DansDeals.com Forums

DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 Discussion Board => Topic started by: ExGingi on September 09, 2020, 05:36:01 PM

Title: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 09, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
While many Jewish communities have common aspects of Jewish (social) living that probably helped spread COVID-19 back in March and April, I don't know if there's another community like Crown Heights, where hospitality and thousands of guests and visitors from all over the world are the norms.

During the Feb-Apr period it seems like anywhere between 60% and 80% of the community contracted the virus, and by this point everyone was likely exposed in some way or another to it.

In a regular year, there would be hundreds of Bochurim arriving by now, with a few hundred staying for the year in Yeshiva, and hundreds more coming only for Tishrei. And then you would have a few hundred married people coming for Sukkos. This year is different. We will only be able to say in retrospect how so.

About 150 bochurim arrived since late August with the intent of staying in 770 to learn for anywhere between 3 months to a year. A quarantine in CT was arranged for them, and ostensibly they were all tested for COVID-19 upon conclusion of the quarantine before coming to Crown Heights in recent days.

I just heard that apparently some of those that completed the quarantine have now tested positive for COVID-19 in Crown Heights.

This is a developing story.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 09, 2020, 05:54:55 PM
https://anash.org/kvutza-bochurim-to-re-enter-quarantine/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 09, 2020, 05:57:08 PM
https://anash.org/kvutza-bochurim-to-re-enter-quarantine/
Is corornavirus a new strain?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 09, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
While many Jewish communities have common aspects of Jewish (social) living that probably helped spread COVID-19 back in March and April, I don't know if there's another community like Crown Heights, where hospitality and thousands of guests and visitors from all over the world are the norms.

During the Feb-Apr period it seems like anywhere between 60% and 80% of the community contracted the virus, and by this point everyone was likely exposed in some way or another to it.

In a regular year, there would be hundreds of Bochurim arriving by now, with a few hundred staying for the year in Yeshiva, and hundreds more coming only for Tishrei. And then you would have a few hundred married people coming for Sukkos. This year is different. We will only be able to say in retrospect how so.

About 150 bochurim arrived since late August with the intent of staying in 770 to learn for anywhere between 3 months to a year. A quarantine in CT was arranged for them, and ostensibly they were all tested for COVID-19 upon conclusion of the quarantine before coming to Crown Heights in recent days.

I just heard that apparently some of those that completed the quarantine have now tested positive for COVID-19 in Crown Heights.

This is a developing story.
I heard that the tests that they took at the end of quarantine came back today and 1 person had corona

Doesn't seem like anyone of them are going back to quarantine
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shwarmabob on September 09, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
don't they suppose to quarantine in 1414?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 09, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
don't they suppose to quarantine in 1414?
No, they are only let into 1414 of they have proof they had it/antibodies.
They are staying elsewhere
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 10, 2020, 12:21:00 AM


During the Feb-Apr period it seems like anywhere between 60% and 80% of the community contracted the virus, and by this point everyone was likely exposed in some way or another to it.


That's a ridiculously high number. I'm not a math guy, but the Gedalia Society was quite extensive and I don't think you get anywhere close to that number.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 10, 2020, 10:23:39 AM
That's a ridiculously high number. I'm not a math guy, but the Gedalia Society was quite extensive and I don't think you get anywhere close to that number.
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/05/covid-19-update28.html
70% of 25-65 y/o
Quote
Responses to the survey continue to come in, and any numbers below will be updated as we obtain new information and as we continue to analyze. Based on the responses so far, it would seem that a little over 70% of those in the age group 25-65 has been sick with a COVID-like illness, while only approximately 55% of those above age 65 have reported a COVID-like illness.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 10, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/05/covid-19-update28.html
70% of 25-65 y/o
And what percent fits into that demographic?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 10, 2020, 10:36:55 AM
And what percent fits into that demographic?
dunno.
In general, that post is probably the most coherent attempt at quantifying herd/heard immunity here
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 10, 2020, 01:12:35 PM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/05/covid-19-update28.html
70% of 25-65 y/o

That's including anyone who reported any symptom at all, of which there are many, including some as vague as "fatigue". The survey also is more likely to be taken by people with symptoms than those without.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on September 10, 2020, 02:24:36 PM
That's including anyone who reported any symptom at all, of which there are many, including some as vague as "fatigue". The survey also is more likely to be taken by people with symptoms than those without.
I wonder about this. People who haven’t had symptoms are perhaps more likely to care enough to participate as they are presumably more vulnerable.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on September 11, 2020, 03:10:28 PM
https://collive.com/coronavirus-update-41-770-is-currently-high-risk-for-covid/

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 12, 2020, 08:21:21 PM
770 tried having everyone wear a mask
Friday night 3/4 had a mask one
Shabbos day about half
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 12, 2020, 10:14:52 PM
770 tried having everyone wear a mask
Friday night 3/4 had a mask one
Shabbos day about half

Mincha/maariv was about 10%-20%
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on September 12, 2020, 10:36:01 PM
770 tried having everyone wear a mask
Friday night 3/4 had a mask one
Shabbos day about half
Mincha/maariv was about 10%-20%

Herd immunity, or herd mentality?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Cholentfresser on September 12, 2020, 10:47:44 PM
Anyone here in 770 for maariv tonight? I hear they announced something about that people shouldn't come for slichos, or they should do it outside...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lev g on September 12, 2020, 11:52:18 PM
Anyone here in 770 for maariv tonight? I hear they announced something about that people shouldn't come for slichos, or they should do it outside...

They encouraged people to do slichos outside and that there will be speakers outside so you can hear the chazan, but if you want to enter you must wear a mask.

That’s basically in short what they said
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Cholentfresser on September 13, 2020, 12:53:51 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 13, 2020, 01:47:28 AM
Mincha/maariv was about 10%-20%
That was because they ran out of masks
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 01:56:22 AM
That was because they ran out of masks

And what's the excuse for slichos?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 13, 2020, 02:01:21 AM
And what's the excuse for slichos?
Either the same, even though people could have brought from home, it's not the same when it's in front of you as you walk in.
Or, momentum was lost by the mincha/maariv.
But a lot of people are willing to comply if it's the norm, and even more people will wear if there is "peer pressure" to wear one, and there will always be the people that no matter what, they won't want to wear one
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on September 13, 2020, 02:03:56 AM
From kratzs status seemed full but not packed as usual. Barely anyone wearing masks.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Cholentfresser on September 13, 2020, 02:05:42 AM
Nice crowd outside as well
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on September 13, 2020, 03:47:09 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-42.html

Quote

Over the past 24 hours we have become aware of multiple new cases of COVID here in Crown Heights, both in residents and those from out of town. This represents for the first time since Purim a very worrisome surge in new cases.  It is critical that those at risk for serious illness remain protected.

It is time to restart outdoor and porch minyanim, to the extent feasible. Particularly for those above age 60 or with underlying health issues (including obesity).

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 08:27:04 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-42.html

The response from leadership in CH has been very impressive: full-throated support for the doctors from the Rabbonim, and encouragement for the doctors to be brutally honest. The compliance from the general public has been less than awesome. Makes you wonder if members' theories about Lakewood's official stance are correct, in that they are tempering the guidance in accordance with what they feel the public will actually comply with.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 10:08:44 AM
At the beginning the community response was amazing in every way.
It's very difficult to ask anyone to follow rules when there is so much hypocrisy vs senselessness. People end up throwing out ALL the rules. You can hardly blame them.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 10:13:49 AM
At the beginning the community response was amazing in every way.
It's very difficult to ask anyone to follow rules when there is so much hypocrisy vs senselessness. People end up throwing out ALL the rules. You can hardly blame them.

There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 10:14:38 AM
At the beginning the community response was amazing in every way.
It's very difficult to ask anyone to follow rules when there is so much hypocrisy vs senselessness. People end up throwing out ALL the rules. You can hardly blame them.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 10:46:10 AM
There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000
But more relevant; the only form of blameless that this virus recognizes is peaceful protests
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 11:52:24 AM
There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.


You're saying this is about "ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust", but I would like to take issue with that.

Not that I don't trust Dr. Rosen, but unfortunately the way things are unfolding, between the Doctros, Rabbonim, Gabboim of 770, and any other self-proclaimed or otherwise assigned the title of "community leader" or askan, I see nothing but "a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic".

Think about that carefully. What changed? Why is there an "urgent" need to "enforce" masks in 770 (which the Gabboim have no intention of doing, other than paying increased lip-service as compared to what they previously did) as opposed to a week ago, or a month ago? Is it only because of an influx of a couple of hundred bochurim that all of the sudden we wake up an decide that it's right to have some protective measure? Did this come by surprise? Did no-one anticipate this?

Let me answer those simple questions for you. None of this is a surprise, everything was obvious and anticipated, but the MO is just one of reflexive reaction to anxiety over personal failure to be proactive and assume leadership. This is Crown Heights, and more specifically 770. Policies that might be difficult or impossible to implement on a wider scale could be implemented here, even if they aren't popular. I have long advocated for "immunity bracelets". While that might be problematic in other settings, what would stop 770 from issuing such (with proper simple fraud avoidance measures) and allowing only those with such a bracelet to be in 770 without a mask during Tishrei?

I haven't spoken to Dr. Rosen, but I did speak to one of the senior Hatzolah members a while ago. When I presented to him my arguments of how to get mask compliance in 770, the response I got was that the current (as of several weeks ago) belief is that it is not required in Crown Heights with its assumed herd immunity.

Personally, I will try to AVOID wearing a mask whenever and wherever I can, as I see no benefit to it. I don't fear being infected, and I don't believe I will infect others, as I have been sick with COVID-19 months ago and tested positive for antibodies. My attitude towards mask wearing would be different if I saw any serious and HONEST guidance and rules. But as long as it is all evidently reflexive reaction to anxiety over personal failure to be proactive and assume leadership and panic over clear PUBLIC evidence of such, I will resort to doing what I believe is responsible on my behalf, without letting the panic of others (which translates mostly into symbolic rather than substantive actions) affect my behavior.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 12:02:16 PM
Just to put things into perspective, the following is from just one company I sell, and an overwhelming majority of those were for bochurim coming to Crown Heights (or the Ohel).

(https://i.imgur.com/pXb6yK3.png)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 12:11:29 PM
I'm not quoting the megillah above, because the entire premise is faulty. If you read the guidance from The Gedaliah Society dating backs weeks, if not even months, there has been a clear push for widespread mask usage. They've had the full support of the Rabbonim throughout. This is not a new policy reacting to some new bochurim showing up. This is a stronger reaction to many new cases within the community after the preventive policies were ignored.

And calling the gabboim of 770 "leaders" is beyond laughable.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 12:14:12 PM
To reference a different discussion , I believe the rov has now (last week?) gone on record as to his absence
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 12:17:26 PM
@ExGingi can we talk less about who did what to who and more about how to prevent confirmed cases (how many now? 10? 50?) from spreading with the call of the shofar across the shul, and from there across the neighborhood?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 12:21:43 PM
Efforts have been made for months to stop guests from coming for tishrei. Certain individuals refuse to do follow the Rabbonim's guidance.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 12:43:49 PM
Efforts have been made for months to stop guests from coming for tishrei. Certain individuals refuse to do follow the Rabbonim's guidance.
770 was fine till guests started coming in from (i.e. dibs)

770 should only allow people from the shchuna in, have someone standing at the door not allowing guests in
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
770 was fine till guests started coming in from (i.e. dibs)

770 should only allow people from the shchuna in, have someone standing at the door not allowing guests in

Firstly, stop denigrating thousands of Jews.

Secondly, your idea is brilliant. Have a guy at the door (even 10) stopping thousands of Israelis from entering. Genius. That would totally work.

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 12:49:51 PM
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 12:53:34 PM
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.
is anything being done to make the service lane viable for Rosh Hashanah? (shabbos)?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 01:00:26 PM
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.

Hence my assertion that this is all about "symbolic rather than substantive actions".
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
is anything being done to make the service lane viable for Rosh Hashanah? (shabbos)?

I don't know.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 01:04:14 PM
Secondly, your idea is brilliant. Have a guy at the door (even 10) stopping thousands of Israelis from entering. Genius. That would totally work.

The reason that wouldn't work isn't due to the numbers.

It's like the gabboim of 770 asking people to maintain order or keep the place clean. It's laughable since they are primary enablers of chaos in 770.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 01:04:53 PM
Hence my assertion that this is all about "symbolic rather than substantive actions".

Your assertion was that no planning had been done. This is false. Many many efforts were made to prevail on people who could stop guests from coming. They were futile.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 01:07:05 PM
Your assertion was that no planning had been done. This is false. Many many efforts were made to prevail on people who could stop guests from coming. They were futile.

יגעתי ולא מצאתי - אל תאמין
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 01:10:22 PM
יגעתי ולא מצאתי - אל תאמין

You know the situation. How do you propose we stop thousands of guests coming from overseas?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
You know the situation. How do you propose we stop thousands of guests coming from overseas?

They're here now. No-one is stopping anyone now, other than an immediate and absolute shutdown of 770, which I don't think will happen. The time to do things was a couple of months ago. Did anyone come up with a proposed coherent plan of action? I can guarantee you that those that control 770 did not, since they passed the screening test which is a requirement in order to get any position in 770 - if you're capable of thinking or reasoning you are disqualified from any position in 770.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 01:12:48 PM
They're here now. No-one is stopping anyone now, other than an immediate and absolute shutdown of 770, which I don't think will happen.

OK. And with planning, how would it have gone down?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on September 13, 2020, 01:16:49 PM
People just don't care.

I know many who flew to NY for 1-2 for smachot etc.

Ch issue is now probably less the locals, more the guests.

Good luck
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
OK. And with planning, how would it have gone down?

I'm not going to go into possible details of what could have been done, but a strong unequivocal stance that 770 would be shut down absolutely and for EVERYONE as of טו אלול if there was any hint of non-compliance might have sent a strong message.

Unfortunately, the only powerful message coming from 770 is that if you don't make sure to pay Kratz for your locker in what he considers a timely manner, you will lose it.

Requiring proof of antibodies/recovery from COVID-19 along with a HIPAA waiver (or foreign equivalent) that will allow verification of any documentation submitted, and actually doing such verification might have helped. 1414 implemented something along those lines (though I don't think they went as far as the waiver, and they probably should at this point).

