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DansDeals Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 04:23:23 AM

Title: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 04:23:23 AM
I've been surfing the DDF sea for a while now and am yet to find a thread that deals with a topic so close to my heart. Laining is a finely honed art that must be discussed amongst our fellow brethren. I open the floor to those that would like to discuss the following topics:
1) Shinuy Nuschyos; there are many variances amongst different prints of chumashim regarding trop, nekudos, sof aliyos and rarely, spelling.
2) Corrections/mistakes; as a baal koreh for many years there at many times that I come across a mistake that is unfortunately quite common.
3) Halochos/Minhagim; what do you do when you find a mistake on the Torah? What makes the sefer possul? Tallis when you lain? do you use a yad?
4) I'm not sure about this but maybe we can coordinate jobs in shuls if they are available. I know personally that I'm asked many times if I could lain somewhere but I'm already booked. This may be a good place to share those jobs.
5) Stories and anecdotes; interesting places you've lained, interesting Torah's you have lained from.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: srap on January 04, 2016, 04:54:50 AM
Sounds like a great thread to read and super networking one, too.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on January 04, 2016, 09:14:00 AM
Nice thread
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on January 04, 2016, 09:35:50 AM
קטנתי
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: emak on January 04, 2016, 09:37:36 AM
Professional friend looking for steady job in Lakewood (Down the 9/ Pine area). PM me if you know of a Shul looking.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Moshe123 on January 04, 2016, 09:38:23 AM
קטנתי

Revi'i in my community vs azla geireish in many others.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Jm1248 on January 04, 2016, 09:46:19 AM
Great thread. I have been asked many times to take over for someone, but rarely can I do it. And vice versa. I need someone to take over for me occasionally and its never easy finding someone.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 04, 2016, 10:03:07 AM
קטנתי
ולא תתורו
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 10:40:31 AM
ולא תתורו
These are quite famous but just last week someone corrected me when I said בכל נפלאותי with a קמץ under the ת. In other חומשים it has a פתח. I actually have a list of all of the differences that I've found so far since בראשית. Maybe I'll put it in the wiki.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 10:42:26 AM
Great thread. I have been asked many times to take over for someone, but rarely can I do it. And vice versa. I need someone to take over for me occasionally and its never easy finding someone.
PM me with your location I know of a friend who has an agency for baalei Kria. He mainly does chabad houses and crown heights shuls, but if it is in walking distance he may be able to help.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: username on January 04, 2016, 10:43:02 AM
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=43337.msg863012#msg863012
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 10:46:12 AM
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=43337.msg863012#msg863012
I want to keep this thread serious. It's not in JS and id like to keep it that way. (Btw BH this minhag of כאלה is getting more and more extinct)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on January 04, 2016, 10:49:28 AM
These are quite famous but just last week someone corrected me when I said בכל נפלאותי with a קמץ under the ת. In other חומשים it has a פתח. I actually have a list of all of the differences that I've found so far since בראשית. Maybe I'll put it in the wiki.
A friend of mine told me he was once in Torah Vodaas and R Belsky was laining. Someone corrected something which he said differently than in the chumash and he paused, thought for a second, shook his head no and continued without correcting.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 04, 2016, 10:55:02 AM
These are quite famous but just last week someone corrected me when I said בכל נפלאותי with a קמץ under the ת. In other חומשים it has a פתח. I actually have a list of all of the differences that I've found so far since בראשית. Maybe I'll put it in the wiki.
A friend of mine told me he was once in Torah Vodaas and R Belsky was laining. Someone corrected something which he said differently than in the chumash and he paused, thought for a second, shook his head no and continued without correcting.
I wouldn't change it either, AFAIK you're not supposed to go back if there's no difference in meaning, especially if said a Shem after the mistake already. (Same issue like אֶת & אֵתׁ - Es & Eis. Much more prevalent in Chassidish Shuls)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 11:01:40 AM
I wouldn't change it either, AFAIK you're not supposed to go back if there's no difference in meaning, especially if said a Shem after the mistake already. (Same issue like אֶת & אֵתׁ - Es & Eis. Much more prevalent in Chassidish Shuls)
My grandfather zol zein gezunt lained for the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe and was told to go back even for a mistake in trop and definitely for a mistake in nekudos.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on January 04, 2016, 11:07:45 AM
I want to keep this thread serious. It's not in JS and id like to keep it that way. (Btw BH this minhag of כאלה is getting more and more extinct)
it is??
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 11:10:08 AM
it is??
At least in chabad shuls. And so it should its a minhag shtus that violates halacha, the decorum required during Kria and is disrespectful to the BK.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on January 04, 2016, 11:12:01 AM
My grandfather zol zein gezunt lained for the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe and was told to go back even for a mistake in trop and definitely for a mistake in nekudos.
Even after shem 'ה
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 04, 2016, 11:13:14 AM
My grandfather zol zein gezunt lained for the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe and was told to go back even for a mistake in trop and definitely for a mistake in nekudos.
I'm talking about Hamon Am, the Lubavither Rebbe probably had a deeper understanding and needed the Leining to be 100%, but the general person that starts screaming for Es and Eis doesn't understand the Peirush of most of the Parsha anyway.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: chaimmayer on January 04, 2016, 12:14:46 PM
There is a Baal korei in my shul who has a smart practice when he makes a mistake and said Shem H'.
He reads the rest of the posuk quietly to himself so that be read a complete posuk and then he starts laining again from the begining of the posuk.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 04, 2016, 12:32:14 PM
There is a Baal korei in my shul who has a smart practice when he makes a mistake and said Shem H'.
He reads the rest of the posuk quietly to himself so that be read a complete posuk and then he starts laining again from the begining of the posuk.
IINM you can't just reread the Posuk if it wasn't a real mistake.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 12:38:15 PM
IINM you can't just reread the Posuk if it wasn't a real mistake.
AFAIK there's no problem with that and I myself have done that on occasion. If someone has a halachic source please quote it.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 04, 2016, 12:47:48 PM
AFAIK there's no problem with that and I myself have done that on occasion. If someone has a halachic source please quote it.
+1
I just started Laining again after a nearly 2 year hiatus.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 04, 2016, 01:00:00 PM
Awesome thread. I'm a baal korei too and this (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=59648.msg1371722#msg1371722) was actually the first thing to pop into my mind upon finding this thread.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 04, 2016, 01:03:27 PM
There is a Baal korei in my shul who has a smart practice when he makes a mistake and said Shem H'.
He reads the rest of the posuk quietly to himself so that be read a complete posuk and then he starts laining again from the begining of the posuk.
It is common practice (some to themselves while others finishing aloud), though hallachically it's not required (especially if it's a real mistake) since technically the passuk was never really leined and it's like he said hashem's name accidentally so he can just stop right there and start the passuk anew correctly.
But, yes, the minhag is to finish off the rest of the passuk before restarting.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: avremie on January 04, 2016, 06:51:32 PM


