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DansDeals Forum => Just Shmooze => Topic started by: Meno on November 14, 2018, 08:20:02 AM

Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Meno on November 14, 2018, 08:20:02 AM
This new Amazon headquarters in LIC, is it good or bad?

They're saying 25,000 new jobs, average salary $150K.

That new socialist politician is saying it's terrible, so I tend to think it's actually a good thing, but I just wanted to get people's thoughts.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2018, 08:42:31 AM
The only downside is for renters as rents in the LIC area will go up.
The tax money earned will dwarf the incentives.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Menachem613 on November 14, 2018, 08:56:57 AM
Will the jobs be merely workers leaving other employers to work for Amazon?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: jj1000 on November 14, 2018, 08:58:23 AM
Will the jobs be merely workers leaving other employers to work for Amazon?
And then those employers hire other employees...
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ChaimMoskowitz on November 14, 2018, 09:22:55 AM
And then those employers hire other employees...
...if those employers are still in business.  :)
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
Definitely a good turn of events for the Brooklyn real estate market — on which a sizable percent of the Brooklyn OJ community rely on — which started to turn sour over the last few months, this will at the minimum erase the slow down and stabilize the rental market
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: bb1836 on November 14, 2018, 10:48:16 AM
...and think of all those ppl being added to an already crumbling infrastructure, how much more traffic it will add...pros and cons I guess...
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yehuda57 on November 14, 2018, 11:11:31 AM
Definitely a good turn of events for the Brooklyn real estate market — on which a sizable percent of the Brooklyn OJ community rely on — which started to turn sour over the last few months, this will at the minimum erase the slow down and stabilize the rental market
A far, far greater number of the Brooklyn OJ community stand to be screwed. But sure, celebrate the fact that a newlywed couple will struggle to find a 1 bedroom apt for less than 2,000 a month.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2018, 11:12:38 AM
Are people working for Amazon in LIC really going to live in Brooklyn?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 14, 2018, 11:15:09 AM
Are people working for Amazon in LIC really going to live in Brooklyn?
1. Yes.
2. Ripple effect?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 14, 2018, 11:20:12 AM
1. Yes.
On second thought maybe I answered too quickly.

That probably depends to a large degree on how easy it is to commute to LIC. But without that factor there are certainly neighborhoods in brooklyn that'll be very appealing to them.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: hide4 on November 14, 2018, 11:33:36 AM
This new Amazon headquarters in LIC, is it good or bad?

They're saying 25,000 new jobs, average salary $150K.

Definitely a good turn of events for the Brooklyn real estate market

...and think of all those ppl being added to an already crumbling infrastructure, how much more traffic it will add...

With a population of over 8.5 million people, how is 25,000 jobs going to affect NYC?!
It's all hype imho.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yehuda57 on November 14, 2018, 11:36:47 AM
This new Amazon headquarters in LIC, is it good or bad?

They're saying 25,000 new jobs, average salary $150K.

That new socialist politician is saying it's terrible, so I tend to think it's actually a good thing, but I just wanted to get people's thoughts.
Did you read what the socialist politician said? Can you argue with her point by point on merit?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 14, 2018, 11:38:37 AM
With a population of over 8.5 million people, how is 25,000 jobs going to affect NYC?!
It's all hype imho.
https://nypost.com/2018/11/13/the-amazon-deal-is-no-win-for-new-yorkers/
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Meno on November 14, 2018, 12:03:41 PM
Did you read what the socialist politician said? Can you argue with her point by point on merit?

I skimmed through it, and no, but I disagree with most of the stuff she says.

Based on what I've read, she doesn't have any clear points.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 14, 2018, 12:37:16 PM


The tax money earned will dwarf the incentives.
This is highly debateable, but perhaps more importantly, extremely difficult to measure.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on November 14, 2018, 12:59:01 PM
I skimmed through it, and no, but I disagree with most of the stuff she says.

Based on what I've read, she doesn't have any clear points.
what do expect she's a dem :o
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Menachem613 on November 14, 2018, 12:59:25 PM
The only thing that is certain is the tax breaks. 
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 04:14:15 PM
Are people working for Amazon in LIC really going to live in Brooklyn?
Of course, a potential condo buyer is going to face two options, pay $1,300/square foot for the luxury of having a short 10 minute commute to work everyday, or pay $900/square foot and commute 40 minutes everyday, two markets, and enough people to fill both.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 04:26:36 PM
With a population of over 8.5 million people, how is 25,000 jobs going to affect NYC?!
It's all hype imho.
https://nypost.com/2018/11/13/the-amazon-deal-is-no-win-for-new-yorkers/
Highly discounts the fact that 25k jobs was the minimum for them to sign contract.. for certain tax breaks to kick in they’ll have to meet 40k jobs, also, every direct job generates on average 2.5 indirect jobs.. and besides, by amazon picking NYC (and Google announcing last week) it’ll inevitably attract more Silicon Valley type activity in the coming years.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: mercaz1 on November 14, 2018, 04:26:40 PM
easier to live in Queens and commute to LIC than Brooklyn
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 14, 2018, 04:59:18 PM
...every direct job generates on average 2.5 indirect jobs...
Source?
...and besides, by amazon picking NYC (and Google announcing last week) it’ll inevitably attract more Silicon Valley type activity in the coming years.
First of all, inevitably is way too strong a term. Google already had a strong presence, which they're expanding. How do you even begin to quantify what Amazon coming to NYC will add on top of that? And second of all, Google is the perfect foil to this whole Amazon discussion. Did NYC have to offer Google targeted incentives?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
Source?
Here’s one that’s at a 2.5 multiplier, I’ve seen a 4 multiplier report as well, I’ll look for it if you’re really curious, I think the average is 2.5...

https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&filename=0&article=1037&context=up_technicalreports&type=additional

First of all, inevitably is way too strong a term. Google already had a strong presence, which they're expanding. How do you even begin to quantify what Amazon coming to NYC will add on top of that?
Amazons #1 priority by far in this search was talent, they’ve said it multiple times, they had data on 239 American cities and chose NYC, Googles expansion last week wasn’t pulled out of a fortune cookie either, they saw talent as well, other tech companies will inevitably try to get a piece of that talent.

And second of all, Google is the perfect foil to this whole Amazon discussion. Did NYC have to offer Google targeted incentives?
No, and that makes Bezos a genius.. but he didn’t do it for incentives (other cities offered 3 times the incentives and didn’t get it) he did it for talent (and location).
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
Of course, a potential condo buyer is going to face two options, pay $1,300/square foot for the luxury of having a short 10 minute commute to work everyday, or pay $900/square foot and commute 40 minutes everyday, two markets, and enough people to fill both.
Amazon jobs aren't going to saturate Brooklyn. They can find places to live in Queens cheap and expensive that will be more convenient.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 14, 2018, 05:30:15 PM
No, and that makes Bezos a genius.. but he didn’t do it for incentives (other cities offered 3 times the incentives and didn’t get it) he did it for talent (and location).
More likely a weighted combination of the 3.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 05:35:09 PM
Amazon jobs aren't going to saturate Brooklyn. They can find places to live in Queens cheap and expensive that will be more convenient.
You aware that Brooklyn is a 2 minute drive (over a small bridge) from LIC?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 05:37:21 PM
More likely a weighted combination of the 3.
Agree. But not equally weighted.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 14, 2018, 05:38:35 PM
Here’s one that’s at a 2.5 multiplier, I’ve seen a 4 multiplier report as well, I’ll look for it if you’re really curious, I think the average is 2.5...

https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&filename=0&article=1037&context=up_technicalreports&type=additional
There's no actual data in that link that backs up the use of any multiplier.

