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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: yochiek93 on March 01, 2016, 10:58:56 PM

Title: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 01, 2016, 10:58:56 PM
.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on March 01, 2016, 11:05:05 PM
.
Ha! Love Lakewood people. The best way to get kosher lettuce to get is andy boy and check it yourself.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 01, 2016, 11:13:54 PM
Ha! Love Lakewood people. The best way to get kosher lettuce to get is andy boy and check it yourself.
+1
What's wrong with checking lettuce?


https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.dansdeals.com%2Findex.php?topic=43342.0&share_tid=43342&share_fid=16768
Do you check your lettuce; which method do you use?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 01, 2016, 11:19:29 PM


+1
What's wrong with checking lettuce?


http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=43342.0
Do you check your lettuce; which method do you use?
ftfy

Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Ydad on March 01, 2016, 11:20:45 PM
+1 DW was really glad to see Andy boy lettuce in GG. Used to buy it in WM cause no other stores (read:coop) sells it.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 01, 2016, 11:23:11 PM


+1 DW was really glad to see Andy boy lettuce in GG. Used to buy it in WM cause no other stores (read:coop) sells it.

Btw Kosher West sells it.

Not sure about strawberry though. Fwiu they are not checkable.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 01, 2016, 11:26:19 PM

Btw Kosher West sells it.

Not sure about strawberry though. Fwiu they are not checkable.
Not to get into a halachic debate here can't you wash the strawberrys
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: etech0 on March 01, 2016, 11:29:29 PM
Not to get into a halachic debate here can't you wash the strawberrys
Depends who you ask. Some people say you can, some people say you can't, and some people say that the people who say you can are wrong.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: TimT on March 01, 2016, 11:29:49 PM
.
Where's this from ?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 01, 2016, 11:30:27 PM
Where's this from ?
I got it on WhatsApp
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 01, 2016, 11:30:36 PM
Not to get into a halachic debate here can't you wash the strawberrys
Fwiu, the broad consensus of kashrus experts/agencies is that thoroughly washing strawberries is no longer effective at removing bugs.

I personally don't understand how the "bodek" frozen whole ones are clean, but the do have a hechsher.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: TimT on March 01, 2016, 11:36:27 PM
I got it on WhatsApp
"Can't sell most of the stuff what they sell in lakewood" "and many more issue" :o
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 01, 2016, 11:39:36 PM
"Can't sell most of the stuff what they sell in lakewood" "and many more issue" :o
That's the only problem with this?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 01, 2016, 11:41:18 PM
"Can't sell most of the stuff what they sell in lakewood" "and many more issue" :o
Whoever said it takes brains to write such a thing up?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: TimT on March 01, 2016, 11:41:27 PM
That's the only problem with this?
The most pressing :)
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: etech0 on March 01, 2016, 11:46:04 PM
"Can't sell most of the stuff what they sell in lakewood" "and many more issue" :o
Some people don't just have issues - they have a year's subscription.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 01, 2016, 11:58:48 PM
Fwiu, the broad consensus of kashrus experts/agencies is that thoroughly washing strawberries is no longer effective at removing bugs.

I personally don't understand how the "bodek" frozen whole ones are clean, but the do have a hechsher.
I heard that cutting off the leafs along with a portion of the fruit and then peeling off all of the peel and seeds is OK.
Not a baal taiva's pick, though...  :P

DISCLAIMER: My post should not replace your LOR's psak in any way. I just restated what I have heard.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 02, 2016, 12:06:16 AM
Fwiu, the broad consensus of kashrus experts/agencies is that thoroughly washing strawberries is no longer effective at removing bugs.

I personally don't understand how the "bodek" frozen whole ones are clean, but the do have a hechsher.


These kashrus authorities feel you can clean strawberries

http://www.ok.org/assets/files/OK_Veggie_Checking_Guide.pdf (http://www.ok.org/assets/files/OK_Veggie_Checking_Guide.pdf)
http://www.crcweb.org/fruit%20&%20veg%20guide.php (http://www.crcweb.org/fruit%20&%20veg%20guide.php)
http://www.star-k.org/articles/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/kyk2015-05_May1.pdf (http://www.star-k.org/articles/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/kyk2015-05_May1.pdf)
https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-to-checking-produce-and-more/ (https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-to-checking-produce-and-more/)
https://www.kof-k.org/docs/CheckVegetablesForBugs.pdf (https://www.kof-k.org/docs/CheckVegetablesForBugs.pdf)

Bodek makes sure to get crops which are not infested and early in the season.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: elya on March 02, 2016, 06:53:44 AM
Fwiu, the broad consensus of kashrus experts/agencies is that thoroughly washing strawberries is no longer effective at removing bugs.

I personally don't understand how the "bodek" frozen whole ones are clean, but the do have a hechsher.
I personally spoke to 2 very Choshuve Rabbanim, and both gave me the exact process of how to go about cleaning strawberries. Its a huge PITA, but its possible, and to say that its 100% not Kosher is just wrong!
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 02, 2016, 07:09:40 AM




Not sure about strawberry though. Fwiu they are not checkable.

The fresh strawberries I had last night were quite delicious
Fwiu, the broad consensus of kashrus experts/agencies is that thoroughly washing strawberries is no longer effective at removing bugs.

I personally don't understand how the "bodek" frozen whole ones are clean, but the do have a hechsher.
You can just ask and it can be explained to you
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 07:19:37 AM
These kashrus authorities feel you can clean strawberries

http://www.ok.org/assets/files/OK_Veggie_Checking_Guide.pdf (http://www.ok.org/assets/files/OK_Veggie_Checking_Guide.pdf)
http://www.crcweb.org/fruit%20&%20veg%20guide.php (http://www.crcweb.org/fruit%20&%20veg%20guide.php)
http://www.star-k.org/articles/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/kyk2015-05_May1.pdf (http://www.star-k.org/articles/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/kyk2015-05_May1.pdf)
https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-to-checking-produce-and-more/ (https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-to-checking-produce-and-more/)
https://www.kof-k.org/docs/CheckVegetablesForBugs.pdf (https://www.kof-k.org/docs/CheckVegetablesForBugs.pdf)

Bodek makes sure to get crops which are not infested and early in the season.
Interesting. This is how we washed strawberies all the years.

A few years ago supposedly something changed and the washing was deemed ineffective.

Either I have been misinformed, or these hechsherim are the minority opinion..

Though I get the feeling that even these hechsherim would admit that there is a big mokom to be machmir.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: coralsnake on March 02, 2016, 09:19:34 AM
.
Youd think they were selling pork bellies.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Boruch999 on March 02, 2016, 09:42:31 AM
Youd think they were selling pork bellies.

You can't rinse pork bellies?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: ShlockDoc on March 02, 2016, 09:50:52 AM
A few years ago supposedly something changed and the washing was deemed ineffective.

there is a big mokom to be machmir.

Maybe that's what changed a few years ago.  The rush to chumrahs...
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 02, 2016, 10:57:43 AM
Either I have been misinformed, or these hechsherim are the minority opinion..
Considering that these are every major hechsher it would be difficult to call a minority opinion.

Interesting. This is how we washed strawberies all the years.

A few years ago supposedly something changed and the washing was deemed ineffective.

Though I get the feeling that even these hechsherim would admit that there is a big mokom to be machmir.
There are groups of people (you know who some of them are) who go around find chumros especially regarding tolaim even though they are ignorant about siman 84. These are the same people who were writing shtiklach torah about worms in fish based on a line out of a 2 blatt sugya and a half a seif out of a 17 seif siman.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 11:03:11 AM
Maybe.. Going to look into this more. I have been painfully peeling strawberies for the last couple of years. Don't remember the details now, but I'm pretty sure I started this minhag based on solid evidence.

Il research it when I get time bln.

But even one of the links you posted says to "look carefully for the PINK colored insects on the strawberry", and to stay away from Mexican ones.
 - Not sure how comfortable I am with all that.

Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 02, 2016, 11:26:58 AM
Considering that these are every major hechsher it would be difficult to call a minority opinion.
There are groups of people (you know who some of them are) who go around find chumros especially regarding tolaim even though they are ignorant about siman 84. These are the same people who were writing shtiklach torah about worms in fish based on a line out of a 2 blatt sugya and a half a seif out of a 17 seif siman.
+1
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 11:32:57 AM
Seems to be some back and forth on this. 2007 the consensus was that strawberies are impossible to clean.
It seems like things have improved.

http://kosherpoint.com/what-can-be-wrong-with-that/strawberries/
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 12:09:40 PM
Seems to be some back and forth on this. 2007 the consensus was that strawberies are impossible to clean.
It seems like things have improved.

http://kosherpoint.com/what-can-be-wrong-with-that/strawberries/
I hope you're not posting that one link to prove that there was any sort of 'consensus'. You can check with each of the organizations aygart linked to, but I don't believe any of them held it was categorically impossible to check strawberries, at any point.

[ETA: This is not to say that I don't applaud people who feel there's a legitimate reason to be machmir and take that chumrah on themselves, but rather to say that it doesn't seem to have ever risen to the level where the mainstream kashrus organization felt it was necessary to state categorically that the accepted methods were no longer sufficient. And that comes back to the pic that was posted.]

On a side note, there was a lighting deal a few months ago on this AeroGrow counter-top hydroponic garden:
http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-AeroGarden-Gourmet-Herb-Seed/dp/B010NBJMLI/?tag=cl03f-20
We picked one up (actually ended up with 2 of them for just $70 - gotta love Amazon CS) and have been growing the herbs that it came with. It's nice not to have to check any of it. We're thinking of getting all romaine lettuce for the next round for the same reason.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: dealfinder85 on March 02, 2016, 12:12:17 PM
I hope you're not posting that one link to prove that there was any sort of 'consensus'. You can check with each of the organizations aygart linked to, but I don't believe any of them held it was categorically impossible to check strawberries, at any point.

On a side note, there was a lighting deal a few months ago on this AeroGrow counter-top hydroponic garden:
http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-AeroGarden-Gourmet-Herb-Seed/dp/B010NBJMLI/?tag=cl03f-20
We picked one up (actually ended up with 2 of them for just $70 - gotta love Amazon CS) and have been growing the herbs that it came with. It's nice not to have to check any of it. We're thinking of getting all romaine lettuce for the next round for the same reason.
sell it in KGH
shouldnt be hard to sell for cheaper than the bodek bags
FWIW, Star K's shita regarding this is different than many of the other organizations.  They rely on a kula regarding determining the chazaka, and therefore many wont eat the lettuce in the fresh express bags with the star k hechsher (I still dont get how some bags have the hechsher and some dont)
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
sell it in KGH
shouldnt be hard to sell for cheaper than the bodek bags
FWIW, Star K's shita regarding this is different than many of the other organizations.  They rely on a kula regarding determining the chazaka, and therefore many wont eat the lettuce in the fresh express bags with the star k hechsher (I still dont get how some bags have the hechsher and some dont)
Lol, it doesn't grow quite that much. I'm sure even when if we do lettuce next, it won't be enough that my wife will never have to buy more lettuce while it's growing/producing.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: elya on March 02, 2016, 12:23:41 PM
Interesting. This is how we washed strawberies all the years.

