DansDeals.com Forums

DansDeals Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dan on November 05, 2012, 10:26:20 PM

Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 05, 2012, 10:26:20 PM
As a so-called "out of towner" I'm always asked by LA/Miami/NYC guys why I would choose to live in CLE.  Especially with a job like mine that can be done from anywhere.
It's a valid question, and there are many pros and cons.

Frankly I wonder why so many Jews stay in NYC. I understand family is often a big part of where you live and many Jews got off the boat in NYC and simply haven't desired to venture any farther out, but is it really worth it?

Pros:
-Beachwood, OH is the safest Jewish community I've ever seen.  You can sleep at night without every being awoken by sirens.
-Housing is very cheap.
-Parking is plentiful and traffic is nothing compared to most cities.  There's also cheap train service connecting the jewish community with downtown and the airport.
-In University Heights and Cleveland Heights you can get $4,250 (K-8)-$5,700 (9-12) per year vouchers to use for private schools regardless of your income level.
-Free busing for kids to the Jewish Schools.
-The streets are clean and everyone has their own garage.  There's no alternate side business and no parking meters.
-Taxes are moderate, much less than NYC and LA, though more than MIA.
-Stores have generous policies compared to the NYC area.
-People are generally quite friendly and willing to help you out/midwest attitude and slower paced.
-Kids seem to come out of schools like the Academy with their heads on straight, generally not nearly as corrupt as some that I've seen come out of  LA/Miami/NYC.
-Tons of young couples have moved to CLE in recent years due to very low cost of living, high-paying medical field jobs, and for Case Western's dental, law, business, and medical school.
-There is a rejuvenated downtown core with multiple sports teams, a plethora of museums, water activities, beaches, comedy clubs, broadway shows, a smoke-free casino, etc.  Other nearby activities include the NFL, Rock and Roll, and inventors hall of fames, an emerald necklace of hiking trails and national parks, and the world's greatest roller coaster park.
-Many major cities (Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, NYC, Toronto, etc) are within driving distance.
-Every 4 years your vote really means something.

Cons:
-Lots of snow in the winter, especially in the jewish community.  Nobody moves to CLE for the weather, though in in spring and summer it's typically very nice and less humid than the east coast.
-The kosher restaurant scene is fairly dismal (2 pizza shops, 3 meat restaurants, and a bagel shop), though it's better than many other "out-of-town" places.  It has been hard-hit over the past 5 years (2 pizza shops and 3 meat restaurants have closed)
-Houses are artificially higher in the blocks closest to shul than the rest of the city, a problem that was exacerbated by the building of 4 giant shuls all next-door to each other.  Still prices are much lower than in almost every other jewish community but it can be frustrating to see such cheap housing just outside of walking distance.

So, pros and cons of where you live? 
What makes you stay where you are instead of trying something new?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 05, 2012, 10:44:34 PM
Can you list (and explain) the schooling options for elementary and high school. Also shul options?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on November 06, 2012, 01:59:42 AM
Why is this in GD?
Mods, please move to JS...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 02:01:46 AM
Why is this in GD?
Mods, please move to JS...

trying to pick a fight? :P

@Dan - you've done a good job convincing me...can you share a little on tax rates such as property and insurance rates?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 06, 2012, 02:08:27 AM
I honestly wouldn't call 11 hours driving distance. Especially when flying is cheaper than gas.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 02:23:47 AM
Can you list (and explain) the schooling options for elementary and high school. Also shul options?
This isn't just about CLE.  I'd love to see this for other cities and communities as well!

But for CLE there's 3 main Orthodox schools, Mosdos is the most right-wing, HAC is in the center and has a more balanced hebrew/english curriculum, and mizrachi is left and more zionist and is mixed gender for much longer.  HAC and Mizrachi have high schools plus of course there's Telshe as well.

As far as shuls, there are 4 main shuls in Beachwood (the newer neighborhood) and dozens of smaller ones all around.  The main ones are Green Road (Modern/Nusach Sfard), Young Israel, Zichron Chaim (More yeshivish) and Chabad.  The Alexander Rebbe also has his own shul nearby.

trying to pick a fight? :P

@Dan - you've done a good job convincing me...can you share a little on tax rates such as property and insurance rates?
Property tax in Beachwood is 1.9%, so $3,800/year on a $200K house.  City income tax is 2%. State income tax is 1%-6%.  My home insurance is $550/year and car insurance is $390/year.  As I said, more than MIA but less than NYC/LA/Chicago, etc.

Services are top-notch, ambulances/fire/police are at your house in less than 60 seconds, no snowflake on the street goes unpunished, the sidewalks are plowed for you so you don't have to shovel, you can throw out anything no matter what size and they'll even do free on-demand trash pickups if needed. If your neighbor's dog is barking the cops will be there in a minute to tell em to bring the dog inside or be fined.
Free busing is provided to all of the private schools.

I honestly wouldn't call 11 hours driving distance. Especially when flying is cheaper than gas.
Which of those cities are 11 hours?
PIT=2
CMH=2
DTW=2.5
YYZ=4.5
ORD=5.5
BWI=6
NYC=7

Obviously as a single person it's hard to beat flying, but for large families that's usually not true.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 02:29:33 AM
CLE seems amazing...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 02:30:30 AM
CLE seems amazing...
Heh.
I've already killed LIH and now I'm going to kill CLE :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 02:32:30 AM
what's the tuition rate average?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 02:37:40 AM
what's the tuition rate average?
Full is $8K-$11K at HAC, discounts are given for multiple children and based on income of course.
I know of people making low 6 figures with 4 kids who get a nice break but of course you'll have to share your 1040 and negotiate I'm sure.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on November 06, 2012, 03:13:15 AM
-Kids seem to come out of schools like the Academy with their heads on straight, generally not nearly as corrupt as some that I've seen come out of  LA/Miami/NYC.
Not to exclude anything else in your post, but this is outrageously true.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 06, 2012, 03:27:56 AM

Which of those cities are 11 hours?
PIT=2
CMH=2
DTW=2.5
YYZ=4.5
ORD=5.5
BWI=6
NYC=7

I was probably confusing it with the 11 hour drive to the shabbton in Hocking Hills
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on November 06, 2012, 05:13:59 AM
I was probably confusing it with the 11 hour drive to the shabbton in Hocking Hills

?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 06, 2012, 07:15:16 AM
I doubt you'll get many responses in this thread. Most people have not thought about this. There are four basic reasons people live where they do.
1.this is where they always lived and never gave any thought to where I want to live (how most decisions in life are made)
2. I would never leave Brooklyn-it's smelly, overcrowded, loud and there are no gas and trees.
3. My wife would never live outside of walking distance from her mother-it might force her to grow up.
4. This is where my job is


Is there animosity between factions in Cleveland? A lot of politics?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: aussiebochur on November 06, 2012, 07:39:32 AM
Dan, reckon you would have moved to Cleveland if you weren't from there?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on November 06, 2012, 09:07:17 AM
As a Cincinnati resident of 5 years here is my list: (Copying some from dans :-)

Pros:
-Amberley village (the main frum neighborhood) is quite, crime is virtually unheard of, The police are there to serve you, and will even stop by and change the light bulbs by the elderly residents houses.
-As long as you have your Amberley Village resident sticker tickets for speeding are unheard of :-)
-Housing is very cheap.
-Parking is plentiful and traffic is nothing compared to most cities.  There's also cheap train service connecting the jewish community with downtown and the airport.
-Snow is plowed as it comes down, and streets are pre-treated
-The streets are clean and everyone has their own driveways / garages.
-Taxes are moderate, much less than NYC and LA, though more than MIA.
-Stores have generous policies compared to the NYC area.
-People are generally quite friendly and willing to help you out/midwest attitude and slower paced.
-Many major cities (Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, NYC, Cleveland) are within driving distance .
-Every 4 years your vote really means something.
-Weather is fairly nice, only a few snowfalls a year.
-Full tuition is about $9,000 but if you live in an area where the public school is failing you get vouchers ($4200 value, is considered full tuition for low earners).

Cons:

-The kosher restaurant scene is LOUSY (jcc cafe, pizza cafe, bagel shop & Indian restaurant)
Dan, relatively you got it great food wise in Cleveland :-)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: normallyavoyeur on November 06, 2012, 10:53:41 AM
Amherst (suburb of Buffalo) NY - Resident for about 4 years

I will take categories from Dan too.  We have friends who have moved from Buffalo to Cleveland and they love it!

Pros:
- To me, without question, the reason to be here is the rabbi.  Rabbi Moshe Taub has been the rabbi of the Young Israel of Buffalo for 9 years.  He has a weekly column in Ami Magazine.  He just recently published an article in the Journal of Contemporary Halacha. 
http://www.eichlers.com/journal-of-halacha-and-contemporary-society-64.html
 (http://www.eichlers.com/journal-of-halacha-and-contemporary-society-64.html)
Here is an example of one of his shiurim on halachik wills
http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=50&task=videodirectlink&id=6326 (http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=50&task=videodirectlink&id=6326)

- There are consistently jobs available in the medical, nursing and nursing home administration fields.  Other fields are not as plentiful
- Amherst (the main frum neighborhood) is quiet, crime is virtually unheard of.  Consistently ranked among the safest cities in America
  11th on this list http://www.businessinsider.com/safest-cities-in-america-2011-6?op=1 (http://www.businessinsider.com/safest-cities-in-america-2011-6?op=1)
- Parking is plentiful and traffic is nothing compared to most cities.  Highways were built for a population that was once double its size now (opposite of NY and Toronto)
- Snow is plowed as soon as it comes down.
- The streets are clean and everyone has their own driveways / garages.
- Houses are $125-250K, even right near the shuls.
- Taxes are moderate.  $150,000 home pays about $3,500
- People are generally quite friendly and willing to help you out/midwest attitude and slower paced.  After a birth your family will get a minimum of 2 weeks        of meals.  People are upset if they don't get a chance to make a meal for you.  When there is a shiva home, the entire shul davens at the shiva home.
- Many major cities (Toronto, NYC, Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland) are within driving distance .
- Tuition is low
- Beautiful Mikvah (men's and women's) - More beautiful than any mikvah I have seen in NY (outside of upper west side)
- People don't expect luxury, they expect simplicity.
- Flights to New York are often $55-$75 each way (off hours - more for prime hours) and there are usually multiple flights each hour.
- Strong minyan during the week.
- Many young frum couples have moved in within the last 5 years (over ten), some for short term, but most are permanent.
- School (Ohr Temimim School) is expanding the building because, baruch Hashem, there is no room left. 
- NY State Post Graduate Schools - Dental, Medical, Law, Nursing etc.. (and tuitions)
- Eruv - built this past year
- Wegman's - One of the nicest and best grocery stores I've ever been too.  Free toddler sitting while you shop!  Rochester residents would concur
- Early stages of planning for a community kollel

Cons:

-Not much in terms of kosher restaurants, but that has been getting better in the last couple of years.  We have a kosher bakery and deli in the supermarket which have been there for years and recently the University of Buffalo opened a meat cafe, JCC opened a dairy cafe and kosher frozen yogurt opened (Yo Betty).  Nothing fancy at all.
- Too many shuls - There are 5 orthodox shuls within 15 min drive of each other.  Each one has about 35-40 families.
- No high school (yet).   Many send their children out for high school - Cleveland, Hamilton, Baltimore, Chicago, New York etc. Given the demographics, there will likely be a high school within 5-10 years.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Centurion on November 06, 2012, 11:00:33 AM
yerushalyim only pros no cons-
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MEIR613 on November 06, 2012, 11:03:23 AM
Cle - chase pulls from TU :)

Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on November 06, 2012, 11:18:31 AM
yerushalyim only pros no cons-

Let's be realistic ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 11:31:41 AM
yerushalyim only pros no cons-
Way too many Jews. I'd go crazy.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 06, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
Way too many Jews. I'd go crazy.
That's your biggest problem??
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 11:37:37 AM
I doubt you'll get many responses in this thread. Most people have not thought about this. There are four basic reasons people live where they do.
1.this is where they always lived and never gave any thought to where I want to live (how most decisions in life are made)
2. I would never leave Brooklyn-it's smelly, overcrowded, loud and there are no gas and trees.
3. My wife would never live outside of walking distance from her mother-it might force her to grow up.
4. This is where my job is


Is there animosity between factions in Cleveland? A lot of politics?
3. lol true,
Another major thing is there are always events going on in the NYC area. As a single person I love living in NY so many people my age and things to do. Also restaurants delivering for free at 1am has come in handy many many times.

Mosdos has some animosity FWIR but nothing visible really...

That's your biggest problem??
Oh true no overnight shipping from amazon prime. Why what is yours? I've only lived there for a few days...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 06, 2012, 11:47:56 AM

 Oh true no overnight shipping from amazon prime. Why what is yours? I've only lived there for a few days...
I lived there for close to 5 years and I tell you as much as I got used to the Israeli attitude it just killed me every time I had to deal with Israelis. And I'm not talking about any major dealings, Im talking about day to day life like buying an apple from the makolet.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 12:07:01 PM
I doubt you'll get many responses in this thread. Most people have not thought about this. There are four basic reasons people live where they do.
1.this is where they always lived and never gave any thought to where I want to live (how most decisions in life are made)
2. I would never leave Brooklyn-it's smelly, overcrowded, loud and there are no gas and trees.
3. My wife would never live outside of walking distance from her mother-it might force her to grow up.
4. This is where my job is
Is there animosity between factions in Cleveland? A lot of politics?
Lol, #3 was the reason I broke up with some girls.  I did appreciate their honesty though :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 12:11:17 PM
Dan, reckon you would have moved to Cleveland if you weren't from there?
I probably would never have even visited CLE. Except maybe to get front row seats to see my sports teams play there for dirt cheap and to check out Cedar Point.

I'd have to imagine if I grew up in NYC that I'd find my way out.  The crime, lack of greenery, noise, bad climate (too humid in summer, typical east coast winters, plus hurricanes/flodding), inconveniences of traffic/parking, corrupt cops, high cost of living seem to outweigh having nice restaurants.
If I grew up in LA/MIA though then you're right I'd probably never leave.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 06, 2012, 12:34:32 PM
Animosity between groups in Cleveland?

how long is the commute to downtown?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on November 06, 2012, 12:42:27 PM
Animosity between groups in Cleveland?
Not a native, but I don't think there is anything major going on.
how long is the commute to downtown?
~30 min I think.

The point you guys in the small towns are missing, is CLE probably had at least 50x more frum families than these other towns. It's a real frum city. Also (and probably partially therefore) the education system is amazing. 3 schools, one right, one left, one center (well, more right center). Not too many "out of towns" have that
yerushalyim only pros no cons-
If you think kids chinuch in Lakewood is messed up, look at jlm. Makes Lakewooders look like Clevelanders.

Lol, #3 was the reason I broke up with some girls.  I did appreciate their honesty though :D
And the reason I insisted on moving to Israel to start marriage.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 12:42:31 PM
Animosity between groups in Cleveland?

how long is the commute to downtown?
None visible. Everyone really gets along well. If you don't say good shabbos to someone you will get a weird look. Unlike NY where its the opposite.

20 min. to downtown.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on November 06, 2012, 12:45:58 PM
If you don't say good shabbos to someone you will get a weird look.

That depends on the hood.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 12:47:49 PM
That depends on the hood.
I think we are talking about Beachwood.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 12:49:20 PM
None visible. Everyone really gets along well. If you don't say good shabbos to someone you will get a weird look. Unlike NY where its the opposite.
Lol

The point you guys in the small towns are missing, is CLE probably had at least 50x more frum families than these other towns. It's a real frum city. Also (and probably partially therefore) the education system is amazing. 3 schools, one right, one left, one center (well, more right center). Not too many "out of towns" have that
True, I'm sure CVG and BUF are great cities to live in, but I'd start missing chinese food at some point :D
I do think CLE is the best compromise between small and big city.
There are some 85K Jews in CLE, about 15K of which are frum.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 12:50:07 PM
I think we are talking about Beachwood.
Which is where most everyone moves to these days.  Cleveland Heights will be gone in 25 years.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 06, 2012, 12:54:01 PM
Lakewood: highest tax rate and a heard mentality.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 12:55:00 PM
Lakewood: highest tax rate and a heard mentality.
So why stay?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 06, 2012, 12:56:50 PM
We'r part of the herd!...what will ppl say, why did they move, .....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 06, 2012, 12:59:38 PM
We'r part of the herd!...what will ppl say, why did they move, .....
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 01:01:59 PM
Do you live your life for what other people say??
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 06, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
Do you live your life for what other people say??
+1 I never in my life heard of that.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: myb821 on November 06, 2012, 01:11:06 PM
Do you live your life for what other people say??
+100
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 06, 2012, 01:19:53 PM
But everyone lives here...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 01:22:18 PM
But everyone lives here...
I don't. I feel like you were being sarcastic anyway, playing on the fact that you sound like a little kid saying "but that's what everyone does", when he gets caught doing something wrong...

If you weren't I feel bad you give into peer-pressure like that.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 06, 2012, 01:45:10 PM
+1 I never in my life heard of that.
Welcome to the herd mentality....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lfas25 on November 06, 2012, 01:45:59 PM
Lakewood: highest tax rate and a heard mentality.

The HERD is slowly breaking away...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kangaroo on November 06, 2012, 01:47:18 PM
It seems that there are many jobs for professionals. But what about aspiring business men?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lfas25 on November 06, 2012, 01:47:40 PM
Do you live your life for what other people say??

+1 I tell that to ppl all the time! Do what you want not what other people want you to do or will think of you for doing something.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 06, 2012, 01:47:50 PM
The HERD is slowly breaking away...
Whoops! fixed that :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lfas25 on November 06, 2012, 01:49:53 PM
But everyone lives here...

Do you also believe that Jews could never do anything wrong? or a stop sign is optional?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: nis965 on November 06, 2012, 02:35:32 PM
As a native Clevelander who moved back, I feel the ONLY "con" is that it's hard to find a job if you are not some sort of professional (or are going to join one of the 4+ kollelim ;)).  While I am not discontinuing the entrepreneur spirit of my fellow C-Towners, we are just not as big as other cities. In NY you can open a business renting folding chairs for simchas and make some sort of living! That being said I would not live anywhere else! 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yeki89 on November 06, 2012, 02:57:29 PM
@Dan u forgot to mention Subway!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 03:20:02 PM
@Dan u forgot to mention Subway!
Pro or con :P
I kid, I kid.

Also didn't mention Unger's donuts or chocolate emporium :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
Pro or con :P
I kid, I kid.

Also didn't mention Unger's donuts or chocolate emporium :)
My favorite donuts in the world! chocolate emporium is opening a cholov yisroel cafe!!!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yeki89 on November 06, 2012, 03:29:39 PM
Ungers doughnuts mmmm...i remember my days in telshe, now lets not forget shimons wings, or glorias pizza  :D :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 03:34:17 PM
It's kind of hard to do something comprehensive for Israel as there are many areas and in a sense they are very much intertwined, some of them at least. I'm sure others will chime in...
 
This is general not specific to any area in particular.

Pro's:

Healthcare- 120 nis per month to Bituach Luemi - national insurance...plus optional add ons for higher insurance coverage. one common add on is 'adif' on the muechedet carrier which costs and extra 80nis or so for a couple

Transportation:
Nice bus system in jerusalem, train system is pretty good to depending on where you travel, price is relatively inexpensive as well

Food Shopping:
its nice having a local makolet around the corner to run out to when in need of something especially when they are open until/past midnight

Environment:
depends on where you live, but its nice to have the streets close down on shabbos and the sirens and music etc

Culture:

once you get the hang of it, its nice to live in a country where you can always work around a solution to a problem with some connection or back and forth.

slightly OT but the other day i had a meeting on some moshav where they had this large tract of land that looked like a farm and it had a building/office of a major construction company and a tropical fish factory next to it - totally random considering they shared the office.

he dismissed and related jokingly - but said the truth is - the land was given to the moshav way back when for farming purposes only...so yes, they maintain a small fish operation as a hobby, and get away running a construction company off the land.

Cons:

Shopping:
the malls can leave much to be desired and are overpriced and can be packed beyond belief

Travel: unless you travel to the eu, travel can be tiring and expensive unless of course you frequent ddf
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on November 06, 2012, 03:50:50 PM
...and free dental until 18
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 06, 2012, 03:53:34 PM
...and free dental until 18
Taxes?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 03:55:06 PM
...and free dental until 18

very true...plus cheap rx meds

Taxes?

 are a major killer :( as much as 50%
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2012, 03:56:40 PM
are a major killer :( as much as 50%
Lol, then this business of free/cheap health and dental insurance is nothing but taking it out your pocket to put it back in again.
I'll stick with my private insurance.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lfas25 on November 06, 2012, 04:00:34 PM
Lol, then this business of free/cheap health and dental insurance is nothing but taking it out your pocket to put it back in again.
I'll stick with my private insurance.

+1
I'm thinking of Obama care though...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 04:19:14 PM
Lol, then this business of free/cheap health and dental insurance is nothing but taking it out your pocket to put it back in again.
I'll stick with my private insurance.

*IF* you are paying 50%, yes. but vast majority dont pat that much or even pay much if anything...kollel, income levels etc; there are other new benefits that have been passed through after recent protests such as free pre-k and tax credits for those with children under certain ages...

in reality this has helped the middle class....immigrants can also benefit from tax free status on foreign income for up to 10 years IIRC and there are ways to structure taxes i imagine...

tuition is also very inexpensive....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on November 06, 2012, 04:21:35 PM
Con:  The restaurant situation...compared to brooklyn
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YudiG on November 06, 2012, 04:22:13 PM
Con:  The restaurant situation...compared to brooklyn

shwarma and falafel,,what more do you need?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on November 06, 2012, 04:35:57 PM
shwarma and falafel,,what more do you need?
Sub sational?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on November 06, 2012, 05:16:41 PM
Sub sational?

over-rated! :-)  though as jewda said the daily dealings is what can really kill it honestly
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on November 06, 2012, 05:25:03 PM
over-rated! :-) 
Now that they changed owners I could hear that..used to be good.  Even if it wasnt...theres nothing like that in jlem.

though as jewda said the daily dealings is what can really kill it honestly
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on November 06, 2012, 05:29:19 PM
Food Shopping:
its nice having a local makolet around the corner to run out to when in need of something especially when they are open until/past midnight


I definitely hear that.  But what about the fact that not one store has everything I ever need (unless you shlep to rami levi or the like and even then still annoying shopping there)..either they're sold out or just doesn't sell it...and then you have to go from one makolet to next trying to find that item(s)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 06, 2012, 05:49:00 PM
over-rated! :-)  though as jewda said the daily dealings is what can really kill it honestly
It might be a nice idea to live there, but once your kid has to go to school you don't want them to get messed up.
Like an old friend used to tell me: Do you want to hate your kids?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on November 06, 2012, 06:18:29 PM
Your very on the mark!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 06, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
Like an old friend used to tell me: Do you want to hate your kids?
Personally know someone who recently moved back for this very reason
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 06, 2012, 06:38:44 PM
Personally know someone who recently moved back for this very reason
And I personally know someone who didnt move back and I can't stand his kids.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 06, 2012, 06:41:06 PM
Well technically ANYONE who didn't move back I can't stant their kids :/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on November 06, 2012, 06:45:24 PM
Con:  The restaurant situation...compared to brooklyn

-1,000,000

You are clearly patronizing all the wrong places. We need to talk. ;)

 
I definitely hear that.  But what about the fact that not one store has everything I ever need (unless you shlep to rami levi or the like and even then still annoying shopping there)..either they're sold out or just doesn't sell it...and then you have to go from one makolet to next trying to find that item(s)

-1,000,000

See above. :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on November 06, 2012, 06:46:58 PM
It might be a nice idea to live there, but once your kid has to go to school you don't want them to get messed up.
Like an old friend used to tell me: Do you want to hate your kids?

+1

Like Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky always says, "the drawback to living in Israel is that your kids grow up Israeli". ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 06, 2012, 06:49:59 PM
This getting slanted way to anti Israel for me. I know plenty of well adjusted kids growing up there
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on November 06, 2012, 06:50:04 PM
I'm trapped in Mr. Ergel's #3...
Would've move to upstate a whir ago...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DrDanny on November 06, 2012, 08:40:27 PM
How upstate are we talking
Monsey or like Albany and rochester
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on November 06, 2012, 08:51:40 PM
Not Albany or Rochester style.
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 06, 2012, 09:17:44 PM
I'm trapped in Mr. Ergel's #3...
I've never been referred to as Mr. before. Thank you.
How do you know in not a Mrs.?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on November 06, 2012, 10:16:06 PM
Sorry, but you don't act like a Mrs.
You have the attitude of serious mature grownup respected man who doesn't express any emotions and rarely a smile appears on your face.
No offense, just my description as I read your posts. But you should definitely be proud of it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 06, 2012, 10:22:45 PM
This getting slanted way to anti Israel for me. I know plenty of well adjusted kids growing up there
basically whatever I say on the forums- you say the opposite, there's just no need to point it out every time.
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 06, 2012, 10:24:59 PM
basically whatever I say on the forums- you say the opposite, there's just no need to point it out every time.
Why not? It keeps the masses entertained
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on November 07, 2012, 01:07:54 AM
My personal take:

Living in Cleveland is like living in slow motion.

Obviously doesnt apply to Dan (or at least to his mileage accounts)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: L'Chaim on November 07, 2012, 02:59:22 AM
I recently heard a story of a gadol that told someone about moving to Israel, that where he lives his kids grow up (מתחנכים) at home, while in Israel his kids will grow up on the street. (IIRC it was the chazon ish)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on November 07, 2012, 04:39:14 AM
I recently heard a story of a gadol that told someone about moving to Israel, that where he lives his kids grow up (מתחנכים) at home, while in Israel his kids will grow up on the street. (IIRC it was the chazon ish)
sounds made up. And if it was the Chazon Ish, almost for sure made up
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: satturn on November 07, 2012, 04:57:34 AM
*IF* you are paying 50%, yes. but vast majority dont pat that much or even pay much if anything...kollel, income levels etc; there are other new benefits that have been passed through after recent protests such as free pre-k and tax credits for those with children under certain ages...

in reality this has helped the middle class....immigrants can also benefit from tax free status on foreign income for up to 10 years IIRC and there are ways to structure taxes i imagine...

tuition is also very inexpensive....

My dads insurance and taxes monthly in the US came out to be very similar to the Israeli- rate. Unless i was was making a bunch more money and then i would be paying higher premiums. (but these numbers are very hard to figure out- bec my dads income is greater than mine)
Another point to keep in mind- for low income folk- they can actually afford in surance in Israel- unlike many americans.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: satturn on November 07, 2012, 04:58:24 AM
Pros and cons of the old city- anyone want to venture? :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on November 07, 2012, 07:53:04 AM
Pros of Montreal... A prime minister who is a friend of Israel!
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on November 07, 2012, 08:06:34 AM
Pros of Montreal... A prime minister who is a friend of Israel!
+1
I like Montreal a lot.
(I'm Canadian at heart)
It just seems a bit too black and white for me sometimes.
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on November 07, 2012, 08:08:03 AM
+1
I like Montreal a lot.
(I'm Canadian at heart)
It just seems a bit too black and white for me sometimes.
like ur avatar  ::) ;D ::)
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on November 07, 2012, 08:10:03 AM
like ur avatar  ::) ;D ::)

Lol....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 07, 2012, 09:04:32 AM
Pros of Montreal... A prime minister who is a friend of Israel!
That's the pro of Canada maybe, not Montreal. I hate the people in montreal, they all make like they don't speak english...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 07, 2012, 09:21:40 AM
I hate the people in montreal, they all make like they don't speak english...
+1 I've been around and Quebec is the only country where I was made to feel guilty every time I opened my mouth in English.

(http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/epic-fail-photos-engrish-funny-quest-ce-que-a-peut-bien-faire-qubec-what-the-hell-quebec4.png)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Kvending on November 07, 2012, 09:21:56 AM
Did anyone mention Waterbury, CT ?? I have some friends up there & they tell me they love it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 07, 2012, 09:23:35 AM
Did anyone mention Waterbury, CT ?? I have some friends up there & they tell me they love it.
Visited a few times. looks nice and they have a good Deli.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: JEWDA on November 07, 2012, 09:24:58 AM
+1 I've been around and Quebec is the only country where I was made to feel guilty every time I opened my mouth in English.

(http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/epic-fail-photos-engrish-funny-quest-ce-que-a-peut-bien-faire-qubec-what-the-hell-quebec4.png)
+1
As a matter of fact the last time I was there I on purpose went through a stop sign and said if the police catches me I'll tell him it doesn't say stop. My uncle actually did that once and they let him go. But seriously it's the only place in the world...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 07, 2012, 09:28:48 AM
My uncle actually did that once and they let him go. But seriously it's the only place in the world...
Judging by the attitude I got from cops just for asking for directions in English I find that hard to believe...

. But seriously it's the only place in the world...
They are more French then the French themselves...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Kvending on November 07, 2012, 09:29:46 AM
Visited a few times. looks nice and they have a good Deli.

Unfortunately the Deli closed but they have a very nice Pizza store with great tasting Pizza & the Bagel Store there has the best bagels around & I'm from NYC & I've been around to a lot of bagel stores. & recently they opened their first all kosher grocery store that's the store attached to the Pizza Store. So it does seem like an up & coming neighborhood. & as far as the people I met there, they are super nice kind people from what I can see.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 07, 2012, 09:30:45 AM
Unfortunately the Deli closed but they have a very nice Pizza store with great tasting Pizza & the Bagel Store there has the best bagels around & I'm from NYC & I've been around to a lot of bagel stores. & recently they opened their first all kosher grocery store that's the store attached to the Pizza Store. So does seem like an up & coming neighborhood. & as far as the people I met there, they are super nice kind people from what I can see.
Could be, I haven't been there in a few years.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on November 07, 2012, 10:27:15 AM
That's the pro of Canada maybe, not Montreal. I hate the people in montreal, they all make like they don't speak english...

I have been living here for nearly a year and barely speak a lick of French. I know that the perception is that they all hate English-speakers, but I just haven't found that to be true. I have yet to find a French person who didn't speak to me in English or try very hard to help. I guess YQMV.

There are many other pros to living in Montreal, maybe I'll go into them when I have some more time!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Mikeoracle on November 07, 2012, 10:35:52 AM
I have been living here for nearly a year and barely speak a lick of French. I know that the perception is that they all hate English-speakers, but I just haven't found that to be true. I have yet to find a French person who didn't speak to me in English or try very hard to help. I guess YQMV.

There are many other pros to living in Montreal, maybe I'll go into them when I have some more time!
It sounds like you havent been around enough. Maybe the local frenchies near the Jewish community are like that but not throughout the rest of MTL.
I lived there 2.5 years and couldnt stand the frenchies. FOr a while I was a salesman dealing with mom and pop shops, half couldnt talk to me and the rest just wouldnt out of pride... not a good combo to be a successful salesman.
The job market in MTL is horrible.

The only Pro that I found with MTL was that nobody mixed into my business. I did what I wanted, dressed how I wanted etc... and never felt uncomfortable.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 07, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
It sounds like you havent been around enough. Maybe the local frenchies near the Jewish community are like that but not throughout the rest of MTL.

+1 The jewish community is like a ghetto and you can get around just fine but out of it its horrible and from what i hear; out of MTL is even worse.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on November 07, 2012, 12:07:48 PM
Yeah, but the social programs there... nothing beats it.
you could literally be a millionaire just by being poor....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on November 07, 2012, 12:13:21 PM
Yeah, but the social programs there... nothing beats it.
you could literally be a millionaire just by being poor....
Sure! but G-D help you if you ever need the ER CH"V.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on November 07, 2012, 12:33:26 PM
Bottom line: Every place has it's good and it's bad.

My priorities include
cost of living
community
safety
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 07, 2012, 12:39:09 PM
Anyone want to copy my format in the OP for a place like MIA?
Where the community is, school, shuls, cost of living, crime, how the state makes up for having no income tax, etc.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on November 07, 2012, 12:42:05 PM
Can anyone here comment about Columbus, Minneapolis,Baltimore and Dallas?

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on November 07, 2012, 12:45:42 PM
It sounds like you havent been around enough. Maybe the local frenchies near the Jewish community are like that but not throughout the rest of MTL.
I lived there 2.5 years and couldnt stand the frenchies. FOr a while I was a salesman dealing with mom and pop shops, half couldnt talk to me and the rest just wouldnt out of pride... not a good combo to be a successful salesman.
The job market in MTL is horrible.

The only Pro that I found with MTL was that nobody mixed into my business. I did what I wanted, dressed how I wanted etc... and never felt uncomfortable.
+1. Unfortunately the only way to make a living in mtl is if you own a business
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ZCN on November 07, 2012, 01:09:16 PM
From having lived in several out of town communities (DTW,CLE,and now CVG) I'll say that from my point of view the main reason people don't move from NY to out of town is the lack of good jobs. Putting aside that in general Detroit and Cleveland don't have the greatest economy's which results in unemployment problems, from my experience there is also a lack of frum owned business's that can provide a solid salary, as well as a lack of connections in the professional world that help people get good jobs.

 In contrast in the NY area there are so many frum people working professionally that it is easier to get a job via connections, and there are many frum companies that will hire even without a degree or other requirements that would be needed to even be considered for a job with a non frum company.



Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Kvending on November 07, 2012, 01:10:54 PM
From having lived in several out of town communities (DTW,CLE,and now CVG) I'll say that from my point of view the main reason people don't move from NY to out of town is the lack of good jobs. Putting aside that in general Detroit and Cleveland don't have the greatest economy's which results in unemployment problems, from my experience there is also a lack of frum owned business's that can provide a solid salary, as well as a lack of connections in the professional world that help people get good jobs.

 In contrast in the NY area there are so many frum people working professionally that it is easier to get a job via connections, and there are many frum companies that will hire even without a degree or other requirements that would be needed to even be considered for a job with a non frum company.

True. Very well stated.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ZCN on November 07, 2012, 01:17:24 PM
Can anyone here comment about Columbus, Minneapolis,Baltimore and Dallas?


Not sure what you want to know. I live "down the road" from Columbus, from what I know it's a pretty small but close knit community. i believe there is a kollel there and 3 shuls. If you want more info I could put you in touch with someone there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on November 07, 2012, 04:26:27 PM
It sounds like you havent been around enough. Maybe the local frenchies near the Jewish community are like that but not throughout the rest of MTL.
The job market in MTL is horrible.

While it's true that I haven't lived in MTL for very long and I haven't experiened the job market here, I have come into contact with "real" frenchies and I do have some perspective on general things about MTL.

As a student there is nowhere better to live (if you can get resident status). Tuition is dirt cheap and if you have kids, the govt. pays you to attend school! As a student I have come into contact with many Francophones, and have generally found them to be pleasant and helpful. The Jewish community is great, there are a ton of kosher restaurants, grocery stores, shuls etc. While the price of goods is higher due to import taxes it is easily offset by the various govt benefits that are given.
Yeah, but the social programs there... nothing beats it.
you could literally be a millionaire just by being poor....

Unfortunately, ppl dolive off of abuse the programs, however if used properly, where else can a mother of 3 go back to school and become a nurse ($7/day for daycare) or a father of 5 earn their BS (~30k+/yr just for going to school) after getting laid off?

G-D help you if you ever need the ER CH"V.


Eh, it's bad but have you ever waited in the ER in the USA? It's not much fun either. The ER's are (relatively) similar... The difficulty is found more for scheduling procedures, there is a lack of doctor hours (plenty of doctors, they are just deinsentivized from working long hours) and top notch medical machinery. Of course the good ol' USA is heading in that direction, thank you #POTUS.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on January 10, 2013, 04:00:07 PM
Anyone want to copy my format in the OP for a place like MIA?
Where the community is, school, shuls, cost of living, crime, how the state makes up for having no income tax, etc.
Bump. Anyone from Miami?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 10, 2013, 04:08:23 PM
How about Toronto?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on January 10, 2013, 04:09:08 PM
Wiki?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 10, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Wiki?
Bchavod. No need to copy and paste. Just links to the main posts
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on January 10, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
Bchavod. No need to copy and paste. Just links to the main posts
Done  :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shmelly on January 10, 2013, 05:06:32 PM
I almost want to move back to Cleveland after reading Dan's post. Almost.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on January 10, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
I almost want to move back to Cleveland after reading Dan's post. Almost.
Whats missing?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shmelly on January 10, 2013, 05:29:33 PM
Having lived half my life in CLE and half in NYC, I wouldn't be able to live without the conveniences of NYC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2013, 05:34:04 PM
Having lived half my life in CLE and half in NYC, I wouldn't be able to live without the conveniences of NYC.
Nu, so make a post of the Pros and Cons for NYC from your standpoint.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on January 10, 2013, 05:41:06 PM
Nu, so make a post of the Pros and Cons for NYC from your standpoint.
It would be
Pros:
Convenience
Cons:
Everything else  :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2013, 05:45:05 PM
Which part is convenient?
The traffic? The tickets? The noise? The lack of parking? The crime? Expensive housing? Alternate side?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mmermss on January 10, 2013, 05:47:30 PM
Which part is convenient?
The traffic? The tickets? The noise? The lack of parking? The crime? Expensive housing? Alternate side?

I dont know Cleveland but the fact you can roll out of bed and have practically anything you need from any store is pretty convenient. (Not sure if the OP was referring to that aspect)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2013, 05:52:53 PM
What kind of item are you talking about?
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 10, 2013, 05:59:46 PM
I dont know Cleveland but the fact you can roll out of bed and have practically anything you need from any store is pretty convenient. (Not sure if the OP was referring to that aspect)

I hear that.  I live in the midwest. Every once in a while I think it would be nice to have  a makolet just outside my door. :)
But a hustle and bustle of stores? I'll pass. And stores are just a 2 minute car ride away.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on January 10, 2013, 06:08:33 PM
After getting today a $115 parking ticket, just for dropping something off by my in-laws (took around 60 seconds), I'm considering....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2013, 06:10:22 PM
After getting today a $115 parking ticket, just for dropping something off by my in-laws (took around 60 seconds), I'm considering....
My point exactly.
NYC and LA cops are just terrible with their tickets.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2013, 06:10:38 PM
I hear that.  I live in the midwest. Every once in a while I think it would be nice to have  a makolet just outside my door. :)
But a hustle and bustle of stores? I'll pass. And stores are just a 2 minute car ride away.
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 10, 2013, 06:27:28 PM
Which part is convenient?

For example:
restaurants delivering for free at 1am has come in handy many many times.
Being able to walk around the corner to a kosher grocery.
Sending your grocery / fruit and vegetable list to the store and have them deliver it. (do they do that in CLE? I've heard it's a NY thing)
Having minyonim available anytime of the day and night. (Or for that matter having a mincha minyan at the office/store next door)
(You're gonna love this one Dan :) ) Having people who help you (i.e. make it very convenient to) sign up for with food stamps, medicaid etc etc :)

That's off the top of my head.
Obviously there many inconveniences and negatives to living in NYC, but it's not all bad, there are some conveniences.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2013, 06:29:11 PM
For example:Being able to walk around the corner to a kosher grocery.
Sending your grocery / fruit and vegetable list to the store and have them deliver it. (do they do that in CLE? I've heard it's a NY thing)
Having minyonim available anytime of the day and night. (Or for that matter having a mincha minyan at the office/store next door)
(You're gonna love this one Dan :) ) Having people who help you (i.e. make it very convenient to) sign up for with food stamps, medicaid etc etc :)

That's off the top of my head.
Obviously there many inconveniences and negatives to living in NYC, but it's not all bad, there are some conveniences.
Great start to a Brooklyn post, now finish the pro-con list :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on January 10, 2013, 06:43:18 PM
Great start to a Brooklyn post, now finish the pro-con list :)

Dan he put down the biggest con. It is full of people that want to live off others instead of be responsible for their own well being.
Apparently also now you have to show proof of food stamps / wic or medicaid to get any break on tuition.

(You're gonna love this one Dan :) ) Having people who help you (i.e. make it very convenient to) sign up for with food stamps, medicaid etc etc :)

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 10, 2013, 06:57:57 PM
Dan he put down the biggest con.
That has more than one meaning in this case.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 10, 2013, 07:26:20 PM
Great start to a Brooklyn post, now finish the pro-con list :)
How about this:

Pros:
It's only a seven hour drive (or 4.5k Avios) from CLE.

Cons:
Everything else.

:)) :))



(I'll try to write up something a bit more serious later on.)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 10, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
Dan, you get my nomination to represent Beachwood at the Cleveland Booth!
http://www.localjewishnews.com/2013/01/07/cleveland-booth-at-the-parnassah-nationwide-expo/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 10, 2013, 08:47:28 PM
As a native Clevelander who moved back, I feel the ONLY "con" is that it's hard to find a job if you are not some sort of professional (or are going to join one of the 4+ kollelim ;)).  While I am not discontinuing the entrepreneur spirit of my fellow C-Towners, we are just not as big as other cities. In NY you can open a business renting folding chairs for simchas and make some sort of living! That being said I would not live anywhere else!


4+? I thought it was 7+ BH!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on January 10, 2013, 08:57:01 PM
So, as an ex-New Yorker

Pros:
-Huge frum community
-Kosher stores, restaurants etc.. all over the place
-Communities, Shuls & Schools to fit any Hashkafa
-Pomegranate
-Basil (Best Kosher Dairy place in the US in my opinion)
-mass transit system
-Lots of activities / attractions


Cons;
-High crime Neighborhoods
-traffic
-parking & alternate side parking
-Tickets are part of the annual if not monthly budget
-High cost of living
-Tuition
-The Corruptness (including the requirements by some Jewish Agencies to be a registered voter to                            receive assistance, and oh btw if you registered republican don't bother applying for assistance with us)
-People are rude, you don't know your neighbors, etc...
-the need to "keep up with the Jones"
-high taxes
-Cold weather, black snow in the winter. Humidity in the summer

Sorry to all you New Yorkers for knocking your city, I did wait to see if a current New Yorker would write this first ;-)

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on January 10, 2013, 08:57:27 PM
What kind of item are you talking about?

Sushi at 1 AM? No biggie. Maariv at 2 AM? You got it. Shachris at 3 PM? Can usually get that too. :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 10, 2013, 10:16:59 PM
Shachris at 3 PM? Can usually get that too. :P
That's in the winter...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 10, 2013, 10:26:47 PM
Lakewood:
Pro: Lots of kids
Con: Hell to get your kids into any school
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on January 10, 2013, 10:31:54 PM
Lakewood:
Pro: Lots of kids
Con: Hell to get your kids into any school
FTFY
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on January 10, 2013, 10:55:45 PM


 
-The Corruptness (including the requirements by some Jewish Agencies to be a registered voter to                            receive assistance, and oh btw if you registered republican don't bother applying for assistance with us)

Huh? Really? Would you mind to name one?
I dont believe it.
Especially your last comment about republicans.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on January 10, 2013, 10:56:44 PM
After getting today a $115 parking ticket, just for dropping something off by my in-laws (took around 60 seconds), I'm considering....
And while we speak, does SP give 2X points for paying a parking ticket?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bubbles on January 11, 2013, 12:32:53 AM
Grand tour of Manhattan, New York, USA (http://www.airpano.ru/files/Manhattan-New-York-Virtual-Tour/2-2)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 11, 2013, 12:44:00 AM
Grand tour of Manhattan, New York, USA (http://www.airpano.ru/files/Manhattan-New-York-Virtual-Tour/2-2)
I'm dizzy.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 11, 2013, 02:42:56 AM
So, as an ex-New Yorker

Pros:
-Huge frum community
-Kosher stores, restaurants etc.. all over the place
-Communities, Shuls & Schools to fit any Hashkafa
-Pomegranate
-Basil (Best Kosher Dairy place in the US in my opinion)
-mass transit system
-Lots of activities / attractions


Cons;
-High crime Neighborhoods
-traffic
-parking & alternate side parking
-Tickets are part of the annual if not monthly budget
-High cost of living
-Tuition
-The Corruptness (including the requirements by some Jewish Agencies to be a registered voter to                            receive assistance, and oh btw if you registered republican don't bother applying for assistance with us)
-People are rude, you don't know your neighbors, etc...
-the need to "keep up with the Jones"
-high taxes
-Cold weather, black snow in the winter. Humidity in the summer

Sorry to all you New Yorkers for knocking your city, I did wait to see if a current New Yorker would write this first ;-)


FTFY
+3

though i do understand what everyone is saying about brooklyn

i grew up in monsey for 24 yrs

we know our neighbors well :-)
minyanim all over
WE HAVE DRIVEWAYS
frum communities
so we eat non kosher ....keep it in ur own house
we dont have jones's anymore
i only found out what wic was when i came to lkwd :-(
there are plenty of places to shop who deliver and even eat (even though it overrated how everyone closes down)
good schools for the kids
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Saver2000 on January 11, 2013, 02:51:04 AM
+3

though i do understand what everyone is saying about brooklyn

i grew up in monsey for 24 yrs

we know our neighbors well :-)
minyanim all over
WE HAVE DRIVEWAYS
frum communities
so we eat non kosher ....keep it in ur own house
we dont have jones's anymore
i only found out what wic was when i came to lkwd :-(
there are plenty of places to shop who deliver and even eat (even though it overrated how everyone closes down)
good schools for the kids
Cons?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 11, 2013, 05:36:10 AM
Cons?

its getting over populated -
traffic

to be quiet honest i was always very bad with this part of the argument when growing up - i love monsey so not so good at the con part sorry :-(

see when i grew up - i thought it was a good thing i didnt have to feel the pressure to wear boss underwear (far out ex not to insukt anyone)
and i  liked it that eateries werent in my backyard but rather id bike to these places
i liked it that i had a driveway i got to play basketball all the time
i likesd it that i have a big property
i like the quiet at night and day


so i dont pay tuition YET but i def know its cheaper than bmg and darchei so i know that con isnt as bad in monsey
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on January 11, 2013, 05:39:44 AM
Huh? Really? Would you mind to name one?
I dont believe it.
Especially your last comment about republicans.

