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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: SuperFlyer on March 27, 2012, 08:30:54 AM

Title: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 27, 2012, 08:30:54 AM
I used google translate.


(http://photo.parismatch.com/media/photos2/actu/societe/rassemblement-merah-toulouse/4502549-1-fre-FR/rassemblement-merah-toulouse_articlephoto.jpg)

Thirty young people gathered Saturday in the district of Toulouse Izards, which grew Mohamed Merah, to honor his memory.


THE initiative is as astounding as unfortunate. Thirty young people, mostly girls, gathered Saturday in the district of Toulouse Izards, which grew Mohamed Merah, to honor the memory of the killer of seven people shot dead by police Thursday, comparing their suffering to the families of the victims. One hundred members of security forces have surrounded this event static during which a woman wearing a full veil harangued the group.

"We are what we ask today is that we stop demonizing Mohamed, that's it, he died," she said. "We share the pain and suffering of the families because it is the same pain for us here," said the girl, who declined to give his name. "I think what influenced him is what he has seen in his many travels. He could not manage all that. It was still a teenager in his head, despite his 23 years. "

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST
TRIBUTE TO KILLER

The police had detected Toulouse calls to demonstrate Saturday morning and prevented the group to join another. The demonstration was dispersed in the late afternoon without incident. This is not the first tribute to the author of the murders of three soldiers and four of the Jewish faith, including three children. Just hours after the death of Mohammed Merah, several Facebook pages have been created in his honor. Graffiti "Viva Merah", "Vengeance" or "<language redacted by mod> the kippa" were also identified and cleaned.

In addition, a teacher of a college of Rouen was suspended Friday after asking his students to observe a minute's silence in memory of Mohamed Merah. The initiative, backed by the students to the headmaster and the education office in Rouen (Normandy), was immediately condemned by the Education Minister Luc Chatel. The Rector of the Academy of Rouen, Florence Robine, assured that the comments had been "extremely shocking" and that the teacher "does not perceive the seriousness."


(http://photo.parismatch.com/media/photos2/photos-embed/rassemblement-merah-toulouse/4502624-1-fre-FR/rassemblement-merah-toulouse_reference.jpg)


Comments:

Ashamed
I am ashamed to see our brothers and sisters come together in honor of a killer, a child killer. Watch! they are 8 to 25 years in any more! What is happening with our youth ... These young people ... are a disgrace to the Muslim people, Merah was a fool, but these young, lost, projetent on our people an image of the most degrading, its scaring me.


its Muslim myself I find shocking is serious is the fact that are



Source: http://www.parismatch.com/Actu-Match/Societe/Actu/Un-rassemblement-en-l-honneur-de-Mohamed-Merah-385046/

Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 27, 2012, 08:31:44 AM
What a rotten "religion".

In every war in the world, they are at least one of the fighting parties...
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 27, 2012, 09:28:09 AM
What a rotten "religion".
Now now, it's not fair to taint an entire religion based on a handful of wackos. We wouldn't want the same unfairness to us, if people were to put us in the same group as the retarded nuts that throw bleach at woman in geula. There are normal Muslims out there, I work with some.

On another note google translate did make some funny translations for example: "said the girl, who declined to give his name".
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 09:36:33 AM
Now now, it's not fair to taint an entire religion based on a handful of wackos.

+2
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: elikay on March 27, 2012, 09:39:17 AM
If only the wackos were just a handful...
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 27, 2012, 09:43:54 AM
If only the wackos were just a handful...
Still not the whole religion, and considering there are 1.6 billion Muslims I'd stick with my statement of a handful.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: elikay on March 27, 2012, 09:44:49 AM
::)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 27, 2012, 09:50:14 AM
Still not the whole religion, and considering there are 1.6 billion Muslims I'd stick with my statement of a handful.
+1
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: shmiel on March 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Now now, it's not fair to taint an entire religion based on a handful of wackos. We wouldn't want the same unfairness to us, if people were to put us in the same group as the retarded nuts that throw bleach at woman in geula. There are normal Muslims out there, I work with some.


Not sure what world you are living in. Granted, it's not the entire religion but its a hell of a lot more than a handful, and besides the actual killers there is a very sizable percentage of Muslims who fail to condemn the jihadis and many who even sympathize with them.
Source: Take a look at the Middle East now that they got "freedom" in many countries.

PS. No need for political correctness here on DDF.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 10:12:26 AM
You people are getting caught up in semantics. "Handful" or not, the fact remains: it is not the entire, nor even the majority, of the religion.

As such, it would be inappropriate, unfair, and intellectually dishonest to blame the group for the actions of a few.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Yitz on March 27, 2012, 10:39:13 AM
If that is true then the minority makes a lot of noise and it looks like it is the majority,
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Expert Flyer on March 27, 2012, 10:43:40 AM
If that is true then the minority makes a lot of noise and it looks like it is the majority,

Since plenty of those things are done in name of Islam, then why don't the 'mainst(r)eam' muslims step and claim loudly that they have nothing to do with it, as opposed to say that we must understand their 'frustrations' (as did just now Tariq Ramadan)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 27, 2012, 10:45:45 AM
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) (Handful/Few)
Handful: - A quantity that fills the hand. A small number or amount: "one of a handful of attorneys".
Few - more than one but indefinitely small in number; "a few roses"; "a couple of roses"
 
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 11:02:38 AM
If that is true then the minority makes a lot of noise and it looks like it is the majority,

...or the media does a good job of making it seem that way. Ever turn on the nightly news?

Since plenty of those things are done in name of Islam, then why don't the 'mainst(r)eam' muslims step and claim loudly that they have nothing to do with it, as opposed to say that we must understand their 'frustrations' (as did just now Tariq Ramadan)

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that "mainstream" Muslims do not condemn the actions of their more extremist brethren?  Hmm...
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: daganster on March 27, 2012, 11:08:06 AM
You people are getting caught up in semantics. "Handful" or not, the fact remains: it is not the entire, nor even the majority, of the religion.

As such, it would be inappropriate, unfair, and intellectually dishonest to blame the group for the actions of a few.
When tens of thousands of Muslims march in the Gaza strip chanting "death to the Jews" would you call them a handful? Now, how about Ahmadinejad backed by more than a "handful" of Iranians vows to annihilate the Zionists. The fact is that many of them, if not all, believe that infidels should die and they kill infidels all over the world in the name of Islam. You don't find any other religion killing so many people in the name of religion.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 11:15:18 AM
When tens of thousands of Muslims march in the Gaza strip chanting "death to the Jews" would you call them a handful?

Do you know what semantics means?

