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DansDeals Forum => COVID-19 Discussion Board => Topic started by: Boruch Parnes on October 04, 2020, 09:26:03 PM

Title: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 04, 2020, 09:26:03 PM
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Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: justaregularguy on October 04, 2020, 09:36:17 PM
It does seem the spike began once school restarted so...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 04, 2020, 09:40:16 PM
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Proposed to shut down. He canít actually do a thing
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 04, 2020, 09:42:13 PM
Heís waiting for Cuomoís permission
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: justaregularguy on October 04, 2020, 09:45:52 PM
Heís waiting for Cuomoís permission
so maybe we have a chance bc there's no way cuomo can risk agreeing with deblasio 😝
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 04, 2020, 09:49:42 PM
so maybe we have a chance bc there's no way cuomo can risk agreeing with deblasio 😝
Unless he goes more severe than Deblasio. Careful there
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 04, 2020, 09:52:12 PM
Heís waiting for Cuomoís permission
Itís very clear that Cuomo isnít interested. De blasio wouldnít have gone public with it Cuomo was in approval.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 04, 2020, 09:56:10 PM
Itís very clear that Cuomo isnít interested. De blasio wouldnít have gone public with it Cuomo was in approval.
Cuomo did say that local officials have failed.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SayWhat on October 04, 2020, 11:03:01 PM
Keep in mind that the frum community led a campaign against Cuomo regarding the summer camps. Cuomo needs to figure out who he dislikes more, de Blasio or the frum community (since we know none of these decisions is actually based on public health - just politics).

A Mosod in Brooklyn is having a COVID Testing Drive tomorrow and asking only healthy individuals with antibodies or individuals who are feeling well to come. Lets drive down the positive rate while not addressing the real issue.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: JMHO on October 04, 2020, 11:36:12 PM
A Mosod in Brooklyn is having a COVID Testing Drive tomorrow
Where/what time? PM welcome.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 04, 2020, 11:39:11 PM
It does seem the spike began once school restarted so...
It clearly started before schools opened.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yosel on October 04, 2020, 11:48:01 PM
Keep in mind that the frum community led a campaign against Cuomo regarding the summer camps. Cuomo needs to figure out who he dislikes more, de Blasio or the frum community (since we know none of these decisions is actually based on public health - just politics).

A Mosod in Brooklyn is having a COVID Testing Drive tomorrow and asking only healthy individuals with antibodies or individuals who are feeling well to come. Lets drive down the positive rate while not addressing the real issue. The real issue!!! What is the real issue????
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 05, 2020, 12:01:52 AM
The real issue!!! What is the real issue????

The rent is too damn high.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 05, 2020, 12:03:25 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SayWhat on October 05, 2020, 12:13:58 AM

The real issue is the huge increase in covid cases in the frum communities. Follow what has been going on in Eretz Yisroel, how slowly it resarted and how long it took to get to where it is now where 44 people dies in just one day. This is where we could be heading. Instead of complaining about being singled by the Mayor, maybe a little bit of self introspection is in order. How masks and social distancing were not observed, how we attended weddings with hundred of people indoors. Did we not bring this upon ourselves?

What about the massive Chillul Hashem this has brought - Jews again singled out for spreading disease. We can't just follow the rules like everybody else because we are smarter. We had all the excuses - masks don't work, we have heard immunity, everybody got it already, it can't come back. We as a group very publicly ignored the rules and now there is another outbreak. Wow what a surprise and instead of owing up to what we did all we do is complain about the Mayor (who is a moron and shutting down is a stupid plan).   
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: tmendy226 on October 05, 2020, 12:25:45 AM
Giving official Sukkos vacations - brilliant!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 12:38:04 AM
Giving official Sukkos vacations - brilliant!
Problem is it extends past Sukkos & affects stores too.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 12:41:59 AM
The real issue is the huge increase in covid cases in the frum communities. Follow what has been going on in Eretz Yisroel, how slowly it resarted and how long it took to get to where it is now where 44 people dies in just one day. This is where we could be heading. Instead of complaining about being singled by the Mayor, maybe a little bit of self introspection is in order. How masks and social distancing were not observed, how we attended weddings with hundred of people indoors. Did we not bring this upon ourselves?

What about the massive Chillul Hashem this has brought - Jews again singled out for spreading disease. We can't just follow the rules like everybody else because we are smarter. We had all the excuses - masks don't work, we have heard immunity, everybody got it already, it can't come back. We as a group very publicly ignored the rules and now there is another outbreak. Wow what a surprise and instead of owing up to what we did all we do is complain about the Mayor (who is a moron and shutting down is a stupid plan).   

It was so predictable that this would happen and was predicted by numerous people here. When it actually does happen at least realize where it came from. Blaming anti-semitism now just sounds very much like the way many here have described the Peaceful Protestors.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 05, 2020, 12:49:31 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: drosenberg88429 on October 05, 2020, 12:59:36 AM
A Mosod in Brooklyn is having a COVID Testing Drive tomorrow and asking only healthy individuals with antibodies or individuals who are feeling well to come. Lets drive down the positive rate while not addressing the real issue.

This is going to be standard community wide, I'm sure. Williamsburg has been doing this, and Lakewood is planning to do this too.

It'll take tens of thousands of tests to drive down rates. It looks like about 1000 positive tests in our community. Skewing positivity rates will have to be a community wide effort to be effective.

The reality is that positivity rates are a bit of a weak indicator anyways. It's pretty obvious that you'll get different rates if you're doing compliance tests vs symptomatic/exposed tests. They're messing with a barometer that wasn't too accurate a benchmark to start with.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 05, 2020, 11:06:50 AM
This is going to be standard community wide, I'm sure. Williamsburg has been doing this, and Lakewood is planning to do this too.

It'll take tens of thousands of tests to drive down rates. It looks like about 1000 positive tests in our community. Skewing positivity rates will have to be a community wide effort to be effective.

The reality is that positivity rates are a bit of a weak indicator anyways. It's pretty obvious that you'll get different rates if you're doing compliance tests vs symptomatic/exposed tests. They're messing with a barometer that wasn't too accurate a benchmark to start with.
But its the one the the government swears by, so we will give them a piece of their own medicine.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 11:12:10 AM
But its the one the the government swears by, so we will give them a piece of their own medicine.
IIRC itís one that many here were swearing by for a long time
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 11:24:05 AM
But its the one the the government swears by, so we will give them a piece of their own medicine.
Yup and when the disease spreads rampant that will REALLY show them!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: mochjas on October 05, 2020, 11:36:16 AM
I was thinking the same....
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 05, 2020, 11:38:56 AM
Yup and when the disease spreads rampant that will REALLY show them!
I wasnt saying we shouldnt take precautions and be very careful, but closing business that required masks and were presumably pretty safe when people will just go to a different zip - as the local frum elected officials were saying - seems stupid.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 05, 2020, 11:46:21 AM
What should really be happening is enforcement of existing rules regarding schools and simchas where most of the spread is occurring.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 05, 2020, 11:54:40 AM
I was thinking the same....
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together is thinking the same.
I believe it's not about stopping the spread. Rather a threat against the small businesses in those areas, so the leaders of the community will be pressured to take action.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 11:59:56 AM
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together is thinking the same.
I believe it's not about stopping the spread. Rather a threat against the small businesses in those areas, so the leaders of the community will be pressured to take action.
Many small businesses have no intention of closing. Sounds more like he wants to punish these zip codes.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: zh cohen on October 05, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Can anyone explain what the logic behind this metric (rate of positive tests) is?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 12:40:01 PM
Can anyone explain what the logic behind this metric (rate of positive tests) is?
Please donít mention logic & Deblasio in the same thread. EVER!!!!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 05, 2020, 12:40:47 PM
 And here you have it.
Gov. Cuomo orders NYC schools closed tomorrow in 9 hot spot zip codes - one day ahead of NYC Mayor's plan
(https://i.postimg.cc/3Nvr9qNr/IMG-20201005-WA0006.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T5TX3CnB)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 05, 2020, 12:44:42 PM
Unless he goes more severe than Deblasio. Careful there
debalsio wanted wed so cuomo shuting down the schools on tue!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 12:46:31 PM
Can anyone explain what the logic behind this metric (rate of positive tests) is?
Sure, what exactly is your question?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 05, 2020, 12:46:58 PM
Why are we still testing???  Our communities are testing like crazy,  therefore positivity rate is higher than other places.

But somewhere in my heart I feel antisemitism.   Its not a coincidence that 9 zip codes, that are coincidentally where all NYC Jewish people live, are being shut down
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 12:47:40 PM
He didn't give an end date for school closings. I guess he will use that to threaten community leaders in his meeting tomorrow
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 12:48:18 PM
Why are we still testing???  Our communities are testing like crazy,  therefore positivity rate is higher than other places.

But somewhere in my heart I feel antisemitism.   Its not a coincidence that 9 zip codes, that are coincidentally where all NYC Jewish people live, are being shut down
Also not a coincidence that they are having an outbreak in  those zipcodes
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 12:48:52 PM
More testing doesn't cause higher positivity rate....
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Euclid on October 05, 2020, 12:49:06 PM
Why are we still testing???  Our communities are testing like crazy,  therefore positivity rate is higher than other places.

But somewhere in my heart I feel antisemitism.   Its not a coincidence that 9 zip codes, that are coincidentally where all NYC Jewish people live, are being shut down
The virus is antisemitic
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 05, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
The virus is racist
FTFY
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: tov hashem on October 05, 2020, 12:49:55 PM
Isnít it a clear fact that the fatality rate is lower this time. So what the hack?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 05, 2020, 12:50:03 PM
Private schools too?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 05, 2020, 12:50:11 PM
You think its our messed up ashkenazic genetics?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 12:50:38 PM


Jews that aren't being careful and are allowing the virus to surge are antisemitic

Ftfy
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: zh cohen on October 05, 2020, 12:51:01 PM
Sure, what exactly is your question?

What useful information does positivity rate give us given the fact that there is no consistent standard as to who gets tested?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
But somewhere in my heart I feel antisemitism.   Its not a coincidence that 9 zip codes, that are coincidentally where all NYC Jewish people live, are being shut down
Nothing to do with AS. When reopening began it was made very clear they would be monitoring the numbers. And we all begged to be allowed to reopen & weíll follow all the rules, just let us open the schools & stores. 99.9% have been ignoring the rules. What do you expect ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 12:52:33 PM


You think its our messed up idea that we don't have to follow the rules and trying to get away with everything?

FTFY
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: zh cohen on October 05, 2020, 12:53:49 PM
where all NYC Jewish people live, are being shut down

Are Williamsburg and crown heights being shut down?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: tov hashem on October 05, 2020, 12:56:03 PM

FTFY
i hope we act like with the camps
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 12:56:44 PM
Private schools too?
especially
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 12:58:17 PM
Cuomo threatening shuls too.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
What useful information does positivity rate give us given the fact that there is no consistent standard as to who gets tested?
There are two numbers that are looked at typically, total new cases and percent positive. If you just report cases, you can get into issues such as NY seeming to have fewer cases than FL because fewer tests were administered when NY had its wave than FL. So by combining that with positivity rate, we have a clearer idea of how widespread infection truly is. When NY is reporting 1,000 new cases but 50% of people testing are positive, itís safe to assume that there is a very high rate of cases in the city that are not being reported/tested (which is what happened here in March). When FL reports 5,000 new cases a day but only 15% of people testing are positive, itís safe to assume that there isnít nearly as a high a rate of undetected cases in the community.

When there is a steady number of tests being administered, and total cases and/or positivity increases, you can be sure there is a rising number of infections relative to those that remained steady.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yoel on October 05, 2020, 01:05:23 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1906926/breaking-nyc-yeshivas-in-9-zip-codes-closed-governor-warns-shuls.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 05, 2020, 01:07:10 PM
Nothing to do with AS. When reopening began it was made very clear they would be monitoring the numbers. And we all begged to be allowed to reopen & weíll follow all the rules, just let us open the schools & stores. 99.9% have been ignoring the rules. What do you expect ?
that's true, however, is just shutting down those zipcodes going to do anything to curb the numbers? I don't think so, in fact it just might make it worse for the whole city.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
that's true, however, is just shutting down those zipcodes going to do anything to curb the numbers? I don't think so, in fact it just might make it worse for the whole city.
100%. But the decision doesnít stem from antisemitism.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 05, 2020, 01:08:58 PM
that's true, however, is just shutting down those zipcodes going to do anything to curb the numbers? I don't think so, in fact it just might make it worse for the whole city.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together is thinking the same.
I believe it's not about stopping the spread. Rather a threat against the small businesses in those areas, so the leaders of the community will be pressured to take action.
Many small businesses have no intention of closing. Sounds more like he wants to punish these zip codes.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 01:13:37 PM
Itís very much a power play and trying to show Frum communities that heís boss. Disgusting.

To say itís pure anti-semitism is idiotic, though.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 05, 2020, 01:17:42 PM

FTFY
Don't fix my text if I didn't ask for it.   It's not about following the rules, because last I checked all protests around the U.S. were not following cdc guidelines.

Obviously its A. Our infection rate which is high, or B. We are testing way more...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 01:19:36 PM
Itís very much a power play and trying to show Frum communities that heís boss. Disgusting.

To say itís pure anti-semitism is idiotic, though.

He made a pretty good case that maybe just maybe some NEED a boss.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
Don't fix my text if I didn't ask for it.   It's not about following the rules, because last I checked all protests around the U.S. were not following cdc guidelines.

Obviously its A. Our infection rate which is high, or B. We are testing way more...
The protests are mostly outdoors & from what Iíve seen most are wearing masks (for one reason or another).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
Don't fix my text if I didn't ask for it.   It's not about following the rules, because last I checked all protests around the U.S. were not following cdc guidelines.

Obviously its A. Our infection rate which is high, or B. We are testing way more...
The fact that someone else didn't follow the rules and you happen not to know if that caused a surge(and maybe it didn't) is not by any means proof that guidelines don't work, and lack of adherence won't cause a surge
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
Don't fix my text if I didn't ask for it.   It's not about following the rules, because last I checked all protests around the U.S. were not following cdc guidelines.

Obviously its A. Our infection rate which is high, or B. We are testing way more...
He was doing you a favor. No matter how much you harp on the (outdoor, somewhat/largely masked, irrelevant) protests, there is no denying that the frum communities completely abandoned the rules while the neighboring communities did not. The obvious effect of the virus surging in said frum communities but not the neighboring communities is now impossible to argue against.

When it inevitably spills over and creates a new wave in other communities Iím betting the ĎSee, masks donít workĒ crowd will be right back at it.

Spare us the Ashkenazic eugenics argument, please. (Oh, and Deal is having an outbreak as well).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 05, 2020, 01:22:15 PM
Itís very much a power play and trying to show Frum communities that heís boss. Disgusting.

To say itís pure anti-semitism is idiotic, though.
and also that he can say he did such a good job making sure there is no second wave, otherwise the one person who was going to buy his book wont buy it now.
He knows that the community will start testing healthy people now, which will drive down the numbers and he can proudly say I DID IT.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: zh cohen on October 05, 2020, 01:32:00 PM
There are two numbers that are looked at typically, total new cases and percent positive. If you just report cases, you can get into issues such as NY seeming to have fewer cases than FL because fewer tests were administered when NY had its wave than FL. So by combining that with positivity rate, we have a clearer idea of how widespread infection truly is. When NY is reporting 1,000 new cases but 50% of people testing are positive, itís safe to assume that there is a very high rate of cases in the city that are not being reported/tested (which is what happened here in March). When FL reports 5,000 new cases a day but only 15% of people testing are positive, itís safe to assume that there isnít nearly as a high a rate of undetected cases in the community.

This is only true if both places have the same policies in place regarding who gets tested.

If one place is only testing people who are symptomatic, another is also testing people who were exposed and a third place is testing anyone in healthcare daily they are going to have different positivity levels even if they have the same level of infection.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 01:33:14 PM
This is only true if both places have the same policies in place regarding who gets tested.

If one place is only testing people who are symptomatic, another is also testing people who were exposed and a third place is testing anyone in healthcare daily they are going to have different positivity levels even if they have the same level of infection.
AFAIK policies are identical everywhere in NY/NJ, if not the whole US. What makes you think otherwise?

Regardless, no matter what the policy, if total cases or percent positivity rise in one place than there is obviously an uptick, as whatever demographic was getting tested is now showing infection at that increased rate.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 05, 2020, 01:36:14 PM
Are Williamsburg and crown heights being shut down?
no   not yet
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 05, 2020, 01:40:17 PM
This is only true if both places have the same policies in place regarding who gets tested.

If one place is only testing people who are symptomatic, another is also testing people who were exposed and a third place is testing anyone in healthcare daily they are going to have different positivity levels even if they have the same level of infection.
There is a reason they got rid of the numbers that showed how many people were tested in each zip.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 01:46:53 PM
There is a reason they got rid of the numbers that showed how many people were tested in each zip.
Are you saying more or less people are getting tested in the frum communities? Pick one.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 05, 2020, 02:04:39 PM
Did Cuomo give any timeline about reopening? or is he going to hold that over our heads as a threat for noncompliance.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 02:05:29 PM
Are you saying more or less people are getting tested in the frum communities? Pick one.
@Tomorrow  Iím addressing you, pinging you if you missed it
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 05, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
WILL CUOMO APOLOGIZE?! Uses Photo From 2007 Satmar Rebbe Levaya In Todayís Press Conference

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1906942/will-cuomo-apologize-uses-photo-from-2007-satmar-rebbe-levaya-in-todays-press-conference.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Euclid on October 05, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
WILL CUOMO APOLOGIZE?! Uses Photo From 2007 Satmar Rebbe Levaya In Todayís Press Conference

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1906942/will-cuomo-apologize-uses-photo-from-2007-satmar-rebbe-levaya-in-todays-press-conference.html
Missing the forest for the trees.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 02:15:05 PM
WILL CUOMO APOLOGIZE?! Uses Photo From 2007 Satmar Rebbe Levaya In Todayís Press Conference

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1906942/will-cuomo-apologize-uses-photo-from-2007-satmar-rebbe-levaya-in-todays-press-conference.html
Who cares about the stupid picture? Are his claims true or not?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 05, 2020, 02:16:26 PM
Who cares about the stupid picture? Are his claims true or not?
Makes it look more egregious then it is. Also shows how little of an effort they have made in terms of outreach
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 02:18:04 PM
Makes it look more egregious then it is. Also shows how little of an effort they have made in terms of outreach
What kind of outreach are you expecting ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 02:18:08 PM
Makes it look more egregious then it is. Also shows how little of an effort they have made in terms of outreach
Is that more egregious than it really is?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 05, 2020, 02:21:25 PM
Are you saying more or less people are getting tested in the frum communities? Pick one.
I'm saying the metrics are way off and they know it.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 02:22:29 PM
I'm saying the metrics are way off and they know it.
In what way that matters?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 05, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
100%. But the decision doesnít stem from antisemitism.
no it stems from stupidity and the fact that he is power hungry and can't admit that there is no definitive way to combat this virus.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 05, 2020, 02:23:13 PM
Is that more egregious than it really is?
Yes. That picture is more beyond the pale then anything else.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: elimmm on October 05, 2020, 02:25:42 PM
people in these zip codes to go to other zip codes and infect them, acc to his logic
then he can just make a ghetto around these 9
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 02:30:38 PM
no it stems from stupidity and the fact that he is power hungry and can't admit that there is no definitive way to combat this virus.
Nobody ever accused him of having a brain.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: drosenberg88429 on October 05, 2020, 02:31:14 PM
no it stems from stupidity and the fact that he is power hungry and can't admit that there is no definitive way to combat this virus.

Formulating a concerted strategy to implement guidelines to prevent transmission utilizing known methodologies and tools such as effective mask wearing and social distancing and ventilation to prevent widespread community spread and super spreader events is stupidity? Funny, I'd faster assign that designation to those that refuse to comply with the evil agenda of preventing infection. There's a certain confidence and assuredness that only the oblivious and delusional can muster. Those that feel that attempts to combat this pandemic are an exercise in futility, which is why they've never even tried to do so, seem to project this confidence in spades.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 02:35:30 PM
Formulating a concerted strategy to implement guidelines to prevent transmission utilizing known methodologies and tools such as effective mask wearing and social distancing and ventilation to prevent widespread community spread and super spreader events is stupidity? Funny, I'd faster assign that designation to those that refuse to comply with the evil agenda of preventing infection. There's a certain confidence and assuredness that only the oblivious and delusional can muster. Those that feel that attempts to combat this pandemic are an exercise in futility, which is why they've never even tried to do so, seem to project this confidence in spades.
They were discussing closing schools, not mask wearing and SD
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SayWhat on October 05, 2020, 02:36:48 PM
Yes. That picture is more beyond the pale then anything else.
No. The fact that our community ignored the rules and caused this huge uptick and massive Chillul Hashem is beyond the pale more than anything else. Stop whining about the fact that he used an old picture and ask your community leaders why on Erev Yom Kippur they were more concerned about people wearing masks in the streets to create an appearance of compliance than with actual compliance inside Shuls to protect their own congregants?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 05, 2020, 02:39:02 PM
Deblasio plans on shuting down stores even though cuomo says not yet
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 05, 2020, 02:40:05 PM
Another point. The average children in an american family is 1.9, the average in orthodox jewish communities is 4.1. In addition a much larger percentage of jewish people get married and have children.

So if an non jewish American catches Covid-19 and brings it home, they are either bringing it home to no one, or their wife and 1.9 children. In an orthodox jewish setting they are most likely bringing it home to their wife and 4.1 children. That alone can be causing a much higher percentage in highly condensed orthodox jewish communities.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 02:59:47 PM
Another point. The average children in an american family is 1.9, the average in orthodox jewish communities is 4.1. In addition a much larger percentage of jewish people get married and have children.

So if an non jewish American catches Covid-19 and brings it home, they are either bringing it home to no one, or their wife and 1.9 children. In an orthodox jewish setting they are most likely bringing it home to their wife and 4.1 children. That alone can be causing a much higher percentage in highly condensed orthodox jewish communities.
Youíre right! There is some truth to this, as well as the fact that our community is very socially mixed and we live on top of each other.

Why is it that some other communities in the area, which share these features, are not experiencing the spike we are?
I'm saying the metrics are way off and they know it.
Again, pick one. Pick a metric thatís off. Is it too many testing, or too few? I think you have realized that either way the story the numbers tell is clearly true.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: neveryou on October 05, 2020, 03:09:41 PM
Wondering, in order for the positivity rate to be 3% there needs to be much more cases, bc there's over 500,000 people in those zip codes, so if the positivity rate is 3% there should be 15,000 cases
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Ergel on October 05, 2020, 03:11:03 PM
Wondering, in order for the positivity rate to be 3% there needs to be much more cases, bc there's over 500,000 people in those zip codes, so if the positivity rate is 3% there should be 15,000 cases
LOL
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 05, 2020, 03:18:56 PM
Wondering, in order for the positivity rate to be 3% there needs to be much more cases, bc there's over 500,000 people in those zip codes, so if the positivity rate is 3% there should be 15,000 cases
% of tested
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on October 05, 2020, 03:26:24 PM
My kids' school is right on the border of an affected zip, wonder whether they'll force them to close.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 05, 2020, 04:48:44 PM


Youíre right! There is some truth to this, as well as the fact that our community is very socially mixed and we live on top of each other.

Why is it that some other communities in the area, which share these features, are not experiencing the spike we are?Again, pick one. Pick a metric thatís off. Is it too many testing, or too few? I think you have realized that either way the story the numbers tell is clearly true.

Which communities share that metric?

To few.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 05, 2020, 05:10:28 PM

Which communities share that metric?

To few.

Tell us whatever metric will unbury your head from the sand (hint: none), they will all tell you the same thing. New cases, increasing positivity rate, new hospitalizations, etc.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
Tell us whatever metric will unbury your head from the sand (hint: none), they will all tell you the same thing. New cases, increasing positivity rate, new hospitalizations, etc.
No no no, this strain is milder. There are no hospitalizations.../s
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: zh cohen on October 05, 2020, 05:31:42 PM
No no no, this strain is milder. There are no hospitalizations.../s

And the only reason people died last time around was because the hospitals killed them...

/S
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shaulyaakov on October 05, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
Yes. That picture is more beyond the pale then anything else.

They corrected the picture to a similarly sized gathering at the same place 2 weeks ago and admitted their mistake. Doesn't seem like the right hill to die on...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 05, 2020, 05:54:32 PM
They corrected the picture to a similarly sized gathering at the same place 2 weeks ago and admitted their mistake. Doesn't seem like the right hill to die on...

Iím sure the same people would make an uproar if the media mistakenly posted a Peaceful Protest picture from a few years ago.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shaulyaakov on October 05, 2020, 06:15:06 PM
Iím sure the same people would make an uproar if the media mistakenly posted a Peaceful Protest picture from a few years ago.

It's faux-outrage when the substance of the images are the same.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 06:28:28 PM
Iím sure the same people would make an uproar if the media mistakenly posted a Peaceful Protest picture from a few years ago.
Maybe, but it is still a stupid distraction.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 06:32:07 PM
Tell us whatever metric will unbury your head from the sand (hint: none), they will all tell you the same thing. New cases, increasing positivity rate, new hospitalizations, etc.

Let's start with new hospitalizations.

When that has gone up to uncalled for levels then most ppl will agree action needs to be taken

Most ppl don't really care about new cases or positivity rates especially if many/most are mild.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 06:32:55 PM
Let's start with new hospitalizations.

When that has gone up to uncalled for levels then most ppl will agree action needs to be taken

Most ppl don't really care about new cases or positivity rates especially if many/most are mild.
Won't that be too late to do anything?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 06:41:06 PM
Won't that be too late to do anything?

Obviously not to wait to the point we were at in the spring. They should set a threshold that when new hospitalizations exceed that it means there are too many serious cases. The number can and should be far below what we had then. But if there are only a couple of new hospitalizations a day then its obviously not concerning and means that majority of cases are mild.

Being hospitalized nowadays is not a sure death sentence like it was back then and I would still rather say to use hospitalizations over new cases as a metric.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 06:50:06 PM
Obviously not to wait to the point we were at in the spring. They should set a threshold that when new hospitalizations exceed that it means there are too many serious cases. The number can and should be far below what we had then. But if there are only a couple of new hospitalizations a day then its obviously not concerning and means that majority of cases are mild.

Being hospitalized nowadays is not a sure death sentence like it was back then and I would still rather say to use hospitalizations over new cases as a metric.
Who's & how many lives should we sacrifice till we reach this magic number of hospitalizations you speak of ? Some of these people being hospitalized wonít make it out.
BTW in one of hatzolahs warnings they begged people to go to the hospital & not wait it out till itís very severe. Seems like people are avoiding hospitals at all costs.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 06:55:28 PM
Obviously not to wait to the point we were at in the spring. They should set a threshold that when new hospitalizations exceed that it means there are too many serious cases. The number can and should be far below what we had then. But if there are only a couple of new hospitalizations a day then its obviously not concerning and means that majority of cases are mild.

Being hospitalized nowadays is not a sure death sentence like it was back then and I would still rather say to use hospitalizations over new cases as a metric.

Ahhh so people who are incapable of drawing any fine line will suddenly cooperate when some magical number is hit. Yup sounds like something sure to work. Just like some who said that when we reach 25 cases a day we should take it seriously all take it seriously now, right?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 05, 2020, 07:04:00 PM
Let's start with new hospitalizations.

When that has gone up to uncalled for levels then most ppl will agree action needs to be taken

Most ppl don't really care about new cases or positivity rates especially if many/most are mild.

The amount of hospitalizations in Jewish communities is much higher than elsewhere. Are you proposing that we need to first fill up the hospitals with Jews before we can start caring?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 07:11:31 PM
Who's & how many lives should we sacrifice till we reach this magic number of hospitalizations you speak of ? Some of these people being hospitalized wonít make it out.
BTW in one of hatzolahs warnings they begged people to go to the hospital & not wait it out till itís very severe. Seems like people are avoiding hospitals at all costs.

Being hospitalized is not a death sentence as you intimate. No need to sacrifice any lives.

But there's also no need for the current alarm bells. With schools being the first thing to go. Uncalled for.

What is called for is enforcement. I'll repeat what others have already said - wear masks ALL the time out of your house. Period.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 07:22:52 PM
Being hospitalized is not a death sentence as you intimate. No need to sacrifice any lives.

But there's also no need for the current alarm bells. With schools being the first thing to go. Uncalled for.

What is called for is enforcement. I'll repeat what others have already said - wear masks ALL the time out of your house. Period.
Sounds like someoneís been listening to Cuomoís briefing.

Hate to tell you, there have already been far too many lives lost in just the last week or two.
But if there are only a couple of new hospitalizations a day then its obviously not concerning and means that majority of cases are mild.
The majority of cases are and have *always* been mild, but are you seriously saying that a couple of new hospitalizations a day is ďobviously not concerningĒ?! Please tell me I misread somehow.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
The amount of hospitalizations in Jewish communities is much higher than elsewhere. Are you proposing that we need to first fill up the hospitals with Jews before we can start caring?

G-d forbid.

But kids going to school are not the problem. The adults are. So what's the point of closing the schools?

Perhaps if they gave ppl stats on hospitalizations in these zips, ppl would take heed. My point is that new cases which are mostly mild doesn't mean much - it means as much as how many new cases of strep or ear infections there currently are.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 07:24:50 PM
Sounds like someoneís been listening to Cuomoís briefing

Not even a half a word.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 07:26:02 PM
Being hospitalized is not a death sentence as you intimate. No need to sacrifice any lives.

But there's also no need for the current alarm bells. With schools being the first thing to go. Uncalled for.

What is called for is enforcement. I'll repeat what others have already said - wear masks ALL the time out of your house. Period.
1) It is time for alarm as there are many ill out there. If you need names for tehillim Iíll provide some for you.

2) How could they properly enforce it when people refuse to listen ? You want them to act like the Israeli police ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
G-d forbid.

But kids going to school are not the problem. The adults are. So what's the point of closing the schools?

Perhaps if they gave ppl stats on hospitalizations in these zips, ppl would take heed. My point is that new cases which are mostly mild doesn't mean much - it means as much as how many new cases of strep or ear infections there currently are.
Thatís idiotic. COVID doesnít cause death or serious illness in the great majority of people it infects, but it does in an unacceptably high number of cases. In no way does that make it like strep or ear infections.

Once more, for those that still donít get it: In the vast majority of cases, COVID will cause mild illnesses (with unknown long term side effects). In an unacceptably high percentage, it will cause serious illness and death. And the same infection that causes the mild effects in one individual will cause the death of another, more vulnerable individual. The two are not separable.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 07:29:21 PM
Perhaps if they gave ppl stats on hospitalizations in these zips, ppl would take heed.
Not a chance. People canít be bothered
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 05, 2020, 07:36:41 PM
Just got an email from my daughters' school saying that all students 3 and over, and their families, should get tested tomorrow, as a negative test will likely be required in order to attend school after YT.

(https://gyazo.com/c1facbf6d1e2c2b6bdae6e60d8ec1c7b.jpg)

Need to buy shares in the companies making these tests.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 07:39:09 PM
Thatís idiotic. COVID doesnít cause death or serious illness in the great majority of people it infects, but it does in an unacceptably high number of cases. In no way does that make it like strep or ear infections.

Once more, for those that still donít get it: In the vast majority of cases, COVID will cause mild illnesses (with unknown long term side effects). In an unacceptably high percentage, it will cause serious illness and death. And the same infection that causes the mild effects in one individual will cause the death of another, more vulnerable individual. The two are not separable.

So your answer to that is to close the schools??

I'm sure that will totally solve the problem and we will stop seeing the serious illnesses and deaths caused to some.

From your mouth to G-d's ears.

And just to be clear: Even 1 death is 1 too many.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 07:39:59 PM
So your answer to that is to close the schools??

I'm sure that will totally solve the problem and we will stop seeing the serious illnesses and deaths caused to some.

From your mouth to G-d's ears.

And just to be clear: Even 1 death is 1 too many.
Did I say to close the schools?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 07:40:33 PM
Just got an email from my daughters' school saying that all students 3 and over, and their families, should get tested tomorrow, as a negative test will likely be required in order to attend school after YT.

(https://gyazo.com/c1facbf6d1e2c2b6bdae6e60d8ec1c7b.jpg)

Need to buy shares in the companies making these tests.

I'm assuming your school is outside of the 9 affected zip codes.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 05, 2020, 07:47:57 PM
I'm assuming your school is outside of the 9 affected zip codes.

