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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: takebacklakewood on October 28, 2016, 02:07:07 PM

Title: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 28, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
Alright, time for some discussion.

www.takebacklakewood.com
https://twitter.com/TakebackLKWD

1) Are you familiar with us and what we're trying to accomplish.
2) Agree or disagree
3) Are you one of the thousands that agree but think there is nothing that can be done? Well there is!! :)
4) Thoughts, comments and feedback.

We've accomplished a lot in a very short time and need public support to take this further....

If anyone is interested in substance and would like to privately email me - takebacklakewood@gmail.com I will keep your name confidential (or you can use an email that doesn't have your real name etc. I will add you to a list of people who are getting email updates and we can correspond on real ideas and substance.

Mods and other policemen- I apologize if you view this as self promotion. I am here simply to promote what I believe the majority of Lakewood's residents are very frustrated about. As individuals there is little to be done but as a united group we can change everything. I have no interest in self promotion, rather in motivating the public to stand up for what's currently ruining Lakewood due to overbuilding and density.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mmgfarb on October 28, 2016, 02:09:31 PM
Perfect timing, JTZ was looking for some popcorn after his little attempt failed
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on October 28, 2016, 02:13:38 PM
OP, since you made a screen name just for this, I assume you will be honest with us.
Tell me straight up in one word, take back Lakewood from WHOM? From the frai out kids? From the YU types? From the Hungarian chaseedishers? What's this movement about?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 28, 2016, 02:17:46 PM
OP, since you made a screen name just for this, I assume you will be honest with us.
Tell me straight up in one word, take back Lakewood from WHOM? From the frai out kids? From the YU types? From the Hungarian chaseedishers? What's this movement about?
From $$ hungry developers who buy an old house knock it down and build 10 houses with basements = 20 families with 40 cars.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: lubaby on October 28, 2016, 02:19:33 PM
From $$ hungry developers who buy an old house knock it down and build 10 houses with basements = 20 families with 40 cars.
While you're at it, pull them out of Brooklyn too.

Although here, instead of building new houses, they're building giant buildings.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on October 28, 2016, 02:34:03 PM
From $$ hungry developers who buy an old house knock it down and build 10 duplexes with basements = 40 families with 80 cars.
FTFY :o
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on October 28, 2016, 02:36:08 PM
From $$ hungry developers who buy an old house knock it down and build 10 houses with basements = 20 families with 40 cars.
You better hurry up because they're about to destroy James Street.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on October 28, 2016, 02:43:38 PM
As I read this thread I think he has a good point, but at the same time I'm thinking if I can get it on the developing I would be much happier
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 28, 2016, 02:44:32 PM
It is too late to stop that which was already approved. That doesn't mean we should roll up in a ball and sleep.

I'm working to save whatever is left of the future.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on October 28, 2016, 03:30:55 PM
As I read this thread I think he has a good point, but at the same time I'm thinking if I can get it on the developing I would be much happier
I dint believe you would at this point anyway, the last few developments have been selling a bit slow due to
1. so many new developments opening faster then lakewood growth i.e. people moving to Jackson etc
2. the price being so high and unaffordable and there's a lot less supplemental income from tenants as there's so many available the rates dropped.

I know for a fact in a few developments that opened recently numerous units were sold at cost price or below because the developer couldn't find buyers
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on October 28, 2016, 03:55:34 PM
I dint believe you would at this point anyway, the last few developments have been selling a bit slow due to
1. so many new developments opening faster then lakewood growth i.e. people moving to Jackson etc
2. the price being so high and unaffordable and there's a lot less supplemental income from tenants as there's so many available the rates dropped.

I know for a fact in a few developments that opened recently numerous units were sold at cost price or below because the developer couldn't find buyers
If you are correct this guy needs a new life Mission
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 28, 2016, 04:18:05 PM
@take back. I applaud your efforts.

The only way you will have any legitimacy, staying power, or make any real difference is if you put your name and face to your movement.
Otherwise bringing publicity is great, but it won't affect real change.

You need to either run a legitimate, clean, campaign and run for public office, or find someone else who will run for your cause.

Once you have real official power as an elected official, you should be able to appoint normal people to the zoning and planning birds and get this place in order.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on October 28, 2016, 04:20:48 PM
Perfect timing, JTZ was looking for some popcorn after his little attempt failed
Attempt, you have to be kidding me? I can turn this place into a burning building with my eyes closed.  :P
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 28, 2016, 04:22:23 PM
Attempt, you have to be kidding me? I can turn this place into a burning building with my eyes closed. 
Bring it!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mmgfarb on October 28, 2016, 04:22:49 PM
Bring it!
+1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on October 28, 2016, 04:24:53 PM
Bring it!
Unlike some here I do have some standards!  :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on October 28, 2016, 04:33:22 PM


I dint believe you would at this point anyway, the last few developments have been selling a bit slow due to
1. so many new developments opening faster then lakewood growth i.e. people moving to Jackson etc
2. the price being so high and unaffordable and there's a lot less supplemental income from tenants as there's so many available the rates dropped.

I know for a fact in a few developments that opened recently numerous units were sold at cost price or below because the developer couldn't find buyers

I'm sure the developers are a little smarter than that and wouldn't build with no demand.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on October 28, 2016, 04:36:57 PM

I'm sure the developers are a little smarter than that and wouldn't build with no demand.
When the developments were planned the theory was people wouldn't be moving "out of lakewood" so quickly thus the "need" for overcrowding
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 28, 2016, 04:38:30 PM

I'm sure the developers are a little smarter than that and wouldn't build with no demand.
There is very little demand for 600k+ duplexes with no space, if everyone is moving out to Jackson etc.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hvaces42 on October 29, 2016, 07:10:32 PM
Unlike some here I do have some standards!  :)
Yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater is illegal you know. 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on October 29, 2016, 07:30:52 PM
Yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater is illegal you know.
...not if it is on fire.  ;)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 08:27:08 PM
@take back. I applaud your efforts.

The only way you will have any legitimacy, staying power, or make any real difference is if you put your name and face to your movement.
Otherwise bringing publicity is great, but it won't affect real change.

You need to either run a legitimate, clean, campaign and run for public office, or find someone else who will run for your cause.

Once you have real official power as an elected official, you should be able to appoint normal people to the zoning and planning birds and get this place in order.
There's a very simple reason that I'm choosing to be anonymous.
If my name is out there as the person running this, it's very simple for this to be stopped. I get a call from a few Rabbis, a few threats and warnings that my kids will be kicked out of school, people start losing their jobs and suddenly everything is back to normal and the movement is squashed. If I'm an anonymous person at my computer, there is no way to stop me.

You may ask - why is is fair that I am anonymous and I'm asking you to stand up in public? The answer is that if the public is demanding something together, there is nothing they can do to stop it. If 100 people and eventually more come out together to a meeting and the committee sees the house of cards crashing down on top of them - they need to react to the demands of the public or they will be easily voted out of office.The fact is that most of Lakewood is not happy with what is going on but they all throw up their hands and say it's hopeless.

In just 3 weeks I've gotten all of the committee members to suddenly go on record that they want to stop density, direction issued to the planning board, zoning board and the master plan committee to stop approving variances, the planning board announcement this past week that they will give a hard look at all variances, two applications that would normally be approved were resoundingly denied, etc etc. Members of the Township committee have now promised to revamp the planning and zoning boards.

Do I believe all of the promises that are now being made? NO.
Have we made some progress and at least gotten the discussion going? YES
However we need the public to stand behind these efforts for them to be successful.

See my comment (toward the end) here http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/10/video-lakewood-residents-fed-up-with.html addressing the many couch quarterbacks who say - this town is corrupt but there is nothing that can be done. There is and there will be!!!

Once enough people see that something can be done we'll get new candidates for township committee etc. I've started with the density which while interconnected to many issues, is the primary issue facing Lakewood right now. If we solve other issues along the way and get committeemen who weren't in office for the past 13 years? Excellent.

So whether my name is Chaim Friedman or Boruch Schwartz or Dovid Yosopuf - is not important. All I'm trying to do is rally together the majority of Lakewood residents who are fed up to collectively band together and bring change.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 29, 2016, 08:38:26 PM
I still believe the this can be done better in a positive way, with the backing of many many rabbonim.

You are waging a "war". -Slogans like "takeback" and encouraging showing up demonstratively at meetings can, and are definitely working.. - you will have staying power with this as long as you don't push too far or hard.... Don't speak negatively ever against rabbonim, mosdos etc. Don't say cynical things like "you get kicked out of school etc". - If you do this you will be marginalized and dismissed as a trouble maker...in no time at all.




If you wage a positive, open, campaign with the backing of rabbonim you will be infinitely more successful in the long run.



If you stay positive you won't need to be anonymous, because you won't have that many enemies!


Either way. Keep it up!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on October 29, 2016, 08:42:47 PM
Don't speak negatively ever against rabbonim, mosdos etc. Don't say cynical things like "you get kicked out of school etc". - If you do this you will be marginalized and dismissed as a trouble maker...in no time at all.
+100!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yesitsme on October 29, 2016, 08:46:57 PM
takeacktomsriver.com = Antisemite
takeackmonsey.com = Antisemite
takeackKJ.com = Antisemite
takeackboroughpark.com = Antisemite
takebacklakewood.com =round of applause..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 29, 2016, 08:48:00 PM
+100!
Il add- Its totally not necessary or relevant for this battle...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: A3 on October 29, 2016, 09:04:10 PM
Maybe being back the Tent guys to scare everyone out.
Alex where are you?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on October 29, 2016, 09:05:15 PM
takeacktomsriver.com = Antisemite
takeackmonsey.com = Antisemite
takeackKJ.com = Antisemite
takeackboroughpark.com = Antisemite
takebacklakewood.com =round of applause..

Ummm, do you really not see the difference? 
One is "take back" from a certain demographic = problematic. 
One is "take back" from everybody due to over-congestion = not a problem.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 09:14:15 PM
I still believe the this can be done better in a positive way, with the backing of many many rabbonim.
You are waging a "war". -Slogans like "takeback" and encouraging showing up demonstratively at meetings can, and are definitely working.. - you will have staying power with this as long as you don't push too far or hard.... Don't speak negatively ever against rabbonim, mosdos etc. Don't say cynical things like "you get kicked out of school etc". - If you do this you will be marginalized and dismissed as a trouble maker...in no time at all.

If you wage a positive, open, campaign with the backing of rabbonim you will be infinitely more successful in the long run.

If you stay positive you won't need to be anonymous, because you won't have that many enemies!

Either way. Keep it up!!
Thank you for the valuable feedback - much appreciated. I would like to appeal to the average person in Lakewood so I don't want to be am marginalized movement.

Backing of Rabbanim - unfortunately I'd be hard pressed to find a reputable Rav to back this. Even with a more toned down message - people will say - You are going to hurt peoples parnassa. You are trying to stop the growth of Torah etc. I've gotten angry emails telling me that every yideshe home is a mikdash me'at and I'm trying to destroy that. I have no such nefarious plans. I simply want responsible building and responsible zoning and planning decisions which unfortunately has not been done until now. I have nothing against BMG but apparently by being realistic that this town has no room for 225K residents, my agenda does not align with theirs. There is so much room in all of the neighboring towns - there is simply no need to squeeze everyone into Lakewood and no there is no housing crisis (ie lack of housing).

Don't say cynical things like "you get kicked out of school etc". I have gotten numerous emails from people telling me that they's love to speak up but they are afraid that they will lose their jobs and have their kids kicked out of school. Unfortunately, the reality is that The Lakewood Scoop can't touch these topics with a 10 foot pole, HH can't send his kids to any schools in Lakewood, The Shopper refused to publish my letter etc etc etc. The developers and real estate guys have a really strong hold on this town and no  movement to stop them can succeed unless it is toeing the edge a drop and has massive public support. Being Mr. Sweetie pie and going to quiet meetings asking the committee nicely to please do something just won't cut it anymore. If they fear that they will be voted out then a fire will be lit under their feet.

I will consider your points etc, but please realize that the time for quiet nice polite requests has long passed. Much damage as already been done and it's too late to stop that but we need to do something about the future.

Again, I'm open to all ideas and suggestions. I'm not doing this for recognition, publicity, public office etc. I'm simply doing this to rally together the public to stand up against what is happening to Lakewood. Instead of just shaking my head and tsk tsking like everyone else has been doing, I'd like to actually bring some real change.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 09:19:13 PM
Il add- Its totally not necessary or relevant for this battle...
I agree. I do intend to keep things very civil. However, civility has many different meanings.

Is calling for a recall election to bring new blood to replace good ol M&M civil?
Is proposing a different growth plan than what BMG wants civil?
Is calling for many of the members of the zoning board to be removed civil?

Also, there is nothing wrong with people attending the meetings and getting up to speak. This is a democracy and the public has a right to be heard...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Toasted on October 29, 2016, 09:25:18 PM
Keep up the good work and BMG Will get your ip address from Dan pretty soon. 8)

Can you elaborate on how you pressured the committee etc. Nothing more than flyers in the shuls?

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 09:27:20 PM
Keep up the good work and BMG Will get your ip address from Dan pretty soon. 8)

Can you elaborate on how you pressured the committee etc. Nothing more than flyers in the shuls?
Correct. 2 letters in the voice, 2 weeks of signs in shuls and suddenly this is all they're talking about.

While they know this is a hot topic of concern to everyone, they need a fire lit at their feet to get them to actually act.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on October 29, 2016, 09:28:33 PM
I agree. I do intend to keep things very civil. However, civility has many different meanings.

Is calling for a recall election to bring new blood to replace good ol M&M civil?
Is proposing a different growth plan than what BMG wants civil?
Is calling for many of the members of the zoning board to be removed civil?

Also, there is nothing wrong with people attending the meetings and getting up to speak. This is a democracy and the public has a right to be heard...
For us outsiders, could you tell us who HH and M&M is? Thx
As a side, feel free to move to one of the dozens (hundreds?) of other frum communities that dont have this problem. Including many in the tristate area.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 09:32:09 PM
For us outsiders, could you tell us who HH and M&M is? Thx
As a side, feel free to move to one of the dozens (hundreds?) of other frum communities that dont have this problem. Including many in the tristate area.
For those that it is relevant to it's obvious.

Yes I can move. I'd rather not. Does that mean I should lay down and let people trample over my block/neighborhood/town? If I was alone in thinking this way it would be one thing. Seems like most of Lakewood agrees with me but gave up without even trying.

I figure it should be real easy to rally together the thousands of people who are upset about this against the handful of the developers (literally just a few people) who are ruining it for everyone.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Toasted on October 29, 2016, 09:34:42 PM
For those that it is relevant to it's obvious.

Yes I can move. I'd rather not. Does that mean I should lay down and let people trample over my block/neighborhood/town? If I was alone in thinking this way it would be one thing. Seems like most of Lakewood agrees with me but gave up without even trying.

I figure it should be real easy to rally together the thousands of people who are upset about this against the handful of the developers (literally just a few people) who are ruining it for everyone.
In what way can you outperform HH? He rallied many thousands but fell short because bmg/vaad controls most of the blind voters.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on October 29, 2016, 09:36:11 PM


As a side, feel free to move to one of the dozens (hundreds?) of other frum communities that dont have this problem.
Excuse my blunt response but that's a very dumb suggestion

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 29, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
In what way can you outperform HH? He rallied many thousands but fell short because bmg/vaad controls most of the blind voters.
hh failed because he became personal.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 09:38:30 PM
In what way can you outperform HH? He rallied many thousands but fell short because bmg/vaad controls most of the blind voters.
He started years ago when most of Lakewood were current BMG talmidim, the public drank up everything they were told and praised M&M for all of the chesed that they do.

While he did great work and brought lots of awareness, he has now been marginalized etc.

The public is now a lot wiser, they don't blindly listen to the Vaad and they can associate themselves with a clean campaign to stop the outrageous growth that they contend with each day as they sit in traffic etc.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mmgfarb on October 29, 2016, 09:39:20 PM
For those that it is relevant to it's obvious.
Maybe some "outsiders" would still like to follow the conversation.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 29, 2016, 09:54:24 PM
I'm gonna lose it soon!🙃

Can we please for heaven's sake stop inserting "BMG" as the source of all the town's evils???!?

Why on earth do you think BMG would be officially pro over development? Traffic? Satmar? Belz? Etc etc.

Even if you argue that these do end up benefiting BMG in some indirect way, by making the conversation about "corrupt" BMG, instead of the irresponsible, grossly incompetent, negligent and corrupt government of Lakewood, you automatically lose your audience.

I suggest you try to actually go sit down with the vaad of Lakewood! - I know this may sound shocking - but try it. - Explain your agenda, they may be actually be supportive! They can assert direct influence over elected officials. Lots of it... They are actually not all evil monsters..

But no one is going to listen to, or legitimize any campaign that speaks negatively of BMG etc.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 09:54:55 PM
Aaaand my site is down. Lol

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/

Hopefully just a server issue and not an attack. :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on October 29, 2016, 09:56:03 PM


I'm gonna lose it soon!🙃

Can we please for heaven's sake stop inserting "BMG" as the source of all the town's evils???!?
Dig your head in the sand, good idea.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 29, 2016, 09:57:49 PM
hh failed because he became personal.
What was his agenda anyway? Downtown. That's all. Who cared?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 10:01:14 PM
I'm gonna lose it soon!🙃

Can we please for heaven's sake stop inserting "BMG" as the source of all the town's evils???!?

Why on earth do you think BMG would be officially pro over development? Traffic? Satmar? Belz? Etc etc.

Even if you argue that these do end up benefiting BMG in some indirect way, by making the conversation about "corrupt" BMG, instead of the irresponsible, grossly incompetent, negligent and corrupt government of Lakewood, you automatically lose your audience.

I suggest you try to actually go sit down with the vaad of Lakewood! - I know this may sound shocking - but try it. - Explain your agenda, they may be actually be supportive! They can assert direct influence over elected officials. Lots of it... They are actually not all evil monsters..

But no one is going to listen to, or legitimize any campaign that speaks negatively of BMG etc.
Sorry, sorry. The fact is that they are the ones who sent in M&M and have been the proponents of the claim that our town needs to grow to 225K residents by 2030.
I agree and I'm not saying that they are the bad ones and you're right, I shouldn't mention them at all to avoid such appearance.

Is mentioning the Vaad ok?? I would sit down with them if I thought that
A)They still have influence
B)That they care to change things. They seem quite satisfied with the status quo and are doing nothing to stop it. Neither has any committee member until I brought this up. Also, say I meet with them and they are NOT predisposed to suddenly dis-align themselves with all of the wonderful developers? Well then there goes this movement as my existence is known and I'm squashed in one second.

Yes, a certain realtor for imperial is one of the biggest issues as he is actively recruiting thousands of NY residents to move to Lakewood. While I can't stop him from doing things legally, I can stop him from getting variances and potentially stop approval of large developments at all which can reduce his ability to continue to do what he is doing. 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 29, 2016, 10:14:54 PM
Is your agenda:

a) a scorched earth, drain the swamp, fight to the death clean up corruption. (aka, HH v2)

b) recognize that we can't change the past (your mantra?), therefore there is no need to blame or bash anyone - including M&M.
Rather run a campaign to raise massive awareness about the scope of the town's problems, and by this apply pressure on the governing bodies to cease and desist from further development.

If it a), you are going to fail and lose a lot..
If b)- you are holdings your nose and working within the current system to affect change anyway..
If so, go to the vaad, go get rabbinic backing. Etc

If you were totally above board and clean, (no negativity), you could even reach out to the Yated for publicity... (Shmuel berinboum should be a big ally imho) etc.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 29, 2016, 10:17:38 PM
Is your agenda:

a) a scorched earth, drain the swamp, fight to the death clean up corruption. (aka, HH v2)

b) recognize that we can't change the past (your mantra?), therefore there is no need to blame or bash anyone - including M&M.
Rather run a campaign to raise massive awareness about the scope of the town's problems, and by this apply pressure on the governing bodies to cease and desist from further development.

If it a), you are going to fail and lose a lot..
If b)- you are holdings your nose and working within the current system to affect change anyway..
If so, go to the vaad, go get rabbinic backing. Etc

If you were totally above board and clean, (no negativity), you could even reach out to the Yated for publicity... (Shmuel berinboum should be a big ally imho) etc.
Hh was not drain the swamp but replace one swamp with a different one
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 10:20:16 PM
Is your agenda:

a) a scorched earth, drain the swamp, fight to the death clean up corruption. (aka, HH v2)

b) recognize that we can't change the past (your mantra?), therefore there is no need to blame or bash anyone - including M&M.
Rather run a campaign to raise massive awareness about the scope of the town's problems, and by this apply pressure on the governing bodies to cease and desist from further development.

If it a), you are going to fail and lose a lot..
If b)- you are holdings your nose and working within the current system to affect change anyway..
If so, go to the vaad, go get rabbinic backing. Etc

If you were totally above board and clean, (no negativity), you could even reach out to the Yated for publicity... (Shmuel berinboum should be a big ally imho) etc.
While it is B, and I am working with various members of the township committee and of the zoning and planning boards (all of whom swear that they agree with me and will help out), unfortunately the establishment in Lakewood simply doesn't align with this view.

While I am aware that S. Birnbaum has voiced similar views in his paper, I was told that when people asked him to be more vocal and champion this cause he declined as he didn't want to upset the powers that be and ruffle too many feathers.

Will feathers be ruffled by this campaign? Yes. That is a fact. There is a lot of money on the line and there is no way that everyone will just line up to upzone instead of downzone and stop all of the over-development just because I ask them to nicely without any fear of losing their positions.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 10:22:20 PM
While I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm not here to scorch the earth, the reality is that it may be time for some new committee members....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 29, 2016, 10:25:18 PM
While I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm not here to scorch the earth, the reality is that it may be time for some new committee members....
Run baby Run!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 29, 2016, 10:29:45 PM
Frankly I'm a bit surprised that you really think sitting down with the Vaad will help.

Many people have asked me - why email the committee? Why get up and speak at the meetings? They all know this already.
My response is that they know it and are doing nothing. We need to force their hand to actually do something about it. From the looks of it we are off to a pretty good start so far. While their promises are encouraging, for many of them it is too little too late and they need to go.

Same goes for the vaad. They have been watching all this happen and did nothing. Will my conversation with them suddenly cause them to act in a way that will hurt all of the influential developers that they have strong relationships with?  Hah!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: nucheiner on October 29, 2016, 11:37:24 PM
There are many old alliances and friendships from the shtetl of Lakewood circa 1990 and the present politicians were all installed by those askanim and therefore must still abide and follow they're commands and requests. The only way to clean this up is to totally RESET and bring in new people from the top down.
Bottom line most residents do not recognize even one name on the Vaad. And if you don't know who they are you can be sure they don't know who you are.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jellybelly on October 29, 2016, 11:45:33 PM
Just got my ballot in the mail today. Does anyone know who this gross guy is that's running against akerman?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MarkS on October 29, 2016, 11:47:12 PM
Just got my ballot in the mail today. Does anyone know who this gross guy is that's running against akerman?
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/jackson-lakewood/lakewood/2016/10/27/lakewood-election-2016-committee-school-board/92764894/

UPDATE: Lakewood incumbent wants to curb growth

'I've been crying to curb it forever,' Lakewood Deputy Mayor Albert Akerman says of the township's explosive growth.

LAKEWOOD – Calling himself "the most anti-growth" member of the Township Committee, Republican incumbent Albert Akerman says more needs to be done to slow down development and upgrade the township's infrastructure.

"I've been crying to curb it forever," said Akerman, 40, who is seeking his third term on the governing body. "Now, suddenly, it's becoming in style to say it."

His opponent in the Nov. 8 election, Democratic newcomer Mordecai Gross, 38, doesn't disagree that growth poses a major challenge for Lakewood, but he says he's not in favor of any kind of building moratorium, as some residents have called for.

“It's very, very complicated. It's very nice to say, 'Let's slow things down,'" said Gross, a corporate attorney. "There are people who want to move to Lakewood. It's a challenge."

Akerman, a mortgage broker, hasn't come out in support of an all-out moratorium, either. But as mayor last year, he refused to put any zoning change requests on the committee's agenda. More recently, he's called for the creation of an advisory board of residents to study low-cost ways to improve traffic flow, piggy-backing on the recommendations that came from a recent traffic study of the badly congested Route 9 corridor by the North Jersey Transportation Planning Authority.

“I see the traffic myself, because I drive the streets everyday," Akerman said. "It's ridiculous and out of hand. Every few months I think, ‘Wow, it’s getting worse.’”

Gross said as a newcomer to local politics it's premature for him to propose any specific initiatives.

"I believe that I'm going to add a different, fresh perspective," he said. "I'm definitely ready to listen."
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on October 29, 2016, 11:55:12 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/jackson-lakewood/lakewood/2016/10/27/lakewood-election-2016-committee-school-board/92764894/

UPDATE: Lakewood incumbent wants to curb growth

'I've been crying to curb it forever,' Lakewood Deputy Mayor Albert Akerman says of the township's explosive growth.

LAKEWOOD – Calling himself "the most anti-growth" member of the Township Committee, Republican incumbent Albert Akerman says more needs to be done to slow down development and upgrade the township's infrastructure.

"I've been crying to curb it forever," said Akerman, 40, who is seeking his third term on the governing body. "Now, suddenly, it's becoming in style to say it."

His opponent in the Nov. 8 election, Democratic newcomer Mordecai Gross, 38, doesn't disagree that growth poses a major challenge for Lakewood, but he says he's not in favor of any kind of building moratorium, as some residents have called for.

“It's very, very complicated. It's very nice to say, 'Let's slow things down,'" said Gross, a corporate attorney. "There are people who want to move to Lakewood. It's a challenge."

Akerman, a mortgage broker, hasn't come out in support of an all-out moratorium, either. But as mayor last year, he refused to put any zoning change requests on the committee's agenda. More recently, he's called for the creation of an advisory board of residents to study low-cost ways to improve traffic flow, piggy-backing on the recommendations that came from a recent traffic study of the badly congested Route 9 corridor by the North Jersey Transportation Planning Authority.

“I see the traffic myself, because I drive the streets everyday," Akerman said. "It's ridiculous and out of hand. Every few months I think, ‘Wow, it’s getting worse.’”

Gross said as a newcomer to local politics it's premature for him to propose any specific initiatives.

"I believe that I'm going to add a different, fresh perspective," he said. "I'm definitely ready to listen."
Looks like a new vaad/BMG planted candidate
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 30, 2016, 12:01:28 AM
Looks like a new vaad/BMG planted candidate
or the newest attention seeker
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 12:17:23 AM
Ackerman is a mortgage broker.

Selling mortgages is his living.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 12:27:59 AM
UPDATE: Lakewood incumbent wants to curb growth

'I've been crying to curb it forever,' Lakewood Deputy Mayor Albert Akerman says of the township's explosive growth.

LAKEWOOD – Calling himself "the most anti-growth" member of the Township Committee, Republican incumbent Albert Akerman says more needs to be done to slow down development and upgrade the township's infrastructure.

"I've been crying to curb it forever," said Akerman, 40, who is seeking his third term on the governing body. "Now, suddenly, it's becoming in style to say it."

Akerman, a mortgage broker, hasn't come out in support of an all-out moratorium, either. But as mayor last year, he refused to put any zoning change requests on the committee's agenda. More recently, he's called for the creation of an advisory board of residents to study low-cost ways to improve traffic flow, piggy-backing on the recommendations that came from a recent traffic study of the badly congested Route 9 corridor by the North Jersey Transportation Planning Authority.

“I see the traffic myself, because I drive the streets everyday," Akerman said. "It's ridiculous and out of hand. Every few months I think, ‘Wow, it’s getting worse.’”
There you go. Was this even a discussion before I started this campaign?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on October 30, 2016, 12:41:49 AM
There are many old alliances and friendships from the shtetl of Lakewood circa 1990 and the present politicians were all installed by those askanim and therefore must still abide and follow they're commands and requests. The only way to clean this up is to totally RESET and bring in new people from the top down.
Bottom line most residents do not recognize even one name on the Vaad. And if you don't know who they are you can be sure they don't know who you are.

Remember what happened with the Board of Ed? Everyone said great idea get rid of M I and bring in new guys who are sincere and will represent us and it will solve all of the problems. The new guys had a great idea- bring in a state monitor and the state will give us more money and solve all of our problems. Well the new guys who were supposed to solve all of our problems are gone and left us with a situation that we are suffering from every day. On the one hand taxes have shot up, and on the other, transportarion is a mess, not to mention a host of other problems. It turned out that getting rid of M I who knew the ropes wasn't such a brilliant idea after all. It took us from the frying pan into the fire. So, getting rid of current players and replacing them with new well meaning people is probably going to cause more problems than it solves. The only viable solution is to make the issue impossible for the committee or the powers that be to ignore by demonstrating that a huge segment of Lakewood is opposed to the current business as usual and will no longer stand for the status quo. It needs to be done respectfully but clearly and vociferously to make it clear that the interests of a few individuals can no longer be put ahead of the needs of thousands of Lakewoods residents.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Mordyk on October 30, 2016, 01:09:03 AM
why are half the posters on this thread new DDFers?  probably all have same IP addresses.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 01:13:56 AM
I only see 2 new posters (besides my account) and they are not me. They are probably people who are simply afraid to speak up as are many of the people that have emailed me.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:15:36 AM
I'm gonna lose it soon!🙃

Can we please for heaven's sake stop inserting "BMG" as the source of all the town's evils???!?

Why on earth do you think BMG would be officially pro over development? Traffic? Satmar? Belz? Etc etc.
Because all they care about is money. They don't care about traffic/parking problems. You can see that from their own projects. They built an 1100 seat BM and didn't add even one additional parking spot! (They actually took away 40 spots when they built the building)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:17:23 AM

But no one is going to listen to, or legitimize any campaign that speaks negatively of BMG etc.
Lol. That's the way it used to be when LKWD was made up of puppet yungeleit. Those days are long over.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:18:53 AM

I suggest you try to actually go sit down with the vaad of Lakewood! - I know this may sound shocking - but try it. - Explain your agenda, they may be actually be supportive! They can assert direct influence over elected officials. Lots of it... They are actually not all evil monsters..
This comment strongly suggests that you are either affiliated with the vaad, or unaware of what/who the vaad is and does.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:21:42 AM
I still believe the this can be done better in a positive way, with the backing of many many rabbonim.
No Rav in town will back a campaign that isn't aligned with BMG.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:23:26 AM
Don't say cynical things like "you get kicked out of school etc"
That's the reality. Many people have gotten the threat, so they stopped in their tracks. HH didn't stop, and guess what happened. ..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 01:26:16 AM
Speaking of the Vaad....
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/10/will-lakewood-vaad-issue-presidential.html?m=1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on October 30, 2016, 01:40:26 AM
cbc is 100 percent correct if you even mention BMG you will lose all credibility and come across as bitter. I don't think replacing M&M is the way to go they are both smart and capable and understand local and state politics and have been baalei chesed way before they  got involved in politics.I  think anyone as capable as them would be a fool to consider running. In my opinion the way to go is to keep the pressure on them and make them understand they will be under scrutiny from now on .
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 08:03:24 AM
Remember what happened with the Board of Ed? Everyone said great idea get rid of M I and bring in new guys who are sincere and will represent us and it will solve all of the problems. The new guys had a great idea- bring in a state monitor and the state will give us more money and solve all of our problems. Well the new guys who were supposed to solve all of our problems are gone and left us with a situation that we are suffering from every day. On the one hand taxes have shot up, and on the other, transportarion is a mess, not to mention a host of other problems. It turned out that getting rid of M I who knew the ropes wasn't such a brilliant idea after all. It took us from the frying pan into the fire. So, getting rid of current players and replacing them with new well meaning people is probably going to cause more problems than it solves. The only viable solution is to make the issue impossible for the committee or the powers that be to ignore by demonstrating that a huge segment of Lakewood is opposed to the current business as usual and will no longer stand for the status quo. It needs to be done respectfully but clearly and vociferously to make it clear that the interests of a few individuals can no longer be put ahead of the needs of thousands of Lakewoods residents.

cbc is 100 percent correct if you even mention BMG you will lose all credibility and come across as bitter. I don't think replacing M&M is the way to go they are both smart and capable and understand local and state politics and have been baalei chesed way before they  got involved in politics.I  think anyone as capable as them would be a fool to consider running. In my opinion the way to go is to keep the pressure on them and make them understand they will be under scrutiny from now on .
Exactly.

The vaad is comprised of very experienced and highly capable askonim. They have decades of experience doing this work. - Replace them with young whippersnappers wannabes, with zero experience, who could never be bothers to even try to seek sage advice from anyone, not to mention daas Torah,  you will get a failure of epic proportions. - AKA BOE


Developers for years have received preferential treatment by all the government bodies of Lakewood. - This was NOT done nefariously. It was always seen as legitimate "askonus" to make life easier for builders who were building decent quality homes for Lakewood (ostensibly all yeshiva people). Places like Westgate were legitimatly seen as a positive development that will make life easier for yeshiva people. (I argue that this was one hundred percent correct). Therefore Lakewood voted in good people who can get things approved.


Then the implosion of Lakewood happened. - Things got way out of hand when two things happened. 1) Lakewood became a non yeshiva centered, small contained town, as virtually all of Brooklyn's children realized that this is a place to live the good life cheap.. 2) the capitalist vulture developers and investors moved in hard to take advantage of opportunities to make bank.

The various zoning planning and government boards comprised of innocent ex yeshiva guys were totally blindsided by the above. - they were untrained, unprepared and basically had no idea how to deal with it. They didn't see the risks of all the massive development until it was way too late. The model always was to approve everything. They didnt realize that saying "no" to a proposal was good for Lakewood in the long run.
I am not condoning the irresponsible behavior. Just rationalizing it..



All we need to do now is educate and change mentality of the governing bodies. Getting the vaad on board to help with this mission would be amazing. Getting roshei yeshiva on board should be easy.

It just needs to be done properly and professionally. With the correct attitude.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on October 30, 2016, 08:22:43 AM
Take bake Lakewood, if u are not smart enough to take CBC's advise u have no chance at getting anything done
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 08:32:50 AM
No Rav in town will back a campaign that isn't aligned with BMG.
Of course not. I would hope that any Rov would have at minimum a modicum of respect for yeshiva.

The question really is what happened to guys like you, that your opinions are the antithesis of what any Rov would think??!? 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 08:34:31 AM
This comment strongly suggests that you are either affiliated with the vaad, or unaware of what/who the vaad is and does.
You my friend are the clueless one. What do you know of the vaad? Where do you get your information? A coffee room of some BP transplanted shteeble? Or HH's twitter account?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 08:58:12 AM
Exactly.
The vaad is comprised of very experienced and highly capable askonim. They have decades of experience doing this work. - Replace them with young whippersnappers wannabes, with zero experience, who could never be bothers to even try to seek sage advice from anyone, not to mention daas Torah,  you will get a failure of epic proportions. - AKA BOE

Developers for years have received preferential treatment by all the government bodies of Lakewood. - This was NOT done nefariously. It was always seen as legitimate "askonus" to make life easier for builders who were building decent quality homes for Lakewood (ostensibly all yeshiva people). Places like Westgate were legitimatly seen as a positive development that will make life easier for yeshiva people. (I argue that this was one hundred percent correct). Therefore Lakewood voted in good people who can get things approved.

Then the implosion of Lakewood happened. - Things got way out of hand when two things happened. 1) Lakewood became a non yeshiva centered, small contained town, as virtually all of Brooklyn's children realized that this is a place to live the good life cheap.. 2) the capitalist vulture developers and investors moved in hard to take advantage of opportunities to make bank.

The various zoning planning and government boards comprised of innocent ex yeshiva guys were totally blindsided by the above. - they were untrained, unprepared and basically had no idea how to deal with it. They didn't see the risks of all the massive development until it was way too late. The model always was to approve everything. They didnt realize that saying "no" to a proposal was good for Lakewood in the long run.
I am not condoning the irresponsible behavior. Just rationalizing it..

All we need to do now is educate and change mentality of the governing bodies. Getting the vaad on board to help with this mission would be amazing. Getting roshei yeshiva on board should be easy.

It just needs to be done properly and professionally. With the correct attitude.
You make some excellent and valid points.  The realization of the implosion is the reason that the committee and boards are so readily jumping on board with this. They realize we dug ourselves into a hole and that they need to start digging back out now.

Unfortunately though there are still very deep ties other the developers and I don't see those disappearing overnight. Therefore, I simply don't see the VAAD or AK being willing to make a sudden about face and stop backing the developers. They are free to reach out to me but I just don't see a viable path to real change by going to them and asking them nicely to change things . They knew about this problem without me and did nothing.

I agree that many of the public officials were simply going with the flow until now and that now this is a great opportunity for them to jump on the bandwagon of change and to start toughening up and standing up to developers.

Come to think about it, you make some excellent points there about the changing times in Lakewood.  Why not get up at the committee meeting Thurs Nov 10th and talk about that?

No need to associate yourself with any named movement. I'm not in this for PR or name recognition. I simply want something done to stop the overdevelopment.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 09:25:36 AM
Another point - I don't have the time or intention to turn this into a full time job. My hope is that by bringing up awareness, many people in Lakewood will be motivated to get involved and to take up the cause.

Those people can very well go to the Vaad and to the Roshei Yeshiva etc. I know someone who did speak to the Roshei Yeshiva about this (before I came around) and from what I understand they were not supportive.

This can't all be done by one person. It will only work if many of the residents of Lakewood are in agreement that there is a problem and all join in both on their own and as part of a group to change things.

Since you seem to agree that there is an implosion - why don't you go meet a Vaad member? See if they are receptive. If they agree and they take up the cause? Perfect. Less work for me to do!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 10:16:28 AM
While reading this, I can't stop thinking of what is going on in Eretz Yisroel known as TAMA 38.

I've seen dwelling saturation double, triple, or even more, without the proper upgrade to surrounding infrastructure. It's very short sighted IMHO, but the government is hell bent on increasing housing availability, and is therefore biased in favor of the developers over long time residents (who often get a financial gain out of it, but subject themselves to hardship, risks, and as I said, inadequate infrastructure).

I think it is close to impossible to stop growth, I would suggest that you focus on making upgrade to SURROUNDING infrastructure a precondition to new developments, not just the infrastructure that directly affects the development.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Emkay on October 30, 2016, 10:20:03 AM
While reading this, I can't stop thinking of what is going on in Eretz Yisroel known as TAMA 38.

I've seen dwelling saturation double, triple, or even more, without the proper upgrade to surrounding infrastructure. It's very short sighted IMHO, but the government is hell bent on increasing housing availability, and is therefore biased in favor of the developers over long time residents (who often get a financial gain out of it, but subject themselves to hardship, risks, and as I said, inadequate infrastructure).

I think it is close to impossible to stop growth, I would suggest that you focus on making upgrade to SURROUNDING infrastructure a precondition to new developments, not just the infrastructure that directly affects the development.
Are you aware of how TAMA 38 works? Basically everyone ends up happy.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 10:48:15 AM
Are you aware of how TAMA 38 works? Basically everyone ends up happy.
I am FULLY aware. Are you aware of the strain on SURROUNDING infrastructure.

It's better when they actually take down a few buildings or an entire block and then build ,but have you seen narrow streets get 5 and 6 story buildings, where there were single family houses or 2 story old buildings?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 10:52:42 AM
I think it is close to impossible to stop growth, I would suggest that you focus on making upgrade to SURROUNDING infrastructure a precondition to new developments, not just the infrastructure that directly affects the development.
Good point. Unfortunately, there is no money available to drastically upgrade infrastructure. I have made it a point to the township committee, that we need to pass an ordinance that forces developers to pay an impact fee that covers more than just the immediate roadway in front of the development. In Ocean County there is such an ordinance and developers have to pave and widen the entire street and pay for lights at the nearby intersections which Lakewood does not do.

While upgrading infrastructure is needed as well, all upgrades are worthless if we don't control the building. We can't let the committee think that a traffic study and some quick fixes will solve this problem and therefore the main focus must be first on the density and only once that is under control can we focus on infrastructure. 

As far as stopping the growth - I fully understand that if someone owns property they have the legal right to build on it. The township has no legal right to have a moratorium on all building. My main focus is on not allowing more than the allowable housing. If a lot fits 5 houses, don't put up 20 houses with dozens of variances. Also, in regard to large developments there probably are legal grounds for a moratorium. Even with no variances, I believe the township can pass ordinances calling for a halt to approving large development projects due to safety and traffic/infrastructure concerns.

A point I've often made - it's not like there is nowhere else to go. In Manhattan - you are limited in space and stuck on an Island. Therefore you need to build dense and build up. Lakewood is a contiguous land mass connected to Brick, Howell, Toms River and Jackson. Beyond those there is Lakehurst, Manchester, Lacey etc. There is the whole NJ!!!

I don;t care if 500,000 people want to join the area and move into all of the surrounding towns. There is simply no room and no need to allow everyone who wants to move to here to squeeze into Lakewood.

Fact: Until now all articles about Lakewood's growth glowingly talked about how by the year 2030 we will have 225,000 residents and the need to properly build up our town in a really dense way to accommodate that.
Fact: With 115K residents Lakewood is bursting at the seams. There is no way in the world possible to grow Lakewood to 225K residents even with all of the infrastructure upgrades that the committee could dream of.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on October 30, 2016, 10:55:31 AM
CBC et al make a good point.  The experience of M&M and the vaad is invaluable.  It's worth trying to work with them.  And if you're scared of losing your anonymity,  even when approaching with respect and not bashing the yeshiva,  then you're campaign won't get to far,  because it is leader less.
Do you think the yeshiva wants Brooklyn to move to Lakewood? Heck,  I remember when they would get upset that restaurants had seating!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Emkay on October 30, 2016, 10:56:30 AM


I am FULLY aware. Are you aware of the strain on SURROUNDING infrastructure.

It's better when they actually take down a few buildings or an entire block and then build ,but have you seen narrow streets get 5 and 6 story buildings, where there were single family houses or 2 story old buildings?
please show me where a single case of a single family house turning into a 5-6 story building in this program.
I live in Jerusalem in a building that will prob be undergoing TAMA 38 shortly. I am not too happy and will likely move but I personally think it's genius.
Can you clarify what you mean by strain on surrounding infrastructure?

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 10:57:48 AM
CBC et al make a good point.  The experience of M&M and the vaad is invaluable.  It's worth trying to work with them.  And if you're scared of losing your anonymity,  even when approaching with respect and not bashing the yeshiva,  then you're campaign won't get to far,  because it is leader less.
Do you think the yeshiva wants Brooklyn to move to Lakewood? Heck,  I remember when they would get upset that restaurants had seating!
Akerman reached out to me and offered to meet. I know De'lia is interested in meeting as well.  I've talked to various committee members of the Planning and Zoning Boards.

I'm happy to engage with M&M by phone but they don't respond to my emails.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on October 30, 2016, 11:02:57 AM

Yes, a certain realtor for imperial is one of the biggest issues as he is actively recruiting thousands of NY residents to move to Lakewood. While I can't stop him from doing things legally, I can stop him from getting variances and potentially stop approval of large developments at all which can reduce his ability to continue to do what he is doing.

this is by far the biggest issue, the question is who is backing him

LOL on the shopper not taking your letter v'hamyven yovin
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on October 30, 2016, 11:03:17 AM
Akerman reached out to me and offered to meet. I know De'lia is interested in meeting as well.  I've talked to various committee members of the Planning and Zoning Boards.

I'm happy to engage with M&M by phone but they don't respond to my emails.
Maybe because they get a lot of anonymous hate emails?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 11:07:28 AM
Good point. Unfortunately, there is no money available to drastically upgrade infrastructure. I have made it a point to the township committee, that we need to pass an ordinance that forces developers to pay an impact fee that covers more than just the immediate roadway in front of the development. In Ocean County there is such an ordinance and developers have to pave and widen the entire street and pay for lights at the nearby intersections which Lakewood does not do.
That is where you should concentrate your efforts.

When you start off in a combatative mode ("take back") you are drawing battle lines, and in a battle there are always winners and losers, and along the way unanticipated alliances get formed. You never know who will win (though I would guess that it is likely to be where the big money is) or who will end up as your friend or enemy.

I would suggest scrapping your "Take Back Lakewood" campaign, and start something along the lines of "Sensible Growth for Lakewood". By going that way, you are not positioning yourself AGAINST anyone, but FOR a good cause. If any of this makes sense to you, I suggest you stop and think strategically about that kind of a campaign, and launch it in a well thought out manner. Good luck!

P.s.
Infrastructure is not only about wider streets, traffic lights etc. It's also about making sure there are communal needs taken care of (shuls, mikvaos, shopping, etc etc).
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 11:09:45 AM
Maybe because they get a lot of anonymous hate emails?
I get that and I don't envy their position.

That being said, if they really are interested in changing something than they know where to reach me. Forget about reaching me. I don't need to teach them what needs to be done. They promised to revamp the zoning and planning boards and they can do that with or without my guidance.

At this past weeks Township Committee meeting Akerman said that since Jan 1 2015 the Township Committee decided that they won't approve any more rezoning or variances on their committee. He said they did not realize that everyone would just circumvent them and run to the zoning board instead. Well well well, I guess it took me to point it out to them and now they finally know about it. 

Time to fix that now!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on October 30, 2016, 11:13:30 AM
That is where you should concentrate your efforts.

When you start off in a combatative mode ("take back") you are drawing battle lines, and in a battle there are always winners and losers, and along the way unanticipated alliances get formed. You never know who will win (though I would guess that it is likely to be where the big money is) or who will end up as your friend or enemy.

I would suggest scrapping your "Take Back Lakewood" campaign, and start something along the lines of "Sensible Growth for Lakewood". By going that way, you are not positioning yourself AGAINST anyone, but FOR a good cause. If any of this makes sense to you, I suggest you stop and think strategically about that kind of a campaign, and launch it in a well thought out manner. Good luck!

P.s.
Infrastructure is not only about wider streets, traffic lights etc. It's also about making sure there are communal needs taken care of (shuls, mikvaos, shopping, etc etc).
This they do. Every decent sized development has a shul (clubhouse) and many have mikvaos for shabbos at least
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 11:15:18 AM
I would suggest scrapping your "Take Back Lakewood" campaign, and start something along the lines of "Sensible Growth for Lakewood". By going that way, you are not positioning yourself AGAINST anyone, but FOR a good cause. If any of this makes sense to you, I suggest you stop and think strategically about that kind of a campaign, and launch it in a well thought out manner. Good luck!
Excellent point which I will strongly consider. I do firmly believe though that if would have started this as a "Sensible Growth for Lakewood" campaign run by Chaim Yosepuf asking nicely for them to please change the way things are currently operating - I would have gotten nowhere.

The committeemen would not fear that they may lose their seats. This would not be a dominating topic of discussion at the meetings, and there would be nothing more than a few flowery statements and then back to business as usual. You do sometimes need more than just asking the committee to pretty please stop what they've been allowing for the past 15 years.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 11:18:15 AM
This they do. Every decent sized development has a shul (clubhouse) and many have mikvaos for shabbos at least
Excellent. Unfortunately where I live this has not been the norm.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 11:22:58 AM
please show me where a single case of a single family house turning into a 5-6 story building in this program.
I live in Jerusalem in a building that will prob be undergoing TAMA 38 shortly. I am not too happy and will likely move but I personally think it's genius.
I will probably be in Eretz Yisroel towards the end of Teves, if you are interested I can take you on a tour to show you what goes on.

Quote
Can you clarify what you mean by strain on surrounding infrastructure?
Have you ever heard of Urban Planning (or lack thereof)?

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 11:29:23 AM
Have you ever heard of Urban Planning (or lack thereof)?
Oh we have a master plan committee. And they have a subcommittee devoted to housing density. Unfortunately, almost all of the members of the committee have special interests and profit from the high density building and have every motivation to make sure that it continues.

Feel free to watch the view of their meeting here which was deeply concerning:



Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on October 30, 2016, 11:34:21 AM
Feel free to watch the view of their meeting here which was deeply concerning:
Are you the one texting?  :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 11:46:09 AM
Maybe because they get a lot of anonymous hate emails?
+1

More so, take back is encouraging war against M&M. Calling them out as the source of the problems etc. No way they will hop on board at this point.

They will gladly join any positive populist movement imho.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mmgfarb on October 30, 2016, 11:47:10 AM
Are you the one texting?  :)
I think he's on Facebook
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on October 30, 2016, 11:48:06 AM
+1

More so, take back is encouraging war against M&M. Calling them out as the source of the problems etc. No way they will hop on board at this point.

They will gladly join any positive populist movement imho.
You are obvious oblivious to all the corruption this town has become entangled with.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 11:59:54 AM
Are you the one texting?  :)
No that is HH.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 12:04:09 PM
I should add - even the Voice who was the only one (besides hefkervelt) to publish my 2 submitted letters that started this all off has since refused to print any more letters on this topic. I know people who submitted respectful letters on this topic (with no mention of TBL etc) and they won't print the letters.

Apparently, many people are just too afraid to do anything to go against the current agenda.

While I get that this shouldn't be a war and shouldn't be negative or against anyone, on the other hand a completely nice and friendly campaign with lots of pleases and thank you's simply won't get anywhere.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 12:06:18 PM
You my friend are the clueless one. What do you know of the vaad? Where do you get your information? A coffee room of some BP transplanted shteeble? Or HH's twitter account?
Unfortunately I cannot disclose my source here.
But let's just say this - based on your posts, I've been living in lkwd longer than you.
And my knowledge isn't coffee room based. Nice try.


Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 12:10:36 PM
All we need to do now is educate and change mentality of the governing bodies. Getting the vaad on board to help with this mission would be amazing. Getting roshei yeshiva on board should be easy.
Is that a Joke? Do you think "the vaad" isn't very very aware of what's going on? (and even implied to some extent)

My earlier "assumptions" seem to be true.  You are either affiliated with them, or stragglers up clueless.

Let's start with this -  do you know who the vaad members are? And what they do by profession? (which will help you understand what they gain from being on the vaad) 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 12:15:12 PM
Is The Vaad Of Lakewood Losing Their Influence? (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/72890/is-the-vaad-of-lakewood-losing-their-influence.html)

By their own admission:

It is struggling, they say, to keep up with an expanding Orthodox population as fresh voices speak out and the economy shifts personal priorities.

“We’re at a point where the community has minds of its own and does not just follow recommendations without understanding them,’’ Vaad member Avrohom Moshe Muller said. “It puts us in a different position.’‘
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 12:17:48 PM
Do you think the yeshiva wants Brooklyn to move to Lakewood? Heck,  I remember when they would get upset that restaurants had seating!
Oy.  You seem to be terribly confused.

"the yeshiva" that didn't want seats in the restaurants was the roshie yeshiva

When people refer to "bmg" when they talk about housing/development/money, they aren't referring to R' Yeruchem, and R' Dovid.

I'll leave you with that.
You have about 20 years of catching up to do.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 12:43:29 PM
Unfortunately I cannot disclose my source here.
But let's just say this - based on your posts, I've been living in lkwd longer than you.
And my knowledge isn't coffee room based. Nice try.

Is that a Joke? Do you think "the vaad" isn't very very aware of what's going on? (and even implied to some extent)

My earlier "assumptions" seem to be true.  You are either affiliated with them, or stragglers up clueless.

Let's start with this -  do you know who the vaad members are? And what they do by profession? (which will help you understand what they gain from being on the vaad)
I have no idea when you landed here, but you clearly don't have any appreciation for the fact that these veteran askonim were chosen by and for the roshei yeshiva, and were relied upon and trusted by the entire community for everything until a few short years ago.

The way they are spoken about online and twitter as if they are some kind of evil cabal of thieves is just ludicrous.
(If you really actually do know these people personally (as you seem to be implying,) you sound even more ridiculous.)

You seem to buy into this negative mindset hook line and sinker.  You also think that AK is an evil sinister mafia boss who is secretly stealing our tax money to buy matzos for yeshivalight or some other ridiculous conspiracy.

Pathetic.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on October 30, 2016, 12:44:13 PM
I'm going to say something very unpopular.

Yidden need an affordable place where to live. They chose Lakewood and Monsey for many good reasons.

You are opposed to it? Tough luck on you. Don't be so selfish. BP infrastructure is way more strained and everyone understands that more condos are needed despite that. Everyone is living just well. The others are moving to Monsey and Lakewood due to cost of living.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 30, 2016, 12:45:57 PM
Oy.  You seem to be terribly confused.

"the yeshiva" that didn't want seats in the restaurants was the roshie yeshiva

When people refer to "bmg" when they talk about housing/development/money, they aren't referring to R' Yeruchem, and R' Dovid.

I'll leave you with that.
You have about 20 years of catching up to do.
So who and what exactly are you referring to when you repeatedly bash yeshiva?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 12:53:35 PM
I'm going to say something very unpopular.

Yidden need an affordable place where to live. They chose Lakewood and Monsey for many good reasons.

You are opposed to it? Tough luck on you. Don't be so selfish. BP infrastructure is way more strained and everyone understands that more condos are needed despite that. Everyone is living just well. The others are moving to Monsey and Lakewood due to cost of living.
Okay, I've gotten this argument.

An email I got a few weeks ago said:

I hope you understand that every Yiddisha home is literally קודש קדשים. So one lakewood house equals 2 קדשי קדושים along with their 4 minivans.
Good luck on your upcoming יום הדין.


My response:
100%. I love every yid and their kodesh kodoshim. And there is a house for every yid. But should it all be on one block? Obviously not. How about all in one neighborhood? Again of course not. All in one city? Hmm, If there was indeed no where else to live then maybe. There is so much space in the surrounding communities. Lakewood can spread out and we can have thriving attached communities in Brick, Toms River, Howell, Jackson and then when those fill we can move on to the towns beyond that.

Why must every house be in squeezed into a small area?

I've gotten dozens of emails telling me that I'm doing a tremendous mitzvah and that this will help people who spend their day stuck in traffic unable to get their heiligeh yingelach to cheder on time and unable to get to seder on time because they are sitting in traffic. I get emails from people who tell me that their parnassah is suffering tremendously from all of the traffic that makes them unable to get to their appointments and hard for people to get to their businesses.

And lastly, there are laws that were created for a reason. The world is not hefker to do whatever you want. If someone wants to move here? Kol Hakavod!! There are hundreds of houses available on the market and thousands more in the pipeline. Additionally, you can buy an existing house and if you want you can even knock it down. If your lot is zoned for duplexes you can even knock one house down and build 2 houses (yes with 4 families, 4 mini vans and 4 sedans) and hopefully none of the yingelach will get run over while playing in their busy driveway. But that is only if the law allows for it. Don't knock down the  one house and try to build a whole block of houses so that you can profit X 1,000 at the expense of all of the neighbors on the block. And then cry to the township that they have to grant you a dozen variances just so that you can squeeze a dozen houses into a tiny space so that the kids have no where to play.


The fact is that there are now 115K residents in Lakewood and it's getting more and more gridlocked and everyone's quality of life is going down. Why must we congest it more until it is just as bad as Brooklyn? Even if you want to be connected to the Lakewood community, there are now 4 other towns that you can live in and have your kids in Lakewood schools and shop in Lakewood stores etc.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on October 30, 2016, 12:56:19 PM
So who and what exactly are you referring to when you repeatedly bash yeshiva?
I don't think it's a matter of bashing Yeshiva. I think it is just that the interests of Yeshiva and the regular guy living in LW are not aligned. Yes we are makir tov to the Yeshiva, without them this town would not exist. But a what point do we say they are overusing this hakoras hatov and the town has to take the interest of all people into consedaration.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:03:10 PM
I'm going to say something very unpopular.