(Just for the sake of this post, however, tens of thousands as compared to billions--like Mocha pointed out--is precisely that: a handful.)

Quote
The fact is that many of them, if not all, believe that infidels should die and they kill infidels all over the world in the name of Islam. You don't find any other religion killing so many people in the name of religion.

Either you're ignorant or misinformed.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: daganster on March 27, 2012, 11:19:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken there are way fewer than "billions" of Muslims in the Gaza strip.
Saying that someones ignorant is not an argument:)
 
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 11:21:20 AM
If I'm not mistaken there are way fewer than "billions" of Muslims in the Gaza strip.
Saying that someones ignorant is not an argument:)

So?

You're right, but it can be the first step. Besides, I'm not suggesting the possibility that you're ignorant in a pejorative manner.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: daganster on March 27, 2012, 11:23:34 AM
I was giving an example from the Gaza strip. They have these rally's all over the world!!!!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: daganster on March 27, 2012, 11:24:13 AM
Stop calling people ignorant your making yourself look stupid:)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: daganster on March 27, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
You need to read comprehend and than respond, get it?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 11:29:42 AM
I was giving an example from the Gaza strip. They have these rally's all over the world!!!!


Even so, they don't comprise the majority of Muslims. Saying the majority of Muslims are extremists is simply untrue.

Stop calling people ignorant your making yourself look stupid:)


Not quite sure this comment makes sense, but, again, I was not suggesting you may be ignorant as an ad hominem attack. Simply stating a possible fact.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: bubbles on March 27, 2012, 11:30:24 AM
You need to read comprehend and than respond, get it?

stop a second. take a deep breathe. now relax
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 27, 2012, 11:45:35 AM
Deep in your heart: how many jewish fellows here don't have a good feeling or sympathy with what Baruch Goldstein did? Thats life: we all have a (in our mind) a positive view on someone who did a courageous act on our behalf. (doesn't matter if you believe its the right way to it).
Title: Re: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Ergel on March 27, 2012, 11:53:04 AM
Deep in your heart: how many jewish fellows here don't have a good feeling or sympathy with what Baruch Goldstein did? Thats life: we all have a (in our mind) a positive view on someone who did a courageous act on our behalf. (doesn't matter if you believe its the right way to it).
When was the last time there was a Jewish rallyto celebrate a killer?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: elikay on March 27, 2012, 11:58:55 AM
Judaism doesn't condone acts of murder against those of another religion, Islam does.
Title: Re: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Ergel on March 27, 2012, 11:59:48 AM
Judaism doesn't condone acts of murder against those of another religion, Islam celebrates them.
FTFY
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 12:01:02 PM
Judaism doesn't condone acts of murder against those of another religion, Islam does.

Amalek.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 27, 2012, 12:02:44 PM
Judaism doesn't condone acts of murder against those of another religion, Islam does.
Baseless statement. Politically motivated statement or not it was still condoned.
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=262783
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 27, 2012, 12:05:17 PM
Baseless statement. Politically motivated statement or not it was still condoned.
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=262783
Sure, that's the public statement.
Now look in their textbooks.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 27, 2012, 12:27:54 PM
When tens of thousands celebrated in the streets after 911 would that be consider a handful or a few?  ::)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 27, 2012, 12:29:21 PM
Apparently if it's not a majority it's just a few  ::)
Title: Re: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Ergel on March 27, 2012, 12:32:54 PM
Apparently if it's not a majority it's just a few  ::)
Or a handful. :P
But I still think that doesn't mean we should hate all of them
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 12:33:26 PM
Hey, wait! Let me get in on this:

 ::)

Now I feel better.

You people are getting caught up in semantics. "Handful" or not, the fact remains: it is not the entire, nor even the majority, of the religion.


Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 27, 2012, 12:35:37 PM
Nobody is saying it's the entire religion or a majority, what exactly is your point?

What people are saying is that to deny that there are massive sects of Islam and a massive amount of Muslims out there that glorify killing innocents in the name allah is being naive.  It may be small percentage-wise, but it still adds up.

Doesn't mean we should hate them all, but there is a fundamental problem going on here that needs fixing by people within the muslim world.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 12:39:45 PM
Actually, my point is Mocha's point, but which I'll gladly agree with (less the seemingly incessant semantic games):

Now now, it's not fair to taint an entire religion based on a handful of wackos.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 27, 2012, 12:42:09 PM
Nobody is saying it's the entire religion or a majority, what exactly is your point?

What people are saying is that to deny that there are massive sects of Islam and a massive amount of Muslims out there that glorify killing innocents in the name allah is being naive.  It may be small percentage-wise, but it still adds up.

Doesn't mean we should hate them all, but there is a fundamental problem going on here that needs fixing by people within the muslim world.
You said before "now look in their textbooks" and now you say "nobody is saying it's the majority". ???

My point (and I believe AJK's point) was that its unfair to say that "they" practice a "rotten religion".
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 27, 2012, 12:47:05 PM
Al Jazeera received the video of the rampage along with a letter from al-qeada. On the video there are sounds of gun-shots and the crying of the victims follows. The editorial board is still discussing weather to broadcast the video. Pres. Sarkozy asked them not to air it under any circumstances due to respect for the victims. Lets see what Allah's followers will decide.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 27, 2012, 12:47:38 PM
Actually, my point is Mocha's point, but which I'll gladly agree with (less the seemingly incessant semantic games):

Again, define handful.
Handful implies a lone lunatic like Goldstein and McVeigh.
Do you honestly feel that's the case?

You said before "now look in their textbooks" and now you say "nobody is saying it's the majority". ???

My point (and I believe AJK's point) was that its unfair to say that "they" practice a "rotten religion".
I'm not claiming all muslim textbooks glorify killing innocents in the name of allah.  However they do exist and that's a fact.

It's not the religion that's rotten, it's the extremists that have highjacked the religion for their own political reasons that's rotten.  But to brush it away and deny that there aren't hundreds of thousands if not millions of brainwashed killers and those who celebrate killers, who practice islam, is again, being naive and overly PC.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: elikay on March 27, 2012, 12:51:40 PM
They'll decide based on what does the most to further their agenda. Sometimes political correctness is the answer other times gruesome brutality. Now, I do believe that arabs can be nice people and that we've lived side by side with arabs for thousands of years. But when tickled the wrong way, the pereh odom comes out with raging force. Additonally don't try to water down their religion, they may not all be murderers but their religion condones it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 12:52:12 PM
Again, define handful.

Seriously?  :o Are you being intentionally obstinate?

Quote
It's not the religion that's rotten, it's the extremists that have highjacked the religion for their own political reasons that's rotten.

