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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: travelplus on July 13, 2018, 02:28:38 AM

Title: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: travelplus on July 13, 2018, 02:28:38 AM
I understand that a lot of people here on the forum are more observant than me and I can appreciate it.  I come from a Sephardic background and as Shabbat travel is Rabinical my upbringing has been not to ask a Rabbi but to do what I feel brngs me joy and being a proud Jew and know our traditions.

I decide to travel on Shabbat even to and from Israel for the following reasons:

1 The car service is operated and driven by a non Jew and we are saving our carbon imprint by not driving.

2. The car service has been prepaid and the app is hosted on a web server and to tip and rate the driver gives him Parnasa.


3. San Jose CA airport is owned by the city as is LAX and SFO the workers for the most part are not Jewish.

4. Alaska and United have non Jewish piolots and staff flying and working on the plane.

5. My ticket was prepaid and checkin for both flights were done before Shabbat.

6. Kosher snacks and beverages are served.

7. The lounges are operated by non Jews and have Kosher food items and drinke.

8. The flight to TLV flies at 9:40 PM going just after Shabbat. On the return its on Shabbat.

9. Ben Gurion Airport employs non Jews on Shabbat.

10. I will say Shabbat Prayers on Friday night in both CA and Israel.

11. I am traveling to Israel and in my tradition that is a major Mitzvah and in my personal Jewish following adds to the enjoyment  of Shabat.

12. I requested the Kosher meal and its heated by a non Jew flight attendant.

13. My tradition allows me to clear customs and leave the airport for any flight delay and ride in a car home under Pikuah Nefesh as Shabbat at home is safer and a hot meal is better with family.

Anyone else here folow my approach? I look forward y
to a productive discussion  . I am proud to be Jewish and love our traditions  I celebrate the  major holidays and family simchas
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: davidrotts63 on July 13, 2018, 02:49:10 AM
open a new account and try again
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: yandmk on July 13, 2018, 02:57:37 AM


Anyone else here folow my approach? I look forward y
to a productive discussion

First of all, this discussion very obviously belongs in JS.
As for your argument, I'm assuming you know this won't turn into a very productive discussion.
Nobody is here to judge you, or to tell you how religious you should be (because I'm sure it won't make much of a difference anyway). But as far as all the arguments you mentioned, I'm sure you're aware (at least I hope) that it's all nonsense. Thanks for explaining to G-D why it's really ok to fly on Saturday. Now he knows. C'mon...
Again, if you want to fly Shabbos, that's your decision. But not even one of the above reasons is any justification for doing so.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: davidrotts63 on July 13, 2018, 03:25:51 AM
I am  not religious but order the KSML for its safety and its better quality over the regular meals. .
do you order KSMLs on shabbat?
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: Jellybelly on July 13, 2018, 06:45:03 AM
Iíll go out in a limb here and guess that this is @Definitions
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: churnbabychurn on July 13, 2018, 06:55:55 AM
The punnishment is flogging for each rabbinic infraction. - at minimum.

Suit yourself.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ExGingi on July 13, 2018, 07:16:54 AM
Iíll go out in a limb here and guess that this is @Definitions
-1
Not the style.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: moish on July 13, 2018, 07:20:57 AM
You say you follow tradition, but I have yet to see a KSML with chulent
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: jordan21 on July 13, 2018, 07:49:53 AM
Cute post
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: shapsam on July 13, 2018, 07:51:29 AM

First of all, this discussion very obviously belongs in JS.
As for your argument, I'm assuming you know this won't turn into a very productive discussion.
Nobody is here to judge you, or to tell you how religious you should be (because I'm sure it won't make much of a difference anyway). But as far as all the arguments you mentioned, I'm sure you're aware (at least I hope) that it's all nonsense. Thanks for explaining to G-D why it's really ok to fly on Saturday. Now he knows. C'mon...
Again, if you want to fly Shabbos, that's your decision. But not even one of the above reasons is any justification for doing so.
+1
Some of those reasons make it even worse.
You are wrong about non Jewish workers in TLV, so even according to your "standards" it's not ok.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: gingyguy on July 13, 2018, 08:28:29 AM

1 The car service is operated and driven by a non Jew and we are saving our carbon imprint by not driving.

2. The car service has been prepaid and the app is hosted on a web server and to tip and rate the driver gives him Parnasa.


