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DansDeals Forum => Up In The Air => Topic started by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 05:13:23 PM

Title: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 05:13:23 PM
PASSENGER WAS ORIGINALLY BOOKED IN BUSINESS CLASS ON UNITED, UNITED CANCELED THE FLIGHT AND REBOOKED THE PAX IN ELAL FIRST CLASS AND REISSUED THE TICKET. NOW ELAL FOR NO REASON DENIES BOARDING.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: YOSEF on January 25, 2016, 05:16:37 PM
Totally denied? Or just the cabin?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 25, 2016, 05:29:21 PM
There must be a reason
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ShlockDoc on January 25, 2016, 05:31:25 PM
Whats the stated reason?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 05:43:47 PM
The stated reason is that WE ARE NOT HONORING THIS TICKET.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: AJK on January 25, 2016, 05:44:45 PM
...and?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 05:46:33 PM
First they said that UA can not reprotect on LY F so I called UA and they rebooked in J, then they just said, WE ARE NOT ACCEPTING THE PASSENGER IN BUSINESS CLASS.

Classic ElAl. Their service smells the same their first class seats smell. Which is GROSS.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 25, 2016, 05:48:04 PM
First they said that UA can not reprotect on LY F so I called UA and they rebooked in J, then they just said, WE ARE NOT ACCEPTING THE PASSENGER IN BUSINESS CLASS.

Classic ElAl. Their service smells the same their first class seats smell. Which is GROSS.


Vote here

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=51955.0
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 05:49:08 PM
Whoever thinks there is a different reason is welcome to go over to the El Al rep in JFK named Ronnie and ask him.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: AJK on January 25, 2016, 05:51:52 PM
Wow, seems like over-zealous LY rep who is far exceeding his authority.

Either way, you should get IDB compensation, or at least try for it.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: APoshiterYid on January 25, 2016, 05:55:21 PM
Classic Elal. Shame.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 05:57:58 PM
Totally denied? Or just the cabin?
They are willing to give economy.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: AJK on January 25, 2016, 06:00:27 PM
What a joke.

This is like a janitor refusing to honor a promise made by his Fortune 500 company because he, in his esteemed wisdom, doesn't think it looks right.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: steventravel on January 25, 2016, 06:01:30 PM
Are you on the phone with UA?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on January 25, 2016, 06:12:42 PM
I love how we all believe ilherman without skepticism because the airline in question is ElAl. If it were most other airlines, we'd think there was another side to the story. Speaks volumes tp ElAl's customer service.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 06:20:00 PM
I love how we all believe ilherman without skepticism because the airline in question is ElAl. If it were most other airlines, we'd think there was another side to the story. Speaks volumes tp ElAl's customer service.
Well, some people here know me personally and trust me that I don't just make up bedtime stories. And I provided a VERY clear reference.
Whoever thinks there is a different reason is welcome to go over to the El Al rep in JFK named Ronnie and ask him.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2016, 06:24:15 PM
First they said that UA can not reprotect on LY F so I called UA and they rebooked in J, then they just said, WE ARE NOT ACCEPTING THE PASSENGER IN BUSINESS CLASS.

Classic ElAl. Their service smells the same their first class seats smell. Which is GROSS.
I wouldn't know what their seats smell like, as I am proud to say I haven't stepped foot on LY metal for almost 16 years. Though I was contemplating giving them a try once they get the 787s, but thanks for the reminder of who we are dealing with.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 06:26:32 PM
When the pax told him that there are DOT rules about denied boarding he just said "El Al has it's own rules"  :o
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on January 25, 2016, 06:26:54 PM
Well, some people here know me personally and trust me that I don't just make up bedtime stories. And

I'm not questioning your trustworthiness; I'm criticizing ElAl's customer service.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 06:34:56 PM
I'm not questioning your trustworthiness; I'm criticizing ElAl's customer service.
No problem.

El Al Hachie Babayis Boulam  :-X   Well at least they don't have that phrase in English...

Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Chaikel on January 25, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
What a joke.

This is like a janitor refusing to honor a promise made by his Fortune 500 company because he, in his esteemed wisdom, doesn't think it looks right.
He's actually the SC of JFK
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Yehuda25 on January 25, 2016, 06:35:53 PM
When the pax told him that there are DOT rules about denied boarding he just said "El Al has it's own rules"  :o
haha  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: creditor on January 25, 2016, 06:36:03 PM
Ronnie is Ronnie and Elal is Elal so typical!! Home away from home...

In a side note, They were probably not excited about UA booking into their F ( which is totally fair if you ask me )

As AJK mentioned make sure you get some hefty reimbursement for IDB
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Chaikel on January 25, 2016, 06:36:42 PM
When the pax told him that there are DOT rules about denied boarding he just said "El Al has it's own rules"  :o
I hope they're getting this on video
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on January 25, 2016, 06:37:52 PM
At least el al doesn't break guitars
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 06:40:04 PM
I hope they're getting this on video
I told him to take video. He has an old flip phone.. Not sure how much he was able to get...
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2016, 06:42:23 PM
In a side note, They were probably not excited about UA booking into their F ( which is totally fair if you ask me )
Huh? If you have a protect agreement then you have to honor it!
If you don't like the reimbursement, then pull a DL and force airlines to renegotiate or drop the agreement.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2016, 06:42:53 PM
I told him to take video. He has an old flip phone.. Not sure how much he was able to get...
Shame.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 06:59:49 PM
Ronnie is Ronnie and Elal is Elal so typical!! Home away from home...

In a side note, They were probably not excited about UA booking into their F ( which is totally fair if you ask me )

As AJK mentioned make sure you get some hefty reimbursement for IDB
Yah, that was what it originally bothered him. Although I explained to him that it's UAs issue and not LY as UA is responsible for whatever they book in. But to no ears. He said UA J pax can not get in our F even UA booked it.

He was like "we have first class and UA doesn't, UA has something called business first but it's not REAL first, we have REAL first. Its very exclusive"  :-X

So I got UA to rebook in business class and called him back, now his response was "I am not giving business class, I am the boss in JFK and I WILL MAKE SURE THEY ONLY SIT IN ECONOMY"

So I said, this is called involuntary denied boarding, the passenger has to fly so he will fly economy but at least let him take 2 bags since he is ticketed in business class, he said NO and hang up the phone. 

This idiot was still sooo proud of his first class  ::)
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: damaxer91 on January 25, 2016, 07:09:29 PM
Pretty odd. Ronnie is a good guy
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Jkhein on January 25, 2016, 07:11:46 PM
Pretty odd. Ronnie is a good guy
+1 I have had him go out of his way alot for passengers
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: AJK on January 25, 2016, 07:15:43 PM
He's actually the SC of JFK

OK, then secretary.

Reprotect agreements are negotiated and executed by people far above his rank.  He has no right to deny boarding based on his personal feelings about whether UA should or should not reprotect in F.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
Pax should sit down in F and refuse to get up...

The LY agent needs to be fired, anything else is completely unacceptable. It makes no difference how good he normally is, the pax is a regular, paying, revenue FIRST CLASS PASSENGER and this guy should be fired for even offending him, never mind downgrading him to economy

Speaking as somebody who has personally bought and flown full F LY tickets, I will think twice about it next time and especially out of JFK.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2016, 07:22:15 PM
It's not like these protect agreements aren't real money.
AA coughed up $15K to UA to rebook the 4 of us in J to TLV.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 25, 2016, 07:25:14 PM
And for the record... UA has 3 cabin first class which... wait for it... features an actual flat bed seat
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 07:30:35 PM
It's not like these protect agreements aren't real money.
AA coughed up $15K to UA to rebook the 4 of us in J to TLV.
And that's precisely what I tried explaining to him. I said because it doesn't say on the reciept the updated amount what UA is paying for F does not mean UA is not paying. I told him, when LY rebooks on UA it doesn't either show up on UAs reciept what LY pays. It's something they work out internally.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Chaikel on January 25, 2016, 07:39:28 PM
From what I understand, this came from upstairs. Not that it makes anymore sense...
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 07:40:48 PM
UA got them rebooked on UA90 tonight where the business class happens to be much nicer than LYs first class on the 777. Since LY got the new business bed like seat on the 777 I really can't believe anyone paying for those first class seats which are right next to the kitchen and very noisy and uncomfortable and don't even have a bathroom. So funny how proud Ronnie was from his first class.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 25, 2016, 07:45:50 PM
UA got them rebooked on UA90 tonight where the business class happens to be much nicer than LYs first class on the 777. Since LY got the new business bed like seat on the 777 I really can't believe anyone paying for those first class seats which are right next to the kitchen and very noisy and uncomfortable and don't even have a bathroom. So funny how proud Ronnie was from his first class.
+1

Same experience here, I booked my father UA J RT, but needed to change the return flight and travel agent was able to change the return to  LY F, which was cheaper than UA J.