Amazons #1 priority by far in this search was talent, they’ve said it multiple times, they had data on 239 American cities and chose NYC, Googles expansion last week wasn’t pulled out of a fortune cookie either, they saw talent as well, other tech companies will inevitably try to get a piece of that talent.
You realize you're making my point, right? You yourself are saying that the talent is here already, and these companies are moving here to tap into the pool. If other tech companies come as well, that would then be because of the talent, not because of Amazon.
No, and that makes Bezos a genius.. but he didn’t do it for incentives (other cities offered 3 times the incentives and didn’t get it) he did it for talent (and location).
The discussion is whether NY is making a good deal here or not. If you're saying Bezos/Amazon would've come here anyway, then NY is throwing away taxpayer dollars on this deal.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 14, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
No, and that makes Bezos a genius..
Either that or it just makes deBlasio an idiot...
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 14, 2018, 06:20:03 PM
Either that or it just makes deBlasio an idiot...
Cuomo, not deBlasio. The money they're supposedly getting from NYC is from existing programs.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 14, 2018, 06:21:45 PM
There's no actual data in that link that backs up the use of any multiplier.
That was a recap, here’s the full study:
https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1037&context=up_technicalreports
And here’s a 7 multiplier study..
https://www.geekwire.com/2015/study-for-every-tech-geek-hired-in-washington-state-another-7-jobs-are-added/
You realize you're making my point, right? You yourself are saying that the talent is here already, and these companies are moving here to tap into the pool. If other tech companies come as well, that would then be because of the talent, not because of Amazon.
Nope, that doesn’t make any sense, tech companies attract talent the same way talent attract tech companies, Silicon Valley didn’t start out with the talent pool they have today, it builds over time, the talent for NYC to become the next Silicon Valley is not “here already”, Amazon definitely pushed it a step closer.
The discussion is whether NY is making a good deal here or not. If you're saying Bezos/Amazon would've come here anyway, then NY is throwing away taxpayer dollars on this deal.
It’s not binary, Amazon and NYC made a good deal yesterday.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: justaregularguy on November 15, 2018, 12:27:56 AM
That new socialist politician is saying it's terrible, so I tend to think it's actually a good thing, but I just wanted to get people's thoughts.
tucker Carlson agrees with her on his show
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 15, 2018, 12:50:06 AM
tucker Carlson agrees with her on his show
There's a segment of the right that hates this kind of stuff (cut taxes instead of spending tax revenue on a specific company) and there's a segment of the left that hates it for other reasons (corporate greed, spend the revenue directly on social good, etc.).
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: justaregularguy on November 15, 2018, 12:53:45 AM
There's a segment of the right that hates this kind of stuff (cut taxes instead of spending tax revenue on a specific company) and there's a segment of the left that hates it for other reasons (corporate greed, spend the revenue directly on social good, etc.).
because heaven forbid should D’s and R’s agree about something for the same reason! ;)
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 01:56:54 AM
There's a segment of the right that hates this kind of stuff (cut taxes instead of spending tax revenue on a specific company)
Wait a minute now.. isn’t tax breaks/incentives a form of cutting taxes?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 15, 2018, 11:33:01 AM
Wait a minute now.. isn’t tax breaks/incentives a form of cutting taxes?
Not if the government is picking the winners and losers. There's also a question of what's more effective in promoting growth.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/study-american-capitalism/opportunity-cost-corporate-welfare
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 01:58:10 PM
Not if the government is picking the winners and losers. There's also a question of what's more effective in promoting growth.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/study-american-capitalism/opportunity-cost-corporate-welfare
Isn’t Amazon the one picking winners and losers here? And don’t they have the absolute right to do that? They auctioned off a proven successful product (i.e. Seattle, WA level of economic growth) to the highest value bidder, and NY won it.. how is that the “government picking winners and losers”?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 15, 2018, 02:05:35 PM
Isn’t Amazon the one picking winners and losers here? And don’t they have the absolute right to do that? They auctioned off a proven successful product (i.e. Seattle, WA level of economic growth) to the highest value bidder, and NY won it.. how is that the “government picking winners and losers”?
Your emoji use is quite puzzling.

Forget the term winners and losers. Is every business getting the same incentives/subsidies? If not, the government is picking and choosing. This is in contrast to something like cutting taxes across the board.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:06:41 PM
Isn’t Amazon the one picking winners and losers here? And don’t they have the absolute right to do that? They auctioned off a proven successful product (i.e. Seattle, WA level of economic growth) to the highest value bidder, and NY won it.. how is that the “government picking winners and losers”? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji57.png)
The point is that the government is giving benefits to select companies (i.e. effectively promoting some over others) hence "picking winners."

If tax breaks etc to businesses are good for the city they should be done across the board.  (tax cuts, not breaks for individuals.)
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 02:14:01 PM
Your emoji use is quite puzzling.

Forget the term winners and losers. Is every business getting the same incentives/subsidies? If not, the government is picking and choosing. This is in contrast to something like cutting taxes across the board.
The point is that the government is giving benefits to select companies (i.e. effectively promoting some over others) hence "picking winners."

If tax breaks etc to businesses are good for the city they should be done across the board.  (tax cuts, not breaks for individuals.)
Shouldn’t companies who provide greater value (I.e. billions in development investment/transforming a city, open tech incubators to lure in more tech activity, etc.) receive greater incentives/subsidies?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:20:35 PM
Shouldn’t companies who provide greater value (I.e. billions in development investment/transforming a city, open tech incubators to lure in more tech activity, etc.) receive greater incentives/subsidies?
does that answer
how is that the “government picking winners and losers”?
?

Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 15, 2018, 02:21:25 PM
If other companies think they can create a bidding war to get incentives then let them.
Why is this any different than an employee shopping around for the best deal?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: shapsam on November 15, 2018, 02:24:53 PM
If other companies think they can create a bidding war to get incentives then let them.
Why is this any different than an employee shopping around for the best deal?
Some would argue because Amazon is so rich, they don't deserve to get "the best deal"
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 02:25:14 PM
does that answer ?
When you pay 10% more for a bottle of milk that has 10% more milk vs a traditional bottle, did you pick/promote a winner?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 02:27:40 PM
Some would argue because Amazon is so rich, they don't deserve to get "the best deal"
When you pay 10% more for a bottle of milk that has 10% more milk vs a traditional bottle, you’d argue that the milk seller doesn’t deserve that 10% more as well?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 15, 2018, 02:27:49 PM
When you pay 10% more for a bottle of milk that has 10% more milk vs a traditional bottle, did you pick/promote a winner?
I don't want to waste too much more of anyone's time, so let me just ask this. Do you truly believe that your analogy is even remotely related to this discussion? Because if you do I can't imagine having a productive rational discussion with you on this topic.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 02:29:54 PM
I don't want to waste too much more of anyone's time, so let me just ask this. Do you truly believe that your analogy is even remotely related to this discussion? Because if you do I can't imagine having a productive rational discussion with you on this topic.
I have a feeling that what irks you is the fact that I’m comparing tax dollars to you using your own money, am I right?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:31:18 PM
When you pay 10% more for a bottle of milk that has 10% more milk vs a traditional bottle, did you pick/promote a winner?
If you take the extra 10% away from one dairy and give it to another to sell, then yes.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
If you take the extra 10% away from one dairy and give it to another to sell, then yes.
Not following
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:36:59 PM
If other companies think they can create a bidding war to get incentives then let them.
Why is this any different than an employee shopping around for the best deal?
So you're saying it shouldn't be an even playing field, the government should be "picking winners," deciding which companies to promote?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:39:08 PM
Not following
apparently neither am I, I think I misunderstood your analogy and now I have no idea what you were trying to say with it.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 15, 2018, 02:41:52 PM
Some would argue because Amazon is so rich, they don't deserve to get "the best deal"
So because Bryce Harper makes too much he doesn't deserve the best deal?
It's a free market.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:42:55 PM
It's a free market.
Not if the government is subsidizing some companies and not others.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 15, 2018, 02:43:07 PM
So you're saying it shouldn't be an even playing field, the government should be "picking winners," deciding which companies to promote?
They're not picking winners or deciding who to promote.
They're deciding if it's worth entering into a bidding war to land a boatload of high-paying jobs.
If your city decides that it's not worth bidding then don't bid and another city will get those jobs.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 15, 2018, 02:43:41 PM
Not if the government is subsidizing some companies and not others.
If your company is important enough that there are hundreds of cities bidding for you to come, then you too can get tax incentives.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 02:56:06 PM
Amazon is obviously a very extreme example, I'm talking about the general idea of giving breaks to specific companies while having high rates for other companies.
If tax breaks etc to businesses are good for the city they should be done across the board.  (tax cuts, not breaks for individuals.)

