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DansDeals Forum => Up In The Air => Topic started by: yandmk on March 18, 2017, 08:47:25 PM

Title: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on March 18, 2017, 08:47:25 PM
I just came across this http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/54058-el-al-eyes-late-3q17-incl-debut-for-b787s, which made me give a curious peek at the availability in Sep from TLV to LAX and to see what aircraft is showing. All the flights (LY5) are still showing the 772, but I came across this 1 "fake flight" (which is obviously just some sort of test being that it is on Shabbos and labeled LY555 (instead of 5) and showing 0 availability), and it's operated by a 787-9.
 02SEP  SAT   TLV/Z‡3     LAX/PDT-10                           
1LY     555 C0 I0 D0 Z0 J0 TLVLAX  100A  625A 789 BH 0 J DCA /E
            R0 X0 W0 Q0 B0 P0 Y0 S0 M0 K0 V0 L0 T0 H0 N0 G0 Oo 
            U0 E0                                             

From the highest fare class being C, something tells me they may have taken Dan's advice.......
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 07:52:06 AM
They are removing F and considering PE
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on March 19, 2017, 08:20:09 AM
They are removing F and considering PE
Source?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on March 19, 2017, 03:55:46 PM
Source?
I don't have a source, but being that they now put "W,Q,B,P," between X and Y it definitely seems to indicate that.

For those unfamiliar, W used to be "discounted economy" P was "First award" and Q and B are 2 random economy fare classes that are being eliminated starting September 1.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on March 19, 2017, 03:59:19 PM
Was asking chff
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 04:12:53 PM
Source?

No comment
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on March 19, 2017, 04:13:20 PM
Boo
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 04:14:16 PM
I don't have a source, but being that they now put "W,Q,B,P," between X and Y it definitely seems to indicate that.

For those unfamiliar, W used to be "discounted economy" P was "First award" and Q and B are 2 random economy fare classes that are being eliminated starting September 1.

Email from 8/26/16
Quote

Dear partner,
 
Please be advised that EL AL new fare structure for departures ON/AFTER September 1, 2017 will be reflected in your GDS system as of September 1, 2016.
 
The new structure will exclude RBDs "W" , "B" , "Q" , "P".
 
The rest of the RBDs' rules and fares were updated accordingly.
 
The fare structure for all departures and returns till August 31, 2017 stays the same.
 
 
Thank You,
North America Team
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 04:17:35 PM
Well - there you go

Flight is not loaded in 1A only in 1S - but here is the filfo

Code: [Select]
AN2SEPTLVLAX/ALY/FD                                                             
** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AN ** LAX LOS ANGELES.USCA         167 SA 02SEP 0000 
NO FLIGHT FOR THIS CITY PAIR - ENTER A CONNECT POINT /X...                     

Code: [Select]
TN2SEPTLVLAX/ALY                                                               
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** LAX LOS ANGELES.USCA              02SEP17 09SEP17 
 1   LY 555  6    TLV 3 LAX B  100A    625A   0 02SEP17 02SEP17 789 15:25       

Code: [Select]
12SEPTLVLAX‡LY«                                                 
 02SEP  SAT   TLV/Z‡3     LAX/PDT-10                           
1LY     555 C0 I0 D0 Z0 J0*TLVLAX  100A  625A 789 BH 0 J DCA /E
            R0 X0 W0 Q0 B0 P0 Y0 S0 M0                         

Code: [Select]
>doly555
DOLY555                                                                         
FLIGHT NOT OPERATIONAL                                                         
>doly555/2sep
DOLY555/2SEP                                                                   
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO*              LY 555  167 SA 02SEP17                   
APT ARR   DY DEP   DY CLASS/MEAL          EQP  GRND  EFT   TTL                 
TLV          0100  SA (CLASS NOT AVAIL-)  789        15:25                     
LAX 0625  SA                                               15:25               
                                                                               
COMMENTS-                                                                       
 1.TLV LAX   - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3                                               
 2.TLV LAX   - ARRIVES TERMINAL B                                               
 3.TLV LAX   -   1/ MOVIE                                                       
 4.TLV LAX   -   4/ AUDIO PROGRAMMING                                           
 5.TLV LAX   -   7/ DUTY FREE SALES                                             
 6.TLV LAX   -   9/ NON-SMOKING                                                 
 7.TLV LAX   - SECURED FLIGHT                                                   
 8.TLV LAX   -  ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE                                   
 9.TLV LAX   - TEST FLIGH  NO BOOKING ALLOWED                                   
10.TLV LAX   -  CO2/PAX* 666.79 KG ECO, 1,333.59 KG PRE                         
 (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR                                   
                                                                               
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               789  C  32   W  28   Y 222                                       

Code: [Select]
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               789  C  32   W  28   Y 222     
[/b]   
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 04:20:52 PM
Boo

See the CONFIGURATION above
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on March 19, 2017, 04:21:08 PM
Email from 8/26/16
I'm well aware of that, but that email makes no mention of PE. But in the above snapshot from Sabre, it looks like they're adding those exact fare classes as PE. (check your GDS 02SEP TLVLAX)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on March 19, 2017, 04:23:45 PM
Well - there you go

Flight is not loaded in 1A only in 1S - but here is the filfo

Code: [Select]
AN2SEPTLVLAX/ALY/FD                                                             
** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AN ** LAX LOS ANGELES.USCA         167 SA 02SEP 0000 
NO FLIGHT FOR THIS CITY PAIR - ENTER A CONNECT POINT /X...                     

Code: [Select]
TN2SEPTLVLAX/ALY                                                               
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** LAX LOS ANGELES.USCA              02SEP17 09SEP17 
 1   LY 555  6    TLV 3 LAX B  100A    625A   0 02SEP17 02SEP17 789 15:25       

Code: [Select]
12SEPTLVLAX‡LY«                                                 
 02SEP  SAT   TLV/Z‡3     LAX/PDT-10                           
1LY     555 C0 I0 D0 Z0 J0*TLVLAX  100A  625A 789 BH 0 J DCA /E
            R0 X0 W0 Q0 B0 P0 Y0 S0 M0                         

Code: [Select]
>doly555
DOLY555                                                                         
FLIGHT NOT OPERATIONAL                                                         
>doly555/2sep
DOLY555/2SEP                                                                   
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO*              LY 555  167 SA 02SEP17                   
APT ARR   DY DEP   DY CLASS/MEAL          EQP  GRND  EFT   TTL                 
TLV          0100  SA (CLASS NOT AVAIL-)  789        15:25                     
LAX 0625  SA                                               15:25               
                                                                               
COMMENTS-                                                                       
 1.TLV LAX   - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3                                               
 2.TLV LAX   - ARRIVES TERMINAL B                                               
 3.TLV LAX   -   1/ MOVIE                                                       
 4.TLV LAX   -   4/ AUDIO PROGRAMMING                                           
 5.TLV LAX   -   7/ DUTY FREE SALES                                             
 6.TLV LAX   -   9/ NON-SMOKING                                                 
 7.TLV LAX   - SECURED FLIGHT                                                   
 8.TLV LAX   -  ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE                                   
 9.TLV LAX   - TEST FLIGH  NO BOOKING ALLOWED                                   
10.TLV LAX   -  CO2/PAX* 666.79 KG ECO, 1,333.59 KG PRE                         
 (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR                                   
                                                                               
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               789  C  32   W  28   Y 222                                       

Code: [Select]
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               789  C  32   W  28   Y 222     
[/b]   
Thanks. I'm not familiar with Amadeus, but I get the point.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on March 19, 2017, 04:26:03 PM
They are removing F and considering PE
Seems like PE is there, no?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on March 19, 2017, 04:26:13 PM
I wonder how they will now reward their elites. Until today they were eligible for free E+ seating, but with PE in place, that benefit goes out the window.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 04:26:38 PM
Seems like PE is there, no?

Correct
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on March 19, 2017, 04:42:23 PM
Sabre is actually allowing me to pull up the seat maps which confirms this info.

What an upgrade on the business from their 2-3-2 configuration on the 772...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 05:33:52 PM
My guess was an interior like AC etc
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on March 19, 2017, 05:37:25 PM
My guess was an interior like AC etc
And hopefully the premium cabin prices like AZ... (AC PE is prohibitively expensive)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 19, 2017, 05:47:15 PM
And hopefully the premium cabin prices like AZ... (AC PE is prohibitively expensive)
They will definitely match (or be matched to...) to UA JV A++
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on March 19, 2017, 09:20:55 PM
Will they possibly remove the new J from partners like they currently do with their F?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on March 19, 2017, 09:42:59 PM
When will they start flying these to NYC ?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: high end hobo on March 19, 2017, 10:43:58 PM
Amazing how much detective skills we have to go through to figure this out instead of them putting out a press release to generate hype...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on March 19, 2017, 10:59:32 PM
Amazing how much detective skills we have to go through to figure this out instead of them putting out a press release to generate hype...
Give them a chance
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Hershelsdeals on March 20, 2017, 08:59:07 AM
Screenshot
http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/EL-AL-Business-Class-787.png#_ga=1.152574010.2070020725.1472332113
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on March 20, 2017, 09:03:13 AM
Bigger question is what will become of J and F on their existing fleet? Presumably, if they want to keep selling F, they'd need to invest in new seats and a 1-1 config.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on March 20, 2017, 11:38:50 AM
Screenshot
http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/EL-AL-Business-Class-787.png#_ga=1.152574010.2070020725.1472332113

Stock Boeing Image
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on May 03, 2017, 11:30:45 AM
Any word on which routes will get 787 service?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 03, 2017, 11:35:15 AM
Any word on which routes will get 787 service?
So far not MIA...
(Though from the test in the GDS a couple months ago, I would assume LAX will be from the first)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on May 03, 2017, 12:40:44 PM
Any word on which routes will get 787 service?

Seems HKG will be getting it from the first.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 03, 2017, 12:54:51 PM
Seems HKG will be getting it from the first.
Source?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on May 03, 2017, 12:57:31 PM
Source?

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1362117#p19516595 makes sense to compete directly with CX product.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: high end hobo on May 03, 2017, 10:23:27 PM
Any word on which routes will get 787 service?
A big TA friend of mine told me LY CEO told him HKG will be the first route, but still its just hearsay
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on May 04, 2017, 04:17:01 AM
Same here - I spoke to a senior flight attendant yesterday - he said that internally they heard that the first flight is HKG, and the second will be LAX.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 04, 2017, 05:35:33 AM
So basically, HKG to compete with the CX A350 and LAX to compete with the UA 787 to SFO. No competition in NYC....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: David Smith on May 04, 2017, 05:37:19 AM
Same here - I spoke to a senior flight attendant yesterday - he said that internally they heard that the first flight is HKG, and the second will be LAX.
Evidently it's not the chareidim flying the NY route they're trying to woo. It's the Israeli businessmen that would otherwise fly CX, and the LA and West Coast crowd that would otherwise fly UA from SFO.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on May 04, 2017, 06:21:09 AM
This may have something to do with this too - http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272683/el-al-closing-first-class-bookings-on-selected-777-service-in-w17/
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 04, 2017, 06:39:12 AM
This may have something to do with this too - http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272683/el-al-closing-first-class-bookings-on-selected-777-service-in-w17/

So in other words, pay the low J class price now for a flight to Newark next winter (About $3400) or book at the current award rates for business and you very likely will end up in luxury seats. ;)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on May 04, 2017, 07:19:30 AM
Evidently it's not the chareidim flying the NY route they're trying to woo. It's the Israeli businessmen that would otherwise fly CX, and the LA and West Coast crowd that would otherwise fly UA from SFO.

And EWR that will be getting Polaris 777-300.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on May 04, 2017, 07:30:28 AM
Hard to believe LY is so aware of the competiton

LAX is probably second to save on fuel costs
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 04, 2017, 08:47:02 AM
Hard to believe LY is so aware of the competiton

LAX is probably second to save on fuel costs
They would need 3/4 planes for LAX alone plus 3/4 for HKG, and they are only getting 15
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on May 04, 2017, 09:21:55 AM
They would need 3/4 planes for LAX alone plus 3/4 for HKG, and they are only getting 15
why3/4 planes for lax for a nice part of the year its only 3 times a week so 1 plane is enough and for the times when its 5 times a week 2 planes are enough
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shimino1 on May 04, 2017, 09:28:43 AM
why3/4 planes for lax for a nice part of the year its only 3 times a week so 1 plane is enough and for the times when its 5 times a week 2 planes are enough
+1 shouldn't be more than 1-2 planes for any route that only has 3-6 flights a week.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 04, 2017, 09:30:33 AM
They would need 3/4 planes for LAX alone plus 3/4 for HKG, and they are only getting 15
Huh? Why do they need more than 2 per route? The max frequency on those routes is once daily.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 04, 2017, 11:41:00 AM
Huh? Why do they need more than 2 per route? The max frequency on those routes is once daily.
It's a 15 hour flight plus 3 hours at least between flights that a total of 36 hours from TLV to TLV, at this same time (if the flights are daily) there is another 2 flights that left TLV since the first aircraft left TLV
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 04, 2017, 12:18:22 PM
It's a 15 hour flight plus 3 hours at least between flights that a total of 36 hours from TLV to TLV, at this same time (if the flights are daily) there is another 2 flights that left TLV since the first aircraft left TLV
In 36 hrs, only one more aircraft departed from TLV....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 04, 2017, 12:23:14 PM
In 36 hrs, only one more aircraft departed from TLV....
Oops... I was off with my math
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on May 04, 2017, 12:37:52 PM
 Curious if they'll ever be able to move NY to 787. Imagine replicating capacity on 16 747 flights weekly from JFK alone.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on May 04, 2017, 05:51:17 PM
My 2 cents while everyone loves to bash LY.... (IME - in some aspects I like LY more then many other airlines)

LY will put the 787 on HKG/LAX first, yes to compete, but not putting them on NYC is not because we don't care about these clients - its the "demand". A 787 has less seats then a 747/777 and if LY flies 747/777 planes twice/trice daily to NYC and its full, it makes no sense to decrease the seats. I would say that once they announce the new hard product, all planes will be retrofitted going forward, except if they will retire that acft within the next C cycle. yes, it could take some time till they'll get all planes done etc

BA doesn't fly an A380 to NYC because they are happy with having multiple frequencies to NYC and an A380 will make them cut a flight, wheres if they deploy it to another market with one/two daily flights, they up the seats without having to add another flight.

Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on May 04, 2017, 11:14:17 PM
My 2 cents while everyone loves to bash LY.... (IME - in some aspects I like LY more then many other airlines)

LY will put the 787 on HKG/LAX first, yes to compete, but not putting them on NYC is not because we don't care about these clients - its the "demand". A 787 has less seats then a 747/777 and if LY flies 747/777 planes twice/trice daily to NYC and its full, it makes no sense to decrease the seats. I would say that once they announce the new hard product, all planes will be retrofitted going forward, except if they will retire that acft within the next C cycle. yes, it could take some time till they'll get all planes done etc

BA doesn't fly an A380 to NYC because they are happy with having multiple frequencies to NYC and an A380 will make them cut a flight, wheres if they deploy it to another market with one/two daily flights, they up the seats without having to add another flight.
+1
Exactly my thoughts, except that LY is currently on my do not fly list, but that might change given enough reasons.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on May 05, 2017, 12:06:22 PM
My 2 cents while everyone loves to bash LY.... (IME - in some aspects I like LY more then many other airlines)

LY will put the 787 on HKG/LAX first, yes to compete, but not putting them on NYC is not because we don't care about these clients - its the "demand". A 787 has less seats then a 747/777 and if LY flies 747/777 planes twice/trice daily to NYC and its full, it makes no sense to decrease the seats. I would say that once they announce the new hard product, all planes will be retrofitted going forward, except if they will retire that acft within the next C cycle. yes, it could take some time till they'll get all planes done etc

BA doesn't fly an A380 to NYC because they are happy with having multiple frequencies to NYC and an A380 will make them cut a flight, wheres if they deploy it to another market with one/two daily flights, they up the seats without having to add another flight.

Does the 787 with 3-4-3 have less capacity than the 777 does with 3-3-3?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on May 05, 2017, 12:12:04 PM
Does the 787 with 3-4-3 have less capacity than the 777 does with 3-3-3?

787 with 3-4-3??
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on May 05, 2017, 12:17:18 PM
787 with 3-4-3??

My mistake. Guess they are both 3-3-3. So Dreamliner prob has less space.

Perhaps LY could fly 4x daily to NYC (2 EWR/2 JFK) and make up some capacity that way, while avoiding a retrofit on the some of the older fleet and retire the 747 and save $$$ on the 747 fuel costs.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on May 10, 2017, 08:03:35 AM
looks like they're getting ready to show off
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on May 10, 2017, 01:56:51 PM
There are only getting their plane in August, what will they show off? :)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on May 10, 2017, 03:22:57 PM
There are only getting their plane in August, what will they show off? :)

They'll prob dress up a 767 and convince the Israeli Travel Agents its a Dreamliner
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on May 10, 2017, 03:27:38 PM
They'll prob dress up a 767 and convince the Israeli Travel Agents its a Dreamliner
LOL 👍
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on May 18, 2017, 06:12:56 AM
just spoke to somebody in Elal and they're making the Dreamliner 2-2-2 in business not reverse herringbone 👎
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 18, 2017, 06:57:52 AM
just spoke to somebody in Elal and they're making the Dreamliner 2-2-2 in business not reverse herringbone 👎
Only time will tell. But IMHO, a GDS loaded seatmap vs a phone rep, I would say DROPR.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on May 18, 2017, 07:00:23 AM
Only time will tell. But IMHO, a GDS loaded seatmap vs a phone rep, I would say DROPR.
not phone rep their sales rep in yerushalyim came trying to convince our office to convince business class customers who left in the past year to come back saying the business is going to be more like first because its 2-2-2 instead of 2-3-2  ::)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on May 18, 2017, 09:52:44 AM
not phone rep their sales rep in yerushalyim came trying to convince our office to convince business class customers who left in the past year to come back saying the business is going to be more like first because its 2-2-2 instead of 2-3-2  ::)

Yeah... still DROPR in my book.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 18, 2017, 10:25:04 AM
GDS vs ELAL sales rep.
Who is right?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on May 19, 2017, 08:04:15 AM
Any word on which routes will get 787 service?
Elal phone agent advised me this week that YYZ will get the 787 by August!
Who knows!!!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 19, 2017, 08:12:41 AM
Elal phone agent advised me this week that YYZ will get the 787 by August!
Who knows!!!
Probably to compete with the AC 787 on that route. If it's true....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on May 19, 2017, 08:57:22 AM
Probably to compete with the AC 787 on that route. If it's true....
As a reminder, the 787 is a replacement for a 767
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 19, 2017, 09:38:35 AM
As a reminder, the 787 is a replacement for a 767
But it will also be replacing 747's. They'll probably just add more frequency to those routes. (El Al doesn't have 16 767's to replace)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 19, 2017, 10:26:46 AM
But it will also be replacing 747's. They'll probably just add more frequency to those routes. (El Al doesn't have 16 767's to replace)
Forget about BOS getting a 787
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on May 19, 2017, 10:30:33 AM
Forget about BOS getting a 787
Ok. Forgotten.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 19, 2017, 10:33:41 AM
Why is ELAL hiding all this, August is not so far away
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2017, 10:36:03 AM
Who says they know?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 19, 2017, 10:49:33 AM
Who says they know?
Don't you know this when you order the plane?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2017, 10:50:09 AM
Don't you know this when you order the plane?
The routes it will fly on? Of course not.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on May 19, 2017, 10:52:07 AM
Forget about BOS getting a 787
BOS route is being canceled once Maimons kid finishes school there.

If they announce the SFO route soon, we know he's going to Stanford or Berkeley for Grad school
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on May 19, 2017, 10:54:21 AM
The routes it will fly on? Of course not.
But we don't even know yet the configuration of the seats
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2017, 10:56:33 AM
BOS route is being canceled once Maimons kid finishes school there.

If they announce the SFO route soon, we know he's going to Stanford or Berkeley for Grad school
:D

But we don't even know yet the configuration of the seats
Sure we do.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: high end hobo on May 19, 2017, 04:37:21 PM
Just a reminder, an airline usually uses a new plane for shorthauls for the first month or two for crew training etc.

I wonder if that will be the case here and if so, on what routes
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on May 19, 2017, 05:32:40 PM
Just a reminder, an airline usually uses a new plane for shorthauls for the first month or two for crew training etc.

I wonder if that will be the case here and if so, on what routes
I guess European
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 03:37:59 AM
I'm​ attending the launch event they are hosting for the press and financial community in Tel Aviv with David Maimon and Boing's Vice Chairman.

As expected no First class

Main takeaway: business in 1-2-1 configuration

Premium Economy in 2-3-2 configuration

ViaSat wifi
Recardo seats
Panasonic video
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 03:51:37 AM
They are getting their 1st plane the 2nd week of September.

First flights to London to train the staff, then first route is to Newark
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on June 11, 2017, 03:54:22 AM
They are getting their 1st plane the 2nd week of September. No color yet on the first route
Have a strong feeling that EWR will be from the first ones...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 03:57:15 AM
Yeah I've just edited my post. First flights are to London for training purposes, then Newark indeed
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on June 11, 2017, 04:02:07 AM
Yeah I've just edited my post. First flights are to London for training purposes, then Newark indeed
Thanks for confirming it   i noticed 2 weeks ago that J class from Newark is more expensive than from JFK from Nov and on
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 04:04:48 AM
Well done. Yeah makes sense, they had VR tours of the new J product, it's a game changer for them
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 04:36:37 AM
.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 11, 2017, 04:38:46 AM
Any idea what dates they'll be flying to London?  I'd like to snag a one-way points ticket if possible!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on June 11, 2017, 04:39:57 AM
Looks quite solid.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 04:42:21 AM
Looked impressive. On par with competition as far as I could tell from the VR
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 11, 2017, 04:43:34 AM
Let's just hope the next refresh doesn't take 15 years!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 11, 2017, 04:59:42 AM
This now appears on the homepage:
https://www.elal.com/dreamliner (https://www.elal.com/dreamliner)

Y will drop from 32" to 31", although 15 seats will only have 30". 5" recline. Coat hook and adjustable headrest. 12" screens.

PE will be 38" with foot rests and 13" screens (12" in first row) + remotes.  19" width, 7" recline, adjustable headrest. USB and power outlets. Coat hook and bottle holder. Comes with blanket and pillow, bottled water, and amenity kit.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 11, 2017, 05:41:18 AM
חמורו של משיח
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Solma on June 11, 2017, 06:27:15 AM
Business class seems more spacious then on UA 77W
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 07:38:04 AM
Let's just hope the next refresh doesn't take 15 years!

I liked that Maimon started his speech by saying that they made several mistakes in the past and this a new beginning.. will wait and see.

His PR also prepared for him a punchline: "we had a dream, now we have a dreamliner"....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on June 11, 2017, 08:13:13 AM
.

Nice product!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Emkay on June 11, 2017, 08:18:06 AM
https://youtu.be/xRfabhMz6-g
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 09:44:22 AM
So it's a similar config to the UA 77W
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on June 11, 2017, 09:47:08 AM
So it's a similar config to the UA 77W

Correct, in a narrower space.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on June 11, 2017, 09:47:36 AM
Will EWR have it for Sukkos?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 09:49:10 AM
Too soon to tell at this stage but very unlikely
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 09:51:59 AM
Too soon to tell at this stage but very unlikely
The big question is if they will price their awards as J or F
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 09:54:41 AM
The big question is if they will price their awards as J or F

You're right. Technically it's called business, so F would be unfair, but you never know with them
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on June 11, 2017, 10:08:28 AM
The big question is if they will price their awards as J or F
Don't give them any ideas
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: hvaces42 on June 11, 2017, 10:18:18 AM
The big question is if they will price their awards as J or F
You can be sure they will do exactly that if it ever comes to the NYC or LAX route.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AsherO on June 11, 2017, 10:34:27 AM
חמורו של משיח

I don't know what you mean by that, but I like it :D

I liked that Maimon started his speech by saying that they made several mistakes in the past and this a new beginning.. will wait and see.

He can't be trusted, hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Don't give them any ideas

Its not a matter of if, its a matter of when.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 11, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
Too soon to tell at this stage but very unlikely
They're getting it in September and won't have EWR flights for Sukkos? Why not?
And what happened to the rumor of HKG getting it first?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 12:05:54 PM
They're getting it in September and won't have EWR flights for Sukkos? Why not?
And what happened to the rumor of HKG getting it first?

They are not 100% sure when they are getting it, possibly last week of August. Then a full week of technical testing in Israel to get the flying certification, plus a month of staff training to London. I don't see how they would have it ready for Soukos.. but you never know

No idea what happened with HKG. Maybe United's decision to put their Polaris on that route
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 11, 2017, 02:20:49 PM
Silly to charge more for flights with new plane. Childish.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on June 11, 2017, 02:23:16 PM
Silly to charge more for flights with new plane. Childish.
Well if DL and UA  rarely open lowest RBD, why shouldn't they charge more?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 11, 2017, 02:45:31 PM
Silly to charge more for flights with new plane. Childish.
Why is it childish to charge more for a better product?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 03:08:33 PM
Why is it childish to charge more for a better product?
Where do you guys see a higher charge? I checked Nov and December, didn't see higher prices for EWR
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 11, 2017, 03:09:48 PM
Where do you guys see a higher charge? I checked Nov and December, didn't see higher prices for EWR
I did not say that there is. Read the whole conversation.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 11, 2017, 03:20:07 PM
Why is it childish to charge more for a better product?
Are you a travel agent. Cant really explain...

Have you seen united charging more for 90 than 84?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 03:22:27 PM
Are you a travel agent. Cant really explain...

Have you seen united charging more for 90 than 84?
90 vs 84 is far different than comparing LY 777 to 787
777 is almost like PE of the 787, of course they are entitled to change more
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on June 11, 2017, 03:25:00 PM
I did not say that there is. Read the whole conversation.
Check round trip EWR TO TLV is over 3800  while JFK- TLV is under 3400
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on June 11, 2017, 04:16:55 PM
SEATMAP

https://www.elal.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/About-ELAL/EL%20AL%20Planes/787-9.pdf
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 11, 2017, 04:29:16 PM
Check round trip EWR TO TLV is over 3800  while JFK- TLV is under 3400
Cross the board or a specific date?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 05:15:19 PM
SEATMAP

https://www.elal.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/About-ELAL/EL%20AL%20Planes/787-9.pdf
page down here
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on June 11, 2017, 05:18:30 PM
Cross the board or a specific date?
I was checking NOV 5th
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on June 11, 2017, 05:26:30 PM
page down here

https://www.elal.com/he/about-ELAL/About-ELAL/Investor-Relations/Pages/Our-Fleet.aspx
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 11, 2017, 05:28:52 PM
https://www.elal.com/he/about-ELAL/About-ELAL/Investor-Relations/Pages/Our-Fleet.aspx

Very nice.

Haven't heard any expert opinions on how this plane overall compares to Delta and United
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 05:31:13 PM
Only 2 bassinet seats
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 11, 2017, 08:25:32 PM
https://www.elal.com/he/about-ELAL/About-ELAL/Investor-Relations/Pages/Our-Fleet.aspx
Don't they know their crowd?

2 usb power ports for every 3 seats in cattle class with Israelis.....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 11, 2017, 08:27:26 PM
Very nice.

Haven't heard any expert opinions on how this plane overall compares to Delta and United
I wrote on DDMS that J will be the worst of the 4.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 11, 2017, 08:38:03 PM
Don't they know their crowd?

2 usb power ports for every 3 seats in cattle class with Israelis.....
Same as all airlines, E gets 1 power between seats
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 08:47:34 PM
Don't they know their crowd?

2 usb power ports for every 3 seats in cattle class with Israelis.....
whats the difference between the USB power port and the USB media port?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 11, 2017, 09:07:59 PM
Same as all airlines, E gets 1 power between seats
But not all airlines have that kind of crowd on ALL their flights.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on June 11, 2017, 09:34:38 PM
I wrote on DDMS that J will be the worst of the 4.

Why do you say that?

With El Al you will get an on par seat, the best food and likely the best service (yes I said it!)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on June 11, 2017, 09:37:35 PM
Why do you say that?

With El Al you will get an on par seat, the best food and likely the best service (yes I said it!)

Plus King David lounge ex-TLV.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on June 11, 2017, 09:40:06 PM
Why do you say that?

With El Al you will get an on par seat, the best food and likely the best service (yes I said it!)
IINM, Dan was reffering only to the seat itself.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 11, 2017, 09:45:45 PM
Why do you say that?

With El Al you will get an on par seat, the best food and likely the best service (yes I said it!)
"It will have to be a narrower business class seat than United’s as the 787 is a couple of feet narrower than the 777. That means El Al will still likely have the worst business class seats in the market, but at least they’ll be playing in the same ballpark."
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 11, 2017, 11:06:18 PM
Why do you say that?

With El Al you will get an on par seat, the best food and likely the best service (yes I said it!)
Only talking about the plane/hard product.
Shame they didn't go reverse herringbone, but like UA, I guess it figures.

Also, food (aside from wine of course) is the same as any other airline if you want mehadrin, no?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 11, 2017, 11:17:38 PM
Only talking about the plane/hard product.
Shame they didn't go reverse herringbone, but like UA, I guess it figures.

Also, food (aside from wine of course) is the same as any other airline if you want mehadrin, no?
No. Ex TLV for sure not. Even the SKML is far more presentable and better than what UA and DL offer.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 11, 2017, 11:28:06 PM
90 vs 84 is far different than comparing LY 777 to 787
777 is almost like PE of the 787, of course they are entitled to change more
Well as I said as a travel agent who knows how pricing with airlines work and everything around it just doesn't make sense. And I've heard it today from other agents as well. It's not a  furniture store who asks more for Italian furniture. I can try to explain my self but I won't have the right words. Let's start with saying that airlines never like to outright say "that plane is  only good" also with elal changing aircrafts last minute every Monday and Thursday this will cause major chaos with customers when aircrafts will change. Basically airlines for that reason never sell you a ticket based on what kind of seats they will give you but rather by fare classes and for that reason. Now if J class will sell out quickly on the 787 flights and the price will  be high because only Z class is available, that is a different story.  UA never charged more for their flat bed seats tham their non flat beds to LAX. And for those and other reasons. Any travel agents disagree?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 11, 2017, 11:30:14 PM
Well as I said as a travel agent who knows how pricing with airlines work and everything around it just doesn't make sense. And I've heard it today from other agents as well. It's not a  furniture store who asks more for Italian furniture. I can try to explain my self but I won't have the right words. Let's start with saying that airlines never like to outright say "that plane is  only good" also with elal changing aircrafts last minute every Monday and Thursday this will cause major chaos with customers when aircrafts will change. Basically airlines for that reason never sell you a ticket based on what kind of seats they will give you but rather by fare classes and for that reason. Now if J class will sell out quickly on the 787 flights and the price will  be high because only Z class is available, that is a different story.  UA never charged more for their flat bed seats tham their non flat beds to LAX. And for those and other reasons. Any travel agents disagree?
Maybe the 787 will get 3 brand new codes for J
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Denverite on June 12, 2017, 12:45:16 AM
Well as I said as a travel agent who knows how pricing with airlines work and everything around it just doesn't make sense. And I've heard it today from other agents as well. It's not a  furniture store who asks more for Italian furniture. I can try to explain my self but I won't have the right words. Let's start with saying that airlines never like to outright say "that plane is  only good" also with elal changing aircrafts last minute every Monday and Thursday this will cause major chaos with customers when aircrafts will change. Basically airlines for that reason never sell you a ticket based on what kind of seats they will give you but rather by fare classes and for that reason. Now if J class will sell out quickly on the 787 flights and the price will  be high because only Z class is available, that is a different story.  UA never charged more for their flat bed seats tham their non flat beds to LAX. And for those and other reasons. Any travel agents disagree?

