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DansDeals Forum => Up In The Air => Topic started by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 11:01:49 AM

Title: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 11:01:49 AM
Currently booked on:
57.5K miles.
UA56 CDG-EWR 9:25am-1:00pm 772 J
2:03 connection in EWR
UA1801 EWR-CLE 3:03pm-4:44pm 739 F
Travel time 12:19

How insane is it to switch to:
110K miles.
LH1027 CDG-FRA 8:55am-10:10am 320 J
3:20 connection in FRA/FCT
LH402 FRA-EWR 1:30pm-5:15pm 748 F
4:05 connection in EWR+terminal change to RJ concourse.
UA3823 EWR-CLE 9:20pm-11:05pm RJ145 Y
Travel time 19:10
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 11:08:16 AM
Currently booked on:
57.5K miles.
UA56 CDG-EWR 9:25am-1:00pm 772 J
2:03 connection in EWR
UA1801 EWR-CLE 3:03pm-4:44pm 739 F

How insane is it to switch to:
110K miles.
LH1027 CDG-FRA 8:55am-10:10am 320 J
3:20 connection in FRA
LH402 FRA-EWR 1:30pm-5:15pm 748 F
4:05 connection in EWR+terminal change to RJ concourse.
UA3823 EWR-CLE 9:20pm-11:05pm RJ145 Y

Ask DW if 6.5 hours home + 52.5k miles is worth it for LH F.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
Ignoring DW factors, what would you guys do in this scenario?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Chapshnell on March 14, 2016, 11:21:40 AM
I wouldn't personally.. Unless you haven't been to the FCT before.. Than its a different ballgame.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 11:22:24 AM
I have been, though it's been 6 years and I didn't get kosher food there back then.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 11:24:33 AM
I have been, though it's been 6 years and I didn't get kosher food there back then.

Don't go there for the kosher food. If that is the factor, might as well skip it.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AsherO on March 14, 2016, 11:30:05 AM
Ask DW if 6.5 hours home + 52.5k miles is worth it for LH F.

I think DW asks Dan for award advice, not the other way around :P
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 14, 2016, 11:30:52 AM
Don't go there for the kosher food. If that is the factor, might as well skip it.
+1

If you've been there before, I say that the more direct routing trumps the fun of the FCT, particularly given the mileage premium. You're scotch collection at home is plenty fine to rival the FCT, too + you can actually enjoy it with wine and dinner in your own home with family which, to me, would certainly override the prospect of FCT kosher fare. Even if you didn't keep kosher, I question whether it is worth it.

Also consider, that the later your departure from EWR, the more likely you are to be delayed.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 11:32:26 AM

I think DW asks Dan for award advice, not the other way around :P

And how about family advice??? My guess is they're joint decisions
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: SearchGuy on March 14, 2016, 11:33:05 AM
Insane indeed, in this scenario Chuck is the guy to ask... ;)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 11:33:13 AM
+1

If you've been there before, I say that the more direct routing trumps the fun of the FCT, particularly given the mileage premium. You're scotch collection at home is plenty fine to rival the FCT, too + you can actually enjoy it with wine and dinner in your own home with family which, to me, would certainly override the prospect of FCT kosher fare. Even if you didn't keep kosher, I question whether it is worth it.

Also consider, that the later your departure from EWR, the more likely you are to be delayed.

If you are there for lunch - which he would make - they always have a great line up of food with some exceptional cooking taking place there. That would certainly feed into my decision (no pun intended).
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: CS91 on March 14, 2016, 11:36:27 AM
If you've been there before, I say that the more direct routing trumps the fun of the FCT, particularly given the mileage premium.
I get the feeling that 52.5k miles is negligible for Dan  ;D
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ilherman on March 14, 2016, 11:37:46 AM
Leave it as is. If you already did LH F + FCT then there is no point in doing it again.

Now, would the question be about EK F, SQ R etc then I would think about it twice but the LH experience is not that special that you need to do it twice. Especially on a day flight where you wont sleep much so the more comfy bed does not matter.

Did you check for EK F availability via MXP?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: CS91 on March 14, 2016, 11:39:20 AM
Especially on a day flight where you wont sleep much so the more comfy bed does not matter.
Based on this morning's DDMS post ("Iím still traveling for another few days and havenít slept in more than that thanks to polar bear and Aurora Borealis hunting..."), it sounds like Dan would probably even fall asleep in a Spirit Air seat.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: sky121 on March 14, 2016, 11:44:27 AM
I'd do it. I assume you can spare the miles. And it will give you more to add to your next write up which only helps your site.
And you'll enjoy it. :)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: SearchGuy on March 14, 2016, 11:45:47 AM
I'd do it. I assume you can spare the miles. And it will give you more to add to your next write up which only helps your site.
And you'll enjoy it. :)
Sounds like he's looking what to add...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Something Fishy on March 14, 2016, 12:17:00 PM
Just go home, ya.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 14, 2016, 12:22:34 PM
Add a poll...to DDMS!
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: DMYD on March 14, 2016, 12:31:31 PM
Don't change! For the food, it's the same as they would serve on the plane,  your not getting restaurant quality.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Chapshnell on March 14, 2016, 12:33:50 PM
I have been, though it's been 6 years and I didn't get kosher food there back then.

nah, dont change it
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: sky121 on March 14, 2016, 01:09:28 PM
How tired are you? :)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: hvaces42 on March 14, 2016, 01:11:50 PM
I just had that same question in reverse. Was booked JFK-WAW-BUD on LO J for 52.5k was looking at JFK-FRA-BUD 5+ hours in WAW vs 3+ in FCT. Chose to change but to EWR-ZRH-BUD in LX J for same mileage and an hour shorter. Never been to the FCT but cant justify ~50k UA for a cigar and a scotch (or bourbon) and some so so kosher food. Think what you can buy for ~$600. Chaval al hazman. Does LX have an option for you?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Chapshnell on March 14, 2016, 01:36:30 PM
I just had that same question in reverse. Was booked JFK-WAW-BUD on LO J for 52.5k was looking at JFK-FRA-BUD 5+ hours in WAW vs 3+ in FCT. Chose to change but to EWR-ZRH-BUD in LX J for same mileage and an hour shorter. Never been to the FCT but cant justify ~50k UA for a cigar and a scotch (or bourbon) and some so so kosher food. Think what you can buy for ~$600. Chaval al hazman. Does LX have an option for you?

you changed for the LX seat over LO? Thats criminal from what I understand.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: hvaces42 on March 14, 2016, 01:38:53 PM
you changed for the LX seat over LO? Thats criminal from what I understand.
Wasnt too hot about spending 6 hours in Warsaw. Vs 6 hoirs in ZRH
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: username on March 14, 2016, 01:39:07 PM
Just go home, ya.
POIDH!
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 14, 2016, 01:40:52 PM
seems ridiculous to change.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 02:13:16 PM
So background of this is that I was perfectly content to keep as is and AJK insists that the only crazy decision here would be to fly UA when LH is an option and when I'm not flying with DW and kids to inconvenience.

