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DansDeals Forum => Politics => Topic started by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 03:01:45 PM

Title: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 03:01:45 PM
I guess I'm not all that delusional anymore. Considering the events today, it's clear the insurrection will be overcome today, but tomorrow, Trumspters around the country will be brandishing their guns, as they did today in the GA capital.

 Mitch McConnell had already turned 180 degrees away from Trump. Will we see them actually remove him before Jan 20?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 03:05:00 PM

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 06, 2021, 03:05:00 PM
Wow!

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 03:06:50 PM
Maybe they can compromise.
How about he concedes after congress passes comprehensive voter fraud reform? Like only voting in person with ID
I dont think the Democrats would ever agree as they would never win an election again
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 03:07:36 PM
Maybe they can compromise.
How about he concedes after congress passes comprehensive voter fraud reform? Like only voting in person with ID
I dont think the Democrats would ever agree as they would never win an election again
Youu don't give in to a toddlers tantrums.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 03:09:50 PM
Even when Theres tens of millions that feel the same way?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 03:13:13 PM
Even when Theres tens of millions that feel the same way?
You want to live in a dictatorship? Then keep up this stupidity. These "protestors" should have the book thrown at them and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 03:19:33 PM
Even when Theres tens of millions that feel the same way?

The tens of millions were incited and hoodwinked by a megalomaniacal president who has, for months, been unable to procure even the tiniest shred of evidence that anything close to widescale fraud occurred, let alone enough to overturn an election that wasn't particularly close.

How do you say it? Lock him up.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 03:27:58 PM
They should treat these idiots the same way they proposed treating the "peaceful protestors"
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 03:29:45 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
GO! GO! GO!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 03:32:11 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: shwarmabob on January 06, 2021, 03:40:26 PM
it's sad
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: coffeebean on January 06, 2021, 03:41:27 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 03:46:25 PM
So is this considered a mostly peaceful protest or not?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 06, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
So is this considered a mostly peaceful protest or not?
Noble
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 03:48:20 PM
So is this considered a mostly peaceful protest or not?
What did you call the animals on the left. These animals are the same.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-protecting-american-monuments-memorials-statues-combating-recent-criminal-violence/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 03:51:19 PM
What did you call the animal on the left. These animal are the same.
Im not gonna argue
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yzj on January 06, 2021, 03:52:15 PM
If they would give them the Capital as an autonomous zone peace will be achieved.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 03:52:20 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: shwarmabob on January 06, 2021, 03:53:16 PM
So is this considered a mostly peaceful protest or not?
If you go into a federal building and barricade yourselves how is that peaceful? Furthermore, it will not be lookup upon peacefully by federal officers. I hope nobody gets hurt.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 06, 2021, 03:56:23 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-protecting-american-monuments-memorials-statues-combating-recent-criminal-violence/

They'll use this very paper as the tape over his mouth on 1/20.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 03:57:42 PM
If you go into a federal building and barricade yourselves how is that peaceful? Furthermore, it will not be lookup upon peacefully by federal officers. I hope nobody gets hurt.
I'm not sure if this calls for a "/r/whoosh" or posting the pictures of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of protesters who are actually peaceful...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 06, 2021, 03:58:21 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/845a3efbde643ab0ca185e579e23a4fd.jpg)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 04:00:54 PM
If you go into a federal building and barricade yourselves how is that peaceful? Furthermore, it will not be lookup upon peacefully by federal officers. I hope nobody gets hurt.
Was just trying to use the same words that were used in the summer.
Tonights talk shows are gonna be full of everyones ( on both sides of the aisle) words from then being used against them now.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 04:02:39 PM
https://wqow.com/2021/01/06/happening-now-armed-standoff-inside-us-capitol-shots-fired/ (https://wqow.com/2021/01/06/happening-now-armed-standoff-inside-us-capitol-shots-fired/)

https://heavy.com/news/watch-bloodied-woman-shot-capitol-stretcher-protest-video/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Was just trying to use the same words that were used in the summer.
Tonights talk shows are gonna be full of everyones ( on both sides of the aisle) words from then being used against them now.

Except for the handful who are actually honest with themselves.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 04:04:14 PM
Was just trying to use the same words that were used in the summer.
Tonights talk shows are gonna be full of everyones ( on both sides of the aisle) words from then being used against them now.

Let me see if I can think of a difference

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2RXv2Bs/walmart2.jpg)(https://i.postimg.cc/28X2xH6d/US-Capitol-west-side.jpg)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 04:04:28 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 06, 2021, 04:06:18 PM
Except for the handful who are actually honest with themselves.
Talk show hosts get paid to be intellectually dishonest.  (In all arenas, not only politics).
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 04:06:30 PM
Let me see if I can think of a difference

Or in other words
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 04:09:38 PM
Talk show hosts get paid to be intellectually dishonest.  (In all arenas, not only politics).

Fact check: Liar pant on fire

They are paid as entertainers.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 04:13:29 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 04:23:01 PM
Let me see if I can think of a difference
I'll help you out a little

One is going out and stealing because he wants free stuff.

The other is putting himself on the line to (do what he perceives, whether rightly or wrongly, as necessary to)  protect his country.


Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 06, 2021, 04:24:52 PM
I'll help you out a little

One is going out and stealing because he wants free stuff.

The other is putting himself on the line to (do what he perceives, whether rightly or wrongly, as necessary to)  protect destroy his country.


FTFY
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 04:26:07 PM
To everyone who ever accused us of "hysteria," everyone who used the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or snickered about "Orange Man Bad," please, take a bow.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 04:27:18 PM
To everyone who ever accused us of "hysteria," everyone who used the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or snickered about "Orange Man Bad," please, take a bow.
The two can both be true.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 04:30:06 PM
To everyone who ever accused us of "hysteria," everyone who used the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or snickered about "Orange Man Bad," please, take a bow.
In all seriousness, I would argue just the opposite, what you're seeing now is a direct result of and the outcome of 4 years of "Orange man Bad" TDS.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 06, 2021, 04:36:54 PM
Do you mean along the lines of "give a dog a bad name.."?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 04:37:33 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 06, 2021, 04:41:25 PM
Meanwhile, Trump is counting all the benjamins he will make off the movie that will come from this in 20 years.

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Dan on January 06, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
Meanwhile, Trump is counting all the benjamins he will make off the movie that will come from this in 20 years.
20 years? Odds are he'll be dead by then.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Lamppost on January 06, 2021, 04:44:42 PM
FTFY
While I vehemently disagree with the actions of these protestors, I am 100% sure than none of these folks think that they're destroying the country. They believe that they're the last thing standing between liberty as we know it and the country going into the abyss
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 04:49:49 PM
Can we change the poll to *should*?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: biobook on January 06, 2021, 04:51:27 PM
While I vehemently disagree with the actions of these protestors, I am 100% sure than none of these folks think that they're destroying the country. They believe that they're the last thing standing between liberty as we know it and the country going into the abyss
A perfect description of those who joined the Confederate Army.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: good sam on January 06, 2021, 04:53:09 PM
While I vehemently disagree with the actions of these protestors, I am 100% sure than none of these folks think that they're destroying the country. They believe that they're the last thing standing between liberty as we know it and the country going into the abyss
Is this also an excuse for everything those on the left have done over the last 4 years?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 06, 2021, 04:56:39 PM
Take 2. 3? 4? 5? I'm not sure...

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 05:06:12 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Lamppost on January 06, 2021, 05:09:07 PM
A perfect description of those who joined the Confederate Army.
That is correct. That's why I vehemently disagree with them!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 05:12:12 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 05:13:51 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 05:40:43 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 05:45:40 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 06, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Let me see if I can think of a difference

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2RXv2Bs/walmart2.jpg)(https://i.postimg.cc/28X2xH6d/US-Capitol-west-side.jpg)

It's cool how that picture of the federal courthouse in Portland looks just like a Walmart.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 06:09:49 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 06:30:42 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 06:31:30 PM
It's cool how that picture of the federal courthouse in Portland looks just like a Walmart.

LOL, used the first Google result
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 06:39:14 PM

There is speculation that the 25th Amendment was already invoked and Pence is in power
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 06:41:01 PM
Source for GW Bush? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 06:50:02 PM
There is speculation that the 25th Amendment was already invoked and Pence is in power
Now that is definitely gonna convince these guys that they were wrong all along about it all being a plot against Trump and they should just go home...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 06, 2021, 06:54:07 PM
Source for GW Bush? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehudaa on January 06, 2021, 07:16:19 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 06, 2021, 07:20:25 PM
LOL, used the first Google result

I think you missed my point.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 07:23:54 PM
I think you missed my point.

I think you missed my next post
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 07:24:16 PM
Thanks. Any primary source?
Now that is definitely gonna convince these guys that they were wrong all along about it all being a plot against Trump and they should just go home...

I don't think that should be the goal. We need to go after the source.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 07:25:38 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 07:26:55 PM
I don't think that should be the goal. We need to go after the source.
So it is about getting Trump, not ending the madness. Got it.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 07:29:59 PM
So it is about getting Trump, thereby ending the madness. Got it.
FTFY.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 06, 2021, 07:30:12 PM
Thanks. Any primary source?
It's on every news site that he "released a statement" - sounds like it was sent directly to news orgs.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 07:31:53 PM
So it is about getting Trump, not ending the madness. Got it.

What can be done to stop the madness at this point?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
It's on every news site that he "released a statement" - sounds like it was sent directly to news orgs.
Thanks. Smart of him to stay off Twitter.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: lubaby on January 06, 2021, 07:35:50 PM
What can be done to stop the madness at this point?
Thanks. Smart of him to stay off Twitter.
Twitter put Trump in time out.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 07:36:04 PM
Thanks. Smart of him to stay off Twitter.
Not by choice
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 07:37:39 PM
Have a question....
What wouldve been the narrative today, if no one wouldve gone into the building?

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 06, 2021, 07:39:55 PM
I think you missed my next post

Your next post is more defendable than the one I responded to.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 06, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Have a question....
What wouldve been the narrative today, if no one wouldve gone into the building?

"Violent Trump supporters converge on Washington"
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 07:40:56 PM
What can be done to stop the madness at this point?
Apparently by adding fuel to the "it's a plot by the elite to get rid of Trump" argument \_(ツ)_/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 07:51:40 PM
Have a question....
What wouldve been the narrative today, if no one wouldve gone into the building?
Who cares?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Apparently by adding fuel to the "it's a plot by the elite to get rid of Trump" argument \_(ツ)_/

So they should let them vent?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 07:54:41 PM
Who cares?
Just trying to say that maybe other people had an incentive to make trouble....
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 08:01:14 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 08:07:15 PM
So they should let them vent?
Apparently \_(ツ)_/
As long as they get rid of Trump...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 06, 2021, 08:10:44 PM
While I vehemently disagree with the actions of these protestors, I am 100% sure than none of these folks think that they're destroying the country. They believe that they're the last thing standing between liberty as we know it and the country going into the abyss
And most BLM protestors weren't acting for what they perceived to be the good of the country?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Mf1 on January 06, 2021, 08:15:59 PM
On a bit of a different note:
https://anash.org/rabbi-cunin-address-turmoil-in-washington-dc/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 06, 2021, 08:16:14 PM
And most BLM protestors weren't acting for what they perceived to be the good of the country?
The actual BLM protesters? yes.
the looters and Antifa anarchists? not so much.

(And yes there probably were also anarchists there today, not only "patriots.") 
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 08:20:54 PM
The actual BLM protesters? yes.
the looters and Antifa anarchists? not so much.

(And yes there probably were also anarchists there today, not only "patriots.")
Way to go, distracting from the main issue.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 06, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
The actual BLM protesters? yes.
the looters and Antifa anarchists? not so much.

(And yes there probably were also anarchists there today, not only "patriots.")
So basically there is no difference between BLM protestors and these protestors, except in this "protest" they actually forcefully breached and invaded the Capitol? Got it.

Have a question....
What wouldve been the narrative today, if no one wouldve gone into the building?


What would have been the narrative if Harry Potter was real?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 06, 2021, 08:40:52 PM
I was totally not following this thread, but I see that posts here are getting tons of likes, so I wish to get involved. Can anyone get me up to speed and give me advice on the most popular rhetoric/agenda for me to adapt?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 06, 2021, 08:42:24 PM
I was totally not following this thread, but I see that posts here are getting tons of likes, so I wish to get involved. Can anyone get me up to speed and give me advice on the most popular rhetoric/agenda for me to adapt?
Three words:

ORANGE MAN GOOD
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 08:43:14 PM
ORANGE MAN GOOD FOR NOTHING
:P
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 08:46:31 PM
So they should let them vent?


No they should arrest every single one of these animals and let Trump sign his pardons or whatever and keep him on a tight leash with the threat of 23rd amendment hanging over him. He can be humored. Maybe get him a virtual reality something or other to pretend he is nuking Iran or something of the sort.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: mushkovits on January 06, 2021, 08:47:06 PM
Three words:

ORANGE MAN GOOD
In a bit more respectful words, the Honorable President Trump good for Rubashkin and more.
Chill down people. All I know my last 4 years was way better than the 4 preceding it
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 08:48:24 PM

There is speculation that the 25th Amendment was already invoked and Pence is in power
Prob because DOD said he consulted with Pence or something like that.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 06, 2021, 08:49:00 PM
my last 4 years was way better than the 4 preceding it
When did 2020 occur? Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: USam on January 06, 2021, 08:54:09 PM
Three words:

ORANGE MAN GOOD

Or, as they sum it up these days, OMG!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: mushkovits on January 06, 2021, 08:54:38 PM
When did 2020 occur? Asking for a friend.
Approximately 30 months or so after the extermination of ISIS
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 06, 2021, 09:00:39 PM
Approximately 30 months or so after the extermination of ISIS
Nice deflection.

I'm sorry ISIS played such a large role in your life. I hope you and your family are ok now.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: mushkovits on January 06, 2021, 09:03:35 PM
Nice deflection.

I'm sorry ISIS played such a large role in your life. I hope you and your family are ok now.
Yup you guys are doing that for the last 4 years...its either hes bad or an excuse.
Bottom line I repeat that I and if I may add most of the civilized world in sum total had it much better the last 4 than the preceding 4.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: USam on January 06, 2021, 09:08:30 PM
I was totally not following this thread, but I see that posts here are getting tons of likes, so I wish to get involved. Can anyone get me up to speed and give me advice on the most popular rhetoric/agenda for me to adapt?

