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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: Drago on May 18, 2014, 04:40:11 AM

Title: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Drago on May 18, 2014, 04:40:11 AM
I'm interested in hearing people's informed opinions about why it's so high, and what can be done to lower it.

Let me preface by saying that the average cost of a public school student is also around 13k-15k, so the answer may simply be that Jewish day school tuition isn't so high on a relative basis.

Below are some of the questions I'm interested in hearing discussed:

1) Is there lots of cross-subsidization going on?
2) Is tuition much higher in the tri-state area, and if so, why?
3) Is it possible some people are being paid way above their true market value? (I knew of a 350k salary for the principal of a school a few years ago, which seemed to be way out of line.)
4) Are MO schools generally more expensive, and if so, why?
5) Are chassidish schools generally cheaper, and if so, why?
6) Would having more communal oversight over school finances be a good thing, or just cause problems?
7) Should schools of different pursuasions band together to cut costs on the fixed overheads?
8 ) Are people having fewer children as a result of day school tuitions?
9) How does a beis medrash program justify charging high tuitions for the right to sit and learn all day?
10) Do people find the tuition discount programs to be too intrusive into ppl's personal financial lives, or not intrusive enough?
11) What are the tricks ppl typically do on their discount applications in order to hide their income?

What else am I missing?

Chime in civilly!
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 18, 2014, 06:14:39 AM
Didn't read all - but $15k times 20 students is $300,000/yr per class. Not that much when you have pay teachers salaries and other expenses.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Drago on May 18, 2014, 06:36:59 AM
Didn't read all - but $15k times 20 students is $300,000/yr per class. Not that much when you have pay teachers salaries and other expenses.
On a very simplified level, a single teacher could theorectically work a full day (similar to other professions), teach the class, receive a salary of $90,000 (w/ 2 months summer vacation), and still have $210,000 remaining to play with.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 18, 2014, 06:52:05 AM
Shokiach. In practice they're paying more than 1 teacher.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Side incomer on May 18, 2014, 07:17:44 AM
Shokiach. In practice they're paying more than 1 teacher.
No kid is in school for more 8 learning hours (even the oldest children). In Chassish Schools the Rebbis get paid $20-25 an hour tops, which is not good, because then you don't always get the best quality...
But I think $35-40 is extremely nicely paid.

$40 x 8 x 5 x 50 = $80,000

That means that between all teachers combined, a class room has no reason to cost more than 80K a year.
Even if you double that (!!) you are still at 160K a year. How in the world are you getting to $300K?

And don't forget that all schools still have government programs etc...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Drago on May 18, 2014, 07:52:04 AM
Shokiach. In practice they're paying more than 1 teacher.
Obviously.
I was pointing out that a teacher can teach 8 hours in a day. Whether that's 8 one hour classes to different grades, or 8 hours of classes to the same grade, doesn't change the math on the school wide level.
Title: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Sport on May 18, 2014, 07:59:58 AM
No kid is in school for more 8 learning hours (even the oldest children). In Chassish Schools the Rebbis get paid $20-25 an hour tops, which is not good, because then you don't always get the best quality...
But I think $35-40 is extremely nicely paid.

$40 x 8 x 5 x 50 = $80,000

That means that between all teachers combined, a class room has no reason to cost more than 80K a year.
Even if you double that (!!) you are still at 160K a year. How in the world are you getting to $300K?

And don't forget that all schools still have government programs etc...
I would say it's even less than 80k to teachers per classroom. They have off for 8-10 weeks between. Summer and chagim.
Either way In most yeshivahs who is paying 15k. My completely uneducated guess is that most parents are probably paying under 10k. You also have a significant amount probably goes to subsidize other students' tuition.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 08:29:06 AM
I would say it's even less than 80k to teachers per classroom. They have off for 8-10 weeks between. Summer and chagim.
Either way In most yeshivahs who is paying 15k. My completely uneducated guess is that most parents are probably paying under 10k. You also have a significant amount probably goes to subsidize other students' tuition.
+1
Theoretically if everyone paid full tuition schools would be able to afford to lower the tuition for everyone.
Title: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Sport on May 18, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
FYI I just read that in NYC it costs the city 20k a student per year. But it's not comparable to yeshivah tuition; between pensions, other benifit a and all the extra curricular activities their cost should be much greater.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: peacenlove613 on May 18, 2014, 09:01:34 AM
As the administrator of a school I can say that the main reason tuition is so high is because the majority of parents don't pay full tuition and even those parents who get breaks don't pay what they promise. So we are left with very large deficit gaps. We need to inflate the prices so those who can afford full will offset those who don't pay. Also if we ask a parent who doesn't have much to give for 15k a year we might get 6-7 but if we only ask for 10 we only get 4-5.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sky121 on May 18, 2014, 09:06:50 AM
Out of a class of 25 just about 3 paid full tuition when I was in school.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: peacenlove613 on May 18, 2014, 09:10:11 AM
And the rest probably still owe at half of what they promised.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Sport on May 18, 2014, 09:13:11 AM

As the administrator of a school I can say that the main reason tuition is so high is because the majority of parents don't pay full tuition and even those parents who get breaks don't pay what they promise. So we are left with very large deficit gaps. We need to inflate the prices so those who can afford full will offset those who don't pay. Also if we ask a parent who doesn't have much to give for 15k a year we might get 6-7 but if we only ask for 10 we only get 4-5.
What type of school are you administrator for ; MO, chasidush cheder, Yeshivish ...?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 09:40:23 AM
What type of school are you administrator for ; MO, chasidush cheder, Yeshivish ...?
I believe that's more or less the situation everywhere.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 18, 2014, 10:00:56 AM
cost should be much greater.
If the 20k excludes real estate value that's probably wrong.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 18, 2014, 10:04:54 AM
On a very simplified level, a single teacher could theorectically work a full day (similar to other professions), teach the class, receive a salary of $90,000 (w/ 2 months summer vacation), and still have $210,000 remaining to play with.
Schools pay rent/mortgage, electricity, desks + computers, principals, secretaries, phone bills, heat, A/C, administrators, dean, CEO, special needs dept, substitutes, maintenance/cleaning...  Those costs are much higher than the teachers' salaries.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Sport on May 18, 2014, 11:00:01 AM

If the 20k excludes real estate value that's probably wrong.
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if the 20k cost doesn't include payment for the property of the school then there is no way it costs 20k per kid?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 18, 2014, 11:41:41 AM
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if the 20k cost doesn't include payment for the property of the school then there is no way it costs 20k per kid?

