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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: Dan on October 01, 2013, 08:21:48 PM

Title: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 01, 2013, 08:21:48 PM
https://www.healthcare.gov/

The exchanges seem way more expensive than what I can get on the private market.
Good luck getting healthy people to join...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: mbch on October 01, 2013, 08:38:51 PM
I couldn't check the federal site had a long wait earlier today. (I can tell you the media makes it sound like a big success)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Name Changed on October 01, 2013, 08:45:47 PM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 01, 2013, 08:46:57 PM
For a government agency they have a pretty good mobile site, I guess when you want something badly enough...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Yeki89 on October 01, 2013, 08:54:59 PM
Bourch Dayen Haemes
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Yeki89 on October 01, 2013, 08:56:35 PM
Quote
Health Insurance Marketplace: Please wait
We have a lot of visitors on our site right now and we're working to make your experience here better. Please wait here until we send you to the login page. Thanks for your patience!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 01, 2013, 08:59:36 PM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
So basically at my next renewal I can expect my private insurance rate to skyrocket.
Yay.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: mbch on October 01, 2013, 09:15:13 PM
most peoples will because their insurance companies wont be able to deny people for preexisting conditions.  That means people will sign up when theyre sick and not pay when theyre healthy
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 01, 2013, 09:49:56 PM
most peoples will because their insurance companies wont be able to deny people for preexisting conditions.  That means people will sign up when theyre sick and not pay when theyre healthy
I heard that part of the bill was changed a little
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 01, 2013, 09:50:21 PM
So basically at my next renewal I can expect my private insurance rate to skyrocket.
Yay.
You can always come to Canada
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: metziah on October 01, 2013, 10:36:20 PM

So basically at my next renewal I can expect my private insurance rate to skyrocket.
Yay.
Yup, that's what it seems like. I already got a letter from my insurance company stating how my current plan will not be available for purchase soon due to the changes in what they have to start covering.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: metziah on October 01, 2013, 10:36:57 PM

You can always come to Canada
Ya. And get treated like its free!!!!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: robi on October 01, 2013, 10:47:54 PM
So basically at my next renewal I can expect my private insurance rate to skyrocket.
Yay.
exactly
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 01, 2013, 10:49:03 PM
You can always come to Canada
Yotzah sechoro b'hesfseido.

...And wait 6 months to be seen.  And I saw your car insurance and house price :P
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 01, 2013, 10:53:20 PM
Yotzah sechoro b'hesfseido.

...And wait 6 months to be seen.
Eh. The Jews don't wait. It's all about who you know.
Quote
  And I saw your car insurance and house price :P

:P
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: metziah on October 01, 2013, 11:08:51 PM

Eh. The Jews don't wait. It's all about who you know.
:P
That's why Moshe Reichman had to wait 6 months to get a hip replacement!!!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 02, 2013, 12:04:54 AM
That's why Moshe Reichman had to wait 6 months to get a hip replacement!!!

You'd think he'd hop on a plane...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on October 02, 2013, 12:08:27 AM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Nice video but not completely true. Most of the subsidy money is $$$ that are already being spent by the govt for uninsured hospital care and charity programs. These dollars are simply being shifted and aren't technically new costs and therefore shouldn't significantly impact plan rates (not that other factors won't...)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Yeki89 on October 02, 2013, 12:44:20 AM
You'd think he'd hop on a plane...
He would have... But his hip :P
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 02, 2013, 12:57:20 AM
Since insurance companies are obligated to provide all kinds of preventative healthcare (yearly physicals etc.), the price of insurance will go up for everyone now, but go down in the future since people will be getting diagnosed earlier and early intervention treatments are cheaper than late intervention.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 02, 2013, 01:01:46 AM
Since insurance companies are obligated to provide all kinds of preventative healthcare (yearly physicals etc.), the price of insurance will go up for everyone now, but go down in the future since people will be getting diagnosed earlier and early intervention treatments are cheaper than late intervention.

Insurance companies know what makes them money. If early prevention would be cheaper, they'd be doing it already.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 02, 2013, 01:09:08 AM
So basically at my next renewal I can expect my private insurance rate to skyrocket.
Yay.

Obama had the nerve to say today that people with preexisting conditions deserve to pay the same price as the rest of us. What he didn't mention is that insurance companies will be losing major money by providing healthcare at healthy person rates. They will simply have to raise the rates for everyone else including healthy people in order to comply with the insane law.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yehuda S on October 02, 2013, 06:50:36 AM
Insurance companies know what makes them money. If early prevention would be cheaper, they'd be doing it already.
It's possible that without the law forcing everyone to do it, a single insurance company could never implement that, since it would get majorly undercut by other companies in the short term. People just care about the pinch to their wallets now so they'd flock to other companies.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 02, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
It's possible that without the law forcing everyone to do it, a single insurance company could never implement that, since it would get majorly undercut by other companies in the short term. People just care about the pinch to their wallets now so they'd flock to other companies.

And it's highly possible that early prevention doesn't save money at all, yet the law still forces companies to test their theories and hurt consumers. I think Better the devil you know than the devil you don't...