Interesting and thanks for explaining to those of us not in the business.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shimino1 on June 12, 2017, 05:39:07 AM
Now if J class will sell out quickly on the 787 flights and the price will  be high because only Z class is available, that is a different story.  UA never charged more for their flat bed seats tham their non flat beds to LAX. And for those and other reasons. Any travel agents disagree?
I am a travel agent and I agree with every word. My grandparents only fly UA Business (Used to only fly LY until one time it wasn't available and they had to fly United. Never looked back). They live in LA and I was presently surprised they didn't raise prices for the EWR-LAX leg when they switched to the 757 flat bed seats. It makes no sense to charge more for the seat when all you did was meet the competitions standards.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 08:43:23 AM
Well as I said as a travel agent who knows how pricing with airlines work and everything around it just doesn't make sense. And I've heard it today from other agents as well. It's not a  furniture store who asks more for Italian furniture. I can try to explain my self but I won't have the right words. Let's start with saying that airlines never like to outright say "that plane is  only good" also with elal changing aircrafts last minute every Monday and Thursday this will cause major chaos with customers when aircrafts will change. Basically airlines for that reason never sell you a ticket based on what kind of seats they will give you but rather by fare classes and for that reason. Now if J class will sell out quickly on the 787 flights and the price will  be high because only Z class is available, that is a different story.  UA never charged more for their flat bed seats tham their non flat beds to LAX. And for those and other reasons. Any travel agents disagree?
Yes. I disagree. Because they don't have first class anymore (which started at $6k+) they are likely to average out the price between the 2 cabins. They need to make up for the loss (though, I would note, that a very small percentage of F seats were sold out, and a large portion of those sold were for miles). Inventory change is not an issue, because they will be retrofitting their 777s in the near future. You need to realize, that since there are different fare classes currently in place on the 787, it's ok to charge different than on the the 777/747. If they sell 787 J for $3k, then what will they sell PE for, $1200? That's economy price. You don't have that fare class setup on the 777 (until they retrofit). It's no comparison to the UA 757 EWR - LAX or UA 84/90 where the cabins and fare classes stayed the same.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on June 12, 2017, 08:47:39 AM
They could also manipulate prices by only making seats in higher fare classes exist in the inventory. Or only sell 2 seats per plan in the discounted J bucket.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 08:52:54 AM
They could also manipulate prices by only making seats in higher fare classes exist in the inventory. Or only sell 2 seats per plan in the discounted J bucket.
Again, they are not charging for better furniture. It's a "different cabin" than the other planes. Once they eliminate First and add PE, Business has a whole different meaning, and deserves it's own pricing rules.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on June 12, 2017, 09:10:25 AM
Again, they are not charging for better furniture. It's a "different cabin" than the other planes. Once they eliminate First and add PE, Business has a whole different meaning, and deserves it's own pricing rules.
It was pointed out that with LY's recocord of switching planes at the last minute, it's difficult to charge a premium if they then switch out equipment. By charging the same, worst case, they could get by just by using F and J on old aircraft.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 09:26:09 AM
It was pointed out that with LY's recocord of switching planes at the last minute, it's difficult to charge a premium if they then switch out equipment.

Inventory change is not an issue, because they will be retrofitting their 777s in the near future.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on June 12, 2017, 09:42:55 AM
Yeah 'near' future.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on June 12, 2017, 09:44:00 AM
Also, I wonder if the retrofit will see 3-4-3 in econ ala united.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 12, 2017, 09:45:05 AM
Also, I wonder if the retrofit will see 3-4-3 in econ ala united.
I'd be surprised if it doesn't.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on June 12, 2017, 09:47:03 AM
Also, curious that LY bought so many 787 in the first place instead of mixing in some 777 next generation. Is it just for marketing, or is there an actual business gain from using smaller planes from these markets (EWR, lax etc)?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 12, 2017, 09:51:52 AM
If I were LY I'd have 777s for heavy routes like EWR/JFK/LHR and 787s for thinner routes like BOS/HKG/LAX/MIA/ORD/YYZ. Maybe even TLV-SYD.
But they're LY so who knows. Clearly they're feeling a lot of pressure at EWR and the 787s are all they have to compete right now.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 09:54:45 AM
Also, curious that LY bought so many 787 in the first place instead of mixing in some 777 next generation. Is it just for marketing, or is there an actual business gain from using smaller planes from these markets (EWR, lax etc)?
They will probably add frequency on routes like JFK in exchange for 747s and that will give them a BIG advantage over the competition. It's been that way until today and they're almost always full, so adding even more frequency won't due them much harm....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 12, 2017, 09:58:04 AM
They will probably add frequency on routes like JFK in exchange for 747s and that will give them a BIG advantage over the competition. It's been that way until today and they're almost always full, so adding even more frequency won't due them much harm....
They will still have a frequency advantage over other airlines with 777s. Plus frequencies are expensive, especially with high labor costs, most people aren't willing to pay more.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 12, 2017, 10:00:53 AM
My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 12, 2017, 10:11:00 AM
My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)
Yeh, that makes sense. Thats around what j class is pricing right now.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 10:11:37 AM
My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)
Standard price for J was always $3500 besides for ex-TLV on the day flights
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 12, 2017, 10:17:04 AM
Yes. I disagree. Because they don't have first class anymore (which started at $6k+) they are likely to average out the price between the 2 cabins. They need to make up for the loss (though, I would note, that a very small percentage of F seats were sold out, and a large portion of those sold were for miles). Inventory change is not an issue, because they will be retrofitting their 777s in the near future. You need to realize, that since there are different fare classes currently in place on the 787, it's ok to charge different than on the the 777/747. If they sell 787 J for $3k, then what will they sell PE for, $1200? That's economy price. You don't have that fare class setup on the 777 (until they retrofit). It's no comparison to the UA 757 EWR - LAX or UA 84/90 where the cabins and fare classes stayed the same.
So you agree that F was not a huge profit at all, it went mostly for mileage or for upgrades. Now as chff pointed out. Put PE at 2k like all other airlines. Somewhere in the middle between Y and J.  You were talking about inventory change I guess you meant to say equipment change (are you a travel agent  ;) )  and you were saying the 777 will be retrofit soon, well I think it will take a while. In any case the fact that F is gone still doesn't answer why J class out of EWR should price differently than JFK. Heck until  now JFK had the much nicer 744 and they knew that people routinely paid a lot more to e on that flight and still they understood that J class should have the same price.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 12, 2017, 10:22:54 AM
Standard price for J was always $3500 besides for ex-TLV on the day flights

My guess that the winter $3k price will go up to $3500 and the summer from $3500 to over $4000
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 12, 2017, 10:23:45 AM
In any case the fact that F is gone still doesn't answer why J class out of EWR should price differently than JFK. Heck until  now JFK had the much nicer 744 and they knew that people routinely paid a lot more to e on that flight and still they understood that J class should have the same price.

Code: [Select]
>FQDNYCTLV/ALY/IL/D4DEC17*4JAN17/CJ
FQDNYCTLV/ALY/IL/D4DEC17*4JAN17/CJ                                             
ROE 1.000000 NEAREST 1.00 USD                                                   
04DEC17*04JAN18/LY NYCTLV/NLX;AT/TPM  5659/MPM  6812                           
** FOR LY UPGRADE INFO SEE INFO NOTE LY/0310 **                                 
LN FARE BASIS    OW   USD  RT   B PEN  DATES/DAYS   AP MIN MAX R               
01 JSAPNYC                 2418 J  @  S20OCT  23MAR@21@SU@ 12M M               
02 JIPUS                   2920 J  @     -     -   @ - SU@ 12M M               
03 JUSIL                   3489 J  @     -     -   @ - SU@ 12M R               


>FQN1*FL
FL.FLT APPLICATION                                                             
                                                                               
  OUTBOUND -                                                                   
  THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON                                                 
      ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING                                             
        LY FLIGHT 002                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 004                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 008                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 014                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 022.                                                         
                                                                               
  AND - INBOUND -                                                               
  THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON                                                 
      ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING                                             
        LY FLIGHT 001                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 003                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 007                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 011                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 021.   
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mgarfin on June 12, 2017, 01:18:26 PM
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4974881,00.html
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 01:49:37 PM
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4974881,00.html
Quite sure that's "Rishon L'tzion", not Ashdod. Was the worst plane in their fleet.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on June 12, 2017, 01:54:26 PM
Wonder if we'll see a price war between LY and UA in Newark, or see UA speed up delivery on the 2nd new 777 for the route.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 12, 2017, 02:05:46 PM
or see UA speed up delivery on the 2nd new 777 for the route.
Please, Al tiftach peh....
(Most people still fly Y. To prove it, count the seats....)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yelped on June 12, 2017, 04:34:52 PM
Please, Al tiftach peh....
(Most people still fly Y. To prove it, count the seats....)
Exactly.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 12, 2017, 04:35:44 PM
My guess that the winter $3k price will go up to $3500 and the summer from $3500 to over $4000
My guess is in the end they will have more planes, increase frequency and prices will stay stable or come down

EWR flight will probably be Z0J0 once the person responsible shows up for work
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 12, 2017, 07:00:41 PM
In today's Globes, Maimon says: "The prices are subject to supply, demand, and competition, not to the introduction of new airplanes."

Not sure how aware he is of prices anyway
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shimino1 on June 12, 2017, 07:08:19 PM
I think that Elal charging more for business class just because now they aren't miles behind the competition is like United charging more for promising not to beat the cr*p  out of you.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: elya on June 13, 2017, 12:42:10 AM
I think that Elal charging more for business class just because now they aren't miles behind the competition is like United charging more for promising not to beat the cr*p  out of you.
Lol
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 14, 2017, 10:08:37 AM
An anonymous source (that's the way of reporting these days  ;) ) told me that they will upgrade the food service on the new planes as well. You will be able to order a specific meal from menu etc. Guess they wanna keep up the idea to fly ELAL for their food.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 14, 2017, 10:12:16 AM
An anonymous source (that's the way of reporting these days  ;) ) told me that they will upgrade the food service on the new planes as well. You will be able to order a specific meal from menu etc. Guess they wanna keep up the idea to fly ELAL for their food.

Interesting.
I find it surprising they made no mention of this during their launch events. Isn't that something they would already advertise?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 14, 2017, 10:27:43 AM
An anonymous source (that's the way of reporting these days  ;) ) told me that they will upgrade the food service on the new planes as well. You will be able to order a specific meal from menu etc. Guess they wanna keep up the idea to fly ELAL for their food.
For Mehadrin?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 14, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
For Mehadrin?
If he would know this info I would've posted it.  ;)

I will try to dig in further. If the option would be for Mehadrin it would be really awesome.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on June 14, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
An anonymous source (that's the way of reporting these days  ;) ) told me that they will upgrade the food service on the new planes as well. You will be able to order a specific meal from menu etc. Guess they wanna keep up the idea to fly ELAL for their food.
Was that a source close to the CEO or CFO?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 14, 2017, 05:24:40 PM
If he would know this info I would've posted it.  ;)

I will try to dig in further. If the option would be for Mehadrin it would be really awesome.
Do you mean in-flight? Because LY has always had the option to order special meals even for Mehadrin (Fish, children, Dairy, etc.)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Solma on June 15, 2017, 02:24:44 PM
https://thedesignair.net/2017/06/12/el-al-showcase-new-dreamliner-cabin-by-priestmangoode/
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 02:36:09 PM
https://thedesignair.net/2017/06/12/el-al-showcase-new-dreamliner-cabin-by-priestmangoode/
1. Those economy seats look horrendous.
2. The business seats are indeed narrow as I wrote they would be. 2" narrower than the UA 772/77W.
3. The ROI for a website redesign would be about 1,000x the ROI from this "brand identity for each class" business...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 15, 2017, 02:38:57 PM
An anonymous source (that's the way of reporting these days  ;) ) told me that they will upgrade the food service on the new planes as well. You will be able to order a specific meal from menu etc. Guess they wanna keep up the idea to fly ELAL for their food.
Code: [Select]
SPML - SPECIAL MEAL - FOR FIRST CLASS BOOKINGS :      UPDATED:08JAN17         
                                                                               
  WHEN REQUESTING SPECIAL MEALS, OTHER THAN THOSE PREVIOUSLY LISTED USE         
  SPML SSR FOLLLOWED BY FREE TEXT .                                             
  EXAMPLE:                                                                     
  SR SPML-GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST WITH VEGETABLES NO ONIONS                     
                                                                               
 - FOR BUSINESS CLASS BOOKINGS:                                                 
 WHEN REQUESTING SALAD MEAL, OTHER THAN THOSE PREVIOUSLY LISTED, USE SPML .     
 EXAMPLE:                                                                       
 SR SPML-SALAD MEAL**                                                           
 ** NO OTHER FREE TEXT IS ALLOWED.                                             
 IN CASE OF OTHER REQUEST IN FREE TEXT, MEAL WILL NOT BE PROVIDED.             
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on June 15, 2017, 02:40:58 PM
Is it just me or does Premium Economy look a lot more like "Economy Plus"?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 15, 2017, 02:46:29 PM
2. The business seats are indeed narrow as I wrote they would be. 2" narrower than the UA 772/77W.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude the seats would have be narrower when the 787 is more than a foot narrower than the 777... unless you thought someone would be on the wing...  ;)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 02:51:04 PM
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude the seats would have be narrower when the 787 is more than a foot narrower than the 777... unless you thought someone would be on the wing...  ;)
They're not the same seats/manufacturer.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 15, 2017, 02:55:23 PM
Even still... something has to give when you're dealing with 6% less real estate.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 02:59:17 PM
Even still... something has to give when you're dealing with 6% less real estate.
You can do a 1-2-1 with more space than UA, LY just chose not to, because, LY.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 15, 2017, 03:03:35 PM
You can do a 1-2-1 with more space than UA, LY just chose not to, because, LY.

I imagine it's not easy for LY on a 787 to have the same seat width, let alone more, than LY on a 777...  If it were, don't you think they would have done it?

There are only two things airline can change to accomplish that: aisle width and/or non-seat seat width.  There must be some rationale (legal, business, or otherwise) that precluded that option.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 15, 2017, 03:05:11 PM
You can do a 1-2-1 with more space than UA, LY just chose not to, because, LY.
You honestly believe that they intentionally made their seats narrower to make people less comfortable? C'mon, they finally invested in a better product. Let's give them credit where credit is due....

Can't wait for your upcoming trip report from the new J (make sure it's ex-TLV so you can review the King David too). I think you may actually be pleasantly surprised. It may not be as bad as you think.....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 03:08:27 PM
I imagine it's not easy for LY on a 787 to have the same seat width, let alone more, than LY on a 777...  If it were, don't you think they would have done it?

There are only two things airline can change to accomplish that: aisle width and/or non-seat seat width.  There must be some rationale (legal, business, or otherwise) that precluded that option.
You honestly believe that they intentionally made their seats narrower to make people less comfortable? C'mon, they finally invested in a better product. Let's give them credit where credit is due....

Can't wait for your upcoming trip report from the new J (make sure it's ex-TLV so you can review the King David too). I think you may actually be pleasantly surprised. It may not be as bad as you think.....
What in the world?
They went with a dense configuration. They could have done reverse herringbone and had a more spacious seat than UA.
Instead they went dense and have a narrow business seat.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 15, 2017, 03:14:32 PM
What makes you think the seat width would have been increased had LY chosen reverse herringbone?

AC has reverse herringbone on their 787 and the seat width is... 21 inches.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
What does SG mean by 21-26" width on AAs 787?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 15, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
No idea.

Also... airlines that have RH on 787:

VN is 21.

KL is 20.25.

AM takes cake at 20.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on June 15, 2017, 03:32:56 PM
Here's my take...

As someone who has flown El Al pretty regularly over the past decade+, I couldn't be happier with the new business class seats.

1-2-1 proper flat bed seats on a Dreamliner is a dream come true and anyone complaining about the small details doesn't realize what a game changer this is for El Al

For 99% of El Al flyers, the only complaint will be the cell phone reception issues when on the ground
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 15, 2017, 03:34:02 PM
+1
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 15, 2017, 03:35:19 PM
Couldn't agree more
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on June 15, 2017, 03:38:11 PM
Code: [Select]
SPML - SPECIAL MEAL - FOR FIRST CLASS BOOKINGS :      UPDATED:08JAN17         
                                                                               
  WHEN REQUESTING SPECIAL MEALS, OTHER THAN THOSE PREVIOUSLY LISTED USE         
  SPML SSR FOLLLOWED BY FREE TEXT .                                             
  EXAMPLE:                                                                     
  SR SPML-GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST WITH VEGETABLES NO ONIONS                     
                                                                               
 - FOR BUSINESS CLASS BOOKINGS:                                                 
 WHEN REQUESTING SALAD MEAL, OTHER THAN THOSE PREVIOUSLY LISTED, USE SPML .     
 EXAMPLE:                                                                       
 SR SPML-SALAD MEAL**                                                           
 ** NO OTHER FREE TEXT IS ALLOWED.                                             
 IN CASE OF OTHER REQUEST IN FREE TEXT, MEAL WILL NOT BE PROVIDED.             

That's awesome. I'm flying next week let's try Fleish Cholent mit Kishka
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 15, 2017, 03:39:41 PM
That's awesome. I'm flying next week let's try Fleish Cholent mit Kishka
F class only
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 15, 2017, 04:21:36 PM
F class only
Yeh that's exactly what my source told me. ..... Like We offer now in first class.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 05:15:43 PM
Can't wait for your upcoming trip report from the new J (make sure it's ex-TLV so you can review the King David too). I think you may actually be pleasantly surprised. It may not be as bad as you think.....
If I didn't eat mehadrin only I would probably enjoy it a lot indeed.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 15, 2017, 05:25:55 PM
If I didn't eat mehadrin only I would probably enjoy it a lot indeed.
Um... The standard food on El Al is at least as "mehadrin" as the Waldarf Astoria Jerusalem.....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 05:28:02 PM
Um... The standard food on El Al is at least as "mehadrin" as the Waldarf Astoria.....
How so?
There is no mashgiach on the plane and there are many reports that the crew uses the oven to heat up their own food.
The OU themselves say to order a mehadrin meal due to that issue.

The WA has mashgichim and they say that only mehadrin food is used in the hotel.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 05:52:32 PM
How so?
There is no mashgiach on the plane and there are many reports that the crew uses the oven to heat up their own food.
The OU themselves say to order a mehadrin meal due to that issue.

The WA has mashgichim and they say that only mehadrin food is used in the hotel.
Also, does ElAl even claim to only use mehadrin ingredients?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 05:53:31 PM
Also, does ElAl even claim to only use mehadrin ingredients?
I think ex-NYC they do and ex-TLV they don't, but CMIIW.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 05:54:59 PM
I think ex-NYC they do and ex-TLV they don't, but CMIIW.
I guess if ex-NYC they are using American hechsherim then that would be the case but not ex TLV
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 15, 2017, 06:01:01 PM
How so?
There is no mashgiach on the plane and there are many reports that the crew uses the oven to heat up their own food.
The OU themselves say to order a mehadrin meal due to that issue.

The WA has mashgichim and they say that only mehadrin food is used in the hotel.
Interesting point. I've never heard about the oven issue before. Only regarding the food, I heard from a pretty decent source, that the kashrus level of the non-mehadrin is basically the same as the mehadrin with LY, and is made in the same kitchen, only that the mehadrin is sealed.
But is that really what will stop you from reviewing their product? I can't see why the non-mehadrin food should be so much better. I'm not saying this from experience - I've only tried one -  but why would it be so different?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 06:03:58 PM
Interesting point. I've never heard about the oven issue before. Only regarding the food, I heard from a pretty decent source, that the kashrus level of the non-mehadrin is basically the same as the mehadrin with LY, and is made in the same kitchen, only that the mehadrin is sealed.
But is that really what will stop you from reviewing their product? I can't see why the non-mehadrin food should be so much better. I'm not saying this from experience - I've only tried one -  but why would it be so different?
Oven issue is a famous one, even their frum pilots say as much.

I've never seen any reason to go out of my way to pay a ton of miles and YQ for an inferior product in the past and I don't see how this changes anything. People say the non-mehadrin food is a treat, I've never heard that about the mehadrin food.

I'm booked on UAs 77W in J for 140K. I don't see any reason to change that.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 15, 2017, 06:23:33 PM
I'm booked on UAs 77W in J for 140K. I don't see any reason to change that.
1) For the soft product (which most say beats all the competition on this route)
2) You can't say so much gossip on an airline that you refuse to even give a chance
3) To report to your tens of thousands of readers who would love to hear your professional analysis and comparison to the other airlines. I don't think it's even fair journalism to always write a one-sided view because your being stingy on 30k miles (the difference on a o/w) that you practically earn in a jiffy. Especially when that is the most flown route by your readers. I believe even Lucky said he plans on reviewing it when they start flying.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 06:33:25 PM
1) For the soft product (which most say beats all the competition on this route)
2) You can't say so much gossip on an airline that you refuse to even give a chance
3) To report to your tens of thousands of readers who would love to hear your professional analysis and comparison to the other airlines. I don't think it's even fair journalism to always write a one-sided view because your being stingy on 30k miles (the difference on a o/w) that you practically earn in a jiffy. Especially when that is the most flown route by your readers. I believe even Lucky said he plans on reviewing it when they start flying.
1. Are you serious? The vast majority of people say the service is horrendous, even worse than typically horrendous Israeli service that you expect. Even more so if you're frum. There have been hundreds of LY horror stories posted in DD comments, DDF, and DDFB.

2. I don't gossip Saying their current J is a joke, their website is a joke, and their mileage program is a joke compared to the competition isn't gossip.

3. I'm not a journalist or an airline reviewer. I happen to write my experience traveling when I have the time. Lucky's entire kuntz is reviewing flights.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
1. Are you serious? The vast majority of people say the service is horrendous, even worse than typically horrendous Israeli service that you expect. Even more so if you're frum. There have been hundreds of LY horror stories posted in DD comments, DDF, and DDFB.

2. I don't gossip Saying their current J is a joke, their website is a joke, and their mileage program is a joke compared to the competition isn't gossip.

3. I'm not a journalist or an airline reviewer. I happen to write my experience traveling when I have the time. Lucky's entire kuntz is reviewing flights.
1. Even j?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 15, 2017, 07:46:27 PM
1. Are you serious? The vast majority of people say the service is horrendous, even worse than typically horrendous Israeli service that you expect. Even more so if you're frum. There have been hundreds of LY horror stories posted in DD comments, DDF, and DDFB.
There happens to be a thread here on DDF (paging TimT) of many people giving raving reviews as well. But let's put aside the style to bash LY, it's no secret that every airline has plenty horror stories. Being in the line as a TA for a few years already, I've seen pretty much everything. And I can say that my (clients) worst horror stories have actually been will DL, CX and UA etc.. In the DL incident where they denied boarding to a J class revenue paying passenger from TLV (and they even admit afterward that they completely erred) and no matter how much fighting including a DOT complaint they wouldn't compensate more than 20k Skypesos, makes Ilherman's incident with LY look like a joke. While almost every passenger who was placed on a leased aircraft who sent a decently written complaint to LY this past winter got compensated with free flight vouchers (at least business passengers). I'm no fan of LY. I can write my own book of horror stories, but what I do recognize is that they are all the same garbage. They all mistreat and take advantage of their customers. But for some reason, my LY elite clients seem more committed to LY than my *A elites are to *A. There must be some charm there....
Quote
2. I don't gossip Saying their current J is a joke
true
Quote
their website is a joke
They renewed their website a couple of years ago already....
Quote
and their mileage program is a joke compared to the competition
1) That's to the US. Their award chart to Europe (especially during promotions) can be a real steal.
2) You forget to mention that availability with LY puts all of them together to shame...

Bottom line, everyone sees what they want to see. And you for example will refuse to see anything positive in this airline. That you didn't fly LY until today, was totally understood. From here on, I believe it's all ego...
I said my piece......
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 15, 2017, 08:22:05 PM
There happens to be a thread here on DDF (paging TimT) of many people giving raving reviews as well. But let's put aside the style to bash LY, it's no secret that every airline has plenty horror stories. Being in the line as a TA for a few years already, I've seen pretty much everything. And I can say that my (clients) worst horror stories have actually been will DL, CX and UA etc.. In the DL incident where they denied boarding to a J class revenue paying passenger from TLV (and they even admit afterward that they completely erred) and no matter how much fighting including a DOT complaint they wouldn't compensate more than 20k Skypesos, makes Ilherman's incident with LY look like a joke. While almost every passenger who was placed on a leased aircraft who sent a decently written complaint to LY this past winter got compensated with free flight vouchers (at least business passengers). I'm no fan of LY. I can write my own book of horror stories, but what I do recognize is that they are all the same garbage. They all mistreat and take advantage of their customers. But for some reason, my LY elite clients seem more committed to LY than my *A elites are to *A. There must be some charm there....trueThey renewed their website a couple of years ago already....1) That's to the US. They're award chart to Europe (especially during promotions) can be a real steal.
2) You forget to mention that availability with LY puts all of them together to shame...

Bottom line, everyone sees what they want to see. And you for example will refuse to see anything positive in this airline. That you didn't fly LY until today, was totally understood. From here on, I believe it's all ego...
I said my piece......
Part of their commitment is ideological in their allegiance to Israel.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 15, 2017, 09:10:04 PM
1. Are you serious? The vast majority of people say the service is horrendous, even worse than typically horrendous Israeli service that you expect. Even more so if you're frum. There have been hundreds of LY horror stories posted in DD comments, DDF, and DDFB.

To clarify most stories with the bed service with LY is in Y. Indeed they treat their Y pax like $hit. However in premium classes people actually like the service very much.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 15, 2017, 09:11:30 PM
There happens to be a thread here on DDF (paging TimT) of many people giving raving reviews as well. But let's put aside the style to bash LY, it's no secret that every airline has plenty horror stories. Being in the line as a TA for a few years already, I've seen pretty much everything. And I can say that my (clients) worst horror stories have actually been will DL, CX and UA etc.. In the DL incident where they denied boarding to a J class revenue paying passenger from TLV (and they even admit afterward that they completely erred) and no matter how much fighting including a DOT complaint they wouldn't compensate more than 20k Skypesos, makes Ilherman's incident with LY look like a joke. While almost every passenger who was placed on a leased aircraft who sent a decently written complaint to LY this past winter got compensated with free flight vouchers (at least business passengers). I'm no fan of LY. I can write my own book of horror stories, but what I do recognize is that they are all the same garbage. They all mistreat and take advantage of their customers. But for some reason, my LY elite clients seem more committed to LY than my *A elites are to *A. There must be some charm there....trueThey renewed their website a couple of years ago already....1) That's to the US. Their award chart to Europe (especially during promotions) can be a real steal.
2) You forget to mention that availability with LY puts all of them together to shame...

Bottom line, everyone sees what they want to see. And you for example will refuse to see anything positive in this airline. That you didn't fly LY until today, was totally understood. From here on, I believe it's all ego...
I said my piece......
Your point about the free business class flights for whoever travelled on the leased planes. The data is not correct. On Some planes they did give out the vouchers but some others have gotten no where with their horrendous customer relations team.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 15, 2017, 09:14:22 PM
Um... The standard food on El Al is at least as "mehadrin" as the Waldarf Astoria Jerusalem.....
This is false. Waldorf "officially" uses only Rabanut mehadrin meat. ELAL standard "officially" used plain Rabanut which is close to nothing... Big difference. A lot a lot of people would eat Mehadrin but not plain Rabanut.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Hershelsdeals on June 15, 2017, 09:32:56 PM
And this

LONDON: El Al has been named the worst airliner for cleanliness and noise in a new list compiled by Heathrow Airport. @KolHaolom



Haaretz:
Heathrow Airport Shames El Al as Dirtiest and Noisiest Airline

London hub is producing quarterly list in effort to 'shame' airliners into using more efficient planes
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.795965?v=A7149869068E0795BAF2F887F1DD9642


Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 15, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
2) You forget to mention that availability with LY puts all of them together to shame...
Airlines with high YQ generally have better award availability.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 10:03:16 PM
To clarify most stories with the bed service with LY is in Y. Indeed they treat their Y pax like $hit. However in premium classes people actually like the service very much.
Didn't you have a premium pax story?
TimT?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 10:05:19 PM
Airlines with high YQ generally have better award availability.
True.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2017, 10:07:25 PM
There happens to be a thread here on DDF (paging TimT) of many people giving raving reviews as well. But let's put aside the style to bash LY, it's no secret that every airline has plenty horror stories. Being in the line as a TA for a few years already, I've seen pretty much everything. And I can say that my (clients) worst horror stories have actually been will DL, CX and UA etc.. In the DL incident where they denied boarding to a J class revenue paying passenger from TLV (and they even admit afterward that they completely erred) and no matter how much fighting including a DOT complaint they wouldn't compensate more than 20k Skypesos, makes Ilherman's incident with LY look like a joke. While almost every passenger who was placed on a leased aircraft who sent a decently written complaint to LY this past winter got compensated with free flight vouchers (at least business passengers). I'm no fan of LY. I can write my own book of horror stories, but what I do recognize is that they are all the same garbage. They all mistreat and take advantage of their customers. But for some reason, my LY elite clients seem more committed to LY than my *A elites are to *A. There must be some charm there....trueThey renewed their website a couple of years ago already....1) That's to the US. Their award chart to Europe (especially during promotions) can be a real steal.
2) You forget to mention that availability with LY puts all of them together to shame...

Bottom line, everyone sees what they want to see. And you for example will refuse to see anything positive in this airline. That you didn't fly LY until today, was totally understood. From here on, I believe it's all ego...
I said my piece......
Do those pax eat the regular meals?

