DansDeals.com Forums

DansDeals Forum => Up In The Air => Topic started by: milechazzer on March 05, 2018, 12:22:33 AM

Title: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 05, 2018, 12:22:33 AM
I recently took a couple of flights in first class with sorely disappointing kosher meals. On one of the flights, the (Cathay) flight attendant was completely astounded and embarrassed than the airline would serve such a poor quality and poorly presented meal to a first class passenger, and she apologized to me and encouraged me to complain about it. Most flight attendants have probably seen enough of these meals that they've grown immune to poor appearance and quality, or they just assume that this is representative of all kosher food.  But this experience got me thinking... Why can't we expect better from the airlines?

I think there is a general feeling among kosher travelers that we're lucky if the meal shows up, and we should always expect the worst. On flights in or from the US, kosher travelers have come to expect the worst possible food from US caterers, and no one even talks about their kosher meal experience unless they were fortunate enough to be served a misplaced kosher meal that came from a European caterer.

We know that many of these same airlines source much higher quality meals on flights departing from outside the US, and presumably they are paying more for these meals. In addition, there are a couple of US airlines that serve higher quality meals from the same US caterers that are infamous for the providing the worst meals on most US-based airlines. So it seems that even the US caterers that prepare the worst quality meals, also prepare relatively good quality meals when the airlines demand and pay for it.

If the airlines routinely purchase higher quality meals outside the US, and the US caterers have the ability to provide better meals in the US, then why can't we expect the airlines to demand better quality and possibly even spend a little more on the kosher meals prepared in the US - at least for travelers in first and business class?  What can we collectively do to effect change?

While individual complaints sometimes reach the right person and may have a small impact, I would say the best tool would be a simple website to gather and share photos and reviews of kosher meals. With a couple of clicks, and drop-down selections, travelers could post pictures of the good or bad meals they were served and also rate the meals at the same time. This could easily be categorized and sorted by airline, class, route, etc.  Once there are enough photos and data posted by travelers, this should be a useful resource to refer some of the airlines to, and to help guide the airlines' decision-makers about where there may be much room for improvement, and how some of the other airlines are providing a much more satisfying experience.

Please share any thoughts, ideas, suggestions or critique.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mikebg on March 05, 2018, 03:48:56 AM
As long as the airlines are able to source a meal cheaper they will have no incentive to provide a more expensive meal. It is simple economics. The only way to change anything at all is for very heavy FFs to write to the premium emails of their airlines with photos attached and complain again and again and again. That can change things, even if only slowly.

I'll give three examples.

Years ago I was a very heavy EL AL flyer. I was a Platinum member (well before they invented Top Platinum). I used to fly a good deal in First. They were sourcing their First Class meals ex-London from Hermolis and they were really excellent. All of a sudden they stopped doing this and began to source them from TLV. That meant I needed to start ordering a special Badatz meal. These were awful, small, and basically identical to the business class meals. I was furious about how I and others who required glatt meals were being treated and took some photos. I sent them to Hayim Romano, the then CEO of EL AL together with my cut up Platinum card, as personal registered mail. I wrote that he may wish to order this junk nexst time he flies in First. I happened to know a few EL AL Insiders in those days and they told me later that they had never seen him so angry. Within a short time they had arranged for me to travel to Hamasbia where I discovered that they were perfectly capable of producing good meals, but that it was basically down to cost. A couple of letters later, carefully coordinated with them, and things changed for the better pretty radically. One thing I was told though was that NOBODY HAD EVER COMPLAINED BEFORE.

Now a couple of small British Airways ones:

The BA premium lounge in LHR T5 is the Concorde Room (CCR). The way kosher meals work at LHR is that you can get a panini and soup in the business class lounge and a main course in the First Class lounge. The CCR is essentially the same as the First Class lounge except that the non-kosher menu is worlds apart, and very upscale. So I asked (like Oliver Twist ...) if I could get kosher soup there. Of course, the answer was "No", only in the business class lounge. SO I told them I would be going there first to get my soup and would return later. Sensing the absurdity of the situation the manager told me he would get it for me. Not wanting a repeat, I wrote. In the reply I was told that from now onwards there would be a supply of kosher soup in the CCR. Well, that never happened, but anyone asking for kosher soup there will get it, even if the manager brings it personally from the other lounge. Once again, NOBODY HAD EVER WRITTEN ABOUT THE ISSUE BEFORE.

BA serves fresh orange juice on board in First (and possible in Club World as well). That used to be with the exception of ex-TLV, where they would serve some vile orange coloured liquid they call "nectar" in Israel, and which in the UK they tend to call "orange squash". The thing is that it used to come in a plastic bottle which looked just like the ones that BA got their really fresh orange juice in in the UK. Once again, I wrote. The response this time was interesting: it seems that (reading between the lines) BA were actually being conned by their Israeli supplier. This was rectified within a week. Again, NOBODY ELSE HAD EVER WRITTEN ABOUT THIS ISSUE!

The common denominator in these anecdotes is that people (especially kosher travelers) rarely complain. If they did complain on a regular basis it would be the end of Stogel/WAM dog food, at least in premium cabins. So its no good setting up websites with photos. Take those photos, and plenty of them, and SEND THEM TO THE AIRLINE! Make sure they know how much status you have (if you do have high status with them). An dkeep doing it again and again. Eventually things will improve. I have, likewise raised kosher food issues at "premium members evenings" which BA host from time to time. Nothing else will change matters.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: DTM on March 05, 2018, 05:59:21 AM
Excellent posts and ideas. I like both, the website combined with individual complaints sent with a cc copy to the website.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: BarryLincoln on March 05, 2018, 02:41:24 PM
The common denominator in these anecdotes is that people (especially kosher travelers) rarely complain.

Sorry... this made me laugh... I think there are several members of this forum that would probably beg to differ...
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on March 05, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Sorry... this made me laugh... I think there are several members of this forum that would probably beg to differ...

Lol :)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on March 05, 2018, 03:19:01 PM
Sorry... this made me laugh... I think there are several members of this forum that would probably beg to differ...
Maybe on this forum, but everyone I know would never complain about a KSML, everyone knows that it's horrible and that's  the end of it.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: 159dallas on March 05, 2018, 03:59:26 PM
Maybe on this forum, but everyone I know would never complain about a KSML, everyone knows that it's horrible and that's  the end of it.

Both are true some will some won't
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Alexsei on March 05, 2018, 04:55:26 PM
Is the case different for other special meals such as halal ?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Mordyk on March 05, 2018, 05:01:24 PM
I sent them to Hayim Romano, the then CEO of EL AL together with my cut up Platinum card, as personal registered mail. I wrote that he may wish to order this junk nexst time he flies in First. I happened to know a few EL AL Insiders in those days and they told me later that they had never seen him so angry.
;D
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 05, 2018, 07:41:57 PM
Thanks all for your responses and input.

Although I would characterize myself as a chronic letter-writer (and have gotten pretty positive results over the years from airlines, hotels, etc.) and I'm sure plenty of others here fall into that same category, I think it's fair to say that most people will not bother to send a letter, write an email, or complain by any medium. Even though complaining has become so much easier with email, twitter, facebook, etc., most people either don't know how to do it right, or will not find the time. But I believe that many of those same people who won't take the time to write/email a complaint to the airline, will still take a couple of quick photos and upload them onto a website, if the interface is simple enough. This minimal effort will provide a valuable reference for any other passenger to show the airline what good or bad kosher meals may look like, where there is room for improvement, and which airline (and caterer) has really done a great job.