If your company is important enough that there are hundreds of cities bidding for you to come, then you too can get tax incentives.
So until "my" company gets big enough "I" should be paying higher taxes than "them?"

that seems to be putting me at a disadvantage. That sounds kinda like promoting one company over another, like picking winners.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on November 15, 2018, 02:57:57 PM
Amazon is obviously a very extreme example, I'm talking about the general idea of giving breaks to specific companies while having high rates for other companies.So until "my" company gets big enough "I" should be paying higher taxes than "them?"

that seems to be putting me at a disadvantage. That sounds kinda like promoting one company over another, like picking winners.
Nobody is making you stay in a place with high taxes...you're a free agent just like anyone else.

But yes, a company that does more for the local economy has more clout than the little guy. Always been that way and always will be. It's not about picking winners, it's about the company's impact.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on November 15, 2018, 03:15:09 PM
I think we're going around in circles :)

But yes, a company that does more for the local economy has more clout than the little guy. Always been that way and always will be. It's not about picking winners, it's about the company's impact.
But bottom line, at the end of the day, one company is getting boosted by the government and one isn't.


If tax breaks etc to businesses are good for the city they should be done across the board.  (tax cuts, not breaks for individuals.)
What's the cumulative impact to the local economy of all the little guys getting/not getting the breaks the big boys get?

Bottom line I'm saying it's not exactly free market when some companies are getting tax breaks but not others.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on November 15, 2018, 03:24:14 PM
What's the cumulative impact to the local economy of all the little guys getting/not getting the breaks the big boys get?
+1. This is what that link I posted earlier from Mercatus alludes to (Mercatus is essentially a free-market think tank). They argue that economic freedom correlates strongly with economic development (ie growth), and that targeted incentives detract from economic freedom.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on November 15, 2018, 03:25:16 PM
I think we're going around in circles :)
That's what Just Shmooze is all about

shouldnt Just Shmooze be spelled Just Schmooze?

Shmooze (https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT&authuser=0#en/iw/Shmooze)
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on November 15, 2018, 04:25:27 PM
I think we're going around in circles :)
Lemme just say this in the name of breaking up the circle, Dan is totally right here, you’re by definition not picking a winner, when the so called loser didn’t compete in the same league (I.e. transforming a city).

There you go, no more circle.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on February 14, 2019, 12:29:52 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Menachem613 on February 14, 2019, 12:38:21 PM
Lemme just say this in the name of breaking up the circle, Dan is totally right here, you’re by definition not picking a winner, when the so called loser didn’t compete in the same league (I.e. transforming a city).

There you go, no more circle.

But how do you know that Amazon would’ve transformed the city?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 01:04:12 PM
The only downside is for renters as rents in the LIC area will go up.
The tax money earned will dwarf the incentives.

The downside isn't only for renters. It's gentrification on steroids, and raises the local cost of living across the board.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 02:05:16 PM
But how do you know that Amazon would’ve transformed the city?
They transformed Seattle.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: mercaz1 on February 14, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
It is way to soon to see the impact this will have on the City.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on February 14, 2019, 02:40:58 PM
They transformed Seattle.
Seattle =/= NYC
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 02:43:13 PM
Seattle =/= NYC
Seattle = LIC
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 03:19:03 PM
Seattle = LIC
Seattle doesn't have Manhattan right across the bridge.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 03:22:15 PM
Seattle doesn't have Manhattan right across the bridge.
Point being?
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 03:22:22 PM
It’s a sad day for NYC but I kinda love it when leftie socialists shoot themself in the foot.
These politicians struggle to cover their $100 billion bloated budget and they rip up a deal with Amazon which required them to invest $3 billion (not even invest, just forgo that amount in taxes) for a return of $30 billion (in tax revenue alone!) over the next few years..
These politicians pushed the envelope and used Amazon as a straw man to highlight their kool-aid agenda, and Bezos pulled a ‘No Thank You, NYC’ on them. Good.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 03:25:55 PM
It’s a sad day for NYC but I kinda love it when leftie socialists shoot themself in the foot.

I don't consider this a sad day for NYC. As a NYC resident, I doubt I would benefit one bit from the tax revenue generated. They would just use it to advance their agenda.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 03:28:01 PM
As a NYC resident, I doubt I would benefit one bit from the tax revenue generated.
This is sad.
I live in a liberal suburb, but we certainly see many benefits of having a good business tax base.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 03:40:41 PM
I don't consider this a sad day for NYC. As a NYC resident, I doubt I would benefit one bit from the tax revenue generated. They would just use it to advance their agenda.
So why not just give them the $3 billion in incentive? How does $3 billion in incentives effect you, but $30 billion in revenue not.. that’s upside down.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on February 14, 2019, 03:41:00 PM

Amazon recognized the talents of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 03:44:06 PM
Point being?
It's not the same
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 03:46:46 PM
Reminds me of me walking away from a fight I had with my 4 year old nephew because I had more important things to do, and him being convinced that he won the fight..
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: stooges44 on February 14, 2019, 03:50:45 PM
Reminds me of me walking away from a fight I had with my 4 year old nephew because I had more important things to do, and he being convinced that he won the fight..

The "anything is possible" is that she was voted in. It's her own greediness that prompted this tweet.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: zale on February 14, 2019, 03:58:35 PM
Ocasio Cortez is literally a gift to Trump.

He had everything going against him until she showed up. Moderate Democrats have now surrendered to the far Left for fear of retribution.

Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
So why not just give them the $3 billion in incentive? How does $3 billion in incentives effect you, but $30 billion in revenue not.. that’s upside down.
The fact that NY needs to bribe amazon to come to NY is proof that NY is not very inviting for business in general. For every job that would be gained by amazon, there may very well be multiple jobs created if NY would offer the same incentives to all businesses (currently in NY or interested in moving to NY), it just doesn't come in one big swoop like amazon. It's a slap in the face to all businesses in NY to admit that it's too expensive to do business in NY, but since you don't help us brag that we brought jobs to the city we'll continue making life difficult for you but make it easy for the behemoth. If that's not called picking winners and losers I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 04:18:12 PM
The fact that NY needs to bribe amazon to come to NY is proof that NY is not very inviting for business in general. For every job that would be gained by amazon, there may very well be multiple jobs created if NY would offer the same incentives to all businesses (currently in NY or interested in moving to NY), it just doesn't come in one big swoop like amazon. It's a slap in the face to all businesses in NY to admit that it's too expensive to do business in NY, but since you don't help us brag that we brought jobs to the city we'll continue making life difficult for you but make it easy for the behemoth. If that's not called picking winners and losers I don't know what is.
It was discussed in length earlier in the thread, but in a nutshell, when your local deli or even a cut and dry low paying non-tech behemoth, say a car manufacturing plant, receives an incentive to hire employees it more or less ends there, it doesn’t necessarily lure in other car companies and it doesn’t create a ‘Deli hub’.. high paying tech jobs on the other hand by nature create hubs, improve living conditions, and transform cities.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on February 14, 2019, 04:20:50 PM
and the yidilach are migrating from NY to NJ ....
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 04:25:53 PM
It was discussed in length earlier in the thread, but in a nutshell, when your local deli or even a cut and dry low paying non-tech behemoth, say a car manufacturing plant, receives an incentive to hire employees it more or less ends there, it doesn’t necessarily lure in other car companies and it doesn’t create a ‘Deli hub’.. high paying tech jobs on the other hand by nature create hubs, improve living conditions, and transform cities.
Another way to get that result is to make it easier to do business. The same way NY is making it easier for Amazon to do business, if they extended that to everyone else you can get the same results or better without choosing winners and losers.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 04:31:52 PM
Another way to get that result is to make it easier to do business. The same way NY is making it easier for Amazon to do business, if they extended that to everyone else you can get the same results or better without choosing winners and losers.
Agree with you on overall changing a climate to ease the means of doing business, but, as discussed up thread, NYC didn’t pick Amazon here, Amazon picked NYC.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on February 14, 2019, 04:33:06 PM
Agree with you on overall changing a climate to ease the means of doing business, but, as discussed up thread, NYC didn’t pick here Amazon, Amazon picked NYC.
Many states picked Amazon, amazon used process of elimination to pick NYC
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 04:35:45 PM
Many states picked Amazon, amazon used process of elimination to pick NYC
How come these states didn’t fight over your local deli? Exactly my point
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 04:39:27 PM
How come these states didn’t fight over your local deli? Exactly my point
They actually do, by making a conducive business environment.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 04:42:35 PM
They actually do, by making a conducive business environment.
This argument is silliness. Yes, your state should have a competitive tax environment. But lowering rates to lure in a big fish isn't bad policy any more than offering a quantity discount on your product is bad policy. Bigger clients get bigger discounts, especially when they are openly shopping around.

