braun
&feature=youtu.be
TLDW?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 09, 2020, 09:42:01 PM
Hey! Can I get one?
Nope. Unless you prove that you ate Kasha from Tomchei Temimim.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 10, 2020, 01:08:24 AM
a talk now on a halachik aprroach on risks by Rabbi Braun
&feature=youtu.be

Video private
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 10, 2020, 03:08:51 AM
Do you really think reinfection is impossible?
That seems naive. I'd say the best case scenario is that it's genetic among that family.
A well known doctor in Lakewood who seems to be familiar with the cases in Deal says Ditcheks  claim of reinfection in those two patients is highly dubious at best. He says there is one case in queens that is being looked at somewhat more closely than Ditcheks claims.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 10, 2020, 04:27:20 AM
Video private

Maybe it will be reposted after editing.  There was quite a bit in the beginning that needed to be cut off before the actual shiur started.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mf1 on July 10, 2020, 09:16:40 AM
here it is
&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 10, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
Fantastic shiur, thanks for posting.

Very strong halachic case for wearing a mask and ignoring peer pressure.
@ExGingi, response?
Who am I to respond. I  do not posses 1/100th of Rabbi Braun's Torah knowledge and bekius, and he has the added benefit of סייעתא דשמיא that comes with holding a position of Halachic Authority for a community.

The only comment I can have is that I wish this wouldn't stay in the realm of פלפולא בעלמא but rather get down to עולם המעשה. I hope I will be proven wrong, so far it doesn't seems so. Though I did make my comments known to his close circles in no unequivocal terms this morning.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 10, 2020, 10:36:03 AM
Change starts with you.

Everyone is masked at my minyan without exception.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 10:49:08 AM
A well known doctor in Lakewood who seems to be familiar with the cases in Deal says Ditcheks  claim of reinfection in those two patients is highly dubious at best. He says there is one case in queens that is being looked at somewhat more closely than Ditcheks claims.
name?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 10, 2020, 10:51:22 AM
Change starts with you.

Everyone is masked at my minyan without exception.

You're really trying to compare your minyan to 770?  ::)  ::)  ::)

Maybe we can write a fairytale book about that comparison.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on July 10, 2020, 10:57:44 AM
You start by leading by example and upholding the psak din.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 10, 2020, 11:58:59 AM
The only comment I can have is that I wish this wouldn't stay in the realm of פלפולא בעלמא but rather get down to עולם המעשה. I hope I will be proven wrong, so far it doesn't seems so. Though I did make my comments known to his close circles in no unequivocal terms this morning.
the guidance on guests isolating would be nice if it was followed as well. no reason for locals to welcome them with open arms in defiance of halachic guidance
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 10, 2020, 12:08:01 PM
name?
I donít think he wants to be named so take for what itís worth to you
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:13:57 PM
I donít think he wants to be named so take for what itís worth to you
I love when people do that, they lose credibility IMO
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Afrages6 on July 10, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
I love when people do that, they lose credibility IMO
If he puts his name out there he will be the next one for ditchek to attack.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:16:25 PM
If he puts his name out there he will be the next one for ditchek to attack.
Ok so if you think you are right then stand behind it
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 12:17:47 PM
I love when people do that, they lose credibility IMO
The doctors in Lakewood are very wary of any sort of public announcement after the backlash they experienced in March/April. Source: a Lakewood doctor.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:23:34 PM
The doctors in Lakewood are very wary of any sort of public announcement after the backlash they experienced in March/April. Source: a Lakewood doctor.
All people want to do nowadays is be politically correct, no one cares about the truth anymore.... its sad
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 12:25:17 PM
All people want to do nowadays is be politically correct, no one cares about the truth anymore.... its sad
I agree with the sentiment but this is a practical decision knowing that they have limited bullets in their "public announcement" gun, they can't afford to lose more trust.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:27:01 PM
Well either way, if I have 2 doctors contradicting each other, I would like to be able to pull up their resumes and make an informed decision on who to believe, but when all I hear is a well respected doctor from Lakewood that doesnt help me much.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 12:27:36 PM
All people want to do nowadays is be politically correct, no one cares about the truth anymore.... its sad

I hear your frustration, but remember that most doctors just want to deal with medicine, not politics. On hot button issues like this one, it can be challenging to find a balance. One public statement, and you get dragged through the mud by anyone who disagrees.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 10, 2020, 12:28:40 PM
I love when people do that, they lose credibility IMO
Np go with Ditchek if he seem credible to you
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mercaz1 on July 10, 2020, 12:29:44 PM
I agree with the sentiment but this is a practical decision knowing that they have limited bullets in their "public announcement" gun, they can't afford to lose more trust.

if they are honest then there is no losing trust

you only lose trust when you are being dishonest
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 12:29:51 PM
Well either way, if I have 2 doctors contradicting each other, I would like to be able to pull up their resumes and make an informed decision on who to believe, but when all I hear is a well respected doctor from Lakewood that doesnt help me much.

Practically speaking, what would you do differently if you felt one doctor was right? At this point, if you're taking the precautions you should be taking, it shouldn't matter if 1 or 2 cases are reinfections or flare-ups.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:30:22 PM
Np go with Ditchek if he seem credible to you
listen say what you want about Ditcheck but at least he doesnt hide behind what he believes in.....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:31:24 PM
Practically speaking, what would you do differently if you felt one doctor was right? At this point, if you're taking the precautions you should be taking, it shouldn't matter if 1 or 2 cases are reinfections or flare-ups.
It doesnt matter practically but I am trying to learn more about the virus
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on July 10, 2020, 12:33:21 PM
The doctors in Lakewood are very wary of any sort of public announcement after the backlash they experienced in March/April. Source: a Lakewood doctor.
The irony, of course, is that what the Lakewood doctors posted in March and April has been proven absolutely right. Yet people will still lump them in together with Trump and Cuomo and say ďall of the doctors were wrong, they donít know anythingĒ.
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
if they are honest then there is no losing trust

you only lose trust when you are being dishonest
You're misunderstanding. There's so many unknowns with Covid and the doctors can't afford to make an announcement based on a *possibility*, since the community has already pushed back on doctors when they tried to close shuls. They are saving their bullets for extraordinary situations and updating the community about a *possible* reinfection doesn't fit in that category.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:35:21 PM
I hear your frustration, but remember that most doctors just want to deal with medicine, not politics. On hot button issues like this one, it can be challenging to find a balance. One public statement, and you get dragged through the mud by anyone who disagrees.
Im not asking them to make a public statement but they dont want to be quoted, there is a difference...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 12:35:29 PM
It doesnt matter practically but I am trying to learn more about the virus