There's no question that everyone (and especially those with status, and those flying business or first class) should be sending emails to the airline whenever they're served a sub-par meal. But the people at the airlines who are receiving these complaints most likely know very little about kosher meals. They don't know how bad or good your meal was, relative to what their competition is serving. They don't know that your meal in first class may have been identical to the meal served in coach. They probably don't know that the same caterer whom they sourced your meal from, is currently making a much better meal for one or more other airlines. They may not even know that it's possible for a kosher airline meal to look and taste good. They probably don't realize that they are serving far superior meals on the same exact plane when it returns from Europe, Asia, etc.  They most likely don't realize that they have the option of serving a kosher passenger in first or business class on new china and with new flatware, as some airline have arranged with their kosher caterers.

So although sending emails is obviously the most effective method of effecting change, I think that an email only provides an individual's perspective, without sufficient reference points or depth of information to let an airline know what options there are in the kosher market, and how they could improve their meal offerings.  The ultimate objective would be to move the under-performing kosher caterers to a higher standard, either on their own volition, or at behest of the airlines. It may be less realistic to expect any dramatic improvement in coach meals, which airlines probably budget a very small dollar amount for, but efforts like these should certainly have a positive impact for meals in business and first class, and any increased focus on quality of kosher meals should hopefully lead to overall improvements of standards across the board.

Bottom line.... The airlines don't get enough complaints about kosher meals, but also aren't aware enough about options and alternatives in the kosher meal market. I think they need pressure and education. I would encourage everyone to reach out to the airline when they have a bad meal experience. But I think the website would also be a really useful tool to collect information, help educate the airlines and push the PR pendulum.

My web design skills are pretty limited, but I'm wondering if anyone here with the requisite web design skills would take this on as a pet-project. (I'd be happy to assist in any other way.)
Please reply here if you'd volunteer for the task, or feel free to share with anyone else who you think could help with this.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Einstein on March 05, 2018, 11:42:50 PM
Its always bothered me as well....thanks for bringing this up...
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shmoe joe on March 06, 2018, 12:19:50 AM
IMO the real answer is, because most people anyways bring their own food. So they don't end up touching what's served, so they don't even know to complain.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Proisrael on March 06, 2018, 03:49:48 AM
Here you go, someone get Jared Kushner and Ivanka to retweet this

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/kosher-food-airplanes
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 06, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Here you go, someone get Jared Kushner and Ivanka to retweet this

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/kosher-food-airplanes

Petition doesn't seem to be getting much traction yet. But the good news is I think the website is in the works.

I welcome your ideas and suggestions for website content and features....
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: DTM on March 06, 2018, 04:02:20 PM
Petition doesn't seem to be getting much traction yet. But the good news is I think the website is in the works.

I welcome your ideas and suggestions for website content and features....

Post flight reviews of kosher meals should include the specific Airline, flight date and number, seating class, meal (b,l,d), name of the kosher food supplier, and each of the specific items on the tray, each separately rated, so that Airlines and food suppliers can look to see where specific improvements can be made.   
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: @Yehuda on March 06, 2018, 04:40:39 PM
Here you go, someone get Jared Kushner and Ivanka to retweet this

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/kosher-food-airplanes
Oh mylanta. If we need the government to step in because of poor KSMLs, we've got problems. Please leave them out of it, they have enough to do otherwise.

I really support @milechazzer's idea for a site, but I am nervous about Chillul Hashem issues.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: DTM on March 06, 2018, 04:56:20 PM
Oh mylanta. If we need the government to step in because of poor KSMLs, we've got problems. Please leave them out of it, they have enough to do otherwise.

I really support @milechazzer's idea for a site, but I am nervous about Chillul Hashem issues.

Another concern may be that marginally religious Jewish travelers will opt for the non-kosher meals as a result. Some have the image that the kosher option is healthier; and/or will be more likely to choose kosher if they think it may be equivalent or better in taste or quality. 

Best if the website publicity could somehow be limited to those who are firmly committed to kosher meals no matter what. And then to the airlines and their kosher food suppliers.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: momo on March 06, 2018, 06:35:42 PM
Anyone who is wishy washy about kosher, once they get a look at what’s being served, even if they already ordered kosher, will automatically ask for a non kosher option, website or not.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 07, 2018, 11:38:19 AM
Post flight reviews of kosher meals should include the specific Airline, flight date and number, seating class, meal (b,l,d), name of the kosher food supplier, and each of the specific items on the tray, each separately rated, so that Airlines and food suppliers can look to see where specific improvements can be made.   

Thanks. I feel like that may be expecting a bit much from the average traveler.
I would hope to have the airline, date, class, bkfst/lunch/dinner/snack, caterer, and rating of the meal (possibly from 1-5 stars), as well as at least one photo required.
Would suggest optional input of flight #, route, seat #, and additional comments.
I think a minority of people will actually critique each dish (or even photograph each course or dish separately), and we may be better off getting more people to post the minimum information, and let the real food critics share as much info as they want in the comments.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: DTM on March 07, 2018, 11:48:30 AM
As an average traveler I’d like to be able to say that the main was ok, or was too salty, the roll was stale, or frozen (the latter could be airline’s fault but they should know what to improve), and that the dessert was canned sugary faux fruit, etcetera...

A required photo may be asking too much, as some people do not know how to do that, but you still want their input.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on March 07, 2018, 12:04:01 PM
Tumblr is a type of site to easily post photos of terrible meals
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 07, 2018, 07:10:33 PM
Oh mylanta. If we need the government to step in because of poor KSMLs, we've got problems. Please leave them out of it, they have enough to do otherwise.

I really support @milechazzer's idea for a site, but I am nervous about Chillul Hashem issues.

I share that concern. I think it may be inevitable for a site like this to attract the attention of some "haters".  It would need to be titled and worded carefully to avoid sending the wrong message.  Will probably also need to be moderated by someone to keep the spam out.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 07, 2018, 07:22:58 PM
As an average traveler I’d like to be able to say that the main was ok, or was too salty, the roll was stale, or frozen (the latter could be airline’s fault but they should know what to improve), and that the dessert was canned sugary faux fruit, etcetera...

A required photo may be asking too much, as some people do not know how to do that, but you still want their input.

Without breaking it down to separate fields for comments on each dish, I think you should be able to post all your comments (e.g., too salty, frozen, dry, etc.) in a general comment field.  That being said, I think people really need to be encouraged to take a picture and upload it, since most of the story can probably be conveyed with a single picture, and I think the ultimate value of a site like this may be  just to showcase the contrasting appearance of meals between different airlines, caterers, etc.; how some airlines may be procuring much worse meals than other airlines, though from the exact same caterer; and how some airlines may be serving a meal that it 10x better for passengers traveling from Europe than the one served for passengers traveling from the US. So I really think you need to get people to post at least one photo, in order to help make an impact.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ChAiM'l on March 07, 2018, 08:47:45 PM
I was just made aware of this thread after speaking to the owner of a large kosher airline caterer (whose meals are quite popular).

