Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2016, 06:16:12 PM
https://www.elal.com/en/More-Info/Pages/hp/Announcement-131116.aspx
https://www.elal.com/en/More-Info/Pages/hp/Announcement-NYC131116.aspx
אל על - הכי בבית בעולם!
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2016, 06:22:31 PM
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-total-strike-looms-at-el-al-1001160636
http://hamodia.com/2016/11/13/el-al-workers-prepare-to-call-general-strike/
Post by: mmgfarb on November 13, 2016, 06:24:47 PM
Post by: Yammer on November 13, 2016, 06:28:19 PM
I was on a NY -TLV flight over 10 tears ago when we were diverted mid flight to Budapest Hungary because of a strike at Ben-Gurion...
Post by: ExGingi on November 13, 2016, 06:28:52 PM
Can someone please fix the spelling error in the title? It's really bothering me.You can fix it by adding many posts, eventually you won't even see the title, it's a form of therapy (as is bashing ELAL ;D)
Post by: ExGingi on November 13, 2016, 06:30:33 PM
Been there done that....This is different. That might have been LLBG strike, whereas this is an ongoing problem ELAL is having with their Pilot Union.
I was on a NY -TLV flight over 10 tears ago when we were diverted mid flight to Budapest Hungary because of a strike at Ben-Gurion...
What a shame that DL cancelled their second JFK-TLV flight, rather than made it a daily flight.
Post by: mmgfarb on November 13, 2016, 06:31:01 PM
You can fix it by adding many posts, eventually you won't even see the title, it's a form of therapy (as is bashing ELAL ;D)I'm on Tapa, it's always there, watching me, taunting me.....
Post by: ExGingi on November 13, 2016, 06:32:42 PM
I'm on Tapa, it's always there, watching me, taunting me.....Just try to practice better focusing. Focus on the content, ignore the title. You could maybe leverage that and implement that during davening...
Post by: mmgfarb on November 13, 2016, 06:33:28 PM
Just try to practice better focusing. Focus on the content, ignore the title. You could maybe leverage that and implement that during davening...If only the content were something worth focusing on. Good point about davening though.
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2016, 06:40:33 PM
Can someone please fix the spelling error in the title? It's really bothering me.Done. Sorry 'bout that.
Post by: mmgfarb on November 13, 2016, 06:40:51 PM
Done. Sorry 'bout that.Thanks
Post by: BarryLincoln on November 13, 2016, 06:48:40 PM
Post by: shulem92 on November 13, 2016, 07:36:52 PM
ThanksIts still messed up by me
Post by: shimino1 on November 13, 2016, 08:41:47 PM
Post by: ar on November 13, 2016, 09:15:51 PM
Hey Dan.
I'm shocked that you are so clueless about what's going on regarding these leased planes and El Al's pilots.
In short, EL AL has a long dispute with its pilot union and it has been getting nasty over the last few years. Pilots are doing crazy things in order to gain leverage. For instant pilots often cancel the last minute leaving Elal stuck with paying more for their (co worker) friends in order to fly their planes resulting in all pilots secretly collaborating to make more money etc etc - real crazy Jewish shtick and fighting back and forth.
So El Al tried to fight back with these leased planes that are not officially operated by LY and therefore they can use other pilots which are not in union..
Bottom line, please do your research and you'll see that it's not so simple as you described it in the DD post.
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2016, 09:24:06 PM
Post by: ar on November 13, 2016, 09:32:04 PM
I didn't say it was simple. I said both sides blame each other which means it's just another day at (the $%& show that is) El Al.You wrote:
For the past couple of years El Al has been wet-leasing planes from other airlines to cover their routes.
Not true. They leased these planes because of the pilot issue - not to cover existing routes.
Dozens of readers have sent me horror stories about these airlines and I’ve made several posts about the situation.
Privilege Style is a 777-200 - we can argue about if it's better than Elal's 747
Hi Fly is 2 brand new A330 which is comparable to a LH/LX/TK plane - MUCH better than Elal 747
The pilots blame El Al for charging passengers a premium while shifting them onto low cost carriers that cost El Al far less than flying their own aircraft and employees.
Pilots are upset... but nothing to do with LY charging a premium to customers to have them fly low cost airlines. They couldn't care less about that
Post by: YOSEF on November 13, 2016, 09:35:27 PM
You wrote:Who said more routes?
For the past couple of years El Al has been wet-leasing planes from other airlines to cover their routes.
Not true. They leased these planes because of the pilot issue - not to cover more routes.
They leased them to cover the ones they had, which weren't being covered for some reason (read: pilot strike).
Dozens of readers have sent me horror stories about these airlines and I’ve made several posts about the situation.So people sending him emails etc don't exist???
Privilege Style is a 777-200 - we can argue about if it's better than Elal's 747
Hi Fly is 2 brand new A330 which is comparable to a LH/LX/TK plane - MUCH better than Elal 747
The pilots blame El Al for charging passengers a premium while shifting them onto low cost carriers that cost El Al far less than flying their own aircraft and employees.You missed the point of that one. Its just finger pointing.
Pilots are upset... but nothing to do with LY charging a premium to customers to have them fly low cost airlines. They couldn't care less about that
Post by: ar on November 13, 2016, 09:36:43 PM
Who said more routes?
They leased them to cover the ones they had.
Thanks. I corrected my mistake
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2016, 09:40:23 PM
For the past couple of years El Al has been wet-leasing planes from other airlines to cover their routes.Who said "more routes."
Not true. They leased these planes because of the pilot issue - not to cover more routes.
I said to cover their routes. Other airlines covered their routes for the past 2 years, this is a statement of fact.
Dozens of readers have sent me horror stories about these airlines and I’ve made several posts about the situation.I haven't been on El Al, Privilege Style, Hi Fly, or Euro Atlantic. I passed along that I have received dozens of emails from people who have been unpleasantly surprised at the seat, at the crew, at the IFE, etc. This is a statement of fact.
Privilege Style is a 777-200 - we can argue about if it's better than Elal's 747
Hi Fly is 2 brand new A330 which is comparable to a LH/LX/TK plane - MUCH better than Elal 747
The pilots blame El Al for charging passengers a premium while shifting them onto low cost carriers that cost El Al far less than flying their own aircraft and employees.It's a quote from the pilot's union, not mine,
Pilots are upset... but nothing to do with LY charging a premium to customers to have them fly low cost airlines. They couldn't care less about that
"This is a methodical plan by El Al's management arising solely from business considerations. It is being carried out at the expense of the passengers who pay full fares and expect to fly on an Israeli airline operated by Israeli flight attendants, technicians and pilots. The Histadrut understood that the national carrier had become a brokerage company without passengers being informed and at the expense of all its workers. The blame laid on the pilots is false and baseless, as has become clear many times. In the past few days it has been demonstrated that the attempt to put the responsibility on the pilots is baseless, and the workers and the Histadrut have realized that in order to put an end to the damage being caused to the airline it is necessary to request the declaration of a labor dispute."
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2016, 09:40:57 PM
Who said more routes?Lol, beat me.
They leased them to cover the ones they had, which weren't being covered for some reason (read: pilot strike).So people sending him emails etc don't exist???You missed the point of that one. Its just finger pointing.
Post by: ar on November 13, 2016, 09:52:33 PM
Good grief.
I meant existing routes - while these wet leased planes were used the 747's were sitting idly in El Al's hanger in TLV.
Bottom line, if you look into this matter you'll see that it's very different from how you described it. The pilots union are killing El Al and each side is trying to outsmart the other leaving the passengers stranded because of their disagreements. This has been going on for years and it's coming to a nasty end.
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2016, 09:55:15 PM
I meant existing routes - while these wet leased planes were used the 747's were sitting idly in El Al's hanger in TLV.Other airlines covered their routes for the past 2 years, this is a statement of fact, not conjecture. I'm not assigning blame, the airline and union are famously dysfunctional and are why many avoid them.
Bottom line, if you look into this matter you'll see that it's very different from how you described it. The pilots union are killing El Al and each side is trying to outsmart the other leaving the passengers stranded because of their disagreements. This has been going on for years and it's coming to a nasty end.
Post by: ar on November 13, 2016, 10:06:31 PM
Other airlines covered their routes for the past 2 years, this is a statement of fact, not conjecture. I'm not assigning blame, the airline and union are famously dysfunctional and are why many avoid them.
Agreed. I guess I just know this story with the pilots union and I strongly believe that they are at fault here and El Al had no choice but to act like this.
With that said, EL AL is not the most normal functioning airline but in this case I feel bad for them, they really have no way out of this sick pilots union but to do all this cray stuff or they'll go bankrupt.
Post by: 159dallas on November 13, 2016, 10:08:40 PM
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2016, 10:11:28 PM
Ok so my take on this is simple it doesn't really matter whose fault it is beacuse everything ends up being pushed onto the passengers normal functioning airlines solve there own problems internally and make sure it doesn't interfere with normal operations.That's mine as well :)
#sorrynotsorry about your union issues.
Post by: 159dallas on November 13, 2016, 10:14:33 PM
would it mean the cancellation of all flights?
Post by: yandmk on November 14, 2016, 05:36:29 AM
Privilege Style is a 777-200 - we can argue about if it's better than Elal's 747Well passengers who actually flew with them have a very different story than what you "assume". One of my clients who is a gold member with El Al and flies their business class very often, sent me this message after being placed on a flight from Hi Fly in September:
Hi Fly is 2 brand new A330 which is comparable to a LH/LX/TK plane - MUCH better than Elal 747
"I have a question. There's something wrong with my internet so I couldn't reach Elal but we were really upset at the return flight that we had. The seats were small and didn't lie down, the food was cold and awful and not the hechsher that we usually get so we didn't get food. Is it possible to complain and say that we want a part refund?"
Me: "Because of the swap to Hi Fly?"
"Yes. It was awful and I didn't sleep a wink which is why I specially spend all the money to go business"
A few weeks later El Al answered her complaint saying that wetleasing is "common practice" in the airline industry and offered 200 miles compensation (wow!) as a token of understanding:
Dear Mrs. --------,
Thank you for contacting El Al's customer relations.
As a result of operational issues and in an attempt to address the continuous demands of our clientele, some of our flights from and to New York will be operated by the Portuguese carrier, Hi Fly.
Under the general terms of carriage, aircraft leasing is a common practice in the airline industry and is designed to ensure that we fulfill our obligations to the passengers and bring them to their final destination.
We are sorry for your disappointment and the inconvenience caused, as it is not our intention to cause discomfort of any kind to our passengers. We do appreciate and thank you for your continued devotion to El Al. However, it is important to acknowledge that the company that was selected to carry out the service is an airline which holds all licenses and permits that are required to carry the necessary operations. In addition, the airline has received approval from the Israeli authorities. Your feedback concerning the matter was forwarded to management for review.
As a token of our understanding I have credited your frequent flyer account GL -------- & Mr. -----'s frequent flyer account ------------- with 200 points, each, which may be used towards future bonus tickets, upgrades etc. This may take up to 7 business days. The points are valid for three years.
Let me take this opportunity to thank you for your continued patronage and we hope for your understanding.
Yours sincerely,
-------------- - Customer Relations
Fax: 972-3-7602233
Email: customer@elal.co.il
EL-AL ISRAEL AIRLINES LTD
She then wrote to me regarding booking her next flight:
"I understand that they can lease other planes but it needs to be at the same value as what we paid for. I'm considering my next flights and not sure I want to take a chance with Elal. I don't need 200 points when I paid full price in cash for business seats and received a less than inferior situation"
So what was that about Hi Fly being "MUCH better than El Al 747"?
Post by: Sig on November 14, 2016, 08:41:49 AM
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/98247A well run company with competent leadership doesn't end up in this situation. Pilots don't behave childishly like this if they're working for good leaders. You don't see this behavior, on the part of pilots or an airline wet leasing to get around them instead of just negotiating a good contract very often, the pilots simply strike until they reach an acceptable agreement with management and both sides move on to run their company. Austrian about 10 years ago is the last time I recall seeing the wet lease strategy used to undercut pilots. I've never flown El Al and don't have a dog in this hunt, but I do know a good bit about leadership and pilots and your description of the issue just reinforces that this is a failure of El Al management at the highest levels, the pilot's behavior is simply a symptom of a much bigger problem of poor leadership.
Hey Dan.
I'm shocked that you are so clueless about what's going on regarding these leased planes and El Al's pilots.
In short, EL AL has a long dispute with its pilot union and it has been getting nasty over the last few years. Pilots are doing crazy things in order to gain leverage. For instant pilots often cancel the last minute leaving Elal stuck with paying more for their (co worker) friends in order to fly their planes resulting in all pilots secretly collaborating to make more money etc etc - real crazy Jewish shtick and fighting back and forth.
So El Al tried to fight back with these leased planes that are not officially operated by LY and therefore they can use other pilots which are not in union..
Bottom line, please do your research and you'll see that it's not so simple as you described it in the DD post.
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2016, 09:16:55 AM
Post by: Sammy82 on November 14, 2016, 09:57:59 AM
It boils down to a company culture that doesn't appreciate their customers as their greatest asset.+1
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2016, 11:12:25 AM
Strikes are threatened not only at ELAL, but for some reason (that many here are aware of) it doesn't seem to reflect as badly on the company as in ELAL's case. As I've pointed out above, it's a culture/attitude problem at ELAL.
Post by: travel agent on November 14, 2016, 11:15:54 AM
Post by: AsherO on November 14, 2016, 11:17:34 AM
Post by: Sammy82 on November 14, 2016, 11:20:02 AM
tonight the flight to PEK is cancelledbecause of wet leasing or or strike?
Post by: David Smith on November 14, 2016, 11:20:22 AM
The irony of this situation is that other airlines are making a killing on North America-TLV routes.So they say. They said the same about AA.
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2016, 11:28:04 AM
So they say. They said the same about AA.No, so the CEOs say explicitly.
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2016, 11:28:16 AM
You wrote:http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/98247#comment-1290583
For the past couple of years El Al has been wet-leasing planes from other airlines to cover their routes.
Not true. They leased these planes because of the pilot issue - not to cover existing routes.
Dozens of readers have sent me horror stories about these airlines and I’ve made several posts about the situation.
Privilege Style is a 777-200 - we can argue about if it's better than Elal's 747
Hi Fly is 2 brand new A330 which is comparable to a LH/LX/TK plane - MUCH better than Elal 747
The pilots blame El Al for charging passengers a premium while shifting them onto low cost carriers that cost El Al far less than flying their own aircraft and employees.
Pilots are upset... but nothing to do with LY charging a premium to customers to have them fly low cost airlines. They couldn't care less about that
Post by: travel agent on November 14, 2016, 11:31:30 AM
because of wet leasing or or strike?
בשל עיצומי הטייסים והתעקשותם לטוס רק בכיוון אחד, בוטלה הערב טיסה 095 לבייג'ין וטיסת החזור 096. החברה תשיב לנוסעים את כספם.
עיצומי הטייסים פוגעים זה חודשים ארוכים בפעילות החברה. העיצומים מתבטאים בחוסר ההענות של הטייסים לאייש טיסות ולטוס כטייסים פעילים הלוך וחזור ודרישה לטיסה רק בכיוון אחד.
צר לנו על הפגיעה בנוסעים אך אין בידינו כל ברירה אלא להחזיר את הסדר על כנו ואת החברה לפעילות סדירה.
Post by: ar on November 14, 2016, 11:38:25 AM
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/98247#comment-1290583
Pretty bad indeed. I guess there are mixed reviews about these planes and service. Bottom line - EL AL better shape up
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/98247#comment-1290565
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2016, 11:45:29 AM
tonight the flight to PEK is cancelledThe one flight they will not play games with (CMIIW) is 001. That's their flagship route, if they mess with that they will start bleeding big time IMHO.
Post by: travel agent on November 14, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
החברה תשיב לנוסעים את כספם.
what kind of service? they are not rebooking on other airlines?
