DansDeals.com Forums

DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: Super Speed on January 03, 2016, 01:23:47 AM

Title: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on January 03, 2016, 01:23:47 AM
Please continue the discussion from the Lakewood NJ Master Thread over here.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on January 03, 2016, 01:28:04 AM
Is this what Reb Ahron had in mind when he started a community outside Brooklyn to be a yeshiva enclave?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 01:28:23 AM
At the Yeshiva Orchos Chaim dinner it was announced they are giving a 10K raise for Rebbeim! With the calls for Raising Rebeim salaries OC took the initiative. Rabbi Ozeri who brought the plight to the public was the guest speaker the anouncment was made before his speech. This puts pressure on other mosdos to follow. Question is if they will also raise tuition.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on January 03, 2016, 01:42:26 AM
Many of the people buying the big houses started out in kollel and are now working, but they want to stay in the community they're raising their families in. Many Flatbush emigrees came to join their children. However, this all started from the yeshiva and kollel. Lakewood is no longer the sole post EY option, and multiple other yeshivos are growing. With the housing prices as prohibitive as they are for starting yeshiva couples, what's gonna bring the next generation?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 03, 2016, 02:30:23 AM
Many of the people buying the big houses started out in kollel and are now working, but they want to stay in the community they're raising their families in. Many Flatbush emigrees came to join their children. However, this all started from the yeshiva and kollel. Lakewood is no longer the sole post EY option, and multiple other yeshivos are growing. With the housing prices as prohibitive as they are for starting yeshiva couples, what's gonna bring the next generation?

If the prices get too high and prevent the next generation from moving in, then great,
that will help lower the house prices for current residents.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 03, 2016, 02:49:02 AM
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Emkay on January 03, 2016, 03:02:22 AM
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
Not just at risk. Way beyond that at this point
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on January 03, 2016, 07:10:35 AM
Not just at risk. Way beyond that at this point
Correct, that ship has long sailed.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Mordyk on January 03, 2016, 07:49:38 AM
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
I believe that is true and i can say i will hopefully soon be one of "those chasidim". But i also believe that every neighborhood evolves over time for one reason or another. See how many chasidim live in flatbush already. And see that boro park became way more chasidish than 20 years ago.  Thats just what happens. If for me there is an opportunity in lakewood i would go for it without thinking about the forefathers intentions   ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yhaller14 on January 03, 2016, 07:52:28 AM
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
+1000, and they're (satmar mostly) doing the same exact thing to Monsey
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 07:57:01 AM
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.
The effect of this was that for the most part, people only wore shtreimals at home, Bmg was the center of the community.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: TimT on January 03, 2016, 08:06:18 AM
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.
The effect of this was that for the most part, people only wore shtreimals at home, Bmg was the center of the community.
Just curious, why was there such a takana ?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 08:07:57 AM


At the Yeshiva Orchos Chaim dinner it was announced they are giving a 10K raise for Rebbeim! With the calls for Raising Rebeim salaries OC took the initiative. Rabbi Ozeri who brought the plight to the public was the guest speaker the anouncment was made before his speech. This puts pressure on other mosdos to follow. Question is if they will also raise tuition.

As I posted below, the large yeshivos should be flush with extra cash. This raise is proof. It's about time they shared some with the rebbeim.
I'm sure they will attempt to squeeze parents that could be squeezed though.

A 4yo playgroup can comfortably charge 225 per month, while primary school charges 450 tuition. Why?
I'm crunching the numbers, and its pretty clear that owning a school is an excellent buisness idea.
Think about a brand new school with just a primary class, how is his overhead douple that of the playgroup? ... As the school grows, tuition revenue increases, fixed costs are fixed.. Contribution margin grow$$$
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ChAiM'l on January 03, 2016, 08:23:28 AM
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.

Wow. What would happen if someone would wear one (regularly)?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 08:26:53 AM
Wow. What would happen if someone would wear one (regularly)?
Noone had the chutzpah.
Back then ppl generally shteld tzu.. Not anymore
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 08:35:25 AM
At the Yeshiva Orchos Chaim dinner it was announced they are giving a 10K raise for Rebbeim! With the calls for Raising Rebeim salaries OC took the initiative. Rabbi Ozeri who brought the plight to the public was the guest speaker the anouncment was made before his speech. This puts pressure on other mosdos to follow. Question is if they will also raise tuition.

Many of the people buying the big houses started out in kollel and are now working, but they want to stay in the community they're raising their families in. Many Flatbush emigrees came to join their children. However, this all started from the yeshiva and kollel. Lakewood is no longer the sole post EY option, and multiple other yeshivos are growing. With the housing prices as prohibitive as they are for starting yeshiva couples, what's gonna bring the next generation?
Yeshiva owned houses. Like darchai, only here it'll be saving so much more being there will be no 7k land tax.
Once they do that there will be no reason to raise salaries
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 08:40:34 AM

As I posted below, the large yeshivos should be flush with extra cash. This raise is proof. It's about time they shared some with the rebbeim.
I'm sure they will attempt to squeeze parents that could be squeezed though.
Lets just for pretend say that everyone is giving 5k to yeshiva a year. With a horrible 1:10 ratio staff to student (its probably a smaller ratio) that is only 50k to each teacher. Before the overhead. So lets say 40k pp. This is a very optimistic scenario.  Now where do you make money?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 08:42:05 AM
Lets just for pretend say that everyone is giving 5k to yeshiva a year. With a horrible 1:10 ratio staff to student (its probably a smaller ratio) that is only 50k to each teacher. Before the overhead. So lets say 40k pp. This is a very optimistic scenario.  Now where do you make money?
One rebbe for ~28 students and one pt English teacher.
That's ~140 k
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: good sam on January 03, 2016, 08:43:24 AM
If the prices get too high and prevent the next generation from moving in, then great,
that will help lower the house prices for current residents.
Reminds me of Yogi Berra- "nobody goes there, it's too crowded."
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 08:43:31 AM


One rebbe for ~28 students and one pt English teacher.
That's ~140 k

Ha. Other hanhala members and secretaries. And the English teaches need to get paid alot better than rabbis or they wont show up.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 09:04:20 AM

Ha. Other hanhala members and secretaries. And the English teaches need to get paid alot better than rabbis or they wont show up.
I'm not sure if you are realizing that if a school has only 4 parallel classes and only 20k per class goes to overhead. (Ie hanhala, support staff, utilities) we are at 720k.

We didn't even touch upon the many grants that they get.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on January 03, 2016, 09:24:34 AM

Ha. Other hanhala members and secretaries. And the English teaches need to get paid alot better than rabbis or they wont show up.
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Adam101 on January 03, 2016, 09:29:25 AM
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
+1000
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 09:31:24 AM
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
I stand corrected
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: semper fi on January 03, 2016, 09:31:26 AM
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
Proportionally for the anount of hours they work they do get paid more.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 09:36:06 AM
Proportionally for the anount of hours they work they do get paid more.
Just did the math. If you are including the work it involves out of school Maybe.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: sharkky on January 03, 2016, 09:45:11 AM
English teachers do not get paid more than Rabbaim. Fact.
+1000
Proportionally for the anount of hours they work they do get paid more.
how much do english teachers get paid?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Adam101 on January 03, 2016, 09:46:36 AM
how much do english teachers get paid?
Every school is different
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 09:48:47 AM
how much do english teachers get paid?
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 09:50:44 AM
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)
Hahaha ha.  You need to listen to Rabbi Ozeri's speech from the Agudah convention.  Keep in mind, he is talking about NY and I imagine salaries are lower here.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Adam101 on January 03, 2016, 09:51:38 AM
How much do rebbeim get paid?
I'm imagining 65k + free tuition for their kids (10-25k value)
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 09:59:05 AM
https://vimeo.com/147238413

He lays out Rebbeim's salaries in NY and it's a lot less.  His main point is that people won't want to become Rebbeim because of the low salaries and we are missing out on talent. In Lakewood that's not an issue as there are tons of people looking for a job as a Rebbe and the schools are able to choose from tons of applicants to fill roles. 

It's still a valid point though that at the current salaries we are short changing our Rebbeim by not providing enough for them.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 10:01:11 AM
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k
A) It's not a given that Rebbeim get free tuition.  B) Many in LKWD pay just $3,500 tuition.  Give the Rebbe 5  boys and then IF he gets free tuition it's 17.5.

I'm not so sure that Lakewood schools give free tuition at all though.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Adam101 on January 03, 2016, 10:02:22 AM
A) It's not a given that Rebbeim get free tuition.  B) Many in LKWD pay just $3,500 tuition.  Give the Rebbe 5  boys and then IF he gets free tuition it's 17.5.

I'm not so sure that Lakewood schools give free tuition at all though.
I wasn't the one that said they do. I was putting numbers on how much teachers get paid. That's all.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Ez on January 03, 2016, 10:04:33 AM
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
As far as I know, there may be an influx of chasidim, but Satmar is probably a tiny fraction of them.

They did indeed announce a new development for satmar people in the outskirts of Lakewood, but that won't be completed before at least 2 more years, and meanwhile they don't even have mosdos over there.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 10:16:25 AM
https ://vimeo.com/147238413

See 9:35.

Average starting entry level salary 30-40K. After 20 years between 50-60K. After 25 years  -"you're burnt out, go home".

And Lakewood is probably lower.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:18:02 AM
https://vimeo.com/147238413

He lays out Rebbeim's salaries in NY and it's a lot less.  His main point is that people won't want to become Rebbeim because of the low salaries and we are missing out on talent. In Lakewood that's not an issue as there are tons of people looking for a job as a Rebbe and the schools are able to choose from tons of applicants to fill roles. 

It's still a valid point though that at the current salaries we are short changing our Rebbeim by not providing enough for them.
Can't watch it , but if Lakewood rabbeim get only 45-55 then the schools can definitely afford to give them more.

You are correct though that in Lakewood the supply of Rabbeim is huge. There is no real market reason to rais them.

And btw, If giving the more cuts them off the ~ 60k value of gov programs and tax rebates it will be a big disservice.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 10:20:42 AM
Can't watch it , but if Lakewood rabbeim get only 45-55 then the schools can definitely afford to give them more.

You are correct though that in Lakewood the supply of Rabbeim is huge. There is no real market reason to rais them.

And btw, If giving the more cuts them off the ~ 60k value of gov programs and tax rebates it will be a big disservice.

See post above where I transcribed the amounts. I think you're missing out on tons of overhead and misc expenses. Running a building is expensive. A school with 4 parallel classes has a huge mortgage, tons of ancillary costs, etc 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 10:23:25 AM
Yeshiva owned houses. Like darchai, only here it'll be saving so much more being there will be no 7k land tax.
Once they do that there will be no reason to raise salaries
Wrong answer. Yeshivas have been doing that only they build dozens of houses off the tax roll. It's the latest way for yeshivas to save money off the backs of taxpayers. Once they get the golden 'campus' designation they can build as many houses as they want tax free. They can then rent it out to whoever they want and make a lot more than a regular landlord makes.
In the past year or two the township cracked down on this because it was being abused.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:28:24 AM


See post above where I transcribed the amounts. I think you're missing out on tons of overhead and misc expenses. Running a building is expensive. A school with 4 parallel classes has a huge mortgage, tons of ancillary costs, etc

The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.

Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.

There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 03, 2016, 10:31:47 AM
Can anyone please write a valid reason that Shtreimel's weren't allowed in BMG? Other than petty political and power reasons?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Ephcc90 on January 03, 2016, 10:33:49 AM


The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.

Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.

There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.
Is this all conjecture or do you have any first hand knowledge?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 10:39:38 AM

The dinners, building campaigns and big donors fund the mortgage.
Yes there are plenty of fixed costs. But they are more than covered. IMHO.
There is an assumption that all the schools are struggling to survive. The mosdos must keep this perception alive because it is a vital fundraising tool... It's not really true.
Have you seen even a single budget for a local yeshiva? Or is this all based on presumptions?
Conjecture like this without any real knowledge is dangerous.

See I 'know' that bakery owners make a killing. I posted this once before but appropriate here as well.

Did you know that every day Bagel nosh makes over $1,000,000? They sell an easy 1,052,632 bagels a day (when I was in there for 5 minutes there were at least 50 people there- you do the math). It costs them barely anything to make since water is just a penny per bagel, flour doesn't cost all that much (maybe 2 cents), and how much do you think the workers make already? (1 cent per bagel). Add in a penny for some electricity for the oven and say that all adds up to MAYBE 5 cents per bagel.
Can you imagine!! That's 1 million dollars profit per day!!!

And plus a little on the side from selling donuts too!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: george on January 03, 2016, 10:40:35 AM
Is this all conjecture or do you have any first hand knowledge?
+1
You sound like you're shooting off the hip.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:41:24 AM


Is this all conjecture or do you have any first hand knowledge?

Conjecture based on analysing the revenue from tuition, the variable cost of Rabbeim salaries, and then overhead like building maintenance, salary for a couple of secretaries, bookkeeping, utilities.

Gov grants more than cover lunch etc.

You tell me where I'm wrong? Schools arn't exactly closing down left and right... We also don't hear horror stories about millions in debt (like we used to hear about the cheder years ago )
So they're definitely managing. The question is if and how much is the surplus.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: sharkky on January 03, 2016, 10:41:49 AM
you're right but that's a huuuge gap
Let me narrow it down for you. 17k-25k
is that the range for the men teachers who teach abt 2 hours a day?   What do they get?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: george on January 03, 2016, 10:43:24 AM

Conjecture based on analysing the revenue from tuition, the variable cost of Rabbeim salaries, and then overhead like building maintenance, salary for a couple of secretaries, bookkeeping, utilities.

Gov grants more than cover lunch etc.

You tell me where I'm wrong? Schools arn't exactly closing down left and right... We also don't hear horror stories about millions in debt (like we used to hear about the cheder years ago )
So they're definitely managing. The question is if and how much is the surplus.
Ah, so conjecture it is. Thought so.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Adam101 on January 03, 2016, 10:43:37 AM
is that the range for the men teachers who teach abt 2 hours a day?   What do they get?
Yes. Before taxes.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:44:18 AM
Ah, so conjecture it is. Thought so.
Nice response. ::)

I never implied otherwise.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ChAiM'l on January 03, 2016, 10:48:41 AM
Noone had the chutzpah.
Back then ppl generally shteld tzu.. Not anymore

I'm still trying to wrap my beshtreimeled head around this. I have yet to come across a chassidishe shul that has a no-bent-down-hat takana, official or otherwise.

What was the logic behind it?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:49:13 AM
+1
You sound like you're shooting off the hip.
I'm not shooting anyone. I have no problem with the system as it is. I have no problem with giving Rabbeim a raise.
I DO have a problem with tuition increases.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: george on January 03, 2016, 10:49:34 AM
Nice response. ::)

I never implied otherwise.
Without real facts and firsthand knowledge, your conjecturing adds nothing to the discussion; in fact it is simply a distraction.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 03, 2016, 10:50:49 AM
Without real facts and firsthand knowledge, your conjecturing adds nothing to the discussion; in fact it is simply a distraction.

Unless yeshivas open up their books there's nothing else to work with...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: george on January 03, 2016, 10:55:40 AM
Unless yeshivas open up their books there's nothing else to work with...
If nobody on the forum is able to chime in with firsthand knowledge, the entire discussion is useless.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: sharkky on January 03, 2016, 10:58:04 AM
Without real facts and firsthand knowledge, your conjecturing adds nothing to the discussion; in fact it is simply a distraction.
he started this discussion, his conjecture adds nothing to his own conversation?   He might not be right, but hes making valid points. U on the other hand...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 11:04:36 AM
If nobody on the forum is able to chime in with firsthand knowledge, the entire discussion is useless.
We know for a fact how much tuition is.
We know for a fact that the collectable rate is very very high.
We know for a fact approximately how much Rabbeim are paid.

I'm sure someone here can tell us how much their energy bills are...

What facts are missing that you dissmis this?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: mookie on January 03, 2016, 11:05:02 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my beshtreimeled head around this. I have yet to come across a chassidishe shul that has a no-bent-down-hat takana, official or otherwise.

What was the logic behind it?

Don't hurt yourself while doing it. It's nonsense. I'm not sure if you've spent any significant time in bmg but I can assure you that no such takana ever existed. At most, since chassidim were few and far between at that time there was a feeling that it was a litvishe oasis and a streimel would be looked at sideways. It's impossible to understand until you've lived the lifestyle. The same thing applies now to colored shirts. There's no takana about it and occasionally, especially during the summer, you'll find a few YU guys in bais medrash with a blue shirt and lots of colored pencils. They're treated very nicely but it's amusing.. That's all. I personally know someone who's lived in yeshiva's shadow for decades, wears a streimel and went into bmg all the time. I feel the same way when I go to a Tish. The chassidim think I'm a little weird and I feel out of place but we live and let live.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 03, 2016, 11:05:06 AM
If nobody on the forum is able to chime in with firsthand knowledge, the entire discussion is useless.

It's not useless- one guy will say something dumb "Rebbis make 100k", the next guy will correct him, and so on until an educated guess would not be so hard to achieve.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 11:06:34 AM
We know for a fact how much tuition is.
We know for a fact that the collectable rate is very very high.
We know for a fact approximately how much Rabbeim are paid.

I'm sure someone here can tell us how much their energy bills are...

What facts are missing that you dissmis this?
Everything else!!! How much is a mortgage on a 5 million dollar building? Oh right, we already 'established' that it's 'covered' by the dinner and rich dudes.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 11:07:38 AM
  I personally know someone who's lived in yeshiva's shadow for decades, wears a streimel and went into bmg all the time.
C'mmon, that's a lie.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 11:08:34 AM
Everything else!!! How much is a mortgage on a 5 million dollar building? Oh right, we already 'established' that it's 'covered' by the dinner and rich dudes.
And building funds
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 11:09:06 AM
And building funds
Right. So we 'know' that that's a non issue.
Phew
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 11:12:08 AM
Don't hurt yourself while doing it. It's nonsense. I'm not sure if you've spent any significant time in bmg but I can assure you that no such takana ever existed. At most, since chassidim were few and far between at that time there was a feeling that it was a litvishe oasis and a streimel would be looked at sideways. It's impossible to understand until you've lived the lifestyle. The same thing applies now to colored shirts. There's no takana about it and occasionally, especially during the summer, you'll find a few YU guys in bais medrash with a blue shirt and lots of colored pencils. They're treated very nicely but it's amusing.. That's all. I personally know someone who's lived in yeshiva's shadow for decades, wears a streimel and went into bmg all the time. I feel the same way when I go to a Tish. The chassidim think I'm a little weird and I feel out of place but we live and let live.
You cannot assure anyone anything based on what you perceive as what should have been. You simply don't know.
I suggest you actually ask pp like R Berel Leifer, R O C Leiberman etc why they never entered Bmg with their shtreimals.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 03, 2016, 11:19:28 AM
Have you seen even a single budget for a local yeshiva?
There is a reason why they would never allow you to see their books. IMHO all mosdos/organizations that are funded with the public's money should be required to show their books so there should some accountability.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 11:22:30 AM


Don't hurt yourself while doing it. It's nonsense. I'm not sure if you've spent any significant time in bmg but I can assure you that no such takana ever existed. At most, since chassidim were few and far between at that time there was a feeling that it was a litvishe oasis and a streimel would be looked at sideways. It's impossible to understand until you've lived the lifestyle. The same thing applies now to colored shirts. There's no takana about it and occasionally, especially during the summer, you'll find a few YU guys in bais medrash with a blue shirt and lots of colored pencils. They're treated very nicely but it's amusing.. That's all. I personally know someone who's lived in yeshiva's shadow for decades, wears a streimel and went into bmg all the time. I feel the same way when I go to a Tish. The chassidim think I'm a little weird and I feel out of place but we live and let live.