Either way, I tried to fly LT in 2015 before the deval. There was no award space.
The guy that devalued Matmid that reached out to me offered to open up F award space for a daytime flight, but not a redeye, so I stuck with my US J redeye ticket.
The LY redeye wound up going out 0/8 in F.

In other news, tell your BKK pax to enjoy Wamos Air  ;D
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 01:27:39 AM
Do those pax eat the regular meals?

Either way, I tried to fly LT in 2015 before the deval. There was no award space.
The guy that devalued Matmid that reached out to me offered to open up F award space for a daytime flight, but not a redeye, so I stuck with my US J redeye ticket.
The LY redeye wound up going out 0/8 in F.

In other news, tell your BKK pax to enjoy Wamos Air  ;D
All my clients order only mehadrin.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Emkay on June 16, 2017, 02:27:38 AM


1. Are you serious? The vast majority of people say the service is horrendous, even worse than typically horrendous Israeli service that you expect. Even more so if you're frum. There have been hundreds of LY horror stories posted in DD comments, DDF, and DDFB.

Not premium. You have been told that more than once.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on June 16, 2017, 04:17:14 AM
Airlines with high YQ generally have better award availability.
$175 isn't high YQ for a OW
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 16, 2017, 05:23:25 AM
If I didn't eat mehadrin only I would probably enjoy it a lot indeed.

I was upgraded from J to F on the TLV-LAX both ways last week. I didn't see anyone get any special food order, however they definitely stepped up the quality and selection.

Personally I don't eat mehadrin, and it was quite amazing, it's like a 5 course meal.

Besides food the only improvement is that they now give the Bose NC wireless headset in F. It's a start.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 05:47:58 AM
Poll added. (Feel free to edit)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 05:54:28 AM
I personally would love to see a trip report comparing the UA 77W vs the LY 789. (unless you can't give up on that second set of pj's...)
Last time LY offered it to you, they asked for 162.5k for a inferior product than you can now get for 100k. (quickly, before they change that rate...) And the flight to EWR is always a red-eye.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:13:59 AM

Not premium. You have been told that more than once.
Like this?
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=60242.0
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:14:34 AM
I was upgraded from J to F on the TLV-LAX both ways last week. I didn't see anyone get any special food order, however they definitely stepped up the quality and selection.

Personally I don't eat mehadrin, and it was quite amazing, it's like a 5 course meal.

Besides food the only improvement is that they now give the Bose NC wireless headset in F. It's a start.
Yes, if you don't keep mehadrin, there's definitely a valid reason to fly LY. No argument.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:15:22 AM
$175 isn't high YQ for a OW
It is if you actually want to get where you're trying to go:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-09/the-best-and-worst-airlines-in-the-world
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:15:43 AM
I personally would love to see a trip report comparing the UA 77W vs the LY 789. (unless you can't give up on that second set of pj's...)
Last time LY offered it to you, they asked for 162.5k for a inferior product than you can now get for 100k. (quickly, before they change that rate...) And the flight to EWR is always a red-eye.
It's a moot point, my flight (if I take it) is in August.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Emkay on June 16, 2017, 08:23:34 AM
Like this?
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=60242.0
So you brought a single unclear case to show how the entire LY premium service sucks. Very persuasive.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:25:46 AM
So you brought a single unclear case to show how the entire LY premium service sucks. Very persuasive.
Didn't say it all stinks, just that I've read enough horror stories that I don't feel compelled to go out of my way and pay an extra 120K miles+$600 YQ for my family to fly them over UA one-way.
And even if I did it's a moot point as it's before the 789 is flying.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 08:25:51 AM
Like this?
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=60242.0
One story here and there, I will find you on ANY airline... Secondly, this was a reprotected passenger from UA which is always second class (with any airline)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 08:27:25 AM
Oops. Didn't see Emkay's reply....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:28:13 AM
Secondly, this was a reprotected passenger from UA which is always second class (with any airline)
Last time US put me on UA and I had no such issues. They even gladly warmed up my NKS Sesame Chicken.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 08:31:12 AM
Last time US put me on UA and I had no such issues. They even gladly warmed up my NKS Sesame Chicken.
Again, one specific incident.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 08:34:38 AM
Again, one specific incident.
Didn't say it all stinks, just that I've read enough horror stories that I don't feel compelled to go out of my way and pay an extra 120K miles+$600 YQ for my family to fly them over UA one-way.
And even if I did it's a moot point as it's before the 789 is flying.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AsherO on June 16, 2017, 08:41:58 AM
In the DL incident where they denied boarding to a J class revenue paying passenger from TLV (and they even admit afterward that they completely erred) and no matter how much fighting including a DOT complaint they wouldn't compensate more than 20k Skypesos, makes Ilherman's incident with LY look like a joke.

Something is missing from this story. I'm pretty sure there's legal mandatory compensation for IDB in both Israel and the USA.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 08:57:13 AM
Something is missing from this story. I'm pretty sure there's legal mandatory compensation for IDB in both Israel and the USA.
That's why we took it to a small claims court. But we keep getting stuck with Delta's address in New York City (they are officially located in Atlanta). If anyone has sued Delta in NYC before or can provide me with a legal address for DL, please let me know ASAP. This has been dragging on for nearly a year already.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: David Smith on June 16, 2017, 08:57:16 AM
Something is missing from this story. I'm pretty sure there's legal mandatory compensation for IDB in both Israel and the USA.
Legal mandatory compensation only helps you if the airline is willing to cooperate. If they're not, they stonewall you with ridiculous responses that completely ignore the facts of the complaint and the DoT parrots them back.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 09:04:05 AM
Legal mandatory compensation only helps you if the airline is willing to cooperate. If they're not, they stonewall you with ridiculous responses that completely ignore the facts of the complaint and the DoT parrots them back.
Exactly. Came a point (after about 6 months) where I gave up and sent the client to court
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 09:13:17 AM
That's why we took it to a small claims court. But we keep getting stuck with Delta's address in New York City (they are officially located in Atlanta). If anyone has sued Delta in NYC before or can provide me with a legal address for DL, please let me know ASAP. This has been dragging on for nearly a year already.
I am not aware of US mandatory compensation. In Israel it's definitely the law, and has to be paid within a certain time frame. There are a couple of Israeli law firms that specialize in this GIYF (maybe - as you'll find their website, not necessarily 3rd party reviews).

DL should have a legal address at JFK. Try looking up Delta Airlines in Jamaica, NY.

ETA: did you see the special section on their website: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/ticket-changes-refunds/israel-refund-or-compensation-request.html

Or did you try any of the addresses listed https://m.yellowpages.com/new-york-ny/delta-airlines-office
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 16, 2017, 09:19:45 AM
Dan,
You really should seperate El Al longhaul from El Al short/medium haul.  They are really two different ballgames altogether.  El Al has a very competitive hard and soft product to Europe (including Y, with 32" as opposed to 28-30" on the rest) , as well as top notch redemption opportunities and availability, with seasonal point discounts.

Also, you really should not expect a ridiculously posh business class product - that kind of over-the-top excess simply isn't part of Israeli culture like it is in the Gulf, for example (save for the top 0.5%, who are out of touch with reality at any rate).

But I still feel like your refusal to fly El Al stems from something else, more deeply rooted...  It really borders on neurosis.  You're willing to bring your own kosher on other airlines or fly other lesser quality business products - but not El Al.  Over a lousy inch or two of seat width?  And flying 2-3-2 Turkish is fine?

Really don't mean this to sound offensive, but it really isn't right to bash so much with 0 personal experience.  And as the others have said: plenty of positive stories for all the negative.  Personally, I've only had good experiences in both Y and J.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 09:30:31 AM
I never said anything about Europe-TLV flights. That's not my market.

Nor do I bash what I don't know firsthand. That's why I bash their current J/F seat specs, their website, and their mileage program.

I don't refuse to fly LY. I tried to fly them in F last time but they were stupidly stubborn.
I don't fly them because my last name is deals and I don't see any added value. I don't mind paying more for something that's a step up, but why should I pay an extra 120K miles+$600 over UA to fly my family there one-way?

I'd gladly fly them in J or F if there was a good deal.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 16, 2017, 09:34:38 AM
But I still feel like your refusal to fly El Al stems from something else, more deeply rooted...  It really borders on neurosis.  You're willing to bring your own kosher on other airlines or fly other lesser quality business products - but not El Al.  Over a lousy inch or two of seat width?  And flying 2-3-2 Turkish is fine?
Dan is married, he doesn't need another psychologist to help with it.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 09:34:46 AM
But I still feel like your refusal to fly El Al stems from something else, more deeply rooted...  It really borders on neurosis.  You're willing to bring your own kosher on other airlines or fly other lesser quality business products - but not El Al.  Over a lousy inch or two of seat width?  And flying 2-3-2 Turkish is fine?
I can't speak for @Dan, yet I could hear you saying similar things to me, given my attitude towards ELAL which is no secret here.

I view travel very differently than Dan does. It is not an end or an experience I look forward to, it's a necessity and a means towards an end of being where I need to be, when I need to be there.

I am open minded, and while I currently don't consider ELAL for my travel plans (which UNFORTUNATELY currently take me 3-4 times a year to TLV), that is based solely on 3 facts:

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do young man?

WHEN the facts change, I have no problem giving them a try.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: eli1571 on June 16, 2017, 09:42:48 AM
What is the Europe - tlv good deal everyone is on about ? 
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 16, 2017, 09:59:42 AM
What is the Europe - tlv good deal everyone is on about ? 
Firstly considering that many european airlines are fake J we are starting with low standards.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 10:08:52 AM
Or did you try any of the addresses listed https://m.yellowpages.com/new-york-ny/delta-airlines-office
I did. I sent it to the first one on the list (112 w34th street) and the court got back saying that it was undeliverable, and we must come up with a valid address
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 10:45:17 AM
I did. I sent it to the first one on the list (112 w34th street) and the court got back saying that it was undeliverable, and we must come up with a valid address
Nothing is stopping you from giving personal service at a DL ticket office.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 10:46:23 AM
Nothing is stopping you from giving personal service at a DL ticket office.
Sure. Address please?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 16, 2017, 10:48:14 AM
Sure. Address please?
JFK airport?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 11:13:01 AM
Sure. Address please?
LGA (you can also serve by mail or overnight courier such as UPS or FedEx):
(http://i.imgur.com/TWX4IO7.png)


Did you try just sending by mail to Delta Ticket Office at JFK and/or Laguardia?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 16, 2017, 11:32:23 AM
LGA (you can also serve by mail or overnight courier such as UPS or FedEx):
(http://i.imgur.com/TWX4IO7.png)


Did you try just sending by mail to Delta Ticket Office at JFK and/or Laguardia?

You cannot serve by mail or overnight courier.

You (as long as your not a party) can personally serve them at the airport, though.

"(a) Personal service upon a corporation or governmental subdivision shall be made by delivering the summons as follows:
1. upon any domestic or foreign corporation, to an officer, director, managing or general agent, or cashier or assistant cashier or to any other agent authorized by appointment or by law to receive service."
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 16, 2017, 11:35:06 AM
The main reason I haven't flown premium LY until now has been for two reasons: (i) the hard product, and (ii) the mileage program.

They're fixing the former (at least to be in line with competition), but they haven't (and I suspect won't) fix the latter.  As such, I'm still not going to fly them premium, unless I can book them using BP 50% in the next year.

All that said, I won't bash a product until I've flown it.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 11:45:37 AM
You cannot serve by mail or overnight courier.
Where do you get that from?

If it's small claims court, they usually tell you לכתחילה to serve by mail.

Also in other courts often the judge will authorize mail service.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 16, 2017, 11:47:21 AM
Where do you get that from?

If it's small claims court, they usually tell you לכתחילה to serve by mail.

Also in other courts often the judge will authorize mail service.

1) Personal experience. 2) Only the clerk does so initially.  3) Only with permission beforehand.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 16, 2017, 11:48:33 AM
You cannot serve by mail or overnight courier.

You (as long as your not a party) can personally serve them at the airport, though.

"(a) Personal service upon a corporation or governmental subdivision shall be made by delivering the summons as follows:
1. upon any domestic or foreign corporation, to an officer, director, managing or general agent, or cashier or assistant cashier or to any other agent authorized by appointment or by law to receive service."
Thank you. So I tell him to deliver at any ticketing counter at JFK or LGA?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 16, 2017, 11:50:43 AM
If by "him" you mean the plaintiff, then, no. If by "him," you mean someone else, then yes (provided you follow the below).

You cannot serve by mail or overnight courier.

You (as long as your not a party) can personally serve them at the airport, though.

"(a) Personal service upon a corporation or governmental subdivision shall be made by delivering the summons as follows:
1. upon any domestic or foreign corporation, to an officer, director, managing or general agent, or cashier or assistant cashier or to any other agent authorized by appointment or by law to receive service."
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 11:51:51 AM
1) Personal experience. 2) Only the clerk does so initially.  3) Only with permission beforehand.
1) Can't argue with personal experience (are you talking about NYC?).
2) I only sued once in small claims court, and as far as I can recall, I was told to serve papers by certified mail, which I had to do myself (and then bring mailing receipt as proof to the court IIRC).
3) True, which is what I said. A judge can authorize service by mail.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: hvaces42 on June 16, 2017, 11:55:23 AM
3) True, which is what I said. A judge can authorize service by mail.
Only for good cause shown why you cant serve personally.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 12:01:46 PM
Only for good cause shown why you cant serve personally.
I've recently seen papers where the judge hand-wrote that service should occur by mail. Though those papers were not a summons and complaint, but rather something relating to an ongoing proceeding or motion.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 16, 2017, 12:02:54 PM
@mods pls move the DL topic to the comp thread
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AJK on June 16, 2017, 12:03:04 PM
I've recently seen papers where the judge hand-wrote that service should occur by mail. Though those papers were not a summons and complaint, but rather something relating to an ongoing proceeding or motion.

Generally, anything subsequent to the complaint can occur by mail.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 16, 2017, 12:16:04 PM
and I would like to say (again?) I don't understand the outright bash against LY, I had good experience with them (not on-board but with their call center) and had really bad experience with other legacy carriers. every airline has their good and bad. I would like to know why everyone here when they fly LY they have to "apologize" why they couldn't fly with the other airlines.

@Dan - LY could be asking 200k for a RT business award, but how many times do UA/DL have saver? Like in a blue moon, so compare rather LY 200k vs UA 350k. Their YQ isn't outrageous, its lower then what they ask for rev bookings, and their cancellation fees are less then UA/DL.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 16, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
and I would like to say (again?) I don't understand the outright bash against LY, I had good experience with them (not on-board but with their call center) and had really bad experience with other legacy carriers. every airline has their good and bad. I would like to know why everyone here when they fly LY they have to "apologize" why they couldn't fly with the other airlines.
After all, that is what matters. You're on-board for over 10 hours at a time.

@Dan - LY could be asking 200k for a RT business award, but how many times do UA/DL have saver? Like in a blue moon, so compare rather LY 200k vs UA 350k. Their YQ isn't outrageous, its lower then what they ask for rev bookings, and their cancellation fees are less then UA/DL.
What are the options to earn 200k LY Matmid points, compared to the options with UA? And while you are probably correct about non-stop availability being better with LY than UA or DL saver, are there any decent alternatives for Matmid points when there's no non-stop availabilty?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 16, 2017, 01:18:45 PM
I had good experience with them (not on-board but with their call center)
Have you never flown them?

@Dan - LY could be asking 200k for a RT business award, but how many times do UA/DL have saver? Like in a blue moon, so compare rather LY 200k vs UA 350k. Their YQ isn't outrageous, its lower then what they ask for rev bookings, and their cancellation fees are less then UA/DL.
Plan B and other methods for those in the know.

Also I don't pay UA cancel fees, so obviously that makes things different for me personally.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 16, 2017, 01:32:01 PM
Have you never flown them?

Never flown them.

Plan B and other methods for those in the know.

Also I don't pay UA cancel fees, so obviously that makes things different for me personally.

I know of Plan B etc, but I'm talking generally

Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 16, 2017, 01:37:22 PM
Never flown them.
Then why are you commenting on whether they are a good experience or not?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 17, 2017, 04:45:38 PM
Then why are you commenting on whether they are a good experience or not?
For the same reason Dan can comment without having flown them....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 17, 2017, 10:26:53 PM
For the same reason Dan can comment without having flown them....
Lordy...saying you only had good experiences when you've never flown them as a reason someone else should fly them is ridiculous.

I never said I've had a bad experience with them. I said I haven't flown them because:

A. I don't see a compelling reason to pay a significant premium over UA to fly LY J over UA J given that I only eat SKML. And the premium is more than 120K+$600 for my family as I'd still need to spend another 100K to get my family to EWR!

B. Even when they reached out to me about my criticism of the LY downgrade and I asked to open F award space for my fam on a flight with 0/8 in F they would only do a daytime and not a redeye flight, despite the redeye also going out 0/8 in F.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on June 17, 2017, 10:27:01 PM
For the same reason Dan can comment without having flown them....
Which is why Dan has very clearly stated that he is basing on their poor mileage program and the like and has not spoken about the other aspects of their in flight experience.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 17, 2017, 10:35:40 PM
Which is why Dan has very clearly stated that he is basing on their poor mileage program and the like and has not spoken about the other aspects of their in flight experience.
You would think this is some esoteric concept or something...

Yes, I would indeed pay an extra 220K miles+$600 to have an experience that was meaningfully better. But that has not been the case and I don't see anything that will make that the case anytime soon. If someone said they serve Reserve Cut for the SKML, that would be another story :)

I'm not ruling it out, but as a value minded individual I just don't see the value add for me right now. Same reason I still drive a 2011 Altima that's been nearly totaled once by my brother. Same reason I used a Centro for some 5 years and currently use a 4 year old Note. Show me the value and I'll upgrade.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AsherO on June 17, 2017, 10:38:08 PM
2011 Altima that's been nearly totaled once by my brother.

POIDH :D

How old was your brother at the time?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 17, 2017, 10:43:28 PM
POIDH :D

How old was your brother at the time?
17

(http://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/17224310/83cc609ece44499a87402162e7107adf_2391376608_PHOTOS__Page_0001_Image_0001-505x284.jpg)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AsherO on June 17, 2017, 11:19:24 PM
17

(http://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/17224310/83cc609ece44499a87402162e7107adf_2391376608_PHOTOS__Page_0001_Image_0001-505x284.jpg)

Ouch!!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on June 17, 2017, 11:24:26 PM
Ouch!!
Cost Geico more to fix the damage than the car was worth :P
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 17, 2017, 11:45:00 PM
Cost Geico more to fix the damage than the car was worth :P

I really hope the car didn't suffer any damage to the frame, because that would be rather wreckless to be driving your family around in a compromised vehicle - and there would be massive value in replacing the car.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 18, 2017, 12:51:24 AM
You would think this is some esoteric concept or something...

Yes, I would indeed pay an extra 220K miles+$600 to have an experience that was meaningfully better. But that has not been the case and I don't see anything that will make that the case anytime soon. If someone said they serve Reserve Cut for the SKML, that would be another story :)

I'm not ruling it out, but as a value minded individual I just don't see the value add for me right now. Same reason I still drive a 2011 Altima that's been nearly totaled once by my brother. Same reason I used a Centro for some 5 years and currently use a 4 year old Note. Show me the value and I'll upgrade.
To add a LY amenity kit to your collection ;)
ETA: Meh, you raffle those things off anyway....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on June 18, 2017, 02:44:15 AM
Cost Geico more to fix the damage than the car was worth :P
Isn't that the definition of totaling a car?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 18, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Dan, to your story about elal not opening P class for you.. Of course you are  right that it's a company runed by a kindergarten and the same goes with my denied boarding story he was tktd on UA tkt stock and the check in manager was crazy. However the on board experience people seem to be very happy with. In general.

Another crazy beyond crazy story I had with elal today. Long story short. They gave compensation a free upgrade to business class round trip for a friend of mine. I emailed someone in customer relations that the flight is tomorrow and they should upgrade him. I get a call from them that the flight is sold out a day its not possible to upgrade the outbound only the return, and besides that she adds, the free upgrade is for one way only. So I told her please look on your email where you say round trip. After 5 minutes fighting about that she agrees to to me and says it was an error on her end and that the problem is that there are no seats on the plane. I checked the inventory and there is space all the way to miles inventory I tell her look there is space. She puts me on hold and she comes back that the inventory I see is only for travel agents.  ::) :o

I went back and forth with her for half hour and got no where! This was already the "customer relations" dept. A bunch of crazy people working there. They simply couldn't answer that 1+1=2.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 18, 2017, 01:47:37 PM
I think one of the main issues​ with LY is that there is a huge difference in how they treat customers with high status vs no-status.

One the one end the example of your friend, on the other end they would gladly guarantee a last minute seat in C class for their best customers.

I feel the difference is not as extreme with other airlines
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on June 18, 2017, 01:58:13 PM
Dan, to your story about elal not opening P class for you.. Of course you are  right that it's a company runed by a kindergarten and the same goes with my denied boarding story he was tktd on UA tkt stock and the check in manager was crazy. However the on board experience people seem to be very happy with. In general.

Another crazy beyond crazy story I had with elal today. Long story short. They gave compensation a free upgrade to business class round trip for a friend of mine. I emailed someone in customer relations that the flight is tomorrow and they should upgrade him. I get a call from them that the flight is sold out a day its not possible to upgrade the outbound only the return, and besides that she adds, the free upgrade is for one way only. So I told her please look on your email where you say round trip. After 5 minutes fighting about that she agrees to to me and says it was an error on her end and that the problem is that there are no seats on the plane. I checked the inventory and there is space all the way to miles inventory I tell her look there is space. She puts me on hold and she comes back that the inventory I see is only for travel agents.  ::) :o

I went back and forth with her for half hour and got no where! This was already the "customer relations" dept. A bunch of crazy people working there. They simply couldn't answer that 1+1=2.

It's a company DNA/culture problem. And until that changes, I doubt anything will change.

It's the Israeli mentality that:
1. We are the best,
2. You should be thankful to us,
3. There are millions of reasons why you should fly only with us (security, food, flag, ex-IAF pilots, schedule, excellent award availability, etc. etc.),
4. We speak your language,
5. הכי בבית בעולם,

So we don't need to make any effort to accommodate you.

Also, if you get something for "free" (as in award - or bonus in Israeli parlance - space, or an upgrade) you are robbing us, so it is the rightful duty of all airline agents to try to make sure you don't get anything for "free", or at least to reduce it's value as much as possible.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: elya on June 18, 2017, 01:58:37 PM
I think one of the main issues​ with LY is that there is a huge difference in how they treat customers with high status vs no-status.

One the one end the example of your friend, on the other end they would gladly guarantee a last minute seat in C class for their best customers.

I feel the difference is not as extreme with other airlines
+1 In addition with LY they dont even look at your status, just how much $ you spend.. Platinum status effectively means nothing if you got it without actually meeting the spend qualifications..
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 18, 2017, 02:05:10 PM
+1 In addition with LY they dont even look at your status, just how much $ you spend.. Platinum status effectively means nothing if you got it without actually meeting the spend qualifications..

Not so sure about that.  I know someone who was comped Platinum and was certainly upgraded on both European and long-haul flights.  And on the flights he wasn't upgraded on, they made sure to at least get him in Y+ and close off the next seat, if not the rest of the row.

Do regular flight crew and gate agents even have the capacity to determine total spend??
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 18, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
Dan, to your story about elal not opening P class for you.. Of course you are  right that it's a company runed by a kindergarten and the same goes with my denied boarding story he was tktd on UA tkt stock and the check in manager was crazy. However the on board experience people seem to be very happy with. In general.

Another crazy beyond crazy story I had with elal today. Long story short. They gave compensation a free upgrade to business class round trip for a friend of mine. I emailed someone in customer relations that the flight is tomorrow and they should upgrade him. I get a call from them that the flight is sold out a day its not possible to upgrade the outbound only the return, and besides that she adds, the free upgrade is for one way only. So I told her please look on your email where you say round trip. After 5 minutes fighting about that she agrees to to me and says it was an error on her end and that the problem is that there are no seats on the plane. I checked the inventory and there is space all the way to miles inventory I tell her look there is space. She puts me on hold and she comes back that the inventory I see is only for travel agents.  ::) :o

I went back and forth with her for half hour and got no where! This was already the "customer relations" dept. A bunch of crazy people working there. They simply couldn't answer that 1+1=2.
Perhaps the rules required R to upgrade? Was R available?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 18, 2017, 02:26:12 PM
Not so sure about that.  I know someone who was comped Platinum and was certainly upgraded on both European and long-haul flights.  And on the flights he wasn't upgraded on, they made sure to at least get him in Y+ and close off the next seat, if not the rest of the row.

Do regular flight crew and gate agents even have the capacity to determine total spend??
They don't, but they also have no say in the matter.
they get updated upgrade lists from headquarter half hour before departure. That's why most last minute free upgrades take place directly at the gate
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 18, 2017, 02:52:54 PM
They don't, but they also have no say in the matter.
they get updated upgrade lists from headquarter half hour before departure. That's why most last minute free upgrades take place directly at the gate

Thanks for the info, did not know that!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 18, 2017, 02:59:08 PM
Perhaps the rules required R to upgrade? Was R available?
1. I asked when I got it and they clearly said that as long there is a seat for sale they will apply the upgrade.

2. Heck, The class was and is still available as of right now. Even x class is available. LY7 tomorrow. Look it up. Wide open. Crazy.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: jj1000 on June 19, 2017, 04:26:55 PM
Same reason I used a Centro for some 5 years and currently use a 4 year old Note. Show me the value and I'll upgrade.
Screen quality. Blue light filter is a game changer for me.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on June 19, 2017, 05:13:14 PM
Screen quality. Blue light filter is a game changer for me.

I'd imagine that speed and battery life would also be high on the list.  Then again, who am I talk?  I was perfectly content with my BlackBerry Z30 until my work forced me to take an S7 Edge...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on June 20, 2017, 05:22:42 AM
just got an email from elal
from September until oct 29 it will fly to Europe
from oct 29 to EWR
from mar 18 to HKG
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on June 20, 2017, 07:17:08 AM
EL AL has stopped selling first class on one of their frequencies to London Heathrow as of September 10, 2017, and on their flight to Newark as of October 15, 2017, which is probably a good indication of the timeline with which we should expect these new routes to get the plane.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on June 20, 2017, 07:21:24 AM
If they only get one aircraft, then I'm not sure how they will go about every second flight to EWR. The flights to EWR depart TLV at 12:30am and don't return until 7:10am the following day.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on June 20, 2017, 02:56:30 PM
If they only get one aircraft, then I'm not sure how they will go about every second flight to EWR. The flights to EWR depart TLV at 12:30am and don't return until 7:10am the following day.

They are receiving one 787 every quarter.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on June 20, 2017, 03:59:39 PM
If they only get one aircraft, then I'm not sure how they will go about every second flight to EWR. The flights to EWR depart TLV at 12:30am and don't return until 7:10am the following day.
Had the same question. Truth of the matter is that probably no one in ELAL has thought about it yet....   Im not kidding. It is very possible..
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on June 20, 2017, 04:06:45 PM
They start with one dreamliner and one 777, and as they get more of them over time they will get rid of the legacy planes?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 21, 2017, 09:24:42 AM
Great news!!!

Hi Fly (Portuguese wet leasing airline), has just placed its first direct firm order with @Airbus for two A330-200s. #A330 /photo/1
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on June 21, 2017, 09:31:04 AM
Elal ordered 3 more 787s at PAS
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: efflpetzel on June 22, 2017, 12:04:58 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/06/22/el-al-new-business-class-seat/
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on July 03, 2017, 06:43:21 AM
just got an email from elal
from September until oct 29 it will fly to Europe
from oct 29 to EWR
from mar 18 to HKG
and now its on sale to EWR
$1750 in premium economy which is very decent pricing
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on July 03, 2017, 07:23:23 AM
it also seams like they didnt raise the price of business class award tix on the flights with the 787. It may make for a good redemption option if there is nice availibility
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on July 03, 2017, 07:36:21 AM
Do you think there will be any special fanfare / perks for the very first September London flight?  Or will they reserve that for the real inauguration?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 07:39:42 AM
Nice.
So it looks like the first flight to LHR will be Sep 12 and will fly daily on the 10:15am and return on the 3:25pm, and on occasion on the 5:15 outbound (e.g. Oct 1)
Starting to EWR on Sun Oct 29. Starting Oct 30 the flight will depart TLV 1:10am instead of 12:30am (arrival only 5 minutes later than the old schedule. Does the 789 fly that much quicker than the 772?) Thursday EWR - TLV will be moved from 2:15pm to 7:15pm (that leaves UA 84 as the only normal nonstop for Thursday in the winter). Hopefully they'll change that quickly.
Current Matmid rates to NY:
Economy - 700
Premium Economy - 1100
Business - 2000
Availability in J is even pretty decent (sorry pessimists):
Ex-TLV isn't available the first 30 days but then looks like this:
November:
 30
December:
1, 5, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 20, 21, 27

Ex EWR:
October:
31
November:
7, 15, 19, 20, 21, 22, 27, 28, 29
December:
2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 26, 27, 31
(most dates have only 1 seat available so far)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 07:47:48 AM
On the London route, you can purchase PE seating during the trial period for $200 o/w.
Interesting to note, that the TLV - LHR route is marketing as a 789 straight through Mar 22 but PE on that route is still not being sold as a separate cabin
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 08:09:29 AM
Starting 787 service to HKG on Mar 18.
Best of all! LY will be increasing frequency on the TLV - EWR route to 11 flights weekly (twice daily, besides Friday) starting March 25.

Source: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/273620/el-al-outlines-boeing-787-routes-from-sep-2017/
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 03, 2017, 08:16:37 AM
Starting 787 service to HKG on Mar 18.
Best of all! LY will be increasing frequency on the TLV - EWR route to 11 flights weekly (twice daily, besides Friday) starting March 25.

