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DansDeals Forum => Politics => Topic started by: shulem92 on January 20, 2017, 11:17:21 AM

Title: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shulem92 on January 20, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Being that its Friday...I wanted to know if anyone has any comments on Jared kushners "heter" to go in a car tonight...
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Freddie on January 20, 2017, 11:20:59 AM

I don't care who my views align with, even though I'm no fan of Obama or the ACLU.
The problem with tapping phones and intercepting emails and all communications isn't just about you and me. Do you believe that reporters -who are integral to keeping America free- should be illegally spied on? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-rare-peek-into-a-justice-department-leak-probe/2013/05/19/0bc473de-be5e-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Do you think activists like MLK would have been so successful if the government was tapping into all his communications?

Regarding Manning, once again, I don't think he should have leaked everything, putting people in risky positions for no reason. But whatever good info he shared, who did he risk? Soldiers that already promised to defend the freedom of the country even if it means dying? Spies that have promised the same? I may even argue, that it's the government, not the whistleblower that puts these people at risk. So you don't want enemies to know that soldiers or something secret is situated at point XYZ? How about not committing war crimes at XYZ? By committing war crimes they are essentially giving witnesses the moral right of reporting those crimes and proving it with evidence.

Ummm, they were! J. Edgar Hoover had MLK's phones all tapped. He kept a huge file on him and on all civil rights leaders. Some of it (only like a few thousand pages) is declassified and online.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Menachem613 on January 20, 2017, 12:05:06 PM
Being that its Friday...I wanted to know if anyone has any comments on Jared kushners "heter" to go in a car tonight...

Just leave him alone.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 20, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
Being that its Friday...I wanted to know if anyone has any comments on Jared kushners "heter" to go in a car tonight...
Is it true?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: CS1 on January 20, 2017, 12:12:15 PM
Is it true?

probably not true. They may stay over the White House for the weekend. The parade will probably be finished before 5pm.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: dealfinder85 on January 20, 2017, 12:15:11 PM
Just leave him alone.
+1000
do you seriously have nothing better to do than go hunting for some lashon hara?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 20, 2017, 12:31:50 PM
Being that its Friday...I wanted to know if anyone has any comments on Jared kushners "heter" to go in a car tonight...

Never happened.

The article was written based on speculation of someone who has no reason to have inside knowledge on a radio interview. The author of the article didn't even get an on the record comment from the person he based his story on.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: ExGingi on January 20, 2017, 12:34:37 PM
Is it true?
Are you kidding? You're a real n00b. You need to brush up before your trip. IINM I've written somewhere around here previously that at least 90% of what's published by Israeli press is totally FAKE.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 20, 2017, 12:37:21 PM
Are you kidding? You're a real n00b. You need to brush up before your trip. IINM I've written somewhere around here previously that at least 90% of what's published by Israeli press is totally FAKE.
So it can't be part of the 10%?  :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Boruch999 on January 21, 2017, 01:35:25 PM
Who said that a Jew can eat lobster?

I fully understand and just having some fun. I said before I have to meet her Rabbi. If he will give me an exemption to be able to eat lobster I would sign up tomorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 21, 2017, 06:54:20 PM

He is the Jew you were referring to?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 07:05:07 PM
Are you kidding? You're a real n00b. You need to brush up before your trip. IINM I've written somewhere around here previously that at least 90% of what's published by Israeli press is totally FAKE.
So it can't be part of the 10%?  :)
Looks like the 10% was correct.  :P
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/us/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-sabbath.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article&_r=0

Can someone hook me up with their Rabbi? I am ready to take the plunge.  :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 07:34:53 PM
Looks like the 10% was correct. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/us/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-sabbath.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article&_r=0

Can someone hook me up with their Rabbi? I am ready to take the plunge.  :)
You'd be as Jewish as her.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: yuneeq on January 21, 2017, 07:35:21 PM
You'd be as Jewish as her.

Maybe he already is
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 07:40:02 PM
You'd be as Jewish as her.
I thought you were required to accept converts as one of your own, no?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 21, 2017, 08:07:27 PM
I thought you were required to accept converts as one of your own, no?
That does not include accepting an invalid conversation. I am totally unfair with her conversation and have no opinion on it one way or the other, but if it is invalid it is invalid.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Dan on January 21, 2017, 08:08:46 PM
I thought you were required to accept converts as one of your own, no?
Of course, but only if they accept the 613 commandments.
Is it Friday already?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 08:13:04 PM
Of course, but only if they accept the 613 commandments.
Is it Friday already?
I tried on Friday.  :)
Accepting all 613 commandments and not following them 100% of the time is not same, correct? By that I mean nobody is perfect.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Dan on January 21, 2017, 08:14:03 PM
I tried on Friday.  :)
Accepting all 613 commandments and not following them 100% of the time is not same, correct? By that I mean nobody is perfect.
The question is did you actually intend to accept the 613 at the time of the conversion?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 08:16:01 PM
That does not include accepting an invalid conversation. I am totally unfair with her conversation and have no opinion on it one way or the other, but if it is invalid it is invalid.
Is someone claiming it was invalid? How about her husband. It seems they are following the same Rabbis advice. Does that make her husband invalid?  :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: grodnoking on January 21, 2017, 08:17:35 PM
Is someone claiming it was invalid? How about her husband. It seems they are following the same Rabbis advice. Does that make her husband invalid?  :)
Born a Jew, always a Jew.
So he's Jewish even if he disregards all 613.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 08:19:19 PM
The question is did you actually intend to accept the 613 at the time of the conversion?
Is a person that converts required to fully understand all 613 commandments? Just watching the discussion about some of these things that would seem impossible. Also if a Rabbi gives her permission to do certain things over Shabbos that wouldn't be a violation would it?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 08:19:48 PM
Born a Jew, always a Jew.
So he's Jewish even if he disregards all 613.
I set myself up for that.  :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: grodnoking on January 21, 2017, 08:22:29 PM


Also if a Rabbi gives her permission to do certain things over Shabbos that wouldn't be a violation would it?
A rabbi cannot give permission to do things that the Torah does not allow unless he has a valid reason.

Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 08:34:53 PM
I thought you were required to accept converts as one of your own, no?
I just said you'd be as Jewish as she is if you do what she did.

Yes I am obligated to love and accept converts. I am also obligated to hate those who trample g-ds words.

Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 08:52:03 PM
I am also obligated to hate those who trample g-ds words.
Didn't know that.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aro123 on January 21, 2017, 09:15:05 PM
And if shes not a convert she didn't trample on g-ds words. So we are giving her benefit of the doubt.........however practically everyone accepts her as a legitimate convert
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 21, 2017, 09:23:02 PM
Looks like the 10% was correct.  :P
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/us/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-sabbath.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article&_r=0

Can someone hook me up with their Rabbi? I am ready to take the plunge.  :)

http://www.uscj.org

I'm still sceptical about this story. Until I see a written tshuva, or an on the record comment in assuming the reporters are getting it wrong.

For example, I can understand if they got a heter to go (walk) to the ball, even though they will be causing the security guards to follow them in a car.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: grodnoking on January 21, 2017, 09:30:28 PM
And for all you know by them saying that the rabbi give them a heter to go in a car maybe it means  that the driver was opening the door for them and he did anything that is prohibited on Shabbos
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 21, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
I think that JTZ's point is that if she is following the ruling of her rabbi it dues not show that her acceptance of mitzvos was deficient even if his ruling was incorrect.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 21, 2017, 09:32:49 PM
I think that JTZ's point is that if she is following the ruling of her rabbi it dues not show that her acceptance of mitzvos was deficient even if his ruling was incorrect.

This is a very good point.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 21, 2017, 09:34:20 PM
And for all you know by them saying that the rabbi give them a heter to go in a car maybe it means  that the driver was opening the door for them and he did anything that is prohibited on Shabbos

That's a given, and still unlikely.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 21, 2017, 09:37:01 PM
Let's get this clear, we are dealing with amira l'akum, not a d'orayso.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 09:37:26 PM
And if shes not a convert she didn't trample on g-ds words. So we are giving her benefit of the doubt.........however practically everyone accepts her as a legitimate convert
whos that
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aro123 on January 21, 2017, 09:44:05 PM
whos that
Find me someone mainstream who will say that R hershel Schacters geirus is not legitimate bidieved
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 09:48:40 PM
Find me someone mainstream who will say that R hershel Schacters geirus is not legitimate bidieved
i didnt say it isnt all im asking is who said its good? i didnt even know he was the one who did it, where did u get that from?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Menachem613 on January 21, 2017, 10:09:34 PM
Let's get this clear, we are dealing with amira l'akum, not a d'orayso.

And furthermore it's possible he/she didn't even ask but was told so there was no Amira.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 10:18:09 PM
Didn't know that.
. רמב"ם הלכות אבל פרק א' הלכה י 

כל הפורשין  מדרכי  צבור והם האנשים שפרקו עול המצות מעל צוארן ואין נכללין בכלל ישראל בעשיית  המצות ובכבוד המועדות וישיבת בתי כנסיות ובתי מדרשות אלא הרי הן כבני חורין לעצמן [כשאר  האומות] וכן האפיקורוסין [והמומרים] והמוסרין כל אלו אין מתאבלין עליהן, אלא אחיהם ושאר  קרוביהם לובשין לבנים ומתעטפים לבנים ואוכלים ושותים ושמחים שהרי אבדו שונאיו של הקב"ה,  ועליהם הכתוב אומר הלא משנאיך ה' אשנא. 

Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: ExGingi on January 21, 2017, 10:26:43 PM
Who will be the first to post a TR which includes this (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-19/hoshinoya-tokyo-review-luxury-urban-ryokan-and-onsen)? And what's the best way to book? Chase UR?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 10:27:38 PM
And furthermore it's possible he/she didn't even ask but was told so there was no Amira.
It is also forbidden to have a non Jew do melachos for you, even without amirah.

Regardless, there were plenty of other issurim involved besides the car.

I'm just not even sure why we have to be splitting hairs over which halacha was violated or not. The fact is that Jared and Ivanka are culturally orthodox to a certain extent. I don't believe they publicly have ever claimed to keep halacha.
They obviously do participate in Shabbat and some degree of kosher. But that's about it.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 10:32:16 PM
It is also forbidden to have a non Jew do melachos for you, even without amirah.

Regardless, there were plenty of other issurim involved besides the car.

I'm just not even sure why we have to be splitting hairs over which halacha was violated or not. The fact is that Jared and Ivanka are culturally orthodox to a certain extent. I don't believe they publicly have ever claimed to keep halacha.
They obviously do participate in Shabbat and some degree of kosher. But that's about it.
you dont have to go that far, he dated her before she ever "converted".
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Eliyohu on January 21, 2017, 10:33:46 PM
i didnt say it isnt all im asking is who said its good? i didnt even know he was the one who did it, where did u get that from?
Paging @Tim T we went through this once and found documentation of her Geirus which was done by R Herschel Shacter, Chatzhel Lookstien (who holds you don't need kabulas mitzvos) and a chasidshe rav from monsey but don't recall his name of hand. Either way it was definitely a good Geirus...

Besides that if she got a heter that's it Noone is forcing you to accept her Ravs psak and any speculation of her not really getting one etc is regular lashon hara/motsie shem ra... even if you think she's a mumar...

It's a whole different discussion of what the psak is based on... and you deff don't know the security situation to speculate what they could have or couldn't have done...
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 10:38:21 PM
Paging @Tim T we went through this once and found documentation of her Geirus which was done by R Herschel Shacter, Chatzhel Lookstien (who holds you don't need kabulas mitzvos) and a chasidshe rav from monsey but don't recall his name of hand. Either way it was definitely a good Geirus...
chatzkel lookstein is definitely out of the mainstream as you yourself said. not sure why that means its definitely good
Besides that if she got a heter that's it Noone is forcing you to accept her Ravs psak and any speculation of her not really getting one etc is regular lashon hara/motsie shem ra... even if you think she's a mumar...

if i think shes a mumar theres no issur lashon hara.
 
It's a whole different discussion of what the psak is based on... and you deff don't know the security situation to speculate what they could have or couldn't have done...

i know they didnt have to go into a situation where they would have to be mechalel shabbos
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: elit on January 21, 2017, 10:38:27 PM
I just said you'd be as Jewish as she is if you do what she did.

Yes I am obligated to love and accept converts. I am also obligated to hate those who trample g-ds words.

Didn't know that.
Bc it ain't true. At least in the unequivocal manner that cbc presented it as
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 10:54:05 PM
Bc it ain't true. At least in the unequivocal manner that cbc presented it as
It's definitely unequivocally true. We can discuss the definition of trample though.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: elit on January 21, 2017, 10:54:52 PM
It's definitely unequivocally true. We can discuss the definition of trample though.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: TimT on January 21, 2017, 10:58:58 PM
Paging @Tim T we went through this once and found documentation of her Geirus which was done by R Herschel Shacter, Chatzhel Lookstien (who holds you don't need kabulas mitzvos) and a chasidshe rav from monsey but don't recall his name of hand. Either way it was definitely a good Geirus...

Besides that if she got a heter that's it Noone is forcing you to accept her Ravs psak and any speculation of her not really getting one etc is regular lashon hara/motsie shem ra... even if you think she's a mumar...

It's a whole different discussion of what the psak is based on... and you deff don't know the security situation to speculate what they could have or couldn't have done...
Was first discussed here (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=8007.0) to some extent. :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: dmdmoses46 on January 21, 2017, 11:00:46 PM
There is no way in the world it's a good geirus a gerus needs kabolos mitzvahs and she never covered her her hair which if she never did is enough to disable a geirus she herself said in an interview that she is pretty observent which means there is definitely other stuff she never did and if it's not a good geirus she is still a goy and if she keeps shabbos she would be mechuv missah so it's disgusting how everyone is saying how it's such a nice thing that she is keeping shabbos and getting all bent out of shape when she doesn't she is regular goy and it's much better when she doesn't
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Eliyohu on January 21, 2017, 11:01:03 PM
Was first discussed here (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=8007.0) to some extent. :)
I think theres something More recent and in greater detail...
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 11:01:48 PM
Was first discussed here (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=8007.0) to some extent. :)
according to the maskana there it was solely lookstein
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 11:02:47 PM
Exactly.
Just for the record, I don't necessarily think it fully applies to Jared.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 21, 2017, 11:04:17 PM
Wow have you all missed the original point.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: TimT on January 21, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
I think theres something More recent and in greater detail...
I know
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57647.msg1443847#msg1443847
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Eliyohu on January 21, 2017, 11:08:32 PM


chatzkel lookstein is definitely out of the mainstream as you yourself said. not sure why that means its definitely good

The other 2 rabonims geirus are definitely good I mentioned him because he happened to be part of it not that it makes it good

i know they didnt have to go into a situation where they would have to be mechalel shabbos

Intresting that you know the inner workings of the trump family, American politics, the secret service and they're personal situation where they had to be and when.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 11:20:41 PM

The other 2 rabonims geirus are definitely good I mentioned him because he happened to be part of it not that it makes it good

he puts a stink on the whole thing. she may be jewish but i dont see it as certain especially when you consider she currently doesnt keep all the mitzvos
Intresting that you know the inner workings of the trump family, American politics, the secret service and they're personal situation where they had to be and when.
i dont see why you would think she had to go to anything that would cause her to be mechalel shabbos. technically she could have sat out the whole thing
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aro123 on January 21, 2017, 11:38:23 PM
he puts a stink on the whole thing. she may be jewish but i dont see it as certain especially when you consider she currently doesnt keep all the mitzvosi dont see why you would think she had to go to anything that would cause her to be mechalel shabbos. technically she could have sat out the whole thing
And you know for certain that there was no reason in the world that there was enough of a need for amirah laakum. I could think of a million reasons that it could be considered enough of a need. (ie Just imagine that bibi decided to bomb iran after 8 years of waiting and wanted jared to be there to pacify trump.) Just cuz you don't know doesn't mean there's no reason. And for amirah laakum or shvus dishvus if one akum told the next akum u dont need to dream up any crazy scenarios
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 11:46:12 PM



The other 2 rabonims geirus are definitely good I mentioned him because he happened to be part of it not that it makes it good


Geirus needs a bridge din of 3, so not sure what you mean by 2?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 11:49:47 PM
And you know for certain that there was no reason in the world that there was enough of a need for amirah laakum. I could think of a million reasons that it could be considered enough of a need. (ie Just imagine that bibi decided to bomb iran after 8 years of waiting and wanted jared to be there to pacify trump.) Just cuz you don't know doesn't mean there's no reason. And for amirah laakum or shvus dishvus if one akum told the next akum u dont need to dream up any crazy scenarios
thats a very far stretch for a heter...

Geirus needs a bridge din of 3, so not sure what you mean by 2?
+1
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aro123 on January 21, 2017, 11:49:59 PM

Geirus needs a bridge din of 3, so not sure what you mean by 2?
R schacter probably didn't realize that when he did the geirus. You should let him know....(he probably knows about Haskell more than you also)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aro123 on January 21, 2017, 11:51:38 PM
thats a very far stretch for a heter...+1
Its only a far stretch cuz you and me have no clue what is going on behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 21, 2017, 11:51:46 PM
Tell that to the guy who said two is enough..
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: mgarfin on January 21, 2017, 11:52:39 PM
http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/4819130
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 21, 2017, 11:57:29 PM
Its only a far stretch cuz you and me have no clue what is going on behind the scenes.
you gave a specific scenario which would not be a heter, you can say there were other reasons... there is no reason to believe there was pikuach nefesh if she would not have attended the ceremonies after shkia
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aro123 on January 22, 2017, 12:06:18 AM
you gave a specific scenario which would not be a heter, you can say there were other reasons... there is no reason to believe there was pikuach nefesh if she would not have attended the ceremonies after shkia
You don't need pikuach nefesh for amirah lakum
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 12:16:54 AM
You don't need pikuach nefesh for amirah lakum
if you believe the report that she got a heter the reasoning was pikuach nefesh. there was no mention of amira lakum
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: coralsnake on January 22, 2017, 12:26:12 AM
he puts a stink on the whole thing. she may be jewish but i dont see it as certain especially when you consider she currently doesnt keep all the mitzvos
Nobody keeps all the mitzvos
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 12:30:46 AM
Nobody keeps all the mitzvos
im referring to ones that are known to be assur
ETA: tznius or s/t like this http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57647.msg1444631#msg1444631
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
"Carter doesn't get health insurance because you have to work for the federal government for five years to qualify."

Seriously?
Yes.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Emkay on January 22, 2017, 09:00:31 AM


There is no way in the world it's a good geirus a gerus needs kabolos mitzvahs and she never covered her her hair which if she never did is enough to disable a geirus she herself said in an interview that she is pretty observent which means there is definitely other stuff she never did and if it's not a good geirus she is still a goy and if she keeps shabbos she would be mechuv missah so it's disgusting how everyone is saying how it's such a nice thing that she is keeping shabbos and getting all bent out of shape when she doesn't she is regular goy and it's much better when she doesn't
Grammer would help your gibberish.
It would likely still be gibberish, but it will at least be readable gibberish.

Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: ExGingi on January 22, 2017, 09:06:33 AM
Grammer would help your gibberish.
It would likely still be gibberish, but it will at least be readable gibberish.
;)

You actually want him to make גראמען of of that?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Eliyohu on January 22, 2017, 09:29:43 AM

Geirus needs a bridge din of 3, so not sure what you mean by 2?

Tell that to the guy who said two is enough..
Never said you need 2, I'm not pretending to know Hilchos Geirus etc but who says Haskel Lookstein is not a kosher Dayan for this purpose all I said was the fact that Herschel Shacter was on the bais din is good enough for me to say the geirus was good regardless and I'm sure he didnt not lower his standards to haskell's

you gave a specific scenario which would not be a heter, you can say there were other reasons... there is no reason to believe there was pikuach nefesh if she would not have attended the ceremonies after shkia

For this scenario it's not all that difficult to be dan lkaf zchus... I'm not sure why you're so bent on that she's not jewish and that she definitely had no heter if she is... unless you have personal reasons s like that it's more convenient to actually be muttar to speak loshon hara about her
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 09:32:32 AM
Can someone answer a simple question. Did they (not just her) have some type of a special exemption?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Boruch999 on January 22, 2017, 09:40:00 AM
Can someone answer a simple question. Did they (not just her) have some type of a special exemption?

It's not likely any one here can confirm that with any degree of accuracy.  Nevertheless, many here are sufficiantly versed in halacha to determine that there was not likely suffucient justification in this case for any exemption.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 22, 2017, 09:41:31 AM
Can someone answer a simple question. Did they (not just her) have some type of a special exemption?
No, it was applying a concept on very solid ground in a way it may never have been intended. Even that depends on exactly what the ruling was.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
Never said you need 2, I'm not pretending to know Hilchos Geirus etc but who says Haskel Lookstein is not a kosher Dayan for this purpose all I said was the fact that Herschel Shacter was on the bais din is good enough for me to say the geirus was good regardless and I'm sure he didnt not lower his standards to haskell's

the guy doesnt meet the israeli rabbinate standards... i wouldnt be so convinced.

For this scenario it's not all that difficult to be dan lkaf zchus... I'm not sure why you're so bent on that she's not jewish and that she definitely had no heter if she is... unless you have personal reasons s like that it's more convenient to actually be muttar to speak loshon hara about her

i dont really care if shes jewish.. im not exactly looking to do a shidduch with her, just saying im not convinced she is. as far as l"h i dont consider her frum even if she is jewish so it wouldnt be a problem regardless.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 09:48:50 AM
Nevertheless, many here are sufficiantly versed in halacha to determine that there was not likely suffucient justification in this case for any exemption.
Anyone with any common sense knows you have better justification for the kosher switch then this if it is true.  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Emkay on January 22, 2017, 09:49:49 AM


the guy doesnt meet the israeli rabbinate standards... i wouldnt be so convinced.
Do you know anything about their standards? ....I wouldnt be so convinced.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Boruch999 on January 22, 2017, 09:50:24 AM
Anyone with any common sense knows you have better justification for the kosher switch then this if it is true.  ;)
It's not likely any one here can confirm that with any degree of accuracy.  Nevertheless, many here are sufficiantly versed in halacha to determine that there was not likely suffucient justification in this case for any exemption.

I see you are one of them  :)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 09:53:49 AM
Do you know anything about their standards? ....I wouldnt be so convinced.
they take just about anyone in the spectrum of orthodoxy. plus, for him to say the guy is definitely good bec. of RHS doesnt make sense when you clearly see there are rabbonim that think his geirus isnt good
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: elit on January 22, 2017, 09:54:41 AM
the guy doesnt meet the israeli rabbinate standards... i wouldnt be so convinced.i dont really care if shes jewish.. im not exactly looking to do a shidduch with her, just saying im not convinced she is. as far as l"h i dont consider her frum even if she is jewish so it wouldnt be a problem regardless.
Learn seder chofetz chaim ever??
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 09:58:12 AM
Learn seder chofetz chaim ever??
a couple times
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 22, 2017, 09:58:22 AM
Anyone with any common sense knows you have better justification for the kosher switch then this if it is true.  ;)
They are very different in that she presumably could have not done anything herself. The question would only be having things done for her by a non Jew.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
I see you are one of them  :)
No, I am the common sense one.  ;)
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: ExGingi on January 22, 2017, 10:02:22 AM
Maybe it's time for the mods to prune this entire discussion out of here, and put it in it's own thread, possibly titled "How orthodox/observant is Jared Kushner, and is Ivanka Jewish? - לשון הרע אלערט"
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Emkay on January 22, 2017, 10:03:00 AM
they take just about anyone in the spectrum of orthodoxy. plus, for him to say the guy is definitely good bec. of RHS doesnt make sense when you clearly see there are rabbonim that think his geirus isnt good
A "no" would've been easier.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 10:04:30 AM
A "no" would've been easier.
could be. you cant argue the second point
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Eliyohu on January 22, 2017, 10:04:31 AM


i dont really care if shes jewish.. im not exactly looking to do a shidduch with her, just saying im not convinced she is. as far as l"h i dont consider her frum even if she is jewish so it wouldnt be a problem regardless.

I wouldn't bet my olam habah (and getting all her aveiros?) on this one... just not worth it

Source that RHS geirus not accepted by rabbinate, mby you're confusing Lookstien s?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 10:05:19 AM

I wouldn't bet my olam habah (and getting all her aveiros?) on this one... just not worth it

Source that RHS geirus not accepted by rabbinate, mby you're confusing Lookstien s?
i was referring to lookstein
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Super Speed on January 22, 2017, 10:05:31 AM


Intresting that you know the inner workings of the trump family, American politics, the secret service and they're personal situation where they had to be and when.

None of that matters if there is a problem of Chillul Shabbos. I'm not getting involved if there is or if there isn't but your response didn't make sense.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Emkay on January 22, 2017, 10:05:37 AM



 mby you're confusing Lookstien s?
He def is accepted.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Eliyohu on January 22, 2017, 10:13:00 AM

None of that matters if there is a problem of Chillul Shabbos. I'm not getting involved if there is or if there isn't but your response didn't make sense.
My point is that being that Noone here knows the exact details or even vague details you can't say if there's a makom for a heter of chillul shabbos or not. There are many factors that we don't know which would matter for a heter and was just bringing up some of the possibilities
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: chinagel on January 22, 2017, 10:43:53 AM
ill stop. i dont think im wrong just like everyone else... but the l"h makes it not worth it, on that ur right.
just to be clear the original criticism was on the heter not on them following it
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 10:45:28 AM
just to be clear the original criticism question was on the heter not on them following it
FTFY
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 22, 2017, 10:45:54 AM

None of that matters if there is a problem of Chillul Shabbos. I'm not getting involved if there is or if there isn't but your response didn't make sense.
how are you considering her following a ruling of her LOR to show that it is invalid even if the ruling is misguided?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 22, 2017, 11:25:01 AM
http://www.snopes.com/wsj-different-trump-headlines/
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 22, 2017, 03:12:15 PM
i was referring to lookstein

Until recently the Rabbanut decided whether to approve each Geirus on a case by case basis (regardless of which Rabbi did the conversion). They recently announced that they would change that, and in that statment explicitly said that Ivanka would be considered Jewish.

http://www.jta.org/2016/12/07/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israels-chief-rabbinate-promises-to-establish-conversion-standards-and-count-ivanka-trump-as-jewish
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: AsherO on January 22, 2017, 03:22:09 PM
I suspect JTZ is considering marrying his grandkids to a Kushner kid and wants to make sure they're halachically catholic :D
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 22, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
I suspect JTZ is considering marrying his grandkids to a Kushner kid and wants to make sure they're halachically catholic :D

Her parents got divorced, does that disqualify her?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: mgarfin on January 22, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/515545/leave-jared-and-ivanka-alone.html
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 04:35:42 PM
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/515545/leave-jared-and-ivanka-alone.html
Right out of the Catholic playbook (dispensation).

The media reported that they received Rabbinic dispensation for the former.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Yammer on January 22, 2017, 04:39:05 PM
"Ivanka and Jared were spotted snapping photos Saturday morning on the Truman Balcony"


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/trumps-children-revel-24-hours-white-house-44957165
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: mgarfin on January 22, 2017, 04:43:21 PM
"Ivanka and Jared were spotted snapping photos Saturday morning on the Truman Balcony"


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/trumps-children-revel-24-hours-white-house-44957165

This is trump WH #falsemedia
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: aygart on January 22, 2017, 05:07:48 PM
"Ivanka and Jared were spotted snapping photos Saturday morning on the Truman Balcony"


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/trumps-children-revel-24-hours-white-house-44957165
So they didn't ride home?
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Boruch999 on January 22, 2017, 05:18:55 PM
So they didn't ride home?

Home and then back for shaleshudes :o Oy Vey!!
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Yammer on January 22, 2017, 05:21:25 PM
This is trump WH #falsemedia
Really!?

Why?
So they didn't ride home?
Don't know. But if this is true then...
Home and then back for shaleshudes :o Oy Vey!!
Lol. Had they closed the lights nobody would have seen....
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: elit on January 22, 2017, 05:42:25 PM
a couple times
Can u please let me know which sinan discusses the heterogeneous of saying loss on hara if ur not doing a shidduch with them or if their not frum. Would love to check it out
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Boruch999 on January 22, 2017, 05:43:19 PM
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/515545/leave-jared-and-ivanka-alone.html
Comment #10   :o
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: zh cohen on January 22, 2017, 05:43:28 PM
Had they closed the lights nobody would have seen....