Correct. We are 11213. I am guessing the local schools at 11225 and 11203 (and the other schools at 11213) will be sending out similar emails.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 05, 2020, 07:53:54 PM
G-d forbid.

But kids going to school are not the problem. The adults are. So what's the point of closing the schools?

Perhaps if they gave ppl stats on hospitalizations in these zips, ppl would take heed. My point is that new cases which are mostly mild doesn't mean much - it means as much as how many new cases of strep or ear infections there currently are.

IMHO schools arenít causing the outbreaks, but closing a school is a real and required consequence of an outbreak. IOW, when things are calm you should not expect a school to be the cause of new cases, but once dozens of kids infected locally are coming into school with COVID they will transmit it and get teachers, faculty, and students sick. Pandemics have consequences.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 07:56:00 PM
IMHO schools arenít causing the outbreaks, but closing a school is a real and required consequence of an outbreak. IOW, when things are calm you should not expect a school to be the cause of new cases, but once dozens of kids infected locally are coming into school with COVID they will transmit it and get teachers, faculty, and students sick. Pandemics have consequences.
This applies to shuls and simchos as well. The question is if there is a safe alternative, more extreme than just masks and SD but less extreme than temporary total shutdown.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 08:02:43 PM
This applies to shuls and simchos as well. The question is if there is a safe alternative, more extreme than just masks and SD but less extreme than temporary total shutdown.
I think simchos and shuls can definitely be a cause of an outbreak.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 05, 2020, 08:03:59 PM
This applies to shuls and simchos as well. The question is if there is a safe alternative, more extreme than just masks and SD but less extreme than temporary total shutdown.

I've been suggesting that alternative for months. It might not work on a global level, but should work and be relatively easy to implement on a communal/shul/simcha hall level.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 05, 2020, 08:04:23 PM
This applies to shuls and simchos as well. The question is if there is a safe alternative, more extreme than just masks and SD but less extreme than temporary total shutdown.

Shuls maybe, simchos, depends on the event. Full blown indoor weddings are absolutely causing outbreaks. Smaller, safer events should be fine - if there isnít an outbreak brewing nearby.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 08:06:12 PM
G-d forbid.

But kids going to school are not the problem. The adults are. So what's the point of closing the schools?

Perhaps if they gave ppl stats on hospitalizations in these zips, ppl would take heed. My point is that new cases which are mostly mild doesn't mean much - it means as much as how many new cases of strep or ear infections there currently are.
I personally know of kids who caught from their rebbi/teacher and passed it to the family.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 05, 2020, 08:07:21 PM
Now certain stores are not allowing "families" from these zip codes to shop.

https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE (https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 08:07:43 PM
Being hospitalized is not a death sentence as you intimate. No need to sacrifice any lives.

Not a death sentence but most definitively sakonas nefashos. How do you plan on translating x amount of hospitalizations into no lives sacrificed?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 08:07:59 PM
I personally know of kids who caught from their rebbi/teacher and passed it to the family.
But most kids donít get very sick so thatís not a problem! /s
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 05, 2020, 08:12:00 PM
Now certain stores are not allowing "families" from these zip codes to shop.

https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE (https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE)
Is this legal?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 08:12:17 PM
Now certain stores are not allowing "families" from these zip codes to shop.

https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE (https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE)
Perhaps a certain AG can weigh in on the legality of excluding these zip codes. ;)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 08:13:11 PM
So your answer to that is to close the schools??

I'm sure that will totally solve the problem and we will stop seeing the serious illnesses and deaths caused to some.

From your mouth to G-d's ears.

And just to be clear: Even 1 death is 1 too many.

It was SO predictable that schools will close due to the carelessness that people had. You don't want the schools to close? Don't create a situation where it becomes inevitable!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 05, 2020, 08:15:39 PM
It was SO predictable that schools will close due to the carelessness that people had. You don't want the schools to close? Don't create a situation where it becomes inevitable!
It was predicted,on this very forum for at least 6 weeks
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Luvisrael on October 05, 2020, 08:21:57 PM
08701 may be next  https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=118498.msg2332176#msg2332176
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 08:29:50 PM
08701 may be next  https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=118498.msg2332176#msg2332176
Not really likely although I did overhear some very prominent Lakewood officials discussing some agitating goings-on with the Governorís office today
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 09:05:12 PM
It was SO predictable that schools will close due to the carelessness that people had. You don't want the schools to close? Don't create a situation where it becomes inevitable!

Who cares what I want or for that matter what anyone else "wants"?

The point is that closing schools is not the solution regardless of if it was predicted or inevitable.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 09:05:32 PM
Who cares what I want or for that matter what anyone else "wants"?

The point is that closing schools is not the solution regardless of if it was predicted or inevitable.
Source?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 05, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
If you listen to the full news conference Cuomo said clearly that zip codes are the ďrough draftĒ. The State is going to refine that in the next days so they can shut down for example the satmar blocks in Williamsburg or the Jewish blocks in Flatbush, even those extending into other zip codes, while lifting the restrictions on the rest of the zip code. He spent some time elaborating on this. So for those who think the State is locking down Far Rockaway until the 878, and Lawrence and the Five Towns will be left alone, think again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dn0_yoh1ifo
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 05, 2020, 09:09:25 PM
Now certain stores are not allowing "families" from these zip codes to shop.

https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE (https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE)

Nice way to turn down the Frum families who want to go there for a chol hamoed trip.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 05, 2020, 09:11:19 PM
If you listen to the full news conference Cuomo said clearly that zip codes are the ďrough draftĒ. The State is going to refine that in the next days so they can shut down for example the satmar blocks in Williamsburg or the Jewish blocks in Flatbush, even those extending into other zip codes, while lifting the restrictions on the rest of the zip code. He spent some time elaborating on this. So for those who think the State is locking down Far Rockaway until the 878, and Lawrence and the Five Towns will be left alone, think again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dn0_yoh1ifo

Lawrence and the 5 towns will be treated differently, perhaps similar to other hotspots in Rockland/Orange counties. All 20 zip codes in the two zones were identified by Deblasio and are in NYC.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SayWhat on October 05, 2020, 09:13:03 PM
It was predicted,on this very forum for at least 6 weeks

He is 100% right. I think the one thing we can all agree on is that we don't want another shutdown. But if this blows up to where it was March/April time there will be another shutdown. So we can either take the basic precautions now like mask wearing, social distancing & avoiding large indoor gatherings or the govt will enact another shutdown. Which one is it going to be?

I'm not in favor of this shutdown, but it was predicated by myself as well as others weeks ago - it didn't take a genius to see this coming and we don't really have anyone to blame but our selves.

Something I can't understand. Hatzalah will be Mechal Shabbos for a Sofek Pikuach Nefesh, & I believe there is a pretty liberal interpretation of Sofek Pikuach Nefesh (each Hatzalah organization my have slightly different guidelines). If the shiur to be Mechal Shabbos for a Sofek Pikuach Nefesh is 1 in 100 or 1 in 500 or 1 in 1,000, what is the Shiur (risk of death) needed to reach the level of Sofek Pikuach Nefesh required to wear a mask? We are allowed to be Mechal Shabbos for a deep cut because maybe it will get infected but we won't wear a mask to possibly prevent the spread of a deadly disease, even if it is only dangerous to a small minority?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 05, 2020, 09:16:47 PM
Just got an email from my daughters' school saying that all students 3 and over, and their families, should get tested tomorrow, as a negative test will likely be required in order to attend school after YT.

(https://gyazo.com/c1facbf6d1e2c2b6bdae6e60d8ec1c7b.jpg)

Need to buy shares in the companies making these tests.

This business with the students needing a negative test to attend school is BS, itís just to ďscareĒ people into coming to test so that they get a high turnout. The entire purpose of this exercise is to lower the positivity rate, which is why they discourage anyone with any symptoms from attending. Same as is being done in other communities

In the event of a shutdown, if a recent negative test result will be required to attend school once the state is ready to do so, the odds are super slim theyíll accept results dated 10/6, which would be before schools in this zipcode were even shut down.

The silly irony is that even a politically motivated testing drive like this could RĒL cause COVID spread. Unless they have strict enforcement, which I doubt they will, it will be yet another crowded community event where most people arenít masked.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 09:17:20 PM
I'm not in favor of this shutdown, but it was predicated by myself as well as others weeks ago - it didn't take a genius to see this coming and we don't really have anyone to blame but our selves.

Something I can't understand. Hatzalah will be Mechal Shabbos for a Sofek Pikuach Nefesh, & I believe there is a pretty liberal interpretation of Sofek Pikuach Nefesh (each Hatzalah organization my have slightly different guidelines). If the shiur to be Mechal Shabbos for a Sofek Pikuach Nefesh is 1 in 100 or 1 in 500 or 1 in 1,000, what is the Shiur (risk of death) needed to reach the level of Sofek Pikuach Nefesh required to wear a mask? We are allowed to be Mechal Shabbos for a deep cut because maybe it will get infected but we won't wear a mask to possibly prevent the spread of a deadly disease, even if it is only dangerous to a small minority?
Apparently pikuach nefesh isnít doichah personal comfort. Pathetic
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 05, 2020, 09:17:49 PM
Who cares what I want or for that matter what anyone else "wants"?

The point is that closing schools is not the solution regardless of if it was predicted or inevitable.
How is that the point? I think the point is that some felt the need to flaunt all restrictions even though it was very obvious that this would be the result. You want to place blame? Look at them! It is starting to sound like you can look in the mirror I'd you want to see who is to blame.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 05, 2020, 09:21:28 PM
I'm not in favor of this shutdown, but it was predicated by myself as well as others weeks ago - it didn't take a genius to see this coming and we don't really have anyone to blame but our selves.

Something I can't understand. Hatzalah will be Mechal Shabbos for a Sofek Pikuach Nefesh, & I believe there is a pretty liberal interpretation of Sofek Pikuach Nefesh (each Hatzalah organization my have slightly different guidelines). If the shiur to be Mechal Shabbos for a Sofek Pikuach Nefesh is 1 in 100 or 1 in 500 or 1 in 1,000, what is the Shiur (risk of death) needed to reach the level of Sofek Pikuach Nefesh required to wear a mask? We are allowed to be Mechal Shabbos for a deep cut because maybe it will get infected but we won't wear a mask to possibly prevent the spread of a deadly disease, even if it is only dangerous to a small minority?
One difference is a safek befonov or loi befonov.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 05, 2020, 09:26:49 PM
Lawrence and the 5 towns will be treated differently, perhaps similar to other hotspots in Rockland/Orange counties. All 20 zip codes in the two zones were identified by Deblasio and are in NYC.
Yes but it seems that Cuomo is taking it a step further. He said it subsequently came up in discussions with other officials that zip codes are imprecise and the wrong way to do it. Cuomo said he agreed and thatís why he went with the zip codes temporarily as a rough draft. He is tasking officials with going beyond the imprecise zip codes in the near future.

Hereís where it can get a bit dangerous almost like gerrymandering a voting district. If you have a standalone cluster of satmar addresses that are midway between another satmar cluster and a black neighborhood, do you draw a line so it lumps the cluster together with the immediate black neighbors, or do you say itís those jews again and draw the line around the whole satmar neighborhood. It becomes very subjective and subject to bias.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 05, 2020, 09:31:57 PM
How is that the point? I think the point is that some felt the need to flaunt all restrictions even though it was very obvious that this would be the result. You want to place blame? Look at them! It is starting to sound like you can look in the mirror I'd you want to see who is to blame.

Why does this have to spiral into a blame game and/or finger pointing? I wasn't doing anything of the sort, nor should you.

I've worn a mask throughout and even did so at home when I developed a slight cold just to be on the safe side.

All I'm saying is that closing schools is not the solution  - not for bringing down hospitalizations or deaths nor for bringing ppl into compliance.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 05, 2020, 09:34:36 PM
Nice way to turn down the Frum families who want to go there for a chol hamoed trip.
Yup, thats how I found out about it... A friend went today with his family and they kicked them out. Even though the store was empty.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 05, 2020, 09:49:50 PM
Yup, thats how I found out about it... A friend went today with his family and they kicked them out. Even though the store was empty.

Are they requiring proof of address? Or discriminating on sight?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 09:52:12 PM
Are they requiring proof of address? Or discriminating on sight?
According to their site theyíre requiring ID.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 05, 2020, 09:55:29 PM
Are they requiring proof of address? Or discriminating on sight?
According to their site theyíre requiring ID.
My friend was not asked for ID. It can be they updated their site after

Yes, they were all wearing masks
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 09:58:06 PM
My friend was not asked for ID. It can be they updated their site after

Yes, they were all wearing masks
They definitely changed something on the site very recently. So they just threw him out for being jewish ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 05, 2020, 10:04:51 PM
They definitely changed something on the site very recently. So they just threw him out for being jewish ?
They said due to lack of reservation. They refused to speak to him further.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 05, 2020, 10:53:26 PM
What will closing stores help   everyone will just go shopping in other zipcodes and spread it to the rest of the city
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 05, 2020, 11:02:13 PM
What will closing stores help   everyone will just go shopping in other zipcodes and spread it to the rest of the city
Nobody ever accused him of having a brain.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 06, 2020, 12:08:04 AM
The amount of hospitalizations in Jewish communities is much higher than elsewhere. Are you proposing that we need to first fill up the hospitals with Jews before we can start caring?
You talk passionately in support of new rules and closures.  What do you propose?  Full closure until what point?   Asking put of curiosity,  not in an argumentative way
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 12:40:59 AM
Now certain stores are not allowing "families" from these zip codes to shop.

https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE (https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=20026200&location=PARK%20SLOPE)
poof ;)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 12:45:56 AM
poof ;)
Nice
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
poof ;)

Wow, that was fast. Must have gotten some heat from somewhere.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 06, 2020, 01:02:33 AM
This doesn't really address the root of the problem. It's basically cancel culture, which doesn't do anything to address the underlying feelings which are worse than the symptoms imo. But as long as everyone can go paint pottery we should be happy, right?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 01:19:42 AM
This doesn't really address the root of the problem. It's basically cancel culture, which doesn't do anything to address the underlying feelings which are worse than the symptoms imo. But as long as everyone can go paint pottery we should be happy, right?
Root of the problem being anti semitism? You will never get rid of that. The issue is when people feel it is acceptable to express their anti-Semitism with the cover of safety. That has the potential to blow up really fast. So for now the people that made a big deal about it behind the scenes did good by preventing others (even neighbors) from doing the same.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 01:45:40 AM
You talk passionately in support of new rules and closures.  What do you propose?  Full closure until what point?   Asking put of curiosity,  not in an argumentative way

I donít like the idea of shutdowns, they are reactionary and I believe that simple precautionary measures are much easier to swallow. But shutdowns were always inevitable based on the guidelines that our local governments have implemented and should have never been ignored. Diblasio didnít shut down the schools, the Jewish communities did.

Honestly after seeing how reckless everyone has been despite our recent history and countless warnings, leading to a huge outbreak, Iím not convinced itís entirely the wrong move. When a school has dozens of cases, countless families will be safer with the school (and other vectors) closed.

Let me pose a theoretical question - if a school was able to operate without any interruptions or impositions from anyone, as long as each participating parent signs a waiver that they will not use hospitals or Hatzalah for COVID related issues in their family, how many would sign that waiver? Would you sign? If no, why not?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 06, 2020, 02:04:16 AM
I donít like the idea of shutdowns, they are reactionary and I believe that simple precautionary measures are much easier to swallow. But shutdowns were always inevitable based on the guidelines that our local governments have implemented and should have never been ignored. Diblasio didnít shut down the schools, the Jewish communities did.

Honestly after seeing how reckless everyone has been despite our recent history and countless warnings, leading to a huge outbreak, Iím not convinced itís entirely the wrong move. When a school has dozens of cases, countless families will be safer with the school (and other vectors) closed.

Let me pose a theoretical question - if a school was able to operate without any interruptions or impositions from anyone, as long as each participating parent signs a waiver that they will not use hospitals or Hatzalah for COVID related issues in their family, how many would sign that waiver? Would you sign? If no, why not?
Personally,  probably yes.  I'm young and healthy and so is my family  BH. For people like us the rates to be severely affected are close to none.  And I would be careful around extended family that might be higher risk. I would rather stay away from high risk locations and people instead of full lockdown and no school.   I can't see myself doing that again.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 02:07:10 AM
Personally,  probably yes.  I'm young and healthy and so is my family  BH. For people like us the rates to be severely affected are close to none.  And I would be careful around extended family that might be higher risk.

Parents and grandparents? That's what I was referring to mostly.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 06, 2020, 02:08:26 AM
Parents and grandparents? That's what I was referring to mostly.
We recently had a family kiddush and when we asked my grandmother that is mid 70s to consider not coming she said she is not going back to lockdown. She is single and quarantine really messed with her psychological health. So she would rather be around than be locked up and healthy.  Which is very sad and we can't judge.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 02:11:43 AM
We recently had a family kiddush and when we asked my grandmother that is mid 70s to consider not coming she said she is not going back to lockdown. She is single and quarantine really messed with her psychological health. So she would rather be around than be locked up and healthy.  Which is very sad and we can't judge.

Fair enough, but you just took away the biggest argument from those arguing against using masks. Believe it or not, I don't believe old people need to be quarantined forever.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 06, 2020, 02:16:26 AM
Fair enough, but you just took away the biggest argument from those arguing against using masks. Believe it or not, I don't believe old people need to be quarantined forever.
I also don't believe so. But to me it seems that the only way they stay 100% safe is by staying home for a long time. Corona is not disappearing too fast and the second they walk out even with a mask and around people in masks its still easy for them to catch it. So only option to stay locked up for years until its 0% here
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 02:21:45 AM
Anti-maskers "Masks don't work, and even if they did I'm not wearing one, just lock up the old people".
Also anti-maskers "All these old people locked up are getting depressed and dying, we can't keep them locked up forever".
Anti-masker climax "All the old people we set free are now dying from COVID, why don't they believe in wearing masks?"
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 02:24:49 AM
I also don't believe so. But to me it seems that the only way they stay 100% safe is by staying home for a long time. Corona is not disappearing too fast and the second they walk out even with a mask and around people in masks its still easy for them to catch it. So only option to stay locked up for years until its 0% here

No one believes in living a 100% safe life. But you cannot reasonably compare an elderly person shopping with a mask in Edison and the same person going anywhere in Lakewood, with or without a mask.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 06, 2020, 02:27:20 AM
Anti-maskers "Masks don't work, and even if they did I'm not wearing one, just lock up the old people".
Also anti-maskers "All these old people locked up are getting depressed and dying, we can't keep them locked up forever".
Anti-masker climax "All the old people we set free are now dying from COVID, why don't they believe in wearing masks?"
I am not an anti masker. I go into stores with my mask out of respect to others.  But I don't believe in masks enough to say that its the solution to corona as many believe
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 02:28:40 AM
I am not an anti masker. I go into stores with my mask out of respect to others.  But I don't believe in masks enough to say that its the solution to corona as many believe

I was not referring to you. It's only because the irony of the anti-mask arguments just dawned on me that I felt I had to post. Re: masks, I'd like to hear any reason why only Jewish communities are being affected?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: dovy2 on October 06, 2020, 08:11:10 AM
I was not referring to you. It's only because the irony of the anti-mask arguments just dawned on me that I felt I had to post. Re: masks, I'd like to hear any reason why only Jewish communities are being affected?
Because of summer camps? Schools reopening before anyone else? Yom tov?
The same thing would have happened in any other community.. IMHO has nothing to do with masks.. (IOW masks wouldn't of helped in those situations)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Hjay on October 06, 2020, 08:27:54 AM
Because of summer camps? Schools reopening before anyone else? Yom tov?
The same thing would have happened in any other community.. IMHO has nothing to do with masks.. (IOW masks wouldn't of helped in those situations)

Add weddings. The reasons mentioned & large families. & the amount of interaction between neighbors friends relatives even on a daily basis not because of weddings or anything else special, really changes the equation.

Unfortunately nobody in the outside world will understand this
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SayWhat on October 06, 2020, 09:22:08 AM
Add weddings. The reasons mentioned & large families. & the amount of interaction between neighbors friends relatives even on a daily basis not because of weddings or anything else special, really changes the equation.

Unfortunately nobody in the outside world will understand this
Shouldn't this be more of a reason to be extra cautious not less? Why was social distancing and masks thrown out a long time if our community is more susceptible to spread the disease?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 09:58:14 AM
No one believes in living a 100% safe life. But you cannot reasonably compare an elderly person shopping with a mask in Edison and the same person going anywhere in Lakewood, with or without a mask.
Actually, itís possible Edison is starting to see the beginnings of an outbreak after several teachers from Lakewood infected others at school.
Because of summer camps? Schools reopening before anyone else? Yom tov?
The same thing would have happened in any other community.. IMHO has nothing to do with masks.. (IOW masks wouldn't of helped in those situations)
So basically, you agree that the reason itís prevalent is because the rules were completely ignored. Youíre not really entitled to your opinion that specifically masks wouldnít have helped, since there isnít really a legitimate medical point of view that believes that, but no matter what the wholesale abandoning of all precautions led directly to this point and that is clear. We can argue which specific thing it was but when you factor in camps, schools, shuls, weddings, no masks, no distancing, no capacity limits, all indoors, people who were exposed/infected continuing to circulate and infect others, the sum total caused the predictable outbreak. So, to answer @Mordyk ís straw man argument, if you canít keep all people who are higher risk fully locked up, you should require everyone to exercise a certain amount of caution in their lives, with higher risk people being even more cautious.

Nobody wants everyone to be locked down, but the consequences we are facing now are a direct result of being unwilling to take lesser action earlier. Our insistence on reacting instead of being proactive is what caused this. As a society, we seem to have both poor hindsight and foresight.

-Itís unfair to make everyone stay locked down forever just for older people.
-Itís unfair to make older people stay locked down forever because you canít wear a mask and stay a couple feet away from people in Shul.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 10:02:09 AM
Shouldn't this be more of a reason to be extra cautious not less? Why was social distancing and masks thrown out a long time if our community is more susceptible to spread the disease?
1) herd immunity. Everybody had it already
2) I have antibodies, Iíll never get it again.
3) itís already been 2 months & nobody is getting it. Hatzolah is reporting zero new Covid calls.

This from all the overnight medical experts.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 06, 2020, 10:05:15 AM
1) herd immunity. Everybody had it already
2) I have antibodies, Iíll never get it again.
3) itís already been 2 months & nobody is getting it. Hatzolah is reporting zero new Covid calls.

This from all the overnight medical experts.
4) it's a weaker strain, so no hospitalizations, even though hatzala is getting calls, it's just because people are nervous because the media hyped up the virus
5) everyone will get it anyways, so there's nothing we can do
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:15:45 AM
1) herd immunity. Everybody had it already
2) I have antibodies, Iíll never get it again.
3) itís already been 2 months & nobody is getting it. Hatzolah is reporting zero new Covid calls.

This from all the overnight medical experts.
4) it's a weaker strain, so no hospitalizations, even though hatzala is getting calls, it's just because people are nervous because the media hyped up the virus
5) everyone will get it anyways, so there's nothing we can do
6) we see obviously masks and SD donít work
7) lockdowns donít work anyway
8 ) we canít stay locked down forever
9) lockdowns just kick the can down the road
10) itís not as bad as March so itís fine, couple of hospitalizations a day never killed anyone
These are all stated reasons on these forums, among others that are even crazier
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yef on October 06, 2020, 12:27:43 PM
Actually, itís possible Edison is starting to see the beginnings of an outbreak after several teachers from Lakewood infected others at school.
Sir, i think itís time to start calling out your statements against jewish people. . Where are you getting your news from, obviously some very anti Semitic places
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Euclid on October 06, 2020, 12:36:23 PM
Sir, i think itís time to start calling out your statements against jewish people. . Where are you getting your news from, obviously some very anti Semitic places
The virus is antisemitic
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 06, 2020, 12:38:12 PM

The politicians and the media told us it's racist, why can't it be antisemitic too?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 01:41:12 PM
The politicians and the media told us it's racist, why can't it be antisemitic too?
There was a poster who asked if itís Ashkenazic genes :)
Sir, i think itís time to start calling out your statements against jewish people. . Where are you getting your news from, obviously some very anti Semitic places
Yes yes my news is from CNN and other very anti Semitic places. Itís time to start calling me out. Foiled again! You caught on so quickly.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Hjay on October 06, 2020, 03:40:24 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2020, 03:48:28 PM
News link?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: mochjas on October 06, 2020, 03:52:52 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 06, 2020, 04:03:15 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/htp3XJCS/IMG-20201006-WA0026.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YvLxVSKV)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
So now all of the shuls that werent requiring mask and dont care about the law will continue as is, and the ones that were open in a safe manor and care about the law will have to drastically change their operations. what did this accomplish?
What is needed is enforcement of existing laws.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 07:46:35 PM
TAKING ACTION AGAINST CUOMO: Agudath Israel To File Court Injunction After Limitations Placed On Shuls
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1907452/taking-action-against-cuomo-agudath-israel-to-file-court-injunction-after-limitations-placed-on-shuls.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 07:49:55 PM
and the ones that were open in a safe manor and care about the law will have to drastically change their operations.
They shouldnít change anything. What Cuomo did today was found unconstitutional. Period
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 06, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
They shouldnít change anything. What Cuomo did today was found unconstitutional. Period
Yup. Itís really incredible how we are being ruled by a dictator
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 08:03:04 PM
Itís nuts how heís handling this, and itís nuts how we got to this
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 06, 2020, 08:06:19 PM
Yup. Itís really incredible how we are being ruled by a dictator
You mean dictator trump

Does anyone have the recording of Cuomo explaining why trump can't force governors to reopen because the President is elected to serve the states? Could someone an him to listen to his words and understand that the governor is also elected  to serve it's state
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 06, 2020, 08:11:32 PM
Itís nuts how heís handling this, and itís nuts how we got to this
I agree on both fronts.

Unfortunately this will make everything worse and will continue to play into the narrative that this is all political/anti-Semitic.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 06, 2020, 08:11:45 PM
You mean dictator trump

Does anyone have the recording of Cuomo explaining why trump can't force governors to reopen because the President is elected to serve the states? Could someone an him to listen to his words and understand that the governor is also elected  to serve it's state
Huh?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 06, 2020, 08:15:42 PM
Unfortunately this will make everything worse and will continue to play into the narrative that this is all political/anti-Semitic.

Which was also predicted. That is the most mind-numbing part of this whole situation. Every single bit of what has happened has been predicted for a while now, and it was all avoidable.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 08:42:00 PM
Let's just imagine that this spike would have happened even though everyone would have worn masks religiously and practiced proper social distancing.

All those predictors out there would have still found some kind of reason to say: I told you so, it was predicted, we brought it on ourselves, etc.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2020, 08:43:51 PM
Let's just imagine that this spike would have happened even though everyone would have worn masks religiously and practiced proper social distancing.

All those predictors out there would have still found some kind of reason to say: I told you so, it was predicted, we brought it on ourselves, etc.
Plenty of OOT Jewish communities do just that and have avoided COVID-19 outbreaks and shutdowns.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 08:47:31 PM
Let's just imagine that this spike would have happened even though everyone would have worn masks religiously and practiced proper social distancing.

All those predictors out there would have still found some kind of reason to say: I told you so, it was predicted, we brought it on ourselves, etc.
Umm. But this happened. As predicted. And the places that practiced SD arenít experiencing spikes (yet). This non-argument is mind-numbingly senseless.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 08:49:33 PM
Let's just imagine that this spike would have happened even though everyone would have worn masks religiously and practiced proper social distancing.

All those predictors out there would have still found some kind of reason to say: I told you so, it was predicted, we brought it on ourselves, etc.
Why do you say this? Sounds more like lol haposel bimumo posel than anything else.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 09:11:44 PM
Plenty of OOT Jewish communities do just that and have avoided COVID-19 outbreaks and shutdowns.
I was in an OOT community for R"H that was very strict the whole time period (including R"H) and I caught COVID there and actually tested positve in brooklyn...

Lets not forget testing was / is being heavily pushed throughout NYC (especially lower income neighborhoods). They were encouraging all people to get tested regardless of how you were feeling (I experienced this first hand in multiple different neighborhoods). While in brooklyn, people only went for tests when they were not feeling well or after being in close proximity. I think the 4% number is actually quite low considering the above.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2020, 09:14:25 PM
Never said you couldn't get it, I said many didn't have outbreaks.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 09:16:03 PM
I was in an OOT community for R"H that was very strict the whole time period (including R"H) and I caught COVID there and actually tested positve in brooklyn...

Lets not forget testing was / is being heavily pushed throughout NYC (especially lower income neighborhoods). They were encouraging all people to get tested regardless of how you were feeling (I experienced this first hand in multiple different neighborhoods). While in brooklyn, people only went for tests when they were not feeling well or after being in close proximity. I think the 4% number is actually quite low considering the above.
Random question: How do you know you caught it there?

Regardless, nobody said the virus is nonexistent OOT. But notice how despite it existing it isnít spreading like wildfire through the town.. thatís exactly the point.

Iím not really sure what your second point is.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 09:23:10 PM
Random question: How do you know you caught it there?

Someone at the meal wasnt feeling great. Tested positive motzei Y"t. I tested positive 4 days later.

Iím not really sure what your second point is.
4% of people tested does not seem like its a high number when the focus groups are not the same. In the 9 neighborhoods, only people with symptoms were testing vs the rest everyone was getting tested.

I'm not saying there was no recklessness. However, this data isnt that bad. (IMHO)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 06, 2020, 09:23:42 PM
Iím not really sure what your second point is.
The average healthy John in NYC tested himself religiously because our esteemed governor/mayor promoted it. Not a single healthy frum yid did that until a few days ago.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 09:25:39 PM
The average healthy John in NYC tested himself religiously because our esteemed governor/mayor promoted it. Not a single healthy frum yid did that until a few days ago.
Exactly!

In the bronx they were giving out swag with a test. (pens, pads, random junk)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 06, 2020, 09:26:24 PM
Based on the sentiments on the street, our distinguished authorities will need to buckle up for a serious fight if they will want to actually enforce the new restrictions.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 09:28:41 PM
Based on the sentiments on the street, our distinguished authorities will need to buckle up for a serious fight if they will want to actually enforce the new restrictions.
I was at landaus tonight when a supervisor came by from NYPD. No one flinched. He pulled off 5 minutes later. I saw police cars driving by a lot of shuls with lights, but I didnt see anyone enter any.

Lets not forget, NYPD isnt that pleased with our lovely mayor and governor right now. Yom tov will be wild.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 06, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
I was at landaus tonight when a supervisor came by from NYPD. No one flinched. He pulled off 5 minutes later. I saw police cars driving by a lot of shuls with lights, but I didnt see anyone enter any.

Lets not forget, NYPD isnt that pleased with our lovely mayor and governor right now. Yom tov will be wild.
Another group with low mask compliance is the NYPD
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 09:52:14 PM
NYPD wants nothing to do with this. Itíll probably be various city agencies harassing & handing out fat tickets.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 09:54:18 PM
NYPD wants nothing to do with this. Itíll probably be various city agencies harassing & handing out fat tickets.
How will that work on Y"T? I'm guessing nothing will happen.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 06, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
How will that work on Y"T? I'm guessing nothing will happen.
They'll say not having ID is not an excuse, but there's nothing they can do if you make up a name and address.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 09:57:08 PM
They'll say not having ID is not an excuse, but there's nothing they can do if you make up a name and address.
I just hope they dont send some "hero" trooper with a chip on his shoulder and start a riot in middle of bp.

(More so, I hope someone lets me know if there is a riot as I will be in bp for Y"T)  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
I was referring more to stores. Handing out tickets to random people wonít work too well.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 06, 2020, 09:59:14 PM
I just hope they dont send some "hero" trooper with a chip on his shoulder and start a riot in middle of bp.

(More so, I hope someone lets me know if there is a riot as I will be in bp for Y"T)  ;D ;D
I'm sure there will be lots of indoor riots with sifrei torah.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 10:01:07 PM
I just hope they dont send some "hero" trooper with a chip on his shoulder and start a riot in middle of bp.