Or better yet, instead of forcing companies to provide early prevention, subsidize it for a couple years to the ones who do. That way would be the best way to see if companies believe that it's more profitable in the long run.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: meshugener on October 02, 2013, 08:34:42 AM
@jimmykimme: l found out during street interviews that many people are against Obamacare but love the affordable care act...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Solomon on October 02, 2013, 09:45:50 AM
May be a silly question, but what affect if any will it have on the Medicaid / Health plus users ?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: aryeh1 on October 02, 2013, 12:13:16 PM
May be a silly question, but what affect if any will it have on the Medicaid / Health plus users ?
+1?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 02, 2013, 02:49:10 PM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
I love how they did it minutephysics style.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: benellis7 on October 02, 2013, 05:12:27 PM
Medicaid!!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: george on October 02, 2013, 05:19:49 PM
May be a silly question, but what affect if any will it have on the Medicaid / Health plus users ?
Medicaid will be expanded in many states.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Solomon on October 03, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
Medicaid will be expanded in many states.
But will it have any affect in the states that currently have it?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 03, 2013, 09:44:46 AM
But will it have any affect in the states that currently have it?
Every state already 'has' Medicaid. The program is jointly funded by the federal government and the states, but the states essentially decide how to administer it. So different states can have different eligibility requirements and use different health insurance providers to actually provide the coverage.

ObamaCare was supposed to significantly expand who the states would be required to accept in order to get the federal funding, while also increasing the amount the federal government gives the states for the program. The Supreme Court though ruled that even if a state doesn't follow the new eligibility rules, they still get the original lower amount of federal funding. Because of this, some of the states will be 'participating' (accepting more people for Medicaid) and other will not. See this (http://www.advisory.com/~/media/Advisory-com/Daily-Briefing/2012/11/DB_medicaid_map_lg_OLD.jpg) map for which states are and which aren't.

ETA - The map is not completely up to date, but each of the states listed there as 'leaning' ended up going the way they leaned. Of the 'pursuing alternative model' states, Iowa and Arkansas are listed as expanding, while Indiana and Tennessee are not. This is all according to medicaid.gov.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Solomon on October 03, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
Every state already 'has' Medicaid. The program is jointly funded by the federal government and the states, but the states essentially decide how to administer it. So different states can have different eligibility requirements and use different health insurance providers to actually provide the coverage.

ObamaCare was supposed to significantly expand who the states would be required to accept in order to get the federal funding, while also increasing the amount the federal government gives the states for the program. The Supreme Court though ruled that even if a state doesn't follow the new eligibility rules, they still get the original lower amount of federal funding. Because of this, some of the states will be 'participating' (accepting more people for Medicaid) and other will not. See this (http://www.advisory.com/~/media/Advisory-com/Daily-Briefing/2012/11/DB_medicaid_map_lg_OLD.jpg) map for which states are and which aren't.

ETA - The map is not completely up to date, but each of the states listed there as 'leaning' ended up going the way they leaned. Of the 'pursuing alternative model' states, Iowa and Arkansas are listed as expanding, while Indiana and Tennessee are not. This is all according to medicaid.gov.
Well explained, Thanks
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: aryeh1 on October 03, 2013, 10:27:27 AM
So ny did participate?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 03, 2013, 10:30:19 AM
So ny did participate?
It's not effective till 2014, but yes.

http://www.medicaid.gov/Medicaid-CHIP-Program-Information/By-State/new-york.html (http://www.medicaid.gov/Medicaid-CHIP-Program-Information/By-State/new-york.html)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 03, 2013, 10:55:18 AM
So if someone is currently on medicaid, is there anything he needs to know/do now?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: aryeh1 on October 03, 2013, 11:51:17 AM
I looked at the table income requirement seems same for ny.

And what is CHIP?  is that child health plus?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 03, 2013, 11:54:21 AM
I looked at the table income requirement seems same for ny.

And what is CHIP?  is that child health plus?
Links for the 2 tables you're comparing?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: kracked dude on October 03, 2013, 12:42:54 PM
Wow, who knew that Obamacare or DDF for that matter was around in 1982!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/04/eqahujyg.jpg)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 03, 2013, 02:36:57 PM
Wow, who knew that Obamacare or DDF for that matter was around in 1982!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/04/eqahujyg.jpg)

Tapatlak always has those glitches.
I commonly see posts from 1969, and not just from CV :P
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: chuchem on October 03, 2013, 06:01:29 PM
I must say, i am surprise how a country like the usa doesnt have a good health system. Let me explain how the swiss works and see if you like it

Basic insurance is mandatory. The government decides whats covered under Basic insurance, but all the normal sickness, treatments and medicins are.
Whoever doesnt have insurance, the government will give you one against your will and force you to pay. There are alot of companies offering this Basic insurance and you are free to pick whatever one you want, but they all gibe the exact same benefits. The insurance company has to accept everyone, no matter in what condition.

If someone cant afford the insurance, then the government will pay for it after checking your income

Any premium plan (private Hospitals, Spezialist, special treatments) is not under government rules and they can deny people entrance at free will

Like this everyone is covered for basics, i might be paying more as a healthy person, as i have to, but hey thats life...

The Basic insurance for a swiss person is about 250 dollars a month. My wife has a premium insurance (free doctor choice, private room after birth... just more choices) thats about extra 150 dollars a month

What do you think?

Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: AsherO on October 03, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
The Basic insurance for a swiss person is about 250 dollars a month. My wife has a premium insurance (free doctor choice, private room after birth... just more choices) thats about extra 150 dollars a month

$250/pp including children? Any discounted family rates?

How do children get covered if they (obviously) don't have income, does the Swiss government pay?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: whYME on October 03, 2013, 07:09:24 PM
You can't make this stuff up...

Need health care coverage? Just dial 1-800-F**KYO to reach Obamacare’s national hotline (http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/need-health-care-coverage-just-dial-1-800-fuckyo-to-reach-obamacares-national-hotline/)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Yanky on October 03, 2013, 08:24:48 PM
I don't have time to call or apply for info, a family with gross income $85,000 and 3-4 children how much will it cost to get the new Obama Care and does Obama Care cover out-of-network.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: meshugener on October 03, 2013, 08:45:45 PM
@chuchem:
$250 is for one person?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on October 04, 2013, 01:06:52 PM
I don't have time to call or apply for info, a family with gross income $85,000 and 3-4 children how much will it cost to get the new Obama Care and does Obama Care cover out-of-network.

Oh me me me, pick me!!!! We all have tons of time to check it up for you  :o

Obamacare is not an insurance plan, it just mandates certain services and rules. Insurance companies generally will only pay for medical expenses provided by hospitals and doctors that they "cover".
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Yanky on October 04, 2013, 01:55:53 PM
Oh me me me, pick me!!!! We all have tons of time to check it up for you  :o

Obamacare is not an insurance plan, it just mandates certain services and rules. Insurance companies generally will only pay for medical expenses provided by hospitals and doctors that they "cover".
They claim it's affordable healthcare, how does it get affordable?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Adlebo on October 04, 2013, 03:38:06 PM
Does anyone know if the web site automatically checks and verifies your income through previous tax return info?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Solomon on October 06, 2013, 11:52:53 AM
Does anyone know if the web site automatically checks and verifies your income through previous tax return info?
hard to believe, because they need your consent to get ur tax return from the IRS
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: HP58 on October 06, 2013, 12:16:05 PM
hard to believe, because they need your consent to get ur tax return from the IRS
You never know with the government that brought you the NSA scandal...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 06, 2013, 01:42:40 PM
You don't need to upload your tax return?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: MarkS on October 06, 2013, 02:01:04 PM
Supposedly you need to enter the amount from prior year tax return. The system checks to see if it matched the return that the IRS has on file. If it does that income amount is accepted as true but if it doesn't match you need to send in proof (i guess paystubs) of current income.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Adlebo on October 06, 2013, 05:34:00 PM
Supposedly you need to enter the amount from prior year tax return. The system checks to see if it matched the return that the IRS has on file. If it does that income amount is accepted as true but if it doesn't match you need to send in proof (i guess paystubs) of current income.
So if I understand correctly, if you provide pay stubs, you prove that the return they have on file is wrong? Weird.
Also what if someone made lots of money but currently is making borcht, why should he be penalized for last year's income?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 06, 2013, 05:59:27 PM
Also what if someone made lots of money but currently is making borcht, why should he be penalized for last year's income?
עשיר והעני... עני והעשיר...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 06, 2013, 06:04:52 PM
Not sure if this is the correct thread, but what do people think if one has a plan that is conditioned on being outside of the USA most of the year, what happens if the dependent does reside in the US?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: MarkS on October 06, 2013, 07:20:01 PM
To clarify.
If you are still making the same that you made last year, and you enter that amount, and it matches last years tax return.
If you enter an amount different than last years (either more or less) you need to prove it with current pay stubs.

Obviously what is important is what you are making now, and if that's different than what you made last year they use current #'s - but you have to prove it. 
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on October 06, 2013, 08:10:24 PM
They claim it's affordable healthcare, how does it get affordable?
Non-sequitur?

For ppl who have struggled to traditionally get health insurance it is supposed to be relatively affordable.

Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: KidOOO on October 07, 2013, 12:54:00 PM
Does anyone know if the web site automatically checks and verifies your income through previous tax return info?

When i entered last years income the website told me that "this information does not seem to match records we have" and asked me to pick a reason for that (like new job, making more money etc.)

So then i put in what iv'e earned this year so far, but same message popped up. only when i put in the amount that i will be making for the whole 2013 (estimate) it went through
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 09, 2013, 10:53:17 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/04/news/economy/obamacare-costs/index.html
People are complaining about a $25 plan with a $1500 deductible. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 09, 2013, 10:56:09 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/09/news/economy/obamacare-insurance-sick/
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: aryeh1 on October 15, 2013, 11:05:26 AM
Latest is they worked it and out and are reopening with some changes to Obamacare.Anyone know what the changes are?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: AsherO on October 15, 2013, 02:42:57 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/04/news/economy/obamacare-costs/index.html
People are complaining about a $25 plan with a $1500 deductible. Unbelievable.