Yidden need an affordable place where to live. They chose Lakewood and Monsey for many good reasons.

You are opposed to it? Tough luck on you. Don't be so selfish. BP infrastructure is way more strained and everyone understands that more condos are needed despite that. Everyone is living just well. The others are moving to Monsey and Lakewood due to cost of living.
What about satmar and belz? They are fully capable of starting thier own community in a random part of NJ -  where prices would be way cheaper than LKWD. 

(It's been done before in the chasidish world)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Fish Tank on October 30, 2016, 01:07:03 PM
I have no idea when you landed here, but you clearly don't have any appreciation for the fact that these veteran askonim were chosen by and for the roshei yeshiva, and were relied upon and trusted by the entire community for everything   until a few short years ago.
Key words there.

No one is claiming the vaad was created for each members personal benefit. It has turned into that over the years. (similar what happened with the twp committee.  People ran on the ballot as a chesed,  and slowly but surely made sure to make good use out of their position)

@cbc, when did you come to lkwd?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on October 30, 2016, 01:30:54 PM
What about satmar and belz? They are fully capable of starting thier own community in a random part of NJ -  where prices would be way cheaper than LKWD. 

(It's been done before in the chasidish world)

Satmar didn't have success in recent decades. Bloomingburg is still a failure. Belz definitely can't.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on October 30, 2016, 01:35:40 PM
Satmar didn't have success in recent decades. Bloomingburg is still a failure. Belz definitely can't.
why would they try in a random place when they can come in to a fully staffed infrastructure and governemnt that doesn;t give them tzoris
anywhere else would be shades of bloomingburg toms river and roosevelt 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 01:40:40 PM
why would they try in a random place when they can come in to a fully staffed infrastructure and governemnt that doesn;t give them tzoris
anywhere else would be shades of bloomingburg toms river and roosevelt
+1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on October 30, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
Oy.  You seem to be terribly confused.

"the yeshiva" that didn't want seats in the restaurants was the roshie yeshiva

When people refer to "bmg" when they talk about housing/development/money, they aren't referring to R' Yeruchem, and R' Dovid.

I'll leave you with that.
You have about 20 years of catching up to do.
No,  I don't,  I know what's going on.  I was making a point about what the yeshiva wants .  CBC referenced the RY.  They do have influence believe it or not
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on October 30, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
I'm going to say something very unpopular.

Yidden need an affordable place where to live. They chose Lakewood and Monsey for many good reasons.

You are opposed to it? Tough luck on you. Don't be so selfish. BP infrastructure is way more strained and everyone understands that more condos are needed despite that. Everyone is living just well. The others are moving to Monsey and Lakewood due to cost of living.
In Brooklyn there's no where to expand. Here there is, but the developers would rather build in an already crowded area because they get more money for the duplex. Huge difference.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on October 30, 2016, 02:13:47 PM
Even if you want to be connected to the Lakewood community, there are now 4 other towns that you can live in and have your kids in Lakewood schools and shop in Lakewood stores etc.
Smells of NIMBY!

You've acknowledged above that there's a better way to do things. It's not only about using a different slogan or words, but actually about changing your own paradigm and attitude. Rather than fight change, it needs to be embraced and properly channeled.

The growth will come whether you like it or not. If you embrace it and channel your efforts in a positive way, EVERYONE might benefit. A developer might not care about you, or any other existing residents, but might care about their own reputation, which could be enhanced if they not only sold houses, but made the surrounding living conditions better rather than worse.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 30, 2016, 03:02:33 PM
Moving development to less dense areas does not necessarily help as much as you think it does. When they build on Cross/James/Prospect/New Hampshire/Cedar Bridge etc etc that clogs up popular arteries used to avoid hte traffic. Once that no longer avoids traffic they gain nothing by taking the longer route.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on October 30, 2016, 03:03:13 PM
Oh we have a master plan committee. And they have a subcommittee devoted to housing density. Unfortunately, almost all of the members of the committee have special interests and profit from the high density building and have every motivation to make sure that it continues.

Feel free to watch the view of their meeting here which was deeply concerning:

It is quite long. At which point is the deeply concerning part?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 30, 2016, 03:07:21 PM
Yes, a certain realtor for imperial is one of the biggest issues as he is actively recruiting thousands of NY residents to move to Lakewood. While I can't stop him from doing things legally, I can stop him from getting variances and potentially stop approval of large developments at all which can reduce his ability to continue to do what he is doing. 
Don't worry-once these people move into Lakewood and take advantage of the infrastructure built around and by the Yeshiva and its members while giving no benefit to Lakewood they will start yelling about over-development and say how the yeshiva is a bunch of parasites.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on October 30, 2016, 03:14:46 PM
Don't worry-once these people move into Lakewood and take advantage of the infrastructure built around the Yeshiva while giving nothing to Lakewood they will start yelling about over-development and say how the yeshiva is a bunch of parasites.
What do u mean by giving nothing to lakewood
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on October 30, 2016, 03:19:36 PM
What do u mean by giving nothing to lakewood
hyperbole
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on October 30, 2016, 06:57:22 PM
It is quite long. At which point is the deeply concerning part?

Does anybody flip over a table at some point?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on October 30, 2016, 07:59:44 PM
Does anybody flip over a table at some point?
Hopefully they take the hat off first
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on October 30, 2016, 10:23:29 PM
It is quite long. At which point is the deeply concerning part?
I didn't have time to watch the whole thing but min 46-49 is pretty disconcerting.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 30, 2016, 11:19:42 PM
I didn't have time to watch the whole thing but min 46-49 is pretty disconcerting.
See also 36-39 where a zoning board member goes on record saying that there should be enough homes built so that anyone who wants to live here can live here and not Chv"sh have to move to Toms River or Jackson.

See 52:00 where they make fun of the density in Monsey while in the same meeting they're doing the same to Lakewood.

Also very troubling is who is on the committee....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on October 31, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
Action at the Zoning Board tonight.

People in Westgate hired an attorney to oppose 10 houses that are proposed for the corner at the entrance to Westgate. They also had a strong showing if residents there to oppose the application. Apparently that scared the applicants lawyer. He insisted that he can't properly represent his client with the camera present since the mic will pick up conversations between him and his client and violate attorney client privilege.

Opposing counsel reminded him that the supreme court has ruled that the first amendment allows filming public meetings. A police officer was brought to ensure that the camera's were not illegally removed. The board deferred to the board attorney who obviously decided that the applicants lawyer should have the hearing pushed off to a later date since it wouldn't be fair to force him to represent a client with a SCOTUS sanctioned camera present.

I guess that's his strategy. Push it off for bogus reasons and hope that the neighbors won't be able to raise more funds for the lawyer to come back a 2nd time.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on October 31, 2016, 10:18:15 PM
Who does TBL et al endorse in the current election?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 31, 2016, 10:39:10 PM


Action at the Zoning Board tonight.

People in Westgate hired an attorney to oppose 10 houses that are proposed for the corner at the entrance to Westgate....


I guess that's his strategy. Push it off for bogus reasons and hope that the neighbors won't be able to raise more funds for the lawyer to come back a 2nd time.
It is most definitely the strategy.

Opposing counsel should be able to request no more delay tactics, and explain the huge expense on the poor abused residents of Westgate.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on November 03, 2016, 04:58:11 PM
Who does TBL et al endorse in the current election?
BUMP
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on November 03, 2016, 08:41:53 PM
Who does TBL et al endorse in the current election?
Well TBL is almost a branch of "the vaad" so I would assume with the vaad
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: kracked dude on November 03, 2016, 09:09:45 PM
Take Back Lakewood gets an honorable mention in the Asbury Park Press
 http://www.app.com/story/news/local/jackson-lakewood/lakewood/2016/11/03/lakewood-vaad-orthodox-election/93239824/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 04, 2016, 01:17:53 AM
I personally voted for Akerman.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on November 04, 2016, 01:19:18 AM
Does anybody flip over a table at some point?
No but a lot of stuff going on under the table.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 04, 2016, 02:48:09 PM
Breaking news:

At the 10/6/16 Township Committee meeting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCj7_0DlDQQ) at minute 24:38, Mayor Miller made the following announcement:

 “As far as I’m concerned – my message out there – I’m done with all the density – I’m done with any additional rezoning – as far as I’m concerned under my watch as the mayor there is not going to be any rezoning from this committee – I defer to the master plan committee – but I think the sentiment out there is that we’re at capacity. We’re really at capacity and I kind of agree with you.”

See also from minute 35:00 until the end where the committee voiced an opposition to further density in Lakewood.

At 39:30 a motion was unanimously passed instructing committeeman Akerman to send a letter to Justin Flancbaum instructing him as to how they would like the master plan be constructed. At the subsequent Township Committee Meeting, Committeeman Akerman was instructed to circulate this letter to all of the members of the Planning Board and the Master plan committee and subcommittees.

Take Back Lakewood has obtained the letter that was sent from A. Akerman which reads as follows:

From: "Albert Akerman" <aakerman@lakewoodni .gov>
Date: Oct 27, 2016 1:06 PM
Subject: Master Plan
To: "Justin Flancbaum" <justin****@*****.com>

Justin,
Although we have discussed this issue on numerous occasions over the past few weeks, I am sending this email to formally convey the township committee's opinion on density as it pertains to the master plan.

At our last committee meeting, the committee unanimously voted for me to inform you that we are against any increased density for Lakewood. As you prepare your recommendations for the committee, please ensure that the proposed master plan does not include increased density for any zone in Lakewood.

Thank you,
Albert
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Toasted on November 04, 2016, 03:07:08 PM
CONGRATS
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on November 04, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Great job!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on November 04, 2016, 03:16:15 PM
Wow. Good job!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on November 04, 2016, 04:42:41 PM
While I identify with curbing illogical increased density, at least an argument could be made on the other side of providing needed housing for yidden.

Unfortunately, where I live we have developers (many of them shomrei Shabbos) putting up buildings that aren't even suitable for Yiddishe families.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on November 04, 2016, 04:56:52 PM
Who does TBL et al endorse in the current election?
Please write in Hindy Freidman for the 1 year unexpired term for BOE. I know her very well, she is a very strong woman who is in no way a push over. If there is 1 person who can fix this system (if it's even possible at this point) it's her.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Toasted on November 04, 2016, 05:14:00 PM
Please write in Hindy Freidman for the 1 year unexpired term for BOE. I know her very well, she is a very strong woman who is in no way a push over. If there is 1 person who can fix this system (if it's even possible at this point) it's her.
DDMS?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on November 06, 2016, 07:34:12 PM
Breaking news:

At the 10/6/16 Township Committee meeting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCj7_0DlDQQ) at minute 24:38, Mayor Miller made the following announcement:

 “As far as I’m concerned – my message out there – I’m done with all the density – I’m done with any additional rezoning – as far as I’m concerned under my watch as the mayor there is not going to be any rezoning from this committee – I defer to the master plan committee – but I think the sentiment out there is that we’re at capacity. We’re really at capacity and I kind of agree with you.”

See also from minute 35:00 until the end where the committee voiced an opposition to further density in Lakewood.

At 39:30 a motion was unanimously passed instructing committeeman Akerman to send a letter to Justin Flancbaum instructing him as to how they would like the master plan be constructed. At the subsequent Township Committee Meeting, Committeeman Akerman was instructed to circulate this letter to all of the members of the Planning Board and the Master plan committee and subcommittees.

Take Back Lakewood has obtained the letter that was sent from A. Akerman which reads as follows:

From: "Albert Akerman" <aakerman@lakewoodni .gov>
Date: Oct 27, 2016 1:06 PM
Subject: Master Plan
To: "Justin Flancbaum" <justin****@*****.com>

Justin,
Although we have discussed this issue on numerous occasions over the past few weeks, I am sending this email to formally convey the township committee's opinion on density as it pertains to the master plan.

At our last committee meeting, the committee unanimously voted for me to inform you that we are against any increased density for Lakewood. As you prepare your recommendations for the committee, please ensure that the proposed master plan does not include increased density for any zone in Lakewood.

Thank you,
Albert
It's all smoke & mirrors
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 06, 2016, 09:27:07 PM
It's all smoke & mirrors
So are you one of the thousands of people that are upset about the situation but are just giving up??

If you care and want to get something changed then join me in this effort.

Come to the Township Committee meeting this Thursday night Nov 10th at 7:30.

If you are willing to speak up - great. If not, come sit in a seat and bring your friends and clap when important points are made to show support.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: rs242 on November 06, 2016, 10:55:01 PM
So are you one of the thousands of people that are upset about the situation but are just giving up??

If you care and want to get something changed then join me in this effort.

Come to the Township Committee meeting this Thursday night Nov 10th at 7:30.

If you are willing to speak up - great. If not, come sit in a seat and bring your friends and clap when important points are made to show support.
O come on there must be a better way then going to committee meetings. (I can't imagine ever doing such a thing) we don't line in the 80's.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 06, 2016, 11:09:46 PM
O come on there must be a better way then going to committee meetings. (I can't imagine ever doing such a thing) we don't line in the 80's.
This is a first phase. Build public support so that our elected officials who enact ordinances and appoint people to the planning and zoning boards are pressured to do something. If they don't see that a large group of residents are upset about this then why should they bother changing anything?

What better idea do you propose? The fact is that our legislative process occurs at the township committee meetings. While twitter and the internet and blogs can raise awareness of the problem, unfortunately for too many years people have been sitting at home tsk tsking at the problem without doing anything to solve it. Convincing our elected officials to enhance and enforce our ordinances would solve this entire problem (going forward). As ancient as it sounds, actually sauntering down to the meeting this Thurs and showing support will make a huge difference. 'But I'm not an activist', 'Its' not my type'.... Well if you're not willing to be part of the solution then you are part of the problem. You can't complain about the pproblem if you are not willing to make a mediocum of effort to assist in the solution.

One example of a faulty ordinance. In Lakewood there is an ordinance that a shul or yeshiva can be build anywhere on any lot in town. Therefore, whenever the board is about to deny an application for a new row of townhouses, the developer threatens that he'll market the land for a yeshiva instead and suddenly the neighbors and board are all too happy to approve 5 homes there. While Lakewood needs shuls and yeshivos, the fact is that shuls service a neighborhood. When no one in the neighborhood needs a shul there typically isn't one built as the sole purpose of a shul is to service people who live within walking difference. I watched a few weeks ago where the seniors supported dense housing by Cross street simply out of fear that the alternative of a school (threatened by the developer) was worse. The board's hands are tied since the township ordinance allows shuls or yeshivos anywhere. This is a tricky topic because people are afraid to go to the township on this since it will appear that they want to hurt yeshivos and shuls. BUT - I think that while neighborhoods do need shuls, yeshivos should be restricted as they almost never service the neighborhood that they're in. That would take away the constant threat since shuls are only opened when needed in the area but yeshivos can be imported by a builder from anywhere. I strongly urge the committee to consider changing the ordinance to restrict yeshivos in residential neighborhoods. It is a big problem that someone can buy  house on a quiet block and the next thing he knows a big yeshiva is built next door servicing no one from the neighborhood.

While I understand that many people are uncomfortable to get up and speak in public, all I'm asking is for bodies to come and fill up seats. If there are 100 people in the room (most meetings have 10 people) then it makes a huge statement and will convince our committeemen to act.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on November 06, 2016, 11:19:32 PM
O come on there must be a better way then going to committee meetings. (I can't imagine ever doing such a thing) we don't line in the 80's.
Thats why we have these choices in the elections this year.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on November 06, 2016, 11:20:09 PM
If there are 100 people in the room (most meetings have 10 people) then it makes a huge statement and will convince our committeemen to act.

Wishful thinking
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 06, 2016, 11:21:14 PM
Where do you think lobbyist spend all of their time and efforts? At house and senate subcommittee hearings and in meetings with congressmen and senators. Where the legislative process occurs.

All of the letters in the voice and complaints on blogs will get us nowhere if people are to unmotivated to get off their couch and come to a meeting. Many people who come to these meetings are actually quite surprised to see both how easily new ordinances can be introduced that are swept by quietly with no one the wiser ans at the same time how easy it is to publicly pressure the committeeme to take concrete action.

The meeting starts at 7:30 and lasts approx one hour,. The public portion begins right at the beginning and anyone can get up to talk about anything they want. See last weeks meeting where the entire conversation was dominated by talk of traffic and density albeit with an empty room.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 06, 2016, 11:26:15 PM
Wishful thinking
Do you live in Lakewood? Everyone seems to have an attitude of that there is no solution so let's just not even try. I refuse to consider the matter hopeless. It seems that many of Lakewood's residents agree with me but are either too scared, lazy or pessimistic to get up in public. I would hope that the residents of Lakewood hop on board this attempt to do something to change the current path instead of just grumbling about it at home.

Thats why we have these choices in the elections this year.
The choice in Lakewood is a non brainer this year.

Albert Akerman is one of the only members on the committee actually willing to do something about this but he is only one vote out of 5.

In future years elections (2017 - Coles and Delia  2018 M&M) we can have a real assessment of whether the committeeman who have been in office for the past 13 years actually did anything to address this now that it is being brought to the forefront.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on November 06, 2016, 11:32:23 PM
Do you live in Lakewood? Everyone seems to have an attitude of that there is no solution so let's just not even try. I refuse to consider the matter hopeless. It seems that many of Lakewood's residents agree with me but are either too scared, lazy or pessimistic to get up in public. I would hope that the residents of Lakewood hop on board this attempt to do something to change the current path instead of just grumbling about it at home.
The choice in Lakewood is a non brainer this year.

Albert Akerman is one of the only members on the committee actually willing to do something about this but he is only one vote out of 5.

In future years elections (2017 - Coles and Delia  2018 M&M) we can have a real assessment of whether the committeeman who have been in office for the past 13 years actually did anything to address this now that it is being brought to the forefront.
Wishful thinking is that 100 people at a meeting will conince them to act. The only thing which will convince them is if they are afraid to lose their position. By making enough of a stink ALL OVER THE PLACE it can do that. People at meeting will not. Letters to the Voice if frequent enough can convince them and the editor that it is a hot button topic. If it is that will cause there to be more write ups about it and for questions to be asked.

What I meant about election choices is that this attitude is what makes it that we have the choices we do for pres.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 06, 2016, 11:41:04 PM
Wishful thinking is that 100 people at a meeting will conince them to act. The only thing which will convince them is if they are afraid to lose their position. By making enough of a stink ALL OVER THE PLACE it can do that. People at meeting will not. Letters to the Voice if frequent enough can convince them and the editor that it is a hot button topic. If it is that will cause there to be more write ups about it and for questions to be asked.

What I meant about election choices is that this attitude is what makes it that we have the choices we do for pres.
I agree about making noise in the voice etc and I have been working on that but at a certain point they start censoring letters.

The Lakewood scoop won't touch this with a 10 foot pole and while hefkervelt is great, it is not widely read enough to create a full community tumult. Ads cost money (did I hear you offer to help out?) and in Lakewood there are so many different publications so it's hard to catch everyone's eye with just 1-2 ads.

A public (video recorded) meeting is the best place to:
A) Ask questions directly to the committeemen faces and demand answers
B) An opportunity to create newsworthy events. The voice and shopper both reported this past week precisely on ----- the noise that was made at the meetings last week.
C) A place to publicly demand that certain changes be made.

Am I naive enough to believe that just asking for something and getting a vague promise means that all is now well with the world and the problem is solved? NO. However is it the best place to start. Watching them squirm up there trying to answer the valid questions of the public is priceless. :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on November 07, 2016, 06:09:56 AM
I agree about making noise in the voice etc and I have been working on that but at a certain point they start censoring letters.

The Lakewood scoop won't touch this with a 10 foot pole and while hefkervelt is great, it is not widely read enough to create a full community tumult. Ads cost money (did I hear you offer to help out?) and in Lakewood there are so many different publications so it's hard to catch everyone's eye with just 1-2 ads.

A public (video recorded) meeting is the best place to:
A) Ask questions directly to the committeemen faces and demand answers
B) An opportunity to create newsworthy events. The voice and shopper both reported this past week precisely on ----- the noise that was made at the meetings last week.
C) A place to publicly demand that certain changes be made.

Am I naive enough to believe that just asking for something and getting a vague promise means that all is now well with the world and the problem is solved? NO. However is it the best place to start. Watching them squirm up there trying to answer the valid questions of the public is priceless. :)
I admire your efforts. Kol Hakovod.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on November 08, 2016, 01:01:19 PM


Albert Akerman is one of the only members on the committee actually willing to do something about this but he is only one vote out of 5.


In future years elections (2017 - Coles and Delia  2018 M&M) we can have a real assessment of whether the committeeman who have been in office for the past 13 years actually did anything to address this now that it is being brought to the forefront.
why on earth is akerman a good choice, he's a real estate broker for gods sake

talk about a conflict of interest ::)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on November 08, 2016, 01:03:27 PM
Wishful thinking is that 100 people at a meeting will conince them to act. The only thing which will convince them is if they are afraid to lose their position. By making enough of a stink ALL OVER THE PLACE it can do that. People at meeting will not. Letters to the Voice if frequent enough can convince them and the editor that it is a hot button topic. If it is that will cause there to be more write ups about it and for questions to be asked.

What I meant about election choices is that this attitude is what makes it that we have the choices we do for pres.
what are the choices, I'm clueless as to the pro's & cons of the local candidates running
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 08, 2016, 01:10:50 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/jackson-lakewood/lakewood/2016/10/27/lakewood-election-2016-committee-school-board/92764894/

His opponent in the Nov. 8 election, Democratic newcomer Mordecai Gross, 38, doesn't disagree that growth poses a major challenge for Lakewood, but he says he's not in favor of any kind of building moratorium, as some residents have called for.

“It's very, very complicated. It's very nice to say, 'Let's slow things down,'" said Gross, a corporate attorney. "There are people who want to move to Lakewood. It's a challenge."

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on November 08, 2016, 01:17:39 PM
Random Question: at these meetings when people go up to speak they ask you to state your name & address,

is it ok to make up my name & address?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 08, 2016, 01:25:04 PM
Random Question: at these meetings when people go up to speak they ask you to state your name & address,

is it ok to make up my name & address?
I'd imagine it's fine (don't quote me on that). It's just for them to record in their minutes.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on November 08, 2016, 01:43:38 PM
Random Question: at these meetings when people go up to speak they ask you to state your name & address,

is it ok to make up my name & address?
You're worried about a FR? ;)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on November 08, 2016, 02:24:15 PM
You're worried about a FR? ;)
Just making sure its not a felony
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on November 08, 2016, 02:27:47 PM
Just making sure its not a felony
You can share a cell with the guy who voted for Dan, and shared it. :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Mordechai_Gross on November 08, 2016, 03:16:27 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/jackson-lakewood/lakewood/2016/10/27/lakewood-election-2016-committee-school-board/92764894/

His opponent in the Nov. 8 election, Democratic newcomer Mordecai Gross, 38, doesn't disagree that growth poses a major challenge for Lakewood, but he says he's not in favor of any kind of building moratorium, as some residents have called for.

“It's very, very complicated. It's very nice to say, 'Let's slow things down,'" said Gross, a corporate attorney. "There are people who want to move to Lakewood. It's a challenge."


I'm not sure if this is or isn't the same Mordechai Gross who was heavily involved in ramming through the Oak Street Core mess

He is not the same " Mordechai Gross who was heavily involved in ramming through the Oak Street Core mess"

I am he.

And the APP only quoted part of what I said.

I said complex problems don't always have simple solutions.  You have to figure out how to responsibly manage different people's demands, rights, and expectations.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 08, 2016, 03:32:05 PM
He is not the same " Mordechai Gross who was heavily involved in ramming through the Oak Street Core mess"

I am he.

And the APP only quoted part of what I said.

I said complex problems don't always have simple solutions.  You have to figure out how to responsibly manage different people's demands, rights, and expectations.
My apologies for mixing you two up. Either way, I must have missed your campaign ad or article or anything so all I  (or anyone) had to go on was whatever the APP wrote. 

Edit: I've now gone back and deleted the sentence that I wrote which was incorrect.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on November 08, 2016, 03:45:29 PM
Sorry, sorry. The fact is that they are the ones who sent in M&M and have been the proponents of the claim that our town needs to grow to 225K residents by 2030.
I agree and I'm not saying that they are the bad ones and you're right, I shouldn't mention them at all to avoid such appearance.


Yes, a certain realtor for imperial is one of the biggest issues as he is actively recruiting thousands of NY residents to move to Lakewood. While I can't stop him from doing things legally, I can stop him from getting variances and potentially stop approval of large developments at all which can reduce his ability to continue to do what he is doing.

prob the same one thats begging stores to come fill all the new plazas promising them massive sales only for them to invest 100's of thousands for naught. I personally know of some stores that came and are not having hatzlocha.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 08, 2016, 05:12:03 PM
See below. Please share this and please attend.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on November 08, 2016, 05:18:20 PM
He is not the same " Mordechai Gross who was heavily involved in ramming through the Oak Street Core mess"

I am he.

And the APP only quoted part of what I said.

I said complex problems don't always have simple solutions.  You have to figure out how to responsibly manage different people's demands, rights, and expectations.
And pray tell me, what are your solutions?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 08, 2016, 05:35:12 PM
He is not the same " Mordechai Gross who was heavily involved in ramming through the Oak Street Core mess"

I am he.

And the APP only quoted part of what I said.

I said complex problems don't always have simple solutions.  You have to figure out how to responsibly manage different people's demands, rights, and expectations.
Without getting into a big back and forth with you (considering that exit polls on CNN and Fox are currently tilting heavily in Akerman's favor), I don't think that there should be a demand, right or expectation to repeatedly down zone and spot zone, vacate streets, grant dozens of variances and fail to plan for the future of Lakewood in a way that is crippling our town only to help developers squeeze the maximum profit from their properties.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 10, 2016, 05:38:20 PM
Reminder - Township Committee meeting tonight 7:30 at 231 3rd Street.

Please come and join the community - if for nothing else come for comedic entertainment to watch our elected officials struggle to explain how we got into this mess and what they will do to fix it.



Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 12, 2016, 11:53:47 PM
Wow! Exciting meeting last Thursday night!!



Lots of action and the committee is definitely feeling the heat. Kudos to Committeeman De'lia and Coles for speaking up. There were approx 50-60 seniors there and 20 frum guys. I was slightly disappointed that not more than 20 frum guys cared enough to do something but apparently I didn't get the word out well enough and many people think that the situation is hopeless and have unfortunately give up. It is not hopeless and we have gotten very far in just one month.

Take a look at the zoning Board agenda for this Monday night. Packed with dozens and dozens of downzoning and variances. Crazy stuff!! Unfortunately, without intervention almost all of this stuff gets approved! It's madness!!
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/meeting-dates-times-and-agendas.html

In other news, they're trying to get rid of the camera and mic......
I put on my lawyer hat and helped him out with a legal response...
http://politicsoc.com/2016/11/lakewood-cave-developers-restrict-transparency-zoning-board-meetings/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 13, 2016, 12:27:35 AM
If you were totally above board and clean, (no negativity), you could even reach out to the Yated for publicity... (Shmuel berinboum should be a big ally imho) etc.
He gave an excellent speech at minute 48

Excellent article from him here http://matzav.com/are-large-frum-communities-and-attention-to-quality-of-life-issues-contradictory/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on November 13, 2016, 12:57:54 AM
I think that it will be worth it for you/him to look into some govt. transparency organization to take the case to possibly sue the zoning board pro bono. I would imagine you would be able to find that.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 13, 2016, 07:26:17 AM
The heat is definitely on
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Malachi on November 13, 2016, 09:07:26 AM
Isn't his name Avrohom Birnbaum ? I think RShmuel Was the Rosh Yeshiva..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 13, 2016, 09:24:49 AM
Isn't his name Avrohom Birnbaum ? I think RShmuel Was the Rosh Yeshiva..
Yes
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Toasted on November 13, 2016, 09:24:56 AM
The heat is definitely on
Big time. Who would dream you'll have Moishe Neiman come out publicly against irresponsible growth? See page 84 in the voice.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 13, 2016, 09:26:32 AM
Can we file a law suit to get a judge to instruct the zoning/planning boards/penzer to not interfere with first amendment activist?


I mean their attorney client privilege at the podium argument is sooo corrupt and pathetic. If penzer made that argument in my court I would lock him up for contempt and making mockery of the court.
The fact that the board went with this is corrupt and diabolical.

Throw the bums out!!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 14, 2016, 11:16:40 PM
The board wisely decided to back off of the camera issue but embarrassed themselves in the process.

Before the meeting, word was out that the game is over so 7 out of 11 applications asked for their application to be pushed off.

A big crowd came to the meeting tonight and got up one after another after another to oppose and got the applications denied. Only 1 application was approved tonight. Someone came and help up a wonderful sign - see pics below.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on November 15, 2016, 12:29:00 AM



Hershel came up to speak with a stack of envelopes. He asked the board members how much they get paid off and offered to beat it with even more money!
What a loser

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 15, 2016, 06:54:17 AM
The board wisely decided to back off of the camera issue but embarrassed themselves in the process.

Before the meeting, word was out that the game is over so 7 out of 11 applications asked for their application to be pushed off.

A big crowd came to the meeting tonight and got up one after another after another to oppose and got the applications denied. Only 1 application was approved tonight. Someone came and help up a wonderful sign - see pics below.

Hershel came up to speak with a stack of envelopes. He asked the board members how much they get paid off and offered to beat it with even more money! :)


They will continue to stall until there are only a handful of people at the meeting. Then they will quickly squeeze in a bunch of big approvals....

It is imperative that every minute of these meeting is recorded going forward. This way when the next egregious approval is recorded, it can be replayed in a continuous loop on the big screens @cederbridge and new Hampshire.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on November 15, 2016, 08:32:06 AM
Gotta give a round of applause to TBL.
Everyone is constantly telling him that he can't get things done but over the past few months he has accomplished more for Lakewood residents than the anyone else in this town (well at least politically). .

I know with my schedule I'll probably won't make it to more than 1 meeting.
But if you need to fundraise to hire a lawyer or for something important, don't be afraid to ask.

Start a gofundme, I know I would give a few bucks, and surely some others would after seeing the progress you've made.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 08:55:47 AM
Gotta give a round of applause to TBL.
Everyone is constantly telling him that he can't get things done but over the past few months he has accomplished more for Lakewood residents than the anyone else in this town (well at least politically). .

I know with my schedule I'll probably won't make it to more than 1 meeting.
But if you need to fundraise to hire a lawyer or for something important, don't be afraid to ask.

Start a gofundme, I know I would give a few bucks, and surely some others would after seeing the progress you've made.
Thank you. Yes BH we have accomplished a lot in a little over a month. When developers are starting to change the applications that they submit because they know they will be rejected we know we have really come a long way.

We have an open communication channel with all of the township committee members, and we are actively pursuing things behind closed doors to stop this at a larger level instead of having to fight every application at the meeting.

We actually did start a fundraiser page but I haven't been pushing it at all and it really is time to start. I have been self-funding this until now, but to reach out on a grander scale we need to get a lawyer involved and we need to communicate better to the community so that people know what we have done and how they can help. We will be making a big push to get a lot of people to come to the December 1st meeting.

As recent as yesterday a committeeman expressed that he thinks this is a fringe movement and that most of Lakewood does not have similar concerns.  Head in the sand much? His proof was that only 20 Frum guys were at the meeting last week along with 50 seniors.  I know 100 percent that there are thousands of people who are upset about this and we need to both inform them and motivate them to come to the December 1st meeting. Many of them simply think it is a lost cause when in reality it is not. I would also love to hire a lawyer to come down and block all of the large applications in addition to suing the board for routinely engaging in illegal spot zoning. We are actively working on getting members of the board changed to more moderate members.

Most importantly we are trying to keep the campaign positive and clean and not to harp on the past but focus on saving the future.
I am absolutely not doing this for the money in any which way and that is why I have been reluctant to ask people for money until now, but I really want to take this to the next level now.

https://www.youcaring.com/take-back-lakewood-667343
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 09:11:58 AM
I also want to make another point. I am moderate and reasonable. I am not here to stop every single house when one guy wants to subdivide and has a couple of variances and the neighbors don't mind. I'm mainly concerned with a bigger scale. With building 30 houses on three lots, with knocking down a house and turning it into a cul-de-sac etc.

 I am not trying to stop all future housing in Lakewood.  I just want things being done with sechel and planning, and not sticking 50 houses here and there and there and suddenly a critical artery in Lakewood  becomes gridlocked.

We need a zoning board that can stand up for Lakewood and say no when the developers over-reach in their applications.

We need to stop approving these behemoth 500 unit applications marketed to New York residents. Yes I know that there is a shortage of housing in New York and I know that New York is crowded etc. We do not need to turn Lakewood into Brooklyn. Our frastructure simply cannot handle it.

There are people in Lakewood who think that there is nothing wrong with turning Lakewood into Brooklyn, and we need to speak up to stop that from happening.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on November 15, 2016, 09:21:26 AM
I also want to make another point. I am moderate and reasonable. I am not here to stop every single house when one guy wants to subdivide and has a couple of variances and the neighbors don't mind. I'm mainly concerned with a bigger scale. With building 30 houses on three lots, with knocking down a house and turning it into a cul-de-sac etc.

 I am not trying to stop all future housing in Lakewood.  I just want things being done with sechel and planning, and not sticking 50 houses here and there and there and suddenly a critical artery in Lakewood  becomes gridlocked.

We need a zoning board that can stand up for Lakewood and say no when the developers over-reach in their applications.

We need to stop approving these behemoth 500 unit applications marketed to New York residents. Yes I know that there is a shortage of housing in New York and I know that New York is crowded etc. We do not need to turn Lakewood into Brooklyn. Our frastructure simply cannot handle it.

There are people in Lakewood who think that there is nothing wrong with turning Lakewood into Brooklyn, and we need to speak up to stop that from happening.
You're only 5 years too late, bro. Move to Cleveland or Fallsburg.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 09:28:26 AM
You're only 5 years too late, bro. Move to Cleveland or Fallsburg.
Like I keep telling people, the past is the past. That does not mean we should throw up our hands and give up on the future. I am well aware that there are thousands of houses approved that were not yet built. There is nothing that I can do about that . I am able to stop the thousands of houses that they are trying to get approval for in the coming year.

This past summer Fallsburg actually passed a one-year moratorium on approval of any project larger than 5 units.

http://www.recordonline.com/news/20160627/fallsburg-board-approves-one-year-building-moratorium

I would love to see the zoning board restricted from hearing any appeals for houses larger than 5 units.

If you look into the laws behind a zoning board, every application at a zoning board is conceptually supposed to be denied unless there is a valid reason to approve it based on a hardship or unique circumstances. The law specifically states that trying to make more money from the property is not a valid reason for a zoning change. While we need a zoning board for a poor guy who has a triangle shape property and wants to build a few feet too close to the property line, we should not have any Board hearing applications to rezone an area to build 50 houses.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on November 15, 2016, 09:36:45 AM
Like I keep telling people, the past is the past. That does not mean we should throw up our hands and give up on the future. I am well aware that there are thousands of houses approved that were not yet built. There is nothing that I can do about that . I am able to stop the thousands of houses that they are trying to get approval for in the coming year.

This past summer Fallsburg actually passed a one-year moratorium on approval of any project larger than 5 units.

http://www.recordonline.com/news/20160627/fallsburg-board-approves-one-year-building-moratorium (http://www.recordonline.com/news/20160627/fallsburg-board-approves-one-year-building-moratorium)

I would love to see the zoning board restricted from hearing any appeals for houses larger than 5 units.

If you look into the laws behind a zoning board, every application at a zoning board is conceptually supposed to be denied unless there is a valid reason to approve it based on a hardship or unique circumstances. The law specifically states that trying to make more money from the property is not a valid reason for a zoning change. While we need a zoning board for a poor guy who has a triangle shape property and wants to build a few feet too close to the property line, we should not have any Board hearing applications to rezone an area to build 50 houses.
While you are at it they should make a moratorium on subdivisions below xx% of full zoning and xx% of setbacks.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Iz on November 15, 2016, 09:45:42 AM
!חזק ואמץ
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on November 15, 2016, 09:54:43 AM

As recent as yesterday a committeeman expressed that he thinks this is a fringe movement and that most of Lakewood does not have similar concerns.  Head in the sand much? His proof was that only 20 Frum guys were at the meeting last week along with 50 seniors.  I know 100 percent that there are thousands of people who are upset about this and we need to both inform them and motivate them to come to the December 1st meeting. Many of them simply think it is a lost cause when in reality it is not. I would also love to hire a lawyer to come down and block all of the large applications in addition to suing the board for routinely engaging in illegal spot zoning. We are actively working on getting members of the board changed to more moderate members.

thats ridiculous and they know it but very few people have time to come night after night to prove it
and we have kids to get into schools
the only way to really show them is to vote them out and that ain't happening so fast either
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 09:55:54 AM
While you are at it they should make a moratorium on subdivisions below xx% of full zoning and xx% of setbacks.
  Yes, that is another thing on my agenda.
The township likes to claim that they are powerless, but in reality they can pass ordinances that limit the power of the board to grant crazy variances.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 10:00:20 AM
thats ridiculous and they know it but very few people have time to come night after night to prove it
and we have kids to get into schools
the only way to really show them is to vote them out and that ain't happening so fast either
  I agree that we shouldn't need to have to come down to the meeting to get them to do their jobs, but the reality is that we need to motivate them to act by showing that everyone is behind this.

If we got them to replace two members on the board and if we get the board members to be more moderate, then we will have accomplished a ton and we won't need to come down to every meeting to forcibly speak up.

I would love to get the frum Seniors involved as they are retired, have more time on their hands in the evening, and have no jobs in the community.

I have gotten numerous emails from people telling me they are afraid to get involved because of getting their kids into school and their jobs in the community. I think that the fear is not warranted as if hundreds of people speak up at once they can not stop us. I've told people if you are not comfortable speaking up just come and sit in a seat and clap when others do speak up.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on November 15, 2016, 10:58:04 AM
https://www.youcaring.com/take-back-lakewood-667343

Donated and hope others do the same.
Donate $5 and you get the right to complain :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 12:34:16 PM
Another meeting, some more ridiculous applications. I've listed below 3 large scale application with numerous variances that need to be denied. This can't continue to go on.

Let developers come back with applications with less density and no variances. It's time to take a stand. Enough is enough.

Prospect/Cross and James is a disaster. More and more building is going up in the area and it can not handle 32 lots on this busy busy corner of Prospect and Massachusetts.

Tonight, Nov 15 at 6:00 PM
 
SD 2163 ARM Developers, LLC Prospect Street Block 445, Lots 17.01-17.12 & 18 (SW corner of Prospect and Mass.)
Subdivision to create thirty two lots (duplexes) and a cul de sac That's 64 families and 128 cars!!!!

 ~ Variances include:
1) Minimum Front Yard Setback - Where 25 feet is required they want a smaller setback
2) Minimum Rear Yard Setback - Where 15 feet is required they a smaller setback
 

SD 2144 Chaim Abadi – 11/1 Shady Lane Drive Block 12.01, Lots 7 & 11 (Corner of Miller and Shady Lane)
 Subdivision to create three lots

~ Variances include:
1: Lot size - Where the minimum lot size is 12,000 sqft they want 10,000 SQFT
2: Lot width - Where required width is 90 feet, they want 77 ft on one lot and 69 on another.
3: Side yard setback - Where required side yard setback is 10 feet they want 3.5 feet.
4: Combined side yard setback - Where 25 feet is required they want only 20 feet.
5: Parking - Where 4 parking spots per house are required, the proposed driveways appear to only fit 3

SD 2169 Locust Holdings, LLC Evergreen Boulevard Block 1086, Lots 9-14
Preliminary and Final Major Subdivision to create twenty lots \. Subdividing 6 lots into 20 lots!!
20 houses (10 duplexes), 40 families and 80 cars!!


The applicant’s engineer has requested that new Lot 14. 03 will be proposed as an unbuildable lot. Therefore,
the Board would need to grant the following variances required for a vacant lotin the B-5A Zone:
 Minimum Lot Area - The proposed area would be 2,499.99 square feet,
whereas two {2) acres are required.
0 Minimum Lot Width - The proposed width would be twenty-five feet (259,
whereas two hundred feet (2009 is required.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on November 15, 2016, 12:54:46 PM
Donated and hope others do the same.
Donate $5 and you get the right to complain :)
Donated. will spread the word. Keep it up!!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: syp5 on November 15, 2016, 02:57:56 PM
Thanks for your work! I donated.

The middle of the 3  (SD 2144) doesn't look like such an unreasonable request...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 03:04:46 PM
Thanks for your work! I donated.

The middle of the 3  (SD 2144) doesn't look like such an unreasonable request...
It's not terrible because it's only 3 houses. On the other hand, 3 houses means a minimum of 6 families and approx 12 cars. Nowadays, many many new houses have 2 rentable basements and a rentable attic. Conceivably, a house could easily have 4 families meaning this project could have 12 families and up to 24 cars.

Maybe yes and maybe no, but who knows. It also shows you how all ordinances are exploited through variance. If they would just build 2 houses and not ask for any variances it would be approved.  Squeezing in another one where there is no room leads to discussions that you'll only hear in Lakewood at the planning board around where are you going to fit an AC unit if there's only 3.5 feet between the houses.....

Variances are supposed to be the exception not the norm.

At the end of the day, my main focus is on the 10, 20 , 30 unit projects.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on November 15, 2016, 03:15:30 PM
It's not terrible becuase it's only 3 houses. On the other hand, 3 houses means a minimum of 6 families and approx 12 cars. Nowadays, many many new houses have 2 rentable basements and a rentable attic. Conceivably, a house could easily have 4 families meaning this project could have 12 families and up to 24 cars.

Maybe yes and maybe no, but who know. It also shows you how all ordinances are exploited through variance. If they would just build 2 houses and not ask for any variances it would be approved.  Squeezing in another one where there is no room leads to discussions that you'll only hear in Lakewood at the planning board around where are you going to fit an AC unit if there's only 3.5 feet between the houses.....

Variances are supposed to be the exception not the norm.

At the end of the day, my main focus is on the 10, 20 , 30 unit projects.
I applaud your work and appreciate it. I am however scared that these developers will come after you. You are destroying ( rightfully so) their plans. Some of these guys can be dangerous - watch out.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 15, 2016, 03:49:11 PM
I applaud your work and appreciate it. I am however scared that these developers will come after you. You are destroying ( rightfully so) their plans. Some of these guys can be dangerous - watch out.
Yes I realize. I'll point out that my objective is not to ruin anyone's business. My intention is to make them comply with our ordinances.

Yes that will mean that they will only get regular profit and not obscene profits, but they have no right to trample over everyone else by overreaching and spot zoning and variances.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 15, 2016, 09:56:04 PM
I applaud your work and appreciate it. I am however scared that these developers will come after you. You are destroying ( rightfully so) their plans. Some of these guys can be dangerous - watch out.
Oh please really? What they gonna do, kneecap him?

Don't forget, these developers for the most part work for investors who are "finer mentchen"- wouldn't want to get caught up in anything dirty..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on November 15, 2016, 09:59:06 PM
Oh please really? What they gonna do, kneecap him?

Don't forget, these developers for the most part work for investors who are "finer mentchen"- wouldn't want to get caught up in anything dirty..
Not in the lakewood I know
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on November 16, 2016, 01:00:56 AM
I'm friends with one of the big developers.
I asked him what he's gonna do when/if they crackdown on the developments.
He answered "BH I can still build in Lakewood. When the time comes to build out of Lakewood, it comes, but right now I'm fine."

Basically Lakewood is the low hanging fruit so he'd be a fool to not try to make an easy legal parnassah. Which reminds of what Neiman(?) said in the meeting (minute 48), that the developers are just doing what the township allows them to do. But we have appointed members of government to look out for for our interests to make sure that we are being taken care of. In other words - don't hate the player, hate the game.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JTZ on November 16, 2016, 06:31:13 AM
Oh please really? What they gonna do, kneecap him?
I hear the weapon of choice is a cattle prod.  :P
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: syp5 on November 16, 2016, 11:46:10 AM
SD 2163 ARM Developers, LLC Prospect Street Block 445, Lots 17.01-17.12 & 18 (SW corner of Prospect and Mass.)
Subdivision to create thirty two lots (duplexes) and a cul de sac That's 64 families and 128 cars!!!!

 ~ Variances include:
1) Minimum Front Yard Setback - Where 25 feet is required they want a smaller setback
2) Minimum Rear Yard Setback - Where 15 feet is required they a smaller setback


They are claiming its already approved for 29 units.... asking for 1 more unit and a Shul.

Is this true?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 16, 2016, 11:48:51 AM
SD 2163 ARM Developers, LLC Prospect Street Block 445, Lots 17.01-17.12 & 18 (SW corner of Prospect and Mass.)
Subdivision to create thirty two lots (duplexes) and a cul de sac That's 64 families and 128 cars!!!!

 ~ Variances include:
1) Minimum Front Yard Setback - Where 25 feet is required they want a smaller setback
2) Minimum Rear Yard Setback - Where 15 feet is required they a smaller setback


They are claiming its already approved for 29 units.... asking for 1 more unit and a Shul.

Is this true?
Yes - I've now heard that. The addition was approved last night but the bulk of the damage had already been done when the original approval was done.  Also, I'm pretty sure that no sidewalks or curbing will be put in there.....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: syp5 on November 16, 2016, 11:51:01 AM
how long ago did they get the original approvals? What was it originally zoned for? Outrageous if they don't need curb/sidewalks...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 16, 2016, 12:17:49 PM
how long ago did they get the original approvals? What was it originally zoned for? Outrageous if they don't need curb/sidewalks...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_7JAaj5655TU9CU1RtQlREZzA

SD 1509 and SD2021

Email the board admin Amorris@lakewoodnj.gov and ask her for Terry's review letter for those 2 applications.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on November 16, 2016, 05:02:05 PM
Google Maps shows they already cleared and leveled the whole area, so it made sense it was almost fully approved.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on November 16, 2016, 07:50:47 PM
Google Maps shows they already cleared and leveled the whole area, so it made sense it was almost fully approved.
Prospect and Massachusetts was cleared for awhile. No clue who'd want to live there with high point across the street thou.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 16, 2016, 08:50:21 PM
 What happened there was the previous approval was for two different developers who each owned half of the area and they were approved by the planning board but then they needed to get approval from the county.

The county denied their application so they therefore were not able to go forward and build. When they came back before the board they obviously waved their previous approval in the boards face to show that of course the board should approve their new applications which the county may be happier with but in reality the board could have easily decided to do to teshuva and deny them even though they previously approved an application in that spot.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 25, 2016, 12:35:14 AM
See our ad on page 261 in The Voice of Lakewood.

We've gotten a bunch of generous donations (https://www.youcaring.com/take-back-lakewood-667343).

There was a lot of discussion on this in the Voice this week. There's an interview with the Chairman of the zoning board who says that it's the fault of the planning board and the township committee. The problem is that Township Committee says it's the zoning and planning boards fault and the planning board says it's the township committee and zoning boards fault.  :o

In the news section they mention that a moratorium is not legal. We're not proposing that. We're simply saying that we need to stop variances and spot-zoning. That is most definitely. On the contrary, spot zoning is illegal unless it fulfills many criteria including being beneficial to the neighborhood!! Financial gain is not a reason that the board members are supposed to consider when determining if they should change the zoning from single family on an acre to townhouses every few feet....

The township committee seems to be dragging their feet on this - when they should be the ones championing this on their own. The planning and zoning boards have taken a strong swing and are barely approving anything now. Most applicants are withdrawing their applications to redraw them before getting their denials.

A township committeeman was approached by a resident with a zoning concern and was told to speak to takebacklakewood who may be able to help.
A lawyer helping a client told them to speak to takebacklakewood who may be able to help them out.

The thing is - we shouldn't need to be twisting the committee's arm to do something. THEY should be actively looking to see how they can fix this...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on November 26, 2016, 10:39:06 PM
One of the things in the voice interview was terribly wrong. There is a notion that the township cannot and should not change zoning, because investors and property owners will lose money.
 So what? Investors could have for saw this potential change, due to lack of infrastructure, and it should have been baked into their risk model.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on November 26, 2016, 10:50:34 PM
One of the things in the voice interview was terribly wrong. There is a notion that the township cannot and should not change zoning, because investors and property owners will lose money.
 So what? Investors could have for saw this potential change, due to lack of infrastructure, and it should have been baked into their risk model.

You talking about the Halberstam interview?
No kidding he's against the movement.

#DrainTheSwamp
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 27, 2016, 02:00:23 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Explaining-misconceptions
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on November 27, 2016, 02:43:33 PM
Another huge blunder which was pointed out in a letter this week was how Neiman seemed to say that the burden of proof is on the local residents as to why an application should be denied. Which is absurd. How the chairman of committee could get this wrong is astounding.
ETA
@takebacklakewood you got to call him out on that publicly.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on November 27, 2016, 03:36:51 PM
Another huge blunder which was pointed out in a letter this week was how Neiman seemed to say that the burden of proof is on the local residents as to why an application should be denied. Which is absurd. How the chairman of committee could get this wrong is astounding.
ETA
@takebacklakewood you got to call him out on that publicly.
Agreed - I'll update the post with that soon.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 01, 2016, 12:30:03 PM
IMPORTANT - TWP Committee meeting tonight at 7:30. PLEASE attend and bring along a few friends too. Tonight we will take a strong stand!!!

Please spread the word.

We also have some fun planned for the wild zoning board meeting Monday Dec 5th. Stay tuned for more details...

There is a wild zoning board meeting scheduled for Monday Dec 5th 7:00 PM at 231 3rd St. (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Meeting-Monday-Dec-5th-at-7-00/) The applications total an astounding 228 houses, 456 families and 912 cars!! See meeting details on our new post.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 01, 2016, 03:23:37 PM
Meh, all the big ones at the 12-9 meeting  will be pushed off
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 01, 2016, 04:27:37 PM
Meh, all the big ones at the 12-9 meeting  will be pushed off
The Westgate one already was once.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 01, 2016, 05:36:37 PM
Check out Akerman's interview in the Voice- he talks about the whole situation. Also, there's a long letter in the Voice about basements, which is also very much related.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 01, 2016, 05:47:10 PM
Remember - if you don't come tonight and join in the effort then you lose your right to complain from now on!! :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 01, 2016, 05:48:37 PM
Check out Akerman's interview in the Voice- he talks about the whole situation. Also, there's a long letter in the Voice about basements, which is also very much related.
Yes. To all those who insist that we need to provide housing opportunities - 2 letter address that.

1) Jackson
2) The housing is being priced and sold to NY residents...

There are currently too many houses on the market which created a huge basement problem...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on December 01, 2016, 05:55:11 PM
Yes. To all those who insist that we need to provide housing opportunities - 2 letter address that.

1) Jackson
2) The housing is being priced and sold to NY residents...

There are currently too many houses on the market which created a huge basement problem...
but basement problems should bring the prices down, no?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on December 01, 2016, 05:58:02 PM
but basement problems should bring the prices down, no?
No. Cuz no one can afford the mortgage then. At this point its a crisis
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 01, 2016, 06:05:49 PM
No. Cuz no one can afford the mortgage then. At this point its a crisis
I don't understand what you're saying. When basements are very expensive, it's a push for people to buy because they save on high rent and get high rent from their basement to pay for the mortgage, when rent is low there is are much less people looking to buy because it's cheaper to rent.
ETA: with less buyers prices should go down.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on December 01, 2016, 06:09:03 PM
I don't understand what you're saying. When basements are very expensive, it's a push for people to buy because they save on high rent and get high rent from their basement to pay for the mortgage, when rent is low there is are much less people looking to buy because it's cheaper to rent.
ETA: with less buyers prices should go down.
people buy houses and cant afford the mortgage without renting the basement
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on December 01, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
No. Cuz no one can afford the mortgage then. At this point its a crisis
if no-one can afford the mortgage then the builders will stop building and people will stop buying... no?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 01, 2016, 06:15:48 PM
people buy houses and cant afford the mortgage without renting the basement
That's a different problem, I never argued on that
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: bubkiz on December 01, 2016, 06:21:49 PM
if no-one can afford the mortgage then the builders will stop building and people will stop buying... no?
Or will market to NYers
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 01, 2016, 06:23:23 PM
Or will market to NYers
Bingo
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on December 01, 2016, 07:22:24 PM
I don't understand what you're saying. When basements are very expensive, it's a push for people to buy because they save on high rent and get high rent from their basement to pay for the mortgage, when rent is low there is are much less people looking to buy because it's cheaper to rent.
ETA: with less buyers prices should go down.
I don't think were arguing. All I am saying, is that there is already way too many basements, so until it calms down, the crisis is here to stay.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 01, 2016, 07:24:10 PM
Plus rates are jumping.
I have no idea how builders think 580k+ housing will be affordable to normal Lakewood families after basement prices adjust to reflect reality.


Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 12:18:43 PM
Or will market to NYers
Excuse me for intruding as an outsider (and NYer), is there anything inherently wrong in marketing to NYers?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 02, 2016, 12:43:24 PM
Excuse me for intruding as an outsider (and NYer), is there anything inherently wrong in marketing to NYers?

The issue is that they're (ie. developers, crooked politicians) claiming that there's not enough housing for residents and that building growth is necessary. With that context in mind, approving variances that harm existing residents just so developers can go ahead and sell to NY'ers is a big problem.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 01:04:10 PM
The issue is that they're (ie. developers, crooked politicians) claiming that there's not enough housing for residents and that building growth is necessary. With that context in mind, approving variances that harm existing residents just so developers can go ahead and sell to NY'ers is a big problem.
What does that mean?

If a household is a resident, they obviously have housing. They might not own, but they do have an abode.

Free markets do generally function when the playing field is level, though the situation usually oscillates around the equilibrium rather than always stay there (see the discussion above about basements, etc.).

I consider variances are by definition a non-level playing field, and as TBL has been pointing out, should only be granted as an exception after very careful consideration, rather than rubber-stamped. Rubber-stamping variances see to indicate that there's a problem with the ordinances, there's a process to get those amended, granting variances is not part of that process.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 02, 2016, 01:35:10 PM
What does that mean?

If a household is a resident, they obviously have housing. They might not own, but they do have an abode.

Free markets do generally function when the playing field is level, though the situation usually oscillates around the equilibrium rather than always stay there (see the discussion above about basements, etc.).

I consider variances are by definition a non-level playing field, and as TBL has been pointing out, should only be granted as an exception after very careful consideration, rather than rubber-stamped. Rubber-stamping variances see to indicate that there's a problem with the ordinances, there's a process to get those amended, granting variances is not part of that process.

Not true. When current residents get married they need their own house eventually.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yitzf on December 02, 2016, 02:29:14 PM
The issue is that they're (ie. developers, crooked politicians) claiming that there's not enough housing for residents and that building growth is necessary. With that context in mind, approving variances that harm existing residents just so developers can go ahead and sell to NY'ers is a big problem.
Very well put
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 03:21:34 PM
Not true. When current residents get married they need their own house eventually.
And why do you feel that the fact that they've lived somewhere prior to forming their own household, makes them any different from anyone else forming a household and looking for an abode?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 02, 2016, 03:43:32 PM
And why do you feel that the fact that they've lived somewhere prior to forming their own household, makes them any different from anyone else forming a household and looking for an abode?