Post by: Cashman on November 14, 2016, 12:05:55 PM
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
This is nuts. I have business class seats reserved for January and February. I hope they dont change the planes on me. The only way to get them to stop acting like a third world airline is to get the chareidi press which caters to a large part of the consumer base to start writing about these practicesI haven't heard them (please someone correct me if I am wrong) do this on the TLV-JFK-TLV route (and possibly not on any of the 747 routes - EWR-TLV alternates between 747 and 777. Are the any DP about that route being substituted when a 747 was scheduled?) You see this mostly on their secondary long-haul (and possibly short haul) routes that operate a 767 or 777.
Post by: Sammy82 on November 14, 2016, 12:20:06 PM
I haven't heard them (please someone correct me if I am wrong) do this on the TLV-JFK-TLV route (and possibly not on any of the 747 routes - EWR-TLV alternates between 747 and 777. Are the any DP about that route being substituted when a 747 was scheduled?) You see this mostly on their secondary long-haul (and possibly short haul) routes that operate a 767 or 777.didn't they just cancel last night's EWR-tlv flight?
Post by: AsherO on November 14, 2016, 12:24:24 PM
This is nuts. I have business class seats reserved for January and February. I hope they dont change the planes on me. The only way to get them to stop acting like a third world airline is to get the chareidi press which caters to a large part of the consumer base to start writing about these practices
I can't believe they care about Chareidim, they treat them like cr@p. Then again, it's mutual, the Chareidim treat LY like cr@p as well.
Post by: yandmk on November 14, 2016, 12:30:05 PM
I haven't heard them (please someone correct me if I am wrong) do this on the TLV-JFK-TLV route (and possibly not on any of the 747 routes - EWR-TLV alternates between 747 and 777. Are the any DP about that route being substituted when a 747 was scheduled?) You see this mostly on their secondary long-haul (and possibly short haul) routes that operate a 767 or 777.Last night's cancelled flight was supposed to be operated by a 747
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2016, 12:56:04 PM
Last night's cancelled flight was supposed to be operated by a 747So I guess they do cancel 747s, but after all EWR-TLV is secondary to JFK-TLV. Has any of this been happening on that route, and especially their flagship 001 flight?
Post by: yandmk on November 14, 2016, 12:57:04 PM
So I guess they do cancel 747s, but after all EWR-TLV is secondary to JFK-TLV. Has any of this been happening on that route, and especially their flagship 001 flight?Yes
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2016, 12:58:35 PM
YesIf this happens on their 001, I think they will be bleeding passengers and they know it. Their arrogant culture is coming back to roost.
Post by: travel agent on November 14, 2016, 04:37:22 PM
& flight 7 to JFK is delayed 3 hours.
Post by: AsherO on November 14, 2016, 04:47:17 PM
Post by: David Smith on November 14, 2016, 04:48:19 PM
Does israels compensation law cover strikes? This will cost them millions!It doesn't cover strikes.
Post by: mordechain on November 14, 2016, 06:53:49 PM
Post by: eliraps on November 14, 2016, 11:21:59 PM
Post by: Cashman on November 14, 2016, 11:48:51 PM
I can't believe they care about Chareidim, they treat them like cr@p. Then again, it's mutual, the Chareidim treat LY like cr@p as well.Asher they care about their bottom line. I fly this route around 6 times a year and roughly 50% of passengers are chareideim. I can't imagine a article in the Chareidi weeklys won't awaken them
Post by: avadah on November 15, 2016, 01:53:48 AM
Asher they care about their bottom line. I fly this route around 6 times a year and roughly 50% of passengers are chareideim. I can't imagine a article in the Chareidi weeklys won't awaken them+1 they do a nice amount of advertising by the chareidim, they know it's a great market for them.
Post by: David Smith on November 15, 2016, 05:36:51 AM
Then again, it's mutual, the Chareidim treat LY like cr@p as well.In what manner? (And please don't say that they make minyanim and attempt not to sit next to those of the opposite gender when they feel it's inappropriate.)
Post by: Emkay on November 15, 2016, 05:41:24 AM
In what manner? (And please don't say that they make minyanim and attempt not to sit next to those of the opposite gender when they feel it's inappropriate.)Seriously?!
Post by: travel agent on November 15, 2016, 11:18:49 AM
LHR is cancelled
BKK is delayed again from 23:00 to 5:00
EWR is delayed from 00:30 to 15:00 (!!!)
JFK (001!!) is delayed from 00:45 to 5:10
Post by: ExGingi on November 15, 2016, 11:40:55 AM
updates for today:WOW.
LHR is cancelled
BKK is delayed again from 23:00 to 5:00
EWR is delayed from 00:30 to 15:00 (!!!)
JFK (001!!) is delayed from 00:45 to 5:10
Is there a mass exodus from LY by customers?
As for the comments above about "chareidim" I think there are 2 main reasons why they fly ELAL:
1. The halacha of או קנה מיד עמיתך,
2. Hakoras Hatov for the fact that (as a public facade) LY doesn't fly on Shabbos (everyone knows that they fly subsidiaries on Shabbos, possibly Cargo, as well as other חילולי שבת) however at least publicly, there are no LY flights scheduled for Shabbos and 1st day YomTov.
Post by: Sammy82 on November 15, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
updates for today:Oh no.
LHR is cancelled
BKK is delayed again from 23:00 to 5:00
EWR is delayed from 00:30 to 15:00 (!!!)
JFK (001!!) is delayed from 00:45 to 5:10
Any word on if they're putting people on other flights, compensating them, etc?
Post by: Hjay on November 15, 2016, 12:21:11 PM
updates for today:You can add EWR 1:15 delayed to 20:00 (not exact times) & on privilege. My friend is not happy.
LHR is cancelled
BKK is delayed again from 23:00 to 5:00
EWR is delayed from 00:30 to 15:00 (!!!)
JFK (001!!) is delayed from 00:45 to 5:10
Post by: travel agent on November 15, 2016, 12:34:29 PM
Post by: Sammy82 on November 15, 2016, 12:36:20 PM
Post by: ExGingi on November 15, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
http://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/427857
Post by: elit on November 15, 2016, 01:41:29 PM
updates for today:
JFK (001!!) is delayed from 00:45 to 5:10
Where are you seeing this?
Post by: travel agent on November 15, 2016, 01:46:55 PM
Post by: travel agent on November 15, 2016, 03:45:23 PM
Post by: Sammy82 on November 15, 2016, 03:58:33 PM
tomorrow VIE is cancelledwhen they cancel, do they place the customers on other flights?
Post by: travel agent on November 15, 2016, 04:07:44 PM
Post by: Sammy82 on November 15, 2016, 04:19:54 PM
they only offer refundsNo sort of compensation?
Post by: Cashman on November 15, 2016, 05:14:06 PM
No sort of compensation?Friend of mine said he got free tickets for future travel
Post by: ExGingi on November 16, 2016, 06:39:15 AM
Here's an article by an agent who admits to being very close to ELAL who just announced that he's suspending sales of ELAL tickets.
http://col.org.il/חדשות_חבד_EL_AL_WE_HAVE_A_PROBLEM_•_מילה_של_קמיסר_100848.html (http://www.col.org.il/show_news.rtx?fromAdmin=yes&artID=100848)
I am guessing that this will now get worked out, and ELAL will slash prices in order to regain customers, which will result in other airlines matching.
Post by: travel agent on November 16, 2016, 10:42:39 AM
PEK is delayed from 21:30 to 10:00
Post by: Sammy82 on November 16, 2016, 11:49:24 AM
Post by: AsherO on November 16, 2016, 01:19:29 PM
As I said, messing with the flagship flight 001 is major.
Here's an article by an agent who admits to being very close to ELAL who just announced that he's suspending sales of ELAL tickets.
http://col.org.il/חדשות_חבד_EL_AL_WE_HAVE_A_PROBLEM_•_מילה_של_קמיסר_100848.html (http://www.col.org.il/show_news.rtx?fromAdmin=yes&artID=100848)
I am guessing that this will now get worked out, and ELAL will slash prices in order to regain customers, which will result in other airlines matching.
ETA: FTFY
Post by: Cashman on November 16, 2016, 02:55:17 PM
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-dispute-with-pilots-escalates-1001161464
What about compensation?
The frustrated passengers can take comfort in the Aviation Services Law (Compensation and Assistance for Flight Cancellations and Changes in Conditions) - 2012, which sets compensation for cancellation of a flight under certain conditions (for example, in case of an organized strike, the airline is not legally obligated to compensate passengers).
Advocates Vered Cohen and Raanan Bar-On explain that unavailability of pilots is not classed as a reason exempting the airline from providing monetary compensation. The law stipulates compensation in the NIS 1,290-3,080 range, in addition to giving back the money the passengers paid for their tickets. Compensation is determined by the flight distance.
At the same time, Cohen and Bar-On made it clear that the airline is exempt from providing this compensation in cases in which the passengers reach compensation agreements with the airline, for example, if a passenger agrees to accept a free ticket (in addition to reimbursement for the original ticket). The same is true in a case in which the passenger was notified of the expected cancellation, and was offered an alternative flight close to the original flight (from one hour in advance of the takeoff time to two hours after the original landing time).
Post by: ad120 on November 17, 2016, 03:18:07 AM
ELAL is headed towards death....a reason to celebrate.
Post by: Emkay on November 17, 2016, 03:29:24 AM
a reason to celebrate.Can you give me one valid reason why that would be a good thing?
Post by: shimino1 on November 17, 2016, 06:28:14 AM
Can you give me one valid reason why that would be a good thing?It would not be good at all!!!
What may be good is if they have a huge shakeup, fire a lot of excess staff, get rid of all their ancient 747's, 767's, 737's that I remember flying on almost 20 years ago, Build a new business class into their upcoming 787's, start hiring flight attendants that aren't in their early 20's and treat the job like it's a job and lower their overhead and cost structure so that they can compete (somewhat) on price.
Post by: ExGingi on November 17, 2016, 07:32:27 AM
It would not be good at all!!!When you compete on price, you lose!
What may be good is if they have a huge shakeup, fire a lot of excess staff, get rid of all their ancient 747's, 767's, 737's that I remember flying on almost 20 years ago, Build a new business class into their upcoming 787's, start hiring flight attendants that aren't in their early 20's and treat the job like it's a job and lower their overhead and cost structure so that they can compete (somewhat) on price.
They need to compete on customer experience. They require a DNA switch in order to do that. And if that happens, who knows? Maybe even I would consider flying ELAL.
Post by: shimino1 on November 17, 2016, 08:02:12 AM
Post by: yandmk on November 17, 2016, 08:08:47 AM
Competing on price does not mean low cost. It means not consistently having higher prices on average then other airlines.They don't (comparing to the other nonstops).
Post by: moe8555 on November 17, 2016, 08:15:59 AM
Competing on price does not mean low cost. It means not consistently having higher prices on average then other airlines.
Everyone likes to bash El Al, but they really have gotten better on price. I've seen plenty of fares that are equal to or less than other competing non-stop flights. Business to Europe isn't the cheapest, but the product is vastly superior (King David lounge at TLV and a truly different cabin with upgraded hardware vs. Dan Lounge and economy-style seats with an empty middle seat on most European airlines).
Post by: ExGingi on November 17, 2016, 09:05:55 AM
Competing on price does not mean low cost. It means not consistently having higher prices on average then other airlines.On NYC-TLV route they are often cheaper than UA or DL, but $100 or $200 saving doesn't warrant subjecting myself to the ELAL experience (and very limited use loyalty program).
Post by: travel agent on November 17, 2016, 11:05:06 AM
will it arrive before shabos?
Post by: ExGingi on November 17, 2016, 11:51:13 AM
flight 001 tonight is delayed to 9:30 !!!It should.
will it arrive before shabos?
9:30am TLV time is 2:30am NY time. It's about 11 hour flight.
However, I can see many people avoiding that. Looks like the pilot union is hell bent on breaking the company. You will have many frum people avoiding ELAL for things like this. That is an important loyal customer base.
Post by: shimino1 on November 17, 2016, 01:06:59 PM
They don't (comparing to the other nonstops).Can't argue about economy (although I would take delta, United or Air Canada every day) but IME over the last three years, I have only found them to be cheaper in business class one time and that is besides for the fact that their business product SUCKS!!!
Post by: yandmk on November 17, 2016, 01:17:27 PM
Can't argue about economy (although I would take delta, United or Air Canada every day) but IME over the last three years, I have only found them to be cheaper in business class one time and that is besides for the fact that their business product SUCKS!!!One time out of...?
Post by: David Smith on November 17, 2016, 01:38:19 PM
Can't argue about economy (although I would take delta, United or Air Canada every day) but IME over the last three years, I have only found them to be cheaper in business class one time and that is besides for the fact that their business product SUCKS!!!Let's do this a mite more scientifically, and actually check.
Screenshots attached are Google flights results for NYC-TLV RT nonstop on December 2016, with a one week stay.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/03b6bc5429cc24d617db901cf499fc6f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/09cf8b76327894f14b564e6762e4e7b6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/363182c5b59ac6cf9997e7e09e2785fe.jpg)
Post by: shimino1 on November 17, 2016, 01:39:30 PM
Post by: shimino1 on November 17, 2016, 01:40:55 PM
Let's do this a mite more scientifically, and actually check.Not sure why you care so much but just randomly select travel dates and I'll check to see...
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/03b6bc5429cc24d617db901cf499fc6f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/09cf8b76327894f14b564e6762e4e7b6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/363182c5b59ac6cf9997e7e09e2785fe.jpg)
Post by: travel agent on November 17, 2016, 01:54:52 PM
It should.
9:30am TLV time is 2:30am NY time. It's about 11 hour flight.
flight time is 12:15, so if its further delayed it will arrive shabos
Post by: travel agent on November 17, 2016, 01:57:23 PM
Post by: ExGingi on November 17, 2016, 01:58:41 PM
flight time is 12:15, so if its further delayed it will arrive shabosThat was part of ELAL management claim against the pilots. They say that actual flight time is less than 12 hours, but the pilots artificially inflate it past 12 hours so that they get 2 free business class seats to go along with them.
Times showing on flight schedules are usually gate to gate.
However, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't advise any Yid to take this flight!
As you can see below, with one exception they are all sub 12 hours.
(http://i.imgur.com/YK4v1CX.png)
Post by: travel agent on November 17, 2016, 04:22:54 PM
טייסי חברת אל על ממשיכים שלא להתייצב לטיסות, וטיסה שתוכננה להלילה לניו יורק נדחתה למחר. שומרי תורה ומצוות שפנו לרב החברה הרב חיות, הונחו שלא לעלות על הטיסה. המשבר באל-על הולך ומחריף והפגיעה בנוסעים גדלה.
חברת אל על הודיעה כי הטיסה לניו יורק שתוכננה להלילה נדחתה למחר בבוקר. פניות של שומרי תורה ומצוות לרב החברה בשל חשש מאיחור לקראת השבת, הביאו לתשובה: "אל תעלו על הטיסה מחר".
עיצומי הטייסים של חברת אל על, הביאו כבר יותר מפעם אחת לנחיתה בצמוד לזמן הדלקת נרות, ויש מי מהנוסעים שלא מוכנים לקחת עוד סיכון, קח למשל נוסעים שאמורים היו להמריא הלילה לניו יורק, ונודע להם כי טיסתם נדחתה למחר בבוקר.
המדובר בטיסה 001 לניו יורק, שאמורה הייתה להמריא בשעה 00:50 הלילה (שעון ישראל) ונחיתתה הייתה צפוייה בשעה 6:00 בבוקר (שעון ניו יורק), אלא שבשל עיצומי הטייסים הוחלט כי הטיסה תצא רק מחר בבוקר, מה שאומר שהיא תנחת בצהרים (שעון ניו יורק).
בדוברות אל על נאמר לאתר לדעת כי הטיסה תנחת בני יורק דקות לאחר השעה 1 בצהריים. ואעפ"כ כל שומר מצוות שמדבר עם הרב חיות מקבל עצה לדחות טיסתו.
הרב חיות עצמו הגיב ואמר כי בכוונתו להיות הלילה בשדה התעופה ולדאוג לנוסעים. לדבריו פנה אליו רב מפתח תקווה, והוא אמר לו שלא לעלות על הטיסה.