Another possibility is actually investing in rapid COVID-19 testing.

As I said, there are many options that might be available to 770 (at a cost) that aren't available as a more widespread policy. Any and all of those should have been considered.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 01:21:15 PM
I'm not going to go into possible details of what could have been done, but a strong unequivocal stance that 770 would be shut down absolutely for EVERYONE as of טו אלול if there was any hint of non-compliance might have sent a strong message.

Unfortunately, the only powerful message coming from 770 is that if you don't make sure to pay Kratz for your locker in what he considers a timely manner, you will lose it.

Compliance isn't enough. We've established that. You need to stop the influx of thousands of guests. Had the originations and individuals who feed the guests sent a clear message overseas that they were not doing that this year, it would have reduced the influx significantly. They refused to do so.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
https://chabad.info/blogs/618556/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
Compliance isn't enough. We've established that. You need to stop the influx of thousands of guests. Had the originations and individuals who feed the guests sent a clear message overseas that they were not doing that this year, it would have reduced the influx significantly. They refused to do so.

Compliance includes banning anyone who hasn't recovered from COVID-19 from coming.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 02:37:53 PM
https://chabad.info/blogs/618556/
I can list you people (living here) who haven't missed slichos / tekios in 770 rosh Hashanah in years.
This year they had been hoping to be able to attend with some precautions.
Now last minute, on order of rabbonim they're having that pulled out from under them.
All because of other people laughing at psak of rabbonim.
See, the tone cuts both ways...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 02:38:50 PM
Here was me thinking all these years that the authority of the current gabboim draws from their loyalty to the rabbonim...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 03:02:58 PM
Here was me thinking all these years that the authority of the current gabboim draws from their loyalty to the rabbonim...

ROTFLMAO
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
other than an immediate and absolute shutdown of 770, which I don't think will happen.

It won't be immediate and it won't be absolute, but the chances are high that 770 will not remain open for everyone throughout Tishrei. Too little and too late, as usual.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 03:20:34 PM
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.

At the risk of turning this into another mask thread.. I think you may be missing the point. We're not stopping the spread at this point. That ship has sailed. However, masks can absolutely lessen the spread, and lessen the severity of the infections that do occur. I fear that this will be lost on a culture that has proven to be deaf to all arguments which are not binary.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 04:10:25 PM
is anything being done to make the service lane viable for Rosh Hashanah? (shabbos)?
The tent that was put up the last few years, the organizer of it said that it probaly won't happen before R"H, and after that he'll have to see how many people takeh came in to see if its worth it
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 04:12:35 PM
The tent that was put up the last few years, the organizer of it said that it probaly won't happen before R"H, and after that he'll have to see how many people takeh came in to see if its worth it

Is he also to be counted as one of the leaders?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 04:12:47 PM
I heard today, don't know how true
That a group from tzfas yeshiva came last week, snuck off to crown heights while an outbreak of Corona was beginning to spread there and before the yeshiva locked down
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 04:13:33 PM
Is he also to be counted as one of the leaders?
I would count him as a leader of the tent, being that he arranged it, fundraised for it
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 04:14:23 PM
I heard today, don't know how true
That a group from tzfas yeshiva came last week, snuck off to crown heights while an outbreak of Corona was beginning to spread there and before the yeshiva locked down

I have no idea about that, but based on the calls and inquiries I'm getting it seems like quite a few will be coming for YK after the complete their lockdown/quarantine/recovery there.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 04:57:25 PM
I would count him as a leader of the tent, being that he arranged it, fundraised for it

He has done more good things (though whenever one does something there will be criticism) beyond the tent. בקעה מצא וגדר בה גדר.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: incendia on September 13, 2020, 05:00:45 PM

 I have long advocated for "immunity bracelets". While that might be problematic in other settings, what would stop 770 from issuing such (with proper simple fraud avoidance measures) and allowing only those with such a bracelet to be in 770 without a mask during Tishrei?



This is a bad idea. Some will go out of their way to get Covid so they can have the bracelet. No doubt they will act irresponsibly while they are sick, and spread it.

The best thing to do is what everyone else is doing:
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 05:06:48 PM
The tent that was put up the last few years, the organizer of it said that it probaly won't happen before R"H, and after that he'll have to see how many people takeh came in to see if its worth it
because this year guests are the reason for the tent?!
על הראשונים אנו מצטערים...
Maybe this year it should be for the locals...
(and maybe not as enclosed...) and maybe the shul should carry some of that responsibility for a change...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
because this year guests are the reason for the tent?!
על הראשונים אנו מצטערים...
Maybe this year it should be for the locals...
(and maybe not as enclosed...) and maybe the shul should carry some of that responsibility for a change...
It was mainly the locals who used it
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on September 13, 2020, 05:11:32 PM
The important thing to remember is that whatever spread might happen now, it's all the fault of the kevutza bochurim who came to learn here for the year and maybe didn't quarantine for quite as long as they should have.
It has nothing to do with the American bochurim who came to yeshiva here and didn't quarantine when they got here. It has nothing to do with all the locals who've been going on vacation all over the place and not quarantining when they got back. It has nothing to do with all the visitors coming in for simchas etc.
It's all the fault of the kevutza bochurim.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 05:13:27 PM
the American bochurim who came to yeshiva here and didn't quarantine when they got here. It has nothing to do with all the locals who've been going on vacation all over the place and not quarantining when they got back. It has nothing to do with all the visitors coming in for simchas etc.
in case you missed those threads as well
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 05:14:47 PM
https://gothamist.com/news/video-shows-packed-crown-heights-synagogue-ahead-jewish-high-holy-days

770 doesn't seem so concerned.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 05:44:28 PM
I'm not going to go into possible details of what could have been done, but a strong unequivocal stance that 770 would be shut down absolutely and for EVERYONE as of טו אלול if there was any hint of non-compliance might have sent a strong message.

Unfortunately, the only powerful message coming from 770 is that if you don't make sure to pay Kratz for your locker in what he considers a timely manner, you will lose it.

Requiring proof of antibodies/recovery from COVID-19 along with a HIPAA waiver (or foreign equivalent) that will allow verification of any documentation submitted, and actually doing such verification might have helped. 1414 implemented something along those lines (though I don't think they went as far as the waiver, and they probably should at this point).

Another possibility is actually investing in rapid COVID-19 testing.

As I said, there are many options that might be available to 770 (at a cost) that aren't available as a more widespread policy. Any and all of those should have been considered.
Besides paying kratz for lockers
The gaboyim need the money from the seats plus the mitzvos they sell, its over half their budget
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 05:59:22 PM
https://gothamist.com/news/video-shows-packed-crown-heights-synagogue-ahead-jewish-high-holy-days

770 doesn't seem so concerned.

Well, they say: "require religious services held inside to include no more than 33 percent of the maximum occupancy"

I'd say maximum occupancy of 770 is at least 25,000 so we're way below that threshold.  ;D
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
Besides paying kratz for lockers
The gaboyim need the money from the seats plus the mitzvos they sell, its over half their budget

Please don't get me started.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 06:10:52 PM
Well, they say: "require religious services held inside to include no more than 33 percent of the maximum occupancy"

I'd say maximum occupancy of 770 is at least 25,000 so we're way below that threshold.  ;D
That looks like 125% of fire department occupancy.

Also, no masks? Isn't that a 770 policy anyway?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Jerseysteve on September 13, 2020, 07:19:06 PM
https://collive.com/coronavirus-update-42-time-to-restart-porch-minyanim-due-to-multiple-new-covid-cases/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 07:21:59 PM
https://collive.com/coronavirus-update-42-time-to-restart-porch-minyanim-due-to-multiple-new-covid-cases/

1. Seems to be a repost.
2. Better to post direct Gedalia Society blog links rather than commercial websites.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 13, 2020, 07:29:55 PM
Compliance includes banning anyone who hasn't recovered from COVID-19 from coming.
All rules are fine as long as they don't apply to you?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 07:37:57 PM
All rules are fine as long as they don't apply to you?

All sensible rules should apply uniformly.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Therebbesbocher on September 13, 2020, 07:57:41 PM
OT zal shut down with covid
According to whatsapp
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 07:59:33 PM
2. Better to post direct Gedalia Society blog links rather than commercial websites.

Puh-leaze. You don't want links posted to banned websites. Banned by the Rabbonim. The Rabbonim who said to wear masks.
All rules are fine as long as they don't apply to you?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 08:04:52 PM
OT zal shut down with covid
According to whatsapp

I'm hearing that's not accurate. 2 Shiurim are in quarantine.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
I'm hearing that's not accurate. 2 Shiurim are in quarantine.

LOL. As if you can separate any one or two shiurim in a Yeshivah that learns in room, eats in one room and sleeps in one dorm.

Reminds me of when it started and OT kept one class home for a day. As if.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 08:10:30 PM
Puh-leaze. You don't want links posted to banned websites. Banned by the Rabbonim. The Rabbonim who said to wear masks.

I'm unaware of banning by Rabbonim of that (or any) website. If I had a שאלה about it I might have turned to Rabbonim for guidance. When things are obvious there's no need to ask a שאלה.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
I'm unaware of banning by Rabbonim of that (or any) website. If I had a שאלה about it I might have turned to Rabbonim for guidance. When things are obvious there's no need to ask a שאלה.

Can't click on links from banned websites.

I wasn't aware that a psak only applies to you if you're the one who asks the shaila. And the Rabbonim didn't wait for you to ask the shaila. They did it preemptively, not waiting to react to your panic
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 08:44:31 PM
I wasn't aware that a psak only applies to you if you're the one who asks the shaila. And the Rabbonim didn't wait for you to ask the shaila. They did it preemptively, not waiting to react to your panic
I have banned that website for years. Never waited for any Rabbonim to ban it, and other than your reference here, I don't know that they did.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 08:50:31 PM
(https://files.anash.org/uploads/2020/09/WhatsApp-Image-2020-09-13-at-2.30.23-PM.jpeg)

Reportedly from Lefferts mikvah.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on September 13, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Strong voice note from R Braun going around now.  Not sure how to upload audio.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 08:53:14 PM
(https://files.anash.org/uploads/2020/09/WhatsApp-Image-2020-09-13-at-2.30.23-PM.jpeg)
kinda like shutting down china flights in march.
it's here already.
I don't know anyone that has OT bochurim as 'orchim'. (though admitted most not running to Lefferts...)
if mikvah meir did this in tammuz, might have been the serious intention you were referring to
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 08:53:59 PM
Strong voice note from R Braun going around now.  Not sure how to upload audio.
since shabbos?
hasn't been (yet) on his official distribution channels...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on September 13, 2020, 08:55:24 PM
since shabbos?
hasn't been (yet) on his official distribution channels...
Private phone call from someone with his permission to share.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 08:57:08 PM
So, is this all outsiders, herd immunity isn't a thing, or reinfections?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 08:57:17 PM
since shabbos?
hasn't been (yet) on his official distribution channels...
A recorded phone call is going around
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 08:58:18 PM
So, is this all outsiders, herd immunity isn't a thing, or reinfections?
they've been talking for months about not diluting the herd
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 08:58:56 PM
they've been talking for months about not diluting the herd
What do you mean "diluting the herd"?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 08:59:36 PM
What do you mean "diluting the herd"?
read the updates from sivan/tammuz
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Moshe123 on September 13, 2020, 08:59:43 PM
Strong voice note from R Braun going around now.  Not sure how to upload audio.

Got it now. He's being very clear.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 13, 2020, 09:00:53 PM
Strong voice note from R Braun going around now.  Not sure how to upload audio.
If you can't use the upload button you can email it to me.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 09:02:18 PM
So, is this all outsiders, herd immunity isn't a thing, or reinfections?

This isn't Lakewood. There aren't hundreds of cases yet. There is concern that it will quickly spiral out of control, due to a combination of the 3 factors you mentioned. You have a massive influx of outsiders, together with the ~50% of the local community that hasn't gotten it yet, along with some sporadic reinfections thrown in.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 09:03:55 PM
I'm hearing that's not accurate. 2 Shiurim are in quarantine.
The hanhala just made alot of rules for the whole zal
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 09:11:52 PM
This isn't Lakewood. There aren't hundreds of cases yet. There is concern that it will quickly spiral out of control, due to a combination of the 3 factors you mentioned. You have a massive influx of outsiders, together with the ~50% of the local community that hasn't gotten it yet, along with some sporadic reinfections thrown in.
I heard that there was a 75% infection rate, and likely a 90% exposure rate back in March. This is concerning no matter what.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 09:13:37 PM
Got it now. He's being very clear.

Can you post it?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 09:17:30 PM
I heard that there was a 75% infection rate, and likely a 90% exposure rate back in March. This is concerning no matter what.
'exposure' seems to mean less than we thought. most of the 'reinfection' being discussed is those cases.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 09:23:39 PM
'exposure' seems to mean less than we thought. most of the 'reinfection' being discussed is those cases.
I'm not sure who the "we" is. It certainly wasn't the scientific and medical community.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on September 13, 2020, 09:25:45 PM
If you can't use the upload button you can email it to me.
Sent. Hopefully to the correct email.

There was a 2nd voice note to reiterate that what happened on motzei shabbos in 770 was unacceptable and permission to share the voice recoding.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on September 13, 2020, 09:30:40 PM
If you can't use the upload button you can email it to me.
I sent it to you
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 09:45:43 PM
https://soundcloud.com/ddf-sod/braun-770-covid
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
https://soundcloud.com/ddf-sod/braun-770-covid

Why can't the Rabbonim be clear and unambiguous? /s
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 09:53:08 PM
Why can't the Rabbonim be clear and unambiguous? /s

What was that? First down? Time to move the chains!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 13, 2020, 09:55:06 PM
Either the same, even though people could have brought from home, it's not the same when it's in front of you as you walk in.
Or, momentum was lost by the mincha/maariv.
But a lot of people are willing to comply if it's the norm, and even more people will wear if there is "peer pressure" to wear one, and there will always be the people that no matter what, they won't want to wear one
Word is that there were masks by the door by maariv tonight and about 90% was wearing, perhaps reinforcing my first point, although there can be other factors that helped.
Although it's a bit late now...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 13, 2020, 09:57:00 PM
OT zal shut down with covid
According to whatsapp
I'm hearing that's not accurate. 2 Shiurim are in quarantine.
The hanhala just made alot of rules for the whole zal


Apparently zal is moving into their own bubble. No one is allowed off campus. No sleeping at home. No mikva. You can go home now, or stay in the bubble through Tishrei. Anyone caught breaking the rules is kicked out for good. Some teachers will not be coming in.