The city doesn't pay for the property. Jewish schools do. Hence if the 20k excludes the RE value, your assumption that the cost structure at Jewish schools is lower is probably wrong.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 11:47:53 AM
Public school teachers make very good salaries and have incredible benefits and pension plans.  Jewish schools costs are much lower in that regard.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 18, 2014, 11:52:18 AM
Public school teachers make very good salaries and have incredible benefits and pension plans.  Jewish schools costs are much lower in that regard.
Jewish teachers get free tuition for their kids. That probably exceeds the public schools benefits...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sky121 on May 18, 2014, 11:58:04 AM
Jewish teachers get free tuition for their kids. That probably exceeds the public schools benefits...
Side note, Not all schools offer that. Some offer lesser benefits. For schools that do offer that it's amazing. I met a doctor in Baltimore with a large family who quit her job and went to teach in the school because it ended up paying better. :)
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: good sam on May 18, 2014, 12:05:43 PM
Very good op-ed on the tuition crisis.

http://jstandard.com/content/item/putting_our_money_where_our_mouths_are/28821
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sb613 on May 18, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
Keep in mind that the payment from the school district for each kid in public school doesn't include the pensions and the the money that they get to fix up the buildings.
Do the real cost is much higher per kid. 
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 12:20:30 PM
Keep in mind that the payment from the school district for each kid in public school doesn't include the pensions
Source?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 12:27:53 PM
Very good op-ed on the tuition crisis.

http://jstandard.com/content/item/putting_our_money_where_our_mouths_are/28821
Interesting take.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: skyguy918 on May 18, 2014, 01:20:39 PM
Very good op-ed on the tuition crisis.

http://jstandard.com/content/item/putting_our_money_where_our_mouths_are/28821
It's such a no-brainer in my mind. Not to say that it'll be easy to implement properly, but it solves so many major issues. The tax issue is a big one IMO that it would solve, and it would also mean that you can give maaser to the scholarship organization according to all poskim (as opposed to when that money is included in tuition - which is not something universally agreed upon among the poskim).
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 01:22:19 PM
It's such a no-brainer in my mind. Not to say that it'll be easy to implement properly, but it solves so many major issues. The tax issue is a big one IMO that it would solve, and it would also mean that you can give maaser to the scholarship organization according to all poskim (as opposed to when that money is included in tuition - which is not something universally agreed upon among the poskim).
And yet the op-ed is old and this is the first I've ever heard of it.
Though this is an issue I'd champion more than improving KSMLs.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: skyguy918 on May 18, 2014, 01:29:16 PM
And yet the op-ed is old and this is the first I've ever heard of it.
Though this is an issue I'd champion more than improving KSMLs.
Like I said, not so easy to implement. You need all the schools to buy in. That's probably easier to do in Cleveland than in NY though.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 01:30:57 PM
That's probably easier to do in Cleveland than in NY though.
True.
But it can also be accomplished even for one school.
Lower tuition to a level that 90% can afford, eliminate all scholarships, and get backers to create a fund for those who are truly in need.
The people paying full now would be thrilled to donate large sums of money that's tax-deductible and counts as maiser l'chol hadayos.

Seems like a no-brainer. Why is noone trying it?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: yitzf on May 18, 2014, 01:37:30 PM
Jewish teachers get free tuition for their kids. That probably exceeds the public schools benefits...
like 2/3 salary and full health Insurance for life?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: lunatic on May 18, 2014, 01:54:56 PM
Jewish teachers get free tuition for their kids. That probably exceeds the public schools benefits...
-1

Not always true
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: moko on May 18, 2014, 02:04:44 PM
True.
But it can also be accomplished even for one school.
Lower tuition to a level that 90% can afford, eliminate all scholarships, and get backers to create a fund for those who are truly in need.
The people paying full now would be thrilled to donate large sums of money that's tax-deductible and counts as maiser l'chol hadayos.

Seems like a no-brainer. Why is noone trying it?
This has been done in Chicago to some degree with the creation of the Kehila Fund. Though they haven't lowered the tuition, they upped the min. tuition and anyone deemed worthy/needy can get additional funds from the Kehila Fund.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: lunatic on May 18, 2014, 02:08:05 PM
This has been done in Chicago to some degree with the creation of the Kehila Fund. Though they haven't lowered the tuition, they upped the min. tuition and anyone deemed worthy/needy can get additional funds from the Kehila Fund.

So how has it helped the average struggling family...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 02:09:41 PM
This has been done in Chicago to some degree with the creation of the Kehila Fund. Though they haven't lowered the tuition, they upped the min. tuition and anyone deemed worthy/needy can get additional funds from the Kehila Fund.
Not really the same thing.

It's embarrassing for folks that have a real job to have to open their books and make the case for a break.
Lower the tuition to the actual cost if everyone paid the same amount and then let the well off donate to help those in need.
Seems like a win for most everyone.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sky121 on May 18, 2014, 02:10:05 PM
Not 100% on topic but I also think it would be very helpful for anyone who isn't paying tuition to have to meet with a financial advisor offered by the school.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 18, 2014, 02:12:19 PM
Not really the same thing.

