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DansDeals Forum => Trip Reports => Topic started by: kivabb on January 20, 2015, 03:18:27 PM

Title: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: kivabb on January 20, 2015, 03:18:27 PM
I know many trip reports here are about how someone flew some premium class flight for the minimum amount of points or some glitch where they basically got paid for going, but I wanted to share my experience as it might interest those who have very tight times of when they can travel, can’t find availability or want to know how crazy it is to go with a baby. I also wanted to share my perspective as someone who won’t go to a beach, pool, poolside or snorkeling during normal times when other people are around.

I just went on a 5 day trip with my wife and 5 month old to Kauai/Maui. This was our second trip to Kauai with a baby. Our first trip was during a major storm with the only part of the island seemingly dry was the Grand Hyatt and Polihole Beach. Even Waimeu Canyon was under clouds for 4 days. Even with all that rain, that first trip was awesome and just hanging around the GHK was amazing. But with all that we heard about the island we decided to adventure out 3 years later and try it again.

Flights: We flew Hawaiin Air JFK-HNL-LIH, LIH-OGG, OGG-HNL-JFK. Biz seats were not available with points, so we took economy (20K each way) and paid $100 each for Extra Comfort seats. No, it was nothing compared to when we flew United or AA from JFK to LAX last time in biz, but the travel time was short, the customer service was great, and the Extra Comfort Seats gave us loads of legroom and allowed us to put baby to sleep on floor with room to spare. It’s together with first class section so more quiet as well.

Lounges: We checked out the IASS lounge in HNL with Priority Pass. No bathroom, No AC, but free drinks and wi-fi so okay if you come in with low expectations.

Hotels: We stayed 2 nights in the Grand Hyatt Kauai (44K Chase points) and 2 nights in the Andaz in Maui (2 free nights for opening Chase Hyatt card). They upgraded us in GHK to room with beautiful views of pools and ocean. No upgrade in Andaz so we had “Garden” view.

Food: For breakfast – My wife made these healthy muffins and we brought several Nugo Bars to start the day. We kept the muffins frozen in the cooler until the day we needed. For lunch – We brought both cold cuts in individual vacuum sealed packages as well as prepared tuna fish in ½ pound containers and alternated having that with crackers, Matza, or wraps. For Dinner - We brought a 4 quart slow cooker along with those Meal Mart meals they sell in Costco which we froze and kept in Polar Cooler which keeps frozen for 24 hours. http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Bear-Coolers-Pack-Cooler/dp/B001PCNXFG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1421772458&sr=8-4&keywords=polar+cooler+bag. In the morning we would pop 2 meals of brisket or stuffed cabbage or whatever and keep it on low and when we would come back to room at night we had hot food waiting. I bought the one that had clamps http://www.amazon.com/Crock-Pot-SCCPVL400-R-4-Quart-Cooker-Stainless/dp/B008S6ZJ6S/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1421772847&sr=1-1&keywords=crock+pot+4+quart++Cook+and+Carry and I put in a oven cooking bag which I knotted inside to not only simplify clean up, but to make a second seal. On the days when we couldn’t do the crock pot because of flights, my wife had made dark breaded schnitzel and froze it in cooler. We took out 4-5 hours before we needed and worked out great.  And of course, lots of snacks  :) .

Baby: This is BE”H #8 for us and all kids are different, but in our experience before 12 months it’s worth the gamble and 13-24 months it’s not. At least not for an escapade with just my wife and I. When we travel with the family it’s anyways a circus so doesn’t make a difference then. We brought one of these Ergo Baby carriers like 10 years ago: http://www.amazon.com/Ergobaby-Original-Baby-Carrier-Black/dp/B001JZU8O8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421774582&sr=8-1&keywords=ergo+baby I’m sure we could have done cheaper but we have put many miles on it and worked well for us but nothing to compare it to since it’s really the only one we ever had.

Weather: When you come for 1-2 weeks you can afford rainy days, but when you do a short marathon, the rainy days can ruin your trip. Well B”H unlike our first trip, the weather was perfect every day.

