Post by: YitzyS on December 18, 2020, 08:23:30 AM
I believe the first three options are much bigger indicators of a level of confidence. Polls that mix in those who already got covid who assume themselves to be immune automatically skew confidence levels downwards.
If you already got the vaccine, check the "plan to get it as soon as it's available" box in your category, as it's an indication that you have confidence in the vaccine.
Post by: Euclid on December 18, 2020, 08:32:45 AM
Post by: drosenberg88429 on December 18, 2020, 08:43:30 AM
The actual scientifically proven efficacy is also a very relevant number, on which I believe there's currently not great data. (I don't think enough people in control placebo group got infected to have comparative exact inoculation effectiveness ascertained.) Once that number is more accurately pinpointed, people can start doing the math if they have to be concerned for protecting those in the higher risk bracket, or if they can assume that they've been effectively protected by the vaccine.
The length of implied immunity due to previous infection is also an unknown, as is long term covid effects.
There's a lot of moving parts, and a long way to go on this.
Post by: Der Deutsche Jude on December 18, 2020, 09:07:12 AM
You have to add in age group and risk bracket. There are so many factors that one would have to take a huge survey to be able to extrapolate numbers for the general population.Are you suggesting this for a DDF poll? First of all it’s a poor sample. Secondly, there won’t be enough responses to draw any conclusion even within the DDF demographic. Thirdly, the DDF poll features are quite basic and not capable of anything slightly advanced.
The actual scientifically proven efficacy is also a very relevant number, on which I believe there's currently not great data. (I don't think enough people in control placebo group got infected to have comparative exact inoculation effectiveness ascertained.) Once that number is more accurately pinpointed, people can start doing the math if they have to be concerned for protecting those in the higher risk bracket, or if they can assume that they've been effectively protected by the vaccine.
The length of implied immunity due to previous infection is also an unknown, as is long term covid effects.
There's a lot of moving parts, and a long way to go on this.
Post by: avromie7 on December 18, 2020, 09:59:25 AM
You have to add in age group and risk bracket. There are so many factors that one would have to take a huge survey to be able to extrapolate numbers for the general population.While the efficacy numbers aren't 100% exact, they're close enough. I don't think it will change many minds if the efficacy is 94% or 96% instead of 95%.
The actual scientifically proven efficacy is also a very relevant number, on which I believe there's currently not great data. (I don't think enough people in control placebo group got infected to have comparative exact inoculation effectiveness ascertained.) Once that number is more accurately pinpointed, people can start doing the math if they have to be concerned for protecting those in the higher risk bracket, or if they can assume that they've been effectively protected by the vaccine.
The length of implied immunity due to previous infection is also an unknown, as is long term covid effects.
There's a lot of moving parts, and a long way to go on this.
Post by: YitzyS on December 18, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
You have to add in age group and risk bracket. There are so many factors that one would have to take a huge survey to be able to extrapolate numbers for the general population.I seriously considered including risk factors, but I was afraid of the poll ending up like this one (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115267.0). However, the poll so far, with 12 respondents, seems to indicate that my hunch was right, and that those who never got COVID are much more willing to take the vaccine, and that any poll without this distinction is probably skewed by responses by those who already got COVID.
The actual scientifically proven efficacy is also a very relevant number, on which I believe there's currently not great data. (I don't think enough people in control placebo group got infected to have comparative exact inoculation effectiveness ascertained.) Once that number is more accurately pinpointed, people can start doing the math if they have to be concerned for protecting those in the higher risk bracket, or if they can assume that they've been effectively protected by the vaccine.
The length of implied immunity due to previous infection is also an unknown, as is long term covid effects.
There's a lot of moving parts, and a long way to go on this.
Post by: Der Deutsche Jude on December 18, 2020, 11:05:03 AM
I seriously considered including risk factors, but I was afraid of the poll ending up like this one (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115267.0). However, the poll so far, with 12 respondents, seems to indicate that my hunch was right, and that those who never got COVID are much more willing to take the vaccine, and that any poll without this distinction is probably skewed by responses by those who already got COVID.I'm sorry but a poll with a sample size of 16 is meaningless
Post by: YitzyS on December 18, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
I'm sorry but a poll with a sample size of 16 isI'm not trying to make a scientific theory here. I'm trying to get a feeling of what people think, and that can be done with with a small sample size. Also, hopefully more people will respond.meaninglessunscientific
Post by: etech0 on December 18, 2020, 11:36:10 AM
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 18, 2020, 11:36:53 AM
The question is how many people didn't vote because there wasn't a good option for them
Geez, every thread becomes political
Post by: YitzyS on December 18, 2020, 11:40:59 AM
The question is how many people didn't vote because there wasn't a good option for themAnyone is welcome to weigh in here, as a post. I've turned off my zapper for posts I don't like. Really, guys, you can say what's on your mind now.
Post by: etech0 on December 18, 2020, 11:47:33 AM
I "liked" this post since that was my answer:
You need to add a "I don't know; ask me again in 4 months when it will be available for me" option. Because that's where I'm leaning.Though it might be more than 4 months, who knows!