They should have used the shabbos switch. Or maybe they took the pictures on a phone that was using the shabbos app...
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: JTZ on January 22, 2017, 06:05:18 PM
Comment #10   :o
This: Ivanka is beautiful
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: Freddie on January 22, 2017, 06:08:18 PM
Comment #10   :o

Someone's bubbe posted that.
Title: Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
Post by: skyguy918 on January 23, 2017, 10:02:26 AM
Until recently the Rabbanut decided whether to approve each Geirus on a case by case basis (regardless of which Rabbi did the conversion). They recently announced that they would change that, and in that statment explicitly said that Ivanka would be considered Jewish.

http://www.jta.org/2016/12/07/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israels-chief-rabbinate-promises-to-establish-conversion-standards-and-count-ivanka-trump-as-jewish
Let's be clear about that though. This is highly political, and was prompted specifically by Trump's election to the presidency. It's not a great indicator of whether the charedi/ultra orthodox communities (and Rabbis) would be comfortable with her conversion and with their conduct.

Then again, the Kushner's are not charedi/ultra orthodox - no one should ever have misconstrued that part. They are at most modern orthodox, which is why the whole issue is largely one for the modern orthodox community to grapple with. Among those circles, RHS, and to a much lesser extent RHL, are certainly considered authoritative.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 23, 2017, 11:22:46 AM
Following thread
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shulem92 on January 23, 2017, 11:25:52 AM
Hey cool. Apparently I started a new thread... Nice title jj
There's a lot more in the GOP thread. TimT quoted the exact spot upthread
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Nice title jj
Can someone say plagiarize?  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shulem92 on January 23, 2017, 11:39:17 AM
Can someone say plagiarize?  :)
Well who's plagiarizing? Its gonna be credited to me, but I had nothing to do with it
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 11:40:35 AM
Well who's plagiarizing? Its gonna be credited to me, but I had nothing to do with it
No JJ.  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 11:47:54 AM
Can someone say parody?  :)
FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 23, 2017, 12:39:14 PM
Hey cool. Apparently I started a new thread... Nice title jj
There's a lot more in the GOP thread. TimT quoted the exact spot upthread
Yes. That stuff needs to be merged in. Otherwise we won't be able to keep up.

Btw, anyone know which shaital she was  wearing for the Friday night ball? It didn't look like her regular shabbos one... Must of been custom.

(Il spell it out just to be safe. -I don't really follow shaital styles. Just making a point.)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 01:05:31 PM
Btw, anyone know which shaital she was  wearing for the Friday night ball? It didn't look like her regular shabbos one... Must of been custom.
She does wear one?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 01:35:28 PM
Just making a point.
Which is? Anything more than that her standards are not where you and I would like them to be?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 01:44:48 PM
She does wear one?

Not in public.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on January 23, 2017, 02:29:37 PM
She does wear one?

That post was supposed to be in sarc font...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 02:38:55 PM
That post was supposed to be in sarc font...
...but I am asking a serious question. So I guess that means she doesn't?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: cholent on January 23, 2017, 02:43:03 PM
...but I am asking a serious question. So I guess that means she doesn't?

She doesn't. But the same is true for many modern Orthodox, and would not lead me to conclude that someone was not an observant Jew, although I strongly disagree with that action.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 23, 2017, 02:57:51 PM
Which is? Anything more than that her standards are not where you and I would like them to be?
"Standards" lol
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 02:59:18 PM
"Standards" lol
true, but is that what your point was? She has a long way to go before a shaitel is even on the agenda.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 03:03:51 PM
She doesn't. But the same is true for many modern Orthodox, and would not lead me to conclude that someone was not an observant Jew, although I strongly disagree with that action.
I am not judging her. Like any religion I think we all understand there are different levels of observance.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 23, 2017, 03:32:52 PM
if I may comment, did she light candles when she got to the WH before the parade? (Then was the zman). And looks to me the pass to ride a car was used home from the parade, to/from the ball, Shabbos morning to church and maybe more. I do have to say, she only posted on Social media pictures from the ball only on Motzai Shabbos, so maybe....

IIRC Joe Lieberman walked as VP Candidate while USSS drove alongside
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
if I may comment, did she light candles when she got to the WH before the parade? (Then was the zman). And looks to me the pass to ride a car was used home from the parade, to/from the ball, Shabbos morning to church and maybe more. I do have to say, she only posted on Social media pictures from the ball only on Motzai Shabbos, so maybe....

IIRC Joe Lieberman walked as VP Candidate while USSS drove alongside
we have no confirmation that she got anywhere near a car at all iinm
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 23, 2017, 03:43:17 PM
we have no confirmation that she got anywhere near a car at all iinm

I serious don't believe they walked home after parade & to/from the ball (maybe they slept over at WH?) and definitely didn't walk to church (1:15 walk from the WH, 35 min from their home)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 03:46:33 PM
http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 03:46:53 PM
we have no confirmation that she got anywhere near a car at all iinm
We have no conformation the sun will come up tomorrow either.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 03:51:58 PM
http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html
Interesting and great article!!!

When you convert do you take on another name?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on January 23, 2017, 04:00:01 PM
Hey cool. Apparently I started a new thread... Nice title jj
There's a lot more in the GOP thread. TimT quoted the exact spot upthread
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on January 23, 2017, 04:04:20 PM
They could drive in cars and have wigs for all I care. As long as they hold Rabbeinu Tam. Not 1 minute less :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on January 23, 2017, 04:12:03 PM
Interesting and great article!!!

When you convert do you take on another name?
Yes, although it can and often does mirror the current name
We should start a thread on what jewish names go with JT ?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 04:13:53 PM
Interesting and great article!!!

When you convert do you take on another name?

That is the custom, though I don't believe it is obligatory.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:19:25 PM
Does the name Yael translate?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 04:21:48 PM
Does the name Yael translate?

mountain goat

ETA: Though it is a very popular Jewish girls name, sourced in the Bible and may not derive from the same root as mountain goat.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:24:30 PM
mountain goat
What am I missing?
Yael (Ivanka) Trump
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on January 23, 2017, 04:25:02 PM
mountain goat
but this also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jael
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on January 23, 2017, 04:25:26 PM
I serious don't believe they walked home after parade & to/from the ball (maybe they slept over at WH?) and definitely didn't walk to church (1:15 walk from the WH, 35 min from their home)
All the Trump's slept in the WH Friday night.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 04:26:20 PM
What am I missing?
Yael (Ivanka) Trump

see my edit
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:27:22 PM
but this also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jael
see my edit
Now it makes sense.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 23, 2017, 04:29:27 PM
All the Trump's slept in the WH Friday night.
And they walked to the ball & church?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: larryilo on January 23, 2017, 04:32:15 PM
Whats with cellphone Ivanka was holding in her hand?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 23, 2017, 04:36:39 PM
time stamp from facebook
Ivanka Trump
January 20 at 3:31pm ·
Heading to the parade! 🇺🇸 #inauguration
According to my calendar, this was Friday. Her next post was Motzai Shabbos.

Did anyone actually see a picture of them taking pictures on the balcony?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on January 23, 2017, 04:41:11 PM
According to my calendar, this was Friday. Her next post was Motzai Shabbos.

Did anyone actually see a picture of them taking pictures on the balcony?
whoops
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: larryilo on January 23, 2017, 04:41:43 PM
According to my calendar, this was Friday. Her next post was Motzai Shabbos.

Did anyone actually see a picture of them taking pictures on the balcony?
I saw a picture on Mail online cant find It now

but you can see her with a cellphone in hand o the balcony its from Saturday 10 AM
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on January 23, 2017, 04:42:12 PM
I saw a picture on Mail online cant find It now

but you can see her with a cellphone in hand o the balcony its from Saturday 10 AM
Please post
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 23, 2017, 04:43:52 PM
I serious don't believe they walked home after parade & to/from the ball (maybe they slept over at WH?) and definitely didn't walk to church (1:15 walk from the WH, 35 min from their home)
Am I the only who finds it hilarious to walk an hour to church on shabbos morning?
I hope they had a good kiddush though. Either way.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 23, 2017, 04:47:48 PM
Am I the only who finds it hilarious to walk an hour to church on shabbos morning?
I hope they had a good kiddush though. Either way.
Bacon and schnapps.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:48:09 PM
Why is everything about her? He is the one this should be about.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: coralsnake on January 23, 2017, 04:49:10 PM
Why is everything about her? He is the one this should be about.
Because everyones trying to prove that shes not a real Jew.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on January 23, 2017, 04:49:40 PM
Why is everything about her? He is the one this should be about.
No one cares about Prince William. They care about Kate Middleton.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: coralsnake on January 23, 2017, 04:51:24 PM
No one cares about Prince William. They care about Kate Middleton.
Ivanka is Prince William in this case.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 04:53:03 PM
Why is everything about her? He is the one this should be about.
That would be lashon hara ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:53:28 PM
Because everyones trying to prove that shes not a real Jew.
That is so sad.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: davidmal on January 23, 2017, 04:54:56 PM
I saw a picture on Mail online cant find It now

but you can see her with a cellphone in hand o the balcony its from Saturday 10 AM
photoshop....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:55:44 PM
That would be lashon hara ;)
So it is OK to talk negatively about a female Jew but not a male?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 04:56:30 PM
So it is OK to talk negatively about a female Jew but not a male?
LOL, not what I said.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 04:57:37 PM
That is so sad.
Conversion is one of the most controversial topics in Judaism.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:58:30 PM
LOL, not what I said.
I know but was hoping for a different response.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 04:59:21 PM
Conversion is one of the most controversial topics in Judaism.
The process or that one is even allowed to?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 23, 2017, 05:00:22 PM
Conversion is one of the most controversial topics in Orthodox Judaism.

FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 05:00:45 PM
The process or that one is even allowed to?
The process and the Rabbi who performs it.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: larryilo on January 23, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
photoshop....

Doubt it... was a really unclear picture

Can't find it... it was on MailOnline
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on January 23, 2017, 05:04:43 PM
So it is OK to talk negatively about a female Jew but not a male?
If they think she is non Jew then it's not LH.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:11:45 PM
If they think she is non Jew then it's not LH.
Wouldn't saying she is a non-Jew all by itself be LH?
Getting the hang of the lingo.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 05:11:48 PM
Why is everything about her? He is the one this should be about.
There isn't much of a conversation to have about him
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:13:09 PM
There isn't much of a conversation to have about him
It is OK for him to ride in a car but not her? How about taking pictures?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 05:14:26 PM
It is OK for him to ride in a car but not her? How about taking pictures?
There are lots of Jews who don't keep Shabbos.
OTOH, converts who claim to be Orthodox...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 23, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
Why is everything about her? He is the one this should be about.
I for one am equally not cool with discussing either of their religious proclivities.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 05:17:21 PM
It is OK for him to ride in a car but not her? How about taking pictures?
No and the car conversation is equally about him.
There are lots of Jews who don't keep Shabbos.
OTOH, converts who claim to be Orthodox...
+1 but -1 on Orthodox Rabbis giving "dispensations"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:18:23 PM
Are converts held to higher standard in Judaism?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 05:19:36 PM
Are converts held to higher standard in Judaism?
By definition the conversion is only good if you accept the 613 commandments, so there's going to be more scrutiny from others than for someone who is born a Jew and remains one even if he keeps 0 commandments.

They warn you of this before you start the conversion process when they try to discourage you from converting.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:19:40 PM
Are converts held to higher standard in Judaism?
If they didn't fully accept adherence to the commandments at time of conversion, the conversion is meaningless.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:23:11 PM
By definition the conversion is only good if you accept the 613 commandments, so there's going to be more scrutiny from others than for someone who is born a Jew and remains one even if he keeps 0 commandments.

They warn you of this before you start the conversion process when they try to discourage you from converting.
If they didn't fully accept adherence to the commandments at time of conversion, the conversion is meaningless.
Isn't her adherence based on the teachings of the Rabbi doing the conversion?
Example: Rabbi says it is not mandatory to cover your hair in public.

Also once she goes through the process and it is completed who here has the right to say she is not a Jew?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:25:03 PM
How does this answer his question?
If a convert never kept shabbos, they are not Jewish. If someone both to a Jewish mother never kept shabbos, they are Jewish. That can be referred to as converts being held on a higher standard.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:27:28 PM
Isn't her adherence based on the teachings of the Rabbi doing the conversion?
Example: Rabbi says it is not mandatory to cover your hair in public.

Also once she goes through the process and it is completed who here has the right to say she is not a Jew?
The process itself does not turn one Jewish unless the acceptance was there beforehand. If her Rabbi tells her something required by Judaism is outdated, then her acceptance at the time of conversion was lacking.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 23, 2017, 05:30:16 PM
If a convert never kept shabbos, they are not Jewish. If someone both to a Jewish mother never kept shabbos, they are Jewish. That can be referred to as converts being held on a higher standard.
A convert's actions post conversion can make them retroactively not jewish?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:30:38 PM
No
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Isn't her adherence based on the teachings of the Rabbi doing the conversion?
Example: Rabbi says it is not mandatory to cover your hair in public.

Also once she goes through the process and it is completed who here has the right to say she is not a Jew?
Sort of. It is extremely complicated which is part of why it is very controversial.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:31:27 PM
The process itself does not turn one Jewish unless the acceptance was there beforehand. If her Rabbi tells her something required by Judaism is outdated, then her acceptance at the time of conversion was lacking.
What if she accepts everything and follows it as explain to her by the Rabbi? It seems this really should be about the Rabbi that did the conversion and she is just the scapegoat.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 23, 2017, 05:32:57 PM
I skimmed through this,  so forgive me if I missed anything,  but I heard Eric Trump say that everyone slept over at the WH,  and that had been the plan.
Not sure if anyone here learnt hilchos geirus,  but if she was mekabel what the Beis DIn told her to be mekabel she is considered a ger tzedek lekula Alma. Unfortunately it's not terribly rare for that to only be a basic shabbos kashrus taharas hamishpacha.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 23, 2017, 05:33:26 PM
If a convert never kept shabbos, they are not Jewish. If someone both to a Jewish mother never kept shabbos, they are Jewish. That can be referred to as converts being held on a higher standard.
A convert's actions post conversion can make them retroactively not jewish?
No
Didn't think so. Can you explain your first quote then? In what way is the convert being held to a higher standard? After conversion, a jew is a jew. I don't think they could disqualify themselves.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:33:52 PM
No one can ever accuse me of not defending Trump.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: grodnoking on January 23, 2017, 05:33:53 PM
What if she accepts everything and follows it as explain to her by the Rabbi? It seems this really should be about the Rabbi that did the conversion and she is just the scapegoat.
It really should be.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:34:14 PM
What if she accepts everything and follows it as explain to her by the Rabbi? It seems this really should be about the Rabbi that did the conversion and she is just the scapegoat.
Then the Rabbi is not religious and she is not Jewish. If someone gives you a cookbook with bad recipes, it's the fault of the author, but that doesn't change the fact that your food is inedible. She may also be a victim, as may the Rabbi be a victim of his upbringing and background.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 23, 2017, 05:34:46 PM
@JTZ You asked a few times and didn't get an answer - no reason for her to not be photographed (unless she asked them to) in shabbos
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:36:48 PM
@JTZ You asked a few times and didn't get an answer - no reason for her to not be photographed (unless she asked them to) in shabbos
TY! Any chance to write this so I can understand it?

I skimmed through this,  so forgive me if I missed anything,  but I heard Eric Trump say that everyone slept over at the WH,  and that had been the plan.
Not sure if anyone here learnt hilchos geirus,  but if she was mekabel what the Beis DIn told her to be mekabel she is considered a ger tzedek lekula Alma. Unfortunately it's not terribly rare for that to only be a basic shabbos kashrus taharas hamishpacha.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:37:01 PM
Didn't think so. Can you explain your first quote then? In what way is the convert being held to a higher standard? After conversion, a jew is a jew. I don't think they could disqualify themselves.
A convert is watched to see whether there was ever indication of religious acceptance, a factor which is irrelevant by someone born Jewish.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 23, 2017, 05:37:53 PM
A convert is watched to see whether there was ever indication of religious acceptance, a factor which is irrelevant by someone born Jewish.
Watched by who? I was told all jews deserve benefit of the doubt.
Maybe I'm taking things the wrong way but I'm going to have to back out of this thread.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:38:37 PM
Then the Rabbi is not religious and she is not Jewish. If someone gives you a cookbook with bad recipes, it's the fault of the author, but that doesn't change the fact that your food is inedible. She may also be a victim, as may the Rabbi be a victim of his upbringing and background.
I understand all that. I am working off the conversion was legit. You are saying it wasn't?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
A convert is watched to see whether there was ever indication of religious acceptance...
...and for her the result was?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 05:41:53 PM
What if she accepts everything and follows it as explain to her by the Rabbi? It seems this really should be about the Rabbi that did the conversion and she is just the scapegoat.
Very much so, but do you think she would have converted if the standards were _______________?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on January 23, 2017, 05:43:07 PM
...and for her the result was?
That's for the converting beis din to decide. And if some orthodox circles don't accept that beis din as legitimate they will not accept anyone that converted through them as Jewish.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 23, 2017, 05:43:14 PM
I understand all that. I am working off the conversion was legit. You are saying it wasn't?
My understanding is that the conversion was legit, and at this point they are held to the same standard.

I certainly hope all of the reports of Shabbos violation are alternative facts.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on January 23, 2017, 05:44:32 PM
Has anyone asked Rabbi Schwartz from the CRC if she's Jewish? He's a genius when it comes to geirus.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:46:12 PM
My understanding is that the conversion was legit, and at this point they are held to the same standard.

I certainly hope all of the reports of Shabbos violation are alternative facts.
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:47:38 PM
That's for the converting beis din to decide. And if some orthodox circles don't accept that beis din as legitimate they will not accept anyone that converted through them as Jewish.
So basically everyone decides on their own?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 05:51:16 PM
Has anyone asked Rabbi Schwartz from the CRC if she's Jewish? He's a genius when it comes to geirus.
Maybe we have someone from Chicago here who can ask ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 05:53:05 PM
Maybe we have someone from Chicago here who can ask ;D
As2 and he speaks the language.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 05:54:40 PM
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?
Yes
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 23, 2017, 05:58:57 PM
TY! Any chance to write this so I can understand it?
Basically,  there's a  standard a convert is required to wholeheartedly accept.  That is determined by the administering court. If they set the bar real low that's incorrect,  but the conversion is still valid
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on January 23, 2017, 06:00:12 PM
Basically,  there's a  standard a convert is required to wholeheartedly accept.  That is determined by the administering court. If they set the bar real low that's incorrect,  but the conversion is still valid
so if i convert s/o by telling him judaism only requires a beard that would be a good conversion?!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 06:01:16 PM
Yes
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: David Smith on January 23, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.
Yes. The only reason people are focusing on it is that it may be indicative whether she was Jewish from the start.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 23, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Basically,  there's a  standard a convert is required to wholeheartedly accept.  That is determined by the administering court. If they set the bar real low that's incorrect,  but the conversion is still valid
That's highly debatable.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 06:05:12 PM
Yes. The only reason people are focusing on it is that it may be indicative whether she was Jewish from the start.
The only thing that matters is what she believed at time of conversion, correct? If she changes after that I thought you said that has no effect on the legitimacy of the conversion.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 23, 2017, 06:06:45 PM
That's highly debatable.
That's why we're here. 
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on January 23, 2017, 06:07:17 PM
The only thing that matters is what she accepted to do at time of conversion, correct? If she changes after that has no effect on the legitimacy of the conversion.
FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 06:07:34 PM
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?
correct
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 23, 2017, 06:07:45 PM
As2 and he speaks the language.
I do see him on occasion and may very well ask next time. You're welcome to join me, we can have a conversion DO
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on January 23, 2017, 06:09:07 PM
I do see him on occasion and may very well ask next time. You're welcome to join me, we can have a conversion DO
Do it a shallots and you'll get a lot more people to come
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 23, 2017, 06:10:18 PM
so if i convert s/o by telling him judaism only requires a beard that would be a good conversion?!
There's a minimum standard. I'm working from memory,  but there's a tosfos in menachos (I think) a lot of this part of hilchos geirus is based on. I haven't learned this for a while,  and Dan is correct,  it's all very debatable.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 06:10:53 PM
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.

Close.  If the rabbi who allegedly gave them an unwarranted exemption in fact did so, and he is the same rabbi who converted her, there is room to claim that the rabbi who converted her is not qualified to administrate conversions.  The article I linked earlier seems to convincingly put such claims to rest.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 06:11:28 PM
Do it a shallots and you'll get a lot more people to come
Don't want more people. With just the two of them I will get 4 different answers.  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 23, 2017, 06:12:15 PM
The article I linked earlier seems to convincingly put such claims to rest.
That is the basis for my questions.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on January 23, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Don't want more people. With just the two of them I will get 4 different answers.  :P
Lol
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on January 23, 2017, 06:18:04 PM
Close.  If the rabbi who allegedly gave them an unwarranted exemption in fact did so, and he is the same rabbi who converted her, there is room to claim that the rabbi who converted her is not qualified to administrate conversions.  The article I linked earlier seems to convincingly put such claims to rest.
that article didnt prove anything imo.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 06:19:32 PM
that article didnt prove anything imo.

convincing ~= proof
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on January 23, 2017, 06:20:40 PM
convincing ~= proof
he basically said he thinks she was mekabel
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 23, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?
Yes
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 23, 2017, 06:46:45 PM
The only thing that matters is what she believed at time of conversion, correct? If she changes after that I thought you said that has no effect on the legitimacy of the conversion.
The question is, do subsequent violations indicate that the acceptance was insincere, or is it just a human failing, which we all do to some extent.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 23, 2017, 07:07:00 PM
While everyone is busy with Ivanka, Jared was by the parade/ball/church together with her, and no question on him as he a Jew from birth, and openly declared that he is an observant jew
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Amusch on January 23, 2017, 07:21:40 PM
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?

The answer to this is probably. There was a famous case where Rav Soloveitchik from YU said that since someone showed post-conversion no true intention of maintaining his religion, he uprooted the conversion retroactively.
Her conversion seems slightly iffy, but when push comes to shove, since she has a decent idea of core Jewish mitzvos, and seemed to have accepted them full-heartedly, as she understood them, she probably really is Jewish. Knowledge of nuance, or the greater community's standards of observance would probably be ideal but not necessary for a conversion to be valid.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 23, 2017, 07:28:13 PM
While everyone is busy with Ivanka, Jared was by the parade/ball/church together with her, and no question on him as he a Jew from birth, and openly declared that he is an observant jew
And he went home with Ivanka!

See what I did there? ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 23, 2017, 08:42:02 PM
And he went home with Ivanka!

See what I did there? ;)
I see exactly
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 23, 2017, 08:48:21 PM
http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html?m=1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 23, 2017, 09:01:54 PM
http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html?m=1
REPOST!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 23, 2017, 09:05:10 PM
http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html?m=1
Quote
Let us celebrate this gift that Hashem has given us in having such attractive and prominent models of serious Jews in our time. 

Nebach
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on January 23, 2017, 11:47:26 PM
Nebach
thats about right
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yzj on January 24, 2017, 12:04:05 AM
I don't think we would be having this discussion if there was an appropriate description that we would use rather than lumping everything together as orthodox. We have "chassidish, ultra orthodox, etc. why not have a term " Culturally Orthodox Jews" or the like which would be an accurate description of those who have an affinity and identify with orthodox Jewishness on a cultural level while not yet being 100% on board in practice. I think this would eliminate a lot of the confusion and murkiness. And, let me say, I am really proud and excited that we have a wonderful Culturally Orthodox Jewish couple in Washington!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 24, 2017, 12:12:08 AM
I don't think we would be having this discussion if there was an appropriate description that we would use rather than lumping everything together as orthodox. We have "chassidish, ultra orthodox, etc. why not have a term " Culturally Orthodox Jews" or the like which would be an accurate description of those who have an affinity and identify with orthodox Jewishness on a cultural level while not yet being 100% on board in practice. I think this would eliminate a lot of the confusion and murkiness. And, let me say, I am really proud and excited that we have a wonderful Culturally Orthodox Jewish couple in Washington!
Can someone convert to that?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 24, 2017, 12:19:33 AM
Can someone convert to that?
+1  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 24, 2017, 12:22:26 AM
+1  :)
If you are looking, I am sure there are Rabbi's who will do it.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yzj on January 24, 2017, 12:24:22 AM
Can someone convert to that?
I would think that wouldn't be relevant since in the end of the day they are really self identifying as (Culturally) Orthodox. There would certainly be implications downstream vis a vis marriage etc. but that would be an issue that could be discussed down the road...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 24, 2017, 12:25:34 AM
If you are looking, I am sure there are Rabbi's who will do it.
If I wanted to go that route I actually know a reform Rabbi.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 24, 2017, 12:26:28 AM
but that would be an issue that could be discussed when they become a public figure.
FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 24, 2017, 06:43:24 AM
I don't think we would be having this discussion if there was an appropriate description that we would use rather than lumping everything together as orthodox. We have "chassidish, ultra orthodox, etc. why not have a term " Culturally Orthodox Jews" or the like which would be an accurate description of those who have an affinity and identify with orthodox Jewishness on a cultural level while not yet being 100% on board in practice. I think this would eliminate a lot of the confusion and murkiness. And, let me say, I am really proud and excited that we have a wonderful Culturally Orthodox Jewish couple in Washington!
It's called conservative. Now they call it open orthodox. It's all the same.

Basically culturally orthodox is:observe Jewish holidays and traditions with all the trimmings, but not bound to any real rules or halacha. - these are flexible depending on your needs. You just need to author a "teshuva" documenting the "need" that required a "heter".

מי בקש מכם זאת.......
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 24, 2017, 07:54:57 AM
It's called conservative. Now they call it open orthodox. It's all the same.

Basically culturally orthodox is:observe Jewish holidays and traditions with all the trimmings, but not bound to any real rules or halacha. - these are flexible depending on your needs. You just need to author a "teshuva" documenting the "need" that required a "heter".

מי בקש מכם זאת.......
Sounds more like Christianity
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 24, 2017, 07:57:20 AM
Sounds more like Christianity
>:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 24, 2017, 07:58:57 AM
>:( >:( >:(
It was not meant as a derogatory statement about Christianity, I was merely saying it sounded more like it than Judaism
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 24, 2017, 08:01:27 AM
>:( >:( >:(
For you:
Sounds more like Protestants
:P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 24, 2017, 08:02:32 AM
It was not meant as a derogatory statement about Christianity, I was merely saying it sounded more like it than Judaism
Reading this thread I would not know if I was on a Catholic site or a Jewish site. Talk about deja vu.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 24, 2017, 08:11:28 AM
For you:
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yzj on January 24, 2017, 09:22:38 AM
It's called conservative. Now they call it open orthodox. It's all the same.

Basically culturally orthodox is:observe Jewish holidays and traditions with all the trimmings, but not bound to any real rules or halacha. - these are flexible depending on your needs. You just need to author a "teshuva" documenting the "need" that required a "heter".

מי בקש מכם זאת.......
But that is the point. There needs to be a name that is instantly self defining rather than some hybrid Orthodox term that is murky and can be confused with full practicing Orthodox Jews. It would be much better if these groups didn't feel the need to use the term Orthodox at all but given the fact that they do use the term and that this tends to lead to "well if they say they are Orthodox why do they do xyz", the term Culturally Orthodox would eliminate this problem. This does not mean that it would have any religious significance from an orthodox perspective, it would just be a functionally descriptive term.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on January 24, 2017, 09:57:31 AM
But that is the point. There needs to be a name that is instantly self defining rather than some hybrid Orthodox term that is murky and can be confused with full practicing Orthodox Jews. It would be much better if these groups didn't feel the need to use the term Orthodox at all but given the fact that they do use the term and that this tends to lead to "well if they say they are Orthodox why do they do xyz", the term Culturally Orthodox would eliminate this problem. This does not mean that it would have any religious significance from an orthodox perspective, it would just be a functionally descriptive term.
True. But groups like open orthodoxy don't want to change their official affiliation. It would turn off many constituents that would never go along with a non Orthodox group.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yzj on January 24, 2017, 10:11:29 AM
True. But groups like open orthodoxy don't want to change their official affiliation. It would turn off many constituents that would never go along with a non Orthodox group.
I agree with you. I do think that even if just the Orthodox Jews themselves started to use that term to describe Open Orthodoxy and the like it would have a significant impact. It concisely describes the Orthodox view of these movements in two words without having to give a long speech to differentiate between the movements that is often lost on the non observant listener. At the very least it would define those movements for ourselves, which is obviously needed as evidenced by the confusion expressed by Orthodox Jews over the events in Washington these past few days.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 04:14:09 PM
We all do aveiros, so precisely where do we draw the line?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 24, 2017, 04:25:16 PM
We all do aveiros, so precisely where do we draw the line?
Firstly, let's try to use the Torah method and say that we aren't perfect in keeping all mitzvos.