Activities:
•   Day 1 – Arrived in LIH in the early evening. By the time we got to the hotel, we decided to try to go to sleep by 9PM and get early start on next day.
•   Day 2 – Woke up like 7AM, took a walk around pool area, grounds of GHK before if got busy. Left to Waimeu Canyon at around 8 AM. Did the lookouts recommended in Kauai revealed book. Hiked Awa'awapuhi Trail (6.5 miled RT) and had lunch overlooking the valley. Shortly after did the Canyon Trail (3.6 miles RT) which book recommends as well. Nu'alolo Cliffs Trail was closed with pretty mean signs on it, so with a 4 month old in tow and 7 kids at home, I didn’t think risking my life was worth it. Changing diapers and nursing every few hours definitely takes more time, but baby was able to fall asleep with me holding him in carrier. We could barely walk the next day after doing over 10 miles, but the views were unforgettable. We were going to do sunset in Polihole beach but since we spent time there on our last trip and we were tired (and hungry), we headed back to catch sunset by GHK. Sleeping by 9 PM
•   Day 3 – We were going to get up early and go up North to Hanalei, and Ke’e Beach (our last trip we visited St Regis in Priceville) but we were so sore and my wife was having such a great time at GHK that we spent the morning chilling out there. We had 2 PM helicopter ride with Blue Hawaiin which was awesome. When we finished we went straight to airport where we caught 4:30 flight LIH-OGG flight. Arrived at Andaz, checked in, unpacked and went to sleep by 9 PM.
•   Day 4 – We were woken up at 5:45 AM by a fire alarm sounding in our room with announcement that they were evacuating hotel. For most people it would have been a nightmare but it got me free parking at checkout and more importantly it allowed us to start our Road to Hana trip at 7:15 AM. No it wasn’t me who pulled it and it was cancelled 10 minutes later so we didn’t even have to leave the floor. Road to Hana was amazing. The Revealed book gave me places to stop where everyone else seemed to keep driving. Yes, we drove all the way around and it was a beautiful day. We didn’t get back to hotel until 7 PM. We had dinner waiting, explored the hotel a bit, packed and again went to bed by 9 PM.
•   Day 5 – I had told my wife we had to leave hotel by 10:15 AM. We were up early and had a nice time walking the grounds, watching the Ocean, getting some morning sun. We checked out and I surprised my wife with a massage at this place which had great ratings and was 3 minutes from hotel : http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60632-d1957591-Reviews-Wailea_Massage_and_Body_Care-Kihei_Maui_Hawaii.html It was less than half the price of hotel and my wife said actual massage was on par to what she had in GHK last time around. Then off to catch a 2 PM flight OGG-HNL-JFK.

Tznius Issues: From the sounds of it, I’m one of the few people who have gone to Hawaii and won’t go snorkeling period, hang out in the beach or in the ocean or go swimming in pools during normal hours. Honestly I would have loved to go snorkeling, but couldn’t figure out how to do any of the above for religious reasons. So my choices were either not to go, or do what I can do and make best of it. I’m not trying to encourage those who feel it’s inappropriate to go. My intention is help those who have the travel bug and feel they will have to compromise since they think it's not possible to do the Kosher way. I’ll share my experience and hopefully it will be helpful for others who share or have similar views to mine.
•   Kauai
1.   Hotel - Our experience at GHK was that if you hit the grounds early (out before 9:30-10 AM) or come back 30 minutes before sunset, then you can enjoy the beauty of the property. That doesn’t mean you won’t see some people inappropriately dressed and you’ll need to look away, but it’s in no way worse than Miami where everyone is flocking to. If anything, it’s much better. There’s many nooks and crannies which gives you many places to explore and less probability of running into trouble. We probably could have gone swimming early morning or at night if my wife would have brought appropriate clothing but we didn’t.
2.   Activities – Lots of safe stuff to do. Waimeu Canyon for sure all day activity. Polihole you can find empty beach and beautiful sunset. Helicopter ride. Drive up North to Hanilei, waterfalls and more. Check out St Regis. Beautiful hike right next to GHK along coast and golf course on other side.
3.   My Bottom line – With some brains and preparation, Kauai can definitely be done without compromising your standards and it’s so beautiful. Anyways they know you’re Jewish, so no reason feeling uncomfortable sticking out and wearing Jewish clothing.
•   Maui
1.   Hotel – The Andaz at least when I was there was a whole different story. The staff wears real low cut uniforms and the guests were young, cool and trying to play and dress the part. Even at night we had trouble navigating the grounds without pumping into Speedos or the like. The early morning was much better at pool area, but beach even at 8:30 AM had lots of joggers dressing in bathing suit or low exercise tops. I had a guest ask me at the hotel if there was a religious convention going on there because he had seen so many religious Jews. Not sure if best place for religious convention.
2.   Activities – We only we did Road to Hana. At 1 waterfall there were some ladies in bathing suits so we took detour. At Red Sand and Black Sand beach we had to turn around since there were too many bathing suits. Even 7 Sacred Pools which is one of the biggest attractions on RTH we had to leave since we were there at 3 PM and place was packed with bathing suits. But most of it was not an issue and many places to chill by the coast and watch the water or waterfalls and have them all to yourself.
3.   I would have loved to do Sunrise on Crater, but feared altitude change with baby. Could be there’s many other safe activities but just sharing what I did.
4.   My Bottom Line – The hotel was beautiful and RTH was awesome, but having done that already, I probably wouldn’t return to Maui. It could be the other Hyatt attracts a whole different crowd which would have been better and I should have known better what would be at beach sites and should have just avoided those sites. Unlike in Kauai, I felt I was having to look away more times than not. Maybe it was just my experience or mazel when I was there, but again just sharing.

I hope to hit The Big Island one day.

I hope none of this offended anyone and I apologize if it did as it wasn't my intention at all. I’m just sharing my experiences as someone who loves nature and Gods creations but doesn’t want to compromise my standards in doing so. If anyone is still reading this, I’m also full of gratitude to Dan and these forums for the great info in so many areas and hope that at some level I’m giving something back. Please PM me if I can help anyone.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: EnEl on January 20, 2015, 03:43:18 PM

I hope none of this offended anyone and I apologize if it did as it wasn't my intention at all.


If only there were more people like you. Personally, I don't share the same views, but I can appreciate the time and effort it took to put this together.  And you did all this with a baby?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 12HRS on January 20, 2015, 03:50:21 PM
And you did all this with a baby?