My father said the only advantage he had with LY is that he got chauffeur service from JFK To Brooklyn, but otherwise he will always take United J over LY F
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 08:05:05 PM
From what I understand, this came from upstairs. Not that it makes anymore sense...
To me he said that it was his decision and then he change his mind.

And if you wanna get the real picture, read below.

There was a passenger who got to the airport with the same exact story and he wanted to give him issues but when that TA who happens to be friends with Ronnei called him up he right away let him on!!! So typical El Al, not sure how they are still around as an airline.

People who know Ronnei say that he probably had a buddy who he wanted to upgrade to first class, so he did all this... Don't know.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: joeb1 on January 25, 2016, 08:11:06 PM
Pax should sit down in F and refuse to get up...

The LY agent needs to be fired, anything else is completely unacceptable. It makes no difference how good he normally is, the pax is a regular, paying, revenue FIRST CLASS PASSENGER and this guy should be fired for even offending him, never mind downgrading him to economy

Speaking as somebody who has personally bought and flown full F LY tickets, I will think twice about it next time and especially out of JFK.

+1million
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: creditor on January 25, 2016, 08:43:59 PM
[quote author=ilherman link=topic=60242.msg1393872#msg1393872

People who know Ronnei say that he probably had a buddy who he wanted to upgrade to first class, so he did all this... Don't know.
[/quote]Exactly what I thought
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: damaxer91 on January 25, 2016, 08:49:41 PM
Everyone here loves to put down El Al but when they need the rules bent a bit or have to get someone on an overbooked flight for a Levaya etc. they know that they can count on them. It goes both ways.....
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2016, 09:09:12 PM
Does the new Israeli law (tibi) give him rights in this case?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mawmaw on January 25, 2016, 09:15:05 PM
Everyone here loves to put down El Al but when they need the rules bent a bit or have to get someone on an overbooked flight for a Levaya etc. they know that they can count on them. It goes both ways.....
and pay $2500 :P
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 25, 2016, 09:25:10 PM
To me he said that it was his decision and then he change his mind.

And if you wanna get the real picture, read below.

There was a passenger who got to the airport with the same exact story and he wanted to give him issues but when that TA who happens to be friends with Ronnei called him up he right away let him on!!! So typical El Al, not sure how they are still around as an airline.

People who know Ronnei say that he probably had a buddy who he wanted to upgrade to first class, so he did all this... Don't know.
Pulling back from this part since I can not verify the exact details.

Here is another cute LY story. Remember we had a snow storm? Remember dansdeals posted that just about every airline had waivers in place which waived change fee and fare differences at least for flights booked in the next few dates? Remember that El Al was not on that list?

Okay, so a friend of mine was booked on the Motzei Shabbos flight on a X class (mileage ticket) his flight was canceled and he called El Al to rebook him for Sunday and the agent just tells him, "there is no mileage availability we will not give you a seat on a plane which does not have mileage availability"  :o

After 6 hours on the phone back and forth he finally managed to convince him to just exchange the ticket.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2016, 10:19:44 PM
Everyone here loves to put down El Al but when they need the rules bent a bit or have to get someone on an overbooked flight for a Levaya etc. they know that they can count on them. It goes both ways.....
Last time I took LY was 16 years ago to my father's levaya. The attitude I experienced earned ELAL a personal ban since then.

There's something in the DNA that is the opposite of a true service culture. I don't have high demands, but a little מענטשליכקייט would go a long way. I've taken many trips since then, including paid J, but LY hasn't been an option to consider.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 26, 2016, 02:51:37 AM
Can I even file a DOT claim against El Al since it was a UA ticket and UA protected me on their own metal the same night? Or I can still file against El Al for denied boarding?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: shimino1 on January 26, 2016, 05:10:04 AM
If you had a boarding pass and were denied boarding, why not?
If I'm mugged by a guy and my insurance covers it, can I still file a police report against the mugger?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: kangarruu on January 26, 2016, 06:48:09 AM
Can I even file a DOT claim against El Al since it was a UA ticket and UA protected me on their own metal the same night? Or I can still file against El Al for denied boarding?

File with DOT. Let them decide whether the complaint is valid.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on January 26, 2016, 08:25:59 AM
Can I even file a DOT claim against El Al since it was a UA ticket and UA protected me on their own metal the same night? Or I can still file against El Al for denied boarding?

What's with israeli law, there was a dedicated law firm referred elsewhere on the forum's
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on January 26, 2016, 08:28:34 AM
Can I even file a DOT claim against El Al since it was a UA ticket and UA protected me on their own metal the same night? Or I can still file against El Al for denied boarding?

Did it involve transferring from JFK to EWR, dose that add to the case?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 26, 2016, 10:05:14 AM
What's with israeli law, there was a dedicated law firm referred elsewhere on the forum's
I contacted them. They only deal with cases that involve 10+ people.
Did it involve transferring from JFK to EWR, dose that add to the case?
I would file for this cost as well.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 26, 2016, 10:00:05 PM
Okay, so I thought that this was over, boy was I wrong. It is just starting now.

So this is what I received from someone saying what Ronnei told him.

Quote
Hi I just spoke to ronnie, He has a copy of the ticket. UA did not revalidate the ticket in F class, he was on the phone with nyc city office and it was confrimed by them that it was not revlated in F class

Come again Ronnei; You think I am the same idiot as you are? I guess you don't know what every DDFer knows and it's Alef Beis that the way to know whether or not a ticket is good is to see if you can check in and get a boarding pass. I WAS ABLE TO PRINT A BOARDING PASS. On ElAl.com it came up the reservation with the ticket # in F. And moreover, what kind of BS is he trying to sell? It wasn't even a ticket re-validation, it was a ticket REISSUE. There was a whole brand new ticket which was visible to UA and to LY. Remember what the teacher in class used to say. When there are 4 different answers for the same question then you're clearly hiding something. This is already the fifth excuse they are giving. First they said that since UA does not have first class it's not possible for them to rebook on LY F  ::) then they just went on in saying that the passenger was never ticketed in business class in the first place and then they went back again that they were and the F class was there but UA didn't revalidate the ticket when in fact there was a full new ticket. And luckily I ahve screenshots from everything. Just mind boggling how someone could be such a moron.

I wonder, is this what every other airline would do? Just fight and fight without having ANY defence just not to have to say IM SORRY, I MADE A MISTAKE? Or is it just ElAl?

And Ronnei, you are welcome to see the attached screenshots from the Boarding Pass and from the confirmed reservation on YOUR (broken) 1996 website.

(http://i.imgur.com/1iyWXS2.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/OEa0dho.png)

So sad.  :-X
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 26, 2016, 10:03:27 PM
Okay, so I thought that this was over, boy was I wrong. It is just starting now.

So this is what I received from someone saying what Ronnei told him.

Come again Ronnei; You think I am the same idiot as you are? I guess you don't know what every DDFer knows and it's Alef Beis that the way to know whether or not a ticket is good is to see if you can check in and get a boarding pass. I WAS ABLE TO PRINT A BOARDING PASS. On ElAl.com it came up the reservation with the ticket # in F. And moreover, what kind of BS is he trying to sell? It wasn't even a ticket re-validation, it was a ticket REISSUE. There was a whole brand new ticket which was visible to UA and to LY. Remember what the teacher in class used to say. When there are 4 different answers for the same question then you're clearly hiding something. This is already the fifth excuse they are giving. First they said that since UA does not have first class it's not possible for them to rebook on LY F  ::) then they just went on in saying that the passenger was never ticketed in business class in the first place and then they went back again that they were and the F class was there but UA didn't revalidate the ticket when in fact there was a full new ticket. And luckily I ahve screenshots from everything. Just mind boggling how someone could be such a moron.

I wonder, is this what every other airline would do? Just fight and fight without having ANY defence just not to have to say IM SORRY, I MADE A MISTAKE? Or is it just ElAl?

And Ronnei, you are welcome to see the attached screenshots from the Boarding Pass and from the confirmed reservation on YOUR (broken) 1996 website.

(http://i.imgur.com/1iyWXS2.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/OEa0dho.png)

So sad.  :-X
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: cooljoe613 on January 27, 2016, 01:49:55 AM
 Are you busy with this all day instead o enjoying your trip? I feel for you however please enjoy your trip? Unless you where returning home?  8)

I only had great experience on elal love the service on board!
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Emkay on January 27, 2016, 04:05:26 AM
Are you busy with this all day instead o enjoying your trip? I feel for you however please enjoy your trip? Unless you where returning home?  8)

I only had great experience on elal love the service on board!
It's not his ticket
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: chff on January 27, 2016, 07:21:57 AM



Here is another cute LY story. Remember we had a snow storm? Remember dansdeals posted that just about every airline had waivers in place which waived change fee and fare differences at least for flights booked in the next few dates? Remember that El Al was not on that list?