He basically made the same points as some of the above posts, that NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.

He mentioned that they recently got a contract to supply a route where too many passengers complained about the subpar food.

He says that the catering managers are well aware of the substandard meals but are happy to continue with them as long as there isn't too much pushback.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: milechazzer on March 07, 2018, 10:11:44 PM
Thanks for chiming in. Any other insight you could share?
Is this a US-based caterer or foreign?
Is your understanding that airlines generally request the cheapest possible option from the caterer, and the caterer then does everything possible to keep costs down?
How much of a difference is there in the meals sold by the same caterer to different airlines?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: SSLPhD on March 08, 2018, 12:15:23 AM
Here you go, someone get Jared Kushner and Ivanka to retweet this

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/kosher-food-airplanes
Did I read that right?  Equal Rights Amendment?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: @Yehuda on March 08, 2018, 11:02:47 AM
I share that concern. I think it may be inevitable for a site like this to attract the attention of some "haters".  It would need to be titled and worded carefully to avoid sending the wrong message.  Will probably also need to be moderated by someone to keep the spam out.
May it be successful enough that you actually get spam. :)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: chevron on March 08, 2018, 04:23:24 PM
Would say the same about the wine
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on March 09, 2018, 12:24:44 PM
B6 KSML in mint.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on May 08, 2018, 01:03:29 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/08/united-airlines-reducing-food-alcohol-options-first-class.html
Noted a United spokesman: "With all of our food offerings, we monitor customer feedback and what they would prefer and adjust accordingly."
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on May 08, 2018, 02:16:34 PM
Guys shouldn't we be complaining to the top suppliers....what options do the airlines have?

Hermis from Londen?

From the U.S. Bornstein is really the only option. Instead of complaining to the airlines complain to Bornstein...especially as a Jewish company with the responsibility and privilege of being the exclusive provider of kosher meals they really should take it upon themselves to up their game...also why not take a little profit loss and offer even the economy meals to be a little substantial.

Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 08, 2018, 02:29:31 PM
Guys shouldn't we be complaining to the top suppliers....what options do the airlines have?

Hermis from Londen?

From the U.S. Bornstein is really the only option. Instead of complaining to the airlines complain to Bornstein...especially as a Jewish company with the responsibility and privilege of being the exclusive provider of kosher meals they really should take it upon themselves to up their game...also why not take a little profit loss and offer even the economy meals to be a little substantial.
There are others
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: thaber on May 08, 2018, 04:05:58 PM
I feel like I've seen this thread before, a few years ago. paging @TimT
Ultimately, no one is picking an airline based on the KSML, and they know that.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: MeirS on May 08, 2018, 04:10:48 PM
I was just made aware of this thread after speaking to the owner of a large kosher airline caterer (whose meals are quite popular).

He basically made the same points as some of the above posts, that NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.

He mentioned that they recently got a contract to supply a route where too many passengers complained about the subpar food.

He says that the catering managers are well aware of the substandard meals but are happy to continue with them as long as there isn't too much pushback.
I realize this was a while ago but I'm just seeing it now.
Was this one of my neighbors, Moshe or Mendel?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 08, 2018, 04:12:03 PM
I feel like I've seen this thread before, a few years ago. paging @TimT
Ultimately, no one is picking an airline based on the KSML, and they know that.

-1
Just look at how the meal keeps getting brought up when people discuss ElAl. Why is the meal any less a part of the product than anything else? Will other aspects trump the meal, yes, but it should certainly be taken into account.

THIS they certainly know. Just look at the attention some airlines give to the regular premium class meals.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: @Yehuda on May 08, 2018, 04:27:22 PM
Guys shouldn't we be complaining to the top suppliers....what options do the airlines have?

Hermis from Londen?

From the U.S. Bornstein is really the only option. Instead of complaining to the airlines complain to Bornstein...especially as a Jewish company with the responsibility and privilege of being the exclusive provider of kosher meals they really should take it upon themselves to up their game...also why not take a little profit loss and offer even the economy meals to be a little substantial.
When was the last time you saw someone voluntarily take a profit loss?

Any update on the site @milechazzer?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: sky121 on May 08, 2018, 04:50:39 PM
Sometimes when I look at certain meals I think we'd be better off with a bagel, closed pack of cream cheese and a bag of chips.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on May 08, 2018, 04:52:14 PM
Sometimes when I look at certain meals I think we'd be better off with a bagel, closed pack of cream cheese and a bag of chips.
That was part of the KSML I had here :)
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/trip-notes/trip-notes-final-united-747-flight-2-days-maui/
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Abebee on May 08, 2018, 05:09:43 PM
This was the meal I had 2 weeks after Pesach :(
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on May 08, 2018, 05:53:05 PM
This was the meal I had 2 weeks after Pesach :(

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=24510.msg1925505#msg1925505
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: chff on May 08, 2018, 06:02:16 PM
This was the meal I had 2 weeks after Pesach :(

not trying to defend either side, but I got Bornstein meals that were expired (not by days, but by months), Bornstein claimed to me that they deliver daily, must have been the airline's messup, LSG didnt reply to me on the matter. Bornstein is not allowed to deliver directly to the airlines
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on May 08, 2018, 06:04:19 PM
When was the last time you saw someone voluntarily take a profit loss?

Any update on the site @milechazzer?

I know its an 'in the clouds' idea but if your one of a few companies responsible for providing kosher meals and its a religious business in every sense of how it operates....taking a tiny loss and giving something a bit better seems worth it --- maybe our Jewish orgs. including the many well funded Kasharsu agencies can subsidize this
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on May 08, 2018, 06:05:14 PM
I realize this was a while ago but I'm just seeing it now.
Was this one of my neighbors, Moshe or Mendel?

"I was just made aware of this thread after speaking to the owner of a large kosher airline caterer (whose meals are quite popular).

He basically made the same points as some of the above posts, that NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.

He mentioned that they recently got a contract to supply a route where too many passengers complained about the subpar food.

He says that the catering managers are well aware of the substandard meals but are happy to continue with them as long as there isn't too much pushback.
I realize this was a while ago but I'm just seeing it now.
Was this one of my neighbors, Moshe or Mendel?"

-------- q below

....So his company took notice or his company happens to have much better food than all the other Kosher suppliers and once people complained to the airline they knew to suddenly approach him?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ChAiM'l on May 08, 2018, 06:31:18 PM
I realize this was a while ago but I'm just seeing it now.
Was this one of my neighbors, Moshe or Mendel?
Mendel K.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: MeirS on May 08, 2018, 06:46:35 PM
Mendel K.
I remember once flying LHR-JFK and he was on the same flight as me. They didn't have a meal for him but he didn't say anything.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: moko on May 08, 2018, 07:03:16 PM
Guys shouldn't we be complaining to the top suppliers....what options do the airlines have?

Hermis from Londen?