I had the same reaction you did at first. But then I realized he said the baby was #8. So really it was nice to not have the other 7 kids.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 20, 2015, 03:51:41 PM
Nice TR. Thanks for sharing that perspective - props to you. I personally have wondered what the options were for privacy near pools/beaches.

I don't think it's so practical to go to Hawaii and expect to not swim or sit on a beach. I'm sure the hikes are beautiful, but I wouldn't travel there and miss out on what Hawaii is famous for. I'm sure you had a nice time, but it does seem like you were constantly turning your face away or detouring/missing activities. Doesn't seem like Hawaii can be 'so' enjoyable if trying to avoid the tznius issues to the extent that you did. Meaning, reading your TR seemed like there were more issues than good times, but that's probably because of the angle that you were writing this TR from.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: DMYD on January 20, 2015, 03:57:40 PM
Nice TR. Thanks for sharing that perspective - props to you. I personally have wondered what the options were for privacy near pools/beaches.

I don't think it's so practical to go to Hawaii and expect to not swim or sit on a beach. I'm sure the hikes are beautiful, but I wouldn't travel there and miss out on what Hawaii is famous for. I'm sure you had a nice time, but it does seem like you were constantly turning your face away or detouring/missing activities. Doesn't seem like Hawaii can be 'so' enjoyable if trying to avoid the tznius issues to the extent that you did. Meaning, reading your TR seemed like there were more issues than good times, but that's probably because of the angle that you were writing this TR from.
+1 there is no reason to go if your going to act like that, no one is forcing someone to go to Hawaii.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 20, 2015, 03:59:50 PM
+1 there is no reason to go if your going to act like that, no one is forcing someone to go to Hawaii.
And no one is forcing you to make decisions for him as to whether or not he should go to Hawaii.

For me, I don't think it's so practical to go to Hawaii and expect to not swim or sit on a beach.
FTFY
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: EnEl on January 20, 2015, 04:00:57 PM
+1 there is no reason to go if your going to act like that, no one is forcing someone to go to Hawaii.

I dunno, it seems like it had worked out for him, so who really minds where he chose to go? Could be because of the weather/views/hiking and airfare/miles worked out that way.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: dealfinder85 on January 20, 2015, 04:01:36 PM
+1 there is no reason to go if your going to act like that, no one is forcing someone to go to Hawaii.
the guy went, enjoyed, just shared his thoughts about avoiding histaclus issues
he wasnt complaining about going to hawaii
give the guy a break
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: DMYD on January 20, 2015, 04:06:35 PM
I am happy for him that he enjoyed, because he knew what to expect, but in general when you go to Hawaii.......... 
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 20, 2015, 04:06:55 PM
I am happy for him that he enjoyed, because he knew what to expect, but in general when you go to Hawaii.......... 
....?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: DMYD on January 20, 2015, 04:07:59 PM
....?
The Tznius Issues that he was speaking about.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: dealfinder85 on January 20, 2015, 04:08:30 PM
The Tznius Issues that he was speaking about.
he went in knowing what he was getting himself into and he isnt complaining
so why are people upset with him
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 20, 2015, 04:08:50 PM
The Tznius Issues that he was speaking about.
What about them? and why does that mean
+1 there is no reason to go if your going to act like that, no one is forcing someone to go to Hawaii.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Joe4007 on January 20, 2015, 05:03:37 PM
Thanks for the TR. Not the way I would've structured a Hawaii trip (island hopping like that), but to each his own I suppose.

Tznius Issues:Honestly I would have loved to go snorkeling, but couldn’t figure out how to do any of the above for religious reasons. So my choices were either not to go, or do what I can do and make best of it.
On Kauai, we went snorkeling at salt pond beach which is right next to Hanapepe. Being mostly a local town without many tourists meant that we practically had the entire beach to ourselves during the day. Late afternoon started seeing some locals hitting the beach after work. I can't compare it to any other beach as this was our first time snorkeling, but to us it was amazing!
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: lunatic on January 20, 2015, 05:10:11 PM
Why is  everyone critical of the OP? He did what he thought correct and reported back to help others. Let's not make this a popcorn thread
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 20, 2015, 05:11:29 PM
Why is  everyone critical of the OP? He did what he thought correct and reported back to help others. Let's not make this a popcorn thread
Honestly, I think this is quite calm. And everyone is calling out Dav more than the OP.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: HolyNyc on January 20, 2015, 07:23:34 PM
edited
If only there were more people like you.  I appreciate the time and effort it took to put this together.  And wow you did all this with a baby?
+1
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: AJK on January 20, 2015, 07:56:46 PM
If only there were more people like you. Personally, I don't share the same views, but I can appreciate the time and effort it took to put this together.  And you did all this with a baby?

+1

Wow. Not that it means much, but throughout your TR, I could not help but be impressed with your self-control and high standards.

Truly remarkable. Hashem should bless you!
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 3yummyboys on January 20, 2015, 08:24:52 PM
OP thanks so much for the post! Enjoyed the TR and I appreciated the comments on tznius from someone who has done it. Not sure what all of the fuss is about. you just told us about your experience.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: smart brit on January 20, 2015, 08:44:34 PM
+1

Wow. Not that it means much, but throughout your TR, I could not help but be impressed with your self-control and high standards.