No difference at all.
That's not who they're marketing to, those people are coming anyways.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 02, 2016, 03:51:35 PM
And why do you feel that the fact that they've lived somewhere prior to forming their own household, makes them any different from anyone else forming a household and looking for an abode?
The point is more that when it is from within the community it creates a shortage which would be a reason to have lenient zoning. The zoning would be to fill a need. When it is due to marketing to those outside the community you are marketing to fill the zoning which was done to line the builder's pockets. Don't build to create a demand not there on its own.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 03, 2016, 07:45:55 PM
Seems like Rabbi Bender has a similar complaint.  Watch here from 5:00-8:00
https://vimeo.com/193202967

Wow! Says that its the developers who are knocking down a house breaking zoning laws and building 4 in its place that are the problem and cause the goyim not to like us.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 03, 2016, 08:28:39 PM
The point is more that when it is from within the community it creates a shortage which would be a reason to have lenient zoning. The zoning would be to fill a need. When it is due to marketing to those outside the community you are marketing to fill the zoning which was done to line the builder's pockets. Don't build to create a demand not there on its own.
The problems currently were not caused by the newer phenomenon of mass chasidic community building. (These shouldn't be approved, but they are not the root cause of the existing problem)
Lakewood has been a growing town for a long time.
The problem was and is complete hefkerus at the zoning and planning boards. Where literally anything goes...

Things that would be unthinkable in normal towns were approved left and right, with zero foresight or planning.

A good example of a ridiculous approvals, that would be impossible in any normal zoning board in the country, are the few main streets in town, that often have some houses with the BACK facing the main street, while the rest of houses look normal.  (Miller Rd, rt 88 etc)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 03, 2016, 08:34:30 PM
Two weeks ago when the planning board approved 30 houses at Prospect in Massachusetts with the backs facing Prospect, there is a narrow street being built that is being called a driveway and therefore it can be narrow with no sidewalks or curbs. When asked how a fire truck would be able to put out a fire on that block, they were told he would have to come from the back on Prospect and fight the fire from behind.

We should get in touch with Rabbi Bender...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 03, 2016, 09:35:57 PM
Just curious if there is a Rov who's behind this movement or if it's a self-run movement? (I'm not questioning the need for the movement, just curious about this.)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 03, 2016, 09:55:41 PM
Just curious if there is a Rov who's behind this movement or if it's a self-run movement? (I'm not questioning the need for the movement, just curious about this.)
From what I've heard there are Rabbanim that feel this way but they are afraid to go on the record....

Then there are Rabbanim outside of Lakewood who have spoken up and they are dismissed as 'not understanding the Lakewood community'.

Unfortunately, many many people who have tried to speak up have been silenced so LKWD rabbanim are afraid to say or do anything. I've been told that Rav Forscheimer says that the developers are mazikin but I didn't personally hear it from him.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 03, 2016, 10:11:15 PM
Just curious if there is a Rov who's behind this movement or if it's a self-run movement? (I'm not questioning the need for the movement, just curious about this.)
I guess the sheilah is who is the rodef and who is the nirdaf.

It's a legitimate sheilah that should be asked, discussed and settled once and for all imho.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 04, 2016, 12:05:00 AM
I guess the sheilah is who is the rodef and who is the nirdaf.

It's a legitimate sheilah that should be asked, discussed and settled once and for all imho.
I wish there were a level playing field where rabbanim would not be afraid to speak their mind...

Unfortunately, I have spoken to chasuveh yidden who tried to speak up in a respectful way and were threatened, harassed and silenced....

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 04, 2016, 12:07:36 AM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Dec-1-Township-Committee-meeting-review

There was a large crowd of residents who attended and spoke up at the township committee meeting last week. I strongly encourage you to watch from 12:45 through 1:11:00 where many residents gave excellent speeches discussing the problems being caused to Lakewood by overcrowding.


The township committee must have surely figured out by now that the residents of Lakewood are upset and frustrated. What are they doing about it?? It's time for them to take the reins on this and fix the planning and zoning board and pass ordinances to enhance some of our laws as well as restrict the games that are currently being played!!

More and more residents have attended meetings, courageously gotten up and questioned the status quo and we now turn to our elected officials. Do you really represent us? Do you want to be re-elected in the coming year? As the last speaker said - I don't know why you would even want to do this for so many years. Maybe it's time to let new people have a seat on the committee!

Some key speeches to watch (though all of them were good!):
26:00-32:35 - Must watch!!
35:50-39:53
40:00-43:52
44:00-46:18
46:20-51:45
51:50-55:50
55:50-58:00
58:00-1:01 - Must watch!!
1:01.00-1:03.30
1:03.30 -1:07:54
 1:08.00-1:11.00

At the Agudah Convention a  few weeks ago a keynote session focused on explosive growth and anti-semitism. Rabbi Bender gave an excellent speech there.

See below where he talked about how the developers are to blame for the overcrowding and when they take 1 house and turn it into 4 houses they are hurting the existing neighbors and this causes the non-jews to dislike us...

First Amendment activist now has a wonderful site with lots of information on upcoming planning and zoning board agendas and more. http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/





Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2016, 12:12:15 AM
The problems currently were not caused by the newer phenomenon of mass chasidic community building. (These shouldn't be approved, but they are not the root cause of the existing problem)
Lakewood has been a growing town for a long time.
The problem was and is complete hefkerus at the zoning and planning boards. Where literally anything goes...

Things that would be unthinkable in normal towns were approved left and right, with zero foresight or planning.

A good example of a ridiculous approvals, that would be impossible in any normal zoning board in the country, are the few main streets in town, that often have some houses with the BACK facing the main street, while the rest of houses look normal.  (Miller Rd, rt 88 etc)
I fully agree that it is not the cause. The point hough is that while there may be legitimate reason to be lenient with zoning to alleviate a housing shortage (which has been claimed for many years) that is not the case when the rezoning is done for people who would not be coming otherwise. There is no "emergency" to rezone for them.

I do disagree with your chacterization of backs of houses facing main roads. You will find that all over NJ. Just drive down Central into Jackson and there is plenty of it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 04, 2016, 09:57:07 AM




I do disagree with your chacterization of backs of houses facing main roads. You will find that all over NJ. Just drive down Central into Jackson and there is plenty of it.

I've never seen anything as retarded as Miller road, where two houses face front, one back, one front etc

You are probably talking about residential neighborhood backing to a highway or something.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2016, 09:57:55 AM

I've never seen anything as retarded as Miller road, where two houses face front, one back, one front etc

You are probably talking about residential neighborhood backing to a highway or something.
I am taking about central ave
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 04, 2016, 10:00:21 AM
I am taking about central ave
Never noticed anything so probably not as atrocious..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2016, 10:22:03 AM
Never noticed anything so probably not as atrocious..
It is just that the people in those houses have enough self-respect to put up a fence and/or bushes so you do not see the back of the house glaring at you. They probably have larger back yards as well.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on December 04, 2016, 10:23:09 AM
Prospect park has a nice amount of rear facing houses.
Forest park was smart enough to put the pit between the houses and the street.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Prospect park has a nice amount of rear facing houses.
Forest park was smart enough to put the pit between the houses and the street.
The location of the detention basin is not as much a result of smarts as it is a result of practicality. The biggest questions are where it can be placed with the least impact on buildable land as well as topography where the water will flow downward to the basin.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on December 04, 2016, 12:19:25 PM
Prospect park has a nice amount of rear facing houses.
Forest park was smart enough to put the pit between the houses and the street.

The retention basin actually is between the houses and prospect st, it's just covered up and part of the backyards. And there is a row of trees/bushes and fencing between the backs of the houses and the st. The relevant point here is actually that the stretch of Prospect between Massachusetts and Cross was never residential, and there are almost no houses at all on that stretch facing Prospect St.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 04, 2016, 12:55:57 PM
The retention basin actually is between the houses and prospect st, it's just covered up and part of the backyards. And there is a row of trees/bushes and fencing between the backs of the houses and the st. The relevant point here is actually that the stretch of Prospect between Massachusetts and Cross was never residential, and there are almost no houses at all on that stretch facing Prospect St.
+1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 04, 2016, 02:35:07 PM
The houses from Primrose look much worse than the ones from Debra. Why? Very simple. The ones from Debra have arborvitaes against Miller while the ones from Primrose don't.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: danrocks613 on December 04, 2016, 11:46:48 PM
This may need its own thread. Re- Assessments for the whole lakewood are out. Ridiculous increases.
http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331
Click assessment link
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: danrocks613 on December 04, 2016, 11:47:45 PM
This may need its own thread. Re- Assessments for the whole lakewood are out. Ridiculous increases.
http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331
Click assessment link
http://asinj.com/revaluation/docs/assessmentlists/331/Lakewood%20Proposed%20Residential%20Assessments%20(released%20as%20of%2011-30-16).xlsx
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 04, 2016, 11:51:55 PM
This may need its own thread. Re- Assessments for the whole lakewood are out. Ridiculous increases.
http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331
Click assessment link
Well someone's gotta pay for all this! As a member of the BOE said at the twp committee meeting last week (speaking on his own behalf), each new house cost the township more than the taxes it brings in. Plus, if one house has a kid in SCHI, the cost of that ($97K tuition) wipes out the taxes from many many houses....

All of this building is adding to our taxes so in effect, we are paying toward the destruction of LKWD....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 05, 2016, 07:56:51 AM
At this point we need to come up with a concrete plan and solution and push for it.

It doesn't matter what it is, but we can't just keep expecting that the committee will "do something". We need to demand a specific action or ordnance and then be relentless about it.

For eg. Say the solution is to go back to the old zoning map.
We need to run a public campaign pushing for this specific ordinance change.  (Not saying this is necessarily the answer, just an example).

Since the current committee doesn't have the political capital to make any big changes (they didn't run or get elected based on this agenda), we may need to push for a referendum vote on our plan.

Bottom line, I think we have reached a point where the problem has been sufficiently brought to their attention. But we cannot assume that they will come up with a smart plan to deal with it. It's up to us.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 05, 2016, 07:59:39 AM
Il add, currently the actionable plan is only to "show up and speak up".
Now we need phase 2
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 05, 2016, 08:32:07 AM
The issue is that they're (ie. developers, crooked politicians) claiming that there's not enough housing for residents and that building growth is necessary. With that context in mind, approving variances that harm existing residents just so developers can go ahead and sell to NY'ers is a big problem.

The New Yorkers are otherwise known as your brothers, crushed by a NY housing crisis.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 05, 2016, 08:40:43 AM
The New Yorkers are otherwise known as your brothers, crushed by a NY housing crisis.
So come crush Lakewood. How considerate.
Maybe they can set up shop anywhere else?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 05, 2016, 09:14:16 AM
The New Yorkers are otherwise known as your brothers, crushed by a NY housing crisis.

You're missing the point.
If you need a marketing campaign to convince people to move to Lakewood then there is no severe shortage of housing. If there's no shortage, then you don't need to approve variances. 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 09:17:49 AM
The New Yorkers are otherwise known as your brothers, crushed by a NY housing crisis.
There are communities all over the US that are dying to  have young families move in. The trend is that all young families move to Lakewood. That has been hurting other communities for a long time as other communities who already have schools, shuls and stores see the average ages of their residents get older and older and wish that young families would move in.

See this article that was sent to me on this topic (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oHa_CBN-IOi_aeytS9EqghOL4O_zNTcT-SbSuwERKDg/edit?usp=sharing)

Having everyone in one place leads to many problems other than just housing. It will also cause a housing crisis here. Why not spread out? Even if you want to be connected to the Lakewood community, there are so many contiguous land sources connected to Lakewood (Jackson, Toms River, Howell, Brick). Once those are full we can move on to Lakehurst, Manchester etc etc (assuming that everyone NEEDS to live in the Lakewood region). Why the need to squeeze everyone into Lakewood in a way that will overcrowd Lakewood and bring down everyone's quality of life.

Also, why not identify a completely new area and build it up? It's impossible to say that the only place that Sanz, Beltz, Satmar etc can find to build 500 houses is in Lakewood. If they start a new town somewhere they can grow much larger than that!

Lastly, this is being done by realtors who are simply trying to profit at the expense of everyone else. They have parlor meetings in NY convincing people to move to Lakewood and 'selling' them on the lifestyle. It's obviously easier to sell $650K+ houses with no grass to NY residents than it is to LKWD residents...

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 05, 2016, 09:21:11 AM
The New Yorkers are otherwise known as your brothers, crushed by a NY housing crisis.

Imagine there's a shortage of wheat flour in the US, and the government starts rationing flour.
Wonder bread comes along and says they need way more flour than they're used to purchasing, to sell to their US customers. Little do we know, wonderbread starts a massive marketing campaign to sell bread in Europe. Should Americans be upset? Would they be upset at Europeans or Wonder bread?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 09:33:57 AM
At this point we need to come up with a concrete plan and solution and push for it....

...Bottom line, I think we have reached a point where the problem has been sufficiently brought to their attention. But we cannot assume that they will come up with a smart plan to deal with it. It's up to us.
Agreed. There are several prongs to the next phase.

They include:
1) Working with a lawyer to somehow restrict the ability of the boards to consistently engage in illegal spot-zoning and zoning by variance from a broader level (ie a ruling from a higher court etc. calling out their consistent illegal rulings and limiting them).

2) Working with a lawyer to come up with legal common sense ordinances that could close loopholes and fix problems. Propose those to the TWP and get them on the agenda for a vote - forcing the committeemen who are NOT willing to work with us - to vote NO thereby sealing their fate for the coming elections. I am compiling a list of suggested ordinances. Feel free to reach out with your ideas.

3)Identifying candidates to run in the coming elections if there are committeemen who are not passing the needed ordinances. See below for the 2014 and 2015 election results. If the current politicians are not actively working with us and voting on ordinances to fix the problems then they will need to be voted out. Keep in mind that in the below results, many of the seniors don't bother to vote because they know that there is a forgone conclusion. If there is an organized effort to get a new candidate in and the seniors and a portion of the Orthodox community are motivated to vote in a new candidate it should be very easy to get done. We have had these committeemen for many many years. It's never a good idea to have someone in public service for so many years with no fear of getting voted out. They are now on notice that if they don't contribute actively toward fixing this they will not be re-elected....

4) Continuing to work on having permanent changes made to the zoning and planning boards... Stay tuned for January 2017 for some progress on that end.

2015 Election (Up for re-election in 2018)                                                2014 Election (Up for re-election in 2017)
✓ Menashe Miller (REP) - 6,343                                                                              ✓ Michael J. D'elia (R) 8,579
✓ Meir Lichtenstein (DEM) - 6,016                                                                           ✓ Raymond Coles (D) 7,189
   Michael Berman (REP) - 2,426                                                                                Steven Langert (R) 6,467
   Marta Harrison (DEM) - 2,161                                                                                 Moshe Raitzik (D) 3,579
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 05, 2016, 09:48:29 AM
This may need its own thread. Re- Assessments for the whole lakewood are out. Ridiculous increases.
http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331 (http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331)
Click assessment link
Are you basing it being ridiculous on the assessment or on where it brings taxes. I have seen houses where their assessed value went up more than 50% but their taxes went down. If the entire Township is now at a hgiher value that does not change the tax level at all. THe taxes are approved as a total dollar amount which the tax collector splits by value. The bigger issue is the way a higher value affects state aid.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 10:02:01 AM
Zoning Board Tonight at 7:00 PM

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Meeting-Monday-Dec-5th-at-7-00

The applications total an astounding 228 houses, 456 families and 912 cars!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 05, 2016, 10:07:08 AM
Zoning Board Tonight at 7:00 PM

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Meeting-Monday-Dec-5th-at-7-00

The applications total an astounding 228 houses, 456 families and 912 cars!!

A beautiful sight to see. Joy overfills me. A nekama in Hitler.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 05, 2016, 10:21:35 AM
A beautiful sight to see. Joy overfills me. A nekama in Hitler.
Are you a developer or closely related to one?
Do you even live in lakewood?
There is a massive quality of life issue in this town. The traffic is unbearable it is a huge issue that must be addressed. There is nothing wrong with building hundreds of houses but not at the expense of the entire town. There is no reason they must be built ghetto style in the middle of lakewood. The developers should be required to build up the infrastructure so the town can handle it, we still have the same main roads with a bunch of cul-de-sacs opening to them, instead the developers should be required to include more main access roads so they can ease the issue instead of making it worse or build in nearby towns and don't overcrowd there's nothing wrong with building the community out to nearby towns, we don't have to live in a ghetto. If things would be done smartly we would never have this issue.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 05, 2016, 10:39:48 AM
TakebackLakewood: While you seem to have a good 4 step plan, there is one step that you missed that is vital for the overall plan to work. You must find Lakewood Rabbonim who are willing to be quoted. As hard as it might be, it almost for sure won't work without that. Much effort should be expended on talking to Rabbanim. As much as you might not like it, the fact is that it is almost impossible to get someone elected to the committee if they are anti-establishment, unless they have solid support from (at least one) well respected Rov. While you may be right that most Rabbanim don't want to cause themselves trouble, there are definatly some that are willing to speak up if they beleive that there's a major issue (they may not agree that there's a major issue, but if they do they will guide you to the solution). Besides for the fact that the person won't be voted in without Rabbinical backing (whether you like it or not - call the system rigged if you want), you will also have trouble finding a good candidate, because no smart person I know will be willing to stick his neck out, and risk not getting his kids into good schools (again- call the system rigged if you want, but facts are still facts). With Rabbinical backing, the candidate will have the Rov as the reason for anything he does and he can deflect anyones complaints to the Rov. I'm not taking sides on this matter, or denying that there is a problem, I just don't see a viable solution without having Daas Torah on board.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 05, 2016, 10:43:43 AM
TakebackLakewood: While you seem to have a good 4 step plan, there is one step that you missed that is vital for the overall plan to work. You must find Lakewood Rabbonim who are willing to be quoted. As hard as it might be, it almost for sure won't work without that. Much effort should be expended on talking to Rabbanim. As much as you might not like it, the fact is that it is almost impossible to get someone elected to the committee if they are anti-establishment, unless you have solid from (at least one) well respected Rov. While you may be right that most Rabbanim don't want to cause themselves trouble, there are definatly some that are willing to speak up if they beleive that there's a major issue (they may not agree that there's a major issue, but if they do there will guide you to the solution). Besides for the fact that the person won't be voted in without Rabbinical backing (whether you like it or not - call the system rigged if you want), you will also have trouble finding a good candidate, because no smart person I know will be willing to stick his neck out, and risk getting his kids into good schools (again- call the system rigged if you want, but facts are still facts). With Rabbinical backing, the candidate will have the Rov as the reason for anything he does and he can deflect anyones complaints to the Rov. I'm not taking sides on this matter, or denying that there is a problem, I just don't see a viable solution without having Daas Torah on board.
The goal is not to replace the current administration, it is to have them do their duty and help the town instead of special interests nothing more.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 05, 2016, 10:45:49 AM
Are you a developer or closely related to one?
Do you even live in lakewood?
There is a massive quality of life issue in this town. The traffic is unbearable it is a huge issue that must be addressed. There is nothing wrong with building hundreds of houses but not at the expense of the entire town. There is no reason they must be built ghetto style in the middle of lakewood. The developers should be required to build up the infrastructure so the town can handle it, we still have the same main roads with a bunch of cul-de-sacs opening to them, instead the developers should be required to include more main access roads so they can ease the issue instead of making it worse or build in nearby towns and don't overcrowd there's nothing wrong with building the community out to nearby towns, we don't have to live in a ghetto. If things would be done smartly we would never have this issue.


Everyone is related to a developer... lol
No
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 05, 2016, 10:49:09 AM
Everyone is related to a developer... lol
No
Do you live in lakewood?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Aaaron on December 05, 2016, 11:01:12 AM
Do you live in lakewood?

He answered that.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 11:11:56 AM
A beautiful sight to see. Joy overfills me. A nekama in Hitler.
I'll refer you to my earlier response to you here.
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=67445.msg1581936#msg1581936

I love yidden and hope everyone has a house to live in somewhere.
A) It does not all need to be in one town that can't handle it with the current infrastructure
B) If you lived in Lakewood you would understand the situation better
C) If for some odd reason Lakewood is the only place that everyone can move to, let's at least do it responsibly with new through streets and a mediocum of responsible planning/building.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 11:14:58 AM
The goal is not to replace the current administration, it is to have them do their duty and help the town instead of special interests nothing more.
Correct  - if they take action. If they do not and especially if they thwart progress then they need to be voted out...

Some of them may be in too deep to salvage...  I recognize that they have done much chessed and helped many yechidim in the small picture. In the big picture though, for overall communal needs - in many ways they have dropped the ball or worse, thrown it away...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 05, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
He answered that.
It all looked like 1 sentence to me (on tapatalk)

Everyone is related to a developer... lol
No

Based on your answers you have no right to make such comments. Your ignorance is very apparant.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 05, 2016, 11:23:47 AM
Everyone is related to a developer... lol
No
Are familiar with the issues they are complaining about? If you do not understand the issue then why make dismissive comments? Would you support it if suddenly a developer surrounded your house and filled your entire area with high-rise apartments while adding no additional infrastructure? Maybe you live in an area full of such buildings, but what if the streets there were not able to handle it? Wouldn't it make more sense to plan properly instead of just having a "yidden are great" attitude?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: danrocks613 on December 05, 2016, 11:24:02 AM
Are you basing it being ridiculous on the assessment or on where it brings taxes. I have seen houses where their assessed value went up more than 50% but their taxes went down. If the entire Township is now at a hgiher value that does not change the tax level at all. THe taxes are approved as a total dollar amount which the tax collector splits by value. The bigger issue is the way a higher value affects state aid.
We're the new rates released that you know the taxes went down after reassessment? Please share. Thanks.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 05, 2016, 11:40:23 AM
We're the new rates released that you know the taxes went down after reassessment? Please share. Thanks.
These were discussed in the Lakewood Master thread.
http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331 (http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331)

Lakewood 2017 Reassessment Tax Worksheet (http://asinj.com/revaluation/docs/taximpact/331/Lakewood%202017%20Reassessment%20Tax%20Worksheet.xls)

In general at a reassessment some houses will go up and some will go down. In theory this happens because some properties are valued based on different valuation levels than others and the reassessment evens them out.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 05, 2016, 11:40:32 AM
Are familiar with the issues they are complaining about? If you do not understand the issue then why make dismissive comments? Would you support it if suddenly a developer surrounded your house and filled your entire area with high-rise apartments while adding no additional infrastructure? Maybe you live in an area full of such buildings, but what if the streets there were not able to handle it? Wouldn't it make more sense to plan properly instead of just having a "yidden are great" attitude?

It's reality where I live. Every single point.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 05, 2016, 11:44:42 AM
It's reality where I live. Every single point.
Wouldn't it make more sense to plan properly instead of just having a "yidden are great" attitude?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 05, 2016, 11:50:15 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense to plan properly instead of just having a "yidden are great" attitude?

Proper planning hasn't happened anywhere yidden live. It's reality. Only goyim in the suburbs with strict zoning rules.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 05, 2016, 11:55:21 AM
Proper planning hasn't happened anywhere yidden live. It's reality. Only goyim in the suburbs with strict zoning rules.
I really hope you're just trying to push people's buttons.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 05, 2016, 11:56:54 AM
Proper planning hasn't happened anywhere yidden live. It's reality. Only goyim in the suburbs with strict zoning rules.
Iirc you're a belzer... So obviously belz can do no wrong.

 You are too biased to properly discuss this.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: danrocks613 on December 05, 2016, 12:54:28 PM
These were discussed in the Lakewood Master thread.
http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331 (http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=331)

Lakewood 2017 Reassessment Tax Worksheet (http://asinj.com/revaluation/docs/taximpact/331/Lakewood%202017%20Reassessment%20Tax%20Worksheet.xls)

In general at a reassessment some houses will go up and some will go down. In theory this happens because some properties are valued based on different valuation levels than others and the reassessment evens them out.
Thanks for catching me up.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 05, 2016, 02:23:50 PM
Iirc you're a belzer... So obviously belz can do no wrong.

 You are too biased to properly discuss this.



haha. Belz is a fraction of the building in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 05, 2016, 02:28:14 PM
haha. Belz is a fraction of the building in Lakewood.
That does nothing to remove your bias
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ya on December 05, 2016, 02:44:24 PM
I really hope you're just trying to push people's buttons.
Its very true. Listen to what Rabbi Bender said. Look whats happening in Monsey now. There is a reason goyim dont want jews moving anywhere near them (and its not anti-semtic)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: nucheiner on December 05, 2016, 03:12:55 PM
Zoning Board Tonight at 7:00 PM

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Meeting-Monday-Dec-5th-at-7-00

The applications total an astounding 228 houses, 456 families and 912 cars!!
Re: Mark Properties Application

A. Locust St in particular was a street of developments which were built properly and were and are maintained properly, landscaping etc... It is unjust to approve such high density in the area (especially without an association that will maintain them up to par with the area) and destroy the existing charm of the area which was built up and paid for by the local residents. This is unethical.

B. This area is the Toms River-Lakewood border. There is no need to welcome all visitors to town with a display of high density housing in contrast to the beautiful neighborhood of TR leading into Lakewood.

It'd be great if someone can present this at tonight's meeting.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 05, 2016, 03:33:08 PM
Appeal # 3967 – Cong. Maalos Hatorah, Block 1159 Lots 35-38, 86 & 89, Block 1159.04 Lots  25, 26, 28, 29 & 30. R-20 zone.  .  Use variance for requested for duplexes.  38 houses where 9 are permitted. That's 74 families and 148 cars. Near Stamford Meadows on Chestnut
Applicant requested to carry to a January meeting

Appeal # 4000 – Faraday Estates, West Cross Street & Faraday Ave, Block 508 Lots 2 & 3 (Corner of James and Faraday)    R-20 zone. To construct 30 single family homes on undersized lot.
Wants to change zone from R-20 to R12 and build 30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars!

Applicant requested to carry to a future meeting


They better stop this nonsense.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 05, 2016, 03:35:31 PM
Appeal # 3967 – Cong. Maalos Hatorah, Block 1159 Lots 35-38, 86 & 89, Block 1159.04 Lots  25, 26, 28, 29 & 30. R-20 zone.  .  Use variance for requested for duplexes.  38 houses where 9 are permitted. That's 74 families and 148 cars. Near Stamford Meadows on Chestnut
Applicant requested to carry to a January meeting

Appeal # 4000 – Faraday Estates, West Cross Street & Faraday Ave, Block 508 Lots 2 & 3 (Corner of James and Faraday)    R-20 zone. To construct 30 single family homes on undersized lot.
Wants to change zone from R-20 to R12 and build 30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars!

Applicant requested to carry to a future meeting


They better stop this nonsense.


Do they legally have a right to have it postponed or is it a request which the board can either grant or deny?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 03:37:13 PM
At least they decided before the meeting. Lately a few applications that spent 45 minutes presenting and realize they will be denied - asked to carry to another meeting. The board should just continue with a vote but they like the developers so much that they give in and let them push it off...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 05, 2016, 03:38:47 PM


Do they legally have a right to have it postponed or is it a request which the board can either grant or deny?

They're requesting variances.
There's no legal requirement to grant them.

If they cancel/delay their application it should be toast.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 05, 2016, 03:55:06 PM
They're requesting variances.
There's no legal requirement to grant them.

If they cancel/delay their application it should be toast.
Correct. Unfortunately, the boards are all to happy to allow them to carry with no new notice etc...

That gets residents who shlepped out discouraged and eventually when they're not there it slips through.
The Westgate/Penzer/Microphone gate application is on tonight. Let's see if he figures out a way to talk to his client a few feet away (gasp) since the township indicated that there will be no changes to microphones...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on December 05, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
@TBL The last speaker in last weeks video is  Rav M.Friedman who is one of the biggest talmidei chachomim in town and a brilliant man (illui). He is well respected by all the rabbonim in town. I suggest getting him involved. hatzlacha
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 06, 2016, 01:02:51 PM
What happened at last night's zoning meeting?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 06, 2016, 01:16:55 PM
What happened at last night's zoning meeting?
I have not yet seen the video but from what I heard...

There were only 6 members. Certain types of variances require a certain minimum # of votes (5?) so at the beginning of the meeting several applicants asked to carry to another meeting. The Westgate Application did not join in that request.

The first item for 1 duplex was heard and after much back and forth (approx an hour) was finally approved. I believe this one was pushed off last time over concerns about potential attic apartments.

At that point when dozens of Westgate residents and their lawyer finally had their turn, A. Penzer (suddenly not camera shy) asked to carry. The opposing lawyer made the argument that they could call or video in another board member etc with no luck. Then she asked that he be required to pay her legal fees for coming down twice with him asking to carry both times. The board considered it but didn't want to impose that since it had never been done before. The board seemed to lean toward a rule that going forward, if an application is pushed off a 2nd time then you will need a new application and new notice.

After a misvote with no majority and a revote, the board begrudgingly allowed him to carry one last time.

I believe that all of the other applications last night were carried.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on December 06, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
I have not yet seen the video but from what I heard...

There were only 6 members. Certain types of variances require a certain minimum # of votes (5?) so at the beginning of the meeting several applicants asked to carry to another meeting. The Westgate Application did not join in that request.

The first item for 1 duplex was heard and after much back and forth (approx an hour) was finally approved. I believe this one was pushed off last time over concerns about potential attic apartments).

At that point when dozens of Westgate residents and their lawyer finally had their turn, A Penzer (suddenly not camera shy) asked to carry. The opposing lawyer made the argument that they could call or video in another board member etc with no luck. Then she asked that he be required to pay her legal fees for coming down twice with him asking to carry both times. The board considered it but didn't want to impose that since it had never been done before. The board seemed to lean toward a rule that going forward, if an application is pushed off a 2nd time then you will need a new application and new notice.

After a misvote with no majority and a revote, the board begrudgingly allowed him to carry one last time.

I believe that all of the other applications last night were carried.
1. Seems like you guys have one big messed up system there
2. I admire your persistence
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yosefshatz on December 06, 2016, 03:49:37 PM
Can you sue the committee?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 06, 2016, 03:55:00 PM
Can you sue the committee?
In suing a municipality, you always have an uphill battle, because there is a presumption that a municipality has acted correctly – that is, the burden is on the resident to demonstrate that the municipality abused its discretion or violated some statute.  Of course, it can be done in the proper case, but it’s often not easy.

There is an appeal procedure for each approval that is granted by the Planning Board or Zoning, and the appeal to the court must be filed within 45 days of the board’s approval and that is done on a case by case basis.

We are exploring to find a way to somehow legally restrict them since they are systematically engaging in illegal spot-zoning and zoning by variance. 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jellybelly on December 09, 2016, 11:28:13 AM
Just noticed a couple more houses got knocked down on the 88 near clover. There's a sign up, seems like they're making some type of culde sac or maybe a row of houses. There goes my shortcut to bypass cedar bridge! Are there any plans of widening the 88, or is that gonna take forever just like route 9?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jellybelly on December 09, 2016, 11:31:39 AM
Can you sue the committee?
was thinking about that, or to bypass the township and complain to the state, but we'd probably be worse off. Isn't that what the Boe tried doing by bringing in a state monitor? That didn't seem to work out so well....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 11, 2016, 10:05:22 AM
Edited post
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 11, 2016, 10:07:32 AM
If you go to the state, chances are that the entire "corruption scandal" story will be in the APP within minutes, and maybe even in the mainsteam media soon after. Before you do that you gotta speak to a Rov (even off record if none will go on record).
As I get deeper into this I find that the corruption goes deeper and deeper.

I'd hate for the State to find out etc because I don't wish jail time on anyone. What I would love is if they would just start behaving going forward but they seem to be too deep in to stop now...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 11, 2016, 10:11:31 AM
Edited post
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on December 11, 2016, 10:13:27 AM
That's possible. But it doesn't mean that a Rov doesn't have to be consulted before you expose an enormous Chillul Hashem. Maybe he'll tell you it's not allowed, or that there are internal ways to fix the problem.

He's trying to say that eventually someone is gonna pick up on it even if no one tattles.
Maybe the corrupt officials should start consulting with a rov to help straighten them out before its too late.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 11, 2016, 10:21:26 AM
Edited post
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 11, 2016, 10:24:16 AM

Edited post


Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 11, 2016, 10:35:02 AM
Wow this just turned dark...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: flyingace on December 11, 2016, 10:53:35 AM
I think all these references should be removed for the same reason. Don't you think it's already saying too much?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 11, 2016, 11:29:26 AM
Did my part
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 11, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
Someone please pm me what I missed!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 11, 2016, 02:36:35 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161211/4653d42f99108b4a72c2d0ea5831e06c.jpg)
Asher O is part of this conspiracy??
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 11, 2016, 02:38:50 PM
[IMG]
Asher O is part of this conspiracy??
He is a mod. He was probably asked by YitzyS via RTM to remove the place that his deleted post was quoted.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 11, 2016, 02:41:00 PM
He is a mod. He was probably asked by YitzyS via RTM to remove the place that his deleted post was quoted.


Was YitzyS threatened?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 11, 2016, 02:44:41 PM

Was YitzyS threatened?
Possibly....

That is currently happening to people in Lakewood......VHameiven Yavin......

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on December 11, 2016, 02:44:46 PM

Was YitzyS threatened?
The bottom line is the blatant garbage that has gone on for years is mind blowing. Shocking that none of our enemies have gotten a hold of it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on December 11, 2016, 02:45:18 PM
Possibly....

That is currently happening to people in Lakewood......VHameiven Yavin......
As I predicted upthread......
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 11, 2016, 02:58:44 PM
As I predicted upthread......
Well, TBL hasn't been threatened since it's hard to threaten anonymous internet sources.

Others have been threatened. It seems that people who have stood up in the past have been threatened into submission. That has squashed previous movements but it won't stop us. Many many people are starting to realize that you can only oppress/suppress the masses for so long...

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: flyingace on December 11, 2016, 03:46:11 PM
As far as I know he was responding to my post...Let's not get carried away. This is how rumors start....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 11, 2016, 08:01:28 PM
His post deserved to be deleted by mods. I would imagine he didn't mean it the way it came out.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 11, 2016, 08:09:13 PM
Sorry for the ambiguity. I was not threatened at all. I wrote something about "Eetonim Shel Akum" that wasn't smart because I don't want them (ibid) to see it. Someone pointed that out, and since it was within the time I was able to still edit them, I did. Since I was on the mobile site, I couldn't outright delete them, so I just edited them to say "Post edited". Sorry, but it was nothing to sinister.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 11, 2016, 08:16:57 PM
Sorry for the ambiguity. I was not threatened at all. I wrote something about "Eetonim Shel Akum" that wasn't smart because I don't want them (ibid) to see it. Someone pointed that out, and since it was within the time I was able to still edit them, I did. Since I was on the mobile site, I couldn't outright delete them, so I just edited them to say "Post edited". Sorry, but it was nothing to sinister.
And that wasn't even what I posted this face   about or quoted which a mod edited out.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: flyingace on December 11, 2016, 09:29:20 PM
Sorry for the ambiguity. I was not threatened at all. I wrote something about "Eetonim Shel Akum" that wasn't smart because I don't want them (ibid) to see it. Someone pointed that out, and since it was within the time I was able to still edit them, I did. Since I was on the mobile site, I couldn't outright delete them, so I just edited them to say "Post edited". Sorry, but it was nothing to sinister.
Not what I meant either!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Freddie on December 11, 2016, 09:56:42 PM
I haven't been following this thread so forgive me if this was suggested already but I just had a brainstorm!

Tents! Forget the greedy developers and just go put up a city of tents on public land! You can even call it "Tent City!"

Was this suggested yet?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on December 11, 2016, 09:57:48 PM
I haven't been following this thread so forgive me if this was suggested already but I just had a brainstorm!

Tents! Forget the greedy developers and just go put up a city of tents on public land! You can even call it "Tent City!"

Was this suggested yet?
The problem is that BMG owns that land already
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on December 12, 2016, 09:48:06 AM
what happ with the plaza at rt 9 and chestnut?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 12, 2016, 09:51:51 AM
what happ with the plaza at rt 9 and chestnut?
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-puts-stop-work-order-at-construction-site/

The sad thing is that this is probably just the tip of the iceberg. This seemed like the simplest application. 'Already approved by the building department'etc....

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on December 12, 2016, 05:44:18 PM
Regarding the building on the corner of Route 9 and Chestnut, the lawyer was saying that a "right only"sign out onto Chestnut Street would not work anyhow because  sane people would never make a left out anyhow and insane people making a left out wont listen anyhow. I find that a bit strange. First of all, I am certain that a sign will be helpful to a degree as some people respect signs and cops can ticket. It wont stop left turns completely, but what does a sign hurt? And besides, there is barely a cost to adding a sign so why argue about it?

The other point is that the entrance facing route 9 is also not great for a left turn, especially when the light is red. I guess there has to be some kind of left turn somewhere...unfortunately the whole route 9 is killed beyond repair so its not like there are any great solutions. Ever see what goes on by super stop on Friday? Its a disaster waiting to happen chas v'shalom.

And what about the construction on Oak and Route 9? That place is backed up and dangerous. Is a light coming to that corner? It will back up traffic even more but at least it will regulate traffic. I don't know why all these homes are getting approved for building directly off route 9 which is killed beyond repair. Its either traffic and danger or red lights with less danger and more traffic. Lakewood can't be made great again but hopefully people will come to their senses before it becomes worse again and again
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 12, 2016, 05:47:42 PM
First of all, I am certain that a sign will be helpful to a degree as some people respect signs and cops can ticket.
It would help about as much as the one saying not to make a left from the Gourmet Glatt parking lot (the entrance without the light) onto Kennedy and the cops would give the same amount of tickets.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JoeyShmoe on December 12, 2016, 06:01:26 PM
Regarding the building on the corner of Route 9 and Chestnut, the lawyer was saying that a "right only"sign out onto Chestnut Street would not work anyhow because  sane people would never make a left out anyhow and insane people making a left out wont listen anyhow. I find that a bit strange. First of all, I am certain that a sign will be helpful to a degree as some people respect signs and cops can ticket. It wont stop left turns completely, but what does a sign hurt? And besides, there is barely a cost to adding a sign so why argue about it?
I guess I'm insane, I live on Chestnut and when I buy from Pizza On Wheels I always make a left turn (not before checking 15 times that there are no cars coming). I do agree that it's a dangerous turn and something should be done to fix it, but how else am I supposed to get home? By going either right or left on River there's no place you can make a legal u-turn without it getting complicated...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on December 12, 2016, 06:12:10 PM
I guess I'm insane, I live on Chestnut and when I buy from Pizza On Wheels I always make a left turn (not before checking 15 times that there are no cars coming). I do agree that it's a dangerous turn and something should be done to fix it, but how else am I supposed to get home? By going either right or left on River there's no place you can make a legal u-turn without it getting complicated...
It's crazy however you slice it, but the best thing would probably be to make a left onto the 9 from the other exit and an immediate left onto Chestnut. You wont lose much time
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 12, 2016, 06:52:44 PM
It's crazy however you slice it, but the best thing would probably be to make a left onto the 9 from the other exit and an immediate left onto Chestnut. You wont lose much time
you can make a right and then make the first right off of route 9 onto Yale for a cost of about two minutes
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 12, 2016, 07:31:44 PM
It would help about as much as the one saying not to make a left from the Gourmet Glatt parking lot (the entrance without the light) onto Kennedy and the cops would give the same amount of tickets.
Most normal people do not make that left.
And I have seen plenty of tickets for it over the years...
Especially since for some reason SR had a permanent police presence..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 12, 2016, 07:38:01 PM
Most normal people do not make that left.
And I have seen plenty of tickets for it over the years...
Especially since for some reason SR had a permanent police presence..
I can tell you that I gave up using that entrance to turn right because I am always stuck behind someone trying to make a left. I have never in twenty years in Lakewood seem someone get a ticket for it including when it was in front of cops.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 12, 2016, 07:50:15 PM
I can tell you that I gave up using that entrance to turn right because I am always stuck behind someone trying to make a left. I have never in twenty years in Lakewood seem someone get a ticket for it including when it was in front of cops.

You would do that in front of a cop?

Anyway, I've seen tickets...


Also, you need to learn how to cut in to the front of the line up there.... Need to squeeze in from the right side- works most times
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 12, 2016, 07:52:16 PM
You would do that in front of a cop?

Anyway, I've seen tickets...


Also, you need to learn how to cut in to the front of the line up there.... Need to squeeze in from the right side- works most times
until they make a left turn from the right side.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on December 12, 2016, 08:23:19 PM
@TBL The last speaker in last weeks video is  Rav M.Friedman who is one of the biggest talmidei chachomim in town and a brilliant man (illui). He is well respected by all the rabbonim in town. I suggest getting him involved. hatzlacha
His nickname is "Shas Friedman", and he is said to know the seforim Dibros Moshe from Rav Moshe ZT"L cover to cover.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: AsherO on December 12, 2016, 08:28:30 PM
Asher O is part of this conspiracy??

lol, I saw a user edited out his post, so I edited out where it was quoted as well. Almost a Streisand effect... :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on December 12, 2016, 09:07:59 PM
Whenever someone in front of me has his blinker on to make a left on a right-only turn, I always give short taps on my horn unrelentlessly. Call me annoying but it almost always works sooner or later.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 12, 2016, 10:06:00 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/The-Chesnut-River-Saga-continues/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 12, 2016, 10:21:14 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/The-Chesnut-River-Saga-continues/
How much did it sell for? What was the price, or is that private also?

Ordinance says FMV.
Who assessed the FMV, and was it arms length?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JoeyShmoe on December 13, 2016, 10:16:04 AM
It's crazy however you slice it, but the best thing would probably be to make a left onto the 9 from the other exit and an immediate left onto Chestnut. You wont lose much time
The left on to the 9 is way more dangerous IMHO, there's isn't much place to straighten out before the intersection.
you can make a right and then make the first right off of route 9 onto Yale for a cost of about two minutes
As I'm relatively new to the area I wasn't aware, I'll try that the next time it comes up. Thanks
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on December 13, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
How much did it sell for? What was the price, or is that private also?

Ordinance says FMV.
Who assessed the FMV, and was it arms length?

The post was updated with the info you're asking for.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 14, 2016, 09:09:18 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161214/8679ff2b519b29350f6e9cf947ab3853.jpg)

LOL
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on December 14, 2016, 08:32:14 PM
unconfirmed Report:  VAAD gives Mike Delia the boot. Puts in Democrat Ray Coles to do as they say. It was understood that Mike Delia would be our next mayor . But it seems that his agreement with take back lakewood and those that want to curb development did not agree with the VAAD. In an unprecedented move ,after a meeting at voting commission member yisroel schenkolwlewskis house ,Mike Delia was told that he will not be the mayor this year. It was decided that Democrat Ray Coles Will be the mayor. Even though the Democrats are not the majority it seems that the VAAD decides that they will make sure that the mayor is someone that will tow the line. Somebody is running scared.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on December 15, 2016, 12:37:20 AM
Was Take back lakewood hacked?

This site can’t be reached

www.takebacklakewood.com took too long to respond.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: coralsnake on December 15, 2016, 12:39:27 AM
Was Take back lakewood hacked?

This site can’t be reached

www.takebacklakewood.com took too long to respond.
Maybe it was taken back.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on December 15, 2016, 12:47:36 AM
Was Take back lakewood hacked?

This site can’t be reached

www.takebacklakewood.com took too long to respond.
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.takebacklakewood.com
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on December 15, 2016, 07:33:24 AM
Was Take back lakewood hacked?

This site can’t be reached

www.takebacklakewood.com took too long to respond.
Seems fine
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 15, 2016, 07:49:01 AM
Seems fine
Our server went down for a bit but it's back up now.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 15, 2016, 10:04:07 AM
This plot is getting thicker and thicker.....

Mike De'lia announced publicly at the Republican club on Monday night that he will be the Mayor next year.
He announced it a 2nd time at the Parks Master plan subcommittee on Tuesday night. See here are 54:40 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ71Zyt-WDw)

There is some really backhanded stuff going on here in this attempt to stop the residents of Lakewood from seeing positive change.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on December 15, 2016, 10:05:59 AM
This plot is getting thicker and thicker.....

Mike De'lia announced publicly at the Republican club on Monday night that he will be the Mayor next year.
He announced it a 2nd time at the Parks Master plan subcommittee on Tuesday night. See here are 54:40 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ71Zyt-WDw)

There is some really backhanded stuff going on here in this attempt to stop the residents of Lakewood from seeing positive change.
i'm not sure i get the nuance. Seems to me like the normal rotation
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 15, 2016, 10:11:28 AM
i'm not sure i get the nuance. Seems to me like the normal rotation
Mike De'lia would have been normal rotation. He has never been mayor before, he is the only one on the committee who has not been mayor  and the past 2 years saw the other 2/3 republicans as mayor. He was promised this a year ago and was all set up for it.

Suddenly a movement clamoring for change hits Lakewood and he was THE person actively championing to change things and therefore posed a challenge to people who DO NOT WANT change for the better. He gets a mysterious phone call, some well thought out threats are made and suddenly and 'inexplicably' he pulls out of the running for the position (that he just announced twice publicly this week that he is taking).

I have a strong theory on how they threatened him......

Ray is a democrat who would normally not be considered at all due to being in the minority. I strongly believe that the negative blowback that this underhanded move caused will result in Coles not taking the seat in the end.....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on December 15, 2016, 10:17:37 AM
Mike De'lia would have been normal rotation. He has never been mayor before, he is the only one on the committee who has not been mayor  and the past 2 years saw the other 2/3 republicans as mayor. He was promised this a year ago and was all set up for it.

Suddenly a movement clamoring for change hits Lakewood and he was THE person actively championing to change things and therefore posed a challenge to people who DO NOT WANT change for the better. He gets a mysterious phone call, some well thought out threats are made and suddenly and 'inexplicably' he pulls out of the running for the position (that he just announced twice publicly this week that he is taking).

I have a strong theory on how they threatened him......

Ray is a democrat who would normally not be considered at all due to being in the minority. I strongly believe that the negative blowback that this underhanded move caused will result in Coles not taking the seat in the end.....
oh, i didn;t even see the Coles thing
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on December 15, 2016, 10:22:50 AM
Mike De'lia would have been normal rotation. He has never been mayor before, he is the only one on the committee who has not been mayor  and the past 2 years saw the other 2/3 republicans as mayor. He was promised this a year ago and was all set up for it.

Suddenly a movement clamoring for change hits Lakewood and he was THE person actively championing to change things and therefore posed a challenge to people who DO NOT WANT change for the better. He gets a mysterious phone call, some well thought out threats are made and suddenly and 'inexplicably' he pulls out of the running for the position (that he just announced twice publicly this week that he is taking).

I have a strong theory on how they threatened him......

Ray is a democrat who would normally not be considered at all due to being in the minority. I strongly believe that the negative blowback that this underhanded move caused will result in Coles not taking the seat in the end.....
Perhaps a petition or some emails to Coles that he shouldn't take the position?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 15, 2016, 10:27:28 AM
Coles is a nobody yes man
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 15, 2016, 10:27:41 AM
Perhaps a petition or some emails to Coles that he shouldn't take the position?
That as well as pointing out that the republican club will throw Miller out. I'm pretty convinced that Coles won't end up as mayor but making some noise to enforce that can't hurt.

sensinger@njleg.org
rcoles@lakewoodnj.gov
mdelia@lakekwoodnj.gov
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 15, 2016, 10:29:28 AM
This plot is getting thicker and thicker.....

Mike De'lia announced publicly at the Republican club on Monday night that he will be the Mayor next year.
He announced it a 2nd time at the Parks Master plan subcommittee on Tuesday night. See here are 54:40 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ71Zyt-WDw)

There is some really backhanded stuff going on here in this attempt to stop the residents of Lakewood from seeing positive change.

Or maybe the unconfirmed report is simply untrue?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 15, 2016, 10:35:07 AM
Or maybe the unconfirmed report is simply untrue?
Fact: M Delia said that he will not be the mayor and that he is withdrawing from any interest in the position.
Fact: He did not simply change his mind out of the blue. 

He was clearly threatened with something and I have a pretty good idea of what it was.


Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on December 15, 2016, 12:09:55 PM
Fact: M Delia said that he will not be the mayor and that he is withdrawing from any interest in the position.
Fact: He did not simply change his mind out of the blue. 

He was clearly threatened with something and I have a pretty good idea of what it was.
When did he say that?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 15, 2016, 12:11:54 PM
When did he say that?
Today and yesterday. He told several people that but won't/can't explain the sudden about face within one day.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on December 15, 2016, 01:18:12 PM
Time to get the feds involved.

This town is being driven to the ground by corruption
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on December 15, 2016, 01:51:33 PM
Mike De'lia would have been normal rotation. He has never been mayor before, he is the only one on the committee who has not been mayor  and the past 2 years saw the other 2/3 republicans as mayor. He was promised this a year ago and was all set up for it.

Suddenly a movement clamoring for change hits Lakewood and he was THE person actively championing to change things and therefore posed a challenge to people who DO NOT WANT change for the better. He gets a mysterious phone call, some well thought out threats are made and suddenly and 'inexplicably' he pulls out of the running for the position (that he just announced twice publicly this week that he is taking).

I have a strong theory on how they threatened him......

Ray is a democrat who would normally not be considered at all due to being in the minority. I strongly believe that the negative blowback that this underhanded move caused will result in Coles not taking the seat in the end.....

we are listening
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 19, 2016, 09:34:47 PM
Some excerpts from an email we sent out today....sign up to our email listing by emailing 'Subscribe' to takebacklakewood@gmail.com .

Mayor for 2017 - As I'm sure you've heard, although Mike De'lia publicly announced at the Republican Club last Monday night and then again on video at the Parks and Open Space Masterplan subcommittee on Tuesday night, on Wednesday there was suddenly a call/meeting that convinced him to make an about face and say that he supports voting in Ray Coles as Mayor. While no one knows what was done/said to convince him to take such a drastic turn in just one day, one thing is clear - this decision was not made without coercion. It is clear that there are those who wish to punish Mike De'lia for saying that he wants to bring positive change to Lakewood in regard to overbuilding and the planning and zoning boards.

Ray Coles will only be voted in as Mayor if he gets a majority of the Township Committee to vote for him. Traditionally, the votes would keep the power within the controlling party. As there are 3 republicans on the Committee, to make Ray Coles the Mayor, Menashe Miller would need to break party lines and vote for a democrat. Ray needs Senator Bob Singer's blessing before taking such a drastic step. He must have made strong promises not to follow the growing clamor asking for change in order to gain confidence that he would not do that which Mike hoped to fix as Mayor.  Please email sensinger@njleg.org and copy mdelia@lakewoodnj.gov and rcoles@lakewoodnj.gov (and takebacklakewood@gmail.com). Express your disappointment that the Republican party may sanction voting in a Democratic Mayor simply to acquiesce to some who are afraid that Mike Delia may actually effectuate positive change in Lakewood.

In what was perhaps an intentional move, the Shopper this past week had an article saying that Mile Delia will be the mayor in 2017.

Planning Board - There will be a planning board meeting on Tuesday 12/20 at 6:00. See the agenda here  (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-12-20-at-6-00/).
A) Item #5 has a dangerous  loophole that builders are starting to use where they build a small street and call it a driveway. Then they are not required to build sidewalks or have the houses setback from the street at all.
B) Item #13 is for a 5 story building with NO parking on Clifton between 1st and second. The township committee refuses to change the ordinances which allows building with no parking in the B2 zone despite much urging and therefore we will see more and more 5 story buildings with no parking go up in the area. Interestingly, at the same meeting these is a resolution to deny HH's request for a 5 story building no parking in the B2. The reason is because it was discovered that the 2006 zoning map (albeit mistaken) lists everything west of Clifton Ave as being in the R-OP zone and NOT B-2. Therefore, he would be required to provide parking and this application was stopped until the township adopts the new zoning map. Item #13 is also West of Clifton but for some reason they are allowing the application to be on the agenda.
C) Item # 17 will continue the application for the controversial commercial shopping center at River/Chestnut. 

Township Committee meeting -  We have had excellent momentum with people coming out to the township committee meetings and speaking up asking for things to change. As a committee member it's obviously uncomfortable to hear all of the dissatisfaction especially for those who have no plans to address it. Therefore, the usual meeting last Thurs at 7:30 was cancelled. The new meeting and last meeting of 2016 will be this coming Thursday Dec 22nd. For your maximum inconvenience, the meeting will be at 3:00 PM in the hopes that people are too busy then to remind the committee that this was not just a passing fad and that people really do want them to actually do something and not just smile and nod.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 21, 2016, 10:05:37 AM
A state monitor is taking over the Ramapo/Spring Valley Building dept. Does Lakewood need a state monitor too?

http://www.vosizneias.com/257314/2016/12/20/rockland-county-ny-state-monitors-stepping-in-at-ramapo-spring-valley-building-departments/

While we all know that had poor results with the BOE, you would think that the Committee would be willing to take care of the problems on their own before it gets to that...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 21, 2016, 10:17:17 AM
A state monitor is taking over the Ramapo/Spring Valley Building dept. Does Lakewood need a state monitor too?

http://www.vosizneias.com/257314/2016/12/20/rockland-county-ny-state-monitors-stepping-in-at-ramapo-spring-valley-building-departments/

While we all know that had poor results with the BOE, you would think that the Committee would be willing to take care of the problems on their own before it gets to that...

Starting to root for the Rockland anti-semites is your quickest route to becoming a pariah.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 21, 2016, 10:21:01 AM
A state monitor is taking over the Ramapo/Spring Valley Building dept. Does Lakewood need a state monitor too?

http://www.vosizneias.com/257314/2016/12/20/rockland-county-ny-state-monitors-stepping-in-at-ramapo-spring-valley-building-departments/

While we all know that had poor results with the BOE, you would think that the Committee would be willing to take care of the problems on their own before it gets to that...
No state monitor!

You just need to run for mayor.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 21, 2016, 10:21:24 AM
Starting to root for the Rockland anti-semites is your quickest route to becoming a pariah.
While I'm not really familiar with the Rockland county situation, from what I've heard it's not just anti-semites who are upset about the overbuilding.

http://matzav.com/exclusive-ramapo-shuts-down-viola-condominium-development/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 21, 2016, 10:26:04 AM
No state monitor!

You just need to run for mayor.
A) The mayoral decision is currently being manipulated through threats etc.
B) I agree that a monitor may do more harm than good. That's why we'd love for the township committee to just  take the needs of the whole community into account and agree to work on fixing some of the problems on their own but unfortunately some have chosen to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that there's no problem.

Let's see how that approach bodes for them in the polls in the coming year(s).
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 21, 2016, 11:56:23 AM

Let's see how that approach bodes for them in the polls in the coming year(s).
Nothing will change in the polls if there is no viable, normal, candidate running against them
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on December 21, 2016, 12:16:12 PM
While I'm not really familiar with the Rockland county situation, from what I've heard it's not just anti-semites who are upset about the overbuilding.

http://matzav.com/exclusive-ramapo-shuts-down-viola-condominium-development/

You seem to not be familiar with Monsey
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: moko on December 21, 2016, 01:35:29 PM
You seem to not be familiar with Monsey
I think that's what he said...
While I'm not really familiar with the Rockland county situation, from what I've heard it's not just anti-semites who are upset about the overbuilding.

http://matzav.com/exclusive-ramapo-shuts-down-viola-condominium-development/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on December 21, 2016, 02:36:42 PM
I think that's what he said...
Even the suggestion is insulting and totally off the courts.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 22, 2016, 08:53:42 AM
There will be a Township Committee meeting (http://www.lakewoodnj.gov/images/db/admin-6230-Adg_twpcom_12_22_16.pdf) at 3:00 PM today Thursday December 22nd.