Is that unfair to small business? Perhaps, but that small business isn't going to bring in tens of billions of dollars in tax revenue in one fell swoop.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 14, 2019, 04:45:49 PM
This argument is silliness. Yes, your state should have a competitive tax environment. But lowering rates to lure in a big fish isn't bad policy any more than offering a quantity discount on your product is bad policy. Bigger clients get bigger discounts, especially when they are openly shopping around.

Is that unfair to small business? Perhaps, but that small business isn't going to bring in tens of billions of dollars in tax revenue in one fell swoop.
+1

This is similar to a mall giving a big discount to anchor stores to boost the rest of the property. NYC has been lagging in tech for quite some time and this was an oppotunity to catch up squandered.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: stooges44 on February 14, 2019, 04:47:36 PM
+1

This is similar to a mall giving a big discount to anchor stores to boost the rest of the property. NYC has been lagging in tech for quite some time and this was an oppotunity to catch up squandered.

Amazon is classified as tech?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on February 14, 2019, 04:48:03 PM
+1

This is similar to a mall giving a big discount to anchor stores to boost the rest of the property. NYC has been lagging in tech for quite some time and this was an oppotunity to catch up squandered.
That's actually the central question though. Should governments be operating like businesses or not.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 04:48:42 PM
Amazon is classified as tech?
Or?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on February 14, 2019, 04:49:01 PM
This argument is silliness. Yes, your state should have a competitive tax environment. But lowering rates to lure in a big fish isn't bad policy any more than offering a quantity discount on your product is bad policy. Bigger clients get bigger discounts, especially when they are openly shopping around.

Is that unfair to small business? Perhaps, but that small business isn't going to bring in tens of billions of dollars in tax revenue in one fell swoop.
while you have a point, there's a difference between offering a discount and taxing you because you made money.
The way it works here is
business is growing? pay more, getting better? pay even more (tax the rich), making even more? we will give you a discount to operate in NYC.

all these major tax incentives you hear is from the giant companies, while they scream tax the millionaires, BTW with a million dollars you could buy a condo not a house.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 04:50:24 PM
That's actually the central question though. Should governments be operating like businesses or not.
Governments go down when they stop operating like a business
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 04:52:05 PM
while you have a point, there's a difference between offering a discount and taxing you because you made money.
The way it works here is
business is growing? pay more, getting better? pay even more (tax the rich), making even more? we will give you a discount to operate in NYC.

all these major tax incentives you hear is from the giant companies, while they scream tax the millionaires, BTW with a million dollars you could buy a condo not a house.
It's all about negotiating power. Amazon has it and cities had to decide if they wanted to play that game.
Clearly most cities were willing to.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: stooges44 on February 14, 2019, 04:52:13 PM
Or?

Intel, Microsoft, Apple, AMD, HP, Dell to name a bunch are tech. Amazon.. I don't see how they fit in with those. AWS yes but not Amazon as a whole.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yeshivabucher on February 14, 2019, 04:54:41 PM
This argument is silliness. Yes, your state should have a competitive tax environment. But lowering rates to lure in a big fish isn't bad policy any more than offering a quantity discount on your product is bad policy. Bigger clients get bigger discounts, especially when they are openly shopping around.

Is that unfair to small business? Perhaps, but that small business isn't going to bring in tens of billions of dollars in tax revenue in one fell swoop.
if this was a private businesses  giving incentives thats their own purview but this is a government giving subsides to a businesses  which basically undercuts any competition in the state and uses your tax dollars to do it and if they want to encourage more businesses they shouldn't have such a high tax rate in the first place
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 04:57:02 PM
if this was a private businesses  giving incentives thats their own purview but this is a government giving subsides to a businesses  which basically undercuts any competition in the state and uses your tax dollars to do it and if they want to encourage more businesses they shouldn't have such a high tax rate in the first place
Your tax dollars? It's a rebate of a small percentage of the additional tax dollars that HQ2 would bring in. They were never yours in the first place and now DC or BNA will get them.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 04:57:47 PM
Intel, Microsoft, Apple, AMD, HP, Dell to name a bunch are tech. Amazon.. I don't see how they fit in with those. AWS yes but not Amazon as a whole.
Amazon directly competes with Goggle, Microsoft, Apple, and Netflix between AWS, ads, video on demand, and home assistant..

