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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:22:08 PM

Title: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:22:08 PM
Without getting personal please...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Penguin711 on February 19, 2014, 01:23:27 PM
Woah talk about a thread that needs a controversial warning in the title
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 01:24:11 PM
Uhm how do u answer this question with out getting personal
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:24:31 PM
Woah talk about a thread that needs a controversial warning in the title
Vote first. Controversy later.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:25:29 PM
Uhm how do u answer this question with out getting personal
I meant no vindictive comments or personal attacks.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: ilherman on February 19, 2014, 01:25:41 PM
Woah talk about a thread that needs a controversial warning in the title
It's not about the title, Rather about the OP.... I know he is the OP without opening the thread.

Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Dr Moose on February 19, 2014, 01:26:16 PM
why is this in General Discussion?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:26:23 PM
It's not about the title, Rather about the OP.... I know he is the OP without opening the thread.

I meant no vindictive comments or personal attacks.

Please...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 01:27:48 PM
New question: why would you hit your kids?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 01:29:00 PM
why is this in General Discussion?

Maybe he's offering two hits for one offense
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 01:30:09 PM

Maybe he's offering two hits for one offense
That should be in the deals thread.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:30:26 PM
New question: why would you hit your kids?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90406


Poll: Most Approve of Spanking Kids
Nov. 8
Analysis


The public by a 2-1 margin approves of spanking children in principle, and half of parents say they sometimes do it to their own kids, an ABCNEWS poll found. But an overwhelming majority disapproves of corporal punishment in schools.

Sixty-five percent of Americans approve of spanking children, a rate that has been steady since 1990. But just 26 percent say grade-school teachers should be allowed to spank kids at school; 72 percent say it shouldn't be permitted, including eight in 10 parents of grade-schoolers.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Moishel on February 19, 2014, 01:31:32 PM
Define hitting, did a symbolic gesture without inflicting physical pain count?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:32:02 PM
Define hitting, did a symbolic gesture without inflicting physical pain count?
Define "Symbolic"  ;D
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 01:32:10 PM
I don't think American approval ratings answers my question
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 01:32:55 PM
IMO if you need to you your kids there is something wrong with your chinuch
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 01:34:59 PM

IMO if you need to you your kids there is something wrong with your chinuch
+.9999 there are extreme situations where hitting may be necessary.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 01:39:33 PM
IMO if you need to you your kids there is something wrong with your chinuch

what if you just WANT to
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
+.9999 there are extreme situations where hitting may be necessary.
For example?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: ilherman on February 19, 2014, 01:40:18 PM
Without elaborating, as King Solomon says when you never hit your kids, it means you don't like them. It definitely has to be done with Seichel, meaning you can't hit your kid because you're posting on DDF and he keeps on shlepping you to play with him, just get off DDF and do what a father has to do. Dont get in Kays and give him a smake. etc etc etc I am always thinking, do I wonna smake him because he shouldn't do it next time OR because im angry, you can't hit because you're angry.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Penguin711 on February 19, 2014, 01:41:28 PM

For example?

Kid running into the street. Touching fire/the stove. Etc. A one time event that they need to learn something crucial that isn't sufficient taught verbally.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 01:42:22 PM

For example?
Any situation where the child's well being is in grave danger (such as running in the street) and your hitting them is the most effective way to prevent this from happening. I would add that even in such situations the parent must be certain that they are not hitting out of anger or frustration.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 01:44:27 PM

Without elaborating, as King Solomon says when you never hit your kids, it means you don't like them. It definitely has to be done with Seichel, meaning you can't hit your kid because you're posting on DDF and he keeps on shlepping you to play with him, just get off DDF and do what a father has to do. Dont get in Kays and give him a smake. etc etc etc I am always thinking, do I wonna smake him because he shouldn't do it next time OR because im angry, you can't hit because you're angry.
i think almost universally all present day gedolim do not feel the Talmud and king Solomon's lines about hitting children apply today
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Moishel on February 19, 2014, 01:45:28 PM
Without elaborating, as King Solomon says when you never hit your kids, it means you don't like them. It definitely has to be done with Seichel, meaning you can't hit your kid because you're posting on DDF and he keeps on shlepping you to play with him, just get off DDF and do what a father has to do. Dont get in Kays and give him a smake. etc etc etc I am always thinking, do I wonna smake him because he shouldn't do it next time OR because im angry, you can't hit because you're angry.
You seriously smake your kids?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 01:45:53 PM
Kid running into the street. Touching fire/the stove. Etc. A one time event that they need to learn something crucial that isn't sufficient taught verbally.

Any situation where the child's well being is in grave danger (such as running in the street) and your hitting them is the most effective way to prevent this from happening. I would add that even in such situations the parent must be certain that they are not hitting out of anger or frustration.

Actually, negative reinforcement will only prevent your child from doing that behavior in front of the parents but will increase their desire to do it away from the parents.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Moishel on February 19, 2014, 01:46:40 PM
Define "Symbolic"  ;D
without inflicting physical pain
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
I only hit my children in self defense...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 01:51:58 PM
Kid running into the street. Touching fire/the stove. Etc. A one time event that they need to learn something crucial that isn't sufficient taught verbally.
In principle, I agree. However, I personally believe you can make the same point verbally. Chastise the kid to the point of tears and you accomplish the same thing
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: ilherman on February 19, 2014, 01:52:30 PM
You seriously smake your kids?
I think the OP asked not to get personal....

I probably smaked 3 times (my kid is 3) and to mention, smaking does not mean beating up a kid, just taking his hands and give a little Dada is more then enough (it shouldn't hurt them, they get the message anyways)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Dr Moose on February 19, 2014, 01:54:06 PM
I only hit my children in self defense...
:))
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Moishel on February 19, 2014, 01:54:44 PM
Actually, negative reinforcement will only prevent your child from doing that behavior in front of the parents but will increase their desire to do it away from the parents.
Hitting is not negative reinforcement, negative reinforcement means removing a positive stimuli, i.e. timeout or taking away a toy.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 01:54:50 PM
What kids are missing these days is a little discipline. Smack em till they learn the lesson.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 01:55:07 PM
i think almost universally all present day gedolim do not feel the Talmud and king Solomon's lines about hitting children apply today
I assume they think it applies just define it as discipline
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Moishel on February 19, 2014, 01:56:50 PM
I think the OP asked not to get personal....

