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Title: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on December 30, 2014, 03:38:21 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2891081/Delta-Airlines-flight-New-York-s-JFK-Airport-delayed-ultra-Orthodox-Jewish-passengers-refuse-sit-women.html

"DELTA flight delayed after Orthodox Jews refuse to sit next to women..."
www.drudgereport.com
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: benjie1305 on December 30, 2014, 03:42:28 PM
Again.. This issue ain't gonna go away unless the airlines let travel agents or users buy blocks of seats/rows.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ShlockDoc on December 30, 2014, 03:44:21 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2891081/Delta-Airlines-flight-New-York-s-JFK-Airport-delayed-ultra-Orthodox-Jewish-passengers-refuse-sit-women.html

"DELTA flight delayed after Orthodox Jews refuse to sit next to women..."
www.drudgereport.com

This isn't a chill Hashem. Hashem has nothing to do with this.  This is a chilul haJews. The misogynistic, anachronistic, racist Torah Taliban of today make the rest of us modern Jews look bad.  But just like with the Muslims, there are a lot of fundamentalists out there but also a lot of good ones.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ShlockDoc on December 30, 2014, 03:44:54 PM
Again.. This issue ain't gonna go away unless the airlines let travel agents or users buy blocks of seats/rows.

Or until the Jewish leadership tell their followers to stop being idiots.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 03:45:18 PM
This isn't a chill Hashem. Hashem has nothing to do with this.  This is a chilul haJews. The misogynistic, anachronistic, racist Torah Taliban of today make the rest of us modern Jews look bad.  But just like with the Muslims, there are a lot of fundamentalists out there but also a lot of good ones.
only ultra orthodox have to avoid touching
good to know
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on December 30, 2014, 03:45:48 PM
This isn't a chill Hashem. Hashem has nothing to do with this.  This is a chilul haJews. The misogynistic, anachronistic, racist Torah Taliban of today make the rest of us modern Jews look bad.  But just like with the Muslims, there are a lot of fundamentalists out there but also a lot of good ones.
Don't get technical with me :P Your point is valid regardless.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on December 30, 2014, 03:46:18 PM
only ultra orthodox have to avoid touching
good to know
Why was I not made aware of this during college!!
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
Why was I not made aware of this during college!!
whats funny is that the ultra orthodox who this is about probably wouldnt touch close relatives either
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on December 30, 2014, 03:50:26 PM
whats funny is that the ultra orthodox who this is about probably wouldnt touch close relatives either
Yes, I noticed that too. They'd never touch their spouse in public let alone a sister. Maybe a young daughter.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: TimT on December 30, 2014, 03:56:12 PM
This isn't a chill Hashem. Hashem has nothing to do with this.  This is a chilul haJews. The misogynistic, anachronistic, racist Torah Taliban of today make the rest of us modern Jews look bad.  But just like with the Muslims, there are a lot of fundamentalists out there but also a lot of good ones.
But they trash the religion as a whole. Hence the chillul hashem.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dan on December 30, 2014, 03:59:06 PM
I don't even get it.
Unless you're obese why do you have to touch the person next to you?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 04:00:34 PM
I don't even get it.
Unless you're obese why do you have to touch the person next to you?
um...dan...when was the last time you sat in coach?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dan on December 30, 2014, 04:07:54 PM
Why was I not made aware of this during college!!
alol

um...dan...when was the last time you sat in coach?
Last month.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: MC on December 30, 2014, 04:08:43 PM
um...dan...when was the last time you sat in coach?
I fly coach quite frequently and I hardly ever end up touching the person next to me.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 04:10:41 PM
Last month.
i think for your average person in a middle seat for 10 hours including bathroom, davening, etc, it is impossible to not, at least once, incidentally make contact with the person next to you. most of us would view it as, just that, incidental contact with no hirhurim and get on with our lives, trying to avoid it where possible. but these "ultra orthodox" dont view it that way
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dr Moose on December 30, 2014, 04:10:56 PM
I don't think the issue is touching the person next to them. it's probably too close for comfort especially for a long flight
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 30, 2014, 04:20:48 PM