True. I've walked into that chasidish shul on county line with two irreligious friends (leather jacket, jeans, and all), no one (besides the kids) had a problem, in fact they all tried to make sure they were happy, had thier coffee...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 11:23:08 AM
There is a reason why they would never allow you to see their books. IMHO all mosdos/organizations that are funded with the public's money should be required to show their books so there should some accountability.
The problem with making their book public is people will start nitpicking on every tiny thing.

You spent how much on pizza?  Oy
Why aren't you switching to alternative energy?  You should really have solar panels.
What???  You pay the principal how much???
Why did you change so many lightbulbs?
Your janitorial supply costs are too much. Stop using Mr. Clean and switch to my Bro in law who is a supplier and is cheaper.

While some of the questions would be valid, many would be simple complaints from people that don't understand everything that goes into running a school .

Just look at some of the idiotic comments on TLS when discussing the BOE. Allowing everyone to nitpick at the budget will just get people more upset and for the most part won't bring about any constructive changes.  Too many cooks type of thing.

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 03, 2016, 11:25:01 AM
The problem with makingt heirr book public os people will start nitpicking on every tiny thing.

You spent how much on pizza?  Oy
Why aren't you switching to alternative energy?  You should really have solar panels.
What???  You pay the principal how much???

While some of the questions would be valid, many would be simple compalint from people that don't understand everything that goes into running a school .

Just look at some of the idiotic comments on TLS when discussing the BOE. Allowing everyone to nitpick at the budget will just get people more upset and for the most part won't bring about any constructive changes.

What about the millionaires supporting the schools, they have enough brains to understand a budget.
Shouldn't they be able to analyze it?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 03, 2016, 11:27:24 AM
The problem with makingt heirr book public os people will start nitpicking on every tiny thing.

You spent how much on pizza?  Oy
Why aren't you switching to alternative energy?  You should really have solar panels.
What???  You pay the principal how much???
Why did you change so many lightbulbs?
Your janitorial supply costs are too much. Stop using Mr. Clean and switch to my Bro in law who is a supplier and is cheaper.

While some of the questions would be valid, many would be simple compalint from people that don't understand everything that goes into running a school .

Just look at some of the idiotic comments on TLS when discussing the BOE. Allowing everyone to nitpick at the budget will just get people more upset and for the most part won't bring about any constructive changes.  Too many cooks type of thing.
So have a committee of responsible/professional individuals who will review.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 11:28:01 AM
So have a committee of responsible/professional individuals who will review.
Most schools have that. It's called a Board of Directors.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 11:28:53 AM
What about the millionaires supporting the schools, they have enough brains to understand a budget.
Shouldn't they be able to analyze it?
Maybe they do.

The books are unaudited so it means nothing to me either way.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 03, 2016, 11:29:54 AM
Most schools have that. It's called a Board of Directors.
Dream on. Most school in LW are run by owner with NO oversight. Same with a lot of organizations that raise millions.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 11:30:26 AM
Fyi: If you want to do the math the cheder took in $22,322,950 in 2014.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 03, 2016, 11:31:13 AM
Maybe they do.

The books are unaudited so it means nothing to me either way.
Point of the committee would be to audit.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 03, 2016, 12:10:14 PM
Fyi: If you want to do the math the cheder took in $22,322,950 in 2014.
what is your calculation?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
what is your calculation?
Their documents
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 03, 2016, 12:18:00 PM
Their documents
which
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Emkay on January 03, 2016, 12:18:59 PM
Unless yeshivas open up their books there's nothing else to work with...
Have you bother going down and asking them if you care that much or are they supposed to file their budget with hamodia? I know someone that didn't want to pay full tuition and was spewing the same garbage as you guys and asked to see the chesbon and was shown it
Obviously not referring necessarily to the behemoth schools
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Jkhein on January 03, 2016, 12:26:07 PM
Can I just clarify something without upsetting anybody (probably not) but please tell me if this is in one sentence what this is all about?

A community that was started expressly for being the bastion of a certain kind of Torah hashkafa is now at risk of collapsing from within due to materialism and/or being simultaneously swallowed up for the outside by an influx of chasidim (mostly Satmar) from Brooklyn.

If I'm wrong, don't get offended; just correct me.
now this post takes the cake....
should we go through certain neighborhoods in Lakewood etc and start comparing the collapses of torah hashkafah? I think that will lead to lots of unnecessary Loshon hora, but you get the point.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 03, 2016, 12:27:49 PM
Again...I beg your forgiveness in advance but this thread answers all my questions by answering none of my questions. You see, what started as (I thought) a discussion of how to keep the original LW dream alive has immediately devolved into a Jackie Mason routine about Jews at a restaurant trying to figure out how much the guy makes.

Takke ein kemach ein Torah but when the discussion if money supplants the discussion if ideology then it is small wonder when that ideology is losing ground bgashmius (ein Torah ein kemach.)

I wonder where the real ideological Litvaks will go to begin anew  based on hashkafa and not on a business model.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 12:31:30 PM
which
Was searching online. Cant find it again. Heres 2003 thou 2003 Lakewood cheder.pdf
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B99cFiIyGDBpakxLcU5Db0dLS0k/view?usp=docslist_api
Everything is online, you just need to find it.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: mookie on January 03, 2016, 12:33:19 PM
You cannot assure anyone anything based on what you perceive as what should have been. You simply don't know.
I suggest you actually ask pp like R Berel Leifer, R O C Leiberman etc why they never entered Bmg with their shtreimals.
Just so I understand how this works, I cannot assure anything based on what I perceive but you can say I'm lying about my friend who lives right near yeshiva? But I'm pretty sure that if I asked either one of those Rabbis, neither would say the word takana.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Ephcc90 on January 03, 2016, 12:36:30 PM

Maybe they do.

The books are unaudited so it means nothing to me either way.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. You think a bank would lend millions of dollars without an audit or at the very least a review?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 12:41:41 PM
http://pdfs.citizenaudit.org/2014_06_EO/22-2137420_990_201308.pdf

Google the name of the school you are interested in searching for the 990
ie Lakewood Cheder 990
Bais Faiga 990
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 03, 2016, 12:46:39 PM
Fyi: If you want to do the math the cheder took in $22,322,950 in 2014.
http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/22-2137420/lakewood-chedar-school.aspx (http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/22-2137420/lakewood-chedar-school.aspx)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 03, 2016, 01:00:39 PM
Again...I beg your forgiveness in advance but this thread answers all my questions by answering none of my questions. You see, what started as (I thought) a discussion of how to keep the original LW dream alive has immediately devolved into a Jackie Mason routine about Jews at a restaurant trying to figure out how much the guy makes.

Takke ein kemach ein Torah but when the discussion if money supplants the discussion if ideology then it is small wonder when that ideology is losing ground bgashmius (ein Torah ein kemach.)

I wonder where the real ideological Litvaks will go to begin anew  based on hashkafa and not on a business model.

Very good point.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 01:08:58 PM
Just so I understand how this works, I cannot assure anything based on what I perceive but you can say I'm lying about my friend who lives right near yeshiva? But I'm pretty sure that if I asked either one of those Rabbis, neither would say the word takana.

Let's get something clear.

Are you saying that your friend has been entering Bmg bottei medrash with a shtreimal for decades or not?
I'm telling you that he has not.

You can use the word hakpadah of R Shneiur if you prefer.

Obviously in today's PC world I doubt that the Roshei Yeshiva are still makpid. (But I can't be sure what you would be told if you actually sincerely asked them what to do..)


Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 03, 2016, 01:24:53 PM
I'm pretty sure that's not true. You think a bank would lend millions of dollars without an audit or at the very least a review?
according to page 12 it is audited
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 03, 2016, 01:27:41 PM
Let's get something clear.

Are you saying that your friend has been entering Bmg bottei medrash with a shtreimal for decades or not?
I'm telling you that he has not.

You can use the word hakpadah of R Shneiur if you prefer.

Obviously in today's PC world I doubt that the Roshei Yeshiva are still makpid. (But I can't be sure what you would be told if you actually sincerely asked them what to do..)
There were very few "real" chassidim in reb schneurs time
and they either davened by Satmar or Kirshevsky
and if they needed to go into the "Old" BMG BM with a Striemel they did
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 01:28:15 PM
http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/22-2137420/lakewood-chedar-school.aspx (http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/22-2137420/lakewood-chedar-school.aspx)
Yeah, pretty decent income statement.
Let's help the Rabbeim!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 01:29:32 PM
according to page 12 it is audited
Correct. In accordance with OMB Circular A-133, non-profit entities that receive over 500K in federal funds need to be audited.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 03, 2016, 01:30:04 PM
Yeah, pretty decent income statement.
Let's help the Rabbeim!
In a year that they built a building that is a very poor income statement
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 01:30:06 PM
There were very few "real" chassidim in reb schneurs time
and they either davened by Satmar or Kirshevsky
and if they needed to go into the "Old" BMG BM with a Striemel they did
Ok I'm not fighting about this. I know the facts.
Habocher yivchar.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 03, 2016, 01:31:57 PM
Correct. In accordance with OMB Circular A-133, non-profit entities that receive over 500K in federal funds need to be audited.
and which line tells you that they got 500k in Federal funds
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 01:45:53 PM
(http://i64.tinypic.com/eukgg1.png)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 01:49:50 PM
and which line tells you that they got 500k in Federal funds
The grants are huge bh
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 03, 2016, 02:13:12 PM
Bizarre to me that you guys are still talking about money and not ideology. It's like my comment was written in Chinese.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: TorontoGuy on January 03, 2016, 02:17:04 PM
Bizarre to me that you guys are still talking about money and not ideology. It's like my comment was written in Chinese.
+1
New thread idea: Why and How Mosdos should pay their Rabbeim more.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 03, 2016, 02:23:14 PM
Let me spell it out for y'all. If there's nothing left to do but count the money then I question where the real talmidim of R' Shneur are.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 02:39:29 PM
Let me spell it out for y'all. If there's nothing left to do but count the money then I question where the real talmidim of R' Shneur are.
They're not here (on ddf) don't worry
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 02:40:20 PM
+1
New thread idea: Why and How Mosdos should pay their Rabbeim more.
Yeah the whole Rabbeim raise issue should be another thread
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 02:41:32 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/01/baalei-batim-from-orchas-chaim-donate-hundreds-of-thousand-of-dollars-for-raise-for-rabbeim.html
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 03, 2016, 02:59:04 PM
Yeah the whole Rabbeim raise issue should be another thread

That's a good idea.
I wonder what thread what will pop out of that one though.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: avrumy on January 03, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
Ok I'm not fighting about this. I know the facts.
Habocher yivchar.
+1000. I had a Rebbe who came to Lakewood in 1962 through 1969 and he used to tell us that there was a takana and noone had the chutzpa to come in to the BM with a Shtreimel.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 03:15:29 PM
+1000. I had a Rebbe who came to Lakewood in 1962 through 1969 and he used to tell us that there was a takana and noone had the chutzpa to come in to the BM with a Shtreimel.
If they want to make a shtettl for just litvish learning people they will need to do like kj and new square. Takanos takanos takanos, and nothing happens without the rosh of the town saying to do it.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 03, 2016, 04:37:00 PM
Amazing. So if you can't talk about gelt then there's really nothing to talk about. Wow. So this really has nothing to do with a Torah hashkafa. It's all just about star-belly sneeches on the beaches and don't you dare come into New Lithuania with your Galitzianer headgear.

Well, if that is really true then the original intentions of LW's founding fathers really has been lost. You've got no reason to protect yourself from the "immigrants." Not unless you stand for something.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 03, 2016, 05:07:48 PM
@Freddie is this not true in other enclaves as well? Like KJ? New square? 770? Bobov? YU? Israeli communities?
Just asking.  והכסף יענה את הכל Has always been true. 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 05:21:51 PM


Amazing. So if you can't talk about gelt then there's really nothing to talk about. Wow. So this really has nothing to do with a Torah hashkafa. It's all just about star-belly sneeches on the beaches and don't you dare come into New Lithuania with your Galitzianer headgear.

Well, if that is really true then the original intentions of LW's founding fathers really has been lost. You've got no reason to protect yourself from the "immigrants." Not unless you stand for something.

This wasn't good?  (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=16578.msg1369818.msg#1369818)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2016, 05:22:43 PM
The claim of BMG having a no shtreimal rule, is totally blown out of proportion.
And it definitely wasn't followed even 20 years ago.
It was at best an unspoken rule 50 years ago.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2016, 05:29:07 PM
This conversation is useless either way.
Lakewood has nothing to do with it's original intent anymore, and we are too far along to change that.
In a way, it's like the U.S Constitution.   :)


Sadly there are many yiddin who's life motto is: Oilam HaBa is a gutte zach, Oilam HaZeh is a besser zach.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Yisroel klein on January 03, 2016, 05:45:16 PM
This conversation is useless either way.
Lakewood has nothing to do with it's original intent anymore, and we are too far along to change that.
In a way, it's like the U.S Constitution.   :)


Sadly there are many yiddin who's life motto is: Oilam HaBa is a gutte zach, Oilam HaZeh is a besser zach.
+1
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 03, 2016, 05:57:02 PM
Amazing. So if you can't talk about gelt then there's really nothing to talk about. Wow. So this really has nothing to do with a Torah hashkafa. It's all just about star-belly sneeches on the beaches and don't you dare come into New Lithuania with your Galitzianer headgear.

Well, if that is really true then the original intentions of LW's founding fathers really has been lost. You've got no reason to protect yourself from the "immigrants." Not unless you stand for something.
I like your passion and outlook.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 03, 2016, 07:07:19 PM
@Freddie is this not true in other enclaves as well? Like KJ? New square? 770? Bobov? YU? Israeli communities?
Just asking.  והכסף יענה את הכל Has always been true.

Yeah, money and power almost always ruin everything but the difference between Lakewood and all the other examples you cited are that they didn't give way to "foreign" influences. KJ isn't getting flooded by Litvaks. Crown Heights isn't even considered a place to live by any frummer Yidden but Chabad. New Square for anyone other than Skvir? I don't think so.

So why is it that when Lakewood became all about the money it didn't at least remain a place for the original community it was founded for to fight about money?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 07:23:10 PM
Heard from an odom chochom:


"לייקווד האט גווין עמאל נאר דרי הונדראט ישיבהלייט, איז דא נאך אלצ היינט  דרי הונדראט ישיבהלייט "

(Pardon my Yiddish)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 03, 2016, 07:30:47 PM
Heard from an odom chochom:


"לייקווד האט גווין עמאל נאר דרי הונדראט ישיבהלייט, איז דא נאך אלצ היינט  דרי הונדראט ישיבהלייט "

(Pardon my Yiddish)
Good one.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: akivak on January 03, 2016, 08:01:55 PM
If they want to make a shtettl for just litvish learning people they will need to do like kj and new square. Takanos takanos takanos, and nothing happens without the rosh of the town saying to do it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you would be possible to have a city of people just learning there will be nobody to support them.
In order to have a city of people learning the whole day you have to have an equal balance of working people
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 03, 2016, 08:16:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you would be possible to have a city of people just learning there will be nobody to support them.
In order to have a city of people learning the whole day you have to have an equal balance of working people
If there is a yeshiva with 7000 people, with proper funding they should be able to have thier own place with houses for kollel guys and all w/o being based around a community
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 03, 2016, 08:18:18 PM
So why is it that when Lakewood became all about the money it didn't at least remain a place for the original community it was founded for to fight about money?
Ah, this I can answer. Lakewood doesn't belong to a particular sect, Lakewood 'belongs' to yeshivaleit. Broadly, this includes all who learnt in litvish style yeshivos. The chassidim aren't the issue, they are self contained and very new, the materialism is brought in by Bnei Flatbush etc. and homegrown Lakewood Alumnus, who consider themselves as part of the original vision, since they are the contemporaries and friends of those who are still learning, and they too spent years pre and post marriage in kollel. Like @CBC, for example :)


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you would be possible to have a city of people just learning there will be nobody to support them.
In order to have a city of people learning the whole day you have to have an equal balance of working people
I think what the 'old school' guys are looking for are old school Lakewood Baaleibatim, like Dr. Shanik. Simple people who want to live in a yeshiva community so as to feel a sense of belonging and closeness to the yeshiva. And to answer your question, there were 48 Arei leviim. No one 'worked' there.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 03, 2016, 08:19:14 PM
If there is a yeshiva with 7000 people, with proper funding they should be able to have thier own place with houses for kollel guys and all w/o being based around a community
LIke the NIRC model? if BMG was campus based that would work.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on January 03, 2016, 08:31:36 PM
LIke the NIRC model? if BMG was campus based that would work.

NIRC is much smaller, charges tuition until Kollel (sometimes even during), and is funded heavily by the community and Alumni.  I don't think that's scalable to 7,000.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on January 03, 2016, 09:57:31 PM
Like @CBC, for example :)
@CBC is an asset to Lakewood (and DDF)  :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 03, 2016, 09:59:08 PM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/01/audio-conversation-on-poverty-in.html?m=1

Aaron Kotler starts around 15:00

Discussing the viability of the kollel model
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Centro on January 03, 2016, 10:00:45 PM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/01/audio-conversation-on-poverty-in.html?m=1

R Aaron Kotler starts arounf 15:00

Discussing the viability of the kollel model
FTFY
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 03, 2016, 10:04:58 PM
@CBC is an asset to Lakewood (and DDF)  :)
I never intended to insinuate otherwise. So is Dr. Shanik. (not DDF, as far as I know).
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:21:16 PM
@CBC is an asset to Lakewood (and DDF)  :)
Aww thanks, I needed that !
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2016, 10:22:15 PM


  Dr. Shanik. (not DDF, as far as I know).
Lol
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2016, 11:55:08 AM
The claim of BMG having a no shtreimal rule, is totally blown out of proportion.
And it definitely wasn't followed even 20 years ago.
It was at best an unspoken rule 50 years ago.
I actually asked someone last night, someone who holds of himself as a talmid of R' Schneur and he insisted it was a Hakapada
So i stand corrected as well
and on that vein he also had a hakpada against Mitzva Tanzen by weddings
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Iz on January 04, 2016, 12:23:22 PM
I actually asked someone last night, someone who holds of himself as a talmid of R' Schneur and he insisted it was a Hakapada
So i stand corrected as well
and on that vein he also had a hakpada against Mitzva Tanzen by weddings
Chassidim are famously very proud of and makpid on their mesorah/minhagim. Nowadays, it's not so common to see this by Bnei Yeshivos. But the old time Litvishe Roshei Yeshivos certainly had this. That's (at least partly) what this is about.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 04, 2016, 01:53:24 PM
It was more about the concept of tzuras hayshiva and the fact that chasidim have difficulties fully shteling tzu to the sedorim, Zemanim and mahalach of the yeshiva.
R Shneiur felt that a shtreimal is a stira to a proper tzurah.