This, as far as I am concerned, is the end of the story.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 27, 2012, 12:54:04 PM
Additonally don't try to water down their religion, they may not all be murderers but their religion condones it.

You must have overlooked my last comment to you.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 27, 2012, 05:01:18 PM
I think the question we and most of us in the West are trying to figure out is:

Is it a peaceful religion with violent extremists, or a violent religion with majority who aren't really adhering to its tenets?

If its the latter, calling it a rotten religion is completely justified.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SPLP on March 28, 2012, 11:46:13 AM
ur handful!! 18650 since 9/11 compare it to any other group of people

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 28, 2012, 12:03:33 PM
ur handful!! 18650 since 9/11 compare it to any other group of people

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm
18,650? That's nothing! The Zionists have built over 100 illegal settlements!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 28, 2012, 12:16:04 PM
Plus they are robbers! They stole our hard earned money! All the generations the jews were in the top of finance to control our life! Greedy ppl! They control Wall St and Washington! Kill a jew!!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 28, 2012, 12:27:10 PM
allahu akbar!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SPLP on March 28, 2012, 12:35:07 PM
18,650? That's nothing! The Zionists have built over 100 illegal settlements!

u are going to compare building with more that 18k killings -- i think ur sense of values need some work
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 28, 2012, 12:41:39 PM
u are going to compare building with more that 18k killings -- i think ur sense of values need some work

S-a-r-c-a-s-m.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 28, 2012, 12:43:39 PM
u are going to compare building with more that 18k killings -- i think ur sense of values need some work
My sense of values is fine.  Those killings were individual acts of violence.  The Zionists are violating International Law!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 28, 2012, 12:51:19 PM
@SPLP whats going on with your mind?? Don't you understand the difference between robbing the innocent Palestinian children and sending the opponents of Allah to hell?? Are you off your mind? Give me a break!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 28, 2012, 01:16:02 PM
Here is the State Department's list of recognized terrorist organizations.  I counted 29 Muslim groups and 1 Jewish group.  Note what the Jewish group's "Goals and Targets" are.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 28, 2012, 01:40:52 PM
Seems to be not up to date as the Hizabulah only have a few hundred members, I think theyre bigger than that. Btw, where is JDL? Removed from the terror list?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 28, 2012, 01:42:21 PM
Here is the State Department's list of recognized terrorist organizations.  I counted 29 Muslim groups and 1 Jewish group.  Note what the Jewish group's "Goals and Targets" are.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html
I missed the Jewish group.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 28, 2012, 01:42:36 PM
Seems to be not up to date as the Hizabulah only have a few hundred members, I think theyre bigger than that. Btw, where is JDL? Removed from the terror list?
Jewish Defense League?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 28, 2012, 01:43:07 PM
Yup
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2012, 01:43:29 PM
I missed the Jewish group.
Ctrl-F: Jewish
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 28, 2012, 01:44:06 PM
I missed the Jewish group.
Got it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Chaikel on March 28, 2012, 01:51:04 PM
Jewish Defense League?
It's listed as Kach
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 28, 2012, 01:56:52 PM
It's listed as Kach
Is that named after the Rabbi that founded JDL?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 28, 2012, 02:28:17 PM
No, the rabbi's name was Meir Kahana HY"D. Kach is an Israel-based group, while JDL is an American.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 28, 2012, 03:12:23 PM
No, the rabbi's name was Meir Kahana HY"D. Kach is an Israel-based group, while JDL is an American.
So both groups were not founded by Kahane?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 28, 2012, 03:42:09 PM
Both were founded by him. He lived in NY, and in the '60s (IIRC) he moved to Israel.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 28, 2012, 07:03:22 PM
No need to be politically correct.

If a very big part of a religion doesn't condone, or even worse, they support and cheer terrorists, they are called rotten. I know some are nice bla bla ajk bla. As so many can stand up and complain, and rally when they aren't happy with Israel, so to should they do when terrorist attacks happen to condone those act.

@ ajk: How many religions in the world are as vicious as the muslims proportion wise?  Don't find me some little sect somewhere.

@ ajk: How many conflicts in the world (read: war) do NOT involve at least 1 muslim party?

@ ajk: How many religions do you know where they have mass public executions (and the likes) where the crowd cheers and is all excited, including women and kids.

@ ajk: I have many more, and much more graphic examples to prove what garbage we are talking about.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Expert Flyer on March 28, 2012, 07:10:42 PM
No need to be politically correct.

If a very big part of a religion doesn't condone, or even worse, they support and cheer terrorists, they are called rotten. I know some are nice bla bla ajk bla. As so many can stand up and complain, and rally when they aren't happy with Israel, so to should they do when terrorist attacks happen to condone those act.

@ ajk: How many religions in the world are as vicious as the muslims proportion wise?  Don't find me some little sect somewhere.

@ ajk: How many conflicts in the world (read: war) do NOT involve at least 1 muslim party?

@ ajk: How many religions do you know where they have mass public executions (and the likes) where the crowd cheers and is all excited, including women and kids.

@ ajk: I have many more, and much more graphic examples to prove what garbage we are talking about.

+1!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: daganster on March 28, 2012, 07:37:48 PM
No need to be politically correct.

If a very big part of a religion doesn't condone, or even worse, they support and cheer terrorists, they are called rotten. I know some are nice bla bla ajk bla. As so many can stand up and complain, and rally when they aren't happy with Israel, so to should they do when terrorist attacks happen to condone those act.

@ ajk: How many religions in the world are as vicious as the muslims proportion wise?  Don't find me some little sect somewhere.

@ ajk: How many conflicts in the world (read: war) do NOT involve at least 1 muslim party?

@ ajk: How many religions do you know where they have mass public executions (and the likes) where the crowd cheers and is all excited, including women and kids.

@ ajk: I have many more, and much more graphic examples to prove what garbage we are talking about.
+1
Are we done with the"handful" topic:)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 28, 2012, 07:42:49 PM
Are we done with the"handful" topic:)
We put the handful/few BS to rest!!!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2012, 09:00:55 PM
No need to be politically correct.

If a very big part of a religion doesn't condone, or even worse, they support and cheer terrorists, they are called rotten. I know some are nice bla bla ajk bla. As so many can stand up and complain, and rally when they aren't happy with Israel, so to should they do when terrorist attacks happen to condone those act.

@ ajk: How many religions in the world are as vicious as the muslims proportion wise?  Don't find me some little sect somewhere.

@ ajk: How many conflicts in the world (read: war) do NOT involve at least 1 muslim party?