The heated debate here is whether the supermajority of Americans want Trump to be President another 4 years, or as the clear outcome of the November elections showed, to proclaim Trump President for Life.

Which side are you choosing?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: cgr on January 06, 2021, 09:33:13 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/House-of-Representatives-Speaker-Podium-/224307271673?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: cgr on January 06, 2021, 09:35:34 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/House-of-Representatives-Speaker-Podium-/224307271673?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGCG9Xc/Screenshot-20210106-213514-Whats-App.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K45GLYGk)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 06, 2021, 09:40:44 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/House-of-Representatives-Speaker-Podium-/224307271673?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
It's holding by $50,000. It went up more than 10k in the last 2 minutes!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 06, 2021, 09:42:21 PM
It's holding by $50,000. It went up more than 10k in the last 2 minutes!
$75k now!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: biobook on January 06, 2021, 09:43:04 PM
Yup you guys are doing that for the last 4 years...its either hes bad or an excuse.
Bottom line I repeat that I and if I may add most of the civilized world in sum total had it much better the last 4 than the preceding 4.
I can't speak for the rest of the civilized world, but for me, the past year doesn't count among my favorites.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: beeweegee on January 06, 2021, 09:44:52 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/House-of-Representatives-Speaker-Podium-/224307271673?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
Read the listing carefully - they are selling a photo of the podium :)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 06, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/House-of-Representatives-Speaker-Podium-/224307271673?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Its probably a fake:

- Seller has two listed.
- If you had the actual podium stone from the US Capitol, you would be a fool to list it on eBay, whether it was or wasnt you who stole it.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 06, 2021, 09:46:32 PM
Read the listing carefully - they are selling a photo of the podium :)

Why do eBay tolerate this BS, doesnt it just cause them a headache down the road?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: grodnoking on January 06, 2021, 09:55:40 PM
FTFY.
What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 06, 2021, 09:55:53 PM
It's holding at $100k now, but I gotta say, it's still a steal of a deal. Democrats just paid $500 million to get the podium from the Senate.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zevi on January 06, 2021, 09:56:33 PM
Why do eBay tolerate this BS, doesnt it just cause them a headache down the road?
..And listing is removed
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 09:58:11 PM
Apparently \_(ツ)_/
As long as they get rid of Trump...
You keep shrugging, but my original question wasn't rhetorical. Trump is clearly inciting this crap. I don't think impeaching him or 25th amendmenting him will help calm the mobs, but it at least impresses the importance of law and order, or whatever the en vogue lingo is. If you have an idea of what would calm the mobs, let's hear it.

No they should arrest every single one of these animals and let Trump sign his pardons or whatever and keep him on a tight leash with the threat of 23rd amendment hanging over him. He can be humored. Maybe get him a virtual reality something or other to pretend he is nuking Iran or something of the sort.

I chose my words specifically, that's what Dinkins said about the rioters in CH. I thought @whYME would recognize them and speak to the idea that kissing up to the mob in the hopes of avoiding further provocation would likely lead to more violence, not less.

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 10:00:59 PM
You keep shrugging, but my original question wasn't rhetorical. Trump is clearly inciting this crap. I don't think impeaching him or 25th amendmenting him will help calm the mobs, but it at least impresses the importance of law and order, or whatever the en vogue lingo is. If you have an idea of what would calm the mobs, let's hear it.

I chose my words specifically, that's what Dinkins said about the rioters in CH. I thought @whYME would recognize them and speak to the idea that kissing up to the mob in the hopes of avoiding further provocation would likely lead to more violence, not less.
Impeaching him will allow the acting President to command the US Military and other resources to defend the USA. The first order of business is protecting us from the mobs, not pacifying them.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: grodnoking on January 06, 2021, 10:04:39 PM
Impeaching him will allow the acting President to command the US Military and other resources to defend the USA. The first order of business is protecting us from the mobs, not pacifying them.

Sorry, I did not realize you were still in your bunker. You can come out now, there is no civil war. The protests have mostly been disbanded. No need for the military or any other socialistic force upon US Citizens.

Although maybe when my neighborhood was being looted and burnt it would have been nice to hear that you cared so much about everyone that you thought enlisting the military against its rioting citizens would have been worth it.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: shmelke on January 06, 2021, 10:05:14 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGCG9Xc/Screenshot-20210106-213514-Whats-App.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K45GLYGk)

Its Richard Branson!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 10:36:51 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/capitol-police-were-seemingly-overrun-by-trump-protesters/?

Video shows Capitol Police opening barricades for the terrorists
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 06, 2021, 10:46:19 PM
Used to say - טאקע א משוגענער אבער א טיכטיגע משוגענער
Now we say - א טיכטיגע משוגענער אבער פארט א משוגענער
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 10:54:01 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Flatbush on January 06, 2021, 10:58:48 PM
Source??
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 10:58:54 PM
Can't see the source but that is bogus.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 11:00:42 PM
Source??
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2021, 11:06:25 PM
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll
LOL as I said
that is bogus.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 11:14:48 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: iluv2travel on January 06, 2021, 11:21:43 PM
And here I was wondering why the COVID board was so quiet. I actually started thinking that maybe corona is actually really over. But I guess we're not that lucky yet  ;D.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 06, 2021, 11:27:56 PM
And here I was wondering why the COVID board was so quiet. I actually started thinking that maybe corona is actually really over. But I guess we're not that lucky yet  ;D.
Now that Congress voted and Dems are really in power - corona is over.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: iluv2travel on January 06, 2021, 11:29:30 PM
Now that Congress voted and Dems are really in power - corona is over.

As of today? Can we celebrate?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 06, 2021, 11:29:59 PM
As of today? Can we celebrate?
yup - let's have a mass spreader DO
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 06, 2021, 11:31:43 PM
yup - let's have a mass spreader DO

Wait for 1/20 or theyll just blame it on Trump.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: iluv2travel on January 06, 2021, 11:32:28 PM
yup - let's have a mass spreader DO

And let's invite everybody who (still) thinks COVID is a joke.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 06, 2021, 11:36:20 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 06, 2021, 11:52:05 PM
Crazy day.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 06, 2021, 11:52:20 PM

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 06, 2021, 11:57:24 PM
Any word on how the security wasnt ready for this?
How could it be so easy to get in?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 12:36:19 AM
Any word on how the security wasnt ready for this?
How could it be so easy to get in?
Cooperation. See NYP.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 12:39:10 AM
We spend $721,531,000,000 on our military budget but folks just walked right into the Capitol today like it was nothing.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 07, 2021, 12:43:19 AM
We spend $721,531,000,000 on our military budget but folks just walked right into the Capitol today like it was nothing.
Ok they didn't really handed it over to Russia
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 07, 2021, 12:57:58 AM
We spend $721,531,000,000 on our military budget but folks just walked right into the Capitol today like it was nothing.

And not for the first time. (Also, the military budget is completely irrelevant because they are not legally allowed to act on domestic soil)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 01:02:52 AM
And not for the first time. (Also, the military budget is completely irrelevant because they are not legally allowed to act on domestic soil)
They are with Presidential permission as has happened in the past and you very well know.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 07, 2021, 01:13:23 AM
They are with Presidential permission.

Nope (unless you are suggesting that Trump should have invoked the Insurrection Act before anything got violent. If that's what you are suggesting, I guess we have an added exhibit to prove the "Horseshoe Theory")
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: m65 on January 07, 2021, 01:54:35 AM
It's holding at $100k now, but I gotta say, it's still a steal of a deal. Democrats just paid $500 million to get the podium from the Senate.
but the ones the democrats bought was also just a fake, because really the republicans won the election
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 02:14:34 AM
Nope (unless you are suggesting that Trump should have invoked the Insurrection Act before anything got violent. If that's what you are suggesting, I guess we have an added exhibit to prove the "Horseshoe Theory")
On Sept. 23, 1957, President Dwight Eisenhower signed an executive order sending troops from the Army's 101st Airborne Division to maintain order and peace during the integration of Central High School by nine black students in Little Rock, Ark. Arkansas Gov. Orval Faubus earlier called in the state National Guard to bar black students from the school.


Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ShimshonK on January 07, 2021, 02:35:11 AM
The Washington Post: How pro-Trump insurrectionists broke into the U.S. Capitol.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/video-timeline-capitol-breach/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 03:53:06 AM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Afrages6 on January 07, 2021, 05:52:37 AM
Cooperation. See NYP.
Oh come on. The security in the US embassy in Iran basically opened the doors for the mob as well. Doesnt mean they cooperated.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 07, 2021, 06:54:09 AM
Any word on how the security wasnt ready for this?
How could it be so easy to get in?

Pro-Trump people stood by and let it happen (in support of him), and anti-Trump people stood by and let it happen because the optics make him look bad. This is why polarity isnt a good thing, it creates a void in the center where rational people usually exist.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Ergel on January 07, 2021, 07:18:05 AM
I think it's extremely difficult to control an angry mob if you aren't willing to use force. Think about it - without using serious force you have thousands of people coming at you - what can you do?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 07, 2021, 08:22:20 AM
I think it's extremely difficult to control an angry mob if you aren't willing to use force. Think about it - without using serious force you have thousands of people coming at you - what can you do?

Is tear gas considered force?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Ergel on January 07, 2021, 08:29:37 AM
Is tear gas considered force?
You tell me what the response was in June
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867532070/trumps-unannounced-church-visit-angers-church-officials
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 07, 2021, 08:58:32 AM
On Sept. 23, 1957, President Dwight Eisenhower signed an executive order sending troops from the Army's 101st Airborne Division to maintain order and peace during the integration of Central High School by nine black students in Little Rock, Ark. Arkansas Gov. Orval Faubus earlier called in the state National Guard to bar black students from the school.

Please explain how the Enforcement Acts are relevant here.

(General advice; if you'd spend 2 minutes on google before posting, you wouldn't say so many easily debunked things)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 09:30:49 AM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: grodnoking on January 07, 2021, 09:35:21 AM
Is tear gas considered force?
I saw officers spraying at the protesters. Not sure what it was.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 07, 2021, 10:19:18 AM
There is a famous joke that Osama Bin Laden called President Bush in the pre-dawn hours of 9/11 and wished his condolences. When Bush was perplexed, Bin Laden responded, "Oh, I forgot there's a time-zone difference," and quickly hung up.



Yesterday morning, Hillary Clinton retweeted this.




(https://i.postimg.cc/R0p5x8sF/6b9a1d98-1222-463a-bb1a-9608337ca8e3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsmwvdtb)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 07, 2021, 10:23:33 AM
There is a famous joke that Osama Bin Laden called President Bush in the pre-dawn hours of 9/11 and wished his condolences. When Bush was perplexed, Bin Laden responded, "Oh, I forgot there's a time-zone difference," and quickly hung up.



Yesterday morning, Hillary Clinton retweeted this.




(https://i.postimg.cc/R0p5x8sF/6b9a1d98-1222-463a-bb1a-9608337ca8e3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsmwvdtb)
I could have retweeted that a month ago and still have been right.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 10:34:03 AM
There is a famous joke that Osama Bin Laden called President Bush in the pre-dawn hours of 9/11 and wished his condolences. When Bush was perplexed, Bin Laden responded, "Oh, I forgot there's a time-zone difference," and quickly hung up.

Yesterday morning, Hillary Clinton retweeted this.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. That tweet has been retweeted for 4 years.

And if this was a false flag operation, it's been an elaborate buildup over many years

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 07, 2021, 10:34:40 AM
I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.
Joking
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 07, 2021, 11:05:31 AM

Was the problem the protests, or the violence? If you are suggesting arresting everyone who illegally protested in the capitol, there is a long list from the past years.

ETA: I'm as sceptical of false flag claims made now as I was when they were made during the BLM riots, but pointing to Baked Alaska isn't exactly making your point.

From Wikipedia -

Quote
Prior to his 2016 transformation into an alt-right activist, Gionet was a commentator for BuzzFeed, where he supported libertarian and progressive political positions and marched in support of Black Lives Matter.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 07, 2021, 11:37:10 AM
Its probably a fake:

- Seller has two listed.
- If you had the actual podium stone from the US Capitol, you would be a fool to list it on eBay, whether it was or wasnt you who stole it.

Of course I wouldn't list it. I would give it to Borizov as payment for some scrolls.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
Facebook blocked the bad orange man until Jan 20. Schumer calling for 25th Amendment or impeachment. Pelosi press conference at 1pm.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 11:40:39 AM
Was the problem the protests, or the violence? If you are suggesting arresting everyone who illegally protested in the capitol, there is a long list from the past years.

Ha? I'm just showing that there were famous right wingers there, this wasn't an Antifa false flag op.

When have you seen me defending violent protestors on either side before? I've spoken plenty about the hypocrisy of the media and the left. There are reasons to say why this is worse than anything that has been until now, not lease incitement by a sitting president. But the Kavanaugh and Gorsuch hearings weren't all that long ago, and if you proudly supported the morons that interrupted the helige Democratic Process then, or if you dismissed BLM rioters as "just damaging a Target which is anyways insured", spare me your pearl-clutching now.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 07, 2021, 11:43:21 AM
Facebook blocked the bad orange man until Jan 20. Schumer calling for 25th Amendment or impeachment. Pelosi press conference at 1pm.

Muzzle him so he doesnt have a chance to save face.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2021, 11:44:04 AM
Schumer calling for 25th Amendment or impeachment.
From Jan 20th until Jan 20th
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 07, 2021, 11:49:30 AM
Schumer calling for 25th Amendment or impeachment. Pelosi press conference at 1pm.
I think this is bad for our country. Right now, there is a certain unity between Dems and most Republicans that the president stepped over the line. It can be the beginning of a unity between the parties to some extent. Forcing Republicans to take a harsh stance on Trump can fragment this unity.

The Dems are set to have control of the White House and both houses of Congress. There is no need for them to stoke the embers.

That's my first impression. Agree?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2021, 11:50:51 AM
I think this is bad for our country. Right now, there is a certain unity between Dems and most Republicans that the president stepped over the line. It can be the beginning of a unity between the parties to some extent. Forcing Republicans to take a harsh stance on Trump can fragment this unity.