(You have to be very yeshivish to understand this, don't worry if not.) ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on January 04, 2016, 02:12:16 PM
It was more about the concept of tzuras hayshiva and the fact that chasidim have difficulties fully shteling tzu to the sedorim, Zemanim and mahalach of the yeshiva.
R Shneiur felt that a shtreimal is a stira to a proper tzurah.

(You have to be very yeshivish to understand this, don't worry if not.) ;)

I completely respect that.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 05, 2016, 08:00:40 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0ajzgTiokl4/VooHhx44S1I/AAAAAAAADTk/cPSCjQ2AhI0/s1600/679.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 06, 2016, 10:26:10 AM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/01/is-it-renters-market.html?m=1
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2016, 12:34:00 PM
I would imagine that at this point the "full fledged" chassidim coming to Lakewood will be beneficial to keeping the original "tzura" of Lakewood. THe ones moving to Lakewood have generally been those looking for more of the "yeshivishe" values and less of the tina baygel type. The ones who changed the face of Lakewood have primarily been from the ones who came to learn in Kollel for a year or two but were never really living that lifestyle and the others after they left kollel as well as those who moved for cheaper housing etc. but more litvish/heimish style. It is more of an effect of the yeshiva's policy that there be no other place for them to go. If there would be other options then they may have gone there and left Lakewood the way it was.

There is only one way to fight and win against demographics and that is genocide. Any other way is doomed to failure.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 06, 2016, 02:50:37 PM
It is more of an effect of the yeshiva's policy that there be no other place for them to go.
Bingo. They are sleeping in the bed they made.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2016, 02:51:24 PM
Bingo. They are sleeping in the bed they made.
I think the 2 theys in your sentence are different groups.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 06, 2016, 04:19:36 PM
I think the 2 theys in your sentence are different groups.
Nope. Both referring to BMG and its successors, affiliates and anybody related to that entity.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2016, 04:46:32 PM
Nope. Both referring to BMG and its successors, affiliates and anybody related to that entity.
I would say that the talmidim who are more interested in the "classic Lakewood" aresleeping in the bed made by some members of the hanhalas hayeshiva.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 07, 2016, 10:44:32 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160108/4a46c2453e68dace385a671b0b89d230.jpg)


No, I didn't write it. But I like
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 10, 2016, 08:07:01 PM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/01/not-as-rosy-as-it-seems.html?m=1
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 10, 2016, 10:02:22 PM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/01/not-as-rosy-as-it-seems.html?m=1 (http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/01/not-as-rosy-as-it-seems.html?m=1)
So this comment addresses your earlier position on the mosdos raking it in - maybe you should take him up on it?
Quote
I know of a rosh mosad that made somebody an offer. I will give you all the tuition income if you agree to cover all the budget and expenses. So far nobody took him up on the offer
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 10, 2016, 10:08:00 PM
So this comment addresses your earlier position on the mosdos raking it in - maybe you should take him up on it?
I'm not saying the roshei mosdos who are raking it in (not all of them BTW) don't work very hard for the money.

I have enough on my plate bh.. The last thing I need is to be a rosh mosad. Money or not.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 10, 2016, 10:35:03 PM
So this comment addresses your earlier position on the mosdos raking it in - maybe you should take him up on it?
And he gets the grants, subsidies, dedications, fundraising, etc?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 19, 2016, 01:33:45 PM
At fress gourmet

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x3mhf4ibvJw/Vp5mB9oXFhI/AAAAAAAADf0/WcEl3zKvGCo/s1600/2223.jpg)
Oy
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on January 19, 2016, 01:41:03 PM
When's the last time he went to a supermarket?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yakrot on January 19, 2016, 02:21:47 PM

When's the last time he went to a supermarket?
last time someone paid him to go to one
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 19, 2016, 04:38:02 PM
last time someone paid him to go to one
I am sure all the "local?" grocery stores were very please at the warm welcome the R"H gave their newest out-of-town competition.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: CS1 on January 20, 2016, 09:36:12 AM
When's the last time he went to a supermarket?

is this to show achdus?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 20, 2016, 09:37:16 AM
is this to show achdus?
How would it do that?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 20, 2016, 10:56:59 AM
is this to show achdus?
Achdus with glatt gourmet?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 20, 2016, 12:56:45 PM
Achdus with glatt gourmet?
Achdus of Glatt Gourmet with Gourmet Glatt  :P
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 20, 2016, 01:19:13 PM
Achdus of Glatt Gourmet with Gourmet Glatt 
If I was Glatt gourmet I would sue them.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 20, 2016, 01:24:49 PM
Since when can't there be another grocery in Lakewood? It's not a Movie.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 20, 2016, 01:47:04 PM
If I was Glatt gourmet I would sue them.
that wouldn;t be achdus
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 01, 2016, 11:21:52 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2A0qdaPbKww/Vq97tTs_ixI/AAAAAAAADps/B7s4reZd9H0/s1600/68.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 01, 2016, 12:42:38 PM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2A0qdaPbKww/Vq97tTs_ixI/AAAAAAAADps/B7s4reZd9H0/s1600/68.jpg)
DO?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 01, 2016, 12:43:11 PM
DO?
[/quote]
was already..my bad
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: JoeyShmoe on February 01, 2016, 12:43:43 PM
DO?
You're a day late :P
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 02, 2016, 06:16:24 PM
TONIGHT: Levaya of Habachur Refael Tzvi (Tzviki) Ben R' Dovid Levine z"l will be at 11:30 PM at the chapel on 7th St.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 02, 2016, 11:00:34 PM
Can we do anything to prevent these tragedies?

Anything?

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on February 02, 2016, 11:51:06 PM
Live stream of Ralph Levin levaya - http://www.ustream.tv/channel/AJx7heUsLZD?utm_campaign=ustre.am&utm_source=ustre.am%2F1tYGZ&utm_medium=social&utm_content=20160202203035
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on February 02, 2016, 11:52:47 PM
Live stream of Ralph Levin levaya - http://www.ustream.tv/channel/AJx7heUsLZD?utm_campaign=ustre.am&utm_source=ustre.am%2F1tYGZ&utm_medium=social&utm_content=20160202203035
thank you
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 05, 2016, 11:40:38 AM
Omg
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 05, 2016, 12:09:10 PM
Omg

So Rina is the new CM?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 05, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
So Rina is the new CM?
Dunno but I wonder what she recommends for the flu
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: semper fi on February 05, 2016, 01:07:00 PM
Omg
What is the omg ? Stick a fork in it ?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 05, 2016, 01:08:17 PM
Dunno but I wonder what she recommends for the flu
Oregano Oil
and A dose of garlic—a natural antiseptic—will do a job on those viruses. If you’re feeling very brave, hold a small clove or a half-clove of garlic in your mouth and breathe the fumes into your throat and lungs. If it gets too strong as the clove softens, just chew if up quickly into smaller pieces and swallow with water.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 05, 2016, 01:33:31 PM
What is the omg ? Stick a fork in it ?
No. Just couldn't believe that I had never heard of this cure untill now.
Everything is fine now.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2016, 04:41:42 PM
Omg
Sounds like darchei emori
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: semper fi on February 05, 2016, 04:54:52 PM
No. Just couldn't believe that I had never heard of this cure untill now.
Everything is fine now.
I was actually given that remedy from a top pediatrician and I also thought it was a little strange so I confirmed it with a 2nd pediatrician.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: chevron on February 06, 2016, 09:09:09 PM
http://m.hoax-slayer.com/onions-flu-remedy.shtml
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: semper fi on February 06, 2016, 10:05:44 PM
http://m.hoax-slayer.com/onions-flu-remedy.shtml
The article in the voice was about a common cold not the flu. The Dr's. I had got this from was referring to a common cold as well, and his theory was that the onion will open up the mucus of the kid that has a cold. 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 07, 2016, 12:22:23 AM
The article in the voice was about a common cold not the flu. The Dr's. I had got this from was referring to a common cold as well, and his theory was that the onion will open up the mucus of the kid that has a cold. 
That is very different than the article which states that they suck up the germs. THe Drs you spoke to felt that it may have the ability to reduce symptoms.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on February 07, 2016, 10:28:54 AM
I totally understand how the stupidity submitted in that section of the voice (or the whole magazine) is in this thread. One week someone asked what's the best way to loose weight, the responses was not stop eating so much kugel but rather adding a little bit of grape juice to your water.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 07, 2016, 05:03:37 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/02/audio-caller-to-eat-a-pita-about-superbowl-ads-this-is-not-what-reb-aaron-had-in-mind.html
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 07, 2016, 06:53:54 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/02/audio-caller-to-eat-a-pita-about-superbowl-ads-this-is-not-what-reb-aaron-had-in-mind.html
same serial caller ?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 07, 2016, 06:56:21 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/02/audio-caller-to-eat-a-pita-about-superbowl-ads-this-is-not-what-reb-aaron-had-in-mind.html
and i happen to agree, super bowl ads don't belong in the Ihr Hatorah, you can advertise tzniusly
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 07, 2016, 07:11:05 PM
and i happen to agree, super bowl ads don't belong in the Ihr Hatorah, you can advertise tzniusly
Dunno, I imagine the tatty's sit in the living room around the big TV with the kids - drinking beer, eating poppers and yell drunkedly at the screen, while the wives serve them.

am I off?

Seriously. Does this really happen in Lakewood homes?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on February 07, 2016, 07:43:23 PM

Seriously. Does this really happen in Lakewood homes?
lets just hope not. I was in Glat Bite today around 1 o'clock I was shocked buy  the super ball traffic.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: afro on February 08, 2016, 05:22:26 PM
I think R' Aaron would be thrilled at the way Lakewood is now and I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how R' Aaron imagined 08701 to be in 2016. There is something call ירידת הדורות, that's is a fact. Consequently R' Aaron knew and expected Lakewood to change and be influenced by the times . Not that it's ok and we shouldn't fight it, but maybe he would be proud that these are the issues were dealing with and not worse. Let's remember what was going on in Europe before the מלחמה, there was the epidemic of הסקלה that destroyed hundreds and thousands of כלל ישראל. Assimilation was a massive problem as well, especially in Germany. I won't bother mentioning what a hold the Zionist, Communist movements had on Jewish youth of the day. Every generation has its problems and so does every place. Just be happy that we have thousands of yungerleit learning and being מוסר נפש to learn. Could things be better in 08701? Yes, but it could be a lot worse.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 08, 2016, 06:59:56 PM
I think R' Aaron would be thrilled at the way Lakewood is now and I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how R' Aaron imagined 08701 to be in 2016. There is something call ירידת הדורות, that's is a fact. Consequently R' Aaron knew and expected Lakewood to change and be influenced by the times . Not that it's ok and we shouldn't fight it, but maybe he would be proud that these are the issues were dealing with and not worse. Let's remember what was going on in Europe before the מלחמה, there was the epidemic of הסקלה that destroyed hundreds and thousands of כלל ישראל. Assimilation was a massive problem as well, especially in Germany. I won't bother mentioning what a hold the Zionist, Communist movements had on Jewish youth of the day. Every generation has its problems and so does every place. Just be happy that we have thousands of yungerleit learning and being מוסר נפש to learn. Could things be better in 08701? Yes, but it could be a lot worse.
BTW, most of this goes for America as well the entire time that R' Aharon was alive.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Crazy tools on February 14, 2016, 03:14:35 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/02/video-shocking-revelations-attorney-michael-inzelbuch-digs-and-finds-explosive-documents.html
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: afro on February 15, 2016, 06:20:23 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/02/video-shocking-revelations-attorney-michael-inzelbuch-digs-and-finds-explosive-documents.html

You posted first but it should (also?) go here:
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=42265.120
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2016, 04:41:25 PM
Since when is the fire elections a Zach?
Is this a machlokes mamash lishmoh?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on February 20, 2016, 11:18:24 PM

Since when is the fire elections a Zach?
Is this a machlokes mamash lishmoh?
is anything?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 21, 2016, 01:29:38 AM
Since when is the fire elections a Zach?
Is this a machlokes mamash lishmoh?
I seem to remember you saying that if a machlokes is totally lishmo it is a problem.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: talmid chuchem on February 22, 2016, 02:02:36 AM
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.
The effect of this was that for the most part, people only wore shtreimals at home, Bmg was the center of the community.


Can anyone please write a valid reason that Shtreimel's weren't allowed in BMG? Other than petty political and power reasons?
It'd probably like there are shuls now that don't allow to take out a smartphone in shul, in other words "your unwelcome"
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 22, 2016, 08:15:17 AM
It'd probably like there are shuls now that don't allow to take out a smartphone in shul, in other words "your unwelcome"
I think the point is that the smartphone is unwelcome
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 22, 2016, 12:46:44 PM
I think the point is that the smartphone is unwelcome
+1

It'd probably like there are shuls now that don't allow to take out a smartphone in shul, in other words "your unwelcome"
You don't see why someone would consider a smartphone to be inappropriate in the shul? ??? :o :o :o
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 22, 2016, 03:02:26 PM
+1
You don't see why someone would consider a smartphone to be inappropriate in the shul? ??? :o :o :o
But I do use my phone as a sidur, chumash and sefer - but not in Lakewood shuls...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 22, 2016, 03:33:56 PM
But I do use my phone as a sidur, chumash and sefer - but not in Lakewood shuls...
I get that but there are so many who spend mariv on WhatApp etc that there is good reason to say that it lowers the decorum of the shul. I am not telling you or him what to do but to say that it means that they don't want certain people is utterly ridiculous, unless it is along the lines of "we don't want people who talk in shul". In general I would only daven from my phone when left with no other choice including baal peh but that is my personal thing.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 23, 2016, 06:53:02 PM
http://nypost.com/2016/02/23/towns-restrict-door-to-door-solicitation-amid-hasidic-influx/
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 26, 2016, 07:34:48 AM
http://matzav.com/are-large-frum-communities-and-attention-to-quality-of-life-issues-contradictory/



Here's why a moratorium on building will never happen:
30-50% of the Lakewood economy depends on the real estate industry.

From builders to suppliers to interior designers to agents to day labourers.
A moratorium would mean thousands loosing their parnassa.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 26, 2016, 11:07:44 AM
not if they can do it in a different town like Howell, TR and Jackson
Egg Harbor anyone
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 26, 2016, 11:34:24 AM
http://matzav.com/are-large-frum-communities-and-attention-to-quality-of-life-issues-contradictory/



Here's why a moratorium on building will never happen:
30-50% of the Lakewood economy depends on the real estate industry.

From builders to suppliers to interior designers to agents to day labourers.
A moratorium would mean thousands loosing their parnassa.

You know Lakewood isn't the only place where real estate exists, right?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 26, 2016, 01:28:58 PM
You know Lakewood isn't the only place where real estate exists, right?
it is with that standard of building and zoning codes and enforcement
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 26, 2016, 01:50:05 PM
You know Lakewood isn't the only place where real estate exists, right?
Open up the voice for example. 50% of businesses service the LOCAL real estate industry.
How would it help local businesses if new comun8ties open elsewhere?

(BTW, the other 20% of business are clothing, 20% food, 10% "other". )
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 27, 2016, 09:48:23 PM
Open up the voice for example. 50% of businesses service the LOCAL real estate industry.
How would it help local businesses if new comun8ties open elsewhere?

(BTW, the other 20% of business are clothing, 20% food, 10% "other". )

Real estate companies in Lakewood (and all related services) aren't limited to the customers of real estate in Lakewood.
They will just start building more in neighboring towns.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: asd on March 14, 2016, 09:19:04 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-14/orthodox-jews-set-sights-on-n-j-town-and-angry-residents-resist
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: theduke on March 14, 2016, 10:15:49 AM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/03/exclusive-video-photos-lakewoods-baruch-jeremias-and-yehuda-beinstock-establish-new-lakewood-kollel-in-chesterfield-missouri.html

How about this show of wealth coming from Lakewood.
Like the old saying "if your a knacker and now one can hear you, are you truly a knacker?" Bh they brought a photographer! and even a noted shadchan was there presumably to make shidduchim with the newly frum ppl in Missouri!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 10:20:34 AM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/03/exclusive-video-photos-lakewoods-baruch-jeremias-and-yehuda-beinstock-establish-new-lakewood-kollel-in-chesterfield-missouri.html

How about this show of wealth coming from Lakewood.
Like the old saying "if your a knacker and now one can hear you, are you truly a knacker?" Bh they brought a photographer! and even a noted shadchan was there presumably to make shidduchim with the newly frum ppl in Missouri!

Lol! They probably got a jetsmarter deal :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 14, 2016, 11:38:10 AM
How much are houses in Missouri?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on March 14, 2016, 11:39:47 AM
How much are houses in Missouri?
and do they have tuition vouchers

i hear houses in furgeson are going for cheap
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on March 14, 2016, 11:41:48 AM
How much are houses in Missouri?
Starts from $24,900 in kansas city
Eta: I see for $5,000 too.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 14, 2016, 11:58:46 AM
Sounds great! Might go back to kollel.
How much is burich paying?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: alexk. on March 14, 2016, 12:27:16 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/03/exclusive-video-photos-lakewoods-baruch-jeremias-and-yehuda-beinstock-establish-new-lakewood-kollel-in-chesterfield-missouri.html

How about this show of wealth coming from Lakewood.
Like the old saying "if your a knacker and now one can hear you, are you truly a knacker?" Bh they brought a photographer! and even a noted shadchan was there presumably to make shidduchim with the newly frum ppl in Missouri!

