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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: Wolf on March 01, 2012, 09:02:02 PM

Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Wolf on March 01, 2012, 09:02:02 PM
Dr. Phil's show Friday March 2nd!
http://drphil.com/shows/
Any idea where we watch the full episode after the show?
This is a heimeish lady Peri Reich who decided to look at other directions.
Would be interesting to hear what she has to say.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: JEWDA on March 02, 2012, 10:54:28 AM
She's just a copy cat of deborah feldman (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/marriage_holy_war_tyfZMjU8fVFyuOdIlvm6iI)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: boruch on March 02, 2012, 11:22:09 AM
She trying to get into the 'model world' and this is great free PR and get her 15 minutes of fame. Very unfortunate for the children though. The choice is hers but it's hard to watch people use parenthood for their personal benefit.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 02, 2012, 11:25:13 AM
She's just a copy cat of deborah feldman (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/marriage_holy_war_tyfZMjU8fVFyuOdIlvm6iI)


It doesn't seem like exactly the same thing.  And while yes she may be trying to use the media to her benefit for one way or another it still seems she has more valid points.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 02, 2012, 11:27:41 AM
It doesn't seem like exactly the same thing.  And while yes she may be trying to use the media to her benefit for one way or another it still seems she has more valid points.
She should lose her kids for wearing pants in public? I would say she does have a valid point.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: boruch on March 02, 2012, 11:34:06 AM
I agree she has valid points and I don't judge her decision to get custody of her children. I disagree with her decision to do it on such a public display. I don't see any gain in going on national TV with her story. It not beneficial for her children and it definitly won't help her in court either.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 02, 2012, 12:18:15 PM
She should lose her kids for wearing pants in public? I would say she does have a valid point.
No we are not that crazy in Lakewood. She is only saying half of the story. She is losing her kids because she has men coming in and out of her house. And because she has served her kids non kosher. Guys this is the U.S. justice system she is talking about that's taking away her kids not bais din. And they are doing so based on report by a psychologist that she and her lawyers agreed she go to.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Adam on March 02, 2012, 01:13:53 PM
Unless you know the FULL story and ALL the details perhaps it would be a good idea to keep all the comments to yourself.

Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 02, 2012, 05:24:36 PM
All I can say is that My wife was cringing watching this. As he still has all the accents of a Bais Yaakov teacher.
It's basically two sides of the story. But where did she move to? Is there a Shul nearby? How can they be brought up orthodox of they can't walk to Shul on shabbos.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 02, 2012, 05:37:20 PM




Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 02, 2012, 05:44:01 PM
Can she honestly claim that the entire lakewood and boro park is married off with no say in the matter...what a blatant lies.  And that if you get divorced you automatically lose your kids? Huh?
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 02, 2012, 05:49:45 PM
Can she honestly claim that the entire lakewood and boro park is married off with no say in the matter...what a blatant lies.  And that if you get divorced you automatically lose your kids? Huh?

Things might be based on the truth but seem grossly exaggerated.
Yes many times leaving your whole religion results in losing custody. And yes many girls are pressured into getting married.  Even in the Yeshivish world girls are pressured to get married young.
But everything is blown out of proportion with this girl.  And while many people do live in this extreme life the numbers are low compared to those who don't.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 02, 2012, 05:53:58 PM
Leaving your religion may cause a loss of custody, but getting a divorce doesn't.
And being pressured to marry young doesn't mean that the marriage is arranged and that you have no choice in your mate, that's not an exaggeration, it's a lie IMHO.
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 02, 2012, 05:57:03 PM
Leaving your religion may cause a loss of custody, but getting a divorce doesn't.
And being pressured to marry young doesn't mean that the marriage is arranged and that you have no choice in your mate, that's not an exaggeration, it's a lie IMHO.

Right.  I hear. Arranged marriages would be more just certain types of Chassidus. Everything is way too generalized.

Its just sad that all if this girls personal issues are so publicly broadcast now.


Anyways ... BH for us its about to Shabbos. May it be a peaceful one for all you fellow DDFers. 
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 02, 2012, 06:10:47 PM
After watching the clips this IMHO is a girl that has been hurt and now is lashing out with anger. I am liking this Rabbi more every time I see him speak. I bet he is ruffling a lot of feathers in the Jewish community.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 07:51:46 PM
After watching the clips this IMHO is a girl that has been hurt and now is lashing out with anger. I am liking this Rabbi more every time I see him speak. I bet he is ruffling a lot of feathers in the Jewish community.

+1  She seems VERY angry. Her boyfriend not as much.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: JEWDA on March 03, 2012, 07:55:11 PM
She is definitly the weirdest person I ever heard on TV. She doesnt even know how to talk properly in front of an audience. Full of lies, thats all I could say. Another Deborah Feldman. Next she's gona write a book.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 03, 2012, 07:56:28 PM
She is definitly the weirdest person I ever heard on TV. She doesnt even know how to talk properly in front of an audience. Full of lies, thats all I could say. Another Deborah Feldman. Next she's gona write a book.
The strange thing is that both women would be more believable without the lies.  Do they think the lies help their case?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: JEWDA on March 03, 2012, 07:59:24 PM
The strange thing is that both women would be more believable without the lies.  Do they think the lies help their case?
Writing a book and going on TV definitly wont help. The lies all come out at the end.
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 08:06:53 PM
The strange thing is that both women would be more believable without the lies.  Do they think the lies help their case?


+1
And also gather more allies and people having pity on them. It takes away from feeling bad for them (which I do) when they lie.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 03, 2012, 08:08:14 PM
I just find it very sad. This is not a single story, and not only two. Very sad that these things go on continuously in our backyard and we can do nothing to help (sometimes).
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: bubbles on March 03, 2012, 08:15:09 PM
Can she honestly claim that the entire lakewood and boro park is married off with no say in the matter...what a blatant lies.

it's a good thing no one told my parents about this  :D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 03, 2012, 08:18:44 PM
I may have missed it, but what sect did she and her boyfriend belong to?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 03, 2012, 08:22:12 PM
I may have missed it, but what sect did she and her boyfriend belong to?
Satmar (http://gottagivemhope.blogspot.com/2012/03/standing-up-for-pearl-perry-reich-and.html). Funny how the accent lives on

here (http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/6774/?id=6774&showID=1804#) her boyfriend says she just showing them there are other options, not making them eat non-kosher or 'showing them there's an outside world'. What a loser... Surprising she can't get a better boyfriend.

She now resides in Lakewood (http://mommysdirtylittlesecret.com/2012/02/21/photos-model-pearlperry-reich-speaks-out-on-abusive-orthodox-jewish-arranged-marriage/). Really?
http://www.saveperryskids.com/ - she seems to be interested in maintaining a (somewhat) orthodox life and education for her kids.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 09:57:10 PM
I just find it very sad. This is not a single story, and not only two. Very sad that these things go on continuously in our backyard and we can do nothing to help (sometimes).
The problem is these are not isolated incidents. A basic Google search will show too many to read. Wasn’t it a Hasidic newspaper from Brooklyn that erased Hilary Clinton from a White House photo? Even if these women are not telling the complete truth ignoring the underlying problem will not make it go away.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: mclovin on March 03, 2012, 10:00:09 PM
Wasn’t it a Hasidic newspaper from Brooklyn that erased Hilary Clinton from a White House photo?
what does that have to do with anything? (and what was the problem with erasing her?)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 10:06:52 PM
what does that have to do with anything? (and what was the problem with erasing her?)
The way women are treated and their place in the community. 
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 03, 2012, 10:13:35 PM
The way women are treated and their place in the community.
that's the way they treat other women, yet their wives are usually treated ok
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 10:19:07 PM
The way women are treated and their place in the community.

Going back all the way to the times of Abraham and Sarah we see it says "Behold, she is in the tent" teaching us the idea of a womans modesty. I think that a lot of the ways women are treated make the line fuzzy between modesty and them being "lower" per se. I think this is where we see problems coming from such as men not treating their wives with the utmost respect but it was NOT what is intended by Jewish law at all.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 10:23:49 PM
The way women are treated and their place in the community.
I am not hasidic. But I know many of them. And you have no right saying they don't treat women well. Why don't we go on a tour of Williamburg or Monroe And ask the women if they are happy in their marriages. You will find the happiest women who don't feel the need to flaunt their bodies to the rest of the world and are happy in their community. 
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 10:28:05 PM
On a side note there is an old joke that goes something like this:

A man is walking down the street when he passes his neighbor Mrs. So and So taking a walk.  He keeps walking and runs into Mr. So and So. He says "Hey I just saw your wife walking a few minutes ago."  Mr. So and So replies "Yeah, we're taking a walk together."