Drop me a line when that's available in NYC...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: KidOOO on October 15, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
At first I thought this was a joke, but it actually makes sense.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 22, 2013, 07:28:24 PM
http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/21/who-said-it-president-obama-or-an-infomercial/
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2013, 12:59:41 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/21/technology/obamacare-website-contracts/index.html

"It cost the federal government more than $300 million for outside contractors to set up the Obamacare website that has had so much trouble in its first three weeks of operation."
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: menachem_m on October 23, 2013, 01:15:51 AM
http://youtu.be/2Qtx_ZcHOjw
Must see. Last 2 min are brilliant.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 23, 2013, 02:11:06 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/21/technology/obamacare-website-contracts/index.html

"It cost the federal government more than $300 million for outside contractors to set up the Obamacare website that has had so much trouble in its first three weeks of operation."
$300 million to build a website?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: notanonymous on October 23, 2013, 02:53:54 AM
$300 million to build a website?
Considering how much the government could have spent, I think it is a good deal.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: AJK on October 23, 2013, 10:20:49 AM
Considering how much the government could have spent, I think it is a good deal.

 ;D
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 23, 2013, 10:53:16 AM
Considering how much the government could have spent, and how much they would have gotten for it, I think it is a good deal.
FTFY
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 23, 2013, 04:48:13 PM
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303448104579149642030106938
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on October 23, 2013, 04:56:39 PM
Scary article. Probably overstated but scary nonetheless.

In Canada, the government basically pays for schooling for doctors and it's VERY competitive to get in. A lot of people go to the states because they can't get in in Canada. That would never happen in the states but it would solve one of the issues
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 23, 2013, 05:11:37 PM
Scary article. Probably overstated but scary nonetheless.

In Canada, the government basically pays for schooling for doctors and it's VERY competitive to get in. A lot of people go to the states because they can't get in in Canada. That would never happen in the states but it would solve one of the issues
Still, the shortage of doctors in Canada is scary...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on October 23, 2013, 10:49:47 PM
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303448104579149642030106938

Great article, really articulates the potential problems in easy to understand language!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 23, 2013, 11:51:10 PM
Great article, really articulates the potential problems in easy to understand language!

But Obama said the ACA is good!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 24, 2013, 07:28:06 AM
But Obama said the ACA is good!
Boy do I have a bridge to sell you... :P
Title: Healthcare.gov
Post by: good sam on October 24, 2013, 04:07:28 PM
Or in NY:
nystateofhealth.ny.gov

Anyone try it? Had issues? Please share.

Trying it now. Will provide feedback when done.
Title: Re: Healthcare.gov
Post by: good sam on October 24, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
Update:

Took about half and hour to complete application.  Here is my result:

Quote
Eligibility Determination

Below are the eligibility results for health coverage for everyone on the application. This tells you what program each person qualifies for and the amount of help paying for health coverage the person can receive, if any.

Call the Marketplace at 1-855-355-5777 (TTY 1-800-662-1220) if you have questions about how your eligibility was determined.

The Marketplace is experiencing technical difficulties and cannot verify the information that you have told us at this time. The Marketplace will reach out to you if additional information is needed to process your application.

Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: KidOOO on October 25, 2013, 12:01:12 AM
I actually managed to finally see pricing. and noticed a new company called oscar. i checked their website and was pretty amazed, turns out they are a Healthcare Start Up, if their services are as good and neat as their website, i am sold!

https://www.hioscar.com

http://www.businessinsider.com/oscar-plans-to-revolutionize-health-insurance-2013-10
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 25, 2013, 09:59:02 AM
I actually managed to finally see pricing. and noticed a new company called oscar. i checked their website and was pretty amazed, turns out they are a Healthcare Start Up, if their services are as good and neat as their website, i am sold!

https://www.hioscar.com

http://www.businessinsider.com/oscar-plans-to-revolutionize-health-insurance-2013-10
Just noticed their ads this week on the NYC subway.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Lou Bob on October 25, 2013, 10:06:08 AM
I actually managed to finally see pricing. and noticed a new company called oscar. i checked their website and was pretty amazed, turns out they are a Healthcare Start Up, if their services are as good and neat as their website, i am sold!

https://www.hioscar.com

http://www.businessinsider.com/oscar-plans-to-revolutionize-health-insurance-2013-10
are you serious? I personally would be scared to deal with a startup.
 If ur sold on purely what the website looks like....
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: KidOOO on October 25, 2013, 10:29:56 AM
are you serious? I personally would be scared to deal with a startup.
 If ur sold on purely what the website looks like....

if their services are as good and neat as their website, i am sold!


Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Lou Bob on October 25, 2013, 12:25:34 PM

and ur willing to be the genuine pig?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 25, 2013, 02:18:04 PM
and ur willing to be the genuine pig?
an imitation pig would be bad enough...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Lou Bob on October 25, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
an imitation pig would be bad enough...
oops :-)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: KidOOO on October 26, 2013, 07:53:52 PM
don't be so sure old insurance companies will be any better, these are new plans for all companies, and everyone is going to share the pain
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 26, 2013, 07:59:53 PM
I heard 800,00 people in NJ alone are getting booted off their insurance plans due to Obama care
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: zale on October 28, 2013, 10:47:25 PM
I must say, i am surprise how a country like the usa doesnt have a good health system. Let me explain how the swiss works and see if you like it

Basic insurance is mandatory. The government decides whats covered under Basic insurance, but all the normal sickness, treatments and medicins are.
Whoever doesnt have insurance, the government will give you one against your will and force you to pay. There are alot of companies offering this Basic insurance and you are free to pick whatever one you want, but they all gibe the exact same benefits. The insurance company has to accept everyone, no matter in what condition.