Me too  :)

At this point, I don't think it matters who says what until there are more cases. If someone takes a controversial stance when it makes a practical difference, that's when I would start pushing for names.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 12:36:38 PM
Im not asking them to make a public statement but they dont want to be quoted, there is a difference...
And why do you want his name? So he can be quoted in a public or semi-public forum....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: mochjas on July 10, 2020, 12:39:15 PM
And why do you want his name? So he can be quoted in a public or semi-public forum....
no so I can look up his credentials and see if he is trustworthy.....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 12:40:30 PM
no so I can look up his credentials and see if he is trustworthy.....
Then take it to PM.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 10, 2020, 01:00:09 PM
the guidance on guests isolating would be nice if it was followed as well. no reason for locals to welcome them with open arms in defiance of halachic guidance

I suggest you stop now. I will not respond because the response doesn't belong in this forum. But you're being extremely naÔve.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 10, 2020, 01:03:25 PM
I suggest you stop now. I will not respond because the response doesn't belong in this forum. But you're being extremely naÔve.

The gist of the response being that the rabbonim themselves are only putting out the guidance because of pressure or for CYA purposes, since they are participating and sanctioning events with tons of OOTers?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 10, 2020, 02:27:08 PM
If anyone would like to chip in for baby gifts for Dan and JJ, click here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=32444.msg2290640#msg2290640).
WARNING TO DAN AND JJ: DON'T EVEN THINK OF CLICKING!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on July 10, 2020, 02:44:14 PM
If anyone would like to chip in for baby gifts for Dan and JJ, click here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=32444.msg2290640#msg2290640).
WARNING TO DAN AND JJ: DON'T EVEN THINK OF CLICKING!

Are you getting them a set of these (https://nypost.com/2020/07/06/indian-man-wears-4000-gold-face-mask-during-coronavirus-pandemic/) for the entire family?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 10, 2020, 05:03:22 PM
2 positives today per OCHD
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: grodnoking on July 10, 2020, 05:13:39 PM
2 positives today per OCHD
Just going to say that is could be these false positives we see in all the people with antibodies. (Dead cells or what not, no one is sure).
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 05:18:49 PM
Just going to say that is could be these false positives we see in all the people with antibodies. (Dead cells or what not, no one is sure).
I wish Dr. Friedman would make his tracker public. (I understand why he can't/won't.)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 10, 2020, 07:01:54 PM
I wish Dr. Friedman would make his tracker public. (I understand why he can't/won't.)
He is not seeing anything that would suggest alarming numbers
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 10, 2020, 07:02:48 PM
He is not seeing anything that would suggest alarming numbers
Yup. I've heard the same - that's why I'd wish we'd have access to it instead of relying on hearsay and rumors.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 10, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
I suggest you stop now. I will not respond because the response doesn't belong in this forum. But you're being extremely naÔve.
so respond in the medium of your choice
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 12, 2020, 12:02:36 AM
7 new positives since yesterday
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: gozalim on July 12, 2020, 08:06:34 PM
the guidance on guests isolating would be nice if it was followed as well. no reason for locals to welcome them with open arms in defiance of halachic guidance
clarification: this is not a reference to actual actions by anyone specific. described here or otherwise.
let's just say I have a personal thing with theoretical travel bans similar to some other people's thing with theoretical positive pcr test
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on July 12, 2020, 10:30:29 PM
4 positives
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: VacationLover on July 12, 2020, 10:32:50 PM
Close relative in Monsey just tested positive
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 12, 2020, 10:38:11 PM
Close relative in Monsey just tested positive

Any recent travel, or local infection?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: VacationLover on July 12, 2020, 10:47:18 PM
Any recent travel, or local infection?
Did not travel. He has the common cold often and the result was from a rapid test. Blood work will take 4 days to come back. But the urgent care center said that they had 11 positive cases on Friday.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 12, 2020, 11:54:08 PM
Close relative in Monsey just tested positive
olympia?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 12, 2020, 11:55:31 PM
Did not travel. He has the common cold often and the result was from a rapid test. Blood work will take 4 days to come back. But the urgent care center said that they had 11 positive cases on Friday.
Which urgent care?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 13, 2020, 10:01:27 AM
Camp CBY in Lakewood had a counselor test positive for corona on Wednesday, yet they reopened Thursday/Friday. Now another 5 confirmed cases from different bunks. Just wonderful how seriously theyíre taking it. Also makes me wonder how underreported the cases are in Lakewood. Heard someone telling others that thereís a lot of mild corona cases going around, but donít test!! Itís just going to cause another lockdown.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on July 13, 2020, 10:08:57 AM
Camp CBY in Lakewood had a counselor test positive for corona on Wednesday, yet they reopened Thursday/Friday. Now another 5 confirmed cases from different bunks. Just wonderful how seriously theyíre taking it. Also makes me wonder how underreported the cases are in Lakewood. Heard someone telling others that thereís a lot of mild corona cases going around, but donít test!! Itís just going to cause another lockdown.
They actually did not re-open, they closed Friday. They are closed this week.From what I understand the parents from deal all tested their kids and they were at least five asymptomatic positives maybe more So there is at least some prevalence in deal..
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 13, 2020, 10:13:16 AM
They actually did not re-open, they closed Friday. They are closed this week.From what I understand the parents from deal all tested their kids and they were at least five asymptomatic positives maybe more...

There are kids in Lakewood as well. They allowed all the exposed campers back in camp Thursday, and supposedly Shanik was behind it. I can say first hand that Shanik had nothing to do with it, I called his office, and he said to keep an exposed kid isolated. I didnít ask about the rest of the camp but I highly doubt he said to resume camp as usual based on how strict he was.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 13, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
Heard someone telling others that thereís a lot of mild corona cases going around, but donít test!! Itís just going to cause another lockdown.
There are 2 ways of reading this.