Not only does Amazon fit with them but they compete and win on many fronts..
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 04:58:24 PM
Governments go down when they stop operating like a business
What does that even mean?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 05:01:14 PM
Your tax dollars? It's a rebate of a small percentage of the additional tax dollars that HQ2 would bring in. They were never yours in the first place and now DC or BNA will get them.
But that's still picking winners and losers, and government should be allowing everyone to compete fairly.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 05:04:19 PM
But that's still picking winners and losers, and government should be allowing everyone to compete fairly.
Why?
Everything else in life is based on negotiations and discounting based on economies of scale. Why would you expect that governments wouldn't compete to land a massive quantity of high paying jobs?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 05:07:52 PM
What does that even mean?
Covering a State budget isn’t a myth, it’s an actual dollar amount they have to cover, local governments need to be creative on ways to sustain a healthy tax base, just like a business needs a healthy customer base.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 05:10:23 PM
Why?
Everything else in life is based on negotiations and discounting based on economies of scale. Why would you expect that governments wouldn't compete to land a massive quantity of high paying jobs?
The government shouldn't be in the business of creating jobs, it should be making sure not to get in the way of those who create jobs. One way to not get in the way of those who create jobs is to not pick winners and losers because they like one industry over another or because it looks good for them when running for re-election.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 05:12:16 PM
The government shouldn't be in the business of creating jobs.
Through competing to land a big fish? Why not?
If your government won't plenty of others will.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 05:13:39 PM
The government shouldn't be in the business of creating jobs, it should be making sure not to get in the way of those who create jobs. One way to not get in the way of those who create jobs is to not pick winners and losers because they like one industry over another or because it looks good for them when running for re-election.
One way of getting in the way of those creating jobs, is to ignore them when they offer a great deal.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 05:13:49 PM
Covering a State budget isn’t a myth, it’s an actual dollar amount they have to cover, local governments need to be creative on ways to sustain a healthy tax base, just like a business needs a healthy customer base.
Of course not, but the reason the Federal Government, NYS, or NYC have trouble covering their budgets is not because they don't have enough revenue - they have plenty, they just spend way too much.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 05:16:08 PM
One way of getting in the way of those creating jobs, is to ignore them when they offer a great deal.
The reason amazon needs a "good deal" to move to NY is because NY is getting in the way of anyone who would create jobs, the solution to that is to get out of everyone's way, not just the big behemoth.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on February 14, 2019, 05:22:37 PM
Intel, Microsoft, Apple, AMD, HP, Dell to name a bunch are tech. Amazon.. I don't see how they fit in with those. AWS yes but not Amazon as a whole.
I also thought so before I noticed that they're much bigger what the random joe thinks amazon is
BTW
dansdeals is hosted on amazons server, Tech?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 05:25:15 PM
The reason amazon needs a "good deal" to move to NY is because NY is getting in the way of anyone who would create jobs, the solution to that is to get out of everyone's way, not just the big behemoth.
Nonsense. Amazon was going to get a deal no matter where it wound up and no matter what that state's policies. Because they're big, because they can, and because it's a worthy investment to land 25K 6 figure jobs.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 05:37:09 PM
Nonsense. Amazon was going to get a deal no matter where it wound up and no matter what that state's policies. Because they're big, because they can, and because it's a worthy investment to land 25K 6 figure jobs.
So you're saying that if NY cut taxes for everyone the way they did for the Amazon deal, then Amazon wouldn't have opened HQ2 in NY without a special deal?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 14, 2019, 05:42:03 PM
So you're saying that if NY cut taxes for everyone the way they did for the Amazon deal, then Amazon wouldn't have opened HQ2 in NY without a special deal?
Mi she'yesh lo manah, rotzeh masayim.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: good sam on February 14, 2019, 05:47:05 PM
Mi she'yesh lo manah, rotzeh masayim.
In NYC מי שיש לו מנה בא אחד ונוטל ממנו
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: zh cohen on February 14, 2019, 06:00:45 PM
In NYC מי שיש לו מנה בא אחד ונוטל ממנו

Mayim Gnuvim yimtaku
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 06:11:21 PM
So why not just give them the $3 billion in incentive? How does $3 billion in incentives effect you, but $30 billion in revenue not.. that’s upside down.
I have no problem with the incentives. I have a problem of who gets to control the extra revenue generated. Existing NYC residents would definitely face an increased cost of living (and burden on infrastructure) with benefits of the added revenue not being felt (or possibly felt in a negative way- advancing a certain agenda).
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 14, 2019, 06:26:21 PM
Mi she'yesh lo manah, rotzeh masayim.
Of course they would try, but if NY would put their foot down and say no special deals for anyone period, while lowering taxes to the point that they did for amazon, amazon would definitely have taken the deal. Clearly what was offered was at least enough to make them want to open in NY.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 06:58:17 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-14/long-island-city-brokers-despair-over-amazon-s-abrupt-reversal?srnd=premium

Poor real estate brokers.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 07:50:48 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-14/long-island-city-brokers-despair-over-amazon-s-abrupt-reversal?srnd=premium

Poor real estate brokers.

These paragraphs sum up the sad reality perfectly:

“Without the boost from Amazon that could have transformed Long Island City into a 24/7 district, Benaim said he thinks it’ll remain just a place for Manhattan commuters to sleep.

“It’s still going to be a bedroom community, and I feel bad for all the local restaurants, all the local mom-and-pop shops who were counting on this,” he said. “They needed this.”

“We literally just threw the baby out with the bath water, Haber said. “You want the Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Bezos coming to our shores and that economic growth that comes with them. We’re not setting up New York for success in the 21st Century. What happened today is a real tragedy.”


These politicians should be sued for malpractice.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 07:55:33 PM
These paragraphs sum up the sad reality perfectly:

“Without the boost from Amazon that could have transformed Long Island City into a 24/7 district, Benaim said he thinks it’ll remain just a place for Manhattan commuters to sleep.

“It’s still going to be a bedroom community, and I feel bad for all the local restaurants, all the local mom-and-pop shops who were counting on this,” he said. “They needed this.”

“We literally just threw the baby out with the bath water, Haber said. “You want the Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Bezos coming to our shores and that economic growth that comes with them. We’re not setting up New York for success in the 21st Century. What happened today is a real tragedy.”


These politicians should be sued for malpractice.
It's not like LIC is a half hour drive from Manhattan (there was actually a time I used to drive to LIC, park there and take the Subway one stop over into Manhattan, rather than spend 45 minutes in a crowded subway). Nothing wrong with it being a bedroom community. It's the same city. I wouldn't want Times Square in my backyard.

If the Amazon move would come with a MAJOR infrastructure upgrade (for example: Subway upgrade, including safe stations where the railway is closed off until the train stops) then it would be something to bemoan. But as long as it's only the additional high paying jobs and tax revenue, without a specific infrastructure or other benefit tied to it, there's nothing to be upset over.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 08:02:50 PM
It's not like LIC is a half hour drive from Manhattan (there was actually a time I used to drive to LIC, park there and take the Subway one stop over into Manhattan, rather than spend 45 minutes in a crowded subway). Nothing wrong with it being a bedroom community. It's the same city. I wouldn't want Times Square in my backyard.
Why is your personal parking needs more important than the hundreds of local struggling mom and pop shops? And how is your personal backyard preferences more important than our city and state budgets?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 08:06:11 PM
Why is your personal parking needs more important than the hundreds of local struggling mom and pop shops? And how is your personal backyard preferences more important than our city and state budgets?
My personal parking needs aren't more important than the local residents. On the contrary. And knowing our politicians, this wouldn't improve the state and local budgets. If you think it would, I have a few bridges to sell you.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 08:14:57 PM
My personal parking needs aren't more important than the local residents. On the contrary. And knowing our politicians, this wouldn't improve the state and local budgets. If you think it would, I have a few bridges to sell you.
I know our politicians as well, but how does knowing them make an increase in tax revenue by (minimum) $27 billion over 25 years in exchange of a one time $3 billion investment a bad thing? I don’t get it.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 08:28:19 PM
I know our politicians as well, but how does knowing them make an increase in tax revenue by (minimum) $27 billion over 25 years in exchange of a one time $3 billion investment a bad thing? I don’t get it.
So you think a deal to increase the size of our government and hand Cuomo and DeBlasio extra revenue is a good thing?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 08:32:50 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/02/14/this-plastics-company-just-got-screwed-by-amazons-pullout/amp/

Another family that loses out.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 08:35:56 PM
So you think a deal to increase the size of our government and hand Cuomo and DeBlasio extra revenue is a good thing?
This is actually the best case scenario of how a government should work, namely, increase in tax revenue without hitting the little guy with higher taxes, it’s called economic growth, expanding the tax base, it’s a good thing, not a bad thing when everybody both the government and the citizen flourish.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
This is actually the best case scenario of how a government should work, namely, increase in tax revenue without hitting the little guy with higher taxes, it’s called economic growth, expanding the tax base, it’s a good thing, not a bad thing when everybody both the government and the citizen flourish.

You know the thing about theory vs practice...
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
You know the thing about theory vs practice...
Economic growth is no theory. It’s successfully practiced all around the globe.

But I’m done for now. See ya
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 14, 2019, 10:56:54 PM
Economic growth is no theory. It’s successfully practiced all around the globe.