I probably smaked 3 times (my kid is 3) and to mention, smaking does not mean beating up a kid, just taking his hands and give a little Dada is more then enough (it shouldn't hurt them, they get the message anyways)
I still can't believe you smake them, if you would just be smacking them then we can debate pro and con, but smaking is inexcusable.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 01:58:30 PM

In principle, I agree. However, I personally believe you can make the same point verbally. Chastise the kid to the point of tears and you accomplish the same thing
i am not sure that does less negative damage
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 02:00:29 PM

I still can't believe you smake them, if you would just be smacking them then we can debate pro and con, but smaking is inexcusable.
so ur the רשי/רן guy
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Joe4007 on February 19, 2014, 02:01:44 PM
I still can't believe you smake them, if you would just be smacking them then we can debate pro and con, but smaking is inexcusable.
;D
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 02:11:44 PM

Hitting is not negative reinforcement, negative reinforcement means removing a positive stimuli, i.e. timeout or taking away a toy.
+1 Additionally, the negative outcome that the op described is a result of constant negative reinforcement. The intent in these situations is that it should not be recurring by making a strong enough impact on the kid that he/she doesn't do it again.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 02:19:03 PM
Without getting personal please...
I gotta admit you make DDF an exciting place to hang out.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 02:23:19 PM
I only hit my children in self defense...
LOL
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 02:26:35 PM
I gotta admit you make DDF an exciting place to hang out.
;)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 02:29:16 PM
Interesting that exactly 7 out of 21 voters don't hit their kid.

2/3rds perfectly represents the ABC poll of Americans that I linked.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 02:30:29 PM
I have another question: for those who do hit, at what age was the first time your kid got that lovely slap ?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 02:31:28 PM
I have another question: for those who do hit, at what age was the first time your kid got that lovely slap ?
and why?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 19, 2014, 02:32:42 PM
Any situation where the child's well being is in grave danger (such as running in the street) and your hitting them is the most effective way to prevent this from happening. I would add that even in such situations the parent must be certain that they are not hitting out of anger or frustration.
I'm unsure if you are referring to preventing the child from doing dangerous things in the future, or if you're talking about stopping a child who is in the act of doing something dangerous. Either way, I disagree:

 If you are referring to the most effective way to stop a child who is in the act of running into the street or touching the stove, hitting is certainly not the best way to accomplish that. If you are in close enough proximity to hit, then you would be much wiser to grab the kid by the arm and forcibly move them away from the street or stove. That action would save more lives than hitting would, most definitely. If you are not in close enough proximity to grab the child, and the child is about to run into the street or touch the stove, you should scream for them to stop and hope it works.

If you are referring to the most effective way to prevent the child from running into the street and touching the stove in the future, hitting, again, is a far cry from the most effective method. Depending on the child's age, different methods may be the most effective, but hitting is not even in the discussion in my book.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 02:32:48 PM

Interesting that exactly 7 out of 21 voters don't hit their kid.

2/3rds perfectly represents the ABC poll of Americans that I linked.
is there a poll that i don't see on the app?
21 people is not exactly a scientific study
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 02:37:01 PM
In principle, I agree. However, I personally believe you can make the same point verbally. Chastise the kid to the point of tears and you accomplish the same thing

Verbally abusing kids by yelling at them to the point of tears is the same as hitting. I would argue that "sticks and stones..."
My point is, that if you believe that today's children are extra sensitive and cannot deal with a potch, they most certainly cannot deal with a "verbal potch" either. 
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: AnonymousUser on February 19, 2014, 02:46:46 PM
is there a poll that i don't see on the app?
21 people is not exactly a scientific study
Polls don't show on Tapatalk.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Something Fishy on February 19, 2014, 02:47:47 PM
is there a poll that i don't see on the app?
21 people is not exactly a scientific study

No polls on Tapatalk.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 02:57:22 PM
What kids are missing these days is a little discipline. Smack em till they learn the lesson.

Everyone please listen to this:

www.torahanytime.com/listen-legacy-audio/?file=16465
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 02:58:42 PM
I have another question: for those who do hit, at what age was the first time your kid got that lovely slap ?
At birth.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 02:59:24 PM
At birth.
YOU hit them at birth?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 03:02:06 PM

I'm unsure if you are referring to preventing the child from doing dangerous things in the future, or if you're talking about stopping a child who is in the act of doing something dangerous. Either way, I disagree:

 If you are referring to the most effective way to stop a child who is in the act of running into the street or touching the stove, hitting is certainly not the best way to accomplish that. If you are in close enough proximity to hit, then you would be much wiser to grab the kid by the arm and forcibly move them away from the street or stove. That action would save more lives than hitting would, most definitely. If you are not in close enough proximity to grab the child, and the child is about to run into the street or touch the stove, you should scream for them to stop and hope it works.

If you are referring to the most effective way to prevent the child from running into the street and touching the stove in the future, hitting, again, is a far cry from the most effective method. Depending on the child's age, different methods may be the most effective, but hitting is not even in the discussion in my book.
I was referring to preventing the child from running in the street in the future. As to whether hitting is the most effective way to accomplish this was not my point ( although I was assuming it is). My point was that although hitting (or other quick fixes) may be the most effective way to get quick results it is almost never warranted because parenting is not just about getting  children to behave. It's a life long process and trading quick results for long term ones is short sighted.That being said there are situations where we need the quick result, like when child is running in the street, And must trade in the long term results for short term gains.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 03:06:58 PM
Speaking to a 'hitting parent', think about the last time you spanked your child. Think about the mood you were in. If you had just received a huge salary bonus or raise, and had been in a terrific mood, do you think you'd have still hit your child?

Probably not.

That means that the spanking can be attributed to your mood rather than the child's behavior.

Just something to think about.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 03:08:19 PM
Speaking to a 'hitting parent', think about the last time you spanked your child. Think about the mood you were in. If you had just received a huge salary bonus or raise, and had been in a terrific mood, do you think you'd have still hit your child?

Probably not.

That means that the spanking can be attributed to your mood rather than the child's behavior.

Just something to think about.
ah. So if you just got a nice raise at work, ur gonna let ur kid run into the street, cuz of ur mood?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 03:09:57 PM
Verbally abusing kids by yelling at them to the point of tears is the same as hitting. I would argue that "sticks and stones..."
My point is, that if you believe that today's children are extra sensitive and cannot deal with a potch, they most certainly cannot deal with a "verbal potch" either. 
I agree. Again we are talking about a situation where the kid needs to be taught that walking into the street (or climbing into a hot oven, depending on which child we are talking about) is life-threatening. I understand hitting in such a situation. I think verbally chastising is one step below that and that is what I choose to do. If you do anything less in such a situation I believe you are endangering the kid
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 03:11:05 PM
You need to change the poll "chinuch or life threatening situations" are not the same thing
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: rots5 on February 19, 2014, 03:12:19 PM
can we first determine at what age (one who does hit their kids) starts at. my kids to young. OP please put a - i am not sure yet.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Re Child running in the street "heter": Child breaks expensive glass at shabbos table, father blows up and yells etc.
Child plays with a muktza toy, father gently admonishes.
What really bothers the father? What does the child learn from this?
[/pre][/pre][/pre][/pre]
[/sup][/sup][/sup][/sup][/sup][/sup]
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 03:19:12 PM
Speaking to a 'hitting parent', think about the last time you spanked your child. Think about the mood you were in. If you had just received a huge salary bonus or raise, and had been in a terrific mood, do you think you'd have still hit your child?

Probably not.

That means that the spanking can be attributed to your mood rather than the child's behavior.

Just something to think about.

A hitting parent and one that gives a potch once in a blue moon are two different things.

Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:21:27 PM
IMHO, Actually, negative reinforcement will only prevent your child from doing that behavior in front of the parents but will increase their desire to do it away from the parents.
FTFY
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 03:22:23 PM
A hitting parent and one that gives a potch once in a blue moon are two different things.
You mean like the difference between smoking filtered and unfiltered?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 03:25:05 PM
can we first determine at what age (one who does hit their kids) starts at. my kids to young. OP please put a - i am not sure yet.
Please, please listen to this before you decide.  :-\

www.torahanytime.com/listen-legacy-audio/?file=16465

If there was any way I could convince you not to hit your kid... Please don't do it. If you want more info on the topic please PM me.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:26:46 PM
I must say that this generation (the first one with an anti discipline attitude) is producing the greatest products.

#sarcasm
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 03:28:45 PM

I must say that this generation (the first one with an anti discipline attitude) is producing the greatest products.

#sarcasm
and that can all be attributed to not hitting!?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:29:53 PM
Speaking to a 'hitting parent', think about the last time you spanked your child. Think about the mood you were in. If you had just received a huge salary bonus or raise, and had been in a terrific mood, do you think you'd have still hit your child?

Probably not.

That means that the spanking can be attributed to your mood rather than the child's behavior.

Just something to think about.
I disagree. If one just got a raise and he comes home all happy and he sees his kid run in the street he will most probably hit the kid.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: metziah on February 19, 2014, 03:30:12 PM
I think the next thread should be "Does Your Kid Hit You"?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 03:30:41 PM
YOU hit them at birth?
Slap on the butt.  :P
I cut the cord also. Do you guys do that?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:30:54 PM
and that can all be attributed to not hitting!?
of course not. I didn't write "hitting", I wrote "discipline".
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 19, 2014, 03:31:31 PM
I was referring to preventing the child from running in the street in the future. As to whether hitting is the most effective way to accomplish this was not my point ( although I was assuming it is). My point was that although hitting (or other quick fixes) may be the most effective way to get quick results it is almost never warranted because parenting is not just about getting  children to behave. It's a life long process and trading quick results for long term ones is short sighted.That being said there are situations where we need the quick result, like when child is running in the street, And must trade in the long term results for short term gains.
The above quote is thoroughly self contradictory. I'm at a loss.
You clarified for me that the topic you are discussing is preventing child from running into the street in the future. Not stopping them from running while they are running. Ok. Your stance on this topic is that hitting is appropriate. Then you say that a child running into the street is a situation where we need a quick result and that's why hitting is warranted. Huh? Why is a quick result necessary, unless you are in fact referring to stopping a child who is in the act of running into the street? You said so clearly that you are referring to preventing future running...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:31:37 PM
I think the next thread should be "Does Your Kid Hit You"?
That wouldn't be a poll. Everyone would answer yes  :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:31:48 PM
I must say that this generation (the first one with an anti discipline attitude) is producing the greatest products.

#sarcasm
+1
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Centro on February 19, 2014, 03:33:11 PM
It's not about the title, Rather about the OP.... I know he is the OP without opening the thread.
Thought it was just me.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 03:33:46 PM

I must say that this generation (the first one with an anti discipline attitude) is producing the greatest products.

#sarcasm

One of the great fallacies: that our generation is worse than all the ones before it.

Time for a looong history lesson.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:34:24 PM
I believe that a great parent that can instill in his child a deep belief in their love for their child, has more leeway when it comes to discipline.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 03:35:27 PM
One of the great fallacies: that our generation is worse than all the ones before it.

Time for a looong history lesson.
that's debatable. Start a new thread  ;)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 03:36:01 PM

The above quote is thoroughly self contradictory. I'm at a loss.
You clarified for me that the topic you are discussing is preventing child from running into the street in the future. Not stopping them from running while they are running. Ok. Your stance on this topic is that hitting is appropriate. Then you say that a child running into the street is a situation where we need a quick result and that's why hitting is warranted. Huh? Why is a quick result necessary, unless you are in fact referring to stopping a child who is in the act of running into the street? You said so clearly that you are referring to preventing future running...
My bad. When I said quick results I meant next few days/years, while they are still too young to appreciate the danger. As opposed  to long term results;how it will affect them when they get older
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:36:31 PM
One of the great fallacies: that our generation is worse than all the ones before it.

Time for a looong history lesson.
Why is that a fallacy?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:36:39 PM
One of the great fallacies: that our generation is worse than all the ones before it.

Time for a looong history lesson.
The egotism and spoiled nature and self centeredness of this generation is worse. That IMHO is a direct result of today's parenting.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Got a clue on February 19, 2014, 03:38:34 PM
Speaking to a 'hitting parent', think about the last time you spanked your child. Think about the mood you were in. If you had just received a huge salary bonus or raise, and had been in a terrific mood, do you think you'd have still hit your child?

Probably not.

That means that the spanking can be attributed to your mood rather than the child's behavior.

Just something to think about.


I have a few friends whose dads have a hitting jacket"- when they feel their kid deserves a smack, they first go to the closet and put on this jacket- this gives them time to cool down and assess if they are hitting due to their mood or the behavior of the kid
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 03:39:15 PM
The egotism and spoiled nature and self centeredness of this generation is worse. That IMHO is a direct result of today's parenting.
Its not the parenting, its the parents!
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:39:44 PM

I have a few friends whose dads have a hitting jacket"- when they feel their kid deserves a smack, they first go to the closet and put on this jacket- this gives them time to cool down and assess if they are hitting due to their mood or the behavior of the kid
Not sure why they would need a jacket. If they remember every time to get the jacket then they should remember to cool down.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:40:09 PM
Its not the parenting, its the parents!
Same thing
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 03:41:19 PM
Same thing
Doesn't seem to be obvious to some. The point is, that 98% of chinuch is not applied, its subconsciously absorbed.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Got a clue on February 19, 2014, 03:41:37 PM
Not sure why they would need a jacket. If they remember every time to get the jacket then they should remember to cool down.

Doing an action is diff then thinking
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 03:42:06 PM
The egotism and spoiled nature and self centeredness of this generation is worse. That IMHO is a direct result of today's parenting.
That is an almost word for word quote from Plato...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:42:24 PM
Doesn't seem to be obvious to some. The point is, that 98% of chinuch is not applied, its subconsciously absorbed.
true
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:42:39 PM
That is an almost word for word quote from Plato...
link
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 03:43:29 PM
can we first determine at what age (one who does hit their kids) starts at. my kids to young. OP please put a - i am not sure yet.
For you the question is: did your dad hit you?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 03:45:25 PM
link
Sorry Socrates...
Here. (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/63219-our-youth-now-love-luxury-they-have-bad-manners-contempt)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 19, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
A parent who consistently loses their cool and yells and contorts their face and furrows their brow and  pops their eyes out and gets red in the face over relatively insignificant things (like when the children got into a fight while parent was trying to concentrate on something important, or like when child fails to complete a task that the parent requested them to do twelve times, etc etc etc.), then the parent loses arguably the most important discipline tool they had: Expressing sincere frustration with the child's behavior. Yes this can and should be a very effective tool. All kids want to make their parents happy and proud. But if the parents lose their cool every other second, it becomes ineffective and meaningless (except that it still harms the child in many cases). So those parents may find that they must resort to hitting for situations like running in the street. Because the normal, healthy way to teach the child that a certain behavior is not ok, has been rendered ineffective due to gross abuse and misuse.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:46:32 PM
Speaking to a 'hitting parent', think about the last time you spanked your child. Think about the mood you were in. If you had just received a huge salary bonus or raise, and had been in a terrific mood, do you think you'd have still hit your child?