The line is drawn when a person finds justification for acting against halacha, or says that it is right to do so.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 24, 2017, 05:03:51 PM
We all do aveiros, so precisely where do we draw the line?
I'm so glad a DDF glitch let me like your post twice, ha. I think we judge ourselves favorably. When it's our aveiros, we are orthodox people who are trying. When it's someone else with specific aveiros, they are "conservatives" or reform or open orthodox etc. When it's us and loshon hora/v'havta lirayacha kamocha/being careful about treating converts as the torah reminds us myriad times, eh no big deal, we're orthodox. But if uncle saul drives to shul on shabbas, he's conservative.

I say we do away with all the other labels and look to halacha. There are halachic jews, and non jews. There is no 3rd status. Granted, there are special laws to treat kohanim, levi'im, converts, elders, rabbis, and maybe I as missing a few. Let's stop with ALL the other labels.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: gozalim on January 24, 2017, 05:16:54 PM
I'm so glad a DDF glitch let me like your post twice, ha. I think we judge ourselves favorably. When it's our aveiros, we are orthodox people who are trying. When it's someone else with specific aveiros, they are "conservatives" or reform or open orthodox etc. When it's us and loshon hora/v'havta lirayacha kamocha/being careful about treating converts as the torah reminds us myriad times, eh no big deal, we're orthodox. But if uncle saul drives to shul on shabbas, he's conservative.

I say we do away with all the other labels and look to halacha. There are halachic jews, and non jews. There is no 3rd status. Granted, there are special laws to treat kohanim, levi'im, converts, elders, rabbis, and maybe I as missing a few. Let's stop with ALL the other labels.
Firstly, let's try to use the Torah method and say that we aren't perfect in keeping all mitzvos.

The line is drawn when a person finds justification for acting against halacha, or says that it is right to do so.
to put it in other words: none of us is perfect, but the goalposts of Halachah don't move. driving to shul on shabbos doesn't make you conservative. allowing it does
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 24, 2017, 05:18:04 PM
I'm so glad a DDF glitch let me like your post twice, ha. I think we judge ourselves favorably. When it's our aveiros, we are orthodox people who are trying. When it's someone else with specific aveiros, they are "conservatives" or reform or open orthodox etc. When it's us and loshon hora/v'havta lirayacha kamocha/being careful about treating converts as the torah reminds us myriad times, eh no big deal, we're orthodox. But if uncle saul drives to shul on shabbas, he's conservative.

I say we do away with all the other labels and look to halacha. There are halachic jews, and non jews. There is no 3rd status. Granted, there are special laws to treat kohanim, levi'im, converts, elders, rabbis, and maybe I as missing a few. Let's stop with ALL the other labels.
No. There are transgressions, and then there are systemic disregards of the halacha system.

Chalking up eating in a shell fish restaurant and riding a car to church on shabbos as "avairos that we all do" is disingenuous and wrong.

This couple is a perfect case study of everything that is wrong the the left wing of modern orthodoxy today.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 24, 2017, 05:20:46 PM
I'm so glad a DDF glitch let me like your post twice, ha. I think we judge ourselves favorably. When it's our aveiros, we are orthodox people who are trying. When it's someone else with specific aveiros, they are "conservatives" or reform or open orthodox etc. When it's us and loshon hora/v'havta lirayacha kamocha/being careful about treating converts as the torah reminds us myriad times, eh no big deal, we're orthodox. But if uncle saul drives to shul on shabbas, he's conservative.

I say we do away with all the other labels and look to halacha. There are halachic jews, and non jews. There is no 3rd status. Granted, there are special laws to treat kohanim, levi'im, converts, elders, rabbis, and maybe I as missing a few. Let's stop with ALL the other labels.

Are we entitled to criticize movements that claim some things are not aveiros, even though we are doing aveiros, but at least admit it and hopefully want to improve?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 24, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
This couple is a perfect case study of everything that is wrong the the left wing of modern orthodoxy today.

We need to be clear that it not them. Its their rabbi's. If not the rabbis some would identify as  non-orthodox or mesorati and some would keep much more.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 24, 2017, 05:26:32 PM
If you poll non-shomer-shabbos Israelis (that do have some religious background, as opposed to 100% תינוקות שנשבו who know a nothing, or close to nothing about יידישקייט) if they are reform, conservative, or just non-observant, I would guess that an overwhelming majority would answer non-observant (לא-דתי).

However, in America I have heard of people being very religiously conservative, or reform.

Do you see the difference? The former say, I don't adhere to religious laws. The latter say, I am changing the religious laws to suit me. I define the religion!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 24, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
If you poll non-shomer-shabbos Israelis (that do have some religious background, as opposed to 100% תינוקות שנשבו who know a nothing, or close to nothing about יידישקייט) if they are reform, conservative, or just non-observant, I would guess that an overwhelming majority would answer non-observant (לא-דתי).

However, in America I have heard of people being very religiously conservative, or reform.

Do you see the difference? The former say, I don't adhere to religious laws. The latter say, I am changing the religious laws to suit me. I define the religion!
It's not just Israel. It's like that in many countries.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 05:28:44 PM


Firstly, let's try to use the Torah method and say that we aren't perfect in keeping all mitzvos.

The line is drawn when a person finds justification for acting against halacha, or says that it is right to do so.

Those two are different.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 24, 2017, 05:28:57 PM
We need to be clear that it not them. Its their rabbi's. If not the rabbis some would identify as  non-orthodox or mesorati and some would keep much more.
Which is why some people (correctly IMHO) say that the essence of the "who is a jew" is actually "who is a Rabbi".
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 24, 2017, 05:30:44 PM
No. There are transgressions, and then there are systemic disregards of the halacha system.

Chalking up eating in a shell fish restaurant and riding a car to church on shabbos as "avairos that we all do" is disingenuous and wrong.

This couple is a perfect case study of everything that is wrong the the left wing of modern orthodoxy today.
So you're orthodox and they're something less because your sins are outside the realms of shabbas and kosher and sitting in a church? Why are those realms the deciding factors for you in this label system of yours? Aren't all d'oraisas equal to each other, and same with all d'rabanans?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 05:33:17 PM
I'm so glad a DDF glitch let me like your post twice, ha. I think we judge ourselves favorably. When it's our aveiros, we are orthodox people who are trying. When it's someone else with specific aveiros, they are "conservatives" or reform or open orthodox etc. When it's us and loshon hora/v'havta lirayacha kamocha/being careful about treating converts as the torah reminds us myriad times, eh no big deal, we're orthodox. But if uncle saul drives to shul on shabbas, he's conservative.

I say we do away with all the other labels and look to halacha. There are halachic jews, and non jews. There is no 3rd status. Granted, there are special laws to treat kohanim, levi'im, converts, elders, rabbis, and maybe I as missing a few. Let's stop with ALL the other labels.
Can you take back a like (or two)?

I'm not saying there are no lines, I am just unconvinced that the Kushners have crossed them to point of not being frum.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 05:34:52 PM
No. There are transgressions, and then there are systemic disregards of the halacha system.

Chalking up eating in a shell fish restaurant and riding a car to church on shabbos as "avairos that we all do" is disingenuous and wrong.

This couple is a perfect case study of everything that is wrong the the left wing of modern orthodoxy today.
If that's something they say is okay to do, you're right. If they gave into their yetzer hora, then I don't think so.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on January 24, 2017, 05:35:14 PM
So you're orthodox and they're something less because your sins are outside the realms of shabbas and kosher and sitting in a church? Why are those realms the deciding factors for you in this label system of yours? Aren't all d'oraisas equal to each other, and same with all d'rabanans?

You keep ignoring the simple answer to all your questions:

The line is drawn when a person finds justification for acting against halacha, or says that it is right to do so.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 24, 2017, 05:35:38 PM
If you poll non-shomer-shabbos Israelis (that do have some religious background, as opposed to 100% תינוקות שנשבו who know a nothing, or close to nothing about יידישקייט) if they are reform, conservative, or just non-observant, I would guess that an overwhelming majority would answer non-observant (לא-דתי).

However, in America I have heard of people being very religiously conservative, or reform.

Do you see the difference? The former say, I don't adhere to religious laws. The latter say, I am changing the religious laws to suit me. I define the religion!
Idk how much you guys "get out there" in the secular world but here's a story for you, I had a coworker a few years ago I became friends with who ate dairy out and his family didn't keep shabbas at all growing up. While in NYU he met a Rabbi that he's still in touch with this to this day, drives out weekly at night to learn with him. As we chatted more and more, he made strides in eating out less, fasted with me whenever I told him it was a fast day, and just in general had many good conversations about Jewish philosophy. God plays a big part in his life, he's doing his best, and it made me realize how much I took my "head start" for granted. Some of you would call him conservative, to me he's way frummer and more genuine than myself, who you would probably call "modern orthodox" if you saw my spec sheet (I keep shabbas, kosher, but I'm not perfect and don't daven with a minyan except on shabbas, I don't learn enough and I grew up in JDS system with 0 excuse).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 24, 2017, 05:36:19 PM
It's not just Israel. It's like that in many countries.
I bring Israel as an example, because the percentage of Jews who identify as Conservative or Reform is probably a rounding error there.

I refrain from using the common Israeli term חילוני as every Yid (according to Halacha) is part of גוי קדוש
But if you hone the question further, and ask what is it that they don't observe, it will be Torah Judaism (or as it was called in arguments against Karaites - Rabbinical Judaism) and not any other flavor or form that showed up in recent (or not so recent) history. They see those as man made creations, which serve a cultural purpose at best (which might be why they are so few amongst Israelis, because they have Israeli culture as the alternative).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 05:36:25 PM
So you're orthodox and they're something less because your sins are outside the realms of shabbas and kosher and sitting in a church? Why are those realms the deciding factors for you in this label system of yours? Aren't all d'oraisas equal to each other, and same with all d'rabanans?
They're not equal; Shabbos is a defining line.

They probably believe they got a real heter, so I don't know that they're considered mechallel Shabbos b'farhesya.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 24, 2017, 05:37:06 PM
You keep ignoring the simple answer to all your questions:
Not simple at all. I don't know what that means, "justify" it to myself. I justify all my actions to myself. No one would do something they truly thought was tremendously wrong, even a murderer. Unless he had like intense regret afterword in which case he's unlikely to repeat the action.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 24, 2017, 05:38:30 PM
They're not equal; Shabbos is a defining line.

They probably believe they got a real heter, so I don't know that they're considered mechallel Shabbos b'farhesya.
What's your source for that line? I would lose a halachic debate with anyone here, but is there a question that they possible did a d'oraisa, if so which one, or are we only concerned with d'rabanan of ameera l'akum? To me, that's an insane line to call someone not frum, for a one time d'rabanan.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 05:38:58 PM
Idk how much you guys "get out there" in the secular world but here's a story for you, I had a coworker a few years ago I became friends with who ate dairy out and his family didn't keep shabbas at all growing up. While in NYU he met a Rabbi that he's still in touch with this to this day, drives out weekly at night to learn with him. As we chatted more and more, he made strides in eating out less, fasted with me whenever I told him it was a fast day, and just in general had many good conversations about Jewish philosophy. God plays a big part in his life, he's doing his best, and it made me realize how much I took my "head start" for granted. Some of you would call him conservative, to me he's way frummer and more genuine than myself, who you would probably call "modern orthodox" if you saw my spec sheet (I keep shabbas, kosher, but I'm not perfect and don't daven with a minyan except on shabbas, I don't learn enough and I grew up in JDS system with 0 excuse).
It seems like the person you're referring to struggles with his yetzer hora, but doesn't claim eating treif is okay. He can then be considered frum.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 05:42:18 PM
What's your source for that line? I would lose a halachic debate with anyone here, but is there a question that they possible did a d'oraisa, if so which one, or are we only concerned with d'rabanan of ameera l'akum? To me, that's an insane line to call someone not frum, for a one time d'rabanan.
I think being mechallel Shabbos d'rabbonon might be over the line, but could be wrong. I'll try to research later.

I don't know if "one time" makes a difference if it's b'farhesya. The fact that there's a claimed heter might make it not b'farhesya.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 24, 2017, 05:42:26 PM
Idk how much you guys "get out there" in the secular world but here's a story for you, I had a coworker a few years ago I became friends with who ate dairy out and his family didn't keep shabbas at all growing up. While in NYU he met a Rabbi that he's still in touch with this to this day, drives out weekly at night to learn with him. As we chatted more and more, he made strides in eating out less, fasted with me whenever I told him it was a fast day, and just in general had many good conversations about Jewish philosophy. God plays a big part in his life, he's doing his best, and it made me realize how much I took my "head start" for granted. Some of you would call him conservative, to me he's way frummer and more genuine than myself, who you would probably call "modern orthodox" if you saw my spec sheet (I keep shabbas, kosher, but I'm not perfect and don't daven with a minyan except on shabbas, I don't learn enough and I grew up in JDS system with 0 excuse).
Why would anyone call him "conservative". He is obviously a תינוק שנשבה and is growing in his yiddishkeit as he is learning. Who knows, he might even get you to daven daily with a minyan and have daily learning with him :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 24, 2017, 06:00:15 PM
Idk how much you guys "get out there" in the secular world but here's a story for you, I had a coworker a few years ago I became friends with who ate dairy out and his family didn't keep shabbas at all growing up. While in NYU he met a Rabbi that he's still in touch with this to this day, drives out weekly at night to learn with him. As we chatted more and more, he made strides in eating out less, fasted with me whenever I told him it was a fast day, and just in general had many good conversations about Jewish philosophy. God plays a big part in his life, he's doing his best, and it made me realize how much I took my "head start" for granted. Some of you would call him conservative, to me he's way frummer and more genuine than myself, who you would probably call "modern orthodox" if you saw my spec sheet (I keep shabbas, kosher, but I'm not perfect and don't daven with a minyan except on shabbas, I don't learn enough and I grew up in JDS system with 0 excuse).

Who's wine is "yayen nesech"?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 24, 2017, 06:07:09 PM
Who's wine is "yayen nesech"?
Stam yeynam, but yes.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yzj on January 24, 2017, 06:10:39 PM
I'm so glad a DDF glitch let me like your post twice, ha. I think we judge ourselves favorably. When it's our aveiros, we are orthodox people who are trying. When it's someone else with specific aveiros, they are "conservatives" or reform or open orthodox etc. When it's us and loshon hora/v'havta lirayacha kamocha/being careful about treating converts as the torah reminds us myriad times, eh no big deal, we're orthodox. But if uncle saul drives to shul on shabbas, he's conservative.

I say we do away with all the other labels and look to halacha. There are halachic jews, and non jews. There is no 3rd status. Granted, there are special laws to treat kohanim, levi'im, converts, elders, rabbis, and maybe I as missing a few. Let's stop with ALL the other labels.

So you're orthodox and they're something less because your sins are outside the realms of shabbas and kosher and sitting in a church? Why are those realms the deciding factors for you in this label system of yours? Aren't all d'oraisas equal to each other, and same with all d'rabanans?
This is a really tough one. If someone doesn't cover their hair or wear pants does this make them non Orthodox? I don't think so. Certainly all of us make mistakes on a regular basis with lashon hora, and a myriad of other aveiros but we are either A) ignorant of some of the finer details of Halacha or B) we are human and mess up but essentially as long as one believes in following Halacha and aknowledges the authority of the gedolim and poskim one is orthodox. Actually all aveiros are not created equal as are discussed in the various halachos of mumar. There are certain situations such as one knowingly doing specific aveiros when there isn't even an incentive to do so or in a very open and brazen manor or in some cases aveiros having to do with Shabbos or avoda zora that would reflect on ones status as an Orthodox Jew. Not exactly analogous, but I think we would all understand that one who does not wear a kippa (though he might very well be orthodox) would be making a statement that is of more significance than one who sorts cutlery on Shabbos despite the latter being a dioraisa and the former possibly not even being dirabonon.The problems start when one (or ones rabbi) views Halacha as fungible and all the Halachic authorities as out of touch and irrelevant. At that point it would seem that one has crossed the line and would no longer be considered orthodox. We should certainly accept those who are culturally orthodox with love and patience and understanding, and hope that they will grow in their spiritual journey, just as we would like to grow beyond many of the things that we are deficient in as you pointed out, but it is unfair and unhealthy to erase all labels and thereby blur the lines for ourselves in what is considered normative Orthodox observance.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: FlyFirst on January 24, 2017, 06:13:05 PM
Whofff 19 pages about the Kushners.. A I care is if they had Gefilta fish and tomato dip Friday night in the WH
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 24, 2017, 08:32:27 PM
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.

If a non Jew keeps Shabbos that is actually an issue, just saying.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 24, 2017, 08:33:56 PM


מי בקש מכם זאת.......
מי בקש זאת מכם
Ftfy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 24, 2017, 08:35:40 PM
מי בקש זאת מכם
Ftfy.
מידכם
Ftfy!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 24, 2017, 08:36:04 PM
מידכם
Ftfy!
Touché
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 12:56:57 AM
If a non Jew keeps Shabbos that is actually an issue, just saying.
What's the issue?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on January 25, 2017, 01:02:33 AM
What's the issue?
In short, the Torah (I believe it's brought in the Talmud) prohibits a non Jew From keeping Shabbos.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 25, 2017, 01:03:19 AM
What's the issue?
http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/20585/why-shouldnt-gentiles-keep-shabbat
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 01:30:38 AM
http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/20585/why-shouldnt-gentiles-keep-shabbat
Ouch! Can anyone understand how this would look from a non-Jews perspective?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 25, 2017, 01:50:23 AM
Ouch! Can anyone understand how this would look from a non-Jews perspective?
Rambam offers a solution.

"
The general principle governing these matters is: They are not to be allowed to originate a new religion or create mitzvot for themselves based on their own decisions. They may either become righteous converts and accept all the mitzvot or retain their statutes without adding or detracting from them
"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 01:50:43 AM
Ouch! Can anyone understand how this would look from a non-Jews perspective?
Don't lump all non-Jews together.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 02:29:19 AM
Don't lump all non-Jews together.
Lets make it all common sense non-Jews then.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 02:30:35 AM
Rambam offers a solution.

"
The general principle governing these matters is: They are not to be allowed to originate a new religion or create mitzvot for themselves based on their own decisions. They may either become righteous converts and accept all the mitzvot or retain their statutes without adding or detracting from them
"
What about for someone that just wants to try it?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: johnshek on January 25, 2017, 02:50:38 AM
Ouch! Can anyone understand how this would look from a non-Jews perspective?
Common sense non-jews would probably recognize that they didn't believe there existed such a thing as shabbos.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 02:53:10 AM
Common sense non-jews would probably recognize that they didn't believe there existed such a thing as shabbos.
Actually there are many that do. Oprah did a show about it. Guess how many viewers she has?  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 25, 2017, 02:55:38 AM
What about for someone that just wants to try it?
Light a fire and blow it out 5 minutes into shabbos...

Know the famous joke about the guy who wanted to become Jewish?

Sometime into the learning process he spent a Shabbos with his Rabbi, shortly before the end of Shabbos the Rabbi comes over to him and reminds him that he's not allowed to keep the entire shabbos so he needs to do a "Melacha" (action forbidden on Shabbos)

He replies "Oh, Don't worry - I already took care of that, I carried outside"

The rabbi responds "But there is an Eruv"

He says back "Ha, I don't hold of the Eruv"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: johnshek on January 25, 2017, 02:57:49 AM
Actually there are many that do. Oprah did a show about it. Guess how many viewers she has?  :)
Sounds confusing. And since when does the amount of viewers speak about quality of the viewership or what they're viewing. Justin bieber has a billion views on his garbage too...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 25, 2017, 02:58:03 AM
What about for someone that just wants to try it?

There are ways to try it.  I believe one violation of a Shabbos prohibition at any time over Shabbos takes care of the issue.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 25, 2017, 03:00:20 AM
Light a fire and blow it out 5 minutes into shabbos...

To clarify, the lighting must be done after the onset of shabbos.  Why blow it out?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on January 25, 2017, 03:02:25 AM
To clarify, the lighting must be done after the onset of shabbos.  Why blow it out?
Why waste the candle no need to actually blow it out
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: johnshek on January 25, 2017, 03:03:08 AM
To clarify, the lighting must be done after the onset of shabbos.  Why blow it out?
Light shabbos licht and blow them out. Slightly ironic😕
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 03:21:54 AM
Lets make it all common sense non-Jews then.
How would you know?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChAiM'l on January 25, 2017, 05:44:14 AM
But that is the point. There needs to be a name that is instantly self defining rather than some hybrid Orthodox term that is murky and can be confused with full practicing Orthodox Jews. It would be much better if these groups didn't feel the need to use the term Orthodox at all but given the fact that they do use the term and that this tends to lead to "well if they say they are Orthodox why do they do xyz", the term Culturally Orthodox would eliminate this problem. This does not mean that it would have any religious significance from an orthodox perspective, it would just be a functionally descriptive term.

It's called Heterodoxy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on January 25, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
Whofff 19 pages about the Kushners.. A I care is if they had Gefilta fish and tomato dip Friday night in the WH

Apparently Ivanka makes an excellent cholent. Here's her recipe (family tradition, handed down from her shvigger :) ) Link: http://bit.ly/IvankasCholentRecipe
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on January 25, 2017, 10:19:07 AM
Apparently Ivanka makes an excellent cholent. Here's her recipe (family tradition, handed down from her shvigger :) ) Link: http://bit.ly/IvankasCholentRecipe

Not a very shabbos-friendly recipe...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 10:24:07 AM
Not a very shabbos-friendly recipe...
It sounds good.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Luvtotravel on January 25, 2017, 10:31:07 AM
Apparently Ivanka makes an excellent cholent. Here's her recipe (family tradition, handed down from her shvigger :) ) Link: http://bit.ly/IvankasCholentRecipe
no beans???
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 10:31:50 AM
no beans???
That's why it sounds good.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Luvtotravel on January 25, 2017, 10:33:47 AM
That's why it sounds good.  :)
you're cordially invited to come change your mind over a plate of our bean cholent
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 10:39:58 AM
you're cordially invited to come change your mind over a plate of our bean cholent
Any meat in it?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 10:41:20 AM
I'm with JTZ.
Bean-free cholent FTW.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 10:44:56 AM
If it has meat also I am game. Is it possible to have a cholent DO?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Luvtotravel on January 25, 2017, 10:45:38 AM
Any meat in it?
but of course
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 10:49:51 AM
but of course
I wish I could take everyone up on their offers. They are much appreciated!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Luvtotravel on January 25, 2017, 10:51:57 AM
I'm with JTZ.
Bean-free cholent FTW.
are you polish?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Amusch on January 25, 2017, 10:55:31 AM
Apparently Ivanka makes an excellent cholent. Here's her recipe (family tradition, handed down from her shvigger :) ) Link: http://bit.ly/IvankasCholentRecipe

Not sure what she means by "hold back on the salt for now" in directions. If she means a little salt now, and some later, then it may (according to some poskim) allow her to leave her prepped chopped onion overnight in the fridge. But if she means to add no salt, then she should not be leaving chopped onions overnight, thereby proving that her geirus was a sham.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 10:56:12 AM
are you polish?
Nope, just have a weak Ashkenazic digestive system.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 10:57:21 AM
Apparently Ivanka makes an excellent cholent. Here's her recipe (family tradition, handed down from her shvigger :) ) Link: http://bit.ly/IvankasCholentRecipe

Sounds like they eat this on Friday night, yeshiva bochurim!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 25, 2017, 10:58:14 AM
For the DDF slogans thread:

DDF: All discussion leads to cholent.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on January 25, 2017, 10:59:16 AM
Sounds like they eat this on Friday night, yeshiva bochurim!

Good point, I should have been Dan l'chaf zechus...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 25, 2017, 11:00:48 AM
JTZ we can do a cholent DO at Shallots. It'll have to be BYOC but I'll take care of that
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: cholent on January 25, 2017, 11:00:54 AM
are you polish?

Polish do bean cholent without potatoes.
Take it from the expert
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 11:01:29 AM
Nope, just have a weak Ashkenazic digestive system.

From all your TR where you eat lunch and dinner for a week in restaurants, I was thinking you must have something very strong.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 11:01:32 AM
Not sure what she means by "hold back on the salt for now" in directions. If she means a little salt now, and some later, then it may (according to some poskim) allow her to leave her prepped chopped onion overnight in the fridge. But if she means to add no salt, then she should not be leaving chopped onions overnight, thereby proving that her geirus was a sham.
You're not serious about calling her geirus a sham if she leaves onions overnight, are you?

The problematic parts of the recipe is not putting it up until the night, and adding salt to the pot in the morning, but the recipe is not geared only for Shabbos, or for Jews, for that matter, so although some halachic disclaimers would have been nice, I don't think this is a big deal.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: cholent on January 25, 2017, 11:02:30 AM
You're not serious about calling her geirus a sham if she leaves onions overnight, are you?

The problematic parts of the recipe is not putting it up until the night, and adding salt to the pot in the morning, but the recipe is not geared only for Shabbos, or for Jews, for that matter, so although some halachic disclaimers would have been nice, I don't think this is a big deal.
Come on, sarcastic font wasn't even needed for that one.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Luvtotravel on January 25, 2017, 11:02:31 AM
Polish do bean cholent without potatoes.
Take it from the expert
you're one username I'm not going to argue with in this area!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 11:02:50 AM
From all your TR where you eat lunch and dinner for a week in restaurants, I was thinking you must have something very strong.
Beans get to me for some reason.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: E R K on January 25, 2017, 11:03:32 AM
I think she may be leaving out the salt because the onion soup mix is salty.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: cholent on January 25, 2017, 11:04:07 AM
Beans get to me for some reason.

Gotta soak them longer, or add some baking soda. Or check out your yichus if you can't tolerate authentic cholent  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Amusch on January 25, 2017, 11:06:59 AM
You're not serious about calling her geirus a sham if she leaves onions overnight, are you?


Correct. Both here and in general.

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 11:07:51 AM
Polish do bean cholent without potatoes.
Take it from the expert
I am no expert on either but Pols are big on potatoes, no?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 11:08:36 AM
JTZ we can do a cholent DO at Shallots. It'll have to be BYOC but I'll take care of that
I am game but can we a few different types?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 25, 2017, 11:15:45 AM
I am game but can we a few different types?
Sure, but once its a whole chulent buffet, Shallots might not be the ideal place to do said DO
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 11:19:15 AM
Sure, but once its a whole chulent buffet, Shallots might not be the ideal place to do said DO
That's what I was thinking. Someone needs to host a cholent DO.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2017, 11:20:32 AM
I'm with JTZ.
Bean-free cholent FTW.

Cholent without beans is like Purim without Yom Kippur  :D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 11:22:14 AM
Cholent without beans is like Purim without Yom Kippur  :D
Spoken from the person who eats vegetarian cholent  ::)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 25, 2017, 11:25:27 AM
Spoken from the person who eats vegetarian cholent  ::)
He can invite my daughter.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 25, 2017, 11:28:28 AM
That's what I was thinking. Someone needs to host a cholent DO.  :)
We can make that happen
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 25, 2017, 11:34:34 AM
Cholent without beans is like Purim without Yom Kippur  :D

Wow. The troll level on this is at 11 out of 10 Trumps.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on January 25, 2017, 11:51:27 AM
The problematic parts of the recipe is not putting it up until the night, and adding salt to the pot in the morning, but the recipe is not geared only for Shabbos, or for Jews, for that matter, so although some halachic disclaimers would have been nice, I don't think this is a big deal.

A bigger deal than both of those is adding water and turning it to low in the morning but,

Sounds like they eat this on Friday night, yeshiva bochurim!

So
Good point, I should have been Dan l'chaf zechus...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shulem92 on January 25, 2017, 11:52:07 AM
Cholent without beans is like Purim without Yom Kippur  :D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on January 25, 2017, 11:56:21 AM
To bring this thread back on topic...

https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 25, 2017, 12:33:16 PM
The picture has beans.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on January 25, 2017, 12:46:27 PM
To bring this thread back on topic...

https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
Well said
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 01:04:39 PM
To bring this thread back on topic...

https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/

When someone is a celebrity (by choice), it is very important that we not justify their actions.
We are in a world that everything is viral. It has a huge impact on ppl and defiantly young people, struggling where to draw the line.
How many children will say she's frum and goes in a car and dress that way, it's fine.
I think but not sure that on the modern orthodox youngsters this can have a huge impact.