(More so, I hope someone lets me know if there is a riot as I will be in bp for Y"T)  ;D ;D
So heíll lock the doors & 5 minutes later everyone will go back in from various side doors.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:04:44 PM
So heíll lock the doors & 5 minutes later everyone will go back in from various side doors.
I dont think people will clear out as easy as they did first round. There is a different mood now, especially on Y"T.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
The average healthy John in NYC tested himself religiously because our esteemed governor/mayor promoted it. Not a single healthy frum yid did that until a few days ago.
So how do the numbers compare to the numbers at those same locations  weeks or months ago?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
I dont think people will clear out as easy as they did first round. There is a different mood now, especially after what Cuomo did today.
FTFY
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Percentage wise, around the same. IINM they have been fluctuating in the 1.5-2.5 range.
Have total tests gone up? And you are saying they doubled. Still, even with the requests not to test etc. I find it very hard to believe that the numbers from a couple of months ago till now have only doubled.

Where did you get your numbers from?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:20:55 PM
The average healthy John in NYC tested himself religiously because our esteemed governor/mayor promoted it. Not a single healthy frum yid did that until a few days ago.
Do you have a source that the average healthy person in NYC tested himself religiously? I find that hard to believe
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 10:21:16 PM
Have total tests gone up? And you are saying they doubled. Still, even with the requests not to test etc. I find it very hard to believe that the numbers from a couple of months ago till now have only doubled.

Where did you get your numbers from?
Don't forget that there were all of the tests for camp then.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:22:35 PM
Don't forget that there were all of the tests for camp then.
Good point.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:25:47 PM
Do you have a source that the average healthy person in NYC tested himself religiously? I find that hard to believe
While I dont have an online source, this was / is the general sentiment in the city. Look at all the city twitter pages, they are constantly pushing testing. Pop-up mobile testing sites are throughout the city.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 06, 2020, 10:25:56 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:28:06 PM
While I dont have an online source, this was / is the general sentiment in the city. Look at all the city twitter pages, they are constantly pushing testing. Pop-up mobile testing sites are throughout the city.
They did the same in Brooklyn, how do you know the compliance there was different?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
They did the same in Brooklyn, how do you know the compliance there was different?
I'm not following. In brooklyn the frum communities did not stam test. So yes, there arent only jews in these zip codes, but a large percentage are.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 10:34:13 PM
Plenty of OOT Jewish communities do just that and have avoided COVID-19 outbreaks and shutdowns.

That may be true, but none of them are as condensed as these neighborhoods currently being targeted so its not really a good comparison. But I'm honestly and sincerely glad for every place that's able to avoid a spike or outbreak and I wish that were able to be the case all over.

In either case, that wasn't really my point at all.  My point is that a lot of us are pretty sick of all these people on here that act like they receive direct revelations from G-d just like Moses did.

Many of us have and still are trying our best and despite it all even if we should have seen it coming are still disappointed and we're not interested in being told, I told you so. That's for kindergarten.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Pupashtetl on October 06, 2020, 10:36:11 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/VkWD839h/Ejs-Q1ui-Wo-AAJJd5.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 10:37:36 PM
That may be true, but none of them are as condensed as these neighborhoods currently being targeted so its not really a good comparison. But I'm honestly and sincerely glad for every place that's able to avoid a spike or outbreak and I wish that were able to be the case all over.

In either case, that wasn't really my point at all.  My point is that a lot of us are pretty sick of all these people on here that act like they receive direct revelations from G-d just like Moses did.

Many of us have and still are trying our best and despite it all even if we should have seen it coming are still disappointed and we're not interested in being told, I told you so. That's for kindergarten.
Honestly, it did not take anything more that open eyes. Someone who choose to delude himself maybe deserves to be spoken to like that. At least they should learn from their costly mistakes.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:37:54 PM
I'm not following. In brooklyn the frum communities did not stam test. So yes, there arent only jews in these zip codes, but a large percentage are.
And how do you know the non frum communities did? You canít use the fact that it was pushed by the city as a raya, because clearly that didnít matter to the frum community..
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:39:27 PM
That may be true, but none of them are as condensed as these neighborhoods currently being targeted so its not really a good comparison. But I'm honestly and sincerely glad for every place that's able to avoid a spike or outbreak and I wish that were able to be the case all over.

In either case, that wasn't really my point at all.  My point is that a lot of us are pretty sick of all these people on here that act like they receive direct revelations from G-d just like Moses did.

Many of us have and still are trying our best and despite it all even if we should have seen it coming are still disappointed and we're not interested in being told, I told you so. That's for kindergarten.
Lakewood is not more packed than many OOT communities.

The only people acting like they have revelations from G-d are those denying what is obvious and open al pi derech hateva in front of them. Donít be sick and tired of people saying I told you so, just do what needs to be done and it wonít happen.

When you act like a kindergartner, donít expect to be treated like an adult.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 06, 2020, 10:40:49 PM
The only people acting like they have revelations from G-d are those denying what is obvious and open al pi derech hateva in front of them.

-1000
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:41:31 PM
-1000
?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:41:42 PM
And how do you know the non frum communities did? You canít use the fact that it was pushed by the city as a raya, because clearly that didnít matter to the frum community..
I see it with my own eyes. I manage real estate in the city. I have thousands of tenants (all ranges from wealthy to rent stabilized). I'm on the streets in various neighborhoods every day talking to people.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:43:01 PM
I see it with my own eyes. I manage real estate in the city. I have thousands of tenants (all ranges from wealthy to rent stabilized). I'm on the streets in various neighborhoods every day talking to people.
And? You have statistics on how many healthy people in other communities tested vs. frum people?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Umm. But this happened. As predicted. And the places that practiced SD arenít experiencing spikes (yet). This non-argument is mind-numbingly senseless.

It wasn't an argument, so yes its a non-argument just as you wrote. And its also not mind-numbingly senseless. You totally missed my point which I explained above.

What is mind-numbingly senseless is your extreme rudeness to anyone that disagrees with you - not just to me.. You can say the same things politely, but perhaps its too much of an effort for you? Or perhaps I should be used to it by now? Unfortunately, for you, rudeness just isn't something I can get used to. Sorry.

And I hope I didn't come across here as rude or impolite. If I did, my apologies.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:45:27 PM
And? You have statistics on how many healthy people in other communities tested vs. frum people?
The average person I speak has been tested multiple times. Even if they never had any symptoms nor were they exposed. The feeling is one of "NY Strong" means we go to get tested.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 10:46:16 PM
?
Come on there is more than enough garbage to go around.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:46:55 PM
It wasn't an argument, so yes its a non-argument just as you wrote. And its also not mind-numbingly senseless. You totally missed my point which I explained above.

What is mind-numbingly senseless is your extreme rudeness to anyone that disagrees with you - not just to me.. You can say the same things politely, but perhaps its too much of an effort for you? Or perhaps I should be used to it by now? Unfortunately, for you, rudeness just isn't something I can get used to. Sorry.

And I hope I didn't come across here as rude or impolite. If I did, my apologies.
Not to be rude, but that was in response to this
Let's just imagine that this spike would have happened even though everyone would have worn masks religiously and practiced proper social distancing.

All those predictors out there would have still found some kind of reason to say: I told you so, it was predicted, we brought it on ourselves, etc.
If ever rudeness was called for, that was it
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 06, 2020, 10:47:10 PM
It wasn't an argument, so yes its a non-argument just as you wrote. And its also not mind-numbingly senseless. You totally missed my point which I explained above.

What is mind-numbingly senseless is your extreme rudeness to anyone that disagrees with you - not just to me.. You can say the same things politely, but perhaps its too much of an effort for you? Or perhaps I should be used to it by now? Unfortunately, for you, rudeness just isn't something I can get used to. Sorry.

And I hope I didn't come across here as rude or impolite. If I did, my apologies.
I don't remember a single instance where he was rude. It looks like you think poking your make-believe bubble is rude

The average person I speak has been tested multiple times. Even if they never had any symptoms nor were they exposed. The feeling is one of "NY Strong" means we go to get tested.
Give me a break. There is data on total tests performed.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 10:47:42 PM
The average person I speak has been tested multiple times. Even if they never had any symptoms nor were they exposed. The feeling is one of "NY Strong" means we go to get tested.
Thatís highly anecdotal but I guess Iíll take what I can get. Wish we had statistics per testing site, that would clear this up.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 10:48:08 PM
anyone not wearing a mask by this protest is ruining the whole thing.
We have to show them that we can do this safely to get the non-jewish public on our side. Otherwise photos of this protest will be on Coumo's show a.k.a. "press conference" tomorrow.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: RewardsAddict on October 06, 2020, 10:48:38 PM
I pass a NYC Covid testing site every day. All the people testing there are not visibly jewish, although its a pretty frum neighborhood.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Joel on October 06, 2020, 10:50:17 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:50:51 PM
Thatís highly anecdotal but I guess Iíll take what I can get. Wish we had statistics per testing site, that would clear this up.
True. I tried looking for it online but was unsuccessful. Please share if you find
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 10:53:17 PM
Honestly, it did not take anything more that open eyes. Someone who choose to delude himself maybe deserves to be spoken to like that. At least they should learn from their costly mistakes.

So you're saying that 100% of Jews in those zip codes were non compliant and were deluding themselves so they deserve to be spoken to that way? I hear.

In that case, I rest my case.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:06 PM
anyone not wearing a mask by this protest is ruining the whole thing.
People at a protest should be wearing masks.


We have to show them that we can do this safely to get the non-jewish public on our side. Otherwise photos of this protest will be on Coumo's show a.k.a. "press conference" tomorrow.
No one is getting anyone on any sides. Lol
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 06, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
is it true that they are using the eiruv map?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 10:56:45 PM
Just saw a video on a whats app status of some protest in BP. Were they chasing a reporter ? Anyone have the video ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
So you're saying that 100% of Jews in those zip codes were non compliant and were deluding themselves so they deserve to be spoken to that way? I hear.

In that case, I rest my case.
You just gave a prime example of YOU talking like a child. Where in the world did you get from what I said that I was referring to 100 percent? You totally made that up. It is to childishness like this that people reply to add to a child.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 06, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
So you're saying that 100% of Jews in those zip codes were non compliant and were deluding themselves so they deserve to be spoken to that way? I hear.

In that case, I rest my case.

No one is talking that way to people who were compliant. The ones who weren't and still insist on bellyaching about anti-Semitism and being singled out deserve to be reminded that they were told this was coming, and now they need to accept the consequences like adults.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 11:03:02 PM
So you're saying that 100% of Jews in those zip codes were non compliant and were deluding themselves so they deserve to be spoken to that way? I hear.

In that case, I rest my case.
Do you always put words in peopleís mouths?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 11:04:38 PM
is it true that they are using the eiruv map?
Well I guess I am safe then, as I dont hold of the eruv.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 11:05:22 PM
Well I guess I am safe then, as I dont hold of the eruv.
Do you hold of COVID?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 11:08:23 PM
You just gave a prime example of YOU talking like a child. Where in the world did you get from what I said that I was referring to 100 percent? You totally made that up. It is to childishness like this that people reply to add to a child.

That's exactly what you made it sound like with that previous statement.

All I said was that those of us that tried their best meaning they fully complied and always wore masks and practiced SD are not interested in being told, I told you so.

And your response was this which I'm sorry to say is just a repeat of the same frustrating reply:

Honestly, it did not take anything more that open eyes. Someone who choose to delude himself maybe deserves to be spoken to like that. At least they should learn from their costly mistakes.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 11:10:48 PM
That's exactly what you made it sound like with that previous statement.

All I said was that those of us that tried their best meaning they fully complied and always wore masks and practiced SD are not interested in being told, I told you so.

And your response was this which I'm sorry to say is just a repeat of the same frustrating reply:
I have not yet seen ANYONE say I told you so to someone who was careful. That is just another fallacy of yours.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 11:11:48 PM
Do you hold of COVID?
Poor response to an obvious joke.

Well I guess I am safe then, as I dont hold of the eruv.
You gave me a good chuckle
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 11:12:28 PM
Do you hold of COVID?
I hold of COVID, but not of all the Coved Rosh that it brings.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 06, 2020, 11:13:58 PM
Do you hold of hilchos COVID?
FTFY
No
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 11:17:35 PM
Poor response to an obvious joke.
Poor response to an obvious joke.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 11:19:13 PM

Mochel Lach.
Mochel Lach.
Mochel Lach.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 06, 2020, 11:19:59 PM
to get the non-jewish public on our side.
Thatís not going to happen.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 06, 2020, 11:20:19 PM
And? You have statistics on how many healthy people in other communities tested vs. frum people?
https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/cuomo-de-blasio-both-ignore-science-sense-in-latest-lockdown-moves/

Mentions the disparity of tests per 100k in certain neighborhoods.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:22:07 PM
Someone at the meal wasnt feeling great. Tested positive motzei Y"t. I tested positive 4 days later.
4% of people tested does not seem like its a high number when the focus groups are not the same. In the 9 neighborhoods, only people with symptoms were testing vs the rest everyone was getting tested.

I'm not saying there was no recklessness. However, this data isnt that bad. (IMHO)

Jews in NYC are lucky that many non-jews live in the same zip codes (and according to your anecdotal evidence those gentiles really enjoy testing) otherwise we'd be seeing positivity rates much closer to Lakewood (30%).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 11:23:34 PM
Thatís not going to happen.
https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/cuomo-de-blasio-both-ignore-science-sense-in-latest-lockdown-moves/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 11:23:45 PM

Next time chuck in there a smiley.  ;) It is difficult to tell with the rest of the fiery messages going on
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:26:01 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/cuomo-de-blasio-both-ignore-science-sense-in-latest-lockdown-moves/

Mentions the disparity of tests per 100k in certain neighborhoods.

Test rate per 100k - seems to be a cumulative number, not a running daily tally of positives/tests. So if 10k people tested in March and only 100 people tested in September how is the cumulative total insightful? More fake news?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 06, 2020, 11:28:16 PM
Test rate per 100k - seems to be a cumulative number, not a running daily tally of positives/tests. So if 10k people tested in March and only 100 people tested in September how is the cumulative total insightful? More fake news?
Could it be a rolling average?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 06, 2020, 11:28:43 PM
No one is talking that way to people who were compliant. The ones who weren't and still insist on bellyaching about anti-Semitism and being singled out deserve to be reminded that they were told this was coming, and now they need to accept the consequences like adults.
the ones screaming anti-semitism while I don't agree with it have made one good point, it might be best to hear them out and not just dismiss them.
When it's a riot and people aren't socially distancing burning buildings (which causes smoke which transports droplets and particles) and looting many have not worn masks and that was ok, but this, we need drastic action!
This point I must say makes it sound like there is an agenda going on.
I don't agree with it but it definitely is a fair point that needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 11:28:54 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/cuomo-de-blasio-both-ignore-science-sense-in-latest-lockdown-moves/

Mentions the disparity of tests per 100k in certain neighborhoods.

Well put article. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:29:17 PM
So now all of the shuls that werent requiring mask and dont care about the law will continue as is, and the ones that were open in a safe manor and care about the law will have to drastically change their operations. what did this accomplish?
What is needed is enforcement of existing laws.

Not so bold prediction - there wonít be any enforcement, at least initially. And weíll continue on our ways, and the situation will remain bad if not getting worse. Then NYC will get fed up and actually start enforcing, it will look real ugly, and weíll fire off our press releases calling everyone anti-semites.

Can't wait.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:34:43 PM
Could it be a rolling average?

It could be anything, but without any context or sources, I will assume that it's fake news.

Prime example - Park Slope is singled out for much higher testing than other neighborhoods, which supposedly is unfairly making Park Slope look great. But what it failed to mention is that Park Slope also has one of the lowest antibody rates in the entire NYC. It isn't just increased COVID testing that's making it look good. It literally has been one of the safest neighborhoods in NYC since the start. https://patch.com/new-york/parkslope/park-slope-sees-lowest-coronavirus-antibody-test-rate-brooklyn
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 06, 2020, 11:35:05 PM
Not so bold prediction - there wonít be any enforcement, at least initially. And weíll continue on our ways, and the situation will remain bad if not getting worse. Then NYC will get fed up and actually start enforcing, it will look real ugly, and weíll fire off our press releases calling everyone anti-semites.

Can't wait.
It will be held up in court.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:37:08 PM
It will be held up in court.

What I've learned from DDF, perhaps it's not true - is that constitutionally, houses of worship cannot have stricter rules than similar gatherings. And they don't. In fact all mass gatherings are banned except for worship. What am I getting wrong?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 11:37:32 PM
Not so bold prediction - there wonít be any enforcement, at least initially. And weíll continue on our ways, and the situation will remain bad if not getting worse. Then NYC will get fed up and actually start enforcing, it will look real ugly, and weíll fire off our press releases calling everyone anti-semites.

Can't wait.

If they won't enforce over the 2nd days yom tov, then they totally missed the point on this one.

Not that I'm complaining... just saying....
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 06, 2020, 11:40:17 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/zvNSncrY/IMG-20201006-WA0055.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbdgNpvx)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 11:41:54 PM
What I've learned from DDF, perhaps it's not true - is that constitutionally, houses of worship cannot have stricter rules than similar gatherings. And they don't. In fact all mass gatherings are banned except for worship. What am I getting wrong?
How about not condemning the protests/riots?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 06, 2020, 11:42:23 PM
the ones screaming anti-semitism while I don't agree with it have made one good point, it might be best to hear them out and not just dismiss them.
When it's a riot and people aren't socially distancing burning buildings (which causes smoke which transports droplets and particles) and looting many have not worn masks and that was ok, but this, we need drastic action!
This point I must say makes it sound like there is an agenda going on.
I don't agree with it but it definitely is a fair point that needs to be addressed.

There is only one fair point, which I mentioned on the Tweets thread. The disparity in the ways outdoor gatherings have been policed is atrocious. Full stop. Past that, comparing outdoor gatherings/riots/protests of any kind to indoor gatherings is a non-starter. You don't need to like the way either is being handled (I don't), but they cannot be compared.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 11:42:39 PM
If they won't enforce over the 2nd days yom tov, then they totally missed the point on this one.

Not that I'm complaining... just saying....
Hopefully it won't be needed, but if c"v applicable people will be totally right to say i told you so to you.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 11:43:53 PM
How about not condemning the protests/riots?
Outdoors is a very big distinction which has already held up in court.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 11:44:27 PM
What I've learned from DDF, perhaps it's not true - is that constitutionally, houses of worship cannot have stricter rules than similar gatherings. And they don't. In fact all mass gatherings are banned except for worship. What am I getting wrong?

No it was having a double standard for businesses and houses of worship and also because of this:

How about not condemning the protests/riots?

Read this article, explains it very well:  https://hamodia.com/2020/06/26/federal-judge-overturns-new-york-limitation-religious-gatherings/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 06, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Hopefully it won't be needed, but if c"v applicable people will be totally right to say i told you so to you.

Give it a rest.

Please.

And thank you.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 06, 2020, 11:48:56 PM
What I've learned from DDF, perhaps it's not true - is that constitutionally, houses of worship cannot have stricter rules than similar gatherings. And they don't. In fact all mass gatherings are banned except for worship. What am I getting wrong?
If only the only issue is that we are we being singled out only because houses of worship.

Or consider the following:

1. Our stores and streets were singled out more than others.
2. We were Singled out in the news and tweets constantly
3. Only our parks were closed. (Please don't try to argue this)
4. Press conference regarding mask compliance had to be recorded in 18th Ave Park.


This is off the top of my head.. The list goes on and on.   

I'm not in denial about compliance in our communities, but to say that we aren't being singled out is straight up naive.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 06, 2020, 11:50:09 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 06, 2020, 11:53:36 PM
Outdoors is a very big distinction which has already held up in court.
No difference is made under the current law between indoor and outdoor religious gatherings, still 10 max
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 06, 2020, 11:54:42 PM
I'm not in denial about compliance in our communities
  :o
You think its our messed up ashkenazic genetics?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 11:55:36 PM
No difference is made under the current law between indoor and outdoor religious gatherings, still 10 max
Leave it to those idiots to bungle it
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:55:51 PM
If only the only issue is that we are we being singled out only because houses of worship.

Or consider the following:

1. Our stores and streets were singled out more than others.
2. We were Singled out in the news and tweets constantly
3. Only our parks were closed. (Please don't try to argue this)
4. Press conference regarding mask compliance had to be recorded in 18th Ave Park.


This is off the top of my head.. The list goes on and on.   

I'm not in denial about compliance in our communities, but to say that we aren't being singled out is straight up naive.

Do you mean to say that the metrics the government has been parroting since 6 months ago as the parameters for a shutdown have singled out your neighborhood? Sorry, but stats don't care about your feelings.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Do you mean to say that the metrics the government has been parroting since 6 months ago as the parameters for a shutdown have singled out your neighborhood? Sorry, but stats don't care about your feelings.
There was clearly selective enforcement
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2020, 11:57:56 PM
There was clearly selective enforcement

Which zip codes could have been included in this enforcement?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 06, 2020, 11:58:55 PM
Which zip codes could have been included in this enforcement?
Look back a few months and this was all clearly documented.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: dasmo801 on October 06, 2020, 11:59:24 PM
the ones screaming anti-semitism while I don't agree with it have made one good point, it might be best to hear them out and not just dismiss them.
When it's a riot and people aren't socially distancing burning buildings (which causes smoke which transports droplets and particles) and looting many have not worn masks and that was ok, but this, we need drastic action!
This point I must say makes it sound like there is an agenda going on.
I don't agree with it but it definitely is a fair point that needs to be addressed.
Not really such a great point. They ignored the riots and they (for the most part) ignored the frum non compliance. What they won't ignore is a massive outbreak. I have seen no reporting of that happening in the wake of BLM protests. 
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 06, 2020, 11:59:57 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
This is gonna get really ugly unfortunately. And we will have people crying here as to why we arenít getting favorable coverage for our protests a la the ones for BLM. Sigh
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 07, 2020, 12:00:30 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 12:01:51 AM
I have seen no reporting of that happening in the wake of BLM protests.
the reason for that was they told the testers and contact tracers they aren't allowed to ask about whether someone went to a protest.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 07, 2020, 12:03:55 AM
the reason for that was they told the testers and contact tracers they aren't allowed to ask about whether someone went to a protest.
Thatís because it would be impossible to contact people at the protests anyways. All it would do was turn people off from cooperating with the contact tracers.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 12:04:17 AM
the reason for that was they told the testers and contact tracers they aren't allowed to ask about whether someone went to a protest.

How many cases did NYC have over the summer while all those massive protests were happening?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:04:47 AM
the reason for that was they told the testers and contact tracers they aren't allowed to ask about whether someone went to a protest.

But regardless there was no massive increase in positive cases due to the outbreak.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:05:12 AM
This is gonna get really ugly unfortunately.
Hopefully not. I dont believe the local precincts will enforce. Everyone will ignore the rules and life will continue on. Post Y"T there will be mass testing (only if you have no symptoms) to flatten out the numbers.

Am I too optimistic ? Perhaps
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:07:41 AM
Look back a few months and this was all clearly documented.

Wasn't paying close attention but from what I remember from DDF nearly every zipcode with high positive rates had a significant Jewish presence. Is that untrue?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 12:09:04 AM
Wasn't paying close attention but from what I remember from DDF nearly every zipcode with high positive rates had a significant Jewish presence. Is that untrue?
Untrue
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 07, 2020, 12:09:21 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 12:10:55 AM
Wasn't paying close attention but from what I remember from DDF nearly every zipcode with high positive rates had a significant Jewish presence. Is that untrue?

Ultimately, yes. But the numbers in the summer were the same all over NY, and he hit the parks very unevenly. The other stuff you can blame on lower compliance, but no one was complying outdoors in NY over the summer.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 07, 2020, 12:11:21 AM
Hopefully not. I dont believe the local precincts will enforce. Everyone will ignore the rules and life will continue on. Post Y"T there will be mass testing (only if you have no symptoms) to flatten out the numbers.

Am I too optimistic ? Perhaps
This is what I think will happen over the next couple weeks

Cuomo demanded de blasio give him 400 police officers to join his personal army. De blasio already said thatís not gonna happen. They will squabble over it for a couple days all the while there will be mass disobedience in the Jewish communities. Cuomoís next step will be either deputize the national guard (longshot/no clue if legal or possible) or put every single trooper into Brooklyn (remember we are dealing with madmen here). Whoever Cuomo sends in will be ruthless and it will get really ugly really fast. 

I hope Iím wrong but I have a couple people who are very well connected in terms of Albany politics who canít believe what is going on here. Everyone here in NY is being used as pawns in a feud between two lunatic psychopaths.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 07, 2020, 12:12:23 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 07, 2020, 12:12:40 AM
Talk about drawing a target on our back and giving them a reason to hate us. אסור להתגרות באומות.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 07, 2020, 12:13:43 AM
This is what I think will happen over the next couple weeks

Cuomo demanded de blasio give him 400 police officers to join his personal army. De blasio already said thatís not gonna happen. They will squabble over it for a couple days all the while there will be mass disobedience in the Jewish communities. Cuomoís next step will be either deputize the national guard (longshot/no clue if legal or possible) or put every single trooper into Brooklyn (remember we are dealing with madmen here). Whoever Cuomo sends in will be ruthless and it will get really ugly really fast. 

I hope Iím wrong but I have a couple people who are very well connected in terms of Albany politics who canít believe what is going on here. Everyone here in NY is being used as pawns in a feud between two lunatic psychopaths.
Sounds like DOH will be enforcing
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 12:14:18 AM
This is what I think will happen over the next couple weeks

Cuomo demanded de blasio give him 400 police officers to join his personal army. De blasio already said thatís not gonna happen. They will squabble over it for a couple days all the while there will be mass disobedience in the Jewish communities. Cuomoís next step will be either deputize the national guard (longshot/no clue if legal or possible) or put every single trooper into Brooklyn (remember we are dealing with madmen here). Whoever Cuomo sends in will be ruthless and it will get really ugly really fast. 

I hope Iím wrong but I have a couple people who are very well connected in terms of Albany politics who canít believe what is going on here. Everyone here in NY is being used as pawns in a feud between two lunatic psychopaths.
State troopers already begged last time to not be sent into the city. :D
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 07, 2020, 12:14:21 AM
Sounds like DOH will be enforcing
Impossible for them to do real enforcement.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 07, 2020, 12:14:56 AM
Impossible for them to do real enforcement.
Can't they give tickets? Shuls can be fined
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 07, 2020, 12:15:12 AM
Sounds like DOH will be enforcing

How?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 07, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Impossible for them to do real enforcement.
Large monetary fines are very easy. 
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 07, 2020, 12:15:41 AM
How?
Fines
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:15:59 AM
Ultimately, yes. But the numbers in the summer were the same all over NY, and he hit the parks very unevenly. The other stuff you can blame on lower compliance, but no one was complying outdoors in NY over the summer.

Not understanding - what does this have to do with compliance? And how did he hit the parks unevenly?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:16:27 AM
Large monetary fines are very easy.
And just as easy to get dismissed.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Joel on October 07, 2020, 12:16:35 AM
Can't they give tickets? Shuls can be fined
Some camps have gotten tickets and ignored the rules during the summer .. So what they still stayed open
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 07, 2020, 12:17:10 AM
Fines

To people without ID?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 07, 2020, 12:17:23 AM
Some camps have gotten tickets and ignored the rules during the summer .. So what they still stayed open
They are profitable, and therefore were willing to pay. Most shuls don't have an extra 15k to she'll out
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 07, 2020, 12:17:57 AM
To people without ID?
To shuls
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 12:18:31 AM
But regardless there was no massive increase in positive cases due to the outbreak.
the numbers are about the same, from July till now if you look at the data day to day. Yes some days are better than others.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 07, 2020, 12:18:39 AM
And just as easy to get dismissed.
Especially when you are dealing with a dictator thatís deciding what happens with 19 million people with the Scribble of a pen.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Joel on October 07, 2020, 12:19:01 AM
They are profitable, and therefore were willing to pay. Most shuls don't have an extra 15k to she'll out
We collect millions!  A few 15k can easily be arranged
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 12:19:13 AM
To shuls
Good luck finding the ďorganizerĒ of the gathering.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:19:21 AM
To shuls
A shul getting a DOH fine will get dismissed very quickly.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:19:40 AM
Good luck finding the ďorganizerĒ of the gathering.
It would go on the entity that owns the building.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:21:29 AM
Especially when you are dealing with a dictator thatís deciding what happens with 19 million people with the Scribble of a pen.
Exactly. Besides from it holding up in a hearing, the chance of them writing the violation correctly is near impossible given the short notice that will be taught how to issue
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 07, 2020, 12:21:51 AM
They are profitable, and therefore were willing to pay. Most shuls don't have an extra 15k to she'll out

I'm wondering if they even paid. Do you know for a fact that they did? Just curious.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 12:24:04 AM
And how did he hit the parks unevenly?
a park on bay parkway and cropsey was open while 18th Ave park was shuttered the drive is about 3 minutes.....
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 07, 2020, 12:24:05 AM
Exactly. Besides from it holding up in a hearing, the chance of them writing the violation correctly is near impossible given the short notice that will be taught how to issue
So theyíll keep on happening. Cuomo will keep crying and screaming at de blasio (but not by name of course - he hates him to much to even mention his name) and he will say ďtime for me take overĒ.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 07, 2020, 12:24:18 AM
Exactly. Besides from it holding up in a hearing, the chance of them writing the violation correctly is near impossible given the short notice that will be taught how to issue

Which brings us right back to square 1. Which is no enforcement at least to begin with.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 12:25:44 AM
a park on bay parkway and cropsey was open while 18th Ave park was shuttered the drive is about 3 minutes.....
Most parks right outside of BP were open.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:26:31 AM
Which brings us right back to square 1. Which is no enforcement at least to begin with.
Unless he brings in troopers to forcefully empty buildings. Not sure the legality of that though. DOH will be an absolute joke.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 12:27:36 AM
Most parks right outside of BP were open.
true I specifically used that one because I went there on a 911 call so I knew it was open
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 07, 2020, 12:27:38 AM
Unless he brings in troopers to forcefully empty buildings. Not sure the *legality* of that though. DOH will be an absolute joke.
Cuomo couldnít care less about the law. He will just sign a new executive order which he calls laws even though they couldnít be further from it.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:28:00 AM
Most parks right outside of BP were open.
East Harlem, Washington Heights etc were all open
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 12:33:59 AM
Unless he brings in troopers to forcefully empty buildings. Not sure the legality of that though. DOH will be an absolute joke.
Cuomo expects local law enforcement to enforce his rules. NYPD canít stand him or his rules. State troopers donít want to do it (& NYPD doesnít like troopers taking over their turf). A 3-ring circus
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:36:50 AM
Most parks right outside of BP were open.

Are they in the same zipcode?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 12:38:06 AM
Are they in the same zipcode?
so the virus knows to stay out of a zipcode over?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:39:27 AM
so the virus knows to stay out of a zipcode over?

Apparently there aren't enough Jews testing positive there, so yes.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 12:40:31 AM
Are they in the same zipcode?
During the first wave the entire city was on lockdown, no ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:49:02 AM
During the first wave the entire city was on lockdown, no ?

Just to understand, you prefer a widespread vs a tactical approach? If Buffalo decides that COVID is fake and lets it rip, we should lock down BP?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 12:53:53 AM
Just to understand, you prefer a widespread vs a tactical approach? If Buffalo decides that COVID is fake and lets it rip, we should lock down BP?
This was in response to the clear bias regarding parks. The closures were when parks in bp were closed but others (mentioned upthread) were open during a time that the whole city was under lockdown.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 12:55:01 AM
Just to understand, you prefer a widespread vs a tactical approach? If Buffalo decides that COVID is fake and lets it rip, we should lock down BP?
the tactical approach has to make sense and be in conjunction with the people living there or it won't work, not just against them, the fact that during the summer when they targeted specific parks to close them there was no uptick in cases and 3 minutes away parks were open.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:55:43 AM
This was in response to the clear bias regarding parks. The closures were when parks in bp were closed but others (mentioned upthread) were open during a time that the whole city was under lockdown.

I was asking asking about bias right now and the response is that parks in April were unevenly closed?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 07, 2020, 12:56:00 AM
Apparently there aren't enough Jews testing positive there, so yes.

Seriously?

Just to understand, you prefer a widespread vs a tactical approach? If Buffalo decides that COVID is fake and lets it rip, we should lock down BP?

You totally missed his point. At that time the metrics in BP were as good (or bad - whichever way you prefer to name it) as the neighboring zip cides and the parks there should not have been singled out.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 12:58:46 AM
Just to understand, you prefer a widespread vs a tactical approach? If Buffalo decides that COVID is fake and lets it rip, we should lock down BP?
Again, parks were shut during the first wave when it was rampant citywide. At some point when first wave ended, parks all over were quietly unchained while they refused to open the BP & whilly parks.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 12:59:47 AM
You totally missed his point. At that time the metrics in BP were as good as the neighboring zip cides and the parks there should not have been singled out.