11. I am traveling to Israel and in my tradition that is a major Mitzvah and in my personal Jewish following adds to the enjoyment  of Shabat.



13. My tradition allows me to clear customs and leave the airport for any flight delay and ride in a car home under Pikuah Nefesh as Shabbat at home is safer and a hot meal is better with family.

to a productive discussion  . I am proud to be Jewish and love our traditions[/b]  I celebrate the  major holidays and family simchas
the first reason is by far the best reason to not keep shabbos . i mean whats the point of keeping shabbos if youre leaving a carbon foot print(as a side point staying home  and not traveling leaves even less of a carbon foot print)
i also love the fact that youre helping an uber drivers parnassa.. u should go into a mcdonalds dor the same reason to give the server a tip!
it may also add to your shabbos enjoyment which seems to be pretty important to you as well.
and finally when you say that traditions are important to you do you mean the ones that come from moshe on har sinai , or the ones that were started by the people that were intentionally being nontraditional?
Im proud that youre jewish too!
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: mileagejunkie on July 13, 2018, 08:29:40 AM
I understand that a lot of people here on the forum are more observant than me and I can appreciate it.  I come from a Sephardic background and as Shabbat travel is Rabinical my upbringing has been not to ask a Rabbi but to do what I feel brngs me joy and being a proud Jew and know our traditions.

I decide to travel on Shabbat even to and from Israel for the following reasons:

1 The car service is operated and driven by a non Jew and we are saving our carbon imprint by not driving.

2. The car service has been prepaid and the app is hosted on a web server and to tip and rate the driver gives him Parnasa.


3. San Jose CA airport is owned by the city as is LAX and SFO the workers for the most part are not Jewish.

4. Alaska and United have non Jewish piolots and staff flying and working on the plane.

5. My ticket was prepaid and checkin for both flights were done before Shabbat.

6. Kosher snacks and beverages are served.

7. The lounges are operated by non Jews and have Kosher food items and drinke.

8. The flight to TLV flies at 9:40 PM going just after Shabbat. On the return its on Shabbat.

9. Ben Gurion Airport employs non Jews on Shabbat.

10. I will say Shabbat Prayers on Friday night in both CA and Israel.

11. I am traveling to Israel and in my tradition that is a major Mitzvah and in my personal Jewish following adds to the enjoyment  of Shabat.

12. I requested the Kosher meal and its heated by a non Jew flight attendant.

13. My tradition allows me to clear customs and leave the airport for any flight delay and ride in a car home under Pikuah Nefesh as Shabbat at home is safer and a hot meal is better with family.