I fly coach quite frequently and I HARDLY EVER end up touching the person next to me.
If Its a problem, Its a problem even If usually not
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dan on December 30, 2014, 04:22:15 PM
If Its a problem, Its a problem even If usually not
So don't walk in NYC or take a subway because usually you don't bump into anyone.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 04:22:31 PM
So don't walk in NYC or take a subway because usually you don't bump into anyone.
rav moshe already permitted that :)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 30, 2014, 04:23:09 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2891081/Delta-Airlines-flight-New-York-s-JFK-Airport-delayed-ultra-Orthodox-Jewish-passengers-refuse-sit-women.html

"DELTA flight delayed after Orthodox Jews refuse to sit next to women..."
www.drudgereport.com
Im pretty sure this did not need Its own thread. Is being a rabble rouser so neccesary?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 30, 2014, 04:24:52 PM
So don't walk in NYC or take a subway because usually you don't bump into anyone.
Separate heterim for that although im pretty sure these people stay away from that anyways
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 04:29:53 PM
Separate heterim for that although im pretty sure these people stay away from that anyways
these people should calmly try to solve the problem on their own. if people dont want to take a middle seat (dont blame them), then deal with it. if you dont like it, then dont fly, but dont bring down the rest of the jews with you
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on December 30, 2014, 04:37:02 PM
I don't define chillul Hashem as the Daily Mail looking down on a practice.  They look down on most of our halachos and minhagim--just it doesn't usually make the news.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: dealfinder85 on December 30, 2014, 04:37:44 PM
I don't define chillul Hashem as the Daily Mail looking down on a practice.  They look down on most of our halachos and minhagim--just it doesn't usually make the news.
how about for everyone else on the flight? does that qualify as a chilul Hashem?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on December 30, 2014, 05:19:42 PM
I don't define chillul Hashem as the Daily Mail looking down on a practice.  They look down on most of our halachos and minhagim--just it doesn't usually make the news.
How about this leading to a headline in the most read news aggregation site in the country for what any sane person would consider a selfish interpretation of law.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: sky121 on December 30, 2014, 05:22:59 PM
I don't define chillul Hashem as the Daily Mail looking down on a practice.  They look down on most of our halachos and minhagim--just it doesn't usually make the news.


It does when it affects others. And that's the whole point.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 30, 2014, 05:30:09 PM
Again.. This issue ain't gonna go away unless the airlines let travel agents or users buy blocks of seats/rows.
Throw their you know what in jail and watch how quickly it ends.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: TimT on December 30, 2014, 05:43:29 PM
Throw their you know what in jail and watch how quickly it ends.
& have stories all over the place of the airline being accused of anti-semitism ? Ain't gonna happen
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 30, 2014, 05:44:59 PM
& have stories all over the place of the airline being accused of anti-semitism ? Ain't gonna happen
That card like many others get overplayed and becomes worthless.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: TimT on December 30, 2014, 05:45:59 PM
That card like many others get overplayed
+1
and becomes worthless.
-1
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: avromie7 on December 30, 2014, 06:06:04 PM
That card like many others get overplayed and becomes worthless.
It's just like the blacks claiming racist it's very over used but still way too effective
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: MosheD on December 30, 2014, 08:19:59 PM
I don't define chillul Hashem as the Daily Mail looking down on a practice.  They look down on most of our halachos and minhagim--just it doesn't usually make the news.
+1
not saying I agree with the practice or that it is halachicly justified but following halacha is not a chillul hashem no matter how the masses view it. A chillul hashem is when you profane G-d's name by NOT following halacha... The q is, is this in line with halacha? They think yes so no matter what we say they will continue.
At least that is my understanding

As to a solution a friend was telling me about an app where you post your upcoming flights and find ppl on same flight as you and choose your seat accordingly - purpose being of course to find that cute girl, but I guess it could be used to accomplish the opposite
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: nobiggy on December 30, 2014, 08:28:42 PM
Total idiots.
I just traveled 8 hrs in economy next to a woman and there were no issues.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: DP7 on December 30, 2014, 08:30:09 PM
Do they sit next to their wives in Niddah?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 30, 2014, 08:41:09 PM
Do they sit next to their wives in Niddah?
Believe it or not, my Rov told me that when someone's wife is Niddah it's preferable next to an unrelated woman on a long-haul flight...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: DP7 on December 30, 2014, 08:42:25 PM

Believe it or not, my Rov told me that when someone's wife is Niddah it's preferable next to an unrelated woman on a long-haul flight...