It's embarrassing for folks that have a real job to have to open their books and make the case for a break.
Lower the tuition to the actual cost if everyone paid the same amount and then let the well off donate to help those in need.
Seems like a win for most everyone.
assuming that the well off are always thrilled to donate to the local mosad...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 02:14:30 PM
assuming that the well off are always thrilled to donate to the local mosad...
If you tell them their tuition will go down from $12K to $6K per kid and that they can directly help fund a much needed scholarship fund with tax-deductible maiser dollars, I think most would respond generously.

I mean if it's true that just ~5% is paying full anyway and the rest have to grovel for a break, what is there to lose?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: @Yehuda on May 18, 2014, 02:49:29 PM
Very good op-ed on the tuition crisis.

http://jstandard.com/content/item/putting_our_money_where_our_mouths_are/28821
Wow, that's really interesting. Seems much better than all the calls for schools to somehow "figure out" how to cut costs. I mean, I agree that schools should rethink whether kindergarten really needs 4 teachers for 15 kids, but how much is that really going to save a school? This proposal is going to affect the long-term financial education crisis.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: YOSEF on May 18, 2014, 02:55:09 PM
assuming that the well off are always thrilled to donate to the local mosad...
They pay for Public School for the masses (assuming they have big/nice properties), why not Yeshiva also?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Ez on May 18, 2014, 03:12:06 PM
They pay for Public School for the masses (assuming they have big/nice properties), why not Yeshiva also?
For public school / property taxes they have no choice....
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: aygart on May 18, 2014, 03:14:13 PM
They pay for Public School for the masses (assuming they have big/nice properties), why not Yeshiva also?
because they all are just itching to pay property taxes and would never vote to lower them:-\
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 18, 2014, 03:15:50 PM
Not 100% on topic but I also think it would be very helpful for anyone who isn't paying tuition to have to meet with a financial advisor offered by the school.
Great idea!
I also think that after paying full price/minimum for 2-3 children, then the rest are free.
This would show that children are a bracha, and not a 'financial burden'.

In my day as a student, most parents had to share one car to be able to afford tuition.
Many families (without a job, or a one-parent job) spend a total of $1,000+ monthly on car#2,
 2 iPhones, cableTV, karate lessons, music lessons, kids' phones/iPads, and sometimes pet food, combined, yet there is zero $ at the end of the month for any tuition payments at all.
The result is that the FT teachers receive low salaries and no health insurance, etc....

A good theory would be to add up those types of add-ons,
make a minimum monthly payment of those total luxuries
and that amount goes to tuition as well. If people cannot afford both, then maybe they'll need to chose between 2+ smartphones and quality chinuch.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Dan on May 18, 2014, 03:23:25 PM
They pay for Public School for the masses (assuming they have big/nice properties), why not Yeshiva also?
They already do for yeshivas. It's called artificially high full tuition. 
And all that benefits is the government as tuition is post-tax dollars as opposed to donations which are pre-tax dollars.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: chevron on May 18, 2014, 07:54:54 PM
imho its not lower tuition we need to invest in but quality education! schools often are nothing more than places kids are watched and hopefully learn social interaction with peers.

when we tackle schools are places to nurture little people and grow them to big people then this is a casus belli. on this board I may get attacked for my spelling or lack thereof but so what, learning good spelling, grammar and punctuation are hardly the tools to equipped students to succeed in life, you will not make a better spouse because you can spell better.

I do not understand the age grade level, its like we punish a kid for not being good at gemarah, why ? maybe he is the next chagal and simply hasent got the head. or desire ? but that does not mean he is a lackadaisical student, he could thrive in philosophy, nach, halacha or any thing.

I think students should get personality tests to determine what they would excell at academically and emotionally / personality.

I think we should reward not punish, seek to help these little people grow not stuff them with knowledge and facts.

I could have done much better with discussions on existence rather than learning Tanya etc its a belief I know many hold that the riggid education system must give way and there are schools with radical changes to the old system 
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: GAJ2303 on May 18, 2014, 08:28:35 PM

As the administrator of a school I can say that the main reason tuition is so high is because the majority of parents don't pay full tuition and even those parents who get breaks don't pay what they promise. So we are left with very large deficit gaps. We need to inflate the prices so those who can afford full will offset those who don't pay. Also if we ask a parent who doesn't have much to give for 15k a year we might get 6-7 but if we only ask for 10 we only get 4-5.

Do parents paying full tuition receive a donation letter for their portion that covers scholarships?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: notanonymous on May 18, 2014, 08:30:21 PM
imho its not lower tuition we need to invest in but quality education! schools often are nothing more than places kids are watched and hopefully learn social interaction with peers.

when we tackle schools are places to nurture little people and grow them to big people then this is a casus belli. on this board I may get attacked for my spelling or lack thereof but so what, learning good spelling, grammar and punctuation are hardly the tools to equipped students to succeed in life, you will not make a better spouse because you can spell better.

I do not understand the age grade level, its like we punish a kid for not being good at gemarah, why ? maybe he is the next chagal and simply hasent got the head. or desire ? but that does not mean he is a lackadaisical student, he could thrive in philosophy, nach, halacha or any thing.

I think students should get personality tests to determine what they would excell at academically and emotionally / personality.

I think we should reward not punish, seek to help these little people grow not stuff them with knowledge and facts.