Source: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/273620/el-al-outlines-boeing-787-routes-from-sep-2017/
Looks like they are right!
If you check the April 2018 calendar, they introduce a second dreamliner route to EWR, leaving Israel at 13:50, and returning from EWR at 21:00
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on July 03, 2017, 08:17:39 AM
On the London route, you can purchase PE seating during the trial period for $200 o/w.
Interesting to note, that the TLV - LHR route is marketing as a 789 straight through Mar 22 but PE on that route is still not being sold as a separate cabin

Any idea what Y to biz would cost?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 08:43:37 AM
Any idea what Y to biz would cost?
Same as regular. 200 matmid or 70 + $55 (must be M class or higher)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on July 03, 2017, 08:53:16 AM
Looks like they are right!
If you check the April 2018 calendar, they introduce a second dreamliner route to EWR, leaving Israel at 13:50, and returning from EWR at 21:00
So how many 787 will they be putting on the EWR route when they have the 2 daily flights?
If its just 2 then even the smallest delay will throw them off schedule on the EWR-TLV 21:00 flight
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 08:55:43 AM
And the 787 flies faster.... LY 27 went from 1230A/700A to 110A/705A. Had that when LOT was forced to change from a 787 back to the 767 (when the 787s were grounded) and we had to revalited many tickets as they had to leave a half hour earlier
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 08:56:48 AM
it also seams like they didnt raise the price of business class award tix on the flights with the 787. It may make for a good redemption option if there is nice availibility

Business - 2000

Actually it will be going up to 2250 for "ticketing" after Oct. 29 (JFK too). Until then, you can still purchase at the old rate.
Upgrades will also be going up for ticketing on/after Oct 29:
Until Oct 28 - 700 or  225 + $200
Starting Oct 29 - 900 or 300 + $300
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 08:58:25 AM
Looks like they are right!
If you check the April 2018 calendar, they introduce a second dreamliner route to EWR, leaving Israel at 13:50, and returning from EWR at 21:00

Code: [Select]
AN25MAREWRTLV/ALY                                                               
** AMADEUS AVAILABILITY - AN ** TLV TEL AVIV YAFO.IL         265 SU 25MAR 0000 
 1   LY 028  C9 I9 D9 Z9 J8 R2 X1 /EWR B TLV 3  130P    655A+1E0/789      10:25
             W9 Q9 B9 P8 Y9 S9 M9 K9 V9 L9 H9 N9 G9 O9 U9 E9                   
 2   LY 026  C9 I9 D9 Z9 J8 R2 X1 /EWR B TLV 3  900P    225P+1E0/789      10:25
             W9 Q9 B5 P2 Y9 S9 M9 K9 V9 L9 H9 N9 G9 O9 EL                       
             SUBJECT TO GOVERNMENT APPROVAL                                     

Code: [Select]
TN25MAREWRTLV/ALY                                                               
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** TLV TEL AVIV YAFO.IL              25MAR18 01APR18 
 1   LY 028  X56  EWR B TLV 3  130P    655A+1 0 25MAR18 04APR18 789 10:25       
 2   LY 026  X56  EWR B TLV 3  900P    225P+1 0 25MAR18 04APR18 789 10:25       
 3   LY 026  6    EWR B TLV 3 1130P    510P+1 0 31MAR18 31MAR18 772 10:40       
NO MORE FLIGHTS  25MAR18  TO  01APR18                                           
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 08:58:44 AM
And the 787 flies faster.... LY 27 went from 1230A/600A to 110A/605A. Had that when LOT was forced to change from a 787 back to the 767 (when the 787s were grounded) and we had to revalited many tickets as they had to leave a half hour earlier
FTFY
The 7am arrival is only during the period when NY and TLV are 6hrs apart
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 03, 2017, 09:10:18 AM
Actually it will be going up to 2250 for "ticketing" after Oct. 29 (JFK too).

Where did you see that? Thx
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
Where did you see that? Thx
https://www.elal.com/he/FrequentFlyer/UtilizingPoints/BonusTicket/Pages/Utilizing-Bonus-Cards-Points.aspx

Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 03, 2017, 09:22:26 AM
https://www.elal.com/he/FrequentFlyer/UtilizingPoints/BonusTicket/Pages/Utilizing-Bonus-Cards-Points.aspx

Well spotted! That's a 12% deval.. and 22% for LA!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 10:36:01 AM
PE bonus books into P - and P is rev as well - $1598 for RT in NOV which is a steal - AC lowest is over $2k

ETA - AC N class is $1740 so not that of a diff
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: 159dallas on July 03, 2017, 11:26:23 AM
Just got an email announcing premium economy out of NYC starting oct 29 tickets on sale now
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 12:30:23 PM
PE bonus books into P - and P is rev as well - $1598 for RT in NOV which is a steal
Ex- TLV is pricing at $1749.58 for P class
Btw, the new PE includes 2 checked bags
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 12:32:12 PM
Btw, the new PE includes 2 checked bags

I think every airline gives 2 bags with PE
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 12:33:22 PM
Why did they move LY28 on Thurs (from Oct and on) to 7pm? You will be arriving on the short Fridays at 1230pm.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 03, 2017, 12:36:08 PM
Why did they move LY28 on Thurs in Nov/Dec to 7pm? You will be arriving on the short Fridays at 1230pm.

repost?
Thursday EWR - TLV will be moved from 2:15pm to 7:15pm (that leaves UA 84 as the only normal nonstop for Thursday in the winter). Hopefully they'll change that quickly.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 03, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
repost?

Sorry - didnt see that
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 04, 2017, 05:08:23 AM
They posted this on the website, regarding the Dreamliner flights to London during the September-October period:

"As of September 2017, EL AL Dreamliner aircraft will operate to European destinations. During this period, seating in Premium Economy will be offered with Economy Class service. The price for the seat is $200 or 600 points per direction​.​
Premium members from Gold tier and higher, and those with S, M or Y Class tickets are entitled to Premium Economy seating at no cost"
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mgarfin on July 12, 2017, 10:32:30 AM
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4988298,00.html
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on July 12, 2017, 11:10:38 AM
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4988298,00.html

At the bottom of that article, was a link to an article about LH operating a new A350 on MUC-TLV during August and September, I find the video there quite interesting. From both videos (LY and LH) it seems like aircraft tails are painted prior to final assembly.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4986688,00.html?utm_source=Taboola_internal&utm_medium=organic
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on July 12, 2017, 03:48:41 PM
Any chance the new PE will include lounge access?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 12, 2017, 03:55:39 PM
Any chance the new PE will include lounge access?

I find this hard to believe​. But who knows
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on July 12, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
I find this hard to believe​. But who knows
What about priority security line?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 12, 2017, 04:03:15 PM
What about priority security line?

No way
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 12, 2017, 05:28:57 PM
At the bottom of that article, was a link to an article about LH operating a new A350 on MUC-TLV during August and September, I find the video there quite interesting. From both videos (LY and LH) it seems like aircraft tails are painted prior to final assembly.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4986688,00.html?utm_source=Taboola_internal&utm_medium=organic
The tail part is always delivered to the assembly factory painted. Same for Airbus and Boeing. Forgot the reason to it
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on July 12, 2017, 05:48:12 PM
At the bottom of that article, was a link to an article about LH operating a new A350 on MUC-TLV during August and September, I find the video there quite interesting. From both videos (LY and LH) it seems like aircraft tails are painted prior to final assembly.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4986688,00.html?utm_source=Taboola_internal&utm_medium=organic (http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4986688,00.html?utm_source=Taboola_internal&utm_medium=organic)
The tail part is always delivered to the assembly factory painted. Same for Airbus and Boeing. Forgot the reason to it
https://www.wired.com/2013/09/boeing-787-9-gallery/

Quote
Like most airliners, the vertical part of the tail of the 787-9 – particularly the rudder – is painted before final assembly because it must be precisely balanced.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 18, 2017, 07:41:44 AM
"EL AL Israel Airlines today announced that it has selected Panasonic Avionics Corporation's (Panasonic) industry-leading eX3 inflight entertainment (IFE) system for its new fleet of 16 Boeing 787 Dreamliners.

Under terms of its agreement with Panasonic, EL AL will install eX3 across nine Boeing 787-9s and seven B787-8s, with the first aircraft being delivered in August 2017. The agreement also includes a 15-year contract for the provision of system maintenance by Panasonic Technical Services, including spares, repairs and logistics, at an optimized maintenance cost."
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: David Smith on July 18, 2017, 07:49:31 AM
Nothing about Wi-Fi on the longhauls?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 18, 2017, 07:53:35 AM
Nothing about Wi-Fi on the longhauls?

They already said they will have wifi through viasat
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: David Smith on July 18, 2017, 07:53:57 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on July 18, 2017, 01:48:44 PM
Will anyone here be on the inaugural September 12th flight to London?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on July 20, 2017, 10:14:13 PM
Just heard an LY exec on the radio saying that all flights for NYC will be dreamliner within 2-3 years. EWR expanding to twice daily as mentioned before and JFK to 5 or 6 daily.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on July 20, 2017, 10:33:36 PM
Just heard an LY exec on the radio saying that all flights for NYC will be dreamliner within 2-3 years. EWR expanding to twice daily as mentioned before and JFK to 5 or 6 daily.
I will eat my hat when this happens. Such crap.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on July 20, 2017, 10:36:59 PM
Anyone figured out yet how it's possible to operate everyday one 787 EX TLV and EX EWR ?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on July 21, 2017, 12:04:15 AM
Anyone figured out yet how it's possible to operate everyday one 787 EX TLV and EX EWR ?
we must say they are getting 2, but possible that the second will only arrive end of October
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on July 21, 2017, 12:34:08 AM
I will eat my hat when this happens. Such crap.
Why?
It will take 5 787s just to replace the lift of 3 747s.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 21, 2017, 01:13:03 AM
Why?
It will take 5 787s just to replace the lift of 3 747s.

Actually even less, because their contract with Boing allows them to trade up the 787-9 for 787-10, which is about 17% less capacity than the 747. So I'd say about 4 787-10 for 3 747s
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: PlatinumGuy on July 21, 2017, 05:04:03 AM
Why?
It will take 5 787s just to replace the lift of 3 747s.
Very bad economics when most of the flights are scheduled for the same midnight departures anyways. There was never a better route for an A380.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 21, 2017, 05:13:36 AM
Very bad economics when most of the flights are scheduled for the same midnight departures anyways. There was never a better route for an A380.
1) more frequency gives them a very big benefit over the others.
2) who says Ben Gurion runways can accept a a380? I don't think that airport ever had one land there yet. CMIIW.
3) El Al only purchases Boeing aircraft.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on July 21, 2017, 06:19:15 AM
1) more frequency gives them a very big benefit over the others.
2) who says Ben Gurion runways can accept a a380? I don't think that airport ever had one land there yet. CMIIW.
3) El Al only purchases Boeing aircraft.

747-800?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on July 21, 2017, 06:23:07 AM
747-800?
They're bored of the 747's (and so are their customers). They're looking for something that will make waves
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on July 21, 2017, 07:13:43 AM
They're bored of the 747's (and so are their customers). They're looking for something that will make waves

I dont think 90% of customers know the difference between a 747 and a 787. People want something new and modern. You can brand it any way you want it to Israelis.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on July 21, 2017, 09:51:10 AM
Getting more landing slots at JFK will be tough. Until the new LGA is ready that is. Also, DL might assert influence to block it.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on July 21, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Not that hard to get 2 extra slots.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on July 21, 2017, 10:00:09 AM
1) more frequency gives them a very big benefit over the others.
+1.
747 is a gas guzzler. Better off running 1 or 2 extra 787s.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AsherO on July 21, 2017, 02:53:42 PM
2) who says Ben Gurion runways can accept a a380? I don't think that airport ever had one land there yet. CMIIW.

TLV can apparently handle a380s:

http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/rashot/projects/Pages/Upgrading-Routes.aspx
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on July 21, 2017, 02:59:22 PM
TLV can apparently handle a380s:

http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/rashot/projects/Pages/Upgrading-Routes.aspx
Unless EK starts TLV service, it doesn't seem like TLV will see an A380.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on July 21, 2017, 03:41:01 PM
I think it is time to rename this thread to simply "LY Dreamliner"
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: AsherO on July 21, 2017, 04:05:13 PM
Unless EK starts TLV service, it doesn't seem like TLV will see an A380.

Considering what UAE did to Qatar, EK will do only fly to TLV after Moshiach comes.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on July 21, 2017, 04:09:06 PM
Considering what UAE did to Qatar, EK will do only fly to TLV after Moshiach comes.
Eh. We'll have better means of transportation then. 😉
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on July 22, 2017, 11:10:26 PM
Eh. We'll have better means of transportation then.
Will the eagles have a first class cabin?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on July 23, 2017, 02:42:06 AM
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/el-al-looks-to-the-future/
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 23, 2017, 08:11:54 AM
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/el-al-looks-to-the-future/
To me the main takeaway here: "The new Business-Class cabin will feature two-meter-long lie-flat seats by Recaro in a 1-2-1 configuration; the company is still debating whether this should also be installed in the existing Boeing 777 fleet."

I find it very surprising given the cost of these seats. But who knows
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on July 23, 2017, 08:59:14 AM
To me the main takeaway here: "The new Business-Class cabin will feature two-meter-long lie-flat seats by Recaro in a 1-2-1 configuration; the company is still debating whether this should also be installed in the existing Boeing 777 fleet."

I find it very surprising given the cost of these seats. But who knows

I'm very doubtful about this, but perhaps they can find a way to retrofit newer seats that aren't necessarily of the same caliber.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 23, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
I'm very doubtful about this, but perhaps they can find a way to retrofit newer seats that aren't necessarily of the same caliber.
Fine with me  ;D
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on July 23, 2017, 01:44:33 PM
To me the main takeaway here: "The new Business-Class cabin will feature two-meter-long lie-flat seats by Recaro in a 1-2-1 configuration; the company is still debating whether this should also be installed in the existing Boeing 777 fleet."

I find it very surprising given the cost of these seats. But who knows
I guess you know the costs of those seats can  you give me an idea how much they cost? I would think max 6k per seat is that is expensive to retrofit the existing fleets. Considering they can be xfered to the 787s when they are ready to roll.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 23, 2017, 01:59:26 PM
I guess you know the costs of those seats can  you give me an idea how much they cost? I would think max 6k per seat is that is expensive to retrofit the existing fleets. Considering they can be xfered to the 787s when they are ready to roll.

When AF launched their new dreamliner, they talked about each Zodiac seat in J costing over $60k each - not sure how Recaro compares, but id assume it can't be that far?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on July 23, 2017, 02:32:33 PM
I guess you know the costs of those seats can  you give me an idea how much they cost? I would think max 6k per seat is that is expensive to retrofit the existing fleets. Considering they can be xfered to the 787s when they are ready to roll.
At $6K per seat I think you'll have a line that spans around the globe to get them (or not necessarily, as it would be too good to be true).

I've seen all kinds of numbers around but 6k doesn't even scratch the surface.

It might not be as extreme as they state here (http://gizmodo.com/heres-why-a-single-first-class-seat-can-cost-300-000-1695368742), unless you're talking first class, but it might be a little eye opening to watch https://www.nytimes.com/video/business/100000002321703/the-secret-life-of-business-class-seats.html, also available here (http://www.businessinsider.com/a-business-class-seat-costs-80000-2013-8).
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on July 23, 2017, 03:49:29 PM
At $6K per seat I think you'll have a line that spans around the globe to get them (or not necessarily, as it would be too good to be true).

I've seen all kinds of numbers around but 6k doesn't even scratch the surface.

It might not be as extreme as they state here (http://gizmodo.com/heres-why-a-single-first-class-seat-can-cost-300-000-1695368742), unless you're talking first class, but it might be a little eye opening to watch https://www.nytimes.com/video/business/100000002321703/the-secret-life-of-business-class-seats.html, also available here (http://www.businessinsider.com/a-business-class-seat-costs-80000-2013-8).
Wow interesting but makes 0 sense. The only explanation I can think of is that there aren't much manufacturers for airline seats hence giving the companies the opportunity to charge skyrocketing prices.   There is no way to explain even using the fanciest language why a first class seat should cost 300k

Anyone wants to open airplane seat manufacturing business?   
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on July 23, 2017, 04:06:22 PM
Wow interesting but makes 0 sense. The only explanation I can think of is that there aren't much manufacturers for airline seats hence giving the companies the opportunity to charge skyrocketing prices.   There is no way to explain even using the fanciest language why a first class seat should cost 300k

Anyone wants to open airplane seat manufacturing business?   
Did you watch the video? These things need to be built to take serious abuse, minimize weight, take into account safety issues, etc. etc. and currently demand seems to be outstripping supply, resulting in delayed deliveries!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on July 23, 2017, 10:27:28 PM
And don't forget you need to own a patent
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on July 25, 2017, 01:04:10 PM
http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/4993882
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on July 25, 2017, 04:45:56 PM
Nice Google sheet to follow all Boeing test flights.
4X-EDA completed a test flight today
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xPZP2NmigprVBd5dklYcFOGraAn4C8Z4W0z2TPD-eD0/edit#gid=0
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on August 02, 2017, 10:04:14 PM
That's awesome. I'm flying next week let's try Fleish Cholent mit Kishka

Did you try this?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on August 03, 2017, 09:26:45 AM
Inaugural flight to EWR was moved up from October 29 to October 17 (Mon night after Succos).
Anyone here booked for Succos that will be giving the first TR?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 16, 2017, 03:31:30 AM
https://youtu.be/gjBz92eltwo
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: a mirrer on August 16, 2017, 04:32:35 AM
Getting more landing slots at JFK will be tough. Until the new LGA is ready that is. Also, DL might assert influence to block it.
they already have five JFK slots which they only use now in peak season on motzei shabbos so slots won't be an issue for them
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on August 16, 2017, 12:48:35 PM
https://youtu.be/gjBz92eltwo
I didn't see them installing the anti missile system... :P
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yitrap on August 16, 2017, 03:35:01 PM
Silly to charge more for flights with new plane. Childish.
Delta charging more for the A350


http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/08/16/delta-a350-surcharge/?utm_sourcemedium=Twitter
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on August 16, 2017, 04:10:24 PM
Delta charging more for the A350


http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/08/16/delta-a350-surcharge/?utm_sourcemedium=Twitter
Did you read Lucky's original post? He is explaining in length what I said here.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on August 16, 2017, 04:13:35 PM
Basically airlines for that reason never sell you a ticket based on what kind of seats they will give you but rather by fare classes and for that reason. Now if J class will sell out quickly on the 787 flights and the price will  be high because only Z class is available, that is a different story. 
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 17, 2017, 10:13:31 AM
Sounds like they won't have wifi before some time in 2018.

"High-speed internet by ViaSat will be launched in 2018 on the Dreamliner aircraft fleet, El Al said"

http://m.atwonline.com/aircraft-interiors/el-al-israel-airlines-details-boeing-787-cabin-plans

Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on August 17, 2017, 12:09:34 PM
Sounds like they won't have wifi before some time in 2018.

"High-speed internet by ViaSat will be launched in 2018 on the Dreamliner aircraft fleet, El Al said"

http://m.atwonline.com/aircraft-interiors/el-al-israel-airlines-details-boeing-787-cabin-plans

Their mentality/DNA can never cease to amaze me. Always playing catch-up (at best) rather than being an innovator and ahead of the curve, and they actually excuse it with "we have the best security", patriotism, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 21, 2017, 07:54:24 AM
Their mentality/DNA can never cease to amaze me. Always playing catch-up (at best) rather than being an innovator and ahead of the curve, and they actually excuse it with "we have the best security", patriotism, etc. etc.
I couldn't​ agree more

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-maintenance-workers-threaten-to-disrupt-dreamliner-ceremony-1001202024
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mgarfin on August 22, 2017, 07:38:16 AM
http://m.news1.co.il/ArticlePage.aspx?docid=394354&subjectid=1&TransID=0&AfterAdd=1
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 22, 2017, 07:48:45 AM
http://m.news1.co.il/ArticlePage.aspx?docid=394354&subjectid=1&TransID=0&AfterAdd=1
This airline is a never ending mess
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on August 22, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
This airline is a never ending mess

Substitute country for airline

Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on August 22, 2017, 04:17:44 PM
Its going home
https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY1789/e944e27 (https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY1789/e944e27)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on August 22, 2017, 07:48:04 PM
Its going home
https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY1789/e944e27 (https://www.flightradar24.com/ELY1789/e944e27)

Just wondering.
Is delivery flight flown by Boing pilot or LY?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on August 22, 2017, 07:53:51 PM
Just wondering.
Is delivery flight flown by Boing pilot or LY?
Delivery is always flown by carrier, paid by carrier (fuel) etc.

Prior to accepting an aircraft, there are some test flights, known as B1/B2 and C1/C2. The B's are paid by Boeing and C by the carrier

They are now flying now Flight 1*789* non-stop t TLV, when they took delivery of a 737 they flew with a stop (overnight) at JFK and CDG for "security" reason whereas other carriers do the stop up north in Canada
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on August 22, 2017, 08:27:11 PM
It's already showing as delayed on the very first flight... ::)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on August 22, 2017, 09:03:03 PM
It's already showing as delayed on the very first flight... ::)
That's SOP for LY, presumably for security reasons. They always bluff with ETA and actual arrivals.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on August 23, 2017, 04:29:41 PM
This article has a real pic of the business class interior. Looks nice

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/153698-170823-welcoming-new-jetliner-el-al-vows-to-woo-back-passengers-and-boost-service
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on August 24, 2017, 11:10:11 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/SpeakerRyan">@SpeakerRyan</a> is visiting Boeing Everett this morning, part of a series of town hall meetings at business around the country this week. <a href="https://t.co/dpw6PWUUcy">pic.twitter.com/dpw6PWUUcy</a></p>&mdash; Jon Ostrower (@jonostrower) <a href="">August 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 28, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
Inaugural flight to EWR was moved up from October 29 to October 17 (Mon night after Succos).
Anyone here booked for Succos that will be giving the first TR?
I am scheduled to fly on it from LHR to TLV on Oct 24 - and yet as you point out it's also scheduled on the EWR route..

Does that mean they will have received a second one by then or they haven't yet decided when to stop flying to LHR?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mikebg on August 28, 2017, 07:06:37 AM
I am scheduled to fly on it from LHR to TLV on Oct 24 - and yet as you point out it's also scheduled on the EWR route..

Does that mean they will have received a second one by then or they haven't yet decided when to stop flying to LHR?
Their second aircraft is due to arrive on October 9th.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on August 28, 2017, 09:25:02 AM
Where is the 787 flying during the night while it does the day trip to London?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 28, 2017, 09:32:50 AM
Where is the 787 flying during the night while it does the day trip to London?
Seating in Israel as far as I can tell?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on August 28, 2017, 09:33:54 AM
Seating in Israel as far as I can tell?
To Newark!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 28, 2017, 09:37:28 AM
To Newark!
You're right! Just realized LY28 make it back on time to Israel and then goes on to London
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on August 28, 2017, 09:47:04 AM
Let's try to explain how scheduling works for some who seem a bit confused.
We have 2 aircrafts:
Aircraft 1:
Departs to Newark Motzei Shabbos and arrives at 5:40am
Departs Newark at 1:30pm and arrives in TLV at 7:10am Monday morning.
It then departs at 10:15am to LHR, and leaves LHR at 3:25pm arriving in TLV about 10:15pm on Monday evening.
It then sets out to EWR again at 12:30am to arrive in EWR Tuesday morning at 5:50am
And so on....

Aircraft 2:
Departs TLV to LHR on Sunday at 10:15am and is back in TLV at 10:15pm so that it can head out to Newark for the Sunday night 12:30am flight, because the aircraft that flew to Newark Motzei Shabbos still hasn't returned and will only be arriving in TLV at 7:10am the following morning.
Then arrives back in TLV early Tuesday morning and does the Tuesday route to London, since the aircraft that did it Monday is now enroute to EWR
And so on.....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on August 28, 2017, 11:06:04 AM
Where is the 787 flying during the night while it does the day trip to London?
Until the Newark service starts?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 28, 2017, 11:08:28 AM
Until the Newark service starts?
Seating in Israel as far as I can tell?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on August 28, 2017, 11:30:51 AM


Planes never sit! They have to be flying!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on August 28, 2017, 12:24:17 PM
Planes never sit! They have to be flying!
Relax. Even this rule has plenty of exceptions. El Al has a plane sitting in EWR every day for 7 ˝ hours (and 42 hrs over the weekend).
IINM, most short haul domestic flights in the US don't operate through the night either.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: aygart on August 28, 2017, 12:31:27 PM
Relax. Even this rule had plenty of exceptions. El Al has a plane sitting in EWR every day for 7 ˝ hours (and 42 hrs over the weekend).
IINM, most short haul domestic flights don't operate through the night either.
After a TLV-NYC flight longer cleanup is needed.....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on August 28, 2017, 01:01:25 PM
After any ELAL a TLV-NYC flight longer cleanup is needed.....
FTFY
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on August 29, 2017, 05:55:19 AM
http://m.news1.co.il/ArticlePage.aspx?docid=394354&subjectid=1&TransID=0&AfterAdd=1
For once they settled quite fast

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-settles-dispute-with-maintenance-workers-1001202935
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on September 06, 2017, 08:39:00 AM
ViaSat available early 2018

https://www.viasat.com/news/el-al-israel-airlines-and-viasat-bring-flight-wi-fi-innovation-new-boeing-787-dreamliner
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: gold on September 06, 2017, 08:42:13 AM
any real cabin pics?
Its flying daily to LHR now.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 06, 2017, 08:51:27 AM
Its flying daily to LHR now.
Not until Sep 12.
And that first flight availability is now Y0 and C0 (not sure if it's sold out or blocked for staff/elected officials etc.)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 06, 2017, 08:52:10 AM
I know someone flying it Sep 24 IYH.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: rcarentals on September 06, 2017, 02:26:27 PM
When i visited the boeing factory in July someone who works closely with Elal on their Dreamliner Strategy said they would start with EWR than a mix between Asia and NYC as they get more planes
LAX wasn't even anywhere near high on the list unfortunately - not even for an interior remodeling. He said the strategy is, unless your due anyways to overhaul the interiors, you use it until it really needs the complete overhaul. Sad..

Qantas points may become a hot commodity now that they introduced premium cabin booking for LY...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on September 06, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
Qantas points may become a hot commodity now that they introduced premium cabin booking for LY...
If only it worked for North America.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: high end hobo on September 06, 2017, 04:06:42 PM
If only it worked for North America.
heard one 2nd hand report that it worked calling in.
Not sure if that's true or a fluke or something.
Worth a shot asking QF rep to long sell
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on September 06, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
heard one 2nd hand report that it worked calling in.
Not sure if that's true or a fluke or something.
Worth a shot asking QF rep to long sell

Anyone here try?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on September 07, 2017, 10:30:52 AM
Anyone here try?

Yeah. No luck
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on September 07, 2017, 03:53:15 PM
If only it worked for North America.
Does it work for all other routes, or is it only for the Far East routes? (SAA used to be have LY as a partner IINM, but was only good for TLV-JNB, don't know about J or F).

How is QF's YQ on LY?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: high end hobo on September 07, 2017, 06:29:04 PM
Does it work for all other routes, or is it only for the Far East routes? (SAA used to be have LY as a partner IINM, but was only good for TLV-JNB, don't know about J or F).

How is QF's YQ on LY?
QF works for every route other then NA.
SAA still has LY partnership.
QF's YQ is the same as LY's
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on September 07, 2017, 08:47:26 PM
QF works for every route other then NA.
SAA still has LY partnership.
QF's YQ is the same as LY's
I thought there was no QF YQ on LY?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on September 08, 2017, 01:24:39 AM
SAA still has LY partnership.
And does that work for any long haul routes other than JNB? What about YQ?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: high end hobo on September 08, 2017, 10:06:57 AM
I thought there was no QF YQ on LY?
-1 the annoying thing is you can only price YQ if you have enough points in your QF account.

ETA: HKG route may have little/no YQ

And does that work for any long haul routes other than JNB? What about YQ?
I have no first hand experience, see details here
https://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer/EarningPoints/Pages/South-African-Airlines.aspx

Sorry I just noticed this (news to me)
"Termination of Frequent Flyer Club Agreement with South Africa​n Airways (SAA)
The agreement will be discontinued on June 30, 2017."
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ExGingi on September 08, 2017, 10:44:20 AM

Sorry I just noticed this (news to me)
"Termination of Frequent Flyer Club Agreement with South Africa​n Airways (SAA)
The agreement will be discontinued on June 30, 2017."
Phew. I feel relieved. My memory hasn't failed me. I am still young enough 😉. I thought I had seen somewhere that LY/SAA terminating mileage relationship, but wasn't certain. Which is why I wrote:

(SAA used to be have LY as a partner IINM, but was only good for TLV-JNB, don't know about J or F).
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on September 08, 2017, 12:01:12 PM
Can we have the title on this thread updated?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 09, 2017, 01:53:17 PM
Can we have the title on this thread updated?
+1
Something like "LY Dreamliner updates" or "LY Dreamliner master thread" would make more sense....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 11, 2017, 02:41:43 PM
I just noticed that I have a passenger flying on the very first inaugural flight tomorrow morning to LHR.
She actually booked it well before it was even scheduled to be on the Dreamliner
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on September 11, 2017, 03:02:26 PM
I just noticed that I have a passenger flying on the very first inaugural flight tomorrow morning to LHR.
She actually booked it well before it was even scheduled to be on the Dreamliner
Any chance she could write a TR?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 11, 2017, 03:17:34 PM
Any chance she could write a TR?
Unfortunately not the type that she would even report back to me.... And she's traveling Y
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on September 11, 2017, 04:05:53 PM
Unfortunately not the type that she would even report back to me.... And she's traveling Y
Pretty much becomes a moot point...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 11, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
Pretty much becomes a moot point...
You're right about the product, but I'm also curious if there will be any celebration (or celebrities) etc. on the first flight
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Tzfas on September 12, 2017, 03:13:03 PM
You're right about the product, but I'm also curious if there will be any celebration (or celebrities) etc. on the first flight
There are some pictures going around of an Elal cake and signs, celebrating the inaugural flight.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on September 12, 2017, 03:28:54 PM
There are some pictures going around of an Elal cake and signs, celebrating the inaugural flight.
Not many celebrities  ;D
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 12, 2017, 05:17:19 PM
Not many celebrities  ;D
Besides David Maimon (center), who are the other two?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on September 13, 2017, 12:02:19 AM
Besides David Maimon (center), who are the other two?
LY's chairman and vice-chairwoman
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on September 26, 2017, 09:40:41 AM
If only it worked for North America.

Per OMAAT it works if you book over the phone.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yelped on September 26, 2017, 10:55:56 AM
Per OMAAT it works if you book over the phone.
Cool. He doesn't mention how much the YQ is.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on September 26, 2017, 11:20:48 AM
Cool. He doesn't mention how much the YQ is.

Seems to be no YQ.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yelped on September 26, 2017, 11:26:47 AM
Seems to be no YQ.
That's great! How is availability for business? Better than United? Is Citi the only transfer partner?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on September 26, 2017, 11:27:24 AM
I just started a new thread for this topic. I think it is more than worthy of it's own thread....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on September 26, 2017, 11:30:17 AM
That's great! How is availability for business? Better than United? Is Citi the only transfer partner?

Yes QF is only transferable from TY points.

I just started a new thread for this topic. I think it is more than worthy of it's own thread....