The Lufthansa group wasn't on that list either

Come again Ronnei; You think I am the same idiot as you are? I guess you don't know what every DDFer knows and it's Alef Beis that the way to know whether or not a ticket is good is to see if you can check in and get a boarding pass. I WAS ABLE TO PRINT A BOARDING PASS. On ElAl.com it came up the reservation with the ticket # in F. And moreover, what kind of BS is he trying to sell? It wasn't even a ticket re-validation, it was a ticket REISSUE. There was a whole brand new ticket which was visible to UA and to LY. Remember what the teacher in class used to say. When there are 4 different answers for the same question then you're clearly hiding something. This is already the fifth excuse they are giving. First they said that since UA does not have first class it's not possible for them to rebook on LY F  ::) then they just went on in saying that the passenger was never ticketed in business class in the first place and then they went back again that they were and the F class was there but UA didn't revalidate the ticket when in fact there was a full new ticket. And luckily I ahve screenshots from everything. Just mind boggling how someone could be such a moron.

I wonder, is this what every other airline would do? Just fight and fight without having ANY defence just not to have to say IM SORRY, I MADE A MISTAKE? Or is it just ElAl?

And Ronnei, you are welcome to see the attached screenshots from the Boarding Pass and from the confirmed reservation on YOUR (broken) 1996 website.

Not sure exactly what happened from both ends, but let me make a few points;

I had a pax in UA I class to LHR and UA canceled the flight. They only offered to rebook him in Y, as "BA" will reject if they rebook him on their metal because it was originally an award reservation.

I once had UA revalidate a ticket which caused the OAL to cancel the space. UA only offered then to rebook him on their metal which the timing's wasn't acceptable and the pax when then forced to pay again the change fee

Printing a boarding pass doesn't always mean ok to Travel. I once had a story were a boarding pass was printed but they were denied boarding as they had skipped a segment a few "days" prior but the website still allowed a BP to be printed
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 08:22:25 AM




Not sure exactly what happened from both ends, but let me make a few points;

I had a pax in UA I class to LHR and UA canceled the flight. They only offered to rebook him in Y, as "BA" will reject if they rebook him on their metal because it was originally an award reservation.

I once had UA revalidate a ticket which caused the OAL to cancel the space. UA only offered then to rebook him on their metal which the timing's wasn't acceptable and the pax when then forced to pay again the change fee

Printing a boarding pass doesn't always mean ok to Travel. I once had a story were a boarding pass was printed but they were denied boarding as they had skipped a segment a few "days" prior but the website still allowed a BP to be printed

This definitely sheds some light to the story.

Also, denied cabin is not denied boarding.

And finally, I don't belive that he acted on personal feelings, the fact that he sounded irritated is no different then (some of) AA reps that they get very impatient if they can't hang up after a minute etc...
I assume he acted upon the system prompted him to do so...
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: benjie1305 on January 27, 2016, 09:21:02 AM

Also, denied cabin is not denied boarding.


Not sure if that actually matters. A quick google search for IDB comes up with If you have been denied a reserved seat on (name of air carrier), you are probably entitled to monetary compensation.

While I obviously don't know all ramifications of this, it does sound like not being able to access the seat that is reserved for you - in this case a seat in F - it would still be considered IDB. CMIIW.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 09:24:15 AM
Not sure if that actually matters. A quick google search for IDB comes up with If you have been denied a reserved seat on (name of air carrier), you are probably entitled to monetary compensation.

While I obviously don't know all ramifications of this, it does sound like not being able to access the seat that is reserved for you - in this case a seat in F - it would still be considered IDB. CMIIW.
Well,  even Ronnie said he has a seat reserved,  but only in Y that imho is not considered IDB
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 10:58:08 AM



Also, denied cabin is not denied boarding.

Of course it is.
Well,  even Ronnie said he has a seat reserved,  but only in Y that imho is not considered IDB
Whoa.

I guess since Ronnei said so it is irrelevant what the actual facts were and what it showed on the BP and on elal.com  ::)
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ar on January 27, 2016, 11:05:44 AM
I wonder what's the real story here. Ronnie's a nice guy but what he did now is pretty bad..
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 11:09:26 AM
Of course it is.Whoa.

I guess since Ronnei said so it is irrelevant what the actual facts were and what it showed on the BP and on elal.com  ::)

@ilherman I'm sorry that you had a hard time.
But we can get the facts straight?
Was the ua ticket I class or not?

Also @chff said before that BP is not a geruntee so that dosent prove anything concrete. And i really don't think the issue is specifically with Ronnie,(not that I know him or anything) but either way tell us what actually happened.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2016, 11:13:12 AM
PM the LY rep on FT?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:13:19 AM

I had a pax in UA I class to LHR and UA canceled the flight. They only offered to rebook him in Y, as "BA" will reject if they rebook him on their metal because it was originally an award reservation.

Well, this, IMHO is complete BS. Its not as BA doing a favor for UA, it's UA actually paying for BA for selling them a ticket and UA pays whatever they take from BA, NOT what the original UA ticket was. In fact I my self had a UA mileage ticket in business class and they rebooked me on BA F! Since J was sold out and everything was perfectly fine.

The Lufthansa group wasn't on that list either

But they DID allow free changes  ::)

Printing a boarding pass doesn't always mean ok to Travel. I once had a story were a boarding pass was printed but they were denied boarding as they had skipped a segment a few "days" prior but the website still allowed a BP to be printed
Well, you know what the case there was, the pax had a BP and was good to go but when the airline realized that he skipped a segament they just suspended the ticket. That is a valid reason.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2016, 11:14:29 AM
I once had UA endorse my ticket to CO, but they didn't do it right so I had to go back to UA.
Never heard of having a boarding pass and ticket number that had issues though.

I'd definitely write to LY and the DoT.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:16:29 AM
@ilherman I'm sorry that you had a hard time.
But we can get the facts straight?
Was the ua ticket I class or not?

Also @chff said before that BP is not a geruntee so that dosent prove anything concrete. And i really don't think the issue is specifically with Ronnie,(not that I know him or anything) but either way tell us what actually happened.
I said exactly what happened. Yes it was a mileage ticket. Which makes no difference.

Also @chff said before that BP is not a geruntee so that dosent prove anything concrete.

It does. See my reply to @chff. It proves what it needs to prove, LY wants to say now that it was not ticketed in F the reservation online and the BP show that it WAS.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:20:37 AM
PM the LY rep on FT?
Did not know that LY had a FT rep. Either way I'll have to create a new FT username first  ;) ;)
I once had UA endorse my ticket to CO, but they didn't do it right so I had to go back to UA.
Never heard of having a boarding pass and ticket number that had issues though.

I'd definitely write to LY and the DoT.
Yup that happens. That is why I never accept the endorsing / re-validation crap. I always make sure I have a new ticket number and that it is visible to both, the ticketing and the operating carrier.

Will have to make time to write up the the DOT.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:21:36 AM
I wonder what's the real story here.
Well, by now several member in this thread have seen it in documentation.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 11:29:54 AM


I said exactly what happened. Yes it was a mileage ticket. Which makes no difference.It does. See my reply to @chff. It proves what it needs to prove, LY wants to say now that it was not ticketed in F the reservation online and the BP show that it WAS.
Ok, so you are saying it's a mileage ticket,( because when previous people posted about how they would be mad if that happened to them with revenue revenue tickets you didn't say that you were different ) so now that we know that, plus chff expiriance with ua "officially" not rebooking I class to J only to Y so it's understandable to what has happend and perhaps it was a mistake on united end or clueless rep or whatever...

The point is that yes Ronnie might be a shmuk, but the facts of the story at least makes a person understand that it's not like you paid j and was not rebooked on j like you made it sound in the beginning, that's all.


Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: MeirS on January 27, 2016, 11:31:06 AM
I once had a ticket from UA where the first leg was on UA and the second leg was on US. Because I changed the ticket twice, apparently UA didn't update US correctly and even though UA issued me BPes for both flights, when I got to the gate for my second flight they denied me boarding and sent me back to the main desk airside to "find" my ticket.
In the end, 10 minutes before departure they figured it out and sent me to the gate while she fixed it on her computer so I shouldn't miss the flight.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 11:34:56 AM


Well, this, IMHO is complete BS. Its not as BA doing a favor for UA, it's UA actually paying for BA for selling them a ticket and UA pays whatever they take from BA, NOT what the original UA ticket was. In fact I my self had a UA mileage ticket in business class and they rebooked me on BA F! Since J was sold out and everything was perfectly fine.But they DID allow free changes  ::)Well, you know what the case there was, the pax had a BP and was good to go but when the airline realized that he skipped a segament they just suspended the ticket. That is a valid reason.