The Dems are set to have control of the White House and both houses of Congress. There is no need for them to stoke the embers.

That's my first impression. Agree?
You are expecting them to do what is best for the country? LOL
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 11:53:56 AM
I think this is bad for our country. Right now, there is a certain unity between Dems and most Republicans that the president stepped over the line. It can be the beginning of a unity between the parties to some extent. Forcing Republicans to take a harsh stance on Trump can fragment this unity.

The Dems are set to have control of the White House and both houses of Congress. There is no need for them to stoke the embers.

That's my first impression. Agree?

This gives Trump-backing politicians a way to back out and somewhat save face. They impeach him for a week and don't have to have the "we supported insurrection" over their heads.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 07, 2021, 11:57:06 AM
This gives Trump-backing politicians a way to back out and somewhat save face. They impeach him for a week and don't have to have the "we supported insurrection" over their heads.
...and lose a huge block of Republican Trump backers, so that they can never win again in some districts.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 12:00:35 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 12:02:27 PM
...and lose a huge block of Republican Trump backers, so that they can never win again in some districts.

After yesterday, that block is not as huge anymore
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 07, 2021, 12:03:31 PM
Ha? I'm just showing that there were famous right wingers there, this wasn't an Antifa false flag op.

And I'm saying that the fact that they were there does not mean they were involved in the violence which is what I presume you are upset about. If you are also upset about the protest, then that is a different discussion.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
The woman killed yesterday is Ashli Babbit from California, a 14-year veteran, who served four tours with the US Air Force.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
The woman killed yesterday is Ashli Babbit from California, a 14-year veteran, who served four tours with the US Air Force.
And what did she do that led her to be shot by whom?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
And what did she do that led her to be shot by whom?
Currently being investigated
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 01:29:23 PM
And what did she do that led her to be shot by whom?
Tried climbing through a window into a hallway the police still had under control.

Currently being investigated
Or you could just watch the video...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 07, 2021, 01:29:36 PM
After yesterday, that block is not as huge anymore
I hope.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 01:50:27 PM
I'll help you out a little

One is going out and stealing because he wants free stuff.

The other is putting himself on the line to (do what he perceives, whether rightly or wrongly, as necessary to)  protect his country.

(https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji14.png)

This was posted before I had a lot of information. Now that I've seen a lot more pictures and videos of what was going on, especially the looting and vandalism, I'm not so sure it applies to as many of them it seemed at the time...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 02:10:30 PM
This gives Trump-backing politicians a way to back out and somewhat save face. They impeach him for a week and don't have to have the "we supported insurrection" over their heads.
Well if the goal is to help Trump build back up support right now I can't think of a better way than by forcibly removing him from office before 1/20.

(and this is basically what I was trying to say yesterday (albeit sarcastically) when you asked if I was saying we should let them vent.)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 02:21:06 PM
Well if the goal is to help Trump build back up support right now I can't think of a better way than by forcibly removing him from office before 1/20.

(and this is basically what I was trying to say yesterday (albeit sarcastically) when you asked if I was saying we should let them vent.)
Impeaching him prevents him from running again in 2024. (משא"כ if they 25th him, AFAIU)

This is purely anecdotal, but the Trump supporters I know, which includes people who traveled to DC to protest yesterday, are disgusted by what happened yesterday and are not behind him at all.

I agree, impeaching him won't help the most extreme crowd. But I'm not sure that is enough of an excuse to not pursue legal consequences for his actions.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 07, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
I agree, impeaching him won't help the most extreme crowd. But I'm not sure that is enough of an excuse to not pursue legal consequences for his actions.

Impeaching him doesnt help the most extreme crowd, it isolates them. It basically renders Trump a non-option for any other non-extreme potential supporters of his.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: shmelke on January 07, 2021, 02:29:43 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGCG9Xc/Screenshot-20210106-213514-Whats-App.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K45GLYGk)

You may not agree with him, but you have to admit, he is taking a stand!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 02:33:16 PM
You may not agree with him, but you have to admit, he is taking a stand!

Uch. I hate you.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 07, 2021, 02:33:55 PM
You may not agree with him, but you have to admit, he is taking a stand!

😂😂 puneriffic!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Dan on January 07, 2021, 02:37:33 PM
Its Richard Branson!
You may not agree with him, but you have to admit, he is taking a stand!
LOL
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 07, 2021, 02:42:27 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1

Clickbait-ish headline, but the quotes from outside security officials were interesting to me.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 07, 2021, 02:44:13 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1

Clickbait-ish headline, but the quotes from outside security officials were interesting to me.

We spend $721,531,000,000 on our military budget but folks just walked right into the Capitol today like it was nothing.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 02:53:46 PM

HUCA?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 02:54:56 PM
This is purely anecdotal, but the Trump supporters I know, which includes people who traveled to DC to protest yesterday, are disgusted by what happened yesterday and are not behind him at all.
That's kinda my point. Right now his support is way down. Let him just die away.

I believe impeaching him now will generally be seen as "we finally got the bad orange man," and "the four-year coup attempt finally succeeded" and will only reinvigorate support for Trump.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 02:56:20 PM
Pelosi says Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund hasnt called her since the events of yesterday.
Calls for his resignation.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 07, 2021, 02:57:34 PM
That's kinda my point. Right now his support is way down. Let him just die away.

I believe impeaching him now will generally be seen as "we finally got the bad orange man," and "the four-year coup attempt finally succeeded" and will only reinvigorate support for Trump.
What exactly is that thought progression?

1. Trump deserves my support
2. Trump acted bad yesterday so now he doesn't deserve my support
3. People are picking on him so now he does deserve my support

Is that it?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 03:01:29 PM
That's kinda my point. Right now his support is way down. Let him just die away.

I believe impeaching him now will generally be seen as "we finally got the bad orange man," and "the four-year coup attempt finally succeeded" and will only reinvigorate support for Trump.

Impeaching him prevents him from running again. I don't think "ignoring" it will let his support die away. If he can and does run again, those supporters will be back as vociferous as before.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 03:02:06 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 07, 2021, 03:02:15 PM
What exactly is that thought progression?

1. Trump is a bad guy but the other guys are worse so he deserves my support.
2. Trump acted bad yesterday and is now worse than the other guys so now he doesn't deserve my support
3. The other guys are worse again so he does deserve my support

Something like this (and no, I'm not saying that this is what I think).
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2021, 03:03:19 PM
What exactly is that thought progression?

1. Trump deserves my support
2. Trump acted bad yesterday so now he doesn't deserve my support
3. People are picking on him so now he does deserve my support

Is that it?

1. The system is rigged. Trump is the only one that can stand up to it.
2. Trump acted bad yesterday, I can't support THAT.
3. See how rigged it is? What happened yesterday wasn't THAT bad.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 03:07:32 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 03:09:35 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 03:11:44 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 03:14:38 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 07, 2021, 03:16:04 PM

HUCA?

Pros/cons either way for Pence? Wouldnt it be cool to be president for a week or two?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 07, 2021, 03:17:57 PM
Some interesting historical context:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ks082p/meta_todays_sedition_at_the_united_states_capitol/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 07, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
Pros/cons either way for Pence? Wouldnt it be cool to be president for a week or two?
Would have been nice to have him for 4 years. I wonder who else could have managed Trump for 4 years?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: sguitarist18 on January 07, 2021, 03:47:33 PM

"BLM demonstrators were met with a massive show of force?"

When?
Where?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: biobook on January 07, 2021, 04:04:39 PM
Pros/cons either way for Pence? Wouldnt it be cool to be president for a week or two?
My very-much-non-conspiracy-theorist mother suggested that Trump's behavior yesterday was an attempt to act obviously insane, so that the 25th amendment would be used to replace him with Pence, who would then give Trump what he couldn't give himself - a Presidential Pardon.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Dan on January 07, 2021, 04:13:51 PM
My very-much-non-conspiracy-theorist mother suggested that Trump's behavior yesterday was an attempt to act obviously insane, so that the 25th amendment would be used to replace him with Pence, who would then give Trump what he couldn't give himself - a Presidential Pardon.
Why can't Trump pardon himself?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 04:17:05 PM
Former Trump chief of staff and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly just told @jaketapper the cabinet should meet to have a discussion about the 25th amendment... and that if he was still in the cabinet he would vote YES to invoke it.


"BLM demonstrators were met with a massive show of force?"

When?
Where?
There are picture from Capitol Hill itself. 15,000 people were arrested in BLM protests.
The damage BLM did was to individuals. A great deal of individuals. But attacking the Capitol, the VP, and other govt officials is an attack on EVERYBODY.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: grodnoking on January 07, 2021, 04:17:30 PM
It's a good thing that your main source of news seems to be twitter. Very mainstream, they don't silence anyone who they don't agree with at all. It's scary how much power these companies hold, able to cause millions of people to change their opinions to what they think is right, instead of letting people decide for themselves.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 04:20:16 PM
Why can't Trump pardon himself?
Debatable if it would work. It would also antagonize Congress to change the laws to prosecute him, and the States.


Pros/cons either way for Pence? Wouldnt it be cool to be president for a week or two?
Its beyond the point of personal calculations.


It's a good thing that your main source of news seems to be twitter. Very mainstream, they don't silence anyone who they don't agree with at all. It's scary how much power these companies hold, able to cause millions of people to change their opinions to what they think is right, instead of letting people decide for themselves.
Do you want to take away their Freedom Of Speech to decide which voices to amplify?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2021, 04:21:34 PM
Well, if Obama's wing-man feels that way then I guess that puts it to bed.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
Debatable if it would work. It would also antagonize Congress to change the laws to prosecute him, and the States.

Its beyond the point of personal calculations.

Do you want to take away their Freedom Of Speech to decide which voices to amplify?
If it works constitutionally then how can congress change that?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 04:23:06 PM
Gen. James Stavridis said there were doubtlessly Russian intelligence agents in that mob, for the sole purpose of accessing classified information in the Capitol offices.
 
That thought will haunt my days and nights for a long time.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2021, 04:24:20 PM
A blast from the past. I had totally forgotten about that clown. Thanks for sharing. Any other forgotten nobodys you can find ? Please post
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 04:25:11 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) US attorney for DC says all options are on the table for charging rioters at Capitol, including sedition.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stmark on January 07, 2021, 04:26:03 PM
Why can't Trump pardon himself?
Not so easy. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/trump-has-told-aides-recently-that-he-wants-to-pardon-himself-nyt.html

Easier to resign Jan 15 and have Pence pardon him.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 04:26:19 PM
Do you want to take away their Freedom Of Speech to decide which voices to amplify?
No, I want to take away their immunity from the responsibilities that come with choosing to exercise their right to choose which voices to amplify and silence, rather than being an open platform.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 04:27:17 PM
My very-much-non-conspiracy-theorist mother suggested that Trump's behavior yesterday was an attempt to act obviously insane, so that the 25th amendment would be used to replace him with Pence, who would then give Trump what he couldn't give himself - a Presidential Pardon.
Pardon him for what?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ezimark on January 07, 2021, 04:45:46 PM
BREAKING!!!
ANTIFA AND BLM RADICAL LEFT LEAD THE CAPITOL INVASION, NOT PEACEFUL TRUMP SUPPORTERS!!
https://matzav.com/false-flag-confirmed-viking-who-stormed-us-capitol-previously-photographed-at-blm-rally-wearing-the-same-outfit/
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-06-staged-viking-who-stormed-capitol-building-blm.html
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 07, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
BREAKING!!!
ANTIFA AND BLM RADICAL LEFT LEAD THE CAPITOL INVASION, NOT PEACEFUL TRUMP SUPPORTERS!!
https://matzav.com/false-flag-confirmed-viking-who-stormed-us-capitol-previously-photographed-at-blm-rally-wearing-the-same-outfit/
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-06-staged-viking-who-stormed-capitol-building-blm.html
ALOL
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2021, 04:59:23 PM
BREAKING!!!
ANTIFA AND BLM RADICAL LEFT LEAD THE CAPITOL INVASION, NOT PEACEFUL TRUMP SUPPORTERS!!
https://matzav.com/false-flag-confirmed-viking-who-stormed-us-capitol-previously-photographed-at-blm-rally-wearing-the-same-outfit/
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-06-staged-viking-who-stormed-capitol-building-blm.html
I am as sure that there were left wingers there yesterday as I am that there were right wingers at BLM "Peaceful Protests". Just as it did not excuse BLM it does not excuse the right wing here. Neo-Nazis greatly outnumbered Antifa yesterday. Why in the world are people defending them?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Euclid on January 07, 2021, 05:01:46 PM
I am as sure that there were left wingers there yesterday as I am that there were right wingers at BLM "Peaceful Protests". Just as it did not excuse BLM it does not excuse the right wing here. Neo-Nazis greatly outnumbered Antifa yesterday. Why in the world are people defending them?
This guy is a famous qanon guy - Jake Angeli. I find it hilarious the BS that matzav continues to peddle.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ShimshonK on January 07, 2021, 05:31:12 PM
Gen. James Stavridis said there were doubtlessly Russian intelligence agents in that mob, for the sole purpose of accessing classified information in the Capitol offices.
 
That thought will haunt my days and nights for a long time.

From Reuters:
Quote
Sherwin said there were electronics stolen from U.S. senators offices that could potentially jeopardize national security.

Materials were stolen, and we have to identify what was done, mitigate that, and it could have potential national security equities, he said. We just dont know the extent of that damage at this point - if there was damage, we dont know the extent of that.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 05:34:04 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 05:34:30 PM
Not so easy. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/trump-has-told-aides-recently-that-he-wants-to-pardon-himself-nyt.html

Easier to resign Jan 15 and have Pence pardon him.
That ship sailed. Pence wont do it
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
One person arrested near Capitol yesterday had *11* molotov cocktails "ready to go", per Justice Dept
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ShimshonK on January 07, 2021, 05:36:26 PM
This guy is a famous qanon guy - Jake Angelini. I find it hilarious the BS that matzav continues to peddle.
Yep. The photo was spread with the Qanon sign cropped out of the picture:
Invalid Tweet ID
Here's the non cropped picture:
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXfwdHKk/20210107-173446.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D841rBCg)

And here's an interview with him:
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 05:47:58 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 05:59:58 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 06:24:54 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Afrages6 on January 07, 2021, 06:34:18 PM
Seth Abramson is a quack.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 07, 2021, 06:49:02 PM
You may not agree with him, but you have to admit, he is taking a stand!
Okay, @shmelke won the post to like ratio contest
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 07, 2021, 06:52:33 PM
Okay, @shmelke won the post to like ratio contest
Thats all you ever think about!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2021, 06:58:03 PM
?s=21
Probably because that's what they got used to from dealing with BLM etc protesters
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 07:14:28 PM

Is the WSJ a quack?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 07, 2021, 07:16:52 PM

Is the WSJ a quack?