1. That people are saying not to test because that will cause a lockdown
2. People are saying not to test! These people are going to cause another lockdown

The second choice is true. The first may be as well, but they would be very wrong. It is the people who are not stopping it when they can who are going to cause another lockdown! BRAINS, PEOPLE!!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 13, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
Camp CBY in Lakewood had a counselor test positive for corona on Wednesday, yet they reopened Thursday/Friday. Now another 5 confirmed cases from different bunks. Just wonderful how seriously theyíre taking it. Also makes me wonder how underreported the cases are in Lakewood. Heard someone telling others that thereís a lot of mild corona cases going around, but donít test!! Itís just going to cause another lockdown.
Penny wise, pound foolish. The ostrich behavior at this point in the pandemic is inexcusable.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 13, 2020, 10:21:11 AM
There are 2 ways of reading this.

1. That people are saying not to test because that will cause a lockdown
2. People are saying not to test! These people are going to cause another lockdown

The second choice is true. The first may be as well, but they would be very wrong. It is the people who are not stopping it when they can who are going to cause another lockdown! BRAINS, PEOPLE!!

Unfortunately itís the first option. Someone said this in a group chat, my wife read it aloud I almost hit the floor. I really hope itís not a common sentiment.
Title: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 13, 2020, 10:25:57 AM
Unfortunately itís the first option. Someone said this in a group chat, my wife read it aloud I almost hit the floor. I really hope itís not a common sentiment.
The "the hospitals killed people, it's not really dangerous now, it's all politics, there's herd immunity, et. al." sentiment is the common one in Lakewood. Doesn't take much of a leap to get to "don't test".


(When I mentioned possible lingering effects to someone, he said - "it's all psychological, it's not real", as if somehow that makes it better.)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 13, 2020, 10:55:52 AM
Camp CBY in Lakewood had a counselor test positive for corona on Wednesday, yet they reopened Thursday/Friday. Now another 5 confirmed cases from different bunks. Just wonderful how seriously theyíre taking it. Also makes me wonder how underreported the cases are in Lakewood. Heard someone telling others that thereís a lot of mild corona cases going around, but donít test!! Itís just going to cause another lockdown.
Other than the part about reinfection thereís nothing surprising in what he said. Kind of like the baal shem stories- if you believe everything ditchek says you are a fool, but if you donít believe it could have happened...

People are confusing herd immunity with eradication. Itís a fact that not every single person, even in the hardest hit communities has had the virus and is immune, especially those who took strict precautions. Thereís no magic- if a stream of infected people coming from Florida, California, Israel etc. circulate in Lakewood and other communities, there will be some who get infected. The question is if it can lead to a massive outbreak, or if there is sufficient herd immunity to prevent secondary waves that continue to spread throughout the community, and we can expect a limited number of positives that remain fairly limited as people come out of quarantine and relax precautions. I believe the latter is true in Lakewood but the coming weeks should provide an answer.
I think we can say that there is fairly widespread exposure at this time so the question of herd immunity should be answered fairly soon. At this point I would think some added vigilance would be reasonable, particularly among those who never experienced specific symptoms such as loss of smell the first time around and of course among the immunocompromised.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 13, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
I think we can say that there is fairly widespread exposure at this time so the question of herd immunity should be answered fairly soon. At this point I would think some added vigilance would be reasonable, particularly among those who never experienced specific symptoms such as loss of smell the first time around and of course among the immunocompromised.
Based on my informal surveys of people in Lakewood, that's a huge portion of the community. 
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 13, 2020, 09:13:28 PM
Many recent Jewish positives in Deal in the past few days.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 13, 2020, 09:25:09 PM
Many recent Jewish positives in Deal in the past few days.

Did you see it reflected in the Monmouth county numbers?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 13, 2020, 09:46:32 PM
Havenít been keeping up with those numbers
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 13, 2020, 10:00:23 PM
Havenít been keeping up with those numbers

Just found the numbers - new cases in last 7 days:

Deal: 1 case (38)
Eatontown: 13 cases (326)
Long Branch: 3 cases (640)
Ocean: 3 cases (379)
West Long Branch: -1 case (77)

19 new cases.

For whatever reason, the new cases are not getting confirmed in the most concentrated Jewish areas, and practically no cases anywhere.
https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/page.aspx?Id=5017
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 13, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
Just found the numbers - new cases in last 7 days:

Deal: 1 case (38)
Eatontown: 13 cases (326)
Long Branch: 3 cases (640)
Ocean: 3 cases (379)
West Long Branch: -1 case (77)

19 new cases.

For whatever reason, the new cases are not getting confirmed in the most concentrated Jewish areas, and practically no cases anywhere.
https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/page.aspx?Id=5017
maybe they're really from brooklyn
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 13, 2020, 10:03:30 PM
Just found the numbers - new cases in last 7 days:

Deal: 1 case (38)
Eatontown: 13 cases (326)
Long Branch: 3 cases (640)
Ocean: 3 cases (379)
West Long Branch: -1 case (77)

19 new cases.

For whatever reason, the new cases are not getting confirmed in the most concentrated Jewish areas, and practically no cases anywhere.
https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/page.aspx?Id=5017 (https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/page.aspx?Id=5017)
Are they Brooklyn residents, and their results are being attributed to their place of residence?


ETA: @avromie7 beat me to it
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 13, 2020, 10:07:07 PM
Just found the numbers - new cases in last 7 days:

Deal: 1 case (38)
Eatontown: 13 cases (326)
Long Branch: 3 cases (640)
Ocean: 3 cases (379)
West Long Branch: -1 case (77)

19 new cases.

For whatever reason, the new cases are not getting confirmed in the most concentrated Jewish areas, and practically no cases anywhere.
https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/page.aspx?Id=5017
I donít know but the numbers I am hearing are more than all of those new numbers combined.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 13, 2020, 10:08:16 PM
I donít know but the numbers I am hearing are more than all of those new numbers combined.
How many?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 13, 2020, 10:20:12 PM
maybe they're really from brooklyn

If I had to guess most if not all are from Brooklyn
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: cmey on July 14, 2020, 11:40:49 PM
Heard Lakewoodís stared getting meshulachim to test. Supposedly a few tested positive so they picked up and went right over to Monsey....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 15, 2020, 09:47:17 PM
Just found the numbers - new cases in last 7 days:

Deal: 1 case (38)
Eatontown: 13 cases (326)
Long Branch: 3 cases (640)
Ocean: 3 cases (379)
West Long Branch: -1 case (77)

19 new cases.