If you claim that you had an expiriance were they rebooked you on f with ba then perhaps it is bs, I don't know.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2016, 11:39:39 AM
Ok, so you are saying it's a mileage ticket,( because when previous people posted about how they would be mad if that happened to them with revenue revenue tickets you didn't say that you were different ) so now that we know that, plus chff expiriance with ua "officially" not rebooking I class to J only to Y so it's understandable to what has happend and perhaps it was a mistake on united end or clueless rep or whatever...
That's nonsense.
Officially no airlines will rebook business awards on another airline revenue, but if you push hard enough they will. Took many many reps, but I got AA to move us to UA in an irrops situation like that and UA had no issues taking AAs money.
Why would they??
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 11:45:36 AM
That's nonsense.
Officially no airlines will rebook business awards on another airline revenue, but if you push hard enough they will. Took many many reps, but I got AA to move us to UA in an irrops situation like that and UA had no issues taking AAs money.
Why would they??
I agree to the fact of why should they care, but what you are saying is only confirming that officially this is the right thing to do.
meaning apperntly pushing from one side is not enough, it has to also not sustain opposition from the other end.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:49:27 AM
I once had a ticket from UA where the first leg was on UA and the second leg was on US. Because I changed the ticket twice, apparently UA didn't update US correctly and even though UA issued me BPes for both flights, when I got to the gate for my second flight they denied me boarding and sent me back to the main desk airside to "find" my ticket.
In the end, 10 minutes before departure they figured it out and sent me to the gate while she fixed it on her computer so I shouldn't miss the flight.
UA issued you a BP for the US flight?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:55:11 AM
Ok, so you are saying it's a mileage ticket,( because when previous people posted about how they would be mad if that happened to them with revenue revenue tickets you didn't say that you were different ) so now that we know that, plus chff expiriance with ua "officially" not rebooking I class to J only to Y so it's understandable to what has happend and perhaps it was a mistake on united end or clueless rep or whatever...

The point is that yes Ronnie might be a shmuk, but the facts of the story at least makes a person understand that it's not like you paid j and was not rebooked on j like you made it sound in the beginning, that's all.
Ronnei, may or may not be a shmuk, but you definitely are ;)

You making it sound like I was hiding the main details of the story and NOW everything makes sense is idiocy. As mentioned above there is no OFFICIAL policy on the United website, its where it up to you how good you are in convincing the rep to reprotect you on a different carrier in a revenue class, but once you get the agent to do it AND the ticket IS visible to the other carrier, it is NOT a matter if the other carrier wants to accept it or not. They could decide before it's ticketed of they want to give the space or not but once its ticketed you are a regular revenue paying pax.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2016, 11:57:22 AM
No idea what you're talking about. Just because an airline doesn't normally buy a rev J ticket on another airline when you're booked with miles doesn't mean they can't. That has nothing to do with the other airline, they get paid the same thing whether you originally paid for J or used an award.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 12:02:34 PM
No idea what you're talking about. Just because an airline doesn't normally buy a rev J ticket on another airline when you're booked with miles doesn't mean they can't. That has nothing to do with the other airline, they get paid the same thing whether you originally paid for J or used an award.
+1000

People just don't understand how all these things work so it does not surprise me that Ronnei does not know either and he makes his own decisions based on that, when in fact as AJK mentioned above this is something that people way above his rank deal with.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 12:10:54 PM
Ronnei, may or may not be a shmuk, but you definitely are ;)

You making it sound like I was hiding the main details of the story and NOW everything makes sense is idiocy. As mentioned above there is no OFFICIAL policy on the United website, its where it up to you how good you are in convincing the rep to reprotect you on a different carrier in a revenue class, but once you get the agent to do it AND the ticket IS visible to the other carrier, it is NOT a matter if the other carrier wants to accept it or not. They could decide before it's ticketed of they want to give the space or not but once its ticketed you are a regular revenue paying pax.
Thanks for the feed back

I wasnt trying to call you out.

I just think it's interesting how when I first read this thread with caps and all I thought that it's ridiculous that they "denied bording" but now it's not SO ridiculous, you should have a good life.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 12:17:09 PM
My gosh, you're still not getting the point.

It is the same EXACT ridiculous.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Emkay on January 27, 2016, 12:29:17 PM


but now it's not SO ridiculous, you should have a good life.
Why the heck should it make any diff on LY end?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on January 27, 2016, 12:29:43 PM
My gosh, you're still not getting the point.

It is the same EXACT ridiculous.
Not with chff expiriance that he had which proves there is potentially an issue, so I'm not coming from left field here.

Therefore officially GA has responsibility to fix it regardless who and how much are/is paying for it(that's also for you @dan) btw my name is Ronnie nice to meet you

Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 12:42:50 PM


Therefore officially LY has responsibility to fix it regardless who and how much are/is paying for it
Oiy.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 02:56:40 PM
PM the LY rep on FT?
Okay, I found his name but it looks like he is not active at all. Also, from this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/923398-el-al-aircraft-used-bus-class-seats-sale-ebay-proceeds-charity.html It sounds like he is not involved in the actual day to day operations so he can understand the issue. He has a PR company and was hired by El Al do some PR.

Oh and he promised in that thread to be more active..
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: yakov116 on January 27, 2016, 03:05:33 PM
Okay, I found his name but it looks like he is not active at all. Also, from this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/923398-el-al-aircraft-used-bus-class-seats-sale-ebay-proceeds-charity.html It sounds like he is not involved in the actual day to day operations so he can understand the issue. He has a PR company and was hired by El Al do some PR.

Oh and he promised in that thread to be more active..
Not with chff expiriance that he had which proves there is potentially an issue, so I'm not coming from left field here.

Therefore officially GA has responsibility to fix it regardless who and how much are/is paying for it(that's also for you @dan) btw my name is Ronnie nice to meet you


Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2016, 03:12:09 PM
Okay, I found his name but it looks like he is not active at all. Also, from this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/923398-el-al-aircraft-used-bus-class-seats-sale-ebay-proceeds-charity.html It sounds like he is not involved in the actual day to day operations so he can understand the issue. He has a PR company and was hired by El Al do some PR.

Oh and he promised in that thread to be more active..
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/1627526-elal-ff-program-update-7.html#post23849301
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 04:00:37 PM
Last Activity: Nov 26, 14 11:49 pm
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: benjie1305 on January 27, 2016, 04:01:44 PM
Last Activity: Nov 26, 14 11:49 pm

Message her on Facebook and Linkedin.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
Message her on Facebook and Linkedin.
I don't have either of them. You could message her with a link of this thread....
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: MeirS on January 27, 2016, 04:44:19 PM
UA issued you a BP for the US flight?
Yup. This was back when they were working very close. Probably in the summer of 2012. I think I was flying roundtrip NYC-MSY with a stopover in DCA both ways, (or maybe it was IAD) with the first leg on UA and the other 3 legs of the reservation was on US.
I'm not sure how that would fit into this story but I thought it's an interesting thing to note.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 10:00:57 PM
Never knew that one airline could print a BP for another airline, even they are very close

Perhaps I learn new things every day.

I thought you probably forgot the details etc.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Ergel on January 27, 2016, 10:23:03 PM
Ronnei, may or may not be a shmuk, but you definitely are ;)
Line of the night
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: MEIR613 on January 27, 2016, 10:55:06 PM
Never knew that one airline could print a BP for another airline, even they are very close
Really? I would say this is Alef Beis of airlines.

That's nonsense.
Officially no airlines will rebook business awards on another airline revenue, but if you push hard enough they will. Took many many reps, but I got AA to move us to UA in an irrops situation like that and UA had no issues taking AAs money.
Why would they??
Of course Elal wouldn't care if it really got re validated. The question at hand is if it got re validated which it looks like it did. Although I have had denied boarding at the gate even though there was a BP for reasons that I know, but again it shows having a BP doesnt mean you are OK to fly.


Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Centro on January 27, 2016, 10:59:39 PM
Of course Elal wouldn't care if it really got re validated. The question at hand is if it got re validated which it looks like it did. Although  I have had denied boarding at the gate even though there was a BP for reasons that I know, but again it shows having a BP doesnt mean you are OK to fly.
Maybe those stories also involved some schmuck at the gate..
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: MEIR613 on January 27, 2016, 11:01:28 PM
Maybe those stories also involved some schmuck at the gate..
It had nothing to do with the GA, I can promise you that.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: chff on January 27, 2016, 11:33:51 PM
Well, you know what the case there was, the pax had a BP and was good to go but when the airline realized that he skipped a segament they just suspended the ticket. That is a valid reason.

In fact the tickets then we're not suspended as was able to use its value later (just had to pay the regular change fee). They just didn't allow it for travel at that time as a segment(s) was skipped

I said exactly what happened. Yes it was a mileage ticket. Which makes no difference.It does. See my reply to @chff. It proves what it needs to prove, LY wants to say now that it was not ticketed in F the reservation online and the BP show that it WAS.

Did you actually see the "ticket"? Was it issued properly?  Could be there was an issue with the ticket, just as I have mentioned when I had UA screw up and the pax their space on OAL.