True.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on September 26, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
And poof, there goes all LY award availability.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mmgfarb on September 26, 2017, 01:33:01 PM
Seems to be no YQ.
Apparently that's been YMMV.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: VLK on September 28, 2017, 03:37:50 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/09/28/israel-trip-booked/

Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on September 28, 2017, 03:39:41 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/09/28/israel-trip-booked/

Discussed here: http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=23055.msg1810384#msg1810384
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 16, 2017, 08:55:03 PM
First 789 to USA is now in flight
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on October 16, 2017, 09:22:29 PM
Do they overbook the 789?  No first class to compensate...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on October 17, 2017, 02:02:05 AM
I'm flying it from LHR to TLV next Wednesday.
Worth a review if noone has reviewed it until then?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on October 17, 2017, 02:05:51 AM
Do they overbook the 789?  No first class to compensate...
Same story as in their 769 - they often offered me to downgrade in exchange for a round trip in J. I've never accepted and doubt anyone does.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 17, 2017, 02:37:45 AM
JFK service starting Jun 29. Departing TLV 10:40am flight returning 6pm from JFK. Second JFK flight (4pm from TLV) switches over to 787-9 Sep 16.
As of now, LY 1 will be the last NYC flight to switch over (so far not on schedule for the upcoming 12 months)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on October 17, 2017, 02:38:57 AM
Same story as in their 769 - they often offered me to downgrade in exchange for a round trip in J. I've never accepted and doubt anyone does.

Why not?
Sounds like a square deal to me, especially if you get seated in Y+ or exit.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on October 17, 2017, 02:42:42 AM
Why not?
Sounds like a square deal to me, especially if you get seated in Y+ or exit.
In that case yes but that's hardly been the case for me. So would rather keep my J than being seated btw two people in Y
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on October 17, 2017, 06:29:25 AM
JFK service starting Jun 29. Departing TLV 10:40am flight returning 6pm from JFK. Second JFK flight (4pm from TLV) switches over to 787-9 Sep 16.
As of now, LY 1 will be the last NYC flight to switch over (so far not on schedule for the upcoming 12 months)

Nice!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Yaalili on October 17, 2017, 06:33:44 AM
Brand new LY Dreamliner now on the ground in London for repairs to a broken window - http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/5029435http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/5029435
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: moe8555 on October 17, 2017, 07:17:08 AM
Is it still under the manufacturer's warranty?  I hope they paid with a Citi card for an extra 2 years  ;D

Or maybe they should just use the return or purchase protection and be done with it... 8)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chaim0m on October 17, 2017, 08:49:06 AM
I'm flying it from LHR to TLV next Wednesday.
Worth a review if noone has reviewed it until then?
Yes! Maybe Dan can give you a guest post.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 17, 2017, 11:19:22 AM
Boarding it now
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: shaulyaakov on October 17, 2017, 11:21:21 AM
Boarding it now

Y, Y+, or J?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 17, 2017, 11:22:41 AM
Y, Y+, or J?
All ;-)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on October 17, 2017, 11:24:53 AM
All ;-)
Glad I won't have to write a report then :)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mgarfin on October 17, 2017, 12:36:53 PM
Brand new LY Dreamliner now on the ground in London for repairs to a broken window - http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/5029435

This must be the reason for cancelling LY27 and rescheduling it for tomorrow 930
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 17, 2017, 01:09:38 PM
Glad I won't have to write a report then :)

Doesn't look like this flight is going anywhere
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 17, 2017, 01:10:42 PM
This must be the reason for cancelling LY27 and rescheduling it for tomorrow 930
Already late on it's very first flight (this aircraft) to NY...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 17, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
Already late on it's very first flight (this aircraft) to NY...

2nd flight - first flight was yesterday. Now, lets vote - plane broke now, option 1 put back on the 2nd day of 787 service that many people are looking out a 777 - or delay the flight so the plane that is flying out of NY can do the flight back?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 17, 2017, 02:08:25 PM
2nd flight - first flight was yesterday. Now, lets vote - plane broke now, option 1 put back on the 2nd day of 787 service that many people are looking out a 777 - or delay the flight so the plane that is flying out of NY can do the flight back?
I specifically wrote "this aircraft". Yesterday's flight was another aircraft, which just departed from Newark 8 minutes ago (seems like you're on board that flight....)
If we get a response from you in the next 9 hrs, then we'll know that the Wi-Fi on these planes are working....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 17, 2017, 02:17:17 PM
I specifically wrote "this aircraft". Yesterday's flight was another aircraft, which just departed from Newark 8 minutes ago (seems like you're on board that flight....)
If we get a response from you in the next 9 hrs, then we'll know that the Wi-Fi on these planes are working....

I'm not on that flight... I was on LY 7028

Wifi won't work till Feb IIRC...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 11:59:10 AM
18OCT is a 777
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: tavster on October 18, 2017, 12:03:15 PM
18OCT is a 777

Has anyone been on the Dreamliner yet? I'm confused
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 12:06:15 PM
Has anyone been on the Dreamliner yet? I'm confused

Boarding it now
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on October 18, 2017, 12:07:05 PM
Pics? Reviews?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yanks10952 on October 18, 2017, 12:10:18 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/el-al-787-business-class-review/
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:16:58 PM
I'm not on that flight... I was on LY 7028

Wifi won't work till Feb IIRC...
Flight aware doesn't recognize such a flight. Where to where was this?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:17:40 PM
18OCT is a 777
19OCT
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 12:22:19 PM
19OCT
Correct, my mistake
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:39:54 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/el-al-787-business-class-review/
Did she really shell out $4452 for a one way ticket? Is she nuts or a liar? There are plenty of cheaper options even when there's no award space
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on October 18, 2017, 12:46:45 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/el-al-787-business-class-review/
$4.5K cash for a one-way  :o
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:49:20 PM
$4.5K cash for a one-way  :o
Repost
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 12:49:54 PM
Flight aware doesn't recognize such a flight. Where to where was this?


Code: [Select]
>DOLY7028/17OCT
DOLY7028/17OCT                                                                 
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO*              LY7028   -1 TU 17OCT17                   
APT ARR   DY DEP   DY CLASS/MEAL          EQP  GRND  EFT   TTL                 
EWR          1330  TU (CLASS NOT AVAIL-)  789        10:40                     
TLV 0710  WE                                               10:40               
                                                                               
COMMENTS-                                                                       
 1.ENTIRE FLT- H/ SEGMENT NOT TO BE DISPLAYED                                   
 2.EWR TLV   - DEPARTS TERMINAL B                                               
 3.EWR TLV   - ARRIVES TERMINAL 3                                               
 4.EWR TLV   - SECURED FLIGHT                                                   
 5.EWR TLV   -  ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE                                   
 6.EWR TLV   - WARNING TEST FLIGHT                                             
 7.EWR TLV   -  CO2/PAX* 548.96 KG ECO, 1,097.92 KG PRE                         
 (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR                                   
                                                                               
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               789  C  32   W  28   Y 222                                       
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on October 18, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
Did she really shell out $4452 for a one way ticket? Is she nuts or a liar? There are plenty of cheaper options even when there's no award space
She didn't. Bankrate did.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:53:02 PM

Code: [Select]
>DOLY7028/17OCT
DOLY7028/17OCT                                                                 
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO*              LY7028   -1 TU 17OCT17                   
APT ARR   DY DEP   DY CLASS/MEAL          EQP  GRND  EFT   TTL                 
EWR          1330  TU (CLASS NOT AVAIL-)  789        10:40                     
TLV 0710  WE                                               10:40               
                                                                               
COMMENTS-                                                                       
 1.ENTIRE FLT- H/ SEGMENT NOT TO BE DISPLAYED                                   
 2.EWR TLV   - DEPARTS TERMINAL B                                               
 3.EWR TLV   - ARRIVES TERMINAL 3                                               
 4.EWR TLV   - SECURED FLIGHT                                                   
 5.EWR TLV   -  ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE                                   
 6.EWR TLV   - WARNING TEST FLIGHT                                             
 7.EWR TLV   -  CO2/PAX* 548.96 KG ECO, 1,097.92 KG PRE                         
 (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR                                   
                                                                               
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               789  C  32   W  28   Y 222                                       
Isn't this yesterday's Newark flight? I'm confused
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:54:46 PM
She didn't. Bankrate did.
Who's that?
In any case, she could have used some brains like booking a false return in Y....
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: Dan on October 18, 2017, 12:56:49 PM
Who's that?
In any case, she could have used some brains like booking a false return in Y....
The credit card consortium that owns TPG
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yelped on October 18, 2017, 12:57:37 PM
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/el-al-787-business-class-review/
I like the Rishon Letzion on the plane. I'm assuming all their planes have different names?

PS: I doubt it's named after the city like she says. She missed the whole point...
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on October 18, 2017, 12:58:47 PM
I like the Rishon Letzion on the plane. I'm assuming all their planes have different names?

PS: I doubt it's named after the city like she says. She missed the whole point...
Correct
And yes, it is named after the city. I flew on the old version of Rishon Letzion just over a half a year ago. Was probably the oldest plane in their fleet. An old 747 purchased second hand from Singapore.
In the IFE, under El Al news, it said about how El Al will be taking delivery of their 772 aircrafts in 2007!
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 01:01:59 PM
I like the Rishon Letzion on the plane. I'm assuming all their planes have different names?

Many airlines have their ACFT named after cites
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 01:02:48 PM
Isn't this yesterday's Newark flight? I'm confused

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/el-al-dreamliner-event-first-look/ (https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/el-al-dreamliner-event-first-look/)
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on October 18, 2017, 01:17:52 PM
18OCT is a 777
So whats their policy on PE paxs in such scenario? believe they don't have yet  :P
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 01:28:51 PM
Pics? Reviews?

Quick Review: ELAL 787 Dreamliner USA Debut


Elal 7028
Newark (EWR) – Newark (EWR)
Tuesday, October 17
Depart: 9:00AM
Arrive: -
Duration: -
Aircraft: Boeing 787-9
Seat: STBY

Elal invited Agents, LY Staff and other dignitaries to welcome and tour the new 787 Dreamliner at EWR Airport. Event started with a brunch at the Art & Lounge which was very crowded and the food was gone when I showed up… - can’t review the food as it was special catered for the event and not the regular lounge stuff.
Each attendee got a Boarding Pass for Flight “LY7028” and headed over to TSA which only had the general line open - no Premium line was open at the time (not that it would have helped, we were all booked in Y class…)

At the gate there were more balloons, champagne and the big cake. The Israeli Consul General cut the ceremonial ribbon and made the Bracha Shehecheyanu (why not…)

The “pax” of flight LY7028 boarded the flight - tried each seat, up down sideways, sitting sleeping, took many pictures & selfies.

The end
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: damaxer91 on October 18, 2017, 01:34:52 PM
"While the food was good, the highlight of meal service was its speed: within 80 minutes of takeoff, meal service was completed."

One of my favorite things about El Al. No extended meal times when everyone wants to sleep. Some airlines kill you with that.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 04:17:17 PM
Brand. New. Plane.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: zow on October 18, 2017, 07:12:20 PM
Can’t tell from the picture...is it blood? Meatball sauce?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: SearchGuy on October 18, 2017, 09:51:29 PM
Brand. New. Plane.
Ground crew ever wipe these seats up?... was on a new 787 too (the leather seat version), where I once got a filthy seat on UA I called a crew member and she cleaned it up for me
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 18, 2017, 09:54:23 PM
Ground crew ever wipe these seats up?... was on a new 787 too (the leather seat version), where I once got a filthy seat on UA I called a crew member and she cleaned it up for me
Plane was spotless otherwise wise
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on October 19, 2017, 09:51:04 AM
19OCT
Reason? Had a client booked in full C class to try the new 789. Didn't hear from him yet. He most be pissed.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: mendyt on October 19, 2017, 09:53:37 AM
Reason? Had a client booked in full C class to try the new 789. Didn't hear from him yet. He most be pissed.
he came yesterday with 27?
 flight 28 also delayed to 7:45P
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 19, 2017, 09:58:26 AM
he came yesterday with 27?
 flight 28 also delayed to 7:45P
And the plane is sitting in EWR, crew issues again?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on October 19, 2017, 10:22:46 AM
he came yesterday with 27?
 flight 28 also delayed to 7:45P
He came with 27. 777. They upgraded him to F so was not that terrible.

What a mismanaged airline. Mind puzzling.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: sharabob on October 19, 2017, 11:49:06 AM
Can someone please change the title of this thread?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on October 19, 2017, 01:43:38 PM
Can someone please change the title of this thread?
I have requested so a few weeks ago already. Seems like the admins like it the way it is.
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yitrap on October 19, 2017, 03:17:15 PM
I have requested so a few weeks ago already. Seems like the admins like it the way it is.
Did you rtm?
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: ilherman on October 19, 2017, 03:26:15 PM
Dan follows this thread I believe.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 19, 2017, 03:50:54 PM
I have requested so a few weeks ago already. Seems like the admins like it the way it is.
You're request has been fulfilled...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: sharabob on October 19, 2017, 06:53:22 PM
Much better :)
Title: El Al 787
Post by: Onlyethic on October 22, 2017, 03:27:45 PM
Anyone have an update on El Al's TLV-LHR 787? Last I read the plane was grounded on account of a cracked window in business. Flight tracker lists recent LY 315 flights as 777-200.
Title: Re: El Al 787
Post by: chff on October 22, 2017, 06:08:49 PM
Anyone have an update on El Al's TLV-LHR 787? Last I read the plane was grounded on account of a cracked window in business. Flight tracker lists recent LY 315 flights as 777-200.
It flew the EWR flight last night
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: chff on October 26, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
Did she really shell out $4452 for a one way ticket? Is she nuts or a liar? There are plenty of cheaper options even when there's no award space

and she flew back with J2 - could have done it on the same ticket, but I guess thats not their way
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 26, 2017, 01:37:48 PM
and she flew back with J2 - could have done it on the same ticket, but I guess thats not their way
Wow. And I thought these bloggers are supposed to show how to save money while flying....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 26, 2017, 01:41:50 PM
Btw, one of my clients flew this week in PE. He said that the service/food was similar to that of business class. He also said that PE seemed to have had the most breathing space from all cabins. He said that although the actual seat in business looked spacious, the aisle in business felt very cramped.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on October 26, 2017, 01:54:05 PM
Btw, one of my clients flew this week in PE. He said that the service/food was similar to that of business class. He also said that PE seemed to have had the most breathing space from all cabins. He said that although the actual seat in business looked spacious, the aisle in business felt very cramped.
Who cares how cramped the aisle is?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on October 26, 2017, 01:58:28 PM
Who cares how cramped the aisle is?
It contributes to the overall feel but not to comfort.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on October 26, 2017, 02:02:28 PM
It contributes to the overall feel but not to comfort.
Nobody has ever picked a seat or airline due to aisle width.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on October 26, 2017, 02:06:51 PM
Nobody has ever picked a seat or airline due to aisle width.
I was agreeing with you
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 26, 2017, 02:10:51 PM
Nobody has ever picked a seat or airline due to aisle width.
True. He just mentioned that it had a very tight feeling. He plans on flying business in the future as soon as the excitement winds down a bit and upgrade space opens up
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: brodes18 on October 27, 2017, 11:01:33 AM
Got a view of it at EWR yesterday. It looks great from the outside:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4494/37914192016_cbf322a58a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZLm9nN)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mmgfarb on October 27, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
Got a view of it at EWR yesterday. It looks great from the outside:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4494/37914192016_cbf322a58a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZLm9nN)
All dreamliners look great from the outside, it's what's on the inside that matters
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: gold on October 27, 2017, 04:32:44 PM
PE 787 day flight or Business 747 night flight.
Which would you choose?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on October 27, 2017, 04:36:28 PM
PE 787 day flight or Business 747 night flight.
Which would you choose?
Joke?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: gold on October 27, 2017, 04:43:51 PM
Seriously...avod...day flight....new aircraft.... Same food...???
On BA the PE is far less cramped than the club! Correct not a bed, but a better seat.
What's your poshet tzad?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: VLK on October 29, 2017, 09:33:00 AM
Anyone hear a detailed report on PE?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: moe8555 on October 29, 2017, 12:22:10 PM
Anyone hear a detailed report on PE?

This guy flew in PE on the inaugural flight.  I'd say he's Israel's premier travel blogger. (In Hebrew)

https://flying-out.com/2017/09/12/first-ly-dreamliner-flight/ (https://flying-out.com/2017/09/12/first-ly-dreamliner-flight/)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on October 29, 2017, 01:29:37 PM
This guy flew in PE on the inaugural flight.  I'd say he's Israel's premier travel blogger. (In Hebrew)

https://flying-out.com/2017/09/12/first-ly-dreamliner-flight/ (https://flying-out.com/2017/09/12/first-ly-dreamliner-flight/)
This says it all:

Quote
בשערים סמוכים חנו מטוסי דרימליינר אחרים של החברות יונייטד, אייר קנדה והיינאן. לידם חנה גם מטוס
A359 של קתאי.
זו הייתה תזכורת מצוינת שאלעל לא עושה כאן צעד גדול קדימה בהשוואה מול חברות אחרות אלא רק עושה צעד גדול קדימה מבחינתה. הבעיה היא שאלעל לא מתחרה עם עצמה אלא מתחרה עם חברות אחרות בנתב״ג.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: moe8555 on October 29, 2017, 03:23:26 PM
This says it all:

Yeah he's a great read, extremely worldly and insightful (especially for a sabra with only an Israeli passport and no access to U.S. cards and whatnot).  I feel okay listing it here because it's Hebrew-only and entirely TLV-centric, with sprinklings about his deals and  journeys elsewhere.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on October 29, 2017, 03:30:29 PM
To restate what might be obvious to DDFers, but for some reason not to the tone deaf people calling the shots at ELAL:

הבעיה היא שאלעל לא מתחרה עם עצמה אלא מתחרה עם חברות אחרות בנתב״ג.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: David Smith on October 29, 2017, 04:45:19 PM
He says as a plat he gets free PE. Is that still true, or have they fixed that?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on October 29, 2017, 04:50:33 PM
He says as a plat he gets free PE. Is that still true, or have they fixed that?

Just to London
כבעל סטטוס פלטינום במועדון הנוסע המתמיד אני נהנה מגישה חופשית למושבים מועדפים בטיסות אלעל – ולשמחתי המערכת איפשרה לי לבחור כל מושב במטוס לרבות המושבים של מחלקת פרימיום–אקונומי החדשה (שלא משווקת כמחלקת שירות נפרדת בטיסות ללונדון והנוסעים בה מקבלים שירות של מחלקת התיירים)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on October 29, 2017, 04:54:47 PM
He says as a plat he gets free PE. Is that still true, or have they fixed that?
I think anyone can get it for free to/from LHR.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 29, 2017, 05:16:28 PM
I think anyone can get it for free to/from LHR.
-1
Only Gold+ and high fare class tickets
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on October 29, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
-1
Only Gold+ and high fare class tickets
Is every 1 way a high fare class? I booked someone a 1 way for $800 and I was able to choose those seats.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 29, 2017, 05:33:48 PM
Is every 1 way a high fare class? I booked someone a 1 way for $800 and I was able to choose those seats.
Yes. A one way is either S or Y. Preferred seating is available for M, S, and Y. I just hope you tried a competent TA before spending that much on a one way ticket
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on October 29, 2017, 05:35:19 PM
Yes. A one way is either S or Y. Preferred seating is available for M, S, and Y. I just hope you tried a competent TA before spending that much on a one way ticket
And in case you haven't yet, the above fare classes are all fully refundable at no cost, so it's not too late...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on October 29, 2017, 05:38:45 PM
Yes. A one way is either S or Y. Preferred seating is available for M, S, and Y. I just hope you tried a competent TA before spending that much on a one way ticket
I tried everything there was nothing to do for that date (the passenger wanted only LY or BA)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on October 29, 2017, 07:23:14 PM
To restate what might be obvious to DDFers, but for some reason not to the tone deaf people calling the shots at ELAL:

הבעיה היא שאלעל לא מתחרה עם עצמה אלא מתחרה עם חברות אחרות בנתב״ג.
I happened to be driving on Avalon this evening and the Radio was on while they were giving a news briefing. The last news item was that LY28 from Newark was delayed due to technical issues and will only be departing in the morning.

I guess it's no wonder that a company that feels so important that such an item is newsworthy for the general public, which might be as large as hundreds of thousands, is oblivious to the fact that some people will just choose what they perceive as the best service provider, rather than just being proud of a "national carrier" and consider them as the only option.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on October 29, 2017, 08:01:05 PM
Yes. A one way is either S or Y. Preferred seating is available for M, S, and Y. I just hope you tried a competent TA before spending that much on a one way ticket
Likely only Y/S were available where fake return doesn't help.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 06, 2017, 12:12:15 PM
If they only have 1 Dreamliner going between TLV and EWR, does that mean the 787 is only on alternate days from Newark?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: a mirrer on November 06, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
If they only have 1 Dreamliner going between TLV and EWR, does that mean the 787 is only on alternate days from Newark?
they have 2 already so they have it every night
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 06, 2017, 03:08:14 PM
I thought they only had 2 total and 1 of those was going to LHR?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on November 06, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
I thought they only had 2 total and 1 of those was going to LHR?
Both are going to LHR/EWR
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on November 06, 2017, 03:41:14 PM
I thought they only had 2 total and 1 of those was going to LHR?
It's arriving in TLV in the morning then does a RT LHR and to EWR, was discussed upthread
Title: Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
Post by: yandmk on November 06, 2017, 04:41:01 PM
If they only have 1 Dreamliner going between TLV and EWR, does that mean the 787 is only on alternate days from Newark?
they have 2 already so they have it every night
I thought they only had 2 total and 1 of those was going to LHR?
Both are going to LHR/EWR
It's arriving in TLV in the morning then does a RT LHR and to EWR, was discussed upthread

Here:

Let's try to explain how scheduling works for some who seem a bit confused.
We have 2 aircrafts:
Aircraft 1:
Departs to Newark Motzei Shabbos and arrives at 5:40am
Departs Newark at 1:30pm and arrives in TLV at 7:10am Monday morning.
It then departs at 10:15am to LHR, and leaves LHR at 3:25pm arriving in TLV about 10:15pm on Monday evening.
It then sets out to EWR again at 12:30am to arrive in EWR Tuesday morning at 5:50am
And so on....

Aircraft 2:
Departs TLV to LHR on Sunday at 10:15am and is back in TLV at 10:15pm so that it can head out to Newark for the Sunday night 12:30am flight, because the aircraft that flew to Newark Motzei Shabbos still hasn't returned and will only be arriving in TLV at 7:10am the following morning.
Then arrives back in TLV early Tuesday morning and does the Tuesday route to London, since the aircraft that did it Monday is now enroute to EWR
And so on.....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 06, 2017, 04:54:59 PM
Here:
This sounds destined to fail spectacularly. Now there's a whole ripple affect if a delay happens on 1 of the 4 legs in the cycle. Especially once Northeast snow season starts.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on November 06, 2017, 05:04:34 PM
This sounds destined to fail spectacularly. Now there's a whole ripple affect if a delay happens on 1 of the 4 legs in the cycle. Especially once Northeast snow season starts.
They're not the first airline that thought of this, actually most planes in the sky operate on such a schedule and even if there's let's say a 2 hour delay in EWR the TLV-LHR flight will still be on time.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 06, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
There not the first airline that thought of this, actually most planes in the sky operate on such a schedule.
Yes, but if one flight on a larger airline is delayed, it's easy to get a replacement plane. Right now, Ly has exactly 2 planes like this. They're going to either have delays, or upset customers on a 777.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on November 06, 2017, 05:11:51 PM
even if there's let's say a 2 hour delay in EWR the TLV-LHR flight will still be on time.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on November 06, 2017, 05:14:18 PM
Yes, but if one flight on a larger airline is delayed, it's easy to get a replacement plane. Right now, Ly has exactly 2 planes like this. They're going to either have delays, or upset customers on a 777.
That's not something an economy customer has the right to get upset about
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on November 06, 2017, 05:17:05 PM
Yes, but if one flight on a larger airline is delayed, it's easy to get a replacement plane. Right now, Ly has exactly 2 planes like this. They're going to either have delays, or upset customers on a 777.
I'm sure everyone who has been delayed for hours due to weather halfway across the country can back you up on that.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on November 06, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
That's not something an economy customer has the right to get upset about
What about the others?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on November 06, 2017, 06:57:13 PM
Yes, but if one flight on a larger airline is delayed, it's easy to get a replacement plane. Right now, Ly has exactly 2 planes like this. They're going to either have delays, or upset customers on a 777.
Umm, every airline operates so, and every airline suffers from ripple effects. What I don't understand the first week when the 787 broke down and they put back the 777 on Thursday they delayed the EWR flight till 7pm and the plane was sitting in EWR from 6am. Did they need the same crew to so the return? 777/787 share a type rating
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: jr611 on November 06, 2017, 07:03:03 PM
DDMS picked up on TPG
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/11/el-al-more-dreamliner-routes/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 06, 2017, 07:54:23 PM
DDMS picked up on TPG
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/11/el-al-more-dreamliner-routes/
Really the HT for all this should go to me  >:( I reported this 20 days ago already.

JFK service starting Jun 29. Departing TLV 10:40am flight returning 6pm from JFK. Second JFK flight (4pm from TLV) switches over to 787-9 Sep 16.
As of now, LY 1 will be the last NYC flight to switch over (so far not on schedule for the upcoming 12 months)

Whats going on with LY to London? it looks like soon they're pulling the 787 from that route and making THREE! daily flights to LTN with a 737.

An insight here?

The change comes at the end of March, the day after El Al is starting 787 service to HKG. So I guess that answers your question.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 06, 2017, 09:11:30 PM
Who cares how cramped the aisle is?
I've had 2 clients complaining about this exact issue this week.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yelped on November 06, 2017, 09:25:20 PM
I've had 2 clients complaining about this exact issue this week.
Sort of like an apartment with low ceilings even though your head still has a few inches of clearance.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: efflpetzel on November 07, 2017, 12:53:15 PM
can gold+ choose PE seats on the tlv-ewr route?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on November 07, 2017, 12:58:08 PM
can gold+ choose PE seats on the tlv-ewr route?
No
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: damaxer91 on November 08, 2017, 03:29:42 PM
Wont miss this clown

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-ceo-quits-1001210869
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 08, 2017, 04:05:54 PM
Wont miss this clown

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-el-al-ceo-quits-1001210869

Does that mean the BOS route will be ending soon? ;)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: damaxer91 on November 08, 2017, 04:14:10 PM
Does that mean the BOS route will be ending soon? ;)

Yes
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: VLK on November 10, 2017, 04:30:35 AM
As of March 1st, there is no inventory in F class on the TLV-HKG route.
Why would they do that if they only start flying the 787 on the 18th?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on November 13, 2017, 02:36:19 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/11/13/el-al-787-business-class/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: efflpetzel on November 13, 2017, 02:41:09 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/11/13/el-al-787-business-class/
That's not the airline we're all familiar with.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on November 13, 2017, 02:43:01 PM
That's not the airline we're all familiar with.
I couldn't agree more.. except the part about the crew in J, which has always been top notch IMHO
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: damaxer91 on November 13, 2017, 02:47:57 PM
I think his review is spot-on. El Al's food is usually pretty good in Business (excellent in F) but lacks proper presentation. Service in the premium cabins is almost always very good.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2017, 02:53:04 PM
Unless you order the SKML, in which case it's the same old garbage, no?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Tzfas on November 13, 2017, 03:16:22 PM
Unless you order the SKML, in which case it's the same old garbage, no?
No I just flew with them on the 747 in Business, service was fine and the food was more and better then the regular skml meal in economy.
 
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2017, 03:22:26 PM
No I just flew with them on the 747 in Business, service was fine and the food was more and better then the regular skml meal in economy.
 
POIDH
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on November 13, 2017, 03:50:30 PM
Unless you order the SKML, in which case it's the same old garbage, no?
And it goes beyond LY as they own Borenstein.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2017, 04:12:36 PM
Unless you order the SKML, in which case it's the same old garbage, no?
NO! I just reconfirmed again with one of my clients who flies El Al business class multiple times every year for a few decades already, and he told me that although the regular meal looks a bit fresher and better, the SKML in business is still much better than the SKML in economy (and he's flown economy plenty too)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2017, 04:16:21 PM
NO! I just reconfirmed again with one of my clients who flies El Al business class multiple times every year for a few decades already, and he told me that although the regular meal looks a bit fresher and better, the SKML in business is still much better than the SKML in economy (and he's flown economy plenty too)
I'm not asking about the SKML in Y.
I'm asking what is the difference between the LY SKML in J and the UA KSML in J. Pics please.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on November 13, 2017, 04:29:10 PM
ElAl follows all the blogs. Maybe they made sure he'll have a good experience...?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2017, 04:40:03 PM
ElAl follows all the blogs. Maybe they made sure he'll have a good experience...?
But he didn't post an exact date that he's flying in advance of his trip, IINM.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2017, 04:42:21 PM
But he didn't post an exact date that he's flying in advance of his trip, IINM.
Shame that LY has no way to lookup his name.
Oh wait...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: moish on November 13, 2017, 04:42:38 PM
ElAl follows all the blogs. Maybe they made sure he'll have a good experience...?
I dont know anyone who had a bad experience flying LY premium. I certainly never had one.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2017, 04:52:18 PM
Shame that LY has no way to lookup his name.
Oh wait...
Lol. You got me on that....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2017, 05:09:59 PM
I'm not asking about the SKML in Y.
I'm asking what is the difference between the LY SKML in J and the UA KSML in J. Pics please.
Just asked him. He barely flies UA (in comparison to LY, at least), but he said from what he can remember, he believes ex-TLV they both give the same meal. From the US, he doesn't remember. But he very often books his trips within 24 hrs of the flight, and doesn't have a KSML at all. (El Al can usually confirm SKML as close as 7 hrs to departure - depending on route/time)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on November 13, 2017, 05:13:21 PM
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/11/13/el-al-787-business-class/
The comments there. Oh the comments...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 13, 2017, 05:22:09 PM
Just asked him. He barely flies UA (in comparison to LY, at least), but he said from what he can remember, he believes ex-TLV they both give the same meal. From the US, he doesn't remember. But he very often books his trips within 24 hrs of the flight, and doesn't have a KSML at all. (El Al can usually confirm SKML as close as 7 hrs to departure - depending on route/time)
Not sure what the No was for then.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 13, 2017, 05:26:37 PM
Not sure what the No was for then.
I understood that you were comparing SKML Y to SKML J saying that someone who orders SKML will be getting the same "garbage" (as you call it) an he'd get in Y class. That's what I was replying to. Sorry we misunderstood each other
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: efflpetzel on November 13, 2017, 10:05:16 PM
The comments there. Oh the comments...
disgusting. simply disgusting
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ludmila on November 13, 2017, 10:08:54 PM
disgusting. simply disgusting
+1
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Something Fishy on November 13, 2017, 10:19:23 PM
disgusting. simply disgusting

If you think the comments are disgusting, wait till you see the men in Tel Aviv ;D.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: efflpetzel on November 13, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
If you think the comments are disgusting, wait till you see the men in Tel Aviv ;D.
I spent a few years of my life in the Tel Aviv area, it never struck me as the gay capital of the world
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shimino1 on November 14, 2017, 08:53:14 AM
I spent a few years of my life in the Tel Aviv area, it never struck me as the gay capital of the world
I wish that were true...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 14, 2017, 09:59:20 AM
Could we move past this discussion already? Many people still consider this a Kosher place to get useful information. Let's try to keep it that way.
For those who really can't resist, there's another forum known as JS where you can let out all of your stomach aches there.
(Hint: it's in the exact same format as DDF...)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on November 14, 2017, 10:24:17 AM
Could we move past this discussion already? Many people still consider this a Kosher place to get useful information. Let's try to keep it that way.
For those who really can't resist, there's another forum known as JS where you can let out all of your stomach aches there.
(Hint: it's in the exact same format as DDF...)
A major part of the DDF format is going OT. But I definitely agree with you that this specific topic should cease on this thread.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 14, 2017, 10:32:32 AM
A major part of the DDF format is going OT. But I definitely agree with you that this specific topic should cease on this thread.
It was actually you who opened this discussion here. But hey, I do have to give you credit for making a post in this thread without anything anti-El Al in it.
(I'm sure that took a lot of self control...)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
I'll second the part that experience in LY premium is generally top notch. The reason people are so confused is because unfortunately service in Y is extremely poor.

