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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: zale on December 20, 2017, 05:29:46 PM

Title: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/943606404169940992?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mmgfarb on December 20, 2017, 05:30:24 PM
He hasn't been freed yet.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 05:31:02 PM
BH!
MT!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshke on December 20, 2017, 05:31:25 PM
Kushner Chabad ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 05:33:27 PM
Kushner Chabad ?

I’m sure we’ll find out all the details. Meanwhile I’m watching all the haters on Twitter eat their hearts out.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: AJK on December 20, 2017, 05:34:03 PM
Wowowow.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshke on December 20, 2017, 05:36:01 PM
He hasn't been freed yet.
Going around a voice note of his son that his on his way home
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mmgfarb on December 20, 2017, 05:36:39 PM
Going around a voice note of his son that his on his way home
I stand corrected
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sillypainter on December 20, 2017, 05:38:49 PM
WOW. This is a true Chanukah miracle.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: precise on December 20, 2017, 05:42:11 PM
....and Donald from all people is an anti semite.....people should stop blinding themselves to stupidity and the false media and see the truth for themselves
UNBELIEVABLE! B"H!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jackofall on December 20, 2017, 05:43:28 PM
Wow!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshe123 on December 20, 2017, 05:43:41 PM
Baruch Matir Asurim! I'm literally jumping for joy!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on December 20, 2017, 05:43:45 PM
Mazal Tov!
Thank you President Trump!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Boruch999 on December 20, 2017, 05:44:30 PM
Pidyon shvuyin is doche everything.  More than anything else this justifies every vote for Trump.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Toasted on December 20, 2017, 05:49:07 PM
Pidyon shvuyin is doche everything.  More than anything else this justifies every vote for Trump.
Bring out the crow for the McMullen voters.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mgarfin on December 20, 2017, 05:50:39 PM
Trump now has issued one pardon (Sheriff Joe Arpaio) and one commutation (This).
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: myi on December 20, 2017, 05:54:43 PM
Wow BH good to hear.
(https://imgur.com/En27Ig5.jpg)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 05:57:29 PM
Amazing(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171220/472eafb97ec56ba14edc519d4d53c714.jpg)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 20, 2017, 06:08:11 PM
WH Link
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-trump-commutes-sentence-sholom-rubashkin/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on December 20, 2017, 06:09:29 PM
Wow, just Wow. Boruch Hashem.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 20, 2017, 06:15:28 PM
Bring out the crow for the McMullen voters.
Happiest crow eater right here! May Trump continue to prove me wrong for the remainder of his term.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 20, 2017, 06:16:29 PM
Pidyon shvuyin is doche everything.  More than anything else this justifies every vote for Trump.

Maybe Dan will finally support him now.  :)  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sky121 on December 20, 2017, 06:17:00 PM
Why did Trump do this now?
Do we have any clue?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 06:17:44 PM
Happiest crow eater right here! May Trump continue to prove me wrong for the remainder of his term.
+1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 06:18:28 PM
Why did Trump do this now?
Do we have any clue?
Zos Chanukah :)
8th day of Chanukah is l'mailah miteva and is connected to all geulas :D
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 06:20:50 PM
Why did Trump do this now?
Do we have any clue?
Christmas gift.  ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Z56 on December 20, 2017, 06:21:00 PM
He sat for 8 years and 8 days and released on 8th day Chanukah HOW CRAZY
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 20, 2017, 06:25:08 PM
Happiest crow eater right here! May Trump continue to prove me wrong for the remainder of his term.
+1 I never expected this.
Glad I was proven wrong. Just dont gloat. Lets be happy for him and his family and all of us who davened for him.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: pixi on December 20, 2017, 06:25:43 PM
BH!
I wonder who delivered this.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 06:26:30 PM
Christmas gift.  ;)
Neee chanukah gift.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
He sat for 8 years and 8 days and released on 8th day Chanukah HOW CRAZY
Dec 12th 2009 he was jailed? Where did you see that?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 06:31:00 PM
People are saying all over, while I'm pretty darn certain, it completely fabricated.
Yet every idiot hears it and believes it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: rs242 on December 20, 2017, 06:32:28 PM
People are saying all over, while I'm pretty darn certain, it completely fabricated.
Yet every idiot hears it and believes it.
Do u not believe he is coming home?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mgarfin on December 20, 2017, 06:33:48 PM
Why did Trump do this now?
Do we have any clue?

Just guessing, was looking for a day it won't dominate the news!
That is BTW a good thing for jews
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yitz on December 20, 2017, 06:34:46 PM



Gr8 News









Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 06:34:50 PM
Do u not believe he is coming home?
No! That's pretty clear, I don't believe the years 8 days crap
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: BP16 on December 20, 2017, 06:35:06 PM
What does it mean commuted? Why not released?
And @Dan would you have voted for Trump if you would have known that he would release him?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Toasted on December 20, 2017, 06:37:11 PM
Don’t mean to derail but as you’re enjoying the crow maybe go for doubles.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/943241599953309696
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: rs242 on December 20, 2017, 06:38:37 PM
Don’t mean to derail but as you’re enjoying the crow maybe go for doubles.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/943241599953309696
Pls keep your drama to the designated threads
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 06:40:32 PM
What does it mean commuted mean? Why not released?

He did enough time but was guilty.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: BP16 on December 20, 2017, 06:43:55 PM
He did enough time but was guilty.
and those drug addtics that Obama  released before he left office where also commuted?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 06:45:03 PM
and those drug addtics that trump released before he left office where also commuted?
I believe you mean Obama.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 20, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
He did enough time but was guilty.
No Clinton style Pardongate and the prosecutors save face.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: BP16 on December 20, 2017, 06:46:55 PM
I believe you mean Obama.
Yes sorry my phone changed it from Obama to Trump  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 20, 2017, 06:47:24 PM
BH!
I wonder who delivered this.
Abayei says look up, Rava says to go outside first.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshe123 on December 20, 2017, 06:48:21 PM
My Trump vote was worth it only for this. Who cares if he's a shiker.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 06:49:10 PM
Abayei says look up, Rava says to go outside first.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 06:59:27 PM
and those drug addtics that Obama  released before he left office where also commuted?
All I did was answer a question. Why bring in this trash?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 20, 2017, 07:04:54 PM
All I did was answer a question. Why bring in this trash?

he was not guilty of the crimes that the raid was based on. Cleared of all charges. No illegal hiring. No drugs.

Only after a month of paying 3x salaries to new unskilled workers in the aftermath of the raid, did he need to go out and take a loan based on the value of his property. NOBODY gets 27 years for that. Nobody is being hurt. Bank is 100% fine with his repayment plan.

This 27 year sentence by the judge (above the prosecution's request) was pure anti-Semitism and she was too involved in the prosecution's case to be able to be an unbiased judge from the beginning.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 07:08:33 PM
he was not guilty of the crimes that the raid was based on. Cleared of all charges. No illegal hiring. No drugs.

Only after a month of paying 3x salaries to new unskilled workers in the aftermath of the raid, did he need to go out and take a loan based on the value of his property. NOBODY gets 27 years for that. Nobody is being hurt. Bank is 100% fine with his repayment plan.

This 27 year sentence by the judge (above the prosecution's request) was pure anti-Semitism and she was too involved in the prosecution's case to be able to be an unbiased judge from the beginning.
Don't shoot the messenger. Trump could have issued a pardon but didn't. All I did was explain what it meant to commute his sentence.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 20, 2017, 07:23:29 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. Trump could have issued a pardon but didn't. All I did was explain what it meant to commute his sentence.

perhaps safer for trump this way. Between 'moving' the embassy to Jerusalem and commuting Rubashkin, we are all happier this way rather than look like trump is strongly catering to the jews. He's just trying to do what is right.

So, there will be some fines and repayments. But to have the family all together finally is priceless!  :) Great news!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 07:27:40 PM
...we are all happier this way rather than look like trump is strongly catering to the jews. He's just trying to do what is right.
That remains to be seen. He could have done this on day one. IMHO I would be thanking Ivanka.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shwarmabob on December 20, 2017, 07:28:42 PM
Wow! Amazing  ;D
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 20, 2017, 07:28:56 PM
My Trump vote was worth it only for this. Who cares if he's a shiker.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 20, 2017, 07:29:33 PM
That remains to be seen. He could have done this on day one. IMHO I would be thanking Ivanka.
Alan Dershowitz, as per Ami
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 20, 2017, 07:29:51 PM
Unbelievable!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 07:30:03 PM
That remains to be seen. He could have done this on day one. IMHO I would be thanking Ivanka.
Is that also who the todah (means thank you) in your profile picture is to?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 20, 2017, 07:31:30 PM
From the politics thread
By the time this thread ends crows well be extinct
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 07:33:30 PM
Alan Dershowitz, as per Ami
Probably but the biggest influence I would put my money on Ivanka.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 07:34:30 PM
Is that also who the todah (means thank you) in your profile picture is to?
That was to everyone here.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 07:35:20 PM
That was to everyone here.
I assumed it was to God.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shwarmabob on December 20, 2017, 07:40:26 PM
Is there a bracha for this?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:48 PM
Is there a bracha for this?
For him, yes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 20, 2017, 07:44:43 PM
770 gonna be a party house tonight
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yhaller14 on December 20, 2017, 07:45:44 PM
770 gonna be a party house tonight
Already is
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 07:45:56 PM
770 gonna be a party house tonight
http://770live.com/En770/770live.asp?lang=1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: happinessNsunshine on December 20, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
Rubashkins wife spoke in my sisters school today and the said tehilim together. She mentioned that he was released on bail on the 3rd (gimel) of the month. They used to be mechazek themselves that aleph for emunah, bais for bitachon and gimel For geulah.
Tonight is the 3rd of teves!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 20, 2017, 07:53:11 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. Trump could have issued a pardon but didn't. All I did was explain what it meant to commute his sentence.
You and Trump are exactly right. He was guilty of a crime. Didn't deserve that sentence or anything close to what he's already served.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 07:56:29 PM
You and Trump are exactly right. He was guilty of a crime. Didn't deserve that sentence or anything close to what he's already served.
From the little bit I have seen here I would agree with you.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 08:00:18 PM
BH! May this be an אתחלתא דגאולה and may it continue to the full redemption of klal yisreol b'karov mamash!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: AJK on December 20, 2017, 08:01:01 PM
What's absolutely mind-boggling to consider is if the judge had not been such a zealot, and sentenced him to, say, 16 years (which would have been both (i) far more consistent with comparable sentences and (ii) not more than the 25 years the prosecutors had asked for!), the outcry would not have been as big, the support to free him not as widespread, and the unity among klal yisroel not as strong.

It was precisely because of the unprecedented 27-year sentence that he's out after "only" eight, and not sitting for double that.

I think there's a relevant lesson here. Not often are people in this world afforded the opportunity to see the maxim of "gam zu letovah" come to vibrant life, that if the hand of God is moving, it is only doing so for the best. 

An analogy that has always struck me is embroidery.  As you may know, the bottom of an embroidered picture is a chaotic, haphazard mess.  However, from the perspective of the creator, everything is in deliberate, beautiful, harmonized order.

Too many times in life we look up, shake our heads, and wonder "How could this happen?" "What did we do to deserve this?"

In those trying times, think of Shalom Rubashkin and the embroidered picture, and know that although it may look ugly from our humanly vantage (from the bottom), that is not so in true reality--from above, this, that, or whatever, is deliberate, beautiful, and for the best.


(https://api.monosnap.com/rpc/file/download?id=NKy4UachMPS6PTrwVDGVsv3iZsjf0q)


(https://api.monosnap.com/rpc/file/download?id=oXxFtiPBKf46Nph5KisXr1U7VfN30n)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 20, 2017, 08:02:48 PM
http://770live.com/En770/770live.asp?lang=1 (http://770live.com/En770/770live.asp?lang=1)
Wow. How long has this been going on?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 08:07:11 PM
An analogy that has always struck me is embroidery.


(https://api.monosnap.com/rpc/file/download?id=NKy4UachMPS6PTrwVDGVsv3iZsjf0q)


(https://api.monosnap.com/rpc/file/download?id=oXxFtiPBKf46Nph5KisXr1U7VfN30n)
Very very nice! Is the analogy your own?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 08:15:52 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Well, thank you Mr. Dershowitz!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: happinessNsunshine on December 20, 2017, 08:17:05 PM
He's going to the ohel soon
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mendyt on December 20, 2017, 08:19:41 PM
Arriving to his house in Monsey any min.
Big crowd outside
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 08:23:37 PM
Arriving to his house in Monsey any min.
Big crowd outside

Is there a livestream of this?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: elit on December 20, 2017, 08:24:04 PM
People are saying all over, while I'm pretty darn certain, it completely fabricated.
Yet every idiot hears it and believes it.
+1 it's amazing how ppl will pass things on without stopping to think for a second
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on December 20, 2017, 08:29:02 PM
First statement from Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin
outside otisville gas staion

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 08:30:35 PM
My five-year-old nephew heard the commotion around the great news, after picking up some info he ran excitedly to his younger sisters to tell them "the sar-hamashkin was just released from jail!"
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sillypainter on December 20, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Arriving to his house in Monsey any min.
Big crowd outside

address or cross street please?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: 6girls on December 20, 2017, 08:46:40 PM
address or cross street please?
Southgate drive
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mendyt on December 20, 2017, 08:47:24 PM
address or cross street please?
96 Southgate Dr, Spring Valley, NY 10977
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 08:48:39 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/23538937e1dc53170d4294ac83e7c71b.png)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on December 20, 2017, 08:50:39 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/23538937e1dc53170d4294ac83e7c71b.png)

wow unbelievable story
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 20, 2017, 08:51:31 PM
Is there a livestream of this?

https://www.instagram.com/zisheytwersky/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 08:52:13 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/23538937e1dc53170d4294ac83e7c71b.png)
WOW!

Where was this story buried till now?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: helpyouamdme on December 20, 2017, 08:55:40 PM
Just came back from his house in Monsey was amazing to see how Klal Yisrael altogether over there דידן נצח✌
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 20, 2017, 08:56:02 PM
As someone who davened 3x a day for many years and wrote letters, lobbied politicians etc., I could not be happier.

BUT.....amidst all the Simcha, we should still remember that he still commited a crime and we should not be dancing in the streets like a POW was just released. It just doesn’t look right. Turning SMR into a Hero isn’t the right message to be giving over  to our children and the world as a whole.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 20, 2017, 08:56:05 PM
Bussiest day on Whatsapp
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: 6girls on December 20, 2017, 08:58:08 PM
Bussiest day on Whatsapp
.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/f610fda24e99666b2e4d3c704fe6f4d6.jpg)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 08:59:18 PM
BUT.....amidst all the Simcha, we should still remember that he still commited a crime and we should not be dancing in the streets like a POW was just released. It just doesn’t look right. Turning SMR into a Hero isn’t the right message to be giving over  to our children and the world as a whole.
Glad I didn't say this.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sillypainter on December 20, 2017, 09:00:21 PM
As someone who davened 3x a day for many years and wrote letters, lobbied politicians etc., I could not be happier.

BUT.....amidst all the Simcha, we should still remember that he still commited a crime and we should not be dancing in the streets like a POW was just released. It just doesn’t look right. Turning SMR into a Hero isn’t the right message to be giving over  to our children and the world as a whole.

Don't want to make this thread into a popcorn thread, but I can almost certainly promise you that you also committed the same horrible crime on a credit card application. It's people like you why moshiach isn't here yet, because you are politically correct.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 20, 2017, 09:01:04 PM
https://www.instagram.com/zisheytwersky/

Hello @Dan



Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 20, 2017, 09:05:13 PM
Don't want to make this thread into a popcorn thread, but I can almost certainly promise you that you also committed the same horrible crime on a credit card application. It's people like you why moshiach isn't here yet, because you are politically correct.

Was waiting for someone to post that. Talk to some of the people who were involved day in and day out for years. Blood, sweat and tears. They are saying the exact same thing. He was found guilty by the court of law and bh commuted (not pardoned). We don’t need to make parades and dance in the streets. Open up a tehillim and thank Hashem for this wonderful gift.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 09:06:35 PM
As someone who davened 3x a day for many years and wrote letters, lobbied politicians etc., I could not be happier.

BUT.....amidst all the Simcha, we should still remember that he still commited a crime and we should not be dancing in the streets like a POW was just released. It just doesn’t look right. Turning SMR into a Hero isn’t the right message to be giving over  to our children and the world as a whole.
As someone who only mentioned him in my prayers about once a week, I totally disagree.
We are celebrating that he doesn't have to sit another 20 years, which would have been unjust compared to his crimes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 20, 2017, 09:07:12 PM
Oh and if you want to really thank someone for making this happen, drive down to Livingston, NJ. The real hero of this story resides there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 09:08:12 PM
As someone who only mentioned  him in my prayers about once a week, I totally disagree.
We are celebrating that he doesn't have to sit another 20 years, which would have been unjust compared to his crimes.

+1

It's not like he tried to burn down a house with a family sleeping inside.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 09:12:53 PM
Oh and if you want to really thank someone for making this happen, drive down to Livingston, NJ. The real hero of this story resides there.
Please elaborate
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 20, 2017, 09:13:21 PM
770 gonna be a party house tonight
It was going to be one even before this. It will now be a full house all-nighter.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on December 20, 2017, 09:14:41 PM
As someone who davened 3x a day for many years and wrote letters, lobbied politicians etc., I could not be happier.

BUT.....amidst all the Simcha, we should still remember that he still commited a crime and we should not be dancing in the streets like a POW was just released. It just doesn’t look right. Turning SMR into a Hero isn’t the right message to be giving over  to our children and the world as a whole.
I'm sure you did the most you can to free him but you make no sense. We all agree he committed a crime. If he would be sitting 5 years no one would talk about this and when he would be released there would be no one dancing in the streets. We are all celebrating because he was commuted from a sentence he didn't deserve. Nothing hard to understand. Stop with the non sense.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 09:15:02 PM
Oh and if you want to really thank someone for making this happen, drive down to Livingston, NJ. The real hero of this story resides there.

The Shluchim who know the Kushners?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 20, 2017, 09:18:14 PM
Glad I didn't say this.  :)
Bussiest day on Whatsapp

Anyone else have an issue with them singingדידן נצח ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 20, 2017, 09:19:47 PM
The Shluchim who know the Kushners?

Is that the latest story going around on whatsapp?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Is that the latest story going around on whatsapp?

Not at all. Just guessed that from what you said. Can you explain who the hero from Livingston is?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 09:23:08 PM

@shonhopwood
I wish the President would commute more sentences handed down by US District Court Judge Linda Reade, who is the worst fed sentencing judge in America. She gave my client 30 years in 2016 for selling synthetic marijuana. Rubashkin's sentence was equally appalling.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 20, 2017, 09:24:50 PM
Not at all. Just guessed that from what you said. Can you explain who the hero from Livingston is?

Charlie Kushner. He said it would be his priority and nothing would stop him from making sure his Mechutan got Shalom Rubashkin released. It was supposed to have happened before RH but there were things that got in the way.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 09:25:03 PM
@senorrinhatch
 3h3 hours ago
This is a real Hanukkah miracle. I am proud to be a part of a large, bipartisan group of members of Congress who, along with over a hundred former senior justice officials, have been calling for Mr. Rubashkin’s release for the past eight years.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 20, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
Charlie Kushner. He said it would be his priority and nothing would stop him from making sure his Mechutan got Shalom Rubashkin released. It was supposed to have happened before RH but there were things that got in the way.

Who brought it up to Charlie Kushner? Did he know Rubashkin?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 20, 2017, 09:31:13 PM
I
Who brought it up to Charlie Kushner? Did he know Rubashkin?

He has several business partners that have long been involved in the case. Rabbi Boyarsky from Aleph was extremely involved there as well. Having a bi-partisan support from top of both parties was also essential in providing Trump w the political cover neccesary.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Amusch on December 20, 2017, 09:33:05 PM
Who brought it up to Charlie Kushner? Did he know Rubashkin?

There are quite a few people who know both men well ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 09:35:56 PM
https://vimeo.com/248249454

dancing in Lakewood
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: happinessNsunshine on December 20, 2017, 09:58:36 PM
Monsey tours sponsored bus heading to 5501 15th ave. Left Monsey 15 minutes ago.he's going to his parents,  then to the ohel.

Update: they are not going to the ohel, just to 770. Then back to Monsey
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 10:04:21 PM
Chabad just declared Washington as the capital of the US. Beginning the process of moving 770 over to Washington.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yoohoo on December 20, 2017, 10:05:50 PM
Charlie Kushner. He said it would be his priority and nothing would stop him from making sure his Mechutan got Shalom Rubashkin released. It was supposed to have happened before RH but there were things that got in the way.
source?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 20, 2017, 10:07:11 PM
Chabad just declared Washington as the capital of the US. Beginning the process of moving 770 over to Washington.
#FakeNews
You don’t move your own Capital into another country’s capital that you recognize. You send your ambassador there. Chabad has an ambassador in Washington DC as well as thousands of other places.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 20, 2017, 10:15:05 PM
Wow. Can’t even call this thinly veiled antisemitism. Reminder to Mr Teig: SMR wasn’t serving any time for immigration offenses.

Quote
But former prosecutor Bob Teig, who retired in 2011 after serving as a prosecutor and spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office for the Northern District of Iowa, said Trump’s decision to commute Rubashkin’s sentence “makes no sense” given Trump’s repeated promises to get tougher on illegal immigration.

Teig said that every court that looked at Rubashkin’s sentence had concluded it was fair, and suggested that former Justice Department officials and lawmakers who supported leniency were unaware of the facts of the case.

“The outrage is backwards,” he said
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 10:18:08 PM
Wow. Can’t even call this thinly veiled antisemitism. Reminder to Mr Teig: SMR wasn’t serving any time for immigration offenses.
Anything crooked can be bent back straight, except for a human, usually.  ::)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Shauly101 on December 20, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
Chabad just declared Washington as the capital of the US. Beginning the process of moving 770 over to Washington.

From Mendy Pelion...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Shauly101 on December 20, 2017, 10:22:43 PM
Monsey tours sponsored bus heading to 5501 15th ave. Left Monsey 15 minutes ago.he's going to his parents,  then to the ohel.

Aren’t they by 14-43?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 10:23:41 PM
Wow. Can’t even call this thinly veiled antisemitism. Reminder to Mr Teig: SMR wasn’t serving any time for immigration offenses.
Who cares what that loser says.

Like AJK said, there's good chance if they wouldn't have let hate get in the way, SMR might have been locked up longer.
Venahapoch hu!

Hallelu es Hashem kal goyim, shabichuhu kol ha'umim ki gavar aleinu chasdoi.
R' Chaim Volozhiner says, that only they can truly praise Hashem for saving us, because only they know the true intentions and evil schemes involved.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 10:24:11 PM
Chabad just declared Washington as the capital of the US. Beginning the process of moving 770 over to Washington.

From Mendy Pelion...

Plagiarism

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:24:26 PM
Wow. Can’t even call this thinly veiled antisemitism. Reminder to Mr Teig: SMR wasn’t serving any time for immigration offenses.
Prosecutors are always against these things.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 20, 2017, 10:27:26 PM
Prosecutors are always against these things.
Which is why we have a constitution to protect us from them
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:30:47 PM
Which is why we have a constitution to protect us from them
They feel once they have a trail and it is decided that is it. I think we all can agree their as been some major abuses to this commute/pardon power. Leaving this case out of it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 20, 2017, 10:38:07 PM
They feel once they have a trail and it is decided that is it. I think we all can agree their as been some major abuses to this commute/pardon power. Leaving this case out of it.
Pardongate and Nixon's pardon being amongst the most egregious.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: @Yehuda on December 20, 2017, 10:39:58 PM
As someone who only mentioned him in my prayers about once a week, I totally disagree.
We are celebrating that he doesn't have to sit another 20 years, which would have been unjust compared to his crimes.
I don't recall the same celebrations when Pollard was released. Why was that?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:40:37 PM
Pardongate and Nixon's pardon being amongst the most egregious.
There is enough abuse to go around everywhere.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:41:16 PM
I don't recall the same celebrations when Pollard was released. Why was that?
He spied against our great country.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: happinessNsunshine on December 20, 2017, 10:41:23 PM
Aren’t they by 14-43?

As of now,  this is the route of the bus.
I can keep you posted
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 10:43:59 PM
I don't recall the same celebrations when Pollard was released. Why was that?
This:
https://www.dansdeals.com/miscellaneous/sholom-mordechai-rubashkin-free-go-home/#comment-1336102

He spied against our great country.
And this.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: @Yehuda on December 20, 2017, 10:44:29 PM
He spied against our great country.
And got a sentence longer than other spies. Same situation in terms of getting a sentence longer than it should have been.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 10:46:26 PM
And got a sentence longer than other spies. Same situation in terms of getting a sentence longer than it should have been.
White collar crime doesn't really piss people off
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 10:46:33 PM
What's absolutely mind-boggling to consider is if the judge had not been such a zealot, and sentenced him to, say, 16 years (which would have been both (i) far more consistent with comparable sentences and (ii) not more than the 25 years the prosecutors had asked for!), the outcry would not have been as big, the support to free him not as widespread, and the unity among klal yisroel not as strong.

It was precisely because of the unprecedented 27-year sentence that he's out after "only" eight, and not sitting for double that.

I think there's a relevant lesson here. Not often are people in this world afforded the opportunity to see the maxim of "gam zu letovah" come to vibrant life, that if the hand of God is moving, it is only doing so for the best. 

An analogy that has always struck me is embroidery.  As you may know, the bottom of an embroidered picture is a chaotic, haphazard mess.  However, from the perspective of the creator, everything is in deliberate, beautiful, harmonized order.

Too many times in life we look up, shake our heads, and wonder "How could this happen?" "What did we do to deserve this?"

In those trying times, think of Shalom Rubashkin and the embroidered picture, and know that although it may look ugly from our humanly vantage (from the bottom), that is not so in true reality--from above, this, that, or whatever, is deliberate, beautiful, and for the best.


(https://api.monosnap.com/rpc/file/download?id=NKy4UachMPS6PTrwVDGVsv3iZsjf0q)


(https://api.monosnap.com/rpc/file/download?id=oXxFtiPBKf46Nph5KisXr1U7VfN30n)
Well said!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:46:46 PM
And got a sentence longer than other spies. Same situation in terms of getting a sentence longer than it should have been.
There is no sentence to long for a traitor.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 10:47:35 PM
There is no sentence to long for a traitor.
Israel is an ally. Big difference. That's not a traitor.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:49:52 PM
Israel is an ally. Big difference. That's not a traitor.
No difference.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 10:53:03 PM
He spied against our great country.
Exactly. And he did it for money.

(Although I was happy when he got freed, it wouldn't be appropriate to celebrate, especially publicly)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: @Yehuda on December 20, 2017, 10:55:57 PM
There is no sentence to long for a traitor.
But he's a broooother! How can we not rejoice for a brother?? Well, if his Kippah doesn't match ours, maybe then we don't need to rejoice...  :-\
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 10:57:46 PM
But he's a broooother! How can we not rejoice for a brother?? Well, if his Kippah doesn't match ours, maybe then we don't need to rejoice...  :-\
You could have celebrated but then don't ask why does everyone hate us.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 10:58:49 PM
But he's a broooother! How can we not rejoice for a brother?? Well, if his Kippah doesn't match ours, maybe then we don't need to rejoice...  :-\
Gimme a break. It's completely and utterly different.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 10:59:22 PM
But he's a broooother! How can we not rejoice for a brother?? Well, if his Kippah doesn't match ours, maybe then we don't need to rejoice...  :-\
Chabad wears a different kippa then Lakewood, and has totally different Hashkafos. And men were dancing and women were crying all over Lakewood today. Don't play that card right now.

The difference between Pollard and Rubashkin isn't the kipah.

One spied on our country, and one may have done a white collar crime that deserved a few years.

One was clearly targeted because he was a Jew, and one we're still not sure why he was targeted, we don't know why George Tenet threatened to resign if Clinton freed him, we don't know if we know all the facts.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 11:00:10 PM
Gimme a break. It's completely and utterly different.
How can you say a random while collar crime remotely effects you.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 20, 2017, 11:00:49 PM
But he's a broooother! How can we not rejoice for a brother?? Well, if his Kippah doesn't match ours, maybe then we don't need to rejoice...  :-\
People wanted to at the time but were told not to for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 11:01:01 PM
Chabad wears a different kippa then Lakewood, and has totally different Hashkafos. And men were dancing and women were crying all over Lakewood today. Don't play that card right now.

The difference between Pollard and Rubashkin isn't the kipah.

One spied on our country, and one may have done a white collar crime that deserved a few years.

Same goes for Satmar and down the line. Amazing achdus.

Had the govt not forced the business to close, he would have never been in any trouble at all. It was a big mess and 27 years was a massive injustice that nearly everyone recognized.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 20, 2017, 11:01:05 PM
I believe most of us were happy about both of them, yet there is a big difference between the two.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 11:01:17 PM
One spied on our country, and one may have done a white collar crime that deserved a few years.
Holiday must be almost over. Common sense is coming back.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on December 20, 2017, 11:05:58 PM
Same goes for Satmar and down the line. Amazing achdus.

Had the govt not forced the business to close, he would have never been in any trouble at all. It was a big mess and 27 years was a massive injustice that nearly everyone recognized.

without a doubt if it wasn't for this judge he never would have been in this position her over reach should be a crime in itself
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 11:06:22 PM
Holiday must be almost over. Common sense is coming back.  :)
FTFU
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: @Yehuda on December 20, 2017, 11:06:56 PM
(Although I was happy when he got freed, it wouldn't be appropriate to celebrate, especially publicly)
You could have celebrated but then don't ask why does everyone hate us.  :)
Ok these I understand now. It would have been inappropriate to celebrate publicly.

Gimme a break. It's completely and utterly different.
I think my biggest obstacle in understanding this is my upbringing. Every day we prayed for Pollard. Was taught that what was happening to him wasn't right. When he was freed we didn't dance in the street since that's not something my community would do because #1 we don't have block after block of only frum Jews and #2 we don't dance in the street for anything other than Simchas Torah or dedicating a new Torah. Meanwhile, the Rubashkin story was not treated the same way, and I would say that was due to bias based on his sect of Judaism, unfortunately. I think I should read up on both stories more. Already been recommended to watch the Rubashkin TV show.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 20, 2017, 11:07:29 PM
Aren’t they by 14-43?
As of now,  this is the route of the bus.
I can keep you posted
The store is at 14x43
Their home is 15x55
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: @Yehuda on December 20, 2017, 11:08:40 PM
Ok boys it's time to call it a night. What a day b"h! Topped off with Shaps hitting 1M followers!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 11:10:38 PM
Ok boys it's time to call it a night. What a day b"h! Topped off with Shaps hitting 1M followers!
Nice!
https://twitter.com/benshapiro/followers
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 20, 2017, 11:11:25 PM
The store is at 14x43
Their home is 15x55

The traffic is building up
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: David Smith on December 20, 2017, 11:26:28 PM
Is there a bracha for this?
For the inmate ברוך הגומל לחייבים טובות, for everyone else ברוך מתיר אסורים.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 20, 2017, 11:28:18 PM
KolHaolam‏
@KolHaolam
 35s35 seconds ago

LAKEWOOD: Shalom Rubashkin expected to come to Lakewood tomorrow, Askanim working on large ballroom, BMG R’Y R’ Malkiel expected to speak.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 11:47:41 PM
The dancing going on in CH and BP looks amazing.
Mi ke'amcha yisrael!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 20, 2017, 11:49:09 PM
https://www.facebook.com/dpoltorak/videos/10154978609161712/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: stbaum on December 20, 2017, 11:49:44 PM
I dunno. If it was me that ch’v wasn’t home for 8 years, all I would want is a hot shower and a good night’s rest in my own bed. Is that just me??
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 20, 2017, 11:50:30 PM
I dunno. If it was me that ch’v wasn’t home for 8 years, all I would want is a hot shower and a good night’s rest in my own bed. Is that just me??
He’s very different :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: stbaum on December 20, 2017, 11:51:30 PM
He’s very different :)

How do you know the whole ‘to do’ is his choice? It’s very easy to get pulled in by the masses
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 20, 2017, 11:51:41 PM
He’s very different :)
I would hope so.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 20, 2017, 11:53:49 PM
The dancing going on in CH and BP looks amazing.
Mi ke'amcha yisrael!