First I said he's nuts and wrote it off, but it just kept nagging at me despite its ridiculousness...

Can't do EK/SQ as this is after the 3rd stopover already=No refunds :)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 02:15:23 PM
He is just hoping for a new ducky for his collection..  :D
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 14, 2016, 02:18:33 PM
So background of this is that I was perfectly content to keep as is and AJK insists that the only crazy decision here would be to fly UA when LH is an option and when I'm not flying with DW and kids to inconvenience.

First I said he's nuts and wrote it off, but it just kept nagging at me despite its ridiculousness...

Can't do EK/SQ as this is after the 3rd stopover already=No refunds :)
So tacking on another 1:30 flight in Y plus  mindless stopover to fly LH over UA? (which i happen to despise also)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Chapshnell on March 14, 2016, 02:23:56 PM
Wasnt too hot about spending 6 hours in Warsaw. Vs 6 hoirs in ZRH

interesting..
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ilherman on March 14, 2016, 02:28:30 PM
So background of this is that I was perfectly content to keep as is and AJK insists that the only crazy decision here would be to fly UA when LH is an option and when I'm not flying with DW and kids to inconvenience.

First I said he's nuts and wrote it off, but it just kept nagging at me despite its ridiculousness...

Can't do EK/SQ as this is after the 3rd stopover already=No refunds :)
HUCA  ;)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 14, 2016, 02:32:22 PM
So background of this is that I was perfectly content to keep as is and AJK insists...
No surprise where that trip down the rabbit hole came from!
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 02:36:57 PM
EK isn't available. SQ leaves too early from what I recall.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 02:40:06 PM
EK isn't available. SQ leaves too early from what I recall.

Always leaves 820am from FRA to JFK.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 14, 2016, 02:50:51 PM
Always leaves 820am from FRA to JFK.
840am also.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ad120 on March 14, 2016, 03:04:02 PM
IMO not worth it in this case.
There will be other instances.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 03:05:11 PM
840am also.

Really? Checking Flightaware and SQ they seem to be always scheduled for 820.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 14, 2016, 03:25:00 PM


Really?

Positive.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: mb1 on March 14, 2016, 04:21:32 PM
 Just change it already.
You know that's what you want, so just do it and enjoy Paris and your trip home.   :P
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 05:16:14 PM
This ^

You think 50K is a premium? When again will you have the opportunity to fly solo? Right now, it's costing you 50K, which, last I checked, is less than 200K (50K x4).

To me, the fact that you haven't already switched calls into your question your sustained ability to run this site.

1) Flying solo (means don't have to bother wife and kids, nor having to pay for them);
2) Flying new LH F (which you have not done... comparing old to new is like comparing UA J to LH F)
3) FCT + Porsche
4) The "Hobby" is becoming less and less attractive. In a year or two, your 50K will be worth half that.

So you don't sleep another hour in a bed. In a year, let alone ten, will you remember the extra hour of sleep, UA J, and saving 50K, or will you remember the nose of the 748 in LH F with a Porsche to the plane after sipping some top-shelf whiskey?

That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 14, 2016, 05:19:42 PM
good to see that most are not as crazy as AJK.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 05:20:43 PM
How tired are you? :)

 ;D

Ding ding ding. I seriously question (among other things) his ability to travel at all if this remains a question.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 05:21:51 PM
good to see that most are not as crazy as AJK.

As posted on DDMS:

Quote
Vote currently stands at 2/3 in favor of United itin.

. . .

Iíd wager that north of 80% of those people have never flown an F product, let alone LH F.

Living life for what its worth doesn't mean practicality trumps all.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: sruly on March 14, 2016, 05:28:10 PM
This ^

You think 50K is a premium? When again will you have the opportunity to fly solo? Right now, it's costing you 50K, which, last I checked, is less than 200K (50K x4).

To me, the fact that you haven't already switched calls into your question your sustained ability to run this site.

1) Flying solo (means don't have to bother wife and kids, nor having to pay for them);
2) Flying new LH F (which you have not done... comparing old to new is like comparing UA J to LH F)
3) FCT + Porsche
4) The "Hobby" is becoming less and less attractive. In a year or two, your 50K will be worth half that.

So you don't sleep another hour in a bed. In a year, let alone ten, will you remember the extra hour of sleep, UA J, and saving 50K, or will you remember the nose of the 748 in LH F with a Porsche to the plane after sipping some top-shelf whiskey?

That's what I thought.
Now that you put it this way I kinda agree with you.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Aaaron on March 14, 2016, 05:33:00 PM
Flip a coin.  You'll know when it's in the air what you really want.  But I suspect we all know the answer...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ad120 on March 14, 2016, 05:35:09 PM
As posted on DDMS:

Living life for what its worth doesn't mean practicality trumps all.
The poll doesnt seem trump like for you MR. AJK
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 14, 2016, 05:37:35 PM
As posted on DDMS:

Living life for what its worth doesn't mean practicality trumps all.
and id wager that at least half that voted to change agree that its not a sane decision and are voting in spite on that.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 05:39:36 PM
and id wager that at least half that voted to change agree that its not a sane decision and are voting in spite on that.

I don't know if "sane" is the word I'd use, but I'd agree the people who voted LH view the UA itinerary as more practical.

I'd counter with:

1) Flying solo (means don't have to bother wife and kids, nor having to pay for them);
2) Flying new LH F (which you have not done... comparing old to new is like comparing UA J to LH F)
3) FCT + Porsche
4) The "Hobby" is becoming less and less attractive. In a year or two, your 50K will be worth half that.

So you don't sleep another hour in a bed. In a year, let alone ten, will you remember the extra hour of sleep, UA J, and saving 50K, or will you remember the nose of the 748 in LH F with a Porsche to the plane after sipping some top-shelf whiskey?

That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 06:12:50 PM
This ^

You think 50K is a premium? When again will you have the opportunity to fly solo? Right now, it's costing you 50K, which, last I checked, is less than 200K (50K x4).

To me, the fact that you haven't already switched calls into your question your sustained ability to run this site.

1) Flying solo (means don't have to bother wife and kids, nor having to pay for them);
2) Flying new LH F (which you have not done... comparing old to new is like comparing UA J to LH F)
3) FCT + Porsche
4) The "Hobby" is becoming less and less attractive. In a year or two, your 50K will be worth half that.

So you don't sleep another hour in a bed. In a year, let alone ten, will you remember the extra hour of sleep, UA J, and saving 50K, or will you remember the nose of the 748 in LH F with a Porsche to the plane after sipping some top-shelf whiskey?

That's what I thought.
Ten years down the line, I would think you'd remember the time spent with your family more than the number sequence of the plane model and the car that drove you 50 feet to get on. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: sky121 on March 14, 2016, 06:22:34 PM
I'm surprised at the current  voting results.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: shmebeble on March 14, 2016, 06:28:18 PM
Ten years down the line, I would think you'd remember the time spent with your family more than the number sequence of the plane model and the car that drove you 50 feet to get on. Am I wrong?
Well overall the time is insignificant if his family doesn't need him this second. Chances are he'll remember the plane more.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 06:33:42 PM
Well overall the time is insignificant if his family doesn't need him this second. Chances are he'll remember the plane more.
Time spent with family is insignificant if they don't need you??!!  ???
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 06:45:28 PM
Ten years down the line, I would think you'd remember the time spent with your family more than the number sequence of the plane model and the car that drove you 50 feet to get on. Am I wrong?