For whatever reason, the new cases are not getting confirmed in the most concentrated Jewish areas, and practically no cases anywhere.
https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/page.aspx?Id=5017
Bunch of new cases in Eatontown and Ocean today.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: rs242 on July 15, 2020, 10:47:18 PM
I didnít see it mentioned. But the case last week of the guy that got reinfected ended up being a negative when they sent it for the lab test.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 16, 2020, 11:42:21 AM
At this point itís clear that although the virus numbers are spiking many hotspots the death rate is nothing compared to what we saw in New York. From what Iím hearing this may be due to better treatment protocols but I would love to hear some of your perspectives on this. When this was brought up a month ago some people said it was too early but at this point I think there is a real difference in the death rate.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 16, 2020, 12:03:54 PM
At this point itís clear that although the virus numbers are spiking many hotspots the death rate is nothing compared to what we saw in New York. From what Iím hearing this may be due to better treatment protocols but I would love to hear some of your perspectives on this. When this was brought up a month ago some people said it was too early but at this point I think there is a real difference in the death rate.
Dr. Griffin gave 4 possible reasons for this, on This Week in Virology. #638, July 12
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-638/

Why are case numbers rising, but not the death rate?
1. Younger people being infected, and they have a lower death rate.
2. Doctors learned how to better manage patients Ė delay intubation, proning, steroids, anticoagulation.
3. Stopped the removal of patients from hospital to nursing homes and required frequent testing there, slowing transmission to those most likely to die.
4. Takes time to die. So we probably will see an uptick in deaths soon.  Rates of new deaths are now over 60,000, he expects death rate of over 1000 next week.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 16, 2020, 12:10:00 PM
4. Takes time to die. So we probably will see an uptick in deaths soon.  Rates of new deaths are now over 60,000, he expects death rate of over 1000 next week.
The bulk of deaths I saw by the elderly during the height of NYC was 5 days after showing symptoms
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 16, 2020, 12:16:54 PM
The bulk of deaths I saw by the elderly during the height of NYC was 5 days after showing symptoms

Deaths aren't reported immediately, for example I reviewed Florida deaths reported on July 11th (IIRC) and 30 out of 120 death died in July, most died mid/end June, some as early as April. I believe there's an average of 2-3 week reporting lag.

Here's an interesting article on the same topic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/second-coronavirus-death-surge/614122/
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 16, 2020, 01:05:34 PM
Deaths aren't reported immediately, for example I reviewed Florida deaths reported on July 11th (IIRC) and 30 out of 120 death died in July, most died mid/end June, some as early as April. I believe there's an average of 2-3 week reporting lag.

Here's an interesting article on the same topic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/second-coronavirus-death-surge/614122/
New York also had a big lag in reporting dentists

New York only asked nursing homes to report the deaths on April 17. Until then goes this were not even counted.

Unless the number of infected people in New York was so much higher Then we think therefore more people died. Otherwise the current death rate is something to be optimistic about. Not that we shouldnít be careful etc. Iím just pointing out that we are not seeing the same devastation as we saw in New York.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on July 16, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
New York also had a big lag in reporting deaths

New York only asked nursing homes to report the deaths on April 17. Until then goes this were not even counted.

Unless the number of infected people in New York was so much higher Then we think therefore more people died. Otherwise the current death rate is something to be optimistic about. Not that we shouldnít be careful etc. Iím just pointing out that we are not seeing the same devastation as we saw in New York.

FTFY :D

I wasn't saying that Florida is special in the death reporting lag, every state has a lag and it needs to be taken into consideration.
Re: NY, there were a lot more infections than reported, and yes that does bring down the death rate. There are a lot of reasons why Florida will be better from a death rate standpoint, but from the way things look there still will be way too many preventable deaths.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on July 16, 2020, 09:04:16 PM
At this point itís clear that although the virus numbers are spiking many hotspots the death rate is nothing compared to what we saw in New York. From what Iím hearing this may be due to better treatment protocols but I would love to hear some of your perspectives on this. When this was brought up a month ago some people said it was too early but at this point I think there is a real difference in the death rate.


It's not comparable to NY for a bunch of reasons. Virtually all the circumstances are different, especially the treatments.  That said, it's way too early to decide that we know anything about the death rate of the other hotspots. In FL alone, they are looking at a minimum of 3000 deaths (announced) in the next 30 days, and possibly triple that. I'll post the numbers later.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on July 16, 2020, 09:23:51 PM

It's not comparable to NY for a bunch of reasons. Virtually all the circumstances are different, especially the treatments.  That said, it's way too early to decide that we know anything about the death rate of the other hotspots. In FL alone, they are looking at a minimum of 3000 deaths (announced) in the next 30 days, and possibly triple that. I'll post the numbers later.
Thank you maybe I spoke too soon take a look at Texas numbers today
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: YitzyS on July 19, 2020, 11:08:06 AM
From Hefkervelt  (http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2020/07/motzei-shabbos-july-19-lakewood-news.html)today:

Physician: In the past 2-3 weeks the Lakewood Kehilla has seen several new cases of COVID-19 illness, now about 20 cases. Most, but not all, have been connected to infected individuals coming to Lakewood from Florida. In addition, it is reported that the Deal, NJ community now has some 40 new cases of illness since last week. These cases are connected to infected individuals who have come to Deal from Brooklyn.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on July 19, 2020, 04:43:22 PM
How many?
I heard 40 cases in Deal but didnít want to put out a number that wasnít confirmed. 0 cases in Lakewood yesterday and 1 today per OCHD.

(https://i.postimg.cc/506cqZMk/5-F284-A02-8-E90-4962-BD81-63-D9-C0-E15924.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: biobook on July 19, 2020, 05:53:53 PM
Do you know what they mean by "connected to"?  Both of these might be "connected":
15 people who got infected in FL, and then were tested in Lakewood.
2 people who got infected in FL, and then transmitted it to 13 people who never left Lakewood.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 19, 2020, 06:17:27 PM
Do you know what they mean by "connected to"?  Both of these might be "connected":
15 people who got infected in FL, and then were tested in Lakewood.
2 people who got infected in FL, and then transmitted it to 13 people who never left Lakewood.
Probably somewhere in the middle. I would assume most of those who got it from people who brought it back from FL are immediate family members.

The good news in that is there is (almost) no community spread in lakewood. In other words the rate of transmission is well below 1.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Probably somewhere in the middle. I would assume most of those who got it from people who brought it back from FL are immediate family members.