From the U.S. Bornstein is really the only option. Instead of complaining to the airlines complain to Bornstein...especially as a Jewish company with the responsibility and privilege of being the exclusive provider of kosher meals they really should take it upon themselves to up their game...also why not take a little profit loss and offer even the economy meals to be a little substantial.
wrong. I know a few caterers who have bid on contracts but lost. Additionally, borenstein undercuts everyone and provides garbage. I know caterers in Boston that woul love an airline contract and can provide a solid product but would have to charge $10-15 per meal and the airlines don't want to pay.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 08, 2018, 07:24:05 PM
I recently flew Cathay premium economy EWR-HKG, on the outbound I was served Borenstein, worse than dog food and literally nothing edible. Inbound was served Hermolis which was delicious and like getting Reserve Cut in comparison.

We should really make a stink over Borensteins, they should be publicly embarrassed that they make Jews fly hungry because they are greedy.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: sillypainter on May 08, 2018, 08:37:09 PM
I recently flew Cathay premium economy EWR-HKG, on the outbound I was served Borenstein, worse than dog food and literally nothing edible. Inbound was served Hermolis which was delicious and like getting Reserve Cut in comparison.

We should really make a stink over Borensteins, they should be publicly embarrassed that they make Jews fly hungry because they are greedy.

That was a punishment for flying Y to HKG. As a DDFER we expect better 😀

Joke aside. I agree with you 100%. We have organizations for everything. Why isn't there an organization that caters an abundance of food for the hungry Jews? Or at least charge airlines cost price.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 08, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
That was a punishment for flying Y to HKG. As a DDFER we expect better 😀

Booked last minute, didn’t really have a choice.
I can only imagine paying for business and getting Borensteins, such a freaking disgrace!
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 08, 2018, 09:12:28 PM
I recently flew Cathay premium economy EWR-HKG, on the outbound I was served Borenstein, worse than dog food and literally nothing edible. Inbound was served Hermolis which was delicious and like getting Reserve Cut in comparison.

We should really make a stink over Borensteins, they should be publicly embarrassed that they make Jews fly hungry because they are greedy.
Just remember who owns Borensteins.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 08, 2018, 09:13:57 PM
Just remember who owns Borensteins.

I have absolutely no idea
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on May 08, 2018, 09:18:13 PM
I have absolutely no idea
LY.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 08, 2018, 09:26:09 PM
Dog food shouldn’t be served as KSML even in Y. It’s pretty ridiculous that in J and F airlines don’t bother to offer a CHOICE of KSML!
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: chff on May 08, 2018, 11:09:15 PM
I flew SQ R and got a very poor KSML from Bornstein, poor regarding the offering, not quality.
I asked my sales rep afterwards in Suites you offer a meal labeled business? He said "there is no kosher kitchen in NY"
So basically if SQ orders from BC a business meal for suites with plastic utensils, don't blame Bornstein
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 09, 2018, 12:06:48 AM
I flew SQ R and got a very poor KSML from Bornstein, poor regarding the offering, not quality.
I asked my sales rep afterwards in Suites you offer a meal labeled business? He said "there is no kosher kitchen in NY"
So basically if SQ orders from BC a business meal for suites with plastic utensils, don't blame Bornstein

You got a high quality meal from Borenstein?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Jo 08701 on May 09, 2018, 08:21:19 AM
I wanna share my experience which I had on a flight from IAD to LHR on BA, I got served a day after Pesach Sheini kosher for Passover food which was expired.
Any advice what route to take with that would be appreciated.
I did filed a complaint onboard with the FA, what can I expect from BA, so far didn't heard from them.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Jo 08701 on May 09, 2018, 08:23:21 AM
I made pictures of the packages, I just can't upload it here.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: chff on May 09, 2018, 10:12:46 AM
I wanna share my experience which I had on a flight from IAD to LHR on BA, I got served a day after Pesach Sheini kosher for Passover food which was expired.
Any advice what route to take with that would be appreciated.
I did filed a complaint onboard with the FA, what can I expect from BA, so far didn't heard from them.
What company meal?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on May 09, 2018, 10:37:49 AM
wrong. I know a few caterers who have bid on contracts but lost. Additionally, borenstein undercuts everyone and provides garbage. I know caterers in Boston that woul love an airline contract and can provide a solid product but would have to charge $10-15 per meal and the airlines don't want to pay.
an aa flight attendant once told me (a few years ago) that ksml costs them $25 on average. not sure how she knew and dont remember details as i was less affluent traveler back then but nonetheless, that stuck out and every time i order ksml, i remember it. so i try to  find the good in the meal so i dont feel guilty ordering and having it go to garbage...
on a separate note, b6 also uses borenstein and the meals are significantly superior to other carriers. its all about what the airlines order from the caterer
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on May 09, 2018, 10:44:33 AM
an aa flight attendant once told me (a few years ago) that ksml costs them $25 on average. not sure how she knew and dont remember details as i was less affluent traveler back then but nonetheless, that stuck out and every time i order ksml, i remember it. so i try to  find the good in the meal so i dont feel guilty ordering and having it go to garbage...
on a separate note, b6 also uses borenstein and the meals are significantly superior to other carriers. its all about what the airlines order from the caterer
I don't believe they pay anything close to $25 per meal.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Jo 08701 on May 09, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
What company meal?
Borenstein, the expired label was on a package from regal meal, which was the hot portion of the meal.
I guess IAD-LHR is not a common market for frum people, and the stuff was sitting at the caterer at IAD from pesach, but that does not explain the expired food.
For breakfast they didn't even served it, and just brought fruit from first class. they were constantly apologizing for the mistake.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on May 09, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
That was a punishment for flying Y to HKG. As a DDFER we expect better 😀

Joke aside. I agree with you 100%. We have organizations for everything. Why isn't there an organization that caters an abundance of food for the hungry Jews? Or at least charge airlines cost price.
i'm not sure that i totally agree with this statement. most, or at least a significant majority, if not all members here costs the airlines money by using points/miles for the ticket. not that there is something wrong with that but the fierce competition is the cause for continuous devaluations. it would take a very sizeable financial investment to cater to specific special meals when airlines offer kosher, halal, gluten free, vegan, etc... they wouldnt be able so fond of having to do it for all...
they obviously find that all special meals are probably not as closely scrutinized and therefore dont care enough. it is also likely very difficult to prioritize ksml when the requests are likely sporadic and inconsistent. it is probable that say iad-fra on LH is not a frequently traveled ksml request. or cx bos-hkg. or even nyc-tokyo or any other far flung asian destination on any of the airlines that we try to use points on for their hard product. my thought process is to first research what the request history looks like across the entire route network of a specific airline and then work the way up, at least on a specific route.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 09, 2018, 10:59:24 AM
i'm not sure that i totally agree with this statement. most, or at least a significant majority, if not all members here costs the airlines money by using points/miles for the ticket. not that there is something wrong with that but the fierce competition is the cause for continuous devaluations. it would take a very sizeable financial investment to cater to specific special meals when airlines offer kosher, halal, gluten free, vegan, etc... they wouldnt be able so fond of having to do it for all...
they obviously find that all special meals are probably not as closely scrutinized and therefore dont care enough. it is also likely very difficult to prioritize ksml when the requests are likely sporadic and inconsistent. it is probable that say iad-fra on LH is not a frequently traveled ksml request. or cx bos-hkg. or even nyc-tokyo or any other far flung asian destination on any of the airlines that we try to use points on for their hard product. my thought process is to first research what the request history looks like across the entire route network of a specific airline and then work the way up, at least on a specific route.
Why do you think they don't make money when we use points?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: moko on May 09, 2018, 01:44:35 PM
an aa flight attendant once told me (a few years ago) that ksml costs them $25 on average. not sure how she knew and dont remember details as i was less affluent traveler back then but nonetheless, that stuck out and every time i order ksml, i remember it. so i try to  find the good in the meal so i dont feel guilty ordering and having it go to garbage...
on a separate note, b6 also uses borenstein and the meals are significantly superior to other carriers. its all about what the airlines order from the caterer
I can only speak to the facts I was privy to. On the other hand. Check out this article. It includes all culinary costs not just the actual meal https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-10-28/steaks-on-a-plane-which-us-airline-spends-the-most-on-dinner/amp
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 14, 2018, 04:27:28 PM
Inspired by DDMS post, finally complained to CX.