4) I'm not sure about this but maybe we can coordinate jobs in shuls if they are available. I know personally that I'm asked many times if I could lain somewhere but I'm already booked. This may be a good place to share those jobs.
PM me with your location I know of a friend who has an agency for baalei Kria. He mainly does chabad houses and crown heights shuls, but if it is in walking distance he may be able to help.
Are you trying to coordinate amongst brothers or create an agency that takes a 20% cut?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 06:53:33 PM
Are you trying to coordinate amongst brothers or create an agency that takes a 20% cut?
There is an agency set up already. By all means coordinate here I'm just putting out the options.
The point is that it should be easy to find someone to take you over.
Title: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: oiseli48 on January 04, 2016, 07:17:14 PM
Great thread. I'm a Baal Korei too. When leining vayigash a couple weeks ago, quite a few people got confused with the different endings of the Aliyos
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 04, 2016, 07:50:19 PM
קטנתי
azla geirish..so i've heard beshiem Rav Y. Belsky shlita (may he have a refua shelaima)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 08:01:44 PM
Great thread. I'm a Baal Korei too. When leining vayigash a couple weeks ago, quite a few people got confused with the different endings of the Aliyos
By me as well even though I told everyone before. Also פרשת מקץ שבת חנוכה even though I told everyone thatשישי ושביעי would be read together you still had people confused about the aliyos.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 08:03:42 PM
A funny anecdote: I was laining the aseres hadibros on Shavuos and someone (actually a big rov) started correcting me on the words saying that I was missing letters. Turns out that he was looking in to parshas voeschanon...
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 04, 2016, 08:56:49 PM
A funny anecdote: I was laining the aseres hadibros on Shavuos and someone (actually a big rov) started correcting me on the words saying that I was missing letters. Turns out that he was looking in to parshas voeschanon...
You mean lo/velo?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 04, 2016, 09:06:28 PM
From the halachah and shaila thread. A couple posts are nogea here too.
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285.msg1195821#msg1195821 (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285.msg1195821#msg1195821) and the next few posts.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 04, 2016, 09:12:32 PM
You mean lo/velo?
Yes
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: @Yehuda on January 05, 2016, 09:33:22 AM
I enjoy laining, and in High School, I lained 1-2 Aliyos a week in the Teen/Youth Minyan. In the past year or two, I've done my first few complete Parshas (Yisro and Vayikra) in addition to my BM Parshas (Bechukosai my year and have since learned Behar as well. I would love to lain every week and be able to lain on those random Monday-Thursdays when the Shul announces, "Umm does anyone know how to lain?" but, unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to prepare, and I just don't have the patience to be practicing the Parsha at night after work.

To join the discussion: How Makpid are you on properly pronouncing Sheva Na vs. Shva Nach?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: dealfinder85 on January 05, 2016, 09:37:20 AM
I enjoy laining, and in High School, I lained 1-2 Aliyos a week in the Teen/Youth Minyan. In the past year or two, I've done my first few complete Parshas (Yisro and Vayikra) in addition to my BM Parshas (Bechukosai my year and have since learned Behar as well. I would love to lain every week and be able to lain on those random Monday-Thursdays when the Shul announces, "Umm does anyone know how to lain?" but, unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to prepare, and I just don't have the patience to be practicing the Parsha at night after work.

To join the discussion: How Makpid are you on properly pronouncing Sheva Na vs. Shva Nach?
apparently you are pretty makpid
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 05, 2016, 09:38:39 AM
I enjoy laining, and in High School, I lained 1-2 Aliyos a week in the Teen/Youth Minyan. In the past year or two, I've done my first few complete Parshas (Yisro and Vayikra) in addition to my BM Parshas (Bechukosai my year and have since learned Behar as well. I would love to lain every week and be able to lain on those random Monday-Thursdays when the Shul announces, "Umm does anyone know how to lain?" but, unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to prepare, and I just don't have the patience to be practicing the Parsha at night after work.

To join the discussion: How Makpid are you on properly pronouncing Sheva Na vs. Shva Nach?
Wow vayikra isn't one of the easiest parshas to start with so kol hakavod! Monday and Thursday is a great place to start as it's very short and like you said someone is almost always needed. You can spend some time on shabbos afternoon to prepare it and then go over our once before Monday and again before Thursday.
Regarding שוא נא ושוא נח my first few years of laining I wasn't careful but then I learnt an easy simon to remember them and i it became a breeze.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: @Yehuda on January 05, 2016, 09:58:56 AM
apparently you are pretty makpid
lol did that on purpose.

Wow vayikra isn't one of the easiest parshas to start with so kol hakavod! Monday and Thursday is a great place to start as it's very short and like you said someone is almost always needed. You can spend some time on shabbos afternoon to prepare it and then go over our once before Monday and again before Thursday.
Regarding שוא נא ושוא נח my first few years of laining I wasn't careful but then I learnt an easy simon to remember them and i it became a breeze.
Yeah, I realized that as I was going through it. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to lain it last year so now I haven't looked at it in 2 years. That's a good idea for Mon-Thurs, but it's annoying because my Shul usually has someone for Mon/Thurs. I find the need for a Ba'al Koreh more when you're in a random place one morning. And at that point, I wouldn't have prepared it in advance.

I was always careful with pronouncing words clearly, but I didn't get too grammatical until my Hebrew class in college where my phenomenal teacher taught us everything about Shevas, Dageshim (still don't do that 100% properly), etc. I've gotten much more particular, but of course, would never correct a Ba'al Koreh who doesn't pronounce a Dagesh Chazak. In my community, many Ba'alei Kriah read "Ches" and "Ayin" in a gutteral way like certain types of Sefardim. I don't think I would ever end up laining like that, though.

The most interesting thing my teacher taught us was how he believes a Daled without a Dagesh should be pronounced - "Daleth". His support was quite intriguing. Everyone knows that Rashi says by Shema that the Daled of Echad should be stretched out. Yet, there's no way to really stretch it without ending up saying "Echaaaaad" (which isn't stretching the actual Daled, but rather the Patach of the Ches) or "Echadah" (which is really like adding an extra letter after the Daled." However, if you pronounce the Daled as "Daleth," then you can say "Echathhhhh" as that is a sound that can be stretched. Perhaps that's how Rashi pronounced his Daleds and that's what he meant. Thought it was really interesting.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 05, 2016, 10:32:47 AM
lol did that on purpose.
Yeah, I realized that as I was going through it. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to lain it last year so now I haven't looked at it in 2 years. That's a good idea for Mon-Thurs, but it's annoying because my Shul usually has someone for Mon/Thurs. I find the need for a Ba'al Koreh more when you're in a random place one morning. And at that point, I wouldn't have prepared it in advance.

I was always careful with pronouncing words clearly, but I didn't get too grammatical until my Hebrew class in college where my phenomenal teacher taught us everything about Shevas, Dageshim (still don't do that 100% properly), etc. I've gotten much more particular, but of course, would never correct a Ba'al Koreh who doesn't pronounce a Dagesh Chazak. In my community, many Ba'alei Kriah read "Ches" and "Ayin" in a gutteral way like certain types of Sefardim. I don't think I would ever end up laining like that, though.

The most interesting thing my teacher taught us was how he believes a Daled without a Dagesh should be pronounced - "Daleth". His support was quite intriguing. Everyone knows that Rashi says by Shema that the Daled of Echad should be stretched out. Yet, there's no way to really stretch it without ending up saying "Echaaaaad" (which isn't stretching the actual Daled, but rather the Patach of the Ches) or "Echadah" (which is really like adding an extra letter after the Daled." However, if you pronounce the Daled as "Daleth," then you can say "Echathhhhh" as that is a sound that can be stretched. Perhaps that's how Rashi pronounced his Daleds and that's what he meant. Thought it was really interesting.
In chassidus it explain that we are maarich in machsovo about how Hashem is everywhere but that's an interesting idea nonetheless.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: skyguy918 on January 05, 2016, 11:03:43 AM
The most interesting thing my teacher taught us was how he believes a Daled without a Dagesh should be pronounced - "Daleth". His support was quite intriguing. Everyone knows that Rashi says by Shema that the Daled of Echad should be stretched out. Yet, there's no way to really stretch it without ending up saying "Echaaaaad" (which isn't stretching the actual Daled, but rather the Patach of the Ches) or "Echadah" (which is really like adding an extra letter after the Daled." However, if you pronounce the Daled as "Daleth," then you can say "Echathhhhh" as that is a sound that can be stretched. Perhaps that's how Rashi pronounced his Daleds and that's what he meant. Thought it was really interesting.
Do you mean to put the 'th' (as in 'this') in the front (ie thaled)? That's what the Shema example would imply.

Was this teacher Yemenite by any chance? That's how they pronounce it. Plus they do 'j' for גּ, 'th' (as in 'thick') for ת - see the wikipedia for other differences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Hebrew#Distinguishing_Features
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: @Yehuda on January 05, 2016, 11:05:39 AM
Do you mean to put the 'th' (as in 'this') in the front (ie thaled)? That's what the Shema example would imply.