Not going to name them but suffice to say that in order to get camp scholarships that was what friends of mine were told.
Also the Musaf (mem vav samach fey. Medicaid, wic, food stamps, section 8) scams going on. Including swiping your food stamps cards at certain stores and being given cash.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on January 11, 2013, 12:07:25 PM
So, as an ex-New Yorker

Pros:
-Huge frum community
-Kosher stores, restaurants etc.. all over the place
-Communities, Shuls & Schools to fit any Hashkafa
-Pomegranate :o
-Basil (Best Kosher Dairy place in the US in my opinion)
-mass transit system
-Lots of activities / attractions


Cons;
-High crime Neighborhoods
-traffic
-parking & alternate side parking
-Tickets are part of the annual if not monthly budget
-High cost of living
-Tuition
-The Corruptness (including the requirements by some Jewish Agencies to be a registered voter to                            receive assistance, and oh btw if you registered republican don't bother applying for assistance with us)
-People are rude, you don't know your neighbors, etc...
-the need to "keep up with the Jones"
-high taxes
-Cold weather, black snow in the winter. Humidity in the summer

Sorry to all you New Yorkers for knocking your city, I did wait to see if a current New Yorker would write this first ;-)
pomegranate a plus? :o have u seen gourmet glatt(a whole lot nicer than pomegranate and even cheaper at times than KRM)
the only thing i see in pomegranate, is that if u tell a some wealthy people that it cost more, u make them feel that that they're elite-basically pay more for nothing
all in all you're correct for the most part I've spent the better part of 3 years trying to like where i live and at best ive gotten used to it (the reason i currently live here is for job purposes. but at least i got the wife in agreement that whwen a job comes along out of town for her or for me, the other will actively seek a job there and we'll be able to buy a house cash (or almost)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shmelly on January 13, 2013, 06:41:07 PM
And while we speak, does SP give 2X points for paying a parking ticket?
Yes as of 9 months ago.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 13, 2013, 07:07:12 PM
How about Toronto?
Bump. Anyone here from Toronto? Really would like to hear what you have to say
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MEIR613 on January 13, 2013, 08:00:02 PM
You have to break down NYC.
I live in far rockaway.
Pros
Easy parking

Job market is good even without a degree/experience.

Very good mid range eateries 

Spacious

No one cares what his neighbour is doing

Decent amount of minyanim.(Compare to OOT)

Cons
To go anywhere in the tri state area could take up to 4 hours with traffic

Rent is expensive. 

They don't have a real minyan factory. (Compare to brooklyn)

Your next to lawrence.

I don't have any kids so I can't tell you about tuition but for the first couple years of marriage this is the general picture. 

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 13, 2013, 08:03:53 PM
You have to break down NYC.
I live in far rockaway.
Pros
Easy parking

Job market is good even without a degree/experience.

Very good mid range eateries 

Spacious

No one cares what his neighbour is doing

Decent amount of minyanim.(Compare to OOT)

Cons
To go anywhere in the tri state area could take up to 4 hours with traffic

Rent is expensive. 

They don't have a real minyan factory. (Compare to brooklyn)

Your next to lawrence.

I don't have any kids so I can't tell you about tuition but for the first couple years of marriage this is the general picture. 


"Your next to lawrence. " LOL :)

Another con is crime if you take the subway to Mott avenue. It is not to pretty at night.

ETA- took the bus one night because subway was broken and I saw a person punch the bus driver in the face and then shatter the rear view mirror with another punch. Bus driver said someone call the cops, but I opted not to #onlywhiteguyonthebus ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on January 13, 2013, 08:04:51 PM
You have to break down NYC.
I live in far rockaway.
Pros
Easy parking

Job market is good even without a degree/experience.

Very good mid range eateries 

Spacious

No one cares what his neighbour is doing

Decent amount of minyanim.(Compare to OOT)

Cons
To go anywhere in the tri state area could take up to 4 hours with traffic

Rent is expensive. 

They don't have a real minyan factory. (Compare to brooklyn)

Your next to lawrence.

I don't have any kids so I can't tell you about tuition but for the first couple years of marriage this is the general picture.
interestiong how many of the cons (and pros for that matter) are very subjective. I doubt anyone in Lawrence would say this
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MEIR613 on January 13, 2013, 08:12:06 PM
interestiong how many of the cons (and pros for that matter) are very subjective. I doubt anyone in Lawrence would say this
This is my opinion. Some people couldn't care less about minyanim.
Some don't care about restaurants.

I personally don't like to be near lawrence. I think a lot of them are very stuck up people (I work in lawrence). I'm not saying there aren't not stuck up people but I would not want my kids to be around or hang out in lawrence neighbourhood especially when it comes to tzinius I feel that they missed the boat.   
These are things that I take into factor.
For someone else it could be a whole different picture. 
     

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on January 13, 2013, 08:14:34 PM
This is my opinion. Some people couldn't care less about minyanim.
Some don't care about restaurants.

I personally don't like to be near lawrence. I think a lot of them are very stuck up people (I work in lawrence). I'm not saying there aren't not stuck up people but I would not want my kids to be around or hang out in lawrence neighbourhood especially when it comes to tzinius I feel that they missed the boat.   
These are things that I take into factor.
For someone else it could be a whole different picture. 
   
+100 i could have quoted almost anyone of the posts did not mean yours in particular (except u had a very pointed comment in one community about another community) :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 14, 2013, 06:39:05 AM
+100 i could have quoted almost anyone of the posts did not mean yours in particular (except u had a very pointed comment in one community about another community) :)

meir u happen to be very right, and i agree with you, but you have to realize the negative is more viewd here, i know plenty of frum ppl in lawrence who are yeshiva-lite (tznius and the works). BUT i too would most likely never move near that particular same reason, because even though there is positive frum ppl there, but what we all see is the negative!

You have to break down NYC.
I live in far rockaway.
Pros
Easy parking

Job market is good even without a degree/experience.

Very good mid range eateries 

Spacious

No one cares what his neighbour is doing ?!?

Decent amount of minyanim.(Compare to OOT)

Cons
To go anywhere in the tri state area could take up to 4 hours with traffic

Rent is expensive. 

They don't have a real minyan factory. (Compare to brooklyn)

Your next to lawrence.

I don't have any kids so I can't tell you about tuition but for the first couple years of marriage this is the general picture. 



to me this is an issue very applicable in the five towns in general, (including parts of queens  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 03:18:57 PM
when looking to move to a place, what are the main considerations to take into account? sure alot of minyanim, 5 grocery stores etc are great, eateries are ncie as well but it's more of a luxury and not a necessity. I'ts not why we move to a place. (IMO) I'm assuming it's about jobs, money, expenses, chinuch, safety, affordable housing, and community.

here's my list so far of questions i would need answers for, please critique and feel free to add things i should think about. I'm Chabad, so somethings are not pertinent to all people but it may make a diff to me.

Expenses
income tax (1099/W2)
Gas
Health Insurance
Housing (buying)
Housing (rent)
Food
(are there options for food stamps or other government help)
Chinuch
(are there breaks for teachers/small income and what)

Community:
Safety
Unity (one rabbi, central shul, or many shuls, no authority)
Proper Chinuch, full school or only certain grades
Modern/religious trend
Young or old neighborhood (social reasons)

I have a small business that is mobile so jobs is not an issue (BH) for me, but obviously that's a major player.

The places i'm currently looking at are
Cleveland - Saw Dans write up, very imformative!
Pittsburgh - Have access to info, but would appreciate any input!
Baltimore
North Miami Beach
Los angeles (or driving distance from the schools there, would live in a shlichus community with a commute)


any other places I should consider?

my main reason for wanting to move: is to get away from the city life, where it's all about competition, and who has what etc, there is no unity in CH, and therefore no proper chinuch, hectic life and very expensive. I'm not looking for people to convince me out of my opinion nor am I imposing it onto others. this is just the way I feel

What am I looking for: Affordable housing, a bit of more quiet, some younger families (20+) for a social life (that they should be interested in growing in yiddishkeit) good chinuch (or at least better than CH)
Feel free to PM me if you have info and would like to talk :)

Disclaimer: This post was not meant to be controversial in any way, it's just my opinion and interests.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 03:24:10 PM
Full is $8K-$11K at HAC, discounts are given for multiple children and based on income of course.
I know of people making low 6 figures with 4 kids who get a nice break but of course you'll have to share your 1040 and negotiate I'm sure.

any concrete numbers?

any discounts if you or wife teach in the school?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mclovin on January 14, 2013, 03:25:03 PM
when looking to move to a place, what are the main considerations to take into account? sure alot of minyanim, 5 grocery stores etc are great, eateries are ncie as well but it's more of a luxury and not a necessity. I'ts not why we move to a place. (IMO) I'm assuming it's about money, money, money, chinuch, safety, money, and community.

ftfy  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 03:28:23 PM
ftfy  ;D
i'm being serious here, lets try to keep on task. obviously money is an issue
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 03:37:38 PM
I can write what I know about PIT, but it won't be comprehensive.

The jewish community is in Squirrel Hill.  This is one of very few Jewish communities that haven't flocked towards the suburbs.  It's relatively safe for city living, but not nearly as safe as other suburban communities.

Pros:
-A Chabad school from Pre-K through Mesivta, though some may call this a con.  It's run incompetently but there are precious few Chabad schools with English and this is the best of the sorry bunch.  Only highlights IMHO are the 9th grade Rebbi and Mr. J, the social studies teacher.  Many do move here for the school though.
-Not technically in the Midwest (or any other region), but people are much friendlier than on the East Coast.
-Many major cities (Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, NYC, Toronto, etc) are within driving distance.
-A nice growing young community, fueled by natives moving back home.
-Rita's. 'Nuff said :D

Cons:
-Extremely hilly.  Expect to fall in the winter as ice storms can be common. 
-The kosher restaurant scene is non-existent.  Just a mediocre pizza shop and a bakery in the grocery store.
-Job market can be very tough and most of the community is quite poor (hence the dozen restaurant closures in the past dozen years) and rely on housing boarders for the small extra income that provides at the sacrifice of privacy.
-Houses are from the 1800s and often need major repairs and updating.  Housing is cheap by coastal standards but high compared to most midwestern cities.  Rentals are also very high and hard to find.  Many young couples are moving away from Squirrel Hill to Greenfield is search of affordable housing.
-Most houses don't have garages, and street parking can be hard, especially in the winter.
-Pretty limited shul options.
-The Chabad community is run like a small mafia, shlichus opportunities are generally reserved for those related to the head shliach, and there's little tolerance for any dissent.

Any locals care to chime in/disagree?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 03:38:30 PM
any concrete numbers?

any discounts if you or wife teach in the school?
I think you'd have to call to get concrete number and discuss discounts.  But, yes, I'm sure there are discounts for teachers.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SuperFlyer on January 14, 2013, 03:53:00 PM
Lakewood:
Pro: Lots of kids
Con: Hell to get your kids into any school

Fertile air ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 03:56:54 PM

-The Chabad community is run like a small mafia, shlichus opportunities are generally reserved for those related to the head shliach, and there's little tolerance for any dissent.

Any locals care to chime in/disagree?

i would just say that although this type of community setup with one top person etc is limiting in a way, it helps create achdus, and helps to create a structured environment. which can help as well. If you have an issue in CH with tuition, the rabbi tells you to go ask the school, the school says go to the board the board says go to... etc. Here you go to one place and get it worked out.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 03:59:38 PM
it helps create achdus

Achdus in PIT?
There have been multiple chabad families forced to move out of the community and many who daven at non-chabad shuls for not obeying the party line.

What is created is resentment against the ruling class and the small handful of major g'virim and that is quite palpable when you speak to the locals in hushed voices.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 14, 2013, 04:00:27 PM
i would just say that although this type of community setup with one top person etc is limiting in a way, it helps create achdus, and helps to create a structured environment. which can help as well. If you have an issue in CH with tuition, the rabbi tells you to go ask the school, the school says go to the board the board says go to... etc. Here you go to one place and get it worked out.
The community in general including litvish is very bi'achdus compared to basically any other city I know. Twice a year the 3 shuls all get together at one shul and the Rabbi of another shul gives a sermon, shabbos hagadol and shabbos shuva iirc.
Achdus in PIT?
There have been multiple chabad families forced to move out of the community and many who daven at non-chabad shuls for not obeying the party line.
Meh, its still achdus, and if your not in it your out.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 04:02:04 PM
The community in general including litvish is very bi'achdus compared to basically any other city I know. Twice a year the 3 shuls all get together at one shul and the Rabbi of another girl gives a sermon, shabbos hagadol and shabbos shuva iirc.
True, but that has to do with Chabad comprising over 50% of the jewish community.  No other frum community besides Crown Heights has those numbers, so it's hard to marginalize chabad there.  In fact when other shuls hire a rabbi they make sure they will get along with chabad.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 04:03:29 PM
The community in general including litvish is very bi'achdus compared to basically any other city I know. Twice a year the 3 shuls all get together at one shul and the Rabbi of another girl gives a sermon, shabbos hagadol and shabbos shuva iirc. Meh, its still achdus, and if your not in it your out.
+1

obviously you need to conform to certain standards and that's restricting, but on a daily basis you don't get the vibe etc. If you can handle that type of concept (one ruler) then it has many advantages.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SuperFlyer on January 14, 2013, 04:08:20 PM

-The Chabad community is run like a small mafia, shlichus opportunities are generally reserved for those related to the head shliach, and there's little tolerance for any dissent.

Any locals care to chime in/disagree?

I wouldn't use the word mafia, but this shlichus opportunity thing is common knowledge also for me non-770
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 14, 2013, 04:11:02 PM
I wouldn't use the word mafia, but this shlichus opportunity thing is common knowledge also for me non-770
he's speaking of pittsburgh specific aside from the shlichus aspect.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 04:12:33 PM
I wouldn't use the word mafia, but this shlichus opportunity thing is common knowledge also for me non-770
There's a special machla with Pittsburgh moreso than other places.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SuperFlyer on January 14, 2013, 04:16:56 PM
There's a special machla with Pittsburgh moreso than other places.

if so I apologize not wanting to use the word mafia.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 14, 2013, 04:30:14 PM
Once we're at it shouldn't we add Detroit, Dallas, St. Louis, Toronto, Montreal, Cherry Hill, Phili, Waterbury?
Anyone?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 14, 2013, 04:33:11 PM
There's a special machla with Pittsburgh more so than many other places.
ftfy.
There are plenty of other places which are just as bad in this regard.

(Wow, I just posted something which can possibly be construed as me sticking up for Pitts (and particularly the shluchim there,) mamesh Moshiach tzeiten)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 04:33:49 PM
(Wow, I just posted something which can possibly construed as me of sticking up for Pitts (and particularly the shluchim there,) mamesh Moshiach tzeiten)
:D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 04:54:15 PM
Pros:
-Housing is very cheap.


how much is housing in beachwood?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
how much is housing in beachwood?
In the Beachwood community people live on the University Heights side or the Beachwood side of Green road, the dividing street on which the shuls are located.

UH houses run from $75K-$200K.
Beachwood houses run anywhere from $150K-$700K.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 14, 2013, 05:22:19 PM
What am I looking for: Affordable housing, a bit of more quiet, some younger families (20+) for a social life (that they should be interested in growing in yiddishkeit) good chinuch (or at least better than CH)
Good luck with that.
When you find it please let me know :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 05:31:13 PM
If anyone would like a place to stay for shabbos while checking out CLE I'd be happy to host.  Just give me a couple days heads-up.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 14, 2013, 05:41:37 PM
I gotta say, you make CLE sound quite tempting. although this:
And I went to litvisher school.  I saw the rabbeim joke excitedly when the Rebbe died.
I was harassed for being a lubavitcher by both students and rabbeim alike, told how the only torah true derech would be to go to a litvisher yeshiva.  How chabad is the closest religion to judaism, etc, etc.
(and your other posts in the same vain) definitely puts quite a damper on that idea...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 05:43:39 PM
Indeed.  But the education I received was more advanced than what Pittsburgh offers.

Cbs and other younger Clevelanders say that has died down since my times.  Who knows?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 14, 2013, 05:53:15 PM
Good luck with that.
When you find it please let me know :)

im not Chabad, and I know it wasn't on your list, but the montreal Chabad community might fit the bill. Except the cheap housing part
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 06:08:13 PM
In the Beachwood community people live on the University Heights side or the Beachwood side of Green road, the dividing street on which the shuls are located.

UH houses run from $75K-$200K.
Beachwood houses run anywhere from $150K-$700K.
so why cheaper than pitts?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 14, 2013, 06:14:51 PM
so why cheaper than pitts?
Because for Squirrel hill houses you can buy in UH. Keep in mind the tax differences. I believe UH and Pitts are about the same Beachwood being the lowest. I could be wrong. But down murray where the new community is moving is very cheap.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 06:37:04 PM
so why cheaper than pitts?
There are no $150K houses in Sq. Hill.  Baseline is $200K and even then you're buying a 150 year old dump. 
My bro-in-law bought a place for ~$300K IIRC in Sq. Hill and had to pour in $$$$$ to just partially update it and add central AC/Heat. 
There are no houses in Beachwood or UH without central AC/Heat.

Also Beachwood is a premium city with premium services, low taxes, top-notch schools, etc.  Not something that Sq. Hill offers.  There's a premium for that.
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 06:38:39 PM
There are no $150K houses in Sq. Hill.  Baseline is $200K and even then you're buying a 150 year old dump. 
My bro-in-law bought a place for ~$300K IIRC in Sq. Hill and had to pour in $$$$$ to just partially update it and add central AC/Heat. 
There are no houses in Beachwood or UH without central AC/Heat.

Also Beachwood is a premium city with premium services, low taxes, top-notch schools, etc.  Not something that Sq. Hill offers.  There's a premium for that.
I hear. The thing is no one is moving to UH I understand.  so its beachwood or squirrel hill. Thanks for info
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2013, 06:41:47 PM
The thing is no one is moving to UH I understand.
-1. Have multiple friends who have bought and who rent in UH.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 14, 2013, 09:30:37 PM
Added Brooklyn, Far Rockaway and Pitts to the wiki
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 14, 2013, 09:36:50 PM
If anyone would like a place to stay for shabbos while checking out CLE I'd be happy to host.  Just give me a couple days heads-up.

That's a generous offer.

I'm guessing you might have alot of people coming to "check out" CLE, to get to spend time with Dan.
#allthebigsecretsareingeneraldiscussion:)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 14, 2013, 09:39:39 PM

I'm guessing you might have alot of people coming to "check out" CLE, to get to spend time with Dan.
#allthebigsecretsareingeneraldiscussion:)
Paging Centurion? :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: nis965 on January 14, 2013, 11:23:42 PM
I hear. The thing is no one is moving to UH I understand.  so its beachwood or squirrel hill. Thanks for info
-1..... I just bought a house in UH
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 15, 2013, 01:48:57 AM
I hear. The thing is no one is moving to UH I understand.  so its beachwood or squirrel hill. Thanks for info
Noone is moving to Cleveland Heights is what you prob were referring to. The main dif between Beachwood and UH is taxes and avg age of house. As far as community they share shuls and could be two minutes from each other. I heard from the rumor mill that Cleveland grew by about 60 families this past summer, about 5 came to Cleveland Heights, the others probably even, but ask someone else the breakdown between UH and Beachwood. Besides from Cleveland, if you lived under a mile from your friend it would be considered close. For many people it comes down to where they find a nicer house.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on January 15, 2013, 01:55:03 AM
My wife and I talk about moving to CLE once in a while. (We come pretty often to visit relatives.)

From a visitors POV I'd like to point out some pros and cons that I've noticed.

First, Dan, you keep talking about the high crime rate in NY and the peacefulness in CLE, but when we've ventured just a few blocks from the Jewish neighborhoods we found ourselves in very unpleasant areas. Judging by the 'residents' I would not want to find myself there anytime - armed. However driving in the opposite direction lands you in some of the most beautiful shopping areas I've ever seen - and that includes areas like Miami, New York and L.A. The malls are stunning which is a surprise because most of the neighborhoods I've seen have small old homes. I guess they save their money for buying clothes.

The times I've been there (spring, summer, fall) the weather was beautiful but it's the winter that scares me.

I think what's really keeping me away is the idea of being so far away from all the activity that makes up the vibrant, buzzing, northeast communities. Just things like going out for dinner at a nice restaurant in Manhattan or visiting relatives nearby. It would be so strange to be so far away.

Another nice aspect is the cleanliness. There is barely a paper bag to found in the street. Hard to imagine, but really makes the city. I also love the 'oldness'. So many houses have these enormous oak trees on the front lawn and people seem to really care about their landscaping but not in a pretentious way. Older houses also have a kind of charm; they all seem unique in some way unlike the cookie cutter developments seen all over Monsey/Lakewood etc.

I'll try to think of more things. We are really looking for an easygoing place to raise children without the rat race mentality or the crushing hyperstress that so many people seem to be living under.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 01:59:44 AM
First, Dan, you keep talking about the high crime rate in NY and the peacefulness in CLE, but when we've ventured just a few blocks from the Jewish neighborhoods we found ourselves in very unpleasant areas. Judging by the 'residents' I would not want to find myself there anytime - armed. However driving in the opposite direction lands you in some of the most beautiful shopping areas I've ever seen - and that includes areas like Miami, New York and L.A. The malls are stunning which is a surprise because most of the neighborhoods I've seen have small old homes. I guess they save their money for buying clothes.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that your relatives live in the old neighborhood of Cleveland Heights?
Because I can walk for many blocks in any direction from my house and it's 100% safe.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 15, 2013, 02:09:01 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that your relatives live in the old neighborhood of Cleveland Heights?
Because I can walk for many blocks in any direction from my house and it's 100% safe.
Its not a limb. Without a doubt he is talking about Cleveland heights.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: HelpMe on January 15, 2013, 02:18:35 AM
Because I can walk for many blocks in any direction from my house and it's 100% safe.
You have no crime in your neighborhood?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 02:21:55 AM
You have no crime in your neighborhood?
None that I've ever heard of or experienced.  And people here would talk if that changed.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 15, 2013, 02:22:55 AM
You have no crime in your neighborhood?

Was in the Beachwood softball league, every person on my team was jewish! Coincidence, yes. Would I believe it to be just about 100% safe, I guess so. There's enough action for them in Cleveland Heights and East side, which is closer to home for them. (about 5 miles away)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: HelpMe on January 15, 2013, 02:38:44 AM
None that I've ever heard of or experienced.  And people here would talk if that changed.
The numbers for your area say different. Actually by the numbers where I live is safer. My guess is you are talking about a small concentrated area?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 15, 2013, 02:40:43 AM
The numbers for your area say different. Actually by the numbers where I live is safer. My guess is you are talking about a small concentrated area?
Like I said the vast majority of the crime numbers is from the malls. So unless you live in the mall take 90% of that crime away.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on January 15, 2013, 11:44:36 AM
i would just say that although this type of community setup with one top person etc is limiting in a way, it helps create achdus, and helps to create a structured environment. which can help as well. If you have an issue in CH with tuition, the rabbi tells you to go ask the school, the school says go to the board the board says go to... etc. Here you go to one place and get it worked out.

Here (PIT) you go to one place and get told to jump in a lake... and that's final
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on January 15, 2013, 12:57:01 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that your relatives live in the old neighborhood of Cleveland Heights?
Because I can walk for many blocks in any direction from my house and it's 100% safe.

Correct. But the neighborhoods are pretty close, aren't they?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 15, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
Correct. But the neighborhoods are pretty close, aren't they?
3 Miles apart. That's a bit more than a few blocks.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 01:12:30 PM
But the neighborhoods are pretty close, aren't they?
No.  One is dying while the other is thriving.  You wouldn't mistake one for the other.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 15, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
Here (PIT) you go to one place and get told to jump in a lake... and that's final
your location says Montreal.

you're confirming this? I was under the impression that they work with you... am i not correct?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 15, 2013, 01:21:27 PM
No.  One is dying while the other is thriving.  You wouldn't mistake one for the other.

Can't FTFY for lack of the correct word, but I was in a community that was dying and it doesn't feel the same here.


I think I see multiple reasons why by now, but I always thought it to be funny that in Bklyn, Monsey, Lakewood etc. 2 ppl can live 5 miles away and they both live in Monsey, but in even CH to UH which could be 2.5 miles apart "We don't mistake one for another." (sharing schools and costco's too)

Should this be in the Cleveland thread and not here?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 01:23:53 PM
Can't FTFY for lack of the correct word, but I was in a community that was dying and it doesn't feel the same here.
That's because CH is dying a very slow death, as it has been for 30 years now.  But it's definitely in a death-cycle no less, it's just nuanced and slow.  In 30 years from now there won't be any frum jews in CH.  You can take that to the bank. 

The same thing happened in old jewish neighborhoods like Kinsman, E. Cleveland, and Lee rd.  History repeats itself.
But it's not a bad thing.  I prefer living in a newer neighborhood than PIT's stagnant Sq. Hill community.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 15, 2013, 01:31:08 PM
That's because CH is dying a very slow death, as it has been for 30 years now.  But it's definitely in a death-cycle no less, it's just nuanced and slow.  In 30 years from now there won't be any frum jews in CH.  You can take that to the bank.

In 30 years my house will be 90...
In 30 years I'll need super google to remember that you posted it and see if I can take to the bank or not...
Is that 30 coordinated with the coming Millikin lease?

Instead of dying I'll go for hanging in there...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 15, 2013, 01:33:48 PM
your location says Montreal.
I understood his "here" to mean the location under discussion, not that he's there at the moment.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Fan of Dan on January 15, 2013, 01:39:59 PM
That's because CH is dying a very slow death, as it has been for 30 years now.  But it's definitely in a death-cycle no less, it's just nuanced and slow.  In 30 years from now there won't be any frum jews in CH.  You can take that to the bank. 

The same thing happened in old jewish neighborhoods like Kinsman, E. Cleveland, and Lee rd.  History repeats itself.
But it's not a bad thing.  I prefer living in a newer neighborhood than PIT's stagnant Sq. Hill community.
100% agreed. The neighborhood got much smaller over the past few years and no one young is moving in...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 01:40:29 PM
Instead of dying I'll go for hanging in there...
Good. Less chance of my kids catching something from yours :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 01:40:45 PM
no one young is moving in...
Bingo.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 15, 2013, 01:48:29 PM
Good. Less chance of my kids catching something from yours :D

Noone did, we brought something in from NY and only the Dr even knew about it!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on January 15, 2013, 02:59:33 PM
your location says Montreal.

you're confirming this? I was under the impression that they work with you... am i not correct?

Sorry was just using similar wording to what you used originally. I am in MTL currently, although I have spent many years in PIT (not as a parent however). I heard from ppl (n>1) that they do have discounts for ppl that cannot afford it but they most certainly don't "work with you", they determine what the discount is and that's final.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on January 15, 2013, 03:04:27 PM
I understood his "here" to mean the location under discussion, not that he's there at the moment.

This
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on January 15, 2013, 04:44:06 PM
Although I've posted earlier in the Best Places to live(Lubavitch) thread, I'll reorganize my thoughts for this thread.

North Miami Beach.

Pros:

Cons:


PM me for more details.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 15, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
May-October is a bit hot and humid
Yeah, and NYC is a bit crowded and noisy. :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 04:56:36 PM
Sounds great besides the humidity!

How is the Chabad school situation and how are kids that come out of it?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 04:56:49 PM
Yeah, and NYC is a bit crowded and noisy. :)
:D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on January 15, 2013, 05:14:35 PM
Yeah, and NYC is a bit crowded and noisy. :)

Lol, it was a bit of an understatement!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on January 15, 2013, 05:17:48 PM
How is the Chabad school situation and how are kids that come out of it?

The system goes from nursery to Zal. Nursery till 6th grade(for boys, 12th grade for girls) is in a state-of-the-art facility right next to NMB with smartboards in most classrooms.
7th-Zal is in South Beach. At this time, I would avoid the Mesivta(Chicago, Toronto etc. much better options). Zal depends on the year. The chinuch, though, in the NMB facility is quite
stellar. No politics etc.

How do the kids come out?

Well.... so many things affect the middos, eidelkeit, frumkeit etc. of kids. As long as the kid has good friends, a chassidish and stable home, he/she should come out fine. The school only
adds IMO.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 15, 2013, 07:24:38 PM
7th-Zal is in South Beach. At this time, I would avoid the Mesivta(Chicago, Toronto etc. much better options). Zal depends on the year. The chinuch, though, in the NMB facility is quite
stellar. No politics etc.

Did u hear anything bout the zal moving away from south beach? Heard something like that a few months ago. The zal there is in a pretty bad state b'ruchnius these days/years..
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on January 15, 2013, 07:37:24 PM
Did u hear anything bout the zal moving away from south beach? Heard something like that a few months ago. The zal there is in a pretty bad state b'ruchnius these days/years..

Is yungerman peeling your iteredt
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on January 15, 2013, 07:43:26 PM
Did u hear anything bout the zal moving away from south beach? Heard something like that a few months ago. The zal there is in a pretty bad state b'ruchnius these days/years..

There was talk about it for years. Based on what I heard, Rabbi Shapiro wanted to move it to Fort Lauderdale or Aventura.
In terms of the ruchnius status of the zal, it really depends on the year(Unlike some Zals that are consistent, like Brunoy).
2-3 years ago there was a very good large group.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SGF on January 15, 2013, 07:45:07 PM
Although I've posted earlier in the Best Places to live(Lubavitch) thread, I'll reorganize my thoughts for this thread.
It was also discussed  there  (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=19741.msg296964#msg296964) regarding the crime near that area.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 15, 2013, 07:55:49 PM
Is yungerman peeling your iteredt

 ???

There was talk about it for years. Based on what I heard, Rabbi Shapiro wanted to move it to Fort Lauderdale or Aventura.
In terms of the ruchnius status of the zal, it really depends on the year(Unlike some Zals that are consistent, like Brunoy).
2-3 years ago there was a very good large group.

I know all the groups that were there the past few years, ur right they had it really good for 2 years, the next year after that was terrible.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: chaimmayer on January 15, 2013, 07:56:43 PM
And garbage in NMB is a pain with each family only allowed one big can.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 15, 2013, 07:59:12 PM
And garbage in NMB is a pain with each family only allowed one big can.

Lots of OOT places are like that, but the good thing is u get one of each can, so people recycle alot over there, to fill up the green and blue cans.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mclovin on January 15, 2013, 08:00:21 PM
Lots of OOT places are like that, but the good thing is u get one of each can, so people recycle alot over there, to fill up the green and blue cans.
do you mean ""recycle a lot""
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 08:04:41 PM
Lots of OOT places are like that
In Beachwood you can throw away anything and call for on-demand pickup. And yes, I do mean anything!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on January 15, 2013, 08:19:33 PM
In Beachwood you can throw away anything and call for on-demand pickup. And yes, I do mean anything!

A car? :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on January 15, 2013, 08:35:36 PM
It was also discussed  there  (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=19741.msg296964#msg296964) regarding the crime near that area.

In line with what I wrote there, NMB is one of the safest communities among the wiki list. Don't judge a community by the ZIP code.
President/Crown between Kingston and Brooklyn != Utica Ave
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 15, 2013, 09:34:35 PM
Toronto: (haven't lived there in a while, but...)
pros: Friendly people - even members of other tribes
         Clean streets
         Excellent public transportation system (technically feasible to get by w/o car)
         Many parks/playgrounds (every few blocks)
         Low crime rate
         Wide streets (room for parking and! driving
         Lots of kosher food / restaurants / great bakeries
         Variety of schools/yeshivos for the whole spectrum
         Variety of sports teams, miscellany of museums incl. Hockey Hall of Fame
         World's only yeshiva for the deaf
         Eruv covering most of Jewishly inhabited areas (one of the best there is, halachically)
         Though there is a measure of autonomy to all shuls/rabbis, there is a central authority as every Rabbi/community concedes to a single Rabbi who is recognized by all as (unofficial) chief Rabbi
         There are tuition breaks (w/o being on WIC :P)
         Snow removal is swift, efficient and includes sidewalks
         Growing young communities in multiple areas
         free health care and monthly child allowance
         driveways, garages and yards
         Jewish employers who hire in AND outside job opportunities have gotten better AFAIK
         Kalman's kishke

Cons:Higher taxes (someone's gotta pay for insurance)
         tough job market
         Really long and really cold winters
         Snow, usually lots of it
         Did I mention the winters?
         Price premium on many kosher products (import expenses)
         While remaining low, crime has increased in some areas, mostly due to low income projects being built
         My parents live there (okay, okay, not really relevant to most of you)
         Gas prices are higher than USA
         Housing is not cheap

         Cons really boil down to expenses and winters. Personally, I would easily move there if not for the winters. It really has big city benefits and small town attitude.
         
         
         
         
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 15, 2013, 09:42:12 PM
Thanks. Can you provide a breakdown of the different communities.

Also my understanding is that their is a lot of politics and some discord between the different communities, true?

How come everyone there seems to be related?

How does so much of the community afford to live in huge houses?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:05:06 PM
Toronto: (haven't lived there in a while, but...)
pros: Friendly people - even members of other tribes
         Clean streets
         Excellent public transportation system (technically feasible to get by w/o car)
         Many parks/playgrounds (every few blocks)
         Low crime rate
         Wide streets (room for parking and! driving
         Lots of kosher food / restaurants / great bakeries
         Variety of schools/yeshivos for the whole spectrum
         Variety of sports teams, miscellany of museums incl. Hockey Hall of Fame
         World's only yeshiva for the deaf
         Eruv covering most of Jewishly inhabited areas (one of the best there is, halachically)
         Though there is a measure of autonomy to all shuls/rabbis, there is a central authority as every Rabbi/community concedes to a single Rabbi who is recognized by all as (unofficial) chief Rabbi
         There are tuition breaks (w/o being on WIC :P)
         Snow removal is swift, efficient and includes sidewalks
         Growing young communities in multiple areas
         free health care and monthly child allowance
         driveways, garages and yards
         Jewish employers who hire in AND outside job opportunities have gotten better AFAIK
         Kalman's kishke

Cons:Higher taxes (someone's gotta pay for insurance)
         tough job market
         Really long and really cold winters
         Snow, usually lots of it
         Did I mention the winters?
         Price premium on many kosher products (import expenses)
         While remaining low, crime has increased in some areas, mostly due to low income projects being built
         My parents live there (okay, okay, not really relevant to most of you)
         Gas prices are higher than USA
         Housing is not cheap

         Cons really boil down to expenses and winters. Personally, I would easily move there if not for the winters. It really has big city benefits and small town attitude.
         
         
         
         
I can basically say the same about montreal, but at least montreal has a nhl hockey team ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 15, 2013, 10:10:57 PM
I can basically say the same about montreal, but at least montreal has a nhl hockey team ;)
Toronto is way cleaner.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 10:11:46 PM
Toronto is way cleaner.
Montreal has better food.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on January 15, 2013, 10:11:56 PM
Toronto is way cleaner.
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 15, 2013, 10:15:04 PM
Montreal seems like a friendlier more laid back type of people.

Though the communities themselves seem a bit more black and white then Toronto. 

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
Only plus I see about Toronto is no québécois. #hatethem (But your kids will be leaf fans)
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 15, 2013, 10:16:46 PM
Only plus I see about Toronto is no québécois. #hatethem

Harsh
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:17:06 PM
Montreal seems like a friendlier more laid back type of people.

Though the communities themselves seem a bit more black and white then Toronto. 


+1, -1. Honestly montrealers are really friendly, and has the least amount of black and white cookie cutter nonsense I've ever seen
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 15, 2013, 10:17:27 PM
Montreal seems like a friendlier more laid back type of people.

Though the communities themselves seem a bit more black and white then Toronto. 


Funny. I saw it the other way around...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 15, 2013, 10:18:10 PM
Only plus I see about Toronto is no québécois. #hatethem (But your kids will be leaf fans)
That's the best part :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:18:58 PM
Funny. I saw it the other way around...
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:19:51 PM
Harsh
yup. Honestly, that's the number 1 reason I won't move back
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 15, 2013, 10:20:10 PM
Funny. I saw it the other way around...

:)

Guess it all depends. I used to go often when I was younger though I've never lived there.  And it also depends which parts of the communities you're visiting.

Toronto seems too New Yorky for me.
Too much keeping up with the Cohens etc.

Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 15, 2013, 10:21:06 PM
yup. Honestly, that's the number 1 reason I won't move back

Where part of the community did you live in? What kind of things bothered you ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:23:25 PM
Where part of the community did you live in? What kind of things bothered you ?

de vimy. Hate the whole language thing, language police, French mentality, and to an extent the anti semitism, although montreal is not as bad as st agathe
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 15, 2013, 10:52:01 PM
I can basically say the same about montreal, but at least montreal has a nhl hockey team ;)
Wow, he just baited a Leafs fan :o
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 15, 2013, 10:53:28 PM
Montreal has better food.
In reasons to move somewhere, IMO cleanliness def rates above takeout
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 15, 2013, 10:54:19 PM
In reasons to move somewhere, IMO cleanliness def rates above takeout
Then we should all live in Zurich or Beachwood :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 10:55:05 PM
In reasons to move somewhere, IMO cleanliness def rates above takeout
montreal is pretty darn clean. It's beautiful in the summer
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on January 15, 2013, 10:58:22 PM
Then we should all live in Zurich or Beachwood :D
Not sure how you can say those 2 in the same breath in regards to cleanliness. Air quality counts...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 15, 2013, 11:10:45 PM
montreal is pretty darn clean. It's beautiful in the summer

+1, i could recall once reading an article that Montreal is from the top 10 cleanest cities in USA. And like dan mentioned the restaurant options there are way better than of Toronto's.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bubbles on January 15, 2013, 11:13:23 PM
+1, i could recall once reading an article that Montreal is from the top 10 cleanest cities in USA.


Ummmmm  ??? ???
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 15, 2013, 11:15:45 PM

Ummmmm  ??? ???
lol. Would be a dream come true, montreal in the USA
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 15, 2013, 11:20:32 PM

Ummmmm  ??? ???

lol. Would be a dream come true, montreal in the USA

Whoops, meant in North America.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 15, 2013, 11:51:40 PM
Pro for Toronto- only 4.5 hours by car to Beachwood
Con for Montreal 9.5 hours to Cleveland...

But the main info that was missing:
Toronto: Cheap rent (considering) avg $1200 for a two bedroom
Insanely high prices to buy. A starter home in Thornhill is $450k and down south it's more like $650k, and that's in might expensive loonies (and toonies).
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 15, 2013, 11:55:39 PM
Thanks. Can you provide a breakdown of the different communities.

Also my understanding is that their is a lot of politics and some discord between the different communities, true?

How come everyone there seems to be related?

How does so much of the community afford to live in huge houses?
Bump
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on January 16, 2013, 02:04:15 AM
Thanks. Can you provide a breakdown of the different communities.

Also my understanding is that their is a lot of politics and some discord between the different communities, true?

How come everyone there seems to be related?

How does so much of the community afford to live in huge houses?
Bump

My info on different communities is a bit dated
Basically; down south, more Yeshivaish,
up north (BAYT very modern)
Middle Bnei Torah, Clanton Park, older modern, was dying, by now prob revived to an extent
Chabad everywhere

2 jews 3 shuls, isn't it the norm?

I think that's Cleveland where everyone is related...

no clue, + 1000

I didn't answer your post before since I don't think I can be of any help, I was commenting in the general discussion of Toronto and Montreal...

So, ReBump
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on January 16, 2013, 02:10:24 AM
How come everyone there seems to be related?

How does so much of the community afford to live in huge houses?
The first question answers the second
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 16, 2013, 06:52:04 AM
The first question answers the second
I know that. It's really crazy
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on January 16, 2013, 07:03:05 AM
I know that. It's really crazy
What's crazy is that they can't afford to pave the roads in their little shtetel
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 16, 2013, 07:14:44 AM
What's crazy is that they can't afford to pave the roads in their little shtetel
Our have a nice restaurant
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 16, 2013, 07:16:08 AM
Also, something you'd never see in NY-people living in huge houses but in the driveway they have five year old vans or Honda accord
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 16, 2013, 07:31:33 AM
Also, something you'd never see in NY-people living in huge houses but in the driveway they have five year old vans or Honda accord

Not really in the chabad area, the houses are really small around chabad gate.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 16, 2013, 07:35:07 AM
Not really in the chabad area, the houses are really small around chabad gate.
I was more effecting down south
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on January 16, 2013, 08:15:19 AM
Also, something you'd never see in NY-people living in huge houses but in the driveway they have five year old vans or Honda accord
That's a ma'ale in my books. The other way is sickening to me
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 16, 2013, 08:32:54 AM
That's a ma'ale in my books. The other way is sickening to me
I agree, just very strange and inconsistenT
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moish on January 16, 2013, 08:38:09 AM
Wow, he just baited a Leafs fan :o
i hope you got the new iphone. with the longer screen, you can see how the leafs are doing in the standings without scrolling!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moish on January 16, 2013, 08:39:54 AM
Pros:
-Pomegranate
im not sure how to classify that one. on the one hand a most awesome market, but if i would live nearby, would put a huge dent on my wallet
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 16, 2013, 08:52:31 AM
i hope you got the new iphone. with the longer screen, you can see how the leafs are doing in the standings without scrolling!
great line! :-)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 16, 2013, 08:54:03 AM
i hope you got the new iphone. with the longer screen, you can see how the leafs are doing in the standings without scrolling!
You mean this one?
http://youtu.be/XNBP18nrRdw
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on January 16, 2013, 09:02:20 AM
You mean this one?
http://youtu.be/XNBP18nrRdw
That's for Cleveland fans
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on January 16, 2013, 09:09:35 AM
Here
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on January 16, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
Here

;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
i hope you got the new iphone. with the longer screen, you can see how the leafs are doing in the standings without scrolling!
See that's the thing about Leafs fans...we're known to be very loyal. I guess it's in the water (got to add that to the pro list).
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 07:25:03 PM
nhlsnipers.com
"The fans of Toronto have been waiting a long time for something to really cheer about.  A team that has been near the league’s basement has not made one dent in the organization’s attendance speaks loudly to the incredible loyalty of the fanbase.  Toronto fans keep Canada’s airwaves full of chatter about even the team’s most insignificant moves.  Tickets to Air Canada Center are the most expensive in the league which further proves just how deep the fanaticism runs in Canada’s largest city. "

and from Wikipedia
"Maple Leafs home games have long been one of the toughest tickets to acquire even during losing seasons.[53] Maple Leaf Gardens sold out every game from 1946 until the building closed in 1999.[39] At ACC, the Leafs sold out every game since October 2002.[54] As of 2008, there was a waiting list of about 2,500 names for season tickets...Maple Leaf fans are loyal despite poor rewards—in a 2008 survey by ESPN The Magazine, the Leafs were ranked 121st out of the 122 professional teams in the Big Four leagues."
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 07:44:24 PM
Thanks. Can you provide a breakdown of the different communities.
To elaborate on BarryG's list: All the way south (Eglinton) more baalei tshuva, some MO
                                               South (Lawrence/Bathurst) more yeshivish overall, plus a large concentration of young couples from a variety of labels - traditionally this is an area that a lot of couples start out.
                                               Going further north there are pockets of various kehillos, from more chassidish (Bobov) to haimish/baalebatish (Agudah ); then Downsview/Clanton Park more modern overall, with a Sephardi kollel, a chassidishe shtiebl and a Carlebachy shul thrown in to the mix; Willowdale I guess you can call modern baalebatish, somewhere between Young Israel and Agudah.

                                                North - Thornhill I'm not so familiar with, definitely a mix of types, it's a younger community. Back in the day more to Young Israel flavor, now I think there is a stronger yeshivish presence
                                                Further North - Ner Yisroel yeshiva, including yeshiva lane; plus a whole newly developed area around the yeshiva which I know nothing about.
                                                Past that is the Country Shul and AFAIK a baal tshuva community

And pockets of Chabad throughout the city.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 07:45:37 PM
Also my understanding is that their is a lot of politics and some discord between the different communities, true?
Not sure what you're referring to
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 07:54:57 PM
How come everyone there seems to be related?
I think b/c there are a bunch of old Toronto families that have been there for many years and have done well (some before and after coming). Until recently their children (and grandchildren) were disproportionately moving back to Toronto once married as compared with the general public (for sure in more yeshivish circles). Now there seems to have been a shift and the young community is growing much stronger than in a long time, and more young couples are moving back / moving in.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 08:00:22 PM
As far as the big houses, I think it may have to do with the price of building materials. Also, people tend to have a lot more property than claustrophobic Brooklyn and therefore space to build on.
In addition, the size of many houses is misleading. They may be large in size (due to necessity - large families) but the interiors are simple.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on January 16, 2013, 08:04:35 PM
What's crazy is that they can't afford to pave the roads in their little shtetel
Actually, the little shtetl I assume you speak of has unpaved roads b'davka.

Toronto in general has gorgeous roads, well-maintained, no pothole crises like some North American cities to the south.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on January 17, 2013, 05:06:18 AM
Actually, the little shtetl I assume you speak of has unpaved roads b'davka.
I'm aware. Just pointing out the ludacrisness of that statement
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on January 17, 2013, 08:39:28 AM
I'm aware. Just pointing out the ludacrisness of that statement

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/2917592.jpg)
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: btab on January 17, 2013, 09:51:11 AM
I just read through this thread. I grew up in Dallas, moved to queens for about 6 years and have been living in Miami (NMB 1/2 year and MB 1 year). The only two places I would consider at this point would be Dallas or MB. I would love to write up a list on pros and cons but that will have to wait when I am not using TapAtalk.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 17, 2013, 09:52:56 AM
I just read through this thread. I grew up in Dallas, moved to queens for about 6 years and have been living in Miami (NMB 1/2 year and MB 1 year). The only two places I would consider at this point would be Dallas or MB. I would love to write up a list on pros and cons but that will have to wait when I am not using TapAtalk.
Great, please post!
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 17, 2013, 09:55:18 AM
Great, please post!

+1 Lately I hear more and more nice things about Dallas. Would love to hear your experiences.
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: btab on January 17, 2013, 09:57:30 AM
+1 Lately I hear more and more nice things about Dallas. Would love to hear your experiences.

I was just there for a month of vacation to visit family. I also had the pleasure of visiting San Antonio (first time I saw the Jewish community there)

be"H I will try to post when I get home.
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on January 17, 2013, 10:54:41 AM
+1 Lately I hear more and more nice things about Dallas. Would love to hear your experiences.

+1

One of the places we're considering.
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Fan of Dan on January 17, 2013, 01:45:37 PM
+1

One of the places we're considering.
From what I hear many frum ppl have moved there recently.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on January 18, 2013, 12:35:10 AM
From what I hear many frum ppl have moved there recently.
Texas hasn't been on my list, though I gotta say, they're making a compelling case (http://www.vosizneias.com/121965/2013/01/17/san-antonio-yall-come-to-texas-state-official-tells-new-york-gun-owners). :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 18, 2013, 03:27:55 AM
Dallas is a great city. Unlike most communities in America it is growing.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Fan of Dan on January 18, 2013, 02:22:57 PM
Texas hasn't been on my list, though I gotta say, they're making a compelling case (http://www.vosizneias.com/121965/2013/01/17/san-antonio-yall-come-to-texas-state-official-tells-new-york-gun-owners). :)
That is pretty cool. Wonder how property taxes are.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: btab on January 19, 2013, 10:02:56 PM
I lived in Dallas for almost 19 years. I grew up in the smaller neighborhood which is now currently “up and coming.” I figured that since so many people are interested in Dallas I would share my experience here. Please keep in mind that I am writing from my experience growing up which was a while ago. I will try and insert more current knowledge based on my many visits there.