My should the threat of a second impeachment convince him to resign?
Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 07, 2021, 07:17:28 PM
Thats all you ever think about!
Why don't you look at the bright side: at least someone is conceding this week.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: shmelke on January 07, 2021, 08:24:05 PM
Okay, @shmelke won the post to like ratio contest

Just means hes a clown with no substance to add!  8)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 08:48:56 PM
Probably because that's what they got used to from dealing with BLM etc protesters
15,000 people were arrested during BLM riots.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2021, 08:51:02 PM
15,000 people were arrested during BLM riots.
In 1 day ?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
In 1 day ?
IINM NYC arrested 2000 people in 1 day.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2021, 08:58:28 PM
If this continues daily for half a year youll also have 15000 arrests.

In NYC (& possibly nationwide) 99.999999% of arrestees are never charged. I sure hope they take it more serious than NYC does.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 09:33:42 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on January 07, 2021, 09:41:51 PM
BREAKING!!!
ANTIFA AND BLM RADICAL LEFT LEAD THE CAPITOL INVASION, NOT PEACEFUL TRUMP SUPPORTERS!!
https://matzav.com/false-flag-confirmed-viking-who-stormed-us-capitol-previously-photographed-at-blm-rally-wearing-the-same-outfit/
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-06-staged-viking-who-stormed-capitol-building-blm.html
I guess those were alt-right agitators at BLM protests after all
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 07, 2021, 10:48:51 PM
The entire Senate, while in lockdown, watched Bidens speech in silence and then gave the president-elect unanimous applause. Democrats and Republicans together. The orange maniac ended up uniting the country in his contempt.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 07, 2021, 11:26:23 PM
I know people around here dont like to spoon feed but Ill ask anyways.
Can someone please explain very clearly why Trump is at fault for what happened yesterday?
Is it from the rhetoric from the last 5 yrs?
Is it because he called for wild protests?
 Did he say other things in the last few days?
And why are they trying to remove Senator Hawley from office?

I understand that Trump called for a rally and it got out of hand, but I think Im missing a little on the severity of what he did.

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zale on January 07, 2021, 11:37:01 PM
I know people around here dont like to spoon feed but Ill ask anyways.
Can someone please explain very clearly why Trump is at fault for what happened yesterday?
Is it from the rhetoric from the last 5 yrs?
Is it because he called for wild protests?
 Did he say other things in the last few days?
And why are they trying to remove Senator Hawley from office?

I understand that Trump called for a rally and it got out of hand, but I think Im missing a little on the severity of what he did.

I guess we can start with: why did Trump call for a rally in D.C.? For what purpose?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 08, 2021, 12:01:43 AM
I guess we can start with: why did Trump call for a rally in D.C.? For what purpose?
Not sure what your trying to get at, are you trying to say that Trump specifically wanted them to take over the capitol?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:08:14 AM
Not sure what your trying to get at, are you trying to say that Trump specifically wanted them to take over the capitol?
Trump all but called for physical interference with Congress then relished in it and betrayed his sworn duty to attempt to disperse it for the first few hours. BH our democracy is strong enough that he ultimately changed course.

Also, calling for illegitimate vote actions by Pence, Raffensberger, and others cab be sedition and other interference counts.

There is good reason Trump reversed course, cancelled many outstanding court cases, and released that video today and DOJ is investigating him personally.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 08, 2021, 12:32:38 AM
I could be wrong but I dont think most people went there thinking there would be violence, I thought it wouldnt be any different than any of his others rallies.
The question of if pence had power to send it back to the states or not, from what I heard its debatable.
Whats the DOJ investigating him for?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:35:03 AM
Ted Cruz now calling it a terrorist attack now.

I could be wrong but I dont think most people went there thinking there would be violence, I thought it wouldnt be any different than any of his others rallies.
The question of if pence had power to send it back to the states or not, from what I heard its debatable.
Whats the DOJ investigating him for?
That's part of the problem, Trump instigated the high temperatures by feeding you (and people you listen to) these anti-consituititnal theories. That can be sedition.

I'm sure one thing the DOJ will be checking is if Trump had direct advance intel knowledge of potential violence. This was discussed openly on far right/neo nazi social media. Bill Barr resigned for a reason.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 08, 2021, 12:36:53 AM
Who are the terrorists that hes referring to?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:38:29 AM
Who are the terrorists that hes referring to?
Seriously? Those who stormed the highest seat of the US government and delayed its vote proceedings. Imagine Trump ordered a nuclear attack on Iran and somebody breaks into the military base and disrupts the operation? This was worse.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:41:38 AM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 08, 2021, 12:46:15 AM
Reminds me of the story of the boy who cried wolf
These people have lost their chance to say anything on Trump. I tune out the second  they start talking. People like Cruz on the other hand...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:49:45 AM
Reminds me of the story of the boy who cried wolf
These people have lost their chance to say anything on Trump. I tune out the second  they start talking. People like Cruz on the other hand...
Good thing you have multiple sitting Republican State Governors and many other ex-officials calling for invocation of the 25th Amendment. Not so good that you have Pence not answering the phone to the Speaker of the House.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 08, 2021, 12:52:48 AM
Good thing you have multiple sitting Republican State Governors and many other ex-officials calling for invocation of the 25th Amendment. Not so good that you have Pence not answering the phone to the Speaker of the House.
Maybe pence knows that story too
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 02:19:19 AM


Maybe pence knows that story too
Except Pelosi is the head of a co-equal branch of government that Pence answers to. Imagine if Pelosi would be refusing to take Trumps calls
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 02:52:35 AM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ShimshonK on January 08, 2021, 03:30:39 AM
Sadly, an officer died from his injuries.
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/us-capitol-police-officer-dies-of-injuries-sustained-during-pro-trump-riots-officials-say
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 03:45:14 AM
&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=JaydenX[/youtube]
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 08, 2021, 08:05:45 AM
&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=JaydenX[/youtube]
For those who who wish to avoid watching it, the shooting is at the 35 minute mark.

**everyone skips to 35 minute mark**
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 09:00:47 AM
Imagine if Pelosi would be refusing to take Trumps calls

Which planet have you been on?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehudaa on January 08, 2021, 09:30:21 AM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 08, 2021, 09:36:11 AM

Except Pelosi is the head of a co-equal branch of government that Pence answers to. Imagine if Pelosi would be refusing to take Trumps calls

It's like the past 12 years don't even exist
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 10:16:19 AM
Not sure if this related

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 08, 2021, 10:38:49 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/y6J9J7QP/a9d152d6-2629-403f-8f5e-840eba5640eb.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Th6hFvXL)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Dan on January 08, 2021, 10:42:16 AM
&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=JaydenX[/youtube]
Yikes. No words.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 10:46:08 AM
For those who who wish to avoid watching it, the shooting is at the 35 minute mark.

**everyone skips to 35 minute mark**
FWIU it was SS in front of Mike Pence. Wonder at which BLM protest SS had to kill somebody to protect a VP.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 11:01:08 AM
FWIU it was SS in front of Mike Pence.
Source ?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: SwellCindy on January 08, 2021, 11:28:25 AM
Twitter link, Twitter link, Twitter link, Blah blah blah

@PlatinumGuy your cockiness on this forum is astounding... and you call us (former?) pro-Trumpers brainwashed. Who's signature do I recall, @aygart? To quote, "Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right".
Interesting how most here (according to DDF polls), who would have liked Trump to remain president, are able to be objective and agree that a line was crossed with the Capitol breach, yet we still see some shades of grey.... it absolutely doesn't make Trump 100% liable for what happened, despite how you desperately try to spin it. You call it "blind sheep", I call it thinking non-fooled Americans.

The only extremist here is you, with the non-stop gleeful posts about how this one and that one is calling out Trump and how the DOJ will investigate him (hooray, our tax dollars perpetuating the democratic legacy in case four years of it weren't enough, yet another fruitful investigation). Thankfully the rest of us don't think in such black and white terms and can weigh the facts - democratic vs. republican contributions to this country for the last few years - objectively.

- As for where you called pro-Trumpers brainwashed, or extreme, or blind sheep, guess what, I formed this opinion from the tone of your posts. No, I won't go back and scour your many posts for sources or proof; hopefully you can content yourself with my inclusion of the word opinion.

Have a wonderful Shabbos everyone.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 11:43:02 AM
Twitter link, Twitter link, Twitter link, Blah blah blah

@PlatinumGuy your cockiness on this forum is astounding... and you call us (former?) pro-Trumpers brainwashed. Who's signature do I recall, @aygart? To quote, "Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right".
Interesting how most here (according to DDF polls), who would have liked Trump to remain president, are able to be objective and agree that a line was crossed with the Capitol breach, yet we still see some shades of grey.... it absolutely doesn't make Trump 100% liable for what happened, despite how you desperately try to spin it. You call it "blind sheep", I call it thinking non-fooled Americans.

The only extremist here is you, with the non-stop gleeful posts about how this one and that one is calling out Trump and how the DOJ will investigate him (hooray, our tax dollars perpetuating the democratic legacy in case four years of it weren't enough, yet another fruitful investigation). Thankfully the rest of us don't think in such black and white terms and can weigh the facts - democratic vs. republican contributions to this country for the last few years - objectively.

- As for where you called pro-Trumpers brainwashed, or extreme, or blind sheep, guess what, I formed this opinion from the tone of your posts. No, I won't go back and scour your many posts for sources or proof; hopefully you can content yourself with my inclusion of the word opinion.

Have a wonderful Shabbos everyone.
I reread your posts a few times to double, but it seems you hide behind both-sideism and 'shades of gray' to avoid the relevant critical question. Do you still want Trump to be president? Would you vote for him again?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 11:51:00 AM
FWIW Capital police said one of their officers shot her.

Notice how stunned the riot police RIGHT BEHIND HER are. If the bullet misses her chances are it hits one of them or suit guy right near her.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:00:03 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 08, 2021, 12:00:11 PM
FWIW Capital police said one of their officers shot her.

Notice how stunned the riot police RIGHT BEHIND HER are. If the bullet misses her chances are it hits one of them or suit guy right near her.
Not sure which clip you saw, but there's one out there that shows clearly the shot came from the side, not head on. So if it had missed here, it would've gone into the wall to the right of the door.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chevron on January 08, 2021, 12:06:15 PM
While I vehemently disagree with the actions of these protestors, I am 100% sure than none of these folks think that they're destroying the country. They believe that they're the last thing standing between liberty as we know it and the country going into the abyss

On point, this isn't a fringe theroy.

You have to understand that many people believe there was a widespread conspiracy to oust trump.

There are very sound mind level headed intelligent people who believe the election was rigged.

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 12:08:47 PM
Not sure which clip you saw, but there's one out there that shows clearly the shot came from the side, not head on. So if it had missed here, it would've gone into the wall to the right of the door.
1)There are people between her & the wall.
2) Is it guaranteed to go through & not ricochet ?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 08, 2021, 12:16:22 PM
FWIW Capital police said one of their officers shot her.

Notice how stunned the riot police RIGHT BEHIND HER are. If the bullet misses her chances are it hits one of them or suit guy right near her.

Secret Service is not going to miss a nearly point blank range shot. And it's their job to do it anyway even with the risk of missing. It is not part of their job description to deescalate.

ETA: That shot was probably what stopped the mob and got them all to leave, which is a significant factor.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:17:29 PM
Secret Service is not going to miss a nearly point blank range shot. And it's their job to do it anyway even with the risk of missing. It is not part of their job description to deescalate.
Where is the like button when we need it?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 12:26:56 PM
Secret Service is not going to miss a nearly point blank range shot. And it's their job to do it anyway even with the risk of missing. It is not part of their job description to deescalate.

ETA: That shot was probably what stopped the mob and got them all to leave, which is a significant factor.
One shot to stop a coup. WOW
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 12:27:48 PM
Secret Service is not going to miss a nearly point blank range shot. And it's their job to do it anyway even with the risk of missing. It is not part of their job description to deescalate.

ETA: That shot was probably what stopped the mob and got them all to leave, which is a significant factor.
Nothing to do with deescalation. More about the cops right behind her.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:28:15 PM
Democrats have 131 co-sponsors on their impeachment articles, including Judiciary Committee Chairman Nadler and Rules Committee Chairman McGovern

A laptop was stolen from Nancy Pelosi (aide?)s office.