If someone cant afford the insurance, then the government will pay for it after checking your income

Any premium plan (private Hospitals, Spezialist, special treatments) is not under government rules and they can deny people entrance at free will

Like this everyone is covered for basics, i might be paying more as a healthy person, as i have to, but hey thats life...

The Basic insurance for a swiss person is about 250 dollars a month. My wife has a premium insurance (free doctor choice, private room after birth... just more choices) thats about extra 150 dollars a month

What do you think?

What exactly is a "health system"?

Private insurance was doing just fine here until every Tom, Dick and Harry decided to sue their doctors for malpractice. To cover their own insane insurances that have skyrocketed as a result of constant lawsuits, doctors started charging more for visits, which ultimately resulted in private insurances skyrocketing for customers.

So, instead of passing legislation limiting who and for what can sue their doctor, we... kill the private insurance industry?

What Europe and Europeans never seem to understand is that the government is NOT your mommy and daddy. They cannot and should not tell you what type of health coverage you need, and they should not be paying for your healthcare.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 28, 2013, 10:50:09 PM
So my health insurance plan is being discontinued next year due to Obamacare.
I signed up in May 2010, apparently 37 days too late to be grandfathered into it.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: zale on October 28, 2013, 10:57:16 PM
So my health insurance plan is being discontinued next year due to Obamacare.
I signed up in May 2010, apparently 37 days too late to be grandfathered into it.

What are you paying now? What will you be paying with O'care?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 28, 2013, 10:57:49 PM
So my health insurance plan is being discontinued next year due to Obamacare.
I signed up in May 2010, apparently 37 days too late to be grandfathered into it.

Is it the only deal you ever missed? ;)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 28, 2013, 11:02:46 PM
What are you paying now? What will you be paying with O'care?
Before Talia we were paying $560.22/month for the 3 of us with a $1,500 deductible and 100% coverage with no copay after deductible and 100% coverage with no copay on preventative visits at any time.
Both the premium and deductible are tax-deductible as I'm self-employed and use an HSA.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: zale on October 28, 2013, 11:16:02 PM
Before Talia we were paying $560.22/month for the 3 of us with a $1,500 deductible and 100% coverage with no copay after deductible and 100% coverage with no copay on preventative visits at any time.
Both the premium and deductible are tax-deductible as I'm self-employed and use an HSA.

What will you pay now with ACA?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 28, 2013, 11:16:58 PM
What will you pay now with ACA?
Not going to find out until next year.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 29, 2013, 12:43:52 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-knew-millions-wouldn-t-be-able-to-keep-insurance--report-222249311.html
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 29, 2013, 10:57:54 AM
Anyone been listening to Savage recently?  He is right: "Give Obamacare a chance!"

The surest way to secure a win in the midterm elections is let them implement this so everyone can see what a train-wreck it is.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 29, 2013, 11:00:38 AM
Anyone been listening to Savage recently?  He is right: "Give Obamacare a chance!"

The surest way to secure a win in the midterm elections is let them implement this so everyone can see what a train-wreck it is.
It takes 1000 men to rebuild what one child can destroy.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: YankyDoodle on October 29, 2013, 12:41:02 PM
It takes 1000 men to rebuild what one child can destroy.

Exactly, once it's in place it will be much more difficult to overhaul.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 29, 2013, 05:53:31 PM
Here it is, was waiting for it:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-obamacare-20131029,0,5695979.story#axzz2j9NgTJej

Any issue with obamacare which may seem like an issue is not really an issue.  All is well in the world.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: skyguy918 on October 29, 2013, 08:03:03 PM
Here it is, was waiting for it:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-obamacare-20131029,0,5695979.story#axzz2j9NgTJej

Any issue with obamacare which may seem like an issue is not really an issue.  All is well in the world.

His point #1 response is particularly idiotic. The point isn't just that Obama knew people would be forced out of their existing plans, it's that he repeated over and over again that if you like what you have you can keep it, despite knowing otherwise.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 29, 2013, 08:40:56 PM
I don't get it, saying that he DIDN'T know about it (while all the conservatives were earning about it from the beginning) would make him sound really nearsighted...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 29, 2013, 08:43:57 PM
I don't get it, saying that he DIDN'T know about it (while all the conservatives were earning about it from the beginning) would make him sound really nearsighted...

אז ממה נפשך הוא ממזר
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 29, 2013, 08:45:06 PM
Quote from: yuneeq link=topic=32670.msg614014#hmsg614014 date=1383093837
אז ממה נפשך הוא ממזר
That we knew from the beginning, question is, I'd he evil or a fool?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 29, 2013, 09:12:34 PM
A friend of mine with one kid, family is healthy bh, started to make a little more money and wants to move up to private insurance. He was quoted by a broker 20k a year as the cheapest decent plan! And it even comes with a $2,500 deductible.