Was this teacher Yemenite by any chance? That's how they pronounce it. Plus they do 'j' for גּ, 'th' (as in 'thick') for ת - see the wikipedia for other differences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Hebrew#Distinguishing_Features
Yes, I meant that. Thanks.
Nope, he's not.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on January 05, 2016, 11:11:25 AM
I had a teimani friend who would stretch it out that way. Echuthhhh
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: joeberg on January 05, 2016, 06:17:58 PM
I think R' Yaakov Kaminetzky held that way.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 05, 2016, 06:19:44 PM
I think R' Yaakov Kaminetzky held that way.
He was known for a big baal medayek.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 05, 2016, 06:32:54 PM
Last year I lained in a half teimani half chabad shul and although I did notice the jimmel I don't remember any daleth. Where exactly is the dialect from?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gozalim on January 05, 2016, 07:10:07 PM
@MendelG
Is the Chabad preference for חומש תורה תמימה (http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/14052) (for nusach diyukim etc.) also from your grandfather?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 05, 2016, 07:22:54 PM
@MendelG
Is the Chabad preference for חומש תורה תמימה (http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/14052) (for nusach diyukim etc.) also from your grandfather?
A very good question. AFAIK it comes from the fact that the Rebbe would use it every shabbos to follow along in as well as by the fabrengen when he would explain rashi. If anyone knows  more info please share. (We are referring to the old print of the chumash, the new print doesn't have the same diyukim).
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on January 05, 2016, 07:35:33 PM
Last year I lained in a half teimani half chabad shul and although I did notice the jimmel I don't remember any daleth. Where exactly is the dialect from?
It is a teimani thing
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 05, 2016, 08:21:40 PM
I think R' Yaakov Kaminetzky held that way.
+1 I've heard the same and yes he was know to be a big Baal medakdek
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MeirS on January 05, 2016, 09:55:51 PM
A very good question. AFAIK it comes from the fact that the Rebbe would use it every shabbos to follow along in as well as by the fabrengen when he would explain rashi. If anyone knows  more info please share. (We are referring to the old print of the chumash, the new print doesn't have the same diyukim).
The Torah Temimah chumash is known for its great Diyuk in Ta'amim and Nikud.
I believe that's why it's used as the deciding chumash in many shuls including Chabad. In addition to that, it's also the Chumash that the Lubavitcher Rebbe used.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Iz on January 05, 2016, 10:00:35 PM
The most interesting thing my teacher taught us was how he believes a Daled without a Dagesh should be pronounced - "Daleth". His support was quite intriguing. Everyone knows that Rashi says by Shema that the Daled of Echad should be stretched out. Yet, there's no way to really stretch it without ending up saying "Echaaaaad" (which isn't stretching the actual Daled, but rather the Patach of the Ches) or "Echadah" (which is really like adding an extra letter after the Daled." However, if you pronounce the Daled as "Daleth," then you can say "Echathhhhh" as that is a sound that can be stretched. Perhaps that's how Rashi pronounced his Daleds and that's what he meant. Thought it was really interesting.
Also: ועבדתם, ואבדתם, ולמדתם.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: emak on January 05, 2016, 10:51:10 PM
The most interesting thing my teacher taught us was how he believes a Daled without a Dagesh should be pronounced - "Daleth". His support was quite intriguing. Everyone knows that the Gemara says by Shema that the Daled of Echad should be stretched out. Yet, there's no way to really stretch it without ending up saying "Echaaaaad" (which isn't stretching the actual Daled, but rather the Patach of the Ches) or "Echadah" (which is really like adding an extra letter after the Daled." However, if you pronounce the Daled as "Daleth," then you can say "Echathhhhh" as that is a sound that can be stretched. Perhaps that's how the Gemara pronounced his Daleds and that's what he meant. Thought it was really interesting.
FTFY
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: @Yehuda on January 06, 2016, 11:00:16 AM
Would have helped if you bolded what was fixed. Figured it out. Gemara.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 06, 2016, 01:42:14 PM
+1 I've heard the same and yes he was know to be a big Baal medakdek
Someone told me that he actually renamed a trop because the the name is a contradiction to the trop. Very interesting and true, but not generally accepted, though.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Iz on January 06, 2016, 01:49:01 PM
Someone told me that he actually renamed a trop because the the name is a contradiction to the trop. Very interesting and true, but not generally accepted, though.
Details, please?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 06, 2016, 02:42:35 PM
Details, please?
The trop "yesiv" is always found on single-syllable words only. Additionally, the yesiv trop is written before the first letter of the (single-syllable) word. Also, every trop is appears in the taamei hamikra exactly the way it should be leined i.e. mil'el vs. milra etc. The only thing that doesn't match up is the name of the yesiv is a two-syllable word with the trop appearing between the two syllables which contradicts the actual trop.

R' Yaakov ZL therefore suggested that the actual name should be "tiv (siv)" with the trop appearing beforehand.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Iz on January 06, 2016, 02:46:56 PM
The trop "yesiv" is always found on single-syllable words only. Additionally, the yesiv trop is written before the first letter of the (single-syllable) word. Also, every trop is appears in the taamei hamikra exactly the way it should be leined i.e. mil'el vs. milra etc. The only thing that doesn't match up is the name of the yesiv is a two-syllable word with the trop appearing between the two syllables which contradicts the actual trop.

R' Yaakov ZL therefore suggested that the actual name should be "tiv (siv)" with the trop appearing beforehand.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on January 06, 2016, 03:34:40 PM
@MendelG
Is the Chabad preference for חומש תורה תמימה (http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/14052) (for nusach diyukim etc.) also from your grandfather?
I've also heard that the Torah temima follows the Russian minhag as to all the shinuyim.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: avremie on January 06, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
The trop "yesiv" is always found on single-syllable words only. Additionally, the yesiv trop is written before the first letter of the (single-syllable) word. Also, every trop is appears in the taamei hamikra exactly the way it should be leined i.e. mil'el vs. milra etc. The only thing that doesn't match up is the name of the yesiv is a two-syllable word with the trop appearing between the two syllables which contradicts the actual trop.

R' Yaakov ZL therefore suggested that the actual name should be "tiv (siv)" with the trop appearing beforehand.
Since when is a shva a syllable?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: george on January 06, 2016, 06:38:38 PM
The trop "yesiv" is always found on single-syllable words only. Additionally, the yesiv trop is written before the first letter of the (single-syllable) word. Also, every trop is appears in the taamei hamikra exactly the way it should be leined i.e. mil'el vs. milra etc. The only thing that doesn't match up is the name of the yesiv is a two-syllable word with the trop appearing between the two syllables which contradicts the actual trop.