Putin triumphed.
One shot to stop a coup. WOW
Thats how incompetent, weak, & isolated Trump and his cronies are. BH!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 12:37:34 PM
Thats how incompetent, weak, & isolated Trump and his cronies are. BH!
I think you need to take a step back and take a look at how your arguments fit with each other.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 12:40:57 PM
One shot to stop a coup. WOW
Looks like right-wingers & their guns arent so dangerous after all. The gun debate can finally be put to rest.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:45:24 PM
I would imagine Iran is seriously contemplating an attack on US assets in the Mideast now. There would be epic pandemonium in DC. Russians may even do something as a false flag to provoke it. Per MSM, Milley assured Pelosi there are 'safeguards in place' in case Trump orders a nuclear launch (her announcement only states she discussed possible precautions with him).
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 12:47:35 PM
I would imagine Iran is seriously contemplating an attack on US assets in the Mideast now. There would be epic pandemonium in DC. Russians may even do something as a false flag to provoke it. Per MSM, Milley assured Pelosi there are 'safeguards in place' in case Trump orders a nuclear launch (her announcement only states she discussed possible precautions with him).
Total brilliance of her to announce it. There have been madman safeguards in place for decades.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
Total brilliance of her to announce it.
So you agree the situation now is somewhat dangerous?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 12:51:43 PM
So you agree the situation now is somewhat dangerous?
Not any more now than 3 months ago.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 12:53:43 PM
So you agree the situation now is somewhat dangerous?
yup. Unfortunately, Pelosi and her ilk care more about gaining political points than about your concerns. (this is not meant to refer to either side of the aisle)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 12:54:48 PM
Not any more now than 3 months ago.
There is definitely a higher likelihood of competing interests trying to take advantage of the chaos.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 12:55:20 PM
yup.
Happy we can agree on something.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 12:57:29 PM
There is definitely a higher likelihood of competing interests trying to take advantage of the chaos.
The military isnt weaker because of the events in DC.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 12:59:19 PM
The military isnt weaker because of the events in DC.
But the chain of command is.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 01:00:26 PM
The military isnt weaker because of the events in DC.
When was the last time a Defense Secretary said he consulted with the Vice President before a military action and omitted the president?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 01:04:40 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 01:11:11 PM
?s=21
Well, if Obama's wing-man feels if foreign politicians feel that way then I guess that puts it to bed.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 01:17:13 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/impeachment-again-11610128895
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 01:21:45 PM
CNN reporting Kevin McCarthy frantically called Trump while the Capitol was under siege and asked him to have his supporters back off.  A shouting match ensued.  Trump refused.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 01:22:38 PM
When was the last time a Defense Secretary said he consulted with the Vice President before a military action and omitted the president?
This doesnt contradict what I said. They have to be smarter than to think we wont respond with devastating force if they attack us.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 01:32:15 PM
Justice Dept announces it arrested Richard Bartnett of Arkansas for illegally entering office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and taking mail

This doesnt contradict what I said. They have to be smarter than to think we wont respond with devastating force if they attack us.
Somebody like Russia doesnt care about that. They want to sow mayhem and division. Iran is also willing to suffer repercussions.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 01:34:25 PM
Somebody like Russia doesnt care about that. They want to sow mayhem and division. Iran is also willing to suffer repercussions.
okay so then what would be different now?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 08, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Justice Dept announces it arrested Richard Bartnett of Arkansas for illegally entering office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and taking mail
Somebody like Russia doesnt care about that. They want to sow mayhem and division. Iran is also willing to suffer repercussions.

Why weren't all these people at work on a Tuesday afternoon? And why were many of them from hundreds of miles away? Nothing serious was planned for the spectators so what was the point in going?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 01:36:15 PM
Why weren't all these people at work on a Tuesday afternoon? And why were many of them from hundreds of miles away? Nothing serious was planned for the spectators so what was the point in going?
The same questions I have about any protest.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 01:37:22 PM
Somebody like Russia doesnt care about that. They want to sow mayhem and division. Iran is also willing to suffer repercussions.
This must be why they havent tried anything yet. Especially after we assassinated the general.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 01:38:10 PM
okay so then what would be different now?
There is definitely a higher likelihood of competing interests trying to take advantage of the chaos.

There is more to gain by attacking US assets now. It would further sow division. Nobody argues the Russians assisted the Trump campaign (the debate is if the two colluded). This is what they wanted.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 01:59:58 PM
Wonder if it's even politically worthwhile for the Dems to impeach Trump and bar him from future office. If they don't, he'll keep on destroying the GOP like he did in GA.



Started with Romney, holding by Graham.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 08, 2021, 02:40:05 PM
The same questions I have about any protest.

Right, and usually people like the ones here say it's because all of the protesters (or inauguration attendees or whatever) are on programs and such and are not tied down to jobs. I doubt it's the truth in either case and it's bewildering. Doubly so here because there was no possibility of accomplishing anything by being there (unlike many protests for rights or peace where getting crowds can attract needed attention and draw out support)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 03:19:10 PM
Right, and usually people like the ones here say it's because all of the protesters (or inauguration attendees or whatever) are on programs and such and are not tied down to jobs. I doubt it's the truth in either case and it's bewildering. Doubly so here because there was no possibility of accomplishing anything by being there (unlike many protests for rights or peace where getting crowds can attract needed attention and draw out support)
Everyone's adapted to working remotely. :)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 03:30:54 PM
Right, and usually people like the ones here say it's because all of the protesters (or inauguration attendees or whatever) are on programs and such and are not tied down to jobs. I doubt it's the truth in either case and it's bewildering. Doubly so here because there was no possibility of accomplishing anything by being there (unlike many protests for rights or peace where getting crowds can attract needed attention and draw out support)
The far right benefits from a lot of Farm subsidies and special Federal government programs. Much of the land was given to them years ago.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Jellybelly on January 08, 2021, 03:37:19 PM
@PlatinumGuy whered did you post Cuomos tweet? I cant seem to find it.
He said Trump must resign or be impeached!
Trumps really boxed into a corner now 🙄
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 08, 2021, 03:43:53 PM
Nobody argues the Russians assisted the Trump campaign (the debate is if the two colluded).

This is a lie. Russia worked to sow division and the Democrats played right into their hands.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 03:50:37 PM


This is a lie. Russia worked to sow division and that played right into the Democrat hands.
FTFY

For all their talk of unity they are being as divisive as ever from Biden down.

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 03:51:59 PM
Shuls in the 5 towns condemning the 5TJT

Quote
The letter below was sent this morning to Larry Gordon, Publisher of the Five Towns Jewish Times, following the front page publication of a community member, who is seen smiling in front of the desecrated US Capitol building.

Dear Mr. Gordon:
I am writing to you in my capacity as the president of the Young Israel of Woodmere and with the knowledge and permission of the rabbis and lay leadership of the shul as well. We strongly object to your posting of a picture of Gila Jedwab with her arms extended in a welcoming fashion during the despicable event in front of the nations capital together with all its negative ramifications. Your glorification of an act that we all find abhorrent and against jewish values, morals and ethical conduct requires an immediate repudiation. You are perpetuating a tremendous chilul Hashem. Until you undertake to address this situation and issue a clear apology to the community, your newspaper is no longer welcome at the Young Israel of Woodmere. Please advise your delivery personnel to remove the YIW from its route. 

​​​​​​​Stuart Wagner
Young Israel of Woodmere
859 Peninsula Blvd.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2021, 03:53:31 PM
@PlatinumGuy whered did you post Cuomos tweet? I cant seem to find it.
He said Trump must resign or be impeached!
Trumps really boxed into a corner now 🙄
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 08, 2021, 04:01:55 PM
Shuls in the 5 towns condemning the 5TJT

There was a frum lady involved in the rioting?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2021, 04:07:04 PM
Shuls in the 5 towns condemning the 5TJT
Plural?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 08, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Plural?
Beth Shalom too

There was a frum lady involved in the rioting?
She posed proudly in front of the sieged Capitaol and it was printed on the front page.
This is a lie.
We can argue about this ad nauseam, but Trump, the executive prosecution bodies, and the courts all agree on it.

On January 11, 2017, Trump conceded that Russia was probably the source of the leaks
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehudaa on January 09, 2021, 07:56:56 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ShimshonK on January 09, 2021, 10:09:47 PM
CNN: Pence has not ruled out 25th Amendment, source says.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/mike-pence-25th-amendment/index.html
Quote
(Vice President Mike Pence has not ruled out an effort to invoke the 25th Amendment and wants to preserve the option in case President Donald Trump becomes more unstable, a source close to the vice president says.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 10, 2021, 03:00:56 AM

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 10, 2021, 03:15:50 AM

Senate floor was sealed at 2:15pm, this happened at 2:14pm. I dont know who was on the senate floor at the time.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 10, 2021, 07:15:13 AM

This is smart, public ID campaigns have never gone wrong before. Let's encourage this as much as we can.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 10, 2021, 08:40:01 AM
This is smart, public ID campaigns have never gone wrong before. Let's encourage this as much as we can.
Everything is okay as long as it is anti Trump. That has been very clear for a while.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 10, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
Trump was just so dangerous and threatening that everyone was so scared to go up against him! What a threat to freedom!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 10, 2021, 09:57:53 AM
Everyone's adapted to working remotely. :)

I am roaring with laughter at the idea of taking a work call while working remotely at the Capitol
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 10, 2021, 06:58:10 PM
The House will try to UC a resolution Monday calling for Pence to replace Trump under the 25th amendment.

Then, try to pass the 25th amendment resolution Tuesday if they presumably don't get UC.

Then, "we will proceed with bringing impeachment resolution to the floor
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Mf1 on January 10, 2021, 09:24:48 PM
rabbi s jacobson speaking about this topic https://youtu.be/tr35x0oV7aI
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 11, 2021, 01:37:42 AM
This is smart, public ID campaigns have never gone wrong before. Let's encourage this as much as we can.


Sitting US senator
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 11, 2021, 02:20:08 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 11, 2021, 02:22:59 AM

Sitting US senator

Right because sitting US senators have not been accused of, say, incitement. I mean, the public doxing innocents as terrorists might lead to a suicide or two, but big picture, right?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 11, 2021, 02:45:22 AM
Right because sitting US senators have not been accused of, say, incitement. I mean, the public doxing innocents as terrorists might lead to a suicide or two, but big picture, right?
Big difference between senator speaking on his own and senator quoting information from the FBI.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ShimshonK on January 11, 2021, 04:17:28 AM
https://youtu.be/lfP_5L8epow
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 11, 2021, 07:57:42 AM
Big difference between senator speaking on his own and senator quoting information from the FBI.

Senator or FBI, it's a stupid idea that has completely destroyed innocent lives in the past.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 11, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Senator or FBI, it's a stupid idea that has completely destroyed innocent lives in the past.
But Trump
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 11, 2021, 03:08:38 PM

Unity
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: TimT on January 11, 2021, 03:19:40 PM
AOC says her top priority the next 4 years is to ensure Trumps impeachment.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 11, 2021, 03:36:08 PM
AOC says her top priority the next 4 years is to ensure Trumps impeachment.
As much as I'm annoyed hearing the toddler quoted constantly on the radio I'm happy Nancy is even more annoyed.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 11, 2021, 04:57:28 PM
AOC says her top priority the next 4 years is to ensure Trumps impeachment.

I think its very telling how threatened the Ds feel by Trump. And it has nothing to do with insurrection.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 11, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 11, 2021, 07:10:07 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: good sam on January 12, 2021, 12:42:06 AM
This is going round whatsapp and it's marvelous



Trump just declassified all the Washington scandals. He is hiding at a military base.  The attack at the capitol was antifa and BLM, mostly.

This is not in any of the news or social media.

BREAKING

This is why they are censoring everyone. They just DECLASSIFIED everything!  Share it far & wide.

Here we go!

Wikileaks just dumped all of their files online. Everything from Hillary Clinton's emails, McCain's being guilty, Vegas shooting, Steve Jobs HIV letter, PedoPodesta, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Bilderberg, CIA agents arrested for rape, WHO pandemic. Happy Digging!

Here you go, please read and pass it on..... [https://file.wikileaks.org/file/.](https://file.wikileaks.org/file/)..

These are Clintons emails: [https://file.wikileaks.org/file/clinton-emails/](https://file.wikileaks.org/file/clinton-emails/)

Index file!   [https://file.wikileaks.org/file/?fbclid=IwAR2U_Evqah_Qy2wxNY12FMqFC5dAFUcZL5Kl4FIfQuMFMp8ssbM46oHXWMI](https://file.wikileaks.org/file/?fbclid=IwAR2U_Evqah_Qy2wxNY12FMqFC5dAFUcZL5Kl4FIfQuMFMp8ssbM46oHXWMI)

Send to everyone you can as fast as you can!  
Forward

IT'S HAPPENING!

Military takedowns and arrests begin this wknd and will continue forward for the next 13 days/nights. Some international raids have already started. Italy has also been found complicit in our election fraud.
Everyone will be getting emergency alerts on their phones, tv's, radios & internet. It will override all other broadcasts and could last for several hours at a time. Do not to be scared of what's coming as it is for the safety of our nation for this to unfold.
DO NOT travel to any large cities (especially Philadelphia) for the rest of the month. Military operations will be taking place in many of the major corrupt cities. People will start rioting once this intel breaks thinking Trump is a military dictator. He only has 13 days to put this dog down.

The implementation of the Insurrection Act began after the raid on the Capitol and was marked by Trump's broadcast to the people to disband and return home. This broadcast wound up being blocked, for the most part, by the media. Nevertheless, his address fulfilled the requirements to initiate the Act.
Marines and National Guard troops are being moved as needed for the riots that will start after the national release of the intel. The intel will be dropped for everyone to see and hear in loops that will be several hours long. The system was just checked by the FCC a few days ago alerting ALL media that they cannot block the flow of intel under federal regs.
Trump will be moved continuously like a chess piece from now until the 20th in order to avoid any retaliation against him and family.
Trump had to exhaust ALL other means legally before this operation could commence. He gave everyone a fair chance to come clean and they refused.
His press release of a "smooth transition" did not include the word, "concede" as he has no plans to do so. Rather, there will be a smooth transition of power to his new cabinet, staff and Vice President, General Flynn.

The rally in DC was an awesome event
For what it's worth
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yesitsme on January 12, 2021, 12:43:36 AM
as they say פייק ניוז

sorry @ChaimMoskowitz I dont have the proper translation
https://www.google.com/search?פייק+ניוז (https://www.google.com/search?q=%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A7+%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%95%D7%96)


BTW is there any updates from turnheim?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 02:50:19 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 12, 2021, 03:03:11 PM
This is going round whatsapp and it's marvelous




*Ctrl F*
*Fema Camps*
*0 Results*

 >:(
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Abey on January 12, 2021, 03:16:56 PM
This is going round whatsapp and it's marvelous



Trump just declassified all the Washington scandals. He is hiding at a military base.  The attack at the capitol was antifa and BLM, mostly.

This is not in any of the news or social media.

BREAKING Moderates will you remove this obvious bs ? Or trust that most DDFrs are brighter then this?

This is why they are censoring everyone. They just DECLASSIFIED everything!  Share it far & wide.

Here we go!

Wikileaks just dumped all of their files online. Everything from Hillary Clinton's emails, McCain's being guilty, Vegas shooting, Steve Jobs HIV letter, PedoPodesta, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Bilderberg, CIA agents arrested for rape, WHO pandemic. Happy Digging!

Here you go, please read and pass it on..... [https://file.wikileaks.org/file/.](https://file.wikileaks.org/file/)..