Well I guess maybe they don't. I just think they need to R-E-L-A-X.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on December 30, 2014, 09:38:19 PM
How about this leading to a headline in the most read news aggregation site in the country for what any sane person would consider a selfish interpretation of law.

Still not the definition of chillul Hashem.  Chillul Hashem is when you don't follow halacha.  You're free to disagree here on the halacha, but their position has a very reasonable basis.

Total idiots.
I just traveled 8 hrs in economy next to a woman and there were no issues.

Liar.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: efflpetzel on December 30, 2014, 09:41:43 PM

Liar.
WTF?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: doodle on December 31, 2014, 12:22:22 AM
i wont sit next ladies, who are not "overdressed". you got a problem with that ??
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: doodle on December 31, 2014, 12:24:57 AM
Believe it or not, my Rov told me that when someone's wife is Niddah it's preferable next to an unrelated woman on a long-haul flight...
you need a new Rov . asap . better yet your whole shul does ...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on December 31, 2014, 12:47:00 AM
WTF?
Apparently henche doesn't believe that there was no problem
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 31, 2014, 01:43:44 AM
I am running out of popcorn.  :)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 31, 2014, 01:53:45 AM
you need a new Rov . asap . better yet your whole shul does ...
Im assuming you have even a speculative source to prove him wrong?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: doodle on December 31, 2014, 02:49:35 AM
tons . but instead me bringing pages of sources . USE YOUR COMMON SENSE
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: wayfe on December 31, 2014, 02:52:10 AM
tons . but instead me bringing pages of sources . USE YOUR COMMON SENSE
If it's an issue of halacha where does common sense come in?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 31, 2014, 03:12:00 AM
It's funny how these types threads give me such an idea of people's personalities, mentalities, upbringing,and character that I'm pretty confident and I can point out most of them out of a lineup.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 31, 2014, 03:12:36 AM

tons . but instead me bringing pages of sources . USE YOUR COMMON SENSE
how about one from an accepted source
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on December 31, 2014, 05:38:20 AM
I love how Judaism had become a complete passing the buck religion fire so many. There is no personal responsibility or conning sense. It's not my fault, my rav said I can't do it or I have to do it, it's not my fault. I'm just a lemming without any ownership of my actions.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 31, 2014, 07:32:28 AM
I love how Judaism had become a complete passing the buck religion fire so many. There is no personal responsibility or conning sense. It's not my fault, my rav said I can't do it or I have to do it, it's not my fault. I'm just a lemming without any ownership of my actions.
It is not only Judaism and well said.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 07:39:54 AM
If it's an issue of halacha where does common sense come in?
+1

I love how Judaism had become a complete passing the buck religion fire so many. There is no personal responsibility or conning sense. It's not my fault, my rav said I can't do it or I have to do it, it's not my fault. I'm just a lemming without any ownership of my actions.
I was not just "quoting my Rov". It was actually part of a long Shiur to my Kollel where he brought many sources that Negi'ah is more Chomur by Ishto Niddah than by a regular woman. This was years ago but I can try to look it up if I have a chance.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 07:43:51 AM
you need a new Rov . asap . better yet your whole shul does ...
I don't live there anymore but I'll send the memo to one of the largest Chabad communities outside of NY, that their world renown and respected Rov is no good anymore....
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: wayfe on December 31, 2014, 07:55:10 AM
If it's an issue of halacha where does common sense come in?
Eta: I'm not condoning anybody's disrespectful or misogynistic behavior- simply meant as reply to the post by @doodle
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: benjie1305 on December 31, 2014, 08:32:57 AM
Believe it or not, my Rov told me that when someone's wife is Niddah it's preferable next to an unrelated woman on a long-haul flight...