Insane!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: itsyehuda on October 29, 2013, 09:16:15 PM
A friend of mine with one kid, family is healthy bh, started to make a little more money and wants to move up to private insurance. He was quoted by a broker 20k a year as the cheapest decent plan! And it even comes with a $2,500 deductible.

Insane!

It's not much better from a small - medium business.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 29, 2013, 09:30:23 PM
A friend of mine with one kid, family is healthy bh, started to make a little more money and wants to move up to private insurance. He was quoted by a broker 20k a year as the cheapest decent plan! And it even comes with a $2,500 deductible.

Insane!
Sounds very high to me.

Before Talia we were paying $560.22/month for the 3 of us with a $1,500 deductible and 100% coverage with no copay after deductible and 100% coverage with no copay on preventative visits at any time.
Both the premium and deductible are tax-deductible as I'm self-employed and use an HSA.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: MarkS on October 29, 2013, 09:38:55 PM
Sounds very high to me.
I wonder where this guy lives. NY and NJ already have high premiums and in fact are supposedly some of the few states that will actually have lower premiums under obamacare.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: claker on October 29, 2013, 10:07:50 PM
I wonder where this guy lives. NY and NJ already have high premiums and in fact are supposedly some of the few states that will actually have lower premiums under obamacare.

I wouldn't count on it....

I live in NY and just received notice that my policy is cancelled as of year end and replaced with a new one....with a 35% increase in premium and some other changes including a new provider network that none of my doctors are on.

My broker is looking for options but warned me that  any new policy will come with similar premium increases or higher
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 29, 2013, 10:48:56 PM
I wonder where this guy lives. NY and NJ already have high premiums and in fact are supposedly some of the few states that will actually have lower premiums under obamacare.

NY

I wouldn't blame him if he starts looking for ways to be poor!
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: zale on October 30, 2013, 12:21:11 AM
I don't understand how people are only waking up now.

Conservatives were screaming themselves dry about the real facts of Obamacare since way back in 2009, but nobody gave a damn. Mitt Romney hammered Obama in the debates about it, but again, nobody gave a damn.

What changed now? Why do people suddenly care? NOW you start wondering why your insurance dropped you?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on October 30, 2013, 12:58:09 AM
I don't understand how people are only waking up now.

Conservatives were screaming themselves dry about the real facts of Obamacare since way back in 2009, but nobody gave a damn. Mitt Romney hammered Obama in the debates about it, but again, nobody gave a damn.

What changed now? Why do people suddenly care? NOW you start wondering why your insurance dropped you?

Most of us here gave a damn and voted that way. We always cared, and we knew this would happen. But having knowledge of a hurricane's path doesn't make it hurt any less when it hits.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Achas Veachas on October 30, 2013, 07:13:55 AM
Knowing the GOP they'll let this pass and you won't even hear about it come election time...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 30, 2013, 10:46:17 AM
Most of us here gave a damn and voted that way.
- Meshugener
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: AsherO on October 30, 2013, 11:02:29 AM
I wouldn't count on it....

I live in NY and just received notice that my policy is cancelled as of year end and replaced with a new one....with a 35% increase in premium and some other changes including a new provider network that none of my doctors are on.

My broker is looking for options but warned me that  any new policy will come with similar premium increases or higher

Damn insurance cos are smart, they're raising the premiums and blaming it on Obama.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 30, 2013, 11:21:40 AM
Damn insurance cos are smart, they're raising the premiums and blaming it on Obama.
no...they're raising premiums because they're canceling all their bare-bone "catastrophic" plans which are no longer up to snuff under ACA.  They're replacing them with beefed up plans which are obviously going to be significantly more expensive.

Of course we (or rather, people familiar with the provisions of the act) knew that ins. cos were going to be required to beef up plans.  We also knew that existing plans were going to be grandfathered in, as Obama promised.

However, HHS regulations adopted pursuant to the ACA require that any plan which has undergone changes since 2010- as minor as changes to premium, deductible, co-pays, or coverage- lose grandfathered status.  This essentially blunts the grandfather clause.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: itsyehuda on October 30, 2013, 12:49:33 PM
no...they're raising premiums because they're canceling all their bare-bone "catastrophic" plans which are no longer up to snuff under ACA.  They're replacing them with beefed up plans which are obviously going to be significantly more expensive.

Of course we (or rather, people familiar with the provisions of the act) knew that ins. cos were going to be required to beef up plans.  We also knew that existing plans were going to be grandfathered in, as Obama promised.

However, HHS regulations adopted pursuant to the ACA require that any plan which has undergone changes since 2010- as minor as changes to premium, deductible, co-pays, or coverage- lose grandfathered status.  This essentially blunts the grandfather clause.

Well said.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 30, 2013, 01:34:12 PM
Liars Liars Liars

Quote
Sebelius said Obama had not broken his promise because plans that have existed since the law was signed have had the option of remaining unchanged.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-healthcare-website-20131030,0,1315422.story
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: zale on October 30, 2013, 01:58:18 PM
no...they're raising premiums because they're canceling all their bare-bone "catastrophic" plans which are no longer up to snuff under ACA.  They're replacing them with beefed up plans which are obviously going to be significantly more expensive.

Of course we (or rather, people familiar with the provisions of the act) knew that ins. cos were going to be required to beef up plans.  We also knew that existing plans were going to be grandfathered in, as Obama promised.