Let's see how long this lasts.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 09:59:29 PM
Apparently zal is moving into their own bubble. No one is allowed off campus. No sleeping at home. No mikva. You can go home now, or stay in the bubble through Tishrei. Anyone caught breaking the rules is kicked out for good. Some teachers will not be coming in.

Let's see how long this lasts.

"My Rebbe is so good at baseball, you know he almost played for the Mets, but couldn't because of Shabbos?"
"That's nothing! My teacher was so good at basketball, in 2020 he was in the bubble!"
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 13, 2020, 10:02:54 PM


There was a 2nd voice note to reiterate that what happened on motzei shabbos in 770 was unacceptable and permission to share the voice recoding.

Emailed it
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 13, 2020, 10:03:21 PM

Emailed it

https://soundcloud.com/ddf-sod/braun-770-covid
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 13, 2020, 10:04:02 PM

The second one
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 13, 2020, 10:08:01 PM
Why can't the Rabbonim be clear and unambiguous? /s
Now if only the doctors can be as unambiguous. Or am I missing something? 

How about a משגיח תמידי in 770?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 13, 2020, 10:23:05 PM
https://soundcloud.com/ddf-sod/braun-770-covid

The second one
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yo ssi on September 13, 2020, 10:42:33 PM
https://crownheights.info/crown-heights-news/714148/confirmed-covid-19-case-in-oholei-torah-zal-bochurim-to-enter-quarantine/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 13, 2020, 10:56:26 PM
'exposure' seems to mean less than we thought. most of the 'reinfection' being discussed is those cases.
Exposure means exactly what i have been saying for months.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 10:57:03 PM
Exposure means exactly what i have been saying for months.
meaning?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 13, 2020, 10:58:19 PM
meaning?
A little more than zero but not much.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 10:58:54 PM
here's what I was referring to
Quote from: https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/08/covid-19-update-39.html
At least one or two infections are in people who have never previously been ill, but who have previously been extensively exposed  while helping take care of others in their family at home who had been ill. This is worrisome because we had hoped that such a high degree of exposure in the home would mean that their body “saw the virus” in some unmeasurable way, and would recognise it again with an immunological response, but this is now called into question.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 13, 2020, 11:00:30 PM
מטעם הגבאים מכיוון שלא רוצים שיהיה התקהלות ב770
ממחר מוצאים את כל הספסלים...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 11:04:50 PM
A little more than zero but not much.
so the 90% 'exposure' rate means very little.
The 70% infection rate should mean something. though by now, even if it was that high, it's been 'diluted' since...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 11:06:21 PM
so the 90% 'exposure' rate means very little.
The 70% infection rate should mean something. though by now, even if it was that high, it's been 'diluted' since...
Or everyone thought they had it when really many fewer did, or it was a biased sample who actually got tested for antibodies, or a number of false positives for antibodies etc.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on September 13, 2020, 11:06:25 PM
https://anash.org/harav-braun-in-my-opinion-770-should-be-closed/

This is real leadership. 
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on September 13, 2020, 11:08:06 PM
Or everyone thought they had it when really many fewer did, or it was a biased sample who actually got tested for antibodies, or a number of false positives for antibodies etc.

I was thinking about that also, How many people felt like they had it based on symptoms and never got tested for antibodies?

Or maybe the antibodies were based on some other stuff ?

Wasn't there multiple versions of the virus ? From my understanding you can get both of them
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 11:08:57 PM
From my understanding you can get both of them
link?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 11:10:35 PM
I was thinking about that also, How many people felt like they had it based on symptoms and never got tested for antibodies?

Or maybe the antibodies were based on some other stuff ?

Wasn't there multiple versions of the virus ? From my understanding you can get both of them
I don't want to go down the can of worms that is the antibody testing, as it seems in most places, so far there are no confirmed cases being reported of those with antibodies.

Therefore, more likely than not that people extrapolated "herd immunity" from a skewed sample of the population.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shaulyaakov on September 13, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
I don't want to go down the can of worms that is the antibody testing, as it seems in most places, so far there are no confirmed cases being reported of those with antibodies.

Therefore, more likely than not that people extrapolated "herd immunity" from a skewed sample of the population.
If the antibodies only last a bit longer than 6 months, and the virus is already spreading at an accelerated pace, then it's pretty bad news.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on September 13, 2020, 11:17:04 PM
If the antibodies only last a bit longer than 6 months, and the virus is already spreading at an accelerated pace, then it's pretty bad news.

That is what was supposed to happen was with people were supposed to create a bubble where the virus wasn't growing, it didn't happen.

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on September 13, 2020, 11:23:22 PM
link?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-reinfection-hong-kong-man-different-strain/

There seems to be six different strains of the Coronavirus.

There is no actual solid data weather getting one strain protects you against the other.

Just as you can get multiple strains of flu or cold.

on the other hand studies are showing that some t cell immunity exists from other prior viruses.

My point is, we don't know and everyone is different
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 13, 2020, 11:24:45 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-reinfection-hong-kong-man-different-strain/

There seems to be six different strains of the Coronavirus.

There is no actual solid data weather getting one strain protects you against the other.

Just as you can get multiple strains of flu or cold.

on the other hand studies are showing that some t cell immunity exists from other prior viruses.

My point is, we don't know and everyone is different
don't think there's been any documented example of someone getting 'both' strains (any more than the 5-10 cases of 'reinfection' globally. and nobody seems to be suggesting that explanation there)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on September 13, 2020, 11:27:19 PM
https://anash.org/harav-braun-in-my-opinion-770-should-be-closed/

This is real leadership. 


If only to keep people from getting on planes...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 14, 2020, 08:54:26 AM
Just to put things into perspective, the following is from just one company I sell, and an overwhelming majority of those were for bochurim coming to Crown Heights (or the Ohel).

(https://i.imgur.com/pXb6yK3.png)

Getting a bunch of cancellatios this morning. Some yeshiva disallowed their talmidim from traveling, while separately some bochurim had to postpone their flights due to quarantine requirement due to exposure to a positive COVID-19.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 14, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
https://anash.org/770-now-open-for-davening-exclusively/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Cholentfresser on September 14, 2020, 12:18:37 PM
https://anash.org/770-now-open-for-davening-exclusively/
What does that mean? you're not allowed in unless you're davening?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 14, 2020, 12:25:52 PM
What does that mean? you're not allowed in unless you're davening?
the same room normally serves concurrently for בית כנסת, בית מדרש,בית מעשים טובים
by removing the seats everyone is encouraged to not 'hang out'.
the yeshiva is moving to?? the yard?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 14, 2020, 12:48:38 PM
What does that mean? you're not allowed in unless you're davening?

Followup question: will anyone engaged in talking be thrown out?  :P
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Cholentfresser on September 14, 2020, 12:50:12 PM
the yeshiva is moving to?? the yard?
To Israel? ;)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 14, 2020, 12:50:33 PM
Followup question: will anyone engaged in talking be thrown out?  :P
of course, by the chief talker
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lev g on September 14, 2020, 01:15:22 PM
Followup question: will anyone engaged in talking be thrown out?  :P

It’s very simple.. the reason they are taking out the benches is so they shouldn’t have to enforce anything, if there’s no where to sit automatically it’s not gonna be a hang out.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 14, 2020, 01:24:32 PM
It’s very simple.. the reason they are taking out the benches is so they shouldn’t have to enforce anything, if there’s no where to sit automatically it’s not gonna be a hang out.

Dancing in a circle endlessly doesn't require sitting.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 14, 2020, 01:38:10 PM
Dancing in an endless circle doesn't require sitting.

Endless circle is redundant
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 14, 2020, 01:47:19 PM
Dancing in a circle endlessly doesn't require sitting.
Endless circle is redundant

FTFM.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on September 14, 2020, 01:52:18 PM
Endless circle is redundant
Is the circle endless or is the dancing endless?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 14, 2020, 01:53:18 PM
Is the circle endless or is the dancing endless?
...asked the hamster
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 14, 2020, 01:56:36 PM
...asked the hamster

That's actually a great nickname for them.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 14, 2020, 02:17:28 PM
That's actually a great nickname for them.
עפ"ל
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 14, 2020, 04:16:32 PM
of course, by the chief talker

I went to 770 for mincha today. One of the few benches that were left in place was his bench.

The supply of masks is welcome. Finally, there's an alternative to the hand dryer torture.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 14, 2020, 04:18:23 PM
I went to 770 for mincha today. One of the few benches that were left in place was his bench.
Seems like he is saying
All rules are fine as long as they don't apply to him?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yelped on September 14, 2020, 08:28:16 PM
The supply of masks is welcome. Finally, there's an alternative to the hand dryer torture.
Is this another side effect of Covid-19?  ;D
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on September 14, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
I was just in 770 for maariv by the Rebbe's minyan, from what I can see I would say mask usage was something like 85%, although of those probably 20% weren't covering their nose etc.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 14, 2020, 09:50:08 PM
The bocher in ot that tested positive yesterday on a rapid test, today came back the longer test as negative
All that for nothing, nunu

The whole yeshiva got tested today and took antibody test
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 15, 2020, 01:09:51 AM
The bocher in ot that tested positive yesterday on a rapid test, today came back the longer test as negative
All that for nothing, nunu

That sentence can be said over and over millions of times over the last six months.

But then again, when we do things for ספק פיקוח נפש is it considered "for nothing"?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Therebbesbocher on September 15, 2020, 01:14:19 AM
The bocher in ot that tested positive yesterday on a rapid test, today came back the longer test as negative
All that for nothing, nunu

The whole yeshiva got tested today and took antibody test
Rumor has it that other bocherim have tested positive by now
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 15, 2020, 02:21:27 AM
Is this another side effect of Covid-19?  ;D
I was actually toying with the idea of sponsoring paper towels for weekdays during Tishrei, but I guess it's no longer needed.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 15, 2020, 02:36:32 PM
https://anash.org/770-to-remain-open-for-rosh-hashana/

Interesting twist: the Rov would like 770 to be closed, but is deferring to the doctors who believe it is safer to keep it open.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 15, 2020, 03:13:09 PM
https://anash.org/770-to-remain-open-for-rosh-hashana/

Interesting twist: the Rov would like 770 to be closed, but is deferring to the doctors who believe it is safer to keep it open.
Stam interesting, the rovs father in law is walking around in 770 with no mask
Nunu
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 15, 2020, 03:21:55 PM
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 15, 2020, 03:33:06 PM
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that

Stam, you want to drei a kop, you can find a way to eat pork on Yom Kippur, too. Used to be a bunch of guys in Thailand that made a whole yomtov out of it.

Gedaliah Society is in close contact and guided by Dr. Avi Rosenberg of Johns Hopkins. He's been dealing with Covid since Jan in Italy. Not that it matters, because you're gonna do what you want to do.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yaakov35 on September 15, 2020, 03:34:59 PM
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that
Same as ditchek in Flatbush, generally the ones who make the most noise are not the most knowledgeable in that particular area.

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 15, 2020, 03:36:28 PM
Stam interesting, the rovs father in law is walking around in 770 with no mask
Nunu
dunno that he takes orders from anyone... or that he can be kept from 770 for any length of time (mor than @ExGingi if you can imagine that)...
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that
אה"נ
as others here have said 'follow your rov', similarly here, follow your own רופא ידיד.
the benefit that he/they have is possibly:
*larger number of patients so bigger data pool
*the benefit of multiple people/professionals able to pool their energy and expertise on the topic
*they seem to be collecting data in coordination with hatzalah as well as the other local practices

and possibly העיקר
they're actually making statements on record.giving guidance beyond their own patients. so for public 'leadership' it's kinda the only voice there is
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 15, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that

Dr Rosen is not only a pediatrician.
The Gedalia Society is made up of dozens of medical professionals in many specialties.
The person who you are referring to is a radiologist, and he'll be the first to tell you you shouldn't listen to rules if he was the one to make them. But he's not making trash up. He's given of his life for months now for nothing. He's not a community doctor. He's not even remotely responsible to do any of this. No other community in the world had what we had with the Gedalia Society. There's no exaggerating what an incredible impact he has made on the lives of thousands, and who is to know how many lives have been saved thanks to him and his co-society volunteers.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: koplonko on September 15, 2020, 08:02:36 PM
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: koplonko on September 15, 2020, 08:04:13 PM
https://anash.org/770-to-remain-open-for-rosh-hashana/

Interesting twist: the Rov would like 770 to be closed, but is deferring to the doctors who believe it is safer to keep it open.
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?
Bichlal, the only thing that's clear, is that he's not making himself clear.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 15, 2020, 08:06:03 PM
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?

Read why the doctors want to keep it open...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on September 15, 2020, 08:07:59 PM
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that

Fwiw, a very close friend of mine from the wine world is currently 72, He retired his chief anesthesiologist of his Pittsburgh children's hospital, after an over 40 year distinguished career.

He's also a scientist and world expert on intubation and various drugs, specializing in rare cases where people are severely allergic to anesthesia.

Saying that an anesthesiologist is not an expert, is like saying, a divorce lawyer has no qualifications as a mediator.
Title: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on September 15, 2020, 08:20:17 PM
The advantage any doctor has over your average layman is their ability to read and truly understand (with all the nuances) scientific studies and papers.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 15, 2020, 09:17:07 PM
The advantage any doctor has over your average layman is their ability to read and truly understand (with all the nuances) scientific studies and papers.
What about reading the statistics and data?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 15, 2020, 09:22:26 PM
What about reading the statistics and data?
And understanding them? Absolutely!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 15, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?
Bichlal, the only thing that's clear, is that he's not making himself clear.

He has only been unclear if you haven't agreed with him
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 15, 2020, 09:41:29 PM
And understanding them? Absolutely!
Ok
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/aTx5OMKR7FCGQ/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7b648r9vepylpnict0wluh5dk87n8mz7hsgtqlgv2&rid=giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: koplonko on September 15, 2020, 09:51:58 PM
Read why the doctors want to keep it open...
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 15, 2020, 09:53:24 PM
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?