באל על אמרו הערב כי כשפנו לטייסים הערב הם קיבלו תשובות שונות בהם על מחלה שפיתח אחד הטייסים, טייס אחר לא ענה, טייס נוסף סירב ואמר כי יטוס רק אם חייב, עוד ארבעה טייסים סירבו, אחד מהם היה מוכן לטוס רק לכיוון אחד, וטייס נוסף השיב כי הוא במנוחה במלאה בשל מגבלת שעות. "אנו שבים ומודיעים כי נציגות טייסי החברה ממשיכה לפגוע בחברה, מתנצלים בפני הנוסעים על הפגיעה ונחושים להחזיר את הפעילות בחברה לסדרה", אמרו באל על.
וועד טייסי אל על הגיבו ואמרו כי ״חבל שהנהלת אל על ו"חבורת קלאבמרקט", בהוראת בעלת השליטה תמי מוזס-בורוביץ, שוב ממשיכים להטעות את הציבור. גם הפעם, בדיוק כמו ביתר הטיסות שהנהלת אל על החליטה לבטל השבוע, היו טייסים זמינים להוציא את הטיסות. הפעם עברה ההנהלה כל גבול בשקריה משום שהיו גם שני חברי הנהלה, טייסים בצי 744, שהיו כשירים וזמינים ויכלו גם הם להפעיל את הטיסה. העובדה שהנהלת החברה בחרה לא להציבם לטיסה, מעלה חשד לחבלה בזדון וממשיכה לפגוע פגיעה אנושה בנוסעים ובחברה״.
Post by: Sammy82 on November 17, 2016, 09:02:11 PM
I'm to tired to write more but in short, it was my best elal flight (but like i told my brother, give the crew another few flights with our meshugasim and they'll be just as bad as elal).
Maybe I'll write more later.
Post by: ExGingi on November 18, 2016, 12:15:10 PM
Being that this is a 747, deplaning usually takes a little longer (though that might have been mitigated if many people just didn't take it).
IMHO this is another escalation of the fight. 001 is a flagship flight. The Thursday, Motzoei Shabbos and Sunday flights are the most important ones, as those are people who need to get to their destination for the weekend, or arrive at the beginning of a week. Also, this creates a huge problem for a significant customer base, who choose ELAL due to the fact that they present themselves as Shomer Shabbos, and this clearly shows no respect for Shmiras Shabbos.
(http://i.imgur.com/V4i0DYl.png)
Post by: eliesquire on November 18, 2016, 12:20:48 PM
I just took LY1028 EWR-TLV. Plane and most of crew were Privilege and they were supplemented by elal. But aside from the crew, it was very hard to tell it wasn't Elal. Pillows, headrests, soap in bathroom, good trays, movies, etc all said elal. My guess is that the first few days it was a rush to get Privilege to cover but now that it might be long term, they had time to plan accordingly.Sammy,
I'm to tired to write more but in short, it was my best elal flight (but like i told my brother, give the crew another few flights with our meshugasim and they'll be just as bad as elal).
Maybe I'll write more later.
I'm planning on taking LY028 on the 22nd, and I wonder whether you have any thoughts about delays to that flight. Did it seem to you that ElAl was getting its act togther with the wet lease so that, by the 22nd, the contingency plan would be in place? Also, how long was your delay and what, if anything, did ElAl do for you or other passengers in terms of comps/accomodations?
Thanks in advance.
Post by: ExGingi on November 18, 2016, 12:48:18 PM
Sammy,I will offer you my unsolicited advice: prepare for the worst, hope for the best!
I'm planning on taking LY028 on the 22nd, and I wonder whether you have any thoughts about delays to that flight. Did it seem to you that ElAl was getting its act togther with the wet lease so that, by the 22nd, the contingency plan would be in place? Also, how long was your delay and what, if anything, did ElAl do for you or other passengers in terms of comps/accomodations?
Thanks in advance.
It is obvious that ELAL as a company has a flawed DNA when it comes to realizing what the customers mean to them. The senior pilots (and to an extent management) is stuck in the old arrogant Israeli mentality. They don't realize that their customers are their number 1 asset, rather than someone who should thank them for their kindness in providing service. Even Israelis realize this now: http://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=1001161638
Post by: chff on November 18, 2016, 01:08:47 PM
Everyone likes to bash El Al, but they really have gotten better on price. I've seen plenty of fares that are equal to or less than other competing non-stop flights. Business to Europe isn't the cheapest, but the product is vastly superior (King David lounge at TLV and a truly different cabin with upgraded hardware vs. Dan Lounge and economy-style seats with an empty middle seat on most European airlines).
On NYC-TLV route they are often cheaper than UA or DL, but $100 or $200 saving doesn't warrant subjecting myself to the ELAL experience (and very limited use loyalty program).Without Elal UA/DL business class would have been $6k+ and economy would have had advance purchase like crazy. Check it out, the difference between a NY-TLV fare vs NY-BRU
Let's do this a mite more scientifically, and actually check.ITA/GF shows lots of phantom space on Elal
Screenshots attached are Google flights results for NYC-TLV RT nonstop on December 2016, with a one week stay.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/03b6bc5429cc24d617db901cf499fc6f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/09cf8b76327894f14b564e6762e4e7b6.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/363182c5b59ac6cf9997e7e09e2785fe.jpg)
Post by: ExGingi on November 18, 2016, 01:16:54 PM
Without Elal UA/DL business class would have been $6k+ and economy would have had advance purchase like crazy. Check it out, the difference between a NY-TLV fare vs NY-BRUITA/GF shows lots of phantom space on Elal+1
ELAL obviously has the largest inventory availability on TLV-NYC-TLV route.
I am not hoping for ELAL to die (though that might be a form of creative destruction), but rather for a major shakeup and attitude change.
Post by: travel agent on November 19, 2016, 03:38:44 PM
PEK is delayed from 21:30 to 8:00
BKK is cancelled
EWR is cancelled
AMS is delayed from 6:15 to 8:15
MXP is delayed from 6:50 to 15:30
Post by: ExGingi on November 19, 2016, 11:15:09 PM
Post by: eliraps on November 19, 2016, 11:38:44 PM
From Globes today :So are people actually being compensated?
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-dispute-with-pilots-escalates-1001161464
What about compensation?
The frustrated passengers can take comfort in the Aviation Services Law (Compensation and Assistance for Flight Cancellations and Changes in Conditions) - 2012, which sets compensation for cancellation of a flight under certain conditions (for example, in case of an organized strike, the airline is not legally obligated to compensate passengers).
Advocates Vered Cohen and Raanan Bar-On explain that unavailability of pilots is not classed as a reason exempting the airline from providing monetary compensation. The law stipulates compensation in the NIS 1,290-3,080 range, in addition to giving back the money the passengers paid for their tickets. Compensation is determined by the flight distance.
At the same time, Cohen and Bar-On made it clear that the airline is exempt from providing this compensation in cases in which the passengers reach compensation agreements with the airline, for example, if a passenger agrees to accept a free ticket (in addition to reimbursement for the original ticket). The same is true in a case in which the passenger was notified of the expected cancellation, and was offered an alternative flight close to the original flight (from one hour in advance of the takeoff time to two hours after the original landing time).
What are elal doing? Sitting on getting new pilots? Working on coming to agreement?
Post by: eliraps on November 20, 2016, 06:11:36 AM
לאור ביטולי הטיסות הרבים בשל סכסוך בין ועד הטייסים לחברת אל על, החברה הודיעה על הקלות במדיניות השינויים והביטולים. מעתה ניתן יהיה לבטל טיסות היוצאות עד ל-30 בנובמבר 2016, ולקבל החזר כספי מלא וללא עלות דמי ביטול. כמו כן ניתן יהיה לשנות את מועד הטיסה ללא דמי שינוי. צויין כי את השינויים יש לבצע מול הגורם שמולו בוצעה ההזמנה.
(איתי בלומנטל - Ynet)
Post by: waterpri on November 20, 2016, 08:44:53 AM
Count me out in terms of flying them ever again
Post by: Z56 on November 20, 2016, 08:50:47 AM
Tonights flight from JFK and Newark both cancelled. Impossible to speak to anyone at El Al.
Count me out in terms of flying them ever again
Make a poll.
Post by: travel agent on November 20, 2016, 09:08:55 AM
Post by: yandmk on November 20, 2016, 09:15:22 AM
WAW has now been cancelled.Not cancelled. Wetleased to "Travel Service"
Post by: yandmk on November 20, 2016, 09:20:29 AM
Post by: travel agent on November 20, 2016, 09:20:41 AM
Post by: travel agent on November 20, 2016, 10:18:23 AM
Post by: DC on November 20, 2016, 11:14:55 AM
Post by: David Smith on November 20, 2016, 11:18:15 AM
Tonight's flight from JFK cancelled. Anyone know if there's a chance they'll rebook me on another airline or offer anything else?You can fly Azerbaijan for $375 tomorrow morning.
Post by: eliesquire on November 20, 2016, 11:25:08 AM
You can fly Azerbaijan for $375 tomorrow morning.Can you provide details on the Azerbaijan flight? I can't find it. Thanks
Post by: nobiggy on November 20, 2016, 11:26:18 AM
Post by: tavster on November 20, 2016, 11:29:36 AM
Anyone know if tomorrow's flight from JFK at 11:50 PM is cancelled or not?
Yes cancelled, as per El Al's website
Post by: nobiggy on November 20, 2016, 11:33:49 AM
Yes cancelled, as per El Al's websiteI only see info for EWR. Please post a link for JFK.
Post by: tavster on November 20, 2016, 11:34:55 AM
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on November 20, 2016, 11:36:22 AM
Can you provide details on the Azerbaijan flight? I can't find it. Thankshttps://www.google.com/flights/#flt=/m/02_286.TLV.2016-11-21.JFKGYD0J2102~GYDTLV1J221;e:1;sd:1;tt:o;sp:..38430
Post by: David Smith on November 20, 2016, 11:38:06 AM
Can you provide details on the Azerbaijan flight? I can't find it. ThanksCheck Orbitz (http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/go/orbitz3/) or Priceline (http://www.dansdeals.com/go/PricelineFlights1/).
Post by: eliesquire on November 20, 2016, 11:38:43 AM
Check Orbitz (http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/go/orbitz3/).Thanks all.
Post by: tavster on November 20, 2016, 11:39:40 AM
I only see info for EWR. Please post a link for JFK.
Sorry I meant from JFK not to JFK. Sorry for the mistake
Post by: chff on November 20, 2016, 11:42:36 AM
Tonights flight from JFK and Newark both cancelled. Impossible to speak to anyone at El Al.Oh come on, like with Lufthansa that striked every 3 weeks you would fly?
Count me out in terms of flying them ever again
Post by: yakov116 on November 20, 2016, 11:43:19 AM
Oh come on, like with Lufthansa that striked every 3 weeks you would fly?Its not like product they were providing was great anyway
Post by: ExGingi on November 20, 2016, 11:53:48 AM
Oh come on, like with Lufthansa that striked every 3 weeks you would fly?Does ELAL protect on other airlines like US and European carriers do?
I haven't heard any stories of ELAL making any efforts to help customers actually get to their destination on time, just fly on the delayed flight (or another ELAL flight) or get a refund and take care of it yourself. CMIIW.
Post by: chff on November 20, 2016, 12:05:26 PM
Does ELAL protect on other airlines like US and European carriers do?I got some people rebooked on UA
I haven't heard any stories of ELAL making any efforts to help customers actually get to their destination on time, just fly on the delayed flight (or another ELAL flight) or get a refund and take care of it yourself. CMIIW.
Post by: travel agent on November 20, 2016, 04:40:38 PM
ל"בחדרי חרדים" נודע כי אדמו"ר מקופיטשניץ, זקן אדמו"י בית רוז'ין, הגיע הבוקר (ראשון) לנמל התעופה בן גוריון יחד עם חמישה מחסידיו לקראת המראתו הצפויה לביקור שתוכנן בניו יורק.
הטיסה שעליה היה אמור להיות האדמו"ר אמורה הייתה להמריא בשעה 9:40 שעון ישראל, אך זמן קצר קודם לכן, לאחר שכבר עברו את הבידוק הביטחוני וכורטסו, הודיעו בחברה כי הטיסה מבוטלת.
האדמו"ר שב כלעומת שבא למעונו בשכונת עזרת תורה בירושלים, זאת לאחר שהוברר שאין סיכוי לצאת עם טיסה חלופית בשעות הקרובות. מקורבי האדמו"ר דרשו מאל-על טיסה חלופית ולאחר מאמצים רבים נמצאה טיסה חלופית. ל"בחדרי חרדים" נודע כי האדמו"ר יצא הלילה (01:00) עם חברת התעופה 'בריסל איירליינס', דרך בריסל עם המתנה של חמש שעות במדינה.
אחד ממקורבי האדמו"ר סיפר ל'בחדרי חרדים': "אל-על הציעו לנו טיסה חלופית דרך מילאנו עם המתנה של 15 שעות, ולבסוף, לאחר תחנונים, הם סידרו לנו את הטיסה בחברת התעופה בריסל איירליינס".
בעקבות העיכובים, קבלת הפנים שתוכננה לאדמו"ר היום בשעה 19:30 בשכונת בורו פארק בברוקלין בוטלה והיא תתקיים מחר בערב.
במהלך ביקורו בארה"ב ישבות האדמו"ר בשבת הקרובה בבית מדרשו בלייקווד ובשבת הבאה בבית מדרשו בבולטימור. הרבי צפוי לשוב לארץ ביום שני, ה' כסלו.
Post by: travel agent on November 20, 2016, 04:41:49 PM
כפי שפורסם בחדשות ערוץ 2, כל הנזכרים מעלה הסבירו את עזיבתם מתפקידי הניהול לנוכח הקושי לנהל את הצי בתקופה האחרונה, בה מתנהל מאבק מתוקשר בין הטייסים להנהלת אל על, הכולל חילופי האשמות הדדיים בדבר ניסיונות לפגוע בפעילותה התקינה של החברה.
מקורו של הסכסוך בין הטייסים להנהלה בתנאי ההעסקה של הטייסים ודרישות השכר שלהם, לאחר שלטענתם הוא לא עודכן שנים. הטייסים מפעילים מזה תקופה ארוכה שורה של צעדים, בהם פיצולי טיסות (סירוב להטיס את מטוס החברה בחזרה ארצה מיד לאחר נחיתתם בנקודת היעד בחו"ל) ודיווחים על זמני טיסה ארוכים - כדי להגדיל את משכורתם.
מנכ"ל אל על, דוד מימון, החליט לפני כשבוע וחצי לנטוש את האסטרטגיה הסתגלנית שנקטה החברה עד כה אל מול הלחץ שהפעילו טייסי החברה, והודיעה על ביטולי טיסות של טייסים המוכנים לטוס רק בכיוון אחד.
בעלי התפקידים שהודיעו על התפטרותם נדרשו מחד לשקף את עמדות ההנהלה ולדרוש מחבריהם להתייצב לכל הטיסות, מבלי לפצל אותן, ומנגד - להזדהות עם דרישות עמיתיהם לגבי עדכון שכרם וגיבוש תנאיהם. "אני רוצה להאמין שאם התנאים ישתנו, חלקם יחזרו בהם מהודעתם", כתב אחד מטייסי החברה.
מוקדם יותר היום זומנו שישה טייסים לשימועים אצל מנכ"ל החברה, בחשד שנתנו דיווח כוזב על שעות טיסותיהם, כלומר, דיווחו שהמטוס יצא לדרך לפני שהוא התנתק בפועל מהשרוול, ובכך האריכו את זמני טיסתם ונהנו מתשלומים גבוהים מאלה שהיו זכאים להם.
מוועד טייסי אל על נמסר בתגובה להתפטרות הבכירים: "אנו מצרים על כך שמנכ"ל החברה, במקום לחזק את אמונו במנהליו הבכירים המתפטרים בהמוניהם בשבוע האחרון, בוחר להאשים באופן חסר שחר טייסים מסורים בוועדות משמעת ושימועים, ואחר כך מצפה מהם להירתם לעזרתו, על אף שהוא משבש טיסות מדי יום במתכוון, על חשבון מאות נוסעים".