Anyone else here folow my approach? I look forward y
to a productive discussion  . I am proud to be Jewish and love our traditions  I celebrate the  major holidays and family simchas
Let’s hope that you’re a troll, but if you’re not:
I could reply to each reason and tell you why you are wrong but we both know this would be a waste of time. I’ll just tell you that having grown up as the only religious family in a community (abt 70% sefaradi, 30% ashkenaz) taught me one thing. It is that it’s “okay” to not be observant  as long as you recognize that there are laws and that you are just not interested in them or it is too hard for you to follow them. The moment that you start justifying your actions and saying that you’re doing it the right way is when everything starts going downhill. So while you may be very proud being Jewish, the odds of your children marrying Jewish are small, and the odds of all your grandchildren being Jewish are non-existent considering your view on religion. I’ve seen people with your reasoning again and again and I can show you the results, there are even Muslims in some of the families now.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 09:02:43 AM
Anyone else here folow my approach? I look forward y
to a productive discussion  . I am proud to be Jewish and love our traditions  I celebrate the  major holidays and family simchas
No matter what your religion is there is always different observant levels. The holier than thou types are going to mock you six ways to Sunday. Stick to yours guns as these individuals don't matter!!!
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: jj1000 on July 13, 2018, 09:18:25 AM
1 The car service is operated and driven by a non Jew and we are saving our carbon imprint by not driving.
Reminds me of the Rabbi in chelm that didn't want to walk on the snow, so he had 2 people carry him.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: shwarmabob on July 13, 2018, 09:33:12 AM
I am proud to be Jewish and love our traditions  I celebrate the  major holidays and family simchas
If you are proud to be Jewish and love our traditions, then try to keep Shabbos and major/minor holidays according to halacha. Many people went down on the road you are, came to a crossroad and if they took the turn that you are justifying their children and/or grandchildren became non-Jewish. You will not be able to transmit your Jewish pride and love without learning and practicing Jewish tradition as it was practiced for thousands of years by your ancestors.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: justaregularguy on July 13, 2018, 09:46:13 AM
No matter what your religion is there is always different observant levels. The holier than thou types are going to mock you six ways to Sunday. Stick to yours guns as these individuals don't matter!!!
I believe @ChaimMoskowitz  wasnít necessarily approving of your level of Shabbat obvservance donít be confused there..you wonít find him on a flight with you on Shabbat anytime soon.
Also I like how he considered Shabbat observers as Ďholier than thouí.. itís more like Ďmore religious than thouí.
But yes there are always different observant levels .
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: davidrotts63 on July 13, 2018, 09:53:58 AM
No matter what your religion is there is always different observant levels. The holier than thou types are going to mock you six ways to Sunday. Stick to yours guns as these individuals don't matter!!!
-1
This isn't Christianity.
As @mileagejunkie said, you can go do what you want, but don't call that the proper Jewish way. Don't do the wrong thing and tell yourself it's right. Comparable to legal laws, the biggest crooks are always the ones who start off with small thing and brush them off as OK for whatever reason they decide.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 09:56:04 AM
I believe @ChaimMoskowitz  wasnít necessarily approving of your level of Shabbat obvservance donít be confused there..you wonít find him on a flight with you on Shabbat anytime soon.
Also I like how he considered Shabbat observers as Ďholier than thouí.. itís more like Ďmore religious than thouí.
But yes there are always different observant levels .
I wasn't approving of anything. Is their anyone here that follows their religion 100%? Maybe spend your time on that instead on others observance.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 09:57:28 AM
-1
This isn't Christianity.
As @mileagejunkie said, you can go do what you want, but don't call that the proper Jewish way. Don't do the wrong thing and tell yourself it's right. Comparable to legal laws, the biggest crooks are always the ones who start off with small thing and brush them off as OK for whatever reason they decide.
I guess this is one of those conservative "tolerant" views?
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: Ygold on July 13, 2018, 10:06:46 AM
I believe @ChaimMoskowitz  wasnít necessarily approving of your level of Shabbat obvservance donít be confused there..you wonít find him on a flight with you on Shabbat anytime soon.
Also I like how he considered Shabbat observers as Ďholier than thouí.. itís more like Ďmore religious than thouí.
But yes there are always different observant levels .

ChaimMoskowitz is actually non Jewish and is catholic, so I don't think think he'll have a problem with flying on Shabbos.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: shapsam on July 13, 2018, 10:12:42 AM
ChaimMoskowitz is actually non Jewish and is catholic, so I don't think think he'll have a problem with flying on Shabbos.
Good to point it out just in case OP finds his thread...
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: AJK on July 13, 2018, 10:14:13 AM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/tyqcJoNjNv0Fq/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: mileagejunkie on July 13, 2018, 10:18:55 AM
I guess this is one of those conservative "tolerant" views?
Of course it's tolerant, my family dedicated their lives for people who weren't religious, and I mean intermarriage, cellphones ringing on yom kippur etc. But you can't deny the law. The comparison with legal law is on point.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: stooges44 on July 13, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/tyqcJoNjNv0Fq/giphy.gif)

Ditto.