True but sad!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on January 25, 2017, 01:06:28 PM
I'm with JTZ.
Bean-free cholent FTW.

+1
It has barley and 3 strips of flanken. Delicious!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MC on January 25, 2017, 01:08:56 PM
But it has so much ketchup. Yuck.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 25, 2017, 01:10:19 PM
Maybe the recipe is like Trump's rhetoric - don't take it literally. The ketchup is just pandering to her base, what she's serious about is meat and potatoes.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on January 25, 2017, 01:12:42 PM
But it has so much ketchup. Yuck.

The recipe is from her mother-in-law. I'm sure that she's made several adjustments in recent years.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on January 25, 2017, 01:16:05 PM
When someone is a celebrity (by choice), it is very important that we not justify their actions.
We are in a world that everything is viral. It has a huge impact on ppl and defiantly young people, struggling where to draw the line.
How many children will say she's frum and goes in a car and dress that way, it's fine.
I think but not sure that on the modern orthodox youngsters this can have a huge impact.

True but sad!
No need to justify and no need to judge.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 01:20:14 PM
No need to justify and no need to judge.

Is there a need to say its not acceptable?  Without judging (if possible)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Amusch on January 25, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
Maybe the recipe is like Trump's rhetoric - don't take it literally. The ketchup is just pandering to her base, what she's serious about is meat and potatoes.

 :o
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 25, 2017, 01:25:38 PM
No need to justify and no need to judge.
No need to kvell with pride either.

[quote name="Redbull3" post=1659747 timestamp=1485222501]
http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html?m=1 (http://libibamizrach.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-miracle-that-is-ivanka-trump.html?m=1)
[/quote]
Quote
Let us celebrate this gift that Hashem has given us in having such attractive and prominent models of serious Jews in our time. 
Nebach
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 01:28:30 PM


Quote
Let us celebrate this gift that Hashem has given us in having such attractive and prominent models of serious Jews in our time.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 01:33:48 PM
No need to kvell with pride either.
Nebach
The OU article makes a good point about Koufax. Though to be fair he didn't claim to be Orthodox.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
A bigger deal than both of those is adding water and turning it to low in the morning but,

So
I didn't notice the turning it lower...

You can add hot water from the urn if you have a blech.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 02:03:25 PM
Is there a need to say its not acceptable?  Without judging (if possible)
Yes
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 02:04:42 PM
The OU article makes a good point about Koufax. Though to be fair he didn't claim to be Orthodox.
I always felt that Koufax made both a kiddush Hashem and a chillul Hashem.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 02:16:52 PM
I always felt that Koufax made both a kiddush Hashem and a chillul Hashem.
How so?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 02:21:56 PM
I didn't notice the turning it lower...

You can add hot water from the urn if you have a blech.

She's taking about erev shabbos / work day for Friday night dinner
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 02:24:03 PM
How so?

kiddush Hashem and chillul Hashem were debated here a long time ago. (with that troll)


Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on January 25, 2017, 02:32:03 PM
check out your yichus if you can't tolerate authentic cholent  ;)
Repost!

Is it very un-jewish of me that I just don't like cholent? I have had dozens of chulents in my life and I can count the ones I actually enjoyed on one hand. (well that felt good to get off my chest)

FTR if I knew that the Trumps only eat bean free cholent it would have made my voting decisions much easier.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on January 25, 2017, 02:59:36 PM
No need to kvell with pride either.
Nebach
And just to bring the point home, that blog is written by a former pulpit Rabbi of a major YI in NY. It's being published as an article this week in the QJL. I think it's extremely important to speak out against that point of you. Not to say that she's not Jewish, or that the Kushners are terrible Orthodox Jews, etc., but to stress the point that these people shouldn't be held up as role models for Torah Jews.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 03:13:41 PM
How so?
Every time he pitched on Shabbos, CH. When he didn't on YK, KH.

I think any time a Yid does a public aveirah, it's a CH, and a public mitzvah, a KH.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 25, 2017, 03:17:43 PM
Every time he pitched on Shabbos, CH. When he didn't on YK, KH.

I think any time a Yid does a public aveirah, it's a CH, and a public mitzvah, a KH.
It's a C"H when a Tinok Shenishba does an aveirah?

The entire world knows that SK didn't play in the WS on Y"K. That's something to be proud of.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 03:18:32 PM
She's taking about erev shabbos / work day for Friday night dinner
Clearly, it is a recipe for dinner. I don't think specifically for Fri. night.

I was treating it as being for Shabbos morning, not having read carefully.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 03:20:56 PM
It's a C"H when a Tinok Shenishba does an aveirah?

The entire world knows that SK didn't play in the WS on Y"K. That's something to be proud of.
To a much lesser degree than when an ffb does,  but yes.

I am accounting for the fact that this is not pure tinok shenishba, but a quasi tinok shenishba, about which poskim debated their status.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 25, 2017, 03:22:46 PM
It's a C"H when a Tinok Shenishba does an aveirah?

The entire world knows that SK didn't play in the WS on Y"K. That's something to be proud of.
Why wouldn't it be a C"H? Of course he would be equally a tinok shenishba on the C"H.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 25, 2017, 03:46:23 PM
Why wouldn't it be a C"H? Of course he would be equally a tinok shenishba on the C"H.
Yes. Also, it would be a lesser C"H, but a C"H nonetheless.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on January 25, 2017, 04:03:17 PM
Why wouldn't it be a C"H? Of course he would be equally a tinok shenishba on the C"H.
The mere fact that tinokos shenishbu exist, is a C"H, though there is only the נורא עלילה על בני אדם to "blame" for that one.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on January 25, 2017, 04:03:51 PM
I'm with JTZ.
Bean-free cholent FTW.
+1000
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on January 25, 2017, 05:32:38 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/can-jared-kusher-ivanka-trump-survive-the-white-house
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Welder on January 26, 2017, 04:26:18 AM
Is Ivanka Trump Jewish? In Israel, she has a trump card: https://apnews.com/295645cc20664b50abc9c06def138221
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on January 26, 2017, 11:19:01 AM
This is preposterous. Are you guys seriously sitting here debating whether someone else who claims to be Jewish genuinely is?
How can you possibly claim to have a conclusive answer without tasting her cholent?
I"YH next week I will follow the directions exactly and recreate her dish, I will then settle this debate.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 26, 2017, 11:21:16 AM
This is preposterous. Are you guys seriously sitting here debating whether someone else who claims to be Jewish genuinely is?
How can you possibly claim to have a conclusive answer without tasting her cholent?
I"YH next week I will follow the directions exactly and recreate her dish, I will then settle this debate.

So Ex Gingi is a goy?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on January 26, 2017, 11:34:09 AM
So Ex Gingi is a goy?
Im not sure how you got to that. But possibly.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: cholent on January 26, 2017, 11:35:02 AM
Im not sure how you got to that. But possibly.

Pareve cholent. Add him to the "investigate yichus" list together with Dan and JJ
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on January 26, 2017, 11:36:31 AM


Pareve cholent.

No such thing. Cholent has meat.
He makes a parve stew.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 26, 2017, 11:42:01 AM
This is preposterous. Are you guys seriously sitting here debating whether someone else who claims to be Jewish genuinely is?
How can you possibly claim to have a conclusive answer without tasting her cholent?
I"YH next week I will follow the directions exactly and recreate her dish, I will then settle this debate.
You can join JTZ and myself at our chulent DO
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: cholent on January 26, 2017, 11:48:01 AM

No such thing. Cholent has meat.
He makes a parve stew.

Exactly my point, although thank you for correcting the phrase
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on January 26, 2017, 11:56:54 AM
Parve cholent is an oxymoron, cholent comes from the ancient sanskrit word "chilling" which means just doing nothing and enjoying yourself, which as we all know can best be accomplished with some well spiced, slow-cooked meat.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chaimmayer on January 26, 2017, 12:12:58 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/can-jared-kusher-ivanka-trump-survive-the-white-house
How ironic!
We're sitting here debating whether he kept Shabbos or not and they are writing about the consequences of the fact that he did.
Well at least he didn't answer the phone over Shabbos.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on January 26, 2017, 01:52:16 PM
How ironic!
We're sitting here debating whether he kept Shabbos or not and they are writing about the consequences of the fact that he did.
Well at least he didn't answer the phone over Shabbos.
I'm sure he can get a heter.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 26, 2017, 03:39:01 PM
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/can-jared-kusher-ivanka-trump-survive-the-white-house

Even better
http://matzav.com/not-a-coincidence-trumps-media-troubles-surged-when-jared-kushner-was-observing-shabbos/

This deserves a crosspost for JTZ.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 27, 2017, 04:29:08 PM
Kosher place? http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/ (http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2017, 04:43:58 PM
Kosher place? http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/ (http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/)
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Z56 on January 28, 2017, 01:33:38 PM
Read this article

http://montrealjewishnews.com/?p=6668
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on January 28, 2017, 07:45:05 PM
Nothing to do with the Kushners, but an interesting comment I saw on Reddit, somewhat related to this thread:

"The liberal Jews say that they are promoting Judaism, but after it gets filtered through their BS, there is nothing left.
Belief in one God isn't even a prerequisite for their Judaism anymore.
Belief in God isn't even a prerequisite for their Judaism.
The Judaism they practice is no different than a Native American trying to get back to his roots by wearing an Indian costume from the costume shop.
They don't answer to God. They answer to their own intuition.
If you tell them, why is it wrong to kill someone, they won't say because God says so. They'll say because they feel it is. But where does that feeling come from? And what makes their feeling worth more than a killer who feels it's right to do so?"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on January 28, 2017, 07:51:16 PM
Kosher place? http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/ (http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/)
Really now?  We're going to be a frumkiet tabloid?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on January 28, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
Kosher place? http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/ (http://www.cultofmac.com/464389/tim-cook-spotted-eating-dinner-with-ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner/)
Also the irony over potentially comitting e very serious issur daraysa to let everyone they may have done something that most likely was an issur dirabanan
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on January 28, 2017, 08:15:42 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4166088/The-Kushners-break-bread-Team-Trump.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4166088/The-Kushners-break-bread-Team-Trump.html)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Eliyohu on January 28, 2017, 09:27:15 PM
http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/588d530100cad/VID-20170128-WA0041.mp4 (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/588d530100cad/VID-20170128-WA0041.mp4)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: theduke on January 29, 2017, 01:00:17 AM
Why would anyone call him "conservative". He is obviously a תינוק שנשבה and is growing in his yiddishkeit as he is learning. Who knows, he might even get you to daven daily with a minyan and have daily learning with him :)
like my father explained, the shul that he doesn't go to is orthodox...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 29, 2017, 03:58:24 AM
What does it say when almost all the attacks on the Kushner's are coming from their own?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on January 29, 2017, 04:06:18 AM
What does it say when almost all the attacks on the Kushner's are coming from their own?
Justified.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 29, 2017, 04:06:27 AM
What does it say when almost all the attacks on the Kushner's are coming from their own?
Would be strange for the Catholics to get involved in the nuances of Orthodox Judaism
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 29, 2017, 04:07:09 AM
Justified.
Would be strange for the Catholics to get involved in the nuances of Orthodox Judaism
...but what about all the anti-Semites?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on January 29, 2017, 04:10:31 AM
...but what about all the anti-Semites?
Because this is something that requires sense and anti-semitism usually lacks that.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 29, 2017, 08:21:23 AM
What does it say when almost all the attacks on the Kushner's are coming from their own?
That it bothers us when Judaism is presented in a false light.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on January 29, 2017, 09:46:32 AM
That it bothers us when Judaism is presented in a false light.
Please....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 29, 2017, 10:45:04 AM
Please....
If it doesn't bother you, you don't need to comment.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on January 29, 2017, 10:48:03 AM
If it doesn't bother you, you don't need to comment.
It bothers me that ppl are so  righteously up in arms over this when they are very likely comitting serious issuray doraysa in commenting and reporting on it
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 29, 2017, 12:54:13 PM
That it bothers us me when Judaism is presented in a false different light.
FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 29, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
FTFY
On what basis?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 29, 2017, 01:06:05 PM
On what basis?
Ask Cheesecake.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 29, 2017, 05:02:50 PM
Just saying,  this weekends EO,  which appears to have been done in some haste,  without initial clarity regarding green card holders etc.  was also put out Friday night and shabbos,  when the mashgiach wasn't available.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 29, 2017, 05:18:12 PM
Just saying,  this weekends EO,  which appears to have been done in some haste,  without initial clarity regarding green card holders etc.  was also put out Friday night and shabbos,  when the mashgiach wasn't available.
nor was his trusted lawyer Jason Dov
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 29, 2017, 07:31:07 PM
Just saying,  this weekends EO,  which appears to have been done in some haste,  without initial clarity regarding green card holders etc.  was also put out Friday night and shabbos,  when the mashgiach wasn't available.

(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/b174aba79a91cb49b031db7195b5f996.png)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on January 29, 2017, 07:34:04 PM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/b174aba79a91cb49b031db7195b5f996.png)

interesting. So if the Donald would observe parts of Shabbat, then things would be slightly calmer, more professional.
Let the official work begin each Monday.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aro123 on January 29, 2017, 07:46:08 PM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/b174aba79a91cb49b031db7195b5f996.png)
Maybe he can get a heter based on this. Its real pikuach nefesh
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 29, 2017, 07:46:23 PM
Comes to show you how much of a need there is for leniency in hilchos shabbos here
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 29, 2017, 08:15:13 PM
Maybe he can get a heter based on this.
If you can get one to basically go out partying this should be a piece of cake.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 30, 2017, 01:20:46 AM
Ask Cheesecake.
He's asking about your fix.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 30, 2017, 01:24:12 AM
It bothers me that ppl are so  righteously up in arms over this when they are very likely comitting serious issuray doraysa in commenting and reporting on it
You're claiming to know people's motivation? Or are you paskening that it's assur to point out when a widely reported "heter" is a misapplication of halachah?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 30, 2017, 06:23:18 AM
He's asking about your fix.
I fixed it for you not me.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Sport on January 30, 2017, 07:52:41 AM
Comes to show you how much of a need there is for leniency in hilchos shabbos here
Au contraire, if only Trump would also be observing shabbos these eos would never have been signed.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on January 30, 2017, 09:20:18 AM
If you can get one to basically go out partying this should be a piece of cake.  :)
Not really. It all depends on what exactly is prohibited. I'll take the liberty of writing my feelings on the topic and hope it'll go down well.

When a human being tells us "don't light a fire" he's human and doesn't necessarily express what he means. To be upright people we should assume, a. He doesn't want there to be a fire, not lit by you or by anyone else, b. He may want you to sit in the dark, etc.

When G-D tells us "don't light a fire" that's exactly what he means.

Now here it gets complicated. There are 2 things the Talmudic sages did. A, based on their divine intuition (רוח הקודש) they were able to interpret G-Ds commandments and explain what is intended. B, they created many rules so that we stay far away from transgressing any prohibition.

The second category, they have every right to say it doesn't apply in certain cases. Although some may call it a loophole, that's not really what it is.

For example, when Jared Kushner were to get a ride on Shabbos, he's not lighting a fire, he's not even having a fire lit for his cause. Joe Smith gets an annual pay check to drive for the secret service. The secret service has a year round responsibility to protect the first family. When the secret service decided that to protect the life of the first family while walking in the street is impossible and ask Joe Smith to drive a car (light a fire) he's doing it for his own good, not for anyone elses.

While you may say that they should've stayed home instead, if you think about how not necessarily is any prohibition being violated, in a situation when dealing with leaders of countries I can understand why many a Rabbi would permit it.

Editor's note: I'm no practising Rabbi and have no idea on what basis the heter was given, nor do I care, these are just some thoughts that crossed my mind.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 30, 2017, 09:27:50 AM
I fixed it for you not me.
Au contraire.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 30, 2017, 10:10:06 AM
Not really. It all depends on what exactly is prohibited. I'll take the liberty of writing my feelings on the topic and hope it'll go down well.

When a human being tells us "don't light a fire" he's human and doesn't necessarily express what he means. To be upright people we should assume, a. He doesn't want there to be a fire, not lit by you or by anyone else, b. He may want you to sit in the dark, etc.

When G-D tells us "don't light a fire" that's exactly what he means.

Now here it gets complicated. There are 2 things the Talmudic sages did. A, based on their divine intuition (רוח הקודש) they were able to interpret G-Ds commandments and explain what is intended. B, they created many rules so that we stay far away from transgressing any prohibition.

The second category, they have every right to say it doesn't apply in certain cases. Although some may call it a loophole, that's not really what it is.

For example, when Jared Kushner were to get a ride on Shabbos, he's not lighting a fire, he's not even having a fire lit for his cause. Joe Smith gets an annual pay check to drive for the secret service. The secret service has a year round responsibility to protect the first family. When the secret service decided that to protect the life of the first family while walking in the street is impossible and ask Joe Smith to drive a car (light a fire) he's doing it for his own good, not for anyone elses.

While you may say that they should've stayed home instead, if you think about how not necessarily is any prohibition being violated, in a situation when dealing with leaders of countries I can understand why many a Rabbi would permit it.

Editor's note: I'm no practising Rabbi and have no idea on what basis the heter was given, nor do I care, these are just some thoughts that crossed my mind.
Appreciate your view on this. I will make my view short and to the point.
"Kosher Switch"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 30, 2017, 10:17:08 AM
Appreciate your view on this. I will make my view short and to the point.
"Kosher Switch"
Would being driven to the hospital for a medical emergency on Shabbos be Kosher Switch?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 30, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
Would being driven to the hospital for a medical emergency on Shabbos be Kosher Switch?
According from what I have been told/learned here, no. Look we can go through all these scenarios but that will serve no useful purpose. I am not judging them. I am giving an outsiders personal view on this.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 30, 2017, 10:37:49 AM
According from what I have been told/learned here, no. Look we can go through all these scenarios but that will serve no useful purpose. I am not judging them. I am giving an outsiders personal view on this.
I'm just saying that there may be more exceptions that aren't a "loophole" which an outsider can accept (although I don't agree this one in particular).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 30, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
I'm just saying that there may be more exceptions that aren't a "loophole" which an outsider can accept (although I don't agree this one in particular).
For the inauguration I might be persuaded but I don't think so. For going out partying afterwards, Kosher Switch.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on January 30, 2017, 11:25:08 AM
one thread I'm happy to see go OT :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 30, 2017, 11:52:51 AM
For the inauguration I might be persuaded but I don't think so. For going out partying afterwards, Kosher Switch.  :)
I wasn't referring to this particular situation, I just meant in general.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on January 30, 2017, 12:45:15 PM
Appreciate your view on this. I will make my view short and to the point.
"Kosher Switch"
My response to kosher switch is the same as my response here.
G-D said don't light a fire and you're not. You may be causing a fire to be lit but G-D didn't say anything against that. I personally disagree with the kosher switch because גרמא is only permitted in certain situations but the idea would be the same.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on January 31, 2017, 02:31:43 PM
From Yahoo via?

Now, a new report says there was a good reason for the bad timing — the Ivanka and Kushner were unaware of the humanitarian crisis because of religious obligations.

According to Vanity Fair sources, the pair may have innocently taken to Instagram because as Orthodox Jews they would have been observing Shabbat from Friday night to Saturday evening. Removed from technology and work during that period, the Trump-Kushner family would have been unaware of POTUS’s executive order and the public outcry in response. A source noted to Vanity Fair that “Kushner and his wife were aware of the fallout from the executive order only in an oblique way until after sundown and the photograph was posted to social media.”

But here’s the thing: The Jewish Sabbath, or Shabbat, occurs from sundown on Friday evenings and ends at sundown on Saturday evening. And sundown this past Saturday, Jan. 28, was at 5:25 P.M. in Washington, D.C.

The executive order was signed at 4:42 pm on Jan. 27, 16 minutes before sundown, before Shabbat was over. The photo in question was shared just after midnight, at 12:07 A.M. on Sunday morning — meaning over seven hours had passed during which the family would have seemingly had the opportunity to catch up on major world events before sharing their selfie.

Another detail: The $5000 Carolina Herrera dress that Ivanka is wearing in the photo is a shoulder-baring style that’s counter to the norms of Orthodox standards of modesty to which practitioners generally adhere. (Ivanka also wore a one-shouldered jumpsuit to the third presidential debate back in October, so it’s clearly a style with which she is comfortable.)

It seems fair to reckon that either this was a newbie mistake, or that the couple might have known something about what was going on in the country which their family member now governs, opted to boast about their luxurious clothing and glamorous social life nonetheless.

Vanity Fair‘s sources suggest it’s most likely the former: Ivanka “feels terrible about the post, and does not want something like that to happen again,” said one.

Another noted that while the post was “idiotic” and belayed “naiveté in not understanding her surroundings or circumstances,” there’s a major difference between Ivanka and her father: “She can adjust her behavior accordingly, and she’s open to doing that.”
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 31, 2017, 03:02:48 PM
But here’s the thing: The Jewish Sabbath, or Shabbat, occurs from sundown on Friday evenings and ends at sundown on Saturday evening. And sundown this past Saturday, Jan. 28, was at 5:25 P.M. in Washington, D.C.

The executive order was signed at 4:42 pm on Jan. 27, 16 minutes before sundown, before Shabbat was over.
The photo in question was shared just after midnight, at 12:07 A.M. on Sunday morning — meaning over seven hours had passed during which the family would have seemingly had the opportunity to catch up on major world events before sharing their selfie.
Somebody forgot their calculator...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 31, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
We should have a poll to see how many that love Trump hates his daughter.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 31, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
We should have a poll to see how many that love Trump hates his daughter.
Hate? I don't think anyone here hates her.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on January 31, 2017, 03:55:32 PM
Hate? I don't think anyone here hates her.
Dislikes, phony, not a real Jew or what term should I use?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 31, 2017, 07:58:47 PM
Dislikes, phony, not a real Jew or what term should I use?
I assume some (not I) feel she's not a real Jew. That's a far cry from hating or even disliking.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on January 31, 2017, 08:01:44 PM
Dislikes, phony, not a real Jew or what term should I use?
Do you feel that anyone here hates just because you're not a real Jew?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on January 31, 2017, 10:44:14 PM
Dislikes, phony, not a real Jew or what term should I use?
You are very very far off base with this comment/assumption.



Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on January 31, 2017, 10:54:01 PM
You are very very far off base with this comment/assumption.
+1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Eliyohu on January 31, 2017, 11:17:04 PM


But here’s the thing: The Jewish Sabbath, or Shabbat, occurs from sundown on Friday evenings and ends at sundown on Saturday evening. And sundown this past Saturday, Jan. 28, was at 5:25 P.M. in Washington, D.C.

The executive order was signed at 4:42 pm on Jan. 27, 16 minutes before sundown, before Shabbat was over.

They got their info a bit wrong over here as well as that it was signed on Fri... but I was ROFL watching cnn discuss the whole theory that things go wrong over shabbos when Jared is not available  and they got into a whole hilarious discussion about  exactly when shabbos starts and of course the one guy who actually spent shabbos with Jared at a chabad has absolutely no clue what he's talking about...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 01, 2017, 12:20:19 AM
You are very very far off base with this comment/assumption.
What word would you use when most of this thread is about her. AFAIK all she has down is follow her Rabbi's advice/instructions.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on February 01, 2017, 01:01:20 AM
What word would you use when most of this thread is about her. AFAIK all she has down is follow her Rabbi's advice/instructions.
I think everyone here respects and perhaps even likes ivanka.  She is doing more or less what she was told and taught and sincerely.
The debate here is whether or not she was advised correctly by her rabbinic leadership,  and whether their actions were correct or valid. Also in general whether they are really religious.  And also we are voyeuristic
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on February 02, 2017, 01:20:53 PM
What word would you use when most of this thread is about her. AFAIK all she has down is follow her Rabbi's advice/instructions.
I just think that you are mixing together halachik opinion and personal feelings and that's simply not the case for what I think is a large majority of this thread.

I totally understand why if someone says she isn't Jewish you would take that as not liking her, but it's not. And neither is saying they feel she shouldn't be allowed in a car on shabbos.

Anyway I'm still waiting for Jared or Ivanka to RTM this thread as flaming :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 02, 2017, 04:30:56 PM
I just think that you are mixing together halachik opinion and personal feelings and that's simply not the case for what I think is a large majority of this thread.

I totally understand why if someone says she isn't Jewish you would take that as not liking her, but it's not. And neither is saying they feel she shouldn't be allowed in a car on shabbos.

Anyway I'm still waiting for Jared or Ivanka to RTM this thread as flaming :)
I am not the one mixing anything. If you have an issue with the way she dresses, not covering her hair, riding in a car on Shabbos, the way she dresses her kids among other things then go after her Rabbi or the conversion. Most of this thread is about her, not her Rabbi, Jared or the conversion.

I total understand why most want you make it about her.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 02, 2017, 06:10:07 PM
I am not the one mixing anything. If you have an issue with the way she dresses, not covering her hair, riding in a car on Shabbos, the way she dresses her kids among other things then go after her Rabbi or the conversion. Most of this thread is about her, not her Rabbi, Jared or the conversion.

I total understand why most want you make it about her.
All of those were discussed in the context of her conversion and her rabbi
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 02, 2017, 06:26:12 PM
Mods, please fix title of this thread.

The 'Kushners"? There's only one Kushner in that family. Her last name is Trump.
The thread title implies a very dangerous concept that was considered acceptable in the 1800s in which women were forced to change their maiden name to their husband's last name.

This is discriminatory, unacceptable and is not what we stand for. Women should have the right to choose how they want to be named. How about men change their last name after getting married.


“Human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights,” ~ Hillary Rodham
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on February 02, 2017, 06:45:55 PM
Mods, please fix title of this thread.

The 'Kushners"? There's only one Kushner in that family. Her last name is Trump.
The thread title implies a very dangerous concept that was considered acceptable in the 1800s in which women were forced to change their maiden name to their husband's last name.

This is discriminatory, unacceptable and is not what we stand for. Women should have the right to choose how they want to be named. How about men change their last name after getting married.


“Human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights,” ~ Hillary Rodham
Hey!
What's up?
וואס הערט זאך ביי אייך?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on February 02, 2017, 07:21:42 PM


~ Hillary Rodham
Yemach Shimah Vizichrah
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aro123 on February 02, 2017, 07:30:26 PM
Yemach Shimah Vizichrah
Thats why meshugener erased out her last name
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on February 02, 2017, 07:37:07 PM
Thats why meshugener erased out her last name
You missed the point.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on February 02, 2017, 08:21:15 PM
Mods, please fix title of this thread.

The 'Kushners"? There's only one Kushner in that family. Her last name is Trump.
The thread title implies a very dangerous concept that was considered acceptable in the 1800s in which women were forced to change their maiden name to their husband's last name.

This is discriminatory, unacceptable and is not what we stand for. Women should have the right to choose how they want to be named. How about men change their last name after getting married.


“Human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights,” ~ Hillary Rodham
As the saying goes: משוגע, משוגע, אבער שכל דארף מען האבן!

They have kids, and those kids are Kushners. So there's more than "one Kushner in that family".
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aro123 on February 02, 2017, 09:59:20 PM
You missed the point.
You missed the joke
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on February 03, 2017, 09:02:29 AM


Mods, please fix title of this thread.

The 'Kushners"? There's only one Kushner in that family. Her last name is Trump

We were discussing his mother's cholent also. That's Kushners.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on February 03, 2017, 09:16:30 AM

We were discussing his mother's cholent also. That's Kushners.
That's just gravy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 03, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
Yemach Shimah Vizichrah

Cursing in Hebrew doesn't make you look any better than cursing in English.

Not sure why the mods didn't delete your post.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on February 03, 2017, 11:01:38 AM
Cursing in Hebrew doesn't make you look any better than cursing in English.

Not sure why the mods didn't delete your post.
I'm sure you can figure out the difference
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on February 03, 2017, 02:49:34 PM
Cursing in Hebrew doesn't make you look any better than cursing in English.

Not sure why the mods didn't delete your post.

It's a hebrew phrase, it works better than "may her name and memory be erased"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on February 03, 2017, 02:54:47 PM
It's a hebrew phrase, it works better than "may her name and memory be erased"
It's still way over the top, and I'm no HRC supporter.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitz1000 on February 03, 2017, 03:00:41 PM
As the saying goes: משוגע, משוגע, אבער שכל דארף מען האבן!

They have kids, and those kids are Kushners. So there's more than "one Kushner in that family".
Also, I'm sure she's prouder than she's ever been of the Kushner name.

Doubt she ever dreamt that her Kushner husband would play a leading role in propelling her Trump father to the oval office.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: PlatinumGuy on February 04, 2017, 06:08:47 PM
Also, I'm sure she's prouder than she's ever been of the Kushner name.