R' Yaakov ZL therefore suggested that the actual name should be "tiv (siv)" with the trop appearing beforehand.
Any baal medakdek will tell you that a shva - nah OR nach - is never its own syllable. Shva is always part of the syllable before it or after it. Shva nach ends all syllables (nach niglah or nach nistar) and shva nah is always at the beginning of a new syllable.
I'm not questioning R' Yaakov Kamenetzky's credentials ch'v, I'm just pointing out a fact that contradicts what you wrote in his name.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Iz on January 06, 2016, 06:43:17 PM
Any baal medakdek will tell you that a shva - nah OR nach - is never its own syllable. Shva is always part of the syllable before it or after it. Shva nach ends all syllables (nach niglah or nach nistar) and shva nah is always at the beginning of a new syllable.
I'm not questioning R' Yaakov Kamenetzky's credentials ch'v, I'm just pointing out a fact that contradicts what you wrote in his name.
The husband of a medakdek? A bit of an oxymoron, no? ;)
I'm impressed with the OP who wrote "Baalei Kria", not "Baalei Korei". :)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 06, 2016, 06:59:20 PM
The husband of a medakdek? A bit of an oxymoron, no? ;)
I'm impressed with the OP who wrote "Baalei Kria", not "Baalei Korei". :)
lol was thinking the same on both of those.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 06, 2016, 07:00:08 PM
And just want to thank OP for creating this thread. It's amazing and obviously there is definitely a niche for it.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: george on January 06, 2016, 07:05:29 PM
The husband of a medakdek? A bit of an oxymoron, no? ;)
lol was thinking the same on both of those.
+1 I've heard the same and yes he was know to be a big Baal medakdek
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Iz on January 06, 2016, 07:08:21 PM
lol was thinking the same on both of those.
Wow, this must be the only thread where I can get away with a post like that! 8)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 06, 2016, 07:15:02 PM

yes I know:)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 06, 2016, 07:15:40 PM
The husband of a medakdek? A bit of an oxymoron, no? ;)
I'm impressed with the OP who wrote "Baalei Kria", not "Baalei Korei". :)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 06, 2016, 07:17:28 PM
And just want to thank OP for creating this thread. It's amazing and obviously there is definitely a niche for it.
You're very welcome. I think I get a prize for the first thread I open to be so widely appreciated!
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 06, 2016, 07:19:30 PM
You're very welcome. I think I get a prize for the first thread I open to be so widely appreciated!
yes I was actually thinking there should be a sort of website or something for baalei Kriah and then this came ;D
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 06, 2016, 07:23:26 PM
yes I was actually thinking there should be a sort of website or something for baalei Kriah and then this came ;D
There is a website actually baaleikria.com but it doesn't seem to be as popular as some other blogs. Maybe it's a lack of deals or something.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on January 06, 2016, 07:37:04 PM
There is a website actually baaleikria.com but it doesn't seem to be as popular as some other blogs. Maybe it's a lack of deals or something.
the last post was November 25th, not the most active blog out there. And besides, for topics such as this one, a forum generally works better than a blog.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 06, 2016, 07:39:03 PM
True and there's a wiki
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 07, 2016, 02:34:32 PM
This morning the Baal koreh reminded of an important point.
He was laining and wasn't careful to pause between two words that ended and began with the same letter. For example. מצרים מעבידים, אתכם מתחת, מתחת סבלות, אתכם מעבודתם, לכם מורשה, מקצר רוח. These are very common in all the parshiyos and are to many to enumerate. It's extremely crucial that you pronounce these correctly, separating the letters into two separate sounds.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2016, 02:50:42 PM
ולא שמו (שמעו) אל משה
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 07, 2016, 02:52:03 PM
True and there's a wiki
Hey! Don't embarrass me in public...  :-[
 :P
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 10, 2016, 04:15:06 PM
In פרשת וארא I found two minor difference between the תורה תמימה and a regular חומש. Number one was in the last פסוק of שלישי on word ואהרן, and the second was on the beginning of רביעי on the words ויעשו כן.
ת''ת: ואהרון - זקף קטן בלי מונח
חומשים: ואהרון - זקף קטן עם מונח
ת''ת: ויעשו כן - זקף קטן עם מונח
חומשים:ויעשו כן - זקף קטן בלי מונח
As I said minor but still a difference.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 14, 2016, 12:29:56 PM
There are at least 3 differences in פרשת בא between the ת''ת and  the other חומשים. They are on the words; לכו-נא, שה תמים, לבד מטף. There is another שינוי נוסח from my great grandfather on the word קומו, but I don't believe there is a מקור for it.
Also many people have a minhag to get an aliyah this week in honour of the yortzait of the Rebbe Rayatz. So in chabad kehillos many side minyonim are made for Kria.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on January 14, 2016, 12:43:37 PM
How does T"T compare with the Rodelheim?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on January 14, 2016, 03:02:11 PM
There are at least 3 differences in פרשת בא between the ת''ת and  the other חומשים. They are on the words; לכו-נא, שה תמים, לבד מטף. There is another שינוי נוסח from my great grandfather on the word קומו, but I don't believe there is a מקור for it.
Also many people have a minhag to get an aliyah this week in honour of the yortzait of the Rebbe Rayatz. So in chabad kehillos many side minyonim are made for Kria.
And because minhag Chabad is not to split the aliyos.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: koplonko on January 17, 2016, 12:37:07 PM
There are at least 3 differences in פרשת בא between the ת''ת and  the other חומשים. They are on the words; לכו-נא, שה תמים, לבד מטף. There is another שינוי נוסח from my great grandfather on the word קומו, but I don't believe there is a מקור for it.
Also many people have a minhag to get an aliyah this week in honour of the yortzait of the Rebbe Rayatz. So in chabad kehillos many side minyonim are made for Kria.
In the gutnick chumash it says that it's "minhag an"s" does that mean chabad minhag?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 17, 2016, 12:38:57 PM
In the gutnick chumash it says that it's "minhag an"s" does that mean chabad minhag?
How many belze or satmere gutinks do you know...?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 17, 2016, 02:19:59 PM
In the gutnick chumash it says that it's "minhag an"s" does that mean chabad minhag?
אנ'ש = אנשי שלומינו = חב''ד
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on January 18, 2016, 11:52:56 PM
אנ'ש = אנשי שלומינו = חב''ד
If the writer is Chabad
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 19, 2016, 12:13:04 AM
If the writer is Chabad
As is the author of the Gutnick chumash
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on January 19, 2016, 12:14:15 AM
As is the author of the Gutnick chumash
I was pointing out that אנש doesn't specifically have to be referring to Chabad. Your post wasn't so clear on that.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on January 19, 2016, 07:36:54 AM
As is the editor of the Gutnick chumash
FTFY
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: a mirrer on January 20, 2016, 08:59:26 AM
now we can discuss the different נוסחאות for when you do the shira trop and regular trop
ill start with ger the current minhag is the first והמים להם חומה is shira the second one is regular then every pasuk that doesn't have shem hashem is regular besides for וברוח אפיך and שמעו עמים which we do shira
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 20, 2016, 01:14:23 PM
now we can discuss the different נוסחאות for when you do the shira trop and regular trop
ill start with ger the current minhag is the first והמים להם חומה is shira the second one is regular then every pasuk that doesn't have shem hashem is regular besides for וברוח אפיך and שמעו עמים which we do shira
Well AFAIK minhag chabad is the second והמים להם חומה then every possuk with שם השם, starting from ויושע and that's it. Also at the end of the last פסוק before the actual שירה we end off ויאמינו בה' וכו' like by the end of a sefer (חזק). Also by Miriam you do the tune by שירו לה...בים.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: a mirrer on January 21, 2016, 08:58:00 AM
Well AFAIK minhag chabad is the second והמים להם חומה then every possuk with שם השם, starting from ויושע and that's it. Also at the end of the last פסוק before the actual שירה we end off ויאמינו בה' וכו' like by the end of a sefer (חזק). Also by Miriam you do the tune by שירו לה...בים.
ויושע is also shira?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on January 21, 2016, 10:13:41 AM


Well AFAIK minhag chabad is the second והמים להם חומה then every possuk with שם השם, starting from ויושע and that's it. Also at the end of the last פסוק before the actual שירה we end off ויאמינו בה' וכו' like by the end of a sefer (חזק). Also by Miriam you do the tune by שירו לה...בים.