I was there when he got to the house in Monsey. Was utterly surreal.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 20, 2017, 11:55:15 PM
How do you know the whole ‘to do’ is his choice? It’s very easy to get pulled in by the masses
He’s loving it. For the last 8 years he’s been living off peoples chizuk. The thousands of letters he’s gotten from children & he’s been responding to them. To the constant updates about the tzibur doing their hishtadlus. To all the visitors including Yeshiva boys. He’s very appreciative
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 20, 2017, 11:55:41 PM
I dunno. If it was me that ch’v wasn’t home for 8 years, all I would want is a hot shower and a good night’s rest in my own bed. Is that just me??
If it was able to wait 8 years, 1 day should make little difference.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jackofall on December 20, 2017, 11:57:29 PM
He’s very different :)
Don't know the man personally.  But some major major zechus he has. To create such an atmosphere of achdus......
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 12:03:47 AM
The dancing going on in CH and BP looks amazing.
Mi ke'amcha yisrael!
File that one under the pros and cons of where you live. My kids (other than 3 youngest) are safely out dancing (or watching) in 770.

I'd post some videos from 770, but not really equipped for it at the moment.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 21, 2017, 12:05:47 AM
File that one under the pros and cons of where you live. My kids (other than 3 youngest) are safely out dancing (or watching) in 770.
I want whatever the olam there has. :) been checking in every few hours, amazing energy. I like the Satmar chevra on the sidelines too.


ETA: 770live has a good stream
you can put this in the pros and cons of chabad if you want :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 21, 2017, 12:08:52 AM
Same goes for Satmar and down the line. Amazing achdus.

The Satmar people were the first to greet him outside of prison (0:23 mark)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 21, 2017, 12:10:45 AM
I want whatever the olam there has. :) been checking in every few hours, amazing energy. I like the Satmar chevra on the sidelines too.

Today, we are all one ^-^.

For some reason I keep on thinking of this quote:

"Don't be sorry, my dear sir, for nothing could upset me today! Rejoice, for You-Know-Who Rubashkin is gone back at last! Even muggles Satmerers like yourself should be celebrating this happy, happy day."
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 12:14:03 AM
It’s unreal. It’s midnight & little kids are standing on lampposts trying to catch a glimpse.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: stbaum on December 21, 2017, 12:18:07 AM
For some reason I keep on thinking of this quote:

"Don't be sorry, my dear sir, for nothing could upset me today! Rejoice, for You-Know-Who Rubashkin is gone back at last! Even muggles Satmerers like yourself should be celebrating this happy, happy day."

Lol
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
A porch reportedly collapsed in BP over there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 21, 2017, 12:20:50 AM
A porch reportedly collapsed in BP over there.

Was Monsey, and nothing happened to anyone as far as I could tell.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 12:21:23 AM
It’s unreal. It’s midnight & little kids are standing on lampposts trying to catch a glimpse.
Post pics/videos for those of us who aren't there or in 100 whatsapp groups :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:21:43 AM
Was Monsey, and nothing happened to anyone as far as I could tell.
My brother just sent me the info live on scene.

People killing themselves to touch him. Stampede!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: BP16 on December 21, 2017, 12:23:39 AM
Post pics/videos for those of us who aren't there or in 100 whatsapp groups :)
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1431130/watch-thousands-greet-sholom-rubashkin-as-he-arrives-in-boro-park-updated-1205am-et.html
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 21, 2017, 12:23:55 AM
My brother just sent me the info live on scene.

People killing themselves to touch him. Stampede!

I guess I saw something else then. Is there any crowd control going on there?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:27:56 AM
I guess I saw something else then. Is there any crowd control going on there?
The FB link Dan posted above shows Shomrim members over there, don't know the extent, though.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 12:29:14 AM
Hatzalah quite busy there. Not much crowd control
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:35:20 AM
DO anyone?  :P
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 21, 2017, 12:39:51 AM
A porch reportedly collapsed in BP over there.

Wow. Just saw a video of it. Supposedly multiple injuries.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 12:40:06 AM
DO anyone?  :P
In 770 now.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:41:16 AM
Wow. Just saw a video of it. Supposedly multiple injuries.
Link?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 12:41:42 AM
My brother just sent me the info live on scene.

People killing themselves to touch him. Stampede!
That's beyond me. I would like to hear him talk, and see the joy of the crowd upon his arrival, but touch him???

Let's not forget that we had a party scheduled for tonight in 770 even before this, it seems to have been preempted.

Sounds like he's arriving now.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 21, 2017, 12:41:43 AM
Link?

Whatsapp
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: stbaum on December 21, 2017, 12:44:31 AM
http://bit.ly/2zG8aVG
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Triple Canopy on December 21, 2017, 12:47:21 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:47:48 AM
He just arrived to 770. He's davening maariv for the amud.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 12:48:15 AM
;)
No way, this can't be good
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 21, 2017, 12:49:31 AM
In 770 now.
Is that you?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:49:37 AM
That's beyond me. I would like to hear him talk, and see the joy of the crowd upon his arrival, but touch him???

Let's not forget that we had a party scheduled for tonight in 770 even before this, it seems to have been preempted.

Sounds like he's arriving now.
Occasion?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 12:54:49 AM
Was it him just making shehechyanu b'shem umalchus?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 12:58:38 AM
Occasion?
זאת חנוכה
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 21, 2017, 12:59:13 AM
shecheyanu and yomim noraim nusach are interesting, curious for explanation?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 21, 2017, 01:03:15 AM
shecheyanu and yomim noraim nusach are interesting, curious for explanation?

People are on high spirits
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: precise on December 21, 2017, 01:04:07 AM
זאת חנוכה
Is the sun still shining in crown heights  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 01:05:18 AM
Is the sun still shining in crown heights  :)
The sun never sets in Lubavitch.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 21, 2017, 01:05:33 AM
People are on high spirits
I guess we all have our own idea of fun :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:07:02 AM
I guess we all have our own idea of fun :)
Fun???  :o
Spontaneous celebration! Overtaken by emotion!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ar on December 21, 2017, 01:12:40 AM
Watching 770live.com
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:14:35 AM
WOW!!! JUST WOW!!!
He's on a high! Doesn't look exhausted at all!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:16:30 AM
Not to be sticky or create popcorn in any way, but was there ever a single individual celebrated like this in 770 since the Rebbe's petirah?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: precise on December 21, 2017, 01:19:49 AM
Watching 770live.com
Is it fully down or just by me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:20:22 AM
Is it fully down or just by me?
Working great on my end.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 01:21:11 AM
Working great on my end.
+1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 21, 2017, 01:21:50 AM
I hope he makes it out alive from 770...  :o
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 21, 2017, 01:22:13 AM
I hope he makes it out alive from 770...  :o
+10000
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 01:23:22 AM
Watching 770live.com
There's always what to watch on 770live.com not just today.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 01:26:31 AM
I hope he makes it out alive from 770...  :o
And I thought we could finally cross him off our tehillim lists....
Hashem Yerachem, get him outta there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:28:54 AM
I hope he makes it out alive from 770...  :o
+10000
And I thought we could finally cross him off our tehillim lists....
Hashem Yerachem, get him outta there.
Crowd control over there essentially insignificant. As much as they try.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 01:29:29 AM
I hope he makes it out alive from 770...  :o
Was just going to post about M.H. being crushed on 2nd day of Sukkos 5753, and then having תחיית המתים כפשוטו, and I look up and see the בעל המעשה in front of me. Should have been posting something about Moshiach.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:30:49 AM
Was just going to post about M.H. being crushed on 2nd day of Sukkos 5753, and then having תחיית המתים כפשוטו, and I look up and see the בעל המעשה in front of me. Should have been posting something about Moshiach.
Well half the time you have his flag obscuring the camera  ::)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 01:32:12 AM
They got it under control now, BH.
Good night. May we wake up to the shofar of moshiach!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 01:32:45 AM
Poor kid! Give'm a chance to tuck his pants in!  :o
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ar on December 21, 2017, 01:35:15 AM
He's the most selfless person I've ever seen. No words
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 01:41:14 AM
They got it under control now, BH.
Good night. May we wake up to the shofar of moshiach!
What we experienced today is a מעין דמעין דמעין of what we will soon experience, totally unexpected and unannounced, the Geulah is going to be here (and everyone will come rushing to 770, which will be bursting at the seams).
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 21, 2017, 01:41:35 AM
Fun???  :o
Spontaneous celebration! Overtaken by emotion!!
I get that. doesn't usually inspire Yomim Noraim nusach. but nice to watch.
Is there a video of the 770 speech? couldn't turn on audio just then
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 01:43:53 AM
I get that. doesn't usually inspire Yomim Noraim nusach. but nice to watch.
Is there a video of the 770 speech? couldn't turn on audio just then
All over whatsapp.

When you understand and experience Yomim Noraim as it is done in 770, you'll understand the inspiration.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 21, 2017, 01:43:58 AM
and everyone will come rushing to 770
What for?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 01:44:46 AM
What for?
Why did they come today to 770?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 21, 2017, 01:49:23 AM
and everyone will come rushing to 770
My Question is:
What does 770 have to do with Moshiach??
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
My Question is:
What does 770 have to do with Moshiach??
It's just a convenient big room
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:01:14 AM
My Question is:
What does 770 have to do with Moshiach??
בית משיח gematria 770
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 21, 2017, 02:06:15 AM
It's just a convenient big room
Wedding halls are bigger  ::)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 02:07:20 AM
Wedding halls are bigger  ::)
So I guess it won't be 770
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: precise on December 21, 2017, 02:08:28 AM
The sun never sets in Lubavitch.
I guess once a month you take the subway to Williamsburg for kiddish levunah!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yammer on December 21, 2017, 02:14:23 AM
B"H I was able to participate with my kids in one of the events. Amazing to see how 1 persons story has such an effect on so many ppl.

מי כעמך ישראל!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:15:17 AM
I guess once a month you take the subway to Williamsburg for kiddish levunah!
What subway map are you looking at?

I don't know anyone that would take a subway from Crown Heights to Williamsburg. It's probably faster to walk.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 02:16:25 AM
What subway map are you looking at?

I don't know anyone that would take a subway from Crown Heights to Williamsburg. It's probably faster to walk.
He's prob from the west coast or something.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 21, 2017, 02:17:09 AM
Wow. SMR is still there now.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 02:17:56 AM
Wow. SMR is still there now.
Did you touch him?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: precise on December 21, 2017, 02:18:29 AM
What subway map are you looking at?

I don't know anyone that would take a subway from Crown Heights to Williamsburg. It's probably faster to walk.
I was taught it's Worlds apart....
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:18:42 AM
Wow. SMR is still there now.
As he mentioned in his speech. He is at home now.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:20:08 AM
I was taught it's Worlds apart....
Sounds like your teacher might have had something in common with יואב בן צרויה's teacher. I would be scared for my life if I were that person.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 21, 2017, 02:21:46 AM
As he mentioned in his speech. He is at home now.
Where Can I hear his speech?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 02:22:52 AM
I was taught it's Worlds apart....
In those terms a flight may not even do.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 02:22:58 AM
He's going as strong as ever! (As strong as he was in prison??)
Unbelievable!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:23:54 AM
Where Can I hear his speech?

All over whatsapp.

When you understand and experience Yomim Noraim as it is done in 770, you'll understand the inspiration.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:34:52 AM
In those terms a flight may not even do.
Don't think these guys needed a flight to come over

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 21, 2017, 02:35:46 AM
Wow. Just saw a video of it. Supposedly multiple injuries.
Seems like it happened in Monsey + again in BP
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 21, 2017, 02:39:50 AM
This man has an insane amount of energy / euphoria / love of people.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 02:40:02 AM


Don't think these guys needed a flight to come over




In this sense, you need more then a flight.
I was taught it's Worlds apart....

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 02:40:59 AM
Lakewood tomorrow night 8:30 pm at lake terrace.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 02:49:35 AM
This ואני אבטח בך is just so pure! Unreal.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: David Smith on December 21, 2017, 02:50:16 AM
Quite ironic that Rubashkin and Arpaio are the two people Trump pardoned.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 02:52:35 AM
Quite ironic that Rubashkin and Arpaio are the two people Trump pardoned.
What are you at?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: David Smith on December 21, 2017, 02:55:42 AM
What are you at?
Rubashkin was a commutation of a travesty of justice, while Arpaio was a perpetuation of that. Arpaio stood for everything that was wrong with the Rubashkin case.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 02:58:32 AM
Rubashkin was a commutation of a travesty of justice, while Arpaio was a perpetuation of that. Arpaio stood for everything that was wrong with the Rubashkin case.
Arpaio was at everything with immigration, of which SMR was cleared, no?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: David Smith on December 21, 2017, 03:09:59 AM
Arpaio was at everything with immigration, of which SMR was cleared, no?
Arpaio was a hater of non white Americans. Rubashkin was not.

Rubashkin's conviction was a terrible case of unjust sentencing and miscarriage of the criminal justice system. Arpaio was king of unjust sentencing and human rights violations through the prosecution department.

One of the most inappropriate parts of the Rubashkin case was Reade and her abuse of her power to pursue a personally agenda, something Arpaio epitomized.

Ect ect.

The Rubashkin case and Arpaio case are about as polar opposites as can be.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: happinessNsunshine on December 21, 2017, 03:39:03 AM
Bus with SMR on the way to the ohel now
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 08:25:51 AM
;)
uch
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 21, 2017, 09:32:41 AM
Arpaio was a hater of non white Americans. Rubashkin was not.
....
....
The Rubashkin case and Arpaio case are about as polar opposites as can be.

at least this juxtaposition won't look like Trump is 'only' caring for the Jews. Therefore less of a chance at too much anti-Semitism at SMR release, hopefully. Between the new passing of the tax law and the New Year holidays, hopefully many of the haters and biased journalists will be away on vacation....   8)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 21, 2017, 09:34:41 AM
uch
Yesterday's Tanya spoke about "זה לעומת זה עשה אלוקים" - whenever something good happens, there's always a gematriya.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
If it was able to wait 8 years, 1 day should make little difference.
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/4f03b14c6efb73a1a47c08f198428742.png)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: stbaum on December 21, 2017, 09:52:26 AM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/4f03b14c6efb73a1a47c08f198428742.png)
Care to explain for us that can’t read/understand a word of that?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on December 21, 2017, 10:00:06 AM
Care to explain for us that can’t read/understand a word of that?
Quote
the Gemara offers a parable to one who was incarcerated in prison, and people would say to him: We promise, we will release you tomorrow and give you much money. He says to them: I beseech you, release me today and I ask for nothing.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: meme on December 21, 2017, 10:17:33 AM
Lakewood tomorrow night 8:30 pm at lake terrace.
Cancelled/Delayed to next week
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 21, 2017, 10:28:03 AM


Although the Torah is everlasting, things were different back then. Prison could mean certain death, especially for a Jew. This is the reason we bench gomel.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 10:39:37 AM
Care to explain for us that can’t read/understand a word of that?
sorry bou that.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 21, 2017, 11:11:59 AM
Not to be sticky or create popcorn in any way, but was there ever a single individual celebrated like this in 770 since the Rebbe's petirah?

this is not a celebration of an individual. This is a celebration of an outright anti-semitic trial and 27 year decree that would never have had to happen if not for a raid on which no charges or convictions of illegal/underage immigrants occurred as a result. The celebration is the "Padah B'SHalom" (peaceful liberation) as SMR explained last night, was without fighting or forcing. A commutation from the president via legal . Therefore it is a community and world-wide Jewish celebration, including the last day of chanukah and going into the Hei Teves celebration in honor of the fact that the legal gov't entities recognized that the specialized Chabad seforim belong to the Chassidim as a whole, and not to individual family members.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chaimmayer on December 21, 2017, 11:17:41 AM
Today, we are all one ^-^
Not to SF in particular but the general sentiment.  B"H the achdus was there the whole time.  The misnagdim advocated for him, visited him, wrote letters etc. 
the achdus started over 8 years ago in this one.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:20:04 AM
This is a celebration of an outright anti-semitic trial and 27 year decree that would never have had to happen if not for a raid on which no charges or convictions of illegal/underage immigrants occurred as a result.
Rejoice in his release and stop trying to rewrite history.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 21, 2017, 11:40:02 AM
Rejoice in his release and stop trying to rewrite history.

the fact is that removing 380+ employees from one's packing plant via Obama-gov't paid bussing (May 2008) would crash any business for eternity.

Any owner would have closed up shop immediately. There would be no point in trying to recover. However he tried very hard to keep things running as smoothly as possible.

In addition to tons of meat and food that the community would not have, he also built up local schools, apartment buildings, and many Postville business ventures. Therefore he tried to fix the impossible re-building as best as he could financially in order to keep everyone afloat: http://qctimes.com/news/local/a-year-after-agriprocessors-raid-postville-still-struggles/article_ca5b36ba-3d0d-11de-a14b-001cc4c03286.html
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:44:47 AM
the fact is that removing 380+ employees from one's packing plant via Obama-gov't paid bussing (May 2008) would crash any business for eternity.

Any owner would have closed up shop immediately. There would be no point in trying to recover. However he tried very hard to keep things running as smoothly as possible.

In addition to tons of meat and food that the community would not have, he also built up local schools, apartment buildings, and many Postville business ventures. Therefore he tried to fix the impossible re-building as best as he could financially in order to keep everyone afloat: http://qctimes.com/news/local/a-year-after-agriprocessors-raid-postville-still-struggles/article_ca5b36ba-3d0d-11de-a14b-001cc4c03286.html
I have nothing against this individual and believe all the great things said here about him. You playing the anti-Semite card is totally unfair. All the way up to and including the supreme court they agreed with the outcome.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 21, 2017, 11:51:42 AM
I have nothing against this individual and believe all the great things said here about him. You playing the anti-Semite card is totally unfair. All the way up to and including the supreme court they agreed with the outcome.

The Supreme court didn’t agree nor disagree. They simply didn’t take the case. There were much more attention-grabbing cases on the docket at the time.

This was a sticky situation. Overruling a federal judge has implications on the Judicial system whether or not the judge is corrupt.

Iowa in particular is a state in play for both Republicans and Democrats. Nobody wants to piss people off there. From what I understand, it took a LOT of convincing to get Trump to do this.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 11:57:56 AM
If you believe that people are sentenced unjustly, put your money where your mouth is an advocate on behalf of even 1 person serving an unjust amount of time for a non-violent drug offence. Here's a good place to start: https://www.alternet.org/drugs/15-people-rotting-prison-life-drug-crimes-didnt-hurt-anybody
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 21, 2017, 12:29:55 PM
If you believe that people are sentenced unjustly, put your money where your mouth is an advocate on behalf of even 1 person serving an unjust amount of time for a non-violent drug offence. Here's a good place to start: https://www.alternet.org/drugs/15-people-rotting-prison-life-drug-crimes-didnt-hurt-anybody

I'm not sure I understand the logic to this "all or nothing" approach. Frankly, it sounds very bitter.

When your family celebrates your birthday, do you demand that they celebrate everyone in the world who has a birthday on the same day? Maybe we shouldn't celebrate engagement parties and weddings because your friends are caught up in the shidduch crisis?

This is a man that gave a tremendous amount to Jewish establishments around the world with an open heart. Nobody that knows him well has a bad word to say about him. He was given an unjust sentence and they felt the need to advocate on his behalf and did so for years and years to no avail. He finally got out and they are celebrating.

Sure, other people have been unjustly imprisoned, but why and how does that affect this story?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 12:32:51 PM
I'm not sure I understand the logic to this "all or nothing" approach.
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 12:37:04 PM
If you believe that people are sentenced unjustly, put your money where your mouth is an advocate on behalf of even 1 person serving an unjust amount of time for a non-violent drug offence. Here's a good place to start: https://www.alternet.org/drugs/15-people-rotting-prison-life-drug-crimes-didnt-hurt-anybody
Three strikes laws are the cause of most of these. If SCOTUS could rule them unconstitutional that would solve this issue. However, drug crimes are not victimless. If your kid was the buyer on the other side of most of these $20 transactions you would have an issue with it. So please spare us the phony advocacy. When you stand up at a kiddush the next time you see an underage kid drinking or a teenager smoking pot then I'll buy in.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 12:37:57 PM
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.
I’m sure their communities are rallying behind them & doing everything possible to free them.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 12:39:57 PM
First thing when I awoke was to check this thread just to make sure it wasn’t all a dream. :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 12:43:48 PM
And what about the families on the other side of the Rubashkin fraud?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mgarfin on December 21, 2017, 12:44:11 PM
As I have never seen this story and keeps on coming up in feeds I'm sharing it here

http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/08/a-federal-judge-put-hundreds-of-immigrants-behind-bars-while-her-husband-invested-in-private-prisons/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 21, 2017, 12:45:30 PM
I will take a wild guess that is addressing the elephant in the room.

I'm not sure I understand.

This reminds me of the time Dan posted about the man who was saved from MH380 because he chose not to fly on Shabbos and people were angered that he should not be celebrating because of the other passengers who died on the flight.

You can celebrate your miracle and mourn another's loss. They don't contradict one another.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zale on December 21, 2017, 12:48:25 PM
And what about the families on the other side of the Rubashkin fraud?

You mean the people who were put out of a job because the Feds showed up with the third infantry and the first airborne division to the meat plant to round everyone up and destroy the company?

You mean the people who were put out of a job because the prosecutors purposely didn't allow any family members to buy AGRI?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 12:51:00 PM
Nobody forced anyone to hire hundreds of illegals and nobody forced him to take out a loan fraudulently to cover it up.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 12:52:57 PM
Obviously his sentence was crazy long but so are the sentences of literally THOUSANDS of people
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
Nobody forced anyone to hire hundreds of illegals Source?and nobody forced him to take out a loan fraudulently to cover it upSource.
Stop making up facts that never happened. He was exonerated on the immigrant hiring charges and he never took out a loan to cover up anything other than operating expenses. His crime was overstating income. His punishment was 1 year per million the bank the bank allegedly lost.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dawie on December 21, 2017, 12:56:32 PM
I'll post what an esteemed colleague of mine wrote to someone sharing your sentiments. Read it carefully: To the sadly misguided fellow Jew who just PM’d me to share his “profound disgust” at my sharing Facebook posts expressing “delight” in Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin’s wondrous release in the final (and most powerful) miraculous moments of Chanukah:

I am choosing to post a response publicly in the event that there are others thinking and feeling like you at this moment:

Nobody I know believes that “bank fraud is a Mitzvah,” and frankly your making blanket statements about “Hareidi Jews commonly justifying white collar crime by cloaking it in a Talit of frum-piety” is anti-Semitic (yes, a Jew who passes judgement on a wide swath of other Jews who might act or dress differently then them is also guilty of the same abhorrent form of racism).

To be sure, Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin is not a saint and has definitely made some serious mistakes along the way. He is not alone. We have all made mistakes in life. And yes, it’s also true that some people’s mistakes might be bigger than others.

Yet your gleeful willingness to brand him a nefarious convict, stands in sharp and shameful contrast to your self-identifying as “accepting and non-judgemental.”

To be so harshly critical of his errors, yet so accepting of others’ behaviour smacks of incredible (and may I add egregious) hypocrisy.

I wholeheartedly agree that none should be “above the law.” Defrauding financial institutions, cheating on income tax or illegally obtaining government funding is a crime. It is fair to say that those who break the law, deserve to be dealt with accordingly.

HOWEVER, a 27 year sentence for bank fraud cannot be justified. That was nothing less than a Dryfuseque display of horribly outrageous anti-Semitism in 21st century America.

The Frum community did not “broadcast tacit approval of criminality” it expressed a beautiful wave of solidarity with a Yid who was unjustly and harshly mistreated for the simple reason that he was (visibly) Jewish.

Quite frankly, to me it was painful (and in fact shocking) that the rest of Am Yisrael didn’t care and instead chose to conveniently look away for the past 8 long years...

The tsunami of joy that you are now seeing flood the web and social media is a remarkable outpouring of Torah-true solidarity and the sincere brotherhood and kinship that should always be felt amongst ALL Yidden.

You are presently witnessing the truest meaning of Ahavat Yisrael, as thousands delight and rejoice in the redemption of a fellow Yid who was unfairly treated just because he was Jewish.

Be inspired by it. Or at least wish you could feel it.

I am not ashamed to admit that I cried upon hearing the news. Not because Shalom Mordechai is my friend. I don’t really know him personally. But because, along with tens-of-thousands of others, I am privileged to feel a familial bond with a fellow Yid.

All I can say is that I wish you could feel it too...

If he was your terrestrial brother, you’d innately overlook his shortcomings and be happy for him tonight... that is the essential meaning of the Mitzvah of Ahavat Yisrael. Self-love blinds us to our own faults, love of our fellow should blind us to their faults as well!!

I pray that Hashem opens your heart and fills it with love... and may the beautiful Achdut Yisrael now sweeping the globe serve as the final catalyst for the arrival of our long awaited redemption through the righteous Moshiach, speedily and in our days, amen! Rabbi Mendel Kaplan
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 12:56:59 PM
Obviously his sentence was crazy long but so are the sentences of literally THOUSANDS of people
You are comparing career criminals to a first time white collar offender. Who close to you got a raw deal that you cant stand to see that this miracle happened? You sound like you have way too much at stake here.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dawie on December 21, 2017, 12:58:28 PM
another from Rabbi YY Schochet
Can you think of another case where 107 different justice personnel weighed in? Can you think as to why? Did you not celebrate when Jonathan Pollard was freed? Is this a case of double standards or just being ill-informed? Have a read: 107 former Justice officials think this case was handled unjustly. DOJ must act.
Philip B. Heymann is a former deputy attorney general under President Bill Clinton and assistant attorney general under President Jimmy Carter. He is the James Barr Ames professor of law emeritus at Harvard University Law School.
Last week, President Obama granted clemency to 153 individuals who had been incarcerated under mandatory minimum drug-sentencing laws, bringing to more than 1,100 the number of clemency petitions the administration has granted. “You don’t just try to hammer everybody for as long as you can, because you can,” Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates told the New York Times.
That is the right attitude for someone tasked with the fair administration of justice. Unfortunately, Yates and Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch have, for the past year, rebuffed efforts by me and many other former senior Justice Department officials to even discuss another prosecution in which justice fell far short: the case of Sholom Rubashkin, a Brooklyn-born rabbi who was sentenced to 27 years for bank fraud.
Rubashkin, a 57-year-old father of 10, has already served seven years for the crime, which ordinarily merits no more than three years. Worse, his sentence was based on perjured testimony and prosecutorial misconduct.
If even a few highly respected prosecutors think a particular case was handled unjustly, resulting in a vastly excessive sentence, the department’s representatives should be prepared at least to discuss the reasons. In Rubashkin’s case, 107 former Justice Department officials, including five former attorneys general, six former deputy attorneys general (myself included), two former FBI directors, 30 former federal judges and other leading jurists, have sought to meet with senior officials of the department we once served. The only response: a form letter from an assistant attorney general stating that no meeting could take place while Rubashkin was also pursuing his case in court.
Meanwhile, Kevin Techau, the U.S. attorney in Iowa (where Rubashkin was prosecuted), has suggested that Rubashkin used his financial resources to buy the support of so many prominent justice officials. Not only has Rubashkin lost everything he owned in this case, his wife and children now depend heavily on the support of their community for their needs. Moreover, all 107 of us are working on this pro bono. Among other things, former deputy attorneys general Larry Thompson, Charles Renfrew and I have traveled to distant meetings and volunteered considerable time to this matter, all on our own nickel.
The facts are clear: Rubashkin was vice president of Agriprocessors, a kosher meatpacking plant based in Postville, Iowa. In May 2008, more than 500 federal immigration agents raided the plant and arrested hundreds of undocumented workers. The raid resulted in the company declaring bankruptcy. Rubashkin was arrested a short time later and charged with bank fraud.
And this is where things went terribly wrong. The sentence for bank fraud depends on the amount of the loss to creditors. In this case, the prosecution deliberately increased the amount of the loss — and thus the length of Rubashkin’s sentence.
Independent assessors had valued Agriprocessors’ assets at $68 million. Yet evidence uncovered after the sentencing showed that prosecutors interfered in the bankruptcy proceedings, threatening nine prospective buyers of the business that the company’s assets would be seized by the government if any member of the Rubashkin family stayed active in the firm after the bankruptcy sale. No other relative has ever been charged by these prosecutors. Aaron Rubashkin, the founder and family patriarch, was critical to the company’s value. Brands such as Aaron’s Best were built on his name. He possessed the institutional knowledge and connections throughout the kosher meat-processing business. By effectively removing Aaron Rubashkin, prosecutors destroyed the company’s value.
All nine prospective investors — including one who offered $40 million — walked away from the sale. Agriprocessors then sold for $8.5 million, resulting in a huge loss to creditors and what is essentially a life sentence for Sholom Rubashkin.
In an effort to cover their tracks, prosecutors denied at Rubashkin’s sentencing that they had interfered in the bankruptcy-sale process. The prosecutors knew that the bank, the victim whose collateral was at stake, was upset with their interference. Legal counsel for the bank sent prosecutors a letter complaining about their actions. However, prosecutors failed to provide that letter as well as other evidence to Rubashkin’s defense team.
Instead, prosecutors offered testimony to support their claims that there was no interference with prospective buyers. But handwritten notes, recently discovered by Rubashkin’s attorneys, prove there was a meeting at which the prosecutors imposed their “No Rubashkins” edict. In determining the amount of the loss to creditors, the sentencing judge explicitly relied on this counsel’s false testimony. Prosecutors were present, but no prosecutor pointed out the falsity to the judge, who explicitly stated her reliance on it.
I am saddened by the unwillingness of the department’s senior leaders to even discuss the injustice that more than 100 of their predecessors and former judges find evident in the Rubashkin case. Experienced former prosecutors and career Justice Department officials view this case as a stain on an institution created to uphold the law. If the department’s leadership refuses to act, I hope President Obama pardons Rubashkin and ends this tragedy. The alternative is a display of either blind self-righteousness or frightened defensiveness that is inconsistent with the Justice Department we all have served and respected.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 12:59:17 PM
I'll post what an esteemed colleague of mine wrote to someone sharing your sentiments. Read it carefully: To the sadly misguided fellow Jew who just PM’d me to share his “profound disgust” at my sharing Facebook posts expressing “delight” in Shalom Mordechai Rubashkin’s wondrous release in the final (and most powerful) miraculous moments of Chanukah:

I am choosing to post a response publicly in the event that there are others thinking and feeling like you at this moment:

Nobody I know believes that “bank fraud is a Mitzvah,” and frankly your making blanket statements about “Hareidi Jews commonly justifying white collar crime by cloaking it in a Talit of frum-piety” is anti-Semitic (yes, a Jew who passes judgement on a wide swath of other Jews who might act or dress differently then them is also guilty of the same abhorrent form of racism).

To be sure, Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin is not a saint and has definitely made some serious mistakes along the way. He is not alone. We have all made mistakes in life. And yes, it’s also true that some people’s mistakes might be bigger than others.

Yet your gleeful willingness to brand him a nefarious convict, stands in sharp and shameful contrast to your self-identifying as “accepting and non-judgemental.”

To be so harshly critical of his errors, yet so accepting of others’ behaviour smacks of incredible (and may I add egregious) hypocrisy.

I wholeheartedly agree that none should be “above the law.” Defrauding financial institutions, cheating on income tax or illegally obtaining government funding is a crime. It is fair to say that those who break the law, deserve to be dealt with accordingly.

HOWEVER, a 27 year sentence for bank fraud cannot be justified. That was nothing less than a Dryfuseque display of horribly outrageous anti-Semitism in 21st century America.

The Frum community did not “broadcast tacit approval of criminality” it expressed a beautiful wave of solidarity with a Yid who was unjustly and harshly mistreated for the simple reason that he was (visibly) Jewish.

Quite frankly, to me it was painful (and in fact shocking) that the rest of Am Yisrael didn’t care and instead chose to conveniently look away for the past 8 long years...

The tsunami of joy that you are now seeing flood the web and social media is a remarkable outpouring of Torah-true solidarity and the sincere brotherhood and kinship that should always be felt amongst ALL Yidden.