Are you trolling? I can't tell if you want people to take this comment seriously.

Are you deliberately implying the extension of this trip makes a difference to the point that he (or they) will remember getting back at 5 PM as opposed to 11 PM ... in ten years from now?
Title: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: yitrap on March 14, 2016, 06:46:38 PM
I would definitely switch, incredible way to end the trip... Even with the coach parts of the itinerary.

Eta. There was a discussion a couple months back about taking the J/F Flight at the beginning or end of the trip if one had to choose... Anyone remember which side Dan took?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:49 PM
I would definitely switch, incredible way to end the trip... Even with the coach parts of the itinerary.

Eta. There was a discussion a couple months back about taking the J/F Flight at the beginning or end of the trip if one had to choose... Anyone remember which side Dan took?
I was on #TeamOutbound
Besides, last thing in my mouth will be the transfer to the RJ :P

I'm still really torn here.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: yitrap on March 14, 2016, 07:03:16 PM

I was on #TeamOutbound
Besides, last thing in my mouth will be the transfer to the RJ :P

I'm still really torn here.
I'd still do it, you're getting home the same night it's a difference of a couple of hours of sleep...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:05:38 PM
I'd still do it, you're getting home the same night it's a difference of a couple of hours of sleep...

Yeah, but you're forgetting his real opportunity cost. If he uses 50K UA here, he won't be able to use that same 50K to get a $50 Gap GC in 2017, because... as we all know, miles are getting *more* valuable and programs are *not* devaluing.

HT: AsherO
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:06:44 PM
I changed my mind. Take option 2 and come to a Doghouse DO during your connection  ;D. That'll fuel you through the RJ flight home.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AROCKS1 on March 14, 2016, 07:08:00 PM
While I think any other person on this forum would be overcome by the logic of staying with your current itinerary, I think you being you (king of maximizing on oportunities) are required to agree with AJK...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: yitrap on March 14, 2016, 07:11:51 PM

Yeah, but you're forgetting his real opportunity cost. If he uses 50K UA here, he won't be able to use that same 50K to get a $50 Gap GC in 2017, because... as we all know, miles are getting *more* valuable and programs are *not* devaluing.

HT: AsherO
I'm honestly not taking the 50k into equation here, I've seen pictures of Dan's account balance... It's not breaking the bank
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: hvaces42 on March 14, 2016, 07:12:23 PM
So is it the position of those that are in favor of Dan changing his itinerary that, given the opportunity and the wherewithal, one should always reroute from Europe to Eastern US through FRA on LH F if available and one hasnt recently or ever experienced FCT and LH F?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:13:36 PM
I'm honestly not taking the 50k into equation here, I've seen pictures of Dan's account balance... It's not breaking the bank

I told him this precisely.

But, hey, the longer he waits, the more likely someone else books the space and then he'll have made a decision by default, through inaction.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:15:27 PM
I'm honestly not taking the 50k into equation here, I've seen pictures of Dan's account balance... It's not breaking the bank

I hate when people make statements like this. Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less. 52.5k points is still 52.5k points. If Dan values them at $700, the question is if the LH flight is worth more than 7 hours away from home + an extra fligth + $700. For AJK, I'd imagine the answer would be yes. For most people, I'd imagine the answer would be no. For Dan, that's up to him to decide.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:16:07 PM
So is it the position of those that are in favor of Dan changing his itinerary that, given the opportunity and the wherewithal, one should always reroute from Europe to Eastern US through FRA on LH F if available and one hasnt recently or ever experienced FCT and LH F?

???
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 14, 2016, 07:19:16 PM
Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less.
Many economists would dispute your marginal utility analysis.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:21:20 PM
Many economists would dispute your marginal utility analysis.

I don't think so in this instance. And besides, that would impact the value he places on the point, not whether the points have a value.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:22:12 PM
I hate when people make statements like this. Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less. 52.5k points is still 52.5k points.

Wrong.

Your analysis begs two questions: 1) Miles are the same as dollars (they are not) and 2) Dan sells miles (he does not).

If a person has 109K UA and he needs 1K more for an LH award those 1K miles are worth X. If a person has 2 MM miles, he will not buy an additional 1K for X. The number will be <X.

There is a diminishing value to points, and that value becomes correspondingly smaller the larger the balance one has.

(In fact, many people would argue there is a diminishing utility even to cold, hard $$$. e.g. One will work very hard for his first million, but will work less hard for his 1,000th million.)

Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Matovu on March 14, 2016, 07:24:49 PM
Having been to FCT 2 months ago I voted to stay with UA
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:25:55 PM
Wrong.

Miles aren't dollars.

If a person has 109K UA and he needs 1K more for an LH award those 1K miles are worth X. If a person has 2 MM miles, he will not buy an additional 1K for X. The number will be <X.

There is a diminishing value to points, and that value becomes correspondingly smaller the larger the balance one has.

All of that would impact the value he places on his points, not whether the points have a value that should be considered here. Maybe for me it's 1.4, for Dan it's 1.1, and for you it's 0.5. They still have a value.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 14, 2016, 07:26:42 PM
And besides, that would impact the value he places on the point, not whether the points have a value.
They are his points, so isn't that the relevant question?
Consider a rich man deciding whether to "splurge" an extra $1 on a luxury vs. non-luxury brand. The fact that the same $1 is worth more to a homeless guy looking for subway fare won't factor into the rich-man's decision because the marginal utility of $1 to him is less than the same $1 to the homeless guy.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 14, 2016, 07:27:46 PM
(In fact, many people would argue there is a diminishing utility even to cold, hard $$$. e.g. One will work very hard for his first million, but will work less hard for his 1,000th million.)
BINGO! Marginal utility applies to both.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:29:25 PM
All of that would impact the value he places on his points, not whether the points have a value that should be considered here. Maybe for me it's 1.4, for Dan it's 1.1, and for you it's 0.5. They still have a value.

Wrong.

Your analysis begs two questions: 1) Miles are the same as dollars (they are not) and 2) Dan sells miles (he does not).
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:31:09 PM


Didn't know he doesn't sell. Regardless, he still places a value on his points, and 52.5k points is still likely several hundred bucks.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 07:33:18 PM
To me it seems that the question is how much he values his time. If the 2 itineraries were +- within an hour, no question he would opt for LH F. I personally chose more more mileage and connections vs direct flights to experience LH F and SQ R. Did it cost me a good 5-6 hours total? Yes. Did I think it was worth it for me considering it was my first trip flying in style? Yes. Now while it isn't a first for Dan, it does sound like 748 F is indeed for him. And to splurge a bit and be able to relax in one of the greatest "lounges" (Yes Matovu disagrees but it still was a great and fun experience to me and most others) while being solo and not shlepping kids does bring a nice well rounded ending to the trip; even if Dan is on Team #Outbound. And to not forget the last point, Dan is fully aware of all this and - TBQH - makes it quite evident that he would prefer the "crazy" routing via LH F but likes causing al the suspense and drama.  ::) :P
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 07:34:21 PM
Are you trolling? I can't tell if you want people to take this comment seriously.