A few years ago supposedly something changed and the washing was deemed ineffective.

Either I have been misinformed, or these hechsherim are the minority opinion..

Though I get the feeling that even these hechsherim would admit that there is a big mokom to be machmir.
BTW fruit stores in Yerushalayim under the BADATZ sell fresh strawberries!!!!
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 02, 2016, 12:26:18 PM
BTW fruit stores in Yerushalayim under the BADATZ sell fresh strawberries!!!!
Scandalous
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on March 02, 2016, 12:26:30 PM
BTW fruit stores in Yerushalayim under the BADATZ sell fresh strawberries!!!!
Depending on where you grow the strawberries you may be able to get less buggy ones.
Maybe they get it from a different place than America does.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: elya on March 02, 2016, 12:26:34 PM
Scandalous
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: elya on March 02, 2016, 12:30:34 PM
Depending on where you grow the strawberries you may be able to get less buggy ones.
Well that's what the store owner tried selling me.

However I personally called the BADATZ, and they said that their Hashgacha is only on Terumos/Maasros, but they allow them to sell it being that there are ways to clean them.

But that their Hashgacha does not have any implications regarding the bug problem, for that he recommended I call my LOR as to how to clean them.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yakov116 on March 02, 2016, 12:31:59 PM
From what my understanding in the last few years the stoped the use of some pesticides (the FDA stopped allowing) therefore it became a big problem.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: hachover on March 02, 2016, 12:37:32 PM
On a side note, there was a lighting deal a few months ago on this AeroGrow counter-top hydroponic garden:
http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-AeroGarden-Gourmet-Herb-Seed/dp/B010NBJMLI/?tag=cl03f-20 (http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-AeroGarden-Gourmet-Herb-Seed/dp/B010NBJMLI/?tag=cl03f-20)
We picked one up (actually ended up with 2 of them for just $70 - gotta love Amazon CS) and have been growing the herbs that it came with. It's nice not to have to check any of it. We're thinking of getting all romaine lettuce for the next round for the same reason.


Come on... tell us what you're really growing
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 02, 2016, 12:38:46 PM
From what my understanding in the last few years the stoped the use of some pesticides (the FDA stopped allowing) therefore it became a big problem.

I don't think that is the case. I think it is mostly propaganda.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 12:46:58 PM

Come on... tell us what you're really growing
Well one of the herbs is weed. Dill weed specifically.

But seriously, google aerogarden and click on images. This one is in the middle of the first page of results:

(http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/4289425_f260.jpg)
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: coralsnake on March 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
On a side note, there was a lighting deal a few months ago on this AeroGrow counter-top hydroponic garden:
http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Gro-AeroGarden-Gourmet-Herb-Seed/dp/B010NBJMLI/?tag=cl03f-20
We picked one up (actually ended up with 2 of them for just $70 - gotta love Amazon CS) and have been growing the herbs that it came with. It's nice not to have to check any of it. We're thinking of getting all "romaine lettuce"  ;) for the next round for the same reason.
FTFY
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 02, 2016, 12:49:50 PM
Well one of the herbs is weed. Dill weed specifically.

But seriously, google aerogarden and click on images. This one is in the middle of the first page of results:

(http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/4289425_f260.jpg)
Nice
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 12:52:39 PM
Well one of the herbs is weed. Dill weed specifically.

But seriously, google aerogarden and click on images. This one is in the middle of the first page of results:

(http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/4289425_f260.jpg)
Is this a sealed tank?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 12:54:23 PM
Nice
Mine is much less exciting.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qqeyGfhabOX9Obr9o4uXfa39KUra41umIlvtozgKIx_5OyrHCB7tbRYYvBPo4ceiCZVuCQAXkE7D9_EmziFY6hf3VuqFOzsmzjYyz3b1b4Y7b_tMIZSMEmuKYPwFTvTiQBCK9MO4u_u4IEwB7b3mpO70FWvChFFSBtCP0pozgcga_jIlBDZlAKELJOxBDQsNTxEaKCxZM_HJN0BuJN-ULw4Jx5hPjBcQrVgcvhgh_fZsplBKzsuiTNcVWPQOSsfoVcN_Z03dakqMyhqzNZ5kOOl0WxEKQj_ovz5ZKrzKhIstlfwgmxusnRZ_b0rJWsDPuQIXVp5wP8Jmt3tk1YZhy-SXCz_tWp84dZWXD37sPyzgdWXHAMyiON9NXLvnWBfLmdNwH7Rab6foThDJRDBp96ZpuzdhQziz7NpIUXthzfqPvbEnFBeZQV6_JeT9p5S-axO3AwEFYQnfVYhRHJNFDLMovf9r9ue0W_hZuaKSw9MAr0N-BMQYsBxllYVEd0R9AqqKKk-XW4OeH-Dnb4xCGgnth7seRObgilrxf0ihk3puH73hpiXlTPq7aGF0M2zs3Jlt=w517-h919-no)
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 01:00:05 PM
Is this a sealed tank?
There's a little lid in the middle so you an fill the water level back up to the 'max' mark. I'm sure it's not airtight. It's basically a tank with a motor/fan to aerate and circulate the water, with a plastic cover that has holes to put their 'pods' in. They sell ready made pod packs (for when you finish the pack it comes with) - various herbs, greens, vegetables, and flowers, as well as do-it-yourself kits. You just fill the water tank and insert the pods, pour in some liquid nutrients whenever the indicator goes off, and harvest as it grows. It's about as easy and idiot proof as can be.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: username on March 02, 2016, 01:02:04 PM
Is this a sealed tank?
There's a little lid in the middle... It's about as easy and idiot proof as can be.
I think CBC is aking if its bug proof.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 01:03:31 PM
I think CBC is aking if its bug proof.
Right

Probably much less infested then commercially grown, but maybe not.. You're not using the pesticides that control infestation.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 02, 2016, 01:18:43 PM
Right

Probably much less infested then commercially grown, but maybe not.. You're not using the pesticides that control infestation.
+1 hydroponics does not automatically translate into bug free
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
I think CBC is aking if its bug proof.
Right

Probably much less infested then commercially grown, but maybe not.. You're not using the pesticides that control infestation.
+1 hydroponics does not automatically translate into bug free
First of all, I don't see how a sealed water tank would prevent anything anyway. Maybe you meant to ask whether the whole thing is enclosed, which it's clearly not from the pictures.

As to the question of whether it's bug-free - it is not guaranteed to be bug-free of course. However, I would point out that the same bug that you're thinking would find its way onto my aerogarden plants can find its way onto the lettuce (or other food item that normally attracts such bugs) sitting on your plate right before you eat it. The question is not whether a system is completely bug-free, but rather whether the incidence of bug infestation is common enough to warrant checking.

I'm certainly not suggesting to anyone that they take my word as a hechsher - and if anyone read my comment that way, I apologize for the confusion. Incidentally, Star-K does say that they 'certify' Aerogarden:

Quote from: http://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/1121/hydroponics/
Star-K’s certification of the AeroGarden is essentially a statement that the system is an appropriate method of controlling insects in produce.  Plants grown under controlled conditions indoors are generally free from insects which are commonly found in outdoor-grown plants.7However, we cannot guarantee that vegetables grown with the kit will be insect-free, since insects which commonly thrive indoors may find their way onto the vegetables.  In addition, in rare cases insects could possibly land on the plants by entering the home on clothes or other vegetables.  For these reasons, a cursory inspection and a washing of the vegetables before use is advised.  As an additional precaution against infestation, one may create an insect barrier by covering the garden with a mesh or cloth.

In addition to romaine and other types of lettuce, one can grow herbs such as cilantro, dill, and parsley.  Herbs are especially prone to infestation, are difficult to check, and are not widely available to the kosher consumer as ‘certified insect-free’.  The kit is helpful in controlling infestation for these varieties.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 01:37:09 PM
Also, while digging for the above, I came across the shaila of what brocha to make on this stuff, which is apparently a significant sugya. Hasn't come up yet, as the herbs have all gone onto other foods in ways that they certainly won't get their own brocha, but lettuce may actually bring up the question l'maaseh.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 02, 2016, 01:38:06 PM

Come on... tell us what you're really growing
Don't worry. It's for medical purposes...  ;D
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 02:34:26 PM


Incidentally, Star-K does say that they 'certify' Aerogarden:
Perfect
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: elya on March 02, 2016, 04:53:35 PM
From what my understanding in the last few years the stoped the use of some pesticides (the FDA stopped allowing) therefore it became a big problem.
Well stores under BADATZ, CURRENTLY sell fresh strawberries.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 04:58:56 PM
Perfect
Was this sarcastic? I honestly can't tell.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 02, 2016, 05:03:51 PM
Was this sarcastic? I honestly can't tell.
Nope, they said exactly what I was expecting to hear. For real
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: hachover on March 02, 2016, 05:22:03 PM
Don't worry. It's for medical purposes...  ;D


Worried? Far from it - my next question would have been, "Can we be friends?".
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 02, 2016, 05:40:02 PM

Worried? Far from it - my next question would have been, "Can we be friends?".
PM probably sent, so I don't think you should call it "next question"...
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 02, 2016, 06:43:55 PM
Thank G-d for Rabbanim like R' Belsky who had cool heads and didn't jump on every new chumra that popped up. Now that he's gone I feel like we'll be eating nothing but iceberg lettuce and bag snacks in a few years.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 02, 2016, 07:50:03 PM
Thank G-d for Rabbanim like R' Belsky who had cool heads and didn't jump on every new chumra that popped up. Now that he's gone I feel like we'll be eating nothing but iceberg lettuce and bag snacks in a few years.
Am I the only one that much prefers iceberg?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 02, 2016, 07:59:44 PM
Am I the only one that much prefers iceberg?
No
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Aussie88 on March 02, 2016, 08:01:38 PM
Am I the only one that much prefers iceberg?
Iceberg lettuce has about the same nutritional content as water.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: hachover on March 02, 2016, 08:04:47 PM
Iceberg lettuce has about the same nutritional content as water.