Truly remarkable. Hashem should bless you!
well said!
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: VacationLover on January 20, 2015, 09:08:56 PM
Nice TR. I really admire you! Kudos!!
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: solls108 on January 20, 2015, 09:28:19 PM
To each their own. Sounds like you had a good time.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: sam28 on January 21, 2015, 12:03:06 AM
thanks for taking u time . its very good and nice trip R
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: ilherman on January 21, 2015, 01:24:46 AM
OP, thanks for taking your time and thanks for addressing the Tznius issue.

Now I can finally start planing a trip to Kauai  :)

It does not require a lot to keep the standards that the OP kept. Of course it would of been much easier to be able to hang out at the pool/beache whenever I want. But it would be cool as well not to have to shlep food and just go down to the local restaurant. That being said, of course Kashret is probably more important than Tznius issues but swimming together with ladies wearing bathing suites is Assur. Im not looking to offend anyone and if someone thinks that when he is taking a vacation he is allowed to enjoy him self I do respect his opinion... But  I just wanna explain the OP and others who wanna go to Hawaii and still stay Kosher that they have a strong reason to keep their standards.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Dan on January 21, 2015, 01:29:22 AM
Of course you can have a great time without dipping your toe in the sand or water, but there's no excuse for not finding a private beach on any Hawaiian island at any time of the day.

Just my .02
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: ilherman on January 21, 2015, 01:33:27 AM
Of course you can have a great time without dipping your toe in the sand or water, but there's no excuse for not finding a private beach on any Hawaiian island at any time of the day.

Just my .02
Exactly. That's what I'm trying to figure out and thanks Joe4007 for the suggestion. And IIRC Hawaii is the place where you can find completely private beaches.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Dan on January 21, 2015, 01:39:51 AM
Exactly. That's what I'm trying to figure out and thanks Joe4007 for the suggestion. And IIRC Hawaii is the place where you can find completely private beaches.
I'm sure you can find private beaches in the Caribbean as well.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: ilherman on January 21, 2015, 01:47:01 AM
I remember in LAX on the way from LA to Tierra Sur we had such a hard time to find a private beach. It really takes away a lot of the vacation if you're not prepared before hand about all the Kashret/Tznus issues. Lesson learned.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Dan on January 21, 2015, 01:48:40 AM
You thought in a city of 4MM++ that you would just happen upon a private beach?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: ilherman on January 21, 2015, 08:05:12 AM
You thought in a city of 4MM++ that you would just happen upon a private beach?
Exactly. I thought that somewhere throughout the shore I'll find something. Call me a n00b  ;)
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: AharonInIsrael on January 21, 2015, 08:49:22 AM
+1

Wow. Not that it means much, but throughout your TR, I could not help but be impressed with your self-control and high standards.

Truly remarkable. Hashem should bless you!
+2
Thanks for being informative but also sensitive to others!
It's clear you put a lot of time into phrasing things sensitively
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: efflpetzel on January 21, 2015, 09:19:10 AM

Honestly, I think this is quite calm. And everyone is calling out Dav more than the OP.
exactly, it seems like people are looking to jump on the first person that doesn't agree with the OP
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 09:35:00 AM
exactly, it seems like people are looking to jump on the first person that doesn't agree with the OP
Nope. People are looking to jump on the first person to criticize and judge the OP. No one is saying that everyone has to do what he does. But no one should say he can't or shouldn't do what he does
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: AJK on January 21, 2015, 09:37:17 AM
Lotta that judging going on 'round here.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: DMYD on January 21, 2015, 09:51:24 AM
+1 there is no reason to go if your going to act like that, no one is forcing someone to go to Hawaii.
My gosh I know it looks like I meant the OP but I was speaking in general, Yes it was very well written, but people who plan on removing  there glasses or will look down on the floor every time there is a person that is not dressed modest enough for him shouldn't go to those places in the first place! didn't mean anyone personal.   
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: kivabb on January 21, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Of course you can have a great time without dipping your toe in the sand or water, but there's no excuse for not finding a private beach on any Hawaiian island at any time of the day.

Just my .02

We put our feet in the water. But it was at the GHK before 10 AM or sunset time. We easily could have done the pools there same time but my wife didn't bring her aqua gear. Polihole we had gone for sunset in the past but from the looks of it could have been done mid-day as well. Road to Hana had many places to dip our feet. Not too much sand, but beautiful scenery. We spent a long time watching the waves smashing the lava rock in what seemed endless beaches to ourselves even during mid-day.

Just want to stress that we had an awesome time and I didn't spend most of the time with my head in the sand (although a lot of time in the Andaz while outside). Just sharing my experience because with a little tweaking, homework and creativity.....it could have been even better.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Something Fishy on January 21, 2015, 10:11:39 AM
Very interesting trip report. Even tough you didn't see or do most of the things others do you still managed to have an amazing time. Kudos for that and standing up to that level.

If you think about it, what you basically did was take nice drives, see beautiful scenery, and go some great hikes. Most people looking to do that would go somewhere like Colorado or the Southwest. I would think that to schlep to Hawaii for that would be a waste, but if you were happy with that descision, who am I to judge 8)?

