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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: zagguru on March 26, 2017, 06:59:11 PM

Title: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: zagguru on March 26, 2017, 06:59:11 PM
Americans who go to israel, what do you keep? 1 day or 2 days for holidays?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: David Smith on March 26, 2017, 07:01:48 PM
The halacha is that unless you're a resident of Eretz Yisrael that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: 12HRS on March 26, 2017, 07:04:13 PM
The halacha is that unless you're an Israeli resident that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.


I certainly kept one day. I even flew chol hamoed once and kept 2 days first days and 1 day second days.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: David Smith on March 26, 2017, 07:08:39 PM

I certainly kept one day. I even flew chol hamoed once and kept 2 days first days and 1 day second days.
Do you live in America or Israel?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: 12HRS on March 26, 2017, 07:10:21 PM
Do you live in America or Israel?

America. Just fyi sfardim have a different halacha if you are unmarried.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: coralsnake on March 26, 2017, 07:10:51 PM
The halacha is that unless you're a resident of Eretz Yisrael that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.

Thank you Rabbi. There are those who disagree with you.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: zagguru on March 26, 2017, 07:39:28 PM
America. Just fyi sfardim have a different halacha if you are unmarried.

what is it for sephardim who are married?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: BP16 on March 26, 2017, 07:39:57 PM
The halacha is that unless you're a resident of Eretz Yisrael that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.
Yea why just make up stuff? There are so many different menugim.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: BP16 on March 26, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
what is it for sephardim who are married?
Depnds to how many wife's
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: keemster26 on March 26, 2017, 07:45:52 PM
I don't get it. Why can't you just ask your LOR?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: koplonko on March 26, 2017, 08:17:00 PM
I don't get it. Why can't you just ask your LOR?
For things like chilul Yom tov, chametz and tefillin he'd rather rely on some random guy on a forum
Unless he's just asking to hear different experiences
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: @Yehuda on March 26, 2017, 08:21:44 PM
I don't get it. Why can't you just ask your LOR?
DDF is much more fun than LOR.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: keemster26 on March 26, 2017, 08:32:10 PM
For things like chilul Yom tov, chametz and tefillin he'd rather rely on some random guy on a forum
Unless he's just asking to hear different experiences

DDF is much more fun than LOR.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: 12HRS on March 26, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
DDF is much more fun than LOR.

i.e. imagine if you could sell points


Unless he's just asking to hear different experiences

This was my thought
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: zagguru on March 26, 2017, 08:51:20 PM
For things like chilul Yom tov, chametz and tefillin he'd rather rely on some random guy on a forum
Unless he's just asking to hear different experiences

just wanted to hear different thoughts and experiences...
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: MeirS on March 27, 2017, 12:11:02 AM
I spent one YT in Eretz Yisroel.
At first I was very bothered, I researched the entire Sugya and it seemed that whatever I did I would get it wrong according to some respectable opinions.
After thinking through it many times I came to an understanding that whatever you do there are many merits and explanations for those opinions and as long as that's what your LOR told you to do, you're good.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Moshe123 on March 27, 2017, 12:13:50 AM
At least acknowledge what is the accepted psak by the vast vast majority of poskim. Not saying that your Rabbi can't hold differently.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: MeirS on March 27, 2017, 12:24:47 AM
At least acknowledge what is the accepted psak by the vast vast majority of poskim. Not saying that your Rabbi can't hold differently.
Why?