You are presently witnessing the truest meaning of Ahavat Yisrael, as thousands delight and rejoice in the redemption of a fellow Yid who was unfairly treated just because he was Jewish.

Be inspired by it. Or at least wish you could feel it.

I am not ashamed to admit that I cried upon hearing the news. Not because Shalom Mordechai is my friend. I don’t really know him personally. But because, along with tens-of-thousands of others, I am privileged to feel a familial bond with a fellow Yid.

All I can say is that I wish you could feel it too...

If he was your terrestrial brother, you’d innately overlook his shortcomings and be happy for him tonight... that is the essential meaning of the Mitzvah of Ahavat Yisrael. Self-love blinds us to our own faults, love of our fellow should blind us to their faults as well!!

I pray that Hashem opens your heart and fills it with love... and may the beautiful Achdut Yisrael now sweeping the globe serve as the final catalyst for the arrival of our long awaited redemption through the righteous Moshiach, speedily and in our days, amen! Rabbi Mendel Kaplan
Wow!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 01:02:45 PM
You are comparing career criminals to a first time white collar offender. Who close to you got a raw deal that you cant stand to see that this miracle happened? You sound like you have way too much at stake here.

Are you honestly saying Rubashkin was less of a career criminal than someone who got caught with an oz of pot a couple of times, and maybe tried to sell it? Convicted or not, Rubashkin was running an operation with scores of labor and immigration problems for years.

I have literally nothing at stake but to point out a hypocrisy that I'm seeing that anyone who's a goy and was sentenced to life in prison is a "career criminal" but if its a Yid then its antisemitism. At least people should acknowledge that there is widespread problem in the judicial system and Rubashkin is one of many victim. 

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 01:04:56 PM
He literally became a family member to all of Klal Yisroel, an uncle to all yiddishe kinderlach.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 01:06:35 PM
At least people should acknowledge that there is widespread problem in the judicial system
Have you been under a rock the last few months ? This has been discussed over & over again ad nauseam.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 01:11:45 PM
Are you honestly saying Rubashkin was less of a career criminal than someone who got caught with an oz of pot a couple of times, and maybe tried to sell it? Convicted or not, Rubashkin was running an operation with scores of labor and immigration problems for years.

I have literally nothing at stake but to point out a hypocrisy that I'm seeing that anyone who's a goy and was sentenced to life in prison is a "career criminal" but if its a Yid then its antisemitism. At least people should acknowledge that there is widespread problem in the judicial system and Rubashkin is one of many victim.
"someone who got caught with an oz of pot a couple of times, and maybe tried to sell it" Right. They only got caught a few times. For every time they didnt get caught...They're career criminals. How many times does one have to get caught to be considered a career criminal? 10? 20? 100?

Life in prison because of three-strikes laws is abominable. But you have to draw the line somewhere. Where do you draw it? That is the struggle each state legislature has to deal with. The sentencing guidelines in NY, which does not have a three strikes law gets Draconian for multiple offenses. If someone was caught selling x amount of drugs multiple times they can get indeterminate sentences such as 6 to Life. Is that wrong?

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 01:14:50 PM
Stop making up facts that never happened. He was exonerated on the immigrant hiring charges...
Not accurate. The Feds dropped the immigration charges after he was convicted of 86 counts.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 21, 2017, 01:22:08 PM
https://www.justice.gov/file/1019776/download
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 01:25:37 PM
https://www.justice.gov/file/1019776/download
Pretty cool. Never seen one of those.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 01:53:22 PM
Not accurate. The Feds dropped the immigration charges after he was convicted of 86 counts.
Also, it is empirical fact that he was the head of a company that had violations even if he wasn't personally guilty.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 02:04:05 PM
Also, it is empirical fact that he was the head of a company that had violations even if he wasn't personally guilty.

To quote one of my DW's sayings: If you have nothing nice to say, just don't say anything.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 03:04:46 PM
Also, it is empirical fact that he was the head of a company that had violations even if he wasn't personally guilty.
Guilt by association that's a chargeable offense I guess
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:08:02 PM
Serves no useful purpose to try and retry the case.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 03:19:28 PM
Are you honestly saying Rubashkin was less of a career criminal than someone who got caught with an oz of pot a couple of times, and maybe tried to sell it? Convicted or not, Rubashkin was running an operation with scores of labor and immigration problems for years.

I have literally nothing at stake but to point out a hypocrisy that I'm seeing that anyone who's a goy and was sentenced to life in prison is a "career criminal" but if its a Yid then its antisemitism. At least people should acknowledge that there is widespread problem in the judicial system and Rubashkin is one of many victim.
Everyone agrees that there's need for Judicial reform. There's bipartisan support for it. And there is a great need to bring more awareness to the issue.

(BTW, there is much evidence that the Govt actually caused the crime to be commited, and forced him into bankruptcy in order to have a bank fraud conviction.)

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 03:24:42 PM
Everyone agrees that there's need for Judicial reform. There's bipartisan support lip servicefor it. And there is a great need to bring more awareness to the issue.

(BTW, there is much evidence that the Govt actually caused the crime to be commited, and forced him into bankruptcy in order to have a bank fraud conviction.)
FTFY
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:25:52 PM
(BTW, there is much evidence that the Govt actually caused the crime to be commited, and forced him into bankruptcy in order to have a bank fraud conviction.)
Please stop.
Serves no useful purpose to try and retry the case.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chevron on December 21, 2017, 03:26:01 PM
Stupid brainwashed bochurim etc will buy that the case was anti semitec, yes PETA did target agri.

But its awesome he was released, but this wasnt a war on jews etc
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 21, 2017, 03:29:11 PM
Pls post links to good recordings of the songs.  Pls include vaani evtach bach, didan natzach.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 21, 2017, 03:30:12 PM
Not accurate. The Feds dropped the immigration charges after he was convicted of 86 counts.

Liberals: Everyone illegal should be allowed to stay, and get govt benefits, and bring their family.  But, lock up anyone who employs them.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:32:03 PM
Liberals: Everyone illegal should be allowed to stay, and get govt benefits, and bring their family.  But, lock up anyone who employs them.
Independents: Lock up illegals and those that employ them!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on December 21, 2017, 03:35:36 PM
Not accurate. The Feds dropped the immigration charges after he was convicted of 86 counts.
#fakenews. He was ACQUITTED of the 86 counts. He was only convicted of the federal bank fraud charges.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:37:43 PM
#fakenews. He was ACQUITTED of the 86 counts. He was only convicted of the federal bank fraud charges.
Do you really want to do this?

Rubashkin was convicted in November 2009 on 86 charges of financial fraud, including bank fraud, mail and wire fraud and money laundering.
Immigration trial was dismiss without prejudice.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 03:38:20 PM
Liberals: Everyone illegal should be allowed to stay, and get govt benefits, and bring their family.  But, lock up anyone who employs them.
Naturally. They need them to be reliant on government. Otherwise they lose the votes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on December 21, 2017, 03:40:01 PM
Liberals: Everyone illegal should be allowed to stay, and get govt benefits, and bring their family.  But, lock up anyone who employs them.

This is 100% accurate.
@shaulyaakov has absolutely no idea how hiring works in the real world.
If the person has valid documents, you have to hire them even if you know in your heart of hearts that they're illegal.
Otherwise you get sued for discrimination. And trust me they all find a way to get valid docs.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:44:06 PM
The counts he was convicted on were NOT the immigration charges that he was originally charged with. He WAS acquitted on those charges. He was in jail solely bc of the money and bank charges.
He was not acquitted of federal immigration charges. Please get your facts right.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on December 21, 2017, 03:44:58 PM
He was exonerated on the immigrant hiring charges

Not accurate. The Feds dropped the immigration charges after he was convicted of 86 counts.

Do you really want to do this?

Rubashkin was convicted in November 2009 on 86 charges of financial fraud, including bank fraud, mail and wire fraud and money laundering.
Immigration trial was dismiss without prejudice.

What exactly are you trying to argue?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
What exactly are you trying to argue?
I am not arguing anything. Just getting the facts straight.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 21, 2017, 03:48:39 PM
This is 100% accurate.
@shaulyaakov has absolutely no idea how hiring works in the real world.
If the person has valid documents, you have to hire them even if you know in your heart of hearts that they're illegal.
Otherwise you get sued for discrimination. And trust me they all find a way to get valid docs.
And there were plenty of instances where underage employees (who had lied about their age) who were fired when proof came to light. Same thing for illegals.

This American Life just did a 2 part series on immigration and poultry plants in Alabama. It is practically impossible for these plants to not hire illegals or underage workers.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Lamppost on December 21, 2017, 03:50:19 PM
He was not acquitted of federal immigration charges. Please get your facts right.
You are right he was acquitted on child labor. But even with the immigration you know that had the government had straws to grasp on he would have been charged with something. The fact that they threw it out and jailed him on something totally separate that only arose through the raid makes it look like the whole thing was just for Linda Reade to save face over a raid that she was involved in orchestrating. 
Regardless 27 years was totally ridiculous. You know hat the whole thing was an egregious miscarriage of justice.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on December 21, 2017, 03:54:48 PM
I am not arguing anything. Just getting the facts straight.

They dropped the immigration charges.
Which means either the court system doesn't believe in justice or they didn't believe he was guilty of those charges.
Given their desire to throw the book at him I'd have to assume the latter.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 03:58:04 PM
FTFY
True.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Brian93 on December 21, 2017, 03:59:34 PM
https://www.justice.gov/file/1019776/download
It's a good thing they're keeping tabs on those $0.51
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 03:59:54 PM
They dropped the immigration charges.
Which means either the court system doesn't believe in justice or they didn't believe he was guilty of those charges.
Given their desire to throw the book at him I'd have to assume the latter.
He was already found guilty of 86 counts. There was no reason to go forward with the immigration charges that would not result in more time. This is done all the time. That does not mean he was exonerated of the charges. Now if they dismissed with prejudice then you would be correct.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 04:01:18 PM
@ChaimMoskowitz many members here have spent hours upon hours studying this case.

How many minutes have you looked into it that you feel you're qualified to comment on it?

Study the case, and maybe you'll agree with a bunch of former AGs, and Nancy Pelocy, and Orin Hatch etc.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:05:29 PM
@ChaimMoskowitz many members here have spent hours upon hours studying this case.

How many minutes have you looked into it that you feel you're qualified to comment on it?

Study the case, and maybe you'll agree with a bunch of former AGs, and Nancy Pelocy, and Orin Hatch etc.
I am just looking at the facts. I am not passing judgement on the individual. Members are saying things that are factually wrong.

I enjoyed reading this thread. I watched the videos of all the celebrating. It is unbelievable the love shown for this individual.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Lamppost on December 21, 2017, 04:09:57 PM
@ChaimMoskowitz many members here have spent hours upon hours studying this case.

How many minutes have you looked into it that you feel you're qualified to comment on it?

Study the case, and maybe you'll agree with a bunch of former AGs, and Nancy Pelocy, and Orin Hatch etc.
Not only that. You sound extremely cynical. Why is it that every conversation that you are involved in here, its always about creating an elephant? Always have to be that guy who is the goody-goody, the guy to show everyone else. The fact that some small details are inaccurate is irrelevant here. The point is the same and you know the point. Stop trying to always find the bad in everything. Writing "celebrate his release but he is still a bad guy" (to paraphrase) is totally unnecessary  I don't normally comment in these discussions but sometimes when I see what you write it just makes me upset.
Has Trump turned you into a bitter old man?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Lamppost on December 21, 2017, 04:11:27 PM
I am just looking at the facts. I am not passing judgement on the individual. Members are saying things that are factually wrong.

I enjoyed reading this thread. I watched the videos of all the celebrating. It is unbelievable the love shown for this individual.
exatly my point. You are on the outside looking in. Why cant you just be happy also rather than looking it at it as an objective event?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:15:05 PM
Not only that. You sound extremely cynical. Why is it that every conversation that you are involved in here, its always about creating an elephant? Always have to be that guy who is the goody-goody, the guy to show everyone else. The fact that some small details are inaccurate is irrelevant here. The point is the same and you know the point. Stop trying to always find the bad in everything. Writing "celebrate his release but he is still a bad guy" (to paraphrase) is totally unnecessary  I don't normally comment in these discussions but sometimes when I see what you write it just makes me upset.
Has Trump turned you into a bitter old man?
Sorry I upset you.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Lamppost on December 21, 2017, 04:17:47 PM
Sorry I upset you.
Its okay.  You are just shortchanging yourself wearing those dark glasses all day.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Amusch on December 21, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
I actually hear CM's points, perhaps on behalf of the greater population, even if I don't fully agree, but I've been reluctant to discuss here as there are a lot of ppl here with "skin in the game" and that won't lead (IMO) to productive convo, (if online anonymous forum convo can ever be productive).

My point, if any, is to appreciate that there are multiple angles, and most ppl here (including me) may feel strongly one way, which is fine and good, but try to respect the other side.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 04:20:53 PM
I am just looking at the facts. I am not passing judgement on the individual. Members are saying things that are factually wrong.

I enjoyed reading this thread. I watched the videos of all the celebrating. It is unbelievable the love shown for this individual.
The elephant in the room, is the fact that the Prosecution and Judge were executing a hit job.

No one knows what is in anyone else's heart. But I suspect anti-semitsm.
The reason I suspect anti antisemitism, is because 70 years ago 6 million Jews were murdered, so I believe it's a real phenomenon.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Lamppost on December 21, 2017, 04:21:42 PM
I also hear the points. I dont disagree with them. But they pale in the big picture. Thats why to cnstantly harp those points even if they are correct when everyone agrees that this was a travesty is just not necessary. And it doesnt say a lot about CM to look at the everything from the negative viewpoint.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:22:08 PM
Its okay.  You are just shortchanging yourself wearing those dark glasses all day.
I just wear them in the Trump thread.  ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:23:36 PM
And it doesnt say a lot about CM to look at the everything from the negative viewpoint.
Am I really that bad?
I enjoyed reading this thread. I watched the videos of all the celebrating. It is unbelievable the love shown for this individual.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
Not only that. You sound extremely cynical. Why is it that every conversation that you are involved in here, its always about creating an elephant? Always have to be that guy who is the goody-goody, the guy to show everyone else. The fact that some small details are inaccurate is irrelevant here. The point is the same and you know the point. Stop trying to always find the bad in everything. Writing "celebrate his release but he is still a bad guy" (to paraphrase) is totally unnecessary  I don't normally comment in these discussions but sometimes when I see what you write it just makes me upset.
Has Trump turned you into a bitter old man?
אויפען גנב ברענט דאז היטל

Pretty much answers everything you asked. CM good luck getting that translated
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 04:29:52 PM
I just wear them in the Trump thread.  ;)
Fact check: False. You also wear them in the tax thread(s).
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 04:32:50 PM
Study the case, and maybe you'll agree with a bunch of former AGs, and Nancy Pelocy, and Orin Hatch etc.
ערבך ערבא צריך
Those all did not spend more than enough time to realize that they would not be embarrassed by saying it and did what they felt was politically expedient.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:34:10 PM
Fact check: False. You also wear them in the Trump tax thread(s).
:)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:35:50 PM
אויפען גנב ברענט דאז היטל

CM good luck getting that translated
@aygart
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 04:37:20 PM
Let’s remember that prosecutors sought 25 years & the mamzeres felt the need for an additional 2 years.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:40:05 PM
Let’s remember that prosecutors sought 25 years & the mamzeres felt the need for an additional 2 years.
Can we let this go and post more links to the celebration?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dawie on December 21, 2017, 04:44:57 PM
@aygart
http://www.yiddishwit.com/gallery/burn.html
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:46:47 PM
http://www.yiddishwit.com/gallery/burn.html
Thank you!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
@aygart

The thief's hat is burning

The point is that eventually his guilt will give him away. Hercule Poirot style.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 04:49:29 PM
The thief's hat is burning

The point is that eventually his guilt will give him away. Hercule Poirot style.
Same as: A thief's guilty conscience will betray him sooner or later.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 21, 2017, 04:52:52 PM
Can we let this go and post more links to the celebration?

https://www.instagram.com/kolhaolam/
https://www.instagram.com/theyeshivaworld/
https://www.instagram.com/zisheytwersky/
https://www.instagram.com/cee_to_the_es/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8a5eenRJI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc9ovNTAvkw/?taken-by=matzav.com_thejewishworld
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc-QW7XFfcm/?taken-by=theyoel


For the yiddish speaking crowd - http://www.ivelt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35782 (Many links to Dropbox/Google Drive with vidoes)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 04:58:08 PM
Same as: A thief's guilty conscience will betray him sooner or later.
yup
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 05:03:52 PM
https://www.instagram.com/kolhaolam/
https://www.instagram.com/theyeshivaworld/
https://www.instagram.com/zisheytwersky/
https://www.instagram.com/cee_to_the_es/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8a5eenRJI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc9ovNTAvkw/?taken-by=matzav.com_thejewishworld
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc-QW7XFfcm/?taken-by=theyoel


For the yiddish speaking crowd - http://www.ivelt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35782 (Many links to Dropbox/Google Drive with vidoes)
Do you have any without any references to Trump?

j/k

Looks like a hero's welcome home party!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 05:07:08 PM
https://www.instagram.com/kolhaolam/
https://www.instagram.com/theyeshivaworld/
https://www.instagram.com/zisheytwersky/
https://www.instagram.com/cee_to_the_es/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8a5eenRJI/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc9ovNTAvkw/?taken-by=matzav.com_thejewishworld
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc-QW7XFfcm/?taken-by=theyoel


For the yiddish speaking crowd - http://www.ivelt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35782 (Many links to Dropbox/Google Drive with vidoes)
Added to wiki
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 06:19:59 PM
Nancy Pelosi, Orrin Hatch, and Donald Trump agree on this being a good thing and yet so many Jews are mourning this.
Pathetic.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 06:21:19 PM
so many Jews are mourning this.
source ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 06:23:31 PM
source ?
FB posts and groups, DDMS comments, etc.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 06:31:24 PM
FB posts and groups, DDMS comments, etc.
I sincerely believe that the majority of them are just looking for good PC.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: lubaby on December 21, 2017, 06:42:15 PM
I sincerely believe that the majority of them are just looking for good PC.
It is almost Friday after all.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 06:44:19 PM
Nancy Pelosi, Orrin Hatch, and Donald Trump agree on this being a good thing and yet so many Jews are mourning this.
Pathetic.
Some of us don't agree with the response and fanfare to which much of the frum community is reacting. Sure his sentence was too long, but he's not a hero and doesn't deserve a hero's welcome. The government changed its mind about the details of the conviction, but it's no reason to celebrate to such an extent.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 06:48:48 PM
Some of us don't agree with the response and fanfare to which much of the frum community is reacting. Sure his sentence was too long, but he's not a hero and doesn't deserve a hero's welcome. The government changed its mind about the details of the conviction, but it's no reason to celebrate to such an extent.
The celebration was for his effective life sentence being commuted to the 8 years he served. Something that Orrin Hatch called a Chanukah miracle.

If he was sentenced to 8 years, none of the calibrations would be going on
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Sammy82 on December 21, 2017, 06:58:20 PM
Also, it is empirical fact that he was the head of a company that had violations even if he wasn't personally guilty.
You have some serious issues. I could only imagine your daily interpersonal relationships and dealings. I  suggest you start doing some soul searching. Maybe start learning a musser sefer or book 5 minutes a day. You'll live a much happier life and people will enjoy being around you. You're welcome in advance.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shaulyaakov on December 21, 2017, 07:15:48 PM
You have some serious issues. I could only imagine your daily interpersonal relationships and dealings. I  suggest you start doing some soul searching. Maybe start learning a musser sefer or book 5 minutes a day. You'll live a much happier life and people will enjoy being around you. You're welcome in advance.
   Not sure how what I said warrants an ad hominem attack. Sorry I don't celebrate convicted felons to the same extent as you do.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: real-brisker on December 21, 2017, 07:21:05 PM
   Not sure how what I said warrants an ad hominem attack. Sorry I don't celebrate convicted felons to the same extent as you do.
Well here on DD we do.
Maybe go to FM and find some people there that will celebrate your style.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ReadsTheT&C on December 21, 2017, 07:21:27 PM
My only shayla is at what point do we start saying Tachanun again? Such a Neys for Klal Yisroel.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 07:23:18 PM
   Not sure how what I said warrants an ad hominem attack. Sorry I don't celebrate convicted felons to the same extent as you do.
There was no ad hominem attack. It was purely based on what you wrote here
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 07:32:14 PM
(https://t.gyazo.com/teams/lowerwatt/4f03b14c6efb73a1a47c08f198428742.png)
Taken out of context. I was referring to the shower and bed someone mentioned that he probably wants.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 07:32:28 PM
אויפען גנב ברענט דאז היטל

Pretty much answers everything you asked. CM good luck getting that translated

And while we're at it, I'll throw in this one as well  :P

Let’s remember that prosecutors sought 25 years & the mamzeres felt the need for an additional 2 years.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 08:01:21 PM
   Not sure how what I said warrants an ad hominem attack. Sorry I don't celebrate convicted felons to the same extent as you do.
You are free not to celebrate and keep it to yourself. But interjecting into a celebratory discussion with the comments you made, just seems to paint a certain image of your personality.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
   Not sure how what I said warrants an ad hominem attack. Sorry I don't celebrate convicted felons to the same extent as you do.
Maybe stop being so judgemental of people with labels such as convicted felon. They're still human beings. I'm speaking from personal experience. We screwed up paid our debt to society and should be treated as rehabilitated members of society.

My personal goal is to ultimately be rehabilitated to a point where I'm deserving of a pardon. Will that ever happen I don't know no one knows. Put the label me a convicted felon for the rest of my life without taking into account any of the good that I've done before or since my felony conviction is an ad hominem attack on your part.

That being said , When the punishment far exceeds the crime and it is cut short there is cause to celebrate.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 08:26:29 PM
My personal goal is to ultimately be rehabilitated to a point where I'm deserving of a pardon. Will that ever happen I don't know no one knows. Put the label me a convicted felon for the rest of my life without taking into account any of the good that I've done before or since my felony conviction is an ad hominem attack on your part.
No convicted felon unless it was a miscarriage of justice deserves a pardon. This is not directed at you, this case or any other felon.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: 6girls on December 21, 2017, 08:39:07 PM
No convicted felon unless it was a miscarriage of justice deserves a pardon. This is not directed at you, this case or any other felon.
Seriously?!?!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 08:40:56 PM
Seriously?!?!
Yes and this belongs in the prison thread.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 08:42:15 PM
No convicted felon unless it was a miscarriage of justice deserves a pardon. This is not directed at you, this case or any other felon.
Deserves? No. Constitutional right? Yes
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on December 21, 2017, 08:45:24 PM
FB posts and groups, DDMS comments, etc.
The Backward.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 08:48:23 PM
Deserves? No. Constitutional right? Yes
No one has a constitutional right to a pardon. The executive has a constitutional privilege to issue them.

This is simple reading of the constitution.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 08:50:19 PM
No one has a constitutional right to a pardon. The executive has a constitutional privilege to issue them.

This is simple reading of the constitution.
You have a constitutional right to be able to be pardoned by the president should he wish to
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 08:51:03 PM
Look up the translation of Teshuva
If I understand correctly that can be accomplished without the legal aspect of a pardon.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 08:51:53 PM
You have a constitutional right to be able to be pardoned by the president should he wish to
Yes and I was giving my view.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 08:52:16 PM
Yes and I was giving my view.
I agreed just added this
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 08:53:21 PM
You have a constitutional right to be able to be pardoned by the president should he wish to
That is a real twisted pretzel.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 08:56:24 PM
That is a real twisted pretzel.
Does a law enforcement officer, have the right to enforce the law? No they are our representatives to enforce it for us
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 21, 2017, 09:14:39 PM
No convicted felon unless it was a miscarriage of justice deserves a pardon. This is not directed at you, this case or any other felon.
And that statement is coming from someone who counts this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance) (I presume) as a part of what he considers the true religion?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 09:35:39 PM
And that statement is coming from someone who counts this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance) (I presume) as a part of what he considers the true religion?
That is @aygart s job.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 09:36:52 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 09:38:21 PM
That is @aygart s job.
What is my job?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 09:39:48 PM
That is @aygart s job.
Did he study Catholicism?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 09:43:44 PM
No convicted felon unless it was a miscarriage of justice deserves a pardon. This is not directed at you, this case or any other felon.
So who the heck is it directed at? You cant say "No offense" and then proceed to offend an entire class of people.

Say "I dont believe..." or "IMHO".

Thank goodness what you think doesnt matter. It only matters that the Executive, whether state or federal has that power in my case. The US and NYS constitutions vest that power in the Executive alone and it is discretionary. There is no requirement that it relate to a miscarriage of justice. It is as close to temporal power as our democratically elected executive can get.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 09:44:15 PM
What is my job?
To turn everything into a religious discussion.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 09:46:03 PM


So who the heck is it directed at? You cant say "No offense" and then proceed to offend an entire class of people.

Say "I dont believe..." or "IMHO".

Thank goodness what you think doesnt matter. It only matters that the Executive, whether state or federal has that power in my case. The US and NYS constitutions vest that power in the Executive alone and it is discretionary. There is no requirement that it relate to a miscarriage of justice. It is as close to temporal power as our democratically elected executive can get.

Miscarriage of Justice is what appeals are for, not presidential pardons
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 09:47:46 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
"Horrifying"? She's probably a PETA activist talking about those poor cows. And shonda is probaby on of the only yiddish words that guy knows.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 09:49:21 PM

Miscarriage of Justice is what appeals are for, not presidential pardons
Not my words.
Agree 100% except when all else fails there are still clemency, commutation and pardon as a backstop.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Check out their other tweets, they're angry people.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 09:50:46 PM
Not my words.
Agree 100% except when all else fails there are still clemency, commutation and pardon as a backstop.
Presidential pardons are for "why not" situations
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 09:51:31 PM
So who the heck is it directed at? You cant say "No offense" and then proceed to offend an entire class of people.

Say "I dont believe..." or "IMHO".

Thank goodness what you think doesnt matter. It only matters that the Executive, whether state or federal has that power in my case. The US and NYS constitutions vest that power in the Executive alone and it is discretionary. There is no requirement that it relate to a miscarriage of justice. It is as close to temporal power as our democratically elected executive can get.
I guess you missed this?
Yes and I was giving my view.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 21, 2017, 09:53:49 PM
I guess you missed this?
So who the heck is it directed at? You cant say "No offense" and then proceed to offend an entire class of people.
I'm sorry will suffice.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 09:56:31 PM
And shonda is probaby on of the only yiddish words that guy knows.
Who doesn’t know “Mazel Touwf” ? :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 10:01:30 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Keep that stuff where it belongs! PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 10:06:12 PM
Did he study Catholicism?
No
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 10:13:54 PM
And that statement is coming from someone who counts this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance) (I presume) as a part of what he considers the true religion?
Last time I checked Absolution does not come from a government official.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on December 21, 2017, 10:33:16 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/national/390625/my-fellow-orthodox-jews-sholom-rubashkin-is-no-hero/

What this article and others are missing is that the reason SMR was given such a heroes welcome was because of the way he has acted since his incarceration. He has shown so many people what true Bitachon is. For all of his faults (and i agree that here and now is not the time to discuss them), he can serve as a role-model of what it means to trust that everything Hashem does is, and will be openly, good.

I've also noticed that the more "liberal" and tolerant people are on who they consider frum the more machmir they are in "dina D'malchusa." Its sad that the opposite is also true, the more "frum" people are the more likely they are to excuse illegal actions.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/national/390625/my-fellow-orthodox-jews-sholom-rubashkin-is-no-hero/



Moshe Weisberg • 4 hours ago
A very inappropriate opinion piece, especially at this time. Very out of tune with the emotions and feelings hundreds of thousands of your fellow Orthodox Jews are experincing today. This was truly a Chanukah miracle that corrected a gross injustice - that Obama ignored - and sent a decent man (who may have made some serious mistakes) back to his wife and 10 loving children where he belongs after eight years of incarceration. There is no shame in celebrating this. On the contrary it our reponsibilty as one large Jewish family to join in his celebration for having been rescued from a grossly obscene life sentence - and show him, his wife and children that he was not forgotten. Joining in this family's joy, and celebrating the Al-mighty's demonstration of Matir Asurim (freeing the captives) as one united community is the real Kiddush Hashem here.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 21, 2017, 10:56:52 PM
The Amshinover Rebbe is predicting the release of Rubashkin. He says it can happen any day now.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: cholent on December 21, 2017, 11:10:36 PM
The Amshinover Rebbe is predicting the release of Rubashkin. He says it can happen any day now.
ALOL
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:19:08 PM
They are so proud...
https://forward.com/news/national/14157/agriprocessors-and-beyond/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: rivkao on December 21, 2017, 11:23:22 PM
The Amshinover Rebbe is predicting the release of Rubashkin. He says it can happen any day now.
So maybe the fire can still  be prevented...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on December 21, 2017, 11:23:48 PM
Umm ... And its starting...

*Just heard this from Rubashkins son

וואס קיינער ווייסט נאכנישט איז יעצט אנפלעקט געווארן נאך א קארצע שמיעס מיט ר׳ שלום מרדכי.
זיצענדיג יעצט ביי פרישטאג האט ר׳ שלום מרדכי ציזאמענגעריפן זיין משפחה און גאר נאנטע חבירים. ער האט געווארט יעדער זאל זיין דערביי און אזוי האט ער אנגעהויבן.

און אזוי פארציילט רבי שלום מרדכי
מיט צוויי וואכן צירוק מיטוואך נאכט האב איך גע׳חלומט ווי דו רבי קומט אריין אין מיין צעל אין תפיסה און זאגט מיר שלום מרדכי קום מיט מיר, האב איך געזאגט פארן רבין אז עס איז דאך דא גארדס און אלעס איז פארשפארט, זאגט מיר דע רבי בזה הלשון:

היינט איז י״ט כסלו און אזויווי דע זיידע איז באפרייט געווארן אין דעם טאג גיי איך דיר אויך ארויסנעמען אינעם זעלבן טאג.

איך האב מיך אויפגעכאפט פון שלאף און נישט געוויסט צו איך חלום גוט,
איך האב מיך געזצט לערנען א מאמר פון רבין און געבעטן דעם אויבערשטן אז אויב איז עס אמת זאל דע רבי נאכאמאהל קומען צו מיר אין חלום,
איך האב מיך צירוקגעלייגט שלאפן און וכך הוה דע רבי האט זיך נאכאמאהל באוויזן, האב איך געפרעגט דעם רבין צו דאס וואס איך האב געחלומט איז אמת האט מיט דע רבי געזאגט אז אזויווי עס איז נאך דא א שטיקל קטרוג זאל איך מיר ציגרייטן אויף זאת חנוכה און אלץ לפרסומא ניסה וועט ער מיר דעמאלטס קומען ארויסנעמען, און תיקף דערנאך האב איך זיך אויפגעכאפט.
פארשייטזיך אז צירוקגיין שלאפן האב איך שוין נישט געקענט האב איך מיך געזעצט לערנען א גאנצע נאכט.

דע ערשטע נאכט חנוכה איז דו רבי געקומען נאכאמאהל אין חלום און געזאגט נאכאמאהל אז איך זאל זיך גרייטן, און דו רבי האט צוגעלייגט אז איך זאל זיך מקשר זיין מיט ר׳ מ.ש.ר. פון דא אין קראונהייטס און אים דערציילן איבער דעם חלום.
דו קומענדוגע ציפרו האב איך זיך טאקע מקשר געווען מיט ר׳ מ.ש.ר. און אים פארציילט דו חלום, האט ער מיר פארציילט אז זיין טאכטער וואס איז א טיטשער אין בית רבקה האט א מיידל אין איר קלאס פארציילט דו זעלבע מעשה, האב איך מיר באדאנקט פאר אים און געבעיטן צו האלטן בסוד דו גאנצע סיפור ביז נאכן ארויסקומען אי״ה.

נעכטן ציפרו זאת חנוכה נאכמיטאג בין איך געזיצן מיט אפאר אידן זיי צו מחזק זיין לכבוד חנוכה, און אזוי גיבנדיג חיזוק זעה איך ווי דו רבי האט זיך באוויזן בהקיץ און ער זיצט ציווישן דו אנדערע אידן וואס זענען זיך ציזאמענגעקומען לכבוד חנוכה.