מהנהלת חברת אל על נמסר בתגובה לדברים: "ההתפטרות היא עדות נוספת ללחץ שמנסה להפעיל ניר צוק, יו״ר נציגות הטייסים בוועד, על ההנהלה. התפטרותם (של הבכירים - ג.מ.) תיכנס לתוקף בעוד 3 חודשים".
Post by: Yehuda25 on November 20, 2016, 08:26:39 PM
Crazy
Post by: ExGingi on November 20, 2016, 08:33:00 PM
Post by: davidch on November 20, 2016, 10:11:01 PM
Anyone know if it'll be canceled?
Post by: ExGingi on November 20, 2016, 10:28:57 PM
I have a elal flight leaving Tuesday from Newark.Only Hashem knows.
Anyone know if it'll be canceled?
If I were you I would ask ELAL for a refund and book on an airline that has a better chance of getting you there when you expect to.
Post by: travel agent on November 21, 2016, 08:48:18 AM
BKK is cancelled again
YYZ is delayed from 00:35 to 9:00
Post by: shimino1 on November 21, 2016, 09:43:07 AM
The battle lines have bean drawn. The pilots don't want to be stuck in New York or Bangkok or wherever away from their family's while they wait out the clock to be able to fly back home and therefore wish to return immediately to Israel in the next flight all the while being paid and getting other perks (business class seats, etc').
ElAl does not want to fly out 2 flight crews for every flight, one to fly there and one to fly back and wants to be able to rely on crews staying in the destination city long enough to fly a plane back to Israel.
On the whole Elal management sucks but I can't help like feeling they are correct in this fight and are finely taking a stand against the pilot's union extortion.
Post by: chff on November 21, 2016, 09:55:25 AM
It's all out war!Don't think there is any other airline doing so, except maybe where there is once twice a week then the pilots fly back with the next flight.
The battle lines have bean drawn. The pilots don't want to be stuck in New York or Bangkok or wherever away from their family's while they wait out the clock to be able to fly back home and therefore wish to return immediately to Israel in the next flight all the while being paid and getting other perks (business class seats, etc').
ElAl does not want to fly out 2 flight crews for every flight, one to fly there and one to fly back and wants to be able to rely on crews staying in the destination city long enough to fly a plane back to Israel.
On the whole Elal management sucks but I can't help like feeling they are correct in this fight and are finely taking a stand against the pilot's union extortion.
During one of the wars in Israel, KLM did AMS-TLV-LCA-AMS so the crew could stay in LCA instead of TLV.
A pilot on SQ told me they sleep in FRA, do NYC, sleep there, back to FRA and sleep, and pilot the next day back.
So seriously don't know what stupidity got into the LY crew to request this.
Will say, many times the union does ask for stuff that seems crazy. AC for example, the 787 has a pilot bunk with 2/3 beds, but they still need to block a premium economy seat for them
Post by: eliesquire on November 21, 2016, 10:22:14 AM
Post by: yandmk on November 21, 2016, 10:51:25 AM
Don't think there is any other airline doing so, except maybe where there is once twice a week then the pilots fly back with the next flight.A few days ago, I read somewhere (don't remember where) that this is due to a law (going into effect May 2018) that will require a 5 day break between flights, which would keep them away from home longer as well as significantly cutting their work hours. They are therefore demanding to fly home AND still get paid since they aren't allowed to fly. (I believe now they can fly twice weekly - once back and forth. CMIIW)
During one of the wars in Israel, KLM did AMS-TLV-LCA-AMS so the crew could stay in LCA instead of TLV.
A pilot on SQ told me they sleep in FRA, do NYC, sleep there, back to FRA and sleep, and pilot the next day back.
So seriously don't know what stupidity got into the LY crew to request this.
Will say, many times the union does ask for stuff that seems crazy. AC for example, the 787 has a pilot bunk with 2/3 beds, but they still need to block a premium economy seat for them
Post by: Moshe123 on November 21, 2016, 11:07:05 AM
It's all out war!
The battle lines have bean drawn. The pilots don't want to be stuck in New York or Bangkok or wherever away from their family's while they wait out the clock to be able to fly back home and therefore wish to return immediately to Israel in the next flight all the while being paid and getting other perks (business class seats, etc').
ElAl does not want to fly out 2 flight crews for every flight, one to fly there and one to fly back and wants to be able to rely on crews staying in the destination city long enough to fly a plane back to Israel.
On the whole Elal management sucks but I can't help like feeling they are correct in this fight and are finely taking a stand against the pilot's union extortion.
This
Post by: travel agent on November 21, 2016, 11:34:07 AM
הראשון שבהם היה הראשון לציון והרב הראשי לישראל הגאון רבי יצחק יוסף, שיצא בסוף השבוע שעבר לביקור בזק בארה"ב לחיזוק קהילת 'שערי ציון' בניו יורק וחיזוק קהילות יהודיות נוספות. הראשל"צ לא טס בחברת אל על מלכתחילה בגלל החשש מעיכובים, וכך גם בחזור טס בחברה זרה.
יצויין שמדובר באופן חריג בו הגר"י יוסף לא טס באל על, ובעבר אף שלח מכתב למנכ"ל חברת "אל על" אליעזר שקדי בו פסק כי אין לארגן מניין לתפילה במטוס במידה שהוא גורם הפרעה לאחרים והוסיף: "כמעשה אבות יעשו בנים, גם אני רגיל במשך עשרות שנים לטוס אך ורק בחברה אל על".
גם הרב הראשי האשכנזי הגאון רבי דוד לאו שהה בימים האחרונים בארה"ב. בשבת האחרונה שהה בבולטימור בקרב הקהילות היהודיות, משם תכנן לחזור כבר ביום ראשון בלילה, בטיסת אל על מניו יורק, אלא שהטיסה בוטלה בעקבות העיצומים, והרב הראשי נאלץ לטוס עם חברה זרה באמצעות טיסת קונקשן.
בתוך כך אל על מבקשת לעדכן כי בשל עיצומי הטייסים וחוסר ההיענות שלהם לאייש טיסות נדחתה טיסה 081 לבנגקוק שהייתה אמורה לצאת הערב מבוטלת. טיסה 027 לניו יורק שאמורה לצאת הערב
תצא במטוס חכור.
Post by: bjd on November 21, 2016, 12:05:31 PM
Has anyone been able to get a cancelation fee waiver code from ElAl? Care to share?i cancelled my flight that was scheduled for wednesday and was not charged a cancellation fee.
Post by: eliesquire on November 21, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
i cancelled my flight that was scheduled for wednesday and was not charged a cancellation fee.I finally was able to do the same. Travel Agent spent over an hour on the phone with ElAl trying to get the proper code. Ended up booking a flight on Lufthansa for a similar price, which was a miracle.
Post by: chff on November 21, 2016, 12:38:10 PM
I finally was able to do the same. Travel Agent spent over an hour on the phone with ElAl trying to get the proper code. Ended up booking a flight on Lufthansa for a similar price, which was a miracle.LH is striking this week as well
Post by: eliesquire on November 21, 2016, 12:43:40 PM
LH is striking this week as wellOMG. Are you F'ing kidding me???
Just saw that they are going on strike for 24 hours begining at midnight Wed. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-pilots-union-calls-for-strike-at-lufthansa-on-wednesday-2016-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-pilots-union-calls-for-strike-at-lufthansa-on-wednesday-2016-11) Wonderful. Ill be somewhere over the north atlantic and will get stuck in Frankfurt... At least they protect better than ElAl... right?
Post by: Yordai Dooma on November 21, 2016, 12:47:16 PM
I was trying to convince him to take the LH flight but he liked the OS times better
Post by: chff on November 21, 2016, 01:44:49 PM
OMG. Are you F'ing kidding me???
Just saw that they are going on strike for 24 hours begining at midnight Wed. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-pilots-union-calls-for-strike-at-lufthansa-on-wednesday-2016-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-pilots-union-calls-for-strike-at-lufthansa-on-wednesday-2016-11) Wonderful. Ill be somewhere over the north atlantic and will get stuck in Frankfurt... At least they protect better than ElAl... right?
Sure, your TA should be able to rebook you once LH gives out a waiver code.
I had a client during a strike he called LH on his own to have him rebooked, and LH did so and send the tickets to be issued (the phone rep 98% of the time can not issue) and when he got to the airport some 12 hours later it still wasn't reissued, and he had to pay that airline in full. Took a few months till I got back the money from LH.
Post by: chayie on November 21, 2016, 01:46:42 PM
i have a points reservation on a flight from EWR-TLV on Nov. 30, returning December 4th.
I don't know much at all about this current ElAl issues.
Does anyone think I should get my points refunded and book with another airline, or should I just wait it out?
Thanks
Post by: moe8555 on November 21, 2016, 01:51:36 PM
Hi
i have a points reservation on a flight from EWR-TLV on Nov. 30, returning December 4th.
I don't know much at all about this current ElAl issues.
Does anyone think I should get my points refunded and book with another airline, or should I just wait it out?
Thanks
Officially, your travel period falls outside the potential "strike territory," which is expected to occur around Dec. 5-6. De facto, they're already on strike ;D
Post by: eliesquire on November 21, 2016, 02:25:41 PM
Sure, your TA should be able to rebook you once LH gives out a waiver code.United just rebooked my entire flight to and from, with seat upgrades because of the late hour, gratis. Completley unexpected and mind blowing. Now that's customer service. Kudos to them.
I had a client during a strike he called LH on his own to have him rebooked, and LH did so and send the tickets to be issued (the phone rep 98% of the time can not issue) and when he got to the airport some 12 hours later it still wasn't reissued, and he had to pay that airline in full. Took a few months till I got back the money from LH.
Post by: chff on November 21, 2016, 02:31:15 PM
Now that's customer service. Kudos to them.
And sometimes UA is even worse then LY. Everyone has their good & bad
Post by: yakov116 on November 21, 2016, 02:35:29 PM
And sometimes UA is even worse then LY. Everyone has their good & bad
I have yet to see the good in ELAL enlighten me
Post by: 159dallas on November 21, 2016, 02:48:58 PM
Post by: travel agent on November 21, 2016, 04:13:51 PM
What are my options if i have an ELAL flight booked Tommorow-Monday from JFK-TLV?
to refund & rebook.
Post by: davidch on November 21, 2016, 08:17:44 PM
So it seems like my flight tom from Newark will depart, but they will be using a different plane...
Wish me luck:)
Post by: travel agent on November 22, 2016, 06:47:26 AM
OMG. Are you F'ing kidding me???
Just saw that they are going on strike for 24 hours begining at midnight Wed. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-pilots-union-calls-for-strike-at-lufthansa-on-wednesday-2016-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-pilots-union-calls-for-strike-at-lufthansa-on-wednesday-2016-11) Wonderful. Ill be somewhere over the north atlantic and will get stuck in Frankfurt... At least they protect better than ElAl... right?
there is now a waiver for LH, for all flights on 11/23
Post by: bjd on November 22, 2016, 10:05:37 AM
Post by: ilherman on November 22, 2016, 10:17:28 AM
Post by: eliesquire on November 22, 2016, 10:18:12 AM
I just got a call from Elal that since my flight was booked on Priceline I had to get my refund through them. I called them, but they told me that they don't see anything from Elal stating that they are waiving cancellation fees. Does anyone have an official elal link stating that they are waiving cancellation fees?It's no longer on their website, but here's a link to a picture of what they had on their website yesterday. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dms1y22nhi0t7f7/ELALCancel.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dms1y22nhi0t7f7/ELALCancel.jpg?dl=0)
Post by: bjd on November 22, 2016, 10:30:12 AM
Post by: ad120 on November 22, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: sky121 on November 22, 2016, 11:19:15 AM
My brother flew LY from JFK to TLV on Sat nite in J. Seats were worse than PS J. He got a free RT in J anywhere LY flies.What was wrong with the seats?
Post by: tavster on November 22, 2016, 11:52:45 AM
My brother flew LY from JFK to TLV on Sat nite in J. Seats were worse than PS J. He got a free RT in J anywhere LY flies.
Which airline was that?Hi Fly?
Post by: ad120 on November 22, 2016, 12:11:50 PM
Which airline was that?Hi Fly?he prob won't remember
What was wrong with the seats?they were really bad. Limited recline and very narrow. Worse that us domestic j
Post by: ilherman on November 22, 2016, 12:19:43 PM
I have limited seats in J with DL and Ua. Pm before I release them.
Post by: Yordai Dooma on November 22, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
looks like both of todays UA flights have availability for 85K UA in Y
Post by: travel agent on November 22, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Post by: ExGingi on November 22, 2016, 08:39:40 PM
Post by: tavster on November 23, 2016, 09:33:25 AM
Post by: damaxer91 on November 23, 2016, 09:45:07 AM
Tonight's flight to JFK wet leased to Privilege Style, and the flight to EWR wet leased to Hi Fly...
Which is worse?
Post by: travel agent on November 23, 2016, 10:29:43 AM
PEK is cancelled
YYZ is delayed to 9:00
LAX is cancelled
Post by: YudiG on November 23, 2016, 11:19:37 AM
Post by: ExGingi on November 23, 2016, 11:28:13 AM
Link to elal flight schedule updates added as wikiThis great airline can't even take a minute to put the flight updates typo free.
So many typos on such a small page. Is this a symptom of their flawed DNA of disrespect for their customers?
Post by: ilherman on November 23, 2016, 12:37:24 PM
Which is worse?High Fly has some nice planes. Some are nice flat bed even nicer than LY. Depends on the equipment. 777 with no F is nice.
Post by: tavster on November 23, 2016, 12:56:06 PM
High Fly has some nice planes. Some are nice flat bed even nicer than LY. Depends on the equipment. 777 with no F is nice.
Here we're talking about A330. I couldn't find any info on their seats in J. Anyone?
Post by: LoLo on November 23, 2016, 01:14:18 PM
Here we're talking about A330. I couldn't find any info on their seats in J. Anyone?No guarantee on accuracy http://www.seatmaestro.com/airlines-seating-maps/hi-fly/
Post by: ilherman on November 23, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
High Fly has some nice planes. Some are nice flat bed even nicer than LY. Depends on the equipment. 777 with no F is nice.Sorry there is no 777 it's a333 and a340 here is a link to the nice one http://www.hifly.aero/en/a340/cs-tfw.html
The a340 with no F are nice. The a340 with F are crap
Post by: jr611 on November 23, 2016, 04:00:06 PM
Sorry there is no 777 it's a333 and a340 here is a link to the nice one http://www.hifly.aero/en/a340/cs-tfw.htmlthe nice one is the same plane azerbaijan flew to jfk before the 787. the business was pretty nice, aging but better than el al
The a340 with no F are nice. The a340 with F are crap
Post by: travel agent on November 23, 2016, 04:00:55 PM
Post by: tavster on November 23, 2016, 04:32:54 PM
Sorry there is no 777 it's a333 and a340 here is a link to the nice one http://www.hifly.aero/en/a340/cs-tfw.html
The a340 with no F are nice. The a340 with F are crap
On which LY route did you see the A340? I can only see the A330 being operated, mostly to Newark. And based on pictures on Hi Fly's website it looks like seats in J barely recline
Post by: ExGingi on November 23, 2016, 04:45:48 PM
On which LY route did you see the A340? I can only see the A330 being operated, mostly to Newark. And based on pictures on Hi Fly's website it looks like seats in J barely reclineHi Fly seems to have 3 configurations for the A330 one of them with over 300 seats has a business class that has sub 40" pitch. The other two look more normal.
Sorry there is no 777 it's a333 and a340 here is a link to the nice one http://www.hifly.aero/en/a340/cs-tfw.html
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 23, 2016, 08:53:45 PM
Post by: damaxer91 on November 23, 2016, 09:23:36 PM
Surprised to see LY2 from JFK on Elal metal
Prob one of the pilots is making a Chasunah
Post by: Ergel on November 24, 2016, 10:51:50 AM
Prob one of the pilots is making a ChasunahIt's funny cause it's true
Post by: moe8555 on November 24, 2016, 12:56:02 PM
It's funny cause it's true
Curious how you know this? ???
Post by: travel agent on November 26, 2016, 03:33:52 PM
also flights from ZRH & TXL from Fri. are arriving now on Motzei shabos.