Hi,

I would like to complain about the Kosher meal that I received on the Cathay flight from EWR-HKG. It came from Borenstein caterers, and it was absolutely disgusting. Throughout the 16 hour flight I was hungry because the food was so terrible. 2nd, the flight attendant notified me that they forgot to bring me a dinner meal, so they served me the nasty breakfast twice. As a premium economy customer, I believe that I deserved far better than that dog food that I received.

In contrast to this terrible experience, on my return flight from HKG-EWR, I was served food from Hermolis catering, and the food was actually delicious. It was 1000x better than the dog food I was served on the inbound flight.

Please pass on this feedback to whoever is in charge of ordering the Kosher meals. There is no reason that your valued customers should be tortured from Borenstein's terrible "food", when Hermolis catering offers an excellent alternative option.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on May 15, 2018, 07:46:34 PM
Great DDMS post. Maybe it will grab some attention and bring change.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on May 15, 2018, 07:57:16 PM
LY.
I assumed Mr. Bornstein - Elal owns bornsteins?

I wonder if all of this may be Lashon Hara?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on May 16, 2018, 02:09:17 AM
Inspired by DDMS post, finally complained to CX.

Hi,

I would like to complain about the Kosher meal that I received on the Cathay flight from EWR-HKG. It came from Borenstein caterers, and it was absolutely disgusting. Throughout the 16 hour flight I was hungry because the food was so terrible. 2nd, the flight attendant notified me that they forgot to bring me a dinner meal, so they served me the nasty breakfast twice. As a premium economy customer, I believe that I deserved far better than that dog food that I received.

In contrast to this terrible experience, on my return flight from HKG-EWR, I was served food from Hermolis catering, and the food was actually delicious. It was 1000x better than the dog food I was served on the inbound flight.

Please pass on this feedback to whoever is in charge of ordering the Kosher meals. There is no reason that your valued customers should be tortured from Borenstein's terrible "food", when Hermolis catering offers an excellent alternative option.

Thanks,
Nice. Post a comment on DDMS.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on May 16, 2018, 02:09:44 AM
I assumed Mr. Bornstein - Elal owns bornsteins?

I wonder if all of this may be Lashon Hara?
Definite toeles if the other option is going hungry.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 16, 2018, 09:43:37 AM
Definite toeles if the other option is going hungry.

I don’t think Borensteins will ever change, but if we can push for airlines to use caterers we do like, then there’s a chance things will get better.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 16, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
I don’t think Borensteins will ever change, but if we can push for airlines to use caterers we do like, then there’s a chance things will get better.
Why wouldn't they if their customers demand it?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shaulyaakov on May 16, 2018, 11:07:31 AM
I've never had a specific issue with Borenstein - it's the same food as the food on Elal ex NYC- which is by no means delicious, but is certainly edible. Even the SKML on Elal is edible, except the "mezonos" roll. Maybe there's an issue with the handling of the meal. There's no reason it should arrive frozen. Contrast that to some of the terrible meals ex-Europe, and I'll take a Borenstein meal. 
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 16, 2018, 12:12:10 PM
Why wouldn't they if their customers demand it?

Choose:
-Money, money, money
-Old habits die hard.
-Israelis don't care about customers.
-They make it better and it still sucks.

Or you can simply notify the airlines about other caterers are far, far better, some of which they already order from.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ajs625 on May 16, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
I've never had a specific issue with Borenstein - it's the same food as the food on Elal ex NYC- which is by no means delicious, but is certainly edible. Even the SKML on Elal is edible, except the "mezonos" roll. Maybe there's an issue with the handling of the meal. There's no reason it should arrive frozen. Contrast that to some of the terrible meals ex-Europe, and I'll take a Borenstein meal.

I believe ElAl has an ownership interest in Borenstein Caterers. Hence, the reason the food is the same as ElAl as well as why the food is not good.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 16, 2018, 02:11:17 PM
Why wouldn't they if their customers demand it?

Ask the same question about all changes that one might want to see from ELAL.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 16, 2018, 02:19:03 PM
Ask the same question about all changes that one might want to see from ELAL.
The customers don't demand it from them.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 16, 2018, 02:26:58 PM
The customers don't demand it from them.
Customers don't want better service?

Customers don't want a better mileage program?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 16, 2018, 02:32:16 PM
Customers don't want better service?

Customers don't want a better mileage program?
Keyword demand
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 16, 2018, 04:37:10 PM
Why wouldn't they if their customers demand it?
Are you referring to the airlines as customers, or to the end users?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 16, 2018, 04:54:13 PM
Are you referring to the airlines as customers, or to the end users?
The airlines.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 16, 2018, 07:00:51 PM
The airlines.

So going back to the original statements.

I don’t think Borensteins will ever change, but if we can push for airlines to use caterers we do like, then there’s a chance things will get better.
Why wouldn't they if their customers demand it?

The airlines are probably pretty clueless when it comes to kosher meals, other than the little feedback they (don't) get from the flying public. Given the ELAL mentality, it's hard to see that Borenstein's changes based on demand. It is only once they feel the pain of losing customers, that they might change.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on May 16, 2018, 07:28:09 PM
So going back to the original statements.
Why wouldn't they if their customers demand it?


The airlines are probably pretty clueless when it comes to kosher meals, other than the little feedback they (don't) get from the flying public. Given the ELAL mentality, it's hard to see that Borenstein's changes based on demand. It is only once they feel the pain of losing customers, that they might change.
This all explains why complaining about it can work. Customer service works that for each complaint there are a certain amount who are upset but didn't bother complaining. This makes a complaint campaign potentially very effective.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shimino1 on May 16, 2018, 07:55:55 PM
I happen to be crazy in the sense that I actually like airplane food. There is something about the experience of unwrapping a kosher meal and tearing plastic wrap with your teeth that really makes the food delicious IMO.

I almost never BYOK and am happy with most KSML offerings. I once booked a flight with two stopovers, 10 hours before departure. Since I didn't think we would have KSML's on any of the flights, I brought my own meals. The first flight we eat the stuff we brought but the next two flights actually had KSML's so we ate that instead of the fresh, restaurant prepared food that we brought with us.  ;D

In any case some stuff is so vile that even I can't eat a single bite.
The worst meal we ever got was flying MLE-IST on TK. The outbound flight KSML was actually very good, especially the cheese plate that had 3 or 4 different cheeses that were delicious. The return leg was a shelf stored Stogol meal that doesn't need to be refrigerated and has a six month shelf life. I don't know what they put in there that makes it last so long without a freezer but whatever it is must be nuclear. In any case I got a salmon meal and upon opening the thing, a disgusting rancid, rotten smell filled the entire business class cabin. I actually took one bite after which I literally grabbed the arm of the nearest steward and asked him to throw out the meal immediately.