Probably not.

That means that the spanking can be attributed to your mood rather than the child's behavior.

Just something to think about.
If you spank your kid because your in a bad mood, your wrong. It can only be done when you're in a balanced state of mind. Never out of anger. You're child will know if the spank was out of anger, or in order to better him.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:48:40 PM
Doing an action is diff then thinking
So just walk out of the room. It just seems a little silly to me that someone would go put on a jacket to cool down.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 19, 2014, 03:48:59 PM
Doesn't seem to be obvious to some. The point is, that 98% of chinuch is not applied, its subconsciously absorbed.
+1,000,000
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 03:49:03 PM
Sorry Socrates...
Here.
 (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/63219-our-youth-now-love-luxury-they-have-bad-manners-contempt)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates#Misattributed
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
Doesn't seem to be obvious to some. The point is, that 98% of chinuch is not applied, its subconsciously absorbed.
True
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 03:50:24 PM
A parent who consistently loses their cool and yells and contorts their face and furrows their brow pops their eyes out and gets red in the face over relatively insignificant things (like when the children got into a fight while parent was trying to concentrate on something important, or like when child fails to complete a task that the parent requested them to do twelve times, etc etc etc.), then the parent loses arguably the most important discipline tool they had: Expressing sincere frustration witht he child's behavior. Yes this can and should be a very effective tool. All kids want to make their parents happy and proud. But if the parents lose their cool every other second, it becomes ineffecitev and meaningless except that it still harms the child in many cases). So those parents may find that they must resort to hitting for situations like running in the street. Because the normal, healthy way to teach the child that a certain behavior is not ok, has been rendered ineffective due to gross abuse and misuse.
I'd rather give my kid a light/moderate potch for a deserving reason (once every 2 months type deserving) than screaming at him brows popping out and getting red and scaring his poor soul.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 19, 2014, 03:57:32 PM
I would like to recommend a fantastic book on raising children that will be enlightening to some here. It's called Unconditional Parenting  by Alfie Kohn
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 19, 2014, 03:57:38 PM
I'd rather give my kid a light/moderate potch for a deserving reason (once every 2 months type deserving) than screaming at him brows popping out and getting red and scaring his poor soul.
Forgive me for being unclear.
I am not condoning screaming as you described. I am saying that it is such screaming that renders ineffective sincere attempts to express disapproval/disappointment in a civil manner.
A parent who regularly controls himself and maintains his cool will find that a relatively minor expression of disapproval can work wonders. Just raising your voice slightly will make a huge impact if done right. But not if you scream your head off every day because child didn't clean his room AGAIN.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:02:00 PM

I have a few friends whose dads have a hitting jacket"- when they feel their kid deserves a smack, they first go to the closet and put on this jacket- this gives them time to cool down and assess if they are hitting due to their mood or the behavior of the kid

Interesting idea.

I have a hitting whip.  When I feel the need to smack my kid, I go to the garage and take down my whip, and then clean if off, and oil it. This gives me time to cool down and assess how best to hit.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 04:11:30 PM

Its not the parenting, its the parents!
Same thing
Not at all the same perhaps  the parents are still dealing with the repercussions of the parenting of the last generation which maybe the problem....
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 04:15:17 PM

I must say that this generation (the first one with an anti discipline attitude) is producing the greatest products.

#sarcasm
it is quite disturbing to me that people think today's problems stem from a lack of discipline. What is the line of thinking? Where is there evidence to that? What das Torah agrees with that?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 04:20:31 PM
it is quite disturbing to me that people think today's problems stem from a lack of discipline. What is the line of thinking? Where is there evidence to that? What das Torah agrees with that?
discipline does not equal hitting.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 04:24:27 PM
discipline does not equal hitting.
but hitting is a form of disciplining
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:24:44 PM
Did anyone here ever have a situation where a spouse acted in an upsetting or thoughtless way? Did you react by spanking him/her?

If so, were the results positive?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:25:41 PM
Did anyone here ever have a situation where a spouse acted in an upsetting or thoughtless way? Did you react by spanking him/her?

If so, were the results positive?
Thats a bad comparison.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 04:26:18 PM
Did anyone here ever have a situation where a spouse acted in an upsetting or thoughtless way? Did you react by spanking him/her?

If so, were the results positive?
That would be a great new thread! Poll and all  :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 04:26:29 PM
Did anyone here ever have a situation where a spouse acted in an upsetting or thoughtless way? Did you react by spanking him/her?

If so, were the results positive?
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:28:28 PM
Did anyone here ever have a situation where a spouse acted in an upsetting or thoughtless way? Did you react by spanking him/her?

If so, were the results positive?

I actually think this makes the point very well.

When you want to influence how your spouse does things, you don't hit them. Not only because they'd divorce you, but because it would be mean, and anyway wouldn't work very well.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 04:29:45 PM
I actually think this makes the point very well.

When you want to influence how your spouse does things, you don't hit them. Not only because they'd divorce you, but because it would be mean, and anyway wouldn't work very well.

a spouse is Diff as they have the ability to think, as well as life experience.
A kid has neither (or actually, a very limited amount of both)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 04:30:06 PM
That would be a great new thread! Poll and all  :)
+ >:D

I actually think this makes the point very well.

When you want to influence how your spouse does things, you don't hit them. Not only because they'd divorce you, but because it would be mean, and anyway wouldn't work very well.

+100
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:31:03 PM
I actually think this makes the point very well.

When you want to influence how your spouse does things, you don't hit them. Not only because they'd divorce you, but because it would be mean, and anyway wouldn't work very well.
It is much harder to influence and adult than a child.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:31:59 PM

Thats a bad comparison.


you're right it is a terrible comparison. A spouse can leave you, seek shelter, file for divorce, protect her or himself in someway.

A child is totally helpless,  and did not ask to be born to you.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 04:32:11 PM
It is much harder to influence and adult than a child.
Exactly
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 04:32:56 PM
I believe people without children have a very weak comprehension on parenting issues. And it is annoying to read their insightless comments.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ches on February 19, 2014, 04:33:19 PM
You don't have any responsibility to be mchanech your wife, but you have it on your kids.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
and did not ask to be born to you.
#immaturity
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:34:22 PM


you're right it is a terrible comparison. A spouse can leave you, seek shelter, file for divorce, protect her or himself in someway.