That being said, with enough research one could do all the typical Hawaiian activities such as swimming and snorkeling while still maintaining that level of tznius. As Dan mentioned, there are plenty of private beaches to be found throughout the islands; there are also many vacation rentals with private pools. Of course with a baby in tow some of those may not be practical, but there are still options.

ETA: Just saw your last post. Looks like we're on the same page ;D.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: kivabb on January 21, 2015, 10:43:55 AM

If you think about it, what you basically did was take nice drives, see beautiful scenery, and go some great hikes. Most people looking to do that would go somewhere like Colorado or the Southwest. I would think that to schlep to Hawaii for that would be a waste, but if you were happy with that descision, who am I to judge 8)?


We did Colorado, Grand Canyon, Hiked down Supai, Canadian Rockies, Zion, Bryce, Yosemite, Yellowstone, Glacier, Tetons. But I do agree if it's someones 1 time shot who loves nature then he could easily be satisfied with any of the above.

For me, sitting on a plane with no cell phone reception and being able to have a conversation uninterrupted with my wife is also part of the getaway (remember that I have 8 and the house gets quiet at 11:30 PM when I'm practically sleeping) . Anyways we need to fly 5-6 ours to west coast, so 5 more hours to see something spectacular was worth it for us.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: chuchem on January 21, 2015, 01:24:56 PM
I really value you keeping to znius, that we all should. Halevai I will be on that level 1 day

But can I ask you: every time you walk to the pool area or other areas like waterfalls you are putting yourself in a place we're you are likely to see undressed women. So if you keep to haloches, what's your justification for this?

as you said yourself, you had to look a way a lot, but that means you saw something that made you look away

I know on today's streets you also see things, so one can't be totally "obgehiten" but for a guy that wants to keep to hilches znius, what's your heter to go to a "mokom sakone" of znius
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: HolyNyc on January 21, 2015, 01:26:36 PM
I really value you keeping to znius, that we all should. Halevai I will be on that level 1 day

But can I ask you: every time you walk to the pool area or other areas like waterfalls you are putting yourself in a place we're you are likely to see undressed women. So if you keep to haloches, what's your justification for this?

as you said yourself, you had to look a way a lot, but that means you saw something that made you look away

I know on today's streets you also see things, so one can't be totally "obgehiten" but for a guy that wants to keep to hilches znius, what's your heter to go to a "mokom sakone" of znius
the world is not black or white
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 01:33:19 PM
the world is not black or white
?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: HolyNyc on January 21, 2015, 01:37:55 PM
I really value you keeping to znius, that we all should. Halevai I will be on that level 1 day

But can I ask you: every time you walk to the pool area or other areas like waterfalls you are putting yourself in a place we're you are likely to see undressed women. So if you keep to haloches, what's your justification for this?

as you said yourself, you had to look a way a lot, but that means you saw something that made you look away

I know on today's streets you also see things, so one can't be totally "obgehiten" but for a guy that wants to keep to hilches znius, what's your heter to go to a "mokom sakone" of znius
the world is not black or white
?
'chuchem' seams to believe that if you cannot be perfect you should do whatever you want.
BTW IMO if you are at a lower level in "ruchnius" in a certain subject than someone else you should not be the one questioning him on that
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 21, 2015, 01:38:32 PM
I really value you keeping to znius, that we all should. Halevai I will be on that level 1 day

But can I ask you: every time you walk to the pool area or other areas like waterfalls you are putting yourself in a place we're you are likely to see undressed women. So if you keep to haloches, what's your justification for this?

as you said yourself, you had to look a way a lot, but that means you saw something that made you look away

I know on today's streets you also see things, so one can't be totally "obgehiten" but for a guy that wants to keep to hilches znius, what's your heter to go to a "mokom sakone" of znius
Perhaps looking (then turning away) is different than gazing.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 01:46:04 PM
'chuchem' seams to believe that if you cannot be perfect you should do whatever you want.
BTW IMO if you are at a lower level in "ruchnius" in a certain subject than someone else you should not be the one questioning him on that
Read it again
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: HolyNyc on January 21, 2015, 01:46:49 PM
Read it again
Read between the lines
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: kivabb on January 21, 2015, 01:50:31 PM
But can I ask you: every time you walk to the pool area or other areas like waterfalls you are putting yourself in a place we're you are likely to see undressed women. So if you keep to haloches, what's your justification for this?


The cheshbon was that at the early/later times there would be much less likelihood of seeing pritzos. As a backup, I also had my wife to quickly scout out the general pool/beach area and give me the heads up (or down) when I needed to.

But point well taken. In the perfect world it's far from ideal and I hope others can learn from my mistakes/experiences if nogea them
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 21, 2015, 02:27:08 PM
The cheshbon was that at the early/later times there would be much less likelihood of seeing pritzos. As a backup, I also had my wife to quickly scout out the general pool/beach area and give me the heads up (or down) when I needed to.

But point well taken. In the perfect world it's far from ideal and I hope others can learn from my mistakes/experiences if nogea them
Props on keeping a cool head during these discussions.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: DMYD on January 21, 2015, 02:30:46 PM
Props on keeping a cool head during these discussions.
After 8 kids I think he knows how to do that :D
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: chuchem on January 21, 2015, 02:45:17 PM
'chuchem' seams to believe that if you cannot be perfect you should do whatever you want.
BTW IMO if you are at a lower level in "ruchnius" in a certain subject than someone else you should not be the one questioning him on that

I never said that, dont make up what I believe.