While it is difficult to attend in the middle of the day, if you are able to, please come to the meeting. Remind the Committeemen that while the public has been making their voice heard for the past few months, some on the committee have done nothing to even attempt to fix some of the problems that concern everyone.

~Tell the Committee that we want Mike Delia to be the mayor as previously planned.

~Tell the Committee that we actually want them to do something in the coming year to fix the planning and zoning boards and that we want them to work with the community to pass ordinances that will fix some of the faulty ordinances that are being abused by developers.

~Tell the committee that their current method of ignoring the problem and hoping we get tired out will not work. The traffic problem is getting worse and worse and we need to slow the building before Lakewood is completely gridlocked.

~Tell them that we want more than just smiles and head nodding - we want them to actually change something for the benefit of everyone in Lakewood.

NEW - Look out for our new communicated column that we will be starting in the Lakewood Weekly - coming to your mailbox this Motzei Shabbos.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 22, 2016, 03:26:09 PM
If you are interested in joining a whatsapp group for TBL - PM me.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 22, 2016, 09:13:10 PM
Seems like Rabbi Bender has a similar complaint.  Watch here from 5:00-8:00
https://vimeo.com/193202967

Wow! Says that its the developers who are knocking down a house breaking zoning laws and building 4 in its place that are the problem and cause the goyim not to like us.
Just got off the phone with Rabbi Yaakov Bender. He said that he has gotten tremendous positive feedback from all over on his speech. He is getting calls from people in other communities who are suffering from the overbuilding. He feels strongly that people need open space and that building too dense leads to all sorts of problems especially when kids get older. He said that he thinks at the next Agudah Convention this should be the main topic of discussion.



Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on December 25, 2016, 01:11:03 AM
Just got off the phone with Rabbi Yaakov Bender. He said that he has gotten tremendous positive feedback from all over on his speech. He is getting calls from people in other communities who are suffering from the overbuilding. He feels strongly that people need open space and that building too dense leads to all sorts of problems especially when kids get older. He said that he thinks at the next Agudah Convention this should be the main topic of discussion.




can we get a post 12/22 meeting update? how'd it go?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on December 25, 2016, 08:01:34 AM
can we get a post 12/22 meeting update? how'd it go?
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2016/12/video-lakewood-committee-meeting-122216.html?m=1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on December 31, 2016, 11:53:36 PM
Issue 1 in last week's Lakewood Weekly (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/New-Column-in-the-Lakewood-Weekly/)

Issue 2 in today's Lakewood Weekly (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Issue-2-in-The-Lakewood-Weekly)

This coming week -

Monday January 2nd:
11:00 - Reception at the Municipal Building 231 3rd St.
12:00 - Township Committee Re-organization meeting
Who will the mayor be in the end? Will there be a unanimous vote as there always is? 
Who will be appointed to the Planning Board to fill the retired Chairman's seat?
Who will the new appointees to the Planning and Zoning Boards be?
Will we hear words of wisdom from our committeemen at the meeting on how they intend to respond to the calls of the public?
What will the new mayor say as to his plans for the current year?

There will be people there publicly questioning the reasons behind Mike Delia's mysterious change of mind on wanting to be mayor. As of now it is up in the air as to what will actually play out.....  Please come to the meeting and watch the spectacle unfold live.....

7:30-8:30 - Lakewood Republican Club monthly meeting at Strand Theater corner of 4th and Clifton.
If you want to get involved and have an opportunity to meet those in the Lakewood political scene and talk about the winds of change, come join the Lakewood Republican Club. A $10 fee will sign you up as a member for the year.

Tuesday January 3rd
6:00 - Planning Board meeting
Agenda (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/planning-board-agenda-1317.html)
A new Chairman will be appointed and several new members will attend their first meeting.

Cedarbridge:
One of the items in the plan review section is a retail shopping center for Cedarbridge (AKA BMG) with 197K SQFT (and another 197K SQFT basement) (yes that's huge) and 877 parking spaces across from Pine River Village at the corner of Pine St and Ave of the Americas. Assuming that the basements are just storage and not more retail, while the parking is sufficient, it gives you an idea of the traffic that this will generate crippling Pine St even further.  It will be made up of 13 retail buildings, 2 pavilions, a stage and a playground. See here for more info (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sp-2218-owner-township-of-lakewood.html).

Another plan review item is for a 75,000 SQFT office building and daycare center in Cedarbridge which is being (sold by Cedarbridge?) built by a different entity. See here for more details. (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sp-2220-boulevard-of-americas-owner.html)

See here for a treasure trove of articles and links related to Cedarbridge (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/search/label/Cederbridge). While initial plans were for a high tech corporate business center to be built bringing large global companies to Lakewood and many jobs and tax dollars, at this point it looks like we'll be looking at a lot of shopping centers (much heavier traffic), some office buildings, (and possibly housing??) all on land that was given away for free. It is noteworthy that in the past few Township Committee meetings there were some resolutions related to Cedarbridge.

Planning board seat:
Earlier this week, we alerted several committeemen to the fact that one of the members of the Planning Board (J. Sussman) does not even live in Lakewood. He was Mayor Miller's appointee in 2014 and stayed on the board in 2015. IN 2016, although he is away in college in Boston, he was inexplicably appointed to a 4 year seat on the board. In the past year, he was never sworn in and he did not attend a single meeting. If his name sounds familiar it is because in the recent tragic death of a toddler, he was the one who was reported as having dinner with Mayor Miller in Boston (http://www.app.com/story/news/crime/jersey-mayhem/2016/12/09/out-tragedy-toddlers-death-unity-lakewood/95213674/) when the news was communicated and he set up the go fund me page. While I'm sure he's a great guy, I don't see why someone who is in college in Boston was reappointed to a new 4 year term in Jan 2016 and since some of the committeemen were not aware of it he would have remained on it. The theory is that he may have been reappointed in Jan 2016 simply to avoid letting others get a seat on the board....Now that we alerted them his seat will hopefully be reassigned to someone who actually lives in Lakewood.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on January 02, 2017, 12:07:28 PM
Nu, who's the Mayor?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on January 02, 2017, 12:30:48 PM
Coles.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 02, 2017, 12:59:14 PM
We must give a lot of credit to Akerman for voting no. He was under immense pressure from the establishment to vote yes and smile and pretend to go along with this scheme.

They are plenty mad that he voted no and we need to support him for being willing to show that he won't just go with their flow.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 02, 2017, 01:02:19 PM
We must give a lot of credit to Akerman for voting no. He was under immense pressure from the establishment to vote yes and smile and pretend to go along with this scheme.

They are plenty mad that he voted no and we need to support him for being willing to show that he won't just go with their flow.
But it's only one vote.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on January 02, 2017, 01:11:38 PM
We must give a lot of credit to Akerman for voting no. He was under immense pressure from the establishment to vote yes and smile and pretend to go along with this scheme.

They are plenty mad that he voted no and we need to support him for being willing to show that he won't just go with their flow.

But D'Elia voted yes, why?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 02, 2017, 01:12:55 PM
But it's only one vote.
Correct. The point is that in the past it was always unanimous and they like to pretend that everyone is happy with the decisions and that there were no backroom dealings. He was willing to stand up for what's right and vote no.

The fact that the establishment is so bothered by it should tell you the significance...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 02, 2017, 01:13:47 PM
But D'Elia voted yes, why?
And, the million dollar question is: What was Delia threatened with??? He won't say but like I've said, there are some ideas floating around.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on January 02, 2017, 01:14:17 PM
But D'Elia voted yes, why?
He rather make believe he did it graciously.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 02, 2017, 01:17:16 PM
He rather make believe he did it graciously.
Correct. Mike is pretending that he is fine with this....

Ultimately, when you're threatened, you need to play along or else.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 02, 2017, 01:26:44 PM
In most towns this would be grounds for both Mike and Menashe to be kicked out of the Republican club. Then again - this is not most towns!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 02, 2017, 06:32:58 PM

Monday January 2nd:
7:30-8:30 - Lakewood Republican Club monthly meeting at Strand Theater corner of 4th and Clifton.

This meeting IS NOT tonight, it is next Monday Jan 9th. I mistakenly wrote it as tonight.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on January 02, 2017, 07:24:43 PM
Why can't it be that D'elia was threatened that he won't be endorsed by the Vaad when he runs for reelection if he insists on being mayor. Maybe he values his seat on the committee more that fighting a losing battle for his rights.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 03, 2017, 11:30:11 AM
Yesterday's Township Meeting

Excellent speeches. Akerman got many rounds of applause for voting his conscience.





Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on January 03, 2017, 11:46:09 AM
Yesterday's Township Meeting

Excellent speeches. Akerman got many rounds of applause for voting his conscience.


I think we should try Lipa for the national anthem next time
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on January 03, 2017, 09:09:04 PM
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c59383e330/VID-20170103-WA0095.mp4 (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c59383e330/VID-20170103-WA0095.mp4)

What's this about?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 03, 2017, 09:21:01 PM
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c59383e330/VID-20170103-WA0095.mp4 (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c59383e330/VID-20170103-WA0095.mp4)

What's this about?
BMG had an application to build a 200,000 SQFT shopping center with 13 buildings (and 200,000 sqft basement) with 877 parking spots across from Pine River Village at the corner of Pine and Ave of the Estates. The man being told off is a member of the Vaad who was representing BMG on the application. Several dozen residents of Pine River Village attended the meeting and a lawyer was hired to oppose the application. This was just the plan review meeting, the public hearing will take place in a few weeks.

See here for more info
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sp-2218-owner-township-of-lakewood.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
BMG had an application to build a 200,000 SQFT shopping center with 13 buildings (and 200,000 sqft basement) with 877 parking spots across from Pine River Village at the corner of Pine and Ave of the Estates. The man being told off is a member of the Vaad who was representing BMG on the application. Several dozen residents of Pine River Village attended the meeting and a lawyer was hired to oppose the application. This was just the plan review meeting, the public hearing will take place in a few weeks.

See here for more info
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sp-2218-owner-township-of-lakewood.html
Please clarify. Is this land currently owned by BMG commercial arm, or someone else?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 03, 2017, 10:43:47 PM
Please clarify. Is this land currently owned by BMG commercial arm, or someone else?
seems like it's still township owned until development is complete...not sure how that works
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 03, 2017, 10:58:59 PM
seems like it's still township owned until development is complete...not sure how that works
In 2000, Lakewood Township signed an option contract allowing Cedarbridge to have 240 acres for free since they were going to develop it into a hi-tech business center. The basis was because the cost to develop the area was supposedly equal to the cost to develop it. http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/legal-documents.html

Since then there have been several extensions and changes. The hi-tech center never materialized. Land was sold to Somerset to build Pine River Village and eventually Somerset walk for $9 Million. While some argued that sold land should profit the township, the profits go to BMG since they were given the rights to develop the property. See here http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/links-on-cederbridge.html for many links to articles on the subject.

This plan for a shopping center of gargantuan proportions is definitely not the intended use and many people from Pine River Village and Somerset Walk plan to oppose it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2017, 11:14:37 PM
In 2000, Lakewood Township signed an option contract allowing Cedarbridge to have 240 acres for free since they were going to develop it into a hi-tech business center. The basis was because the cost to develop the area was supposedly equal to the cost to develop it. http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/legal-documents.html

Since then there have been several extensions and changes. The hi-tech center never materialized. Land was sold to Somerset to build Pine River Village and eventually Somerset walk for $9 Million. While some argued that sold land should profit the township, the profits go to BMG since they were given the rights to develop the property. See here http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/links-on-cederbridge.html for many links to articles on the subject.

This plan for a shopping center of gargantuan proportions is definitely not the intended use and many people from Pine River Village and Somerset Walk plan to oppose it.
Still no answer to the question though. - who currently owns the land of the shopping center?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 03, 2017, 11:22:19 PM
Still no answer to the question though. - who currently owns the land of the shopping center?
Lakewood Township owns it. It's possible that a vote of 3 members could even revoke the contract. But as things stand now, BMG has the rights to the land free which is transferred to them in pieces as they choose to develop it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 03, 2017, 11:25:59 PM
As someone commented on HV, maybe this is all a ploy to turn the whole think into residential....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 03, 2017, 11:31:59 PM
Lakewood Township owns it. It's possible that a vote of 3 members could even revoke the contract. But as things stand now, BMG has the rights to the land free which is transferred to them in pieces as they choose to develop it.
No one is voting so fast to revoke millions from BMG... Not even your hero AA
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on January 03, 2017, 11:46:55 PM
No one is voting so fast to revoke millions from BMG... Not even your hero AA
When someone tries to pull "you should feel guilty" "im ain kemach ain torah" and you're taking away money from torah c"v No one is voting so fast...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 12:10:51 AM
I'm not quite sure taking 50 acres and making a shopping village is such a bad thing for the area. The alternative would probably be to sell the land off for development which would probably mean another 500-1000 units and a couple of thousand additional cars in Lakewood. The hundreds of parking spaces proposed would service EXISTING cars not put additional cars on the roads. I'd be very happy if the entire rest of Lakewood went retail so no new houses would be built. True the Township could have sold the land to developers for money but in the long term the retail space will generate ongoing tax revenue while the houses that would be built would have been a wash or more likely a net loss due to special needs and other services as we have seen with all of the new growth in town. In short are we better off with retail or with a whole lot of new construction? I think the former...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 12:12:29 AM
I'm not quite sure taking 50 acres and making a shopping village is such a bad thing for the area. The alternative would probably be to sell the land off for development which would probably mean another 500-1000 units and a couple of thousand additional cars in Lakewood. The hundreds of parking spaces proposed would service EXISTING cars not put additional cars on the roads. I'd be very happy if the entire rest of Lakewood went retail so no new houses would be built. True the Township could have sold the land to developers for money but in the long term the retail space will generate ongoing tax revenue while the houses that would be built would have been a wash or more likely a net loss due to special needs and other services as we have seen with all of the new growth in town. In short are we better off with retail or with a whole lot of new construction? I think the former...
It was supposed to be commercial which would be much better than retail.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 12:18:34 AM
It was supposed to be commercial which would be much better than retail.
They tried to market to commercial for 10 years and it went nowhere. There was no interest. That leaves the other two options....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: joeberg on January 04, 2017, 12:27:55 AM
I'm not quite sure taking 50 acres and making a shopping village is such a bad thing for the area. The alternative would probably be to sell the land off for development which would probably mean another 500-1000 units and a couple of thousand additional cars in Lakewood. The hundreds of parking spaces proposed would service EXISTING cars not put additional cars on the roads. I'd be very happy if the entire rest of Lakewood went retail so no new houses would be built. True the Township could have sold the land to developers for money but in the long term the retail space will generate ongoing tax revenue while the houses that would be built would have been a wash or more likely a net loss due to special needs and other services as we have seen with all of the new growth in town. In short are we better off with retail or with a whole lot of new construction? I think the former...
+1 it's time to stop being blindly anti. The best way to dig our way out of the tax revenue crunch is to have properties that pay taxes without requiring services. Now it remains to be seen if this mall will pay full value property taxes, but that's another conversation. ;)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 12:44:26 AM
Agreed. Let's focus on the Tax revenue which is a much more cogent argument. I seem to remember a couple of retail buildings in downtown Lakewood getting 20 year tax abatements a few years back. I think that kind of thing would be a much more legitimate concern...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 12:45:37 AM
I'm not quite sure taking 50 acres and making a shopping village is such a bad thing for the area. The alternative would probably be to sell the land off for development which would probably mean another 500-1000 units and a couple of thousand additional cars in Lakewood. The hundreds of parking spaces proposed would service EXISTING cars not put additional cars on the roads. I'd be very happy if the entire rest of Lakewood went retail so no new houses would be built. True the Township could have sold the land to developers for money but in the long term the retail space will generate ongoing tax revenue while the houses that would be built would have been a wash or more likely a net loss due to special needs and other services as we have seen with all of the new growth in town. In short are we better off with retail or with a whole lot of new construction? I think the former...

What tax revenue?
The whole project is tax free for 35 years.

And that isn't the right place for shopping centers.
If you drive on pine, most of the time you can keep you car in park.
The traffic is already insane. 1000 cars driving in and out of there will tremendously ruin the QOL of anyone that has to drive or live near Pine. Putting a wedding hall is the cherry in top so it can be used non-stop.

Adding 250k square feet of retail is NOT the answer.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: akivak on January 04, 2017, 12:51:04 AM
What tax revenue?
The whole project is tax free for 35 years.

And that isn't the right place for shopping centers.
If you drive on pine, most of the time you can keep you car in park.
The traffic is already insane. 1000 cars driving in and out of there will tremendously ruin the QOL of anyone that has to drive or live near Pine. Putting a wedding hall is the cherry in top so it can be used non-stop.

Adding 250k square feet of retail is NOT the answer.
Have a better idea?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 12:53:47 AM
They tried to market to commercial for 10 years and it went nowhere. There was no interest. That leaves the other two options....

Have a better idea?

If they have nothing to do with it then give it back to the township!
The deal is NOT as agreed upon and should be null and void!

I agree that there are 2 other options.

1. Leave it vacant so the debilitating traffic situation on Pine doesn't get worse
2. Turn into a park so kids have somewhere to play and adults have somewhere to walk
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 04, 2017, 12:55:28 AM


+1 it's time to stop being blindly anti. The best way to dig our way out of the tax revenue crunch is to have properties that pay taxes without requiring services. Now it remains to be seen if this mall will pay full value property taxes, but that's another conversation. ;)
No chance BMG is paying property tax

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: akivak on January 04, 2017, 12:58:57 AM
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c8f10ad476/1_124136739676623071.pdf (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c8f10ad476/1_124136739676623071.pdf)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 01:01:59 AM
+1 it's time to stop being blindly anti.

Talk about the blind leading the blind.
The town is falling apart in front of your eyes and the people responsible for the most pressing issues are getting a free pass. The developers don't need your excuses when most of the township officials are anyways gonna do whatever they want.

You only need to go back as far as yesterday to see a democratic get elected mayor because the republican wasn't a yes man.

#DrainTheSwamp
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 01:06:44 AM
If they have nothing to do with it then give it back to the township!
The deal is NOT as agreed upon and should be null and void!

I agree that there are 2 other options.

1. Leave it vacant so the debilitating traffic situation on Pine doesn't get worse
2. Turn into a park so kids have somewhere to play and adults have somewhere to walk
I would love to leave the whole rest of Lakewood vacant or turned into parks but you and I know that isn't going to happen so let's be realistic and realize that just as in the rest of Lakewood if it's not retail it's going to be residential with twice the headaches. It's just not pragmatic and in fact is counterproductive to wishfully think that there's going to be a giant vacant area/park just sitting there forever. It would be a lot more productive to look at the reality and advocate for the least impactful solution rather than to call for unrealistic options. It feels good and I'd be the first to sign on to more open space but that ain't gonna happen....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 01:12:15 AM
I would love to leave the whole rest of Lakewood vacant or turned into parks but you and I know that isn't going to happen so let's be realistic and realize that just as in the rest of Lakewood if it's not retail it's going to be residential with twice the headaches. It's just not pragmatic and in fact is counterproductive to wishfully think that there's going to be a giant vacant area/park just sitting there forever. It would be a lot more productive to look at the reality and advocate for the least impactful solution rather than to call for unrealistic options. It feels good and I'd be the first to sign on to more open space but that ain't gonna happen....

Lmao.
It's not pragmatic because you resigned yourself to live in a swamp. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I dream of a day when Swampwood starts resembling Lakewood.

No need to resort to picking poisons when we have the ability to do something positive for once.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: nucheiner on January 04, 2017, 01:19:05 AM
Update? What happened with the cedarbridge application at the meeting?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 01:23:23 AM
It's very simple: Convince us that it is realistic that turning the land back to the township won't result in residential development and we are all ears. If the plan is that we are going to manage to pull the plug on all residential development throughout Lakewood, this property included, then that is a fervent wish, not a plan. It's not called being resigned, it's called being practicle, and it is a much more effective strategy...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 02:01:56 AM
It's very simple: Convince us that it is realistic that turning the land back to the township won't result in residential development and we are all ears. If the plan is that we are going to manage to pull the plug on all residential development throughout Lakewood, this property included, then that is a fervent wish, not a plan. It's not called being resigned, it's called being practicle, and it is a much more effective strategy...

No one said anything about stopping all development in Lakewood. But there are places which are overdone and cannot be built no more. Pine is one of those places. Route 9 is another. You can't even dream about infrastructure upgrades that they're promising for the past 20 years like widening the 9. You need to oppose every project that will harm residents.

I don't mean this in such a bad way. But sitting at home and saying it's not practical to fight these applications is the mentality of a loser.

P.S. The mentality of being okay with being screwed instead of totally screwed, is part of their strategy. They throw up the biggest, most egregious project they can think of. If it gets approved. Hooray. If it looks like it won't get approved, come in and save the day by making a slightly smaller project that screws everyone just a drop less, and now they are the angels we need to be praising.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 06:36:55 AM
They tried to market to commercial for 10 years and it went nowhere. There was no interest. That leaves the other two options....
As long as it's developed properly taking into account traffic lights this is the best possible outcome.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 06:38:23 AM
No one said anything about stopping all development in Lakewood. But there are places which are overdone and cannot be built no more. Pine is one of those places. Route 9 is another. You can't even dream about infrastructure upgrades that they're promising for the past 20 years like widening the 9. You need to oppose every project that will harm residents.

I don't mean this in such a bad way. But sitting at home and saying it's not practical to fight these applications is the mentality of a loser.

P.S. The mentality of being okay with being screwed instead of totally screwed, is part of their strategy. They throw up the biggest, most egregious project they can think of. If it gets approved. Hooray. If it looks like it won't get approved, come in and save the day by making a slightly smaller project that screws everyone just a drop less, and now they are the angels we need to be praising.
This area has access to New Hampshire, cedarbridge and pine. I think that it was meant to be developed, long before anyone moved in to pine. So it's hard to protest.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 06:51:08 AM
When it was given in 2000, it was in a desolate area and the plan was for hi tech commercial that would bring high paying jobs to the area. A few years ago they switched it to also allow retail. Pine st is now a hot mess every day and yes, they are the ones who sold land for $9M for Pine River Village and Somerset Walk.

In the current environment, a shopping center of this size does not work. Of course housing is worse but they are not allowed to build housing there. So what should they do? Stick to the original plan and build commercial office buildings.  Can't find tenants? So don't develop it! They didn't pay anything for it! If they can develop it as they promised it's one thing. If they can't then don't do anything with it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on January 04, 2017, 07:00:45 AM
When it was given in 2000, it was in a desolate area and the plan was for hi tech commercial that would bring high paying jobs to the area. A few years ago they switched it to also allow retail. Pine st is now a hot mess every day and yes, they are the ones who sold land for $9M for Pine River Village and Somerset Walk.

In the current environment, a shopping center of this size does not work. Of course housing is worse but they are not allowed to build housing there. So what should they do? Stick to the original plan and build commercial office buildings.  Can't find tenants? So don't develop it! They didn't pay anything for it! If they can develop it as they promised it's one thing. If they can't then don't do anything with it.
+1,

But why not go industrial? There's a company called Sudler Cos. that's been building a few projects recently in New Hampshire area maybe they would be interested in developing it.

Edit: Whatever happened with YS's lawsuit?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 07:14:53 AM
When it was given in 2000, it was in a desolate area and the plan was for hi tech commercial that would bring high paying jobs to the area. A few years ago they switched it to also allow retail. Pine st is now a hot mess every day and yes, they are the ones who sold land for $9M for Pine River Village and Somerset Walk.

In the current environment, a shopping center of this size does not work. Of course housing is worse but they are not allowed to build housing there. So what should they do? Stick to the original plan and build commercial office buildings.  Can't find tenants? So don't develop it! They didn't pay anything for it! If they can develop it as they promised it's one thing. If they can't then don't do anything with it.
תמות נפשי עם פלישטים is definitely one approach.
But not likely to succeed.
Why not try to work and get concessions regarding traffic lights on Cedarbridge, and changing the one on pine to actually work for more than 3 secs? Would help the entire areas flow?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 07:51:43 AM
תמות נפשי עם פלישטים is definitely one approach.
But not likely to succeed.
Why not try to work and get concessions regarding traffic lights on Cedarbridge, and changing the one on pine to actually work for more than 3 secs? Would help the entire areas flow?

I'm quite suspicious of your motives especially considering your post count.
This not a case of Tamus Nafshi. Who the heck is getting hurt if it's not developed to be a huge shopping mall or residential development? That's right, absolutely no one besides BMG who didn't pay a penny for the land!

All the traffic lights and infrastructure upgrades *might* help to make the current situation normal. But it sure ain't gonna handle another 1k cars pulling in and out of pine. Besides, why is infrastructure upgrades tied into the development? Why can't they fix the insane traffic that's on pine right now if they know exactly what they need to do? Because infrastructure upgrades are always sold to the community to get projects pushed through. And that's it.. Lakewood will never fix the roads unless some developer can get insanely rich along the way.

So stop with your propaganda nonsense. Just take your check and be quiet, you don't need to post here.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 07:58:52 AM
I'm quite suspicious of your motives especially considering your post count.
This not a case of Tamus Nafshi. Who the heck is getting hurt if it's not developed to be a huge shopping mall or residential development? That's right, absolutely no one besides BMG who didn't pay a penny for the land!

All the traffic lights and infrastructure upgrades *might* help to make the current situation normal. But it sure ain't gonna handle another 1k cars pulling in and out of pine.

So stop with your propaganda nonsense. Just take your check and be quiet, you don't need to post here.
Be suspicious all you want.
I take no paycheck from anyone. I was likely in Lakewood for many years longer than anyone here.
I live in the neighborhood, I am not naive about the situation with the traffic. But if anyone thinks that they are going to have a bit of success standing up to every development, they will get no where.
You can work with the system and get concessions. But I don't see how you will stop all development until the traffic situation is solved. It's not solvable so simply.
Right now you have a voting bloc that will ensure that the vaad's picks are elected and reelected. If you show the vaad that you can be reasonable, you have a better chance of them listening to you.
If you show the vaad that you are willing to make every development the Alamo, I don't see how you will succeed.

Two years ago, they were still talking about making that area housing. Illegal or not, that is what they were saying.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 08:11:43 AM


Edit: Whatever happened with YS's lawsuit?
it is pending a ruling from an appellate court
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 08:40:19 AM
Be suspicious all you want.
I take no paycheck from anyone. I was likely in Lakewood for many years longer than anyone here.
I live in the neighborhood, I am not naive about the situation with the traffic. But if anyone thinks that they are going to have a bit of success standing up to every development, they will get no where.
You can work with the system and get concessions. But I don't see how you will stop all development until the traffic situation is solved. It's not solvable so simply.
Right now you have a voting bloc that will ensure that the vaad's picks are elected and reelected. If you show the vaad that you can be reasonable, you have a better chance of them listening to you.
If you show the vaad that you are willing to make every development the Alamo, I don't see how you will succeed.

Two years ago, they were still talking about making that area housing. Illegal or not, that is what they were saying.
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 08:42:33 AM
We don't negotiate with terrorists.
Hence תמות נפשי עם פלישטים. We will get nothing accomplished.
We don't have enough votes to vote the committee out, and if we aren't willing to negotiate with them, we will get nowhere
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 08:44:17 AM
Hence תמות נפשי עם פלישטים. We will get nothing accomplished.
We don't have enough votes to vote the committee out, and if we aren't willing to negotiate with them, we will get nowhere
So next time there is an election with a strong candidate running against the vaad puppet, who will you vote for?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 08:48:07 AM
So next time there is an election with a strong candidate running against the vaad puppet, who will you vote for?
Haven't seen a real strong candidate, but yes, I'd vote (and have voted for the last few cycles) against the vaad.
Who do you have in mind? Start pushing them now.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 08:52:32 AM
Haven't seen a real strong candidate, but yes, I'd vote (and have voted for the last few cycles) against the vaad.
Who do you have in mind? Start pushing them now.
Based on your few posts and the fact that you clearly came here just to troll for the mafia, I call BS. Something tells me your name may even be kotler. You are clearly a member of the mafia.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 08:57:29 AM
Based on your last few posts I call BS and something tells me your name may even be kotler. You are clearly a member of the mafia.
Lol.
I don't think kotler could quote pesukim in Navi, he's a litvak.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 08:59:27 AM
Lol.
I don't think kotler could quote pesukim in Navi, he's a litvak.
I am as pissed as you guys are about the situation. I think we should continue to show up at every meeting and protest when it makes sense.
I just think that this particular project is not as bad as the alternative that they were originally proposing recently, to build housing there. So take the win.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 04, 2017, 09:00:45 AM
Lol.
I don't think kotler could quote pesukim in Navi, he's a litvak.
Cut the shtick, its kind of obvious that you stand to benefit from this and you joined the forums just to advocate for yourself over the needs of the Klal. And, no, BMG is not the Klal. And definitely not the VAAD.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:00:46 AM
I am as pissed as you guys are about the situation. I think we should continue to show up at every meeting and protest when it makes sense.
I just think that this particular project is not as bad as the alternative that they were originally proposing recently, to build housing there. So take the win.
We are dealing with people who will make a swamp flower "disappear" so that they can develop vine St. So they have no issues finding ways around the laws
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:02:40 AM
Cut the shtick, its kind of obvious that you stand to benefit from this and you joined the forums just to advocate for yourself over the needs of the Klal. And, no, BMG is not the Klal. And definitely not the VAAD.
You people are so suspicious these days. Tinfoil hats and all.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 09:08:27 AM
Please stop feeding the trolls
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:10:22 AM
I am as pissed as you guys are about the situation. I think we should continue to show up at every meeting and protest when it makes sense.
I just think that this particular project is not as bad as the alternative that they were originally proposing recently, to build housing there. So take the win.
That was never and will never be approved so that is not relevant.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on January 04, 2017, 09:10:40 AM
Popping.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:13:53 AM
That was never and will never be approved so that is not relevant.
Worse has happened in Lakewood, what makes you so sure?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:17:15 AM
Worse has happened in Lakewood, what makes you so sure?
Times have changed. A year ago this Cedarbridge  Mall would have sailed through unnoticed until building started
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 04, 2017, 09:19:14 AM
Definitions:

Needed housing-what is built before I buy a house.

Overcrowding-what is built after I buy a house.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 09:20:07 AM
I'm quite suspicious of your motives especially considering your post count.
This not a case of Tamus Nafshi. Who the heck is getting hurt if it's not developed to be a huge shopping mall or residential development? That's right, absolutely no one besides BMG who didn't pay a penny for the land!

All the traffic lights and infrastructure upgrades *might* help to make the current situation normal. But it sure ain't gonna handle another 1k cars pulling in and out of pine. Besides, why is infrastructure upgrades tied into the development? Why can't they fix the insane traffic that's on pine right now if they know exactly what they need to do? Because infrastructure upgrades are always sold to the community to get projects pushed through. And that's it.. Lakewood will never fix the roads unless some developer can get insanely rich along the way.

So stop with your propaganda nonsense. Just take your check and be quiet, you don't need to post here.
Just curious. Although I live in the general proximity I don't use pine itself regularly though I have experienced the backup on several occasions. As I understand it the backup peaks in the morning when it's time for school/ Seder and again in the evening. Would this coincide with peak retail traffic? Or would the busiest times tend to be outside of peak retail traffic?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:22:28 AM
Definitions:

Needed housing-what is built before I buy a house.

Overcrowding-what is built after I buy a house.
Lol
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:25:12 AM
Times have changed. A year ago this Cedarbridge  Mall would have sailed through unnoticed until building started/
I'm not as confident as you. If I knew that you were right, I'd say fight it out so that only commercial office is built there. But I don't think you are correct. I'd think that they will push through housing if they can't get anything else approved.
There just isn't enough demand for that entire plot of land to be commercial.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on January 04, 2017, 09:30:33 AM
Definitions:

Needed housing-what is built before I buy a house.

Overcrowding-what is built after I buy a house.

Winner winner chicken dinner....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:31:25 AM
I'm not as confident as you. If I knew that you were right, I'd say fight it out so that only commercial office is built there. But I don't think you are correct. I'd think that they will push through housing if they can't get anything else approved.
There just isn't enough demand for that entire plot of land to be commercial.
Well I am confident. I am in touch with hundreds of frum residents and a network of thousands of non jewish seniors. I know that there are thousands of frum residents that are fed up with the overbuilding and that want something to change. The Committee is under immense pressure and I know that we can easily carry the votes in the coming elections if need be.

If they attempted to switch to residential this town would be on wheels and it would never get passed in this environment. If they can't fill it with commercial, would it be so terrible if some of it was left empty? Again, they didn't pay anything for it!!

An idea that is being floated is to turn a section of it into a school zone. While that would not provide tax ratables, schools do need to be built somewhere and centering them in one place would alleviate the need to squeeze them into various residential neighborhoods. The only problem with this would be the traffic on Pine (which is a significant problem no matter what is built there but not so bad if it is commercial).
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:32:49 AM
Definitions:

Needed housing-what is built before I buy a house.

Overcrowding-what is built after I buy a house.
Go ahead and build housing. Within the confines of the zoning laws. In the places zoned for housing. With one house per lot.  There is no housing shortage whatsoever there is currently a glut of houses and developers can't seem to sell the existing houses. Toms River and Jackson opened up a whole new world and people are running there.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 09:33:11 AM
There already is a tractor and AtoZ cleanup vehicles on this mall lot. seems they are moving along regardless
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:36:56 AM
So the question we all need to answer is:

Why are we allowing all of this density and spot zoning to take place? Is this a natural process where fairly elected committee members appointed impartial Board members who make impartial decisions? Are they simply looking at the applications and coming to reasonable legal conclusions to approve them? While initially we thought this may simply be capitalism at it's best, that is far from the case here.

The system has been so manipulated over the years and abused. We are trying to bring back a mediocum of fairness to the process. The current 'vision' that some have for Lakewood (225,000 residents by 2030) is simply not living in reality. Picture Lakewood with double the current residents!!

Oh we'll upgrade the infrastructure. We'll dualize route 9. Boro Park does it why can't we?
When all of the infrastructure is upgraded and we have a grid and all of our current traffic is resolved get back to me and we'll talk about how to further develop Lakewood.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:38:56 AM
Well I am confident. I am in touch with hundreds of frum residents and a network of thousands of seniors. I know that there are thousands of frum residents that are fed up with the overbuilding and that want something to change. The Committee is under immense pressure and I know that we can easily carry the votes in the coming elections if need be.

If they attempted to switch to residential this town would be on wheels and it would never get passed in this environment. If they can't fill it with commercial, would it be so terrible if some of it was left empty? Again, they didn't pay anything for it!!

An idea that is being floated is to turn a section of it into a school zone. While that would not provide tax ratables, schools do need to be built somewhere and centering them in one place would alleviate the need to squeeze them into various residential neighborhoods. The only problem with this would be the traffic on Pine (which is a significant problem no matter what is built there but not so bad if it is commercial).
I've been in this town for over 25 years. I've seen protests and movements before. Excuse me for being skeptical.

I don't see why a shopping plaza with adequate parking and proper traffic lights will increase traffic so much.
Every shopping plaza in town that has issues is either due to lack of parking (like cedarbridge where Marcy's is) or improper traffic planning (like the former ShopRite/current Glatt Gourmet).
Plan a plaza correctly, and traffic should flow.
I think we should fight the planning board to make sure that each intersection from the Ave of the States has a functioning traffic light, properly timed, and the traffic issue will be nominal.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 09:45:54 AM
Well I am confident. I am in touch with hundreds of frum residents and a network of thousands of non jewish seniors. I know that there are thousands of frum residents that are fed up with the overbuilding and that want something to change. The Committee is under immense pressure and I know that we can easily carry the votes in the coming elections if need be.

If they attempted to switch to residential this town would be on wheels and it would never get passed in this environment. If they can't fill it with commercial, would it be so terrible if some of it was left empty? Again, they didn't pay anything for it!!

An idea that is being floated is to turn a section of it into a school zone. While that would not provide tax ratables, schools do need to be built somewhere and centering them in one place would alleviate the need to squeeze them into various residential neighborhoods. The only problem with this would be the traffic on Pine (which is a significant problem no matter what is built there but not so bad if it is commercial).
Please do NOT suggest a school zone. Ask any of the Orchos Chaim/Cheder parents what Vasser Ave looks like in the morning; it makes pine st look like the Autobahn...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:46:07 AM
I've been in this town for over 25 years. I've seen protests and movements before. Excuse me for being skeptical.
Most previous movements were one individual. This is a grassroots effort that has stirred up thousands simply by providing information.

Ask anyone in public office, there has never been as much information and pressure as there is right now.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 09:48:10 AM
Please do NOT suggest a school zone. Ask any of the Orchos Chaim/Cheder parents what Vasser Ave looks like in the morning; it makes pine st look like the Autobahn...
The advantage of a school zone would allow a bus to stop in just a few places and pickup 50 kids and drop them off in one central place. It would greatly decrease the busses stopping all over town.  I agree that the traffic is a valid concern. There would be significant bussing advantages though.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:48:25 AM
Please do NOT suggest a school zone. Ask any of the Orchos Chaim/Cheder parents what Vasser Ave looks like in the morning; it makes pine st look like the Autobahn...
School zone only works if we have bussing. We won't have bussing if the schools are located close to housing. Maybe move all the schools to the border of the district, that way we have funding.
I'm only half joking.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 09:48:43 AM
If everyone is so passionately against it, let them build it and everyone boycott it. Let's watch it rot.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
Most previous movements were one individual. This is a grassroots effort that has stirred up thousands simply by providing information.

Ask anyone in public office, there has never been as much information and pressure as there is right now.
I'm not putting down what you've accomplished and I support that. I just think that this particular project is one where we can have a good outcome.
I just don't equate a shopping center to the spot zoning and the duplexes. I think those are a much larger issue and we should focus a lot more energy in shutting that down.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 09:51:47 AM
If everyone is so passionately against it, let them build it and everyone boycott it. Let's watch it rot.
Boycott will only work if you can stop your wife from shopping there
May actually be safer to lay down in front of the bulldozers than to try that.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 09:55:12 AM
Right now you have a voting bloc that will ensure that the vaad's picks are elected and reelected.

This is where you are wrong.
Now that the seniors are getting heavily affected don't think that the Vaad will have such an easy time anymore.

Lakewood hasn't voted with the Vaad every single time either.
For example: http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2009/11/governor-election-results-by-district-lakewood.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 10:00:48 AM
This is where you are wrong.
Now that the seniors are getting heavily affected don't think that the Vaad will have such an easy time anymore.

Lakewood hasn't voted with the Vaad every single time either.
For example: http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2009/11/governor-election-results-by-district-lakewood.html
Governer is different
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 10:02:00 AM
I'm not putting down what you've accomplished and I support that. I just think that this particular project is one where we can have a good outcome.
I just don't equate a shopping center to the spot zoning and the duplexes. I think those are a much larger issue and we should focus a lot more energy in shutting that down.

If by good outcome you mean 24/7 traffic, yep Lakewood is gonna turn into an amazing place.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 10:06:58 AM
Governer is different

Not really.
People vote against the Vaad when they know they're wrong.
The problem is that most people didn't know that Vaad is wrong about how they run the town, but now they do.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 10:12:35 AM
I'm not putting down what you've accomplished and I support that. I just think that this particular project is one where we can have a good outcome.
I just don't equate a shopping center to the spot zoning and the duplexes. I think those are a much larger issue and we should focus a lot more energy in shutting that down.
I guess you never had the pleasure of a drive down pine that should take no longer than 3-4 minutes taking over half an hour, this will turn that half hour into an hour and a half (don't say I'm exaggerating because I am not)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 10:25:02 AM
The advantage of a school zone would allow a bus to stop in just a few places and pickup 50 kids and drop them off in one central place. It would greatly decrease the busses stopping all over town.  I agree that the traffic is a valid concern. There would be significant bussing advantages though.
Oh I agree with the school zone concept, just NIMBY :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 10:25:09 AM
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/new-lakewood-mall
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 04, 2017, 10:25:34 AM
Definitions:

Needed housing-what is built before I buy a house.

Overcrowding-what is built after I buy a house.

Cute. But if it was true, Tom's River, Jackson, and other areas outside of Lakewood wouldn't be building up right now, and Lakewood houses wouldn't be marketed to people who don't currently live here.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 10:27:39 AM
If anyone here can't find a house PM me and I'll send you the voice or put you in touch with any of the dozens of desperate realtors trying to sell houses.  :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 10:40:45 AM
If anyone here can't find a house PM me and I'll send you the voice or put you in touch with any of the dozens of desperate realtors trying to sell houses.  :)
The problem is the current mentality with the yeshivishe oilam. You need to get married, live in Lakewood, etc. No sense of adventure. There are dozens of communities located within reasonable driving distance of your parents that are dying for young people to move in.
Try it for a few years.
I did. I would have stayed but the particular community that I moved to didn't have jobs (was the height of the recession and there were very few options). I had to stay where my job took me. But for many people it is a worthwhile option to explore.
If more people would think like that, it will only make things better for everyone. Less dense in Lakewood and NY, and more diverse communities all over the US
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on January 04, 2017, 10:46:08 AM
Would it work to petition to deny access to the mall from Pine and to only have access from New H. and Cedar B. ? Those roads don't have major problems and supply enough access to even a huge mall. This will preserve the Pine area.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 10:46:53 AM
The problem is the current mentality with the yeshivishe oilam. You need to get married, live in Lakewood, etc. No sense of adventure. There are dozens of communities located within reasonable driving distance of your parents that are dying for young people to move in.
Try it for a few years.
I did. I would have stayed but the particular community that I moved to didn't have jobs (was the height of the recession and there were very few options). I had to stay where my job took me. But for many people it is a worthwhile option to explore.
If more people would think like that, it will only make things better for everyone. Less dense in Lakewood and NY, and more diverse communities all over the US
So one of the problems in America right now is that everyone lives in LKWD. Many other communities are suffering because of it. They have housing, jobs, infrastructure, schools, store, and their populations are all aging with few young people moving in because we're all squeezing into Lakewood. It's something to be addresses. Eben if you do HAVE to live in the Lakewood area, we can grow outside of Lakewood's borders to all of the neighboring towns and don't need to make Lakewood uninhabitable with 225,000 residents.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 10:47:26 AM
Would it work to petition to deny access to the mall from Pine and to only have access from New H. and Cedar B. ? Those roads don't have major problems and supply enough access to even a huge mall. This will preserve the Pine area.
Avenue of the States is a traffic lifesaver, to close that off would make pine st much worse
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 04, 2017, 10:47:28 AM


the particular community that I moved to didn't have jobs

Therein lies the problem
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 10:47:58 AM
Avenue of the States is a traffic lifesaver, to close that off would make pine st much worse
make it northbound only
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 04, 2017, 10:48:54 AM


New H. and Cedar B. ? Those roads don't have major problems
New Hampshire has a lot of issues certain times of day. U have to get out some more
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 10:50:48 AM
New Hampshire has a lot of issues certain times of day. U have to get out some more
which makes this mall such a brilliant idea. Maybe it should be moved to 6th and private
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 04, 2017, 10:52:14 AM
which makes this mall such a brilliant idea. Maybe it should be moved to 6th and private
Lol. But I think u shud have quoted

Would it work to petition to deny access to the mall from Pine and to only have access from New H. and Cedar B. ? Those roads don't have major problems and supply enough access to even a huge mall. This will preserve the Pine area.

I'm on ur team over here.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 10:55:51 AM

Therein lies the problem
No, read the rest of the post. Was during recession. Most other places have jobs
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 04, 2017, 10:56:52 AM
No, read the rest of the post. Was during recession. Most other places have jobs
Not enough of a job market for hundreds of new couples moving in.
I read your whole post, though I only quoted half
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 10:59:06 AM
make it northbound only
That would probably make it even worse
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 11:00:33 AM
New Hampshire has a lot of issues certain times of day. U have to get out some more
+1 which is why I take Ave of the States instead of NH, it can save me 5 minutes for that 1 block
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 11:06:31 AM
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c59383e330/VID-20170103-WA0095.mp4 (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/586c59383e330/VID-20170103-WA0095.mp4)

What's this about?
Speaking of ineffective ways of dealing with the issue...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 11:10:03 AM
That would probably make it even worse
its needed as an alternative to pine street. not the other way
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jo 08701 on January 04, 2017, 11:12:20 AM
I live in Lakewood for quite a while, however I live in the north side of town, and it wont affect me so much, but I will say my opinion.
I believe people would be ok with the shopping mall, if they would know for sure that the property will be put back to tax ratable's, then it would be a net win. of course having commercial or industrial is better, but they tried.
Regarding what the lady in the clip screamed, claiming she will make it a רוחניות issue, well I don't believe the mall is intended to be like ocean county mall or freehold, it will be most likely filled with heimeshe stores, although its hard to believe that the market needs it for the next 5 years, but looking forward for the next 10-20 years it will be a demand, especially if its controlled by... they will make sure no new shopping plazas... enough said.
But based on prior history in this town, I am sure they will get a 30 yr tax abatement, if Evergreen plaza got it, they will get it for sure. and that's the problem with the development. you are getting land for free to develop more than 15 years ago, and you are not putting it back to ratable's that's a חוצפה שאין כמוהו.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 11:18:18 AM
its needed as an alternative to pine street. not the other way
I'm not understanding
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 11:21:17 AM
I live in Lakewood for quite a while, however I live in the north side of town, and it wont affect me so much, but I will say my opinion.
I believe people would be ok with the shopping mall, if they would know for sure that the property will be put back to tax ratable's, then it would be a net win. of course having commercial or industrial is better, but they tried.
Regarding what the lady in the clip screamed, claiming she will make it a רוחניות issue, well I don't believe the mall is intended to be like ocean county mall or freehold, it will be most likely filled with heimeshe stores, although its hard to believe that the market needs it for the next 5 years, but looking forward for the next 10-20 years it will be a demand, especially if its controlled by... they will make sure no new shopping plazas... enough said.
But based on prior history in this town, I am sure they will get a 30 yr tax abatement, if Evergreen plaza got it, they will get it for sure. and that's the problem with the development. you are getting land for free to develop more than 15 years ago, and you are not putting it back to ratable's that's a חוצפה שאין כמוהו.
What she is screaming about is that there are rumors that a victoria secret  has plans to open there........just a rumor.

if it goes back to tax ratable i wouldnt half as apposed
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 11:23:23 AM
What she is screaming about is that there are rumors that a victoria secret  has plans to open there........just a rumor.

if it goes back to tax ratable i wouldnt half as apposed
why wouldn;t lakewood need a victoria secret?
just do it w/o the pictures
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jo 08701 on January 04, 2017, 11:33:18 AM
I don't think they will even consider to open there knowing they will be subjected to the pressure from the orthodox community, and the general population will rather avoid the area. but you never know.
You have to understand that Lakewood today isn't anymore tolerable when it comes to this issues, as it was years ago. it became more like the chasidishe world.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 04, 2017, 11:34:07 AM
What she is screaming about is that there are rumors that a victoria secret  has plans to open there........just a rumor.

if it goes back to tax ratable i wouldnt half as apposed
with all due respect that rumor sounds about as believable as that they are renting it out to martians...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 04, 2017, 11:35:39 AM
with all due respect that rumor sounds about as believable as that they are renting it out to martians...
Quite frankly there is NOTHING the mafia wouldn't do for a little bit of $$$ I don't put anything past them.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 11:36:40 AM
with all due respect that rumor sounds about as believable as that they are renting it out to martians...
ralph zuckers original plan had a minor league hockey stadium, theatre and g-d knows what else
granted it was before there was any housing anywhere near it
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jo 08701 on January 04, 2017, 11:38:32 AM
ralph zuckers original plan had a minor league hockey stadium, theatre and g-d knows what else
granted it was before there was any housing anywhere near it

that is the definition of .בור כרה ויחפריהו
Although its not really him, but more for the whole group.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 11:47:01 AM
why wouldn;t lakewood need a victoria secret?
just do it w/o the pictures
i guess you can just tell them and force them to listen......
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 11:50:12 AM
i guess you can just tell them and force them to listen......
they aren't stupid
if they believe they will be boycotted and threatened they will cut the pritzus
doubt they will go to the level of frum stores but it could be acceptable
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jo 08701 on January 04, 2017, 11:52:22 AM
Why would they open here, when rent is not cheap in Lakewood, they can go to Howell/brick, save on rent and attract the entire population, not just Lakewood residents.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 11:55:54 AM
Why would they open here, when rent is not cheap in Lakewood, they can go to Howell/brick, save on rent and attract the entire population, not just Lakewood residents.
fair point
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jo 08701 on January 04, 2017, 11:58:25 AM
I wondered a long time, how come there is no big box dept stores as in Howell, Brick, Toms River, I guess the answer is clear.
Unless a Heimish yid is behind the store, I don't think it has any truth to the rumor. Just for the rent itself i don't suspect the vaad to do it, but maybe I am naïve.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 12:02:58 PM
Why would they open here, when rent is not cheap in Lakewood, they can go to Howell/brick, save on rent and attract the entire population, not just Lakewood residents.
TAX break?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 12:25:10 PM
Not enough of a job market for hundreds of new couples moving in.
I read your whole post, though I only quoted half
Lakewood doesn't have a job market for hundreds of couples moving in. Ask anyone in PCS.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 12:26:41 PM
Lakewood doesn't have a job market for hundreds of couples moving in. Ask anyone in PCS.
except that half the businesses i deal with are desperate for decent employees
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 12:27:43 PM
except that half the businesses i deal with are desperate for decent employees
Low paying or professional?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 12:34:52 PM
Low paying or professional?
for sure low paying (not sure what your cutoff is) 
but even some professional
and forget trying to find someone to work past 3 pm
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 04, 2017, 01:34:38 PM
for sure low paying (not sure what your cutoff is) 
but even some professional
and forget trying to find someone to work past 3 pm
+1000. Very hard to find decent employees. The proof is in the pay rate. Has gone up by 30%+ in the last 3/4 years.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 04, 2017, 01:38:43 PM
Lakewood doesn't have a job market for hundreds of couples moving in. Ask anyone in PCS.
I completely disagree. The job market is exploding in LW right now.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 04, 2017, 02:57:38 PM
Like it or not Lakewood is very quickly becoming the economic center of Central Jersey
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on January 04, 2017, 03:11:05 PM
Like it or not Lakewood is very quickly becoming the economic center of Central Jersey

Extremely likely to be named an official city in the 2020 census. Likely is already.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 03:21:18 PM
Extremely likely to be named an official city in the 2020 census. Likely is already.
Notice that we're the only large municipality in NJ that does not have a Faulkner style Mayor - Council
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_New_Jersey

I know people have often said that once you hit a certain population size you magically become a city but I'm not so sure that that is hte case or what benefits that would have. Lakewood was formed as a Township and unless they changed it to a city (which they could do regardless of population size) they don't magically become a city. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_(New_Jersey)

A City in the context of New Jersey local government refers to one of five types and one of eleven forms of municipal government.

Despite the widely held perception of a city as a large, urban area, cities in New Jersey have a confused history as a form of government and vary in size from large, densely populated areas to much smaller hamlets.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
Now getting switched to Faulkner style would be a good idea. See my article in the Lakewood Weekly last week leading up to it.

If we got 3 signatures from the committee we could switch to it. If not, If we get 4,500 people to sign a petition requesting a switch, there will be a special referendum where the town would vote on whether or not to change our style of Govt. If we won the public vote (LKWDexit?)  the proposed change would have a directly elected 4 years mayor who gets a full salary to be the township manager. The 5 committee members would be voted in by zones ( so seniors get 1 guy, yeshiva area gets 1 guy etc) removing the center of power and an election would be held putting all  committee seats at play in 2017. Further, it would grant us a right of referendum which means that anytime we get 1,000-2,000 signatures together we can get any questions we want on the public ballots and can override the township committee that way. Technically we could get a public vote to a resolution abolishing Cedarbridge with 1,000 people but in general we could propose and pass ordinances that way.

Want to pass an ordinance with a moratorium? Just get 1,000 signatures and it's on the ballot.
Want an ordinance banning any zoning changes? 1,000 signatures.
Want an ordinance doing anything? 1,000 signatures.

To be more precise, you need 10% of the people who voted in the past election. 2016 had high turnout of 20K (President)  so in 2017 you'd need 2K signatures but in a year like 2016 only 8,800 voted so in 2016 880 signatures would be enough!!

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Issue-2-in-The-Lakewood-Weekly/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on January 04, 2017, 03:32:05 PM
Now getting switched to Faulkner style would be a good idea. See my article in the Lakewood Weekly last week leading up to it.

If we got 3 signatures from the committee we could switch to it. If not, If we get 4,500 people to sign a petition requesting a switch, there will be a special referendum where the town would vote on whether or not to change our style of Govt. If we won the public vote (LKWDexit?)  the proposed change would have a directly elected 4 years mayor who gets a full salary to be the township manager. The 5 committee members would be voted in by zones ( so seniors get 1 guy, yeshiva area gets 1 guy etc) removing the center of power and an election would be held putting all  committee seats at play in 2017. Further, it would grant us a right of referendum which means that anytime we get 1,000-2,000 signatures together we can get any questions we want on the public ballots and can override the township committee that way. Technically we could get a public vote to a resolution abolishing Cedarbridge with 1,000 people but in general we could propose and pass ordinances that way.

Want to pass an ordinance with a moratorium? Just get 1,000 signatures and it's on the ballot.

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Issue-2-in-The-Lakewood-Weekly/
Where do I sign?  :D
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: efflpetzel on January 04, 2017, 03:32:20 PM
Now getting switched to Faulkner style would be a good idea. See my article in the Lakewood Weekly last week leading up to it.

If we got 3 signatures from the committee we could switch to it. If not, If we get 4,500 people to sign a petition requesting a switch, there will be a special referendum where the town would vote on whether or not to change our style of Govt. If we won the public vote (LKWDexit?)  the proposed change would have a directly elected 4 years mayor who gets a full salary to be the township manager. The 5 committee members would be voted in by zones ( so seniors get 1 guy, yeshiva area gets 1 guy etc) removing the center of power and an election would be held putting all  committee seats at play in 2017. Further, it would grant us a right of referendum which means that anytime we get 1,000-2,000 signatures together we can get any questions we want on the public ballots and can override the township committee that way. Technically we could get a public vote to a resolution abolishing Cedarbridge with 1,000 people but in general we could propose and pass ordinances that way.

Want to pass an ordinance with a moratorium? Just get 1,000 signatures and it's on the ballot.
Want an ordinance banning any zoning changes? 1,000 signatures.
Want an ordinance doing anything? 1,000 signatures.

To be more precise, you need 10% of the people who voted in the past election. 2016 had high turnout of 20K (President)  so in 2017 you'd need 2K signatures but in a year like 2016 only 8,800 voted so in 2016 880 signatures would be enough!!