They don't deem it safe.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: koplonko on September 15, 2020, 09:54:30 PM
He has only been unclear if you haven't agreed with him
As a mispalel of 770 that does not readily have another shul to daven in, and davening in 770 is very important to me, I ask: should I specifically find somewhere else to daven this year? Can he answer that with a Yes/No?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: koplonko on September 15, 2020, 09:55:39 PM
They don't deem it safe.
They want it open, or at least said it could stay open. He says it really can't but he defers to them.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 15, 2020, 09:56:16 PM
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?

From a location-specific safety point of view, they are in agreement that 770 should be closed. However, the doctors are looking at the bigger picture in CH, and are recommending keeping it open with strict rules, ONLY because pushing all those hundreds of people into other shuls or places around the neighborhood does the general community more harm than good. That isn't to say they think 770 is safe. They just think the community is safer this way.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 15, 2020, 09:57:17 PM
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?
There is having kabolas ol to the psak, which is kabolas ol to the doctors, then there are personal opinions
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 15, 2020, 09:59:18 PM
As a mispalel of 770 that does not readily have another shul to daven in, and davening in 770 is very important to me, I ask: should I specifically find somewhere else to daven this year? Can he answer that with a Yes/No?

Did you ask him?

A relative of mine who davens in 770 every single day, has paid for seats for him tov, farbrengs with Rabbi Braun in 770 very often, did not daven there shabbos or slichos, and is going to a backyard minyan for R"H.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 15, 2020, 10:03:01 PM
As a mispalel of 770 that does not readily have another shul to daven in, and davening in 770 is very important to me, I ask: should I specifically find somewhere else to daven this year? Can he answer that with a Yes/No?

Ask both Rabbi Braun and Dr. Rosen, with the specifics of your situation. I'd be surprised if they don't both give you the same answer.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 15, 2020, 10:23:41 PM
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?
Bichlal, the only thing that's clear, is that he's not making himself clear.
you'll notice that the entire "opinion that it be closed" is all drawn from that phone call that we all heard. The news site took that statement and is dragging it. Listen to the recording again
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 15, 2020, 10:32:12 PM
Ok
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/aTx5OMKR7FCGQ/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7b648r9vepylpnict0wluh5dk87n8mz7hsgtqlgv2&rid=giphy.gif)
That is no more of a logical argument coming from you than when anyone repeats Kool-Aid over and over again. The analysis of data is not a simple thing. I can tell you this from my own experiences.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 15, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?

You seem to have some reading comprehension issues here.

Read why the doctors want to keep it open...
Quote
Dr. Eli Rosen has stated that 770 must remain open for Rosh Hashana, as closing it would cause the hundreds of bochurim and visitors to spend time in the community’s shuls and streets, a recipe for disaster.
They don't deem it safe.

Thye just feel that to close it would be worse.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: good sam on September 16, 2020, 12:31:16 AM
you'll notice that the entire "opinion that it be closed" is all drawn from that phone call that we all heard. The news site took that statement and is dragging it. Listen to the recording again
My thought as well. The whole quote is taken out of context, he was not taking a strong position one way or the other.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 16, 2020, 01:09:52 AM
he was not taking a strong position one way or the other.
other than "safety at all costs" up to, and including, shutting the shul if necessary
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on September 16, 2020, 01:24:13 AM
I was actually toying with the idea of sponsoring paper towels for weekdays during Tishrei, but I guess it's no longer needed.
The perfect accompaniment to your Rabbinic announcement toilet paper
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 16, 2020, 10:27:00 PM
Not quite CH, but 18 bochurim tested positive in Morristown.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 16, 2020, 10:59:29 PM
Rapid or pcr?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 16, 2020, 11:07:09 PM
Not quite CH, but 18 bochurim tested positive in Morristown.
Source?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 16, 2020, 11:13:30 PM
Rapid or pcr?

I believe PCR, but I'm not 100% sure.

Source?

The minyan I was considering davening with on RH has a Mo-town bochur coming back and joining.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 08:55:47 AM
https://anash.org/eshel-issues-statment-to-crown-heights-community/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 09:08:23 AM
Is this fake news?

(https://gyazo.com/add16b82f519569e87eaff16cd3fb340.jpg)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Ergel on September 17, 2020, 09:15:30 AM
Is this fake news?
What are the odds it isn't?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 09:16:32 AM
Is this fake news?

(https://gyazo.com/add16b82f519569e87eaff16cd3fb340.jpg)

Asked someone loosely associated with Gedaliah Society to confirm it, and he said they've heard nothing like this.

ETA: by virtue of the headline alone, I'm going to call this fake news.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on September 17, 2020, 09:56:25 AM
Is this fake news?

(https://gyazo.com/add16b82f519569e87eaff16cd3fb340.jpg)

If it’s going around Whatsapp and isn’t on their official blog or on the news outlets then it’s fake news.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 10:01:16 AM
What are the odds it isn't?

Slim to none, and slim seems to be out of town.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yo ssi on September 17, 2020, 10:09:57 AM
If it’s going around Whatsapp and isn’t on their official blog or on the news outlets then it’s fake news.
And if it is on the "news outlets"?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 10:12:00 AM
And if it is on the "news outlets"?

They don't post WhatsApp rumors without verifying, and they all have access to Dr. Rosen. For things like this, they can generally be relied upon.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 10:37:55 AM
I was actually toying with the idea of sponsoring paper towels for weekdays during Tishrei, but I guess it's no longer needed.

Just confirmed that 770 isn't paying for the masks. I told Kratz that if that's the case they should take my suggestion seriously and place a supply next to each sink, in lieu of paper towels.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
OT zal shut down with covid
According to whatsapp

This is now true.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 12:05:49 PM
This is now true.

Shut down by the Health Department.

ETA: by virtue of the headline alone, I'm going to call this fake news.

May need to walk this back... Schools are sending out forms for families to fill out detailing where they'll be over yomtov, along with a list of rules.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 17, 2020, 12:47:59 PM
Does this include the dorm?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 17, 2020, 12:48:29 PM
This is now true.
Does this include the dorm?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
Does this include the dorm?

Quote
For those that will not be able to quarantine safely at home, the yeshiva will keep the Zal apartments open through Simchas Torah. We will provide food, sukkah and do whatever we can to make sure the boys are comfortable. Bochurim are required to adhere to the CDC guidelines and follow the quarantine rules. As per Dept of Health, having antibodies is not an exception.

**Its important to note that the DOH may be visiting homes to make sure your son is quarantining properly.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 02:32:54 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/L64mvMMm/Whats-App-Image-2020-09-17-at-1-58-38-PM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8s38P95Y)


IMHO we have lost our mind, but then again, who am I to question the possiblity of ספק פיקוח נפש?


ETA: English version (unofficial translation) available here: https://anash.org/770-shul-releases-rosh-hashana-regulations/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 17, 2020, 02:43:06 PM
Rabbi Brauns released a voicenote. too big for me to attach though...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 17, 2020, 02:44:21 PM
Rabbi Brauns released a voicenote. too big for me to attach though...

Summary?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 17, 2020, 02:47:29 PM
Didnt have time to listen to it all yet ...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 17, 2020, 02:51:37 PM
Rabbi Brauns released a voicenote. too big for me to attach though...
Email to me
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 17, 2020, 03:23:33 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/L64mvMMm/Whats-App-Image-2020-09-17-at-1-58-38-PM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8s38P95Y)


IMHO we have lost our mind, but then again, who am I to question the possiblity of ספק פיקוח נפש?


ETA: English version (unofficial translation) available here: https://anash.org/770-shul-releases-rosh-hashana-regulations/

Which part of this makes you feel they have lost their minds?

Side question: What is with the name ליובאוויטש שבליובאוויטש?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 17, 2020, 03:40:52 PM
Email to me
can u tell me the email adress to send to plz?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 17, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
never mind - sent
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 17, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/L64mvMMm/Whats-App-Image-2020-09-17-at-1-58-38-PM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8s38P95Y)


IMHO we have lost our mind, but then again, who am I to question the possiblity of ספק פיקוח נפש?


ETA: English version (unofficial translation) available here: https://anash.org/770-shul-releases-rosh-hashana-regulations/
let's say you're right that the odds of more than a few infections is low, the danger of schools being shut down is not
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yelped on September 17, 2020, 03:59:37 PM
Which part of this makes you feel they have lost their minds?

Side question: What is with the name ליובאוויטש שבליובאוויטש?
I thought it was the Minyan Shel HaRebi. What is that supposed to mean anyways?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 05:12:42 PM
Which part of this makes you feel they have lost their minds?

Side question: What is with the name ליובאוויטש שבליובאוויטש?

1. I didn't say "they have lost their minds", I said "we have lost are mind".

2. I have long contended (and have yet to be proven wrong, though my proof of being right is only anecdotal and circumstantial) that there is a screening test in order to get any position whatsoever in 770. The screening test is extremely simple, if one is capable of thinking or reasoning, they are automaticallyl disqualified from any position in 770. With that in mind, letting those that have passed that screening test determine the arrangements for 30% capacity.... (though I won't be surprised to find out that this notice is once again just lip service to appease the authorities).

3. As for the expression ליובאוויטש שבליובאוויטש - I don't really know how or why it came about, I can speculate that it was used to differentiate between Lubavitch shtieblach to the "source", but I don't have any knowledge or source. A google search didn't come up with much (except for the widespread use of the term and this early source (https://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/tm/5/17/182.htm?q=%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%95%D7%91%D7%90%D7%95%D7%95%D7%99%D7%98%D7%A9%20%D7%A9%D7%91%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%95%D7%91%D7%90%D7%95%D7%95%D7%99%D7%98%D7%A9)).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 05:24:26 PM
The madness continues:

(https://i.imgur.com/nL4SBT3.png)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on September 17, 2020, 05:42:07 PM
The madness continues:


which mikvah?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 17, 2020, 06:03:56 PM
Rabbi Brauns released a voicenote. too big for me to attach though...
https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/17180149/AUD-20200917-WA0005.m4a
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 17, 2020, 06:23:29 PM
The 30% capacity matches health department guidelines. They will not be able to enforce that.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 17, 2020, 09:39:28 PM
The 30% capacity matches health department guidelines. They will not be able to enforce have no intention, and never considered even for a split second enforcing that.
FTFY
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on September 17, 2020, 11:54:51 PM
I heard that BR sem are all quartineing in their basements for the next 2 weeks
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on September 18, 2020, 12:20:27 AM
I'm told one or two number of the morristown positives had antibodies
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 08:12:44 AM
1414 got 2 turnstiles delivered this morning. Crowd Control?


(https://i.postimg.cc/3RsKnKzF/AB0795-D7-472-B-4-AF9-A155-B8-D2379-C2-DA1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


(https://i.postimg.cc/vmjMZY8w/D16-B4-FE2-640-F-483-C-BD3-D-DDEED57-CDCF8.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 18, 2020, 09:07:38 AM
1414 got 2 turnstiles delivered this morning. Crowd Control?

They must be building a mikvah. That's the only use for turnstiles in the frum world.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 18, 2020, 09:11:07 AM
They must be building a mikvah. That's the only use for turnstiles in the frum world.

Maybe for a virtual mikvah experience, like the shvil, so they don't forget aich hayah.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 09:32:47 AM
They must be building a mikvah. That's the only use for turnstiles in the frum world.

More likely to have control and documentation over who enters the building and/or the dining room and ability to remotely lock and allow exit only at certain times.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lcm on September 18, 2020, 10:19:37 AM
They were planning on putting in turnstiles by the dining room since last tishrei, after the kitchen management turned over.
They are trying to keep costs down by only letting in those those that are officially supposed to be there.
Apparently they finally decided to go ahead with it.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 03:28:32 PM
I'm surprised to see they actually did something in 770 that might make sense.

Moved the standing room to the sides and the benches to the center. Getting rid of the "washing machine".
(https://i.postimg.cc/02Qy7N3w/0-C3-F0-BA8-0240-4-AE6-9777-988-B63-C78-FF3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMyxJnnF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vBhGVRth/8860-EEE6-7-DB3-40-A7-8-DB7-7352655910-B5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G84WW5NT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NMscYJvH/C98-EB813-6092-4-B17-9684-A1-B38420909-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4sVzx9r)

No seatmap has been posted yet. Nor are seats labeled.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 03:31:46 PM
Outside


(https://i.postimg.cc/V5yZsv0V/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pv4Q2t4W)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PrYTW8yN/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKVBcsvL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtFrHBV8/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYFWW8zw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/c4yNLLWW/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PN476hNV)

What’s next? An Eruv by the Rabbonim of Crown Heights?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: incendia on September 18, 2020, 03:39:23 PM
I'm surprised to see they actually did something in 770 that might make sense.

Moved the standing room to the sides and the benches to the center. Getting rid of the "washing machine".

No seatmap has been posted yet. Nor are seats labeled.

Why keep so many benches?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on September 18, 2020, 03:45:52 PM
Why keep so many benches?
Probably because they sold the seats
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 03:47:02 PM
Why keep so many benches?
They will all be occupied.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 03:49:58 PM
Probably because they sold the seats
I just spoke to a friend who told me that his seats were taken away. He called to say he wanted to pay for his seats, and was told that he missed the deadline and lost his seats for this year (he also has a high risk child at home and was not necessarily planning on coming to 770).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 18, 2020, 03:51:42 PM
What’s next? An Eruv by the Rabbonim of Crown Heights?

The things 2020 has accomplished...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 18, 2020, 05:24:03 PM
The things 2020 has accomplished...

I will be shocked if it happens, but not surprised.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 20, 2020, 08:39:36 PM

What’s next? An Eruv by the Rabbonim of Crown Heights?

This is actually in the works
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: incendia on September 20, 2020, 09:37:36 PM
Probably because they sold the seats

They will all be occupied.

Why would they sell seats if they knew the circumstances would now allow for a packed shul?

We've known how dangerous Covid is for 6 months, and the 33% rule has been around since June or July
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 20, 2020, 09:39:21 PM
Why would they sell seats if they knew the circumstances would now allow for a packed shul?

We've known how dangerous Covid is for 6 months, and the 33% rule has been around since June or July

Do you mind trolling somewhere else, please.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: incendia on September 20, 2020, 09:43:48 PM
Do you mind trolling somewhere else, please.