Post by: avromie7 on December 18, 2020, 11:55:07 AM
No politics, but there weren't any options that left room for deciding in the future.I think "I plan to wait" means I'm holding out, and if everything looks good at some point in the future I'll take it then. I think anyone who votes "I plan to wait" is leaving open the possibility that they won't feel comfortable with it in the future.
I "liked" this post since that was my answer:Though it might be more than 4 months, who knows!
Post by: S209 on December 18, 2020, 11:56:44 AM
Geez, every thread becomes political*tears of laughter emoji* *tears of laughter emoji*
Post by: etech0 on December 18, 2020, 12:10:07 PM
I think "I plan to wait" means I'm holding out, and if everything looks good at some point in the future I'll take it then. I think anyone who votes "I plan to wait" is leaving open the possibility that they won't feel comfortable with it in the future.It says "I plan to wait before I get the vaccine", not "I plan to wait and see/decide".
Post by: S209 on December 18, 2020, 12:17:33 PM
It says "I plan to wait before I get the vaccine", not "I plan to wait and see/decide".Why would you wait once it’s available to you if you know you’re getting it?
Post by: etech0 on December 18, 2020, 12:31:45 PM
Why would you wait once it’s available to you if you know you’re getting it?Who knows? I didn't vote for that option :)
Post by: S209 on December 18, 2020, 12:44:01 PM
Who knows? I didn't vote for that option :)But that would be the correct option for someone in your case. Choosing to wait means incorporating future information to make your decision.
All who agree with me like this post. ;)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on December 18, 2020, 03:33:12 PM
Anybody who is truly worried about side effects or long term effects, is either hypercritical or doesn't drive/eat processed foods/sugar etc.
Anybody who isn't worried about Covid damages is uninformed or delusional. There is no argument to be made.
Post by: iAm on December 19, 2020, 06:22:32 PM
I think when people are actually offered an opportunity to take it, its going to be hard to actually turn that down.
Post by: S209 on December 19, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
This is just anecdotal, but I know a lot of people in the hospital I'm in seemed hesitant about getting the vaccine when it was hypothetical. Then when they actually offered it to us, almost everyone I know jumped at the chance, to the extant that people were renting cars to go to satellite hospitals over an hour away that still had supply.Exactly. A lot of the “Well, I want to wait and see..” is going to fade quickly once it’s accepted and accessible.
I think when people are actually offered an opportunity to take it, its going to be hard to actually turn that down.
Post by: avromie7 on December 19, 2020, 09:42:38 PM
Exactly. A lot of the “Well, I want to wait and see..” is going to fade quickly once it’s accepted and accessible.Wouldn't that be the definition of wait and see?
Post by: iluv2travel on December 19, 2020, 10:21:46 PM
Post by: AsherO on December 19, 2020, 10:22:27 PM
Also, there are a lot of people who would like to see an approved vaccine that requires just 1 dose so those people probably would choose the wait and see option because the current available vaccines require 2 doses.
Even if two doses would be available to them long before the one dose option?
Post by: TimT on December 19, 2020, 10:26:47 PM
Also, there are a lot of people who would like to see an approved vaccine that requires just 1 dose so those people probably would choose the wait and see option because the current available vaccines require 2 doses.You know anyone like this ?
Post by: iluv2travel on December 19, 2020, 10:34:41 PM
Even if two doses would be available to them long before the one dose option?
Honestly don't know. I guess it would depend if long meant years vs months - I'm guessing they'd be willing to wait a couple of months but if its years and the 2 dose is widely available to the public then I'm assuming that not.
You know anyone like this ?
Yes, I do. There are plenty of people out there, even adults that are averse to shots. The discussion wasn't if they wouldn't get it at all because its 2 shots but that they'd be much more willing if its a 1 shot deal.
Post by: iluv2travel on December 19, 2020, 10:40:09 PM
I'm sorry but a poll with a sample size of 16 is meaningless
As of this post, there's 34 responses and the results are showing that double the amount of people who never had COVID would be willing to vaccinate. 18 vs 9.
So I wouldn't call a sample size of 34 very meaningful but its not totally meaningless either and continues to prove that @YitzyS hunch was correct.
Post by: S209 on December 19, 2020, 11:05:57 PM
Wouldn't that be the definition of wait and see?Yes. That’s my prediction of the “Wait and see” cohort’s eventual decision.
Post by: TimT on December 20, 2020, 05:35:56 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1930228/watch-it-hagaon-harav-chaim-kanievsky-people-are-required-to-take-vaccine-dont-be-afraid.html
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2020, 08:33:37 AM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1930079/hagaon-harav-yitzchak-yosef-every-person-must-be-vaccinated.html
Post by: AsherO on December 21, 2020, 08:35:55 AM
R’ Chaim says take it & don't be afraid.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1930228/watch-it-hagaon-harav-chaim-kanievsky-people-are-required-to-take-vaccine-dont-be-afraid.html
Harav Yitzchak Yosef also says it’s a chiyuv to get vaccinated.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1930079/hagaon-harav-yitzchak-yosef-every-person-must-be-vaccinated.html
IMHO this is only for those on the fence. The hardcore anti-vaxxers already made up their mind and no amount of Gedolim will change it.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2020, 08:39:59 AM
IMHO this is only for those on the fence. The hardcore anti-vaxxers already made up their mind and no amount of Gedolim will change it.Yup. Which from this poll is currently about 40%.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2020, 09:17:49 AM
IMHO this is only for those on the fence. The hardcore anti-vaxxers already made up their mind and no amount of Gedolim will change it.Like everything else in life
Post by: yungermanchik on December 21, 2020, 09:30:51 AM
Yup. Which from this poll is currently about 4.3%.FTFY, the rest probably just believe (as do many doctors) in long-term immunity from having the virus and see no reason to be pricked unnecessarily.