WHAT?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Centro on December 31, 2014, 09:01:02 AM
It's funny/sad to see how people would do things they wanna do or won't go out of their way even the halucha requires/prefers it all under the ticket of so called chilul hashem...

And if someone does, not only isn't he admired but he's being bashed, I don't say you should pull the headlines it's the point which I wanna bring out...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: DP7 on December 31, 2014, 09:23:09 AM

It's funny/sad to see how people would do things they wanna do or won't go out of their way even the halucha requires/prefers it all under the ticket of so called chilul hashem...

And if someone does, not only isn't he admired but he's being bashed, I don't say you should pull the headlines it's the point which I wanna bring out...

If it's so important to them to not sit next to a woman then they should buy the extra ticket, not cause a scene. There is no reason to admire these people. We must not follow the same "Halucha" as you like to misspell it.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 09:55:02 AM
If it's so important to them to not sit next to a woman then they should buy the extra ticket, not cause a scene...
Easy for you to say...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: SRM on December 31, 2014, 10:02:59 AM
I imagine the issue isn't only about touching or sitting next to a woman, but also about sitting between two women. Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing, just stating a point.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: coralsnake on December 31, 2014, 10:04:53 AM
Believe it or not, my Rov told me that when someone's wife is Niddah it's preferable next to an unrelated woman on a long-haul flight...
Did he also tell you that if your wife is a niddah and the sidewalk is icy that it's preferable not to hold her arm?

What about someone who's not your wife?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on December 31, 2014, 10:07:35 AM

Did he also tell you that if your wife is a niddah and the sidewalk is icy that it's preferable not to hold her arm?

What about someone who's not your wife?
without going into the answer to that, do you really think that's a comparable scenario?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 10:09:34 AM
Did he also tell you that if your wife is a niddah and the sidewalk is icy that it's preferable not to hold her arm?

What about someone who's not your wife?
::) What does one have to do with the other? If someone is falling you have an obligation to help no matter who it is...

For those looking for sources I just checked my notes from that Shiur. I didn't write it very clearely but it seems to be based on Taharah Kahalachah (R' Farkash) based on the Shevet Halevi. I'll look up the Sforim when I get home.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: gozalim on December 31, 2014, 10:15:03 AM
Believe it or not, my Rov told me that when someone's wife is Niddah it's preferable next to an unrelated woman on a long-haul flight...
for all you Clevelanders out there I'm pretty sure rabbi c.gives the same guidance
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: coralsnake on December 31, 2014, 10:15:36 AM
::) What does one have to do with the other? If someone is falling you have an obligation to help no matter who it is...

I didn't say anyone was falling. But it just snowed the day before and there are piles of snow and some ice. Does one have to wait for the person to fall?

Is it also preferable to share a bedroom with an unrelated woman while ones wife is a niddah? This will ensure you don't accidentally bump into her like on a plane.

I'm just asking questions.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
for all you Clevelanders out there I'm pretty sure rabbi c.gives the same guidance
you need a new Rov . asap . better yet your whole shul does ...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: chff on December 31, 2014, 10:16:41 AM
I flew one with a group of buchrim on LH, the flight also left 30 minutes late. They were very accommodating, switch around however needed, and they offered (gave) for the affected pax (not us...) a small chocolate or the like (don't remember exactly) and it didn't make the news, end of story.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 10:17:55 AM
I didn't say anyone was falling. But it just snowed the day before and there are piles of snow and some ice. Does one have to wait for the person to fall?

Is it also preferable to share a bedroom with an unrelated woman while ones wife is a niddah? This will ensure you don't accidentally bump into her like on a plane.

I'm just asking questions.
You don't share a bedroom with your wife when she's Nidah? :o

Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 31, 2014, 10:18:17 AM
Is it also preferable to share a bedroom with an unrelated woman while ones wife is a niddah? This will ensure you don't accidentally bump into her like on a plane.
I almost chocked on my popcorn.  :)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 10:18:28 AM
I flew one with a group of buchrim on LH, the flight also left 30 minutes late. They were very accommodating, switch around however needed, and they offered (gave) for the affected pax (not us...) a small chocolate or the like (don't remember exactly) and it didn't make the news, end of story.
Like 99% of flights that have Charedi pax...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: aygart on December 31, 2014, 10:29:03 AM