@ ajk: How many religions do you know where they have mass public executions (and the likes) where the crowd cheers and is all excited, including women and kids.

@ ajk: I have many more, and much more graphic examples to prove what garbage we are talking about.
Yup, I think the strongest point is that we see that they are so quick to protest a cartoon, yet where are the protestors against something like 9/11 if it is just a handful of people besmirching their entire religion?
On the contrary they partied in the streets...
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 28, 2012, 09:12:10 PM
@ ajk: How many religions in the world are as vicious as the muslims proportion wise?  Don't find me some little sect somewhere.

Jewish people vs. Amalek. We'd proportionally be even more. We just don't know who they are... Yet.

@ ajk: How many conflicts in the world (read: war) do NOT involve at least 1 muslim party?

Enough.

@ ajk: How many religions do you know where they have mass public executions (and the likes) where the crowd cheers and is all excited, including women and kids.

Jews, too, would kill the women and children of Amalek, sparing no one. Not even three-day-old baby.

@ ajk: I have many more, and much more graphic examples to prove what garbage we are talking about.

Good for you.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 29, 2012, 03:38:14 AM
@ ajk: you are now a certified moron and/or muslim.

You win by wearing out the people till they are too tired to argue.

Your answers make no sense.

Eg: answering "enough" isn't an answer.

We have to deal with amalek because they are descendants of apes and pigs, or maybe because they wanted to obliterate us?

About the capital punishment by jews: As the talmud states: A courthouse that sentenced someone to death more than once in 70 years were called bloodthirsty.
If you would learn how the death is carried out, you would know that it is meant to take a few seconds at most. (Strangling for instance cuts the bloodflow to the brain, which kills a person very fast, and not just the oxygen which takes long)
Efforts were made when hanging the person (post execution) to hang around his middle (and not head) + to leave him/her hang for a few seconds only, as not to embarrass the deceased.

@ ajk: you are a disgrace for comparing judaism to this religion of barbarians, when the jews were the first to institute morally correct laws.

I take back the word moron. You are worse than that.

I hereby challenge you again to put up a poll to see what the general oppinion might be about who is the biggest pest right now on ddf, and who is injecting the most anti-social feelings in what people are trying to keep a friendly place.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 09:41:37 AM
I will not resort to ad hominem attacks, a sure sign someone has come up strikingly empty in the "intelligent responses" quota.

And, for the record, me disagreeing with you (or anyone else), does not compel the conclusion that I am anti-social, no matter how much you will it.

If you want to have an intellectual debate sans personal attacks, great. If not, be quiet.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 09:42:42 AM
i agree thatr regular muslims  should protest the extremists in their midsts.

in roman times they had the colisiuem where there were thousands cheering for the death of people, in the middle ages they also cheered when people were hanged or someone was condemed to death
besides the last 25 years most terrorists were white and most wars were not with muslims
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 29, 2012, 09:48:11 AM
If you want to have an intellectual debate sans personal attacks, great. If not, be quiet.
+1 we're not looking for fights or rants, just trying to have an ideological debate.

@SuperFlyer I want to hear how to you can philosophically differentiate the following..

Differentiate for me the commandment of timche Amalek (that in today's day and age is looked at as biblical genocide), which was the killing of an entire race, we were commanded to kill woman and children. If one can understand that mitzvah (which to be frank I don't, but that could just be me, and if I were asked today to kill someone today that is 1000% a decedent from Amalek I would say "sorry no-can-do"), explain to me as if I were an impartial outsider why that is different than the minds of these twisted Muslim terrorists that truly believe they are doing G-ds will, and they have been brain-washed that all non-Muslims are the "Amalek" and have to be wiped out completely.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 29, 2012, 09:49:39 AM
I was talking about wars of today, and the romans were 2000 years ago, and no, it wasn't a goo thing, like the bullfights are not really looked up to, except they did it with humans.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 29, 2012, 09:51:06 AM
+1 we're not looking for fights or rants, just trying to have an ideological debate.

@SuperFlyer I want to hear how to you can philosophically differentiate the following..

Differentiate for me the commandment of timche Amalek (that in today's day and age is looked at as biblical genocide), which was the killing of an entire race, we were commanded to kill woman and children. If one can understand that mitzvah (which to be frank I don't, but that could just be me, and if I were asked today to kill someone today that is 1000% a decedent from Amalek I would say "sorry no-can-do"), explain to me as if I were an impartial outsider why that is different then the minds of these twisted Muslim terrorists that truly believe they are doing G-ds will, and they have been brain washed that all non-muslims are the "Amalek" and have to be wiped out completely.


Lets rephrase, The year 1944, would you understand a commandment to kill the germans?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 09:51:26 AM
+1 we're not looking for fights or rants, just trying to have an ideological debate.

@SuperFlyer I want to hear how to you can philosophically differentiate the following..

Differentiate for me the commandment of timche Amalek (that in today's day and age is looked at as biblical genocide), which was the killing of an entire race, we were commanded to kill woman and children. If one can understand that mitzvah (which to be frank I don't, but that could just be me, and if I were asked today to kill someone today that is 1000% a decedent from Amalek I would say "sorry no-can-do"), explain to me as if I were an impartial outsider why that is different then the minds of these twisted Muslim terrorists that truly believe they are doing G-ds will, and they have been brain washed that all non-muslims are the "Amalek" and have to be wiped out completely.

+1

Now we're talking - A point I would've made to someone willing to engage in mature discussion.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 29, 2012, 09:52:18 AM
Lets rephrase, The year 1944, would you understand a commandment to kill the germans?
Woman and children? Hell no. Nazi soldiers? Definitely
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 09:53:10 AM
Mr. Marcez, based on your last line I believe you still live in the 19th century. Welcome to the 21st century! We have a lot of good stuff out here! Feel free to explore your new world! What do you want? Have you ever heard about the automobile? The telephone? These are very usefull products! Try it!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 29, 2012, 09:58:03 AM
Woman and children? Hell no. Nazi soldiers? Definitely