But I’m done for now. See ya
You're missing his main point. The extra revenue would definitely have been wasted on frivolities. The average New York resident wouldn't have seen any benefit. Sad, but true.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 11:31:45 PM
You're missing his main point. The extra revenue would definitely have been wasted on frivolities. The average New York resident wouldn't have seen any benefit. Sad, but true.
Untrue, very shortsighted.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 14, 2019, 11:37:45 PM
Untrue, very shortsighted.
Do you live in new York? Because I think most frum new York Jews (not living in a bubble) would agree with exgingi
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: gubevo18 on February 14, 2019, 11:39:01 PM
Nonsense. Amazon was going to get a deal no matter where it wound up and no matter what that state's policies. Because they're big, because they can, and because it's a worthy investment to land 25K 6 figure jobs.
No way it would be 25k 6 figure jobs. I could be wrong but I believe I read the average salary will be 150k. That could mean a whole lot of people making starting salaries for every executive stationed in NYC.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 14, 2019, 11:45:36 PM
No way it would be 25k 6 figure jobs. I could be wrong but I believe I read the average salary will be 150k. That could mean a whole lot of people making starting salaries for every executive stationed in NYC.
Either way, pretty solid job creation opportunity
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 11:45:58 PM
Economic growth is no theory. It’s successfully practiced all around the globe.

But I’m done for now. See ya
True. Government spending is definitely part of the GDP formula. I guess that is the kind of growth you would like to see.

And BTW, I am sure you know what we call sudden uncontrolled cell growth.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 14, 2019, 11:48:01 PM
No way it would be 25k 6 figure jobs. I could be wrong but I believe I read the average salary will be 150k. That could mean a whole lot of people making starting salaries for every executive stationed in NYC.
Let’s count them.

150,000

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=6%20figures
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 11:48:03 PM
True. Government spending is definitely part of the GDP formula. I guess that is the kind of growth you would like to see.

And BTW, I am sure you know what we call sudden uncontrolled cell growth.
Now we’re entering Purim territory.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 14, 2019, 11:49:35 PM
Do you live in new York? Because I think most frum new York Jews (not living in a bubble) would agree with exgingi
I do live in NY, and I am a frum Jew, not sure about the bubble part, and I actually know people in the real estate and construction business who were already negatively impacted by today’s decision.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: gubevo18 on February 14, 2019, 11:55:09 PM
Let’s count them.

150,000

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=6%20figures
Huh?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 12:00:54 AM
I do live in NY, and I am a frum Jew, not sure about the bubble part, and I actually know people in the real estate and construction business who were already negatively impacted by today’s decision.
I'm not disagreeing that it's a lost opportunity for New Yorkers looking for jobs and construction companies etc. I'm talking about extra tax revenue which would have been wasted on nonsense instead of alleviating the current financial burden on taxpayers which is continually increasing. It's not like they would have used the money for the city's aging infrastructure. They would've wasted it on something else and raised taxes again to cover new costs that would inevitably come from new programs.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: EJB on February 15, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Either way, pretty solid job creation opportunity

Especially since amazons average salary is below 40k, iirc. These are legitimately high paying job even if, say, half of them are below 100k
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 12:10:09 AM
It's not like they would have used the money for the city's aging infrastructure. They would've wasted it on something else and raised taxes again to cover new costs that would inevitably come from new programs.

Or even if they would use its (gasp) to shore up the existing pension obligations (while making sure not to create new unsustainable pension obligations). But I put it beyond our politicians to take such a responsible move.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 15, 2019, 12:23:31 AM
I'm not disagreeing that it's a lost opportunity for New Yorkers looking for jobs and construction companies etc. I'm talking about extra tax revenue which would have been wasted on nonsense instead of alleviating the current financial burden on taxpayers which is continually increasing. It's not like they would have used the money for the city's aging infrastructure. They would've wasted it on something else and raised taxes again to cover new costs that would inevitably come from new programs.
That’s a twisted concern.
Even the king of small government Ronald Reagan bragged about how lowering taxes, results in a bigger tax base and therefore more tax revenue, he believed in shrinking and abolishing useless spending as well, but broadening a tax base is a good thing, our useless politicians will create new spending programs with or without Amazon, we might as well have new tax revenue to pay for it, and enjoy our 25k new good paying jobs and all the benefits that come with it.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 08:07:27 AM
That’s a twisted concern.
Even the king of small government Ronald Reagan bragged about how lowering taxes, results in a bigger tax base and therefore more tax revenue, he believed in shrinking and abolishing useless spending as well, but broadening a tax base is a good thing, our useless politicians will create new spending programs with or without Amazon, we might as well have new tax revenue to pay for it, and enjoy our 25k new good paying jobs and all the benefits that come with it.
As was mentioned, more tax revenue is theoretically a good thing, and in some places, good in practice too. All depends what the politicians will do with it. Knowing NY politicians, I don't need to elaborate again. And I don't think it's a twisted concern, it's being pragmatic.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 08:12:11 AM
And I don't think it's a twisted concern, it's being pragmatic.
Idealist vs pragmatic is usually correlated to age/life experience.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 08:15:30 AM
Idealist vs pragmatic is usually correlated to age/life experience.
Or good old fashioned cynicism
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Moshe123 on February 15, 2019, 08:21:42 AM
I couldn't care less about the government tax base expanding, but 25k high-paying jobs was going to be a shot in the arm to the NYC hemish economy which is very much construction and real estate based. I work in construction and this would have benefitted all of us. It was going to create a whole new economy and likely wouldn't have ended with just Amazon.

Liberals are disgusting jealous and selfish people. They can't stand to see people succeed, while they remain behind. They eat their own. Almost all the direct jobs were going to liberals. Just look at Seattle.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: stooges44 on February 15, 2019, 09:15:47 AM
I couldn't care less about the government tax base expanding, but 25k high-paying jobs was going to be a shot in the arm to the NYC hemish economy which is very much construction and real estate based. I work in construction and this would have benefitted all of us. It was going to create a whole new economy and likely wouldn't have ended with just Amazon.

Liberals are disgusting jealous and selfish people. They can't stand to see people succeed, while they remain behind. They eat their own. Almost all the direct jobs were going to liberals. Just look at Seattle.

And think of all the chol hamoed trips we could've had touring the place  :'(
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 09:26:33 AM
Idealist vs pragmatic is usually correlated to age/life experience.

 "Donkeys live a long time. None of you has ever seen a dead donkey"

Or good old fashioned cynicism

 "Windmill or no windmill, he said, life would go on as it had always gone on– that is, badly."
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 15, 2019, 09:31:22 AM
Especially since amazons average salary is below 40k, iirc. These are legitimately high paying job even if, say, half of them are below 100k

There is a huge dichotomy between white and blue collar jobs - the 40k jobs average is what happens when you combine the salaries of hourly warehouse workers in low-cost areas, with office workers in bigger cities. If you have 10 warehouse workers making 30k in West virginia and one programmer making 140 in SF, that's a 40k average. These jobs would primarily be the latter.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 09:59:01 AM
I know our politicians as well, but how does knowing them make an increase in tax revenue by (minimum) $27 billion over 25 years in exchange of a one time $3 billion investment a bad thing? I don’t get it.
You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 15, 2019, 10:04:12 AM
My own $0.02 on the whole thing:

- I thought that the city offered too much in incentives to Amazon, and that there was a little too much uncertainty - i.e. 25K jobs over 10 years - does that mean approx 2500 new jobs per year? or 1000 jobs in year one and 24000 in year 9? (I know that' an extreme example, but the ramp up has tax, and generated revenue implications).

- This is a ploy to stoke the flames of Cuomo's presidential aspirations. He's already facing a state that has some of the highest taxes in the country, and stagnating population growth. He just admitted this week that people are leaving NY for FL to save on taxes (he blamed Trump's Property tax deduction cap, of course). If he gets Amazon to move, job growth, that's one feather in his cap. Of course, in 3 years, infrastructure will be taxed, so he'll drum up an opportunity to tax NYers for the upgrades.

- In case you didn't know - most of the major tech companies already have offices in NY - Google has a few thousand employees, Facebook has offices here - and guess what so does Amazon - Amazon Video has offices and development teams in NYC. (Audible has offices in Newark) - Even if they did get incentives to move in, they weren't big enough to warrant news articles.