I could have done much better with discussions on existence rather than learning Tanya etc its a belief I know many hold that the riggid education system must give way and there are schools with radical changes to the old system
I am sorry that you obviously had a bad experience, but that is not the norm.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 18, 2014, 08:45:47 PM
Do parents paying full tuition receive a donation letter for their portion that covers scholarships?
the Jewish schools are usually non-profit 501c(3) institutions. The families can get a tax deduction. Some pay tuition by cc, so they get points, too.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: skyguy918 on May 18, 2014, 08:52:58 PM
the Jewish schools are usually non-profit 501c(3) institutions. The families can get a tax deduction. Some pay tuition by cc, so they get points, too.
People may or may not do this, but according to the IRS, tuition is not deductible, even if it's paid to a 501c3.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: chevron on May 18, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
I am sorry that you obviously had a bad experience, but that is not the norm.

not from what I have heard from many, this was my feeling in elementary and high school 2 different states. maybe it highlights chabad education or maybe just me
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 09:03:00 PM
not from what I have heard from many, this was my feeling in elementary and high school 2 different states. maybe it highlights chabad education or maybe just me
As a product of Chabad education I've had better years and worse years, I believe it was a function of the teachers not the system...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Sport on May 18, 2014, 09:13:18 PM
As a product of Chabad education I've had better years and worse years, I believe it was a function of the teachers not the system...
Sub par teachers are a product of tne system.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ayman on May 18, 2014, 09:18:14 PM
How many ppl who have responded to this thread so far are actually involved in Chinuch or Public Education? (IE not just talking out of their @ss.)

And how many of those actually involved actually received any training whatsoever and weren't just thrown into a classroom because they like children?

#Justcurious
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sky121 on May 18, 2014, 09:25:04 PM
Honestly, if all people in chinuch actually liked and cared about the children we'd already be so much better off than we are now.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Saver2000 on May 18, 2014, 09:39:44 PM
Just read through this thread. 

There was normal conversation going  on about tuition costs. 

Then chevron piped up about his bad experience in school and changed the conversation.

@chevron please start a new thread.  Not necessary to take this OT (especially just bec you had a bad experience).

Thanx

My 2 cents on the tuition crisis coming up soon  ;)
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Saver2000 on May 18, 2014, 09:52:28 PM
@ayman,  besides for chevrons comment, what does this thread have to do with people who are in chinuch? The people paying tuition are regular working people.

Obviously insight from a school administrator would help clarify things,  but otherwise. .. .?

And regarding your 2nd question -  please post that in chevrons new thread dedicated to ripping rabbeim/teachers/curriculum. 
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: eis517 on May 18, 2014, 10:01:16 PM
Human Brand in Kansas City did something like Dan suggested about lowering tuition and asking those who could afford to give more to do it as charity.  From what I remember it has been working well.  Enrolment has grown
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: GAJ2303 on May 18, 2014, 10:10:56 PM

People may or may not do this, but according to the IRS, tuition is not deductible, even if it's paid to a 501c3.

Would the portion that covers the other students tuition be tax deductible? If the school can differentiate the actual average cost per student. What about the building fund?
Title: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: peacenlove613 on May 18, 2014, 10:15:11 PM
Do parents paying full tuition receive a donation letter for their portion that covers scholarships?
No legally you cannot give a tax receipt for tuition payments.


People may or may not do this, but according to the IRS, tuition is not deductible, even if it's paid to a 501c3.
+1
Legally even if someone wants to pay for a specific persons tuition he cannot receive a tax receipt. We have to put it down as a general donation and then decide on our own to give that person a break.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: notanonymous on May 18, 2014, 10:17:06 PM
How many ppl who have responded to this thread so far are actually involved in Chinuch or Public Education? (IE not just talking out of their @ss.)

And how many of those actually involved actually received any training whatsoever and weren't just thrown into a classroom because they like children?

#Justcurious
Involved, took training.
FTR, the training was not helpful...if you needed to be told what they said, then this job is not for you.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sky121 on May 18, 2014, 10:19:23 PM
Involved, took training.
FTR, the training was not helpful...if you needed to be told what they said, then this job is not for you.

I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. I'm not saying training can't help but if you don't have it training won't help much.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: lunatic on May 18, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
the Jewish schools are usually non-profit 501c(3) institutions. The families can get a tax deduction. Some pay tuition by cc, so they get points, too.
-1. Do tuition gets you no tax benefits
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 18, 2014, 10:23:42 PM
-1. Do tuition gets you no tax benefits
YMMV...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 10:30:27 PM
How many ppl who have responded to this thread so far are actually involved in Chinuch or Public Education? (IE not just talking out of their @ss.)

And how many of those actually involved actually received any training whatsoever and weren't just thrown into a classroom because they like children?

#Justcurious
Those are infinitely better than those who were just thrown into a classroom because they couldn't find a better job (even if they underwent 'training'...)
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: lunatic on May 18, 2014, 10:31:02 PM
YMMV...

Hmmmm, maybe my kids are going to the wrong schools
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: notanonymous on May 18, 2014, 10:36:02 PM
Those are infinitely better than those who were just thrown into a classroom because they couldn't find a better job (even if they underwent 'training'...)
+1
A menahel told me once, that the most important thing he looks for when hiring, is the relationship the potential rebbi has with the boys.  Everything else can be learned, but a natural ability to interact with the boys is necessary.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 18, 2014, 10:37:41 PM
Hmmmm, maybe my kids are going to the wrong right schools
FTFY....
actually, the schools with less of the 'charitable' tax-deduction offers/scenarios may actually be the better, high-quality, top Chinuch schools of the USA.
once again depends on the state, location, school size, and ymmv...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: notanonymous on May 18, 2014, 10:38:05 PM
But, like Saver said, all this it OT...

Just read through this thread. 

There was normal conversation going  on about tuition costs. 


Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 10:42:01 PM
But, like Saver said, all this it OT...