Also, I am just going to copy and paste what Dan wrote about CLE and tweak it based on how it applies to Dallas. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask and I will definitely try to get you an answer if I know it (and even if I do not, I will find it for you because my family still lives there).

Another note before I post. In general there are about 3 different communites within the “Dallas,” area. There is the SOUTH, NORTH, and the newly developing PLANO area. I grew up in the NORTH neighborhood, so my post will be about the NORTH and I will through in some comparisons with the SOUTH neighborhood.

Pros:
When it comes to safety this is THE neighborhood. I cannot stress how calm and relaxed everyone is. I do not think in all my 19 years there I heard of any burglary or mugging or anything even close to that. To stress how safe it I will tell you that almost everyone in my community leave their doors unlocked all the time. EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT HOME. There was this one guy who went to the Catskills for the summer and left his door open the entire summer in case people needed things from his house.

Housing is very cheap in the NORTH neighborhood. To be honest, it is even cheaper in the PLANO neighborhood, but the community is new and not as developed as the NORTH community. A five bedroom house can go for about 300k. A three bedroom house can go anywhere from 150k-190k. If you are looking to build a house I think the current price I heard was $175 a sq foot.

As in Cleveland, “parking is plentiful and traffic is nothing compared to most cities.” There is a bit of construction going on now which contributes to it, but I don’t think there are many cities with 4-5 lane highways.  The airport is about 45 minutes away which is a little schlep. However, it is constructed brilliantly.

Streets are clean and everyone has a garage. There's no alternate side business and no parking meters. There are places such in downtown that have meters, but in the residential areas you will not find a single meter.

To be honest, I do not know a thing about the taxes; however, from what I hear from my friends and family is that it’s nothing compared to NY, Miami, LA etc. Everyone tells me it is dirt cheap.

People in general are just warm and nice. I am even referring to the goyim. They have this strange knack for trying to make themselves as helpful as possible for you. This also is true with the stores. If they cannot help they will apologize profusely and try to work something out for you.

As Dan said: “Kids seem to come out of schools like the Academy with their heads on straight, generally not nearly as corrupt as some that I've seen come out of  LA/Miami/NYC.” I find this to be true as well in Dallas; however, I never attended yeshiva in high school so I am unsure of what my stance would be in regards to this. In regards to schools there are a couple:  Solomon Schechter (conservative), Torah Day School (yeshivish), Akiba (modern orthodox), Chabad (I am not really sure about their school system but I know they have some type of school for young children). For high school there is: Yavneh (co-ed modern orthrodox), TTI (chofetz chaim), Mesorah (bais yaakov). I am not 100 percent sure if I classified these schools all correctly but if you want more information I will be happy to get it for you.

There has been an influx of young couples moving to Dallas. I can count at least  7 that moved within the past 6 months. There are tons of job opportunities here. I know that a couple of my friends got jobs within the first two weeks that they were there. EVERYONE there is ready to help you find a job. They want you there. JUST ASK and they will do whatever they can.

Downtown is nice. There is a small modern orthodox community there. They have two frum rabbis that are trying to make it more “up and coming.” We have the Cowboys, Mavericks, and Stars. There are a bunch of museums. I just visited the Perot museum which is PHENOMENAL.

There are no beaches but we do have lakes within 45 minutes distance. People use boats and jet skis. Also Oklahoma is right on the border where you can find fun lakes too. There are also bike and walking trails. We do not have too many hills so not too much hiking. We have six flags OVER TEXAS (biggest one in the country). There is speed-zone (where you can drag race, drift, or just do normal go carts). There are a lot of other things like the State Fair, The Science Place, Putt-Putt, etc.***Note some of these attractions consists of 20-45 minute drives.

We have some kosher resteruants. To name some: Café Fino (milchig/pizza), Milk and Honey (grill), Aderet (fleishig/mediterranean and more), Natalie’s Kitchen (fleishig/Israeli), Benny’s Bagels, Tom Thumb (supermarket that has sushi, bakery, deli sandwiches pre-prepared, and much much more!)

The seasons here are “true seasons.” You will experience a fall, winter, spring, and summer. There is at least one day of snow a year. A lot of things close down :) nice for the kids who want to stay home and make hot chocolate and smores! Dallas does not know how to clean up snow. I do not think they even have one street plow.

Cons:
The learning in the community is fairly small. There is no kollel in the NORTH. The SOUTH; however, does have a kollel, so if you are up for a drive everyday then you can take advantage of that.

Politics between shuls and members but you will probably find that everywhere.

As I mentioned there are only a few kosher restaurants. They all pretty much are Mediterranean but also serve the classic burger, dog, and fries. There is not that much of a variety.

If you are looking for a night life then this is not the place for you; although I truly cannot be too sure on this because I have never been the kind of guy who has a “night life.”

Not too many CVS’ sell VRs.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: U-no-me! on January 19, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
WOW!!! Nice report there.  :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: btab on January 19, 2013, 10:06:37 PM
Texas hasn't been on my list, though I gotta say, they're making a compelling case (http://www.vosizneias.com/121965/2013/01/17/san-antonio-yall-come-to-texas-state-official-tells-new-york-gun-owners). :)

Everyone has a gun. I went shooting while I was there. Sooper fun but very scary shooting for the first time...did not know what to expect when it was going to go off.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on January 19, 2013, 10:12:24 PM
WOW!!! Nice report there.  :D

+1, thanks for taking the time!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on January 19, 2013, 11:28:17 PM
Is anyone here from Denver? I'd love to hear what the community there is like..
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: btab on January 20, 2013, 02:12:36 AM
That is pretty cool. Wonder how property taxes are.

I just got an estimate of 2.3% b'erech.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on February 10, 2013, 05:02:35 PM
@Dan Pro of Cincinnati over Cleveland, People ordering Sushi from here for a Bat Mitzvah in Cleveland since "Its a hassle to order sushi in Cleveland, & its much cheaper in Cincinnati & someone is driving from Cincy to Cleveland for the Bat Mitzvah"
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 10, 2013, 05:05:17 PM
There are 2 if not 3 places to get sushi in CLE. And they give a discount on large orders.

Actually had incredible sushi last night at a catered affair in town.

Color me confused.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on February 10, 2013, 09:17:06 PM
I can only say what a customer told me today.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on February 12, 2013, 05:02:58 PM
I can only say what a customer told me today.
People like to be different. Its always a fancy shtick to bring in out of town catering. Could be its cheaper. Do you own a resrataunt in cincy?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on February 12, 2013, 05:28:24 PM
People like to be different. Its always a fancy shtick to bring in out of town catering. Could be its cheaper. Do you own a resrataunt in cincy?
Kosher Manager at the local Kroger. Do you know cincy?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on February 12, 2013, 05:55:17 PM
Kosher Manager at the local Kroger. Do you know cincy?
I've been there a few times. Have some close friends from there. They used to have a great restaurant that served thebbest prime rib. They also had a good bakery. That closed a long time ago though unfortunately :(
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: nis965 on February 12, 2013, 06:39:56 PM
I was actually there (Cincy) recently on business and was told there was a Vegan place that was edible. I stopped by but there hours are a little random and they were closed.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: A3 on February 12, 2013, 06:52:43 PM
And garbage in NMB is a pain with each family only allowed one big can.

-1
I have two big cans.. one can get as many as they want.

Officially there is a one time $50 fee per extra trash can, just call 311, but like a true DDF member, we got our for free.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ebaystores on February 13, 2013, 03:27:27 PM
I was actually there (Cincy) recently on business and was told there was a Vegan place that was edible. I stopped by but there hours are a little random and they were closed.
Ammas, an Indian place, but its Dairy Cholov Stam so I have never eaten there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on February 14, 2013, 05:56:06 AM
Ammas, an Indian place, but its Dairy Cholov Stam so I have never eaten there.

Well then it's not vegan... maybe vegetarian
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on February 24, 2013, 12:43:55 AM
.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on February 26, 2013, 12:44:11 PM
So, as an ex-New Yorker

Pros:
-Huge frum community
-Kosher stores, restaurants etc.. all over the place
-Communities, Shuls & Schools to fit any Hashkafa
-Pomegranate
-Basil (Best Kosher Dairy place in the US in my opinion)
-mass transit system
-Lots of activities / attractions

Late to this post, but Basil is not even close to the best place in Brooklyn. I wouldn't go back with their high prices and subpar food. No wonder you're an ex-NY'er ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on February 26, 2013, 02:39:08 PM
Late to this post, but Basil is not even close to the best place in Brooklyn. I wouldn't go back with their high prices and subpar food. No wonder you're an ex-NY'er ;)
+1. I Agree. I actually just ate in a great dairy restaurant called Siena Cafe. Great food!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 04, 2013, 11:00:29 AM
Can we please revive this thread? I'm considering Huston, does anyone here have an opinion?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on April 04, 2013, 11:36:18 AM
Can we please revive this thread?
+1
I want to get out of NYC. Anybody know anything about Boca Raton?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 04, 2013, 11:43:15 AM
+1
I want to get out of NYC. Anybody know anything about Boca Raton?
Don't you need to be old and rich to live there?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 04, 2013, 11:47:22 AM
Don't you need to be old and rich to live there?
-1, there is a thriving modern Orthodox community
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Saver2000 on April 04, 2013, 11:48:56 AM
Don't you need to be old and rich to live there?
Maybe jaywhy is old and rich   ;D :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on April 04, 2013, 11:49:14 AM
Don't you need to be old and rich to live there?
Used to be that way but not anymore. I went there yesterday to check it out and got a very good initial impression. Housing is cheap, they have a very open and welcoming shul that covers every spectrum from Chabad to MO. Kosher restaurants and grocery stores, close to 2 airports... I'm just beginning my research...
Btw, we went to Euro Fusion based on your review. Good eats. Thanks :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 04, 2013, 11:50:15 AM
Good to know!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on April 04, 2013, 11:50:56 AM
Maybe jaywhy is old and rich   ;D :P
Far from it ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Mocha on April 04, 2013, 12:09:22 PM
Don't you need to be old and rich to live there?
isnt that like one of the 4 places Israelis know of in America?
ברוקלין, לוס אנג'לס, בוקה ראטון, ולאס וגאס.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on April 04, 2013, 12:12:49 PM
every spectrum from Chabad to MO.
Didn't realize Chabad was the other end :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on April 04, 2013, 12:15:59 PM
Didn't realize Chabad was the other end :P

I think Chabad and MO are the two edges of the middle ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 04, 2013, 12:17:43 PM
Anyone with info on Houston?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on April 04, 2013, 12:18:17 PM
Anyone with info on Houston?

They say the economy is good down there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 04, 2013, 12:20:29 PM
They say the economy is good down there.
How about Lubavitch schools? I'm a video editor so I can work just about anywhere, I need to know about schools and taxes.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on April 04, 2013, 12:25:47 PM
Didn't realize Chabad was the other end :P
It's not linear :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: chaimmayer on April 04, 2013, 08:23:00 PM
The back page of the ou pesach mag had a full page add from Jacksonville.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 05, 2013, 08:17:28 AM
Here's my problem, whenever I hear "housing is really cheap" to me that translates into "no one wants to live here"
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on April 05, 2013, 08:22:20 AM
Here's my problem, whenever I hear "housing is really cheap" to me that translates into "no one wants to live here"

Jewish communities are usually expensive because there are tons of Jews there already. If you find a small, fledgling community outside the nyc area, cheap housing is almost automatic.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yossi4k on April 05, 2013, 08:42:55 AM
Don't you need to be old and rich to live there?
Dan, it's not like you don't have cousins living there! :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 08:50:52 AM
Can we get Detroit added to the wiki. Anyone have anything to say about detroit?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 05, 2013, 09:05:16 AM
Can we get Detroit added to the wiki. Anyone have anything to say about detroit?
yea, take out a second mortgage on your car to buy your house, or just charge it to your amex, if your paying cash, dont forget to take your change
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 05, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
And still no word on Houston?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 05, 2013, 09:14:29 AM
Dan, it's not like you don't have cousins living there! :P
lol! I was going to say....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 09:38:28 AM
yea, take out a second mortgage on your car to buy your house, or just charge it to your amex, if your paying cash, dont forget to take your change
What!! You paid for a house!??! The bank begged me to take a house from them they said just plz pay the $.95 property tax every year   :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on April 05, 2013, 10:03:45 AM
What!! You paid for a house!??! The bank begged me to take a house from them they said just plz pay the $.95 property tax every year   :D

Lol! I remember reading a story last year about a guy who bought a house in detroit for a penny!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 10:04:40 AM
Lol! I remember reading a story last year about a guy who bought a house in detroit for a penny!

Sounds about right.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 05, 2013, 11:44:06 AM
Lol! I remember reading a story last year about a guy who bought a house in detroit for a penny!
pretty sure he got ripped off.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on April 05, 2013, 12:02:02 PM
pretty sure he got ripped off.

Nah. I heard the banker returned the cash under the table ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: chaimmayer on April 05, 2013, 01:13:41 PM
Here's my problem, whenever I hear "housing is really cheap" to me that translates into "no one wants to live here"
It's true but the people who do live there love it!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 01:17:35 PM
It's true but the people who do live there love it!

+1 Most people I speak to there do like it. Every city has its pros and cons. And it has all the smaller city Midwest benefits.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 05, 2013, 01:50:09 PM
I'll probably go there for a shabbos to check it out. My free ride in NY is Almost over and I hate the idea of rent.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 01:53:16 PM
I'll probably go there for a shabbos to check it out. My free ride in NY is Almost over and I hate the idea of rent.
Oak Park, MI over Beachwood, OH?
Are you kidding me?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 05, 2013, 01:54:20 PM
Oak Park, MI over Beachwood, OH?
Are you kidding me?
I'm talking about Houston. I don't plan on getting shot so MI and IL are out.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 05, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
Oak Park, MI over Beachwood, OH?
Are you kidding me?
depending on the individual (ime oak park mi is more "yeshivish")
housing seems to be 1/4 the price in mi
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 02:59:16 PM
depending on the individual (ime oak park mi is more "yeshivish")
housing seems to be 1/4 the price in mi
Depends if you want to have to walk around with a bodyguard or shomrim at night...

If you want yeshivish there's always Cleveland Heights or Wickliffe which is a fraction of Beachwood prices.
And if you want safe but cheaper than Beachwood there's University Heights as well.
The irony here is that nobody outside of OH or MI would call Beachwood expensive :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Depends if you want to have to walk around with a bodyguard or shomrim at night...

If you want yeshivish there's always Cleveland Heights or Wickliffe which is a fraction of Beachwood prices.
And if you want safe but cheaper than Beachwood there's University Heights as well.
The irony here is that nobody outside of OH or MI would call Beachwood expensive :D
Its not that bad in oak park I live in oak park and when I'm convincing someone not to move here I wouldn't bring up safety because its not like Detroit there is no action here
 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 05, 2013, 03:06:30 PM
Depends if you want to have to walk around with a bodyguard or shomrim at night...

If you want yeshivish there's always Cleveland Heights or Wickliffe which is a fraction of Beachwood prices.
And if you want safe but cheaper than Beachwood there's University Heights as well.
The irony here is that nobody outside of OH or MI would call Beachwood expensive :D
have u ever been to oak park, this isn't detroit
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 03:06:41 PM
Its not that bad in oak park I live in oak park and when I'm convincing someone not to move here I wouldn't bring up safety because its not like Detroit there is no action here

-1
That isn't true.  While you may not feel unsafe while walking down the street there are plenty of stories that go on in the city.  It isn't the safest place.
But no ones walking around in fear.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 03:09:29 PM
I've been to Oak Park.
You walk a block or 2 the wrong way and it can get pretty scary.  Doesn't exist in Beachwood.

And from what I've heard women get escorted on friday nights, etc.  Is that not true?

#We'reNotDetroit  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yuneeq on April 05, 2013, 03:11:23 PM
-1
That isn't true.  While you may not feel unsafe while walking down the street there are plenty of stories that go on in the city.  It isn't the safest place.
But no ones walking around in fear.

So in new york terms, oak park is considered extremely safe, right?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 03:15:22 PM
I've been to Oak Park.
You walk a block or 2 the wrong way and it can get pretty scary.  Doesn't exist in Beachwood.

And from what I've heard women get escorted on friday nights, etc.  Is that not true?

#We'reNotDetroit  ;D

By the lubvitch community(9 mile) its not so good only I mile frm detroit by the other community's its not bad

A year ago a few black kids punched a kid on shabbos day so the community got federation to pay for security for fri night and shabbos day. I don't think they have this by the lubvitch area
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 03:18:43 PM
Like I said, you can't compare Beachwood safety to Oak Park.  I've never heard of any incidents here...people walk around day and night without fear and leave their doors open and cars running...

Plus Beachwood is a nice melting pot with a shul for you regardless if you're MO, chassidish, yeshivish, lubavitch, sefardish, etc, etc.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 03:21:55 PM
Like I said, you can't compare Beachwood safety to Oak Park.  I've never heard of any incidents here...people walk around day and night without fear and leave their doors open and cars running...

Plus Beachwood is a nice melting pot with a shul for you regardless if you're MO, chassidish, yeshivish, lubavitch, sefardish, etc, etc.
Never said oak park is better just not a dangerous place at all
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 03:24:27 PM
So far you've admitted the lubavitch area is not good and the yeshivish area hires security to keep people safe.
It may not be dangerous but that hardly sounds ideal to me.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 05, 2013, 03:26:04 PM
So far you've admitted the lubavitch area is not good and the regular area hires security to keep people safe.
It may not be dangerous but that hardly sounds ideal to me.
do they attract the neighborhood ;) think CH
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 04:11:22 PM
So far you've admitted the lubavitch area is not good and the yeshivish area hires security to keep people safe.
It may not be dangerous but that hardly sounds ideal to me.

It's more dangerous than people think. Stories aren't always talked about. Plenty of incidents of people getting attacked at night, even during the day on main streets. And I know people who have woken up to find their cars on cinder blocks with the tires gone. Cars get stolen. It doesn't happen every day, all the time but it certainly does happen. And the truth is while people may feel safe walking down the streets at night in their neighborhoods its a bit of a false sense of security.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 04:12:55 PM
It's more dangerous than people think. Stories aren't always talked about. Plenty of incidents of people getting attacked at night, even during the day on main streets. And I know people who have woken up to find their cars on cinder blocks with the tires gone. Cars get stolen. It doesn't happen every day, all the time but it certainly does happen. And the truth is while people may feel safe walking down the streets at night in their neighborhoods its a bit of a false sense of security.
That's what I suspected.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 05, 2013, 04:53:52 PM
It's more dangerous than people think. Stories aren't always talked about. Plenty of incidents of people getting attacked at night, even during the day on main streets. And I know people who have woken up to find their cars on cinder blocks with the tires gone. Cars get stolen. It doesn't happen every day, all the time but it certainly does happen. And the truth is while people may feel safe walking down the streets at night in their neighborhoods its a bit of a false sense of security.
i speak as a visitor (fairly frequent) and i feel no different in the yeshiva area or the parts of southfield that i frequent, than i do in my parents 'hood in chicago
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 05:03:28 PM
i speak as a visitor (fairly frequent) and i feel no different in the yeshiva area or the parts of southfield that i frequent, than i do in my parents 'hood in chicago
West rogers park? Who said that's any safer?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 05:51:02 PM
So far you've admitted the lubavitch area is not good and the yeshivish area hires security to keep people safe.
It may not be dangerous but that hardly sounds ideal to me.
I don't care what ppl think about detroit I'm not one of those guys who get all worked up that there city is better. I don't think ppl should move here its just not bec of the security aspect.



If you were able to get security sponsored for your neighborhood you wouldn't????
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 05:53:24 PM
I don't care what ppl think about detroit I'm not one of those guys who get all worked up that there city is better. I don't think ppl should move here its just not bec of the security aspect.



If you were able to get security sponsored for your neighborhood you wouldn't????

And I still think people should consider Detroit and that's WITH the safety situation.

And the security that goes around the city is kind of a joke. Detroit would be better off with Shomrim. Or neighborhood watch programs like Baltimores for example.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 06:08:12 PM
And I still think people should consider Detroit and that's WITH the safety situation.

And the security that goes around the city is kind of a joke. Detroit would be better off with Shomrim. Or neighborhood watch programs like Baltimores for example.
Why would you suggest ppl to move here?


The little red cars that go around are more than a joke but it give me simchas shabbos. So the federation felt that to give everyone a good laugh its worth the $
   
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 06:16:36 PM
If you were able to get security sponsored for your neighborhood you wouldn't????
Nope, would be a complete waste of money.  Better to let them subsidize schooling.

There are people in shul that come packing heat and that's good enough for me in case of a Mumbai situation cv"s.  Though the odds of terrorists picking CLE would have to be a lot lower than MIA/NYC/LAX/ORD.  Especially if they know about OH concealed carry laws :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 05, 2013, 06:19:54 PM
If you were able to get security sponsored for your neighborhood you wouldn't????

If that ever did happen in Beachwood the police themselves would be on every street corner.

But regardless it's a silly argument. Would you also want a nuclear hazzmat team escorting you home if it was free, in case of a soviet attack? I hope you understand the example, if there is no reason for it 1. It wouldn't be there and 2. It wouldn't be necessary even if it is "free". This is all assuming Beachwood is as safe as Dan says. Which as of now from my understanding I agree it is.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Twin on April 05, 2013, 06:20:41 PM
Nope, would be a complete waste of money.  Better to let them subsidize schooling.


They only subsidize so much this dsnt make a diff
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 06:25:29 PM
Why would you suggest ppl to move here?




I'm not saying Detroit is the place to be. But its def a place for people to consider. Smaller city.  Fairly friendly people. Less black and white than a lot of other places. 4 seasons. Cheaper housing. Etc.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2013, 06:26:00 PM
Everyone likes to believe where they live is safe. Perception is not reality.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 05, 2013, 06:31:12 PM
Everyone likes to believe where they live is safe.
Not in my 'hood.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 06:40:36 PM
Not in my 'hood.
Lol, +∞
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 05, 2013, 06:43:45 PM
Everyone likes to believe where they live is safe. Perception is not reality.
I feel safe basically everywhere I go. Ignorance is bliss :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2013, 06:46:43 PM
I feel safe basically everywhere I go.
I take the opposite approach.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 06:49:18 PM
I take the opposite approach.

You can feel 'safe' and still be aware, prepared, cautious.

I don't feel scared in my city as well but I'm no fool as to what goes on. And I try to make smart choices. 

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2013, 06:52:11 PM
You can feel 'safe' and still be aware, prepared, cautious
Maybe you really don't feel safe?  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 06:54:17 PM
Maybe you really don't feel safe?  ;)

I guess you wouldn't say I feel completely safe, but I don't feel scared. Maybe it's just the lack of focusing on it completely.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sal2011 on April 05, 2013, 07:02:15 PM
Nope, would be a complete waste of money.  Better to let them subsidize schooling.

There are people in shul that come packing heat and that's good enough for me in case of a Mumbai situation cv"s.  Though the odds of terrorists picking CLE would have to be a lot lower than MIA/NYC/LAX/ORD.  Especially if they know about OH concealed carry laws :D
people come to shul in cle on shabbos packing heat?  ???(i only know one person who always packs heat but thats because he is a chaplain you probably know who im talking about though  ::)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 05, 2013, 07:05:16 PM
people come to shul in cle on shabbos packing heat?  ???(i only know one person who always packs heat but thats because he is a chaplain you probably know who im talking about though  ::)

In my city people come to shul with their concealed weapons as well.  And I'm sure more do that I don't know about.
Though IMO not enough.  I think it would be smart to have at least one in every shul.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 07:08:05 PM
i only know one person who always packs heat but thats because he is a chaplain you probably know who im talking about though  ::)
You don't think in nearly every shul in Israel there's someone packing heat?
In Brooklyn or Chicago probably not because it's too hard to get a concealed carry license.

I think it would be smart to have at least one in every shul.
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2013, 07:14:10 PM
In Brooklyn or Chicago probably not because it's too hard to get a concealed carry license.
Might change this summer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 05, 2013, 07:16:54 PM
In my city people come to shul with their concealed weapons as well.  And I'm sure more do that I don't know about.
Though IMO not enough.  I think it would be smart to have at least one in every shul.
True, and that is regardless of the safety of the city. There are crazies everywhere. And possible terrorist I suppose.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whacked1 on April 05, 2013, 07:19:39 PM
i know a guy in brooklyn, i daven with him a lot. he packs, a real shame that he doesnt have a license though. (kinda stupid actually)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 05, 2013, 07:21:12 PM
a real shame that he doesnt have a license though
Probably can't get one.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2013, 07:21:49 PM
(kinda stupid actually)
Sometimes we do stupid things to protect the ones we love.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 05, 2013, 07:24:36 PM
Sometimes we do stupid things to protect the ones we love.
Awwwww CV has a heart. Good to know :)

Anyway I got to leave this convo now, have a great weekend!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on April 05, 2013, 07:27:03 PM
Anyway I got to leave this convo now, have a great weekend!
Enjoy your special day!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 05, 2013, 07:28:05 PM
Enjoy your special day!
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 06, 2013, 10:12:00 PM
West rogers park? Who said that's any safer?
peterson park (see pesach DO)
I feel safe basically everywhere I go. Ignorance is bliss :)
then why are there so many nervous people around  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 06, 2013, 10:14:40 PM
I look at it like swimming in the ocean. I'm not scared when I go swimming in the ocean. I don't swim in fear. But I am very aware of how powerful and dangerous it can be at any time and take necessary precautions and avoid doing stupid things.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: smee123 on April 07, 2013, 07:22:40 AM
In my city people come to shul with their concealed weapons as well.  And I'm sure more do that I don't know about.
Though IMO not enough.  I think it would be smart to have at least one in every shul.
I couldn't agree more
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on April 07, 2013, 10:01:46 AM
Everyone likes to believe where they live is safe. Perception is not reality.
-1
I would like to believe, but I don't believe.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jack12 on April 08, 2013, 02:40:32 PM
+1
I want to get out of NYC. Anybody know anything about Boca Raton?
http://torahacademybr.org
http://www.congregationyagdiltorah.org/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on April 08, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Safety obviously isn't everything. Just ask all the resident Machalites about their next door neighbors.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on April 08, 2013, 02:57:30 PM
Safety obviously isn't everything. Just ask all the resident Machalites about their next door neighbors.
You should be asking our neighbors. We are in their hood, over the green line
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on April 08, 2013, 08:00:44 PM
http://torahacademybr.org
http://www.congregationyagdiltorah.org/
thanks! I'm there now checking out Boca.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 08, 2013, 11:02:55 PM
As an LA native and current resident, I'll try my best to give the pros and cons:

Pros:
-THE WEATHER  8)
-Amazing kosher restaurant scene
-Large Jewish community (many schools, shuls, kosher food options, events, etc)
-Equidistant from HI, AK, and NY (all about 5.5 hour flight)
-Friendly Jewish communities (they might be big, but each community is close and friendly in nature unlike NYC)
-Lots of job opportunities
-Lots of parking (all houses and apartments have driveways for at least 2 cars (1 for some smaller apartments)
-Very health-conscious city (in terms of eating and exercising)
-Lots of natural scenery/activities (including mountains, deserts, vallies, beaches)
-Lots of big-city amenities: LA philharmonic, Hollywood Bowl Orchestra, sports teams (no NFL yet), lots of museums, theaters, performing arts, etc.
-The ability to be near snow (1.5 hours from the city) but not having to deal with it on a daily basis during the winter)
-Large, spacious freeways (only a pro during non-traffic hours)
-Multiple ways to get places (a pro during high traffic hours)
-Plenty of CVSs with VRs
 
Cons:
-TRAFFIC
-Expensive housing (a one bedroom apartments start at $1100/valley, $1300/city; houses are about $950k for 3 bedroom)
-Expensive cost of living (tuition, gas, insurance, etc)
-Far from East Coast, Europe, Israel (almost all deals are from JFK :( )
-Not drivable to almost any large cities besides SAN, LAS, SFO
-Parking: Street cleaning (not officially called alternate side, but same deal)
              Permit parking on some streets (a pain for guests)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 08, 2013, 11:17:38 PM
You forgot:
Ir hagashmius and the ultimate keeping up with the Joneses
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 08, 2013, 11:19:19 PM
Not sure if you count those as pros or cons  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2013, 11:23:04 PM
You forgot:
Ir hagashmius and the ultimate keeping up with the Joneses
Very true.
And the billboards, xxx stores, ads, and the way people dress leads to kids that are typically far from innocent.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 08, 2013, 11:23:16 PM
You forgot:
Ir hagashmius and the ultimate keeping up with the Joneses
i thought that was bklyn
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 08, 2013, 11:29:59 PM
Very true.
And the billboards, xxx stores, ads, and the way people dress leads to kids that are typically far from innocent.

True.  However, in the day-to-day living one doesn't notice the billboards/ads and visit/drive by/see xxx stores.

As for the way people dress...In the winter, people here freeze when it hits 65º so they're all bundled up.  The summers are not as hot (and not at all humid) as most of the country so more pritzus on the east coast.

That said, I agree hollywood definitely has an affect on everyone to some extent.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2013, 11:38:19 PM
True.  However, in the day-to-day living one doesn't notice the billboards/ads and visit/drive by/see xxx stores.

As for the way people dress...In the winter, people here freeze when it hits 65º so they're all bundled up.  The summers are not as hot (and not at all humid) as most of the country so more pritzus on the east coast.

That said, I agree hollywood definitely has an affect on everyone to some extent.
As an out of towner just driving down a main thoroughfare I saw a number of billboards and xxx stores that I wouldn't want my kid to grow up seeing.

And in March with temps in the low 70s people were dressed pretty scantily. And I'm talking about both people off the street and frum people.  Surely you'll admit that standards are very relaxed on the west coast.

And the fancy cars that are so prevalent, even among people who complain about being broke is something I'll never comprehend.

Maybe I'm just a too-sheltered Midwesterner though.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 08, 2013, 11:41:06 PM
I'm so thankful I grew up in a smaller Midwest town. More and more each day.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2013, 11:41:41 PM
I'm so thankful I grew up in a smaller Midwest town. More and more each day.
+1
Was ironic to see the chabad yeshiva in LA tell all of the "in-towners" that they weren't invited back for the following year when I was there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yossi4k on April 08, 2013, 11:47:00 PM
http://torahacademybr.org
http://www.congregationyagdiltorah.org/
btw both those places are in east Boca not Boca proper. Here's for Boca proper:
http://www.yiboca.org
http://brsonline.org
http://www.bjcst.org
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 08, 2013, 11:48:18 PM
Some billboards are inappropriate, but if you live here you stop noticing them after a while.  I lived in Milwaukee while in yeshiva for 7 years (no billboards) and when I came back to LA it was a shock seeing all the billboards.

I agree that people are a lot more relaxed on the West Coast than elsewhere in the country when it comes to frumness/tznius.  People might dress scantily in the 70s, but in Milwaukee if it hit 40º in March people were running in shorts and t-shirts too.

One of the big problems facing the community here is the high cost of tuition.  I agree that way too many people spend all their money on stuff (cars/houses) and then need financial aid to pay the schools.  I don't know if this issue exists elsewhere (ie Brooklyn) but I assume it does.

Anyway, the good weather doesn't come free; we have to pay for it somehow.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 08, 2013, 11:50:02 PM
Some billboards are inappropriate, but if you live here you stop noticing them after a while.  I lived in Milwaukee while in yeshiva for 7 years (no billboards) and when I came back to LA it was a shock seeing all the billboards.

I agree that people are a lot more relaxed on the West Coast than elsewhere in the country when it comes to frumness/tznius.  People might dress scantily in the 70s, but in Milwaukee if it hit 40º in March people were running in shorts and t-shirts too.

One of the big problems facing the community here is the high cost of tuition.  I agree that way too many people spend all their money on stuff (cars/houses) and then need financial aid to pay the schools.  I don't know if this issue exists elsewhere (ie Brooklyn) but I assume it does.

Anyway, the good weather doesn't come free; we have to pay for it somehow.

People dress way more trashy at 80 degrees in areas of  FL and CA than they do at the same 80 degrees in the Midwest. IMO.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 08, 2013, 11:52:18 PM
I think that's because people are skinnier in CA and FL than in the Midwest so they want to show off more.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 08, 2013, 11:53:58 PM
I think that's because people are skinnier in CA and FL than in the Midwest so they want to show off more.

The people are skinnier BECAUSE there is more pressure to be able to wear all those clothes. Plus they have better weather. Either way. It doesn't matter why. It matters that it is.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2013, 11:54:20 PM
People dress way more trashy at 80 degrees in areas of  FL and CA than they do at the same 80 degrees in the Midwest. IMO.
Without a doubt.

One of the big problems facing the community here is the high cost of tuition.  I agree that way too many people spend all their money on stuff (cars/houses) and then need financial aid to pay the schools.  I don't know if this issue exists elsewhere (ie Brooklyn) but I assume it does.

How much is tuition?

Really ought to be simple if I were running the school. Drive an Acura/BMW/Caddy/Inifiniti/Lexus/Mercedes, etc=pay full tuition regardless of what you earn.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 08, 2013, 11:56:10 PM
Without a doubt.

How much is tuition?

Really ought to be simple if I were running the school. Drive an Acura/BMW/Caddy/Inifiniti/Lexus/Mercedes, etc=pay full tuition regardless of what you earn.
+1 I agree 100%
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 08, 2013, 11:57:05 PM
Really ought to be simple if I were running the school. Drive an Acura/BMW/Caddy/Inifiniti/Lexus/Mercedes, etc=pay full tuition regardless of what you earn.

+1

Day schools are around $18k from what I hear (I don't have kids yet).

They did open a high school that has lower tuition (around $8k) but it is far from an ideal school.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 08, 2013, 11:58:05 PM
Day schools are around $18k from what I hear (I don't have kids yet).
Wow, add that to the cons.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:01:32 AM
Noted.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:03:22 AM
Wow, add that to the cons.
There are high schools in NY that charge 15-20k tuition but I never heard a elementry school charge that much.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:05:19 AM
I could be off.  As I said, I don't have kids yet.  I know high school is definitely around there.

Maybe someone else can confirm elementary school prices.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:11:47 AM
I could be off.  As I said, I don't have kids yet.  I know high school is definitely around there.

Maybe someone else can confirm elementary school prices.
http://www.yha.org/admissions/tuition-fees-schedule/

About 17K/18K for elementary...crazy stuff!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:12:28 AM
I could be off.  As I said, I don't have kids yet.  I know high school is definitely around there.

Maybe someone else can confirm elementary school prices.
Your off, last I checked full is around 11k after mandatory dinner etc. Couldn't of climbed that much

Edit: I'm talking about the black hat schools.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:14:08 AM
Scary...and I was hoping to be wrong.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:14:42 AM
http://www.yha.org/admissions/tuition-fees-schedule/

About 17K/18K for elementary...crazy stuff!

Not normal. How do people survive? Are the schools good about giving tuition breaks?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:15:38 AM
Your off, last I checked it's around 11k after mandatory dinner etc. Couldn't of climbed that much
Did you see the link I posted?
Have another?

Besides for housing costing roughly 5x CLE, the school is double and you need at least an Acura to keep up with the Joneses.
Gotta pay for the weather indeed!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:16:18 AM
I'm completely fascinated about how people in the frum communities live. I always wish I could take a peak at everyone's finances and see what's going on.  I wonder how some people do it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:16:31 AM
Not normal. How do people survive?
And those are post-tax dollars...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:16:32 AM
Did you see the link I posted?
Have another?

Besides for housing costing roughly 5x CLE, the school is double and you need at least an Acura to keep up with the Joneses.
Gotta pay for the weather indeed!
ill take the cold weather
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:16:38 AM
They make a lot more money and the ones who don't get big tuition breaks.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:17:27 AM
They make a lot more money and the ones who don't get big tuition breaks.
Who the people who send there?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:19:27 AM
Did you see the link I posted?
Have another?

Besides for housing costing roughly 5x CLE, the school is double and you need at least an Acura to keep up with the Joneses.
Gotta pay for the weather indeed!
See my edit.

You realize you are over generalizing. But I understand the stereotype

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:19:39 AM
The people who like in LA.  It's not a cheap place to live.  You need to be making $100k+ rather quickly if you plan to raise a family here.  Those making $150k with a couple of kids are middle class.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:20:53 AM
The people who like in LA.  It's not a cheap place to live.  You need to be making $100k+ rather quickly if you plan to raise a family here.  Those making $150k with a couple of kids are middle class.
That's everywhere IMO
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:21:22 AM
Just more so in LA.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:22:12 AM
You realize you are over generalizing.
Have a link for another LA school?
In what way am I "over generalizing?"

Don't get me wrong, I love LA perhaps more than any other city in the US and I'm always going back there to vacation and I spent 3 years learning there.  But boy does it have more than its fair share of cons as a city to raise a family.

I would add to the con list earthquakes (even though big ones may only come every couple decades they can be devastating) as well as the highest state income tax in the nation.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:22:18 AM
Just more so in LA.
Why more then Brooklyn? 5 towns?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:23:21 AM
Some billboards are inappropriate, but if you live here you stop noticing them after a while. 
That's the problem
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:23:55 AM
That's the problem
Bingo.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:24:08 AM
and the ones who don't get big tuition breaks.
+1. That's why I don't know what full tuition is
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:25:28 AM
Why more then Brooklyn? 5 towns?
In la it is impossible to buy a house under $1 million
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:26:11 AM
+1. That's why I don't know what full tuition is
Full tuition gives you the only apples-to-apples comparison.  Discounts off that vary based on personal factors.
Full in CLE starts at $8K but most people pay far less.  I doubt anyone in LA is going for the full rate of CLE.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:26:21 AM
In la it is impossible to buy a house under $1 million

So what do people do?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:26:24 AM
In la it is impossible to buy a house under $1 million
Really?? Is that true?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:26:49 AM
In la it is impossible to buy a house under $1 million
At least in the city.
Can always venture out to the valley but the weather isn't as good and the traffic is horrendous.

Really?? Is that true?
Yes.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:26:56 AM
+1. That's why I don't know what full tuition is
But your still getting a break and have to present your finances before a committee. Not pleasant
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
So what do people do?
Live paycheck to paycheck?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Don't get me wrong, I love LA perhaps more than any other city in the US and I'm always going back there to vacation and I spent 3 years learning there.  But boy does it have more than its fair share of cons as a city to raise a family.

It's interesting that there are many young couples coming back to LA and starting their families here.  I don't know if they'll all stay once they have a few kids, but they're coming back for now.

I would add to the con list earthquakes (even though big ones may only come every couple decades they can be devastating)

I didn't include earthquakes for the same reason hurricanes are not included in NY/FL and blizzards/tornadoes are not included in the midwest: natural disasters don't count.  If anything, damaging earthquakes are a lot less frequent than other damaging natural disasters.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:27:53 AM
So what do people do?
Have rich parents/in laws
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
In la it is impossible to buy a house under $1 million
Unless it shot up. Many 2 family houses were not that much more then that. Which lowers the cost considerable. But still probably the most expensive frum place.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:29:07 AM
It's interesting that there are many young couples coming back to LA and starting their families here.  I don't know if they'll all stay once they have a few kids, but they're coming back for now.
Of course they are.
Living in LA is the high life.  It's like flying First, who could go back to coach?
And yet...you have to pay for flying first and in the game of life you can't always use miles.
And it's not $$$$ it's also spirituality.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:29:10 AM
In la it is impossible to buy a house under $1 million

I wouldn't go that far, but it's close. The valley is still under $750k.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:30:09 AM
I wouldn't go that far, but it's close. The valley is still under $750k.
The valley does not equal la
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:31:13 AM
Live paycheck to paycheck?
How does that help if the paycheck isn't big enough.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:31:17 AM
I wouldn't go that far, but it's close.
A growing family likely needs a house that's 4/2.5 or so.
I don't think you can find that in the city for less than 7 figures. CMIIW.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:31:28 AM
How does that help if the paycheck isn't big enough.
Live in debt?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:31:36 AM
The valley does not equal la

It has 99% of the benefits of LA (and it's technically in LA city).  It's just farther north and doesn't have as good weather.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 12:32:11 AM
I didn't include earthquakes for the same reason hurricanes are not included in NY/FL
How can you put NY and FL together when it comes to hurricanes???
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:32:35 AM
It has 99% of the benefits of LA (and it's technically in LA city).  It's just farther north and doesn't have as good weather.
And endless traffic.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: judahk88 on April 09, 2013, 12:32:38 AM
How can you put NY and FL together when it comes to hurricanes???
Sandy? :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:32:45 AM
Live in debt?
Or off the government.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:32:59 AM
Sandy? :P

Yup, and Irene.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
It has 99% of the benefits of LA (and it's technically in LA city).  It's just farther north and doesn't have as good weather.
99%? The weather is not as nice. What benefits does it have?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:34:28 AM
99%? The weather is not as nice. No restaurants. What benefits does it have?

I don't know the last time you were in the valley, but they defiantly have more restaurants than most Jewish communities in America.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:34:44 AM
No restaurants.
That's obviously false.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on April 09, 2013, 12:34:52 AM
The people who like in LA.  It's not a cheap place to live.  You need to be making $100k+ rather quickly if you plan to raise a family here.  Those making $150k with a couple of kids are middle class.

I'd hope that this is after taxes and health ins. b/c $100k minus taxes, health ins, tuition for "a couple of kids" and rent/mortgage will pretty much leave a family w/o $ for food/utilities/Pesach/cars/an $8k Bris/a $30k Bar Mitzva/?Wedding/other semi-important necessities.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:35:51 AM
I don't know the last time you were in the valley, but they defiantly have more restaurants than most Jewish communities in America.
That's obviously false.
My bad
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:36:12 AM
Of course it's after taxes and insurance  ;) .
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:36:50 AM
Of course they are.
Living in LA is the high life.  It's like flying First, who could go back to coach?
And yet...you have to pay for flying first and in the game of life you can't always use miles.
And it's not $$$$ it's also spirituality.
On that topic it was after I dated 2 LA girls that I told my parents I had no interest in dating another.
They had zero interest in living anywhere else, even if a job would necessitate a move elsewhere.

I'm sure there are many exceptions, but I can see why it would be very hard for a LA girl to move elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:36:58 AM
Maybe now meat will be cheaper... And kosher  >:(
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 12:38:00 AM
and Irene.
Irene? what's that? :)

I'm not saying NY never got hit by a hurricane, but you can't put it in the same discussion as FL.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:39:19 AM
On that topic it was after I dated 2 LA girls that I told my parents I had no interest in dating another.
They had zero interest in living anywhere else, even if a job would necessitate a move elsewhere.

I'm sure there are many exceptions, but I can see why it would be very hard for a LA girl to move elsewhere.

Midwesterners are happy visiting LA, happy in Miami, happy in Cleveland, happy in Minnesota. Basically we can be happy anywhere...

Another reason I'm happy to have grown up here. All I can say is Thank G-d.


(Though.. I wouldn't too happy living in NY. But that's just me. Most of my Midwesterner friends would love it.  )
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:39:25 AM
On that topic it was after I dated 2 LA girls that I told my parents I had no interest in dating another.
They had zero interest in living anywhere else, even if a job would necessitate a move elsewhere.

I'm sure there are many exceptions, but I can see why it would be very hard for a LA girl to move elsewhere.

+1

It's even harder when 2 LA people get married.  Their chances of leaving are almost nil.  That's why I'm so happy I spent my teenage years in Milwaukee: I have no problem living not in LA.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:40:19 AM
(Though.. I wouldn't too happy living in NY. But that's just me.)

+1
I think that's most non-NYers.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on April 09, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
How can you put NY and FL together when it comes to hurricanes???

Well, if you're a what have you done for me lately type - NY has had multiple hurricanes and the Oct snow of beginning of last winter which was brutal as well.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:40:42 AM
+1

It's even harder when 2 LA people get married.  Their chances of leaving are almost nil.  That's why I'm so happy I spent my teenage years in Milwaukee: I have no problem living not in LA.
LOL
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:40:47 AM
Midwesterners are happy visiting LA, happy in Miami, happy in Cleveland, happy in Minnesota. Basically we can be happy anywhere...

Another reason I'm happy to have grown up here. All I can say is Thank G-d.


(Though.. I wouldn't too happy living in NY. But that's just me. Most of my Midwesterner friends would love it.  )

Exactly why I married one :)
#BestKeptSecrets
And neither of us would ever be happy in NYC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:42:35 AM
Exactly why I married one :)
#BestKeptSecrets
And neither of us would ever be happy in NYC.

You went to the extreme even..  Kansas, USA  :)

Pretty far away from LA.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:42:45 AM
I didn't include earthquakes for the same reason hurricanes are not included in NY/FL and blizzards/tornadoes are not included in the midwest: natural disasters don't count.  If anything, damaging earthquakes are a lot less frequent than other damaging natural disasters.
I hear ya though I do think earthquakes are a con in CA as Hurricanes ought to be in FL.
Blizzards are included in CLE=hard winters.  Though I've never heard of a blizzard demolishing a home and we don't get tornadoes in these parts.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:43:45 AM
You went to the extreme even..  Kansas, USA  :)
Willing to move almost anywhere :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:44:08 AM
I hear ya though I do think earthquakes are a con in CA as Hurricanes ought to be in FL.
Blizzards are included in CLE=hard winters.  Though I've never heard of a blizzard demolishing a home and we don't get tornadoes in these parts.

Fair.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:44:43 AM
So what are the pros and cons of living in Kansas?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:45:10 AM
Exactly why I married one :)
#BestKeptSecrets
And neither of us would ever be happy in NYC.
My wife and I are born and bred New Yorkers and yet have been looking to leave since we got married and will be doing so this summer
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:45:46 AM
My wife and I are born and bred New Yorkers and yet have been looking to leave since we got married and will be doing so this summer

Congrats! Where you headed?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:45:53 AM
So what are the pros and cons of living in Kansas?

I can think of many cons, but what pros are there that are not included in CLE, CVG, or DFW?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:46:23 AM
My wife and I are born and bred New Yorkers and yet have been looking to leave since we got married and will be doing so this summer

Way to go!!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:48:00 AM
Congrats! Where you headed?
YYZ
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 12:48:32 AM
My wife and I are born and bred New Yorkers and yet have been looking to leave since we got married and will be doing so this summer
good for you!

