DansDeals.com Forums
DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: ADG on July 22, 2015, 12:41:05 PM
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My friend asked me if he can spend ( and pay the bill ) on a cash back card, then refund the transaction and keep the CB/points/miles? (I heard this works on AA cards because the miles leave the bank to the AAdvantage account the moment you pay.T/F? )
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My friend asked me if he can spend ( and pay the bill ) on a cash back card, then refund the transaction and keep the CB/points/miles? (I heard this works on AA cards because the miles leave the bank to the AAdvantage account the moment you pay.T/F? )
I would advise against doing anything like this.
Additionally, while maybe a little different, i believe two brothers got jail time for doing something like this.
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I would advise against doing anything like this.
So you saying it works but they catch on...
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So you saying it works but they catch on...
I am not saying it will for sure work, i am saying it is not worth the risk.
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Additionally, while maybe a little different, i believe two brothers got jail time for doing something like this.
I read that story... it makes me kind of scared to do the nosdstram method
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That's not MS
Regular MS methods would work, he can decide if it's worth it.
Iirc there was/is a DDFr named HelpMe who is very pro cb, you can try finding him for more info
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There are plenty of ways to MS without having to get into questionable or outright wrong things to make some points/miles.
JMHO.
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I read that story... it makes me kind of scared to do the nosdstram method
Link?
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(I heard this works on AA cards because the miles leave the bank to the AAdvantage account the moment you pay.T/F? )
Good way to get banned from AAdvantage
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Link?
https://www.fbi.gov/seattle/press-releases/2012/brothers-who-defrauded-nordstrom-with-online-reward-scheme-plead-guilty-to-wire-fraud
Google "Chiu Brothers" for more info.
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I read that story... it makes me kind of scared to do the nosdstram method
Care to share more?
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Care to share more?
See my post right above yours.
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http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=12784.0
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My friend asked me if he can spend ( and pay the bill ) on a cash back card, then refund the transaction and keep the CB/points/miles? (I heard this works on AA cards because the miles leave the bank to the AAdvantage account the moment you pay.T/F? )
If you want to steal money from a bank, there are more discreet ways.
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I can get unlimited cash advances on any debit card. It doesn't matter the balance; usually you can get around 10K, maybe more if the time is right. All you do is go into the bank wearing a ski mask and hand a note to the teller saying "I want all the cash". 99 times out of 100, she'll just fill up a bag for you, no card swipe needed!
You do have to make sure to get out fast, though. Once word spreads, the cops try to shut you down.
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Simple yet brilliant.
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https://www.fbi.gov/seattle/press-releases/2012/brothers-who-defrauded-nordstrom-with-online-reward-scheme-plead-guilty-to-wire-fraud
Google "Chiu Brothers" for more info.
This is considered "wire fraud"? I don't quite understand how what they did was illegal (I'm not saying unethical... illegal).
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This is considered "wire fraud"? I don't quite understand how what they did was illegal (I'm not saying unethical... illegal).
Sure it was illegal ( do not even need to Google )-- they knowingly knew and had intent to defraud - how can theY order 23miliilon and not know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_wire_fraud
Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange,".......
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I read that story... it makes me kind of scared to do the nosdstram method
aside from the fact that its stealing and prohibited by jewish law?
o sorry, this isnt ethics nor halacha thread
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aside from the fact that its stealing and prohibited by jewish law?
o sorry, this isnt ethics nor halacha thread
buying and returning is in their policy. buying on order to return is forsure grey and maybe more . on what bases do you call it stealing?
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buying and returning is in their policy. buying on order to return is forsure grey and maybe more . on what bases do you call it stealing?
if you are buying with the intention to return, solely to get the cash back, are you not able to figure that out? who is paying you that cash back?
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Google "Chiu Brothers" for more info.
Please leave my friends out of this.
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if you are buying with the intention to return, solely to get the cash back, are you not able to figure that out? who is paying you that cash back?
When you MS at target or any form of MS someone is always paying the cash back! The Question is it is lawful under their terms and Jewish Law
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When you MS at target or any form of MS someone is always paying the cash back! The Question is it is lawful under their terms and Jewish Law
You get CB for a purchase. If you purchase with the intent to return and keep the CB, that is not what is intended.
They are not giving away money.
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You get CB for a purchase. If you purchase with the intent to return and keep the CB, that is not what is intended.
They are not giving away money.
What is MS if not giving away money. not to mention that it is also not intented
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When you MS at target or any form of MS someone is always paying the cash back! The Question is it is lawful under their terms and Jewish Law
in most methods at least that i know of, someone is gaining and therefore paying the cash back.
with target, they created that system that allows for abuse. they imposed limits. forget MS, what about if you really used that as some sort of bill paying system? they allow that.
but what you are discussing in another level
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What is MS if not giving away money. not to mention that it is also not intented
When you MS, you are buying something and cashing out in a different manner. It is much different than buying and returning.
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What is MS if not giving away money. not to mention that it is also not intented
lets take the gift card method that many use.
they buy a gift card from staples. staples pays the credit card fee and then chase pays you the UR points. but staples is getting the fee (at least thats how i assume it works) so its worth it to them
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When you MS, you are buying something and cashing out in a different manner. It is much different than buying and returning.