Lets rephrase again: you go with a time machine and an ak47 back to the year 1891, and adolf yimach shemoi is 2 years old. Can you kill him?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 10:02:25 AM
Mr. Marcez, based on your last line I believe you still live in the 19th century. Welcome to the 21st century! We have a lot of good stuff out here! Feel free to explore your new world! What do you want? Have you ever heard about the automobile? The telephone? These are very usefull products! Try it!
how is that an answer to what i said
25 years is a drop in the bucket if you study history.
the muslims have still not killed as many as hitler or stalin or mao- is germany or russia or china consiudered a rotten country now- maybe but not definitley
so in another 25 years muslims might not be considered rotten either
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 10:03:06 AM
Lets rephrase again: you go with a time machine and an ak47 back to the year 1891, and adolf yimach shemoi is 2 years old. Can you kill him?
would you kill him first or try and make him normal first
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 10:04:46 AM
Differentiate for me the commandment of timche Amalek (that in today's day and age is looked at as biblical genocide), which was the killing of an entire race, we were commanded to kill woman and children. If one can understand that mitzvah (which to be frank I don't, but that could just be me, and if I were asked today to kill someone today that is 1000% a decedent from Amalek I would say "sorry no-can-do"), explain to me as if I were an impartial outsider why that is different than the minds of these twisted Muslim terrorists that truly believe they are doing G-ds will, and they have been brain-washed that all non-Muslims are the "Amalek" and have to be wiped out completely.
Is this going on today?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 10:05:19 AM
would you kill him first or try and make him normal first
Make normal Hitler?
Can you believe you wrote these words?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 10:06:08 AM
if he is 2 years old why not
we are discussing hypothetically here
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 29, 2012, 10:06:56 AM
Lets rephrase again: you go with a time machine and an ak47 back to the year 1891, and adolf yimach shemoi is 2 years old. Can you kill him?
I don't know. I would like to say yes because he killed millions of my people, but I don't think I can take a dagger to a 2 year olds chest for any reason. But where is this question going?
Is this going on today?
Lol no dude, chilax.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 10:07:50 AM
Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not in the last 25 years "if you study history"
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 10:09:11 AM
But where is this question going?

It isn't going anywhere. It's a red herring from your great point above.

why that is different than the minds of these twisted Muslim terrorists that truly believe they are doing G-ds will, and they have been brain-washed that all non-Muslims are the "Amalek" and have to be wiped out completely.

Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 10:09:29 AM
i realize that but im saying that in another 25 years there might be another sect of people or nation whoi will take over from the muslims to be rotten maybe
i donbt really think so but it is possible
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 29, 2012, 10:10:45 AM
Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not in the last 25 years "if you study history"
i realize that but im saying that in another 25 years there might be another sect of people or nation whoi will take over from the muslims to be rotten maybe
i donbt really think so but it is possible
Can both of you please quote who your responding to? Thanks
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 10:11:54 AM
how is that an answer to what i said
25 years is a drop in the bucket if you study history.
the muslims have still not killed as many as hitler or stalin or mao- is germany or russia or china consiudered a rotten country now- maybe but not definitley
so in another 25 years muslims might not be considered rotten either

Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not in the last 25 years "if you study history"

Who cares? 25 years, 50 years, 100 years? The point is the same.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 10:12:53 AM
@mocha its a PITA to do this on a mobile.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 10:14:46 AM
Lol no dude, chilax.
Then why try to compare something that happened in the past and is no longer relevant to what is actually happening now?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 10:15:47 AM
Then why try to compare something that happened in the past and is no longer relevant to what is actually happening now?
+1
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 10:18:01 AM
+1

 ???

His question I can understand because he isn't Jewish (and likes to stick his hand into every cookie jar--that being a product of his personality, not his religion).

But you? Really? Do you not believe in the Torah?

Perhaps I am wrong in assuming you're Jewish?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 10:19:25 AM
His question I can understand because he isn't Jewish (and likes to stick his hand into every cookie jar--that being a product of his personality, not his religion).

But you? Really? Perhaps I am wrong in assuming you're Jewish?
Yes I am, but I did this to try to avoid the huge CHILUL HASHEM "YOU" are making here.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 10:20:33 AM
Yes I am, but I did this to try to avoid the huge CHILUL HASHEM "YOU" are making here.

 ???

Again, I don't follow. Feel free to PM to avoid this ostensible Chillul Hashem.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 10:22:02 AM
???

Again, I don't follow. Feel free to PM.
No need to PM. I think it's completely understood.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 10:24:18 AM
No need to PM. I think it's completely understood.

Then you obviously don't care that much about avoiding the Chillul Hashem.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 10:24:46 AM
No need to PM. I think it's completely understood.
I am not Jewish and I understand it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 10:25:11 AM
I am not Jewish and I understand it.

But of course you do :)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Mocha on March 29, 2012, 10:26:01 AM
Then why try to compare something that happened in the past and is no longer relevant to what is actually happening now?
Because the ideology seems to be the same, at least to me. Additionally, the genocide I was referring to is only not happening today because we can't determine with 100% accuracy that one is a direct descendant of Amalek.
Yes I am, but I did this to try to avoid the huge CHILUL HASHEM "YOU" are making here.
The story of Amalek is in the old testament as well as Wikipedia for all to see.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 29, 2012, 10:33:25 AM
I can't even believe people here are making a moral equivalence between something in the torah that would be impossible to fulfill today (or anytime over the past 2,000+ years and if someone did try to fulfill it there would be immediate outrage) to a religion that has failed to protest the killings of thousands of innocent civilians and children in recent years.

Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 10:35:04 AM
The story of Amalek is in the old testament as well as Wikipedia for all to see.
1. But you still see that HelpMe never bumped into that even though I believe he's over the 50.
2. My main point wasn't that the Chilul Hashem is the fact that hashem told us to wipe off Amelek. The Chilul hashem is that they see that there are Jews around that understand the Muslim Jihadisem, and they approve thru their point of view.
I didn't say that you actually approve it, but it could quite sound so for an outsider.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 11:04:10 AM
I can't even believe people here are making a moral equivalence between something in the torah that would be impossible to fulfill today (or anytime over the past 2,000+ years and if someone did try to fulfill it there would be immediate outrage) to a religion that has failed to protest the killings of thousands of innocent civilians and children in recent years.
This is the point I was trying to make. TY!
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 11:06:26 AM
1. But you still see that HelpMe never bumped into that even though I believe he's over the 50.
You are correct but I did Google it the first time I saw it in this thread.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 11:15:54 AM
You are correct but I did Google it the first time I saw it in this thread.
But I believe you didn't find anybody that should link it to these days, and definitely nobody that should relate this to the Jihadisem like the people here.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 11:16:59 AM
???

His question I can understand because he isn't Jewish (and likes to stick his hand into every cookie jar--that being a product of his personality, not his religion).

But you? Really? Do you not believe in the Torah?

Perhaps I am wrong in assuming you're Jewish?
I can't even believe people here are making a moral equivalence between something in the torah that would be impossible to fulfill today (or anytime over the past 2,000+ years and if someone did try to fulfill it there would be immediate outrage) to a religion that has failed to protest the killings of thousands of innocent civilians and children in recent years.