A child is totally helpless,  and did not ask to be born to you.
Iam not one who just hits his kids all the time for no reason. If I see my child run in to the street or do something dangerous or life threatening I will give him/her a slap to remind them not to do it again. I think that giving a slap will leave more of an impression then just telling a 2-3 year old not to do it.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 04:34:50 PM
#immaturity
Noach lo l'adam shelo nivra
#chazal
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:35:01 PM
You don't have any responsibility to be mchanech your wife, but you have it on your kids.

Ok.

But you're still are trying to influence what they do. Why not use the best methods?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
Iam not one who just hits his kids all the time for no reason. If I see my child run in to the street or do something dangerous or life threatening I will give him/her a slap to remind them not to do it again. I think that giving a slap will leave more of an impression then just telling a 2-3 year old not to do it.
And if you saw your wife do something dangerous?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 04:36:12 PM
And if you saw your wife do something dangerous?
standby  ;D
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:36:24 PM

Iam not one who just hits his kids all the time for no reason. If I see my child run in to the street or do something dangerous or life threatening I will give him/her a slap to remind them not to do it again. I think that giving a slap will leave more of an impression then just telling a 2-3 year old not to do it.

And what an impression! Just not the one you want.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:36:46 PM
Ok.

But you're still are trying to influence what they do. Why not use the best methods?
Because an adult will listen to reason with words a child won't. If you tell an adult "no you can not have that candy" they will understand, but if you tell a child that they will start crying and screaming (not all kids)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:38:16 PM
Think about how incredibly unacceptable it is for adults to hit other adults in society, even when taunted or angered. It is almost universally considered terrible behavior.

Doing it to a little kid is so much worse.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:38:39 PM
And what an impression! Just not the one you want.
Do you think that a child who got smacked as a kid for going into the street or doing something dangerous is scarred?
I know I was hit in those instances as a child and I think I turned out ok.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
Because an adult will listen to reason with words a child won't. If you tell an adult "no you can not have that candy" they will understand, but if you tell a child that they will start crying and screaming (not all kids)

What if your spouse refuses to listen to reason on something?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ches on February 19, 2014, 04:39:18 PM
חושך שבטו שונא את בנו
was said by חכם מכל האדם
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:39:38 PM
Do you think that a child who got smacked as a kid for going into the street or doing something dangerous is scarred?
I know I was hit in those instances as a child and I think I turned out ok.

What do you mean you turned out ok? You're arguing here to beat little kids!
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:39:41 PM
Think about how incredibly unacceptable it is for adults to hit other adults in society, even when taunted or angered. It is almost universally considered terrible behavior.

Doing it to a little kid is so much worse.
You are correct, but you cannot compare the 2.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:40:26 PM
What do you mean you turned out ok? You're arguing here to beat little kids!
woah!! I didn't say "beat". Big difference between beat and hit when they do somethong dangerous!
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 04:40:51 PM
You are correct, but you cannot compare the 2.
That's right, adults will fight back...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:40:54 PM

What do you mean you turned out ok? You're arguing here to beat little kids!
LOL!!
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ches on February 19, 2014, 04:40:58 PM
and not שונא את אשתו
cause hitting is only made for chinuch not for persuasiveness.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:41:07 PM
That's right, adults will fight back...
Lol some adults
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 04:42:41 PM

discipline does not equal hitting.
never said it did
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:42:53 PM

חושך שבטו שונא את בנו
was said by חכם מכל האדם
People are so frum when it comes to this.

Why don't we start with the Deoraisas first. Or how about Lashon Hara?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 04:45:21 PM
Goodness, the argument for corporal punishment of children is to instill in them the concept of consequences to their actions. This is a very foreign idea to many adults these days.
There is a debate as to whether people today bichlal act after weighing the reward and consequences, or if we are solely a reward based society.
Hitting an adult has no shichus to the discussion.   
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ches on February 19, 2014, 04:45:36 PM
People are so frum when it comes to this.

Why don't we start with the Deoraisas first. Or how about Lashon Hara?
It's not a mitzvah he said it as a fact.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: mod on February 19, 2014, 04:47:20 PM
a spouse is Diff as they have the ability to think, as well as life experience.
A kid has neither (or actually, a very limited amount of both)
That's why hitting a spouse makes more sense. An adult understands. The child just thinks you hate them.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 04:49:09 PM
, and anyway wouldn't work very well.
-1
Works excellent for me.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:50:00 PM
-1
Works excellent for me.

I'm sorry to hear that. You should really stop being such a pushover and stand up to her.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 04:51:09 PM

That's why hitting a spouse makes more sense. An adult understands. The child just thinks you hate them.
An adult understands???

Find me an adult whom you can hit and will "understand"?

I think they will understand that you have issues and they need to file for divorce.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 04:52:24 PM
That's why hitting a spouse makes more sense. An adult understands. The child just thinks you hate them.
If that adult understands, then he/she won't be running into the street in the first place.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:52:42 PM
An adult understands???

Find me an adult whom you can hit and will "understand"?

I think they will understand that you have issues and they need to file for divorce.
I don't think you undertsand "hitting". I am not talking about punching  kid across the face I am talking about giving them a small smack on their hand and telling them not to do it again.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 19, 2014, 04:54:21 PM
I don't think you undertsand "hitting". I am not talking about punching  kid across the face I am talking about giving them a small smack on their hand and telling them not to do it again.

Ok, what is the purpose of that?
Does it hurt, or is this some sort of symbolism.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: mod on February 19, 2014, 04:55:29 PM
An adult understands???

Find me an adult whom you can hit and will "understand"?

I think they will understand that you have issues and they need to file for divorce.

not what I meant. An adult can understand. I didn't say accept it. It makes more sense to hit a spouse than a child.
My point is more- the Rambam references hitting a wife...
Don't think either is a good idea to say the least, but child is much worse.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: mod on February 19, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
If that adult understands, then he/she won't be running into the street in the first place.
You're assuming that people are not hitting for obedience
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: mod on February 19, 2014, 04:56:58 PM
I don't think you undertsand "hitting". I am not talking about punching  kid across the face I am talking about giving them a small smack on their hand and telling them not to do it again.
Is that supposed to hurt or just make a point?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 04:57:31 PM
Ok, what is the purpose of that?
Does it hurt, or is this some sort of symbolism.
I don't know what hurts or not. I obviously don't want to leave marks on my child, but I do want them to remember not to do it again and I think that giving them a small smack on their hand will remind them more then just telling them.
Don't get me wrong I am not into hitting a kid for any reason and because one is short tempered, but I do think it certain cisrcumstances you have to. I have one kid and I can tell you that since she is born I smacked her once or twice and one if thise times was because she ran into the street.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 04:58:37 PM
I'm sorry to hear that. You should really stop being such a pushover and stand up to her.
I have a feeling you just got married. You're a little inexperienced. I see this with 99% of newlyweds. 

Wait, give it time and you'll slowly land from your honeymoon highness.