Once had LH 'rebook' a pax of mine to LOT but forgot to "ticket" and LOT made then pay to be able to board. Took a long fight, and still haven't recovered the full comp from LH
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:42:59 PM
Really? I would say this is Alef Beis of airlines.
Of course Elal wouldn't care if it really got re validated. The question at hand is if it got re validated
I don't think that YOU want to make me repeat my self again.
Although I have had denied boarding at the gate even though there was a BP for reasons that I know, but again it shows having a BP doesnt mean you are OK to fly.
Well, you know the answer but I guess you want me to make it clear. Of course when you have a fraudulent ticket via mileage etc where the ticket in the system is perfectly fine you will be able to print a BP, but when some agent in corporate security decided that the miles were sold etc she/he canceled the ticket for that reason. NOT because the ticket was not VALID for F or anything of that sort. The point is that if I was able to print a BP for F that means that I WAS ticketed for F. And again, even they kept on changing their mind, first they said that I am ticketed in F but UA was not allowed to do that. After I convinced them that they are talking non sense they came up with the re-validation crap. Which again, is mind boggling to me and I can't understand what LY was thinking. They saw I know at least Alef Beis, and they saw that I knew that it was not even a reval, it was a brand new ticket reissue, what were they thinking? Why should I and why will I buy their crap? I guess its an Israeli thing (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23848752-post95.html)
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:51:57 PM

Did you actually see the "ticket"? Was it issued properly?  Could be there was an issue with the ticket, just as I have mentioned when I had UA screw up and the pax their space on OAL.
Yes and yes, Meir613 gave a rant when I repeated my self last time so i will not repeat it again,  ;) but check back in the thread. I sent over documentation of all the tickets to a member in this thread. And moreover
And again, even they kept on changing their mind, first they said that I am ticketed in F but UA was not allowed to do that. After I convinced them that they are talking non sense they came up with the re-validation crap.

Once had LH 'rebook' a pax of mine to LOT but forgot to "ticket" and LOT made then pay to be able to board. Took a long fight, and still haven't recovered the full comp from LH

Please, everyone, stop repeating these kind of stories. Of course I know that it happens many time especially during IROPS that tickets for other carriers are not being reissued properly and those people WILL have problems. LO was a 100% correct for not letting your pax board since there was no Eticket.

But in THIS case there WAS a proper Eticket. This is the big difference between this story and all other stories you guys are mentioning.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 27, 2016, 11:54:57 PM
ETA

The FT link above was not good. I fixed it.

Sorry,

The Management
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: MEIR613 on January 28, 2016, 12:08:21 AM
I don't think any one really thinks you are wrong, but the way you posted the whole story with all caps and emotion you brought into it can turn people off.

Starting a thead title with "HELP" in caps is a huge read flag that OP is a nOOn and doesn't know what he's talking about.

I personally think you do what you are talking about, but you are just not presenting yourself  in a professional matter rather like someone asking compensation for having to sit next to a crying baby, which most people aren'tinterested in hearing.

Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2016, 12:16:59 AM
I don't think any one really thinks you are wrong, but the way you posted the whole story with all caps and emotion you brought into it turned me off.

Starting a thead title with "HELP" in caps is a huge read flag that OP is a nOOn and doesn't know what he's talking about.

I personally think you do what you are talking about, but you are just not presenting yourself  in a professional matter rather like someone asking compensation for having to sit next to a crying baby, which most people aren'tinterested in hearing.
FTFY. Everyone here knows that I was not born today. Everyone here knows that when I open threads I am not posting in caps. I was in a lost situation and I was in a fight with the clock because I wanted to get this fixes before check-in closes and I was not going to change it all to non caps.  Sorry if that bothered you though.


I personally think you do what you are talking about,.
Thank you  :)

Now Vaytur.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: chff on January 28, 2016, 12:46:49 AM


Yes and yes, Meir613 gave a rant when I repeated my self last time so i will not repeat it again,  ;) but check back in the thread. I sent over documentation of all the tickets to a member in this thread.

Can you send it to me as well?

Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2016, 12:56:49 AM

Can you send it to me as well?
Done.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2016, 01:16:12 AM
Quote
Hi I just spoke to ronnie, He has a copy of the ticket. UA did not revalidate the ticket in F class, he was on the phone with nyc city office and it was confrimed by them that it was not revlated in F class

Ronnei told someone two days ago that he will show him a copy of the ticket showing that the pax was not ticketed in F. We are still waiting.

Oh, and Ronnei, I also know that you can edit anything in GDS anytime and just take a screenshot. Remember we are not idiots. We  will need solid documents. Don't try selling the public the same crap you sold me over the phone. Unless you wanna look like Her (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23848752-post95.html). Thanks.

If you had prepared to show for the podium the attachment below where it says Y, please note that I already did that. Manually.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on January 28, 2016, 08:54:54 AM
I don't think any one really thinks you are wrong, but the way you posted the whole story with all caps and emotion you brought into itcan turn people off.

This acutely turns me on, the felling that your right and someone that's bigger then you takes advantage thinking he will get away just motivates me to action.

As someone who lived in Israel and the US I can say that in Israel big entities really take advantage of ppl. In the US its mostly the government agencies that act that way like police, IRS ..... but in Israel I had to sue the private gas company to get a document there required to give me by law, and they replied we gave to him here you have it again.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: BKYW on January 28, 2016, 09:58:35 AM
My 2 cents is that by now since it's over advise the poster defending el al what you need for closure
(Bag fees, difference in points, etc.) as it doesn't look like you will see an apology.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ein oid melvado on January 28, 2016, 10:47:29 AM
i had same story when Lufthansa was on strike they re booked me and my wife on elal from lax and thay denied me boarding even after confirming with the elal call center that the ticket is valid there was still no one to talk to at the airport, then i asked them to buy a cash ticket just to find out that thay are fully booked
up to today after 2 month's i still didn't get a normal response from elal
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: MeirS on January 28, 2016, 10:58:37 AM
Never knew that one airline could print a BP for another airline, even they are very close

Perhaps I learn new things every day.

I thought you probably forgot the details etc.
I also once flew from TLV-LHR on LY and continued LHR-JFK on AA on one ticket. LY gave me both BPes. I left the airport in LHR, when I came back I got through security with that BP but when I got to the gate they said that I'm not checked in on AA if I don't have an AA BP. Luckily he was able to check me in at the gate since my luggage was checked through from TLV-JFK.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2016, 11:11:18 AM
i had same story when Lufthansa was on strike they re booked me and my wife on elal from lax and thay denied me boarding even after confirming with the elal call center that the ticket is valid there was still no one to talk to at the airport, then i asked them to buy a cash ticket just to find out that thay are fully booked
up to today after 2 month's i still didn't get a normal response from elal
I think I heard about that story. Were you the one who flew BA in the end?

What was LYs official reason?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ein oid melvado on January 28, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
I think I heard about that story. Were you the one who flew BA in the end?

What was LYs official reason?
i actually flew united to London and continued on sunday to tlv
they told me that there's no ticket, i should go to Lufthansa's desk and bring the ticket from them
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2016, 12:38:56 PM
i actually flew united to London and continued on sunday to tlv
they told me that there's no ticket, i should go to Lufthansa's desk and bring the ticket from them
Were you able to check in online? Who was the ticketing carrier, LH or UA?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ein oid melvado on January 28, 2016, 01:14:22 PM
Were you able to check in online? Who was the ticketing carrier, LH or UA?
lh, i actually came from las checked in with united to lax they couldn't give me bp for elal but they gave me a pass to pick up bp, online check in was not possible since they booked me when i was on the way to airport, i was able to make modifications to the booking online
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2016, 01:34:19 PM
lh, i actually came from las checked in with united to lax they couldn't give me bp for elal but they gave me a pass to pick up bp, online check in was not possible since they booked me when i was on the way to airport, i was able to make modifications to the booking online
Did you see the UA ticket number on the elal? That's what you should always be looking for.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on January 28, 2016, 01:42:56 PM
i had same story when Lufthansa was on strike they re booked me and my wife on elal from lax and thay denied me boarding even after confirming with the elal call center that the ticket is valid there was still no one to talk to at the airport, then i asked them to buy a cash ticket just to find out that thay are fully booked
up to today after 2 month's i still didn't get a normal response from elal

Filed with the DOT?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on February 01, 2016, 09:00:36 AM
@iherman  Filed with DOT?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 01, 2016, 09:32:08 AM
Well, to be honest I have to write up the whole story in details and I just didn't get a chance this week. Hopefully this week I'yh.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Jack out of the box on February 02, 2016, 06:00:54 PM
Here's the Israeli law on the matter in English published by United.
https://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/travel/destination/international/Notice-for-customers-traveling-to-or-from-Israel-English.pdf
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on February 02, 2016, 08:37:02 PM
Here's the Israeli law on the matter in English published by United.
https://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/travel/destination/international/Notice-for-customers-traveling-to-or-from-Israel-English.pdf

As this is a award class and reissued by ua it's not clear how to calculate the base fare, is it what he paid ua or is it what ua paid LY.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Jack out of the box on February 03, 2016, 05:12:30 PM
As this is a award class and reissued by ua it's not clear how to calculate the base fare, is it what he paid ua or is it what ua paid LY.
I've read through the topic in the Hebrew text of the law and I don't think that point is addressed there.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 17, 2016, 10:39:31 AM
This is getting out of Chutzpeh stage.... So I complaint to the DoT. Here is my original draft. (I took out emotions and all of the "!" in my final draft) as well as their response. This is really getting to me. She TOTALLY ignores the facts and evidence that I WAS booked properly in first class. But what is even more crazy, she does not address the issue that UA rebooked the pax in business class and was still denied boarding.
Quote
Hi, to whom it may concern.