It's a very complicated Sugya from many angles.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: shiframeir on March 27, 2017, 12:46:18 AM
It's a very complicated Sugya from many angles.
Yup. i spent way too much time going crazy on this. I'm going for pesach and im going to keep 2 days (obviously if there is any sort of possible emergency/someone in slight danger i will break it faster than u can say havdalah on yom kippur). there is no simple answer. I lived in sha'arei chessed for a while and always kept extra days, and heard from many people there how r Slomo Zalman was strongly opposed to the 2nd day minyanim with people saying brachos that really make no sense in israel and against the minhag of the community, and without a clear source in chazal that the application of the 2 day custom should apply when actually being in israel (note that in the time of the bm, no visitors/oleh regel kept a second day/brought second day karbanos, yet here we are prattling about this and that musaf...). Moreover, while there are few possible real instances of a possible Ba'al Toseif breach, eating matzah and no chametz on the 8th day is one of the few cases where it really looks like it should be an issue, and at the very least is avak ba'al toseif  ;D.
that said, there is a lot of firepower backing the need to be machmir and not be over on yom tov restrictions either that i just dont want to mess with (though there are recent big poskim like R Melamed that would rule for many visitors who have strong connections (spent a lot of time in israel already and will spend more) that its ok). its like a tightrope. i will daven in a big minyan, but i will fill really awkward about it. Siz shver tzu zein a Yid, especially a galus yid.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: a mirrer on March 27, 2017, 06:15:09 AM
The halacha is that unless you're a resident of Eretz Yisrael that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: zagguru on March 27, 2017, 06:34:11 AM
I spent one YT in Eretz Yisroel.
At first I was very bothered, I researched the entire Sugya and it seemed that whatever I did I would get it wrong according to some respectable opinions.
After thinking through it many times I came to an understanding that whatever you do there are many merits and explanations for those opinions and as long as that's what your LOR told you to do, you're good.

I really dont think that there is a more machmir opinion in this case. Even keeping 2 days has its problems. You could be saying bracha levatala, missing out on tefilin, etc...
I dont see how one could say that keeping 1 or 2 would be the more machmir opinion. Both have strong opinions backing them up
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: hvaces42 on March 27, 2017, 07:18:12 AM
I spent one YT in Eretz Yisroel.
At first I was very bothered, I researched the entire Sugya and it seemed that whatever I did I would get it wrong according to some respectable opinions.
After thinking through it many times I came to an understanding that whatever you do there are many merits and explanations for those opinions and as long as that's what your LOR told you to do, you're good.
As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Z56 on March 27, 2017, 07:31:12 AM
As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.

Well said
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 27, 2017, 08:11:28 AM
As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.
For some, missing a day of tefillin before 120 is far more worrisome than burning and finger pointing after 120
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 27, 2017, 08:15:16 AM
The halacha is that unless you're a resident of Eretz Yisrael that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.
Nice to finally see one topic that is so black and white on a forum that at its essence seems to be about always seeing things as "YMMV" and then finding nuances and opportunities to exploit
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: aygart on March 27, 2017, 08:17:23 AM
Nice to finally see one topic that is so black and white on a forum that at its essence seems to be about always seeing things as "YMMV" and then finding nuances and opportunities to exploit
lol
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: koplonko on March 27, 2017, 08:33:14 AM
על פי התורה אשר יורוך
That's basically the biblical source and power of ALOR. He might have it wrong, but you will be doing the right thing. As opposed to someone else who is not following his LOR is definitely doing it wrong
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: koplonko on March 27, 2017, 08:34:04 AM
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
-1
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: hvaces42 on March 27, 2017, 08:40:49 AM
For some, missing a day of tefillin before 120 is far more worrisome than burning and finger pointing after 120
Huh?

Let's play this out...If the psak you get is 2 days and you feel you know better and worry about missing tefillin, then why did you ask? What you describe is chumrah culture, or, as we describe it in the real world, OCD.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 27, 2017, 09:10:53 AM
Nice to finally see one topic that is so black and white on a forum that at its essence seems to be about always seeing things as "YMMV" and then finding nuances and opportunities to exploit
:D
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 27, 2017, 09:11:10 AM
Huh?