Ummm... If you were referring to Freddy Friedman, that was not him. That is Sruly Orzel from Monsey...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on March 14, 2016, 12:33:24 PM
How much are houses in Missouri?
Houses are not to cheap in chesterfield
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: theduke on March 14, 2016, 01:02:22 PM
Ummm... If you were referring to Freddy Friedman, that was not him. That is Sruly Orzel from Monsey...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ciF_kAHd3uo/VuZD26yqPiI/AAAAAAAEvNc/xQRqi-K6ODUUqOPJvzcWH0PrI17rWIChA/s800/IMG_5596.JPG
Picture 111 of 141

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: alexk. on March 14, 2016, 01:14:55 PM
The one on the left is Sruly Orzel.

Not sure who the guy on the right is if that is who you are referring to...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: theduke on March 14, 2016, 01:17:36 PM
The one on the left is Sruly Orzel.

Not sure who the guy on the right is if that is who you are referring to...
I know that is sruly orzel, I'm referring to the other guy.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: puddles on March 14, 2016, 04:04:26 PM
I know that is sruly orzel, I'm referring to the other guy.
The great Freddy Friedman. Supporter of Kollel Shidduchim and Tom Brady meet and greets
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: theduke on March 14, 2016, 04:40:51 PM
The great Freddy Friedman. Supporter of Kollel Shidduchim and Tom Brady meet and greets
LOL, maybe the newly settled Chesterfield olam is tackling the impending shidduch crisis before it starts. I wonder if Orzel, Weiskopf, reider and Jerimias will be paying the shadchanus like rechnitz does in LA?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dr Moose on March 14, 2016, 05:45:40 PM
presumably to make shidduchim with the newly frum ppl in Missouri!
I'm sorry for your ignorance, but frum people have been living in Missouri for some time now.

And of course they bring a photographer. They want to commemorate such an occasion as this, a new kollel opening in a remote OOT community.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: theduke on March 14, 2016, 06:20:59 PM
I'm sorry for your ignorance, but frum people have been living in Missouri for some time now.

And of course they bring a photographer. They want to commemorate such an occasion as this, a new kollel opening in a remote OOT community.
I was obviously being facetious!
I think a few pictures of R Malkiel speaking would have sufficed. No need for the inside of the private plane and the picture of the group in front of the plane. Reminds me of #richkidsofinstagram
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: danrocks613 on March 16, 2016, 07:52:29 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160316/27dab40bee6136534be6d195ba7e3920.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: danrocks613 on March 16, 2016, 07:52:47 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160316/4b230aa9735ea926510d31b965556563.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: chevron on March 16, 2016, 11:37:56 PM
very erudite... shame most frum communication is borderline hostile anti semitec accusatory.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on April 05, 2016, 01:30:35 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/04/rabbi-m-z-weisberg-for-shame-jaccuse-rejoinder-to-app-editorial-and-slew-of-hateful-letters-and-blog-entries.html
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 01, 2016, 11:51:04 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20160501_Doorbells_ring__charges_fly_at_Shore_towns.html#o1PkD4HBr8UkgKAW.99
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on May 02, 2016, 12:57:49 AM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20160501_Doorbells_ring__charges_fly_at_Shore_towns.html#o1PkD4HBr8UkgKAW.99

That first pic at the top is my cousin lol
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 02, 2016, 03:54:36 PM
Today on 101.5 fm talking about Lakewood/TR/Jackson growth
Btwn 4-5 pm
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on May 02, 2016, 05:27:41 PM
Seems similar to Monsey. They'll kick and scream and lose time and again.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 02, 2016, 05:30:37 PM
Seems similar to Monsey. They'll kick and scream and lose time and again.
Maybe, but there is still a very long way to go b4 there is a majority in jackson, tr and howel.

But the hatred coming out is making me a little nervous
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on May 02, 2016, 05:35:01 PM
Maybe, but there is still a very long way to go b4 there is a majority in jackson, tr and howel.

But the hatred coming out is making me a little nervous

There is nothing we can do about it. Eisav Sonei LeYaakov. Wherever Jews expand, all hidden anti-Semites come out of their holes, whether it's Ulster County, Orange County, Sullivan County, Rockland County, or Ocean County.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on May 02, 2016, 06:20:23 PM
There is nothing we can do about it. Eisav Sonei LeYaakov. Wherever Jews expand, all hidden anti-Semites come out of their holes, whether it's Ulster County, Orange County, Sullivan County, Rockland County, or Ocean County.
There is more to it. The Orthodox destroyed the infrastructure of Lakewood, they have a right to be scared.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 02, 2016, 07:18:12 PM
There is more to it. The Orthodox destroyed the infrastructure of Lakewood, they have a right to be scared.
That's the scariest part of all.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on May 02, 2016, 08:16:17 PM
Maybe, but there is still a very long way to go b4 there is a majority in jackson, tr and howel.

But the hatred coming out is making me a little nervous
All it takes is a person to bribe the right people for a development and from there it will be a chain reaction.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yoruel on May 02, 2016, 11:41:39 PM
All it takes is a person to bribe the right people for a development and from there it will be a chain reaction.
Someone asked the Wine store why they carry such expensive bottles of Scotch. The owner answered do you know how many developments can be built with that bottle(and were built) :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yzj on May 22, 2016, 12:28:45 AM
Now the state officials who studied the route 9 congestion  issue want to make Hurley a one way eastbound only between Route 9 and Cedarbridge, forcing all the Cedarbridge traffic to turn left on to the 88 to access Route 9 North, because their models show that this would improve the Central ave access to the 9 and help the traffic flow there. If you think Cedarbridge is congested now.....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 22, 2016, 12:45:33 AM
Now the state officials who studied the route 9 congestion  issue want to make Hurley a one way eastbound only between Route 9 and Cedarbridge, forcing all the Cedarbridge traffic to turn left on to the 88 to access Route 9 North, because their models show that this would improve the Central ave access to the 9 and help the traffic flow there. If you think Cedarbridge is congested now.....
How would I get from cedarbridge to central??

#I really should move to Cleveland
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: monkey on May 22, 2016, 01:04:19 AM
Yet the zoning board continues to allow more homes to be built ignoring the traffic nightmare.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on May 22, 2016, 01:16:47 AM
Yet the zoning board continues to allow more homes to be built ignoring the traffic nightmare.
It's not only the traffic, its the drivers too.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yzj on May 22, 2016, 02:08:17 AM
When the state changes go into effect to get from cedarbridge to central you would have to take Cedarbridge to 88 to route 9 to central. The plan has not yet been finalized.....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 22, 2016, 08:02:38 AM
When the state changes go into effect to get from cedarbridge to central you would have to take Cedarbridge to 88 to route 9 to central. The plan has not yet been finalized.....
I would divert to pine/james via oberlain.

You can't fix congestion by just shuffling things around.
You have to add infrastructure. Nothing else can help
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on May 22, 2016, 08:51:33 AM
Now the state officials who studied the route 9 congestion  issue want to make Hurley a one way eastbound only between Route 9 and Cedarbridge, forcing all the Cedarbridge traffic to turn left on to the 88 to access Route 9 North, because their models show that this would improve the Central ave access to the 9 and help the traffic flow there. If you think Cedarbridge is congested now.....
It would definitely help turning from central onto 9 if there is no light from the other side but I cannot understand how they feel this will help overall.

I would divert to pine/james via oberlain.

You can't fix congestion by just shuffling things around.
You have to add infrastructure. Nothing else can help

Pine isn't that much better. You sometimes can help by shifting things. Here it is likely to be yatza scharo bihefsedo
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yzj on May 22, 2016, 05:43:17 PM
The plan is to add two left turning lanes to central, make two lanes on 9NB between central and 88 and longer turning lanes SB to make the left onto Hurley. Helps other traffic but will probably turn CedarBridge into a parking lot since there are no plans to add lanes to cedarbridge so all the traffic that used to turn left onto Hurley as well as the Cedarbridge traffic will now try to squeeze into one left turning lane to make the left onto 88 which is already a disaster now.... If only they would eliminate the parking spaces there and make two left turning lanes onto 88 maybe there would be something to talk about.....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: my4 on May 23, 2016, 09:02:21 AM
now even cross is bad.looks like the new 9 maybe fix it BEFORE it gets bad
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 23, 2016, 09:06:15 AM
now even cross is bad.looks like the new 9 maybe fix it BEFORE it gets bad
Cross is horrible.
Lakewood is horrible.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: dudi on May 23, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
The plan is to add two left turning lanes to central, make two lanes on 9NB between central and 88 and longer turning lanes SB to make the left onto Hurley. Helps other traffic but will probably turn CedarBridge into a parking lot since there are no plans to add lanes to cedarbridge so all the traffic that used to turn left onto Hurley as well as the Cedarbridge traffic will now try to squeeze into one left turning lane to make the left onto 88 which is already a disaster now.... If only they would eliminate the parking spaces there and make two left turning lanes onto 88 maybe there would be something to talk about.....
At the end of the day it will fix the issue of prospect-central on the 9 which but they gonna have to make 9SB from 88 to central a 2 lane street
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on May 23, 2016, 09:49:59 AM
Soon Lakewood is going to be like new york. I take the van wyke to go to a different part of town because local streets are to slow.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 23, 2016, 09:52:46 AM
Soon Lakewood is going to be like new york. I take the van wyke to go to a different part of town because local streets are to slow.
It is already like NYC. but there is no van wyke!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on May 23, 2016, 09:57:25 AM
It is already like NYC. but there is no van wyke!
Your best bet is taking chestnut/rt70 to New Hampshire, to Kennedy for the fastest route.
As long as they don't build to many places with entrances on New Hampshire it may be the next "expressway" thru Lakewood.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on May 23, 2016, 10:19:25 AM
now even cross is bad.looks like the new 9 maybe fix it BEFORE it gets bad
All Cross neeeds is a turning lane onto James and it will be fine.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on May 23, 2016, 10:20:25 AM
All Cross neeeds is a turning lane onto James and it will be fine.
How about Prospect onto Cross, that pretty bad too.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on May 23, 2016, 10:23:19 AM
How about Prospect onto Cross, that pretty bad too.
Can't tell you since I have not experienced it. What is the exact issue? I would imagine it is the Left from Prospect onto Cross. THat would be helped by a turning lane on Cross to James and probably solved with a traffic light, but there would again need to be a turning lane Cross onto Prospect.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on May 23, 2016, 10:34:29 AM
Can't tell you since I have not experienced it. What is the exact issue? I would imagine it is the Left from Prospect onto Cross. THat would be helped by a turning lane on Cross to James and probably solved with a traffic light, but there would again need to be a turning lane Cross onto Prospect.

The issue is a right onto cross mostly, it can get backed up all the way to prospect vines. It seems it only became really bad since williams started being closed on a regular basis. Turning left onto cross is usually not a big deal ppl are nice and let them through.
What im confused is why cross in both directions is only backed up till James, towards prospect it clearly just needs a turning lane onto james but the other direction makes no sense.
Where are you suggesting a traffic light, From prospect it wouldn't help the traffic would have no where to go?
A turning lane from cross onto prospect would help a little, but theres enough room there for ppl to get around those that are turning.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on May 23, 2016, 10:39:37 AM


The plan is to add two left turning lanes to central

To central on the 9 or from central on to the 9?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on May 23, 2016, 10:49:50 AM
The issue is a right onto cross mostly, it can get backed up all the way to prospect vines. It seems it only became really bad since williams started being closed on a regular basis. Turning left onto cross is usually not a big deal ppl are nice and let them through.
What im confused is why cross in both directions is only backed up till James, towards prospect it clearly just needs a turning lane onto james but the other direction makes no sense.
Where are you suggesting a traffic light, From prospect it wouldn't help the traffic would have no where to go?
A turning lane from cross onto prospect would help a little, but theres enough room there for ppl to get around those that are turning.

The real issue in that is that Williams has been closed almost every day for weeks on end, causing ridiculous traffic backups on 9 and Cross. I've tried calling the township and just been bounced around. Construction should be forced to happen at night, it's ridiculous that 9 is backed up to 4th st every afternoon to accommodate some private construction.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on May 23, 2016, 10:55:03 AM
The real issue in that is that Williams has been closed almost every day for weeks on end, causing ridiculous traffic backups on 9 and Cross. I've tried calling the township and just been bounced around. Construction should be forced to happen at night, it's ridiculous that 9 is backed up to 4th st every afternoon to accommodate some private construction.
Late last week the police said they'll only close williams after 9:30 am when traffic slows down but latest 10:00, i don't know if they do that or not but doesnt seem to have helped at all
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on May 23, 2016, 10:57:11 AM
Late last week the police said they'll only close williams after 9:30 am when traffic slows down but latest 10:00, i don't know if they do that or not but doesnt seem to have helped at all
Doesn't help much for the afternoon
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on May 23, 2016, 11:06:35 AM
The issue is a right onto cross mostly, it can get backed up all the way to prospect vines. It seems it only became really bad since williams started being closed on a regular basis. Turning left onto cross is usually not a big deal ppl are nice and let them through.
What im confused is why cross in both directions is only backed up till James, towards prospect it clearly just needs a turning lane onto james but the other direction makes no sense.
Where are you suggesting a traffic light, From prospect it wouldn't help the traffic would have no where to go?
A turning lane from cross onto prospect would help a little, but theres enough room there for ppl to get around those that are turning.
If it is from the construction then there is not much to do. Detours cause traffic.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on May 23, 2016, 11:41:12 AM
If it is from the construction then there is not much to do. Detours cause traffic.
So why is it only until James, once you pass the light it suddenly starts moving?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: monkey on May 23, 2016, 11:48:15 AM
I find that the school buses on cross add a nice chunk to the traffic. Every bus stopping to cross the tracks stops slowing the traffic  even when the light is green.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on May 23, 2016, 11:52:06 AM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/05/traffic-fixes-proposed-at-township.html?m=1
Seems that they're proposing a turning lane from cross onto james
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on May 23, 2016, 12:14:00 PM
So why is it only until James, once you pass the light it suddenly starts moving?
Because there is nothing to back them up
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on May 23, 2016, 12:43:55 PM
Because there is nothing to back them up
And until james? The amnt of cars turning onto farady is miniscule amd there's no where else anyone is turning to hold up the traffic... highly doubt the busses stopping by the tracks could be making such a backup...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on May 23, 2016, 12:48:05 PM
The traffic light itself backs things up when there is a high volume of cars.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: my4 on May 23, 2016, 01:04:33 PM
The real issue in that is that Williams has been closed almost every day for weeks on end, causing ridiculous traffic backups on 9 and Cross. I've tried calling the township and just been bounced around. Construction should be forced to happen at night, it's ridiculous that 9 is backed up to 4th st every afternoon to accommodate some private construction.
The real issue is that WE keep building without adding sufficient infrastructure.(or coming up with such pathetic excuses that its a county/state road.=dont approve in the first place.) 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 23, 2016, 01:15:17 PM
The real issue is that WE keep building without adding sufficient infrastructure.(or coming up with such pathetic excuses that its a county/state road.=dont approve in the first place.)
+64k

Instead of normal streets it became ok to build multiple dead end developments.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: monkey on May 23, 2016, 01:38:35 PM
The real issue is that WE keep building without adding sufficient infrastructure.(or coming up with such pathetic excuses that its a county/state road.=dont approve in the first place.)
+10000

This has been bothering me for a long time.

There are a few projects going up on prospect, another project on cross near the 9. What were/are they thinking? Why should they get approval to build in such areas?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on May 23, 2016, 01:47:05 PM
Make your voice heard here: http://lakewoodsmartgrowth.blogspot.com/

[sarcasm font] I'm sure they'll take all valid feedback to heart!! [/end sarcasm font]

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/05/new-website-to-address-lakewood-smart.html?m=1
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on May 23, 2016, 05:14:33 PM
Make your voice heard here: http://lakewoodsmartgrowth.blogspot.com/

[sarcasm font] I'm sure they'll take all valid feedback to heart!! [/end sarcasm font]

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/05/new-website-to-address-lakewood-smart.html?m=1

Looks like a nice blog...hope it remains a nice blog...any idea who is behind it?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yzj on May 24, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
Actually there will be a public hearing on all the changes to route 9 traffic flow in the summer, before the changes go into effect. The State will also want to see the  local elected officials on board with the proposed changes.....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: 4yourinfo on May 24, 2016, 02:58:45 PM
It would definitely help turning from central onto 9 if there is no light from the other side but I cannot understand how they feel this will help overall.
Because it will eliminate the need for a turn signal & then a full green now Central will have a full green light right away so you won't need a green as long therby shortening the red for Route 9....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: sharkky on June 01, 2016, 09:19:28 AM
http://www.vosizneias.com/240166/2016/05/31/new-jersey-lakewood-zoning-board-members-opt-out-of-meetings-because-of-recording-devices/

 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 01, 2016, 09:29:53 AM
http://www.vosizneias.com/240166/2016/05/31/new-jersey-lakewood-zoning-board-members-opt-out-of-meetings-because-of-recording-devices/

 ??? ??? ???
This is awesome!

No more shady business.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on June 01, 2016, 11:33:21 AM
This is awesome!

No more shady business.

+1

This part bothered me:

Quote
Prior to the opening of the March meeting, Board Chairman Abe Halberstam said, “Before we begin tonight’s meeting, I’d just like to warn my fellow board members that we’re being videotaped by a private citizen tonight, so be careful what you say and what you’re going to be saying on the record.”

Oh, and the fact that applicants are choosing to wait.  That's certainly indicative of something.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on June 01, 2016, 11:37:08 AM
+1

This part bothered me:

Oh, and the fact that applicants are choosing to wait.  That's certainly indicative of something.
not necessarily, could just be the penchant for some people to deliberately misconstrue, edit and misrepresent facts and words to further their agenda. 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on June 01, 2016, 11:40:06 AM
not necessarily, could just be the penchant for some people to deliberately misconstrue, edit and misrepresent facts and words to further their agenda. 
Please. It's because they're doing things that would make the public furious. And they;re afraid that people will finally find out what goes on at these meetings.

Yes I know, anyone can go sit through many hours of meetings each month - but people don't have the time. Now with the videos available people have the ability to uncover the scams that these boards are facilitating...and they're petrified!!

Menashe - time to kick these people off the board!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 01, 2016, 11:40:25 AM
not necessarily, could just be the penchant for some people to deliberately misconstrue, edit and misrepresent facts and words to further their agenda.
What are you talking about??
The guy posts the full,unedited videos.

If anything, now nothing can be misconstrued, edited and misrepresented as it always has.

Not to mention the fact that the transcripts af these meetings are supposed to be available anyway. - conveniently the power brokers have total control over that process...  vdl.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 01, 2016, 11:42:27 AM




Menashe - time to kick these people off the board!
You serious??
Who do you think appointed them in the first place?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on June 01, 2016, 11:44:53 AM
not necessarily, could just be the penchant for some people to deliberately misconstrue, edit and misrepresent facts and words to further their agenda.