I'm writing to let you know a very disturbing incident I had with El Al. I really hope you can let other people know about this so they know what El Al is all about and so they can plan their travel arrangements accordingly.

Here is what happened. I had my original ticket with United Airlines to fly with them from Newark to Tel Aviv in Business First class. My flight was canceled and United emailed me that I should call them and they will rebook me. I called United and they said since they have an agreement with El Al they will rebook me on their flight to Tel Aviv in First class. Perfect, right? Well, so I thought. When I got to the airport and I wanted to check in I was informed by El Al that they WILL NOT honor my ticket. I was given no reason as to why since I was a confirmed first class passenger with a boarding pass! I was not even given an apology!!!! So I went to the manager who made up right on the spot... That United had no right to book El Al first class. I tried telling the manger that as sad as it sounds he just does not understand the rules... United pays to El Al whatever they book on El Al and United confirmed that since I was a Business First passenger with them they CAN rebook me on El Al first. I called United which was very sorry but said that there is no way they can fight with the clueless El Al manager in the airport. So I asked them to rebook the ticket in El Al business class so El Al will have no claim. She looked up and checked El Al availability and found one seat and rebooked my ticket in business class. I went back to the again "clueless" manager and he was able to confirm that United has rebooked me in business class but at that point he simply said "you are not flying in business class with us" when I told him that this is against the DoT rules and its called denied boarding, he started laughing and just said "we are El Al, we have are own rules" and there is where it ended. Not even an apology! Crazy! We all heard about airlines deny boarding because they are oversold etc but they all at least feel bad and apologize! Not only that, I said look I am fine to sit in economy because you were overbooked but at least let me check in 2 bags like a business class passenger. But again he simply laughed and said NO! And when I said about DoT rules he was simply laughing. How could such an airline still operate?

Here is the deal, I demand full denied boarding compensation as it states on the DoT website.

"If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1300 maximum)."

A one way fare for the first class I was booked in is $6641.90, so I demand the maximum $1300 in compensation. Plus an apology for the El Al kind of behavior....

Now in order to avoid the going back and forth that El Al will try to do I wanna say everything that they will try to tell, all the non sense. They are gonna try to lie and say that I was not ticketed in first or business class. Sorry El Al but how can you say such non sense? The DoT is smart enough to KNOW that if YOUR system, YOUR website was able to print out a boarding pass for me THAT MEANS that I was ticketed in first class. All was good until the agent manually cancelled it for whatever reason. They may wanna try to make up that United may not book me in their first class, that is full of non sense. United confirmed otherwise. Let El Al bring documentation saying that. There isn't any. And even if there is, what would be the reason to deny boarding after I was ticketed in Business class? All in all, classic El Al.. Shame on you! Attached is the live evidence from the tickets from the El Al website. What a shame!!! Shame on you El Al!

And here is the response I got.

Quote
Dear Mrs. *******
 
Your email to U.S. Department of Transportation was forwarded to El Al's customer relations department for my response.
 
I am sorry for the inconvenience that you were caused at JFK airport when you were re-booked by United Airlines on the 25th January 2016.
 
After a thorough investigation, we would like to advise you that the cashier at JFK detected before the check-in was opened (4 hours prior to departure) that you were booked as a first class passenger by United and you were actually holding an economy fare base ticket.   Our staff contacted our reservation manager who confirmed that there was a serious error and you must either be downgraded or pay for the difference in fare.
 
You were met at check-in and informed of the error.  You were offered free economy plus seats which you refused.
 
Unfortunately, I must respectfully decline to offer you compensation due to the above explanation.
 
I respectfully request that you contact the carrier who issued the ticket for further assistance.
 
I hope that your future flights will prove to be free of any problems and to your full satisfaction.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Caroline Low - Customer Relations
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: SearchGuy on February 17, 2016, 11:17:12 AM
Quote
and you were actually holding an economy fare base ticket.
Hmmm...
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Emkay on February 17, 2016, 12:08:57 PM
This is getting out of Chutzpeh stage.... So I complaint to the DoT. Here is my original draft. (I took out emotions and all of the "!" in my final draft) as well as their response. This is really getting to me. She TOTALLY ignores the facts and evidence that I WAS booked properly in first class. But what is even more crazy, she does not address the issue that UA rebooked the pax in business class and was still denied boarding.
And here is the response I got.
Wow
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: yelped on February 17, 2016, 12:22:20 PM
Wow. Let us know what happens next.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on February 17, 2016, 12:48:00 PM
INSANE!
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: SearchGuy on February 17, 2016, 01:00:35 PM
Quote
Plus an apology for the El Al existence....
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: TimT on February 17, 2016, 01:06:06 PM
Crazy
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on February 17, 2016, 01:07:52 PM
But United breaks guitars
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 17, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
I wrote back. Lets see how it plays out. I really can not imagine my self that I will ever hear from EL AL saying "We Are Sorry", I don't think they ever felt that it is necessary to they that, but I will try..
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: benjie1305 on February 17, 2016, 01:45:21 PM
I wrote back. Lets see how it plays out. I really can not imagine my self that I will ever hear from EL AL saying "We Are Sorry", I don't think they ever felt that it is necessary to they that, but I will try..

Of course they won't. That was clear from the first interaction you had with the ElAl rep.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on February 17, 2016, 01:48:06 PM
Maybe try SCC?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: yochiek93 on February 17, 2016, 01:59:06 PM
When will elal learn
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on February 17, 2016, 02:01:36 PM
When will elal learn

Never.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: aradisc on February 17, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
Economy base fare ticket? Who cares if it's technically a Y-UP, many business/first fares nowadays are on an economy fare basis, and it's frequently opaque to the consumer.

Was it Y-UP or similar or are they just making up excuses?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 17, 2016, 07:22:39 PM
Economy base fare ticket? Who cares if it's technically a Y-UP, many business/first fares nowadays are on an economy fare basis, and it's frequently opaque to the consumer.

Was it Y-UP or similar or are they just making up excuses?
It was an award tkt. I class. I don't think I class has Y-UP fare basis. AFAIK only deeply discounted domestic first class fare classes are Y-UP fare basis.

And besides that, don't forget that the original excuse was not even that. Originally they only said that UA can not rebook into their first class. Only after UA rebooked the pax in J they come up with the new lie.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ExGingi on February 18, 2016, 12:31:51 PM
Let's wait and see how they come back now, but in all honesty, the only way we might get any change, is by making this a lot more public. Let this be a PR NIGHTMARE for ELAL in both the US and Israel. I think that might be the only way they might learn something about customer (or even human) relations, let alone customer service.

It's 16 years and counting since I last flew ELAL. They rightfully earned my ban. Other airlines were benefactors of this, including paid J tickets.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 24, 2016, 11:13:53 AM
So here is the response I got. Denied cabin is not denied boarding.  :o

Thank you for your follow up message.
 
United Airlines and EL AL Israel (EL AL) have provided us with all the information we requested  in regards to your case and we have completed our review.

Based on the information you and the reservation information which both carriers provided us, we conclude that we cannot pursue the incident mentioned in your complaint as the DOT has no enforcement jurisdiction.  United reviewed the booking with us and advised this was an Award ticket booking. Your original ticket was booked on 12/22/15 and the class of service was booked in Economy.  However, on January 14, 2016 it was exchanged and upgraded to Business/First and you paid the additional miles to do so.
El AL clearly read the fare basis code on the ticket incorrectly as an error and advised you could be downgraded or pay the difference in fare.
 
Additionally, EL AL provided our office with the passenger data on this flight, it was not in an oversold situation. Each class, First, Business and Economy on flight LY 2/ January 25, 2016 all had available seats in each of those cabins.

 

Although this incident represents poor handling and customer service, as the flight was not in an oversold situation; the conclusion is involuntary denied boarding compensation under Rule 14 CFR section 250 would not be due in this instance.

 
If a consumer is seeking financial restitution, they have the right to pursue that action thru their local jurisdiction such as small claims courts.   Furthermore, a full detailed investigation typically is not the result of a single complaint, but results from a noticeable trend in a carriers patterns or practices.  Lastly, any civil penalties collected as a result of an investigation is payable to the US Treasury and not individual consumers.

We are concerned about your experience with EL AL.  We will continue to review and monitor EL AL to determine the extent to which the carrier is in compliance with our regulations and to track trends or spot areas of concern which we feel may warrant further action in the future.