They tell this joke about Ger chassidim and it's based on many Gerrers who walk exactly like this with their wives down the street.  A fellow from Eretz Yisroel who is a Gerrer recently told me his Rebbe told him that he shouldn't do this anymore because of a lot of problems there have been in the community lately with woman not feeling treated with respect and love and seeking it from outside places.

I do believe that a lot of the ways women are treated in Judaism can make it easy for them to feel belittled and can make it easy for men to get the idea that they are in some way "greater" than their wives (which is obviously not the case. )

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 10:31:00 PM
I am not hasidic. But I know many of them. And you have no right saying they don't treat women well. Why don't we go on a tour of Williamburg or Monroe And ask the women if they are happy in their marriages. You will find the happiest women who don't feel the need to flaunt their bodies to the rest of the world and are happy in their community.

I didn't say they don't treat women well. I said " a lot of the ways women are treated".

           For example: Women having to sit in the back of the bus. Or the practice of a lot of Chassidish men travling to be with their Rebbes for differing Yomim Tovim.
Or just the fact that there can't be any women pictures in the Hamodia.

None of these things are bad per se but could lead women to feeling less than great.
Of course there are happy women in happy marriages out there.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 10:39:29 PM
I didn't say they don't treat women well. I said " a lot of the ways women are treated".

           For example: Women having to sit in the back of the bus. Or the practice of a lot of Chassidish men travling to be with their Rebbes for differing Yomim Tovim.
Or just the fact that there can't be any women pictures in the Hamodia.

None of these things are bad per se but could lead women to feeling less than great.
On the contrary. I will go point by point.

              Women in back of bus: Most women enjoy it. They can talk freely with other women without having men in between them

              Practice of going to Rebbe: It has been happening for hundreds of years and hasidic women expect it from their husbands to go.

               And women being in newspapers: That was a decision made by great torah leaders Such as R Shach the Steipler the Chazon Ish And the Bais Yisroel and i am not someone to argue with such leaders
             
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 10:42:47 PM
Women in back of bus: Most women enjoy it. They can talk freely with other women without having men in between them
WOW!
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 10:44:10 PM
On the contrary. I will go point by point.

              Women in back of bus: Most women enjoy it. They can talk freely with other women without having men in between them

              Practice of going to Rebbe: It has been happening for hundreds of years and hasidic women expect it from their husbands to go.

               And women being in newspapers: That was a decision made by great torah leaders Such as R Shach the Steipler the Chazon Ish And the Bais Yisroel and i am not someone to argue with such leaders
             

Again, no one is arguing with any of these practices. Or saying they are bad or wrong.
 I am saying these are examples of things that one could see how a woman might end up feeling 'degraded' in Jewish culture.

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 10:48:33 PM
WOW!


When my wife and I are in Israel she has no problem sitting in the back of the bus when she's traveling herself on the Mehadrin buses (separate seating.) When we're together we like to SIT together.

         She DOES have problems when Men ask her to sit in the last row of the bus while she's pregnant because they don't want to sit near another guy and want an empty seat.  Yes, that has happened to her.  But that is a different story.
The point is she really doesn't mind it much. It would be easier if women were in the front since they are the ones usually holding babies and kids and have to trek towards the back of the bus through the row of men trying not to bump into them while the bus is flying down the road.

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 10:50:04 PM
WOW!
Yes sir they think different then you. They don't enjoy mingling with men.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 10:57:09 PM
Yes sir they think different then you. They don't enjoy mingling with men.
Here is a solution. How about we let them sit in the front.
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:02:25 PM
Yes sir they think different then you. They don't enjoy mingling with men.

And if they have the opportunity, you think they would run from it? Some would. But I think some wouldn't.
The fact that are so sheltered IMO makes it so much worse when they "escape" if everyone would be a little more open minded from The beginning I dont think just bec you went off the derech you would get a shot of being on the view or dr. Phil.
There are plenty of other people with a really messed up family situation that can use Dr. Phil's help a lot more.

The one part that really got me. Was when she said she has plenty of Rabbis on her side. But they are afraid to say anything bec they would be accused of having an affair.
That sounds like total BS. If I truly knew the whole story and I was on her side then I would have no busha saying so.
But then again remember this is just one side of the story. And only 40 minutes worth at that.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:02:38 PM
Here is a solution. How about we let them sit in the front.
You know that's a problem by them because men are not supposed to look at women for a extensive period of time. Your problem is that you think they sit in the back because they treaty women like 2nd class citizens which is a total farce.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:04:53 PM
And if they have the opportunity, you think they would run from it? Some would. But I think some wouldn't.
The fact that are so sheltered IMO makes it so much worse when they "escape" if everyone would be a little more open minded from The beginning I dont think just bec you went off the derech you would get a shot of being on the view of dr. Phil.
There are plenty of other people with a really messed up family situation that can use Dr. Phil's help a lot more.

The one part that really got me. Was when she said she has plenty of Rabbis on her side. But they are afraid to say anything bec they would be accused of having an affair.
That sounds like total BS. If I truly knew the whole story and I was on her side then I would have no busha saying so.
But then again remember this is just one side of the story. And only 40 minutes worth at that.
I agree with you about them being a little more open minded and that goes for both men and women. But I do not think that hasidim treat women like second class citizens
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:05:05 PM
You know that's a problem by them because men are not supposed to look at women for a extensive period of time. Your problem is that you think they sit in the back because they treaty women like 2nd class citizens which is a total farce.

Can you not control yourself?
Really. REALLY? Looking at the top of the back of their wigs are really a big prob according to you!
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
You know that's a problem by them because men are not supposed to look at women for a extensive period of time. Your problem is that you think they sit in the back because they treaty women like 2nd class citizens which is a total farce.
You are right. Maybe you can explain this to the blacks.  ::)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 11:07:17 PM
. Was when she said she has plenty of Rabbis on her side. But they are afraid to say anything bec they would be accused of having an affair.
That sounds like total BS. If I truly knew the whole story and I was on her side then I would have no busha saying so.


I agree with you that it sounded like she was lying but everything aside there are many times where Rabbis agree with people but don't speak out. We live in a world of politics. So while she may be lying that thought is not so far fetched.
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:08:55 PM
I agree with you about them being a little more open minded and that goes for both men and women. But I do not think that hasidim treat women like second class citizens

I never said anything about second class citizens.
But in today's sick and crazy world it most deff is time to open ones mind.
Bec if you open it yourself you are going to end up going way to far IMO.

When I was in Israel I really enjoyed sitting in the back of the bus though. I got to relax no one bothered me.

The ones making the big deal I think would make a big deal about anything. But once they say something I feel like the ones in the front of the bus should be the "big kids" and not make a fuss and give up their seat.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Can you not control yourself?
Really. REALLY? Looking at the top of the back of their wigs are really a big prob according to you!
Again I am not one of them. But yes according to their rabbis they should not sit behind a women. And btw the torah says do not stare at a woman. It doesn't say certain body parts yes and certain no. So I guess you decide.
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:15:13 PM
Again I am not one of them. But yes according to their rabbis they should not sit behind a women. And btw the torah says do not stare at a woman. It doesn't say certain body parts yes and certain no. So I guess you decide.

Your right. It should on a person to person basis. And if they can't control themselves and Need to look up from their Tehilim to look at the back of their head then they have many other issues that need to be dealt with.

But the discussion I feel that needs to be addressed. Is how can this be done w/o embarrassing or degrading the women that may be vulnerable?
Let's look at these two cases and the many more and see what needs to be changed to protect the others that might want to "escape"? How can they be saved?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: jj1000 on March 03, 2012, 11:19:53 PM
Your right. It should on a person to person basis. And if they can't control themselves and Need to look up from their Tehilim to look at the back of their head then they have many other issues that need to be dealt with.
It is an issue if someone is naturally attracted to women? The problem is if they don't look at the women ever, then you have a real problem. Don't place a stumbling block in front of someone, like tell them not to look at women and put a women in front of them... (This is the logic I assume of women in the back.)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:20:40 PM
Your right. It should on a person to person basis. And if they can't control themselves and Need to look up from their Tehilim to look at the back of their head then they have many other issues that need to be dealt with.

But the discussion I feel that needs to be addressed. Is how can this be done w/o embarrassing or degrading the women that may be vulnerable?
Let's look at these two cases and the many more and see what needs to be changed to protect the others that might want to "escape"? How can they be saved?
I agree that there are many issues in the hasidic community that needs to be addressed. I just did not like how some other comments made it sound as if hasidim treat women as second class.
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:29:29 PM
I agree that there are many issues in the hasidic community that needs to be addressed. I just did not like how some other comments made it sound as if hasidim treat women as second class.