The entire recording is available on youtube, nothing to be worried about.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on June 01, 2016, 11:47:39 AM
You serious??
Who do you think appointed them in the first place?

I know that he appoints members. And now that the dirty laundry is being aired and it's blatantly obvious that they are doing shady things that they are afraid to do in the public eye - he needs to be pressured to take them off. Transparency...

There shouldn't be anything happening at any of these meetings that the public isn't allowed to hear.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: my4 on June 08, 2016, 08:43:38 AM
The real issue is that WE keep building without adding sufficient infrastructure.(or coming up with such pathetic excuses that its a county/state road.=dont approve in the first place.)
also find it interesting that in a short time three new traffic lights went up on cedarbridge ave(that is a different issue on its own).is this the same "county roads"that it is so difficult to add a traffic light(as pine,prospect ect. are in desperate need of,not three or four way stop signs!=they keep saying its county road....hard to place traffic signal on county roads...)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on June 08, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
also find it interesting that in a short time three new traffic lights went up on cedarbridge ave(that is a different issue on its own).is this the same "county roads"that it is so difficult to add a traffic light(as pine,prospect ect. are in desperate need of,not three or four way stop signs!=they keep saying its county road....hard to place traffic signal on county roads...)
That is probably why all of them went up at the same time.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on June 08, 2016, 10:01:55 AM
also find it interesting that in a short time three new traffic lights went up on cedarbridge ave(that is a different issue on its own).is this the same "county roads"that it is so difficult to add a traffic light(as pine,prospect ect. are in desperate need of,not three or four way stop signs!=they keep saying its county road....hard to place traffic signal on county roads...)

I think the issue with that is that the township has no control over those roads or placing lights there at all, it's up to the county to do it. The county has been known in the past to place lights at intersections where there wasn't great need while ignoring other intersections desperate for a traffic light.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on June 08, 2016, 10:47:25 AM
I think the issue with that is that the township has no control over those roads or placing lights there at all, it's up to the county to do it. The county has been known in the past to place lights at intersections where there wasn't great need while ignoring other intersections desperate for a traffic light.
Like South Lake Dr and Hope? That is in desperate need of not having a light.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: my4 on June 08, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
Like South Lake Dr and Hope? That is in desperate need of not having a light.
maybe can move it up the road to the corner of miller(and hope)?That is in desperate need of a light.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on June 08, 2016, 12:42:43 PM
maybe can move it up the road to the corner of miller(and hope)?That is in desperate need of a light.
with no light at South lake Miller will be fine. It is needed more at fourteenth st
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on June 08, 2016, 01:08:15 PM
also find it interesting that in a short time three new traffic lights went up on cedarbridge ave(that is a different issue on its own).is this the same "county roads"that it is so difficult to add a traffic light(as pine,prospect ect. are in desperate need of,not three or four way stop signs!=they keep saying its county road....hard to place traffic signal on county roads...)
They tried a traffic light at pine and MLK, it just made more problems
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on June 08, 2016, 07:18:22 PM
They tried a traffic light at pine and MLK, it just made more problems
I used to live on that corner, when there was a stop sign on MLK only. there were daily accidents. So depends on how you define problems
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on June 08, 2016, 07:20:52 PM
I used to live on that corner, when there was a stop sign on MLK only. there were daily accidents. So depends on how you define problems
Was there anything better with a traffic light over the 3 way stop?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on June 08, 2016, 08:12:34 PM
Was there anything better with a traffic light over the 3 way stop?
I left town before all that
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on June 08, 2016, 08:13:52 PM
Was there anything better with a traffic light over the 3 way stop?
They never actually had a traffic light. They used a crossing guard to simulate the timing of a traffic light. It was reportedly a disaster
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on June 08, 2016, 08:27:40 PM
They never actually had a traffic light. They used a crossing guard to simulate the timing of a traffic light. It was reportedly a disaster
No they had a temporary traffic light
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on June 08, 2016, 08:28:29 PM
No they had a temporary traffic light
I stand corrected. Either way I think the three way stop is better
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 08, 2016, 09:32:20 PM
I left town before all that
Good for you
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on June 08, 2016, 10:03:51 PM
Good for you
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on June 08, 2016, 10:45:40 PM
But now I'm going to miss Lil Wayne
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 21, 2016, 03:54:27 PM
Howe many duplexes can you count???    ::)


Quote
6. NEW BUSINESS

Appeal # 3947 – Elad Gebus, Oakland Street & Cherry Street, Block 189 Lots 128, 180 & 181
                           R-10 zone.    4 duplexes
Appeal # 3949 – Moshe Blech, 135 Forest Drive, Block 12.01 Lot 8.  To construct a single
                            Family home with variance requested for side yard setback; required 10 & 15 –
                            Proposed 10 & 5.
Appeal # 3950 – Yechezkal Eider, Forest Drive, Block 12.01 Lot 24. To construct a single
                            family home with variance requested for side yard setback required 10 & 15 –
                            proposed 10 & 5.
Appeal # 3952 – Lakewood Investment, LLC, James Street, Block 344 Lots 1.01 & 1.02.  Use
                            variance for duplex housing.
Appeal # 3955 – Obed Gonzalez, Florence St. & Evergreen Blvd. Block 1093 Lot 10, B-5 zone.
                             Use variance to construct a duplex.
Appeal # 3958 – Success Homes Capital, Pine Street, Block 855.01 Lots 21, 34.03, 36 & 37,
                            M-2 & R-20 zone.  Use variance to construct 8 single family homes.
Appeal # 3959 – Moshe Lankry – 409 1st Street, Block 73 Lot 6, R-OP Zone. Use variance for
                            4 family house.
Appeal # 3961 – Tower Builders, 415 E. 5th Street, Block 236 Lot 19, R-7.5 zone. Proposed
                            duplex on an undersized lot – required 10,000 square feet – proposed 9,888. 
Appeal # 3964 – Madison Holdings, LLC, Block 236 Lots 23 & 24, R-7.5 Use variance for
                            triplex.
Appeal # 3965 – D & L Management, East County Line Road, Block 104.02 Lot 9, OT Zone. 
                            Use variance to construct stacked townhomes.
Appeal # 3960 – Brookside Equities, Cherry Street, Block 189 Lots 135 & 168, R-10 zone.                    To construct a duplex on a 10,722 square foot lot where 12,000 is required.
Appeal # 3970 – Success Homes Capital, 800 E. County Line Road, Block 226 Lot 1- R-10
                            Zone.  To construct a duplex on an undersized lot – required 12,000 – proposed
                            9,926. Requesting subdivision for zero lot line.
Appeal # 3966 – Newport Estate, LLC, Newport & Bellevue Avenue, Block 496 Lot 2, Block
                            498 Lots 1 & 10 and Block 501 Lot 1.01, R-40 zone.  To construct single
                            family homes using the R-12 requirements.
Appeal# 3874AA – Rishon Associates, LLC, Block 490 Lots 6, 9 & 41.   Amend site plan for
                            building coverage of 35% where 30% is allowed.
Appeal # 3967 – Congregation Maalos Hatorah, Chestnut Street, Block 1159 and 1159.04
                            various lots. Use variance and preliminary and final major subdivision for the
                            construction of duplex housing units with basement apartment and synagogue.
Appeal # 3968 – David Donner, Block 189 Lots 173 & 175, 603-605 Ocean Avenue, R-10
                            zone.  Use variance for 2 duplexes and a single family home.
Appeal # 3973 – Evelyn Vago, 1536 Prospect Street, Block 490 Lot 7, M-1 zone.  Use variance
                            to construct 3 duplexes

RESOLUTIONS

Appeal # 3585A, letter from Ms. Weinstein requesting conditions of a resolution be modified. 
Appeal #3936 - Mordechai Zafrani – 464 Manetta Avenue, Block 236 Lot 12, R-10 zone. 
Resolution to deny a use variance to construct a duplex on a 9,000 square foot lot where 12,000
is required.
Appeal # 3962 - David Donner, 825 East End Avenue, Block 208 Lot 175, R-10 zone.  Resolution to approve the construction of a duplex. Side yard setback variance requested for 7 ½ feet where 10 feet is required.
Appeal # 3840 – Finchley Holdings, amended resolution to move a/c units from the rear to the side of the building.
Appeal # 3963 – Mordechai Eichorn, 85 Williams Street, Block 420.01 Lot 28, R-7.5 and
Hospital Support Zone.  Resolution to approve a subdivision to construct 2 single family homes.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on June 21, 2016, 03:58:31 PM
Howe many duplexes can you count???    ::)


That was last nights Zoning meeting. Here's tonight's Planning meeting:

Quote
SP 2161 TJ Realty Enterprise, LLC
 River Avenue Block 430, Lot 10.01
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a building addition
2. SD 2118 Yehoshua Frenkel
 River Avenue Block 534, Lot 7
Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create fourteen lots
3. SP 2165 Yehoshua Frenkel
 River Avenue Block 534, Lot 7
 Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for an office building
4. SP 2171 Excel Corporate Park IA, LLC
 Prospect Street Block 411, Lot 82
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a proposed industrial building
5. SD 2127 47 Linden, LLC
 Linden Avenue Block 189.02, Lot 170
Minor Subdivision to create two lots
6. SD 2129 Miriam Klein
 Miller Road Block 12, Lot 201
Minor Subdivision to create two lots
7. SD 2130 New Central Properties, LLC
 New Central Avenue Block 11, Lot 1.17
Minor Subdivision to create two lots
8. SP 2172 Center 101, LLC
 Clifton Avenue Block 90, Lot 9
Denial of Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for an office and retail building
9. SP 2173 Congregation Birchas Yaakov
 Ridge Avenue Block 186.03, Lot 1.07, 1.09, & 1.10
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a new school building
10. SD 2024A Prospect 54, LLC
 Prospect Street Block 411, Lots 30, 35, 36, 40, & 43
Amended Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create 79 lots
11. SP 2183AA Yeshivas Ohr Olam
 Cross Street Block 499, Lot 1
Denial of a Change of Use/Site Plan Exemption to convert existing dwelling into a
school
12. SD 2057A Avenue of the States, LLC
 Avenue of the States Block 961, Lot 2.01
Amended Minor Subdivision to create three lots
13. SP 2128A Avenue of the States, LLC
 Avenue of the States Block 961, Lot 2.01 (Proposed Lot 2.02)
Amended Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a 3-story office building
14. SP 2178 Cheder Masores Hatorah
 Bellinger Street Block 804, Lot 2
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a school
15. SP 2184 Yeshiva Shaarei Orah
 Albert Avenue Block 1159, Lots 76 & 77
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a school
16. SP 2179 Yeshiva Philip Hirth Academy, Inc.
 Oak Street Block 1151, Lot 1
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a school
17. SP 2129 Mesivta Nezer Hatorah
 Vine Avenue Block 1123, Lots 1 & 8
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a school

5. PUBLIC HEARING
1. SD 2125 Mark Properties, LLC
 Providence Avenue Block 1051.09, Lot 4
Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create 5 lots
2. SP 2176 Cedarbridge Equity, LLC
 Boulevard of the Americas Block 961, Lot 2.01
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan and Minor Subdivision for an office building
3. SD 2135 Congregation Kol Aryeh of Lakewood, Inc.
 Hope Chapel Road Block 26, Lots 8 & 8.01
Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create 3 lots and a cul-de-sac
4. SP 2180 Congregation Somerset Walk
 Canary Drive Block 830 & 830.04, Lots 1.06 & 30.01
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for an addition to an existing synagogue
5. SD 2136 Aaron Finkelstein
 Somerset Ave Block 189.31, Lot 153
Minor Subdivision to create 2 lots
6. SD 2137 Jediedjah Moshe Rodrigues Pereira
 East County Line Road Block 186.04, Lots 6 & 7
Minor Subdivision to create 3 lots
7. SD 2138 10 James Street Associates, LLC
 James Street Block 416, Lots 5-7
Minor Subdivision to create 4 lots
8. SD 2123 Thomas Rosenberg
 Highgrove Crescent Block 223, Lots 4 & 83.03
Minor Subdivision to create 3 lots
9. SP 2188AA Yeshiva Ohr Olam
 Cross Street and Newport Ave Block 499, Lot 1
Change of Use/Site Plan Exemption to convert an existing house to a school
10. SP 2062 Yeshiva Ruach Hatorah
 Ridge Avenue Block 189.03, Lot 35
Extension of a Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a school
11. SD 2076 Joan Hertz
 Miller Road Block 11.01, Lots 3.01 & 4.08
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to realign lot lines
12. SD 2051 Lakewood Associates, LP
 New Hampshire Avenue Block 1600, Lot 5
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create two lots
13. SD 2078 Nathan Lowinger
 Park Terrace Block 208, Lot 152
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create two lots
14. SD 1977 Shimshon Bandman
 Linden Avenue Block 189.01, Lot 189
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create three lots
15. SD 2028 Michael & Rivka Wenger
 Princeton Avenue Block 147, Lot 1
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create two fee-simple duplex lots
16. SD 1963 Nachman Taub
 Read Place Block 855.02, Lot 26
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create two lots
17. SD 1949 Aaron Finkelstein
 Congress Street & Bruce Street Block 250, Lots 2-5
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create six fee-simple duplex lots
18. SD 1983 Hendi Friedman
 Towers Street Block 855.03, Lot 25
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create two lots
19. SD 2063 Eli Schwab
 Joe Parker Road Block 189.16, Lot 157
Extension of a Minor Subdivision to create three lots
20. SD 2119 1495 East Spruce, LLC
 East Spruce Street Block 855.01, Lots 26 & 29
 Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create seven lots
Applicant failed to submit revised plans in time for this meeting. This application
will not be heard.
21. SP 2181 River 1161, LLC
 River Avenue Block 1064, Lot 4
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for an addition to an existing grocery store
Plan revisions did not satisfactorily address the previous technical review meeting
and review letter. As such this project will be carried to a later meeting date and
this application will not be heard.
22. SD 2117 Yechezkel Pam
 New Central Avenue Block 11.02, Lots 9, 10, & 27
Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create 5 lots
Applicant has requested to carry this project to a later meeting date. This
application will not be heard.
23. SD 2133 David Birnbaum
 Ocean Avenue Block 249, Lots 10 & 11
Minor Subdivision to create 4 lots
Applicant has requested to carry this project to a later meeting date. This
application will not be heard.
24. SD 2134 Linda Wajsbort
 Hudson Street Block 108, Lots 3 & 15
Minor Subdivision to create 3 lots
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on June 21, 2016, 04:30:14 PM
Stacked townhouses is the worst thing there...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Crazy tools on June 26, 2016, 10:07:44 AM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/06/26/lakewood-goes-luxe/85952252/

Finally a positive article about Lakewood.
They're bipolar, one day the whole Lakewood is on food stamps the next day we're all billionaires!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Ydad on June 26, 2016, 10:12:14 AM
What's the stirah?   :D
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 10:41:46 AM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/06/26/lakewood-goes-luxe/85952252/

Finally a positive article about Lakewood.
They're bipolar, one day the whole Lakewood is on food stamps the next day we're all billionaires!
There are definitely lots of millionaires. - maybe 20% of the community.
60% are poor/ living off food stamps etc. And 20% are the suffering middle class. 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: beeweegee on June 26, 2016, 10:50:06 AM
There are definitely lots of millionaires. - maybe 20% of the community.
60% are poor/ living off food stamps etc. And 20% are the suffering middle class.
Source?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on June 26, 2016, 10:54:13 AM
There are definitely lots of millionaires. - maybe 20% of the community.

That sounds like an insanely high number.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 11:06:05 AM
That sounds like an insanely high number.
Start by counting the MCmansions..

A millionaire means net assets of over 1 mill. Not 20 mm.
There are hundreds of them.

How many Lakewood businesses are worth more than 1MM? The owners are millionaires in my book.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: beeweegee on June 26, 2016, 11:15:03 AM
Start by counting the MCmansions..

A millionaire means net assets of over 1 mill. Not 20 mm.
There are hundreds of them.

How many Lakewood businesses are worth more than 1MM? The owners are millionaires in my book.
Maybe there are hundreds of them, but you think if you walk through the entire town, every fifth house will be a millionaire? No chance.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on June 26, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
Start by counting the MCmansions..

A millionaire means net assets of over 1 mill. Not 20 mm.
There are hundreds of them.

How many Lakewood businesses are worth more than 1MM? The owners are millionaires in my book.

1. Million dollar home does not necessarily mean a million dollars net worth.
2. There are probably more than 10,000 families in Lakewood so 20% of that would be at least 2k millionaires. Which is far higher than your estimates.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: beeweegee on June 26, 2016, 11:35:34 AM
1. Million dollar home does not necessarily mean a million dollars net worth.
2. There are probably more than 10,000 families in Lakewood so 20% of that would be at least 2k millionaires. Which is far higher than your estimates.
Lol, too often, the mansion is the reason why they aren't millionaires.  :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 11:37:27 AM
Wyvr, AK really has to stop touting stuff this as the success of BMG.

It is so distasteful and wrong.



http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=03060441258294997005
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 12:00:21 PM
Lol, too often, the mansion is the reason why they aren't millionaires.  :)
Even amongst the non mansions, because of the RE balloon, there are many on-paper milionairs...

Many ppl in Lakewood got into homes at ~400k + own one as an investment, and they have now appreciated so much that they are worth way more than 1MM (Net)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on June 26, 2016, 12:01:49 PM
1. Million dollar home does not necessarily mean a million dollars net worth.
2. There are probably more than 10,000 families in Lakewood so 20% of that would be at least 2k millionaires. Which is far higher than your estimates.
Just FTR there are probably closer to 20K families in Lakewood.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
1. Million dollar home does not necessarily mean a million dollars net worth.
2. There are probably more than 10,000 families in Lakewood so 20% of that would be at least 2k millionaires. Which is far higher than your estimates.
Ok, even if I trim my number to a more realistic 10%, it is still way higher than the rest of the country bh
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on June 26, 2016, 12:14:57 PM
Ok, even if I trim my number to a more realistic 10%, it is still way higher than the rest of the country bh

You think Lakewood has more millionaire households per capita than all other frum communities?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 12:33:57 PM
You think Lakewood has more millionaire households per capita than all other frum communities?
Dunno.
It's definitely one of the most entrepreneurial of the frum communities... similar to Willi and bk.

Very different than the OT communities where ppl are happy with a nice proffesionl salary


Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on June 26, 2016, 12:35:27 PM
That's certainly true.  I think a of communities have shifted to less 9-5 positions and more entrepreneurial pursuits though.  Especially the most recent generation.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on June 26, 2016, 03:03:35 PM
Dunno.
It's definitely one of the most entrepreneurial of the frum communities... similar to Willi and bk.