Let's play this out...If the psak you get is 2 days and you feel you know better and worry about missing tefillin, then why did you ask? What you describe is chumrah culture, or, as we describe it in the real world, OCD.
I wasn't arguing with you. You should definitely do exactly what your lor paskens. It was a visceral reaction to the how and why we do things rather than the actual halacha and/or minhag.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Z56 on March 27, 2017, 09:27:59 AM
How can I add a poll in the wiki ?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: moen on March 27, 2017, 09:39:38 AM
Why don't we hear what JTZ has to say about this!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: hvaces42 on March 27, 2017, 10:16:07 AM
I wasn't arguing with you. You should definitely do exactly what your lor paskens. It was a visceral reaction to the how and why we do things rather than the actual halacha and/or minhag.
What does that mean? We do things based on the actual halacha and/or minhag that we receive from our parents and/or our LORs. And if they were incorrect in transmitting it to us then its on them, not on us to make our own decisions and worry about our own practices. If you do that then its on you. So worrying about not putting on tefillin when your parents and/or LOR set your path for you is not something that would ever come into consideration. Creating new chumrahs and frumkeiten seems to be all the rage but its just not how it works.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: bestwatchman on March 27, 2017, 10:21:45 AM
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
Sorry, it ain't b&w for chabad either. It's well known that there are two prominent Chabad Rabbonim who each hold differently on this. You go to the one who's answer you want to hear...
Personally I did two days except one Shavuos when I was in an Israeli program and totally forgot about the second day.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Yehuda57 on March 27, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
What does that mean? We do things based on the actual halacha and/or minhag that we receive from our parents and/or our LORs. And if they were incorrect in transmitting it to us then its on them, not on us to make our own decisions and worry about our own practices. If you do that then its on you. So worrying about not putting on tefillin when your parents and/or LOR set your path for you is not something that would ever come into consideration. Creating new chumrahs and frumkeiten seems to be all the rage but its just not how it works.

I should really let this go, as we are clearly having entirely an different discussion. But, seeing as you're the guy who tossed his salad over people not getting a joke*1, I worry you may have a nervous breakdown*2 if I don't explain it. So let me dig in and break it down.

You said:

As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.

I then responded that for some, the how and why of doing mitzvos and following halacha is not about "point[ing] fingers after 120" or "[the] risk [of] burning." I used "missing a day of tefillin" not to say that you should be worried about missing tefillin when your lor paskened to keep 2 days, but just as a pertinent example.

You then misunderstood my post, diagnosed me with a medical condition, and created an entire social phenomena or some sort chumra culture, condescendingly excluding me and others in this newly made demographic from the "real world" - which is ironic, being that said "real" world is referred to as "עלמא דשיקרא", and your original post makes reference to a post-120 world, which I'd assume means you ascribe to that being "the real world" - but I digress.

I then tried to explain, after your misunderstanding of my post, that it is not about extra chumras or even this issue of 1 or 2 days, but my post was merely a visceral reaction to the attitude merely getting the right psak to be able to assign blame after 120 and not to have to worry about burning in hell. So I made a little quip. That's it. Not an contrary opinion, not an argumentative post. Just a quip about attitudes in fulfilling mitzvos.

Then, you further misunderstood my explanation, and doubled down on on your judgmental stereotyping and pseudo psychology.

Then, I wrote this lengthy post, putting you and anyone else who bothers wasting their time reading it, through untold misery and confusion. But hey, I had fun writing it.

*1This post, too, is written jokingly. So by your standards, I assume you will not take offense.
*2I normally would not joke about such things, but after you diagnosed me with OCD I figured I might as well.


P.S. Apologies Tapatalk readers.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: MeirS on March 27, 2017, 11:21:09 AM
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
-100
There are many varying sources in Chabad itself as to what's the correct way to do it.
-1
Thanks
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: AsherO on March 27, 2017, 12:39:50 PM
There are many varying sources in Chabad itself as to what's the correct way to do it. Thanks

Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: a mirrer on March 28, 2017, 06:13:54 AM
Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
interesting my grandfather is chabad and does one day so i assumed that was the minhag in chabad
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Emkay on March 28, 2017, 06:19:18 AM
Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
Both sides can be mekilim or machmirim.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2017, 06:22:28 AM
When I asked my Rov the shaila in 2010 he asked if I wanted to hold one day or 2 days  ;D

When I said I'd be staying by people doing one day he told me to call Rabbi Ashkenazi.