Are you deliberately implying the extension of this trip makes a difference to the point that he (or they) will remember getting back at 5 PM as opposed to 11 PM ... in ten years from now?
I didn't read Dan's question, the DDMS post, or what you were responding to. I was just responding to the advantage of traveling solo vs family.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:35:09 PM
Didn't know he doesn't sell. Regardless, he still places a value on his points, and 52.5k points is still likely several hundred bucks.

Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 14, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
Didn't know he doesn't sell. Regardless, he still places a value on his points, and 52.5k points is still likely several hundred bucks.

Don't know about most people but when I started the game and knew I had a job and limited time to use miles I was definitely thinking about selling and "monetizing" on this. Having experienced some flights and booking some trips that will hopefully Wow me just came to show me that I am in this for amazing experiences that I would - less then 2 years ago - never imagined to be possible. While they are "worth" something to me, the experiences are worth more to me. Even if it isn't always the most economical of choices.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:36:55 PM
Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.

I dare you to find one economist that would agree with your opinion that 52.5k of Dan's UA miles should be worth $0.00 to him. You won't find any. Because it is simply untrue.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:37:18 PM
I didn't read Dan's question, the DDMS post, or what you were responding to. I was just responding to the advantage of traveling solo vs family.

So you're that guy who runs into a room, hears someone say, "He took the eggs! Is he guilty?" and you respond "Absolutely" because you think that stealing eggs is against the law, notwithstanding the fact that you have no idea why "he" "took" the eggs.

Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:37:59 PM
Don't know about most people but when I started the game and new I had a job and limited time to use miles I was definitely thinking about selling and "monetizing" on this. Having experienced some flights and booking some trips that will hopefully Wow me just came to show me that I am in this for amazing experiences that I would - less then 2 years ago - never imagined to be possible. While they are "worth" something to me, the experiences are worth more to me. Even if it isn't always the most economical of choices.

So you're agreeing with me that it's a question of what you value more.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:39:57 PM
I dare you to find one economist that would agree with your opinion that 52.5k of Dan's UA miles should be worth $0.00 to him. You won't find any. Because it is simply untrue.

Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 07:41:37 PM
Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.
The question would be whether the 50k were wasted at the time of burning of at the time of the decision not to sell. In either case, it would be a waste of money.
(Besides, the reason he doesn't sell is because he gets more value out of using them himself. In that light, he'd have to be gaining more than the selling value by his redemption. If I don't sell or cash them out A+ points, and use 10k points to get a $50 GameStop gift card, did I not waste money?)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ilherman on March 14, 2016, 07:42:14 PM
If you'd be a Goy then I'd understand why LH F is worth it. Otherwise I'll stick to what I said earlier.

Point to AJK:

You are such an addict that the meaning of "normal" became crazy and the meaning of "crazy" became normal.

Oiy vey vey, Dan, let's say how much of an addict you are. After loosing the votes on DDF for a change and you're still saying "I am torn" implies that you're in AJK's boat.

To all of you: I was there and did some therapy to come back. There is hope. AJK, having a kid at home helps a lot so if you already tried once try again now.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 07:44:25 PM
So you're that guy who runs into a room, hears someone say, "He took the eggs! Is he guilty?" and you respond "Absolutely" because you think that stealing eggs is against the law, notwithstanding the fact that you have no idea why "he" "took" the eggs.
I am the guy that when asked "He stole the eggs? Is that allowed?", would respond "Stealing is not allowed".
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:44:37 PM
Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.

I agree with that. I disagree that they have no value, which you seem to believe.

Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.

For that to be the case, it would have to be impossible for a person to consume his miles given his earn rate and consumption rate. I don't think that's the case for Dan.

And thanks for the Economics 101 lesson. I'm well past that.   
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 07:46:50 PM
Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.
How can the marginal utility be worth less than the cash value of an easily  liquidatable asset?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:47:25 PM
How can the marginal utility be worth less than the cash value of an easily  liquidatable asset?

It can't. The question is how liquid is the asset.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:48:46 PM
I agree with that. I disagree that they have no value, which you seem to believe.

For that to be the case, it would have to be impossible for a person to consume his miles given his earn rate and consumption rate. I don't think that's the case for Dan.

And thanks for the Economics 101 lesson. I'm well past that.

By all means, please point me to where I said miles have no value. You continue to say it, but fail to substantiate it.

And, as for being well past Economics 101, your posts belie that assertion. Sorry, actions posts speak louder than words claims.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 07:48:55 PM
All a moot point, because of the more than legal number of stopovers I can't get anyone to manually price any changes anyway.
I'll give it 1 more go, but then that'll be that. Not gonna stay up another while night for this.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:49:55 PM
How can the marginal utility be worth less than the cash value of an easily  liquidatable asset?

Another post which betrays the author's lack of familiarity with the particular law of economics we're discussing.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:51:41 PM
By all means, please point me to where I said miles have no value. You continue to say it, but fail to substantiate it.

And, as for being well past Economics 101, your posts belie that assertion. Sorry, actions posts speak louder than words claims.

Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 07:53:54 PM
FTR, Moish's line of reasoning that he PMd me worked better than AJKs to convince me.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:56:03 PM
Another post which betrays the author's lack of familiarity with the particular law of economics we're discussing.

Let's assume UR points can be redeemed instantly at a penny each in one point increments. Let's also assume that Dan has 100 million UR points. Explain how his points can be worth to him less than $1 million. And explain with words, not with meaningless statements about how "this post demonstrates that you lack an understanding of basic economics."
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 07:56:34 PM
@EJB,

If you think that quote means that I think UA miles are worthless, you're less worthy of this debate than I thought :P

Contrary to your mistaken misinterpretation, "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" does not mean I think UA miles are worthless.

"Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" means "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something [how much you value them in in excess of $0 I don't know]"

The point, which went whoosh, was that notwithstanding UA miles are worth some number, that number is less for him than it is for you, which I made pretty clear.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 07:59:34 PM
@EJB,

If you think that quote means that I think UA miles are worthless, you're less worthy of this debate than I thought :P

Contrary to your mistaken misinterpretation, "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" does not mean I think UA miles are worthless.

"Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" means "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something [however much in excess of $0 I don't know]"

If your point was just that they can be worth different amounts for different people, you should have just said that you agree with me. I agreed to that after you said that he doesn't sell his points. Yet, you still disagreed with my arguments that they have some value. That's why I interpreted that unclear statement of yours to mean that UR points have no value.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 07:59:47 PM
Rejected x 3 due to invalid ticket and she warned me not to push my luck again.
Good night ya'll, it's been fun :)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:01:08 PM
Let's assume UR points can be redeemed instantly at a penny each in one point increments. Let's also assume that Dan has 100 million UR points. Explain how his points can be worth to him less than $1 million. And explain with words, not with meaningless statements about how "this post demonstrates that you lack an understanding of basic economics."