My best experience was on a three hour flight from SIN-HAN on SQ. Despite it being such a short flight, they offered both my wife and I a choice of either a fish meal or a vegetarian meal. I asked for both and they readily obliged. The meal started out with a huge entree course that would have counted for a meal in itself since it included a good sized portion of pickled salmon which was excellent. Both the Fish main and the vegetarian meal were delicious and well sized and for the first time on a plane I was stuffed to the point that I couldn't finish my meal.

Someone claimed earlier in this thread that no one will pick an airline because of their KSML quality. That is not exact. People do choose an airline due to their overall product quality and the meal is a big part of the soft product.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on May 16, 2018, 08:20:59 PM
I happen to be crazy in the sense that I actually like airplane food. There is something about the experience of unwrapping a kosher meal and tearing plastic wrap with your teeth that really makes the food delicious IMO.

I almost never BYOK and am happy with most KSML offerings. I once booked a flight with two stopovers, 10 hours before departure. Since I didn't think we would have KSML's on any of the flights, I brought my own meals. The first flight we eat the stuff we brought but the next two flights actually had KSML's so we ate that instead of the fresh, restaurant prepared food that we brought with us.  ;D

In any case some stuff is so vile that even I can't eat a single bite.
The worst meal we ever got was flying MLE-IST on TK. The outbound flight KSML was actually very good, especially the cheese plate that had 3 or 4 different cheeses that were delicious. The return leg was a shelf stored Stogol meal that doesn't need to be refrigerated and has a six month shelf life. I don't know what they put in there that makes it last so long without a freezer but whatever it is must be nuclear. In any case I got a salmon meal and upon opening the thing, a disgusting rancid, rotten smell filled the entire business class cabin. I actually took one bite after which I literally grabbed the arm of the nearest steward and asked him to throw out the meal immediately.

My best experience was on a three hour flight from SIN-HAN on SQ. Despite it being such a short flight, they offered both my wife and I a choice of either a fish meal or a vegetarian meal. I asked for both and they readily obliged. The meal started out with a huge entree course that would have counted for a meal in itself since it included a good sized portion of pickled salmon which was excellent. Both the Fish main and the vegetarian meal were delicious and well sized and for the first time on a plane I was stuffed to the point that I couldn't finish my meal.

Someone claimed earlier in this thread that no one will pick an airline because of their KSML quality. That is not exact. People do choose an airline due to their overall product quality and the meal is a big part of the soft product.
Wow!
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Hudi on May 16, 2018, 08:23:30 PM
I'm also one of the crazy ones who actually likes airplane food  ;D

But does anyone know the caterer used for Intl flights out of SFO? Back in January I flew CI Premium Economy from SFO - TPE and had the absolute worst KSML (And I've had plenty of Stogel meals) but i was too tired to take pictures and forgot the name of the caterer.

I now have an SQ flight to HKG in First and I'm dreading being served from the same caterer.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on May 17, 2018, 07:45:05 AM
I happen to be crazy in the sense that I actually like airplane food. There is something about the experience of unwrapping a kosher meal and tearing plastic wrap with your teeth that really makes the food delicious IMO.

Me too! It is part of the experience :)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ChAiM'l on May 17, 2018, 07:57:55 AM
Me too! It is part of the experience :)
Me too. I actually go to high end restaurants and and ask them to cook my meal the way Borenstein does because I love it so much.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on May 17, 2018, 08:01:22 AM
Me too. I actually go to high end restaurants and and ask them to cook my meal the way Borenstein does because I love it so much.
Me too! It is part of the experience :)
Is KSML abuse now part of #MeToo ???
;D
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on May 17, 2018, 09:40:28 AM
Is KSML abuse now part of #MeToo ???
;D

Some people seem to be exhibiting masochistic traits.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shimino1 on May 17, 2018, 09:48:20 AM
Me too. I actually go to high end restaurants and and ask them to cook my meal the way Borenstein does because I love it so much.
ALOL.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on May 17, 2018, 11:32:06 AM
Me too. I actually go to high end restaurants and and ask them to cook my meal the way Borenstein does because I love it so much.

I just laughed out loud ^golden
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on May 17, 2018, 07:34:22 PM
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/awful-kosher-airline-meals-fault/#comment-1356196

So according to Mr Hermolis it does help to complain.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: eliteflyer on May 22, 2018, 11:40:40 AM
On board AA in J YYZ-MIA this morning, my pre-ordered Kosher menu selection was not loaded. the FA wasn't even apologetic about it. He just looked down at his manifest as he was taking orders and said "It says here "Kosher"...Not going to happen! Would you like the eggs or the oatmeal?"
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on May 22, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
On board AA in J YYZ-MIA this morning, my pre-ordered Kosher menu selection was not loaded. the FA wasn't even apologetic about it. He just looked down at his manifest as he was taking orders and said "It says here "Kosher"...Not going to happen! Would you like the eggs or the oatmeal?"
i've gotten $100 voucher in the past when kosher was not provided after reserving
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: nafnaf12 on May 22, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
i've gotten $100 voucher in the past when kosher was not provided after reserving
on UA I have gotten $500
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on May 22, 2018, 09:47:43 PM
on UA I have gotten $500

That is a great deal.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Jo 08701 on May 23, 2018, 04:16:58 PM
Talking about KSML,  An interesting point.
When I flew once from TLV,  the ksml from hamasbia had just a plain yogurt/leben. I noticed my neighbor had the regular meal and the yogurt was a flavored, with a heimish hechsher,   later after they finished serving I asked the FA if they have more from it and they gladly gave it to me.
Talk about discrimination against the frum community...
Why can't the kosher providers give something tasty?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: MeirS on May 23, 2018, 04:53:59 PM
Talking about KSML,  An interesting point.
When I flew once from TLV,  the ksml from hamasbia had just a plain yogurt/leben. I noticed my neighbor had the regular meal and the yogurt was a flavored, with a heimish hechsher,   later after they finished serving I asked the FA if they have more from it and they gladly gave it to me.
Talk about discrimination against the frum community...
Why can't the kosher providers give something tasty?
In which class?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Jo 08701 on May 23, 2018, 05:21:32 PM
Economy
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: eliteflyer on May 24, 2018, 06:51:15 PM
On board AA in J YYZ-MIA this morning, my pre-ordered Kosher menu selection was not loaded. the FA wasn't even apologetic about it. He just looked down at his manifest as he was taking orders and said "It says here "Kosher"...Not going to happen! Would you like the eggs or the oatmeal?"
Received today:

Quote
Thank you for contacting American Airlines, my name is Josh and I am happy to address your concerns.

I'm very sorry that you weren't able to enjoy a meal aboard your recent flight because the special meal you ordered was not delivered. No doubt you weren't only disappointed, but hungry and uncomfortable as well.

I've credited your AAdvantage® account with 2,000 Customer Service Bonus miles to apologize in a tangible way.