I have a feeling Amazon will still grow in NYC/NY Metro, just not at the rate that they previously wanted.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on February 15, 2019, 10:11:28 AM
My own $0.02 on the whole thing:

- I thought that the city offered too much in incentives to Amazon, and that there was a little too much uncertainty - i.e. 25K jobs over 10 years - does that mean approx 2500 new jobs per year? or 1000 jobs in year one and 24000 in year 9? (I know that' an extreme example, but the ramp up has tax, and generated revenue implications).

- This is a ploy to stoke the flames of Cuomo's presidential aspirations. He's already facing a state that has some of the highest taxes in the country, and stagnating population growth. He just admitted this week that people are leaving NY for FL to save on taxes (he blamed Trump's Property tax deduction cap, of course). If he gets Amazon to move, job growth, that's one feather in his cap. Of course, in 3 years, infrastructure will be taxed, so he'll drum up an opportunity to tax NYers for the upgrades.

- In case you didn't know - most of the major tech companies already have offices in NY - Google has a few thousand employees, Facebook has offices here - and guess what so does Amazon - Amazon Video has offices and development teams in NYC. (Audible has offices in Newark) - Even if they did get incentives to move in, they weren't big enough to warrant news articles.


I have a feeling Amazon will still grow in NYC/NY Metro, just not at the rate that they previously wanted.
+1. They also have some presence for the AWS business - I have a friend that works there. I also don't buy the argument that Amazon setting up shop here would transform the tech sector in NYC. It's already quite big, and it will never ever rise to the level of Silicon Valley. Google is expanding here as well, without the incentives. If big tech brings other tech, then it's already happening, with or without Amazon.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 15, 2019, 10:12:12 AM
Amazon had to guarantee those jobs, or else the incentives wouldn't be given.
Title: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 15, 2019, 10:24:27 AM
You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?
First of all
Amazon had to guarantee those jobs, or else the incentives wouldn't be given.
Also, many independent analysts came to the same conclusion that the estimate Amazon gave was actually pretty conservative, I remember reading an article from Andrew Ross Sorkin who’s as left as they come and is generally against incentives, but he’s fair and data driven, agreeing that this deal is a no brainer for the City.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 10:39:46 AM
First of allAlso, many independent analysts came to the same conclusion that the estimate Amazon gave was actually pretty conservative, I remember reading an article from Andrew Ross Sorkin who’s as left as they come and is generally against incentives, but he’s fair and data driven, agreeing that this deal is a no brainer for the City.
I was referring to the tax revenue
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 15, 2019, 10:40:20 AM
I was referring to the tax revenue
#metoo
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 10:41:45 AM
#metoo
So I'll repeat myself, when was the last time these revenue estimates were remotely accurate?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Ephraimh on February 15, 2019, 10:45:16 AM
So I'll repeat myself, when was the last time these revenue estimates were remotely accurate?
I think we’re going around in circles..
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 10:48:08 AM
You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?

when was the last time they were extremely overestimated?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 10:50:09 AM
@avromie7 it sounds like your argument is that really NY should go full hard right and since they are not they should just stay hard left and do nothing.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 10:50:40 AM
You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?
Or costs underestimated.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 10:52:41 AM
@avromie7 it sounds like your argument is that really NY should go full hard right and since they are not they should just stay hard left and do nothing.
My argument is they shouldn't be picking winners and losers. There are many other businesses who would bring plenty of jobs if they were offered the same incentives, why does amazon get paid off and no one else does.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 10:53:33 AM
I couldn't care less about the government tax base expanding, but 25k high-paying jobs was going to be a shot in the arm to the NYC hemish economy which is very much construction and real estate based. I work in construction and this would have benefitted all of us. It was going to create a whole new economy and likely wouldn't have ended with just Amazon.
I'll get back to you with a photo as soon as I have a chance.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 10:55:35 AM
Does  it really make sense that Amazon backed out because of phony leftist politicians public harassment? They talk out of both sides of their mouth all the time. If it really was worth it for Amazon im pretty sure they would've stayed the course.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
My argument is they shouldn't be picking winners and losers. There are many other businesses who would bring plenty of jobs if they were offered the same incentives, why does amazon get paid off and no one else does.
As mentioned before, can anyone else bring (high paying) jobs in the same numbers?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 10:59:54 AM
As mentioned before, can anyone else bring (high paying) jobs in the same numbers?
There's no reason they need to all be from the same business, quite the contrary, if they were all from different businesses it would create more competition which would be even better for the employees.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 11:01:38 AM
My argument is they shouldn't be picking winners and losers. There are many other businesses who would bring plenty of jobs if they were offered the same incentives, why does amazon get paid off and no one else does.
because
Amazon had to guarantee those jobs, or else the incentives wouldn't be given.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 15, 2019, 11:02:01 AM
Does  it really make sense that Amazon backed out because of phony leftist politicians public harassment? They talk out of both sides of their mouth all the time. If it really was worth it for Amazon im pretty sure they would've stayed the course.
Why would you want to build in a place where the politicians will be out to get you when you could build in a place where they're welcoming you with open arms?

Smart move by Amazon. They likely would have been shafted with special taxes targeted at them as revenge so that the politicians could score more points.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 11:04:53 AM
There's no reason they need to all be from the same business, quite the contrary, if they were all from different businesses it would create more competition which would be even better for the employees.
Big governments snowball. Every regulation added requires more to even out the playing field. Best thing for business would be to create a business friendly environment for all, but since they won't, at least at least help one or two big ones. Crony capitalist socialism.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 11:05:54 AM
Does  it really make sense that Amazon backed out because of phony leftist politicians public harassment? They talk out of both sides of their mouth all the time. If it really was worth it for Amazon im pretty sure they would've stayed the course.
Bezos, being a community property state resident, proved that there are things he cares about more than money.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 11:06:23 AM
Why would you want to build in a place where the politicians will be out to get you when you could build in a place where they're welcoming you with open arms?

Smart move by Amazon. They likely would have been shafted with special taxes targeted at them as revenge so that the politicians could score more points.
I hear the tzad, butnot convinced. I wouldn't be surprised if they just changed their mind because of internal reasons
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 11:07:11 AM
There's no reason they need to all be from the same business, quite the contrary, if they were all from different businesses it would create more competition which would be even better for the employees.
And less concentration and exposure to a single business.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 15, 2019, 11:10:12 AM
There's no reason they need to all be from the same business, quite the contrary, if they were all from different businesses it would create more competition which would be even better for the employees.
And less concentration and exposure to a single business.
Porque no los dos?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yitzgar on February 15, 2019, 11:10:41 AM
There's no reason they need to all be from the same business, quite the contrary, if they were all from different businesses it would create more competition which would be even better for the employees.
True, but since they won't do anything to make the state/city more business friendly, it is a loss for those who would've gained from this
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 11:11:04 AM
My argument is they shouldn't be picking winners and losers.
You keep repeating this line over and over again but it makes no sense here. Amazon is already the winner over all of the business that aren't .001% of its size. It is because they are already a winner that they are able to negotiate such deals.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 11:11:57 AM
And less concentration and exposure to a single business.
And not going to happen
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 15, 2019, 11:12:17 AM
Porque no los dos?
Let me see them create a business development zone. I've mentioned something above about uncontrolled, uneven cell growth.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 11:25:58 AM
Porque no los dos?
Sure
You keep repeating this line over and over again but it makes no sense here. Amazon is already the winner over all of the business that aren't .001% of its size. It is because they are already a winner that they are able to negotiate such deals.
It still makes sense here, the job of government is to allow all businesses to flourish equally, regardless of size they shouldn't get special bribes just because it makes good politics.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: skyguy918 on February 15, 2019, 11:27:00 AM
https://nypost.com/2019/02/14/this-is-the-man-who-delivered-the-death-blow-to-amazon-deal/
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 15, 2019, 01:07:15 PM
...I also don't buy the argument that Amazon setting up shop here would transform the tech sector in NYC. It's already quite big, and it will never ever rise to the level of Silicon Valley. Google is expanding here as well, without the incentives. If big tech brings other tech, then it's already happening, with or without Amazon.