Dan is also not Jewish in your eyes?
Or maybe you have more Derech Eretz?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 11:19:50 AM
I can't even believe people here are making a moral equivalence between something in the torah that would be impossible to fulfill today (or anytime over the past 2,000+ years and if someone did try to fulfill it there would be immediate outrage) to a religion that has failed to protest the killings of thousands of innocent civilians and children in recent years.

Who cares? Why does the fact that it is currently unfulfillable have any material effect on the fact that it is commanded and will be fulfilled in the proper time?

Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 11:22:56 AM
But I believe you didn't find anybody that should link it to these days, and definitely nobody that should relate this to the Jihadisem like the people here.
That is why I asked the questions. I did not understand the correlation some were trying to make. They made it sound as if this was still happening.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 11:23:02 AM
2. My main point wasn't that the Chilul Hashem is the fact that hashem told us to wipe off Amelek. The Chilul hashem is that they see that there are Jews around that understand the Muslim Jihadisem, and they approve thru their point of view.
I didn't say that you actually approve it, but it could quite sound so for an outsider.

Are you out of your mind? Nowhere did I state that I approve, condone, or otherwise identify with what the Muslim extremists are doing to what I believe are innocents. If you were following (and it seems you haven't been), my point has remained the same from the very beginning, and despite what you imply, isn't anything close to the above.

Dan is also not Jewish in your eyes?
Or maybe you have more Derech Eretz?

Why would I have more derech eretz for Dan than I do for you? Because he's the mod?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 29, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
Who cares? Why does the fact that it is currently unfulfillable have any material effect on the fact that it is commanded and will be fulfilled in the proper time?
Actually the Rambam says we can peacefully ask them to accept the 7 Noahide laws and not have to kill them.

Regardless I find deplorable your attempt to find moral equivalence between a law in the torah regarding a single despicable nation to a religion silently condoning the terrorizing of the entire world by not protesting it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 11:34:49 AM
Regardless I find deplorable your attempt to find moral equivalence between a law in the torah regarding a single despicable nation to a religion silently condoning the terrorizing of the entire world by not protesting it.

Whether you find it deplorable is beside the point.

The distinction you suggest is one in degree, not a distinction in kind. The Torah commands us to wipe them, all of them, off the planet. Men, women, children. The whole lot. And, by the way, the whole lot = anyone who is a descendant of Amalek, which, as you should know, could mean people in a number of today's nations, countries, and religions.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Side incomer on March 29, 2012, 11:41:15 AM
Are you out of your mind? Nowhere did I state that I approve, condone, or otherwise identify with what the Muslim extremists are doing to what I believe are innocents. If you were following (and it seems you haven't been), my point has remained the same from the very beginning, and despite what you imply, isn't anything close to the above.
Take a breath...
Even, if i'm arguing with you, I'm still not out of my mind, unless you can prove that you're in your mind.
Especially that I'm not arguing with you. I just pointed out a valid point, that your posts make it sound for an outsider that you can understand the idea of Jihadism. You can see from HelpMe's posts how he took your words.

BTW, from now on you can say what you want, I'm out of this topic. I will leave my anger and heat for better stuff, so feel free to use whatever negative words you can find on me, because nothing will fire back.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 11:46:12 AM
Actually the Rambam says we can peacefully ask them to accept the 7 Noahide laws and not have to kill them.

Regardless I find deplorable your attempt to find moral equivalence between a law in the torah regarding a single despicable nation to a religion silently condoning the terrorizing of the entire world by not protesting it.
for the extremists in the muslim religion they believe they are following their religion so why would that be different
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 11:47:43 AM
Take a breath...
Even, if i'm arguing with you, I'm still not out of my mind, unless you can prove that you're in your mind.
Especially that I'm not arguing with you. I just pointed out a valid point, that your posts make it sound for an outsider that you can understand the idea of Jihadism. You can see from HelpMe's posts how he took your words.

BTW, from now on you can say what you want, I'm out of this topic. I will leave my anger and heat for better stuff, so feel free to use whatever negative words you can find on me, because nothing will fire back.

How does one prove one is in his mind? :)

For the record, I didn't use any "negative words on you." And, I'm not angry. So feel free to stick around - I, perhaps unlike other people, like to hear the viewpoints of others without resorting to ranting and raving.

But, to address your particular issue about someone misinterpreting my stance, I hope the above posts clear that up sufficiently.

for the extremists in the muslim religion they believe they are following their religion so why would that be different

Ding ding ding.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 29, 2012, 11:48:21 AM
For starters if we had extremists in our religion that claimed to be following the law of killing Amalek there would be mass protests about it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 11:52:06 AM
For starters if we had extremists in our religion that claimed to be following the law of killing Amalek there would be mass protests about it.

Straw man.

That has about as much relevance to this discussions as me saying "if our religion claims the sun revolves around the earth, then Galileo would be right!" ... which is to say, none.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Walk On the Ocean on March 29, 2012, 11:57:21 AM
for the extremists in the muslim religion they believe they are following their religion so why would that be different
Good morning, thats exactly the point. They're RELIGION is extreme. (actually, so are they, which is why they were given the title "perah adom)
JUDIASM is not. I fact, one understanding the commandment to annihilate amalek is this: amalek signifies the root  of evil, which each person has within them. So we are commanded to annihilate/destroy that evil from within ourselves. (Which is further proof that Judaism is a peaceful religion and the fact that some people are mentioning Islamism and Judaism in the same sentence is just ridiculous, and quite frankly sad)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 12:00:54 PM
Good morning, thats exactly the point. They're RELIGION is extreme.

Uhm, I think you glossed over what may be the critical point in Mercaz's response:

... the extremists in the muslim religion ... believe they are following their religion

Not everyone in that religion believe what the extremists believe, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 12:10:10 PM
For starters if we had extremists in our religion that claimed to be following the law of killing Amalek there would be mass protests about it.
were there mass protests by jews everywhere when boruch goldstien killed people
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 12:11:02 PM
were there mass protests by jews everywhere when boruch goldstien killed people

Oiy. You just walked off the cliff.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 29, 2012, 12:12:08 PM
were there mass protests by jews everywhere when boruch goldstien killed people
Again, you've compared 1 lunatic to a massive movement in the muslim world that has struck hundreds if not thousands of times, or as AJK calls, a few.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 12:14:31 PM
that is true that it was only one person but if we all rose up to kill amalek then it would be similar
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 12:15:15 PM
Again, you've compared 1 lunatic to a massive movement in the muslim world that has struck hundreds if not thousands of times, or as AJK calls, a few.