Post by: Moshe123 on November 27, 2016, 02:12:35 PM
http://mobile.mako.co.il/news-money/economy-q4_2016/Article-045371dea07a851004.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=2100566639
Post by: ExGingi on November 27, 2016, 02:33:20 PM
El Al strike ending.It has been rumored in the past, let's see what happens.
http://mobile.mako.co.il/news-money/economy-q4_2016/Article-045371dea07a851004.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=2100566639
That being said, let's hope that this results in a major effort to regain customer loyalty, which would reverberate across the competition.
Post by: Cashman on November 27, 2016, 06:16:20 PM
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.755670?v=33C55E8E041C5585D70E20B31E2853DD
Post by: ExGingi on November 27, 2016, 07:55:32 PM
Being reported here as well. Say good riddance to Hi fly and Privilege airlinesIndeed, it's being widely reported.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.755670?v=33C55E8E041C5585D70E20B31E2853DD
I wonder what ELAL will do now to bring back the customers.
Post by: ad120 on November 28, 2016, 08:59:57 AM
let's hope that this results in a major effort to regain customer loyalty, which would reverberate across the competition.my money is on that wont happen.
Post by: SkinnnyJ on November 28, 2016, 12:18:10 PM
my money is on that wont happen.
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-talks-with-pilots-close-to-breaking-down-1001163575
Post by: Emkay on November 28, 2016, 12:27:24 PM
I highly doubt they lost any noticeable percentage of target customers.
I wonder what ELAL will do now to bring back the customers.
Post by: efflpetzel on November 28, 2016, 06:14:48 PM
I highly doubt they lost any noticeable percentage of target customers.+100.
they know their market very well
Post by: Ploni3 on November 28, 2016, 06:19:52 PM
Post by: ExGingi on November 28, 2016, 08:06:45 PM
Meanwhile, something funny is going on. They have wiped availability from the 12/25 and 12/27 YYZ/TLV flights where there was plenty of availability yesterday and lots of seats showing open. Perhaps they're considering switching those flights back to LY metal and will have a smaller plane...Which equipment did they use on the wet lease? IINM they use 767 on YYZ route.
Post by: Ploni3 on November 28, 2016, 08:32:23 PM
Post by: moe8555 on November 29, 2016, 05:00:54 AM
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-talks-with-pilots-close-to-breaking-down-1001163575 (http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-talks-with-pilots-close-to-breaking-down-1001163575)
The "minor outstanding issues" apparently weren't so minor and the pilots decided to break off negotiations.
Post by: 159dallas on November 29, 2016, 10:30:37 AM
Post by: JoeyShmoe on November 29, 2016, 11:23:19 AM
Post by: 159dallas on November 29, 2016, 11:24:39 AM
I need to fly to Israel in the beginning of January for a short in and out, my best option currently is $869 through El Al. Should I be worried?
I would be worried flying ELAL period.... Actually that may be a bit harsh but if the difference is minimal i would pay it.
Post by: JoeyShmoe on November 29, 2016, 11:26:39 AM
I would be worried flying ELAL period.... Actually that may be a bit harsh but if the difference is minimal i would pay it.Difference isn't minimal at all, additionally I'm not planning on being in Israel long enough for a stopover to make sense. In short, this is my only option as far as I (and 2 other travel agents) can see. My question is about being worried regarding the strike/wet leasing situation
Post by: 159dallas on November 29, 2016, 11:28:34 AM
Post by: efflpetzel on November 29, 2016, 11:41:51 AM
Post by: 159dallas on November 29, 2016, 12:27:43 PM
Post by: JoeyShmoe on November 29, 2016, 12:37:17 PM
The current situation in ELAL is tenuous i would be wary not worried. But i would still book.Thanks
Post by: avadah on November 30, 2016, 04:37:26 PM
Post by: efflpetzel on November 30, 2016, 05:09:02 PM
Clasd action against elal for lengthening flight times. http://m.jpost.com/Business-and-Innovation/El-Al-troubles-not-over-as-yet-unresolved-pilots-crisis-leads-to-class-action-lawsuit-474087#article=10389NjZCRkQ4RDlFQjE2QUMwQjJGNTNGQTg5NUY4NjU4QTc=If this sort of thing would've happened in the US, there would be a lawsuit in the billions
Post by: avadah on November 30, 2016, 05:10:26 PM
Post by: travel agent on December 01, 2016, 05:02:51 PM
Post by: travel agent on December 02, 2016, 05:51:17 AM
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 07:42:09 AM
the flight to EWR is delayed to 5:30.http://www.themarker.com/consumer/tourism/1.3140204
Post by: travel agent on December 02, 2016, 08:17:22 AM
not related to the strike, AMS - TLV today is cancelled due to late inbound plane, & unable to make the return before shabos.
actually they changed their mind, & the flight is operating & arriving in TLV at 18:49 !!! when its already night לכל הדעות.
so LY is not שומר שבת.
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 08:41:13 AM
actually they changed their mind, & the flight is operating & arriving in TLV at 18:49 !!! when its already night לכל הדעות.Unfortunately they never were. But there is some value to the fact that their flight schedule doesn't have flights scheduled to operate on Shabbos or first day Yomtov.
so LY is not שומר שבת.
Post by: nathan13 on December 02, 2016, 08:44:48 AM
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 08:48:07 AM
Frnd is scheduled on LY7 on Sunday from TLV how do I know what equipment it will be? Also if it's cancelledIf they have your cell phone number you will probably get a text message.
Post by: nathan13 on December 02, 2016, 08:51:26 AM
If they have your cell phone number you will probably get a text message.Thats on the cancelation part what about equipment?
Post by: ExGingi on December 02, 2016, 08:59:29 AM
Thats on the cancelation part what about equipment?My FIL recently took an ELAL flight and got notified by SMS that flight will be operated by Hi Fly.
Post by: nathan13 on December 02, 2016, 09:07:54 AM
My FIL recently took an ELAL flight and got notified by SMS that flight will be operated by Hi Fly.TY.
Post by: Cashman on December 04, 2016, 12:01:05 PM
http://www.iba.org.il/bet/?entity=1198301&type=1
Post by: 159dallas on December 05, 2016, 12:58:38 AM
And the agreement has been signed. FINALLY !!!YAY
http://www.iba.org.il/bet/?entity=1198301&type=1
Post by: high end hobo on December 07, 2016, 09:31:38 AM
Post by: travel agent on December 14, 2016, 02:17:11 PM
the flight to YYZ is delayed from 00:35 to 5:15
HKG is delayed by just 30 min.
Post by: avadah on December 15, 2016, 04:00:50 PM
its starting againHow do you know it's not just regular delays?
the flight to YYZ is delayed from 00:35 to 5:15
HKG is delayed by just 30 min.
Post by: travel agent on December 15, 2016, 04:10:54 PM
How do you know it's not just regular delays?
the reason for the delay was: no pilot available.
Post by: travel agent on January 05, 2017, 12:00:17 PM
from elal.com: עקב סיבות מבצעיות הטיסה תבצע עצירה בפריז למשך כשעה
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 05, 2017, 01:22:03 PM
Post by: ExGingi on January 05, 2017, 01:26:16 PM
I'm leaving JFK to TLV on Motzei Shabbos and returning Tuesday morning 9:40 from TLV, I hope they don't mess anything up!!!Ask your LOR if you're allowed to take an ELAL flight on Motzoei Shabbos.
To quote the Mukancher from the famous video: אמעריקאנע אידן. היט דעם הייליגן שבת, וועט די הייליגע שבת אויף אייך היטן. (paraphrasing from memory).
Post by: SearchGuy on January 05, 2017, 01:30:54 PM
Ask your LOR if you're allowed to take an ELAL flight on Motzoei Shabbos.LOL
To quote the Mukancher from the famous video: אמעריקאנע אידן. היט דעם הייליגן שבת, וועט די הייליגע שבת אויף אייך היטן. (paraphrasing from memory).
Post by: ExGingi on January 05, 2017, 01:32:50 PM
LOLI fail to see what's funny about what I wrote.
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 05, 2017, 01:33:07 PM
Ask your LOR if you're allowed to take an ELAL flight on Motzoei Shabbos.IINM the problem is only from TLV, since there's a very high likelihood that the plane was prepared on Shabbos by Yidden, which isn't the case in JFK
To quote the Mukancher from the famous video: אמעריקאנע אידן. היט דעם הייליגן שבת, וועט די הייליגע שבת אויף אייך היטן. (paraphrasing from memory).
Post by: sruli1234 on January 05, 2017, 01:33:33 PM
LOL
It's no laughing matter.
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 05, 2017, 01:39:02 PM
Ask your LOR if you're allowed to take an ELAL flight on Motzoei Shabbos.Ahem...
To quote the Mukancher from the famous video: אמעריקאנע אידן. היט דעם הייליגן שבת, וועט די הייליגע שבת אויף אייך היטן. (paraphrasing from memory).
I took a Motzoei Shabbos ELAL flight, but that was in the winter. The experience kept me away from ELAL ever since, so the שאלה hasn't been an issue for me.:)
I don't know about taking it in the summer, I would suspect that it might be a problem, which is why I said one should ask LOR. That being said, causing צער to another Yid on Shabbos by making a statement about something that might happen on Motzoei Shabbos is also something to ask an LOR about.
The one time that I was advised on a summer Friday that I must leave on Motzoei Shabbos, DL happened to have been a better option (despite travel agent trying to push ELAL) so didn't have to ask. Since that flight also involved a מצוות עשה, I am not sure what the answer would have been if I would have asked about taking an ELAL flight two hours after Shabbos.
Post by: username on January 05, 2017, 01:40:55 PM
To quote the Mukancher from the famous video: אמעריקאנע אידן. היט דעם הייליגן שבת, וועט די הייליגע שבת אויף אייך היטן. (paraphrasing from memory).
Post by: ExGingi on January 05, 2017, 02:02:53 PM
Ahem...:)Quote
I took a Motzoei Shabbos ELAL flight, but that was in the winter. The experience kept me away from ELAL ever since, so the שאלה hasn't been an issue for me.
I don't know about taking it in the summer, I would suspect that it might be a problem, which is why I said one should ask LOR. That being said, causing צער to another Yid on Shabbos by making a statement about something that might happen on Motzoei Shabbos is also something to ask an LOR about.
The one time that I was advised on a summer Friday that I must leave on Motzoei Shabbos, DL happened to have been a better option (despite travel agent trying to push ELAL) so didn't have to ask. Since that flight also involved a מצוות עשה, I am not sure what the answer would have been if I would have asked about taking an ELAL flight two hours after Shabbos.
I didn't say it is not permissible, I said ask your LOR. In the winter if there are 5 or 6 hours from the end of Shabbos until the flight, it might be OK, or at least a mitigating factor.
Also, in my specific case the ticket was not purchased in advance, but rather at the airport just prior to the flight. IDK, but that might also be a mitigating factor from a Shabbos perspective.
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 05, 2017, 02:32:40 PM
There's 6 hours from Motzei Shabbos until the flight, I will B'li Neder ask a LOR, I'm fairly certain that it isn't an issue
I didn't say it is not permissible, I said ask your LOR. In the winter if there are 5 or 6 hours from the end of Shabbos until the flight, it might be OK, or at least a mitigating factor.
Also, in my specific case the ticket was not purchased in advance, but rather at the airport just prior to the flight. IDK, but that might also be a mitigating factor from a Shabbos perspective.
Post by: Albee412 on January 16, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/512320/el-al-pilots-threaten-a-resumption-of-job-actions-next-week.html
Post by: cholent on February 02, 2017, 01:08:16 AM
Post by: travel agent on February 02, 2017, 08:21:54 AM
Post by: Jkhein on February 02, 2017, 08:46:28 AM
the flight tonight to EWR is delayed to 5:30Yup also to jfk. Are these pilot strikes?
Post by: yandmk on February 04, 2017, 01:15:39 PM
TLV - JFK (LY1)
TLV - BOS (LY15)
DME - TLV (LY618)
Post by: tavster on February 04, 2017, 03:17:54 PM
Yup also to jfk. Are these pilot strikes?
Yes, according to ElAl post on their Facebook page.
Post by: avadah on February 04, 2017, 04:34:12 PM
Post by: yandmk on February 04, 2017, 04:55:32 PM
Was on ly 1. They're putting me on the toronto flight and sending me to nyc with westjet. Do I need to pick up my luggage ?Should get transferred automatically. They have an agreement. But why don't you ask at check-in counter?
Post by: ExGingi on February 04, 2017, 07:44:01 PM
Was on ly 1. They're putting me on the toronto flight and sending me to nyc with westjet. Do I need to pick up my luggage ?IME when connecting at YYZ to a final destination in US, you need to clear US customs at YYZ. Though IIRC you don't actually retrieve your luggage, you stand in a room and identify it on a video monitor.
Post by: bklyn on February 04, 2017, 11:44:28 PM
Tomorrow's flights cancelled.
Post by: EJB on February 05, 2017, 12:01:31 AM
Post by: cholent on February 05, 2017, 12:08:05 AM
How do you make an israeli aviation law claim with el al?It seems they are exempt from paying compensation if the delays and cancellations are caused by pilot strikes
Post by: travel agent on February 05, 2017, 06:24:13 AM
flight 7 to JFK
MAD
WAW
LHR
Post by: moe8555 on February 05, 2017, 07:02:32 AM
Post by: avadah on February 05, 2017, 07:13:57 AM
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on February 05, 2017, 07:15:35 AM
Why are they striking again/already?http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4917562,00.html
Post by: ar on February 05, 2017, 07:24:12 AM
And flight to Paris operated by Israir. What happens to the J and F customers in this instance?
You can cancel your flight for free... OR show up for your flight and be seated in Y - and they will give you a free rountrip business class ticket to anywhere in Europe.
Post by: moe8555 on February 05, 2017, 07:27:25 AM
You can cancel your flight for free... OR show up for your flight and be seated in Y - and they will give you a free rountrip business class ticket to anywhere in Europe.
Wow, kinda hope this happens to my Friday flight to VIE in J ::)
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2017, 07:30:37 AM
Wow, kinda hope this happens to my Friday flight to VIE in J ::)You know the old saying: be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
Post by: moe8555 on February 05, 2017, 07:48:06 AM
You know the old saying: be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
Haha very true. Honestly, I'd just rather have a nice, relaxing vacation according to my scheduled flights and in my scheduled class of service.
Post by: EJB on February 05, 2017, 08:38:22 AM
It seems they are exempt from paying compensation if the delays and cancellations are caused by pilot strikesEven if pilots claim they aren't on strike lol. How do you claim?
Post by: yandmk on February 05, 2017, 08:57:46 AM
Even if pilots claim they aren't on strike lol. How do you claim?
1. Go to Elal.com
2. On the bottom of the page click "Get in Touch"
3. Click "Email Us"
4, Click "Flight Delay/Cancellation" and continue
5. Fill out form
6. Enjoy your extra cash
Post by: yandmk on February 05, 2017, 09:03:02 AM
"A special welcome to our Elal guests. We hope we can keep you as customers"
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2017, 09:12:18 AM
As a result of cancellations last night, many were reprotected on Delta as well as some other airlines. A passenger who flew DL last night to JFK said that they announced before takeoff:If only DL would increase their daily schedule NYC-TLV to more than a single daily flight.
"A special welcome to our Elal guests. We hope we can keep you as customers"
Post by: yandmk on February 05, 2017, 09:15:20 AM
If only DL would increase their daily schedule NYC-TLV to more than a single daily flight.They did last summer, but for some reason (although surprising) they felt that it wasn't successful and stopped it in early Sep
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2017, 10:27:12 AM
They did last summer, but for some reason (although surprising) they felt that it wasn't successful and stopped it in early SepI am fully aware of that. Though it wasn't daily, like UA has out of EWR. However maybe now with the disenchantment with LY, maybe DL will seize on the opportunity and set up a solid schedule.
Post by: travel agent on February 05, 2017, 11:04:34 AM
JNB
notice from TLV:
הודעה חשובה –
בעקבות שבושים וביטולי טיסות של חברת אל-על,
ציבור הנוסעים של החברה מתבקש, לפני הגעה לנמל, להתעדכן טלפונית
דרך מודיעין נתב"ג בטלפון 03-9755555
או בחברת אל על בטלפון 03-9771111
הנהלת נתב"ג
Post by: yandmk on February 05, 2017, 11:31:45 AM
Post by: yelped on February 05, 2017, 02:15:45 PM
ETA. Scratch that. Missed Yankel's post.