He clearly missed the context of this thread that we are talking about recent closures, and I was talking in the same vein. So remind me again, how are positivity rate zipcode-based closures in OCTOBER antisemitic?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 01:01:06 AM
Again, parks were shut during the first wave when it was rampant citywide. At some point when first wave ended, parks all over were quietly unchained while they refused to open the BP & whilly parks.

Since when are we discussing events of 6 months ago? My posts were discussing the positive rates of the past couple months, what happened in April is irrelevant to this discussion.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 01:02:16 AM
He clearly missed the context of this thread that we are talking about recent closures, and I was talking in the same vein. So remind me again, how are positivity rate zipcode-based closures in OCTOBER antisemitic?
You need to reread the thread. You skipped a part.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 07, 2020, 01:02:23 AM
  :o
Doesn't contradict anything.   We were singled out before  a "second wave"   before there were any data points.

I try to keep an open mind regarding all of this.  But I still think we are being singled out.  Doesn't mean I believe we are following the rules.  Its my opinion from right from the start...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 01:03:16 AM
He clearly missed the context of this thread that we are talking about recent closures, and I was talking in the same vein. So remind me again, how are positivity rate zipcode-based closures in OCTOBER antisemitic?
when people see a trend they become suspicious, just like cops being overly cautious (which puts them at risk)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 01:07:12 AM
You need to reread the thread. You skipped a part.

I started this particular topic of conversation so perhaps someone else took it off topic. I stated that the recent positive rates are higher in the zip codes with significant Jewish presence and that the stats donít lie. Please explain to me whatís the park lockdowns in April have to do with the price of tea in China? I may as well bring up the Holocaust to prove that Jews are not well liked.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 07, 2020, 01:07:25 AM
He clearly missed the context of this thread that we are talking about recent closures, and I was talking in the same vein. So remind me again, how are positivity rate zipcode-based closures in OCTOBER antisemitic?

It was in response to your below question:

And how did he hit the parks unevenly?

So I'm guessing that's how this went off on a tangent.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 01:08:23 AM
He clearly missed the context of this thread that we are talking about recent closures, and I was talking in the same vein. So remind me again, how are positivity rate zipcode-based closures in OCTOBER antisemitic?
For starters he should leave the words ďorthodoxĒ & ďjewsĒ out. Me & my children had to face down a hateful verbal assault today. My crime ? Being in a big public park which my tax dollars go towards. Me & every child of mine were wearing masks. He wasnít. He started with the regular garbage that we need Hitler back to finish the job. And then he threatened to come F us up.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 01:09:26 AM
It was in response to your below question:

So I'm guessing that's how this went off on a tangent.

Could be. I thought we were talking about parks being closed again.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: whacked1 on October 07, 2020, 01:11:45 AM
Could be. I thought we were talking about parks being closed again.
Parks were never closed again
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yochiek93 on October 07, 2020, 01:13:09 AM
I started this particular topic of conversation so perhaps someone else took it off topic. I stated that the recent positive rates are higher in the zip codes with significant Jewish presence and that the stats donít lie. Please explain to me whatís the park lockdowns in April have to do with the price of tea in China? I may as well bring up the Holocaust to prove that Jews are not well liked.
the stats can be manipulated and also taken out of context
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 01:13:33 AM
For starters he should leave the words ďorthodoxĒ & ďjewsĒ out. Me & my children had to face down a hateful verbal assault today. My crime ? Being in a big public park which my tax dollars go towards. Me & every child of mine were wearing masks. He wasnít. He started with the regular garbage that we need Hitler back to finish the job. And then he threatened to come F us up.

Should he leave out those terms because itís false or because of the consequences? If for the latter reason, where do you draw the line? Do you never mention black crime or are you the PC type?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 01:19:42 AM
Parks were never closed again

My OP was about the current positivity rates not caring about our feelings. Somehow that triggered the mention of parks being shut down unevenly so I am/was confused and thought the response was talking about the current situation. Further confused because Howell actually closed all their parks today, thought NYC was doing the same in affected areas.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 01:22:06 AM
Should he leave out those terms because itís false or because of the consequences? If for the latter reason, where do you draw the line? Do you never mention black crime or are you the PC type?
When is the last time Cuomo or Diblasio called out the ďblackĒ community for anything ? If constantly attacking by name incites people to violence he needs to tone it down.
Iíve been pretty clear from the beginning that targeting specific zip codes isnít due to anti semitism.
Nothing to do with AS. When reopening began it was made very clear they would be monitoring the numbers. And we all begged to be allowed to reopen & weíll follow all the rules, just let us open the schools & stores. 99.9% have been ignoring the rules. What do you expect ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 01:56:19 AM
When is the last time Cuomo or Diblasio called out the ďblackĒ community for anything ? If constantly attacking by name incites people to violence he needs to tone it down.
Iíve been pretty clear from the beginning that targeting specific zip codes isnít due to anti semitism.

Blacks will never get singled out because they are indeed nebach cases that were taught how to vote Democrat. Calling out orthodox Jews is just stating the facts. If thatís inciting violence, I blame the orthodox Jews for causing that. I donít either like double standards but thatís always been the reality and we are all fully aware of it. Deblasio, despite his insanity, did not cause Orthodox Jews to be mostly non-compliant with basically every rule that was set, and did not cause the positivity rates to skyrocket.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 02:03:11 AM
If thatís inciting violence, I blame the orthodox Jews for causing that.
Youíre entitled to your opinion but this isnít how it works in the United States.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 02:08:37 AM
Youíre entitled to your opinion but this isnít how it works in the United States.

PC culture never cared, and will never care about Jews IMHO. Which might be why many of us donít to subscribe to PC culture. Itís hard for me to argue in favor of pursuing PC rhetoric when it finally suits me and still will never make any  impact.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: good sam on October 07, 2020, 03:32:27 AM


Blacks will never get singled out because they are indeed nebach cases that were taught how to vote Democrat. Calling out orthodox Jews is just stating the facts. If thatís inciting violence, I blame the orthodox Jews for causing that. I donít either like double standards but thatís always been the reality and we are all fully aware of it. Deblasio, despite his insanity, did not cause Orthodox Jews to be mostly non-compliant with basically every rule that was set, and did not cause the positivity rates to skyrocket.
This is the sad sad truth. They could start building ghettos and concentration camps tomorrow and we would have nowhere to look but inward.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Joel on October 07, 2020, 09:31:37 AM
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/religious-discrimination-andrew-cuomo-and-bill-de-blasio-have-violated-first-amendment-religious-freedom
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 09:40:02 AM
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/religious-discrimination-andrew-cuomo-and-bill-de-blasio-have-violated-first-amendment-religious-freedom
Whatís the point of this ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 09:44:31 AM
Whatís the point of this ?

NOISE! Make some NOISE! Mach a tumult! GEVALT!!!

We've become the people we used to mock.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
NOISE! Make some NOISE! Mach a tumult! GEVALT!!!

We've become the people we used to mock.
This doesnít even make noise.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 07, 2020, 09:47:25 AM
This doesnít even make noise.

People think it does. If we get enough signatures, the media will run our story and we'll put pressure on nobody to do nothing and then we can make a JLM protest outside Gracie Mansion.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 07, 2020, 10:42:56 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 07, 2020, 10:59:46 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
WHY??🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shapsam on October 07, 2020, 12:23:21 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 07, 2020, 04:53:35 PM
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-cluster-action-initiative

Can anyone exlpain why LOGICALLY the following is true:

1)Bingahmton /Broome County is only a yellow (no orange or red)
  (we all know the real reason but are there any good official excuses)
2)KJ/Monsey - no Orange
3)Why big parts of Monsey are only Yellow
4)Why Kew Gardens 11415 is only Yellow/Orange not red.
   Both Queens boys Yeshivas-Yeshiva Ketana and Tiferes Moshe are in Yellow zones
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 05:03:03 PM

Are they a cohesive ethnicity?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 07, 2020, 05:10:15 PM
Are they a cohesive ethnicity?

 
And the Jews are?

I got a taste today of *one* Chabad organization getting dozens of calls today asking why Chabad is burning masks.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 07, 2020, 05:27:12 PM

And the Jews are?

I got a taste today of *one* Chabad organization getting dozens of calls today asking why Chabad is burning masks.
Come on. Maybe Binghapton is populated by mostly one ethnicity. I don't know, but if not then there is simply no ethnicity to call out at all.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 07, 2020, 05:32:24 PM
Are they a cohesive ethnicity?

College students who donít take COVID precautions seriously.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 05:38:48 PM
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-cluster-action-initiative

Can anyone exlpain why LOGICALLY the following is true:

1)Bingahmton /Broome County is only a yellow (no orange or red)
  (we all know the real reason but are there any good official excuses)
2)KJ/Monsey - no Orange
3)Why big parts of Monsey are only Yellow
4)Why Kew Gardens 11415 is only Yellow/Orange not red.
   Both Queens boys Yeshivas-Yeshiva Ketana and Tiferes Moshe are in Yellow zones

I think your questions are more illuminating than perplexing, as this is pointing to metric based shutdowns and not religion based. If I have to guess, they are looking at sustained excess positivity rates, and are shutting areas in different levels based on severity + length.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: grodnoking on October 07, 2020, 05:49:17 PM
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-cluster-action-initiative

Can anyone exlpain why LOGICALLY the following is true:

1)Bingahmton /Broome County is only a yellow (no orange or red)
  (we all know the real reason but are there any good official excuses)
2)KJ/Monsey - no Orange
3)Why big parts of Monsey are only Yellow
4)Why Kew Gardens 11415 is only Yellow/Orange not red.
   Both Queens boys Yeshivas-Yeshiva Ketana and Tiferes Moshe are in Yellow zones
i can try to answer # 4.
Clearly something was wrong with their numbers as 11415 was not on Cuomo's daily list for a few days until deblasio decided that it is. it seems the sources of their numbers can be off from each other, which would explain why Cuomo didn't push it, also you can answer like yuneeq which is that kew gardens was the lowest number on the list and was dropping as the new restrictions were coming out.

truth be told the schools wont be open for more than a week, as after the first set of forced testing of the entire school they'll have significant false positives  (from people who were previously sick but never got tested getting positive results from the ultra sensitive tests)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 06:23:23 PM
(from people who were previously sick but never got tested getting positive results from the ultra sensitive tests)
I havenít heard of anybody testing positive from lingering virus more than 8-12 weeks later. Or are you referring to people infected in this wave?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: grodnoking on October 07, 2020, 06:52:28 PM
I havenít heard of anybody testing positive from lingering virus more than 8-12 weeks later. Or are you referring to people infected in this wave?
Im gonna post this that I wrote sy the end of June.
My entire family gets covid a week after purim. Mother, father, sister, brother and me. parents and sister test positive then, brother and i get symptoms. Shortly after Pesach my parents test positive for antibodies. few weeks later me and my brother test positive for antibodies. parents both test negative for virus around the same time. now more recently siblings and i get negative swab tests (1.5 to 2.5 weeks ago). in quick succession sister tests positive while brother and test negative. next sister test negative but brother comes back positive. then brother comes back negative but i come back positive!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 07, 2020, 06:56:02 PM
I think your questions are more illuminating than perplexing, as this is pointing to metric based shutdowns and not religion based. If I have to guess, they are looking at sustained excess positivity rates, and are shutting areas in different levels based on severity + length.
I dont believe any metrics were published, they just made up the borders.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: cmey on October 07, 2020, 07:01:15 PM
I dont believe any metrics were published, they just made up the borders.
Maybe they took into account walking distance so the Jews wonít be able to rent warehouses outside the zone and have everyone walk in for hakafos and davening?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 07, 2020, 07:14:19 PM
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-cluster-action-initiative

Can anyone exlpain why LOGICALLY the following is true:

1)Bingahmton /Broome County is only a yellow (no orange or red)
  (we all know the real reason but are there any good official excuses)
2)KJ/Monsey - no Orange
3)Why big parts of Monsey are only Yellow
4)Why Kew Gardens 11415 is only Yellow/Orange not red.
   Both Queens boys Yeshivas-Yeshiva Ketana and Tiferes Moshe are in Yellow zones
Broome county is at 6.1 Higher than any county in NYC. and only Yellow...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 07, 2020, 07:32:17 PM
Broome county is at 6.1 Higher than any county in NYC. and only Yellow...
ותלמוד תורה כנגד כולם
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 07, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 07, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
Invalid Tweet ID

Correlation, not causation.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 07:49:18 PM
Correlation, not causation.
(https://i.imgur.com/HBy40vt.png)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 07, 2020, 07:51:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/HBy40vt.png)

Whatís the second skyline?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 07:51:29 PM
Whatís the second skyline?
don't know, but the correlation is cute
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yungermanchik on October 07, 2020, 07:53:49 PM
Whatís the second skyline?
Kings landing (https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZispzhn9wwg_12z5RH5wsKDOP1lAdmDK8l7cdRbieBI5P5V6g-ky1b8RkyO4cc1xFbs1zp5BhUqhTWRhsSp9QUYqk6_1DQS6MGUZQvPJeSyH9AVj95BX6mVEEkVXkUMiChHwrBSJ9a6A0YIfpWr8kBeHTSS4NGlIb5IgdsmCmnxg3ttvSkaX2hGo5xUCJXr_19sWaW0IMzKpaXLN0Cf8PO4Mnt1lNahBugT4UCm4GWJFshmKf_1DW1dBKff362iKLNhzVUF-0Ay8XHC11WhefhsBTOsmF1zERDwS1Qmga2RzqpWnm1ZV59bIpMMsfyOhdBTN6Hme6Hy8lMOKFqnwXrfiUdV4ijZnOw)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 07:56:05 PM
Im gonna post this that I wrote sy the end of June.
My entire family gets covid a week after purim. Mother, father, sister, brother and me. parents and sister test positive then, brother and i get symptoms. Shortly after Pesach my parents test positive for antibodies. few weeks later me and my brother test positive for antibodies. parents both test negative for virus around the same time. now more recently siblings and i get negative swab tests (1.5 to 2.5 weeks ago). in quick succession sister tests positive while brother and test negative. next sister test negative but brother comes back positive. then brother comes back negative but i come back positive!
Thatís around 12 weeks, which is the outer limit that Iíve heard. Have you heard of anybody testing positive later than that? 6 months out is quite the stretch.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 08:01:17 PM
Thatís around 12 weeks, which is the outer limit that Iíve heard. Have you heard of anybody testing positive later than that? 6 months out is quite the stretch.
I know of one person who tested positive ~4-5 months later
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 07, 2020, 08:07:28 PM
I know of one person who tested positive ~4-5 months later
Was it lingering virus, or a reinfection? Any reason to believe they were exposed?

There certainly is some level of false positives. Theyíre just not that common.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 07, 2020, 08:11:13 PM
Was it lingering virus, or a reinfection? Any reason to believe they were exposed?
I don't know enough to answer those questions but afaik they were quarantining until receiving a negative test, hence tested repeatedly every few weeks.

Correct, one example does not make something common, it just shows that it's possible.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 07, 2020, 09:02:58 PM
Invalid Tweet ID

Data like this is great because you can use it to prove whatever preconceived notion you already have.

Conservative: Cuomo is punishing Trump voters with lockdown!
Liberal: Trump voters are so stupid they are spreading COVID wherever they are!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 10:20:09 PM
Im gonna post this that I wrote sy the end of June.
My entire family gets covid a week after purim. Mother, father, sister, brother and me. parents and sister test positive then, brother and i get symptoms. Shortly after Pesach my parents test positive for antibodies. few weeks later me and my brother test positive for antibodies. parents both test negative for virus around the same time. now more recently siblings and i get negative swab tests (1.5 to 2.5 weeks ago). in quick succession sister tests positive while brother and test negative. next sister test negative but brother comes back positive. then brother comes back negative but i come back positive!

Any symptoms?

What prompted the test?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: grodnoking on October 07, 2020, 10:23:16 PM
Any symptoms?

What prompted the test?
No symptoms whatsoever with the later (positive) tests. 2 Tests were taken to be able to help a high risk relative. I took the 3rd test because my brother had a "positive" test.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 10:56:59 PM
No symptoms whatsoever with the later (positive) tests. 2 Tests were taken to be able to help a high risk relative. I took the 3rd test because my brother had a "positive" test.

You should move to the reinfection thread.

Any idea how you got reinfected?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: grodnoking on October 07, 2020, 11:24:14 PM
You should move to the reinfection thread.

Any idea how you got reinfected?
😏
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mf1 on October 07, 2020, 11:41:10 PM
Rabbi Braun just released another voicenote on dividing between doing what the doctors say and what cuomo says
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: elimmm on October 07, 2020, 11:43:06 PM
Rabbi Braun just released another voicenote on dividing between doing what the doctors say and what cuomo says
who's dat?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 07, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
Rabbi Braun just released another voicenote on dividing between doing what the doctors say and what cuomo says

To me some segments sounded like it had traces of backtracking on some previous stances.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 08, 2020, 12:01:44 AM
Rabbi Braun just released another voicenote on dividing between doing what the doctors say and what cuomo says
Post it or email to me and I'll post.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yas on October 08, 2020, 01:07:35 AM
For those that would like to compare data of the various zip codes in NYC, it's available here.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-recent.page

and here

https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/recent/recent-4-week-by-modzcta.csv
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 08, 2020, 02:01:46 AM
Rabbi Braun just released another voicenote on dividing between doing what the doctors say and what cuomo says
https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/08020040/AUD-20201007-WA0118.m4a
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 08, 2020, 05:31:46 AM
statistics don't lie liars use statistics

https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/10/audio-lakewood-rabbonim-release-new-message.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 08, 2020, 06:13:15 AM
https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/08020040/AUD-20201007-WA0118.m4a
Really interesting points. Maybe Hashem wants us to be moser nefesh for our shuls, something that Jews had to do for hundreds of years until the last half century in this country. Maybe things have become too easy and we have taken them for granted and that is itself part of the message.

While this situation obviously doesnít have the din of שעת השמד , since even if there is an anti Semitic component the intent is payback and punishment, not an attack on the religion per se, it does have an eerie similarity to times in our history when it was.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 08, 2020, 10:37:16 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1907891/thanks-cuomo-hasidic-jews-refused-entry-at-newburgh-ny-bowling-alley.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 08, 2020, 10:56:54 AM
So far no enforcement
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 11:09:28 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1907891/thanks-cuomo-hasidic-jews-refused-entry-at-newburgh-ny-bowling-alley.html
Give credit for the joint effort where it is due.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 11:11:04 AM
it does have an eerie similarity to times in our history when it was.
No, it really doesn't.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 08, 2020, 11:13:21 AM
https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/08020040/AUD-20201007-WA0118.m4a

Is that a misquote (paraphrasing) of the הקדמה of חובות הלבבות at 1:09 or is that a quote from somewhere?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: chief_mag on October 08, 2020, 11:21:53 AM

Who's idea was it to have all the demographics color coded the same on this?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 11:57:04 AM
For those that would like to compare data of the various zip codes in NYC, it's available here.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-recent.page

and here

https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/recent/recent-4-week-by-modzcta.csv
Sure seems like the virus is anti-Semitic
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 12:31:48 PM
Have total tests gone up? And you are saying they doubled. Still, even with the requests not to test etc. I find it very hard to believe that the numbers from a couple of months ago till now have only doubled.

Where did you get your numbers from?
@whacked1

Looks like you were mistaken, as I guessed

Quote
Percentage wise, around the same. IINM they have been fluctuating in the 1.5-2.5 range.

For those that would like to compare data of the various zip codes in NYC, it's available here.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-recent.page

and here

https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/recent/recent-4-week-by-modzcta.csv
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 08, 2020, 01:33:14 PM
So far no enforcement
Any word on who would actually enforce it? NYPD doesn't want to.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 08, 2020, 01:36:10 PM
Any word on who would actually enforce it? NYPD doesn't want to.
Most likely doh & no-name inspectors from the mayorís office.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 08, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
Any word on who would actually enforce it? NYPD doesn't want to.
State troopers
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 08, 2020, 01:40:55 PM
State troopers
During the first wave they begged to not have to do enforcement in the city anymore.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Please explain to me why middle seats are ok to be filled on planes (12+ hr flights, no less!) but schools, shuls and businesses need to close. Same goes for why Corona Queens gets to remain open even though their #s per 100k are much higher???
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 01:53:27 PM
Please explain to me why middle seats are ok to be filled on planes (12+ hr flights, no less!) but schools, shuls and businesses need to close. Same goes for why Corona Queens gets to remain open even though their #s per 100k are much higher???

When you get mask compliance in shuls to be as good as they are on planes, you can start to compare. Shuls were open. We messed that up.

And what are the numbers in Corona, Queens?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 08, 2020, 01:55:01 PM
Corona Queens gets to remain open even though their #s per 100k are much higher???
Source
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 08, 2020, 01:55:41 PM
When you get mask compliance in shuls to be as good as they are on planes, you can start to compare. Shuls were open. We messed that up.

And what are the numbers in Corona, Queens?

By us in shul we wear masks accept when eating of course, kiddush etc,......
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 01:59:56 PM
By us in shul we wear masks accept when eating of course, kiddush etc,......

And can you acknowledge that your shul has been the exception, not the rule? How many shuls had major spreading over RH?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shapsam on October 08, 2020, 02:00:30 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 08, 2020, 02:11:02 PM
Please explain to me why middle seats are ok to be filled on planes (12+ hr flights, no less!) but schools, shuls and businesses need to close. Same goes for why Corona Queens gets to remain open even though their #s per 100k are much higher???

Because of the air filtration in planes, spread is far less. The only spread is directly from person to person in close proximity. When both are wearing masks, the spread on planes gets to virtually 0.

Shuls, otoh, do not have that level of filtration and the droplets can be spread to people even not within 6 feet. Add to that the sporadic, at best, mask wearing in most Brooklyn Shuls and they are super spreading disaster zones.

Schools is a whole nother story.

The data you're looking at for Corona is likely overall since the start of the outbreak in March. What are the current numbers?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:12:12 PM
People who arrive in NY on a plane are indeed required to quarantine for 14 days.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 08, 2020, 02:13:22 PM

Anyone here think they will win?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:16:13 PM

Anyone here think they will win?
No doubt people think so. I certainly don't. Only attracting more and more attention and criticism of Jews. They should redirect their efforts to stopping the spread of illness in our community.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:16:29 PM

And what are the numbers in Corona, Queens?
[/quote
Boro Park, Bklyn: (60% Orhodox Jews) 3,869 per 100k
Queens (71% Hispanic) 4,661 per 100k
East Elmhurst (65% Hispanic) 4,889 per 100k
I can go on and on. Check it out yourself... Continue on to East Harlem....
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 08, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
People who arrive in NY on a plane are indeed required to quarantine for 14 days.
Thatís quite a generalization
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Euclid on October 08, 2020, 02:17:41 PM

Anyone here think they will win?
Perhaps they'll win this battle. But add it to the list of things that'll cause the war to be lost.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 02:20:59 PM
People who arrive in NY on a plane are indeed required to quarantine for 14 days.
There is no quarantine requirement for flying.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:21:56 PM
Because of the air filtration in planes, spread is far less. The only spread is directly from person to person in close proximity. When both are wearing masks, the spread on planes gets to virtually 0.

Shuls, otoh, do not have that level of filtration and the droplets can be spread to people even not within 6 feet. Add to that the sporadic, at best, mask wearing in most Brooklyn Shuls and they are super spreading disaster zones.

Schools is a whole nother story.

The data you're looking at for Corona is likely overall since the start of the outbreak in March. What are the current numbers?
Cuomo the meatball has never announced enforcement by state troopers on airplanes. I have been on twice since Covid - once, masks we're strictly enforced by crew members- even little kids. The other time -(a few days apart) no enforcement, many were wearing it on their chin, or only over mouth. So you're argument isn't that good...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:22:56 PM
There is no quarantine requirement for flying.
People who come into NY from anywhere with moderate risk of contacting Covid are indeed required to quarantine, including if they fly.
NY doesn't care about people leaving NY.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:23:49 PM
Cuomo the meatball has never announced enforcement by state troopers on airplanes. I have been on twice since Covid - once, masks we're strictly enforced by crew members- even little kids. The other time -(a few days apart) no enforcement, many were wearing it on their chin, or only over mouth. So you're argument isn't that good...
Because frum areas are a proven issue. Planes have yet to proven as a significant issue.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 02:24:44 PM
Because of the air filtration in planes, spread is far less. The only spread is directly from person to person in close proximity. When both are wearing masks, the spread on planes gets to virtually 0.

Shuls, otoh, do not have that level of filtration and the droplets can be spread to people even not within 6 feet. Add to that the sporadic, at best, mask wearing in most Brooklyn Shuls and they are super spreading disaster zones.

Schools is a whole nother story.

The data you're looking at for Corona is likely overall since the start of the outbreak in March. What are the current numbers?
Maybe they should mandate better air filtration in shuls and inspect the HVAC systems. That's more likely to happen and more likely to stop spread.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Because frum areas are a proven issue. Planes have yet to proven as a significant issue.
Unfortunately one finds the proof wherever they want to these days :(
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
Cuomo the meatball has never announced enforcement by state troopers on airplanes. I have been on twice since Covid - once, masks we're strictly enforced by crew members- even little kids. The other time -(a few days apart) no enforcement, many were wearing it on their chin, or only over mouth. So you're argument isn't that good...

Since when does Cuomo have any jurisdiction on any airplane?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:27:13 PM
Because frum areas are a proven issue.
Please don't be the frumest AS. We've got more than enough
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:27:31 PM
Boro Park, Bklyn: (60% Orhodox Jews) 3,869 per 100k
Queens (71% Hispanic) 4,661 per 100k
East Elmhurst (65% Hispanic) 4,889 per 100k
I can go on and on. Check it out yourself... Continue on to East Harlem....

This is over what period of time?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:28:36 PM
Maybe they should mandate better air filtration in shuls and inspect the HVAC systems. That's more likely to happen and more likely to stop spread.

Would you like them mandating and monitoring mask usage in shuls, too? That didn't go over well in April.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:29:04 PM
Since when does Cuomo have any jurisdiction on any airplane?
King Cuomo doesn't seem to think he needs that
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:32:04 PM
King Cuomo doesn't seem to think he needs that

Aha, so we're bringing rational arguments. Got it.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:32:37 PM
Maybe they should mandate better air filtration in shuls and inspect the HVAC systems. That's more likely to happen and more likely to stop spread.
I never sit as close to someone in shul as I do on an airplane. Mask or no mask. Air filtration system or not.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
Aha, so we're bringing rational arguments. Got it.
Rational and Cuomo can't really be put nicely in one sentence (unless u copy and paste the above sentence ;)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 08, 2020, 02:35:43 PM
Boro Park, Bklyn: (60% Orhodox Jews) 3,869 per 100k
Queens (71% Hispanic) 4,661 per 100k
East Elmhurst (65% Hispanic) 4,889 per 100k
I can go on and on. Check it out yourself... Continue on to East Harlem....

Fake news?

Those numbers are for a single day. Quite meaningless when the metrics theyíve repeatedly stated they are using is 7/14 day positivity rates. Itís kinda interesting to see the deceptive stats people are sharing so we can pretend that Jews arenít consistently from the hardest hit areas. Another cute one I saw yesterday showed a map of case rates by zip code, showing other areas with high case rates. What they didnít mention is case rates is a historical cumulative number dating back to March and continuously until today. Somehow the cases in March are relevant to an outbreak in October.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:36:06 PM
I never sit as close to someone in shul as I do on an airplane. Mask or no mask. Air filtration system or not.

I never drive as close to someone as when I'm parked. But so if I'm parked without a seatbelt, it must be safe to drive without one.

You're knocking em outta the park today.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 08, 2020, 02:37:30 PM
Perhaps they'll win this battle. But add it to the list of things that'll cause the war to be lost.
If it shows that the Jewish areas were targeted for stricter laws more than Broome County which is a 6.1% positive for no other reason than "Jews" then that will prove that these laws are anti-Semitic (which I believe they are).
I agree the old rules should be enforced, and aren't anti-Semitic but these new rules seem to be punishing "the Jews" (even the ones who listened to the old ones)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:38:14 PM
Please don't be the frumest AS. We've got more than enough
What?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Maybe they should mandate better air filtration in shuls and inspect the HVAC systems. That's more likely to happen and more likely to stop spread.

What would be the cost of proper filtration/ventilation for every shul and how long would it take to get it installed? What happens until then? What happens for non-compliance?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:39:04 PM
Rational and Cuomo can't really be put nicely in one sentence (unless u copy and paste the above sentence ;)

He may not be rational, but that doesn't change the reality of the world we live in. He can't put troopers on a plane. He can mandate shuls and businesses be closed in the name of public safety. You can sue him.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:39:33 PM
Maybe they should mandate better air filtration in shuls and inspect the HVAC systems. That's more likely to happen and more likely to stop spread.
I agree. Germany is starting that in schools. If only governments were more competent. HEPA filters and fans are dirt cheap
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:43:03 PM
He may not be rational, but that doesn't change the reality of the world we live in. He can't put troopers on a plane. He can mandate shuls and businesses be closed in the name of public safety. You can sue him.
I am actually part of a (quite large and varied) group doing exactly that. Not a simple task but our only option ...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:44:04 PM
I am actually part of a (quite large and varied) group doing exactly that. Not a simple task but our only option ...

Good for you. I hope your lawyer makes better arguments than you do.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 02:44:16 PM
I am actually part of a (quite large and varied) group doing exactly that. Not a simple task but our only option ...
I recommend against using cherry picked stats to make your case. THat is a sure-fire wy to lose.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:45:24 PM
I never drive as close to someone as when I'm parked. But so if I'm parked without a seatbelt, it must be safe to drive without one.

You're knocking em outta the park today.
U seem to have missed the point
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
Good for you. I hope your lawyer makes better arguments than you do.
You're welcome
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:46:35 PM
I am actually part of a (quite large and varied) group doing exactly that. Not a simple task but our only option ...
Get ready to call the (Republican appointed) judges meatballs too.

Good for you. I hope your lawyer makes better arguments than you do.
Good one.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 02:47:29 PM
Would you like them mandating and monitoring mask usage in shuls, too? That didn't go over well in April.
Why didn't they do this instead? It's probably more effective and it won't cause bad blood.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Ergel on October 08, 2020, 02:47:42 PM
https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/Broome-County-NY-COVID-19-Data/jq72-3jpd/data
Seems like Broome county is at 4% over the last 2 weeks. Should be red
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:48:40 PM
I recommend against using cherry picked stats to make your case. THat is a sure-fire wy to lose.
I will leave that to the law firm to decide. It's a much larger issue than you and I can even imagine. (I was at a meeting last night until 2 am, although some members here make me wonder why I am bothering to do so, nevermind for their benefit)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:50:34 PM
I will leave that to the law firm to decide. It's a much larger issue than you and I can even imagine. (I was at a meeting last night until 2 am, although some members here make me wonder why I am bothering to do so, nevermind for their benefit)
I wish you would spend your efforts trying to prevent the spread instead.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:50:41 PM
Why didn't they do this instead? It's probably more effective and it won't cause bad blood.

They did. It didn't work. That's why we're here.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 02:51:31 PM
What would be the cost of proper filtration/ventilation for every shul and how long would it take to get it installed? What happens until then? What happens for non-compliance?

I agree. Germany is starting that in schools. If only governments were more competent. HEPA filters and fans are dirt cheap
It shouldn't take long at all to get it installed. Maybe they should give out HEPA filters instead of masks.

For non-compliance, maybe it should be like building code. If they were trying to work with the frum community instead of against them you would see a lot more compliance.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 02:53:17 PM
I will leave that to the law firm to decide. It's a much larger issue than you and I can even imagine. (I was at a meeting last night until 2 am, although some members here make me wonder why I am bothering to do so, nevermind for their benefit)
I fully believe that it is a true issue. Lets be clear that the issue lies squarely on te soulders of those who brought the government eyes poking around with their stupidity. What happens when the case is lost because of those who just gave too much ammunition to Coumo and his ilk? Does that help or hurt matters over the long term? When you want to fix an issue you need to avoid giving them a good argument that tey are right.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ltttc on October 08, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
I wish you would spend your efforts trying to prevent the spread instead.
For the record, I do my part and always wear a mask.
I just wish some would spend their efforts trying to prevent the spread sinas chinam
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 08, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
For the record, I do my part and always wear a mask.
Great.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 02:56:26 PM
They did. It didn't work. That's why we're here.
When? What didn't work? I haven't heard of anyone inspecting HVAC systems. Never mind the fact that they never tried working WITH the frum community.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 02:59:18 PM
When? What didn't work? I haven't heard of anyone inspecting HVAC systems. Never mind the fact that they never tried working WITH the frum community.