No, I'm not going to learn you on marginal utility just to save you from doing your own Google research.

Buck up and hit the books.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:02:43 PM
If your point was just that they can be worth different amounts for different people, you should have just said that you agree with me. I agreed to that after you said that he doesn't sell his points. Yet, you still disagreed with my arguments that they have some value. That's why I interpreted that unclear statement of yours to mean that UR points have no value.

Except, I don't agree with that, at least not in the sense you're using it.

I'm not saying I objectively value UA at 1.2, you value at 1.3, and someone else at 2.7 and therefore UA is worth different amounts to different people. That line of reasoning has nothing to do with our respective balances, a direct component of the law of economics we're (I'm?) discussing, a fact you continue to ignore.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:02:48 PM
No, I'm not going to learn you on marginal utility just to save you from doing your own Google research.

Buck up and hit the books.

The books agree with me on this one...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:04:43 PM
The books agree with me on this one...

They don't. And no one else does either.

Law of Marginal Utility says Dan's additional miles are worth less to him than yours are to you. End of story.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 08:05:01 PM
Another post which betrays the author's lack of familiarity with the particular law of economics we're discussing.
The law you quoted would only make sense in application if Dan had an unlimited supply of money, which I don't think you would say he does. If the utility you are getting goes below the cash value you can achieve, you are taking a monetary loss. When your quoted law would apply would be if the cash loss is inconsequential based on the available quantity and rate of utilization, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's money down the drain.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:05:15 PM
Except, I don't agree with that, at least not in the sense you're using it.

I'm not saying I objectively value UA at 1.2, you value at 1.3, and someone else at 2.7 and therefore UA is worth different amounts to different people. That line of reasoning has nothing to do with our respective balances, a direct component of the law of economics we're (I'm?) discussing, a fact you continue to ignore.

Why are you assuming I'm ignoring that fact? How does "they can be worth different amounts for different people" turn into "they can be worth different amounts for different people with the same balances, earning patterns, and redemption patterns"?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:05:50 PM
The law you quoted would only make sense in application if Dan had an unlimited supply of money

Wrong.

And, no one is saying the 50K it would cost him is worthless.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:07:19 PM
They don't. And no one else does either.

Law of Marginal Utility says Dan's additional miles are worth less to him than yours are to you. End of story.

Lol, I'll give you a pass on this one, because you obviously haven't been reading our conversations.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:07:57 PM
Why are you assuming I'm ignoring that fact? How does "they can be worth different amounts for different people" turn into "they can be worth different amounts for different people with the same balances, earning patterns, and redemption patterns"?

Because it's the only thing it *could* mean based on your posts refusal to acknowledge a (what I thought was rathr simple) economic law.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:08:12 PM
Wrong.

And, no one is saying the 50K it would cost him is worthless.

Neither is anyone saying that "Dan's additional miles are not worth less to him than yours are to you"
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:10:26 PM
Lol, I'll give you a pass on this one, because you obviously haven't been reading our conversations.

I'd guess most people would agree with me that you're the one who needs the pass.

Neither is anyone saying that "Dan's additional miles are not worth less to him than yours are to you"

Uhm, really?

I hate when people make statements like this. Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less.

Many economists would dispute your marginal utility analysis.

Wrong.

There is a diminishing value to points, and that value becomes correspondingly smaller the larger the balance one has.

(In fact, many people would argue there is a diminishing utility even to cold, hard $$$. e.g. One will work very hard for his first million, but will work less hard for his 1,000th million.)

BINGO! Marginal utility applies to both.

Consider a rich man deciding whether to "splurge" an extra $1 on a luxury vs. non-luxury brand. The fact that the same $1 is worth more to a homeless guy looking for subway fare won't factor into the rich-man's decision because the marginal utility of $1 to him is less than the same $1 to the homeless guy.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:10:42 PM
Because it's the only thing it *could* mean based on your posts refusal to acknowledge a (what I thought was rathr simple) economic law.

I never refused to acknowledged an economic principle.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 08:12:13 PM
Wrong.

And, no one is saying the 50K it would cost him is worthless.
If 50k UA is going for $600, than it can't be worth less than $600 to you.
What you can say is that $600 to me is worth more than $600 to you, and apply your cited economic law to back that up.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 14, 2016, 08:12:35 PM
Other factor at play here is that as a 1K, I probably value my miles far more than anyone here.
IN space, fully refundable, upgradeable, etc, etc...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:13:04 PM
I'd guess most people would agree with me that you're the one who needs the pass.

Uhm, really?

Thanks for skipping my post where I said I didn't know that Dan doesn't sell his points. If it weren't for that, the size of his balance would make little difference on his valuation. And from that point onward, you continued to disagree with my assertions that the points have *a* value
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:16:26 PM
If 50k UA is going for $600, than it can't be worth less than $600 to you.
What you can say is that $600 to me is worth more than $600 to you, and apply your cited economic law to back that up.

Uhm, welcome aboard.

That *is* what I'm saying (if I'm understanding you correctly).

The entire conversation was spawned by EJB's mistaken assertion that:

Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less.

Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:17:14 PM
Thanks for skipping my post where I said I didn't know that Dan doesn't sell his points. If it weren't for that, the size of his balance would make little difference on his valuation. And from that point onward, you continued to disagree with my assertions that the points have *a* value

Again, if he *did* sell points, the same law applies to cold, hard, cash.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:18:54 PM
Uhm, welcome aboard.

That *is* what I'm saying (if I'm understanding your correctly).

The entire conversation was spawned by EJB's mistaken assertion that:

AJK, please re-read the thread in its entirety starting from that post. Because I've found at least 3 instances where you respond to something entirely different from what I wrote.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 08:19:37 PM
Again, if he *did* sell points, the same law applies to cold, hard, cash.

If 50k UA is going for $600, than it can't be worth less than $600 to you.
What you can say is that $600 to me is worth more than $600 to you, and apply your cited economic law to back that up.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:20:36 PM
Again, if he *did* sell points, the same law applies to cold, hard, cash.

I'm valuing the points in terms of those same dollars. If the dollars are worth 10% less, so are the points.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 08:22:42 PM
AJK, please re-read the thread in its entirety starting from that post. Because I've found at least 3 instances where you respond to something entirely different from what I wrote.

No, thanks. I've proved my point.



Oiy, and off the rails you go again.

$600 is worth $600. No one is disputing that. But $600 is worth less to a billionaire than to someone with $4, ergo, 100K UA is worth less to someone will 100MM UA than someone like EJB with 50K. Notice what I did NOT say: $600 is worth... $16.

Perhaps eliteflyer, or someone else who understands the principle, can explain it better than I apparently am.

Now it's back to work for me.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 14, 2016, 08:25:47 PM
No, thanks. I've proved my point.

Oiy, and off the rails you go again.

$600 is worth $600. No one is disputing that. But $600 is worth less to a billionaire than to someone with $4, ergo, 100K UA is worth less to someone will 100MM UA than someone like EJB with 50K. Notice what I did NOT say: $600 is worth... $16.