נעכטן זאת חנוכה נאכמיטאג בין איך געזיצן מיט אפאר אידן זיי צו מחזק זיין לכבוד חנוכה, און אזוי גיבנדיג חיזוק זעה איך ווי דו רבי האט זיך באוויזן בהקיץ און ער זיצט ציווישן דו אנדערע אידן וואס זענען זיך ציזאמענגעקומען לכבוד חנוכה, איך האב זיך תיקף דערשראקן אבער דע רבי האט מיר געוויזן מיט דו אויגן אז איך זאל ממשיך זיין.

תיקף נאכן מסיבת חנוכה פיל איך ווי איינער כאפט מיר אן דו הענט! איך האב מיר זייער דערשראקן און אזויווי איך דריי מיך אויס זאגט מיר דו רבי נעם דיין תפילין און לאמיר גיין.
[/pre]
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:25:37 PM
Umm ... And its starting...

*Just heard this from Rubashkins son

וואס קיינער ווייסט נאכנישט איז יעצט אנפלעקט געווארן נאך א קארצע שמיעס מיט ר׳ שלום מרדכי.
זיצענדיג יעצט ביי פרישטאג האט ר׳ שלום מרדכי ציזאמענגעריפן זיין משפחה און גאר נאנטע חבירים. ער האט געווארט יעדער זאל זיין דערביי און אזוי האט ער אנגעהויבן.

און אזוי פארציילט רבי שלום מרדכי
מיט צוויי וואכן צירוק מיטוואך נאכט האב איך גע׳חלומט ווי דו רבי קומט אריין אין מיין צעל אין תפיסה און זאגט מיר שלום מרדכי קום מיט מיר, האב איך געזאגט פארן רבין אז עס איז דאך דא גארדס און אלעס איז פארשפארט, זאגט מיר דע רבי בזה הלשון:

היינט איז י״ט כסלו און אזויווי דע זיידע איז באפרייט געווארן אין דעם טאג גיי איך דיר אויך ארויסנעמען אינעם זעלבן טאג.

איך האב מיך אויפגעכאפט פון שלאף און נישט געוויסט צו איך חלום גוט,
איך האב מיך געזצט לערנען א מאמר פון רבין און געבעטן דעם אויבערשטן אז אויב איז עס אמת זאל דע רבי נאכאמאהל קומען צו מיר אין חלום,
איך האב מיך צירוקגעלייגט שלאפן און וכך הוה דע רבי האט זיך נאכאמאהל באוויזן, האב איך געפרעגט דעם רבין צו דאס וואס איך האב געחלומט איז אמת האט מיט דע רבי געזאגט אז אזויווי עס איז נאך דא א שטיקל קטרוג זאל איך מיר ציגרייטן אויף זאת חנוכה און אלץ לפרסומא ניסה וועט ער מיר דעמאלטס קומען ארויסנעמען, און תיקף דערנאך האב איך זיך אויפגעכאפט.
פארשייטזיך אז צירוקגיין שלאפן האב איך שוין נישט געקענט האב איך מיך געזעצט לערנען א גאנצע נאכט.

דע ערשטע נאכט חנוכה איז דו רבי געקומען נאכאמאהל אין חלום און געזאגט נאכאמאהל אז איך זאל זיך גרייטן, און דו רבי האט צוגעלייגט אז איך זאל זיך מקשר זיין מיט ר׳ מ.ש.ר. פון דא אין קראונהייטס און אים דערציילן איבער דעם חלום.
דו קומענדוגע ציפרו האב איך זיך טאקע מקשר געווען מיט ר׳ מ.ש.ר. און אים פארציילט דו חלום, האט ער מיר פארציילט אז זיין טאכטער וואס איז א טיטשער אין בית רבקה האט א מיידל אין איר קלאס פארציילט דו זעלבע מעשה, האב איך מיר באדאנקט פאר אים און געבעיטן צו האלטן בסוד דו גאנצע סיפור ביז נאכן ארויסקומען אי״ה.

נעכטן ציפרו זאת חנוכה נאכמיטאג בין איך געזיצן מיט אפאר אידן זיי צו מחזק זיין לכבוד חנוכה, און אזוי גיבנדיג חיזוק זעה איך ווי דו רבי האט זיך באוויזן בהקיץ און ער זיצט ציווישן דו אנדערע אידן וואס זענען זיך ציזאמענגעקומען לכבוד חנוכה.

נעכטן זאת חנוכה נאכמיטאג בין איך געזיצן מיט אפאר אידן זיי צו מחזק זיין לכבוד חנוכה, און אזוי גיבנדיג חיזוק זעה איך ווי דו רבי האט זיך באוויזן בהקיץ און ער זיצט ציווישן דו אנדערע אידן וואס זענען זיך ציזאמענגעקומען לכבוד חנוכה, איך האב זיך תיקף דערשראקן אבער דע רבי האט מיר געוויזן מיט דו אויגן אז איך זאל ממשיך זיין.

תיקף נאכן מסיבת חנוכה פיל איך ווי איינער כאפט מיר אן דו הענט! איך האב מיר זייער דערשראקן און אזויווי איך דריי מיך אויס זאגט מיר דו רבי נעם דיין תפילין און לאמיר גיין.
CM, I will not translate this for you.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:25:57 PM
They are so proud...
https://forward.com/news/national/14157/agriprocessors-and-beyond/
Who are they. Is this a publication about Jewish issues?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:26:33 PM
CM, I will not translate this for you.
Cliff notes?  :'(
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 11:26:54 PM
Who are they. Is this a publication about Jewish issues?
It is a publication against Jewish issues.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 21, 2017, 11:27:52 PM
I'll never understand what drives people to make up these stories, and with such detail, noch. Disgusting.
ETA: referring to this



Umm ... And its starting...


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:28:47 PM
Cliff notes?  :'(
It's just because I can't really understand it on my own, I'm working on it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 11:28:56 PM
This is a publication that has issues with Jewish
FTFY
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:29:22 PM
It is a publication against Jewish issues.
Am I getting this wrong? It seems the negativity is coming from some in the Jewish community? Basically seen nothing either way from the MSM.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on December 21, 2017, 11:30:34 PM
I'll never understand what drives people to make up these stories, and with such detail, noch. Disgusting.
ETA: referring to this
+100000

This is what fake news really is...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:31:37 PM
Am I getting this wrong? It seems the negativity is coming from some in the Jewish community? Basically seen nothing either way from the MSM.
I guess you never read FM :D
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:32:08 PM


Am I getting this wrong? It seems the negativity is coming from some in the Jewish community?

They aren't part of our Jewish community, they are against the orthodox Jewish community.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:33:01 PM
I guess you never read FM :D
Frequent Miler?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:33:44 PM

They aren't part of our Jewish community, they are against the orthodox Jewish community.
They are Jews?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:34:01 PM
Frequent Miler?
He hasn't sold out yet.

This FM sold out bigly. Got called out on it too yesterday :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 11:34:07 PM
Cliff notes?  :'(
The rebbe came to him in dreams.....
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 21, 2017, 11:36:49 PM
They are Jews?
They try their best to hide it
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:37:49 PM


They are Jews?

Yes


This FM sold out bigly. Got called out on it too yesterday :)

You support Trump like that? Bigly?
What are you referring to that they got Called out?

The rebbe came to him in dreams.....

That's what he said?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:38:14 PM
The rebbe came to him in dreams.....
Don't tease me.  >:(
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on December 21, 2017, 11:38:36 PM
The rebbe came to him in dreams.....
Did you finish?

That would maybe make a drop of sense. But the בהקיץ killed it..
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:38:40 PM
You support Trump like that? Bigly?
What are you referring to that they got Called out?
His FB page where he was moaning about SMR as usual.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on December 21, 2017, 11:39:39 PM
Don't tease me.  >:(
Chaim, wouldn't it pay once and for all to learn Yiddish?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:40:50 PM
Frequent Miler?
https://web.archive.org/web/20160206021134/http://www.onlysimchas.com/news/25874/heavy-speculation-that-shlomo-yehuda-rechnitz-involved-in-closing-of-failed-messiah-blog
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:40:51 PM
Don't tease me.  >:(
When its not your main language, and I'm too lazy to decipher it, I'm kind of in your shoes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:42:38 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20160206021134/http://www.onlysimchas.com/news/25874/heavy-speculation-that-shlomo-yehuda-rechnitz-involved-in-closing-of-failed-messiah-blog
Didn't realize you were referring to that, I assumed FM was forward magazine.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sam123 on December 21, 2017, 11:44:57 PM
Among the many legal scholars and others who have fought for years for a commutation of Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin’s prison sentence, one of the most important in finally getting the mission accomplished was Alan Dershowitz, a distinguished lawyer and Harvard law professor.

As celebrations continued around the world Thursday, Prof. Dershowitz spoke with Hamodia about the case, from his home in Florida.

When did you first hear the name Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin?

Shortly after the sentencing; I think I received a phone call from Nat Lewin telling me about the case.

And I was outraged by the sentence, because it appeared to me to be about ten times longer than sentences for comparable cases involving non-Jews or non-Orthodox Jews.

So you think that there was an anti-Semitic element here?

Well, I think if he weren’t a Chasidic Jew, he would not have gotten that sentence. And the evidence of that is there are other cases in this district involving non-Jews where the sentences were much lower for more serious frauds and crimes.

Do you think there was animosity toward him in the district, in the city?

I don’t know about that. I know that there was animosity toward him by the prosecutor and by the judge.

There were allegations of significant prosecutorial misconduct, specifically regarding the testimony of Paula Roby [attorney for the bankruptcy trustee], which they allowed to go on even though they knew it was false. Can you talk about that a little bit?

I want to talk more generally, because we’re probably going to pursue some of these issues further, now that he’s home with his family.

The major prosecutorial misconduct that I’ve been focusing on has been the way the prosecutors manipulated the sale price of the business, to bring the sale price down, to cause the losses to go up to increase the sentence.

So you think that the “No Rubashkin” rule in the bankruptcy sale was actually a tactic just to make the price go down to get him a higher prison sentence?

It was more than just the “No Rubashkin” rule; it was broader.

The affidavits in the case from some of the potential buyers said that the totality of the circumstances, the way they approached it, deterred them from offering a bid for the company.

You mean the prosecutor was basically scaring them off in some way?

That’s right, yes.

What do you have to say about Judge Linda Reade’s conduct throughout this [case]?

I think it’s been disgraceful: right from the beginning, where she helped engineer the search and then stayed on the case; the fact that her husband is invested in prisons for profit; the sentencing in the case – the totality of the circumstances creates the impression of bias.

Were the people who were arrested in the initial raid, the immigration raid – a case that was later dropped – incarcerated in private prisons?

I don’t know whether they were, but they could have been. All you need is the appearance of an injustice and the possibility that she or her husband could have profited by mass incarcerations.

You had a big hand in drafting federal sentencing guidelines, which you later said were misapplied in this case.

Yes. They were misapplied generally.

After I worked with Sen. Kennedy on the guidelines, we had had a commitment from the Republicans that they would not use it as a way of increasing sentences; they would just use it as a way of making sentences fairer. And they reneged on that promise.

Fairer in what way?

Fairer, more equal around the country for various crimes. And then the Republicans used it as an excuse to raise sentences.

[They] passed legislation increasing sentences, and then the Sentencing Commission – which consists of some judges, some politicians, some prosecutors, some others – created a scheme under which too much depended on the amount of loss, which allowed prosecutors to manipulate the loss and increase the sentence.

In this case specifically, can you explain how the sentencing guidelines were misapplied? Or did you mean that this was more just symptomatic of the guidelines being misapplied in general?

It’s just symptomatic of the more general problem that was manipulated in this case by the prosecutor artificially raising the amount of loss.

Even after the prosecutor asked for a high sentence, the judge actually gave an even higher sentence. That’s pretty rare, isn’t it?

That’s pretty rare, yes.

Normally in a case like this [he would be given] a much lower sentence because he’s a first offender, and he has a large family …

Can you describe your part in the commutation effort – I know it was first with President Obama, which failed, and then ultimately the successful effort with President Trump.

I raised it with the Obama Administration. A number of us wrote letters to President Obama, trying to get him to commute the sentence. He didn’t do it. And then when the Trump Administration came in, we continued our efforts.

At what point did you know that the commutation was imminent?

Yesterday.

You found out along with everybody else?


I knew it was in the works, but I found out only yesterday, a few hours before it happened, that it would be that day.

Can you discuss a little who some of the people that you were most involved with in this effort?

Sure.

Most important was Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky, the head of the Aleph Institute; he organized a great many things. And Gary Apfel, who is Sholom’s current lawyer.

There are many, many other people who helped.

Both legal and political.

Yes.

And this was totally a bi-partisan effort, right?

Not only bi-partisan, it was bi-religious. We had many Christians, many non-Jews involved in this effort.

One of the leading people is an African-American Republican named Larry Thompson. We had Louis Freeh, the former head of the FBI. I have never seen a more bi-partisan, diverse group of people seeking justice than in this case.

What was it about this case that galvanized so many people?

It was three things: the excessive sentence, the whiff of anti-Semitism, and the prosecutorial and judicial misconduct.

Any final comments on the Rubashkin matter?

I spoke to him this morning. He’s thrilled. He gave me a blessing.

It was a very great honor for me to have been able to participate – on a completely pro-bono basis; I didn’t receive a single penny for this – to try to achieve justice. And it was nice to have it happen in the last hours of Chanukah.

There were celebrations all around the world last night. Did you watch any of them?

People sent me a few video clips.

Finally, on another note, today was the U.N. General Assembly vote on Jerusalem; if you have any comments on that?

Abba Eban once said that if Algeria introduced a resolution in the General Assembly that the Earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would win 162-6, with 21 abstentions. Or as Ben Gurion said a long time ago, “UM Shmum.” The U.N. General Assembly means nothing. It’s an automatic majority against Israel on every issue. It should be totally ignored. President Trump did the right thing. President Obama did the wrong thing by allowing the Security Council resolution of December 2016 to go through.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:45:07 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20160206021134/http://www.onlysimchas.com/news/25874/heavy-speculation-that-shlomo-yehuda-rechnitz-involved-in-closing-of-failed-messiah-blog
I should have remembered that. I was searching for "fake messiah". Some interesting results.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 21, 2017, 11:45:48 PM
Cliff notes?  :'(
Someone went through the time and effort of writing a fictional story regarding SM Rubashkin and the Lubavitcher Rebbe and is passing it off as non-fiction. Go to the library and you'll find better stories to read.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 21, 2017, 11:46:55 PM


Some interesting results.  :)

I'm sure
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: rs242 on December 21, 2017, 11:52:26 PM
I’m curious, how does everyone know this is fake?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 21, 2017, 11:55:42 PM
I’m curious, how does everyone know this is fake?
Snopes
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:55:51 PM

Can you discuss a little who some of the people that you were most involved with in this effort?
Sure.

Most important was Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky, the head of the Aleph Institute; he organized a great many things. And Gary Apfel, who is Sholom’s current lawyer.
I gotta say, when my SIL posted to our family whatsapp that her brother Zvi made it his life mission to get SMR out of prison and worked tirelessly with Jared Kushner to make this happen I took it with a grain a salt.

But kol hakavod(e)!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 21, 2017, 11:57:43 PM
They are so proud...
https://forward.com/news/national/14157/agriprocessors-and-beyond/
מְהָרְסַיִךְ וּמַחֲרִבַיִךְ מִמֵּךְ יֵצֵא
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 21, 2017, 11:58:03 PM
I gotta say, when my SIL posted to our family whatsapp that her brother Zvi made it his life mission to get SMR out of prison and worked tirelessly with Jared Kushner to make this happen I took it with a grain a salt.

But kol hakavod(e)!
Any mention who had Trumps ear?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 21, 2017, 11:58:55 PM
Any mention who had Trumps ear?
Have to assume Jared. I guess I need to speak to Zvi to find out more.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 21, 2017, 11:59:50 PM
Don't tease me.  >:(
I stopped there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 22, 2017, 12:00:20 AM
Well @ChaimMoskowitz ?

"What was it about this case that galvanized so many people?

It was three things: the excessive sentence, the whiff of anti-Semitism, and the prosecutorial and judicial misconduct."

http://hamodia.com/2017/12/21/correcting-rubashkin-injustice-interview-alan-dershowitz/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 12:00:57 AM
Any mention who had Trumps ear?

Alan Dershowitz allegedly.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:01:51 AM
Have to assume Jared. I guess I need to speak to Zvi to find out more.
If it isn't Ivanka I will be having crow instead of Prime Rib.  :-[
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 22, 2017, 12:01:59 AM
Alan Dershowitz allegedly.

http://hamodia.com/2017/12/21/correcting-rubashkin-injustice-interview-alan-dershowitz/

Can you discuss a little who some of the people that you were most involved with in this effort?
Sure.

Most important was Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky, the head of the Aleph Institute; he organized a great many things. And Gary Apfel, who is Sholom’s current lawyer.
I gotta say, when my SIL posted to our family whatsapp that her brother Zvi made it his life mission to get SMR out of prison and worked tirelessly with Jared Kushner to make this happen I took it with a grain a salt.

But kol hakavod(e)!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:02:48 AM
Alan Dershowitz allegedly.
That would explain why he has been sucking up to him on FOX.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 22, 2017, 12:02:58 AM
If it isn't Ivanka I will be having crow instead of Prime Rib.  :-[
I'll try to get the scoop. Would hate to see crow become extinct.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 12:03:34 AM
If it isn't Ivanka I will be having crow instead of Prime Rib.  :-[
Wrong thread ;P
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:06:53 AM
Well @ChaimMoskowitz ?

"What was it about this case that galvanized so many people?

It was three things: the excessive sentence, the whiff of anti-Semitism, and the prosecutorial and judicial misconduct."

http://hamodia.com/2017/12/21/correcting-rubashkin-injustice-interview-alan-dershowitz/
I read it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sam123 on December 22, 2017, 12:09:24 AM
Have to assume Jared. I guess I need to speak to Zvi to find out more.

Do a DD Exclusive Interview with the missing details.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 12:11:03 AM
Do a DD Exclusive Interview with the missing details.
Dan did you say you have too much time on your hand, and you need a new field to go into.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 12:18:23 AM
I'll try to get the scoop. Would hate to see crow become extinct.
That was my prediction
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: good sam on December 22, 2017, 12:26:52 AM
Wtf is that last Instagram link in the wiki?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 12:28:36 AM
Wtf is that last Instagram link in the wiki?
Someone on desktop should please remove it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:31:26 AM
Wtf is that last Instagram link in the wiki?
Since you brought it up what is the small objects on their forehead?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 22, 2017, 12:32:29 AM
I removed it. But I don't know why you want it removed. (It's a bunch of guys dancing around a bima. No?)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 22, 2017, 12:32:43 AM
Since you brought it up what is the small objects on their forehead?
Tefilin
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on December 22, 2017, 12:34:38 AM
Cliff notes?  :'(

I don't know who wrote this, but they are claiming that Rubashkin told his family that over the last few weeks he had several dreams that he would be freed on the last day of Chanukah.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on December 22, 2017, 12:47:09 AM
In all fairness it was probably the effort of a few people together what convinced the President.

If I would have to guess I would say that Kushner had the real influence on Trump however he would never do it (even for Kushner) without people like Dershowitz protecting his back.   Dershowitz is a very respectful figure, plus he had so many former Justice officials pushing for it.  Together it was much easier for him to do it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Work-for-ur-muny on December 22, 2017, 12:47:26 AM
I'll try to get the scoop. Would hate to see crow become extinct.
Crow is eaten with a fork, last time I checked.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:49:35 AM
Crow is eaten with a fork, last time I checked.
Depends how it is cooked.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: skyguy918 on December 22, 2017, 01:04:58 AM
I removed it. But I don't know why you want it removed. (It's a bunch of guys dancing around a bima. No?)
At least on tapa, the thumbnail was a very immodest picture.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sky121 on December 22, 2017, 01:35:35 AM
I don't really know enough about this case but from everything I understood there were laws broken, and time served. Yes I agree that the sentencing was too harsh. Yes I am thrilled he is out of prison. But all the partying does leave me feeling like something is slightly off.  I'm not saying he or the people are wrong or right.  Just that I'm left with this feeling that maybe that isn't the way to leave prison when you did in fact commit a crime and have to serve time for it.

Being happy is one thing. Partying is another. The whole ruckus and quotes from the media about his 'heros welcome' just didn't sit well with exactly. 


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: elit on December 22, 2017, 06:43:51 AM
now it all makes sense(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171222/1e00d2bc34ea6b9b7123e15497b896cd.jpg)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 06:52:16 AM
now it all makes sense(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171222/1e00d2bc34ea6b9b7123e15497b896cd.jpg)
👍
LOL.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshe123 on December 22, 2017, 06:56:10 AM
Tell me your position on SMR and I'll guess correctly whether you're a modox/reform Jew with a healthy dose of sinas am haaretz letalmid chacham.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: elit on December 22, 2017, 06:56:59 AM

LOL.
if only they knew the evidence of collusion is right here
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 06:58:32 AM
if only they knew the evidence of collusion is right here
But it's more than a year after the election, so it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: elit on December 22, 2017, 07:04:11 AM
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 08:01:25 AM
Tell me your position on SMR and I'll guess correctly whether you're a modox/reform Jew with a healthy dose of sinas am haaretz letalmid chacham.
...but what if you are a goy?  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 22, 2017, 08:08:06 AM
Given the lack of media coverage, seems like most don't care about it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 08:27:24 AM
I removed it. But I don't know why you want it removed. (It's a bunch of guys dancing around a bima. No?)
That is not what showed on the preview on Tapa unless it was a different link that had already been removed.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 08:31:17 AM
That is not what showed on the preview on Tapa unless it was a different link that had already been removed.
That's what showed for me (bunch of guys dancing around) with an English explanation on the right.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 08:36:28 AM
Given the lack of media coverage, seems like most don't care about it.
Any thoughts why that is? Everything Trump does is under a microscope.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Lamppost on December 22, 2017, 08:38:49 AM
Any thoughts why that is? Everything Trump does is under a microscope.
This kind of stuff is typically not popular so Trump probably waited till right after taxes passed so that would dominate the headlines. My guess...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 22, 2017, 08:39:20 AM
Not much sensation to be had from a story that the entire political spectrum felt was highly unjust.

There's also no smoking QPQ gun like there was for Marc Rich.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 08:39:28 AM
Any thoughts why that is? Everything Trump does is under a microscope.
Tax bill, holidays, D’s wanted it as well, to name a few
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 22, 2017, 08:40:30 AM
Any thoughts why that is? Everything Trump does is under a microscope.
Bipartisan support. Pelosi supported too. Schumer may have something to say about it...on Sunday, which is his favorite day to preach about BS because he's the only one making noise that day. He has press conferences every sunday over garbage.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 08:49:28 AM
Tax bill, holidays, D’s wanted it as well, to name a few
If the D's wanted it BO would have done it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshe123 on December 22, 2017, 08:53:50 AM
If the D's wanted it BO would have done it.

Let's not go down the rabbit hole here, before I explicitly call out Obama as a rabid anti-semite.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 08:55:49 AM
Let's not go down the rabbit hole here, before I explicitly call out Obama as a rabid anti-semite.
You can call someone out for anything you want but it doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 09:04:27 AM
If the D's wanted it BO would have done it.
So Pelosi isn’t a D ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:09:06 AM
So Pelosi isn’t a D ?
My point is what she says is not the same as what she does. Who would think that about politicians?  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 09:10:47 AM
...but what if you are a goy?  :)
Well a name like Chaim Moskowitz can't be a goy, you are probably satmar? Am I right?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 09:11:54 AM
My point is what she says is not the same as what she does. Who would think that about politicians?  :)
So you’re essentially calling madam pelosi a liar
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:16:23 AM
So you’re essentially calling madam pelosi a liar
YES!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:17:22 AM
Well a name like Chaim Moskowitz can't be a goy, you are probably satmar? Am I right?
I didn't choose my name.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aro123 on December 22, 2017, 09:25:50 AM
I didn't choose my name.
which one of them?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 09:25:56 AM
YES!!!
So did she lie about Obamacare too ? :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:32:59 AM
So did she lie about Obamacare too ? :)
What did she say about it? If it was that it would help millions of Americans, no.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ReadsTheT&C on December 22, 2017, 09:35:23 AM
Tell me your position on SMR and I'll guess correctly whether you're a modox/reform Jew with a healthy dose of sinas am haaretz letalmid chacham.
Between Dershowitz and Kushner, could SMR have gotten released without the help of reform and modox Jews?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:36:27 AM
Between Dershowitz and Kushner, could SMR have gotten released without the help of reform and modox Jews?
Great question!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 09:36:56 AM
Between Dershowitz and Kushner, could SMR have gotten released without the help of reform and modox Jews?
That helps you how?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 09:37:20 AM
Great question!!!
Terrible one, say it's true, what does it help?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:37:55 AM
That helps you how?
That's not what was asked!  :P
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:42:17 AM
Tell me your position on SMR and I'll guess correctly whether you're a modox/reform Jew with a healthy dose of sinas am haaretz letalmid chacham.
OK I will play. I am one of the persons that fought like h*ll to get him released and was instrumental in his release.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 22, 2017, 09:49:26 AM
Given the lack of media coverage, seems like most don't care about it.

in this case, that is a good thing. Thankfully, the embassy move to Jerusalem and the new tax law are taking center stage. Plus 10-day vacations for many people.   8)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 22, 2017, 09:52:22 AM
Let's not go down the rabbit hole here, before I explicitly call out Obama as a rabid anti-semite.
Oh goodie, at least you didn't say that explicitly then. Close call.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:55:16 AM
Oh goodie, at least you didn't say that explicitly then. Close call.
LOL
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 09:56:00 AM
Plus 10-day vacations for many people.   8)
Who?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 22, 2017, 10:02:22 AM
Who?

House and Senate are off and on vacation from work from Dec. 22 - Jan 2, correct?  (Maybe they'll make a stopover in Israel and check it out for themselves...)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 10:03:17 AM
OK I will play. I am one of the persons that fought like h*ll to get him released and was instrumental in his release.  :)
@davidrotts63  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 10:04:12 AM
House and Senate are off and on vacation from work from Dec. 22 - Jan 2, correct?  (Maybe they'll make a stopover in Israel and check it out for themselves...)
OK I thought you meant real workers that matter.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 10:06:37 AM
OK I thought you meant real workers that matter.  :)
They have been taking off all month! For the last month there has always been someone on the team out preventing things from getting done.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 10:12:30 AM
@davidrotts63  :)
I wasn't the one who said to play this game, I said pretty clearly you are satmar.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on December 22, 2017, 10:13:46 AM
I wasn't the one who said to play this game, I said pretty clearly you are satmar.
Game Over. You Lose.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 10:14:19 AM
Game Over. You Lose.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 10:14:44 AM
I wasn't the one who said to play this game, I said pretty clearly you are satmar.
If I know who Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum was would that give you a hint?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 10:15:45 AM
If I know who Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum was would that give you a hint?
Lol
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 10:18:56 AM



...but what if you are a goy?  :)


Well a name like Chaim Moskowitz can't be a goy, you are probably satmar? Am I right?


@davidrotts63  :)


I wasn't the one who said to play this game, I said pretty clearly you are satmar.




If I know who Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum was would that give you a hint?

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on December 22, 2017, 10:52:33 AM
If the D's wanted it BO would have done it.
Your God Obama actually attacked Rubashkin when he was campaigning in Iowa in 2008.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 10:55:19 AM
Your God Obama actually attacked Rubashkin when he was campaigning in Iowa in 2008.
I didn't support OB but why let facts get in the way of BS.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 11:19:26 AM
I didn't choose my name.
On which day of the week?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 11:23:04 AM
If I know who Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum was would that give you a hint?
Where does he currently live ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 11:25:17 AM
Where does he currently live ?
Which one? There are plenty of people in Satmar named Joel and I am sure quite a few with the last name Teitelbaum. We even have at least one distinguished DDFer with that last name.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: daybyday on December 22, 2017, 11:26:01 AM
Wish there was a way to mute some users (aka: anti-semite/osama lovers). It would make the forum so much more pleasant.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:30:17 AM
Wish there was a way to mute some users (aka: anti-semite/osama lovers). It would make the forum so much more pleasant.
I agree. Look at all the anti-Semite trashing Rubashkin? Wait they are Jews so can they be anti-Semites?  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 11:31:21 AM
Which one? There are plenty of people in Satmar named Joel and I am sure quite a few with the last name Teitelbaum. We even have at least one distinguished DDFer with that last name.
”Rabbi”. The one that CM knows :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 11:31:34 AM
Wish there was a way to mute some users (aka: anti-semite/osama lovers). It would make the forum so much more pleasant.
It is never a good idea to mute opinions you disagree with
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 11:31:55 AM
I agree. Look at all the anti-Semite trashing Rubashkin? Wait they are Jews so can they be anti-Semites?  :)
Yes
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:32:50 AM
”Rabbi”. The one that CM knows :)
"The Founder" as he is referred to in my circle.  ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 11:33:20 AM
I agree. Look at all the anti-Semite trashing Rubashkin? Wait they are Jews so can they be anti-Semites?  :)
Only one person who can be.....
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:34:01 AM
Yes
Was sure as blacks claim they can't be racist. New a scorecard to keep this stuff straight.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: daybyday on December 22, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
It is never a good idea to mute opinions you disagree with
Its a great idea. You don't need to go learn christianity or islam in order to know you have no interest. I don't enjoy reading self hating jews who love our enemies.
The fact that they exist is not in my control. Not reading their vile opinions, is mostly in my control.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 11:42:29 AM
Its a great idea. You don't need to go learn christianity or islam in order to know you have no interest. I don't enjoy reading self hating jews who love our enemies.
The fact that they exist is not in my control. Not reading their vile opinions, is mostly in my control.
That is a very poor analogy. I disagree with them, but are you unable to understand at all why some feel that the public celebrations are very out of place?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 22, 2017, 11:43:06 AM
http://chabadinfo.com/video/new-rendition-of-padah-vshalom/
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/jewish/Chapter-55.htm
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 11:43:56 AM
I agree. Look at all the anti-Semite trashing Rubashkin? Wait they are Jews so can they be anti-Semites?  :)
Some of the biggest anti-semites are Jews (or of jewish descent).
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:44:38 AM
http://chabadinfo.com/video/new-rendition-of-padah-vshalom/
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/jewish/Chapter-55.htm
I was getting worried that something happened to you.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:45:10 AM
Some of the biggest anti-semites are Jews (or of jewish descent).
Ouch!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 11:46:28 AM
Ouch!
You haven't grown any Jewish thick skin, have you?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:47:23 AM
You haven't grown any Jewish thick skin, have you?
My skin is think enough. How else could I survive here?  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Sammy82 on December 22, 2017, 11:48:11 AM
Its a great idea. You don't need to go learn christianity or islam in order to know you have no interest. I don't enjoy reading self hating jews who love our enemies.
The fact that they exist is not in my control. Not reading their vile opinions, is mostly in my control.
Could I ask how old you are?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 22, 2017, 11:49:20 AM
I was getting worried that something happened to you.

I'm afraid I've become chabad. You should be worried.

(Give it some time, I'll find some gezh)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 11:50:35 AM
I'm afraid I've become chabad. You should be worried.

(Give it some time, I'll find some gezh)
Nah. You always were.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 11:50:51 AM
I'm afraid I've become chabad. You should be worried.

(Give it some time, I'll find some gezh)
I was talking about puosu?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
Nah. You always were.
Not every good Jewish trait makes someone Lubavitch.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on December 22, 2017, 11:54:18 AM
Which one? There are plenty of people in Satmar named Joel and I am sure quite a few with the last name Teitelbaum. We even have at least two distinguished DDFer with that last name.
FTFY (IIRC)


ETA: I take that back. Was just a hava amina about a famous search expert here.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 22, 2017, 11:55:38 AM
FTFY (IIRC)
Very possible. There's one famous one of minority gender around here. There might be many more.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 22, 2017, 12:01:34 PM
I'm afraid I've become chabad. You should be worried.