Post by: moe8555 on February 05, 2017, 03:15:31 PM
Post by: travel agent on February 05, 2017, 04:31:06 PM
Post by: popcorn1508 on February 05, 2017, 06:10:31 PM
1. Go to Elal.comHow much are we talking about.
2. On the bottom of the page click "Get in Touch"
3. Click "Email Us"
4, Click "Flight Delay/Cancellation" and continue
5. Fill out form
6. Enjoy your extra cash
Post by: travel agent on February 06, 2017, 07:07:32 AM
LY1 tonight delayed to 2:30pm tomorrow
ended up cancelled
also AMS for this afternoon is cancelled.
Post by: ar on February 06, 2017, 08:14:45 AM
Post by: 159dallas on February 06, 2017, 09:32:46 AM
What's going on? Another pilot problem?Yes
Post by: travel agent on February 06, 2017, 12:54:34 PM
Post by: yandmk on February 06, 2017, 01:56:44 PM
Post by: moe8555 on February 06, 2017, 02:50:42 PM
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-court-orders-el-al-pilots-to-end-flight-cancelations-1001175722
Looks like they are disregarding the order. The cancellations are still rolling in (Beijing, Hong Kong) and tomorrow's flight from Madrid will be operated by Israir.
As posted in Hebrew on El Al's Facebook:
לקוחות יקרים,
לצערנו טייסי אל על החליטו להתעלם מצו בית משפט,
הערב נאלצה החברה לבטל את טיסה 075 להונג קונג וטיסה 076 חזרה
וכן את טיסה 095 לבייג׳ין וטיסה 096 חזרה, עקב אי היענות הצוותים לאייש את הטיסות.
אנו מתנצלים על הפגיעה בלקוחות ופועלים למצוא להם פתרונות.
Post by: tavster on February 06, 2017, 04:26:24 PM
Post by: yandmk on February 07, 2017, 07:46:32 AM
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2017, 12:00:18 PM
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4922425,00.html
Post by: Ergel on February 18, 2017, 06:22:29 PM
Do I have any recourse?
Am I eligible for Israeli aviation law payment?
Can someone help me find award availability that is leaving late afternoon/night on Monday and gets me into YYZ Tuesday morning?
Post by: ilherman on February 18, 2017, 07:36:20 PM
My flight Monday night/Tuesday morning tlv-yyz was pushed back from 12:45 AM to 6 AM. Will cause my to miss a day of work.You can try to call LY to reprotect you on AC if that works better for your schedule.
Do I have any recourse?
Am I eligible for Israeli aviation law payment?
Can someone help me find award availability that is leaving late afternoon/night on Monday and gets me into YYZ Tuesday morning?
Post by: ExGingi on February 18, 2017, 08:34:04 PM
You can try to call LY to reprotect you on AC if that works better for your schedule.AC leaves in the AM, he asked for afternoon/night. Should ask ELAL to put on a connection to YYZ through NYC.
Post by: ExGingi on February 18, 2017, 09:06:23 PM
Post by: travel agent on February 19, 2017, 12:53:10 PM
Post by: ExGingi on February 19, 2017, 01:01:22 PM
CDG tomorrow morning is cancelled.What's going on now? From the news it seemed like they reached an agreement on all fronts.
Post by: travel agent on February 19, 2017, 01:02:53 PM
Post by: ExGingi on February 19, 2017, 01:07:41 PM
never trust themI don't think that anyone around here would think that I have any inclination to trust LY.
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2017, 05:00:05 PM
AC leaves in the AM, he asked for afternoon/night. Should ask ELAL to put on a connection to YYZ through NYC.I tried. They were willing to protect me onto the united flight into Newark. But they couldn't get me into a continuing flight to Canada as they are all code shares (they can't even put me onto a DBA united Express flight). Guy on the phone actually seemed competent and really tried to help. Anything else I can do?
Anyone know anyone at global tours? Booked the flight through them. They didn't alert me to the change and haven't responded to my emails asking for help. Isn't that the point of getting a travel agent?
Post by: ExGingi on February 19, 2017, 05:07:52 PM
I tried. They were willing to protect me onto the united flight into Newark. But they couldn't get me into a continuing flight to Canada as they are all code shares (they can't even put me onto a DBA united Express flight). Guy on the phone actually seemed competent and really tried to help. Anything else I can do?What about LY or DL flight into JFK, and connect from there to YYZ (DL, WestJet, AA)? Might need airport change to LGA, but not the end of the world.
Anyone know anyone at global tours? Booked the flight through them. They didn't alert me to the change and haven't responded to my emails asking for help. Isn't that the point of getting a travel agent?
IME airlines won't come up with decent protection options. You need to find a routing that suits you (in most cases that would revolve upon when you arrive and/or what connections you have to make) and have ELAL protect you on the routing that gets you to your destination when you need to get there.
Post by: Ergel on February 19, 2017, 05:13:55 PM
What about LY or DL flight into JFK, and connect from there to YYZ (DL, WestJet, AA)? Might need airport change to LGA, but not the end of the world.Only one that works and gets me in early enough is DL, but that has the same problem in the connecting flight to YYZ (operated by Delta subsidiary)
IME airlines won't come up with decent protection options. You need to find a routing that suits you (in most cases that would revolve upon when you arrive and/or what connections you have to make) and have ELAL protect you on the routing that gets you to your destination when you need to get there.
Post by: ExGingi on February 19, 2017, 05:35:41 PM
Only one that works and gets me in early enough is DL, but that has the same problem in the connecting flight to YYZ (operated by Delta subsidiary)This is beyond my pay grade (for travel).
Try reaching out to the more experienced people and travel agents around here.
Maybe put this question on its own thread "Problem being protected on a flight requiring a connection with regional subsidiary". To draw more focused responses.
Post by: ExGingi on February 19, 2017, 07:00:56 PM
Only one that works and gets me in early enough is DL, but that has the same problem in the connecting flight to YYZ (operated by Delta subsidiary)How about LY to EWR and Porter to Toronto (if you work in downtown that's great - one of my favorite airports).
Post by: shimino1 on February 19, 2017, 07:33:27 PM
They didn't alert me to the change and haven't responded to my emails asking for help. Isn't that the point of getting a travel agent?It is the point of using an agent. Can't speak for others but I am proactive when it comes to helping my costumers if their flight changes or is cancelled. If you would like to give me a shot at your business, PM me and I will send you my contact info.
Post by: ExGingi on February 19, 2017, 10:18:41 PM
Anyone know anyone at global tours? Booked the flight through them. They didn't alert me to the change and haven't responded to my emails asking for help. Isn't that the point of getting a travel agent?Should Dan be demanding better service from DDMS advertisers?
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 09:27:47 AM
Post by: ilherman on February 20, 2017, 10:38:53 AM
Isn't that the point of getting a travel agent?You didn't get a travel agent. You called a big agency like you would call Priceline, Priceline is also a travel agency.
For the future get a good local travel agent not someone with a huge office, someone who you got good feedback, who you will have his cell number and be able to get through him whenever you need.
I know a lot of good travel agents where if you would be their client you would already be on your way with United with a connection to YYZ etc.
Post by: Dan on February 20, 2017, 10:43:36 AM
@dan or @jj1000 any contacts at global tours you can share with me that would get me in contact with global toursWhat did they say when you called them?
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 11:22:14 AM
What did they say when you called them?LOL. Never answered my calls.
Finally responded to my emails. Said they only work on weekdays
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 12:09:18 PM
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 12:22:25 PM
Quote
I'm sorry to learn that your flight was delayed by 5.5 hours. Elal has lately been experiencing major delays due to a variety of factors on many of their flights. They have taken it upon themselves to contact clients directly and don't expect the agents selling their tickets to deal with all these delays and the problems they cause.
Please keep in mind that while we strive to provide utmost service to our clients, we are still not an airline and work only 930-530 midweek.
Unfortunately, ELAL would not protect on United airlines. And of their partners such as AA, Swiss etc would return during the day.
Post by: lubaby on February 20, 2017, 12:25:01 PM
LOL. Never answered my calls.What if you needed to make a last minute change? They don't have ANY after hours service available?
Finally responded to my emails. Said they only work on weekdays
Time to find yourself a new agency..
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 12:29:44 PM
What if you needed to make a last minute change? They don't have ANY after hours service available?Indeed
Time to find yourself a new agency..
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 01:51:25 PM
You didn't get a travel agent. You called a big agency like you would call Priceline, Priceline is also a travel agency.Honestly just assumed that since they were advertised on Dan's deals that they were good and reputable. Obviously should have done my own research...
For the future get a good local travel agent not someone with a huge office, someone who you got good feedback, who you will have his cell number and be able to get through him whenever you need.
I know a lot of good travel agents where if you would be their client you would already be on your way with United with a connection to YYZ etc.
Post by: yelped on February 20, 2017, 02:10:47 PM
Honestly just assumed that since they were advertised on Dan's deals that they were good and reputable. Obviously should have done my own research...I have no experience, but they could still be reputable. Just not the most dedicated travel agency...
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 02:30:06 PM
I have no experience, but they could still be reputable. Just not the most dedicated travel agency...Agreed. I think they are reputable. Just won't go above and beyond
Post by: elya on February 20, 2017, 02:35:52 PM
Agreed. I think they are reputable. Just won't go above and beyondI dont think dealing with clients cancelled flight is considered "above and beyond". Its accepted and thereby expected procedure.
Post by: Dan on February 20, 2017, 02:42:06 PM
I dont think dealing with clients cancelled flight is considered "above and beyond". Its accepted and thereby expected procedure.Every travel agency offers weekend support?
Global seems to have access to cheaper fares than on OTAs. I'd assume people use them when they're cheaper, not for the support.
Either way, they've been advertising for a decade and I haven't heard of any major issues. But next time send me an email and I'd be happy to pass you through to someone.
Post by: ExGingi on February 20, 2017, 02:45:41 PM
I dont think dealing with clients cancelled flight is considered "above and beyond". Its accepted and thereby expected procedure.+1
Will Dan put his foot down, demanding better service, or banning advertiser?
Post by: elya on February 20, 2017, 02:47:14 PM
Every travel agency offers weekend support?Obviously I cant say every TA does. But the many I have dealt with, will gladly give you their cell number if theres a chance of flight cancellation.
Global seems to have access to cheaper fares than on OTAs. I'd assume people use them when they're cheaper, not for the support.
Either way, they've been advertising for a decade and I haven't heard of any major issues. But next time send me an email and I'd be happy to pass you through to someone.
But as you mentioned this specific TA is known for cheaper fares as opposed to service.
Post by: Dan on February 20, 2017, 02:47:42 PM
+1Did they promise weekend service somewhere?
Will Dan put his foot down, demanding better service, or banning advertiser?
But as you mentioned this specific TA is known for cheaper fares as opposed to service.Yup.
Post by: lubaby on February 20, 2017, 02:52:50 PM
Did they promise weekend service somewhere?Looking through their site it doesn't mention office hours anywhere.
Yup.
After hours (not just weekend) support is necessary IMHO if you're a travel agent.
What if you needed to make a last minute change? They don't have ANY after hours service available?
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 02:55:11 PM
Every travel agency offers weekend support?Thanks. Not blaming you...
Global seems to have access to cheaper fares than on OTAs. I'd assume people use them when they're cheaper, not for the support.
Either way, they've been advertising for a decade and I haven't heard of any major issues. But next time send me an email and I'd be happy to pass you through to someone.
I don't think that would have helped in this case
Post by: Dan on February 20, 2017, 02:56:52 PM
Looking through their site it doesn't mention office hours anywhere.Most travel agents don't save you any more, so they sell based on service, Many will tell you to call anytime.
After hours (not just weekend) support is necessary IMHO if you're a travel agent.
GT specializes in fares that are lower than what OTAs offer. If you ask about service hours they're not going to say to call anytime.
Thanks. Not blaming you...I'd always happy to pass along cases to advertisers. Email works best.
I don't think that would have helped in this case
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 08:29:02 PM
Post by: joeberg on February 20, 2017, 08:55:03 PM
Even if pilots claim they aren't on strike lol. How do you claim?
Any recourse for someone's who's flight tonight was canceled? The last few posts seem to indicate that not due to it being a pilot strike?Did anyone end up getting compensation for the cancellations 2/4-2/7 ?
ETA. Scratch that. Missed Yankel's post.
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 09:44:36 PM
Post by: EJB on February 20, 2017, 10:20:03 PM
Not eligible for protection under Israeli aviation law. Flight was moved less then 8 hours
Not the one my sister was on
Post by: Ergel on February 20, 2017, 10:23:18 PM
Not the one my sister was on?
Post by: ilherman on February 21, 2017, 12:36:41 AM
Honestly just assumed that since they were advertised on Dan's deals that they were good and reputable. Obviously should have done my own research...Well when you see advertisement on DD you can assume they are good and reputable meaning they are not fraud etc. Level of service is a whole different ball game. They can argue that if you have an emergency you can call the airline, they don't have to be available 24/7. So you can't demand anything from Dan etc. HOWEVER, it is your choice to find a travel agent who will personally take care of you.
Post by: ilherman on February 21, 2017, 12:42:27 AM
Post by: ad120 on February 21, 2017, 10:34:46 AM
And to clarify GT doesn't have anything major which you can't find online. Net fares you can get from your local travel agent. Where they specialize is group space on peak dates which of course may be a good deal.To which you will need 24/7 support in a case such as this one.
Post by: chff on February 21, 2017, 10:39:09 AM
To which you will need 24/7 support in a case such as this one.For what? The group space?
Post by: ad120 on February 21, 2017, 10:40:32 AM
?My mom was on LY1 and got delayed from 12;45 AM to 2PM. She went to the airport the next day and was informed that the flight was long canceled. No one contacted her at all. She was rebooked on AZ via FCO for the next day 7:30 AM. How much compensation is she entitled to? She sent a complaint to LY but all they said twas that they would be in touch with her shortly. Please advise...
Post by: ad120 on February 21, 2017, 10:41:32 AM
For what? The group space?yes. What happens if you need changes or the flight gets cancelled? You need a TA that is there for you...
Post by: chff on February 21, 2017, 10:47:01 AM
yes. What happens if you need changes or the flight gets cancelled? You need a TA that is there for you...Lol, group space is take it or leave, (90% of the time) there is no changes allowed. Flight gets cancelled? the airline has to move everyone and most of the time it's the bottom of the priority list
Post by: ad120 on February 21, 2017, 10:51:02 AM
Lol, group space is take it or leave, (90% of the time) there is no changes allowed. Flight gets cancelled? the airline has to move everyone and most of the time it's the bottom of the priority listDid not know that re priority. I pity those that are on the bottom of LY's list.
Post by: chff on February 21, 2017, 10:51:37 AM
Did not know that re priority. I pity those that are on the bottom of LY's list.Don't think he has space on LY
Post by: Ergel on February 21, 2017, 12:10:25 PM
My mom was on LY1 and got delayed from 12;45 AM to 2PM. She went to the airport the next day and was informed that the flight was long canceled. No one contacted her at all. She was rebooked on AZ via FCO for the next day 7:30 AM. How much compensation is she entitled to? She sent a complaint to LY but all they said twas that they would be in touch with her shortly. Please advise...Demand compensation based on Israeli aviation law
You can see details here
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.tourism-law.co.il/pdf/AviationServicesLawENG.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiL04ink6DSAhWHLsAKHeZTAlYQFggeMAE&usg=AFQjCNEQagy_MNeh2IphjXk4pJvpcbU9lA
Should be entitled to 3,000 shekels
Post by: cholent on February 21, 2017, 12:18:05 PM
Demand compensation based on Israeli aviation law
You can see details here
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.tourism-law.co.il/pdf/AviationServicesLawENG.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiL04ink6DSAhWHLsAKHeZTAlYQFggeMAE&usg=AFQjCNEQagy_MNeh2IphjXk4pJvpcbU9lA
Should be entitled to 3,000 shekels
Since the delay was caused by pilot action they may not be entitled to compensation.