@Dan, regarding the food, LY SKML is definitely better than KSML on UA. Heck UA KSML comes from the same kitchen as LY KSML and over there it's for sure no comparison. Reason is LY owns bornstein and it's in their own interest that they should have better food than the competitors. Sorry no pics. Maybe I can dig up.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2017, 01:58:38 PM
I don't understand the dearth of LY J SKML pics.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: a mirrer on November 14, 2017, 02:09:47 PM
I don't understand the dearth of LY J SKML pics.
maybe because its so good that everyone just digs in without having time for pictures  :P
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on November 14, 2017, 02:12:18 PM
I don't understand the dearth of LY J SKML pics.
I didn't know that anyone cared that much  :) I'm flying with them next week, I'm pretty sure i'll find someone who doesn't mind if I take a few pics ::)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 14, 2017, 02:16:46 PM
787 not on SeatGuru yet. How long does it usually take a plane to be posted there?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
And don't forget they are the only one serving Kosher Wine which is very nice.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on November 14, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
I don't understand the dearth of LY J SKML pics.
Most likely because the people who would post pictures didn't for the outdated product
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on November 14, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
And don't forget they are the only one serving Kosher Wine which is very nice.
I got a bottle on swiss
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2017, 02:18:34 PM
And don't forget they are the only one serving Kosher Wine which is very nice.
UA is now serving Covenant
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mmgfarb on November 14, 2017, 04:10:21 PM
I got a bottle on swiss
So did I, I don't remember what it was but I remember thinking it wasn't even worth opening.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on November 14, 2017, 05:36:51 PM
So did I, I don't remember what it was but I remember thinking it wasn't even worth opening.
The one I got was decent albeit nothing major. Worth opening though.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170608/cad18819af337faecd7b3ac2937f24b6.jpg)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 06:36:06 PM
UA is now serving Covenant
EX NYC?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2017, 06:37:18 PM
Yes.
Ask for it and report back :)

FAs may not know about it, but have them look or ask the ISM.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 07:07:15 PM
Interesting. So maybe the KSML also got better  :)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 14, 2017, 07:12:52 PM
Reason is LY owns bornstein and it's in their own interest that they should have better food than the competitors.
Interesting. Doesn't LY give Regal for the SKML ex-NYC?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on November 14, 2017, 07:27:04 PM
And don't forget they are the only one serving Kosher Wine which is very nice.
AC does as well
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on November 14, 2017, 07:28:02 PM
I'll second the part that experience in LY premium is generally top notch. The reason people are so confused is because unfortunately service in Y is extremely poor.

@Dan, regarding the food, LY SKML is definitely better than KSML on UA. Heck UA KSML comes from the same kitchen as LY KSML and over there it's for sure no comparison. Reason is LY owns bornstein and it's in their own interest that they should have better food than the competitors. Sorry no pics. Maybe I can dig up.
LY can not take food directly to the plane, it most go thru LSG etc. Now if LSG servers me a meal a month after expiration then who is at fault?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 09:10:54 PM
LY can not take food directly to the plane, it most go thru LSG etc. Now if LSG servers me a meal a month after expiration then who is at fault?
C'mon with LY for some reason you never get stuff a month after expiration.   LSG is a good excuse. LY picks up the food a few hours before departure. If they have to hand the food to LSG to physically bring it to the plane that's possible. But LY is making sure meals are fresh. I've had multiple times a few hours before the flight I called up the ELAL station managers and they were still able to call up the guy who does the delivery and add another meal for last minute booking etc. In other words LSG is not the issue.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on November 14, 2017, 09:13:56 PM
C'mon with LY for some reason you never get stuff a month after expiration.   LSG is a good excuse. LY picks up the food a few hours before departure. If they have to hand the food to LSG to physically bring it to the plane that's possible. But LY is making sure meals are fresh. I've had multiple times a few hours before the flight I called up the ELAL station managers and they were still able to call up the guy who does the delivery and add another meal for last minute booking etc. In other words LSG is not the issue.
I'm not sure which side you are taking here. - I was served an old expired meal on AA, and LY claims that they deliver fresh to LSG and the old meal I got is LSGs fault
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 09:17:39 PM
I'm not sure which side you are taking here. - I was served an old expired meal on AA, and LY claims that they deliver fresh to LSG and the old meal I got is LSGs fault
LY claims? Are you talking about bornstein or LY? I understand that LY is the parent company but how did you get LY involved?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on November 14, 2017, 09:22:09 PM
LY claims? Are you talking about bornstein or LY? I understand that LY is the parent company but how did you get LY involved?
Ok, I meant Borenstein. But the claim the it must go thru LSG I heard from LY
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on November 14, 2017, 09:23:19 PM
LO also serves wine FYI
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Something Fishy on November 14, 2017, 09:46:33 PM
I made a new thread listing airlines that serve kosher wine. Please add what you know and edit the wiki.

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=85519.0
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on November 14, 2017, 10:28:28 PM
I made a new thread listing airlines that serve kosher wine. Please add what you know and edit the wiki.

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=85519.0
Funny how this is an offshoot of this thread and not the KSML thread
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Something Fishy on November 14, 2017, 10:35:06 PM
Funny how this is an offshoot of this thread and not the KSML thread

Makes sense considering the law that every DDF thread must go way off topic. A wine conversation wouldn't be that egregious in the KSML thread, so naturally it spun off this one instead.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on November 14, 2017, 11:02:37 PM
Interesting. Doesn't LY give Regal for the SKML ex-NYC?
Regal is the same thing as Boresntein but with a different label/hashgacha. Same food types being prepared in separate section.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on November 14, 2017, 11:05:16 PM
And don't forget they are the only one serving Kosher Wine which is very nice.
Air Canada officially serves
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 14, 2017, 11:12:42 PM
Was talking EX NYC.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on November 14, 2017, 11:16:21 PM
Was talking EX NYC.
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency/il/en/delta-in-israel.html
The last line in this article says that they serve kosher wine on this route
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on November 15, 2017, 12:26:58 AM
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency/il/en/delta-in-israel.html
The last line in this article says that they serve kosher wine on this route
It seems like they are talking EX TLV.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on November 15, 2017, 01:09:07 AM
EX means “leaving from”?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Something Fishy on November 15, 2017, 01:09:31 AM
EX means “leaving from”?

Yup
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on November 15, 2017, 02:22:08 AM
ElAl: Lawsuit on Matmid Points approved as class action

Google translate from Tel Aviv Stock Exchange filling:


"Further to the immediate report of the Company dated April 15, 2015 (Ref. No. 01-079609), regarding the request to approve a claim as a class action ("the Motion"), which was filed against the Company regarding the change in the terms of the Frequent Flyer Club ("Club" The Company confirmed that on November 14, 2017, the District Court of Tel Aviv-Jaffa approved the request. The main remedies are declaratory relief, which indicates that the changes made in the club program conditions were made unlawfully; Monetary compensation for members of the group for damage caused to them as a result of changes in club conditions; Or alternatively issuing an order instructing the company to allow club members to take advantage of points accumulated in the past according to the club's conditions prior to the change. The group of claimants was generally defined as members of the club, which at the time of each of the changes made, held points and their points were devalued due to the changes.

The Company is examining the decision and its implications"

 
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on November 15, 2017, 06:45:51 AM
ElAl: Lawsuit on Matmid Points approved as class action

Google translate from Tel Aviv Stock Exchange filling:


"Further to the immediate report of the Company dated April 15, 2015 (Ref. No. 01-079609), regarding the request to approve a claim as a class action ("the Motion"), which was filed against the Company regarding the change in the terms of the Frequent Flyer Club ("Club" The Company confirmed that on November 14, 2017, the District Court of Tel Aviv-Jaffa approved the request. The main remedies are declaratory relief, which indicates that the changes made in the club program conditions were made unlawfully; Monetary compensation for members of the group for damage caused to them as a result of changes in club conditions; Or alternatively issuing an order instructing the company to allow club members to take advantage of points accumulated in the past according to the club's conditions prior to the change. The group of claimants was generally defined as members of the club, which at the time of each of the changes made, held points and their points were devalued due to the changes.

The Company is examining the decision and its implications"
Nice. Perhaps this should be done with every airline that makes a devaluation (any that don't? ) that they should have to compensate for the decreased value of the miles earned prior to the devaluation.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on November 15, 2017, 08:36:48 AM
When signing up for the program don't you agree to the T&C that they can change the rules without notice?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: moe8555 on November 15, 2017, 09:04:25 AM
When signing up for the program don't you agree to the T&C that they can change the rules without notice?

I think this case specifically deals with the perceived lack of good faith when they devalued shortly after releasing the Fly Card a couple years back.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Cashman on December 09, 2017, 08:22:08 PM
Have the option to fly LY 787 biz or UA 777 biz price is the same. Whats the popular vote ?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hershelsdeals on December 09, 2017, 08:26:30 PM
Have the option to fly LY 787 biz or UA 777 biz price is the same. Whats the popular vote ?
Flip a coin

I flew both.

United has WiFi, LY doesn't have yet.
LY have slightly better Glatt kosher food
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 09, 2017, 08:29:07 PM
772 or 77W?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hershelsdeals on December 09, 2017, 08:29:35 PM
772 or 77W?
All the above in the past 6 months
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 09, 2017, 08:30:38 PM
Was asking @Cashman

UA 77W should be a wider seat than LY 787.

Any LY SKML pics?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Cashman on December 09, 2017, 08:32:11 PM
772 or 77W?
77W
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on December 09, 2017, 09:32:37 PM
Was asking @Cashman

UA 77W should be a wider seat than LY 787.

Any LY SKML pics?
People say LY seat is a bit wider. Guess they made the aisles narrow enough..
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 09, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
Seems hard to believe given the size of a 787 and 77W.
Need to someone to measure both...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ar on December 09, 2017, 09:42:17 PM
Seems hard to believe given7 the size of a 787 and 77W.
Need to someone to measure both...

Flew both. LY 787 is a real winner, even in Y

Legroom is decent, pitch is amazing (bottom part of seat moves along) & seat itself is very comfortable fabric. Similar to UA reg old 777 but newer

United 77W seats are hard narrow and uncomfortable

If I need to choose regular economy to Israel (without upgrading to econ plus) the LY 787 would be my first choice
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 09, 2017, 09:43:22 PM
Interesting.
I've heard from several readers who thought that LY 787 Y was a torture chamber.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on December 09, 2017, 09:46:36 PM
Interesting.
I've heard from several readers who thought that LY 787 Y was a torture chamber.
+1
Everyone complains on Y cabin
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ludmila on December 09, 2017, 10:09:23 PM
Flew both. LY 787 is a real winner, even in Y

Legroom is decent, pitch is amazing (bottom part of seat moves along) & seat itself is very comfortable fabric. Similar to UA reg old 777 but newer

United 77W seats are hard narrow and uncomfortable

If I need to choose regular economy to Israel (without upgrading to econ plus) the LY 787 would be my first choice
+1 I never flew it myself, a couple of family members did and their impression is like yours.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ar on December 10, 2017, 12:07:07 PM
Interesting.
I've heard from several readers who thought that LY 787 Y was a torture chamber.

Very interesting since I am a very frequent flyer and the LY 787 was the best econ cabin experience I had in a while. Was on the red-eye TLV/EWR window seat, front cabin.

I can say that UA or Delta Econ Plus is better. But for reg economy LY 787 was really nice
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 12:11:24 PM
Very interesting since I am a very frequent flyer and the LY 787 was the best econ cabin experience I had in a while. Was on the red-eye TLV/EWR window seat, front cabin.

I can say that UA or Delta Econ Plus is better. But for reg economy LY 787 was really nice
Opinion likely depends on whether you need the extra seat width and how much you are addicted to the internet.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yelped on December 10, 2017, 12:57:51 PM
Opinion likely depends on whether you need the extra seat width and how much you are addicted to the internet.
If it's wider, and the air is better due to it being the 787, then isn't that a bigger deal than Wi-Fi to 95% of economy passengers? Especially since they should be installing WiFi in the beginning of 2018 iirc.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 12:59:32 PM
787 Y is much narrower than 772 Y
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on December 10, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
Interesting.
I've heard from several readers who thought that LY 787 Y was is a torture chamber.
FTFY

Might be highly correlated to the soft product.

Isn't their moto "it isn't an airline, it's Israel " or something to that effect?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Ergel on December 10, 2017, 01:18:39 PM
787 Y on AC was pretty bad too. Fortunately, my company has agreed to pay for PE going forward
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ar on December 10, 2017, 01:47:27 PM
Was on AC 787 Y and was terrible

Somehow the LY 787 doesn't feel narrow. I'm thinking that maybe the seat pitch and legroom is better on LY 787 and that is why it is so much more comfortable than LY 777

Maybe they took some aisle space.. don't know. Where can we see seat width on the LY 787? Seat guru is not out yet
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yelped on December 10, 2017, 02:00:46 PM
787 Y is much narrower than 772 Y
Right, but this is relative to the 77W. Can make a difference for someone who needs the night flights.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
Was on AC 787 Y and was terrible

Somehow the LY 787 doesn't feel narrow. I'm thinking that maybe the seat pitch and legroom is better on LY 787 and that is why it is so much more comfortable than LY 777

Maybe they took some aisle space.. don't know. Where can we see seat width on the LY 787? Seat guru is not out yet
Should be identical to AC. Maybe you were having an LY halo effect.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on December 10, 2017, 02:11:12 PM
Was on AC 787 Y and was terrible

Somehow the LY 787 doesn't feel narrow. I'm thinking that maybe the seat pitch and legroom is better on LY 787 and that is why it is so much more comfortable than LY 777

Maybe they took some aisle space.. don't know. Where can we see seat width on the LY 787? Seat guru is not out yet

See attached both maps
They are almost the same, I believe that LY feels more cramped because the Jet is narrower.
UA:
Width 17.05" (43.3 cm)
Pitch 31" (78 cm)


LY:
Width 17"
Pitch 31"

Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 02:11:56 PM
Right, but this is relative to the 77W. Can make a difference for someone who needs the night flights.
Except we were asking about the best Y seat from EWR:

Flew both. LY 787 is a real winner, even in Y

Legroom is decent, pitch is amazing (bottom part of seat moves along) & seat itself is very comfortable fabric. Similar to UA reg old 777 but newer

If I need to choose regular economy to Israel (without upgrading to econ plus) the LY 787 would be my first choice

I have a hard time believing best Y seat from EWR isn't the UA 772.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 02:13:10 PM
See attached both maps
They are almost the same, I believe that LY feels more cramped because the Jet is narrower.
UA:
Width 17.05" (43.3 cm)
Pitch 31" (78 cm)


LY:
Width 17"
Pitch 31"


77W and 787 are pretty awful in Y.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 02:13:41 PM
787 Y on AC was pretty bad too. Fortunately, my company has agreed to pay for PE going forward
Nice!
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: brodes18 on December 10, 2017, 02:36:12 PM
Except we were asking about the best Y seat from EWR

I think his point was that if you need to take a night flight on the return from TLV, your options are 77W from UA or 787 from LY.

Between the two they sound similar to me, I guess it might be seat comfort itself?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ar on December 10, 2017, 02:39:23 PM
See attached both maps
They are almost the same, I believe that LY feels more cramped because the Jet is narrower.
UA:
Width 17.05" (43.3 cm)
Pitch 31" (78 cm)


LY:
Width 17"
Pitch 31"

You forgot to add seat recline:

UA 3"
UA economy plus 4"
LY economy 5"
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 03:02:41 PM
The flip side to seat recline is the person in front of you reclining.

Though less chance of your laptop being crushed if there's no WiFi ;)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: srf60 on December 10, 2017, 03:35:30 PM




I have a hard time believing best Y seat from EWR isn't the UA 772.

For sure.
Flying the 772 after flying 77W/787 in Y, I was like this must be pre econ.....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 10, 2017, 07:02:05 PM
The flip side to seat recline is the person in front of you reclining.

Though less chance of your laptop being crushed if there's no WiFi ;)
You are an official expert in flipping every positive thing about LY into a negative. Wow!
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:34:51 PM
Didn't say it was only negative, but there's a reason airlines don't give unlimited recline on 31" of pitch. It's a major trade-off.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ar on December 10, 2017, 07:35:52 PM
You are an official expert in flipping every positive thing about LY into a negative. Wow!

I don't like to bash Dan - but he clearly has a bias against LY. I never heard a word of him bashing BA J among some others (SA etc.) class which is more or less like LY J. Even LH J class is nothing to write home about in some planes...

Dan, I'm am big fan of yours- I'm just being honest

Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 07:42:25 PM
BA J and LH J are known garbage and I've said that, what more should I say about them?

You've said LY 787 Y is better than UA 772 Y, which just about everyone says makes no sense.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mmgfarb on December 10, 2017, 08:51:57 PM
I don't like to bash Dan - but he clearly has a bias against LY. I never heard a word of him bashing BA J among some others (SA etc.) class which is more or less like LY J. Even LH J class is nothing to write home about in some planes...

Dan, I'm am big fan of yours- I'm just being honest
There's no need for Dan to write a post about BA and LH not having great J products, that's well known.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ar on December 10, 2017, 10:23:51 PM
There's no need for Dan to write a post about BA and LH not having great J products, that's well known.

So why is LY different? It's also well known. Dan keeps on poking fun at their product...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 10, 2017, 10:26:03 PM
So why is LY different? It's also well known.
And yet, here you are saying how amazing the LY 787 Y was...
Nobody ever posts how amazing BA/LH J are.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Cashman on December 24, 2017, 11:13:20 AM
Just landed in TLV flying J on the Dreamliner. If anyone has any questions feel free to PM. I loved it
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 11:23:58 AM
Post a quick TR?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Cashman on December 24, 2017, 11:26:40 AM
Post a quick TR?
checking into WAJ now. Will do it later tonight IYH.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 24, 2017, 01:05:43 PM
I loved it
Do you also own a blog? Did you have Adi as your flight attendant? ;)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 01:32:41 PM
Do you also own a blog? Did you have Adi as your flight attendant? ;)
Nobody said 787 J would not be enjoyable.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 24, 2017, 01:40:56 PM
Nobody said 787 J would not be enjoyable.
But plenty here said that Lucky's TR was useless because they were "all too prepared for him"....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 01:51:17 PM
But plenty here said that Lucky's TR was useless because they were "all too prepared for him"....
Considering he got a proactive chauffeur offered on an award and all of LYs social media shared his posts, do you disagree with them?

I wouldn't say it's useless, but it's clearly not what others would get. That doesn't mean it's not entertaining, which is ultimately what his blog is about. See his profile in RS if you want to see what it's about.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 24, 2017, 02:02:20 PM
See his profile in RS if you want to see what it's about.
What's RS?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on December 24, 2017, 02:03:42 PM
Rolling stone
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Cashman on December 24, 2017, 05:45:26 PM
Do you also own a blog? Did you have Adi as your flight attendant? ;)

Okay for starters NO I don’t own a blog and I am not getting comped for this TR. I am an average working guy who travels a lot. And this will be my first TR.

Now for the TR :  I am going to compare the LY Dreamliner to other aircrafts that fly this route. I was seated in 14A which has more privacy due to the table being in between you and the aisle. I loved the personal closet they give you. It was very roomy and due to lack of WiFi i stored my cell phone in there and other personal items.  Another plus was when lying down there is a area for your glasses which I though was a cool amenity.

The seat itself was very comfortable and you can pickup the leather headrest to make room for your pillow.  There was plenty of legroom for myself. (Disclaimer I’m 5’8). The seat can be maneuverd to a relaxing position and lie flat position and I found both to be very comfortable.

They finally figured out a way to make the eating tray manuervable where although the food is on the tray you can get out to wash your hands.

Another perk was the tint on the windows which some may not like. As it was an evening flight there are no shades on the windows but they have a tint that they activate that turns the outdoors completely dark and there is no way at night to see if there is sunlight outside. Morning time they took of the restriction and your were free to either activate the tint or remove it.

In regards to staff and food. I always find that while LY staff in eco is horrible. When it comes to J it’s a great experience. I eat the standard kosher meal and had a great piece of salmon for dinner and a omelette for breakfast.

Bathrooms are still very small and the aisles I’m guessing to add room for seats are very thin making it tough for two people to pass at the same time.

Entertainment was excellent with a choice of 142 movies with very comfortable headphones and if you were in the mood a channel playing the daf yomi shiur.

So yes I was very happy and it’s tremendous improvement for their old J class
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: pashakym on December 24, 2017, 06:47:46 PM
Considering he got a proactive chauffeur offered on an award and all of LYs social media shared his posts, do you disagree with them?

I wouldn't say it's useless, but it's clearly not what others would get. That doesn't mean it's not entertaining, which is ultimately what his blog is about. See his profile in RS if you want to see what it's about.

It wasn't an award flight. He paid cash for his ticket and paid points for his mom's ticket.

(Based on his comment here http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/11/13/el-al-787-business-class)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on December 24, 2017, 06:55:55 PM
It wasn't an award flight. He paid cash for his ticket and paid points for his mom's ticket.

(Based on his comment here http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/11/13/el-al-787-business-class)
That was for the EWR-TLV flight. For the TLV-LHR segment he redeemed QF miles.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 06:57:19 PM
For the TLV-LHR segment he redeemed QF miles.
And that was the chauffeur flight.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
Okay for starters NO I don’t own a blog and I am not getting comped for this TR. I am an average working guy who travels a lot. And this will be my first TR.

Now for the TR :  I am going to compare the LY Dreamliner to other aircrafts that fly this route. I was seated in 14A which has more privacy due to the table being in between you and the aisle. I loved the personal closet they give you. It was very roomy and due to lack of WiFi i stored my cell phone in there and other personal items.  Another plus was when lying down there is a area for your glasses which I though was a cool amenity.

The seat itself was very comfortable and you can pickup the leather headrest to make room for your pillow.  There was plenty of legroom for myself. (Disclaimer I’m 5’8). The seat can be maneuverd to a relaxing position and lie flat position and I found both to be very comfortable.

They finally figured out a way to make the eating tray manuervable where although the food is on the tray you can get out to wash your hands.

Another perk was the tint on the windows which some may not like. As it was an evening flight there are no shades on the windows but they have a tint that they activate that turns the outdoors completely dark and there is no way at night to see if there is sunlight outside. Morning time they took of the restriction and your were free to either activate the tint or remove it.

In regards to staff and food. I always find that while LY staff in eco is horrible. When it comes to J it’s a great experience. I eat the standard kosher meal and had a great piece of salmon for dinner and a omelette for breakfast.

Bathrooms are still very small and the aisles I’m guessing to add room for seats are very thin making it tough for two people to pass at the same time.

Entertainment was excellent with a choice of 142 movies with very comfortable headphones and if you were in the mood a channel playing the daf yomi shiur.

So yes I was very happy and it’s tremendous improvement for their old J class
Nice TR!
Any pics?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: pashakym on December 24, 2017, 07:02:44 PM
That was for the EWR-TLV flight. For the TLV-LHR segment he redeemed QF miles.

Oh... Yes ... so may be I will get it as well?  :P
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on December 24, 2017, 08:56:59 PM
Oh... Yes ... so may be I will get it as well?  :P
Its possible that the people that do the chauffeur service don't know anything about booking classes, they only know that if its says Matmid booking or something like that they don't offer a chauffeur. But most probably it goes according to the booking class.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on December 25, 2017, 07:43:24 AM
Its possible that the people that do the chauffeur service don't know anything about booking classes

The chauffeur service is coordinated through a division of ElAl, called Sherut Shalom. I used the service a couple of weeks ago of a F award, however this is only for TP Matmid (which I am) per Matmid regulations. so Lucky wasn't entitled to it..

Also the "chauffeur" that was sent to pick me up was an old taxi from the Castel station in Tel Aviv, and not the fancy car that picked up Lucky
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: brodes18 on December 31, 2017, 11:00:39 PM
In doing some research on the TLV-HKG route, I note that El-Al consistently charges $2628 for a one way and $3325 for a round trip in business. Cathay on the other hand charges $4925 for a one way and $7576 for a round trip on the same route.

https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=HKG;t=TLV;d=2018-08-14;r=2018-08-18;tt=o;sc=b;s=0

Now today, CX flies their A350 on this route, while LY flies their 777 on this route. Reports on FT are that this route has been very successful for them and that getting a J award ticket is hard to find. I get spending more for CX here since Lie flat cannot compare to LY angle flat.

Now in March LY is switching the 787 onto this route. The hard product will be superior to the one CX offers. Will LY raise their price, or will CX be forced to lower it. Either way, its' interesting to see how this will play out.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mmgfarb on December 31, 2017, 11:48:03 PM
In doing some research on the TLV-HKG route, I note that El-Al consistently charges $2628 for a one way and $3325 for a round trip in business. Cathay on the other hand charges $4925 for a one way and $7576 for a round trip on the same route.

https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=HKG;t=TLV;d=2018-08-14;r=2018-08-18;tt=o;sc=b;s=0

Now today, CX flies their A350 on this route, while LY flies their 777 on this route. Reports on FT are that this route has been very successful for them and that getting a J award ticket is hard to find. I get spending more for CX here since Lie flat cannot compare to LY angle flat.

Now in March LY is switching the 787 onto this route. The hard product will be superior to the one CX offers. Will LY raise their price, or will CX be forced to lower it. Either way, its' interesting to see how this will play out.
Why do you say that LY 787 is a better hard product then CX A350?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elya on January 01, 2018, 12:42:07 AM
Why do you say that LY 787 is a better hard product then CX A350?
He didn't say better, just competitive.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on January 01, 2018, 12:47:07 AM
He didn't say better, just competitive.
Superior?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mmgfarb on January 01, 2018, 12:50:01 AM
He didn't say better, just competitive.
He said superior.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: David Smith on January 01, 2018, 02:14:39 AM
When is Wi-Fi happening?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: David Smith on January 01, 2018, 02:23:41 AM


In doing some research on the TLV-HKG route, I note that El-Al consistently charges $2628 for a one way and $3325 for a round trip in business. Cathay on the other hand charges $4925 for a one way and $7576 for a round trip on the same route.

https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=HKG;t=TLV;d=2018-08-14;r=2018-08-18;tt=o;sc=b;s=0

Now today, CX flies their A350 on this route, while LY flies their 777 on this route. Reports on FT are that this route has been very successful for them and that getting a J award ticket is hard to find. I get spending more for CX here since Lie flat cannot compare to LY angle flat.

Now in March LY is switching the 787 onto this route. The hard product will be superior to the one CX offers. Will LY raise their price, or will CX be forced to lower it. Either way, its' interesting to see how this will play out.

Where are you getting those CX prices from? CX is $2500/$4000. (CX schedule is much more limited, and award space is nonexistent.)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shimino1 on January 01, 2018, 03:46:08 AM
In doing some research on the TLV-HKG route, I note that El-Al consistently charges $2628 for a one way and $3325 for a round trip in business. Cathay on the other hand charges $4925 for a one way and $7576 for a round trip on the same route.
Those prices are definitely not indicative of what CX usually charges.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shauly on January 01, 2018, 06:06:46 AM

Where are you getting those CX prices from? CX is $2500/$4000. (CX schedule is much more limited, and award space is nonexistent.)

Non existent? I've personally booked more than 10 seats on it.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 01, 2018, 11:03:12 AM


award space is nonexistent.)

-1
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on January 01, 2018, 11:43:32 AM
Show me one CX date available.

I can never find
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: sillypainter on January 01, 2018, 12:25:24 PM
Show me one CX date available.

I can never find

PUTPAC. Don't rely on BA.com, it sucks with CX availability.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: brodes18 on January 01, 2018, 12:38:29 PM
Those prices are definitely not indicative of what CX usually charges.
What does CX usually charge. All if the days show the same price
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on January 01, 2018, 01:22:38 PM
PUTPAC. Don't rely on BA.com, it sucks with CX availability.
I check directly with CX site always and find nothing
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: brodes18 on January 01, 2018, 03:22:12 PM
Why do you say that LY 787 is a better hard product then CX A350?

Quote
Though the seats could at best be described as flimsy. Apparently Zodiac are replacing free of charge. Pieces kept popping out.
from FT thread on the CX flight: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28895098-post34.html

There were a few posts noting seat issues on the CX A350 that I read. Assuming that the LY 787 does not have the seats coming apart, its superior to me.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: brodes18 on January 01, 2018, 03:23:28 PM
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/03/16/damaged-substandard-zodiac-seats-hit-cathay-pacific-image/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 01, 2018, 06:13:29 PM
As I've mentioned a few weeks ago, the PE has been an amazing success for El Al. Unfortunately, that gave them good reason to raise the starting price to $2101.12!!! (for P class). Hopefully, DL switches the route to the a350 soon to add some competition in the market. In the meantime, Delta is "fooling" people into premium economy on the a330 at expensive rates for a worthless product (same 8 abreast as economy)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 01, 2018, 06:19:43 PM
As I've mentioned a few weeks ago, the PE has been an amazing success for El Al. Unfortunately, that gave them good reason to raise the starting price to $2101.12!!! (for P class). Hopefully, DL switches the route to the a350 soon to add some competition in the market. In the meantime, Delta is "fooling" people into premium economy on the a330 at expensive rates for a worthless product (same 8 abreast as economy)
Don't see DL should be expensive. They price W dynamic, basically whatever Econ is still available plus a markup, I believe it's the same like econ with E+ round trip
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 01, 2018, 06:24:54 PM
Don't see DL should be expensive. They price W dynamic, basically whatever Econ is still available plus a markup, I believe it's the same like econ with E+ round trip
I didn't compare it, but it very misleading (calling it PE) nonetheless.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 01, 2018, 06:25:32 PM
I didn't compare it, but it very misleading (calling it PE) nonetheless.
Old story, and even selling it side by side with AF PE and VS PE
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 01, 2018, 06:27:10 PM
Old story, and even selling it side by side with AF PE and VS PE
But I believe W to TLV is a new thing, no?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 01, 2018, 06:28:59 PM
But I believe W to TLV is a new thing, no?
Yes. I see it starts Jan 22
 21JAN  SUN   TLV/Z‡2     NYC/EST-7                             
1DL     467 J9 C7 D5 I2 Z0 TLVJFK 1130P  530A‡1 333 D 0 DCA /E 
            Y9 B9 M9 H9 Q9 K9 L9 U4 T1 X0 V0 E0                 
 22JAN  MON   TLV/Z‡2     NYC/EST-7                             
1DL     467 J9 C9 D9 I5 Z0 TLVJFK 1130P  530A‡1 333 D 0 DCA /E 
            W9 Y9 B9 M9 H9 Q9 K9 L9 U9 T9 X9 V9 E0             
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 01, 2018, 08:58:12 PM
I believe it's just about the same as upgrade to economy plus would cost. In any case, if something, travel agents benefit from this as they finally get a commission for economy plus...