My Rov actually told his own son in yeshiva there to go to Eilat and do 2 days...
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 28, 2017, 07:32:16 AM
When I asked my Rov the shaila in 2010 he asked if I wanted to hold one day or 2 days  ;D

When I said I'd be staying by people doing one day he told me to call Rabbi Ashkenazi.
IMHO, one who lives with the Rebbe's sichos, would naturally want to keep 2 days Yomtov regardless of where that person is. As a matter of fact, such a person might feel רחמנות towards people that are Halachically required to keep only one day, and would try to avoid being in a situation that requires him to keep one day himself. I know of someone who lives in Kfar Chabad (though I believe he never accepted Israeli citizenship, despite his wife and kids all being born there) and keeps two days. I wouldn't call one way or the other a קולא or a חומרא, it's just a matter of perspective and actual Halachic ruling obtained.

The yeshiva in Tzfas, which has R' Isaac Landa as their Halachic authority, has minyanim and Yomtov seudos for non-Israelis.

A couple of years ago I was stuck in Eretz Yisroel for Shavuos without my family, that stayed in NY, and did two days (which I believe under the circumstances most Rabbonim would rule as the right thing) in a city where I must have been the only one keeping second day. There were definitely no special minyanim, and it was quite an odd experience.

Then there is also שיטת הרמב"ם, which IINM is דעת יחיד, that most places in Eretz Yisroel should still keep two days, as he holds that it's not whether שלוחי בית דין could have reached the area, but rather if they actually went to the place, and in case of doubt - keep 2 days.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2017, 07:41:38 AM
And Rabbi Ashkenazi was adamant that the halacha is one day and doing two days causes you to make brachas lvatola and miss tefilin.

Strong arguments both ways on this one.

I've only been to Israel for a YT once.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: zagguru on March 28, 2017, 07:50:18 AM
And Rabbi Ashkenazi was adamant that the halacha is one day and doing two days causes you to make brachas lvatola and miss tefilin.

Strong arguments both ways on this one.

I've only been to Israel for a YT once.

I have heard of others who share the same opinion.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: MeirS on March 28, 2017, 08:54:25 AM
IMHO, one who lives with the Rebbe's sichos, would naturally want to keep 2 days Yomtov regardless of where that person is. As a matter of fact, such a person might feel רחמנות towards people that are Halachically required to keep only one day, and would try to avoid being in a situation that requires him to keep one day himself. I know of someone who lives in Kfar Chabad (though I believe he never accepted Israeli citizenship, despite his wife and kids all being born there) and keeps two days. I wouldn't call one way or the other a קולא or a חומרא, it's just a matter of perspective and actual Halachic ruling obtained.

The yeshiva in Tzfas, which has R' Isaac Landa as their Halachic authority, has minyanim and Yomtov seudos for non-Israelis.

A couple of years ago I was stuck in Eretz Yisroel for Shavuos without my family, that stayed in NY, and did two days (which I believe under the circumstances most Rabbonim would rule as the right thing) in a city where I must have been the only one keeping second day. There were definitely no special minyanim, and it was quite an odd experience.

Then there is also שיטת הרמב"ם, which IINM is דעת יחיד, that most places in Eretz Yisroel should still keep two days, as he holds that it's not whether שלוחי בית דין could have reached the area, but rather if they actually went to the place, and in case of doubt - keep 2 days.
Well said!

OTOH, there's the מהדורה בתרא from the Alter Rebbe which says that these things have nothing to do with where you're from or where you're going rather with the המשכות and גילוי אור that shines at different times and different places.