Although we do not mediate individual consumer complaints, we have entered your complaint in our computerized industry monitoring system, and it will be charged to the company in our monthly Air Travel Consumer Report.  This report is widely distributed and made available to the news media and the general public so that both consumers and air travel companies can compare the complaint records of individual airlines and tour operators.  This system also serves as a basis for rulemaking, legislation and research.  These complaints are also routinely reviewed to determine the extent to which carriers are in compliance with our regulations and to track trends or spot areas of concern which we feel may warrant further action in the future.

 
Any additional information you provide will be added to your case.
 
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to review this matter.
 
Sincerely,
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on February 24, 2016, 11:17:35 AM
Wow!!!! That sucks!!!!

You going to court?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 24, 2016, 11:33:10 AM
Probably.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Chapshnell on February 24, 2016, 12:22:03 PM
Probably.

you should, good luck.. hopefully that Ronnie guy will have to show up & answer for himself
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Sig on February 24, 2016, 01:27:08 PM
Small claims court is cheap and easy, highly recommend you give it a try.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 24, 2016, 08:21:36 PM
Well, the DoT rep assigned to my case should change his signature from

Aviation Consumer Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings

to

Aviation Airline Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings

When I asked him why I am not eligible for DB compensation since I was booked in J and was denied J he answered as follows. This is beyond... What should be the difference if there were actually oversold or not..

Dear Mr. ************

Allow me to clarify, denied boarding for a flight that was not in an oversold situation is not a regulated area.  It does not fall under Rule 250 Overbooking,  that you have provided in the link in the email from your attorney.  We do not required airlines to provide compensation in this instance, however, some airlines would offer a good will gesture. This is entirely up to them. 
 
The Department notes that much of the complaint relates to the perceived actions of the customer service agent and manager.  These are customer service issues that do not implicate 14 CFR Part 250.  As such, the Department is unable to assist in that area, we do not mediate individual consumer complaints nor negotiate compensation for consumers.

At this juncture, there is no information that the carrier is in violation of our regulation as the carrier states the flight went out with available seats in all cabins, as previously noted.

Again, it does not appear that EL AL has violated any of our regulations and the Department does not mediate between consumers and carriers.  Therefore, if you  feel additional financial compensation is warranted, they have the right to pursue the matter in the courts, such as small claims courts within their local jurisdiction.

I hope this information is helpful.
Sincerely,

***** ******
Aviation Consumer Airline Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: yelped on February 24, 2016, 08:42:59 PM
Does it say in their regulations that the reason for denying boarding has to be due to overbooking? Or just that it has to be a valid reason, such as health, security etc. Also, can't you sue them under the Israeli Aviation law as well?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: cholent on February 24, 2016, 11:25:33 PM
Does it say in their regulations that the reason for denying boarding has to be due to overbooking? Or just that it has to be a valid reason, such as health, security etc. Also, can't you sue them under the Israeli Aviation law as well?
Just looked it up and yes it specifically refers to denied boarding due to overbooking. It also says that moving a passenger to a lower class is acceptable, they just need to refund the fare difference
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 25, 2016, 12:02:15 AM
Just looked it up and yes it specifically refers to denied boarding due to overbooking. It also says that moving a passenger to a lower class is acceptable, they just need to refund the fare difference
Where did you see that? On elal.com?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: cholent on February 25, 2016, 12:18:32 AM
Where did you see that? On elal.com?
I googled "denied boarding compensation" and found the law
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 25, 2016, 09:46:09 AM
I googled "denied boarding compensation" and found the law
Link?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: cholent on February 25, 2016, 09:47:59 AM
Link?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-250

Good luck! Hope you get fair compensation anyway
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mawmaw on February 25, 2016, 08:38:21 PM
IME SCC is a good way to go grate chance Elal wont show up
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: username on February 25, 2016, 08:42:11 PM
If they lose in SCC, can they blacklist you for revenge?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Venilla on February 25, 2016, 08:44:58 PM
If they lose in SCC, can they blacklist you for revenge?
They could do whatever they want...
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ExGingi on February 25, 2016, 09:07:26 PM
They could do whatever they want...
They might, but depending on what you mean by blacklisting, it might be illegal.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Los Ram on February 27, 2016, 03:54:55 PM
Hi

I had the exact same story as iHerman on Jan 25th was booked on UA 84 in I class (Business Class Award) and i got the UA agent to put me on LY in business class on that same flight LY002 and i made sure the UA ticket # was on the LY ticket and i had a seat assignment and had no issues. ;) ;)(sometimes its better to not to to over do it by getting a mileage ticket to be rebooked in first)

Of course you cant compare LY J class to UA but to get to israel on that day there was no other option.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on February 27, 2016, 04:19:17 PM
Hi

I had the exact same story as iHerman on Jan 25th was booked on UA 84 in I class (Business Class Award) and i got the UA agent to put me on LY in business class on that same flight LY002 and i made sure the UA ticket # was on the LY ticket and i had a seat assignment and had no issues. ;) ;)(sometimes its better to not to to over do it by getting a mileage ticket to be rebooked in first)

Of course you cant compare LY J class to UA but to get to israel on that day there was no other option.

Did you check in at the airport?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Emkay on February 27, 2016, 04:29:54 PM




Of course you cant compare LY J class to UA

Most def can
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on February 27, 2016, 11:16:53 PM
Hi

I had the exact same story as iHerman on Jan 25th was booked on UA 84 in I class (Business Class Award) and i got the UA agent to put me on LY in business class on that same flight LY002 and i made sure the UA ticket # was on the LY ticket and i had a seat assignment and had no issues. ;) ;)(sometimes its better to not to to over do it by getting a mileage ticket to be rebooked in first)

Of course you cant compare LY J class to UA but to get to israel on that day there was no other option.
This is gotta be Ronnie lol
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Chapshnell on February 27, 2016, 11:19:17 PM
This is gotta be Ronnie lol

or someone from elal. first post on ddf  ;)
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Myccrabbi on February 27, 2016, 11:20:29 PM
or someone from elal. first post on ddf  ;)
+1
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Joe4007 on February 27, 2016, 11:48:16 PM
or someone from elal. first post on ddf  ;)
Nah. They'd never say that LY J can't compare to UA...
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Matovu on February 28, 2016, 12:00:48 AM
This is gotta be Ronnie lol
Good, at least they know tbey did somthing wrong and their responding.
Plus the forums is a vehicle for negative coverage.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on February 28, 2016, 12:08:17 AM
Hi

I had the exact same story as iHerman on Jan 25th was booked on UA 84 in I class (Business Class Award) and i got the UA agent to put me on LY in business class on that same flight LY002 and i made sure the UA ticket # was on the LY ticket and i had a seat assignment and had no issues. ;) ;)(sometimes its better to not to to over do it by getting a mileage ticket to be rebooked in first)

Of course you cant compare LY J class to UA but to get to israel on that day there was no other option.
Yah, but I was also rebooked in business class.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Los Ram on February 28, 2016, 07:45:04 AM
Did you check in at the airport?
[/quote

Online check in, but checked bags at the airport
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Los Ram on February 28, 2016, 07:50:08 AM
I am not either a El AL Fan (for different reasons) i just think it's not worth to abuse the system.


Attached is copy of my UA receipt just in case you think the story is not true.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: jaywhy on February 28, 2016, 08:05:34 AM
I had a similar story this past week. I was flying in DL J class which was overbooked. DL rebooked us into LY F. We went to the LY checkin counter and were almost fully checked in and already had assigned seats when the manager realized that they oversold their J cabin and were going to upgrade pax to F. They then denied us boarding and claimed that DL oversold LY F, which was a complete lie. The cabin was F3 when DL booked us two seats on it into F class. Then they said that they could accommodate us if we purchased full fare F tickets on LY ticket stock and then later changed their mind when we said that we would do that. They also refused to give us any compensation or a hotel voucher.
In short, classic EL AL incompetence and rude disregard for anything remotely resembling customer service.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: benjie1305 on February 28, 2016, 08:08:26 AM
I had a similar story this past week. I was flying in DL J class which was overbooked. DL rebooked us into LY F. We went to the LY checkin counter and were almost fully checked in and already had assigned seats when the manager realized that they oversold their J cabin and were going to upgrade pax to F. They then denied us boarding and claimed that DL oversold LY F, which was a complete lie. The cabin was F3 when DL booked us two seats on it into F class. Then they said that they could accommodate us if we purchased full fare F tickets on LY ticket stock and then later changed their mind when we said that we would do that. They also refused to give us any compensation or a hotel voucher.
In short, classic EL AL incompetence and rude disregard for anything remotely resembling customer service.

Did you point this out to them? Did you confront them about their blatant lie? If so, what was the response?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: jaywhy on February 28, 2016, 08:15:53 AM
Did you point this out to them? Did you confront them about their blatant lie? If so, what was the response?
Of course I did. They said no it wasn't really true and DL overbooked their F class.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: benjie1305 on February 28, 2016, 08:24:24 AM
Of course I did. They said no it wasn't really true and DL overbooked their F class.