Because you can't seem to wrap your head around this, here goes again:

You people are getting caught up in semantics. "Handful" or not, the fact remains: it is not the entire, nor even the majority, of the religion.

In Spanish (in case that will work better):

Es la gente se está atrapado en la semántica. "Un puñado" o no, el hecho permanece: no es el todo, ni siquiera la mayoría, de la religión.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 12:16:34 PM
This started out with the handful/few nonsense. That was quickly debunked now we have new nonsense. The ironic part is every time I ask questions about Judaism the same few members accuse me of trashing the religion. I hope this tread is an eye opener for some of you.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 12:18:38 PM
This started out with the handful/few nonsense. That was quickly debunked now we have new nonsense. The ironic part is every time I ask questions about Judaism the same few members accuse me of trashing the religion. I hope this tread is an eye opener for some of you.

Despite what you may think, the world does not revolve around you, Mr. HelpMe, sir.

And, it would do you well to read the above post, as you, too, can't seem to understand what semantics means. Wait, that's right: you can't.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: HelpMe on March 29, 2012, 12:33:46 PM
BTW, from now on you can say what you want, I'm out of this topic. I will leave my anger and heat for better stuff, so feel free to use whatever negative words you can find on me, because nothing will fire back.
+1 Add me to the list.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 12:45:47 PM
This Amalek analogy is ridiculous.  When we start killing Amalek, men women and children, the world can decide how it wants to deal with it.  Right now, we have Muslims killing all other religions, men women and children.  The rest of the world, Jews included, think this is wrong, and so we have to deal with it appropriately. 

Comparing it to Amalek merely allows us to see where they are coming from.  But because we don't believe in the Quran, we have to defend ourselves against these religious lunatics (and yes, feel free to call me that when I take up arms against Amaleki babies).   
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: SuperFlyer on March 29, 2012, 12:49:52 PM
Again, you've compared 1 lunatic to a massive movement in the muslim world that has struck hundreds if not thousands of times, or as AJK calls, a few.

Even this 'lunatic', was a doctor who had enough treating jewish victims of terror and become nuts.

I'm not surprised.

He was condemned by almost everyone.

Don't have to say what happens to terrorists when such happens.

They get glorified, lots of money.....
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 12:57:55 PM
This Amalek analogy is ridiculous.  When we start killing Amalek, men women and children, the world can decide how it wants to deal with it.  Right now, we have [extremist] Muslims killing all other religions, men women and children.  The rest of the world, Jews included, think this is wrong, and so we have to deal with it appropriately. 

FTFY

Again, why is time relevant? And even if it somehow were, how do you think "the world" will react to a certain religion killing "innocent" children?

But because we don't believe in the Quran, we have to defend ourselves against these religious lunatics (and yes, feel free to call me that when I take up arms against Amaleki babies).   

I agree 100%.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: jj1000 on March 29, 2012, 12:59:05 PM
That has about as much relevance to this discussions as me saying "if our religion claims the sun revolves around the earth, then Galileo would be right!" ... which is to say, none.
I didn't get this, Jews do or do not believe the sun revolves around the earth?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 01:01:11 PM
I didn't get this, Jews do or do not believe the sun revolves around the earth?

I can't tell if you're being serious...
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mclovin on March 29, 2012, 01:05:22 PM
I can't tell if you're being serious...
i believe there actually is a ?ramban/rambam? that says the earth is the center of the universe. i asked one of my rabbeim about it and he said he spoke to a physicist and somehow they revolve around each other and are both the center of the universe or something like that
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Walk On the Ocean on March 29, 2012, 01:07:57 PM
FTFY

Again, why is time relevant?
It is relevant because we know Amalek will only be killed when Mashiach comes. And when that happens the world will see the truth about Hashem and the fact that he was hidden for all these years.
I understand that you think it's only a "handful" but if more could get away with it they would. THAT is why it is so scary to try justify Islam in the name of it being "just a few" because soon it will be so vast that we won't be able to contain it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 01:08:56 PM
FTFY

Again, why is time relevant? And even if it somehow were, how do you think "the world" will react to a certain religion killing "innocent" children?

I agree 100%.
As I said, time is relevant only to the extent that it affects the present.  If (extremist?) Jews begin killing innocent children, I expect the world to respond with outrage and wage a full-out war against them.  Right now, the Muslims are the perpetrators, so why aren't we responding accordingly?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Dan on March 29, 2012, 01:11:18 PM
Right now, the Muslims are the perpetrators, so why aren't we responding accordingly?
Because we need to be PC at all costs.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: jj1000 on March 29, 2012, 01:14:28 PM
I can't tell if you're being serious...
Completely OT and I am sorry for that, this can probably be a new thread maybe called hshkafa or something. Either way I believe that the sun revolves around the earth (based on the rambam). And scientifically it is an embarrassment to Einstein's theory of relativity that many think the possibility of the sun revolving around the earth is an impossibility.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 01:15:59 PM
i think taht if you ask a true brisker they will tell you that the sun does revolve around the earth like the rambam
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: jj1000 on March 29, 2012, 01:16:57 PM
i think taht if you ask a true brisker they will tell you that the sun does revolve around the earth like the rambam
Do I have brisker status now? :) (is that a good thing?)
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 01:17:30 PM
Because we need to be PC at all costs.
+1.  Oh, the costs of freedom and equality.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
i think taht if you ask a true brisker they will tell you that the sun does revolve around the earth like the rambam
I thought the sun revolves around the Rambam
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 02:07:17 PM
It is relevant because we know Amalek will only be killed when Mashiach comes. And when that happens the world will see the truth about Hashem and the fact that he was hidden for all these years.

That's actually a good point, but I'm not sure it changes the calculus... By killing Amalek after Mashiach comes, we'd be following the word of our Gd, our Bible. Given the point in history from which your analyzing it (i.e. after the arrival of Mashiach), the entire world would finally be privy to the ultimate truth.* However, at this point, we are not as fortunate. The various worldly religions believe they are the ones who have it correct, and anyone else does not. To wit: The extremist Muslims believe that by killing all "infidels" they are following their Gd's command, and their "Bible." Religious Christians believe there will be a second coming... so on and so forth.

Now, as someone who is a Jew, I believe my religion is the one and only correct one. (Obviously, otherwise, I'd just switch.) That said, it's wrong to fault an entire religion for the actions of its extremist, fundamentalist sects. 

*By the way, if everyone will be enlightened after Mashiach, that presumably includes Amalek. Are you suggesting they will throw themselves at our swords and willingly die because they know the soverignty of HaShem?

Right now, the Muslims are the perpetrators, so why aren't we responding accordingly?