I love water!
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Dan on March 02, 2016, 08:05:27 PM

I love water!
Just be sure to check it for bugs if you're in NYC :P
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on March 02, 2016, 08:08:15 PM
Lol to the title @dan
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 02, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
Was waiting for this to happen. Either merge with the halacha thread or have its own. Should also be mentioned in the popcorn thread as something with slight potential.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: googwallet on March 02, 2016, 08:21:17 PM
So let me get this straight, someone makes silly flyer (possibly for fun) and everyone is talking about it?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 02, 2016, 08:33:24 PM
Just be sure to check it for bugs if you're in NYC :P

Not according to R' Belsky  ;D
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: etech0 on March 02, 2016, 08:34:53 PM
Was waiting for this to happen. Either merge with the halacha thread or have its own. Should also be mentioned in the popcorn thread as something with slight potential.
+1
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yochiek93 on March 02, 2016, 10:58:37 PM
Am I the only one that much prefers iceberg?
Romaine lettuce tastes better then iceberg
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Shauly101 on March 03, 2016, 11:13:12 AM
IMO GG did worse when they started selling חלב עכו''ם in Boro Park vs. selling these in the HOLY Lakewood
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: JoeyShmoe on March 03, 2016, 11:20:48 AM
IMO GG did worse when they started selling חלב עכו''ם in Boro Park vs. selling these in the HOLY Lakewood
AFAIK they posted tons of signs on the one fridge saying that it's Cholov Stam, I don't see anything wrong with that
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 03, 2016, 11:43:38 AM
Quote
author=JoeyShmoe link=topic=61150.msg1424877#msg1424877 date=1457022048?
AFAIK they posted tons of signs on the one fridge saying that it's Cholov Stam, I don't see anything wrong with that

They even post signs in 5t on things that aren't obviously chalav Stam (eg oneg cheese)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 01:21:28 PM
AFAIK they posted tons of signs on the one fridge saying that it's Cholov Stam, I don't see anything wrong with that
Seems that you never send kids to shop for you.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: JoeyShmoe on March 03, 2016, 01:27:45 PM
Seems that you never send kids to shop for you.
Well, my kids aren't old enough for that. I would tell my kid to only buy specific companies if I thought they're not old enough to understand posters about Cholov Stam.

Besides, the Cholov Stam fridge is near the freezers and has a relatively small selection while the Cholov Yisroel is on the opposite end of the refrigerator dept and has a much larger selection (at least last time I've been there). My kid would probably buy cheese that's next to the eggs and orange juice.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 01:29:27 PM
Well, my kids aren't old enough for that. I would tell my kid to only buy specific companies if I thought they're not old enough to understand posters about Cholov Stam.

Besides, the Cholov Stam fridge is near the freezers and has a relatively small selection while the Cholov Yisroel is on the opposite end of the refrigerator dept and has a much larger selection (at least last time I've been there). My kid would probably buy cheese that's next to the eggs and orange juice.
Still worse than selling strawberries in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: JoeyShmoe on March 03, 2016, 01:33:02 PM
Still worse than selling strawberries in Lakewood.
I don't necessarily see the issue with them selling strawberries in Lakewood, but I'm gonna disagree with your statement. A kid might not know that there's an issue with fresh strawberries, since they probably have frozen strawberries at home, whereas Cholov Stam is packaged differently and they wouldn't get a different type of yogurt or cheese without their Mother's permission.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: cholent on March 03, 2016, 01:34:25 PM
Still worse than selling strawberries in Lakewood.

I happen to personally clean and eat strawberries, but I still disagree with you. For those who believe that it's impossible to fully clean strawberries, you're dealing with issur of tolaim, which includes multiple issurei d'oraisa, and that's undoubtedly much worse than chalav stam
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 01:42:48 PM
My point being that cholov stam has no way of being "cleaned", and with all the new labels, types and companies of cheeses and yogurts etc. it's easily confused with cholov yisroel. Strawberries, OTOH are either off limits in those homes that maintain that they cannot be checked, and in the houses where they are checked generally everyone knows that it is something that can't be eaten before xyz is done to it.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 03, 2016, 02:43:38 PM
Re strawberries: with the top taken off, the entire peel taken off (get big/huge strawberries), and cut in the middle to check that sliver hole...whatever leftover flesh remains is yummy.  Alternatively, just puree them whole and you are good to go. (check with LOR)  The removing peel was substituted for soaking in soapy water a few years ago because of increased infestation.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: etech0 on March 03, 2016, 03:06:52 PM
Re strawberries: with the top taken off, the entire peel taken off (get big/huge strawberries), and cut in the middle to check that sliver hole...whatever leftover flesh remains is yummy.  Alternatively, just puree them whole and you are good to go. (check with LOR)  The removing peel was substituted for soaking in soapy water a few years ago because of increased infestation.
As true as it is, it always makes me laugh that we don't mind eating bugs if they're all ground up.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 03:14:01 PM
As true as it is, it always makes me laugh that we don't mind eating bugs if they're all ground up.
Halacha never permits eating bugs, so if it's permissible to eat it ground then we're not eating bugs.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2016, 03:14:16 PM
Re strawberries: with the top taken off, the entire peel taken off (get big/huge strawberries), and cut in the middle to check that sliver hole...whatever leftover flesh remains is yummy.  Alternatively, just puree them whole and you are good to go. (check with LOR)  The removing peel was substituted for soaking in soapy water a few years ago because of increased infestation.
Who did this substitution? not the major hechserim.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: dealfinder85 on March 03, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
Halacha never permits eating bugs, so if it's permissible to eat it ground then we're not eating bugs.
you sure are, they are just batel
but when they are whole, each bug is a berya, and aint batel
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
Who did this substitution? not the major hechserim.
Go back to this post, see attachment.
Seems to be some back and forth on this. 2007 the consensus was that strawberies are impossible to clean.
It seems like things have improved.

http://kosherpoint.com/what-can-be-wrong-with-that/strawberries/
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 03:17:56 PM
you sure are, they are just batel
but when they are whole, each bug is a berya, and aint batel
I knew that this thread should be merged with the halacha thread!
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: skyguy918 on March 03, 2016, 03:22:07 PM
Go back to this post, see attachment.
His point was that the major hechsherim never changed their view, so pointing out one Rov that did is not gonna change that.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 03:24:51 PM
His point was that the major hechsherim never changed their view, so pointing out one Rov that did is not gonna change that.
I'll just repeat what others say, not my own words. But R' Wei is considered the giant and mumche in tolaim.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 03, 2016, 04:10:52 PM
Re strawberries: with the top taken off, the entire peel taken off (get big/huge strawberries), and cut in the middle to check that sliver hole...whatever leftover flesh remains is yummy.  Alternatively, just puree them whole and you are good to go. (check with LOR)  The removing peel was substituted for soaking in soapy water a few years ago because of increased infestation.
Absolutely not! There is no bitul likatchila. I don't think any reputable LOR would recommend this.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Super Speed on March 03, 2016, 04:13:40 PM
People are crazy, his Rov said strawberries aren't checkable so it must be that no one disagrees. My Rov personally holds that you can eat strawberries.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Mountain Man on March 03, 2016, 04:36:48 PM
Has anyone ever seen a bug on a strawberry?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 03, 2016, 04:51:24 PM
Has anyone ever seen a bug on a strawberry?
You bet! A live, long, black thing scurrying around inside that center, sliver of a hole.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Chapshnell on March 03, 2016, 04:53:00 PM
Has anyone ever seen a bug on a strawberry?

take one & hit it on a sheet of paper.
I actually eat strawberries as there is a way to make them bug free
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 03, 2016, 05:00:59 PM
Absolutely not! There is no bitul likatchila. I don't think any reputable LOR would recommend this.
You are correct.  Not good to go.  No bitul lchatchila and was only a bidieved situation.  My new LOR agrees with you.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 03, 2016, 05:01:38 PM
Has anyone ever seen a bug on a strawberry?
The pink ones? Nah. Hard to see.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Mountain Man on March 03, 2016, 05:02:09 PM
take one & hit it on a sheet of paper.
I actually eat strawberries as there is a way to make them bug free
That's my point. If you hit it on paper you'll see pretty quickly if it's infested or not. Then you can go from there with your peeler or soap or vinegar or whatever.
I've seen many clean strawberries.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 03, 2016, 05:02:38 PM
take one & hit it on a sheet of paper.
I actually eat strawberries as there is a way to make them bug free
I'm going to try that one.  It doesn't get the central ones though.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 03, 2016, 05:03:36 PM
This
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 03, 2016, 05:04:20 PM
That's my point. If you hit it on paper you'll see pretty quickly if it's infested or not. Then you can go from there with your peeler or soap or vinegar or whatever.
I've seen many clean strawberries.
Your method is not mentioned by the mainstream hechsherim.
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: Boruch999 on March 03, 2016, 05:04:59 PM
I'll just repeat what others say, not my own words. But R' Wei is considered the giant and mumche in tolaim.

Many consider him to be too machmir (i.e. חושש למעוט שאינה מצוי.)

Absolutely not! There is no bitul likatchila. I don't think any reputable LOR would recommend this.

Many rabbis recommend this.  There are various svoros as to when and why there is no problem of mavtlim isur lichatchila.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Chapshnell on March 03, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
the O-U has a process for cleaning strawberries, I think I once saw it on youtube
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Boruch999 on March 03, 2016, 05:10:35 PM
If they only knew...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2120796/Starbucks-admits-Strawberry-Frappuccino-contains-crushed-bugs.html
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: hachover on March 03, 2016, 05:15:43 PM
This

Is nireh l'eynayim?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 03, 2016, 06:18:31 PM
Is nireh l'eynayim?
What is this, an esrog?!  ;)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: hachover on March 03, 2016, 06:21:58 PM
What is this, an esrog?!  ;)

First time discussing the halachos of bugs?
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 03, 2016, 07:19:25 PM
Many rabbis recommend this.  There are various svoros as to when and why there is no problem of mavtlim isur lichatchila.
I find it hard to believe a Rav would allow a Jew to do this. Perhaps there was something lost in transmission. If a goy owned the strawberries when they were ground then indeed the bugs that may have been there are batul. (That's why you can but smuckers etc) maybe this is what your Rav was referring to.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2016, 09:36:15 PM
What is this, an esrog?!  ;)
R Moshe writes that it applies to bugs as well
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
I find it hard to believe a Rav would allow a Jew to do this. Perhaps there was something lost in transmission. If a goy owned the strawberries when they were ground then indeed the bugs that may have been there are batul. (That's why you can but smuckers etc) maybe this is what your Rav was referring to.
That is not true. Since it is not certain that there are bugs it is not bitul lichatchila that is what a very accepted orthodox rabbi writes in a sefer called Pri Megadim
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 03, 2016, 09:50:15 PM
That is not true. Since it is not certain that there are bugs it is not bitul lichatchila that is what a very accepted orthodox rabbi writes in a sefer called Pri Megadim

I don't recall exactly but I think when dealing with a miut hamatzi it is still a problem.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2016, 09:51:43 PM
I don't recall exactly but I think when dealing with a miut hamatzi it is still a problem.
Incorrect. That is where he wrote it.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 03, 2016, 09:55:26 PM
Incorrect. That is where he wrote it.
Interesting. I would wanna check that out. Do you know where it is specifically?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 03, 2016, 09:57:30 PM
Interesting. I would wanna check that out. Do you know where it is specifically?
It is in siman 84 I think on seif 9 but not sure
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 03:49:29 PM
Checked out seasons .feels like five towns..
Anyway. The Mexican strawberies, Raspberry's and cauliflower is inexcusable.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 06, 2016, 03:52:10 PM
Checked out seasons .feels like five towns..
Anyway. The Mexican strawberies, Raspberry's and cauliflower is inexcusable.

explain
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: CS1 on March 06, 2016, 03:58:16 PM
Checked out seasons .feels like five towns..
Anyway. The Mexican strawberies, Raspberry's and cauliflower is inexcusable.

they are there. They do not have a hechsher. They are grown naturally. People are entitled to buy as many as they like and they can spray, soak, wash, check, and rinse at home.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 04:24:42 PM
they are there. They do not have a hechsher. They are grown naturally. People are entitled to buy as many as they like and they can spray, soak, wash, check, and rinse at home.
And eat bugs.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 06, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
And eat bugs.
::)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Chapshnell on March 06, 2016, 04:27:51 PM
The saying live & let live is non existent in Lakewood? Huh
This is like unreal what I am reading!
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 06, 2016, 04:29:53 PM
The saying live & let live is non existent in Lakewood? Huh
This is like unreal what I am reading!