It's amazing how in the first 4 Simanim the AR managed to discuss the second day YT issue.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 28, 2017, 09:00:03 AM
And Rabbi Ashkenazi was adamant that the halacha is one day and doing two days causes you to make brachas lvatola and miss tefilin.

Strong arguments both ways on this one.

Absolutely true.

Yomtov is the one of the best examples of how the power to determine the laws of yiddishkeit are in the hands of the Rabbis. (ישראל דקדשינהו לזמנים).

ועשית ככל אשר יורוך is a major cornerstone of yiddishkeit.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2017, 09:03:01 AM

OTOH, there's the מהדורה בתרא from the Alter Rebbe which says that these things have nothing to do with where you're from or where you're going rather with the המשכות and גילוי אור that shines at different times and different places. .
Isn't that the logical conclusion?
After all, that's how it was bizman habayis.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: MeirS on March 28, 2017, 09:16:25 AM
Isn't that the logical conclusion?
After all, that's how it was bizman habayis.
Perhaps but he comes from a totally different angle. The AR started rewriting SA but we only have the first 4 Simanim that talk about waking up. In it he asks about Tikun Chatzos, how the עת רצון could be at different times in different places and to answer he brings an example from YT where different places keep YT different times and he explains it's because different גילויים at different times in different places. I believe this totally contradicts what he wrote in Hilchos YT and the opinion on most other Poskim on the matter.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 28, 2017, 09:17:20 AM
Isn't that the logical conclusion?
After all, that's how it was bizman habayis.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2017, 09:18:10 AM
I don't think anyone is arguing about asking.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: mgarfin on March 28, 2017, 12:32:15 PM
There are 3 primary shitos in this sugya

1- The Mechaber holds that it all has to do with where you resident and  if you plan to go back there (dayto lachzor)
2- The Shulchan Aruch HaRav brings a second shitah that you go by the place where you are at now.
3- the Chachm Tzvi held that in  Eretz Yisroel all are to hold 1 day even if dayto laczor, and in the diaspora, he held like the Mechaber


In the term used by the Mechaber dayto lachzor, there are lots of options on its interpretation.
How many years are you planning on staying?
If it's not finally possible for you to stay?
Are you getting all your money from other location?
Are you unmarried living on your parent's money so you need to ask?
And so on
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: koplonko on March 28, 2017, 01:13:29 PM
Then there is also שיטת הרמב"ם, which IINM is דעת יחיד, that most places in Eretz Yisroel should still keep two days, as he holds that it's not whether שלוחי בית דין could have reached the area, but rather if they actually went to the place, and in case of doubt - keep 2 days.
And the יודעי דבר say that behind the scenes, the Rebbe was trying to get the rabanut in Israel to implement it.
I know of someone who lives in Kfar Chabad (though I believe he never accepted Israeli citizenship, despite his wife and kids all being born there) and keeps two days. I wouldn't call one way or the other a קולא or a חומרא, it's just a matter of perspective and actual Halachic ruling obtained.
As did Reb Mendel Futerfas and others now as well, mainly from the group of שלוחי קודש
ETA: Reb Mendel might have been only about saying tefilas haderech
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: gozalim on March 28, 2017, 01:51:50 PM
let's not confuse bochurim in yeshivah (similar to dan's situation) and someone who has a family back home (ex-gingi). there's a fundamentally different level of דעתו לחזור, which will come into the rov's psak.
(agav, in my days, rav ashkenazi would sometimes say תומכי תמימים איז א מאמע in connection with this psak)

regarding מהדורא בתרא while there are those who will pasken that way straight, I can't say i've heard of too many of those. most seem to go back and forth on the דעתו לחזור definitions (and the מענות...) I don't know why that is, whether it's considered unsure that מה"ב was intended as final psak, or if they're merely interpreting that one's hamshachos flow through their "home base שר"?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2017, 01:58:52 PM
Clearly Chabad is different as any Lubavitcher worth his salt has in full mind that Moshiach will come that YT and doesn't intend on returning ;)
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: mgarfin on March 28, 2017, 02:08:55 PM
Clearly Chabad is different as any Lubavitcher worth his salt has in full mind that Moshiach will come that YT and doesn't intend on returning ;)

As far is I know thats part of the 13 Ani ma'amin (ikrum)
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Dan on March 28, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
Well then who intends on returning to chu"l?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: mgarfin on March 28, 2017, 02:14:26 PM
I think Rav J.B. Soloveitchik paskened that you go by the place where you are at now.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: mgarfin on March 28, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
Well then who intends on returning to chu"l?