You'll realize life is not made just of a bed of roses, sometimes we have to hit our spouse, sometimes they hit back.
Thats life, thats what everyone does, thats what your parents did and that's what you'll realize sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2014, 05:02:51 PM
I love this place. You can have some people having a super serious conversation intertwined with people who are joking
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 05:03:13 PM
I love this place. You can have some people having a super serious conversation intertwined with people who are joking
ALOL +100
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: efflpetzel on February 19, 2014, 05:07:22 PM
In answer to the OP's question, Do you hit your kids, i have to say IME it all depends If & how much you were hit as a kid.
My father never spared me from the rod (I'll admit I wasn't an easy kid) & I see that today, when my kid does something wrong bad or pushes me to the end of my tether I have a strong impulse to give him a potch, B'H I'm able to calm down & think straight & give my kid the appropriate punishment, but its not easy
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 05:08:43 PM
Did anyone here ever have a situation where a spouse acted in an upsetting or thoughtless way? Did you react by spanking him/her?

If so, were the results positive?
Best time we ever had.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 05:11:07 PM

Best time we ever had.
Details please.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: judahk88 on February 19, 2014, 05:11:18 PM
Best time we ever had.
HAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 05:13:18 PM
Details please.
Mrs Count had used a miles card on a purchase,  before the Counts' ddf days...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 05:21:29 PM
Details please.
Not on this forum.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 05:21:40 PM
Best time we ever had.
POIDH >:D
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 05:21:51 PM
I have a feeling you just got married. You're a little inexperienced. I see this with 99% of newlyweds. 

Wait, give it time and you'll slowly land from your honeymoon highness.

You'll realize life is not made just of a bed of roses, sometimes we have to hit our spouse, sometimes they hit back.
Thats life, thats what everyone does, thats what your parents did and that's what you'll realize sooner rather than later.
When I was taking Chosson classes and learning Harchakos our teacher told us that only a Negi'ah Derech Chibah was Assur, one Chosson asked jokingly if you are allowed to hit your wife? The teacher answered with the following story.
A woman came to her Rov to complain that her husband was always hitting her, the Rov called in the husband and admonished him and told him that it's Assur to hit his wife. The husband accepted that and left. A few weeks later the Rov sees the wife and asks her how is the Shalom Bayis? The woman replied "Oy! It's terrible! Now he doesn't even hit me anymore...".
The Chosson teacher concluded "Apparently hitting your wife can be Derech Chibah..."
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Lou Bob on February 19, 2014, 05:22:08 PM
Not on this forum.
Then on which one?  :D
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 19, 2014, 05:29:15 PM
Goodness, the argument for corporal punishment of children is to instill in them the concept of consequences to their actions.
I don't get it. That's an argument for punishment in general. Nothing you said explains the necessity or usefulness of corporal punishment specifically.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: FlyFirst on February 19, 2014, 05:33:27 PM
WOW 11 pages in just few hours,
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: rots5 on February 19, 2014, 05:33:52 PM
WOW 11 pages in just few hours,
4 :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 05:35:35 PM
WOW 11 pages in just few hours,
@yehuda_s has a Chush in knowing which topics will get a heater response...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 05:35:47 PM
4 :)
+ :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Joe4007 on February 19, 2014, 05:42:12 PM
The good news is that according to the poll all DDF'ers have amazing spouses! Not even one vote on the: I don't but my spouse does...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 05:42:51 PM
The good news is that according to the poll all DDF'ers have amazing spouses! Not even one vote on the: I don't but my spouse does...
There's no option for I do but my spouse doesn't... :P
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: MisterHock on February 19, 2014, 05:50:27 PM
I cut the cord also. Do you guys do that?

Yup :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 05:52:09 PM
Yup :)
I should have known better. You guys are into cutting things.  :P
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 05:53:14 PM
 :o
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: MisterHock on February 19, 2014, 05:54:28 PM
Please, please listen to this before you decide.  :-\

www.torahanytime.com/listen-legacy-audio/?file=16465


Who is the speaker?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 05:57:46 PM

I cut the cord also. Do you guys do that?
I almost did... Seriously.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 05:59:40 PM
I almost did... Seriously.
Why only almost?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 19, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
Yup :)
Are there LORs who allow that? :o
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 06:16:36 PM
Why only almost?
Paramedics arrived in hurry...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 06:20:40 PM
Paramedics arrived in hurry...
You don't drive?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 06:22:31 PM
You don't drive?
We had to get an ambulance.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 19, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
We had to get an ambulance.
Sorry to hear that. I am guessing everything worked out OK?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 06:26:38 PM
Sorry to hear that. I am guessing everything worked out OK?
No, she's crying so much.   :)
Born in ambulance.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 06:26:40 PM

Who is the speaker?
Rabbi Leib Keleman
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 06:36:37 PM
Are there LORs who allow that? :o
Alts negia or reiyah?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: MC on February 19, 2014, 06:46:26 PM
Are there LORs who allow that? :o
Alts negia or reiyah?

Not a negia issue and as long as he's careful, it's not a reiyah issue either. So most LORs will say it's ok.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: wayfe on February 19, 2014, 07:09:57 PM
I think that depending on the age of the child, a little potch is ok. BUT, this is if and only if you regularly shower your kids with love.

A child who truly knows they are loved, will grow and blossom regardless of whether they are hit (of course, not abusively and only until an appropriate age), yelled at, criticized, or punished.

Whereas, if a child does not feel loved, any form of discipline (which children always see as negative) can have a disastrous effect.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: twentie4hrs on February 19, 2014, 07:17:43 PM
*Waiting for this thread to show up on Vosiznaies
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Saver2000 on February 19, 2014, 07:21:09 PM
Didn't read through this thread

@OP,  What's the point of this thread? Are you just curious what others do? Are you looking for parenting  advice? Are you just taking a survey?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:26:15 PM
People are so frum when it comes to this.

Why don't we start with the Deoraisas first. Or how about Lashon Hara?
#immature
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:27:20 PM
I have a feeling you just got married. You're a little inexperienced. I see this with 99% of newlyweds. 

Wait, give it time and you'll slowly land from your honeymoon highness.

You'll realize life is not made just of a bed of roses, sometimes we have to hit our spouse, sometimes they hit back.
Thats life, thats what everyone does, thats what your parents did and that's what you'll realize sooner rather than later.
This better be sarcastic.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Myccrabbi on February 19, 2014, 09:27:49 PM
Married for over 5 years and don't agree with a word of the above. I hope this is sarcastic. Everyone hits their wife? Are you nuts?
chill!!! Of course he was sarcastic,  sheesh.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sillypainter on February 19, 2014, 09:27:55 PM
Married for over 5 years and don't agree with a word of the above. I hope this is sarcastic. Everyone hits their wife? Are you nuts?