I would love to take a tour into the deep heart if these community's and see what really goes on.
Bec whenever im in BP or Willi. I always see women out shopping strolling around their kids in their bugaboos.

Second class citizens I highly doubt that.
But it is a very private community which did help these two women's cause as know one really knows.

I think some of the major news channels should go in one day to see what goes on. Like the sour Korean?? I think it was them. That went into the yeshiva in bnei brak ponivitz. Sorry on my phone can't find the link.  ( or is that a bad idea?)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 11:31:25 PM
I agree that there are many issues in the hasidic community that needs to be addressed. I just did not like how some other comments made it sound as if hasidim treat women as second class.
When you hear things that women should sit at the back of the bus, should not wear pants or move to the side when walking past a man what conclusion do expect one to come too? 
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:34:16 PM
It is an issue if someone is naturally attracted to women? The problem is if they don't look at the women ever, then you have a real problem. Don't place a stumbling block in front of someone, like tell them not to look at women and put a women in front of them... (This is the logic I assume of women in the back.)


I think it would be a bigger stumbling block to have the women walk right by you. In between all the men. In stead of sitting down right away.
Unless they still allow them to punch their own ticket and come on through the back of the bus?
Then I would stand corrected. But AFAR they stopped that.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:35:48 PM
When you hear things that women should sit at the back of the bus, should not wear pants or move to the side when walking past a man what conclusion do expect one to come too?
Cant say about moving to the side when a man walks by. But on the others they are following their tradition and rabbis. And the men and women are proud to do so.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: joeb1 on March 03, 2012, 11:37:24 PM
When you hear things that women should sit at the back of the bus, should not wear pants or move to the side when walking past a man what conclusion do expect one to come too?

with all do respect you are only hearing a partial idea about a few random subjects and putting it all together to make an assumption.
those are three seperate things and putting them together to make an assumption is incorrect.
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:37:34 PM
When you hear things that women should sit at the back of the bus, should not wear pants or move to the side when walking past a man what conclusion do expect one to come too?

Pants are another issue.
The Torah says dont dress like a man. A lot of our traditions are from times that we cannot understand. A lot of our outfits come from hundreds of years ago.
Years ago a women only wore dresses and there was no such thing as a women wearing pants.
It also has to do with modesty as pants deff show more of a figure then most skirts and dresses. ( that cover the knees ;) of course)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 11:37:59 PM
Unless they still allow them to punch their own ticket and come on through the back of the bus?
Was it really done this way?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:38:08 PM

I would love to take a tour into the deep heart if these community's and see what really goes on.
Bec whenever im in BP or Willi. I always see women out shopping strolling around their kids in their bugaboos.

Second class citizens I highly doubt that.
But it is a very private community which did help these two women's cause as know one really knows.

I think some of the major news channels should go in one day to see what goes on. Like the sour Korean?? I think it was them. That went into the yeshiva in bnei brak ponivitz. Sorry on my phone can't find the link.  ( or is that a bad idea?)
I saw the South Korean video and it has been done before in brooklyn. And they found most people were happy and there were things that people said can be changed. But that's how it is like in every religious sect in the world.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: joeb1 on March 03, 2012, 11:38:36 PM
Cant say about moving to the side when a man walks by. But on the others they are following their tradition and rabbis. And the men and women are proud to do so.

+1
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sky121 on March 03, 2012, 11:38:54 PM
Cant say about moving to the side when a man walks by. But on the others they are following their tradition and rabbis. And the men and women are proud to do so.

Some people are proud. Some don't mind either way and just accept it.  Some people hate it.
And I think most people fall in the middle category IMHO.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:38:58 PM
Was it really done this way?
Yes
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 03, 2012, 11:39:34 PM
Some people are proud. Some don't mind either way and just accept it.  Some people hate it.
True like in every religion or sect
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 03, 2012, 11:40:06 PM
Was it really done this way?

Yes especially the ones with a baby carriage. They would get on the bus in the back and either punch their own ticket or pass it to the driver.
This was just on the intercity ones if I recall
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 03, 2012, 11:54:22 PM
with all do respect you are only hearing a partial idea about a few random subjects and putting it all together to make an assumption.
Not when you do a Google search.

those are three seperate things and putting them together to make an assumption is incorrect.
Many things can seem to be explained away individually. You need to look at them all together to see the larger picture.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: zalman123 on March 04, 2012, 12:12:26 AM
I may have missed it, but what sect did she and her boyfriend belong to?
Not sure about the exact sect. But her "boyfriend" at least has some talent. He composed A Poshiter Yid among other songs by Lipa.

He was a Tina Beigel living in Airmont when he wrote it.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 04, 2012, 01:34:40 AM

I think it would be a bigger stumbling block to have the women walk right by you. In between all the men. In stead of sitting down right away.
Unless they still allow them to punch their own ticket and come on through the back of the bus?
Then I would stand corrected. But AFAR they stopped that.
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 04, 2012, 01:40:01 AM
HelpMe, feel free to come join me for a weekend and let me know if you think the women in my hasidic sect are treated like 2nd class citizens...
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: JEWDA on March 04, 2012, 01:49:11 AM
Not sure about the exact sect. But her "boyfriend" at least has some talent. He composed A Poshiter Yid among other songs by Lipa.

He was a Tina Beigel living in Airmont when he wrote it.
whats his name?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 04, 2012, 01:51:00 AM
HelpMe, feel free to come join me for a weekend and let me know if you think the women in my hasidic sect are treated like 2nd class citizens...
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 04, 2012, 01:51:41 AM
whats his name?
Shauli Grossman
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: jj1000 on March 04, 2012, 01:53:29 AM

I think it would be a bigger stumbling block to have the women walk right by you. In between all the men. In stead of sitting down right away.
Unless they still allow them to punch their own ticket and come on through the back of the bus?
Then I would stand corrected. But AFAR they stopped that.
I wouldn't know, since I was never on a separate bus... Why did they stop that?

HelpMe, feel free to come join me for a weekend and let me know if you think the women in my hasidic sect are treated like 2nd class citizens...
Your sect is very different than the others...
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Wolf on March 04, 2012, 02:05:45 AM
whats his name?
Shauli Grossman, he was a sanz klausenburg man who abandoned his wife and son and left the community.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Yordai Dooma on March 04, 2012, 02:49:34 AM
Shauli Grossman @ 3:35


He wrote some other "songs" as well:
http://www.vosizneias.com/24515/2008/12/19/brooklyn-ny-the-man-and-controversy-behind-the-yiddish-hit-satire-song-eech-vil-zine-a-rebbe-poking-fun-of-todays-hasidic-rebbes/
Title: Re: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Jkhein on March 04, 2012, 03:06:16 AM
Shauli Grossman, he was a sanz klausenburg man who abandoned his wife and son and left the community.
Taking after his father that abandoned his religion and his mother with a whole family incl. A sick child, not before making sure that each and every one goes off the d too. They are from Monsey. Very very sad.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: AJK on March 04, 2012, 03:15:02 AM
 :-[

...and there we have it - a thread involving devolving into one filled with L"H (if not M"SR).
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Deal Guy on March 04, 2012, 03:19:53 AM
Shauli Grossman @ 3:35


He wrote some other "songs" as well:
http://www.vosizneias.com/24515/2008/12/19/brooklyn-ny-the-man-and-controversy-behind-the-yiddish-hit-satire-song-eech-vil-zine-a-rebbe-poking-fun-of-todays-hasidic-rebbes/

So who sings the song, him or lipa?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: jj1000 on March 04, 2012, 03:20:20 AM
:-[

...and there we have it - a thread involving devolving into one filled with L"H (if not M"SR).
After just shmooze we need a mikva section...
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: AsherO on March 04, 2012, 03:29:11 AM
After just shmooze we need a mikva section...