These are Clintons emails: [https://file.wikileaks.org/file/clinton-emails/](https://file.wikileaks.org/file/clinton-emails/)

Index file!   [https://file.wikileaks.org/file/?fbclid=IwAR2U_Evqah_Qy2wxNY12FMqFC5dAFUcZL5Kl4FIfQuMFMp8ssbM46oHXWMI](https://file.wikileaks.org/file/?fbclid=IwAR2U_Evqah_Qy2wxNY12FMqFC5dAFUcZL5Kl4FIfQuMFMp8ssbM46oHXWMI)

Send to everyone you can as fast as you can! 
Forward

IT'S HAPPENING!

Military takedowns and arrests begin this wknd and will continue forward for the next 13 days/nights. Some international raids have already started. Italy has also been found complicit in our election fraud.
Everyone will be getting emergency alerts on their phones, tv's, radios & internet. It will override all other broadcasts and could last for several hours at a time. Do not to be scared of what's coming as it is for the safety of our nation for this to unfold.
DO NOT travel to any large cities (especially Philadelphia) for the rest of the month. Military operations will be taking place in many of the major corrupt cities. People will start rioting once this intel breaks thinking Trump is a military dictator. He only has 13 days to put this dog down.

The implementation of the Insurrection Act began after the raid on the Capitol and was marked by Trump's broadcast to the people to disband and return home. This broadcast wound up being blocked, for the most part, by the media. Nevertheless, his address fulfilled the requirements to initiate the Act.
Marines and National Guard troops are being moved as needed for the riots that will start after the national release of the intel. The intel will be dropped for everyone to see and hear in loops that will be several hours long. The system was just checked by the FCC a few days ago alerting ALL media that they cannot block the flow of intel under federal regs.
Trump will be moved continuously like a chess piece from now until the 20th in order to avoid any retaliation against him and family.
Trump had to exhaust ALL other means legally before this operation could commence. He gave everyone a fair chance to come clean and they refused.
His press release of a "smooth transition" did not include the word, "concede" as he has no plans to do so. Rather, there will be a smooth transition of power to his new cabinet, staff and Vice President, General Flynn.

The rally in DC was an awesome event
For what it's worth
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 12, 2021, 04:12:37 PM
I hope there's not an ounce of truth to that and I'm not clicking on any of the links to find out
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: stooges44 on January 12, 2021, 04:30:48 PM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/extremists-move-secret-line-channels-plan-inauguration-day-d-c-n1253876
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aradisc on January 12, 2021, 04:45:00 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 12, 2021, 07:55:49 PM
IMHO, required reading, and maybe needs to be stickied on to of the politics board

https://mishpacha.com/gone-missing/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 08:10:21 PM
IMHO, required reading, and maybe needs to be stickied on to of the politics board

https://mishpacha.com/gone-missing/
It's very well written, thank you. Did he promote this stance before the rest of the world turned on Trump?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 12, 2021, 08:39:14 PM
It's very well written, thank you. Did he promote this stance before the rest of the world turned on Trump?
You mean during the numerous Trump driven riots in the summer? Hmm no.
Quote
To be clear, much of this could be equally applied to the shocking and dangerous mob violence associated with numerous BLM and Antifa protests across the country. But the affiliation of many in our community for hakaras hatov or for broader reasons with the Trump movement (and, for the most part, not with BLM or Antifa) makes the timing of this essay more appropriate within the context of Wednesdays events.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 12, 2021, 10:44:29 PM
It's very well written, thank you.
If only you were capable of seeing that he's also talking about you here, it's just that you're at the opposite end of the horseshoe...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 12, 2021, 11:00:50 PM
It's very well written, thank you. Did he promote this stance before the rest of the world turned on Trump?

I'm not familiar with his writings, but if that's the question you have after reading it, you clearly missed the points, as whYME stated eloquently.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 11:01:43 PM
If only you were capable of seeing that he's also talking about you here, it's just that you're at the opposite end of the horseshoe...
I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but Donald Trump is outside the spectrum of legitimate opinion. He's a deranged criminal traitor who conned millions of people that he was somehow helping them (like Trump University). On most other political topics I don't have a strong or definitive opinion, I see merit on both side of the argument.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 12, 2021, 11:04:03 PM
I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but Donald Trump is outside the spectrum of legitimate opinion. He's a deranged criminal traitor who conned millions of people that he was somehow helping them (like Trump University). On most other political topics I don't have a strong or definitive opinion, I see merit on both side of the argument.

Exhibit A, your honor.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2021, 11:04:10 PM


On most other political topics I don't have a strong or definitive opinion, I see merit on both side of the argument.
Says the self described opinionated contrarian

Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Shaya E on January 12, 2021, 11:13:30 PM
Says the self described opinionated contrarian

Actually, I describe myself the same way and I'm also not too opinionated on certain things. There actually is a very good reason for it. See, in most situations I really understand where both sides are coming from. So when I hear someone dismiss any side of any controversy as out of hand I'll immediately start explaining (not defending) the other side. However, there are some things I do really believe one way or another and my posts over the last few days reflect that.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 11:17:23 PM
Exhibit A, your honor.
Okay, what Bin Laden is to you, Trump is to me.

 
Says the self described opinionated contrarian


Exactly. I try to see the contrary view and argue for it, and end up believing there is truth to both.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2021, 11:18:21 PM
Okay, what Bin Laden is to you, Trump is to me.

 Exactly. I try to see the contrary view and argue for it, and end up believing there is truth to both.
That isn't what you meant when you said it. At the time I disagree with it. Still do.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2021, 11:20:55 PM


Okay, what Bin Laden is to you, Trump is to me.

I understand why you feel that way, but you should consider that once you do this confirmation bias will make you see things that may not have actually hastened the way you think.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 11:22:19 PM
That isn't what you meant when you said it.
Yes it was.
 
I understand why you feel that way, but you should consider that once you do this confirmation bias will make you see things that may not have actually hastened the way you think.
I'm aware.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 12, 2021, 11:45:03 PM
It's very well written, thank you. Did he promote this stance before the rest of the world turned on Trump?
:o Is that want you see in this article? I think you didn't read it properly. I am not familiar with all his writings, but I can 99% tell you that this was Rav Lopiansky's position all along. What he says is simple basics and applies a year ago, too. Why would you think his position changed? Eytan Kobre's didn't either.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2021, 11:46:03 PM
Yes it was.
 I'm aware.
Why would that affect shidduchim?

Yet you continue to state this bias times a million as fact very regularly. This should lead you to question whether you really try to understand the other side of things.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
I can 99% tell you that this was Rav Lopiansky's position all along.
Then I'm impressed, thank you. I don't know the first thing about him but was curious if he had the courage to write like this while much of the frum community was still head over heel infatuated with DJT. He doesn't need my approval, but I respect him more now.

Why would that affect shidduchim?
It was more of a joke.

Yet you continue to state this bias times a million as fact very regularly. This should lead you to question whether you really try to understand the other side of things.
Being biased doesn't mean it isn't true.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2021, 11:51:33 PM



Being biased doesn't mean it isn't true.

Of course, but the more bias the more likely it is that you see something that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yelped on January 12, 2021, 11:54:42 PM
Then I'm impressed, thank you. I don't know the first thing about him but was curious if he had the courage to write like this while much of the frum community was still head over heel infatuated with DJT. He doesn't need my approval, but I respect him more now.
That was always the position of the frum community until Trump messed things up among the amon am... I guess I grew up differently...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 12, 2021, 11:58:05 PM

Of course, but the more bias the more likely it is that you see something that doesn't exist.
And after 4 years of arguing about it incessantly I'm more convinced than ever that I was right and it wasn't the bias. Sure, I could still be wrong, but I don't think I'm blinded on this one. Much of the Republican Party is now agreeing, although you'll discount that as being a political ploy.

That was always the position of the frum community until Trump messed things up among the amon am... I guess I grew up differently...
Agreed. The scariest thought of all to me is how foreseeable it appears for somebody to captivate the public so strongly. Trump happened to like us, but we are usually the first to be targeted, this galus is far from safe.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 13, 2021, 12:07:38 AM
:o Is that want you see in this article? I think you didn't read it properly. I am not familiar with all his writings, but I can 99% tell you that this was Rav Lopiansky's position all along. What he says is simple basics and applies a year ago, too. Why would you think his position changed? Eytan Kobre's didn't either.
I agree that everything he surely has not changed his position on this topic just because of the events of the last few weeks. But I can't help but feel much of klal yisroel needed to hear (and accept) this message loud and clear from all our rabbonim for months already, or whenever these problems really started to take root.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 09:05:37 AM


And after 4 years of arguing about it incessantly I'm more convinced than ever that I was right and it wasn't the bias. Sure, I could still be wrong, but I don't think I'm blinded on this one. Much of the Republican Party is now agreeing, although you'll discount that as being a political ploy.
Agreed. The scariest thought of all to me is how foreseeable it appears for somebody to captivate the public so strongly. Trump happened to like us, but we are usually the first to be targeted, this galus is far from safe.

Don't forget that you are seeking the current events through the same colored lenses which have only gotten darker. This is VERY apparent in many of your recent posts.

The second point is VERY concerning. Seeing Jews marching with proud boys was very disconcerting. I have been upset at how some frum Jews joined the Trump cult and have mentioned this over the past few years.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 13, 2021, 09:37:36 AM

Don't forget that you are seeking the current events through the same colored lenses which have only gotten darker. This is VERY apparent in many of your recent posts.

The second point is VERY concerning. Seeing Jews marching with proud boys was very disconcerting. I have been upset at how some frum Jews joined the Trump cult and have mentioned this over the past few years.

And you haven't been the only one, and all that has gotten you and others is being branded Trumspters and Trumpkins because you didn't accept the entire left-wing agenda along with it.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 13, 2021, 09:46:56 AM
Hamodia put out an editorial from Mrs. Ruth Lichtenstein. https://hamodia.com/2021/01/12/where-do-we-go-from-here-2/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 10:06:03 AM
And you haven't been the only one, and all that has gotten you and others is being branded Trumspters and Trumpkins because you didn't accept the entire left-wing agenda along with it.

Which shows that it had almost nothing to do with Trump and almost everything to do with the leftist agenda.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 01:11:56 PM
And you haven't been the only one, and all that has gotten you and others is being branded Trumspters and Trumpkins because you didn't accept the entire left-wing agenda along with it.
I don't think anybody here ever called @aygart a Trumpster or Trumpkin. I believe it's simply not true.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 01:20:33 PM
I don't think anybody here ever called @aygart a Trumpster or Trumpkin. I believe it's simply not true.
CV has many times.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 01:25:11 PM
CV has many times.
OK, anybody else?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 01:27:55 PM
OK, anybody else?
I've got no idea. The amount of people on this forum who accuse others in general of being trumpsters, is probably about 5, definitely no more than 10. So you're not getting much of a sample size. I believe @Yehuda57 was not specifically referring to this forum.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 01:33:34 PM
In the poll, there are 3 members who accurately predicted Democrats would win GA, and 29 members who predicted a Republican would win. Even the most allegedly transactional Trump supporters clearly did not see things correctly, and this election has zero allegations of fraud. Even the epitome of political neutrality @aygart himself attacked me when I correctly predicted the $2000 check initiative would seal the deal for the dems.

Yes, the 3 members who predicted the D win may have been biased, but that bias did not cause them to misjudge reality.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 01:41:17 PM
In the poll, there are 3 members who accurately predicted Democrats would win GA, and 29 members who predicted a Republican would win. Even the most allegedly transactional Trump supporters clearly did not see things correctly, and this election has zero allegations of fraud. Even the epitome of political neutrality @aygart himself attacked me when I correctly predicted the $2000 check initiative would seal the deal for the dems.

Yes, the 3 members who predicted the D win may have been biased, but that bias did not cause them to misjudge reality.
The whole idea of "predictions" is misleading.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 01:57:12 PM
The whole idea of "predictions" is misleading.
Maybe in the context of the GA elections that were pretty close, but the national election wasn't, and predictions were a pretty sound judgment based on high quality data available. How many here predicted Biden would win? And before you say it was my bias, I also predicted Clinton would lose.

Yes, I gave Biden a 70% chance of winning Texas, but I still think that was sufficiently supported by data, and Trump won it by a smaller margin than Ohio.

The total margin in Texas was 631,000, and those who think amnesty for illegal immigrants won't be a major issue for the GOP, are not merely biased but completely blind. There are 1.7m illegal latinos in Texas, 39% turnout and 70% Democrat vote narrows the gap down to under 400k. There are still other factors at play like the growth of TX cities that are democrat strongholds - Atlanta swung GA.


https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/TX

https://www.unidosus.org/issues/voting/articles/latino-vote-texas
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
Maybe in the context of the GA elections that were pretty close
In the poll, there are 3 members who accurately predicted Democrats would win GA, and 29 members who predicted a Republican would win. Even the most allegedly transactional Trump supporters clearly did not see things correctly, and this election has zero allegations of fraud. Even the epitome of political neutrality @aygart himself attacked me when I correctly predicted the $2000 check initiative would seal the deal for the dems.

Yes, the 3 members who predicted the D win may have been biased, but that bias did not cause them to misjudge reality.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 02:02:38 PM
The amount of people on this forum who accuse others in general of being trumpsters, is probably about 5, definitely no more than 10.
But there are far more people accusing us of TDS. So it would seem the Trumpsters name calling is silencing Biden supporters a lot more than the Biden supporters name calling of Trumpsters. I also think TDS is far more derogatory than Trumpster, but if others thing differently I will refrain from using that term.

Of course, it's all in the name of freedom of speech values and everybody's inherent right to voice their opinion...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 02:14:02 PM

The party of the Anti semites
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 13, 2021, 02:19:25 PM

The party of the Anti semites

This quote does as much to quell claims of anti Semitism as Steven King quoting MLK would quell claims of racism against him. But we're supposed to think this post isn't idiotic because you were better at predicitions than 29 (!) people on the forum?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 13, 2021, 02:21:48 PM
The party of the Anti semites

Nah. A two faced party that will quote whatever feel-good message it can, to advance its agendas. I guess that's true of both parties and all politicians. Same for anti-Semitism, we unfortunately have that in the US on both sides of the aisle.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 02:22:11 PM
In the poll, there are 3 members who accurately predicted Democrats would win GA, and 29 members who predicted a Republican would win. Even the most allegedly transactional Trump supporters clearly did not see things correctly, and this election has zero allegations of fraud. Even the epitome of political neutrality @aygart himself attacked me when I correctly predicted the $2000 check initiative would seal the deal for the dems.