But if he really wants to do things 100% according to Halacha and I admire him for this, I was asking how thats justified

If he sends his wife in advance then kol hakawod, but it doesnt take away the good chance that someone will come after you are there

What he did was for sure better then most of us that travel to these places, but if you want to keep to 100% shmiras enayim Hawaii Hotel pools isnt a good idea, even being careful
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: kivabb on January 21, 2015, 03:02:01 PM
but if you want to keep to 100% shmiras enayim Hawaii Hotel pools isnt a good idea, even being careful

100% shmiras einayim is only in the Beis Medrash. Taking a trip to Shop-Rite in warm months has more pritzus then what I saw in all Kauai. Needless to say walking in Miami Beach even if not on Collins. And yes, I try not to go to Shop-Rite. But agreed that anyplace that has swimming, combined with Hawaii atmosphere lends to a much greater potential of risk. My experience was that Kauai had less of that atmosphere than Maui and using my methods the 2 times I went posed less of a risk, but yes a risk nonetheless and YMMV.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: yos9694 on January 21, 2015, 03:07:18 PM
I think that many of the posts we see on this forum are misleading and can cause people reading to think that their authors are not careful in tsnius. A person could read all these trip reports and think that since everyone else is going to these places and spending all that time on beaches, snorkeling boats with other couples, in waterfalls etc, it isn't a big deal to do so himself. Halevai more people would sprinkle their trip reports with caveats as the OP did here so that people don't get the wrong impression.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Dr Moose on January 21, 2015, 03:11:41 PM
I never said that, dont make up what I believe.
when you wrote this:
But can I ask you: every time you walk to the pool area or other areas like waterfalls you are putting yourself in a place we're you are likely to see undressed women. So if you keep to haloches, what's your justification for this?
he assumed (as did I) only if you hold of the halachos do you need justification to walk in places that undressed women will be, otherwise you can walk wherever you want
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Buruch on January 21, 2015, 04:38:59 PM
Could be because I live in L.A., but to me, the least interesting part of (Kauai) Hawaii is the beach. @Yehuda (and others) - it´s not worth it to go see the incredible lushness and greenery of northern Kauai? Waimea Canyon; Napali coast; Helicopter ride over the the island interior - including the awe-inspiring descent into the crater of Mt. Waialeale; or any of the sensational hikes with the jaw-dropping views? I´m sure the other islands have their convincing attractions as well, but I haven´t been to them yet to say based on experience (Maui is in a couple weeks BE´´H!).

Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 21, 2015, 05:00:49 PM
Could be because I live in L.A., but to me, the least interesting part of (Kauai) Hawaii is the beach. @Yehuda (and others) - it´s not worth it to go see the incredible lushness and greenery of northern Kauai? Waimea Canyon; Napali coast; Helicopter ride over the the island interior - including the awe-inspiring descent into the crater of Mt. Waialeale; or any of the sensational hikes with the jaw-dropping views? I´m sure the other islands have their convincing attractions as well, but I haven´t been to them yet to say based on experience (Maui is in a couple weeks BE´´H!).
I'm sure those activities are incredible, but Hawaii is famous for its beaches and water. I'm sure there's great horseback riding and boating in Switzerland, but it's famous for its mountains.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Buruch on January 21, 2015, 05:33:05 PM
I'm sure those activities are incredible, but Hawaii is famous for its beaches and water. I'm sure there's great horseback riding and boating in Switzerland, but it's famous for its mountains.

I did not give examples of things that exist elsewhere.
My point was exactly that. Although it may be famous for beaches, it has sufficient beauty to make it famous independent of the beaches.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 05:42:24 PM
I'm sure those activities are incredible, but Hawaii is famous for its beaches and water. I'm sure there's great horseback riding and boating in Switzerland, but it's famous for its mountains.
I really don't see the logic. So let's say I love horseback riding and boating and I heard that they have great horseback riding in Switzerland and I really want to go do it. I'd love to do the mountains also, but I have a medical condition which doesn't allow me to go to high altitudes. I shouldn't go to Switzerland because I can't do what Switzerland is famous for?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: casualchurner on January 21, 2015, 05:54:36 PM
Thanks for a great TR ! And for showing that Hawaii can (sort of/up for debate) be done while maintaining a high standard of shmiras einayim.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: SFS on January 21, 2015, 05:56:43 PM
Congratulations to you and your wife for making time to get away with the baby, and to such a beautiful place. I think your TR shows that a wonderful trip is what you make of it and not ticking off boxes of top tourist spots.

As a woman with a new baby I'm sure your wife appreciated the slower pace. And while you focused a great deal on the tznius issue for you, it was probably similar for your wife. When I was a new mom, the last thing I wanted to see were other women in a bikini or revealing clothing. So glad you all had a wonderful time and were able to create a beautiful trip given the challenges.

All the best and good health to your new baby.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 3yummyboys on January 21, 2015, 06:04:42 PM
I really don't see the logic. So let's say I love horseback riding and boating and I heard that they have great horseback riding in Switzerland and I really want to go do it. I'd love to do the mountains also, but I have a medical condition which doesn't allow me to go to high altitudes. I shouldn't go to Switzerland because I can't do what Switzerland is famous for?