+1
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 25, 2016, 05:27:25 PM
Probably no chiddush for baalei kria, but just to mention a general yedia. The difference between taam hatachton and taam ha'elyon is that taam hatachton is divided according to pesukim upon mesorah, whereas taam ha'elyon is divided by the aseres adibros; every mitzva a separate passuk.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 25, 2016, 06:08:11 PM
Probably no chiddush for baalei kria, but just to mention a general yedia. The difference between taam hatachton and taam ha'elyon is that taam hatachton is divided according to pesukim upon mesorah, whereas taam ha'elyon is divided by the aseres adibros; every mitzva a separate passuk.
ראה שו''ע הלכות שבועות בכ'ז
Just to mention that it has become minhag chabad (I believe based on Reb Mottel Shusterman) that for every פזר in the עשרת הדיברות, we replace it with a מרכה כפולה.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 26, 2016, 03:23:08 AM
now we can discuss the different נוסחאות for when you do the shira trop and regular trop
ill start with ger the current minhag is the first והמים להם חומה is shira the second one is regular then every pasuk that doesn't have shem hashem is regular besides for וברוח אפיך and שמעו עמים which we do shira
Due to the snow this shabbos I was zoche to hear the shira from the Baal koreh in 770. I noticed two differences to what I wrote before:1) he finished off מימינם ומשמאלם like חזק.    2) he did another פסוק in the Sheffield tune even though it didn't have Hashem's name. Unfortunately I'm not certain which possuk that was.
Also if anyone knows a difference between TT and the regular chumash for parshas beshalach please don't hesitate to share.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 26, 2016, 03:25:42 AM
ויושע is also shira?
Yes
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: a mirrer on January 26, 2016, 07:03:52 AM
Due to the snow this shabbos I was zoche to hear the shira from the Baal koreh in 770. I noticed two differences to what I wrote before:1) he finished off מימינם ומשמאלם like חזק.    2) he did another פסוק in the Sheffield tune even though it didn't have Hashem's name. Unfortunately I'm not certain which possuk that was.
Also if anyone knows a difference between TT and the regular chumash for parshas beshalach please don't hesitate to share.
if צללו is a שוא or a חטף פתח
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on January 26, 2016, 11:21:21 AM
if צללו is a שוא or a חטף פתח
IIRC, the TT is based upon the Rodelheim which will have many חטף פתח where others have a שוא due to the yekkish הברה where they do this often. They say ברכו with a חטף as well.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gozalim on January 26, 2016, 01:19:09 PM
ראה שו''ע הלכות שבועות בכ'ז
Just to mention that it has become minhag chabad (I believe based on Reb Mottel Shusterman) that for every פזר in the עשרת הדיברות, we replace it with a מרכה כפולה.
He's not the GF you've been talking about?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on January 26, 2016, 01:20:03 PM
He's not the GF you've been talking about?
No.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 10, 2016, 01:00:38 PM
In פרשת משפטים the only difference I came across is in the possuk על כל דבר פשע on the word חמור, in other חומשים it has a תלישא גדולה and in the TT it has a תלישא קטנה.
In this week's parsha the only difference I found so far is where you end שני.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 10, 2016, 01:02:41 PM
Also if anyone has a job available for this week only please PM
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 25, 2016, 02:04:35 PM
If anyone wants to join a WhatsApp group for jobs based out of Crown heights. PM me
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on February 25, 2016, 02:39:32 PM
I hope to be leining megilla for the first time this year. Anyone have any tips or information on different minhagim that I may not be aware of?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on February 25, 2016, 02:41:30 PM
I hope to be leining megilla for the first time this year. Anyone have any tips or information on different minhagim that I may not be aware of?
+1, I'm also looking for something like this (I'll probably be Leining it 4 times)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 25, 2016, 02:46:44 PM
Anyone know the minhogim about laining in a lower tone this week? I can't remember the exact details.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 25, 2016, 02:52:19 PM
I hope to be leining megilla for the first time this year. Anyone have any tips or information on different minhagim that I may not be aware of?
The best tip is to practise, every word of the megila is meakev so make sure you can read corrrectly every single word. There are different minhogim but most are the same by everyone.
•raise your voice by בלילה ההוא
•we repeat ואיש לא עמד בפינהם and להרוג ולאבד first time we say בפניהם second time לפניהם, first time להרוג second time ולהרוג.
• certain places we do eicho tune
• shake the megila by איגרת הזאת, איגרת הפורים הזאת.
Shulchan oruch mentions most of them so take a look.
• we make the last brocho davka before the megila is rolled up.
I'll write some more as I remember.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on February 25, 2016, 02:54:11 PM
The best tip is to practise, every word of the megila is meakev so make sure you can read corrrectly every single word. There are different minhogim but most are the same by everyone.
•raise your voice by בלילה ההוא
•we repeat ואיש לא עמד בפינהם and להרוג ולאבד first time we say בפניהם second time לפניהם, first time להרוג second time ולהרוג.
• certain places we do eicho tune
• shake the megila by איגרת הזאת, איגרת הפורים הזאת.
Shulchan oruch mentions most of them so take a look.
• we make the last brocho davka before the megila is rolled up.
I'll write some more as I remember.
Shorer/sorer
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: eli1571 on February 25, 2016, 06:40:41 PM
Say some words together so that it will be roshei teivos of shem havayah, like yovo hamelech vhomon hayom.
There's some more will post when I remember them.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on February 25, 2016, 07:13:37 PM
Shorer/sorer
I've also heard באמרם/כאמרם
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on February 25, 2016, 07:14:31 PM
Say some words together so that it will be roshei teivos of shem havayah, like yovo hamelech vhomon hayom.
There's some more will post when I remember them.
I've heard it read that way, didn't know why. Thanks!
Title: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: chbochur on February 25, 2016, 07:49:35 PM
I have such lists of diyukim and minhagim on Megillah (as well as any other parsha), its according to minhag chabad, if you'd like it pm (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160226/fd41ff93efa0699f73f4dd26ff9400d5.jpg)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on February 25, 2016, 08:30:09 PM
Say some words together so that it will be roshei teivos of shem havayah, like yovo hamelech vhomon hayom.
There's some more will post when I remember them.
Ki ra'a ki chalsa eilav hara'a
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on February 25, 2016, 08:31:01 PM
I've also heard באמרם/כאמרם
And the list goes on and on
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on February 26, 2016, 01:57:04 AM
What's minhag Chabad this week if there's no kohen?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: whYME on February 26, 2016, 02:41:54 AM
I've found this helpful for megilla
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 26, 2016, 03:54:32 AM
What's minhag Chabad this week if there's no kohen?
I asked my father last year. He said that he had heard of people combining rishoin and sheini and then splitting the parsha again later, however he did admit that it really is not such a huge problem if you just continue like regular. This is obviously if you have a leivi, makes no difference if you only have Yisroelim.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 26, 2016, 03:54:57 AM
Ki ra'a ki chalsa eilav hara'a
?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 26, 2016, 03:55:37 AM
Shorer/sorer
Never heard of that, makor?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 26, 2016, 03:56:26 AM
I've also heard באמרם/כאמרם
That's ksiv and kri, are you saying some say both?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on February 26, 2016, 10:10:07 AM
?
כי ראה כ'י כלת'ה אלי'ו הרע'ה
סופי תיבות הוי"ה
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: miles lover on February 29, 2016, 03:53:48 AM
כי ראה כ'י כלת'ה אלי'ו הרע'ה
סופי תיבות הוי"ה
Where's it brought down to do this in one breath ?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: miles lover on February 29, 2016, 03:55:48 AM
The best tip is to practise, every word of the megila is meakev so make sure you can read corrrectly every single word. There are different minhogim but most are the same by everyone.
•raise your voice by בלילה ההוא
•we repeat ואיש לא עמד בפינהם and להרוג ולאבד first time we say בפניהם second time לפניהם, first time להרוג second time ולהרוג.
• certain places we do eicho tune
• shake the megila by איגרת הזאת, איגרת הפורים הזאת.
Shulchan oruch mentions most of them so take a look.
• we make the last brocho davka before the megila is rolled up.
I'll write some more as I remember.
The bracha after megillah is made after its rolled up ?? u sure ? I recall the opposite.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yitrap on February 29, 2016, 05:59:09 AM

The bracha after megillah is made after its rolled up ?? u sure ? I recall the opposite.
He said before...
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on February 29, 2016, 07:35:24 AM
After its rolled up but still on the Bima.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on February 29, 2016, 11:33:56 AM
After its rolled up but still on the Bima.
Before specifically.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: skyguy918 on February 29, 2016, 12:03:46 PM
Before specifically.
שו"ע א"ח תרצ:יז says clearly to roll it up first and then make the ברכה.
מ"ב ס"ק מז says דגנאי הוא למגילה שתהיה מונחת כך.