You're confusing your arguments  :)  You and I are talking about mandated mask usage, not HVAC.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 03:02:28 PM
You're confusing my arguments  :) I am talking about mandated mask usage, not HVAC.
FTFY
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 08, 2020, 03:05:43 PM
He may not be rational, but that doesn't change the reality of the world we live in. He can't put troopers on a plane. He can mandate shuls and businesses be closed in the name of public safety. You can sue him.
If he can decide against freedom of religion based on his opinion,  why can't he do the same to airplanes? Make an executive order and thats it.   
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 03:10:20 PM
If he can decide against freedom of religion based on his opinion,  why can't he do the same to airplanes? Make an executive order and thats it.

He can make an EO in his state. You can argue the constitutionality of the contents of that EO through the legal system. He Cannot put troopers on a plane. It's just a bad argument. There are so many better ones to be made.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 03:16:20 PM
FTFY

You're right. I misunderstood when you wrote "this" to mean masks, not HVAC.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 03:22:43 PM
If he can decide against freedom of religion based on his opinion,  why can't he do the same to airplanes? Make an executive order and thats it.   
He has no legal authority on interstate travel.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 08, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
He has no legal authority on interstate travel.
You're right.  My point was really that it seems like a free for all for government officials and they aren't following basic rules or the constitution.   I did not articulate it correctly earlier with an example that doesn't make sense ;)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shapsam on October 08, 2020, 05:13:22 PM
If you thought for a second there'll be enforcement in NYC. LOL.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Ergel on October 08, 2020, 05:27:03 PM
If you thought for a second there'll be enforcement in NYC. LOL.
LOL
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 05:49:45 PM
Invalid Tweet ID

REPOST!!

(Sorry, been wanting to do that to you for a while now...)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shapsam on October 08, 2020, 06:03:55 PM
His tweet was deleted. Fakenews?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 06:08:12 PM
His tweet was deleted. Fakenews?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 08, 2020, 06:27:56 PM
If you thought for a second there'll be enforcement in NYC. LOL.
And theyíre the ones walking the streets today. Do as I say not as I do.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 08, 2020, 06:36:05 PM
And theyíre the ones walking the streets today. Do as I say not as I do.
their the ones who didnt do any enforcment today 
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 08, 2020, 06:41:11 PM
anyone know which judge will be by the hearing?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 08, 2020, 06:49:04 PM
anyone know which judge will be by the hearing?

Kiyo A. Matsumoto
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 08, 2020, 06:49:51 PM
Kiyo A. Matsumoto
Bush appointee
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 08, 2020, 07:10:28 PM
If you thought for a second there'll be enforcement in NYC. LOL.

Such a joke, theyíre all sitting in close proximity with not a mask in sight.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SayWhat on October 08, 2020, 07:36:18 PM
Maybe they should mandate better air filtration in shuls and inspect the HVAC systems. That's more likely to happen and more likely to stop spread.
Vote for Biden/Harris and they will pass the Green New Deal and all buildings will have to be retrofitted with new HVAC.  ::) 
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 08:12:59 PM
When? What didn't work? I haven't heard of anyone inspecting HVAC systems. Never mind the fact that they never tried working WITH the frum community.
This is simply untrue. Weíve heard repeatedly for months here how the State and City were working locally with the Yidden to allow them to do what they need to do. We managed to run schools and shuls unmasked and no SD with nary a word from authorities. However, we didnít keep our end of the deal- donít let the spread get out of hand.

Why in the world should they trust us now, when weíve failed so utterly and openly?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
This is simply untrue. Weíve heard repeatedly for months here how the State and City were working locally with the Yidden to allow them to do what they need to do. We managed to run schools and shuls unmasked and no SD with nary a word from authorities. However, we didnít keep our end of the deal- donít let the spread get out of hand.

Why in the world should they trust us now, when weíve failed so utterly and openly?
What of that is working together? Sounds more like ignoring.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 08:19:53 PM
What of that is working together? Sounds more like ignoring.
I seem to remember quite a few posters here lecturing us that itís not illegal because they know whatís going on and arenít doing anything to stop it, because they okíd it behind closed doors as long as we contain the spread, but if we canít control it, all bets are off.

If you mean what we did in response, correct.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 08, 2020, 08:21:31 PM
I seem to remember quite a few posters here lecturing us that itís not illegal because they know whatís going on and arenít doing anything to stop it, because they okíd it behind closed doors as long as we contain the spread, but if we canít control it, all bets are off.

If you mean what we did in response, correct.
Do you really think they're that stupid?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 08, 2020, 08:26:02 PM

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 08:27:21 PM
Here are some quotes from a thread thatís now locked

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=116189.msg2256804#msg2256804

Quote
Now you got it! It was listed as some type of daycare, which is legal. It's called a loophole, probably by the advice of their local officials.

Many places that are open are using different loopholes by the advice of local officials.

The Governor has given a lot of power to local officials to translate and enforce the laws as they see fit. For example, in many areas they are allowing Kolelim to open. No davening, no shiurim, and no meals. So it's not a gathering. Just a bunch of groups of two.

Yes, this is a fact. Albany is allowing kolelim if local officials are ok with it.

Quote
There are shuls and Yeshivos legally open in NJ. There are shuls and Yeshivas legally open in Monsey, Boro Park, Williamsburg, and all over the place. The Five Towns was the first to close, and will be the last to open. That is nothing to be proud of. And it's not our leadership to blame. It is us. If we would be begging our leadership and showing we sincerely want to be invited back to our mekomos haKedoshim, they would push more and advocate harder for us. In matter of fact, there are a few places here who will legally open any day now. They will be getting special permission because they are pushing harder. I know a Rov who is busy all day with connections in Albany trying to get his place open.
Quote
There is legal as in Gov Murphy signing an executive order that bicycle shops can open and there is legal as in getting govt and law enforcement to agree to tolerate something but the minute there is pushback it's over (see chasunos in Lakewood after pesach)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 08:29:10 PM
I seem to remember quite a few posters here lecturing us that itís not illegal because they know whatís going on and arenít doing anything to stop it, because they okíd it behind closed doors as long as we contain the spread, but if we canít control it, all bets are off.

If you mean what we did in response, correct.
What about turning a blind eye is working together?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 08:31:00 PM
What about turning a blind eye is working together?

Come on... what about it isn't?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 08:31:09 PM
What about turning a blind eye is working together?
What would you consider working with the frum community? Does letting them do whatever they want as long as they keep a handle on COVID not qualify?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 08:34:18 PM
What would you consider working with the frum community? Does letting them do whatever they want as long as they keep a handle on COVID not qualify?
No that does not qualify at all. Working together means trying to discuss things with them and find a workable solution for everyone. Did they make any attempt at figuring out something which would work and have the community on their side? Not that I saw. THAT would be leadership, not giving up.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 08:36:11 PM
No that does not qualify at all. Working together means trying to discuss things with them and find a workable solution for everyone. Did they make any attempt at figuring out something which would work and have the community on their side? Not that I saw. THAT would be leadership, not giving up.

No one said anything about good leadership. That doesn't mean turning a bind eye isn't working with them.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 08:40:27 PM
No one said anything about good leadership. That doesn't mean turning a bind eye isn't working with them.
How is ignoring called working with them?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 08, 2020, 08:41:36 PM
No that does not qualify at all. Working together means trying to discuss things with them and find a workable solution for everyone. Did they make any attempt at figuring out something which would work and have the community on their side? Not that I saw. THAT would be leadership, not giving up.
Just because they are dumb and inefficient doesnít mean they went into this trying to be overly harsh to Jews. They werenít interested in this happening either. Itís a bit late to complain about it now when it was biyadeinu to do so earlier.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 08, 2020, 08:44:23 PM
How is ignoring called working with them?

You're involved in enough askonus to know how things work.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2020, 08:48:23 PM
You're involved in enough askonus to know how things work.

Yes and I know that working together means exactly that. It is like someone who argues with a teenager about taking the car until they give up and let the kid take the car whenever they want until they get into an accident. That wasn't working together at all. Working together would mean discussing appropriate limits to adhere to the entire time.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 08, 2020, 10:04:25 PM
Rockland County Is COVID Hotspot; Shuls To Have 10 People

New restrictions are coming in Rockland County where COVID-19 infection rates have risen exponentially. That rate is now 4.5%.

ďItís critically important that we get this under control. The numbers are starting to grow exponentially. We donít need that right now,Ē Rockland Co. Executive Ed Day said. ďWeíve made great progress and great strides here.Ē

Day announced that the Governorís Cluster restrictions will take effect at 12:01 AM, Friday, October 9, 2020.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 09, 2020, 12:02:33 AM
Just wondering: how many of these positive tests are symptomatic?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 09, 2020, 12:07:00 AM
Just wondering: how many of these positive tests are symptomatic?

Wondering if the testing drives are counterproductive?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 09, 2020, 12:20:38 AM

Yes and I know that working together means exactly that. It is like someone who argues with a teenager about taking the car until they give up and let the kid take the car whenever they want until they get into an accident. That wasn't working together at all. Working together would mean discussing appropriate limits to adhere to the entire time.

From what I've seen the last few months, the government was not turning a blind eye. They have publicly highlighted their concerns with the Jewish community without calling us out directly or accusing us of the egregious actions they were very aware of. They also met askonim many times privately to discuss exactly what would happen if things go sour. The noticeably muted warnings were an opportunity for the Jewish leaders to step up before things got worse but of course we botched it up big time.

The same exact story has been playing out in Lakewood yet it will somehow be a surprise when NJ is forced to close our schools.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 09, 2020, 12:29:07 AM


From what I've seen the last few months, the government was not turning a blind eye. They have publicly highlighted their concerns with the Jewish community without calling us out directly or accusing us of the egregious actions they were very aware of. They also met askonim many times privately to discuss exactly what would happen if things go sour. The noticeably muted warnings were an opportunity for the Jewish leaders to step up before things got worse but of course we botched it up big time.

The same exact story has been playing out in Lakewood yet it will somehow be a surprise when NJ is forced to close our schools.

Concerns, warnings, what would happen, etc. Are not working together. Sounds like some need a parenting lesson.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 09, 2020, 12:33:36 AM

Concerns, warnings, what would happen, etc. Are not working together. Sounds like some need a parenting lesson.

What do you consider "working together"? They didn't just warn, they in fact turned the warnings into action.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 09, 2020, 12:35:57 AM


What do you consider "working together"? They didn't just warn, they in fact turned the warnings into action.



No that does not qualify at all. Working together means trying to discuss things with them and find a workable solution for everyone. Did they make any attempt at figuring out something which would work and have the community on their side? Not that I saw. THAT would be leadership, not giving up.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 09, 2020, 01:05:53 AM
No that does not qualify at all. Working together means trying to discuss things with them and find a workable solution for everyone. Did they make any attempt at figuring out something which would work and have the community on their side? Not that I saw. THAT would be leadership, not giving up.

I guess I saw differently. You think in their numerous meeting with askonim they never discussed guidelines for shuls/schools/weddings that would help prevent COVID from spreading? What more could they possibly have done to get the community on their side except for looking the other way? Anecdotally speaking, almost everyone I know wanted no restrictions at all. Anything more than nothing and you lost the crowd.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 09, 2020, 06:51:53 AM
I guess I saw differently. You think in their numerous meeting with askonim they never discussed guidelines for shuls/schools/weddings that would help prevent COVID from spreading? What more could they possibly have done to get the community on their side except for looking the other way? Anecdotally speaking, almost everyone I know wanted no restrictions at all. Anything more than nothing and you lost the crowd.
That's what happens with unrealistic demands, they shut down reasonable discussion. Demanding nearly full lockdown when there are no cases is not working together.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 09, 2020, 07:10:07 AM
That's what happens with unrealistic demands, they shut down reasonable discussion. Demanding nearly full lockdown when there are no cases is not working together.

Coming from a guy who found wearing a mask an unrealistic ask? Come on...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 09, 2020, 07:13:25 AM
Coming from a guy who found wearing a mask an unrealistic ask? Come on...
I guess they're better off throwing in the towel.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 09, 2020, 07:27:24 AM
I guess they're better off throwing in the towel.

Your argument is just false. They haven't asked for a "near lockdown" for months. Not of Jews nor of anyone else. But I'll bite...

In your opinion, what would have been a reasonable and realistic ask?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shapsam on October 09, 2020, 09:35:20 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 09, 2020, 10:06:50 AM

Good lord. Where is that Cuomo quote from?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 09, 2020, 10:37:55 AM

Unpopular opinion alert:

For better or for worse, when one wears a uniform, they lose their status as individuals. They are now representing something larger than themselves. Their actions bring both pride and shame to the larger group. It is therefore incumbent on the group to make sure that those representing them are doing so correctly.

Now, we are all human. We understand that there can be rogue actors who bring undue shame to the uniforms they represent. We expect them and their bad actions to be called out. It is the reason we back the police and the military, even though not everyone acts in the manner the uniform demands. They have internal policing measures to ensure the standards are kept. When there is a cover-up, or when it seems a blind eye is turned, we are rightfully outraged.

From the time we went down to Mitzrayim, there have been three things which have set us apart. We pride ourselves on our dress, our language, and our names. We wear them as a badge of honor. A uniform, of sorts. Something that tell us, tells the world, WE ARE DIFFERENT. What we do while in uniform reflects on everyone else who rides under that flag. How we react to the misbehavior of others wearing that uniform is closely watched, and we are judged accordingly.

From the start of this pandemic, right through the summer and up until today, there has been rampant misbehavior in the frum communities of NY. Not only has it rarely been called out by our leaders, it has actually been endorsed by many. Have there been pockets of exceptions? Sure. Some neighborhoods and groups have done better than others. During some periods of time, compliance was better than others. But by and large, those who fall under the umbrella of "ultra-Orthodox" in NYC have not kept to the restrictions placed upon them by the government.

This argument isn't about whether the restrictions are justified. This is specifically addressing the complaint of anti-Semitism by Cuomo. You don't need to like the law, and you can choose to follow it or not, but that doesn't change the fact that his accusation is accurate. This also isn't an argument about whether other people also misbehaved. It's irrelevant. They don't wear a uniform. They represent no one but themselves.

It hurts to be called out. It hurts even more when the person calling up out is a scumbag with no right to the moral high ground. It's scary when we think being called out in a certain way will lead to more anti-Semitism in a city already overflowing with it. None of that makes him wrong.

Side rant: if you're a political activist who sells the community's votes to politicians as a block, don't complain when those same politicians treat you like a block.

@Yehuda57 you can tear me apart now.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 09, 2020, 01:33:51 PM
Unpopular opinion alert:

For better or for worse, when one wears a uniform, they lose their status as individuals. They are now representing something larger than themselves. Their actions bring both pride and shame to the larger group. It is therefore incumbent on the group to make sure that those representing them are doing so correctly.

Now, we are all human. We understand that there can be rogue actors who bring undue shame to the uniforms they represent. We expect them and their bad actions to be called out. It is the reason we back the police and the military, even though not everyone acts in the manner the uniform demands. They have internal policing measures to ensure the standards are kept. When there is a cover-up, or when it seems a blind eye is turned, we are rightfully outraged.

From the time we went down to Mitzrayim, there have been three things which have set us apart. We pride ourselves on our dress, our language, and our names. We wear them as a badge of honor. A uniform, of sorts. Something that tell us, tells the world, WE ARE DIFFERENT. What we do while in uniform reflects on everyone else who rides under that flag. How we react to the misbehavior of others wearing that uniform is closely watched, and we are judged accordingly.

From the start of this pandemic, right through the summer and up until today, there has been rampant misbehavior in the frum communities of NY. Not only has it rarely been called out by our leaders, it has actually been endorsed by many. Have there been pockets of exceptions? Sure. Some neighborhoods and groups have done better than others. During some periods of time, compliance was better than others. But by and large, those who fall under the umbrella of "ultra-Orthodox" in NYC have not kept to the restrictions placed upon them by the government.

This argument isn't about whether the restrictions are justified. This is specifically addressing the complaint of anti-Semitism by Cuomo. You don't need to like the law, and you can choose to follow it or not, but that doesn't change the fact that his accusation is accurate. This also isn't an argument about whether other people also misbehaved. It's irrelevant. They don't wear a uniform. They represent no one but themselves.

It hurts to be called out. It hurts even more when the person calling up out is a scumbag with no right to the moral high ground. It's scary when we think being called out in a certain way will lead to more anti-Semitism in a city already overflowing with it. None of that makes him wrong.

Side rant: if you're a political activist who sells the community's votes to politicians as a block, don't complain when those same politicians treat you like a block.

@Yehuda57 you can tear me apart now.

I like your post because I like how you do eloquently presented your thoughts.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 09, 2020, 01:36:54 PM

@Yehuda57 you can tear me apart now.

Don't have the time or patience today, but I had you in zinen when I was shlogging
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 09, 2020, 01:58:26 PM
Don't have the time or patience today, but I had you in zinen when I was shlogging

I'm honored to have made the cut.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 09, 2020, 03:00:30 PM
Don't have the time or patience today, but I had you in zinen when I was shlogging
Actual footage
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WRyELq_msGw
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 09, 2020, 04:05:42 PM
Judge denies TRO
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Hjay on October 09, 2020, 04:10:30 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 09, 2020, 04:11:50 PM
Werdiger put out video that agudah will continue the fight after YT  not sure how to upload video
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 09, 2020, 04:20:23 PM
Werdiger put out video that agudah will continue the fight after YT  not sure how to upload video

Getting denied the TRO is really bad because now it will take a while for anything to possibly get overturned.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 09, 2020, 04:48:45 PM
Getting denied the TRO is really bad because now it will take a while for anything to possibly get overturned.
Can it be appealed?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 09, 2020, 04:49:25 PM
Can it be appealed?

Not in time for tonight...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 09, 2020, 04:56:30 PM
Catholics were also suing they had a hearing at 4 today.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 09, 2020, 04:58:42 PM
Catholics were also suing they had a hearing at 4 today.

And?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Joel on October 09, 2020, 05:13:17 PM
And?
You can listen 8888086929 #5647824

Judge is more sympathetic
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on October 09, 2020, 05:16:16 PM
Was anyone able to listen to the Agudah hearing? What was the state's argument why they aren't infringing on 1st amendment rights, and what was the judge's reason for denying the TRO?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 09, 2020, 05:21:23 PM
Can it be appealed?

The idea of a TRO is to suspend a ruling/enforcement without having to wait for the verdict of a court case. I don't think you can appeal it (eta: you canít), either you satisfy the requirements for a TRO or you don't. In order to do so you have to prove:

Quote
Substantial likelihood of success on the merits: First, the plaintiff usually
must demonstrate there is a substantial likelihood that, when the court later
hears the case in full to decide whether to grant a declaratory judgment, the
plaintiff will prevail on the merits of the legal issues in the case.

Irreparable harm or injury: Second, the plaintiff typically must show that if
the law is not put on hold while the case is pending, the plaintiff will suffer
irreparable harm. Courts generally hold that a showing of ďirreparable harmĒ
requires more than lost business profits, and that the harm needs to be
imminent and not merely speculative.

Balance of harms: Third, the plaintiff often needs to show that, when the
court compares the alleged harms the plaintiff will suffer due to
implementation or enforcement of the law with the harms that would result
due to delayed implementation or enforcement of the law, the potential harm
to the plaintiff outweighs the public health benefits.

Public interest: Lastly, the plaintiff often needs to demonstrate that granting
the injunction is in the publicís interest.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 09, 2020, 05:25:45 PM
You can listen 8888086929 #5647824

Judge is more sympathetic

Why? What are they arguing that made the judge more sympathetic?

Sorry, I have no time to listen. Not sure its even still going on.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 09, 2020, 05:31:22 PM
Why? What are they arguing that made the judge more sympathetic?

Sorry, I have no time to listen. Not sure its even still going on.
It all depends on how the judge views the facts
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 09, 2020, 05:42:49 PM
You can listen 8888086929 #5647824

Judge is more sympathetic
Case has been heard. Judge will decide sometime between and hour from now and tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 09, 2020, 05:49:21 PM
Case has been heard. Judge will decide sometime between and hour from now and tomorrow morning.
Do you have the case number and the district?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 09, 2020, 05:58:48 PM
Do you have the case number and the district?
Case # 20 CV 4844

Easter District or NY
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on October 11, 2020, 08:59:22 PM
Seems like they didn't fare any better than l'havdil Agudah:

https://thetablet.org/court-denies-brooklyn-dioceses-request-for-temporary-restraining-order-over-cuomos-new-covid-19-mandate-bishop-says-fight-isnt-over/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 12, 2020, 06:29:49 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: dovy2 on October 12, 2020, 08:13:48 PM
does anyone know if the posted rates go by test-date or by reslut-dates?
if it goes by test-date, then we have a clear indicater that the Jews are not at fault, because on 10/10 the brooklyn red-zones had 7.2% positivity rat, and that can't be from us who were not getting tested.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 12, 2020, 08:18:34 PM
does anyone know if the posted rates go by test-date or by reslut-dates?
if it goes by test-date, then we have a clear indicater that the Jews are not at fault, because on 10/10 the brooklyn red-zones had 7.2% positivity rat, and that can't be from us who were not getting tested.

Neither. It goes by when they get reported to the state by the labs or testing location.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: dovy2 on October 12, 2020, 08:26:50 PM
So we'll wait a few days and see.. if there is no significant drop, I think our case is solid.. two full days of zero testing should show up on their data
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 12, 2020, 08:47:16 PM
does anyone know if the posted rates go by test-date or by reslut-dates?
if it goes by test-date, then we have a clear indicater that the Jews are not at fault, because on 10/10 the brooklyn red-zones had 7.2% positivity rat, and that can't be from us who were not getting tested.
except for those of us getting tested after being hospitalized r"l
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: junion on October 12, 2020, 08:49:09 PM
anyone hear of any schools/shuls having any inspectors around today?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on October 12, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
I don't have details, but I heard there were many inspections in BP (which apparently reopened claiming to be day care, which is considered an essential service), and some in Flatbush as well. I didn't hear of any problems or sanctions, but don't know more than that.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Flatbush on October 12, 2020, 11:52:23 PM
does anyone know if the posted rates go by test-date or by reslut-dates?
if it goes by test-date, then we have a clear indicater that the Jews are not at fault, because on 10/10 the brooklyn red-zones had 7.2% positivity rat, and that can't be from us who were not getting tested.
Where can you find the daily positive rates by zip code?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 13, 2020, 01:50:23 AM
So we'll wait a few days and see.. if there is no significant drop, I think our case is solid.. two full days of zero testing should show up on their data

How would zero testing make the positivity rate look better? It only help if you look at that day but if you had 100 positives out of 1000 tests, even if you add a day of zeroes youíre still at the same rate (minus 15 days ago that drops off). If 15 days ago was a lower positivity rate than the average, having no testing actually hurts the rate.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: dovy2 on October 13, 2020, 07:20:05 AM
Hilarious
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/no-cause-found-for-higher-wny-covid-19-rate-as-state-sends-rapid-tests-here/article_182961be-0be2-11eb-8e86-b7557215d35c.html (https://buffalonews.com/news/local/no-cause-found-for-higher-wny-covid-19-rate-as-state-sends-rapid-tests-here/article_182961be-0be2-11eb-8e86-b7557215d35c.html)

Quote:
But unlike the zones identified as part of the state's Cluster Action Initiative Ė in Brooklyn, Queens, Orange County and Rockland County Ė Cuomo said officials don't know what's causing the increase in this region.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: ExGingi on October 13, 2020, 07:33:17 AM
Hilarious
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/no-cause-found-for-higher-wny-covid-19-rate-as-state-sends-rapid-tests-here/article_182961be-0be2-11eb-8e86-b7557215d35c.html (https://buffalonews.com/news/local/no-cause-found-for-higher-wny-covid-19-rate-as-state-sends-rapid-tests-here/article_182961be-0be2-11eb-8e86-b7557215d35c.html)

Quote:
But unlike the zones identified as part of the state's Cluster Action Initiative Ė in Brooklyn, Queens, Orange County and Rockland County Ė Cuomo said officials don't know what's causing the increase in this region.

Reminds me of the story about the entire town laughing at the town's fool acting silly, with the exception of one person. When asked why he isn't amused, the response was "unfortunately this fool is mine".
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Jerseysteve on October 13, 2020, 08:09:40 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/nyregion/cuomo-coronavirus-orthodox-shutdown.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Hjay on October 13, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Anybody know what happened with the testing drives, did they help, make it worse or nothing?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: shapsam on October 13, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: myi on October 13, 2020, 11:46:04 PM
Look what the mayor caused!
 Not surprised, who would want to work under him?
 https://nypost.com/2020/10/13/nypds-chief-of-patrol-fausto-pichardo-resigns/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 14, 2020, 12:23:04 AM

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 14, 2020, 12:26:16 AM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 12:29:03 AM


He's ignoring another important factor, also related to our lifestyle. As a community, we travel more than almost any other group. You cannot rule out the probability that this contributed to the virus being imported from other places.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dan on October 14, 2020, 12:29:09 AM

And yes, the lifestyle of Hookah bars and buffets without masks at the Simchas Torah banquet.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 14, 2020, 12:31:02 AM
This all started before S'T
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 14, 2020, 12:32:10 AM
More people got covid in our shul rh and yk then sukkus
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 12:33:57 AM
This all started before S'T
More people got covid in our shul rh and yk then sukkus

You're missing the point. The people who were ok doing those things on ST were ok doing reckless things the entire time.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yelped on October 14, 2020, 12:46:22 AM
You're missing the point. The people who were ok doing those things on ST were ok doing reckless things the entire time.
People who do these things are indeed reckless, regardless of Covid...

Those videos were deeply disturbing, and not because of Covid.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 12:50:36 AM
People who do these things are indeed reckless, regardless of Covid...

Those videos were deeply disturbing, and not because of Covid.

I was personally a bit disturbed, but living in a glass house, I'm not about to throw stones.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: incendia on October 14, 2020, 06:42:15 AM


1)People keep on saying that frum communities were hit hardest, but I've never seen proof.  Someone recently posted on DDF a cumulative case count map of NYC zipcodes and pointed out that The Bronx and Northern Queens had more cases than BP and Flatbush.
[ETA link for the post with the map https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=120203.msg2334999#msg2334999 ]

2) Facemask compliance is way up, people may be flouting the rules at shul but in other parts of life there is at least some compliance with the rules.

3) No part of Jewish lifestyle says you can't wear masks in shul or at the store

4) if you live a relatively dangerous lifestyle its incumbent upon you to take extra precautions
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 09:59:29 AM
He's ignoring another important factor, also related to our lifestyle. As a community, we travel more than almost any other group. You cannot rule out the probability that this contributed to the virus being imported from other places.
Even on flights to big Jewish destinations (NYC-MCO), you'd be hard pressed to find a flight that's mostly Jews. I think you're overestimating the amount of travel among orthodox Jews relative to the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it didn't contribute to spread, I'm questioning your assumption that it had a greater impact on Orthodox Jews
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 14, 2020, 10:22:01 AM
Even on flights to big Jewish destinations (NYC-MCO), you'd be hard pressed to find a flight that's mostly Jews. I think you're overestimating the amount of travel among orthodox Jews relative to the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it didn't contribute to spread, I'm questioning your assumption that it had a greater impact on Orthodox Jews

What percentage of the population are Jews?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
Even on flights to big Jewish destinations (NYC-MCO), you'd be hard pressed to find a flight that's mostly Jews. I think you're overestimating the amount of travel among orthodox Jews relative to the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it didn't contribute to spread, I'm questioning your assumption that it had a greater impact on Orthodox Jews

You're calculating things backwards. Don't look at all the flights in the world and calculate how many frum Jews are on them. Look at each community and calculate how many of them have traveled recently or travel regularly. It is grossly disproportionate. And that's without taking into consideration people who drive between communities.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 10:28:09 AM
What percentage of the population are Jews?
What percentage of flights out of NYC have any Orthodox Jews on them? I should clarify, unless it's the few highest travel days to MCO (erev yom tov, isru chag, etc.) orthodox jews make up a small minority of passengers, and this is probably the most traveled route.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 10:30:03 AM
You're calculating things backwards. Don't look at all the flights in the world and calculate how many frum Jews are on them. Look at each community and calculate how many of them have traveled recently or travel regularly. It is grossly disproportionate. And that's without taking into consideration people who drive between communities.
I have no way of knowing how many people in any community traveled recently. The best anecdotal evidence is based on how many people are flying and how that compares to the demographic in the NYC area.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 10:35:09 AM
I have no way of knowing how many people in any community traveled recently. The best anecdotal evidence is based on how many people are flying and how that compares to the demographic in the NYC area.

You have more knowledge of who travels or travelled in your community than you have of how many Jews are on every flight in and out of NY.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 10:37:56 AM
You have more knowledge of who travels or travelled in your community than you have of how many Jews are on every flight in and out of NY.
That may be true for the 150 families in my neighborhood, it's definitely not true for the hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 10:40:18 AM
That may be true for the 150 families in my neighborhood, it's definitely not true for the hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.

 ::)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on October 14, 2020, 10:42:33 AM
Why are you putting the onus on him to prove that frum Jews don't travel more than the average American? What do you have supporting your position that they do?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 14, 2020, 10:43:01 AM
My bubby ate cheerios for breakfast yesterday, so General Mills redirected all their inventory to frum grocery stores
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 10:43:48 AM
That may be true for the 150 families in my neighborhood, it's definitely not true for the hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.
ETA: I also have no idea about everyone else in the NYC area.

Remember, we're not discussing whether or not Orthodox Jews travel, we're discussing your claim that Orthodox Jews travel more than other communities.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 11:00:28 AM
Why are you putting the onus on him to prove that frum Jews don't travel more than the average American? What do you have supporting your position that they do?

It's purely anecdotal. I've lived in non-Jewish environments and communities more than I've lived in frum ones. I've met very few frum people who have never been on a plane. It's not uncommon at all to meet non-Jews who've never bee out of state or on a plane, let alone out of the country. We have a disproportionate participation in overnight camps. We have well attended programs for every YT all over the country and all over the world. We have much larger than average families, with well attended simchos all over the world. These things don't happen in non-Jewish communities at anywhere near the same frequency as they do by us. To be clear: they do happen, non-Jews travel, and there are many frequent flyers. But to find a high concentration of them in any one community is very rare.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 14, 2020, 11:01:40 AM
It's purely anecdotal. I've lived in non-Jewish environments and communities more than I've lived in frum ones. I've met very few frum people who have never been on a plane. It's not uncommon at all to meet non-Jews who've never bee out of state or on a plane, let alone out of the country. We have a disproportionate participation in overnight camps. We have well attended programs for every YT all over the country and all over the world. We have much larger than average families, with well attended simchos all over the world. These things don't happen in non-Jewish communities at anywhere near the same frequency as they do by us. To be clear: they do happen, non-Jews travel, and there are many frequent flyers. But to find a high concentration of them in any one community is very rare.
Could that be because you live outside the tri-state area, and in the frum world that means you'll need to fly to visit relatives, attend many simchos, and go to overnight camp?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 11:04:02 AM
It's purely anecdotal. I've lived in non-Jewish environments and communities more than I've lived in frum ones. I've met very few frum people who have never been on a plane. It's not uncommon at all to meet non-Jews who've never bee out of state or on a plane, let alone out of the country. We have a disproportionate participation in overnight camps. We have well attended programs for every YT all over the country and all over the world. We have much larger than average families, with well attended simchos all over the world. These things don't happen in non-Jewish communities at anywhere near the same frequency as they do by us. To be clear: they do happen, non-Jews travel, and there are many frequent flyers. But to find a high concentration of them in any one community is very rare.
I have, in fact I was never on a plane before I turned 21.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 11:05:25 AM
Could that be because you live outside the tri-state area, and in the frum world that means you'll need to fly to visit relatives, attend many simchos, and go to overnight camp?

I've lived in NY and the Tri-state area, as well, I've just spent more time outside than in. Honestly, I flew more when I lived in NY. And living in FL, there are a ridiculous amount of frum people from all over who come here all year long.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 11:05:59 AM
I have, in fact I was never on a plane before I turned 21.