No true believer, and still the Mechber puts it as what you're intention on returning
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: AsherO on March 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM
No true believer, and still the Mechber puts it as what you're intention on returning

He must have written shu"a for the kofrim....

Reminds me of a joke:

Someone asked a Kohen Am Haaretz if he knows the meaning of each word in birchas kohanim, the Kohen replied in the affirmative.

So the guy asks the Kohen: "What does V'ychuneka mean?" So the Kohen says "and he should choke you".

So the guy looks at the Kohen startled: "What? Is that what you bless the people with?"

So the Kohen responds: "No, by v'ychuneka I think about the Goyim"

😁😁
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: username on March 28, 2017, 04:32:02 PM
^^^
True story.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 28, 2017, 04:45:42 PM
Well then who intends on returning to chu"l?
Right. We will all stay in 770. ;)

And to address the המשכות and הארות of YomTov, it seems like that is going to be equal to everyday, which is why כל המועדים עתידים להתבטל, וימי הפורים אינם בטלים לעולם.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Moshe123 on March 28, 2017, 04:48:33 PM
The Chasam Sofer writes that when Moshiach comes, there will be 2 days YT even in EY.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 28, 2017, 04:51:41 PM
The Chasam Sofer writes that when Moshiach comes, there will be 2 days YT even in EY.
I think I would agree. Going backward to less days of YT couldn't be what Moshiach is about!
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: 12HRS on March 28, 2017, 04:56:04 PM
i thought it becomes a full 7 day yt?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 28, 2017, 04:59:36 PM
i thought it becomes a full 7 365 day yt?
FTFY
כמנין ימי שנות החמה.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Ergel on March 29, 2017, 09:23:14 PM
I think Rav J.B. Soloveitchik paskened that you go by the place where you are at now.
Nope. The Rav held you keep a day and a half. Daven chol. Put on tefillin. No melacha. IINM that is the generally accepted Brisker psak
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Ergel on March 29, 2017, 09:24:05 PM
I think I would agree. Going backward to less days of YT couldn't be what Moshiach is about!
::)
Look what galus is doing to you.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Ergel on March 29, 2017, 09:24:28 PM
The Chasam Sofer writes that when Moshiach comes, there will be 2 days YT even in EY.
Source?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 29, 2017, 09:45:08 PM
::)
Look what galus is doing to you.
It's making me sick of it. What is it doing to you?
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: koplonko on March 29, 2017, 09:51:54 PM
The Chasam Sofer writes that when Moshiach comes, there will be 2 days YT even in EY.
Source?
Shu"t o"c end siman 145
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: aygart on March 29, 2017, 10:13:05 PM
I think I would agree. Going backward to less days of YT couldn't be what Moshiach is about!
Maybe with the Bais Hamikdash the one day of Yom Tov will be so great that only one day will be needed to have a much greater effect than 2 now. #MakeYomTovGreatAgain
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: ExGingi on March 29, 2017, 10:44:22 PM
Maybe with the Bais Hamikdash the one day of Yom Tov will be so great that only one day will be needed to have a much greater effect than 2 now. #MakeYomTovGreatAgain
Very possible. But that second day cannot be demoted. If anything it will be regular days being "promoted" which is why כל המועדים עתידים להתבטל.
Title: Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
Post by: Z56 on May 30, 2017, 08:17:59 AM
Bump.

So who's holding 1 day 😜