Doubt she ever dreamt that her Kushner husband would play a leading role in propelling her Trump father to the oval office.
Kushners were always far wealthier than Trumps
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitz1000 on February 04, 2017, 07:30:44 PM
Kushners were always far wealthier than Trumps
But the Trump name was always more well known.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on February 05, 2017, 03:16:18 AM
But the Trump name was always more well known.
An empty pushka makes the most noise.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: george on February 05, 2017, 09:44:29 AM
Kushners were always far wealthier than Trumps
I'm,  last I checked, Charles Kushner was worth $500M, and Trump was worth $4.5B
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2017, 12:30:16 PM
Special mention of the Kushner Calming Effect
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on February 05, 2017, 12:45:20 PM
I'm,  last I checked, Charles Kushner was worth $500M, and Trump was worth $4.5B
Last you checked, eh? They each let you look in their wallets or something?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on February 05, 2017, 01:35:54 PM
Last you checked, eh? They each let you look in their wallets or something?
According to Forbes the family has at last 1.8 billion
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on February 05, 2017, 01:46:06 PM
According to Forbes the family has at last 1.8 billion
I'm aware. The point is that there's long been questions about how Trump himself, and even Forbes, have valued Trump. So at that point, who's to say just where he stands?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: efflpetzel on February 07, 2017, 12:03:51 PM
It's still way over the top, and I'm no HRC supporter.
+1,

Totally uncalled for
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ariIs on February 07, 2017, 06:12:38 PM
According to Forbes the family has at last 1.8 billion

Forbes is extremely unreliable for anyone whose holdings are not in publicly traded companies. They have no way of knowing the asset values and/or stakes of private firms, and just guesstimate a lot.
For Trump those values are even harder because of the value of his brand (which he likes to include in his net worth). That's very hard to estimate.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 08, 2017, 11:16:05 AM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/1943c485c0d0088a9e10e3bcc5ba0367.png)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Moshe123 on February 08, 2017, 11:24:44 AM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/1943c485c0d0088a9e10e3bcc5ba0367.png)

Horrible optics.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on February 08, 2017, 11:25:08 AM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/1943c485c0d0088a9e10e3bcc5ba0367.png)
He should tweet how shoes.com dropped his daughter too, and now they are bankrupt and shut down.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 08, 2017, 03:08:27 PM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/1943c485c0d0088a9e10e3bcc5ba0367.png)
He will get no sympathy from this Nordstrom crowd.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on February 08, 2017, 03:09:09 PM
He will get no sympathy from this Nordstrom crowd.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 08, 2017, 03:53:25 PM
My point was the second half of the tweet.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 10, 2017, 01:49:46 PM
This deserves a cross post here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/02/a_scientific_examination_of_what_trump_tweets_during_shabbat.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/02/a_scientific_examination_of_what_trump_tweets_during_shabbat.html)

Quote
But that isn’t science, so I conducted a poll of Slate employees to see if they agreed. Using a Google Form, I showed each participant Trump’s 15 most retweeted Shabbat tweets (http://slate-features.s3.amazonaws.com/features/trump_tweets/8962.png) and his 15 most retweeted non-Shabbat tweets (http://slate-features.s3.amazonaws.com/features/trump_tweets/1489.png), in a random order, and asked them to rate the craziness of each collection from 1 (“Not crazy at all”) to 5 (“Unbelievably crazy”). On average, the 39 participants rated the Shabbat tweets 4.49 and the non-Shabbat tweets 3.92, with a p-value of .002. That’s crazy!

Add a heaping measure of selection bias.....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on February 10, 2017, 03:47:15 PM
This deserves a cross post here:

Add a heaping measure of selection bias.....
Would be awesome to re-evaluate that data after a sample of a year+.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on February 11, 2017, 07:44:56 PM
Looks like they flew on AF1 on Shabbos, yet she didn't tweet till Motzai
830570791779581952[/tweet]] (http://[tweet)[/url]
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Welder on February 11, 2017, 09:04:54 PM
Looks like they flew on AF1 on Shabbos, yet she didn't tweet till Motzai
830570791779581952[/tweet]][/url]

They actually flew on Friday.
But since you seem to have forgotten, let me remind you that

 (http://[tweet)
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on February 11, 2017, 09:15:43 PM
They actually flew on Friday.
But since you seem to have forgotten, let me remind you that
+1 this thread should be deleted.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on February 11, 2017, 09:23:16 PM
They actually flew on Friday.
But since you seem to have forgotten, let me remind you that

My guess they flew on Friday, photographer sent her the picture on shabbos and she didn't see it tweet it till after shabbos
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: grodnoking on February 11, 2017, 09:23:21 PM
+1 this thread should be deleted.
+1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on February 12, 2017, 08:12:40 AM
+1 this thread should be deleted.
+1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on February 12, 2017, 08:19:33 AM
+1 this thread should be deleted.
+1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Matovu on February 12, 2017, 09:08:57 AM
+1
-1
Nobody was concerned with Joseph Lieberman.
We're all tolerant. It was said multiple times in this thread, that the issue is that they are letting the Orthodox label stand.
But we don't care how religious he is. Just don't label yourself with our label.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on February 12, 2017, 09:33:19 AM
-1
Nobody was concerned with Joseph Lieberman.
We're all tolerant. It was said multiple times in this thread, that the issue is that they are letting the Orthodox label stand.
But we don't care how religious he is. Just don't label yourself with our label.
So you care about labels more than anything else?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Matovu on February 12, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
So you care about labels more than anything else?
I care that other frum jews will get judged by their behavior.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on February 12, 2017, 09:40:50 AM
+1 this thread should be deleted.
+2

Let's make a poll
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Welder on February 12, 2017, 09:42:28 AM
I care that other frum jews will get judged by their behavior.
So far, the only ones who have been seen judging are other frum Jews.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on February 12, 2017, 09:42:33 AM
So you care about labels more than anything else?
Labels can be important.

I personally don't need to know about any alleged transgressions (some or all of which may be fake news) by this famimy, but yes, if someone labels themselves as Orthodox yet publicly violates halachah (I'm not saying they have), that creates a bigger chillul Hashem than a transgression of someone who doesn't claim to be.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 12, 2017, 09:43:04 AM
I care that other frum jews will get judged by their behavior.
You should be so lucky.  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on February 12, 2017, 09:43:19 AM
So far, the only ones who have been seen judging are other frum Jews.
There is a lot that we don't see.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 12, 2017, 09:45:10 AM
There is a lot that we don't see.
...and what would that be?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Matovu on February 12, 2017, 09:46:17 AM
So far, the only ones who have been seen judging are other frum Jews.
That's precisely the point.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Welder on February 12, 2017, 09:49:05 AM
That's precisely the point.
How so? You want them to stop labeling themselves as Orthodox so that other Frum Jews stop judging them?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on February 12, 2017, 10:03:18 AM
So far, the only ones who have been seen judging are other frum Jews people obsessed with (meaningless) labels.
FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Matovu on February 12, 2017, 10:12:50 AM
How so? You want them to stop labeling themselves as Orthodox so that other Frum Jews stop judging them?
Of course !!!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on February 12, 2017, 10:23:37 AM
...and what would that be?
People whose resolve to keep halachah is weakened by seeing Orthodox people violating it.
They aren't necessarily posting on DDF or anywhere.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 12, 2017, 10:25:45 AM
People whose resolve to keep halachah is weakened by seeing Orthodox people violating it.
Then those people have bigger problems. You can't shelter individuals their whole life. Your true dedication to your religion is only found out when it is tested.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on February 12, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
How so? You want them to stop labeling themselves as Orthodox so that other Frum Jews stop judging them?
Of course, keeping halachah properly is a better option... (again, general statement, I'm not up in the latest about the Kushners).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Cheesecake on February 12, 2017, 10:29:15 AM
Then those people have bigger problems. You can't shelter individuals their whole life. Your true dedication to your religion is only found out when it is tested.
That is true, but doesn't absolve anyone (myself very much included) of the responsibility to set a good example for others.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: efflpetzel on February 12, 2017, 10:32:04 AM
I care that other frum jews will get judged by their behavior.
Gimmi a break, pure nonsense
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitz1000 on February 12, 2017, 10:32:39 AM
+2

Let's make a poll
+2 but it doesn't seem like it's happening.

Unfollowing
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: efflpetzel on February 12, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Then those people have bigger problems. You can't shelter individuals their whole life. Your true dedication to your religion is only found out when it is tested.
Sad that JTZ is the one that makes the most sense in this thread
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 12, 2017, 10:33:39 AM
Unfollowing
+1
That's all anyone needs to do.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 12, 2017, 10:34:30 AM
Sad that JTZ is the one that makes the most sense in this thread
ROFL
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: A3 on February 12, 2017, 10:45:24 AM
So who's buying the Marlins..
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 12, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
So who's buying the Marlins..
Joshua?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 13, 2017, 04:53:32 PM
+1 this thread should be deleted.

"...shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Don't care about that?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 13, 2017, 05:01:53 PM
"...shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Don't care about that?
huh?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 13, 2017, 05:02:23 PM
huh?
Freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 13, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
Freedom of speech.
Who is making a law about this thread?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 13, 2017, 05:07:35 PM
Who is making a law about this thread?
Deleting this thread goes against the idea of freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 13, 2017, 05:12:30 PM
Deleting this thread goes against the idea of freedom of speech.
Just the opposite. To not allow a mod to delete it would be going against his freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 13, 2017, 05:15:06 PM
Just the opposite. To not allow a mod to delete it would be going against his freedom of speech.
With your logic, to not allow congress passing a law restricting freedom of speech is limiting Congress' freedom of speech.

Is the first amendment is in violation of the first amendment?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on February 13, 2017, 05:16:46 PM
With your logic, to not allow congress passing a law restricting freedom of speech is limiting Congress' freedom of speech.

Is the first amendment is in violation of the first amendment?
The difference is that one is a law and one is a private citizen's website.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 13, 2017, 05:18:29 PM
The difference is that one is a law and one is a private citizen's website.
Of course he can legally do whatever he/she wants on his/her own property.

I'm just saying it goes against the idea of freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on February 13, 2017, 05:21:55 PM
"...shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Don't care about that?
???
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on February 13, 2017, 05:25:28 PM
Of course he can legally do whatever he/she wants on his/her own property.

I'm just saying it goes against the idea of freedom of speech.

"Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction."
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: meshugener on February 13, 2017, 06:24:58 PM
"Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction."
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on February 13, 2017, 06:29:38 PM


Key word - government
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on February 13, 2017, 07:12:28 PM
Key word - government
Societal
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Super Speed on February 13, 2017, 09:37:24 PM
"...shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Don't care about that?
So you speak Lashon Hara because otherwise your first amendment rights are hindered?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Chuck2 on February 13, 2017, 10:34:51 PM
 "He told me that the only time he is silent is when he's at the Shabbos table of his daughter, between washing hands and blessing Hamotzi."
http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=44287 (http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=44287)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on February 14, 2017, 03:27:27 PM
"He told me that the only time he is silent is when he's at the Shabbos table of his daughter, between washing hands and blessing Hamotzi."
http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=44287 (http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=44287)

that would be funny if the White House institutes group-washing for Challah every day at noon. For 15 minutes each day.  8)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on February 14, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
"...shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Don't care about that?
Care more about the damage that can be caused by speaking negatively about a specific fellow Jew. I don't think shmiras halashon shtims with your implied interpretation of freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 14, 2017, 03:50:16 PM
shtims = concur?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Redbull3 on February 14, 2017, 03:51:37 PM
shtims = concur?
Yeah. Isn't there a thread for that?  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JTZ on February 14, 2017, 03:52:38 PM
Yeah. Isn't there a thread for that?  :P
Was easier and knew you would answer here.  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on February 14, 2017, 04:55:36 PM
shtims = concur?

more accurately "fits"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on February 17, 2017, 12:13:33 AM
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on February 17, 2017, 01:19:48 AM

Does this person claim to be an "unbiased" reporter of the type she wants Trump to ask questions of?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Iz on March 23, 2017, 01:14:57 AM
shtims = concur?
more accurately "fits"
Jibes.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on March 23, 2017, 08:34:15 AM
Jibes.

maskim
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Iz on March 23, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
maskim
You mean "concur"? ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on March 23, 2017, 08:41:26 AM
You mean "concur"? ;)
;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on April 13, 2017, 10:59:08 AM
Needs to be moved here

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=76224.msg1713992#msg1713992 (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=76224.msg1713992#msg1713992)
http://jewishinsider.com/11255/where-in-the-world-are-jared-ivanka-for-passover-canada/ (http://jewishinsider.com/11255/where-in-the-world-are-jared-ivanka-for-passover-canada/)

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chaimmayer on April 13, 2017, 04:29:38 PM
Needs to be moved here

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=76224.msg1713992#msg1713992 (http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=76224.msg1713992#msg1713992)
http://jewishinsider.com/11255/where-in-the-world-are-jared-ivanka-for-passover-canada/ (http://jewishinsider.com/11255/where-in-the-world-are-jared-ivanka-for-passover-canada/)
While the jewish insider seems to be a source for this article http://www.kikar.co.il/228685.html
The hebrew had more info including who some of the other distinguished guest are including :...
 ומדריך הטיולים דניאל הלף.

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ual902 on April 13, 2017, 09:24:10 PM
Is Dan and Ivanka at the same pesach program in whistler?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4409600/Ivanka-Trump-Jared-Kushner-Canada-Passover.html

Off they go: Her husband Jared Kushner was seen rushing out of the couple's DC home on Thursday morning with his assistant Avi Berkowitz, who was dressed in sweats
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/13/19/3F36FF8F00000578-4409600-image-a-100_1492107233180.jpg)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: m.m. on April 13, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Is Dan and Ivanka at the same pesach program in whistler?
Jared and Ivanka are here.
Any messages to pass on?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on April 13, 2017, 10:35:12 PM
Is Dan and Ivanka at the same pesach program in whistler?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4409600/Ivanka-Trump-Jared-Kushner-Canada-Passover.html

Off they go: Her husband Jared Kushner was seen rushing out of the couple's DC home on Thursday morning with his assistant Avi Berkowitz, who was dressed in sweats
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/13/19/3F36FF8F00000578-4409600-image-a-100_1492107233180.jpg)
Its my understanding that Dan was the main attraction so...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on April 16, 2017, 04:08:20 AM
Random woman came into the resort today and asked Ivanka for a selfie.
"Sorry, it's my Shabbos today"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on April 16, 2017, 06:58:02 AM
Random woman came into the resort today and asked Ivanka for a selfie.
"Sorry, it's my Shabbos today"
No security?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on April 16, 2017, 09:42:37 AM
Random woman came into the resort today and asked Ivanka for a selfie.
"Sorry, it's my Shabbos today"
great excuse. I'm sure she uses that one during the week too
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ual902 on April 16, 2017, 09:45:16 AM
So who is Avi Berkowitz? Is he DDF'er that now hangs out at Airforce one?!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: tov hashem on April 21, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
Dan! Did you got any connections with the kushners?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on April 21, 2017, 12:27:28 AM
Dan! Did you got any connections with the kushners?
How should he got it?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on April 21, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
How should he got it?
Well he done spent yuntif wit dem
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: LoLo on April 21, 2017, 02:24:20 AM
Random woman came into the resort today and asked Ivanka for a selfie.
"Sorry, it's my Shabbos today"
Hmm, wasn't there a report of them having their photos taken on Shabbos?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ual902 on April 21, 2017, 03:43:36 AM
Can we expect a trip report from Dan on Air Force one anytime soon?!!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on April 21, 2017, 09:39:47 AM
Hmm, wasn't there a report of them having their photos taken on Shabbos?
Fake news
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on April 21, 2017, 11:09:41 AM
Ivanka putting key to the White House in her challa this week. #greatagain
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on April 21, 2017, 11:16:55 AM
Fake news
+1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Davidthebest on April 30, 2017, 07:19:50 PM
WASHINGTON: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner's Pesach trip to a five-star Canadian ski resort cost the Secret Service at least $66,538.42.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: gubevo18 on April 30, 2017, 07:43:46 PM
WASHINGTON: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner's Pesach trip to a five-star Canadian ski resort cost the Secret Service at least $66,538.42.
I love all these numbers. It always costs a boatload of money to keep the first family safe.  Depending on who they are and what the did, is when the media decides to publish it.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2017, 07:46:14 PM
WASHINGTON: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner's Pesach trip to a five-star Canadian ski resort cost the Secret Service at least $66,538.42.
Sounds low to me.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Davidthebest on April 30, 2017, 08:00:43 PM
Sounds low to me.
http://www.nbcnews.com/card/ivanka-ski-trip-canada-resort-brings-big-secret-service-bill-n752726
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on April 30, 2017, 08:06:43 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/card/ivanka-ski-trip-canada-resort-brings-big-secret-service-bill-n752726
Most of the secret service didn't stay at the Four Seasons, so that would be even more.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: theduke on May 02, 2017, 09:33:24 AM
Sounds low to me.
This is just hotel cost for Secret Service, the pesach program cost the Kushners probably double that!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chaimmayer on May 02, 2017, 09:54:53 AM
I'm always looking for an interesting topic to give for a Shavuos shiur at 3:00 AM.  I was thinking this year of talking about karov lamalchus and what that would be a heter for Ivanka and Jared.  The are many interesting מראה מקומות here.
http://rygb.blogspot.com/2017/03/karov-lmalchus-guest-post-by-ben-rothke.html

Has anyone heard of any other sources?
My working title for now is:
A cushy position.  What halachik dispensations does the President's son-in-law have?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on May 02, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
I'm always looking for an interesting topic to give for a Shavuos shiur at 3:00 AM.  I was thinking this year of talking about karov lamalchus and what that would be a heter for Ivanka and Jared.  The are many interesting מראה מקומות here.
http://rygb.blogspot.com/2017/03/karov-lmalchus-guest-post-by-ben-rothke.html

Has anyone heard of any other sources?
My working title for now is:
A cushy position.  What halachik dispensations does the President's son-in-law have?
I know a guy who compiles all the ridiculous shavuos shiur titles he can find from shul newsletters every year. You'll be sure to be on his list with that one.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 02, 2017, 12:40:01 PM
I know a guy who compiles all the ridiculous shavuos shiur titles he can find from shul newsletters every year. You'll be sure to be on his list with that one.
Lol
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2017, 12:52:01 PM
This is just hotel cost for Secret Service, the pesach program cost the Kushners probably double that!
I'm not talking about the cost for the Kushners.

Most of the secret service didn't stay at the Four Seasons, so that would be even more.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 02, 2017, 12:57:19 PM
This is just hotel cost for Secret Service, the pesach program cost the Kushners probably double that!
Of course. THat is their prerogative to spend their own money. The point of the article was how much it cost the government. Missing from the article is the context of how much is the typical amount the government pays for First Family vacations. How much did the Obama family vacations cost? You will not find that on NBC just as you will not find this on FOX
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on May 02, 2017, 01:01:37 PM
Of course. THat is their prerogative to spend their own money. The point of the article was how much it cost the government. Missing from the article is the context of how much is the typical amount the government pays for First Family vacations. How much did the Obama family vacations cost? You will not find that on NBC just as you will not find this on FOX

I'm not sure the govt pays for the Kushners vacations, but they definitely pay to protect her on her vacations. After all it's their job to protect them wherever they go. Though Obama or Trump's personal vacation would definitely be completely free.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 02, 2017, 01:06:56 PM
I'm not sure the govt pays for the Kushners vacations, but they definitely pay to protect her on her vacations. After all it's their job to protect them wherever they go. Though Obama or Trump's personal vacation would definitely be completely free.
What is your source that the Govt pays for the President's vacations? I don't think it is true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-presidential-vacations/2014/08/15/2aa969c6-2311-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html?utm_term=.b86306a00170
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on May 02, 2017, 01:16:00 PM
What is your source that the Govt pays for the President's vacations? I don't think it is true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-presidential-vacations/2014/08/15/2aa969c6-2311-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html?utm_term=.b86306a00170

Interesting, so the President pays for lodging and food.
Didn't know that.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: theduke on May 02, 2017, 04:33:32 PM
Of course. THat is their prerogative to spend their own money. The point of the article was how much it cost the government. Missing from the article is the context of how much is the typical amount the government pays for First Family vacations. How much did the Obama family vacations cost? You will not find that on NBC just as you will not find this on FOX
Was just saying the article makes it sound much worse than it has to be, they would get protection wherever they go. If they stay home it also costs them and they do have a right to go wherever they choose and the govt is still required to provide the necessary protection. My original comment was meant to be a joke that the pesach program cost more...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ual902 on May 02, 2017, 11:39:02 PM
What Secret Service spent on Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's Whistler trip 


When Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner took their family to a ski resort in Whistler, Canada during Passover last month, U.S. Secret Service went, too, and the cost of their portion of the trip was over $65,000.

CBS News' Laura Stricker confirms, based on a review of federal purchase orders, that the U.S. Secret Service spent the following on Jared Kushner's and Ivanka Trump's family trip:

$6,884.03 for "multi-day ski passes for USSS personnel"
$59,654.39 for "hotel accommodations for USSS personnel"
The purchase orders to do not appear to show the travel costs incurred for Secret Service on the trip


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-secret-service-spent-on-jared-kushner-and-ivanka-trumps-whistler-trip/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on May 03, 2017, 01:35:54 AM
Interesting, so the President pays for lodging and food.
Didn't know that.

almost always
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/10/politics/presidential-debt/
http://mentalfloss.com/article/20681/who-pays-obama-familys-food
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuds70 on May 19, 2017, 02:05:57 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/18/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-air-force-one-shabbat-238586 (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/18/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-air-force-one-shabbat-238586)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 02:08:48 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/18/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-air-force-one-shabbat-238586 (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/18/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-air-force-one-shabbat-238586)
Can we put an end to this nonsense and face the fact they don't always observe the Sabbath!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on May 19, 2017, 02:09:27 AM
Can we put an end to this nonsense and face the fact they don't always observe the Sabbath!
+1 I was about to comment "not again"
Title: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on May 19, 2017, 02:09:41 AM
Can we put an end to this nonsense and face the fact they don't always observe the Sabbath!
+1, who cares anyway, what business is it of yours?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 02:11:43 AM
+1, who cares anyway, what business is it of yours?
IMHO it does a disservice to ones religion. No different than the meat dispensation given to Catholics for St Pattys day.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on May 19, 2017, 02:16:06 AM
IMHO it does a disservice to ones religion. No different than the meat dispensation given to Catholics for St Pattys day.
I was referring to the OP, not you, I agree with you.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on May 19, 2017, 02:24:32 AM
Can we put an end to this nonsense and face the fact they don't always observe the Sabbath!
Since when does flying on a plane directly violate the Sabbath?
ETA: Couldn't read the article on my phone. Commenting based on the headline in the URL.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on May 19, 2017, 02:35:59 AM
Can we put an end to this nonsense and face the fact they don't always observe the Sabbath!
She wrote in her book she does. Is she lying? (playing devil's advocate to a large degree, but I see why people have a problem with that).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 02:40:57 AM
She wrote in her book she does. Is she lying? (playing devil's advocate to a large degree, but I see why people have a problem with that).
I am not calling anyone a liar. I am giving you an outsiders point of view.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on May 19, 2017, 03:40:57 AM
Can we put an end to this nonsense and face the fact they don't always observe the Sabbath!

Traveling in a car or an airplane on the Sabbath when Halacha allows for it is not called  not observing the Sabbath.  Most here may question the Halachik dispensation they rely on but it is difficult to say catagorically that the don;t always observe the Sabbath.

Example:  When an Orthodox Jew, who is under normal circumstances enjoined from driving his car, does so in order to save a life, he is certainly said to be observing the Sabbath.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on May 19, 2017, 03:43:11 AM
Example:  When an Orthodox Jew, who is under normal circumstances enjoined from driving his car, does so in order to save a life, he is certainly said to be observing the Sabbath.
That is not true, he is breaking Shabbos, he's just allowed to do so, big difference from relying on a leniency that would allow you to travel in a car/plane on Shabbos.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on May 19, 2017, 03:54:04 AM
That is not true, he is breaking Shabbos, he's just allowed to do so, big difference

Debatable. He isn't legally breaking the laws of shabbos. The laws of shabbos do not exist in that case.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on May 19, 2017, 03:55:12 AM
Debatable. He isn't legally breaking the laws of shabbos. The laws of shabbos do not exist in that case.
Ok, granted, but you definitely can't say that he is observing Shabbos.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on May 19, 2017, 04:02:04 AM
Ok, granted, but you definitely can't say that he is observing Shabbos.
Speak to your LHR about that.
(Local Hashkafic Rabbi.)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mmgfarb on May 19, 2017, 04:02:39 AM
Speak to your LHR about that.
(Local Hashkafic Rabbi.)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on May 19, 2017, 04:10:43 AM
That is not true, he is breaking Shabbos, he's just allowed to do so, big difference from relying on a leniency that would allow you to travel in a car/plane on Shabbos.

When the OP said
they don't always observe the Sabbath!

he meant they are not really Shomer Shabbos all the time, in contrast to most of the members here.  You may not chose to rely on the heterim they got, nor would I like to. It's difficult, however, to say they are not always shomer shabbos.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 19, 2017, 04:19:01 AM
Ok, granted, but you definitely can't say that he is observing Shabbos.

The Observation of Shabbos is by making kiddush. He may not be observing the Issur Melacha
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: a mirrer on May 19, 2017, 04:22:33 AM
The Observation of Shabbos is by making kiddush. He may not be observing the Issur Melacha
is there a mekor for that
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 19, 2017, 04:28:33 AM
is there a mekor for that

זכור את יום השבת לקדשו
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 05:21:51 AM
Traveling in a car or an airplane on the Sabbath when Halacha allows for it is not called  not observing the Sabbath.  Most here may question the Halachik dispensation they rely on but it is difficult to say catagorically that the don;t always observe the Sabbath.

Example:  When an Orthodox Jew, who is under normal circumstances enjoined from driving his car, does so in order to save a life, he is certainly said to be observing the Sabbath.
My answer to this is the same as it was to the kosher switch. We all know how that turned out.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 19, 2017, 07:37:56 AM
I confess, I didn't read the article beyond skimming a couple of lines, but is there a case of a media outlet parsing the religious observance of the children of any other president?  Since when is that fair game?

Maybe I'm being out of line, but weren't some right wing types branded as extremist nut job conspiracy theorists for not taking Obama at his word that he is a practicing Christian? Do Jews not get the same courtesy?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 07:43:18 AM
I confess, I didn't read the article beyond skimming a couple of lines, but is there a case of a media outlet parsing the religious observance of the children of any other president?  Since when is that fair game?

Maybe I'm being out of line, but weren't some right wing types branded as extremist nut job conspiracy theorists for not taking Obama at his word that he is a practicing Christian? Do Jews not get the same courtesy?
Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts.  :)

Jews get the same hate as other religions.  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on May 19, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts.  :)

Jews get the same hate as other religions.  ;)

I think @Yehuda57's point isn't about children, it's about religion. Are there articles out there claiming that Nancy Pelosi isn't a "good Catholic" because she supports abortion?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 19, 2017, 08:27:42 AM
Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts.  :)

Jews get the same hate as other religions.  ;)
That's my point. Obama says "I'm a practicing Christian" and we are told to take him at his word. The kushners says "we're practicing Jews" and Politico gets into the details of their observance.

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 09:57:50 AM
I think @Yehuda57's point isn't about children, it's about religion. Are there articles out there claiming that Nancy Pelosi isn't a "good Catholic" because she supports abortion?
I was just answering the questions asked.

As far as Pelosi is concerned I do not believe she supports abortion (could be wrong) but supports the right to choose as is the position of many Catholics.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 10:00:20 AM
That's my point. Obama says "I'm a practicing Christian" and we are told to take him at his word. The kushners says "we're practicing Jews" and Politico gets into the details of their observance.

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).
If your point is that the media is biased then we agree.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on May 19, 2017, 10:01:27 AM



I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).

exactly what I was thinking but the politico is not what disturbs me, it's the frum need who are so eager to jump on these things, when it is so easy to see how you can assess the situation in a more favorable light. which I believe is one of the 613 as well....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 19, 2017, 10:04:12 AM
If your point is that the media is biased then we agree.

I'd need to double check the forum rules, but I believe saying "we agree" on a Friday is a violation.


exactly what I was thinking but the politico is not what disturbs me, it's the frum need who are so eager to jump on these things, when it is so easy to see how you can assess the situation in a more favorable light. which I believe is one of the 613 as well....