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/3HPR0/stop-the-presses/image.png)
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 18, 2014, 10:44:17 PM
that's very funny!  A good laugh...  ^ ^
The new "DDF mascot". Did you just make that one now?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 10:57:21 PM
That was just the cutest "stop the presses" meme I found on Google...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Saver2000 on May 18, 2014, 11:20:33 PM
@achas,  I dont take it personally if someone takes a topic OT.  I just find it annoying.  I guess I'm the only one. 

It's one thing if it happens naturally.  It's something else when a semi-troll feels the need to vent -  he comes out of nowhere and vents his frustrations. 

It's not like this thread  was anyways  dying out,  it just started. 

#ImOut
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2014, 11:33:54 PM
@achas,  I dont take it personally if someone takes a topic OT.  I just find it annoying.  I guess I'm the only one. 

It's one thing if it happens naturally.  It's something else when a semi-troll feels the need to vent -  he comes out of nowhere and vents his frustrations. 

It's not like this thread  was anyways  dying out,  it just started. 

#ImOut
You are right, it is annoying I was just making light of the situation and it may not have been in place
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: chevron on May 18, 2014, 11:50:09 PM
The reason I went OT, because there has been much discussion about home schooling as school costs are so high and many questioning the effectiveness of schools
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 19, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
My impression is that MO yeshivas are more professional and better run.  I also think they charge a lot more.  Perhaps because the MO community tends to have fewer children per family, their total tuition bill is still manageable.

Chssidisher yeshivos I think are often really cheap.  Because the community funds are used to run the school, shul, etc.  So when they fund raise, the yeshiva gets its share.  Although in tight times their girls school often gets the short end of the stick.

---------------------------------------
My pet peeve on school funds:

Schools are often top heavy with administrators and staff getting salaries for doing very little. 
There's too much nepotism in hiring for the top posts.  Just because someone's father/grandfather/uncle was a good principal is not a reason to hire him to be principal straight out of kollel with no experience or formal training.    So we end up hiring 2 people to do the job of the good, strong principal who retired.


(Adding to the problem of actually being mechanech the children: Teachers don't easily get fired for incompetence. If a new teacher needs more training and guidance, he should be allowed room to grow.  But one who show incompetence year after year, needs a new profession.  If a teacher has a mean streak he belongs out immediately.)
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: chevron on May 19, 2014, 01:13:05 AM
My impression is that MO yeshivas are more professional and better run.  I also think they charge a lot more.  Perhaps because the MO community tends to have fewer children per family, their total tuition bill is still manageable.

Chssidisher yeshivos I think are often really cheap.  Because the community funds are used to run the school, shul, etc.  So when they fund raise, the yeshiva gets its share.  Although in tight times their girls school often gets the short end of the stick.

---------------------------------------
My pet peeve on school funds:

Schools are often top heavy with administrators and staff getting salaries for doing very little. 
There's too much nepotism in hiring for the top posts.  Just because someone's father/grandfather/uncle was a good principal is not a reason to hire him to be principal straight out of kollel with no experience or formal training.    So we end up hiring 2 people to do the job of the good, strong principal who retired.


(Adding to the problem of actually being mechanech the children: Teachers don't easily get fired for incompetence. If a new teacher needs more training and guidance, he should be allowed room to grow.  But one who show incompetence year after year, needs a new profession.  If a teacher has a mean streak he belongs out immediately.)

Or because the MO hadracha is more of a formal schooling system brought over from europe, while the chasidic / litvak etc derech just builds of cheder to yeshiva with no structure.

This was addressed actual by merkaz anash but I dont recall the whole thing, how years ago not everyone could afford a melamed, most went to cheder although sadly a few could not, most did not learn past bar mitzvah.. few who did were either sons of wealthy / rabbanus or were big talmidei chachamim.

Any ways back on topic, I read years ago in WSJ or NYT about a reform temply that used a persons income % to calculate mebership dues, here is an example http://www.beth-israel.org/giving/fair-share

Back OT, on the one hand what many of our great grandfathers toiled for to send their kids to cheder or pay the melamed.. going hungry etc.. But we have lost focus I think and really some yeshivas need to really overhaul.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: satturn on May 19, 2014, 04:23:21 AM
If you tell them their tuition will go down from $12K to $6K per kid and that they can directly help fund a much needed scholarship fund with tax-deductible maiser dollars, I think most would respond generously.

I mean if it's true that just ~5% is paying full anyway and the rest have to grovel for a break, what is there to lose?
I work in the financial aid department of a yeshiva- we have a bunch of wealthy parents who ask for financial aid- because they look at it like a business- "it cant hurt to ask for a reduction." We are put in a situation that to reject someone for a reduction outright creates bad blood. so we end up giving them a small "courtesy reduction." The issue with the article is will those people give a extra charity donation? It is not a majority who are like that- but we have 5+ a year out of 100.       
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: peacenlove613 on May 19, 2014, 08:52:39 AM

I work in the financial aid department of a yeshiva- we have a bunch of wealthy parents who ask for financial aid- because they look at it like a business- "it cant hurt to ask for a reduction." We are put in a situation that to reject someone for a reduction outright creates bad blood. so we end up giving them a small "courtesy reduction." The issue with the article is will those people give a extra charity donation? It is not a majority who are like that- but we have 5+ a year out of 100.     
Really? You give parent who can afford it a break?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 19, 2014, 09:14:03 AM
I'm a parent 'who can afford it'.  Many years ago, when we started at our boys yeshiva, we were shown a long list of fees and obligations as part of registration.  We asked, "What do you really expect us to pay?" We were given a fair price, we agreed, and have been getting minor raises ever since. Were we given a 'break'?  Yes- we're not paying the overblown 'subsidize all the non-payers' price.  Are we more than covering the cost of my children? I think we're at least breaking even.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 19, 2014, 09:23:36 AM
I'm a parent 'who can afford it'.  Many years ago, when we started at our boys yeshiva, we were shown a long list of fees and obligations as part of registration.  We asked, "What do you really expect us to pay?" We were given a fair price, we agreed, and have been getting minor raises ever since. Were we given a 'break'?  Yes- we're not paying the overblown 'subsidize all the non-payers' price.  Are we more than covering the cost of my children? I think we're at least breaking even.
that's an excellent attitude. If all parents could put that much practicality and effort in, then most schools would be more 'even-handed'.