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Issue-2-in-The-Lakewood-Weekly/
interesting idea!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 04, 2017, 03:35:32 PM
Now getting switched to Faulkner style would be a good idea. See my article in the Lakewood Weekly last week leading up to it.

If we got 3 signatures from the committee we could switch to it. If not, If we get 4,500 people to sign a petition requesting a switch, there will be a special referendum where the town would vote on whether or not to change our style of Govt. If we won the public vote (LKWDexit?)  the proposed change would have a directly elected 4 years mayor who gets a full salary to be the township manager. The 5 committee members would be voted in by zones ( so seniors get 1 guy, yeshiva area gets 1 guy etc) removing the center of power and an election would be held putting all  committee seats at play in 2017. Further, it would grant us a right of referendum which means that anytime we get 1,000-2,000 signatures together we can get any questions we want on the public ballots and can override the township committee that way. Technically we could get a public vote to a resolution abolishing Cedarbridge with 1,000 people but in general we could propose and pass ordinances that way.

Want to pass an ordinance with a moratorium? Just get 1,000 signatures and it's on the ballot.
Want an ordinance banning any zoning changes? 1,000 signatures.
Want an ordinance doing anything? 1,000 signatures.

To be more precise, you need 10% of the people who voted in the past election. 2016 had high turnout of 20K (President)  so in 2017 you'd need 2K signatures but in a year like 2016 only 8,800 voted so in 2016 880 signatures would be enough!!

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Issue-2-in-The-Lakewood-Weekly/
what are we waiting for ????
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 03:36:38 PM
We need to get 5 people to put their names on the cover page as the organizers of the signatures. Then we need people to volunteer to join those 5 in also gathering signatures. Whoever is a signature collector has to sign an affidavit that they saw the signature being written.

I figure 2-3 seniors (non jewish) and 2-3 people from the frum community and each one gets 1K signatures or delegates out to more signature collectors. I have the paperwork drafted by a lawyer all ready to go. Find me the 5 guys and we're ready to go. The first 50 signatures will be difficult for fear of retribution. Once we have that the hundreds and thousands will flow in.

We can hire a guy to sit in the BMG coffee room and get thousands in one day  ;)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 04, 2017, 03:43:44 PM

We can hire a guy to sit in the BMG coffee room and get thousands in one day  ;)
and maybe floating in the lake/mikva soon after
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 03:46:17 PM
and maybe floating in the lake/mikva soon after
Hillary Clinton Style.

The Asbury Park Press reporter Shannon Mullen was about to release a story on us and then he fell off a ladder breaking his leg and he's now away from work for a while. Coincidence???
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
We have really not been pushing the fundraising. Originally we needed to spend on advertising. Now we have decent awareness and we haven't felt a need for major advertising other than our weekly column at the current moment. We would like to take this to the next step with litigation against the township and or zoning/planning board. We don't want to harass everyone in LKWD who is already strapped for money. We do want to identify wealthy people who are interested in stopping the madness and would dump in some nice money to help get a good legal case going to really stop things in their tracks.

We've spoken with a few lawyers and found one in particular who has some really good ideas...

There is so much there to attack on and with the funding for legal we can really change things up. If any of you know someone of means that you can either approach or tell me to approach please let me know. If someone doesn't want their name associated they can donate anonymously here using a fake name. There's got to be some wealthy people who would put down some money to help end the games once and for all....

https://www.youcaring.com/take-back-lakewood-667343
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on January 04, 2017, 04:19:26 PM
I think that 100k makes you a city automatically. I need to research it.

Though the Faulkner thing is also used by townships by choice.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 04, 2017, 04:55:56 PM
I think a few people here can use some of this
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=71229.0
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 05:03:42 PM
I think a few people here can use some of this
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=71229.0
If you think for a moment that every vote at the committee and many at the planning and zoning board is not heavily controlled you are simply mistaken.

Everywhere we turn we hear more and more about votes that are controlled and forced through. They gave Akerman terrible grief for causing a 'pirud' by not voting along with their scheme. What goes on in this town is most definitely not representative of a fair process of 5 people voting their minds.

Go ahead and look into it. These are facts.

Who do you think wrote the Cedarbridge ordinances? Do you think the Township thought it up and wrote it up with all of the details? Hint - They did not. 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 04, 2017, 05:11:50 PM
If you think for a moment that every vote at the committee and many at the planning and zoning board is not heavily controlled you are simply mistaken.

Everywhere we turn we hear more and more about votes that are controlled and forced through. They gave Akerman terrible grief for causing a 'pirud' by not voting along with their scheme. What goes on in this town is most definitely not representative of a fair process of 5 people voting their minds.

Go ahead and look into it. These are facts.
What goes on in this town is based on a well planned elaborate business model, who's CEO is well ahead of his game. The same way that 400 people control more than 50% of American assets, and has much more percentage wise of power of American citizens. Ever since Rockefeller America has been controlled by a few people and no matter how many people tried to fix it the corporations found a legal or backhanded way to control everything. I wear my tinfoil hat proudly, knowing that this is how the world rolls.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 04, 2017, 05:19:23 PM
What goes on in this town is based on a well planned elaborate business model, who's CEO is well ahead of his game. The same way that 400 people control more than 50% of American assets, and has much more percentage wise of power of American citizens. Ever since Rockefeller America has been controlled by a few people and no matter how many people tried to fix it the corporations found a legal or backhanded way to control everything. I wear my tinfoil hat proudly, knowing that this is how the world rolls.
Ok. I though you were calling us conspiracy theorists. That we are not.

And the people do have a valid concern with one person wielding power especially if the appearance is that they are doing things to benefit themselves to the detriment of the community.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 04, 2017, 05:37:02 PM
Ok. I though you were calling us conspiracy theorists. That we are not.

And the people do have a valid concern with one person wielding power especially if the appearance is that they are doing things to benefit themselves to the detriment of the community.
I think he is saying that it is futile to resist.
I wouldn't go so far, but I think you need to be more strategic
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 04, 2017, 07:08:21 PM


Ok. I though you were calling us conspiracy theorists. That we are not.

And the people do have a valid concern with one person wielding power especially if the appearance is that they are doing things to benefit themselves to the detriment of the community.

It's definitely a conspiracy, but not an illegal one.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 04, 2017, 09:51:34 PM

It's definitely a conspiracy, but not an illegal one.
I think you meant illogical. I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy. I'm sure there are plenty of people with first hand knowledge of the boardroom wheeling and dealing that goes on here...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 04, 2017, 10:30:05 PM
I completely disagree. The job market is exploding in LW right now.
Wake me up when you hear of someone commuting TOO Lakewood from anywhere for work..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 04, 2017, 10:44:07 PM
Wake me up when you hear of someone commuting TOO Lakewood from anywhere for work..
Lol. Too true, unfortunately. The big companies here pay pennies compared to what they pay for the same job in the metro area..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 04, 2017, 10:44:53 PM
Wake me up when you hear of someone commuting TOO Lakewood from anywhere for work..
wake up. I know a few.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 04, 2017, 10:45:25 PM
wake up. I know a few.
For example? What type of jobs?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 04, 2017, 10:46:09 PM
wake up. I know a few.
Wow... I'm surprised. What industry, Amazon?

 Well I know hundreds who commute out..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 04, 2017, 10:49:51 PM
http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2017/01/lakewood-purchasers-of-new-construction.html?m=1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 04, 2017, 11:00:51 PM
Wake me up when you hear of someone commuting TOO Lakewood from anywhere for work..
Even if there was a large booming job market here, do to the difference in the cost of living for NYC and a town in NJ, it wouldn't make sense for someone to drive in. So that's not a great way to determine if the markets booming.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 04, 2017, 11:02:27 PM
http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2017/01/lakewood-purchasers-of-new-construction.html?m=1
I'm sure the asking price was never what anyone payed the past few months.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: springles on January 05, 2017, 09:44:50 AM
http://yudelstake.blogspot.com/2017/01/lakewood-purchasers-of-new-construction.html?m=1
Thats gotta be the worst literacy I have ever seen on a blog (which is all about writing). I had to read it several times to understand what he was trying to say with half the things.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 05, 2017, 10:13:54 AM
Thats gotta be the worst literacy I have ever seen on a blog (which is all about writing). I had to read it several times to understand what he was trying to say with half the things.
That's Yidel
Stream of consciousness blogging
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 05, 2017, 01:42:51 PM
I went through the Zoning Board Agenda for Monday night. Will post on the website Sunday Morning - Please share the info with anyone you may know who lives in these areas.

Downtown, Chestnut, James, Cross, Route 88 and Pine St


Zoning Board Meeting Mon Jan 9th at 7:00

The applications below total an astounding 189 houses, 378 families and 756 cars!!

1.  OLD BUSINESS
 
APPEAL # 3997, Casa Nova LLC, 323 2nd Street R-OP Zone.  To construct a  retail/office building. Needs parking variances.
 
2.  NEW BUSINESS
 Appeal # 3967 – Cong. Maalos Hatorah, Block 1159 Lots 35-38, 86 & 89, Block 1159.04 Lots  25, 26, 28, 29 & 30. R-20 zone.  Use variance requested for duplexes.
38 houses where 9 are permitted. That's 74 families and 148 cars. Near Stamford Meadows on Chestnut

 Appeal # 3998 – David Holtz, Block 338 Lot 3, James Street & Grantwood Avenue, R-12 zone  Subdivision and use variance for 2 duplexes and 4 zero lot line lots.
Duplexes are not permitted! Zoned for 1 house - applicant wants 2 duplexes which are 4 houses, 8 families and 16 cars. Also requesting variances for lot width, lot area, front yard setback, side yard setback, lot coverage.... The works!!!

 Appeal # 3999 – Mordechai Kreitman, 5 Buttell Avenue, Block 418 Lot 2, R-10 zone.  Duplex on an undersized lot required 12,000 – proposed 10,600.
 
Appeal # 4002 –Block 458 LLC, Cross Street & Nassau Street – Block 457, 458, 466, 467, 468,  469, R-20C.  Use variance to allow duplex housing and an educational campus.
Wants to build: 1)School 2) 5 unit townhouse 3)27 duplexes which is 54 houses.     This project will total 118 families and 226 cars!!

 Appeal # 4000 – Faraday Estates, West Cross Street & Faraday Ave, Block 508 Lots 2 & 3 R-20 zone. To construct 30 single family homes on undersized lot.
Wants to change zone from R-20 to R12 and build 30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars!

 Appeal # 4003 – Drake Development, 1101 West Cross Street & 54 Drake Rd. R-40 zone. Block 25l.02 Lots 90 & 98.  To construct single family homes on undersized  lots.
Wants to build 30 houses and change zone from R40 to R12!! 30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars!!

 Appeal # 4011 - Sammy Wechsler, 5 Freedom Drive, Block 290 Lots 1.47 R-10 zone.  To construct an addition and renovation single family dwelling.  Variance  requested for side yard setback 8 feet proposed 10 required and combined setback proposed 23.8 where 25 feet is required.
 
Appeal # 4008 – Clearview Equities, 298 & 306 Chestnut Street, Block 1094 Lot 4, Block  1087 Lots 2 & 21, B-5 zone. Subdivide 3 lots into 6 duplexes.
Applicant is Obed Gonzales, Zoning Board member. Wants to build 6 duplexes which is 12 houses, 24 families and 48 cars!!!
 
Appeal # 4013 – David Birnbaum, 269 Ocean Avenue, Block 249 Lots 9, 10, 11 & 12, R-7.5  zone. To construct 4 duplexes on undersized lots.  Use variance
4 duplexes which is 8 houses, 16 families and 32 cars on Route 88!!
 
Appeal # 3958A – Clearview Equities, LLC, Pine St. Block 855.01 Lots 21, 34.03, 36 & 37.  Subdivision to create 8 lots and a new cul-de-sac.  Use previously approved.
A cul-de-sac opening onto Pine Street with 8 houses,, 16 families and 32 cars!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 05, 2017, 01:49:08 PM
Take Back Lakewood:

Why have you not posted on your site or elsewhere about the massive mall planned for Avenue of the States? It is so not like you....talk about over-congestion and traffic...as it is Pine Street is out of control, what would a mall up the road do to that road and Route 9? It's overbuilding at its worst and it will smother that section of town much worse than it already is....

Do you have a problem with a huge mall being built in that location and the over-congestion and quality of life issues that will result, and if so why not discuss?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 05, 2017, 02:12:12 PM
Take Back Lakewood:

Why have you not posted on your site or elsewhere about the massive mall planned for Avenue of the States? It is so not like you....talk about over-congestion and traffic...as it is Pine Street is out of control, what would a mall up the road do to that road and Route 9? It's overbuilding at its worst and it will smother that section of town much worse than it already is....

Do you have a problem with a huge mall being built in that location and the over-congestion and quality of life issues that will result, and if so why not discuss?
Believe me - I'm involved. I did write about it in brief form for my column in the Lakewood weekly that will be in your mailbox Motzei Shabbos and didn't get around to writing a longer post for the website. There is so much to write about Cedarbridge and how it got to where it is today - so far from its intended use. I will write something up eventually. I've just been busy with many exciting TBL projects. Realistically, it's more relevant to discuss this mall closer to the Feb 21 planning board public hearing.

No one is even talking about the 80,000 sqft cedarbridge office/daycare building on Pine across from Albert. 2 floors daycare and 2 floors office. They claim it wont add traffic since the daycare will be servicing the people working in the office buildings.  As if the daycare will only be for the people working in the corporate park....

SP 2220 Pine Holdings, LLC
They will have the public hearing the same date of Feb 21 and the board was concerned about pickup and drop off of kids adding traffic. Oh and this is all right across the street from the cul-de-sac with 8 houses on Pine on Monday night Zoning Board Agenda.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 05, 2017, 02:27:28 PM
I went through the Zoning Board Agenda for Monday night. Will post on the website Sunday Morning - Please share the info with anyone you may know who lives in these areas.

Downtown, Chestnut, James, Cross, Route 88 and Pine St


Zoning Board Meeting Mon Jan 9th at 7:00

The applications below total an astounding 189 houses, 378 families and 756 cars!!

1.  OLD BUSINESS
 
APPEAL # 3997, Casa Nova LLC, 323 2nd Street R-OP Zone.  To construct a  retail/office building. Needs parking variances.
 
2.  NEW BUSINESS
 Appeal # 3967 – Cong. Maalos Hatorah, Block 1159 Lots 35-38, 86 & 89, Block 1159.04 Lots  25, 26, 28, 29 & 30. R-20 zone.  Use variance requested for duplexes.
38 houses where 9 are permitted. That's 74 families and 148 cars. Near Stamford Meadows on Chestnut

 Appeal # 3998 – David Holtz, Block 338 Lot 3, James Street & Grantwood Avenue, R-12 zone  Subdivision and use variance for 2 duplexes and 4 zero lot line lots.
Duplexes are not permitted! Zoned for 1 house - applicant wants 2 duplexes which are 4 houses, 8 families and 16 cars. Also requesting variances for lot width, lot area, front yard setback, side yard setback, lot coverage.... The works!!!

 Appeal # 3999 – Mordechai Kreitman, 5 Buttell Avenue, Block 418 Lot 2, R-10 zone.  Duplex on an undersized lot required 12,000 – proposed 10,600.
 
Appeal # 4002 –Block 458 LLC, Cross Street & Nassau Street – Block 457, 458, 466, 467, 468,  469, R-20C.  Use variance to allow duplex housing and an educational campus.
Wants to build: 1)School 2) 5 unit townhouse 3)27 duplexes which is 54 houses.     This project will total 118 families and 226 cars!!

 Appeal # 4000 – Faraday Estates, West Cross Street & Faraday Ave, Block 508 Lots 2 & 3 R-20 zone. To construct 30 single family homes on undersized lot.
Wants to change zone from R-20 to R12 and build 30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars!

 Appeal # 4003 – Drake Development, 1101 West Cross Street & 54 Drake Rd. R-40 zone. Block 25l.02 Lots 90 & 98.  To construct single family homes on undersized  lots.
Wants to build 30 houses and change zone from R40 to R12!! 30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars!!

 Appeal # 4011 - Sammy Wechsler, 5 Freedom Drive, Block 290 Lots 1.47 R-10 zone.  To construct an addition and renovation single family dwelling.  Variance  requested for side yard setback 8 feet proposed 10 required and combined setback proposed 23.8 where 25 feet is required.
 
Appeal # 4008 – Clearview Equities, 298 & 306 Chestnut Street, Block 1094 Lot 4, Block  1087 Lots 2 & 21, B-5 zone. Subdivide 3 lots into 6 duplexes.
Applicant is Obed Gonzales, Zoning Board member. Wants to build 6 duplexes which is 12 houses, 24 families and 48 cars!!!
 
Appeal # 4013 – David Birnbaum, 269 Ocean Avenue, Block 249 Lots 9, 10, 11 & 12, R-7.5  zone. To construct 4 duplexes on undersized lots.  Use variance
4 duplexes which is 8 houses, 16 families and 32 cars on Route 88!!
 
Appeal # 3958A – Clearview Equities, LLC, Pine St. Block 855.01 Lots 21, 34.03, 36 & 37.  Subdivision to create 8 lots and a new cul-de-sac.  Use previously approved.
A cul-de-sac opening onto Pine Street with 8 houses,, 16 families and 32 cars!!
One bit of info I think will be helpful is to write how many houses would be allowed on these properties based on the current zoning.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 05, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
Believe me - I'm involved. I did write about it in brief form for my column in the Lakewood weekly that will be in your mailbox Motzei Shabbos and didn't get around to writing a longer post for the website. There is so much to write about Cedarbridge and how it got to where it is today - so far from its intended use. I will write something up eventually. I've just been busy with many exciting TBL projects. Realistically, it's more relevant to discuss this mall closer to the Feb 21 planning board public hearing.

No one is even talking about the 80,000 sqft cedarbridge office/daycare building on Pine across from Albert. 2 floors daycare and 2 floors office. They claim it wont add traffic since the daycare will be servicing the people working in the office buildings.  As if the daycare will only be for the people working in the corporate park....

SP 2220 Pine Holdings, LLC
They will have the public hearing the same date of Feb 21 and the board was concerned about pickup and drop off of kids adding traffic. Oh and this is all right across the street from the cul-de-sac with 8 houses on Pine on Monday night Zoning Board Agenda.

Pine River Village is fighting a losing battle unless they change tactics. first, hey hired the wrong attorney, she appeared to be like a deer in the headlights, not realizing what she was walking into. the bigger problem is that the die was cast last year when they passed an ordinance changing the zoning, they can build this without variances if they wanted to.

If they really want to fight it, they need to make this part of a bigger case showing a pattern of over-reach and illegal behavior by these boards. Not sure if they have the financial and intestinal fortitude to do that. Maybe something you can join with them on.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 05, 2017, 03:29:22 PM
Pine River Village is fighting a losing battle unless they change tactics. first, hey hired the wrong attorney, she appeared to be like a deer in the headlights, not realizing what she was walking into. the bigger problem is that the die was cast last year when they passed an ordinance changing the zoning, they can build this without variances if they wanted to.

If they really want to fight it, they need to make this part of a bigger case showing a pattern of over-reach and illegal behavior by these boards. Not sure if they have the financial and intestinal fortitude to do that. Maybe something you can join with them on.
The attorney hired was not available that night so she came instead (I assume she works at the same firm).

Agreed, they are able to build by ordinance without variances and therefore the battle is more with questioning why this was ever approved which is out of the purview of the planning board. The battle should also be fought outside of the planning board potentially getting BMG to back down.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 05, 2017, 03:41:58 PM
Where exactly on pine st is there a plan for a cul de sac?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 05, 2017, 03:49:28 PM
Where exactly on pine st is there a plan for a cul de sac?
Just West of Albert between Pine and East Spruce - opening onto Pine very close to the intersection of Pine and Albert.

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/appeal-3958a-pine-street-east-spruce.html

Many variances.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 05, 2017, 05:58:39 PM
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this whole shopping Center is just a smokescreen for residential development. The goal is to get Pine River Village Residents to complain due to moral reasons, then "placate" them by building residential. I am convinced for a number of reasons

1)  Why ask for variances, they could easily build this without any.

2) Why the outdoor theater, I have never even seen this at a mall. The developers must have known this would raise eyebrows and that was their intention.

3) Who is going to occupy all this retail space?

4) The ROI  on this mall  plan is questionable, with residential they can flip the land for at least $50 million.

The protests thus far have taken the bait. they are complaining about how this would impact the children. Flip it to residential after a few months of fighting it,  and they lose the argument. If you start complaining about density, you will get pegged as a bunch of whiners who are just anti-BMG. The protesters will already be drained financially and emotionally, and it will pass.

The efforts against this mall need to be about congestion. That way, if it flips to residential, it just compounds the argument for those against it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 05, 2017, 06:26:38 PM
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this whole shopping Center is just a smokescreen for residential development. The goal is to get Pine River Village Residents to complain due to moral reasons, then "placate" them by building residential. I am convinced for a number of reasons

1)  Why ask for variances, they could easily build this without any.

2) Why the outdoor theater, I have never even seen this at a mall. The developers must have known this would raise eyebrows and that was their intention.

3) Who is going to occupy all this retail space?

4) The ROI  on this mall  plan is questionable, with residential they can flip the land for at least $50 million.

The protests thus far have taken the bait. they are complaining about how this would impact the children. Flip it to residential after a few months of fighting it,  and they lose the argument. If you start complaining about density, you will get pegged as a bunch of whiners who are just anti-BMG. The protesters will already be drained financially and emotionally, and it will pass.

The efforts against this mall need to be about congestion. That way, if it flips to residential, it just compounds the argument for those against it.

Very astute. Why highlight "theater" if it goes against the grain of locals and all your other points...bait and switch...they will back down and say, ok lets build a zillion homes. Yes, fight it using congestion and traffic, which is a big part of the problem...still they may well not stand a chance..but yes....there is shtick involved and people need to realize this...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Cheesecake on January 05, 2017, 07:16:24 PM
http://matzav.com/watch-rav-feivel-cohen-mandated-venue-for-torah-jews-is-bais-din/

https://youtu.be/W9Tp1KW5a6A
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 05, 2017, 07:33:32 PM
http://matzav.com/watch-rav-feivel-cohen-mandated-venue-for-torah-jews-is-bais-din/
Is he basically saying that nothing should be decided by the planning board hence forth?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on January 05, 2017, 08:02:50 PM
http://matzav.com/watch-rav-feivel-cohen-mandated-venue-for-torah-jews-is-bais-din/
Is there a clearer video?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Cheesecake on January 05, 2017, 08:09:20 PM
Is there a clearer video?
I don't think so.
Edit: I posted it ahead
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Cheesecake on January 05, 2017, 08:10:24 PM
Is he basically saying that nothing should be decided by the planning board hence forth?
I think he is saying that the decisions should be made by Beis Din with input from the planning board and any affected parties.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 05, 2017, 08:13:23 PM
The decisions should be made by Beis Din with input from the planning board and any affected parties.
the way I understand it is that even if gets a pass to go thru legally, there may be halachic problems with it....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 05, 2017, 08:14:23 PM
Is there a clearer video?
yes. On first amendment YouTube channel
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Cheesecake on January 05, 2017, 08:15:04 PM
the way I understand it is that even if gets a pass to go thru legally, there may be halachic problems with it....
I think the halachic problem he is referring to is going to arkaos.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 05, 2017, 08:16:40 PM
The decisions should be made by Beis Din with input from the planning board and any affected parties.
I heard what he said. I was expounding on this fascinating, game changing implication that any planning and zoning disputes between two Jewish parties must be adjucated by a B"D.
This is not a chiddush, but it is not obvious to some...

Will the residents of PRV listen to the Rabbi and sue cedarbridge in B"D?
Is there enough popcorn for that?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 05, 2017, 08:18:29 PM
I think the halachic problem he is referring to is going to arkaos.
Of course. Jews may not adjucated disputes via secular courts or laws. Those that do forfeit their share in olam haba
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Cheesecake on January 05, 2017, 08:27:16 PM
yes. On first amendment YouTube channel
Found it. At about 3:12.

https://youtu.be/QjfNRncKyeU
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: TimT on January 05, 2017, 09:08:12 PM
Who's the gentleman who cut him off ?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Cheesecake on January 05, 2017, 09:36:48 PM
Who's the gentleman who cut him off ?
I don't know.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 05, 2017, 09:43:46 PM
Who's the gentleman who cut him off ?

It is the Planning Board Attorney, who is paid by the taxpayers. He has a habit of cutting of anyone who opposes a petition, or more often, just not allowing them to speak.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: TimT on January 05, 2017, 09:45:10 PM
It is the Planning Board Attorney, who is paid by the taxpayers. He has a habit of cutting of anyone who opposes a petition, or more often, just not allowing them to speak.
You know his name ?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 05, 2017, 09:58:52 PM
You know his name ?
John Jackson of King, Kitrick, Jackson & McWeeney, LLC

I happen to find him to be extremely knowledgeable and generally fair and conservative. Though I often wish he ruled differently, I generally agree with him from a legal standpoint.

Keep in mind - the board members are not lawyers and are not experts in the nuances of the law. When he guides them he is always careful to say he's not steering them in how to vote, just elucidating the legal matter for them to understand what they're voting on. They hired him to be their legal guidance and if they would make a bad decision that was appealed in court, he would have to go to court to defend them. From what I hear he has never (or almost never) lost a case.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 05, 2017, 10:19:07 PM
You know his name ?
John Jackson
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: nucheiner on January 05, 2017, 11:34:40 PM
You can get the guys in BMG to sign up in a heartbeat. They are so ticked off about the lack of parking by all campuses. Even the lot on 9th they stole from taxpayers is a muddy mess.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 06, 2017, 12:31:42 AM
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/rabbi-admits-that-vaad-is-controlling.html

I must say I am flabbergasted at the blatant admission of guilt. The Commissioner of the election board of Ocean County and Vaad member blatantly admitted to manipulating the mayoral vote! 'We felt... we left all the other jobs Republican like the engineer..... , We felt that we should get someone up there'

Who is 'we'? Why are 'we' deciding anything??? 'We' left the other jobs? Am I missing something? Shouldn't they be at least pretending that everyone voted on their own free will??

Wow!! Wow!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 06, 2017, 12:42:35 AM
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/rabbi-admits-that-vaad-is-controlling.html

I must say I am flabbergasted at the blatant admission of guilt. The Commissioner of the election board of Ocean County and Vaad member blatantly admitted to manipulating the mayoral vote! 'We felt... we left all the other jobs Republican like the engineer..... , We felt that we should get someone up there'

Who is 'we'? Why are 'we' deciding anything??? 'We' left the other jobs? Am I missing something? Shouldn't they be at least pretending that everyone voted on their own free will??

Wow!! Wow!!

Got to give props to the Voice for printing this. I especially like how he mentioned that Coles has advocated for exponential growth and the picture of that member of the Vaad together with an attorney that is commonly used by developers. For Lakewood, these subtle items, are sign of progress
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 06, 2017, 07:02:00 AM
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/rabbi-admits-that-vaad-is-controlling.html

I must say I am flabbergasted at the blatant admission of guilt. The Commissioner of the election board of Ocean County and Vaad member blatantly admitted to manipulating the mayoral vote! 'We felt... we left all the other jobs Republican like the engineer..... , We felt that we should get someone up there'

Who is 'we'? Why are 'we' deciding anything??? 'We' left the other jobs? Am I missing something? Shouldn't they be at least pretending that everyone voted on their own free will??

Wow!! Wow!!
Well I'm not in the least surprised.

This was always the official way things were decided in Lakewood. The vaad made all of the klall related decisions. It was never a secret. And frankly, back in the day, people were very happy that they were really controlling and running the show....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 06, 2017, 10:52:30 AM
I'm a little confused. How is cedar bridge corporation (BMG) still allowed to develop the mall. Didn't their 10 year contract expire? Also who currently OWNS the land?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 06, 2017, 12:16:44 PM
Well I'm not in the least surprised.

This was always the official way things were decided in Lakewood. The vaad made all of the klall related decisions. It was never a secret. And frankly, back in the day, people were very happy that they were really controlling and running the show....
Oh I'm not surprised about the facts. I'm surprised that he so blatantly admitted to likely criminal but definitely unethical manipulation.  To TELLING the elected officials how to govern.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 06, 2017, 12:34:07 PM
I'm a little confused. How is cedar bridge corporation (BMG) still allowed to develop the mall. Didn't their 10 year contract expire? Also who currently OWNS the land?

Township owns the land. BMG was given a 7 year deal with unlimited 5 year options to "buy" it from them..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 06, 2017, 12:59:06 PM
Township owns the land. BMG was given a 7 year deal with unlimited 5 year options to "buy" it from them..
Someone told me that they already purchased it. Is there any truth to that?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Baruch on January 06, 2017, 01:34:22 PM
Oh I'm not surprised about the facts. I'm surprised that he so blatantly admitted to likely criminal but definitely unethical manipulation.  To TELLING the elected officials how to govern.
Why's it criminal to tell an elected official that if he doesn't vote a certain way, they will recommend to their voting bloc, not to vote for him?

Focus on changing the fact that most people listen to the Va'ad. That is your job.

But till you do that, there's nothing wrong with the Va'ad flexing it's muscles. They have the votes. That's the definition of democracy!



Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on January 06, 2017, 02:00:57 PM
@Takebacklakewood if you are smart you will sit this one out.Going against the yeshiva is still the third rail in  this town.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 06, 2017, 02:12:14 PM
@Takebacklakewood if you are smart you will sit this one out.Going against the yeshiva is still the third rail in  this town.

BMG Inc is not a Yeshiva
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 06, 2017, 02:13:13 PM
BMG Inc is not a Yeshiva
For the purposes of this thread that distinction is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 06, 2017, 02:28:11 PM
A Zoning Board member had an item on the agenda for this coming Monday night.

(https://s28.postimg.org/pzbe3sa59/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/4pnrsxtuh/)image upload no limit (https://postimage.org/)
(https://s30.postimg.org/jvft4y24h/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/61rgfw9j1/)free image host (https://postimage.org/)

Several other people emailed also expressing their disapproval. Mr. Gonzalez issued a response,

We submitted an OPRA to obtain the correspondence between the Mayor and the zoning Board Attorney. They considered that the application should need to go to the planning board due to the conflict.
(https://s30.postimg.org/jcjyadp0x/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/w3y4gvyst/)free upload image (https://postimage.org/)
And.... The application was withdrawn!!!

(https://s24.postimg.org/x8ng3unf9/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/70cbeh3bl/)photoupload (https://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 07, 2017, 07:56:24 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByC0SKamXAbPcjVGVzQxQlF4d2c/view

See page 3
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 07, 2017, 07:57:12 PM
Weekly Column issue 3

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Weekly-Column-Issue-3/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 07, 2017, 09:02:54 PM
@Takebacklakewood if you are smart you will sit this one out.Going against the yeshiva is still the third rail in  this town.
There are plenty of people in this town who couldn't care less about "The Yeshiva".
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 07, 2017, 10:01:16 PM
There are plenty of people in this town who couldn't care less about "The Yeshiva".

There are a few that couldn't care less about the Yeshiva, there are more that can differentiate between The Yeshiva and BMG Inc., however there are not enough. More people need to understand the difference between the Yeshiva and BMG Inc. which is holding 10's of millions in assets.

If things keep going the way they are, and people don't realize that difference, eventually, most people in town will not care about the Yeshiva
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 10:48:17 AM
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/ramapo/2017/01/08/ramapo-ny-breaking-point/95369994/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 10:54:24 AM
There are a few that couldn't care less about the Yeshiva, there are more that can differentiate between The Yeshiva and BMG Inc., however there are not enough. More people need to understand the difference between the Yeshiva and BMG Inc. which is holding 10's of millions in assets.

If things keep going the way they are, and people don't realize that difference, eventually, most people in town will not care about the Yeshiva
Just curious, the funds go toward the yeshivas budget. Would you rather they send out letters every 2 months about how the kollel can't be paid and the electric is about to be shut off like some institutions do? Would you give to an "emergency appeal" every 2 months?really? Every university I know of, Harvard, Yale, YU, you name it, has an endowment fund and investments to help fund their budget- Harvard has investments in the billions- because its impracticle to keep going back to your donors to make the budget- it doesn't work. That used to be the model years ago. Remember those days when kollel checks just weren't paid and creditors were just sitting on IOUs? So if you want to talk about traffic and zoning problems I'm on board but when it morphs into BMG is a yeshiva and shouldnt be running any businesses that sounds pretty shallow to me unless you have a better way of covering the budget....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 08, 2017, 10:55:39 AM
Just curious, the funds go toward the yeshivas budget. Would you rather they send out letters every 2 months about how the kollel can't be paid and the electric is about to be shut off like some institutions do? Would you give to an "emergency appeal" every 2 months?really? Every university I know of, Harvard, Yale, YU, you name it, has an endowment fund and investments to help fund their budget- Harvard has investments in the billions- because its impracticle to keep going back to your donors to make the budget- it doesn't work. That used to be the model years ago. Remember those days when kollel checks just weren't paid and creditors were just sitting on IOUs? So if you want to talk about traffic and zoning problems I'm on board but when it morphs into BMG is a yeshiva and shouldnt be running any businesses that sounds pretty shallow to me unless you have a better way of covering the budget....
They have a pretty good way of covering the budget. Its called FAFSA. They get over 4k for each eligible student
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 08, 2017, 10:59:37 AM
Just curious, the funds go toward the yeshivas budget. Would you rather they send out letters every 2 months about how the kollel can't be paid and the electric is about to be shut off like some institutions do? Would you give to an "emergency appeal" every 2 months?really? Every university I know of, Harvard, Yale, YU, you name it, has an endowment fund and investments to help fund their budget- Harvard has investments in the billions- because its impracticle to keep going back to your donors to make the budget- it doesn't work. That used to be the model years ago. Remember those days when kollel checks just weren't paid and creditors were just sitting on IOUs? So if you want to talk about traffic and zoning problems I'm on board but when it morphs into BMG is a yeshiva and shouldnt be running any businesses that sounds pretty shallow to me unless you have a better way of covering the budget....
only a very dumb person would think bmg has $ issues, and even if they do need investments to operate it doesn't mean they can do it at the expense of other people's quality of life
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2017, 11:01:49 AM
only a very dumb person would think bmg has $ issues, and even if they do need investments to operate it doesn't mean they can do it at the expense of other people's quality of life
Usually when people say that it shows that THEY are the dumb ones. You never know the finances of a person or entity until you see the real numbers.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on January 08, 2017, 11:13:11 AM


only a very dumb person would think bmg has $ issues, and even if they do need investments to operate it doesn't mean they can do it at the expense of other people's quality of life

Should say,

they do need investments to operate it but doesn't mean they can do it at the expense of other people's quality of life
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 08, 2017, 11:24:44 AM
Just curious, the funds go toward the yeshivas budget. Would you rather they send out letters every 2 months about how the kollel can't be paid and the electric is about to be shut off like some institutions do? Would you give to an "emergency appeal" every 2 months?really? Every university I know of, Harvard, Yale, YU, you name it, has an endowment fund and investments to help fund their budget- Harvard has investments in the billions- because its impracticle to keep going back to your donors to make the budget- it doesn't work. That used to be the model years ago. Remember those days when kollel checks just weren't paid and creditors were just sitting on IOUs? So if you want to talk about traffic and zoning problems I'm on board but when it morphs into BMG is a yeshiva and shouldnt be running any businesses that sounds pretty shallow to me unless you have a better way of covering the budget....

1. IINM Yeshiva doesn't pay for the Kollel checks, a connected org does from unrelated money. The rest of the budget can be filled out from donations, FAFSA, and other government grants.

2. It's okay to have an investing arm, though if I oppose a Harvard project I won't become an outcast. BMG Inc and BMG yeshiva are virtually indistinguishable, so any opposition to a BMG Inc project means I'm a kofer who's kids shouldn't be allowed in school.

3. BMG Inc is severely hurting residents Quality of Life, while laying the groundwork for an unprecedented Chillul Hashem when the dominoes fall.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 08, 2017, 11:54:14 AM
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/ramapo/2017/01/08/ramapo-ny-breaking-point/95369994/
According to census estimates, 73.7 percent of Kaser residents live in poverty, followed by New Square, with 70.5 percent; Monsey, with 46.9 percent; and Spring Valley, with 35.7 percent. Overall, 24.9 percent of Ramapo's population is below the poverty line compared with 14 percent countywide and 15.4 percent statewide.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 12:21:06 PM
1. IINM Yeshiva doesn't pay for the Kollel checks, a connected org does from unrelated money. The rest of the budget can be filled out from donations, FAFSA, and other government grants.

2. It's okay to have an investing arm, though if I oppose a Harvard project I won't become an outcast. BMG Inc and BMG yeshiva are virtually indistinguishable, so any opposition to a BMG Inc project means I'm a kofer who's kids shouldn't be allowed in school.

3. BMG Inc is severely hurting residents Quality of Life, while laying the groundwork for an unprecedented Chillul Hashem when the dominoes fall.
An unrelated org pays for kollel checks???? What in the world does that mean? How in the world can it not figure in to their overall budget?  I'm amazed that you can analyze an organizations budget from the outside to confidently balance their budget for them based on a off the cuff analysis of all of their inflows. Can I hire you to pick stocks for my hedge fund?
We were discussing quality of life impacts then we started hearing about the big bad yeshiva who is running a business.... that is what I take issue with
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 08, 2017, 01:45:18 PM
An unrelated org pays for kollel checks???? What in the world does that mean? How in the world can it not figure in to their overall budget?  I'm amazed that you can analyze an organizations budget from the outside to confidently balance their budget for them based on a off the cuff analysis of all of their inflows. Can I hire you to pick stocks for my hedge fund?

I didn't say unrelated, I said connected org. From what I was explained once is that the checks don't come from Yeshiva directly, they come from the org that fundraises through the tent event other activities. I may have heard wrong, but either way it's an irrelevant side point, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.

Quote
We were discussing quality of life impacts then we started hearing about the big bad yeshiva who is running a business.... that is what I take issue with

Take issue with it all you want. If the yeshiva doesn't want to tarnish its name, they should separate the business from the education just like all the other entities you mentioned. BMG Inc (which doesn't actually exist and I made up to differentiate between the biz and the org) uses the yeshiva's name and clout and drags it through the mud. So when discussing issues with BMG Inc it's impossible to avoid discussion of the yeshiva.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 08, 2017, 02:36:58 PM




Take issue with it all you want. If the yeshiva doesn't want to tarnish its name, they should separate the business from the education just like all the other entities you mentioned. BMG Inc (which doesn't actually exist and I made up to differentiate between the biz and the org) uses the yeshiva's name and clout and drags it through the mud. So when discussing issues with BMG Inc it's impossible to avoid discussion of the yeshiva.

Just btw, BMG's for profit arm is real. It's not technically a separate entity. But for tax purposes it is taxable and separate from its non profit activities.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 02:42:04 PM
We were discussing quality of life impacts then we started hearing about the big bad yeshiva who is running a business.... that is what I take issue with
Our primary focus is quality of life impacts. Unfortunately, as we started getting into the thick of it we found that certain individuals feel that TBL is an existential threat to BMG (their words not ours). We were surprised because we hadn't even mentioned BMG to anyone!

As it turns out, the facts are that in order to maintain getting Cedarbridge etc etc, they have had to maintain a tight grip on the township committeemen and planning and zoning boards for many years. This is not simply a matter of a democracy where they command a vote bloc and therefore committeemen aim to make them happy.

When people (committeemen) or businesses (newspapers, websites, magazines etc) do anything that they object to they use threats of all types to ensure that their will is adhered to.

While we never had any interest in engaging BMG/Vaad/Cedarbridge, it seems they view a slower pace of building and a possibility of informed citizens potentially voting in new candidates to the committee, or new additions to the planning and zoning boards as an affront to everything that yeshiva stands for (not sure why).

There is much going on behind the scenes but a case in point is where Delia was attempting to fix the zoning and planning boards and he was canned in favor of someone who will listen to the Vaad.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 02:47:53 PM
In that sense I am on board with you that there is a new reality of an electorate that feels strongly about the rampant building and non sensical zoning that has been the norm for far too long...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 02:48:31 PM
http://www.joyceblaynewsandviews.com/freedomofthepress/blog1.php/slapped-with-new-year-s

Menashe Miller named in lawsuit
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
In that sense I am on board with you that there is a new reality of an electorate that feels strongly about the rampant building and non sensical zoning that has been the norm for far too long...
Exactly. While we're not delving into the Cedarbridge/BMG angle too much, it came up under the planning board umbrella and it needed a little highlighting since the Vaad is desperately trying to squash any movement that would slow down building.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 02:58:04 PM
Read through the Master Plans.

The plan is to have 230,000 residents in Lakewood by 2030 which we all know would be a disaster!!

http://www.lakewoodnj.gov/images/db/sforsyth-7370-2014-Master-Plan-Amendment-Adopted.pdf

(https://s24.postimg.org/mt8q91j9h/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5spu0d681/)imageupload (https://postimage.org/)

(https://s24.postimg.org/bnr0df4ph/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wxemo9l01/)image upload (https://postimage.org/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/5nftzolvh/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8hizd4o1l/)image upload without registration (https://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 08, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Our primary focus is quality of life impacts. Unfortunately, as we started getting into the thick of it we found that certain individuals feel that TBL is an existential threat to BMG (their words not ours). We were surprised because we hadn't even mentioned BMG to anyone!

As it turns out, the facts are that in order to maintain getting Cedarbridge etc etc, they have had to maintain a tight grip on the township committeemen and planning and zoning boards for many years. This is not simply a matter of a democracy where they command a vote bloc and therefore committeemen aim to make them happy.

When people (committeemen) or businesses (newspapers, websites, magazines etc) do anything that they object to they use threats of all types to ensure that their will is adhered to.

While we never had any interest in engaging BMG/Vaad/Cedarbridge, it seems they view a slower pace of building and a possibility of informed citizens potentially voting in new candidates to the committee, or new additions to the planning and zoning boards as an affront to everything that yeshiva stands for (not sure why).

There is much going on behind the scenes but a case in point is where Delia was attempting to fix the zoning and planning boards and he was canned in favor of someone who will listen to the Vaad.

That seems pretty intense. Can you give some examples?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 08, 2017, 03:07:24 PM
That seems pretty intense. Can you give some examples?
He gave 1 about Delia not being allowed to be mayor
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 08, 2017, 03:12:00 PM
He gave 1 about Delia not being allowed to be mayor

When people (committeemen) or businesses (newspapers, websites, magazines etc) do anything that they object to they use threats of all types to ensure that their will is adhered to.

That sentence is clear that there are far more examples than one. 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 03:13:17 PM
That seems pretty intense. Can you give some examples?
That is tough to do because I don't want to jeapardize anyone so I'll give an example that you are all aware of.

The Lakewood scoop used to have reporting similar to hefkervelt where they would expose some of the things going on in Lakewood.
After a cherem threat, they stopped reporting all of that and now stay away from anything that BMG might consider derogatory or critical of the township committee with a ten foot pole.

Hershel Hershkowitz (like him or not) used to bring up valid issues in town. Then BMG met with him and gave him this which he refused to sign and therefore was not allowed to send his kids to any school in Lakewood.
(https://s24.postimg.org/spb9c1jv9/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/zfrqlh70x/)image hosting more than 5mb (https://postimage.org/)

[Self moderated out juicy details to avoid straying too far off topic]
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 03:23:04 PM
Dan you must be very brave....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 03:28:01 PM
Dan you must be very brave....
While the above post 100% true and very necessary, I will take it down [ edit - modify it] soon. No we have not been threatened (yet) because they don't know who we are. I am attempting to run a clean positive campaign and not a negative one. If only we were dealing with natural forces of a normal electorate, besides the fact that we would not be in the position we are currently in, the elected officials would be more than happy to listen to valid concerns and address them. The reason that some of them can not is because they are being forced to take certain positions that will help a certain institution.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
When people (committeemen) or businesses (newspapers, websites, magazines etc) do anything that they object to they use threats of all types to ensure that their will is adhered to.

That sentence is clear that there are far more examples than one.
Does that do it for you?  :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: sharkky on January 08, 2017, 05:24:25 PM
They have a pretty good way of covering the budget. Its called FAFSA. They get over 4k for each eligible student
IINM For NJ residents, they get closer to 20k
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 06:21:32 PM
That is tough to do because I don't want to jeapardize anyone so I'll give an example that you are all aware of.

The Lakewood scoop used to have reporting similar to hefkervelt where they would expose some of the things going on in Lakewood.
After a cherem threat, they stopped reporting all of that and now stay away from anything that BMG might consider derogatory or critical of the township committee with a ten foot pole.

Hershel Hershkowitz (like him or not) used to bring up valid issues in town. Then BMG met with him and gave him this which he refused to sign and therefore was not allowed to send his kids to any school in Lakewood.
(https://s24.postimg.org/spb9c1jv9/image.png) (https://postimg.org/image/zfrqlh70x/)image hosting more than 5mb (https://postimage.org/)

[Self moderated out juicy details to avoid straying too far off topic]
Let's just say poor example for those without context. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 08, 2017, 06:31:37 PM
Let's just say poor example for those without context. Nuff said.
Huh???? Can you please explain yourself?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 06:33:01 PM
Huh???? Can you please explain yourself?
I'm not going to explain....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 08, 2017, 06:35:28 PM
I'm not going to explain....
So don't say something baseless like that, it's a straw man arguement. The fact of the matter remains Aaron Kotler is running a mafia, it really doesn't make a difference how you try to spin things.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 06:49:56 PM
Not for this forum. Sorry.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on January 08, 2017, 06:52:47 PM
Huh???? Can you please explain yourself?
+1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 08, 2017, 07:15:28 PM
+1
I will not publicize the pm I received because that is a breach of trust however I will say that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. והמבין יבין.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 07:21:10 PM
I will not publicize the pm I received because that is a breach of trust however I will say that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. והמבין יבין.
You are welcome to post if you wish. I do not consider it a breach of trust. I will not post. Don't see how you came to that conclusion....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 07:28:53 PM
Whether you agree with those examples or not I don't care. There are numerous examples that I am not posting because they are not public knowledge.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 07:46:34 PM
Whether you agree with those examples or not I don't care. There are numerous examples that I am not posting because they are not public knowledge.
If I was running a school I would have drafted the same letter and so would most other people I know. You say you have other examples. I guess we will have to take your word for it:)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on January 08, 2017, 07:49:36 PM
Whatever you do , don't give in to terrorism and give up. I know Hundreds of yungerliet in this town who agree with you 100% but are scared to speak up. We are all relying on you to drain the swamp
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 08, 2017, 07:52:23 PM
If I was running a school I would have drafted the same letter and so would most other people I know. You say you have other examples. I guess we will have to take your word for it:)
Against your word? Anytime. Just don't forget that Is Din, V'is Dayan.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 08, 2017, 07:55:27 PM
If I was running a school I would have drafted the same letter and so would most other people I know. You say you have other examples. I guess we will have to take your word for it:)
You have to admit that letter was over the top.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 08, 2017, 07:57:30 PM
If I was running a school I would have drafted the same letter and so would most other people I know. You say you have other examples. I guess we will have to take your word for it:)
Your claim is that HH did so many other things to warrant not allowing his kids into school, if that were true why did they pick the things that should not warrant his kids to not be accepted to school?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 08:13:58 PM
Whatever you do , don't give in to terrorism and give up. I know Hundreds of yungerliet in this town who agree with you 100% but are scared to speak up. We are all relying on you to drain the swamp
There are far too many who say they are too scared to speak up. Some tell me it's because of their kids schools, some because of their jobs.

All I can say is that if hundreds of people join forces together, they can't threaten everyone...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on January 08, 2017, 08:16:19 PM
There are far too many who say they are too scared to speak up. Some tell me it's because of their kids schools, some because of their jobs.

All I can say is that if hundreds of people join forces together, they can't threaten everyone...
once enough people speak up then this won't be something anymore that they could threaten not to let our kids into school
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on January 08, 2017, 08:17:09 PM
But they will threaten anyone who tries to get us to join forces.....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 08:18:44 PM
But they will threaten anyone who tries to get us to join forces.....
That's me and they don't know who I am  :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: sharkky on January 08, 2017, 08:35:17 PM
That's me and they don't know who I am  :)
I hope you have a good VPN
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 08, 2017, 08:36:37 PM
That's me and they don't know who I am  :)
You really that  anonymous? I don't believe it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 08, 2017, 08:38:42 PM
I hope you have a good VPN
+1
He's all over the place. I hope he's not relying on anonymity...
I bet @jj could get your id in no time ;)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 08:49:24 PM
All I can say is if he's truly unknown despite running his website, numerous correspondence with elected officials, posts on this forum
,  and his identity obviously being known to first amendment activist et al Kol Hakovod to him...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 08:50:28 PM
and his identity obviously being known to first amendment activist et al
Source?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 08, 2017, 08:53:15 PM
+1
He's all over the place. I hope he's not relying on anonymity...
I bet @jj could get your id in no time ;)
Good thing Dan and jj have no connection to BMG or lakewood so they can't be forced into anything.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 08, 2017, 08:55:10 PM
Good thing Dan and jj have no connection to BMG or lakewood so they can't be forced into anything.
Meh, Dan has no dog in this fight...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: TimT on January 08, 2017, 09:15:11 PM
I bet @jj could get your id in no time ;)
There are ways around ;)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2017, 09:50:34 PM
http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/local/rockland/ramapo/2017/01/08/ramapo-ny-breaking-point/95369994/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 08, 2017, 09:55:52 PM
Just curious, the funds go toward the yeshivas budget. Would you rather they send out letters every 2 months about how the kollel can't be paid and the electric is about to be shut off like some institutions do? Would you give to an "emergency appeal" every 2 months?really? Every university I know of, Harvard, Yale, YU, you name it, has an endowment fund and investments to help fund their budget- Harvard has investments in the billions- because its impracticle to keep going back to your donors to make the budget- it doesn't work. That used to be the model years ago. Remember those days when kollel checks just weren't paid and creditors were just sitting on IOUs? So if you want to talk about traffic and zoning problems I'm on board but when it morphs into BMG is a yeshiva and shouldnt be running any businesses that sounds pretty shallow to me unless you have a better way of covering the budget....

If you would do some research you would see that one arm of BMG Inc. has tens of millions in assets.  The Kollel check has remained at about $80 per week for the last few decades. Most people don't care how much money they want to amass. But there are 2 problems. The ways justifies the means is a treife concept bordering on K'feira, certainly, not a suitable ideology for a Yeshiva. Secondly, they are not destroying the town so the Yeshiva could survive, or that they can provide Yungeliet with  an increased check, they are destroying it so they can amass a fortune.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 10:11:14 PM
If you would do some research you would see that one arm of BMG Inc. has tens of millions in assets.  The Kollel check has remained at about $80 per week for the last few decades. Most people don't care how much money they want to amass. But there are 2 problems. The ways justifies the means is a treife concept bordering on K'feira, certainly, not a suitable ideology for a Yeshiva. Secondly, they are not destroying the town so the Yeshiva could survive, or that they can provide Yungeliet with  an increased check, they are destroying it so they can amass a fortune.
Um, I followed your advice and did a search. Apparently in 2015 they raised the kollel check and that added $500000 to the budget. Then they raised the check again in 2016. According to another recent article on pcjewishpulse.com the kollel budget is now around $15,000,000 a year and apparently that is more than double what it was a decade ago.....so let's see, they are going to be paying out over $150 MILLION in kollel stipends over the next decade. In your vast knowledge and experience, oh great one, how many millions in assets do you judge them worth of possessing? Would you like to help them raise the $150 Million by organizing a Chinese auction? Cars for Kollel? Or maybe you can help them cull the ranks and decide which yungerlite should should be dropped from the kollel? Pray tell...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 08, 2017, 10:21:19 PM
Can you guys stand up? I can't hear you.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 08, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
They prioritized adding slots over raising the amount.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 08, 2017, 10:30:46 PM
Um, I followed your advice and did a search. Apparently in 2015 they raised the kollel check and that added $500000 to the budget. Then they raised the check again in 2016. According to another recent article on pcjewishpulse.com the kollel budget is now around $15,000,000 a year and apparently that is more than double what it was a decade ago.....so let's see, they are going to be paying out over $150 MILLION in kollel stipends over the next decade. In your vast knowledge and experience, oh great one, how many millions in assets do you judge them worth of possessing? Would you like to help them raise the $150 Million by organizing a Chinese auction? Cars for Kollel? Or maybe you can help them cull the ranks and decide which yungerlite should should be dropped from the kollel? Pray tell...
As of 2014 BMG's assets made them sulf sufficient for the next 20 years. It used to be that fundraisers for BMG were actually treated very well because BMG needed them, and relied on them. Not so the case anymore
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on January 08, 2017, 10:31:58 PM
As of 2014 BMG's assets made them sulf sufficient for the next 20 years. It used to be that fundraisers for BMG were actually treated very well because BMG needed them, and relied on them. Not so the case anymore
source?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 10:35:08 PM
As of 2014 BMG's assets made them sulf sufficient for the next 20 years. It used to be that fundraisers for BMG were actually treated very well because BMG needed them, and relied on them. Not so the case anymore
You mean their assets are generating $15 million (plus considerably more for the non kollel budget) a year for the next 20 years? I'd love to see a source for that.... if they had even $150 million in assets that kind of return would trounce those of the average endowment fund.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/amp/articles/2016-08-08/harvard-private-equity-hedge-funds-and-the-classics?client=safari
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 08, 2017, 10:38:36 PM
You mean their assets are generating $15 million (plus considerably more for the non kollel budget) a year for the next 20 years? I'd love to see a source for that....
Let me clarify. Assets plus current govt grants
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 08, 2017, 10:41:23 PM
Let me clarify. Assets plus current govt grants
Source? BMG coffee room?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on January 08, 2017, 10:52:22 PM
Um, I followed your advice and did a search. Apparently in 2015 they raised the kollel check and that added $500000 to the budget. Then they raised the check again in 2016. According to another recent article on pcjewishpulse.com the kollel budget is now around $15,000,000 a year and apparently that is more than double what it was a decade ago.....so let's see, they are going to be paying out over $150 MILLION in kollel stipends over the next decade. In your vast knowledge and experience, oh great one, how many millions in assets do you judge them worth of possessing? Would you like to help them raise the $150 Million by organizing a Chinese auction? Cars for Kollel? Or maybe you can help them cull the ranks and decide which yungerlite should should be dropped from the kollel? Pray tell...

they do need investments to operate it but doesn't mean they can do it at the expense of other people's quality of life

From articles they themselves wrote (iirc in the phamplet they send out a couple times a year) the kollel budget is a sperate budget and is covered by donors and therefore cut out the tent event etc as its no longer needed... and the raise you speak of was a $3 or $4 a week they're trying to hit $5k a year per guy (currently around $4800?). And yes I think it's pretty amazing that since they changed fundraising tactics they haven't missed a paycheck and changed the wait from 5 years to 3 years, although the real reason for that seems to be to get guys to stay in yeshiva for longer, the same reason shirts sedarim became avail for all chaburos (again a  private sponsor not in the reg budget).

And again most importantly

they do need investments to operate it but doesn't mean they can do it at the expense of other people's quality of life
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 08, 2017, 10:53:55 PM
Anyone mention decreasing enrollments?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 11:03:56 PM
Anyone mention decreasing enrollments?
BMG claims that in years that there was decreased building enrollments were down.