(Give it some time, I'll find some gezh)

this is good news. I remember that there were some DDFers who were afraid that 'the parade was going to get them'. (Lag B'Omer  ;))

B"H a lot has happened since... 
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: daybyday on December 22, 2017, 12:13:20 PM
Could I ask how old you are?
Old enough to know that 35 years olds who respond with "Coild I ask how old you are?" have very little useful to say about the topic.  :D
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:15:58 PM
Old enough to know that...
Can we narrow it down a little more?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 12:18:15 PM
Can we narrow it down a little more?
Don't worry. He’s nowhere close to you :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:19:13 PM
Don't worry. He’s nowhere close to you :)
Very few show my maturity.  ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 22, 2017, 12:21:42 PM
I was talking about puosu?

That's only on the taxes thread.  Come on by
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 12:24:56 PM
That's only on the taxes thread. 
#fakenews
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 22, 2017, 12:37:18 PM
Its a great idea. You don't need to go learn christianity or islam in order to know you have no interest. I don't enjoy reading self hating jews who love our enemies.
The fact that they exist is not in my control. Not reading their vile opinions, is mostly in my control.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: cozmohoot on December 22, 2017, 02:16:21 PM
I removed it. But I don't know why you want it removed. (It's a bunch of guys dancing around a bima. No?)
On tapatalk it showed a very inappropriate image.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 02:18:38 PM
On tapatalk it showed a very inappropriate image.
That's why no one should use that crap.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 22, 2017, 02:19:32 PM
That's why no one should use that crap.
Wait, what are you using?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 22, 2017, 02:31:20 PM
Wait, what are you using?
IE
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: cozmohoot on December 22, 2017, 02:35:17 PM
IE
I haven't used a desktop for the forum's in a long time.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 22, 2017, 03:09:39 PM
IE
This explains everything. You should put it in your profile, so anytime someone is about to argue with you, they'll see, "oh, he uses IE. Never mind."
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 22, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
FLORIDA - JUST NOW: President @realDonaldTrump waves from the motorcade to a group of people that came out to thank him for commuting the sentence of Sholom Mordechai #Rubashkin. pic.twitter.com/8pNu9Ei08K


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 22, 2017, 04:13:01 PM
It was an honor to pay a visit and thank the grand rabbi of #Skver. Wonderful to see such a huge crowd, Thank You all!
Photos by @AhBlickLive. pic.twitter.com/SmgrGvU062


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 22, 2017, 04:14:44 PM
FLORIDA - JUST NOW: President @realDonaldTrump waves from the motorcade to a group of people that came out to thank him for commuting the sentence of Sholom Mordechai #Rubashkin. pic.twitter.com/8pNu9Ei08K

That’s awesome
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 22, 2017, 04:20:35 PM
That’s awesome
C/P from Whatsapp yesterday

B”H

MEMBERS OF SOUTH FLORIDA’S JEWISH COMMUNITY URGED TO GREET PRESIDENT TRUMP AND EXPRESS APPRECIATION @ 11AM ON FRIDAY.

Let’s gather together in unity, as one people, in gratitude, to thank G-d for the miracle. It’s critical we express our heartfelt appreciation to President Trump for having the courage and fortitude to commute the unjust sentence of Sholom Rubashkin!

President Trump will be passing by Dreher Park on his way to La-Margo. Signs and banners will be provided.

Friday Morning - December 22, 2017 11:00 am - 12:00 pm

  Dreher Park - 1100 Southern Blvd, West Palm Beach, FL 33405
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 23, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
He was Shabbos by his parents, Friday night was a huge crowd by his "Tish". Street was blocked off by NYPD the entire shabbos. He went now Motzai Shabbos to Munkatch
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 23, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
He was Shabbos by his parents, Friday night was a huge crowd by his "Tish". Street was blocked off by NYPD the entire shabbos. He went now Motzai Shabbos to Munkatch
Thank you @CWSPshmira for securing my parents house over shabbas. It was tough, thousand passed by but you guys did an excellent job!


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 23, 2017, 10:40:31 PM
@CWSPshmira
?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 23, 2017, 10:40:55 PM
?
A volunteer group.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: damaxer91 on December 23, 2017, 10:42:47 PM
Is Shalom Rubashkin on DDF?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 23, 2017, 10:44:12 PM
Is Shalom Rubashkin on DDF?
Lol
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 23, 2017, 10:47:34 PM
Is Shalom Rubashkin on DDF?
That would be cool.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on December 24, 2017, 01:38:45 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/22/why-trump-commuted-sholom-rubashkins-27-year-prison-sentence-commentary.html

What does it say about society/politics that the author doesn't event think to suggest that Trump did it because it is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 01:48:32 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/22/why-trump-commuted-sholom-rubashkins-27-year-prison-sentence-commentary.html

What does it say about society/politics that the author doesn't event think to suggest that Trump did it because it is the right thing to do.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1178782/jewish/Hebrew-Text.htm
Mishna 3

Don't be naive.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 01:50:50 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/22/why-trump-commuted-sholom-rubashkins-27-year-prison-sentence-commentary.html

What does it say about society/politics that the author doesn't event think to suggest that Trump did it because it is the right thing to do.
Trump won the American Orthodox Jewish vote and a healthy 68 percent of the vote in the Lubavitch neighborhood of Borough Park, Brooklyn where Rubashkin is from

They go with @ExGingi definition of a lubavitcher
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 02:09:30 AM
Trump won the American Orthodox Jewish vote and a healthy 68 percent of the vote in the Lubavitch neighborhood of Borough Park, Brooklyn where Rubashkin is from

They go with @ExGingi definition of a lubavitcher
Nah. Their definition seems much narrower.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: moish on December 24, 2017, 04:48:09 AM
That interview with Dershowitz really changed my view on this. Thanks to whoever posted it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sky121 on December 24, 2017, 05:03:10 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/22/why-trump-commuted-sholom-rubashkins-27-year-prison-sentence-commentary.html

What does it say about society/politics that the author doesn't event think to suggest that Trump did it because it is the right thing to do.
Does Trump ever give off the impression that he's doing things 'because it's the right thing to do'?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sky121 on December 24, 2017, 05:03:39 AM
That interview with Dershowitz really changed my view on this. Thanks to whoever posted it.
Where's the link? I'd like to hear it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: 6girls on December 24, 2017, 08:09:04 AM
Where's the link? I'd like to hear it.
http://hamodia.com/2017/12/21/correcting-rubashkin-injustice-interview-alan-dershowitz/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 08:30:48 AM
Nah. Their definition seems much narrower.
We can just as easily say that you and they are all Ponovezers and just don't know it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
We can just as easily say that you and they are all Ponovezers and just don't know it.
Regarding myself, I am probably a more authentic Ponovezher than many (not the Yeshiva, the town ;)).

Regarding the rest of world Jewry, why would anyone say so? What Ponovezher הנהגות or תורות are becoming more widespread, adapted, or accepted amongst Jews from all backgrounds?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 09:23:37 AM
Regarding myself, I am probably a more authentic Ponovezher than many (not the Yeshiva, the town ;)).

Regarding the rest of world Jewry, why would anyone say so? What Ponovezher הנהגות or תורות are becoming more widespread, adapted, or accepted amongst Jews from all backgrounds?
Ever hear of a sefer called אבי עזרי?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 09:32:28 AM
Ever hear of a sefer called אבי עזרי?
Definitely.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 09:33:57 AM
Definitely.
So what is your question?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Ygold on December 24, 2017, 01:35:12 PM
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 24, 2017, 02:39:00 PM
Wow this is unbelievable! I heard a lot of interesting stories over the last few days but this is amazing!

Translation: The first letter R’ Leibish wrote with the students from this school was exactly 6 years ago! pic.twitter.com/I3gJuZTj2i


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 24, 2017, 06:14:48 PM

Good stuff from his brother in law.
Confirms that Schumer was anti!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 24, 2017, 06:39:58 PM
https://www.vosizneias.com/287703/2017/12/24/new-york-rabbi-balkany-satmar-hasidim-heroes-sen-schumer-a-zero-in-rubashkin-release/

So Satmar worked harder then Chabad worked for him?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on December 24, 2017, 06:47:13 PM
https://www.vosizneias.com/287703/2017/12/24/new-york-rabbi-balkany-satmar-hasidim-heroes-sen-schumer-a-zero-in-rubashkin-release/

So Satmar worked harder then Chabad worked for him?
Yes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 24, 2017, 06:47:20 PM
https://www.vosizneias.com/287703/2017/12/24/new-york-rabbi-balkany-satmar-hasidim-heroes-sen-schumer-a-zero-in-rubashkin-release/

So Satmar worked harder then Chabad worked for him?
Its possible. I hear they raised a fortune
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 24, 2017, 06:56:12 PM
Rabbi Balkany noted that organizers of the annual Kinus Hashluchim, for the first couple of years, refused repeated requests to have Tehillim said for Rubashkin’s plight at the mega-event which draws thousands of Lubavitcher chasidim from all over the world every year.


I'm surprised with Chabad.  Any of you guys want to defend them?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Jkhein on December 24, 2017, 07:05:12 PM
https://www.vosizneias.com/287703/2017/12/24/new-york-rabbi-balkany-satmar-hasidim-heroes-sen-schumer-a-zero-in-rubashkin-release/

So Satmar worked harder then Chabad worked for him?
Interestingly enough yes, old news.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:09:08 PM
https://www.vosizneias.com/287703/2017/12/24/new-york-rabbi-balkany-satmar-hasidim-heroes-sen-schumer-a-zero-in-rubashkin-release/

So Satmar worked harder then Chabad worked for him?
Sorry, but I'm going with Dershowitz' story over his.

Hamodia: "Can you discuss a little who were some of the people that you were most involved with in this effort?"

Dershowitz: "Sure. Most important was Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky, the head of the Aleph Institute; he organized a great many things."

People like Dershowitz, Boyarsky, and Kushner actually worked behind the scenes to make it happen. Even if they don't feel the need to gloat about it to the world and spread nasty L"H about others. For shame.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 07:14:10 PM
Sorry, but I'm going with Dershowitz' story over his.

Hamodia: "Can you discuss a little who were some of the people that you were most involved with in this effort?"

Dershowitz: "Sure. Most important was Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky, the head of the Aleph Institute; he organized a great many things."

People like Dershowitz, Boyarsky, and Kushner actually worked behind the scenes to make it happen. Even if they don't feel the need to gloat about it to the world and spread nasty L"H about others. For shame.
You are obviously nogeah badavar - some family ties. But I just feel that you're right on this one. I don't know what it is, but Balkany just sounded to me like he has a certain agenda. Some of what might have made it come across like that, was use of terms such as Chabad, Satmar etc. Rather than specific individuals, or even saying "the Satmar Community" etc.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Deal Guy on December 24, 2017, 07:16:23 PM
Wouldn't a brother-in-law know the best who helped on a day to day basis?

One thing we can all agree on, is SHAME ON SCHUMER.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on December 24, 2017, 07:16:39 PM
Sorry, but I'm going with Dershowitz' story over his.

Hamodia: "Can you discuss a little who were some of the people that you were most involved with in this effort?"

Dershowitz: "Sure. Most important was Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky, the head of the Aleph Institute; he organized a great many things."

People like Dershowitz, Boyarsky, and Kushner actually worked behind the scenes to make it happen. Even if they don't feel the need to gloat about it to the world and spread nasty L"H about others. For shame.

Fits with the Chabad MO for political advocacy, which is to focus on behind the scenes pressure.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: moish on December 24, 2017, 07:18:08 PM
If you watched the melave malka, it was apparent that the Satmar guys worked very hard
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 07:19:28 PM
Wouldn't a brother-in-law know the best who helped on a day to day basis?

He might, and he might not. And if he has an agenda, that might trump any actual facts.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 24, 2017, 07:19:42 PM
Why would they mention him at the Kinus?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 07:21:28 PM
If you watched the melave malka, it was apparent that the Satmar guys worked very hard
Not doubting it for a second.

But if the question is "who had the greatest impact in getting the commutation?" the answer to that might be different.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 24, 2017, 07:23:50 PM
Sorry, but it was Satmar people (not the kehilla) that started his campaign, Satmar people from Monsey & KJ. They started out with the fundraising campaign and the first petetion to WH.gov. it was from the very first petitions if not the very first

BP had the first campaign night, followed in KJ right after Lag Boomer. (I recall by the LB fire in KJ before it started there was an announcement that there will be a dinner for SMR. They don't usually announce such things)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
Why would they mention him at the Kinus?
For the "outsiders" around here, please understand that although "חסידים זיינען איין משפחה", the Kinus is specifically focused on Shlichus and Shluchim.

Questioning why it wasn't mentioned there would be akin to asking why wasn't it mentioned at the event about the dangers of technology.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 07:33:03 PM
well the achdus ended quickly
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:34:19 PM
Sorry, but this whole "who did it" is pathetic.
And knocking others who worked tirelessly behind the scenes as doing nothing is even more pathetic.

well the achdus ended quickly
+1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 07:34:47 PM
Sorry, but this whole "who did it" is pathetic.
+1000000000000000000
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 24, 2017, 07:39:37 PM
They’re both tops in chesed to anyone in Klal Yisroel
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 24, 2017, 07:41:20 PM


Sorry, but this whole "who did it" is pathetic.
And knocking others who worked tirelessly behind the scenes as doing nothing is even more pathetic.

I think we are forgetting God.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshe123 on December 24, 2017, 07:41:37 PM
That article had me vomiting. Only a rag like VIN would publish it. I believe Dershowitz.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 24, 2017, 07:42:22 PM
To SMR left, https://twitter.com/ShimonRol editor from "the Shtern" who travelled to Postville in the very beginning, and he started the campaign to raise $
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:44:35 PM
To SMR left, https://twitter.com/ShimonRol editor from "the Shtern" who travelled to Postville in the very beginning, and he started the campaign to raise $
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:45:06 PM

I think we are forgetting God.
What, are we supposed to be holier than Yosef ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:45:19 PM
the first petetion to WH.gov. it was from the very first petitions if not the very first
I'm sure they did a world of good, but petitions...LOL.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/dansdeals/permalink/10152463247976041/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:45:43 PM
That article had me vomiting. Only a rag like VIN would publish it. I believe Dershowitz.
+1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 24, 2017, 07:46:12 PM
What, are we supposed to be holier than Yosef ;)
Or we can learn from his mistakes....
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:47:41 PM
Or we can learn from his mistakes....
Clearly Gd is involved, how else could DJT have won and could DJT's daughter convert to Judaism other than for this moment. :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 07:49:55 PM
.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 24, 2017, 07:50:14 PM
Clearly Gd is involved, how else could DJT have won and could DJT's daughter convert to Judaism other than for this moment. :)
Great now that that's clear we can also credit Mr. Dershowitz, Satmar, and Chabad and whoever else we want to credit, no one ever lost out by thanking an extra person (whoever it was definitely was involved somewhat)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 24, 2017, 07:50:39 PM
I'm sure they did a world of good, but petitions...LOL.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/dansdeals/permalink/10152463247976041/
It was the first petition and the response from WH showed the BS that the Obama gov tried to show
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 07:51:49 PM
Great now that that's clear we can also credit Mr. Dershowitz, Satmar, and Chabad and whoever else we want to credit, no one ever lost out by thanking an extra person (whoever it was definitely was involved somewhat)
For sure.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 24, 2017, 07:53:51 PM
I'll have you know I knew the whole time, it was my idea, my tatty is stronger than your tatty, and my tatty is a humongous fire truck. *with fingers in my ears * LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA! I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
I know you are, but what am I?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on December 24, 2017, 07:55:47 PM
there were people from all walks of life who helped out and it was done in such a positive way that to try to push to give credit to one group or another takes away from that

i sure people from  Satmar, Chabad and many other people who are not affiliated with either helped

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shlonx on December 24, 2017, 07:59:40 PM
Not to mention the thousands of tefillos and kappitlech of tehillim that were recited on his behalf by Yidden all around the globe.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on December 24, 2017, 08:00:40 PM
Great now that that's clear we can also credit Mr. Dershowitz, Satmar, and Chabad and whoever else we want to credit, no one ever lost out by thanking an extra person (whoever it was definitely was involved somewhat)

I don't know his current lawyer that well but as far as i know he is neither Satmar or Chabad
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: rs242 on December 24, 2017, 08:01:06 PM
Maybe he is just a little disappointed that chabad didn’t step up to the plate.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 24, 2017, 08:02:04 PM
I don't know his current lawyer that well but as far as i know he is neither Satmar or Chabad
I did miss plenty of people who deserve credit, including his lawyer. That was my point, we can thank everyone.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on December 24, 2017, 08:03:43 PM
I did miss plenty of people who deserve credit, including his lawyer. That was my point, we can thank everyone.

i know i am agreeing with you how ridiculous it is for someone to push credit towards one group or another when forgetting how many people were involved including his current pro-bono attorney
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Maybe he is just a little disappointed that chabad didn’t step up to the plate.
Except, they did. Mr Dershowitz confirmed this himself.
Maybe not shouting from the rooftops, but that's not the Chabad MO when it comes to political situations.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 24, 2017, 08:03:53 PM
Let’s not forget Rabbi Lish. The amount of chizuk he gave him over the years is unbelievable.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 08:06:51 PM
I don't know his current lawyer that well but as far as i know he is neither Satmar or Chabad
Last night in 770 he said he is Kopishnitz. And while Kopishnitz was always close to Lubavitch, SMR caused him to love Lubavitch (approximate quote).
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: A3 on December 24, 2017, 08:17:17 PM
Can I propose we split to thread to 'Who wore it better, Chabad or Satmar?'
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shlonx on December 24, 2017, 08:47:17 PM
i know i am agreeing with you how ridiculous it is for someone to push credit towards one group or another when forgetting how many people were involved including his current pro-bono attorney
I did miss plenty of people who deserve credit, including his lawyer. That was my point, we can thank everyone.

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2017, 09:44:56 PM
Can I propose we split to thread to 'Who wore it better, Chabad or Satmar?'
Hey! Let's not forget Lakewood and Pinny Lipschutz!  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 09:51:10 PM
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 09:54:01 PM
Hey! Let's not forget Lakewood and Pinny Lipschutz!  :)
Somehow all major news happens on Wednesday so it should miss the Yated
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2017, 09:57:36 PM
Somehow all major news happens on Wednesday so it should miss the Yated
Lol. I thought he would put out a special edition for Friday.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 24, 2017, 09:58:37 PM
Last night in 770 he said he is Kopishnitz. And while Kopishnitz was always close to Lubavitch, SMR caused him to love Lubavitch (approximate quote).
R' A.Y. Heschel's (Kapitchnitz Rebbe) daughter married a Gurary IIRC
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 10:11:18 PM
R' A.Y. Heschel's (Kapitchnitz Rebbe) daughter married a Gurary IIRC
Correct. Was also mentioned by Apfel last night. [Some of] the crowd took a gasp when he referred to her as חוה׳לע.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Correct. Was also mentioned by Apfel last night. [Some of] the crowd took a gasp when he referred to her as חוה׳לע.
Is there a recording?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: hvaces42 on December 24, 2017, 10:14:14 PM
Correct. Was also mentioned by Apfel last night. [Some of] the crowd took a gasp when he referred to her as חוה׳לע.
Gary is a Kapitchnitzer through and through. SMR actually davened in Kapitchinitz on 55th Street Shabbos night this week.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 10:27:37 PM
Is there a recording?
Asking around on whatsapp. Will post if I find.

Gary is a Kapitchnitzer through and through. SMR actually davened in Kapitchinitz on 55th Street Shabbos night this week.
He told the story of the Sadigerrer visiting him to daven with the omud that used to be the Kapitchnitzer's. The Sadigerrer told him that he visited Otisville and saw many yidden that were tzebrochen from their situation, and when he got to SMR, who had the longest sentence of any Yid there, he was expecting to see the most tzebrochene person, and was shocked to see the exact opposite. He told Chaim Yosef Apfel that he must do everything to get such a special person out.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 24, 2017, 10:42:37 PM
So has this now come to the point of who gets the most credit. Why doesn't someone just ask Trump?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 24, 2017, 10:44:54 PM
So has this now come to the point of who gets the most credit. Why doesn't someone just ask Trump?
OK, let me know what he says
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 24, 2017, 10:47:13 PM
Between Dershowitz and Kushner, could SMR have gotten released without the help of reform and modox Jews?
Who's reform?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 24, 2017, 10:49:51 PM
Is there a recording?
Here you go (starts with SMR himself).

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: joe1234 on December 24, 2017, 10:50:24 PM
OK, let me know what he says
He’s just going to say that he deserves all the credit and all that say otherwise is fake news...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 24, 2017, 10:50:33 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 24, 2017, 10:53:19 PM
So has this now come to the point of who gets the most credit. Why doesn't someone just ask Trump?
Who would believe him?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on December 24, 2017, 10:56:55 PM
Last night in 770 he said he is Kopishnitz. And while Kopishnitz was always close to Lubavitch, SMR caused him to love Lubavitch (approximate quote).
Was he the big litvishe looking guy that was being carried on shoulders, around 2am?
(can't tell from video)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 24, 2017, 10:57:34 PM
OK, let me know what he says
If I could I would.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on December 24, 2017, 10:58:37 PM
So has this now come to the point of who gets the most credit. Why doesn't someone just ask Trump?

OK, let me know what he says



If I could I would.

My point.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 24, 2017, 11:01:09 PM
My point.
My point was it seems some here have an inside track.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: IGBES on December 24, 2017, 11:38:54 PM
Was he the big litvishe looking guy that was being carried on shoulders, around 2am?
(can't tell from video)
Yes
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chff on December 25, 2017, 12:54:49 AM


SMR, who had the longest sentence of any Yid there

Did not have the longest
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: happinessNsunshine on December 25, 2017, 01:31:05 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/srulibesser/status/943629120780500992/photo/1

Amazing way SMR described his last day in prison, 1st day of freedom in the mishapacha in 2013
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 25, 2017, 03:21:36 AM
Here you go (starts with SMR himself).



He keeps on saying it was סייעתא דשמיא not Trump not Kushner and not the reform jews
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 25, 2017, 08:43:52 AM
He keeps on saying it was סייעתא דשמיא not Trump not Kushner and not the reform jews
מגלגלין זכות על ידי זכאי
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 25, 2017, 09:28:32 AM
סייעתא דשמיא
?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a mirrer on December 25, 2017, 09:31:00 AM
?
heaven's help
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: rs242 on December 25, 2017, 09:31:27 AM
?
Help from heaven. G-dly intervention
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 25, 2017, 01:58:20 PM
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21460
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on December 25, 2017, 02:02:33 PM
His credentials in the first 2 paragraphs are affirmation that their is no need to continue reading, if the title didnt get you there first.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on December 25, 2017, 05:31:10 PM
His credentials in the first 2 paragraphs are affirmation that their is no need to continue reading, if the title didnt get you there first.
+1
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21460
Why would you even link to this? Ugh.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 25, 2017, 05:41:56 PM
+1Why would you even link to this? Ugh.
For the same reason Rabbi Gordimer wrote it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 25, 2017, 09:03:28 PM
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21460
Just puked my dinner.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 25, 2017, 09:32:49 PM
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21460
Any comment?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 25, 2017, 09:40:01 PM
Any comment?
"your destroyers and those who laid you waste go out from you" -Isaiah 49:17
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 25, 2017, 10:00:09 PM
Thanks to former NY Gov. Patterson for trying
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1436325/listen-president-obama-denied-request-from-former-ny-gov-patterson-to-free-rubashkin.html
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 25, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1436310/op-ed-lets-stop-shooting-blanks-at-senator-schumer.html
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 25, 2017, 10:53:25 PM
"your destroyers and those who laid you waste go out from you" -Isaiah 49:17

Eh, on this one, the correct passuk is kashim gerim l'yisroel k'sapachas
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Bukboy on December 26, 2017, 11:12:44 AM
SM is simple not (yet) with us!!
He looks like a chosen by his chasuna x 10 :)
I was singing yesterday by the סעודת הודאה for immediate family and lawyer.
 
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 26, 2017, 03:23:58 PM
I don't really know enough about this case but from everything I understood there were laws broken, and time served. Yes I agree that the sentencing was too harsh. Yes I am thrilled he is out of prison. But all the partying does leave me feeling like something is slightly off.  I'm not saying he or the people are wrong or right.  Just that I'm left with this feeling that maybe that isn't the way to leave prison when you did in fact commit a crime and have to serve time for it.

Being happy is one thing. Partying is another. The whole ruckus and quotes from the media about his 'heros welcome' just didn't sit well with exactly.
Why I Danced for Rubashkin (http://bit.ly/RubashkinDancing)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: sky121 on December 26, 2017, 03:28:56 PM
Why I Danced for Rubashkin (http://bit.ly/RubashkinDancing)
Nice. I hear his point. Still not sure about it all. But alas it is what it is. Either way BH he's out.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 26, 2017, 03:32:43 PM
Why I Danced for Rubashkin (http://bit.ly/RubashkinDancing)

Wish I'd been in NY and could have gone there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 26, 2017, 03:58:01 PM
http://matzav.com/photo-president-trump-enjoys-watching-the-rubashkin-celebrations-too/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 26, 2017, 03:58:37 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/az16faurhwzfebe/SMR%20E-mail%20to%20R%20Halpern.pdf?dl=0
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 26, 2017, 04:12:35 PM
http://matzav.com/photo-president-trump-enjoys-watching-the-rubashkin-celebrations-too/
Is it real or #fakenews?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on December 26, 2017, 04:13:55 PM
Is it real or #fakenews?
Dunno I will defer to the photoshop experts or anyone with a source. The comments there say it is photoshopped from him conferencing with troops. Makes sense.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 26, 2017, 04:16:02 PM
Is it real or #fakenews?
Those sites have more #fakenews than the MSM.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ABC on December 26, 2017, 04:16:07 PM
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1436602/now-this-rubashkin-gets-two-children-into-lakewood-yeshivas-after-months-of-parents-trying.html
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 26, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
Dunno I will defer to the photoshop experts or anyone with a source.
I would hate to see you give more ammo for #fakenews.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on December 26, 2017, 04:31:08 PM
Wish I'd been in NY and could have gone there.
I spent a little time with him over the weekend and I felt as if I saw תחיית המתים. It was unreal
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 26, 2017, 04:34:37 PM
Wish I'd been in NY and could have gone there.

yes, a once in a lifetime experience. Like hei teves in the '80s.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 26, 2017, 04:41:21 PM
yes, a once in a lifetime experience. Like hei teves in the '80s.

At least this time there was live stream
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 26, 2017, 04:42:23 PM
Those sites have more #fakenews than the MSM.
But the comments were posted by real people. Sad.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on December 26, 2017, 04:50:46 PM
At least this time there was live stream
+1
yes, very good for us all across the USA to be able to see the action. It was basically 48 hrs, with possibly consuming the same amount alcohol in that 2-day time period as the 4-5 day Hei Teves in the 80's. But the sheer happiness, joy and unity from all areas is quite remarkable and amazing.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 26, 2017, 04:51:45 PM
yes, a once in a lifetime experience. Like hei teves in the '80s.

Were you there on Hei Teves?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 26, 2017, 05:10:32 PM
Were you there on Hei Teves?
There are some similarities, and some differences.

+1
yes, very good for us all across the USA to be able to see the action. It was basically 48 hrs, with possibly consuming the same amount alcohol in that 2-day time period as the 4-5 day Hei Teves in the 80's. But the sheer happiness, joy and unity from all areas is quite remarkable and amazing.
Alcohol consumption was much higher on Hei Teves 5747.

Spontaneous dancing started in front of 770 and continued there without moving indoors at least until Mincha (about 3.5 hours).

Crowd was more homogenous on Hei Teves 5747.

No one played music that was cut short as inappropriate for 770 on Hei Teves 5747, and the singer at the microphone was something totally different.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 26, 2017, 05:33:22 PM
There are some similarities, and some differences.
Alcohol consumption was much higher on Hei Teves 5747.

Spontaneous dancing started in front of 770 and continued there without moving indoors at least until Mincha (about 3.5 hours).

Crowd was more homogenous on Hei Teves 5747.

No one played music that was cut short as inappropriate for 770 on Hei Teves 5747, and the singer at the microphone was something totally different.

Lol - Yossi Piamenta was in front of 770 and he switched from didan notzach to a different niggun for a second. Immediately, someone whispered something into his ear and he was back on didan Notzach. (I was not there, this is from watching video)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 26, 2017, 07:05:59 PM
Lol - Yossi Piamenta was in front of 770 and he switched from didan notzach to a different niggun for a second. Immediately, someone whispered something into his ear and he was back on didan Notzach. (I was not there, this is from watching video)
Were you in 770 when Yoni Zigelbaum was trying to sing something and was cut short?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 26, 2017, 07:06:32 PM
Were you in 770 when Yoni Zigelbaum was trying to sing something and was cut short?
That was meilech kohn
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on December 26, 2017, 07:39:58 PM
Were you in 770 when Yoni Zigelbaum was trying to sing something and was cut short?

What did he try to sing?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on December 26, 2017, 07:46:21 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/390827/rubashkin-was-put-on-trial-but-so-were-we/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: chbochur on December 26, 2017, 07:49:27 PM
Were you in 770 when Yoni Zigelbaum was trying to sing something and was cut short?
Was there, yoni was not cut short it was meilach Kahn who decided it was appropriate to sing viahavta that was cut short and the singing (i believe) went back to yoni right after
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on December 26, 2017, 08:00:12 PM
https://forward.com/opinion/390827/rubashkin-was-put-on-trial-but-so-were-we/
Articles like these can help those who don't understand to understand even if they don't agree.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mendyt on December 26, 2017, 08:10:35 PM
"Rubashkins Saga did not only end with dancing, it began with it"

https://youtu.be/hnTj1cgVzYY
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 26, 2017, 08:28:02 PM
Was there, yoni was not cut short it was meilach Kahn who decided it was appropriate to sing viahavta that was cut short and the singing (i believe) went back to yoni right after
I stand corrected. Didn't notice who it was but later saw Yoni stepping down.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YitzyS on December 27, 2017, 07:53:36 AM
Anyone know where I can rent a forklift so that I can bring home my Yated this week?  ;)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 27, 2017, 08:31:31 AM
Anyone know where I can rent a forklift so that I can bring home my Yated this week?  ;)
Don't they have any leftovers at Encyclopedia Britannica?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on December 27, 2017, 09:46:14 AM
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Mordyk on December 27, 2017, 11:08:48 AM

try this one.   quality is way more enjoyable
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 27, 2017, 11:17:50 AM
try this one.   quality is way more enjoyable
Indeed. Good quality audio and video.

Am I the only one 'round here that found that I recognized more faces of the non-singers in this video (other than those that are known to daven nusach Ar"i + MBD & Lipa) than of any of the singers?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on December 27, 2017, 11:18:47 AM
try this one.   quality is way more enjoyable

Agree, I posted the other because it had all the names.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 27, 2017, 11:45:17 AM
Indeed. Good quality audio and video.

Am I the only one 'round here that found that I recognized more faces of the non-singers in this video (other than those that are known to daven nusach Ar"i + MBD & Lipa) than of any of the singers?

Coming from the guy who couldn't tell the difference between Yoni Z and Meilech Kohn. Stay in yo lane, bro.

Did you recognize Describe? He davens nusach Ari.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on December 27, 2017, 11:47:24 AM
SMR wrote this note while the judge was giving the crazy 27 year sentence

"Please stay strong through the ordeal. Tell the bochrim that I really loved learning with them, and Hashem should save me even in this time, and who really knows?

Just tell everybody I am unshaken in my faith of Hashem

A person goes through life, and we are only the avodim of Hashem so I am an eved of Hashem and accept what comes

Sholom Mordechai Halevi"

(https://i.imgur.com/6dayiDU.jpg)

ETA: It's hard to imagine what's going through someones mind when they find out they are getting 27 years, and to see this is inspiring...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 27, 2017, 11:52:51 AM
Coming from the guy who couldn't tell the difference between Yoni Z and Meilech Kohn. Stay in yo lane, bro.

I already responded to that one, saying that I didn't see who it was, but later on (or possibly just before) saw Yoni Z there, so assumed it was him.