I've been leaving "in the summer/next year" for the last 8 years :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:49:33 AM
YYZ
Mazel Tov!
What made you pick YYZ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 12:49:59 AM
So what are the pros and cons of living in Kansas?
I seem to remember Dan having done a post on that. I'm not sure if it was here or on the main site...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:50:05 AM
YYZ

Toronto is almost like living in NY....

...OK maybe not quite...:)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:50:09 AM
good for you!

I've been leaving "in the summer/next year" for the last 8 years :)

The longer you stay the harder it is to leave.  Good luck next "summer."
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:50:37 AM
Toronto is almost like living in NY....

Hello!!! It's in CANADA!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:53:00 AM
Hello!!! It's in CANADA!
Still a major city with bad traffic and a high cost of living.
Though cleaner and friendlier than NYC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:53:26 AM
Mazel Tov!
What made you pick YYZ?
My wife got offered a job. It's a big community but definitely an out of town one. The main community (Bathurst and Lawrence) happens to be very gashmi and five Townsy but we won't be living there
Originally we were planning to go to ORD but this fell into our laps
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:54:27 AM
Still a major city with bad traffic and a high cost of living.
Though cleaner and friendlier than NYC.
All true points
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 12:55:21 AM
All true points
And all that can be said for ORD as well :)
Neither would be my first pick if I had to move.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 12:55:34 AM
Still a major city with bad traffic and a high cost of living.
Though cleaner and friendlier than NYC.

I know, I was joking.  :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on April 09, 2013, 12:55:41 AM
My wife and I are born and bred New Yorkers and yet have been looking to leave since we got married and will be doing so this summer
Good for you!
We are also hoping to be out of NYC by the summer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 12:56:06 AM
The main community (Bathurst and Lawrence) happens to be very gashmi and five Townsy
More than Thornhill?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 09, 2013, 12:56:47 AM
My wife got offered a job. It's a big community but definitely an out of town one. The main community (Bathurst and Lawrence) happens to be very gashmi and five Townsy but we won't be living there
Originally we were planning to go to ORD but this fell into our laps

Very nice. Hope you guys are very happy there. :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:57:57 AM
And all that can be said for ORD as well :)
Neither would be my first pick if I had to move.
Fair enough. But my wife was not excited about CLE. I would have loved Houston but it is way too hot. Not much other choices
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 12:58:29 AM
My wife got offered a job. It's a big community but definitely an out of town one. The main community (Bathurst and Lawrence) happens to be very gashmi and five Townsy but we won't be living there
Originally we were planning to go to ORD but this fell into our laps
Toronto is mini NY. Still  the same schools as the NYorker wannabes . I have found LA to at least nit have the wanna be NYorker problem.

But kudos for getting out of Brooklyn
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 12:59:03 AM
More than Thornhill?
Definitely. You feel like you can't go out to dinner without getting dressed up down South. Thornhill is much more chilled out
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on April 09, 2013, 01:00:04 AM
I have found LA to at least nit have the wanna be NYorker problem.

+10
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 01:00:14 AM
Toronto is mini NY. Still  the same schools as the NYorker wannabes . I have found LA to at least nit have the wanna be NYorker problem.

But kudos for getting out of Brooklyn
Don't live in Brooklyn. And I don't think that's true
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 01:02:00 AM
I have found LA to at least nit have the wanna be NYorker problem.
But how do you put up with all the people leasing luxury cars ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 01:02:48 AM
But my wife was not excited about CLE.
Should've took me up on my offer earlier in this thread :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on April 09, 2013, 01:02:51 AM
Exactly why I married one :)
#BestKeptSecrets
I tell all my single friends to marry CLE girls.
Unquestionably the best move of my life
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 01:03:05 AM
I tell all my single friends to marry CLE girls.
Unquestionably the best move of my life
:D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 01:03:25 AM
Don't live in Brooklyn. And I don't think that's true
Sorry I thought you wrote that. Like everything about LA it's a generalization. But based on truth
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 01:03:59 AM
Definitely. You feel like you can't go out to dinner without getting dressed up down South. Thornhill is much more chilled out
That's not how I remember it -at least with the Lubavitch communities...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 01:05:10 AM
That's not how I remember it -at least with the Lubavitch communities...
Can't comment on those
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yaakov s on April 09, 2013, 01:05:24 AM
But how do you put up with all the people leasing luxury cars ;)
My clunker  draws much more attention then theirs. Never saw anyone blink when they passed. By me even before I actually could be seen  people are looking  :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 01:05:58 AM
Should've took me up on my offer earlier in this thread :)
:)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on April 09, 2013, 01:20:22 AM
I tell all my single friends to marry CLE girls.
Unquestionably the best move of my life

And how's that working out, and 1st dates yet? (NY/NJ-Cleveland dates)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: nis965 on April 09, 2013, 07:15:32 AM
I tell all my single friends to marry CLE girls.
Unquestionably the best move of my life
Couldn't agree more!  :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 09, 2013, 08:20:09 AM
Fair enough. But my wife was not excited about CLE. I would have loved Houston but it is way too hot. Not much other choices
That was the only thing that bothered you about Houston? What did you hear about the schools?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 08:26:32 AM
That was the only thing that bothered you about Houston? What did you hear about the schools?
Never really got that far
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 09, 2013, 09:01:39 AM
Never really got that far
so one seems to have any real info. I'll probably go check it out myself one of these days...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on April 09, 2013, 09:08:38 AM
so one seems to have any real info. I'll probably go check it out myself one of these days...
I have a friend who lives there. Want his contact info?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 09, 2013, 09:11:16 AM
Really ought to be simple if I were running the school. Drive an Acura/BMW/Caddy/Infiniti/Lexus/Mercedes, etc=pay full tuition regardless of what you earn.
right for the most part. but what about the guy who says " i got a deal on my g37x for 250 a month" (there actually was such a deal) then it cost about what a camry cost. u could argue that, even so, if u want to drive a luxury car , u gotta pay up. Some may argue though that if u fly biz/first even with points or a deal, if u want to live that luxury life u gotta pay up. And that is why most schools i know of base tuition scholarships of tax returns, which in ny is pointless bec.  everyone has some off the books income
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 10:49:59 AM
right for the most part. but what about the guy who says " i got a deal on my g37x for 250 a month" (there actually was such a deal) then it cost about what a camry cost. u could argue that, even so, if u want to drive a luxury car , u gotta pay up. Some may argue though that if u fly biz/first even with points or a deal, if u want to live that luxury life u gotta pay up. And that is why most schools i know of base tuition scholarships of tax returns, which in ny is pointless bec.  everyone has some off the books income
At least in CLE they do ask what kind of cars you drive if you apply for a scholarship.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 09, 2013, 10:54:00 AM
At least in CLE they do ask what kind of cars you drive if you apply for a scholarship.
If you got a good deal on a luxury car I'm sure they'll understand. No? What if your parents give you the Mercedes, but that's it? Can I assume they use common sense?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 09, 2013, 11:01:15 AM
If you got a good deal on a luxury car I'm sure they'll understand. No? What if your parents give you the Mercedes, but that's it? Can I assume they use common sense?
If your parents can afford to give you a merc it follows that they can also afford to help finance your kids education...

Frankly I have no idea how those decisions work, I just know they ask.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 09, 2013, 11:04:15 AM
If your parents can afford to give you a merc it follows that they can also afford to help finance your kids education...

Frankly I have no idea how those decisions work, I just know they ask.
extra car =/= extra cash. But wtvr I don't have either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 09, 2013, 11:15:44 AM
I have a friend who lives there. Want his contact info?
sure!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on April 09, 2013, 01:44:57 PM
Really ought to be simple if I were running the school. Drive an Acura/BMW/Caddy/Inifiniti/Lexus/Mercedes, etc=pay full tuition regardless of what you earn.
I think that's way oversimplifying it.
For example, (besides what others have mentioned above,) if you're talking about deciding whether somebody should be paying lets say 5 or 10 grand, I would tend to agree with you. (As a general guideline not an absolute rule. It is possible for somebody to have a fancy car and not have a cent to their name)
Once you're talking about multiple kids and large amounts of money it's a whole different story. You cant say that because somebody is splurging and spending an extra couple of hundred bucks a month on a car it means he can afford to pay 100k/year in tuition.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yossi4k on April 10, 2013, 12:16:31 AM
Definitely. You feel like you can't go out to dinner without getting dressed up down South. Thornhill is much more chilled out
Bathurst and Lawrence still has a quite yeshivish mix. Bathurst and Eglinton is where it gets very trendy...IMHO
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MEIR613 on April 10, 2013, 12:28:51 AM
I tell all my single friends to marry CLE girls.
Unquestionably the best move of my life
That's cuz it's a lot easier to attend a CLE DO ;)

If you got a good deal on a luxury car I'm sure they'll understand. No? What if your parents give you the Mercedes, but that's it? Can I assume they use common sense?
I know a lot of people that there in-laws/parents give them certain things that would be considered way over their budget.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on April 10, 2013, 01:41:04 AM
I know a lot of people that there in-laws/parents give them certain things that would be considered way over their budget.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. It's sad that even some people from the previous generation have screwed up priorities.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 10, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
Its not that bad in oak park I live in oak park and when I'm convincing someone not to move here I wouldn't bring up safety because its not like Detroit there is no action here
No action...

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/21751868/man-chases-captures-suspect-after-purse-snatching-in-southfield?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=8670091#.UWVzxyTh_eM.facebook

"The manager at One Stop Kosher Food Mart said last week the same guy snatched another purse, that time with an accomplice."


Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Steven on April 12, 2013, 10:22:49 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan-brooklyn-expensive-article-1.1313956
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on April 14, 2013, 08:07:25 PM
The main community (Bathurst and Lawrence) happens to be very gashmi and five Townsy but we won't be living there
-1
Bathurst and Lawrence still has a quite yeshivish mix.
+1
I grew up in that neighborhood. There are definitely some pockets of young couples like Ergel is talking about, plus a bunch of younger guys who made it, but overall the core is quite yeshivish. It's a mix of older families, kollel couples, former kollel couples, some baalei tshuva, some MO etc.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on April 15, 2013, 11:32:37 AM
I know a lot of people that there in-laws/parents give them certain things that would be considered way over their budget.

I saw something in a sefer once that could be a potential justification. It was on hilchos maaser ksafim, and it was going through business expenses that could be deducted before taking maaser. Basically it said that if someone has a fancy car because they need it to attract clients, or to be able to do business with certain types of people, the excess cost over a regular car could potentially be deducted from the cheshbon hamaaser.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on April 15, 2013, 11:52:13 AM
I saw something in a sefer once that could be a potential justification. It was on hilchos maaser ksafim, and it was going through business expenses that could be deducted before taking maaser. Basically it said that if someone has a fancy car because they need it to attract clients, or to be able to do business with certain types of people, the excess cost over a regular car could potentially be deducted from the cheshbon hamaaser.
Are you trying to be naïve? This may be true for a select few, but not an entire community....

It is an interesting discussion whether or not driving a fancy car will  give you an edge in certain industries.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on April 15, 2013, 12:10:07 PM
Are you trying to be naïve? This may be true for a select few, but not an entire community....

It is an interesting discussion whether or not driving a fancy car will  give you an edge in certain industries.

What can I say, I listened to a shiur about dan l'kaf zechus on the way in to work  ;D

Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone (more likely hardly anyone), just thought it was an interesting point.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on April 15, 2013, 12:12:20 PM
I know this was mentioned already regarding NMB, but no state income tax is a big plus in Dallas and Houston. From what I've heard the job market in both is really good too, as is the housing market. I don't know much else about them, just what I've heard from a few friends looking into moving there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on April 15, 2013, 02:05:47 PM
I know this was mentioned already regarding NMB, but no state income tax is a big plus in Dallas and Houston. From what I've heard the job market in both is really good too, as is the housing market. I don't know much else about them, just what I've heard from a few friends looking into moving there.
No state income taxes, means no EIC, a minus to many :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 15, 2013, 02:09:39 PM
No state income taxes, means no EIC, a minus to many :D
the state eic is only a small part compared to the federal eic
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 15, 2013, 02:13:04 PM
I know this was mentioned already regarding NMB, but no state income tax is a big plus in Dallas and Houston. From what I've heard the job market in both is really good too, as is the housing market. I don't know much else about them, just what I've heard from a few friends looking into moving there.
No state tax is great, but what are the schools and communities like? Restaurants?
I know in Houston at least the weather can be pretty miserable for much of the year.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on April 15, 2013, 02:16:57 PM
the state eic is only a small part compared to the federal eic
Still not small  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Marco Polo on April 15, 2013, 05:21:15 PM
I'm completely fascinated about how people in the frum communities live. I always wish I could take a peak at everyone's finances and see what's going on.  I wonder how some people do it.
Churning :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on June 19, 2013, 12:52:08 PM
This past Friday when leaving my house in the morning (in Beachwood) I found a bike on the side of my house. After calling everyone that would have left it there I called the non-emergency police phone number. I explained my situation and the lady told me an officer will be there to pick up the bike shortly. Three minutes later a swat car is at my front door.

Can you imagine what their response time is for a shooting?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on June 19, 2013, 05:32:00 PM

When I was there on Pesach, a dog was lost. 6 cop cars showed up including some unmarked.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: theberk on June 20, 2013, 08:58:31 PM
As a Cincinnati resident of 5 years here is my list: (Copying some from dans :-)

Pros:
-Amberley village (the main frum neighborhood) is quite, crime is virtually unheard of, The police are there to serve you, and will even stop by and change the light bulbs by the elderly residents houses.
-As long as you have your Amberley Village resident sticker tickets for speeding are unheard of :-)
-Housing is very cheap.
-Parking is plentiful and traffic is nothing compared to most cities.  There's also cheap train service connecting the jewish community with downtown and the airport.


AFAIK there is no train in Cincinnati besides for Amtrak.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YT on June 23, 2013, 02:35:33 AM
I'm moving to chicago in a month.  Anyone got some pro's for me to look forward to?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on June 23, 2013, 02:49:52 AM
I'm moving to chicago in a month.  Anyone got some pro's for me to look forward to?
Milt's and Shallot's :))

Which community are you moving into?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YT on June 23, 2013, 02:52:33 AM
Milt's and Shallot's :))

Which community are you moving into?

Lol.  WRP b'h. Looking  in Winston towers but we don't have a place yet. Is the weather actually worse than nyc?

I'm actually in for the weekend and going shallots tomorrow night  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on June 23, 2013, 02:54:58 AM
Lol.  WRP b'h. Looking  in Winston towers but we don't have a place yet. Is the weather actually worse than nyc?

I'm actually in for the weekend and going shallots tomorrow night  ;D
DO?

My uncle is on the board for winston towers I believe. You probably already talked to him. If not PM me for more info.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yordai Dooma on June 23, 2013, 07:35:16 AM
DO?

My uncle is on the board for winston towers I believe. You probably already talked to him. If not PM me for more info.
There are 5 winston towers buildings. Each has a separate board
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on June 23, 2013, 10:45:16 AM
There are 5 winston towers buildings. Each has a separate board
7141 north kedzie ave  Chicago IL  60645.

And they have a beautiful apartment. I was shocked at how nice it was.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 23, 2013, 10:57:50 AM
Lol.  WRP b'h. Looking  in Winston towers but we don't have a place yet. Is the weather actually worse than nyc?

I'm actually in for the weekend and going shallots tomorrow night  ;D
Worse weather and traffic/crime may even be worse if that's possible depending on the area.

But
-AA (Avios!), UA, and WN hubs, means you have lots of opportunities for flight redemptions to get out of town :D
-Cheap tickets to Israel
-Flights from pretty much any contiguous North American city to ORD are under 4 hours.
-AMEX, Chase, and Citi all pull from different bureaus

Milt's and Shallot's :))
Yup, that was also on the first slide from the ORD Seminar in addition to the stuff above :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YT on June 23, 2013, 11:39:45 AM
7141 north kedzie ave  Chicago IL  60645.

And they have a beautiful apartment. I was shocked at how nice it was.

They have any 2 Bedrooms available there yet?
I haven't actually spoken to anyone on any board I've only spoken to brokers.

Worse weather and traffic/crime may even be worse if that's possible depending on the area.

But
-AA (Avios!), UA, and WN hubs, means you have lots of opportunities for flight redemptions to get out of town :D
-Cheap tickets to Israel
-Flights from pretty much any contiguous North American city to ORD are under 4 hours.
-AMEX, Chase, and Citi all pull from different bureaus
Yup, that was also on the first slide from the ORD Seminar in addition to the stuff above :)

Thanks lol. I meant to ask if the weather is significantly worse because I'm coming from NY where its gross and rainy all winter and hot and humid all summer. I hear it snows more in Chicago but I would rather have it snow then plow it as opposed to getting drenched in the rain no?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on June 23, 2013, 11:43:57 AM
I meant to ask if the weather is significantly worse because I'm coming from NY where its gross and rainy all winter and hot and humid all summer. I hear it snows more in Chicago but I would rather have it snow then plow it as opposed to getting drenched in the rain no?

Get back to me after you've done it for a winter season.

FWIU, Chicago is MUCH colder than NY, and it snows MUCH more. To me, I think I'd rather a bit more humidity in the summer than getting nailed each and every winter with face-shattering cold.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YT on June 23, 2013, 11:57:52 AM
Get back to me after you've done it for a winter season.

FWIU, Chicago is MUCH colder than NY, and it snows MUCH more. To me, I think I'd rather a bit more humidity in the summer than getting nailed each and every winter with face-shattering cold.

lols ya but I've been in Jerusalem for 4 years where the winter cold freezes your bones. Get a good coat for Chicago and your fine. Thats not the case with the winters in Jerusalem
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 23, 2013, 12:09:57 PM
This is practically required for midwest winters:
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/56530?page=noreaster-commuter-coat-with-gore-tex-knee-length&subrnd=0

Sure it's ugly, but as long as you're already married you'll be nice and warm and laughing at the folks freezing their 'okoles in a wool peacoat.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on June 23, 2013, 01:44:45 PM
Get back to me after you've done it for a winter season.

FWIU, Chicago is MUCH colder than NY, and it snows MUCH more. To me, I think I'd rather a bit more humidity in the summer than getting nailed each and every winter with face-shattering cold.
Having grown up in Chicago, and now living in Bklyn, I would disagree. Except for the past couple of years in which NYC has experienced some of it's mildest winters in history, I would say that Chicago is definitely worse but not significantly. (this is not based on any stats just raw memories) 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on June 23, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
My pops would disagree... he said he'd never move back after what he experienced there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 23, 2013, 02:45:16 PM
10 coldest cities based on average winter low temp:
1. Minneapolis, Minnesota    11
2. Denver, Colorado    18
T2. Milwaukee, Wisconsin    18
4. Chicago, Illinois    19
5. Rochester, New York    20
6. Buffalo, New York    21
T6. Hartford, Connecticut    21
T6. Detroit, Michigan    21
T9. Indianapolis, Indiana    23
T9. Salt Lake City, Utah    23
T9. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania    23
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Fan of Dan on June 23, 2013, 03:06:45 PM
Cleveland isn't on the cold list? It's in the same region as many of the other places you mentioned.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 23, 2013, 03:08:47 PM
Cleveland isn't on the cold list? It's in the same region as many of the other places you mentioned.
We're Tied-12th :)

Minneapolis is really crazy, it's 218% warmer in CLE ;D

If only the warm places weren't so pritzusdike/megushem/expensive :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YT on June 23, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
This is practically required for midwest winters:
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/56530?page=noreaster-commuter-coat-with-gore-tex-knee-length&subrnd=0

Sure it's ugly, but as long as you're already married you'll be nice and warm and laughing at the folks freezing their 'okoles in a wool peacoat.

HAHA maybe just go for this

http://www.thenorthface.com/catalog/sc-gear/collections-suggested-picks-new-arrivals/mens-himalayan-suit.html

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on June 23, 2013, 05:29:48 PM
DO?
You're in Chicago now?
I was "supposed" to be there today but things didn't quite work out...
I might still be there later this  evening...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on June 24, 2013, 01:09:33 AM
ORD (compared to NYC) is colder in the winters and I believe hotter in the summers as well. And despite it not being named the Windy City for it's weather (rather for it's politics) it is very windy which is blistering in the cold.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: plainbachur on June 24, 2013, 02:36:03 AM
I wish I lived in cleveland since Dan lives there
and I love Dan :-*
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on June 24, 2013, 04:17:42 AM
I wish I lived in cleveland since Dan lives there
and I love Dan :-*

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

You know he's married, right? With a kid?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Red on June 24, 2013, 04:20:13 AM
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

You know he's married, right? With a kid?
Nu nu, everyone comes along with baggage these days.  :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moishebatchy on June 24, 2013, 04:38:33 AM
Nu nu, everyone comes along with baggage these days.  :P

ROFL!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: uptown on July 01, 2013, 04:55:31 PM
Hello people. I just read this thread for the first time so allow me to spill some fresh thoughts and first impressions.

This thread's general vibe is that -

New York sucks
Why live In Town if you can chill outa town?
Although levels of Yiddeshkiet and spiritual growth are certainly important, other factors such as eateries, weather, drive time and traffic are just as important.

So let me real quick burst some bubbles.

Yes, New York has many disadvantages such as traffic, tickets yada yada yada BUT first off, a billion times more Jews of all types live here than there, so we can theorize all day every day if its because no one cared to get away from Ellis Island or that they hate it but its the only place on G-d's green earth that has jobs, but you cant argue with the facts. Many more frum Jews live in New York than anywhere else in the USA. (In other news, a billion times more people are moving here than anywhere. Every community is expanding insanely. So it can not be that everyone hates it. And by the way, out of towners move in ALL THE TIME and very often THEY LOVE IT.)

Again, there are pluses to outta town, but there is no place in Chutz Laaretz with as much Torah, Yeshivos, Tzidaka and plain old God blessed Klal Yisroel as New York (will throw New Jersey and Connecticut a bone - Tri State). We bust out more talmeidi chachamim and community activists than anywhere else. 

When listing the various important qualifications for a good community, why not put Judaism related issues first, cost of living and crime second and all other narishkeit third? Talk about people having their heads on straight!

And another point. Reading through this thread it seems like the mid west guys have a chip on their shoulder.
Hey Dan! You are a great guy, but why the hate? Pitt sucks, LA is horrid etc. Look, if Beachwood is truly the Garden of Eden why are you so interested in other communities? You're vibe screams GET ME OUTTA HERE.

You also have this hang up on how evil folks with fancy cars are. I cant help but laugh. You described yourself in a different post as "migusham", you fly all over the world and live it up in insane hotels. Yes yes, its all free miles, but guess what TIME IS MONEY. So you are paying for all of this with expensive money. I mean time and effort. Oh, its what you enjoy? O.K. these folk like nice cars.

I am not saying that you do not have a point, you do, but you make it like the worst thing in the world by far is living paycheck to paycheck and driving an Acura. I know you drive an Altima but chill.

Now I know that some people will accuse me of being mean but people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The hating New York attitude is gross and probably a little bit of envy since they get all the excitement and shabbos table shmoozing. Some Ahavas Yisroel on your part may have an effect on the wicked New York folk who are obviously all stuck up, never say good shabbos when they pass each other on the street (Oh G-d, that's worse than chillul shabbos) and drive acuras. Oh, I forgot, they also chill in fancy hotels.
Title: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 05:13:09 PM
Hi again Shlomo Zalman.
Duplicate accounts are against DDF Forum rules.

Thanks for playing!
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: hocker on July 01, 2013, 05:15:20 PM
And, frankly, eidelkeit is found in far greater measure in NY than anywhere else in Chut Laaretz. It is OOTers suffering from an inferiority complex that are frequently all hateful about NYers and cannot stop themselves from constantly putting down Yidden from NY.
Under what rock are you posting this from?
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 01, 2013, 05:17:39 PM
i dont mind going out on a limb and say, nykers are mean nasty and selfish. obviously there are those that are not, but thow can one be insulted, the whole way of life in NY is to be that way.
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on July 01, 2013, 05:19:09 PM
Hi again Shlomo Zalman.
Duplicate accounts are against DDF Forum rules.

Thanks for playing!

Whoa!!! Hit it right on the nail!
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moes Tavern on July 01, 2013, 05:20:13 PM
This guy is such a tool. I wonder which NYC he is living in, surely doesn't sound like the one I grew up in.
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on July 01, 2013, 05:22:40 PM
Pretty easy to get under everyone's skin over here. Kudos @sz for bring able to entertain yourself so easily
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DH Data Recovery on July 01, 2013, 05:23:23 PM
This guy is such a tool. I wonder which NYC he is living in, surely doesn't sound like the one I grew up in.
Hey where is that NY eidelkeit I've been hearing so much about
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moes Tavern on July 01, 2013, 05:25:01 PM
Hey where is that NY eidelkeit I've been hearing so much about
I am not allowed to live in NYC anymore because I have no eidelkeit  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 01, 2013, 05:25:03 PM
Hey where is that NY eidelkeit I've been hearing so much about
right at the corner of excuse me and thank you
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on July 01, 2013, 05:56:06 PM
If you guys like paying through your bloody noses for Yeshiva tuition, feel free to live OOT. In The City That Never Sleeps tuition is substantially cheaper.
ALOL!
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: chucksterace on July 01, 2013, 05:58:31 PM
Hi again Shlomo Zalman.
Duplicate accounts are against DDF Forum rules.

Thanks for playing!
Hmmm, a game you say? Can I play? Me likeeyyy games :D
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 01, 2013, 06:04:24 PM
Wow
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on July 01, 2013, 06:04:49 PM
Hmmm, a game you say? Can I play? Me likeeyyy games :D

Not this game.
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Saver2000 on July 01, 2013, 06:06:44 PM
Dan can you move that post to the thread in js?
I think everyone following that thread would get a good laugh.
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 06:11:49 PM
At any rate, to clarify a few things.

-I don't care if people drive fancy cars.  If you can afford it then good on you!  But I don't want to hear from people with a fancy car about how they're broke but they feel like they need to keep up with the Schwartzes or whatever other reason they would rather drive a fancy car rather than pay full tuition or save for a down payment on owing a house. 
If you have the miles then enjoy them, isn't that what they're for?  If you have the money then it's your privilege to live large and hopefully give large as well.

-I have nothing against any communities.  I'm not saying where I live is perfect, every place on Earth has its share or pros and cons and only a fool would deny that.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eliteflyer on July 01, 2013, 06:31:14 PM
Looking to move out of our 1BR in Crown Heights.

We're looking for a 3BR 2BA. Most such units in Crown Heights  appear to be priced above $2500, with a few on the outskirts of the Jewish community pricing in at about 2000 per month.  Some people told us to check out Kew Garden Hills. Are the prices any better there? It's pretty important to us to find a place with a reasonable commute to Grand Central.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 01, 2013, 06:31:24 PM
Right now I'm looking for a place to live in the USA that's not NY or Cali. I hope to visit Houston, Coral Springs and the suburbs of Philly to check them out over the summer. (I know, not the best time to go but I can't travel as easily after the summer).
I haven't noticed anything on those cities in this thread, is there anyone here who has any info? Asking specifically about the Chabad communities.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 06:32:32 PM
Looking to move out of our 1BR in Crown Heights.

We're looking for a 3BR 2BA. Most such units in Crown Heights  appear to be priced above $2500, with a few on the outskirts of the Jewish community pricing in at about 2000 per month.  Some people told us to check out Kew Garden Hills. Are the prices any better there? It's pretty important to us to find a place with a reasonable commute to Grand Central.
What about Teaneck? Monsey too far of a commute?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 06:33:57 PM
Right now I'm looking for a place to live in the USA that's not NY or Cali. I hope to visit Houston, Coral Springs and the suburbs of Philly to check them out over the summer. (I know, not the best time to go but I can't travel as easily after the summer).
I haven't noticed anything on those cities in this thread, is there anyone here who has any info? Asking specifically about the Chabad communities.
What do you do for a living?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on July 01, 2013, 06:39:38 PM
Looking to move out of our 1BR in Crown Heights.

We're looking for a 3BR 2BA. Most such units in Crown Heights  appear to be priced above $2500, with a few on the outskirts of the Jewish community pricing in at about 2000 per month.  Some people told us to check out Kew Garden Hills. Are the prices any better there? It's pretty important to us to find a place with a reasonable commute to Grand Central.

If you choose KHG, you'll have to take a bus to a train every day to get to GC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on July 01, 2013, 06:42:26 PM
Right now I'm looking for a place to live in the USA that's not NY or Cali. I hope to visit Houston, Coral Springs and the suburbs of Philly to check them out over the summer. (I know, not the best time to go but I can't travel as easily after the summer).
I haven't noticed anything on those cities in this thread, is there anyone here who has any info? Asking specifically about the Chabad communities.
I'm don't know much about the Lubavitch community, but maybe check out Elizabeth
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eliteflyer on July 01, 2013, 06:44:03 PM
If you choose KHG, you'll have to take a bus to a train every day to get to GC.
or just an express bus from what I understand, reading the QM1 and QM5 schedule. This is definitely an advantage of Crown Heights where both the 5 and 4 are within 15 minutes walk with express trains to Manhattan every few minutes in the mornings.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 01, 2013, 07:05:04 PM
What do you do for a living?
I film and edit video. Can be done anywhere.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 07:09:22 PM
Houston and Coral Springs I get if you want warm weather.
But Philly? Doesn't that open up pretty much anywhere in the country? PIT? ORD? CLE? MKE? BWI? etc,
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 01, 2013, 07:19:31 PM
Each one of those places have their own issues, I don't like the crime in Chicago, pittsburgh is boring and in the middle of nowhere. I'm looking for a place with chabad schools and a decent size chabad community.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on July 01, 2013, 07:22:59 PM
Right now I'm looking for a place to live in the USA that's not NY or Cali. I hope to visit Houston, Coral Springs and the suburbs of Philly to check them out over the summer. (I know, not the best time to go but I can't travel as easily after the summer).
I haven't noticed anything on those cities in this thread, is there anyone here who has any info? Asking specifically about the Chabad communities.
My brother in law is moving to Coral Springs in 3 weeks. He's done a lot of research on it. PM me and I can put you in touch with him. He's Chabad.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on July 01, 2013, 07:24:43 PM
Each one of those places have their own issues, I don't like the crime in Chicago, pittsburgh is boring and in the middle of nowhere. I'm looking for a place with chabad schools and a decent size chabad community.

If Pittsburgh is the middle of nowhere then where is Huston?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on July 01, 2013, 07:29:04 PM
Looking to move out of our 1BR in Crown Heights.

We're looking for a 3BR 2BA. Most such units in Crown Heights  appear to be priced above $2500, with a few on the outskirts of the Jewish community pricing in at about 2000 per month.  Some people told us to check out Kew Garden Hills. Are the prices any better there? It's pretty important to us to find a place with a reasonable commute to Grand Central.
Definitely not looking to buy? There are relatively cheap homes 3 blocks across Eastern parkway on Sterling. It is right near a large assistant living center which adds a feeling and reality of better security on that block.

I know a guy from Cleveland who bought there relatively recently, if you are interested at all.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 01, 2013, 07:29:20 PM
My brother in law is moving to Coral Springs in 3 weeks. He's done a lot of research on it. PM me and I can put you in touch with him. He's Chabad.
thanks, I have a friend who lives there already!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 01, 2013, 07:32:42 PM
If Pittsburgh is the middle of nowhere then where is Huston?
easy to fly to Hawaii :)
Seriously, zero state income tax (like Florida), when it's not humid, it's really nice, growing economy so easy to find work if things don't work out with my business, and good economy + good public schools which means the people on the street are normal...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on July 01, 2013, 07:34:09 PM
easy to fly to Hawaii :)
Seriously, zero state income tax (like Florida), when it's not humid, it's really nice, growing economy so easy to find work if things don't work out with my business, and good economy + good public schools which means the people on the street are normal...
You didn't mention state income tax. That seems to be the strongest argument for you to mover to TX or FL.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 07:46:41 PM
You didn't mention state income tax. That seems to be the strongest argument for you to mover to TX or FL.
Yup, though the humidity is tougher for me to deal with than the snow.

Anyway if you'd like to check out Beachwood you're more than welcome to stay by me.  You're only 4,500 Avios away from being back in the middle of somewhere :D
Starting next year small businesses will get a massive state income tax cut though I'll admit 0% sure is enticing.
If a place like CA with an amazing climate had 0% I'd probably be living there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 01, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
Yup, though the humidity is tougher for me to deal with than the snow.

Anyway if you'd like to check out Beachwood you're more than welcome to stay by me.  You're only 4,500 Avios away from being back in the middle of somewhere :D
Starting next year small businesses will get a massive state income tax cut though I'll admit 0% sure is enticing.
If a place like CA with an amazing climate had 0% I'd probably be living there.
thanks for the offer! Ca has amazing weather and great food choices but everything else is no good. One plus for Ohio, your vote actually means something...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on July 01, 2013, 07:55:33 PM
thanks for the offer! Ca has amazing weather and great food choices but everything else is no good. One plus for Ohio, your vote actually means something...
Same with FL, maybe even more.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 07:58:22 PM
Same with FL, maybe even more.
How so?
Show me the Republican elected president without carrying OH...

Still I think a real reason to move here would be Beachwood city services.  90% jewish, affordable housing with lower than average taxation, on-demand garbage pickup, and top-notch public and private schools=safe streets.

But if can't handle winter then don't move here, simple as that.  But the typically awesome spring and summer make up for it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on July 01, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
How so?
Show me the Republican elected president without carrying OH...
Show me a recent election decided by OH?
Regardless, your vote in both states actually counts, so that's a plus for both.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bubbles on July 01, 2013, 08:33:29 PM
Show me a recent election decided by OH?
Regardless, your vote in both states actually counts, so that's a plus for both.

You're not really counting that as a plus are you?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2013, 08:38:09 PM
Show me a recent election decided by OH?
Regardless, your vote in both states actually counts, so that's a plus for both.
How about both Bush elections?
JFK was the only guy in the past century+ to win without carrying OH.
AKA as OH goes so goes the nation.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on July 02, 2013, 01:12:35 AM
Hi again Shlomo Zalman.
Duplicate accounts are against DDF Forum rules.

Thanks for playing!
Wow! Is that the end of the NY-is-the-best-place-in-the-whole-world rant?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Lotofsimcha on July 02, 2013, 01:37:56 AM
Wow! Is that the end of the NY-is-the-best-place-in-the-whole-world rant?

GOD willing... If your from NY we know you THINK its the best place in the world...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: henche on July 02, 2013, 01:45:15 AM
Pro: people work less than in NY
Con: I'd like a few more kosher places to eat; rent is expensive as all get out
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 01:55:03 AM
I'm don't know much about the Lubavitch community, but maybe check out Elizabeth
its a dying community that some how is staying afloat
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on July 02, 2013, 01:55:55 AM
If your from NY we know you THINK its the best place in the world...
-1
I am from NY, and have lived here all my life, but I don't think its the best place in the world. Especially for the above mentioned reasons.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 02, 2013, 02:00:22 AM
-1
I am from NY, and have lived here all my life, but I don't think its the best place in the world. Especially for the above mentioned reasons.
Then you're not a real NY'er :D

Listen, I've got nothing against NY.  I love that I can get a great meal for a 9K BA flight and you need a huge mass of people to support such institutions, so by all means, stay and support them :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 02:01:53 AM
-1
I am from NY, and have lived here all my life, but I don't think its the best place in the world. Especially for the above mentioned reasons.
i am from monsey (does that count from ny?) well, i have to agree with dov bear. what happens is, (i will talk for myself) i love the way i grew up, i love the way i turned out and i loved everything about my childhood. so in turn it would make sense for me to say 'monsey is the greatest,' but i wont. i understand that everyone is diff and that everyone has diff views on what they want in life and what they see fit to raise a family and so on. so will i say monsey is the greatest...no. i happen to think monsey is great...for me! :) and dont get me wrong, there are plenty of chisronos about living in ny! someone who says NY is the best is just a very shallow person, but so is the person who says ny is the worst place ever! be real, its ok to!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 02, 2013, 02:04:17 AM
i am from monsey (does that count from ny?) well, i have to agree with dov bear. what happens is, (i will talk for myself) i love the way i grew up, i love the way i turned out and i loved everything about my childhood. so in turn it would make sense for me to say 'monsey is the greatest,' but i wont. i understand that everyone is diff and that everyone has diff views on what they want in life and what they see fit to raise a family and so on. so will i say monsey is the greatest...no. i happen to think monsey is great...for me! :) and dont get me wrong, there are plenty of chisronos about living in ny! someone who says NY is the best is just a very shallow person, but so is the person who says ny is the worst place ever! be real, its ok to!
Well said.
Even if you could use a few line breaks :P #AJKWillGetYou
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CountValentine on July 02, 2013, 02:10:26 AM
#AJKWillGetYou
I think rots5 has exempt status.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on July 02, 2013, 02:11:34 AM
Then you're not a real NY'er :D
We have the diagnosis! ;D
Real NYer or not, only a shallow minded person (to quote Rots5) can proclaim 'NY is the best'.
There are pros and cons to every place, and enumerating them is the purpose of this thread.
The statements above, about NY, were starting to sound like a kindergarten my-Totty-is-stronger-than-your-Totty argument.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on July 02, 2013, 02:12:32 AM
Well said.
Even if you could use a few line breaks :P #AJKWillGetYou
+1
C:-) >:D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 02:13:07 AM
Well said.
Even if you could use a few line breaks :P #AJKWillGetYou
lol. if hed only look at the Thai thread now ;) 

i cant stand writing on my commuter. no autocorrect, and no auto caps like on the phones :)

#complaintsof2013kids
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 02:14:05 AM
I think rots5 has exempt status.
bec? :D finally someone with some respect lol
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Cbs on July 02, 2013, 08:35:25 AM
Reading through this thread it seems like the mid west guys have a chip on their shoulder.
Hey Dan! You are a great guy, but why the hate? Pitt sucks, LA is horrid etc.
Cuz its true!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on July 02, 2013, 08:37:52 AM
I think rots5 has exempt status.

-1, everyone should endeavor to type like a mensch... Especially on a computer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on July 02, 2013, 09:20:37 AM
i am from monsey (does that count from ny?) well, i have to agree with dov bear. what happens is, (i will talk for myself) i love the way i grew up, i love the way i turned out and i loved everything about my childhood. so in turn it would make sense for me to say 'monsey is the greatest,' but i wont. i understand that everyone is diff and that everyone has diff views on what they want in life and what they see fit to raise a family and so on. so will i say monsey is the greatest...no. i happen to think monsey is great...for me! :) and dont get me wrong, there are plenty of chisronos about living in ny! someone who says NY is the best is just a very shallow person, but so is the person who says ny is the worst place ever! be real, its ok to!
Monsey is not NYC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 09:32:04 AM
-1, everyone should endeavor to type like a mensch... Especially on a computer.
Im sorry. I wish i can type on a computer correctly. I start typing quick but i forget to go back and re correct my writings. I have completely changed my writing style after a few complaints. Even when on my computer i try, but when i write a lot its hard to go back and correct myself. I will fed work on it more.

Its funny how the one or two times i don't write correctly i am not mentch. :P

Monsey is not NYC.
as i started off, if monsey counts. Though can it count towards something that my father is..... :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DH Data Recovery on July 02, 2013, 09:37:55 AM
Most NY'ers hate NY because of expensive rent and housing and no grass, other than that we're pretty much ok with it. We don't think its the greatest but its pretty good at the end of the day.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 02, 2013, 09:49:02 AM
...someone who says NY is the best is just a very shallow person, but so is the person who says ny is the worst place ever! be real, its ok to!

I think it's worth pointing out that the same is true for someone who says that about any other community. While I understand that much of it has been more in response to the 'other side' of the discussion, it still sounds a little childish, regardless of which side of the argument it's coming from. We can get input from people living in various communities without anyone  mentioning a word about a place other than where they live. I'm not saying explicit comparison wouldn't be helpful, but it has brought more distraction to this thread than useful discussion

I'm in a similar boat to you rots, grew up in the metro area (oustide of NYC - though now I live inside it) and I've always been happy with it, especially as I'm going through the process of really putting down roots. But I totally understand that there are legitimate reasons that people also hate it, and lots of things about certain OOT communities that people just love. If you like where you live, you're already ahead of most people. Just sit back and enjoy it without worrying about what other people think of it, and whose is the best.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 10:02:14 AM
Sky, i must agree with you. It def goes both ways. But the only reason why i am able to come to this realization is two fold, one - bec i did seed for a few summers in Phoenix. It def opened my eyes to an OOT community and how there run. Two - i married someone from westchester. As in town or ny you wanna call it, its still considered in the jewish velt OOT. I do see it how Shlomo Zalman is so shallow bec he prob never got out. He grew up in a box called Flatbush and never realized theres life out of it. 

Though i must say, at mid 20's at the moment most of my friends who did grow up in Flatbush and the such have no interest in returning there to start families. That says a lot about the situation there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mek on July 02, 2013, 11:03:05 AM
Though i must say, at mid 20's at the moment most of my friends who did grow up in Flatbush and the such have no interest in returning there to start families. That says a lot about the situation there.

Do you have interest in returning to monsey? you are always welcome back here rots! Great schools and stuff like yzy....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 02, 2013, 11:06:23 AM
Do you have interest in returning to monsey? you are always welcome back here rots! Great schools and stuff like yzy....
whoa. Off air about HS. :). But yes. Gd willing it has potential. Like i have mentioned mr Staten Island boy, i am very happy with my upbringing.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mek on July 02, 2013, 08:29:35 PM
whoa. Off air about HS. :). But yes. Gd willing it has potential. Like i have mentioned mr Staten Island boy, i am very happy with my upbringing.

 :) so am I, so am I. Thats why I've moved back already  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: smart brit on July 02, 2013, 08:50:18 PM
At any rate, to clarify a few things.

-I don't care if people drive fancy cars.  If you can afford it then good on you!  But I don't want to hear from people with a fancy car about how they're broke but they feel like they need to keep up with the Schwartzes or whatever other reason they would rather drive a fancy car rather than pay full tuition or save for a down payment on owing a house. 

+1
Unreal! I'm just dealing with a tenant that drives a fancy car and does a lot of (so called) chesed and very eidel (what ever that means) but rent he ain't paying for the past 6 months and when i confronted him (after he ignored me deliberately) he comes up with that stinky disgusting NYC attitude that i have b"h never encountered before.
(I'm sorry for the rant) just trying to point out that although i live in nyc i don't think that the pro's of living here is any of the arguments he put forward.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 02, 2013, 09:40:14 PM
Unreal! I'm just dealing with a tenant that drives a fancy car and does a lot of (so called) chesed and very eidel (what ever that means) but rent he ain't paying for the past 6 months
Maybe you should consider evicting him :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 02, 2013, 09:42:16 PM
Did anyone write the pros and cons of any city in CT? I moved from Brooklyn to CT 2 months ago, and I'm very happy here. If anyone is interested I can share some pros and cons.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on July 02, 2013, 09:54:40 PM
Most NY'ers hate NY because of expensive rent and housing and no grass, other than that we're pretty much ok with it. We don't think its the greatest but its pretty good at the end of the day.

Well put.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: smart brit on July 02, 2013, 11:06:21 PM
Maybe you should consider evicting him :P
That's the hardest thing to do in nyc.
Ever been to the housing court madhouse?
(and he is a frum guy so......)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on July 03, 2013, 12:37:57 AM
Anyone considering East Boca Raton?
Affordable huge private homes with pools.
Wide selection of kosher food, kosher supermarket, kosher restaurants, etc.
Frum yeshivish shul with daily minyanim.
eastbocacommunity.com
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 03, 2013, 12:40:48 AM
Anyone considering East Boca Raton?
Affordable huge private homes with pools.
Wide selection of kosher food, kosher supermarket, kosher restaurants, etc.
Frum yeshivish shul with daily minyanim.
eastbocacommunity.com
How much is affordable?

The humidity is really what scares me off of Florida.
As a frum Jew there's only so many layers we can take off :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on July 03, 2013, 12:46:09 AM
As a frum Jew there's only so many layers we can take off :P
I guess you've never visited Miami or LA?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 03, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
I guess you've never visited Miami or LA?
From the scandals I'm hearing from there about involving "frum" couples rachamana litzlan... :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on July 03, 2013, 12:56:51 AM
From the scandals I'm hearing from there about involving "frum" couples rachamana litzlan... :P
Well there is a meshuganer there now, what do you expect. j/k.

I think every city has scandals. Just big cities like NY, LA, Miami are more in everyone's business so more people find out.


Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: robi on July 03, 2013, 01:03:01 AM
Did anyone write the pros and cons of any city in CT? I moved from Brooklyn to CT 2 months ago, and I'm very happy here. If anyone is interested I can share some pros and cons.
where in CT? A friend of mine is nagging me to join the kollel in Waterbury, but that doesn't look like it'll happen
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on July 03, 2013, 01:13:54 AM
$280k to $420k, depends on how many bedrooms, (from 3 to 5/6) and on on how many stories (1-2).
Its not more humid than NYCn and most people have private pools + there are plenty of empty and private beaches.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: aussiebochur on July 03, 2013, 01:43:24 AM
Its not more humid than NYC
It definitely feels that way...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 03, 2013, 01:45:32 AM
Its not more humid than NYCn and most people have private pools + there are plenty of empty and private beaches.
Not saying much, there's a reason NYC clears out in the summer.

But still I was in MIA in late September and it was too hot/humid to bear.  I don't think NYC is that bad that late in the year.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 03, 2013, 10:42:18 AM
Not saying much, there's a reason NYC clears out in the summer.

But still I was in MIA in late September and it was too hot/humid to bear.  I don't think NYC is that bad that late in the year.

You run a blog for a living, how much time do you spend outside (in your home city) anyway?  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on July 03, 2013, 12:01:27 PM
You run a blog for a living, how much time do you spend outside (in your home city) anyway?  ;D
you forget to take into account all those trips to office max and cvs :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 03, 2013, 12:13:01 PM
you forget to take into account all those trips to office max and cvs :)

I assume they have AC theirthere, as do cars. And remember, out of town they have parking at these places, so the walk from car to building is minimal.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on July 03, 2013, 12:16:16 PM
I assume they have AC theirthere, as do cars. And remember, out of town they have parking at these places, so the walk from car to building is minimal.
True, but a lot of people like spending time outdoors either to exercise or just walk for fun.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 03, 2013, 12:29:57 PM
True, but a lot of people like spending time outdoors either to exercise or just walk for fun.

Not when it's humid out  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shkop on July 03, 2013, 01:00:01 PM
You run a blog for a living, how much time do you spend outside (in your home city) anyway?  ;D

Ever heard of Shabbos?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eliteflyer on July 03, 2013, 09:30:16 PM
Did anyone write the pros and cons of any city in CT? I moved from Brooklyn to CT 2 months ago, and I'm very happy here. If anyone is interested I can share some pros and cons.
I'm interested in hearing about Jewish communities in CT in reasonable commuting distance for daily work in Midtown.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 03, 2013, 10:43:35 PM
I'm interested in hearing about Jewish communities in CT in reasonable commuting distance for daily work in Midtown.