It's pretty clear that enrollments are down because people are starting to think about how they'll earn a living earlier and spending less years in Kollel. That enabled them to lower the number of years from 5 to 3.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 08, 2017, 11:09:27 PM
I'm disappointed this thread went OT, it was good for such a long time. Whether or not BMG needs the money is not for here, nor do I think we know. It's generally in the category of those who know don't say etc. unless AK is posting as yzj or something.
We all agree that a yeshiva may have an investment arm, especially if said arm pays property taxes, which I think it does.
We all agree that said arm should not be allowed to abuse QOL issues, which was the reason this started.
And we all agree that there is undue influence which is possibly or potentially allowing that to happen.
So let's move on, shall we? before we get into some serious ביזוי תורה which none of us want to do.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on January 08, 2017, 11:19:07 PM
Anyone mention decreasing enrollments?
Forgot to mention that the impetus for changing tactics of fundraising and being able to change waiting time adding shmiras sedarim etc is they felt ppl aren't happy in yeshiva and therefore leaving to other kollelim and to work and this is a way of making ppl happier (along with smaller chaburos among other things. if only the knew how much parking would help ).

When Pemberton seemed like it was almost a reality there was suddenly an emergency meeting how to make the yungerlite feel happy in yeshiva.

As someone said so eloquently
בית מדרשו זצ"ל של ר' אהרן שליט"א
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 08, 2017, 11:20:29 PM
So let's move on, shall we? before we get into some serious ביזוי תורה which none of us want to do.
Agreed. Back on track.

Come on down to the zoning board meeting Monday night at 7:00!!

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Meeting-Mon-Jan-9th/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 11:03:07 AM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on January 09, 2017, 11:26:54 AM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/

Those suggestions seem reasonable. FYI, it's spelled dialogue
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 12:09:20 PM
Those suggestions seem reasonable. FYI, it's spelled dialogue
Thanks. Fixed.

Ray Coles responded thanking for the suggestions and said that some of these are already in the pipeline. He will discuss them with the attorneys and the committee.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 09, 2017, 12:27:13 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/
Well written. If many of these suggestions had been implemented a few yeas back we would be looking at a vastly different town.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 09, 2017, 12:33:25 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/
I would add:
On major roads that are likely to need future upgrades, require larger setbacks so that if we need to widen the road, the township can practically do so in the future.
Rt 88 and rt 9 comes to mind.

Number 7 seems a bit too broad. Not every cul-de-sac is exactly the same.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 09, 2017, 12:34:42 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/redevelopment/2017/01/06/lakewoods-eagle-ridge-golf-club-sold/96256016/

who bought and what is going to land here
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 12:37:22 PM
I would add:
On major roads that are likely to need future upgrades, require larger setbacks so that if we need to widen the road, the township can practically do so in the future.
Rt 88 and rt 9 comes to mind.

Number 7 seems a bit too broad. Not every cul-de-sac is exactly the same.
You'd be surprised - on many of these roads there are large setbacks required but variances are routinely granted to build closer to the road than allowed.

It could be reworded. The objective is that is there a block long paper street, no one should be allowed to build up half of it, seal up the end as a cul de-sac and effectively blocking the rest of the paper street from ever being build or connecting anywhere.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 09, 2017, 12:40:07 PM


You'd be surprised - on many of these roads there are large setbacks required but variances are routinely granted to build closer to the road than allowed.


There is one application for tonights meeting on ocean Ave that has that issue
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 12:47:41 PM

There is one application for tonights meeting on ocean Ave that has that issue
Come down with your neighbors and speak up!!

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/appeal-4013-255-269-ocean-avenue.html
4 Duplexes (8 houses, 16 families and 32 cars)
Required - 10K sqft lots. Requested - 9,000 sqft lots
Allowable Max of 5.8 dwellings per acre. Requested - 9.64.
Small lot width variances (form 30 to 29)
Side yard setback - Required - 7 feet. Requested - 5 feet.

The other thing is that the County doesn't want cars backing onto County Roads. Therefore,  they build a U driveway connecting the 2 halves of the duplex that's supposedly going to be used to turn around so that no one backs onto a County Road. Realistically, that doesn't happen and everyone backs onto the County roads.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 09, 2017, 01:52:20 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/
Can anyone suggest changes to traffic patterns? I have an idea to attempt to alleviate some traffic by miller & hope. They should make that little stretch on hope between miller and south lake 2 lanes going northbound. That way most of the miller traffic can turn onto hope, and most of them are only on that stretch until north lake anyway
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 01:55:21 PM
Can anyone suggest changes to traffic patterns? I have an idea to attempt to alleviate some traffic by miller & hope. They should make that little stretch on hope between miller and south lake 2 lanes going northbound. That way most of the miller traffic can turn onto hope, and most of them are only on that stretch until north lake anyway
You need to contact Ocean County for that.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 09, 2017, 03:45:45 PM
I would add:
On major roads that are likely to need future upgrades, require larger setbacks so that if we need to widen the road, the township can practically do so in the future.
Rt 88 and rt 9 comes to mind.

Number 7 seems a bit too broad. Not every cul-de-sac is exactly the same.

Every Cul de Sac is the same in that it has multiple homes pouring traffic onto a single road.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 09, 2017, 03:53:31 PM
Every Cul de Sac is the same in that it has multiple homes pouring traffic onto a single road.
Correct, but some roads can handle it, some cannot. And the same goes with a street that goes straight through.
For instance, if you'd put another street from River Ave to Williams, you'd end up with the same traffic issues as a cul-de-sac.
If you added a cul-de-sac to a road that can support the flow, you won't have issues.
It's not the cul-de-sac per se, it's the lack of proper arteries to pick up the flow, both north - south, and east-west.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 09, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
Correct, but some roads can handle it, some cannot. And the same goes with a street that goes straight through.
For instance, if you'd put another street from River Ave to Williams, you'd end up with the same traffic issues as a cul-de-sac.
If you added a cul-de-sac to a road that can support the flow, you won't have issues.
It's not the cul-de-sac per se, it's the lack of proper arteries to pick up the flow, both north - south, and east-west.
Name one street in Lakewood that can handle a Cul De Sac? Every street small street, leads to another street which is backed up. there is only 2 N/S roads that intersect the town, and 4 to 5 E/W roads that  do the same. there will never be more, there are County Parks the Lake and developments preventing it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 09, 2017, 04:00:02 PM
Name one street in Lakewood that can handle a Cul De Sac? Every street small street, leads to another street which is backed up. there is only 2 N/S roads that intersect the town, and 4 to 5 E/W roads that  do the same. there will never be more, there are County Parks the Lake and developments preventing it.
My point is that it's not a cul-de-sac, it's any street that can't support traffic.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 05:19:29 PM
My point is that it's not a cul-de-sac, it's any street that can't support traffic.
While Route 9 and the lake and parks will always be obstacles, we can at least allow traffic to flow better within regions by having through streets. Yes ultimately they'll all lead to the same County and State roads and that's why we need to limit building overall.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 09, 2017, 06:01:12 PM
If you added a cul-de-sac to a road that can support the flow, you won't have issues.

This doesn't and can't exist in modern Lakewood.

My point is that it's not a cul-de-sac, it's any street that can't support traffic.

2 through streets will always be better than 1.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 08:01:37 PM
https://youtu.be/_M8qy4UTQIw Live stream of zoning meeting. Live now
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 09:26:47 PM
New Zoning Board Rules

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/New-Zoning-Board-rules
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hcn0132 on January 09, 2017, 10:28:38 PM
TBL, Is it true that the Voice and FNW were told (by the powers to be) to stop broadcasting your message? and to not print letters in general regarding the overbuilding etc?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 10:36:52 PM
TBL, Is it true that the Voice and FNW were told (by the powers to be) to stop broadcasting your message? and to not print letters in general regarding the overbuilding etc?
Well that gets back to the earlier discussion we had on here. Let's just say that they used to post letters, and they once ran an ad from us. After a visit from a very special someone (he who must not be named) they no longer run our ads.

They still list the zoning and planning board applications on FNW. 732-551-3351     Press 1 then 2 then 1.

I am impressed that they posted that article where Shenky admitted to manipulating public officials
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/rabbi-admits-that-vaad-is-controlling.html

It is thanks to them that we got off the ground (though I'm sure they don't want to take credit)  ;) as they posted our initial 2 letters to the Coffee Room. http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Coffee-room-letters-1-and-2/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hcn0132 on January 09, 2017, 10:53:27 PM
Well that gets back to the earlier discussion we had on here. Let's just say that they used to post letters, and they once ran an ad from us. After a visit from a very special someone (he who must not be named) they no longer run our ads.

They still list the zoning and planning board applications on FNW. 732-551-3351     Press 1 then 2 then 1.

I am impressed that they posted that article where Shenky admitted to manipulating public officials
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/rabbi-admits-that-vaad-is-controlling.html

It is thanks to them that we got off the ground (though I'm sure they don't want to take credit)  ;) as they posted our initial 2 letters to the Coffee Room. http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Coffee-room-letters-1-and-2/
   Where was the earlier discussion?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 09, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
For those who want some info on NJ Municipal Land Use Law and when variance's are legal here is a good link

http://www.njslom.org/presentations/d-variances-042415.pdf

In order for a D' Variance to be allowed, it needs to have "Special Reasons" to permit it. One of the allowed "special reasons" is if the use is deemed inherently beneficial. If you do some Googling, you will see that the NJ Supreme Court is very tough on what it considers inherently beneficial. Aside for that, even if a use is inherently beneficial , if it meets the negative criteria, it can still be denied.

The Lakewood Zoning Board, and their attorney, constantly site the decade old Master Plans call for increased density, as a reason to grant a D Variance. Essentially, they are saying that zoning laws can be ignored because of the need for increased housing.

There is no way that anyone in their right mind actually believes that this constitutes a "special reason" or inherently beneficial use. The reason for the MLUL is so zoning laws should be followed, and that variances should be what the name implies, a variance from the norm. These laws were specifically made with the intention of keeping variances from becoming "the norm". The fact that a block away from the subject property is zoned differently, has no bearing on whether it qualifies for a variance.

I have watched a bunch of these meetings, and I don't recall seeing one residential D Variance request that is valid, and would hold up in court of law.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 11:06:23 PM
You are 100% correct. That's why virtually any time an attorney opposes those applications they are easily denied. We're hopefully getting to a point where the board will not just grant variances simply because Brian testifies that the benefits outweigh the detriments.

6 out of 9 applications on the agenda were carried to future meetings. Hopefully that won't happen with the new rules.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 09, 2017, 11:08:47 PM
"benefits outweigh the detriments."  That is not enough to meet the standard of Inherently Beneficial. The zoning board is a complete joke, with the Chairman acting as Head Clown
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 09, 2017, 11:31:22 PM
"benefits outweigh the detriments."  That is not enough to meet the standard of Inherently Beneficial. The zoning board is a complete joke, with the Chairman acting as Head Clown
The ZBA is certainly more troubling than the planning board.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on January 11, 2017, 09:14:30 AM
anyone know what happened to the plaza on 9 and chestnut? passed by last nite and the one store thats open has a sign that its closed.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 11, 2017, 10:00:38 AM
Annual reports with approvals from Zoning and Planning for the last few years.
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-and-Zoning-Board-Annual-Approval-Reports
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 11, 2017, 09:26:29 PM
Annual reports with approvals from Zoning and Planning for the last few years.
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-and-Zoning-Board-Annual-Approval-Reports
I'm afraid to look...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on January 11, 2017, 10:08:31 PM
They have a pretty good way of covering the budget. Its called FAFSA. They get over 4k for each eligible student
They're budget is massive and they don't get the 4k forever. That being said if they want to have investments it should run within what is acceptable and not use their name to strong arm people to giving them variances etc.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 11, 2017, 10:09:47 PM
Some special mention for Lakewood in the APP special report on rentals.
http://www.app.com/story/insider/extras/2016/12/30/renter-hell-part-3-protected-law/94817488/

Properties owned by companies at Beepers Plus - https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1kyd7QRVANv7flSGRi7uJdrppe50&hl=en&usp=sharing

http://www.app.com/story/insider/extras/2016/12/30/renter-hell-part-1-billions-squalor/96011730/

In case you wonder why this is relevant - 2 reasons.

1) APP hasn't yet reported on the whole Lakewood/TBL story because they spent the past 3 months doing this big 5 part series on rental conditions spanning Lakewood, Asbury Park, Newark and Camden.
2) The address they report on in Lakewood having many LLC's associated (not Beepers Plus) is familiar from some spot zoning applications and most recently from 2 applications pulled from this past ZBA agenda.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 11, 2017, 10:57:35 PM
They're budget is massive and they don't get the 4k forever. That being said if they want to have investments it should run within what is acceptable and not use their name to strong arm people to giving them variances etc.
+1 it really makes no difference how big or small their budget is, they can have investments and assets as long as they play fair and don't take what they shouldn't under the guise of torah
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 11, 2017, 11:02:04 PM
They're budget is massive and they don't get the 4k forever. That being said if they want to have investments it should run within what is acceptable and not use their name to strong arm people to giving them variances etc.
There you go, No one is begrudging yeshiva running a profitable business to support the yeshiva. The problem people have is when Cedarbridge got land worth over $50 Million for free and then will try to get approvals that no one else would ever be able to get  because of their clout. People have a problem with the fact that they can do whatever they want and no one can say anything because then they're anti-yeshiva.

In an interesting twist, in a lawsuit filed 12/23/16 (http://www.joyceblaynewsandviews.com/freedomofthepress/blog1.php/slapped-with-new-year-s) Ken Garzo claims title to the land in Cedarbridge. That means that it's very likely that Lakewood Township will now pay Garzo many millions of dollars to BUY the land from him to then GIVE the land to BMG. Not only are taxpayers giving land away for free, but PAYING to do so!! From what I hear though his claims seem frivolous and he may never win.

The appellate court ruling will come at some point and decide of it was or was not legal to give the land away for free, but ultimately, even if they do have a right, let it be used for the purpose it was given. For office buildings and to create high paying jobs.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 12, 2017, 02:17:10 AM
Here's the full Garzo litigation (https://docs.zoho.com/file/150sf2f62df3757dd4702ab5655b2524f5e84) filed on December 22rd 2016 against Lakewood Township, Menashe Miller, Tom Henshaw (Township Manager), Erez Holdings and Cedarbridge.

Charges of Fraud, misrepresentation, breach of contract, Breach of the Implied Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing, civil conspiracy, slander of title, quiet title, conversion, Violations of N.J.S.A. 4:17 -10, trespass, and ejectment.

See here as well. http://www.joyceblaynewsandviews.com/freedomofthepress/blog1.php/slapped-with-new-year-s
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 12, 2017, 12:58:13 PM
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=15638.msg1648997#msg1648997
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2017, 01:11:22 PM
Here's the full Garzo litigation (https://docs.zoho.com/file/150sf2f62df3757dd4702ab5655b2524f5e84) filed on December 22rd 2016 against Lakewood Township, Menashe Miller, Tom Henshaw (Township Manager), Erez Holdings and Cedarbridge.

Charges of Fraud, misrepresentation, breach of contract, Breach of the Implied Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing, civil conspiracy, slander of title, quiet title, conversion, Violations of N.J.S.A. 4:17 -10, trespass, and ejectment.

See here as well. http://www.joyceblaynewsandviews.com/freedomofthepress/blog1.php/slapped-with-new-year-s
One thing you should keep in mind is that Blay is a certified sonei yisroel and will always interpret everything in the worst possible light for the frum community and I have seen her make many things up as well simply because they fit into her story. Do not trust one word she writes.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 12, 2017, 01:22:46 PM
One thing you should keep in mind is that Blay is a certified sonei yisroel and will always interpret everything in the worst possible light for the frum community and I have seen her make many things up as well simply because they fit into her story. Do not trust one word she writes.
I do hope the township has insurance either way since the costs of litigation are high.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 12, 2017, 04:14:57 PM
I do hope the township has insurance either way since the costs of litigation are high.

Their attorney is hired at a flat rate fee
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 12, 2017, 04:15:42 PM
One thing you should keep in mind is that Blay is a certified sonei yisroel and will always interpret everything in the worst possible light for the frum community and I have seen her make many things up as well simply because they fit into her story. Do not trust one word she writes.

Most of it is straight from the lawsuit docs
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2017, 04:26:38 PM
Most of it is straight from the lawsuit docs
1. I didn't specifically mean this article but a general rule.
2. How the passages are selected and quoted can make a tremendous difference.
3. The commentary between can change your interpretation of the quotes.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 12, 2017, 04:57:19 PM
1. I didn't specifically mean this article but a general rule.
2. How the passages are selected and quoted can make a tremendous difference.
3. The commentary between can change your interpretation of the quotes.

1. I don't know enough to disagree with you.
Just saying this article seemed to fit very well around the facts I didn't see any made up claims.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 12, 2017, 05:09:08 PM
Their attorney is hired at a flat rate fee
That's if they don't need outside counsel. Appellate cAses often do
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 12, 2017, 05:12:00 PM
1. I don't know enough to disagree with you.
Just saying this article seemed to fit very well around the facts I didn't see any made up claims.
I can't tell you anything about this specific article since I do not bother reading her stuff any more than I would anyone else who makes a "news" site for the purpose of smearing frum people.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on January 13, 2017, 11:11:22 AM
anyone know what happened to the plaza on 9 and chestnut? passed by last nite and the one store thats open has a sign that its closed.

bump
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 14, 2017, 08:14:41 PM
Some special mention for Lakewood in the APP special report on rentals.
http://www.app.com/story/insider/extras/2016/12/30/renter-hell-part-3-protected-law/94817488/

Properties owned by companies at Beepers Plus - https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1kyd7QRVANv7flSGRi7uJdrppe50&hl=en&usp=sharing

http://www.app.com/story/insider/extras/2016/12/30/renter-hell-part-1-billions-squalor/96011730/

In case you wonder why this is relevant - 2 reasons.

1) APP hasn't yet reported on the whole Lakewood/TBL story because they spent the past 3 months doing this big 5 part series on rental conditions spanning Lakewood, Asbury Park, Newark and Camden.
2) The address they report on in Lakewood having many LLC's associated (not Beepers Plus) is familiar from some spot zoning applications and most recently from 2 applications pulled from this past ZBA agenda.
I don't understand how Yidden could be such Reshuim...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 14, 2017, 08:22:52 PM
Lakewood Weekly page 15 has issue 4 of our weekly column

 http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Lakewood-Weekly-Column-Issue-4
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 16, 2017, 10:22:33 AM
Planning Board Agenda for Tuesday January 17th at 6:00.

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-Jan-17th
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 16, 2017, 10:31:56 AM
Construction underway on pine st. Across from Albert. Is that for the rumored hotel?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 16, 2017, 11:32:18 AM
I don't understand how Yidden could be such Reshuim...
I wouldn't call someone a rasha because they allowed weeds to grow on their tenants property! I'd call the tenant one for being moser on his landlord!
And I wouldn't call someone who just sold a property to a shul at below cost price a rasha either.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 16, 2017, 12:52:31 PM
I wouldn't call someone a rasha because they allowed weeds to grow on their tenants property! I'd call the tenant one for being moser on his landlord!
And I wouldn't call someone who just sold a property to a shul at below cost price a rasha either.
Are you reading the same thing I'm reading? Don't be silly. That's not what I'm referring to.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 17, 2017, 03:11:23 PM
Planning Board meeting tonight at 6:00 tonight.

Many applicants have asked to carry. Only 5 items left on the agenda
See the updated agenda http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-Jan-17th

Live stream here will begin at 6:00.



Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 18, 2017, 03:28:38 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/new-jersey/2017/01/18/affordable-housing-nj-supreme-court-decision/96677848/                       

Interesting ruling today. Says that Jackson and Toms River each need to build over 1,200 affordable housing units (total over 2,500 units) to make up for years when they did not build enough.                       

Lakewood obviously has built more than  enough and is not affected

Edit: To clarify, the ruling today affected municipalities that had not already reached settlements. Toms River and Jackson had recently reached settlements and were therefore not affected by today's ruling.

They agreed to build:
•    Toms River: 1,285 units
•    Jackson: 1,250 units
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 18, 2017, 04:14:00 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/new-jersey/2017/01/18/affordable-housing-nj-supreme-court-decision/96677848/                       

Interesting ruling today. Says that Jackson and Toms River each need to build over 1,200 affordable housing units (total over 2,500 units) to make up for years when they did not build enough.                       

Lakewood obviously has built more than  enough and is not affected

Edit: To clarify, the ruling today affected municipalities that had not already reached settlements. Toms River and Jackson had recently reached settlements and were therefore not affected by today's ruling.

They agreed to build:
•    Toms River: 1,285 units
•    Jackson: 1,250 units
Doesn't say where they are going to build. Wish we could force them to build close to Lakewood
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 18, 2017, 04:28:57 PM
Doesn't say where they are going to build. Wish we could force them to build close to Lakewood
They will need to choose between religious minorities, racial minorities, or a mix between the two. Don't let anyone convince you that there is any other calculation.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 18, 2017, 05:39:34 PM
Racial minorities will bring with it massive State Aid, they will go in that direction.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on January 18, 2017, 10:42:07 PM
Racial minorities will bring with it massive State Aid, they will go in that direction.
Because religious minorities in ocean County don't?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Deal Guy on January 18, 2017, 10:50:59 PM
Planning Board meeting tonight at 6:00 tonight.

Many applicants have asked to carry. Only 5 items left on the agenda
See the updated agenda http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-Jan-17th

Live stream here will begin at 6:00.




What ended up happpening with item #4  http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sd-2173.html on Joe Parker and the school? What does it mean it is carried to a future meeting? Were there more people there supporting it or against it?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 18, 2017, 11:01:32 PM
What ended up happpening with item #4  http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sd-2173.html on Joe Parker and the school? What does it mean it is carried to a future meeting? Were there more people there supporting it or against it?
The school had many parents come to support it. The parents don't live in the neighborhood though....

In this application, the developer has 2 deep lots on Joe Parker next to the school. He wants to subdivide into 3 shallower lots facing Joe Parker and turn the whole back into a 4th lot that will add on to the schools property. While I have nothing against the school, I know some neighbors are concerned about the building growing in size. The schools attorney said they just want the extra land for a parking lot or playground. The board considered approving it even though the residential lots will be undersized since they can use the open space that is will be owned by the school. They therefore wanted to limit building on that area so it remains open land. The head of the school then spoke and said that his intention is not to get open land but to build a larger building. While he spoke the truth, his attorney said the exact opposite - that they are just looking for a parking lot and open space.

The board wanted to restrict some portion of the property to ensure that all of the open space doesn't disappear and therefore they wanted some details on where the eventual new building would be.  Since the applicant wasn't able to decide on the spot, they carried (pushed off) the application to a future meeting where the applicant will present his plans for the school so the big picture can be seen before deciding.

Ultimately, the biggest question is - why do they need 3 lots fronting Joe Parker? Why not leave the 2 lots that are there, the school will get their land, and there won't be such a reduction in lot size....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 19, 2017, 01:25:53 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-Committee-Meeting-Thurs-1-19-at-7-30

1) Tonight at 7:30 PM there will be a township committee meeting. They start on time and the public portion begins right at the beginning of the meeting. The entire meeting usually lasts just one hour.

There will likely be a significant crowd there addressing many important topics including the planned shopping center in Cedarbridge, and the mayoral manipulation. Please attend if possible as there will likely be a lot of exciting action!

The meeting will be streamed live starting at 7:30 PM and can be accessed in this post if you return here at 7:30 and on our twitter and website.

2) An item on the agenda for a first reading reads:
Ordinance Of The Township Of Lakewood, County Of Ocean, State Of NewJersey, Adopting The Updated Township Personnel Polices And Procedures Manual And Creating The Department Of Human Resources

Lakewood has never had a Human Resources department or Director and many are wondering why there is a sudden need for a Human Resources department which would add a newly created department and position in the local govt.

3) In a ruling from the Superior Court of NJ Appellate Division yesterday, the court ruled on Shain V. Lakewood Township and Cedabridge. The ruling affirmed the prior courts decision which ruled in favor of Lakewood Township and Cedarbridge and against the Lakewood taxpayers. An opposite ruling would have returned tens of millions of dollars to the taxpayers.....

Part of the ruling says: Generally, "municipal  actions  enjoy  a  presumption  of validity"  and  a  party  seeking  to  overcome  this  presumption  faces "a  heavy  burden."

Effectively, because the elected Township officials decided to give away land worth 10's of millions of dollars for just $10, they represent everyone and they have that right to make that decision.
See here (https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/a0824-13.pdf) for the full decision.

(https://s24.postimg.org/mttqke2s5/CDC.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xtexvzt75/)click image upload (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 19, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Hmm, mysterious new HR department and a new HR Director. Who will it be and at what salary? Why is it needed? Let's wait and see if a certain committeeman abstains from voting on this....

(https://s30.postimg.org/x4wkig7q9/HR_2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v0c7hd63h/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on January 19, 2017, 04:33:24 PM
Hmm, mysterious new HR department and a new HR Director. Who will it be and at what salary? Why is it needed? Let's wait and see if a certain committeeman abstains from voting on this....

(https://s30.postimg.org/x4wkig7q9/HR_2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/v0c7hd63h/) (https://postimage.org/)
D'elia daughter?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 19, 2017, 04:44:28 PM
D'elia daughter?
That was the initial plan....

Who knows, maybe they'll pull the position since it's been exposed....
If so, why are they still going through with the ordinance? To save face??
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 19, 2017, 06:31:59 PM
"The court held Shain in contempt for refusing to answer certain questions" what was that about?

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-Committee-Meeting-Thurs-1-19-at-7-30

1) Tonight at 7:30 PM there will be a township committee meeting. They start on time and the public portion begins right at the beginning of the meeting. The entire meeting usually lasts just one hour.

There will likely be a significant crowd there addressing many important topics including the planned shopping center in Cedarbridge, and the mayoral manipulation. Please attend if possible as there will likely be a lot of exciting action!

The meeting will be streamed live starting at 7:30 PM and can be accessed in this post if you return here at 7:30 and on our twitter and website.

2) An item on the agenda for a first reading reads:
Ordinance Of The Township Of Lakewood, County Of Ocean, State Of NewJersey, Adopting The Updated Township Personnel Polices And Procedures Manual And Creating The Department Of Human Resources

Lakewood has never had a Human Resources department or Director and many are wondering why there is a sudden need for a Human Resources department which would add a newly created department and position in the local govt.

3) In a ruling from the Superior Court of NJ Appellate Division yesterday, the court ruled on Shain V. Lakewood Township and Cedabridge. The ruling affirmed the prior courts decision which ruled in favor of Lakewood Township and Cedarbridge and against the Lakewood taxpayers. An opposite ruling would have returned tens of millions of dollars to the taxpayers.....

Part of the ruling says: Generally, "municipal  actions  enjoy  a  presumption  of validity"  and  a  party  seeking  to  overcome  this  presumption  faces "a  heavy  burden."

Effectively, because the elected Township officials decided to give away land worth 10's of millions of dollars for just $10, they represent everyone and they have that right to make that decision.
See here (https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/a0824-13.pdf) for the full decision.

(https://s24.postimg.org/mttqke2s5/CDC.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xtexvzt75/)click image upload (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 19, 2017, 06:43:40 PM
"The court held Shain in contempt for refusing to answer certain questions" what was that about?
Don't you have anything better to do with your time than ruin our town?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 19, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
"The court held Shain in contempt for refusing to answer certain questions" what was that about?
They asked who was funding the lawsuit and he refused to answer.  Obviously BMG just wanted to find out who was behind he effort so they could....oh never mind

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on January 19, 2017, 06:50:09 PM
They asked who was funding the lawsuit and he refused to answer.  Obviously BMG just wanted to find out who was behind he effort so they could....oh never mind
Got it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 19, 2017, 06:51:25 PM
HOLDING RABBI IN CONTEMPT
   Counsel for CDC questioned Rabbi Shain’s credibility by referring to his “financiers” , but he refused to answer, explaining that as a rabbi, he must maintain confidentialities.  When the Trial Court threatened contempt, Plaintiffs’ counsel sought to establish that the financiers were not developers. Despite the privilege, the Trial Court held the Rabbi in contempt, finding that his refusal to answer was disruptive, since he had to step off the bench, apparently to allow counsel to confer with the witness at the invitation of the court!  Rabbi Shain clarified that he was not paid by financiers to bring the case and the Trial Court deferred the punishment stage until completion of the case.  In light of the involuntary dismissal, the Trial Court found that the contempt was moot.   

The Rabbi asserted the clergy privilege and refused to reveal the names of those who provided partial funding for the litigation, since they did so out of moral commitment and not personal gain.  The fear of incarceration cast a pall over the proceedings, making a difficult situation even more challenging.  Although Plaintiffs are not seeking a remand, we ask this Court to accept the Rabbi’s testimony without any reservation.  Acceptance of his credibility is required in reviewing an involuntary dismissal, to be addressed below.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 20, 2017, 12:52:06 AM
Because religious minorities in ocean County don't?

No they don't, They cost the municipality money due to the school aid formula
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 20, 2017, 01:17:49 AM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-Committee-Meeting-Thurs-1-19-at-7-30

1) Tonight at 7:30 PM there will be a township committee meeting. They start on time and the public portion begins right at the beginning of the meeting. The entire meeting usually lasts just one hour.

There will likely be a significant crowd there addressing many important topics including the planned shopping center in Cedarbridge, and the mayoral manipulation. Please attend if possible as there will likely be a lot of exciting action!

The meeting will be streamed live starting at 7:30 PM and can be accessed in this post if you return here at 7:30 and on our twitter and website.

2) An item on the agenda for a first reading reads:
Ordinance Of The Township Of Lakewood, County Of Ocean, State Of NewJersey, Adopting The Updated Township Personnel Polices And Procedures Manual And Creating The Department Of Human Resources

Lakewood has never had a Human Resources department or Director and many are wondering why there is a sudden need for a Human Resources department which would add a newly created department and position in the local govt.

3) In a ruling from the Superior Court of NJ Appellate Division yesterday, the court ruled on Shain V. Lakewood Township and Cedabridge. The ruling affirmed the prior courts decision which ruled in favor of Lakewood Township and Cedarbridge and against the Lakewood taxpayers. An opposite ruling would have returned tens of millions of dollars to the taxpayers.....

Part of the ruling says: Generally, "municipal  actions  enjoy  a  presumption  of validity"  and  a  party  seeking  to  overcome  this  presumption  faces "a  heavy  burden."

Effectively, because the elected Township officials decided to give away land worth 10's of millions of dollars for just $10, they represent everyone and they have that right to make that decision.
See here (https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinions/a0824-13.pdf) for the full decision.

(https://s24.postimg.org/mttqke2s5/CDC.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xtexvzt75/)click image upload (https://postimage.org/)

I read the ruling by the appellate court, and it seemed like Shain's attorney didn't do the greatest job. It seems like they never properly presented a report from an expert witness testifying as to the value of the land. That being the case, it was the litigants word against the Township as to the value of the land, which is why the  judge referenced that in such a case the elected members of government have the advantage.

Expert testimony could not have been submitted to the appellate court, as that is not the job of an appeals court. The Appellate courts only job was determine whether the original ruling was in error based on the information and testimony provided at that trial. Seems like this was initially a winnable case, just poor execution.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 20, 2017, 09:00:26 AM
Video of last nights Township Committee meeting.  Get out some popcorn and enjoy.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 20, 2017, 09:32:33 AM
Township hires the lawyer who is representing Cedarbridge Mall. It doesn't get crazier than this

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2017/01/lawyer-for-cedarbridge-llc-hired-by.html    (see 2nd comment)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 22, 2017, 01:06:14 AM
Let the record reflect that Mike Delia abstained on the resolution to create a new HR department and hire a Director of HR.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on January 22, 2017, 01:13:43 AM
Let the record reflect that Mike Delia abstained on the resolution to create a new HR department and hire a Director of HR.
Nepotism at the local level is not illegal in NJ. However, trading a vote for a family members job is illegal.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jellybelly on January 22, 2017, 09:06:34 AM
Was this supposed to be his payment for not running for mayor?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 22, 2017, 09:11:57 AM
Was this supposed to be his payment for not running for mayor?
Presumably it was a threat, if he is mayor they won't allow her to get the job
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 22, 2017, 11:43:33 AM
This position was planned a long time ago so was likely used as a threat (we'll pull the position if you are mayor).

I have heard from many people that she is highly qualified and would be a great Director of HR and that Lakewood is overdue for an HR department with 400 employees. I'm not attacking the person, rather the process...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 23, 2017, 11:42:51 AM
What a committee meeting! A lot of resentment from the locals. With 500 homes going up in the Oak/Vine area, directly behind route 9 in a very very congested area, I got to imagine that route 9 simply wont be able to handle the overload. And now a huge supermarket is on the verge of opening up right there (Evergreen, I believe).

Is there anything for people who live off of route 9 south to do to stop this thing? Can people get together and sue the place? Why wait until there are fatal accidents?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 26, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 26, 2017, 08:54:58 PM
3 positive changes that were  on our list of 16 suggestions (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/) are now being implemented.

#1) Planning, Zoning and Township Committee agendas will now be published in local news instead of just the APP (Scoop, Voice & Shopper).

#2) Agendas will need to include the address (or nearest address) instead of just "block" and "lot" numbers.

#3) There is an ordinance that will be introduced at the upcoming Township Committee requiring parking for anything over 2 stories in the downtown (an old ordinance allowed 5 story buildings with no parking...

Another 2 of the 16 are 'partially addressed. There were solutions implemented but they may need to be made more robust.

See here for the list of 16 updated. http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/

(https://s24.postimg.org/f6bk8f61x/Changes.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nbtm6kuap/) (https://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yelped on January 26, 2017, 09:38:58 PM
2 positive changes that were both on our list of 16 suggestions (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/16-Suggestions-for-the-Township-Committee/) are now being implemented.

In addition there is an ordinance that will be introduced at the upcoming Township Committee requiring parking for anything over 2 stories in the downtown (an old ordinance allowed 5 story buildings with no parking...

#1) Planning, Zoning and Township Committee agendas will now be published in local news instead of just the APP (Scoop, Voice & Shopper).

#2) Agendas will need to include the address (or nearest address) instead of just "block" and "lot" numbers.

(https://s24.postimg.org/f6bk8f61x/Changes.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nbtm6kuap/) (https://postimage.org/)
Kol hakavod
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 26, 2017, 10:43:56 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/5238117adc975f32f6d4904acb1d3398.jpg)

Is this funny, sad, true, or kefirah?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 26, 2017, 10:44:58 PM

What on earth is TRV?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: David Smith on January 26, 2017, 10:45:12 PM
All 5
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on January 26, 2017, 11:14:43 PM
What on earth is TRV?
That's his last name shortened
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 26, 2017, 11:17:40 PM
That's his last name shortened
Add it to the acronym wiki. TRV-travis
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 26, 2017, 11:20:00 PM
All 5
+1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 27, 2017, 12:06:41 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170127/5238117adc975f32f6d4904acb1d3398.jpg)

Is this funny, sad, true, or kefirah?
Funny - yes
Sad - yes
True - yes
Kefirah - no way
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 27, 2017, 12:13:19 AM
Is this funny, sad, true, or kefirah?
Ask daas torah
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 27, 2017, 12:42:24 PM
Live Traffic Cam outside the Chateau Grand Shopping Center

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/blog-post_24.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on January 27, 2017, 12:51:48 PM
Live Traffic Cam outside the Chateau Grand Shopping Center

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/blog-post_24.html
What's the point of this?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 27, 2017, 12:55:15 PM
Live Traffic Cam outside the Chateau Grand Shopping Center

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/blog-post_24.html (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/blog-post_24.html)
What are we supposed to be seeing there?

As it happens, IME the difference on Rt 9 has not been so affected by development since most of the traffic is from out of Lakewood anyhow. It has been like this for 15 years already. The real difference is that now there is no way around it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 27, 2017, 01:33:48 PM
What are we supposed to be seeing there?

As it happens, IME the difference on Rt 9 has not been so affected by development since most of the traffic is from out of Lakewood anyhow. It has been like this for 15 years already. The real difference is that now there is no way around it.
-1

People who live along the 9 travel on it all day. These are developments along the 9. And with every new one the situation gets worse.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 27, 2017, 01:36:08 PM
-1

People who live along the 9 travel on it all day. These are developments along the 9. And with every new one the situation gets worse.

I remember it being the same for 15 years which is before there were all these developments there.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 27, 2017, 02:02:43 PM
I remember it being the same for 15 years which is before there were all these developments there.
+1 yes, as someone who grew up here, I agree. They've been talking about route 9 for at least 25 years. The state never does anything.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on January 27, 2017, 02:33:29 PM
I remember it being the same for 15 years which is before there were all these developments there.
Every time I'm on the 9 sitting on traffic I count and it's usually 25-1 others to frum jews. That being said each new development definitely does make a difference...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 27, 2017, 02:33:33 PM
+1 yes, as someone who grew up here, I agree. They've been talking about route 9 for at least 25 years. The state never does anything.
You guys are saying that the 9 didn't get worse over the last 5-10 years???
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 27, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
You guys are saying that the 9 didn't get worse over the last 5-10 years???
Of course it makes a difference but not THE difference.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 27, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/eh1zzzL.jpg)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 29, 2017, 12:08:13 AM
Of course it makes a difference but not THE difference.
It used to be a good idea to widen because there was traffic, now it's insane and something MUST be done about it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on January 29, 2017, 09:01:19 AM
It used to be a good idea to widen because there was traffic, now it's insane and something MUST be done about it.
Let's just out it out their that widening route nine is tedious, prohibitive, and extremely expensive. Eminent domain may always win, but to do it is costly and complicated. The next best option is making multiple alternate routes.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on January 29, 2017, 09:25:19 AM
Let's just out it out their that widening route nine is tedious, prohibitive, and extremely expensive. Eminent domain may always win, but to do it is costly and complicated. The next best option is making multiple alternate routes.
To go north-south you will probably need eminent domain anyway. There really isn't a contiguous stretch of land.
Even vine is blocked by Bais Kaila, and the end of vine on one side is the Chestnut area, the other side is a park.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 29, 2017, 09:50:52 AM
Let's just out it out their that widening route nine is tedious, prohibitive, and extremely expensive. Eminent domain may always win, but to do it is costly and complicated. The next best option is making multiple alternate routes.
Had the planning board been smart they would have required each developer to leave a wide shoulder. By doing so most of the job would already be done.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: monoso on January 29, 2017, 09:59:31 AM
 I have not heard anyone mention this idea yet. I think there is room for one extra lane on the nine with a little bit of work. That extra lane can either be used for one way and would at least solve the issue partially, or even as a alternating lane depending on the traffic direction, like the tunnels to and from Manhattan.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on January 29, 2017, 10:02:53 AM
I have not heard anyone mention this idea yet. I think there is room for one extra lane on the nine with a little bit of work. That extra lane can either be used for one way and would at least solve the issue partially, or even as a alternating lane depending on the traffic direction, like the tunnels to and from Manhattan.
Great idea
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on January 29, 2017, 10:08:43 AM
I have not heard anyone mention this idea yet. I think there is room for one extra lane on the nine with a little bit of work. That extra lane can either be used for one way and would at least solve the issue partially, or even as a alternating lane depending on the traffic direction, like the tunnels to and from Manhattan.
The practicalities of the lane switching directions would make it impossible.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on January 29, 2017, 11:08:53 AM
The practicalities of the lane switching directions would make it impossible.
+1 but to have an extra lane in either direction would definitely help the cause tremendously
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 29, 2017, 07:00:21 PM
There are plans to add a middle lane along the entire River ave that would be a turning lane.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on January 29, 2017, 07:04:43 PM
There are plans to add a middle lane along the entire River ave that would be a turning lane.
These are band aids not solutions
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on January 29, 2017, 10:15:02 PM
I have not heard anyone mention this idea yet. I think there is room for one extra lane on the nine with a little bit of work. That extra lane can either be used for one way and would at least solve the issue partially, or even as a alternating lane depending on the traffic direction, like the tunnels to and from Manhattan.

I actually had this same idea but I don't think it would work well at intersections like Pine and the 9.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on January 30, 2017, 04:05:22 PM
There are plans to add a middle lane along the entire River ave that would be a turning lane.

the only smart and practical thing thats been said so far. this is what needs to be done to help improve the flow. there is no way lakewood, the state or county is paying to buy all the land from the lake till cross. no amount of dvar torahs from corey booker is going to do anything.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 30, 2017, 04:55:22 PM
As reported in the Voice this past week:

A Township wide Transportation Improvement Study is being prepared for Lakewood Township by Maser Consulting. The study, which begins in February, is expected to take three months to complete.

Maser requests public input about suggested traffic improvements, and has taken steps to make it extremely simple to submit your idea directly to the company by providing a phone number you can text. Several other contact options are also available. "Input from the public is vital to the study's success" a Maser representative told the Voice. "We are looking for specific traffic congested areas and intersection locations that you feel need improvement within the Township of Lakewood".

Please text or leave a voicemail at (732)284-0929 with specific details including: the location(s), turning movements (i.e. eastbound left-turn), improvement ideas, and any other important factors. You can also send an email to Lakewood_traffic@maserconsulting.com
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on January 31, 2017, 12:05:03 PM


You can also send an email to LakewoodTraffic@maserconsulting.com
Tried sending an email. Address does not exist
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 31, 2017, 12:12:09 PM
Anybody know whats going on across Route 9 from Chesterfield (near Route 70)?
Are they clearing away for a development? Homes? Stores?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 31, 2017, 01:00:49 PM
Tried sending an email. Address does not exist
I'm looking into it. Thanks!

Anybody know whats going on across Route 9 from Chesterfield (near Route 70)?
Are they clearing away for a development? Homes? Stores?
In 2010 they got approval for a fully conforming subdivision of triplexes and duplexes on a cul de sac. A development with 8 duplex structures and 9 triplex buildings for a total of 43 homes and 43 basements and 172 cars...Access to Route 9 only. Shul and playground.

In May 2015 they went back to the planning board and got approval to switch to just duplexes.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on January 31, 2017, 04:28:02 PM
I'm looking into it. Thanks!
In 2010 they got approval for a fully conforming subdivision of triplexes and duplexes on a cul de sac. A development with 8 duplex structures and 9 triplex buildings for a total of 43 homes and 43 basements and 172 cars...Access to Route 9 only. Shul and playground.

In May 2015 they went back to the planning board and got approval to switch to just duplexes.

Why did they switch from triplex buildings to only duplexes? How many homes with there now be?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 31, 2017, 04:29:21 PM
Why did they switch from triplex buildings to only duplexes? How many homes with there now be?
Probably because they realized people don't want to buy triplexes...

I believe the same number of homes just in duplex form
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on January 31, 2017, 06:33:18 PM
 8)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 31, 2017, 08:43:33 PM
 Letter to the editor (http://jewishvoiceny.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16929:letters-to-the-editor-21&catid=101&Itemid=794&lang=en)

(https://s23.postimg.org/6ujujtsq3/Letter.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qp5w5y7xj/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on January 31, 2017, 08:50:47 PM
Letter
 (http://jewishvoiceny.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16929:letters-to-the-editor-21&catid=101&Itemid=794&lang=en)
Here is the referenced letter
(https://s27.postimg.org/clg6qbkxf/Capture.png) (https://postimg.org/image/onbkkgu5r/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 12:29:59 PM
Tried sending an email. Address does not exist
The correct email address is Lakewood_Traffic@maserconsulting.com
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 01, 2017, 01:11:37 PM
The correct email address is Lakewood_Traffic@maserconsulting.com
Thanx
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 01:52:20 PM
A developer recently applied for a CAFRA permit to build 263 units (if there are basements that's 526 families and 1,052 cars) in industrial park between the Airport, the GSP and Route 70. We are monitoring it and will advise when it goes to the planning board.

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/cafra-permit-263-units-51-duplex-110.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 01:58:22 PM
Traffic Study for Cedarbridge.  (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/cedarbridge-traffic-study.html)

Claims there will be no problems since there's only 2% population growth (huh?) and most shoppers will come from other roads and not Pine (hah!) and any traffic will be alleviated by the traffic fixes listed here:
 Installation of traffic light on corner of Pine Street and Martin Luther King Boulevard
 Installation of traffic light on corner of Pine Street and Vine Street
 Installation of traffic light on corner of Cedarbridge Avenue &amp; Avenue of the States
 Installation of traffic light on New Hampshire Avenue &amp; Boulevard of the Americas
 Installation of traffic light on corner of Vine Street and Cedarbridge Avenue
 Programming of traffic light on the corner of Pine Street &amp; Avenue of the States
 Vine Street to be opened from Pine Street to Cedarbridge Avenue

PRV is trying to negotiate for additional traffic fixes and others need to continue to fight for it to be completely denied.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 01:59:07 PM
This past weeks Lakewood Weekly article

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Lakewood-Weekly-Column-Issue-6/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 02:17:08 PM
Please text or leave a voicemail at (732)284-0929 with specific details including: the location(s), turning movements (i.e. eastbound left-turn), improvement ideas, and any other important factors. You can also send an email to Lakewood_traffic@maserconsulting.com
Guys - this is one of those moments where we have an opportunity to help solve the traffic issues (somewhat).

Please please email them with comments and ideas...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 01, 2017, 03:52:58 PM
Traffic Study for Cedarbridge.  (http://=http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/cedarbridge-traffic-study.html)

Bad link.
Should be this:
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/cedarbridge-traffic-study.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 03:57:10 PM
Bad link.
Should be this:
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/cedarbridge-traffic-study.html
Thanks - Fixed my link above
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: ChAiM'l on February 01, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
Guys - this is one of those moments where we have an opportunity to help solve the traffic issues (somewhat).

Please please email them with comments and ideas...

You should probably post in general Lakewood thread as well.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 01, 2017, 04:41:56 PM
Traffic Study for Cedarbridge.  (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/cedarbridge-traffic-study.html)

Lakewood Shopping Village / Cedarbridge LLC

Land - Donated by the township
Roadways - Paid by DOT grants with the help of the township
Traffic study - Paid by the township
Traffic improvements - Paid by the township
Legal fees - Paid for by the township
Tax income - 35 years tax abatements donated by the township

We are so excited for Lakewood Shopping Village and all the traffic it comes with. We are very proud to see all the corruption that helped us get this far. All this hard work on behalf of the taxpayer to bring much needed retail stores, restaurants, and a hotel to the Pine St area. Rav Aharon ZT"L would be so happy that his dream of BMG being on the forefront of corruption and development of gashmius in the Ir Hakodesh will finally come true.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 01, 2017, 04:43:07 PM
You should probably post in general Lakewood thread as well.
Done
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: syp5 on February 01, 2017, 05:55:29 PM
Lakewood Shopping Village / Cedarbridge LLC

Land - Donated by the township
Roadways - Paid by DOT grants with the help of the township
Traffic study - Paid by the township
Traffic improvements - Paid by the township
Legal fees - Paid for by the township
Tax income - 35 years tax abatements donated by the township

We are so excited for Lakewood Shopping Village and all the traffic it comes with. We are very proud to see all the corruption that helped us get this far. All this hard work on behalf of the taxpayer to bring much needed retail stores, restaurants, and a hotel to the Pine St area. Rav Aharon ZT"L would be so happy that his dream of BMG being on the forefront of corruption and development of gashmius in the Ir Hakodesh will finally come true.
Wasn't Pine River Village and Somerset Walk land also sold for $9 million?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on February 02, 2017, 10:09:24 AM
Lakewood Shopping Village / Cedarbridge LLC

Land - Donated by the townspeople
Roadways - Paid by DOT grants with the help of the townspeople
Traffic study - Paid by the townspeople
Traffic improvements - Paid by the townspeople
Legal fees - Paid for by the townspeople
Tax income - 35 years tax abatements donated by the townspeople

We are so excited for Lakewood Shopping Village and all the traffic it comes with. We are very proud to see all the corruption that helped us get this far. All this hard work on behalf of the taxpayer to bring much needed retail stores, restaurants, and a hotel to the Pine St area. Rav Aharon ZT"L would be so happy that his dream of BMG being on the forefront of corruption and development of gashmius in the Ir Hakodesh will finally come true.
FTFY
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 02, 2017, 10:13:06 AM
Wasn't Pine River Village and Somerset Walk land also sold for $9 million?

I believe $15m in total- $9m for Somerset Walk and another $6m for PRV.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Zevi16 on February 02, 2017, 01:13:06 PM
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 02, 2017, 01:18:46 PM
While I'm not opposed to Route 9 being widened, keep in mind that:
1) It will not solve all of our problems. Drive along the many other congested roads in town and you'll see that while this is a big problem, it won't solve everything.

2) The 'askanim' love to use this an an excuse for all of our problems and they want it widened so that they can continue to build high density.... Now that they are taking heat for the trouble they got us all into, they are trying to deflect blame to the state. They want everyone to focus on this and forget about the problems that we're bringing on ourselves by spot-zoning and approving dense housing. Then they want to come out looking like heroes for 'fixing' the problem that they caused.

3) The HD-7 zone is a horrible zone which had led to much high density housing all along Route 9 by allowing duplexes and townhouses. There is currently a pending application (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/appeal-4007.html) to build many houses in the parking lot of Cross Mill Mall at Cross/River due to the lenient HD-7 zone.

4) Widening River ave will also cause problems. Imagine trying to turn left out of the many developments dealing with 4 lanes of traffic!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 02, 2017, 01:38:42 PM
While I'm not opposed to Route 9 being widened, keep in mind that:
1) It will not solve all of our problems. Drive along the many other congested roads in town and you'll see that while this is a big problem, it won't solve everything.

2) The 'askanim' love to use this an an excuse for all of our problems and they want it widened so that they can continue to build high density.... Now that they are taking heat for the trouble they got us all into, they are trying to deflect blame to the state. They want everyone to focus on this and forget about the problems that we're bringing on ourselves by spot-zoning and approving dense housing. Then they want to come out looking like heroes for 'fixing' the problem that they caused.

3) The HD-7 zone is a horrible zone which had led to much high density housing all along Route 9 by allowing duplexes and townhouses. There is currently a pending application (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/appeal-4007.html) to build many houses in the parking lot of Cross Mill Mall at Cross/River due to the lenient HD-7 zone.

4) Widening River ave will also cause problems. Imagine trying to turn left out of the many developments dealing with 4 lanes of traffic!!
Well said
5- in order to pay for it we need to triple the oak street corridor
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 02, 2017, 03:41:10 PM
The PRV negotiations with Cedarbridge have broken down after Cedarbridge refused to commit to only allow stores to open once all traffic fixes have been completed.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 02, 2017, 03:45:21 PM
The PRV negotiations with Cedarbridge have broken down after Cedarbridge refused to commit to only allow stores to open once all traffic fixes have been completed.

anyone know what stores have signed there already? another grocery store?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 02, 2017, 03:51:10 PM
The PRV negotiations with Cedarbridge have broken down after Cedarbridge refused to commit to only allow stores to open once all traffic fixes have been completed.
Keep in mind, that's AFTER they build everything, when there will be no chance to turn back. This proves that they don't even plan on making all the traffic improvements they claim (which of course will be paid for by lakewood taxpayers.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 02, 2017, 07:00:36 PM
Live stream of Fire Commissioners meeting at 7:00 tonight https://video.nest.com/live/qPN5v2DIxe
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 02, 2017, 08:25:53 PM
Someone started a petition to stop construction on Vine Street until the streets get widened.

https://www.change.org/p/mayor-ray-coles-and-lakewood-township-committee-stop-the-construction-on-vine-street-until-the-streets-get-widened

found on hefkervelt

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2017/02/petition-stop-construction-on-vine.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 03, 2017, 12:36:44 PM
Video of contentious fire commissioners meeting last night where budget was eventually approved with modifications.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 04, 2017, 07:17:58 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/redevelopment/2017/02/03/lakewood-vote-more-homes-700-unit-development/97439400/

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Lakewood-Weekly-Issue-7/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 04, 2017, 08:51:34 PM
Interesting article by birnbaum in the yated this week.
Probably pertinent to tbl...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 04, 2017, 09:19:44 PM
Interesting article by birnbaum in the yated this week.
Probably pertinent to tbl...
Can you post here?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 06, 2017, 01:21:48 PM
Here's the yated article   
Here's a sign seen hanging in shuls over the weekend  regarding County Line
Here's the agenda for tonight's zoning board meeting at 7:00.
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Feb-6th-at-7-00/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 06, 2017, 03:16:10 PM
The PRV negotiations with Cedarbridge have broken down after Cedarbridge refused to commit to only allow stores to open once all traffic fixes have been completed.

Well isn't that a shocker
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 06, 2017, 03:26:55 PM
Here's the yated article 
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C39ERENUMAAaJZD.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C39EVjJVYAE72ez.jpg)

Here's a sign seen hanging in shuls over the weekend  regarding County Line
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C39EugqUcAACcKZ.jpg)

Here's the agenda for tonight's zoning board meeting at 7:00.
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Feb-6th-at-7-00/ (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Zoning-Board-Feb-6th-at-7-00/)
FTFT (Fixed that for Tapa)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 06, 2017, 05:23:18 PM
Now we just need a Trump! Nu who's up?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 06, 2017, 11:39:13 PM
Results:

Correspondence:
Letter from Chanoch Herskowitz, Appeal # 3956 requesting that conditions be removed and/or amended from the resolutions.    850 Morris Avenue Block 426 Lot 8, Approved a side yard setbacks for new single family home.
Resolution: Allowed to paint the foundation and put in trees but not required to install sprinklers.

New business:
Appeal # 3978 – Gefen Construction, Block 431 Lot 7.01 & 7.02, 16 Finchley Blvd. HD – 6  zone.  Conditional use variance for duplex.
Just off Route 9. Previously incorrectly approved administratively without a hearing.
Approved
 
Appeal # 4009 – Joshua Schwartzman, 308 Cedarbridge Avenue, Block 762 Lot 19, R-7.5  zone. Use variance for duplex on an undersized lot.  Required 10,000 –  proposed 9,299 square feet.
Not enough parking spaces. Told to resolve those issues and re-apply
 
Appeal # 4003 – Drake Development, Block 251.02 Lots 90 & 98, R-40 zone.  30 SF homes  with R-12 standards.
30 houses, 60 families and 120 cars. Spot zoning Between Drake and Cross and Nieman and White.
After hearing 1.5 hours of testimony, and many people speaking opposed to the application. the board should have voted to deny. Since they were hesitant to deny, they told the applicant to come back at the next meeting with a few changes. We strongly object. Besides for the fact that this is illegal spot-zoning, many people came and spoke up etc. They should not allow the applicant to make a minor change and come back next month. This should be denied and if he wants to re-apply that is his right. The board seems too afraid to vote no when certain influential developers are involved.... There is no incentive for a developer to submit reasonable applications if they can just submit high density applications and in the event that they see they're headed toward denial they just modify their application at the last minute.
 
Appeal # 4004 – Mark Properties, Block 429 Lot 2, Pine Blvd. R-12 zone.  Single family house w/variance requested for side yard setbacks.
Pushed off to a future meeting
 
Appeal # 3958A - Clearview Equities, Block 855.01 Lots 21, 34.03, 36 & 37, Pine Street,  R-20/M-2 zone.  Major
8 houses 16 families and 32 cars. Pine St just west of Albert.
Pushed off to a future meeting
 
Appeal # 4014 – Aharon Mansour, 801 Park Avenue, Block 230 Lot 14, R-10 zone.  Single family with front yard setback variance requested.     
Pushed off to a future meeting
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 12:25:43 AM
This email was just sent to all ZBA members:

So basically no one has the guts to say no to Menashe Frankel....Many people are messaging me saying that they saw that while the board recognized the significant issues here they seemed to be looking desperately for a way out of saying no.