DDF - Unceonsored!!! :D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 06:43:07 AM
HelpMe, feel free to come join me for a weekend and let me know if you think the women in my hasidic sect are treated like 2nd class citizens...
Dan, I have seen many of your posts regarding women. They show nothing but the utmost respect for women. I have no reason to believe your sect would be any different.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Bp on March 04, 2012, 08:09:03 AM
:-[

...and there we have it - a thread involving devolving into one filled with L"H (if not M"SR).
I'm not sure what L"H your talking about, when someone goes on Dr. Phil admitting sleeping with a married women,
wouldn't you classify it as a case where the chofetz Chaim sais its a mitzvah to speak L"H on reshoim?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 08:13:00 AM
I'm not sure what L"H your talking about, when someone goes on Dr. Phil admitting sleeping with a married women,
wouldn't you classify it as a case where the chofetz Chaim sais its a mitzvah to speak L"H on reshoim?
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 08:17:37 AM
here (http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/6774/?id=6774&showID=1804#) her boyfriend says she just showing them there are other options, not making them eat non-kosher or 'showing them there's an outside world'. What a loser... Surprising she can't get a better boyfriend.
wow shmuley really went off the deep end. judaism doesnt care that shes modeling as long as shes a good mother? where does he get this crap from?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 04, 2012, 08:24:59 AM
Shauli Grossman @ 3:35


He wrote some other "songs" as well:
http://www.vosizneias.com/24515/2008/12/19/brooklyn-ny-the-man-and-controversy-behind-the-yiddish-hit-satire-song-eech-vil-zine-a-rebbe-poking-fun-of-todays-hasidic-rebbes/




TO bad the show wasnt based on him.. It would have been really funny if they showed these on Dr. Pil
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: YankyDoodle on March 04, 2012, 08:31:58 AM
wow shmuley really went off the deep end. judaism doesnt care that shes modeling as long as shes a good mother? where does he get this crap from?

I'm no fan of Shmuley's but (for the most part) he is an intellectual individual with well developed ideas. I happen to agree with him here 100%. (I did not watch the whole thing, just the clips Dan posted.) while it must be dealt with delicately, if the mom agrees that the children should be raised in the religion they grew up knowing it is critical for their emotional stability and development to keep a relationship with their mother who loves them. Regarding whether she should have any custody over her children did he make the point that Judaism doesn't care about her religious standing.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 08:33:07 AM
I'm no fan of Shmuley's but (for the most part) he is an intellectual individual with well developed ideas. I happen to agree with him here 100%. (I did not watch the whole thing, just the clips Dan posted.) while it must be dealt with delicately, if the mom agrees that the children should be raised in the religion they grew up knowing it is critical for their emotional stability and development to keep a relationship with their mother who loves them. Regarding whether she should have any custody over her children did he make the point that Judaism doesn't care about her religious standing.
well developed ideas must be based on judaism

the british must be crazy to even consider him for the chief rabbinate
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: YankyDoodle on March 04, 2012, 08:44:14 AM
well developed ideas must be based on judaism

the british must be crazy even to consider him for the chief rabbinate

I agree that Shmuley's is too PR oriented and def. Isn't fit for the chief rabbi gig, but that doesn't mean he's always wrong. Take the onus on yourself where does Judaism say it's critical to take a child away from it's mother?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 08:46:29 AM
I agree that Shmuley's is too PR oriented and def. Isn't fit for the chief rabbi gig, but that doesn't mean he's always wrong. Take the onus on yourself where does Judaism say it's critical to take a child away from it's mother?
when doing so will cause the child to not be shomer torah umitzvos?

when you take a look at this pic, think of how his chassideshe father feels. then think how his Father feels
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 08:50:46 AM
well developed ideas must be based on judaism
That explains why I never come up with any well developed ideas. I was raised Roman Catholic.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 08:53:49 AM
That explains why I never come up with any well developed ideas. I was raised Roman Catholic.
you missed the point. if hes claiming well developed ideas from a jewish perspective, it must be based on judaism. i thought that was obvious. after all hes the token "rabbi" on the program

but thanks for taking things out of context
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: A3 on March 04, 2012, 08:54:40 AM
That explains why I never come up with any well developed ideas. I was raised Roman Catholic.

:) Alot of it I feel has to do with our study habits.
How we learn and delve deep into each subject that we take on.

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/South_Koreans_Learning_Talmud.html
http://muqata.blogspot.com/2011/03/talmud-study-now-mandatory-in-south.html


Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 09:01:10 AM
you missed the point. if hes claiming well developed ideas from a jewish perspective, it must be based on judaism. i thought that was obvious. after all hes the token "rabbi" on the program

but thanks for taking things out of context
Are you aware that referring to someone as a “token” is viewed by many as derogatory and racist? What to make sure I have the context right.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 09:02:33 AM
please dont nitpick. do you understand my point?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 09:10:05 AM
please dont nitpick. do you understand my point?
About "ideas" yes since you expanded on it.

Pointing out a term I find not proper to use is not nitpicking.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 04, 2012, 09:13:04 AM
fair enough.

as long as you understand that i want saying that non jews cannot have well developed ideas, were good

at a later time youll explain to me why token rabbi is offensive
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 09:20:37 AM
:) Alot of it I feel has to do with our study habits.
How we learn and delve deep into each subject that we take on.
I agree with you. A parent does not need a religion to instill this into their children just common sense.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Jkhein on March 04, 2012, 10:33:03 AM
By the way, this Shauly claims in the clip that he got married at 17! Nice lie to make the show more attractive, when in fact he got engaged at 19 years old!
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Side incomer on March 04, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
By the way, this Shauly claims in the clip that he got married at 17! Nice lie to make the show more attractive, when in fact he got engaged at 19 years old!
+1
I learned together with him in Cheider.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 04, 2012, 10:55:31 AM
+1
I learned together with him in Cheider.
I'm smelling another Deborah Feldman
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Side incomer on March 04, 2012, 11:02:03 AM
I'm smelling another Deborah Feldman
Shauly Grossman is out on the streets very long.
He has the same troubled background like all of these people. Having divorced parents, and a bunch of other troubled childhood issues.
All of his brothers made their way down the drain, although one of his younger brothers has seriously reversed, and has been a real baal teshuva.
Hopefully he'll be back soon as well.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: aussiebochur on March 04, 2012, 06:47:53 PM
Nice ad by Wissotsky, http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18915&alias=jewish-mom-is-celebrated
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 04, 2012, 06:52:13 PM
Nice ad by Wissotsky, http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18915&alias=jewish-mom-is-celebrated

indeed.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 04, 2012, 06:53:26 PM
Nice ad by Wissotsky, http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18915&alias=jewish-mom-is-celebrated
Yup, nicely executed ad!


indeed.
I originally wrote the exact same message as you but had to change it once I saw the red letters :D.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: jj1000 on March 04, 2012, 06:54:55 PM
Nice ad by Wissotsky, http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18915&alias=jewish-mom-is-celebrated
great video! But why did you quote collive?  It was here first  ;-)
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 04, 2012, 06:57:51 PM
great video! But why did you quote collive?  It was here first  ;-)
;)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Yordai Dooma on March 04, 2012, 08:37:34 PM
Is there anywhere one can watch the full Dr Phil episode?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Columbiadorm on March 04, 2012, 09:22:05 PM
My wife DVR'd it for me. I must say, Rabbi Boteach was better then I expected (it was cute how he more then once advertised his books). Perry and Shauli clearly think if they try to 'put us down' it will help them. While I don't doubt for a sec that they didn't have a miserable life, I do think this is all based on 'getting revenge'.

I did expect more for this episode, not sure what though. Too many interruptions, commercials, and Dr. Phil clearly had certain topics he wanted to cover. I also loved how the two of them talk, their English with a serious accent of a Yiddish backround.

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 04, 2012, 09:27:46 PM
My wife DVR'd it for me. I must say, Rabbi Boteach was better then I expected. 
 
Is there any way you could upload it somewhere and share the link?
I wasn't very impressed with him saying that he would be fine if his daughters became models. I have a feeling he wouldn't be too excited if his daughters pics were on magazine covers in suggestive revealing poses. (Not that Perry is on magazines - but her revealing pics are out there on the internet)
Title: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: WhyAich on March 04, 2012, 09:35:04 PM
Nice ad by Wissotsky, http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18915&alias=jewish-mom-is-celebrated
Awesome :)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Yordai Dooma on March 04, 2012, 09:45:35 PM
Is there any way you could upload it somewhere and share the link?
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: isaacs on March 04, 2012, 10:11:50 PM
were can i watch the full episode of Dr. Phill show?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Columbiadorm on March 04, 2012, 10:25:24 PM
Is there any way you could upload it somewhere and share the link?
I wasn't very impressed with him saying that he would be fine if his daughters became models. I have a feeling he wouldn't be too excited if his daughters pics were on magazine covers in suggestive revealing poses. (Not that Perry is on magazines - but her revealing pics are out there on the internet)

No idea, but If you can tell me how to do it, I will try and get to it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 04, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
No idea, but If you can tell me how to do it, I will try and get to it tomorrow.
You can always do it the old-fashioned way with a video camera :D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: zalman123 on March 04, 2012, 11:10:19 PM
I wasn't very impressed with him saying that he would be fine if his daughters became models. I have a feeling he wouldn't be too excited if his daughters pics were on magazine covers in suggestive revealing poses. (Not that Perry is on magazines - but her revealing pics are out there on the internet)
+100

I would just say it a little clearer. How low could that man stoop to get another 15 minutes of fame . Does he have any other guiding light besides the almighty Dollar. The one point in this story that is clear cut and accepted by all segments of orthodoxy and easily explainable to any audience is why a women shouldn't be modeling in underwear. And this "Rabbi" instead says that he would be fine with his daughters doing such things. At worst he could of given a liberal response and say I don't judge someone by their actions and love and respect every jew for who they are. But that wasn't enough he had to condone her actions and then offer his family on the alter of sexual commercialization.