Why do you think that's a troll?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 25, 2020, 09:12:58 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-43.html?m=1
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 25, 2020, 09:21:57 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-43.html?m=1

We need someone to rise to the task of analyzing their statemens and changes in language in a similar manner to the analysis of the FOMC statements are analyzed.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on September 25, 2020, 10:54:32 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-43.html?m=1
Is it just me, or does it look like they’re stepping it down a little from previous updates?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on September 25, 2020, 11:07:38 AM
Is it just me, or does it look like they’re stepping it down a little from previous updates?
I wonder if it's because CH isn't being hit as hard as other frum communities this time, which lends credence to their "mass immunity" theory.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on September 25, 2020, 11:14:36 AM
I wonder if it's because CH isn't being hit as hard as other frum communities this time, which lends credence to their "mass immunity" theory.
Yes I’m wondering if they have a higher level of immunity there, or perhaps they were more proactive in distancing/mask wearing/ protecting the high risk.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on September 25, 2020, 11:17:41 AM
Is it just me, or does it look like they’re stepping it down a little from previous updates?

I can only speculate, but it's possible they're trying to maintain calm. They weren't very happy that Dr. Rosen's conversation with officials about potential shul and school closings leaked. They could be trying to temper some of the rhetoric. Just my guess.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 25, 2020, 11:20:05 AM
We need someone to rise to the task of analyzing their statemens and changes in language in a similar manner to the analysis of the FOMC statements are analyzed.

Right. *That's* the issue. We need a Nachshon to "rise to the task" of bringing down the Gedaliah Society - the notorious Big Pharma Conglomerate the group of individuals who rose to the challenge at the start of this mageifa when everyone was clueless, afraid, and uncertain, and even community leadership was silent. We need a Nachshon to take down the real life, modern day Nachsons who have done their best to balance protecting the community with guidelines that people will actually follow and not push back on.

As Chassidim, shouldn't we be doing things even on the slightest of off chances it could help someone else? Even if it makes us uncomfortable? Even if we believe them to be useless? Isn't that the very embodiment of Chossid sorfan? Why, for instance, do we have hundreds of people cramming into a tight space, even if it is outdoors, and when the organizers are begging everyone to put on masks as they walk in - and give out free masks - yet still ~30% of people don't wear them?

It's a fluid situation. What we know about the virus is constantly changing. They're doing the best they can on a volunteer basis. Instead of harping on verbiage changes and being cynical about every suggestion they make because we are all so frieking smart and know so much better than everyone, maybe let's try do better at actually being Chassidim - acting with midas Chassidus - and follow their reasonable guidelines, keep people safe, and keep schools and shuls open safely.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on September 25, 2020, 11:32:19 AM
Yes I’m wondering if they have a higher level of immunity there, or perhaps they were more proactive in distancing/mask wearing/ protecting the high risk.
They definitely did more there over RH than Lakewood.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 25, 2020, 11:35:13 AM
Right. *That's* the issue. We need a Nachshon to "rise to the task" of bringing down the Gedaliah Society - the notorious Big Pharma Conglomerate the group of individuals who rose to the challenge at the start of this mageifa when everyone was clueless, afraid, and uncertain, and even community leadership was silent. We need a Nachshon to take down the real life, modern day Nachsons who have done their best to balance protecting the community with guidelines that people will actually follow and not push back on.

As Chassidim, shouldn't we be doing things even on the slightest of off chances it could help someone else? Even if it makes us uncomfortable? Even if we believe them to be useless? Isn't that the very embodiment of Chossid sorfan? Why, for instance, do we have hundreds of people cramming into a tight space, even if it is outdoors, and when the organizers are begging everyone to put on masks as they walk in - and give out free masks - yet still ~30% of people don't wear them?

It's a fluid situation. What we know about the virus is constantly changing. They're doing the best they can on a volunteer basis. Instead of harping on verbiage changes and being cynical about every suggestion they make because we are all so frieking smart and know so much better than everyone, maybe let's try do better at actually being Chassidim - acting with midas Chassidus - and follow their reasonable guidelines, keep people safe, and keep schools and shuls open safely.

I know it's Friday, and Erev Shabbos Shuva, but I think you've taken things a step beyond.

I made a (somewhat snarky, I will admit) comment about the changing language, which reminded me of how FOMC announcements changes to language are parsed. I had no intention to comment and did not comment on the content of their post.

It seems like some others did indeed notice what I had noticed, but unlike my comment which was just a general one about the changes and more so about how people tend to (over)analyze the language of their posts, the others who posted actually made attempts at such analysis.

I respect and appreciate everything the Gedalia society did, is doing, and is trying to do. I also get a consistent vibe from their posts that they are seem to be extremely careful in their wordings, treading on eggshells, being PC, etc. And while that would probably be a prudent way for me to act and say things publicly, since I do get business from the community, and it's never good to offend or mock anyone, I allow myself to go a little loose with my cynicism in some areas, and more so in this forum.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on September 25, 2020, 11:42:22 AM
I know it's Friday, and Erev Shabbos Shuva, but I think you've taken things a step beyond.

I made a (somewhat snarky, I will admit) comment about the changing language, which reminded me of how FOMC announcements changes to language are parsed. I had not intention and did not comment on the content of their post.

It seems like some others did indeed notice what I had noticed, but unlike my comment which was just a general one about the changes and more so about how people tend to (over)analyze the language of their posts, the others who posted actually made attempts at such analysis.

I respect and appreciate everything the Gedalia society did, is doing, and is trying to do. I also get a consistent vibe from their posts that they are seem to be extremely careful in their wordings, treading on eggshells, being PC, etc. And while that would probably be a prudent way for me to act and say things publicly, since I do get business from the community, and it's never good to offend or mock anyone, I allow myself to go a little loose with my cynicism in some areas, and more so in this forum.

My comment is definitely a step beyond as a response to you, and I'm sorry I unloaded that all on you, but really it's a frustrated response to the general attitiude I am seeing and hearing. When I hear people in stores and Shuls mocking and ridiculing those that are wearing masks, it is really upsetting.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on September 25, 2020, 12:06:51 PM
My comment is definitely a step beyond as a response to you, and I'm sorry I unloaded that all on you, but really it's a frustrated response to the general attitiude I am seeing and hearing. When I hear people in stores and Shuls mocking and ridiculing those that are wearing masks, it is really upsetting.

NP.

You've used my lines as your signature tags, and I wear that as a badge of honor!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on September 25, 2020, 12:12:55 PM
You've used my lines as your signature tags, and I wear that as a badge of honor!
I wonder how @Dan feels
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on October 05, 2020, 10:29:47 AM
https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/10/covid-19-update-44.html?m=1
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lev g on October 06, 2020, 07:00:02 PM
In the new Cuomo hak a tchaynik, Is CH considered a orange area?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2020, 07:13:55 PM
In the new Cuomo hak a tchaynik, Is CH considered a orange area?
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/ny-governor-cuomo-orders-shutdown-non-essential-businesses-mass-gatherings-adds-limitations-houses-worship-select-areas/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 06, 2020, 07:25:49 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/ny-governor-cuomo-orders-shutdown-non-essential-businesses-mass-gatherings-adds-limitations-houses-worship-select-areas/

Evidently, not even yellow.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 06, 2020, 07:51:32 PM
Evidently, not even yellow.

Can you imagine if Cuomo turns Queens yellow and makes CH ois yellow?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on October 06, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
Evidently, not even yellow.

Proof what a farce these color zones are. South Brooklyn was all painted yellow with a broad brush and 11213 is ignored.

I’m not complaining, but he can call himself scientific all he wants, this is one more decision that’s reactive and at best semi-scientific (whatever that means).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2020, 09:55:22 PM
Evidently, not even yellow.
Yellow isn't for areas close to 3%, it's for areas around the red zones to that people can't just go to the next block over.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 06, 2020, 09:55:33 PM
Can you imagine if Cuomo turns Queens yellow and makes CH ois yellow?

U.n.b.e.l.i.e.v.a.b.l.e.!

(Now I understand what happened to the yellow flag that I saw the other day on my neighbor's Sukkah).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lev g on October 07, 2020, 12:14:14 AM
Yellow isn't for areas close to 3%, it's for areas around the red zones to that people can't just go to the next block over.

If you look at the map it doesn’t make sense, it literally looks like a bucket of paint just flipped over.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: zh cohen on October 07, 2020, 10:35:27 AM
Yellow isn't for areas close to 3%, it's for areas around the red zones to that people can't just go to the next block over.

How does that work in Rockland? There are no red zones, only Orange and yellow.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 10:37:03 AM
How does that work in Rockland? There are no red zones, only Orange and yellow.
According to ny.gov it's red and yellow. I don't understand it.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-cluster-action-initiative#initiativemaps
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on October 07, 2020, 11:56:51 AM
All they are doing IMHO is having mass testing by people who got it prior.

Way to skew the numbers and bring the positivity rate down
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: avromie7 on October 07, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
All they are doing IMHO is having mass testing by people who got it prior.

Way to skew the numbers and bring the positivity rate down
They use an inaccurate metric and you're surprised people are messing with it?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 06:38:30 PM
Set up a system that is easy to game and you are asking for people to game it.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 06:41:34 PM
Set up a system that is easy to game and you are asking for people to game it.
Spoken like a true economist
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: cmey on October 07, 2020, 06:44:19 PM
The Gedaliah Society is on board
https://collive.com/gedaliah-society-clarifies-on-community-covid-testing/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 06:47:10 PM
FWIW if asymptomatic people run to get tested they may pick up extra positives (false or otherwise) and skew the numbers the other way. Who knows!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 06:48:53 PM
The Gedaliah Society is on board
https://collive.com/gedaliah-society-clarifies-on-community-covid-testing/

No reason not to be. Did you notice the difference in language between the CH call to test and other places? Pretty big deal...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 06:49:04 PM
FWIW if asymptomatic people run to get tested they may pick up extra positives (false or otherwise) and skew the numbers the other way. Who knows!
Which would also be a good thing since they would no longer be spreading to others unless they are COVIDiots
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 06:50:36 PM
Which would also be a good thing since they would no longer be spreading to others unless they are COVIDiots
Right
But it would be rather inconvenient for the false positives.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: cmey on October 07, 2020, 06:50:58 PM
FWIW if asymptomatic people run to get tested they may pick up extra positives (false or otherwise) and skew the numbers the other way. Who knows!
They are looking to lower the percent positive number. There are obviously a higher  percentage of positives among symptomatic people than non symptomatic so it can only help.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 06:51:56 PM
FWIW if asymptomatic people run to get tested they may pick up extra positives (false or otherwise) and skew the numbers the other way. Who knows!

This is definitely a factor in the doctors signing off. If they can get all the presymptomatic people off the streets before Simchas Torah, mah tov u'mah naim.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 06:52:55 PM
Right
But it would be rather inconvenient for the false positives.
I don't think those are as common as some here make it seem.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 06:53:54 PM
I don't think those are as common as some here make it seem.
I wouldn't know. By false positives do we refer both to people who were not sick, and also to people who were sick a few weeks ago and are no longer contagious?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 07, 2020, 06:54:59 PM
They are looking to lower the percent positive number. There are obviously a higher  percentage of positives among symptomatic people than non symptomatic so it can only help.
I don't think this is clear cut at all. When there's a rampant outbreak of a disease which can have very mild symptoms and pre-symptomatic positives, I think this is a huge gamble and may lead to a even bigger spike.

To be fair, to achieve what they want in the timeline that they wish (lower positivity rate within the next week), they don't really have another choice.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 06:57:42 PM
and also to people who were sick a few weeks ago and are no longer contagious?

How would anyone know whether or not they are no longer contagious?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: cmey on October 07, 2020, 06:59:00 PM
I don't think this is clear cut at all. When there's a rampant outbreak of a disease which can have very mild symptoms and pre-symptomatic positives, I think this is a huge gamble and may lead to a even bigger spike.

To be fair, to achieve what they want in the timeline that they wish (lower positivity rate within the next week), they don't really have another choice.
You believe that a random sampling of 100 symptomatic people and another sampling of 100 healthy people will yield an identical percent positive? I find that hard to accept.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: grodnoking on October 07, 2020, 07:01:14 PM
I don't think those are as common as some here make it seem.
For my family we had 3/7 have false positives 2 months after contracting it.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 07, 2020, 07:01:18 PM
You believe that a random sampling of 100 symptomatic people and another sampling of 100 healthy people will yield an identical percent positive? I find that hard to accept.
Given a large enough sample size (they're going for thousands of test, not hundreds), I believe that there's a decent chance that it could cause a spike. Not saying that it's definite, rather that it's a gamble and not a no brained.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 07:01:49 PM
How would anyone know whether or not they are no longer contagious?
Correct
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: incendia on October 07, 2020, 07:03:47 PM
FWIW if asymptomatic people run to get tested they may pick up extra positives (false or otherwise) and skew the numbers the other way. Who knows!

It will undoubtedly get a few positive results. If a testing drive designed only for healthy people gets more than 3% that's a serous issue and shutdowns are probably warranted.

Even if it raises rates in the short-term it should lower them in the medium-term because those people will, hopefully act responsibly and, isolate thus slowing the spread. In the long-term we all die.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: cmey on October 07, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
Given a large enough sample size (they're going for thousands of test, not hundreds), I believe that there's a decent chance that it could cause a spike. Not saying that it's definite, rather that it's a gamble and not a no brained.
From what I understand, and the Igud harabbanim robo call that just went out spelled this out birachel bitcha haketana, (especially in Lakewood) the governor told askanim he needs a lower percent positivity- it’s over 20% right now-to give him political cover. He doesn’t care so much about the raw number. Therefore  it can only help to test the non symptomatic.You are talking about absolute numbers but that is not the focus.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 07:06:47 PM
Just important to spell something out here: the CH drive specifically asks symptomatic people to get tested, as well, just not at the main location. They ask that symptomatic people contact their local doctors for testing options. They may be trying to skew the numbers, but without compromising anyone's health and safety.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 07, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
Given a large enough sample size (they're going for thousands of test, not hundreds), I believe that there's a decent chance that it could cause a spike. Not saying that it's definite, rather that it's a gamble and not a no brained.