I don't know about that - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-27/new-york-will-never-be-silicon-valley-and-it-s-good-with-that - It's getting close in terms of dollars raised, and while SF might have some great university talent coming out of Stanford / Cal - NY has no shortage of engineering schools Cooper Union, Columbia, NYU Tandon, CCNY and others. In addition to a lot of big tech presence, there are also dozens of incubators and startups. For example, there is an Incubator for NYC-based startups with Israeli Founders.

People forget that Bloomberg gave money to build NYC Tech on Roosevelt Island - which is connected to LIC - NYC Tech has a joint Cornell/Technion engineering graduate school and incubator.

So really the biggest incentive to NYC is primary and secondary jobs, and income tax. Of those 25K people - how many of their spouses would now work/live in NY? (You can argue that not all 25K would live in NY, but they'd still be paying NY income taxes).

Still, the person who benefits most is Cuomo - just my $0.02


Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 15, 2019, 01:09:26 PM
Amazon had to guarantee those jobs, or else the incentives wouldn't be given.

I would imagine that was the case, but I don't believe that a timeline was publicized.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 15, 2019, 01:11:28 PM
Why would you want to build in a place where the politicians will be out to get you when you could build in a place where they're welcoming you with open arms?

Smart move by Amazon. They likely would have been shafted with special taxes targeted at them as revenge so that the politicians could score more points.

I had read somewhere that the unions got involved as well and that was part of Amazon's decision's to back out.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Dan on February 15, 2019, 01:18:02 PM
I would imagine that was the case, but I don't believe that a timeline was publicized.
They would never sign a deal without a timeline. How would that be enforceable?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: aygart on February 15, 2019, 01:27:32 PM
I had read somewhere that the unions got involved as well and that was part of Amazon's decision's to back out.
So @avromie7 is siding with the unions?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: avromie7 on February 15, 2019, 01:35:15 PM
They would never sign a deal without a timeline. How would that be enforceable?
Meh, I wouldn't put it past government to do something stupid like that.
So @avromie7 is siding with the unions?
That is technically true, but for completely different reasons.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: zh cohen on February 17, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
https://therealdeal.com/2019/02/15/lichtenstein-on-amazon-pullout-worst-day-for-nyc-since-9-11/
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: good sam on February 17, 2019, 03:43:13 PM
I heard a sound byte from AOC today saying that the $3B should instead be invested into the community.

Does she really not know what she's saying or is it just a show?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 17, 2019, 03:46:32 PM
I heard a sound byte from AOC today saying that the $3B should instead be invested into the community.

Does she really not know what she's saying or is it just a show?

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=5531.msg2009412#msg2009412
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on February 17, 2019, 03:48:38 PM
I heard a sound byte from AOC today saying that the $3B should instead be invested into the community.

Does she really not know what she's saying or is it just a show?

I wonder how much more these guys  (http://us.aoc.com/en/)will tolerate before they feel compelled to change their brand name.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: gingyguy on February 17, 2019, 04:05:59 PM
I wonder how much more these guys  (http://us.aoc.com/en/)will tolerate before they feel compelled to change their brand name.
lol
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: zh cohen on February 17, 2019, 07:13:02 PM
https://therealdeal.com/2019/02/15/lichtenstein-on-amazon-pullout-worst-day-for-nyc-since-9-11/

This is the same guy as this - http://podcast.headlinesbook.com. He doesn't look anything like he sounds...
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: EJB on February 18, 2019, 12:06:41 PM
There is a huge dichotomy between white and blue collar jobs - the 40k jobs average is what happens when you combine the salaries of hourly warehouse workers in low-cost areas, with office workers in bigger cities. If you have 10 warehouse workers making 30k in West virginia and one programmer making 140 in SF, that's a 40k average. These jobs would primarily be the latter.
That’s my point. These are high paying jobs for amazon, where the majority of employees work in warehouses and similar sort of roles.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 19, 2019, 08:52:10 AM
They would never sign a deal without a timeline. How would that be enforceable?

Agreed - but I didn't see it publicized by the city or amazon - it was all very vague - wouldn't you think both sides would want transparency?
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on February 19, 2019, 09:43:47 AM
1. I don't think anybody here is arguing that the tax breaks for amazon were inherently bad, rather the argument is whether it's ok that the tax breaks are given only to select companies rather than across the board. Personally I think they should be making a better business friendly environment over all, I think it's better to have 1,000 companies create 25 jobs each than to have one company create 25,000 jobs.
I think the fact that NY isn't covering it's budget because everyone with money is fleeing to to lower tax states should be a much bigger story than Amazon.

2. There's a separate argument of whether having an Amazon move into and transform a neighborhood/city is a good thing or a bad thing.
right now, at least for this specific case of LIC, (smaller cities are probably different)) I'm leaning towards it being bad for the little guy. It seems to me that anyone who owns property in the area (+ ripple effect on surrounding areas) and certain businesses that'll benefit from the increased foot traffic / gentrification will make out really well. Everyone else will be hurt by the increased rents & strain on public infrastructure etc.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: yesitsme on February 19, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
and Cuomo is crying that the wealthy are leaving (and the homeless are coming)
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: Yonah on February 19, 2019, 10:12:54 AM
Another take - https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/theres-a-single-reason-amazon-backed-out-of-new-york-we-all-should-have-seen-it-coming.html
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: jj1000 on February 19, 2019, 10:22:15 AM
Another take - https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/theres-a-single-reason-amazon-backed-out-of-new-york-we-all-should-have-seen-it-coming.html
Absolutely no substance to this article at all. No idea how it got published on a real news site. 
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: ExGingi on March 10, 2019, 07:09:48 PM
https://ritholtz.com/2019/03/hudson-yards-versus-amazon-hq2/

Quote
Consider the sorts of deal Amazon had negotiated:

New York State:
• $1.525 billion from NYS should Amazon hire 25,000 people over the next decade, at an average salary of $150,000 and occupy at least 4 million square feet of space.
• $1.7 billion if Amazon gets to 40,000 jobs by 2032.
• $1.2 billion from the state’s Excelsior Jobs Program or $48,000 per job.
• Up to $505 million in the form of cash grants dispersed over 10 to 15 years, depending upon whether Amazon hits its job goals.
• The State of New York will override local regulations on the lot currently zoned for manufacturing space, replacing the city’s extensive land use review process.

New York City:

• Business income-tax credits worth $897 million (“as-of-right” offered to companies that relocate to NYC from elsewhere)
• Property-tax break worth $386 million over 25 years
• Offered other tax breaks traditionally aimed at very poor neighborhoods.

Imagine if the people who created the HQ2 deal instead tried to do something similar to the unopposed Hudson Yard deal:

Amazon HQ2 Smart Project
• Create a waterfront esplanade and park;
• Upgrade the subway lines and stations near LIC;
• Replace roads, bridges and sidewalks;
• Build new schools and day care facilities;
• Create a new East River ferry service running from LIC to Manhattan.

…and more.
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: whYME on March 10, 2019, 07:38:25 PM
https://ritholtz.com/2019/03/hudson-yards-versus-amazon-hq2/ (https://ritholtz.com/2019/03/hudson-yards-versus-amazon-hq2/)

He ends off
Quote
If these three are as smart as they are believed to be, they could still revisit this and make it right. Otherwise, welcome to your lasting legacies, the final word in your obits.
So basically he's saying there's no hope?
(I mean I don't know how smart he thinks DeBlasio is)
Title: Re: Amazon HQ2
Post by: stooges44 on May 28, 2019, 02:51:33 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/05/27/amazon-is-reportedly-eyeing-office-space-on-manhattans-west-side/