I'm just asking questions.
liar
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on December 31, 2014, 10:40:09 AM
I almost chocked on my popcorn.  :)
Good thing you were not at shallots now.  Wouldn't want to choke on prime rib
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: skyguy918 on December 31, 2014, 10:40:25 AM
liar
This is not going to become a thing on DDF, right? Please say yes.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on December 31, 2014, 10:42:01 AM
+1
I was not just "quoting my Rov". It was actually part of a long Shiur to my Kollel where he brought many sources that Negi'ah is more Chomur by Ishto Niddah than by a regular woman. This was years ago but I can try to look it up if I have a chance.

This is true, and is easily provable by the myriad restrictions that apply to ishto niddah but not to strangers.  Such as: passing things, sitting at a table without a heker, etc.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on December 31, 2014, 10:44:17 AM
Did he also tell you that if your wife is a niddah and the sidewalk is icy that it's preferable not to hold her arm?


That is definitely the halacha.  If it is actually pikuach nefesh, I think that would be talui on the discussion brought in the shach regarding if you are a doctor and she is choleh sh'yesh bo sakana and nobody else is available to treat her.

But if it's pikuach nefesh, maybe you should just stay home.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Centro on December 31, 2014, 10:45:15 AM
Total idiots.
I just traveled 8 hrs in economy next to a woman and there were no issues.
It reminds me of what the Satmar Rav Z"L said about "litvish" dating "How many aveiros did they have to commit for this not to have an effect on them"
Vhameivin Yavin
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 31, 2014, 10:53:51 AM
Good thing you were not at shallots now.  Wouldn't want to choke on prime rib
I can check back in tomorrow night. I am sure this nonsense will still be going on.
Why do these threads remind me of Groundhog Day?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: skyguy918 on December 31, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
I can check back in tomorrow night. I am sure this nonsense will still be going on.
Why do these threads remind me of Groundhog Day?
Including your reaction to each of them?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on December 31, 2014, 11:20:26 AM
I can check back in tomorrow night. I am sure this nonsense will still be going on.
Why do these threads remind me of Groundhog Day?
I will try to remember to bump it for you
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: aygart on December 31, 2014, 11:28:42 AM
I will try to remember to bump it for you
you won't need to
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 31, 2014, 11:35:18 AM
Including your reaction to each of them?
I am consistent.  :)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: skyguy918 on December 31, 2014, 12:09:58 PM
I am consistent.  :)
As is the rest of this crowd.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: etech0 on December 31, 2014, 12:12:16 PM
As is the rest of this crowd.
consistently inconsistent?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: doodle on December 31, 2014, 12:18:30 PM
how about one from an accepted source
  not a discussion for a public forum . will only reply to PMs
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on December 31, 2014, 12:20:40 PM
  not a discussion for a public forum . will only reply to PMs
So you come on here to be Motzi La'az on an Eda Shleima and their Rabbonim and when someone calls you out on it you go hide in PMs?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: CS1 on December 31, 2014, 12:37:22 PM
That is definitely the halacha.  If it is actually pikuach nefesh, I think that would be talui on the discussion brought in the shach regarding if you are a doctor and she is choleh sh'yesh bo sakana and nobody else is available to treat her.

But if it's pikuach nefesh, maybe you should just stay home.

a couple in that situation can easily have their 2 sep seats and a middle armrest and be covered by those detaisl...
If extreme, then buy an window and an aisle seat if that's the extent that they require...  no need for further Pikuach Nefesh extremes or staying home...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on December 31, 2014, 12:40:22 PM
a couple in that situation can easily have their 2 sep seats and a middle armrest and be covered by those detaisl...
If extreme, then buy an window and an aisle seat if that's the extent that they require...  no need for further Pikuach Nefesh extremes or staying home...
Are you actually taking henche seriously
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: CS1 on December 31, 2014, 12:50:35 PM
Are you actually taking henche seriously

...no worries.... I know better than that...  ;)  ....   I just think that they all need to chill and see what halacha really states.  Often, their actions and/or alternatives are worse than the original underlying issue....