I'm not talking children. I've met many, many middle-aged people who have never flown.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on October 14, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
It's purely anecdotal.
Ie, you're making it up as you go along. I expect a little better from you.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 14, 2020, 11:43:41 AM
Battle of wills

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1909775/day-three-dozens-of-inspectors-swam-boro-park-and-flatbush-video.html

ďHighly credible sources tell YWN that NY Governor Cuomo was livid on Tuesday night after watching a ABC7 news report showing hundreds of children coming out of a popular girls school in Boro Park. The Governor was furious that the community was flouting authority, and that hundreds of businesses and dozens of Yeshivas remained open despite the Executive order to close.Ē

He going to wage war until they cry uncle.
https://patch.com/new-york/newcity/ny-withhold-funds-governments-schools-over-coronavirus
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 12:19:34 PM
Ie, you're making it up as you go along. I expect a little better from you.

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, between June 2018 and June 2019, there were 790 million enplaned passengers in the US. An enplaned passenger is counted each time someone boards a plane. So one-way, with no plane changes. Take in account plane transfers, roundtrip travel, people who fly a few times a year, and frequent flyers who take tens or hundreds of flights a year, and you're left with a small percentage of people who actually fly in any given year.

I don't know how to get hard numbers from the frum community. I don't know if it's even possible. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that between the frum Jews who come to FL for Pesach, Succos, summer vacation, yeshiva week, and simchos, plus the ones who travel to Israel, let alone Europe or other places in the US and the world, we represent an disproportionate percentage of flyers and flights taken.

It may be very unscientific, but I don't think it's a completely uneducated guess.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 12:24:05 PM
According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, between June 2018 and June 2019, there were 790 million enplaned passengers in the US. An enplaned passenger is counted each time someone boards a plane. So one-way, with no plane changes. Take in account plane transfers, roundtrip travel, people who fly a few times a year, and frequent flyers who take tens or hundreds of flights a year, and you're left with a small percentage of people who actually fly in any given year.

I don't know how to get hard numbers from the frum community. I don't know if it's even possible. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that between the frum Jews who come to FL for Pesach, Succos, summer vacation, yeshiva week, and simchos, plus the ones who travel to Israel, let alone Europe or other places in the US and the world, we represent an disproportionate percentage of flyers and flights taken.

It may be very unscientific, but I don't think it's a completely uneducated guess.
Why are you assuming most flights are taken by people who fly tens or hundreds of times a year, but you're assuming most Jews fly to FL a few times a year? I know many many Frum Jews who don't fly every year.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 12:30:31 PM
Why are you assuming most flights are taken by people who fly tens or hundreds of times a year, but you're assuming most Jews fly to FL a few times a year? I know many many Frum Jews who don't fly every year.

Where do you see any of those assumptions?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 14, 2020, 12:31:15 PM
Why are you assuming most flights are taken by people who fly tens or hundreds of times a year, but you're assuming most Jews fly to FL a few times a year? I know many many Frum Jews who don't fly every year.
Because WILL ALL YOU NEW YORKERS STOP COMING TO FLORIDA LAREADY!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 12:36:17 PM
Where do you see any of those assumptions?
Right here
According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, between June 2018 and June 2019, there were 790 million enplaned passengers in the US. An enplaned passenger is counted each time someone boards a plane. So one-way, with no plane changes. Take in account plane transfers, roundtrip travel, people who fly a few times a year, and frequent flyers who take tens or hundreds of flights a year, and you're left with a small percentage of people who actually fly in any given year.

I don't know how to get hard numbers from the frum community. I don't know if it's even possible. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that between the frum Jews who come to FL for Pesach, Succos, summer vacation, yeshiva week, and simchos, plus the ones who travel to Israel, let alone Europe or other places in the US and the world, we represent an disproportionate percentage of flyers and flights taken.

It may be very unscientific, but I don't think it's a completely uneducated guess.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
Right here

That doesn't say that most flights are taken by frequent flyers. It also doesn't say that most frum Jews fly to FL every year.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 12:51:10 PM
Because WILL ALL YOU NEW YORKERS STOP COMING TO FLORIDA LAREADY!!!!!!!
COVID aside, it's great for the frum economy. There are many frum services provided by frum FL residents.
That doesn't say that most flights are taken by frequent flyers. It also doesn't say that most frum Jews fly to FL every year.
Ok not most, but you haven't provided a reason to assume there isn't an equal proportion of frequent flyers among frum Jews and the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 01:00:51 PM
Ok not most, but you haven't provided a reason to assume there isn't an equal proportion of frequent flyers among frum Jews and the rest of the country.

I didn't say that, either. I brought up frequent flyers only with regards to total number of passengers, as a way to illustrate how I believe there are actually fewer individuals travelling in a year than people seem to think. I saw one estimate at 6% of the US population flies in a year. Even if we assume 15%, do you think it's a stretch to say that more than 15% of frum Jews travel in any year?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 14, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
What a ridiculous conversation to have about what percentage of frum Jews travel based on how many visit FL each year. LOL
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 14, 2020, 01:17:06 PM
What a ridiculous conversation to have about what percentage of frum Jews travel based on how many visit FL each year. LOL
The fact that when discussing frum traveling, Florida is overwhelmingly the one destination mentioned, shows what travel geeks we really are.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 01:19:43 PM
Of all the controversial things I've said on here, I didn't think "frum Jews travel more than other groups" would be so hotly contested.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on October 14, 2020, 01:22:21 PM
Of all the controversial things I've said on here, I didn't think "frum Jews travel more than other groups" would be so hotly contested.
+1k
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 14, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
Welcome to DDF. Anything you say can, and will, be taken personally.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Of all the controversial things I've said on here, I didn't think "frum Jews travel more than other groups" would be so hotly contested.
There are controversial things and then there are claims without any basis.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 01:25:10 PM
I didn't say that, either. I brought up frequent flyers only with regards to total number of passengers, as a way to illustrate how I believe there are actually fewer individuals travelling in a year than people seem to think. I saw one estimate at 6% of the US population flies in a year. Even if we assume 15%, do you think it's a stretch to say that more than 15% of frum Jews travel in any year?
I see no reason to assume one way or another.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 14, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Of all the controversial things I've said on here, I didn't think "frum Jews travel more than other groups" would be so hotly contested.
Do you mean the same ones who think the world ends outside Brooklyn?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 14, 2020, 01:40:07 PM
Do you mean the same ones who think the world ends outside Brooklyn?

The same ones who still manage to end up at Chabad Houses in the most random places on Earth?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yelped on October 14, 2020, 02:51:36 PM
I like the direction this thread is going.... Welcome back, DDF. ;)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 14, 2020, 04:04:02 PM
Aside from not being in a school building, are there any benefits to basement classes?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 14, 2020, 04:26:43 PM
Aside from not being in a school building, are there any benefits to basement classes?
Harder to get caught.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Luvisrael on October 14, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ornella-wolh-86200671_day-three-dozens-of-inspectors-swarm-boro-activity-6722183244579688449-ezZx
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: KSMH on October 14, 2020, 08:08:05 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mf1 on October 14, 2020, 09:32:30 PM
https://hamodia.com/2020/10/14/red-zone-hamodia-touro-roundtable-discussion-new-york-covid-uptick/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 15, 2020, 09:05:55 AM
Harder to get caught.
If they are caught, I wonder who would be fined.  (Because to be real, 25 kids aren't going to sit quietly in a basement all day.)

If anyone here is OK sending their kids, can you explain your thought process?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 15, 2020, 09:31:02 AM
If they are caught, I wonder who would be fined.  (Because to be real, 25 kids aren't going to sit quietly in a basement all day.)

If anyone here is OK sending their kids, can you explain your thought process?
Why don't you explain why you wouldn't be ok sending your kids?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 15, 2020, 10:47:45 AM
Why don't you explain why you wouldn't be ok sending your kids?
I typed up a post with 6 reasons, but I am wondering why you need a list to refute before sharing the thought process?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 15, 2020, 10:50:07 AM
I typed up a post with 6 reasons, but I am wondering why you need a list to refute before sharing the thought process?
1) I don't live in NY
2) My oldest is in Nursery
3) I see no reason not to send a kid, unless you can explain why someone shouldn't send there is nothing to discuss.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 15, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
I typed up a post with 6 reasons, but I am wondering why you need a list to refute before sharing the thought process?

I'm not exactly understanding why it matters. If someone is comfortable to send then they should. If they're not then they shouldn't. No reason to have to defend your choice, its your decision.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 15, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
1) I don't live in NY
2) My oldest is in Nursery
3) I see no reason not to send a kid, unless you can explain why someone shouldn't send there is nothing to discuss.
Then you are irrelevant.  "If anyone here is OK sending their kids, can you explain your thought process?" was posed to those facing the decision.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 15, 2020, 11:00:43 AM
I'm not exactly understanding why it matters. If someone is comfortable to send then they should. If they're not then they shouldn't. No reason to have to defend your choice, its your decision.
Actually, it affects all the kids in the school.  While no need to defend any position, I'm trying to understand both sides.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 15, 2020, 11:02:13 AM
Actually, it affects all the kids in the school.  While no need to defend any position, I'm trying to understand both sides.
I think the general though process is why not. If you feel there is a reason not to send, the onus is on you to justify your position.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 15, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
Then you are irrelevant.  "If anyone here is OK sending their kids, can you explain your thought process?" was posed to those facing the decision.
Is there a reason for someone who would send to school (if it was opened) not to send to school in a basement?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 15, 2020, 11:14:08 AM
Is there a reason for someone who would send to school (if it was opened) not to send to school in a basement?
No
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 11:23:19 AM
I'm not exactly understanding why it matters. If someone is comfortable to send then they should. If they're not then they shouldn't. No reason to have to defend your choice, its your decision.

This is what people seem to be missing. You don't live in a bubble, and neither does anyone else. Every action you take has the potential to affect those around you. Leaving the health issues aside, can you not see how extremely detrimental this can be to the school and the entire community on a legal/governmental level if it goes south?

When dealing with a wild animal in a zoo, there are rules and regulations in place to keep you safe and the animal performing the way it should. If you break those rules and provoke the animal, you will get attacked. While being attacked, there are actions you can take to make the animal lose interest, ot you can keep on provoking the animal to encourage the continuation of the attack. After the attack, you can sue the zoo. While you are being attacked, blaming the animal or the zoo system won't help you.

By all means, keep provoking the animal.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 15, 2020, 11:39:05 AM
This is what people seem to be missing. You don't live in a bubble, and neither does anyone else. Every action you take has the potential to affect those around you. Leaving the health issues aside, can you not see how extremely detrimental this can be to the school and the entire community on a legal/governmental level if it goes south?

When dealing with a wild animal in a zoo, there are rules and regulations in place to keep you safe and the animal performing the way it should. If you break those rules and provoke the animal, you will get attacked. While being attacked, there are actions you can take to make the animal lose interest, ot you can keep on provoking the animal to encourage the continuation of the attack. After the attack, you can sue the zoo. While you are being attacked, blaming the animal or the zoo system won't help you.

By all means, keep provoking the animal.

Is the wild animal Corona or Cuomo?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
Is the wild animal Corona or Cuomo?

I'm leaving the health stuff out of this for a minute, and talking about Zoo York.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 15, 2020, 12:53:38 PM
I'm leaving the health stuff out of this for a minute, and talking about Zoo York.

The analogy is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
The analogy is ridiculous.
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be @Yehuda57's job around here.  :)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: gozalim on October 15, 2020, 01:24:14 PM
Is the wild animal Corona or Cuomo?
contrary to popular belief, I have not seen evidence of the virus being a sentient being, able to be provoked (or for that matter placated)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: LNS on October 15, 2020, 03:27:32 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1910305/powerful-op-ed-by-shlomo-yehuda-rechnitz-calls-out-tischler-as-rodef-slams-protests-in-boro-park.html

not sure if this is the correct thread but i do think everyone should read it and that he is totally right
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yosefsv on October 15, 2020, 03:30:59 PM
If anyone here is OK sending their kids, can you explain your thought process?
1) The risk of not having school is worse then the risk of having school.
2) The Rabbonim know the actual situation on the ground, and if they feel comfortable to have the schools open then I am too.
3) I and my DW already had the virus and we both have antibodies, and we believe that our children all already had it (they all had fever etc. while we had it).
4) It seems like its not dangerous for children.
5) Everybody will anyway have it sooner or later.
6) Our community does not seem to care that their might be people who are carrying the virus.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 03:33:39 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1910305/powerful-op-ed-by-shlomo-yehuda-rechnitz-calls-out-tischler-as-rodef-slams-protests-in-boro-park.html

not sure if this is the correct thread but i do think everyone should read it and that he is totally right

It's been posted a couple of times already, and he absolutely is.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mootkim on October 15, 2020, 03:40:01 PM
1) The risk of not having school is worse then the risk of having school.
2) The Rabbonim know the actual situation on the ground, and if they feel comfortable to have the schools open then I am too.
3) I and my DW already had the virus and we both have antibodies, and we believe that our children all already had it (they all had fever etc. while we had it).
4) It seems like its not dangerous for children.
5) Everybody will anyway have it sooner or later.
6) Our community does not seem to care that their might be people who are carrying the virus.
I would also add: What exactly is the game plan? to have schools open for a few days and then shut again over and over? for there to be zero cases at all?? Are we supposed to just shut our lives for 2 years? Sooner or later we need to learn to live with it.

To quote Rabbi Bender, "it is time to take out the dreidels"
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: LNS on October 15, 2020, 03:42:51 PM
It's been posted a couple of times already, and he absolutely is.
oh sorry haven't been following and just came across this article
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 15, 2020, 04:14:34 PM
This is what people seem to be missing. You don't live in a bubble, and neither does anyone else. Every action you take has the potential to affect those around you. Leaving the health issues aside, can you not see how extremely detrimental this can be to the school and the entire community on a legal/governmental level if it goes south?

When dealing with a wild animal in a zoo, there are rules and regulations in place to keep you safe and the animal performing the way it should. If you break those rules and provoke the animal, you will get attacked. While being attacked, there are actions you can take to make the animal lose interest, ot you can keep on provoking the animal to encourage the continuation of the attack. After the attack, you can sue the zoo. While you are being attacked, blaming the animal or the zoo system won't help you.

By all means, keep provoking the animal.
Are you really implying that the tens of thousands of Jewish families in NY who would otherwise send their Bachurim, boys and girls in yeshiva/school no problem, shouldn't even arrange some sort of "basement" alternative - which to my knowledge can't and won't trigger a withholding of school funds - just and wholly because it may provoke the animal (Coumo), as you say "Leaving the health issues aside"? You know very well that these schools can't run via zoom, and we know too well that class phone conferencing is a little to none alternative, even if it would have been shayech to set it up properly.

I'm sorry, but there's only a certain price one would pay to calm down the animal, and keeping the bachurim and boys 2 weeks without proper Torah learning, and the rest of nudgy kids at home driving the entire family insane, isn't it.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Luvisrael on October 15, 2020, 04:31:47 PM
It's been posted a couple of times already, and he absolutely is.
one thing is for sure. Public opinion of our community is at an all time low. Cuomo and Deblasio opinion of us isnít that great either. What do we gain by Public protest? Whoís minds are we trying to change? It seems the best route would be to hold talks with our community ďleadersĒ and govt behind closed doors?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 15, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
It seems the best route would be to hold talks with our community ďleadersĒ and govt behind closed doors?
While this sounds like a great plan, problem is that the elected ďleadersĒ have been in isolation for 6 months now. One reason everyone crowds around Tishler is because heís the only one showing up on the streets. And when thereís was a meeting with the governor he went & screwed them over.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 15, 2020, 04:49:06 PM
While this sounds like a great plan, problem is that the elected ďleadersĒ have been in isolation for 6 months now. One reason everyone crowds around Tishler is because heís the only one showing up on the streets. And when thereís was a meeting with the governor he went & screwed them over.

The leaders are getting hammered by every politician. "The Jews are the only ones not being compliant, the Jews think they are above the law," etc etc. Now, cases are up and they have numbers to add to their complaints. Anyone involved in local politics will tell you they get dozens of calls every day.

Now, you and I know that much of what's behind these complaints is BS, and the lockdown rules will only make compliance worse, not better. But them be the facts. It's very tough to fight city hall when city hall is getting complaints from all sides telling them to do something about the Jews.

I don't know what the answer is.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 15, 2020, 05:08:22 PM
The leaders are getting hammered by every politician. "The Jews are the only ones not being compliant, the Jews think they are above the law," etc etc. Now, cases are up and they have numbers to add to their complaints. Anyone involved in local politics will tell you they get dozens of calls every day.

Now, you and I know that much of what's behind these complaints is BS, and the lockdown rules will only make compliance worse, not better. But them be the facts. It's very tough to fight city hall when city hall is getting complaints from all sides telling them to do something about the Jews.

I don't know what the answer is.

Had there been even some superficial show of acknowledging the virus exists over the last few months I think that would have been helped significantly. It can still help something even now. An example would be for people to wear masks as chin guards. It would allow a "we are wearing masks". Right now we opened ourselves up to an impression that is not altogether wrong of not caring at all about a deadly virus.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 15, 2020, 05:11:49 PM
Had there been even some superficial show of acknowledging the virus exists over the last few months I think that would have been helped significantly. It can still help something even now. An example would be for people to wear masks as chin guards. It would allow a "we are wearing masks". Right now we opened ourselves up to an impression that is not altogether wrong of not caring at all about a deadly virus.

Many of the "leaders" @TimT is talking about were asking for people to wear masks. They were ignored or laughed at.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 15, 2020, 05:14:04 PM
Had there been even some superficial show of acknowledging the virus exists over the last few months I think that would have been helped significantly. It can still help something even now. An example would be for people to wear masks as chin guards. It would allow a "we are wearing masks". Right now we opened ourselves up to an impression that is not altogether wrong of not caring at all about a deadly virus.
I call it "איבה masks", getting more and more popular, not sure if to a satisfactory point though.

And even just below the nose isn't uncomfortable IME, and surely is a better איבה protection.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 15, 2020, 05:30:53 PM
" "
I approve of the quotation marks.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 15, 2020, 05:53:08 PM
The leaders are getting hammered by every politician. "The Jews are the only ones not being compliant, the Jews think they are above the law," etc etc. Now, cases are up and they have numbers to add to their complaints. Anyone involved in local politics will tell you they get dozens of calls every day.

Now, you and I know that much of what's behind these complaints is BS, and the lockdown rules will only make compliance worse, not better. But them be the facts. It's very tough to fight city hall when city hall is getting complaints from all sides telling them to do something about the Jews.

Business owners have tried reaching these politicians. Some donít even bother calling back while others had no clue whatís been taking place on the streets these last few days. Must be so nice to sit home & collect a paycheck. When our fence-cutter-in-chief was opening up the parks they all came out of hiding for the photos to collect some credit.
I don't know what the answer is.
Thatís why you werenít elected to Albany
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 15, 2020, 06:02:28 PM
Thatís why you werenít elected to Albany

Because those that were seem to have it all figured out.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 15, 2020, 06:04:33 PM
Because those that were seem to have it all figured out.
Exactly the sentiment around here. There is nobody like Hikind.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Luvisrael on October 15, 2020, 06:15:18 PM
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/yitzchok-hersh-binet-401492191_please-spread-ugcPost-6722545369592422400-ik0M
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 06:17:28 PM
Are you really implying that the tens of thousands of Jewish families in NY who would otherwise send their Bachurim, boys and girls in yeshiva/school no problem, shouldn't even arrange some sort of "basement" alternative - which to my knowledge can't and won't trigger a withholding of school funds - just and wholly because it may provoke the animal (Coumo), as you say "Leaving the health issues aside"? You know very well that these schools can't run via zoom, and we know too well that class phone conferencing is a little to none alternative, even if it would have been shayech to set it up properly.

I'm sorry, but there's only a certain price one would pay to calm down the animal, and keeping the bachurim and boys 2 weeks without proper Torah learning, and the rest of nudgy kids at home driving the entire family insane, isn't it.

I won't pretend to have an answer to the school dilemma. I freely admit that I'm more analyst than idea-man. But not having a better answer doesn't make the basement schools a good idea. When this gets out, and it will, and it coincides with a large wave in NY, we will be blamed and have no viable defense, because the optics are indefensible. This isn't just about right now, or funding for this year. This has the ability to derail the frum agenda in NY for years and years to come. This has the ability to ratchet up the hate and division with our neighbors to unprecedented levels. This has the ability to cause real, physical harm, in ways which we had only begun to get a glimpse of over the last few years.

If you think this is just about Cuomo or DeBlasio, you're wrong. They are just the tip of the iceberg. We don't have many friends in legislature. Most of the ones who give us the time of day will be more than happy to throw us to the wolves if public sentiment is on their side. As someone else (@aygart ?) said, the up and comers on the left make the current crop look moderate. And we do need friends in legislature. Crises in housing, poverty, and school funding will be joined by attacks on metzitza, kaparos, shchita, batei din, and other things we value greatly. We're playing with fire here.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yard sale on October 15, 2020, 06:43:32 PM
I would also add: What exactly is the game plan? to have schools open for a few days and then shut again over and over? for there to be zero cases at all?? Are we supposed to just shut our lives for 2 years? Sooner or later we need to learn to live with it.

To quote Rabbi Bender, "it is time to take out the dreidels"
There comes a time when you have to do what is right no matter the cost. This is for the gedolim to decide but the situation is one that may call for desperate measures. I just spoke to a 7th grade Rebbe in a good yeshiva in Brooklyn that is using zoom and they are losing the kids in multiple ways. Thereís a time when you have to sacrifice everything for the chinuch of the next dor including relationships in Albany and that time is fast approaching.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
There comes a time when you have to do what is right no matter the cost. This is for the gedolim to decide but the situation is one that may call for desperate measures. I just spoke to a 7th grade Rebbe in a good yeshiva in Brooklyn that is using zoom and they are losing the kids in multiple ways. Thereís a time when you have to sacrifice everything for the chinuch of the next dor including relationships in Albany and that time is fast approaching.

I have a 6th grader on Zoom. In person school is hard enough, and Zoom does nobody any favors. But I still think it's the best option so far.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 15, 2020, 06:55:42 PM
I have a 6th grader
And here I thought I was an old man
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 15, 2020, 06:56:32 PM
I won't pretend to have an answer to the school dilemma. I freely admit that I'm more analyst than idea-man. But not having a better answer doesn't make the basement schools a good idea. When this gets out, and it will, and it coincides with a large wave in NY, we will be blamed and have no viable defense, because the optics are indefensible. This isn't just about right now, or funding for this year. This has the ability to derail the frum agenda in NY for years and years to come. This has the ability to ratchet up the hate and division with our neighbors to unprecedented levels. This has the ability to cause real, physical harm, in ways which we had only begun to get a glimpse of over the last few years.

If you think this is just about Cuomo or DeBlasio, you're wrong. They are just the tip of the iceberg. We don't have many friends in legislature. Most of the ones who give us the time of day will be more than happy to throw us to the wolves if public sentiment is on their side. As someone else (@aygart ?) said, the up and comers on the left make the current crop look moderate. And we do need friends in legislature. Crises in housing, poverty, and school funding will be joined by attacks on metzitza, kaparos, shchita, batei din, and other things we value greatly. We're playing with fire here.
You're describing a lose-lose situation, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 06:58:46 PM
You're describing a lose-lose situation, unfortunately.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean we throw in the towel and lose.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 06:59:42 PM
And here I thought I was an old man

How does my 6th grader change that?   ;)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yard sale on October 15, 2020, 07:08:15 PM
I feel like thereís a certain danger in America in that itís been so comfortable that weíve forgotten what itís like to sacrifice everything for what we believe in. That is the situation that the Jews faced in Spain and the result was that many were not able to rise to the call.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 07:13:20 PM
I feel like thereís a certain danger in America in that itís been so comfortable that weíve forgotten what itís like to sacrifice everything for what we believe in. That is the situation that the Jews faced in Spain and the result was that many were not able to rise to the call.

My personal opinion is that this isn't a situation where what we believe in is being challenged, just how we've gotten used to doing it. And even that is temporary due to circumstances beyond any human control.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 15, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
My personal opinion is that this isn't a situation where what we believe in is being challenged, just how we've gotten used to doing it. And even that is temporary due to circumstances beyond any human control.
A temporary thing that has no end in sight. Just this week Cuomo said that we will need to keep the status quo for at least a year after a vaccine is available.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 15, 2020, 07:34:14 PM
My personal opinion is that this isn't a situation where what we believe in is being challenged, just how we've gotten used to doing it. And even that is temporary due to circumstances beyond any human control.
A temporary thing that has no end in sight. Just this week Cuomo said that we will need to keep the status quo for at least a year after a vaccine is available.
There's no way they're going to relinquish this control, they'll find a new excuse.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 15, 2020, 07:37:24 PM
There's no way they're going to relinquish this control, they'll find a new excuse.
Exactly. So Iím curious when [mention]Lurker [/mention]thinks this well end and for how long people should be willing to watch kids waste away on zoom.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 15, 2020, 07:45:59 PM
Exactly. So Iím curious when [mention]Lurker [/mention]thinks this well end and for how long people should be willing to watch kids waste away on zoom.
How about let children attend in-person school and make small weddings? Or is it worth sacrificing everything to be able to have 400 guests including people from out of state at every wedding?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 15, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
How about let children attend in-person school and make small weddings? Or is it worth sacrificing everything to be able to have 400 guests including people from out of state at every wedding?
Straw man argument if I ever saw one. Iím talking about kids in school and youíre telling me that we shouldnít have 400 person weddings, youíll have zero argument from me about that one. But once we are here, when would you think itís safe to have a 400 person wedding?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: gozalim on October 15, 2020, 07:58:25 PM
If mesirus nefesh to send kids to basement schools was the beginning and end of our התגרות ב coumo, we'd be doing pretty good
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: gozalim on October 15, 2020, 07:59:49 PM
But once we are here, when would you think itís safe to have a 400 person wedding?
due to covid concerns? or heart attack concerns?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 15, 2020, 08:01:18 PM
due to covid concerns? or heart attack concerns?
Health
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 15, 2020, 08:12:27 PM
@Afrages6 @avromie7 You guys remember that schools were open before Tishrei, right? WE DID THIS. Don't forget that. They weren't attacking our schools until we decided we could cancel Covid and shove it in everyone's faces. So yes, this is a temporary situation, and one that can be avoided in the future, even if the virus is still around. When will it end? I don't know. But we seem to be hell-bent on making things as hard as possible for ourselves until it does.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 15, 2020, 08:47:37 PM
Straw man argument if I ever saw one. Iím talking about kids in school and youíre telling me that we shouldnít have 400 person weddings, youíll have zero argument from me about that one. But once we are here, when would you think itís safe to have a 400 person wedding?
How about we take a hypothetical of never. Now what. Is not having 400 people at a wedding really such an attack on religion?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yuneeq on October 15, 2020, 08:51:39 PM
I feel like thereís a certain danger in America in that itís been so comfortable that weíve forgotten what itís like to sacrifice everything for what we believe in. That is the situation that the Jews faced in Spain and the result was that many were not able to rise to the call.

The comfort we have is believing that anti-semitism is something that simply needs to be denounced, and doesnít require any action on our part to prevent. Real Mesirus nefesh means wearing a mask and listening to the rules even if theyíre tough and make no sense so we can keep our schools and shuls open. Trying to circumvent the rules got us in this mess in the first place, circumventing them further will only prompt them to double down.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 15, 2020, 08:54:01 PM
The comfort we have is believing that anti-semitism is something that simply needs to be denounced, and doesnít require any action on our part to prevent. Real Mesirus nefesh means wearing a mask and listening to the rules so we can keep our schools and shuls open. Trying to circumvent the rules got us in this mess in the first place, circumventing them further will only prompt them to double down.
+1billion!
How many people have I heard saying H' wants us to be moiser nefesh for our shuls and children's chinuch? Well just maybe that mesiras nefesh is wearing a mask even if it's a little uncomfortable
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 15, 2020, 09:03:25 PM
The comfort we have is believing that anti-semitism is something that simply needs to be denounced, and doesnít require any action on our part to prevent. Real Mesirus nefesh means wearing a mask and listening to the rules even if theyíre tough and make no sense so we can keep our schools and shuls open. Trying to circumvent the rules got us in this mess in the first place, circumventing them further will only prompt them to double down.
Beautifully put.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 15, 2020, 09:35:20 PM
Health
Aren't both covid and heart attack health concerns?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 15, 2020, 10:42:43 PM
Straw man argument if I ever saw one. Iím talking about kids in school and youíre telling me that we shouldnít have 400 person weddings, youíll have zero argument from me about that one. But once we are here, when would you think itís safe to have a 400 person wedding?
Explain how itís a straw man? Have you forgotten that kids were allowed into school and did so, until complete recklessness (such as 400+ person weddings) caused it to get out of hand? When people post how this is the equivalent of leaving Spain, and we need to be moser nefesh, make no mistake: theyíre making the argument that we should leave because we canít make the 400 person weddings, not because of schools.

To answer your question (which I shouldnít need to, because if itís unsafe now itís not a valid cheshbon that ďwe may never be able toĒ, that doesnít change the current metzius, itís not up to us to play G-d only do do the hishtadlus we are expected to), letís say never. Does that change the argument?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 16, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
theyíre making the argument that we should leave because we canít make the 400 person weddings, not because of schools.

Yes because of schools - not to argue to leave, but to argue that they should be open because that's not the first thing that has to go when there's a spike. It's essential and more safe than shopping in a crowded supermarket where its difficult or nearly impossible to social distance.

And 200 person weddings are enough.  ;D
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 16, 2020, 12:19:34 AM
Yes because of schools - not to argue to leave, but to argue that they should be open because that's not the first thing that has to go when there's a spike. It's essential and more safe than shopping in a crowded supermarket where its difficult or nearly impossible to social distance.

And 200 person weddings are enough.  ;D
[Supermarkets where people go for a relatively short time (with masks, in large open areas with better ventilation, and generally not near other specific people for more than a few seconds at a time) are far safer than schools where people sit for many hours consecutively (without masks, in relatively small rooms without adequate ventilation, close to the same people for long periods).]

That wasnít the point. OP suggested that we should be sacrificing for the schools. Sacrifice all you want, but you arenít sacrificing for the schools- youíre sacrificing for the large and out of control weddings.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 16, 2020, 12:19:52 AM
Explain how itís a straw man? Have you forgotten that kids were allowed into school and did so, until complete recklessness (such as 400+ person weddings) caused it to get out of hand? When people post how this is the equivalent of leaving Spain, and we need to be moser nefesh, make no mistake: theyíre making the argument that we should leave because we canít make the 400 person weddings, not because of schools.

To answer your question (which I shouldnít need to, because if itís unsafe now itís not a valid cheshbon that ďwe may never be able toĒ, that doesnít change the current metzius, itís not up to us to play G-d only do do the hishtadlus we are expected to), letís say never. Does that change the argument?
So you think itís unsafe for kids to be in school currently? Nothing to do with the government?

But if parents feel it is safe then sending kids to school in a basement shouldnít be a problem?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 16, 2020, 12:23:25 AM
Why can't we separate hate and health?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 16, 2020, 12:26:31 AM
So you think itís unsafe for kids to be in school currently? Nothing to do with the government?

But if parents feel it is safe then sending kids to school in a basement shouldnít be a problem?
Iím sending my children currently (NJ).

I do think closing schools when the virus is extremely prevalent in the community should be seriously considered, government opinion notwithstanding. Measures outside of schools (like smaller weddings) to keep the caseload low can help keep schools open most of the time.

I donít understand what difference a basement would make, although it would limit contact pools.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 16, 2020, 02:37:34 AM
[Supermarkets where people go for a relatively short time (with masks, in large open areas with better ventilation, and generally not near other specific people for more than a few seconds at a time) are far safer than schools where people sit for many hours consecutively (without masks, in relatively small rooms without adequate ventilation, close to the same people for long periods).]

That wasnít the point. OP suggested that we should be sacrificing for the schools. Sacrifice all you want, but you arenít sacrificing for the schools- youíre sacrificing for the large and out of control weddings.

[Not the supermarkets that I've been to the past few weeks - they were overcrowded zoos and unfortunately not everyone wears their mask properly the entire time they're there which can be upwards of an hour. I'm also not sure their ventilation is any better than in a school.]

So you're saying that having schools open is a major contributor to a spike and therefore it is warranted to be closed when there is one? As in the first thing to run to do when a spike is noticed?