Used to be time consuming, issue separate etc, now it's all in the tkt + you earn commissions
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 01, 2018, 09:10:33 PM
I believe it's just about the same as upgrade to economy plus would cost. In any case, if something, travel agents benefit from this as they finally get a commission for economy plus...

Used to be time consuming, issue separate etc, now it's all in the tkt + you earn commissions
Or the airlines should be nice and pay com for EMDs. Some airlines do
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 01, 2018, 09:59:22 PM
Or the airlines should be nice and pay com for EMDs. Some airlines do
Really? Any common airline?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 01, 2018, 10:24:12 PM
Really? Any common airline?
ANZ & SAS I have seen
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on January 02, 2018, 01:06:23 PM
on a side note W class means PGGM wont work :(
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on January 02, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
on a side note W class means PGGM wont work :(
You can still buy economy and upgrade after, no?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: a mirrer on January 02, 2018, 02:38:02 PM
I check directly with CX site always and find nothing
I find that CX has a lot married segments availability that can be divorced by a good AS or AA rep
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2018, 02:43:30 PM
I find that CX has a lot married segments availability that can be divorced by a good AS or AA rep
+1
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 02, 2018, 04:28:39 PM
I find that CX has a lot married segments availability that can be divorced by a good AS or AA rep
Searchable on BA? QF? or only on CX?

And is getting a good AA rep just a matter of HUCA, or are there better numbers or times to call?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: high end hobo on January 02, 2018, 04:37:33 PM
I find that CX has a lot married segments availability that can be divorced by a good AS or AA rep
TFS
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 07, 2018, 04:02:31 PM
Has anyone here flown PE on 787?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yitrap on January 07, 2018, 04:24:21 PM
I find that CX has a lot married segments availability that can be divorced by a good AS or AA rep
Interesting, any particular routes to try?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 18, 2018, 07:22:47 PM
Don't see DL should be expensive. They price W dynamic, basically whatever Econ is still available plus a markup, I believe it's the same like econ with E+ round trip
I see that you gain a 2nd suitcase when you do it as W
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 18, 2018, 07:23:40 PM
I see that you gain a 2nd suitcase when you do it as W
Plus I believe you can't buy E+ seating anymore, must be W class ticket
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 27, 2018, 05:06:06 PM
LY 1 to switch to the Dreamliner Oct 28 (beginning of winter season). LY will then operate all NYC flights with a 789 with 2 daily flights to JFK and 2 daily flights to EWR, compared to 3 flights total this winter.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 27, 2018, 06:15:51 PM
LY 1 to switch to the Dreamliner Oct 28 (beginning of winter season). LY will then operate all NYC flights with a 789 with 2 daily flights to JFK and 2 daily flights to EWR, compared to 3 flights total this winter.
So what's the change in total seat capacity on LY for TLV-NYC?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: PlatinumGuy on January 27, 2018, 06:38:00 PM
The chauffeur service is coordinated through a division of ElAl, called Sherut Shalom.
Isn't that the TLV KD lounge staff?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 27, 2018, 07:01:15 PM
So what's the change in total seat capacity on LY for TLV-NYC?
You're welcome to do the math. 789 + 744 + 772 vs 789x4
I doubt they added too much capacity because there's really not that much need for more nonstop capacity in the winter. They just about fill what the have now (sometimes)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 27, 2018, 07:30:39 PM
You're welcome to do the math. 789 + 744 + 772 vs 789x4
I doubt they added too much capacity because there's really not that much need for more nonstop capacity in the winter. They just about fill what the have now (sometimes)
I was asking you as I figured you might know. You seem to be indicating what I suspected, that total capacity remains the same (though I was unaware that they only had one 744 on that route - I really don't pay much attention when it comes to LY😉)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 27, 2018, 07:37:57 PM
You seem to be indicating what I suspected, that total capacity remains the same
I honestly did not calculate, but I'm guessing it's more than they have now.

though I was unaware that they only had one 744 on that route
In the winter
Also, I believe that 2 out of 6 have already been retired in the past half year
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on January 27, 2018, 11:57:54 PM
My Aunt recently flew their premium economy, she said besides for the extra legroom it's far from the old LY business class, not worth the extra money
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2018, 01:21:20 AM
My Aunt recently flew their premium economy, she said besides for the extra legroom it's far from the old UA business class, not worth the extra money
Who compared it to the old UA biz?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hershelsdeals on January 28, 2018, 02:00:03 AM
Who compared it to the old UA biz?
Wondering the same
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on January 28, 2018, 02:02:47 AM
You're welcome to do the math. 789 + 744 + 772 vs 789x4
I doubt they added too much capacity because there's really not that much need for more nonstop capacity in the winter. They just about fill what the have now (sometimes)

What do all the numbers refer to?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on January 28, 2018, 07:13:42 AM
I flew it in Biz last week from LHR.
I feel so much has been written already so just trying to be incremental.

I chose 14A which gives you rather good privacy given that you face the window, with a table separating the seat from the aisle.

Conversely those solo seats which face the aisle have close to zero privacy. The same goes for the "honeymoon" duo of seats, where you end up sitting very close to the person next to you. The aisle in J are very narrow, you'd have to step into someone's pod to let someone pass.

In past reports people mentioned that LY was providing noise cancelling headphones, here they provided the regular old ones in the storage units next to the seats. Maybe I was supposed to ask for them but I didn't care since I carry my own set.

Entertainment has roughly 150 movies, with a mix of old and new ones, and the system works from the second you board (as opposed to the old LY where they waited for the system to be above 10k ft before turning it on).

The Premium Y and Y where half empty so I went and tried a few seats. The Premium Y felt very comfortable with lots of space for the legs and nice individual screens. Definitely much better than Y but I hear it's also much more expensive.

I felt Y wasn't as bad as I've been reading, but again I only say for a few minutes as opposed to people seating over 10 hours from Newark. Row 21 which is right behind Premium Y has significant leg room.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: SearchGuy on January 28, 2018, 07:43:28 AM
Who compared it to the old UA biz?
That was a terrible mistake... I meant LY
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 08:56:21 AM
What do all the numbers refer to?
Aircraft types in short.
744 - Boeing 747-400
789 - Boeing 787-9
772 - Boeing 777-200
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
That was a terrible mistake... I meant LY
Still a terrible mistake....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on January 28, 2018, 12:00:09 PM
Aircraft types in short.
744 - Boeing 747-400
789 - Boeing 787-9
772 - Boeing 777-200

Thanks. That’s what I thought just couldn’t fig out why the last number was off on all of them.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 28, 2018, 01:13:09 PM
Thanks. That’s what I thought just couldn’t fig out why the last number was off on all of them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ICAO_aircraft_type_designators
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 03:10:35 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-announces-final-747-flight-north-america-tel-aviv-end-first-class-major-capacity-cut-jfk-tel-aviv-flights/
One of the most misleading titles/tweets I've ever seen on DDMS. They actually added capacity to NYC next winter and DD headline reads "major capacity cut". Gosh! You'd think Newark was on the west coast...
How about something like "El Al adds capacity in Newark while decreasing capacity at JFK" or "LY moves some capacity from JFK over to Newark". Almost reminds me of BBC reporting on Israel. The facts are actually the same. But it's all about how you present it to the readers.
#BashElAl
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on January 28, 2018, 03:17:16 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-announces-final-747-flight-north-america-tel-aviv-end-first-class-major-capacity-cut-jfk-tel-aviv-flights/
One of the most misleading titles/tweets I've ever seen on DDMS. They actually added capacity to NYC next winter and DD headline reads "major capacity cut". Gosh! You'd think Newark was on the west coast...
How about something like "El Al adds capacity in Newark while decreasing capacity at JFK" or "LY moves some capacity from JFK over to Newark". Almost reminds me of BBC reporting on Israel. The facts are actually the same. But it's all about how you present it to the readers.
#BashElAl

I read it exactly how you’re saying, didn’t realize what was really going on until I saw your comment. Maybe just because I skimmed it but it’s definitely misleading. An article about NYC as a whole would be a lot more transparent.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 03:38:20 PM
It's an article about the JFK market. It noted the EWR changes as well. The end.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on January 28, 2018, 04:00:59 PM
It's an article about the JFK market. It noted the EWR changes as well. The end.

Jfk & Ewr market price wise are usually pretty similar. I don’t think this will make such a big diff in price & if it drives up jfk pricing I’m sure many will just go to Newark.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 04:02:19 PM
Jfk & Ewr market price wise are usually pretty similar. I don’t think this will make such a big diff in price & if it drives up jfk pricing I’m sure many will just go to Newark.
I won't be surprised to see JFK priced at a premium to EWR next winter. Not everyone will "just go to EWR" to save a few bucks. Just ask United if people followed them to EWR when they dumped JFK.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 28, 2018, 04:08:33 PM
I won't be surprised to see JFK priced at a premium to EWR next winter. Not everyone will "just go to EWR" to save a few bucks. Just ask United if people followed them to EWR when they dumped JFK.
I don't know what it is currently, but many times I've seen people take the EWR flight because it was priced a little cheaper than JFK.

However, maybe with the explosive growth of Lakewood and it's surroundings, and the exodus of young families from Brooklyn into SI, NJ and even PA, EWR becomes more desirable than JFK for a larger audience justifying the split.

The failure of DL's 2nd flight is what I can't figure out. I think if I would live in South FL, I'd rather fly from FLL and connect in JFK, than fly out of MIA.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 04:09:39 PM
I don't know what it is currently, but many times I've seen people take the EWR flight because it was priced a little cheaper than JFK.
Sure, many will and many won't, as I implied.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on January 28, 2018, 04:11:30 PM
I won't be surprised to see JFK priced at a premium to EWR next winter. Not everyone will "just go to EWR" to save a few bucks. Just ask United if people followed them to EWR when they dumped JFK.

You’d be right if it’s about saving “a few bucks” but If its over $100 more & you’re not flying solo I’m sure ppl will go to ewr. United is consistently significantly more expensive than elal, otherwise I’d be flying them a lot more often, yes from EWR.

Pricing aside I know ppl who fly to ewr because they feel customs is easier there (as somebody else mentioned in DDMS comments). I think they’re crazy but obviously flying EWR from NY is not as hard as ppl think. I’ve done it as well & i was quite surprised how overrated the diff is from driving to jfk.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 04:13:12 PM
You’d be right if it’s about saving “a few bucks” but If its over $100 more & you’re not flying solo I’m sure ppl will go to ewr. United is consistently significantly more expensive than elal, otherwise I’d be flying them a lot more often, yes from EWR.

Pricing aside I know ppl who fly to ewr because they feel customs is easier there (as somebody else mentioned in DDMS comments). I think they’re crazy but obviously flying EWR from NY is not as hard as ppl think. I’ve done it as well & i was quite surprised how overrated the diff is from driving to jfk.
Plenty of people have a mindset that they won't go to EWR, no matter what. That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 28, 2018, 04:17:00 PM

Plenty of people have a mindset that they won't go to EWR, no matter what. That's just the way it is.
If you use traditional long term parking, I think EWR is cheaper. But IINM JFK has on-street free long term parking in greater proximity.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 04:17:46 PM
If you use traditional long term parking, I think EWR is cheaper. But IINM JFK has on-street free long term parking in greater proximity.
It's a mindset, not logic. Discovered it after lecturing to thousands of people in NYC over the years.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on January 28, 2018, 04:37:18 PM
It's a mindset, not logic. Discovered it after lecturing to thousands of people in NYC over the years.

$$$ can change that easily. Regardless, if there will be more overall capacity, hopefully that’ll keep prices where they’ve been until now or maybe even cheaper from EWR. I’d be surprised if they’d be able to pull off a big premium to fly from JFK over EWR.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 04:41:35 PM
$$$ can change that easily. Regardless, if there will be more overall capacity, hopefully that’ll keep prices where they’ve been until now or maybe even cheaper from EWR. I’d be surprised if they’d be able to pull off a big premium to fly from JFK over EWR.
I don't think they'll get a big premium, but a $50-$100 premium isn't out of the question.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 28, 2018, 04:59:15 PM
I don't think they'll get a big premium, but a $50-$100 premium isn't out of the question.
FWIW, a nephew recently flew especially from TLV to EWR (despite the inconvenience and extra cost in tolls - which is no longer mitigated by cheaper gas) just to be able to experience the LY Dreamliner (in economy!)

#IsraeliMentality
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 05:32:23 PM
just to be able to experience the LY Dreamliner
#IsraeliMentality
Interesting that Boeing invested hundreds of billions of dollars just to attract some Israelis...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 05:37:59 PM
It's an article about the JFK market. It noted the EWR changes as well. The end.

The facts are actually the same. But it's all about how you present it to the readers.
#BashElAl
The BBC articles also have all the details in the article. It's the headline that makes the difference. Period.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 28, 2018, 05:44:56 PM

Interesting that Boeing invested hundreds of billions of dollars just to attract some Israelis...
Boeing invests money to attract its customers which are the airlines, that in turn are trying to maximize their profits on each route (except for special routes that have other reasons, such as a chairman’s route).

The airlines in turn, market to the flying public with their hard and soft product.

Look at one of the comments on DDF about how people get so excited about a new aircraft and gadgets, that they don’t even realize that they have less space.

How much better is the LY 789 experience in cattle class vs the same on their 744?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 06:31:21 PM
Boeing invests money to attract its customers which are the airlines, that in turn are trying to maximize their profits on each route (except for special routes that have other reasons, such as a chairman’s route).

The airlines in turn, market to the flying public with their hard and soft product.

Look at one of the comments on DDF about how people get so excited about a new aircraft and gadgets, that they don’t even realize that they have less space.

How much better is the LY 789 experience in cattle class vs the same on their 744?
An improved IFE system with a wider screen and arriving to your destination without a huge headache is nothing to you? I'd probably choose a better flight experience with fresher lighting, less dryness, etc. over an inch of extra seat width. But everyone can do what works for them. I just like the way you named it an "Israeli mentality" על טעם וריח...
I also find it interesting, that El AL gets so much negative coverage on their dreamliner economy seats, when it has nothing to do with them and all to do with manufacturer Boeing. It's the same narrow on all airlines that fly the 787. I've yet to see an airline who configured the plane 2-3-2 in economy...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 28, 2018, 06:48:03 PM

An improved IFE system with a wider screen and arriving to your destination without a huge headache is nothing to you? I'd probably choose a better flight experience with fresher lighting, less dryness, etc. over an inch of extra seat width. But everyone can do what works for them. I just like the way you named it an "Israeli mentality" על טעם וריח...
I also find it interesting, that El AL gets so much negative coverage on their dreamliner economy seats, when it has nothing to do with them and all to do with manufacturer Boeing. It's the same narrow on all airlines that fly the 787. I've yet to see an airline who configured the plane 2-3-2 in economy...
The Israeli mentality picks the 787 flight for reasons other than those you mentioned. They pick it because it’s the new toy. It’s the same mentality that puts the Dreamliner in LY’s Hebrew ads, just stating that it’s the latest and greatest, without the actual details you mentioned. It’s the same mentality that gets away with terrible service (in Y) and a non competitive mileage program.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 06:48:17 PM
The BBC articles also have all the details in the article. It's the headline that makes the difference. Period.
Nothing wrong with the headline. It's a big reduction on their flagship route.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 07:02:19 PM
The Israeli mentality picks the 787 flight for reasons other than those you mentioned. They pick it because it’s the new toy. It’s the same mentality that puts the Dreamliner in LY’s Hebrew ads, just stating that it’s the latest and greatest, without the actual details you mentioned. It’s the same mentality that gets away with terrible service (in Y) and a non competitive mileage program.
Nothing wrong with disliking an airline, but the reasons you give are sometimes pretty ridiculous. What's Israeli mentality about El Al making a big splash about their new aircraft? Did you ever visit the homepage of Singapore, Delta, Air Canada, etc. From what I see, all airlines proudly show off their new aircraft in ads and on their homepage.
Bottom line, I think the fact that you don't miss an opportunity to disparage El Al, has more to do with your own attitude than El Al's attitude...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 28, 2018, 07:03:11 PM
An improved IFE system with a wider screen and arriving to your destination without a huge headache is nothing to you? I'd probably choose a better flight experience with fresher lighting, less dryness, etc. over an inch of extra seat width. But everyone can do what works for them. I just like the way you named it an "Israeli mentality" על טעם וריח...
I also find it interesting, that El AL gets so much negative coverage on their dreamliner economy seats, when it has nothing to do with them and all to do with manufacturer Boeing. It's the same narrow on all airlines that fly the 787. I've yet to see an airline who configured the plane 2-3-2 in economy...
Boeing first showcased the plane 2-4-2, and only the Japanese (the first to operate the 787) are configured so.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on January 28, 2018, 07:07:22 PM

Nothing wrong with disliking an airline, but the reasons you give are sometimes pretty rediculous. What's Israeli mentality about El Al making a big splash about their new aircraft? Did you ever visit the homepage of Singapore, Delta, Air Canada, etc. From what I see, all airlines proudly show off their new aircraft in ads and on their homepage.
Bottom line, I think the fact that you don't miss an opportunity to disparage El Al, has more to do with your own attitude than El Al's attitude...
What you totally missed in my #IsraeliMentality comment, that it wasn’t about the airline but about the person who went out of his way to fly the LY Dreamliner, and not for the advantages you mentioned. Just take my word for this fact ביודעי ומכירי קאמינא.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 28, 2018, 07:19:44 PM
What you totally missed in my #IsraeliMentality comment, that it wasn’t about the airline but about the person who went out of his way to fly the LY Dreamliner, and not for the advantages you mentioned. Just take my word for this fact ביודעי ומכירי קאמינא.
People do that all the time for a new acft, I once booked someone with a double stop so he can do the A380 (LH was flying it temporary to NY then as they pulled it from Japan after the earthquake, they didn't start regular NY service then)

Airbus created a website people can search and book A380 flights, people have an interest in these regardless of airline
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 07:25:43 PM
What you totally missed in my #IsraeliMentality comment, that it wasn’t about the airline but about the person who went out of his way to fly the LY Dreamliner, and not for the advantages you mentioned. Just take my word for this fact ביודעי ומכירי קאמינא.
I didn't miss anything. I live IL, and I know all about Israeli mentality and I grew up in the US (heart of Brooklyn) and I know all about US (especially NY) mentality too. Bottom line stays the same. It's all in the attitude.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 07:28:05 PM
LY 1 to switch to the Dreamliner Oct 28 (beginning of winter season). LY will then operate all NYC flights with a 789 with 2 daily flights to JFK and 2 daily flights to EWR, compared to 3 flights total this winter.
Btw, @Dan don't I get a HT for this post?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 08:11:38 PM
2 strange things I just noticed.
1) LY 27 on Oct 26 Departs TLV on a 772 and returns from EWR MS as a 789
2) LY 7 Departs TLV to JFK on Oct 26, and when does it return exactly...?
Can anyone solve these mysteries?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: aygart on January 28, 2018, 08:39:28 PM
2 strange things I just noticed.
1) LY 27 on Oct 26 Departs TLV on a 772 and returns from EWR MS as a 789
2) LY 7 Departs TLV to JFK on Oct 26, and when does it return exactly...?
Can anyone solve these mysteries?
If they are retiring the plane them out goes from there to the graveyard.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 08:45:22 PM
If they are retiring the plane them out goes from there to the graveyard.
I can't imagine they're retiring a 777. Unless they're taking it to retrofit.
But then how do they get the 789 from Newark MS? Is that the extra flight they have to JFK on Fri? Think they will then fly the plane from JFK to EWR? Sounds extremely unlikely to me... Something doesn't make sense here.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 09:05:22 PM
Who owns the 772?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 09:19:09 PM
Who owns the 772?
I believe El Al. Do you know otherwise (that it's leased?)?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on January 28, 2018, 09:20:08 PM
I believe El Al. Do you know otherwise (that it's leased?)?
No clue, that's why I asked.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 09:24:17 PM
No clue, that's why I asked.
Just curious, would this help solve the mystery?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2018, 10:02:50 PM
Did any of the other agents realize how premium economy is going out with empty loads lately each and every day? Just take a look this. It's all 9...  Looks like what I said came true. Elal saw people go for it, so they decided let's hike the price. Q class costed almost as much as J class  :o

The result are in. Very empty loads.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 28, 2018, 10:12:05 PM
Did any of the other agents realize how premium economy is going out with empty loads lately each and every day? Just take a look this. It's all 9...  Looks like what I said came true. Elal saw people go for it, so they decided let's hike the price. Q class costed almost as much as J class  :o

The result are in. Very empty loads.
Tonight's flight to EWR went out very full. Earlier today it was W0, and a few hours before departure, I saw W3 Q3
It's gonna have to come down. It's just a matter of time. Sometime between now and next winter (when PE capacity will be 4x the amount it is now)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2018, 10:33:23 PM
I checked LY28.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on January 28, 2018, 10:50:08 PM
P class needs a refuha. It's full award+upgrades+revenue. Upgrades to PE costs more then just P revenue
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on January 28, 2018, 11:57:37 PM
P class needs a refuha. It's full award+upgrades+revenue. Upgrades to PE costs more then just P revenue
And so is A now..  After all its LY  :)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on January 31, 2018, 08:08:22 AM
I see that you gain a 2nd suitcase when you do it as W
Not anymore :(
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: myi on January 31, 2018, 10:44:15 AM
This is elals special there running for the new route..

https://www.elal.com/en/USA/Deals/Pages/SFO-New-0118.aspx?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on February 18, 2018, 11:00:31 AM

Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on February 18, 2018, 05:30:45 PM

PE is being marketed as E+ for $200 each way like on the flights to LON.
It's probably the trial for the new second aircraft that will start flying to EWR on Mar 25, because I don't see any of these flights scheduled past Mar 25
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on February 23, 2018, 11:36:23 AM
Why is the front row in Econ blocked?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on February 24, 2018, 01:08:32 PM
On the Dreamliner specifically or in general?
Row 21 is always blocked for Gold member or higher (will open when you add a FF number) or is bookable for M class and up
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on February 24, 2018, 08:01:47 PM
On the Dreamliner specifically or in general?
Row 21 is always blocked for Gold member or higher (will open when you add a FF number) or is bookable for M class and up

M opened up ABC but not the other 6

I requested seat control to open
RM ATT AGT/SDM CAN NOT ASSIGN 21HJK ON FLIGHTS//23FEB
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on February 24, 2018, 08:05:35 PM
M opened up ABC but not the other 6

I requested seat control to open
RM ATT AGT/SDM CAN NOT ASSIGN 21HJK ON FLIGHTS//23FEB
It's קודש קדשים by them. Never had luck they should open unless you are GL or PL
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on February 25, 2018, 05:01:39 AM
What's the best seat in J for a couple, 2 year old and infant? (Flight empty so can select any seat)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shaulyaakov on February 25, 2018, 08:03:55 AM
What's the best seat in J for a couple, 2 year old and infant? (Flight empty so can select any seat)
How many seats? 2, 3, or 4?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on February 25, 2018, 08:30:43 AM
How many seats? 2, 3, or 4?
If he has a 2 yr old, then it's at least 3
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on February 25, 2018, 08:51:37 AM
If he has a 2 yr old, then it's at least 3
Correct 3+ infant
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on February 25, 2018, 09:23:46 AM
Correct 3+ infant
I would take any of the honeymoon seats, like 9 D and G, plus one of the side seats which face towards the aisle, so 9 K for example
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on February 25, 2018, 09:50:29 AM
Just a thought:
Anyone remember that when they placed the orders for the 787s, El Al promised that it won't cost their customers any more money because they would be saving on fuel? It's just interesting that the past 2 winter, flights to NYC never went over the $900 mark (for U class), and this year they never went below $934 besides during a few sales they had... (the average for U this winter is about $100 more than it was 2 years ago IINM)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: VLK on March 05, 2018, 01:05:32 PM
Was looking at flights for the TLV-HKG route in August and I noticed that elal switching out their 787 to a 777 for that route in July and August. Anyone aware of this? Why would that be?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shimino1 on March 05, 2018, 01:29:14 PM
More capacity on the 777.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on March 05, 2018, 01:42:00 PM
LY switched flight 26 to JFK for the week of March 25. Wondering why
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on March 05, 2018, 08:48:35 PM
LY switched flight 26 to JFK for the week of March 25. Wondering why
Maybe slot issues?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on March 07, 2018, 07:42:18 AM
LY switched flight 26 to JFK for the week of March 25. Wondering why

Maybe slot issues?

It's actually from the beginning of scheduling (of the second 787 on this route) through Apr 11 that this flight was moved to JFK and renamed as 21/22. I would assume that it's either slot issues or government approval issues.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on March 07, 2018, 11:03:13 AM
It's actually from the beginning of scheduling (of the second 787 on this route) through Apr 11
Was extended today, must be slot/government issues as you said
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Coinguy on April 11, 2018, 08:58:23 PM
Anyone know what’s going on with tonight ewr-tlv flight? I had someone booked on the 9pm, which got cancelled and moved to jfk as LY22, now I see that it’s scheduled for 11:10 and estimated for 9PM????

Furthermore on the reservation it says 1:35am flight 1022?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on April 11, 2018, 09:47:52 PM
Anyone know what’s going on with tonight ewr-tlv flight? I had someone booked on the 9pm, which got cancelled and moved to jfk as LY22, now I see that it’s scheduled for 11:10 and estimated for 9PM????

Furthermore on the reservation it says 1:35am flight 1022?
It was delayed to 11:10 pm a few days ago and today they changed again the schedule with a new flight number.  It's scheduled for 1:35A
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: iwlw2 on April 22, 2018, 04:40:25 PM
So despite wanting to go to United (partly due to the reports people here gave on the Elal 787) I'll be flying ewr-tlv on Elal 787 in Y on June 4. Any tips on how to make what by all accounts is almost torture somewhat more manageable? (Other than praying for a lot of empty seats on the plane.....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Emkay on April 22, 2018, 04:47:54 PM
So despite wanting to go to United (partly due to the reports people here gave on the Elal 787) I'll be flying ewr-tlv on Elal 787 in Y on June 4. Any tips on how to make what by all accounts is almost torture somewhat more manageable? (Other than praying for a lot of empty seats on the plane.....
Yes, don't feel entitled and remove your preconceived notions.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on April 22, 2018, 06:26:54 PM
Yes, don't feel entitled and remove your preconceived notions.
+1

This past winter during the week of Yarchei Kallah, my wife overheard the following chat between 2 American women in Hadar Geula in Yerushalayim.
(Y passengers)
Woman A: So how is your trip coming along? With which airline did you come here?
Woman B: United. Past summer we flew El Al and it was so bad, we decided to try United this time.
Woman A: That's interesting. Last time, we flew United and it was so bad, we decided to try El Al this time.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Don't expect to sit 12 hours in a stiff chair (on any airline) and arrive at your destination all refreshed and rested. It's part of flying economy.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: iwlw2 on April 23, 2018, 08:43:30 AM
+1

This past winter during the week of Yarchei Kallah, my wife overheard the following chat between 2 American women in Hadar Geula in Yerushalayim.
(Y passengers)
Woman A: So how is your trip coming along? With which airline did you come here?
Woman B: United. Past summer we flew El Al and it was so bad, we decided to try United this time.
Woman A: That's interesting. Last time, we flew United and it was so bad, we decided to try El Al this time.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Don't expect to sit 12 hours in a stiff chair (on any airline) and arrive at your destination all refreshed and rested. It's part of flying economy.
Yes, don't feel entitled and remove your preconceived notions.

Condescencion aside, (and thank you for that), any actually helpful tips?
I've had the "pleasure" of flying economy to EY on both United and Elal, I'm quite aware that neither is exactly comfortable. Never having gone on the 787 yet though, I still found it helpful to look in these forums and get informed by the consensus of others experience that United is a little less bad. All I was asking is if theres anything else that could help with that, specific seats, etc.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 04:37:23 PM
Any premium economy TRs?
Worth trying out for the daytime TLV-EWR flight?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 02, 2018, 04:42:24 PM
Any premium economy TRs?
Worth trying out for the daytime TLV-EWR flight?
Plenty. Best seats are row 17. Meal service is a significant upgrade from economy (even the skml). Anything else?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 04:56:38 PM
Plenty. Best seats are row 17. Meal service is a significant upgrade from economy (even the skml). Anything else?
Link to TRs?
Am I crazy to try it out over flying UA J both ways?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on May 02, 2018, 05:02:29 PM
Link to TRs?
Am I crazy to try it out over flying UA J both ways?
Why would you fly premium economy for 12 hours if you could fly J?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 05:08:34 PM
Why would you fly premium economy for 12 hours if you could fly J?
Lol, tired of hearing people kvetch that I've never flown LY.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on May 02, 2018, 05:19:41 PM
Lol, tired of hearing people kvetch that I've never flown LY.
I wouldn't do that :)
Though I'm pretty sure that if you end up flying LY they will upgrade you to J, especially on the day flight as it doesn't have that many business travelers.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 05:21:09 PM
I wouldn't do that :)
Though I'm pretty sure that if you end up flying LY they will upgrade you to J, especially on the day flight as it doesn't have that many business travelers.
Lol, they have no clue who I am.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Abey on May 02, 2018, 05:22:17 PM
Lol, tired of hearing people kvetch that I've never flown LY.
they kvetch about y not premium economy maybe consider flying like the plebeians ?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 05:23:01 PM
they kvetch about y not premium economy maybe consider flying like the plebeians ?
Erm, reread my post.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on May 02, 2018, 05:23:42 PM
Lol, they have no clue who I am.
That's easy to fix
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Abey on May 02, 2018, 05:25:18 PM
Erm, reread my post.
I meant you should  try economy
would be an interesting tr
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
That's easy to fix
Then while you're at it, have them give me 5 J seats. Or at least open up X space. :D
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 05:26:11 PM
I meant you should  try economy
would be an interesting tr
My masochism will only reach the level of PE.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on May 02, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
Then while you're at it, have them give me 5 J seats. Or at least open up X space. :D
Don't push it :)
I can just make sure that the right marketing people are aware that you'll be on that flight
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yitrap on May 02, 2018, 05:28:40 PM


Am I crazy to try it out over flying UA J both ways?