Did you recognize Describe? He davens nusach Ari.
מה זה? מי זה?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on December 27, 2017, 11:59:56 AM
I already responded to that one, saying that I didn't see who it was, but later on (or possibly just before) saw Yoni Z there, so assumed it was him.
מה זה? מי זה?
Come around to the music thread and we can get into it
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 27, 2017, 12:13:19 PM
Come around to the music thread and we can get into it
There's a ניחח (http://chabadpedia.co.il/index.php/%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%97%22%D7%97) thread on DDF? Or is it a sefer hanigunim (http://chabadpedia.co.il/index.php/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8_%D7%94%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D) thread?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: a good yeshiva bachur on December 28, 2017, 03:23:06 AM
מה זה? מי זה?
Common, basics!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on December 30, 2017, 11:19:14 PM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on December 30, 2017, 11:20:51 PM
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
https://youtu.be/TJNrmkvLVqI?t=9m57s
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on January 01, 2018, 07:45:10 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdbCb-2BE_K/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 01, 2018, 07:57:47 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdbCb-2BE_K/
And even there someone decided it's place for a negative comment. Pathetic. Especially when the theme is unity.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on January 01, 2018, 09:05:24 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on January 02, 2018, 12:06:52 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Please tell me he knows that the mishebeirich for the US is said in thousands of shuls every Shabbos, right?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ilherman on January 02, 2018, 10:23:07 AM
IS the story about the make a wish org with the child who had his letter sent to Trump to free Rubashkin and Trump started crying when he read it, true?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on January 02, 2018, 10:24:45 AM
IS the story about the make a wish org with the child who had his letter sent to Trump to free Rubashkin and Trump started crying when he read it, true?
Ask Alan :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on January 02, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
IS the story about the make a wish org with the child who had his letter sent to Trump to free Rubashkin and Trump started crying when he read it, true?

Paging @Chaikel
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shlonx on January 02, 2018, 10:33:44 AM
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2018, 10:40:14 AM
Confirmed like the Kidney story?

Where did Dersh say all that?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mendyt on January 02, 2018, 11:03:01 AM
Confirmed like the Kidney story?

Where did Dersh say all that?
Chaikels e-mail (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180102/6587cbaf42db43f6ea257aad3c9a0757.jpg)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on January 02, 2018, 11:27:49 AM
IS the story about the make a wish org with the child who had his letter sent to Trump to free Rubashkin and Trump started crying when he read it, true?

Going around WhatsApp allegedly from the boy's aunt

 
Quote
Hi,
I just saw the 'beautiful story' by Rabbi Benssauson. ONLY the story is NoT True.
The hero in this story is my nephew, and while he placed the request to visit President Trump for the sake of releasing Rubashkin, he is NOT sick and NOT dying!
He is a healthy boy who is handicapped.
I shudder to think if this story gets back to the boy's father who is a chashuva person who shuns all social media and who humbly preferred this story in general doesn't get repeated.
However, to circulate a story about an otherwise healthy boy and describe him as 'dying with a terminal illness' is completely FALSE.
I respectfully request that you remove this post from instagram.
While the deed my nephew did is beautiful and inspiring, it is very hurtful to my family (and would be extremely hurtful to this special, selfless boy) to have it circulate that he is 'dying' when he is perfectly healthy.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on January 02, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Going around WhatsApp allegedly from the boy's aunt

 
So by rumor standards it is true.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 02, 2018, 11:34:07 AM
Is the story about the make a wish org with the child who had his letter sent to Trump to free Rubashkin and Trump started crying when he read it, true?

As per a Rubashkin family member voice note (verified by my personal voice analysis technology) there seems to be a sprinkling of truths - a teenager (not child) who B"H is not terminally ill but has a chronic condition did indeed send such a letter to Trump through the Make a Wish Foundation.

As for the affect on Trump, well ...
Chaikels e-mail

So basically, a perfectly nice story gets embellished to point of outright lies, undoing the beauty in the real story - all for the sake of inspiring the masses.
והה"ד אינספו של שקר לאו אינספו הוא
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2018, 11:42:44 AM
I heard it was the woman who had her kidney harvested that wrote the letter that brought tears to The Donald's eyes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2018, 11:43:47 AM
Am I the only one that was turned off from the video by the repeated emphasis of "Goyishe"?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Pad18 on January 02, 2018, 12:15:48 PM
Am I the only one that was turned off from the video by the repeated emphasis of "Goyishe"?

no, you were the only one that actually watches that video lol
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on January 02, 2018, 12:30:00 PM
Am I the only one that was turned off from the video by the repeated emphasis of "Goyishe"?

nope did not like it either and its a complaint i have with many speakers
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: beeweegee on January 02, 2018, 12:42:11 PM
Am I the only one that was turned off from the video by the repeated emphasis of "Goyishe"?
No, I cringed each time.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: JoeyShmoe on January 02, 2018, 12:59:42 PM
Going around WhatsApp allegedly from the boy's aunt
Yep, I know who wrote it. This part is definitely true :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: efflpetzel on January 02, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
I heard it was the woman who had her kidney harvested that wrote the letter that brought tears to The Donald's eyes.
;D ;D
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on January 02, 2018, 04:17:30 PM
Yep, I know who wrote it. This part is definitely true :)

it's not clear where this happened, and also if this was in May or June or during Chanukah. Maybe Alan Dershowiz can verify.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dave321 on January 02, 2018, 04:54:59 PM
confirmed yes. confirmed no. AUNT CONFIRMED.

cmon ppl. its nuts.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on January 02, 2018, 05:22:59 PM
its nuts.
Which part ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on January 02, 2018, 06:01:58 PM
no, you were the only one that actually watches that video lol
Am I the only one that was turned off from the video by the repeated emphasis of "Goyishe"?
No. and I also cringed when he said this is the first time the mishebeirech was said, and then proceeded to read something that is said in literally thousnads of shuls every shabbos. but @Chaikel  got some free advertising :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 02, 2018, 06:25:13 PM
I just got hit with a data overage on my cell phone plan. I am usually a very low data user.

Talking to Verizon now, seems like it was Dec. 21 - had to do with celebrations for SMR.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on January 02, 2018, 06:26:25 PM
I just got hit with a data overage on my cell phone plan. I am usually a very low data user.

Talking to Verizon now, seems like it was Dec. 21 - had to do with celebrations for SMR.

Email Dersh, maybe Trump can help

ETA: Also call Make a wish, maybe there's a kid can write a letter.

ETA: might want to check your kidneys
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: lubaby on January 02, 2018, 06:31:39 PM
I just got hit with a data overage on my cell phone plan. I am usually a very low data user.

Talking to Verizon now, seems like it was Dec. 21 - had to do with celebrations for SMR.
Zol Zain Ah Kapora!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 02, 2018, 06:52:42 PM
Email Dersh, maybe Trump can help

ETA: Also call Make a wish, maybe there's a kid can write a letter.

ETA: might want to check your kidneys
Can I just get @henche to sort this out for me.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on January 02, 2018, 06:53:14 PM
Can I just get @henche to sort this out for me.
Sure, for $1,000/hour :P
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 02, 2018, 06:54:23 PM
Sure, for $1,000/hour :P
Check is in the mail.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on January 02, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
Check is in the mail.
Plot twist: another henche gets to it first
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Chaikel on January 03, 2018, 02:26:17 AM
Confirmed like the Kidney story?

Where did Dersh say all that?
He emailed it to me
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: myi on January 04, 2018, 08:16:03 AM
He emailed it to me
If this whole story is in fact true why isn't this all over the media?  And why doesn't make a wish have this story posted on their website?
 As well did SMR go visit this teenager?

 Something doesn't sound right?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Ygold on January 04, 2018, 08:24:33 AM
From a frum Jewish website. (Not some garbage tabloid disguised as some sort of "Yeshiva" news or something...)

http://matzav.com/listen-the-story-of-the-boy-who-asked-trump-to-pardon-rubashkin-as-related-by-rabbi-y-hisiger/ (http://matzav.com/listen-the-story-of-the-boy-who-asked-trump-to-pardon-rubashkin-as-related-by-rabbi-y-hisiger/)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Ygold on January 04, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
From the Forward!
https://forward.com/scribe/391350/take-it-from-a-former-prisoner-that-rubashkin-survived-is-itself-a-heroic-a/ (https://forward.com/scribe/391350/take-it-from-a-former-prisoner-that-rubashkin-survived-is-itself-a-heroic-a/?attribution=home-top-story-1-headline)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on January 04, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
From the Forward!
https://forward.com/scribe/391350/take-it-from-a-former-prisoner-that-rubashkin-survived-is-itself-a-heroic-a/ (https://forward.com/scribe/391350/take-it-from-a-former-prisoner-that-rubashkin-survived-is-itself-a-heroic-a/?attribution=home-top-story-1-headline)

WOW! Amazing article and great perspective. PLUS, he inspired thousands of people and wrote hundreds of Divrei Torah while he was in there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Chaikel on January 04, 2018, 12:53:48 PM
If this whole story is in fact true why isn't this all over the media?  And why doesn't make a wish have this story posted on their website?
 As well did SMR go visit this teenager?

 Something doesn't sound right?
Why would a kid sending a letter to the President make the news. He probably gets millions a year
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YossieW on January 04, 2018, 01:02:17 PM
Why would a kid sending a letter to the President make the news. He probably gets millions a year
Yes he does but not under these circumstances

If this whole story is in fact true why isn't this all over the media?
good point because some parts of the media like feel good stories

And why doesn't make a wish have this story posted on their website?

Great Question
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: elya on January 04, 2018, 01:23:35 PM
Going around on Whatsapp:

The Inside Story: The Boy Who Asked Trump to Pardon Rubashkin: A Riveting Tale of What One Person Can Accomplish
By Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger -  Jan 3, 2018
It all started on visiting day during the summer of 2015.

The Friedmans were driving in the Catskills on Route 17, between Exits 96 and 97, when their car began emitting an awful smell. Mr. Friedman pulled over to the side of the highway to see if he could determine what the problem was. As soon as the car stopped, his children bounded out of it.

“Ta, is the car going to explode?” they asked, concerned.

Mr. Friedman examined his car, which had clearly seen better days. It was an older vehicle, and the smell could have been attributed to a number of things. But Mr. Friedman is no automobile expert, and he could not pinpoint the problem. He’d have to take it to a mechanic. But what mechanic could be found in that area, and which one would be open on a summer Sunday evening?

Mr. Friedman called Chaverim for their advice as he mulled his options.

At that moment, a van pulled over next to the Friedmans’ car and the driver, a frum woman, asked if they needed assistance. Mr. Friedman explained his predicament.

“There’s someone at our bungalow colony who is handy,” the woman said. “Come with me and let’s see if he can help.”

The Friedman kids weren’t getting back into their father’s old car, too scared of the possibilities, so they piled into the woman’s car, while Mr. and Mrs. Friedman followed behind. The duo made their way down a windy dirt Catskills road until they arrived at a bungalow colony.

After exiting their vehicles, the woman approached Mrs. Friedman. “During the drive,” she said, “your children told me a bit about you. They also told me your maiden name. Are you related to So-and-so?”

“Sure,” said Mrs. Friedman. “That’s my nephew! How do you know him?”

“Well, he’s friends with my husband,” said the woman.

“Really? Who’s your husband?”

“Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin,” said the woman.

The woman who had pulled over to help the Friedmans was none other than Mrs. Leah Rubashkin, who contacted the member of her colony who she thought could figure out what was causing the car trouble.

As the Friedmans shmoozed with Mrs. Rubashkin, the handy fellow inspected the car, which he found to be in working order. He said that the burning smell was nothing to be concerned about and that the Friedmans could safely drive their car back home.

The Friedmans thanked the man and Mrs. Rubashkin and began getting ready to leave, when Mrs. Rubashkin stopped them.

“Where are you going?” she asked.

“We’re going to head back home.”

“You can’t go home yet. You have to eat supper here first. We put up a barbecue. We have plenty of food. We even have meat from the shechitah that we know your nephew prefers, so you can feel comfortable.”

Mrs. Rubashkin’s invitation was so warm and sincere, the Friedmans couldn’t refuse it.

The Friedmans enjoyed the gala supper served by Mrs. Rubashkin and her family, whose kindness and generosity struck a chord. They were blown away by the warmth and graciousness shown to total strangers from the side of the road.

“Any news on your husband?” the Friedmans asked during dinner.

Mrs. Rubashkin smiled and pointed to her phone. “I’m waiting for his call. Any minute now, he may say that he’s coming home!” she said, demonstrating the unbreakable faith for which the Rubashkins are now known.

After dinner concluded, the Friedmans expressed their earnest gratitude to Mrs. Rubashkin for treating them like family and extending herself in such a special way.

The Friedmans drove back home to the city, arriving safe and sound, with no car problems en route. In fact, the car didn’t require any subsequent repairs. In retrospect, the trouble encountered on Route 17 seemed orchestrated from Above simply for them to meet up with Mrs. Rubashkin and be the beneficiaries of her chesed.

• • • •
The Friedmans’ son, Avi, is disabled. Some years ago, the Friedmans contacted the Make-A-Wish Foundation, a non-profit organization that arranges experiences – described as “wishes” – to children with serious medical conditions.

The foundation is famous for making dreams come true for children facing life-threatening illnesses, allowing them to have what they want, be what they want, or meet anyone they wish to meet.

Avi Friedman considered his options. Perhaps a trip to Eretz Yisroel with his entire family. Maybe a visit to the Swiss Alps for a week-long vacation. A two-week cruise. A dream ten-day trip to Disneyland. The options seemed endless.

Avi made a wish and waited for the foundation to respond.

At one point, Avi decided to change his wish. Rather than what he had selected earlier, he now wanted to meet the president of the United States. The foundation representative asked if he had any particular reason for his wish. Avi didn’t want to say.

To his family, however, he revealed his intent: Avi wished to meet President Donald Trump to request that he pardon Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin, incarcerated at Otisville prison, the victim of an unprecedented and unfair 27-year prison sentence.

Avi’s parents contacted askonim involved in the Rubashkin campaign to make sure that their efforts to reach the president on Sholom Mordechai’s behalf wouldn’t negatively impact any behind-the-scenes efforts to gain his release. The Rubashkin family, upon hearing of this disabled boy’s gesture, were supremely touched and it gave them tremendous chizuk.

The process began and Avi Friedman was placed on a waiting list, as there were some others who had also chosen to meet the president as their “wish.” The Friedmans were contacted thereafter by the Rubashkin family and advised to pen a letter to the legal team stating Avi’s wish.

It was during the Aseres Yemei Teshuvah, about three months ago, when Avi and his parents sat at their kitchen table to write a letter addressed to Attorney Alan Dershowitz, encouraging him to keep up his fight on behalf of Sholom Mordechai and stating that they are aware of his efforts. The letter highlighted the injustice perpetrated against Sholom Mordechai.

In the letter, Avi’s mother explained on his behalf that his disability has placed him on the receiving end of much kindness shown to him by organizations and others, and he wished to have the opportunity to give back and help someone else. Thus, his wish is to meet the president and ask him to pardon Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin. The letter added that the family knows the Rubashkins, from whose kindness they themselves had benefitted. It also mentioned that Avi couldn’t fathom how the Rubashkins are managing with an autistic child whose father is not home.

The Friedmans viewed the letter as merely a means of participating in the tzaar of another Yid and doing hishtadlus in the mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim.

And then, on Wednesday, December 20, Zos Chanukah, known as the day of the “gemar chasimah,” Sholom Mordechai was released from prison, his sentence having been commuted by President Trump.

In short order, Mr. Friedman received a phone call from Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky of The Aleph Institute, who stated that the Rubashkins wanted to meet him, his son and his family to thank them.

The letter written by Avi, it was explained, was actually lying on the president’s desk during the week of Chanukah.

Amidst the many efforts expended on behalf of Sholom Mordechai was a letter authored by a disabled boy from New York, who could have chosen any of a number of exciting and scintillating trips and gifts, but instead wanted a meeting with the leader of the free world so that he could plead for another Yid’s freedom.

We may never know the true role that this letter played in the end, but I surmised during a lengthy conversation with Mr. Friedman that perhaps it was the zechus of Avi’s very act of selflessness that carried enough weight in the Heavenly realms to bring about the yeshuah we had been praying and hoping for.

Reb Sholom Mordechai has been reunited with his family, as Klal Yisroel watches with tears in their eyes and hearts full of emotion. And somewhere among Klal Yisroel sits a disabled boy whose dream came true and whose merits we cannot fathom.

During his whirlwind return, last Tuesday, Reb Sholom Mordechai, his family and his attorney paid a visit to the Friedman home, where Sholom Mordechai met the teenage hero who had written a letter that made it to President Trump. They embraced and held each other’s hands, sharing emotions that couldn’t be expressed in words.

Looking on were Mr. and Mrs. Friedman, the proudest parents in the world.

But Mr. Friedman doesn’t just want this to be shared and forwarded as a touching story. He told me that he wants lessons to be learned about “mi ke’amcha Yisroel.”

“We should learn from my son that Yidden can help other Yidden, even if it means giving something up to do so,” said Mr. Friedman. “That is what this teenage boy did.

“Furthermore, you never know what the far-reaching effects of a little deed for someone else, like writing a letter, can be. Never underestimate the power of a seemingly small act.

“And finally, look at my son, a child in a wheelchair, who was able to accomplish what many powerful and influential people could not. Never underestimate people. The power of one person is inestimable.”

Avi told me that his tefillos this Chanukah were “answered in a real way.”

“I asked Hashem to show me a sign,” he said, “and He did.”

Some names have been changed, but all details have been verified with the parties involved.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Chaikel on January 04, 2018, 01:27:52 PM
https://www.facebook.com/JakeTurxWhiteHouseBriefings/videos/323454254838727/?notif_id=1515019592128193&notif_t=live_video

12:30
Turx first hand accounts from a senior Whitehouse official involved in the commutation
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 04, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Going around on Whatsapp:

The Inside Story: The Boy Who Asked Trump to Pardon Rubashkin: A Riveting Tale of What One Person Can Accomplish
By Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger -  Jan 3, 2018
It all started on visiting day during the summer of 2015.

The Friedmans were driving in the Catskills on Route 17, between Exits 96 and 97, when their car began emitting an awful smell. Mr. Friedman pulled over to the side of the highway to see if he could determine what the problem was. As soon as the car stopped, his children bounded out of it.

“Ta, is the car going to explode?” they asked, concerned.

Mr. Friedman examined his car, which had clearly seen better days. It was an older vehicle, and the smell could have been attributed to a number of things. But Mr. Friedman is no automobile expert, and he could not pinpoint the problem. He’d have to take it to a mechanic. But what mechanic could be found in that area, and which one would be open on a summer Sunday evening?

Mr. Friedman called Chaverim for their advice as he mulled his options.

At that moment, a van pulled over next to the Friedmans’ car and the driver, a frum woman, asked if they needed assistance. Mr. Friedman explained his predicament.

“There’s someone at our bungalow colony who is handy,” the woman said. “Come with me and let’s see if he can help.”

The Friedman kids weren’t getting back into their father’s old car, too scared of the possibilities, so they piled into the woman’s car, while Mr. and Mrs. Friedman followed behind. The duo made their way down a windy dirt Catskills road until they arrived at a bungalow colony.

After exiting their vehicles, the woman approached Mrs. Friedman. “During the drive,” she said, “your children told me a bit about you. They also told me your maiden name. Are you related to So-and-so?”

“Sure,” said Mrs. Friedman. “That’s my nephew! How do you know him?”

“Well, he’s friends with my husband,” said the woman.

“Really? Who’s your husband?”

“Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin,” said the woman.

The woman who had pulled over to help the Friedmans was none other than Mrs. Leah Rubashkin, who contacted the member of her colony who she thought could figure out what was causing the car trouble.

As the Friedmans shmoozed with Mrs. Rubashkin, the handy fellow inspected the car, which he found to be in working order. He said that the burning smell was nothing to be concerned about and that the Friedmans could safely drive their car back home.

The Friedmans thanked the man and Mrs. Rubashkin and began getting ready to leave, when Mrs. Rubashkin stopped them.

“Where are you going?” she asked.

“We’re going to head back home.”

“You can’t go home yet. You have to eat supper here first. We put up a barbecue. We have plenty of food. We even have meat from the shechitah that we know your nephew prefers, so you can feel comfortable.”

Mrs. Rubashkin’s invitation was so warm and sincere, the Friedmans couldn’t refuse it.

The Friedmans enjoyed the gala supper served by Mrs. Rubashkin and her family, whose kindness and generosity struck a chord. They were blown away by the warmth and graciousness shown to total strangers from the side of the road.

“Any news on your husband?” the Friedmans asked during dinner.

Mrs. Rubashkin smiled and pointed to her phone. “I’m waiting for his call. Any minute now, he may say that he’s coming home!” she said, demonstrating the unbreakable faith for which the Rubashkins are now known.

After dinner concluded, the Friedmans expressed their earnest gratitude to Mrs. Rubashkin for treating them like family and extending herself in such a special way.

The Friedmans drove back home to the city, arriving safe and sound, with no car problems en route. In fact, the car didn’t require any subsequent repairs. In retrospect, the trouble encountered on Route 17 seemed orchestrated from Above simply for them to meet up with Mrs. Rubashkin and be the beneficiaries of her chesed.

• • • •
The Friedmans’ son, Avi, is disabled. Some years ago, the Friedmans contacted the Make-A-Wish Foundation, a non-profit organization that arranges experiences – described as “wishes” – to children with serious medical conditions.

The foundation is famous for making dreams come true for children facing life-threatening illnesses, allowing them to have what they want, be what they want, or meet anyone they wish to meet.

Avi Friedman considered his options. Perhaps a trip to Eretz Yisroel with his entire family. Maybe a visit to the Swiss Alps for a week-long vacation. A two-week cruise. A dream ten-day trip to Disneyland. The options seemed endless.

Avi made a wish and waited for the foundation to respond.

At one point, Avi decided to change his wish. Rather than what he had selected earlier, he now wanted to meet the president of the United States. The foundation representative asked if he had any particular reason for his wish. Avi didn’t want to say.

To his family, however, he revealed his intent: Avi wished to meet President Donald Trump to request that he pardon Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin, incarcerated at Otisville prison, the victim of an unprecedented and unfair 27-year prison sentence.

Avi’s parents contacted askonim involved in the Rubashkin campaign to make sure that their efforts to reach the president on Sholom Mordechai’s behalf wouldn’t negatively impact any behind-the-scenes efforts to gain his release. The Rubashkin family, upon hearing of this disabled boy’s gesture, were supremely touched and it gave them tremendous chizuk.

The process began and Avi Friedman was placed on a waiting list, as there were some others who had also chosen to meet the president as their “wish.” The Friedmans were contacted thereafter by the Rubashkin family and advised to pen a letter to the legal team stating Avi’s wish.

It was during the Aseres Yemei Teshuvah, about three months ago, when Avi and his parents sat at their kitchen table to write a letter addressed to Attorney Alan Dershowitz, encouraging him to keep up his fight on behalf of Sholom Mordechai and stating that they are aware of his efforts. The letter highlighted the injustice perpetrated against Sholom Mordechai.

In the letter, Avi’s mother explained on his behalf that his disability has placed him on the receiving end of much kindness shown to him by organizations and others, and he wished to have the opportunity to give back and help someone else. Thus, his wish is to meet the president and ask him to pardon Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin. The letter added that the family knows the Rubashkins, from whose kindness they themselves had benefitted. It also mentioned that Avi couldn’t fathom how the Rubashkins are managing with an autistic child whose father is not home.

The Friedmans viewed the letter as merely a means of participating in the tzaar of another Yid and doing hishtadlus in the mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim.

And then, on Wednesday, December 20, Zos Chanukah, known as the day of the “gemar chasimah,” Sholom Mordechai was released from prison, his sentence having been commuted by President Trump.

In short order, Mr. Friedman received a phone call from Rabbi Zvi Boyarsky of The Aleph Institute, who stated that the Rubashkins wanted to meet him, his son and his family to thank them.

The letter written by Avi, it was explained, was actually lying on the president’s desk during the week of Chanukah.

Amidst the many efforts expended on behalf of Sholom Mordechai was a letter authored by a disabled boy from New York, who could have chosen any of a number of exciting and scintillating trips and gifts, but instead wanted a meeting with the leader of the free world so that he could plead for another Yid’s freedom.

We may never know the true role that this letter played in the end, but I surmised during a lengthy conversation with Mr. Friedman that perhaps it was the zechus of Avi’s very act of selflessness that carried enough weight in the Heavenly realms to bring about the yeshuah we had been praying and hoping for.

Reb Sholom Mordechai has been reunited with his family, as Klal Yisroel watches with tears in their eyes and hearts full of emotion. And somewhere among Klal Yisroel sits a disabled boy whose dream came true and whose merits we cannot fathom.

During his whirlwind return, last Tuesday, Reb Sholom Mordechai, his family and his attorney paid a visit to the Friedman home, where Sholom Mordechai met the teenage hero who had written a letter that made it to President Trump. They embraced and held each other’s hands, sharing emotions that couldn’t be expressed in words.

Looking on were Mr. and Mrs. Friedman, the proudest parents in the world.

But Mr. Friedman doesn’t just want this to be shared and forwarded as a touching story. He told me that he wants lessons to be learned about “mi ke’amcha Yisroel.”

“We should learn from my son that Yidden can help other Yidden, even if it means giving something up to do so,” said Mr. Friedman. “That is what this teenage boy did.

“Furthermore, you never know what the far-reaching effects of a little deed for someone else, like writing a letter, can be. Never underestimate the power of a seemingly small act.

“And finally, look at my son, a child in a wheelchair, who was able to accomplish what many powerful and influential people could not. Never underestimate people. The power of one person is inestimable.”

Avi told me that his tefillos this Chanukah were “answered in a real way.”

“I asked Hashem to show me a sign,” he said, “and He did.”

Some names have been changed, but all details have been verified with the parties involved.
Too short to read on DDF.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: elya on January 04, 2018, 01:29:25 PM
Too short to read on DDF.
Lol sorry about that.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on January 04, 2018, 01:32:34 PM
So will President meet the kid?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on January 04, 2018, 02:00:46 PM
Too short to read on DDF.
Looks like it was written by Dumas and paid by the line. (What she writes about Dickens seems to be imprecise (https://dickens.ucsc.edu/resources/faq/by-the-word.html)-he was paid by the installment, but that too rewards for length)

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on January 04, 2018, 02:05:23 PM
https://www.facebook.com/JakeTurxWhiteHouseBriefings/videos/323454254838727/?notif_id=1515019592128193&notif_t=live_video

12:30
Turx first hand accounts from a senior Whitehouse official involved in the commutation

So, Turx is an official US news reporter? He is allowed to enter White House grounds at night? Fascinating.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: myi on January 04, 2018, 02:52:25 PM
He emailed it to me
Yes he does but not under these circumstances
good point because some parts of the media like feel good stories

Great Question
Wow very inspiring story, this version sounds a bit better then all the other ones..
 Like mentioned mi ki'amcha yisroel.
   If only we will take from this story not to underestimate ourselves and visualize the potential of how one tiny small chesed could be and what the effect can be..
 And beh should we takka be zoche for all the small deeds that klal yisroel does for one another to bring the final geula. 
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 06, 2018, 06:51:39 PM
Can we get the kid to write Trump a letter to step down?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 08:45:35 AM
In contrast:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-05/payday-loan-mogul-trades-ferraris-racing-life-for-prison-term

Only 17 years.

SMR is out, but Linda Reade shouldn't be left off the hook!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 09:36:27 AM
In contrast:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-05/payday-loan-mogul-trades-ferraris-racing-life-for-prison-term

Only 17 years.

SMR is out, but Linda Reade shouldn't be left off the hook!
I have been told my times (tax thread) why am I worried about what someone else is getting. So I will ask you the same thing.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on January 07, 2018, 10:16:52 AM
I have been told my times (tax thread) why am I worried about what someone else is getting. So I will ask you the same thing.
Can you explain how the two are comparable?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 10:50:06 AM
I have been told my times (tax thread) why am I worried about what someone else is getting. So I will ask you the same thing.

From the article headlines:

Quote

Prosecutors said Tucker stole $1.3 billion from poor customers

Supposedly the "justification" for SMRs sentence was the amount of losses incurred by the banks.

Seems like here despite a much larger amount, sentence is shorter. (Besides for other striking differences).

As someone said recently about ducks...

Let me say it in unequivocal terms: Linda Reade is a blatant antisemite!  This case is just תנא דמסייע, doesn't prove anything.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 12:21:32 PM
Let me say it in unequivocal terms: Linda Reade is a blatant antisemite!  This case is just תנא דמסייע, doesn't prove anything.
Never heard of this judge before. Does she have a history of giving Jews harsher sentences? If so was this brought up on appeal?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 12:41:02 PM
Never heard of this judge before. Does she have a history of giving Jews harsher sentences? If so was this brought up on appeal?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_R._Reade

I don't know how many Jews were sentenced by her. It's not like she was a judge in the southern district of New York.

But her actions on the Rubashkin case scream louder than anything else.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 12:46:32 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_R._Reade

I don't know how many Jews were sentenced by her. It's not like she was a judge in the southern district of New York.

But her actions on the Rubashkin case scream louder than anything else.
If you are going to make a claim someone is an anti-Semite you should have some facts to back it up. If you are going to condemn her then you need to condemn our entire legal system. All the way to the SC agreed with her.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 12:55:51 PM
If you are going to make a claim someone is an anti-Semite you should have some facts to back it up. If you are going to condemn her then you need to condemn our entire legal system. All the way to the SC agreed with her.
Not wanting to overturn a judge's action doesn't mean agreeing.

One doesn't always get justice out of our legal system, but a system is in place, and once something is done, overturning it is something that has a higher burden of proof.

As I said, I am not going to prove anything, and I don't know if it can be proved, but using the duck analogy.... even if it's only on one case.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 01:03:54 PM
As I said, I am not going to prove anything, and I don't know if it can be proved, but using the duck analogy.... even if it's only on one case.
If you are only going to use one case then you have no case. Were the prosecutors also anti-Semites? Weren't they also going to ask for life?

He is out and why not just focus on that? If you are going to retry the case please do it with the facts.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dan on January 07, 2018, 01:07:16 PM
Nothing to do with A-S claims, but her hands were hardly clean:
http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/08/a-federal-judge-put-hundreds-of-immigrants-behind-bars-while-her-husband-invested-in-private-prisons/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2018, 01:09:25 PM
Were the prosecutors also anti-Semites? Weren't they also going to ask for life?
Let’s remember that prosecutors sought 25 years
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 01:18:19 PM
Nothing to do with A-S claims, but her hands were hardly clean:
http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/08/a-federal-judge-put-hundreds-of-immigrants-behind-bars-while-her-husband-invested-in-private-prisons/
This would be a better argument for giving longer sentences but a weak one at that. Pretty hard for the limited amount of cases she had to effect the stock price.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 01:20:29 PM
He is out and why not just focus on that? If you are going to retry the case please do it with the facts.

Indeed, we focus on the fact that he's out. The case is not going to be retried.

I think you will have a hard time convincing people around here that Linda Reade isn't an antisemite. I am not going to argue facts, it's just the smell test. This is not a court of law where a presumption of innocence exists, and one is innocent until proven guilty. This is the court of public opinion, backed by thousands of years of experience. And since there's no earthly court penalty for being an antisemite, there isn't a requirement or a burden of proof.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 01:23:04 PM
I think you will have a hard time convincing people around here that Linda Reade isn't an antisemite.
I agree 100%.
I am not going to argue facts, it's just the smell test.
If the facts say otherwise I would go with the smell test also.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dawie on January 07, 2018, 01:24:14 PM
http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1793

apparently she known for always giving the max
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 01:27:53 PM

...but didn't they originally ask for a life sentence?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 01:29:23 PM
http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1793

apparently she known for always giving the max
Sounds like Trump would love her.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: TimT on January 07, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
Sounds like Trump would love her.  :)
Apparently not
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 01:41:12 PM
Apparently not
Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on January 07, 2018, 02:08:47 PM
...but didn't they originally ask for a life sentence?
No. 25 yrs.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 02:22:31 PM
No. 25 yrs.
So this is not accurate?