Yes, the 3 members who predicted the D win may have been biased, but that bias did not cause them to misjudge reality.
I did not call out a prediction of a win. I called out those who said it was guaranteed. Considering that Perdue lost by fewer than 50,000 votes out of over 5,000,000 I was absolutely correct about that and anyone who felt it was guaranteed was dead wrong. As I wrote at the time when you said how we will see in few days, just because things turn out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.
Even the epitome of political neutrality @aygart himself
WHOA! 8)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 02:24:54 PM
OK, anybody else?
YES! Many times! (I am not referring to CM, CV, etc.)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
This quote does as much to quell claims of anti Semitism as Steven King quoting MLK would quell claims of racism against him. But we're supposed to think this post isn't idiotic because you were better at predicitions than 29 (!) people on the forum?
Nobody claimed it quelled anything. It's a jest. In Iran they don't quote Israeli songs.

You are more than welcome to think of me as an idiot.

Nah. A two faced party that will quote whatever feel-good message it can, to advance its agendas. I guess that's true of both parties and all politicians. Same for anti-Semitism, we unfortunately have that in the US on both sides of the aisle.

True. One side has many more guns, but the other side has much more influence. We are never safe.

YES! Many times! (I am not referring to CM, CV, etc.)
Then they are wrong, and if I ever did, I apologize.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 13, 2021, 02:29:56 PM

You are more than welcome to think of me as an idiot.

I never called you an idiot
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on January 13, 2021, 02:31:32 PM
You are more than welcome to think of me as an idiot.

I never called you an idiot

The two are not mutually exclusive... :D
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 02:39:57 PM
Then they are wrong, and if I ever did, I apologize.
They absolutely are wrong. I don't recall you ever doing so.

Here is one of my earliest posts about Trump.


Over this week a came up with the first semi-rational reason I was able to think of for why someone would vote for Trump. It has nothing to do with the establishment or anything of the sort. This country is being overrun by a cancer call political correctness. The PC police make people scared to say anything because it may offend someone. We have seen people destroyed simply due to a political opinion that some groups called discriminatory. People feel that Trump is the chemotherapy for this cancer. He may end up being a horrible president, but no one ever saidchemo is pleasant. His bad p[olicies can be reversed by future presidents but if we lost our freedom of expression we lost our country.

ETA: I personally would probably support Cruz, but I finally came up with some reason why someone would vote for Trump.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yitzgar on January 13, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
They absolutely are wrong. I don't recall you ever doing so.

Here is one of my earliest posts about Trump.
Looks like the pc crackdown has gotten worse...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 02:57:59 PM
They absolutely are wrong. I don't recall you ever doing so.

Here is one of my earliest posts about Trump.
Well said. I think his anti-PC message resonated very well and cause many voters to identify with him even though he didnt do anything to change it. Too many Trump voters vote because it feels like their side, without judging the actual results. E.g. Trump is anti-BLM so we should vote for him because hes anti-BLM, forgetting the fact him being President did nothing to stop BLM.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 03:03:33 PM
Looks like the pc crackdown has gotten worse...
As did BLM & Iran aggression. Sometimes somebody who takes too strong of a position just triggers a more forceful resistance. Murphy who was nice did much more to root out Covid spread than Cuomo who took a stronger stance. The bamboo that bends is stronger than the oak that resists.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 03:07:43 PM
Looks like the pc crackdown has gotten worse...
How so?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 03:09:10 PM
As did BLM & Iran aggression. Sometimes somebody who takes too strong of a position just triggers a more forceful resistance. Murphy who was nice did much more to root out Covid spread than Cuomo who took a stronger stance. The bamboo that bends is stronger than the oak that resists.
Agreed. Trump is exactly that in the other direction. Select more of that from the happenings you are so gleeful about.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 03:23:33 PM
Agreed. Trump is exactly that in the other direction. Select more of that from the happenings you are so gleeful about.
Being incited to commit crimes doesn't make it less of a crime. You wanna say the dems share blame? No problem. But Trump is still responsible.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 13, 2021, 03:27:12 PM
In Iran they don't quote Israeli songs.

But they do spend plenty of time touting their support of the local Jews as proof that they are anti-Israel, not anti-semitic.

(Disclaimer:  I don't know what the tweet you posted says)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 03:29:05 PM
But they do spend plenty of time touting their support of the local Jews as proof that they are anti-Israel, not anti-semitic.
A distinction we should appreciate.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 03:38:41 PM
Being incited to commit crimes doesn't make it less of a crime. You wanna say the dems share blame? No problem. But Trump is still responsible.
Enough with Trump already! Just keep expecting more of the same as each side keeps inciting the other.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 03:39:28 PM
A distinction we should appreciate.
If and when it exists. Haven't yet found any cases of that.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 03:41:40 PM
Enough with Trump already!
I was literally replying to a post where you discussed Trump

Just keep expecting more of the same as each side keeps inciting the other.
Yes, but hopefully the boundaries of accepted conduct will be narrower than they currently are.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 13, 2021, 03:52:28 PM
I was literally replying to a post where you discussed Trump
Yes, but hopefully the boundaries of accepted conduct will be narrower than they currently are.
LOL on both. I was discussing how it came to be that Trump was president notwhether or not he is to blame. Of course he is to blame, but considering that all he did was incite that blame only goes as far as incitement can be blamed!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 13, 2021, 05:28:42 PM
In the poll, there are 3 members who accurately predicted Democrats would win GA, and 29 members who predicted a Republican would win. Even the most allegedly transactional Trump supporters clearly did not see things correctly, and this election has zero allegations of fraud. Even the epitome of political neutrality @aygart himself attacked me when I correctly predicted the $2000 check initiative would seal the deal for the dems.

Yes, the 3 members who predicted the D win may have been biased, but that bias did not cause them to misjudge reality.
I would've changed my answer, if the poll would've allowed me to, after Trump stabbed the Republican Party in the back by suggesting the $2000 stimulus checks. My vote was cast before that election-altering idiocy.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 07:05:23 PM
I would've changed my answer, if the poll would've allowed me to, after Trump stabbed the Republican Party in the back by suggesting the $2000 stimulus checks. My vote was cast before that election-altering idiocy.
The high black turnout was consistent and started before that, so there's an argument to be made it didn't actually have that much of an impact, because everybody who could be motivated by it was already motivated enough by other causes.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 07:45:51 PM
But there are far more people accusing us of TDS. So it would seem the Trumpsters name calling is silencing Biden supporters a lot more than the Biden supporters name calling of Trumpsters. I also think TDS is far more derogatory than Trumpster, but if others thing differently I will refrain from using that term.

Of course, it's all in the name of freedom of speech values and everybody's inherent right to voice their opinion...
What does that have to do with anything?
The point still stands.
And you haven't been the only one, and all that has gotten you and others is being branded Trumspters and Trumpkins because you didn't accept the entire left-wing agenda along with it.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 07:49:07 PM
What does that have to do with anything?
The point still stands.
It appears his group is doing it to others more than it is done to them. 
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 07:50:31 PM
It appears his group is doing it to others more than it is done to them.
Why is it his group?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 07:57:19 PM
Why is it his group?
Does it matter? He accused members of name calling Trumpsters and I pointed out those whom he says are being name-called, appear to be name-calling more than they are being name-called. 
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: chinagel on January 13, 2021, 08:18:19 PM
Does it matter? He accused members of name calling Trumpsters and I pointed out those whom he says are being name-called, appear to be name-calling more than they are being name-called.
Not exactly what happened, look back a page or two. Eitherway, if those who he says are being called names aren't the ones doing the name calling, it's pretty relevant.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 10:07:11 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 13, 2021, 11:47:53 PM
Interesting coincidence that so many of the terrorists had people in their personal lives that couldn't wait to turn them in (HT @thedweck on twitter)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: biobook on January 14, 2021, 12:17:08 AM
Interesting coincidence that so many of the terrorists had people in their personal lives that couldn't wait to turn them in (HT @thedweck on twitter)
I noticed that too!
They missed Rule #38: Stay on good terms with your ex-spouse.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 12:19:18 AM
They missed Rule #38: Stay on good terms with your ex-spouse.
Right after Rule #37, don't broadcast your crime
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 01:21:40 AM
Out of curiosity, what is the legitimate explanation for Rudy Guliani's call for 'Trial By Combat'? I just listened to the speech & genuinely can't think of anything it could've meant but violence, although I guess it isn't technically incitement if he believed it wasn't likely to occur.

Is there a possibility Trump stiffed and cut off Guliani because he already agreed to be a cooperating witness? We know the DC AG is considering charging DJT and Donald Jr. Rudy seems like the weakest link, he is the most exposed, knows a lot, seems pretty unscrupulous, and understand the law well enough to act quickly.



https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/what-trump-knew-potential-criminal-charges-in-d-c-sends-signal-that-trump-and-allies-cant-pardon-their-way-out/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 01:40:26 AM
Shuls in the 5 towns condemning the 5TJT

I don't remember who posted it originally but worth reposting this incredible article about Hashkafa on politics. https://mishpacha.com/gone-missing/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 14, 2021, 11:11:05 AM
How it started
This is smart, public ID campaigns have never gone wrong before. Let's encourage this as much as we can.
Sitting US senator
Right because sitting US senators have not been accused of, say, incitement. I mean, the public doxing innocents as terrorists might lead to a suicide or two, but big picture, right?
Big difference between senator speaking on his own and senator quoting information from the FBI.
Senator or FBI, it's a stupid idea that has completely destroyed innocent lives in the past.

How it's going

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/trolls-wrongly-accused-retired-firefighter-capitol-riot-murder
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 14, 2021, 11:14:24 AM
How it started
How it's going

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/trolls-wrongly-accused-retired-firefighter-capitol-riot-murder
Wow!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
?s=24

I don't remember who posted it originally but worth reposting this incredible article about Hashkafa on politics. https://mishpacha.com/gone-missing/ (https://mishpacha.com/gone-missing/)
This is what they are calling אור לגוים?!?!??!  :o Sounds like the liberal interpretation of it to do their version of social justice. Are those who took out the ad even frum?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 11:21:20 AM
How it started
How it's going

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/trolls-wrongly-accused-retired-firefighter-capitol-riot-murder

Anyone shocked by this is not being honest with themselves and should take some time for introspection.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 14, 2021, 11:38:32 AM
Wow!
Anyone shocked by this is not being honest with themselves and should take some time for introspection.
Can you give me some tips for proper introspection?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 11:45:25 AM
Can you give me some tips for proper introspection?
Learn musar.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 14, 2021, 12:01:38 PM
How it started
How it's going

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/trolls-wrongly-accused-retired-firefighter-capitol-riot-murder

Can there be any legal consequences for those who spread this? I guess if Lin Wood hadn't gone off the deep end he could have helped...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 14, 2021, 12:05:48 PM
This is what they are calling אור לגוים?!?!??!  :o Sounds like the liberal interpretation of it to do their version of social justice. Are those who took out the ad even frum?

I mean, on one hand it's an anonymous pashkevil. On the other hand I'm all for Jews standing proudly, and they are doing that ... anonymously?  \_(ツ)_/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on January 14, 2021, 12:07:30 PM
Can there be any legal consequences for those who spread this? I guess if Lin Wood hadn't gone off the deep end he could have helped...
It's very hard to win a defamation case in the US.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 14, 2021, 12:20:58 PM
Can there be any legal consequences for those who spread this? I guess if Lin Wood hadn't gone off the deep end he could have helped...

It's fine, Twitter is very worried about public safety, so they'll definitely ban or suspend anyone that posts accusations.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 12:24:34 PM
Are those who took out the ad even frum?
My guess was the publisher printed it under guise of an ad. Either way the publisher had discretion to publish it or not, no need to also assume somebody else was involved.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 14, 2021, 01:21:36 PM
How it started
How it's going

https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/trolls-wrongly-accused-retired-firefighter-capitol-riot-murder
The original tweet in the article has a followup. This part I theoretically agree with. Unfortunately, the ID'ing part is rarely not followed by the mob harassment part - and the tweeter had to know it was gonna happen.
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 01:31:29 PM
The original tweet in the article has a followup. This part I theoretically agree with. Unfortunately, the ID'ing part is rarely not followed by the mob harassment part - and the tweeter had to know it was gonna happen.
Invalid Tweet ID
"Twitter, do your thing"
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 14, 2021, 01:48:20 PM
"Twitter, do your thing"
What are you pointing out that I haven't already said?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 02:08:00 PM
What are you pointing out that I haven't already said?
Why do you think I am? He/r saying "Twitter do your thing" means asking outright to identify PUBLICLY without a full responsible investigation. THat is a direct contradiction to her followup. The followup is garbage to try and deflect his/her responsibility for ruining someones life!
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 14, 2021, 02:20:33 PM
what is the legitimate explanation for Rudy Guliani's call for 'Trial By Combat'? I just listened to the speech...
You're probably the only one here who listened (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji12.png)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 02:22:54 PM
You're probably the only one here who listened (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji12.png)
So did the rest assume Rudy meant violence or understood it differently?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 14, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
Why do you think I am? He/r saying "Twitter do your thing" means asking outright to identify PUBLICLY without a full responsible investigation. THat is a direct contradiction to her followup. The followup is garbage to try and deflect his/her responsibility for ruining someones life!
Well, they pulled the tweets - when you play with fire you get burned - so I can't read back the actual text of the second tweet, but I fully agree that it's a deflection. And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you mean the posting on twitter is the problem, not the investigating. The FBI set up a page specifically for info on the capitol riots and internet sleuths have frequently been instrumental in providing law enforcement with info. The problem comes - and it so frequently does - when someone publicly says (ie tweets or posts on other platforms) this is the person we've been looking for, which even more frequently leads to these types of harassment. This tweeter did not mistakenly ID the guy, they just pointed out that the individual pictured likely committed crimes (which was true). And BTW, this type of thing happens (less frequently) with legit news media as well, and even with law enforcement (perhaps least frequently). Richard Jewell comes to mind (the movie of that title they made about the story from last year was really good). The issue is mistakenly ID'ing someone - and of course the harassment itself (even if the ID was correct).
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 03:03:47 PM
And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you mean the posting on twitter is the problem, not the investigating.
I am not sure how else to possibly understand
"Twitter, do your thing"
than to be complaining about the use of Twitter AND SPECIFICALLY HIS/HER ASKING PEOPLE TO IDENTIFY PUBLICLY ON TWITTER.