The good news in that is there is (almost) no community spread in lakewood. In other words the rate of transmission is well below 1.
There was a report of one person who was in FL spreading in his shul. Much of the low transmission rate may be due to the proactive contact tracing by CHEMED which seems to be BH effective.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 19, 2020, 06:21:44 PM
There was a report of one person who was in FL spreading in his shul. Much of the low transmission rate may be due to the proactive contact tracing by CHEMED which seems to be BH effective.
Just heard of someone who came home from FL this past Friday and went to shul on shabbos.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on July 19, 2020, 06:23:13 PM
Much of the low transmission rate may be due to the proactive contact tracing by CHEMED which seems to be BH effective.
That's good news
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on July 19, 2020, 06:25:51 PM
Just heard of someone who came home from FL this past Friday and went to shul on shabbos.
BRAINS PEOPLE!! It the the yoyos like this who will give the power hungry the ammo they need to restart lockdowns.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 19, 2020, 06:27:27 PM
There was a report of one person who was in FL spreading in his shul. Much of the low transmission rate may be due to the proactive contact tracing by CHEMED which seems to be BH effective.
And hopefully people are actually going to their doctors to be tested etc. instead of ostriching and trying to "avoid" quarantine and ensuing lockdown...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yesitsme on July 26, 2020, 12:13:08 PM
Quote
Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Yes I do, a ruv in a shul
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on July 26, 2020, 12:50:37 PM
Yes I do, a ruv in a shul
Location? Recently?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikeoracle on August 12, 2020, 05:05:10 PM
Hi,
I want to share my story as a data point and maybe it will help someone (I may xpost for visibility);

On Monday 8/10 I tested positive for Covid. It seems pretty clear that I was infected at a simcha last week, either at the Aufruf or at the Wedding last Tuesday 8/4. I started not feeling well on Thursday morning but thought it was just allergies or a cold, which i deal with often. I felt a little bit better friday night and shabbos morning and went to a small local minyan in my neighborhood, but by shabbos afternoon I was in bed.
I only found out on Monday 8/10 that there were a lot of people not feeling well from that simcha and testing positive, so I quickly went to get tested (in Friendly Urgent Care). They told me there were a few positive tests within that last hour, one of them I know is a relative of mine who was also at the wedding. They indicated that there seems to be at least 2 or more wedding this past week that are at the center of a bunch of positive cases.
I quickly notified whoever I was in contact with, but so for unfortunately at least 3 people got infected by me. This is by far the worst feeling for me, worse than actually being sick. I wish everyone would be as quick to alert people as I was- as I would likely have been able to avoid infecting anyone, and would have taken precautions as soon as I felt sick.

There is definitely an outbreak right now, which will hopefully subside quickly if people take precautions, it just pains me that people didnt feel "shame" or whatever it is, that stops them from reacting responsibly right away.
This is affecting people in Lakewood, Monsey and Boro park (and catskills of course) who were at the is wedding, and some of the other weddings that were affected (infected?).

If you are a high risk person, you should be extra careful for the next little while (at minimum).


p.s. it is extra frustrating as my family was so careful for such a long time. I refused to daven indoors, for a long time and was made fun of because of that.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yuneeq on August 12, 2020, 05:28:27 PM
Hi,
I want to share my story as a data point and maybe it will help someone (I may xpost for visibility);

On Monday 8/10 I tested positive for Covid. It seems pretty clear that I was infected at a simcha last week, either at the Aufruf or at the Wedding last Tuesday 8/4. I started not feeling well on Thursday morning but thought it was just allergies or a cold, which i deal with often. I felt a little bit better friday night and shabbos morning and went to a small local minyan in my neighborhood, but by shabbos afternoon I was in bed.
I only found out on Monday 8/10 that there were a lot of people not feeling well from that simcha and testing positive, so I quickly went to get tested (in Friendly Urgent Care). They told me there were a few positive tests within that last hour, one of them I know is a relative of mine who was also at the wedding. They indicated that there seems to be at least 2 or more wedding this past week that are at the center of a bunch of positive cases.
I quickly notified whoever I was in contact with, but so for unfortunately at least 3 people got infected by me. This is by far the worst feeling for me, worse than actually being sick. I wish everyone would be as quick to alert people as I was- as I would likely have been able to avoid infecting anyone, and would have taken precautions as soon as I felt sick.

There is definitely an outbreak right now, which will hopefully subside quickly if people take precautions, it just pains me that people didnt feel "shame" or whatever it is, that stops them from reacting responsibly right away.
This is affecting people in Lakewood, Monsey and Boro park (and catskills of course) who were at the is wedding, and some of the other weddings that were affected (infected?).

If you are a high risk person, you should be extra careful for the next little while (at minimum).


p.s. it is extra frustrating as my family was so careful for such a long time. I refused to daven indoors, for a long time and was made fun of because of that.

Thanks for sharing, it must be hard.
This wedding took place in Lakewood?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikeoracle on August 12, 2020, 05:57:29 PM
Thanks for sharing, it must be hard.
This wedding took place in Lakewood?
the wedding was in boro park. At the urgent care they mentioned that there was also a Monsey wedding they were monitoring
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Jellybelly on August 12, 2020, 06:10:37 PM
Are people that weíre at the wedding getting called to be careful?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ExGingi on August 12, 2020, 06:38:16 PM
the wedding was in boro park. At the urgent care they mentioned that there was also a Monsey wedding they were monitoring

Were there out-of-towners (as in people from current hotspots) at the wedding?

Did you or your family get it during the Purim outbreak.

I hope you have a Refuah SHLEIMA soon, and end up with some good antibodies, because it doesn't look like this thing is going away, there will be outbreaks, and those with antibodies will probably fare much better.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on August 12, 2020, 07:11:34 PM
Were there out-of-towners (as in people from current hotspots) at the wedding?

Did you or your family get it during the Purim outbreak.

I hope you have a Refuah SHLEIMA soon, and end up with some good antibodies, because it doesn't look like this thing is going away, there will be outbreaks, and those with antibodies will probably fare much better.
It will never be totally eradicated from the human race.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikeoracle on August 12, 2020, 08:23:03 PM
Were there out-of-towners (as in people from current hotspots) at the wedding?

Did you or your family get it during the Purim outbreak.

I hope you have a Refuah SHLEIMA soon, and end up with some good antibodies, because it doesn't look like this thing is going away, there will be outbreaks, and those with antibodies will probably fare much better.
I don't have first hand knowledge, but I hear that out may have originated from someone that came from a hot spot state.