Rubashkin's sentencing hearing took place on April 28–29 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Prosecutors asked Judge Reade to impose a life sentence. After that request came under fire from former Justice Department officials, including six former Attorneys General, one former solicitor general and more than a dozen former United States attorneys, Assistant U.S. Attorney Pete Deegan said in court that the government would seek 25 years, while the defense asked for no more than six years.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Jellybelly on January 07, 2018, 02:29:44 PM
I don’t have facts of the story 100% but I know another yid was in court there a couple yrs later. And someone mentioned that we’ll get you like we got rabashkin. I highly doubt it was the judge but I think it was the prosecutor or someone like that
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 02:37:30 PM
So this is not accurate?

Rubashkin's sentencing hearing took place on April 28–29 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Prosecutors asked Judge Reade to impose a life sentence. After that request came under fire from former Justice Department officials, including six former Attorneys General, one former solicitor general and more than a dozen former United States attorneys, Assistant U.S. Attorney Pete Deegan said in court that the government would seek 25 years, while the defense asked for no more than six years.
If that is indeed fact, then yes, the prosecutors were/are blatant antisemites.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
If that is indeed fact, then yes, the prosecutors were/are blatant antisemites.
Why would you make such a statement? You lose all credibility.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Why would you make such a statement? You lose all credibility.
Life sentence?

For what?

This wasn't a Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme.

Yes, it was bank fraud. Does one get a life sentence for $27MM Bank Fraud? I am not going to do any research on this, I will let you do it. Please let me know of similar cases where a life sentence was sought.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 02:53:35 PM
Life sentence?

For what?

This wasn't a Bernie Madoff Ponzi Scheme.

Yes, it was bank fraud. Does one get a life sentence for $27MM Bank Fraud?
They could just be hard nose prosecutors. My guess is from the little I read it has to do with the child labor charges the Feds dropped after this conviction.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on January 07, 2018, 03:07:52 PM
So this is not accurate?

Rubashkin's sentencing hearing took place on April 28–29 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Prosecutors asked Judge Reade to impose a life sentence. After that request came under fire from former Justice Department officials, including six former Attorneys General, one former solicitor general and more than a dozen former United States attorneys, Assistant U.S. Attorney Pete Deegan said in court that the government would seek 25 years, while the defense asked for no more than six years.

if so, i stand corrected.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on January 07, 2018, 03:10:08 PM
If you are going to make a claim someone is an anti-Semite you should have some facts to back it up. If you are going to condemn her then you need to condemn our entire legal system. All the way to the SC agreed with her.

J'accuse, baby
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on January 07, 2018, 04:19:31 PM
J'accuse, baby
Couldn't have stated it better. Put the whole story in one potent word!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 04:31:38 PM
Couldn't have stated it better. Put the whole story in one potent word!
I could use one (actually two) word but you wouldn’t like it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CS1 on January 07, 2018, 04:54:33 PM
They could just be hard nose prosecutors. My guess is from the little I read it has to do with the child labor charges the Feds dropped after this conviction.

they were trying to wreck the entire plant re-purchase from the beginning. They did not allow the buyers who offered $40 million to speak or get advice from the brother or father of SM Rubashkin. So that buyer pulled out and an $8 or $9 million buyer got the plant at a super low price. Then they based the $27 million loss on the buyout price. OBVIOUSLY if the $40 million buyer would have been allowed to buy it and consult once in a while with the father, then there would not be a $27 million debt.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2018, 05:14:51 PM
My guess is from the little I read it has to do with the child labor charges the Feds dropped after this conviction.
You mean those 9,000 charges that they (state, not federal) initially brought, then took only the ~15 they thought they could make stick to trial and even those he was found not guilty?

It must be those, because everyone he thinks he should still be sitting in jail keeps referencing the child labor...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2018, 05:26:13 PM
If you are going to make a claim someone is an anti-Semite you should have some facts to back it up. If you are going to condemn her then you need to condemn our entire legal system. All the way to the SC agreed with her.
I don't know how much of this story was really about anti-semitism, but yes, it's certainly quite condemning on our entire legal (or as it's more commonly called, "justice") system.

Oh and unless my memory is totally failing me here, SCOTUS didn't agree with her, they just didn't take up the case.

And you can't really blame the appeals court for not going against her. I mean after 2/3 of them sat together with her on other cases earlier that day you can't really expect them to go against her.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on January 07, 2018, 05:35:17 PM
I don't think that conservative judges are a good thing for us. Social issues that have no real life ramifications aside, you end up with Linda Reade, a Bush appointee who sentences strictly with no consideration for the story.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 05:37:44 PM
You mean those 9,000 charges that they (state, not federal) initially brought, then took only the ~15 they thought they could make stick to trial and even those he was found not guilty?
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please let’s not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on January 07, 2018, 05:40:52 PM
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please let’s not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.
I don't believe there was intentional child labor. Remember, it's dangerous ground, and often illegal, to ask age or even legal status. Puts employers in a real bind, as many employers and small business owners here can attest to.
The way we find out a social is fake is only when the IRS alerts us months after the first filings, sometimes years.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 05:52:20 PM
I don't believe there was intentional child labor. Remember, it's dangerous ground, and often illegal, to ask age or even legal status. Puts employers in a real bind, as many employers and small business owners here can attest to.
The way we find out a social is fake is only when the IRS alerts us months after the first filings, sometimes years.
Glad you used the word intentional because we all know child labor was employed. I believe that has at the heart of the stiff sentencing.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2018, 05:54:12 PM
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud.
Are you sure about there being child labor charges there? AFAICR that was the immigration charges.

Please let’s not pretend there was no child labor.
1. The question is not if anyone underage was working there, but rather was it criminal in nature? i.e. did the management know and encourage it? Because when they tried to prove that part in court he was acquitted on all charges.

2. Am  I understanding you correctly? are you saying the sentence was justified because of the child labor allegations?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 05:55:58 PM
Are you sure about there being child labor charges there? AFAICR that was the immigration charges.
No I am not sure.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2018, 05:58:01 PM
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please let’s not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.
1) They did not drop child labor charges. He was acquitted in state court. They dropped illegal immigration charges.

It's far from a given they dropped because they already had the sentence they wanted and would have nailed him on those, because a) those charges were there first. If it was such a given, they could have nailed him before the bank fraud even happened. B) Hiring illegals doesn't mean you did it on purpose - the illegals provide false papers to get hired. Not hiring because you suspect they are false is illegal in its own right. This happens even with companies that had e-verify in place. See the 2 part series This American Life did a couple of weeks ago on poultry plants in Alabama. He was the first and only such meat/poultry executive that was gone after like this.

2) You have brought up that this went "all the way to the SC," even thought you've been answered multiple times that because the Supreme Court doesn't take a case, doesn't mean it's because they agree. They only take cases they think have wider application not just for the individuals involved.

3) Lower appeals were lost not because they didn't prove prosecutorial or judicial misconduct, but because he would have been guilty regardless of those accusations. Which is true. He committed the fraud, no one argues that. (but see the link at the end to see why even this is ridiculous.)

Linda Reade has a history of cruel and vicious sentencing, beyond what prosecutors ask for and what guidelines suggest. So I don't know if she is an anti semite or just an awful human being, period.

As for the prosecution, there is more of a case for antisemitism. From the beginning of singling out his plant for the raid, right through denying him bail based on his religion (overturned by another judge) and meddling in the sale of his business to up his sentence.

This case stunk. There are loads of articles on the left and right side of the spectrum, from Jew and non-jew alike, decrying the prosecution and justice, with plenty calling it antisemitic.

Read this for more details
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/thirteen-outrages-in-the-rubashkin-prosecution/2018/01/03/

If even 3 of those 13 are true, it's an outrage. I venture you'd be unable to disprove a single one.

Now, what other excuse is there for such misconduct other than antisemitism?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 05:59:30 PM
2. Am  I understanding you correctly? are you saying the sentence was justified because of the child labor allegations
I never said the sentence was justified. I am just guessing what would cause such a stiff sentence.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2018, 06:00:03 PM


I believe that has at the heart of the stiff sentencing.

That. Is. Illegal.

You cannot sentence someone for bank fraud based on other unproven charges.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 06:13:17 PM

That. Is. Illegal.

You cannot sentence someone for bank fraud based on other unproven charges.
I agree and it is done all the time.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on January 07, 2018, 06:18:47 PM
Glad you used the word intentional because we all know child labor was employed. I believe that has at the heart of the stiff sentencing.

That. Is. Illegal.

You cannot sentence someone for bank fraud based on other unproven charges.
I agree and it is done all the time.
that's not an excuse, and is such, child labor should not be brought in to excuse Ms. Reade.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on January 07, 2018, 06:20:19 PM
Now, what other excuse is there for such misconduct other than antisemitism?
Well one other possibility is just plain old fashioned corruption, maybe they were bought off by the unions who were warring with Rubashkin?

Whatever the motivation was, this entire case stinks from beginning to end. Is there any argument about that? Or are we only arguing about the motives of the judge and prosecution?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on January 07, 2018, 06:22:50 PM
I don't think that conservative judges are a good thing for us. Social issues that have no real life ramifications aside, you end up with Linda Reade, a Bush appointee who sentences strictly with no consideration for the story.
This had nothing to do with right/left, the prosecutor was a Dem, for years the local media didn't stop bashing Rubashkin and co and that led to the government doing what they did...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: thaber on January 07, 2018, 06:25:36 PM
This had nothing to do with right/left, the prosecutor was a Dem, for years the local media didn't stop bashing Rubashkin and co and that led to the government doing what they did...
I agree. But she is known for long and cruel sentences, and I'm sure that played a part in addition to what you mentioned. And that part was coming from a conservative perspective and bias
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2018, 06:26:29 PM
Well one other possibility is just plain old fashioned corruption, maybe they were bought off by the unions who were warring with Rubashkin?

Whatever the motivation was, this entire case stinks from beginning to end. Is there any argument about that? Or are we only arguing about the motives of the judge and prosecution?
I think the unions are what got things rolling. Many of the allegations against Rubashkin quoted in the media come from them. Remember, Obama even brought up Rubashkin campaigning in Iowa. So IMHO it's definitely not all antisemitism. But once they destroyed him and his company, why continue fighting so dirty?

Yes, we all agree it stinks worse than Chatalet station. (where are my Brunoy alumni at?)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on January 07, 2018, 06:34:09 PM
Isn’t this so-called anti-Semitic judge the one who reversed the decision and gave him bail? Wasn’t her sentence with in federal guidelines?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on January 07, 2018, 07:23:36 PM
Isn’t this so-called anti-Semitic judge the one who reversed the decision and gave him bail? Wasn’t her sentence with in federal guidelines?
1) Yes.
2) Read the above links and the briefs written in support of Rubashkin.
A) Even if technically within the guidelines, they went against the spirit of the guidelines, as stated by the very people who wrote them and common sense. Using the "guidelines" as cover is disingenuous at best.
B) The charges were inflated artificially in numerous ways purely to game the guidelines and get the inhumane sentence. Again, read the links above to see how. An honest judge would see through that.
C) She gave a longer sentence than even the prosecution asked for, which I believe was a couple of years beyond the guidelines. She has done the same for many other defendants.

Again, I personally don't know that there is evidence *she* is an anti semite. There is plenty of evidence she is a terrible judge.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Baruch on January 11, 2018, 04:07:51 PM
https://vimeo.com/250684062
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shlonx on January 22, 2018, 11:27:10 AM
https://matzav.com/watch-mk-eichler-thanks-vp-pence-for-sm-rubashkins-commutation/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Definitions on February 01, 2018, 10:00:45 AM
Hmmm

(https://preview.ibb.co/mFYj9R/IMG_20180131_WA0000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d2i6Om)
upload from web (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:02:43 AM
Hmmm

(https://preview.ibb.co/mFYj9R/IMG_20180131_WA0000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d2i6Om)
upload from web (https://imgbb.com/)
This is sick.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on February 01, 2018, 10:06:26 AM
you mean that in a good way.. I hope
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:10:32 AM
you mean that in a good way.. I hope
Oh no.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on February 01, 2018, 10:12:21 AM
Oh no.

There are much greater otrosities in the world that you can focus on. Try to use the love you have for yourself and for other jews.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Amusch on February 01, 2018, 10:14:10 AM
There are much greater otrosities in the world that you can focus on. Try to use the love you have for yourself and for other jews.

I've kept my mouth shut on this whole thread, but can we please acknowledge that this is a little silly, and retire the "greater otrosities in the world that you can focus on" argument for a while.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:14:41 AM


There are much greater otrosities in the world that you can focus on. Try to use the love you have for yourself and for other jews.

Really? This one is quite terrible, and if other Atrocities are posted here, I'll possibly respond, but I'm not running after them
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Definitions on February 01, 2018, 10:17:30 AM
Guys come on, it's obviously not a serious thing (והראיה from the fact that it says תשעח). It looks like it was given to him as a present. I'll post the other picture in a minute.

(https://preview.ibb.co/gr0ER6/IMG_20180131_WA0001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hPbom6)
upload from web (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on February 01, 2018, 10:19:26 AM
it is silly... so what! one person made it and probably did on his own accord, doesnt mean it is "sick". Only someone who is engulfed in machlokes will present it that way...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:20:48 AM
it is silly... so what! one person made it and probably did on his own accord, doesnt mean it is "sick". Only someone who is engulfed in machlokes will present it that way...
Very prejudice IMO
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on February 01, 2018, 10:22:52 AM
Very prejudice IMO

So you think your not sick :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 10:23:47 AM
I've kept my mouth shut on this whole thread, but can we please acknowledge that this is a little silly, and retire the "greater otrosities in the world that you can focus on" argument for a while.
Does anyone say it's not silly to think it's an actual prayer?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on February 01, 2018, 10:26:00 AM
you mean that in a good way.. I hope

We all love Rubashkin but that is just sad
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Definitions on February 01, 2018, 10:27:05 AM
This is sick.
-1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on February 01, 2018, 10:27:10 AM
We all love Rubashkin but that is just sad silly
FTFY
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:30:03 AM
We all love Rubashkin but that is just sad
+1
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Definitions on February 01, 2018, 10:32:06 AM
Just wanted to point out. You realized how much longer that is than the others. In my opinion tefillah/hodaa should be shorter than spelling everything out. There has to be a part that's still left inside your heart.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 10:37:52 AM
We all love Rubashkin but that is just sad
Please elaborate, I don't get the problem here.

The only thing I can understand is people making assumptions on what the meaning and purpose is.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
Please elaborate, I don't get the problem here.

The only thing I can understand is people making assumptions on what the meaning and purpose is.
What's sad is, how it's taken out of control, it's sad to joke that he's moshiach, or that it's the same level as Chanukah or Purim
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 10:44:52 AM
What's sad is, how it's taken out of control, it's sad to joke that he's moshiach, or that it's the same level as Chanukah or Purim
It jokes that he's moshiach in there?

And why is it sad to look at a personal salvation as the salvations of old? Whether as a joke or personal feeling. Ever read the storyteller how local communities had miracles and they called it the purim etc of their time? I was always raised to find personal meaning in Torah and finding meaning in being let out of jail early for someone who thought he was spending his life there doesn't seem sad to me. The fact that this was given to him personally and not hung up for everyone shows even more how it's a personal thing.

And that's on a literal level, on a silly jokling level I really don't get it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 10:46:51 AM
It jokes that he's moshiach in there?

And why is it sad to look at a personal salvation as the salvations of old? Whether as a joke or personal feeling. Ever read the storyteller how local communities had miracles and they called it the purim etc of their time? I was always raised to find personal meaning in Torah and finding meaning in being let out of jail early for someone who thought he was spending his life there doesn't seem sad to me.

And that's on a literal level, on a silly jokling level I really don't get it.
The gratefulness and the like is amazing, but this stuck me deeply wrong
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 10:49:57 AM
The gratefulness and the like is amazing, but this stuck me deeply wrong
I understand it struck you and apparently others as wrong, sad, etc. I just don't understand why...

In yeshiva they used to give out "Megilahs" when it came to a special event like yud tes kislev and it told the story over, no one thought it was a real megilah, it's just a way of relating a story. That's different I understand, but if there is no hard being done I just don't get the outrage.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on February 01, 2018, 10:53:54 AM
Please elaborate, I don't get the problem here.

I feel it's a mockery of the tefillos that Chazal instituted.

The fact that this was given to him personally and not hung up for everyone shows even more how it's a personal thing.

Is it personal if this pic has been sent around the world?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Definitions on February 01, 2018, 11:09:37 AM
I feel it's a mockery of the tefillos that Chazal instituted
Maybe at first glance. But if people think about it for drop they'll realize that its a present to him. And in no way whatsoever is it mocking anybody.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 11:12:45 AM
I feel it's a mockery of the tefillos that Chazal instituted.

Is it personal if this pic has been sent around the world?
Are modern day piyutim a mockery?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on February 01, 2018, 11:16:01 AM
Are modern day piyutim a mockery?

It's not a piyut.
It's a mockery of the al hanisim using the same words and style, pretending to be equivalent.

ETA: It's not the worst thing ever. It just feels wrong so I will say so. Probably if it was given on Purim I'd say it's fine.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ADG on February 01, 2018, 11:21:11 AM
It's not a piyut.
It's a mockery of the al hanisim using the same words and style, pretending to be equivalent.

ETA: It's not the worst thing ever. It just feels wrong so I will say so. Probably if it was given on Purim I'd say it's fine.

Good thing right and wrong is not based on your feelings...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on February 01, 2018, 11:23:24 AM
This is sick.
Is that the first thing that came to your mind when you saw this?

If so, I sincerely hope it's just a bad moment you were having, otherwise you might be able to use some help or inspiration.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 11:26:14 AM
It's not a piyut.
It's a mockery of the al hanisim using the same words and style, pretending to be equivalent.

ETA: It's not the worst thing ever. It just feels wrong so I will say so. Probably if it was given on Purim I'd say it's fine.
I hear, like I mentioned with the megilah example, it's just something people do with modern events, it's not meant as a mockery. But I can see how someone who's never seen anything like it before can be insulted by it. But to me it doesn't feel like that at all.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on February 01, 2018, 11:34:58 AM
Is that the first thing that came to your mind when you saw this?

If so, I sincerely hope it's just a bad moment you were having, otherwise you might be able to use some help or inspiration.

It's a mockery of the al hanisim using the same words and style, pretending to be equivalent.

ETA: It's not the worst thing ever. It just feels wrong so I will say so. Probably if it was given on Purim I'd say it's fine.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on February 01, 2018, 11:54:07 AM
Good thing right and wrong is not based on your feelings...

I gave my reason above. At the end of the day we must use our own judgement, I'm not telling anyone else how to feel.

I hear, like I mentioned with the megilah example, it's just something people do with modern events, it's not meant as a mockery. But I can see how someone who's never seen anything like it before can be insulted by it. But to me it doesn't feel like that at all.

I'm not personally insulted, I just think it's wrong for the reason stated above.
I'll agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Dawie on February 01, 2018, 11:58:22 AM
DO at the Tomechei Shabbos Dinner on MtSh"K ?
http://matzav.com/the-rubashkin-lakewood-tomchei-shabbos-dinner-hahodaah/
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: jj1000 on February 01, 2018, 12:19:51 PM
I'll agree to disagree.
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Boruch999 on February 01, 2018, 12:29:34 PM
Not so terrible.  I definitely wouldn't describe it as sick.  If it was Purim it would be considered Purim shtick.  Since it's not, it gives the impression that the guy who made it thinks that RSMR's personal geula is comparable to Chanuka and Purim which would be ridiculous. 
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: zh cohen on February 04, 2018, 10:23:30 AM
No I am talking about the Federal charges that were dropped after the 86 convictions of fraud. Please let’s not pretend there was no child labor. If you want retry this make sure you use facts and not personal feelings.

The reason people keep mentioning the State child labor aquittal is because the defender showed that the company had proper safeguards to ensure workers were legal. If the govt. would have brought the immigration charges to trial the same arguments (which had been accepted by a jury) would have held.

There is a reason they brought the fraud charges to trial first.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:46:59 AM
The reason people keep mentioning the State child labor aquittal is because the defender showed that the company had proper safeguards to ensure workers were legal.
I am not up on the case as most here are. Didn't the company plead guilty to using child labor?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on February 04, 2018, 11:49:22 AM
I am not up on the case as most here are. Didn't the company plead guilty to using child labor?
No.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 12:00:38 PM
No.
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: skyguy918 on February 04, 2018, 12:51:02 PM
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
I know this is not what you asked, but Rubashkin himself was tried and acquitted of the child labor charges that the state brought. I don't think there were any federal child labor charges, and the federal immigration charges were dropped. That leaves him with the federal bank fraud charges, which is what he was convicted of, and is the topic of most of the discussion here.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 01:42:14 PM
I know this is not what you asked, but Rubashkin himself was tried and acquitted of the child labor charges that the state brought. I don't think there were any federal child labor charges, and the federal immigration charges were dropped. That leaves him with the federal bank fraud charges, which is what he was convicted of, and is the topic of most of the discussion here.
Fair enough. Just so you know where I stand. When it comes to kids I cut no one any slack.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 07:02:27 PM
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
a guilty plea by a new owner who bought the company after SMR was already in prison. that tells us something about what happened? or something about what the state wanted the company to say to be let live?
Heshy friedman has a foggy clue about what violations did or didn't happen before he got there?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 04, 2018, 07:07:59 PM
Fair enough. Just so you know where I stand. When it comes to kids I cut no one any slack.
Go look into the industry. I even gave you a starting point upthread. When someone comes and says "I'm 18, hire me" and they have ID, you cannot not hire them because you *think* they are underage. As soon as they slip up and say their age, they get fired. There is nothing the companies can do about this. They all have this issue (hundreds of companies, many far larger than agri, and employing far more underage employees), who else was raided and arrested for it?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on February 04, 2018, 08:59:23 PM
Amazed how so many have basic facts wrong.

However, Agriprocessors, as a corporation, which had already been purchased by Heshy Friedman, entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state.
Not knowing that happened with the company under the new owners =/= having basic facts about the case pertaining to SMR wrong.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:03:58 PM
Not knowing that happened with the company under the new owners =/= having basic facts about the case pertaining to SMR wrong.
Please check when these violations occurred that they pleaded guilty to. My beef is using child labor. No slack from me on that. It could be the Pope and I wouldn't care.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:05:55 PM
Please check when these violations occurred that they pleaded guilty to. My beef is using child labor. No slack from me on that. It could be the Pope and I wouldn't care.
how can the new owner plead for what happened before he showed up? and what does he know?

as if his plea proves anything about what actually happened...

(Imagine DJT 'admitting' on behalf of BHO to illegal wiretapping)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:13:47 PM
how can the new owner plead for what happened before he showed up? and what does he know?

as if his plea proves anything about what actually happened...

(Imagine DJT 'admitting' on behalf of BHO to illegal wiretapping)
There were children working there. That is fact. They testified at his trial. The prosecution did not prove that he knew about it. No one disputed there was children working there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:14:35 PM
There were children working there. That is fact. They testified at his trial. The prosecution did not prove that he knew about it. No one disputed there was children working there.
so say that, instead of quoting  a guilty plea by a 3rd party
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:17:01 PM
so say that, instead of quoting  a guilty plea by a 3rd party
That was just to show children were working there and the company pleaded guilty to it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:18:07 PM
That was just to show children were working there.
so that plea tells us what?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on February 04, 2018, 09:20:07 PM
Please check when these violations occurred that they pleaded guilty to. My beef is using child labor. No slack from me on that. It could be the Pope and I wouldn't care.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that missed these two posts and you weren't intentionally ignoring them
Go look into the industry. I even gave you a starting point upthread. When someone comes and says "I'm 18, hire me" and they have ID, you cannot not hire them because you *think* they are underage. As soon as they slip up and say their age, they get fired. There is nothing the companies can do about this. They all have this issue (hundreds of companies, many far larger than agri, and employing far more underage employees), who else was raided and arrested for it?
link=topic=88429.msg1886044#msg1886044 date=1517788947]
a guilty plea by a new owner who bought the company after SMR was already in prison. that tells us something about what happened? or something about what the state wanted the company to say to be let live?
Heshy friedman has a foggy clue about what violations did or didn't happen before he got there?
[/quote]
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:23:33 PM
so that plea tells us what?
If you want I can do a simple google search for the answer to this question. Did these things (child labor violations) that the guilty plea was for happen under the old owner or the new owner?

"entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state."
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:25:53 PM
If you want I can do a simple google search for the answer to this question. Did these things (child labor violations) that the guilty plea was for happen under the old owner or the new owner?

"entered a guilty plea to the 83 child labor charges and the plant′s human resources manager pleaded to state child labor charges under an agreement with the state."
I repeat, if new owner (DJT) 'pleads' claims about what happened during his predecessor's (BHO) tenure, does the latter have any clue what actually took place befor he showed up? does his claim have any bearing on what actually happened? on 'facts'? or is it a simple legalese technicality?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:26:32 PM
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that missed these two posts and you weren't intentionally ignoring them link=topic=88429.msg1886044#msg1886044 date=1517788947]
a guilty plea by a new owner who bought the company after SMR was already in prison. that tells us something about what happened? or something about what the state wanted the company to say to be let live?
Heshy friedman has a foggy clue about what violations did or didn't happen before he got there?
Would never ignore you.  ;)
What about the human resources manager pleading guilty? Is this the same HRM under the old owner?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:27:05 PM
I repeat, if new owner (DJT) 'pleads' claims about what happened during his predecessor's (BHO) tenure, does the latter have any clue what actually took place befor he showed up? does his claim have any bearing on what actually happened? on 'facts'? or is it a simple legalese technicality?
What about the human resources manager pleading guilty? Is this the same HRM under the old owner?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:28:37 PM
Would never ignore you.  ;)
What about the human resources manager pleading guilty? Is this the same HRM under the old owner?
I doubt it.
the prosecutor made sure to clean house. (any rubashkin holdovers would g-d forbid add value to the bankruptcy sale price and ruin the sentence).
note the 'no-rubashkins' clause in the bankruptcy proceedings
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:31:35 PM
I doubt it.
the prosecutor made sure to clean house. (any rubashkin holdovers would g-d forbid add value to the bankruptcy sale price and ruin the sentence).
note the 'no-rubashkins' clause in the bankruptcy proceedings
So there was child labor violations after he sold the company? The new owners new of this problem and did nothing? That is hard to believe.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:33:30 PM
So there was child labor violations after he sold the company? The new owners new of this problem and did nothing? That is hard to believe.
in all likelihood the new owners plead to what purportedly happened before they arrived. (I'm guessing about the HRM, but the owner was certainly new...)
a plea like that has more bearing on the law than on reality...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:38:26 PM
in all likelihood the new owners plead to what purportedly happened before they arrived. (I'm guessing about the HRM, but the owner was certainly new...)
a plea like that has more bearing on the law than on reality...
What about the human resources manager guilty plea? No way is any person going to plead guilty for something when they weren't even employed there at the time.
I am confused here. Are you saying there was no children working there?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 09:43:52 PM
What about the human resources manager guilty plea? No way is any person going to plead guilty for something when they weren't even employed there at the time.
The owner certainly plead on things that he was not party to. I'm guessing the HRM was the same story.
Quote
I am confused here. Are you saying there was no children working there?
I wasn't there, I don't know if kids worked there.
I certainly don't know if the old management knew of their age. and the discussion of whether not hiring those who seem to be kids without proof of their youth will get you arrested for age discrimination I certainly don't know.
I just fail to see what a plea by an unrelated party, (which I presume to be a legal formality because I don't know what else to make of it), what it contributes to our knowledge of facts...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 09:49:18 PM
I just fail to see what a plea by an unrelated party, (which I presume to be a legal formality because I don't know what else to make of it), what it contributes to our knowledge of facts...
If you think they are going to plead guilty to child labor when there was none I have a bridge to sell you. Especially the HRM!!!

Children testified at the trial. Did they all lie? Lets be real here. He was found not guilty of these charges but don't pretend children didn't work there. A simple google search will give you your answer if you care.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 10:02:02 PM
Children testified at the trial. Did they all lie?
this part seems relevant, as they are alleging something they would have knowledge of. stick to it. leave out legal formalities that add nothing to the facts.

(you don't wanna do that, because that would leave you without the implied criminal knowledge of their age)

If you think they are going to plead guilty to child labor when there was none I have a bridge to sell you. Especially the HRM!!!
I'm sure nobody plead guilty to charges on their own behalf without committing the crime. my question here for the lawyers out there is, what is the legal value of a new owner (or HRM) pleading to charges on behalf of 'the company' or some other previous entity/person, with obviously no implications (or knowledge!) of the pleader?
I ask what it accomplishes legally, because I know what it means factually.

(If you're convinced that, although the pleading owner was clearly new, the HRM was a carryover, look it up. compare the names. shouldn't be too hard...)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:04:11 PM
(the HRM was a carryover, look it up. compare the names. shouldn't be too hard...)
That's what I have been saying.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 10:04:46 PM
That's what I have been saying.
fact? or assumption?

link? quote?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:06:19 PM
fact? or assumption?

link? quote?
A common sense assumed fact.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 04, 2018, 10:09:47 PM
A common sense assumed fact.  :)
you know what they say about assumptions.

regarding your 'common sense' logic, you're overlooking some basic facs, as I pointed out:
-some of these pleas were clearly newcomers. no reason the others shouldn't be the same story.
-leaving in a carryover HRM would go against everything else the prosecutors stood for. would be very surprising to say the least.

If you can verify your 'common sense' 'logical' ASSUMPTION, lmk.
otherwise PUOSU
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:11:45 PM
otherwise PUOSU
I think you should PUOSU, no? I already proved child labor unless you believe the kids lied under oath.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:27:03 PM
I think you should PUOSU, no? I already proved child labor unless you believe the kids lied under oath.
You did not prove knowledge of that.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:27:46 PM
You did not prove knowledge of that.
Wrong thread. Get back to the memo.  :P
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:29:08 PM
Wrong thread. Get back to the memo. 
So you are saying their testimony was a nothingburger?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:30:04 PM
So you are saying their testimony was a nothingburger?
I am saying I am not going to link 1+1=2.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:31:56 PM
I am saying I am not going to link 1+1=2.
That is fine definitely to me since I have no horse in this race but you have not proven the primary point of dispute.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:35:28 PM
That is fine definitely to me since I have no horse in this race but you have not proven the primary point of dispute.
Don't need to prove something that is widely accepted as fact. You need to stop thinking you are in the election thread.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:39:39 PM
Don't need to prove something that is widely accepted as fact. You need to stop thinking you are in the election thread.
The people you are having the discussion with don't feel that this is accepted as fact.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:42:50 PM
The people you are having the discussion with don't feel that this is accepted as fact.
NSU!!!

Prosecutors wrapped up their case, which included the testimony of several then-underage workers at the Agriprocessors plant in Postville, Iowa, who were flown in from Guatemala to testify against Rubashkin.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:43:53 PM
The people you are having the discussion with don't feel that this is accepted as fact.
Would these people you are again defending be Jews? Man talk about a pattern!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:44:13 PM
NSU!!!

Prosecutors wrapped up their case, which included the testimony of several then-underage workers at the Agriprocessors plant in Postville, Iowa, who were flown in from Guatemala to testify against Rubashkin.
How did they show that they knew about them being underage?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Would these people you are again defending be Jews? Man talk about a pattern!!!
Are you attacking Jews again?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on February 04, 2018, 10:45:23 PM
NSU!!!