Checked out seasons .feels like five towns..
Anyway. The Mexican strawberies, Raspberry's and cauliflower is inexcusable.


you think he's being close minded and stereotyping? neh
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 04:49:38 PM
The saying live & let live is non existent in Lakewood? Huh
This is like unreal what I am reading!
Do you think its ok to sell Raspberry's?

Obviously I understand if you couldn't care less.
I could tell you they have a lobster tank and you would shrug..


Just to set the record straight, I was genuinely impressed with the store, the checkout process was a dream, and ime the prices were just fine.
The only issue is the tight parking.

Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Ydad on March 06, 2016, 05:20:49 PM
ime the prices were just fine.
-1
I wonder which store you are comparing with.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Chapshnell on March 06, 2016, 05:28:31 PM
Do you think its ok to sell Raspberry's?

Obviously I understand if you couldn't care less.
I could tell you they have a lobster tank and you would shrug..


Just to set the record straight, I was genuinely impressed with the store, the checkout process was a dream, and ime the prices were just fine.
The only issue is the tight parking.

I am a shomer torah imitzvos individual without bending the rules. I am not sure what you are trying to say.
You seem from this thread & other threads in the past not to have knowledge that there are different opinions on halacha. There seems to be a more condensed group of people like you in Lakewood hence the generalizing of you guys dont live & let live.

Not everyone MUST listen to the way your rav paskens & if you dont believe that you need to get out in the street more & open your eyes. Not everyone has been cut with a cookie cutter.

I am not a self hating jew, on the contrary.. I love every single yid including you.. But not always do I think youre right.

Cheer up, smile.. Life aint that bad :)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 06:04:23 PM
Not trying to be judgmental. Just commented about the Raspberry's. I think that mainstream orthodoxy do not use Raspberry's. Cmiiw!

Anyway, I guess the reason why it felt un-Lakewood-like has to with the high ratio of men wearing jeans to men wearing hats. (Not commenting on the woman c"v). Throw in the raspberries and I felt like I was on vacation somewhere. :)

Nothing wrong with it, I'm cool with it all. (Besides the bugs)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 06, 2016, 06:23:13 PM
I could tell you they have a lobster tank and you would shrug..
Wouldn't that be mayim sebikeilim and not yamim unchalim? :P ;)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 06:39:48 PM
Wouldn't that be mayim sebikeilim and not yamim unchalim?;)
Lol
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on March 06, 2016, 07:13:24 PM
Not trying to be judgmental. Just commented about the Raspberry's. I think that mainstream orthodoxy do not use Raspberry's. Cmiiw!

Anyway, I guess the reason why it felt un-Lakewood-like has to with the high ratio of men wearing jeans to men wearing hats. (Not commenting on the woman c"v). Throw in the raspberries and I felt like I was on vacation somewhere. :)

Nothing wrong with it, I'm cool with it all. (Besides the bugs)
Live and let live. Go hope no one in Lakewood buys them, and they will stop selling them.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: JoeyShmoe on March 06, 2016, 07:14:42 PM
Is there any difference between selling unchecked strawberries and unchecked fresh herbs (e.g. Parsley, dill etc.)? Does NPGS sell those? How about fresh corn?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 06, 2016, 07:24:54 PM
Is there any difference between selling unchecked strawberries and unchecked fresh herbs (e.g. Parsley, dill etc.)? Does NPGS sell those? How about fresh corn?
+1 I think these belong in a different category than raspberries/blackberries.  Raspberries/blackberries are impossible to check while the above ones are very doable, just time consuming at best.  I consider myself machmir regarding bug checking, yet...yet I bought those exact Driscoll's strawberries at a Mexican market because they were HUGE.  At least after all my painstaking paring off the skin and cutting, I will be left with a piece of recognizable strawberry.

Checked out seasons .feels like five towns..
Anyway. The Mexican strawberies, Raspberry's and cauliflower is inexcusable.

Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: A3 on March 06, 2016, 07:30:29 PM
How about Brussels sprouts, I've seen them all over, and never saw anyone that says it's OK.
Raspberry s and blackberry, there are ways it can be OK.

A whole bug is not kosher, a half a bug, no issue.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 07:32:20 PM
Eta

Per the OU checking rasperries is indeed possible
https://oukosher.org/blog/consumer-kosher/checking-vegetables-for-insects/
Title: Re: Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 06, 2016, 07:32:58 PM
I find it hard to believe a Rav would allow a Jew to do this. Perhaps there was something lost in transmission. If a goy owned the strawberries when they were ground then indeed the bugs that may have been there are batul. (That's why you can but smuckers etc) maybe this is what your Rav was referring to.
the rational behind this is based on a ta"z, Re"ma, and others who hold that if the reason you're downgrading the insects from berya to batul b'rov status is for any reason other than bitul itself (smoothies, ices, yogurt blends , gefilte fish) then ain mevatlin issur lechatchila does not apply.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 06, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
Eta

Per the OU checking rasperries is indeed possible
https://oukosher.org/blog/consumer-kosher/checking-vegetables-for-insects/
funny that per ou policy they don't allow it in ou facilities
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 06, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
How about Brussels sprouts, I've seen them all over, and never saw anyone that says it's OK.
Raspberry s and blackberry, there are ways it can be OK.

A while bug is not kosher, a half a bug, no issue.
I would put brussel sprouts in the same category as the berries.  How do you check those berries? 
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 07:36:01 PM
funny that per ou policy they don't allow it in ou facilities
Because it is very far fetched that the method would reveal no bugs.?


The OK method is just hilarious
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: username on March 06, 2016, 07:36:26 PM
funny that per ou policy they don't allow it in ou facilities
There is an OU on Raspberry preserves. Not ground up.
http://www.amazon.com/Smuckers-Red-Raspberry-Preserves-18/dp/B0055AEVUA/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1457310919&sr=8-2&keywords=raspberry+jelly
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 06, 2016, 07:37:16 PM
every one of these hechsherim sells frozen berries. And frozen cauliflower and brocolli, etc.

So how they checking them in the plant? probably way more carefully than you do at home, yah?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 07:38:02 PM
There is an OU on Raspberry preserves. Not ground up.
http://www.amazon.com/Smuckers-Red-Raspberry-Preserves-18/dp/B0055AEVUA/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1457310919&sr=8-2&keywords=raspberry+jelly
They could be cleaned very well by machine first.
The discussion here is about fresh.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 07:38:30 PM
every one of these hechsherim sells frozen berries. And frozen cauliflower and brocolli, etc.

So how they checking them in the plant? probably way more carefully than you do at home, yah?
Power wash
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 06, 2016, 07:38:40 PM
They could be cleaned very well by machine first.
The discussion here is about fresh.

how does that work?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 06, 2016, 07:38:58 PM
Checked out seasons .feels like five towns..
Anyway. The Mexican strawberies, Raspberry's and cauliflower is inexcusable.
even dovid Goldstein says that you can peel strawberries so even the biggest machmirim hold there are ways of partaking in strawberries.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Ydad on March 06, 2016, 07:39:10 PM
funny that per ou policy they don't allow it in ou facilities
After reading their directions it's not really hard to understand why not.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 06, 2016, 07:39:38 PM
Power wash

So how come nobody holds of power wash with fresh vegetables without a hashgacha? lettuce, etc.  And bodek only has chopped up?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 07:39:40 PM
even dovid Goldstein says that you can peel strawberries so even the biggest machmirim hold there are ways of partaking in strawberries.
And even I peel strawberies!
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 06, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
They could be cleaned very well by machine first.
The discussion here is about fresh.
those are cooked so even if they are wrong to give a hechsher, you can still eat them
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 07:40:44 PM
So how come nobody holds of power wash with fresh vegetables without a hashgacha? lettuce, etc.  And bodek only has chopped up?
Honestly I don't really know. I'm just assuming that there are ways to clean berries. Maybe not lettuce?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 06, 2016, 07:43:03 PM
And even I peel strawberies!
BTW , R' Vaye was at the askOU summer seminars 2 years ago, and he told R' Fuchs (OU) that if you wash and brush the strawberries 3 times is soapy water and don't find Big's using his shmate method you can eat them
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: bluesky on March 06, 2016, 08:26:39 PM
FWIW, I just found worms in 2 of the 5 raw almonds I checked. I bought them at a large supermarket with a fast turnaround. This is the first time I soaked them and took off the skin. No sign with the skin on. A tiny hole with the skin off. I usually just check 5, then pop them in my mouth. Yuck.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 06, 2016, 08:38:31 PM
This

That is way too small to see. Note: It isn't the dimple, it's inside the dimple apparently.  That isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 06, 2016, 08:40:35 PM
That is way too small to see. Note: It isn't the dimple, it's inside the dimple apparently.  That isn't a problem.
If it were black you would see it for sure.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 06, 2016, 08:53:56 PM
If it were black you would see it for sure.

If it were 6 feet long, it would eat me.

By which I mean, I don't think halacha recognizes that if it glowed in the dark it would be more visible.  As it is, the thing is not visible without a magnifying glass, so it's muttar.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 07:42:23 AM
If it were 6 feet long, it would eat me.

By which I mean, I don't think halacha recognizes that if it glowed in the dark it would be more visible.  As it is, the thing is not visible without a magnifying glass, so it's muttar.
The poskim today discuss clear definitions of visible. - Don't remember if it is 1 millimeter or something else. Il look around.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 07:43:08 AM
Is this the officially OU sanctioned method?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 09:40:42 AM
The poskim today discuss clear definitions of visible. - Don't remember if it is 1 millimeter or something else. Il look around.
Each of which is bimachlokes shnuya
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 07, 2016, 09:44:50 AM
The poskim today discuss clear definitions of visible. - Don't remember if it is 1 millimeter or something else. Il look around.