The data that I've seen does not indicate that open schools contribute much, if at all to spikes.

According to the opinion of many here, (and I believe yours too, correct me if I'm wrong) the facts that contributed to the current spike was the disregard for regulations (i.e. masks, SD, etc) as well as large group gatherings such as weddings and shul. School wasn't much of a factor.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 16, 2020, 09:04:08 AM
[Not the supermarkets that I've been to the past few weeks - they were overcrowded zoos and unfortunately not everyone wears their mask properly the entire time they're there which can be upwards of an hour. I'm also not sure their ventilation is any better than in a school.]

So you're saying that having schools open is a major contributor to a spike and therefore it is warranted to be closed when there is one? As in the first thing to run to do when a spike is noticed?

The data that I've seen does not indicate that open schools contribute much, if at all to spikes.

According to the opinion of many here, (and I believe yours too, correct me if I'm wrong) the facts that contributed to the current spike was the disregard for regulations (i.e. masks, SD, etc) as well as large group gatherings such as weddings and shul. School wasn't much of a factor.

It is not likely to create a spike but once the spike is there it can make it worse. Another way those who can't control themselves are closing the schools (then making the self righteous claim that they are trying to keep the schools open)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 16, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
Not sure which thread to post this in. But man, this is hot fire which I hope will be widely read

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/religion-science-coronavirus
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: LNS on October 16, 2020, 12:03:43 PM
Not sure which thread to post this in. But man, this is hot fire which I hope will be widely read

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/religion-science-coronavirus

very well written and i would like to say he is correct when it comes to being an American first but the mistake here is we are Jews first.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 16, 2020, 12:21:29 PM
So you're saying that having schools open is a major contributor to a spike and therefore it is warranted to be closed when there is one? As in the first thing to run to do when a spike is noticed?

It is clear that you either did not read what I wrote or didnít understand it.

The data that I've seen does not indicate that open schools contribute much, if at all to spikes.
What data have you seen? I doubt you actually have a source for that. There is actually a very strong correlation between open schools and large spikes (though I and others have argued itís just a correlation not a cause).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 16, 2020, 12:25:58 PM
Not sure which thread to post this in. But man, this is hot fire which I hope will be widely read

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/religion-science-coronavirus
Great column
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 16, 2020, 12:42:18 PM
It is clear that you either did not read what I wrote or didnít understand it.
What data have you seen? I doubt you actually have a source for that. There is actually a very strong correlation between open schools and large spikes (though I and others have argued itís just a correlation not a cause).

I read it all and completely understood.

Where is the spike then that would correlate with all of our schools being open from the end of May through June? And please don't tell me its the current spike, it doesn't take 3 to 4 months to see a correlation.

I do recall reading a data based article recently that had clear data showing that the cases found in schools throughout the USA for elementary age and down are very minimal and are not major contributors to case counts. Unfortunately, I don't recall where I read it, but if and when I do, I'll be happy to post.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 16, 2020, 12:45:25 PM
Not sure which thread to post this in. But man, this is hot fire which I hope will be widely read

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/religion-science-coronavirus
Can anyone copy/paste it here? No access now.
TIA
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 16, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
I read it all and completely understood.

Where is the spike then that would correlate with all of our schools being open from the end of May through June? And please don't tell me its the current spike, it doesn't take 3 to 4 months to see a correlation.

I do recall reading a data based article recently that had clear data showing that the cases found in schools throughout the USA for elementary age and down are very minimal and are not major contributors to case counts. Unfortunately, I don't recall where I read it, but if and when I do, I'll be happy to post.

If there is no virus to spread, schools will not spread it. However, when there is a spike in prevalence of the virus somewhere, schools serve as fuel for greater spread. Think of it as a magnifying glass. If there's nothing there, it won't make anything bigger.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 16, 2020, 12:51:43 PM
Can anyone copy/paste it here? No access now.
TIA
Religion, Science, and the Religion of Science

Liel Leibovitz

New Yorkís scapegoated Haredi communities appear to be the last Americans capable of maintaining a sane balance between science and faith

This past week, I read about 407 articles, some in the Jewish press and some in national publications, expressing absolute horror over the images of Haredi Jews protesting new COVID-related strictures. The stories all read the same: Here again were the bearded men in black, fetishizing their benighted way of life and failing, in their medieval misapprehension of scientific principles, to fathom the threats posed by the virus. In so doing, they are a shonda and are nothing like us, sophisticated modern Jews who are savvy and smart and responsible. Shame on them.

In that spirit, allow me to offer a retort: In the fullest, truest, and most literal sense of these words, the Haredim have shown themselves this week to be the real American Jews, displaying dedication not only to the fundaments of faith but also to concrete American commitments like freedom or fairness or, for that matter, science.

Consider the following: As of this writing, 8,795 medical and public health scientists, and 22,290 medical practitioners, have signed the Great Barrington Declaration, which was authored by three epidemiologists from Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford universities and argues that keeping our current lockdown policies in place ďwill cause irreparable damage.Ē Their reasoning seems to have struck a chord with the World Health Organization, which this week reversed its position and admitted that the only thing the lockdowns managed to achieve was condemn millions to poverty and misery.

The Haredi Jews, unlike the swarms of armchair public health experts who popped up to offer their unreasoned opinions online, understood the effects of the lockdown intimately. Thatís because many of them live in small spaces with large, mutligenerational families, which means that the lockdowns themselves were a major cause of viral transmissions in Haredi neighborhoods. Itís also why this community suffered so gravely while observing the lockdowns from the very beginning, and why the death rates in New York were so high. It hardly takes a medical degree to realize that when you lock families together in tightly packed buildings, those already at risk are going to suffer gravely. The same thing happened in New Yorkís nursing homes, turned by Gov. Andrew Cuomoís murderously malfeasant policies into death factories.

Considered against this background, Haredi behavior is eminently sane. Forget the cherry-picked shots of young maskless men thronging together for this simcha or that; you wouldíve found such images in any community in the city, had you bothered looking. Here, for the most part, was a community engaged in rational, evidence-based behavior, based on their own values, which in fact accords with the recommendations of a large and increasing section of the public health community. Itís the rest of the city, and a large section of the country, whoíve gone nuts, fetishizing lockdowns and embracing a host of measures which, by normative public health standards, are causing far more harm than the virus does.

What, then, can the nattering nabobs who prattle on about ďscienceĒ while disdaining its core precepts learn from the Haredi community? Two major lessons. First, how to be Jewish. And second, how to be American.

Sometime in midsummer, when New York Cityís COVID cases plummeted and the curve was flattened and mortality rates dipped blissfully low, many of my friends and neighbors began chanting the same invocation we residents of the nationís least sensible city turn to every time the going gets especially tough. Weíre resilient, they hummed, and weíll get through this. Just look! The restaurants all have outdoor seating now, courtesy of a few narrowed lanes of traffic. You can get booze to go and drink on the street. And the parks are still full of people picnicking and throwing the ball around and proving that you can still have a great and good life here in New York even while obeying sensible and essential health regulations.

Know what almost never came up in these giddy conversations about how the new normal isnít all that bad? The fact that nearly every shulóand practically every non-Orthodox shulóremained and remains closed. People who made a beautiful habit of sipping sake on Thursday evening while sitting outdoors at their favorite sushi joint had far less interest in making sure that, come Friday night, their synagogue, too, would offer an in-person experience that was safe and meaningful. Even Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur were written off as necessary victims of COVID, Zoomed at best or otherwise ignored.

None of this, mind you, is to suggest that people who toiled to arrange in-person servicesólike the blessed Hart Levine, a young rabbi who took the initiative, got a permit, shut down 185th Street, and offered the sort of warm and eclectic and welcoming High Holiday minyans that really ought to have popped up on every other block of the cityóor the people who attended them are somehow better Jews. Observe as you wish, or donít. If listening to Kol Nidre on your iPhone is enough for you, hallelujah. But none of this changes the simple and essential fact of life, namely that you are what you prioritize. If you deem Judaism essential, youíre going to work very hard to make it work, evenóor especiallyówhen times are tough. Natan Sharansky celebrated Hanukkah in the gulag. And plenty of Jews in New York celebrated Yom Kippuródistanced, masked, and in person. The majority of them, however, were Haredi.

Which should come as no surprise: These are, after all, the folks we sometimes call, our disdain barely concealed, the ďultra-Orthodox,Ē as if we are the arbiters of Orthodoxy and are free to determine how much observance is tasteful and acceptable and how much simply exceeds the boundaries of good taste. So here comes the second, and far more surprising part of the realization, namely that the Haredim show, at this moment, a far more profound understanding of what it means to be American than any other members of the Jewish community.

When they were singled out for criticism by Gov. Cuomo and New York Cityís Mayor Bill de Blasio, they fairly pointed out that plenty of other minority groups throughout the city have experienced spikes in COVID cases, and none were subjected to derisive and bigoted statements that made them feel like perpetrators rather than victims. When cops were dispatched to chain up playgrounds, they said that such discrimination on the basis of ethnic affiliation and religious belief was profoundly unconstitutional.

Then came the riots that followed the murder of George Floyd, and the Haredim, perplexed, asked why 15,000 of their neighbors could congregate in Brooklynís Grand Army Plaza to state collectively that Black Trans Lives Matter, but Jews couldnít get together in a safe manner and pray as their faith commands. Asked that simple question, Mayor de Blasio dismissively replied that comparing religious services and civil protests was like comparing apples and oranges; the latter, he stated, incredibly, were sacred and protected while the former were some sort of trivialities. Again, the Haredim pointed out what shouldíve been obvious to everyone, namely that the freedom to practice religion is a fundamental American guaranteeóif not the most fundamental of them allóand that no one who cares about America should remain silent when the government chooses to suppress this freedom while allowing other forms of political congregation of which it approves to proceed without interruption. Once again, most non-Orthodox Jews were unmoved by this argument, fearing, perhaps, that by pointing out the grotesque double standards at play here they would be accused of being insufficiently faithful to the ultra-orthodoxies that govern so much of liberal society these days.

Like, say, the idea of science. If you believe in itótruly, deeply, and unequivocallyóyou understand that science isnít a faith-based system. It cares little for politics or virtues. Itís a blissfully agnostic methodology that makes guesses, compares them with available evidence, and amends, alters, or rejects them based on results. So, if youíre being true to science, say, hereís how you should be thinking about public gatherings: Are they unsafe? Then theyíre as unsafe for the proponents of Black Lives just as they are for the Satmars. Are they safe under some conditions? Then let us be clear about precisely what these conditions are.

Take, for example, Gov. Cuomoís decree that no more than 10 people are allowed in a house of worship at any given time. If you possess even a modicum of common sense, you realize that this idea is, at its core, profoundly anti-scientific, as it has nothing to say about the size of the house of worship in question. Ten people in a small one-room shtiebel is a real risk; 10 people in a grand synagogue built to seat thousands is a real farce. A governor serious about science and public safety rather than about seizing power wouldíve understood that and acted accordingly, offering guidelines that were sensible and measured and concrete. The only ones pointing out this travesty are the Haredim.

Itís of little surprise, then, that the main flag on view during the Haredi protests last week was the Gadsden flag. Donít Tread on Me, that quintessentially American cri de coeur, is, these days, primarily the domain of the Haredi community. Everywhere else in the Jewish world, the slogans recited are the confused and exhausted and meaningless truisms of nice liberals who canít or donít care to explain the staggering contradictions, violations, hypocrisies, and usurpations committed with their tacit support.

Flatten the curve, wear a mask, close the shulsóall were accepted without too much attention to detail or rationale and without asking what, in effect, weíre risking when we sign away so many of our freedoms to officials who seem to have nothing but the vaguest grasp on science and democracy alike. Thereís nothing less Jewish, or less American, than that. The Haredim understand that by succumbing to the tyranny of illogic, the sort that restricts attendance regardless of the size of the venue or deems one form of gathering acceptable but not another, all will be lost. To surrender thusly would be a total disruption of their Jewish and American way of life. Their critics, sadly, prefer instead to worship at a very different altar, sanctifying their leftist bona fides and reverence to leaders from the correct political party rather than asking hard but obvious questions. What we see in Brooklyn these days, then, is nothing less than a religious war, in which the Haredim, in a delicious twist of fate, have actual science on their side. Hereís hoping they prevail.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 16, 2020, 01:24:13 PM
Religion, Science, and the Religion of Science

Thanks for your effort!

Some true arguments there.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yitzgar on October 16, 2020, 01:28:36 PM
Thanks for your effort!

Some true arguments there.
Thank you for not quoting the whole post!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 16, 2020, 01:29:06 PM
Thank you for not quoting the whole post!
Basic DDF rule
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 16, 2020, 03:47:38 PM
Inspectors now stopping children asking them which school theyíre from & if their school is open !!!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 16, 2020, 04:16:56 PM
Yet people are still justifying and saying all this is needed and normal.   Hashem yiracheim
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 16, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
Yet people are still justifying and saying all this is needed and normal.   Hashem yiracheim

Really? Show me.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Euclid on October 16, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
Yet people are still justifying and saying all this is needed and normal.   Hashem yiracheim
What people are saying is that all this was predictable and avoidable.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 16, 2020, 04:41:49 PM
Really? Show me.

The silence from everyone outside the frum community is deafening
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 16, 2020, 04:46:06 PM
The silence from everyone outside the frum community is deafening

Is it, really? What is it supposed to sound like? 3000 years and we're still waiting for other people to stick up for us?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 16, 2020, 05:13:17 PM
Inspectors now stopping children asking them which school theyíre from & if their school is open !!!
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Hjay on October 16, 2020, 05:17:53 PM

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 16, 2020, 05:29:32 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 16, 2020, 05:32:55 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 18, 2020, 10:47:37 AM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/part-of-the-brooklyn-covid-19-uptick-traces-to-deal-n-j-11603022400
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 18, 2020, 10:56:55 AM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/part-of-the-brooklyn-covid-19-uptick-traces-to-deal-n-j-11603022400
I heard itís really popping in the Syrian community
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 18, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
I heard itís really popping in the Syrian community
Yet everyone is focusing on the chassidim
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 18, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
Yet everyone is focusing on the chassidim

When we dress to stick out, we tend to stick out. Just the facts of life.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 18, 2020, 11:04:34 AM
Yet everyone is focusing on the chassidim
They are a better looking and more visible target
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 18, 2020, 11:07:21 AM
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/part-of-the-brooklyn-covid-19-uptick-traces-to-deal-n-j-11603022400

Paywalled. Is this based on genetic analysis?

Also, can the Syrians even be considered ďultra-OrthodoxĒ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 18, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
True. A guy named Jack wearing a sharp suit heading a clothing retailer doesnít make as easy a target.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: maxie m on October 18, 2020, 11:11:38 AM

Also, can the Syrians even be considered ďultra-OrthodoxĒ?
speak for yourself
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: gozalim on October 18, 2020, 11:11:49 AM
I heard itís really popping in the Syrian community
from wsj?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 18, 2020, 11:12:22 AM
Paywalled. Is this based on genetic analysis?

Also, can the Syrians even be considered ďultra-OrthodoxĒ?
Here you go.

Part of the Brooklyn Covid-19 Uptick Traces to Deal, N.J.
Health officials have traced outbreaks in two neighborhoods to end-of-summer socializing by a close-knit Sephardic Jewish community at the Jersey Shore

The Midwood neighborhood of Brooklyn, N.Y., has a significant number of Sephardic families.
The Midwood neighborhood of Brooklyn, N.Y., has a significant number of Sephardic families.
By Paul Berger
Oct. 18, 2020 8:00 am ET
The coronavirus cases started ticking up in July among a tightknit community of Sephardic Jews summering at the Jersey Shore.

By October, the cases had contributed to the virusís spread 60 miles north in Brooklyn, N.Y., where health officials scrambled to prevent a second wave of infection.

Recent attention regarding the resurgence of the virus in New York City and its suburbs has focused on ultra-Orthodox communities with roots in Eastern Europe, who have chafed at restrictions imposed by Mayor Bill de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo. Such communities are typified by large families of seven or eight children living in multifamily homes and apartments where Yiddish is often the first language spoken.

The Sephardic families of Gravesend and Midwood in Brooklyn generally have fewer children and tend to live in single-family homes where English is the first language. They are largely doctors, lawyers and businesspeople with a background in countries such as Syria and typically one foot planted firmly in the secular world.

Sephardic community leaders said they have urged mask-wearing, social distancing and vigilance since the start of the virus outbreak. But they said pandemic fatigue, some apathy and mistrust, as well as a culture built around large communal events, proved fertile ground for the virusís spread.

The community is thought to number between 50,000 and 70,000 people and is concentrated in Gravesend and Midwood, in a southern swath of the borough 2 miles north of Coney Island. When Covid-19 first arrived in New York City early this year it swept through the community, killing almost 100 people in a couple of months, according to communal officials.

Frequent large gatherings with hundreds of guests are common for life events and Jewish holidays and help create a sense that everyone knows everybody else. ĒIt hit home every time somebody got ill or passed away,Ē said Jack Aini, president of Sephardic Bikur Holim, a social-services agency based in Gravesend.

Many Sephardic families spend their summers at second homes or with relatives in and around the shore town of Deal, N.J., where a small Sephardic community lives year-round. As New York City shut down in March and April, many families left Brooklyn to isolate near the Jersey Shore, often in large homes with spacious yards.

Communal officials set up a WhatsApp group that included about 100 doctors to monitor for suspected and confirmed cases in Brooklyn and New Jersey and to share information. They said people largely heeded health guidance on social distancing and by early summer Covid-19 cases had almost disappeared.

Then, on July 10, an umbrella organization for schools and religious groups, the Sephardic Community Alliance, circulated a letter from the doctors group warning of an uptick in cases. Some were in Brooklyn, but most were in the Deal area. The doctors urged people to heed health advice and to wear masks whenever social distancing wasnít possible.

At that time in New Jersey, beaches up and down the shore were packed. Outdoor gatherings of up to 500 people were allowed by Gov. Phil Murphy. After a three-week religious period that prohibited Jewish celebrations ended in late July, Sephardic celebrations in and around Deal took off.

Sephardic couples had scaled down weddings throughout the pandemic, sometimes limiting guests only to close family, with everyone else attending via Zoom, said Mr. Aini, the Bikur Holim president. Though that tradition continued through the summer, he said, once outdoor restrictions were eased by the state, some people felt comfortable inviting more guests to outdoor events held under a canopy. By late August, people began to test positive and were attributing it to large events and gatherings, Mr. Aini said.

On Sept. 4, the Sephardic Community Alliance released a statement from the community doctors warning there had been more than 100 Covid-19 infections in Deal in the previous week alone, mostly among younger people whose symptoms were mild.

ďWhat we are finding even more concerning,Ē the doctorsí statement said, ďis that people with Covid-19 symptoms have been refusing to get tested, while those exposed to Covid-19 have not been isolating, knowingly putting others at risk.Ē

The Sephardic community leans conservative politically. Some communal officials felt that messages disseminated across conservative news outlets and social media, including by President Trump, played down the threat of the virus and the need to wear masks, leading some people to not take it seriously. To dispel myths circulating at the time, the doctors added that the virus hadnít mutated into a milder strain and that the community hadnít developed herd immunity.

New Jersey health officials said they arenít aware of such a large number of cases in the Deal area at that time, possibly because of the way such cases are tracked. If a person being tested in New Jersey provides a home address in New York, officials said, that test would be logged as a New York case.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

What is the status of the virus in your area? Are you satisfied with the response from local officials? Why or why not? Join the conversation below.
Dr. Edward Lifshitz, medical director of the Communicable Disease Service for New Jerseyís health department, said that his department has communicated with New York City officials regarding cases that the city believes originated in Deal. A spokesman for New York Cityís health department said some Brooklyn cases have been linked to New Jersey and that the department collaborates with neighboring health officials when there are known exposures.

Members of the Sephardic community started moving back to New York City around Labor Day and prepared for a return to school and Jewish holidays that began with the Jewish New Year on Sept. 18.

Mr. Aini said that because people would start mixing with families over the holidays, they were encouraged to get tested, even if they didnít present symptoms. The result was a wave of positive tests.

By the end of September, two ZIP Codes with large Sephardic communities had the highest Covid positivity rates in the city, of 6.9% and 5.6%, helping, along with ultra-Orthodox communities nearby, to push the citywide average above 3% for the first time. On Oct. 2, the doctors released a statement that during the previous three days more than 50 community members in Deal, Manhattan and Brooklyn had been hospitalized and two had died.

Community leaders say some Sephardic schools and synagogues implemented stricter Covid-19 safeguards than the city and state required. Some synagogues moved services outdoors, while some yeshivas set up sneeze guards at desks and hired or trained staff for Covid-19 cleaning and contact tracing.

When city and state officials moved to close schools and essential businesses in Sephardic neighborhoods in October, there was a feeling in the community that they were being singled out despite their efforts at combating the virus. Some drew an unflattering comparison between the lawlessness they perceived as being permitted during the Black Lives Matter protests earlier this year and what they saw as the governmentís heavy-handed actions against their community.

Community leaders worked with health officials to set up coronavirus testing sites in Brooklyn and New Jersey. They urged people to get tested. Dr. David Sitt, a volunteer within the community who has helped organize the testing effort, said tests conducted the week of Oct. 5 on 3,200 people in the Deal and Brooklyn areas returned a positivity rate of around 3%.

Meanwhile, Mr. Aini released a statement on Oct. 9 saying beliefs that government actions were a political stunt or evidence of anti-Semitic bias were dangerous because they caused people to be less vigilant.

ďOver the course of the summer, we let our guard down and thought that we were all fine, but now we find ourselves once again in the midst of a pandemic crisis,Ē he said. ďThere is absolutely no good reason to not take proper precautions.Ē

óEmma Tucker contributed to this article.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:23 AM
Paywalled. Is this based on genetic analysis?

Also, can the Syrians even be considered ďultra-OrthodoxĒ?
You can use archive.is for WSJ and NYT paywalls
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Toasted on October 18, 2020, 11:58:21 AM
You can use archive.is for WSJ and NYT paywalls
Most useful post in this whole board 😂.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: zh cohen on October 18, 2020, 12:17:20 PM
You can use archive.is for WSJ and NYT paywalls

Archive.is is blocked by a lot of filters
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on October 18, 2020, 01:49:27 PM
I somehow benefited from the flip side of this. My son's UPK program - in an orange zone - was initially closed, while the 3yo program was open as daycare. They initially classified UPK as school, not daycare, I guess. Now they reversed course and decided UPK can open as long as it's not in the same building as K-8 (which this program is not).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on October 18, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
I somehow benefited from the flip side of this. My son's UPK program - in an orange zone - was initially closed, while the 3yo program was open as daycare. They initially classified UPK as school, not daycare, I guess. Now they reversed course and decided UPK can open as long as it's not in the same building as K-8 (which this program is not).
These arbitrary rules are ridiculous.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 18, 2020, 03:53:05 PM
speak for yourself

No offense intended. I personally donít care to be called Ultra-Orthodox though I certainly fit the bill on paper, itís just an arbitrary label to me.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on October 18, 2020, 10:00:14 PM
Does anyone know if it is legal according to the letter of the current law for schools in red-zone zip codes to open in other neighborhoods that are not red or orange?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 18, 2020, 10:01:56 PM
Does anyone know if it is legal according to the letter of the current law for schools in red-zone zip codes to open in other neighborhoods that are not red or orange?
as long as itís not an illegal gathering it should be fine.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 18, 2020, 10:02:55 PM
Cuomo has a magic pen, better don't ask such questions otherwise he will use his pen
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 18, 2020, 10:21:17 PM
Does anyone know if it is legal according to the letter of the current law for schools in red-zone zip codes to open in other neighborhoods that are not red or orange?

What if the school is in the red zone but every single student in said school lives outside of the red zone, (not even in yellow) can they open in the zone they kids live in?

I can neither confirm nor deny whether this is a hypothetical question.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on October 18, 2020, 10:31:27 PM
I checked and found the text of the executive order (https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-20268-continuing-temporary-suspension-and-modification-laws-relating-disaster-emergency), which doesn't appear to have been written by a big lamdan.

The relevant passage says:

Based upon the severity of the cluster activity, the Department of Health shall adopt in the most severe, or ďred zones,Ē the following mitigation measures ... the local Department of Health shall direct closure of all schools for in-person instruction, except as otherwise provided in Executive Order.

It seems clear that the intent is to say that all schools located in red zones must be closed at this time. But if the school "reopens" in another location that's not a red zone, is that actually a violation of the spirit or letter of the executive order?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 18, 2020, 10:45:25 PM
What if the school is in the red zone but every single student in said school lives outside of the red zone, (not even in yellow) can they open in the zone they kids live in?

I can neither confirm nor deny whether this is a hypothetical question.

Twister: the official game of 2020.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 18, 2020, 11:19:18 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1911283/listen-to-it-governor-cuomo-holds-phone-conference-with-jewish-leaders.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: joey89 on October 19, 2020, 01:04:10 AM
What if the school is in the red zone but every single student in said school lives outside of the red zone, (not even in yellow) can they open in the zone they kids live in?

I can neither confirm nor deny whether this is a hypothetical question.

Didnít they just move classes into the zone of the students residence?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 19, 2020, 01:26:30 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 20, 2020, 08:32:34 PM
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-de-blasio-apology-orthodox-20201020-h6yl6xovcbhepknx5tmajar3fu-story.html

https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/de-blasio-apologizes-to-ultra-orthodox-leaders-over-covid-19/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 21, 2020, 08:11:20 AM
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-de-blasio-apology-orthodox-20201020-h6yl6xovcbhepknx5tmajar3fu-story.html

https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/de-blasio-apologizes-to-ultra-orthodox-leaders-over-covid-19/
Give credit where credit is due.  I'm shocked he apologized for this whole fiasco
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 21, 2020, 09:35:56 AM
Give credit where credit is due.  I'm shocked he apologized for this whole fiasco

His ďapologyĒ is him taking credit for the ďresetĒ, because even with his big ego he realizes that if it continues to escalate heíll lose. At the end of the day his executive powers are limited and if he keeps fighting heíll look stupid.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on October 21, 2020, 09:42:15 AM
His ďapologyĒ is him taking credit for the ďresetĒ, because even with his big ego he realizes that if it continues to escalate heíll lose. At the end of the day his executive powers are limited and if he keeps fighting heíll look stupid.
This is about ad close as you will get from a politician.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: drosenberg88429 on October 21, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
Give credit where credit is due.  I'm shocked he apologized for this whole fiasco

DeBlasio by personality is capable of apologizing. Cuomo, like Trump, is not.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 21, 2020, 10:31:56 AM
His ďapologyĒ is him taking credit for the ďresetĒ, because even with his big ego he realizes that if it continues to escalate heíll lose. At the end of the day his executive powers are limited and if he keeps fighting heíll look stupid.

Cuomo is still escalating. How far can he go? Will he write a book about his leadership of the Jewish community?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Mordyk on October 21, 2020, 10:36:28 AM
His ďapologyĒ is him taking credit for the ďresetĒ, because even with his big ego he realizes that if it continues to escalate heíll lose. At the end of the day his executive powers are limited and if he keeps fighting heíll look stupid.
still takes courage to do that publicly
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 21, 2020, 10:55:13 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFSRPHXj/IMG-20201021-WA0006.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v1KfTcRz)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 21, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1912116/after-deblasio-apologizes-and-calls-for-reset-inspectors-flooding-boro-park-and-flatbush-like-never-before-photos.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Kobe Bryant on October 21, 2020, 12:05:08 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/10/21/red-zone-kosher-cafe-going-viral-after-being-cited-by-city-for-open-doors/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 21, 2020, 01:19:35 PM
https://vosizneias.com/2020/10/21/red-zone-kosher-cafe-going-viral-after-being-cited-by-city-for-open-doors/
The DOH couldnít even give a straight answer as to the rules yet theyíre ticketing stores for it!! Beyond shameful whatís been going on the last week. All these various agencies arenít coordinating with each other. A store can be harassed numerous times a day between all the different agencies. And each with their own version of the rules. What did all these roaches do before they were directed to harass jewish stores ?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 21, 2020, 08:02:31 PM
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-de-blasio-apology-orthodox-20201020-h6yl6xovcbhepknx5tmajar3fu-story.html

https://nypost.com/2020/10/20/de-blasio-apologizes-to-ultra-orthodox-leaders-over-covid-19/
https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/gov-cuomo-declines-apology-to-orthodox-jews-over-covid-19-lockdown/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 21, 2020, 08:11:32 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/gov-cuomo-declines-apology-to-orthodox-jews-over-covid-19-lockdown/

"Iím sorry that we had to close your businesses which may mean you lose your business."

He doesn't sound sorry at all.  Its heartbreaking for all these people and he could care less.

Anyway, we don't need his apologies, we just need him to leave us alone.

Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 21, 2020, 08:11:47 PM
The DOH couldnít even give a straight answer as to the rules yet theyíre ticketing stores for it!! Beyond shameful whatís been going on the last week. All these various agencies arenít coordinating with each other. A store can be harassed numerous times a day between all the different agencies. And each with their own version of the rules. What did all these roaches do before they were directed to harass jewish stores ?
Ana then BDB threatens if the state doesn't bail him out he might lay off 20k employees
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 21, 2020, 08:20:41 PM
https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/gov-cuomo-declines-apology-to-orthodox-jews-over-covid-19-lockdown/

BDB didn't really apologize. He's the parent in the divorce who's playing nice to get the kid to take his side.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: stooges44 on October 21, 2020, 08:27:44 PM
The DOH couldnít even give a straight answer as to the rules yet theyíre ticketing stores for it!! Beyond shameful whatís been going on the last week. All these various agencies arenít coordinating with each other. A store can be harassed numerous times a day between all the different agencies. And each with their own version of the rules. What did all these roaches do before they were directed to harass jewish stores ?

They harassed jewish contractors
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 21, 2020, 08:31:16 PM
They harassed jewish contractors
Now is the time to build whatever you want, wherever you want, however you want.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 21, 2020, 08:32:32 PM
BDB didn't really apologize. He's the parent in the divorce who's playing nice to get the kid to take his side.
He occupies his final public office. Just for the record? I don't think so. I think he's apologetic by nature. Getting squashed by Cuomo constantly doesn't builds his ego either. 
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 21, 2020, 08:34:09 PM
Now is the time to build whatever you want, wherever you want, however you want.
Except on 13th ave and Lee ave.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 21, 2020, 08:35:27 PM
He occupies his final public office. Just for the record? I don't think so. I think he's apologetic by nature. Getting squashed by Cuomo constantly doesn't builds his ego either.

You really think that he thinks this is his last public office? What if his spat with Cuomo has given him ideas about primary-ing him? Just because we all know it ain't gonna happen, doesn't mean BDB won't try. He thought he had a legit chance at POTUS.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 21, 2020, 08:39:45 PM
What if his spat with Cuomo has given him ideas about primary-ing him?
BDB: ďI hereby announce Iím running for governorĒ
Cuomo: ďNo youíre notĒ
BDB: ďSorry daddyĒ (runs & hides)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: EliJelly on October 21, 2020, 08:40:27 PM
You really think that he thinks this is his last public office? What if his spat with Cuomo has given him ideas about primary-ing him? Just because we all know it ain't gonna happen, doesn't mean BDB won't try. He thought he had a legit chance at POTUS.
Na he's beyond that stage already. His wife just withdraw herself from contesting for Brooklyn borough president because of her husband's bad stature.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 21, 2020, 08:46:23 PM
Na he's beyond that stage already. His wife just withdraw herself from contesting for Brooklyn borough president because of her husband's bad stature.

Even Spitzer thought he was going to get back in the game.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 22, 2020, 11:01:24 AM
Harassment began bright & early today. The roaches were on the streets at 7:30 already.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 22, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
Harassment began bright & early today. The roaches were on the streets at 7:30 already.

Keeping on calling them roaches is an insult to the roach community  ;D.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on October 22, 2020, 11:05:34 AM
Harassment began bright & early today. The roaches were on the streets at 7:30 already.

Vasikin minyanim are about to get super popular.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on October 22, 2020, 11:25:43 AM
Vasikin minyanim are about to get super popular.

Even after the clock changes in a week and davening begins before 6?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: etech0 on October 22, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Even after the clock changes in a week and davening begins before 6?
all those inspectors need to daven somewhere before they start work at 7:30
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 25, 2020, 11:06:34 AM
My daughter's school will B"H reopen tomorrow for in-person sessions.  The e-mail from the school said, in part, "If your daughter tested positive after July 28, and finished her quarantine, the DOH has now informed us that we can accept those results  in lieu of a current negative result." 