Perhaps eliteflyer, or someone else who understands the principle, can explain it better than I apparently am.

Now it's back to work for me.
That's exactly what I said. I thought I was pretty clear about that. Someone else said
Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Ergel on March 14, 2016, 08:28:22 PM
I told him this precisely.

But, hey, the longer he waits, the more likely someone else books the space and then he'll have made a decision by default, through inaction.
As a wise band once said "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice" (one of the great lyrics of all time)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:32:25 PM
Ok, I'll do the work for you

Here's a summary: My main point was that Dan's points have a value. I made a side statement that the fact that he has a lot of points does not diminish the value of his points. I conceded that the side point wasn't  true after AJK pointed out that Dan doesn't sell his points. I think AJK would disagree with the side point even if Dan were to sell his points, but he hasn't brought any justification for that.

I hate when people make statements like this. Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less. 52.5k points is still 52.5k points. If Dan values them at $700, the question is if the LH flight is worth more than 7 hours away from home + an extra fligth + $700. For AJK, I'd imagine the answer would be yes. For most people, I'd imagine the answer would be no. For Dan, that's up to him to decide.


Wrong.
Your analysis begs two questions: 1) Miles are the same as dollars (they are not) and 2) Dan sells miles (he does not).

All of that would impact the value he places on his points, not whether the points have a value that should be considered here. Maybe for me it's 1.4, for Dan it's 1.1, and for you it's 0.5. They still have a value.

Didn't know he doesn't sell. Regardless, he still places a value on his points, and 52.5k points is still likely several hundred bucks.

Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.

I dare you to find one economist that would agree with your opinion that 52.5k of Dan's UA miles should be worth $0.00 to him. You won't find any. Because it is simply untrue.

Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.

Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.

I agree with that. I disagree that they have no value, which you seem to believe.

For that to be the case, it would have to be impossible for a person to consume his miles given his earn rate and consumption rate. I don't think that's the case for Dan.

And thanks for the Economics 101 lesson. I'm well past that.

By all means, please point me to where I said miles have no value. You continue to say it, but fail to substantiate it.

And, as for being well past Economics 101, your posts belie that assertion. Sorry, actions posts speak louder than words claims.

Let's assume UR points can be redeemed instantly at a penny each in one point increments. Let's also assume that Dan has 100 million UR points. Explain how his points can be worth to him less than $1 million. And explain with words, not with meaningless statements about how "this post demonstrates that you lack an understanding of basic economics."

@EJB,

If you think that quote means that I think UA miles are worthless, you're less worthy of this debate than I thought :P

Contrary to your mistaken misinterpretation, "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" does not mean I think UA miles are worthless.

"Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" means "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something [how much you value them in in excess of $0 I don't know]"

The point, which went whoosh, was that notwithstanding UA miles are worth some number, that number is less for him than it is for you, which I made pretty clear.

If your point was just that they can be worth different amounts for different people, you should have just said that you agree with me. I agreed to that after you said that he doesn't sell his points. Yet, you still disagreed with my arguments that they have some value. That's why I interpreted that unclear statement of yours to mean that UR points have no value.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 14, 2016, 08:33:29 PM
That's exactly what I said. I thought I was pretty clear about that. Someone else said

AJK didn't mean what he wrote there. Good thing he's not my lawyer...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: shauly on March 14, 2016, 08:33:58 PM
The best part about this whole thing is that Dan has been totally talking to himself the last few pages here, while everyone argues about how he thinks.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: 12HRS on March 14, 2016, 09:49:39 PM
The best part about this whole thing is that Dan has been totally talking to himself the last few pages here, while everyone argues about how he thinks.

how has no one asked what Moishe's PM that convinced dan said??  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: mgarfin on March 14, 2016, 11:27:14 PM

Point to AJK:

You are such an addict that the meaning of "normal" became crazy and the meaning of "crazy" became normal.

Oiy vey vey, Dan, let's say how much of an addict you are. After loosing the votes on DDF for a change and you're still saying "I am torn" implies that you're in AJK's boat.

To all of you: I was there and did some therapy to come back. There is hope. AJK, having a kid at home helps a lot so if you already tried once try again now.

Wow this one went totally ignored, but was to the point.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ad120 on March 14, 2016, 11:46:18 PM
AJK:
The more you write, the less logical your arguments become.
Very condescending.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ad120 on March 14, 2016, 11:47:08 PM
Wow this one went totally ignored, but was to the point.
+100
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 14, 2016, 11:50:18 PM
AJK:
The more you write, the less logical your arguments become.
Very condescending.

OK, against my better judgment, I'll bite.

What about my arguments was illogical?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 12:00:30 AM
AJK didn't mean what he wrote there. Good thing he's not my lawyer...
I don't know what is more embarrassing. The fact that I wrote ambiguously, or the fact that you interpreted that purportedly ambiguous statement as meaning I thought UA was worth $0.00.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 12:05:31 AM
If you'd be a Goy then I'd understand why LH F is worth it. Otherwise I'll stick to what I said earlier.

Point to AJK:

You are such an addict that the meaning of "normal" became crazy and the meaning of "crazy" became normal.

Oiy vey vey, Dan, let's say how much of an addict you are. After loosing the votes on DDF for a change and you're still saying "I am torn" implies that you're in AJK's boat.

To all of you: I was there and did some therapy to come back. There is hope. AJK, having a kid at home helps a lot so if you already tried once try again now.

Wow this one went totally ignored, but was to the point.
So, now it's "crazy" to take an extra stop to fly F? When you have millions and millions of miles? When it's a rare opportunity and are flying solo? When miles are being devalued at every turn? When you can create memories to last a lifetime? When the it'll cost you a few hours but still get home the same day?

*That's* what you call crazy and "on point?"

I'm sorry, but when DDF become AARP?
Title: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 15, 2016, 12:06:04 AM
I don't know what is more embarrassing. The fact that I wrote ambiguously, or the fact that you interpreted that purportedly ambiguous statement as meaning I thought UA was worth $0.00.

The latter isn't embarrassing. You made it clear that you don't understand economics, and you continued to argue against my claim that even Dan's points have a value even though by now, I think you agree with it. I'm guessing you agreed with it then as well just didn't bother reading the entire conversation. Honest mistake. Regardless, I'm done here
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 15, 2016, 12:07:23 AM

I'm sorry, but when DDF become AARP?

In the fall, when half of ddf purchased membership :). Ok, now I'm out.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 12:08:36 AM
The latter isn't embarrassing. You made it clear that you don't understand economics, and you continued to argue against my claim that even Dan's points have a value even though by now, I think you agree with it. I'm guessing you agreed with it then as well just didn't bother reading the entire conversation. Honest mistake. Regardless, I'm done here

Nonsense. I never, not once, argued that Dan's points had no value. You did, however, try to make that my argument. And then cut that one down. But if you need an army of straw men to win an argument, well, that speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 12:10:39 AM
As a wise band once said "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice" (one of the great lyrics of all time)
True story.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ad120 on March 15, 2016, 12:23:28 AM
Get out the popcorn people.
Paging CM....(Wherever you are.)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 12:24:50 AM
What about my arguments was illogical?
Get out the popcorn people.
Paging CM....(Wherever you are.)