What's considered reasonable?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eliteflyer on July 04, 2013, 12:47:06 AM
What's considered reasonable?
I'd entertain up to an hour by public transportation.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on July 04, 2013, 07:34:24 AM
I'd entertain up to an hour by public transportation.
Stamford/Greenwich is the only community that is within an hour. Bridgeport is another 15-20 min train ride.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 04, 2013, 09:58:57 AM
Stamford/Greenwich is the only community that is within an hour. Bridgeport is another 15-20 min train ride.
+1. Here, let Joe Lieberman convince you that Stamford is for you.  :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MoGro17 on July 08, 2013, 05:42:34 PM
I doubt you'll get many responses in this thread. Most people have not thought about this. There are four basic reasons people live where they do.
1.this is where they always lived and never gave any thought to where I want to live (how most decisions in life are made)
2. I would never leave Brooklyn-it's smelly, overcrowded, loud and there are no gas and trees.
3. My wife would never live outside of walking distance from her mother-it might force her to grow up.
4. This is where my job is

Hear hear to #3!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: smee123 on July 08, 2013, 06:22:00 PM
Hear hear to #3!
You gotta nip that in the bud  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 09, 2013, 05:00:41 AM
where in CT? A friend of mine is nagging me to join the kollel in Waterbury, but that doesn't look like it'll happen
I'm interested in hearing about Jewish communities in CT in reasonable commuting distance for daily work in Midtown.
I moved to New Haven it's about 1:45 to Midtown by train, although Stamford should be within the hour you're looking at more expensive housing.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 09, 2013, 05:24:57 AM
New Haven CT

Pros:
1) very affordable housing
2) Small but nice size Chabad community
3) 1:30 to NY by car without traffic
4) Good school for kids
5) No problem with parking
6) There are nice parks, beaches, outdoor activities for kids and adults etc.
7) Small city e.g. unlike NY where you have to wait 6 months to have ConEd install an electric meter it can be done here in days.
8)Kosher food accessible i.e. Chalav Yisroel milk and Pas Yisroel bread. It's nice for outside the big communities like NY.

Cons:
1) No Kosher restaurants
2) For those looking for other communities there's not much outside the Chabad community
3) There's only one school, so there aren't many choices
4) Crime rate is high in some areas, but that doesn't affect us much
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 09, 2013, 05:44:35 AM
New Haven CT

Pros:
1) very affordable housing
2) Small but nice size Chabad community
3) 1:30 to NY by car without traffic
4) Good school for kids
5) No problem with parking
6) There are nice parks, beaches, outdoor activities for kids and adults etc.
7) Small city e.g. unlike NY where you have to wait 6 months to have ConEd install an electric meter it can be done here in days.
8)Kosher food accessible i.e. Chalav Yisroel milk and Pas Yisroel bread. It's nice for outside the big communities like NY.

Cons:
1) No Kosher restaurants
2) For those looking for other communities there's not much outside the Chabad community
3) There's only one school, so there aren't many choices
4) Crime rate is high in some areas, but that doesn't affect us much
Where's new haven? Is it near Stanford or even past it going toward Waterbury?

Whats wrong with brauers? Doesn't the bus pick up from all over?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 09, 2013, 06:07:19 AM
Where's new haven? Is it near Stanford or even past it going toward Waterbury?

Whats wrong with brauers? Doesn't the bus pick up from all over?
It's a 45 minute drive northeast. Waterbury is further north. Where's Brauers taking you?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 09, 2013, 06:36:07 AM
It's a 45 minute drive northeast. Waterbury is further north. Where's Brauers taking you?
my wifes from harrison. she went to brauers, in Washington Heights.

what about kósh in stanford, or eden wok in new rochelle,
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on July 09, 2013, 07:59:49 AM
my wifes from harrison. she went to brauers, in Washington Heights.

what about kósh in stanford, or eden wok in new rochelle,
A little map orientation  (http://goo.gl/maps/3Djeu) for you. That wasn't so hard was it?
 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 09, 2013, 08:05:46 AM
my wifes from harrison. she went to brauers, in Washington Heights.

what about kósh in stanford, or eden wok in new rochelle,
Are you looking to move?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on July 09, 2013, 08:14:03 AM
A little map orientation  (http://goo.gl/maps/3Djeu) for you. That wasn't so hard was it?
 
i know where it was, i thought it was closer. i am not looking to move.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on July 09, 2013, 09:03:21 AM
New Haven CT

Pros:
1) very affordable housing
2) Small but nice size Chabad community
3) 1:30 to NY by car without traffic
4) Good school for kids
5) No problem with parking
6) There are nice parks, beaches, outdoor activities for kids and adults etc.
7) Small city e.g. unlike NY where you have to wait 6 months to have ConEd install an electric meter it can be done here in days.
8)Kosher food accessible i.e. Chalav Yisroel milk and Pas Yisroel bread. It's nice for outside the big communities like NY.

Cons:
1) No Kosher restaurants
2) For those looking for other communities there's not much outside the Chabad community
3) There's only one school, so there aren't many choices
4) Crime rate is high in some areas, but that doesn't affect us much
Spent a year there. Very close knit family environment, very nice people.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 09, 2013, 10:31:56 AM
New Haven CT

Pros:
3) 1:30 to NY by car without traffic

This plus a cringe-worthy 1:40+ train commute to GC (not to mention a whopping $436 monthly ticket) basically means it's not an option if you want to continue working in the city. It's not terrible from the perspective of being close enough to go in for a day of 'Jewish' shopping, so it's not a full 'Con', but it's probably not exactly a 'Pro' either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on July 09, 2013, 10:35:40 AM
This plus a cringe-worthy 1:40+ train commute to GC (not to mention a whopping $436 monthly ticket) basically means it's not an option if you want to continue working in the city. It's not terrible from the perspective of being close enough to go in for a day of 'Jewish' shopping, so it's not a full 'Con', but it's probably not exactly a 'Pro' either.
I actually considered that a pro. Close enough that you can come in whenever you want, far enough that you don't have to if you don't. >:D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on July 09, 2013, 02:11:25 PM
New Haven CT
3) There's only one school, so there aren't many choices
One school + another (or at least a fraction of another). As far as I remember they go prek though high school...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 09, 2013, 06:44:54 PM
This plus a cringe-worthy 1:40+ train commute to GC (not to mention a whopping $436 monthly ticket) basically means it's not an option if you want to continue working in the city. It's not terrible from the perspective of being close enough to go in for a day of 'Jewish' shopping, so it's not a full 'Con', but it's probably not exactly a 'Pro' either.
I actually considered that a pro. Close enough that you can come in whenever you want, far enough that you don't have to if you don't. >:D
You stole the words out of my mouth.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on July 09, 2013, 09:20:40 PM
You stole the words out of my mouth.
But admittedly a pain if you have to make the commute a few times a week.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 10, 2013, 08:47:51 PM
But admittedly a pain if you have to make the commute a few times a week.
Who needs to come in a few times a week. I barely come in once a month. It's a pro because if my sister has a boy it's a breeze to drive in an hour an half for a bris etc. If you don't work in the city why would you drive in so often? Most people in town commute far less than people in NYC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 10, 2013, 09:24:33 PM
Who needs to come in a few times a week. I barely come in once a month. It's a pro because if my sister has a boy it's a breeze to drive in an hour an half for a bris etc. If you don't work in the city why would you drive in so often? Most people in town commute far less than people in NYC.

And for the many, many people who have jobs that require them to be in the city every workday, it's a con. So just enjoy it and don't make the rest of us jealous ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on July 10, 2013, 09:54:55 PM
Who needs to come in a few times a week. I barely come in once a month. It's a pro because if my sister has a boy it's a breeze to drive in an hour an half for a bris etc. If you don't work in the city why would you drive in so often? Most people in town commute far less than people in NYC.
That.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: KollelDegree on July 17, 2013, 11:58:13 PM
New Haven CT

Pros:
1) very affordable housing
2) Small but nice size Chabad community
3) 1:30 to NY by car without traffic
4) Good school for kids
5) No problem with parking
6) There are nice parks, beaches, outdoor activities for kids and adults etc.
7) Small city e.g. unlike NY where you have to wait 6 months to have ConEd install an electric meter it can be done here in days.
8)Kosher food accessible i.e. Chalav Yisroel milk and Pas Yisroel bread. It's nice for outside the big communities like NY.

Cons:
1) No Kosher restaurants
2) For those looking for other communities there's not much outside the Chabad community
3) There's only one school, so there aren't many choices
4) Crime rate is high in some areas, but that doesn't affect us much

No Kosher restaurants? What happened to that Chinese place?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on July 21, 2013, 01:56:55 AM
No Kosher restaurants? What happened to that Chinese place?
Closed. They did open a pizza place in the JCC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on July 24, 2013, 04:40:32 AM
From 1:10
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-22-2013/chapter-9-mile?xrs=playershare_fb
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 24, 2013, 12:14:27 PM
From 1:10
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-22-2013/chapter-9-mile?xrs=playershare_fb
Amazing!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on July 24, 2013, 02:59:29 PM
From 1:10
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-22-2013/chapter-9-mile?xrs=playershare_fb

Thanks! 1/2 hour just disappeared somehow :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on July 24, 2013, 03:28:40 PM
Amazing!
Would be faster to call CPD :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on August 08, 2013, 12:09:00 PM
http://www.buzzfeed.com/zoetsiris/18-reasons-why-pittsburgh-is-the-greatest-city-on-d56b
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on August 08, 2013, 12:29:30 PM
http://www.buzzfeed.com/zoetsiris/18-reasons-why-pittsburgh-is-the-greatest-city-on-d56b

1. We have weird food.
2. We are almost as good as a fake school.
3. Again almost as good as a fake school.
4. Bridges because it is a damn pain to swim the polluted rivers, or climb the many hills. (real pain for walking around btw)
5. City gets shut down often so a Hollywood hotshot can use a cheap city as a set.
6. Did I mention we all talk like uneducated hicks?
7. We have the sourest and cockiest fans.
8. Ditto, but if you talk football on a Monday after a loss if it's not about the unfair refs, you better shut the hell up fast.
9. Ditto, and it's not Sid's fault he was brutally injured with a concussion, he'll do better next season. (There are concussions in hockey?)
10. Ditto, Oh ya longest losing season streak in the history of baseball, but we are dumb enough to keep supporting the owners.
11. We have Squirrels and are proud that not all wild life died from the pollution of the 60's.
12. We have neighborhoods and think that's unique, because other cities don't. HUH?
13. Well really they are OK and some you wouldn't walk around at night, but hey there is a book on them.
14. Houses are cheap and older than your great-grandparents, be ready to gut it and redo unless you like the deterioration and smell of old home.
15. ONE person ONE time when in our city, trying to please us and get us to watch his T.V. special said we are pretty great.
16. We hire people to Photoshop our city, because a regular picture would look like tragedy and despair.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: WhyAich on August 08, 2013, 12:45:30 PM

1. We have weird food.
2. We are almost as good as a fake school.
3. Again almost as good as a fake school.
4. Bridges because it is a damn pain to swim the polluted rivers, or climb the many hills. (real pain for walking around btw)
5. City gets shut down often so a Hollywood hotshot can use a cheap city as a set.
6. Did I mention we all talk like uneducated hicks?
7. We have the sourest and cockiest fans.
8. Ditto, but if you talk football on a Monday after a loss if it's not about the unfair refs, you better shut the hell up fast.
9. Ditto, and it's not Sid's fault he was brutally injured with a concussion, he'll do better next season. (There are concussions in hockey?)
10. Ditto, Oh ya longest losing season streak in the history of baseball, but we are dumb enough to keep supporting the owners.
11. We have Squirrels and are proud that not all wild life died from the pollution of the 60's.
12. We have neighborhoods and think that's unique, because other cities don't. HUH?
13. Well really they are OK and some you wouldn't walk around at night, but hey there is a book on them.
14. Houses are cheap and older than your great-grandparents, be ready to gut it and redo unless you like the deterioration and smell of old home.
15. ONE person ONE time when in our city, trying to please us and get us to watch his T.V. special said we are pretty great.
16. We hire people to Photoshop our city, because a regular picture would look like tragedy and despair.
LOL you are def. a good lawyer  :P

Truth be told, i thought Dan would answer this one, i guess he left it up to his lawyer  8)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on August 08, 2013, 01:27:09 PM

1. We have weird food.
2. We are almost as good as a fake school.
3. Again almost as good as a fake school.
4. Bridges because it is a damn pain to swim the polluted rivers, or climb the many hills. (real pain for walking around btw)
5. City gets shut down often so a Hollywood hotshot can use a cheap city as a set.
6. Did I mention we all talk like uneducated hicks?
7. We have the sourest and cockiest fans.
8. Ditto, but if you talk football on a Monday after a loss if it's not about the unfair refs, you better shut the hell up fast.
9. Ditto, and it's not Sid's fault he was brutally injured with a concussion, he'll do better next season. (There are concussions in hockey?)
10. Ditto, Oh ya longest losing season streak in the history of baseball, but we are dumb enough to keep supporting the owners.
11. We have Squirrels and are proud that not all wild life died from the pollution of the 60's.
12. We have neighborhoods and think that's unique, because other cities don't. HUH?
13. Well really they are OK and some you wouldn't walk around at night, but hey there is a book on them.
14. Houses are cheap and older than your great-grandparents, be ready to gut it and redo unless you like the deterioration and smell of old home.
15. ONE person ONE time when in our city, trying to please us and get us to watch his T.V. special said we are pretty great.
16. We hire people to Photoshop our city, because a regular picture would look like tragedy and despair.

+1 Hilarious!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 10, 2013, 03:35:10 PM
+1
I want to get out of NYC. Anybody know anything about Boca Raton?
We moved to Boca a couple weeks ago.
Thanks to yossi4k for helping out :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on September 10, 2013, 04:53:03 PM
We moved to Boca a couple weeks ago.
Thanks to yossi4k for helping out :)
Mazal Tov!
It should be with tremendous Hatzlacha!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 10, 2013, 04:59:36 PM
Mazal Tov!
It should be with tremendous Hatzlacha!
Amen. Thanks! :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on September 10, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
East or west?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on September 11, 2013, 01:33:37 AM
We moved to Boca a couple weeks ago.
Thanks to yossi4k for helping out :)
That's funny, I believe that I heard the news more than a couple of weeks ago...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:39:36 AM
East or west?
East- The Circle.
That's funny, I believe that I heard the news more than a couple of weeks ago...
We came down at the end of July and stayed at J and D's until our place was ready.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on September 11, 2013, 10:07:18 AM
Yagdil Torah?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Yagdil Torah?
More like Central :) BRS Area.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on September 11, 2013, 12:09:42 PM
as soon as the docs let my wife fly again, I'll be round the corner checking out coral springs
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 12:14:03 PM
I don't know how you guys put up with the summer heat.
I was in FLL 2 weeks ago and could barely move outside it was so hot.  Tried putting on sunglasses but the humidity is so high that they just fogged up instantly.  And nighttime gives no reprieve.

Though I'm sure FL people think the same of people living in the winter up north.  Though I'd answer at least I can get an awesome down coat for walking around outside and be toasty but as frum jews we can't just walk around half naked in the summer...whereas the summers in CLE are just so nice.

I can definitely see myself being a snowbird one day though.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on September 11, 2013, 12:17:45 PM
I don't know how you guys put up with the summer heat.
I was in FLL 2 weeks ago and could barely move outside it was so hot.  Tried putting on sunglasses but the humidity is so high that they just fogged up instantly.  And nighttime gives no reprieve.

Though I'm sure FL people think the same of people living in the winter up north.  Though I'd answer at least I can get an awesome down coat for walking around outside and be toasty but as frum jews we can't just walk around half naked in the summer...whereas the summers in CLE are just so nice.

I can definitely see myself being a snowbird one day though.
it's that 0% state income tax that really helps...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 11, 2013, 12:22:19 PM
And it's close to the water. CLE etc. isn't. Matters for some.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on September 11, 2013, 12:24:54 PM
And it's close to the water. CLE etc. isn't. Matters for some.

Lake Erie helps.
Plus there's no sharks. Also, helpful. :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 12:26:22 PM
And it's close to the water. CLE etc. isn't. Matters for some.
News to me.
https://local.google.com/maps?q=cleveland&hl=en&ll=41.658549,-81.732788&spn=1.10809,2.732849&sll=40.365277,-82.669252&sspn=4.520052,10.931396&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&t=m&z=9
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
it's that 0% state income tax that really helps...
True true.
But don't they make up for that elsewhere?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: aussiebochur on September 11, 2013, 12:35:30 PM
True true.
But don't they make up for that elsewhere?
Property tax?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 12:46:37 PM
And it's close to the water. CLE etc. isn't. Matters for some.
BTW Cedar Point is on a great beach in Sandusky with awesome offshore islands to go to.  And there's a massive Sandusky indoor waterpark resort (http://www.groupon.com/deals/ga-kalahari-resorts-1) on groupon now. Largest in the country.
#2MonthsLeft ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on September 11, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
I don't know what I hate more, humidity or freezing and snow. I won't be happy weather-wise anywhere other then California but my wife is 100% against it and it's probably the only place more expensive then NY...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on September 11, 2013, 12:53:33 PM
I don't know how you guys put up with the summer heat.
I was in FLL 2 weeks ago and could barely move outside it was so hot.  Tried putting on sunglasses but the humidity is so high that they just fogged up instantly.  And nighttime gives no reprieve.

Though I'm sure FL people think the same of people living in the winter up north.  Though I'd answer at least I can get an awesome down coat for walking around outside and be toasty but as frum jews we can't just walk around half naked in the summer...whereas the summers in CLE are just so nice.

I can definitely see myself being a snowbird one day though.
You're aware I'm barely 10% of your size?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:04:18 PM
I won't be happy weather-wise anywhere other then California
Bingo.  Such good weather.
And such bad traffic, taxes, housing prices, cost of living, pollution, and general pritzus everywhere you look.

I don't know what I hate more, humidity or freezing and snow.
Tough call. 
NYC/PHL have very hot humid summers so less of a tough call there.
But CLE/PIT/etc have nice mild summers with very pleasent weather.  To trade that for a steambath would be hard.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:04:35 PM
You're aware I'm barely 10% of your size?
Huh?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:12:49 PM
as soon as the docs let my wife fly again, I'll be round the corner checking out coral springs
Let me know when you come.
I don't know how you guys put up with the summer heat.
I was in FLL 2 weeks ago and could barely move outside it was so hot.  Tried putting on sunglasses but the humidity is so high that they just fogged up instantly.  And nighttime gives no reprieve.

Though I'm sure FL people think the same of people living in the winter up north.  Though I'd answer at least I can get an awesome down coat for walking around outside and be toasty but as frum jews we can't just walk around half naked in the summer...whereas the summers in CLE are just so nice.

I can definitely see myself being a snowbird one day though.
IMHO, it's bad but not unbearably so. It's maybe a bit hotter than a hot day in NYC in August, but it lasts for a few months. I stopped wearing glasses outside because of the fog :D
All other things equal, I think 4 months of brutal heat are better than 4 months of brutal cold. And no SAD (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/seasonal-affective-disorder/DS00195).
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:16:41 PM
True true.
But don't they make up for that elsewhere?
High property tax rates but no higher than NY/NJ/CT.
Overall, FL has the fifth lowest tax burden in the country. http://www.stateofflorida.com/Portal/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=29 (http://www.stateofflorida.com/Portal/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=29)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:18:06 PM
IMHO, it's bad but not unbearably so. It's maybe a bit hotter than a hot day in NYC in August, but it lasts for a few months.
That's unbearable in my book :'(

I stopped wearing glasses outside because of the fog :D
Really bad idea for your long-term eye health.

All other things equal, I think 4 months of brutal heat are better than 4 months of brutal cold.
It's an interesting debate, definitely hear both sides.  If we could walk around town in beachwear it would be less of a debate, but that's not an option for us.  But a toasty knee length LL Bean coat and a paid of cozy uggs and winter's bite isn't all that bad.   The problem most people have is they don't dress warm enough.  Though that's easier in a place where everyone drives and there's ample parking near everything.

As I said, I'd love to be a snowbird.  Just doesn't really work with kids.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:20:44 PM
High property tax rates but no higher than NY/NJ/CT.
Overall, FL has the fifth lowest tax burden in the country. http://www.stateofflorida.com/Portal/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=29 (http://www.stateofflorida.com/Portal/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=29)
"Property taxes in Florida are some of the highest in the country"
How much are they for an average home?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on September 11, 2013, 01:21:36 PM
Huh?
Much easier to tolerate heat.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:23:04 PM
Much easier to tolerate heat.
You weigh 19.5 pounds?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on September 11, 2013, 01:25:43 PM
Whenever I walk around in the heat and humidity of NY I think: this is unlivable, bring me winter. Winter comes around and I'm praying for the sun. It's true that you can dress warm but you have to add 10 minuted of bundling up everywhere you go (especially with kids). Florida weather is supposedly amazing for 7-8 months a year, is there anyone here that can back up or dispute?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:27:46 PM
Really bad idea for your long-term eye health.
That's why I wear my contacts instead  ::)
It's an interesting debate, definitely hear both sides.  If we could walk around town in beachwear it would be less of a debate, but that's not an option for us.  But a toasty knee length LL Bean coat and a paid of cozy uggs and winter's bite isn't all that bad.   The problem most people have is they don't dress warm enough.  Though that's easier in a place where everyone drives and there's ample parking near everything.

As I said, I'd love to be a snowbird.  Just doesn't really work with kids.
T/Polo shirt + linen or cotton pants/shorts works pretty well. Do you consider that beachwear?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 11, 2013, 01:27:53 PM
News to me.
https://local.google.com/maps?q=cleveland&hl=en&ll=41.658549,-81.732788&spn=1.10809,2.732849&sll=40.365277,-82.669252&sspn=4.520052,10.931396&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&t=m&z=9

I meant salt water... ya know, real water. With waves :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 11, 2013, 01:28:54 PM
BTW Cedar Point is on a great beach in Sandusky with awesome offshore islands to go to.  And there's a massive Sandusky indoor waterpark resort (http://www.groupon.com/deals/ga-kalahari-resorts-1) on groupon now. Largest in the country.
#2MonthsLeft ;)

Let me confer with the boss. And no, I don't mean the person who signs the paychecks  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:29:20 PM
Whenever I walk around in the heat and humidity of NY I think: this is unlivable, bring me winter. Winter comes around and I'm praying for the sun. It's true that you can dress warm but you have to add 10 minuted of bundling up everywhere you go (especially with kids). Florida weather is supposedly amazing for 7-8 months a year, is there anyone here that can back up or dispute?
There are other places besides FL and NY...
NY has brutal summers and winters.  There are plenty of places that are very pleasant for half of the year.

We were in MIA in late September and it was still miserable. My wife, who is half my size, didn't want to be outdoors at all due to the oppressive heat and humidity.  So I don't think it's possible that 8 months are all that great...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:30:34 PM
That's why I wear my contacts instead  ::)
Talking about sunglasses.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:31:00 PM
I meant salt water... ya know, real water. With waves :)
Got news for ya. There are waves. People even come here to surf!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 11, 2013, 01:31:46 PM
That IS news... who woulda think you could surf... on a lake!  :o
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:31:51 PM
Let me confer with the boss. And no, I don't mean the person who signs the paychecks  ;D
You can make a nice mini-trip out of it.  Find a nice cruise to check out the islands, really cool places to see.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 11, 2013, 01:34:19 PM
So, NY is brutal in both seasons, MIA is brutal in summer, CLE is brutal in winter...

MIA has low taxes, NJ has high taxes, and CLE is somewhere in the middle?

NYC has great access to international flights, MIA less so, and CLE even less than that.

TX has no state income tax, but has hot summers, MEM has cheap homes but is humid in summer and lacks good flight options, while ATL is somewhere in the middle.

Can we create a top 5 list or something? I need to start thinking about this stuff. I refuse to pay $1MM+ for a nice house.

... but I also want good weather... and low taxes... and good access to flights ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:34:56 PM
"Property taxes in Florida are some of the highest in the country"
How much are they for an average home?
According to this (http://www.bcpa.net/taxcalc.asp) calculator, taxes on a $250,000 home would be 4,811 or 1.925%
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on September 11, 2013, 01:35:22 PM
There are other places besides FL and NY...
NY has brutal summers and winters.  There are plenty of places that are very pleasant for half of the year.

We were in MIA in late September and it was still miserable. My wife, who is half my size, didn't want to be outdoors at all due to the oppressive heat and humidity.  So I don't think it's possible that 8 months are all that great...
Definitely not eight months.  Succos in BR I'm told is brutal.  Probably closer to six
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 11, 2013, 01:36:38 PM
You can make a nice mini-trip out of it.  Find a nice cruise to check out the islands, really cool places to see.

Assuming we crash your party for shabbas, how many days would you recommend?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:37:29 PM
So, NY is brutal in both seasons, MIA is brutal in summer, CLE is brutal in winter...

MIA has low taxes, NJ has high taxes, and CLE is somewhere in the middle?

NYC has great access to international flights, MIA less so, and CLE even less than that.

Can we create a top 5 list or something? I need to start thinking about this stuff. I refuse to pay $1MM+ for a nice house.
Sounds about right.  Though CLE has a great little UA hub, CAK has a nice FL/WN hub.
Beachwood, at 90% jewish, is the safest jewish community you'll find just about anywhere in the world.

And for half a mill you can have a killer house in Beachwood.  $250K buys a very nice one.
For $750K a freakin' mansion with elavator and more bedrooms and bathrooms than you can possibly know what to do with.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:38:11 PM
According to this (http://www.bcpa.net/taxcalc.asp) calculator, taxes on a $250,000 home would be 4,811 or 1.925%
Sounds very reasonable, how can that be highest in the country??
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on September 11, 2013, 01:49:20 PM
We came down at the end of July and stayed at J and D's until our place was ready.
Lucky you...
Definitely not eight months.  Succos in BR I'm told is brutal.  Probably closer to six
Or maybe not...
According to this (http://www.bcpa.net/taxcalc.asp) calculator, taxes on a $250,000 home would be 4,811 or 1.925%
Is the calculator accurate, besides for the home in the example being $225k and certain fees not included? Meaning are these real numbers that can be confirmed/ is avg price of house around $225k??
Sounds very reasonable, how can that be highest in the country??
Maybe it's the undisclosed fees...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: meshugener on September 11, 2013, 01:50:02 PM
You weigh 19.5 pounds?
my brain included
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:50:20 PM
Definitely not eight months.  Succos in BR I'm told is brutal.  Probably closer to six
June, July, and August are the worst, May and September are bad, and the rest of the year is gorgeous.
Sounds very reasonable, how can that be highest in the country??
I have no idea. Still in the renting stage.
Sounds about right.  Though CLE has a great little UA hub, CAK has a nice FL/WN hub.
Beachwood, at 90% jewish, is the safest jewish community you'll find just about anywhere in the world.

And for half a mill you can have a killer house in Beachwood.  $250K buys a very nice one.
For $750K a freakin' mansion with elavator and more bedrooms and bathrooms than you can possibly know what to do with.
Being 30 min away from FLL + PBI and 50 min from MIA isn't too bad either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on September 11, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
Quote from: Dan on Today at 01:23:04 pm

    You weigh 19.5 pounds?
my brain included
he's only 2 dimensional...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:52:52 PM
Is the calculator accurate, besides for the home in the example being $225k and certain fees not included? Meaning are these real numbers that can be confirmed/ is avg price of house around $225k??Maybe it's the undisclosed fees...
It's the Broward County official site...
The house in the example is $250,000. There is a $25,000 homestead exemption for all houses bringing the taxable value down to $225,000.
ETA: 1,000th post :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 01:54:09 PM
Being 30 min away from FLL + PBI and 50 min from MIA isn't too bad either.
Great for AA/Avios, not great if you're a UA guy and like upgrades (which are easy as pie from CLE).
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on September 11, 2013, 01:54:19 PM
Lucky you...Or maybe not...Is the calculator accurate, besides for the home in the example being $225k and certain fees not included? Meaning are these real numbers that can be confirmed/ is avg price of house around $225k??Maybe it's the undisclosed fees...
Friend just bought in Hollywood.  400k for something decent,  not huge,  not luxurious
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on September 11, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
In my Shtetl, if a house was worth $250k taxes would be around $8800, after exemptions and fees... Of course if your house is worth 2.5 times the avg house then at least you'd be living in something huge or luxurious...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 11, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Great for AA/Avios, not great if you're a UA guy and like upgrades (which are easy as pie from CLE).
Even better for FL/WN + Companion Pass. FL has 2-3 nonstop's a day from FLL to PHL and increasing service to EWR in October.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on September 11, 2013, 01:59:31 PM
According to this (http://www.bcpa.net/taxcalc.asp) calculator, taxes on a $250,000 home would be 4,811 or 1.925%
Taxes in yyz are about that for a house triple the price
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 02:15:46 PM
In my Shtetl, if a house was worth $250k taxes would be around $8800, after exemptions and fees... Of course if your house is worth 2.5 times the avg house then at least you'd be living in something huge or luxurious...
Wow, you really gotta move a few miles east...half that price and lower income tax to boot.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on September 11, 2013, 04:14:41 PM
Wow, you really gotta move a few miles east...half that price and lower income tax to boot.
The kashya is stronger on the ppl moving to UH over Beachwood more than Cleve Heights, at least here the house prices are cheaper and therefore my personal taxes are in the low 4's/year while others luck out with their house evaluating at 80k so their taxes are closer to $3000... UH and Beachwood share shuls and stores and Beachwood has almost every advantage in the book...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 04:16:29 PM
The kashya is stronger on the ppl moving to UH over Beachwood more than Cleve Heights, at least here the house prices are cheaper and therefore my personal taxes are in the low 4's/year while others luck out with their house evaluating at 80k so their taxes are closer to $3000... UH and Beachwood share shuls and stores and Beachwood has almost every advantage in the book...
True that. They're short-sighted IMO.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on September 11, 2013, 04:19:04 PM
True that. They're short-sighted IMO.
Isn't the average house in UH $100k cheaper?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 04:33:07 PM
Isn't the average house in UH $100k cheaper?
It's hard to really compare prices as the houses are comparable. The average UH house is typically much smaller and older often with detached garages. Plus they're harder to sell.  And the newer houses there have humongous tax bills.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on September 11, 2013, 05:20:37 PM
It's hard to really compare prices as the houses are comparable. The average UH house is typically much smaller and older often with detached garages. Plus they're harder to sell.  And the newer houses there have humongous tax bills.
For some people 100k, even over an x year mortgage isn't chump change, especially when it's 66% of the purchase price. People are willing to live in a slightly smaller, yet still very comfortable sized house and have a 50% lower monthly mortgage payment. I don't get the CHers who are paying 20-40k less to live there
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 11, 2013, 05:23:07 PM
For some people 100k, even over an x year mortgage isn't chump change, especially when it's 66% of the purchase price. People are willing to live in a slightly smaller, yet still very comfortable sized house and have a 50% lower monthly mortgage payment. I don't get the CHers who are paying 20-40k less to live there
There isn't a 100K difference in a comparable house.  A 150K UH house is probably 190K in Beachwood.
And taxes negate most of the rest.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on September 11, 2013, 05:37:24 PM
There isn't a 100K difference in a comparable house.  A 150K UH house is probably 190K in Beachwood.
And taxes negate most of the rest.
OK, you've convinced me
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on September 12, 2013, 01:21:57 AM
It's hard to really compare prices as the houses are comparable. The average UH house is typically much smaller and older often with detached garages. Plus they're harder to sell.  And the newer houses there have humongous tax bills.
Ppl also pay way more to rent in Beachwood so they can go to Beachwood public schools (and have b-day parties at Beachwood pool for a few bucks). I don't see how it would be almost a no brainer to rent out house for $1.9k/month instead of selling...
For some people 100k, even over an x year mortgage isn't chump change, especially when it's 66% of the purchase price. People are willing to live in a slightly smaller, yet still very comfortable sized house and have a 50% lower monthly mortgage payment. I don't get the CHers who are paying 20-40k less to live there
If mortgage is 50% lower but taxes are 50% higher the payment may be a few pesos less, but the house is worth $100k less!!!
Side note... CH gets better as the B___ streets end once you get to the S___ streets...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on September 12, 2013, 01:52:49 AM
Awesome blog post about driving in NYC:
http://mapantsonfire.blogspot.com/2013/09/about-drivers.html (http://mapantsonfire.blogspot.com/2013/09/about-drivers.html)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on September 12, 2013, 10:12:20 PM
There isn't a 100K difference in a comparable house.  A 150K UH house is probably 190K in Beachwood.
And taxes negate most of the rest.
I agree that buying in UH may be shortsighted but I definitely disagree with this assessment.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on September 12, 2013, 10:19:01 PM
Awesome blog post about driving in NYC:
http://mapantsonfire.blogspot.com/2013/09/about-drivers.html (http://mapantsonfire.blogspot.com/2013/09/about-drivers.html)
Great!
Last big paragraph was the best. Also worth reading the Type C Drivers. All true!  :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on September 12, 2013, 10:29:18 PM
Lol +1
I think all nyers have truly experienced s/t similar to wats described.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 12, 2013, 11:02:33 PM
I agree that buying in UH may be shortsighted but I definitely disagree with this assessment.
Like I said, it's tough to find real comparables.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 04, 2013, 03:52:20 PM
Where would someone start looking if he is thinking of moving to CLE?

In terms of house (and job) hunting? Someone told me a while back that detached homes there could be found for about $100k. Is that still true?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 03:59:45 PM
Where would someone start looking if he is thinking of moving to CLE?

In terms of house (and job) hunting? Someone told me a while back that detached homes there could be found for about $100k. Is that still true?

Prices are definitely on the uptick.  Really depends on where you want to live.

Cleveland Heights has the cheapest housing and the most yeshivish community.  But it's older and less safe.  And taxes are high.

University Heights has cheap housing and shares shuls with Beachwood.  There are 4 massive shuls all next door to each other along with several other small options. 

UH has high taxes and poor services though lots of house bargains. 
Beachwood houses are pricier though property and income taxes are lower and services are top-notch.  By services I mean ambulance/fire/police response is under 60 seconds.  Beachwood plows your sidewalk free of charge.  Beachwood has is on-demand garbage pickup besides for the weekly pickup.  And there are no point of sale housing inspections unlike the mamzeirim in CH/UH.

Beachwood houses are also easier to rent/sell in the future as the school system is one of the best in the state versus UH having one of the worst.

But if you want something for $100K you'll probably have to settle on CH/UH.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 04, 2013, 04:15:47 PM
Wow. Thanks for all this helpful info.

What can I expect to pay for a house in Beachwood? Roughly..

And are there homes available? Are there homes available for rent?

Also any idea how healthy the job market is?

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on October 04, 2013, 04:15:51 PM
What are you paying in Beachwood for a 4BR/3BA?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 04:18:18 PM
Beachwood:
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/days_sort/41.503258,-81.489737,41.484518,-81.522138_rect/14_zm/_fm/d687d524f2X1-CR1rtgpzntoqi7h_15frhy_crid/

UH: http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/days_sort/41.503001,-81.503642,41.484261,-81.536043_rect/14_zm/_fm/d687f524f2X1-CR1rti3vlqfgckt_15frhy_crid/

CH: http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/pmf,pf_pt/days_sort/41.519069,-81.532996,41.500334,-81.565397_rect/14_zm/_fm/d6882524f2X1-CR1rti3vlqfhub1_15frhy_crid/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 04:19:21 PM
What are you paying in Beachwood for a 4BR/3BA?
175-350.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 04:20:19 PM
What can I expect to pay for a house in Beachwood? Roughly..

And are there homes available? Are there homes available for rent?

Also any idea how healthy the job market is?
What size house?

Yes, yes.

In what field?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on October 04, 2013, 04:25:06 PM
175-350.

Nice house for that $300?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 04:27:25 PM
Nice house for that $300?
Yes.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 04, 2013, 05:13:53 PM
What size house?

Yes, yes.

In what field?

I guess 3BR preferably detached with a garage.

IT & PT

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 04, 2013, 05:15:28 PM
I guess 3BR preferably detached with a garage.



Oh and preferably a ranch style.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 05:23:41 PM
I guess 3BR preferably detached with a garage.

IT & PT
All houses here are single family detached.

Probably 90K CH, 125K UH, 180K Beachwood.  Beachwood lot sizes are generally bigger/newer and more likely to have an attached garage.



As far as jobs I know plenty that have moved here for that.  There are some frum organizations that help with that and there's always the online job sites.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 04, 2013, 05:43:51 PM
All houses here are single family detached.

Probably 90K CH, 125K UH, 180K Beachwood.  Beachwood lot sizes are generally bigger/newer and more likely to have an attached garage.



As far as jobs I know plenty that have moved here for that.  There are some frum organizations that help with that and there's always the online job sites.

Wow. What a huge difference between CH and beachwood!

I actually prefer the older houses. They have more personality.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 04, 2013, 05:58:33 PM
CH is 50% black and 50% white.  And they have some really nasty cops.

Beachwood is 90% Jewish-the highest percentage of Jews for any city in the diaspora.  And the cops are fantastic.

Pick your poison.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 05, 2013, 09:45:03 PM
Don't you find the median salary to be commensurate with the cost of living? I've always assumed lower home values = lower average salary
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 05, 2013, 09:53:36 PM
Lower probably. Commensurate not at all. Life is quite inexpensive here and people don't live to impress others.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 05, 2013, 09:55:42 PM
Don't you find the median salary to be commensurate with the cost of living? I've always assumed lower home values = lower average salary
In general yes, but all you have to do to beat that system is be an exception.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 05, 2013, 10:11:34 PM
Lower probably. Commensurate not at all. Life is quite inexpensive here and people don't live to impress others.

Except when it comes to shopping. You guys have probably the nicest malls ever.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 28, 2013, 11:47:58 PM
Prices are definitely on the uptick.  Really depends on where you want to live.
"Median price for 2013 sales are:
-up 17 percent in Beachwood to $250,000
-up 12 percent in Cleveland Heights to $77,500
-up 14 percent in University Heights to $130,000
-down 25 in East Cleveland to $8,000 :D
http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2013/10/home_prices_up_in_beachwood_cl.html
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: daganster on October 29, 2013, 10:44:23 PM
"Median price for 2013 sales are:
-up 17 percent in Beachwood to $250,000
-up 12 percent in Cleveland Heights to $77,500
-up 14 percent in University Heights to $130,000
-down 25 in East Cleveland to $8,000 :D
http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/index.ssf/2013/10/home_prices_up_in_beachwood_cl.html
$8k for house? Wow that's cheap. Maybe we can start a Jewish community there even if the houses triple to $24k it'll still be affordable :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 29, 2013, 10:46:27 PM
$8k for house? Wow that's cheap. Maybe we can start a Jewish community there even if the houses triple to $24k it'll still be affordable :D
Lol, back in the day there were tens of thousands of Jews there. 
Now not one. For good reason.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 29, 2013, 10:53:46 PM
$8k for house? Wow that's cheap. Maybe we can start a Jewish community there even if the houses triple to $24k it'll still be affordable :D
This isn't Lakewood so that wouldn't work here... Ppl can move a block and a half away from community with Shuls schools and kosher store within a five minute walk and still be alone for a few years before someone joins them.
Besides, it's possible to get a house in Cleve Heights for $8k, but you get what you pay for, and may as well buy in Beachwood where you'd get a newer, bigger, nicer house (as was discussed before somewhere on DDF) with better neighbors and mort + taxes should be in the $1200/month range...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:15:13 AM
mort + taxes should be in the $1200/month range...
Heh thats the cheap end of the range for a one bedroom apt rental here!!!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Bostener on October 30, 2013, 12:15:51 AM
How much is rent in Beachwood?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 30, 2013, 12:18:17 AM
Heh thats the cheap end of the range for a one bedroom apt rental here!!!
Multiply that by 10 times the space, subtract crime and tickets, divide the cost of living by 2, add parking lots, subtract restaurant options, add better summer weather but worse winter weather, add lots of greenery, and you have a house in Beachwood.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:22:11 AM
Multiply that by 10 times the space, subtract crime and tickets, divide the cost of living by 2, add parking lots, subtract restaurant options, add better summer weather but worse winter weather, add lots of greenery, and you have a house in Beachwood.
Whats a teachers salary?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:24:05 AM
Multiply that by 10 times the space, subtract crime and tickets, divide the cost of living by 2, add parking lots, subtract restaurant options, add better summer weather but worse winter weather, add lots of greenery, and you have a house in Beachwood.
Also bli ayin hara, have not gotten a ticket in months. B"h plenty parking where i live. Good view, (you don't have the Verrazano bridge framed in your window) and plenty of trees by me too.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 30, 2013, 12:25:46 AM
Whats a teachers salary?
No idea. There are 3 frum schools in town.

Also bli ayin hara, have not gotten a ticket in months. B"h plenty parking where i live. Good view, (you don't have the Verrazano bridge framed in your window) and plenty of trees by me too.
You have a real front/backyard in Brooklyn?
And the stores you go to all have large parking lots?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on October 30, 2013, 12:27:34 AM
Good view, (you don't have the Verrazano bridge framed in your window).
+1 one of the things I miss most about Brooklyn is the view from my roof at sunset. Simply stunning.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:31:49 AM
No idea. There are 3 frum schools in town.

You have a real front/backyard in Brooklyn?
And the stores you go to all have large parking lots?
Doesn't have to be frum. Could google this, public school teachr, starting salary, benefits, salary after twenty yrs and pension.
actually yes, but i don't use it much. (Shared w others...)
I can actually walk to the stores in Brooklyn  :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 30, 2013, 12:35:05 AM
Heh thats the cheap end of the range for a one bedroom apt rental here!!!
Been there - done that...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:39:26 AM
This site is actually pretty impressive.
http://www.tos.ohio.gov/Transparency_Teacher.aspx
Anyways, nice top salary, but you get more in NYC (not double but more...) dunno wat pension and benefits are like.

Overall nice, but still like Brooklyn. When it clicks and doesn't go wrong, its nice to be w so many other yidden. Feels good.

(And ch"v lehepech...)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 30, 2013, 12:39:44 AM
Doesn't have to be frum. Could google this, public school teachr, starting salary, benefits, salary after twenty yrs and pension.
actually yes, but i don't use it much. (Shared w others...)
I can actually walk to the stores in Brooklyn  :P
From 2011: http://beachwood.patch.com/groups/editors-picks/p/beachwood-teacher-pay-is-third-highest-in-ohio

You may be able to walk, but when driving isn't such a pain it's a whole lot easier not having to shlep ;)
And there's something to be said for having your owned fenced in back yard.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 30, 2013, 12:40:50 AM
its nice to be w so many other yidden.
Lol, no shortage, there's 80-100K here.
In fact the city of Beachwood has the highest percentage of Jews in the country.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on October 30, 2013, 12:41:48 AM
(not double but more...)
Cost of living for a frum Jew is probably under half that of LA or NYC.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:49:34 AM
From 2011: http://beachwood.patch.com/groups/editors-picks/p/beachwood-teacher-pay-is-third-highest-in-ohio

You may be able to walk, but when driving isn't such a pain it's a whole lot easier not having to shlep ;)
And there's something to be said for having your owned fenced in back yard.
Picked my link bec its more recent w numbers in front of you an gov resource.(more trustworthy. Taking a course on research plz forgive my stickling here...)
Not a schlep generally, when i do need to get alot of things not difficult to park there. (Groceries have parking lots as well.) More difficult to get there bec of traffic, (that makes the summers so nice) but i've noticed that OOT as well. (Atl)
And the point was I could walk if i want to. All spring and fall its a mechayeh to walk to yeshiva. (And those cooler summer and nice winter days are awesome)

Ps typing w an ipad so @AJK plz excuse typos :P  :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Bostener on October 30, 2013, 12:54:30 AM
Cost of living for a frum Jew is probably under half that of LA or NYC.

How much is tuition  compared to NYC?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:56:55 AM
And then as a sports fan there is no competition :P
Wih the exception of a few yrs w LeBron, and a season here and there w the Indians, what has there been to cheer for? (I guess getting cheap tix is cool, I would know as a Mets fan. Not cheap now even tho they are bad, but they used to be...)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 12:57:13 AM
How much is tuition  compared to NYC?
For yeshiva?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 30, 2013, 12:57:22 AM
How much is rent in Beachwood?
A lot (in comparison to buying) since Beachwood has a great public school system, so parents will pay extra to rent there... The advantage of Beachwood is when you own the taxes are relatively low. Renting in UH (same shuls as Beachwood, just across Green Rd.) is more reasonable AFAIK $1200/month for a house...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 30, 2013, 01:01:16 AM
How much is tuition  compared to NYC?
YTWV (your tuition will vary)
If you (in general) have kindergartener and/or younger and semi low income, you may be in luck... http://www.localjewishnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FAQ-Income-Based-EdChoice-voucher.pdf
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 30, 2013, 01:04:28 AM
And then as a sports fan there is no competition :P
Wih the exception of a few yrs w LeBron, and a season here and there w the Indians, what has there been to cheer for? (I guess getting cheap tix is cool, I would know as a Mets fan. Not cheap now even tho they are bad, but they used to be...)
Can always get mlbtv and go to games when NY teams come to Cleveland. Most NYers (or anyone else) don't change their teams when they move, so you can always root against/neutral to the Cleveland teams...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 01:13:34 AM
Can always get mlbtv and go to games when NY teams come to Cleveland. Most NYers (or anyone else) don't change their teams when they move, so you can always root against/neutral to the Cleveland teams...
True, my comment was aimed at someone like Dan who goes for Cle teams.
Btw Dan u a football fan but can't watch the browns? Or just don't care for it?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 01:14:54 AM
No idea. There are 3 frum schools in town.
BTW Was just thinking, I have three on one block lol
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on October 30, 2013, 01:20:00 AM
BTW Was just thinking, I have three on one block lol
And would you send kids to one of them?
With the shuls in Bklyn, most ppl AFAIK pass 3-5 shuls on the way to shul too...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on October 30, 2013, 01:23:14 AM
Ya, i went there. Happen to like the place.
Used to live around the corner from my shul. Got married and live ten min away (walking  :P) still go there bec i am very close w my rav. But if I don't wanna walk then i go down the block.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 30, 2013, 11:11:00 AM
This site is actually pretty impressive.
http://www.tos.ohio.gov/Transparency_Teacher.aspx
Anyways, nice top salary, but you get more in NYC (not double but more...) dunno wat pension and benefits are like.