Very different than the OT communities where ppl are happy with a nice proffesionl salary

Very true.
Lakewood has a lower cost of living than most communities and less professionals/college graduates than (most?) other frum communities. All that adds up to higher rates of self-employment/entrepreneurship.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 26, 2016, 03:25:44 PM
Very true.
Lakewood has a lower cost of living than most communities and less professionals/college graduates than (most?) other frum communities. All that adds up to higher rates of self-employment/entrepreneurship.
And the successful entrepreneurs are millionaires
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Crazy tools on June 29, 2016, 06:24:36 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/06/26/lakewood-goes-luxe/85952252/

Finally a positive article about Lakewood.
They're bipolar, one day the whole Lakewood is on food stamps the next day we're all billionaires!
Starting to think that the app wrote this article cuz they new this fbi raid was coming and needed to write a positive article before the storm, this way avoiding all the people that say they only say bad stuff...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: username on June 30, 2016, 09:32:45 AM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/06/26/lakewood-goes-luxe/85952252/

Finally a positive article about Lakewood.
They're bipolar, one day the whole Lakewood is on food stamps the next day we're all billionaires!
...but I would take anything a tax assesor says with a large box of salt!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Crazy tools on June 30, 2016, 09:53:51 PM
http://www.app.com/story/opinion/readers/2016/06/30/letter-state-pay-private-school-busing/86578790/
This paper is crazy....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on July 01, 2016, 02:19:25 AM
Wyvr, AK really has to stop touting stuff THIS as the success of BMG.

It is so distasteful and wrong.



http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=03060441258294997005
"This"??
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 11:38:06 AM
How do you explain the 6+ Duplexes for rent available in cedarwood hills?

Is this investors who cannot sell, or buyers who cannot afford the mortgage?

Either way the bubble is confirmed imho.

http://masaumatan.com/MasaRentals.pdf
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on July 06, 2016, 11:55:01 AM
How do you explain the 6+ Duplexes for rent available in cedarwood hills?

Is this investors who cannot sell, or buyers who cannot afford the mortgage?

Either way the bubble is confirmed imho.

http://masaumatan.com/MasaRentals.pdf
Did you notice that none of them are available yet? The owner hasn't even closed on it.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 11:59:10 AM
Did you notice that none of them are available yet? The owner hasn't even closed on it.
So?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on July 06, 2016, 12:08:55 PM
So?
They are houses bought with the intention of renting them out at first. How does that show a bubble regarding sales?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: HowYaDoin on July 06, 2016, 12:10:21 PM
They are houses bought with the intention of renting them out at first. How does that show a bubble regarding sales?
+1 and of course they list before they close, they want a tenant from day 1. Some people also buy with intention of living in basement at first, happens all the time in this town
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on July 06, 2016, 12:15:10 PM
How do you explain the 6+ Duplexes for rent available in cedarwood hills?

Is this investors who cannot sell, or buyers who cannot afford the mortgage?

Either way the bubble is confirmed imho.

http://masaumatan.com/MasaRentals.pdf
I agree there is a bubble, but this is far from proof. Every time a new development is built there are multiple units available for rent, as many people buy while planning to live in their own basements. The question is how many houses will still be available to rent there in a few weeks from now
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on July 06, 2016, 06:23:15 PM
There are also developers/investors who keep a few houses for themselves, which they rent out, and then they "break even" tax wise on the project.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 08:15:12 PM
There are also developers/investors who keep a few houses for themselves, which they rent out, and then they "break even" tax wise on the project.
"Tax wise"?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 08:18:04 PM
How do you explain the 6+ Duplexes for rent available in cedarwood hills?

Is this investors who cannot sell, or buyers who cannot afford the mortgage?

Either way the bubble is confirmed imho.

http://masaumatan.com/MasaRentals.pdf
Means nothing. There may be a huge surge in appartments, but there is also a huge amount of people moving in. These apartments move fast.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on July 06, 2016, 08:18:46 PM
"Tax wise"?
On the books. Under the table they're raking it in.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 08:25:13 PM
Means nothing. There may be a huge surge in appartments, but there is also a huge amount of people moving in. These apartments move fast.
I'm talking upstairs units for rent.

I didn't even mention the dozens of apartments for rent...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on July 06, 2016, 08:52:39 PM
I'm talking upstairs units for rent.

I didn't even mention the dozens of apartments for rent...
Many people buy but don't plan on moving upstairs immediately.  This way they're paying the mortgage down till they feel the need to move up
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 09:00:41 PM
I'm talking upstairs units for rent.

I didn't even mention the dozens of apartments for rent...
Still plenty of people moving into Lakewood, who wish to rent untill they find a place to buy. And plenty of people who like renting in general. You'll see the bubble when prices become abnormally low.
Currently lakewood has a 14 year rental rate (where you rent the house for 14 years and make enough to cover the price of the house ((but not the mortgage))) which is very long for an average market, but its always been like that. When it hits 16 you'll know we're in trouble.
Also if the price of house stops climbing (meaning house bought this year stay the same price for many years) then many house owners expecting the rent to cover a large amount of the mortgage will never get enough.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 09:03:21 PM
Many people buy but don't plan on moving upstairs immediately.  This way they're paying the mortgage down till they feel the need to move up
Right, cuz the cannot afford not to rent it out. = Taking out a mortgage way out of their league
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yitzf on July 06, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
On the books. Under the table they're raking it in.
I know is fun to bash but that has nothing to do with it.

 The cost to build the rental units goes into the cost of the project but if they don't sell the units then they don't recognise that revenue. For example if they build 10 units and it costs $3 each and they can sell for $5, if they sell all they make $20 profit ($50 revenue less $30 cost). But it they sell only 7 then they still have a cost of $30 but only revenue of $35 for a $5 profit.
I'm not saying it's legit, but it has nothing to do with money under the table.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: cholent on July 06, 2016, 09:05:17 PM
Right, cuz the cannot afford not to rent it out. = Taking out a mortgage way out of their league
Not necessarily. Many choose to save money by continuing to live in a basement as long as feasible even when they own a house. I personally know many who have done this. I'm surprised you don't.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 09:07:21 PM
I know is fun to bash but that has nothing to do with it.

 The cost to build the rental units goes into the cost of the project but if they don't sell the units then they don't recognise that revenue. For example if they build 10 units and it costs $3 each and they can sell for $5, if they sell all they make $20 profit ($50 revenue less $30 cost). But it they sell only 7 then they still have a cost of $30 but only revenue of $35 for a $5 profit.
I'm not saying it's legit, but it has nothing to do with money under the table.
That simply brings in the money slower, and charges the taxes slower, which is good for people who get large tax deductions (like for giving charity). I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on July 06, 2016, 09:09:08 PM
I know is fun to bash but that has nothing to do with it.

 The cost to build the rental units goes into the cost of the project but if they don't sell the units then they don't recognise that revenue. For example if they build 10 units and it costs $3 each and they can sell for $5, if they sell all they make $20 profit ($50 revenue less $30 cost). But it they sell only 7 then they still have a cost of $30 but only revenue of $35 for a $5 profit.
I'm not saying it's legit, but it has nothing to do with money under the table.
Who said it's illegitimate? They're making money in the rentals, while keeping the projects profit tax free. Nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 09:10:27 PM
Right, cuz the cannot afford not to rent it out. = Taking out a mortgage way out of their league
I know someone who plans on buying land, building a duplex, living in a single basement, and renting out the rest. He's backed by relatives who dont have money on hand, but can bail him out in case of emergency (aka buy it off him), which makes the mortgage not out of his league.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 09:11:37 PM
On the books. Under the table they're raking it in.

Who said it's illegitimate? They're making money in the rentals, while keeping the projects profit tax free. Nothing wrong with that.
That was a fast turn around. Playing devils advocate arn't you?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on July 06, 2016, 09:13:11 PM
That was a fast turn around. Playing devils advocate arn't you?
I have nothing against people playing around to keep their revenue as tax free as possible. Never did. When the loophole or workaround is legal, all the better.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 09:19:02 PM
Not necessarily. Many choose to save money by continuing to live in a basement as long as feasible even when they own a house. I personally know many who have done this. I'm surprised you don't.
I do know a few. All of them are not saving, simply cannot afford the mortgage .
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yitzf on July 06, 2016, 09:36:33 PM
Who said it's illegitimate? They're making money in the rentals, while keeping the projects profit tax free. Nothing wrong with that.
You gotta speak to an accountant about that. I would think that you would need to capitalize and depreciate the rentals and not expense them.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on July 06, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
I know is fun to bash but that has nothing to do with it.

 The cost to build the rental units goes into the cost of the project but if they don't sell the units then they don't recognise that revenue. For example if they build 10 units and it costs $3 each and they can sell for $5, if they sell all they make $20 profit ($50 revenue less $30 cost). But it they sell only 7 then they still have a cost of $30 but only revenue of $35 for a $5 profit.
I'm not saying it's legit, but it has nothing to do with money under the table.
This is what I meant.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Ydad on July 06, 2016, 11:46:06 PM
Means nothing. There may be a huge surge in appartments, but there is also a huge amount of people moving in. These apartments move fast.
-1. The rental market is 👎. I know more than a few guys with apartments just sitting around. And rent in new rentals are totally down.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 11:53:25 PM


You gotta speak to an accountant about that. I would think that you would need to capitalize and depreciate the rentals and not expense them.

These developments are probably structured to be RE investors as opposed to dealers.( Cap gains vs regular IT) The owners of the LLC's are the investors not the builders.

So you are correct that they would be taking depreciation, not inventory write offs..
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 10, 2016, 04:01:05 PM

-------THE CHAVER FUND-----
GOLF AND NETWORKING EVENT
*************MENU**********

Cocktails 5:30 PM
Reception 6:30 PM

Full Open Bar

Waiters to serve Butler Style a Selection of the Following
Mini Meat Kibbe
Lahma Bagine
Sesame Chicken Fingers
Mini Frank in Blanket
Mushroom Empanada
Mini Eggrolls
Mini Potato Cigars
Served with Appropriate Condiments

Sushi Bar, Hand Rolled by Authentic Japanese Sushi Chef
Variety of sushi to include Tuna, Salmon, California Roll, and all Vegetable Rolls.  Served with soy sauce, hot yellow and green mustard, Japanese horseradish and a variety of dipping sauces.
 
Asian Station
Sweet and Sour Chicken
Vegetable Lo Mein
Beef and Broccoli
Fried Rice
 
To be Served Buffet Style
 
Meat Carving
Our chefs will carve and grill to order:
Whole New England Turkey
Flintstone Dinosaur Ribs
Maple Pineapple Glazed Corned Beef
Standing Rib Roast
Rack of Veal
Roasted Duck
Surprise Steak
To Be Served with Whole Grain Mustard, Horseradish Aoili, Chipole Pepper Tapenade, Green Peppercorn Mustard, Cranberry Apricot Chutney
And Sauce Béarnaise
Accompanied by Toast Points and Appropriate Condiments
 
Sushi Bar, Hand Rolled by Authentic Japanese Sushi Chef
Variety of sushi to include Tuna, Salmon, California Roll, and all Vegetable Rolls.  Served with soy sauce, hot yellow and green mustard, Japanese horseradish and a variety of dipping sauces.
 
Sushi Pizza
Thin Crust
Topped with a Variety of Fishes (Salmon, Tuna, Kani and Yellow Tail), Vegetables (Peppers, Avocados, Sweet Potato, and Carrots),
and Sauces (Spicy Mayo And Sweet Sauce)
Served with:
Seaweed Salad
Kani Salad
Spicy Sesame Salad
 
 Taco A La Carte
Pulled Beef Taco
Classic Beef Taco
Lamb Taco
Chicken Avocado Taco
Served with Pineapple Radish Salsa
 
Short Rib Station
Jack Daniels Braised Short Ribs
Hickory Smoked Barbeque Short Ribs
Honey Roasted Short Ribs
On a bed of Exotic Mushroom Rice
Served in a Canoe
 
Pasta Station
Sautéed to Order
Mushroom Ravioli with Hearty Pomedoro sauce
Artichoke Ravioli with Mushroom Sage Sauce
Beef Tortilini in Truffle Oil and Garlic
 
Spring Roll Station
Pastrami Spring Roll
BBQ Beef Spring Roll
Tongue Spring Roll
Served with Appropriate Condiments
 
Steak A La Carte
Served Behind Lucite Cases
Pepper Crusted Medallion Steak Set
with Truffle Fries and Grilled Green Tomatoes
Rib Steak with Peter Lugar Potatoes and Caramelized Onions
Baby Chicken Steak with Ramekin of Creamed Spinach
Veal Marsala Served with Thinly Sliced Potatoes
 
 Meat A La Carte
Glazed Seared Duck Breast
Sliced over Black Rice with Onions and Mushrooms
London Broil
Sliced and Served Over Mashed Potatoes and Sauteed Greens
Pepper Crusted Steak
Served with Asparagus and Cauliflower Puree
 
Chicken A La Carte
Chicken Roulade
with a Portobello Mushroom Stuffing and Wrapped in a Slice of Zucchini
BBQ Chicken Ceasar's Salad
Chicken Marsala
Standing Chicken Drums
Served with Dipping Sauce
 
Antipasto Station
Candied Beets with Sugared Pecans and Almonds
Red and White Quinoa Salad
Chunky Israeli Salad
Spinach Salad with Roasted Yams and Walnuts
Avocado with Hearts of Palm and Cherry Tomatoes
Kale with Roasted Chick Peas and Avocado
 
Middle Eastern Grill Station
Pounded Beef Skewer
Pounded Baby Chicken Skewer
Grilled Vegetable Skewer
Set with Mini Pita, Zaatar Chips, Tehina and Israeli Salad
 
 Charcuterie Board
Maple Pineapple Glazed Corned Beef
Romanian Pastrami
Pepper Encrusted Steak
Beef Jerky
Balsamic Glazed Turkey
Mexican Peppered Turkey
Dried Beef Salami
Garlic Salami
Mushu Duck with Scallion
Chorizo
Sliced Frank in Blanket - Full Size
Sliced Sweet Italian Sausage En Croute-Poppy Seeds
Sliced Jamaican Style Jerk Chicken Sausage En Croute-Black Sesame Seeds
Bratwurst Sausage with Sesame Seeds
 
Set with:
Hot Wild Mushroom Gravy
 
Accompanied by:
Pickled Cherry Peppers, Gulden's Spicy Brown Mustard,
Whole Grain French Mustard, Green Olives
Cranberry Sauce, Horseradish Cream Sauce and Crunchy Toasted Baguettes

 
-------Sweet Conclusions-------
 

 
Gelato Bar
 
Assorted Cookies
 
Assorted Chocolates
 
Syrian Pastries
 
Peanut Butter Mousse
Trifle Mousse
 
Hot Dessert Station
Individual Chocolate Hot Molten Soufflé
Hot Apple Crisp
Served with
Parve Vanilla Ice Cream
 
Elaborate and Exotic Fruit Table
To Include Select and Seasonal Fruits
 
Coffee Station
Freshly Brewed Regular and Decaffeinated Coffee
A Variety of Herbal Teas
Served with Swizzle Sticks
 
TO GO STATION
Freshly Brewed Regular and Decaffeinated Coffee
A Variety of Herbal Teas
Grilled Fruit (mango, Pineapple, Peach etc..)
served with Ice Cream
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 10, 2016, 04:42:51 PM
What's the chaver fund?



And how do I get invited?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: flyingace on July 10, 2016, 05:30:36 PM
-------THE CHAVER FUND-----
GOLF AND NETWORKING EVENT
*************MENU**********

Cocktails 5:30 PM
Reception 6:30 PM

Full Open Bar

Waiters to serve Butler Style a Selection of the Following
Mini Meat Kibbe
Lahma Bagine
Sesame Chicken Fingers
Mini Frank in Blanket
Mushroom Empanada
Mini Eggrolls
Mini Potato Cigars
Served with Appropriate Condiments

Sushi Bar, Hand Rolled by Authentic Japanese Sushi Chef
Variety of sushi to include Tuna, Salmon, California Roll, and all Vegetable Rolls.  Served with soy sauce, hot yellow and green mustard, Japanese horseradish and a variety of dipping sauces.
 
Asian Station
Sweet and Sour Chicken
Vegetable Lo Mein
Beef and Broccoli
Fried Rice
 
To be Served Buffet Style
 
Meat Carving
Our chefs will carve and grill to order:
Whole New England Turkey
Flintstone Dinosaur Ribs
Maple Pineapple Glazed Corned Beef
Standing Rib Roast
Rack of Veal
Roasted Duck
Surprise Steak
To Be Served with Whole Grain Mustard, Horseradish Aoili, Chipole Pepper Tapenade, Green Peppercorn Mustard, Cranberry Apricot Chutney
And Sauce Béarnaise
Accompanied by Toast Points and Appropriate Condiments
 
Sushi Bar, Hand Rolled by Authentic Japanese Sushi Chef
Variety of sushi to include Tuna, Salmon, California Roll, and all Vegetable Rolls.  Served with soy sauce, hot yellow and green mustard, Japanese horseradish and a variety of dipping sauces.
 