Post by: ExGingi on February 21, 2017, 12:21:12 PM
Post by: ad120 on February 21, 2017, 12:35:18 PM
Since the delay was caused by pilot action they may not be entitled to compensation.So what is the deal? Does she get the cash or not?
Post by: shimino1 on February 21, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
Post by: ExGingi on February 21, 2017, 12:41:20 PM
I have this feeling that an LY delay is never their fault. It's always someone else that caused it....That.
It's the company culture that's at the root of everything about LY.
Post by: ad120 on February 22, 2017, 09:56:48 AM
So what is the deal? Does she get the cash or not?Dear Mom ad120,
Thank you for your email to El Al’s President, Mr. David Maimon who has asked me to reply to you on his behalf.
I understand the inconvenience that you were caused due to the changes that were made to the operation of El Al flight LY001/6th February 2017.
El Al management did everything within their power to maintain the operation of our flights according to schedule including a labour court order that instructed El Al pilots to return to work immediately and stop flight disruptions.
Regretfully, despite the above some of our flights were delayed and cancelled due to the unavailability of cockpit crew.
After reading the contents of your email we are very sorry for your experience before you flew, flying with Alittalia and that you missed a Brit Milah. As a token of our regret I would like to offer you a complimentary round-trip economy class electronic ticket voucher for any El Al flight.
Please confirm and I will then send the ticket voucher to you.
It is important to note that El Al does not compensate for loss of business, working days, events or meetings.
I hope that you will be able to overlook your disappointing experience and allow us the opportunity to serve you again so that we may restore your confidence in El Al.
Yours sincerely,
Caroline Low
Customer Relations
What do you guys say? Should I accept or am I entitled to 3,000 NIS?
Post by: chff on February 22, 2017, 11:17:47 AM
Dear Mom ad120,
Thank you for your email to El Al’s President, Mr. David Maimon who has asked me to reply to you on his behalf.
I understand the inconvenience that you were caused due to the changes that were made to the operation of El Al flight LY001/6th February 2017.
El Al management did everything within their power to maintain the operation of our flights according to schedule including a labour court order that instructed El Al pilots to return to work immediately and stop flight disruptions.
Regretfully, despite the above some of our flights were delayed and cancelled due to the unavailability of cockpit crew.
After reading the contents of your email we are very sorry for your experience before you flew, flying with Alittalia and that you missed a Brit Milah. As a token of our regret I would like to offer you a complimentary round-trip economy class electronic ticket voucher for any El Al flight.
Please confirm and I will then send the ticket voucher to you.
It is important to note that El Al does not compensate for loss of business, working days, events or meetings.
I hope that you will be able to overlook your disappointing experience and allow us the opportunity to serve you again so that we may restore your confidence in El Al.
Yours sincerely,
Caroline Low
Customer Relations
What do you guys say? Should I accept or am I entitled to 3,000 NIS?
3000 NIS is around $810 - you are getting here a free flight which is worth more
Post by: ExGingi on February 22, 2017, 11:23:39 AM
3000 NIS is around $810 - you are getting here a free flight which is worth moreBesides for the fact that NIS 3000 is not something you will get.
Post by: ad120 on February 22, 2017, 11:43:56 AM
Besides for the fact that NIS 3000 is not something you will get.Why do you say so?
3000 NIS is around $810 - you are getting here a free flight which is worth moreCash is king.
Also, how do I know that there aren't black out dates and economy fare class restrictions?
Post by: cholent on February 22, 2017, 11:52:31 AM
Why do you say so?
Because by law they are not obligated to give compensation when the delay was caused by a labor dispute
Post by: Jkhein on February 22, 2017, 12:11:16 PM
3000 NIS is around $810 - you are getting here a free flight which is worth morethese vouchers usually don't include tax which is a good few hundred dollars
Post by: ad120 on February 22, 2017, 12:15:17 PM
these vouchers usually don't include tax which is a good few hundred dollarsThen how would you respond? Demand that the taxes should be included?
Also wondering if you can do JFK-TLV-HKG-TLV-JFK on the same ticket witth a stop over in TLV for one/both directions?
Post by: EJB on February 22, 2017, 12:16:52 PM
Post by: ad120 on February 22, 2017, 12:33:29 PM
1. Go to Elal.com
2. On the bottom of the page click "Get in Touch"
3. Click "Email Us"
4, Click "Flight Delay/Cancellation" and continue
5. Fill out form
6. Enjoy your extra cash
Post by: ExGingi on February 22, 2017, 12:42:29 PM
Then how would you respond? Demand that the taxes should be included?Ever heard the expression רעבע, זיי ניט קיין כאָזער (needs to be pronounced with the proper Romanian dialect :) ).
Also wondering if you can do JFK-TLV-HKG-TLV-JFK on the same ticket witth a stop over in TLV for one/both directions?
I would guess that if they don't publish a NYC-HKG fare, it cannot be done, if they do, maybe you have a chance, but I doubt it.
On another note: who would want to subject themselves to the LY experience for so long???
Post by: ilherman on February 22, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
Dear Mom ad120,You emailed the President of elal or regular customer service?
Thank you for your email to El Al’s President, Mr. David Maimon who has asked me to reply to you on his behalf.
I understand the inconvenience that you were caused due to the changes that were made to the operation of El Al flight LY001/6th February 2017.
El Al management did everything within their power to maintain the operation of our flights according to schedule including a labour court order that instructed El Al pilots to return to work immediately and stop flight disruptions.
Regretfully, despite the above some of our flights were delayed and cancelled due to the unavailability of cockpit crew.
After reading the contents of your email we are very sorry for your experience before you flew, flying with Alittalia and that you missed a Brit Milah. As a token of our regret I would like to offer you a complimentary round-trip economy class electronic ticket voucher for any El Al flight.
Please confirm and I will then send the ticket voucher to you.
It is important to note that El Al does not compensate for loss of business, working days, events or meetings.
I hope that you will be able to overlook your disappointing experience and allow us the opportunity to serve you again so that we may restore your confidence in El Al.
Yours sincerely,
Caroline Low
Customer Relations
What do you guys say? Should I accept or am I entitled to 3,000 NIS?
Post by: ad120 on February 22, 2017, 01:55:02 PM
Ever heard the expression רעבע, זיי ניט קיין כאָזער (needs to be pronounced with the proper Romanian dialect :) ).I am going to milk every last penny from them.... And most of us here strongly dislike LY. But you are excessive. It seems like every post or every other post has negativity towards LY. Chill dude :o
I would guess that if they don't publish a NYC-HKG fare, it cannot be done, if they do, maybe you have a chance, but I doubt it.
On another note: who would want to subject themselves to the LY experience for so long???
You emailed the President of elal or regular customer service?Just followed the instructions on the upthread. IMO, the CEO thing just customer relations BS.It looks good and the customer feels like they are important.
Post by: chinagel on February 22, 2017, 01:56:38 PM
I am going to milk every last penny from them.... And most of us here strongly dislike LY. But you are excessive. It seems like every post or every other post has negativity towards LY. Chill dude :onot like they didnt earn it
Post by: ad120 on February 22, 2017, 02:50:47 PM
not like they didnt earn itI agree but its nauseating at this point.
Post by: EJB on February 23, 2017, 07:21:46 AM
Followed these stepsFor me it errored out when I tried this every time. I think I used multiple browsers.
Post by: David Smith on February 23, 2017, 07:28:11 AM
Post by: Ergel on February 23, 2017, 08:27:48 AM
I think they only issue the free ticket when the customer swears their experience was so bad they're never flying LY again. They're hoping you therefore won't end up using it.-1. Odds are the ticket ends up costing them very little because you likely won't end up on a completely full flight. They are hoping that your next experience is not as bad and will convince you to continue doing el AL
Post by: David Smith on February 23, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
-1. Odds are the ticket ends up costing them very little because you likely won't end up on a completely full flight. They are hoping that your next experience is not as bad and will convince you to continue doing el ALYeah, I was joking. That was just my experience the last 4 times I've gotten this.
Post by: ExGingi on February 23, 2017, 08:44:28 AM
Yeah, I was joking. That was just my experience the last 4 times I've gotten this.I guess the drawback of avoiding ELAL is not getting free flights after really bad experiences. :P
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 23, 2017, 08:54:49 AM
3000 NIS is around $810 - you are getting here a free flight which is worth more
While I agree "cash is king," I think Elal legally would not have to pay it; however, if you explain to them that you won't be able to use it within it's eligibility period, maybe they'll budge.
Post by: travel agent on February 26, 2017, 05:08:29 PM
Post by: AsherO on February 26, 2017, 05:52:52 PM
PEK - TLV is delayed 20 hours, mechanical?
Shouldn't the travel agent know?
Post by: travel agent on February 27, 2017, 12:57:09 PM
HKG delayed to 23:00
BOS delayed to 5:30
EWR delayed to 7:00
Post by: moe8555 on February 27, 2017, 01:17:25 PM
tonight:
HKG delayed to 23:00
BOS delayed to 5:30
EWR delayed to 7:00
Seems a bit much to be considered a coincidence. Is something new brewing?!
Post by: ExGingi on February 27, 2017, 10:05:35 PM
tonight:Was there any reason given?
HKG delayed to 23:00
BOS delayed to 5:30
EWR delayed to 7:00
Post by: travel agent on March 08, 2017, 08:41:46 AM
Post by: VLK on March 18, 2017, 02:24:26 PM
Post by: Emkay on March 18, 2017, 02:48:39 PM
Anyone else hear of a possibility that el al gonna strike this week ?I hope not.
Post by: Z56 on March 18, 2017, 03:10:24 PM
Post by: travel agent on March 18, 2017, 05:58:28 PM
HKG is delayed 3 hours.
EWR is delayed to 7:00
LAX is delayed to 5:30
Post by: VLK on March 18, 2017, 06:06:18 PM
Post by: yandmk on March 18, 2017, 06:10:39 PM
Everyone heading home this week ?Not home, but to chutz l'aretz 🤔
Post by: VLK on March 18, 2017, 06:20:49 PM
Post by: travel agent on March 19, 2017, 05:34:18 PM
BUD is delayed 4 hours
LAX is delayed to 5:30
tomorrow LAX is cancelled.
Post by: VLK on March 19, 2017, 09:26:16 PM
Any reason given ?
Post by: Ergel on March 19, 2017, 09:30:09 PM
Post by: ABC on March 22, 2017, 09:38:10 AM
Took them 4 weeks to reply to my email, they are only refunding me the cost for hotel and car.
No compensation.
Look what I wrote to them:
Quote
The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.
Our scheduled flight length was 2507 kilometres – [see here if you need to check flight length http://gc.kls2.com/], therefore I am seeking €400 per delayed passenger in my party. (Because it's more then 1500km but less than 3500km).
The total compensation sought is €2,000.
Anyone have experience taking them to court?
Post by: travel agent on April 04, 2017, 06:42:02 AM
Post by: travel agent on April 23, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
Post by: VLK on April 23, 2017, 08:33:55 PM
Post by: Ergel on April 23, 2017, 11:53:41 PM
Elal JFK-TLV tom at 1130pm delayed till 515am
Thanx
Any reason given ?
Post by: VLK on April 24, 2017, 01:25:52 AM
Post by: travel agent on July 03, 2017, 01:40:08 PM
BKK is delayed 2 hours
PEK is delayed 2:15
BOS is delayed 9:15
LAX is cancelled
LTN at 5:00 is cancelled
Post by: moe8555 on July 03, 2017, 02:48:19 PM
many delays today & tomorrow, will post only the major ones:
BKK is delayed 2 hours
PEK is delayed 2:15
BOS is delayed 9:15
LAX is cancelled
LTN at 5:00 is cancelled
Is this labor related?
Post by: travel agent on July 03, 2017, 05:13:15 PM
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 09:07:43 PM
Post by: Hjay on July 04, 2017, 03:07:31 PM
Also what's with all the delays tonight? Sounds like chaos.
Post by: tavster on July 04, 2017, 03:18:07 PM
TLV - JFK tonight delayed to 4:45. Is JFK - TLV 12:00 tomorrow the same aircraft & it's going to be delayed as well or nothing to do with each other?
Also what's with all the delays tonight? Sounds like chaos.
(Bloomberg) -- There may be restrictions on traffic in Israeli airspace this afternoon and evening due to planned, routine Defense Ministry activity, ministry says in text message.
NOTE: There were similar restrictions on Monday
Post by: ExGingi on July 04, 2017, 03:40:55 PM
Modi's visit?
(Bloomberg) -- There may be restrictions on traffic in Israeli airspace this afternoon and evening due to planned, routine Defense Ministry activity, ministry says in text message.
NOTE: There were similar restrictions on Monday
Post by: B.D.Da'ehu on July 04, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Modi's visit?They had this yesterday too...
Post by: travel agent on July 06, 2017, 05:33:21 PM
also restrictions on traffic in Israeli airspace???
Post by: travel agent on July 07, 2017, 11:25:28 AM
flight 312 from LTN is delayed from 16:40, will land DURING SHABATH at midnight.
Post by: AsherO on July 07, 2017, 02:30:34 PM
Post by: travel agent on July 12, 2017, 08:25:24 AM
Post by: travel agent on June 07, 2018, 05:44:52 PM
http://rotter.net/forum/scoops1/478809.shtml?utm_source=rotter.net&utm_medium=mivzakside (http://rotter.net/forum/scoops1/478809.shtml?utm_source=rotter.net&utm_medium=mivzakside)
Post by: travel agent on June 11, 2018, 07:23:15 AM
Post by: yandmk on June 11, 2018, 07:58:57 AM
for tonight BOS is cancelledThanks. I was wondering why suddenly all the space to NY for tomorrow is zeroed out. Yesterday most flights were wide open
Post by: Ergel on June 11, 2018, 06:39:10 PM
Post by: ExGingi on June 12, 2018, 02:09:13 AM
Why I refuse to fly El Al. I don't think the service or anything else is all that different. But the unreliability that I'll get to where I need to go when I need to get there. That I can't handleIMHO that and the "service" stem from the same root cause, which is their corporate DNA. If one is service and customer oriented, they will do everything to make the client happy and get them to their destination aa close as possible to what the customer expects.
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2018, 02:29:34 AM
IMHO that and the "service" stem from the same root cause, which is their corporate DNA. If one is service and customer oriented, they will do everything to make the client happy and get them to their destination aa close as possible to what the customer expects.Who says they didn't re-accommodate everyone? Between JFK and EWR, they can connect pretty much to everywhere they can connect through Boston (on better aircraft). Besides for the few who were actually flying to BOS as their destination (probably not more than 20% if I'm generous)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2018, 12:03:28 PM
Post by: travel agent on June 13, 2018, 05:58:09 PM
Post by: zow on June 13, 2018, 07:01:50 PM
BOS is cancelled againDo I understand correctly that they cancelled June 11 and June 13? Were these the ex-TLV or ex-BOS flights?
Any explanation?
Post by: travel agent on June 14, 2018, 06:24:35 AM
LY 27 to EWR is delayed to 8:00 !!
Post by: travel agent on June 14, 2018, 06:27:31 AM
Do I understand correctly that they cancelled June 11 and June 13? Were these the ex-TLV or ex-BOS flights?
Any explanation?
if the flight from TLV is cancelled, then the return from BOS is also cancelled.
Any explanation?
because its typical LY
Post by: zow on June 14, 2018, 06:32:50 AM
if the flight from TLV is cancelled, then the return from BOS is also cancelled.So they really cancelled four flights?!
because its typical LY
Presumably the load factor was so low that they just accommodated people on the flights to NYC. Not great for Boston folks.
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: a mirrer on June 14, 2018, 06:34:15 AM
LY 25 to EWR is delayed to 16:10looks like they want to make sure that there is no airline left by the time they stop paying commission
LY 27 to EWR is delayed to 8:00 !!
Post by: yandmk on June 14, 2018, 06:40:26 AM
looks like they want to make sure that there is no airline left by the time they stop paying commission
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2018, 08:45:47 AM
looks like they want to make sure that there is no airline left by the time they stop paying commissionShhh. The LY lovers here will stone you...