CH is not going to get thousands of people to test. Would be a lot if they hit 1k
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 07, 2020, 07:11:09 PM
CH is not going to get thousands of people to test. Would be a lot if they hit 1k
Good point. Was thinking of Lakewood.

Plus CH probably is less of a risk given the percentage of people with antibodies.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 07, 2020, 07:19:04 PM
My question is, the official rules are that just 2 positives in a school closes the school. Even if the rate drops, wouldn't there almost certainly be a few positives which would effectively shut the schools?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 07:20:40 PM
My question is, the official rules are that just 2 positives in a school closes the school. Even if the rate drops, wouldn't there almost certainly be a few positives which would effectively shut the schools?
Then they should have done this the day after Y"K :)
Shut schools for two weeks and then done!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 07:30:06 PM
Right
But it would be rather inconvenient for the false positives.
There aren’t really very many false positives, though there are quite a large number of false negatives. If you’ve had the virus fairly recently and know that you aren’t contagious anymore you probably shouldn’t test
You believe that a random sampling of 100 symptomatic people and another sampling of 100 healthy people will yield an identical percent positive? I find that hard to accept.
I’m it saying I agree (I don’t) but if the spread is occurring faster than we are detecting it then it’s plausible
For my family we had 3/7 have false positives 2 months after contracting it.
That’s not a false positive, that’s a very sensitive test. A false positive would be if the test detects virus particle in someone does not have the virus inside of their nose.

If you’ve had COVID in this wave, you should probably not be joining the ranks of those testing to lower the rate. Otherwise, if it says you’re positive, you’re probably positive.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 07:33:28 PM
From what I understand, and the Igud harabbanim robo call that just went out spelled this out birachel bitcha haketana, (especially in Lakewood) the governor told askanim he needs a lower percent positivity- it’s over 20% right now-to give him political cover. He doesn’t care so much about the raw number. Therefore  it can only help to test the non symptomatic.You are talking about absolute numbers but that is not the focus.
Actually, @Euclid is talking about percentage, but you bring up a good point. With such a large number of positives, even with percent positivity dropping, the sheer number of new cases can also bring negative scrutiny. You realize that with a serious drive we will probably account for 50-90% of NJs total numbers over the next week?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 07:34:45 PM
Btw I added 4 negatives to the Lakewood totals this week, so you can’t say I’m a spoil sport  ;D
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 07:36:49 PM
Btw I added 4 negatives to the Lakewood totals this week, so you can’t say I’m a spoil sport  ;D
I added 2 positives twice and total 10 negatives.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 07, 2020, 07:39:22 PM
Do rapids count?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 07:51:25 PM
Do rapids count?
I didn’t think so but recently someone posted that they do
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
The Gedaliah Society is on board
https://collive.com/gedaliah-society-clarifies-on-community-covid-testing/

When I saw your post I thought I would see something on the Gedaliah Society blog. When I saw nothing there I checked a non-blocked news website, and realized that this information is coming from the most powerful entities in Crown Heights - the schools, rather than the Gedaliah Society themselves.

This is a piece of the puzzle falling into place, after a conversation I had this afternoon with a menahel of one of the schools, and when I mentioned the Gedaliah Society the tone of the response sounded like they are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
When I saw your post I thought I would see something on the Gedaliah Society blog. When I saw nothing there I checked a non-blocked news website, and realized that this information is coming from the most powerful entities in Crown Heights - the schools, rather than the Gedaliah Society themselves.

This a a piece of the puzzle falling into place, after a conversation I had this afternoon with a menahel of one of the schools, and when I mentioned the Gedaliah Society the tone of the response sounded like they are irrelevant.
Sounds typical of people in positions of power
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
Did a little digging, and Gedaliah Society signing off on the drive is not so clear cut. They officially are not taking a stance either way.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
Did a little digging, and Gedaliah Society signing off on the drive is not so clear cut. They officially are not taking a stance either way.


Yawn
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Moshe123 on October 12, 2020, 08:21:18 PM
So where are they a month later after OP?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 12, 2020, 08:24:09 PM
If there aren't at least a few hundred new cases in the next few days.. the crown heights covid-19 science lab pretty much proves that anything you every heard about social distancing is false and indeed a hoax.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 12, 2020, 08:24:16 PM
So where are they a month later after OP?

https://anash.org/the-rebbe-is-watching-over-crown-heights/

Quote
Communities around New York City are experiencing a surge in new COVID-19 cases, prompting Governor Cuomo to institute a three-tiered system for new rules and restrictions in New York’s high-risk cluster zones and surrounding areas.

While many Jewish communities throughout Brooklyn and Queens found themselves in the governor’s red zones just ahead of Simchas Torah, Crown Heights fared relatively well and is not in any of the three zones.

During a Pre-Simchas Torah conference call with New York State officials, a senior New York State health officer remarked to Rabbi Chanina Sperlin that “the Rebbe surely must be watching over Crown Heights.”

The comment came during a discussion about the uptick in new COVID cases in the city overall, and the remarkably low numbers in the Crown Heights community compared to the surrounding communities.

Rabbi Sperlin, who serves as Executive Vice President of Governmental Affairs at the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council told Anash.org about the phone call and official’s amazement at the events in Crown Heights.

“He told me that despite expectations, Crown Heights is not in any red or yellow zone. He told me that the only explanation could be that Rebbe is watching over Crown Heights,” Rabbi Sperlin said.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 12, 2020, 08:24:51 PM
If there aren't at least a few hundred new cases in the next few days.. the crown heights covid-19 science lab pretty much proves that anything you every heard about social distancing is false and indeed a hoax.

Why?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 12, 2020, 08:28:17 PM
I'm scared to tell you what happened there
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 12, 2020, 08:34:38 PM
I'm scared to tell you what happened there

It was ST in CH. One can imagine.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 12, 2020, 08:43:00 PM
https://anash.org/crown-heights-schools-will-test-students-for-covid/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on October 12, 2020, 10:09:15 PM
Not if people aren't testing....
If there aren't at least a few hundred new cases in the next few days.. the crown heights covid-19 science lab pretty much proves that anything you every heard about social distancing is false and indeed a hoax.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 12, 2020, 10:44:51 PM
I'm scared to tell you what happened there

770 had full SD during ST. There were sections where it was kept to 6ft, sections where it was kept to 6in, and sections where it was kept to 6μ.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yo ssi on October 12, 2020, 10:52:06 PM
770 had full SD during ST. There were sections where it was kept to 6ft, sections where it was kept to 6in, and sections where it was kept to 6μm.
FTFY
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on October 12, 2020, 10:58:53 PM
If there aren't at least a few hundred new cases in the next few days.. the crown heights covid-19 science lab pretty much proves that anything you every heard about social distancing is false and indeed a hoax.
I came here to post pretty much the same thing. Although, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it's false and a hoax, (it might have been relevant all the way in the beginning,) but if there's no serious outbreak within the next week or max 2 weeks I think we can definitively say that the danger is behind us at this point. (I don't even want to say what the alternative could ch"v be... )

Not if people aren't testing....
-1

If people aren't getting sick enough to need testing then it's all irrelevant.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on October 12, 2020, 11:13:58 PM
Some want to say not to test even if sick
Just quarantine
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on October 12, 2020, 11:14:25 PM
Not saying I say that...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on October 12, 2020, 11:21:38 PM
Some want to say not to test even if sick
Just quarantine
That's kinda my point. If what we're calling "getting sick" now is only something where you can just wait it out at home on your own without needing Drs etc then there's really not much to worry about.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 12, 2020, 11:58:39 PM
That's kinda my point. If what we're calling "getting sick" now is only something where you can just wait it out at home on your own without needing Drs etc then there's really not much to worry about.
But that does little to prove anything is a hoax (I know you weren't the OP, just pointing this out).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chief_mag on October 13, 2020, 12:43:17 AM
That's kinda my point. If what we're calling "getting sick" now is only something where you can just wait it out at home on your own without needing Drs etc then there's really not much to worry about.
From what I heard about the OT bubble, basically all the individuals who tested positive were asymptomatic or had incredibly weak symptoms.
Perhaps the strain that has been going around September/October in CH, is much weaker.

I've been her all the way since March, and know many people the same age (as OT), that got COVID then, and experienced far worse symptoms.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on October 18, 2020, 04:38:07 PM
Now that tishrei is over and guests are leaving and there were no deaths from Corona in crown heights(that's with guests coming in, simchas beis on Kingston, 770 open.....), why are we still listening to the gedalia society? The week before rosh hashanah they went on a panic porn campaign
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 18, 2020, 04:43:18 PM
Now that tishrei is over and guests are leaving and there were no deaths from Corona in crown heights(that's with guests coming in, simchas beis on Kingston, 770 open.....), why are we still listening to the gedalia society? The week before rosh hashanah they went on a panic porn campaign

1) they are the reason all those positives from 770 and OT were immediately quarantined before Tishrei, stopping potential spread.
2) many, many higher risk people took their warnings seriously and took extra precautions.

The problems with warnings and precautions actually working is that you have nothing to point to in order to say, "This worked." You can't prove something that didn't happen.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 18, 2020, 04:44:11 PM
Now that tishrei is over and guests are leaving and there were no deaths from Corona in crown heights(that's with guests coming in, simchas beis on Kingston, 770 open.....), why are we still listening to the gedalia society? The week before rosh hashanah they went on a panic porn campaign

One of my sons told me today that he emailed them a question, in order to determine if he will still consider listening to them. Their last response to an email question from me didn't garner much respect for them on my behalf.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 04:56:03 PM
Now that tishrei is over and guests are leaving and there were no deaths from Corona in crown heights(that's with guests coming in, simchas beis on Kingston, 770 open.....), why are we still listening to the gedalia society? The week before rosh hashanah they went on a panic porn campaign

Dude, they were quite measured and relaxed with their guidelines. Calling that panic porn is just...I don't even have the words for it, and that's supposed to be my thang.

It's amazing how they became such a boogeyman. Maybe I'm just foolishly naive, but they stand to gain no power, no money, nothing, and their tone has never been panic inducing, even at the height of the trauma. Yet you'd think they were on Cuomo's payroll the way some speak of them.

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
One of my sons told me today that he emailed them a question, in order to determine if he will still consider listening to them. Their last response to an email question from me didn't garner much respect for them on my behalf.

Not me, but the bnei Torah in bnei brak want too know why you don't sleep in the sukkah?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 18, 2020, 04:57:38 PM
One of my sons told me today that he emailed them a question, in order to determine if he will still consider listening to them. Their last response to an email question from me didn't garner much respect for them on my behalf.
Sounds like they realized what he was up to...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
1) they are the reason all those positives from 770 and OT were immediately quarantined before Tishrei, stopping potential spread.
2) many, many higher risk people took their warnings seriously and took extra precautions.

The problems with warnings and precautions actually working is that you have nothing to point to in order to say, "This worked." You can't prove something that didn't happen.
Amazing that people don't get this. No matter what happens it's a lose-lose in their eyes.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on October 18, 2020, 05:15:24 PM


1) they are the reason all those positives from 770 and OT were immediately quarantined before Tishrei, stopping potential spread.
2) many, many higher risk people took their warnings seriously and took extra precautions.

The problems with warnings and precautions actually working is that you have nothing to point to in order to say, "This worked." You can't prove something that didn't happen.

1. Ot had no bubble, before rosh hashana plenty of bochrim left the bubble, (I have a relative in ot zal)

2. There was plenty of old people in 770
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 18, 2020, 05:18:59 PM

1. Ot had no bubble, before rosh hashana plenty of bochrim left the bubble, (I have a relative in ot zal)

2. There was plenty of old people in 770

IOW, not everyone listened, so it's like it never happened.

Look, do what you're gonna do, but don't crap on people who selflessly give of the little spare time they have to keep people healthy and safe.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 06:08:03 PM
This past week has been absolutely infuriating. The way some parents have gone absolutely insane with wild conspiracy theories to fight schools who are doing their darndest to stay open has been stupefying. People have lost their minds.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on October 18, 2020, 06:54:05 PM
This past week has been absolutely infuriating. The way some parents have gone absolutely insane with wild conspiracy theories to fight schools who are doing their darndest to stay open has been stupefying. People have lost their minds.
some of those loudest individuals had lost it a long time ago
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 07:06:23 PM
some of those loudest individuals had lost it a long time ago

Yes, but the amount of normal people who are going along with them is what changed.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 18, 2020, 07:08:25 PM

1. Ot had no bubble, before rosh hashana plenty of bochrim left the bubble, (I have a relative in ot zal)

2. There was plenty of old people in 770
I don't know the facts on the ground in CH at all, but even if they weren't 100% effective it could have potentially made a tremendous difference.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on October 18, 2020, 07:19:21 PM
If the bubble went on for long enough to miss the contagion window, and/or the spaced out RH in 770 prevented the wildfire spread to those (20/30/50%) still vulnerable, then we may have בע"ה dodged this slice of the wave.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 07:22:36 PM
I live in Crown Heights and work with people from Flatbush, Kensington, Midwood, Far Rockaway, Monsey, and Lakewood. This is obviously anecdotal, but Crown Heights seems to be more compliant in regard to quarantine and isolation. I haven't met or heard of anyone in CH in shul who was supposed to be quarantined or isolated, whereas someone came to the office after being heavily exposed and feeling symptoms (he was promptly sent home and tested positive, surprise surprise). And *everyone* out of CH has similar stories of people coming to shul, going to school and work even after testing positive.

All the precautions may work to varying extents, but staying isolated when you've tested positive and quarantining when you've been directly exposed are no brainers.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on October 18, 2020, 07:24:52 PM
how many people in CH do you know who tested positive period?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 18, 2020, 07:26:18 PM
And *everyone* out of CH has similar stories of people coming to shul, going to school and work even after testing positive.

FTR I don't though I have heard some.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 07:27:00 PM
how many people in CH do you know who tested positive period?

Good point. But I do know some who were exposed to people who tested positive out of ch and did quarantine.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yo ssi on October 18, 2020, 07:27:03 PM
how many people in CH do you know who tested positive period?
Many more then those I know who didn't.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 18, 2020, 07:56:46 PM
In 770 there was first moitzei shabbos selichos, a week later the washing machines for Rosh Hashanah and Yom kippur, followed by dancing every night for a week straight, followed by 3 times hakofos which is approximately 15 hours of sweating together, dancing, drinking from the same cups, sharing the same bites of pickles, sharing the same bottles of water... of course no masks.. With the climax of 2k+ people jammed together for the farbrengen...

 that's with 2k+ of people from all over the world, plenty of them not yet exposed. Keep in mind, most people in crown heights got it over 6 months ago...