After 1.5 hours of testimony for an R-12 and many residents speaking in opposition - the applicant deserved a NO vote!!!

1) Jerry seems to agree that this is spot-zoning (which is illegal). I implore the board to clarify spot-zoning once and for all. Just because Brian says it's a good idea to rezone doesn't make it legal. The township Committee clearly chose NOT to rezone this!! See attached for their instruction not to allow ANY rezoning in the new master plan - voted on unanimously by the Township Committee in October 2016. Second guessing what their intention may or may not be is not wise especially when they have clearly stated their intention NOT to rezone.

(https://s23.postimg.org/4wwkoyq7v/JF_Letter.png) (https://postimg.org/image/mzpng6m2f/) (https://postimage.org/app.php)

2) The residents who supported it were doing so to avoid yet another school. That just serves to highlight the problem with the UDO that allows schools everywhere. It's the threat dangled to get housing approved.

3) This highlights the danger of bifurcated applications. At the first application they are vague and unspecific since there's no set number of units. Then they get the density variance (R-12 or R-15) approved and at the next application they tell you you've already approved the density.... like Mr. Ribiat pointed out. If you would approve R-12, they can then by right build 30 houses in accordance with R-12 and there's nothing you can do about it. Even now when you asked them to come back with R-15 - all of the opposition still stands!!

4) Cross St. isn't being widened this year or next year. Don't believe their claims. When Route 9 and Cross Street are widened in 20 years get back to me and we'll discuss this application.

5) A rule adopted by the ZBA states:
(https://s24.postimg.org/4z0fb4gzp/ZBA_Rules.png) (https://postimg.org/image/e6snrto1t/) (https://postimage.org/)


​The board did not abide by this rule tonight!!! There should have been a vote to deny the application. I guess now I have material for this coming week's article in the Lakewood Weekly!!I

Since the board was  hesitant to deny, they allowed the applicant to withdraw and come back at the next meeting with a few changes. We strongly object. This is illegal spot-zoning, many people came in opposition, and the applicant  applied for R-12 which you all agreed was wrong. You should not allow the applicant to make a minor change and come back next month. You should not allow (and indeed your own rules do not allow) an applicant to waste everyone's time for 1.5 hours only to withdraw seconds before a denial vote. This should have been denied and if he wants to re-apply that is his right.

There is no incentive for a developer to submit reasonable applications if they can just submit high density applications and in the event that they see they're headed toward denial they just modify their application at the last minute.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 01:20:51 AM
Agenda for the Tuesday 2/7/17 Planning Board meeting at 6:00/

Link to TBL Agenda (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-Feb-7th-6-00)
FAA Agenda (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/search/label/Lakewood%20Planning%20Board%20application)

Resolution Adopting Planning Board Rules and Regulations for 2017
New rules will be adopted by the planning board. See the rules here (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/resolution-planning-board-rules.html)

NEW PLANNING BOARD RULES
Discussion: Designation of an area in need of rehabilitation – East County Line Road
The Township Committee asked the Planning Board to declare County Line an area in need of redevelopment. See the resolution here (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/resolution-on-east-county-line-road.html). We recommend that the board vote NO!!

Oak Street Core Residential Development Subdivisions
9 Applications will be presented for administrative approval under the Oak Street Core ordinance. An attempt was made to vacate streets which has been prevented.

Public Hearing
1. SD 2173 (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sd-2173.html) Shulem Illowitz Joe Parker Road Block 189.04, Lots 188-190 Minor Subdivision to create four lots
Continuation from last meeting. Attempt to split 2 lots into 4. 3 houses and 1 to school. Why not just do 2 houses?  $$$

2. SP 2222AA (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/sp-2222aa.html) Saul Gray Pawnee Road Block 2, Lot 52 Change of Use/Site Plan Exemption to convert existing house to a school

3. SP 2223 (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/01/sp-2223.html) TMV 70 LLC Route 70 Block 1160.01, Lot 253 Concept Plan for a medical office building

4. SP 2219 (http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2016/12/sp-2219-school-dorm-entrance-to.html) Congregation Mishkan Hatorah Inc East County Line Road Block 174, Lots 20.02 & 20.03 Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan for a school with a dorm 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Moshe123 on February 07, 2017, 06:44:57 AM
הכלבים נובחים והשיירה עוברת.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 07, 2017, 10:17:05 AM
הכלבים נובחים והשיירה עוברת.
Actually shayoros are NOT simply being "oiver" on cross street.
 I guess you've never traveled down that route recently.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 10:22:57 AM
And for your propaganda piece of the month!

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/02/first-interview-lakewood-spotlight-in-depth-a-q-a-with-reb-yaakov-jack-mueller-of-cedarbridge-development.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on February 07, 2017, 10:33:57 AM
And for your propaganda piece of the month!

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/02/first-interview-lakewood-spotlight-in-depth-a-q-a-with-reb-yaakov-jack-mueller-of-cedarbridge-development.html
Seems very understandable, whoever called this shopping center a mall seems to be the one with propaganda
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 10:47:38 AM
Seems very understandable, whoever called this shopping center a mall seems to be the one with propaganda
There's so much misinformation in this article I don't even know where to start.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Deal Guy on February 07, 2017, 11:01:20 AM
There's so much misinformation in this article I don't even know where to start.
Well if you don't start, then who will?
Being someone that doesn't know the details, I found it quite convincing.
You should point out all the misinformation. The quicker the better.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dawie on February 07, 2017, 11:02:28 AM
Well if you don't start, then who will?
Being someone that doesn't know the details, I found it quite convincing.
You should point out all the misinformation. The quicker the better.
+10000
lots of yeshivish words, couldn't get thru all of it
but was convincing
whats the misinformation that Adelphia is flourishing?  :P
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on February 07, 2017, 11:04:19 AM
There's so much misinformation in this article I don't even know where to start.
If it's actually smaller than the current GG plaza then whoever called it a mall lost all credibility
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 11:07:15 AM
I agree that the article sounded convincing for those who don't know the facts. I will write up a rebuttal later.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on February 07, 2017, 11:19:48 AM
And for your propaganda piece of the month Decade!

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/02/first-interview-lakewood-spotlight-in-depth-a-q-a-with-reb-yaakov-jack-mueller-of-cedarbridge-development.html
The article is full of misinformation and misleadings.

Just an example "Purchased the land from Lakewood". Yes right,  for $10. LOL
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 11:25:01 AM
(https://s29.postimg.org/owys48znr/Township_Meeting.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y4r0ky6pv/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on February 07, 2017, 11:50:00 AM
The article is full of misinformation and misleadings.

Just an example "Purchased the land from Lakewood". Yes right,  for $10. LOL
also missed a big price of info that mueller is behind BMG which is in charge of the Lakewood scoop
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 07, 2017, 11:50:47 AM
well at least hes on record.
(read thru quickly)
1. Definitely did not dispute that there will be non jewish stores.
2. Im not sure what to believe regarding the townships tax benefit.
3. Dont hold your breath waiting for the new streets & traffic lights. Its all talk, been saying this for years already. Mall will hapen without it being done.
4. Spoke to many people involved, its the first im hearing that amphitheater was supposed to be "an outdoor chuppa" (r u kidding!)
5. Too many yeshivish words used, definitely a ploy to appease the yeshivalite.
6. Nobody cares how much nachas youre having from the 'young lakewood yeshivalite' or how much youre mispallel for the hatzlacha of the kehilla, get a grip.

7. WHY WAIT TILL RIGHT BEFORE THE HEARING ON THE 9TH TO COME OUT WITH THIS......
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 07, 2017, 11:52:46 AM
Iv said this before - fighting cedarbridge/BMG is a loosing propersition.
If TBL takes on this agenda, the organization will lose credibility and political capital.
Stay focused on zoning/ building and traffic.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 07, 2017, 11:53:23 AM
Is there a 30 year tax abatement or not?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 07, 2017, 12:28:32 PM
"purchased" from the township. LOL

Also nice how they spun the amphitheatre.

they keep claiming its for BMG alum. They have been calling stores from brooklyn to come open there.

#firsthandknowledge
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 12:42:51 PM
When seeing this article with much misinformation, I am compelled to respond to correct the record with some facts. I have nothing against the yeshiva and I hope they are matzliach in ruchniyos and gashmiyus but they need to finally begin to take into account the needs of the residents of Lakewood. Our intention in aiding the concerned residents opposed to the shopping Village was not to discuss the free gift of 240 acres, rather to oppose the building of retail shopping and insist that the original agreement of office buildings was kept to. With the release of this interview we are compelled to respond to the many misleading items in the interview. 

The Baalei Batim zoomed in for their vision on an available blighted site, which had been designated as a redevelopment zone by the Township in 1986. Well over a dozen years passed from the time the redevelopment designation was made, but the Town was unable to develop it, and could not afford to put in the infrastructure for its potential development. It was on this dormant site that the Baalei Batim contemplated creating an office park as an anchor and core for development. This difficult tract of land had no infrastructure, it had significant development limitations and issues, the best case scenario at the time might have brought factories and low-paying light industrial jobs to Lakewood.

Cedarbridge Development Corp (CDC) got this land for $10 with the logic that the cost of infrastructure equaled the value of the land. No appraisal was issued corroborating this. In reality, the land is worth $75-150 Million and the cost of improvements are worth just a few million dollars. If this was sold instead of given away for free, it would have benefited everyone in town including the yungerleit.

While the Cedarbridge plan would contain a variety of uses, it included something else most unique to Lakewood – a major tract of open space. The redevelopment plan designated a large portion of the Cedarbridge site to be preserved in perpetuity as open space, as a benefit to the future residents who would be able to live in this area, ensuring that they would have considerable trees and green space near their homes.
As a result of this foresight, Cedarbridge will have offices, retail, hotel and the Pine River Village housing, plus it will have a natural preserve of over 150 acres of land that will never be built on. The natural open space will be seamlessly connected to the sites slated for development, with walking paths and connectivity that allows the residents of the area to benefit from the open space with light recreation.

This was not done out of goodness of the heart to benefit anyone. Cedarbridge would have loved to develop every square inch but due to environmental matters they were not allowed to.

Cedarbridge purchased the dormant and blighted property from Lakewood on June 1, 2000. Cedarbridge secured major funding and worked over a dozen years on approvals and construction, planning and constructing major roads, water, sewer, utilities and retention basins.

Was this the tract that they purchased for $1 or the portion they purchased for $10?Either way, a few days after getting the land for less than the cost of  a steak sandwich at Yapchik they turned around and sold a portion of it to Somerset Development (Pine River Village)  for $9 Million dollars! Hardly a bad deal there! Forensic accountants estimated that although they spent some money on infrastructure, between the money they received  for selling Pine River Village and state grants, it’s likely that they had no net financial outlay.

One parcel in the Cedarbridge zone had been previously designated for senior housing. The Cedarbridge plan kept to that designation, even though it was deemed to be non-viable and valueless by all the major regional developers of senior housing. Those major developers felt that building a senior community at that site was not viable because their typical senior communities have amenities such as golf, lakes and more and they usually build on sites that are far larger than the parcel that was designated for senior housing.
The Yeshiva’s Baalei Batim foresaw the possibility of a unique-for- the-Lakewood olam senior community here, and they kept that designation.  A few years later, during construction, the builder of the property was forced by the then tough market conditions to split the project into two, with part of it built for regular non-restricted housing and with the Township receiving additional payment for that.

They attempted to switch to non age-restricted housing but were stopped by people who demanded that they pay for the switch. Only after being forced to pay did they begrudgingly agree to pay the township some money.

Our Baalei Batim envisioned the senior housing as an integrated component of one master-planned development and we created the roads, water, sewer, retention basins and utilities as one master plan for all the components.
The overall master plan required that we invest many years, dollars and efforts to build it out. We have done so, and have never used a single dollar donated or intended for the Yeshiva’s budget. Instead we used special funds and grants advanced by our Baalei Batim and by financing agencies that were specifically intended for this project, along with proceeds from the project itself.
I note with pride that there are no investors in this project, the Yeshiva’s entity is the sole owner and the Talmidim the sole beneficiaries. The plan is for a mix of uses, consisting of office, retail, hotel, and housing, with various timetables and options on how to build it all out. We kept the housing portion limited to what are now the Pine River Village tracts.

What about the residents of Lakewood? All of the residents? If this land would have been sold for fair market value the Yungerleit would have gained tremendously from their reduced taxes. Also, there were attempts over the years to build over 1,700 houses here! When that was attempted, they were finally blocked by committeemen who demanded that they pay $75-150 Million (fair value) for the land that they got for free. Only at that point did they back down.

They are all Bnei Torah and they are building state of the art buildings, employing many Lakewood residents, al taharas hakodesh, and they are providing Torahdike atmospheres for their workforces, as befits Talmidim of Rav Aharon Zatzal’s Makom Torah. They will be providing ample parking and amenities for their workforce and for the Bnei HaYeshiva, including child care. There will also be a hotel which will accommodate the local needs of the tzibur, which will be the only hotel geared to serve the frum olam of Lakewood.

Unfortunately, ample parking does not exist in most Lakewood shopping centers and office buildings. The ordinances are woefully inadequate and then builders ask for variances on top of that. That leads to cars parking in illegal spaces and on the area streets.

Our focus is the local office market, for companies that typically employ large numbers from the olam HaTorah. Our office building timeline is dependent on their growth; we have seen much siyata d’shmaya to date, and are mispallel that it continues, expanding the opportunities for our tzibur to work in places that are sensitive to our needs.
This also saves our Baalei Parnassah huge commute time; think of a Baal Parnassah who travels every day to Manhattan, he is spending 4 hours round trip each day, times 4 or 5 days a week. That can easily add up to a thousand hours a year – which is the equivalent of 24 hours a day of commuting – for 40 full days each year. That takes a massive toll on the person, on their learning, davening, on their koach and certainly on their mishpocha.

This will not change the need to travel to Manhattan. This will be mostly jobs for women in medical billing, insurance, property management etc. The reason that people travel to NY is not because there is no office space in Lakewood it’s because that’s where the high paying jobs are. While initially CDC promised to attract high tech companies to move here, that failed and we are left with regular office buildings to be filled no different than Lexington towers or others with non for profits, realtors, property management etc. Claims that this will reduce the need to travel to Manhattan are misguided and not grounded in reality.

While so many are moser nefesh to do it, and I am in awe of them, it is so much more logical for a Yeshiva alumnus who goes out to the world of Parnassah to have employment opportunities right here in town. That allows him to keep sedorim, to daven in a normal shul minyan instead of on a bus, to join a Kollel boker and Kollel erev, to have time for his mishpocha and to lead a more normal life. Bringing large accounting, legal, finance, banking, insurance, healthcare, logistics, and tech firms here to Lakewood is a wonderful chesed, and the Baalei Batim who are creating those companies have amazing s’char for it.

If only CDC was bringing in large accounting, legal, finance, banking, insurance, healthcare, logistics, and tech firms as promised that would be a chessed. Unfortunately, all they are doing is building empty building to be filled with local businesses. Note that there is no lack of office space in Lakewood. There are 13 office building slated to go up in the County Line are and perusing the Voice you can find much office space available for rent.
 
A portion of the project is planned as a shopping plaza, intended to serve this section of town. Unlike what you may have heard, the plaza is not a full scale mall, rather it is a typical plaza similar to those found elsewhere in Lakewood. By way of comparison, our plaza is 14,000 square feet smaller (the equivalent of 5 or 6 shopping strip stores fewer) than Shop Rite plaza on Route 9 and Kennedy, where Judaica Plaza and Gourmet Glatt are located.  Our plaza has been designed with much careful thought, and it will have more available parking than what is typical.

And now the crux of the problem. The initial land gift in 2000 didn’t allow retail. In December 2015, the township committee passed an ordinance allowing retail. Most of the committee members have now admitted that they had no idea that a shopping center of this size was planned and they thought that there would be a small shop or two to service the office buildings (Starbucks etc). When this switch was made, the neighbors were not sent notices informing them and therefore no one knew to come oppose.

Again by comparison to Shop Rite plaza, it will have more parking than Shop Rite plaza, while the Cedarbridge area plaza is 7% smaller. This is because we wanted to plan the shopping properly, and to ensure that families and shoppers don’t waste time circling for a spot. This also minimizes traffic circling in the area.  There will be no on street parking, and each entrance has been designed to have superb access that does not slow down traffic.

As mentioned earlier, the ordinances in Lakewood do not provide sufficient parking as it is. Yes they are providing a few parking spaces more than the ordinance but there will still be a parking shortage. Mark my words!! Also, this assumes that the 198,000 of basement space will be left unused – highly unlikely.

We have made many other traffic improvements, including the crucial ability to reach the plaza directly from both New Hampshire Avenue and from Cedarbridge Avenue without having to go onto Pine Street. We have put direct access to the plaza from both Avenue of the State and Boulevard of the Americas, which are the Cedarbridge paid for and Cedarbridge built roads, which have enhanced traffic flows for the entire area.

In 2007 NJ state gave a $1 Million dollar grant to Lakewood township for transportation infrastructure improvement. Lakewood could find no better use than to give it to Cedarbridge to fund the roads. Lakewood Township told the state to reallocate the money and the $1 Million was given to Cedarbridge. In addition to other state grants and Pine River Village profits, it is debatable if Cedarbridge spent anything on improvements.

While we have not finalized our specific retail tenants for the plaza, we would like to see a section reserved for chesed stores.  This section would include a wholesale type of store for basic goods for the families of Lakewood, such as is common in Yerushalayim and Bnei Brak, but which are not yet common here in the U.S. A number of very special individuals have approached us about running such, including some locally who have decades of experience in running not-for-profit stores.   We have also been speaking to chesed stores similar to Bobby’s place in Brooklyn, which “sells” clothes at no charge for families in such need. (As a side note, all potential tenants, including any not-for-profits, are aware that no stores will be exempted from real estate taxes).

We also asked the shopping plaza architect to design a store to be used by different chesed vendors before Yomtov, which helps so many families. Along with these we have had calls from local frum clothing stores, a hardware store, a few group of physicians, a large dental practice, an orthodontic practice, a major wholesale moicher Seforim and more.

Chessed stores. I feel bad for all of the other stores in town that are trying to make a living selling at non chessed prices to support their families! This has the potential to destroy dozens of businesses. This is a tactic to appeal to people and make it seem like this is beneficial. Will this be for specific people or for all struggling middle class families? There are pre-pesach cost price sales but they are not open to everyone.

We were hoping to start the first section in 2017 and 2018, and a second section most likely in 6 to 10 years, as the kehilla grows, and as the need for more shopping develops. This is prudent as building stores that are empty would be very costly, and we are wholly determined to only strengthen our special Lakewood Torah atmosphere with the type of stores that we bring in.  While so many years out may sound like a long timetable, remember that we started working actively on the Cedarbridge idea around 1998, more than 19 years ago, which is not unusual in the world of development.

People tried to negotiate with Cedarbridge. Cedarbridge claims that all of the traffic fixes will do the herculean feat of not only resolving the current traffic but also the future traffic to be caused by this and new developments. They were asked to hold off on opening the stores until all traffic fixes were in place and indeed resolved the problems. Cedarbridge refused. If they waited so long, why not agree to wait another 2 years? Is it because they know that the small traffic fixes will not be sufficient?

At one point we contemplated including a not-for-profit Simcha Hall, which would be especially available to Bnei HaYeshiva with only a minimal charge.  That early draft plan had a related outdoor area setup for chuppos with permanent seating installed, which might also be used for events by mosdos.  It was labeled by the architect, who had no idea what a chuppah was, as an amphitheater.  We regret that this caused confusion.  Regardless, we are not seeking to build the Simcha Hall, as there are numerous other ones going up in town, and since we began planning this component of Cedarbridge the takanah chasunos have become the norm, bringing down the cost of simchos for the olam. Without the Chasune Hall we have no purpose in the chuppah area.

For some reason this is the first anyone is hearing about the chuppa use. At one point thry claimed it was for asifos etc. Keep in mind, if there would have been a wedding hall there would be insufficient parking. While there are 198,000 square feet upstairs, there are another 198,000 square feet downstairs that they claim will be just for storage (and this is where the wedding hall was slated for). It is doubtful that the 198,000 square feet downstairs will really just be storage and not additional retail or other uses. The amphitheater was only removed after the public outcry.

We built or helped build and expand the entire area’s beautiful four and six lane roads that give drivers easy access to the different sections of town through Cedarbridge Avenue, New Hampshire Avenue, Avenue of the States, and Boulevard of the Americas, and which decrease congestion around its parameters. We also constructed pedestrian walkways, all the elegant street lighting, underground utility wiring (which cost more than aboveground but are more durable and help avoid blackouts), underground fresh water and sewer systems, drainage basins, various traffic signals, and more.
The infrastructure we invested in does not only benefit the people who will be working, staying or shopping in Cedarbridge. We spent extra, especially on the water and sewer systems, and on the pedestrian improvements and the traffic lights, so that they can be used or expanded to the benefit of future residents of the entire area, such as I mentioned when speaking of the walking paths that connect to the preserved open space.
We are very appreciative to the Lakewood Township Committee, Ocean County and State officials who are leading the efforts to see the continued improvements and upgrades of the overall Town’s traffic signals and infrastructure. In the Cedarbridge area, these upgrades include important traffic improvements, such as Vine Street from Pine St. to Cedarbridge Ave, which will soon be opened as a full through road. They also include several new traffic signal lights to this area. These full traffic signal lights include one at Pine St. and Martin Luther King Boulevard, and one at Pine St. & Vine Street.

As written above, it’s debatable if Cedarbridge really invested any money into this project (yes this has been vetted by a forensic accountant).

In addition, the County is working cooperatively on adding traffic lights on New Hampshire Ave & Boulevard of the Americas, at Vine St. & Cedarbridge Ave. and at Cedarbridge Ave & Ave of the States., which are all in process, and which are expected to be completed within 12-24 months.

The County recently announced that the next 2 lights to go up in Lakewood will be……at Cedarbridge! Cedarbrige used their lobbying power to ensure that although many areas in Lakewood desperately need lights, Cedarbridge is being made the utmost priority before everything else.

In addition to directly helping the residents of this area, these improvements will help the companies in the corporate park, those in the industrial park, the mosdos in the industrial park, and will help ease the Route 9 congestion, by negating the need for residents who live and will live in this area from having to drive to Route 9 to shop.

The traffic study indicated that Pine St. will only bear 15% of the traffic since most cars will come from New Hampshire and Cedarbridge. We all know that most cars will come to/from Route 9 further exacerbating the Route 9 and Pine St. congestion.

For the long term, Cedarbridge’s future is tied to this area, and we have strategic and financial interests in ensuring that the area functions well, that there is little to no traffic congestion, and that the area is attractive. This means that we remain committed to the area and to cooperatively helping see future upgrades as needed.

Why not do all of the proposed traffic fixes first and then talk about building a mall??
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 12:48:31 PM
Matzav published and then pulled the story!!

http://matzav.com/spotlight-on-cedarbridge-a-conversation-with-reb-yaakov-mueller/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 12:54:07 PM

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Rebuttal-to-the-Cedarbridge-Spin-Article
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 07, 2017, 12:56:26 PM
Wow! I need to read thru this!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 07, 2017, 12:56:58 PM
I think pilot money only goes to the township and not boe.
Since township has surplus and boe needs the money deperatly we lose out compared to regular taxes
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on February 07, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
Honestly I don't see anything wrong with this mall. Selling it at this point for 100m won't lower our taxes as we know all too well and it'll just put more houses.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
Honestly I don't see anything wrong with this mall. Selling it at this point for 100m won't lower our taxes as we know all too well and it'll just put more houses.
So build office buildings which have significantly less traffic.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on February 07, 2017, 02:03:53 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Rebuttal-to-the-Cedarbridge-Spin-Article

Now that it seems pretty clear that there was a lot of hype and sensation floating around that had little basis in fact, it is clear in hindsight that that only hurt the cause. Unfortunately when there are people out there who start spreading untruths and slander about Victoria's Secrets and huge mega malls, even if you and your site are able to stay factual and above that, it hurts the cause when the rumors turn out to be baseless, and your credibility suffers as a result..... These folks would help themselves tremendously if they would think BEFORE they speak....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 07, 2017, 02:14:03 PM
Now that it seems pretty clear that there was a lot of hype and sensation floating around that had little basis in fact, it is clear in hindsight that that only hurt the cause. Unfortunately when there are people out there who start spreading untruths and slander about Victoria's Secrets and huge mega malls, even if you and your site are able to stay factual and above that, it hurts the cause when the rumors turn out to be baseless, and your credibility suffers as a result..... These folks would help themselves tremendously if they would think BEFORE they speak....

It is likely those rumors were started by Cedarbridge themselves. This has been the MO for years, make a completely outrageous proposal, and then when you "revise" it and it is slightly less outrageous, you get it approved.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 07, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
I think pilot money only goes to the township and not boe.
Since township has surplus and boe needs the money deperatly we lose out compared to regular taxes

You are correct. Particularly when the Township has made no investments in infrastructure and recreation areas. High Density is profitable for the Township, and damaging to the BOE. So they keep enacting policies that cause BOE taxes to go up, then when people complain to the committee, they reply that the Township portion of taxes have remained the same.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 07, 2017, 02:19:05 PM
Hes in awe of those who travel to Manhattan? Laughable
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on February 07, 2017, 03:03:24 PM
http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Rebuttal-to-the-Cedarbridge-Spin-Article
Please write a short concise rebuttal most people wont read a whole meggilah, whats the argument against. The pro cedarbridge article was very convincing.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Please write a short concise rebuttal most people wont read a whole meggilah, whats the argument against. The pro cedarbridge article was very convincing.
Just read the italic portion then. It's not too long especially compared to the Scoops article...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on February 07, 2017, 03:18:14 PM
Just read the italic portion then. It's not too long especially compared to the Scoops article...
I did, most of your arguments were irrelevant to the main argument against them witch was traffic and the mall. He did a good job explaining away those concerns. Now if your main argument is they did not deserve the property in the first place you are exposing yourself as anti yeshiva and you will lose all credibility.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 03:20:07 PM
I did, most of your arguments were irrelevant to the main argument against them witch was traffic and the mall. He did a good job explaining away those concerns. Now if your main argument is they did not deserve the property in the first place you are exposing yourself as anti yeshiva and you will lose all credibility.
Okay, I'll update the portions about traffic.

I never intended to call out the many issues with the property but since they spread mis-information I had to correct the facts.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 07, 2017, 03:20:39 PM
Please write a short concise rebuttal most people wont read a whole meggilah, whats the argument against. The pro cedarbridge article was very convincing.

That's strange. I thought that TBL seemed much more convincing. The pro cedarbridge article was clearly written with an agenda.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 03:23:56 PM
The Cedarbridge article seemed convincing because it was not rooted with facts.

Sorry if the truth is more boring than their spin story. Also sorry if I'm not a talmid of Reb Shneur.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: asd on February 07, 2017, 03:30:53 PM
The Cedarbridge article seemed convincing because it was not rooted with facts.

Sorry if the truth is more boring than their spin story. Also sorry if I'm not a talmid of Reb Shneur.
You need to convince the majority of the town who is pro vaad/yeshiva not the people already on your bandwagon. You fell into their trap by sounding anti yeshiva and that's how they will spin it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 03:44:19 PM
You need to convince the majority of the town who is pro vaad/yeshiva not the people already on your bandwagon. You fell into their trap by sounding anti yeshiva and that's how they will spin it.
Again, I'd prefer not to have this discussion with CDC but needed to respond to their mis-information. Would it have been better to leave their TLS article unchallenged? Definitely not.

Also, you're overestimating how much support they have. Many people learning in yeshiva and who formerly learned in yeshiva see right through what they are doing to Lakewood.

Lakewood had a victim mindset for many many years. Even the non-jews assumed that everyone agrees with the Vaad and therefore we must all support the vaad candidates and non vaad candidates have no shot etc. Because of that, politicians pandered to the Vaad etc. Barely anyone even tried opposing Vaad candidates because they assumed they'd lose. Be honest - when you got the Vaad recommendations, whether you agreed with them or not, you assumed that their candidate would win by default and therefore figured a vote for the other guy was a throwaway. Unfortunately, thousands of people have been thinking the same thing and yet they never banded together to stand up to the madness.

Times have changed my friend! People are now eager to see some change and will no longer blindly vote for whoever the Vaad wants.  People have seen where that has gotten us and now realize that if they band together, the (formerly) silent majority can prevail.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 07, 2017, 03:46:53 PM
From what I hear there is a lot of talk about cedarbridge in the BMG coffee room
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 07, 2017, 03:47:52 PM
The Cedarbridge article seemed convincing because it was not rooted with facts.

Sorry if the truth is more boring than their spin story. Also sorry if I'm not a talmid of Reb Shneur.

the way it was written is just laughable. Dripping with juicy words that its all talmibim of BMG former and current and this is all to help them.

PLEASE tell me how a 'chesed' store helps anything besides closing down other stores trying to make a living. Lakewood already has dejanu that just moved into a new store that sells clothing for $2-4.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 03:51:10 PM
From what I hear there is a lot of talk about cedarbridge in the BMG coffee room
Are the yungerleit happy that Cedabridge is taking care of them? :o
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 04:24:07 PM
TLS is heavily censoring comments. The downvotes tell the whole story..... 

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/02/first-interview-lakewood-spotlight-in-depth-a-q-a-with-reb-yaakov-jack-mueller-of-cedarbridge-development.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 07, 2017, 04:48:54 PM
TLS is heavily censoring comments. The downvotes tell the whole story..... 

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/02/first-interview-lakewood-spotlight-in-depth-a-q-a-with-reb-yaakov-jack-mueller-of-cedarbridge-development.html

The up and down votes are all against the mall yet the comments are pretty much all for the mall. You can't make this stuff up

 2 30
 1 31
 1 27
 28 3
 1 36
 36 3
 0 34
 16 0
 0 21
 5 0
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 07, 2017, 04:58:55 PM
Is that accurate that TOTAL square footage is less then Shoprite Plaza, or is that just a gimmick by only counting phase 1?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 05:02:27 PM
Is that accurate that TOTAL square footage is less then Shoprite Plaza, or is that just a gimmick by only counting phase 1?
I'm not sure if that's phase 2 or not, also, it (and the parking calcs) most definitely is not counting the 187,000 square feet of basement space that most definitely won;t be left empty.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 05:02:43 PM
CAFRA permit applied to build 936 houses with 936 basements. 1,872 families with 3,744 cars on the Eagle Ridge Golf Club off Faraday.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on February 07, 2017, 05:49:42 PM
CAFRA permit applied to build 936 houses with 936 basements. 1,872 families with 3,744 cars on the Eagle Ridge Golf Club off Faraday.
The infrastructure there needs to be heavily modified to build that.
But I don't argue with people building there, as long as they don't apply for variances. Building houses there won't eat much off the old Lakewood infrastructure.
Faraday and cross will need to be expanded, they should need to build a connection between prospect and James, turning lanes into all streets off cross and faraday and more to help ease another 3744 cars on to the roads there.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 07, 2017, 06:10:21 PM
I did, most of your arguments were irrelevant to the main argument against them witch was traffic and the mall. He did a good job explaining away those concerns. Now if your main argument is they did not deserve the property in the first place you are exposing yourself as anti yeshiva and you will lose all credibility.

I honestly don't know how you found any of the article convincing. They have been explaining away traffic for a decade, but the traffic is worse than ever.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 07, 2017, 06:15:55 PM
The infrastructure there needs to be heavily modified to build that.
But I don't argue with people building there, as long as they don't apply for variances. Building houses there won't eat much off the old Lakewood infrastructure.
Faraday and cross will need to be expanded, they should need to build a connection between prospect and James, turning lanes into all streets off cross and Faraday and more to help ease another 3744 cars on to the roads there.

I don't blame anyone who build anywhere. They are just doing there jobs. I blame the elected officials. Are you aware of what is being built on Cross and along Massachussets. There will already be more new cars  then you can fit in any connecting road from Prospect to James. Do you think that all these cars are just going to stick to that area? None of them are going to be utilizing route 9, or dropping their kids off in schools on Oak St. ?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 07, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 07:54:27 PM
County Line Rehabilitation was voted down with a unanimous vote after many concerns were brought from the public.

Oak Street - The board approved all 9 applications in one quick vote and did not allow the public to comment on the applications. It's noteworthy, that when we were emailing the planning board engineer and administrator, the engineer told us that instead of emailing our concerns, we should bring concerns to the public hearing.....

There were significant concerns regarding two roads that the developers wanted to vacate. They were stopped and the Mayor committed not to vacate them and yet no sidewalks will be built there because the Board refused to allow the public concerns to be mentioned.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 09:19:44 PM
CAFRA permit applied to build 936 houses with 936 basements. 1,872 families with 3,744 cars on the Eagle Ridge Golf Club off Faraday.
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/redevelopment/2017/02/07/lakewoods-eagle-ridge-golf-club-may-1800-home-development/97613260/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 07, 2017, 09:47:04 PM
Just heard the following. A chabura in Princeton Ave BM got into discussion about this Shopping Center. Getting very angry, a fellow got in touch with Glick and his response was that he's has nothing to do with the ruchnius of BMG, he's on top of the gashmius. Soon after, this yungerman got a call from a man who was directed by one of the R YESHIVOS with a message that if they don't back down they will all lose their kollel checks and Rosh Chabura will lose his job.
As a result of this episode, BMG directed Mueller to put out this horrible explanation of things.....go figure. Sickening.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on February 07, 2017, 10:10:07 PM
Just heard the following. A chabura in Princeton Ave BM got into discussion about this Shopping Center. Getting very angry, a fellow got in touch with Glick and his response was that he's has nothing to do with the ruchnius of BMG, he's on top of the gashmius. Soon after, this yungerman got a call from a man who was directed by one of the R YESHIVOS with a message that if they don't back down they will all lose their kollel checks and Rosh Chabura will lose his job.
As a result of this episode, BMG directed Mueller to put out this horrible explanation of things.....go figure. Sickening.
verified story or rumor?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on February 07, 2017, 10:12:35 PM
Just heard the following. A chabura in Princeton Ave BM got into discussion about this Shopping Center. Getting very angry, a fellow got in touch with Glick and his response was that he's has nothing to do with the ruchnius of BMG, he's on top of the gashmius. Soon after, this yungerman got a call from a man who was directed by one of the R YESHIVOS with a message that if they don't back down they will all lose their kollel checks and Rosh Chabura will lose his job.
As a result of this episode, BMG directed Mueller to put out this horrible explanation of things.....go figure. Sickening.

I find that story hard to believe
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 07, 2017, 10:25:28 PM
It wasnt that exact threat but the general story i have personally verified
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 07, 2017, 10:28:06 PM
Unfortunately I have heard of too many verified stories of people who speak up being threatened so I would not be surprised.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 07, 2017, 10:59:51 PM
It wasnt that exact threat but the general story i have personally verified
care to share?

The point I found fascinating was that the whole article by Mueller was to directly connect and misinform the yungelight (hence the wacky way it was written)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 07, 2017, 11:30:21 PM
I find that story hard to believe
Unfortunately I find it very easy to believe. It's like the story with the chofetz chaim when he was in court and someone told the judge that he must trust the chofetz chaim because one time someone stole a spoon from him and he ran after the theif to tell him he forgives him. The judge asked how do I know this story is true? He answered that I can't prove it to you however they don't say these stories about you and I.
Same here, they don't say these stories about most people.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yzj on February 07, 2017, 11:57:16 PM
Unfortunately I find it very easy to believe. It's like the story with the chofetz chaim when he was in court and someone told the judge that he must trust the chofetz chaim because one time someone stole a spoon from him and he ran after the theif to tell him he forgives him. The judge asked how do I know this story is true? He answered that I can't prove it to you however they don't say these stories about you and I.
Same here, they don't say these stories about most people.
Does anyone else find an analogy to the Chofetz Chaim to justify accepting unverified innuendo absolutely hilarious?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 08, 2017, 12:00:16 AM
As much as you can trust anyone on this forum, I can say for myself it's verified.
Title: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 08, 2017, 12:27:44 AM
My brother is in that Chabura. It didn't exactly happen the way you said but something along those lines.

There are really two separate stories.  The oilam in that BM in general was worked up about the whole mall, and since it's quite a large and "elite" chabura of 200 yungerleit the hanhalah is always paranoid about them starting some sort of resistance movement so they sent a message to one of the hockers there that they shouldn't make any trouble or there will be "consequences". BUT THIS MESSAGE WAS NOT DIRECTED BY THE ROSHEI YESHIVOS, but by other powers in BMG.

The shimmy glick story was with a different yungerman in that Chabura who wrote the sharp letter that was circulating around last week- it was originally addressed to Shimmy Glick.

They subsequently had a phone conversation about it but didn't get anywhere..(I don't think there was any angry confrontation)

A few days ago they had a meeting with Rav Malkiel about the whole inyan.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on February 08, 2017, 12:45:11 AM
I still think he gets too angry to be a spokesperson, and he's already lost all his cred, but HH made his point very nicely there.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 08, 2017, 07:07:27 AM


A few days ago they had a meeting with Rav Malkiel about the whole inyan.
And?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 09:52:07 AM
WOW!!! In a historic low for censorship of the press....

Yesterday TLS was in heavy censorship mode and many people who posted comments against the article had their IP address blocked. People who posted my rebuttal on twitter found their twitter feeds blocked.

The one thing that he could not control was the likes and dislikes feature. There were many dislikes on each pro comment (90+) and many likes on each anti comment. This morning - the entire function of liking or disliking a comment was removed from the site entirely since that was the only way for TLS to pretend that everyone is happy with the interview. Hey if there's no dislikes then everyone must like it right??

This is a big part of the problem. With censorship being so heavy in Lakewood, many people are simply unaware of what is really going on in Lakewood......
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 10:29:00 AM
The Lakewood Scoop is Fake News!!

(https://s29.postimg.org/wv2no531j/TLS_Censorship.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3sodlbgrn/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on February 08, 2017, 11:34:48 AM
Heres an email I sent to the lakewood scoop while I do know it will accomplish nothing but it was written out of frustration

"Dear Editor,

You should be ashamed of your propaganda that you are spreading for cedar bridge development in posting a fake carefully worded interview.

You should be ashamed for spreading lies to the naive ones that don't realize who truly edits you articles

You should be ashamed for "representing the Lakewood news" while merely being another way to spread opinions of the Lakewood vaad/Aaron Kotler

You should be ashamed for posting only the comments that work with your agenda and therefore making the naive ones think that this is the opinion of your readers

Sincerely
The true opinion of the people of Lakewood"
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 08, 2017, 11:42:12 AM
Heres an email I sent to the lakewood scoop while I do know it will accomplish nothing but it was written out of frustration

"Dear Editor,

You should be ashamed of your propaganda that you are spreading for cedar bridge development in posting a fake carefully worded interview.

You should be ashamed for spreading lies to the naive ones that don't realize who truly edits you articles

You should be ashamed for "representing the Lakewood news" while merely being another way to spread opinions of the Lakewood vaad/Aaron Kotler

You should be ashamed for posting only the comments that work with your agenda and therefore making the naive ones think that this is the opinion of your readers

Sincerely
The true opinion of the people of Lakewood"
And now your IP address is probably blocked
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 11:52:38 AM
And now your IP address is probably blocked
Unfortunately true. Yesterday someone told me they posted a comment from the Library and the Library's IP got blocked!! I know many who got blocked yesterday for trying to tell the truth...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 08, 2017, 11:55:50 AM
Unfortunately true. Yesterday someone told me they posted a comment from the Library and the Library's IP got blocked!! I know many who got blocked yesterday for trying to tell the truth...
I don't know how true that is, because the library's IP address has been blocked for years! :) not kidding btw, I know from personal experience that it was blocked around a year and a half ago
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 08, 2017, 11:57:31 AM
I don't know how true that is, because the library's IP address has been blocked for years! :) not kidding btw, I know from personal experience that it was blocked around a year and a half ago
They must've gotten a new ip address since then
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on February 08, 2017, 12:17:38 PM
And now your IP address is probably blocked
Turn your wifi off and on (de-connect then reconnect)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jye on February 08, 2017, 12:42:49 PM
Turn your wifi off and on (de-connect then reconnect)
Proxy
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 01:38:54 PM

Ordinance for first reading tomorrow night requiring parking for buildings over 2 stories downtown! Many have tried to get this done for years with no success and now it's being done after we pressed the issue.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 02:02:49 PM
On ordinance for first reading tomorrow night with new submission requirements for applications:

1) Must submit PDF of plans (in the past it was hard copy and then diffficult to get online for us all to see)  2)DPW Approval for all Major site plans  3) Traffic study for all major site plans   4)Proof of submission to County  5) Architechturals for all applications
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 03:03:38 PM
Someone creative snuck in a message in Capital letters.

(https://s23.postimg.org/o69g5kz8r/TLS_Comment_snuck_in.png) (https://postimg.org/image/sfe67r2hz/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 08, 2017, 03:06:03 PM
Someone creative snuck in a message in Capital letters.

(https://s23.postimg.org/o69g5kz8r/TLS_Comment_snuck_in.png) (https://postimg.org/image/sfe67r2hz/) (https://postimage.org/)
gevaldig. shtims with the username :)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on February 08, 2017, 03:08:28 PM
Someone creative snuck in a message in Capital letters.

(https://s23.postimg.org/o69g5kz8r/TLS_Comment_snuck_in.png) (https://postimg.org/image/sfe67r2hz/) (https://postimage.org/)
That's great!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: JoeyShmoe on February 08, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
Someone creative snuck in a message in Capital letters.

(https://s23.postimg.org/o69g5kz8r/TLS_Comment_snuck_in.png) (https://postimg.org/image/sfe67r2hz/) (https://postimage.org/)
ALOL!!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on February 08, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
gevaldig. shtims with the username :)
Shows how bad the education in Lakewood is
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 08, 2017, 04:27:35 PM
Shows how bad the education in Lakewood is
Not sure how to read your comment.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 08, 2017, 05:21:29 PM
.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on February 08, 2017, 05:30:10 PM
Not sure how to read your comment.
That the censor didn't realize that a comment by someone titled "foobar" was not going to be a PC (from their standards) response. Wouldn't have slipped by anyone else...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 08, 2017, 07:12:29 PM
I wonder what TLS is getting out of this to be the PRAVDA of the Lakewood Vaad. threats can only make you stop from being critical of them. To get him to be the Propaganda Wing of the Vaad would have required significant incentives.

In order for him to keep the dislikes of the Vaad article, he had to disable that function on his entire website. TLS lost all credibility yesterday, that didn't come cheap.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 08, 2017, 07:50:45 PM
I wonder what TLS is getting out of this to be the PRAVDA of the Lakewood Vaad. threats can only make you stop from being critical of them. To get him to be the Propaganda Wing of the Vaad would have required significant incentives.

In order for him to keep the dislikes of the Vaad article, he had to disable that function on his entire website. TLS lost all credibility yesterday, that didn't come cheap.
Let's say Mr TLS had a property to develop.. let's say his BIL had one.. the scenerious are endless.

The point is that incentive to be on the inside is invaluable...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 08, 2017, 08:18:28 PM
I wonder what TLS is getting out of this to be the PRAVDA of the Lakewood Vaad. threats can only make you stop from being critical of them. To get him to be the Propaganda Wing of the Vaad would have required significant incentives.

In order for him to keep the dislikes of the Vaad article, he had to disable that function on his entire website. TLS lost all credibility yesterday, that didn't come cheap.
His access to exclusive info will only be if he's on their side
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 08, 2017, 09:01:07 PM
His access to exclusive info will only be if he's on their side

I think the fictional spin stories are available for anyone to publish
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 09:20:08 PM
I think the fictional spin stories are available for anyone to publish
Well Matzav published and then quickly deleted it...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 08, 2017, 09:21:13 PM
Well Matzav published and then quickly deleted it...

Interesting, I thought they published and deleted your rebuttal.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Crazy tools on February 08, 2017, 09:38:24 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170209/2359aac869939af962c5e8ab0ee3ed4b.jpg)yated has the article.
Interesting how they make it sound like they sat down with the developer (word for word as TLS) doesn't even say copied from TLS...
Probably a paid article.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 08, 2017, 10:16:47 PM
That the censor didn't realize that a comment by someone titled "foobar" was not going to be a PC (from their standards) response. Wouldn't have slipped by anyone else...
Never they're SO educated that the misspelling the them off
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 11:17:03 PM
Agenda for Thursday night Township Committee meeting at 7:30 (http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-Committee-Meeting-Thurs-2-9-at-7-30)

Lots of interesting stuff on the Agenda for tomorrow nights Township Committee meeting.

See the above link for the entire agenda.

Consent Agenda
(standard procedural resolutions that don't need 2 readings like an ordinance does):

#8 - Awarding contract for electronic billboards

#15 - At a recent meeting, the lawyer representing Cedarbridge Shopping Village (Gross) was hired by Lakewood Township to help with legal obstacles to get Vine St opened. (Yes LKWD TWP is paying the Cedarbridge lawyer for improvements to enable the mall to get approved). Now they are rescinding his contract and hiring a different lawyer for Vine St.

#17 - Referring an amendment to zoning regulations to the planning board for review. A hotel was recently approved on Route 70 in the B-5 zone. Subsequently they realized that the B-5 says that Motels are an allowed use but doesn't mention hotels. They would like to add hotels to the allowed uses and request input from the planning board.

#18 - Referring an amendment to impact fees to the planning board for input.

#19 - Referring an amendment to the planning board for input. Changing the B-2 zone which currently requires no parking. Requiring all buildings over 2 stories to have parking for all floors above 2 floors.

Ordinances for 2nd reading
(There is a public comment portion and after this vote it becomes the law)

1) Ordinance creating a new Human Resources Department and creating a new position for a Director of Human Resources.
2) Ordinance updating the Meters and Rates section of the law for taxis primarily related to meters.
3)  Ordinance granting a 5 year tax abatement to Casa Nova (new retail building at 1st and Lexington)

Ordinances for 1st reading
(there is no public comment and after this vote there will be a second reading at the next committee meeting)

1) Appropriating $10,000,000 (issuing bonds for $9,500,000 to finance the $10M) for various capital improvements.
     > Improvements to roads including but not limited to: Ridge Ave, Spruce Rd, Pine St, Ardenwood Ave, Cathedral Dr., Hawthorne St, Lakewood     Ave, Lawrence Ave, Mars Ave, Milton St, Poplar St, Shafto Ave, Willow Ct, Forest Dr. and Shady Lane. Extension of Vermont Road ($4,514,000)
     > Drainage improvements to roads including but not limited to: Albert Ave and Ridge Ave ($8833,000)
    >Improvements to sidewalks including but not limited to: Albert Ave, Spruce St, Bellinger Ave, Chestnut St, Ridge Ave ($1,433,000)
    > Forest Dr. Dam Rehabilitation ($560,000)
    >Improvement to traffic lights/signals ($2,660,000)

2) Changing the name of Grand Ave (Cul-de-sac off River Ave north of James St) to Palm Court (Avoiding confusion with a different street named Grand Ave)

3) Changing the name of Yechiel Way to Hunter Ave

4) Accepting a dedication of a 15 foot right of way easement for part of Salem St.

5) Vacating Ramsey Ct (Off Ramsey Ave near East 7th)

6, 7) - Authorizing the sale of small portions of Cedarbridge (for $1) to the MUA for water facilities (water wells)

8 ) Amending the Land Development checklist requiring developers to submit:
     >All plans need to be submitted electronically as a PDF (at TBL's request to make the documents easily avail to the public online)
     >Written approval from DPW regarding trash and snow for all major site plans and subdivisions
     > Traffic studies for all major site plans and subdivisions
     >Architecturals for all applications (besides for minor subdivisions)

9) Allowing Hotels in the B-5 zone. A hotel was recently approved on Route 70 in the B-5 zone. Subsequently they realized that the B-5 says that Motels are an allowed use but doesn't mention hotels. They would like to add hotels to the allowed uses

10) Instituting an impact fee for developers

11) Requiring parking in the B-2 zone - Downtown (pursuant to TBL request after numerous attempts to build 5 story buildings with no parking).  The first two stories of all nonresidential uses in the B-2 zoning district are exempt from parking requirements. Any building over two stories in the B-2 zone is specifically not exempt and must provide parking in accordance with these standards by  calculating square footage of all stories exclusive of the first two stories.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 08, 2017, 11:23:53 PM
yated has the article.
Interesting how they make it sound like they sat down with the developer (word for word as TLS) doesn't even say copied from TLS...
Probably a paid article.
From what I hear they had their hand forced in publishing the article and likely regret it already. Matzav which is connected to the Yated retracted and it was probably too late for the print paper to remove it.

Feel free to email editor@yated.com if you feel they should not have printed an article filled with misinformation.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 09, 2017, 12:09:00 AM
Nervous that weather will have impact on attendance for the meeting
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 09, 2017, 12:54:37 AM
Nervous that weather will have impact on attendance for the meeting
They commissioned the storm
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on February 09, 2017, 01:21:12 AM
They commissioned the storm
How much they paid? I'd like to get it pushed off a few hours.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on February 09, 2017, 10:38:51 AM
Nervous that weather will have impact on attendance for the meeting
Meeting canceled.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 09, 2017, 10:58:55 AM
Meeting canceled.

to be rescheduled for 1pm on a monday.

#convenient
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 10:59:05 AM
Meeting canceled.
Rescheduled for Wednesday February 15th at 7:30
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 01:00:33 PM
Pictures of the plans and the CAFRA applications for 936 houses and 936 basements (up to 3,744 cars) at Cross and Faraday on the Eagle Ridge Golf Course.

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/02/eagle-ridge-golf-club-duplex-780-units.html
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 09, 2017, 01:22:54 PM
Why cant you sue in ocean county court to cancel any approval that was really spot zoning now that the township attorney admitted that they have been doing it
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: shulem92 on February 09, 2017, 01:23:33 PM
Why cant you sue in ocean county court to cancel any approval that was really spot zoning now that the township attorney admitted that they have been doing it
Because when u sue someone your name is on the lawsuit...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 09, 2017, 01:27:48 PM
I am sure HH and YS will represent​ us. Or get some seniors who are mad about cross st
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on February 09, 2017, 01:29:28 PM
Pictures of the plans and the CAFRA applications for 936 houses and 936 basements (up to 3,744 cars) at Cross and Faraday on the Eagle Ridge Golf Course.

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/02/eagle-ridge-golf-club-duplex-780-units.html

A new Westgate, basically
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on February 09, 2017, 01:32:04 PM
Pictures of the plans and the CAFRA applications for 936 houses and 936 basements (up to 3,744 cars) at Cross and Faraday on the Eagle Ridge Golf Course.

http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/02/eagle-ridge-golf-club-duplex-780-units.html
Am I seeing only one entrance/exit? That's crazy and impossible.
Cars will be pulling in an out every 4 seconds.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 01:36:07 PM
Why cant you sue in ocean county court to cancel any approval that was really spot zoning now that the township attorney admitted that they have been doing it
Typically you only have 45 days to appeal an application.

We are speaking with an attorney as we have an idea as to a legal method to repeal many township ordinances that were passed with glaring legal omissions. Once we have a clear legal path we'll raise the money and begin litigation.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 09, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
Am I seeing only one entrance/exit? That's crazy and impossible.
Cars will be pulling in an out every 4 seconds.
That is what it looks like. In that case we don't need to worry about traffic from that development since the cars won't make it onto Cross St.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 09, 2017, 01:39:45 PM
That is what it looks like. In that case we don't need to worry about traffic from that development since the cars won't make it onto Cross St.
good reason alone not to buy there. The community center/shul looks like it can fit about a minyan in it
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 01:43:54 PM
good reason alone not to buy there. The community center/shul looks like it can fit about a minyan in it
Oak Street Core will have 700 families and no shul....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 09, 2017, 01:51:03 PM


Typically you only have 45 days to appeal an application.

Even if it was approved illegally ?

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 01:59:57 PM

Even if it was approved illegally ?
A way to defeat something beyond 45 days would be if you could show that the governing body had no jurisdiction to hear the case in the first place...

Stay tuned as we work with our lawyer on this...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 04:23:20 PM
Cedarbridge and the gift basket...

(https://s29.postimg.org/4lmac0rpj/OPRA_Between_Committee_and_Vaad_for_Jan.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mofd38nk3/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 04:43:32 PM
FYI - Many tried for years to bet the B-2 (downtown) changed to require parking with no luck. In December I proposed it multiple times to various committee members and others and now at the end of Dec. they joined the bandwagon and now it's on the agenda for the TWP Committee to vote on. (https://s27.postimg.org/46s62a5vn/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/70vbfq81r/) (https://postimage.org/)
(https://s24.postimg.org/6r20kmw0l/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9l55y2y6p/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 09, 2017, 11:13:06 PM
Yated & Voice printed the Cedarbridge Spin Article #Fakenews

If you disagree with their decision to print such misinformation, let them know!

editor@yated.com

ari@thevoiceoflakewood.com
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 10, 2017, 12:16:51 AM
FYI - Many tried for years to bet the B-2 (downtown) changed to require parking with no luck. In December I proposed it multiple times to various committee members and others and now at the end of Dec. they joined the bandwagon and now it's on the agenda for the TWP Committee to vote on. (https://s27.postimg.org/46s62a5vn/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/70vbfq81r/) (https://postimage.org/)
(https://s24.postimg.org/6r20kmw0l/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9l55y2y6p/) (https://postimage.org/)
Who's mjd?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 10, 2017, 12:29:09 AM
Who's mjd?
Mike Delia
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 10, 2017, 07:07:30 AM
Mike Delia
How did you get this email so fast?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on February 10, 2017, 09:26:43 AM
Yated & Voice printed the Cedarbridge Spin Article #Fakenews

If you disagree with their decision to print such misinformation, let them know!

editor@yated.com

ari@thevoiceoflakewood.com
email sent!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 10, 2017, 10:54:47 AM
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/02/oak-street-corridor-developers-scamed.html

In connection with the Oak St Core, the Township of Lakewood authorized a resolution to pay Brian Flannery $138,000 to assist in getting the Oak St. Corridor approvals set up, It is unconscionable for Lakewood Township to pay for the engineering that should have been paid for by the private owners seeking to develop their lots.

From reviewing the amounts paid to Brian Flannery, the Township ended up paying him $166,154 and thereby violated the limit placed in their own ordinance.

This was initiated by a former township attorney and voted on by the committee. At some point, with a new attorney and township manager, this illegal deal was discovered. The township has no business supporting a private enterprise! Realizing that it is an illegal ordinance, the township needed to correct the matter. They made a developers agreement requiring the developers to pay the  township back once the CO's are issued.

Once again, putting developers first and the taxpayers a distant second....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 10, 2017, 12:28:35 PM
http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2017/02/lakewood-mayor-ray-coles-responds-to-your-ask-the-mayor-questions-a-traffic-solution.html

Why not just ask him  and include his response in your response? Also, may I say that we reported this first yesterday in our OPRA document?