Overall nice, but still like Brooklyn. When it clicks and doesn't go wrong, its nice to be w so many other yidden. Feels good.

(And ch"v lehepech...)
Just FYI, NY has a similar site (link (http://seethroughny.net/)), although I don't find it to be particularly accurate.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on November 23, 2013, 10:01:29 PM
For Dan:

http://newyorksmash.com/ranking-of-the-salaries-needed-to-buy-a-home-in-25-cities/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on November 23, 2013, 10:04:10 PM
For Dan:

http://newyorksmash.com/ranking-of-the-salaries-needed-to-buy-a-home-in-25-cities/
No info on what the average house is but cool nonetheless.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on November 23, 2013, 10:18:22 PM
For Dan:

http://newyorksmash.com/ranking-of-the-salaries-needed-to-buy-a-home-in-25-cities/
Can confirm this to be true... Now, usually houses directly in the frum community are more expensive. There are still many houses that go for under 100k...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yitzf on November 23, 2013, 11:46:58 PM
East coasters get the after Shabbos deals an hour earlier that CLE, could come in handy on a week like this.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 23, 2013, 11:48:06 PM
East coasters get the after Shabbos deals an hour earlier that CLE, could come in handy on a week like this.
except they also are in the eastern time zone ::)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yitzf on November 23, 2013, 11:49:53 PM
except they also are in the eastern time zone ::)
My bad, I thought that's why Dan tweeted the deal an hour after shabbos.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on November 24, 2013, 12:19:44 AM
except they also are in the eastern time zone ::)
but further to the east so Shabbos still ends ~30 min earlier on the east coast
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 24, 2013, 01:12:57 AM
but further to the east so Shabbos still ends ~30 min earlier on the east coast
+1 30 min. +mariv+ get home+havdala=1 hour.

@AJK how is that list "complete"? What's complete about it?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on November 24, 2013, 01:14:27 AM
I'm sorry, you must have assumed that since I posted it, I wrote it...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 24, 2013, 01:16:30 AM
I'm sorry, you must have assumed that since I posted it, I wrote it...
No need to be sorry. You will know to explain that next time.

Sheesh the noobs around this place.

 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2013, 01:18:58 AM
East coasters get the after Shabbos deals an hour earlier that CLE, could come in handy on a week like this.
OTOH we'll have an extra 30 minutes of BF deals online next neek and an extra 30 minutes on all those short shabbosim ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2013, 11:54:13 PM
With all due respect, that is total rubbish, utter nonsense, and blatantly false.
Sorry to go back to an old post, but I just saw this.
ROFL. You know what happens when you read old posts out of context?
You make a fool out of yourself.
Now try again and follow the quotes back and let me know when it hits you :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Galitzyaner on November 24, 2013, 11:58:32 PM
ROFL. You know what happens when you read old posts out of context?
You make a fool out of yourself.
Now try again and follow the quotes back and let me know when it hits you :D
Yikes! My bad!  ROFL is right.  I took your tendency for granted, sorry!  :-[ 
Where is the red-raced/blushing emoticon?! :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 25, 2013, 12:04:51 AM
Yikes! My bad!  ROFL is right.  I took your tendency for granted, sorry!  :-[ 
Where is the red-raced/blushing emoticon?! :)

I have biases and bewilderment but I'm nobody's fool.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Galitzyaner on November 25, 2013, 12:18:07 AM
I have biases and bewilderment but I'm nobody's fool.
Ok Dan, I'm sorry, I apologize.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0M4F4HR0r2xHNBqO3AlkaZSwp7hT2U2ICF42fSzdtJk-OpRw5tw)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 25, 2013, 12:20:49 AM
Ok Dan, I'm sorry, I apologize.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0M4F4HR0r2xHNBqO3AlkaZSwp7hT2U2ICF42fSzdtJk-OpRw5tw)
Lol, no need for that.  Just remember what they say about what happens when you assume :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 25, 2013, 12:21:06 AM
Ok Dan, I'm sorry, I apologize.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0M4F4HR0r2xHNBqO3AlkaZSwp7hT2U2ICF42fSzdtJk-OpRw5tw)
I hate those people, they freak me out.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Galitzyaner on November 25, 2013, 12:22:33 AM
Lol, no need for that.  Just remember what they say about what happens when you assume :D
Indeed.  Sometimes we need reminders, thanks! :)
I hate those people, they freak me out.
Which people?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on November 25, 2013, 12:41:00 AM
That's because CH is dying a very slow death, as it has been for 30 years now.  But it's definitely in a death-cycle no less, it's just nuanced and slow.  In 30 years from now there won't be any frum jews in CH.  You can take that to the bank. 

The same thing happened in old jewish neighborhoods like Kinsman, E. Cleveland, and Lee rd.  History repeats itself.
But it's not a bad thing.  I prefer living in a newer neighborhood than PIT's stagnant Sq. Hill community.
29 years to go... I'd say CH is about a +5 (in families) over the past year...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 25, 2013, 01:00:31 AM
Which people?
The ones who bow on the floor asking for money. Seen them all over different parts of Europe. I feel bad when people kick them, but not sure if I'd feel comfortable giving them money either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Galitzyaner on November 25, 2013, 01:11:58 AM
The ones who bow on the floor asking for money. Seen them all over different parts of Europe. I feel bad when people kick them, but not sure if I'd feel comfortable giving them money either.
Oh, lol!  I thought he's begging for forgiveness :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on November 26, 2013, 05:48:46 AM
OTOH we'll have an extra 30 minutes of BF deals online next neek and an extra 30 minutes on all those short shabbosim ;)
Not really.
The odds are probably more in favor of finding a deal that broke over Shabbos than a deal not being around all day except right before Shabbos.
More importantly, most people would rather be jumping on deals after Shabbos is over than risking chilul Shabbos for a deal as Shabbos is coming in.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 26, 2013, 11:09:01 AM
Not really.
The odds are probably more in favor of finding a deal that broke over Shabbos than a deal not being around all day except right before Shabbos.
More importantly, most people would rather be jumping on deals after Shabbos is over than risking chilul Shabbos for a deal as Shabbos is coming in.
Obviously you weren't around during the Sams' Club/UA fun late on Friday.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Armadillo on November 26, 2013, 08:26:01 PM
Obviously you weren't around during the Sams' Club/UA fun late on Friday.
No, don't remember it. But I still stand by my statement
The odds are probably more in favor
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: aussiebochur on November 26, 2013, 08:58:32 PM
Dan, would love to read this thread if you were born, bred and living in NYC...lol
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:18:19 AM
Just wondering.. after having read through the 55+ pages on this thread

For a shtreimel wearing chassidishe young guy like me who's desperate to move out of NYC what are my options besides for lakewood & monsey, i mean Beachwood Ohio sounds awesome but would i really fit in?

ideas welcome!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 27, 2013, 12:19:33 AM
Just wondering..
For a shtreimel wearing chassidishe dude like me who's desperate to move out of NYC what are my options besides for lakewood & monsey, i mean Beachwood Ohio sounds awesome but would i really fit in?

ideas welcome!
I've seen plenty of streimels here.  We even have some Rebbes :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:21:28 AM
in beachwood?, young guys?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on November 27, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Just wondering.. after having read through the 55+ pages on this thread

For a shtreimel wearing chassidishe young guy like me who's desperate to move out of NYC what are my options besides for lakewood & monsey, i mean Beachwood Ohio sounds awesome but would i really fit in?

ideas welcome!
Decent size Alexadere community in Beachwood. The Rebbe's brother started his own group/shul in Beachwood. I don't see the problem, mid-westerners are very welcoming.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:22:56 AM
I've seen plenty of streimels here.  We even have some Rebbes :)
the rebbe's is probably what i'm running away from :(
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mochada on November 27, 2013, 12:31:20 AM
Plenty of striemlach in Chicago...a few in Atlanta...maybe even other OOT communities.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on November 27, 2013, 12:38:01 AM
In Baltimore there's a guy with shtraimel and a dog
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:38:09 AM
Plenty of striemlach in Chicago...a few in Atlanta...maybe even other OOT communities.
shtreimlech in Atlanta, no way!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on November 27, 2013, 12:38:55 AM
In Baltimore there's a guy with shtraimel and a dog

Lol
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:39:38 AM
In Baltimore there's a guy with shtraimel and a dog
ok that seals the deal, i'm off to baltimore ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mochada on November 27, 2013, 12:39:49 AM
shtreimlech in Atlanta, no way!

1 or 2 and a few ex satmars...alot of heimish guys, grew up in the chassidish system but are now yeshivish
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mochada on November 27, 2013, 12:40:38 AM
In Baltimore there's a guy with shtraimel and a dog

is his wife also in the taliban?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on November 27, 2013, 12:41:05 AM
In Baltimore there's a guy with shtraimel and a dog
In Berkeley I've seen a shtreimel with a tie-dye tee shirt...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:41:38 AM
1 or 2 and a few ex satmars...alot of heimish guys, grew up in the chassidish system but are now yeshivish
interesting
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:44:36 AM
i think we can open a thread saying,

I've seen a guy with a shtreimel wearing .................
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on November 27, 2013, 12:45:38 AM
I used to see a chasidisha bachur with the whole levush + ponytail and jeans.
Poor mixed up kid (by now the levush is gone though)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on November 27, 2013, 12:47:00 AM
Continuing along these lines I've seen clean shaven guy with shtreimel
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mochada on November 27, 2013, 12:49:22 AM
Continuing along these lines I've seen clean shaven guy with shtreimel

its called a) hasnt hit puberty or b) tuna baygel
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on November 27, 2013, 12:50:19 AM
Lots of shtreimels in Milwaukee.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on November 27, 2013, 12:50:56 AM
its called a) hasnt hit puberty or b) tuna baygel
Lol I think he has kids.
This is beyond TB! Most of them at least have a face beard.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on November 27, 2013, 12:51:07 AM
Miami Beach North?
Seems to be a community growing there, but there will be a Rebbe too...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: DovtheBear on November 27, 2013, 12:53:50 AM
In Baltimore there's a guy with shtraimel and a dog
Dead? Or alive? (the dog)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on November 27, 2013, 12:55:18 AM
Dead, uses it as his pelt... :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:56:03 AM
Continuing along these lines I've seen clean shaven guy with shtreimel
got plenty of those in brooklyn
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 12:59:20 AM
BTW the Baltimore link in the wiki seems to take me to Pittsburgh ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 01:00:41 AM
Decent size Alexadere community in Beachwood. The Rebbe's brother started his own group/shul in Beachwood. I don't see the problem, mid-westerners are very welcoming.
whats his shul called?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on November 27, 2013, 01:06:46 AM
whats his shul called?
The Rebbe is of the Danzinger clan of Alexander (vs the Singer clan)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 01:16:18 AM
according to GoDaven his shul is in University Heights not Beachwood

#i'mclueless
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on November 27, 2013, 01:21:11 AM
according to GoDaven his shul is in University Heights not Beachwood

#i'mclueless
As Dan mentioned above, they are next to each other and share Shuls
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on November 27, 2013, 01:26:00 AM
i guess i gotta go & check out the place with my own eyes as apposed to driving around on streetview!!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jbkr101 on December 07, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Just wondering.. after having read through the 55+ pages on this thread

For a shtreimel wearing chassidishe young guy like me who's desperate to move out of NYC what are my options besides for lakewood & monsey, i mean Beachwood Ohio sounds awesome but would i really fit in?

ideas welcome!
alexander rebbe recently opened yeshiva to has around 8 chasiddish boys i dont think you would feel out of place everyone is very welcoming also we could use a few more striemels around here
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 04:59:23 PM
A very accurate description of Toronto:
Quote from: Point Miles and Martinis
Toronto has a lot of the components I like in a city.  The city is clean with efficient public transportation, a beautiful skyline, very diverse and friendly citizens, and owns lots of waterfront property.  That being said, in my long weekend I ran out of things I really wanted to do as a tourist pretty quickly. I had very high expectations given how much I love Montreal and Vancouver, but unfortunately I didn’t find that same magic in Toronto. To be fair it was a holiday weekend so I assume many were out of the city on weekend trips. The city came across livable but not a place I would likely return purely for tourism.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2014, 05:08:19 PM
Very accurate.
I can't wait to go back to YUL and YVR.  YYZ not so much.
And that's not only because YUL and YVR has better kosher scenes.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 23, 2014, 05:14:10 PM
A very accurate description of Toronto:
agree. However how much of the time do you tour your own city....its a beautiful place to live.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:14:32 PM
Montreal has the old Town French charm. Vancouver the outdoorsy natural beauty. YYZ is a clean, smaller and boring NYC
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2014, 05:16:11 PM
YYZ is a clean, smaller and boring NYC
With the high cost of living+traffic but without the restaurants.
Cleaner and safer at least.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:16:59 PM
agree. However how much of the time do you tour your own city....its a beautiful place to live.
Things to do with kids are limited. No children's museum. Aquarium is a welcome addition. Although services from community centers are great
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 23, 2014, 05:17:09 PM
I just was talking to someone and said, Montreal is def a very solid "out of town" place to live. its def a nice second to monsey.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:18:38 PM
With the high cost of living+traffic but without the restaurants.
Cleaner and safer at least.
Yes. Although I do have >10 restaurants within a four minute drive of my house
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:19:25 PM
I just was talking to someone and said, Montreal is def a very solid "out of town" place to live. its def a nice second to monsey.
Montreal is dying. All Canadians move to Toronto
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2014, 05:19:47 PM
Yes. Although I do have >10 restaurants within a four minute drive of my house
And I have 6.  But what's the point of eating out when they're all just OK?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2014, 05:20:18 PM
Montreal is dying. All Canadians move to Toronto
Is it? Why?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:21:15 PM
And I have 6.  But what's the point of eating out when they're all just OK?
Bali Laffa is good. Lime taco is very interesting. Kosher chopstix or whatever it's called is solid Chinese.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
Is it? Why?
Dunno. It's a shrinking community. Except maybe the satmar element
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:25:18 PM
With the high cost of living+traffic but without the restaurants.
Cleaner and safer at least.
Thank God I've managed to avoid the traffic with my commute
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moish on January 23, 2014, 05:26:32 PM
Things to do with kids are limited. No children's museum. Aquarium is a welcome addition. Although services from community centers are great
dont forgret about woodbine
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 05:27:12 PM
dont forgret about woodbine
?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moish on January 23, 2014, 05:28:32 PM
Bali Laffa is good. Lime taco is very interesting. Kosher chopstix or whatever it's called is solid Chinese.

and shanghai noodles ive never seen anywhere else
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moish on January 23, 2014, 05:29:27 PM
?
how long have you been living in toronto?

http://www.fantasyfair.ca/

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on January 23, 2014, 05:56:07 PM
Who dares talking about Montreal without asking me? Lol
I'm flying there tomorrow with the family on the Delta glitch to visit my parents.
A lovely place to live in my childhood sans the open anti-semitism met everywhere.
Je Me Souviens.
And at least what we call "downtown" is growing by leaps and bounds. NOBODY is moving away from there. I can't talk for "uptown".
There is a lot to do in Montreal for tourists. Old city is interesting even for a native.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 23, 2014, 06:32:26 PM
Dunno. It's a shrinking community. Except maybe the satmar element
Dunno about that, the Chabad element is doing fine.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: FlyFirst on January 23, 2014, 07:01:28 PM
Montreal is dying. All Canadians move to Toronto

+1  even the chasidik communities are not growing.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 23, 2014, 07:02:07 PM
+1  even the chasidik communities are not growing.

That's sad to hear. I love Montreal.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on January 23, 2014, 07:09:03 PM
+1  even the chasidik communities are not growing.

That's first class baloney.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yeki89 on January 23, 2014, 07:14:30 PM
Place or residence:
Lakewood
-con

Poor snow plowing of main roads. Side rides are disastrous!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 23, 2014, 07:32:52 PM
That's first class baloney.
Are you satmar?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Centro on January 23, 2014, 07:38:49 PM
Are you satmar?
He's belz. (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36551.msg674437.msg#674437)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 24, 2014, 01:38:35 AM
With the high cost of living+traffic but without the restaurants.
Cleaner and safer at least.
not sure what traffic you are referring to?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 24, 2014, 01:43:05 AM
nothing like chicken nest and milk n honey. also dairy treats bagels...havent seen anything like them outside toronto!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Penguin711 on January 24, 2014, 03:42:17 AM

Place or residence:
Lakewood
-con

Poor snow plowing of main roads. Side rides are disastrous!

It's not just Lakewood - it's the same thing here for the most part in brooklyn too. Both my block and my parents block which are on opposite ends of town both were not plowed until today.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 24, 2014, 03:45:15 AM
It's not just Lakewood - it's the same thing here for the most part in brooklyn too. Both my block and my parents block which are on opposite ends of town both were not plowed until today.
im not in monsey but i doubt its like that there...

@jaywhy hows florida?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on January 24, 2014, 04:00:46 AM
im not in monsey but i doubt its like that there...

@jaywhy hows florida?
When I left on Monday, it was freezing. 62 degrees ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 24, 2014, 05:06:31 AM
When I left on Monday, it was freezing. 62 degrees ;D
i can say similar to here but ill say 72 degrees :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 24, 2014, 08:15:39 AM
not sure what traffic you are referring to?


nothing like chicken nest and milk n honey. also dairy treats bagels...havent seen anything like them outside toronto!
LOL. Classic Torontonian. You people are delusional about anything Toronto
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: aygart on January 24, 2014, 10:27:21 AM
I haven't yet found a community that isn't like that
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on January 24, 2014, 10:30:58 AM
I haven't yet found a community that isn't like that
Huh?
And I have 6.  But what's the point of eating out when they're all just OK?
Spinning mediocrity into something amazing is just silly. 
Toronto is clean and seems pretty safe, stick with those selling points. 

It ought to be a top kosher scene based on it's size but it's just not.  YUL and YVR put it to shame.  As do LAX/MIA/NYC/ORD.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bluiemonster1 on January 24, 2014, 10:48:10 AM
It's great that our citys reputation for cold winters has scared everyone away,  because that's part of what makes MINNEAPOLIS the best Jewish community in the us.
Small, clean,beautiful,safe, with abundant lakes and trails, a few kosher restaurants ( maybe one or two more wouldn't hurt  ::)), great people, and just a really good place to live and raise a family!
Not that the entire new York should come and move in...  :D
IMjust bragging... ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bluiemonster1 on January 24, 2014, 10:50:03 AM
Oh and btw our weather is great in the summer and in the winter we bundle up!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on January 24, 2014, 10:59:19 AM
I like Minneapolis a lot. If only it were just a tad bigger. For now I just stick to the occasional visits.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Mikeoracle on January 24, 2014, 11:38:34 AM
I lived in Montreal for 2.5 years (uptown). The only area that was really growing with young people is the "Downtown" chassidish community. I hear that there are attempts to help grow the young community "Uptown" but I left frustrated with the job Market, and lack of social scene our age. I am also not a cold weather person so that didnt help.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ayman on January 26, 2014, 01:40:31 AM
Oh and btw our weather is great in the summer and in the winter we bundle up!
U better bundle up! What's the real feel calling for this week up there?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Penguin711 on January 26, 2014, 01:55:03 AM

U better bundle up! What's the real feel calling for this week up there?

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/26/e3e5e4y8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 26, 2014, 02:02:43 AM
LOL. Classic Torontonian. You people are delusional about anything Toronto
you seem to be from Toronto....or did you move there recently?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 26, 2014, 07:58:55 AM
you seem to be from Toronto....or did you move there recently?
The latter. I definitely sound like an outsider. If I stay I'll probably sound like you in ten years
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eis517 on January 26, 2014, 08:22:56 AM
The latter. I definitely sound like an outsider. If I stay I'll probably sound like you in ten years
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 26, 2014, 10:24:35 AM
The latter. I definitely sound like an outsider. If I stay I'll probably sound like you in ten years
welcome! I more or less moved out a while ago but visit often....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 26, 2014, 02:31:58 PM
welcome! I more or less moved out a while ago but visit often....
Thanks. Where did you live. Let me guess: down south
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 26, 2014, 02:32:04 PM
welcome! I more or less moved out a while ago but visit often....
Thanks. Where did you live. Let me guess: down south
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 26, 2014, 06:13:24 PM
Nope. South but not all the way south....in between.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Gets on January 26, 2014, 07:07:03 PM
I spent a few years learning in Montreal. IMHO Beautiful place to visit but not a place to live
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: philbenjoe on January 26, 2014, 07:24:27 PM
I spent a few years learning in Montreal. IMHO Beautiful place to visit but not a place to live
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on January 26, 2014, 08:57:36 PM
Nope. South but not all the way south....in between.

Bathurst & Lawrence? 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on January 27, 2014, 01:12:34 PM
Bathurst & Lawrence?
That's all the way south. I assume he means clanton park
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: shiframeir on January 27, 2014, 06:35:55 PM
Staten Island (Willowbrook)

Pros:
- safe community, crime is virtually unheard of (notwithstanding white collar and one terrible homicide by a crazed husband).  You can sleep at night without every being awoken by sirens.
- Pretty good express bus service to downtown (35min) and midtown (50min) NYC, though little public transportation to brooklyn. New GPS tracking of buses makes it easy to not wait to long for a city bus. 15-minute drive to EWR airport.
- Housing is very cheap for NYC (less than $500k for a fixer-up detached home about 4000 sq ft plot 4br 3bath with nice backyard and about $380k for a move-in condition and quality semi (3br 2bath 3000sq ft plot).
- Parking is plentiful and no internal street traffic, though the staten island expressway can get really slow at peak times (but Islanders know the side streets which can help to an extent). 
- The streets are clean and everyone has their own garage.  There's no alternate side business and no parking meters.
- Low real estate taxes (about 2600 for a semi), much less than 5 towns, but need to pay NYC taxes. on bright side, decent snow services, and Con-Ed did a great job during Hurricane Sandy (only one planned 3 hour outage for most houses).
- More of an out-of-town feel than the rest of NYC, people are generally quite friendly and say good shabbos to each other with a smile. Much more accepting of different looks/dress than brooklyn/queens.
- Schools are decent and cheap, with JFS (modern), RJJ (frummer, but a good mix of MOs) and a small chabad + local nursery options.  i have personally been impressed with RJJ (considering the relatively low tuition) and JFS is a decent co-ed/modern option, plus there are transportation options to brooklyn for frummer or NJ for more modern. Tuition is cheaper than most places, but the quality/caliber of faculty is probably a notch down (not that i mind).
- lots of  trees and great parks and trails, and more parks (and a ferris wheel) coming in the future. great non-jewish store choices all within 5-10 minutes driving, such as trader joes, costco, target and the staten island mall in general. jersey gardens outlets about 15 minutes away.
- Has all basic kosher needs, though many come at a small $premium to brooklyn, very good and quality butcher (Payless), good takeout (kosher island), servicable bakery (Famous), great pizza and more (Dairy Palace), cholov yisroel ice cream/breakfast and more (scoops), Holy Schnitzel (schnitzel/salads) and Chopshtix (chinese/fried chicken) with free delivery, Cafe J at the JCC (broad from deli to burgers etc.). kosher (Chalav stam) carvel and dunkin donuts.
- Eruv and wide variety of shuls/people, with growing kollel (which some consider a con) at R Pollack's Shul (chassidish/sfard frummer feel), large Young israel with all types (including a classic minyan, modern sfard minyan, a teen minyan and bi-monthly young married minyan), small Agudah with R Moshe Meir Weiss, several edus mizrach type shuls and a classic chabad shul, cheder and yeshiva. hashkama minyan, faster minyans etc.
- great youth services at young israel like arranged babysitting on RH/YK so wives can daven, and regular shabbos groups during shachris/mussaf and also in afternoon (combined with regular groups, kids can be out with friends from 2:30-6pm).

Cons:
- The majority of the community came 25-30+ years ago and is older and slowly dying out/moving to Israel/Florida/Lakewood etc. to be with kids. fear that the handful of new young families that take the leap and buy a house each year won't grow at the rate the old families leave/die, and cause the limited local services to dwindle.
- NY weather.
- The local kosher restaurant scene is fairly dismal (and nothing near hi-class), and the lack of one all-in-one kosher grocery store like a Gourmet Glatt is a big negative for those who dont want to go to one place for bakery, takeout and regular kosher groceries.  Some say Staten will never be able to support such a local store since so many just buy in brooklyn (or get it delivered). on the plus side, brooklyn and downtown ny can be a 20 minute drive if you want to go out somewhere nice, or Teaneck is about 40mins.
- Houses are still relatively expensive vs out of town, and most options are High-Ranches, which some (like me) dont like too much. Virtually no classic apartment buildings, so young crowd is limited to basement apartments and a few other choices, and SI can never be a KGH or other hi-rental zone full of young married couples.
- Full NYC taxes, and must cross bridges (with some discounts) to get off the island.
- Very Limited high school options. Boys: (small low-priced chofetz chaim on island for boys, plus Yeshiva of Staten Island and other more hardcore frum yeshivos (with little general studies). JEC is more modern local choice in NJ, and some frum send their kids to Philly/Ner yisroel etc.  Girls: nothing. Bruriah in NJ for more modern, or some shlep to Manhattan, and Prospect park for frumer in Brooklyn.
- Some feel the local yeshivos are subpar, and run at an operating loss requiring significant fundraising.
- Need to drive/bike to get groceries/food etc. Suburban zoning sets the homes away from virtually all shopping/restaurants.
- will always be made fun of b/c there used to be a huge dump on the island (could be seen from space).
- Traffic on summer sundays from NJ and from brooklyn on friday afternoons in winter can be really slow on local Expressway.
- Was really built by courageous and powerful characters who have moved on, and there is no real leader of the community anymore.
- Very republican-heavy with a strong conservative tilt (for those who care about politics).

happy to take questions
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bluiemonster1 on January 27, 2014, 06:53:40 PM
Shoutout to denver! This quote is from La La Anthony (Carmelo's wife) about where he moght play in the future:
"Listen, I used to live in Denver with him. If I can live in Denver, I can live anywhere. I just want him to be happy."

Hahahahahahaha ;D
No one ever said this about Minneapolis!   8)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on January 27, 2014, 07:18:04 PM
Staten Island (Willowbrook)

Pros:
- safe community, crime is virtually unheard of (notwithstanding white collar and one terrible homicide by a crazed husband).  You can sleep at night without every being awoken by sirens.
- Pretty good express bus service to downtown (35min) and midtown (50min) NYC, though little public transportation to brooklyn. New GPS tracking of buses makes it easy to not wait to long for a city bus. 15-minute drive to EWR airport.
- Housing is very cheap for NYC (less than $500k for a fixer-up detached home about 4000 sq ft plot 4br 3bath with nice backyard and about $380k for a move-in condition and quality semi (3br 2bath 3000sq ft plot).
- Parking is plentiful and no internal street traffic, though the staten island expressway can get really slow at peak times (but Islanders know the side streets which can help to an extent). 
- The streets are clean and everyone has their own garage.  There's no alternate side business and no parking meters.
- Low real estate taxes (about 2600 for a semi), much less than 5 towns, but need to pay NYC taxes. on bright side, decent snow services, and Con-Ed did a great job during Hurricane Sandy (only one planned 3 hour outage for most houses).
- More of an out-of-town feel than the rest of NYC, people are generally quite friendly and say good shabbos to each other with a smile. Much more accepting of different looks/dress than brooklyn/queens.
- Schools are decent and cheap, with JFS (modern), RJJ (frummer, but a good mix of MOs) and a small chabad + local nursery options.  i have personally been impressed with RJJ (considering the relatively low tuition) and JFS is a decent co-ed/modern option, plus there are transportation options to brooklyn for frummer or NJ for more modern. Tuition is cheaper than most places, but the quality/caliber of faculty is probably a notch down (not that i mind).
- lots of  trees and great parks and trails, and more parks (and a ferris wheel) coming in the future. great non-jewish store choices all within 5-10 minutes driving, such as trader joes, costco, target and the staten island mall in general. jersey gardens outlets about 15 minutes away.
- Has all basic kosher needs, though many come at a small $premium to brooklyn, very good and quality butcher (Payless), good takeout (kosher island), servicable bakery (Famous), great pizza and more (Dairy Palace), cholov yisroel ice cream/breakfast and more (scoops), Holy Schnitzel (schnitzel/salads) and Chopshtix (chinese/fried chicken) with free delivery, Cafe J at the JCC (broad from deli to burgers etc.). kosher (Chalav stam) carvel and dunkin donuts.
- Eruv and wide variety of shuls/people, with growing kollel (which some consider a con) at R Pollack's Shul (chassidish/sfard frummer feel), large Young israel with all types (including a classic minyan, modern sfard minyan, a teen minyan and bi-monthly young married minyan), small Agudah with R Moshe Meir Weiss, several edus mizrach type shuls and a classic chabad shul, cheder and yeshiva. hashkama minyan, faster minyans etc.
- great youth services at young israel like arranged babysitting on RH/YK so wives can daven, and regular shabbos groups during shachris/mussaf and also in afternoon (combined with regular groups, kids can be out with friends from 2:30-6pm).

Cons:
- The majority of the community came 25-30+ years ago and is older and slowly dying out/moving to Israel/Florida/Lakewood etc. to be with kids. fear that the handful of new young families that take the leap and buy a house each year won't grow at the rate the old families leave/die, and cause the limited local services to dwindle.
- NY weather.
- The local kosher restaurant scene is fairly dismal (and nothing near hi-class), and the lack of one all-in-one kosher grocery store like a Gourmet Glatt is a big negative for those who dont want to go to one place for bakery, takeout and regular kosher groceries.  Some say Staten will never be able to support such a local store since so many just buy in brooklyn (or get it delivered). on the plus side, brooklyn and downtown ny can be a 20 minute drive if you want to go out somewhere nice, or Teaneck is about 40mins.
- Houses are still relatively expensive vs out of town, and most options are High-Ranches, which some (like me) dont like too much. Virtually no classic apartment buildings, so young crowd is limited to basement apartments and a few other choices, and SI can never be a KGH or other hi-rental zone full of young married couples.
- Full NYC taxes, and must cross bridges (with some discounts) to get off the island.
- Very Limited high school options. Boys: (small low-priced chofetz chaim on island for boys, plus Yeshiva of Staten Island and other more hardcore frum yeshivos (with little general studies). JEC is more modern local choice in NJ, and some frum send their kids to Philly/Ner yisroel etc.  Girls: nothing. Bruriah in NJ for more modern, or some shlep to Manhattan, and Prospect park for frumer in Brooklyn.
- Some feel the local yeshivos are subpar, and run at an operating loss requiring significant fundraising.
- Need to drive/bike to get groceries/food etc. Suburban zoning sets the homes away from virtually all shopping/restaurants.
- will always be made fun of b/c there used to be a huge dump on the island (could be seen from space).
- Traffic on summer sundays from NJ and from brooklyn on friday afternoons in winter can be really slow on local Expressway.
- Was really built by courageous and powerful characters who have moved on, and there is no real leader of the community anymore.
- Very republican-heavy with a strong conservative tilt (for those who care about politics).

happy to take questions
did u not read today's post.

Con. Drug dealers.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on January 27, 2014, 07:59:31 PM
did u not read today's post.

Con. Drug dealers.
What does that have to do with Willowbrook?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: shiframeir on January 27, 2014, 08:13:32 PM
did u not read today's post.

Con. Drug dealers.
if you mean the kid who was allegedly busted for being a marijuana kingpin, i am actually proud of how the Rabbi of the Young Israel (R Lehrfield) at least grappled and considered making the aufruf (for the otherwise fine family) before turning it down. i much rather have a rabbi who is open and tries to consider all angles than a stubborn closed-minded my-way or the highway. in the end there was no aufruf, most probably because the rabbi considered all the hilarious comments on VIN. http://www.vosizneias.com/152383/2014/01/16/staten-island-ny-rabbi-perplexed-over-proper-protocol-in-handling-scheduled-aufruf-for-jewish-drug-kingpin/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on January 27, 2014, 08:34:35 PM
if you mean the kid who was allegedly busted for being a marijuana kingpin, i am actually proud of how the Rabbi of the Young Israel (R Lehrfield) at least grappled and considered making the aufruf (for the otherwise fine family) before turning it down. i much rather have a rabbi who is open and tries to consider all angles than a stubborn closed-minded my-way or the highway. in the end there was no aufruf, most probably because the rabbi considered all the hilarious comments on VIN. http://www.vosizneias.com/152383/2014/01/16/staten-island-ny-rabbi-perplexed-over-proper-protocol-in-handling-scheduled-aufruf-for-jewish-drug-kingpin/
Sorry rots, couldn't find your article in the post, and what I did see made no mention of Willowbrook.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: challah baker on February 12, 2014, 10:51:48 AM
Hi Dan, really anyone who lives in Cleveland -
Me and my husband are very seriously considering moving to University Heights/Beachwood. We actually were there last week checking it out, and we don't have much time left to make a decision. My husband would be joining the Beachwood Kollel. Please please let me know what you think of these towns, and if someone wouldn't mind posting their or their wive's phone number or email address I would really appreciate it. If not I guess I'll just post specific questions here?
Main things I noticed from being there 2 days: no decent place to eat out, definite culture shock in that respect coming from NY/NJ. Also, Beachwood Place Mall is excellent, and people were super super nice to us wherever we went! I also prefer the demographics there to Lakewood  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 12, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
Hi Dan, ......
Please please let me know what you think of these towns,
that's actually highly secret info. Dan will never actually tell you what he thinks about these places.
But I'll tell you a little trick: go back and read his posts in this thread very carefully, if you really concentrate hard and look really carefully at what he wrote, you might get lucky and find some hints to what his opinion of these places is.
Good luck!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on February 12, 2014, 12:16:59 PM
Hi Dan, really anyone who lives in Cleveland -
Me and my husband are very seriously considering moving to University Heights/Beachwood. We actually were there last week checking it out, and we don't have much time left to make a decision. My husband would be joining the Beachwood Kollel. Please please let me know what you think of these towns, and if someone wouldn't mind posting their or their wive's phone number or email address I would really appreciate it. If not I guess I'll just post specific questions here?
Main things I noticed from being there 2 days: no decent place to eat out, definite culture shock in that respect coming from NY/NJ. Also, Beachwood Place Mall is excellent, and people were super super nice to us wherever we went! I also prefer the demographics there to Lakewood  ;)

What exactly do you want to know? Whether to move to the area in general or which part of town to move to?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on February 12, 2014, 12:17:40 PM
that's actually highly secret info. Dan will never actually tell you what he thinks about these places.
But I'll tell you a little trick: go back and read his posts in this thread very carefully, if you really concentrate hard and look really carefully at what he wrote, you might get lucky and find some hints to what his opinion of these places is.
Good luck!

Alol! Sarcasm... but well warranted!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on February 12, 2014, 12:40:12 PM
that's actually highly secret info. Dan will never actually tell you what he thinks about these places.
But I'll tell you a little trick: go back and read his posts in this thread very carefully, if you really concentrate hard and look really carefully at what he wrote, you might get lucky and find some hints to what his opinion of these places is.
Good luck!
A little harsh for a first time poster, don't you think?  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 12, 2014, 12:59:32 PM
A little harsh for a first time poster, don't you think?  ;)
Perhaps, but I couldn't resist.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rj95 on February 13, 2014, 10:42:11 PM
I'm moving to Miami.New Jersey is getting way too much snow for my liking.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 13, 2014, 10:45:44 PM
I'm moving to Miami.New Jersey is getting way too much snow for my liking.
Why not CA where the summers aren't torture?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bluiemonster1 on February 13, 2014, 11:10:01 PM
Why not CA where the summers aren't torture?
+1000 Miami sucks most of the year
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: username on February 13, 2014, 11:20:02 PM
My favorite donuts in the world! chocolate emporium is opening a cholov yisroel cafe!!!
chocolate emporium in cleveland is closing tommorow. They are all out of the soft serve cy ice cream.
Will miss having them, although I was not a big customer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Kabrams1618 on February 13, 2014, 11:21:02 PM
My children use their free time to build Eretz Yisrael instead of going to the mall.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 13, 2014, 11:22:28 PM
chocolate emporium in cleveland is closing tommorow. They are all out of the soft serve cy ice cream.
Will miss having them, although I was not a big customer.
Kinneret has soft serve, not really going to miss CE. 
I do miss their old location when they actually had real ice cream to choose from.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 13, 2014, 11:29:34 PM
Why not CA where the summers aren't torture?
+1
And where the schools are of high quality...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ual902 on February 13, 2014, 11:30:45 PM
Why not CA where the summers aren't torture?

 Depending where in CA, Pico\ La Brea are so UN-affordable unless you have a  nice trust fund and besides the Jew areas in LA are becoming more and more ghetto like Brooklyn, maybe the Valley, Orange County or SAN might be an option.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2014, 01:00:58 AM
+1
And where the schools are of high quality...
That's debatable. And they're quite pricy.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on February 14, 2014, 01:46:27 AM

Depending where in CA, Pico\ La Brea are so UN-affordable unless you have a  nice trust fund and besides the Jew areas in LA are becoming more and more ghetto like Brooklyn, maybe the Valley, Orange County or SAN might be an option.
+1

You have to be millionaire to live a comfortable Jewish life in LA, not to mention keeping up with the joneses
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2014, 01:50:11 AM
Is LA that much more expensive than Brooklyn? Not like Brooklyn is cheap living and both have high taxes.
At least LA gives you great year-round weather as opposed to miserable NYC summers and miserable NYC winters.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on February 14, 2014, 01:53:35 AM

Is LA that much more expensive than Brooklyn? Not like Brooklyn is cheap living and both have high taxes.
At least LA gives you great year-round weather as opposed to miserable NYC summers and miserable NYC winters.

Probably not, but there are no cheaper places a little outside La with Jewish communities the way there are outside Brooklyn (throughout NY). So it's in or out. And most young couples choose out as soon as they realize they'll never afford a home.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2014, 02:19:04 AM
Probably not, but there are no cheaper places a little outside La with Jewish communities the way there are outside Brooklyn (throughout NY). So it's in or out. And most young couples choose out as soon as they realize they'll never afford a home.
Valley?
Title: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on February 14, 2014, 02:19:27 AM
Valley?

It's definitely gaining popularity
Title: Re: Snow in NY Area
Post by: zale on February 18, 2014, 04:37:31 PM

LA has the best weather/jewish community combo but has more than its fair share of other major issues.


Can you name a few?

Quote
HIs issue is no community.  Let's build one!

What if the Japs decide to attack?  :P

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 18, 2014, 05:30:50 PM
Can you name a few?

I'll just repost this from my FB wall:


Daniel Eleff
December 25, 2013
Finally met a frum person in LA who was able to understand the various reasons to not to live in LA.
Everyone else here gives me this crazy look like I am completely out of my mind before slowly backing away from me.
16 28Like · · Promote · Share

 
    David S My guess is that he's an impostor and probably really WASN'T from L.A.
    December 25, 2013 at 7:36am · Like

    Mendel K Dan ur fighting a lost battle. Just get over it.
    December 25, 2013 at 10:01am · Like

    Blima T Where did you find this person? Definitely a transplant who hasn't been here long enough.... Took me 5 years to get over that. And I totally see why people don't live here, I just don't think is chose to live in snow and cold for those minor details......
    December 25, 2013 at 10:32am · Like · 1

    Reuven G affordable living is not a "minor detail"
    December 25, 2013 at 11:57am · Like

    Daniel Eleff Actually it was a local born and bred girl, had the whole LA debate walking back with a couple young couples after the Elon Gold show walking back to the hotel.
    December 25, 2013 at 12:43pm · Like

    Daniel Eleff Pros: Weather, restaurants. OK those can't be overstated, it's freaking awesome. Puts Miami to utter shame.
    Cons: Crazy.

    As in crazy house prices, crazy income tax, crazy grocery and cost of living prices, crazy people, crazy billboards that you don't want your kids to see, crazy street parking regulations, and really really crazy traffic.
    Oh, and if you want to call a store to ask a question or see if they carry something you need to learn another language. Seriously

    December 25, 2013 at 12:48pm · Like · 6

    Blima T It's all perspective..... I justify my house price by thinking I paid for the pool and climate/location, not the house itself, the income tax kills me, and yes TOTALLY sucks!! The billboards I count as a pro.... Saves me from having to explain things to my kids, so I can avoid those awkward conversations
    December 25, 2013 at 12:51pm · Like · 2

    Mordechai L Daniel Eleff not to mention no culture, little architecture, amazing ability to have so few craft breweries when it's located between giants like San Diego and San Francisco.
    December 25, 2013 at 12:52pm · Like

    Aaron E Con. The big one.
    December 25, 2013 at 12:55pm · Like

    Daniel Eleff  Blima you're hysterical. But in all seriousness am I wrong thinking CLE kids are a whole lot more innocent than LA/NY kids?
    Sure once we grow up it all equalizes, but it seems like there's just more of that sublime state of childhood innocence when I see and talk to CLE kids.
    December 25, 2013 at 12:55pm · Like

    Tova N Hahahaha, Blima!
    December 25, 2013 at 12:56pm · Like

    Daniel Eleff CLE actually has some fantastic craft breweries now. Great culture, museums, fanatical sports fans, etc. And Cedar Point
    And a house is $150K, a really nice house is $300K, and a 10 bedroom mansion with an elevator is $750K.
    Beachwood is so safe and clean with such a low cost of living...Really don't find that in other jewish communities.

    I guess my question is whether the weather really makes it worth putting up with all the cons. I guess for most people it is.
    December 25, 2013 at 12:59pm · Edited · Like · 2

    Tova N Kids, in general, are exposed to more garbage these days, no matter the location. Our generation grew up more wholesome because times were slightly less corrupted then.
    December 25, 2013 at 1:00pm · Like · 1

    Daniel Eleff Ban the internet
    December 25, 2013 at 1:01pm · Like · 1

    Blima T Plenty of innocent kids here in LA. The big con is financial, but that's not putting a price on the pros that are priceless! Agree that the big one is a con, and frankly even a little one isn't too pleasant, but that's another price to live somewhere where you get to see this while walking on a dec morning......
    Blima T's photo.
    December 25, 2013 at 1:01pm · Like · 2

    Blima T It's the kids with nothing else to do that get into real trouble. Here at least they get to play sports outdoors yr round. If your outdoorsy you can't beat it. Can bike mountains, trails, along the beach.....you get the point
    December 25, 2013 at 1:02pm · Like

    Daniel Eleff True, true.
    December 25, 2013 at 1:03pm · Like

    Ellie B Daniel Eleff, so what do you think about our shack
    December 25, 2013 at 1:04pm · Like

    Daniel E Talking to several of the young couples here who just live paycheck to paycheck to pay the $3,000 monthly rent check just boggles my mind.

    In CLE nobody could give a crap if you drive a fancy car, it's meaningless. In LA it feels like there's pressure to have one, even if you're broke.
    December 25, 2013 at 1:04pm · Like · 2

    Daniel Eleff It's funny, my blood pressure is lower thanks to the weather here but as soon as I get into a car and sit in standstill traffic it goes right back up again. And then to find parking without a permit sign, etc.

    I think it's nearly as big of a con as the financial aspect. So good to land in CLE and get on the 480/271 and know I'll drive those 30 miles in 25 minutes.
    December 25, 2013 at 1:06pm · Like · 1

    Daniel Eleff Listen I'm really torn, I do love LA. But I think just visiting once or twice a year to break up the winter gives me enough of a taste to enjoy it without dealing with the year-round cons.
    December 25, 2013 at 1:07pm · Like

Blima T But what do you eat every day? I guess you're lucky both your mom and wife are great cooks and hostesses. I don't think I could survive somewhere where my family was dependent on food I had to make from scratch.......
December 25, 2013 at 1:11pm · Edited · Like · 3

Daniel Eleff My wife is an insane baker and cooker. Like, the best.

But I've also been known to use 4,500 Avios and go to Chicago or NYC for a meal and fly back home

Chef Dave in CLE is also a nice new option to have.
December 25, 2013 at 1:12pm · Edited · Like · 4

Chaya G LOL guys!!! Hahaha billboards are a plus!
December 25, 2013 at 1:46pm · Like · 1

Sarah R What's chef Dave?
December 25, 2013 at 11:54pm · Like

Estie B Daniel Eleff.. you mean you can't find a deal on the LA permit parking?!
December 26, 2013 at 11:42am · Like

Dan S What's Chef Dave? I would love to move to Cleveland just for the cost of living but it's hard to get a job with a full beard unless your a doctor lawyer, you own your own business or you work at a school. Trust me I've looked.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 18, 2014, 06:19:05 PM
I'll just repost this from my FB wall:
December 25, 2013 -    <  <  Are you serious? When you were in LA for DDSLA, I was thinking that it would be a great place for you and your family:
Blima T Where did you find this person? Definitely a transplant who hasn't been here long enough.... Took me 5 years to get over that. And I totally see why people don't live here, I just don't think is chose to live in snow and cold for those minor details......  <  <  It's not minor; it's a big deal for young children to have to be indoors for a long time...
    ....
    Daniel Eleff Actually it was a local born and bred girl, had the whole LA debate walking back with a couple young couples after the Elon Gold show walking back to the hotel.

    Daniel Eleff Pros: Weather, restaurants. OK those can't be overstated, it's freaking awesome. Puts Miami to utter shame.
    Cons: Crazy.
    Blima T It's all perspective..... I justify my house price by thinking I paid for the pool and climate/location, not the house itself, the income tax kills me, and yes TOTALLY sucks!! The billboards I count as a pro.... Saves me from having to explain things to my kids, so I can avoid those awkward conversations
    ^  ^ Exactly -- those prices are for the climate, parks, water, and great weather.

    Daniel Eleff  Blima you're hysterical. But in all seriousness am I wrong thinking CLE kids are a whole lot more innocent than LA/NY kids?
    Sure once we grow up it all equalizes, but it seems like there's just more of that sublime state of childhood innocence when I see and talk to CLE kids.
     ^  ^ Important. Good point.  ^  ^

    Daniel Eleff CLE actually has some fantastic craft breweries now. Great culture, museums, fanatical sports fans, etc. And Cedar Point
    And a house is $150K, a really nice house is $300K, and a 10 bedroom mansion with an elevator is $750K.
    Beachwood is so safe and clean with such a low cost of living...Really don't find that in other jewish communities.

    I guess my question is whether the weather really makes it worth putting up with all the cons. I guess for most people it is.
       ^  ^  Yes! A lot of pros to that.  ^  ^

    Tova N Kids, in general, are exposed to more garbage these days, no matter the location. Our generation grew up more wholesome because times were slightly less corrupted then.
       ^  ^ To me, that's the biggest con and why we did not move there. However, the schools have improved over the years. Helps to counteract a lot of that. And nowadays, there's a lot of 'globalization', so as parents that area is where we will need to spend much of our time and attention. To combat the negative influences, and reinforce, praise, accentuate, and promote our positive way of life and living. 