But thumbs up for coming clean like this.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 10:32:57 AM
Of course it's tolerant, my family dedicated their lives for people who weren't religious, and I mean intermarriage, cellphones ringing on yom kippur etc. But you can't deny the law. The comparison with legal law is on point.
I love how everyone is ignoring the main part I take issue with.
-1
This isn't Christianity.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: yitzgar on July 13, 2018, 10:33:48 AM
I wasn't approving of anything. Is their anyone here that follows their religion 100%? Maybe spend your time on that instead on others observance.
The op deliberately started this discussion. It's not like people came along and started criticizing his level of observance for no reason
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 10:36:42 AM
The op deliberately started this discussion. It's not like people came along and started criticizing his level of observance for no reason
True but wouldn't a response like this one be more productive?
If you are proud to be Jewish and love our traditions, then try to keep Shabbos and major/minor holidays according to halacha. Many people went down on the road you are, came to a crossroad and if they took the turn that you are justifying their children and/or grandchildren became non-Jewish. You will not be able to transmit your Jewish pride and love without learning and practicing Jewish tradition as it was practiced for thousands of years by your ancestors.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: yitzgar on July 13, 2018, 10:39:24 AM
True but wouldn't a response like this one be more productive?
More productive if the point of this thread was to achieve positive results
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: gingyguy on July 13, 2018, 10:39:34 AM
True but wouldn't a response like this one be more productive?
i would imagine that no matter the response it wouldnt have been productive.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 10:40:58 AM
i would imagine that no matter the response it wouldnt have been productive.
If that is the case then no response would be better unless you are celebrating PC Friday.  :)
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: justaregularguy on July 13, 2018, 10:42:45 AM
True but wouldn't a response like this one be more productive?
Yes thatís a better response than telling him to stick to his guns which to me means no need to explore and possibly change for the good🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 10:43:35 AM
When you read the OP this might help understand: ...I reside in the Silicon Valley.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 10:46:30 AM
Yes thatís a better response than telling him to stick to his guns which to me means no need to explore and possibly change for the good🤷‍♂️
Better to be somewhat observant than not at all. We all know the onslaught that was coming.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: Yikes2179 on July 13, 2018, 10:51:27 AM
Better to be somewhat observant than not at all. We all know the onslaught that was coming.
That's true - as long as you don't think you're doing everything ok
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: mileagejunkie on July 13, 2018, 11:00:19 AM
I love how everyone is ignoring the main part I take issue with.
Glad to know that you weren't taking issue with anything I said, because my main point was
It is that itís ďokayĒ to not be observant  as long as you recognize that there are laws and that you are just not interested in them or it is too hard for you to follow them. The moment that you start justifying your actions and saying that youíre doing it the right way is when everything starts going downhill.
I don't think OP deserves any sugar coating after he discredited observant people by justifying that his actions don't go against the law (but he said he can appreciate them lol). I like how he says that his sefaradic background is the reason for not asking a Rabbi (says it more clearly in another post).  :o I also have yet to find any relation between Rabbinical laws and asking a Rabbi... The best part is when he says that he's proud to be Jewish and respect the traditions but yet only recognizes Oral law.

Anyways, rumor has it that this thread was started to find a shaliach for Malť. @davidrotts63, doesn't look like we're getting the job  ;D
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: gingyguy on July 13, 2018, 11:04:14 AM
If that is the case then no response would be better unless you are celebrating PC Friday.  :)
wlcome to DDF where every day is #PCFriday
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: davidrotts63 on July 13, 2018, 11:04:37 AM


Anyways, rumor has it that this thread was started to find a shaliach for Malť. @davidrotts63, doesn't look like we're getting the job  ;D
I guess bye then. :(
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on July 13, 2018, 11:06:08 AM
wlcome to DDF where every day is #PCFriday
That is an insult to PC Friday.  >:(
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: gingyguy on July 13, 2018, 11:07:00 AM
That is an insult to PC Friday.  >:(
nothing personal
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: Definitions on July 13, 2018, 11:53:34 AM
Iíll go out in a limb here and guess that this is @Definitions
Nope.
according to me it's deoraysa from אל־יצא איש ממקמו.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: ExGingi on July 13, 2018, 01:23:52 PM
Nope.
according to me it's deoraysa from אל־יצא איש ממקמו.
תחומין למעלה מעשרה טפחים?
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: cmey on July 13, 2018, 02:22:29 PM
Iím gonna pass on this one. Some people are asking and some are interested only in telling. The latter are a waste of time.....
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: yitzgar on July 13, 2018, 02:32:02 PM
Iím gonna pass on this one. Some people are asking and some are interested only in telling. The latter are a waste of time.....
I don't think anyone is asking
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: yesitsme on July 13, 2018, 02:32:14 PM
I don't get why there's So much negative responses here after all all parties involved are non Jews, there one guy that we can rely on butul beshishim and it's not even a duvur sheyesh lo matirim, and since there's no Heker makes it even easier to be mevutal legamri, besides the point in air is a reshus binary atzmo.

#just adding more am haratzus.
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: koplonko on July 13, 2018, 04:55:40 PM
You say you follow tradition, but I have yet to see a KSML with chulent
he's sefardi, remember? no cholent, he would eat chamin but doesn't want to leave carbon monoxide
Title: Re: Why I travel on Shabbat
Post by: mordechain on July 13, 2018, 05:15:56 PM
he's sefardi, remember? no cholent, he would eat chamin but doesn't want to leave carbon monoxide
You mean methane...