Who is we?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 02:19:01 PM
Who is we?
Every non-muslim. And Muslims who claim the extremists are violating the religion.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 02:20:40 PM
Every non-muslim. And Muslims who claim the extremists are violating the religion.

 ???

Surely you don't mean that there isn't anyone protesting suicide bombings...
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 02:26:27 PM
???

Surely you don't mean that there isn't anyone protesting suicide bombings...
But somehow protesting hasn't been an effective deterrent.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 02:33:46 PM
But somehow protesting hasn't been an effective deterrent.

Right, but that doesn't mean people do not protest.

Not sure what all that stuff about PC was...

But protests are meaningless. Violent people only understand coercion and violence.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 02:36:28 PM
really we need to unleash jack bauer on the extremists
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 02:47:31 PM
Right, but that doesn't mean people do not protest.

Not sure what all that stuff about PC was...

But protests are meaningless. Violent people only understand coercion and violence.
PC = can't take security precautions when it comes to muslims (e.g. TSA, NYPD), can't recognize that "innocent" citizens (e.g. Palestinians) can't be guilty of aiding terror.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
Just an input of my personal opinion: AJK is absolutely right. After all, jews and (extreme) muslims both have a guiding by their religion to kill innocent man women and children. Period. The only difference is that jews are not yet fulfilling their obligations (for whatever reason) and muslims do. In theory it doesn't matter weather we actually do it or not, the point is what our religion wants us to do, and thats it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 02:58:42 PM
Just an input of my personal opinion: AJK is absolutely right. After all, jews and (extreme) muslims both have a guiding by their religion to kill innocent man women and children. Period. The only difference is that jews are not yet fulfilling their obligations (for whatever reason) and muslims do. In theory it doesn't matter weather we actually do it or not, the point is what our religion wants us to do, and thats it.
So we should let them?!?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 03:00:29 PM
Should let them?? Why?? Im not required to follow their religion.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 03:02:47 PM
So we should let them?!?
do you think amalek will let us
no one is saying that we should not stop them just that they believe they are right
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 03:03:06 PM
Just an input of my personal opinion: AJK is absolutely right. After all, jews and (extreme) muslims both have a guiding by their religion to kill innocent man women and children. Period. The only difference is that jews are not yet fulfilling their obligations (for whatever reason) and muslims do. In theory it doesn't matter weather we actually do it or not, the point is what our religion wants us to do, and thats it.
+1
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 03:06:37 PM
So we should let them?!?

Who said anything about letting them? Even if you put aside religion, we, along with everyone else, have a right to self-defense and -preservation.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 03:10:04 PM
So my question is, does their religion require them to kill infidels?  If it does, why do you call them extremists?  They are just Muslims.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 03:11:25 PM
So my question is, does their religion require them to kill infidels?  If it does, why do you call them extremists?  They are just Muslims.

According to the interpretation of the extremists, yep.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 03:11:40 PM
Extremists believe that their religion requires them to do it.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 03:17:32 PM
Extremists believe that their religion requires them to do it.
According to the interpretation of the extremists, yep.
How do you know this?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
How do you know this?

Ever heard of Osama Bin Laden?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 03:26:13 PM
Ever heard of Osama Bin Laden?
AJK - how do you know this is only the interpretation of the extremists?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: AJK on March 29, 2012, 03:31:28 PM
AJK - how do you know this is only the interpretation of the extremists?

Well, I'm certainly not a expert on semitic religions, but the fact that not all religious Muslims practice the fine skill of blowing themselves to bits and hijacking airplanes should be worth something.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: good sam on March 29, 2012, 03:32:07 PM
Well, I'm certainly not a expert on semitic religions, but the fact that not all religious Muslims practice the fine skill of blowing themselves to bits and hijacking airplanes should be worth something.
Not everyone can be a gadol hador
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 03:37:35 PM
You are so cute.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Walk On the Ocean on March 29, 2012, 03:41:27 PM
AJK - how do you know this is only the interpretation of the extremists?
+1
Furthermore, it states in the quran that abuse of women is allowed. What does that tell you? That this is a religion of peace? And BTW you don't have to be considered a "radical" "small handful of muslims" if you follow the quran. MOST of them do.
If they want to practice brutality, then let them do so on their own and in the privacy of their homes/communities. We (americans and jews) do not need to be killed in honor of their religion (and then be told that they should board planes without extra security etc.) THEY THEMSELVES HAVE GIVEN EVERYONE EXCUSES TO DESPISE THEM AND THEY CREATED THESE STEREOTYPES AND FEARS THAT WE ALL HAVE WHEN WE THINK "ISLAM"
AND THE SICKEST PART IS: THEY ARE PROUD OF IT.
Sure you can sit the rest of your life and nitpick the Amalek thing, but in the end of the day they are totally not comparable. Amalek PROVOKED US and harmed us for NO reason. Did we ever physically provoke/harm the islamists for NO REASON?
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: Walk On the Ocean on March 29, 2012, 03:46:33 PM
And btw, When the time comes to kill amalek we will hot be holding rallies of honor and breaking laws. How do i know that? Because it says in the torah that we must follow the laws of the government "Dinoh d'malchuso dina".  I guess thats the difference between Judaism and Islam. One is barbaric and one is not
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 04:00:08 PM
On your post #1: their grand-grandparents of 4,000 years ago provoked us, and we are required to kill today's men and women.
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: mercaz1 on March 29, 2012, 04:23:35 PM
+1
Furthermore, it states in the quran that abuse of women is allowed. What does that tell you? That this is a religion of peace? And BTW you don't have to be considered a "radical" "small handful of muslims" if you follow the quran. MOST of them do.
If they want to practice brutality, then let them do so on their own and in the privacy of their homes/communities. We (americans and jews) do not need to be killed in honor of their religion (and then be told that they should board planes without extra security etc.) THEY THEMSELVES HAVE GIVEN EVERYONE EXCUSES TO DESPISE THEM AND THEY CREATED THESE STEREOTYPES AND FEARS THAT WE ALL HAVE WHEN WE THINK "ISLAM"
AND THE SICKEST PART IS: THEY ARE PROUD OF IT.
Sure you can sit the rest of your life and nitpick the Amalek thing, but in the end of the day they are totally not comparable. Amalek PROVOKED US and harmed us for NO reason. Did we ever physically provoke/harm the islamists for NO REASON?
according to them we are provoking them by being in palestine and the usa meddling in their affairs
Title: Re: A Rally in Honor... Mohamed Merah Yimach Shemo
Post by: meshugener on March 29, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
A lot of them are not killing because Israel, its a religious mitzvah.