However, HHS regulations adopted pursuant to the ACA require that any plan which has undergone changes since 2010- as minor as changes to premium, deductible, co-pays, or coverage- lose grandfathered status.  This essentially blunts the grandfather clause.

These "catastrophic" plans have sufficed for millions of Americans. A healthy American does not need to visit the doctor twice a week. Most American families consist of one or two children, and so maternity coverage is not all that important. Many people pay for specialized dental procedures (i.e. root canals, crowns etc.) in cash, and they are not required that often.

Regarding hospital coverage, for those that don't have it in their plan, if they do end up in the hospital, they opt to settle with the hospital with a long term payout plan and a highly reduced bill.

And now for the most idiotic requirement of Obamacare:

"The Affordable Care Act requires plans and issuers that offer dependent coverage to make the coverage available until a child reaches the age of 26. Both married and unmarried children qualify for this coverage"

First, at 26 you should be making your own damn living, not living off of your parents. What the hell has this country come to?

Second, married children included? I'm not even going to begin commenting on this one...
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: AsherO on October 30, 2013, 02:08:02 PM
no...they're raising premiums because they're canceling all their bare-bone "catastrophic" plans which are no longer up to snuff under ACA.  They're replacing them with beefed up plans which are obviously going to be significantly more expensive.

Of course we (or rather, people familiar with the provisions of the act) knew that ins. cos were going to be required to beef up plans.  We also knew that existing plans were going to be grandfathered in, as Obama promised.

However, HHS regulations adopted pursuant to the ACA require that any plan which has undergone changes since 2010- as minor as changes to premium, deductible, co-pays, or coverage- lose grandfathered status.  This essentially blunts the grandfather clause.

And they're happy to sell you a more expensive plan with a higher premium (and more profits in their pocket), that's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 30, 2013, 02:11:19 PM
First, at 26 you should be making your own damn living, not living off of your parents. What the hell has this country the yeshiva velt come to?
With one minor change you sound like a lot of people I know.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: meshugener on October 30, 2013, 05:02:58 PM
I gotta admit, the ACA is disappointing.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on October 30, 2013, 05:07:02 PM
I gotta admit, the ACA is disappointing.
::)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on October 30, 2013, 05:14:13 PM
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q79/s720x720/1450230_609829142405908_619275893_n.jpg)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: alpicone on October 30, 2013, 05:19:17 PM
And people had a choice when it came to the Titanic.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: good sam on November 01, 2013, 11:18:33 AM
Well, the numbers are out.  How many people signed up on Oct 1? 8 Million? 1 Million? 100 Thousand?

A whopping 6 people!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/10/31/house-releases-notes-showing-health-site-woes/3331901/
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on November 01, 2013, 11:52:40 AM
Well, the numbers are out.  How many people signed up on Oct 1? 8 Million? 1 Million? 100 Thousand?

A whopping 6 people!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/10/31/house-releases-notes-showing-health-site-woes/3331901/

"We do not have any reliable data around enrollment, which is why we haven't given it to date," Sebelius said."

Imagine an insurance company or any company for that matter not knowing how many customers they have? The efficiency of government is truly amazing.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on November 01, 2013, 11:56:04 AM
I agree with all this. But this stuff is meaningless in the long run as to whether this will be good or bad policy. It's just sensationalist news


ETA: if it was unclear I am referring to the technology problems and not the actual costs and coverage
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: zale on November 01, 2013, 01:10:29 PM
I agree with all this. But this stuff is meaningless in the long run as to whether this will be good or bad policy. It's just sensationalist news

Almost two million people have been BOOTED off of their insurance, and another 14 million are expected to be booted as well. You call that "sensationalist news"? Where the hell are you from?

This is going EXACTLY as the conservatives predicted. If you think this is bad, wait until the site starts working and people start seeing the cost of their new communist insurance plans.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on November 01, 2013, 02:49:09 PM
Almost two million people have been BOOTED off of their insurance, and another 14 million are expected to be booted as well. You call that "sensationalist news"? Where the hell are you from?

This is going EXACTLY as the conservatives predicted. If you think this is bad, wait until the site starts working and people start seeing the cost of their new communist insurance plans.
No the fact that only six people signed up the first day. It's ridiculous that they had so many problems with the technology but in the end if the day that will have no effect on the long term outcome of the bill (which I agree is not likely to end well). The fact that that is getting so much press when it really means nothing is sensationalist news.
And no reason to get all upset and use bad language. It is possible to have a civilized conversation about something (especially when you didn't even understand what I said)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: yuneeq on November 01, 2013, 03:02:22 PM
.It is possible to have a civilized conversation about something (especially when you didn't even understand what I said)