Well, criticizing a media outlet is different to passing judgement on individuals for passing judgement on individuals.  :D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 10:05:46 AM
I'd need to double check the forum rules, but I believe saying "we agree" on a Friday is a violation.
That's to get you to lower your guard down before I lower the BOOM!  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 19, 2017, 10:17:34 AM
That's to get you to lower your guard down before I lower the BOOM!  :P

Are you lowering a boom, or merely allowing me the choice of being boomed?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 19, 2017, 10:28:33 AM
@ChaimMoskowitz Just to be clear if a Jew is a Doctor for example and he gets called in for emergency surgery he has to do the Torah requires him to go on shabbos. Just making sure you understand the difference between a quasi-heter like the kosher switch, a real heter, and something that is actually halachikly required like breaking shabbos to save a life.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
@ChaimMoskowitz Just to be clear if a Jew is a Doctor for example and he gets called in for emergency surgery he has to do the Torah requires him to go on shabbos. Just making sure you understand the difference between a quasi-heter like the kosher switch, a real heter, and something that is actually halachikly required like breaking shabbos to save a life.
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on May 19, 2017, 10:33:10 AM
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
Sounds right. Although in this case, Trump is a non factor
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on May 19, 2017, 10:39:00 AM
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
As with anything one asks a Rabbi, the person asking formulates the question. I'm sure they didn't say, we're going to watch my father on this trip. I'm sure they painted themselves as indispensable, whether that's true or not. Depending on the relationship, it's not necessarily the Rabbi's place to tell them it's not allowed because you're not indispensable to the process. He may phrase it as, it's allowed if you are indispensable, etc.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 10:42:53 AM
As with anything one asks a Rabbi, the person asking formulates the question. I'm sure they didn't say, we're going to watch my father on this trip. I'm sure they painted themselves as indispensable, whether that's true or not. Depending on the relationship, it's not necessarily the Rabbi's place to tell them it's not allowed because you're not indispensable to the process. He may phrase it as, it's allowed if you are indispensable, etc.
Not going to second guess any Rabbi but I am also standing by my Kosher switch statement.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 19, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
Right. Ok. I am sure that many Rabbi's would agree with you. But then it comes down to the more grey are of like skyguy918 said of how you ask the question.

What if there are multiple nurses available but the Dr. works better with a specific nurse. If there is a 1% chance of the Dr. getting better results with that nurse there, probably a good chance that the Rabbi would also allow her to break shabbos. If US relations with Saudi Arabia would be even a little better or they are willing to share even a bit more intelligence for work more with Israel, if Ivanka and Jared are in attendance representing Jews in general I can see some Rabbis giving them a heter to go.

ETA: Think of a Rabbi deciding if a medical issue is life threatening, he will almost always rely on a Doctors opinion. But even Dr's will argue whether something is life threatening or not, so in many cases there are grey areas and how you ask makes a difference.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 10:49:28 AM
Even on a Friday I am not going to get dragged into this. You all make valid points but you are not teaching this old dog new tricks. Kosher Switch!  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 19, 2017, 10:53:41 AM
Terrible chillul hashem and chillul shabbos.

We would be much better off if they didn't flaunt the "fact" that they are Jewish and frum.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 19, 2017, 10:56:29 AM
Terrible chillul hashem and chillul shabbos.

We would be much better off if they didn't flaunt the "fact" that they are Jewish and frum.
Just jealous you can't get on airforce one :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 19, 2017, 10:56:55 AM
Even on a Friday I am not going to get dragged into this. You all make valid points but you are not teaching this old dog new tricks. Kosher Switch!  :P
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ADG on May 19, 2017, 10:57:29 AM
CM speaks for me
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2017, 11:03:25 AM
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 11:04:27 AM
We would be much better off if they didn't flaunt the "fact" that they are Jewish and frum.
How are they flaunting it? Or by they do you mean Trump?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 19, 2017, 02:13:17 PM
Guys we all know that this "Rabbi" isn't someone many of us would rely upon even for Beitza b'kutcha, but we are not dealing with talmidie chachomim asking the shailo. They certainly relied on this rabbi.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 19, 2017, 02:19:43 PM
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
-1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: sky121 on May 19, 2017, 02:31:36 PM
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/its-not-your-concern/
Great article
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 05:10:03 PM
It seems AP isn't jumping on the hate train.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ivanka-trump-will-take-part-in-presidential-trip/ar-BBBiMUS
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on May 19, 2017, 06:16:23 PM
זכור את יום השבת לקדשו
זכור ושמור בדבור אחד?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on May 19, 2017, 06:28:38 PM
Jared named as "person of interest" in Russia probe.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 19, 2017, 06:34:15 PM
Jared named as "person of interest" in Russia probe.
Would have never guessed him.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on May 19, 2017, 06:34:52 PM
Would have never guessed him.
Always picking on the Jewish guy
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on May 19, 2017, 06:38:50 PM
Jared named as "person of interest" in Russia probe.
Here's the source:
https://mobile.twitter.com/yashar/status/865659133969575936

I doubt it. Let's see.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on May 19, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Jared named as "person of interest" in Russia probe.

See this thread, for starters:
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: theduke on May 22, 2017, 09:40:01 AM
Just to keep this thread going.
 http://www.timesofisrael.com/ivankas-rabbi-said-to-deny-permitting-shabbat-travel/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on May 22, 2017, 09:52:03 AM


Just to keep this thread going.


Don't do us any favors.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on May 22, 2017, 10:00:54 AM
Just to keep this thread going.
 http://www.timesofisrael.com/ivankas-rabbi-said-to-deny-permitting-shabbat-travel/
that's the biggest joke, i'll bet they've had nothing to do with him since he didn;t show up in CLE for the convention
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 22, 2017, 11:45:06 AM
It is interesting she dresses more modest in Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on May 22, 2017, 11:46:07 AM
It is interesting she dresses more modest in Saudi Arabia.
Decapitation is more persuasive than a lightning bolt
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on May 22, 2017, 12:48:59 PM
It is interesting she dresses more modest in Saudi Arabia.
And she wore some type of yarmulka at the kotel. She respects all religions. :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitrap on May 22, 2017, 12:50:35 PM
It is interesting she dresses more modest in Saudi Arabia.
Funny. I thought it was Monday today
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 22, 2017, 12:59:02 PM
Funny. I thought it was Monday today
Friday was a dud.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 24, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Ivanka covers her hair when meeting the Pope. At least she has some priorities right.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on May 24, 2017, 08:47:56 AM
Ivanka covers her hair when meeting the Pope. At least she has some priorities right.
Who gets to decide who should wear black & who white ?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on May 24, 2017, 09:19:49 AM
Ivanka covers her hair when meeting the Pope. At least she has some priorities right.
If that's considered covering your hair then no thanks, you can keep that honor.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 24, 2017, 09:47:58 AM
If that's considered covering your hair then no thanks, you can keep that honor.
I don't think you have to worry about having that honor.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 24, 2017, 08:09:40 PM
Who gets to decide who should wear black & who white ?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/whats-hot/heres-why-melania-trump-wore-black-to-meet-the-pope/ar-BBBunQ1?li=BBnbfcL
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on May 25, 2017, 11:13:15 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539878/Ivanka-Jared-s-Roman-date-night.html

Not sure why it's assumed that they are 'observant'.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: koplonko on May 25, 2017, 11:26:00 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539878/Ivanka-Jared-s-Roman-date-night.html

Not sure why it's assumed that they are 'observant'.
Cholov Stam...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on May 25, 2017, 11:32:07 PM
Cholov Stam...
restaurant serves meat tho...I believe
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Baruch on May 25, 2017, 11:44:26 PM
"The couple drank Barolo"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on May 26, 2017, 12:29:38 AM
"The couple drank Barolo"

"They ordered pizza margherita, scampi, cacio e pepe pasta and bruschetta
The couple drank Barolo and were joined by an entourage of 12 for the evening"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Baruch on May 26, 2017, 12:35:18 AM
"They ordered pizza margherita, scampi, cacio e pepe pasta and bruschetta
The couple drank Barolo and were joined by an entourage of 12 for the evening"
My point was that Barolo was probably yayin nesech
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on May 26, 2017, 01:18:06 AM
My point was that Barolo was probably stam yeinam

FTFY
You could have mentioned the scampi which is a lot worse.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 26, 2017, 07:36:45 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/3372996017e7f35e20b60d25857a930d.jpg)

He has a thing for shertz hamayim. It's not the first time either.

Can we just put a fork in this already?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 26, 2017, 07:48:06 AM
All the food was KOSHER!!! It was blessed by a Cardinal first. We all know Kosher means being blessed.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: george on May 26, 2017, 07:49:06 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/3372996017e7f35e20b60d25857a930d.jpg)

He has a thing for shertz hamayim. It's not the first time either.

Can we just put a fork in this already?
Creepy and disturbing. The amount of energy spent investigating and discussing the level of religious observance of a fellow Jew.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 08:36:53 AM
FTFY
You could have mentioned the scampi which is a lot worse.
They had 12 people with them and the article says what everyone ordered. It's like a frum guy that goes to a business meeting in a treif restaurant, is he assumed to eat what everyone else ordered?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: moish on May 26, 2017, 08:43:45 AM
In the article itself it makes no mention of them eating scampi
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 26, 2017, 08:45:54 AM
Cholov Stam...
Bishul akum
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2017, 10:40:42 AM
Bishul akum
Gi'ulei nochrim.

Let's dispense with the idea that they are "fully observant" THey clearly do not keep kosher out of the home. Now what?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 10:41:28 AM
THey clearly do not keep kosher out of the home.
Why's that?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on May 26, 2017, 10:47:01 AM
Creepy and disturbing. The amount of energy spent investigating and discussing the level of religious observance of a fellow Jew.
+10000000000000000 i keep saying it over and over statements on this thread violate more issuray doraysa and are a bigger chilul hashem then whatever the Kushners are doing or not doing
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2017, 10:47:43 AM
Why's that?
This isn't the first time they publicly went to a non-kosher restaurant.Nothing that you or I can do about it right now.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Welder on May 26, 2017, 10:48:01 AM
Gi'ulei nochrim.

Let's dispense with the idea that they are "fully observant" THey clearly do not keep kosher out of the home. Now what?

Let’s dispense with the notion that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on May 26, 2017, 11:09:18 AM
Gi'ulei nochrim.

Let's dispense with the idea that they are "fully observant" THey clearly do not keep kosher out of the home. Now what?
Question if they are a mumar leteavon or lehachis? Let's discuss.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 11:16:01 AM
This isn't the first time they publicly went to a non-kosher restaurant.Nothing that you or I can do about it right now.
Many frum people go to non-kosher restarunts and don't eat more than a salad or have their own food there.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2017, 11:19:39 AM
Many frum people go to non-kosher restarunts and don't eat more than a salad or have their own food there.
THye have publicly tweeted about eating shrimp/shellfish/the like and having gone to such places on their own. Also, they are in the position to choose the location in most cases such as this one. Salads are in many cases just as assur with treife knives used to cut onions, wine vinegar and more.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 26, 2017, 11:24:19 AM
All comments should be censored unless from a goy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on May 26, 2017, 11:32:44 AM
THye have publicly tweeted about eating shrimp/shellfish/the like and having gone to such places on their own. Also, they are in the position to choose the location in most cases such as this one. Salads are in many cases just as assur with treife knives used to cut onions, wine vinegar and more.
I'm 100% confident they got a rabbinic dispensation each time. How dare you call them non religious while you spew lashon hora..............
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuds70 on May 26, 2017, 11:32:52 AM
THye have publicly tweeted about eating shrimp/shellfish/the like and having gone to such places on their own. Also, they are in the position to choose the location in most cases such as this one. Salads are in many cases just as assur with treife knives used to cut onions, wine vinegar and more.
Checking for insects...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: moish on May 26, 2017, 11:42:04 AM
+10000000000000000 i keep saying it over and over statements on this thread violate more issuray doraysa and are a bigger chilul hashem then whatever the Kushners are doing or not doing
Thats quite an accusation. Please elaborate
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on May 26, 2017, 12:09:13 PM
http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2017/05/turx-why-jared-kushner-and-ivanka-trump.html

Any dentists on the forum?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: beeweegee on May 26, 2017, 12:19:31 PM
Let’s dispense with the notion that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
This is exactly what went through my mind too. 😂😂
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on May 26, 2017, 12:54:10 PM
I'm 100% confident they got a rabbinic dispensation each time. How dare you call them non religious while you spew lashon hora..............
 8) 8) 8)
I got a heter from his rabbi
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuneeq on May 26, 2017, 01:06:58 PM
They had 12 people with them and the article says what everyone ordered. It's like a frum guy that goes to a business meeting in a treif restaurant, is he assumed to eat what everyone else ordered?

I honestly don't care one way or another about what they did (I'm fine with them trying to be as religious as they can be with their background), but the articles mention what each one specifically ordered. I'm not trying offend, but let's not pretend either. Trying to cover it up just prompts people to prove you wrong, so let's just ignore it and move on.

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elya on May 26, 2017, 01:08:19 PM
http://matzav.com/op-ed-jared-and-ivanka-an-embarrassment-to-judaism/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on May 26, 2017, 01:19:37 PM
http://matzav.com/op-ed-jared-and-ivanka-an-embarrassment-to-judaism/
Idi@T. It would surely make great JS popcorn material but it's ridiculous to publish this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 01:21:53 PM
I honestly don't care one way or another about what they did (I'm fine with them trying to be as religious as they can be with their background), but the articles mention what each one specifically ordered. I'm not trying offend, but let's not pretend either. Trying to cover it up just prompts people to prove you wrong, so let's just ignore it and move on.


Nothing wrong with being proven wrong. And someone Aygart said they post about eating sea food on twitter, if that's the case it is pretty bad to say they are orthodox publicly as well.

But the article itself does say would they ordered and that doesn't include scampi in this case...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on May 26, 2017, 01:22:24 PM
The big discussion hear is that they claim they are orthodox, if not that why aren't people discussing Adam Sandler or Mike Bloomberg ect: but where did they say that they are orthodox?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 01:24:51 PM
Idi@T. It would surely make great JS popcorn material but it's ridiculous to publish this kind of stuff.
The more they proclaim to the world that they are orthodox and the more they post things that are against the very basis of orthodoxy the more the OU article about not being our business is proven wrong.

I had many non-religious friends on Facebook posting how even in orthodox Judaism heterim have a price, and how it's the same as any other religion where the rich can do what they like... I always felt frumkeit was special that even the rich don't get to go against torah, and here I am reading on FB how the most public orthodox couple are doing just the opposite.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on May 26, 2017, 01:36:10 PM
I recently read the Joe Liberman specifically referred to  himself as "observant" not "Orthodox" in order to avoid this type of thing.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 01:54:39 PM
I recently read the Joe Liberman specifically referred to  himself as "observant" not "Orthodox" in order to avoid this type of thing.
Smart
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on May 26, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
The more they proclaim to the world that they are orthodox and the more they post things that are against the very basis of orthodoxy the more the OU article about not being our business is proven wrong.

I had many non-religious friends on Facebook posting how even in orthodox Judaism heterim have a price, and how it's the same as any other religion where the rich can do what they like... I always felt frumkeit was special that even the rich don't get to go against torah, and here I am reading on FB how the most public orthodox couple are doing just the opposite.
Haven't got such comments at my hedge fund. We have plenty of frum (very rich) folks and the population understands that for whatever reason Jared+Ivanka are the exception not the rule.

In either case, the title is x100 more provocative than the simple point you want him to convey. Don't be fooled by their supposed claim to be orthodox.

Not worth getting under JK's skin. Next time Dan pm's him to have DoT reinstate Emirates tickets, he may not be so helpful 8).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 02:14:35 PM
Haven't got such comments at my hedge fund. We have plenty of frum (very rich) folks and the population understands that for whatever reason Jared+Ivanka are the exception not the rule.

In either case, the title is x100 more provocative than the simple point you want him to convey. Don't be fooled by their supposed claim to be orthodox.

Not worth getting under JK's skin. Next time Dan pm's him to have DoT reinstate Emirates tickets, he may not be so helpful 8).
Would you feel different if the people you know did feel as I explained?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on May 26, 2017, 02:21:24 PM
Would you feel different if the people you know did feel as I explained?
I already agreed to that.

Do you agree that he could have easily made his point in a rational manner and left the "chillul-hashem/embarrassment" rhetoric for Barclays Center, June 11th (http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2017/05/giyus-asifa-to-take-place-june-11-at.html)?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on May 26, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
I already agreed to that.

Do you agree that he could have easily made his point in a rational manner and left the "chillul-hashem/embarrassment" rhetoric for Barclays Center, June 11th (http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2017/05/giyus-asifa-to-take-place-june-11-at.html)?
I didn't read the article that closely, but obviously he's writing to be sensational.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: koplonko on May 26, 2017, 02:28:25 PM
Comment from the matzav article:
Quote
Dear author.
You made the mistake that many other people made. I’ve never seen an interview where Jared or Ivanka have claimed to be Shomer Torah Umitzvos.
She did once say that she likes Shabbos because of the gashmiyus aspects (peace and quiet, family time etc)
She does light Menorah (although she does it within her house, not by the window and uses candles)
He is never seen in public wearing a yarmulkah. Even during the Israel trip, although he did have one by the kosel.
Basically, no one actually thinks they are Orthodox, besides for Orthodox Jews.
Sadly they are like most American Jews (actually the vast majority) who have little connection to Judaism.
They do keep a handful of mitzvos maybe, but no one thinks they are Frum.
As far as her Geirus is concerned, that’s a shailoh for a Rav.
But no one should think that these are standard Frum family who are looking to buy a house in the middle of Flatbush.
Sadly, far from it. 

I kinda agree. I think the "frum velt" were the ones that got all excited and advertised that אחות לנו בבית המלך, and are now feeling duped
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 26, 2017, 02:35:48 PM
Comment from the matzav article:
I kinda agree. I think the "frum velt" were the ones that got all excited and advertised that אחות לנו בבית המלך, and are now feeling duped
The problem is the very public news articles about their special dispensations and some comedians disguised as reporters who call Trump a zeidy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on May 26, 2017, 02:45:42 PM
I recently read the Joe Liberman specifically referred to  himself as "observant" not "Orthodox" in order to avoid this type of thing.
I think Joe has a son in law who is really frum, IIRC 15-20 years ago I was with him in a hotel and is son in law was with a Gemura.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yitzgar on May 26, 2017, 03:13:49 PM
The problem is the very public news articles about their special dispensations and some comedians disguised as reporters who call Trump a zeidy.
Absolutely
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on May 28, 2017, 01:44:46 AM
Let’s dispense with the notion that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
Hilarious. That line will live in infamy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 28, 2017, 05:29:51 PM
It seems the least of Jared's problems is keeping Kosher.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on May 28, 2017, 06:14:41 PM
Comment from the matzav article:


When did looking to buy a house in the middle of Flatbush become a yardstick for how Orthodox one is?  I must be Reform.

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 30, 2017, 09:48:57 AM
It seems the least of Jared's problems is keeping Kosher.  :)
The battle of the sources...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/29/jared-kushner-didnt-suggest-russian-communications-channel-in-meeting-source-says.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 30, 2017, 01:13:40 PM
Special for the Yom TOv meal.....
http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/30/former-nh-gov-calls-out-cnn-how-much-crow-are-you-going-to-eat/



And of course two different perspectives of the interview

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/how-much-crow-are-you-going-to-eat-john-sununu-owns-cnns-camerota-on-cnn/
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/cnns-alisyn-camerota-fights-back-laughter-as-gop-guest-melts-down-over-trump-russia-scandal/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 30, 2017, 01:48:03 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/how-much-crow-are-you-going-to-eat-john-sununu-owns-cnns-camerota-on-cnn/
Can I get a royalty on this crow?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on May 30, 2017, 02:40:14 PM
Fine. I gave you a like.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Malachi on May 30, 2017, 03:44:15 PM
Special for the Yom TOv meal.....
http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/30/former-nh-gov-calls-out-cnn-how-much-crow-are-you-going-to-eat/



And of course two different perspectives of the interview

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/how-much-crow-are-you-going-to-eat-john-sununu-owns-cnns-camerota-on-cnn/
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/cnns-alisyn-camerota-fights-back-laughter-as-gop-guest-melts-down-over-trump-russia-scandal/
Epic!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on June 04, 2017, 11:30:51 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/style/ivanka-trump-named-powerful-jewish-woman-america-twitter-erupts-150106867.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 04, 2017, 11:50:57 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/style/ivanka-trump-named-powerful-jewish-woman-america-twitter-erupts-150106867.html
At least they didn't say the most beautiful Jewish women in america.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Iz on June 04, 2017, 03:33:20 PM
At least they didn't say the most beautiful Jewish women in america.  :)
How many are there? :o
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on June 14, 2017, 01:48:40 AM
Very sad:
 Ivanka and Jared don’t let Sabbath get in the way of golf: http://nypost.com/2017/06/14/ivanka-and-jared-dont-let-sabbath-get-in-the-way-of-golf/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on June 14, 2017, 02:20:22 AM
Very sad:
 Ivanka and Jared don’t let Sabbath get in the way of golf: http://nypost.com/2017/06/14/ivanka-and-jared-dont-let-sabbath-get-in-the-way-of-golf/
It makes you wonder...

"The Rabbinical Assembly, part of Judaism’s Conservative movement which is less strict than the Orthodox tradition embraced by Jared and Ivanka, ruled against Sabbath golf in 2015 — because golfers can create divots on the fairway.

“Both the digging and the repair of the hole . . . constitute melakhot [forbidden work],” according to the ruling."
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on June 14, 2017, 08:05:36 AM
It makes you wonder...

"The Rabbinical Assembly, part of Judaism’s Conservative movement which is less strict than the Orthodox tradition embraced by Jared and Ivanka, ruled against Sabbath golf in 2015 — because golfers can create divots on the fairway.

“Both the digging and the repair of the hole . . . constitute melakhot [forbidden work],” according to the ruling."
I wonder what the orthodox ruling is.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 08:06:59 AM
I wonder what the orthodox ruling is.
You can play as long as you don't make divots.  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on June 14, 2017, 08:33:38 AM
You can play as long as you don't make divots. 
You can't drive on Shabbos
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on June 14, 2017, 08:47:23 AM
At worst, psik reisha d'lo nicha lei. Probably not psik reisha, just davar she'eino miskaven.
Title: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Tuna Baygel on June 14, 2017, 08:57:32 AM
Everyone please relax

As a tikun for this chillul shabbos that everyone here is so worried about

Next time you see a kid who's father is and always was 100 percent frum and is smoking a joint on shabbos while texting, give a smile
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on June 14, 2017, 08:58:45 AM
I'm guessing the golf course is fenced making it a rh"y
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: real-brisker on June 14, 2017, 09:01:20 AM
Cut the non-sense. They aren't frum. Period.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on June 14, 2017, 09:03:41 AM
Cut the non-sense. They aren't frum. Period.
The whole problem is, is that they claim they are.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on June 14, 2017, 09:04:29 AM
Cut the non-sense. They aren't frum. Period.
Guessing you don't have much exposure to modern orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 09:05:37 AM
Next time you see a kid who's father is and always was 100 percent frum and is smoking a joint on shabbos while texting, give a smile
I will explain to him it is puff puff pass. Everyone always forgets the pass part.  >:(
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 14, 2017, 09:07:39 AM
Everyone please relax

As a tikun for this chillul shabbos that everyone here is so worried about

Next time you see a kid who's father is and always was 100 percent frum and is smoking a joint on shabbos while texting, give a smile
Not a potch? Maybe a sniffle? Not sure about the smiles.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 09:08:34 AM
Would this be accurate?

To be frum means to be committed to the observance of Jewish religious law that often exceeds the bare requirements of Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 14, 2017, 09:11:00 AM
Cut the non-sense. They aren't frum. Period.

The whole problem is, is that they claim they are.

Guessing you don't have much exposure to modern orthodoxy.
+1 this is the problem.
 Many modox are so full of ahavat yisrael and are so perfect in their midda of Dan lekaf zecut in being non judgmental, that they will still warmly embrace the Ivanka brand of orthodoxy... They'll write a teshuva and creat a heter for anything.

This is evil.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 09:14:56 AM
Would this be accurate?

To be frum means to be committed to the observance of Jewish religious law that often exceeds the bare requirements of Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws.
According to?

We have an old saying about the acronym created by the word פרום.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 09:17:11 AM
According to?
General consensus, if possible.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 09:20:13 AM
General consensus, if possible.
From Jews???

Ever heard of the expression "two Jews = three opinions"?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 09:22:51 AM
Ever heard of the expression "two Jews = three opinions"?
Yes so how about the average of those opinions?  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 09:24:08 AM
+1 this is the problem.
 Many modox are so full of ahavat yisrael and are so perfect in their midda of Dan lekaf zecut in being non judgmental, that they will still warmly embrace the Ivanka brand of orthodoxy... They'll write a teshuva and creat a heter for anything.

This is evil.
Oh please. Nobody frum is warmly embracing it, but that doesn't mean we can't have A"Y and be DL"Z.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 09:25:17 AM
Would this be accurate?

To be frum means to be committed to the observance of Jewish religious law that often exceeds the bare requirements of Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws.
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 09:26:16 AM
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on June 14, 2017, 09:28:44 AM
General consensus, if possible.
Yes.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Emkay on June 14, 2017, 09:30:51 AM


The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
Not necessarily arguing (yet) but what is this based on?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 09:33:23 AM
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
Well, they have at least 2 x's there and the third we will probably never know.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: saw50st8 on June 14, 2017, 09:37:45 AM
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.

I think it's really shabbos and basic kosher (meaning people who eat vegetarian out) who fall into the "frum" category. I know people through mikva in there all the time but I don't think that's always true.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 09:40:02 AM
I don't see how you can possibly be considered frum without following taharas hamishpacha.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 09:41:51 AM
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
tfillin
I don't see how you can possibly be considered frum without following taharas hamishpacha.
+1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 09:42:45 AM
OK lets get back to Ivanka.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 09:43:08 AM
tfillin
50% of frum Jews don't put on Tefilin :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 09:46:01 AM
50% of frum Jews don't put on Tefilin :P
No true Scotsman
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on June 14, 2017, 09:47:49 AM
Says they've been spotted in non kosher restaurants in DC.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: sillypainter on June 14, 2017, 09:49:51 AM
I'm not defending the Kushners because of their recent trip to the middle east which was publicized,  but this whole thing is based on a NYPost article, they are a bunch of liars, so why even base on them?

Remember Menachem Stark landlord murder? That's who they are....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: saw50st8 on June 14, 2017, 09:51:37 AM
I don't see how you can possibly be considered frum without following taharas hamishpacha.

It depends on how you are defining frum. I've just discovered that a few people I know don't keep THM but still consider themselves frum.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 09:53:56 AM
It depends on how you are defining frum. I've just discovered that a few of my friends don't keep THM but still consider themselves frum.
Is that like gender identity where they self identify against all facts?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: sillypainter on June 14, 2017, 09:55:10 AM
It depends on how you are defining frum. I've just discovered that a few people I know don't keep THM but still consider themselves frum.

Are they also drinking their "negel vaser" ?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 09:56:07 AM
It depends on how you are defining frum. I've just discovered that a few people I know don't keep THM but still consider themselves frum.
Considering the severity of the prohibition, I don't see how that's possible, but IANYLOR
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: saw50st8 on June 14, 2017, 09:59:46 AM
I think what people accept as "frum" is pretty arbitrary. I'm not defending not practicing THM. I just don't think it's a marker that's actually used in the Orthodox community.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on June 14, 2017, 10:03:09 AM
I think what people accept as "frum" is pretty arbitrary. I'm not defending not practicing THM. I just don't think it's a marker that's actually used in the Orthodox community.
I agree with this. It's something no one would ever know anyway so practically it doesn't make a difference.

And I also agree I think many more people don't observe TH than the average frum guy thinks. If someone has it there was an article going around about frum people dropping TH.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 14, 2017, 10:09:25 AM
Actually, these definitions are discussed extensively by the poskim. There are quite a few categories of Jews - a mumar lehachis, a mumar leteavon, a mumar ledovor echod, a mechalel shabbos bepharhesia, a choiteh that we assume repented a tinok shenishba etc

These catagories of frumness have halachic implications in many areas.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 10:10:52 AM
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
Not necessarily arguing (yet) but what is this based on?