However, as mentioned earlier in the thread in regard to people who may be able to afford 80 - 90% of full tuition are looking for more breaks, then the total incoming dollars are not enough for the school to meet expenses....
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 19, 2014, 09:48:50 AM
I'm a parent 'who can afford it'.  Many years ago, when we started at our boys yeshiva, we were shown a long list of fees and obligations as part of registration.  We asked, "What do you really expect us to pay?" We were given a fair price, we agreed, and have been getting minor raises ever since. Were we given a 'break'?  Yes- we're not paying the overblown 'subsidize all the non-payers' price.  Are we more than covering the cost of my children? I think we're at least breaking even.
That's basically how I understood it, tuition is overblown, those who 'can't afford' get a discount those who can afford to pay their own kids tuition get a small break (i.e. they pay the 'real' uninflated tuition price) and those of us who are lucky to be able to help out a little more are expected to put in their fair share in helping the school run...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 19, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
That's basically how I understood it, tuition is overblown, those who 'can't afford' get a discount ....
if it would end at just 'get a discount', the schools would be in excellent shape.
However, many families tell the schools that can't afford to pay even $1,000 per child and they still have 2 cars, 2+ smartphones, kids' extra-curricular activities, kids' iPads/smartphones, cable TV, own a home, no 2-full time jobs, and yet the teachers are low-salary and no health insurance....

(btw.. I don't add vacations into that mix as some tuition committees do  -- I'm a big believer in taking family vacations. On DDF, we know it can be done with great combination of luxury and affordability. And, it's good chinuch for families to spend quality time together...) 

Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: flugal on May 19, 2014, 10:54:38 AM
True.
But it can also be accomplished even for one school.
Lower tuition to a level that 90% can afford, eliminate all scholarships, and get backers to create a fund for those who are truly in need.
The people paying full now would be thrilled to donate large sums of money that's tax-deductible and counts as maiser l'chol hadayos.

Seems like a no-brainer. Why is noone trying it?

The guy who wrote the Op-ed, along with some other people, actually started a new school, now in its 2nd year, that does operate under this financial model. They've set tuition significantly lower than any of the other schools in the area, with no add-on fees and none of the tuition money going to scholarships. So far, the need for scholarships has been much lower than the other local schools because people will stretch to figure things out financially when it's a smaller amount rather than go through the financial aid process.
The financial aid for those few who can't afford it comes from fundraising.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: good sam on May 19, 2014, 02:41:31 PM
The guy who wrote the Op-ed, along with some other people, actually started a new school, now in its 2nd year, that does operate under this financial model. They've set tuition significantly lower than any of the other schools in the area, with no add-on fees and none of the tuition money going to scholarships. So far, the need for scholarships has been much lower than the other local schools because people will stretch to figure things out financially when it's a smaller amount rather than go through the financial aid process.
The financial aid for those few who can't afford it comes from fundraising.
That school also has a radically different education model that is significantly less expensive to implement than the traditional one.  That's the controversial part, but the op-ed is something everyone can wrap their minds around. It's a sad sad reality that the only reason it's not going to happen is because it's impossible to get different schools to cooperate with one another.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on May 19, 2014, 03:30:17 PM
That school also has a radically different education model that is significantly less expensive to implement than the traditional one.  That's the controversial part, but the op-ed is something everyone can wrap their minds around. It's a sad sad reality that the only reason it's not going to happen is because it's impossible to get different schools to cooperate with one another.
some schools in some communities can and do work together. For example I know of places where a group of schools have an understood standard that they charge a tuition rate 18% post taxes for all the children together as the minimum payment. It's a great start.

However, when there are families that do not have any income/earn under $20K on the books, no 'typical' jobs (both parents),
some have nice 'grandparents' that give special gifts, etc... then there is often close to $0 paid in tuition for 2-8 children and the full-time long-term teachers still have low salaries and no health insurance.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: flugal on May 19, 2014, 04:57:28 PM
That school also has a radically different education model that is significantly less expensive to implement than the traditional one.  That's the controversial part, but the op-ed is something everyone can wrap their minds around. It's a sad sad reality that the only reason it's not going to happen is because it's impossible to get different schools to cooperate with one another.
I don't want to take this off topic, but I disagree on it being radically different.
Either way, my point was only that financially, some of his ideas in the op-ed have worked on a smaller scale, at least for 2 years. And I completely agree with what you said that it's sad the schools can't get together to figure this out. Also sad that the Rabbonim and community leaders in many communities haven't forced the issue more.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: elit on May 19, 2014, 05:58:03 PM
Bc one school has lasted two years, where everyone has signed up for this school specifically because of, or knowing that, the school is working the Tuition this way Is no indication that it can work on a mass scale
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: flugal on May 19, 2014, 06:20:55 PM
Bc one school has lasted two years, where everyone has signed up for this school specifically because of, or knowing that, the school is working the Tuition this way Is no indication that it can work on a mass scale
I agree that it's not proof that it will work on a mass scale, but doing nothing clearly has not worked.
I'm not sure what the parents knowing the tuition model has to do with your point though. I would think many of them would be on scholarships in other schools.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: sb613 on May 19, 2014, 08:25:22 PM

Source?

http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa662.pdf
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ysteichman on May 19, 2014, 10:26:24 PM
The basic answer is that it is high because there is nothing anyone can do about it. The schools for the most part don't answer to the parents and the rabbonim and organizations are unwilling to get involved. The only one that has is the Agudah but I am underwhelmed by the advice they give, which is to vote for their politicians. That is not the long term answer. There needs to be transparency and accountability. I work in gov't funded education and everything gets picked apart. Shouldn't our hard earned money and tzedakah monies be subject to the same scrutiny?