How big was that bug?

Also, how does that work? If it's 2 millimeters long but only 1 micron wide, it probably still isn't visible.  At the same time, 1 millimiter by half a millimeter is probably more visible than half by half.  So shouldn't there be some formula to account for the 3D nature of bugs?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 07, 2016, 10:26:21 AM
How big was that bug?

Also, how does that work? If it's 2 millimeters long but only 1 micron wide, it probably still isn't visible.  At the same time, 1 millimiter by half a millimeter is probably more visible than half by half.  So shouldn't there be some formula to account for the 3D nature of bugs?

How about if the bug keeps jumping between realities? You should need to account for all 11 dimensions
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on March 07, 2016, 10:46:08 AM
How about if the bug keeps jumping between realities? You should need to account for all 11 dimensions
According to Schroeder if it goes between dimensions without you being able to know which dimension it is in, you will have a bug in all the realitys at once and therefore it will be trief.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: theduke on March 07, 2016, 12:07:00 PM
Why is everyone making a big deal now? i have been buying strawberries for the last 5 years in Lakewood between Shloimes, Farm Fresh and Kosher Village I've purchased from each one multiple times.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: theduke on March 07, 2016, 12:09:56 PM
Per CRC Guide, http://www.crcweb.org/fruit%20&%20veg%20guide.php

Strawberries – Fresh strawberries should have the tops cut off and then gently rub the strawberry while rinsing it under a strong stream of water.  Alternatively, after removing the tops, soak the strawberries in water mixed with vegetable wash or dish-soap, and then agitate the berries in the water.  No further checking is required

Not that big a deal to do.

https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-to-checking-produce-and-more/ not much different
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 07, 2016, 12:38:19 PM
Per CRC Guide, http://www.crcweb.org/fruit%20&%20veg%20guide.php

Strawberries – Fresh strawberries should have the tops cut off and then gently rub the strawberry while rinsing it under a strong stream of water.  Alternatively, after removing the tops, soak the strawberries in water mixed with vegetable wash or dish-soap, and then agitate the berries in the water.  No further checking is required

Not that big a deal to do.

https://oukosher.org/ou-guide-to-checking-produce-and-more/ not much different

Quote
All frozen strawberries without added flavors or colors are acceptable. All frozen strawberries packed only with sugar are acceptable.

So basically any frozen strawberry is ok, with no hashgacha.  Why can't I just freeze them myself?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 12:39:00 PM
So basically any frozen strawberry is ok, with no hashgacha.  Why can't I just freeze them myself?
Power wash
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 07, 2016, 12:54:43 PM
Power wash

So we're back to power wash, which works well enough for strawberries but not for baby spinach?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 07, 2016, 12:56:40 PM
So we're back to power wash, which works well enough for strawberries but not for baby spinach?
leaves are more delicate
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 01:01:15 PM
So we're back to power wash, which works well enough for strawberries but not for baby spinach?
And are more difficult to reach all areas of large quantities.
leaves are more delicate
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Josef.koney on March 07, 2016, 01:03:34 PM
I'm not a posik I don't know reasons... But I do know my rav is extremely against eating strawberries unless they ate crushed.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 07, 2016, 01:41:54 PM
leaves are more delicate

than strawberries?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 02:48:39 PM
than strawberries?
yes. They are getting frozen anyhow
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 03:46:01 PM
Heres this. Lakewood style

 https://youtu.be/01Ts0dzULq4
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ExGingi on March 07, 2016, 04:46:30 PM
Heres this. Lakewood style

 https://youtu.be/01Ts0dzULq4
WOW! You couldn't make this up if you tried to! The machines are actually made by a company called Lakewood!!!
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Boruch999 on March 07, 2016, 05:19:05 PM
Heres this. Lakewood style

 https://youtu.be/01Ts0dzULq4

Notice they don't bother to wash the raspberries  :)

https://youtu.be/ZmpJYA1ROKQ
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 05:22:47 PM
Notice they don't bother to wash the raspberries  :)

https://youtu.be/ZmpJYA1ROKQ (https://youtu.be/ZmpJYA1ROKQ)

That is this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf3_gLEIOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf3_gLEIOs)

and this one

Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 05:24:21 PM
Notice they don't bother to wash the raspberries  :)

https://youtu.be/ZmpJYA1ROKQ
It's no joke. Raspberries are too delicate to clean.

I'm still waiting for someone to justify how Seasons sells organic raspberries and blackberries.

And btw, the cut up fruit on display didn't have a hechsher on the package either. (I hope they don't use the same knife that cuts the bugs/berries)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Boruch999 on March 07, 2016, 05:34:40 PM
That is this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf3_gLEIOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf3_gLEIOs)

and this one



Not raspberries and not raspberries.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 05:43:28 PM
Not raspberries and not raspberries.
Raspberries arent a type of berry?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 05:44:04 PM
(I hope they don't use the same knife that cuts the bugs/berries)

They are charif?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Boruch999 on March 07, 2016, 05:51:54 PM
Raspberries arent a type of berry?

They are.  So are strawberries.  The point was made upthread that it is more difficult to check raspberries than to check strawberries.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 06:50:12 PM
They are charif?
No but do they wipe off the bug blood?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 06:58:30 PM
No but do they wipe off the bug blood?
If there is any which is unlikely it will be batel many times over.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: hachover on March 07, 2016, 07:23:24 PM
According to Schroeder if it goes between dimensions without you being able to know which dimension it is in, you will have a bug in all the realitys at once and therefore it will be trief.

Who, that piano playing kid from Peanuts? Nah... sounds too quantum for a kid like that.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 07, 2016, 07:45:11 PM
If there is any which is unlikely it will be batel many times over.
Why do you think rasperries are so "juicy"...?.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 07, 2016, 07:48:37 PM
Why do you think rasperries are so "juicy"...?.
Now you are starting to sound like Yudel
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on March 07, 2016, 08:01:38 PM
Who, that piano playing kid from Peanuts? Nah... sounds too quantum for a kid like that.
Schrödinger, my bad... auto type.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 07, 2016, 08:15:24 PM
No but do they wipe off the bug blood?

It's pagum.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 11, 2016, 11:48:56 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160311/52adba9949750cbcfe4b2b15fd8de63d.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160311/c75b45efe115a0f22fe07a8c5deb0eba.jpg)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 12, 2016, 12:56:57 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160311/52adba9949750cbcfe4b2b15fd8de63d.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160311/c75b45efe115a0f22fe07a8c5deb0eba.jpg)

 Albeit time consuming and possibly hard, they are 100% possible to clean. Stop making a big stink about stupidity. Im personally running a campaign to have them stop selling fresh meat as if you eat it without preparing properly you can get very sick.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 12, 2016, 08:31:01 PM
Albeit time consuming and possibly hard, they are 100% possible to clean. Stop making a big stink about stupidity. Im personally running a campaign to have them stop selling fresh meat as if you eat it without preparing properly you can get very sick.
-1.
99% of hechsherim do not recommend cleaning them
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 12, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
-1.
99% of hechsherim do not recommend cleaning them
strawberries? Funny , even R' Moshe Vaye permits it after following his wash method 3 times.
Yudel had strawberries at greenwalds pesach program under his hashgacha. (It's keday to have mashgichim who previously worked for yudel, this way you know when he's not only wrong but also a hypocrite.)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yzj on March 12, 2016, 08:52:20 PM
GG carries the fresh rasberries too. Last time I looked into it the majority of the mainstream orthodox hechsheirim have their methods for the strawberries but tell you to steer clear of the rasberries so I'm pretty uncomfortable seeing them on the shelf in GG and Seasons. Makes me want to double check any other products I'm buying there. Haw to I know they are up to even basic kashrus standards if that isn't the case with the produce?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 12, 2016, 10:07:21 PM
These are the OU strawberry instructions
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 12, 2016, 10:25:15 PM
strawberries? Funny , even R' Moshe Vaye permits it after following his wash method 3 times.
Yudel had strawberries at greenwalds pesach program under his hashgacha. (It's keday to have mashgichim who previously worked for yudel, this way you know when he's not only wrong but also a hypocrite.)
Your not following the convo?
It's now about raspberries..
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 12, 2016, 10:27:09 PM
GG carries the fresh rasberries too. Last time I looked into it the majority of the mainstream orthodox hechsheirim have their methods for the strawberries but tell you to steer clear of the rasberries so I'm pretty uncomfortable seeing them on the shelf in GG and Seasons. Makes me want to double check any other products I'm buying there. Haw to I know they are up to even basic kashrus standards if that isn't the case with the produce?
+1 very disturbing to buy meat, fish etc from a business that clearly at minimum is just oblivious to major kashrus issues.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 03:22:21 AM
-1.
99% of hechsherim do not recommend cleaning them
Don't recommend doesn't mean they don't allow. I'm not saying a simple rinse would do it, but your making it sound like they are selling pig. They are entirely halachikly permitted to sell them, stop making Judaism more restrictive then it is.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: PlatinumGuy on March 13, 2016, 05:05:27 AM
אל תהי צדיק הרבה
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: dealfinder85 on March 13, 2016, 06:33:08 AM
Don't recommend doesn't mean they don't allow. I'm not saying a simple rinse would do it, but your making it sound like they are selling pig. They are entirely halachikly permitted to sell them, stop making Judaism more restrictive then it is.
And this post is just ridiculous...
+1 very disturbing to buy meat, fish etc from a business that clearly at minimum is just oblivious to major kashrus issues.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 07:19:01 AM
And this post is just ridiculous...
It just is huh?

Since you present such a comprehensive argument,  we'll all just take your word for it.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 07:22:54 AM
Don't recommend doesn't mean they don't allow. I'm not saying a simple rinse would do it, but your making it sound like they are selling pig. They are entirely halachikly permitted to sell them, stop making Judaism more restrictive then it is.
I don't recall posting that it is "halachically prohibited to sell".

Bottom line this is your justification.
- Do you think that it is possible that someone shopping in a frum store might not be as aware as you about how difficult theses are to check?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 07:23:14 AM
It just is huh?

Since you present such a comprehensive argument,  we'll all just take your word for it.
I'm not sure that's worse then you stating outright that you have no idea about this subject and then proceeding to bash them.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 07:24:13 AM
I don't recall posting that it is "halachically prohibited to sell".

Bottom line this is your justification.
- Do you think that it is possible that someone shopping in a frum store might not be as aware as you about how difficult theses are to check?
Not the establishments issue.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 07:25:23 AM
אל תהי צדיק הרבה
Oh, don't worry. I have a long way to go
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 07:33:13 AM
Not the establishments issue.
Just for the record, I only "bashed" them in this post about my general discomfort  based on the rasperries. - For the most part I have tried to stick to the issue, which was trying to justify the sale of them.  If you can successfully explain this, there is no issue.