Personally, I chose "I got COVID, and I plan to wait before I get the vaccine" for that reason but I'll take it if I need to to fly etc.
Post by: S209 on December 21, 2020, 09:36:09 AM
FTFY-1
40% are on the fence.
Post by: S209 on December 21, 2020, 09:37:39 AM
FTFY, the rest probably just believe (as do many doctors) in long-term immunity from having the virus and see no reason to be pricked unnecessarily.Interesting, which doctors have you heard opine on the length of immunity to COVID?
Personally, I chose "I got COVID, and I plan to wait before I get the vaccine" for that reason but I'll take it if I need to to fly etc.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2020, 09:40:18 AM
FTFYWe must be seeing different polls.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2020, 10:03:06 AM
We must be seeing different polls.Amazing since we have never seen such behavior beroe on this board.
Post by: yungermanchik on December 21, 2020, 12:18:41 PM
We must be seeing different polls.There's only 4.3% of those polled, who did not have it and will "definitely not" get the vaccine. that is the only group that can be labeled
The hardcore anti-vaxxers.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2020, 12:21:18 PM
There's only 4.3% of those polled, who did not have it and will "definitely not" get the vaccine. that is the only group that can be labeledMy 40% post was in response to
IMHO this is only for those on the fence.
Post by: yungermanchik on December 21, 2020, 01:16:01 PM
My 40% post was in response toOh I misread it as going on the second half of the statement. My mistake.
Post by: S209 on December 21, 2020, 02:45:31 PM
My 40% post was in response to
40% are on the fence.
Post by: neveryou on January 16, 2021, 10:52:19 PM
laugh over this. 
Covid: 1 death is too many. 
Vaxxines: Many deaths are no reason for concern, bc it’s for the greater good. Covid: This virus can cause severe side effects. Though rare, we must not turn a blind eye and we must take it seriously as we don’t know who will be severely affected. Vaxxines: Severe side effects are possible, but so rare. Please don’t pay attention or let anti-vaxxers scare you away from vaccinations. We don’t have any way of knowing who will be affected, but it’s a risk we must be willing to take for the good of society. Covid: Though 99% may have survived Covid with no issues, were unsure of any side effects that could take place in the long term or later down the road. Take this serious. Vaxxines: You survived your vaccine and you’re fine. Anything that happens down the road is not associated with the vaccine. Covid: Man has heart attack after being diagnosed with Covid. Though most likely rare, we now know Covid can cause heart attacks! Vaxxine: Boy has seizure after receiving vaccine. This is likely a coincidence and has nothing to do with the vaccine. If it was a result of the vaccine, this is very rare. No reason to be alarmed. Covid: Man diagnosed with Bell’s Palsy after being diagnosed with Covid. Family says we must take this seriously. Wear your mask and social distance and be afraid. Vaxxine: 4 people diagnosed with Bells Palsy after receiving vaccines. While most likely a coincidence, Bell’s Palsy resolves on its own and its nothing to worry about. Covid: Believe science. Believe doctors. Vaxxine: I believe in science, except THIS science and all those doctors and scientists must be quacks. Covid: HCQ doesn’t work, even though tons of doctors are prescribing it and have had success. Even though it’s a 50 year old drug that thousands take daily with no issue. We did a rushed study and a couple of people had bad reactions. Therefore, It’s not safe and we must block people from using it. We don’t know long term effects and we cannot chance it. Vaxxines: Please take this extremely rushed vaccine that hasn’t had time to be properly tested, has NOT been approved by FDA (only approved through EAU - Emergency Auth Use), and please ignore any side effects and don’t worry about any long term effects. The risk is something we must take to help us get rid of this virus that already has a 99% survival rate. But we also aren’t sure if it even stops transmission, so continue to wear a mask and social distance. We also don’t know if it gives you immunity, so you will need a shot every 4-6 months Covid: Sorry, I don’t believe posts and articles coming from that news site and I don’t care if you’ve done you’re own unbiased research. I don’t even care about your anectodal evidence. Vaxxines: I haven’t done any research on my own, but I believe what CNN and MSNBC tell me and I have my own anecdotal evidence
Post by: Euclid on January 16, 2021, 10:56:57 PM
Shared from a friend. Had a good, but sad#makesyouthink #sheeple
Post by: S209 on January 17, 2021, 12:08:27 AM
Shared from a friend. Had a good, but sadWow. Pearls of wisdom. You’ve completely changed my worldview. I’m team anti-vax now!
Post by: TimT on February 23, 2021, 12:06:26 PM