(https://s29.postimg.org/57da086x3/lake_carasaljo_300x218.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/h98nudg5f/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on February 10, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
FYI - Many tried for years to bet the B-2 (downtown) changed to require parking with no luck. In December I proposed it multiple times to various committee members and others and now at the end of Dec. they joined the bandwagon and now it's on the agenda for the TWP Committee to vote on. (https://s27.postimg.org/46s62a5vn/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/70vbfq81r/) (https://postimage.org/)
(https://s24.postimg.org/6r20kmw0l/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9l55y2y6p/) (https://postimage.org/)
How did you get this email so fast?
Perhaps this was leaked intentionally that people should get excited about the "beautiful things" the vaad and Co are doing to calm everyone down with absolutely no intention of actually doing them....

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 10, 2017, 12:54:14 PM
Perhaps this was leaked intentionally that people should get excited about the "beautiful things" the vaad and Co are doing to calm everyone down with absolutely no intention of actually doing them....
Possibly. They sent the email in December. I submitted an OPRA request which is how I got the email.

Does anyone think that turning all roads from 1st-14th into alternating one ways like in BP is a good idea??
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 10, 2017, 12:56:15 PM
Possibly. They sent the email in December. I submitted an OPRA request which is how I got the email.

Does anyone think that turning all roads from 1st-14th into alternating one ways like in BP is a good idea??
No way!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on February 10, 2017, 01:12:05 PM
Possibly. They sent the email in December. I submitted an OPRA request which is how I got the email.

Does anyone think that turning all roads from 1st-14th into alternating one ways like in BP is a good idea??
People get the impression that if only there was more parking (such a thing would be very beneficial for 6th & 7th between forest and lakewood) ... the same way it's the common belief that dualizing Rt 9 is the solution to everything...
the other ideas of extending Sunset, MLK & Hurley are deff great ideas.. I don't believe they'll ever happen but they sound great...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 11, 2017, 07:44:32 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2017/02/10/lakewoods-rapid-growth-third-highest-nj/97655172/


http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Lakewood-Weekly-Column-Issue-8/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 11, 2017, 08:33:41 PM
Is the golf couse really going to be senior housing or is that some sort of trick
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 11, 2017, 08:43:06 PM
Is the golf couse really going to be senior housing or is that some sort of trick

No chance, maybe a bit of it
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 11, 2017, 08:55:15 PM
Is the golf couse really going to be senior housing or is that some sort of trick
No chance it will be senior
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 11, 2017, 08:56:10 PM
http://firstamendmentactivist.blogspot.com/2017/02/oak-street-corridor-developers-scamed.html

In connection with the Oak St Core, the Township of Lakewood authorized a resolution to pay Brian Flannery $138,000 to assist in getting the Oak St. Corridor approvals set up, It is unconscionable for Lakewood Township to pay for the engineering that should have been paid for by the private owners seeking to develop their lots.

From reviewing the amounts paid to Brian Flannery, the Township ended up paying him $166,154 and thereby violated the limit placed in their own ordinance.

This was initiated by a former township attorney and voted on by the committee. At some point, with a new attorney and township manager, this illegal deal was discovered. The township has no business supporting a private enterprise! Realizing that it is an illegal ordinance, the township needed to correct the matter. They made a developers agreement requiring the developers to pay the  township back once the CO's are issued.

Once again, putting developers first and the taxpayers a distant second....

So frickin' dirty
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 11, 2017, 10:06:34 PM
TBL:

I heard that a traffic light is supposed to be coming to route 9 and the entrance to Evergreen. Is this true?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 11, 2017, 11:53:54 PM
Is the golf couse really going to be senior housing or is that some sort of trick
Likely just a trick to confuse the seniors.
TBL:

I heard that a traffic light is supposed to be coming to route 9 and the entrance to Evergreen. Is this true?
There will be one eventually and it's unfortunate that the stores were allowed to open without one.

No sidewalks were built on Broadway due to an oversight by the Township Engineer and therefore anyone who wants to walk in or out of the housing being built there will be walking in the street.

The parking in the shopping center is insufficient. When it was approved there was supposed to be a simcha hall upstairs. The applicant presented a 'shared parking concept' claiming that the stores will be used when the simcha hall is closed and vice versa. In reality, offices were built upstairs and not a simcha hall - likely invalidating the original approval giving a parking variance based on a simcha hall.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jo 08701 on February 12, 2017, 12:53:03 AM
The idea of opening sunset and making another bridge was mentioned from a resident to Mike Delia more than a year ago, and he responded that he will look into it.
Good to see that ordinary citizens can really bring good ideas to the table.
It's ok that the Vaad takes credit for it, as long its done.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on February 12, 2017, 08:11:49 AM


The parking in the shopping center is insufficient. When it was approved there was supposed to be a simcha hall upstairs. The applicant presented a 'shared parking concept' claiming that the stores will be used when the simcha hall is closed and vice versa. In reality, offices were built upstairs and not a simcha hall - likely invalidating the original approval giving a parking variance based on a simcha hall.
On something like this who cares??? So there's no enough parking, it's not like Lexington tower where all the surrounded busy streets will be taken by people from that building.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 08:21:53 AM
On something like this who cares??? So there's no enough parking, it's not like Lexington tower where all the surrounded busy streets will be taken by people from that building.
A) On busy days people park in all sorts of crazy places and will likely park on the shoulder of Route 9. Parking variances should never be given in Lakewood.

B)This highlights the fact that people lie to the planning board to get variances approved and the building department often fails to catch the errors before issuing a CO. Finding and exposing their mistakes convinces them to double down on these things. This shared parking concept is a scam frequently used. Cedarbridge wanted to build a wedding hall in the basement of the proposed shopping village causing a parking shortage but using the shared parking excuse. We all know that weddings start before the stores close (especially a supermarket).

C)The main reason we're bringing this up is that now they will need to go back to the planning board for a new variance. At this time, the planning board can correct the previous omission of sidewalks and make building sidewalks on Broadway a condition of the approval. With over 700 families slated to move in, it is incredibly dangerous that the one road leading out to Route 9 will require mothers with strollers and children to walk in the street instead of on sidewalks.

Once this area is built out with over 700 families, this area will be much more crowded than the Lexington Towers area and parking will spill out onto the overcrowded area streets too....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Super Speed on February 12, 2017, 08:43:59 AM
A) On busy days people park in all sorts of crazy places and will likely park on the shoulder of Route 9. Parking garage variances should never be given in Lakewood.

B)This highlights the fact that people lie to the planning board to get variances approved and the building department often fails to catch the errors before issuing a CO. Finding and exposing their mistakes convinces them to double down on these things. This shared parking concept is a scam frequently used. Cedarbridge wanted to build a wedding hall in the basement of the proposed shopping village causing a parking shortage but using the shared parking excuse. We all know that weddings start before the stores close (especially a supermarket).

C)The main reason we're bringing this up is that now they will need to go back to the planning board for a new variance. At this time, the planning board can correct the previous omission of sidewalks and make building sidewalks on Broadway a condition of the approval. With over 700 families slated to move in, it is incredibly dangerous that the one road leading out to Route 9 will require strollers amd.children to walk in the street instead of on sidewalks.

Once this area is built out with over 700 families, this area will be much more crowded than the Lexington Towers area and parking will spill out onto the overcrowded area streets too....
I was only referring to the parking lot for the new shopping center
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 08:51:31 AM
These signs were seen hanging all over BMG. It appears to be an adaptation of the letter sent to Shimmy Glick, but now addressing the public and adding in something to address claims made in "The interview"

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2mhac5j.jpg)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 08:52:40 AM
I was only referring to the parking lot for the new shopping center
And that was what my response was addressing. At one point you mentioned that this is not a busy area like Lexington Towers so I responded that with all of the houses built it will be an even busier area.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on February 12, 2017, 09:00:31 AM
These signs were seen hanging all over BMG. It appears to be an adaptation of the letter sent to Shimmy Glick, but now addressing the public and adding in something to address claims made in "The interview"

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2mhac5j.jpg)
Does anyone else think that this is part of a campaign to encourage housing to be built there?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 12, 2017, 09:04:26 AM
Does anyone else think that this is part of a campaign to encourage housing to be built there?
TBH if they built normal housing  (not like somerset walk) on the area they want to use for shopping it will not have a very big impact on the area, it wouldn't be half as bad as shopping
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 09:46:10 AM
They are not allowed to and will never be allowed to build housing there.

A few years ago (2009?) they wanted to build housing and the state told them in no uncertain terms that a switch to housing would require them to pay fair value for the land ($75-150 Million). The land was given for a specific purpose and if the land was to be built up with housing the township could have easily sold it to anyone for fair value.

 It is likely that the switch to retail in 2015 should have similarly required paying fair value...

What's the best option? Build offices like initially promised. Better yet, recruit large corporations to actually bring high paying jobs to Lakewood as originally promised. If they claim that the economy deteriorated and that's why they can't deliver on their promise - here's an idea.

There were plans to build 13 office buildings on County Line and to declare it in need of rehabilitation. No one in the area wants office buildings and the planned rehabilitation for tax abatement was voted down.  Instead of putting those office  buildings on County Line, why not build them in Cedarbridge?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 10:10:25 AM
They are not allowed to and will never be allowed to build housing there.

A few years ago (2009?) they wanted to build housing and the state told them in no uncertain terms that a switch to housing would require them to pay fair value for the land ($75-150 Million). The land was given for a specific purpose and if the land was to be built up with housing the township could have easily sold it to anyone for fair value.
That led to this....

(https://s17.postimg.org/4edo88y4v/Langert.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7xzly20uj/) (https://postimage.org/)(https://s22.postimg.org/a9sbhmjpt/Langert_AD.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9k9j59j65/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 12, 2017, 10:16:27 AM
Likely just a trick to confuse the seniors. There will be one eventually and it's unfortunate that the stores were allowed to open without one.

No sidewalks were built on Broadway due to an oversight by the Township Engineer and therefore anyone who wants to walk in or out of the housing being built there will be walking in the street.

The parking in the shopping center is insufficient. When it was approved there was supposed to be a simcha hall upstairs. The applicant presented a 'shared parking concept' claiming that the stores will be used when the simcha hall is closed and vice versa. In reality, offices were built upstairs and not a simcha hall - likely invalidating the original approval giving a parking variance based on a simcha hall.

The fact is that Oak and Rt 9 is a disaster. Now with many big schools on and off that road, making a left turn from Oak onto route 9 is simply dangerous. What's the solution? A traffic light of course.

But Evergreen will put one up eventually so how does two lights a few hundred feet apart on a highway work?

If there will only be one light, Oak deserves it first because it is a street not a traffic light for stores.

Unless they synchronize the lights - that would be smart. But keep in mind that although the traffic light will regulate traffic, it will also back it up. Welcome to Lakewood....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 10:20:34 AM
The fact is that Oak and Rt 9 is a disaster. Now with many big schools on and off that road, making a left turn from Oak onto route 9 is simply dangerous. What's the solution? A traffic light of course.

But Evergreen will put one up eventually so how does two lights a few hundred feet apart on a highway work?

If there will only be one light, Oak deserves it first because it is a street not a traffic light for stores.

Unless they synchronize the lights - that would be smart. But keep in mind that although the traffic light will regulate traffic, it will also back it up. Welcome to Lakewood....
My understanding is that there will eventually be a light at both Oak and Broadway.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 12, 2017, 10:49:34 AM
My understanding is that there will eventually be a light at both Oak and Broadway.
Do you see any kind of problem with that?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on February 12, 2017, 10:54:39 AM
Do you see any kind of problem with that?
Ever been to nyc?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 11:01:28 AM
Ever been to nyc?
Hence the problem. Certain leaders of Lakewood have made comments that if BP is dense and crowded there's no reason that Lakewood shouldn't also be...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 12, 2017, 11:14:26 AM
Hanging in BMG
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 12, 2017, 11:17:54 AM
Hanging in BMG
You mean like still hanging??
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 12, 2017, 01:07:04 PM
Ever been to nyc?

NYC has many parallel streets, in a grid pattern, along with their traffic lights, to alleviate the traffic. This will be far worse then NYC.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 12, 2017, 01:09:16 PM
TBH if they built normal housing  (not like somerset walk) on the area they want to use for shopping it will not have a very big impact on the area, it wouldn't be half as bad as shopping

Housing will be far worse, it brings more cars and traffic to Lakewood and the area. A shopping center would be bad, as it attracts cars that are already in town to one place, but not as bad as housing.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 12, 2017, 01:13:10 PM
Hanging in BMG
Looks like you came late to Seder today
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 12, 2017, 01:20:56 PM
Housing will be far worse, it brings more cars and traffic to Lakewood and the area. A shopping center would be bad, as it attracts cars that are already in town to one place, but not as bad as housing.
People will be moving into lakewood, if you don't build there the same amount of people will still move in. Shopping will attract people from all over lakewood to an area already filled with terrible traffic.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 12, 2017, 01:25:29 PM
People will be moving into lakewood, if you don't build there the same amount of people will still move in. Shopping will attract people from all over lakewood to an area already filled with terrible traffic.
I'm not sure how your comment makes sense..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 12, 2017, 01:28:12 PM
I'm not sure how your comment makes sense..
He said housing is worse because it brings more cars to lakewood, so I said that people will move to lakewood regardless of whether there are houses built there.
As for the traffic to the area, houses bring much less traffic than 1000s of cars coming and going to the shopping center all day long.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: cholent on February 12, 2017, 01:33:20 PM
He said housing is worse because it brings more cars to lakewood, so I said that people will move to lakewood regardless of whether there are houses built there.
As for the traffic to the area, houses bring much less traffic than 1000s of cars coming and going to the shopping center all day long.
Ppl can only move into Lakewood as long as those houses are being built. More houses = more ppl moving in
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 12, 2017, 01:56:40 PM
He said housing is worse because it brings more cars to lakewood, so I said that people will move to lakewood regardless of whether there are houses built there.
As for the traffic to the area, houses bring much less traffic than 1000s of cars coming and going to the shopping center all day long.
I'm not sure how your comment makes sense..

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 12, 2017, 01:57:06 PM

I'm not sure what you don't understand
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 12, 2017, 01:59:55 PM
I'm not sure what you don't understand
Another 2000 families (houses plus basements) will not move to the area if this land isn't allocated for housing.

As far as your traffic logic, I think the consensus (and fact) is that 1500-2000 families would bring far more congestion and traffic to the area than a shopping mall.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 12, 2017, 02:04:05 PM


Another 2000 families (houses plus basements) will not move to the area if this land isn't allocated for housing.

As far as your traffic logic, I think the consensus (and fact) is that 1500-2000 families would bring far more congestion and traffic to the area than a shopping mall.

CMIIW but I don't think the area they want to use for shopping is big enough for 1000 homes or anything close to that. Maybe 50 built normally or 100 built like a ghetto, not more than that.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 03:00:33 PM
This is a moot point since housing will not be built there.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 03:07:18 PM
http://matzav.com/lakewood-residents-afraid-that-development-is-breaking-town/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jye on February 12, 2017, 04:05:56 PM

CMIIW but I don't think the area they want to use for shopping is big enough for 1000 homes or anything close to that. Maybe 50 built normally or 100 built like a ghetto, not more than that.

50 acres would definitely support 700-1000 units they way they are building now.

I'd say that if we stopped right now and built every last  buildable lot in Lakewood into retail it would be the best thing that could happen for traffic in this town. The number of total cars will be kept at what they are now. You would just have the same cars going from one location to another as opposed to residential where you're actually introducing new cars onto the clogged Lakewood roads.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
50 acres would definitely support 700-1000 units they way they are building now.

I'd say that if we stopped right now and built every last  buildable lot in Lakewood into retail it would be the best thing that could happen for traffic in this town. The number of total cars will be kept at what they are now. You would just have the same cars going from one location to another as opposed to residential where you're actually introducing new cars onto the clogged Lakewood roads.
Again, residential is not and will not happen here unless they pay $75-150 Million. The question is commercial or retail.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: grodnoking on February 12, 2017, 06:47:58 PM
Again, residential is not and will not happen here unless they pay $75-150 Million. The question is commercial or retail.
Don't worry, they'll find a way to get it for free for residential.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 12, 2017, 06:51:27 PM
Oak Street Core will have 700 families and no shul....

Pertaining to the 700 units off Oak, TBL mentioned that there would be no shul...
 
When was the last time that a development was built in Lakewood without building a shul to accommodate the residents?

Even from a builders perspective, which is all about dollar and cents, won't it affect the value of the homes and slow down sales?



Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 06:56:26 PM
Pertaining to the 700 units off Oak, TBL mentioned that there would be no shul...
 
When was the last time that a development was built in Lakewood without building a shul to accommodate the residents?

Even from a builders perspective, which is all about dollar and cents, won't it affect the value of the homes and slow down sales?
They claim there are enough shuls in the area. Hah. Watch out Presidential and Chateau....
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 12, 2017, 07:05:56 PM
Pertaining to the 700 units off Oak, TBL mentioned that there would be no shul...
 
When was the last time that a development was built in Lakewood without building a shul to accommodate the residents?

Even from a builders perspective, which is all about dollar and cents, won't it affect the value of the homes and slow down sales?
doesn't seem to be the thinking of Westgate
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 12, 2017, 07:13:08 PM
They claim there are enough shuls in the area. Hah. Watch out Presidential and Chateau....

There are a lot of yeshivas/schools in the neighborhood, but far from certain if they will open it up for them. Aside for that, all the shuls that are already in the neigborhood are bursting at the seems.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 12, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
Audio interview with Jack Mueller (Yiddish) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBPpd3NEWRc)


At 1:30 he says that they paid alot of money for the land and that people spread rumors that they got it for free and that is sheker gamur because in reality they paid a lot of money for it.

Wow!! Well, I'll be darned. The contract must be fake. If he says it it must be true right??
Somehow throughout the entire trial they never produced anything showing that they paid more than $10.

He talks about 4 lane highways (lol) and traffic lights (multiple) that they put in (even though only one light was put in and it's not even operational).

Look- if you want the land and you say it's for the yeshivaleit and everyone in Lakewood owes the yeshiva etc that's one thing. Don't lie and say things that aren't true.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 12, 2017, 09:38:34 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByC0SKamXAbPZXVFdElUaTdsUE0/view


At 1:30 he says that they paid alot of money for the land and that people spread rumors that they got it for free and that is sheker gamur because in reality they paid a lot of money for it.

Wow!! Well, I'll be darned. The contract must be fake. If he says it it must be true right??
Somehow throughout the entire trial they never produced anything showing that they paid more than $10.

Look- if you want the land and you say it's for the yeshivaleit and everyone in Lakewood owes the yeshiva etc that's one thing. Don't lie and say things that aren't true.
Wow! He's a filthy liar!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 12, 2017, 11:54:29 PM
I verified- As expected, this rumor is totally unfounded.
Definitely untrue at the moment. However was under consideration.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jye on February 13, 2017, 12:00:36 AM
Definitely untrue at the moment. However was under consideration.

Yea, like the Victoria secrets store in the new shopping center. Love rumors.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 13, 2017, 12:01:29 AM
Yea, like the Victoria secrets store in the new shopping center. Love rumors.
I know firsthand.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 13, 2017, 12:36:59 AM
Yea, like the Victoria secrets store in the new shopping center. Love rumors.

And the rumor about the $165k the township paid a few years ago for a developers engineering.
And the rumor about the $10 purchase of Cedarbridge for $100mm of supposedly worthless land.
And the rumor about the chuppah ampitheater that was mislabeled.
And the rumor about the gift baskets that are sent to township officials.

Oh sorry we have proof of all that already in their own writing.

If you don't want bad rumors coming out against you, don't lie, cheat, and steal every day for years on end.
These people have long lost their chezkas kashrus.

Edit: I should add, that the unashamed censorship causes some news to spread person to person, which is subject to change when passed along. But unlike CDC and the VAAD, TBL doesn't post lies and puts a disclaimer when something is a rumor.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 13, 2017, 09:10:20 AM
http://www.thelakewoodtimes.com/home/a-singer-scheme-from-the-past-he-wants-us-to-forget

read what ralph zucker said in 2005:"All hurdles aside, Ralph Zucker, a township-based developer, sees news of a hockey arena as a chance to create a town center in Lakewood. The baseball stadium and the new arena combined would serve, in his mind, as the anchors of a "lifestyle center" that would include more than 750 homes and apartments, a movie theater, a youth baseball complex, a hotel, 1.2 million square feet of office space and six "big box" retail stores."
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 13, 2017, 09:18:49 AM
http://www.thelakewoodtimes.com/home/a-singer-scheme-from-the-past-he-wants-us-to-forget

read what ralph zucker said in 2005:"All hurdles aside, Ralph Zucker, a township-based developer, sees news of a hockey arena as a chance to create a town center in Lakewood. The baseball stadium and the new arena combined would serve, in his mind, as the anchors of a "lifestyle center" that would include more than 750 homes and apartments, a movie theater, a youth baseball complex, a hotel, 1.2 million square feet of office space and six "big box" retail stores."

Also-
"Jack Mueller, who runs Cedarbridge, could not be reached for comment Thursday, but Lawrence Bathgate II, a lawyer with an office in Lakewood who brought the Devils and Singer together and is helping broker the deal said Mueller is amenable to returning the land to the township.

Officials would not comment on what Mueller would get in exchange, but Singer said he hopes to work out a deal with Cedarbridge in the next 30 days."We sat down with Cedarbridge," Bathgate said. "They will release the seven acres. It's not a done deal, but directionally, everybody's striving to get it done.""
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: mendy from lakewood on February 13, 2017, 06:28:10 PM
Is this website affiliated with take back Lakewood?

http://www.lakewoodlink.com/?m=1
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 13, 2017, 06:30:01 PM
Is this website affiliated with take back Lakewood?

http://www.lakewoodlink.com/?m=1

No
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 14, 2017, 12:58:00 PM
It has come to our attention that the township committee may have made many zoning changes without sending notice to properties within 200 feet. We have requested proof of notice (if any) for a list of changes (see below) and once we determine which ones were supposed to be noticed and weren't we will proceed with legal action to have those changes declared null and void.

In Weinberger vs Township of Lakewood, Judge Grasso rules that: Thus, . . . the Township Committee was required to follow the notice requirements of NJ.SA. 40:5 513—62. 1 .” Pacilli, supra, 394 NJ. Super, at 333. As such, because the proposed rezoning would effect a substantial alteration in the character of the district and constitute a change to the “classification” of the district under N.J.S.A. 40:55D-62. 1, personal notices are required. Failure to provide the required personal notices deprives the Township’s jurisdiction and renders the ordinances null and void.

Obviously there is nothing that can be done about houses that were already built but this may be able to reverse many zoning changes that were not yet acted on by builders. Looking through the list you will see how for many years the Township Committee passed ordinances to allow higher density residential.

First on the chopping block are A)Rezoning Oak St to R-10A allowing duplexes on 10K SQFT lots and significantly increasing the density on the Oak/Vine/River area B) Rezoning Cedarbridge to allow retail
(https://s11.postimg.org/sjrdkvw0z/Zoning_Changes.png) (https://postimg.org/image/8cdxskyjj/) (https://postimage.org/)(https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_7JAaj5655SXNxLUNyNlp2bUk)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 14, 2017, 01:24:47 PM
New Blog post - week in review

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Week-in-Review
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 14, 2017, 05:10:48 PM
Proposed lights and street widening
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 02:21:25 PM
Ikkul and Hazmana sent to Cedarbridge
(https://s2.postimg.org/pxv4q4j21/Ikkul_and_Hazmana.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3yoq2x27p/) (https://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2017, 02:24:38 PM
This ikkul is less than meaningless. R Shlomo Miller has written a number of years ago already that this beis din should be ignored.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 02:30:09 PM
This ikkul is less than meaningless. R Shlomo Miller has written a number of years ago already that this beis din should be ignored.

Rav Elyashiv disagrees with the concept of someone ignoring a beis din.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2017, 02:34:32 PM
Rav Elyashiv disagrees with the concept of someone ignoring a beis din.
Zohl zain. It still wont make a difference here. The entire beis din is based around politics.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2017, 02:36:34 PM
Zohl zain. It still wont make a difference here. The entire beis din is based around politics.
Oh come on, its not any different than almost any other BD around
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2017, 02:37:35 PM
Oh come on, its not any different than almost any other BD around
Just look at who promotes it and which cases have always gone to it.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2017, 02:41:33 PM
Just look at who promotes it and which cases have always gone to it.
Just because they're not working for the powerful people in the Jewish community and instead they're on the other side doesn't make it any more politically charged than the other ones.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2017, 02:48:08 PM
Just because they're not working for the powerful people in the Jewish community and instead they're on the other side doesn't make it any more politically charged than the other ones.
Either way this will at best have no effect at all.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 15, 2017, 02:48:51 PM
Either way this will have no effect at all.
Of course not. But it may add to the PR pressure.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
Of course not. But it may add to the PR pressure.
Nah it will backfire and help them bundle this with all the YS/HH garbage.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 05:31:32 PM
Breaking news!!

SP 2218 Lakewood Shopping Village, LLC
 Avenue of the States Block 961.02, Lot 1
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan and Minor Subdivision for a shopping
center


Applicant has requested to carry this project to a future meeting date. This
application will not be heard.


Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: meme on February 15, 2017, 05:33:23 PM
Breaking news!!

SP 2218 Lakewood Shopping Village, LLC
 Avenue of the States Block 961.02, Lot 1
Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan and Minor Subdivision for a shopping
center


Applicant has requested to carry this project to a future meeting date. This
application will not be heard.

Another brazen tactic.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 05:41:50 PM
They were given a tough traffic review from the Planning Board's traffic expert. See here for the detailed report (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_7JAaj5655TXkyYUtHalZ1U1U):

The Planning boards traffic expert also wrote the following in an email obtained by us:

In regards to some of the Board Member’s concerns, I have the following responses:
 
What impact will the shopping center have on the intersection of Pine and Washington, as well as the streets to the south that feed into Washington which then feeds into Pine?

The traffic study states that about 14 incoming and 9 exiting new trips in the morning rush hour and 31 incoming and 33 exiting in the afternoon rush hour will use Washington Avenue. These new trips will most likely be dispersed to Washington through cut-through streets off of Route 9 such as Spruce Street, The applicant did not analyze this Pine and Washington or Washington Avenue feeder streets. Thus, it is difficult to enumerate the effects this additional traffic will have. From the field view I performed on 2/14/2017, the AM peak hour on Pine Street appeared worse than the PM peak. It should be noted that the proposed development will bring more traffic to the PM peak hour and weekend peak periods. 

What will the impact be on the intersection of Pine and Washington when Vine Street eventually gets opened and a traffic signal is installed there, and what can be done to help this future configuration work best?

 The signal will help draw traffic destined for the shopping center and other areas away from Washington and the other unsignalized intersections with Pine. The signal should also help create gaps in traffic for Washington traffic to turn. The applicant did not analyze this proposed condition. It would help if this were constructed by the time of the full build-out of the site.

 What impact will the shopping center have on Pine St west of Washington St as to the intersection of Pine and Martin Luther King and Pine and Rt 9?

The traffic study states that about 7 incoming and 5 exiting new trips in the morning rush hour and 15 incoming and 16 exiting in the afternoon rush hour will use MLK Blvd. For Pine Street, about 21 incoming and 15 exiting new trips in the morning rush hour and 45 incoming and 48 exiting in the afternoon rush hour will be added to/from the west.  The applicant did not analyze this; thus, it is difficult to enumerate the effects this additional traffic will have.

Does it make sense to have the center built without opening on Pine St and instead only opening on Cedar Bridge, and if possible New Hampshire?

The shopping center only has frontage on Pine Street and Avenue of the States. In my opinion, an access on Pine St is needed.
 
 
Justin DiBiase, PE, PTOE
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2017, 05:59:26 PM
Another brazen tactic.
The fact they they now need tactics like this is huge, 1 year ago it would have gone right thru and no one would notice until the construction started.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 15, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Is it not simply because of the Hazmana that it was pushed off?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 07:09:47 PM
Live stream of tonight's Township Committee meeting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azd7SgStU30) starting at 7:30 - Tune in and enjoy!

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-Committee-Meeting-Weds-Feb-15th-at-7-30-See-agenda-here/

 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2017, 07:48:19 PM
Is it not simply because of the Hazmana that it was pushed off?

This ikkul is less than meaningless. R Shlomo Miller has written a number of years ago already that this beis din should be ignored.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 15, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: TimT on February 15, 2017, 09:54:25 PM
Is he losing it or has he totally lost it already ?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Sammy82 on February 15, 2017, 09:55:01 PM

This guy's great
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 10:00:11 PM
Live stream of tonight's Township Committee meeting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azd7SgStU30) starting at 7:30 - Tune in and enjoy!

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Township-Committee-Meeting-Weds-Feb-15th-at-7-30-See-agenda-here/
Excellent meeting!

The live stream was on Matzav.com and had over 125 people watching live on youtube along with another 100 people in the audience. Many excellent speeches and the Mayor allowed people to speak for 1.5 hours (although he had a right to cut them off at one hour.

The Billboards were voted down.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 15, 2017, 10:16:46 PM
Is he losing it or has he totally lost it already ?
born without it but in a good way
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 15, 2017, 11:29:14 PM
Full video of tonight's meeting.  (https://youtu.be/azd7SgStU30)

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 12:02:35 AM
Ally Morris confirmed that it was pushed off (I assume by the applicant) due to the issues raised in the rebuttal to the traffic study.  (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx_7JAaj5655TXkyYUtHalZ1U1U)

A different report from a planning board member says it was due to the Ikkul.

We've submitted an OPRA request to clear up which one it was.
 
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 01:29:45 AM
New CAFRA Application (http://njpublicnotices.com/Details.aspx?SID=obnrni02hp2lcn2oafxzwems&ID=3333706&NPDID=584297&EmailID=mns%40webspan.net&CID=8293)

CAFRA Individual Permit for a residential project with 222 proposed dwelling units within 6 apartment buildings, a two (2) story retail and office unit, and two (2) story shul. BLOCK & LOT: Block 1160.01 * Lot 228

This is right next to the other recent CAFRA application for 263 units near the airport in industrial park.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on February 16, 2017, 03:36:15 AM

We've submitted an OPRA request to clear up which one it was.

Long live King OPRA!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 08:51:43 AM
I've confirmed that the Shopping Village was pushed off (most likely to March 7th) due the the applicant wanting to respond to the questions issued about their traffic report.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 16, 2017, 09:27:10 AM
what happened to the video cam or the person speaking?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 09:44:57 AM
what happened to the video cam or the person speaking?
Usually it takes time for the two videos to be synched/uploaded. Since the live feed was already online it made sense to just release that.

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 16, 2017, 10:03:40 AM
@take back. I applaud your efforts.

The only way you will have any legitimacy, staying power, or make any real difference is if you put your name and face to your movement.
Otherwise bringing publicity is great, but it won't affect real change.

You need to either run a legitimate, clean, campaign and run for public office, or find someone else who will run for your cause.

Once you have real official power as an elected official, you should be able to appoint normal people to the zoning and planning birds and get this place in order.

Glad to see you were wrong :)
TBL/FAA have seen lots of success so far and the movement is only snowballing.
Everyone wants to associate with winners :D
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 10:12:14 AM
Glad to see you were wrong :)
TBL/FAA have seen lots of success so far and the movement is only snowballing.
Everyone wants to associate with winners :D
Yes we are BH having a strong affect and really making progress. It also helps that Ray Coles is in an election year and wants to make us happy!!

There is a master plan housing density subcommittee meeting February 28th. I emailed Ray that they should advertise the meeting and in response he told Justin F. that he wants it advertised  :)

Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 12:42:36 PM
New CAFRA Application (http://njpublicnotices.com/Details.aspx?SID=obnrni02hp2lcn2oafxzwems&ID=3333706&NPDID=584297&EmailID=mns%40webspan.net&CID=8293)

CAFRA Individual Permit for a residential project with 222 proposed dwelling units within 6 apartment buildings, a two (2) story retail and office unit, and two (2) story shul. BLOCK & LOT: Block 1160.01 * Lot 228

This is right next to the other recent CAFRA application for 263 units near the airport in industrial park.
Interestingly, this land is currently owned by...LIC (Lakewood Township).

We're now pressuring township officials not to sell the land to them.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 16, 2017, 03:33:07 PM
Full video of tonight's meeting.  (https://youtu.be/azd7SgStU30)


Great community input.

I love the sign held up by a guy in one of the front rows. "Enough is enough" and Please say NO". Not very clear about his objective, but there aren't too many choices ...everything is about traffic (congestion, overbuilding, billboards).

Community is holding the feet of their elected officials to the fire. Rock on!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on February 16, 2017, 03:37:42 PM
Full video of tonight's meeting.  (https://youtu.be/azd7SgStU30)


the guy at 1:00 - must watch
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 16, 2017, 03:42:50 PM
the guy at 1:00 - must watch

If you mean at the 1 hour mark, he showed good emotion but he went overboard with the concentration camp remarks.
But at least he got up there and shows that he cares.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jkhein on February 16, 2017, 03:51:04 PM
if my grandfather would just hear him complaining how he feels like he is in the ghetto and concentration camps.... I mean honestly, gotta know your limits and respect for the elderly...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 03:58:10 PM
Great community input.

I love the sign held up by a guy in one of the front rows. "Enough is enough" and Please say NO". Not very clear about his objective, but there aren't too many choices ...everything is about traffic (congestion, overbuilding, billboards).

Community is holding the feet of their elected officials to the fire. Rock on!
The sign made its debut at planning and zoning board  meetings and hence the objective.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 16, 2017, 03:59:06 PM
if my grandfather would just hear him complaining how he feels like he is in the ghetto and concentration camps.... I mean honestly, gotta know your limits and respect for the elderly...
He clearly misspoke in using that term. That aside, he spoke well.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 16, 2017, 04:32:54 PM
any other important parts of the video?

also how long do you think they could keep this up until a strong candidate runs and wins?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Shkop on February 16, 2017, 08:19:33 PM
if my grandfather would just hear him complaining how he feels like he is in the ghetto and concentration camps.... I mean honestly, gotta know your limits and respect for the elderly...
Don't get bent out of shape. Its an exaggeration to get a point across. Perhaps not the best analogy but he's making the point stick.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 12:28:01 AM
Lakewood 25 years ago

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx_7JAaj5655WENCZDdSdkh6bXM/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 10:23:27 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-looks-to-rein-in-real-estate-development-1487264305

Does anyone have a WSJ subscription that can post the whole article?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 17, 2017, 10:27:02 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-looks-to-rein-in-real-estate-development-1487264305

Does anyone have a WSJ subscription that can post the whole article?
search for it on twitter
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 17, 2017, 10:33:29 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-looks-to-rein-in-real-estate-development-1487264305?mod=itp&mod=djemITP_h
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 17, 2017, 10:36:49 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-looks-to-rein-in-real-estate-development-1487264305?mod=itp&mod=djemITP_h
it is paywalled.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 10:37:01 AM
Link to article - https://t.co/W5F7yQhmHK

Los Angeles Looks to Ban Major Real-Estate Developments
as reported in the WSJ
Supporters of a ballot measure say it will give residents more say in planning; opponents counter it will worsen affordability problems

LOS ANGELES—Voters in the second-largest U.S. city are considering a measure that could effectively halt major real-estate projects, the most extreme example yet of a revolt against development that is breaking out across the country.

A boom in luxury development over the last five years has transformed urban America, bringing young people, restaurants, retailers and jobs back to city centers.

But construction activity has tilted toward the high end. Many longtime residents have become resentful of new towers that cast shadows over their neighborhoods of single-family homes and push up rents. Average apartment rents nationwide have surged 26% since 2010, according to MPF Research, due in large part to strong demand after the housing crash.

Now some activists are pushing back with actions that threaten to grind housing production in some cities to a crawl.

The moves threaten to further constrict a tight supply of housing. Housing starts dropped 2.6% in January, the Commerce Department said Thursday. The number of single-family and multifamily starts per 1,000 households last month was about 36% below the 50-year average, according to Ralph McLaughlin, chief economist at Trulia.

In Los Angeles, residents in early March are set to vote on a ballot initiative that, if passed, would suspend for two years any development that requires a modification to the city’s existing planning rules. Currently, such modifications are routine for new developments.

Proponents of the measure say it would affect only about 5% of projects in the city.

People feel the system is rigged,” said Michael Weinstein, president of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, which has poured some $3.7 million into promoting the measure. “It’s all about billionaires getting what they want.”

Many of the patients served by the AIDS Healthcare Foundation are struggling with rising housing prices, he said.

New barriers to development are rising in major cities, either through new regulations—such as requirements that developments include affordable housing—or through increased community resistance.

San Francisco in June passed a ballot initiative that puts a 25% on-site affordable-housing requirement on most new residential buildings, which developers say will make many projects economically untenable. An independent analysis by the city’s Controller’s Office has recommended the requirement be reduced, based on the results of a soon-to-be-released feasibility study.

In Oregon, the Portland City Council in December unanimously passed a similar ordinance requiring buildings with 20 units or more to set aside 20% of units for affordable housing, although it also provides some concessions to developers like tax waivers.

In Boston, a plan by Mayor Marty Walsh to sell a city-owned parking garage to a developer to build one of the tallest residential buildings in the city is running up against stiff community opposition. Mr. Walsh said the sale would provide the city with a $153 million revenue boost, but opponents said the tower would violate a local ordinance by blocking sunlight over the Boston Common and Public Garden.

Despite complaints in Los Angeles about a deluge of development, housing construction now is at only a fraction of the rate of the mid-20th century, before strict zoning rules were put in place. From 1950 through 1959, about 250,000 units of new housing were added in the city of Los Angeles, according to an analysis of census data by advocacy group Abundant Housing LA. From 2010 to 2015, the figure was 25,000, though the city issued permits for about 50,000 units in roughly the same period.

Permits tend to lag behind completed units by a couple of years, and not all permitted units end up getting built.

In the middle of the last century, zoning regulations were such that there was enough capacity in the city to build housing for 10 million residents, according to David Waite, a local planning lawyer.

The adoption of “community plans” in the 1970s and a ballot initiative in the mid-1980s knocked that down to 4.5 million people, meaning Los Angeles is now almost at full capacity.

Thirty-five community plans, each covering a separate neighborhood, govern how much development can occur in each. Updating community plans requires determining the anticipated growth for a neighborhood over two decades, writing new land-use policies, getting community consensus for the changes and conducting an environmental-impact report.

The proposed rule up for vote in March, called the “Neighborhood Integrity Initiative” and referred to as Measure S, would require the city to update all community plans.

The full implications of Measure S are open to some interpretation. Some officials and developers say that, if passed, no development will be permitted until all the plans are updated, which they say could take a decade. Others say the moratorium will run for two years or until the plans are updated.

The Department for City Planning been trying for five years to update the community plan for Hollywood alone, but thus far has faced backlash from residents and a lawsuit.

Developers and city officials said Measure S would effectively impose a moratorium on everything from apartment development along transit corridors to office space for a flourishing tech community and even homeless shelters.

“This housing ban would drive investment out of L.A., kill jobs and stymie our efforts to move people off our streets,” Mayor Eric Garcetti said.

Both supporters and opponents said Measure S has a good chance of passing.

Updating the community plans will give citizens an opportunity to have input into the planning process, said Mr. Weinstein of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation.

Because the existing zoning rules make it difficult to build projects along major corridors, city officials often change rules for particular parcels.

For now, developers say the proposal is already having a chilling effect on new projects.

“L.A. has been redlined from an investment standpoint in housing until this uncertainty is known,” said Sean Burton, chief executive of CityView, a Los Angeles-based developer. He said the firm isn’t planning any new projects until after the vote.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 17, 2017, 10:38:06 AM
You can copy paste the t.co link from within the tweet.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 01:01:47 PM
@TakebackLKWD: 1,100 letters were hand delivered to NJDEP Commissioner this morning opposing the CAFRA for 936 houses at Eagle Ridge Golf Club


http://saginc.org/9-articles/37-eagle-ridge-forms
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 01:12:24 PM
If you don't have twitter - Send a text to 40404 saying: " Follow @takebackLKWD " to get text updates whenever we tweet.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 17, 2017, 01:20:41 PM
What I don't get with most of these meetings I watched, is why are people (excluding HH) pulling their punches? Acting as if the Committee is not complicit in the destruction of Lakewood? The fact is, that these guys were almost all on the committee that oversaw the destruction of Lakewood. The fact is, that investors are still buying properties assuming they will get the high density zoning to build. The fact is, that developers are still sending permit applications to CAFRA for Township owned properties. The fact is, they just requested County Line to be designated a redevelopment zone, in order to give their buddies tax abatement's.

The corruption is still alive and well. Coles may be watching his words, as he is up for re-election, but what is going to happen after the election?

There is no solution with this group. At least 3 of them need to resign or be booted out.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on February 17, 2017, 01:39:10 PM
What I don't get with most of these meetings I watched, is why are people (excluding HH) pulling their punches? Acting as if the Committee is not complicit in the destruction of Lakewood? The fact is, that these guys were almost all on the committee that oversaw the destruction of Lakewood. The fact is, that investors are still buying properties assuming they will get the high density zoning to build. The fact is, that developers are still sending permit applications to CAFRA for Township owned properties. The fact is, they just requested County Line to be designated a redevelopment zone, in order to give their buddies tax abatement's.

The corruption is still alive and well. Coles may be watching his words, as he is up for re-election, but what is going to happen after the election?

There is no solution with this group. At least 3 of them need to resign or be booted out.
Maybe Coles won't run again after all the pressure...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 17, 2017, 01:58:55 PM
Maybe Coles won't run again after all the pressure...
He's certainly playing to win at this point..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 17, 2017, 02:06:10 PM
He's certainly playing to win at this point..
+1 as soon as elections are over he will sing a completely different tune
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 17, 2017, 02:57:42 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/redevelopment/2017/02/17/how-lakewood-allowed-shopping-mall-cedarbridge/97604510/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 17, 2017, 03:12:27 PM
+1 as soon as elections are over he will sing a completely different tune
Someone needs to run against him. He will be easy to defeat, and it well send a shocking message to the town owners.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 03:22:52 PM
Someone needs to run against him. He will be easy to defeat, and it well send a shocking message to the town owners.
In the past everyone in Lakewood was apathetic. We had a victim mindset. Everyone assumed that the 'chosen' candidate was a shoo in and therefore:
A) No real candidates went up against them
B) The orthodox blindly followed the 'chosen' candidate for lack of better options
C) The non jewish seniors weren't motivated to vote since they knew the non-'chosen' candidate was just a ballot placeholder who was not going to win.

Even with all this, the committeemen sometimes won by relatively small margins

This victim mindset and apathy is what allowed our elections to be tightly controlled for many years.

That can all change. Once a good viable candidate comes forth - they can be presented as someone who will be non-partisan and have no alliance to the powers that be. The seniors will be motivated to come out in big numbers. The masses in orthodox  community who are fed up with the corruption will be motivated to get out the vote. The Lakewood community will show that those days of blindly following certain suggested candidates who have been on the committee for far too long already are finally over.

Term limits for Lakewood anyone?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 17, 2017, 03:27:28 PM
In the past everyone in Lakewood was apathetic. We had a victim mindset. Everyone assumed that the 'chosen' candidate was a shoo in and therefore:
Question, How long have you been living in Lakewood?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: HBS on February 17, 2017, 03:58:41 PM
Question, How long have you been living in Lakewood?
It's not like a vaad candidate has never been good. E.g., Isaac Ackerman.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: jackofall on February 17, 2017, 03:58:46 PM
Keep on voting in the same candidates over and over again and expecting different results.......
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 17, 2017, 04:11:12 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/redevelopment/2017/02/17/how-lakewood-allowed-shopping-mall-cedarbridge/97604510/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 18, 2017, 07:15:14 PM
See our weekly column in The Lakewood Weekly page 15

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Lakewood-Weekly-Column-Issue-9/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on February 18, 2017, 08:38:31 PM
See our weekly column in The Lakewood Weekly page 15

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Lakewood-Weekly-Column-Issue-9/
Just curious why does the planning board lack jurisdiction to hear the Cedabridge plan?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 18, 2017, 08:50:46 PM
Just curious why does the planning board lack jurisdiction to hear the Cedabridge plan?
The lawsuit could reverse the zoning that allows retail. Once the lawsuit is filed, we could make the argument that the planning board has no jurisdiction to rule on an application for a shopping center when there is open litigation that will likely result in the ruling that retail was never legally allowed there.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 19, 2017, 10:55:27 AM
www.takebacklakewood.com had over 10,000 hits in just the past month and over 25,000 hits from when we started the site a few months ago.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 19, 2017, 11:38:25 AM
#yated
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2017, 11:39:07 AM
That's the Yated "disclaimer" on last week's article.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2017, 11:40:07 AM
www.takebacklakewood.com had over 10,000 hits in just the past month and over 25,000 hits from when we started the site a few months ago.
Start monetizing it!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on February 19, 2017, 12:20:50 PM
The lawsuit could reverse the zoning that allows retail. Once the lawsuit is filed, we could make the argument that the planning board has no jurisdiction to rule on an application for a shopping center when there is open litigation that will likely result in the ruling that retail was never legally allowed there.
"Likely Result" Is that so?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 19, 2017, 12:26:11 PM
"Likely Result" Is that so?
So it seems.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 19, 2017, 02:19:03 PM
Maybe we can start a boycott of the new quick check since the property is owned by JM and he is planning on making more money by having the mall next door
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: churnbabychurn on February 19, 2017, 03:07:36 PM
JM?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 19, 2017, 03:09:47 PM
JM?
Jack mueller
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: nucheiner on February 19, 2017, 04:20:34 PM
Jack mueller
Jack Mueller is for the most part a hired hand. I don't see the point in killing the messenger..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 19, 2017, 04:26:28 PM
Easier than fighting the sender. plus if no one wants to be their Messenger than it will be a lot harder for them. Make AK come down to the planning board
 to get screamed at
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: joeberg on February 19, 2017, 05:26:14 PM
Question, How long have you been living in Lakewood?
BUHP
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on February 19, 2017, 11:03:25 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-looks-to-rein-in-real-estate-development-1487264305

Does anyone have a WSJ subscription that can post the whole article?
Absolutely not relevant to Lakewood. Happy to elaborate if needed.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 19, 2017, 11:05:28 PM
Absolutely not relevant to Lakewood. Happy to elaborate if needed.
I'm sure there are a thousand differences. The one thing that it does show (and the reason that I found it relevant) is that a moratorium on variances is doable (when needed).
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: thaber on February 19, 2017, 11:10:45 PM
I'm sure there are a thousand differences. The one thing that it does show (and the reason that I found it relevant) is that a moratorium on variances is doable (when needed).
It's doable in Lakewood. It's not doable in LA. Also, what they're proposing is a moratorium on all approvals until the building code is revised. That's absolutely ridiculous, even in Lakewood. Variances are not easily granted in LA, and the development people have issues with is permitted by code, not a variance.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 20, 2017, 01:22:33 PM
anyone know whats with the fire elections? seems like loigman might lose by 1 vote.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: MidwestJoe on February 20, 2017, 05:49:11 PM
I'm sure there are a thousand differences. The one thing that it does show (and the reason that I found it relevant) is that a moratorium on variances is doable (when needed).

In 2003 the Supreme Court ruled that a temporary moratorium on building (3 years) is legal and does not consititute an illegal taking of land Tahoe-Sierra Preservation Council, Inc. v. Tahoe Regional
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Jellybelly on February 20, 2017, 08:01:56 PM
Start monetizing it!
I don't think any business would be dumb enough to advertise there...
Not a good idea to start up with the establishment
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 20, 2017, 08:29:27 PM
I don't think any business would be dumb enough to advertise there...
Not a good idea to start up with the establishment
Google ads
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 20, 2017, 08:58:34 PM
If TBL would form a PAC would that require every publication and website  to accept  a paid ad for them since they accept ones from the VAAD
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aro123 on February 20, 2017, 11:20:36 PM
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/redevelopment/2017/02/20/lakewood-residents-demand-hearing-over-1800-home-plan/98148994/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 21, 2017, 09:03:57 AM
Planning Board meeting tonight at 6:00

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-2-21-at-6-00/
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 21, 2017, 09:09:40 AM
The Lakewood Democratic Club is meeting tonight - Tuesday, February 21st at 7 pm.  The meeting will be held in the municipal building, 2nd floor, Room "C".

If you want to get involved in Lakewood politics and are a registered Democrat - come to the meeting and join.

Here is a list (http://www.co.ocean.nj.us//WebContentFiles//71b61b7e-dd73-4f0c-8071-3845443018a9.pdf) of all of the people in the Lakewood Democratic club. Yes, there are only 18 members!! That means that the candidates for township committee on the democratic ticket are chosen by probably less than 10 people!!

Get involved!. If you are a registered democrat, come along and bring your friends. If you are not a registered democrat, you can register here. (http://www.state.nj.us/state/elections/form_pdf/party-affiliation-form.pdf)
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Eliyohu on February 21, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
This is a lot of work and maintenance but would make things feel a little more real to people; making a interactive map of lakewood with all proposed variances and construction, current construction, paper streets etc and when clicked on any pertinent info owner, what's proposed, when there will be a hearing what the decision was. With options to suggest an edit etc.. I would suggest a user based system but I'd be afraid of it getting sabotaged..
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yuneeq on February 21, 2017, 12:11:15 PM
This is a lot of work and maintenance but would make things feel a little more real to people; making a interactive map of lakewood with all proposed variances and construction, current construction, paper streets etc and when clicked on any pertinent info owner, what's proposed, when there will be a hearing what the decision was. With options to suggest an edit etc.. I would suggest a user based system but I'd be afraid of it getting sabotaged..

You can easily do this in google maps
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 21, 2017, 05:48:07 PM
Planning Board meeting tonight at 6:00

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Planning-Board-Meeting-Tues-2-21-at-6-00/
Live stream of 6:00 Planning Board meeting https://youtu.be/rfBbKoxsVKY
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 21, 2017, 10:25:41 PM
Ocean County Board of Elections counting the ballots leading to a tie for the fire commissioner seat. See 21:30 where Shenky's (Vaad) seat on the board was questioned.

https://youtu.be/fI1Igeqn9Ec
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 21, 2017, 10:54:39 PM
Live stream of 6:00 Planning Board meeting https://youtu.be/rfBbKoxsVKY
The Planning Board replay video is now available at the same link

https://youtu.be/rfBbKoxsVKY
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 22, 2017, 06:41:47 PM

OPRA Special:

 See all closed Township Committee, LDC and LIC meeting minutes from 2015 and 2016

http://www.takebacklakewood.com/blogs/post/Closed-Meeting-Minutes

#LKWDwikileaks
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 22, 2017, 07:13:19 PM
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 22, 2017, 10:40:20 PM
For those who are following the CAFRAs...

There were 2 CAFRA applications in industrial park. One for 263 townhouses and one for 222 apartments. They are next to each other off Bennett road (near Fedex) with access from Route 70 and Bennett and are bordered by the GSP, Airport, Route 70 and the Cogen energy plant (the perfect place to raise a family!)

The reason that so many CAFRAs are coming in now is because CAFRA usually only allows up to 35% of coverage (so 65% of the property needs to be unbuilt). Due to hurricane Sandy (which crippled Lakewood right??) they are allowing extra building so you can go up to 75% coverage. That extra allowance expires at the end of March 2017. Applicants are trying to get in applications before the deadline to take advantage of 75% coverage.

We found out that the town still owns the land for 222 houses!! We and others told the township to stop the sale and the township decided to rescind the sale contract so the 222 is off the table!!

Now the developer says he wont be able to build the 263 either because he was hoping to build both together as one huge development with 485 residences and 970 cars (assuming no basements).

So why is that zone (smack in the middle of industrial park) zoned for residential? The answer goes back to 2012 when Jack Mueller wanted to build Cedar Woods (by Quickcheck). He got the Township Committee to change the zone to allow residential in industrial park to be able to build Cedar Woods. The crazy thing is that the ordinance was part of the consent agenda (considered routine non controversial items) and the public was not noticed and there was no opportunity for public discussion and a first and 2nd reading. If a lawsuit was filed the ordinance wouklkd easily be declared null and void. Unfortunately, for years the township committee changed all sorts of zones to allow high density residential.  As a matter of fact, at that same meeting in 2012 they passed: Allowing residential in ROP zone (office park area), changing zone in Spruce area from R40 to R12, etc.

1) The zone should have never allowed residential.
2) CAFRA really shouldn't allow more than 35% coverage.
3) There are many variances on the application
4) Building residential in an industrial area is bad for the area
5) This will clog up the entrance to Fed Ex, UPS is leaving Lakewood. We don't want to chase out FedEx.
6) Residential COSTS the township money (increasing our taxes) and commercial/industrial causes the township to EARN money
7) 970 cars will clog up the area causing other businesses to leave
8 ) The site is right next to the Cogen plant which is an environmental problem right next to thousands of kids
9) Hundreds of cars will be pulling/merging onto Route 70 causing many accidents on a high speed road right where all the GSP traffic is exiting
10) The LIC (township entity that owns the land) is supposed to promote industrial uses in industrial park. They should NOT be selling land for apartment buildings.

Through the public speaking up, we have avoided this whole project!!
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 22, 2017, 11:03:36 PM
The whole CAFRA 75% exemption makes no sense. Sandy caused a lot of damage so lets now build even more densely?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yoohoo on February 23, 2017, 12:05:46 AM
UPS is leaving? I'm there all the time. There isn't a UPS Store anywhere nearby.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 23, 2017, 12:30:02 AM
UPS is leaving? I'm there all the time. There isn't a UPS Store anywhere nearby.
Yes - unfortunately. With all of the schools in the area they decided they are moving out. A huge loss to Lakewood.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: hocker on February 23, 2017, 01:17:44 AM

Now the developer says he wont be able to build the 263 either because he was hoping to build both together as one huge development with 485 residences and 970 cars (assuming no basements).

Through the public speaking up, we have avoided this whole project!!
I call BS. The developer will be building the 263 units, unless you put up a fight with the DEP. The ONLY way I'd believe him if he actually withdraws his application.
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: Dave321 on February 23, 2017, 09:47:33 AM
Ocean County Board of Elections counting the ballots leading to a tie for the fire commissioner seat. See 21:30 where Shenky's (Vaad) seat on the board was questioned.

https://youtu.be/fI1Igeqn9Ec

a shanda. question was asked perfectly. he controls everything, how can he endorse and have a seat??
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 23, 2017, 11:03:48 AM
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: yudamaan on February 23, 2017, 11:28:42 AM
Yes - unfortunately. With all of the schools in the area they decided they are moving out. A huge loss to Lakewood.
Anyone know when they're leaving?
Will they be opening a new location nearby?
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: YitzyS on February 23, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
There is a UPS Store in Jackson. I don't know if it will do the trick, I'm just saying...
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: aygart on February 23, 2017, 03:00:27 PM
There is a UPS Store in Jackson. I don't know if it will do the trick, I'm just saying...
also howell
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: avromie7 on February 23, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
Brick too
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 23, 2017, 03:31:36 PM
We are losing a UPS hub. When a package is dropped off in the brick UPS Store, it is probably then brought to the Lakewood Hub at the end of the day. When a package comes in from somewhere else to Brick, it passes through the Lakewood hub.

Now, the nearest hub will be a much further away and our packages will be routed through there
Title: Re: Take Back Lakewood
Post by: takebacklakewood on February 23, 2017,