You must be from another planet, but meshugener is just not politically correct. He just states the facts of what goes on in every modern household in America. Of course it's not correct to say so, but that's what we all do unfortunately.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:29:31 PM
I don't know what hurts or not. I obviously don't want to leave marks on my child, but I do want them to remember not to do it again and I think that giving them a small smack on their hand will remind them more then just telling them.
Don't get me wrong I am not into hitting a kid for any reason and because one is short tempered, but I do think it certain cisrcumstances you have to. I have one kid and I can tell you that since she is born I smacked her once or twice and one if thise times was because she ran into the street.
My father never smacked his daughters, ever, only the boys.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:30:32 PM
chill!!! Of course he was sarcastic,  sheesh.
I deleted my post, only to see that you quoted me. Oh! the shame! I thought he was serious.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:31:00 PM
You must be from another planet, but meshugener is just not politically correct. He just states the facts of what goes on in every modern household in America. Of course it's not correct to say so, but that's what we all do unfortunately.
better be sarcastic.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Myccrabbi on February 19, 2014, 09:31:14 PM
I deleted my post, only to see that you quoted me. Oh! the shame! I thought he was serious.
realized and still posted;D
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 09:35:08 PM
My father never smacked his daughters, ever, only the boys.

That seems just a bit silly.

Meanwhile I got potched twice that I remember when I was little.

I have no issue if a person feels the need to potch once in a blue moon. Anything more and you're doing something wrong IMO. It shouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:42:10 PM
That seems just a bit silly.

Meanwhile I got potched twice that I remember when I was little.

I have no issue if a person feels the need to potch once in a blue moon. Anything more and you're doing something wrong IMO. It shouldn't be necessary.
I think there is actually a Rashi that his actions were based on. That to girls you always teach in a positive manner. To boys, sometimes you got to be tough. I never asked him why he never hit the girls. But the distinction is not silly.


(כה תאמר לבית יעקב ותגיד לבני ישראל" (שמות יט-ג

,רש"י - לבית יעקב - אלו הנשים תאמר להן בלשון רכה
ותגיד לבני ישראל - עונשים ודקדוקין פרש לזכרים



Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:43:12 PM
realized and still posted;D
mean!
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Myccrabbi on February 19, 2014, 09:44:36 PM
mean!
ya, sometimes:P
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:45:00 PM
BTW, my kid looks more hurt when I put him in timeout, than when I give him the rare potch.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 09:45:24 PM
I think there is actually a Rashi that his actions were based on. That to girls you always teach in a positive manner. To boys, sometimes you got to be tough. I never asked him why he never hit the girls. But the distinction is not silly.


(כה תאמר לבית יעקב ותגיד לבני ישראל" (שמות יט-ג

,רש"י - לבית יעקב - אלו הנשים תאמר להן בלשון רכה
ותגיד לבני ישראל - עונשים ודקדוקין פרש לזכרים

Just a bit silly. It's not that I don't see a distinction between boys and girls.

Maybe girls just listen better. :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:48:52 PM
Just a bit silly. It's not that I don't see a distinction between boys and girls.

Maybe girls just listen better. :)
Even when my sisters did really really bad stuff :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: wayfe on February 19, 2014, 09:51:50 PM
BTW, my kid looks more hurt when I put him in timeout, than when I give him the rare potch.

I can hear that. A potch is usually anger or frustration. Those are human traits, and kids can understand and forgive that... Timeout, on the other hand, is rejection. Kids hear "Mom/Dad aren't interested in seeing me now"
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:52:35 PM
I can hear that. A potch is usually anger or frustration. Those are human traits, and kids can understand and forgive that... Timeout, on the other hand, is rejection.
a potch is NEVER (hopefully) anger or frustration.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: wayfe on February 19, 2014, 09:54:09 PM
a potch is NEVER (hopefully) anger or frustration.

C'mon. I think it usually is. I'm not saying that's the sole reason, but that is usually what fuels it.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: elit on February 19, 2014, 09:55:17 PM

C'mon. I think it usually is. I'm not saying that's the sole reason, but that is usually what fuels it.
in that case it is certainly is wrong
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 09:55:57 PM
It's not always like that. I know plenty of kids who know when their parents potch it means they are really not happy with you. My cousin gives a light slap on the hand. The kids get so insulted. It hurts their feelings more than anything.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 19, 2014, 09:56:08 PM
C'mon. I think it usually is. I'm not saying that's the sole reason, but that is usually what fuels it.
Then it's wrong. If to potch or not to potch is not a big decision by you, than you should never potch. I don't think you should potch on the spur of the moment.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: wayfe on February 19, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
I'm not saying potching is ideal.

I'm saying there are far worse things a parent can do to their child than a small potch, even one that is caused by anger or frustration.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
I'm not saying potching is ideal.

I'm saying there are far worse things a parent can do to their child a small potch, even one that is caused by anger or frustration.

I've seen People potch their kids out of frustration and I've seen people potch out of frustration/anger/dislike  and it's different.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: wayfe on February 19, 2014, 10:06:51 PM
I've seen People potch their kids out of frustration and I've seen people potch out of frustration/anger/dislike  and it's different.

Dislike? That's a completely different issue.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 10:09:43 PM
Dislike? That's a completely different issue.

I agree. It's the same thing with yelling at your kid etc. When it's combined with dislike it's a big problem.

Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 10:22:39 PM
When we were growing up, not that long ago, the rebbeim in school used to slap daily. Now kids are to emotionally weak to handle it.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 10:24:44 PM
When we were growing up, not that long ago, the rebbeim in school used to slap daily. Now kids are to emotionally weak to handle it.

The Rebbeim also used to belt kids and basically beat them up.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 19, 2014, 10:29:39 PM
The Rebbeim also used to belt kids and basically beat them up.
please tell me you're not serious.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Menachem613 on February 19, 2014, 10:29:49 PM

When we were growing up, not that long ago, the rebbeim in school used to slap daily. Now kids are to emotionally weak to handle it.

My pre-1a rebbe would even hang his different length sticks on the wall for ease of access. His wooden ruler, however, was kept in his desk.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 19, 2014, 10:32:51 PM
please tell me you're not serious.

Why wouldn't I be serious? Most the stories I know happened in Israel. I have plenty of relatives with crazy stories. Most of these guys are in their 30's now.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: newcomer on February 19, 2014, 10:49:58 PM
Why wouldn't I be serious? Most the stories I know happened in Israel. I have plenty of relatives with crazy stories. Most of these guys are in their 30's now.
And we grew up in the states and all my brothers had stories of that happening to them, so it wasn't just Israel.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2014, 11:04:16 PM
The Rebbeim also used to belt kids and basically beat them up.
I had one rebbe who used to really let lose.
The rest were standard "come here, take of your glasses" . those were the days :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 19, 2014, 11:49:45 PM
When we were growing up, not that long ago, the rebbeim in school used to slap daily. Now kids are to emotionally weak to handle it.

Maybe the rebbeim then were too emotionally weak to not hit. That surge of violence is the result of Hitler and the holocaust, and thank goodness the effect has started to wear off.