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 11:24:53 PM
+100

I would just say it a little clearer. How low could that man stoop to get another 15 minutes of fame . Does he have any other guiding light besides the almighty Dollar. The one point in this story that is clear cut and accepted by all segments of orthodoxy and easily explainable to any audience is why a women shouldn't be modeling in underwear. And this "Rabbi" instead says that he would be fine with his daughters doing such things. At worst he could of given a liberal response and say I don't judge someone by their actions and love and respect every jew for who they are. But that wasn't enough he had to condone her actions and then offer his family on the alter of sexual commercialization.
I watched all the segments. Did I miss this part?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: zalman123 on March 04, 2012, 11:38:37 PM
I watched all the segments. Did I miss this part?
IIRC it was on a clip on the Dr.'s website mentioned in the OP. Not on the youtube clips.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Columbiadorm on March 04, 2012, 11:38:51 PM
You can always do it the old-fashioned way with a video camera :D

Ughh. Those are always the worst downloads! lol

Dan, if you want, we can Skype, and I'll just face my computer to the TV and play it off the DVR  ;D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 04, 2012, 11:39:23 PM
I watched all the segments. Did I miss this part?
http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/6774/?id=6774&showID=1804

Click on Pearl is outraged by Johnny’s comments.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 04, 2012, 11:50:22 PM
http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/6774/?id=6774&showID=1804

Click on Pearl is outraged by Johnny’s comments.
Thanks. He stated he would not have a problem with his daughters being a model (no mention of underwear) or actress. Is this disallowed in Judaism?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: elikay on March 04, 2012, 11:53:51 PM
Thanks. He stated he would not have a problem with his daughters being a model (no mention of underwear) or actress. Is this disallowed in Judaism?
I would assume he's referring to someone modeling the way she does, that is definitely disallowed.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 05, 2012, 12:03:08 AM
Thanks. He stated he would not have a problem with his daughters being a model (no mention of underwear) or actress. Is this disallowed in Judaism?
Mention was made of her modeling 'career' choice. While it is possible the Boteach wasn't aware of the extent of her activities, he is definitely aware that Halacha (Jewish Law) forbids a lady from revealing the skin above her elbows, above her knees and below her neckline for modesty reasons. Even if all those areas are covered, modeling would still not be in line with the Modesty levels that a women is supposed to have. Her body is not supposed to be sexualized and shown off to the world, rather is meant to be kept private for her husband. (which some may call constricting lack of freedom but in reality is a measure of respect toward them).
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: AsherO on March 05, 2012, 12:36:36 AM
Mention was made of her modeling 'career' choice. While it is possible the Boteach wasn't aware of the extent of her activities, he is definitely aware that Halacha (Jewish Law) forbids a lady from revealing the skin above her elbows, above her knees and below her neckline for modesty reasons. Even if all those areas are covered, modeling would still not be in line with the Modesty levels that a women is supposed to have. Her body is not supposed to be sexualized and shown off to the world, rather is meant to be kept private for her husband. (which some may call constricting lack of freedom but in reality is a measure of respect toward them).

Objectifying women is a much greater disrespect, as presented beautifully (from a completely non-religious perspective) in Wendy Shalit's book A Return to Modesty (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F7BPN4), which I'd recommend to people but it's dense and isn't completely appropriate.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 05, 2012, 12:45:36 PM
The battle of the Facebook Pages.

His (https://www.facebook.com/groups/SaveSinaisKids/) and Hers (https://www.facebook.com/groups/343288672360662/)

Notice how each page has a status asking users to report and shut down the other ones page.

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: JEWDA on March 05, 2012, 01:04:45 PM
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2702/perryh.jpg)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moto on March 05, 2012, 01:18:07 PM
Where can I watch the whole Dr Phil show?
On DR Phil Web site is just a bunch if clips
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: dd321 on March 05, 2012, 01:20:00 PM
mr boteach makes me sick. he is worse than her. it is horrible that the secular world thinks hes a legit rabbi.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 05, 2012, 01:22:31 PM
mr boteach makes me sick. he is worse than her. it is horrible that the secular world thinks hes a legit rabbi.
Guilty as charged. Doesn’t he have a large following in the Jewish community?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Cashman on March 05, 2012, 01:30:57 PM
Guilty as charged. Doesn’t he have a large following in the Jewish community?
In the orthodox Jewish community he has NO following.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: dd321 on March 05, 2012, 01:31:26 PM
i dont knw wat level of jews, but definitely not orthodox, the things he says is total lies, the torah does not let u go and flaunt your body, he twists what the torah allows to fit his opinions.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 05, 2012, 01:32:19 PM
Guilty as charged. Doesn’t he have a large following in the Jewish community?
I don't believe that he is the 'Rabbi' of any congregation. Although he did receive Semicha (Rabbinical ordination) many others on here have as well and don't hold themselves out to be self proclaimed experts on all things Jewish and an Expert on Jewish Philosophy.
He is definitely not regarded as a significant Rabbi in Orthodox circles - or even as a Rabbi (unless how many TV shows you're on and how many books you've written determine how much reverence you should command). Most Orthodox jews who don't have access to social media etc have never heard of him.

He has been listed as one of the top 50 most influential Rabbi's in America (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/06/28/the-50-most-influential-rabbis-in-america.html) - then again - I haven't heard of most of the people on that list. Many are non-orthodox, Women, etc and that list is definitely not indicitave of whom the Orthodox Jews revere and look up to as their leaders.