Mr. Eliteflyer, we want to be the very best and your correspondence, while disappointing, is a valuable reminder of how hard we must work to meet our customers' expectations. We've valued your business since 2002 and appreciate your loyalty as an AAdvantage member. We look forward to your giving us another chance to serve you.

Sincerely,

Josh Seamon
Customer Relations
American Airlines
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yelped on May 24, 2018, 09:10:17 PM
Lol.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on May 26, 2018, 11:28:47 PM
Received today:
write back and tell them you at min want a voucher
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yesitsme on May 27, 2018, 08:31:20 AM
That was a punishment for flying Y to HKG. As a DDFER we expect better 😀

Joke aside. I agree with you 100%. We have organizations for everything. Why isn't there an organization that caters an abundance of food for the hungry Jews? Or at least charge airlines cost price.
Rebshayalyinthesky.org

Maybe we should have a kosher airline food expo, invite airlines and those that are on a strict kosher diet, every caterer should have their best/expensive menu and worst cheapest menu, those that can't differentiate between best and worst should have a separate section.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: BarryLincoln on July 24, 2018, 01:21:31 PM
https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/?utm_source=informz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter (https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/?utm_source=informz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on July 24, 2018, 01:24:41 PM
https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/?utm_source=informz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter (https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/?utm_source=informz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter)
Perri Spiegel, General Manager of Stogel Kosher Catering, based in Antwerp, explains:

“We offer two kinds of menus:  frozen, which is served on Delta, United, Brussels, Jet, out of Europe, just to name a few of our customers.  We receive great letters and reviews about these meals. They are tasty, and very presentable.  As a matter of fact, they are much better than the meals served out of the States.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Something Fishy on July 24, 2018, 01:27:08 PM
https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/?utm_source=informz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter (https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/?utm_source=informz&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter)

Wow. Pathetic excuse for an "article".
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on July 25, 2018, 11:13:25 PM
Received today:

Did you complain about the rude service as well?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on July 25, 2018, 11:13:58 PM
Wow. Pathetic excuse for an "article".

I have a feeling its all sponsored content.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on July 29, 2018, 08:05:44 AM
https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Mount Scopus on July 29, 2018, 08:17:54 AM
https://www.koshertoday.com/rising-complaints-over-quality-of-airline-kosher-meals/

Stogel should be embarrassed of themselves. "Ms. Spiegel told Kosher Today that the company was taking many steps to upgrade the meals and the presentation despite the disadvantages the company faces from limitations imposed by airlines." - I'll believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: @Yehuda on August 28, 2018, 01:21:52 PM
What about an Instagram account where people submit the gross meals they're served and they get posted with tagging the airlines?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on August 28, 2018, 01:24:14 PM
What about an Instagram account where people submit the gross meals they're served and they get posted with tagging the airlines?
#AirlineShaming
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Mount Scopus on August 28, 2018, 02:20:26 PM
What about an Instagram account where people submit the gross meals they're served and they get posted with tagging the airlines?

What a great idea! I just set up an instagram account https://www.instagram.com/kosher_airplane_food/ - Email your pics to meals@kosherairplanefood.com with details of the meal
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on August 28, 2018, 02:24:58 PM
What a great idea! I just set up an instagram account https://www.instagram.com/kosherairplanefood/ - Email your pics to meals@kosherairplanefood.com with details of the meal

Easier to just DM the picture and details to the account.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Mount Scopus on August 28, 2018, 02:27:21 PM
Easier to just DM the picture and details to the account.

Yes, that can be done as well!
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: grodnoking on August 28, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
How much do the airlines pay for a serving of food?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on August 28, 2018, 04:43:50 PM
How much do the airlines pay for a serving of food?

Every airline sets their own budget for it.

Here is LY’s - https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=24510.msg1947215#msg1947215
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: grodnoking on August 28, 2018, 05:04:57 PM
Every airline sets their own budget for it.

Here is LY’s - https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=24510.msg1947215#msg1947215
Ouch, no wonder it's garbage!
Maybe we can get them to make an upgraded meal, that you can pay a fee for...
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on August 28, 2018, 05:08:10 PM
Maybe we can get them to make an upgraded meal, that you can pay a fee for...

It already exists, it’s called BYOK meal.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: grodnoking on August 28, 2018, 05:25:05 PM
It already exists, it’s called BYOK meal.
Don't really have patience to make food, wrap it up so it doesn't spill all over my noise cancelling headphones, and balance my personal item properly so I don't get a mixed food salad upon opening it.
(Or buy the food and step 2 and 3 are still problems)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: jose34 on August 28, 2018, 07:20:20 PM
Maybe I got lucky by getting a Premium Economy meal but   when flying SEA - FRA LH 491 I got a really good Regal Kosher Meal. 
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Yaalili on August 28, 2018, 07:24:36 PM
Maybe I got lucky by getting a Premium Economy meal but   when flying SEA - FRA LH 491 I got a really good Regal Kosher Meal. 

Not bad.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on August 28, 2018, 08:22:17 PM
Maybe LH pays more?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Mount Scopus on August 28, 2018, 08:24:28 PM
Maybe I got lucky by getting a Premium Economy meal but   when flying SEA - FRA LH 491 I got a really good Regal Kosher Meal.

When did you take this flight? I hope not recently as the meal is out of date by almost 5 months...
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: theyankel on August 28, 2018, 11:25:44 PM
When did you take this flight? I hope not recently as the meal is out of date by almost 5 months...
not even 3 but still a problem
europeans put the month in middle so that would be june
you should complain about that too
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: oldguy on August 28, 2018, 11:59:06 PM
not even 3 but still a problem
europeans put the month in middle so that would be june
you should complain about that too
Regal is a US Based company, So they probably use the US Format DD/MM/YYYY
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on August 29, 2018, 12:02:24 AM
Regal is a US Based company, So they probably use the US Format MM/DD/YYYY
FTFY
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: SkinnnyJ on August 29, 2018, 02:36:46 AM
I also recently flew LH (PHL-FRA) and the whole family got premium economy kosher meals even though we were in economy. Maybe they are getting rid of them before they expire?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: jose34 on August 29, 2018, 08:10:39 AM
When did you take this flight? I hope not recently as the meal is out of date by almost 5 months...

One of the reasons I actually took the a picture of packaging is to send it in to Lufthansa to complain about the date.
Even so the meals was served on china with real silverware and the meat and green beans were moist and really good, one of the better meals I've had on an airplane.


Interestingly on when I flew to the US on FRA - PHL I got a regular meal, its probably just leaving the US  since the meals are always from where you come from.