BTW, From a pure business perspective they are making a mistake IMHO. This leads me to believe that they actually don't realize.. I guess in their other locations these products sell well...

Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 07:36:25 AM



Yudel had strawberries at greenwalds pesach program under his hashgacha. (It's keday to have mashgichim who previously worked for yudel, this way you know when he's not only wrong but also a hypocrite.)
Yeah he also served edible orchids which he deems highly infested.
He'll tell you that only he know how to check..

Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: dealfinder85 on March 13, 2016, 07:57:24 AM
It just is huh?

Since you present such a comprehensive argument,  we'll all just take your word for it.
I happen to agree that there should be some notification or something regarding certain produce items
But to make the jump that the agencies certifying these stores know nothing and we shouldn't eat their meat is ridiculous
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 13, 2016, 08:42:23 AM
This is all garbage. You cut off the leaves, and then look at it. If you don't see bugs, then that's it. The fact that you can see bugs with a microscope is not relevant.

To be machmir extra, you can also wash it.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 08:43:58 AM
This is all garbage. You cut off the leaves, and then look at it. If you don't see bugs, then that's it. The fact that you can see bugs with a microscope is not relevant.

To be machmir extra, you can also wash it.
Im not sure if your being sarcastic or if your also ignorant but there are stupid people that pasken from others opinions online.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 08:45:29 AM
This is all garbage. You cut off the leaves, and then look at it. If you don't see bugs, then that's it. The fact that you can see bugs with a microscope is not relevant.

To be machmir extra, you can also wash it.

Your not following the convo?
It's now about raspberries..
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 08:47:45 AM


I happen to agree that there should be some notification or something regarding certain produce items
But to make the jump that the agencies certifying these stores know nothing and we shouldn't eat their meat is ridiculous

But you do agree that the stores are negligent.

Bothers you that we are basically on the same page?  
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 08:53:23 AM
We should really change the thread title to:


"Should Jewish owned businesses, catering to the frum community, sell items that are not recommended for consumption by major kashrus organizations without a disclaimer?"

The follow up question would be:

Is this a sign that "the tone at the top" from management is not very encouraging from a kashrus perspective?

Also should be moved into GD.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on March 13, 2016, 08:59:17 AM
Based on your logic, they shouldn't sell liver that wasn't kashered because some people might not know how.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 09:05:17 AM
Based on your logic, they shouldn't sell liver that wasn't kashered because some people might not know how.
I don't know of any kashrus organization which sells unkashured liver without a full disclaimer.
But at least liver is technically kasherable..
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 09:10:44 AM



But at least liver is technically kasherable..

There you go again. Stop insinuating that strawberries and raspberries aren't.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: A3 on March 13, 2016, 09:17:42 AM
Nothing wrong with eating a half of a bug.

Just puree it
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yzj on March 13, 2016, 09:37:02 AM
Why do posters keep lumping the strawberries together with the rasberries? the strawberries are able to be cleaned according to many of the mainstream kashrus agencies. wheather to sell an item that many people will not end up cleaning with soap etc. is the issue there. The rasberries are an entirely different issue. they are not recommended bay almost all the major agencies and practically not able to be cleaned, hence the issue with stores who cater to kosher consumers selling them.....
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 13, 2016, 10:47:37 AM
Im not sure if your being sarcastic or if your also ignorant but there are stupid people that pasken from others opinions online.

I'm "ignorant."  And I think I'm right, and I do what I'm advocating. 

Strawberries aren't like brussel sprouts that you can convince me there's something hiding behind the crevice where I can't see it.  There's no crevice. 
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 10:50:06 AM
I'm "ignorant."  And I think I'm right, and I do what I'm advocating. 

Strawberries aren't like brussel sprouts that you can convince me there's something hiding behind the crevice where I can't see it.  There's no crevice.
So this is your own conclusion, correct?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 10:50:55 AM
I'm "ignorant."  And I think I'm right, and I do what I'm advocating. 

Strawberries aren't like brussel sprouts that you can convince me there's something hiding behind the crevice where I can't see it.  There's no crevice.
I've heard bugs hide behind the seeds. There are seed right?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 13, 2016, 12:16:07 PM
I've heard bugs hide behind the seeds. There are seed right?
they most definitely do. As soon as I figure out how to compress my video, I'll upload a video I took of a thrip appearing from behind a seed
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2016, 12:50:53 PM
Nothing wrong with eating a half of a bug.

Just puree it
This is simply ignorant. It is just as assur to eat a half a bug as it is to eat an entire bug. The difference between them is only that there is malkos for an entire bug no matter the size while if it is not complete it will need to be a kezayis to be chayav malkos.

What you may be confusing is that an incomplete bug can sometimes be batel. That would not allow one to intentionally cut the bug for it to be batel. Also, it is not certain that pureeing the fruit will also cut the bug. What you may have heard in this regard is that one may puree and then rely on a sfek sfeka that maybe there was no bug and even if there is maybe it is cut up. There are times when one may even do this lichatchila but it is certainly not as simple as you are making it.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2016, 12:53:24 PM
I happen to agree that there should be some notification or something regarding certain produce items
But to make the jump that the agencies certifying these stores know nothing and we shouldn't eat their meat is ridiculous
There is an agency certifying their produce?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 13, 2016, 01:10:38 PM
So this is your own conclusion, correct?

yes.

I've heard bugs hide behind the seeds. There are seed right?

Ok, but then you should need to peel it, and most hashgachos are saying you don't need to.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on March 13, 2016, 01:10:54 PM
they most definitely do. As soon as I figure out how to compress my video, I'll upload a video I took of a thrip appearing from behind a seed

Let's see it.

ETA: ewwwwwwwww


Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on March 13, 2016, 01:16:34 PM
yes.

Ok, but then you should need to peel it, and most hashgachos are saying you don't need to.
If there is access for the bug, who's to say that soap and water doesn't clean these crevices also?
Maybe bugs run out in water or something..
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 13, 2016, 01:18:55 PM
Let's see it.

ETA: ewwwwwwwww

problem is all video sharing sites are blocked by me. So I need an app to compress the video (I think it will still be too large- even my screen shots are too large to upload to ddf)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 13, 2016, 02:34:29 PM
I'm "ignorant."  And I think I'm right, and I do what I'm advocating. 

Strawberries aren't like brussel sprouts that you can convince me there's something hiding behind the crevice where I can't see it.  There's no crevice.
If I could download the video I took with my eyes you would see the thrip scurrying around inside the central crevice of the strawberry I opened.  I now understand why handsdown, every strawberry should be cut down the center (which is recommended).
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Emkay on March 13, 2016, 02:40:30 PM
If I could download the video I took with my eyes you would see the thrip scurrying around inside the central crevice of the strawberry I opened.  I now understand why handsdown, every strawberry should be cut down the center (which is recommended).
Likely got in there after you already cut it open.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 13, 2016, 02:43:33 PM
I rarely see live bugs, but recently I saw a live thrip on a filter cloth after 3 washings . How it survived is beyond me. I also saw a live thrip on fennel under the first layer but that was pre wash.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 13, 2016, 03:26:22 PM
Likely got in there after you already cut it open.
For sure not!  I cut one and check immediately.  No point otherwise. It would have had to crawl over the cut red flesh first.  Would have seen it.  BTW, this was after soaking them in soap first (before peeling days).
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ExGingi on March 13, 2016, 04:52:30 PM
I rarely see live bugs, but recently I saw a live thrip on a filter cloth after 3 washings .
3 washings of strawberries, or are you referring to something else?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: CS1 on March 13, 2016, 04:55:51 PM
I rarely see live bugs, but recently I saw a live thrip on a filter cloth after 3 washings . How it survived is beyond me. I also saw a live thrip on fennel under the first layer but that was pre wash.

also helpful to wash under strong running water. After spraying/soaking, it will wash anything living down the drain.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 13, 2016, 05:02:47 PM
also helpful to wash under strong running water. After spraying/soaking, it will wash anything living down the drain.
my method : fill large mixing bowl with water and soap to make water slick. Brush under soapy water with toothbrush. Fill sink about 1/2 way  with clean water place strawberries in sink (agitate vigorously for good measure ) then wash under strong stream of water and repeat process a 2ND time. If I had a way of checking the sink water in my house I probably would be satisfied if now insects were found there but I don't have NYC commercial plumbing.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yzj on March 13, 2016, 06:20:20 PM
I still remmber the shock on everyones faces when a meshgiach for one of the well known agencies brought in to the old Beis Eliyahu building in BMG a container of Grade A fresh strawberries from shoprite that had just been thoroughly washed and after a short while started pointing out one aphid after another crawling in and out of the seed pockets. there were multiple live aphids that were only apparent once you knew where to look. I had never noticed them before and it made quite an impression on me and the others who witnessed it. I'm sure there are varying levels of infestation depending on season, location etc. but wow, was that an eye opener....
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: A3 on March 13, 2016, 07:28:59 PM
I still remmber the shock on everyones faces when a meshgiach for one of the well known agencies brought in to the old Beis Eliyahu building in BMG a container of Grade A fresh strawberries from shoprite that had just been thoroughly washed and after a short while started pointing out one aphid after another crawling in and out of the seed pockets. there were multiple live aphids that were only apparent once you knew where to look. I had never noticed them before and it made quite an impression on me and the others who witnessed it. I'm sure there are varying levels of infestation depending on season, location etc. but wow, was that an eye opener....
Did you see him wash it? The term thoroughly changed throughout the years.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yzj on March 13, 2016, 07:32:39 PM
No we did not see him wash it personally.....
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2016, 11:17:05 PM
If I could download the video I took with my eyes you would see the thrip scurrying around inside the central crevice of the strawberry I opened.  I now understand why handsdown, every strawberry should be cut down the center (which is recommended).
That does not mean that it is required to cut them open. Just because they can on occasion be found there does not make it a miut hamatzuy. BTW, recommended by whom?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 13, 2016, 11:37:07 PM
That does not mean that it is required to cut them open. Just because they can on occasion be found there does not make it a miut hamatzuy. BTW, recommended by whom?
That is how we have been doing it for years.  I follow Rav Vaya.  There are other poiskim quoted or referred to upthread.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 13, 2016, 11:38:37 PM
That is how we have been doing it for years.  I follow Rav Vaya.  There are other poiskim quoted or referred to upthread.
pretty sure he doesn't require opening them up unless you cut through the cavity on top. But I'll double check
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on March 13, 2016, 11:41:21 PM
That is how we have been doing it for years.  I follow Rav Vaya.  There are other poiskim quoted or referred to upthread.
Where? I do not recall anyone quoted as saying that they need to be opened.