If you're trying to say that minhag Chabad is to do it before (which, of course, it is), say so explicitly. Especially since the one that asked the question is not Chabad.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: dudi on February 29, 2016, 02:09:00 PM
Been a ba'al koireh for for 12 years now.
The thing that bothers me the most is having someone correct you when it is not a problem at all.
Just this shabbos had a guy correct the ba'al koireh from "es" to "eis" wanted to kill the guy. Worst parshah for that every 2 frikin minutes.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: skyguy918 on February 29, 2016, 02:16:55 PM
Been a ba'al koireh for for 12 years now.
The thing that bothers me the most is having someone correct you when it is not a problem at all.
Just this shabbos had a guy correct the ba'al koireh from "es" to "eis" wanted to kill the guy. Worst parshah for that every 2 frikin minutes.
Lol, that's literally the only example most people know is not me'akev.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on February 29, 2016, 03:15:10 PM
Been a ba'al koireh for for 12 years now.
The thing that bothers me the most is having someone correct you when it is not a problem at all.
Just this shabbos had a guy correct the ba'al koireh from "es" to "eis" wanted to kill the guy. Worst parshah for that every 2 frikin minutes.
I once Lained in Shomer Shabbos in BP unprepared since they were looking for a Baal Korei, and Moshe Metzger doesn't like to Lain if he doesn't absolutely have to. He stood right next to me and corrected every Es and Eis (don't recall which Parsha it was), when I finished I asked him nicely to please tell me the difference between the two, his response was "I don't know, but the Ruv (Rabbi Tyrnauer Zatzal, this was before he passed away) is very Makpid on this".
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: dudi on February 29, 2016, 03:25:04 PM
I once Lained in Shomer Shabbos in BP unprepared since they were looking for a Baal Korei, and Moshe Metzger doesn't like to Lain if he doesn't absolutely have to. He stood right next to me and corrected every Es and Eis (don't recall which Parsha it was), when I finished I asked him nicely to please tell me the difference between the two, his response was "I don't know, but the Ruv (Rabbi Tyrnauer Zatzal, this was before he passed away) is very Makpid on this".
The worst is when you not 100% prepared and someone corrects you gets you totally mixed up and then mess up way more times.
All of this is why when I lain and someone corrects me I decide on my own if they are right to make me go back and if they are not I just totally ignore them
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: JoeyShmoe on February 29, 2016, 03:43:33 PM
The worst is when you not 100% prepared and someone corrects you gets you totally mixed up and then mess up way more times.
All of this is why when I lain and someone corrects me I decide on my own if they are right to make me go back and if they are not I just totally ignore them
I've been doing that for a while already, if it's only a random voice I just ignore while slowing down in case it's a real issue and other people pipe up. But it's kinda hard to do that with Moshe Metzger barking at you
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: dudi on February 29, 2016, 03:58:38 PM
I've been doing that for a while already, if it's only a random voice I just ignore while slowing down in case it's a real issue and other people pipe up. But it's kinda hard to do that with Moshe Metzger barking at you
I hear you
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on February 29, 2016, 09:14:09 PM
I've also heard באמרם/כאמרם
was just reading this. Rabbi Belsky Ztl was noheig just כאמרם
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on February 29, 2016, 09:18:21 PM
The trop "yesiv" is always found on single-syllable words only. Additionally, the yesiv trop is written before the first letter of the (single-syllable) word. Also, every trop is appears in the taamei hamikra exactly the way it should be leined i.e. mil'el vs. milra etc. The only thing that doesn't match up is the name of the yesiv is a two-syllable word with the trop appearing between the two syllables which contradicts the actual trop.

R' Yaakov ZL therefore suggested that the actual name should be "tiv (siv)" with the trop appearing beforehand.
Just correcting that this is not wholly correct because the words שמן  and העל which we saw in recent weeks had a yesiv
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on February 29, 2016, 10:28:57 PM
Just correcting that this is not wholly correct because the words שמן  and העל which we saw in recent weeks had a yesiv
Yup! Realized it during leining this Shabbos (the ha'al). I will have to go back to the source from whom I heard it (my krias hatorah rebbe) and see what's going on. (Didn't get around to posting it yet.)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on March 01, 2016, 01:36:36 AM
שו"ע א"ח תרצ:יז says clearly to roll it up first and then make the ברכה.
מ"ב ס"ק מז says דגנאי הוא למגילה שתהיה מונחת כך.

If you're trying to say that minhag Chabad is to do it before (which, of course, it is), say so explicitly. Especially since the one that asked the question is not Chabad.
The source is from chabad but I don't believe it's a minhag based thing. I'll bli neder look up the source and post later.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on March 01, 2016, 01:37:24 AM
Been a ba'al koireh for for 12 years now.
The thing that bothers me the most is having someone correct you when it is not a problem at all.
Just this shabbos had a guy correct the ba'al koireh from "es" to "eis" wanted to kill the guy. Worst parshah for that every 2 frikin minutes.
True that it's not meakev, but nothing is wrong with wanting to have a perfect kria. If you've been laining for 12 years, then take him over
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: miles lover on March 01, 2016, 05:39:40 AM
He said before...
That's what I meant. anyhow I  make the bracha after its rolled.

aha. now I c that it's minhag chabad to make bracha b4.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: miles lover on March 01, 2016, 05:45:06 AM
was just reading this. Rabbi Belsky Ztl was noheig just כאמרם
Never heard beomrom ever (only heard and lained ashkenaz). It's not only rabbi belsky.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: dudi on March 01, 2016, 06:33:06 AM
True that it's not meakev, but nothing is wrong with wanting to have a perfect kria. If you've been laining for 12 years, then take him over
I beg to differ.
If it's not meakev them effectively this is a major tircha detzibura.
Why in the world does a person need a perfect kria more then what God said is perfect? No offense at all but what you said is what pisses me off most about this whole thing.
If it's someone that doesn't know the halachos that's one thing but if it's someone that's doing it because he believes that what God says is good is not good enough from him, I believe his hell is gonna be HOTTT
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on March 01, 2016, 08:50:23 AM
I beg to differ.
If it's not meakev them effectively this is a major tircha detzibura.
Why in the world does a person need a perfect kria more then what God said is perfect? No offense at all but what you said is what pisses me off most about this whole thing.
If it's someone that doesn't know the halachos that's one thing but if it's someone that's doing it because he believes that what God says is good is not good enough from him, I believe his hell is gonna be HOTTT
The correct nekudois are also straight from har Sinai! The gehenoim for Kaas is worse...
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: dudi on March 01, 2016, 09:01:00 AM
The correct nekudois are also straight from har Sinai! The gehenoim for Kaas is worse...
No Kaas involved here.
But major problems with people who think that being machmir on other peoples account in acceptable.
No matter if there is a better way if God said it's good and a person decides to do more and not everyone agrees with him on that, that is tircha detzibura. (Unless that is the shuls minhag).
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on March 01, 2016, 09:29:58 AM
Never heard beomrom ever (only heard and lained ashkenaz). It's not only rabbi belsky.
Ive actually heard both. but i was just pointing out that rabbi belsky (and yes, as well as most baalei kriah) was noheig like that.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: skyguy918 on March 01, 2016, 10:34:18 AM
The source is from chabad but I don't believe it's a minhag based thing. I'll bli neder look up the source and post later.
Chabad.org begs to differ:
Quote from: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2833170/jewish/Halachot-Uminhagim-Laws-and-Customs-of-Purim.htm
The Chabad custom is that the berachah is recited only by the reader. It is recited before the Megillah is rolled up and only when the Megillah is read in public (with a quorum of ten men).