We did not get it back then, except for my 6 year old son who tested positive in March.

Thank you, and that's exactly what I'm hopeful for, a little peace of mind with some antibodies. The hardest part for me is knowing all the other families I affected so far. Our kids are devastated to have to miss day camp after being couped up for so many months, and be stuck home again.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on August 12, 2020, 08:24:58 PM
Were there out-of-towners (as in people from current hotspots) at the wedding?

Did you or your family get it during the Purim outbreak.

I hope you have a Refuah SHLEIMA soon, and end up with some good antibodies, because it doesn't look like this thing is going away, there will be outbreaks, and those with antibodies will probably fare much better.
Lakewood isn't brooklyn. There are huge amounts of people in lakewood who were not exposed.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on August 17, 2020, 04:54:30 PM
https://crownheights.info/chabad-news/712279/mountain-lodge-estates-under-lockdown-as-isolated-covid-case-causes-mini-outbreak/

Quote
8/17/2020

To the residents of MLE.

Over the past 10 days we have working together with others expert in the field of public health, studying the situation at MLE, and trying to devise guidelines for the safe management of what appears to be a mini outbreak there.

Initially we gave special consideration re quarantine to those who had previously been exposed to the virus. However given the most recent case we need to relook at the facts on the ground and attempt to make appropriate adjustments. Two of the adults involved, clearly seem to be cases of reinfection. Hopefully their illness will be light, but the possibility now exists that,

Even those that have had the illness may now be incubating again, and themselves become infectious, as antibody protection has waned.

We may be looking at a variant strain of the virus.

Children, who may not be ill, could possibly be sharing this virus, and bringing it home.

We sincerely hope that this whole episode will blow over very soon, as it may. However until that becomes clear, the following precautions would be appropriate.

In the best situation, there would be no coming and going from MLE, ensuring that the outbreak stays local, and is not exported.

Those who must leave should be particularly cautious, to observe social distancing and mask use. Most importantly, visits to elderly parents should be delayed. The same applies to simchas and other events where social distancing breaks down.

Within MLE, mitigation should be carefully practiced, including outdoor minyanim, preferably porch minyanim. The Shabbas kiddush avoided (packing food in individual servings, is not effective in stopping the exchange of respiratory secretions).

Children should not attend camp both inside and outside of MLE.

Anyone who feels ill in any way should isolate and be tested immediately.

There is no perfect solution, and any attempt to shut this mini-outbreak down will require some hardship.The next few days will be telling as to where this is going, but having experienced the effects of this virus, we believe that abundant caution is appropriate at this time.

Eli Rosen and the Gedaliah society

Together with Dr Avi Rosenberg.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on August 17, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
https://crownheights.info/chabad-news/712279/mountain-lodge-estates-under-lockdown-as-isolated-covid-case-causes-mini-outbreak/
Something interesting needs to happen in the frum community very soon. These guys have too much time on their hands and too little too complain about.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on August 17, 2020, 05:34:24 PM
Something interesting needs to happen in the frum community very soon. These guys have too much time on their hands and too little too complain about.

Who exactly are you talking about? I know you can't be referring to the doctors...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on August 18, 2020, 10:19:19 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/08/covid-19-update-39.html
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 18, 2020, 05:10:07 PM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/08/covid-19-update-39.html (https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/08/covid-19-update-39.html)

WHOA!

Quote
What is worrisome (beyond the objective acceleration of cases) is that the recent infections include the following details:

    Two cases of presumed reinfection. This involves people who were ill with Covid several months ago, and completely recovered. Both had antibodies but upon recent retesting had ďlostĒ their antibodies, and now, after  being exposed to Covid, these people became sick again and tested positive. These 2 new cases are so clear in their course as to take reinfection from a probable phenomenon to a reality (albeit difficult to prove as we don't have initial viral samples to compare). At this time the symptoms appear relatively mild compared with the initial illness.  How widespread will this phenomenon  become? How severe will reinfection be? Will these reinfected individuals themselves be infectious? These pressing questions are all without answers at this time. We as a community unfortunately were the first to suffer wide community spread and are ahead of other neighborhoods on the timeline. As such we are a living laboratory with very little precedent to go on, but the above must ring some alarm bells.
    A recent case here in Crown Heights that was acquired via community spread - that is, he had travelled nowhere, did not have obvious contact with people from hot-spot states, was not at crowded simchas (all of our known risk factors implicated in recent cases), and yet got quite ill with first time COVID. The implication here is that there is infectious virus present in the community at this time.
    At least one or two infections are in people who have never previously been ill, but who have previously been extensively exposed  while helping take care of others in their family at home who had been ill. This is worrisome because we had hoped that such a high degree of exposure in the home would mean that their body ďsaw the virusĒ in some unmeasurable way, and would recognise it again with an immunological response, but this is now called into question.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: myi on August 18, 2020, 07:46:26 PM
  Now that all the sleep away camps are over, and simchas BH are in full swing, seems there's alot more public gatherings and unfortunately many more reports of ppl being diagnosed with C-19.

   It's not easy for everyone to stay cooped up for 6 months.
  But bh the strain of the virus that's around now doesn't seem to be the same as it was months back, at least it doesn't seem that way.

 Let's hope that with all the antibodies,plasma and different medications that supposedly work, will keep the virus packed away.
    It's unfortunate to all those who were lost due to C-19.
 Let's hope there will be an end very soon to this pandemic!
   
   Shall we not make simchas? Or make them but no dancing? Or make everyone wear a mask?
   There's no easy and comfortable answer.

 And now all or most yeshivahs plan to reopen! We can only hope and daven for the very best outcome.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on August 18, 2020, 08:13:44 PM
  Now that all the sleep away camps are over, and simchas BH are in full swing, seems there's alot more public gatherings and unfortunately many more reports of ppl being diagnosed with C-19.

   It's not easy for everyone to stay cooped up for 6 months.
  But bh the strain of the virus that's around now doesn't seem to be the same as it was months back, at least it doesn't seem that way.

 Let's hope that with all the antibodies,plasma and different medications that supposedly work, will keep the virus packed away.
    It's unfortunate to all those who were lost due to C-19.
 Let's hope there will be an end very soon to this pandemic!
   
   Shall we not make simchas? Or make them but no dancing? Or make everyone wear a mask?
   There's no easy and comfortable answer.

 And now all or most yeshivahs plan to reopen! We can only hope and daven for the very best outcome.
I like the positivity.