+1
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Dan on January 21, 2015, 06:31:09 PM
I really don't see the logic. So let's say I love horseback riding and boating and I heard that they have great horseback riding in Switzerland and I really want to go do it. I'd love to do the mountains also, but I have a medical condition which doesn't allow me to go to high altitudes. I shouldn't go to Switzerland because I can't do what Switzerland is famous for?
Flawed parable.
Better one would be that there was a medication you can search for that would allow you to go to high altitudes but you didn't seek it out...

Either way, if the OP enjoyed without that there's no shame in that. Just saying it's possible to have it all if you want.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: alpicone on January 21, 2015, 08:24:32 PM
I didn't do a helicopter tour... Does that mean there was no point in my trip?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 08:33:56 PM
Did you see immodestly dressed women?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 21, 2015, 09:36:19 PM
I didn't do a helicopter tour... Does that mean there was no point in my trip?
And I didn't do Segways in Paris. We both might have been a truly awesome activity, but we didn't miss the reason you go to the place or what the place is famous for.

I'm not saying a trip to Switzerland is worthless if you don't go to the Alps or that Hawaii just for hiking is a waste, but how does one plan a trip to a place and not do the main attraction? You don't go to Orlando and go on the London Eye and go to that little water park. You go for Disney/Universal/Sea World.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 09:47:10 PM
And I didn't do Segways in Paris. We both might have been a truly awesome activity, but we didn't miss the reason you go to the place or what the place is famous for.

I'm not saying a trip to Switzerland is worthless if you don't go to the Alps or that Hawaii just for hiking is a waste, but how does one plan a trip to a place and not do the main attraction? You don't go to Orlando and go on the London Eye and go to that little water park. You go for Disney/Universal/Sea World.
Unless he feels that doing the "main attraction" compromises on values he holds more dear (like god, Torah and mitzvos) than your arbitrary value of doing the main attraction when you go visit a place.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 21, 2015, 09:57:27 PM
Unless he feels that doing the "main attraction" compromises on values he holds more dear (like god, Torah and mitzvos) than your arbitrary value of doing the main attraction when you go visit a place.
Then why go there?? I know he's been on other hikes and mountains but don't go to a place that's known for its beaches to see the greenery that it also happens to have. Whatever. Agree to disagree.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: shmebeble on January 21, 2015, 10:10:16 PM
Then why go there?? I know he's been on other hikes and mountains but don't go to a place that's known for its beaches to see the greenery that it also happens to have. Whatever. Agree to disagree.
BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TO DO!!!
He went for the things you wouldn't go for- but you make it seem like he did something stupid. Your argument is weak and frankly pointless.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Something Fishy on January 21, 2015, 10:23:02 PM
He went for the things you wouldn't go for- but you make it seem like he did something stupid.

Ding ding ding!

Everyone keeps forgetting the main point. The OP took an unusual trip and had an amazing time. Despite skipping what most of us would consider "must dos" he seems to have no regrets.

Discussing if such a trip is right for you is one thing. But to attack/bash/criticize the OP or his decisions is just wrong.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: casualchurner on January 21, 2015, 10:29:25 PM
Ding ding ding!

Everyone keeps forgetting the main point. The OP took an unusual trip and had an amazing time. Despite skipping what most of us would consider "must dos" he seems to have no regrets.

Discussing if such a trip is right for you is one thing. But to attack/bash/criticize the OP or his decisions is just wrong.
+1
Everyone CHILL!! OP enjoyed his trip, good for him, let it go.
It's amazing how such a neutral TR could generate such arguments!
Title: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: alpicone on January 21, 2015, 10:44:42 PM
Amazing how OP posts a decent trip report but includes an angle that some people might find useful and somehow it gets more attention than a SomethingFishy TR.

I would guess that for a good portion of ppl on DDF they go on any vacations without experiencing the local food because kosher is important to them.  Probably for the majority of the people who travel and don't keep kosher, that is crazy. How can you travel to all these unique places and not experience the local cuisine!

Yet no one get flak so saying, I packed a suitcase full of pomegranate meals for my trip to...
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 10:47:43 PM
And Paris is known for cuisine. How could you go to Paris and not have French cuisine? You definitely shouldn't go if your not gonna have the French cuisine. After all that's what Paris is known for
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Ergel on January 21, 2015, 10:51:26 PM
And Nevada is known for prostitutes. You definitely shouldn't go to las Vegas if you're not gonna frequent them.
And Amsterdam is known for that and drugs. You definitely shouldn't go to Amsterdam if you won't participate
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: shmebeble on January 21, 2015, 10:53:42 PM
And Nevada is known for prostitutes. You definitely shouldn't go to las Vegas if you're not gonna frequent them.
And Amsterdam is known for that and drugs. You definitely shouldn't go to Amsterdam if you won't participate
I didnt want to write that. But a certain member of the forum went to Europe on a honeymoon and he didnt experience a lot of the top attractions in those places.
Now let's all chill and thank you OP!
You can get a private charter to scuba and snorkel if you really wanted to.- not to undermine the trip of anything!
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: SOS on January 21, 2015, 10:56:24 PM
I didnt want to write that. But a certain member of the forum went to Europe on a honeymoon and he didnt experience a lot of the top attractions in those places.
Now let's all chill and thank you OP!
You can get a private charter to scuba and snorkel if you really wanted to.- not to undermine the trip of anything!