Wow. What a chuzpa *as usual*. Anyway of proving them otherwise? Or is it all covered up at this point?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Emkay on February 28, 2016, 10:41:26 AM
I had a similar story this past week. I was flying in DL J class which was overbooked. DL rebooked us into LY F. We went to the LY checkin counter and were almost fully checked in and already had assigned seats when the manager realized that they oversold their J cabin and were going to upgrade pax to F. They then denied us boarding and claimed that DL oversold LY F, which was a complete lie. The cabin was F3 when DL booked us two seats on it into F class. Then they said that they could accommodate us if we purchased full fare F tickets on LY ticket stock and then later changed their mind when we said that we would do that. They also refused to give us any compensation or a hotel voucher.
In short, classic EL AL incompetence and rude disregard for anything remotely resembling customer service.
What ended up happening? What did you end up flying?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: SearchGuy on February 28, 2016, 11:45:33 AM
I think class action lawsuit would work much better, team up with ilherman, you actually have a much better case since you were denied boarding because of oversold.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: SearchGuy on February 28, 2016, 11:46:34 AM
I had a similar story this past week. I was flying in DL J class which was overbooked. DL rebooked us into LY F. We went to the LY checkin counter and were almost fully checked in and already had assigned seats when the manager realized that they oversold their J cabin and were going to upgrade pax to F. They then denied us boarding and claimed that DL oversold LY F, which was a complete lie. The cabin was F3 when DL booked us two seats on it into F class. Then they said that they could accommodate us if we purchased full fare F tickets on LY ticket stock and then later changed their mind when we said that we would do that. They also refused to give us any compensation or a hotel voucher.
In short, classic EL AL incompetence and rude disregard for anything remotely resembling customer service.
I hope you recorded everything at least
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ExGingi on February 28, 2016, 02:47:26 PM
I hope you recorded everything at least
What good would a recording do? ELAL arrogance is not likely to change anytime soon. They have a business model that works for them.

Their planes are full despite their arrogance, inferior product (J), inferior loyalty program (no airline partners, and huge YQ).

So as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". It works for THEM, and that is precisely the reason why I DON'T FLY LY!
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: jaywhy on February 28, 2016, 02:49:47 PM
What ended up happening? What did you end up flying?
DL rebooked on LX J.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: chff on February 28, 2016, 07:06:38 PM


and huge YQ).

Actually their YQ is better then Star/Sky
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Dan on February 28, 2016, 07:10:02 PM
Keep filing those DoT complaints folks.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: frozy on February 28, 2016, 07:23:29 PM
I am not either a El AL Fan (for different reasons) i just think it's not worth to abuse the system.


Attached is copy of my UA receipt just in case you think the story is not true.
Lol of course you got rebooked by UA. Noone is casting doubt on their integrity (at least not in this thread...)
But did elal honor the fare is the question
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: HolyNyc on February 28, 2016, 08:21:26 PM
Lol of course you got rebooked by UA. Noone is casting doubt on their integrity (at least not in this thread...)
But did elal honor the fare is the question
-1 you are not following
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on February 29, 2016, 12:49:05 AM
Keep filing those DoT complaints folks.

What will that accomplish?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ad120 on February 29, 2016, 11:56:30 PM
What will that accomplish?
+1
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ad120 on March 01, 2016, 12:00:39 AM
I am really starting to thik of flying WizzAir over LY from WAW to TLV.
While hate is a strong word, I HATE El Al. Seriously, I hate when airlines make sh*t up and expect us to eat it.
And when they do, I'm like "Nigga, you don't know who you be dealin wit hea."
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on March 01, 2016, 12:03:46 AM
What will that accomplish?

Do they get fined if there are a lot?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: SearchGuy on March 01, 2016, 06:54:23 AM
After a lot of complains the DOT opens an investigation
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: D93 on March 01, 2016, 07:08:33 AM
After a lot of complains the DOT opens an investigation

But if they aren't violating any DOT regulations, how would an investigation help?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: SearchGuy on March 01, 2016, 07:12:10 AM

But if they aren't violating any DOT regulations, how would an investigation help?
A complaint is a complaint, they can still audit then on their general handling of customers
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ad120 on March 01, 2016, 09:51:29 AM
A complaint is a complaint, they can still audit then on their general handling of customers
That is a slim chance imo. Elal has been doing this forever. The better option is to refuse to fly with LY.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: TimT on March 01, 2016, 09:55:12 AM
That is a slim chance imo. Elal has been doing this forever. The better option is to refuse to fly with LY.
That hasn't helped much either.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ad120 on March 01, 2016, 10:07:44 AM
That hasn't helped much either.
I am not speaking in terms of a boycott. I am speaking in terms of subjecting yourself to such behavior.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on March 01, 2016, 10:09:44 AM

Quote
Thank you for your follow up.
 
To clarify the process, when we receive any complaint of dissatisfaction from a consumer, we forward those concerns on to the carrier for a response back to the consumer.  If the complaint falls under one of our regulated areas ie, Disability, Discrimination, Oversales, Luggage, timeliness of Refunds, Notifications, Advertising, we will ask to be copied in on the carriers response.

Upon receiving the response we will analyze the case and determine if any of our regulations have been violated.  The Department does not mediate between consumers and carriers.  If a consumer is seeking financial restitution, they have the right to pursue that action thru their local jurisdiction such as small claims courts.   Furthermore, a full detailed investigation typically is not the result of a single complaint, but results from a noticeable trend in a carriers patterns or practices.  Lastly, any civil penalties collected as a result of an investigation is payable to the US Treasury and not individual consumers.
 
With regards to your particular case, it does not fall under Rule 250 Overbooking.  We do not have jurisdiction to demand the carrier provide you compensation.
 
We will continue to review and monitor EL AL to determine the extent to which the carrier is in compliance with our regulations and to track trends or spot areas of concern which we feel may warrant further action in the future. Once again, we also note that if you are not happy with EL ALs handling of your concerns, you may pursue a private right of action with the courts and, in such a proceeding, monetary damages may be sought. 

Your complaint has been entered in our computerized complaint monitoring system and will be charged against EL AL in the Consumer Complaint section of the Air Travel Consumer Report.

We have added all the information to you case and have closed the case. Any additional information you provide will be added to your case. 


Sincerely,

Peter Cacioppo
Aviation Consumer Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings

So Peter Cacioppo should urgently change his underline to

Aviation Airline Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings
  HT: FT.

Otherwise it is very misleading....   

After sending very clear proof that the flight WAS booked solid in J he still ignores the facts. Just like El Al themselves would handle it. And after googling his name I see that FT'rs love him as well...

Oh well. So now will have to start with SCC.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on March 01, 2016, 10:17:50 AM
So Peter Cacioppo should urgently change his underline to

Aviation Airline Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings
  HT: FT.

Otherwise it is very misleading....   

After sending very clear proof that the flight WAS booked solid in J he still ignores the facts. Just like El Al themselves would handle it. And after googling his name I see that FT'rs love him as well...

Oh well. So now will have to start with SCC.

Not too familiar, but what rule did you say El Al violated? He's right that 250 wasn't violated here from a technical sense. That doesn't mean what El Al did was legal.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on March 01, 2016, 10:36:05 AM
Someone told me they where in Brooklyn small claims court last week and a few cases where ppl suing airlines (one frum couple suing spirt), it may put the biggest pressure on them if they start being hit with lawsuits.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on March 01, 2016, 10:39:08 AM
Not too familiar, but what rule did you say El Al violated? He's right that 250 wasn't violated here from a technical sense. That doesn't mean what El Al did was legal.
That they denied boarding on a overbooked flight. He claims that the flight was not overbooked so no compensation due.  :o
Title: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: EJB on March 01, 2016, 10:41:54 AM
That they denied boarding on a overbooked flight. He claims that the flight was not overbooked so no compensation due.  :o

Was it or wasn't it overbooked? The fact that he was ticketed in J or F doesn't make it overbooked.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: mgarfin on March 01, 2016, 10:44:03 AM
Was it or wasn't it overbooked? The fact that he was ticketed in J or F doesn't make it overbooked.

How do know/prove a flight is overbooked?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Jkhein on March 01, 2016, 10:55:31 AM
How do know/prove a flight is overbooked?
they can provide a flight manifest to the dot etc
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on March 01, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
they can provide a flight manifest to the dot etc
And they can also modify the manifest as needed. Don't forget this is El Al.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: Ergel on March 01, 2016, 11:03:37 AM
Who cares. You wouldn't get the cash anyways?
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: ilherman on March 01, 2016, 11:06:53 AM
Who cares. You wouldn't get the cash anyways?
As funny as it sounds, this is correct.
Title: Re: HELP ELAL DENIES BOARDING FOR NO REASON
Post by: yelped on March 01, 2016, 12:47:54 PM
As funny as it sounds, this is correct.
He wants to be a good travel agent and keep a good customer. And hope to see El Al improve its customer service 😜