    Blima T Plenty of innocent kids here in LA. The big con is financial, but that's not putting a price on the pros that are priceless! Agree that the big one is a con, and frankly even a little one isn't too pleasant, but that's another price to live somewhere where you get to see this while walking on a dec morning......
    Blima T's photo.  << Would like to see that...  mine has snow...   >>    'white'

    Blima T It's the kids with nothing else to do that get into real trouble. Here at least they get to play sports outdoors yr round. If your outdoorsy you can't beat it. Can bike mountains, trails, along the beach.....you get the point
   
    Daniel Eleff True, true.
    Daniel E Talking to several of the young couples here who just live paycheck to paycheck to pay the $3,000 monthly rent check just boggles my mind.
  ^ ^ Yes, that would be challenge #2.  The number one would be good Chinuch..  From what I've heard that's top quality now

    In CLE nobody could give a crap if you drive a fancy car, it's meaningless. In LA it feels like there's pressure to have one, even if you're broke.
    ^ ^ I like cars, but that would not be a need, at all.  Last on the list.  ^ ^

    Daniel Eleff Listen I'm really torn, I do love LA. But I think just visiting once or twice a year to break up the winter gives me enough of a taste to enjoy it without dealing with the year-round cons.
   
Blima T But what do you eat every day? I guess you're lucky both your mom and wife are great cooks and hostesses. I don't think I could survive somewhere where my family was dependent on food I had to make from scratch.......

Daniel Eleff My wife is an insane baker and cooker. Like, the best.   <<   :D   >> 

Estie B Daniel Eleff.. you mean you can't find a deal on the LA permit parking?!   <  <  He won't need that -- Self-employed

Dan S What's Chef Dave? I would love to move to Cleveland just for the cost of living but it's hard to get a job with a full beard unless your a doctor lawyer, you own your own business or you work at a school. Trust me I've looked.  < <  Even with a beard, Dan can work almost anywhere -- And, he can also be Self-Employed
^  ^ blue ^ ^ , my comments to his fb comments
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on February 18, 2014, 06:19:26 PM
Comparing LA to CLE, the financial aspect is huge. Comparing it to Brooklyn or other major Jewish hubs, don't know if the margin of difference is nearly as wide.
However, the fact that other places don't have these billboards... now that's compelling. I remember coming back from Israel and being shocked. A year away from them made me realize just how bad they really are! I definitely vote to keep kids innocent.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on February 18, 2014, 06:42:24 PM
Comparing LA to CLE, the financial aspect is huge. Comparing it to Brooklyn or other major Jewish hubs, don't know if the margin of difference is nearly as wide.
However, the fact that other places don't have these billboards... now that's compelling. I remember coming back from Israel and being shocked. A year away from them made me realize just how bad they really are! I definitely vote to keep kids innocent.
Maybe it's just me, but although the billboards are obtrusive to begin with they are a lot less so as you get used to them just being part of the background.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on February 18, 2014, 06:44:39 PM

Maybe it's just me, but although the billboards are obtrusive to begin with they are a lot less so as you get used to them just being part of the background.

But do you get used to them as being part of the scenery or do you just get desensitized?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 18, 2014, 06:51:33 PM
do you just get desensitized?
That. IMHO.
Anyone coming from CLE, where there are none, is rightfully shocked.
I do believe kids are lot less innocent in bigger cities than they are in smaller towns.

You say the cons are the price of "climate, parks, water, and great weather"
But CLE has plentiful awesome water and parks and I don't know the difference between climate and weather.

Sure the weather is great.  I'm just not sure it's worth the price.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on February 18, 2014, 07:03:17 PM
But do you get used to them as being part of the scenery or do you just get desensitized?
Probably desensitized, but I'd say the same thing for people living in South Florida with how people dress pretty much all year just walking around (LA is not all year, just more than other, more northern parts of the country.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 18, 2014, 07:08:26 PM
True.
Even more so in SYD or GIG.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mb1 on February 18, 2014, 11:28:14 PM
I'm moving to Miami.New Jersey is getting way too much snow for my liking.
Why not CA where the summers aren't torture?
LA is a much bigger move from NJ.
And summers in NJ are no picnic either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 18, 2014, 11:36:11 PM
Bigger move?
Once you're moving 1K miles what's another 1.4K?
And I'm talking about summers in LA vs. MIA.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mb1 on February 18, 2014, 11:49:26 PM
Bigger move?
Once you're moving 1K miles what's another 1.4K?
And I'm talking about summers in LA vs. MIA.
Bigger move assuming you have family and friends that you plan on visiting.

And even though LA summers are much nicer then Miami's, if it comes down to choosing between NJ or Miami the choice is clear.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 12:01:39 AM
So you have to fly 5 hours instead of 2.5?
I don't see why that's a factor at all.
Not sure why you keep comparing it to NJ.  The eastern seaboard is known for miserable summers and winters and a high cost of living. But yes folks, lots of schools and restaurants.

In my eyes the LA vs MIA factor is that LA has higher housing and taxes but offers perfect weather all year round while MIA is miserably humid for 6-7 months out of the year.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mb1 on February 19, 2014, 12:20:33 AM
Yes, 2.5 vs 5 hours and the price of the flight is a big difference to some people.

And I was just saying NJ because a earlier commentator said he's movng from NJ to MIA.

So yes, LA vs MIA is a toss up between higher cost of living or perfect weather, but MIA compared to anywhere in the northeast is no contest. So if LA is not an option MIA is still a major improvement.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on February 19, 2014, 12:22:56 AM
So you have to fly 5 hours instead of 2.5?
I don't see why that's a factor at all.
Not sure why you keep comparing it to NJ.  The eastern seaboard is known for miserable summers and winters and a high cost of living. But yes folks, lots of schools and restaurants.

In my eyes the LA vs MIA factor is that LA has higher housing and taxes but offers perfect weather all year round while MIA is miserably humid for 6-7 months out of the year.
Another 2.5 hours is the difference between a short hop and an actual flight, at least for me.
Being on EST is also a big deal.

True, the heat and humidity here can be brutal for long stretches of time but at it's peak - it's the same as a brutal summer day in NYC. The difference is that it doesn't cool down for months. But you get used to it. You dress for the climate, you hit the pool frequently, and drink lots of cold beer.

The cost of living, especially when you get out of MIA proper, is much lower than NYC and LA, and the tax and business climate in FL is arguably the best in the country.

That is a serious counterweight to LA's perfect weather.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 12:23:38 AM
And I'm talking about summers in LA vs. MIA.

That's what I hoped you meant, because it's LA that's put to shame by MIA during winter.......
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 12:29:38 AM
Another 2.5 hours is the difference between a short hop and an actual flight, at least for me.
Being on EST is also a big deal.

True, the heat and humidity here can be brutal for long stretches of time but at it's peak - it's the same as a brutal summer day in NYC. The difference is that it doesn't cool down for months. But you get used to it. You dress for the climate, you hit the pool frequently, and drink lots of cold beer.

The cost of living, especially when you get out of MIA proper, is much lower than NYC and LA, and the tax and business climate in FL is arguably the best in the country.

That is a serious counterweight to LA's perfect weather.
All good and fine, but from my seat in this miserable winter I'm looking forward to a fantastic summer.
The NYC guys are looking forward to escaping the miserable summer there in their upstate bungalows.
And the MIA guys are enjoying the outdoors before the miserable summer hits-though at least their restaurants will be less crowded as nobody wants to be in MIA in the summer.

Meanwhile the LA guys are laughing at all of us.  They have amazing weather now and they will in the summer as well.

So I ask again.  Why uproot myself from a place with 6 months of great weather and 6 months of crap for the exact same thing flipped.
We can cope with the winter just like you can cope with the summer. It's called staying indoors.  Though I find it easier to bundle up in a ridiculous parka and some uggs than to strip down and walk about like that's normal.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 12:31:40 AM
That's what I hoped you meant, because it's LA that's put to shame by MIA during winter.......
Disagree. I'd take 70s/50s over a humid 80s/70s as a nice change in season.  But I can see people preferring MIA in the winter.

Overall (what I meant by year-round assuming you're not a snow bird) there's just no comparison.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 19, 2014, 12:36:50 AM
Disagree. I'd take 70s/50s over a humid 80s/70s as a nice change in season.  But I can see people preferring MIA in the winter.

Overall (what I meant by year-round assuming you're not a snow bird) there's just no comparison.
+1
In addition to the overall better LA year-round, not overly humid weather in most months,
it's also my opinion that all schools (all types, ages, on average) are better in LA than in MIA?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on February 19, 2014, 12:42:19 AM
All good and fine, but from my seat in this miserable winter I'm looking forward to a fantastic summer.
The NYC guys are looking forward to escaping the miserable summer there in their upstate bungalows.
And the MIA guys are enjoying the outdoors before the miserable summer hits-though at least their restaurants will be less crowded as nobody wants to be in MIA in the summer.

Meanwhile the LA guys are laughing at all of us.  They have amazing weather now and they will in the summer as well.

So I ask again.  Why uproot myself from a place with 6 months of great weather and 6 months of crap for the exact same thing flipped.
We can cope with the winter just like you can cope with the summer. It's called staying indoors.  Though I find it easier to bundle up in a ridiculous parka and some uggs than to strip down and walk about like that's normal.
Only 5 months of what accuweather calls "poor day for outdoor fitness" weather this year. Other years it's only 3-4 months... And the kids love the snow...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 12:42:24 AM
Disagree. I'd take 70s/50s over a humid 80s/70s as a nice change in season.  But I can see people preferring MIA in the winter.

Overall (what I meant by year-round assuming you're not a snow bird) there's just no comparison.

Wintertime, the humidity in MIA isn't that much more than LA. It could get chilly in LA though. A side point benefit of the weather is the virtual nonexistence of pot-holes in MIA.
Let's not get into LA traffic........

Year-round, I completely agree with you.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 12:46:45 AM
It could get chilly in LA though. A side point benefit of the weather is the virtual nonexistence of pot-holes in MIA.
Let's not get into LA traffic........
Year-round, I completely agree with you.
Love those 2 days of 40 degree weather when everyone takes out there down parkas in LA :D

LA does have worse traffic, though the restaurants are all condensed on Pico (except for TS) so arguably that's less of a big deal than MIA where the great eateries are spread out from SoBe to Boca.

Without a doubt the biggest plus for MIA is cost of living/taxes.  I'm just not sure it's worth it for someone from CLE to move to when the upside (winter) is cancelled out by the down (summer).

Gosh I would love to be a snowbird and spend 182 days in CLE and 183 days in MIA. No taxes and best of both worlds for weather.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 12:46:49 AM
it's also my opinion that all schools (all types, ages, on average) are better in LA than in MIA?

You sorta have a point there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 19, 2014, 12:48:41 AM
Wintertime, the humidity in MIA isn't that much more than LA. It could get chilly in LA though. A side point benefit of the weather is the virtual nonexistence of pot-holes in MIA.
Let's not get into LA traffic........

Year-round, I completely agree with you.
+1
Depends where you work/
  Distance, etc..
MIA and LA can both have a one hour commute, or if you work a few blocks away - a 5 minute commute.
Same with restaurants. They can be nearby or with included traffic.
Now that you mention it, however, it's possible that school carpools/transportation may be longer in one city or another -- however, I suppose that's true everywhere....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 12:49:26 AM
Love those 2 days of 40 degree weather when everyone takes out there down parkas in LA :D

And those days of sub 60 degree weather when everyone in MIA sports a sweater and scarf(older guys an overcoat)........
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 19, 2014, 12:53:14 AM
You sorta have a point there.
+100

YES! That's what makes the 40% - 60+% higher mortgages seem worth it -- Better chinuch, IMO, of all ages.

(I wrote it with hesitation, as the various schooling styles may differ, however, the ones that I'm familiar with
and those of my friends all seem to point to the greater Los Angeles area having an overall higher quality of education across the board.
Of course there are exceptions everywhere, but the main Judaic, General Studies, expectations, standards, etc.... )
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 12:56:55 AM
Has that much changed in chabad education in LA over the past decade?
When I was there it was notoriously awful.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 12:59:06 AM
+100

YES! That's what makes the 40% - 60+% higher mortgages seem worth it -- Better chinuch, IMO, of all ages.

(I wrote it with hesitation, as the various schooling styles may differ, however, the ones that I'm familiar with
and those of my friends all seem to point to the greater Los Angeles area having an overall higher quality of education across the board.
Of course there are exceptions everywhere, but the main Judaic, General Studies, expectations, standards, etc.... )

It's much more than 40-60% btw.

I learned 3 years in LA and seen the chinuch situation from across the board: Lubavitch, Litvish, and Chassidish all have better chinuch options in LA.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 01:01:32 AM
Has that much changed in chabad education in LA over the past decade?
When I was there it was notoriously awful.

R Greenbaum turned the whole Cheder Menachem around and partnered up with Menachem Education Foundation, an organization in CH that trains principals and teachers.

The Rosh made a major overhaul 10 years ago with Zal's situation. It's currently one of the best Zals around.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on February 19, 2014, 01:02:59 AM

Let's not get into LA traffic........

If you know how to avoid rush hour, LA traffic is really nothing to write home about.
Of course sometimes school/work timing makes that impossible
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 01:05:14 AM
R Greenbaum turned the whole Cheder Menachem around and partnered up with Menachem Education Foundation, an organization in CH that trains principals and teachers.

The Rosh made a major overhaul 10 years ago with Zal's situation. It's currently one of the best Zals around.
I came with the incredible group of guys from Chicago in '01 that turned around the zal there.
But the mesivta was still a disaster back then. Has it improved?
Girls chabad high school also was nothing to brag about back then.

If you know how to avoid rush hour, LA traffic is really nothing to write home about.
You know. Those minor hours of 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on February 19, 2014, 01:07:07 AM

You know. Those minor hours of 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm.

I drive Pico to La brea in the mornings and vice versa in the afternoons. I get to laugh and wave at the suckers stuck in traffic going the opposite way.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 19, 2014, 01:10:13 AM
Has that much changed in chabad education in LA over the past decade?
When I was there it was notoriously awful.
it seems that the biggest increase in the quality of the overall Chabad education in LA
has been in the past 12 years.... It's obviously a process which takes time -- the students
may be introduced to higher standards when they are in 2nd grade, however, it could take 8 years until 10th
grade to see a noticeble difference in community standards and a bit more time to be huge enough make a city-wide impact.

Opinions can run the entire gamut, however, the facts on the ground show that it's worked, overall.
Some objective areas (I do not live there; but we have a lot of family there and we travel there a few times a year - "Thanks Dan!")

The Boys K - 8 school had a "new" principal (for the past 12-15 years?) who is dynamic, focused, and completely committed to improving the school,
the curriculum and the standards.
I believe that he works together with a network of other schools who have made this a priority as well...
There are also the Diamond Daveners groups in La Brea where the "Junior Minyan" in Bais Levi Yitzchok has a very organized,
structured age-based davening and activities program on Shabbos.
They've had Shabbatons and extra-curricular, supplemental trips during the week/weekend.
Pico has a similar type of system, I've heard.

The Bais Menachem shul has youth groups, child care, Mommy & Me positive growth social settings...
All these contribute to chinuch and family as being a focus and priority for raising the next generation...
When they are cared for, it truly helps the community to be a place where people want to invest for the long term.


Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 01:13:21 AM
I came with the incredible group of guys from Chicago in '01 that turned around the zal there.
But the mesivta was still a disaster back then. Has it improved?
Girls chabad high school also was nothing to brag about back then.
You know. Those minor hours of 6am-10am and 3pm-7pm.

Shiur Alef was always known as the "non-chassidish" shiur(it was a 'yerusha' from mesivta) until '04-5, when the Rosh virtually kicked out half the yeshiva. He became much more stricter with acceptance. The new building was then completed.

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.

BTW Dan, tomorrow CLE is having a major simcha in MIA.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 19, 2014, 01:15:39 AM
Shiur Alef was always known as the "non-chassidish" shiur(it was a 'yerusha' from mesivta) until '04-5, when the Rosh virtually kicked out half the yeshiva. He became much more stricter with acceptance. The new building was then completed.

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.

BTW Dan, tomorrow CLE is having a major simcha in MIA.
Yup, I was there in '03 the rosh kicked out the entire shiur alef (i.e. the once who came up through the local mesivta). 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 19, 2014, 01:17:43 AM
Shiur Alef was always known as the "non-chassidish" shiur(it was a 'yerusha' from mesivta) until '04-5, when the Rosh virtually kicked out half the yeshiva. He became much more stricter with acceptance. The new building was then completed.

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.

BTW Dan, tomorrow CLE is having a major simcha in MIA.

He became much more stricter with acceptance.
...is that possible?...

The girls high school wasn't ever chicago caliber, but we're comparing to MIA.  -- funnnnnyyyy  8)



Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 01:21:19 AM
He became much more stricter with acceptance.
...is that possible?...

He started then making any prospective bochur come for the summer program as a trial. Half didn't pass.....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yungerman on February 19, 2014, 01:23:09 AM
The LA mesivta is still better IMHO than Miami's. It's also MUCH larger.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 20, 2014, 12:36:16 AM
The Bais Menachem shul has youth groups, child care, Mommy & Me positive growth social settings...
All these contribute to chinuch and family as being a focus and priority for raising the next generation...
When they are cared for, it truly helps the community to be a place where people want to invest for the long term.
You're joking, right?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 20, 2014, 12:48:00 AM
You're joking, right?
about what -- the Shaarei Tefilla location on Beverly?

Great group, nice Kiddushim, awesome Rabbi (imo), and the parents can bring their children
to the upstairs remodeled rooms for learning, playing, and being present during Shabbos morning minyanim. Also, aren't there family-style
events, Purim, summer BBQs, etc..? When parents and children spend time together doing
activities and promoting  group/family events, then it shows that this is valued....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 20, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
Great group, nice Kiddushim, awesome Rabbi (imo),
Agreed.

and the parents can bring their children
to the upstairs remodeled rooms for learning, playing, and being present during Shabbos morning minyanim. Also, aren't there family-style
events, Purim, summer BBQs, etc..? When parents and children spend time together doing
activities and promoting  group/family events, then it shows that this is valued....
Yes, that is a big plus. I like it there, I daven there whenever I'm in LA. That being said:
I was referring specifically to the "chinuch" aspect in the sense that in general (many of the parents in) that shul are not exactly dugma chayas of how a chossid should look and behave...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 20, 2014, 01:17:14 AM
Agreed.
Yes, that is a big plus. I like it there, I daven there whenever I'm in LA. That being said:
I was referring specifically to the "chinuch" aspect in the sense that in general (many of the parents in) that shul are not exactly dugma chayas of how a chossid should look and behave...
+1
Yes, huge plus and a comfortable, welcoming place to daven.
I understand what you are respectfully saying --
and, seeing the trends over the past few years and what the various options, outcomes, and possibilities could be,
what is objectively apparent is that there is a solid, positive, personable group of people that attend Minyan weekly
and show their families that this is what we do.

The: 
dugma chayas of how a chossid should look and behave..
 
is another issue - mainly chitzonius,
...it's generally best to see and learn from the ma'alos of a person and their actions. These actions in this cases have been
positively connected to Yiddishkeit and iy"H it will continue to be encouraged and grow. B"H to have such a great option and location in LA!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 20, 2014, 01:38:51 AM
mainly chitzonius,
No comment.

I'm not trying to bash BM / Shaarei Tefillah, just pointing out that it's indicative of what's wrong with LA in general...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on February 20, 2014, 02:18:26 AM
No comment.
I'm not trying to bash BM / Shaarei Tefillah, just pointing out that it's indicative of what's wrong with LA in general...
I understand;
however, do you agree that this is a positive option?
much better than not having an alternative, and that it has the potential to spur growth in Chassidishkiet and an ongoing overall great, personable atmosphere?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 20, 2014, 02:58:49 PM
Anyone here familiar with Chicago (West Rogers Park) housing situation?
What's available rental-wise? What does it cost to buy a house?

Other than the weather, what are the cons of Chicago?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on February 20, 2014, 03:21:36 PM
Anyone here familiar with Chicago (West Rogers Park) housing situation?
Costs more than CLE, less than NYC...

Other than the weather, what are the cons of Chicago?
Traffic can be horrendous.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 20, 2014, 03:39:48 PM
Costs more than CLE, less than NYC...
lol
That much I figured out on my own, I was kinda hoping for something a little more detailed :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: 3yummyboys on February 25, 2014, 10:46:20 AM


Frankly I wonder why so many Jews stay in NYC. I understand family is often a big part of where you live and many Jews got off the boat in NYC and simply haven't desired to venture any farther out, but is it really worth it?



I've been asking myself the same question with this crazy winter. Why would anyone live in NY? (spoken by someone who's lived in NY my entire life!) On the other hand, as opposed to living out of town, we have a ton of schools to choose from and can send our kids to the school of our choice. We have the convenience of 20 shuls within a 10 minute drive from our  house, basically a minyan at any time, tons of kosher restaurants and supermarkets to choose from and a variety of frum communities of every type.
Although I have to admit after being in LA last week, I was really tempted to move ...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on February 28, 2014, 12:22:41 AM
So I've gotten more speeding tickets in my one day in CLE than in my previous 10 years in NYC...

The curse of the Photo DOs.
>:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shkop on April 06, 2014, 06:55:10 PM
Too much talk about LA/MIA/NY/NJ/CLE etc

Broaden your horizons. Think about the Holy Land. Huge Mitzvah? check.

Get to hear kohen's priestly blessing daily (or duchin if you are a kohen)? check.

Get to visit kosel, miaras hamachpeila, kever rachel, gravesites of thousands of great men? Check.

Can choose from a wide variety of communities, including American olim, so that the fit is right? Check

Yes there are challenges, I can run through a whole list of them, but the Holy Land is nikne biyisurin.

Nothing beats Israel ever.



Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on April 06, 2014, 07:00:54 PM
You probably meant to say "Eretz Yisrael".
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: HP58 on April 06, 2014, 07:04:47 PM
You probably meant to say "Eretz Yisrael".
ALOL! ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shkop on April 06, 2014, 07:09:50 PM
You probably meant to say "Eretz Yisrael".
I think I meant to say Israel, let me check.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on April 06, 2014, 07:10:50 PM
Too much talk about LA/MIA/NY/NJ/CLE etc

Broaden your horizons. Think about the Holy Land. Huge Mitzvah? check.

Get to hear kohen's priestly blessing daily (or duchin if you are a kohen)? check.

Get to visit kosel, miaras hamachpeila, kever rachel, gravesites of thousands of great men? Check.

Can choose from a wide variety of communities, including American olim, so that the fit is right? Check

Yes there are challenges, I can run through a whole list of them, but the Holy Land is nikne biyisurin.

Nothing beats Israel ever.

One of my main reasons for having such a hard time deciding to live in Israel is the lack of finding a community where I feel as though I belong. Not that I'm at the place where I'd want to move right now anyways but it's always on my mind.
I love Israel.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on April 06, 2014, 07:14:33 PM
I think I meant to say Israel, let me check.
Huge Mitzvah? check.

???
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on April 17, 2014, 06:51:09 PM
Anyone have anything to add about Houston?

There is really very little info that I found earlier in the thread.

Is there a Chabad community out there or just modern orthodox?

I know there is a Chabad school but is it a "shaliach" school or for the frum community?

Any other general info would be greatly appreciated!




Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 17, 2014, 06:53:57 PM
Isn't the school there mixed?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on April 17, 2014, 06:56:39 PM
Isn't the school there mixed?

I think mixed till 4th grade only.

Do you know any more about the community?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 17, 2014, 07:23:33 PM
Nope, way too hot/humid to ever consider.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on April 17, 2014, 07:33:34 PM
Nope, way too hot/humid to ever consider.

Houston makes Florida look like a joke. It's unreal. I will repeat that. It's poshut unreal. I've been there twice in Tammuz. Once I even went there straight from Venezuela and I still felt that way.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on April 17, 2014, 08:05:27 PM
Thanks guys for the weather comments but that info is readily available online.

I know there are cons to living there.
Otherwise most of the NY and LA communities probably would've been transplanted.

I am trying out to find out more info specifically about the community and so on.

If anyone can share anything in that department it would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: RJ898 on April 17, 2014, 11:47:13 PM
Houston has the nicest and friendliest community you'll probably ever find. Southern hospitality is a real thing.
The Chabad school is mixed till either 3rd or 4th grade.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on April 18, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
Do you know any specifics ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on April 18, 2014, 01:22:32 AM
Thanks guys for the weather comments but that info is readily available online.

I know there are cons to living there.
Otherwise most of the NY and LA communities probably would've been transplanted.

I am trying out to find out more info specifically about the community and so on.

If anyone can share anything in that department it would be greatly appreciated!

I don't know where in LA you live but I am guessing you pay 3 or 4k a month in rent for a place that is too small for your growing family.

In Houston, you can buy a 4 br house with a pool for $180k. You could get an FHA loan and with one month of LA rent, put down a down payment and even with PMI pay a mortgage that would look more like a car payment.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on April 18, 2014, 01:29:20 AM
Dallas a growing community. I can't see why you'd prefer Houston over that (unless you have issues w Barto).

Cost of living is definitely extremely low. And you still have the benefit of being in a major city. That being said savings compared to Miami are pretty small.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on April 18, 2014, 01:32:41 AM
Don't know who or what "bar to" is but my understanding is that Dallas is litvish and/or modern orthodox. I really am looking for a Chabad community
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on April 18, 2014, 01:38:31 AM
Don't know who or what "bar to" is but my understanding is that Dallas is litvish and/or modern orthodox. I really am looking for a Chabad community

Houston is not a chabad "community." It's a dozen families, many of whom have adult children who got married to other Lubavitchers and decided to stay in Houston. But don't confuse that with an anash community. There is ONE shul for anash. The rest of the "nusach ari" minyanim in the city are all Chabad Houses for mekurovim.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Vosizderneias on April 18, 2014, 01:42:43 AM

Houston is not a chabad "community." It's a dozen families, many of whom have adult children who got married to other Lubavitchers and decided to stay in Houston. But don't confuse that with an anash community. There is ONE shul for anash. The rest of the "nusach ari" minyanim in the city are all Chabad Houses for mekurovim.
there are lots of younger couple in Houston, counting some of the shluchim also...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on April 18, 2014, 01:49:04 AM
Houston is not a chabad "community." It's a dozen families, many of whom have adult children who got married to other Lubavitchers and decided to stay in Houston. But don't confuse that with an anash community. There is ONE shul for anash. The rest of the "nusach ari" minyanim in the city are all Chabad Houses for mekurovim.
are you saying that one shul is a Chabad house type shul or is it an "anash" shul ? I knew its not an LA/NY community but is it really only a dozen or so Chabad families ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: shiframeir on April 18, 2014, 03:50:07 AM
i have some familiarity with Chabad (friends, shuls and schools i've been around) but i have no idea what ANASH is, and hard to find out on google. what is it (an acrostic for something?)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on April 18, 2014, 04:07:25 AM
Short for Anshei Shloieminu aka Unzer
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 18, 2014, 09:54:59 AM
Basically people who have a beard and wear a kapota on shabbos...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on April 18, 2014, 12:09:23 PM
Basically people who have a beard and wear a kapota on shabbos...
does benei brak qualify
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 18, 2014, 12:13:37 PM
does benei brak qualify
Kapota as opposed to a bekeshe, etc.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ChAiM'l on April 18, 2014, 12:23:02 PM
Kapota as opposed to a bekeshe frock, etc.

FTFY
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on April 18, 2014, 12:37:09 PM
FTFY
Hence the etc ;)
Title: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: ReadsTheT&C on April 28, 2014, 11:07:15 AM
Cleveland #2, yashar koach Dan!
http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/the-most-affordable-places-in-the-us-to-raise-your-committed-jewish-family/
Title: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: AJK on April 28, 2014, 10:16:35 PM
Cleveland #2, yashar koach Dan!
http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/the-most-affordable-places-in-the-us-to-raise-your-committed-jewish-family/

Just came across this article, and came here to post. Beat me!

Interesting list, but I can't say it's hard to argue with it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jj1000 on May 02, 2014, 12:55:28 PM
Very interesting gallup pole, 50% of Illinois residents want to move out.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/heres-a-big-map-that-shows-you-how-badly-everyone-around-you?bffb

http://www.gallup.com/poll/168770/half-illinois-connecticut-move-elsewhere.aspx
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on May 04, 2014, 12:24:39 AM
Does anyone have info on the chassidishe group looking to move to Staten Island
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: notanonymous on May 04, 2014, 12:35:44 AM
Does anyone have info on the chassidishe group looking to move to Staten Island
That's funny.  Mamash as you posted this, my shver was showing me the article in the Ami.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on May 04, 2014, 12:40:17 AM
Does anyone have info on the chassidishe group looking to move to Staten Island
they're not looking,  they're moving. Some already bought houses. A neighbor of mine bought there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on May 04, 2014, 01:08:56 AM
they're not looking,  they're moving. Some already bought houses. A neighbor of mine bought there.
Are they all from one kehilla or is it a diverse group ? & is the neighborhood there ok with chasidim moving in ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on May 04, 2014, 02:01:54 AM
Very interesting gallup pole, 50% of Illinois residents want to move out.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/heres-a-big-map-that-shows-you-how-badly-everyone-around-you?bffb

http://www.gallup.com/poll/168770/half-illinois-connecticut-move-elsewhere.aspx

Chicago generally rates very high on the "misery index."

Funny thing though, most Chicago people never move out, they just wish they could. It's an easy place to get trapped.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on May 04, 2014, 02:12:50 AM

Are they all from one kehilla or is it a diverse group ? & is the neighborhood there ok with chasidim moving in ?
1) diverse group
2) good question
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on May 04, 2014, 03:57:58 AM
Looks like New Yorkers are prouder than Clevelanders after all. Or is it the Cincinnatians who ruined the poll...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/168653/montanans-alaskans-say-states-among-top-places-live.aspx?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on May 04, 2014, 08:21:56 AM
Looks like New Yorkers are prouder than Clevelanders after all. Or is it the Cincinnatians who ruined the poll...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/168653/montanans-alaskans-say-states-among-top-places-live.aspx?
Polling by state is a ridiculous way to judge, any given city has much more in common with other states than they do with most of their own.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on May 04, 2014, 10:18:38 AM
Looks like New Yorkers are prouder than Clevelanders after all. Or is it the Cincinnatians who ruined the poll...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/168653/montanans-alaskans-say-states-among-top-places-live.aspx?
Let's put this in perspective - Alaska beat out Hawaii by 9%. This tells you more about how good a fit a state is for its actual residents, not how good a state is in general. The top 10 are all among the least populous states (Texas being the exception).
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 04, 2014, 10:34:54 AM
Let's put this in perspective - Alaska beat out Hawaii by 9%. This tells you more about how good a fit a state is for its actual residents, not how good a state is in general. The top 10 are all among the least populous states (Texas being the exception).
Maybe that tells you more about the herd mentality of people who feel like they need to live in the city when really they would be happier living on a ranch in Wyoming.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on May 04, 2014, 10:36:01 AM
Let's put this in perspective - Alaska beat out Hawaii by 9%. This tells you more about how good a fit a state is for its actual residents, not how good a state is in general.
Last I checked this thread was about how good a fit a state is for its residents and not how good a state is in general...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on May 04, 2014, 10:47:19 AM
Last I checked this thread was about how good a fit a state is for its residents and not how good a state is in general...
The point being that the people who would enjoy living in Alaska are a very small minority of the overall population. Hence it's silly to say to your average Joe, people who live in Alaska love it, you should move there too.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on May 04, 2014, 01:58:23 PM

That's funny.  Mamash as you posted this, my shver was showing me the article in the Ami.
is it possible to upload the article here
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 26, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/real_estate/home-buying-salary/index.html?iid=Lead
Code: [Select]
Metro area Median home price Annual salary you need to buy
Cleveland $102,100 $29,800
Pittsburgh $120,000 $30,200
St Louis $120,500 $31,300
Cincinnati $121,700 $31,900
Detroit $110,750 $32,300
Atlanta $141,900 $34,200
Tampa, Fla. $145,000 $36,400
Phoenix $194,300 $41,300
Orlando, Fla. $178,000 $43,200
San Antonio       $169,300  $44,500
Minneapolis $188,200 $45,700
Dallas          $174,800  $47,700
Houston $184,600 $49,000
Philadelphia $201,800 $50,500
Chicago $176,900 $52,900
Baltimore $224,500 $53,100
Sacramento, Calif. $255,800 $58,100
Miami $259,000 $59,700
Denver $288,400 $59,900
Portland, Ore. $271,900 $60,300
Seattle $339,900 $73,900
Washington D.C. $358,900 $78,500
Boston $363,200 $79,800
Los Angeles $406,200 $86,000
New York $388,900 $89,800
San Diego $483,000 $98,500
San Francisco $679,800 $137,100
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on May 26, 2014, 08:43:18 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/real_estate/home-buying-salary/index.html?iid=Lead
Code: [Select]
Metro area Median home price Annual salary you need to buy
Cleveland $102,100 $29,800
Pittsburgh $120,000 $30,200
St Louis $120,500 $31,300
Cincinnati $121,700 $31,900
Detroit $110,750 $32,300
Atlanta $141,900 $34,200
Tampa, Fla. $145,000 $36,400
Phoenix $194,300 $41,300
Orlando, Fla. $178,000 $43,200
San Antonio       $169,300  $44,500
Minneapolis $188,200 $45,700
Dallas          $174,800  $47,700
Houston $184,600 $49,000
Philadelphia $201,800 $50,500
Chicago $176,900 $52,900
Baltimore $224,500 $53,100
Sacramento, Calif. $255,800 $58,100
Miami $259,000 $59,700
Denver $288,400 $59,900
Portland, Ore. $271,900 $60,300
Seattle $339,900 $73,900
Washington D.C. $358,900 $78,500
Boston $363,200 $79,800
Los Angeles $406,200 $86,000
New York $388,900 $89,800
San Diego $483,000 $98,500
San Francisco $679,800 $137,100
Wow.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on May 26, 2014, 08:58:47 AM
Cleveland    $102,100    $29,800


Whens the next flight?  :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on May 26, 2014, 09:02:12 AM
Home size and land size in Atlanta and Tampa will probably be smaller than home size and land size in Cleveland and Cinncinatti at those rates.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on May 26, 2014, 09:03:02 AM
You'd be hard pressed to find a home for 1/2 a million in the frum neighborhoods of LA!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on May 26, 2014, 10:44:46 AM
You'd be hard pressed to find a home for 1/2 a million in the frum neighborhoods of LA!
Not in Pico or LA Brea you won't. Maybe in Calabasas or Agura...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on May 26, 2014, 10:51:46 AM
Not in Pico or LA Brea you won't. Maybe in Calabasas or Agura...
Hmm... A quick zillow search shows prices more along the lines of 600-900,000... but I guess it's possible.
Then again, who wants to live in Calabasas or Agoura  :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on May 26, 2014, 11:32:54 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/real_estate/home-buying-salary/index.html?iid=Lead
Code: [Select]
Metro area Median home price Annual salary you need to buy
Cleveland $102,100 $29,800
Pittsburgh $120,000 $30,200
St Louis $120,500 $31,300
Cincinnati $121,700 $31,900
Detroit $110,750 $32,300
Atlanta $141,900 $34,200
Tampa, Fla. $145,000 $36,400
Phoenix $194,300 $41,300
Orlando, Fla. $178,000 $43,200
San Antonio       $169,300  $44,500
Minneapolis $188,200 $45,700
Dallas          $174,800  $47,700
Houston $184,600 $49,000
Philadelphia $201,800 $50,500
Chicago $176,900 $52,900
Baltimore $224,500 $53,100
Sacramento, Calif. $255,800 $58,100
Miami $259,000 $59,700
Denver $288,400 $59,900
Portland, Ore. $271,900 $60,300
Seattle $339,900 $73,900
Washington D.C. $358,900 $78,500
Boston $363,200 $79,800
Los Angeles $406,200 $86,000
New York $388,900 $89,800
San Diego $483,000 $98,500
San Francisco $679,800 $137,100

So CLE is cheapest and PIT is second cheapest, huh? Pretty cool.

I'd just like to add that those are median prices per city. The actual discrepancy can be a lot more. As people are noting, a median house price in LA may be HALF of what it costs in a frum neighborhood in LA.

In other words, the difference between Pittsburgh where I live and New York is not just $120,000 and $388,900 which is $268,000. No, the real difference is when you look IN each city what it really costs to be in the frum neighborhood. I can get a 4 br in Squirrel Hill for $280,000. In Crown Heights, I would have to spend 700-800k just for a house that needs to be gutted.

But of course, all you NYers will complain on this thread but ultimately only 1 out of 1,000 of you will ever be able to tear yourself away from NY. And even if you do, it will only be to move to South Florida with all the other NYers.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 26, 2014, 12:44:46 PM
True. A 60K salary spread is really 120K when you figure that houses in frum areas carry a 100% premium over median. 
180K spread for a 200% premium.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on May 26, 2014, 01:02:03 PM
True. A 60K salary spread is really 120K when you figure that houses in frum areas carry a 100% premium over median. 
180K spread for a 200% premium.
Home prices are more of a barrier to entry than an actual cost of living. If you have $500k and buy a $500k house, your net worth is the same as if you had $500k and bought a $100k house (transaction costs notwithstanding). More relevant for comparison to salary would be things like taxes, total interest saved over the mortgage term, and other non-housing related costs of living.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on May 26, 2014, 01:03:06 PM
Home prices are more of a barrier to entry than an actual cost of living. If you have $500k and buy a $500k house, your net worth is the same as if you had $500k and bought a $100k house (transaction costs notwithstanding). More relevant for comparison to salary would be things like taxes, total interest saved over the mortgage term, and other non-housing related costs of living.
like tuition
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 26, 2014, 01:05:35 PM
Home prices are more of a barrier to entry than an actual cost of living. If you have $500k and buy a $500k house, your net worth is the same as if you had $500k and bought a $100k house (transaction costs notwithstanding). More relevant for comparison to salary would be things like taxes, total interest saved over the mortgage term, and other non-housing related costs of living.
Except that people in LA can't afford housing and spent their lives renting.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on May 28, 2014, 08:42:09 AM
In Houston, a four bedroom house in the jewish area is under 150k. I have seen a couple houses there for sale when ive been there. O, and u can have a pool.

One day, one day....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 09:24:12 AM
In Houston, a four bedroom house in the jewish area is under 150k. I have seen a couple houses there for sale when ive been there. O, and u can have a pool.

One day, one day....
You need that pool to escape the brutal summer ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 09:29:02 AM
Even if it's a hot summer...

A four+ bedroom house with a pool for 150K AND no state income tax AND a decent size Jewish community that is growing every year.

Tough to beat.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on May 28, 2014, 09:29:52 AM
And a Republican big state...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 09:51:21 AM
Even if it's a hot summer...

A four+ bedroom house with a pool for 150K AND no state income tax AND a decent size Jewish community that is growing every year.

Tough to beat.
Do they have non-gender mixed schools?

And a Republican big state...
Who cares?
Better in FL or OH, the states that decide who will be president every 4 years.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 11:09:17 AM
Do they have non-gender mixed schools?

Interested in an answer to that as well, for both Houston and Dallas.

I believe Yavneh (in Dallas) and Beren (in Houston) are both co-ed.

Not sure about the rest.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on May 28, 2014, 11:14:20 AM
Chabad school in Houston is coed thru 4th grade. Competition for homes is fierce. Super low inventory. For a 4 bedroom expect to pay around 200k to 225k.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 11:16:42 AM
Chabad school in Houston is coed thru 4th grade. Competition for homes is fierce. Super low inventory. For a 4 bedroom expect to pay around 200k to 225k.

Ha. Even that is paltry by comparison to NYC/NJ.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on May 28, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
Yep. No comparison.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on May 28, 2014, 11:25:22 AM
Chabad school in Houston is coed thru 4th grade. Competition for homes is fierce. Super low inventory. For a 4 bedroom expect to pay around 200k to 225k.

Unless you live there, i believe you are wrong. I have seen a few houses there for 150k (this was a year ago)

for more info: http://www.relocatehouston.org/

They have a frum school in Houston that is mixed till 4th and then separate (not chabad). Chabad also has a school. I have been to both.

Even if it's a hot summer...

A four+ bedroom house with a pool for 150K AND no state income tax AND a decent size Jewish community that is growing every year.

Tough to beat.

Yup! The cost of living there is really low.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 11:41:26 AM
Unless you live there, i believe you are wrong. I have seen a few houses there for 150k (this was a year ago)

for more info: http://www.relocatehouston.org/

They have a frum school in Houston that is mixed till 4th and then separate (not chabad). Chabad also has a school. I have been to both.

Yup! The cost of living there is really low.

Which school in Houston is only mixed till 4th?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on May 28, 2014, 11:44:29 AM
Which school in Houston is only mixed till 4th?

I dont recall the name but its in a strip mall next door to wal mart. If you need more info you can use the site above (i posted the link) and im sure they can help you.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 11:48:25 AM
I stopped reading after the last word of the first sentence.

I'm in!   ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 11:51:30 AM
Unreal.

Quote
Are there apartments or  homes for rent?

Yes, there are a number of 1-2 bedroom apartments and 3 bedroom 'patio' homes for rent within the eruv. A patio home is a smaller, starter home that does not have a full size yard. 1-2 bedroom apartments range betwee $500-$800 a month and 3 bedroom patio homes start at around $1300/month. The apartments average between 700 - 1000 square feet, and the 3 bedroom patio homes range from 1800-2400 square feet.


AND:

(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/4bd590_c63017814e8542eda584b15ecb333ec5.jpg_srz_p_618_1023_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on May 28, 2014, 11:58:58 AM
Unreal.


AND:

(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/4bd590_c63017814e8542eda584b15ecb333ec5.jpg_srz_p_618_1023_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)

Dont forget Houston was rated the top place in America for jobs....

I was in downtown Houston. They have massive firms in building as big as NYC. Just no traffic or smell.  :o
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: EP123 on May 28, 2014, 01:01:58 PM
Texas jobs that are available are not really Jewish jobs per se, there are tons of jobs if you are up to drilling wells, operating heavy equipment or driving rigs. For the rest of us there is churning credit cards
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 28, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Texas jobs that are available are not really Jewish jobs per se, there are tons of jobs if you are up to drilling wells, operating heavy equipment or driving rigs. For the rest of us there is churning credit cards
Houston has plenty of room for some nice Jewish doctors...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: cozmohoot on May 28, 2014, 01:45:11 PM
My bil left Houston for woodmere ny and he is a Dr..... Kids chinuch was the main reason I believe.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yakovwogi on May 28, 2014, 02:14:50 PM
My bil left Houston for woodmere ny and he is a Dr..... Kids chinuch was the main reason I believe.
The school is very good--I have two kids there and a third going into preschool next year.
http://www.tetx.org/ (http://www.tetx.org/)

They are in the middle of construction on a 4 mil building seconds away from the main young frum community.
Should be ready by september.
School is mixed until 4th grade now, but as the classes grow and need to be split they will be splitting the grades by gender from the beginning.

Great place to live IMHO


Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on May 28, 2014, 02:44:50 PM
I'm guessing not too many chassidim live there
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: EP123 on May 28, 2014, 02:51:46 PM
Does anyone have any info about the new gated community being built in south florida (ives dairy/aventura)?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 02:58:50 PM
The school is very good--I have two kids there and a third going into preschool next year.
http://www.tetx.org/ (http://www.tetx.org/)

They are in the middle of construction on a 4 mil building seconds away from the main young frum community.
Should be ready by september.
School is mixed until 4th grade now, but as the classes grow and need to be split they will be splitting the grades by gender from the beginning.

Great place to live IMHO

What about for ashkenazim?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yakovwogi on May 28, 2014, 04:49:08 PM
What about for ashkenazim?
Its a regular out of town day school.
When they wanted to start it they needed an "excuse" to break from the status quo of having one mixed school following a more modern hashkafa, so they called it a sephardic school.
It is regular torah umesorah day school.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 05:01:30 PM
Its a regular out of town day school.
When they wanted to start it they needed an "excuse" to break from the status quo of having one mixed school following a more modern hashkafa, so they called it a sephardic school.
It is regular torah umesorah day school.

Ah, thanks.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on May 28, 2014, 05:46:11 PM
The school is very good--I have two kids there and a third going into preschool next year.
http://www.tetx.org/ (http://www.tetx.org/)

They are in the middle of construction on a 4 mil building seconds away from the main young frum community.
Should be ready by september.
School is mixed until 4th grade now, but as the classes grow and need to be split they will be splitting the grades by gender from the beginning.

Great place to live IMHO

+100

I was very impressed with the school and overall community!! Great kosher pizza shop too!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 28, 2014, 05:47:21 PM
What about for ashkenazim?
Fuhgetaboutit! You'll burn after 5 minutes in the sun :))
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on May 28, 2014, 05:52:34 PM
Fuhgetaboutit! You'll burn after 5 minutes in the sun :))

Not burn. Melt.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on May 28, 2014, 06:00:27 PM
Fuhgetaboutit! You'll burn after 5 minutes in the sun :))

With the money I'd be saving, I could buy a lifetime's worth of sunscreen AND a portable nuclear-powered A/C and still come out wayyy ahead.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: yakovwogi on May 28, 2014, 06:04:39 PM
With the money I'd be saving, I could buy a lifetime's worth of sunscreen AND a portable nuclear-powered A/C and still come out wayyy ahead.
+10000
or just buy a house with a pool like we did..








Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 06:35:55 PM
Am I the only one that would rather have a pleasant summer and unpleasant winter over a pleasant winter and unpleasant summer?

I mean I can bundle up pretty good in the winter and be just fine, but ain't nobody wanna see me walking around half naked.

Now you east coast folk, you get hosed in both seasons and pay $$$$ for it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on May 28, 2014, 06:50:18 PM
Am I the only one that would rather have a pleasant summer and unpleasant winter over a pleasant winter and unpleasant summer?

I mean I can bundle up pretty good in the winter and be just fine, but ain't nobody wanna see me walking around half naked.
Your definitely not the only one as I have heard that argument before. But I, for one, still prefer a hot summer over a cold winter.

Those 9 hour grey cold days just give me the creeps...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 06:54:27 PM
Your definitely not the only one as I have heard that argument before. But I, for one, still prefer a hot summer over a cold winter.