How so? buying with intent to cash it elsewhere is just as against chases intention even though it is not explicitly in the T&Cs
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How so? buying with intent to cash it elsewhere is just as against chases intention even though it is not explicitly in the T&Cs
What do they care what you do with your purchase? As far as they are concerned, you bought something (a GC) and the transaction is done. Anything you chose to do with it is your own thing.
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What do they care what you do with your purchase? As far as they are concerned, you bought something (a GC) and the transaction is done. Anything you chose to do with it is your own thing.
I guess you are right. but that doesn't mean buying with intent to return is explicitly against policy. I will give you an example . when you buy a few sizes you are buying (at least one of them) with intent to return. Is that also theft?
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No one is answering my question. Buying with intent to return is wire fraud? Why? Is it purely the dollar amount? This is PGGM on a larger scale. Are we all in trouble?
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Please leave my friends out of this.
Seriously what's your take on this?
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I guess you are right. but that doesn't mean buying with intent to return is explicitly against policy. I will give you an example . when you buy a few sizes you are buying (at least one of them) with intent to return. Is that also theft?
ok allow me to rephrase, in case you couldnt understand the difference
buying with complete intent to return 100% of your order is 1. probably assur, 2. theft if you do it in a way to earn cash back, 3. just wrong
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No one is answering my question. Buying with intent to return is wire fraud? Why? Is it purely the dollar amount? This is PGGM on a larger scale. Are we all in trouble?
I am answering your Question . That doesnt mean they cant or wont press charges of fraud if we are talking about large scale things.
Great point about PGGM . Marco care to take that one on?
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ok allow me to rephrase, in case you couldnt understand the difference
buying with complete intent to return 100% of your order is 1. probably assur, 2. theft if you do it in a way to earn cash back, 3. just wrong
So if one includes one thing one is " good"?
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So if one includes one thing one is " good"?
why are you trying to instigate here?
allow me to spell it out. buying even one item so steal cash back is stealing and assur.
you then asked, foolishly, what about ordering different sizes. to that, i needed to spell out that you intend to buy something and arent doing it to steal from the company. but even in that case, returning it intentionally in a way that still earns cash back is stealing
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why are you trying to instigate here?
allow me to spell it out. buying even one item so steal cash back is stealing and assur.
you then asked, foolishly, what about ordering different sizes. to that, i needed to spell out that you intend to buy something and arent doing it to steal from the company. but even in that case, returning it intentionally in a way that still earns cash back is stealing
My point is that buying with intent to return is not against companies policies. therefor not Assur. wrong or right is for ethical thread remember:)
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My point is that buying with intent to return is not against companies policies. therefor not Assur. wrong or right is for ethical thread remember:)
If you are doing it to earn CB, it is an issue. Case and point in the article ^^.
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My point is that buying with intent to return is not against companies policies. therefor not Assur. wrong or right is for ethical thread remember:)
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Please leave my friends out of this.
With friends like these... ;)
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What do they care what you do with your purchase? As far as they are concerned, you bought something (a GC) and the transaction is done. Anything you chose to do with it is your own thing.
Chase makes money on it. Staples makes money on it. The bank issuing the GC makes money on it and MS costs you money too. You may find that you get enough value for the money spent and therefore go through the trouble.
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How so? buying with intent to cash it elsewhere is just as against chases intention even though it is not explicitly in the T&Cs
Maintaining a credit card and making purchases with the sole intention of generating points is explicitly prohibited in the T&C's. However, it's not stealing. What's the difference to them if you buy a gc as a gift or to cash out? (Although it can be argued that chase is losing 2% on their 5% categories, which they are willing to sacrifice for the purpose of enticing you to have the card and make other purchases on it, which they are making 2% on. Using it solely for staples can therefore be argued to be the equivalent of making purchases and returning them.)
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Why is this whole idea any diff. then Pggm ?
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Why is this whole idea any diff. then Pggm ?
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Or than loading money onto serve/redcard and withdrawing to bank account?
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Why is this whole idea any diff. then Pggm ?
Pggm is also a grey area that's why there are still people that prefer gift cards
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Seriously what's your take on this?
If you are serious about the MS game then I hope you have a competent lawyer to answer these questions.
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Why is this whole idea any diff. then Pggm ?
Why you assuming that it is?
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Why you assuming that it is?
Because many people are vehemently opposed to this and no one seems to take issue with pggm
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Because many people are vehemently opposed to this and no one seems to take issue with pggm
Do you know anyone that has went to jail for doing pggm?
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Do you know anyone that has went to jail for doing pggm?
I'm talking about from an ethical standpoint
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I'm talking about from an ethical standpoint
Then try here: http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=12784.0
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If you are serious about the MS game then I hope you have a competent lawyer to answer these questions.
Lol well what would your lawyer say? Is PGGM legal or illegal? If legal, why is it different than this case.
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Mods can we move this to JS
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And it's Friday.... Cm is already popping his first batch