Nope. That's not gonna do it.

Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ad120 on March 15, 2016, 12:32:16 AM
Nope. That's not gonna do it.
Then how about EJB as well as yourself PM or meet each other and have this argument? Dan has already made his decision and therefore there is nothing else that will be said that can be useful to this thread's topic.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 12:38:58 AM


Then how about EJB as well as yourself PM or meet each other and have this argument? Dan has already made his decision and therefore there is nothing else that will be said that can be useful to this thread's topic.

That's what I thought. The line about my arguments lacking logic probably sounded better in your head than it did coming out of your mouth. Happens sometimes.

In any event, if you feel this thread has run its course, by all means, move along.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 15, 2016, 12:39:22 AM
Get out the popcorn people.
Paging CM....(Wherever you are.)
Meh. This isn't popcorn (nothing close). Oy, Reb CM, מה היה לנו?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ilherman on March 15, 2016, 01:19:44 AM
So, now it's "crazy" to take an extra stop to fly F? When you have millions and millions of miles? When it's a rare opportunity and are flying solo? When miles are being devalued at every turn? When you can create memories to last a lifetime? When the it'll cost you a few hours but still get home the same day?

*That's* what you call crazy and "on point?"

I'm sorry, but when DDF become AARP?
Oiy. I totally forgot to add  ;) ;) :P :P :P to my OP. I thought you'd add that by your self  8)

In any case you should take that as a compliment. I mean after all you are the one who went to the funeral of JJ F   ;D
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 15, 2016, 08:43:57 AM
Denied a 4th time, c'est la vie. Probably for the best anyway.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ar on March 15, 2016, 09:23:32 AM
Denied a 4th time, c'est la vie. Probably for the best anyway.

Denied what?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AsherO on March 15, 2016, 09:30:17 AM
Maybe people voted to avoid yet another Flight+ lounge (LH F + FCT) trip report, so that Dan could catch up on all these other trip reports (destination reports, actually) that are already way overdue :P
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 15, 2016, 09:33:15 AM
Maybe people voted to avoid yet another Flight+ lounge (LH F + FCT) trip report, so that Dan could catch up on all these other trip reports (destination reports, actually) that are already way overdue :P

Lol. On a side note, what happened to having TRs on DDMS? If Dan can't catch up with his own why not post some great other ones from DDF? Sure would *potentially* get more followers onto the forums and DDMS/Twitter if they can see some more extravaganza that is owed to the DDF World.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ilherman on March 15, 2016, 10:17:21 AM
Denied a 4th time, c'est la vie. Probably for the best anyway.
#notes.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ar on March 15, 2016, 10:35:03 AM
Denied what?? Don't get it..
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Ydad on March 15, 2016, 11:04:46 AM
Denied what?
Read the thread, pal. And DDMS once you are at it.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: mgarfin on March 15, 2016, 11:07:04 AM
Lol. On a side note, what happened to having TRs on DDMS? If Dan can't catch up with his own why not post some great other ones from DDF? Sure would *potentially* get more followers onto the forums if they can see some more extravaganza that is owed to the DDF World.

And who will proofread, edit, format to WordPress these?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 15, 2016, 11:09:55 AM
Lol. On a side note, what happened to having TRs on DDMS? If Dan can't catch up with his own why not post some great other ones from DDF? Sure would *potentially* get more followers onto the forums if they can see some more extravaganza that is owed to the DDF World.
More chasers of the "extravaganza that goes on in The Hobby" is the last thing DDF needs.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 11:22:08 AM
And who will proofread, edit, format to WordPress these?

Do you know how many editors of magazines and publications would die to have the sort of content that DDMS has with DDF?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the TRs would be edited by the proprietors of DDMS with input and approval by the author.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 11:24:03 AM
More chasers of the "extravaganza that goes on in The Hobby" is the last thing DDF needs.

This isn't about DDF. It's about DDMS. And if you don't understand the advantage to DDMS of having more visitors on the site--"chasers of the hobby" or otherwise--then you apparently don't understand the business model.

All else equal, more people = more revenue.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 11:24:41 AM
Denied a 4th time, c'est la vie. Probably for the best anyway.

At least we now know where your heart was.

 ;D
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 15, 2016, 11:27:34 AM
At least we now know where your heart was.

 ;D

We knew that since he started the thread. Well since he first posted question. Well, really since his phone vibrated and so a PM from you.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 15, 2016, 11:28:04 AM
This isn't about DDF. It's about DDMS. And if you don't understand the advantage to DDMS of having more visitors on the site--"chasers of the hobby" or otherwise--then you apparently don't understand the business model.

All else equal, more people = more revenue.
How does more people on DDF = more people in DDMS?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 15, 2016, 11:28:42 AM
More chasers of the "extravaganza that goes on in The Hobby" is the last thing DDF needs.

This isn't about DDF. It's about DDMS. And if you don't understand the advantage to DDMS of having more visitors on the site--"chasers of the hobby" or otherwise--then you apparently don't understand the business model.

All else equal, more people = more revenue.

+1
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 15, 2016, 11:29:00 AM
How does more people on DDF = more people in DDMS?

No. More people on DDMS = more revenue. Nothing to do with more people being on DDF.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 15, 2016, 11:30:45 AM
No. More people on DDMS = more revenue. Nothing to do with more people being on DDF.
Nobody claimed otherwise. Did you read the post I was responding to, or my post?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 15, 2016, 11:33:16 AM
How does more people on DDF = more people in DDMS?

<facepalm>

1) It wasn't my original point, but even this should be obvious. More people on the site is more people on the site. DDMS to DDF and vice versa.
2) You've (again?) missed the point: A post was made asking, "On a side note, what happened to having TRs on DDMS? If Dan can't catch up with his own why not post some great other ones from DDF?" You responded: "More chasers of the "extravaganza that goes on in The Hobby" is the last thing DDF needs."

I said, this isn't about DDF. It's about posting TRs from DDF to DDMS.

If it is not apparent by now, more traffic on DDMS/DDF/the site = more revenue.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 15, 2016, 11:33:50 AM
Nobody claimed otherwise. Did you read the post I was responding to, or my post?

I am not sure about your question as to why more DDF = more DDMS as the point was that more DDMS users = more revenue.

[Either way, to answer it anyways as it actually can be: More DDF users > Hopefully more TRs > More DDMS TRs > More DDMS users.]
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: David Smith on March 15, 2016, 11:36:01 AM
<facepalm>

1) It should be obvious.
2) You've (again?) missed the point: A post was made asking, "On a side note, what happened to having TRs on DDMS? If Dan can't catch up with his own why not post some great other ones from DDF?" You responded: "More chasers of the "extravaganza that goes on in The Hobby" is the last thing DDF needs."

I said, this isn't about DDF. It's about posting TRs from DDF to DDMS.