My (very strong) belief is that the only way to quickly fix the issue is to charge a standard tuition, calculated by dividing annual expenses by the number of students (revolutionary, I know), which everyone must pay. For those who cannot, there should be a community fund they can go to. If the rabbonim stress the importance of donating to this fund, hopefully we can build up stores that can support the needy yeshivas in times of crisis.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ganizzy on May 19, 2014, 10:38:39 PM
I liveIn California,
I am a parent that is getting a discount.  Instead of paying 11k or so,  I'm paying half.
Maybe I'm wrong but my attitude is that even with the scholarship I am paying plenty,  almost 20k per year total. I don't have to live a life of absolute poverty to pay a little more.
And no,  I don't have luxuries.  Don't pay for summer camp,  extra curricular activities,  expensive Sunday outings,  vacations. ..

A year or two ago,  the school announced that they were lowering tuition and seeing up a separate fund for scholarships. The 11k would go strictly to tuition.
Don't know if it helped,  but this year they wrote a letter that less financial aid would be given out bec of lack of funds.

Everyone complains about the lack of Good teachers, but in my circles the teachers do not make a very good salary,  definitely not enough to set up a decent retirement fund.
So that leaves 2 issues,
1- people are not running into chinuch like they would doctors or lawyers bec the pay is not worth it and it's not seen as a "choshuv" job.  So u don't have a ton of applicants and get to choose the best to be teachers.

2- as they get older and perhaps not as good of a teacher,  the school finds it hard to lay them off bec they have no income and no retirement
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: BigDanFan on May 19, 2014, 10:51:39 PM
At $5,500 per child for 4 children as the 'scholarship' avg tuition is an excellent base. 20K a year is a lot for annual tuition.

Most schools would do very well if that were the case for every non-full tuition paying child. Too many families claim that they are so poor, they pay under $1 - $2K per child and spend in lots of other areas, drive expensive cars, have iPhones, their kids have iPhones, and then they are bothered by the quality of the teachers.... 
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ayman on May 19, 2014, 11:36:26 PM
Sorry this took so long. Just a few responses.

@ayman,  besides for chevrons comment, what does this thread have to do with people who are in chinuch? The people paying tuition are regular working people.

Obviously insight from a school administrator would help clarify things,  but otherwise. .. .? 
Point one is true, and I'm not saying that there is something wrong with them speaking from their point of view. But as you say in point two, you would really need to speak with a school administrator (like peacenlove) to find out the true costs for running a school or yeshiva. Just because someone is a hardworking person, with some seichal, does not mean they know what it takes to run a school and what the costs are. To base your calculations solely on what you think a teachers salary ought to be is ridiculous.

Involved, took training.
FTR, the training was not helpful...if you needed to be told what they said, then this job is not for you.
There are definitely people who are naturally more suited for the job and people who are less so. There are people who do not need any training whatsoever and others that you can train for years and they will still not be cut out for it. However, I don't believe that the training is useless for the majority. There are some very useful tips, techniques, theories and ideas that are learned in training. The best teachers IMO are always learning to teach. They do not say that I have been doing this for the past X amount of years so I'm good. There is always room for improvement.

Those are infinitely better than those who were just thrown into a classroom because they couldn't find a better job (even if they underwent 'training'...)
Huh?

Disclaimer: I do not currently pay a tuition. For parents to get together and try to come up with ideas to lower their costs is a great idea. Get together with the school administration and see what can be done. But to make calculations here on DDF based on fictional numbers in areas that you don't really have the whole picture just seems very funny to me...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: notanonymous on May 20, 2014, 12:07:28 AM

There are definitely people who are naturally more suited for the job and people who are less so. There are people who do not need any training whatsoever and others that you can train for years and they will still not be cut out for it. However, I don't believe that the training is useless for the majority. There are some very useful tips, techniques, theories and ideas that are learned in training. The best teachers IMO are always learning to teach. They do not say that I have been doing this for the past X amount of years so I'm good. There is always room for improvement.
100% Correct

Any mechanech who does not see the need to constantly grow is in the wrong profession.  However, the "training", although in theory is a good idea, IME practically did not help very much.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ayman on May 20, 2014, 12:08:37 AM
100% Correct