Post by: travel agent on June 14, 2018, 09:23:23 AM
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2018, 09:35:31 AM
Shhh. The LY lovers here will stone you...How many of those are the ones who will be losing commission?
Post by: yandmk on June 14, 2018, 09:36:43 AM
Shhh. The LY lovers here will stone you...Many of them here won't love LY anymore if their comms are cut....
Besides, LY under this new moron has little to do with the trying-to-improve El Al of the past few years. The name El Al is pretty much the only thing that's left of the airline. Won't be surprised to see him cancel some of the Dreamliner orders to cut costs....
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Post by: tavster on June 14, 2018, 04:03:51 PM
Post by: Ergel on June 14, 2018, 04:49:29 PM
Quote
Moreover, El Al regularly sets a schedule in which flights are not fully manned in advance. Placement staff telephone pilots every day, all day, to crew flights despite the fact that the flights were planned long since.That's crazy
In this way not only does El Al put many flights in question, but it also conducts its business wastefully, since a pilot assigned ad hoc to a flight that was not in his original schedule is paid more. Was this the reason for the cancellation of the flight to Boston and of the previous flights?
Post by: Something Fishy on June 14, 2018, 05:58:39 PM
looks like they want to make sure that there is no airline left by the time they stop paying commission
How many of those are the ones who will be losing commission?
Many of them here won't love LY anymore if their comms are cut....
What's the story with this? Is LY stopping to pay TA commissions?
Post by: US on June 14, 2018, 06:15:22 PM
What's the story with this? Is LY stopping to pay TA commissions?http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57332.msg1936754.msg#1936754 (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57332.msg1936754.msg#1936754)
Post by: Something Fishy on June 14, 2018, 06:17:40 PM
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57332.msg1936754.msg#1936754 (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57332.msg1936754.msg#1936754)
Thanks!
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2018, 08:00:46 AM
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-flight-cancellations-multiply-1001241475I'm only seeing 3 BOS cancellations. Are there 4?
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2018, 05:36:23 PM
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-flight-cancellations-multiply-1001241475
Quote
industrial quiet
Am I wrong in reading this as a literal translation of an Israeli/Hebrew term that isn't used outside of Israel?
IINM they mean labor relations truce.
Post by: tavster on June 16, 2018, 01:44:22 PM
Am I wrong in reading this as a literal translation of an Israeli/Hebrew term that isn't used outside of Israel?They meant to say "industrial peace", which is frequently used in collective agreements
IINM they mean labor relations truce.
Post by: travel agent on June 16, 2018, 03:03:46 PM
PEK is delayed to 9:00
JFK is delayed to 6:50
Post by: tavster on June 17, 2018, 04:34:52 AM
Post by: travel agent on June 17, 2018, 09:46:06 AM
also plenty of delays to Europe between 1 -3 hours
Post by: shapsam on June 17, 2018, 09:58:27 AM
Post by: ExGingi on June 17, 2018, 11:40:48 AM
What a mess.Why do people book with LY in the first place?
Post by: Hjay on June 17, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Why do people book with LY in the first place?
Because they are always CHEAPER
Post by: ExGingi on June 17, 2018, 12:00:01 PM
Because they are always CHEAPERHuh? Not based on what I hear.
Post by: zagguru on June 17, 2018, 12:02:14 PM
Why do people book with LY in the first place?
Convenience and the name
Post by: aygart on June 17, 2018, 12:36:53 PM
Why do people book with LY in the first place?Because they pay commission to TAs and have the most extensive direct schedule.
Post by: Hjay on June 17, 2018, 01:08:51 PM
Huh? Not based on what I hear.
I’ve flown many times over the past few years & elal is always at least $100-$200 cheaper.
Post by: Hjay on June 17, 2018, 01:12:01 PM
Because they pay commission to TAs and have the most extensive direct schedule.
My TA has no problem selling me other airlines but they’re always more expensive. Any ppl I speak to who consistently fly delta or united say they know its more expensive but they’re doing it for the status, upgrades etc.
Post by: chinagel on June 17, 2018, 01:13:54 PM
My TA has no problem selling me other airlines but they’re always more expensive. Any ppl I speak to who consistently fly delta or united say they know its more expensive but they’re doing it for the status, upgrades etc.depends when u fly. non peak seasons i find DL to be the same. UA about 50 dollars more.
Post by: Hjay on June 17, 2018, 01:15:48 PM
depends when u fly. non peak seasons i find DL to be the same. UA about 50 dollars more.
If you book in advance I’ve found that to be true, otherwise not really.
Post by: ExGingi on June 17, 2018, 01:34:06 PM
My TA has no problem selling me other airlines but they’re always more expensive. Any ppl I speak to who consistently fly delta or united say they know its more expensive but they’re doing it for the status, upgrades etc.I wasn't inquiring only about the TLV-NYC route, there are other routes in question. Also, with DL/UA one can often save a few $ by booking to a HC.
I've seen posts that say that TLV-AMM-BKK on RJ is shorter duration (and possibly cheaper ) than the LY TLV-BKK, with a more modern aircraft.
Post by: chinagel on June 17, 2018, 03:08:29 PM
I wasn't inquiring only about the TLV-NYC route, there are other routes in question. Also, with DL/UA one can often save a few $ by booking to a HC.you know of DL to TLV HC? dont think they exist
Post by: ExGingi on June 17, 2018, 04:09:43 PM
you know of DL to TLV HC? dont think they existNot available on a regular basis, but I've booked DL J using HC saving quite a few $ (on a RT).
Post by: US on June 17, 2018, 06:56:03 PM
Why do people book with LY in the first place?More availability on award tickets.
Post by: travel agent on June 18, 2018, 07:29:28 AM
thats in addition to plenty of delays to Europe between 1 -3 hours.
Post by: yandmk on June 18, 2018, 08:19:32 AM
Anyone flying or know someone flying on the flight should call El Al or their travel agent to get rebooked free of charge, unless they don't mind spending Shabbos in Athens....
Post by: yandmk on June 18, 2018, 08:52:03 AM
1:50pm flight to EWR this Thursday delayed to 5:35pm causing the return scheduled for 9pm to be delayed to 11:55pm (landing in IL 5:20pm Fri)1:30pm and 6pm is now completely booked (in Y). 10:30am still has quite a bit of space.
Anyone flying or know someone flying on the flight should call El Al or their travel agent to get rebooked free of charge, unless they don't mind spending Shabbos in Athens....
Post by: shimino1 on June 18, 2018, 11:12:06 AM
you know of DL to TLV HC? dont think they existThere are HC opportunities for every one of the direct flights to TLV!
Post by: chinagel on June 18, 2018, 03:00:04 PM
There are HC opportunities for every one of the direct flights to TLV!on a RT? care to name one?
Post by: ExGingi on June 18, 2018, 03:53:32 PM
on a RT? care to name one?Give me a break. These are so famous they might have been posted on DDMS advising everyone that luggage comes out on first port of US entry.
Post by: yandmk on June 18, 2018, 04:03:16 PM
Give me a break. These are so famous they might have been posted on DDMS advising everyone that luggage comes out on first port of US entry.On UA, and DL less often. There are barely any significant HC with LY AFAIK
Post by: ExGingi on June 18, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
On UA, and DL less often. There are barely any significant HC with LY AFAIK
Who's talking about HC with LY?
The whole point was that while LY might be cheaper than UA/DL, on UA/DL one can often use HC to save a few $.
I wasn't inquiring only about the TLV-NYC route, there are other routes in question. Also, with DL/UA one can often save a few $ by booking to a HC.
I've seen posts that say that TLV-AMM-BKK on RJ is shorter duration (and possibly cheaper ) than the LY TLV-BKK, with a more modern aircraft.
Post by: Hjay on June 18, 2018, 04:45:09 PM
Give me a break. These are so famous they might have been posted on DDMS advising everyone that luggage comes out on first port of US entry.
Seems like TLV - NYC is obvious, how about HC NYC - TLV?
Post by: chinagel on June 18, 2018, 04:51:47 PM
Give me a break. These are so famous they might have been posted on DDMS advising everyone that luggage comes out on first port of US entry.
Not available on a regular basis, but I've booked DL J using HC saving quite a few $ (on a RT).???
we were talking NYC-TLV on DL RT.
Post by: zagguru on June 18, 2018, 05:32:28 PM
Seems like TLV - NYC is obvious, how about HC NYC - TLV?
Even for only a 1-way ticket?
Post by: yandmk on June 18, 2018, 05:33:37 PM
Who's talking about HC with LY?
There are HC opportunities for every one of the direct flights to TLV!
Post by: travel agent on June 21, 2018, 01:45:05 PM
Post by: travel agent on June 21, 2018, 04:01:48 PM
KBP didn't left yet, scheduled 18:30
tomorrow
KBP delayed to 8:30
WAW delayed to 7:15
BCN delayed 4.5 hours to 13:30
Post by: PPM on June 22, 2018, 02:26:21 AM
LTN today is cancelled
KBP didn't left yet, scheduled 18:30
tomorrow
KBP delayed to 8:30
WAW delayed to 7:15
BCN delayed 4.5 hours to 13:30
KBP was cancelled.
What is compensation?
Post by: travel agent on June 22, 2018, 07:06:54 AM
Post by: travel agent on June 27, 2018, 07:40:09 AM
Post by: a mirrer on June 27, 2018, 07:45:38 AM
flight 11 to JFK is cancelledand flight 2 from jfk
Post by: Geshmak25 on June 27, 2018, 07:50:16 AM
flight 11 to JFK is cancelledMy parents were on this flight. No delay, just a cancellation and put on a flight 1.5 days later. Any compensation?
Post by: shapsam on June 27, 2018, 08:43:17 AM
My parents were on this flight. No delay, just a cancellation and put on a flight 1.5 days later. Any compensation?3080 ILS
Post by: Geshmak25 on June 27, 2018, 08:45:03 AM
3080 ILSAnd how do they go about requesting that compensation?
Post by: Geshmak25 on June 27, 2018, 02:12:45 PM
And how do they go about requesting that compensation?Thanks Dan ;)
Post by: helpyouamdme on June 27, 2018, 02:26:15 PM
flight 11 to JFK is cancelledBrother in law and sister on that flight
Post by: Dan on June 27, 2018, 02:51:05 PM
Showing cancelled on flightaware: https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KJFK&destination=LLBG
But not anywhere else.
Post by: Baglach on June 27, 2018, 02:55:14 PM
What's with LY8?Not cancelled it's showing that way bcs inbound plane was cancelled (LY11) but they moved LY2 to LY8
Showing cancelled on flightaware: https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KJFK&destination=LLBG
But not anywhere else.
Post by: mochjas on June 27, 2018, 04:52:48 PM
Post by: ExGingi on June 27, 2018, 05:00:44 PM
Are next weeks flights in danger of getting cancelled?
Can anyone give a negative answer to such a question given that we're talking about LY?
Post by: travel agent on June 27, 2018, 06:06:29 PM
Post by: travel agent on June 27, 2018, 06:07:18 PM
Are next weeks flights in danger of getting cancelled?
why not?
Post by: mochjas on June 27, 2018, 06:11:26 PM
why not?what is the reason for these cancellations?
Post by: travel agent on June 27, 2018, 06:19:12 PM
Post by: avadah on June 27, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
Post by: a mirrer on June 28, 2018, 08:33:16 AM
So is this really the same story as last year where the pilots are holding out for more money?they have been in mediation since then http://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-crisis-deepens-as-cancellations-continue-1001243488
Post by: mgarfin on June 28, 2018, 10:37:02 AM
בנוסף, העובדה שטייסים נמצאים בהסבות למטוסי הדרימליינר בלונדון צמצמה גם היא את כמות הסגל שיכול להטיס נוסעים בקווים השונים.
Post by: travel agent on June 28, 2018, 03:58:23 PM
BCN is delayed 5.5 hours
BUD is delayed 3 hours
Post by: travel agent on June 28, 2018, 06:06:58 PM
if anyone is booked on the return to TLV, it will now arrive in TLV not before 17:50
Post by: travel agent on June 29, 2018, 08:51:26 AM
another story with frum people arriving on shabbos will happen?
edit: arriving final at 7:52, just after sunset!!
Post by: SearchGuy on June 29, 2018, 11:43:29 AM
Post by: Geshmak25 on July 01, 2018, 01:05:14 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/airfare-deals/israel-flights/el-al-flight-israel-delayed-cancelled-heres-claim-compensation/
Post by: Dan on July 01, 2018, 01:08:33 PM
Dan, my parents are trying to fill out the el al contact form that you linked and apparently its not allowing USA (or any variation) to be entered for country of residence. Any advice?Is the field mandatory?
https://www.dansdeals.com/airfare-deals/israel-flights/el-al-flight-israel-delayed-cancelled-heres-claim-compensation/
Post by: Geshmak25 on July 01, 2018, 01:44:08 PM
Is the field mandatory?Good call, not mandatory. Thanks.
Post by: tavster on July 04, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
Post by: Baglach on July 18, 2018, 01:31:54 PM
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-cancellations-continue-1001246621
Post by: yandmk on July 18, 2018, 01:50:42 PM
Post by: travel agent on July 30, 2018, 05:41:15 PM
Post by: ExGingi on October 04, 2018, 10:06:33 PM
Don't have an English source (yet). Essentially Israeli Airport Authority is publicly rebuking ELAL for blaming them for operational delays.
Post by: travel agent on October 08, 2018, 09:34:44 AM
Post by: travel agent on October 11, 2018, 05:25:34 PM
MIA is delayed to 5:00
BCN is delayed to 13:15!!
JNB is delayed to 6:30
Post by: yandmk on October 11, 2018, 05:33:36 PM
Post by: shapsam on October 11, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
Interesting. El Al raised all the base fares by $30 from yesterday until today (even for unticketed reservations on hold). Last time they did this greedy move, there was also a series of cancellations that followed shortly afterwards. Well deserved, El Al. Already lost any potential gain from the price hike....Any TA should be able to get the old price back.
Post by: Sammy82 on October 11, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
Interesting. El Al raised all the base fares by $30 from yesterday until today (even for unticketed reservations on hold). Last time they did this greedy move, there was also a series of cancellations that followed shortly afterwards. Well deserved, El Al. Already lost any potential gain from the price hike....U sure? I checked a ticket I bought for the week before Thanksgiving and it's still the same price
Post by: tavster on October 29, 2018, 02:57:27 AM
Israel’s EL Al Airline Signs Efficiency Plan With Pilots
(Bloomberg) -- Agreement includes measures to more efficiently staff flights, cancel old compensation packages in exchange for salary increases, and new rules to avoid staff shortages and ensure proper rest times, according to Tel Aviv bourse filing.
Post by: travel agent on October 30, 2018, 01:44:35 PM
EWR is delayed 7 hours to 8:05
JFK #7 is delayed 4 hours to 13:20
Post by: travel agent on November 16, 2018, 07:16:01 AM
Post by: ExGingi on November 16, 2018, 07:20:33 AM
those who are flying next week with LY should be prepared to major delays, specially on Motzei Shabbos, since 2 planes are stuck in Europe.Huh?
What makes you think that those planes won't land in TLV on Shabbos, after unloading passengers in ATH and FCO?
Post by: Yehudaa on November 16, 2018, 07:22:52 AM
those who are flying next week with LY should be prepared to major delays, specially on Motzei Shabbos, since 2 planes are stuck in Europe.I'm not sure they'll be stuck in Europe. When this happened in June they flew the plane back to TLV on shabbos with just crew and no passengers. They just can't fly passengers on shabbos. See: https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/heres-el-al-gets-around-shabbos-flight-restrictions/
Post by: travel agent on November 16, 2018, 07:29:20 AM
Huh?
What makes you think that those planes won't land in TLV on Shabbos, after unloading passengers in ATH and FCO?
if so they will have to send 2 planes to pick up the pax, which will only increase the delays, & is the crew still under the limit to continue to TLV?
Post by: ExGingi on November 16, 2018, 07:54:38 AM
if so they will have to send 2 planes to pick up the pax, which will only increase the delays, & is the crew still under the limit to continue to TLV?You are speculating, rather than basing your opinion on historical and current facts.
Post by: tavster on November 16, 2018, 08:05:04 AM