It's unfortunate that many non-jews think that he is a well renown Orthodox Rabbi and leader simply because he wrote books and appears on TV Shows. Any rabbi worth his beans would have no interest in appearing on a TV show.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 05, 2012, 01:44:59 PM
It's unfortunate that many non-jews think that he is a well renown Orthodox Rabbi and leader simply because he wrote books and appears on TV Shows.
Isn’t he also being considered for some important position in Europe? For the record I only have heard about him from posts made here.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: aryeh1 on March 05, 2012, 01:53:40 PM
She's just a copy cat of deborah feldman (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/marriage_holy_war_tyfZMjU8fVFyuOdIlvm6iI)
they shoyld be friends
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 05, 2012, 02:21:46 PM
he is definitely aware that Halacha (Jewish Law) forbids a lady from revealing the skin above her elbows, above her knees and below her neckline for modesty reasons.
reference? Which siman in shilchan aruch? (not in regard to krias shema)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Side incomer on March 05, 2012, 03:21:03 PM
reference? Which siman in shilchan aruch? (not in regard to krias shema)
Seems like you never learned Mishna Brurah and Beyer halacha on siman 75 (although the Shi"a referrs to krias shma, the mis"b makes very clear that on the street its never allowed).
Look also in Shi"a ans Noishai Keilim on Aven Haezer siman 15.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 05, 2012, 03:33:59 PM
You got it!! I never learned that. I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 12:52:50 AM
Looked into both of it, dono what you're taking about. Can you please give more specific seeuf etc.?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 06, 2012, 03:32:09 AM
@ side incomer: someone is asking where it says something in halocho. Why go hard on him.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 08:33:36 AM
And why no answer?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: ChAiM'l on March 06, 2012, 09:34:52 AM
And why no answer?
Umm, maybe he has a life?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 09:37:30 AM
@ side incomer: someone is asking where it says something in halocho. Why go hard on him.
If he would just bother checking it up no one is coming hard on a/o..on the bottom of pg. kif ches amud beis and pg. kif tes amud alef in biur halachah(chelek alef)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
Umm, maybe he has a life?
besides such questions aren't discussed by chasidishe  rabbunim? ;)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 10:29:55 AM
If he would just bother checking it up no one is coming hard on a/o..on the bottom of pg. kif ches amud beis and pg. kif tes amud alef in biur halachah(chelek alef)
yeah, I "bothered" checking it up. But he's discussing hair covering, not general modesty laws like knee and elbow covering etc, on which my question is based on, if you "bother" looking up earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: elikay on March 06, 2012, 11:37:29 AM
Nah, the Rabbis just made this one up to make life difficult. ::)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: dd321 on March 06, 2012, 12:56:13 PM
No one has link to full episode ?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 01:27:29 PM
yeah, I "bothered" checking it up. But he's discussing hair covering, not general modesty laws like knee and elbow covering etc, on which my question is based on, if you "bother" looking up earlier in this thread.
pg. kif ches amud alef, he does throw in "till the knees..."i guess you are looking for the words spelled out exactly with nekidis? ;D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 01:50:11 PM
Biur halacha or mishnah berurah?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: good sam on March 06, 2012, 02:33:30 PM
In the orthodox Jewish community he has NO following.
+1.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 02:41:52 PM
Biur halacha or mishnah berurah?
kif ches mishna brira
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 02:48:38 PM
Earlier you said kif ches amud B, now you say amud A. Next time be more
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: DrDanny on March 06, 2012, 03:18:24 PM
No one has link to full episode ?
+1 anybody?  did anybody dvr/record it can they put it on a file sharing sight
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 06, 2012, 03:20:10 PM
+1 anybody?  did anybody dvr/record it can they put it on a file sharing sight
You run into copyright issues.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 04:29:26 PM
pg. kif ches amud alef, he does throw in "till the knees..."i guess you are looking for the words spelled out exactly with nekidis? ;D
do you really have a good feeling in driving me nuts? Didn't I ask my question "NOT IN REGARD TO KRIAS SHEMA"? So let me repeat my question: where in shilchan aruch - or any other widely respected halachatic book such as mishnah berurah or the Tanya zatza"l - can I find set modesty rules for the jewish women, such as knee and elbow covering etc, but just for street-walking, not weather I may read krias shema in front of her. The point I wanna make is: there's no rules written about it, so you can't blame anyone who says its - halachaly - not forbidden.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 06, 2012, 05:16:05 PM
or the Tanya zatza"l
Is that like the Shualchan Aruch zatza"l?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 05:52:10 PM
Edit: Lol, its like I say baal haDansDeals shlit"a. the Tanya zatza"l is the author of the shilchan aruch harav.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 06, 2012, 05:57:36 PM
Lol, its like I say DansDeals shlit"a. the Tanya zatza"l is the author of the shilchan aruch harav.
The Tanya is a sefer.  The Ba'al Hatanya zatza"l would make a whole lot more sense.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sawlw on March 06, 2012, 06:32:27 PM
do you really have a good feeling in driving me nuts? Didn't I ask my question "NOT IN REGARD TO KRIAS SHEMA"? So let me repeat my question: where in shilchan aruch - or any other widely respected halachatic book such as mishnah berurah or the Tanya zatza"l - can I find set modesty rules for the jewish women, such as knee and elbow covering etc, but just for street-walking, not weather I may read krias shema in front of her. The point I wanna make is: there's no rules written about it, so you can't blame anyone who says its - halachaly - not forbidden.
Oz vehudar levusha by rabbi falk feldheim publishers 1998  ;) :P
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moko on March 06, 2012, 06:35:04 PM
Oz vehudar levusha by rabbi falk feldheim publishers 1998  ;) :P
:D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Chaikel on March 06, 2012, 06:47:08 PM
feldheim publishers
Zatzal
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: JEWDA on March 06, 2012, 06:48:03 PM
Zatzal
?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Chaikel on March 06, 2012, 06:48:55 PM
?
Didn't they go under?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: moish on March 06, 2012, 06:49:42 PM
no, only the israeli retail stores
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 07:17:42 PM
Earlier you said kif ches amud B, now you say amud A. Next time be more
Beir halucha is kif ches amid beis continuing onto kif tes not only in regards to shma kif ches amid alef is in mishna brira regarding krias shma whereas he is clearly stating what should be covered, u don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the connection between the two.
BTW what are you trying to get at with all this? u doubt the issur? or just a scholarly ambition to seeing things in their original text?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 06, 2012, 08:46:28 PM
Again, the biyor halacha is about "hair" covering, and the mishnah berurah is about shema. Period. Nooo... Dont worry, I'm not really in to change my lifestyle, just scholarly, and also curious if there's something to shout against a rabbi who says its not a problem at all. So far I don't see any argument against him.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 11:43:32 PM
Again, the biyor halacha is about "hair" covering, and the mishnah berurah is about shema. Period. Nooo... Dont worry, I'm not really in to change my lifestyle, just scholarly, and also curious if there's something to shout against a rabbi who says its not a problem at all. So far I don't see any argument against him.
K just looked up the texts, see the following  and this should suffice what you are looking for:
כתובות ע"ב. משנה, רש"י וש"ר
  ע"ב: גמ' וטווה בשוק וכו' רש"י תוס' בשם ר"ח, רמב"ם פר' כ"ד הל' י"ב מהל' אישות,שו"ע אה"ע סי' קט"ו סע' ד
enjoy :)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Ergel on March 06, 2012, 11:48:44 PM
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 06, 2012, 11:58:31 PM
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow
מראה זרועותיה is also mentioned there.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Ergel on March 07, 2012, 12:23:39 AM
correct but I think that is also not a clearly defined term
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sawlw on March 07, 2012, 01:52:26 AM
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow
And rashi there says on the words שוק באישה ערוה'' .......באשת איש'' assuming and not single girls
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: U-no-me! on March 08, 2012, 01:02:00 PM
And rashi there says on the words שוק באישה ערוה'' .......באשת איש'' assuming and not single girls
Me'ikar hadin you are right, but today all single girls are bechezkas niddos which is a chiyuv kares.  Therefore it is just as forbidden.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: U-no-me! on March 08, 2012, 01:12:44 PM
Seems like you never learned Mishna Brurah and Beyer halacha on siman 75 (although the Shi"a referrs to krias shma, the mis"b makes very clear that on the street its never allowed).
Look also in Shi"a ans Noishai Keilim on Aven Haezer siman 15.

The mishna Berura as is the whole siman 75 are talking in regards to the male. The M"B never says anything that resembles what you quoted above.
In regards to Even Haezer 15, there are 32 seifim and about 10 nosei keilim on the sides, which one are you reffering to? I am afraid you don't know because the whole entire siman including all of the nosei keilim that i've seen have absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with this issue, rather it's talking about who is an ervah in regards to getting married and having relations.

The Issur for a woman being dressed immodestly ( without all of the inyanin, zohar etc;) Is a D'orayso of Lifnei Ivair. Also the Rabeinu Yonah in shaarei teshuvah and The Ramban i belieive in shaar hakedusha write That a woman gets the same gehinnom when she is dressed immodestly, as a male gets when gazing at her since she has caused the sin.
There are deffinitly other issues as well, but this for starters.

Cheerful Purim
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: U-no-me! on March 08, 2012, 01:17:36 PM
I think what he is pointing out (rightly so, despite how annoying) that the only thing positively defined as ervah is the shok which is not clear what its referring to and therefore much of tzniyus is taluy on minhag
This does not mean you can do whatever you want and not follow

I am not sure who you are quoting, but in regards to what is cosidered ervah, The shulchan Aruch clealy defines it in Even Haezer siman 22 or 23 (don't remember which one right now, Sorry). M'eikar Hadin it is deffinitely not just Shok.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 08, 2012, 01:28:47 PM
The mishna Berura as is the whole siman 75 are talking in regards to the male. The M"B never says anything that resembles what you quoted above.
In regards to Even Haezer 15, there are 32 seifim and about 10 nosei keilim on the sides, which one are you reffering to? I am afraid you don't know because the whole entire siman including all of the nosei keilim that i've seen have absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with this issue, rather it's talking about who is an ervah in regards to getting married and having relations.
Quote

+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 08, 2012, 01:47:36 PM

The Issur for a woman being dressed immodestly ( without all of the inyanin, zohar etc;) Is a D'orayso of Lifnei Ivair. Also the Rabeinu Yonah in shaarei teshuvah and The Ramban i belieive in shaar hakedusha write That a woman gets the same gehinnom when she is dressed immodestly, as a male gets when gazing at her since she has caused the sin.
Quote
there's a chaza"l (I don't remember exactly where) which says: "assur l'histakel b'ishah, vaafilu b'etzba ketenah shelah". If she's required to cover herself so the man shouldn't do sin, than why are women not required to cover their fingers?  there isn't any jewish sect (so far) which requires women to cover their fingers. The reason is very understandable: women are not responsible for the men's crazy sexual desires.

Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: sawlw on March 08, 2012, 01:53:45 PM

The Issur for a woman being dressed immodestly ( without all of the inyanin, zohar etc;) Is a D'orayso of Lifnei Ivair. Also the Rabeinu Yonah in shaarei teshuvah and The Ramban i belieive in shaar hakedusha write That a woman gets the same gehinnom when she is dressed immodestly, as a male gets when gazing at her since she has caused the sin.
Quote
there's a chaza"l (I don't remember exactly where) which says: "assur l'histakel b'ishah, vaafilu b'etzba ketenah shelah". If she's required to cover herself so the man shouldn't do sin, than why are women not required to cover their fingers?  there isn't any jewish sect (so far) which requires women to cover their fingers. The reason is very understandable: women are not responsible for the men's crazy sexual desires.
Etzba ketana I believe is talking about touching ones wife when she's a nida
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 08, 2012, 01:55:30 PM
Hey, youre mistaking. I'm on the road right now, but I'll look it up later and give you the "mekor". Happy purim!
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 22, 2012, 10:47:01 AM
The full episode is now available.

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Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 22, 2012, 10:47:40 AM
Isn't the show an hour long (or ~48 minutes accounting for commercials)?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: AJK on March 22, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
Nah, some are 42, which this is just about.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 22, 2012, 10:49:01 AM
Isn't the show an hour long (or ~48 minutes accounting for commercials)?
Sometimes they have more than one topic.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 22, 2012, 10:49:38 AM
Nah, some are 42, which this is just about.
Yup, the 3rd video was added after my post.
But man 20 minutes of commercials in an hour...gotta love DVRs.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: AJK on March 22, 2012, 10:54:26 AM
Yup, the 3rd video was added after my post.
But man 20 minutes of commercials in an hour...gotta love DVRs.

What do you think pays ol' Dr. Philly's salary? :)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: mercaz1 on March 22, 2012, 11:44:39 AM
all in all a major chilul hashem on all peoples parts
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Steven on March 26, 2012, 08:42:50 AM
not sure what this ladys story is but I think she has a great point
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/152955/on-shopping-around-your-ex-frum-story/#IDComment317251126#ixzz1pInWhVgF
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 26, 2012, 10:06:13 AM
not sure what this ladys story is but I think she has a great point
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/152955/on-shopping-around-your-ex-frum-story/#IDComment317251126#ixzz1pInWhVgF
When someone gets divorced is there a special court they have to go to?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on March 26, 2012, 10:18:54 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 26, 2012, 10:22:52 AM
Yes.
Why? Can't they just file for divorce like anyone else?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: AJK on March 26, 2012, 10:24:42 AM
Why? Can't they just file for divorce like anyone else?

I feel like you know the answer, and your question only serves to ruffle feathers.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 26, 2012, 10:27:24 AM
Why? Can't they just file for divorce like anyone else?
Any time there is a need for a court case a Jew is supposed to go to a Jewish Court (or Bais Din) as opposed to going through the US court system. That way, jewish law can be upheld. Not as a way to undermine US law in any way, but rather allowing us to agree to a decision that is based on Halacha.

In the event that the Bais Din gives permission to go to a regular US court - that may be done.
Because there are many Halachos involving divorce, (giving a jewish divorce has certain requirements and specifics to 'annul' the marriage) going to a US court would not work.

The same way you need to have a Rabbi officiate at a wedding and can't simply have a clerk at City Hall marry you according to Halacha, a divorce needs do be done by Rabbi's.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 26, 2012, 10:34:10 AM
Any time there is a need for a court case a Jew is supposed to go to a Jewish Court (or Bais Din) as opposed to going through the US court system. That way, jewish law can be upheld. Not as a way to undermine US law in any way, but rather allowing us to agree to a decision that is based on Halacha.

In the event that the Bais Din gives permission to go to a regular US court - that may be done.
Because there are many Halachos involving divorce, (giving a jewish divorce has certain requirements and specifics to 'annul' the marriage) going to a US court would not work.

The same way you need to have a Rabbi officiate at a wedding and can't simply have a clerk at City Hall marry you according to Halacha, a divorce needs do be done by Rabbi's.
Thank you for the answer! Is a decision made in a Jewish court binging in a US court? I am asking in reference to custody of children.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on March 26, 2012, 10:37:21 AM
Thank you for the answer! Is a decision made in a Jewish court binging in a US court? I am asking in reference to custody of children.
Yes I believe so.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Side incomer on March 26, 2012, 10:40:58 AM
Thank you for the answer! Is a decision made in a Jewish court binging in a US court? I am asking in reference to custody of children.
Most Jewish courts have official authority from the US court, and their rule would be backed by the US court, since both sides agreed to go to their court, and accept their ruling.
I an event, where one side doesn't want to go / accept the Jewish ruling, it is aloud according to Jewish law to go direct to the regular court system.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 26, 2012, 10:45:10 AM
Most Jewish courts have official authority from the US court, and their rule would be backed by the US court, since both sides agreed to go to their court, and accept their ruling.
I an event, where one side doesn't want to go / accept the Jewish ruling, it is aloud according to Jewish law to go direct to the regular court system.
So if a mother thought she would lose custody of her children from a Jewish court she could instead file in a US court? Wouldn’t this be a violation of Jewish law?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 26, 2012, 10:49:02 AM
not sure what this ladys story is but I think she has a great point
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/152955/on-shopping-around-your-ex-frum-story/#IDComment317251126#ixzz1pInWhVgF
The point is fine, but these women didn't go to the press for nothing.
One went for the money and one went looking for help in a custody battle.

I think the media will get pretty tired of it if every person who leaves orthodoxy tried to get media attention for it.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 26, 2012, 02:06:20 PM
but these women didn't go to the press for nothing.
that was the obvious
The point is fine
+1
 just a cheap and incorrect way of profiting and incorrect venue and way of trying to win a custody battle(in the eyes of the blogger)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 26, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
just a cheap and incorrect way of profiting and incorrect venue and way of trying to win a custody battle.
I would expect any mother to do what she can (legally) to keep custody of her children. She would not be much of a mother if she did anything less.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 26, 2012, 02:17:10 PM
I would expect any mother to do what she can (legally) to keep custody of her children. She would not be much of a mother if she did anything less.
true. yet as one would not cross moral and ethical lines for the above(profiting and custody) the blogger is pointing out these lines have been crossed in its literal and religious meaning
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 26, 2012, 02:21:32 PM
I would expect any mother to do what she can (legally) to keep custody of her children. She would not be much of a mother if she did anything less.
I agree.  Hard to fault a mother for campaigning to keep her kids regardless of religious opinions on the matter.
I do fault her for stooping to lying to achieve those means.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on March 26, 2012, 02:23:09 PM
true. yet as one would not cross moral and ethical lines for the above(profiting and custody) the blogger is pointing out these lines have been crossed in its literal and religious meaning
Do you think Pearlperry’s motive is profit or the custody of her children?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on March 26, 2012, 02:26:57 PM
Do you think Pearlperry’s motive is profit or the custody of her children?
Presumably he means profit regarding DF and custody for PP.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 26, 2012, 02:27:39 PM
Presumably he means profit regarding DF and custody for PP.
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Steven on March 26, 2012, 04:48:44 PM
Presumably he means profit regarding DF and custody for PP.
I personally doubt PP motive is just custody of her kids. I am not saying she doesnt love them, but it seems to me that she wants to drag them down with her
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: smurf on March 26, 2012, 04:50:18 PM
I personally doubt PP motive is just custody of her kids. I am not saying she doesnt love them, but it seems to me that she wants to drag them down with her
She's also trying to advance her "career"
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: shach on March 26, 2012, 07:09:58 PM
I personally doubt PP motive is just custody of her kids. I am not saying she doesnt love them, but it seems to me that she wants to drag them down with her
get at her community and husband for a sweet revenge, yet unfortunately not keeping her offspring in mind(not necessarily purposely or consciously harming/dragging her kids down)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Steven on March 28, 2012, 08:18:43 PM
I dont know if this was mentioned anywhere in this thread
http://therealperryreich.com/?p=55
it gave me a little different perspective on the issue. Very sad story
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: ChAiM'l on April 09, 2012, 10:58:13 AM
And... The reality show (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126843)
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: bubbles on April 09, 2012, 11:01:38 AM
And... The reality show (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126843)

let me guess, this isn't either motivated by $$$  ::)

ETA: posted that before reading the article and what do you know
Quote
Shauli Grossman, 24, also stars in the show and said he joined to help educate Orthodox teens.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2012, 11:08:38 AM
let me guess, this isn't either motivated by $$$  ::)
Only damages PP's credibility IMHO.  If anyone thought that her whole fight was just for the kids they know better now.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on April 09, 2012, 11:11:30 AM
I found this pretty funny.