Those 9 hour grey cold days just give me the creeps...
And 100 degree weather dripping with humidity doesn't?
Is there a better smell than walking by a house in the winter with a wood burning fireplace going?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: cozmohoot on May 28, 2014, 07:03:57 PM
And 100 degree weather dripping with humidity doesn't?
Is there a better smell than walking by a house in the winter with a wood burning fireplace going?
wood burning fireplaces exist? Thought it was only in the movies. Yup I'm from Brooklyn :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on May 28, 2014, 07:09:11 PM
And 100 degree weather dripping with humidity doesn't?
It sure ain't comfortable, but I'd still take it over a <0 nasty winter weather.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 07:24:25 PM
wood burning fireplaces exist? Thought it was only in the movies. Yup I'm from Brooklyn :)
Lol, I walk out from my house and the smell is heavenly. My favorite part of winter.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 07:25:25 PM
It sure ain't comfortable, but I'd still take it over a <0 nasty winter weather.
Maybe. From NYC it's a no-brainer as summer stinks and when snow comes the city shuts down.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: george on May 28, 2014, 07:26:08 PM
It sure ain't comfortable, but I'd still take it over a <0 nasty winter weather.
+1
Too hot/humid is much better than too cold/snowy.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: george on May 28, 2014, 07:28:23 PM
Maybe. From NYC it's a no-brainer as summer stinks and when snow comes the city shuts down.
Hyperbole. Most days are pleasant, some days are overly hot/humid.
Snow shut down the city once in December 2010. Other than that, snow is part of life in the winter but it sure does not shut the city down.

Disclaimer: I lived in NYC for 12 years, but I have been living elsewhere for the past 14 years. I have no bias toward defending NYC weather for the heck of it.  :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on May 28, 2014, 07:29:21 PM
And 100 degree weather dripping with humidity doesn't?
Is there a better smell than walking by a house in the winter with a wood burning fireplace going?
Lot's of people have wood burning fireplace in LA, too. ;D As soon as winter starts people start up their fireplaces. It combines your almost heavenly favorite part of winter with warm weather; you couldn't ask for more (strictly from a weather perspective)!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on May 28, 2014, 07:30:51 PM
Maybe. From NYC it's a no-brainer as summer stinks and when snow comes the city shuts down.
+ You don't even get to enjoy the snowy atmosphere, as it pretty much becomes one big grey slushy chulent after an hour or so on the ground.  :(
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on May 28, 2014, 07:32:40 PM
+1
Too hot/humid is much better than too cold/snowy.
-1.  The only thing I can't stand is humidity. I'd take cold/snow over humid. Heat is not that bad if it doesn't come with humidity.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
-1.  The only thing I can't stand is humidity. I'd take cold/snow over humid. Heat is not that bad if it doesn't come with humidity.
Agreed.
LA would be great, I just can't justify the cost. And the traffic.
Like I said, if only HI had a community. 

Lot's of people have wood burning fireplace in LA, too. ;D As soon as winter starts people start up their fireplaces. It combines your almost heavenly favorite part of winter with warm weather; you couldn't ask for more (strictly from a weather perspective)!
Not the same if it's not cold. Just like Uggs aren't the same if it's not cold.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on May 28, 2014, 07:45:48 PM

Not the same if it's not cold. Just like Uggs aren't the same if it's not cold.
Cold is relative. I'm shivering as soon as it's below 50.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on May 28, 2014, 07:50:23 PM
Cold is relative. I'm shivering as soon as it's below 50.
This is why people hate LA people ;)


Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: george on May 28, 2014, 08:55:20 PM
This is why people hate LA people ;)



;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: whYME on May 28, 2014, 08:59:48 PM
Hyperbole. Most days are pleasant, some days are overly hot/humid.
Snow shut down the city once in December 2010. Other than that, snow is part of life in the winter but it sure does not shut the city down.
+1

NY is really only unbearable for a week or two in the winter and a few weeks in the summer. Most of the summer is uncomfortable but not too terrible, not nearly as bad as FL. And what NY'ers call unbearable cold would probably be just an average day for CLE...


I'm not saying the weather is great here, I would probably call it "consistently mediocre," it's usually not that great but it rarely gets really bad either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on May 28, 2014, 09:10:40 PM
+1

NY is really only unbearable for a week or two in the winter and a few weeks in the summer. Most of the summer is uncomfortable but not too terrible, not nearly as bad as FL. And what NY'ers call unbearable cold would probably be just an average day for CLE...


I'm not saying the weather is great here, I would probably call it "consistently mediocre," it's usually not that great but it rarely gets really bad either.
I can't take the stench of garbage during the summer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: MC on May 28, 2014, 09:13:43 PM
Or the subway stations... It's at least ten degrees hotter down there
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: smee123 on May 28, 2014, 10:54:50 PM
Texas jobs that are available are not really Jewish jobs per se, there are tons of jobs if you are up to drilling wells, operating heavy equipment or driving rigs. For the rest of us there is churning credit cards
Is that under finance?  :)
And what about health care??
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: BigDanFan on May 29, 2014, 12:40:13 AM
Or the subway stations... It's at least ten degrees hotter down there
it's sometimes cooler in the deep underground subway stations
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: rots5 on May 29, 2014, 07:34:33 AM
I hate the cold, no such thing as a pleasant winter if theres snow on the ground
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: elit on May 29, 2014, 08:21:32 AM
+1
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: EJB on May 29, 2014, 08:46:03 AM
Some parts of manhattan (eg harlem) are around 10 degrees warmer than the rest even during winter. Plus, you get all the benefits of secondhand "smoke" without the illegality of it.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on May 29, 2014, 09:41:41 AM
I hate the cold, no such thing as a pleasant winter if theres snow on the ground
Seems like this discussion comes up every few months in this thread.  :)

My opinion after having lived in the Northeast for most of my life and moving to S. Florida about a year ago. 4 months of brutal heat is wayyy better than 4 months of brutal cold.

I won't say I don't miss the cold and the smell of wood burning fireplaces a little but that's what wintertime trips to Colorado are for.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2014, 07:19:49 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2014/05/27/the-cities-winning-the-battle-for-information-jobs-2014/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on June 15, 2014, 08:04:32 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2014/05/27/the-cities-winning-the-battle-for-information-jobs-2014/

A CTRL+F with "cleveland" returns 0 results.

Why'd you post?  ;D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2014, 08:06:33 PM
A CTRL+F with "cleveland" returns 0 results.

Why'd you post?  ;D
Lol, meant to post this  ;D
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2014/06/05/shaking-off-the-rust-cleveland-workforce-gets-younger-and-smarter/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on June 18, 2014, 12:11:19 PM
http://www.creditdonkey.com/live-florida.html?fb_action_ids=10154305097030457&fb_action_types=og.likes

Best city to live in Florida: Boca Raton
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shkop on June 18, 2014, 02:58:18 PM
Boca= mouth
Raton=rat

Does the name "Rat's mouths" have any bearing on the city or population? 
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on June 18, 2014, 03:18:30 PM
Boca= mouth
Raton=rat

Does the name "Rat's mouths" have any bearing on the city or population?
Quote
In Spanish "Boca" means "mouth" and "Ratón" means "mouse" (not "rat" as is it is commonly mistranslated.) However, in nautical terms the word "Boca" refers to an inlet. The original name "Boca de Ratones" appeared on eighteenth century maps associated with an inlet in the Biscayne Bay area of Miami.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on June 18, 2014, 03:22:37 PM
Does Chicago have the worst weather of any major city? Colder than YYZ in the winter, hotter than NYC in the summer. But hey, they have shallots and milts.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: BigDanFan on June 22, 2014, 02:16:11 AM
Does Chicago have the worst weather of any major city? Colder than YYZ in the winter, hotter than NYC in the summer. But hey, they have shallots and milts.
not hotter than NYC, and nice Lake Shore Drive - almost a beach. Skateboarding, biking, jogging.
Better priced single family homes. Nice people. Good choice of schools and shuls.       + good food.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on June 22, 2014, 08:26:49 AM
not hotter than NYC, and nice Lake Shore Drive - almost a beach. Skateboarding, biking, jogging.
Better priced single family homes. Nice people. Good choice of schools and shuls.       + good food.
How often do locals from Lincolnwood go to lake shore drive? ??? Not sure it factors in to pros and cons....
But the housing is definitely much more reasonable and the people much nicer. Don't think the schools are any better than any similar sized Jewish community. And you do have two great restaurants.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lunatic on June 22, 2014, 10:22:56 AM
How often do locals from Lincolnwood go to lake shore drive? ??? Not sure it factors in to pros and cons....
But the housing is definitely much more reasonable and the people much nicer. Don't think the schools are any better than any similar sized Jewish community. And you do have two great restaurants.
Housing may be cheap as compared to NY or LA , but I would not consider it reasonable....
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 22, 2014, 11:19:08 AM
MIA in the summer is just unbearable.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Centro on June 22, 2014, 11:24:28 AM
MIA in the summer is just unbearable.
And we didn't hit August yet..
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 22, 2014, 11:48:57 AM
I'd take the cold any time over this. I can bundle up and walk around in the cold.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sky121 on June 22, 2014, 11:50:47 AM
Worse than southern Israel?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: efflpetzel on June 22, 2014, 11:51:21 AM

I'd take the cold any time over this. I can bundle up and walk around in the cold.
each to his own
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on June 22, 2014, 11:52:12 AM
each to his own
+1, we has this convo a while back.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on June 22, 2014, 11:52:54 AM
+1, we has this convo a while back.
We have this conversation every few months.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on June 22, 2014, 11:54:31 AM
We have this conversation every few months.
Maybe a poll would be helpful...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dr Moose on June 22, 2014, 12:02:37 PM
I'd take the cold any time over this. I can bundle up and walk around in the cold.
When you're out in the snow shoveling, you'll wish for the miami summer weather
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on June 22, 2014, 12:09:26 PM
When you're out in the snow shoveling, you'll wish for the miami summer weather


no snowflake on the street goes unpunished, the sidewalks are plowed for you so you don't have to shovel.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on June 22, 2014, 01:00:01 PM
MIA in the summer is just unbearable.
This ain't that bad.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 22, 2014, 01:02:08 PM
This ain't that bad.
If 90+ with humidity thick enough to cut isn't bad then what is?
And the daily several hourlong afternoon downpour isn't fun either.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on June 22, 2014, 01:21:02 PM
Housing may be cheap as compared to NY or LA , but I would not consider it reasonable....
I guess we have different definitions of reasonable
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lunatic on June 22, 2014, 01:23:22 PM
I guess we have different definitions of reasonable
Come to Baltimore to see mine
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on June 22, 2014, 01:34:40 PM
Housing may be cheap as compared to NY or LA , but I would not consider it reasonable....
you can get a small (1100 sqft. house, 3700 sqft. lot) 3 bed 2 bath in PP for around 200k. sounds pretty reasonable
(and if you're willing to move a block away (Ridgeway) from the existing frum blocks, you can get a bigger house and lot for that price)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on June 22, 2014, 01:41:03 PM
Not in a million years.
And you also have AWFUL weather
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: lunatic on June 22, 2014, 01:41:22 PM
you can get a small (1100 sqft. house, 3700 sqft. lot) 3 bed 2 bath in PP for around 200k. sounds pretty reasonable
(and if you're willing to move a block away (Ridgeway) from the existing frum blocks, you can get a bigger house and lot for that price)
Ummm when have you checked last?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on June 22, 2014, 01:51:19 PM
Ummm when have you checked last?
now, I'm in the process of helping someone look for a house there.
You can check zillow, but a lot of the listings are outdated (already in contract, though the prices are some what accurate)
 There is a larger house (1500 sqft not incluing the kitchen for some reason) on 6000 block of Monticello asking 375k will probably go for 350k on a mostly frum block.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on June 22, 2014, 03:08:02 PM
If 90+ with humidity thick enough to cut isn't bad then what is?
And the daily several hourlong afternoon downpour isn't fun either.
August. 95+ with worse humidity.
Today is a nice day for Florida summer standards.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on June 22, 2014, 03:50:05 PM
Lol. If you're outside more than a minute you're drenched!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mb1 on June 22, 2014, 04:08:07 PM
Being able to get away during the winter and get a break from the cold makes even very cold winters a lot more tolerable.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shkop on July 10, 2014, 03:58:36 PM
What's the deal with Atlanta Georgia? Any pros?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: ual902 on July 11, 2014, 12:30:40 AM
What's the deal with Atlanta Georgia? Any pros?

DL pesos hub big con for me
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Shkop on July 11, 2014, 02:20:04 AM
DL pesos hub big con for me
?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on July 11, 2014, 02:29:22 AM
= ATL is Delta hub. Delta Skymiles are viewed as one of the cheapest mileage currencies.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 13, 2014, 11:48:45 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-moving-and-housing-2014-7
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on July 14, 2014, 01:07:10 PM
Just came back from NYC. The difference in the humidity factor between there and YYZ is unbelievable. Yesterday was barely 80 in NYC and it was unbearable
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 14, 2014, 01:09:51 PM
Just came back from NYC. The difference in the humidity factor between there and YYZ is unbelievable. Yesterday was barely 80 in NYC and it was unbearable
The entire eastern seaboard has insane humidity levels in the summer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on July 14, 2014, 01:26:09 PM
Just came back from NYC. The difference in the humidity factor between there and YYZ is unbelievable. Yesterday was barely 80 in NYC and it was unbearable

+100
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on July 14, 2014, 07:26:27 PM
Probably just me.... but weather (unless super duper extreme) is the lowest item on my pro's and con's list of where to live. It comes somewhere right after 5* restaurants. (Especially considering the fact that I grew up in Chicago and still visit occasionally and have yet to make it to Milt's or Shallots. That, and the weather never really got to me. Yes, there are frustrating moments, but that's all they are, moments.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on July 14, 2014, 07:31:46 PM
Probably just me.... but weather (unless super duper extreme) is the lowest item on my pro's and con's list of where to live. It comes somewhere right after 5* restaurants.
Weather could be a huge factor for people deciding where to live.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on July 14, 2014, 07:33:14 PM
Weather could be a huge factor for people deciding where to live.
hard not to see that if you're following this thread
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on July 14, 2014, 07:35:45 PM
hard not to see that if you're following this thread
You're fine with 2 months of unbearable heat & humidity ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on July 14, 2014, 07:47:43 PM
You're fine with 2 months of ubearable heat & humidity ?
compared to what? Like I said it's low down on my list. I grew up in Chicago (extreme cold) and have been living in NYC for the past 5 yrs. , and now that I'm looking to move, weather has never come up as a factor to move. Nor have the restaurants (maybe because I only eat out once or twice a year.)
Though I should point out that even as I am looking to move mainly due to quality of life and housing (In that order), I enjoyed many opportunities here and have gotten used to the conveniences which will be sorley missed.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on July 15, 2014, 02:05:52 PM
compared to what? Like I said it's low down on my list. I grew up in Chicago (extreme cold) and have been living in NYC for the past 5 yrs. , and now that I'm looking to move, weather has never come up as a factor to move. Nor have the restaurants (maybe because I only eat out once or twice a year.)
Though I should point out that even as I am looking to move mainly due to quality of life and housing (In that order), I enjoyed many opportunities here and have gotten used to the conveniences which will be sorley missed.

Houston!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
Houston!
Sweltering.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on July 15, 2014, 02:17:07 PM
compared to what? Like I said it's low down on my list. I grew up in Chicago (extreme cold) and have been living in NYC for the past 5 yrs. , and now that I'm looking to move, weather has never come up as a factor to move. Nor have the restaurants (maybe because I only eat out once or twice a year.)
Though I should point out that even as I am looking to move mainly due to quality of life and housing (In that order), I enjoyed many opportunities here and have gotten used to the conveniences which will be sorley missed.
Sweltering.

Cost of living in Houston is from the lowest of any jewish community  IMHO.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on July 15, 2014, 02:19:57 PM
Cost of living in Houston is from the lowest of any jewish community  IMHO.
that may be but you still have to like the community and have a job
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on July 15, 2014, 02:25:51 PM
that may be but you still have to like the community and have a job

 :P :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 03:00:22 PM
Cost of living in Houston is from the lowest of any jewish community  IMHO.
http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/the-most-affordable-places-in-the-us-to-raise-your-committed-jewish-family/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on July 15, 2014, 03:13:48 PM
Cleveland Con:
Another 7 hours to the fast
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:14:57 PM
http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/the-most-affordable-places-in-the-us-to-raise-your-committed-jewish-family/

This list is incredibly inaccurate!

Dallas more expensive than the valley in LA ?!

Manhattan cheaper than Pico?!

on and on...

Who came up with this baloney?

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 03:16:34 PM
This list in incredibly inaccurate!

Dallas more expensive than the valley in LA ?!

Manhattan cheaper than Pico?!

on and on...

Who came up with this baloney?
You're misreading it, try again.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 15, 2014, 03:18:28 PM
http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/the-most-affordable-places-in-the-us-to-raise-your-committed-jewish-family/
If you click through to where he posts the numbers, you'll see that he used an average house price of $78k for Cleveland and $260k for Houston. Do you think those numbers represent the actual average cost of a house in the frum neighborhoods of each city?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:26:39 PM
You're misreading it, try again.

How am I misreading ? 26 comes before 29, no?
IE per his chart valley is cheaper than Dallas?

Also he says house in valley avg $350k. Umm - try more like 800k...
unless you want to live in Tijuana, CA...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 03:27:35 PM
How am I misreading ? 26 comes before 29, no?
IE per his chart valley is cheaper than Dallas?

Also he says house in valley avg $350k. Umm - try more like 800k...
unless you want to live in Tijuana, CA...
Most to least expensive:
Palo Alto, CA
Manhattan, NY
Teaneck, NJ
San Francisco, CA
Lake View, Chicago, IL
Great Neck, NY
Beverlywood, LA, CA
Boston, MA
Englewood, NJ
Washington, D.C.
Brooklyn, NY
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
San Diego, CA
Boca Raton, FL
Seattle, WA
Five Towns, NY
Dallas, TX
Potomic, MD
Riverdale, NY
White Plains, NY
Far Rockaway, NY
Atlanta, GA
Staten Island, NY
Miami, FL
Denver, CO
Springfield/Orange, NJ
Queens, NY
Silver Spring, MD
Houston, TX
Edison, NJ
Ann Arbor, MI
San Fernado Valley, LA, CA
Philadelphia, PA
Portland, ME
Skokie, Chicago, IL
Charlotte, NC
Cherry Hill, NJ
West Rogers Park, Chicago, IL
Passaic, NJ
Elizabeth, NJ
Pittsburgh, PA
Baltimore, MD
St. Louis, MO
Memphis, TN
Kansas City, MO
Columbus, OH
Milwaukee, WI
Buffalo, NY
Cleveland, OH
Detroit, MI
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:31:02 PM
Most to least expensive:
Palo Alto, CA
Manhattan, NY
Teaneck, NJ
San Francisco, CA
Lake View, Chicago, IL
Great Neck, NY
Beverlywood, LA, CA
Boston, MA
Englewood, NJ
Washington, D.C.
Brooklyn, NY
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
San Diego, CA
Boca Raton, FL
Seattle, WA
Five Towns, NY
Dallas, TX
Potomic, MD
Riverdale, NY
White Plains, NY
Far Rockaway, NY
Atlanta, GA
Staten Island, NY
Miami, FL
Denver, CO
Springfield/Orange, NJ
Queens, NY
Silver Spring, MD
Houston, TX
Edison, NJ
Ann Arbor, MI
San Fernado Valley, LA, CA
Philadelphia, PA
Portland, ME
Skokie, Chicago, IL
Charlotte, NC
Cherry Hill, NJ
West Rogers Park, Chicago, IL
Passaic, NJ
Elizabeth, NJ
Pittsburgh, PA
Baltimore, MD
St. Louis, MO
Memphis, TN
Kansas City, MO
Columbus, OH
Milwaukee, WI
Buffalo, NY
Cleveland, OH
Detroit, MI

Huh? What am I missing? on this chart too you've got Dallas as more expensive than San Fernando Valley?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on July 15, 2014, 03:34:20 PM
Below is the updated top 58, in increasing expense. Also, here is his data/rationale: http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/29/top-58-with-data/

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: mercaz1 on July 15, 2014, 03:35:29 PM
how is riverdale cheaper than dallas or Miami or far rockaway?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:40:24 PM
Here's the updated top 58, in increasing expense:

Kiryas Joel, NY
Detroit, MI
Cleveland, OH
Rochester, NY
Buffalo, NY
Monsey, NY
Memphis, TN
Milwaukee, WI
St. Louis, MO
Passaic, NJ
Portland, ME
Baltimore, MD
Far Rockaway, NY
Lakewood, NJ
Houston, TX
Columbus, OH
Denver, CO
Kansas City, KS
Phoenix, AZ
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Ann Arbor, MI
Pittsburgh, PA
Elizabeth, NJ
Seattle, WA
Atlanta, GA
San Fernado Valley, LA, CA
Miami, FL
Skokie, Chicago, IL
Dallas, TX
Las Vegas, NV
West Rogers Park, Chicago, IL
Queens, NY
Brooklyn, NY
San Diego, CA
Charlotte, NC
Staten Island, NY
Manhattan, NY
Philadelphia, PA
Boca Raton, FL
Lakeview, Chicago, IL
Silver Spring, MD
Riverdale, NY
San Francisco, CA
White Plains, NY
Englewood, NJ
Washington, D.C.
West Orange/Livingston/Springfield, NJ
Great Neck, NY
Irvine, CA
Edison, NJ
Lower Merion, PA
Teaneck, NJ
Cherry Hill, NJ
Boston, MA
Five Towns, NY
Beverlywood, LA, CA
Palo Alto, CA
Potomac, MD

One of us is either hung over or very overtired... How does switching chart from most expensive to least and then vice versa answer my question?

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Sport on July 15, 2014, 03:40:51 PM

This list is incredibly inaccurate!

Dallas more expensive than the valley in LA ?!

Manhattan cheaper than Pico?!

on and on...

Who came up with this baloney?
You're misreading it, try again.
Still inaccurate, there is no way Dallas is more expensive than Far Rockaway. My guess is that his inaccuracies are bc He is getting his average prices from trulia which includes ALL the homes in that neighborhood.So there may be many cheap homes in far rockaway but those houses are nowhere near the Jewish community.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 03:42:48 PM
If you click through to where he posts the numbers, you'll see that he used an average house price of $78k for Cleveland and $260k for Houston. Do you think those numbers represent the actual average cost of a house in the frum neighborhoods of each city?
True, they should really be using frum zip codes.  Definitely a flaw.
But even Zip codes will be far from perfect. Really need a 1 mile radius from every shul...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:43:44 PM
Still inaccurate, there is no way Dallas is more expensive than Far Rockaway. My guess is that his inaccuracies are bc He is getting his average prices from trulia which includes ALL the homes in that neighborhood.So there may be many cheap homes in far rockaway but those houses are nowhere near the Jewish community.

My point exactly.

Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on July 15, 2014, 03:44:20 PM
One of us is either hung over or very overtired... How does switching chart from most expensive to least and then vice versa answer my question?

Must be you who is hung over or very overtired, as I wasn't responding to you. You'll note the lack of a quote.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:45:06 PM
True, they should really be using frum zip codes.  Definitely a flaw.
But even Zip codes will be far from perfect. Really need a 1 mile radius from every shul...

Yeps - a MAJOR flaw since real estate is one of largest costs of frum living...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 03:47:02 PM
Yeps - a MAJOR flaw since real estate is one of largest costs of frum living...
Not sure I'd call it major.
Most cities are where they belong more or less (as houses in all cities near shuls are pushed higher) but there are a few places where things are just more skewed than others.

Income is also problematic, I guarantee you the average frum household in CLE isn't scraping by on $25K :D
But it balances out due to the low house prices they use...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:47:49 PM
Must be you who is hung over or very overtired, as I wasn't responding to you. You'll note the lack of a quote.

Aha. My apologies.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on July 15, 2014, 03:48:04 PM
Below is the updated top 58, in increasing expense. Also, here is his data/rationale: http://matthewcaseywilliams.wordpress.com/2014/04/29/top-58-with-data/

  • Kiryas Joel, NY
  • Detroit, MI
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Rochester, NY
  • Buffalo, NY
  • Monsey, NY
  • Memphis, TN
  • Milwaukee, WI
  • St. Louis, MO
  • Passaic, NJ
  • Portland, ME
  • Baltimore, MD
  • Far Rockaway, NY
  • Lakewood, NJ
  • Houston, TX
  • Columbus, OH
  • Denver, CO
  • Kansas City, KS
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Ft. Lauderdale, FL
  • Ann Arbor, MI
  • Pittsburgh, PA
  • Elizabeth, NJ
  • Seattle, WA
  • Atlanta, GA
  • San Fernado Valley, LA, CA
  • Miami, FL
  • Skokie, Chicago, IL
  • Dallas, TX
  • Las Vegas, NV
  • West Rogers Park, Chicago, IL
  • Queens, NY
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • San Diego, CA
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Staten Island, NY
  • Manhattan, NY
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Boca Raton, FL
  • Lakeview, Chicago, IL
  • Silver Spring, MD
  • Riverdale, NY
  • San Francisco, CA
  • White Plains, NY
  • Englewood, NJ
  • Washington, D.C.
  • West Orange/Livingston/Springfield, NJ
  • Great Neck, NY
  • Irvine, CA
  • Edison, NJ
  • Lower Merion, PA
  • Teaneck, NJ
  • Cherry Hill, NJ
  • Boston, MA
  • Five Towns, NY
  • Beverlywood, LA, CA
  • Palo Alto, CA
  • Potomac, MD
Kiryas Joel, NY most affordable place to live... Not in this life cycle.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on July 15, 2014, 03:48:21 PM
Monsey at #6? Is that a joke?
Livingston/Springfield at 47?
Something is very wrong with this list
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on July 15, 2014, 03:49:37 PM


Something is very wrong with this list
+100
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on July 15, 2014, 03:51:54 PM
San Diego at 34? It should be top five most expensive
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: SPGCont on July 15, 2014, 03:52:37 PM
+100


People are seeing the light...

The list has gotten some things right (yes, Cleveland is cheaper than Manhattan, as is Buffalo, etc.. :)  but once you get into detail nothing is really in proper order...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 03:53:09 PM
San Diego at 34? It should be top five most expensive
The numbers are based on housing prices and income of the city as a whole.  It's got nothing to do with frum communities per se other than the sampling is of places with frum populations.

But those numbers will be hard/impossible to get ahold of. And this is the next best thing.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on July 15, 2014, 03:54:30 PM
If you click through to where he posts the numbers, you'll see that he used an average house price of $78k for Cleveland and $260k for Houston. Do you think those numbers represent the actual average cost of a house in the frum neighborhoods of each city?

http://www.relocatehouston.org/
The Brays Oaks area is particularly affordable, with home prices in the eruv averaging just $225k.

Here is hard data from the Jewish community that actually lives there. I am not saying it is the cheapest place in the frum world but with no individual income tax among other things, makes in very affordable.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on July 15, 2014, 03:56:32 PM
The numbers are based on housing prices and income of the city as a whole.  It's got nothing to do with frum communities per se other than the sampling is of places with frum populations.

But those numbers will be hard/impossible to get a hold of. And this is the next best thing.

Not at all. As i linked in my previous comment, most out of town communities have a site with actual hard data for moving into their community. I am not saying that anyone here needs to spend their entire fast day complying a list, but it can be done and would be way more accurate.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 04:01:23 PM
Not at all. As i linked in my previous comment, most out of town communities have a site with actual hard data for moving into their community. I am not saying that anyone here needs to spend their entire fast day complying a list, but it can be done and would be way more accurate.
I highly doubt most frum communities have accurate housing and income data.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on July 15, 2014, 04:05:07 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/14/southern-synagogue-revitalized-by-1m-program-to-recruit-jews-to-small-alabama/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on July 15, 2014, 04:05:11 PM
Lots of this list meaningless. Not sure that is "the next best thing"
Again, I have personal knowledge that the Jewish community in La Jolla is probably #2 or #3 on this list. putting it in the middle of the pack is a joke
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 04:07:58 PM
Lots of this list meaningless. Not sure that is "the next best thing"
Again, I have personal knowledge that the Jewish community in La Jolla is probably #2 or #3 on this list. putting it in the middle of the pack is a joke
La Jolla isn't on the list.  SD isn't including that.  And it has nothing to do with where the jews live, that's the biggest flaw and will be seen the most in places where Jews live in places that are way off from the city median.

I think for the most part it's accurate enough with the flawed/limited data it works on.  I'm sure there are a few that are way out of place, but top to bottom it looks more correct than incorrect.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kaman on July 15, 2014, 04:55:27 PM
Isn't tax a big missing piece? Real Estate Tax+ Income Tax is much higher in NJ over anywhere else. That could move the needle on some of these calculations
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on July 15, 2014, 04:58:25 PM
How are the averages on trulia and zillow so disparate?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: skyguy918 on July 15, 2014, 06:24:44 PM
La Jolla isn't on the list.  SD isn't including that.  And it has nothing to do with where the jews live, that's the biggest flaw and will be seen the most in places where Jews live in places that are way off from the city median.

I think for the most part it's accurate enough with the flawed/limited data it works on.  I'm sure there are a few that are way out of place, but top to bottom it looks more correct than incorrect.
The fact that the list overall looks more or less in line with your view of the matter does not validate it as a good list, even if your view was the most correct. Everyone is pointing out the reason that the methodology is flawed. If the methodology is flawed, you don't get to pick and choose what's good from the results, the results are all flawed.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on July 15, 2014, 06:28:03 PM
It's flawed methodology if you're looking for frum areas only.

But if you're looking at cities as a whole it's correct. Therefore it gives a good idea for most places where the immediate frum community isn't priced at massive multiples over avg/median house prices.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on August 01, 2014, 01:34:43 PM
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/18200-Shaker-Blvd-Shaker-Heights-OH-44120/33684544_zpid/

And a house like this in NYC/MIA/LAX/CHI/YYZ would cost...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on August 01, 2014, 01:46:27 PM
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/18200-Shaker-Blvd-Shaker-Heights-OH-44120/33684544_zpid/

And a house like this in NYC/MIA/LAX/CHI/YYZ would cost...
Location, location, location!!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on August 01, 2014, 04:46:51 PM
YYZ it would be $3 mil easy
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: EJB on August 02, 2014, 11:06:09 PM
Taxes aren't too low though in CLE (over 30k). House was a foreclosure prob Bc of the taxes.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on August 02, 2014, 11:09:44 PM
Taxes aren't too low though in CLE (over 30k). House was a foreclosure prob Bc of the taxes.
That's not CLE, that's Shaker Heights.
I think they may have the highest property tax rate in the country at 4% of home value.  Beachwood is half that.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eis517 on August 03, 2014, 01:23:21 PM
YYZ it would be $3 mil easy

with land that size, at least 4-5 mil     and the property taxes would be insane
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on August 03, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
with land that size, at least 4-5 mil     and the property taxes would be insane
I think they would be comparable (30k)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: eis517 on August 03, 2014, 03:25:11 PM
I think they would be comparable (30k)

Sorry- I meant toronto proper and I assumed you were talking about Thill. Toronto properties are pricier and property taxes are significantly more.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on August 03, 2014, 03:40:33 PM
True. Taxes would be in the 50-60k range
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: oreo on August 17, 2014, 09:38:14 PM
It's a shame Cincinnati missed out on that top 58 list by not having grades 9-12 in a day school for boys.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on August 17, 2014, 09:53:11 PM
That's like saying it's a shame that non alcoholic beer missed out on the top beers list because it didn't have alcohol
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: oreo on August 17, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
That's like saying it's a shame that non alcoholic beer missed out on the top beers list because it didn't have alcohol

Well said. But Buffalo doesn't have one though, does it?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on August 17, 2014, 10:07:07 PM
Well said. But Buffalo doesn't have one though, does it?
I don't believe so
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: oreo on August 17, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
I don't believe so

Therein lies my point.

Unless they're counting Rochester's HS for Buffalo?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Chaikel on August 17, 2014, 11:11:27 PM
That's like saying it's a shame that non alcoholic beer missed out on the top beers list because it didn't have alcohol

Great!
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: sammy n on August 18, 2014, 05:57:46 AM

That's like saying it's a shame that non alcoholic beer missed out on the top beers list because it didn't have alcohol
+10000
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on August 18, 2014, 07:58:42 AM
Well said. But Buffalo doesn't have one though, does it?
There is a Chabad HS in BUF.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Moshe123 on August 18, 2014, 08:12:28 AM
Nobody lives in Ferguson?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on August 18, 2014, 09:55:26 AM
That's like saying it's a shame that non alcoholic beer missed out on the top beers list because it didn't have alcohol

Alol
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on August 18, 2014, 09:20:36 PM
Nobody lives in Ferguson?

let's start a community
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avibrooklyn on August 19, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
let's start a community

with your hands up
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dr Moose on August 19, 2014, 10:27:30 AM
let's start a community
IINM it's 15 min away from the jewish community in stl
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Freddie on August 19, 2014, 01:38:56 PM
IINM it's 15 min away from the jewish community in stl

Now's the time to buy up property cheap.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: oreo on August 19, 2014, 10:33:01 PM
There is a Chabad HS in BUF.

There is one in Cincinnati as well
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on August 23, 2014, 09:55:34 PM
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/real-value-100-each-state
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: EJB on August 24, 2014, 12:49:57 AM
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/real-value-100-each-state

Stop making ppl glued to the NE (like me) feel bad.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on August 25, 2014, 06:13:29 PM
Stop making ppl glued to the NE (like me) feel bad.
All he's trying to do is loosen the glue.  ;)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: bubble347 on September 09, 2014, 10:41:45 AM
Is this a con for Cleveland?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on September 09, 2014, 11:24:26 AM
Is this a con for Cleveland?

Cleveland and any other city on the great lakes.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 18, 2014, 03:26:40 PM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/real-estate/report-boca-raton-is-states-most-livable-city-no-1/nhPQC/ (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/real-estate/report-boca-raton-is-states-most-livable-city-no-1/nhPQC/)
11th best in the country.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on September 18, 2014, 03:31:40 PM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/real-estate/report-boca-raton-is-states-most-livable-city-no-1/nhPQC/ (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/real-estate/report-boca-raton-is-states-most-livable-city-no-1/nhPQC/)
Next time I think about moving to FL I'll think about Boca. As of yet such thoughts have never entered my mind though.  :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on September 18, 2014, 03:35:10 PM
Next time I think about moving to FL I'll think about Boca. As of yet such thoughts have never entered my mind though.  :D
Trade LA summer for FL summer?  Heck no.
Well except for taxes and housing costs :D
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on September 18, 2014, 04:10:32 PM
http://www.100newfamilies.com/
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on September 18, 2014, 04:39:31 PM
Trade LA summer for FL summer?  Heck no.
Well except for taxes and housing costs :D
Which is why by BIL the accountant wants to move to Boca.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: jaywhy on September 18, 2014, 04:43:12 PM
Which is why by BIL the accountant wants to move to Boca.
If you can handle the heat, it's an incredible place to live.
IME, it gets easier the second summer.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yehoshua on September 18, 2014, 04:56:09 PM
If you can handle the heat, it's an incredible place to live.
IME, it gets easier the second summer.
To be fair he grew up in NMB, so he's been used to it for a long time. I am not good at handling the heat at all. Maybe it's because I lived in Milwaukee for 7 years, but I could barely handle south FL the few times I was there in Feb/Mar when it was 80 and humid (for an Angeleno).
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: E R K on September 18, 2014, 09:08:20 PM
http://www.100newfamilies.com/
Would you really want to go back?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Joe4007 on October 27, 2014, 05:15:18 PM
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=14538.msg947020#msg947020

 :P
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: henche on October 27, 2014, 06:14:02 PM
Cons: me
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on October 29, 2014, 07:24:59 PM
This weeks Ami magazine (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/29/c67575fd3948a04736880acb1e8ecdf7.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on October 29, 2014, 07:27:43 PM
which publication is that ^ ^ ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on October 29, 2014, 07:28:53 PM
which publication is that ^ ^ ?

It says on top of the picture Ami magazine.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: kracked dude on October 29, 2014, 07:34:15 PM
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/29/1821a2fda05a0d335876e6421240fe38.jpg)

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/29/54531ba3a136bc8a3c113cc185c595ea.jpg)

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/29/c6f67af771eabdeb347c2eabbc8b25c5.jpg)

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/29/5b61d41999a664416cea37ad2496ef63.jpg)

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/29/425a0f662e35154fc068a677fef3b75e.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: CS1 on October 29, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
It says on top of the picture Ami magazine.

thanks - I was looking AT the top of the picture. Now I see that it's written on DDF on top of the picture. will be interested to read the article.
They talk about the few 'eateries' and not much about the 3 Mikvaos, and just about 2 lines on the chinuch, younger pre-school options aren't mentioned.
(Neither is "Dan's Deals" mentioned alongside Cleveland Clinic.)

Would be cool if they had a monthly series of out-of-town profiles of midsized cities..
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: AJK on November 20, 2014, 06:51:16 PM
Anyone know the story with Jewish community in Albany?

Number of people? Shuls? restaurants? Homes? etc.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 21, 2014, 03:02:24 AM
The orthodox shul struggles to get a minyan on Sunday. It's a beautiful shul. On shabbos I think they have around 150 people.
I don't think there are any restaurants. Homes IIRC are extremely cheap
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on November 21, 2014, 03:11:00 AM
Anyone know the story with Jewish community in Albany?

Number of people? Shuls? restaurants? Homes? etc.

This one restaurant came up in search - http://www.terraalbany.com/about/kosher/. And there are large kosher aisles in a few supermarkets.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: oiseli48 on November 21, 2014, 08:54:01 AM
Ft. Lauderdale - there's a Walmart with a bluebird atm :) (though it's beginning to go out of style)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on November 21, 2014, 11:54:22 AM
Ft. Lauderdale - there's a Walmart with a bluebird atm :) (though it's beginning to go out of style)

do people really move places based on a Wal Mart atm machine?? :o :o
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 21, 2014, 12:08:39 PM
do people really move places based on a Wal Mart atm machine?? :o :o
Do people on the internet not understand jokes? :o :o
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: etech0 on November 21, 2014, 12:09:51 PM
Do people on the internet not understand jokes? :o :o
all the time
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: avrumy22 on November 21, 2014, 12:59:30 PM
all the time

 ;D especially when you cant hear the tone of voice used..
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: username on November 24, 2014, 04:43:49 PM
do people really move places based on a Wal Mart atm machine?? :o :o
all the time
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 24, 2014, 05:37:18 PM
I decided in 2011 to move to Phoenix, after some back and forth to LA,
in May 2014 I made the final move after purchasing a house - Phoenix is now my official home

Pros:
- Housing is very cheap (~$120 SQFT) with big lots attached.
- Parking is abundant, everybody has driveways.
- Not much traffic, when there is, you can drive on local streets.
- People are friendly.
- Pretty good hospital, doctors etc. (Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson sister hospital, Phoenix Children's)
- Major sports teams and venues - Diamondbacks, Cardinals, Suns, Coyotes.
- Baseball spring training, 1/2 major league teams spend their spring training in greater Phoenix area.
- Driving distance to several major cities: LA 5.5 hours LAS 4.5 hours TUS 1.5 hours.
- PHX is hub for UA and SW.
- Winter weather doesn't go below freezing, rains only several times a year in the summer.
- Lots of great shopping and Walmart's, CVS (1.5 hour drive to TUS for Prepaid REDcard)
- 125K+ Jews live in the metro area, many options for meat/dairy food.
- All Trader Joe's carry empire chicken, turkey and glatt beef. Sprouts carries empire chickens and turkey.
- Gas is cheaper than NY and LA

Cons:
- 100+ degrees on 100+ days a year, dry heat but still pretty hot (most people have swimming pools)
- Job opportunities not abundant like in other major cities, but there are several headquarters for major Co's. like US :)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on November 24, 2014, 05:42:02 PM
I decided in 2011 to move to Phoenix, after some back and forth to LA,
in May 2014 I made the final move after purchasing a house - Phoenix is now my official home

Pros:
- Housing is very cheap (~$120 SQFT) with big lots attached.
- Parking is abundant, everybody has driveways.
- Not much traffic, when there is, you can drive on local streets.
- People are friendly.
- Pretty good hospital, doctors etc. (Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson sister hospital, Phoenix Children's)
- Major sports teams and venues - Diamondbacks, Cardinals, Suns, Coyotes.
- Baseball spring training, 1/2 major league teams spend their spring training in greater Phoenix area.
- Driving distance to several major cities: LA 5.5 hours LAS 4.5 hours TUS 1.5 hours.
- PHX is hub for UA and SW.
- Winter weather doesn't go below freezing, rains only several times a year in the summer.
- Lots of great shopping and Walmart's, CVS (1.5 hour drive to TUS for Prepaid REDcard)
- 125K+ Jews live in the metro area, many options for meat/dairy food.
- All Trader Joe's carry empire chicken, turkey and glatt beef. Sprouts carries empire chickens and turkey.
- Gas is cheaper than NY and LA

Cons:
- 100+ degrees on 100+ days a year, dry heat but still pretty hot (most people have swimming pools)
- Job opportunities not abundant like in other major cities, but there are several headquarters for major Co's. like US :)
What about schools ?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2014, 05:43:09 PM
-125K+ Jews live in the metro area
{{Citation needed}}

Otherwise nice post.  But are the meat and dairy restaurants really considered a pro? Anything that can compare to LA style food?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 24, 2014, 05:45:18 PM
What about schools ?
My kid is not school age.
I know there is the Hebrew Academy and Torah Day School and a few more.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 24, 2014, 05:47:12 PM
{{Citation needed}}

Otherwise nice post.  But are the meat and dairy restaurants really considered a pro? Anything that can compare to LA style food?
1) nothing compares to food in LA or NY
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Federations_of_North_America#Historical_highlights and several other sources
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on November 24, 2014, 05:51:51 PM
- PHX is hub for US and SW.

FTFY.

Saw a cookbook that recently came out, featured two recipes from Segal's, and wrote a nice review of that place.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: TimT on November 24, 2014, 05:53:34 PM
My kid is not school age.
I'm sure you looked into it before making the decision.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2014, 06:32:25 PM
1) nothing compares to food in LA or NY
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Federations_of_North_America#Historical_highlights and several other sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_urban_areas
21    Phoenix[49]     United States    82,900

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 24, 2014, 07:15:49 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_urban_areas
21    Phoenix[49]     United States    82,900

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html

Several articles (including Mishpacha) have quoted at 100k+
Others say between 83K-100K
YMMV?
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2014, 07:25:13 PM
Fair enough.
Was just shocked to see 125K, that's nearing what YYZ has and they have wayyyy more infrastructure that PHX does.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 24, 2014, 07:43:23 PM
I thought the YYZ community was bigger than that
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2014, 07:53:01 PM
I thought the YYZ community was bigger than that
It is.
But 125K is in the rough ballpark.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on November 24, 2014, 07:54:50 PM
Are there numbers somewhere about the orthodox community
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 24, 2014, 08:58:50 PM
Fair enough.
Was just shocked to see 125K, that's nearing what YYZ has and they have wayyyy more infrastructure that PHX does.
The Frum infrastructure isn't very robust due to lack of orthodox / observant Jews.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 24, 2014, 09:04:56 PM
I know. But still 125K seems like a massive exaggeration...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 24, 2014, 09:22:11 PM
I know. But still 125K seems like a massive exaggeration...
I agree, but I can say I know of at least 10 Chabad Houses in:
Phoenix
Scottsdale
Paradise Valley
Glendale
Fountain Valley
Chandler
Mesa
Tempe
Goodyear
& Gilbert

In addition there is a Kollel and several orthodox shuls in Phoenix and Scottsdale.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on November 25, 2014, 01:08:29 AM
I agree, but I can say I know of at least 10 Chabad Houses in:
Phoenix
Scottsdale
Paradise Valley
Glendale
Fountain Valley
Chandler
Mesa
Tempe
Goodyear
& Gilbert

In addition there is a Kollel and several orthodox shuls in Phoenix and Scottsdale.

New Shluchim coming to Prescott, AZ soon too. Know them quite well.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 25, 2014, 01:19:32 AM
New Shluchim coming to Prescott, AZ soon too. Know them quite well.
Prescott is quite a ways from Phoenix..
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Yaalili on November 25, 2014, 01:23:44 AM
Prescott is quite a ways from Phoenix..

Lol just checked it is over 100 miles away :) - Guess I associated it with Phoenix cuz its the closest major city.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on November 25, 2014, 08:19:34 AM
I agree, but I can say I know of at least 10 Chabad Houses in:
Phoenix
Scottsdale
Paradise Valley
Glendale
Fountain Valley
Chandler
Mesa
Tempe
Goodyear
& Gilbert

In addition there is a Kollel and several orthodox shuls in Phoenix and Scottsdale.
Eh, Sao Paulo has 20 chabads and many other shuls and kollels but there's only ~60K jews there.
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: caliheat on November 25, 2014, 09:37:43 AM
Eh, Sao Paulo has 20 chabads and many other shuls and kollels but there's only ~60K jews there.
I concede...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Dan on December 04, 2014, 11:38:32 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/04/real_estate/housing-affordability-brooklyn/index.html?category=home
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Barryg on December 05, 2014, 02:02:51 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/04/real_estate/housing-affordability-brooklyn/index.html?category=home
a median-priced home of $615,000 in that area, Maybe in Marine Park... AFAIK it's closer to a mil in Boropark and Flatbush...
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: moko on December 05, 2014, 07:28:31 AM
a median-priced home of $615,000 in that area, Maybe in Marine Park... AFAIK it's closer to a mil in Boropark and Flatbush...
median for Brooklyn includes areas even less desirable than marine park (east ny, starett city) and even more desirable than boro park (park slope, Williamsburg)
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Ergel on December 07, 2014, 03:23:07 PM
Why it's crazy to live in Toronto:
2 regular slices
Mushroom slice
Tuna panini
Mac n cheese
Spicy fries
4 drinks
Total:$41 and change
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: Emkay on December 07, 2014, 03:38:37 PM
Why it's crazy to live in Toronto:
2 regular slices
Mushroom slice
Tuna panini
Mac n cheese
Spicy fries
4 drinks
Total:$41 and change
It was the spicy in the fries that threw it over the top
Title: Re: The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on December 07, 2014, 05:30:56 PM
Why it's crazy to live in Toronto:
2 regular slices
Mushroom slice
Tuna panini
Mac n cheese
Spicy fries
4 drinks
Total:$41 and change
Price is not crazy at all;
Panini = $10, Mac n Cheese = $10, Spicy Fries = $ 4.50, 4 drinks = $8, 3 slices pizza = $7. Total = ~$40

Depending on the type of restaurant it can easily be more than that.