I used to listen to the horror stories from somewhat older relatives - and they were sickening. I myself wasn't hit as often by rebbeim but the few times were more than enough.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Baruch on February 20, 2014, 12:06:00 AM
Maybe the rebbeim then were too emotionally weak to not hit. That surge of violence is the result of Hitler and the holocaust, and thank goodness the effect has started to wear off.
Nothing to do with the Holocaust. The yerushalmi Rebbeim would beat too. An old yerushalmi told me that the reason why so many yerushalmi kids joined all the frei organazations and went otd, was because they were beaten to the bone.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 20, 2014, 12:17:21 AM
That surge of violence is the result of Hitler and the holocaust,
Fascinating insight. Where did you hear that idea? Or is it your own analysis?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 20, 2014, 12:24:31 AM

Fascinating insight. Where did you hear that idea? Or is it your own analysis?
I heard from a professional (therapist). He said that well I can't remember exactly what he said but the gist was that these rebbeim were generally the children of holocaust survivors who themselves had many, many issues. So really Hitler affected up to the third generation of living people and possibly more.

And that is besides the research on the weakened physical bodies of holocaust survivor descendants.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 20, 2014, 12:30:50 AM

When we were growing up, not that long ago, the rebbeim in school used to slap daily. Now kids are to emotionally weak to handle it.
Maybe the rebbeim then were too emotionally weak to not hit. That surge of violence is the result of Hitler and the holocaust, and thank goodness the effect has started to wear off.

I used to listen to the horror stories from somewhat older relatives - and they were sickening. I myself wasn't hit as often by rebbeim but the few times were more than enough.
or perhaps the rebbiem nowadays are too emotionally weak to show true love, care and concern for their talmidiem so that if they would hit it wouldn't have such an adverse effect on the Talmud.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 20, 2014, 12:39:06 AM
or perhaps the rebbiem nowadays are too emotionally weak to show true love, care and concern for their talmidiem so that if they would hit it wouldn't have such an adverse effect on the Talmud.
Dude, you make it sound like hitting is a goal unto itself that we should strive for! That's messed up.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 20, 2014, 12:43:22 AM

Dude, you make it sound like hitting is a goal unto itself that we should strive for! That's messed up.
eh not sure where you got that from.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 20, 2014, 12:46:07 AM
please tell me you're not serious.
Religious leaders of all faiths have been abusing kids for decades. You are not aware of this?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 20, 2014, 12:47:49 AM
Religious leaders of all faiths have been abusing kids for decades. You are not aware of this?

Side note but when he says rabbeim he is referring to teachers. Not to say they aren't religious leaders...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 20, 2014, 12:48:10 AM
Maybe the rebbeim then were too emotionally weak to not hit. That surge of violence is the result of Hitler and the holocaust, and thank goodness the effect has started to wear off.

I used to listen to the horror stories from somewhat older relatives - and they were sickening. I myself wasn't hit as often by rebbeim but the few times were more than enough.
Your making it sound horrible. IME a loving rebbe giving the appropriate slap, was a normal healthy part of school. Just like being sent to the principles office. Or writing out 500 times: I won't talk in class (-is that to much today also?).

I don't know your story, but from the kids I grew up with, I don't think that we were negatively affected at all. 
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: CountValentine on February 20, 2014, 12:51:17 AM
Side note but when he says rabbeim he is referring to teachers. Not to say they aren't religious leaders...
Side note to your side note. Teachers in a religious school are considered religious leaders where I went to school.  :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 20, 2014, 12:51:20 AM
15 years ago it was fashionable to blame OTD kids on hitting. @boruch, you're behind the times.  Now it's the internet!
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: george on February 20, 2014, 12:52:29 AM
eh not sure where you got that from.
Eh, from reading your post.
Read it again, you'll see.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: sky121 on February 20, 2014, 12:58:08 AM
Your making it sound horrible. IME a loving rebbe giving the appropriate slap, was a normal healthy part of school. Just like being sent to the principles office. Or writing out 500 times: I won't talk in class (-is that to much today also?).

I don't know your story, but from the kids I grew up with, I don't think that we were negatively affected at all.

I'm not saying some didn't do it lovingly but plenty didn't. And sometimes "power" and 'authority' gets to peoples head. I've heard plenty of stories.

And I also think many thought that instilling fear into kids however necessary was helpful.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Sport on February 20, 2014, 01:02:53 AM

Eh, from reading your post.
Read it again, you'll see.
  Not interested in going back and forth with you and clarifying every post I write. But I by no means think that hitting a child is appropriate.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Freddie on February 20, 2014, 01:09:59 AM
It's not about the title, Rather about the OP.... I know he is the OP without opening the thread.

+1 kinda sad actually. OP, is this a "schtick" or a cry for help?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: meshugener on February 20, 2014, 01:56:42 AM
+1 kinda sad actually. OP, is this a "schtick" or a cry for help?
If you don't have anything contributive to post, keep your mouth shut and your hands of your keyboard.
Thank you and have a good night.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2014, 08:12:52 AM
Side note to your side note. Teachers in a religious school are considered religious leaders where I went to school.  :)

Side note to your side note to his side note. Where I come from to.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: ChAiM'l on February 20, 2014, 09:28:45 AM
 
If you don't have anything contributive to post, keep your mouth shut and your hands of your keyboard.
Thank you and have a good night.

Coming from you...  ::)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 20, 2014, 10:01:48 AM


Coming from you...  ::)
There is a difference between whimsical and malevolent.
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: SamKey on February 20, 2014, 10:25:24 AM
Anyone here smarter than the smartest man that ever lived?
יסר בנך ויניחך ויתן מעדנים לנפשך
משלי: כט יז
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 20, 2014, 10:33:19 AM
Anyone here smarter than the smartest man that ever lived?
יסר בנך ויניחך ויתן מעדנים לנפשך
משלי: כט יז
Does יסר mean hit or chastise?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: SamKey on February 20, 2014, 10:33:53 AM
Does יסר mean hit?
Well the Gemara in Makos translates it that way
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: etech0 on February 20, 2014, 12:21:45 PM
Well the Gemara in Makos translates it that way
Well that's apropos...
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: good sam on February 20, 2014, 12:30:22 PM
Well the Gemara in Makos translates it that way
That gemara (CMIIM) says you should hit your kids even when they're good (ala spare the rod spoil the child)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: leeboy on February 20, 2014, 12:50:41 PM
Damn... There is no way to change your vote after submitting!! :)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 20, 2014, 01:50:43 PM

Damn... There is no way to change your vote after submitting!! :)
Which way did you change it?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: henche on February 20, 2014, 04:18:25 PM
Anyone here smarter than the smartest man that ever lived?
יסר בנך ויניחך ויתן מעדנים לנפשך
משלי: כט יז

I mean, do we say he was the smartest man until his time, or even after? Or maybe even until that chazal was written.

Do you think chazal were attesting there would never be anyone smarter? (eg henche)
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: SamKey on February 20, 2014, 04:37:21 PM
I mean, do we say he was the smartest man until his time, or even after? Or maybe even until that chazal was written.

Do you think chazal were attesting there would never be anyone smarter? (eg henche)
PSA: some may miss the sarcasm
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: yehuda S on February 20, 2014, 04:41:19 PM
PSA: some may miss the sarcasm
What sarcasm?
Title: Re: Do you hit your kids?
Post by: Achas Veachas on February 20, 2014, 04:56:40 PM
PSA: some may miss the sarcasm
You mean Henche isn't smarter?