WhileI 'm not saying that all of this is normal behavior, the fact that this did not bring to hundreds of cases, the minimum this proves is that whoever had the virus once definitely does not need to be paranoid.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: neveryou on October 18, 2020, 08:08:33 PM
In 770 there was first moitzei shabbos selichos, a week later the washing machines for Rosh Hashanah and Yom kippur, followed by dancing every night for a week straight, followed by 3 times hakofos which is approximately 15 hours of sweating together, dancing, drinking from the same cups, sharing the same bites of pickles, sharing the same bottles of water... of course no masks.. With the climax of 2k+ people jammed together for the farbrengen...

 that's with 2k+ of people from all over the world, plenty of them not yet exposed. Keep in mind, most people in crown heights got it over 6 months ago...

WhileI 'm not saying that all of this is normal behavior, the fact that this did not bring to hundreds of cases, the minimum this proves is that whoever had the virus once definitely does not need to be paranoid.
And people wonder why we don't listen to "science"
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: zh cohen on October 18, 2020, 09:13:04 PM
I live in Crown Heights and work with people from Flatbush, Kensington, Midwood, Far Rockaway, Monsey, and Lakewood. This is obviously anecdotal, but Crown Heights seems to be more compliant in regard to quarantine and isolation. I haven't met or heard of anyone in CH in shul who was supposed to be quarantined or isolated, whereas someone came to the office after being heavily exposed and feeling symptoms (he was promptly sent home and tested positive, surprise surprise). And *everyone* out of CH has similar stories of people coming to shul, going to school and work even after testing positive.

All the precautions may work to varying extents, but staying isolated when you've tested positive and quarantining when you've been directly exposed are no brainers.

There was a voice note from MK going around about someone who had symptoms and tested  before Yom Kippur (didn't get back his positive results until after) and still was chazzan in a CH shul.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 18, 2020, 09:40:44 PM
This past week has been absolutely infuriating. The way some parents have gone absolutely insane with wild conspiracy theories to fight schools who are doing their darndest to stay open has been stupefying. People have lost their minds.

I know of one parent who took a public stance against the insane conspiracy theories. He put his name on a public letter that went around Crown Heights, though two websites published it without his name for some reason.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 09:52:12 PM
I know of one parent who took a public stance against the insane conspiracy theories. He put his name on a public letter that went around Crown Heights, though two websites published it without his name for some reason.

I had a piece written in my head. If I felt it had a chance of making an impact I would have put it to paper
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 09:53:23 PM
There was a voice note from MK going around about someone who had symptoms and tested  before Yom Kippur (didn't get back his positive results until after) and still was chazzan in a CH shul.

True, forgot about that. I stand corrected. Covidiots everywhere!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 18, 2020, 10:13:35 PM
True, forgot about that. I stand corrected. Covidiots everywhere!
AND....????
With all these idiots around, still no cases! What does that tell you???
People have to just stop being paranoid!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 10:17:19 PM
AND....????
With all these idiots around, still no cases! What does that tell you???
People have to just stop being paranoid!

Just so we're clear, you are of the opinion that someone who tested positive for Covid should go to shul, indoors, unmasked, and project his voice as chazan. And if I don't believe such behavior is prudent, I'm paranoid?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on October 18, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
There was a voice note from MK going around about someone who had symptoms and tested  before Yom Kippur (didn't get back his positive results until after) and still was chazzan in a CH shul.
And I heard this story was total bullsh*t, made up to try to get people to comply more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 10:30:52 PM
And I heard this story was total bullsh*t, made up to try to get people to comply more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Who has patience anymore.

ETA, I wanna hear more about the fema camps
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: whYME on October 18, 2020, 10:55:31 PM
Who has patience anymore.

ETA, I wanna hear more about the fema camps
Do you know which shul this was? Admittedly I didn't try very hard, but the little bit of digging I did turned up nothing.

FWIW the person I heard this from is and has been advocating all along for people to be more compliant, it's not like he's looking for excuses here. He says he asked around quite a bit and nobody he asked knew anything and eventually someone told him this (from the way he said it I understood he heard it from someone reliable, not stam overheard mikvah talk)

Which story is true? I have no idea. I'm just sharing what I heard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 11:04:11 PM
Do you know which shul this was? Admittedly I didn't try very hard, but the little bit of digging I did turned up nothing.

FWIW the person I heard this from is and has been advocating all along for people to be more compliant, it's not like he's looking for excuses here. He says he asked around quite a bit and nobody he asked knew anything and eventually someone told him this (from the way he said it I understood he heard it from someone reliable, not stam overheard mikvah talk)

Which story is true? I have no idea. I'm just sharing what I heard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh, I totally believe it could be made up. I wasn't mocking you
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: zh cohen on October 18, 2020, 11:37:25 PM
Who has patience anymore.

The Doctor of the people who daven in that shul?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: zh cohen on October 18, 2020, 11:39:39 PM
Do you know which shul this was? Admittedly I didn't try very hard, but the little bit of digging I did turned up nothing.

FWIW the person I heard this from is and has been advocating all along for people to be more compliant, it's not like he's looking for excuses here. He says he asked around quite a bit and nobody he asked knew anything and eventually someone told him this (from the way he said it I understood he heard it from someone reliable, not stam overheard mikvah talk)

Which story is true? I have no idea. I'm just sharing what I heard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Did he ask MK? In the voicenote he offered to give names
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: joey89 on October 19, 2020, 12:52:44 AM
I know of one parent who took a public stance against the insane conspiracy theories. He put his name on a public letter that went around Crown Heights, though two websites published it without his name for some reason.
Care to post
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 19, 2020, 02:30:49 AM
Care to post

https://crownheights.info/op-ed/716471/op-ed-school-deserve-our-support-not-our-opposition/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Galitzyaner on October 19, 2020, 03:15:45 AM
I know of one parent who took a public stance against the insane conspiracy theories. He put his name on a public letter that went around Crown Heights, though two websites published it without his name for some reason.
You "know of one parent"... In third person.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Galitzyaner on October 19, 2020, 03:20:17 AM
There was a voice note from MK
Love how in his typical yerushalmi fashion he expresses such "shock" at what he saw. You'd think that in his own shul everyone is masked and socially distant. Nonsense.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 19, 2020, 06:18:58 AM
Just so we're clear, you are of the opinion that someone who tested positive for Covid should go to shul, indoors, unmasked, and project his voice as chazan. And if I don't believe such behavior is prudent, I'm paranoid?
Absolutely not! I called him an idiot and he is!
But I'm just putting out that other people (especially people previously exposed) need not to be paranoid (about re-infections, 3 months bla bla etc).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 19, 2020, 06:21:00 AM
Love how in his typical yerushalmi fashion he expresses such "shock" at what he saw. You'd think that in his own shul everyone is masked and socially distant. Nonsense.
He himself is not! I saw him schmoozing on Kingston with no mask
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 19, 2020, 10:15:43 AM
He himself is not! I saw him schmoozing on Kingston with no mask


No one is going to be perfect. If you're outdoors alone, or with your family, you don't need a mask. Then if you meet someone, are you not going to talk to them because you don't have a mask handy? Do your best, follow the rules as much as you can, but most of all, don't mock people who are following more than you and don't curse people who are following less.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: dovy2 on October 19, 2020, 10:25:17 AM

No one is going to be perfect. If you're outdoors alone, or with your family, you don't need a mask. Then if you meet someone, are you not going to talk to them because you don't have a mask handy? Do your best, follow the rules as much as you can, but most of all, don't mock people who are following more than you and don't curse people who are following less.
I am not mocking anyone. Just someone that's going to be very vocal and start bashing other people, needs at minimum to practice what he preaches. Otherwise let him keep his thoughts to himself.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on October 20, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
I know of one parent who took a public stance against the insane conspiracy theories. He put his name on a public letter that went around Crown Heights, though two websites published it without his name for some reason.
Rabbi braun just put out a vn on this.
@Dan I can send it to u if u to post if u want
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 20, 2020, 01:50:13 PM
Rabbi braun just put out a vn on this.
@Dan I can send it to u if u to post if u want

https://soundcloud.com/ddf-sod/braun-testing
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 20, 2020, 02:14:43 PM
I know of one parent who took a public stance against the insane conspiracy theories. He put his name on a public letter that went around Crown Heights, though two websites published it without his name for some reason.
Rabbi braun just put out a vn on this.
@Dan I can send it to u if u to post if u want

Seems to be echoing and essentially saying in his style and detailed elaboration the same thing that was in the public letter, amazing how דעת בעל הבית seems to have matched דעת תורה.

https://soundcloud.com/ddf-sod/braun-testing

Thanks for posting.

Is there any way to speed up soundcloud? If not, maybe it's best to post to YouTube or speed up the mp3 prior to uploading to soundcloud.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 20, 2020, 02:22:56 PM
Seems to be echoing and essentially saying in his style and detailed elaboration the same thing that was in the public letter, amazing how דעת בעל הבית seems to have matched דעת תורה.

He takes it a step further: there is no such thing as personal freedoms or rights when it comes to a moised. Your rights start and stop with your ability to chose to send your child to the school or not.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 20, 2020, 02:58:49 PM
Rabbi braun just put out a vn on this.
@Dan I can send it to u if u to post if u want


Seems to be echoing and essentially saying in his style and detailed elaboration the same thing that was in the public letter, amazing how דעת בעל הבית seems to have matched דעת תורה.

Thanks for posting.

Is there any way to speed up soundcloud? If not, maybe it's best to post to YouTube or speed up the mp3 prior to uploading to soundcloud.

If you don't have the time to listen, I'll just let you know that he is on the side of the Communists, and wants to send your kids to FEMA camps. Also, he wants to poke nasal swabs so far up your child's nostrils it will scrape out brain matter, plus he is joining Satmar's fight against Chabad and wants the schools to use the waiver to take over all medical treatment of your children in perpetuity without liability. I think that's about it.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 20, 2020, 03:12:58 PM
If you don't have the time to listen, I'll just let you know that he is on the side of the Communists, and wants to send your kids to FEMA camps. Also, he wants to poke nasal swabs so far up your child's nostrils it will scrape out brain matter, plus he is joining Satmar's fight against Chabad and wants the schools to use the waiver to take over all medical treatment of your children in perpetuity without liability. I think that's about it.

Hence @Yehuda57's signature line.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 20, 2020, 03:19:23 PM
Hence @Yehuda57's signature line.

Every single one of those claims have been made, without exaggeration.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 20, 2020, 03:56:05 PM
Every single one of those claims have been made, without exaggeration.

I believe you (though I haven't been following the noise) doesn't make your post any less sarcastic.

The fact is that it's extremely sad that people give this nonsense any credence (has anyone put their names on those claims, or are they all Pashkvillen?).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: gozalim on October 20, 2020, 04:05:37 PM
I believe you (though I haven't been following the noise) doesn't make your post any less sarcastic.

The fact is that it's extremely sad that people give this nonsense any credence (has anyone put their names on those claims, or are they all Pashkvillen?).
DG has no issue signing his name
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yelped on October 20, 2020, 08:09:10 PM
What we've seen so far in 2020 seems to confirm the study that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York put out in early March of this year....
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 20, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
What we've seen so far in 2020 seems to confirm the study that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York put out in early March of this year....

?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yelped on October 20, 2020, 10:38:26 PM
?
Was posted here somewhere early on.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr921.pdf
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 20, 2020, 11:41:05 PM
Was posted here somewhere early on.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr921.pdf

Why the CH thread, though? Based on the abstract, it should probably go in the 1936 thread. Interesting that their observations from 1920s-30s Germany seem to fit with where I see this country going over the next decade, albeit with slightly different results (hopefully).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yelped on October 21, 2020, 12:15:30 AM
Why the CH thread, though? Based on the abstract, it should probably go in the 1936 thread. Interesting that their observations from 1920s-30s Germany seem to fit with where I see this country going over the next decade, albeit with slightly different results (hopefully).
True, I just remembered about it, because we were discussing how people start listening to wack jobs, etc.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 21, 2020, 04:49:41 PM
Every single one of those claims have been made, without exaggeration.

And now an email from the school:

Quote
Dear Parents,

We would like to thank all of you for doing your part in keeping our schools open and safe.

We understand the hesitation and discomfort many have felt, and we are aware of the confusion that’s being spread by social media and groups.

This confusion was compounded prior to the recently issued messages from the Rov and Community Doctors. We therefore greatly appreciate the trust you have placed with us.

We hope that the following points will bring more clarification and answer some of your questions.


Testing details

A.      We have been made aware of Kovod Lubavitch issues with the first facility that conducted the testing. We therefore switched to Community Urgent Care to conduct the testing.  If you object to this agency conducting the testing, please reply to this email indicating so. In that case, a weekly negative test result will be required as in #B below. 

B.      As a reminder, you can choose to decline the testing done in school, and obtain a NON-RAPID test from your doctor. In that case, a negative test result must be emailed to .... every Monday to allow your child to come to school. The negative test result needs to be less than 1 week old.

C.      As you surely know by now, the testing follows the CDC guidelines, of a swab not more than half an inch in the nose.

D.      Testing will be conducted every Tuesday 11:AM – 12:PM, unless otherwise communicated. We plan to continue this testing until the point in time that our numbers are considered to be safe enough to not be a public health threat, or a closure threat.

E.       If you would like to be present during the testing, please make sure to be present in school every Tuesday at 11:AM.

F.       Testing if for all students ages 3 and older.

 

Testing Background

G.      It is important to note that it is in our best interest to detect any positive Covid cases in our school, so they can isolate and not transmit it to others.

There have been positive Covid cases in our student and staff body over Yom Tov. Being that this happened while school was not in session, there was no need for any class to go into quarantine.

H.      As you have surely heard, the schools in Boro Park have reached an agreement with the Mayor’s office, that as soon as the positive versus negative rates go down, the schools will be allowed to open.

Our goal from the onset of this campaign has been to prevent the devastating damage that will be caused by school shutdown, as well as to keep our school safe.

We do not want to have to introduce testing as a means to reopen our schools.