ETA:
The post below brings a letter from R Vaye in which there is no mention of cutting the strawberry open (It is attached to the post when you click to it)
Seems to be some back and forth on this. 2007 the consensus was that strawberies are impossible to clean.
It seems like things have improved.

http://kosherpoint.com/what-can-be-wrong-with-that/strawberries/ (http://kosherpoint.com/what-can-be-wrong-with-that/strawberries/)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: etech0 on March 13, 2016, 11:59:35 PM
pretty sure he doesn't require opening them up unless you cut through the cavity on top.
+1
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: srap on March 14, 2016, 01:13:39 AM
Where? I do not recall anyone quoted as saying that they need to be opened.

ETA:
The post below brings a letter from R Vaye in which there is no mention of cutting the strawberry open (It is attached to the post when you click to it)
Isn't that what this whole thread is about? The different methods of how strawberries can and can not be checked?  I would be happy to change my methods if he no longer recommends it.  Rav Vaye changed his guidelines once the strawberry infestations started around 2007-2010.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on March 14, 2016, 07:00:24 AM
Rav Vaye changed his guidelines once the strawberry infestations started around 2007-2010.
source? When he was at the OU in the summer of 2014 he didn't require that
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: chevron on March 31, 2016, 12:42:58 AM
Tolaim are a big issue of debate for me. I dont really believe in the whole shpiel, there are 3 lo sasseh's on tolaiim but im not convinced on the din and where one goes beyond the letter of the law.

I dont eat the bugs I find in life, as tempted as I am.

According to snaple caps, one swallows 12 flies on avg in a life time while sleeping.. I assume they made it up.. but now we need a mouth cover for sleeping ?

I do what I feel follows my belief and practice... I cut off where instructed, soak etc but I tend to agree with others, these chumros dont often mesh with reality...

God forbid hillel hazaken's korech steak sandwich had lettuce!! i'd assume he had mayo and a tomato too? dammit cartman, i'm adding a klp pickle to my korech this year!
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 31, 2016, 12:54:04 AM
Tolaim are a big issue of debate for me. I dont really believe in the whole shpiel, there are 3 lo sasseh's on tolaiim but im not convinced on the din and where one goes beyond the letter of the law.

I dont eat the bugs I find in life, as tempted as I am.

According to snaple caps, one swallows 12 flies on avg in a life time while sleeping.. I assume they made it up.. but now we need a mouth cover for sleeping ?

I do what I feel follows my belief and practice... I cut off where instructed, soak etc but I tend to agree with others, these chumros dont often mesh with reality...

God forbid hillel hazaken's korech steak sandwich had lettuce!! i'd assume he had mayo and a tomato too? dammit cartman, i'm adding a klp pickle to my korech this year!
You really went out on a spree today! This post really is in line with your views here (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=61768.0).
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: chevron on March 31, 2016, 01:07:31 AM
You really went out on a spree today! This post really is in line with your views here (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=61768.0).

How do you know my views ? I dont take the moral high ground as easy as it is for many... who will drag their Rav through the mud and disgrace a mikdash meat by talking in shull ... and during kadish and that is their problem but I mean at least I dont pretend to be holy.

I ask a question of Kashrut to someone competent in line with my hashkafa or get a 2nd opinion on logistics and follow it.

I ate trayf as a teenager, I dont need justification. I will soak veggies in water with salt, cut off tips where instructed etc..

But I really see tolaim as a hashkafic thing along with those who only eat a certain shechita or dont trim their beard.. Why accept crazy chumros ?

Different folks, different strokes... yet some are pressured in to buying over priced frozen garbage thats a shod af yidisher gelt
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on March 31, 2016, 01:14:29 AM
How do you know my views ? I dont take the moral high ground as easy as it is for many... who will drag their Rav through the mud and disgrace a mikdash meat by talking in shull ... and during kadish and that is their problem but I mean at least I dont pretend to be holy.

I ask a question of Kashrut to someone competent in line with my hashkafa or get a 2nd opinion on logistics and follow it.

I ate trayf as a teenager, I dont need justification. I will soak veggies in water with salt, cut off tips where instructed etc..

But I really see tolaim as a hashkafic thing along with those who only eat a certain shechita or dont trim their beard.. Why accept crazy chumros ?

Different folks, different strokes... yet some are pressured in to buying over priced frozen garbage thats a shod af yidisher gelt
I don't see how not talking in shul justifies eating tolaim or reading materials that have a hint of kefira to them.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: chevron on March 31, 2016, 01:19:45 AM
I don't see how not talking in shul justifies eating tolaim or reading materials that have a hint of kefira to them.

The first is stupid, the 2nd is subjective the 3rd is debatable.

Bet you cant find me a guy that talks in shull as a matter of principle... well, maybe.. but he'd be one deprived soul... 
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ExGingi on March 31, 2016, 01:55:18 PM
God forbid hillel hazaken's korech steak sandwich had lettuce!! i'd assume he had mayo and a tomato too? dammit cartman, i'm adding a klp pickle to my korech this year!

Before you add a klp pickle to your Korech - which is highly problematic - we don't even put salt on Matzoh eaten during the Seder (except during שולחן עורך), you might emulate Hillel's כורך (aka the Original Shawarma Laffa) by using soft (Yemeni style) Matzohs. Up until about 200-250 years ago all Matzohs were more similar to Pita than to the crackers we eat today. Since you seem interested in the development of Rabbinic Judaism, the evolution of Matzohs to what we eat today (along with avoiding געבראקס - which is directly related to the cracker style Matzohs) is an integral part of that, though it is from a later date than what you were inquiring about in a different thread.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: chevron on March 31, 2016, 08:01:35 PM
I dont believe in kitniyot but I dont really care to go cook it or go out of my way to eat it.. I did go to the mesorah dinner! Although the food was lame and I was sick for a week lol

Why are mesorah's like eating elk or eating stuff our ancestress ate not important but chumros from europe make people crazy.

I have had the yeminite pitot in israel but dont have access in miami
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 05, 2016, 07:07:53 PM
So Seasons no longer sells fresh raspberries, and their cauliflower has an "unchecked" sticker on it (should better say "infested"?).

But in the freezer they have these, that have a " K" for kosher. - are they really kosher? Says who?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160505/24239bcecba4ff5c0428843c543e82fd.jpg)

The Dole strawberry's actually have an OU.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160505/661d1d820084b0e71246a984756f82ae.jpg)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on May 05, 2016, 07:15:04 PM
So Seasons no longer sells fresh raspberries, and their cauliflower has an "unchecked" sticker on it (should better say "infested"?).

But in the freezer they have these, that have a " K" for kosher. - are they really kosher? Says who?


The Dole strawberry's actually have an OU.

You are opening back up a can of worms?! (Pun intended...)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Zevi16 on May 05, 2016, 07:18:42 PM
I wonder if these stores like GG and seasons take all this flak into consideration when opening up.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on May 05, 2016, 07:22:14 PM
I wonder if these stores like GG and seasons take all this flak into consideration when opening up.
It's like Donald Trump. More publicity, even negative = better/more business...
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: A3 on May 05, 2016, 08:05:35 PM
So Seasons no longer sells fresh raspberries, and their cauliflower has an "unchecked" sticker on it (should better say "infested"?).

But in the freezer they have these, that have a " K" for kosher. - are they really kosher? Says who?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160505/24239bcecba4ff5c0428843c543e82fd.jpg)

The Dole strawberry's actually have an OU.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160505/661d1d820084b0e71246a984756f82ae.jpg)
Check out @cRcKosher's Tweet: ?s=09
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on May 05, 2016, 08:30:22 PM
Check out @cRcKosher's Tweet: 390486584706859008[/tweet]?s=09]?s=09[/url]
the op likes to scream and only find out the facts afterwards. cf: good dentist thread (http://[tweet)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 05, 2016, 08:44:28 PM
the op likes to scream and only find out the facts afterwards. cf: good dentist thread
I asked a legitamate question about the kosher status of frozen raspberries. Which A3 was gracious enough to answer.

As a dentist, you still havent defended the practice of "selling" a mandatory professional cleaning to your clients every six months.
Please respond in the thread.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on May 05, 2016, 09:00:05 PM
I asked a legitamate question about the kosher status of frozen raspberries. Which A3 was gracious enough to answer.

As a dentist, you still havent defended the practice of "selling" a mandatory professional cleaning to your clients every six months.
Please respond in the thread.

I don't have to "sell" or prove anything.

My issue isn't with you asking questions, it's with your assumption that "they" must be wrong.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 20, 2016, 07:57:17 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160620/0a05fb68234b4a5a293d78a8bdc02c37.jpg)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: mgarfin on June 20, 2016, 09:12:56 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160620/0a05fb68234b4a5a293d78a8bdc02c37.jpg)

Is this only the one's in Lakewood?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 20, 2016, 09:48:21 AM
Is this only the one's in Lakewood?
It's the brands specified.

They specifically also mentioned that they have not looked at any other brands, so noone should infer that they are ok.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on June 20, 2016, 03:06:27 PM
It's the brands specified.

They specifically also mentioned that they have not looked at any other brands, so noone should infer that they are ok.
LOL
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 02:25:38 PM
Seasons in Lakewood is still selling blackberries.

Just spoke to someone who was nichshal...

Nebach, kids who consume these will never be the same.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on July 06, 2016, 02:28:58 PM
Seasons in Lakewood is still selling blackberries.

Just spoke to someone who was nichshal...

Nebach, kids who consume these will never be the same.
How was he nichshal if not through his own carelessness?
it didnt even have any hebrew letters on it..
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on July 06, 2016, 02:30:10 PM
How was he nichshal if not through his own carelessness?
it didnt even have any hebrew letters on it..
???

Unfortunately there are many naive people out there who assume that a kosher supermarket actually is what they imply to be...
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ChAiM'l on July 06, 2016, 03:10:50 PM
???

Unfortunately there are many naive people out there who assume that a kosher supermarket actually is what they imply to be...
Their naivete is their own problem, not the store's. They shouldn't be doing the shopping.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on July 06, 2016, 03:11:23 PM
Their naivete is their own problem, not the store's. They shouldn't be doing the shopping.
The stores shouldn't consider themselves kosher.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on July 06, 2016, 03:12:45 PM
???

Unfortunately there are many naive people out there who assume that a kosher supermarket actually is what they imply to be...
doe they also buy lettuce and use without cleaning it?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yakov116 on July 06, 2016, 03:14:00 PM
The stores shouldn't consider themselves kosher.
I disagree. For example if there is an item that has a so so hechsher the store is not required to post that. A customer is required to look at things.
If you dont know how to follow instructions (have a rabbi to ask thing to) then its your own problem.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on July 06, 2016, 03:15:36 PM
I disagree. For example if there is an item that has a so so hechsher the store is not required to post that. A customer is required to look at things.
If you dont know how to follow instructions (have a rabbi to ask thing to) then its your own problem.
Correct if it's a so so product. Not if it's agreed by all the it's impossible to clean that fruit.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on July 06, 2016, 03:18:42 PM
Correct if it's a so so product. Not if it's agreed by all the it's impossible to clean that fruit.