Any mechanech who does not see the need to constantly grow is in the wrong profession.  However, the "training", although in theory is a good idea, IME practically did not help very much.
I guess it depends then on the program doing the training?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: mlomni on May 20, 2014, 11:33:35 AM
Just want to throw something out to the DDF crowd. Why cant we send our children to Public School? And hire a Rabbi to each 1-2 hours a day after school. 
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Achas Veachas on May 20, 2014, 11:35:56 AM
Just want to throw something out to the DDF crowd. Why cant we send our children to Public School? And hire a Rabbi to each 1-2 hours a day after school.
Not practical everywhere/for everyone. Growing up in Crown Heights for example...
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: skyguy918 on May 20, 2014, 12:01:50 PM
Just want to throw something out to the DDF crowd. Why cant we send our children to Public School? And hire a Rabbi to each 1-2 hours a day after school.
Sure you can do that. But the products of that system will be vastly different than what we see today.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: dovy2 on May 20, 2014, 12:44:15 PM
Here is my idea to help the tuition crisis:
All schools in the neighborhood make an agreement that they will take in any child of any teacher teaching in one of these schools as long as he had more than one child,  for free.
 This way,  all schools (which are part of the above agreement) can pay their teachers much less (lowering overall costs) and everyone is happy.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 20, 2014, 12:50:06 PM
Actually, providing free tuition for teachers is unfair compensation.  Not all teachers have the same number of children.  So a teacher with 4 children in the school is getting 2x the bonus of someone with 2 in the school, and 4x the bonus of a childless teach (or one whose children have grown up).
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: aygart on May 20, 2014, 12:53:00 PM
Actually, providing free tuition for teachers is unfair compensation.  Not all teachers have the same number of children.  So a teacher with 4 children in the school is getting 2x the bonus of someone with 2 in the school, and 4x the bonus of a childless teach (or one whose children have grown up).
and family insurance policies....
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: ckmk47 on May 20, 2014, 12:55:01 PM
and family insurance policies....
I thought those are a flat price for the 'family plan'.  Not a per person cost.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: dovy2 on May 20, 2014, 01:55:14 PM
Actually, providing free tuition for teachers is unfair compensation.  Not all teachers have the same number of children.  So a teacher with 4 children in the school is getting 2x the bonus of someone with 2 in the school, and 4x the bonus of a childless teach (or one whose children have grown up).
I thought it was self understood,  but the schools will pay their teachers based upon how much they are "saving" by having their children in schools for free.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: skyguy918 on May 20, 2014, 02:52:57 PM
I thought it was self understood,  but the schools will pay their teachers based upon how much they are "saving" by having their children in schools for free.
Each teacher is not paid a salary reflecting how many children they're receiving free tuition for. That means that the 'price' of free tuition for teacher's children is not allocated to those actually benefiting from it, rather it's spread evenly across all teacher.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: dovy2 on May 20, 2014, 07:00:32 PM
Each teacher is not paid a salary reflecting how many children they're receiving free tuition for. That means that the 'price' of free tuition for teacher's children is not allocated to those actually benefiting from it, rather it's spread evenly across all teacher.
I was taking about my new idea. It's not something that happens
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: skyguy918 on May 20, 2014, 10:47:46 PM
I was taking about my new idea. It's not something that happens
If you lower the salaries equally across all teachers, the burden is still being unfairly shifted from the teachers with more kids to the teachers with less (or no) kids. If you lower each teacher's salary based on how many kids they have in the schools, then you're just taking away the tuition benefit with nothing in return.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: A3 on April 30, 2018, 09:10:36 PM
Is it the norm for the schools to charge $$ for kindergarten graduation fee?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Sammy82 on April 30, 2018, 10:56:59 PM
Is it the norm for the schools to charge $$ for kindergarten graduation fee?
Huh? Really? I'm afraid to ask how much.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: mmgfarb on May 01, 2018, 01:13:51 AM
Is it the norm for the schools to charge $$ for kindergarten graduation fee?
What does that even mean? Where is the money going?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: mord1 on May 01, 2018, 02:44:19 AM
Is it the norm for the schools to charge $$ for kindergarten graduation fee?
I have not paid a kindergarten graduation fee
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: Jad982 on August 06, 2018, 10:59:43 AM
A big part of the problem is also that schools are top heavy. An administrator for this an administrator for that.
When I was in school you had a Principal, Asst. Principal, and Secretary and we made it through just fine
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: aygart on August 07, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
A big part of the problem is also that schools are top heavy. An administrator for this an administrator for that.
When I was in school you had a Principal, Asst. Principal, and Secretary and we made it through just fine
Who was in charge of paying salaries?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: farmbochur on August 07, 2018, 11:14:51 AM


Very good op-ed on the tuition crisis.

http://jstandard.com/content/item/putting_our_money_where_our_mouths_are/28821



It's such a no-brainer in my mind. Not to say that it'll be easy to implement properly, but it solves so many major issues. The tax issue is a big one IMO that it would solve, and it would also mean that you can give maaser to the scholarship organization according to all poskim (as opposed to when that money is included in tuition - which is not something universally agreed upon among the poskim).



And yet the op-ed is old and this is the first I've ever heard of it.
Though this is an issue I'd champion more than improving KSMLs.

Did you ever push for this in Cleveland?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: moko on August 07, 2018, 04:43:06 PM





Did you ever push for this in Cleveland?
they have it in Chicago. It's called the kehila fund
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: mercaz1 on August 07, 2018, 04:45:58 PM
they have it in Chicago. It's called the kehila fund

how much is tuition in Chicago yeshiva?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: moko on August 07, 2018, 04:52:59 PM
how much is tuition in Chicago yeshiva?
it varies but I believe in the 12k-14k range for k-8.
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: 12HRS on August 07, 2018, 08:48:36 PM
That woul cover for kids right?
Gur is making now a campaign parents should pay there balance of last 2 years, theyre expecting to bring in over million dollars if successful, and I think the average tuition peer child is ~300 per month

Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: moko on August 07, 2018, 08:53:20 PM


Tuition rates is like cc processing fees you keep your mouth shut you'll pay a price.

Can someone create a spreadsheet of all schools/yeshivas in NYC area, no becuase it boils down to how much you kvetch and your name.
There's no real data of average tuition parents pay
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jJF9icyyd5jMqY-pm06QbJqqAKXe0b9X-1-DOzbo4yk/edit#gid=1046444810
Title: Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
Post by: CS1 on August 07, 2018, 11:32:08 PM
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jJF9icyyd5jMqY-pm06QbJqqAKXe0b9X-1-DOzbo4yk/edit#gid=1046444810

is there also a USA doc ?