We don't knew if he experienced all those things cause he never finished his trip report :) ;D

I think everyone needs to relax and stop twisting everyone's words in both directions

ETA: to clarify I don't think that forum member did any of those stuff
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 12HRS on January 21, 2015, 11:24:27 PM
Props on keeping a cool head during these discussions.

After 8 kids I think he knows how to do that :D

I thought it was the vacation from the 8 kids that kept him so calm.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: lunatic on January 21, 2015, 11:26:18 PM
Why is  everyone critical of the OP? He did what he thought correct and reported back to help others. Let's not make this a popcorn thread
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 12HRS on January 21, 2015, 11:27:12 PM
And I didn't do Segways in Paris. We both might have been a truly awesome activity, but we didn't miss the reason you go to the place or what the place is famous for.

I'm not saying a trip to Switzerland is worthless if you don't go to the Alps or that Hawaii just for hiking is a waste, but how does one plan a trip to a place and not do the main attraction? You don't go to Orlando and go on the London Eye and go to that little water park. You go for Disney/Universal/Sea World.

Weren't you the one who went to orlando and didn't do disney :P?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: doodle on January 21, 2015, 11:38:47 PM
Why is  everyone critical of the OP? He did what he thought correct and reported back to help others. Let's not make this a popcorn thread
  +100 the guy is a real man, lives with principles . full respect .   
p.s. check us out, down by the  Yam Hamelech
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: ganizzy on January 21, 2015, 11:54:01 PM
Thanks for the trip report. We went to Oahu on the way to Australia and limited it to 2 days for the same reason. Wasnt sure how much we would be able to do.
Ended up working out great.  We didn't spend time in Honolulu but found plenty empty beaches on the rest of the island
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: JoeCha on January 22, 2015, 12:45:06 AM
+1

Wow. Not that it means much, but throughout your TR, I could not help but be impressed with your self-control and high standards.

Truly remarkable. Hashem should bless you!
+1
Impressive report and impressive character.

Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: skyguy918 on January 22, 2015, 01:48:35 PM
Just want to chime in with my experience in Hawaii, specifically relative to tznius and the discussion on what to see/do when you visit a particular place.

I went to Maui for a few days (4 nights) last August. I'm not a huge beach person (or even pool/swimming in general) in the first place, and though my wife very much is, she's less so when it involves an Aqua Modesto, swimming cap, swimming in a skirt, etc. As a result, we didn't really make it a focus in our itinerary. We used the hotel (Fairmont Kea Lani) pools and beach several times, and since I'm pretty nearsighted, I just left my glasses in my room. Would I say I have absolutely no qualms about having done that (or doing it again in the future in Hawaii or elsewhere)? No, definitely not. But I did have some level of comfort that I was taking steps to at least reduce my exposure.

The activities we had planned were RTH, Haleakala sunrise and hiking, and possibly some snorkeling. We tried out snorkeling gear at the hotel, and neither of us were particularly comfortable with it, so we ended up forgoing the snorkeling and doing a hike in Iao Valley State Park. The last (half) day we went back to HNL and did Pearl Harbor. RTH ended up having the most tznius challenges of the bunch, but I pretty much followed the same protocol of taking off my glass when I thought it necessary.

As far going to Hawaii and not hanging out at the beach, snorkeling, etc., having made the trip I would say that if somehow all of the beaches and snorkeling spots were permanently closed and inaccessible, I still would want to go and visit the places I visited. Can you see the type of nature and hiking sights I did elsewhere? Probably something similar, but not the same. I'd argue that there are more places in the world with gorgeous beaches and snorkeling (even if they're not quite as good as Hawaii). It's all a matter of what you want out of your trip. Not having beaches and snorkeling on your activities list shouldn't preclude you from wanting to go to Hawaii.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: Something Fishy on January 22, 2015, 02:07:21 PM
since I'm pretty nearsighted, I just left my glasses in my room. W

I had a friend in Yeshiva who used to not wear his glasses on the street. He would bump into women all the time ;D.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: @Yehuda on January 22, 2015, 02:17:24 PM
I had a friend in Yeshiva who used to not wear his glasses on the street. He would bump into women all the time ;D.
ALOL
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: skyguy918 on January 22, 2015, 02:21:52 PM
I had a friend in Yeshiva who used to not wear his glasses on the street. He would bump into women all the time ;D.
The beach wasn't empty, but it certainly wasn't that crowded :D
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 3yummyboys on January 22, 2015, 02:23:09 PM
Isn't the main appeal of Hawaii for frum travelers that you can find empty beaches with a little effort?
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: skyguy918 on January 22, 2015, 02:28:34 PM
Isn't the main appeal of Hawaii for frum travelers that you can find empty beaches with a little effort?
No need to generalize. I'm sure there are many (maybe even most) for whom that's true, but it wasn't for me.

ETA: I wouldn't have had to go so far for that anyway. The last time I went to Miami I found a completely deserted beach and spent a few hours there.
Title: Re: 5 day Kauai/Maui Trip Report with 4 month old and maneuvering tznius issues
Post by: 3yummyboys on January 22, 2015, 02:34:34 PM
I stand corrected