Yes
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 02, 2018, 06:34:18 PM
Link to TRs?
Am I crazy to try it out over flying UA J both ways?
PE definitely doesn't compare to UA J, but is it a comfortable experience? Yes (especially if you don't need the lie-flat bed as it's a day flight) Maybe you can speak to the head of Matmid program again and ask if he would open X (or A on the 777) for you this time. Then you can report on King David too...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 06:35:54 PM
PE definitely doesn't compare to UA J, but is it a comfortable experience? Yes (especially if you don't need the lie-flat bed as it's a day flight) Maybe you can speak to the head of Matmid program again and ask if he would open X (or A on the 777) for you this time. Then you can report on King David too...
My contact is no longer with LY.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 02, 2018, 06:41:49 PM
BTW, no one will believe me, but I spoke to a DDFer who flew Emirates F to NY (via ATH) a couple of months ago, and did the return on LY F. He said despite having a private suite on Emirates, he had a WAY better experience on LY. He said  he would easily choose LY F over Emirates F next time. And he did SKML!
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on May 02, 2018, 06:44:36 PM
BTW, no one will believe me, but I spoke to a DDFer who flew Emirates F to NY (via ATH) a couple of months ago, and did the return on LY F. He said despite having a private suite on Emirates, he had a WAY better experience on LY. He said  he would easily choose LY F over Emirates F next time. And he did SKML!
I flew LY F plenty of times, and while I never flew Emirates I find it hard to believe for so many reasons :-)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 02, 2018, 06:45:09 PM
BTW, no one will believe me, but I spoke to a DDFer who flew Emirates F to NY (via ATH) a couple of months ago, and did the return on LY F. He said despite having a private suite on Emirates, he had a WAY better experience on LY. He said  he would easily choose LY F over Emirates F next time. And he did SKML!
EY/EK don't have amazing service like JL/NH/SQ. If it wasn't for the A380 shower nobody would even notice them.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on May 02, 2018, 07:16:32 PM
EY/EK don't have amazing service like JL/NH/SQ. If it wasn't for the A380 shower nobody would even notice them.
and ATH uses the 777
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yanks10952 on May 03, 2018, 12:14:25 PM
got this email from ELAl
Additional daily flight from New York (Newark) with our new Dreamliner:

New York (EWR) (LY026)-> Tel Aviv
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 9:00 pm
Arrival: 2:25 am next day

Tel Aviv-> New York (EWR) (LY025)
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 1:50 pm
Arrival: 6:35 am


Two questions not sure its been asked
1- who would want to arrive at an airport at 2.25am
2- if it leaves at 1.50 pm how does it arrive at 6.35am?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 03, 2018, 12:15:58 PM
got this email from ELAl
Additional daily flight from New York (Newark) with our new Dreamliner:

New York (EWR) (LY026)-> Tel Aviv
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 9:00 pm
Arrival: 2:25 am next day

Tel Aviv-> New York (EWR) (LY025)
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 1:50 pm
Arrival: 6:35 am


Two questions not sure its been asked
1- who would want to arrive at an airport at 2.25am
2- if it leaves at 1.50 pm how does it arrive at 6.35am?
They're both supposed to be pm.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Tzfas on May 03, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
They're both supposed to be pm.
Its not so new, I actually came back after Pesach with the whole family on   the 1:50 pm flight, pretty good flight especially with the mood lighting it puts everyone in some kind of mode and people were not so jumpy as on a standard day flight.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on May 03, 2018, 12:53:25 PM
got this email from ELAl
Additional daily flight from New York (Newark) with our new Dreamliner:

New York (EWR) (LY026)-> Tel Aviv
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 9:00 pm
Arrival: 2:25 am next day

Tel Aviv-> New York (EWR) (LY025)
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 1:50 pm
Arrival: 6:35 am


Two questions not sure its been asked
1- who would want to arrive at an airport at 2.25am
2- if it leaves at 1.50 pm how does it arrive at 6.35am?
I think you got your times wrong:
LY26 lands at 2:25pm, not am
LY25 lands at 6:35pm, not am
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on May 03, 2018, 12:57:18 PM
They're both supposed to be pm.
I think you got your times wrong:
LY26 lands at 2:25pm, not am
LY25 lands at 6:35pm, not am
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on May 03, 2018, 01:06:33 PM
@Dan so did you book LY premium?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on May 03, 2018, 01:14:12 PM
@Dan so did you book LY premium?
Even if he booked it doesnt mean he will fly.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 03, 2018, 01:39:48 PM
Even if he booked it doesnt mean he will fly.
It's not like UA, where he can just cancel as many times as he wants, free of charge...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on May 03, 2018, 01:46:12 PM
It's not like UA, where he can just cancel as many times as he wants, free of charge...
its a small cancellation fee
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elihak7 on May 03, 2018, 01:46:31 PM
They're both supposed to be pm.
Just the 2:25 is pm but when you leave 1:50 you arrive 6:35 am, sorry do your calculations again..
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: iwlw2 on May 03, 2018, 01:48:30 PM
Just the 2:25 is pm but when you leave 1:50 you arrive 6:35 am, sorry do your calculations again..
No, its from TLV-EWR so it leaves at 1:50 PM and arrives 6:35 PM local time
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: iwlw2 on May 03, 2018, 01:49:46 PM
@Dan so did you book LY premium?
Dan I'll be on the 1:30 out of Newark on 6/4, let me know if you go on that one I'd love to say hello.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on May 03, 2018, 01:55:57 PM
Dan I'll be on the 1:30 out of Newark on 6/4, let me know if you go on that one I'd love to say hello.

Hes prob going to avoid that flight now :P
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yitrap on May 03, 2018, 03:06:26 PM
got this email from ELAl
Additional daily flight from New York (Newark) with our new Dreamliner:

New York (EWR) (LY026)-> Tel Aviv
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 9:00 pm
Arrival: 2:25 am next day

Tel Aviv-> New York (EWR) (LY025)
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 1:50 pm
Arrival: 6:35 am


Two questions not sure its been asked
1- who would want to arrive at an airport at 2.25am
2- if it leaves at 1.50 pm how does it arrive at 6.35am?
A lot of the last European flights arrive into TLV around then.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on May 03, 2018, 03:42:34 PM
got this email from ELAl
Additional daily flight from New York (Newark) with our new Dreamliner:

New York (EWR) (LY026)-> Tel Aviv
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 9:00 pm
Arrival: 2:25 am next day

Tel Aviv-> New York (EWR) (LY025)
Sunday-Thursday
Departure: 1:50 pm
Arrival: 6:35 am


Two questions not sure its been asked
1- who would want to arrive at an airport at 2.25am
2- if it leaves at 1.50 pm how does it arrive at 6.35am?
ROFL
https://www.facebook.com/groups/dansdeals/permalink/10156081367021041/?comment_id=10156081367791041&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R2%22%7D
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 06, 2018, 09:06:29 AM
Some very interesting schedule changes I'm noticing for next winter.
1) Flight 001 to JFK doesn't switch over to the 789 until Mar 31st! Will be flown by the 772 (maybe to satisfy the few F costumers?)
2) Second daily flight to Newark next winter is cut 3 times weekly (ouch!) and will be operated by a 772. Even stranger is that those 3 additional weekly flights will not be departing TLV in the afternoon, but at 12:15am. Yes, there will be a 772 at 12:15am to EWR, a 772 at 12:30am to JFK, and a 789 at 1:00am to EWR! The additional return flight from Newark will stay scheduled for 9pm, though.
3) As of Jan 6, both daily flights to LHR will be operated by the 789. And as of Feb 1, the PE on the route will officially start being marketed as PE (though for some reason, the PE fare classes are still all showing at 0 availability)

Anyone notice any other changes?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 06, 2018, 09:48:42 AM
Doing the calculations, it's actually not such a capacity cut to the NYC area in general (though the timing from TLV-EWR is extremely awkward). Original schedule was 22 weekly 789 flights to the NYC area, and now it's 11 789's and 9 772's.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 13, 2018, 05:57:28 AM
@DAN, in case you're still hoping for LY X class on the return, a small tip is that LY often has better availability on Motzei Shabbos or Monday....
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on May 13, 2018, 07:17:45 AM
@Dan, in case you're still hoping for LY X class on the return, a small tip is that LY often has better availability on Motzei Shabbos or Monday....

Is ELAL known to release more availability as the dates get closer?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 13, 2018, 08:16:17 AM
Is ELAL known to release more availability as the dates get closer?
Not necessarily. Just like other airlines, it's pretty much based on space. What I'm saying about MS and Monday is for all available, not just award.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on May 13, 2018, 12:06:55 PM
@Dan, in case you're still hoping for LY X class on the return, a small tip is that LY often has better availability on Motzei Shabbos or Monday....

That is an AYLOR issue (definitely during the summer).
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 13, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
That is an AYLOR issue (definitely during the summer).
Exactly why?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Mik77 on May 22, 2018, 06:26:01 PM
has anyone flown elal 787 premium economy?  thoughts?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 23, 2018, 08:23:29 AM
MIA getting 787-9 Dreamliner service starting Oct 29 (probably has to do with LY delaying the SFO flight)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 23, 2018, 08:27:49 AM
787-9 service to LAX to begin Oct 28
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: US on May 27, 2018, 11:24:26 AM
When are they officially bringing the 787-9 to JFK?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 27, 2018, 11:52:06 AM
When are they officially bringing the 787-9 to JFK?
July 1st
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: US on May 27, 2018, 07:38:02 PM
July 1st
Thanks.
i guess not completely, i see 747 at 1:00 flight from JFK.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on May 27, 2018, 07:41:34 PM
Thanks.
i guess not completely, i see 747 at 1:00 flight from JFK.

I think those continue for a while
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 28, 2018, 08:06:21 AM
So far, the TLV - NYC route will not be all Dreamliners until at least April 1st 2019. Most of the winter, the 1am flight to JFK is operated by a 777
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 28, 2018, 02:36:23 PM
@Dan
No HT for the post?
p.s. This post needs quite a few edits. I'll try to make a list shortly
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on May 28, 2018, 03:42:46 PM
Some הערות on the DDMS post:
Quote
El Al has been flying 2 daily 787 flights between Newark and Tel Aviv since March 25. This will decrease to 1 daily flight on October 28. That may be added back next year, but so far El Al is selling seats for just one daily flight through the end of scheduling next April.
As mentioned above, for the winter they officially switched the second EWR flight to 3 times weekly (some weeks have more) on a 772. I just noticed that the blocked availability for the second daily flight and is currently marked in the GDS as "subject to government approval".

Quote
And sure enough, El Al has cancelled their plans to start the route in November.
As I've said earlier, UA is back on the 788 by the time November comes around. So perhaps it's not the 77W that blew them away (probably just lack of sales)

Quote
They say that they will start it in May, but they are not currently selling any seats on the route.
-1
They are selling seats starting May 13

Quote
El Al plans to maintain the same old 767s on their Boston and Toronto routes for the foreseeable future.
Most likely waiting for the 787-8 deliveries to replace them (especially YYZ where AC puts them to shame)

Quote
how much can El Al cut and still charge a major premium above the low cost carriers flying to Europe?
Under the new "Fly Your Way" system with branded fares, they are changing a lot to compete with the LCC, but it's nearly impossible for a legacy carrier to fully compete with the "ULCC". One example is the allowance of one-way flights to Europe. And btw, many European airlines have completely cut meals on the TLV routes like LO or SN to name a couple. Last year I flew AB JFK-TLV and on the 5 hr flight from TXL to TLV, I needed to pay 3 EUR for a drink of water.

Quote
Aside from massive labor costs, one of El Al’s major problem is that they have failed to cultivate meaningful airline partnerships. That means that while United can feed passengers to their Newark and San Francisco flights from across their network, El Al is nearly entirely reliant on nonstop traffic.
#fakenews
El Al partners (in North America) with AS/VX, AA, B6, WS, PD (and more) which gets them pretty much anywhere across America.

Quote
El Al’s website is one of the worst in the industry
-1
I spend much more time on their site then you. It's been upgraded a lot in recent months/years.

Quote
El Al still doesn’t have WiFi on their longhaul planes…
+1000
A real shame. But it's coming shortly. If only more airlines would make this a priority. I just flew AC to TLV and they didn't either have wifi installed on the long-haul flight (787)

From the comments: https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-new-787-routes-route-launch-cancellation-end-747-first-class-dates-sandwiches-instead-meals-fix-ails/#comment-1356852
Quote
Regardless, where is a US credit card?
How many non-US carriers do you know that have a US credit card?!?

But you also should mention the shameful price increases that have been nonstop since they launched the Dreamliner! The base fares on all cabins to the US have skyrocketed in the past few months especially PE. They also just recently increased the changes/refunds fees rates for the first time in many years.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on May 28, 2018, 03:51:19 PM
Im really hoping ELAL begins allowing one-way travel. They were testing it a few months ago, but that seemed to have ended
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: VLK on June 04, 2018, 04:10:26 PM
Are there bassinets in the PE section? Anyone have actual experience with this?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on June 05, 2018, 07:04:23 AM
Are there bassinets in the PE section? Anyone have actual experience with this?
Don't have personal experience. But there are bassinets in PE.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hershelsdeals on June 05, 2018, 07:15:03 AM
Are there bassinets in the PE section? Anyone have actual experience with this?
Yes. I used a bassinet in PE last week
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elihak7 on June 05, 2018, 02:25:52 PM
what are the dreamliners routes to and from tlv-ewr?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on June 05, 2018, 03:04:21 PM
what are the dreamliners routes to and from tlv-ewr?
Want to be a little clearer?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elihak7 on June 06, 2018, 07:28:14 AM
Want to be a little clearer?
Does elal have flights every day of the week with their dreamliner? if yes whats time (since they fly more then one flight a day)? clear enough? in short, i wanna book a flight and wanna know if its with their dreamliner.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on June 06, 2018, 07:31:09 AM
Does elal have flights every day of the week with their dreamliner? if yes whats time (since they fly more then one flight a day)? clear enough? in short, i wanna book a flight and wanna know if its with their dreamliner.

EWR is all dreamliner.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: plainbachur on June 06, 2018, 07:33:43 AM
EWR is all dreamliner.
not true
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on June 06, 2018, 07:48:51 AM
Does elal have flights every day of the week with their dreamliner? if yes whats time (since they fly more then one flight a day)? clear enough? in short, i wanna book a flight and wanna know if its with their dreamliner.
EWR is all dreamliner.
not true
Out of Newark is all Dreamliner besides for Motzei Shabbos. (For this season, at least. For a later season, please specify)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on June 06, 2018, 07:56:05 AM
Btw, as of now, LY will continue flying the 747 on LY1 to JFK through Mar 31 (not the 777 as previously scheduled)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: VLK on June 06, 2018, 08:50:46 AM
Yes. I used a bassinet in PE last week
Thanx!
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on June 06, 2018, 11:27:39 AM
Out of Newark is all Dreamliner besides for Motzei Shabbos. (For this season, at least. For a later season, please specify)

I stand corrected :)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elihak7 on June 10, 2018, 01:49:04 PM
I stand corrected :)
How about for september? and from israel to nyc?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on June 10, 2018, 02:01:00 PM
Kosher Entertainment on El Al's Dreamliner (kol haloshon)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180610/a5fdd711331a30921a14c461b5e9af1d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180610/9f4eb811a966811b36dfb644ed0d2361.jpg)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on June 11, 2018, 10:50:48 AM
Sources in ELAL confirm to me that there are talks to leave the 747 fly to JFK for a while.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shauly on June 11, 2018, 11:01:36 AM
Sources in ELAL confirm to me that there are talks to leave the 747 fly to JFK for a while.

Booked myself TLV - JFK on LY 1 in late March, I was sure they'd swap it by then.  :-[
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on June 20, 2018, 12:46:49 PM
Not sure if this was posted already, but just got an email from elal that starting October 28 they will be flying the 787 from LA, & October 29 from Miami.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Dan on June 20, 2018, 12:47:29 PM
Not sure if this was posted already, but just got an email from elal that starting October 28 they will be flying the 787 from LA, & October 29 from Miami.
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-new-787-routes-route-launch-cancellation-end-747-first-class-dates-sandwiches-instead-meals-fix-ails/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Hjay on June 20, 2018, 12:49:14 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-new-787-routes-route-launch-cancellation-end-747-first-class-dates-sandwiches-instead-meals-fix-ails/

 :-[
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on July 10, 2018, 05:32:01 AM
A colleague of mine is on board LY26 and he said there is free WiFi (during the experimentation period).

As far as he could tell it only worked decently over Europe but experimental over the Atlantic.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elihak7 on July 10, 2018, 06:51:56 AM
I have a flight from tlv-ewr on sep 5 is it with their dreamliner? how can i check?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on July 10, 2018, 07:08:30 AM
I have a flight from tlv-ewr on sep 5 is it with their dreamliner? how can i check?

Yes it is. Can see on any booking site.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: elihak7 on July 10, 2018, 02:30:15 PM
Yes it is. Can see on any booking site.
Thanks. where is it supposed to say? what should i look for?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on July 10, 2018, 02:49:41 PM
Thanks. where is it supposed to say? what should i look for?
The plane is called 787
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Moshe26 on July 16, 2018, 06:05:00 PM
does 787 Dreamliner only fly from tlv to ewr or does it also go to jfk?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on July 16, 2018, 06:09:56 PM
does 787 Dreamliner only fly from tlv to ewr or does it also go to jfk?
both
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on July 22, 2018, 02:22:37 AM
ElAl next 787 will be retro livery.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on July 22, 2018, 05:51:12 AM
ElAl next 787 will be retro livery.
Source?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on July 22, 2018, 07:01:54 AM
What seats in PE have a bassinet?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on July 22, 2018, 07:20:51 AM
What seats in PE have a bassinet?
17 D and G
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on July 22, 2018, 10:37:02 AM
Source?

Uh, did you see the picture?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on July 22, 2018, 11:15:05 AM
ElAl next 787 will be retro livery.
Nice catch, saw it mentioned a while back that it's coming

ETA: read the description https://www.instagram.com/p/BkfQfQpAa53/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: shapsam on July 22, 2018, 12:11:16 PM
ElAl next 787 will be retro livery.
Is anything different in the inside?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on July 22, 2018, 01:53:45 PM
Uh, did you see the picture?
At first I was trying to figure out how I know it's a new picture and not from the old one, until I noticed the ripple on the back of the engine.
But what's the point in this? It's so ugly IMHO.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on July 22, 2018, 02:27:32 PM
But what's the point in this? It's so ugly IMHO.

Celebrating 70th anniversary.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: gold on July 22, 2018, 02:57:55 PM
Is anything different in the inside?
old seats too!
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Ploni3 on July 25, 2018, 07:14:35 AM
Got this email from Elal:  "EL AL Canada is proud to present the 787 Dreamliner from Toronto." but link only takes you to a tour of the plane. Anyone hear of an official roll out date for LY YYZ dreamliner service?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on July 25, 2018, 07:44:21 AM
Under what scenario can seats be upgraded with the seats mentioned to be available on experflyer under "Business - Points Upgrades"?

Does it need to be a cash booking?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on July 25, 2018, 07:46:33 AM
Under what scenario can seats be upgraded with the seats mentioned to be available on experflyer under "Business - Points Upgrades"?

Does it need to be a cash booking?
yes and it needs to be an upgradeable ticket which is M class and higher
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on July 25, 2018, 07:49:01 AM
yes and it needs to be an upgradeable ticket which is M class and higher

So in other words, its useless...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on July 25, 2018, 07:52:34 AM
yes and it needs to be an upgradeable ticket which is M class and higher

They added 2 of those seats, should i not get my hopes up that they will add 2 seats to business award?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on July 25, 2018, 07:53:46 AM
They added 2 of those seats, should i not get my hopes up that they will add 2 seats to business award?
i wouldn't
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: zagguru on July 25, 2018, 07:54:53 AM
i wouldn't

ahhhh and they also added 3 to PE
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on July 25, 2018, 07:56:19 AM
ahhhh and they also added 3 to PE
all the times I checked on lots of dates PE was wide open
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on July 25, 2018, 09:17:35 AM
They added 2 of those seats, should i not get my hopes up that they will add 2 seats to business award?
Not unlikely that award will open. Upgrades and award space are pretty similar on LY
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mendyt on July 25, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
Not unlikely that award will open. Upgrades and award space are pretty similar on LY
-1
It's still possible that award will open, but they aren't similar at all
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on July 25, 2018, 09:33:06 AM
-1
It's still possible that award will open, but they aren't similar at all
this has been my experience as well in the past 2 months
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on July 25, 2018, 09:38:23 AM
Correct. There's definitely more R than X, but generally on flights that are relatively empty, they will both be available
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on July 25, 2018, 11:58:50 AM
Got this email from Elal:  "EL AL Canada is proud to present the 787 Dreamliner from Toronto." but link only takes you to a tour of the plane. Anyone hear of an official roll out date for LY YYZ dreamliner service?

Tel Aviv – Toronto eff 30JUN19 787-9 replaces 767-300ER, overall reduces from 4 to 3 weekly.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on July 25, 2018, 12:15:54 PM
Nice catch, saw it mentioned a while back that it's coming

ETA: read the description https://www.instagram.com/p/BkfQfQpAa53/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlpOSPhgo5w/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on July 28, 2018, 07:17:14 PM
https://passportnews.co.il/מטוס-הרטרו-של-אל-על/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on July 28, 2018, 07:37:09 PM
https://passportnews.co.il/מטוס-הרטרו-של-אל-על/
🤮
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on August 09, 2018, 11:29:05 AM
I just had a relative who flies LY J a lot and just took the dreamliner in J for the first time, say that he prefers the old cabin as the footwells are very narrow and make you feel claustrophobic on the new plane
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ilherman on August 17, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
Sources in ELAL confirm to me that there are talks to leave the 747 fly to JFK for a while.
And I see now that the 747 is operating until end of schedule. Is this new?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Yaalili on August 17, 2018, 07:05:59 PM
And I see now that the 747 is operating until end of schedule. Is this new?

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=30483.msg1955225#msg1955225
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mrprez27 on August 19, 2018, 12:55:49 AM
I just had a relative who flies LY J a lot and just took the dreamliner in J for the first time, say that he prefers the old cabin as the footwells are very narrow and make you feel claustrophobic on the new plane
seriously, the old J was not even lie-flat
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mikebg on August 19, 2018, 03:49:51 AM
seriously, the old J was not even lie-flat
That depends on how old. The more recent 777 and 744 seats have been lie flat for quite a while. They are not new seats, but a different configuration. It seems that the original seat design could allow them to be lie flat or angled. Initially they were angled, but they were adjusted to be lie flat a good few years ago.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: mochjas on August 19, 2018, 06:45:32 AM
That depends on how old. The more recent 777 and 744 seats have been lie flat for quite a while. They are not new seats, but a different configuration. It seems that the original seat design could allow them to be lie flat or angled. Initially they were angled, but they were adjusted to be lie flat a good few years ago.
that is correct. And he usually travels with his wife or son so he doesn't care for the direct aisle access
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on March 26, 2019, 04:57:49 PM
https://passportnews.co.il/אל-על-הדרימליינר-787-8-ייכנס-לשירות-בחודש-נ/

Interesting write up about LY 787-8, does say that will be 238 seats (only 20 Business)
First route YYZ with BOS,ORD,SFO to follow
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on March 26, 2019, 05:13:34 PM
https://passportnews.co.il/אל-על-הדרימליינר-787-8-ייכנס-לשירות-בחודש-נ/

Interesting write up about LY 787-8, does say that will be 238 seats (only 20 Business)
First route YYZ with BOS,ORD,SFO to follow

Per Routes Online https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/283529/el-al-outlines-787-8-network-from-nov-2019/

El Al Israel Airlines earlier this month filed planned operation with its new Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner aircraft, set to enter service in the 4th quarter of 2019. The configuration of the 787-8 is C20W35Y183.

Initially the airline filed Toronto and Paris CDG as first 2 destinations to receive 787-8 service, however this has been expanded in last week’s schedule update.

As of 24MAR19, planned 787-8 network includes the following.

Tel Aviv – Boston eff 15DEC19 3 weekly (until 29MAR19)
Tel Aviv – Chicago O’Hare eff 22MAR20 3 weekly (1 weekly from 29MAR20)
Tel Aviv – Mumbai eff 02APR20 1 weekly
Tel Aviv – Paris CDG eff 16DEC19 2 weekly (Additional frequency scheduled from 29MAR20)
Tel Aviv – San Francisco eff 30MAR20 3 weekly
Tel Aviv – Toronto eff 17NOV19 3 weekly (until 26MAR20)
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on March 26, 2019, 05:22:10 PM
Code: [Select]
DOLY031/17DEC/TLVYYZ                                                           
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO*              LY  31  266 TU 17DEC19                   
APT ARR   DY DEP   DY CLASS/MEAL          EQP  GRND  EFT   TTL                 
TLV          1100  TU CIDZJRXWQBP/BH      788        12:15                     
                      YSMKVLHNGOU/BH                                           
                      E/BH                                                     
YYZ 1615  TU                                               12:15               
                                                                               
COMMENTS-                                                                       
 1.TLV YYZ   - AIRCRAFT OWNER EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES                             
 2.TLV YYZ   - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3                                               
 3.TLV YYZ   - ARRIVES TERMINAL 3                                               
 4.TLV YYZ   -   1/ MOVIE                                                       
 5.TLV YYZ   -   4/ AUDIO PROGRAMMING                                           
 6.TLV YYZ   -   7/ DUTY FREE SALES                                             
 7.TLV YYZ   -   9/ NON-SMOKING                                                 
 8.TLV YYZ   - SECURED FLIGHT                                                   
 9.TLV YYZ   -  ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE                                   
10.TLV YYZ   - SSR DOCS RQRD ON FLIGHTS TO FROM VIA YYZ                         
11.TLV YYZ   -  CO2/PAX* 402.11 KG ECO, 804.21 KG PRE                           
 (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR                                   
                                                                               
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               788  C  20   W  35   Y 183                                       


Code: [Select]
CONFIGURATION-                                                                 
               788  C  20   W  35   Y 183                                       
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on March 26, 2019, 05:23:12 PM

The configuration of the 787-8 is C20W35Y183.
Proves how successful PE was on the 787-9! An added row (in comparison to the -9) for a smaller aircraft and a stingy 20 seats in J...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on March 26, 2019, 05:28:28 PM
How can they operate SFO with 20 business seats... beats me ua on 777 is 60 seats
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on March 26, 2019, 05:29:57 PM
Configuration:
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: chff on March 26, 2019, 05:38:23 PM
Configuration:

hint hint - now the non-TAs can know where the marshals sit...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on March 26, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
How can they operate SFO with 20 business seats... beats me ua on 777 is 60 seats

I guess 20 seats for a cabin makes for more personalized service than 60. Though it really depends on the FA/passenger ratio.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on March 26, 2019, 05:44:30 PM
I guess 20 seats for a cabin makes for more personalized service than 60. Though it really depends on the FA/passenger ratio.

My point was that LY is competing with UA on this route and they not even offering daily which UA does. UA fills those Business seats and thats were the profit is so how they are planning to make a profit with 20 Business seats seems weird...
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on March 26, 2019, 05:47:29 PM
hint hint - now the non-TAs can know where the marshals sit...
Lol
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on March 26, 2019, 06:03:18 PM
From DDMS: "El Al is slated to receive a total of 4 of the 787-8s and 17 of the larger 787-9s"
I believe the total order was for 16 aircraft between the 2 sizes, no?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: davidrotts63 on March 26, 2019, 06:05:55 PM
From DDMS: "El Al is slated to receive a total of 4 of the 787-8s and 17 of the larger 787-9s"
I believe the total order was for 16 aircraft between the 2 sizes, no?
Correct according to wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ExGingi on March 26, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
My point was that LY is competing with UA on this route and they not even offering daily which UA does. UA fills those Business seats and thats were the profit is so how they are planning to make a profit with 20 Business seats seems weird...
They're obviously not primarily targeting the business market for this route.

Maybe they see PE as where they will make profits.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Baglach on March 26, 2019, 06:49:58 PM
They're obviously not primarily targeting the business market for this route.

Maybe they see PE as where they will make profits.
Never gonna happen
Keep in mind they are launching in May with a 787-9 so will be 10 months with "regular" Dreamliner
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on June 23, 2019, 12:17:50 PM
https://thepointsguy-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/thepointsguy.co.uk/reviews/el-al-787-business-review/amp/
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on June 23, 2019, 12:36:11 PM
https://thepointsguy-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/thepointsguy.co.uk/reviews/el-al-787-business-review/amp/
Quote
...as a regular on the LHR-TLV route, this is one of the best options. I will aim to fly it again if I can find it for the right price — it’s a shame the Matmid programme is about as useful as a hummus teapot.
LOL
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: tavster on June 23, 2019, 01:20:45 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on August 17, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
Just noticed that El Al is bringing back Economy Plus to their 787-8. (in addition to Premium Economy)
Front 7 rows of economy (63 seats), not counting the exit rows of the back half. That's significantly more seats than the 747/777. But their also lowering the price to $110 (from $160), probably to balance the increase.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 01, 2019, 04:34:48 PM
First 787-8 (4X-ERA) was delivered this past Thursday night. First commercial flight departed to BKK last night and just returned to TLV about 3 hours ago.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: ah41187 on December 01, 2019, 05:43:57 PM
Just noticed that El Al is bringing back Economy Plus to their 787-8. (in addition to Premium Economy)
Front 7 rows of economy (63 seats), not counting the exit rows of the back half. That's significantly more seats than the 747/777. But their also lowering the price to $110 (from $160), probably to balance the increase.
What’s this difference between this and premium economy?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 01, 2019, 06:13:43 PM
What’s this difference between this and premium economy?
Economy plus is a standard economy seat with extra leg room. Premium Economy is a separate cabin, wider seats, more recline, more leg room, upgraded meal and service, and extra baggage allowance.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: Abebee on December 01, 2019, 06:14:25 PM
What’s this difference between this and premium economy?
Premium economy is a class of its own. Wider seats, less seats per row and business class meals.
Economy plus is just more legroom and recline.
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yeshivabucher on December 01, 2019, 06:42:35 PM
Does Elal 787 or United 777 has a better premium economy?
Title: Re: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread
Post by: yandmk on December 01, 2019, 06:46:11 PM
Does Elal 787 or United 777 has a better premium economy?
El Al 787