I agree he should be civil. But its also possible for you to not say ridiculous things that can only be understood with further clarification. (And then you can also not pretend like you were not so ridiculous, like anyone could understand what you meant)
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on November 01, 2013, 03:26:11 PM
I agree he should be civil. But its also possible for you to not say ridiculous things that can only be understood with further clarification. (And then you can also not pretend like you were not so ridiculous, like anyone could understand what you meant)
Sorry. I thought it was clear that I was responding to the posts right before mine. I should have quoted. I apologize.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 05, 2013, 05:21:45 PM
Serious question: When ObamaCare goes into full effect, will it mean that if someones employer offers coverage (-that they charge lots for), that they will no longer be eligible for JC even if they meet the low income levels?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: DovtheBear on November 07, 2013, 11:53:46 PM
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on November 15, 2013, 12:13:27 AM
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSBRE9AD10520131114?irpc=932
What a train wreck
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on November 19, 2013, 01:47:43 AM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/19/woman-cited-by-president-as-obamacare-success-story-frustrated-by-sign-up-process/
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: CountValentine on November 19, 2013, 01:54:13 AM
Before Talia we were paying $560.22/month for the 3 of us with a $1,500 deductible and 100% coverage with no copay after deductible and 100% coverage with no copay on preventative visits at any time.
Both the premium and deductible are tax-deductible as I'm self-employed and use an HSA.
Is this a HMO. That is super cheap.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on November 19, 2013, 02:05:29 AM
PPO
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: CountValentine on November 19, 2013, 02:08:58 AM
PPO
My BCBS policy is not even that good at about 15k/yr.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: A3 on November 19, 2013, 07:37:59 AM
Before Talia we were paying $560.22/month for the 3 of us with a $1,500 deductible and 100% coverage with no copay after deductible and 100% coverage with no copay on preventative visits at any time.
Both the premium and deductible are tax-deductible as I'm self-employed and use an HSA.

It also depends where you live. I had the same policy without the free preventive visits. And added on maternity which was only limited. For $740 a month in FL. when I moved to NY they wanted around $2200 for the same think same company. Cancelled it and we are now on Medicaid.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Dan on November 19, 2013, 10:12:50 AM
That's what the govt wants.
But who moved from FL to NY?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: mmermss on December 25, 2013, 09:00:53 AM
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/million-lines-of-code/
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: rockstarhockstar on August 20, 2015, 10:48:33 AM
What would happen of applied for Obamacare/Medicaid with an income that contradicts my cc applications?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: username on August 20, 2015, 10:53:53 AM
YMMV

Paul Humphreys, the former CFO of Safety-Kleen hazardous waste disposal company, was sentenced to almost six years in prison after pleading guilty to securities and bank fraud charges. The $267 million fraud occurred between 1998 and 2000, and involved artificially inflating earnings to meet earnings targets and manipulate the stock price.

Bernard “Bernie” Ebbers, the former CEO of WorldCom, was convicted on nine criminal counts related to the company’s $11 billion accounting fraud. He received 25 years in prison.

Martha Stewart received a sentence of five months in prison, and almost six months of home confinement after her conviction on charges of conspiracy, obstruction of justice and making false statements related to a personal sale of ImClone Systems stock.

Jeffrey Skilling, former Enron CEO, received a sentence of more than 24 years in prison following his conviction on 19 counts of fraud, conspiracy, insider trading, and lying to auditors.

The one thing that all of these sentences have in common is that they have a very wide range.
How do we decide what is really fair in white-collar crime cases? Of course the amount of money lost by innocent victims plays a part in sentencing. Naturally, mitigating factors play a part too, as defendants tout their charity work, clean criminal histories, and repentance.
It is common to hear of cases of embezzlement or other corporate fraud in which the perpetrators receive what appears to be unusually light sentences. Yet there is really no clear line between fair and unfair when discussing sentences for white-collar crimes.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: rockstarhockstar on August 20, 2015, 11:32:33 AM
What I'm asking is, on my cc apps I may be generous sometimes with the income, on the Medicaid application I would probably be very straightforward. What are the odds that they would decide to audit a random person [not a CEO or famous person with their own line of products]?
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on August 20, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
I love how "generous" means lying.

Medicaid won't have access to what you report on your cc applications, so you won't have a problem their.
What people are saying is that you can be prosecuted for lying on your CC applications. This is unlikely, unless you really prop up your income and default on your cards
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: clear thinker on August 20, 2015, 01:11:01 PM
I love how "generous" means lying.

Medicaid won't have access to what you report on your cc applications, so you won't have a problem their.
What people are saying is that you can be prosecuted for lying on your CC applications. This is unlikely, unless you really prop up your income and default on your cards
Can't I include "any income that I wish to be considered as basis for repayment"? AKA my father's income, my brother's income etc...
I swipe for them so I use their money to repay.....
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: Ergel on August 21, 2015, 12:22:53 AM
No
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: rockstarhockstar on August 22, 2015, 11:15:16 PM
I love how "generous" means lying.

Medicaid won't have access to what you report on your cc applications, so you won't have a problem their.
What people are saying is that you can be prosecuted for lying on your CC applications. This is unlikely, unless you really prop up your income and default on your cards

Actually, when I say generous I mean that I include more than I make, but it's okay to include your parents' income in that number if they are supporting you which is the case with me. But when I file taxes I am an independent as I live in another state.
Title: Re: ObamaCare Is Live
Post by: rockstarhockstar on August 22, 2015, 11:18:16 PM
No

I've looked into this more than once and the answer was always yes. I even called discover and after the rep spoke to her supervisor she reaffirmed it [even though she was initially insistent that I was wrong].