If it is not apparent by now, more traffic on DDMS = more revenue.
I asked if you read the post I was responding to. A simple no would've sufficed.
He said that TRs would get more followers on the forums, to which I responded that the forums doesn't need more followers.
On a side note, if DDF TRs are being posted, yours should definitely be first in line. Undoubtedly some of the finest content ever produced on DDF, IMO.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: benjie1305 on March 15, 2016, 11:39:24 AM
I asked if you read the post I was responding to. A simple no would've sufficed.
He said that TRs would get more followers on the forums, to which I responded that the forums doesn't need more followers.

I see where what caused the confusion and amended it. The DDMS/Twitter followers will create more revenue. DDF Followers is not what it is about but could also - in theory - help.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 15, 2016, 12:32:17 PM

Denied a 4th time, c'est la vie. Probably for the best anyway.
5th times a charm.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2016, 02:47:55 PM
Gd bless UA for refusing to change my flight. Couldn't be happier with their decision :D
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 16, 2016, 02:50:30 PM
Gd bless UA for refusing to change my flight. Couldn't be happier with their decision :D
because...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Emkay on March 16, 2016, 02:56:51 PM
because...
That was the normal decision.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: mgarfin on March 16, 2016, 02:56:58 PM
Gd bless UA for refusing to change my flight. Couldn't be happier with their decision :D

You came full circle!
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: username on March 16, 2016, 02:58:16 PM
They probably lost his luggage. Or something  like that...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2016, 03:03:11 PM
Because it was a great quick flight with plenty of space to sleep thanks to the bulkhead. And I'm enjoying F right now on my 2nd leg instead of having to gate check my parisian goodies on an RJ. And I have an extra 52.5K miles in the bank. And I'll be able to put my kids to bed tonight :)

Etc.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: rileywiles23 on March 16, 2016, 03:05:12 PM
Because it was a great quick flight with plenty of space to sleep thanks to the bulkhead. And I'm enjoying F right now on my 2nd leg instead of having to gate check my parisian goodies on an RJ. And I have an extra 52.5K miles in the bank. And I'll be able to put my kids to bed tonight :)

Etc.

That was the normal decision.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 16, 2016, 03:14:49 PM
Because it was a great quick flight with plenty of space to sleep thanks to the bulkhead. And I'm enjoying F right now on my 2nd leg instead of having to gate check my parisian goodies on an RJ. And I have an extra 52.5K miles in the bank. And I'll be able to put my kids to bed tonight :)

Etc.
Of course. These were all known factors going in...Thought there was another silver bullet.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: luckyluck on March 16, 2016, 03:57:14 PM
Arrived 75 minutes early!
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 04:34:34 PM
Because it was a great quick flight with plenty of space to sleep thanks to the bulkhead. And I'm enjoying F right now on my 2nd leg instead of having to gate check my parisian goodies on an RJ. And I have an extra 52.5K miles in the bank. And I'll be able to put my kids to bed tonight :)

Etc.

<Yawn>

But, hey, I applaud the effort to make lemonade out of lemons.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: ar on March 16, 2016, 05:11:39 PM
<Yawn>

But, hey, I applaud the effort to make lemonade out of lemons.

AJK, sorry but you were outvoted this time - just accept it!
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 06:50:02 PM
I'd rather be accused of taking advantage of opportunities and living life to its fullest than be accused of being bland and "too safe." I guess we know which side of the fence you fall out on, eh?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 06:57:23 PM
I'd rather be accused of taking advantage of opportunities and living life to its fullest than be accused of being bland and "too safe." I guess we know which side of the fence you fall out on, eh?

He is living life to its fullest, just with his family
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 07:10:35 PM
He is living life to its fullest, just with his family

Totally. I can definitely see 3 extra hours of family time on a random Wednesday in March 2016 is taking advantage of unique opportunities and being as memorable as LH F + FCT + Porsche.




No, really, I can.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 07:13:52 PM
Totally. I can definitely see 3 extra hours of family time on a random Wednesday in March 2016 being as memorable as LH F + FCT + Porsche.




No, really, I can.


It's 4 hours and 15 minutes  ;D
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 07:14:24 PM
So you, too, concede the point.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2016, 07:18:31 PM

It's 4 hours and 15 minutes  ;D
Closer to 6 hours later.
Regardless, as I said in DDMS, I'd have been much more proactive had I never done LH F/FCT/Porsche. Having done it already I don't regret not making 25 HUCAs and killing the day I had in Paris.

EU flights are so short that it's not a great use of miles anyway.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 07:20:57 PM
So you, too, concede the point.

I don't think essentially an extra evening home is meaningless. But I agree that it  would be less memorable. On the other hand, though, it would be a memorable experience that he wouldn't have enjoyed with his family.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: SearchGuy on March 16, 2016, 07:21:09 PM
Gd bless UA for refusing to change my flight. Couldn't be happier with their decision :D
I think you'd deserve they should accept your change just for not listening to everyone's advice...
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2016, 07:24:17 PM
Just wasn't worth the long-term AJK harassment to not at least attempt to change it ;)
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 07:25:31 PM
You'll get it anyway.

Bottom line is you know you'd be on me about it, too.
Title: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 07:25:52 PM
Just wasn't worth the long-term AJK harassment to not at least attempt to change it ;)

Eh, you didn't try enough
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 07:26:58 PM
I don't think essentially an extra evening home is meaningless. But I agree that it  would be less memorable. On the other hand, though, it would be a memorable experience that he wouldn't have enjoyed with his family.

Don't fall back into the straw man ways... I didn't say anything about "meaningless."

I said: "taking advantage of unique opportunities and being as memorable."
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2016, 07:27:04 PM
You'll get it anyway.
4 HUCAs (1K and ESD) is a valid effort. Wasn't in the cards. Would rather the extra stopovers anyway.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 07:27:20 PM
Eh, you didn't try enough

Finally, something we agree on.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 07:27:53 PM

Finally, something we agree on.

I think we agree on more things than we disagree on... Except for this statement
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2016, 07:29:24 PM
Eh, you didn't try enough
I did what I could without killing the day.
Killing my only day in Paris for a short and inconvenient F flight would take this from borderline insane to full blown asylum territory. All in all it was quite the productive day.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: SearchGuy on March 16, 2016, 07:30:34 PM
Just wasn't worth the long-term AJK harassment to not at least attempt to change it ;)
At least now you know whom to listen to?  :P
Title: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
Killing my only day in Paris for a short and inconvenient F flight would take this from borderline insane to full blown asylum territory.

Sounds like something Ajk would do without hesitation

But, in his defense, it is something you'd remember for the rest of your life
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: AJK on March 16, 2016, 08:24:08 PM
I'm don't know whether to be honored or scared you are delusional enough to think you know me so well.
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: EJB on March 16, 2016, 08:48:27 PM

I'm don't know whether to be honored or scared you are delusional enough to think you know me so well.

Both?
Title: Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
Post by: eliteflyer on March 17, 2016, 01:24:51 PM
I did what I could without killing the day.
Killing my only day in Paris for a short and inconvenient F flight would take this from borderline insane to full blown asylum territory. All in all it was quite the productive day.
Judging by your Instagram feed, I'd say it was a very productive day!