Prosecutors wrapped up their case, which included the testimony of several then-underage workers at the Agriprocessors plant in Postville, Iowa, who were flown in from Guatemala to testify against Rubashkin.
Well whatever the prosecution was trying to prove here they failed to convince the jury.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:48:10 PM
Well whatever the prosecution was trying to prove here they failed to convince the jury.
They had to prove he knowingly hired child labor. He was found innocent because they could not prove that. Not that there wasn't children working there. That was undisputed.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:49:24 PM
They had to prove he knowingly hired child labor. He was found innocent because they could not prove that. Not that there wasn't children working there. That was undisputed.
Nor is that disputed here
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 10:50:36 PM
Are you attacking Jews again?
I am showing a well known pattern of yours. In a discrimination case the jury would be out 30 seconds before returning a guilty verdict.  :P
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yammer on February 04, 2018, 10:57:21 PM
Wrong thread. Get back to the memo. 
So you are saying their testimony was a nothingburger?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 10:58:32 PM
I am showing a well known pattern of yours. In a discrimination case the jury would be out 30 seconds before returning a guilty verdict. 
In short you have no way of knowing if it was done with knowledge. Okay.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:00:40 PM
In short you have no way of knowing if it was done with knowledge. Okay.
Why do stick your nose in something you have to idea what is being discussed?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:02:10 PM
Why do stick your nose in something you have to idea what is being discussed?
You've stuck into discussions about Judaism
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:03:24 PM
You've stuck into discussions about Judaism
Avoid the question as usual since you dug yourself a whole.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:06:41 PM
Avoid the question as usual since you dug yourself a whole.
Like how you keep saying over and over that there were children without answering what they wrote about knowledge. Whatever.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:11:33 PM
Like how you keep saying over and over that there were children without answering what they wrote about knowledge. Whatever.
You are clueless what we were discussing. I never said I knew he had knowledge. I don't care!!! You like butting in saying what others said/asked. You notice how no one has responded once I post about the kids testifying? Please stop with your racist trolling.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 04, 2018, 11:11:59 PM
They had to prove he knowingly hired child labor. He was found innocent because they could not prove that. Not that there wasn't children working there. That was undisputed.
There are underage workers at every. Single. Meat packing. Plant. They provide fake IDs which come up clean even on e-verify.

When you come up with a solution, please enlighten the hundreds, if not thousands, of human resource managers who deal with this every single day.

You've repeatedly refused to address my comments. Which is fine. If you only like to answer certain members, cool. But you don't get to be Mr Goalposts and Mr Answers Every Question if you ignore the most basic point of the case.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
There are underage workers at every. Single. Meat packing. Plant. They provide fake IDs which come up clean even on e-verify.

When you come up with a solution, please enlighten the hundreds, if not thousands, of human resource managers who deal with this every single day.

You've repeatedly refused to address my comments. Which is fine. If you only like to answer certain members, cool. But you don't get to be Mr Goalposts and Mr Answers Every Question if you ignore the most basic point of the case.
Sorry did not mean to ignore your post. You come up with valid points. I am glad you posted for everyone to see that there were children working at this plant and according to you at all these plants. The thing is I don't care when it comes to children. That is not just about this individual. I would say the exact same thing if it was the Pope. It is not my job to come up with a solution and I am not going to try.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
You are clueless what we were discussing. I never said I knew he had knowledge. I don't care!!! You like butting in saying what others said/asked. You notice how no one has responded once I post about the kids testifying? Please stop with your racist trolling.
Except that is what they were all saying. If it makes you feel good to be saying a Jew was guilty of crimes go ahead that is what you do in each thread which discusses anyone accused of anything. If you want to play that card then I can too. (Besides of course that you are forgetting how about a week ago it was just the opposite and I was defending your statement)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:23:39 PM
Except that is what they were all saying. If it makes you feel good to be saying a Jew was guilty of crimes go ahead that is what you do in each thread which discusses anyone accused of anything. If you want to play that card then I can too. (Besides of course that you are forgetting how about a week ago it was just the opposite and I was defending your statement)
Again you are wrong. My main discussion was with gozalim about there being child labor at the plant.

He was found innocent of these charges as I have said many times. Nice try but keep digging that hole.

When you come out of nowhere to troll me then yes I believe it is your racist tendencies.

In case you haven't notice I am the minority here not you.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 04, 2018, 11:26:40 PM
Sorry did not mean to ignore your post. You come up with valid points. I am glad you posted for everyone to see that there were children working at this plant and according to you at all these plants. The thing is I don't care when it comes to children. That is not just about this individual. I would say the exact same thing if it was the Pope. It is not my job to come up with a solution and I am not going to try.
No one denied there were underage workers there. It's a strawman that *you* created and beat down. Saying you would feel the same if it was the pope says nothing about agri's actions, it's just empty moral grandstanding on your part which has no bearing on Rubashkin.

Even with the testimony of the minors (which was fraught with contradictions and many issues) he was cleared. Because he did nothing wrong (in that regard). You thinking that you're "all about the kids" without even a semblance of a clue how anyone should solve the problem doesn't make anyone else guilty, it just makes you feel good about yourself.


Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:29:16 PM
Again you are wrong. My main discussion was with gozalim about there being child labor at the plant.

He was found innocent of these charges as I have said many times. Nice try but keep digging that hole.

When you come out of nowhere to troll me then yes I believe it is your racist tendencies.

In case you haven't notice I am the minority here not you.
My point was how you ignored what @Yehuda57 wrote more than once. Even now you admit you have no solution. They are not allowed to research so therefore they would not know if they were underage.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:29:35 PM
No one denied there were underage workers there.
This is not true. That was the main discussion gozalim and I were having.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:31:31 PM
My point was how you ignored what @Yehuda57 wrote more than once. Even now you admit you have no solution. They are not allowed to research so therefore they would not know if they were underage.
Again the main discussion was between gozalim and I. It was about if the plant had child labor not if he knew about it. You butt in the middle then claim you know what we were discussing.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 04, 2018, 11:34:47 PM
This is not true. That was the main discussion gozalim and I were having.
Then you don't know how to read. Gozalim never made any such claim.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Freddie on February 04, 2018, 11:34:55 PM
The computer you are typing on was made with child labor in china.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:36:32 PM
Again the main discussion was between gozalim and I. It was about if the plant had child labor not if he knew about it. You butt in the middle then claim you know what we were discussing.
I thought you would never ignore @whYME ?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 04, 2018, 11:37:01 PM
The computer you are typing on was made with child labor in china.
Child labor and BDS - you can't use or wear anything.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:38:39 PM
Then you don't know how to read. Gozalim never made any such claim.
Really?
I don't know if kids worked there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:40:28 PM
I thought you would never ignore @whYME ?
I didn't.

Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 04, 2018, 11:41:53 PM
Really?
oh please. Read the thread again. He says straight out, if your point is that kids worked there then say that, not that he's guilty. You pulled a half a sentence where he's being coy saying he didn't work in the plant and see underage workers with his own eyes. Don't be ridiculous. The whole argument is about the guilty plea.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:42:47 PM
Really?
Just for the record lets put the full quote since someone claimed the discussion was not about knowledge.

The owner certainly plead on things that he was not party to. I'm guessing the HRM was the same story.I wasn't there,
I don't know if kids worked there.
I certainly don't know if the old management knew of their age. and the discussion of whether not hiring those who seem to be kids without proof of their youth will get you arrested for age discrimination I certainly don't know.
I just fail to see what a plea by an unrelated party, (which I presume to be a legal formality because I don't know what else to make of it), what it contributes to our knowledge of facts...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:44:38 PM
oh please. Read the thread again. He says straight out, if your point is that kids worked there then say that, not that he's guilty. You pulled a half a sentence where he's being coy saying he didn't work in the plant and see underage workers with his own eyes. Don't be ridiculous. The whole argument is about the guilty plea.
Now you get caught and pull a aygart. He never pleaded guilty to and state charges that we are talking about.
Please show one post were I said he was guilty of any state charges? PUOSU!!!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:46:05 PM
Just for the record lets put the full quote since someone claimed the discussion was not about knowledge.
Show me post where I said he had knowledge. PUOSU!!!

Also you keep avoiding the question:
Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 04, 2018, 11:48:44 PM
Show me post where I said he had knowledge. PUOSU!!!

Also you keep avoiding the question:
Another straw man. This was my first post
You did not prove knowledge of that.
Whatever I'm done for the night.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 04, 2018, 11:49:56 PM
Another straw man. This was my first post
What are you afraid of?
Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Definitions on February 05, 2018, 12:41:47 AM
Sorry for the interruption. @ChaimMoskowitz and @aygart it's times like these that I can't tell if you guys are really fighting or play fighting. Or maybe this is just plain talking :) Carry on...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gozalim on February 05, 2018, 12:45:23 AM
@ChaimMoskowitz I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
Once the children's testimony was brought in, I didn't argue that, I told you to stick to that.

I'm was trying to see what the fake guilty plea added to that
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 12:56:16 AM
@ChaimMoskowitz I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
Once the children's testimony was brought in, I didn't argue that, I told you to stick to that.

I'm was trying to see what the fake guilty plea added to that
NP a lot of these thing are misunderstandings. I took it as you were disputing there was child labor. The guilty pleas where brought in to show there was child labor. Then the children's testimony to further that point. At no point did I say SMR was guilty of knowingly hiring child labor. If you thought I meant that then I am sorry for not making that clear.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 12:57:30 AM
Sorry for the interruption. @ChaimMoskowitz and @aygart it's times like these that I can't tell if you guys are really fighting or play fighting. Or maybe this is just plain talking :) Carry on...
It is not important for you to know. It is important for us to know.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 05, 2018, 01:16:37 AM
Now you get caught and pull a aygart. He never pleaded guilty to and state charges that we are talking about.
Please show one post were I said he was guilty of any state charges? PUOSU!!!
I pulled an Agart? But I didn't mention halacha once!

You can't invent a claim, put it in my mouth and then ask me to PUOSU. That makes no sense.

To recap, because you seem to be having trouble following this conversation:

Zh revived this thread mentioning state charges, for which Rubashkin was acquitted.

You say, "Hey, did you guys know there were kids there? There was testimony and everything"

Everyone, "Yes, but he was acquitted because they proved he had no knowledge."

You, "But there was a plea bargain. That proves there were kids. And the pope."

Gozalim, "The plea proves nothing"

You, "There were kids. The pope."

Gozalim, "So say that. Why mention the plea?" (this implies he agrees there were underage workers.)

"Because it proves there were kids."

"No it doesn't. It doesn't prove a thing. New owners don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. Rubashkin was acquitted, the plea was for legal reasons."

"But the pope"

Me, "No one denies underage workers were there."

You take half a line completelly out of context, "Gotcha! Plus I never said Rubashkin had knowledge! PUOSU!"

Your point in this thread, as it is on many other threads, is to play a sort of objective outsider. We think there was a gross injustice, and you say, "well, he was really guilty of other stuff, he deserved much more than you guys think."

Often you are correct. We might see antisemitism where there is none. We might feel victimized when we are not. It's good to have someone with a different perspective who can enlighten us and correct wrong-headed thinking.

But in this thread (and the MLB thread it ) you are simply wrong. There was a massive prosecutorial and judicial break down. You don't like Rubashkin as a person? That's your prerogative. But please spare us the sanctimony.

Good night and good luck.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 05, 2018, 01:18:31 AM
I pulled an Agart? But I didn't mention halacha once!

You can't invent a claim, put it in my mouth and then ask me to PUOSU. That makes no sense.

To recap, because you seem to be having trouble following this conversation:

Zh revived this thread mentioning state charges, for which Rubashkin was acquitted.

You say, "Hey, did you guys know there were kids there? There was testimony and everything"

Everyone, "Yes, but he was acquitted because they proved he had no knowledge."

You, "But there was a plea bargain. That proves there were kids. And the pope."

Gozalim, "The plea proves nothing"

You, "There were kids. The pope."

Gozalim, "So say that. Why mention the plea?" (this implies he agrees there were underage workers.)

"Because it proves there were kids."

"No it doesn't. It doesn't prove a thing. New owners don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. Rubashkin was acquitted, the plea was for legal reasons."

"But the pope"

Me, "No one denies underage workers were there."

You take half a line completelly out of context, "Gotcha! Plus I never said Rubashkin had knowledge! PUOSU!"

Your point in this thread, as it is on many other threads, is to play a sort of objective outsider. We think there was a gross injustice, and you say, "well, he was really guilty of other stuff, he deserved much more than you guys think."

Often you are correct. We might see antisemitism where there is none. We might feel victimized when we are not. It's good to have someone with a different perspective who can enlighten us and correct wrong-headed thinking.

But in this thread (and the MLB thread it ) you are simply wrong. There was a massive prosecutorial and judicial break down. You don't like Rubashkin as a person? That's your prerogative. But please spare us the sanctimony.

Good night and good luck.
ETA, damn tapatalk. I see you figured out all out without my whole recap.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 01:26:57 AM
ETA, damn tapatalk. I see you figured out all out without my whole recap.
Thanks for view of what happened. Sorted of a distorted view but an interesting read. Here was what started it all up again. Another member not knowing basic facts of the case.
I am not up on the case as most here are. Didn't the company plead guilty to using child labor?
No.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Freddie on February 05, 2018, 01:29:23 AM
What the heck is your new avatar? Some sort of bong?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 01:31:20 AM
What the heck is your new avatar? Some sort of bong?
Bong? LOL
I need a new one since it is not working, unity candle.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2018, 02:38:33 AM
Sorry did not mean to ignore your post. You come up with valid points. I am glad you posted for everyone to see that there were children working at this plant and according to you at all these plants. The thing is I don't care when it comes to children. That is not just about this individual. I would say the exact same thing if it was the Pope. It is not my job to come up with a solution and I am not going to try.

You, my dear sir, seem to be living in some kind of "progressive" lala land!

Any underage worker was not abused or forced to work there (or in many of the other places that employ underage workers).

Certain concepts are not absolute, and depend on circumstances, as well as social norms.

Democracy isn't right for everyone, nor are child labor laws necessarily right for all.

Trying to impose your set of values on everyone else, is nothing short of utmost arrogance!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 08:14:55 AM
It is not important for you to know. It is important for us to know.  :)
:)

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 08:17:22 AM
Now you get caught and pull a aygart. He never pleaded guilty to and state charges that we are talking about.
Please show one post were I said he was guilty of any state charges? PUOSU!!!
Wow. That was a real compliment. I'm flattered.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 08:46:36 AM
Wow. That was a real compliment. I'm flattered.
Then why don't you answer this question?
Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 08:52:17 AM
Then why don't you answer this question?
Sure. Look at my first comment here and look at your irrelevant response. I was not trolling at all you were bullying me.
You did not prove knowledge of that.
Wrong thread. Get back to the memo. 
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 08:57:07 AM
You, my dear sir, seem to be living in some kind of "progressive" lala land!
If believing child labor should not be used is "progressive" then I am proud of it.
Any underage worker was not abused or forced to work there (or in many of the other places that employ underage workers).
That makes me feel warm and cozy inside knowing that never happens.  ::)
Democracy isn't right for everyone, nor are child labor laws necessarily right for all.
You don't like our laws? I am sure you can find the door.
Trying to impose your set of values on everyone else, is nothing short of utmost arrogance!
If standing up for the rights of children is imposing my values on everyone else then I do it proudly.

I feel like you are lecturing me. What's the next lecture going to be on, women? I am sure you are an expert on how they should be treated.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 08:59:37 AM
Sure. Look at my first comment here and look at your irrelevant response. I was not trolling at all you were bullying me.
You were not even in the conversation. So I will ask again:
Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 09:10:50 AM
You were not even in the conversation. So I will ask again:
No not stop that anyone else who joins a conversation after there are twenty posts. No reason to be a bully.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 09:13:00 AM
No not stop that anyone else who joins a conversation after there are twenty posts. No reason to be a bully.
Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 09:13:32 AM

I didn't.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 09:15:12 AM
I didn't.
Why did you come out of nowhere to troll me?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 09:15:48 AM






I didn't.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 09:18:21 AM
Anytime you ask me any question that is the answer you are going to get.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 09:19:04 AM
Anytime you ask me any question that is the answer you are going to get.
Bully

There is no reason why I cannot join a conversation.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on February 05, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
The owner certainly plead on things that he was not party to. I'm guessing the HRM was the same story.I wasn't there, I don't know if kids worked there.
I certainly don't know if the old management knew of their age. and the discussion of whether not hiring those who seem to be kids without proof of their youth will get you arrested for age discrimination I certainly don't know.
I just fail to see what a plea by an unrelated party, (which I presume to be a legal formality because I don't know what else to make of it), what it contributes to our knowledge of facts...
I was there. There was nobody that i saw that looked like a kid. were there 17 year olds that had fake ID cause they wanted a job? Maybe. But there were definitely no school kids running around there. I would give the pope a pass on this. Compounding the issue, was that most of the work force were foreign born, not your typical american. As such, it is more difficult (for me)to properly assess their ages.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: username on February 05, 2018, 09:49:44 AM
^^^^
This was intended as a PM to CM, but I sent it to the wrong guy. So I'm posting it here.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 09:54:04 AM
^^^^
This was intended as a PM to CM, but I sent it to the wrong guy. So I'm posting it here.
:)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2018, 11:37:17 AM
I was there. There was nobody that i saw that looked like a kid. were there 17 year olds that had fake ID cause they wanted a job? Maybe. But there were definitely no school kids running around there. I would give the pope a pass on this. Compounding the issue, was that most of the work force were foreign born, not your typical american. As such, it is more difficult (for me)to properly assess their ages.


Mais non!

If believing child labor should not be used is "progressive" then I am proud of it.That makes me feel warm and cozy inside knowing that never happens.  ::)

You don't like our laws? I am sure you can find the door.

If standing up for the rights of children is imposing my values on everyone else then I do it proudly.

I feel like you are lecturing me. What's the next lecture going to be on, women? I am sure you are an expert on how they should be treated.

So regardless of desperate these 17 year olds are desperate and willing to work, to the extent that they will obtain false documentation so that people like CM can't stop them from doing what they (and many other reasonable people) believe might be best for them, CM will proudly impose his opinions and values.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on February 05, 2018, 11:47:14 AM
I was there. There was nobody that i saw that looked like a kid. were there 17 year olds that had fake ID cause they wanted a job? Maybe. But there were definitely no school kids running around there. I would give the pope a pass on this. Compounding the issue, was that most of the work force were foreign born, not your typical american. As such, it is more difficult (for me)to properly assess their ages.

I thought 16 was the minimum age to work?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 11:49:48 AM
So regardless of desperate these 17 year olds are desperate and willing to work, to the extent that they will obtain false documentation so that people like CM can't stop them from doing what they (and many other reasonable people) believe might be best for them, CM will proudly impose his opinions and values.
So now your claim is they were all 17 year olds? Do you care at all about facts?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2018, 11:57:21 AM
So now your claim is they were all 17 year olds? Do you care at all about facts?
I did not claim they were all 17 year olds.

But go ahead and stick to the details and facts, while ignoring the reality of the situation.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 11:58:53 AM
I thought 16 was the minimum age to work?
A slaughterhouse might be different for good reason.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 12:00:44 PM
I did not claim they were all 17 year olds.

But go ahead and stick to the details and facts, while ignoring the reality of the situation.
I believe in child labor laws. That is the reality of the situation. Not sure what your issue is.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yuneeq on February 05, 2018, 12:05:51 PM
I believe in child labor laws. That is the reality of the situation. Not sure what your issue is.

While the law might not agree, if a 16 or 17 year old wants to lie and deceive their way to employment then the onus is on them.
They're not babies.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 12:11:32 PM
While the law might not agree, if a 16 or 17 year old wants to lie and deceive their way to employment then the onus is on them.
They're not babies.
Then we get in the argument what about 14 or 15? How about 12 or 13?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on February 05, 2018, 12:17:29 PM
I believe in child labor laws. That is the reality of the situation. Not sure what your issue is.
Welcome to modern political discourse. People cant have a nuanced discussion because you framed it as being pro or against child labor laws. Now anyone arguing with you is on the side of being pro child labor! What monsters!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on February 05, 2018, 12:19:24 PM
Welcome to modern political discourse. People cant have a nuanced discussion because you framed it as being pro or against child labor laws. Now anyone arguing with you is on the side of being pro child labor! What monsters!

Thank you for diligently keeping to your job, as clearly enumerated in your signature line.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 12:22:23 PM
Welcome to modern political discourse. People cant have a nuanced discussion because you framed it as being pro or against child labor laws. Now anyone arguing with you is on the side of being pro child labor! What monsters!
Not at all. This all started because I correct a member that the company pleaded guilty to child labor. It snowballed from there.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: aygart on February 05, 2018, 12:25:34 PM
Then we get in the argument what about 14 or 15? How about 12 or 13?

I am with you on this one. The issue is that if we also prevent the employers from being able to enforce the age restrictions then the employers cannot be held culpable. We therefore need the regulations preventing their enforcement to be repealed.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on February 05, 2018, 01:59:49 PM
Not at all. This all started because I correct a member that the company pleaded guilty to child labor. It snowballed from there.
I wonder if the snowballing you mention had anything to do your refusal to acknowledge that the guilty plea came from the new owners and your seeming insistence that having had underage workers was necessarily an evil act committed by SMR regardless of his being found not guilty on the matter and regardless of the inability of the company to do anything if someone comes with ID showing that they're old enough.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: gingyguy on February 05, 2018, 02:25:09 PM
I am with you on this one. The issue is that if we also prevent the employers from being able to enforce the age restrictions then the employers cannot be held culpable. We therefore need the regulations preventing their enforcement to be repealed.
the government plays both sides you cant hire them but you can either ask them for proof that the paperwork is real. basically ur sscrewed the question just is how bad!
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on February 05, 2018, 02:50:43 PM
I wonder if the snowballing you mention had anything to do your refusal to acknowledge that the guilty plea came from the new owners and your seeming insistence that having had underage workers was necessarily an evil act committed by SMR regardless of his being found not guilty on the matter and regardless of the inability of the company to do anything if someone comes with ID showing that they're old enough.
Show me one post where I said the guilty plea wasn't from the new owners. What I didn't know is if the other guilty plea was from a new HRM. All indications point this was not a new HRM. The only reason I brought this up was to show child labor was used. I said it before and I will say it again. When it comes to child labor I cut no one any slack. You don't agree and that is fine.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: whYME on February 05, 2018, 03:03:49 PM
I said it before and I will say it again. When it comes to child labor I cut no one any slack. You don't agree and that is fine.
and your seeming insistence that having had underage workers was necessarily an evil act committed by SMR regardless of his being found not guilty on the matter and regardless of the inability of the company to do anything if someone comes with ID showing that they're old enough.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 11, 2018, 07:00:46 PM
Did we ever get an answer to why the Rubashkin's refer to prison as "a place called prison"?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on April 11, 2018, 08:29:32 PM
Did we ever get an answer to why the Rubashkin's refer to prison as "a place called prison"?
Possibly related to  אבות ו, ב.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on April 11, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
Possibly related to  אבות ו, ב.
Wow. That's interesting.
I wonder if that was what helped him get through it.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: mordechain on April 11, 2018, 08:45:41 PM
Because he taught that prison is a state of mind, not a state of being.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yesitsme on April 11, 2018, 09:15:45 PM

Moiach shalit al halev.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: davidrotts63 on May 16, 2018, 10:51:50 PM
Did we ever get an answer to why the Rubashkin's refer to prison as "a place called prison"?
he just explained to me that only a body can be on prison, and that's not who he is, he is a neshama, and as long as he didn't consider himself there, he wasnt.
And then he said something about he was actually in place serving HaShem etc.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: flyingBlue on December 10, 2018, 03:11:23 PM
It's that time in the year again...
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: shapsam on August 09, 2019, 05:09:21 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/politics/kushner-rubashkin-trump-clemency/index.html?no-st=1565384891
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Moshe123 on August 11, 2019, 12:00:34 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/politics/kushner-rubashkin-trump-clemency/index.html?no-st=1565384891

Fake news CNN
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yelped on August 11, 2019, 12:15:14 PM
Can I say typical anti-Semitic drivel? The author must be a fan of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 12:34:24 PM
Can I say typical anti-Semitic drivel?
Which part? Do you really believe Trump would have done this without Kushner's constant input?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yelped on August 11, 2019, 12:43:18 PM
Which part? Do you really believe Trump would have done this without Kushner's constant input?
The extreme focus of the article to make it sound as if Kushner controls Trump, while in reality the commutation was based on the consideration of the broad spectrum of individuals from both parties, legal and political, who took action on what they felt was a miscarriage of justice.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 02:43:12 PM
You need to put the Kool-Aid down. Don't confuse influence with control. Without Kushner this never would have happened. There are hundreds if not thousands of cases more deserving that never see the light of day.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yelped on August 11, 2019, 02:47:39 PM
You need to put the Kool-Aid down. Don't confuse influence with control. Without Kushner this never would have happened. There are hundreds if not thousands of cases more deserving that never see the light of day.
You missed the point of what I wrote. This article panders to the Jews control the world sentiment.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 02:55:33 PM
You missed the point of what I wrote. This article panders to the Jews control the world sentiment.
I didn't miss your point. Kushner's influence is because he is Trumps SIL not because he is Jewish.
Do you really believe Kushner wasn't the driving force behind Trumps decision? Was Kim K not the driving force behind letting the drug dealer off?
Hate to break it to you but Trump doesn't give a rats *ss about you or any minority. Show it will be a benefit to him and you are good to go.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yelped on August 11, 2019, 03:09:14 PM
Agreed. I'm not a knee jerk fan of Trump. But this article panders to anti Semitic sentiments.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 03:45:04 PM
Agreed. I'm not a knee jerk fan of Trump. But this article panders to anti Semitic sentiments.
I will agree the article can very well be used that way. I will leave it at that as CNN/anti-Semitism belongs in the other thread.  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: yelped on August 11, 2019, 04:04:06 PM
I will agree the article can very well be used that way. I will leave it at that as CNN/anti-Semitism belongs in the other thread.  :)
Thankfully I don't open the other thread..
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 04:27:38 PM
Thankfully I don't open the other thread..
LOL
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 11, 2019, 10:54:14 PM
I didn't miss your point. Kushner's influence is because he is Trumps SIL not because he is Jewish.
Do you really believe Kushner wasn't the driving force behind Trumps decision? Was Kim K not the driving force behind letting the drug dealer off?
Hate to break it to you but Trump doesn't give a rats *ss about you or any minority. Show it will be a benefit to him and you are good to go.
There are a numerous conspiratorial themes in the article, for instance, Trump "welcomed Chabad" into the White House. It's true, but what they don't mention is that it was also true for every president going back to Nixon.

Among potentially violent conspiracy theorists, the fact that Chabad "controls" Trump is sadly not uncommon.

This is just one example.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: grodnoking on August 11, 2019, 11:15:07 PM


There are a numerous conspiratorial themes in the article, for instance, Trump "welcomed Chabad" into the White House. It's true, but what they don't mention is that it was also true for every president going back to Nixon.

Among potentially violent conspiracy theorists, the fact that Chabad "controls" Trump is sadly not uncommon.

This is just one example.

Nobody argues against that

this article panders to anti Semitic sentiments.

Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 11:37:35 PM
There are a numerous conspiratorial themes in the article, for instance, Trump "welcomed Chabad" into the White House. It's true, but what they don't mention is that it was also true for every president going back to Nixon.

Among potentially violent conspiracy theorists, the fact that Chabad "controls" Trump is sadly not uncommon.

This is just one example.
So you are going to pick out a word here and there? Unless I missed it no where does it say anyone controls Trump or even suggests it.

You are completely missing the point of the article.
1 - Kushner's influence on the decision.
2 - Trump doing it for votes.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 11, 2019, 11:42:21 PM
So you are going to pick out a word here and there? Unless I missed it no where does it say anyone controls Trump or even suggests it.

You are completely missing the point of the article.
1 - Kushner's influence on the decision.
2 - Trump doing it for votes.
We're not really arguing, the core points could be true but the way it was reported was clumsy at best, dangerous at worst.

As for point number 2, the Orthodox make up such a tiny part of the electorate, and mostly in blue states anyway. Rubashkin had/will have 0% affect on the vote. Attributing political power where there is none is classic anti semitism which has gotten thousands of Jews killed throughout the ages.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 11:45:08 PM
We're not really arguing, the core points could be true but the way it was reported was clumsy at best, dangerous at worst.

As for point number 2, the Orthodox make up such a tiny part of the electorate, and mostly in blue states anyway. Rubashkin had/will have 0% affect on the vote. Attributing political power where there is none is classic anti semitism which has gotten thousands of Jews killed throughout the ages.
Would it be fair to say "words matter"? When you use words like this article (as you point out) or words like Trumps uses (as I constantly point out) it is a dangerous game that is being played?
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Yehuda57 on August 11, 2019, 11:51:42 PM
Would it be fair to say "words matter"? When you use words like this article (as you point out) or words like Trumps uses (as I constantly point out) it is a dangerous game that is being played?
I don't frequent that thread anymore, but go back to when I did and you'll find I was not a fan of his in the slightest and criticized his words plenty
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: CountValentine on August 11, 2019, 11:53:43 PM
I don't frequent that thread anymore, but go back to when I did and you'll find I was not a fan of his in the slightest and criticized his words plenty
I have seen that and you could have just answered "yes".  :)
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YitzyS on August 12, 2019, 12:48:51 AM
The style of reporting was one that, although none of the facts may be false, the agenda was obvious and scarcely obscured. I'm going to post just a few lines that seemingly have no place in the article, yet they show that this piece was meant to be anti-Trump and possibly also anti-Kushner:

Quote
President Trump has also welcomed the Lubavitch group into the White House.
Quote
All three have left the White House.

Quote
The irony of the contradictory politics in the two clemency cases never struck him, at least visibly, says a White House source.

Quote
said a prominent lawyer speaking on the condition of anonymity, for fear of reprisals.

All these lines are typical tactics used to paint a narrative. Irrelevant (line 1 and 2), unverifiable (3), or just anxiety (4).

Also, there were way too many unnamed sources in this piece. They make it sound like every top ranking White House employee is willing to rat on the president to CNN, but only anonymously. Imagine if I would say such a thing?

Quote
"Three sources within the Dans Deals hierarchy have shared that JJ may have taken Dan captive in some unknown location. Another two sources, who don't want to be named, have said that JJ has been drinking a lot of Red Bull yesterday. A lawyer, who is scared of JJ and will therefore not allow us to disclose his name, noted that JJ didn't deny holding Dan hostage. Another source also confided that JJ may have been jealous of the business being called DansDeals and not JJDeals, or at least EleffDeals. 12 former forum participants said that Dan hadn't posted a deal in 18 minutes. JJ likes Red Bull, CNN has confirmed."
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on August 12, 2019, 07:14:52 PM
The style of reporting was one that, although none of the facts may be false, the agenda was obvious and scarcely obscured. I'm going to post just a few lines that seemingly have no place in the article, yet they show that this piece was meant to be anti-Trump and possibly also anti-Kushner:

All these lines are typical tactics used to paint a narrative. Irrelevant (line 1 and 2), unverifiable (3), or just anxiety (4).

Also, there were way too many unnamed sources in this piece. They make it sound like every top ranking White House employee is willing to rat on the president to CNN, but only anonymously. Imagine if I would say such a thing?

I object to not being mentioned in your example.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YitzyS on August 12, 2019, 11:19:25 PM
I object to not being mentioned in your example.
It was solely for fear of reprisal and retribution.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: Something Fishy on December 30, 2019, 11:46:28 PM
It's been two years!

Came across this (https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1431035/videos-sholom-rubashkin-goes-free-klal-yisroel-rejoices-updated-210am-et.html) fantastic collection of videos from that night and just finished reliving it. What an unbelievable sight, seeing thousands upon thousands of Yidden from absolutely all stripes coming together to welcome back a man they had never even seen before.

I was fortunate to be at his house in Monsey when he arrived (spot me in the Monsey video :P) - I remember taking my daughter and walking the couple of blocks to his house, ignoring the flu I was coming down with. I don't think it's something either of us will ever forget.

I feel that that night was just a tiny little taste of what it would be when Moshiach arrives - all kinds of Jews putting aside their differences and just running into the street to sing and dance as one.

Still freaks me out how fast everything happened - went from a couple of far-fetched rumors on Whatsapp to an absolute flood simcha in a few short minutes. Amazing.
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: ExGingi on December 31, 2019, 12:18:01 AM
I feel that that night was just a tiny little taste of what it would be when Moshiach arrives - all kinds of Jews putting aside their differences and just running into the street to sing and dance as one.

Still freaks me out how fast everything happened - went from a couple of far-fetched rumors on Whatsapp to an absolute flood simcha in a few short minutes. Amazing.

Indeed. I think that was a universal feeling (definitely 'round here seeing how everyone came to 770).
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: henche on December 31, 2019, 12:07:45 PM
I was in ORD, and spent the night watching live feed from 770
Title: Re: Rubashkin freed from prison.
Post by: YitzyS on December 31, 2019, 01:18:41 PM
Cover of Yated special section that week