That's a bold statement and factually false.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on July 06, 2016, 03:22:24 PM
That's a bold statement and factually false.
Was debated upthread.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on July 06, 2016, 03:28:30 PM
Was debated upthread.

i'm not getting into the debate about what you hold. I'm just pointing out that you made a generalization that is wrong
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ChAiM'l on July 06, 2016, 04:32:36 PM
Correct if it's a so so product. Not if it's agreed by all the it's impossible to clean that fruit.

There are those who permit it. How about banning all stores that sell bagels with cream cheese and lox, because there are many who don't eat fish with cheese...
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yakov116 on July 06, 2016, 04:49:50 PM
There are those who permit it. How about banning all stores that sell bagels with cream cheese and lox, because there are many who don't eat fish with cheese...
Great idea start a new thread (or maybe put it in the "where have you been banned from thread)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 07:59:29 PM
There are those who permit it. How about banning all stores that sell bagels with cream cheese and lox, because there are many who don't eat fish with cheese...
Nobody just "permits" it.

The OU recommends a certain bedika. If this bedika is positive for bugs there is no cleaning process available. Supposedly this bedika will show infestation 99% of the time.

For this reason the OU doesn't allow rasperries and blackberries in facilities with their hechsher.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 08:04:21 PM
Purchased in a local grocery
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160707/e2427bf7b31da0d58c834de776295cb2.jpg)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 08:06:15 PM
Nobody just "permits" it.

The OU recommends a certain bedika. If this bedika is positive for bugs there is no cleaning process available. Supposedly this bedika will show infestation 99% of the time.

For this reason the OU doesn't allow rasperries and blackberries in facilities with their hechsher.
Eta. Just did the OU bedika with Seasons blackberries.  - a couple of crawlers
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: henche on July 06, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
Purchased in a local grocery
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160707/e2427bf7b31da0d58c834de776295cb2.jpg)

Was that before or after cooking? Do they float free when you cook it?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Yikes2179 on July 06, 2016, 10:21:53 PM
Nobody just "permits" it.

The OU recommends a certain bedika. If this bedika is positive for bugs there is no cleaning process available. Supposedly this bedika will show infestation 99% of the time.

For this reason the OU doesn't allow rasperries and blackberries in facilities with their hechsher.
The OU permits it for jam
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on July 06, 2016, 10:31:31 PM
The OU permits it for jam
So you want to say that every naive person walking into Seasons buying blackberries is getting it for jam?!
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Yikes2179 on July 06, 2016, 10:33:37 PM
So you want to say that every naive person walking into Seasons buying blackberries is getting it for jam?!
No but i don't think there is anything wrong with a store selling such things
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: grodnoking on July 06, 2016, 10:45:10 PM
Most kosher supermarkets sell many things that some people eat and some people don't. The only supermarket I dont check for hechsherim or the such in is NPGS, where I know they would lable anything slightly questionable with signs or take it off the shelf.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: aygart on July 06, 2016, 11:19:11 PM
Most kosher supermarkets sell many things that some people eat and some people don't. The only supermarket I dont check for hechsherim or the such in is NPGS, where I know they would lable anything slightly questionable with signs or take it off the shelf.
Check your premises
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 11:57:52 PM
The OU permits it for jam
First of all please post your source. (Commercial may be a different process)
Second of all, that's a lame excuse.

We all know the sad truth. - in the other seasons locations the customers have no problem purchasing and rinsing rasperries for consumption. This is why it is part of their inventory chain, and ends up in Lakewood.

They wouldn't be selling them if noone bought them. - And there ain't that many old ladies makin jam.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 06, 2016, 11:59:29 PM
Most kosher supermarkets sell many things that some people eat and some people don't. The only supermarket I dont check for hechsherim or the such in is NPGS, where I know they would lable anything slightly questionable with signs or take it off the shelf.
This is the point of the thread. Which Rabbi permits the consumption of rasperries? Who buys these things??
This is not a minhag or Chumrah issue.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: mgarfin on July 07, 2016, 08:16:28 AM
The OU permits it for jam

Even the strictest  heshsher allows it for jam as it's blended so it's botal.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 07, 2016, 08:51:28 AM
Even the strictest  heshsher allows it for jam as it's blended so it's botal.
-1 jam is not blended ime. Big chunks in there.
Reason is due to commercial washing system imho
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: mgarfin on July 07, 2016, 08:55:11 AM
-1 jam is not blended ime. Big chunks in there.
Reason is due to commercial washing system imho

The eda hachrdus does not allowed any sort of washing and still has strawberries in there yogurt.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 07, 2016, 09:04:19 AM
The eda hachrdus does not allowed any sort of washing and still has strawberries in there yogurt.
-1
They allow commercial washing systems
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: mgarfin on July 07, 2016, 09:11:13 AM
-1
They allow commercial washing systems

I recall reading in there pasach book that they don't.

Why don't they sell frozen washed strawberries? Why only greenhouse.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yuneeq on July 07, 2016, 09:25:10 AM
Nobody just "permits" it.

The OU recommends a certain bedika. If this bedika is positive for bugs there is no cleaning process available. Supposedly this bedika will show infestation 99% of the time.

For this reason the OU doesn't allow rasperries and blackberries in facilities with their hechsher.
The OU permits it for jam
First of all please post your source. (Commercial may be a different process)

I guess you just say whatever keeps the argument flowing
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 07, 2016, 09:29:40 AM
I guess you just say whatever keeps the argument flowing
Which argument?

Here is the OU
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160707/fa4372ace26e0852560d064f91252c80.jpg)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yuneeq on July 07, 2016, 09:32:32 AM
Which argument?

First you say that OU 100% doesn't allow raspberries in any facilities.
Then someone says OU certifies jam.
They you say that commercial process may be different (and therefore OU can certify jam).

So which one is it?
Is OU against certifying raspberries 100% or only when its convenient to say that in an argument?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 07, 2016, 09:33:16 AM
First you say that OU 100% doesn't allow raspberries in any facilities.
Then someone says OU certifies jam.
They you say that commercial process may be different (and therefore OU can certify jam).

So which one is it?
Is OU against certifying raspberries 100% or only when its convenient to say that in an argument?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160707/64c1ac3dd393cea6b08becf6e92477cc.jpg)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yuneeq on July 07, 2016, 09:35:12 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160707/64c1ac3dd393cea6b08becf6e92477cc.jpg)

context?
 
There must be at least 3 different fruits/veggies mentioned on the (cut off) left side.
Besides I see nothing here about OU banning raspberries 100% in their facilities.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 07, 2016, 11:19:52 AM
context?
 
There must be at least 3 different fruits/veggies mentioned on the (cut off) left side.
Besides I see nothing here about OU banning raspberries 100% in their facilities.
K heres the link.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ou.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/files/BugBookFVchart11.pdf%3Ffile%3DBugBookFVchart11.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj3i5uC0-HNAhXJXh4KHcedBQ0QFgg1MAg&usg=AFQjCNFMcrt7PX1GYhEGjsOD4IoP7OdzDQ&sig2=Em3tmAdWBPWw3V8NKpE-BA


I said that OU does not allow rasperries in their facilities (restaurants caterer etc) due to the difficulty checking.

I also said that the commercial washing process is different.

Nothing to argue about
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: CS1 on July 07, 2016, 11:38:22 AM
interesting PDF of OU allowed and non-allowed produce in OU restaurants.
According to that document, blackberries, raspberries, and artichokes are not allowed in OU restaurants.

All the others on the list are allowed. (Interesting that they mention that pitted dates do not need to be checked. I have found worms in pitted dates.)
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: ushdadude on July 07, 2016, 11:47:20 AM
K heres the link.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ou.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/files/BugBookFVchart11.pdf%3Ffile%3DBugBookFVchart11.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj3i5uC0-HNAhXJXh4KHcedBQ0QFgg1MAg&usg=AFQjCNFMcrt7PX1GYhEGjsOD4IoP7OdzDQ&sig2=Em3tmAdWBPWw3V8NKpE-BA (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ou.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/files/BugBookFVchart11.pdf%3Ffile%3DBugBookFVchart11.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj3i5uC0-HNAhXJXh4KHcedBQ0QFgg1MAg&usg=AFQjCNFMcrt7PX1GYhEGjsOD4IoP7OdzDQ&sig2=Em3tmAdWBPWw3V8NKpE-BA)


I said that OU does not allow rasperries in their facilities (restaurants caterer etc) due to the difficulty checking.

I also said that the commercial washing process is different.

Nothing to argue about

you also said they are impossible to check
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on July 07, 2016, 12:02:33 PM
interesting PDF of OU allowed and non-allowed produce in OU restaurants.
According to that document, blackberries, raspberries, and artichokes are not allowed in OU restaurants.

All the others on the list are allowed. (Interesting that they mention that pitted dates do not need to be checked. I have found worms in pitted dates.)
+1
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yuneeq on July 07, 2016, 12:08:15 PM
K heres the link.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ou.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/files/BugBookFVchart11.pdf%3Ffile%3DBugBookFVchart11.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj3i5uC0-HNAhXJXh4KHcedBQ0QFgg1MAg&usg=AFQjCNFMcrt7PX1GYhEGjsOD4IoP7OdzDQ&sig2=Em3tmAdWBPWw3V8NKpE-BA


I said that OU does not allow rasperries in their facilities (restaurants caterer etc) due to the difficulty checking.

I also said that the commercial washing process is different.

Nothing to argue about

fa·cil·i·ty
fəˈsilədē/
noun
plural noun: facilities
1.
space or equipment necessary for doing something.

That includes facilities that are providing commercial washing.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 07, 2016, 12:14:23 PM
you also said they are impossible to check

fa·cil·i·ty
fəˈsilədē/
noun
plural noun: facilities
1.
space or equipment necessary for doing something.

That includes facilities that are providing commercial washing.
-1

Talk about looking to argue
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: CS1 on July 07, 2016, 12:19:31 PM
+1

so that means that they are lenient when it comes to dates, and that people have actually found worms, and the OU said that the pitted dates don't need to be checked?
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: yuneeq on July 07, 2016, 12:41:38 PM
-1

Talk about looking to argue

Nah I understand what you mean now, but what you wrote before is literally contradictory.
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: mgarfin on July 07, 2016, 01:00:40 PM
The difference between jam and whole outline
http://www.hamachon.co.il/web/valueBig.asp?codeClient=1738&CodeSubWeb=0&id=682&kod=100200
Title: Re: Ban Strawberries
Post by: moko on July 07, 2016, 01:10:00 PM
I recall reading in there pasach book that they don't.

Why don't they sell frozen washed strawberries? Why only greenhouse.
the ou does. Kirkland frozen strawberries are certified by the ou. 6 lb bag for $8