I know kosher is different but in the secular world, isnt Lufthansa known for there for food, maybe they decided to be nice kosher eating passengers as well. :P ;D   
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Thingywingy on September 02, 2018, 10:15:47 PM
Anyone know who provides the meals on Delta from Sydney to LAX? What’s the hechsher?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: nafnaf12 on November 06, 2018, 03:02:39 PM
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/11/06/united-tells-employees-theyre-cutting-service-levels-in-business-class-you-thought-it-couldnt-get-worse/#_ga=2.235125249.1278078423.1541380911-91626782.1533487106


We may not be getting better meals but at least it won't hurt as much when the non kosher meals come out  :)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on November 06, 2018, 03:16:50 PM
Why can't LY make better mehadrin meals?
The ones made in NY are under the OK. Why can't they just seal those and serve that as the SKML?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: oldguy on November 06, 2018, 11:21:18 PM
Why can't LY make better mehadrin meals?
The ones made in NY are under the OK. Why can't they just seal those and serve that as the SKML?
a big percentage of the customers that want the SKML won't be happy with the OK.....
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yesitsme on November 07, 2018, 03:34:34 PM
Why can't LY make better mehadrin meals?
The ones made in NY are under the OK. Why can't they just seal those and serve that as the SKML?
I would advise you to post here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=94404.0) might be more effective
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on November 07, 2018, 03:38:24 PM
I would advise you to post here (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=94404.0) might be more effective
I'm 0/2.
Someone PMd me asking if I wanted to talk to another LY rep who wants to be interviewed
Nope!
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on November 07, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
I'm 0/2.
Someone PMd me asking if I wanted to talk to another LY rep who wants to be interviewed
Nope!
Tell them you'll only do it live!
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Dan on November 07, 2018, 03:41:07 PM
Tell them you'll only do it live!
They won't do it.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: @Yehuda on November 07, 2018, 03:57:43 PM
a big percentage of the customers that want the SKML won't be happy with the OK.....
Seriously?? Oy another one bites the dust. Growing up thinking the OU was the #1 accepted hashgacha in the US, then finding out reality as an adult. Now you're telling me the OK is not almost-nationally accepted?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yesitsme on November 07, 2018, 04:50:37 PM
Seriously?? Oy another one bites the dust. Growing up thinking the OU was the #1 accepted hashgacha in the US, then finding out reality as an adult. Now you're telling me the OK is not almost-nationally accepted?
Volovo + ou combo works for all (Not sure about anti vaxxers)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: moko on November 07, 2018, 04:51:31 PM
Seriously?? Oy another one bites the dust. Growing up thinking the OU was the #1 accepted hashgacha in the US, then finding out reality as an adult. Now you're telling me the OK is not almost-nationally accepted?
you have a lot to learn.....
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: @Yehuda on November 07, 2018, 05:33:21 PM
you have a lot to learn.....
You need to move out of BK/MS/LK. :)
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: moko on November 07, 2018, 05:34:52 PM
You need to move out of BK/MS/LK. :)
I don't live in any of those places....I work for a kashrus orginization
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: oldguy on November 07, 2018, 10:33:50 PM
Volovo + ou combo works for all (Not sure about anti vaxxers)
Correct, But Dans points was that they should use the same food given as the Reg meal that's OK.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: 159dallas on November 08, 2018, 09:50:36 PM
Just saying I know someone that does Airline meals for business and says that it's the airline's fault they constantly threaten to switch companies if they will not lower their prices for the meals so they have to make them dirt cheap and they are garbage
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: shapsam on November 08, 2018, 11:12:31 PM
Just saying I know someone that does Airline meals for business and says that it's the airline's fault they constantly threaten to switch companies if they will not lower their prices for the meals so they have to make them dirt cheap and they are garbage
If they would all (there aren't even so many) not give into those threats there wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on November 08, 2018, 11:32:10 PM
I'm 0/2.
Someone PMd me asking if I wanted to talk to another LY rep who wants to be interviewed
Nope!

Make a very public post about how elal refuses to do interviews live or fully on the record. I know you mentioned it in your highly censured interview but maybe getting called out on it will change their mind.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: mrprez27 on November 08, 2018, 11:33:09 PM
Maybe I got lucky by getting a Premium Economy meal but   when flying SEA - FRA LH 491 I got a really good Regal Kosher Meal.

Ya LH has some delish meals for J with LH branded real cutlery...I dont get how their regals meals are better then other regal J meals.

Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: Tzadik Nistar on March 29, 2019, 08:27:13 AM
Someone started a petition about KSML
Don't think it will help much.
https://www.change.org/p/ivelt-kosher-airline-food-need-desperately-change?recruiter=945679101&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=tap_basic_share
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on March 29, 2019, 09:40:25 AM
Someone started a petition about KSML
Don't think it will help much.
https://www.change.org/p/ivelt-kosher-airline-food-need-desperately-change?recruiter=945679101&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=tap_basic_share
Change.org is like complaining online. It feels good but has no real effect.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on March 29, 2019, 10:51:03 AM
Change.org is like complaining online. It feels good but has no real effect.

Does this ring a bell?
https://www.change.org/p/bimbo-bakeries-usa-keep-your-kosher-certification-bimbo-bakeries-think-entenmann-s-arnold-thomas-etc?lang=en-US
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on March 29, 2019, 11:26:35 AM
Change.org is like complaining online. It feels good but has no real effect.

There are exceptions to that. Complaining by using an organization or agency whose job is consumer advocacy does have a chance of getting results. Major corporations that will just ignore you, will start escalating and trying to please you, if/when you get the BBB involved (or regulators).
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: aygart on March 29, 2019, 02:10:18 PM
Does this ring a bell?
https://www.change.org/p/bimbo-bakeries-usa-keep-your-kosher-certification-bimbo-bakeries-think-entenmann-s-arnold-thomas-etc?lang=en-US
How many people signed that and what is the source that they even knew the change.org petition even existed?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: yuneeq on March 29, 2019, 06:19:36 PM
How many people signed that and what is the source that they even knew the change.org petition even existed?

Does it matter?
They reversed their decision due to people “wasting their time” complaining about it online.
The onus is on you to prove that it has no effect when reality shows otherwise.

Change.org is like complaining online. It feels good but has no real effect.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: neveryou on July 02, 2019, 11:21:39 AM
https://m.jpost.com/OMG/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-to-offer-kosher-food-for-no-extra-fee-on-all-ships-594371/amp

Does this mean that the food will be garbage and not worth it?
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ExGingi on July 02, 2019, 11:32:16 AM
https://m.jpost.com/OMG/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-to-offer-kosher-food-for-no-extra-fee-on-all-ships-594371/amp

Does this mean that the food will be garbage and not worth it?

Quote
The meals will be under the strict supervision of the Orthodox Union and catered by Borenstein Caterers.

...

Those who opt for a kosher meal will be able to choose from a variety of options including meat, chicken, fish, etc. The meal will also come packaged with sealed dishes. Each meal will consist of a first course, main course, two additional side dishes and dessert.

Though

Quote
Furthermore, if there is a group of over 60 people, fresh kosher food will be cooked on board in a kosher kitchen.
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: ~King Lake~ on July 02, 2019, 12:53:26 PM
https://m.jpost.com/OMG/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-to-offer-kosher-food-for-no-extra-fee-on-all-ships-594371/amp

Does this mean that the food will be garbage and not worth it?
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=104797.0
Title: Re: Kosher Meals - Can we do better?
Post by: El Capitan on October 27, 2019, 07:29:55 PM
Talking about KSML,  An interesting point.
When I flew once from TLV,  the ksml from hamasbia had just a plain yogurt/leben. I noticed my neighbor had the regular meal and the yogurt was a flavored, with a heimish hechsher,   later after they finished serving I asked the FA if they have more from it and they gladly gave it to me.
Talk about discrimination against the frum community...
Why can't the kosher providers give something tasty?
Same happened to me on us airways in 2014