(לוח חב"ד ושיחת כ"ק אדמו"ר פורים תשט"ז עמ' מ)
The point is, don't say 'everyone' when you really mean all Lubavitchers. Do you know of any kehillos other than Chabad that roll it up before?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on March 01, 2016, 11:46:20 AM
In Lakewood they roll up the megilla first.

The say ג:ד twice. First time באמרם second time כאמרם. The kuntres of Lakewood minhagim brings discussion on this from R'S. Miller in נטעי נאמנים תשסו and רבבות אפרים ח"ה או"ח תנא ב
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 01, 2016, 01:35:54 PM
I beg to differ.
If it's not meakev them effectively this is a major tircha detzibura.
Why in the world does a person need a perfect kria more then what God said is perfect? No offense at all but what you said is what pisses me off most about this whole thing.
If it's someone that doesn't know the halachos that's one thing but if it's someone that's doing it because he believes that what God says is good is not good enough from him, I believe his hell is gonna be HOTTT
No Kaas involved here.
But major problems with people who think that being machmir on other peoples account in acceptable.
No matter if there is a better way if God said it's good and a person decides to do more and not everyone agrees with him on that, that is tircha detzibura. (Unless that is the shuls minhag).
+1000
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on March 01, 2016, 03:23:34 PM
Just correcting that this is not wholly correct because the words שמן  and העל which we saw in recent weeks had a yesiv
and just remembered that עין also has a yesiv in parshas mishpatim
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on March 04, 2016, 11:06:52 AM
Yup! Realized it during leining this Shabbos (the ha'al). I will have to go back to the source from whom I heard it (my krias hatorah rebbe) and see what's going on. (Didn't get around to posting it yet.)
Maybe he meant that a יתיב will always be on the first syllable?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on March 05, 2016, 09:18:53 PM
Maybe he meant that a יתיב will always be on the first syllable?
That would make a lot of sense because the way we pronounce it when leining the taamei hamikra we put the meseg on the siv part not the ye part which differs from how we pronounce it when we lein.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: emak on March 06, 2016, 08:57:26 PM
A professional Bal Koreh friend is looking for Megillah Leining job in lkwd. PM me
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on March 10, 2016, 02:35:08 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160310/189ec96fb7352ced6da9359698a79325.jpg)
Can anyone tell which ksav this is?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: lechatchileh ariber on March 10, 2016, 03:04:56 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160310/189ec96fb7352ced6da9359698a79325.jpg)
Can anyone tell which ksav this is?
It's arizal
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 23, 2016, 04:00:40 PM
May need to lain megila for a choleh. I am the furthest thing from a Baal koreh...

I'm assuming that the taamim are not meakev. Main concern is the kri and kesivs.
Any tips on how to keep on top of this? Are sticky notes a good idea??
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 23, 2016, 04:02:56 PM
May need to lain megila for a choleh. I am the furthest thing from a Baal koreh...

I'm assuming that the taamim are not meakev. Main concern is the kri and kesivs.
Any tips on how to keep on top of this? Are sticky notes a good idea??
Have someone (who was already yotzei) with a reliable chumash/megillas esther stand near you in case of need. Make sure they don't look away for a moment.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 23, 2016, 04:06:13 PM
Have someone (who was already yotzei) with a reliable chumash/megillas esther stand near you in case of need. Make sure they don't look away for a moment.
That would be plan a.
Question is if that doesn't work..
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 23, 2016, 04:12:04 PM
That would be plan a.
Question is if that doesn't work..
If you have all the time on your hands and are ready to prepare sticky notes and stop momentarily during leining to check them, then why not. You should consult a sofer, though, if it's safe to stick them on the ksav. As a baal koreh I don't find it practical, but. You should also still try to see if you can get someone else.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 23, 2016, 04:47:51 PM
Eta found someone bh
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 23, 2016, 04:49:57 PM
Eta found someone bh
HAPPY PURIM!
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on March 23, 2016, 05:17:23 PM
May need to lain megila for a choleh. I am the furthest thing from a Baal koreh...

I'm assuming that the taamim are not meakev. Main concern is the kri and kesivs.
Any tips on how to keep on top of this? Are sticky notes a good idea??
just as an aside if the choleh is one that will not necessarily be listening the whole time (I mean like drifting in and out) you should have the choleh make the bracha. This way you will save yourself the bracha levatala
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 23, 2016, 05:18:42 PM
just as an aside if the choleh is one that will not necessarily be listening the whole time (I mean like drifting in and out) you should have the choleh make the bracha. This way you will save yourself the bracha levatala
Yeah, let the poor sick guy do it. His problem
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 23, 2016, 05:49:30 PM
just as an aside if the choleh is one that will not necessarily be listening the whole time (I mean like drifting in and out) you should have the choleh make the bracha. This way you will save yourself the bracha levatala
In any case if you were already yotzei then he should be making the berachos.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on March 23, 2016, 05:53:36 PM
just as an aside if the choleh is one that will not necessarily be listening the whole time (I mean like drifting in and out) you should have the choleh make the bracha. This way you will save yourself the bracha levatala
According to the MGA you do not need to be paying attention to everyone as long as you hear each word.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 23, 2016, 05:56:01 PM
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/305384708/Megilla-Fulfilling
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on March 23, 2016, 06:23:32 PM
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/305384708/Megilla-Fulfilling
Not sure I agree with his explaination of the MGA by bentching but in by megilah he has to be saying that because that can be the only thing he is referring to when saying the Bach is not mashma that way.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: eliteflyer on March 23, 2016, 06:35:05 PM
Do I know anyone with a megilla I can borrow this evening in CH to lein between 9 and 10 pm?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MisterHock on March 23, 2016, 10:47:36 PM
Anyone know of an 11:15 or 11:30 megillah leining tonight  in Flatbush?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: chaimmayer on March 23, 2016, 11:15:51 PM
I'm assuming that the taamim are not meakev. Main concern is the kri and kesivs.
How many are there in the whole Megilla? 
I can think of two
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 23, 2016, 11:20:05 PM
How many are there in the whole Megilla? 
I can think of two
True but there are other nekudos that can be problematic.
Anyway, BH Im not doing it
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on March 23, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
How many are there in the whole Megilla? 
I can think of two
Much more.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: schneury on March 24, 2016, 01:23:28 AM
There are at least 3 differences in פרשת בא between the ת''ת and  the other חומשים. They are on the words; לכו-נא, שה תמים, לבד מטף. There is another שינוי נוסח from my great grandfather on the word קומו, but I don't believe there is a מקור for it.
Also many people have a minhag to get an aliyah this week in honour of the yortzait of the Rebbe Rayatz. So in chabad kehillos many side minyonim are made for Kria.
its from the frierdiker rebbe
Once when rabbi Gordon was leining and came to the word קומו before he had a chance to say it the frierdiker rebbe said out loud the word קומו with a יתיב
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: schneury on March 24, 2016, 01:36:12 AM
The bracha after megillah is made after its rolled up ?? u sure ? I recall the opposite.
there is a sicha from the Rebbe Purim 1956 where the Rebbe goes into a long arichus which way to do it, lmaskana the Rebbe says to make the bracha before rolling it up.
If you look on videos you see the Rebbe starts to roll up before the bracha then stops and continues after the bracha
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on March 24, 2016, 02:27:16 AM
How many are there in the whole Megilla? 
I can think of two
Off the top of my head I say 4
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on March 24, 2016, 07:22:39 AM
Off the top of my head I say 4
Off the top of my head:

ובמלאות
באמרם
ביהודיים
אחשרש
עתידים
לפניהם
ולהרוג
הפרוזים
קיבל
And there are more.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: eliteflyer on March 24, 2016, 07:44:05 AM
Anyone with a megilla I can borrow this morning in CH anytime between 9 am and 12pm?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yudamaan on March 27, 2016, 01:05:44 AM


Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 27, 2016, 01:19:58 PM

Sure it's not edited? Anyway, megilla is such a happy thing, what the rush?! He should lein eicha that way...
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: SLMYRCB on March 27, 2016, 01:26:25 PM
Sure it's not edited? Anyway, megilla is such a happy thing, what the rush?! He should lein eicha that way...
The way the camera is moving it seems it was speedup.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 27, 2016, 02:05:25 PM
The way the camera is moving it seems it was speedup.
Per this it is real time

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2016/03/video-megilla-leining-in-lakewood-possibly-the-fastest-in-the-world.html
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yudamaan on March 27, 2016, 02:38:50 PM
Sure it's not edited? Anyway, megilla is such a happy thing, what the rush?! He should lein eicha that way...
I know who this baal korei is, he's really quick! though never heard anything this quick, doubt is edited
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on April 01, 2016, 02:27:57 AM
Anyone want to lain in park slope area?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on April 10, 2016, 02:38:48 PM
Someone pointed out to me an interesting insight. This past shabbos was the only day in the year when (many) leined from five different parshiyos.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on April 10, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
Someone pointed out to me an interesting insight. This past shabbos was the only day in the year when (many) leined from five different parshiyos.
I guess I'm one of the few because I only read from four
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on April 10, 2016, 03:42:07 PM
I guess I'm one of the few because I only read from four
Tazria, Pinchas, Bo, Naso (for those who read nasi from a s"t) and metzora
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on April 10, 2016, 03:53:41 PM
Tazria, Pinchas, Bo, Naso (for those who read nasi from a s"t) and metzora
מעולם לא שמעתי על מנהג כזה
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on April 10, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
מעולם לא שמעתי על מנהג כזה
Welcome to the big wide world out there  :). I don't have this minhag either but I've seen many who do have this minhag.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on April 10, 2016, 04:06:07 PM
Welcome to the big wide world out there  :). I don't have this minhag either but I've seen many who do have this minhag.
Care to elaborate? They do this every day?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on April 10, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
Care to elaborate? They do this every day?
Yup. I've seen satmere chassidim doing this, and maybe klausenburg too. I think the mekor is ziditchov, not sure though.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on April 10, 2016, 04:11:23 PM
I thought all chasidim do this everyday
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on April 10, 2016, 05:02:35 PM
I thought all chasidim do this everyday

Care to elaborate? They do this every day?

Yup. I've seen satmere chassidim doing this, and maybe klausenburg too. I think the mekor is ziditchov, not sure though.
Not only Chasidim there are plenty that do it
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on April 10, 2016, 05:11:47 PM
Not only Chasidim there are plenty that do it
Which non chasidim do this??
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on April 10, 2016, 05:12:22 PM
Which non chasidim do this??
I know in Torah vodaas they do it
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on April 10, 2016, 06:12:30 PM
Laining the nesiim is a nusach sfard thing IINM
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: churnbabychurn on April 10, 2016, 07:01:55 PM
Laining the nesiim is a nusach sfard thing IINM
And nusach sefarad is a chasidim thing.

Many people are not chasidim anymore but still kept the sefard.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on April 10, 2016, 07:18:28 PM
Who read metzorah? Israelis?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on April 10, 2016, 09:47:27 PM
Who read metzorah? Israelis?
At Mincha
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on April 11, 2016, 08:23:31 AM
At Mincha
Ah. So I guess 6 would be possible if Chodesh + Rosh Chodesh fell out on a double parsha week.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Moshe123 on April 11, 2016, 08:42:58 AM
Nothing like being asked to lain Metzora, a parsha that is rarely read during the week, at 1-second notice.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: username on April 11, 2016, 09:53:33 AM
Nothing like being asked to lain Metzora, a parsha that is rarely read during the week, at 1-second notice.
+1
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: yochiek93 on April 11, 2016, 11:00:05 AM
Nothing like being asked to lain Metzora, a parsha that is rarely read during the week, at 1-second notice.
Lol
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on April 11, 2016, 11:08:52 AM
Ah. So I guess 6 would be possible if Chodesh + Rosh Chodesh fell out on a double parsha week.
That can't happen.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on April 11, 2016, 11:41:28 AM
That can't happen.
Why not? Vayakhel-Pekudei?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: aygart on April 11, 2016, 11:51:58 AM
Why not? Vayakhel-Pekudei?
It can never happen that it is both Vayakhel Pekudei and Rosh Chodesh. Same thing for parshas shkalim and truma titzaveh
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on April 11, 2016, 12:45:35 PM
It can never happen that it is both Vayakhel Pekudei and Rosh Chodesh. Same thing for parshas shkalim and truma titzaveh
I guess the rabbis had mercy on us.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MendelG on April 11, 2016, 12:59:08 PM
It can never happen that it is both Vayakhel Pekudei and Rosh Chodesh. Same thing for parshas shkalim and truma titzaveh
Teruma tzeve is never a double parsha
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: ExGingi on April 11, 2016, 01:06:38 PM
Nothing like being asked to lain Metzora, a parsha that is rarely read during the week, at 1-second notice.

Good thing I still remember it from my Bar Mitzvah which was in a week of Parshas Metzorah.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: username on April 11, 2016, 01:17:19 PM
Good thing I still remember it from my Bar Mitzvah which was in a week of Parshas Metzorah.
Happy Birthday!
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Jm1248 on August 31, 2016, 06:43:09 PM
Looking for a Baal Korei in Flatbush this week. Pls text 718-218-5125 for more details
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Jm1248 on September 01, 2016, 11:47:45 AM
Looking for a Baal Korei in Flatbush this week. Pls text 718-218-5125 for more details
Thanks for the responses everyone. I already found someone.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: gubevo18 on September 01, 2016, 11:58:44 AM
Looking for a Baal Kriah in Flatbush this week. Pls text 718-218-5125 for more details
FTFY
 ;)
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: koplonko on September 02, 2016, 07:17:47 PM
FTFY
 ;)
-1
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: @Yehuda on September 19, 2016, 09:37:25 PM
Is there a specific way one should lain Chamishi this week with all the "Arur"s (not the ones in the Tochacha)?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: MeirS on September 20, 2016, 07:19:45 AM
Is there a specific way one should lain Chamishi this week with all the "Arur"s (not the ones in the Tochacha)?
Not according to the Chabad custom. I can't speak for others.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: @Yehuda on September 20, 2016, 11:00:12 AM
Not according to the Chabad custom. I can't speak for others.
Thanks
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on March 19, 2019, 12:36:01 AM
I've had a hard time keeping straight when there's a shva and when there's a pasach under the vav at the beginning of the word (ויכתב, etc).

Today I learned the rule of thumb (probably obvious to some here): pasach if its past, shva if it's future.

If I concentrate on what I'm reading, I find it easier to remember which to use.
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: good sam on March 19, 2019, 12:44:18 AM
Same with the shva or pasach under a lamed or beis.

Rule of the thumb: pasach is short for לה, so if the thing referred to is a known thing (ה הידיע) it's a pasach (e.g. ביום ההוא, למלך, למדינות). If not (or if it's expressly described) , it's a shva (e.g. ביום אחד, ביום שלשה עשר).
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: username on October 21, 2020, 02:00:00 PM
https://quantifiedcantillation.nl/
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Galitzyaner on December 30, 2020, 01:30:11 AM
Over the years I find less and less baalei kriah who diffrentiate between תְּלִישָא־קְטַנָּה֩ and תְּ֠לִישָא גְדוֹלָה. Is this distinction being lost?
Title: Re: Laining/Baalei Kria
Post by: Yo ssi on December 30, 2020, 02:13:27 AM
Over the years I find less and less baalei kriah who diffrentiate between תְּלִישָא־קְטַנָּה֩ and תְּ֠לִישָא גְדוֹלָה. Is this distinction being lost?
Except for by haftorah, I haven't noticed that.