The problem comes - and it so frequently does - when someone publicly says (ie tweets or posts on other platforms) this is the person we've been looking for, which even more frequently leads to these types of harassment. This tweeter did not mistakenly ID the guy, they just pointed out that the individual pictured likely committed crimes (which was true).
My recollection is that the original tweet also had a video of the accused person at a different protest.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 03:09:07 PM

Not saying nothing was taken out of context, but still chilling
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 14, 2021, 03:45:26 PM
I am not sure how else to possibly understandthan to be complaining about the use of Twitter AND SPECIFICALLY HIS/HER ASKING PEOPLE TO IDENTIFY PUBLICLY ON TWITTER.
My recollection is that the original tweet also had a video of the accused person at a different protest.

The tweet had 2 different pics from 1/6, no videos. Shockingly, the post that seems to have first mistakenly identified him is actually still up on twitter.

The reason why publicly ID'in (say, on twitter) is bad - aside from the potential of ID'ing the wrong person - is because literally the only reason to do that instead of just sending the info to the FBI is because you want people to see what a good sleuth you are. And that's just pathetic. I will say that I've seen a lot of good collaboration with these things on twitter/reddit/etc, but make you group of co-sleuths or whatever and take it somewhere private, and share your results with law enforcement, not with the twitter mob.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 04:00:40 PM
The tweet had 2 different pics from 1/6, no videos. Shockingly, the post that seems to have first mistakenly identified him is actually still up on twitter.

The reason why publicly ID'in (say, on twitter) is bad - aside from the potential of ID'ing the wrong person - is because literally the only reason to do that instead of just sending the info to the FBI is because you want people to see what a good sleuth you are. And that's just pathetic. I will say that I've seen a lot of good collaboration with these things on twitter/reddit/etc, but make you group of co-sleuths or whatever and take it somewhere private, and share your results with law enforcement, not with the twitter mob.
EXACTLY! don't say "Twitter do your thing"
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 04:43:02 PM
Here is the criminal complaint against the REAL perp who was actually arrested

https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1353926/download

In a footnote:
3 During the course of this investigation, the FBI received an anonymous tip that another individual was the subject in the still photographs referenced above. The individual resided in Illinois. Upon further investigation, the FBI learned that the individuals name did not appear on flight manifests to the D.C. area for the relevant time frame. Additionally, the logs from License Plate Readers in the District of Columbia did not indicate that the individuals vehicle entered the District of Columbia during the relevant time frame. Law enforcement also learned through that individuals attorney that the individual had an alibi for the time of the incident at the United States Capitol building. Finally, upon examining photographs of the individual and comparing them to the still photographs of the footage from the Capitol grounds referenced above, there are differences between the individuals facial features and the facial features of the person in the still photographs, specifically, the individuals nose appears to be different and the individuals eyebrow shape also appears different.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 14, 2021, 05:07:32 PM
... the individuals eyebrow shape also appears different.
Lol, the eyebrow difference was the first thing I noticed.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
Apparently they are using cell location

Par 20 in the complaint here
https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2021/01/former-cleveland-schools-therapist-arrested-on-federal-charges-involving-attack-at-us-capitol.html
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 14, 2021, 05:20:32 PM
Apparently they are using cell location

Par 20 in the complaint here
https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2021/01/former-cleveland-schools-therapist-arrested-on-federal-charges-involving-attack-at-us-capitol.html
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: ah giten on January 14, 2021, 10:23:40 PM
Shocker:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/left-wing-known-agitator-charged-for-alleged-role-in-capitol-breach
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 14, 2021, 11:07:39 PM
Right after Rule #37, don't broadcast your crime
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 12:08:20 AM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 15, 2021, 12:56:47 AM
Apparently they are using cell location

Par 20 in the complaint here
https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2021/01/former-cleveland-schools-therapist-arrested-on-federal-charges-involving-attack-at-us-capitol.html
If only they would use all these resources to detect and discover the numerous shooters in NYC who were never arrested during the recent spike, instead of going all after a 50 yr old woman therapist who lost her mind that day to mob mentality and ENTERED the capital building ::)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 01:04:17 AM
If only they would use all these resources to detect and discover the numerous shooters in NYC who were never arrested during the recent spike, instead of going all after a 50 yr old woman therapist who lost her mind that day to mob mentality and ENTERED the capital building ::)
Shooting is an attack on one person, sieging the capitol is an attack on 300,000,000.

It's also infinitely easier when there are automatic grounds to subpoena anybody connected to the Congress cell network. IINM the 4th amendment won't allow you to question somebody just because they were known to be in a location where there was a murder.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: EliJelly on January 15, 2021, 01:16:49 AM
It's also infinitely easier when there are automatic grounds to subpoena anybody connected to the Congress cell network. IINM the 4th amendment won't allow you to question somebody just because they were known to be in a location where there was a murder.
All fine, but one is a danger to the public every second not being behind bars and the other one can add to society the day after.

Shooting is an attack on one person, sieging the capitol is an attack on 300,000,000.
In the media's language, in reality she was a mere trespasser protesting.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 01:33:54 AM

Great thread from a GOP congresswoman
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 01:35:55 AM
How it started
How it's going
How its going Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 15, 2021, 01:37:56 AM
If only they would use all these resources to detect and discover the numerous shooters in NYC who were never arrested during the recent spike, instead of going all after a 50 yr old woman therapist who lost her mind that day to mob mentality and ENTERED the capital building ::)
https://arcdigital.media/qanon-woke-up-the-real-deep-state-72bbfcb79488
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 15, 2021, 01:38:46 AM
How its going Invalid Tweet ID

How many innocents is it worth destroying to catch 1 guilty?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 15, 2021, 01:43:05 AM
There's nothing wrong with gathering info to pass on to the FBI, which is what Schatz was suggesting. That's not the same as doxing.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 15, 2021, 08:31:46 AM
There's nothing wrong with gathering info to pass on to the FBI, which is what Schatz was suggesting. That's not the same as doxing.
"Twitter do your thing"
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 12:10:02 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 01:23:09 PM
Right after Rule #37, don't broadcast your crime
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 02:48:18 PM
All fine, but one is a danger to the public every second not being behind bars and the other one can add to society the day after.
One might be a more immediate and likely danger, but the other is a piece of a much larger threat to many more people. Lack of deterrence will make the next attempt worse.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 15, 2021, 02:56:29 PM
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 19, 2021, 10:37:08 AM
ProPublica took the archives were uploaded before Parler went offline and created a timeline of videos:
https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 19, 2021, 03:34:47 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-conspiracy-charges-filed-over-capitol-riot-11611080191
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 20, 2021, 05:30:29 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsNEq4-XYAEfNS-?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Afrages6 on January 20, 2021, 07:03:04 PM
But lets please remember that there was gunfire. And there was only gunfire from one side.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Toasted on January 20, 2021, 08:33:40 PM
But lets please remember that there was gunfire. And there was only gunfire from one side.
Yeah they came armed to their teeth to overthrow the government and kill everyone. But they changed their mind because noone shot at them first.
???
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 21, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
Yeah they came armed to their teeth to overthrow the government and kill everyone. But they changed their mind because noone shot at them first.
???

We don't need to speculate about if they had weapons or what they might have done. What they actually did was bad enough. Avoid these strawman arguments that supporters of these extremists build to obfuscate the issues. I can't get over how people in this forum are among the supporters.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 21, 2021, 12:21:20 PM
I can't get over how people in this forum are among the supporters.

+1000000000000
Why in the world are people here defending white supremacists. They are the ones who did that stuff.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 21, 2021, 12:29:15 PM
+1000000000000
Why in the world are people here defending white supremacists. They are the ones who did that stuff.

That what over the past 5 years the label white supremacist has effectively meant "somebody who disagrees with the leftists agenda," or "anybody who supports DJT" might have something to do with it...
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: skyguy918 on January 21, 2021, 12:49:59 PM
That what over the past 5 years the label white supremacist has effectively meant "somebody who disagrees with the leftists agenda," or "anybody who supports DJT" might have something to do with it...
Do you hear yourself? Is there nothing you won't defend just to 'own the libs'? It's okay to use nuance in your arguments/worldview. The world is not black/white, left/right.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: yos9694 on January 21, 2021, 12:54:38 PM
That what over the past 5 years the label white supremacist has effectively meant "somebody who disagrees with the leftists agenda," or "anybody who supports DJT" might have something to do with it...

Yes and that's because of the silent majority. People who supported Trump and continued to support him even as his vocal base threw away any pretenses of decency. Not once did the silent majority stand up and say we are supporting Trump for x,y, and z and do not want to be lumped together with the racists.

They made their bed and now are lying in it. If you're in this group get out nos
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: aygart on January 21, 2021, 12:56:53 PM
That what over the past 5 years the label white supremacist has effectively meant "somebody who disagrees with the leftists agenda," or "anybody who supports DJT" might have something to do with it...
And here I always thought you were smarter than to support neo-nazis just because some rag you label as fake news dumps you together.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 21, 2021, 01:21:33 PM
Do you hear yourself? Is there nothing you won't defend just to 'own the libs'? It's okay to use nuance in your arguments/worldview. The world is not black/white, left/right.
Who did I defend?

He asked a question and I gave a possible answer.

To be fair, I haven't seen anyone defending white supremacists, I was taking a guess at a possible explanation.

I don't know what you thought I was saying, so I'll spell it out more clearly. For the past five years anyone who supported DJT -or even those generally opposed to DJT but against the far left agenda- have been labeled white supremacists. So therefore it's very possible that somebody defending them is unaware that they're actual white supremacists, not just Trump supporters.

But on to the actual argument here, am I misunderstanding or are you guys saying that somebody who agrees with what was done (And I haven't actually seen that here, at least not after the first hours when nobody really knew yet what was actually going down, but I'll trust you guys that it's here) should condemn it simply because of who did it? So basically if someone is a bad person then anything they participate in must automatically be condemned.
But I'm the one who can't use nuance here.  ::)
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 21, 2021, 01:23:36 PM
And here I always thought you were smarter than to support neo-nazis just because some rag you label as fake news dumps you together.
As I said in previous post. I'm not supporting neo-Nazis, I'm simply suggesting that somebody who is supporting them might be thinking that just like he's being falsely accused of being a neo-Nazi, so are these guys.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: whYME on January 21, 2021, 01:26:30 PM
Yes and that's because of the silent majority. People who supported Trump and continued to support him even as his vocal base threw away any pretenses of decency. Not once did the silent majority stand up and say we are supporting Trump for x,y, and z and do not want to be lumped together with the racists.

They made their bed and now are lying in it. If you're in this group get out nos
This post is so blatantly wrong and false that I can't decide if it calls for being totally ignored or for a @Yehuda57-esque rant in response.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 21, 2021, 01:30:22 PM
This post is so blatantly wrong and false that I can't decide if it calls for being totally ignored or for a @Yehuda57-esque rant in response.

I mean, there are literally hundreds of such posts on this forum alone, so yeah, what will one more help?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: zh cohen on January 21, 2021, 02:00:47 PM
So basically if someone is a bad person then anything they participate in must automatically be condemned.

Also, if someone is a bad person they must have done everything that they are accused of doing, regardless of the lack of (or contrary) evidence.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Toasted on January 21, 2021, 02:08:07 PM
+1000000000000
Why in the world are people here defending white supremacists. They are the ones who did that stuff.
Was your account hacked by CM or did you run out of koolaid?

WaPo's obsession with trying to overdramatize this lousy 'coup' has nothing to do with white supremacists. I'm sure you can finish my thought without much effort.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 18, 2021, 07:58:18 PM
I noticed that too!
They missed Rule #38: Stay on good terms with your ex-spouse.

Thought of this post again. Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 19, 2021, 04:58:58 PM


Spontaneous protest
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: gozalim on February 20, 2021, 11:47:13 PM


Spontaneous protest
without getting into the nitty gritty legals, the more they planned, the tougher to pin on him
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: AsherO on February 20, 2021, 11:55:03 PM
without getting into the nitty gritty legals, the more they planned, the tougher to pin on him

The more they planned it for days and weeks, the harder it is to pin it on anything Trump did on January 6th.

I should add, that I think these people should be persecuted to the full extent of the law, but I dont think that has anything to do with Trump.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on February 20, 2021, 11:58:32 PM
The more they planned it for days and weeks, the harder it is to pin it on anything Trump did on January 6th.

I should add, that I think these people should be persecuted to the full extent of the law, but I dont think that has anything to do with Trump.
It definitely has to do with Trump and the Big Lie but not his Jan 6th speech.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 21, 2021, 12:01:43 AM
It definitely has to do with Trump and the Big Lie but not his Jan 6th speech.

Et tu?

For the love of humanity, can you stop using the phrase The Big Lie?
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 21, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
It definitely has to do with Trump and the Big Lie but not his Jan 6th speech.
Some people having planned before Jan 6 doesn't mean other participants weren't incited on Jan 6.

And of course the Big Lie is an accurate and appropriate term.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: S209 on February 21, 2021, 12:03:07 AM
Et tu?
What term would you prefer?

ETA: Genuinely didnt know the origin of the term, just found out. Youre right, it is probably wrong to use it in this instance.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 21, 2021, 12:05:32 AM
What term would you prefer?

Anything that doesn't invoke Nazism or Nazi crimes to describe a modem day crime
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 21, 2021, 12:06:27 AM
Anything that doesn't invoke Nazism or Nazi crimes to describe a modem day crime
It does not invoke Nazism or nazi crimes.
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: YitzyS on February 21, 2021, 12:15:52 AM
Et tu?
Given that they seems to be canceling Shakespeare now, it would make sense that future editions of his work would replace "Et tu Brute" with "Et tu S209", with a more woke modern name (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/05/08/musk-grimes-baby-name/).
Title: Re: Civil War?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 05, 2021, 01:04:11 AM
https://www.spytalk.co/p/knock-knock-how-the-fbi-scares-off