I think at the very least we should destigmatize mask wearing.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: myi on August 18, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
I like the positivity.

I think at the very least we should destigmatize mask wearing.
I agree with that, but it's not easy going 6 months wearing a mask day in, Day out!
   Unfortunately it became the new Norm!
 
  But then Again that's the very least we can do to prevent further spread of the virus.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: NTorch on August 20, 2020, 11:01:59 AM
   And now all or most yeshivahs plan to reopen! We SHOULD hope and daven for the very best outcome.

FTFY
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: myi on August 20, 2020, 11:06:18 AM
FTFY
Amein!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on August 25, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
https://hamodia.com/2020/08/25/new-wave-covid-19-cases-hits-brooklyn-communities/

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPv3HH1r/9-A5-A9-E93-030-B-4-A87-BBCF-C14-E473-CE0-D7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Euclid on August 25, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
https://hamodia.com/2020/08/25/new-wave-covid-19-cases-hits-brooklyn-communities/

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPv3HH1r/9-A5-A9-E93-030-B-4-A87-BBCF-C14-E473-CE0-D7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

According to @yaakov35 it was confirmed to be the flu, not Covid.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on August 25, 2020, 10:42:29 AM
Looks like covid is finally catching up with frum Cleveland :(
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yaakov35 on August 25, 2020, 10:43:41 AM
According to @yaakov35 it was confirmed to be the flu, not Covid.
That's what's going around on whatsapp
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 25, 2020, 10:47:16 AM
https://hamodia.com/2020/08/25/new-wave-covid-19-cases-hits-brooklyn-communities/


19?!?! ONE MORE TO FULL LOCKDOWN!
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 25, 2020, 10:47:37 AM
That's what's going around on whatsapp
So then it must be true.....
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: ari3 on August 25, 2020, 03:44:04 PM
So then it must be true.....
as true as the anonymous source on the internet that said he was sick with corona
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on August 25, 2020, 04:09:15 PM
as true as the anonymous source on the internet that said he was sick with corona
Wasn't that Abraham Lincoln?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 25, 2020, 04:13:38 PM
as true as the anonymous source on the internet that said he was sick with corona
Yup
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on August 25, 2020, 04:44:55 PM
Wasn't that Winston Churchill?
FTFY
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on August 25, 2020, 04:45:32 PM
Looks like covid is finally catching up with frum Cleveland :(
Are you surprised?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yitzgar on August 25, 2020, 06:04:11 PM
https://hamodia.com/2020/08/25/new-wave-covid-19-cases-hits-brooklyn-communities/

(https://i.postimg.cc/TPv3HH1r/9-A5-A9-E93-030-B-4-A87-BBCF-C14-E473-CE0-D7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Sounds more like he brought it to Cleveland, didn't catch it there. Already a number of cases traced to that melava malka...
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on August 26, 2020, 10:11:52 AM
Sounds more like he brought it to Cleveland, didn't catch it there. Already a number of cases traced to that melava malka...

Making claims like this, is at best Lashon Hara.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 26, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
That's what's going around on whatsapp
How do you know this? This Chilu Posen of mezamrim. He sent me a text on Thursday last week that he tested positive for carona. Heard he was doing a bit better yesterday but needs our tefillos for a refua sheleima
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yitzgar on August 26, 2020, 01:34:19 PM

Making claims like this, is at best Lashon Hara.
I don't see why. Nobody did anything wrong. Just a question of where it originated
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on August 30, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Iíve been weirdly sick now for a week+, no fever but chills and sweats, sore throat, lethargy and fatigue, upset stomach, and sniffles. Negative PCR test.

My local urgent care wonít test me for the flu, which is quite upsetting. My primary care physician offers COVID hours that donít work for me, so I canít go there. Really wondering if itís flu/strep, a confirmation would be nice.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2020, 11:13:58 AM
Iíve been weirdly sick now for a week+, no fever but chills and sweats, sore throat, lethargy and fatigue, upset stomach, and sniffles. Negative PCR test.

My local urgent care wonít test me for the flu, which is quite upsetting. My primary care physician offers COVID hours that donít work for me, so I canít go there. Really wondering if itís flu/strep, a confirmation would be nice.
Life hack: Do your own strep tests
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: EliJelly on August 30, 2020, 11:26:54 AM
Life hack: Do your own strep tests
Would be great! Ever since dreaming how I can obtain that myself. Mind sharing the process? I assume you refer to the rapid test, but still would be a major help.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on August 30, 2020, 11:33:36 AM
Would be great! Ever since dreaming how I can obtain that myself. Mind sharing the process? I assume you refer to the rapid test, but still would be a major help.
Order a kit on amazon and follow instructions.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Mikeoracle on August 30, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
Iíve been weirdly sick now for a week+, no fever but chills and sweats, sore throat, lethargy and fatigue, upset stomach, and sniffles. Negative PCR test.

My local urgent care wonít test me for the flu, which is quite upsetting. My primary care physician offers COVID hours that donít work for me, so I canít go there. Really wondering if itís flu/strep, a confirmation would be nice.
interesting that you're negative, symptoms sound very similar to what I just had when I tested positive.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on August 30, 2020, 11:57:09 AM
Iíve been weirdly sick now for a week+, no fever but chills and sweats, sore throat, lethargy and fatigue, upset stomach, and sniffles. Negative PCR test.

My local urgent care wonít test me for the flu, which is quite upsetting. My primary care physician offers COVID hours that donít work for me, so I canít go there. Really wondering if itís flu/strep, a confirmation would be nice.
Very likely a false negative
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on August 30, 2020, 01:18:51 PM
interesting that you're negative, symptoms sound very similar to what I just had when I tested positive.

My symptoms are much more mild and intermittent than you described.

Iím confused because my PCR is supposed to be 98%+ accurate. They told me they use the Quidel test but my results say EURORealTime.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on August 30, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Very likely a false negative

What do you suggest I do? Why canít it be flu or strep?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: how on August 30, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
What do you suggest I do? Why canít it be flu or strep?
personally I would try to get tested by another lab.