I.         While our school had done our share, getting 11213 to have lower numbers will take a community wide effort. It has taken some time, but with the other schools joining in, we will certainly reach this goal.

J.        We encourage all healthy parents and adults to also get tested. This can be done both at school, at your doctor’s office, or at a testing drive.  This will help us achieve more negative results which will benefit the schools.

K.       The testing drive conducted on Sukkos resulted in 0 positives for 11213. The 2 testing conducted in school resulted in 1 false positive. The rates were therefore great in reducing the numbers. That false positive was immediately proven negative with a repeat test.

 

Government

L.       The initiation of this campaign was not on the behest or even discussed with any Government Agency. Nor had we received any indication whatsoever from any governmental authority that this is desired.

M.    We saw the closure order on other Jewish zip codes, the warning on Williamsburg that was averted by mass testing, and the warning issued for 11213 about our rising percentage numbers. It was clear to us that mass testing is necessary to avert a closure order.

N.      Only in the past few days was there public confirmation, from both the Governor and the Mayor, that mass testing resulting in bringing the numbers down would allow for reopening.

O.      We have reached out to the NYC Dep of Health (Deputy Commissioner Torrie Easterling and others) on Friday 28 Tishrei and have also participated in a conference call with the DOH and local doctors on Sunday, Rosh Chodesh Cheshvon.

The following points were made clear:

1.       The only metrics that are being applied to local areas, (zip codes/blocks) are the percentage of positive versus negative testing and hospitalization rates. The amount of positive cases per population will not be used per zip code/blocks, but only for the entire NYC.

2.       Although the City has no established formula for closing an individual Non-Public School that has positive cases, a school that can show frequent confirmation of negative results for the rest of the population will be less likely to face closure, as opposed to a school where there is no data on the rest of the population.

3.       The City is not requiring any testing for any school that is not yet in the hotspot zones. They can only encourage testing, and say that it is a good public health policy.

4.       I asked the DOH if a campaign of mass testing healthy people in order to bring the numbers down is acceptable, as it may be construed as “gaming the system”? DOH responded that they would very much welcome such a campaign resulting in many more negatives, resulting in lower infection rates.

5.       During that phone conference, our local doctors have agreed that mass testing is something positive from a public health point of view. They have stated that they do not have the capacity to handle large volumes, and would prefer that the testing be conducted via a Testing Drive, like what we are doing in the schools.

Explanation of the numbers:
The last 2 weeks ending in Shmini Atzeres, have resulted in the percentage (positive versus negative) going up, despite the fact that actual positive cases have gone down. That is because there were less healthy people being tested, and there were less negative results.

We are waiting for the Shabbos Braishis results to be published.

                                                                                        Percentage                     Positive tests

Week ending      September 19 (Rosh Hashona)            2.41                                       27

Week ending      September 26 (Shabbos Shuva)           1.82                                       34

Week ending      October 3 (Sukkos)                              1.98                                        25

Week ending      October 10 (Shmini Atzeres)                2.23                                       25

The Oct 10  rate would have been higher, if not for the public testing that occurred in Sukkos.

This same rate could have been significantly lower had there been a greater turnout.

 
Additional Info:

https://hamodia.com/2020/10/18/governor-cuomos-sunday-night-conference-call-jewish-leaders/
https://boropark24.com/news/scoop-mayor-de-blasio-meets-with-jewish-community-leaders-who-recommend-increased-testing-to-lower-positivity-rates
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 21, 2020, 04:55:42 PM
And now an email from the school:
(What does kovod lubavitch mean?)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 21, 2020, 05:11:22 PM
(What does kovod lubavitch mean?)

Oh no, not this (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=100475.msg2041700#msg2041700) again
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 21, 2020, 05:58:36 PM
Oh no, not this (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=100475.msg2041700#msg2041700) again
Anthropology is fascinating :)
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: yelped on October 21, 2020, 09:47:21 PM
Oh no, not this (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=100475.msg2041700#msg2041700) again
I remember that, but what does this mean? What was the kovod Lubavitch issues mean? And it is weird to write that...
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 21, 2020, 10:25:26 PM
I remember that, but what does this mean? What was the kovod Lubavitch issues mean? And it is weird to write that...

From what I hear, there was an issue of the owner of the urgent care center originally contracted to do the testing, having a track record of causing problems to some Chabad house.

I have no first or second hand knowledge of those allegations.


So in essence, what is meant here by kovod Lubavitch seems to be self-respect and dignity not to feed the hand that slaps you. Not to be confused with Kiddush Shem Lubavitch which is a different issue.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 21, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
Anthropology is fascinating :)

My wife thinks so too, though personally I hate shopping
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 21, 2020, 10:53:37 PM
Oh no, not this (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=100475.msg2041700#msg2041700) again
Nah, doodle and shkop were COVID-19 Discussion Board victims.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 22, 2020, 12:35:02 AM
Oh no, not this (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=100475.msg2041700#msg2041700) again

Should have mentioned Moshiach!

https://crownheights.info/chabad-news/716842/breaking-kinus-hashluchim-5781-will-be-entirely-virtual/

Quote
“Therefore, we are notifying Shluchim, that this year’s Kinus will not be in person and will be entirely virtual. There will not be any in person programming, meals or hosting. In order to avoid any potential of a Chilul Hashem or Chilul Shem Lubavitch, we are asking Shluchim to please not come to New York during the Kinus dates.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Essen est zich on October 23, 2020, 07:28:53 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/BQcDnHRf/PXL-20201023-112646735-MP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfvhCzS2)

🤦🤦🤦🤦

Whole ch is plastered on these..

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on October 23, 2020, 08:02:14 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQcDnHRf/PXL-20201023-112646735-MP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfvhCzS2)

🤦🤦🤦🤦

Whole ch is plastered on these..



Why now?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 08:08:52 AM
Why now?

They were meant to go up before ST, but the guy was on a bender.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 08:24:51 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQcDnHRf/PXL-20201023-112646735-MP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfvhCzS2)

🤦🤦🤦🤦

Whole ch is plastered on these..

So according to whoever wrote this up, it can be read to mean that drinking 16oz of vodka is fine.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: drosenberg88429 on October 23, 2020, 08:33:00 AM
So according to whoever wrote this up, it can be read to mean that drinking 16oz of vodka is fine.

16oz of zekts un neintzigger.   :P
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on October 23, 2020, 08:34:45 AM
So according to whoever wrote this up, it can be read to mean that drinking 16oz of vodka is fine.

The “*) Approx. 4oz” footnote should have included the word “total”. You need real cognitive dissonance to convince yourself that each kelichke is 4oz.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on October 23, 2020, 08:36:27 AM
16oz of zekts un neintzigger.   :P

That’s stuff you inhale, not drink. How many people do you know that could consume 16oz of that stuff in one sitting?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 08:57:31 AM
That’s stuff you inhale, not drink. How many people do you know that could consume 16oz of that stuff in one sitting?

On ה טבת תשמז I took 7oz of that in one standing. So I'm sure there are those who can take 16oz in one sitting.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 08:59:28 AM
The “*) Approx. 4oz” footnote should have included the word “total”. You need real cognitive dissonance to convince yourself that each kelichke is 4oz.

To some, a 5oz cup is a kelishke. If not filled to the rim one could argue 4oz.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 09:01:16 AM
On ה טבת תשמז I took 7oz of that in one standing. So I'm sure there are those who can take 16oz in one sitting.

How much do you remember after that?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: drosenberg88429 on October 23, 2020, 09:16:15 AM
How much do you remember after that?

Idk, but if he remembers it so distinctly 33 years later it must've been memorable.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 09:18:33 AM
Idk, but if he remembers it so distinctly 33 years later it must've been memorable.

Hey Teves Mem Zayin no one forgets.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: shulemw on October 23, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
What was then if I may ask?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 09:49:18 AM
How much do you remember after that?

I clearly remember Davening mincha in a laying position on the floor of 770, and the sicha (not the content, but the actual fact and a memorable expression). Let's not get into what I recall after mincha.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 10:20:51 AM
What was then if I may ask?

https://jemcentral.org/2020/01/01/heyteves/
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 10:33:41 AM
That’s stuff you inhale, not drink. How many people do you know that could consume 16oz of that stuff in one sitting?

A whole generation
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQcDnHRf/PXL-20201023-112646735-MP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfvhCzS2)

🤦🤦🤦🤦

Whole ch is plastered on these..


This is here because alcohol inhibits COVID?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 11:37:56 AM
This is here because alcohol inhibits COVID?

It's the new method in Covid prevention. If they keep 'em sober, they can try to limit drunk spread.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 11:41:41 AM

Whole ch is plastered on these..

The whole point is to *stop* getting plastered
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 11:42:30 AM

Whole ch is plastered on these..

Someone put up one sign for Shabbos Beraishis and now they'll be doing it all year long
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 11:45:00 AM
The whole point is to *stop* getting plastered
Someone put up one sign for Shabbos Beraishis and now they'll be doing it all year long

On a roll... keep em coming!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2020, 11:46:55 AM
On a roll... keep em coming!
+1
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 11:56:32 AM
Related
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 11:59:01 AM
Related

Looks like @ExGingi's Hey Teves
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 12:22:28 PM
Wait, is this now the thread to post all CH/Chabad related content?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: joey89 on October 23, 2020, 12:23:46 PM
To some, a 5oz cup is a kelishke. If not filled to the rim one could argue 4oz.
He who made the (3) 4 lechaim limit, clearly defined it as a reviis in total. (One can argue a Reviis and 1/3).
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 12:28:32 PM
To some, a 5oz cup is a kelishke. If not filled to the rim one could argue 4oz.

To some shkiah is netz and to others cholent can be parev.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 23, 2020, 12:38:34 PM
To some shkiah is netz and to others cholent can be parev.
Al tikri netz ela nuts
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 12:42:03 PM
Wait, is this now the thread to post all CH/Chabad related content?

If it is, and we're allowing for self promotion

Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 12:43:38 PM
Al tikri netz ela nuts
cholent can be parev.

Al tikri cholent, ela fo'-Lent.

Sorry, Catholic joke.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: EliJelly on October 23, 2020, 01:22:59 PM
kelishke
A new one for me. Definition and origin anyone?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 01:37:02 PM
A new one for me. Definition and origin anyone?

Shot glass.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2020, 01:39:58 PM
kelishke.
A new one for me. Definition and origin anyone?
Wow, is this also a Chabad only yiddish word?
How many of these words are there?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Euclid on October 23, 2020, 01:42:30 PM
Wow, is this also a Chabad only yiddish word?
How many of these words are there?
Maybe it's Russian?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: EliJelly on October 23, 2020, 01:45:57 PM
Wow, is this also a Chabad only yiddish word?
Guess so. In conventional yiddish its a גלעזל.
Maybe it's Russian?
Sounds yiddish
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 23, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
Wow, is this also a Chabad only yiddish word?
How many of these words are there?

Gezhe use a kvort as a kelishke
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: avromie7 on October 23, 2020, 01:49:46 PM
Gezhe use a kvort as a kelishke
Is this a Chabad inside joke?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 02:16:59 PM
Is this a Chabad inside joke?

Joke?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yo ssi on October 23, 2020, 02:18:43 PM
Gezhe use a kvort as a kelishke
And a big one with two handles ;D
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2020, 02:47:28 PM
Gezhe use a kvort as a kelishke
But not more than 4.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 23, 2020, 02:50:39 PM
But not more than 4.

Nobody remembers anyone doing more than 4 of those.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yo ssi on October 23, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Nobody remembers anyone doing more than 4 of those.
Key word
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
Wow, is this also a Chabad only yiddish word?
How many of these words are there?
The only words that didn't translate when I went from a litvishe school to a Chabad school was Bo Bayom, Bekiyos, and Gehenom.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: AsherO on October 23, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
The only words that didn't translate when I went from a litvishe school to a Chabad school was Bo Bayom, Bekiyos, and Gehenom.

What’s Gehenom?

/s
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2020, 03:32:49 PM
Gezhe use a kvort as a kelishke
This another one?
What's a Bendel?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: ExGingi on October 23, 2020, 04:29:35 PM
The only words that didn't translate when I went from a litvishe school to a Chabad school was Bo Bayom, Bekiyos, and Gehenom.

How about Shtaygen?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: aygart on October 24, 2020, 08:54:45 PM
The only words that didn't translate when I went from a litvishe school to a Chabad school was Bo Bayom, Bekiyos, and Gehenom.
Interestingly, I've heard more about gehenom from Lubavitchers on this forum than in all of the yeshiva I've been in put together.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 24, 2020, 08:55:24 PM
Interestingly, I've heard more about gehenom from Lubavitchers on this forum than in all of the yeshiva I've been in put together.

But only how we don't talk about it.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 24, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
This another one?

Dish mushrooms wear bendels, but we won't talk about void farmers and zal bochurim here.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 24, 2020, 09:06:12 PM
Dish mushrooms wear bendels, but we won't talk about void farmers and zal bochurim here.

Oy, the voidness.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 24, 2020, 09:10:05 PM
Oy, the voidness.

Void needs to make a comeback, so long as it doesn't bring its surrounding culture with it.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Lurker on October 24, 2020, 09:18:09 PM
Void needs to make a comeback, so long as it doesn't bring its surrounding culture with it.

There are days when I still hear HaRabi 4 part harmonies with shouts of, "Voidness!" in the background.
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 24, 2020, 09:21:38 PM
There are days when I still hear HaRabi 4 part harmonies with shouts of, "Voidness!" in the background.

So you mean 5 part harmonies
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on October 25, 2020, 05:00:13 AM
While we are on topic, does anyone know the origins of shmayankee?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 25, 2020, 08:31:09 AM
While we are on topic, does anyone know the origins of shmayankee?

You asking because you know or you want to know?
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: chevron on October 26, 2020, 04:53:54 AM
You asking because you know or you want to know?

I'm asking because I want to know


I've had shmayankee In camp, I'm curious how / where it started.

We want shmayankee!
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: Mf1 on October 26, 2020, 07:23:06 AM
I seem to recall it comes from shmaya and yanky who were the "founders" of the show
Title: Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
Post by: lev g on October 26, 2020, 10:19:40 AM
I remember hearing something along the lines, Berel Shemtov gave it as a nick name to shmaryahu gurary, and it came a camp shtick and cought on.