So they're accepting assumed antibodies.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 25, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
My daughter's school will B"H reopen tomorrow for in-person sessions.  The e-mail from the school said, in part, "If your daughter tested positive after July 28, and finished her quarantine, the DOH has now informed us that we can accept those results  in lieu of a current negative result." 

So they're accepting assumed antibodies.
No theyíre not, theyíre accepting the CDC guidance that there is no need to get tested for 90 days after your positive test.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 25, 2020, 04:07:29 PM
No theyíre not, theyíre accepting the CDC guidance that there is no need to get tested for 90 days after your positive test.
What is that guidance based on?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 25, 2020, 05:33:58 PM
What is that guidance based on?
That reinfection is nearly impossible within 90 days.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: biobook on October 25, 2020, 06:11:39 PM
What is that guidance based on?
Back in the summer they suggested that immunity lasted at least 3 months after the first infection, based on the first confirmed reinfection to sars-cov-2 and based on reinfections of other coronaviruses.  So unlikely the girls would show a second positive PCR test for the virus in that time period (no matter what their antibody level is).  And if they did have a positive PCR in this time period, it is most likely due to viral particles that are not infectious.

More details and references:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

News article:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/the-cdc-suggests-covid-19-immunity-lasts-for-three-months/ar-BB17YIoL
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 25, 2020, 07:57:43 PM

See the date
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 25, 2020, 08:21:03 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 25, 2020, 09:23:17 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 25, 2020, 09:55:09 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: David R on October 26, 2020, 12:08:46 AM
After a three-week religious period that prohibited Jewish celebrations ended in late July, Sephardic celebrations in and around Deal took off.
OT, but I'm curious if this is accurate.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: mgarfin on October 28, 2020, 09:13:23 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 29, 2020, 06:04:07 PM
https://covidactnow.org/us/ny?s=1216298

It looks like Brooklyn is number 34 on the list with a fraction of the numbers of the worst counties.


(https://i.postimg.cc/pLBkh8x1/86-B1-FFC8-6-F09-414-E-994-D-49-ACC3805123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCP10CCm)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 29, 2020, 06:51:00 PM
https://covidactnow.org/us/ny?s=1216298

It looks like Brooklyn is number 34 on the list with a fraction of the numbers of the worst counties.


(https://i.postimg.cc/pLBkh8x1/86-B1-FFC8-6-F09-414-E-994-D-49-ACC3805123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCP10CCm)

Yes, but they still won't release the data for the cluster areas that are still red zone.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on October 29, 2020, 08:40:50 PM
Yes, but they still won't release the data for the cluster areas that are still red zone.
Cluster areas are artificial constructs. You could take it down to the house level and find a duplex that  has 100% positivity.

You have counties in western NY with over 60 cases per 100,000 and Brooklyn comes in at under 8 per 100,000. Completely indefensible.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bv6cVnPh/681-FDD52-FCA1-4510-80-CC-DC3-C19-BC0-C21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKzDyG9m)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgwvsbG6/A6-AEC137-EFE8-4-A9-F-AAF6-CCA3859-F8-E3-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WdFZbtMT)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 29, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
Cluster areas are artificial constructs. You could take it down to the house level and find a duplex that  has 100% positivity.

You have counties in western NY with over 60 cases per 100,000 and Brooklyn comes in at under 8 per 100,000. Completely indefensible.


I'm with you. I totally agree. But unfortunately the lockdown in the (predominantly Jewish) red zones wont be lifted until some bogus cluster level metric is met. 

In the meantime, those counties you pointed out are free to go about their business.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Deal Guy on October 30, 2020, 01:40:09 AM
Tuesday is Agudah's appeal.

Watch, come Monday or Tuesday, suddenly things open up...
of course they will say its because the numbers dropped.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 30, 2020, 03:09:48 PM
Now letting schools reopen ??
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 30, 2020, 03:14:15 PM
Now letting schools reopen ??
Everyone needs testing prior, & weekly surveillance testing.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 30, 2020, 03:14:58 PM
Everyone needs testing prior
Page out of NJ's book
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Boruch Parnes on October 30, 2020, 03:16:23 PM
The lawsuits scared him off?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 30, 2020, 03:18:24 PM
Now letting schools reopen ??

Source?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 30, 2020, 03:19:09 PM
Everyone needs testing prior, & weekly surveillance testing.

Beginning at what age is testing required?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on October 30, 2020, 03:24:36 PM
Source?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yehuda57 on October 30, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
The lawsuits scared him off?

I think it's more this


Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 30, 2020, 04:41:46 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 30, 2020, 04:44:22 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 30, 2020, 04:46:27 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: SSLPhD on October 30, 2020, 05:07:40 PM
Everyone needs testing prior, & weekly surveillance testing.
I think it's 20% of students, teachers, and staff per week after initial screen.  Not all the kids every week.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on October 30, 2020, 05:13:14 PM

Can schools outside red/orange zones get free test kits as well?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 30, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
Tuesday is Agudah's appeal.

Watch, come Monday or Tuesday, suddenly things open up...
of course they will say its because the numbers dropped.
Faster than you expected.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Tomorrow on October 30, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Can schools outside red/orange zones get free test kits as well?
Yellow zones has the 20% testing already AFAIK.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Afrages6 on October 30, 2020, 05:18:41 PM
I think it's 20% of students, teachers, and staff per week after initial screen.  Not all the kids every week.
25 percent.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: grodnoking on October 31, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
Has anyone seen my goalposts? They are paramount to the health of all New Yorkers! They were last seen being moved in Albany.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on October 31, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on October 31, 2020, 10:22:40 PM

So then the state is supposedly  using data maintained by NYC. Otherwise, this map a few posts up is made up if there's no data backing it.

I think it's more this



Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on November 07, 2020, 07:52:11 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 07, 2020, 10:51:29 PM

Nope. Now that Biden has been declared the winner COVID is over. History.

At least 1 good thing so far came out of his winning ;).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on November 08, 2020, 11:01:28 AM
Nope. Now that Biden has been declared the winner COVID is over. History.

At least 1 good thing so far came out of his winning ;).
I love how somehow both narratives are carried at the same time. Don't elect Biden bc he's going to institute federal mask mandates and lockdowns. If Biden is elected we'll see that the D's were politicizing Covid all along, and it'll disapper. ::)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
I love how somehow both narratives are carried at the same time. Don't elect Biden bc he's going to institute federal mask mandates and lockdowns. If Biden is elected we'll see that the D's were politicizing Covid all along, and it'll disapper. ::)

Come on, it was a joke. I love how some ppl can't take one.

I personally don't care about mask mandates, already wear one all the time anyway. I doubt lockdowns can or will happen at a federal level. And Ds do politicize COVID (very obviously), but even so it unfortunately won't be disappearing anytime soon (although we all wish it would).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on November 08, 2020, 11:16:17 AM
I love how somehow both narratives are carried at the same time. Don't elect Biden bc he's going to institute federal mask mandates and lockdowns. If Biden is elected we'll see that the D's were politicizing Covid all along, and it'll disapper. ::)

Both have a tzad hashaveh, Biden doesnít actually have a handle on COVID and his administration might very well bungle their response.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on November 08, 2020, 11:18:17 AM
Come on, it was a joke. I love how some ppl can't take one.

I personally don't care about mask mandates, already wear one all the time anyway. I doubt lockdowns can or will happen at a federal level. And Ds do politicize COVID (very obviously), but even so it unfortunately won't be disappearing anytime soon (although we all wish it would).
I'm quoting you because that's the most recent time I saw it. But you better believe there are many who are saying it seriously.

Both have a tzad hashaveh, Biden doesnít actually have a handle on COVID and his administration might very well bungle their response.
Gimme a break. The tzad hashaveh is that they're both things said by people who don't take Covid seriously.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 11:52:01 AM
Gimme a break. The tzad hashaveh is that they're both things said by people who don't take Covid seriously.

I hope you don't believe that Biden has some magical plan to make COVID disappear. Unfortunately, its here to stay until an effective vaccine is in play.

He might try this and that and the other to try to show he's doing something, anything, but it will very likely be a bungled response as @AsherO said  (I'd like to say for sure will be, but will give the benefit of the doubt).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: aygart on November 08, 2020, 11:53:44 AM
I hope you don't believe that Biden has some magical plan to make COVID disappear. Unfortunately, its here to stay until an effective vaccine is in play.

He might try this and that and the other to try to show he's doing something, anything, but it will very likely be a bungled response as @AsherO said  (I'd like to say for sure will be, but will give the benefit of the doubt).
There is nothing anyone could do about it and the response will be bungled. Lol
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Euclid on November 08, 2020, 11:56:48 AM
There is nothing anyone could do about it and the response will be bungled. Lol
#ThrowingOurHandsUpSinceMarch2020
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on November 08, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Gimme a break. The tzad hashaveh is that they're both things said by people who don't take Covid seriously.

The common theme is that these people believe that media = reality. If the media sells a narrative of lockdown vs normal, then there can't be anything in between. If the media says Covid is overblown or is going to kill us all, then everyone must buy in to one of those extreme opinions. And if the media stops talking about Covid for a few days because there are more time-sensitive issues to report on, then Covid must be over.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on November 08, 2020, 12:02:40 PM
#ThrowingOurHandsUpSinceMarch2020

Fatalism, a part of Orthodox Judaism since 2020. Pick yours up at your local mikvah.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on November 08, 2020, 12:08:46 PM
I hope you don't believe that Biden has some magical plan to make COVID disappear. Unfortunately, its here to stay until an effective vaccine is in play.

He might try this and that and the other to try to show he's doing something, anything, but it will very likely be a bungled response as @AsherO said  (I'd like to say for sure will be, but will give the benefit of the doubt).
I do not believe that. But it would be hard to do much worse than Trump. And to be clear, I don't think our country's success or failure is 100% on the president - there have been failure at every level, including by D controlled states and cities. But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on November 08, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.
This probably depends on the state. Here in NY itís all on Cuomo. He has the final say, and heís very adamant & vocal about it.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 12:27:14 PM
But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.

Even for the high number of deaths in NYS and specifically NYC? Sorry but that's completely on Cuomo and De Blasio as are the obnoxious recent uncalled for red zone business which did nothing concrete. Plus lots of other of their bungled responses that were at best worthless and at worst fatal.

Just to bring this thread back on track...
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on November 08, 2020, 12:41:11 PM
This probably depends on the state. Here in NY itís all on Cuomo. He has the final say, and heís very adamant & vocal about it.
Even for the high number of deaths in NYS and specifically NYC? Sorry but that's completely on Cuomo and De Blasio as are the obnoxious recent uncalled for red zone business which did nothing concrete. Plus lots of other of their bungled responses that were at best worthless and at worst fatal.

Just to bring this thread back on track...
I don't mean to any specific individual - obviously a person in state/city x is most affected by the leadership in state/city x. But in aggregate, the single individual with the highest impact on the country as a whole - all 300+ million people - is the president. As far as NY, yes Cuomo ( and to a lesser extent BDB) had the biggest impact. And while I thing they bungled many things, I strongly believe that if they'd taken the administrations approach throughout, it would have been much worse from a medical perspective (not getting into the medical-economics trade-off). There exists a middle ground - a whole host of things that could have been done differently from either Trump's way or Cuomo's way.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
There exists a middle ground - a whole host of things that could have been done differently from either Trump's way or Cuomo's way.

Which we have no way of knowing there would be a better outcome with. Its not like this was some kind of clinical trial with a control group and all.

Basically everything was (and still pretty much is) being made up as we went along and there's no way to prove a different outcome had this or that or the other been done differently.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 01:57:58 PM
Which we have no way of knowing there would be a better outcome with. Its not like this was some kind of clinical trial with a control group and all.

Basically everything was (and still pretty much is) being made up as we went along and there's no way to prove a different outcome had this or that or the other been done differently.
Fortunately, we have every other country in the world to compare ourselves to. While there are certainly key differences in the makeup and circumstances of each country, we can use the available data and metrics to see what succeeded and what failed.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 02:47:43 PM
Fortunately, we have every other country in the world to compare ourselves to. While there are certainly key differences in the makeup and circumstances of each country, we can use the available data and metrics to see what succeeded and what failed.

Comparing to other countries is not the same as a clinical trial where all other factors would be identical except the one variable that you're looking to see if it would cause another outcome.

For that matter you don't have to compare to other countries. You can just compare responses between states. Probably already discussed many many times - FL and NY which have similar population size but FL likely has many more elderly. FL by now has 50% more reported cases than NY but almost half the amount of deaths. The data says it all for those who like to harp on data.

But again, I reiterate that short of having all the same factors in place and then implementing 2 different plans its really not possible to know.

In the meantime, mask wearing, hand washing, SD (and online shopping ;)) it is.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 02:58:33 PM
Comparing to other countries is not the same as a clinical trial where all other factors would be identical except the one variable that you're looking to see if it would cause another outcome.

For that matter you don't have to compare to other countries. You can just compare responses between states. Probably already discussed many many times - FL and NY which have similar population size but FL likely has many more elderly. FL by now has 50% more reported cases than NY but almost half the amount of deaths. The data says it all for those who like to harp on data.

But again, I reiterate that short of having all the same factors in place and then implementing 2 different plans its really not possible to know.

Denmark vs. Sweden is as close as youíre going to get to a clinical trial. Florida and NY are decent comparisons, but considering they both have horrific numbers of deaths I wouldnít want to emulate either of them.

In the meantime, mask wearing, hand washing, SD (and online shopping ;)) it is.
Exactly
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on November 08, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on November 08, 2020, 03:17:20 PM
I do not believe that. But it would be hard to do much worse than Trump. And to be clear, I don't think our country's success or failure is 100% on the president - there have been failure at every level, including by D controlled states and cities. But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.

These are your opinions to which youíre certainly entitled, others will disagree. For instance, I donít think a D administration (e.g. Obama/Biden and their task force) would have Operation Warp Speed underway with 5 domestically developed vaccine candidates in Phase III clinical trials by August and 2-3 of those expected to to pass regulatory approval by the end of the year with broad availability to all Americans within 1H21.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on November 08, 2020, 03:37:35 PM
Probably already discussed many many times - FL and NY which have similar population size but FL likely has many more elderly. FL by now has 50% more reported cases than NY but almost half the amount of deaths. The data says it all for those who like to harp on data.
Florida and NY are decent comparisons

Leaving the rest of this argument aside, NY vs FL is a horrible comparison, and this has been discussed many, many times. The bulk of NY's deaths happened when there was minimal testing capabilities, very bad testing accuracy, and no treatment protocol. The first factor led to a high death rate, the second to even lower cases (higher death rate) and missed cases (delayed treatment), and the third to mistreatment and ensuing deaths. FL got hit later, when there were more tests, better tests, and better treatment. In short, the data says nothing without context, and the context says you can't compare FL and NY.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: skyguy918 on November 08, 2020, 03:55:15 PM
These are your opinions to which youíre certainly entitled, others will disagree. For instance, I donít think a D administration (e.g. Obama/Biden and their task force) would have Operation Warp Speed underway with 5 domestically developed vaccine candidates in Phase III clinical trials by August and 2-3 of those expected to to pass regulatory approval by the end of the year with broad availability to all Americans within 1H21.
So which single individual would you say shoulders more responsibility for handling of covid on the country as a whole than the president?

I hear your point about vaccines. I personally think that a D administration would have prioritized it as well, though likely not to the red-tape-cutting extent that Trump did. And obviously I acknowledge that all of these things are opinions.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
So which single individual would you say shoulders more responsibility for handling of covid on the country as a whole than the president?

Why does there need to be a single person to point your finger at?

And again, we have zero way of knowing if someone else thrown into this whole unknown virus situation would have done any better.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 04:26:03 PM
Why does there need to be a single person to point your finger at?

And again, we have zero way of knowing if someone else thrown into this whole unknown virus situation would have done any better.
-1

Not knowing definitively how someone else would have performed is not the same thing as ďwe have zero way of knowing.Ē
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
Leaving the rest of this argument aside, NY vs FL is a horrible comparison, and this has been discussed many, many times. The bulk of NY's deaths happened when there was minimal testing capabilities, very bad testing accuracy, and no treatment protocol. The first factor led to a high death rate, the second to even lower cases (higher death rate) and missed cases (delayed treatment), and the third to mistreatment and ensuing deaths. FL got hit later, when there were more tests, better tests, and better treatment. In short, the data says nothing without context, and the context says you can't compare FL and NY.

I totally agree with you that you can't really compare them which just drives home my point that unless something is set up as a clinical trial with identical factors there is no use comparing or thinking perhaps we'd have a different outcome if xyz were done. But since the Denmark to Sweden comparison was brought up, I mentioned NY to FL.

Bottom line again is that we really cannot and will never know because we can't rewind the time and have a do over.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 04:35:37 PM
-1

Not knowing definitively how someone else would have performed is not the same thing as ďwe have zero way of knowing.Ē

Sorry but both are the same to me.

And still doesn't answer why there needs to be someone to point your finger at. I don't know how many ppl in the world are getting up to applaud their leaders responses to COVID. Either because the death rate is too high or the economy is in the grave or both. Nobody is happy with the virus and not too many leaders can be graded A+ on their response.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on November 08, 2020, 04:52:41 PM
-1

Not knowing definitively how someone else would have performed is not the same thing as ďwe have zero way of knowing.Ē
We know definitively that Biden would not have stopped travel from China.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: AsherO on November 08, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
So which single individual would you say shoulders more responsibility for handling of covid on the country as a whole than the president?

I hear your point about vaccines. I personally think that a D administration would have prioritized it as well, though likely not to the red-tape-cutting extent that Trump did. And obviously I acknowledge that all of these things are opinions.

I hope Biden to a much higher standard than Trump because:
1. He campaigned on the basis that COVID deaths were all Trumpís fault
2. He has the advantage of being able to blame Trump for all that is wrong with COVID while taking credit for whatever the Trump administration put in place.
3. When COVID hit in 1Q2020 everyone was equally clueless about COVID, gradually we learned more and got a better handle on things. So Biden and his team have the advantage of coming prepared to a situation that has already developed where we have lots more awareness.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Dawie on November 08, 2020, 07:34:06 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 07:38:44 PM
Sorry but both are the same to me.

And still doesn't answer why there needs to be someone to point your finger at. I don't know how many ppl in the world are getting up to applaud their leaders responses to COVID. Either because the death rate is too high or the economy is in the grave or both. Nobody is happy with the virus and not too many leaders can be graded A+ on their response.
Speak to Danish citizens. Theyíre thrilled with their governmentís capable and excellent response, both on COVID-19 spread and the economy.
We know definitively that Biden would not have stopped travel from China.
There is definitely truth to the fact that Biden said Trump shouldnít implement the China travel ban at the time. To be fair, you donít know that he wouldnít have done it, only that he condemned it in response to Trump implementing it, as a way of scoring political points. But then, I am not saying Biden would have handled it well, only that Trump most certainly did not.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 07:44:24 PM


See the post at the top of this page by @yesitsme
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on November 08, 2020, 07:47:44 PM
See the post at the top of this page by @yesitsme
Top of page depends on post per page setting
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 07:49:02 PM
Speak to Danish citizens. Theyíre thrilled with their governmentís capable and excellent response, both on COVID-19 spread and the economy.

That's why I didn't say "nobody", I said I don't know how many because I knew someone would mention the Danish. What percentage of the world population are they? I'm just saying there aren't too many and you'd be hard pressed not to agree. Majority of the world population are not thrilled with the response to COVID-19.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yesitsme on November 08, 2020, 07:50:05 PM
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 07:50:30 PM
Top of page depends on post per page setting

Sorry, that's right.

So see about 10 posts prior :).
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 07:59:14 PM
I hold Biden to a much higher standard than Trump because:
1. He campaigned on the basis that COVID deaths were all Trumpís fault
2. He has the advantage of being able to blame Trump for all that is wrong with COVID while taking credit for whatever the Trump administration put in place.
3. When COVID hit in 1Q2020 everyone was equally clueless about COVID, gradually we learned more and got a better handle on things. So Biden and his team have the advantage of coming prepared to a situation that has already developed where we have lots more awareness.

(I'm assuming you meant hold, not hope, so corrected that)

Couldn't be said better.  I would also add that Biden vigorously campaigned on having a plan to nip the virus in the bud saying that Trump had no plan. So now we're all waiting for that plan to be publicized and implemented.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 08:02:27 PM
That's why I didn't say "nobody", I said I don't know how many because I knew someone would mention the Danish. What percentage of the world population are they? I'm just saying there aren't too many and you'd be hard pressed not to agree. Majority of the world population are not thrilled with the response to COVID-19.
China, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Norway, Iceland, the UAE.. itís a big world out there and many countries handled this remarkably well. Unfortunately, the US comes in at the very bottom of the barrel in nearly every metric.

Much of that might have been mazel and out of Trumpís hands, but some of the blame lies squarely with him. Remember, we are a country that prides ourselves in being the biggest and best at most things, including the size/strength of our military, our GDP, our medical and educational infrastructures, etc.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 08:15:23 PM
China, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Norway, Iceland, the UAE.. itís a big world out there and many countries handled this remarkably well. Unfortunately, the US comes in at the very bottom of the barrel in nearly every metric.

Do you really believe that the citizens of all these countries are thrilled with their responses? I'm not going to go through each of them but suffice it to say its just not true and I'll just point out 2 countries. You know good and well the Chinese wouldn't be applauding their leader had they not been forced to do so in communist regime style?

As far as Australia, yes they may have kept the count very low, however I personally know people living there who have told me how unhappy most citizens are with how the economy is getting busted and would have much preferred not such a harsh lockdown. The bottom line is that its not possible to have a complete lockdown to keep the virus out while still keeping your economy going as if nothing ever happened. Its one or the other and either way there will be people who like the plan as well as people who don't.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 08:23:40 PM

There was talk yesterday or today of SI neighborhoods with uptick, what are the rates there? They weren't going to be put in any zone, just have increased testing and awareness. So I'm curious what the rates are over there.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 08:57:44 PM
Do you really believe that the citizens of all these countries are thrilled with their responses? I'm not going to go through each of them but suffice it to say its just not true and I'll just point out 2 countries. You know good and well the Chinese wouldn't be applauding their leader had they not been forced to do so in communist regime style?

As far as Australia, yes they may have kept the count very low, however I personally know people living there who have told me how unhappy most citizens are with how the economy is getting busted and would have much preferred not such a harsh lockdown. The bottom line is that its not possible to have a complete lockdown to keep the virus out while still keeping your economy going as if nothing ever happened. Its one or the other and either way there will be people who like the plan as well as people who don't.
Iím not sure youíre right about China. I believe most Chinese citizens wholeheartedly buy in to the system, but I could be wrong.

As for Australia, while you might know a few people (who are probably frum and share the majority view prevalent on this forum) who are unhappy, from the start of COVID the PM has gone from record low approval ratings (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/13/scott-morrison-suffers-blow-to-personal-approval-rating-in-first-poll-of-2020) (37%) to being just about the most popular sitting PM (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiqr-DCrfTsAhWCmHIEHeVQCtEQFjACegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHistorical_rankings_of_prime_ministers_of_Australia&usg=AOvVaw0OAuA4-c-o3I6nGyu1beOc) in Australian history (70% approval for most of the pandemic). (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/05/scott-morrison-is-now-very-popular-australia-he-hasnt-earned-that/)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 09:18:11 PM
Iím not sure youíre right about China. I believe most Chinese citizens wholeheartedly buy in to the system, but I could be wrong.

Then you've never been to China. Or Hong Kong. Have been to both pre-pandemic more times than I can count.

In any case, I'm happy to let you have the last word as I don't really see the point in arguing about this. Its one of those times we'll agree to disagree :).

(And anyway its probably the wrong thread to have this argument.)
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 08, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
Then you've never been to China. Or Hong Kong. Have been to both pre-pandemic more times than I can count.

In any case, I'm happy to let you have the last word as I don't really see the point in arguing about this. Its one of those times we'll agree to disagree :).

(And anyway its probably the wrong thread to have this argument.)
As I said I could be wrong but Iím not sure what bearing the amount of times either of us have visited would have on this discussion. At least officially, Chinese citizens are overwhelming supportive (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/23/913650298/as-u-s-views-of-china-grow-more-negative-chinese-support-for-their-government-ri) of the administration and its response to COVID, and I believe thatís true as well of US citizens who are originally from China.

Did you see what I posted about Australia?
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 08, 2020, 10:06:19 PM
As I said I could be wrong but Iím not sure what bearing the amount of times either of us have visited would have on this discussion. At least officially, Chinese citizens are overwhelming supportive (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/23/913650298/as-u-s-views-of-china-grow-more-negative-chinese-support-for-their-government-ri) of the administration and its response to COVID, and I believe thatís true as well of US citizens who are originally from China.

Knowing the Chinese mentality quite well I take everything I read about them on a public site with a grain of salt. A huge one.

Did you see what I posted about Australia?

Yes I did and accept, thus no comment :).

I will add regarding your comment that the US response was towards the bottom of the list, that that has a whole lot more to do with the rules and regulations put into place by state and local officials than it has to do with the federal officials and/or president who didn't really have the power to set the responses for each individual state. They all chose their own paths give or take.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 09, 2020, 07:28:19 AM
I will add regarding your comment that the US response was towards the bottom of the list, that that has a whole lot more to do with the rules and regulations put into place by state and local officials than it has to do with the federal officials and/or president who didn't really have the power to set the responses for each individual state. They all chose their own paths give or take.
Some things might have been beyond Trumpís control. But there is no doubt he had a markedly different attitude towards the virus than world leaders who managed to successfully control it, and acted more similarly to leaders like Brazilís (who failed) than leaders like Denmarkís (who succeeded).

I donít think you would have predicted in advance that the US would stink it up in terms of dealing with the virus. Remember, weíre really good at most things. Youíre just using a convenient excuse (of which you can find many regarding any individual country) as an explanation after the fact. But by looking at policy and rhetoric it is clear Trump acted more similarly to leaders who failed, which indicates another person in his place with a different attitude would have performed better.

Once more: It is probably not *all* on Trump. But to claim it has *nothing* to do with Trump is highly disingenuous. I donít remember you predicting in advance that the US would do worse than anywhere else.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 09, 2020, 10:39:08 AM
Some things might have been beyond Trumpís control. But there is no doubt he had a markedly different attitude towards the virus than world leaders who managed to successfully control it, and acted more similarly to leaders like Brazilís (who failed) than leaders like Denmarkís (who succeeded).

I donít think you would have predicted in advance that the US would stink it up in terms of dealing with the virus. Remember, weíre really good at most things. Youíre just using a convenient excuse (of which you can find many regarding any individual country) as an explanation after the fact. But by looking at policy and rhetoric it is clear Trump acted more similarly to leaders who failed, which indicates another person in his place with a different attitude would have performed better.

Once more: It is probably not *all* on Trump. But to claim it has *nothing* to do with Trump is highly disingenuous. I donít remember you predicting in advance that the US would do worse than anywhere else.

Nobody said it had nothing to do with Trump and no I'm not a Navi so I don't make predictions.

But NY performed worse than any other place too with our "amazing" governor and other similar local leaders calling the shots. Trumps rhetoric means nothing when its other people that are implementing the policies especially those that disagree with him and will do the exact opposite of his rhetoric anyway.

We have to do our personal hishtadlus but what happens ultimately is up to Hashem - I know you may not go for this line but even l'havdil Cuomo wrongly used it for the enormous amount of nursing home deaths in NY saying it was an "act of G-d". Not Trump and not Cuomo and not any other world leader are ultimately at fault or totally in control and I personally feel its important to realize that.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 09, 2020, 12:53:37 PM
Nobody said it had nothing to do with Trump and no I'm not a Navi so I don't make predictions.
You make predictions every day in all parts of your life. You donít need to be a Navi, you need to be a rational person who makes the best decisions possible with the information available.

When you invest in the stock market, you are predicting that the market will rise. When you pull out, you are predicting that cash is safer or will perform better. When you purchase a home, you are predicting that the home value will rise. This is also true of small decisions, such as the decision to go anywhere or do anything. You are predicting that by driving somewhere you will arrive safely at your destination. The same for every other action you take in your life.

But NY performed worse than any other place too with our "amazing" governor and other similar local leaders calling the shots. Trumps rhetoric means nothing when its other people that are implementing the policies especially those that disagree with him and will do the exact opposite of his rhetoric anyway.

We have to do our personal hishtadlus but what happens ultimately is up to Hashem - I know you may not go for this line but even l'havdil Cuomo wrongly used it for the enormous amount of nursing home deaths in NY saying it was an "act of G-d". Not Trump and not Cuomo and not any other world leader are ultimately at fault or totally in control and I personally feel its important to realize that.
Thatís great, and ultimately everything is up to Hashem. However if part of hishtadlus is voting in competent leaders itís important to realize that Trump did *not* perform as competently as a replacement could have regarding COVID. Just like you decided his policies are good for Israel, the economy, etc. No, Cuomo did not perform too well either. That doesnít mean a better President couldnít have done a better job.

I never said nor believed NY has an ďamazingĒ governor. Youíre putting words and positions in my mouth. Trumpís actions rhetoric may not be everything but it certainly matters more than ďnothingĒ.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: iluv2travel on November 09, 2020, 02:25:57 PM
I never said nor believed NY has an ďamazingĒ governor. Youíre putting words and positions in my mouth.

My apologies, I didn't at all mean to intimate that you said it. I put it in quotes because I preferred being sarcastic and having people understand that I obviously mean the polar opposite without having to use a negative term. Didn't have anything to do at all with anything you said and I'm sorry you felt that way.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: S209 on November 09, 2020, 02:41:32 PM
My apologies, I didn't at all mean to intimate that you said it. I put it in quotes because I preferred being sarcastic and having people understand that I obviously mean the polar opposite without having to use a negative term. Didn't have anything to do at all with anything you said and I'm sorry you felt that way.
No apology necessary, clarification understood and appreciated.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on November 10, 2020, 08:36:20 AM
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mayor-warns-of-possible-nyc-coronavirus-closures
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Traveler718 on November 10, 2020, 11:43:02 AM
https://5townscentral.com/2020/11/10/agudath-israel-denied-preliminary-injunction-preventing-restrictions-on-shuls/
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Yard sale on November 19, 2020, 08:05:29 AM
China, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Norway, Iceland, the UAE.. itís a big world out there and many countries handled this remarkably well. Unfortunately, the US comes in at the very bottom of the barrel in nearly every metric.

Much of that might have been mazel and out of Trumpís hands, but some of the blame lies squarely with him. Remember, we are a country that prides ourselves in being the biggest and best at most things, including the size/strength of our military, our GDP, our medical and educational infrastructures, etc.
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/a61cd086b159-tokyo-planning-to-raise-virus-alert-to-highest-level-amid-surge.html
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: Lurker on November 19, 2020, 09:03:07 AM
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/a61cd086b159-tokyo-planning-to-raise-virus-alert-to-highest-level-amid-surge.html

Surging to a record of over 2000 daily cases. I'd say they win if that's their idea of "surge" and "record."
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: justaregularguy on November 19, 2020, 10:34:11 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/opinion/coronavirus-school-closures.html

this is new york times mind you.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: yzj on November 19, 2020, 10:36:38 AM
In other news De Blasio says he spoke to the governor and an orange zone designation is coming for the city within the next week or so which means all private schools are mandatory shut down again. I guess itís anything but admit you were wrong for shutting the public schools.Here we go again. Time to take out the dreidels.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: avromie7 on November 19, 2020, 10:39:12 AM
Deblasio had no trouble changing the goal posts to drag 2 weeks on for many months and many restrictions were not removed based on the original metrics, but when he uses a flawed metric to shut the schools he says this was the agreement.
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on November 19, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/opinion/coronavirus-school-closures.html

this is new york times mind you.
I stopped after the second sentence. What a rag
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: justaregularguy on November 19, 2020, 11:41:57 AM
I stopped after the second sentence. What a rag
not sure what u mean
Title: Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
Post by: TimT on January 05, 2021, 12:53:30 PM
https://boropark24.com/news/mayor-de-blasio-plans-to-start-a-sprinting-vaccination-process-while-gov-cuomo-plans-to-start-fining-hospitals

Typical Deblasio response when asked why vaccinations arenít currently 24/7.
ďGetting it right in the first few weeks was the trendsetter,Ē said the mayor. ďNow is the time to sprint.Ē