Sushi Pizza
Thin Crust
Topped with a Variety of Fishes (Salmon, Tuna, Kani and Yellow Tail), Vegetables (Peppers, Avocados, Sweet Potato, and Carrots),
and Sauces (Spicy Mayo And Sweet Sauce)
Served with:
Seaweed Salad
Kani Salad
Spicy Sesame Salad
 
 Taco A La Carte
Pulled Beef Taco
Classic Beef Taco
Lamb Taco
Chicken Avocado Taco
Served with Pineapple Radish Salsa
 
Short Rib Station
Jack Daniels Braised Short Ribs
Hickory Smoked Barbeque Short Ribs
Honey Roasted Short Ribs
On a bed of Exotic Mushroom Rice
Served in a Canoe
 
Pasta Station
Sautéed to Order
Mushroom Ravioli with Hearty Pomedoro sauce
Artichoke Ravioli with Mushroom Sage Sauce
Beef Tortilini in Truffle Oil and Garlic
 
Spring Roll Station
Pastrami Spring Roll
BBQ Beef Spring Roll
Tongue Spring Roll
Served with Appropriate Condiments
 
Steak A La Carte
Served Behind Lucite Cases
Pepper Crusted Medallion Steak Set
with Truffle Fries and Grilled Green Tomatoes
Rib Steak with Peter Lugar Potatoes and Caramelized Onions
Baby Chicken Steak with Ramekin of Creamed Spinach
Veal Marsala Served with Thinly Sliced Potatoes
 
 Meat A La Carte
Glazed Seared Duck Breast
Sliced over Black Rice with Onions and Mushrooms
London Broil
Sliced and Served Over Mashed Potatoes and Sauteed Greens
Pepper Crusted Steak
Served with Asparagus and Cauliflower Puree
 
Chicken A La Carte
Chicken Roulade
with a Portobello Mushroom Stuffing and Wrapped in a Slice of Zucchini
BBQ Chicken Ceasar's Salad
Chicken Marsala
Standing Chicken Drums
Served with Dipping Sauce
 
Antipasto Station
Candied Beets with Sugared Pecans and Almonds
Red and White Quinoa Salad
Chunky Israeli Salad
Spinach Salad with Roasted Yams and Walnuts
Avocado with Hearts of Palm and Cherry Tomatoes
Kale with Roasted Chick Peas and Avocado
 
Middle Eastern Grill Station
Pounded Beef Skewer
Pounded Baby Chicken Skewer
Grilled Vegetable Skewer
Set with Mini Pita, Zaatar Chips, Tehina and Israeli Salad
 
 Charcuterie Board
Maple Pineapple Glazed Corned Beef
Romanian Pastrami
Pepper Encrusted Steak
Beef Jerky
Balsamic Glazed Turkey
Mexican Peppered Turkey
Dried Beef Salami
Garlic Salami
Mushu Duck with Scallion
Chorizo
Sliced Frank in Blanket - Full Size
Sliced Sweet Italian Sausage En Croute-Poppy Seeds
Sliced Jamaican Style Jerk Chicken Sausage En Croute-Black Sesame Seeds
Bratwurst Sausage with Sesame Seeds
 
Set with:
Hot Wild Mushroom Gravy
 
Accompanied by:
Pickled Cherry Peppers, Gulden's Spicy Brown Mustard,
Whole Grain French Mustard, Green Olives
Cranberry Sauce, Horseradish Cream Sauce and Crunchy Toasted Baguettes

 
-------Sweet Conclusions-------
 

 
Gelato Bar
 
Assorted Cookies
 
Assorted Chocolates
 
Syrian Pastries
 
Peanut Butter Mousse
Trifle Mousse
 
Hot Dessert Station
Individual Chocolate Hot Molten Soufflé
Hot Apple Crisp
Served with
Parve Vanilla Ice Cream
 
Elaborate and Exotic Fruit Table
To Include Select and Seasonal Fruits
 
Coffee Station
Freshly Brewed Regular and Decaffeinated Coffee
A Variety of Herbal Teas
Served with Swizzle Sticks
 
TO GO STATION
Freshly Brewed Regular and Decaffeinated Coffee
A Variety of Herbal Teas
Grilled Fruit (mango, Pineapple, Peach etc..)
served with Ice Cream
We have totally lost our minds!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on July 10, 2016, 06:38:43 PM
-------THE CHAVER FUND-----
GOLF AND NETWORKING EVENT
*************MENU**********

Cocktails 5:30 PM
Reception 6:30 PM

Full Open Bar

Waiters to serve Butler Style a Selection of the Following
Mini Meat Kibbe
Lahma Bagine
Sesame Chicken Fingers
Mini Frank in Blanket
Mushroom Empanada
Mini Eggrolls
Mini Potato Cigars
Served with Appropriate Condiments

Sushi Bar, Hand Rolled by Authentic Japanese Sushi Chef
Variety of sushi to include Tuna, Salmon, California Roll, and all Vegetable Rolls.  Served with soy sauce, hot yellow and green mustard, Japanese horseradish and a variety of dipping sauces.
 
Asian Station
Sweet and Sour Chicken
Vegetable Lo Mein
Beef and Broccoli
Fried Rice
 
To be Served Buffet Style
 
Meat Carving
Our chefs will carve and grill to order:
Whole New England Turkey
Flintstone Dinosaur Ribs
Maple Pineapple Glazed Corned Beef
Standing Rib Roast
Rack of Veal
Roasted Duck
Surprise Steak
To Be Served with Whole Grain Mustard, Horseradish Aoili, Chipole Pepper Tapenade, Green Peppercorn Mustard, Cranberry Apricot Chutney
And Sauce Béarnaise
Accompanied by Toast Points and Appropriate Condiments
 
Sushi Bar, Hand Rolled by Authentic Japanese Sushi Chef
Variety of sushi to include Tuna, Salmon, California Roll, and all Vegetable Rolls.  Served with soy sauce, hot yellow and green mustard, Japanese horseradish and a variety of dipping sauces.
 
Sushi Pizza
Thin Crust
Topped with a Variety of Fishes (Salmon, Tuna, Kani and Yellow Tail), Vegetables (Peppers, Avocados, Sweet Potato, and Carrots),
and Sauces (Spicy Mayo And Sweet Sauce)
Served with:
Seaweed Salad
Kani Salad
Spicy Sesame Salad
 
 Taco A La Carte
Pulled Beef Taco
Classic Beef Taco
Lamb Taco
Chicken Avocado Taco
Served with Pineapple Radish Salsa
 
Short Rib Station
Jack Daniels Braised Short Ribs
Hickory Smoked Barbeque Short Ribs
Honey Roasted Short Ribs
On a bed of Exotic Mushroom Rice
Served in a Canoe
 
Pasta Station
Sautéed to Order
Mushroom Ravioli with Hearty Pomedoro sauce
Artichoke Ravioli with Mushroom Sage Sauce
Beef Tortilini in Truffle Oil and Garlic
 
Spring Roll Station
Pastrami Spring Roll
BBQ Beef Spring Roll
Tongue Spring Roll
Served with Appropriate Condiments
 
Steak A La Carte
Served Behind Lucite Cases
Pepper Crusted Medallion Steak Set
with Truffle Fries and Grilled Green Tomatoes
Rib Steak with Peter Lugar Potatoes and Caramelized Onions
Baby Chicken Steak with Ramekin of Creamed Spinach
Veal Marsala Served with Thinly Sliced Potatoes
 
 Meat A La Carte
Glazed Seared Duck Breast
Sliced over Black Rice with Onions and Mushrooms
London Broil
Sliced and Served Over Mashed Potatoes and Sauteed Greens
Pepper Crusted Steak
Served with Asparagus and Cauliflower Puree
 
Chicken A La Carte
Chicken Roulade
with a Portobello Mushroom Stuffing and Wrapped in a Slice of Zucchini
BBQ Chicken Ceasar's Salad
Chicken Marsala
Standing Chicken Drums
Served with Dipping Sauce
 
Antipasto Station
Candied Beets with Sugared Pecans and Almonds
Red and White Quinoa Salad
Chunky Israeli Salad
Spinach Salad with Roasted Yams and Walnuts
Avocado with Hearts of Palm and Cherry Tomatoes
Kale with Roasted Chick Peas and Avocado
 
Middle Eastern Grill Station
Pounded Beef Skewer
Pounded Baby Chicken Skewer
Grilled Vegetable Skewer
Set with Mini Pita, Zaatar Chips, Tehina and Israeli Salad
 
 Charcuterie Board
Maple Pineapple Glazed Corned Beef
Romanian Pastrami
Pepper Encrusted Steak
Beef Jerky
Balsamic Glazed Turkey
Mexican Peppered Turkey
Dried Beef Salami
Garlic Salami
Mushu Duck with Scallion
Chorizo
Sliced Frank in Blanket - Full Size
Sliced Sweet Italian Sausage En Croute-Poppy Seeds
Sliced Jamaican Style Jerk Chicken Sausage En Croute-Black Sesame Seeds
Bratwurst Sausage with Sesame Seeds
 
Set with:
Hot Wild Mushroom Gravy
 
Accompanied by:
Pickled Cherry Peppers, Gulden's Spicy Brown Mustard,
Whole Grain French Mustard, Green Olives
Cranberry Sauce, Horseradish Cream Sauce and Crunchy Toasted Baguettes

 
-------Sweet Conclusions-------
 

 
Gelato Bar
 
Assorted Cookies
 
Assorted Chocolates
 
Syrian Pastries
 
Peanut Butter Mousse
Trifle Mousse
 
Hot Dessert Station
Individual Chocolate Hot Molten Soufflé
Hot Apple Crisp
Served with
Parve Vanilla Ice Cream
 
Elaborate and Exotic Fruit Table
To Include Select and Seasonal Fruits
 
Coffee Station
Freshly Brewed Regular and Decaffeinated Coffee
A Variety of Herbal Teas
Served with Swizzle Sticks
 
TO GO STATION
Freshly Brewed Regular and Decaffeinated Coffee
A Variety of Herbal Teas
Grilled Fruit (mango, Pineapple, Peach etc..)
served with Ice Cream

Date/location?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: norma on July 10, 2016, 07:55:58 PM
Date/location?

https://birdeasepro.com/Event/Register/3805
GIYF
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on July 10, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
What's the chaver fund?



And how do I get invited?
DDMS
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 10, 2016, 09:06:57 PM
It's for Detroit guys night kollel!!

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 11, 2016, 11:48:32 AM

These developments are probably structured to be RE investors as opposed to dealers.( Cap gains vs regular IT) The owners of the LLC's are the investors not the builders.

So you are correct that they would be taking depreciation, not inventory write offs..
ETA
If they are actually classified as RE Dealers, they would be subject to SE tax on the rental income!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 12, 2016, 10:53:14 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160712/8153734003929e5f615d792b33b4bd89.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on July 12, 2016, 10:54:24 AM
Gashmius. Lakewood is in a race to beat Flatbush and Queens.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 12, 2016, 03:29:54 PM
Gashmius. Lakewood is in a race to beat Flatbush and Queens.
As I heard one woman say recently: "when mashiach comes, il go but my house is coming with!"


Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on July 12, 2016, 03:46:11 PM
Gashmius. Lakewood is in a race to beat Flatbush and Queens.
Looks like Deal, actually.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: skyguy918 on July 12, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Gashmius. Lakewood is in a race to beat Flatbush and Queens.
Queens?! Lol, guess you've never been to Queens.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 12, 2016, 04:35:23 PM
Queens?! Lol, guess you've never been to Queens.
+1
Lakewood is setting the trends these days
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: skyguy918 on July 12, 2016, 04:37:41 PM
+1
Lakewood is setting the trends these days
I mostly meant that Queens and Flatbush do not belong in the same sentence.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 12, 2016, 07:35:11 PM
I mostly meant that Queens and Flatbush do not belong in the same sentence.
Maybe he thinks the 5T (Lawrence) is in queens
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on July 12, 2016, 07:36:33 PM
Maybe he thinks the 5T (Lawrence) is in queens

I didn't think all that deeply into what I wrote.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: moko on July 12, 2016, 08:21:03 PM
We have totally lost our minds!
ehh
I see this at engagement parties all the time
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 12, 2016, 08:49:44 PM
ehh
I see this at engagement parties all the time
Lol really? In Lakewood?

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on July 12, 2016, 08:53:31 PM
I was davening maariv in a newish development last night. I can count one hand how many people weren't wearing hats and jackets, but I can also count how many people didn't pull out smartphones.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Ydad on July 12, 2016, 09:17:35 PM
I was davening maariv in a newish development last night. I can count one hand how many people weren't wearing hats and jackets, but I can also count how many people didn't pull out smartphones.
People with flip phones aren't pulling 'em out. Not much going on on them dumbphones.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: TimT on July 12, 2016, 09:44:38 PM
Lol really? In Lakewood?
Well, aren't 10-20% millionaires? :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 12, 2016, 09:46:59 PM
Well, aren't 10-20% millionaires? :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on July 12, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
That simply brings in the money slower, and charges the taxes slower, which is good for people who get large tax deductions (like for giving charity). I'm fine with that.
While one gets a federal tax deduction for charitable contributions, NJ doesn't allow for a charitable deduction on NJ taxes.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: elit on July 12, 2016, 10:51:21 PM
Gashmius. Lakewood is in a race to beat Flatbush and Queens.
Uhmmm queens??
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on July 12, 2016, 10:52:27 PM
Uhmmm queens??
Don't worry, all of us queens people are confused.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: moko on July 13, 2016, 12:28:49 AM
Lol really? In Lakewood?
na
Usually syrian house parties in brooklyn and deal
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: flyingace on July 13, 2016, 08:40:26 AM
ehh
I see this at engagement parties all the time
Also lost our minds there!!!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 13, 2016, 06:24:08 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160713/4108c33c69b1b89c878c8efceb9e3339.jpg)

Grab them while they're hot !
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: regular on July 13, 2016, 09:38:51 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160713/4108c33c69b1b89c878c8efceb9e3339.jpg)

Grab them while they're hot !
Eeewwww
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2016, 03:01:54 PM
It's fascinating how all of a sudden Agudas Yisroel of America is becoming increasingly involved in the Lakewood political scene.

I'm referring to the recent blockbusting and busing sagas.

In the past I dont recall Aguda being involved in anything Lakewood related. The roshei yeshiva/ vaad ran the show.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on August 03, 2016, 03:31:11 PM
It's fascinating how all of a sudden Agudas Yisroel of America is becoming increasingly involved in the Lakewood political scene.

I'm referring to the recent blockbusting and busing sagas.

In the past I dont recall Aguda being involved in anything Lakewood related. The roshei yeshiva/ vaad ran the show.

They have been slowly getting involved in NJ politics and it is much safer for them to be the public political face. Weren't they R Aharon's political arm?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2016, 03:44:09 PM
They have been slowly getting involved in NJ politics and it is much safer for them to be the public political face. Weren't they R Aharon's political arm?
I'm not so certain that Bmg/rak is pulling the strings. Probably, but could be that this is agudas initiative to become relevant+ Avi schnall.
I can't imagine the vaad is happy...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on August 03, 2016, 04:24:32 PM
I'm not so certain that Bmg/rak is pulling the strings. Probably, but could be that this is agudas initiative to become relevant+ Avi schnall.
I can't imagine the vaad is happy...
I am under the impression that there is RAK involvement and that it is Agudas initiative to become relevant. I think the Vaad realizes that they have become somewhat toxic and are happy get some nitty gritty aspects off their plate as long as they still get their perks.

BTW when I wrote R Aharon i meant the RY ZTL
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on August 03, 2016, 04:45:36 PM
I am under the impression that there is RAK involvement and that it is Agudas initiative to become relevant. I think the Vaad realizes that they have become somewhat toxic and are happy get some nitty gritty aspects off their plate as long as they still get their perks.

BTW when I wrote R Aharon i meant the RY ZTL
I didn't know there was another
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on August 03, 2016, 04:49:02 PM
1)Moreinu Rosh Hayeshiva Rav Aharon Kotler Zatzal
2)R' Aaron Kotler, CEO
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
1)Moreinu Rosh Hayeshiva Rav Aharon Kotler Zatzal
2)R' Aaron Kotler, CEO
He's president these days
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2016, 04:52:52 PM
Agudah is allowed to endorse political candidates right?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on August 03, 2016, 06:25:18 PM
Agudah is allowed to endorse political candidates right?
I don't believe so... they're allowed to lobby and make clear who's positions they feel benefit the klal but to endorse and say vote for whomever is not allowed, they're officially a religious organization
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 08, 2016, 12:05:22 AM
 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/449185/chabad-find-homes-in-lakewood.html

Mark my words, there's gonna be a lag beomer parade down forest one day ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 23, 2016, 11:33:45 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160824/41a30ac391ee4dd1f99ada54fa335df3.jpg)

Seriously, lech lecha?!?

Am I the only one who finds the marketing off?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 23, 2016, 11:44:37 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160824/41a30ac391ee4dd1f99ada54fa335df3.jpg)

Seriously, lech lecha?!?

Am I the only one who finds the marketing off?
How about the spelling of the community name in the subtitle?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2016, 12:37:55 PM
It's a huge chutzpa. Chasiddim came to Lakewood, which was a welcoming Litveshe town. And now they make chassidic exclusive communities inside Lakewood.

הגם לכבוש את המלכה עימי בבית?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on August 24, 2016, 01:12:47 PM
Did anyone prevent anyone from buying anywhere? It's illegal.

Plenty of non-Belzers for instance in the multiple Belz developments.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on August 24, 2016, 01:13:37 PM
It's a huge chutzpa. Chasiddim came to Lakewood, which was a welcoming Litveshe town. And now they make chassidic exclusive communities inside Lakewood.

הגם לכבוש את המלכה עימי בבית?

If the current rate of Chassidish growth in Lakewood continues and accelerates, it will indeed be conquered...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ChAiM'l on August 24, 2016, 01:15:33 PM
It's a huge chutzpa. Chasiddim came to Lakewood, which was a welcoming Litveshe town.And now they make chassidic exclusive communities inside Lakewood.

הגם לכבוש את המלכה עימי בבית?

"which was a welcoming Litveshe town."

LOL
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: username on August 24, 2016, 01:17:51 PM
It's a huge chutzpa. Jews came to Lakewood, which was a welcoming Goyishe town. And now they make Jewish exclusive communities inside Lakewood.

הגם לכבוש את המלכה עימי בבית?
FTFY
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on August 24, 2016, 01:24:58 PM
It's a huge chutzpa. Chasiddim came to Lakewood, which was a welcoming Litveshe town. And now they make chassidic exclusive communities inside Lakewood.

הגם לכבוש את המלכה עימי בבית?
Just when you hear of non jews complaining about the jews taking over you now know how they feel.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: moko on August 24, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Just when you hear of non jews complaining about the jews taking over you now know how they feel.
+1000
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 24, 2016, 02:52:57 PM
Just when you hear of non jews complaining about the jews taking over you now know how they feel.
Let me tell you how I feel when driving by lawn signs that say "Tom's River strong" - (aka Jews stay in the gettho).
I feel like I'm almost wearing a yellow star.

It is crazy but surreal that in the great USA we have NO JEW streets.

Noone is even paying attention imho.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: moko on August 24, 2016, 03:04:11 PM
Let me tell you how I feel when driving by lawn signs that say "Tom's River strong" - (aka Jews stay in the gettho).
I feel like I'm almost wearing a yellow star.

It is crazy but surreal that in the great USA we have NO JEW streets.

Noone is even paying attention imho.
seems like Baruch wouldn't mind a " no hasids street"
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2016, 03:13:56 PM
seems like Baruch wouldn't mind a " no hasids street"
Huh? You totally missed my point.
I have no problem with chassidim moving in.
My problem is that it's being a sanz community, excluding other people.


BTW, I totally get the non Jews not wanting the Jews to take over their neighborhoods. Look what we did to Lakewood. It's a congestion nightmare. Also we stick to our own, who wants neighbors that don't socialize with them and only socializes with their own kind.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on August 24, 2016, 03:15:50 PM
Huh? You totally missed my point.
I have no problem with chassidim moving in.
My problem is that it's being a sanz community, excluding other people.


BTW, I totally get the non Jews not wanting the Jews to take over their neighborhoods. Look what we did to Lakewood. It's a congestion nightmare. Also we stick to our own, who wants neighbors that don't socialize with them and only socializes with their own kind.
So go buy a house in thier development. I'm sure if you gave it a try they'll let you buy, or if not with out to much work you can force them to sell.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: moko on August 24, 2016, 03:16:44 PM
Huh? You totally missed my point.
I have no problem with chassidim moving in.
My problem is that it's being a sanz community, excluding other people.