I remember seeing this from the Chofetz Chaim but don't remember where.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on June 14, 2017, 11:20:45 AM


OOT the difference is where they daven on Rh and YK or what synagogue they are a member of
In South Africa for example  alot of the people consider themselves Orthodox yet keep absolutely nothing
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 11:28:42 AM
OOT the difference is where they daven on Rh and YK or what synagogue they are a member of
In South Africa for example  alot of the people consider themselves Orthodox yet keep absolutely nothing
Do yopu consider someone frum for going to an orthodox shul on RH YK? I don't.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 14, 2017, 11:32:01 AM
Orthodox is a belief
Frum is a practice

You are Orthdox if you believe in Orthdox Judaism even if you don't practice it
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 14, 2017, 11:34:12 AM
You are Orthdox if you believe in Orthdox Judaism even if you don't practice it
That makes sense.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on June 14, 2017, 11:38:55 AM
Do yopu consider someone frum for going to an orthodox shul on RH YK? I don't.
they don't consider themselves frum either, they consider themselves Orthodox
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 11:40:20 AM
they don't consider themselves frum either, they consider themselves Orthodox
In which case it does not have much relevance to the questions asked.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dawie on June 14, 2017, 11:43:04 AM
In which case it does not have much relevance to the questions asked.
True, but it explains why Jared considers himself Orthodox and not frum
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on June 14, 2017, 11:50:38 AM
At worst, psik reisha d'lo nicha lei. Probably not psik reisha, just davar she'eino miskaven.
Believe it or not, the 'tshuva' from that conservative org deals with that:
Quote from: https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/2011-2020/lubliner-recreation-sports-shabbat.pdf
Even if we do not restrict ball playing to courts and other hard surfaces, but extend its permissibility to fields, the sport of golf remains problematic. Brent Kelley, a golf writer and sports journalist for more than 20 years, explains, “ Most shots from the fairway with an iron will scrape off the top of the turf where the ball was resting. ‘Divot’ refers to both the turf that is scraped up, and the scarred area in the fairway where the turf had been.” Unlike the unintentional and irrelevant detachment of grass in, say, a game of soccer, divot-making is seen by many golfers as essential to good technique. In addition, it is considered proper golf etiquette to repair the divot by tamping back down the patch torn by one’s swing.” Both the digging and the repair of the hole -- deliberate actions connected to the game -- constitute melakhot subsumed by the category of plowing (horesh), whose rubric includes the digging and filling of holes in the earth. Nevertheless, there would be no objection per se to hitting golf balls off of an artificial mat within an eruv, since doing so would not involve the creation of divots.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on June 14, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
Oh please. Nobody frum is warmly embracing it, but that doesn't mean we can't have A"Y and be DL"Z.
This is almost certainly not accurate, though obviously you can play around with the definition of frum (no true Scotsman, etc.). More accurate would be to make that statement about the frum world as a whole, or even possibly about modern orthodoxy as a whole.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on June 14, 2017, 12:33:14 PM
50% of frum Jews don't put on Tefilin :P


Wow, this mus be true! can't believe this.

Guessing you don't have much exposure to modern orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 12:36:34 PM

Wow, this mus be true! can't believe this.

Lol, that may have gone over your head.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on June 14, 2017, 12:43:17 PM
Lol, that may have gone over your head.

Now I understand why Chabadsker are putting on Tefilin on streets. There out for the frum ones!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 12:47:42 PM
Now I understand why Chabadsker are putting on Tefilin on streets. There out for the frum ones!
Still don't get it huh?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on June 14, 2017, 12:50:49 PM
Still don't get it huh?
R"T
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on June 14, 2017, 12:54:06 PM


Many frum Jews don't put on 50% of Tefilin

FTFY
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: gozalim on June 14, 2017, 12:58:41 PM
50% of frum Jews don't put on Tefilin :P
If you believe the Shidduch crisis noise it's more than 50%
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 01:17:53 PM
Lol, that may have gone over your head.
I guess Rashi's daughters were an exception.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on June 14, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
Lol, that may have gone over your head.
Pun intended?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 01:40:27 PM
Now I understand why Chabadsker are putting on Tefilin on streets. There out for the frum ones!
how come they never approach me? >:( ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 01:42:39 PM
how come they never approach me? >:( ;D
You are probably not פרום (see reference to acronym above)  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 01:48:10 PM
You are probably not פרום (see reference to acronym above)  ;)
i saw the reference, idk what it is?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 02:04:24 PM
i saw the reference, idk what it is?
פרום ר"ת פול מצוות ווייניק מצוות  ;)

Though there's another one commonly used in NY:

פודסטעמפס
רענט-אסיסטענס
וועלפער
מעדיקייד
 ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: sillypainter on June 14, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
פרום ר"ת פול מצוות ווייניק מצוות  ;)

Though there's another one commonly used in NY:

פודסטעמפס
רענט-אסיסטענס
וועלפער
מעדיקייד
 ;D

I assume you meant פול רשעות ווייניג מצוות
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on June 14, 2017, 02:20:08 PM
פרום ר"ת פול מצוות ווייניק מצוות  ;)

Though there's another one commonly used in NY:

פודסטעמפס
רענט-אסיסטענס
וועלפער
מעדיקייד
 ;D
Liked.


(So people think I understood the joke.)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 02:31:39 PM
I assume you meant פול רשעות ווייניג מצוות
dont forget chabadskers are russian
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 02:53:19 PM
dont forget chabadskers are russian
Not an ounce of Russian blood in me that I'm aware of, but I believe ג and ק are commonly interchangeable in Yiddish spelling (including names of days, etc.)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%95%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A7
http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/yiddish/dictionary.cgi?word=%D7%B0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A7
https://www.scribd.com/document/55796996/Hebrew-Books-Org-43653 (scroll to page 183 at the bottom).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 03:05:19 PM
Not an ounce of Russian blood in me that I'm aware of, but I believe ג and ק are commonly interchangeable in Yiddish spelling (including names of days, etc.)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%95%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A7
http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/yiddish/dictionary.cgi?word=%D7%B0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A7
https://www.scribd.com/document/55796996/Hebrew-Books-Org-43653 (scroll to page 183 at the bottom).
iinm its the kuf is much more russian/lithunaian
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 03:23:28 PM
iinm its the kuf is much more russian/lithunaian
And Lithuanian Yiddish is a lot more accurate and particular, compared to Hungarian or Galician Yiddish (and to a certain extent Polish Yiddish) which are a lot more vernacular.

I've given 3 dictionary examples spelling with a ק, I would love to see examples spelling with a ג (I am not saying it's wrong - I believe both are correct).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 14, 2017, 04:03:54 PM
And Lithuanian Yiddish is a lot more accurate and particular, compared to Hungarian or Galician Yiddish (and to a certain extent Polish Yiddish) which are a lot more vernacular.

I've given 3 dictionary examples spelling with a ק, I would love to see examples spelling with a ג (I am not saying it's wrong - I believe both are correct).
i agree, just pointing out where i thought its coming from
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chaimmayer on June 14, 2017, 04:36:02 PM
I guess Rashi's daughters were an exception.
Well known myth
You have a מקןר?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 05:55:56 PM
Well known myth
You have a מקןר?
I do not. Did some googling after I wrote that and came up with exactly what you wrote. Well known myth, no source.  Though there were others די מויד פון לודמיר and מיכל בת שאול.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chaimmayer on June 14, 2017, 06:46:25 PM
My brother had a theory that since ר״ת allows women to make a ברכה על מצות עשה שהזמן גרמא people painted the family in a liberal/feminist light and came up with this.
It's a big stretch a theory.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 14, 2017, 08:09:54 PM
My brother had a theory that since ר״ת allows women to make a ברכה על מצות עשה שהזמן גרמא people painted the family in a liberal/feminist light and came up with this.
It's a big stretch a theory.
איו וייז מיר
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 09:19:16 PM
I assume you meant פול רשעות ווייניג מצוות
LOL.

Just now did I realize the error in my initial post.

It is indeed פול רשעות ווייניק מצוות.

Though in true DDF style your comment turned into a discussion of Yiddish spelling rather than the typo I slipped in there saying מצוות where I meant to say רשעות.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 14, 2017, 11:09:48 PM
LOL.

Just now did I realize the error in my initial post.

It is indeed פול רשעות ווייניק מצוות.

Though in true DDF style your comment turned into a discussion of Yiddish spelling rather than the typo I slipped in there saying מצוות where I meant to say רשעות.
אפ' ריקנים שבכם מלאים מצות כרימון
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on June 14, 2017, 11:38:12 PM
Considering the severity of the prohibition, I don't see how that's possible, but IANYLOR
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
Then you should probably remove kosher from the mix.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 14, 2017, 11:58:41 PM
אפ' ריקנים שבכם מלאים מצות כרימון
Or as the Lubavitch version goes - ישראל אף על פי שלא חטא ישראל הוא.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 12:05:16 AM
Or as the Lubavitch version goes - ישראל אף על פי שלא חטא ישראל הוא.
speaking of chassidim changing things from the gemara.....

I was specifically coming off your typo.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:10:43 AM
speaking of chassidim changing things from the gemara.....

I was specifically coming off your typo.
LOL.

Didn't the current discussion start with a question about who Lubavitchers will offer to put on tefillin with?

BTW, you might be surprised at the number of Yeshivish bochurim who will ask to make a brocho on Lulav and Esrog from a Lubavitcher who is going around offering it to people.

ETA: how is this changing the Gemorah?  Does the Gemorah imply that an ישראל who hasn't sinned is not a ישראל and Ahavas Yisroel should not be applied to him or her?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: AsherO on June 15, 2017, 12:15:31 AM
BTW, you might be surprised at the number of Yeshivish bochurim who will ask to make a brocho on Lulav and Esrog from a Lubavitcher who is going around offering it to people.

But they won't do the same when a Chabadsker has tefillin on offer.

Is it because they are more embarrassed about tefillin than about lulav, or because they wouldn't trust the kashrus of chabadsker tefillin? :D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:27:04 AM
But they won't do the same when a Chabadsker has tefillin on offer.

Is it because they are more embarrassed about tefillin than about lulav, or because they wouldn't trust the kashrus of chabadsker tefillin? :D
I guarantee you that such a thought doesn't cross their minds. They never heard of בהובלנביב״ח and just don't have that level of awareness.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: bermo on June 15, 2017, 02:55:09 AM
But they won't do the same when a Chabadsker has tefillin on offer.

Is it because they are more embarrassed about tefillin than about lulav, or because they wouldn't trust the kashrus of chabadsker tefillin? :D
When I was in Toronto I got ask many times from people that I would consider frum to use my תפילין...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 08:28:23 AM
But they won't do the same when a Chabadsker has tefillin on offer.

Is it because they are more embarrassed about tefillin than about lulav, or because they wouldn't trust the kashrus of chabadsker tefillin? :D
It is most likely because it is customary in many yeshivos for people to be yotzei with esrogim of many different yuchsin to help ensure that at least one is not murkav. They would therefore also want to take the one which was brought over on a cloud to Moshe in the midbar grown on a piece of land which did not yet exist.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
I guarantee you that such a thought doesn't cross their minds. They never heard of בהובלנביב״ח and just don't have that level of awareness.
I never heard of that either. WHat is that?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 08:31:40 AM
It is most likely because it is customary in many yeshivos for people to be yotzei with esrogim of many different yuchsin to help ensure that at least one is not murkav. They would therefore also want to take the one which was brought over on a cloud to Moshe in the midbar grown on a piece of land which did not yet exist.
You must be a Barditchever einikel.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 08:35:24 AM
You must be a Barditchever einikel.
I am wondering how many people will get all aspects of what I am referring to.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 09:19:31 AM
I am wondering how many people will get all aspects of what I am referring to.
Eh.... Now you ain't talking like a Barditchever... more like a Litvak. :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 09:20:27 AM
Eh.... Now you ain't talking like a Barditchever... more like a Litvak. :)
Well I am of mixed background.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 09:24:40 AM
Well I am of mixed background.
Same here. :) (which gives the advantage of getting various nuances, though Jewish backgrounds are so diverse, that there will always be something that could be missed).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 09:25:47 AM
Same here. :)
Except that you abandoned those to focus almost exclusively on a different one
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on June 15, 2017, 09:35:43 AM
I am wondering how many people will get all aspects of what I am referring to.
The yichus of the Yanever?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 09:36:53 AM
The yichus of the Yanever?
That was the easy part. I wrote all aspects for a reason.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on June 15, 2017, 09:41:46 AM
That was the easy part. I wrote all aspects for a reason.

That was the part I was most unsure about. I'm pretty sure I got the rest  ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 09:43:13 AM
That was the part I was most unsure about. I'm pretty sure I got the rest  ;D
I meant within that part. That sentence was written with many fine points.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on June 15, 2017, 09:51:30 AM
I meant within that part. That sentence was written with many fine points.

I got this:
Quote
grown on a piece of land which did not yet exist.

I never heard this:

Quote
brought over on a cloud to Moshe in the midbar

Probably because the former is a gemara and the latter is not.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 09:55:36 AM
I got this:
I never heard this:

Probably because the former is a gemara and the latter is not.
Without the first part you don't fully understand the import of the second, but you are on the right track. Leave it to DDF to have a discussion about the Kushners become one about Yiddish spelling and Yanever esrogim.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on June 15, 2017, 09:59:35 AM
Without the first part you don't fully understand the import of the second, but you are on the right track. Leave it to DDF to have a discussion about the Kushners become one about Yiddish spelling and Yanever esrogim.
Isn't it a "thing" that משה used an אסרוג from Italy?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 15, 2017, 10:04:32 AM
Isn't it a "thing" that משה used an אסרוג from Italy?
Yes, it's a thing
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 15, 2017, 10:05:04 AM
You guys ruined a great thread.  >:(
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on June 15, 2017, 10:27:35 AM
You guys ruined a great thread.  >:(

What do you have against Italians?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 10:51:26 AM
You guys ruined a great thread.  >:(
Make the Thread Great again!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 15, 2017, 11:22:21 AM
What do you have against Italians?
Besides being sleazy and slimeballs?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 15, 2017, 11:23:56 AM
Make the Thread Great again!
Will have to wait until this weekend for the most recognized Orthodox Jew to do something we can talk about.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on June 15, 2017, 11:24:09 AM
Besides being sleazy and slimeballs?
Well that's a very vast accusation lol.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 15, 2017, 11:25:47 AM
Well that's a very vast accusation lol.
I should know.  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on June 15, 2017, 11:27:03 AM
You guys ruined a great thread.  >:(

The Kushner's can help by doing something and leaking it to media so we can post and analyze.

Just find a link to them committing a sin...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
I guarantee you that such a thought doesn't cross their minds. They never heard of בהובלנביב״ח and just don't have that level of awareness.
I never heard of that either. WHat is that?
I might have the ר"ת slightly off, I've seen it only once IINM, and most people have probably never seen it. I've seen it quoted as בדהוהמאלנ"ביבח though I would guess that person also quoted from memory, rather than transcribing what he saw.

It is a something the Rebbe wrote in answering letters sent to him, which was decrypted by the secretaries before providing the answer or letter to intended recipient.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 11:58:11 AM
Just find a link to them committing a sin...
G-d forbid!

At most it would be an allegation.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aro123 on June 15, 2017, 12:02:04 PM
Attempting to get back on topic.  http://www.vosizneias.com/272265/2017/06/14/washington-hospital-u-s-lawmaker-scalise-in-critical-condition-after-attack-by-gunman-at-baseball-field/#comments   Read comment #7 
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:05:36 PM
Except that you abandoned those to focus almost exclusively on a different one
Despite a few exchanges we've had here, I am sure you don't have the faintest clue about my background (though some hints about some details have been dropped here and there), nor do even those DDFers that know me by my legal name and/or face.

The common thread to all of my posts, is that of an independent thinker, whose opinions are based on personal education, experiences, observations and תכונות הנפש.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 12:07:35 PM
Despite a few exchanges we've had here, I am sure you don't have the faintest clue about my background (though some hints about some details have been dropped here and there), nor do even those DDFers that know me by my legal name and/or face.

The common thread to all of my posts, is that of an independent thinker, whose opinions are based on personal education, experiences, observations and תכונות הנפש.
Oh I thought you would understand that I didn't mean that seriously. But there is some cognitive dissonance on your part regarding Lubavitch. (Had to stick that in just for Yehuda57)

What I do know is that you have said that you have zero russian blood.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:07:50 PM
Attempting to get back on topic.  http://www.vosizneias.com/272265/2017/06/14/washington-hospital-u-s-lawmaker-scalise-in-critical-condition-after-attack-by-gunman-at-baseball-field/#comments   Read comment #7
I love the last line of that comment.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:08:42 PM
Oh I thought you would understand that I didn't mean that seriously. But there is some cognitive dissonance on your part regarding Lubavitch. (Had to stick that in just for Yehuda57)
Huh? On DDF?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 12:09:50 PM
I never heard of that either. WHat is that?

I might have the ר"ת slightly off, I've seen it only once IINM, and most people have probably never seen it. I've seen it quoted as בדהוהמאלנ"ביבח though I would guess that person also quoted from memory, rather than transcribing what he saw.

It is a something the Rebbe wrote in answering letters sent to him, which was decrypted by the secretaries before providing the answer or letter to intended recipient.
I still don't get it. What does it have to do with tefillin?

I thought it maybe had something to do with the way Chabad measures an etzba which leads them to have larger batim or something of the sort.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:10:23 PM
Oh I thought you would understand that I didn't mean that seriously. But there is some cognitive dissonance on your part regarding Lubavitch. (Had to stick that in just for Yehuda57)
I'm not done with you and your cognitive dissonance. I just need to find the time at a desktop computer.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:11:04 PM
I still don't get it. What does it have to do with tefillin?
GIYF (maybe).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:13:16 PM
What I do know is that you have said that you have zero russian blood.
That I am aware of.

There have been other hints regarding my background dropped here and there, but even one that would decipher all of them wouldn't get anything close to a complete picture.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 12:14:38 PM
I'm not done with you and your cognitive dissonance. I just need to find the time at a desktop computer.  :)
I am sure that you are not done. I may be using logical fallacies over there but CD isn't one of them because that issue is not something which I have a real opinion about. I am simply critiquing the logic I saw there.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 12:15:33 PM
That I am aware of.

There have been other hints regarding my background dropped here and there, but even one that would decipher all of them wouldn't get anything close to a complete picture.
Either way that means that whatever it is it is not from the russian Lubavitch originally
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on June 15, 2017, 12:17:18 PM
The common thread to all of my posts, is that of an independent thinker, whose opinions are based on personal education, experiences, observations and תכונות הנפש.
"If I do say so myself!"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 15, 2017, 12:18:02 PM
That I am aware of.

There have been other hints regarding my background dropped here and there, but even one that would decipher all of them wouldn't get anything close to a complete picture.
you would be hard pressed to find a person who doesnt think like that about themselves
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:21:11 PM
You guys ruined a great thread.  >:(
Don't be a spoiler. I've received quite a few likes recently on this thread. Now my kids don't need to go hungry.  :D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:22:45 PM
you would be hard pressed to find a person who doesnt think like that about themselves
Possibly. Not arguing one way or the other, though I am not sure how universal the independent part is, and I think there's ample evidence to my thinking being independent, to the point that people are surprised at positions I take.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 15, 2017, 12:24:19 PM
Possibly. Not arguing one way or the other, though I am not sure how universal the independent part is, and I think there's ample evidence to my thinking being independent, to the point that people are surprised at positions I take.
link? ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on June 15, 2017, 12:25:44 PM
The common thread to all of my posts, is that of an independent thinker, whose opinions are based on personal education, experiences, observations and תכונות הנפש.

Look who found a way to like their own posts.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:26:04 PM
link? ;D
That's what @TimT is for.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on June 15, 2017, 12:29:50 PM
I love the last line of that comment.  :)

http://asif.co.il/download/kitvey-et/zor/chor%2040/1%20(8)(2).pdf
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/11/ART2/482/148.html?hp=11&cat=1102&loc=6
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 12:44:35 PM
http://asif.co.il/download/kitvey-et/zor/chor%2040/1%20(8)(2).pdf
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/11/ART2/482/148.html?hp=11&cat=1102&loc=6
I wasn't referring to any halachic discussion but rather to the following line:

"P.S. According to most New Yorkers, in their minds, Yiddishkeit doesn't exist anywhere outside of the NYC area."
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aro123 on June 15, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
Attempting to get back on topic.  http://www.vosizneias.com/272265/2017/06/14/washington-hospital-u-s-lawmaker-scalise-in-critical-condition-after-attack-by-gunman-at-baseball-field/#comments   Read comment #7
It is very clear from that comment why what the kushners do (in public) is our business
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on June 15, 2017, 04:19:33 PM
It is very clear from that comment why what the kushners do (in public) is our business
when a comment on VIN has any influence on anything.....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on June 15, 2017, 06:15:40 PM
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/dangers-overhyping-jewishness-gal-gadot-jared-ivanka/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 06:32:20 PM
I still don't get it. What does it have to do with tefillin?

I thought it maybe had something to do with the way Chabad measures an etzba which leads them to have larger batim or something of the sort.
For an example of a letter written by one of the secretaries based on those ר״ת see top of page 123 here (http://crownheights.info/assets/media/30/20120314-kovets%20110.pdf).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JoeyShmoe on June 15, 2017, 06:40:46 PM
https://www.ou.org/life/inspiration/dangers-overhyping-jewishness-gal-gadot-jared-ivanka/
Is it just me that finds it weird for an article on ou.org to discuss a movie in detail including a character's "breasts and buttocks", especially when it has nothing to do with the point of the article?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 06:42:09 PM
For an example of a letter written by one of the secretaries based on those ר״ת see top of page 123 here (http://crownheights.info/assets/media/30/20120314-kovets%20110.pdf).
I still dont get how that its relevant to the discussion of this thread which is so clearly about tefillin?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 06:50:28 PM
I still dont get how that its relevant to the discussion of this thread which is so clearly about tefillin?
Context.

I wrote it in response to:
But they won't do the same when a Chabadsker has tefillin on offer.

Is it because they are more embarrassed about tefillin than about lulav, or because they wouldn't trust the kashrus of chabadsker tefillin? :D
And I made an allusion to the fact that there's a heightened awareness to Kashrus of tefillin in Lubavitch, which I don't think exists elsewhere.

A possible outcome of that awareness is that IINM prices paid for tefillin and mezuzos are generally higher in Lubavitch circles.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 15, 2017, 07:33:39 PM
Is it just me that finds it weird for an article on ou.org to discuss a movie in detail including a character's "breasts and buttocks", especially when it has nothing to do with the point of the article?
Not weird at all.   - This is the OU.. the highest level of kashrus possible.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on June 15, 2017, 07:39:08 PM
Despite a few exchanges we've had here, I am sure you don't have the faintest clue about my background (though some hints about some details have been dropped here and there), nor do even those DDFers that know me by my legal name and/or face or hair color.


FTFY  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
Context.

I wrote it in response to:And I made an allusion to the fact that there's a heightened awareness to Kashrus of tefillin in Lubavitch, which I don't think exists elsewhere.

A possible outcome of that awareness is that IINM prices paid for tefillin and mezuzos are generally higher in Lubavitch circles.
Okay. I still don't see how those roshei teivos led that direction but I probably will never get the full import of them.

BTW, I have a feeling that the prices paid in Lubavitch circles are dwarfed by those paid in Lakewood, but I may be way off on that one. Here it is also due to a heightened awareness.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on June 16, 2017, 10:22:27 AM
http://www.vosizneias.com/272411/2017/06/16/washington-jared-and-ivanka-do-their-own-thing-as-observant-jews/ (http://www.vosizneias.com/272411/2017/06/16/washington-jared-and-ivanka-do-their-own-thing-as-observant-jews/)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 16, 2017, 11:57:11 AM
http://www.vosizneias.com/272411/2017/06/16/washington-jared-and-ivanka-do-their-own-thing-as-observant-jews/ (http://www.vosizneias.com/272411/2017/06/16/washington-jared-and-ivanka-do-their-own-thing-as-observant-jews/)
Finally back OT and a great article!!!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 16, 2017, 12:07:49 PM
http://www.vosizneias.com/272411/2017/06/16/washington-jared-and-ivanka-do-their-own-thing-as-observant-jews/ (http://www.vosizneias.com/272411/2017/06/16/washington-jared-and-ivanka-do-their-own-thing-as-observant-jews/)
Confirmed. Modern orthodox is conservative.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on June 16, 2017, 12:29:32 PM
Confirmed. Modern orthodox is conservative.

There are major, substantial differences.  I would love to articuate them, but I keep Shabbos :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: saw50st8 on June 16, 2017, 12:42:24 PM
Confirmed. Modern orthodox is conservative.

Eye roll.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 16, 2017, 01:42:13 PM
Eye roll.
Did you read the article and the scientific research conducted?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 16, 2017, 01:45:54 PM
Did you read the article and the scientific research conducted?
Did you read who they included as "modern orthodox"? They counted anyone who if they would ever go to a synagogue would go to an orthodox one as modox even if they have not done anything for religious observance in their life.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 16, 2017, 01:59:29 PM
Did you read who they included as "modern orthodox"? They counted anyone who if they would ever go to a synagogue would go to an orthodox one as modox even if they have not done anything for religious observance in their life.
Self identified is the term.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170616/a911b9101375e6ed64ff1b15661e77c6.jpg)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on June 16, 2017, 02:05:22 PM
Self identified is the term.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170616/a911b9101375e6ed64ff1b15661e77c6.jpg)
No true Scotsman
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 16, 2017, 02:10:05 PM
No true Scotsman
Logical fallacy. Cognitive dissonance. Scottish nonsense.
Wtvr I've hear em all.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yehuda57 on June 16, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
It's a good thing that even people who are not frum identify as orthodox. Marriage, conversion, etc. have to be done al pi halacha
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 16, 2017, 02:40:13 PM
Logical fallacy. Cognitive dissonance. Scottish nonsense.
Wtvr I've hear em all.
Call what you wish. A krumme svara is still krum
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on June 17, 2017, 02:40:52 PM
Confirmed. Modern orthodox is conservative.
There are major, substantial differences.  I would love to articulate them, but I keep Shabbos :)

The difference between Orthodox and Conservative is in the ideology of their respective Rabbinic leadership, not in the practices of their adherents.  The majority of Modern Orthodox Rabbis have views on the authority of Rabbinic Law that place them firmly in the Orthodox camp.  Those who don't tend to identify as Open Orthodox.  You can point to the low level of practice of some or many Modern Orthodox Jews as an indication of the non-viability of the Modern part of Modern Orthodoxy, but that in no way makes them Conservative.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ExGingi on June 18, 2017, 06:53:29 PM
iinm its the kuf is much more russian/lithunaian
On the topic of Yiddish difference, came across this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrSw-Bnee0&list=PLFak9dI2WtW6qoTw31axUfuHAqLBTdB6F&index=8).
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on June 18, 2017, 07:12:58 PM
On the topic of Yiddish difference, came across this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrSw-Bnee0&list=PLFak9dI2WtW6qoTw31axUfuHAqLBTdB6F&index=8).
i dont have youtube
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: saw50st8 on June 19, 2017, 07:56:03 AM
Did you read the article and the scientific research conducted?

Yes I did. I also know that MO shuls are more accepting (I would say there are plenty of non-observant Chabad affiliated Jews who are non practicing too). So people might affiliate with modern orthodoxy but not be fully observant. I know many people who fall into this category, including some who attend my mainstream MO shul.

MO and Conservative are very different philosophically. I grew up attending a right wing yeshiva for elementary school even though my family is MO, so I'm used to people discounting MO, calling us conservative, disrespecting our rabbonim and generally trying to throw us out of the orthodox umbrella. So yes, I rolled my eyes at your post.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on June 21, 2017, 08:12:30 PM
So once Jared is out of the country Marco tries to get in a hug.....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 23, 2017, 04:07:40 PM
Anyone see Ivankas picnic dress?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Adam101 on June 23, 2017, 05:04:49 PM
Anyone see Ivankas picnic dress?
I'm sure i speak for all of us. Yes, with covered eyes.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 23, 2017, 05:13:20 PM
I'm sure i speak for all of us. Yes, with covered eyes.
For a Friday that's it?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: MeirS on June 23, 2017, 05:52:52 PM
For a Friday that's it?
I didn't look too closely but I think her knees were covered.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 23, 2017, 06:33:04 PM
I didn't look too closely but I think her knees were covered.
my eyes were higher. 😂
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on June 23, 2017, 06:33:50 PM
my eyes were higher. 😂
Taivos...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on June 23, 2017, 06:37:31 PM
Taivos...
not even close but I can see it being an OTD issue for some of you.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on June 23, 2017, 07:07:51 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4634208/Ivanka-Trump-s-kids-play-Jared-Kushner-s-sister-Dara.html#comments-4634208
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on June 25, 2017, 09:53:14 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4634208/Ivanka-Trump-s-kids-play-Jared-Kushner-s-sister-Dara.html#comments-4634208

To our religious investigators, did they take the bus to the Munchan weeding or perhaps walked?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on June 25, 2017, 10:42:28 AM
To our religious investigators, did they take the bus to the Munchan weeding or perhaps walked?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4636770/Jared-Ivanka-stroll-hand-hand-DC.html
Quote
Jared and Ivanka arrived on a private bus reserved for wedding guests after they were earlier spotted leaving the Trump International Hotel, where the guests were being picked up. 
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on June 25, 2017, 04:37:39 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4636770/Jared-Ivanka-stroll-hand-hand-DC.html
Definitely pikuach nefesh
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Knak Yankel on July 06, 2017, 12:59:09 PM
@KolHaolam: POLAND: Ivanka Trump visited the Warsaw ghetto memorial, a day after Polish Jews condemned Pres Trump, for not scheduling to go there....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on July 12, 2017, 04:59:56 PM
Mods change thread title?


Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Knak Yankel on July 24, 2017, 06:32:06 PM
Today in Senate, Tomorrow in The House.

@KolHaolam: WASHINGTON: Jared Kushner after Senate Intel interview: "I did not collude with Russia, nor do I know anyone else in the campaign who did."
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on July 24, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
Today in Senate, Tomorrow in The House.

@KolHaolam: WASHINGTON: Jared Kushner after Senate Intel interview: "I did not collude with Russia, nor do I know anyone else in the campaign who did."

CNN also had this scoop!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on July 24, 2017, 06:58:54 PM
CNN also had this scoop!
why go with fake news when you can go with the real deal  
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 24, 2017, 07:44:56 PM
Today in Senate, Tomorrow in The House.

@KolHaolam: WASHINGTON: Jared Kushner after Senate Intel interview: "I did not collude with Russia, nor do I know anyone else in the campaign who did."
Were his lips moving?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on July 24, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
Seriously, I love these bombshell headlines. Kushner says he did not collude with the Russians!!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 24, 2017, 08:22:00 PM
Seriously, I love these bombshell headlines. Kushner says he did not collude with the Russians!!
You don't think that LIE is a bombshell?  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on July 24, 2017, 09:34:14 PM
You don't think that LIE is a bombshell?  :)
True or not, it's not a bombshell.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 24, 2017, 09:36:19 PM
True or not, it's not a bombshell.
Minefield?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on July 25, 2017, 11:25:58 AM
Once we're merging this with the politics thread...
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a56534/jared-kushner-statement/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Knak Yankel on August 17, 2017, 06:16:54 PM
Trump, Kushner rabbi denounces Trump’s Charlottesville remarks

CBS News · 5 hours ago

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiZwprRpd_VAhUL1oMKHadkACcQqUMIMjAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Ftrump-kushner-rabbi-denounces-trumps-charlottesville-remarks%2F&usg=AFQjCNGVQ_nqYeTK-R5R2KFi8F1QKY_f2Q
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on August 17, 2017, 09:32:12 PM
Trump, Kushner rabbi denounces Trump’s Charlottesville remarks

CBS News · 5 hours ago

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiZwprRpd_VAhUL1oMKHadkACcQqUMIMjAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Ftrump-kushner-rabbi-denounces-trumps-charlottesville-remarks%2F&usg=AFQjCNGVQ_nqYeTK-R5R2KFi8F1QKY_f2Q
this is news because?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on August 17, 2017, 09:37:29 PM
this is news because?
Because as the title says we are trying to keep up with the Kushners.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on August 17, 2017, 10:10:24 PM
Because as the title says we are trying to keep up with the Kushners.  :)
Then we might need a thread "keeping up with the Kushners Rabbi"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on August 17, 2017, 10:25:11 PM
Then we might need a thread "keeping up with the Kushners Rabbi"
That would be to much to keep up with. Speaking of the Kushners they seem awful quiet lately.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on August 17, 2017, 10:29:47 PM
That would be to much to keep up with. Speaking of the Kushners they seem awful quiet lately.
Now that they have their rabbi serving as spokesman, why shouldn't they be quiet?  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on August 17, 2017, 10:31:21 PM
That would be to much to keep up with. Speaking of the Kushners they seem awful quiet lately.
I would also be quiet if my father in law was president and called people who want to kill me good people.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on August 17, 2017, 10:44:40 PM
I would also be quiet if my father in law was president and called people who want to kill me good people.
When did this happen?  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on August 17, 2017, 10:57:46 PM
When did this happen?  :)
We don't know if it did, but some fake news outlets are very busy with it.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on September 27, 2017, 03:33:16 PM
https://www.wired.com/story/jared-kushner-voter-registration-woman/



Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on September 27, 2017, 04:26:02 PM
Talk about going underground. These two are off the grid.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on September 27, 2017, 04:34:04 PM
https://www.wired.com/story/jared-kushner-voter-registration-woman/



So he identified as a female that day....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on September 27, 2017, 05:05:24 PM
So he identified as a female that day....

Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: hachover on September 27, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Come on, is that worthy of page 6? Where are they going for succos? How long is the break after mussaf on yom kippur? Until you tell me Jared sat behind the mechitza its just a typo.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on September 27, 2017, 06:47:36 PM
...or what is on everyone's mind. What is Ivanka wearing?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on September 28, 2017, 12:00:41 PM
...or what is on everyone's mind. What is Ivanka wearing?

to Yom Kippur? at Chabad? or maybe they will go away for the weekend. either way, it will probably be basic and simple. smart.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on September 28, 2017, 05:39:56 PM
https://www.wired.com/story/jared-kushner-voter-registration-woman/





http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/jared-kushner-registered-vote-male-database-error-article-1.3528008
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on September 28, 2017, 05:41:42 PM
Is this the certified original copy or just some duplicate  ;D

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3528006.1506620952!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/kushner29n-4-web.jpg)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: hachover on September 28, 2017, 06:30:48 PM
Can we get the long form?

Who registers using paper and pencil in 2011?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on September 28, 2017, 07:14:42 PM
Can we get the long form?

Who registers using paper and pencil in 2011?
i did in 2016
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on September 28, 2017, 08:26:08 PM
https://www.wired.com/story/jared-kushner-voter-registration-woman/




wow what a completely dumb article.  actually very surprised that you shared it
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on September 28, 2017, 08:27:52 PM
wow what a completely dumb article.  actually very surprised that you shared it
This isn't the interesting article thread, it's the KUWTK thread.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: elit on September 28, 2017, 08:29:56 PM
This isn't the interesting article thread, it's the KUWTK thread.
still completely unworthy of sharing. might as well check if the national inquiring has any stories on them.
his record says female so.lets automatically assume he checked it off by mistake and then jump from there to he has some really major issue filling  out forms
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on September 28, 2017, 08:37:54 PM
his record says female so.lets automatically assume he checked it off by mistake and then jump from there to he has some really major issue filling  out forms
His ability to fill out forms correctly is well documented. No need to rehash that.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on October 02, 2017, 09:12:08 AM
https://www.axios.com/javankas-retooled-role-under-john-kelly-2491925996.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aro123 on October 03, 2017, 03:33:52 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1376958/look-ivanka-trump-spotted-shopping-etrog-lulav-deal-nj.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: afro on October 08, 2017, 11:01:23 AM
I was the one who took the pics - I took on iPhone so they are live pics.

They bought succah decorations.

Jared's mother was also with them - she was the one who was carrying the bags.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on October 08, 2017, 06:47:49 PM
So Jared goes kfar chabad all the way
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1379004/photos-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-family-walk-shul-sukkos.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on October 08, 2017, 09:53:01 PM
So Jared goes kfar chabad all the way
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1379004/photos-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-family-walk-shul-sukkos.html

also goes to show that you can have a m(/b)illion dollars and still be 100% fine with a cardboard esrog box. No fancy wood, leather, or silver box is needed.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2017, 10:14:08 PM
also goes to show that you can have a m(/b)illion dollars and still be 100% fine with a cardboard esrog box. No fancy wood, leather, or silver box is needed.
Other than for hidur mitzvah
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on October 08, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Other than for hidur mitzvah

the hidur applies to the actual esrog, correct? (not the box?)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on October 08, 2017, 10:18:34 PM
the hidur applies to the actual esrog, correct? (not the box?)
True, hidur was the wrong term. It is zeh keli vianvehu similar to a nice mantel for a sefer Torah etc
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Denverite on October 08, 2017, 10:55:42 PM
So Jared goes kfar chabad all the way
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1379004/photos-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-family-walk-shul-sukkos.html

And I know everyone likes to pick on their religiosity but I go to a MO synagogue and the vast majority of men don't wear suits L'Kavod Yom Tov and the women also don't dress nearly that tznua or bother to put a full hat on (now it's only trendy to wear fascinators...yup all y'all dudes can google it if you don't know what one is...lol) so yashar koach to them for showing kavod to the day and the synagogue.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on October 08, 2017, 11:25:10 PM
So Jared goes kfar chabad all the way
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1379004/photos-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-family-walk-shul-sukkos.html
Amazing that there are no comments on this on YWN...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on October 08, 2017, 11:33:53 PM
Amazing that there are no comments on this on YWN...
Whats surprising? Did you forget who she ran to for a bracha during the elections ? :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on October 08, 2017, 11:37:02 PM
Whats surprising? Did you forget who she ran to for a bracha during the elections ? :)
Lol

Your the great finder...any article that has pics of javanka has the regular comments why is this on a heimishe website, tznuis issues etc..  ( and I don't read YWN, only the ones that get linked on DDF )
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: PlatinumGuy on October 09, 2017, 04:09:12 AM
also goes to show that you can have a m(/b)illion dollars and still be 100% fine with a cardboard esrog box. No fancy wood, leather, or silver box is needed.
That's what happens when your Shver doesn't buy you one
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on October 09, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Whats surprising? Did you forget who she ran to for a bracha during the elections ? :)

also more likely that this purchase was done by Jared who hung out and assisted during some events at Chabad of Harvard during his undergrad years.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on October 09, 2017, 07:27:01 PM
also goes to show that you can have a m(/b)illion dollars and still be 100% fine with a cardboard esrog box. No fancy wood, leather, or silver box is needed.
His Shver didn't know to buy him one...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on October 09, 2017, 07:28:56 PM
His Shver didn't know to buy him one...
That's what happens when your Shver doesn't buy you one
HT PG
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on December 03, 2017, 12:18:43 PM
Just heard Jerad label himself as an Orthodox jew!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 03, 2017, 12:27:17 PM
What does that make Ivanka?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on December 03, 2017, 12:35:15 PM
Just heard Jerad label himself as an Orthodox jew!
IIRC this is not the first time. That is more of a social identification than anything else anyhow.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on December 03, 2017, 12:37:28 PM
IIRC this is not the first time. That is more of a social identification than anything else anyhow.
+1. I'm not sure what would be news here. The Kushners have always identified as Orthodox, and reside squarely within their Modern Orthodox circles. I wouldn't put all MO in the same category, but there is definitely a large group of Jews who identify as MO that are similar religiously to the Kushner family.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: stbaum on January 10, 2018, 09:57:08 AM
Is Ivanka pregnant?? looks like it from her latest Instagram post... world wide web has nothing so obviously ddf will have the answer  ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2018, 10:01:48 AM
Um, seems pretty obvious to me.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Boruch999 on January 10, 2018, 10:05:42 AM
וכאשר יענו אותו כן ירבה וכן יפרוץ
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Rivky on January 10, 2018, 10:10:10 AM
It’s a throwback photo to 2 years ago
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: stbaum on January 10, 2018, 10:16:39 AM
Um, seems pretty obvious to me.

good for you

It’s a throwback photo to 2 years ago

that clears that up. thanks!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shapsam on January 10, 2018, 10:40:17 AM
It’s a throwback photo to 2 years ago
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/368272-ivanka-not-pregnant-despite-a-social-media-post-sparking
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2018, 10:51:13 AM
Why post a throwback without tagging it as a throwback?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2018, 10:53:59 AM
Lol, well now she added it.
Maybe they're getting notifications for this thread ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on January 10, 2018, 10:54:53 AM
Hi Ivanka :)

If you or Jared need any travel help hit us up ;)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: stbaum on January 10, 2018, 10:55:37 AM
Why post a throwback without tagging it as a throwback?

not so obvious now, is it?  ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2018, 10:57:02 AM
Lol you said it looks "like it."

I might just be a guy, but I know that no woman holds her stomach like that unless they are with child...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 10, 2018, 10:57:49 AM
not so obvious now, is it?  ;D
Why would it being from 2 years ago when she was pregnant make it less obvious that she was pregnant in the picture?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on January 10, 2018, 11:00:22 AM
Hi Ivanka :)

If you or Jared need any travel help hit us up ;)
THey choose between AF1/private and very specifically cattle class.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on January 10, 2018, 11:14:27 AM
Hi Ivanka :)

If you or Jared need any travel help hit us up ;)
This might’ve been them
"I am looking for a good deal
To Israel. Can you let me know soon?
Thank you"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: skyguy918 on January 10, 2018, 11:37:26 AM
This might’ve been them
No, no, no. Jared is working on a good deal for Israel, not to Israel.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 10, 2018, 11:39:36 AM
Poor Ivanka is now a non-issue. She had the opportunity to do many good things.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Talmid Muvhak on January 10, 2018, 12:18:49 PM
Poor Ivanka is now a non-issue. She had the opportunity to do many good things.
She's waiting for when she is president.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yammer on January 10, 2018, 12:41:30 PM
This might’ve been them
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on January 10, 2018, 02:51:21 PM
This might’ve been them

Maybe Pence's trip to Israel was delayed because they didn't hear back from you yet.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Talmid Muvhak on January 11, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
Maybe Pence's trip to Israel was delayed because they didn't hear back from you yet.
What's the Shayla?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on February 24, 2018, 09:38:23 PM
Whats the story with Ivanka in South Korea for the Olympics? taking pictures on Shabbes Twitting on shabbes? please correct me if I am missing something. 
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 24, 2018, 09:39:44 PM
Whats the story with Ivanka in South Korea for the Olympics? taking pictures on Shabbes Twitting on shabbes? please correct me if I am missing something.
It was a life or death situation.
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=18685.msg1898821#msg1898821
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: HowYaDoin on February 24, 2018, 10:06:07 PM
It was a life or death situation.
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=18685.msg1898821#msg1898821
we should change your name to Rabbi Chaim Moskowitz
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 24, 2018, 10:14:36 PM
we should change your name to Rabbi Chaim Moskowitz
Won't work, no one listens to what I say.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Dan on February 24, 2018, 10:29:28 PM
Whats the story with Ivanka in South Korea for the Olympics? taking pictures on Shabbes Twitting on shabbes? please correct me if I am missing something. 
See wiki
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on February 25, 2018, 12:48:26 AM
Won't work, no one listens to what I say.

Then you'll fit it with all the other Rabbis no one listens to
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 25, 2018, 12:49:05 AM
Then you'll fit it with all the other Rabbis no one listens to
Start a "unheeded Rabbi support group"
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: eyj on March 03, 2018, 08:25:03 PM

Whats the story with Ivanka in South Korea for the Olympics? taking pictures on Shabbes Twitting on shabbes? please correct me if I am missing something.

See wiki

And when random people snuck into the hotel for selfies on YT she would explain quite nicely that she didn't do that on Shabbos/YT.


Scratches head....
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yoohoo on March 04, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Hey Dan. Has Jared reached out to find out where you’re being this Pesach?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: coralsnake on March 04, 2018, 11:57:15 PM
Hey Dan. Has Jared reached out to find out where you’re being this Pesach?
Lets try to rephrase that in English please.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CS1 on March 05, 2018, 10:13:22 AM
Hey Dan. Has Jared reached out to find out where you’re being this Pesach?

dan already wrote his plans here on DDF. No need for Jared to have high level security clearance to access this 'classified' information.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mgarfin on May 16, 2018, 01:54:40 PM
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/05/16/don-lemon-rye-dennard-ivanka-rabbi-monkey-comment-panel-sot-ctn.cnn
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on May 16, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/05/16/don-lemon-rye-dennard-ivanka-rabbi-monkey-comment-panel-sot-ctn.cnn
Shouldn't this be for Friday?  :)
Is this Rabbi their version of Trump?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: gozalim on May 16, 2018, 05:06:57 PM
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/05/16/don-lemon-rye-dennard-ivanka-rabbi-monkey-comment-panel-sot-ctn.cnn
farrakhan...
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on July 24, 2018, 03:42:33 PM
Is the new daughter in law frum too?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on July 24, 2018, 04:53:34 PM
https://www.jta.org/2018/07/24/news-opinion/the-telegraph/karlie-kloss-converts-judaism-gets-engaged-joshua-kushner
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: gingyguy on July 24, 2018, 05:31:26 PM
Is the new daughter in law frum too?
converted last month!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: coralsnake on October 18, 2018, 10:10:26 PM
https://pagesix.com/2018/10/18/karlie-kloss-and-josh-kusher-tie-the-knot/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: greatluck on October 18, 2018, 11:45:47 PM
joshua Kushner is orthodox?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 27, 2018, 08:02:44 PM
After the cholent?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shapsam on October 27, 2018, 08:30:52 PM
After the cholent?
Could've been a staffer.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: churnbabychurn on October 27, 2018, 08:34:40 PM
Could've been a staffer.
Tzivui or remiza?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shapsam on October 27, 2018, 08:36:19 PM
Tzivui or remiza?
Can be neither. Just trying to be dan lkaf zchus  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: gozalim on October 27, 2018, 08:39:28 PM
Tzivui or remiza?
for a derabanan?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yesitsme on October 27, 2018, 08:45:54 PM
After the cholent?
doh, it was sent through shabbos app auto FWD from CM.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on October 27, 2018, 08:50:15 PM
doh, it was sent though shabbos app auto FWD from CM.
She has special dispensation so leave her alone!  >:(
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on October 27, 2018, 08:57:37 PM
Tzivui or remiza?

שכיר שנה
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: justaregularguy on October 28, 2018, 01:22:20 AM
After the cholent?
who eats cholent at night?


ETA: I laughed out loud just now when my phone corrected “cholent” to “cholesterols”  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: 12HRS on October 28, 2018, 01:47:00 AM
who eats cholent at night?

whole yeshiva world
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: justaregularguy on October 28, 2018, 12:07:16 PM
whole yeshiva world
ivanka not included
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Jellybelly on November 05, 2018, 06:56:02 AM
Does someone want to remind them to visit
 the Ohel again this time? Seems like it worked in 2016
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on November 05, 2018, 07:22:50 AM
Does someone want to remind them to visit
 the Ohel again this time? Seems like it worked in 2016
Have them get me the lottery numbers while they are there.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on November 17, 2018, 08:26:42 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/are-jared-and-ivanka-good-for-the-jews/ar-BBPNQxF?ocid=spartandhp
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on November 17, 2018, 10:10:09 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/are-jared-and-ivanka-good-for-the-jews/ar-BBPNQxF?ocid=spartandhp
This is funny.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on December 02, 2018, 03:50:56 PM
After the cholent?
Yea its sad that there are Tweets from her account on Shabbes, this past shabbes there were a few.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 02, 2018, 03:55:46 PM
Yea its sad that there are Tweets from her account on Shabbes, this past shabbes there were a few.
If someone posted for her would that be a violation?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: coralsnake on December 02, 2018, 03:57:03 PM
If someone posted for her would that be a violation?
Not at all.

But then there'd be nothing to talk about. 🙄
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: BP16 on December 02, 2018, 03:59:32 PM
If someone posted for her would that be a violation?
Its a different problem if she told someone to post it.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on December 02, 2018, 04:51:03 PM
Also the possibility of maares ayin
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chinagel on December 02, 2018, 06:04:21 PM
Also maares ayin
ftfy
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on December 02, 2018, 06:49:27 PM
ftfy

I think it's pretty well known that celebrities/public figures have people who run their social media accounts
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: as2 on December 02, 2018, 06:51:40 PM
ftfy
|
|
V
I think it's pretty well known that celebrities/public figures have people who run their social media accounts
+1. Definitely not so pashut.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: coralsnake on December 02, 2018, 08:13:45 PM
Also the possibility of maares ayin
Definitely not so pashut.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: good sam on December 02, 2018, 11:37:32 PM
Sometimes things are assur al pi halacha because of maris ayin.

Other times we can't find anything halachically wrong so we resort to "maris ayin" - the appearance of impropriety.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: chff on March 20, 2019, 09:50:21 AM
https://www.vosizneias.com/319373/2019/03/20/new-york-trump-was-baffled-by-ivankas-conversion-to-judaism-book-claims/
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shapsam on March 20, 2019, 10:35:01 AM
https://www.vosizneias.com/319373/2019/03/20/new-york-trump-was-baffled-by-ivankas-conversion-to-judaism-book-claims/
This bashes Orthodox Judaism more than it does to the Kushners.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on July 23, 2019, 12:11:02 PM
Leave the girl alone!  >:( >:( >:(
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/united-kingston-trends-after-ivanka-trump-misspells-united-kingdom-in-congratulatory-tweet/ar-AAEK58M?ocid=spartandhp
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on August 12, 2019, 06:49:26 AM
Leave the girl alone!  >:( >:( >:(
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-ivanka-trump-wishes-muslims-eid-mubarak-on-twitter-critics-remind-her-of-fathers-muslim-travel-ban/ar-AAFFdzr?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on August 12, 2019, 08:45:55 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-ivanka-trump-wishes-muslims-eid-mubarak-on-twitter-critics-remind-her-of-fathers-muslim-travel-ban/ar-AAFFdzr?li=BBnb7Kz
Sad!
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: mrprez27 on August 12, 2019, 12:38:17 PM
If someone posted for her would that be a violation?

maybe shes not in the U.S.....diff time zone - dan lakaf zchus

and who should she be Maras Ayin for if shes in a diff time zone - people in east coast where it is still Shabbat?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Baruch on August 12, 2019, 11:51:16 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Kushner-Inc-Ambition-Corruption-Extraordinary/dp/1250185947/ref=sr_1_1?crid=24925MR4QX2V7&keywords=kushner+inc&qid=1565668228&s=gateway&sprefix=kushner%2Caps%2C257&sr=8-1
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shapsam on December 25, 2019, 10:09:01 AM
::)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on December 25, 2019, 12:14:21 PM
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on December 25, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
Merry Christmas to you and your family also.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on February 04, 2020, 02:15:51 AM
Oops
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8HAgvVBf_V/?igshid=gtn1wxf30xlx
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: hvaces42 on February 04, 2020, 07:46:51 AM
Oops
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8HAgvVBf_V/?igshid=gtn1wxf30xlx
Avot 1:6
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: thaber on February 04, 2020, 08:58:06 AM
Avot 1:6
Absolutely. I'm assuming no cheese
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on February 04, 2020, 09:02:58 AM
I'm assuming no cheese
Are you also assuming the hamburger and fries are kosher?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: shapsam on February 04, 2020, 09:03:57 AM
There's no sign of her eating in the picture.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on February 04, 2020, 09:07:52 AM
Memories from Iowa... post caucus snack with dad on Trump Force One 🤣 🍔 🍟 🤣
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: ReadsTheT&C on February 04, 2020, 09:56:19 AM
Are you also assuming the hamburger and fries are kosher?
She probably had it flown in from here: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g312741-d2562697-Reviews-McDonald_s-Buenos_Aires_Capital_Federal_District.html
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on February 04, 2020, 09:59:16 AM
She probably had it flown in from here: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g312741-d2562697-Reviews-McDonald_s-Buenos_Aires_Capital_Federal_District.html
Maybe SF froze one for her.  :)
Lets face facts. She mostly follows her religion and that is great. If we had more people doing that we all would be better off.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on February 04, 2020, 12:46:45 PM
Oops
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8HAgvVBf_V/?igshid=gtn1wxf30xlx

Screenshot?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yuds70 on March 13, 2020, 07:50:42 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ivanka-trump-is-staying-home-after-being-exposed-to-an-australian-minister-infected-with-the-coronavirus/ar-BB119Brx?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yos9694 on April 17, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
Pesach resort in Bedford NJ this year
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on November 08, 2020, 12:34:29 PM
He better not ever divorce Ivanka. You will see an onslaught like you have never seen before.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jared-kushner-has-approached-president-trump-about-conceding-2020-election/ar-BB1aOgnT?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Abey on November 08, 2020, 01:14:18 PM
He better not ever divorce Ivanka. You will see an onslaught like you have never seen before.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jared-kushner-has-approached-president-trump-about-conceding-2020-election/ar-BB1aOgnT?ocid=msedgntp
Why do you hate Jared ?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: zh cohen on November 08, 2020, 01:19:29 PM
He better not ever divorce Ivanka. You will see an onslaught like you have never seen before.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jared-kushner-has-approached-president-trump-about-conceding-2020-election/ar-BB1aOgnT?ocid=msedgntp

I think that it's very revealing that some people are cheering (and perhaps hoping) for marriages to be ripped apart. When it was only Trump, it was one thing (although still disgusting) but this is next level. You should stop.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Toasted on November 08, 2020, 01:23:52 PM
I think that it's very revealing that some people are cheering (and perhaps hoping) for marriages to be ripped apart. When it was only Trump, it was one thing (although still disgusting) but this is next level. You should stop.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on November 08, 2020, 01:51:20 PM
I think that it's very revealing that some people are cheering (and perhaps hoping) for marriages to be ripped apart. When it was only Trump, it was one thing (although still disgusting) but this is next level. You should stop.
This shows how twisted your mind is. You can't think straight. I don't hope they get divorce.  ::)
I am stating what how quickly Trump will turn on someone.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on November 08, 2020, 01:52:48 PM
Why do you hate Jared ?
I don't, why would you ask that?
Have you beat your spouse today?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Mordyk on November 08, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
I honestly hope Ivanka and Jared stay active.  I can see only good they did. And hope they continue
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on November 12, 2020, 03:29:19 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jared-kushner-and-ivanka-trump-moved-their-kids-to-a-new-school-after-parents-complained-about-the-couple-not-following-coronavirus-protocols-report-says/ar-BB1aX66K?li=BBorjTa
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: jj1000 on December 07, 2020, 10:45:03 PM
New neighbors down the block from me https://pagesix.com/2020/12/07/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-spend-30m-on-miami-land/

Any good house warming gift ideas?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on December 07, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
New neighbors down the block from me https://pagesix.com/2020/12/07/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-spend-30m-on-miami-land/

Any good house warming gift ideas?
This (https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Sam-Doll-This-President-Supporters/dp/B08H8YN1JX/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Trump+draft+dodger+stuffed+doll&qid=1607399900&sr=8-4)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Euclid on December 07, 2020, 11:05:56 PM
New neighbors down the block from me https://pagesix.com/2020/12/07/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-spend-30m-on-miami-land/

Any good house warming gift ideas?
An eruv?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Afrages6 on December 07, 2020, 11:07:38 PM
New neighbors down the block from me https://pagesix.com/2020/12/07/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-spend-30m-on-miami-land/

Any good house warming gift ideas?
A pardon?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Yo ssi on December 07, 2020, 11:08:29 PM
This (https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Sam-Doll-This-President-Supporters/dp/B08H8YN1JX/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Trump+draft+dodger+stuffed+doll&qid=1607399900&sr=8-4)
If haven't already bought the limit.. :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: aygart on December 08, 2020, 08:22:47 AM
An eruv?
If that gets added to the eruv then it should help connect the entire MB/BH/SS/etc regarding tchumin to be allowed to walk the causeway to NMB. It is the eruv including treasure island and N Bay Island which ruins it.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Lurker on December 08, 2020, 08:24:38 AM
A calculator.
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: TimT on January 06, 2021, 11:25:43 PM
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: Deal Guy on January 07, 2021, 02:34:42 AM
Why?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on June 08, 2021, 08:30:01 PM
Not going to post the picture. Talk about smoking hot jogging outfit. What is next, Playboy?  :)
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JMHO on June 08, 2021, 08:52:02 PM
Troll
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on June 08, 2021, 08:53:45 PM
Idiot
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JMHO on June 08, 2021, 09:29:11 PM
Good night
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: yesitsme on June 08, 2021, 09:32:30 PM
Link?
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on June 08, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Trying to get me banned?  >:(
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: JMHO on June 08, 2021, 10:11:52 PM
#Lifnei iver  :P
Title: Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
Post by: CountValentine on June 08, 2021, 10:30:57 PM
#Lifnei iver  :P
Good night