It could be something else but there are so many false PCR tests
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: EliJelly on August 30, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Order a kit on amazon and follow instructions.
Thanks. Didn't know it's an over the counter item.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on August 30, 2020, 05:50:08 PM
What do you suggest I do? Why canít it be flu or strep?
I had that, I had very mild symptoms, went to get tested and the nurse suggested maybe it's strep so she gave a strep test which came back positive. I didn't imagine it would be strep because I haven't gotten strep is years.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yelped on August 30, 2020, 06:04:55 PM
I also just tested positive for strep. Lakewood. Also didn't have it for years.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on August 30, 2020, 06:37:08 PM
Curious how many people testing positive for strep now previously tested positive for Covid.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on August 30, 2020, 07:59:57 PM
Curious how many people testing positive for strep now previously tested positive for Covid.
I tested positive for strep and never tested positive for COVID
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on August 30, 2020, 08:12:45 PM
I tested positive for strep and never tested positive for COVID

Do you think you had it before Pesach, or not at all?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: yelped on August 30, 2020, 09:32:26 PM
Curious how many people testing positive for strep now previously tested positive for Covid.
Didn't test positive for Covid, and never had any symptoms BH.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: sams on August 31, 2020, 12:21:13 AM
My friend has negative covid ,positive strep he was suprised
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on August 31, 2020, 08:16:08 AM
Do you think you had it before Pesach, or not at all?
Not at all, I have no reason to believe I ever got COVID.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on August 31, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
Even though they are very different diseases, both Covid and strep are spread in very similar fashion. I'd be really curious to see how T-cells play a part in people catching a bacterial infection but not a viral one when both are prevalent in the community.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on August 31, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
Even though they are very different diseases, both Covid and strep are spread in very similar fashion. I'd be really curious to see how T-cells play a part in people catching a bacterial infection but not a viral one when both are prevalent in the community.
Here's my theory, I'm sure i've come into contact in the past with strep but it probably just strengthened my immunity to it. Because of the lockdown etc. I didn't come in contact with as many people over the past few months, weakening my immunity to strep so I actually caught it when I came in contact with it.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on August 31, 2020, 01:48:02 PM
Here's my theory, I'm sure i've come into contact in the past with strep but it probably just strengthened my immunity to it. Because of the lockdown etc. I didn't come in contact with as many people over the past few months, weakening my immunity to strep so I actually caught it when I came in contact with it.
I've heard that theory, second- or third-hand, from at least one doctor
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on August 31, 2020, 02:11:55 PM
Here's my theory, I'm sure i've come into contact in the past with strep but it probably just strengthened my immunity to it. Because of the lockdown etc. I didn't come in contact with as many people over the past few months, weakening my immunity to strep so I actually caught it when I came in contact with it.
Heard that from someone who heard it from Shanik. Weíve had strep in the family a couple of times already in the last 2 months.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on August 31, 2020, 02:15:27 PM
Heard that from someone who heard it from Shanik. Weíve had strep in the family a couple of times already in the last 2 months.
And it's worse than usual because every time you cough or blow your nose, everyone around you panics
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on August 31, 2020, 02:18:26 PM
And it's worse than usual because every time you cough or blow your nose, everyone around you panics
To be fair, people donít like catching strep either
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: etech0 on August 31, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
To be fair, people donít like catching strep either
No but after 24h on meds you're not contagious anymore
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on September 01, 2020, 09:40:36 AM
https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=402419
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: avromie7 on September 01, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=402419
The 1 name mentioned for tehillim has nothing to do with corona
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: AsherO on September 01, 2020, 11:18:14 AM
I tested positive for strep and never tested positive for COVID

Thanks for your encouragement to get tested for strep. I tested positive and got antibiotics. I also did another COVID PCR test elsewhere so Iíll be able to conclusively rule that out as well.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Dan on September 01, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Thanks for your encouragement to get tested for strep. I tested positive and got antibiotics. I also did another COVID PCR test elsewhere so Iíll be able to conclusively rule that out as well.
BH
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on September 02, 2020, 03:29:18 PM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-40.html

Quote
the absolute number of cases remains low, however we are having a disturbing increase in the frequency of cases. An additional critical feature is that whereas in July the cases were all those coming from hotspot areas, our recent cases now include a handful which seem to be community spread.

@Yard sale
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Yard sale on September 02, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-40.html

@Yard sale
Handful but not what we want to see
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on September 02, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
Handful but not what we want to see

I believe they have a higher assumed infection rate from the first wave, based on studies they ran. They also have fewer current cases. If CH is seeing community spread with those factors, you have to assume community spread is happening in Lakewood right now. The (more than) doubling of cases also supports that assumption. Whatever actions you were waiting to take until there was community spread should be taken right now.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: SayWhat on September 02, 2020, 05:32:02 PM
I believe they have a higher assumed infection rate from the first wave, based on studies they ran. They also have fewer current cases. If CH is seeing community spread with those factors, you have to assume community spread is happening in Lakewood right now. The (more than) doubling of cases also supports that assumption. Whatever actions you were waiting to take until there was community spread should be taken right now.
It's very unfortunate, but unless people are "dying in the streets" those that are not taking precautions will not change their behavior. I might add that even when people were "dying in the streets" certain communities still had packed stores with no social distancing or masks.   
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: S209 on September 02, 2020, 08:16:07 PM
It's very unfortunate, but unless people are "dying in the streets" those that are not taking precautions will not change their behavior. I might add that even when people were "dying in the streets" certain communities still had packed stores with no social distancing or masks.
Did they suffer disproportionately to those that shut down?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on September 03, 2020, 08:16:45 AM
I believe they have a higher assumed infection rate from the first wave, based on studies they ran. They also have fewer current cases. If CH is seeing community spread with those factors, you have to assume community spread is happening in Lakewood right now. The (more than) doubling of cases also supports that assumption. Whatever actions you were waiting to take until there was community spread should be taken right now.
What are the actions they should take?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on September 03, 2020, 09:55:12 AM
What are the actions they should take?

The precautionary measures they said they'd take when the numbers picked up  when the numbers got higher  when there was evidence of community spread  when the community spread numbers go super high.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Kobe bryent on September 03, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
The precautionary measures they said they'd take when the numbers picked up  when the numbers got higher  when there was evidence of community spread  when the community spread numbers go super high.
And what are those actions?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on September 03, 2020, 11:43:39 AM
And what are those actions?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: Lurker on September 23, 2020, 10:34:24 PM
Something interesting needs to happen in the frum community very soon. These guys have too much time on their hands and too little too complain about.

Current events qualify?
Title: Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
Post by: aygart on September 23, 2020, 10:45:29 PM
Current events qualify?
Based on his previous threshold he may be locked down.