BTW, I totally get the non Jews not wanting the Jews to take over their neighborhoods. Look what we did to Lakewood. It's a congestion nightmare. Also we stick to our own, who wants neighbors that don't socialize with them and only socializes with their own kind.
so you feel that Lakewood is a chutzpah and now Sanz went and had that same chutzpah back to Lakewood,
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2016, 03:19:39 PM
so you feel that Lakewood is a chutzpah and now Sanz went and had that same chutzpah back to Lakewood,
No. If Lakewood would have opened up "Kiryas Jews" it would be a chutzpa.
What don't you understand?!


Theyre opening up a community for Sanzers, that I am not welcome to, and I'm gonna have to sit in traffic for them  And they're gonna bloodsuck the infrastructure that was built by litvaks. Disgusting!

You wanna build houses for everyone? Go right ahead. Don't build sect specific communities!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2016, 03:29:54 PM
So go buy a house in thier development. I'm sure if you gave it a try they'll let you buy, or if not with out to much work you can force them to sell.
The point is their coming to a community that was built by livaks. And opening inside of it a community exclusive for Sanzers.
If I can fight and get in is beside the point.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on August 24, 2016, 03:40:21 PM
The point is their coming to a community that was built by livaks. And opening inside of it a community exclusive for Sanzers.
If I can fight and get in is beside the point.
Can you explain a little better what your issue is? if you want to live in the community I'm sure you'll be able to. you want them to live apart from each other just so they can't be a tight-knit community?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on August 24, 2016, 04:03:29 PM
They are marketing it that way because they want the people to come. I'm sure they'll sell to anyone no problem.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: moko on August 24, 2016, 05:07:08 PM
No. If Lakewood would have opened up "Kiryas Jews" it would be a chutzpa.
What don't you understand?!


Theyre opening up a community for Sanzers, that I am not welcome to, and I'm gonna have to sit in traffic for them  And they're gonna bloodsuck the infrastructure that was built by litvaks. Disgusting!

You wanna build houses for everyone? Go right ahead. Don't build sect specific communities!
BMG builds plenty of tax free homes for their people only.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 24, 2016, 05:26:23 PM
BMG builds plenty of tax free homes for their people only.
such as?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on August 24, 2016, 07:11:25 PM
They are marketing it that way because they want the people to come. I'm sure they'll sell to anyone no problem.
+1
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: good sam on August 24, 2016, 07:24:48 PM
They are marketing it that way because they want the people to come. I'm sure they'll sell to anyone no problem.
Oh I'm suuuuure. Nooooo problem
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Mordyk on August 24, 2016, 09:54:16 PM
Let me tell you how I feel when driving by lawn signs that say "Tom's River strong" - (aka Jews stay in the gettho).
I feel like I'm almost wearing a yellow star.

It is crazy but surreal that in the great USA we have NO JEW streets.

Noone is even paying attention imho.
I just drove by a couple of these today.  Was tempted to go ask if their selling ;D
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: good sam on August 24, 2016, 10:04:37 PM
Let me tell you how I feel when driving by lawn signs that say "Tom's River strong" - (aka Jews stay in the gettho).
I feel like I'm almost wearing a yellow star.

It is crazy but surreal that in the great USA we have NO JEW streets.

Noone is even paying attention imho.
Same as "Preserve Ramapo" in Monsey.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 24, 2016, 10:57:48 PM
Same as "Preserve Ramapo" in Monsey.
Yup.

And the standard mantra that ppl say
"Well I understand them cuz Jews have large families and strange customs etc" doesn't make it any better.

Is it now ok that Jews were herded into ghettos not too long ago? Do you "understand" the anti semites??

The hatred is obviously because we stick it in their eyes (McMansions, political power...) instead of laying low.. vd"l

/Rant
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on August 24, 2016, 11:48:27 PM
Yup.

And the standard mantra that ppl say
"Well I understand them cuz Jews have large families and strange customs etc" doesn't make it any better.

Is it now ok that Jews were herded into ghettos not too long ago? Do you "understand" the anti semites??

The hatred is obviously because we stick it in their eyes (McMansions, political power...) instead of laying low.. vd"l

/Rant

+75%, McMansions help give them an excuse but the hatred is there already.

My other point is that someone who says that it's 100% wrong for the non jews to not want the jews to move in, can't be upset that the chasidim are moving in. It would simply be hypocritical.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 25, 2016, 12:15:52 AM
It's called gentrification. While not in its classical form all of the demographic shifts in towns and neighborhoods are a form of gentrification. Once the momentum is there, there's nothing to stop it. The big difference for us is that we are much more community dependent than Goyim are. We need local schools to match השקפה, and more importantly we need some basic institutions within WALKING distance. All of which is why frum yidden are seen moving into towns and neighborhoods as a herd. Which others can perceive as threatening.

However, when the gentrification works the other way,  as someone living in such a community, I can tell you that the main concern is affordability for the next generation and for like minded people, and second concern is the overall atmosphere of the community.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Jkhein on August 25, 2016, 01:00:58 AM
Let me tell you how I feel when driving by lawn signs that say "Tom's River strong" - (aka Jews stay in the gettho).
I feel like I'm almost wearing a yellow star.

It is crazy but surreal that in the great USA we have NO JEW streets.

Noone is even paying attention imho.
Look who's talking, @CBC, with all due respect, you sound just like them and have the same inner hatred towards one group of jews, just like they have towards all of us - pretty obvious from your posts every time you bump this thread.
It's a huge chutzpa. Chasiddim came to Lakewood, which was a welcoming Litveshe town. And now they make chassidic exclusive communities inside Lakewood.

הגם לכבוש את המלכה עימי בבית?
Welcoming?? have a look at page 1 in this thread - from our dear cbc
Just to clear up the shtreimal questions. Up until ~ 15 years ago there was an (un)official takana in Bmg not to bring a shtreimal into the Beis medrash.
The effect of this was that for the most part, people only wore shtreimals at home, Bmg was the center of the community.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on August 25, 2016, 01:21:46 AM


Look who's talking, @CBC.
Welcoming?? have a look at page 1 in this thread - from our dear cbc

That's hardly proof.  He was stating fact.  For all you know cbc wears a shtreimel
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on August 25, 2016, 04:22:56 AM
This discussion is all well and good but who's gonna address the real elephant in the room in respect to the future of Lakewood?

I'm talking about the fact that the Chief Rabbi of New York got cramp-inducing shilshul from a week-old mac and cheese at Seasons. Who's dealing with that?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on August 25, 2016, 06:23:49 AM
I'm talking about the fact that the Chief Rabbi of New York got cramp-inducing shilshul from a week-old mac and cheese at Seasons. Who's dealing with that?
Can we please get back to the racist attitudes? I love this thread.  :)
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 25, 2016, 07:30:55 AM
Look who's talking, @CBC, with all due respect, you sound just like them and have the same inner hatred towards one group of jews, just like they have towards all of us - pretty obvious from your posts every time you bump this thread.Welcoming?? have a look at page 1 in this thread - from our dear cbc
Ok, please link specific post that reveal "my inner hatred" il be able to better respond.

As for this one ,@ thaber took care of it. Fyi I wear a פלאטשיגע ביבר היט
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on August 25, 2016, 08:33:44 AM
Ok, please link specific post that reveal "my inner hatred" il be able to better respond.

As for this one ,@ thaber took care of it. Fyi I wear a פלאטשיגע ביבר היט

Now everything makes sense.

I always envisioned you as a BMG shluch with a big messy bears and a beat up hat....
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2016, 10:45:09 AM
I am probably the only one here who lived in Lakewood over 30 years ago. Lakewood was very welcoming to chassidim.
There weren't that many. Rav Osher Chaim Lieberman was 1 of the 4 poskim in Yeshiva. The streimal policy is overblown. The Chassidim were loved and respected members of the community.

Lakewood believe it or not used to be a lovely peaceful town.



I have nothing against chassidim moving here

My only problem was creating a chassidic exclusive community.

If the Litvaks that originally occupied Lakewood wouldn't have been Ahavas Chinam type people, the Chassidim would have never came. (Just like there has yet to be a Litvak in KJ).
 
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on August 25, 2016, 11:03:13 AM
I am probably the only one here who lived in Lakewood over 30 years ago. Lakewood was very welcoming to chassidim.
There weren't that many. Rav Osher Chaim Lieberman was 1 of the 4 poskim in Yeshiva. The streimal policy is overblown. The Chassidim were loved and respected members of the community.

Lakewood believe it or not used to be a lovely peaceful town.



I have nothing against chassidim moving here

My only problem was creating a chassidic exclusive community.

If the Litvaks that originally occupied Lakewood wouldn't have been Ahavas Chinam type people, the Chassidim would have never came. (Just like there has yet to be a Litvak in KJ).
 

They have indeed been very welcoming and therefore I promise you that you can buy in any development.

P.S. I'm not going to go into what it's said that the Roshei Yeshiva sent to Satmar after they started planning their development a while ago.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Jkhein on August 25, 2016, 11:26:57 AM
The streimal policy is overblown
What do you mean by overblown?
Interesting that I have yet to hear of any community or yeshivah with a similar policy the other way around, not even an overblown one.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: regular on August 25, 2016, 11:32:07 AM
P.S. I'm not going to go into what it's said that the Roshei Yeshiva sent to Satmar after they started planning their development a while ago.
What did they send them?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on August 25, 2016, 11:37:03 AM
What did they send them?
He's repeating hearsay that he doesn't want to get into,  so I'm sure he won't answer.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on August 25, 2016, 11:38:55 AM


Interesting that I have yet to hear of any community or yeshivah with a similar policy the other way around, not even an overblown one.
ha,  try moving to KJ or NS and wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on August 25, 2016, 11:51:27 AM
He's repeating hearsay that he doesn't want to get into,  so I'm sure he won't answer.

Yup
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 25, 2016, 12:03:12 PM
ha,  try moving to KJ or NS and wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
Forget about jeans and T-shirt. How about a developer setting up a development for Yeshivish crowd in KJ or NS, would that fly?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 25, 2016, 12:12:36 PM
What do you mean by overblown?
Interesting that I have yet to hear of any community or yeshivah with a similar policy the other way around, not even an overblown one.
It is overblown. It had to do with tzuras hayeshiva, and it wasn't official policy. AND it came from Rav Aharon, so be careful when accusing it to be a שנאה thing
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Shauly101 on August 25, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
to talk about the Belz Development let me clarify

only their first Development was officially only Belz and even there The Belzer Rabbi Shlit''a advised them to sell 10 houses to non-belzers

the 2nd and 3rd has an even larger non-belzer crowd and from there its not even belz developments anymore aka Meadows @ Locust which they sold to whoever gave them $$$
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on August 25, 2016, 12:55:54 PM




the 2nd and 3rd has an even larger non-belzer crowd and from there its not even belz developments anymore aka Meadows @ Locust which they sold to whoever gave them $$$
My brother lives in meadows and there is a nice amount of litvish there. But that being said, i dont think it was built with the same exclusion mind set as much as these new ones.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Shauly101 on August 25, 2016, 01:15:15 PM
My brother lives in meadows and there is a nice amount of litvish there. But that being said, i dont think it was built with the same exclusion mind set as much as these new ones.

meadows i meant were they are still on paper here
https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B002'47.4%22N+74%C2%B012'52.6%22W/@40.0464977,-74.2155328,375m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d40.046496!4d-74.214614
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 25, 2016, 02:42:41 PM
It is overblown. It had to do with tzuras hayeshiva, and it wasn't official policy. AND it came from Rav Aharon, so be careful when accusing it to be a שנאה thing
Might it have been consistent with http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sjvf8cxm2oQ/UWXRCOBRraI/AAAAAAABRfQ/Uy_yZwIVXtU/s1600/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%A8+%D7%A9%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%90%D7%99.jpg
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: username on August 25, 2016, 02:47:51 PM
Chabad wears shtreimels?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 25, 2016, 06:53:01 PM
Chabad wears shtreimels?
Generally not. I meant to use the url for the entire page, where it says that the same applied to Amshinov. http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?m=1

In any event, the point I was bringing that there might have been a negative attitude towards some communities/minhagim.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 26, 2016, 02:16:46 PM
IIRC, the 'No Shtrimels' in BMG, was not so much because the litvaks didnt want them. It was more of a credit to the chsiddim who understood that it just didn't 'pas' to bring one into BMG. (At that time)
To be taken with a huge grain of salt, due to anonymity of poster and site where it posted, but see: http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?showComment=1365885028809&m=1#c7410261230055464808 and http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?showComment=1365712227440&m=1#c8791681691085555109

The point is that there seems to be evidence that RAK had a "problem" with Chassidim.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 26, 2016, 04:00:04 PM
To be taken with a huge grain of salt, due to anonymity of poster and site where it posted, but see: http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?showComment=1365885028809&m=1#c7410261230055464808 and http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?showComment=1365712227440&m=1#c8791681691085555109

The point is that there seems to be evidence that RAK had a "problem" with Chassidim.
Wow, you went there??

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on August 26, 2016, 08:20:02 PM
To be taken with a huge grain of salt, due to anonymity of poster and site where it posted, but see: http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?showComment=1365885028809&m=1#c7410261230055464808 and http://bshch.blogspot.com/2013/04/70_10.html?showComment=1365712227440&m=1#c8791681691085555109

The point is that there seems to be evidence that RAK had a "problem" with Chassidim.
עס פאסט נישט for you,  and I don't even know you.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: zh cohen on August 28, 2016, 04:45:36 PM
עס פאסט נישט for you,  and I don't even know you.

Wow, you went there??

Are you disputing the truth of the comments, or are you just upset to hear information that doesn't fit with your world -view?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: thaber on August 28, 2016, 04:51:30 PM
Are you disputing the truth of the comments, or are you just upset to hear information that doesn't fit with your world -view?
Are those the only two choices?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 28, 2016, 07:16:00 PM
Are you disputing the truth of the comments, or are you just upset to hear information that doesn't fit with your world -view?
Which information doesn't fit a world view?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yitzgold on August 28, 2016, 09:05:05 PM
Wow, you went there??
I once heard from a talmid of RAK that he only had a problem with Chabad and Breslov
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 28, 2016, 09:14:04 PM
I once heard from a talmid of RAK that he only had a problem with Chabad and Breslov
And the problem was...?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 28, 2016, 09:58:21 PM
I once heard from a talmid of RAK that he only had a problem with Chabad and Breslov
Of course he did.
The issue with "going there" is when ppl bring in the other side's wacky kooky conspiracy theories...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 28, 2016, 09:59:29 PM
And the problem was...?
Maybe you haven't been here long enough... but that thread is locked.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: gozalim on August 28, 2016, 10:49:50 PM
and it wasn't official policy. AND it came from Rav Aharon, so be careful when accusing it to be a שנאה thing
I once heard from a talmid of RAK that he only had a problem with Chabad and Breslov
...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on August 29, 2016, 01:24:00 AM
...
He had major problems with Chabad's leaders, as did the Brisker Rav. Every one knows this.

What does that have to do with chassidim?

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on September 08, 2016, 07:32:43 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160908/bb5f1438e99e4cc4ec44e05ed4cd8011.jpg)

Basically the five towns
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on September 08, 2016, 07:44:28 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160908/bb5f1438e99e4cc4ec44e05ed4cd8011.jpg)

Basically the five towns
And soon Brick too
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on September 08, 2016, 11:01:46 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160908/bb5f1438e99e4cc4ec44e05ed4cd8011.jpg)

Basically the five towns
Note how all places in the ad are in Lakewood. Chesnut, summerset, 14th street and westgate.
And soon Brick too
Brick is more built up already to be able to "take over" and is also a beach town.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 27, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
Any shoe store that sells Halbe-Shich (shoes that people who wear white socks on Shabbos wear)?

The future is here!!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: yelped on October 27, 2016, 09:20:36 PM
The future is here!!
Lol. Lakewood DO?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 27, 2016, 09:23:17 PM
Lol. Lakewood DO?
I am assuming Halbe-Shich & Shtreimel is the dress code for it. ;D
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 27, 2016, 10:31:56 PM
I am assuming Halbe-Shich & Shtreimel is the dress code for it. ;D
Lakewood dress code?? Nah, Everything goes!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 28, 2016, 12:44:55 PM
Lakewood dress code?? Nah, Everything goes!
You write this, but
Any shoe store that sells Halbe-Shich (shoes that people who wear white socks on Shabbos wear)?
Is what makes you say
The future is here!!
from someone who wears a reckle?
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 28, 2016, 01:28:03 PM
Not sure what you are saying.

I am just saying that everything goes.
Halbe shich, halbe pant, halbe skirts, jeans, fracks, etc etc etc
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 28, 2016, 02:08:15 PM
See here for important discussion regarding Take Back Lakewood

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=67445.new#new

Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2017, 12:22:41 PM
Evergreen non Jewish female cashier's Purim attire.

Smh
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2017, 11:18:12 AM
Camp () is blasting out the kol isha music for blocks and blocks again.

Real tznius

Beautiful!!
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on August 03, 2017, 11:20:54 AM
Camp () is blasting out the kol isha music for blocks and blocks again.

Real tznius

Beautiful!!
Did anyone say anything to the staff? It is a very distinct possibility that they do not realize how far it travels.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2017, 11:22:17 AM
Did anyone say anything to the staff? It is a very distinct possibility that they do not realize how far it travels.
No way they don't realize...
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: aygart on August 03, 2017, 11:27:19 AM
No way they don't realize...
Sometimes people don't realize things because they didn't give the possibility an ounce of thought.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: zh cohen on August 03, 2017, 09:48:29 PM
Sometimes people don't realize things because they didn't give the possibility an ounce of thought.

This. Especially in camp when (at least in my experience) everyone feels like they are in a different world
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on August 03, 2017, 10:04:22 PM
This. Especially in camp when (at least in my experience) everyone feels like they are in a different world
Please, this is rediculous. It's a massive institutional breach of the basic elements of tznius.
Every beis yaakov graduate should not even think twice about this..
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on August 03, 2017, 11:11:52 PM
Please, this is rediculous. It's a massive institutional breach of the basic elements of tznius.
Every beis yaakov graduate should not even think twice about this..
Can't comment on the specifics, but unfortunately the overall level of sensitivity to yiddishe eidelkeit (and by extension, it starts affecting tznius) is just not what it used to be.
Title: Re: The Future of Lakewood
Post by: zh cohen on August 03, 2017, 11:59:44 PM
Please, this is rediculous. It's a massive institutional breach of the basic elements of tznius.
Every beis yaakov graduate should not even think twice about this..

Not saying it's ok, and I agree that they should have noticed. Just suggested that if someone points it out to them I assume/hope that they will be grateful do something about it