The show features an aspiring model, her toy-boy lover and one Jewish man who is furious that his ultra-orthodox parents deprived him of bacon for the first 26 years of his life.
'When I had the first bite, I felt angry,' the 26-year-old Luzer Twersky said. 'I felt how could my parents keep this from me?'


Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on April 09, 2012, 12:18:09 PM
That guy, Luzer Twersky is an old freak. I remember a few yars ago he made a splash question on judaism which should explain why he's against religious jews: how come its true (according to judaism teaching) that God is present everywhere? Is he also present in toilet? The toilet is not a holy place, so it doesn't make any sense that God who is the holiest of the holy shoul be in such a place...
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Side incomer on April 09, 2012, 01:26:38 PM
That guy, Luzer Twersky is an old freak. I remember a few yars ago he made a splash question on judaism which should explain why he's against religious jews: how come its true (according to judaism teaching) that God is present everywhere? Is he also present in toilet? The toilet is not a holy place, so it doesn't make any sense that God who is the holiest of the holy shoul be in such a place...
This question is answered already by the Rambam in מורה נבוכים, and in a lot of other reshonim (see abarbanal tehilim on halel how he explains רם על כל גוים השם), and it shows that he never knew or studied the עיקרי הדת in first place.

Also, we have to keep in mind that all these people didn't leave Judaism because they had questions on Hashem. They all had issues, (read: Shauly grossman - divorced parents. Devora feldman - No parents at all (in certain sense). Eluzer Twersky - a lot of mentally ill siblings, and not to capable parents (I know them personally). Perry Reich - damaged relationship. and the list goes on and on), and these issues made them unhappy, and therefore leave their community, and while they needed to prevent themselves they found questions on hashem RCH"L.

How is the Chasem Sofer nicely mefaresh: "ולפי שהוציא עצמו מן הכלל כפר בעיקר", it doesn't say that he first had kefira question, and then he exited the klal. Rather, he first fell out of klal yisroel for his own reasons (as mentioned above), and then he had to find kefira questions.

This is the case 100% of the times.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on April 09, 2012, 01:39:16 PM
As Reb Chaim used to say when a apikores went to him and said: rabbi, I have questions! And reb Chaim answerd: you dont have questions, you have 'teritzim' so you create questions to justify your answers...
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on April 09, 2012, 01:45:17 PM
Some leave their religion because they no longer believe in religion.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: Mikeoracle on April 09, 2012, 02:02:24 PM
And those are usually content just going their own way and doing their own thing. They arent the ones who feel the need to malign their former communities in the media at every available oppurtunity.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: ChAiM'l on April 09, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
And those are usually content just going their own way and doing their own thing. They arent the ones who feel the need to malign their former communities in the media at every available oppurtunity.
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: mow on April 09, 2012, 04:56:48 PM
And... The reality show (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126843)
Nebich he wasn't able to watch star wars till last year  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on May 17, 2012, 11:13:44 AM
Got reports that she led a protest yesterday in williamsburg. Anyone has details? Media was there covering the protest + a few arrests on both sides.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: MarkS on May 17, 2012, 11:19:40 AM
Got reports that she led a protest yesterday in williamsburg. Anyone has details? Media was there covering the protest + a few arrests on both sides.
I'm assuming you are referring to this - http://www.vosizneias.com/106457/2012/05/16/brooklyn-ny-tensions-boil-over-outside-fundraiser-for-accused-rapist-in-brooklyn-arrests-made
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: meshugener on May 17, 2012, 11:58:50 AM
A fwd email her BF sent out yesterday in advance of the gathering:
Please help us spread this painful
blood pain, do your self a favor and
start the week with FWD this
message!In great pain we feel the
need to publicize a terrible situation
that occurred in our own
community with the hope that
something can be done to heal
a terrible wound and prevent future
tragedies from occurring.The
victim was a bright 12 year old in the
sixth grade. During class she would
ask many hashkafic questions, some
which the teachers were incapable of
responding to. The teacher turned to
the principal for guidance and
answers to the questions. The
principal summoned her to his office
and berated her for asking such
questions calling her an apikorus. He
demanded that she see a
counselor in order to stay in the
school.   With great personal
sacrifice, the parents invested
tremendous time and money in
therapy with [...]. Each session lasted
a minimum of three hours at a cost
of 150$ an hour. At one point
they were required to pay 7000$ in
advanceto the principal, to
guarantee that she remain in
therapy.  Unfortunately they trusted
both the school and Mr. [...].When
they did have questions or concerns,
they were intimidated and
threatened. At one point
Mr. [...]tookher alone on a 12 hour
trip upstate – when the
mother asked
about hilchos yichud he responded in
great anger. Rather than calming
her, he threatened to stop
treatment if she wouldn’t apologize
in writing.Finally, after two years of
embarrassment and pain at school,
the victim was switched to another
school. The new school
assignedher to a therapist.
Throughout the sessions the
therapist discovered what had
occurred with Mr. [...] over the past
few years.The law in NY State
requires that a therapist report any
abuse that happens to a child
whether or not the parents agree.
Thus it was a shock when the
parents of the victim were called
down to the police station and
informed of what happened.Those
unfamiliar with how the DA’s office
works blamed the parents for
the>>>><< charges and publicity,
yet they themselves had no control
over the process. Initially the parents
did not believe the story and the
police refused to allow the girl back
home. For three weeks the girl was
placed in another home. with time
and investigation it became clear
that the painful stories were true.
Numerous other victims have come
forward to share their stories as
well.The victim’s family wanted to
keep the story quiet in order to
preserve the dignity of the [...]
family, yet the [...]s in trying to deny
the charges has made this public
and widespread.  The defendant,
who is al pi Torah a rodef, plays the
role of a nirdaf. Who ever goes out to
support this [...] will one day find out
what means a child coming home
saying that he/she was raped by a
therapist or teacher you wont know
what time in the day is you wont
know if its day or night you will run
around the world and ask for help no
one will look at your side, dont you
get it this yiddish community is
trying to deny the truth ? Where has
this world come to?? Do you want to
see your children in pain do you want
them to have crazy dreams at night
do you want them to be suicidal?  to
cover there emotional pain? Speak
up face facet this community has
been covering this stories for many
many years, we have to put an end
to this, when Weberman put a
yiddish kind in jail yes you heard
right (its something this shkutzem
won't tell you) a yiddish bucher no
one  stood up to help him, why??
Because this rapist goy [...] covered
it because he was trying to avoid the
girl to tell the bucher of what [...]
had done to her and to many more??
WHO EVER GOES OUT TO THIS
EVENT "THIS COMING WEDNESDAY"
WONT HAVE A QUIET AND RESTFUL
LIFE "HASHEM" WONT LET YOU DENY
IT ANYMORE HE WILL GIVE YOU A
LITTLE TO FEEL! Think before you
give your money to a pervert a
"cazer" which he was well respected
by the community don't let him off
this because you will suffer for what
your doing!Just letting u all know
that I sold my store, all of u can still
go there eat the food will stay the
same I spent a lotta of money and
brain n lost a lotta sleep in to this
store please just keep it going as
always! I LOVE YOU ALL!!! One day ill
be with a smile after all this people
will see what is going on! I'm going
out to fight against the people that
fight me all those who Rated me out
to the Building Department and to
Health Department n DEP/water
Department they all will suffer n ill
fight on till the end... Don't for get
this all happened because this people
are trying to cover a story of a Raped
child!! Reboina Shelolem geb shion a
bissel far zy tzi feelen!!
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 17, 2012, 12:19:10 PM
An interesting understanding of Dini Rodef. Is it abridged in the original, or you did?
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: HelpMe on May 17, 2012, 06:40:07 PM
I'm assuming you are referring to this - http://www.vosizneias.com/106457/2012/05/16/brooklyn-ny-tensions-boil-over-outside-fundraiser-for-accused-rapist-in-brooklyn-arrests-made
Nobody wins in situations like this. I have no idea if this guy is innocent or guilty but everyone really needs to open their eyes.
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 17, 2012, 06:44:10 PM
Nobody wins in situations like this. I have no idea if this guy is innocent or guilty but everyone really needs to open their eyes.
+1
Title: Re: Model Mom Calls Her Religion a Cult
Post by: jack12 on August 24, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/dr-phil-rabbi-shmuley-boteach-mom-from-lkwd