Imagine when the boats would sail for 8 weeks, and there would be turbulence -- someone could inadvertently fall and bang into someone... It's not planned, it's not an aveira, it's life... #1 -- they'll manage in an appropriate manner --  #2 -- If they are that concerned on an airplane, then it's THEIR responsibility to take necessary paid precautions to avoid it -- and NOT make Delta the culprit....
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on December 31, 2014, 12:59:06 PM
a couple in that situation can easily have their 2 sep seats and a middle armrest and be covered by those detaisl...
If extreme, then buy an window and an aisle seat if that's the extent that they require...  no need for further Pikuach Nefesh extremes or staying home...

I was responding to the icy street scenario, to be clear
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: CS1 on December 31, 2014, 01:02:18 PM
I was responding to the icy street scenario, to be clear

haaa..... wow! How's THAT for a 'cross reference'!?!  :) ...'!???!  "schar Halicha"... seems like ages ago -- was that yesterday!?
Or are you referring to the "if-a-lady-slips-down-the-hill-on-the-ice and bumps into a man and is hurt badly and needs medical help - type of scenario.....?....... 
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: gozalim on December 31, 2014, 02:29:55 PM
I can check back in tomorrow night. I am sure this nonsense will still be going on.
Why do these threads remind me of Groundhog Day?
in the name of mutual respect:
If Mary hadn't sat next to a man, there would be no Xmas...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 31, 2014, 02:34:33 PM
in the name of mutual respect:
If Mary hadn't sat next to a man, there would be no Xmas...
Since have mutual respect can we use Christmas?  ;)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Aaaron on December 31, 2014, 04:35:05 PM
in the name of mutual respect:
If Mary hadn't sat next to a man, there would be no Xmas...

My yeshiva didn't have sex ed, but I don't believe sitting next to someone is enough.  ;)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: efflpetzel on December 31, 2014, 05:13:29 PM
@CM, I need a popcorn refill urgently!
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Yordai Dooma on December 31, 2014, 05:18:29 PM
@CM, I need a popcorn refill urgently!
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/popcorn-gifs/ziLcI.gif)
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/popcorn-gifs/qB7b6.gif)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on December 31, 2014, 05:20:54 PM
Which one is cm?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Yordai Dooma on December 31, 2014, 05:26:01 PM
Which one is cm?
They are both him.
Those at the DDF DO tomorrow will have to confirm for those of us who cant make it.
The first one was when the thread was just getting started and he was eating it so gracefully.
the second one was as the thread progessed
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on December 31, 2014, 06:54:43 PM
Hmm, very different than this http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=43048.0
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: 12HRS on December 31, 2014, 07:37:41 PM
That is definitely the halacha.  If it is actually pikuach nefesh, I think that would be talui on the discussion brought in the shach regarding if you are a doctor and she is choleh sh'yesh bo sakana and nobody else is available to treat her.

But if it's pikuach nefesh, maybe your wife should just stay home.

Ftfy
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: gozalim on December 31, 2014, 11:53:53 PM
My yeshiva didn't have ed, but I don't believe sitting next to someone is enough.  ;)
you know that and I know that, but Immaculate conception doesn't know that...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: TimT on December 31, 2014, 11:56:12 PM
FWIW it's finally off of drudge
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: chff on January 01, 2015, 01:08:19 AM
FWIW it's finally off of drudge
Its news from a year ago...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Galitzyaner on January 01, 2015, 01:51:45 AM
I imagine the issue isn't only about touching or sitting next to a woman, but also about sitting between two women. Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing, just stating a point.
Isn't that issur לעבור? I didn't see it say לשבת ;).
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Moishebatchy on January 01, 2015, 05:05:33 AM
I am running out of popcorn.  :)

Here, you're gonna need this...

(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u356/tikarri/food/popcorn_100000.jpg)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: real-brisker on January 01, 2015, 06:03:08 AM
Or this?

Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 01, 2015, 09:27:36 AM
Here, you're gonna need this...
Like the threads before this it just about ran it's course.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 01, 2015, 09:28:30 AM
Or this?
Not big on beer with popcorn but pizza would be another story.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: TimT on January 01, 2015, 09:29:44 AM
Like the threads before this it just about ran it's course.
Good. Now everyone will be able to focus on the food tonight.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 01, 2015, 09:33:14 AM
Good. Now everyone will be able to focus on the food tonight.
Prime Rib baby!
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on January 01, 2015, 06:20:40 PM
I can check back in tomorrow night. I am sure this nonsense will still be going on.
Why do these threads remind me of Groundhog Day?
Bump for cm.  Let the nonsense begin
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: chff on January 02, 2015, 10:06:36 AM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/ (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 10:21:59 AM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/ (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/)
“There are solutions to this problem…we will soon enforce rules that will satisfy all passengers,” Saudia assistant manager for marketing Abdul Rahman Al Fahd said, according to Saudi daily Ajel.

How about the passengers that want to sit next to someone's wife?  :)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: DMYD on January 02, 2015, 10:48:13 AM
“There are solutions to this problem…we will soon enforce rules that will satisfy all passengers,” Saudia assistant manager for marketing Abdul Rahman Al Fahd said, according to Saudi daily Ajel.

How about the passengers that want to sit next to someone's wife?  :)
LOL buy LY would never even think of such a thing, but I am sure lots of people would love this idea.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 02, 2015, 10:48:57 AM
LOL buy LY would never even think of such a thing, but I am sure lots of people would love this idea.
If LY even THOUGHT about this the outcry would storm the heavens....
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: DMYD on January 02, 2015, 10:50:36 AM
If LY even THOUGHT about this the outcry would storm the heavens....
They could leave some room in the back for those men, I think everyone would be happy.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on January 02, 2015, 12:21:47 PM
They could leave some room in the back for those men, I think everyone would be happy.

+1

They used to have smoking and nonsmoking.  Some planes have movie and nonmovie.  Why can't they put people who ask to be in the last few rows?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 12:28:42 PM
They used to have smoking and nonsmoking. 
Blacks also use to ride at the back of the bus.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 02, 2015, 12:30:14 PM
Blacks also use to ride at the back of the bus.
No one is forcing anyone to sit in the gender segregated back.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 12:37:42 PM
No one is forcing anyone to sit in the gender segregated back.
So if we make the front of the plane for women and the back for men that would solve the problem for this group?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: coralsnake on January 02, 2015, 12:40:33 PM
So if we make the front of the plane for women and the back for men that would solve the problem for this group?
Only if women are in the back  :P
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: henche on January 02, 2015, 12:41:39 PM
So if we make the front of the plane for women and the back for men that would solve the problem for this group?

Yes.

Don't even need to make a whole section.  Can even just have the computer arrange that men can request to only sit next to men if they want.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 02, 2015, 12:47:11 PM
So if we make the front of the plane for women and the back for men that would solve the problem for this group?
For some people though not for others. I think what people were talking about though was having half the plane segregated and half mixed.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 12:47:50 PM
Yes.
For some reason I think you are wrong.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 02, 2015, 12:50:01 PM
For some reason I think you are wrong.
-1
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 12:51:39 PM
For some people though not for others. I think what people were talking about though was having half the plane segregated and half mixed.
I though we were talking about certain individuals who claim for religious reasons they can't sit next to women. My point is it goes a lot deeper than that and I think history will back me up.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 02, 2015, 12:59:56 PM
I though we were talking about certain individuals who claim for religious reasons they can't sit next to women. My point is it goes a lot deeper than that and I think history will back me up.
That is a separate issue.

No one ever made a big deal because he was placed BEHIND a woman on a plane...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 01:03:04 PM
No one ever made a big deal because he was placed BEHIND a woman on a plane...
That's because there are not separate sections. If SA goes ahead with this do you think the front section will be for men or woman?
How about if you change the plane to a bus?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on January 02, 2015, 01:04:01 PM
That's because there are not separate sections. If SA goes ahead with this do you think the front section will be for men or woman?
How about if you change the plane to a bus?
Doubt that sa cares about civil rights
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Achas Veachas on January 02, 2015, 01:07:19 PM
That's because there are not separate sections. If SA goes ahead with this do you think the front section will be for men or woman?
How about if you change the plane to a bus?
I thought we were talking about LY :-\
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 01:09:25 PM
I thought we were talking about LY :-\
What's LY?
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dr Moose on January 02, 2015, 01:10:26 PM
What's LY?
ElAl
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 01:15:08 PM
I thought we were talking about LY :-\
Ok I follow now but still disagree.  :)

Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 02, 2015, 01:48:50 PM
That's why I always tell my fellow  jewish brothers fly in j!
(Jk)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2015, 01:53:13 PM
Or fly in bulkhead/exit rows where there's usually a greater separation between seats.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: lunatic on January 02, 2015, 02:32:04 PM
http://thewinglet.boardingarea.com/ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-keep-delaying-flights-tofrom-tlv/
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 02:37:35 PM
http://thewinglet.boardingarea.com/ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-keep-delaying-flights-tofrom-tlv/
"My opinion: These gentlemen should know better, they should know that flying is not limited to one gender, religion, or country of origin. If you only want to sit by male passengers then either a) book an entire row or b) pay a few extra bucks and reserve a better seat with your fellow male colleagues. Don’t expect that the rest of the passengers have to accommodate you, they paid just as much as you did (relatively). Delta should have ejected the men for disrupting a flight."

Seems pretty simple to me.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2015, 02:39:36 PM
http://thegate.boardingarea.com/public-expressions-of-religious-freedom-should-there-be-limits/

Oh man, this was so funny last night :D
Paging AJK.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 02, 2015, 02:45:42 PM
Paging AJK.
With pics.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Lou Bob on January 02, 2015, 02:48:53 PM
I thought whatever is said at the Do, stays at the Do  :)
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: thaber on January 02, 2015, 02:55:45 PM
My sister just flew ewr-lax, and the stewardess asked her to speak to the several Israeli gentlemen who wouldn't sit down next to women. On a domestic UA flight. This is beyond ridiculous, and she was mortified on behalf of the rest of us.
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: thaber on January 02, 2015, 02:59:21 PM
http://thegate.boardingarea.com/public-expressions-of-religious-freedom-should-there-be-limits/

Oh man, this was so funny last night :D
Paging AJK.

I could totally see this happening in TLV

Quote
Slaughtering a chicken a certain way may be a widely accepted religious ritual in some places — but would it be appropriate in an airport lounge
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on January 03, 2015, 01:16:50 PM
Had LY been first with this, the cries of "apartheid" would have been deafening
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on January 05, 2015, 09:55:38 AM

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/ (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/)
Soudi Arabia’s national carrier has reportedly decided to impose separate seating on its male and female passengers....
http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-airline-to-separate-men-and-women/
as reported upthread
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: noturbizniss on January 05, 2015, 02:58:59 PM
as reported upthread
Wow
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Redbull3 on January 05, 2015, 03:13:11 PM
http://thegate.boardingarea.com/public-expressions-of-religious-freedom-should-there-be-limits/

Oh man, this was so funny last night :D
Paging AJK.

Quote
I may suggest the bulkhead/exit row if I’m brave enough to start a firestorm on the issue on my site…

Please please please #popcorn
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Dan on January 05, 2015, 03:14:58 PM
Please please please #popcorn
Nah, the funny thing was what everyone else heard when I said "The gate blogger"
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Redbull3 on January 05, 2015, 03:16:23 PM
Nah, the funny thing was what everyone else heard when I said "The gate blogger"

Why!? Hits views links posts drama activity = money for Dan. FB has proven to be an excellent firestorm forum too if you wanna jump in with a post...
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: Emkay on January 08, 2015, 01:27:07 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/ (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/01/02/saudia-introduce-gender-segregation-flights/)
http://www.flyertalk.com/story/saudia-issues-statement-denying-it-has-plans-to-segregate-planes-by-sex.html
Title: Re: Not sitting next to women on plane causes chillul hashem AGAIN. Drudge Report
Post by: MeirS on January 12, 2015, 12:05:17 PM
http://thegate.boardingarea.com/public-expressions-of-religious-freedom-should-there-be-limits/

Oh man, this was so funny last night :D
Paging AJK.
The comments were an interesting read.